The Big Picture - The 2024 Movie Auction. Plus: Jake Johnson!
Episode Date: January 16, 2024Sean, Amanda, and Chris gather to auction draft the movies they’re most excited for in 2024, including both Zendaya vehicles ‘Dune Part 2’ and ‘Challengers,’ Bong Joon-ho’s ‘Mickey 17,�...� Francis Ford Coppola’s ‘Megalopolis,’ and more (1:00). Then, Sean is joined by first-time feature director Jake Johnson to talk about his movie ‘Self Reliance’ (1:17:00) and how he views it as fitting in the larger arc of his career on and off the screen. Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guests: Chris Ryan and Jake Johnson Senior Producer: Bobby Wagner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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I'm Sean Fennessey.
I'm Amanda Dobbins.
And this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about auctioning.
CR is here.
We will be conducting our first movie auction of the year today.
Later in the show, an old pal of CR's. That's mine.
Jake Johnson.
Beloved actor and first-time solo feature director.
He's got a new movie called Self-Reliance that is available on Hulu right now.
Great chat with Jake.
He's just one of the goats.
He did greet Chris very warmly.
He did.
And then was like, why weren't you here?
Yeah.
Is the Big Pick, is the watch the Big Pick's farm system?
Like, are we the feeder club for you guys?
Or do you just so badly want to be part of the watch?
It's kind of like a Cleveland Browns moving to Baltimore situation
where we're the Ravens now and we're just good every year.
That's kind of what we're like.
And we're only good like once or twice a year.
Yeah, every once in a while you get a Miles Garrett and you guys are good.
But, you know, you had a nice run.
We did.
It's great.
We did.
Jake greeted you warmly because I shared with him that we actually talked to Jake
on the big picture six years ago when we went to South by Southwest when he made a movie called
Win It All with Joe Swanberg. And so we were chatting about that a bit. Self-reliance is fun.
It's an interesting chat with him. I can't wait to check it out. We are going to auction today.
We did a Most Anticipated Movies of the Year episode a couple of weeks ago. And so some of the titles you heard about there will be mentioned. Chris gave me a little sneak
preview of some movies he's super interested in this year. I would say none of those movies
were on our list. So this could be an interesting podcast. Can I share the two texts that I received
from Chris Ryan last night? Absolutely. Chris, is this okay? Yes. You give your approval? It's fine. Number one,
have you gotten into
the tinned fish
at Trader Joe's?
I'll be as candid
as you want me to be right now.
Yeah.
I'll tell you something.
I find middle-aged women
making five-ingredient
Trader Joe's meals
on Instagram
kind of erotic.
Talk me through it.
It's just like
I find it incredibly soothing
and when they're like,
look at my crazy Trader Joe's haul.
I'm going to make gyoza.
And it's just like, God, this is soothing, you know?
And also approachable because I feel like I could do that too.
Have you made any efforts to create those meals?
No.
What was the tinned fish recipe in question?
They were just making toasts.
Oh, yeah, sure.
I said to you, I've only really done the salmon and the tuna.
I haven't branched out.
But, you know, if you want to send me a reel, I watch all the reels that you send me.
Thank you.
I want you to know that.
I haven't really broached this with Sean.
I send Zach reels sometimes, but I haven't started sending reels.
That is actually…
Are you really into reels right now?
Yeah.
He's hugely into reels.
And it is…
I know when he sent Zach reels because suddenly, like, weird sounds are coming from Zach's phone and he's cackling for like 20 minutes straight. Is reels having success? No, I, I'm doing it as
Twitter method. Oh, as Twitter method. So if I'm watching something that I just feel compelled,
join Amanda and I on threads. Yeah. We're doing very well. Did you know I'm posting on threads
now? What? Yeah. Listen, I'm sorry. You cannot be the king of reels
and then make that face.
When did this happen?
It was this week.
Yeah.
Oh, okay.
So this is new, late breaking.
This isn't like you guys have been like thread guides.
I started posting on threads last week,
just posting links to the show.
And I was like,
it seems like people are migrating there.
Twitter is a fucking cesspool.
Exactly.
I mean, it is awful now.
Basically, and then I was like,
oh, this seems fun.
Really, I have a lot of women
who look suspiciously alike
who are pitting heart
on Rewatchables' pots.
Yes, you certainly do.
They're all named Kyra.
Yeah, and they all love tinned fish.
They're from Ukraine.
So Threads is a good place.
Reels is a good place.
I'm just blogging on Threads just blogging wait what was the other text
what are you talking about on threads uh well i post podcasts and then also books i read and
other things i like i linked to my car her pants oh you didn't see them you didn't see me yesterday
but i was wearing new pants uh that i liked and i recommended those recommended some literature
you know is it a one-way street or are you engaging with people
great question it's at this point just because the number of followers it's sort of a one-way
street not everyone is there yet um and i haven't been able to bring myself to do that thing where
i post on stories that like follow me on threads like i can't be okay you know this has to be
organic this is that yeah um but. Yeah. But it's like
blogging is back.
I'm having a great time.
Bobby has been posting
on Peach recently,
which has been going
very well too.
I don't even know
what that is.
Really?
Yeah, really.
Wow, Gen Z.
Gen Z right there.
You don't know.
My preferred social media
platform right now
is the comment section
in YouTube videos
from Jon Bernthal's
Real Ones pod.
So I've been very active
in a couple of debates happening in the Sean Penn episode.
Yep.
Have you been sharing your experience with law enforcement?
El Chapo, journalistic ethics, Shia LaBeouf's theater career, like a bunch of different
conversations are happening.
What's it going to take for us to get Sean Penn and John Bernthal to come in here and
draft with us?
Well, okay.
So, would you be cool if Sean Penn was like, hey, I'd love to do the 2002 draft, but I am going to chain smoke American spirits indoors the entire time.
I'm fine with it.
Okay.
Amanda, are you okay with it?
I mean, I would like notice just to wear clothing that…
You're going to burn afterwards?
Well, or that I'll carry with me.
We should all wear v set of shotguns.
As the audio guy,
I'm looking at the smoke detector
that's right above us.
You'd make it about five minutes
before it would ruin the sound.
He's in the Bernthal pod.
He's wearing jeans and a black t-shirt,
barefoot,
and is sitting in front of a
snake eating itself,
the don't tread on me kind of symbol,
and a Ukraine flag,
and an American flag and it smokes
american spirits the whole time how many american flags you have in your home
just be honest um i i think i have three yeah when you were just doing that math was it you
were like i don't want to offend my maga bros no i more just thinking I was like which ones did I buy the last time I went to Monticello
you know
I can think of Chuck
let's talk about
hold on
second text
oh second text
the second text was
do you feel like
there are not very many
Oscar supporters
well you have to explain
the rules for this
but yes
for next year
for this year
I completely agree
which is
which is a segue
into
this auction
and the new
and the new rules well let's recap 23
first because because 23 i think is interesting because 23 that was a really good segue that you
just didn't let me do you want me to do the new rules first just just to just to serve the segue
it followed because that was what chris was talking about you know that with the auction
and in general well here's okay so i i came up with some new uh concepts for the auction. And in general... Well, here's...
Okay, so I came up with some new concepts for the auction this year.
Because frankly, the auction, it's impossible to know how someone can win.
When we do one of the...
Like, you can vote on it on Twitter, but the movies are not out yet.
So we're just voting on like the hype meter, I guess, for whatever is going to come soon.
Even when you vote on a regular draft, it doesn't mean anything.
But even with the auction,
it's even less meaningful.
So I wanted to put some long-term parameters around it.
So when we look back a year from now,
like we are about to with our 2023 slate,
we can say, okay, well,
this person checked the most boxes
and has the best slate ultimately.
And it also, I think,
will give us some guardrails
in terms of not just like wildly trying to
draft something we
know is not coming
out because that's
another mistake we've
made.
Right.
So not looking at
anyone in particular
sitting next to me.
It was not my fault.
That was a strike.
Okay.
We're going to get
into that.
We will briefly get
into it.
If no one has ever
listened to an auction
draft before, there
are some core rules
which is that each
bidder, that is Amanda,
Chris, and myself, get $1,000 to bid on a slate of films. Each film on our slate must have a 2024 release
date or an almost certain expectation of release in this calendar year. We all get five movies.
We have to get five movies. You can't run out of money before getting that fifth movie.
Bidders open with each new title and we move into snake fashion. You have 30 seconds to make a new
bid. Do we still do 30 seconds, Bob?
What do we do?
I just kind of let you guys roll.
I call it 40 seconds.
But this is the first time we've done it
with Bobby in studio.
Never been here with Bob.
This is true.
There's also been some truly joker-fied auctions
where we're like literally vamping for 45 seconds
and at the very last second are like,
I bid $2 extra.
You know what I mean?
I think in some ways
that's entertaining
and in some ways it's awful.
I realize I'm the number one culprit
so I'm trying to have
some self-knowledge about this.
2024.
He also doesn't want me
to bring up my discussion topics
that I've been saving
literally for this auction.
I don't know what
any of those things are.
Movies that were previously auctioned
but did not get released
are now back in the pool
except, what is the rule?
That for $100,
you can lock and hold it?
Yeah, you can pay
a $100 surcharge
to keep it.
So, do you pay
the amount that you bid
for it last year
plus $100?
New rules.
We got to have some goals.
So, I'm adding
what I'm calling
category triggers
to see if we can
actually determine a winner
and elevate the drama to some extent.
Here they are.
And if you guys don't like them
or you want to change them, let's talk it out.
At least two of your films must gross
$100 million domestically.
I'm fine with that.
At least one-
$100 million.
$100 million.
But two movies have to-
Two of those movies that you pick have to-
They must or then what happens?
Well, then that's one trigger
that you won't qualify for to win.
So the person who has the most triggers would win.
Okay.
Are you following?
Yeah.
Sort of.
Okay.
The second new trigger is at least one film
must receive at least two Oscar nominations.
Okay.
Next trigger.
At least one of your films
must hit an 85 Metascore on Metacritic.
Only 13 films released in the United States did that in 2023.
I would like to change this.
I have to pull it up.
I would like to draft three movies that get more than 80% audience meter on Rotten Tomatoes.
Considered and rejected.
Here are the movies that were released that received at least an 85 Metascore.
Our Body, the documentary.
Past Lives.
Men Use Placiers, the Wiseman film.
Did that come out?
Oh, yeah.
It did come out.
The Boy and the Heron.
The Zone of Interest.
Killers of the Flower Moon.
Oppenheimer.
All of Us Strangers.
All Dirt Roads Taste of Salt.
Poor Things.
Oh, there's more.
I've got the number wrong.
Okay, keep reading.
Maybe I'm in 23.
Poor Things, Fallen Leaves, Renaissance, Anatomy of a Fall, Spider-Verse 2,
Orlando, My Political Autobiography, The Delinquents, May-December,
and The Disappearance of Cher Height.
That's it.
Looks like it's about 19.
I haven't heard of several of those films.
Well, you have heard of a bunch.
And many of them will be nominated
for Academy Awards as well.
So there's some crossover there.
So we need $200 million.
Two films that will gross $100 million domestically.
We need one film with two Oscar nominations.
We need one 85 Metascore on Metacritic.
And this is the hardest part.
No more than one sequel on your slate.
I don't know about this.
I don't know about this one.
I think you should be able to get two sequels.
Okay.
Given what we know is coming out,
I think that it's really difficult to do
just one sequel.
Do you want to do two sequels?
Sure.
No more than two sequels
will be the new rule.
Because there's some sequels
that could get
nominated for Oscars.
That's right.
Yeah.
I'm excited about that one.
See, that's you
trying to throw the needle.
Now, here's the thing.
You could only get
two of these
and Amanda and I
could only get one of them
and you would win.
Okay.
You know what I mean?
You don't have to get all of them to qualify to win.
Oh, I see what you're saying.
But it gives us shape in the competition.
Okay.
So whoever has the most triggers.
I'm fine with all your other rules other than the sequels one.
I think the sequels one is a little punitive.
But if I'm voted down, that's fine.
It is also tough because the 2024 slate is interesting.
And it's basically all sequels and then movies that we're not really sure about.
That's true.
This is part of the challenge of the game.
You know, I was pointing that out, so I don't need you to make that look at me like you are the master designer of the auction.
One, I am.
Thank you for saying so
two uh i think the problem with this game is that it's too open so it's like there are there's
enough for everyone in a way that makes it not fun like what you need is like everybody wants
the same thing and last year was easier because it was like killers of the thorn everyone wanted
that movie there that was a no-brainer got it uh i guess you got i can't even remember who got it
why don't why don't we recap our list then,
just so people can get a sense.
We do two of these a year.
We do one in January.
We do one in July.
And we're taking the whole slate into consideration
at the end of the year.
So if you want to take two sequels now,
you can.
Okay.
But then you can't take one in the next auction.
Okay.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, sure.
So then you'll have 10 films total on your slate for 2023.
I'll read my slate first from last year. Mission Impossible Dead Reckoning Part 1, $355. Oppenheimer,
$325. Air, $178. Ferrari, $54. Spider-Man Across the Spider-Verse, $23. And then the part two,
I got Hitman, which was not released this year, for $175.
The Holdovers for $185.
The Creator for $300, lol.
The Iron Claw for $311.
And How Do You Live, aka The Boy and the Heron, for $1.
So only one of my- Good for you, Mark.
Only one of my movies did not come out last year.
Amanda, you want to read your list?
Sure.
I got Killers of
the Flower Moon for $640, worth every penny. I got Barbie for $307, also worth every penny in
my opinion. I got Napoleon for $38, frankly a bargain. Leave the World Behind for $1, which
was a great deal. And Blitz, the Steve McQueen film that was not released. So that was $11 and maybe I'll hold
on to it. I got The Zone of Interest for $160. I got Priscilla for $727 because Sean was being a
real prick, but it worked out. I got Strangers, which I guess is all of us strangers, which
is incredible for $20. I got Passages for $20.
Also incredible.
And I got May December
for $73.
Thank you so much, Christopher.
Nice job.
Thank you.
All right.
I got Maestro
for $500.
Wait, did you see Maestro?
Yeah.
Did we talk about it
on the pod?
No.
What'd you think?
I thought it was pretty good.
I thought
I watched it with my mom
and I watched it on a small television.
Just as Bradley Cooper intended.
All that effort.
Just as Lydia Tarr watched Leonard Bernstein growing up
on her small TV.
I think that I compensated for not respecting
the product itself and its intended viewing experience.
I think I compensated for it by watching
every single YouTube video of Bradley Cooper
on this promotional run. You are the expert. intended viewing experience. I think I compensated for it by watching every single YouTube video of Bradley Cooper on
this promotional run.
You really, you are the expert.
I am, I am like the Robert Caro of Bradley Cooper crying in front of people on camera.
Him crying in front of Michael Mann is the shit.
Did you see that one?
Yeah.
Yes.
It reminded me a lot of you.
He's like, you send me a letter.
And then Michael Mann is like, I send everyone who auditions me a letter.
And he's like, I don me a letter and then Michael Mann is like, I send everyone who auditions me a letter and he's like,
I don't care,
I framed it.
Chris,
I have an idea.
A new pod called
Did You See That One
where you just tell everybody
all the YouTube videos
that you watched the day before.
So I got Maestro
for 500 bucks,
The Killer for 320 bucks
and then,
look,
a lot of things happened
in 2023.
Dune Part 2
did not happen.
I had that for $143. Challengers was did not happen. I had that for $143.
Challengers was taken from us.
I had that for $15.
Havoc, which I think I have drafted for two years now.
I believe so.
The Tom Hardy London Underworld Drug Dealing Crime Saga.
Oh, that does sound good.
$22.
From the director of The Raid.
Scott Stuber, man.
Come up off that file.
Let me see it.
Come up off that file? Yeah, like let it go. Put it on Netflix. Uplo. Scott Stuber, man. Come up off that file. Let me see it. Come up off that file?
Yeah, like let it go.
Put it on Netflix.
Fair enough.
Upload it.
Yeah, absolutely.
In part two, I drafted The Bike Riders,
which had a very circuitous route
to finally getting to theaters,
hopefully in 24.
Yeah, it is dated.
Focus Features this summer.
Anyone But You, which I haven't seen.
$225.
Way to support your own investments
and then the nickel boys 80 bucks didn't come out apartment 7a didn't come out didn't come out and
quicksand i didn't i didn't ever saw it and i drafted that for 345 dollars that was about a
horror movie about quicksand it starts off like so strong. It's Maestro the Killer
and you got Dune Part 2
for $143.
And Challengers
for $15
because you bid me up
on something.
I think you had gotten
bid up on Barbie and Killers
without money
and then I beat you
on Challengers.
Yeah, that's okay.
Now, of course,
we can all retain
any of these titles
and it might make sense
to retain some of these titles.
For $100.
For an additional $100.
Not to be a stickler
but in the past
we have done it
so that you can only retain
the things
from the most recent auction.
So like
your part one movies
that did not get released.
Do you think I should retain
anyone but you?
No.
They already came out.
Do we know for sure
that Quicksand is out?
It is and I saw it. Was it good? No. I think it's also like Brazilian. do we know for sure that quicksand is out does anybody
it is and I saw it
was it good
no
I think it's also
like Brazilian
it's Argentinian
I was like
what is it
oh okay
I thought this was
going to be like
a Michael Jai White movie
I guess
I might be wrong
because
so the quicksand
is it just like
in one place
and everyone's
going toward it
or does the quicksand
spread
like
what you actually want like meaning does the world become covered the quicksand spread like what you
actually want like
meaning the world
become covered with
quicksand well how
does it function um
seems like you just
walk around it's it's
your standard operating
quicksand okay it is
just like one it's in
a remote locale and
people just jungle
environment just
accidentally happening
that's the whole movie
just get dudes just
keep slipping in there
like what was I'm in
the quicksand and they
die and then it's like
that 30 times.
No, there's like
the being trapped part
is the intrigue.
How do you get out of it
once you've been trapped?
Oh, so they're inside
the quicksand.
Yeah.
Oh, okay.
I don't think you would
like the film.
Yeah, no.
Quicksand is a fear.
Is it?
Yeah.
I mean, that seems awful.
Where are you on avalanches?
Well, you know me
and mountains. So it's like I'm not trying to be there anyway. There's you on avalanches? Well, you know me and mountains.
So it's like I'm not trying to be there anyway.
There's just an avalanche in Tahoe.
Interesting.
Were you there?
No.
Okay.
You didn't like Mark Wahlberg your way through it?
I was making the watch.
I was here.
Wow.
Interesting.
Kind of an avalanche of content.
Yeah.
Where are you on avalanches?
Are you afraid?
No.
I wouldn't want to be like camping on the side of a mountain when one happened.
But like if it was at the force majeure distance, I think I would be into it.
Funny moment happened last weekend.
Where are you in when it comes to doors of planes blowing off at 20,000 feet?
If that happens, I'm literally that guy who's like the first guy out the door, you know,
who just like blows away.
It's like, ah!
I'm not like sticking it out. My seat belt is off the minute i can take it off like i'm totally after that situation i could see you like does alice allow that does alice allow me to take
off my seat yeah well alice is just a really stickler for strapping in on the airplane you
know for herself though okay she's not enforcing the larger Yes Honestly she can give a fuck About me
No I had a funny moment
Though speaking of that
Which is that
I was at my house
I think last Thursday
Or Friday
And I was working
In my bedroom
And there was an earthquake
I don't know if you guys
Felt this earthquake
It was a 4.2
Earthquake
There was?
What?
One of the worst places
To be during an earthquake
Was that here?
Very small earthquake
I assume so
And Alice was at the park.
Last Friday.
And Eileen was in the house
with me as well.
And I was like,
oh my God, an earthquake.
I think my first thought was like,
Alice's first earthquake
instead of like,
is Alice okay?
So she's at the park
and texted the nanny
and the nanny was like,
there was not an earthquake.
And I'm like,
you're a third of a mile
away from my house.
There was an earthquake
and she's like, no earthquake. And in my like, you're a third of a mile away from my house. There was an earthquake and she's like,
no earthquake.
And in my mind,
the entire playground
was like shaking
and like children
were falling from the swings.
Is your nanny
like the Aaron Rodgers
of earthquakes?
Meaning she doesn't
believe in them?
No, she said
there was no reaction.
No one there.
Is there a person
who is the Aaron Rodgers of earthquakes?
I think I'm going to start doing that.
Has anyone ever double checked the Richter scale?
Who's calibrating it?
That's a fair take.
What time of day was this?
Friday.
It was like 11 a.m., something like that.
It was 11.
Yeah.
You didn't feel this?
No, I didn't.
But I was at bar class, you know, as I am.
Putting in the work.
From time to time.
So, yeah.
It's because you have so much strength.
It was my shoulders were holding everything stable.
Yeah.
And you were so grounded.
Exactly.
That you could not be shaken by the earth.
There we go.
I think that for the auction, if there's really a fight for a movie,
whoever can hold their arms out longer should get it for the price of $1.
We'll have to see if that's worth it.
If that's worth doing
that exercise literally.
Okay so then we all
have an option here.
I guess Amanda you
don't have an option
if we're only doing
from the last one.
Chris you have three
options and I have one
option.
But I guess do we
want to change that
though because I guess
there was still always
a chance that Dune
Part 2 could have
come out but we just
didn't know that Chris
couldn't have kept it
until.
That's a fair point.
So I think that we
should just allow him
to keep anything.
Exactly.
Right.
So you're allowed to keep anything exactly so you're allowed
to keep anything
we could have
and did
that's true
I'll tell you what
if you had asked me
in the spring
I would not have guessed
that SAG would have
gone on strike
I would have guessed
that the WGA would have
and I think SAG
being on strike
was the number one
reason why
because that was
why challengers
and stuff
yeah
so it's a trick
should we I don't know what. Should we, I don't know
what's the right move.
I don't know if it's
the right move to allow
you to carry everything
or to carry nothing.
I think if we carry
everything, it'll, I
think you should maybe
get, how about you get
one, you get one rebuy,
but it can be from
either section.
Okay.
Okay.
That's, that's, I like
that.
That's very fair.
Because that way, like,
because like, I think I
would probably take
multiple ones here if I,
if I had my druthers,
because that's a pretty fair...
I got these at pretty fair prices, so it wouldn't be that expensive.
Yeah.
But let's be fair.
Okay.
So we can all take one.
You get one carryover.
Yeah.
That seems reasonable.
So that allows Amanda to carry over Blitz if she wants to.
And it's plus 100 from what you originally paid?
Correct.
Yeah.
Okay.
So I will take Hitman. Okay i mean i get it for 275 because
on the one hand i don't get any box office and i don't even think i'm going to get any oscars
from this movie but i want this movie okay and i think 275 is a reasonable price for what might
turn out to be one of the best movies of the year i feel the same way about dune part two
i i got that.
So I will get that at $243 and I can put that
in a variety of categories.
I don't have to decide yet, right?
I may can trigger...
You don't have to put it
in categories.
You don't have to put it
in anything.
Yeah, so I'm going to take
Dune Part 2
because $243
for what might be
the biggest movie of the year
is a great price.
I completely agree.
Okay.
You want to carry Blitz or no?
I don't think so.
Oh, yeah. I mean, we'll just put it back. We'll put it back on the market. I love it. You know You want to carry Blitz or no? I don't think so. Oh, yeah.
I mean, we'll just put it back on the market.
I love it.
You know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Is there anything else you could have?
You only had Blitz?
That was the only one.
Everything else I picked perfectly.
Sorry to speak into the microphone there.
Okay.
So we're up, right?
Well, we got to do auction order.
Yeah, we do.
Yeah.
I'm just going to spin a wheel here.
The auction order doesn't matter quite as much as the draft order, really.
I think it does.
I think going first is a bit...
Amanda, you're going first.
God damn it.
Okay.
And going second appears to be Sean.
Okay.
Okay.
Well...
Do you think this is going to be a good movie year?
It's going to be a different movie year.
Because last year, we had so many knowns.
Not in the movies, but it's just like every great director released a movie last year.
Great year for dads.
Sure.
And then this year, it seems a little thin.
We've got some things to look forward to.
But then there is the possibility of like, oh, wow, I wasn't even expecting this.
And look at this wonderful thing that I've discovered, whether it's a new filmmaker or something that you just weren't anticipating.
So that has its own virtues.
No one drafted past lives, for example.
Correct.
So we'll see.
I guess.
So what do we do with the sequels?
You're allowed two?
Two.
Two across ten, though.
So that means you can only take two across your entire slate.
Okay.
I had one other question, which was, Sean, you have since seen the bike riders.
I have.
So are you allowed to option?
I'm not going to draft the bike.
I try to not acquire anything I've seen.
So I've seen Challengers and the bike.
Have you seen Mark Scorsese's New Jesus movie?
I'm filming it right now.
We're on day 11.
Oh, I forgot that you...
We're just about wrapping up.
Been talking with
Ken Jones about it
every day for the last
couple of months.
So I'm feeling good about it.
I'm also playing
Punch's pilot.
Yeah.
It's actually an interesting
role for me.
It's incredible casting.
Thank you.
Okay.
So I forgot that
you can't do Challengers.
He's a good guy
in that story, right?
Yeah, totally.
That's what they told me
Right
Good guy
He's like kind of the captain
He's just following the rules you know
He had a job to do
You know you believe in work
He's just a soldier
He's like the beekeeper
Exactly
Okay
Kind of
That you can't take challengers
Makes things interesting
So I guess I'll do
Challengers
Starting at 100
So I am I have spent Challengers starting at $100.
So I have spent $243.
Is that right?
Yeah, that's right.
And you have previously possessed Challengers at the low, low price of $15. And you released it.
Yeah, I released it.
At $100, you said?
Well, I'll put it at $125 up.
Okay, I will put $150 up.
I suppose I should say Challengers,
if you're just tuning in,
is the Luca Guadagnino
film starring Zendaya,
Josh O'Connor,
and Mike Faced.
It's a sex tennis movie.
That's really all
I know about it.
I haven't seen it yet.
Bob and I went to the cinema
last night.
We saw The Beekeeper
and they showed many previews
before the film
and they showed
the Challengers trailer
which I had not seen
and I thought they gave away
too much of the movie.
Okay.
Well, I think that I watched
part of it but I'm not
going to watch all of it.
I don't really watch trailers.
It used to be a country man.
I know but I used to
I mean trailers used to be
the shit.
Yeah you can't do it anymore.
I only watch David Fincher
trailers now.
So I'm at 150.
I would like to implore
the people behind Challengers
to release some
Five seconds.
Tennis Challengers merch
that I can
Ooh.
Right?
Oh, so like
we'd love to send you
some stuff?
Yeah, well
Like a racket cover
with Joshua Conner's face?
No, that's a little
too merchy.
I was hoping for
something like
slightly more designed
that Jonathan Anderson
I think did the costumes.
Okay.
Do you know who that is?
I don't.
I have to assume
this has expired.
It has.
$150.
Wow.
A steal.
$150 for challengers for Amanda. You know what? You 150. Wow. A steal. 150 for challenges for Amanda.
You know what?
You're really nice.
Sometimes you're too nice, but thank you.
I'm just consumed by making sure I have enough money for Rebel Moon 2.
Okay.
What's the subtitle on that one?
Scargiver?
Yeah.
Oh, shit.
That's what they called you back at Graylin, right?
You were writing soccer columns?
That's what Pep called you?
Ah, this guy gave up.
Okay.
So now I'm putting a movie up, huh?
I think this is a movie
that we all want to see.
Okay.
Are we all desperate to see it?
I don't know.
Furiosa Mad Max Saga.
Oh, yeah.
This is a sequel.
I guess a prequel.
Speaking of trailers that didn't set the world on fire a sequel. I guess a prequel. Speaking of trailers
that didn't set the world on fire.
Yeah.
I've shared my thoughts on that,
which is that I think
people should be patient.
Yeah.
But I understand the skepticism.
And I, you know,
we are noted CGI
when not applied properly skeptics
on this podcast.
Sometimes it can be applied magnificently,
as it was in Fury Road,
directed by George Miller.
That's very true. My mom, who is a huge Mad Max fan, and introduced me to those movies at a really
way too young age, and we often re-watch Mad Max and Road Warrior, even beyond Thunderdome at times.
We started watching Fury Road when I was last home. We got about 40 minutes into it, and she
said, what the fuck is going on? And I said, what do you mean? And she is just like,
well, I don't understand a single thing that's happening. And I was like, haven't you seen this
before? And she's like, no. And it was just really interesting to watch Fury Road with someone who
likes the movies, but it was completely outside of the George Miller saved action movies hype cycle.
And she was just like, what's happening? Well, that's the thing about that movie.
And it certainly seems like
Furiosa will have a lot more
in common with Fury Road.
But Fury Road is so different
from especially the first two
Mad Max movies,
which are so nitty gritty
and on the ground.
I'll put it up on the board
for $50,
Furiosa Mad Max Saga.
I'll go $100.
Okay.
I'll go $125.
Do you think Chris Hemsworth is going to be good in this?
Do you think he's going to be a good villain?
I think he's a good actor who's no longer been asked to act,
so I'm a little worried about that.
Okay.
I do like his persona sometimes,
but not in this setting.
I wish he could find a way to meet the middle ground
between Extraction Guy and Taika Waititi's Thor.
Like, what is the middle of that?
Is it Black Hat?
It is not, having seen Black Hat recently.
Have you seen his National Geographic television series?
I haven't.
I haven't either. Juliette Lippman has recapped it to me at length.
I think Juliette could be the co-host of Did You See That One? with Chris Ryan.
And she did see Chris Hmsworth just traveling around looking
at various i i want to say aquatic animals but the backstory of that show is quite sad isn't it
right that he's found that he is like potentially he carries the alzheimer's gene or something yeah
and so that just that premise makes me sad like it makes me not want to watch the show even though
i think what he's doing is very cool as an idea. Yeah.
He's working through it in his own way.
He doesn't wear shoes a lot in Australia, but I think that's common there.
I believe Sean holds the bid right now at $125.
Does anyone else want to match?
I'll bid $175.
Is Chris Hemsworth a good time to ask you about the protein plates, Bobby?
Sure.
Okay.
So I just don't understand this. So as a...
I'm going to bid $200 before Amanda gets into this.
You can't make that...
That was a really good...
Just to let you know, Sean did ask me to cut extraneous chat on our last episode because
it was two hours and 30 minutes.
You guys were in here for such a long time.
So that did get cut out of the last pod, just for people's sake.
The protein stuff did? Just the back and forth.
Don't let him do that.
Well, I didn't know. I didn't say
what to cut. I just said it was a really
long pod. What was I supposed to cut? The poor things talk?
Did you cut anything else that was of note?
No, no. Only when you
were talking. It was all of your
comments. Did you cut the fashion review?
No, I don't think so. Okay.
Because that was very important. Okay.
Wow. Okay.
So I wanted to ask Bobby about bulking
and a new development I've noticed
in the bro bulking space.
I'm up, right? Yeah.
I'm in the lead for this. No, Sean bid
$200 quietly. Okay.
You ask your question and then I will put
in my bid.
Really against the spirit of the auction here.
I'm letting Amanda monologue questions.
Sweet Cream is now selling protein plates, which is just protein and grains, not a vegetable in sight.
And I am just not really sure that I understand this nutritional—the nutritional science behind this.
They made a slight change to it.
It used to have sweet potatoes in it.
It used to have, like, a vegetable It used to have like a vegetable side too.
Right.
Even though that is also technically a carb.
Like, so it's just carbs and protein and not vegetables.
Okay.
And so are you turning on vegetables, Chris Ryan, in 2024?
No, I'm still pro-vegetable.
Okay.
Yeah.
What is, why are they doing this?
Is it just because the bulking men don't want vegetables?
I think honestly, probably it's like a financial thing.
It's probably harder to keep vegetables fresh and source them.
Wow, interesting.
Sweet green moving away from vegetables.
I think there's also just like a lot of people who are like,
what I would love is just a piece of salmon and get out of here.
And I would also like to bid $225.
Yeah, great.
$250.
I actually, I introduced the idea the other day to Bobby that
one of the things that
I'm really focused on the diet part of all
of this right now and not the working out part.
And I realized like
were I fully to commit to the diet yet not
commit to the working out, I'd be curious what happened to my
body if I just like all of a sudden start
eating like just bison meat all morning.
Without lifting.
Yeah.
Do you think it would give you an interesting energy on the pod?
You know, like you're like sweating. You would just be insanely
bloated all day long.
It's just like you're sweating blood
in a way.
I mean, you could try it. The smell of
bison? Yeah, just out of your pores.
That seems like a good idea.
What's the most recent bib? 225.
I'll go 250.
Yeah. 260. You're going to get this one, aren't you? 225. I'll go 250. Yeah.
260.
You're going to get this one, aren't you?
You're going to chase me down.
I don't know.
I mean, I'm really excited about this movie.
This is like Darius Slay and Mike Evans just going mano a mano.
So this is running after the Eagles game, but the Eagles game is on Monday.
I think Mike Evans is hurt, isn't he?
No.
I think it's A.J. Brown that is hurt, unfortunately, for you.
But as I said, I'm pulling for the Eagles.
Thanks, man.
I got your back.
First of all, who cares about the Bucs?
Second of all, I thought it was really rude what Bill Simmons did to you on the rewatchables.
I thought it was really funny.
Spiteful?
I was hugely entertained by it.
Bill and I want the same things from Chris and from Zach Barron and Eagles fans.
280. 280.
Yeah.
290.
310.
315.
340.
It just seems carb heavy.
That's kind of where I am with it.
To protein plate.
Do you think Anya Taylor-Joy is going to be able to pull it?
Like, will she be able to carry it?
I think Anya Taylor-Joy would love the protein plate.
Yeah.
But it has quinoa in it now
which also has protein.
I would love to see
one of these movies
about a guy who's like,
I'm not that good of a driver.
You know?
Has that ever happened
in Road Warrior?
You think you're a good driver?
I don't know if I would be
a good driver in this context.
Well, I mean, who would?
I mean, I can't drive stick.
You mean the apocalypse?
Yeah.
And then also,
Road Warrior is very careful
about he has to go siphon gasoline
from overturned cars constantly.
Go juice.
Yeah.
Well, that'll fit right in
with your bison meat.
So think about that.
Yeah.
He eats dog food
in the second one.
There's a long-running joke
on Lifting Instagram the dog food is very
high in protein you know low in cal three uh to me yeah 375 oh it's a sizable bid
i do think anya taylor joyce can hack it you know i think this is going to be like commercial north
after never seen this from her before though never never seen her in this kind of a mode
you got it she's not a very um loud actor you know right but i wouldn't say that fury road was
i mean the everything around it was loud i would say one of its chief flaws is tom hardy
not enunciating words right but all the rest of them are just kind of looking
like regal
as stuff happens
around them.
I mean, you know,
Charlize Theron has that
big like screaming
falling to her knees moment.
You know.
Sure, Anya Taylor-Joy
can do that.
There's a theatrical
kind of acting
that comes in a movie like that.
Anya Taylor-Joy is theatrical.
Yeah, when she's on
the fucking boat
in Northman,
she's just like.
That's true.
Yeah.
That's true.
I forgot about that
in the Northman.
That is a good setup
I heard you say that
I'm sorry Bobby
I'm sorry Bobby
I didn't hear you say that
where's Skarsgård
the Alexander
where is he
where is he
no well
he's in the studio
let's bring him in
he's coming in to do
a celeb shot
for Chris's nomination
he's doing an episode
of sports card nonsense
so we're gonna have
him on in
oh that would be
is it This episode is sports card nonsense, so we're going to have to bring him on in. Oh, that would be... Is it...
You got it.
I got Furiosa?
375, right?
Or 370.
You got it.
All right.
I'm applying a new methodology.
You fucked me right here.
Did I?
Yeah, because now I was trying to bid you up, but this is not the other sequel I wanted.
I know. The other one is the one I want.
You're not going to take that one, though, are you?
Of course I am. You are? No, you're not.
Yeah, I mean, I got a ride
with the Irish, you know? God damn it.
Paul Mescal is coming. Oh, well.
Unless you are. Oh, I didn't think you were going to. That's not what I meant.
Oh. That's not what I meant.
But I can't take it now anyway. You meant Joker
Fully Ado? No, I didn't. You can not what I meant but I can't take it now anyway. You meant Joker folio do? No.
You can just say screw it and I won't
get that category.
I won't get that point.
You can have it.
Oh you're talking
about Romulus.
Uh no.
Oh my god.
No.
I'm looking at my
Beetlejuice 2?
Sean look me in the eye
and there's a third
movie in a trilogy
that's coming out
this year.
I'll just put it
out right now.
Deadpool 3?
Maxine. Oh. I got just put it out right now. Deadpool 3? Maxine!
Oh.
I got some inside dope on this one too. They got me more excited for it and I shared that with Chris. Were you not excited
for it in the first place? I was super pumped. It was on
my list on the episode, but now I'm even more excited
about it based on what I heard. Maxine
is the third film from
Ty West with Mia Goff about
the Pearl character. Yes.
This one is now in the 80s. I guess it's somehow we've time jumped. It's about the Pearl character. Yes. This one is now in the 80s.
I guess it's somehow
we've time jumped.
It's not the same character.
It's the same like energy.
All right.
So now she is a,
is she a porn star
living in Los Angeles
in the 80s?
I believe so.
And it's going to be like,
you can,
it's your info.
I didn't get this.
It just sounds like
there's a real cop,
LA cop movie element.
Now what to you
is the ur-LA cop movie?
To Live and Die in LA, probably.
What's the other one?
Oh, shoot.
I can't even.
That was an incredible.
I throw you a fastball down the middle
and you're looking for change up.
I don't understand.
It's unbelievable.
The onion field.
I don't think that, I don't think that
I don't think Maxine's
going to be heat
but
Okay
So are you putting that
on the board right now?
Maxine?
Yeah, why not?
Okay, how much?
20 bucks
Okay
50 bucks
I mean, I guess I could
bid for the spirit
Are you excited for it?
I mean, sure
I guess I'll see this
So you have 50 bucks on this?
Yeah
I mean, 75
You can have it
I just wanted to...
75 too.
That's great.
Okay.
Amanda's going to get Maxine for $75.
I'm going to let you have that.
You should institute a hard rule.
That is the funniest shit.
Amanda just got Maxine.
That if you get a movie in the auction,
you have to see it on opening weekend.
Oh, she's going to see it?
And talk about it.
No, I know.
You didn't see any of your movies.
They didn't come out.
Anyone but you. Anyone but you. Oh, but I wasn't playing in Philadelphia, I don't think. No, I know. You didn't see any of your movies. They didn't come out. Anyone but you.
Anyone but you.
Oh, but I wasn't playing
in Philadelphia, I don't think.
Yes, it was.
It's literally the breakout hit
of 2024.
Okay.
But you saw Zone of Interest,
which you thought was a prequel
to Anyone But You,
so you wanted to see that first
before getting into Anyone But You.
Amanda holds the bid at 75 right now.
Time is elapsing.
She can have it.
Did you see that Jonathan Glazer is like,
I'm going to make a fun, like a tender film next?
A tender film?
He said it's about tenderness.
Is he doing Paddington 3?
He's doing Maxine 2.
Okay.
Great pick.
Thanks so much.
I love Ty West.
I love Mia Goth.
All right.
So you're up again okay
we're in snake
let's do Blitz
because you let that go right
I did
so I'll start
the Blitz bidding
at 150 bucks
and I would just say
that this is the only thing
that I kind of
feel like
outside of the blockbusters
that I have like
a really good feeling
about being nominated
for Oscars as well
so could hit a couple of things here obviously also an original film so you don't have to worry
about the sequel part uh Saoirse Ronan uh Harris Dickinson starring in this account of the bombing
of London during World War II I completely agree with you about the Oscars I I I don't know what
the big I mean I do know what the big contenders are. I was looking at the betting markets and...
I don't know, man.
There's a couple of films, but like...
It's like if Megalopolis, for instance, is not good,
God forbid, you know?
Don't say that out loud.
Why? Because Francis Ford Coppola is sitting in the other room.
He's been funding this show for the last 10 years.
He sold his winery so that we could start this show.
Did you not know that?
He believes in
creative expression. Yeah, so do I.
And cinema. Anyway, I'm
taking Blitz and Steve has...
I'm nominating
Blitz. Yeah, for how much?
$150.
And McQueen hasn't made a narrative...
Well, he made small acts.
So that was obviously a super...
Not since Widows has he made a feature film,
which is great.
Widows was so good.
Yeah.
Six years ago.
I'm out on Widows.
Shorting it.
No, I'm just kidding.
I love Widows.
Remember that scene with Colin Farrell
in the backseat,
just being a demon,
talking about ruining Chicago
with all of his evil ways?
Great movie.
175.
Pretty bullish on this one.
Whether I get it or not,
I'm like,
this is one to keep an eye on.
Do you know Saoirse Ronan dates Jack Loudon?
Yes.
Where have you been?
On my couch watching Faux, which wasn't very good.
It wasn't.
And Googling who does Saoirse Ronan date.
Yeah, they've been together for many years. There were rumors of an engagement because she was spotted wearing a ring on Instagram.
Did you see, speaking of YouTube clips,
Jack Loudon was on Graham Norton
and shared the Christmas village that he builds every year.
And he, like, I swear to God,
he collects, like, little houses and Christmas figurines.
And every year he builds a village
and there's snow that is actually kitty litter.
Like a model.
Like a model village, yeah.
Like a small one that's set up.
And then he was like,
sure, I will share this with the public on Graham Norton.
I once went to a hardcore show at The Rat in Boston
to go see, I think, Kiss It Goodbye and Overcast.
Why did you say those names to me?
There was a sewage leak in The Rat
and they put down kitty litter to absorb it.
Amanda knows she was in Overcast for 10 years.
It was incredible.
I have to say, I think kitty litter is toxic.
I don't think we should be breathing it.
Okay.
Interesting take.
You don't have a cat, so it's all good.
Did you hear that one from AR12?
Who has it right now?
200?
Amanda, 200. 225. who has it right now Amanda 200
225
how much money do you have left
I don't think I have a ton
you have 382
250
Sewage League would be a great hardcore band name
they should have just named it that
I'm sure there's a band called Sewage League
if you look it up on Spotify right now
I guarantee you there's a band called Sewage League. If you look it up on Spotify right now, I guarantee you there's a band called Sewage League.
275.
300.
It's a tough one
because I feel like
if I don't get it,
I'm going to be like,
should have tried to get it.
This is going to be like
Avengers Endgame
all over again with you.
I don't know what that means.
You don't remember
when you almost quit the pod
because you didn't get
Avengers Endgame?
And you just started crying?
Yeah.
It was real like, I don't want to do this anymore.
I gotta be honest with you.
Like, are you on drugs?
Like, you very openly are like, you started crying?
You were crying.
Okay, I was crying.
Fair enough, I was crying.
Will I start crying if I don't get crying. Fair enough. I was crying. Will I start crying
if I don't get Blitz?
That's a big question.
You said 300?
Yeah.
I'll go 325.
Let's see.
I'll go 350.
375.
Chris, I haven't seen
any live-action superhero movie
since Avengers Endgame.
Do you think I should break the streak this year?
For Madame Web?
You're not going to?
Oh, for Madame Web.
I think if you're on LSD, you should go do that.
But honestly, I don't know.
You think I should break the streak?
Are you guys excited for Madame Web?
Yes.
I wanted to say 385, and also, you have to see that with me.
We have to be sitting next to each other, or else what's the fun? Keep taunting me. See how many movies I that with me. We have to be sitting next to each other or else what's the fun?
Keep taunting me.
See how many movies I see with you.
You're upset because I said you cried
of all the things that I've thrown at you at the last.
Is the disinformation campaign.
This is a place of truth.
And I do not appreciate the way
that you are bending that truth to your will.
You quit on the podcast.
You quit.
You were just like, I don't want to do this anymore.
You did do that.
It was fine.
There's a difference between quitting and that.
I continued.
I finished the draft.
Yeah, but like sullenly.
Well, sure.
Enough that friends of ours like asked me afterwards.
They're like, what is Sean okay
like what was that about
and I was like
yeah sometimes
he's just a baby
if they're friends of mine
and they feel that I am sad
they should contact me directly
yeah but then I was
you're not my
messenger
okay
so if they reach out
in the future
you say you should
check in with Sean
he's been pretty low
because he lost
endgame in a draft
if god forbid
you were ever
like your larynx
were paralyzed.
God forbid.
And then I couldn't
do this anymore.
Which one of me or Amanda
would you want
to be your advocate
and not your advocate
for your personal health
but just be like
my new voice.
If something happens
to me physically
this show is canceled
and we're deleting
the feed, Chris.
That just seems rash.
Yeah, it seems short-sighted.
There's still
more movies.
I thought the whole project was keeping movies alive.
Buy me!
There was a brand new George Carlin special that just came out.
There's lots of things we can do with your fucking IP.
I'll tell you what.
If AI gets good enough that you can recreate me whilst my larynx is paralyzed,
I encourage you to keep going with the show.
I am not crying.
I am Sean Pennessey.
I am on Letterboxd.
Oh no, I got blown out of a plane.
I support that.
I honestly do support it.
Amanda has the bid at $380.
So we're just not doing time limits at this point?
I mean, you guys don't seem to be interested in five.
And ruin all this gold?
Christmas did AI Sean for God's sake.
You can have it at $380.
I can have it.
Great.
$380 to Amanda.
How much money does Amanda?
85.
Actually.
385.
Yeah.
I will nominate gladiator too.
I'll put it up for 50 bucks.
Okay.
75.
This is not a film you're interested in?
$200.
Okay.
Okay.
So it is. The extent to which I'm
interested in this can't be quantified with money it is it's true I mean I think it can
and it can be also $381 that you have to spend that is the maximum amount it can be quantified
I am on the highest of cliffs with this one it's actually probably $380 because you need $1 for
each of your other two movies. Yes.
So that's what you can spend.
I'm probably not going to get it and I'm just
telling you I am
fucking free soloing
on this one because
if this is bad,
if Paul Meskel
and Barry Keoghan
and fucking Denzel
can't make it.
Barry Keoghan is no
longer in this film.
Oh, why?
I thought he got
jacked for it.
He dropped out,
I think, to make a movie
with Lin Ramsey.
I think... Can I just say something about Barry man yeah he doesn't fucking miss all he does is make
I forgot he was in Dunkirk the other day I was just like watching a Dunkirk making yeah what
about Eternals hey we all we all swing and miss sometimes but that guy he's not fucking off to go I mean yeah he's gonna be the Joker or whatever but like he he's not messing around he's not fucking off to go
I mean yeah
he's gonna be the Joker
or whatever
but like he's not
messing around
he's not like
oh I gotta go be in
Scargiver
if he's leaving
he was in Eternals Chris
I know
I know
I know
he's great
I like him a lot
I think he was replaced
by Fred Hechinger
I like him too
from
White Lotus
from the White Lotus
really good homie
White Lotus season one
yeah
I think that's who
replaced him.
Do you know the other stars of this film?
Besides Denzel Washington?
Yeah.
Pedro Pascal.
Yeah.
Pedro Pascal and Connie Nielsen.
That's cool.
So I bid, how much did I bid?
$200.
Okay.
$225.
$250.
$275.
How much do I have left?
I have $390.
Okay, $300.
$320. $330. $35. How much do I have left? I have $390. Okay, $300. $320.
$330.
$340.
$380.
You get it.
The best part about you getting it is one of the triggers has already been eliminated for you.
Because it's a sequel.
You have three sequels right now.
Can I trade anything?
Amanda can still go.
I could still do it.
That's true.
That's true.
You were really nice to me about challengers, though. But I also really want this, and I don't have it that's true that's true you were really nice to me about challengers though
but I also
really want this
and I don't have anything
that's gonna make any money
so
this is what I was saying
there's like
almost
so many movies
that are just sequels
mm-hmm
it's true
I don't know whether
I can go for the jugular
with you Chris
by making me
by taking it from me?
Yeah.
You can, please do.
But then he might take it from me.
Oh, so you're thinking that if you bid me out of this,
then he's going to jump back in?
Because he has the funds.
Be interesting.
So.
Be interesting for you.
Are you worried about this at all?
Do you think Ridley is moving too fast at the end of his career?
In my heart, I have really enjoyed roughly 85% of Ridley
Scott's films, and I have also enjoyed the movies that people think are not good in the late period.
Yes. So personally, I'm not worried at all. Okay. In kind of the more global sense,
I think there's reason for concern. Also, this is a big test for Paul Meskel. This is the exact
opposite of every single part he's ever played. Yeah. So, and he was cast in this role
after playing Stanley Kowalski in Streetcar.
Because Ridley's always watching.
I believe it was the producers of the film who saw it.
Okay.
Do you not think Ridley Scott
is familiar with Streetcar Named Desire?
I'm just not sure he's hitting up the theater
on a regular basis.
If I were him, I'd just hang in my castle.
So it's still on me, right?
Yeah.
380. I'm not going to bid against you in my castle. So it's still on me, right? Yeah. $380.
I'm not going to bid against you.
Okay.
Chris gets it for $380.
Well, whatever.
We'll figure it out when we get to the end of this.
So Chris has $2 remaining.
Amanda has $390, and I have $725.
I actually have not gotten a movie yet because I carried overhead.
That's a strange one.
Okay, Amanda, you're up.
Well, I mean, I guess that seems unfun.
I'm really just like bidding against you at this point.
Wow.
That sucks.
That's not fun.
What's a movie that you want?
I don't know.
I guess, I guess...
Let's do Twisters
just to have some fun.
Okay.
Is this coming out?
Coming out.
It's dated.
When's it dated for?
July 19th, 2024.
Fantastic.
It's a sequel?
Love a teaser for this.
Just not for my own benefit
because I don't want Twisters
spoiled for me,
but more just to see that they're...
That it's real?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Lee Isaac Chung. Glenn Powell. Daisy Edgar Jones. Daisy Edgar Jones. All right. for me, but more just to see that they're... That it's real? Yeah. Yeah. Leah Zick-Chung?
Glenn Powell? Daisy Edgar-Jones?
Daisy Edgar-Jones. Alright.
I will do
200.
225.
Okay.
240.
What have you got?
Challengers Maxine
Blitz.
$250.
$275.
$280.
$300.
Really hard to say if this is going to be any good.
Have you watched Twister recently?
I can't say that I have because my 90s memory of it is really perfect in my, you know, 14-year-old.
It's a fantastic movie.
Is it?
I really enjoy it.
I did watch it last year.
I would say I enjoyed myself.
Paxton is unbelievable.
Yeah.
Unbelievable.
He is marvelous.
I'm not sure that I fully was into the twisting as much as I wanted to be.
Because of the special effects or just because you just don't care about tornadoes?
No, no.
Tornadoes are scary.
The staging I thought was, there's one sequence that is amazing and everything else I was
like, I think I wanted more out of my movie called Twister.
Did you guys have to do tornado drills in school?
Not in Philadelphia, no.
We did in Atlanta.
No.
I did.
And there was like a very weird fog horn.
All the time.
Yeah, the tornado horn.
Maybe we did.
I just don't remember.
I don't think I ever did that.
I was too busy hanging out.
Smoking.
I couldn't get you to come in to do it.
Smoking.
Dirty tornado.
In elementary school?
Yeah.
Like River Phoenix style.
Fair enough.
What is the price?
300?
325.
Why not?
350.
350? 350. 350?
Yeah.
What are my blockbuster implications here?
I mean, I don't have to have all my blockbusters right now, too.
That's the other thing is I'll have a better sense of the schedule in the second half of the year.
350?
Is that where it's at?
Yeah.
I mean, you can just...
Do you want it?
If you want it, you can bid more than I have.
You've just explained auctioning.
Thank you.
You can have it.
Okay, thank you.
You're welcome.
I just don't want it on my ledger if I'm not going to love it.
That's kind of where my head's at with these movies and this game.
Yeah?
It's not about...
Maybe that Avengers Endgame moment taught me something.
That's beautiful.
Maybe that taught me
about really appreciating
the true cinema.
You're just like,
you're such a wide open
canvas right now.
This is like
Rothko at work.
What colors will you choose?
Because you have
so much money,
so much real estate.
Amanda and I,
I'm down to two bucks.
Yep.
Right, but don't I
have another one?
Yeah.
Isn't it Snake?
Yeah.
Yeah, you can nominate one.
I'm just saying like...
Yeah.
We're just...
Well, I'm going to spend $40 on the bike riders.
Okay.
Austin Butler season.
I'm being punished for working hard at my job.
Seeing films.
For supporting Jeff Nichols.
That's right.
Okay.
So then the auction is over.
Yeah.
Well, I have four open spaces oh I can still
nominate movies right
that's true
yeah that's true
so my next nomination
will be
Mickey 17
which I will take
for three dollars
do you think it's gonna come out
I do
I do think it's gonna come out
this year
even if it is not even
by Warner Brothers
I think it'll come out
are you gonna do this
where you like save a bunch of money?
It doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter.
It doesn't roll over.
It doesn't roll over.
Yeah.
You're up.
I will nominate James Watkins' Speak No Evil remake.
You can hold that.
I can have that.
For $1?
For $1.
Yeah.
You have to nominate another film.
Horizon.
Wow.
Now we're talking.
Yeah.
Okay.
So I can either take it or not take it.
So question, point of order.
Is he nominating part one?
Great question.
Part two?
I am nominating part one.
The whole thing?
Okay, that's good because that's original.
I don't know if we're going to get a part three.
Yeah.
By the time we record auction part two, will have seen horizon do you think that by the time we were will we have completed john
ford month on this pod yeah that's just me and you yeah eyes closed holding hands potting for six
hours singing she wore a yellow ribbon yeah so in the third act of They Were Expendable, Chris,
one of the things that is revealed about the American character.
So my thing about this is,
it could be absolutely dreadful.
And Kevin Costner has not directed very many good films.
And he's a great character in the arc of this podcast.
Yeah.
And in award season in the last two years.
And in Hollywood.
Would you have him on the big picture?
Would you have him on the big picture?
Of course.
To discuss filmmaking.
I mean, a million percent.
Yeah.
I think he's had an awesome career and has been in many movies I love.
He's a great actor.
Great movie star.
He's just an old guy who hasn't directed a lot of good movies.
He's starred in
right
well over a dozen
great movies
and his Hall of Fame episode
will be a lot of fun
there's reason to believe
that this is a terrible idea
yeah
that he has independently
raised like
300 million dollars
you know what
it's
every year
we don't have themes
for our years
but this is the year
of going all in
you know is it it's Coppola it's Costner it's selling off real estate We don't have themes for our years, but this is the year of going all in.
You know?
Is it?
It's Coppola.
It's Costner.
It's selling off real estate.
It's mortgaging your vineyard.
It's believing in yourself.
It's betting on yourself.
And it's betting on cinema.
And here in this room,
we should support people who do that.
Yeah.
I don't know if I'm comfortable comparing.
I mean, they are comparable,
but Coppola and Costner have different histories
in forming their bets.
Yeah.
That's why I'll be ripping out
Sean Clarence.
Are you going to let me get
Horizon for a dollar?
So when you get it,
here's what's going to happen.
I'll predict it right now.
When you get it,
all the CR heads are going to be like,
that's my guy.
That's my man.
They're going to clap.
They're going to be like
the true Horizon son.
All these guys are in
an Italian social club
somewhere.
Like, oh!
Another Horizon
for my boy!
But then we're going to see Horizon
and we're going to be like,
that was okay.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
But then,
I'm not going to feel good about it
if it's on my slate, you know?
Okay.
But maybe I'm just
out thinking myself.
Like, the bike riders are...
Now you're out thinking yourself.
Like, I know it's's gonna be funny when you get
three more movies
for like three dollars
and everything
it's not gonna be funny
but I want you to be
like participating in this
I know
I know
I think it's just
because I'm really
pretty iffy on the years
you should have taken
one or two for me
I think you wanted it
I think you knew
you wanted it
and now you're getting
now you're overthinking
I think it was Furiosa
I think I should have
gone a little harder there
okay and Dune 2 coming off the board was hard do you want to buy it for me for face value love this and now you're getting now you're overthinking I think it was Furiosa I think I should have gone a little harder there okay
and Dune 2 coming off
the board was hard
do you want to buy it
for me for face value
love this
for face value
yeah I'll sell it to you
for face value
because I get out of
the doghouse with sequels
and then I can keep drafting
wow
you want to buy it for me
I'll sell it to you
face value
you got a deal
holy shit
I didn't even know
okay
that's dead and company
rules brother
we just say
got one and i'm like
yeah and you know what the game continues because you've got a new a filled up bank account 375 and
i'm off my sequels schneid i'm gonna be a little bit honest now letting you have gladiator 2 is
sitting okay i got wait you should take a counter offer you should take a counter offer now you
hold it now you control the bidding for Furiosa.
I'm never going to turn on you.
I don't have any money left.
The same gesture.
I don't have any money left.
I can't do it.
You can trade.
You can just trade me.
And if you trade into open money,
because Chris has open money.
So you can trade into open money
to clear up some cash
for yourself too
okay
yeah like you could trade
or you could just give up
a title at its price
you want to trade me
Maxine for 75
it's all been leading to this
I guess that's also a sequel
it's all been leading to this
for trades
it's been leading to trades
I've been trying to tell you guys
to do trades the whole time
it's all been leading to this
so I sold you mine for
now you're saying you're upset about Gladiator 2?
I wouldn't say,
I wouldn't venture so far to say as upset,
but I wanted to note that decision
and the collegiality was sitting differently for me
in this moment.
In the interest of transparency,
I do not have,
I do not have an Oscar film right now.
I mean,
Dune 2 probably will be nominated,
but Speak No Evil Horizon, Gladiator 2,
I would gamble on not being in the Oscar race.
So I need Blitz.
And I'm open to talking about this.
I don't know what we can do here.
There's this $5.
Can I...
Right.
Oh, so it would basically be a one-to-one.
But that's...
Let's see. I guessone. But that's it.
Let's see.
I guess we could just revalue it.
So then I would have Challengers, Maxine, Gladiator 2, Twisters, and Bike Riders.
I think you're screwed.
Yeah, I don't think you can do it.
I don't think you can do it.
Because you paid more for Gladiator, and neither of you have any money left.
It's a good idea in spirit.
You could trade two for two.
It's all about the salary cap.
Okay. Because for the listeners
at home amanda's price for blitz was 385 dollars by giving me furiosa for 375 chris has cleared up
375 dollars for himself right from with within which to move now what you could do is you could
auction another film and then trade amanda that film ch, you could trade Amanda Gladiator 2 for
Blitz straight up.
Oh, right.
And then Amanda would
take $5 extra.
I thought that that was
what was being offered.
You could also, well,
you need an Oscar movie.
I was going to say that
you could draft something
that I want and then
I'm going to go pee.
You guys keep talking.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay. So I right now, I think Dune 2 will get You guys keep talking. Okay. Okay. Okay.
So I right now,
I think Dune 2 will get nominated for Oscars.
I also think Dune 2 will make a hundred million dollars.
So I think I'm like in good state.
So you don't need to do anything.
I actually have like a weird sneaking suspicion that Speak No Evil,
the James McAvoy version of it.
Yeah.
Could be in the black phone zone.
Like it could be like a horror hit. Okay. If they stick the landing phone zone. It could be a horror hit
if they stick the landing on that.
Yeah.
So I have some confidence in that.
But other than that,
I would rather give you Gladiator 2 for Blitz.
I get a surefire Oscar nom,
but do you still...
If you give me Blitz,
you're counting on Challengers
really getting nominated for Oscars then.
Right.
And I think it probably... I think Zendayaendaya well I guess Dune 2 though yeah and I mean it's
you know it's early in the year but you also have to think about it's Luca Guadagnino and and
Jonathan Anderson but also like production design costume design all of that stuff. I think it's going to just look pretty sick.
The thing I probably need, because I need two films that are going to make $100 million.
I do.
You probably will.
I know.
But I also have that opportunity later in the... So I have to get $200 domestic over the course of the two auctions.
Yes.
Oh, so you could wait.
So I could wait.
And I, you know, I feel pretty passionate about Blitz.
I feel pretty passionate about Saoirse Ronan.
I feel really passionate about Harris Dickinson.
Okay. Just, you know, I didn't watch Murders at the End of the World because I didn't really feel
that I need to,
but otherwise,
I'm all in
on what he's selling.
Obviously,
you know,
I mean,
that's the thing.
Widows was, like,
way overlooked at the Oscars.
Sure.
So it might not even be
an Oscar thing for you.
But this is like a World War II movie.
You know,
it's going to be about
perseverance and survival.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, it's going to be
incredibly good. I don't think I want to give it up. to be about perseverance and survival. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's going to be incredibly good.
I don't think I want to give it up.
I'm sorry.
All right.
So you're done then, right?
Still done, yeah.
Okay.
And you now have $375.
And we have to wait for Sean to come back then.
Right.
No, this is a perfect chance for AI, Sean.
He got blown out of the plane.
Okay.
When Sean comes back,
we will be
talking about
John Crowley's
We Live in Time.
Coming up next.
I believe it's coming out
and is a romantic film
between Andrew Garfield
and Florence Pugh.
Oh.
Yeah.
And it's
not much is being said about it.
Okay.
But I think that they've shot it or shooting it. So we've decided not to do that. Yeah. And it's not much is being said about it. Okay. But I think that they've shot it or shooting it.
So we've decided not to do that.
Okay.
She wants to keep Blitz.
Okay.
I now have $375 in an open slot and it's my turn to nominate.
It is.
And I nominated We Live in Time, the John Crowley movie.
Yes.
Supposed to be a very good film.
With Andrew Garfield and Florence Pugh.
Has also been talked about for some Oscars
but nobody knows
anything about it
because they've kept
the log line pretty
much under wraps.
You all know how I
feel about the
wonderful film Brooklyn
directed by John Crowley.
And I think that
Florence Pugh cut her
hair for this but I
don't know.
Florence Pugh cut her
hair?
Yeah.
Or shaved her head.
Shaved her head for it
or something.
Something's going on.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I have $375
and one slot left.
And this is the film
that you want
because you feel
that this will be
the past lives
of 2024.
I think it's,
I think I need something
with a little bit
of Oscar pedigree
and Oscar,
and so like,
while there's a couple
of things here
that I would be like,
yeah, cool.
I'd like that.
There are also
a lot of them are sequels
or a lot of them
are really low-key movies.
Interesting. Okay. I guess I'll, I guess I'll bid $375, right? Unless you don't actually want the movie.
I mean, you have the most money. Yeah. Whatever you bid, it will sit at. Yeah. So, because I'm not likely to take it from you. Right. Even though I'm interested in the movie, for sure. But I can't
draft anything else with my extra money. Correct. So, I'll take it for $375. It just so happens to fall on you to bid.
Yeah.
So $375, we live in time.
Could be a while before we see that one, as I understand it.
I don't even know if we will.
It doesn't have a date.
I'm pretty sure it'll be $24 from what I've heard,
but I don't.
It might be like a fall release.
Good pick, Chris.
Thanks, brother.
I like that.
That's exciting.
It's a chance.
It's the kind of chance we should be taking on this pod.
I won't be taking a chance on my next pick.
I'll just be taking Megalopolis.
Okay.
You are taking a big chance.
For $1.
Absolutely.
Just like Francis Ford Coppola took a chance on himself time and time again.
Mortgaging his home.
Are you now rethinking the Gladiator 2 situation?
No.
Okay.
Do you just want to be back in the game?
No.
I was honestly thinking that $1 is insulting to Francis Ford Coppola.
He could probably use every dollar he could get.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
I'm happy to invert it and put another movie up and get this movie for the rest of my bank account.
I actually don't know what I'm taking next, though.
I was going to look for something slightly more commercial.
Okay.
Mickey 17's commercial prospects, I have no idea.
I'm fairly certain Furious is going to do at least $100 domestically.
Yeah, that sounds right.
So you don't have any... You have a sequel.
So you can get one more sequel here.
Or I could just hold it for next time.
Or you could take Den of Thieves 2, Pantera.
I just can't believe you didn't take it.
I can't believe you didn't take it.
I can't...
I love Den of Thieves,
but I got Dune 2,
and I got Gladiator 2.
What does Pantera mean?
You want to trade me Gladiator for...
Why don't you just accept the fact
that it's just like Phil Anselmo
is what it means? Is that... But is that what they're referencing? I don't... I think it's like a code... I don't know. accept the fact that it's just like Phil Anselmo is what it means.
Is that what they're referencing?
I think it's like a code.
I don't know.
What does Pantera, the word, mean?
That's what I'm asking.
It's just like Panthers?
It's going to be something very different than that.
What does it mean?
The show should actually be what Chris live Googled.
It's a leopard.
It's a panther.
Okay.
Panther.
And you didn't take it? what Chris Leibkuhl It's a leopard. It's a panther. Okay. Yeah. Panther. Yeah.
And you didn't take it.
I just think that like when Christian Guttegest
is like
I will name my second
Den of Thieves
called Pantera
I don't want to
sully that idea
with money.
I understand.
The only money
I'm going to spend
on this film
is when I go see it
45 times
in one weekend.
And I'm not going to
go see it 45 times
but I'm going to buy
45 tickets.
I think, in theory,
three of my movies will be out before the next auction.
Depending on what happens with Mickey 17.
In a good way or a bad way.
Maybe even four.
We do it in July?
July 1st.
Coppola said Megalopolis will be out in, quote,
a few months.
Who's putting it out?
Unclear.
Okay.
Is he just going to go like
I'm just going to
pay what you will
on my website?
My interpretation of that
was that it will be at Cannes.
Okay.
Okay.
No, we'll be auctioning it off
in real life here
on the big picture.
He's going to come and do it.
He's going to talk to
the studio executives.
He's screening it one time
here at Spotify.
That'll be it
in our screening room.
Dolby surround sound.
But I'm saying that because I'm wondering whether I should be trying to take a movie that's coming out soon so that I can figure out what I'm missing.
I really want to see Civil War.
I haven't seen Civil War.
I don't think Civil War is going to make $100 million domestically.
Yeah.
But I want to believe that Civil War will be great.
I don't think it's going to be an Oscar movie either.
It's going to be in that tweener zone of like good reviews.
Yeah.
Came out in April. People liked it. It to be an Oscar movie either. It's going to be in that tweener zone of like, good reviews. Yeah. Came out in April.
People liked it.
It made $81 million domestically.
And it's a success, but it doesn't hit any of the triggers that I've set for myself.
So forget that.
I'm just going to take Nosferatu.
I'll take Nosferatu for $1.
And I'll revert the remaining $345 as a sign of respect to the great Francis Ford Coppola
from Megalopolis.
Does that seem reasonable?
Yeah, that seems right.
Okay.
Nosferatu, Robert Eggers' new adaptation
of the famed vampire story
starring Lily-Rose Depp,
who's CR's absolute favorite actress of all time
based on his feedback on the series The Idol,
which is a show you liked a lot.
Yeah, I thought it was good.
I was in Idol Gang for the show you liked a lot. Yeah I thought it was good. I was on I was in
Idol Gang.
I know you were.
For the first one and
a half episodes and I
was like I see what
he's doing.
Yeah.
I get this.
And you see what I'm
doing you see what
Sam's doing.
I saw what you were
doing from moment one
which is uh
edgelording your way
to a take and it
worked.
It's not how I do
things.
In that case it was I
say that out of love.
It's like when I this
is like when I stand in front of like a great piece of art at the Philadelphia Art Museum I say that out of love it's like when I this is like when I stand
in front of like
a great piece of art
at the Philadelphia Art Museum
and I close my eyes
and I let it hit me
and then I come out
with my take
and I'm like
Cy Twombly is this
you know
that's how I felt
about the idol
I didn't check with anyone
to see if it was cool
if I felt that way
didn't want to be part
of group think
you know
sorry for just being a fucking thought leader if I felt that way. Didn't want to be part of group think.
Sorry for just being a fucking thought leader.
Sometimes it's hard to be on the band
of culture.
This is a show that was
racked by allegations
of improper conduct on set
and that was
quite literally bankrupt.
I'm just reading the text.
I'm not reading all that stuff.
I'm just a new critic. Capital N not reading all that stuff. I'm just, I'm just a new critic.
Capital N,
capital C,
you know?
Yeah,
you are.
You are certainly a new critic
like we've never seen before.
I believe that you,
we all
were together
the night before
the finale
of the Idol
premiered,
which was just like
a really different energy
from you
from episode one,
side-twambling your way
through new criticism. Just driving. And it was just like, I am energy from you from episode one side-twambling your way through new criticism.
And it was just like
I am backed into a corner.
Yeah.
Like I am stuck here.
You were Sam Elliott
in A Star Is Born
pulling out of
Bradley Cooper's driveway.
He was beautiful.
For three and a half episodes
he was beautiful.
He was just like
I don't know what I'm going to do
but I gotta.
I think the real ones out there
are Idol Gang.
The real ones?
Yeah.
So we got,
we're done.
Yeah, we're done.
We all got our five.
We broke a few eggs to get there,
but I think we actually
wound up in some cool movies.
I agree.
Look at you,
Mr. Positivity.
I agree.
Well, Chris,
given that wave of positivity,
why don't you read your slate?
I got Dune Part 2 for $243. I got We Live in Time, which is the John Crowley film with Andrew Garfield and Florence Pugh, very little is known about, but it's being tipped for Oscars.
I got Gladiator 2 for $380. I got Speak No Evil, James Watkins' remake of one of my favorite horror movies of the century with James McAvoy and Mackenzie Davis.
And Horizon, Kevin Costner's Western epic.
Horizon Part 1.
An American saga.
And I should say...
Horizon colon an American saga dash part 1.
One thing that we will be able to say when we get to the end of 2024
is that Hollywood is doing great work in the colon subtitle part
of the movie naming business.
I agree.
And like somewhere,
Jack Warner and Louis B. Mayer
and David O. Selznick are like,
it wasn't all for nothing.
We did something here.
Because they call it
Den of Thieves Pantera.
And he called it
Horizon An American Saga.
And he called it
Rebel Moon Part 2 The Scargiver.
And those are
these are an important
stat.
That's good stuff.
You know what's one of the
most disappointing titles
of 2024?
Just
Hunger Game
The Ballad of Songbirds
and Snakes.
That's another good example
of what you're describing.
No, Inside Out 2.
They're just calling it
Inside Out 2?
Yeah.
What should they call it?
Pantera?
It's pretty good. Amanda, you want to read your films um yes did you ever see hunger hunger games the ballad of song for instincts
where were you on that did you know i honestly thought it was one of the worst movies thank you
thank god i've really that i feel really bad too, because it's not like... I had a crisis. I was just like, this is absolute trash that I'm watching.
And everyone was like, oh, what beautiful songs.
It was on that day when Amanda's title of Gen Z Mommy was revoked full time.
I think that that was before she even got the title.
It's probably true.
But all the December recordings are a blur.
Yeah.
Okay.
My movies.
I got Challengers, my most anticipated film of the year for 150 got maxine for 75 i got blitz for 385 i got twisters for
350 and i got the bike riders for 40 uh okay i got in a carryover hitman which we didn't talk
about at all but is uh the gl the Glenn Powell starring and co-written.
Do you see this?
I haven't seen it yet.
New feature film from Richard Linklater,
which is coming to Netflix at some point this year.
I got Mickey 17, the recently delayed but hopefully coming out
Bong Joon-ho film from Warner Brothers starring Robert Pattinson.
I got Furiosa, a Mad Max saga for $375.
I got Megalopolis, the two decades in the making Francis Ford Coppola film for $345.
With Adam Driver.
With Adam Driver.
And I got Nosferatu, Robert Eggers' new reimagining of the vampire story starring Bill Skarsgård
and Lily Rose Depp for $1.
Feel good?
Yeah.
I mean, what a twisting journey to get here, though.
Many twisters.
A trade.
Accusations of crying.
Talking about whether or not earthquakes are real.
Yep.
And the erotic nature of women describing Trader Joe's recipes.
AR-12 but earthquakes, I think, is a strong lane for you.
I think that there is a lot of meat on that bone, if you know what I mean.
Kind of a protein plate's full.
Yeah.
Tectonic plate's full.
Wow.
Wow.
Yeah.
So a protein tectonic plate.
That's the name of your show.
Yeah.
I see it.
Tectonic protein plates.
That's really good for SEO.
Everybody can spell all those words.
It's not the San Andreas fault, you know?
You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. Yes yes i do fauci or san andreas it hasn't happened
they keep talking about the big one you know yeah why is that who decided that
who decided there is a fault in san andreas earthquakes i'll tell you this. Maybe San Andreas is without falling.
I think there's a lot here.
Yeah.
I'm really,
I like being,
I think we both like being, I think all three of us
like being present
for when it strikes.
Yeah.
For when it hits.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
When it's like Chris,
he's emerging from
the chrysalis again
and he is a butterfly
once more.
Yeah.
I just think that people
would be like,
oh God, did you feel that one? And I'm just like, nope. Don't know what you're talking about. again and he is about a butterfly once more yeah i just think that people would be like oh god did
you feel that one and i'm just like nope don't know what you're talking about that was a real
roller it's like no i was chilling i was chilling when i'm giving your eulogy when i tried to stretch
yesterday i i seriously almost tore my fucking hip flexor. What did you do? I was just following this guy on YouTube.
Yeah, okay, that's it.
You gotta vet the videos.
And then I realized he's reversed,
right? So every time
I'm trying to mirror him,
because of the camera lens,
it is kind of like megalopolis.
Are you okay?
Yeah, I'm fine. Actually, I thought
what I thought was this is what it feels like to release your hips yeah right but to clear them we got
to get you out of the fairway yeah i'm gonna get you swinging that stick that's not um but
then i was like oh now they're now they're seizing now they're not released they're back in jail
um okay let's get out of this prison of takes we're gonna go to my conversation with Jake Johnson now
Jake Johnson is here
Jake I don't know if you remember this
but
me and Chris Ryan
yes
talked to you and Joe Swanberg six years ago in Austin about Win It All.
And why did it take this long for you to do a solo movie, to direct a film by yourself and get into this solo?
Yeah, it's a solid question. With Joe, a lot of it was this great partnership, which I really liked. I really like having partners. I
like the distribution of power. I like being able to do certain things and then also leave.
And what was great about Joe is a lot of the creative stuff we could talk and a lot of the
technical stuff he could take over and we could kind of push things around. I did another movie
with Trent O'Donnell, which we had the same kind of structure with Ride the Eagle.
And then the problem with Self Reliance for me really was
it's such a specific tone,
and it was a tone that I really wanted it to be.
So this is the tone that I like.
And I wanted it to be for this specific movie.
I never need to make another movie of this tone,
but I couldn't have another director that we were,
they were directing, but I was given a lot of opinions, and then I couldn't have another director that we were, they were directing,
but I was given a lot of opinions. And then I was telling other actors about the tone.
I'm okay to give notes. I'm okay to be really passionate about my character.
That's overstepping the lines. So like with Joe, with like Iceland Debrez in that movie,
I never talked to her about the tone of the love story, even though I did a lot of the writing for that movie,
that's Joe's job. But if it's, I'm in a scene with Joe, we're doing that together now.
So with self-reliance, I was like, I couldn't have a director come in talking to Biff Whiff, who's playing James and me not saying, no, no, no, he's perfect. Just everybody leave him alone.
Nobody say anything. He's, uh, He's tonally and he's perfect.
So how do you describe what that tone is that you landed on?
With Self Reliance.
With Self Reliance, it's a stoner thriller.
We just landed on that before.
Each moment takes itself very seriously while not taking itself seriously at all
but everybody's playing everything as real as they can
so it is very light hearted
it is ridiculous
it is meant for fun
but the characters in it
I never want anybody playing as if now we're in a funny movie
or now we're in a thriller movie
or look at me ain't I cute
so everybody in it
when I watch the movie, I believe everybody.
I believe Gaeta as Charlie.
I'm not seeing Gaeta in that moment.
Even the version of Andy being Andy, I'm believing that version.
So I see it as very realistic in a lighthearted, ridiculous movie.
When I was watching the movie, I was kind of worried about you.
Thank you.
I really, when I learned that it was written during the COVID lockdown
I wasn't surprised
but I was hoping you can kind of tell me
where you were at in your life
when you were doing this
and what spurred this on for you at this stage of your life
well the original idea came from a Japanese reality show
so Japanese reality shows
I think in the late 90s started really pushing it
and getting really wild
and there was one where there was a guy,
they took a comedian who won the contest. He didn't know what he was doing. They put him in
an apartment, took off all his clothes. There was no food. There was no clothes. There was cameras
bugged everywhere. And the only way he could cover himself with clothes or eat was to get coupons or
win things from like radio ads. And he lost it. And the more he lost it, the funnier it
was for the audience. And that show really pushes it in a way that I wish I could have with mine,
with the budget. But at the end of that, they bring him out in front of a huge live studio
audience. And he's in a box where he doesn't know where he, he thinks he's on set and they lift it.
And there's a packed room of people cheering and he's having a
breakdown he doesn't know what is real but to them you know he's their favorite character and so i
loved that idea i love that feeling but i don't want to make a dark psychological thriller that's
just that it sounds like old boy yeah it's like it's like old boy in a game show yes mixed with like the truman show yeah yeah and i was like that feeling of uh i
think i'm in the wrong place here is a really fun story engine and then when i saw the movie jacob's
ladder i was like this is a perfect movie for me i love it but if i'm going to do it, I want it funnier and lighter. And I like a love story.
I like lightness.
I like ridiculous characters.
So in my kind of head, I was putting a Jacob's Ladder and a Bottle Rocket,
seeing if I could mush that together for a tone.
I had it as a limited series.
I pitched it to Netflix during New Girl.
They passed.
They had Maniac at the time time and they said this was too similar
and too much smaller than that.
It was kind of a cool pass.
They said like,
the spend we're doing on that
will never do on yours too.
And I was like,
I mean, thanks for showing me
how the sausage is made.
I don't like how this one's turning out.
But I thought that was cool.
Maniac is cool,
but I like what you did.
But it's different.
But I could see how it's like you can't do like
from the place who brought you Maniac
and also Maniac.
A little more normal version of Maniac.
Yeah, but still basically Maniac.
And coming up next year,
a few more shows that are honestly basically Maniac.
So when you get a pass like that,
are you, you've been doing this a long time,
are you deeply discouraged? Are you like, no problem, there've been doing this a long time, are you deeply discouraged?
Are you like, no problem,
there's going to be another place for it.
Like what happened?
How do you refashion it?
Somewhere in the middle.
So it's definitely not whatever.
But it's also definitely not,
I don't believe an executive, an agent, a studio,
a cool director can derail your career. So a pass is a pass,
but it's not the end. And so what I really feel, I almost feel this like baseball where it, it's
embarrassing to strike out in front of everybody to end it. And it sucks. Especially if you get
like, if you like swung and it wasn't close and you go like what was that a curve and he was like yeah it was a curve
yeah you saw correctly you just missed buddy yeah uh but i also firmly believe you're going to come
back up to the plate so i put that away at the time i didn't want to pitch it all around town
from the response they got they were really warm i thought they were going to buy then they didn't
i've pitched and missed so many times uh with different show idea and movie ideas that it's a whole dance you have
to go through and it's part of your job you take like you know three weeks and you pitch everywhere
and i just at that time i was working in tv i had other movies going as an actor i was like i don't
want to do the dance right now so then i put it aside aside. It lived in my little dorky Jake's writing folder.
You know, the desktop writing folder.
Not cool.
A lot of unfinished, a lot of medium ideas.
What if Mario Brothers was a drama?
I mean, they kind of sort of did that this year, a little bit.
Kind of, sort of.
You know, just like little seeds.
Seeds.
Who are you in this equation you're Mario or Luigi
always Luigi
Luigi yeah
come on
we got Luigi energy
who wants to be Mario
all that responsibility
for what
fixing the same pipes track
splitting the money
it's a family business
that's a good point
it's always better
to be number two
yeah of course it is
and then the pandemic hit
and I was actually writing
a movie that joe and i had talked about doing together and i was just doing another draft of
it it was something i had written he was interested and we were trying to figure out if we could make
it and i was sitting up in a cabin with my family and it was you know two months in and i thought
i'm never gonna make this movie I'm just writing to work.
And then I was looking through Jake's writing folder,
and I saw this old idea that had had, you know,
probably 100 pages of notes.
So this was not entirely born conceptually out of being locked down.
Because it feels like the kind of thing that a person,
the paranoia
the anxiety
the you know
everything you're bringing
to the story
the reason I said
like at that time
when I wrote it
I felt like
oh I think I could
actually get this made
was because of that era
and then because of
Squid Game
so all of a sudden
I was like
ooh
these things
that have just happened
a game comes out of
a TV show
comes out of South Korea where comes out of south korea where it's
really dark but it's how far will human beings go to entertain others and to win money but i thought
squid game would have said uh first hurt us so i had written scenes in there where the family
asked tommy and they say like so the game is like Squid Game, did all this stuff.
We shot it and then put it in front of an audience and realized we didn't need it.
And then during the pandemic, I was like,
well, I'm missing everybody.
We're all paranoid that there's something outside
that can kill us.
But, you know, I was up near Yosemite during that
for a lot of it.
And that up there, it's really divided.
So I would have a mask on and goggles and some neighbor
guy up there who would be out taking his dog for a walk 800 feet away and then he would walk by and
go like don't worry friend your pandemic will go as soon as they get rid of trump and i would think
like how could we see this like nice guy i know the guy i like him yeah and i'm not somebody who's
if their politics are different than me i like this dude how could we see something that i think is life
and death so differently and then with each thing of news it would come up i would go down rabbit
holes online and i would go you know what's interesting is this and i would have friends
say to me maybe get some sleep and i'm like me maybe you get some sleep. And I'm like, me?
Maybe you get some fucking sleep.
And then I would have other friends who would say,
you know, I saw two town cars just driving around under a helicopter, and I would say to them, maybe get some sleep.
And I was like, oh, these themes are right here, man.
But part of what's so great about the execution of the movie
is that you didn't do it the way that you sounded like
you were originally pitching it which is that it's just not clear yeah what's real and what's not
yeah there is an elusive quality to the story until we get very very far along so i mean obviously i
assume you feel like that was like good fortune serendipity that it took this long to get to the
go from a series to a screenplay.
The series still had that same feeling. It still had that feeling.
Okay.
So my version, and it's really funny going through,
this movie has now been, we made it a year and a half ago.
We went to South by Southwest.
We did a bunch of screenings, talked to a bunch of people.
What I've really learned, at least for me,
is how different everybody likes movies
and what we all like about entertainment.
And I'm really realizing that I formed my opinions in the 90s.
Right.
So what does that mean?
It means for me, the idea of being unclear, the idea of open-endedness,
the idea of even, you know, segments could be a little bit choose your own adventure.
It's how you take it.
It's fun for me.
While we were doing this, we found over and over more and more people were saying segments could be a little bit choose your own adventure. It's how you take it. It's fun for me.
While we were doing this,
we found over and over more and more people were saying how they wanted more answers.
And if they're coming to a movie,
they're not saying teach me anything,
but if I'm going to give you 90 minutes,
you have that figured out.
And so there were a lot of stuff that I originally really like about something
that I'd realized like,
Oh,
I have to change that a little bit.
Interesting.
And it's been interesting.
So does that mean like,
because you have an appreciation for David Lynch
or Steven Soderbergh or something,
that you feel more comfortable in a storytelling mode
than like somebody who's 23 does?
No, I'm not making that statement.
But I will say that when I'm watching stuff,
I like every kind of different movie and
there's not a type of thing that i like so there are certain things that i watch like for example
uh i love astral weeks by van morrison i love kid a i don't always want kid a but at the right time
kid a is just right yeah and i did feel a little bit like this that while there were certain things
i was doing in the movie i was realizing like oh you want a certain album here you want a certain
thing here and i'm close to it and i realized like oh if i were to do it again which i'm not
going to direct for a while but if i were to do it again my experiment would possibly be to make a very by the number like movie like a romantic
comedy that is one thing and see how that feels going and doing a press tour for it because in
doing the press tour for this uh it's been a it's been fun but i'm like well the fun of it even when
i pitched it when i got financing i said it's j's Jacob's Ladder meets Bottle Rocket.
And they said, I don't know what that is.
I haven't seen either of those movies.
Oh, you haven't?
No, I'm saying, did people say that to you?
No, they would say, I don't see how those two mix.
And my response would be like, same.
And that's why I think it's worth making the movie.
Right, right.
Because I agree.
I like that weird mix in one scene.
And why I say Biff Whiff is the perfect tone of this movie
is I 100% believe in him.
I believe that could be a dude without a home.
While he's in the scenes in backgrounds,
like during the intervention,
he's just reacting like it's really happening.
And he's just in it.
And for me, I'm like, oh, he's just perfect.
There's something else about the story, though,
that feels not ripped from your life.
You're a parent.
You got a family.
You got kids.
And this is like a very lonely, desolate person.
It's not a personal story, to be honest.
And he feels, you know, you're meant to believe,
at least for a while, that there's a delusion
that is kind of wrapping him.
And then his family identifies.
Yes.
This has been a theme in his life.
And it comes when he has these low moments.
Yeah.
He starts making stuff up to get a little bit of a boost.
And it might have been cute in high school.
But come on, man.
We're just not going down the road this time.
So where does that guy come from?
Is it just born out of that delusion that you're talking about with the town cars and the helicopters?
Or is there more to it that you saw? You know people. You've seen this. I mean, all of that delusion that you're talking about with the town cars and the helicopters or is there more to it that you saw you know people you've seen this i mean all
that started from that japanese i mean really where it all started was comedically back in the
day with the guys i went to high school with and we started doing comedy together putting a character
in a corner and the rest of that while we're all doing bits and staying up all night if somebody
says something everybody going like well you're, you're lying. You're lying.
And then you're forced to go, no, I'm not.
And then they go, yeah, yeah.
And you put somebody in a comedic corner
and they have to weasel their way out.
That's always just been really funny to me.
So the real thing about it was not Tommy's.
Look, all the characters I play, I do connect to
because I'm the one playing them.
The rhythm and
the tone it'll go you'll always see a connection from Nick Miller to everything I do because
that was the first huge job I ever had and it's the most hours I've ever done anything and I
improvise a lot so there will always be a connection through but the reality of it is is
I don't experience what he has I You know this when you have kids.
I would love to be lonely.
Yeah.
I do cherish my lonely moments.
When my kids go to college, believe me, I'll sing another song of victimhood where I'll be.
But as of now, I'm like, I can't think of the last time that it was like, I really miss people.
Even in the pandemic,
I would talk to friends who were single
who were like, I'm having a hard time, man.
I'm by myself.
And I go like, what are you doing?
And they're like, you're not going to believe it, man.
I'm 38 years old.
I just smoke weed and play video games.
I'm like, oh, fuck's sake.
I want that so bad.
I'm literally trying to teach math.
That is really, that is really, really crazy.
I want to go back to the the Nick Miller thing
you were saying though
because
you hear this a lot
from a lot of actors
who are on
long running series
where at the end of that series
especially one like this
which is like
people have a huge relationship
to New Girl
like they
so many people have watched
that series now
they're still watching it today
which is awesome
which is really cool
but then
you can become defined by that
that becomes the only thing
that people want you for
you know I feel like with your film work
it has been certainly in the vein
of like a persona that you've pursued
but it is feels like materially different
from whatever TV work that you have done
like do you have a consciousness about that
are you trying to break an expectation
no not at all
I actually think it's different
I think when we were coming up
the way TV used to be
that if you played a big character,
it was really hard to break.
And all the characters from like the perfect strangers type shows that,
I mean,
I loved.
Cheers.
I did not want to see Cliff Clavin in anything besides Cliff Clavin.
Yeah.
Because I knew Cliff and I loved him.
But back then,
what'd they make like 20 movies a year and there were four networks?
Yeah. And it was pre-cable.
So the catch now is I actually think it's the opposite.
I think it's not that it hurts you.
I think that it helps you because because of New Girl,
I can go off and make a weirdo movie like Self Reliance,
and that base will come and try.
I can start a podcast, and in the first couple weeks,
we didn't have any
listeners. And I was like, well, another weirdo one from old Jakey J. You know what? Guys, nobody
feel bad. It's like baseball. If we get four out of 10, we're the best of all time. And then we do
an episode with Lamorne Morris. And it's a really funny one. It's a great caller. The woman was a
cat sitting, spent the whole time, masturbated the entire time while she was a cat sitting for some people. And you know, a therapist,
a woman you would not expect, but she's like, you know, I have a roommate. So I was like, you know,
watching videos about power dynamics, masturbating in the living room openly. And then she goes,
and then the last day I saw that they had a cat cam. And so, you know, great call, like right in the wheelhouse
of what I want that show to be not serious problem in terms of like divorce or life and death, but
very serious to her. And Lamorne was our third, our guests on that one. And the new girl audience
came out for that one. And then a lot of them stayed. And so because of that, we now have a huge base
and we're able to do this other show.
And people will say,
it feels like Nick Miller's got an advice show.
Well, for me, I just honestly feel like,
fuck, man, thank you guys for coming.
I didn't start working as an actor until my late 20s.
So I was on stages in New York.
I've told this story before,
but my buddy Oliver and I had a two-man show.
At the time in New York, they were really cleaning up Times Square. So they took all the porn
theaters and barely cleaned them. But there'd be like an old theater with 60 seats that were now
empty. No dancers, you know, nobody in them anymore. But you're right in Times Square above
like a porn shop. Go to the second floor. There's a beautiful theater.
So they started renting them out to actors and improvisers and said like,
for 60 bucks, you guys have it.
You take the entire door.
So we went out and we had a two-person improv show.
And we handed out flyers all throughout the village, all throughout Times Square.
Our big Friday night show told everybody we knew.
Literally no one showed up.
Not even because we had done so many shows.
It was one of those nights that like all of our friends had seen it
of like a few weeks before and the math worked out that it was zero.
And it was my buddy Oliver and I and we were all geeked up,
like stretching in the back going like, got your back, brother.
And the lighting guy came and said, it's five minutes past eight.
Nobody, zero seats.
What do you guys want to do?
And Oliver and I looked at each other, and we've talked about it a lot since,
but we said, well, we came here to do the show.
We're going to do the show.
And we did it hard, and we went for it. And afterwards, we both had to admit the show we're gonna do the show and we did it hard and we went for it
and afterwards we like both had to admit like we learned a lot we are going to do it if they're
here they're not here and so when they continue to show up for me especially this period I'm
having it as I'm getting older I'm like I appreciate it and if it's because of a connection
that new girl meant something to you, fucking thank you.
Whatever it is, like we're still doing this dance.
And so I don't think it's a hindrance.
I think it is the best thing that could happen to you.
When you were in doing that show with Oliver.
Yes.
The Midwesterners.
In the back of your mind, were you like,
one day I'm going to Hollywood and I'm going to be a movie star?
No.
What was the thing you wanted to be?
A TV actor.
TV actor was the goal.
A comedic TV actor.
I wanted to be somebody that people watched on TV and brought them joy and they thought that dude's really funny.
And I wanted it to be like the way I loved my family growing up.
We were a TV family. Like to this day, I like movies, but I'm not like, when we get
together, I like to have wine and talk about the greatest classic films of all time. I'm just not
that guy. You know, and I've had friends who have gone through the phase being like, you haven't
seen this. Mike Serra is a friend. Every once in a while, he used to send me DVDs and just say,
just watch these. He's an insane cinephile.
Just watch these. He's like, you can't be doing what you're doing and not know it. And I'd be
like, I'll watch those if you watch the Wonder Years season four.
That's really funny though, because I do feel like self-reliance is kind of cinematic in a way
that maybe you wouldn't expect from somebody who would say what you just said. But we get into that like did you have a moment maybe say season four of new girl where
you're like i did exactly what i set out to do like is there any kind of like crisis that sets
in or or you're just like i'm just happy to be doing this and just keep going no when you're in
it it never uh the way people are responding to it now is not the way they responded while we were
doing it okay so it's different so when we, it started in season one popped, right?
And Zoe was, those billboards were everywhere and all, we went from nothing to something.
But for myself, it was really overwhelming and I was not matched.
I was not ready for it.
I wasn't mature enough.
I didn't get it.
I couldn't memorize all those lines.
I was like really, like really mourning weed and being like,
but if I shoot on Wednesday and Thursday, when do I get to smoke pot?
And I was like, oh, I'm a child.
And none of them work because you just have to grind and work.
And every, you know, every, we were doing a ton of press.
That summer, after that first year, I did a movie called Pretty One, I believe, and Drinking Buddies.
That's a classic.
Love that.
Great one, yeah.
Then the second year, when we came back, the TV show got even more hype.
Then those movies started coming out.
Then we were doing press.
And then I got Let's Be Cops for that next summer.
So it was just kind of going.
I think we did the Super Bowl season two or season.
It was just getting crazy.
And then the audiences and critics, the critics first, turned on the show.
And it was somewhere around the beginning of three.
We used to go to all the award shows.
We would be like the nerdy TV cast at like the Globes, you know,
and like that second balcony.
Zoe and Max were Emmy nominated.
I believe Liz Merriweather was for the writing.
If not, she should have been.
But we were like one of those shows.
And then overnight we weren't.
And overnight we were that show on Fox.
That's definitely not like a cool like NBC show. And I was like, ooh, how were that show on Fox. That's definitely not like a cool NBC show.
And I was like, ooh, how'd that happen?
And you feel it, where you're like, oh, that cool group of actors who I'm not friends with.
Well, last time, I did a cool bro handshake with them.
And now they're doing it with somebody else.
And I was like, fuck them anyhow.
But there is something different.
And then all we heard week to week is how we were like hemorrhaging numbers.
And then by then, we all knew how to look at the ratings.
And that was pre-streaming.
It would just drop and drop.
And a certain number, we thought, if you get there, it's over.
We would get below.
And then we had another year.
They would give us another chance.
And Fox really tried
but we were canceled and we we did not do on that show it didn't you know like when a loved show
goes off the air they all go on like leno yeah and they all sit in director's chairs and go like
well when lemur showed up and the audience goes nuts no No talk shows for the cast of New Girl. We had our final season.
We had an eight episode season seven.
Contractually, we all had to agree to it
because you don't do eight in TV.
But Fox, after Zoe, Liz, and I wrote like a letter
saying like, there are fans who care.
Fox was really cool and said like,
we agree and we've loved the show,
but it wasn't a loved show
and then it finished and whatever and then a whole new generation found it on Netflix
and they adopted it as their own so looking back at it now I'm more like great. But in it, it felt like we were, if we were a sports team,
we were trying to get like a wild card spot.
Yeah.
Well, what you described is that feeling of like going to the Super Bowl
in your rookie season and then you think it's always going to be like this.
And then something happens.
Yeah.
And I'll tell you, what didn't happen was any change from within.
Uh-huh.
Because we were like, we're still doing the same show.
And then what we have found in years past
is people go like,
there's not a drop-off for the audiences,
but all the critics universally changed at the same time.
And I'm like, what happened?
What happened in your guys' view
between season two and season three
that isn't happening with people?
So, okay, there's a couple things unpacked there
and it's all related to where you're at right now i think i think ultimately maybe what happened
to the show is what happened to every show on linear television which is like numbers were
going down because netflix was coming to then ultimately re-air other shows that people
ultimately would like because they weren't watching tv the same way but if you felt like
nothing creatively changed and this applies maybe to everything you've ever
done because you've been in big movies that haven't worked you've been in big movies that
have worked you know you've made your own stuff that has been smaller that has been acclaimed and
other small stuff that maybe hasn't gotten as much attention as you want it yes so is it just
that there's like thank you for not saying not acclaimed i was waiting for the bit you can be
in some small stuff you've been acclaimed you've done some small stuff that a lot of people hate, my man.
I'm not here to hurt you.
Yeah, you're very classy.
It was set up for a great mean joke, though.
No, no, no.
That's not my style.
Rhythmically, you had me.
Nevertheless, is it just people are fickle and it's hard to find stuff?
Like, what is it?
People change their minds because it's cool to change your mind?
Like, what happens? I don't know. I will I will say, uh, I don't think it's people are
fickle. I do think there's a little bit of weird magic. Uh, I think that there are certain things
that hit at certain times. You don't know why. I think there are certain times that like,
you know, people as a group don't like things or they don't like things for a reason and then they like it later or they like it now and then they hate it later and uh what i i will say i don't try to chase
and understand that because i am also the audience and there's times when everybody loves something
and then i'm feeling like i hate it now and i I don't know why. And so circle and what this town is trying to make
and what we really celebrate
and what we do that all the critics
and all the town loves.
And we all know like,
man, you're making the good stuff.
And then there's this other thing
and that is going after audiences
and making audiences really happy.
And I think I have been thinking in the back of my head,
I kind of want to make sure the town is happy and it's cool.
And as I'm getting older, I'm just having more and more like,
you know, if we're just performers, which is what we are,
we're going town to town like they used to.
We get on stage, We perform for the people.
They pay us.
Okay.
Forgive the direct nature of this question, but is that because you're not broke?
Yeah, probably.
Because that's an interesting thing.
Wait, no.
I take no.
I think it's the opposite.
No, because here's why.
The more money is now coming for people who are going direct to audience.
The YouTube kids and the podcasters are making so much more money than some writer who's get a development deal at NBC and has a great idea
and then goes, yeah, that could be, they could be doctors. But for you as that 90s person with
that 90s sensibility, did you need to get over some sort of line or something i think
about i mean i relate to what you're saying but from the 90s if you remember when like johnny
depp was young and cool and we were all like you know chubby and dorky and being like i too could
wear makeup and people would think i was cool i could also wear nine bracelets and then i would
and my brother would be like what are you doing and i'd be like what do you mean i've always worn 40 bracelets and eyeliner while while eating a quarter pounder
with cheese yeah you can't eat the way you eat it dressed like johnny but johnny depp used to say
things like you know openly where he'd be like you know one for me one for them and that idea was so cool like you make one for the studios which is
basically then for the audience a goofy whatever something stupid for everybody then the one for
you is a black and white movie with you smoking cigarettes you know drinking coffee in a diner
and we all go like man johnny really acted in that Right. But then the stupid one made it so he had a lot of money and had an island and could
do the black and white one.
That's what I thought the model was.
And now as I'm looking at it and I'm meeting a whole new generation of people who are making
stuff, they're just going to their audience and doing what they want to do.
The audience is into it.
They're selling ads in that space and making a lot of money, making a lot of people happy
and doing exactly what they want to do.
Even if it's not what I want to do, they're doing what they want to do.
And I'm thinking like, well, this idea of one for them, one for me, well, it's all for
the audience and it better be all for you and so I'm like
the thing in my head is changing
where I'm like
well shouldn't like
for example the podcast
we started in our closets
in our bedroom
you should say the name of it
we're here to help
thank you very much
you're not only a nice guy
but you're also a god damn professional
I'm at least a professional podcaster
because you're a professional we're competition but we're not we're not we a nice guy, but you're also a goddamn professional. I'm at least a professional podcaster.
Because you're a professional.
We're competition, but we're not.
We're not.
We're both on Spotify.
That's right.
Guess what?
You know what somebody said to me about the podcast world, which was really cool?
Because when I started getting into it, the way I kind of like to do everything is I like to find people doing it and then pick their brains on it.
And I like being the younger brother in a situation. And the podcast world has said that you're not trying to reach people who don't like
podcasts because you're not going to. You're trying to reach people who already like podcasts,
who after they're finished listening to theirs, wouldn't mind a different one too.
And you're like, oh, that's how I am. The good news about that is that
10 million people have a podcast. So the audience is potentially very large. Or you're still playing
in the same pool and 9,900,000 have their friends listening or they're doing the show that I did
where nobody's listening. You're making a podcast. Right. But there are a lot of those. I think a lot
of those numbers are a hundred people.
Yes. If. Yes. And that's in a month or two months. And so you go like, oh, and I don't actually have
judgment for it because that's what I did. But your show has, well, it's interesting. I'm
fascinated by the 2023 you had in general, because you basically had all of the things that you just
described. You've got this carry over of all the things that you've done before that is now on
streaming. So people can discover you anew every day or spend time with you if they want to.
In terms of like the old New Girl shows.
Any TV show you made, any movie you made.
That's just crazy.
They're there.
It's all there.
In a way that it wasn't with Cheers when we were growing up.
A hundred percent.
Where it was like, maybe this is on, you know, in syndication.
Oh, I remember there was like a television museum I heard about in New York that I used
to dream about going to so I could find all the old episodes.
I recorded on a VHS tape over family memories
so that I could record Cheers.
It's like a issue in my family
because they were like two famous VHS tapes.
We didn't have a lot of them.
That was like us in big years.
And I made a conscious choice that I've,
I couldn't do the thing that you would do in a sitcom
where I'd go like, I didn't know.
I thought Cheers was more important than the memories of my siblings and my mother.
So that sounds like the guy from Self Reliance a little bit.
Just going to put that out there.
But then the other things that you have.
So you have all the work that you've done your whole career.
Plus, you've got an independent film that is also technically going to be on a big streaming service that premieres at a festival.
And it'll be connected through New Girl on Hulu.
Exactly. And I guarantee a big reason why Hulu came so aggressively and bought it after South by Southwest is what a great pairing.
Right.
Smart.
It's all synergy, right?
It works together.
To the Jake Johnson fandom.
And Win It All, which Netflix was really aggressive for at that time, was paired very nicely when New Girl was.
So going back to Nick Miller, I'm like, hey guys,
thank you.
It helps.
It helps, man.
But then still,
you have a pod that you start
with a friend
and it's something that I'm sure
is incredibly fun for you to do
and also in theory makes money
and people find it.
And then,
you're also in like
one of the three or four
most beloved movies of the year.
You're still doing
the old thing
that you're talking about
as a voice actor.
Different.
Phil Lord and Chris Miller.
And I'm not saying this as a little kiss-ass.
If those guys called me and said,
we want to make a Backyard Indie
and we want to do it for $250,000.
The reason I call it Backyard Indie
is Ride the Eagle we made for $250,000
in my literal backyard.
We knew doing it. We're not going to make any money. It's not going to be a big hit,
but we just want to make a movie in the pandemic. If they said we want to do that,
that would be a top priority for me. So the fact that it happened to turn into Spider-Verse
is the luckiest break in the world for me. But I was in, I'm in the Phil Lord, Chris Miller business.
I think those guys are not only so beyond in terms of how they think, but their work ethic,
their care. When I talk about going to the audience, they have that in spades. I'm learning
shit because I cared more about gatekeepers. And they were like, who cares about, you have to make
it right. And you have to push and you have
to work and you have to work and grind and grind and people can be mad at you. But it, we have to,
when we give it to the audience, have to be a hundred percent proud of it. Like for example,
in working with them and my movie went to South by Southwest. And I felt like even though Hulu
bought it, there was things I felt like I wasn't done yet. And because of working with those guys, my buddy, Jake Zemanski, who did a directed all jury duty, uh, and Akiva and Andy, I talked to
all them and, and they all kind of basically said the same thing. And that is, well, if you're not
done, then get more money and keep pushing. And I felt like, oh, I never would have done that two
years ago because I don't want to piss off the gatekeepers. I need another chance.
So even if,
if it's,
if it's sports,
if I'm not getting enough playing time,
keep your mouth quiet. Cause you don't want to be a locker room problem.
So with that in mind,
then you said something really interesting,
which is that you were like,
I don't know if I'm ever going to do this again.
And it sounded like directing a movie was what you were referring to.
So why?
Um,
I feel like directing a movie for me,
you have to,
so I love self-reliance.
I love the tone of it.
It's something I've wanted to do is honoring the 19-year-old me.
But for example, when we were at the premiere party,
people were saying like, I was around some Hulu people
and they said like, what's the next one?
And I was around MRC who I really respect
and I loved working with them.
And we have a team.
And we know at this budget, which we made, we're in profit.
Yeah.
So we've won.
Now, how people perceive it, you hope it's great, but in terms of a business, let's do it again.
And then maybe we can go a little bit higher in budget and hopefully sell for a little bit more.
You've now learned some stuff.
We made this in 17 days. What if we gave you 21 days? And then maybe we can go a little bit higher in budget and hopefully sell for a little bit more. You've now learned some stuff.
We made this in 17 days.
What if we gave you 21 days?
What if we actually saved some money for your reshoots now that we know you like it?
And all I could think is like, I married self-reliance.
I didn't date self-reliance.
It's not a mistress.
We're still married.
You're not only talking about like another girlfriend, if this falls apart, you're talking about another marriage. And it feels
insane to me. Is it because it's that hard to do? It's, it takes, so what I'm used to is acting or
podcasting, right? Podcasting is I could jump in for four hours. I
could work really hard. I will not think about it for the rest of the day. I'm ruined forever
because of this job. Because this is, it is, it is so much more fun and easier in its way
than the things I was doing before. A hundred percent. Yes. And, but you can be all, you can
be when you're in, you're in. Yes. And the whole world falls apart. You don't even think to look
at your phone. But the second I leave here, if my wife calls,
I could be transitioned into full-on dealing with a kid meltdown.
And by later tonight, she'll go, what'd you do today?
And I'll go, just the meltdown.
And all of this will be gone.
Yes.
I so relate to this.
But that's also acting if you have the right thing.
And that is, you look at the call sheet.
I'm not there on Tuesday.
I'm going in Wednesday. I like these people. I love the material. I'm here. It's really fun. Now the hours are a little bit more, but great people, great fun. Directing is you're
there from the sun coming up to the sun going down. Then you're the one figuring out the next
day. So when my wife would call and say there's a meltdown i'd go like
what i'm dealing with another meltdown for my fucking sound guy i'm dealing with another baby
but this baby is in props and then i'd have to go like i know you're 57 my king but that's a joke
props and sound were not an issue but it was a it's a different thing and that
movie and that cast and that crew and in prep your whole team and then in production and then in post
that's your group yeah and i was happy that that group was for this movie with these people
i loved it i loved being a director to pick the team. There's not one person I didn't like.
I thought everybody crushed it.
But to start over, it feels as insane to me
as if somebody said to me right now,
I've been with my wife since 2004,
if they said,
so you and your wife are going to be done on Thursday?
And I went, officially?
Yes, it's over.
And it's a success.
Be happy.
You guys had a great marriage.
You produced two kids.
It's a profitable partnership.
And then they said, let's have a meeting on Friday
and set you up with your next wife that you're going to be with
and hopefully have a couple more kids with
and have another great 15-year run with.
But we should start that now because there's good momentum for you.
And my thought is, am I fucking Tommy?
And am I nuts or are you nuts?
Because somebody here is crazy.
And then they go, this is what other directors do.
And I go, it's not my life.
So if it's going to happen, it'll be in a year.
I'll have a really brilliant idea.
Here's another weirdo guy like Nick Miller who gets involved in a weird adventure.
And then some unthinkably cool actress agrees to be my love interest.
And then slowly it'll start building and building.
And then four or five years, I'll say,
all right, I guess I'm ready to date again.
I wonder if that is born out of not being a movie guy with your family as a kid and not being a person who's
like, I waited my whole life to be a filmmaker. And so even if I hated it and it ate my life and
it was an unhappy marriage, I have to keep going. A lot of directors came to me during this. And
when I would be like talking about, you know, something like that, something, you know, like
a little example, they would go, yeah, but you're directing a feature. And for me, when I'm, when I'm on a TV set, when I was on New
Girl, even when people weren't liking it, there would be moments where I could sit there and
we just finished a scene and people are laughing and they're relighting. And I have a bunch of
photos on my phone and I would take a photo from up. So you'd
see the, you'd see like the new girl living room, but then up you're in a soundstage. So then you
see all the beams and the lights. And I was like, I know I'm pissed and grumpy now. This is it.
This is what I'd always thought of, of like, you know, you got to go do ADR. So you're on the back of
like the cart. And then like, there's like people on the lot and you're in like Schmitty wave.
But I was like, that's what I always thought of the Hollywood thing. I always thought
you do that, you get a convertible and you get a pool. And if you move to LA, you come out here,
you're made the whole image I had was you're a fat guy with a mustache from Chicago,
you smoke cigarettes, you drink
beer, you eat bad food, you perform
all the time, you attack the stage like a
bull, that's what Belushi taught us,
that's what Farley taught us, that you
be the aggressor, but you've got
to make your scene partners look good.
That's what the Del Close model was, the Chicago way.
Don't be a fucking stealer.
Don't be a stand-up. Don't be a stand-up.
Don't go up there and just hit your jokes.
You do something different.
You attack like a bull, but you make everybody else good.
Then you get to Los Angeles.
And then all of a sudden, if you hit, you're on a show and you get a convertible
and you're driving through the hills with like a joint
and then you got a house with a pool.
And for me, that was always was always like well that's what happens
it was never you direct a feature film and you're in post-cutting and it's hard but great and you
put the piece the puzzle together and then you go to like the festivals and you go to the i was like
that was never it so that has all been really interesting and really neat and i've learned a ton
but it's insane to think
it's soon. Cause it's a hard, it's a hard job. It's a marathon.
Okay. It might be a while before you're back on this pod then.
Yeah.
You're not making another movie. Um, I, we end every episode of the show by asking filmmakers,
what's the last great thing they have seen. You are a filmmaker for now.
Yes. Yes.
Uh, have you seen anything good? It doesn't have to be a movie. Do you want to talk about Cheers?
What was the last great thing that I've seen?
I realized I had thought I had seen all of The Sopranos,
and I hadn't.
And about nine months ago, I sat down and watched every episode.
Now, it took time, but I was like,
this is a show I have talked about like I know it,
and I've said it's the best.
And I'm like, I think I missed seasons, buddy.
And I sat down and I watched it, and I thought when it ended,
that shit was the best.
It really is the best.
It might be the best. I was like, well, I also did it ended, that shit was the best. It really is the best. It might be the best.
I was like,
well, I also,
I did it during the pandemic
with the Larry Sanders show.
Another show I've claimed to be the best.
And then I realized
when I first started watching it,
because I didn't have cable growing up.
So I'm like,
I don't know when I would have watched this.
And I sat and watched that and thought,
oh, this is so good that one in particular
when I was a kid turned my brain on I was like I didn't know you could do this yeah it's so good
it happened so but when you say like my movie is cinematic and it's got a certain look to it
well I love great tv right so I love tv that has a look to it. Do you know? I love the look of Larry. Larry Sanders is shot beautifully.
So I don't like, when I say I love TV,
I don't love a multicam with really, you know, generic lighting.
I almost did a multicam years ago,
and the big talk I was having with the network
was literally about the lighting.
Because I hate the way they're lit,
where it's just so everyone can see it.
I never want to act in what looks like a target.
It's a fake world.
It's a fake world that's so bright so you can shoot everything.
Like I like shadows.
I like a little darkness.
I like it feeling like a living room.
And so TV that does that,
but that you can keep coming back to these characters.
I feel like I want to,
I know that I want to make something that feels filmic.
I want to do a TV,
a show that feels as rich as an indie movie.
But in success, you can grow with these characters for seven or eight seasons.
That to me feels like a dream.
Jake, thanks for doing the show.
This was great.
Yeah, this was a lot of fun.
Thank you to Jake. Thank you to amanda thank you to chris and of course thank you to our producer bobby wagner in the studio this week later this week amanda and i will dig into all of
us strangers among other things we'll see you then