The Big Picture - The 2025 Golden Globes: ‘The Brutalist’ and ‘Emilia Pérez’ Usher in a New Era

Episode Date: January 6, 2025

Sean and Amanda are joined by ‘House of R’ host Joanna Robinson to react to the 2025 Golden Globes, an up-and-down award show highlighted by strong performances from Brady Corbet’s ‘The Brutalist’ and Jacques Audiard’s ‘Emilia Pérez.’ They also discuss the movies they were surprised performed weaker on the evening, like ‘Anora,’ ‘Conclave,’ and ‘Wicked.’ Finally, they evaluate the entertainment of the broadcast and host Nikki Glaser. Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guest: Joanna Robinson Senior Producer: Bobby Wagner Video Producer: Jack Sanders Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is the Big Picture Conversation Show about the Golden Globes. We are joined on Hollywood's second biggest night by Joanna Robinson, who has been helping us recap the Golden Globes and the awards race all season long. Hi, Jo. Hi, I'm thrilled to have Amanda back for this particular night, especially the one of the wildest. This is the most Hollywood being its most ridiculous self night and who better but Amanda

to share this moment with us. When Joanna showed up on the screen, I started talking to her as if I had been seeing her regularly for the last three months, which I have in my head. I've been listening. But I realize that this is the first time I'm actually seeing you via screen anyway since I left. So thank you. You've been doing a wonderful job.

I'm thrilled to be here with you, to be able to share hot takes in person. And do we have hot takes or do we just have confusion? Well, I think we have a confirmation of a new era of the Golden Globes, which is how I'd like to talk about this show with you guys. Yeah, but like, do you care? Well, it matters to what we do for a living

when we talk about this stuff, right? I don't know that I emotionally care. That's true. But it is notable that things feel, if not radically different, they feel a little different than they have in the past. The Golden Globes, as the three of us have talked about many times over the years, are, while very notable and glitzy, kind of a joke.

They're kind of a silly award show. They're the award show where the celebrities get drunk. And they have really mean hosts who make fun of people to make us plebs at home feel better about ourselves. That's the wild and silly show where 80 people who don't live in this country, you know, hobnob with celebrities and then they give them big gold statues. And now, this is an award show where a vast collection

of international and art house performers are given very stately prizes and deliver sincere speeches about the greatness of their works and the potential for art. That's not the Golden Globes. That isn't what they do. So this does feel different. Let me start by asking this. Did you think it was a good show tonight?

I had a good time, but that is also because I, A, like awards shows, and B, I'm really happy to be among the land of adults. I, just thank you so much for having me. As previously documented on this podcast, I learned who Nikki Glaser was on Thursday. That said, live on the podcast, just doing some Googling. That's great. Thought she was very funny. I chuckled at many of her jokes. said, alive on the podcast, just doing some Googling. We love it. That's great.

Thought she was very funny. I chuckled at many of her jokes. I thought that the presenters were, as almost as always the case, hit and miss and mostly miss with a few times of me heckling the large screen, asking them to wrap it up. But funny moments. The presenters were also kind of a lot of the star power of the show,

which is, I guess, the case at most awards shows. But I didn't feel like I got that much people mingling and mixing. That's true. At the Golden Globes. They had the interstitials. There was some hobnobbing, but there was no They had the interstitials, there was some hobnobbing, but there was no Taylor Swift and Selena Gomez exchanging gossip with 14 cameras on them like there was last year, for example. So there was just a lot of Hugh Grant and Jeremy Strong

being seated at the same table right behind one of the presenting modules. Yeah, you're number one boy, and me and Joanne is number one boy together. I am concerned about Hugh Grant's back, because he very politely was turned around 180 degrees in his seat. For every single award, your man doesn't miss. But also, like, he's getting on in age.

Yeah. So I don't know whether I'm. You think maybe he had a girdle on? How do you think he was handling that? No, I mean, what do you think a girdle does? I don't know. Like, do you know where it's worn? Let's not, let's not.

I gotta ask Joanne what she thought about the show. Just, you know, let's just simmer down. So it's okay. I don't know. Joanne, what did you think? What did you think, Joanne? Did you like the show? I thought these are some of the worst presenter bits

I've ever seen in all my years covering award shows. I thought Nikki was great. I thought her bits were actually great, and I hate a host bit, but I thought all of hers worked really well. I thought the monologue was like, not the best I've ever seen, but really good. And I thought, you know,

we had a brief respite from the most embarrassing bits from presenters when Seth Rogen and Katherine O'Hara came up and their bit actually worked. And Seth Rogen called out the extremely terrible up close camera angle presenter situation that was in the room, which I loved. So yeah, I had an okay time, a much better time

in the back half when we got some genuine surprises. And to your point, Sean, they weren't surprises of like, that's the gloves being wacky. It's like, that's the globes asserting itself as an international voting body and just like really pivoting strong, uh, European flavor, European flavor in some of their surprise wins. So yeah, I liked it. I didn't love it. And to Amanda's point, I do think we used to get more just cameras roaming around the room. I think the thing there this year where they did the little like pop-up map of where everyone

was sitting was deeply uninteresting and didn't add anything to the enjoyment. And I think we're gonna have to wait for the in the room gossip from like the reporters that were in the room to give us like who was talking to whom sort of that we usually get from those milling around the audience glimpses at the Globes. The Globes are just nonsense. And so the celebrity nonsense is part of the enjoyment or it should be. Right. It didn't seem like anyone was having that much fun.

But again, maybe it was just the cameras were not focused on that. Yeah, I felt like the first hour, there was a kind of dead air quality to a lot of the presentation. I think the Globes, obviously, it's a television and film awards. We'll focus our conversations on the film winners tonight.

But because of that, it's a very long show. It's got a lot of awards to give out. It's difficult to even fit bits in between the awards. There were mercifully no musical performances. But you're right that the kind of like atmospheric quality of the show was significantly reduced. I also think that we're in an interesting transitional stage, star-wise, where we do have this very exciting young crop,

some of whom were nominated tonight. You know, Zendaya was nominated tonight. Timothee Chalamet was nominated tonight. They didn't speak. They didn't come on stage. There were jokes made at their expense or very warmly at their expense. And the camera panned to them from time to time.

But the show wasn't really about them. And I don't know that it was really about anything if you're looking for like a big theme. We can talk about what the actual awards wins mean, if anything, historically, they don't usually mean a lot, the Globes, but it's notable to me that we're not quite in the like Merrill clapping and pointing era,

we're not in the Jack Nicholson front row nodding as the mayor of Hollywood era. There's something, you know, as we all transition through the streaming experience and more people being interested in TikTokers than people who open movies, there's something unsettled about modern award shows right now. And I could feel it watching this one for the most part. It felt very geriatric. Like the star power that was there was like, and like with love and respect to our older stars,

but a lot of them, you know, like Michael Keaton or Sharon Stone or a number of the people who went up to speak, some of them were like struggling through, you know, reading the prompter or whatever. Michael Keaton nailed every moment of his presentation. Joanna, Amanda started tearing her clothes off and throwing herself at the screen when Michael Keaton appeared. Is really handling his later years with Grace.

And I commented on it. I thought you were already completely disrode when Andrew Garfield took the stage. I didn't know that there was an article of clothing left. We'll get there. Put a pin in Andrew Garfield. And Joanne and I are gonna go... How many would like to put a pin in Andrew Garfield? I guess... Yeah, it felt the Star power on stage felt older.

And not even like that old, but like Selma Hayek's here looking incredible with gray streaks in her hair, but like these are the stars of yesteryear are on the stage. And then even the awards that are going out are not anointing a new crop of like dewy eyed stars, which the Gold Globes used to like to do, sort of stake a claim on a new young actor or actress. So yeah, it's a very interesting situation we find ourselves in. Well, every year at the Globes, there are two best film winners. There's musical or comedy and drama. This year was, we have an interesting crop. I asked you at the end of our last episode how many films would be nominated for best picture from drama and how many would be nominated for musical or comedy.

I also asked you what would come first and what would come second in a telecast. This year they closed the show with musical or comedy. Which is what I thought would happen and I thought that Wicked would win because of this and have a big triumphal hooray for Hollywood kind of a moment. Yeah, but that's the that'soderbergh. And we do, no, no, no, no, no, no. That did not happen. That did not. Amelia Perez won. We don't reorder based on expectations. Yeah. And, you know, Amelia Perez is a movie

we've talked about quite a bit, Joanna, in the last few months. It's a movie that obviously is doing extremely well during award season. We saw it do extremely well at the Oscar shortlist. Did BAFTA shortlisting. And it's won here. It won a couple of awards tonight.

And I thought either Wicked or Nora were really the only options. And this has dispelled that. I'm still trying to personally sort out if that means anything at all. You mentioned the international voting body power, Joanna. I think that that's a factor here. when we look at best actress in a drama. You can also see that as a factor pretty significantly. But I was surprised. I picked Wicked. And if it was not going to be Wicked, I thought Enora for sure.

What was your reaction to the Emilia Perez win? Huh. But also there were indicators throughout the night. I mean, Jacques Odéard did win for... International, yeah. International feature, Zoé Taldanya won for supporting actress and then sort of won for El Mal, the original song, or at least she got up on the stage for part of the absolutely endless acceptance speech

for what was original song at the Golden Globes. So the momentum was there. And I just, as you said, Amelia Perez or Perez, which everybody switched on the emphasis. I guess if we're speaking in the original language, we're honoring the accent, if we're speaking in the English language, we're not. Sharon Stone, I think was using the French language

because she read that it was a French submission. Absolutely. So Perez. Perez. Yeah, sure. Listen, we're all international now. Yes. She read that it was a French submission? Absolutely. Perre. Perre. Yeah, sure. You know, listen, we're all international now. It has been on every list, everything.

It has been incredibly persistent. So I wasn't that surprised. I think I was more surprised than Enora totally blanked. It did. Not a single win for Enora tonight. Yeah. Totally blanked. It did. Not a single win for an aura tonight.

Yeah. Wicked, you could tell from the acceptance carnival for box office achievement. Yeah. And it reminded me a little bit of, I can't remember which awards show last year gave some sub-tier win to Barbie. I think like Barbie won best comedy or something. And then there was a very long acceptance speech. I think it was for cinematic achievement, was it not? Didn't Barbie win cinematic achievement?

Yeah, it won the box office award. Yeah. I have no sources here. I'm wondering if these individuals get tipped off that it's the only time they're going to be on stage. Because both circumstances have been a, this is my moment to give a speech. Well, for John, especially, I think they handed over to be on stage. Because both circumstances have been a, this is my moment to give a speech. Well, for John, especially, I think they hand it over to John because he's been so blanked in however, Wicked is being received. And we all know how Sean Ramena feel about Wicked.

That's not true. The National Board of Review said that he was the best director of the year. But that John is not going to get an award anywhere. And that if he's going to get a chance to give a speech, it's going to be here. And that was the sense of that. Yeah, I agree with that. I wasn't surprised by Emilia Perez winning again, because they nominated it so many times.

I didn't really necessarily want it. I'm glad it won international. I didn't necessarily want it to win, because I feel very mixed about the film itself. And I think there is a weird... I haven't talked to a lot of people who like this film, so I don't understand why it keeps rolling along. Zoe Saldana winning makes a lot of sense to me for other reasons, but there is almost this just sort of like, you know, rolling downhill momentum of Amelia Perez that does not feel connected to anyone's

emotion about that movie. You can make an emotional connection case for The Brutalists, certainly for Wicked, for Enora, you know, I've talked to people who love both inside the industry and out who love those movies and I'm just having a hard time finding people who love Amelia Perez and think it's the film of the year outside of people who work for Netflix. Yeah, while we were watching the show after this win, you said to me, what is this movie really about? What is the message of this movie?

What was the artistic intention of this movie? And you can take it apart, I have a fairly cynical and ungenerous reading of the way the movie works, but that it's a movie about like not burying your inner self, right? And becoming the self you always were meant to be to become a better and more fully realized person. Which I think is an idea that if it is resonating with voters for the Golden Globes or voters for the Academy Awards or BAFTA or whatever body, whatever group

of artists are voting on this especially, I think that makes sense. I think it's a very similar story for The Brutalist, which is a movie that maybe has a completely different emotional reputation. And obviously, I have made exceptional light of The Brutalist boys' gag here. But I think what you saw tonight in this film,

winning a bunch of awards, winning, frankly, the three historically big male awards, the best film for drama, best director, and best male actor in a drama, very sincere people, you know, who are very sincere about art. Sort of achingly and perhaps ridiculously sincere, but like, the two movies actually, when you put them next to each other, even though they have basically nothing in common superficially, they're about this kind of like belief in something that people like us tend to turn our noses up at, you know? That we tend to be like a little bit above. And I find it interesting that like something like Wicked or even something like Conclave,

which is such a confection, it's such a Hollywood product. You know, it's a good Hollywood product, but it's a very Hollywood product, very classical. It was the basis for many, many jokes tonight. Funny jokes, including I'm popular, which even I got. I thought it was funny. Enjoy that. Good job, Nikki Glaser. Certainly tonight and then throughout this season,

you know, I mean, a conclave is applicable to so many things, but there is something that people can latch on to with it. Yes, just think of the meal Billy Crystal would have made of conclave. I mean, he really would have soared with cardinal material. When she was doing popular, I got like, which was not, which was a good bit because she, you know, lamp shaded that it was a bad bit. But like, I got such strong Billy Crystal nostalgia. Yeah, major. It made me really hurt and miss him.

And that era, I think to your point about earnest messaging, something that we were talking about a little bit as the award show was going on, something we've talked about before the award show, something everyone says that the Golden Globes is a really good chance to audition for your Oscar or cement your narrative. Kieran Culkin has been the only main front runner and while the Globes, even in their new era, are not indicative necessarily of any wins at the Oscar, they are a chance for, you know, a gangbusters acceptance speech to sort of turn the tide. And I think there are like, you know, a few that we've already,

you know, talked about off pod that we'll talk on pod, but I think what Brady said about the brutalist and setting up the brutalist now in a way that Sean has been for a while as like a battle for the soul of Hollywood essentially, like a vote for the brutalist is a vote for the director's cut. Um, I think is, I don't think it was cynically done, but I think it was effectively done. And similarly, Amelia Perez comes out as this, you know, staring down the barrel of a Trump administration moment in Hollywood and is this going to stand as a reaction to that in some way? So that idea of like messaging and positioning the larger narrative, which has become increasingly important, you know, over the years as we've

all, all three of us have been covering the awards race, this idea of like, what's the story here? What's the narrative for this win? Kieran doesn't have one and, but he's already a lock, so that's fine. But Adrian Brody had to create one and he did. Demi Moore got a chance to create one. Zoe Saldana got a chance to create one. And so that's, that's what, that's what the Golden Globes, in this larger awards conversation, as you two will continue to have, really effectively does. What do you make of the brutalist win?

You haven't seen it, obviously. You're seeing it this week. Yes. I was about to give away what day. Uh... Are you excited? Um... Or are you apprehensive? I'll drop a pin and share it on Twitter when you go. Sue, thank you to the Big Picture community

who has been reporting back on their experience at the Vista. And I have to say, I'm mostly anxious about the line and how long one has to wait in line at the Vista while having already purchased a ticket to get in. So that's kind of where I am right now. And I feel like whatever's going on with the bathroom lines should also be applied

to outside the theater. That's what I think. That's just one woman advocating for all of us. But- I'll speak to the committee that organizes movie theater lines on your behalf. Thank you for championing women, Amanda, always. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, definitely.

Here we are, just doing my part. No, I'm curious. It is, and I've been trying so hard to avoid media about it, both because I don't want it to be spoiled and also because there's a certain flavor to some of it that I think could turn me off. And I don't want to do that. I would like to go in with as open a mind as I can

for someone who absolutely loath the film Box Lux. But tonight, it didn't put me off actually, the three wins. And you know, it was like teetering on the edge and even, you know, final cut tie, like, director, whatever. I was like, oh, no, we're going to a bad place. But it came back to a point of real sincerity. I mean, the inclusion of the daughter who looks exactly like him and her little face

just in the frame for the, I mean, the crying during the best director. My heart was going to explode. No, it was beautiful. Like, you know, I... The girl dad just jumped right out. Her dress, her little, like, manicure. Listen, I'm a monster and I was totally moved. It was great.

And then when it won best drama, the way the acceptance frame panned out, she was just like right there in the corner looking just like him. And I was like, okay, this is coming from like a real place. So my heart's still open, you know? Yeah. I mean, it's a tricky one, right? Because I think all movies, we have preconceived notions, right? And this one in particular, I think has done an amazing job of having a narrative around it, around its length,

which we heard from the announcer who I... He's probably still talking right now. The guy who is announcing after the wins of the Golden Globes. Golden Globes producers, if you're listening to this episode, never again. That producer, that person who talks when someone wins, cut that out. We don't need that, we don't want that. No one wants to hear factoids while someone walks to the podium.

Do not do it. Create a moment of grandeur. Sometimes they get a... Didn't they have like... They had a Do not do it. Create a moment of grandeur. Wait, but some years they get a famous person. But sometimes they get a, didn't they have like, they had a famous person do it one year and it was like actually kind of entertaining. I want to say it was like close. They're not getting Leonardo DiCaprio, dude. It was like Neil Patrick Harris.

Like it doesn't, we don't need that, Joanna. Make a moment of quietude before the speech. That's the whole point of award shows. Trick us into thinking this matters and it's not a fucking episode of You Don't Know Jack. I can't let Sean's awards show bible draw me in right now. We'll get to it later. I don't disagree with you on this. I didn't think that those comments were very good.

Sean, there was a bird fact about Nicolas Cage when he came out on stage. That was good. Pop-up video forever, okay? Pop-up video for children of the 90s. The geodesic dome that his pet, what kind of bird was it? It was a... Oh...

Crow, I believe. Thank you, Jack. It was a crow. Thanks, Jack. His pet crow, first of all, Nick Cage. You're the real one. Thank you, Nick Cage. Correct. I can just dispense with all of the facts. I don't want any of that stuff.

Geodesic dome. Hogan, Hogan. Okay. Hogan. Yeah, according to Google, but this is not, I mean. That's the crow's name. But that's also what I got when I Googled crow Hoover. So I don't know whether I'm misleading. No, it is Hoover.

The crow's name was Hoover. According to Rolling Stone right now, it's Hogan. Wow. Whatever. This is what happens when media is eroded in the way that it has been. We can't even figure out this crows name. This is shameful.

The thing about the voiceover, which you said in the moment, besides it being not good, was describing The Brutalist as a three and a half hour epic with an intermission and, you know, and the very, very solemn three wins tonight for The Brutalist made me, Amanda Dobbins, a professional film watcher who's like probably derelict in her job for not having seen it yet,

excited to see the movie. Does it make anyone else in the United States of America excited to see this film? I don't know. One of the things that Brady said that I thought was interesting in his second speech was as he was valorizing Final Cut and talking about the intention of empowering filmmakers,

is he used the phrase, it worked. Like my movie worked, my plan worked, which was if looked at in one direction, you could be like, wow, this guy's really full of himself. If you looked at another direction, you could be like, this movie just made a million dollars on like eight screens in a week, and now it's probably going to make north of $10 million, if not more, at the box office just in this country. Which, to his point, that is a movie like this working. And I think it's not dissimilar from the sentiments that were shared by Core Jefferson at the Academy Awards last year, right? When he was like, there's a middle ground,

there's a $20 million movie, there's a $30 million movie, let's not forget about these movies. I think he was really more in the spirit of that ultimately than I'm a genius and should be always given final cut. I didn't think he was saying I'm a genius. I think it reminded me of the conversations that have been bubbling around Nosferatu

or Complete Unknown, like the successes that we've seen at the me of the conversations that have been bubbling around Nosferatu or Complete Unknown, like the successes that we've seen at the end of the year with strong visions from directors that we know and love and who have been sort of building and building and building a resume. And Brady Corbet is not exactly that yet, though this has certainly anointed him into a new level. But I think that was the idea,

is just sort of like like let artists be artists. And even at the Golden Globes where we gave out a box office award to Wicked, we can still have genuine artists win across the board here. And like similarly, like something like Shogun, which yes, I mean, we're not here to talk about television, but like there, or Baby Reindeer was like the sentiment. Like this is a sentiment of like, this wasn't expected to be as massive as it was, but we

were allowed to do, to execute our vision. And in Hollywood, there's increasingly terrified to let artists be artists. Like that, that seemed to be the emerging message of the night. Totally. And I agree with all of it. And when I say that I don't know how broad of an appeal it had, I didn't mean believing in filmmakers.

I just meant a three and a half hour small in the art house movie. And that applies to the brutalist, but sort of across the board for the wins, which I think we like a lot of The Winds. It's very cool that a lot of these smaller films are being recognized, but if you're tuning in and you're not a devoted listener of this show

or a devoted letterbox user, are you connecting? Well, I want to say two things. Number one, Amanda, I just want to let you know, and maybe I've already expressed it on this podcast, I don't love The Brutalist. I like thinking about The Brutalist, and I like that it exists, and I like how much Sean likes The Brutalist.

I like that for him. But I personally am not enamored of The Brutalist. I thought Adrian Brody was really good. I'm really curious to hear what you think about it. So I'm not saying like it's a perfect film and anyone who says it isn't is wrong. But to your point about do we have to appeal to the masses? We want everyone to go to the movies. This is like we love the movies. We want everyone to go. But I think this is the conversation I know that you and Sean have been having and like all of us who've been covering awards have been having for years, which is like, yeah, we

want a Top Gun Maverick nominated. We want people to like get excited, but like, or is that era over and should we just lean into, you know, honoring the movies that really say something and do something and not worry about well, what will the wide appeal? Because the massive, everyone's tuning in to the Academy Awards moment seems to be, I feel like gone forever, we're not getting it back. So instead of trying to grasp at it, should we just lean into Amelia Perez

and the Brutalists, et cetera, et cetera, you know? Well, just to that point then, let me just say the names of the films that won awards tonight. Okay. Because I think you're pointing out something insightful here, Amanda. Amelia Perez, A Real Pain, Conclave, Amelia Perez again, The Substance, A Different Man, Flow, The Brutalist, Challengers, Amelia Perez again, Wicked, which was a box office win, I'm still here.

The Brutalist, The Brutalist, and Emilia Perez. So... So A24, A24, A24, A24, Netflix, Netflix, A24. Setting aside the original score win for the, for Challengers is Conclave, the highest grossing film, and maybe The Substance is the highest grossing film on this list. It might be. You know, that's kind of fascinating. Now, obviously, this is not voted on by a very large body.

It's only 300 or so people that are voting and they're mostly journalists and critics. They don't represent what SAG does or DGA or BAFTA or any of these other bodies that we'll see in the next two months. But it's fascinating that for this big fancy TV show, that like fucking Flow won. Flow, this tiny Latvian animated feature. A win for cat people. Yeah, which is up against a Pixar billion dollar movie and The Wild Robot, which is a big sensation,

and Wallace and Gromit, which is one of the most celebrated animated like story types, like, that we've had in the last 30 years. And fucking Flo won. So, and this is the Globes. Like, it's quite strange. It's the new Globes. And like, Amanda's right. Of course Amanda's right, perfectly,

and it's a great point. But I guess my question is, should I... I'm kind of tired of worrying about that. I am not worried. I do think it is extremely notable though, in part because last year, I don't know if this is going to be true this year, but last year the template felt very set, but the Globes more or less exactly predicted the Academy Awards. And if this is the Academy Awards this year, I'm gonna be like,

yo. The thing that we have been talking about and saying like, oh, well, we gotta keep people involved and how do we get back to 40 million people? Like, then we're, the book is closed on that conversation. Like, closed, closed. Like, we shouldn't even, I shouldn't even bring it up to you anymore. I want to be clear. Don't put it in the newspaper that I'm mad. I'm not concerned. But, you know, I will say this is an interesting awards year because for the last three months, when the season really starts heating up, I have been on the sidelines and I have been catching up

and sort of participating as a civilian and listening to you guys and trying to catch up. But I, so I do feel like I'm coming to it slightly more as a. Like a civilian. Yeah. A woman of the people. As I always have been, sure. Yes.

Speaking for everyone. Yeah, a populist. It's not that I feel turned off. I'm just a little like, huh, okay. You know, and I thought that that feeling was because it has been such a scattered awards year. And I think it was a scattered movie year, you know, like we all had our things that we really loved, but there hasn't really been a center. And, or maybe because I was like, well, when I catch up, I'll understand,

but it's just kind of a strange year and that's okay. And it's like, it doesn't, you know, the Golden Globes will live or on and the Oscars will as well, but it's a little strange. It is a strange year. It's of course a strange year post strikes and there are a number of other factors that are contributing to it. I think one thing that is probably worth citing, and of course I'm always in some sort of doomsaying mode because I'm inherently negative as a person,

but just because we're awarding- Should we get you a girdle? Yeah. Would that help? But like literally what do you think a girdle does? We're in perilously close to holding my arms in front of me territory. That was the Golden Globes last year.

It was, yeah. I better not say. What movie, well I just watched a movie and someone was saying that they, oh I think it was Nick Holt had to wear a girdle. No, Aaron Taylor Johnson wore a girdle every day during the production of Nosferatu, because it was meant to show the posture

that a man of his stature in that time period should have. Or was he trying to gain just a little bit more height to get closer to Nicholas Holt? Yeah, well, he should have gotten some lifts to make that happen, because he was a solid five inches below. Um, we stan Nicholas Holt. Yeah, well, he should have gotten some lifts to make that happen because he was a solid five inches below. We stan Nicholas Holt, our favorite co-host, Joanna. Okay, so the thing that can happen is, fine, Jack Nicholson, he's gone, Meryl Streep, Denzel, that's never coming back.

Denzel was in the room tonight. They showed him for like one second during his category. Let's, we know that era's over, right? We're in a different time. Netflix has all this spending power. Streaming has messed with movies. People don't like, don't care about movies as much as they did even 10 years ago.

It's all settled. What still will happen, which is of course the foolishness of award shows and all of our investment in them, is that they'll award smaller films, and in theory, better films, but then they'll also just give their big prize to Amelia Perez. And like, so that's a movie that nobody saw

and nobody, Joanna knows or I know, think is good. So then you're like, all right, so we're obscure, but we're also not giving Enora or The Brutalist the best picture either, you know? So it's a bit of a conundrum in terms of justifying its own existence when the films are small and bad. I'm not saying that that's what's going to happen

at the Academy Awards. If Amelia Presbyterian's the best picture, I'm not going to be pumped. I'll be so confused. I'll be confused. And I guess I will just have to eat my words that I said on this podcast several weeks ago about Netflix never crossing, the fact that they would cross

the finish line with Amelia Paris. Totally. And not all the other great films that have almost gotten there for them in the previous years, Roma or like Mank or whatever the case may be. It goes back to the spirit that you were conjuring while Amanda was out though, Joanna, which is that if it does win, it is that international thing.

It is Jacques Odillard, who is a widely acclaimed French filmmaker who's won the Pomme d'Or and, you know, who I said while we were watching the show, I'm like, this guy's made some great movies. I can't believe this is gonna be the movie that he's gonna get celebrated for in America. This is so strange. It is on Netflix where it is available just widely to everyone immediately.

So in some ways it's like a proof of distribution as much as anything. I mean, I will also be surprised. I think we got one step closer to Zoe Saldana performing El Mal at the Oscars tonight. And I, you all know how I feel about that. So. I'm pro that, especially if she's like...

I mean, listen, I guess... What if she stands on like the chairs, like you know, she does in the film, she stands on the tables. What if she goes out into the audience and starts pointing at the people in the audience? I think it would be better if she did it with choreography than if she just stood on the stage and performed it. Because I would say, despite the very handsome couple

who won a Golden Globe tonight, songwriting is not one of Amelia Perez's strengths. That was the other moment when Amanda completely disrobed during the telecast, was when Clemenne Ducal appeared on screen. No, that's not the other, there were several other moments. I did, listen. How many layers did you bring for them to group in? They're a very handsome French couple, you know? They just showed up.

She had great hair. She had like great European hair. She had French lady hair for sure. When Trent and Atticus won, I was so excited. That was dope. I was dancing. I was thrilled. And that was one where the announcer kept talking over. I believe that was Matchpoint that played during, because that's the one that I've run to

that's on my Mime Running mix. The tune, that's the name of the song. Yes. Trent Reznor and Akis Ross won for their score for Challengers, which we all love, which is amazing. And is Frank Lye not... I guess Trent Reznor is very famous, so you could say it does have the veneer of old globes, but you know, the guy who sang head like a hole is not exactly Frank Sinatra. So there's something unusual in even these more obvious choices. To me, it all felt very online. And I know that you were like, no, this is more about serious clout chasing. I'm online and then I'm offline.

But you know what? Sometimes it was my only portal to the world for the last three months. So, you know, I like seeing what the kids are up to. Yeah. You were like Haggard old Demi in the kitchen watching Mark Requally on the talk show every night. Wow. And like I basically was. We all are. That's the problem. That's why that movie works. We're all Demi.

But I think if we're awarding very online, like it's very online award punditry and not very online like all the kids are talking about Nosferatu right now. Right. Or, you know, the movie that would solve all of this that came out this year is Dune Part II. And the fact that a movie that is, was extremely popular and critically acclaimed and has great artistry going for it is completely vanished is one of the

biggest mysteries. I mean I understand why it's part two I understand the whole sequel question but Wicked is here and it's a part one so that doesn't like fully fulfill the prompt for me and maybe it's just that it happened at the beginning of the year and that feels like a million years ago and one whole presidential election ago or something like that. But Dune part two just completely vanishing is such, will remain an awards season mystery to me.

Was Denevil even in attendance tonight? It didn't look, it didn't seem like it. He's not nominated so I don't believe so. Zendaya was at the Luca Guadagnino table, which is where I would have chosen to sit, were anyone curious. Yeah. No, actually-

Did you not get invited to that table? No. I think I would pick the Conclave table, to be honest. Those guys are having a great time. Graves was having a ball. They were like right next to Zinchi. He was laughing. Yeah.

And then Lithgow, they were like one, two, three. That looks like the front table. Oh, my boys. Yeah. Yeah, but so that table was right in front of the complete unknown table, which is where Timmy was seated. Next to Kylie Jenner, by the way. I just want to note for everyone

that he brought Kylie Jenner as his date. They're dating, right? I know that, but it's like they haven't, they attended last year at the same time. They attended last year, and that was like a whole thing of them like sort of whispering to each other. It's a thing, you know?

That's not like their- Do you think they're in love? I hope so, you know? Cool. You think they're forever. I just, I am desperately curious what they have in common and I would like to know. And maybe I'm just-

I believe they have Riz in common. Yeah. Listen, and that's great, but will it last a lifetime? I would guess that they have spent 120 hours together total. Like that's it. And that's not even like this is a fake relationship. spent 120 hours together total. Like that's it. And that's not even like this is a fake relationship. This is just like, do you understand like their celebrity lives?

I'm so back in on Timmy. I'm not, we're not. I'm back in on Timmy. Who? Excuse me. No, but my question is, are we underestimating Kylie if that's my question. The interviews I've seen with him, I'm like,

this is my guy. This guy is pure comedy to me. My time measurement is not a judgment on either of them. It's just that they're both really famous. They're busy. Yeah, they're busy. Celebrity relationships are not like our relationships. They have not spent that much time together.

What do you think is Kylie's favorite Dylan record? I mean, which... Do you think Desire is celebrating an anniversary today? Do you think she's into Desire? When he was prepping. Can I throw a Dylan take at you? Yeah. One more cup of coffee is what everyone thinks

knocking on heaven's door is. Bang. I do this for a living. Wow, you just, standing ovation, the listeners at home just loved that take. I promise you. I just, I saw that movie. I still got my fastball, you know?

Three-year-old in the house, doesn't matter. I'm still cooking. It's 9 p.m. feels like roughly 4 a.m. right now. So I saw the movie and then I listened to the Complete Unknown podcast. And you and Mallory, once you start going into the history, like minute 90 of that podcast is some really intense stuff. You wept because of how sincere and thoughtful our takes were?

And you, no, I listen, I'm glad that you guys love something and that also you're way more sincere about everything with people other than me. So that's- I know, you bring out the worst in me. I know. No, it's just a different story. No, I agree that he's more sincere, but you obviously, obviously, clearly bring out the best in him.

I know, but you're just like warmer and nicer and just like sharing your feelings about Bob Dylan with everyone, just like a little much. You wouldn't have allowed me to do that. You know? I liked it very, very much. And I think I agreed with you most of the three. Like it's really just some performances.

Did we talk about it, Joanna? I don't know if we talked about it. You and I have talked, I think talked informally about it, but I don't think we talked about it on the pod that much. You did like it though. I did. I did like it, but I didn't love it. It's not great and it's not even as good

as Walk the Line is. So that's interesting. You agree with that too? Yeah. But I thought Timmy was really good. I think they're very different movies. They're interesting together, obviously. They're two representations of Cash.

I actually think Boyd is a better Cash. But he also, he just gets to be the foil and charisma and he doesn't actually have to do the whole, like... But you said you were listening to the soundtrack and there's a version of Big River that Boyd sings and I'm like, that's fucking Johnny Cash, man. He sounds like Johnny Cash. Joaquin does not sound like Johnny Cash.

I wasn't listening to the soundtrack. I went to... You said you pulled it up. No, I listened to the podcast. Oh, the podcast. And then I played Highway 61 for my son. Is this a podcast? They're different, but they're kind of...

But I played Bob Dylan, not Timothy Jollimay. They're different, but they're kind of the same in that, like, Mangwold was sort of trying to recreate a lot of Walk the Line inside of this Dylan... Yeah. Like, I think all of the Love Triangle stuff feels very much reaching for Walk the Line. Totally agree. And even the way that...

To the point he repeats a song that he uses in Walk the Line that is like a song of, a duet of tension... Beautifully, yes. ...in Walk the Line is repeated again in this, which was like a wild... And the way that Dylan and Joan Baez meet in A Complete Unknown is exactly the way that... Cushing, Carter, yeah, yeah, yeah. And kind of like the banter from the stage.

Speaking of Joan Baez, I just, why are we not talking about Monica Bobaro? Why was she not nominated tonight? Like, what are we, listen, as you said, she... I don't know, we really needed to nominate Selena Gomez. That's why. Elle Fanning being winning an award for that performance is one of the wildest things.

I was watching and I was like, wow, she's very good. They have great chemistry. She's so beautiful. This can't be her singing. That's okay. You know, you can't have it all. And then, like, she is, she's singing? that's her? She's unreal. What are you doing? I said it when we did the episode. I was floored. Also, as you said that's the hardest voice to nail. There's not a harder 20. I mean, I guess Maria Callas is the other person who would be the hardest 20th century woman to nail.

And as we know, Angelina Jolie did not perform those songs. But also, you said that you went to a Q&A and she said that she didn't, she learned to sing. Which I just like, does that mean like, is that, is it a learnable skill? Like, can I be Adele if I try hard enough? It's not too late for you, Amanda. And I support this new dream of yours.

And I'll be front row. I mean, I can't. I think she was amazing. But what are we doing? I learned how to sing and that's what came out. She's unreal. I agree. If Colin Farrell can win an award for wearing prosthetic makeup, then Monica Barbaro can win an award for singing.

I'm so sorry to tell you, the Penguin is great. And he's great at it. I started watching it over the break and I've been enjoying it. Let's just say. It's really good. And Christine Miliotti should have won in our category. Let's just say. It's really good. And Christine Miliotti should have won in our category. That's a fun part. You love her.

Palm Springs. Yeah, I'll never watch that show, but I'm happy for all of you. And I thought his acceptance speech was very charming, as is the way with Colin Farrell. So... Just to put a button on this conversation, I thought Timothee Chalamet was gonna win.

And Adrien Brody won Best Actor in a Drama. Now, for whatever reason, I've been telling myself that this won't happen again. You know, Brody won. He was the youngest winner ever in that category. Everyone agrees he's a great actor. This is a big upswing moment for him in his career. And, you know, he is magnificent in that movie.

There is no movie without Brody basically turning his soul over in the performance. So it's not like it's a good win. It's a notable win, I guess. And this is something that does happen with acclaimed actors is they have these waves in their careers. They win once when they're in their twenties. And then, you know, look at Denzel Washington. He wins for glory. And then many years later, he wins for training day. Or did he win? He did win for glory, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's not unusual, but I just thought maybe just because I was so gobsmacked by how solid A Complete Unknown was and how terrific Chalamet was that the tides would turn on this.

And the run that he has been on. There has been just like absolute coronation. He is our new Leo. Right. Right down to sitting next to Kylie at the Golden Globes. Right. So we both predicted it. Were you thinking Chalamet was gonna win, Jo? I definitely thought Timmy was gonna win. And like, the thing... You know, I don't think it's not sewn up that now Adriaan Brody is gonna win. It's just like... It was a big step forward for him in his campaign. It was a moment for him to create a narrative, which he did when he said,

I never thought I'd get the chance to win something like this again. And then talked about, you know, the, you know, his family, the immigration angle and stuff like that. Like that was his moment to create a narrative that Timmy has like, Timmy has the coronation narrative, but he doesn't have the comeback narrative, which has proven to be the most potent award season narrative, which of course Demi Moore made a meal of in her acceptance speech, which was, I think, inarguably the speech of the night. But Zoe Saldana similarly gets up and creates her narrative, which is like, you know, I've first of all, I've made you all millions and millions and millions of dollars.

I've done all of your pirates and Marvel movies and all of that. And this is something I care passionately about and don't I deserve to be here. And so that feels so much more solid than it did before. But yeah, to go all the way back, sorry, to best actor. I think it's interesting now. And I wonder what Timmy can do, because Timmy is running.

He's he's running. Yeah. And the interesting like Amanda, rightly so, sort of we were going back and forth while watching was talking about like all the people who are crying over their Golden Globes and sort of an overwrought way. But like when Zoe Saldana had her initial reaction to the win, to me in my head, I'm like, she knows she's going to win an Oscar. Like they read out her name. She was at the front of the pack, but not cemented. Kieran was cemented. She was sort of like almost there. They read out her name. She's like, I'm, this could happen. I could win an Oscar for this. And similarly when

Adrian Brody won, Timothee Chalamet gave us sort of like, welp, which is, um, I have a lot more work to do. Um, gave us sort of like, welp, which is I have a lot more work to do, I guess, sort of reaction. He liked me. Yeah, I was gonna ask you, you rightly identified Adrian Brody, like figured out his angle. He has, you know, if we're continuing the campaign narrative,

he has a stump speech. Do you, I don't know if he nailed his audition tonight though. Like the speech kind of took a while to get there. Do you, I don't know if he nailed his audition tonight though. Like the speech kind of took a while to get there. There was some Georgina Chapman in there where I was like, oh, okay, you know. He landed it. Yeah.

He landed it. I midway through, I texted a friend of mine who covers the word stuff and I was like, Adrian's not nailing his audition. And then he finished the speech and I felt like, Adrian's not nailing his audition. And then he finished the speech, and I felt like he really sort of brought it back. He did not nail it the way that Demi and Zoe did, but I think he made the case for himself.

Demi, for me, was the strongest. And that, to me, this went from, I don't know if she's gonna get a nomination, which in retrospect was stupid, to that, and that was my mistake, to she could win tonight. that, and that was my mistake. I don't think it was stupid. She could win tonight. She could win, yeah.

Yeah, and that happened tonight. That hadn't occurred to me until tonight either. Zoe Saldana was a little, I think I agree that it kind of solidified tonight, but I was like, are we peeking too soon here? And that might just be because of the amount of tears. As I texted, it was like, we have to stop crying over Golden Globes. They're not Oscars.

I don't even know who she's up against in this category. Ariana Grande is going to unseat her? I don't think so. I guess not. You know, I think, you know, I said it to you earlier tonight. When I saw Emilia Perez in the fall, my immediate reaction was like, not so sure about this movie. I'm a little iffy on it,

it's a lot of movie, I think that's a phrase that I use, but no matter what, Zoe Saldana is amazing. I had no idea she could do this in this movie. That was my sincere reaction. And I think that's how a lot of people are watching the movie. They're seeing the movie and they're like, whoa, the choreography, the singing, the rapping,

and then shifting into hard, dramatic performance in the middle of a movie like that, which is an often silly movie, is pretty impressive. I don't even think she needed to do, I think she could have given a completely banal speech and it really would not have mattered that much personally. Because I don't think that the competition is as stiff in this category as it is for Demi Moore and as it is for Adrienne Brody. I agree. There were just other little narratives bubbling. Like the Isabella Rossellini narrative was like bubbling for a little while. The Ariana Grande narrative has been there,

but like not, didn't ever really feel like solid. Did Zoe Saldana, was Zoe Saldana who was like, Isabella, I stayed at your house once. She did. And it felt like I had made it. Yeah. I had dinner at your house. That was good. That was good.

It was still too much crying for me. We're all Jennifer Lopez not winning her golden globe, you know, in that, in the documentary. Do you think before you die, you'll win a golden globe? And in what category? I don't know. Will you buy it for me? I wouldn't be winning.

Um, the, I think the, the closest competition she has in this category right now, actually, if the brutalist narrative catches fire is Felicity Jones. Because the brutalist sort of narrative could spread to, it's not gonna touch the porting actor here and has that. To the wife, but it's not. But like, yeah. Yeah, that's the wife, but it's not the normal wife, right? Well, let's talk after you see it.

Yeah, okay. Let's have a conversation after you see it. I suggested that possibility to Amanda on Friday on the show and I think I was just talking up my brutalist fantasies a little bit because I'm not sure if there's enough there and obviously people have more issues with the second half of the film

which is really more on the Felicity performance side. True. But it's not unreasonable. The Isabella Rossellini one would be quite silly. It doesn't mean that she doesn't give a good performance in Conclave, she does. She's just really not asked to do a whole lot. She's barely in it. Yeah.

Yeah. It would be a thanks for your career Oscar. She, yes. She Googles extremely angrily. Absolutely. And extremely memorably. She stands and she glowers a bit. So that's, okay, so the two Oscar memes

that I need that I don't have yet are, number one, Isabella Rossellini pulling something up on a computer and leaving the room silently, which is like me during every... what I wanted to during every podcast. And then has no one made a complete unknown, like, gazing face mashup of just like flashing at everyone's like really fast over and over again? Can I commission that? I haven't seen it, but I'm sure you could get a fan cam going.

Yeah, what Bob's tune should be played over that fan cam. Right, but then it's just like speed of light. All of them all at once just looking at him like, oh, I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you. It's a trope that is used also in Walk the Line, but exceedingly so in A Complete Unknown. I get it as a strategy.

They all look very beautiful while they do it. So that's okay. The gift that I would like to commission if we're just, you know, putting that out into the ether, and we do it sometime on House of R, so I approve, is if anyone has Willem Dafoe grabbing the cat at the end of Nosferatu, I would like that.

That's a good one. Okay. Other notable awards. I mean, we mentioned that Demi Moore did win I would like that. That's a good one. Please. Okay. Other notable awards. I mean, we mentioned that Demi Moore did win for actress in a musical or comedy, defeating Mikey Madison, who you and I both predicted, who has been the headlong front runner for months and months. Onora going home empty-handed.

And Wicked going home sort of empty-handed as well, aside from its box office achievement victory, and no acting performances being recognized either, is interesting. And I don't really know what to make of the Best Actress race, because on the drama side, we've got Fernanda Torres, from I'm Still Here. And that is another win that feels,

on the one hand, not globsy at all, and then on the other hand, we learned or we were reminded that Fernanda Montenegro, her mother was nominated 25 years ago for another Walter Silas movie, Central Station. So there is that classical kind of Golden Globes. We are a generation of generations of movie makers and artists, you know? And you know, is Fernanda Torres a Nepo baby? I'm not saying she is. I do also, but I'm not saying she's not. Right. Yes, you know, with Miss Golden Globe forever.

I do also think that, I believe it was Rebecca Ford from Vanity Fair who noted that someone from the Golden Globes Association told her that there are a lot of Brazilians on the voting committee. And as you pointed out to me, Sean, the Brazilian contingent, film contingent, is very proud of I'm Still Here.

A film I have not seen. The Brazilian people, I will just say, am I like, let me paint it with a wide brush and I'm so sorry to Brazil, but I'm about to compliment you. Are the most passionate fans I've ever encountered in my life. Come to Brazil, but I'm about to compliment you, are the most passionate fans I've ever encountered in my life. In any genre.

When they care, they care vociferously. And so, yeah, I mean, the Fernanda Torres narrative has been zooming around, but it was more like, let's get her nominated, not let's get her a win. So I was shocked and excited. I thought we were gonna get her a win. Uh, so I was, I was shocked and excited. I thought we were gonna get like a classic Globes, like a Kidman win. That's what I thought it was gonna be. That was my prediction as well.

And neither Angelina Jolie nor Nicole Kidman winning in that category is a real like, these ain't your mom's Globes. These are different Globes. And that's a good thing. I mean, the Fernandez-Roré's film, I'm still here to... Stop slandering moms. What do you mean? These ain't your mom's Globes. These ain't your granddad's Globes. And that's a good thing. I mean, the Fernanda Torres film. I'm still here. Stop slandering moms. What do you mean? These ain't your mom's globes. These ain't your granddad's

globes. Okay, thank you. I'm here speaking for everyone, but also the moms. I'm a mom guy. I don't know what you're talking about. I love moms. Okay. The Fernanda Torres one is interesting. I'm still here. Didn't really work for me as well as it has worked for other people. I've said like the four films that were anointed as the international films that everyone agrees on this year, which I think is like, All We Imagine is Light, See the Sacred Fig, Emilia Perez, I'm Still Here. I just, I couldn't get in any of those four films. And this one too, which I felt like... Non-American enough for you. No, no. How dare you?

Just kidding. Not American enough for you. No, no. How dare you? Just kidding. No, but I, it's, it's fascinating that like these awards races are just changing so much that someone like Fernanda Torres would not just win at the Globes, because I'm not sure that that means anything, but we should be like seriously considering her for a best actress win at the Academy Awards for a film that, you know, very few people

have seen this movie. I don't think it has gotten more than New York, LA release at this point, right, Joanna? I mean, no, but I think there's still a chance that she might not even get nominated. Like she... For sure. But like, Demi is definitely getting nominated out of tonight. Like there's... I will be...

I will do something. Once again, one is Paltrow. Patient zero of your in-subordination, you know, your surprise best actress nominees. So let's explore that, right? Because when, and for best musical or comedy female actor performance, I feel pretty good about Cynthia Revo, Carla Sofia Gascon, Mikey Madison, and Demi Moore being nominated. Do we think that those four will be nominated for best actress? Carla is the only question for me, but after tonight maybe it's not a question at this point. Yeah, and she got to have the big closing moment of this show, which is notable. So then there's

four that leaves one spot from the other women who are nominated in motion picture drama, unless there's another wild card out there that I'm not thinking of, but Pamela Anderson, which I think is unlikely, Angelina Jolie, who's been in the race hard the whole time. Nicole Kidman, who's, I would say has been right on the outside of the top five for the last couple months. Tilda Swinton for the room next door. Fernanda Torres and Kate Winslet. So if you're choosing one of those people, who is it?

Um, if it's me, it's Fernanda Torres. But like, I could see it being Nicole, it's Fernanda Torres. But like, I could see it being Nicole, you know? Yeah. I mean, I think Fernanda Torres is smart again from the international, you know, voting base. But then there's the part of me that's like, Kidman always finds a way.

She does. She really does. She does, in so many ways. Yeah, wait till you find the ways that she finds in Baby Girl. I'm, tomorrow. She finds a new way. Oh, you haven't seen Baby Girl? Oh my God. I cannot wait for the Amanda Baby Girl take. I mean, I'm...

I'm excited. I'm extremely excited. Coming soon to this podcast. Paris Dickinson was not in attendance at the Golden Globes tonight. Alas. Or at least he was not on camera. Um, the, to me... Okay. So the Nicole Kimmen thing, I, when I was sort of reading through people's predictions for the Globes, a lot of people were mentioning that Nicole Kimmen

had such a good TV year. And I was like, what do you mean? Ex-Pat was terrible, but then she had a Netflix hit and then she's also in Lioness. And so like she is around on the TV front. And then I was thinking about, for my sins, for my friendship with Mallory Rubin, I have just in the last week watched all of Landman, which, like, I really wish I hadn't. But next week is the finale. And they're setting it up for Demi Moore to have, like, a big finale moment in Landman,

which is a massively popular show. And so in terms of like her momentum, um, I was thinking about like the Matthew McHoney, a true detective, Dallas Buyers Club year. Like if you have a big TV year, it can really push you over the line if you need a little push. I was just saying that on the playground this morning with my daughter's parents, friend's parents,

Landman was the talk of the space. Yeah. At the monkey bars, it was all about Landman. Everyone's watching Landman. It's a terrible show. It's a really bad show, but it is. You will have to speak to CR about that. Because I've only seen one episode. I have. We have been texting about it.

I will say Ali Larder innocent, no matter what. The only thing I want to say in response to that is that Demi is having a big TV year, but Nicole Kidman's also having a big Netflix year because in addition to the Netflix TV show, A Perfect Couple, Please Do Not Forget, a family affair, a Netflix film in which Nicole Kidman falls in love with Zac Efron. Yeah. Right? Yes.

And she's, it's one of two times that she plays a bestselling book author. Before we get too far into this episode, I'd like to mention my favorite win of the night, which is Sebastian Stan winning for best male actor in a motion picture musical comedy, which is again, not something I would have ever predicted. And another symbol of a... I somehow changed Golden Globes. This is a very, very small movie that not a lot of people have seen.

Obviously, he was also nominated for his work in The Apprentice. And he's a great actor, and he's, of course, a very famous guy. He is Bucky Barnes, after all. But, um, I thought he gave a good speech. And I was, I'm now like, could this happen? I don't know.

Could this nomination happen? I don't think so. Because it's, it's definitely Adrienne Brody, Timothy Chalamet, Colman Domingo and Ray Fiennes, right? Agreed. Yes. And so that it's either Daniel Craig or Sebastian Stan, right? I think that's right.

And so... Daniel Craig is more famous and more beloved, but Queer is not as beloved. Is there someone outside of the box beyond those two that we're not thinking of? Well, I was wondering if there could have been a Jesse Eisenberg push, but he did not win tonight. That was something I was thinking about as I was making predictions.

And a real pain just didn't feel like the Kirin win is the Kirin win, but a real pain did not feel like it was present otherwise at the ceremony, right? No, not really. It didn't really have any other moments. And even the Kirin moment didn't feel like... I thought actually he spoke nicely of Jesse in the script and the movie, but another movie that not a ton of people have seen, that I guess probably is going on Hulu pretty soon. If it's not already there, is it even there now?

And by Hulu, I mean Disney+, which is where all Hulu content goes now. So... It's not also on Hulu? It is, but you know, they like... Everything is on Disney+. They're like, please watch Shogun on Disney+. Oh, so I don't need to have my Hulu? Well, it is, but you know, they like, everything is on Disney Plus now. They're like, please watch Shogun on Disney Plus. Oh, so I don't need to have my Hulu app anymore? I don't think, is there anything that is not of it,

that isn't available on Disney Plus at this point? I don't think so, I think all of Hulu is over on, I believe all of Hulu is over on. The thing is, I'm not really using, that's not true, I do use Disney Plus for Mary Poppins. There's a, so there's Hugh Grant, which does not feel like a possibility as much as we love him.

No. Girdle or no girdle. There is the... You know, Bill Simmons was asking me on his show on Friday if Heretic could get into the awards race at all here. I was like, I don't think so. No. No.

Things on the outside. I think if it had any chance, it would be screenplay. But I don't think it does have a chance at screenplay. Yeah, I don't think so either. The main issue with Daniel Craig versus Sebastian Stan, and I was talking to our friend, front of the show, Kitty Rich, about this. So I was like, you don't, she's like,

I don't think Sebastian Stan's getting nominated. And I was like, tell me why. He just gave this wonderful speech. We love Sebastian Stan. He's a Marvel star and he's tremendous in these two films. She's like, he's competing against himself. So Daniel only has to represent queer, but Sebastian Sam might split the votes on his own two performances.

Yep. And it stopped Steven Soderbergh from being nominated for traffic and Aaron Brockovich. Sure didn't, but you know, and you know what happened there. Ang Lee came through, right? The Golden Globes and just snatched it away, split the vote. Tough one. Hate when that happens.

But if we get Oscar nominee Sebastian Stan, I will be thrilled. That would be very exciting. That would be wonderful. Daniel Craig's been working very hard and wearing a lot of Loewe. And so I really, I really enjoyed press tour Daniel Craig. So I'll miss that. But I'm sure he'll keep getting hired. Let's quickly talk about Best Screenplay.

Okay, this was weird. This was Conclave's soul victory. This is the only movie I believe that is an adaptation. Is that right? I guess Emilia Perez was an opera. It was an opera, yeah. I haven't read the novel. Your mother's read the novel. Maybe we should call her.

Um, I don't know how much of a... It sounds like the... It's very similar structurally to the novel, from what I understand. Um... Are you asking the question, like, how much... How much should we credit this adaptation? I don't... I just don't know. It's unusual when it sticks out like this

alongside a bunch of original stories. Anora, the Brutalist, A Real Pain, The Substance, which are all original, which is something that I tend to overemphasize on the show. And they don't split adapted screenplay and original screenplay at the Golden Globes. Why? I have no idea. The Globes are doing whatever the fuck they want to do.

Why are there only six nominees for supporting actor and actress and 12 lead actor? I have no idea. Why is this the rules? I have no idea. The Globes are doing whatever the fuck they want to do. Why are there only six nominees for supporting actor and actress and 12 lead actor? I have no idea. Why is this the rules? I don't know. They're doing whatever they want to do. The Conclave win, I thought, could have meant one of two things. When it won screenplay, I was like, oh, interesting, well, sometimes that's what happens. They'll match a screenplay win with a drama win.

You know, or you'll have screenplay, and then you'll have best actor, and then you'll have drama. Like, you see a lot of tic-tac-toe formations historically. It turned out that the tic-tac-toe formation in this case was actor, director, and best picture for the brutalist. So... I'm not really sure where Conclave stands. I will say I read a Megyn Kelly tweet, which was very scornful of the film Conclave.

And when I read that tweet, I thought to myself, that smells like a best picture winner. Someone who, a film that the far right hates, that will become a cause celeb in an awards race, we've seen this story before. But now, and you know, the Globes may not be impactful in that respect, but just one win felt a little scant to me.

Yeah, I know we keep saying, no, I don't think, I think Conclave is, is dropped in its chances, but in terms of its screenplay chances, or this is a screenplay win, I was reminded that Erin, I know we're talking about this as new Globes, not old Globes, not your grandfather's Globes, but, um, Erin Sorkin has won three Golden Globes for film screenplay. And this was like such a Sorkin-y type of story that it seems like sometimes it reminds me of when the movie, sometimes the movies they get nominated for sound or win for sound or the movies like the most sound or the movies with the most editing.

So like, is it the movie with the most talking that, uh, you know, is going to win a screenplay award sometimes, occasionally? I, if, if it were old globes, I would have expected Conclave to be kind of the, has the feel of prestige and fan, and, you know, as fancy and Renaissance paintings and, you know, celebrated actors, but is kind of a trashy airport book, dressed up with hats. Great hats.

Should we wear hats for the... The Cardinal hats? Yeah. I want Tedesco's vape. That's what I said. You in a tux. Yes. Sean in a gown.

And Sean as Tedesco, yeah. And then Cardinal hats. Yeah. Yes. Sean in a gown. And Sean is Tedesco, yeah. And then Cardinal hats. Yeah. This is a war! I was so happy when I saw that they used that scene to show Peter Strawn's writing in the film Conclave. I love that scene.

I wish Tucci could have had like five more scenes like that in that movie. Yeah, I don't know what to make of where Conclave stands. I guess it does feel like it's falling a little bit, but it's also like, it's impossible to know how indicative the Globes are in any given year, because last year they were wildly indicative. The year before that, a little bit less so. The year before that, Fableman's won drama,

and not everything ever rolled a once won comedy, I can't even remember what it was, but they didn't predict that race at all. And so, both of those administrations were the new Globes. So I don't, it's a little bit hard to say. I think we'll obviously we'll learn a lot more as we get SAG, PGA, DGA, and then BAFTA's windows down its list in the next few weeks.

Can I ask you how you feel about Wicked right now? Should we, is, you know, is the... I don't think a lot has changed. I... It's a good question. Is the good witch here in the room with us? Yeah. Galinda, show yourself. I don't...

Amanda wants another chance to unload on Wicked. No, I just, I think old Globes would have been like, well, that's over because... No, and now this is a critics group now. That's what this is and Wicked is not a critics movie. You know, it's a populist film. And the thing that is going for, that is good for Wicked, I think, is that at the Academy Awards,

there are a lot of other categories where Wicked will be recognized. On the flip side? Yeah, costume, makeup and hair styling, production design, like, you know, it's going to be on down the line. It's probably going to get six or seven, maybe even nine nominations. But the film that won cinematic box office hairstyling, production design, like, you know, all that, it's gonna be on down the line. It's probably gonna get six or seven,

maybe even nine nominations. But the film that won cinematic box office achievement last year was... Barbie. Barbie. And it, this could very well be Barbie. In fact, it probably is this year's Barbie. And it should be. That's where Wicked should be.

Barbie is better than Wicked, Joanna. Barbie is way better than Wicked. I love Barbie, you know that. Let it, you know, say it again. Barbie is better than Wicked? There we go. It's very easy for me to say. No problem there.

It's not hard for me to say either. I didn't like love, love, love Wicked. I liked it better than I thought I would, is how I feel about Wicked. Did you know the animals sing? I did, I did. Did that, was that, is that what broke you? That's so early to break you know the animals sing? I did. I did. Did that, was that, is that what broke you?

That's so early to break you in the film when... I didn't know what was coming. Yeah. And I will also say that was a goat, right? I thought the goat was Rupert Everett. And then when I found out it was Peter Dinklage instead, I was, I thought, I think it would have been cooler with Rupert Everett. What a compliment for Peter Dinklage's terrible English accent

that he thought it was an actual Englishman. It was ridiculous that they just had him Tyrion all over again. That was ridiculous. It was someone being a goat, you know? I didn't think Rupert Everett was putting his whole heart in it. That's fair. Really phoning it in for the goat role in Wicked, yeah. I'd just like to cite two very funny joke moments from the monologue that I enjoyed.

The first was the Selena Gomez, Benny Blanco's genie joke, which was mean, but great. And the second was the Adam Sandler, shadow me. Uh, which I just, that that's a, that Nikki Glaser is a woman or the woman who the person who wrote that joke is a person who understands Adam Sandler. And Adam Sandler is a person who understands the moment and knows how to come through.

The fact that Sandler like came in on the bit is what made the bit to me. Absolutely. It was like slightly floundering and then he came in and I was like, this is the best. This is wonderful. There's no one better. I thought it was a good monologue.

Again, this is my introduction to Nikki Glaser. Good job. Very successful comedian, Nikki Glaser. Will you explore her works? I don't know. I mean, this is good, right? Like, we have something nice. We have fond memories. You know, I'm not sure about. Why ruin a good thing? Yeah. We had one great date. Why have another?

You know, we'll hold on to the memories. But it was never fully mean. We had one great date. Why have another? Yeah. You know, we'll hold on to the memories. But it was... it was never fully mean. It was a little sharp, but never mean. Most of the targets were like industry streaming service, that sort of thing, as opposed to people. And the people, with the exception of a couple, you know, ditty jokes that... I don't know if we needed them.

A little soon. Yeah. Or just like, was it that funny? I don't know. Even needed them. A little soon. Yeah, or just like, was it that funny? I don't know. Even the glancing ones were amusing. Like whatever the Ben Affleck joke was about, you know... Things he called out in bed. Yeah, that was funny, you know? And Ben Affleck can handle that. He can take it.

I need to call out a very important cultural moment, which is when Vin Diesel acknowledged the rock, and the rock just shot daggers back at Vin Diesel. This was going to be my closing discussion point. Thank you for your perfect timing. No, perfect timing, Joanna. No, if you want it to be close, it's not closing. Joanna and I have one more moment. Okay, why don't we do Dwayne and then we'll do Andrew.

Drama and then comedy. Is that what you're saying? Vin Diesel presenting the Cinematic Box Office achievement, if it is a knowing gesture to his works and then him coming forth and saying, I'd just like to point out that I am the man who has worked with Steven Spielberg and Sidney Lumet and many other great filmmakers and while dunking on Dwayne Johnson sitting in the crowd, who I guess is there to promote Red One. I got to tip my cap. Moana 2. Moana 2.

Well, that movie's coming out in like 11 months. It's... We're gonna get another Dwayne... We're getting the smashing machine before we're getting Moana 2, right? Moana 2 is out. Oh, I'm thinking of the live action Moana. You're right, Moana 2. You're right, Moana 2. I guess that's true. I don't...

It's not playing in your house? You know what? She hasn't called for a viewing of the film at home. Oh. Because we do have a screener. Okay. She calls for them? Does she like call you forth?

Yeah, she rings the bell. She says, master, come down. Please turn off. Yeah. That is how it feels sometimes. Okay. Okay, sorry, you were talking about... I mean, Vin dunked on Dwayne Johnson. And Vin Diesel just sucks.

Like, he's terrible and he makes bad movies. The Fast franchise is horrible. I hate it. But like, he kind of won? That introduction alone was like 45 minutes. It felt that way. It went on and on and on. He fell asleep on stage twice. He was incredibly self-important. And yet, he was kind of victorious in that moment.

In that one moment. I think he won briefly. Did, you know, one of my favorite award season things is that they bring people out to like, promo their new thing. Were there any upcoming projects that you were like, a little bit more interested in because you saw the stars of it present an award tonight? You were like tingling when you saw heard about the Gorge and I explained the premise of the Gorge.

You were like, good God, this is like the last time I saw Michael Keaton. I feel something extraordinary. I was I was honestly looking at Miles Teller and was wondering, like, whether he got dressed, like, what his Sunday was like and where he watched the Eagles game and how he fit that into, like, his prep. And, you know... He definitely had Vikings Lions on his iPhone, like, in between presentation. Yeah. No question.

Go Birds. Sadly, I did not. Hi, Miles. That's right. Yeah. Big Eagles guy. Yeah. I don't think there was a single thing that was being promoted that I... I'll go back to Seth Rogen and Katherine O'Hara and say the studio on Apple TV+.

I am excited for that show, for sure. And that, you know, that whole bit, Seth and Katherine O'Hara are favorites of mine, but it felt like they just wrote it together instead of the Golden Globes writers. 100% they wrote that. I mean, this is Seth's comic voice coming through in this bit. of mine, but it felt like they just wrote it together instead of the Golden Globes writers. 100% they wrote that. I mean, I was like, this is Seth's comic voice coming through in this bit. Yes. So yeah, I'm looking forward to it. That's a good point.

I'm looking forward to that show. And there's a few moments of that. Nate Borgazzi definitely wrote his bit and they gave him a stand-up mic to come out. They let him feel comfortable in his own. So there are a few moments where it was clear that the people actually wrote the bit. Not you you Kate Hudson and Mindy Kaling, but Seth Rogen and Katherine O'Hara just like really... I gotta tell you Kate Hudson delivered her half with gusto. Yeah, but Mindy... I don't understand. I mean, I'm with you. Yeah.

Should we talk about Andrew Garfield? So Sean was in the bathroom. Sean was in the bathroom. So he missed this. He missed it. Can we show him the video I sent you? I've seen it many times now. Okay. So, you've watched it. I have. So, let's start with the glasses. With the reading glasses.

Put some context around what you're talking about. You're making it sound like it's a recitation of the Bible or something. It's like an actor got on stage in an award show. What was he presenting? I couldn't tell you. It was Demi. It was Demi, because he was in the background of Demi's speech, that's part of the whole thing. Right, so he gets out there and turns to the very close camera

and finds his light, as he does, and pulls out the frames. I don't have an ID on the frames, but, know, I'm sure. All over people's reading glasses. Yeah. Yeah. At the very least, right? Yes. Yes.

And looks, he doesn't, he's not looking directly in camera, but he knows he has his angle to put on his reading glasses while he is fiddling with the button of his shirt to make sure it's properly undone to show half of his chest and his pendant, which I have been reliably informed was a David Yehrman pendant in case anyone was curious. The green pendant that matches the emerald green, and by the way, emerald green,

really the color of the night. A lot of green suits on the guys, some great green gowns. That's just my Vanity Fair coming through. A glowing emerald around Rachel Brosnahan's neck that I noted with interest. I was going to give you a moment to talk about Rachel Brosnahan if you wanted to. She looked wonderful. I made an old man comment while I was like, hello, Lois. How are thee?

Exactly. Yeah, she looks amazing. I can't wait. Can't wait for superman. So you understand how we feel. I'll be there. You understand how we feel. How you felt about Raoul Fientel-Brasil. But I also feel that way about Andrew Garfield.

Like I also will make out with Andrew Garfield. I'm on the record about that. Let me be very clear that part of my reaction is like the Andrew Garfield experience these last three months, which I was on the sidelines for. I just, the whole, we live in time press tour of the horse, the chicken date. Oh my God.

The elmo, I mean, the elmo is when I sent you. Crying. Incredible. Yeah, the modern love, the crying. Like my guy is out here and it has really been something to behold. And the level of self-knowledge and intention with which he angled that pendant right into the camera

and then put those reading glasses on. Like, my guy's having a great time at the parties tonight. When you... I want to shout out, uh, very on brand for Big Pick, I think. His stylist is, uh, Warren Alfie Baker, who is also Glenn Powell's stylist. And like, he is maybe my favorite. Like I actually don't follow a lot of stylists, but like the work that he has done with Andrew Garfield and Glenn Powell has been extraordinary.

Um, and you can kind of tell his work when he works with other people. But, um, when, when you rewatch Demi Moore's speech, which you should, because it's a masterclass in Golden Globe speechery, please watch Andrew Garfield realize when the camera is on him and watch him adjust his stance and sort of be aware that he is in the background of a shot. He's an actor, okay?

He's a performer. He knows where light is and he finds it and we love that for him. Good for him. Yeah. I'm very happy for him. He was up for no awards whatsoever. And yet he won anyway.

And yet he won. He made a very memorable appearance. A related important question I need to ask Amanda. Emma Stone's hair. Yeah. I mean, she looks beautiful, you know? If anyone was made to do the, you know, the pixie... Yeah, the Gene Seberg. Exactly. She looks fantastic. I loved the dress. Anyone was made to do the, you know, the pixie... Yeah, the Gene Seberg. Exactly. She looks fantastic.

I loved the dress, like the styling and everything that went with it, I thought, and the color. So, very pro. Reportedly, because her head is shaved in the film Begonia. Right. The new L'Anthimos movie coming out next year. Is she gonna make movies with anyone besides him? No. Okay.

No, I spoke to her. She said, I'm gonna do 40 more L'Anthemose films. And they're all sequels to Kinds of Kindness. She's gonna tell that story for another 50 or so years. Did not see Jesse Plemons once on the screen. Was he there? Well, Kirsten Duns posted a photo of her getting ready and her hair being done.

I hope he's having a tall whiskey right now. I didn't see him on the screen, but I saw him on the red carpet. And he looked nice in a tux, but suitably rumpled as he always does. Did I miss all the awards for Civil War? Was I in the bathroom for this? You were in the bathroom, yeah. Shoot. It's a shame.

Too bad. Any closing thoughts? Will you return to the Golden Globes again next year? Sure. It's my year. Listen, I'm available to be a seed filler. You know what's going to be really painful? When you defeat Jennifer Lopez at the Golden Globes.

That will be your ultimate triumph. Wow. Did you see Soderbergh on his annual culture list? He watched both Jennifer Lopez's musical length, music video, whatever. Feature films. Sure. It was 40 minutes long. Yeah.

And then he watched the documentary. He is a completist. Have you seen those, Joanna? I have not had the pleasure. Okay. Would you recommend? You really need to watch the documentary. You think so? I would say had the pleasure. Okay. Would you recommend? You really need to watch the documentary. You think so? I would say you don't.

You actually, I mean, there is a lot more access than I would have given, especially where I've been Affleck. But he's in there yelling about cameras, so it's quite something. And Steven Soderberg has seen it. If it's good enough for Steven Soderbergh, is it not good enough for you? Can't we all agree that that's what the Globes should be? What you're describing of the Jennifer Lopez documentary is what the Globes should be. The Globes were famously like,

a drunken, like, free-for-all, where the booze was not flowing the way that it needed to be. I don't know. I don't know what to tell you. Yeah, it was a little stayed. And then I, and also I don't have any idea where the Oscar race is going to go. Do you think Fernanda Torres is shit faced right now? Somewhere. Clutching a globe. That's the social clip guys.

Please clip Sean saying, do you think Fernanda Torres is shit faced right now? Um, Joe, anything else? I mean, do you think this is actually gonna impact the Oscars, I guess? That's the thing that we're gonna end up talking about. You do. I think you should be feeling really good right now, Sean, because I think the brutalist is in a really good position. Hmm. Oh, congratulations.

I don't know how to feel about that. That's interesting. Your takeaway isn't, though, that Emilia Perez is just, is coming for everything that isn't Demi Moore's Oscar? Power positive thinking, I'm going to say I would rather the Brutalist over Emilia Perez. Okay. So yeah.

Hmm. So interesting. You know, the Brutalist does kind of sort of fit the mold of what I think the Academy is now. Okay. Kind of sort of fit the mold of what I think the Academy is now. Okay. Kind of sorta. Not entirely, because it's obviously gesturing at an old style of Hollywood film, but it's also gesturing at a completely different

European style of film. We all like the Godfather, you know? I know, it's just, it's, I think it's a little bit of a red herring about what the movie is. I think the movie is way more a European version or like a George Stevens movie from the 50s than it is a Coppola movie. But I could be wrong. People would disagree, you know.

I think Brady winning director feels very big to me anyway. Yeah, I thought he did very well. And as someone who is a big fan of that movie, and I really like talking to him when he was on the show, I had the same concern that you did, where I was like, ooh, don't be too pretentious, don't be too, you know, eyes agog with your own vision, you know? And I think actually reading his speech weirdly helped a lot.

Yeah, I was nervous again. You got to print these things out, everyone. You know, not on the phone. But I completely agree. No, no, I'm not going to disagree with you. I'm going to say Jacques Adyard getting out three pages of the paperclip made me so scared, but he only read the top page. But he was going for so long and he still had many more pages, paperclip together, and I was like, what are we going to do?

It was in 72 font though, so it was okay. I was really worried. Yeah, who would you have said was the best director front runner before tonight in the Oscar race? Sean Baker? I think he and Sean Baker have been one and two the whole time. And both of them are the vision peak guys. I think with Mikey no longer being necessarily the like solid front runner.

And like, this is a, this was a, this is a real falter for Enora and a real leap forward for the Brutalist is what I would say is my takeaway. It was. It was. I still think Mikey's going to win. I still do. I think this is a very different group. I think it depends how Demi plays in the next few weeks.

The Demi win will feel like the Jamie Lee Curtis win in many ways. And then we'll look back. And I think the Demi performance is superior to the Jamie Lee Curtis win in many ways. And then we'll look back, and I think the Demi performance is superior to the Jamie Lee Curtis performance in everything, everywhere, all at once, but has a similar kind of framework. Like, this person is kind of a genre legend and a Hollywood legend. Right. And we're acknowledging their body of work. The Michelle, it was all of this Michelle Yeoh, Kiwi, Kiwi Juan, like all of them.

But like, in the movie that is also doing that, acknowledging their body of work. Right. It was all of those Michelle Yeoh, Kiwi, Kiwi Juan, like all of them. In the movie that is also doing that. So to me at least it's like the project is the idea at the same time. So if she wins the Oscar for The Substance about that, like okay. Right. It adds up. What was your favorite win? As I said, I really enjoyed Colin Farrell. That was for a TV show I will never watch.

So, um... Thanks. Thanks. And then the, and Craft Services, Carolina. That was lovely. That was really... And the Coconut Water. Yeah.

He's shouting out Andrew Scott in the movie we made 25, 30 years ago. You can't find on Betamax. Yeah. Incredible moment. Very charming. That's my answer. All my Irish homies love those guys. Joe, favorite win? Can I give you a TV win on this film podcast? Yeah, of course.

Please do. You're a TV expert. Tadanobu Asano. Tadanobu Asano for Shogun. His speech was awesome. Yeah. It was very short and I think he said, this is such a great gift or such a great present and it was like, peace out.

Yeah. And I think that's how most speeches should be. And his translator came out with him, but he didn't use, and it was like, peace out. Yeah. And I think that's how most speeches should be. And his translator came out with him, but he didn't use her, and he just like, soldiered through. And he was snubbed for the Emmy when he should have won. So this is like a real... Shogun won all, you know, all the same things that they won the Emmys plus Taranovu, and this is like, I loved him. He was wonderful. So my favorite great pick. What was your Sean? Sebastian Stan was my favorite. I think that was the most unexpected and cool And I thought he did very well and it would be exciting to see him get recognized because he is one of the only

MCU IP actors who actually uses his powers for good and makes interesting, challenging films. And I appreciate that. I mean, Zoe Saldana, let's give her some credit. And then also... She absolutely did the same thing. I totally agree. And did you see that we got like fact-checked on our Chris Evans take, Sean? What was the take? That his two, like his upcoming projects,

he's doing a Celine Song film, and then I forget what the other one is, but he's got like a couple really good upcoming projects. He does. He's the star of Materialists, just coming out later this year. I'm psyched. Alongside Dakota Johnson and who's the third? It's a film about a matchmaker. Pedro Pascal, right?

Pedro Pascal. Inspired by Celine Song's stint as a matchmaker. Wow. A professional matchmaker. So that'll be an interesting movie. You're right though, that Chris Evans does have two cool movies coming out. You guys were a little... We were tough. We were tough on Chris.

Chris Evans is your guy? Since when? He's been doing this show for years. What are your favorite Chris Evans performances? What? She loves the Boston guy. Amanda loves the Boston guy. I don't know. I was listening to him and I was like,

well, this is kind of mean, you know? But you didn't husband a red one. Did you spend any time watching Red One? You didn't watch Red One. I was ghosted. No, my husband did. I opted out of that experience. If you had, you would have known. Sure.

We were entirely justified in our discussion. We were. But if Materialist is great, I'll be back on the train. The whole point of that conversation was, this guy was in Knives Out and Snowpiercer and Sunshine. He knows what is good. Make good movies. That's all I want. Okay.

I don't want to end this note on dissing Chris Evans again. That's not... Yeah, he's your guy. You can call him. Pretty... I would say a mixed award show in terms of the quality of the telecast. I liked the host. I thought she would do well. She did do well. Just a very high-minded and mostly very good set of awards. Yeah.

This is just really funny. I really thought you were gonna come on here and like gloat, Sean, because I really think... That's not what it's about. I'm not trying to exclude anyone. I think that that's a great film and people should try to, like, meet it where it wants to be met. Like, I'm really... I have no interest in like lording any of this over anybody because nobody's even seen this movie yet. And when they see it and they understand that it's not me, a sad

podcaster, like trying to do a bit. It's actually a way more sincere and sophisticated story about pain. Then they'll understand like why it's winning awards like this. But then again, Amelia Perez won too, so who the fuck knows? That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, who knows? Okay, well, we'll pick up this conversation again.

You're not done. You were trying to insinuate somehow that you're like not coming back for the rest of award season, but you're definitely coming back and we'll find out when the right times are. You definitely have to keep helping us power rank best picture nominees. You've taken us this far, Joanna, okay? It sounds like a joy to me. Okay. Thank you for staying up with us. I really appreciate it.

Lovely to see you. Listen to Joanna on the myriad podcasts that she hosts here at The Ringer. We used to let her name them, but we won't do that tonight. Thank you so much to Jack Sanders for his video production work and the delivery of... And for a coffee cake. It's really nice. My last podcast before leave, there was a coffee cake from Bobby, and the first podcast was second podcast back, but a coffee cake from Jack. It's very kind of both of you. And it's delicious.

Bobby was also a giver of this coffee cake as well. Thank you to Bobby Wagner, our producer on this podcast for his work. We'll be back very soon. In just a few days, we'll be discussing the film Baby Girl, once you've had a chance to see it. And we're gonna build a hall of fame for Nicole Kidman. And I'd like to tell you something. I believe Nicole Kidman has made 45 movies this century.

Yeah. That's not a joke. She's also starred in five television shows. And she is the face of AMC. In this century. And are television shows eligible? Well, I don't know. Okay. Oh, this is exciting. Because who has a bigger and broader and bolder CV than Nicole Kidman? I'm not sure if anyone

we've ever talked about on the show does, but we will talk about it very, very soon. We'll see you then.