The Big Picture - The 2024 Oscars: The Year of ‘Oppenheimer’ and Christopher Nolan

Episode Date: March 11, 2024

Sean and Amanda give their immediate reactions to the 96th Academy Awards, which were largely dominated by Christopher Nolan and ‘Oppenheimer.’ They appreciate Jimmy Kimmel’s hosting, admire a barn-burning performance of ‘I’m Just Ken’ by Ryan Gosling, analyze a surprising Emma Stone victory over Lily Gladstone, discuss the increasingly international voting body of the Academy, note the continued cultural power of 'Barbie' (despite winning very little at the awards), and wonder whether this year is a one-off or whether it portends the Oscars telecast making a sustained comeback. Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Senior Producer: Bobby Wagner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Brian Curtis from The Ringer, and I want to tell you about the Press Box podcast. The Press Box is a podcast for anybody who likes news, whether it's about sports or politics or pop culture, and wants to understand how that news really gets made. We have new shows every Monday and Thursday. We have long interviews with everyone from John Krakauer to Joe Buck. Your social media feeds are bursting with information every day. Let us help you sort it out. Join us on the Press Box.

Get groceries delivered across the GTA from Real Canadian Superstore with PC Express. Shop online for super prices and super savings. Try it today and get up to $75 in PC Optimum Points. Visit superstore.ca to get started. I'm Sean Fennessey. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about the 96th Academy Awards. I'm Amanda Dobbins. host. Great monologue. Great kind of moving the show along. Pacing was great. The production choices were for the most part good. We obviously have some notes.

We always have notes. This is the big picture. But a lot more things right than we're wrong. Great speeches. You know, great, great, great musical number, obviously. At least one great musical number. So everything just kind of lined up. Great winners, too.

A few surprises. Not everything was as chalk as we expected. I'm kind of lined up. Great winners too. A few surprises. Not everything was as chalk as we expected. I'm kind of blown away by how quality this Academy Awards was. I've made a point of grousing about the show for the last five or six years. And this felt unusual. I don't want to say it felt like 1997 or whatever we romanticize about the past. But it felt like a show very much in control and under control. And even if we knew that this was all leading towards the Oppenheimer win for best picture,

the Christopher Nolan win for best director, the fact that Oppenheimer was going to win seven awards tonight, there still was something kind of light on its foot about the production in general, kind of good sense of fun, but nothing as overindulgent and kind of drawn out and self-serious as we expect from the show, even though there were serious moments. So I came away just incredibly satisfied with the telecast. It did feel in keeping with the year in movies, last year movies, which was great, right? And like a way better than average group of nominees, best picture nominees, also big picture nominees.

And obviously just a huge year at the movies, The Strike notwithstanding. And, you know, movies are back. And it had that energy. And there was something that everybody could grab onto at the ceremony and get invested in. So, I don't know. It was unusual. You know, we talked a little bit about how this show is meant to start at 7 p.m. Eastern, 4 p.m. Pacific this year, which is an hour earlier. It's also daylight savings time here in America. So a bit of an unusual thing. I was a little skeptical. You were very skeptical. I think now, having seen a telecast that was three hours and 17 or 18 minutes roughly because the show started a little late, this seemed like a very smart choice. I feel like people on the East Coast who are, you know, able to go to bed by 1030 and see the entire Academy

Awards, they must be feeling great right now. I think that's great. Everyone able to go to bed by 10.30 and see the entire Academy Awards. They must be feeling great right now. I think that's great. Everyone getting to go to bed, great, A+. Keeping the show on time, great, A+. We don't know how many people saw the first hour, you know? We do not currently have those numbers as of recording. I was talking to a friend yesterday

who had great plans to like go watch the Academy Awards with her grandparents as she does every year. And I was like, by the way, they start at four. And she was like, oh, I won't be there till 530. So we don't know whether everyone caught up. And Kimmel even made had some jokes to that bit around 530 PST, 830 EST. But in terms of the last hour, and they saved a lot for the last hour, I think I'm Just Ken was like the perfect prime time. What is it? Like 6.30 PST, 9.30 EST. You knew everyone was there. And then rolling in to In Memoriam and the big awards, they got most of it. So whether or not everyone saw the monologue, I hope they did. I thought the monologue was very funny.

I thought so too. Jimmy Kimmel, as we said last week on the show, probably the most reliable hand in hosting in all of television right now, did a very good job. I think actually his tradition of lightly mocking all of the movies played well in a year like this, where there was just a lot of sincere passion

for the movies and there was a lot of positivity around it, that it actually made it for a very balanced show. And, you know, there's also something about the way that he comes out and does the kind of interstitial bits that makes it just feel like you're at a party. And that's like a big part of the hosting job.

And that's something that's been missing in the years where there were no hosts or when there were multiple hosts in the past. You know, these last couple of years, the show has started to feel more like how it did in the pre-COVID times when it was a show. It had somebody who was kind of holding our hand as we went through it.

And it felt particularly helpful in a show that was moving so quickly. It felt like who was kind of holding our hand as we went through it. And it felt particularly helpful in a show that was moving so quickly. It felt like at the end of the show, actually, Kimmel was kind of surprised that they were done. He got to vamp for a minute or two near the end, which you never see from a host. Yes. And also, they did start five minutes late,

which he noted. And you, in particular, were quite perturbed about that. Well, it's just not making such a big deal about starting early and then starting late and like the red carpet is running into a nine minute commercial for hot flashes and fancy feasts. It was like the five commercials between the red carpet and when the show actually started

were just like a very tough referendum on what ABC thinks its Oscars audience is, at least in that first hour. A little scary. That's okay. audiences, at least in that first hour. A little scary. That's okay. Yeah. We were also part of that demographic. I mean, I'm closer to the geriatric set now than I was when I first started, than I am to where I am now when I first started watching the Oscars.

Yeah. So like, you know, that is the audience increasingly. Yeah, that's fine. We're getting older. That's fine. Anyway, but to the point about the pacing, I think they made a lot of decisions

that you and I were like yelling at each other across the room through this show. One of the main things to me that worked really well, you mentioned Kimmel had interstitial bits

and they were smart and short and pre-written. And, but the presenter bits were well chosen, I would say. And so they grouped a lot of categories. So you would present both best documentary short and best documentary together. Or I believe costume design and production design were grouped together. Well, no, actually, I think costume design was by itself because that was John Cena, you know?

And when you've got the goods, literally, in that case, like, you should go with it. But for the most part, there was, like, efficiency in how they were doing the below-the-line categories, and then they only let the presenters who could actually do comedy

try to do comedy, you know? Very wise. And things, like, just didn't roam on and on and on as they sometimes can do in these situations. Yeah, so it made for an unusually brisk and fun show and a handful of critical surprises. You know, as I said, Oppenheimer has been tabbed to win Best Picture for months and months and months.

Same for Nolan. No surprises there. Something started happening at the beginning of the show that I think is really interesting. You know, I think the biggest quote-unquote surprise of the night was Emma Stone beating Lily Gladstone for Best Actress, which wasn't stunning per se since they had been splitting most of the way across the precursors. That was a very close race. It was. And we didn't know what was going to happen, and we tried to read the tea leaves, but it could have gone either way.

So we saw, for example, that Lily Gladstone won at SAG and Emma Stone won at the BAFTAs. That's interesting to me because when we were watching the show, something started happening in terms of the below the line awards. The first one that happened that really jumped out to me was Best Makeup and Hairstyling going to Poor Things. Maestro was favored for months. Kazuhiro has already been awarded twice in that category. The work that he did in that movie is amazing. Maestro might not be able to be recognized in any other category if they don't win there. And in fact, that award went to Poor Things, which not a lot of people had that are in the predictions game. And it started- Neither you nor I had it.

Neither you nor I had it. And we can say right now, you defeated me in our predictions. Yes. I think 18 to 17 out of 23 this year. Right. Okay. However, I did defeat you in a big Oscar spot. I lost the big bet. So we'll get into the details of that later on. But hey, you know, a night for democracy. We can share these victories.

I really would have preferred to win the big bet. Oh, interesting. Well, now I really have to make it, you know, onerous on you. Yeah. But nevertheless, when that makeup

and hair styling award happened, I said it to you in the room. I was like, that's weird. I wonder what that means for Emma Stone versus Lily Gladstone. And then a few other awards happened, production design and costume design. Some people thought maybe Barbie could be awarded in those categories. We didn't. We didn't, but some people did. And in fact, they went to poor things. And then the big one to me

was Best Sound. When Best Sound went to the zone of interest, which is a very unusual and I thought a very smart and worthy choice for an award like that, I think it confirmed a sense of internationalism in the Academy now that feels very, very strong. You forgot one, which was also Boy and the Heron over Spider-Man versus Spider-Man across the Spider-Verse? Correct.

Okay, there we go. And you and I, even when doing the predictions, for Spider-Man versus Spider-Man across the Spider-Verse? Correct. Okay, there we go. You got it. And you and I, even when doing the predictions, you did pick Zone of Interest for sound. I did. I had it written in my document and then went and deleted it and wrote Oppenheimer instead, which I have been thinking about since that happened. You chickened out.

I know, but we even, in that predictions podcast, which I hope people listen to, rather than just copying our sheets on the day of, okay? We work hard, all right? We identified that that was like one of the flex votes. And I even remember you saying,

like, I'm being inconsistent. If I'm going to do Zone of Interest and Sound, I should also do Boy and the Heron in animated feature. I screwed that up. Well, it's okay. Yeah, but it does really,

you're right to say that all of those awards kind of signaled, okay, the much discussed international voting body is once again, just flexing its muscles. It's a very complicated thing. On the one hand, I think it's been amazing for the Academy Awards to become more international,

to shine a light on international filmmakers. We saw it probably most profoundly when Parasite won Best Picture in 2019. That was a great moment. I think Miyazaki winning his second Academy Award and not showing up again, fantastic moment. I do think that there's something interesting going on where the Academy may quietly, in a way that they would never admit, may have overcorrected slightly in the way that they've changed their voting body. Maybe this is ultimately what they wanted to happen. But now the award show is recognizing world cinema, which is great, but it is recognizing Hollywood a little bit less and a little bit less. For example, Maestro shut out this year.

Killers of the Flower Moon also shut out this year. Now Oppenheimer, what could be a bigger Hollywood movie than Oppenheimer, which ran the table? But also, Christopher Nolan is also a British filmmaker in addition to being an American filmmaker. And so when you look at the slate of winners, non-acting category, it's a lot of international films. It's a lot of films that are, you know, filmmakers who were not born in America. Maybe this was a necessary evolution as the world became tighter together, as it became, everything became more accessible. It's easier to watch older foreign films now. It's easier to connect to other film fans around the world became tighter together, as everything became more accessible. It's easier to watch older foreign films now. It's easier to connect to other film fans around the world. So there's something interesting about the fact, but it now feels a little bit like if there was like a rules change in a sport and the Hall of Fame changed somehow, you know? Like,

the Academy has not historically adequately recognized world cinema. Sometimes it does, you know, it fits and starts in the 70s. But now when you look at what they're doing, which is great, Anatomy of a Fall, Zone of Interest, Boy and the Heron, these are amazing films. But it now feels like there's like an inconsistency across its history, which I guess is relevant because every decade gets a new feeling and a new evolution. But I can't help but notice that the Emma Stone win, which is, of course, an American actor, but Yorgos Lanthimos, the European filmmaker, just feels like an official setting of this new era of the Academy Awards. Yeah, we've been living in it for a while.

I mean, certainly at least since Parasite in 2019. And I think both as, you know, the world gets larger and smaller simultaneously but it is easier to see all of these films and they have become more of popular culture and American popular culture even as the Academy becomes more international like we were talking with our our video producer I Corey what's your official title maestro visual visual maestro cory cory who is here with us tonight and he was like anatomy of the fall is one of the he hadn't seen all of them he was like it was definitely my favorites of the one that i've seen and that you know messy the dog from anatomy of the fall became like the major oscar scandal which is really funny in a way like you

know it's a good oscar season when like the thing that people are most upset about is that like a dog got invited to a lunch and other people were mad, you know, like we're, we're thriving if those are the only concerns. But so I, you know, maybe, maybe there are some people at Warner Brothers or Netflix who are like a little miffed because the aperture is getting wider, But like, otherwise for the rest of it, it's great. Who really cares? Yeah, I think it's great. I think it puts a new emphasis,

a fascinating emphasis on things like the Cannes Film Festival. You know, like this year, the way that it will be scouted and it'll be scouted with more international films because of the strikes that happened last year. The bulk of the films that play at Cannes

this May will be international films and will have a better chance to compete at the Academy Awards than they ever have. So it's just a fascinating kind of like objective wrinkle. So let's talk about Emma Stone's win. We both picked Lily Gladstone. We both thought that the SAG win would indicate that she would pull it off.

It has been explained to us for weeks and weeks. This has been one of the tightest Oscar races in many years. I'm a fan of both performances. Emma Stone, of course, already won. I thought that was very funny when Jimmy Kimmel noted after she won that they should rip up that envelope. Nice callback to the Moonlight La La Land mix-up.

Should we explain it to people who don't actually remember? So, obviously, you do remember that La La Land was announced as the Best Picture winner when it was actually Moonlight. But what happened was eventually explained that Faye Dunaway and Warren Beatty

were given the best actress envelope again instead of, because there are two envelopes for every category, instead of best picture. So what they were seeing was Emma Stone's name, which is why they said La La Land. So what do you think about her win? She's wonderful in that movie. You know, I have not been shy about saying I loved Lily Gladstone's performance. I've been rooting for her from the beginning. And, you know, there is, it would have been like a historically important win. And so there is always that moment in the room

where you go like, oh, you know, and you could even see Emma Stone do it just like just slightly because she is like a savvy and conscientious person. But Emma Stone is wonderful in that movie. I really like her. Great speech. Made me cry at the end,

because she shouted out the three-year-old daughter. Happy birthday to her daughter, who turns three in three days. So yeah, what are you going to do? Emma Stone is one of the great movie stars of our lifetime. Yeah, it's interesting. I'm not sure what it means. I can't help but feel like the consistent relative disinterest

from the Academy in the work of Martin Scorsese continues to resonate. He does not have very many acting wins for his films. He's been nominated for Best Director north of 10 times. It's only won once. This is the third time one of his films has gone 0 for 10 at the Academy Awards, which is really quite something. Martin Scorsese always identified as an East Coast filmmaker, a New Yorker, someone who's slightly outside of or beyond or above the fray. And, you know, he was there last night,

but there was not really much energy put towards Kills of the Flower Moon. There was a great performance of Oiseze that we saw. We saw one Jimmy Kimmel joke about its length, which I thought was a real groaner. We've heard that joke a million times. There was the Lily Gladstone bit about the murder hornets. That was funny. You know. What's the latest on murder hornets you've been following this you took her job actually she was thinking about fulfilling incredible

just like cut to field report for me and just like the giant beekeeper suit beekeeper 2 me and jason statham versus the beekeeper 2 colon murder hornets is an incredible idea. I love that. Yeah. But you're right. People have not taken this movie seriously since its release, which is insane. I thought it was the best movie of the year. So did you. It's like a masterpiece. Martin Scorsese is our greatest living filmmaker or one of them at least. You know, and people are just like, well, that's too long.

And I still haven't finished it. What more can you say? Well, you said something very smart when we were watching the show too, and we noted that Maestro and Killers could go over. And even when we said that, I was like, that's probably not going to happen. I think Lily will win. I think Maestro will win makeup.

And then when neither of those things happened and neither of those films won any awards, you said, is it like a bias against the streamers? Which is something that we talked about back in the 18, 19 days. And then, you know, Apple won for Coda and it's felt like even if there was a Netflix bias, the walls were coming down. But this was a very, very historical movie

studio centric kind of award show. Oppenheimer is a universal movie. You know, Poor Things is a Disney searchlight movie. Even Anatomy of a Fall is neon. I know it is funny to think of poor things as a Disney movie, but hopefully a sign that, you know, the studios will produce those movies. I guess MGM, Amazon produced American Fiction, so you've got a handful of places where the streamers are being recognized.

But three or four years ago, it felt like this was completely changed. Yeah. It felt like all the streamers were in pole position, and now it doesn't feel that way after tonight. I know I made the streamers point, but I don't think it's as direct as people voting like well that was a streamer movie so I don't believe in it.

I mean Killers in the Flower Moon and Maestro are I think two examples that sort of opposing ends of success of just

like true blank check filmmaking like here go do what you want to do. But notably both movies

started at Paramount. They originally were Paramount Productions. And then what happened is, is those movies, quote unquote, got too expensive. And then they went off to Netflix. And so there is something, and they are both very, very personal reflections of the filmmaker in their own ways. One, I think dramatically successfully, and one is like the fatal flaw of the film, right? But so you do wonder if something is just people aren't responding to that level of,

I guess everyone was not as moved by the fact that Martin Scorsese made this like incredible epic about America and also like his filmmaking career. They're just like, whatever. It was really long. They don't want indulgence or they don't want expert. I don't know. I don't think it's just like, well, I don't like Netflix.

No, I always think it's more subtle than that. But I think that sometimes those things bleed through. I think the other thing, obviously, going against it is that this was the Barbenheimer year and that there were several mentions of the impact of Barbie and Oppenheimer being released together and what they did or did not do for each other,

the way that they competed against each other at the box office and then for the Academy Awards. Obviously, Oppenheimer has been coronated in a pretty profound way. You could make the case, you could make the case, I won't make this case, but you could make the case that with the I'm Just Ken performance, Barbie had a bigger night. The fact that from the stage, Jimmy Kimmel in the opening of the show noted that Greta Gerwig basically got snubbed to the people who snubbed her, that it's the movie that had the highest box office. It's the movie that it felt like there was just a lot of warmth towards the cast, the crew, the people who made it despite it. Because, you know, it's a Hollywood movie. It feels like a Hollywood movie. It maybe doesn't feel as important as Oppenheimer, but

it's a big success story for Hollywood for a movie like that to win. So do you want to try to take on that argument? Do you want to take on that mantle? No, I'm never going to do that. I'm always going to be sitting in the corner being like I told you guys and you never appreciated it. And everything I said was always right from the beginning. But I mean, I'm just kind of obviously was a moment. And can I just say, where's my camera? To all the people adding me being like, oh, now you like an original song performance. I've been very clear about this, okay? I'm Just Ken is the exception to the rule as was proved during the broadcast. And by the way, Billie Eilish is an incredibly talented young musician who deserves all of her success and just stood there on stage singing a song slowly.

So do with that what you will. But yeah, that- I don't mind saying right now that while we were watching the telecast, me and you and Corey, you were just a tremendous brat during the Billie Eilish performance. You were very well behaved and nice and fun

through the whole show. Yeah. Except when she sang and you just went full brat mode. It was just, it's boring. It's just, it's boring. Just really talented. Make a better song, you know? Or give the Oscar to a better song.

I would like to note that the broadcast opened and closed with Dua Lipa's Dance the Night Away, which was not nominated for an Oscar. But they know that that is the banger that you need to get the energy going. Who's they? The show's producers? Yes. Yeah. And the people at large.

Anyway, I'm just kidding. But did you see the celebs genuflecting before Billie Eilish after her performance? There were like several cutaways to Ariana Grande, Bradley Cooper, people ready to cry. People have young children, you know? And they're just like, well, he knows better. He knows how to say Dua Lipa, okay? And he hasn't heard Billie Eilish yet. Because he would be like,

no, no new song, new song. Anyway. Um, I'm just kind of was obviously like just a tremendous, like show. So, I mean,

it was wonderful. And it really did feel like our generation's version of the Billy Crystal nineties. Just like, we're all here together, united in this like, silly but delightful pop cultural moment

that is like, ridiculous, but everyone's committed to it. From Ryan Gosling all the way down, I was glad they brought all his backup Kens. It was,

everyone showed up. Yeah. Kingsley Ben-Adir showing out. Simu Liu showing out. It was great. Slash. Shout out to Slash.

Apparently, the review from home was that Knox loved Slash and his guitar It was great. Slash. Shout out to Slash. Apparently, the review from home was that Knox loved Slash and his guitar and was very excited about that. Makes a lot of sense. If you don't like that, you don't like the Oscars. That was the Oscars at its best

doing a big brassy thing that was representative of the year in movies with extremely famous people. And the thing is, like Gosling, when he wants to be, is the chosen one. Like when he wants to do it and isn't too cool for it and want it and is willing to play he was he was perfect yeah he was perfect as Ken there was a lot of like anxiety about the idea of someone like him

stealing the movie but he does steal the movie in many ways and he stole Oscar night by doing that performance I didn't think he would do it I thought he he was going to play too cool. And he didn't. He like, he went a thousand percent. I thought he sang really well. Yeah, hit every note. Singing live started in the audience. Multiple like altitude changes, you know, because he was going up and down

because he brought Margot and Greta Gerwig and America Ferreira in to sing. And then he also got Emma Stone, his frequent co-star to also do. I'm just, you know, it was great. It was so delightful. And that also, like also like no Barbie didn't win the night but that to me was a great summary of like why Barbie the movie just like worked so well and and why it is like a real achievement because it is hard to create something that zany that everyone is just completely won over by.

And it won the room. I think it let the show have what it needs to have to be successful, which it needs to be able to basically have its cake and eat it too. It needs to be able to have Barbie be at the center of the show because people love Barbie

and like common moviegoers loved Barbie and saw it. And it also lets a grandmaster of cinema who's been waiting a long time, who made a very serious movie about a serious subject, get celebrated for that movie. And so we get to now say, literally, Steven Spielberg passing the torch to Christopher Nolan when he presented Best Director.

And that all the Nolan heads out there feel vindicated that their boy is now in the hallowed halls of best director winners that Oppenheimer was the best film of the year it has seemed boring to us because we've been covering it so closely for so long but it is ultimately what we were talking about which is that this will be the Nolan Oppenheimer Oscars that's why in all likelihood this is the way it will be remembered it won't be the Emma Stone Oscars it won't be the Zone of Interest Oscars that won't be the Anatomy of Fall Oscars. That's why, in all likelihood, this is the way they will be remembered. It won't be the Emma Stone Oscars. It won't be the Zone of Interest Oscars. It won't be the Anatomy of Fall Oscars. It'll be the Oppenheimer Oscars, which is how you know it's like, it's a mega year.

As I was watching the show, I was thinking about our conversation about how many people will watch the show. And now I'm like, how big can this show get? Like, could it be like 27 million people watching this show? I don't know. Suddenly I feel like a lot of people are going to tune in. So it's 803 PST on Sunday night when we're recording this. I just want that in context. You're full of hope and optimism and your belief that all it takes is popular film, you know, a popular film and then here come. Not just a popular film being nominated. Because people reached out to me and they were like,

hey, Maverick and Avatar, The Way way of water were nominated they were not contending that's it that is a very nice way of summarizing the way what people said to you but anyway i mean with with love and respect fuck them um i i what i'm saying is is when a movie like that is dominating when yeah it's the lord of the rings the return of the king when it's titanic when it's Titanic when it's you know Gladiator like movies like that I just realized that Leo didn't go he did not go Leo

he did not one of a few notable non-attentives at this Academy Awards and I guess like I I would have been very disappointed if Lily had won

and he were not there you know do you think he was shacked up with Hayao Miyazaki and Wes Anderson? Yeah, definitely. Just hanging out.

Yeah, those three guys. What do you think they have to say to each other? What do you think Miyazaki has to say to Leo? You think he's a fan? Do you think that Miyazaki is a fan of Leo or that Leo is a fan of Miyazaki? I know Leo. I know Leo is a huge fan of Miyazaki. Leo loves Spirited Away.

He puts Marty onto Spirited Away. Right. So Leo is just sitting there asking him, like, very earnest questions. I think that's the only time that Leo gets to unlock his, you know, his inner child. Come on the big picture. Yeah. We can talk about it, Leo. Okay.

Anytime. Yeah. Yeah, that is interesting that Leonardo DiCaprio did not attend. Robert De Niro was there, and he looked quite stern through the entire evening. I don't know if the man cracked a smile one time. There were several cutaways. There was like one tiny inch of a smile when Tim Robbins, who was like his introductor, I'd like to speak on that. Introductor or whatever, you know, called him an Oscar, called it an Oscar winning instead of an Oscar worthy performance. And there was a nice

moment and like the life was came on in his eyes but like it wasn't a full smile for the most part he glowered at everyone so i i have one note for the show it's not my note this is bad this is bad and so you tempered your opinions about this as the show went on and i would like to encourage you now before you say anything to lead with your end of show feelings as opposed to your best supporting actress feelings. It was a great show. In fact, here's what I'd like to say. I thought the usage of clips in this award show was excellent. When they used clips, like when they showed us best sound

and they isolated the sound so that we could hear the work that the artisans did. Brilliant. I loved it. It's been done before, but the way that they did it this time around was very, very good. It teaches the audience in a subconscious way what the art of filmmaking is without beating you over the head. It's not like showing you a sketch. It's just in a very succinct way explaining what filmmaking is. Yeah. Acting is also something people want to see. Time out. Time out. Because it was going to

be the rare thing where I was going to say up, up until you said the word acting and you were talking about the usage of clips in this show, I was going to agree with you. Okay. I thought that they had a very like smart, well-chosen, efficient, but effective approach to using clips and my problem with clips historically has been what you're about to ask for they've chosen this year of course to have former winners come out and introduce each of the nominees in the four acting categories in general i like this idea i like creating this historical strand that you're following if you're a fan of movies and a fan of the academy awards i like remembering oh did j Lange, did she win for Blue Sky? What year was that? I like seeing people that I haven't seen in a while. I liked Nicolas Cage

getting on stage at the Academy Awards and being the most charismatic person in the room for 12 seconds. That was awesome. I just, I love Nick Cage. Cool to see him like re-welcomed back into the fold. There was something nice about what they did and they've done that that before i think it was 2008 when they last did this um where they had these former winners come out and introduce i thought some of the writing and i don't know if it was some of these um these kind of mini speeches were written for the actors or whether they wrote them themselves it seemed like a mix to me based on how people spoke but and that's also very interesting about how people feel how comfortable they feel with public speaking and or writing so you can analyze that right and or who like actually responded to the performance and who got you know filled in at the last minute and was like sure i

admire that person from afar we'll never know the answer to that but to not show us the actors doing anything feels like robbing not just the people who are fans of the movies and like them, but the people who've never seen the movies before and would get a chance to see Sterling K. Brown in American Fiction if they haven't seen that movie, because a lot of people have not seen that movie, or get a chance to see Sondra Huller in Anatomy of a Fall, which is, of course, one of the best performances of the year, but that movie just went on Hulu a week ago. Most people haven't seen that movie who are watching the show. If 25 million people watch the show, what percentage of them have seen Anatomy of a Fall?

20%? 30%? So my point is, give them a tease. Give them a taste. Don't give me like a little montage cut together of the best picture nominees that nobody's paying attention to that they feel like they've seen on a TV commercial. Show me the acting. In some cases, they actually did because Rolex just decided to advertise watches with acting. In some cases, they actually did because Rolex just decided to advertise watches with acting. I've been working in partnership with them and they've given me 35 Rolexes. I'll give you one if you're nice to me for the remainder of this pod. Call me when you get a partnership with Cartier. Anyway, I disagree with you. Number one, because I really liked the presentations of the previous winners and the new people. It gives

each person like a moment. What was your favorite? I thought Sam Rockwell did a great job. He was very spirited. Yeah. Acknowledging Robert Downey Jr. I was just really excited that Mahershala Ali was there. You know, that's just a great way to close out any sort of any category. I didn't know he and Mark Ruffalo were boys. That was news to me. I saw that they'd recently taken a photo together on social media. I immediately just typed in Mahershala Ali and Mark Ruffalo were boys. That was news to me. Well, that's awesome. I saw that they'd recently taken a photo together on social media. I immediately just typed in Mahershala Ali and Mark Ruffalo.

Are they homies? Anyway, I just, I liked that. I went to the Are They Homies generator, by the way. Okay. And they said,

yes, they are indeed homies. Do you run that on your spare time while you're also maintaining your spreadsheets? I do. As head of content of Are They Homies.

I liked it. I like seeing celebrities at an award show. That's kind of like my primary reason for tuning in. So like the more people, the better. I thought for the most part, like they were sincere and the nominees seemed moved by it. I like that they each got a moment. I also generally think that the clips chosen

for the acting reels are some of like the worst examples of acting and Oscar bait that have ever been committed to cinema. It is like I was doing like the Julianne Moore, like, you come in, I come in here. That's what it is. Like in every reel. It's called cooking. Yeah. That's when people cook. It's insane. And it's not representative of what they're doing. And they always look crazy. So I like this better. There are also plenty of opportunities to see these people acting in all the other clips and montages that you got throughout the film. I mean, the show.

I love you, but you're wrong. You're just dead wrong. People are with me on this. More and more people are saying, show me clips. Why are we doing this? They showed you clips. They showed you so many clips. The show ended in under three and a half hours. If they had showed you more clips yeah it just would have been longer and we would have just

been there re-watching things that we have already seen i'll tell you what i enjoyed i enjoyed just steven spielberg coming on stage and just giving an award out i enjoyed al pacino showing up a little unclear where he was but i would say caffeinated and ready to go what did he say my eyes see oppenheimer which is like a really good just way i'm just like a lot out of oppenheimer no i thought it was like a like i'm not like a no liability you know i'm not the bottle exactly it's like here's what i see it was great and then as soon as they that was that was honestly, we probably overlooked the importance of this moment

when Al Pacino read Oppenheimer is the winner because as soon as the music started playing, I think he said, what's happening? You know, Al Pacino, one of the most significant actors of the last 50, 75 years. He's 83 years old. Also. It's 83 years old.

Also. It's a real liability just putting him up there. Has a young child. So we don't know about his sleep schedule. That's a good point. Daylight savings. Maybe fucking with Al Pacino.

We've all been there. I know. It's very relatable tonight. You know, what's happening? I don't know what's happening. What's happening was he announced the winner and people were coming on stage.

That was just absolutely fantastic. But my point is I like when one person does it as well. I don't need, you know, I'm a fan of the tradition of the previous winner coming out and introducing. So whether it be Jamie Lee Curtis or Michelle Yeoh or Brendan Fraser or who won Supporting Actor last year? Kiwi Kwan. Kiwi Kwan, of course.

That would have also been fine by me if I could have seen the clips. Just my personal gripe. If I didn't say anything about it, I would live to regret it. But it's really my only major issue with the show this year. Can I give my seen the clips. Just my personal gripe. If I didn't say anything about it, I would live to regret it. But it's really my only major issue with the show this year. Can I give my note? Sure. I've already given one note.

Okay. And I piled onto Billie Eilish unfairly because we also had Becky G singing the Flamin' Cheetos, Flamin' Hot song. Very briefly. With very cute children. And so that's going to come up again

where you can get away with things that I, Amanda Dobbins, object to if you bring cute children. And so that's going to come up again where you can get away with things that I, Amanda Dobbins, object to if you bring cute children on stage and let them have a moment at the Oscars. I still didn't like it. I still thought that it was time we could have spent elsewhere, but that wasn't great. And then the John Batiste, I mean, that's just a ballad. You know, we don't need ballads, but whatever. The In Memoriam segment, well, I would say that that also leaned too far into the performance arts for my taste. I see. Does this have anything to do with the fact that you were trained in the performance arts?

Speak honestly. Because I didn't grow up with that, but you did. Did you need ballet with the montage of tributes to people with Boston Hawkers? I live in a ballet household. I live with a ballerina, an aspiring ballerina. Yeah, I know. So do I. The young men and women

who danced tonight, I hope they did great. I hope they financially and professionally succeeded. Their bodies often got in the way of the names of the people who had died and who were being honored.

They're artists too. Why not honor them as well? And then it turned into another rousing song performance. I think we could have paired that back. Okay. That was my note. Any more grousing from you about the Academy Awards tonight?

I said that was my note. Okay. Was I think we could have worked on that. I do have another note. I remember another one. There was one extraneous montage in the telecast tonight. Historically, I love when the Academy Awards does montages about like, don't you love a Western? And then just 30 images of Westerns over the lastcast today. Historically, I love when the Academy Awards does montages about like, don't you love a Western?

And then just 30 images of Westerns over the last hundred years. That's one of my favorite things that they used to do that they no longer do. It is one of the- That's fine. Kevin Costner is making two movies for you. That's right.

Next year is going to be loaded with the Western montage. But I understand why they don't do it anymore. It is definitely one of the things that makes the show very long is when they have multiple tributes to genres or actors or a certain decade or a certain filmmaker or whatever it is they end up doing. They only did one this year, and I thought it was, their heart was in the right

place, but it revealed how lame the Oscars are, which is that... Can I just say, yesterday my husband said to me, you know what, you're an Oscars pundit, so you need to find a way to like the Oscars. And I just want to say that to you right now. Well, I did like it this year. I did. But I have to say this because I know a lot of people are thinking it and agree. They did a montage tribute to stunt choreography this year. Now, as you pointed out, it was very clearly an advertisement for the forthcoming film, The Fall Guy, because that stunt choreography bit was set up by Emily Blunt and Ryan Gosling, the stars of The Fall Guy.

But it also, I think, was a reflection of the fact that this past year was an incredible year for stunt choreography. The John Wick Chapter 4, the Mission Impossible film. There were a number of the creator. There were a number of incredible films that had great stunt choreography, practical stunt choreography.

And I've been crying like a like a baby for 10 years about the Oscars adding a stunts award and this year they finally announced the new award they haven't announced a new award in years they finally announced a new award and it's for casting and it's for casting for an obviously political reason I feel like they actually got some blowback for the stunts thing it's just like Vulture just did a stunts week, for Christ's sake, on their website. And then they make this montage. It was a good package. Yeah, they're good at making magazines.

Bilge is an incredible writer. He's so smart about that stuff. If you haven't read it, it's very good. But it looks lame to do a montage of all the great stunts when you're not giving out an award. The thing to do is to, on that night, say the names of the people who did the work, not just show us a clips package of a guy flying off of a motorcycle. I mean, you must agree with me. Of course I agree with you.

But I'm not like, you shouldn't have shown cool stunts. Like, you know. Well, yeah, give us both. I'm also advocating for clips. Cutting off your nose. Yeah, I agree. It was lame. It's also, like, clearly SpawnCon, sort of.

Even though Emily Blunt and Ryan Gosling did like a very charming, like Barbenheimer bit as well. That was like very funny. Yes. They are professionals. They both nailed their lines. Maybe Fall Guy will actually be entertaining.

I like, I agree. They should just make a category. But don't you think this could be like one step closer to a category? That at least they know they need to include it. I do. I do. So there we go. I do. And I think that's constructive. But the way to be constructive is for loudmouths like me to make a stink about it on a podcast like this just to make it clear. What was your favorite win of the night? I guess Killian Murphy was a nice speech.

I thought that was good. Everyone was excited about that. There weren't that many surprises. So my true answer that I was just hedging on just then was all the categories that I got right that you didn't. Two shorts categories? And what was the other one? There was one other one. Not sound. You got sound right. What did it might have just been the two shorts okay because congratulations yeah thanks so much thank you thank you thank you um your favorite categories no i thought everybody did a nice job like davon joe randolph speech very good and the i know you know i both like very emotional very moving i've loved all of her speeches and I noticed that this is the first one that she didn't have

written down. Well, that's because she's accepted roughly 300 awards. I know, and so she didn't think she was going to jinx that, but I think that's great.

She has maintained an admirable sense of authenticity through every acceptance speech. It's got to be hard to just keep going up there and to find something to say. And so, you know,

and she talked very movingly about her career and not believing in herself and the people who did believe in her she also had the immortal line of like they say not to thank your publicist but y'all don't have a publicist like i do so i'd like to thank my publicist and then didn't actually say the publicist's name so jimmy threw to her at the next thing that was great it was just very charming. So everybody kind of had a nice moment. I like that one in general. I like Giamatti walking her to the stage.

I like the cutaway to him with a single tear after her win. They seem to have a nice bond, the two of them. Gosh. Well, I thought that Justine Triet and Arthur Harari's speech and win for Anatomy of a Fall was very good. You mean Justine. Justine Trier. Are we sure that that's how they say it in France?

That's something we said when we were not being recorded. Now that we are being recorded. Well, when they introduced her for Best Director, like the tape over was Justine Trier. That was what Steven Spielberg said? No, he didn't have to say it. They cut to, did he record it? Yeah, all of the presenters recorded separately

the names of the presenters recorded separately the names of the nominees. So, here's what I'm envisioning. Steven Spielberg in a recording studio by himself doing this.

Is it Justine or Justine? Justine? Got it. Justine Trier. Yeah. Anyway,

Justine. There's no sold that so hard. Spielberg was in a bit tonight with Kate McKinnon. He was in a couple of bits. That was good. Yeah. Yeah.

And he was funny. So I enjoyed that. He also was the butt of the this boy from the Fablemans looks like this joke as well. Oh, yeah. You know what? That wasn't.

That was all right. You know, I like that movie. When you've seen the movies and you're making jokes where you've actually seen the movie, it's fine with me. Justine. That was my favorite. That was my. I don't you've actually seen the movie, it's fine with me. Justine. I don't know if it was my favorite win that I wasn't expecting or anything like that.

We were pretty sure that was going to happen. But her speech was really, really good. And then Ricky Miner and the orchestra queuing up the PIMP steel drum cover was really great and played really well. I still think that they could have used the extra three minutes. We each had like an idea of what they could have done with the extra three to five minutes of the telecast. Mine was to have like an actual steel drum band like marching up and down the aisles playing PIMP. That would have been amazing. I would have been really good. A little VMAs, but it would have been amazing. A bit funny. Yes. Let me ask you something that just kind of

occurred to me as I was thinking about a couple of winners, a couple of people who are participating this year. You know, Emma Stone, Margot Robbie, Greta Gerwig, Justine Triet, Arthur Harari. Justine! God damn it. All right, all right, all right. Justine. They're all like 37 to 45, which is, you know, that's the neighborhood that we're in.

And they're all like, and I liked what- You just pulled out my Oscar from under the desk. Here you go. Trust me, that's not what I'm delivering to you, I promise. There were little plastic Oscars at CBS the other day when I was there. And I was like, oh, should I buy one for this? For yourself or for me? No, for this, because we're recording it and some of it's on video.

Just as a little paperweight in the Senate? Or like I could have handed it to you at some point, but I didn't. Sorry. That's okay. My point was more like they all were talking about like having little kids. Yeah.

You know, they're all at the similar stage of their life. You know, Cord Jefferson, he's around our age. Like all these people who are winning.

I want to talk about Cord in a second too. It's like the Oscars kind of came for us a little bit. Yeah. Of course, there are still like

the Grandmasters and there are still like the Robert Downey Jrs who are being recognized for a lifelong body of work. But, of course, there are still like the Grandmasters and there are still like the Robert Downey Jrs who are being recognized for a lifelong body of work. But I mean, Christopher Nolan is not that much older than us, honestly, when you think about it. And so it was the first time in a while where I felt like the Oscars were a reflection of a generation that we're participating in, unusually. And that may have been true for Nomadland or for CODA when you

think about those filmmakers, but we didn't have as big and long a relationship with some of those directors or writers or actors. So there's something too about how this generation, this kind of like older millennial, super young Gen X is now really at the center of Hollywood, the center of the Academy Awards, which is a good thing, I think. It is a good thing. It does also just mean that we're old, you uh which is yeah which is sort of tough it's like it's when all of the you know the jokes at the major events are to things from your childhood like the fact that um arnold schwarzenegger and daniel devito like presented and then jennifer lame won for best editing and was like i love the movie twins which of course was the first thought that any

one of our generation would have. So like time comes for us all and there are benefits to it. Like. And Jennifer Lame, a contemporary of ours, you know, someone who is about our age. Now, I wonder if 19 year olds are sitting at home and they're like, this show sucks. Do you think they've seen Twins? No, no, no. I'm sure they would love Twins.

Twins is a timeless classic. No, I mean the Academy Awards. Yeah. Like when they watch the show. Because we have an enthusiasm for tonight's show. And I'm usually kind of grouchy about the telecast. And now I'm like, is the telecast now for me? Yes, it is.

Is this my boomer moment? I know, it's tough, right? It's like when the things that you complain about finally come for you, then you have to start looking in the mirror and you're like, oh no, now I'm the problem. I've been having this experience with movies a lot in the last couple of years with needle drops, as you know. Sure. Where all of the needle drops, I'm like, wow. I know, you just start crying.

These filmmakers have great taste. God, this is so emotional, so touching that they see me so deeply. But it's just, you're right. We're just getting old. Yeah. We're just getting old. Yeah. But it's okay.

There was Billie Eilish for the teens. So. I know, but I felt like a lot of old people were also deeply touched by her. They were like, she reminds me of Edith Piaf or something. No? They didn't think that? No, I don't. Maybe they did.

What was the worst win of the night? Well, that seems ungenerous. I'm thinking, well, it sucked that Wes Anderson wasn't there. That was troubling. I mean, I'm glad that he won. Is he glad that he won? I don't know.

Do you think he knows? Do you think he stayed awake in Paris? Do I think, does he know whether he won an Academy Award? It was like in the middle of the night in Paris where he lives and works. I have a feeling that at a minimum, someone from the Netflix

Corporation called him. You think he has do not disturb on? Does Wes Anderson have a smartphone in his sleeping vicinity? Does he have a smartphone? Now we're cooking. These are the questions. These are the real questions. If he didn't have a smartphone, I would not be surprised. Yeah. Where will he display his Academy Award? Prominently in his French flat? No, probably just in his office, right? I don't know. I'm not sure. I mean, now that I'm picturing it, it's like pretty pristine, like workspaces, as I recall. It's just like the large Mac where he, you know, does all his little designs. Would you like to address the shorts categories more deeply since you predicted all three of them correctly? I stand by everything that I said,

but I do think that the little girl who was part of the last repair shop acceptance team was absolutely adorable. And once again, anytime you bring like a smiling, winning, adorable child onto the screen or the stage, I can't be that mad at you. You know what dawned on me when that film won that I hadn't thought about when I was watching it or thinking about our predictions was that's an L.A. story. Yeah. That's a hometown movie. Yeah. That's a movie where it's very easy for everybody.

You could hear as soon as I heard the applause for it during the telecast when they showed it, when they were presenting the nominees, I was like, oh, that's going to win. Right. I overthought this. What was I doing? And that's a good win. You mentioned last week Ben Proudfoot's second win in this category. And Chris Bowers, who's a composer, was one of the directors of the film, I thought gave a really good speech.

Yeah, it was lovely. I mean, it was also then became about music education, which I'm like absolutely for. So they were like best case in that category. Agree. War is over. I also predicted that correctly. And I guess now we just have to have a debate about whether Yoko Ono celebrates British Mother's Day. I believe Yoko Ono was born in Japan.

And she's best known as a resident of New York City. So I don't know why we had to all say happy Mother's Day to Yoko. Everyone in the room did say happy Mother's Day to Yoko. Everyone in the room did say happy Mother's Day, Yoko. Okay. Do you think we should record an episode of The Big Picture on Mother's Day in America? No. No, you don't want to? Here's what's going to happen on Mother's Day in America. But that indicates that that's not something that makes you happy. By the way, not one of you wished me happy International Women's Day. Yeah, you're damn right. I waited all day. I tell you what. Where was my text?

When you say not one of you, are you referring to the listeners of this show? Yes, or you or Bobby or anyone. I said that to the two men in my life in the car as we drove home. It's a bit of a digression from the Academy Awards, but I'm going to tell the story anyway. Went out for a lovely wine evening with my wife that afternoon, that Friday of International Women's Day. And the bartender sidled over and he showed us the specials. And they were International Women's Day specials. And he said, I want to say happy International Women's Day to you, madam, to my wife. And she was like, I have no idea what you're talking about.

She had no idea what it was. And then I tried to pretend like I did, but I didn't. So you don't know what it is. Eileen definitely doesn't. Yoko, she doesn't know. She's not. Mother's Day or UK Mother's Day, though. She knows what it is. Eileen definitely doesn't. Yoko, she doesn't know. She's not- Mother's Day or UK Mother's Day though. She knows what it is.

I guess so. Yeah. I didn't know they've been living there permanently. That's nice. Good for them. I mean, great. Thank God Sean Ono Lennon has an Academy Award. You know, what else can we do to just cement his legacy?

It's just incredible stuff. Shorts category is boring. I'll tell you I did like Jonathan Glazer's speech when he won for Best International Feature which was really the only speech of the night

that addressed both the attacks in Israel and also the violence and war in Gaza and obviously the subject of his film which we talked about

when we talked about the film a few times the the kind of timeliness of that story or the resonance at least yeah even though it's a world war ii story obviously it was profound i noticed you know when he was giving that speech um his hands were shaking he seemed nervous and he had he apologized at first for

reading it but he had clearly thought a lot about it and you you know, composed the speech to say what he wanted to say, which I thought was very moving and affecting. It was. And we saw a handful of attendees wearing ceasefire buttons throughout the night. But there has been a lot of talk among people who cover award shows closely about the general lack of discussion of a lot of world events. We saw another example of this during Best Documentary Feature when Maudisllav Chernin won for 20 Days in Mariupol. And I thought it gave one of the best speeches of the night. Absolutely. But also just like a heartbreaking.

And the crux of it was like, I would trade this Oscar to reverse the events captured on this film and to reverse everything that has happened in Ukraine in the last years. It highlighted something really effective about the telecast too, which is that even though the show was shorter this year and even though it felt like there wasn't attention paid to the length of speeches and to the briskness of the song performances,

when someone had something to say that mattered, they didn't get played off. You know what I mean? When it was someone who was just thanking their agent the music came up a little bit but when when when turnoff was giving that speech he was allowed to complete his thought and i'd felt like the camera was very tight on him when that moment was happening but it felt like the room was like locked into the moment yeah and you're right that they gave him the full speech to the point that there was eventually a standing ovation for it

but people seemed it like it like took a minute. People I guess didn't really know that it was over. I will say my other note

for the production was that once his speech was finished his exit music was I believe it was I'm Just Ken

like instrumental. It was definitely like a Barbie song which you know was like not the best pairing but they didn't play it over him at least what would you have played instead would you have played the Dua Lipa song instead no okay no because I was saving that for the intro and conclusion of the show because that's how important it is it's just a it's like that is a that. You know what I'm saying? Yes, it's a hit song.

It's a hit song in the biggest movie of 2023. Okay. When will you let it go? When do you think that will be? Tonight. That's it. We're done

because the Oscars are over. This is an exercising of demons. Yeah. Can I tell you something? I felt very heard and seen during Cora Jefferson's acceptance speech for American fiction.

What a great speech. It was very different from every other speech we heard tonight for a couple of reasons. One, he didn't really thank anybody. He didn't go out of his way to thank his parents or the company that made his movie or the actors in his movie. You know, he talked about how, you know, blessed he felt to get to do the work. But he's also won a lot of awards over the last few months. He's given a lot of speeches. He's thanked a lot of people over that time,

but he basically had a small mission in his speech, which was to say something that I think we both really believe in, which is that as Hollywood over the last 50 years has gotten increasingly international and corporately owned and publicly traded, it has started to only make one kind of movie. And when I say that, I don't mean like superhero movies. I just mean massively scaled movies that need to be able to play around the world. And that has hurt the quality of movies that we get.

There's no doubt about it. 2023 is the first year in a while, maybe only the second year of the last nine or 10, where I felt, didn't feel that kind of despair about how things were getting worse and not better. And what he said was that not every movie needs to be a $200 million movie. That, you know, why not have 20, $10 million movies?

Why not have $54 million movies? I loved the sentiment of that, that like scaling down and trying to maximize the absolute ceiling of everything all the time is something I really believe in. And it was exciting to hear him say that. Now, obviously, those are the kinds of movies that Kord is more likely to be entrusted with, or that someone like Kord who's never made a movie is more likely to be entrusted with. But it also means that sometimes you get American fiction out of it, or sometimes you get Anatomy of a Fall out of it, or sometimes

you get The Zone of Interest, or movies that don't have to, you know, absolutely max out on profits. And also, sometimes it means maybe you get poor things out of it, which made a hundred million dollars. And it's a strange hard R movie from Disney that was made by a Greek filmmaker that is like, would be incomprehensible on the page until you see it on the screen. So I loved his speech. I love what he had to say. I thought it was really cool that he won. It's kind of in the tradition of these two categories that the cool movies by interesting young writers win. So it's not surprising that Justine and Cord were winners tonight. Maybe in 20 years, they'll be allowed to compete for best director for real. But I was really happy to hear that sentiment and happy to hear that people in the room seem

to support it too, because even though a lot of the people we think of as attending the Oscars are just actors and writers and filmmakers and artisans executives are there too you know and those are the people who say yes you can make a movie or yes you can't yeah I thought another notable executives and studio people are here in the room was in after Kimmel's monologue when he mentioned like the strikes and then he brought out everyone all the crew and like made a noticeable shout out to the Teamsters and IATSE and everyone whose negotiations are coming up. Like a show of support.

And also the Immortal line, if you're wearing Skechers to the Oscars, take a bow, which is really, really good. But there was a standing ovation. And it's like, well, a lot of these people are going to be on the other side of that table. So that'll be interesting. Yeah, yeah. I wonder if those people were standing too.

Yeah, but you can't sit down, right? Yeah, it was a really good moment. And an acknowledgement of the fact that 2023 was this paradox of a great year for movies, but a really tough year for the business in general. And I think, I don't know, I'm feeling pretty positive if I'm being honest. I think maybe on Tuesday when we do the mailbag,

I'd like to talk a little bit about like what's the Oscars going to be like next year? What movies? What's the show going to seem like? One thing

related to that that seems inevitable to me is that if Jimmy Kimmel is not asked back and he could be and in some ways probably should be

because the show has just been good with him. You know, it's just been good every time he's hosted it. But if he doesn't we just saw John Mulaney host the Governor's Awards a few months ago, and he absolutely aced it.

And then tonight, did just a great routine. Just absolutely genius bit. And it was like, someone pointed this out, that there was a little tiny moment of this show where it was John Mulaney explaining the plot of Field of Dreams as an entree into, was it Best International? No, that was Sound. Best Sound. And Best Sound, which was one of the best winners of the night for the zone of interest. And then immediately after that, so I can't recall exactly what happened right after that, but it was three things in a row. We were sort of like, wow, this is what it could be all the time. Right. You know,

it could be thoughtful awards giving. It could be super funny, talented people who really know and love movies, talking about the movies. That's the thing with Mulaney is it's so evident that he's really into movies and he really knows movies. And that's one of the reasons why geeks like me have been saying for five years, like, let this guy do it. Let this guy do it.

When he does this, you know, Independent Spirit Awards, you could tell he watched the nominees. He's so good. So I thought that that was really exciting and the fact that they let him go up there by himself and do just a John Mulaney bit, just a moment from a stand-up special, portends very good things for next year too.

I think it, could it have gone into I'm Just Ken? It might have been. It might have been. I think that's what it was. Right around that moment, which is just a killer 30 minutes of television. Who is the happiest person right now?

Is it Chris Nolan? Is it Donna Langley in Universal? You know, is it? I hope Donna's happy. You know, billion dollars and also seven Oscars. Is that right? And maybe another Christopher Nolan movie in the future. Sure.

Yeah. I think Christopher Nolan is happy to the extent that he has a capacity for happiness, which I just, you know, he seems like a very British reserved sort of guy. So, but yeah, I thought he,

he had a lovely speech. Um, like just the right note, not too self-serious, but clearly very honored by it. And like even his thing at the end of, you know, we're only 100 years into like the world of cinema and imagine what it can be. But, you know, thank you for thinking I'm part of it. Like that, I thought that was like perfectly chosen.

Who else could be happy? Let's see. I mean, I hope Emma Stone's happy. Do you think she is at all conflicted as one of the co-authors of the TV show The Curse? Yeah, I'm sure that she is. But I think like in a... You can't make this stuff up. In a nice human.

And I think it would be weird if she weren't. Can we work on it for a minute though? Yeah, no, it's strange. Isn't it crazy? Yes. That she and Nathan Fielder made this show? Yeah. That is almost entirely about the idea of affluent, successful white people taking things from Native people in this country.

That's the big idea of the show. Yeah. And then she won this award. Like, that's pretty weird, right? It is. It's very weird. And not, like, intentional. I don't think that.

No, not intentional. Yeah. I don't think Academy voters watched The Curse. You don't think so? Chris Nolan did. Oh, yeah. Well, sure. He hosted an FYC event related to The Curse. You don't think so? Chris Nolan did. Oh, yeah. Well, sure. He hosted an FYC event

related to The Curse with Benny Safdie, his co-star from Oppenheimer. Oh, my God. Chris Nolan sitting quietly alone watching The Curse is one of the best things I can imagine.

Did I ever tell you about my Chris Nolan sighting in Los Angeles, which is I was on, I was running around the Hollywood Reservoir, which is a lovely, like, what it sounds like, a three-mile loop around a reservoir.

But it's where people go to exercise. All right. Were you paid by the Chamber of Commerce to say that? What are you talking about? I'm just trying to explain it to people. Because you need to understand the setting to understand that there I am running and everyone else is exercising. And Chris Nolan is ambling along in like in a jacket and buttoned down and like his full director get up. Just walk. And I was

like, who is this man in the suit? And then I was like, oh, it's Christopher Nolan. What do you think he was doing? Maybe he's just exercising in those clothes. Was this before Oppenheimer? Yeah. So do you think he was, he was ruminating on his adaptation? Perhaps. Interesting.

It was also maybe before Tenet. So, you know, really anything could have been going on. Do you think when you raced by him, sprinting as you are, he could only see you going backwards? Probably. As he brainstormed his masterpiece Tenet, which everyone has now acknowledged is a masterpiece. It is a masterpiece. We were early on that. I just, it was like hot too. And he was just wearing, maybe it was a sport coat, not a blazer, but you know, it was formal.

There was a piece in the New York Times last week about a short film that Christopher Nolan made when he was in film school that is now impossible to see. That is a handful of people who he's worked with in the future worked on it but and there are other short films he worked on before he made Memento and started his Hollywood career but that film can't be found but in that story someone talked about the fact that he

in college wore a button down and a blazer every day and the uniform that you saw at the reservoir has been in existence for a long time. Question about Christopher Nolan. Do you think his next movie will be more serious or less serious? And by that, I mean more of an aspirational Oscar movie or more of a tenant?

I hope it's more of a tenant. Well, you're not answering the question. What do you think? He does seem to alternate a little bit, right? Because obviously Dunkirk was Oscar aspirational or, you know, like more serious, historical minded. And then, you know, he gets a little trippy with the with with the timelines. So so maybe it'll be looser. Do you think Dark Knight Rises was an Oscar film? Can we talk about John Cena? Really funny.

So you haven't seen Ricky Stanecki. No, I have not. The new film from Peter Farrelly, which is on Amazon Prime right now that you can watch, starring Zac Efron and John Cena. John Cena in the movie portrays the titular Ricky Staneicki who is a made up person this trio of young friends create basically to get away from like spending time

with their wives or whatever classic Farrelly Brothers premise Jesus Christ and then John Cena plays an actor in Atlantic City who they hire to play Ricky Stenicki

I didn't think the movie was very good however I did think that John Cena was excellent in the role and so coming out of that movie that I watched yesterday I was like you know who really is cooking right now is Cena

we should just let him do more stuff great little cameo in Barbie yeah having a great time and then he was at the center of like maybe the best bit of the whole show genuinely really funny there was also uh some inside the room footage that confirmed that he was in fact not wearing clothing behind that envelope is that physique your type it's not okay um he was it's like a human triangle yeah and like really really really defined to the point that i was wondering like whether there was any sort of you know contouring in certain areas do you know what that means i i do but you mean like did he have something done to him? No, I more meant whether

like some of the lines were so pronounced that I was like, is that drawn on? Or enhanced at least. You know? Well, he's one of the best lines of the night was

I wrestle in jorts. Right. Which is true. When he was when his persona was a white rapper from New England, which was his persona when he first broke on the scene at WWE, he wrestled in shorts.

He was always pretty ripped, but now he's... Yeah. He and The Rock, too. I noticed Dwayne Johnson's, the veinage on his cranium was rippling. It felt like it was pulsating. I'm a little worried for those guys. Maybe that was also like the reflection from his suit, you know?

Very curious suit choice on Dwayne Johnson. Can't say I fully understood that. I wish him well in his efforts making films with A24. Didn't he and Bad Bunny hand out International Feature

to the zone of interest? They did. Yeah, okay. That's an interesting choice. Do you think Bad Bunny has seen the zone of interest? I don't know. It's possible.

Anything is possible. Do you think Bad Bunny has seen Madam Web? I don't. Not one, possible. Anything is possible. Do you think Bad Bunny has seen Madame Web? I don't. Not one, but two Madame Web jokes tonight. Was one of them Mulaney's? One of them was Mulaney's. Yeah, that was really good.

One of them was Jimmy Kimmel's. Yeah. Tough night for Madame Web. Who had a harder night? Dakota Johnson or Bradley Cooper? Tough. Bradley did have that front and center aisle spot with his mom and didn't win an Oscar. What must it be like to just take these public L's all the time?

Just like every award show showing up and then being like, nope, not you. Yeah. For just four months. Seemed like he knew because he didn't wear a tie. That's why he didn't wear one? Well, I should say, you know. They cut him like a hundred times during the show. Right. But like maybe if he thought he was going to win, he would have put on a tie that's why he didn't wear one well i just say you know they cut him like a hundred times during the show right but like maybe if he thought he was gonna win he would have put on a tie you know okay um it seemed like he had his i'm i'm just happy to be here

face pretty well he just needs to play like a lawyer or a corrupt cop or something in a movie like nap like asap i just need him to be like you know really, really like a down on his luck fireman? Let's keep going, you know? Let's keep going? Let's just keep going. Let's see how strange this can get. Like, should he try to play like a dog in a movie? Maybe, you know? Should he portray Messi in the story of Messi's awards campaign?

Did you see the clip, you know, because Messi was shown clapping at one point? Well, I mean, yeah. Sure, right. They're fake the clip, you know, because Messi was shown clapping at one point? Well, I mean, sure, right. They're fake dog paws, but yeah. Right.

But then they, that was also like on the screen in the room. So did you see the camera cut to Gosling seeing it on the screen

and being like, oh, he's clapping. He's just like me. Yeah. Just what a national treasure. Very enjoyable. Yeah.

I don't know. I mean, any other great wins fun wins surprising wins that you saw tonight i'm i'm scrolling through seeing if there's anything we didn't we didn't really talk about robert downey jr we didn't he won that was not a surprise it was not he gave another in a long line of wry self-flageating, self-congratulatory speeches. I think you had mentioned after SAG, you expected something a little bit more prestigious. I wouldn't quite say it got there.

Not even prestigious, but like, something slightly more sincere than, you know, he just like hopped right up there, like arms over his head and was like, here I am. Like literally he was like, thank you so much. You know, like not even pretending that he wasn't expecting it or that he didn't deserve it. And, you know, I didn't understand the third hour of Oppenheimer, but sure, he deserves an Oscar. That's fine. It's like. You think it should have been Iron Man 2 or Iron Man 3?

Which one did Chris draft first? Iron Man 3. Iron Man 3, yeah, that one. I believe that's where RDJ and Sam Rockwell became friends, by the way. Oh, okay. But, yeah, there was just something a little... We're used to this meaning like a little bit more to people than it seemed to mean to him.

Interesting. That's a good way of framing it. Yeah. But by the same token, that kind of... I'd like to thank my terrible childhood opening. Yeah. Part and parcel with his public persona, which is like, I know that you know that I know that I'm a mess, but also I'm so charming and can speak at length extemporaneously in incredibly clever ways. This is my whole personality. But it works.

Like, it's a great personality. And when he gets the chance to flex it in a superhero movie, it works. Or in a Christopher Nolan movie, it works. He's another one who I'm kind of curious to see what's next. Like, is it now just back to comedies that he can get paid $30 million for? No, he's got the HBO show coming. He does. The Sympathizer is coming in the spring. Obviously, he did that before he won, but, like, it seems like he's trying stuff.

Do you think he'll ever work with Christopher Nolan again? I don't know. Because even within this movie, he's not like, he's apart from kind of, you know, the Nolan repertory theater. Like, it's all of his usual characters. And then our DJ just kind of gets to sound off. So it might be a little jarring to have him pop up again in the way that Cillian Murphy keeps showing up and showing up and showing up.

A couple of other good wins. We had that triumvirate of below the line folks from Oppenheimer. Hoitza von Hoitza, Jennifer Lame and Ludwig Arnson. Your pals. My homies from the pod that we did together. How do you feel about your photo with them circulating across the internet over and over again tonight i like wildfire it's like a new york times breaking news i think i'll be on the cover of the times it's like the ellen selfie and then that yeah yeah in terms of historic oscar photos yeah

definitely um i'm i i think they're worthy like i was excited to do that event because i think that they're great and in the case of know, Ludwig has already won one. Jennifer Lane, we talked about last week, has an incredible filmography, probably will go on to doing even more exciting work given where she's at right now

in her career. And Hoytavan Hoytaman, I think is pretty much like understood as one of the best. You know, I said to you when he won, he got a pound from Maddie Libetique, the also acclaimed cinematographer.

Like they're obviously friends and really two of the best working. His next movie, Libetique, is the high and low remake that Spike Lee is doing, which is very exciting. So it's just one of those things where that category has a tendency to wait 10 or 15 years too long to award its greats. It took a long time for Roger Deakins to win that award. And so it was cool to see him win for that remember when a single image of Rango was projected in the theater and you just turned to me and said that was an image of Rango yes I do remember that and I'll never forget it that's what it's like to watch the Oscars with Sean Rango lives on in Academy history and I'd like to thank it do you think Rango would compete as well in the newly

International Academy probably okay thank you yeah nice of you to say that uh one other win visual effects which went to godzilla minus one oh this this was a great one so you know i mentioned that um that a godzilla movie has never won an academy award so this was incredibly exciting to see and it's one of those things where like how did we go this long with a movie like this never winning especially when we have a category like this? But there was enough going in this movie's favor that almost like we'd become inoculated to the American Godzilla movies. Something like this was such a surprise and it like took off like a bolt. And it was really exciting.

It was exciting to see this movie win. And it was like kind of a fitting capper, I think, on a year of like behemoths and surprises because this was kind of both. It was also the very nice moment when they got on stage and they had brought a couple Godzilla figurines, but then it was like trying to juggle the two figurines, the Oscar and the speech, you know, and there was like the exchange of very sweet.

I really enjoyed it. What would be your prop if you were to win an Academy Award? Would you bring an entire IBM Selectric typewriter on stage? Because I've won a first screenplay a cartier watch perhaps that sure that would be lovely yeah who had the best necklace of the night so did you notice all of the brooches on the men i did yeah like that's one of those things where because that's a thing right now yes i texted my friend lauren sherman of puck and i was like what's with all the brooches she's like that's a thing right now. Yes. I texted my friend Lauren Sherman of Puck and I was like, what's with all the brooches?

She's like, that's a thing. So that's your fashion insight. Coleman Domingo has been very brooch forward. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it is. It is true as well. I even purchased one that I've been trying in my own life, but.

Not wearing it tonight. Not tonight. You know, you can't do it all the time. But so that was the problem, right? Is it just Bradley Cooper's face, the brooch? Yes. How did you know? Every single man was wearing one.

Like, every... It wasn't like one or... Every single man? Almost every single... Was Slash wearing one on stage? You know, there was a lot going on at that moment. He was wearing a hat. He was wearing a hat.

Time to wrap up. You're doing a little punching. No, sorry. I was just reminding... Okay, you know the new Vulture, what's their game called? Cinematrix or whatever. Rebecca Ferguson was one of the three categories the other day. And I got.

I correctly got Dr. Sleep. Because I remembered Rosie the Hat. Rose the Hat. But yes. It's not Rosie. No. It's Rose. Rosie would be better.

Okay. That is. That's my note for Stephen King. And that remake. Anyway. So many men were trying, like, shooting their brooch shot that it was, like, too much, I thought. And no one walked away with that victory. What should be on my brooch?

A spreadsheet. Okay. It's too easy. I don't think we have any more awards to talk about. Am I forgetting something? Am I missing something? I was trying to think, what were we absolutely yelling at each other about? We were yelling about nominations.

This was during my rest period on the floor, remember? I do remember you. And we were just screaming. Well, I couldn't hear anything you were saying while you were literally lying on the floor while we were working. I was preserving my neck because the angle of the seats and the projection, you know, does not favor people of our age. I see. Oh, we were yelling about whether John Williams should have been at the Academy Awards. Do you remember this?

Well, I was reflecting on best score. Sure. And how I just was not a big fan of the American fiction score. And I was, I just, the John Williams nomination is very nice. And he's a legend. Yeah. But did anybody walk out of Dial of Destiny and say like, the movie, the music just kicked ass in that movie.

Like, no one really said that. There were better scores this year. I thought it was the best part of that movie. That's just insane. Well, one of them. that score that he wrote 40 years ago sure i was just thinking about what about harrison ford at 98 years old strapping it on getting on top of that train wearing a hat and then he talked to archimedes is that who it was uh sure yeah he went back in time 500 years a thousand years and you were like i think i think the score is the best he went back in time 80 billion years he went back in time in a plane it's like the invasion of syracuse did people see dial of destiny that movie was pretty good i don't

know what people are talking about but i did not walk out of it thinking John Williams must win an Oscar for his work. That is just There's an Indiana Jones theme. Ungenerous and ignorant of everything that John Williams

has given us. Okay. And that score has lived on for 40 years and he's iterating on it and it's beautiful. So you think that John Williams

should be allowed to publicly assassinate Ludwig Gorenson and take his academy away? No, you didn't even want him in the room. And it's John fucking Williams. I said I didn't want him nominated.

He could be in the room. He's a legend. That's not how the Oscars work. Maybe he could give Ludwig Göransson that Oscar. That would be fine. Okay. So those are the circumstances in which you're just trying to- If Spielberg can give it to Nolan-

You were trying to disinvite John Williams from the Oscars, and I was upset about that. All I said was he shouldn't be nominated. And then I was thinking about every once in a while, people are like, you guys should sell opportunities to watch the Oscars with you. And it's just the two of us screaming at each other while lying down, being like, fuck you, John Williams deserves a seat.

Only one of us was lying down. I'll have you know. I was sitting stiffly in front of Corey. Uh, okay. So you got 18 out of 23 correct this year, which is, I think that's what you got. What did you get last year? Do you remember? I have no recollection.

Um, I got 17 out of 23 this year. Okay. Just, just squandered by the shorts again. Uh, the Oscars big bet. Let's, let's have a discussion about it. So if you're listening to this podcast for the first time, you don't know what we're talking about.

You didn't hear our predictions episode. You didn't hear our episode all the way back in October. We made an incredibly premature series of wagers on key categories where before virtually any of the precursors had started, but more or less in the immediate aftermath

of the key fall festivals, we made our picks in a bunch of categories. And we created a scoring system. And it turns out that your boy was victorious with a score of 57 points to your 54 points. And it came down to best actress. And best actress. And if Lily Gladstone had won, then I would have won.

Yes. And if Lily Gladstone had won, then I would have won. Yes. And if what? What are you going to make me watch? You know? Well, you should start asking yourself, where will I make you watch it? That's really the big, because what was on the line for this bet was a movie night of the winner's choice of any kind. Now, we could be going to a drive-in in Santa Barbara. We could be going to my garage.

We could be going to the finest AMC in all the land. Or we could be going to a rep theater in our neighborhood. I don't know where we're going to do it. I don't know what it's going to be. I've got some clout in this town. I've got some pull. Maybe I'll do something very special and exciting but it'll be

for me it'll be on my terms it'll be something I think you need to see as opposed to the rest of this experience well I mean you know how it works

you feel comfortable in it so you're smarting from this loss yeah I was really hoping to get to have some fun for once what were you going to do?

so honestly I don't know what I was going to do, but I watched Three Women the other night because I'm preparing for the 1997 movie draft. 77. 1977. Yeah, sure. I wish it were 97, but that's okay.

1977 movie draft. And then I was thinking about Shelley Long. And then I was like, I haven't seen True Beverly Hills in a really long time. That's one of my wife's favorite movies. I know so that would have been fun. Do you think that anyone under the age of 30 listening to this has ever seen True Beverly Hills? No I don't. I do know that it is a complicated movie for me because it's young Carla Gugino and young Jenny Lewis who Yeah, it's very powerful. Who in their adulthood were huge crushes of mine. But now to watch like a teenage movie with those people is awkward.

It's weird. There's other young famous actresses. Obviously, Shelley Long's a star. Yeah. I feel like a couple of other people that went on to big careers. It also taught me about hiding a camera in a paperback, you know, and then you just press the button. Oh, yeah, I forgot about that.

A lot of important lessons. Okay, so that's what you were press the button. Oh, yeah. I forgot about that. A lot of important lessons. Okay. So that's what you were going to do. No, I had not made any decisions. I had just been thinking about how I hadn't seen True Beverly Hills in a while. It'd be fun to do an event

that is for the big picture. Yeah. But that... That punishes me. It's a movie you haven't seen that would make you uncomfortable that you then have to talk about after a screening.

Okay. Do you think we should try to do that? Sure. What kind of, like, what genre? What makes you more uncomfortable, horror or science fiction? Both are fine. Okay. You trying to avoid just getting yelled at here?

What's going on? No, no, no, no, no. I mean, that's the thing is that honestly, like, I can, you know, I don't love gore. But it's fine. I just kind of like close my eyes and then I don't love being confused. Okay. But I can try to pay attention. Most of the time it's like, I don't want to try that hard, you know, or it's my interest.

I know. Yeah. As you know. So anything is fine. I don't know what reaction you'll get from me. Well, we're going to do a mailbag later this week. I would suggest that when we send out the missive for the mailbag,

we just get some suggestions from the listeners. What would people like to see with us? What do they think would make you uncomfortable, annoyed, innervated, but make for great content? Maybe I'll surprise you. What if,

what if, what if we screened barbie yes but it was hosted by me and hillary clinton how would you feel would you attend that honestly yes that would suck for you a lot more i like barbie yeah sure right your name has to be on the same card so Good point. So you have to, yeah. Would that work in its favor or against its favor? You know? Who gets top billing on that one, me or Hillary?

That's going to be between you and her people, you and Bill. Okay. Yeah. This feels good. This feels like a good win. I think I'd rather have this one too. I was feeling really great about the Oscars and I was feeling positive. And then I lost.

So that sucks. I think animated feature broke my way because I had chosen Boy in the Heron, and that was another one that was a big one that was critical here. God damn it. It's tough. I'm very sorry for you. Any other closing thoughts on the Academy Awards? Good job, everyone.

It was a good show. I really enjoyed it. I'm going to watch I'm Just Ken again. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. I'm just Sean. Okay. This has been

a wonderful Oscar season. It's actually been quite a boring Oscar season, but always great to pod with you. Thank you so much to our producer, Bobby Wagner, for his work on this episode. Thank you to our visual maestro,

Corey McConnell. Thank you, Corey. Thank you to the listeners of the show. As I said, we'll do a mailbag. Joanna Robinson is going to join us. She's an avid Oscar watcher as well

and a Barbie fan. Curious for her. I'm just Ken Take. And maybe we will talk a little bit about Dune 2, I think, because I want to talk about where Oscars 2025 is going. Thanks for listening to every show

during this Oscar run. And we'll see you later this week.