The Big Picture - The 2025 Movie Star Rankings: 35 Over 35. Plus: Nicolas Cage!

Episode Date: May 6, 2025

Sean and Amanda briefly react to the news that President Donald Trump wants to impose a 100 percent tariff on any films produced outside of the United States (1:46). Then, they react to the new trailer for Spike Lee’s film ‘Highest 2 Lowest’ and discuss ‘Another Simple Favor,’ the sequel to ‘A Simple Favor,’ starring Blake Lively (7:41). Later, they create their 2025 Movie Star Rankings, where they select and rank the 35 biggest movie stars over the age of 35 (21:11). Finally, Sean is joined by Nicolas Cage to talk about his new film, ‘The Surfer’; what attracts him to certain projects at this stage of his career; and the actors who have inspired him as a performer (1:51:17). Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guest: Nicolas Cage Producer: Jack Sanders Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Look, it's not that confusing. I'm Rob Harvilla, host of the podcast 60 Songs That Explain the 90s, except we did 120 songs. And now we're back with the 2000s. I refuse to say aughts, 2000 to 2009. The Strokes, Rihanna, J-Lo, Kanye, sure. And now this show is called 60 Songs That Explain the 90s, colon the 2000s.

Wow, that's too long a title for me to say anything else right now. Just trust me, that's 60 Songs That Explain the 90s colon the 2000s. Wow. That's too long a title for me to say anything else right now. Just trust me, that's 60 songs that explain the 90s colon the 2000s, preferably on Spotify. I'm Sean Fennessy. I'm Amanda Dobbin. And this is the Big Picture, a conversation show about movie stars. Later in this episode, I'll be joined by a movie star. His name is Nicolas Cage.

Longtime listeners of the show know what a fan I am of Cage's work. His new film, The Surfer, is another fascinating chapter in his exploration of the surreal, psychedelic, and terrifying. Nicholas was a classic big picture guest. He is obsessed with talking about movies, so please stick around for my conversation with him. Spoiler alert, he does not figure into our 35 over 35 movie stars list, Amanda. We will be building that list again in its entirety.

How did you find this exercise? Fun. Okay. I like it find this exercise? Fun. Okay. I like it. I like it too. You think the listeners at home will enjoy it as much as we do? Definitely. They like all our lists. They understand how list making works and they share our opinions about movie stars

and movies at large. I wonder if they share our opinions about American politics. Great. Because before we get to our list, we have a couple of things we need to cover off on. Super important. Yesterday on the Truth Social media app, President Donald Trump. Is it an app? I honestly don't know.

I've never opened. I've never sought it out. I only see it when it is screenshotted on X and shared or on Blue Sky. I saw it in both places yesterday. Many people let me know that the president has weighed in on movies. This is what he wrote on that app. The movie industry in America is dying, all caps,

a very fast death. Other countries are offering all sorts of incentives to draw our filmmakers and studios away from the United States. Hollywood and many other areas within the USA are being devastated. This is a concerted effort by other nations and therefore a national security threat. It is, in addition to everything else, messaging and propaganda.

Therefore, I am authoring the Department of Commerce and the United States Trade Representative to immediately begin the process of instituting a 100% tariff on any and all movies coming into our country that are produced in foreign lands. All caps, we want movies made in America again." Now first they came for democracy and I said nothing. Then they came for basic human rights and I said nothing. And now that he's come for movies, it is time for me to speak out. I can't let this stand.

This is absolute gobbledygook bullshit. Yeah. And it also sucks. It like, it sucks that we are being roped in to this circus because it is so clearly, I mean, I don't know whether his strategy is at levels where he's thinking this is a diversion from all of the truly horrific and scary and outrageous things that are happening in this country by this government, by Donald Trump's orders.

But now we got to spend time on this things that are like are truly newsworthy. But also he's complicating a thing that really is a problem. Correct. But also he's not, he's just making it worse. And so now we have to be bullshit cable news people being like, well, you know, the tariffs function under the whatever act of the something like I can't believe we have to do this. This fucking sucks.

We don't technically have to. I think it's worth addressing because obviously he's a celebrity. He instituted these celebrity ambassadors to Hollywood in his administration. It seems like he spent the weekend with John Voight and they basically, I don't know, had a few pops and decided to start talking about how to fix Hollywood, which, you know, obviously what's happening in Hollywood is obvious. We've talked about it quite a bit,

especially in the aftermath of the strikes, which is that a lot of production has moved out of the city. A lot of production has moved out of the United States. This is impacting a lot of people. It's not really impacting movie stars or big directors. It's impacting the people whose careers are built inside the industry. You know, the people who are electricians and technicians

and work in crafts departments and work in, um, all the various physical ways that movies need to get made. So there is a real problem in LA and around the country where there's just not a lot of work because tax incentives overseas have drawn that business away. The way to fix that is of course, I don't even understand what it means to have a tariff. A tariff doesn't, like a movie doesn't come in through a port. This is not a physical item.

Your Blu-rays do, so that's tough for you. I am aware of that and have been thinking about that. But they're already, but I assume they're just already being tariffed under all the other tariffs. So... Yes, but the movies themselves, I mean, who is being tariffed? The movie studio, the streamer, the movie theater that is showing the film, this is fucking nonsense. Movies produced in other countries,

like what does this mean? Is it shot? Is it that it's shot there? Is it that it's funded? Is it that there's post-production? Is it all of the above? Is it whoever Donald Trump is pissed off with? Like, you know, any given like Sunday night After like watching 60 minutes, I guess I did apply like 30 minutes of hard thinking of this last night and immediately regretted it Cuz it's a fake plan with no rules. He's already running it back. Yeah, you know, they're already giving press conferences

I'm just on deadline right now and there will like be a meeting Great love a meeting. Yeah, we've got a plan to a plan. What was that nonsense? I'm not looking to hurt the industry is the new quote. Oh, okay. This is... Fuck off. That's how I feel. That's how I feel. This is bullshit and people shouldn't pay too much attention to it, but you know, everything he does poisons the discourse around that thing and I don't want the discourse to be poisoned. Should we just say that this is the last we'll speak of it unless we absolutely necessarily have to?

Yes. Okay. I mean, are we still allowed to make tariff jokes? I don't know, we gotta get CR in here on that one. Yeah, or John Voight jokes. John Voight jokes will never die. I tariff jokes. I mean, that's the thing is that like,

I don't even really feel like doing a bit about it. It's so, it's such a combination of gross and annoying and like a bridge to the other problems that I'm like really deeply angry and upset about that I don't feel like, you know, making a joke about how I've been moonlighting as John Boyd's assistant or whatever. But I share your frustration and it's obviously comes on the heels of the time when international entertainment is like a big part of the American consumptive habit, like Squid Game and Parasite winning Best Picture and you know, Anatomy of a Fall and Shogun

and Emilia Perez, like these are all like a part of a global culture that is movies and television. So this whole thing is just fucking nonsense. Anyway, moving on. Reset. Reset. Do thing is just fucking nonsense. Anyway, moving on. Um... Reset. Reset. I do this with a toddler all the time, but I need to do it emotionally for me too. I kind of have some, a much lower octave of rage around this small thing though. I want

to share with you, okay? I already know what you're going to say. And I agree. And I had the same thought process. Okay, so, highest to lowest is a new film coming to us from Spike Lee starring Denzel Washington. I believe it's their fifth film together. Highly anticipated, a remake of Akira Kurosawa's High and Low. A24 and Apple produced the movie. We've been waiting to hear when it's going to premiere here. It's going to be playing at Cannes in, I think, a week and a half.

And we learned this morning that it opens on August 22nd. There was a teaser that uses the big payback by James Brown. All you need to do to look at the teaser is be like, oh shit, Spike Lee, Denzel Washington, crime movie. Say no more. We're good. Like, this is gonna be fun. It'll be a cool movie.

Here's what I don't understand. Movie's opening in movie theaters August 22nd. Going to Apple TV Plus on September 5th. What? Why? I have no idea. Why not? Can I? I've done some research. Yeah, go ahead. There are the last 10 crime dramas that Denzel Washington has appeared in. Here is the global gross for the last 10. We'll go all the way back to Inside Man, his last crime drama with Spike Lee.

Sure. 185 million. Then Deja Vu, 181 million. American Gangster, 267 million the taking of Pelham 123 152 million safe house 207 million two guns 132 million the equalizer 192 million equalizer to 190 million the little things which was day and date during the pandemic still made 30 million and then the equalizer three 191 million so We're about to talk about Denzel Washington on this list. His movies make money in movie theaters. He was just in Gladiator 2, made four hundred million dollars. Why is this movie going straight to streaming after Labor Day? What the fuck is this? I have absolutely no idea. Other than like Apple is like I

guess we want to collect on our investment. I don't know. They want to boost. I don't know. I don't know. Also August 22nd. What are we doing? I'm not attacking you. I'm just mad. I mean, this is like the instigators dump. Do you remember? Which is which made me nervous, but then I'm not nervous because it's Spike Lee and Denzel. Even if it's a mess like of the 10 movies like I'm not the world's biggest two guns fan, but it's like just put the movie in movie theaters. Like it just it makes no sense. Like why are you making movies with big movie stars and Spike Lee

if you're not gonna put them in movie theaters for more than two weeks? People do go see movies in August. Like, it has been shaken up a bit. So, I, the windowing thing, you know, I don't know. I agree with you. I guess Apple doesn't care. They got the tariffs reversed.

And this is on the heels of the fountain of youth thing that I was annoyed about. And then also the Gorge and then also the instigators. And I'm sure it's like moderately growing their film business, but this can't, this is not the way. At a time when people want to go to the movies, this is not the way. I'm sorry.

I really don't get it. Okay. Let's pivot to actual movies that we've seen. Yeah, this will be a real uplift. The original impetus for the 35 over 35 list this year is another simple favor, which is a sequel. It's just, it's a peg. It's a peg.

It's a news peg. It doesn't, it's not. Well, I located a time when it would be appropriate to talk about. Because we've got a movie with two 35 over 35 stars. Right. The question of whether or not they would make the list popped into my mind. One of them has certainly gotten more famous since we last did this list. I guess so, but not in a good way.

Infamous perhaps? Yeah. So another simple favor, a sequel to the 2018 movie, which kind of caught me by surprise. I didn't see it in theaters. I think I watched it maybe on VOD at home. I thought it was perfectly fine. Directed by Paul Feig, who directed Bridesmaids and The Heat and a number of other movies. This is his 12th feature, Paul Feig.

But it's his third consecutive straight to streaming movie. Again, why is this movie straight to streaming? The original made $97 million in movie theaters. Explain it to me. You can't. OK. Stop yelling at me. Sorry. Sorry.

Did you know about the literary origins of the first film? Uh, maybe I did in 2018 when the film came out, and I saw it, but I haven't read it. I didn't, I haven't read it. I didn't haven't saw it out since then okay, and I Didn't go to the movie theater then I think I probably saw it at home, too I didn't seek it out because of this wasn't like a Colleen Hoover thing. Okay. What did you think of the original movie? I was amused by it. I think I was like pleasantly surprised I have Anna Kendrick has always been a little black licorice to me,

even though she's very talented. Sometimes the frequency works and sometimes I'm like, why are you in the accountant right now? You don't like a tiny little girl. What's that about? Poly pocket syndrome? Yeah. You're just trying to get me to do poly pocket on because, no.

I'm taller. So I'm taller, you know? So anyone who's smaller and using that smallness as a charm is an issue for you? Well, it's just not an energy that I respond to, which is my right, you know? Absolutely. And that's okay. Everyone has their body in the world

and they gotta navigate it as best they can. Everyone has their body in the world. Well, they do. Anna Kendrick is just one half of this movie. Sure. The other half is who? Blake Lively. Right.

Yeah. So she plays the, I don't know, the X factor in this movie, the con artist, the woman who sweeps into Anna Kendrick's character's life and kind of turns it upside down in the original. She operates in the same fashion in this movie. The first film ended, I believe, with her going to prison for murder? I didn't totally remember... the crimes, ultimately. I just remembered that she got hit with a Prius

by Andrew Reynolds' character. Okay. And it was like, so he didn't hear it coming because it was silent. And in 2018, that wasn't like a bad joke. Right. You kind of chuckled. Yeah.

I mean, in 2025, it would be a Tesla, obviously. Yeah. But... Well, in 2025, it's another type of moving vehicle, sort of. Yeah. The new film finds the story moving to Italy, Stephanie, Anna Kendrick's character is drawn for the wedding of Blake Lively's character to a Italian gangster. Mm-hmm. And then someone dies and then we're back in some hijinks again. I don't

mind saying I thought this movie was bad. I don't think it was good either. I would say that for the first 20 minutes, when it was just Blake Lively and Anna Kendrick, anytime that they were on screen, they do have chemistry. They do. And they are funny. And they're like, you know, some, not that funny mom blog jokes and all that sort of stuff, but together they have a rapport.

And so I watched it on a Saturday night while painting my nails and I was like, I'm happy. And then it went on and other people were introduced into the film and I was less happy. Yeah. It's like, it's a con artist farce that maybe has more in common with Dirty Rotten Scoundrels than with the original film, which had this kind of like toxic curiosity to it, or sort of like,

what's really happening here? You couldn't really figure out whether or not Lively's character was evil or whether or not she was really her friend. This movie, like, everything is kind of laid bare, so new characters have to come in. I found it to be like a lot zanier and more broad than the first movie. Yes.

Not in a good way. And playing for laughs. Yeah. Yeah. And which some of them, you know, there's one Anna Kendrick hostage scene that's kind of funny. The truth serum. I enjoyed that as well.

Yeah. So, you know, the comedy is actually what's working in this movie. Sometimes. Some of it. Some of it. Just theirs. I think Anna Kendrick is really, you know,

Polly Pocket or not. I've always been a fan. I thought she was very good. I said I thought she was very it, just theirs. I think Anna Kendrick is really, you know, Polly Pocket or not. I've always been a fan. I thought she was very good. I said I thought she was very good in this movie. I'm sorry, I got you off on the wrong foot, you know? I was very angry with the world. But she is, yeah, I know.

I mean, I was too, I was in such... Not what you wanna talk about on a Monday morning. Blake Lively's much taller than Anna Kendrick in this movie. And they really do. Probably in real life as well. They use this for comedic effect. We really, really got to work on our makeup to lighting ratio for exterior shots.

That was one thing that I spent a lot of time thinking about. I was just like, what is going on? Why? Your mind. But it's like, these are very beautiful people. And I was just kind of like, I don't know what happened here. This got away from all of you. And it's, we're just wearing too much, you know? Let's talk about Blake Lively for a second.

Okay. Obviously I don't, I don't really want to get into the details of the, uh, you know, suing and Justin Valdonio. I'm not really interested in that specifically, but I am interested in kind of like what it does to a person's celebrity and persona and how they're perceived. This movie and the original film and it ends with us, all kind of like emphasized this outlandish style

that Blake Lively obviously clearly personally is interested in and kind of brings to these characters. You know, that she is like a daring fashionista. Sure, and she styles herself. Right. And so that makes her character seem very outsized and in a way I think actually makes her kind of a good star. I've never really thought she was much of an actress,

although she's much better suited, I have found, to this kind of like, dyspeptic meanness. You know, like her best performances are like, in the town, where she's like a asshole in this, the original of this film. And it ends with us. One of the reasons why that movie doesn't work for me is just like, this is not a sympathetic person on her surface. She doesn't really convey that as an actor. She plays this part pretty well, but that, that star persona, which I guess has some roots in like Betty Davis, Joan Crawford,

Elizabeth Taylor, the sort of like not to be fucked with female movie star, is a little outmoded in 2025. It's not something you see very often. So there's like... Also Lively is not comfortable with it and is like, I mean, clearly takes on every type of role, but that whenever possible. And then all the accoutrements of her life from like the, you know, the mom blog persona for lack of a better word and her weird preserve, was that what it was called? She had a goop style company, all these sorts of things

that she doesn't wanna be like the vamp. She doesn't wanna be the mean person. She wants to be likable and friendly and that does not work for her in her acting and it has not worked out for her in her publicity campaign, which I have been taken aback by the extent to which that lawsuit seems to have brought out all of the hate towards her online in a pretty remarkable way.

But it's like people agree with you that she's not a very relatable individual on the surface. Yeah, I mean, I think that's kind of a mistake of our society, is the desire for glamorous, successful, wealthy people to try to seem relatable. And you can say, like, I actually, there's not a lot I admire about Gwyneth Paltrow, but one of the things that I do admire is that she never actually was like, you're just like me. She would say like, come join me in this movement. But she would never try to say, we are the same.

There was always like an elevation and you know, Lively is like a statuesque blonde and there's nothing related, she's married to Ryan Reynolds. So making people think like, trying to make people think that she is somehow, I don't know, regular is obviously not feasible. But a part like this, obviously, she doesn't need that.

I guess she needs that to kind of combat some of the public narrative that she's faced. But there is a line in this about look for my subpoena coming soon, which I assume was filmed before, but I was amused by. Maybe maybe not. Maybe. Could have been a reshoot. Yeah. Just to get one last dig in there. I didn't really think this was super successful.

No. Though it does seem like a lot of people are watching it. Maybe this is better as a streaming movie. This is classic Garbage Women. And I guess I recognized that immediately. And it's not well done Garbage Women, it's on like the landfill scale. immediately. And it's not well done garbage women. It's on like the landfill scale. But it's, I've heard from friends, you know, who like watched it and were like, what the hell

is going on? Nobody thinks it's good, but it can be sort of enjoyable in this little streaming box. It does have shades of the second screen design that you find. Like, Ilema's watching The Four Seasons last night. And she was like, this is okay, but it's kind of perfect to be looking at my phone while watching. And this movie too sort of has people like explicating a lot of plot out loud quite often. Anyway.

Like I said, Pedicure, The Real Real, you know, it was, and I appreciate the movie making time for all of those pursuits, you know, I'm a working mom. I got a multitask. I'd like Paul Fee to get back to making real big movies, you know, like real comedies for movie theaters. Well, sure, we'd like everyone to like, just like make good movies.

Yeah, we would, we would, god damn it. Where, we live in the real world, so. We do, we do. If this is the garbage that you're gonna make, it's like, I, you know. God damn it. We live in the real world. We do. We do. If this is the garbage that you're gonna make, it's like I, you know, I watched it. Okay. Thank you for your service. Did Anna Kendrick make our list? She didn't. Did Blake Lively make our list? She did not.

Are we a hundred percent sure that Blake Lively should not have made the list? I think so. I want to show you something. Okay. I knew this was gonna be a long and difficult episode, so I actually bought a venti Starbucks, which is what I used to do when I was a psychopath in my 30s.

Yeah, I remember. And- That's what you used to have instead of lunch at Sunset Gower, you would just go over. That's exactly right. Yeah. This is nuclear fuel for me. So I'm gonna pod my heart out

for the next three hours with you. It's really, really alarming. Um. So. I should have gotten a string cheese from the fridge. We can stop down if necessary. We're about to start our discussion of movie stars. So Blake Lavey didn't make it. No.

Someone she's related to might have. And that'll be an interesting conversation to have. Whether or... Well, yes. Well, because I think that recent events in the legal space have also affected Brian Reynolds' public perception, not to the extent that it has affected Blake Lively.

Yeah, I don't think the dude bros who love Deadpool are gonna care about that specifically. I agree. She does not have, as far as I know, another film planned, even though she's coming off of this stretch where after a lot of inactivity, she's now been in two consecutive big movies,

technically three if you include her silly Deadpool and Wolverine cameo, as well as her voice work in IF. But Blake Lively is actually not eligible based on the rules that we have devised because she has not had a starring role in three films in the last five years. That's one of the key rules that we created when we started doing this. Because we're punishing working mothers.

And working fathers, you know? If a man has not made three lead roles in five years, then he also gets punished. One of the reasons why we do this is not just it ends with us, it's because the National Research Group puts out a poll every year of the most powerful movie stars. This is something Matt Bellany wrote about in his newsletter a few weeks back. It's a data point basically to springboard the discussion.

I think we started doing this before that poll started. Because we did it in 2020 during COVID and we were really down bad with topics. I think we might have done 35 under 35 and 35 over 35 in 2020. We've now moved to... Only you are the keeper of the schedule. I have now moved to doing one per year. So last year we did under 35. I think that this technically might've been,

35 might've been 21. You're right, it is 21. Early 21 because I remember where I was. I tried to take a Palm Springs vacation and then I was just like at the table doing the, what's in Hathaway bed in? The, this episode requires a lot of research, and we do not have a research assistant,

and so there's just a lot of time, just working parents spend banging info into Google documents that people will never see. You're right, we did start doing it in 2021, we did it again in 2023. The contention then was sort of like, we think movie stars are back, and they had been gone in this IP franchise era.

A couple of things have happened this year at the movies that have indicated that in fact, I think that there's some truth to that supposition. A couple of movies that have really strong leads that may not have had the same level of success without those leads indicates that whether or not they're as back as the mythology of this show would have you believe, you could disagree. That's okay. It's just a fun exercise for

us. So what did the 2025 research group tell us based on their findings? Old people still rule? Yeah. Yeah. That movie stars is synonymous with a 90s movie star. Which- Benefits this show. is synonymous with a 90s movie star. Which... Benefits this show. Benefits this show. Also, when we did the Gen Z focus group while you were gone, everyone there named someone, I think, over 50, at least.

That's interesting because I would argue that things haven't been this good for under 35 stars in at least a decade and maybe more. We've had a real bubbling up where like, another Chalamet Oscar nomination, Florence Pugh leading Thunderbolts, you know, there's a whole, there's a wave. But the other thing that has happened is we've had a bunch of people who we started with in 2021 graduate to over 35. It's been four plus years since we last did that. 3000 people are polled, I believe, which is not a huge sample size. It's certainly enough to qualify as a proper poll, but how old were these people?

What were their entertainment consumption diets? They had a Gen Z subset study as well. Right. And that's still found. I think it changed the order of the top dense slightly. Maybe Scarlett Johansson was a little higher, and maybe The Rock was number one. In the Gen Z list. In the Gen Z list. Yeah. I think that's relevant to this discussion. and maybe Scarlett Johansson was a little higher, and maybe The Rock was number one. Um, but...

In the Gen Z list. Yeah. I think that's relevant to this discussion. Yes, but I... But the general composition of older movie stars, people you associate with a type of art that is for your grandparents, starring your grandparents, seems to be their vibe. I think it's rude. I think they're missing out.

What about your cool uncles and aunts? You know, that's what we are. Yeah. Where your extremely cool uncles and aunts. I hope so. Right? You don't think so? Yeah. Moderately cool?

Sure. Emotionally distraught? Physically laboring? Trying our best. Okay. Yeah. As I mentioned, three lead roles in at least five years is a key. No voice work. Voice work does not count in that rule.

You, we've now we, we have made two exceptions to this rule because I think there, there are, these are two important entrants, but you must be born before May 5th, 1990. We are making two exceptions for that and we'll explain why. So it turns out you must be born before I think August 15th, 1990? More or less, yes. A lot of Leos on this list, by the way, which is not surprising. Yeah, but I just, as I was googling, I just clocked another.

Like, we see you. This, of course, is a Leo podcast. See another. Jack, are you a Leo, Jack? Sure. OK. What's your sign? Do you know what your sign is?

Oh, I completely misunderstood the question. I'm a Scorpio. Oh. Interesting. I thought you're asking general thoughts on Leos to which I say sure. Yeah, okay. Yeah, oh thanks, okay. I think Chris- What's up with Leos?

No, there is nothing wrong. That's what I'm saying. I'm indifferent on the matter. I think Chris is also a Scorpio. Yes, he is. So. Intriguing. Yeah. They have Intriguing. They have the stinger. Yes. Wait, okay. For a second, I thought Cy was a Scorpio

and I was really confused. Did you ever get stung by Chris? But. Because you know, it's so rare that Chris will like kind of buck back, but he will. He will. No. Every once in a while, never in your life.

Maybe, maybe it's, I'm sure it's coming for me, you know? But no. Be safe. I'm trying to think. No, even when Zach got us in that fight in the outside of, what's that cancelled restaurant called? Horses? That one, but no, the other one in Silver Lake. You don't remember this if you were in the bathroom the whole time?

And then- Oh, well that was, that was almost a real fight. Yeah, I know. But then I was like, sorry, Chris, I got too hot under the collar. And I think he would have been, like, it would have been legit for him to be like, you need to fucking chill out. And he didn't. He was just supportive.

What, what, what restaurant was that? I forget. I don't know. I can't remember. It's probably- It was right in Silver Lake Junction. What's the name of it? It's sensitive. There's some legal issues at I don't know. I can't remember. It's probably... It was right in Silver Lake Junction.

What's the name of it? Yeah. There's some legal issues at play, you know, maybe. Okay. I see. Oh. Because your husband almost had a violent encounter with a strange man. Oh, yeah.

But it wasn't... It was the strange man's fault. And then a little bit my fault. Absolutely. It was my fault for taking a pee break, I guess. Yeah. No. Even then, Chris had my back.

So there. That's beautiful. Can you tell us how we devise our list? What are the mathematical specifications we apply? So it's 50% what you've done, 25% what is to come, and 25% razzmatazz. Well, it's like what could be. That's how I like to think about it. Well, yeah, but do you got it? Do you not got it?

Yeah, that's the squishy 25% is how we get away with doing whatever we want on this list ultimately. Just a reminder to anyone listening at home, because the first time we did this, bless their heart, whoever it was on social media, identified this as our 35 over 35 actors list. That's not what this is. This is not the best actors.

In fact, that might be fun to do one day to say, here's the people who we think are the absolute best actors, even though we are not learned in the ways of acting really from a technical perspective. This is movie stars. This is about stardom. Acting is a part of stardom. It's a critical part of stardom in some ways,

but not for everyone. So... That's why the last 25% is Rasmutas. Okay. Also, we will read a list of toughest cuts, which is like 40 names. Quite long. And most of them, the category would be like incredible actor. Yes.

Not quite movie star. Like maybe too good of an actor to be on this list. I know what you mean by that. Yeah. There is an icon list that we made some years ago. An Emeritus? Yeah, yeah. We've actually lost some members that were on this list. Like Donald Sutherland, for example, was on this list. He passed away. James Kahn was on the list. He passed away.

All the mega icons are still here. De Niro and Pacino, Clint Eastwood, Jane Fonda, Diane Keaton, Harrison Ford, Judi Dench. He'd go on and on. Like, we recognize their great works. Meryl Streep? Meryl, is Meryl Streep on this list? She is on that. She's a meritus, yeah. She's a meritus, OK.

You know, there are maybe one or two people who are 70 plus on our list total. Maybe one. There may be one person who's 70 years old on our final 35 over 35. But for the most part, this is sort of the hall of fame that is concretized. These people are not leaving that space. So if you, you know, text Amanda and say, where the fuck is Martin Sheen?

He's in the hall of fame. Everybody just settle down. We know. Uh, ineligible. Couple of names to cite so that people don't say, why the hell is this person not discussed? I don't know if this guy would have made it, but he is definitely in that, is he too good of an actor

to be on the list? But Daniel Kaluuya has not had a leading role since Nope. And before that, I think it's been a long time. So I don't know what's up with him. I hope he's in the next Jordan Peele movie. I'm not sure. I hope so too. Obviously an actor we love. Yeah, do we count Judas and the Black Messiah as leading or? I don't know what's up with him. I hope he's in the next Jordan Peele movie. I'm not sure. I hope so too.

Obviously an actor we love. Yeah, do we count Judas and the Black Messiah as leading or? That might've been the one before Nope. Yeah. Okay. And I think that those are his last two and before that it's five years. Sandra Bullock hasn't made a movie since Bullet Train. Right, and that was a cameo, so really Lost City.

Lost City was her last leading role, which did like 200 million and proved her stardom, but she's just not taking parts. Will Ferrell? This is about to change, I think. I think as soon as like three months from now, he will officially gotten to the three and five, but he's not quite there based on the movie

that I think he's about to start shooting. We mentioned Blake Lively. Seth Rogen is interesting to me, because he's on the studio right now. Right. And when you look at his movie career, even the movies he's made in recent years, like The Fableman's, he's not the lead.

Right. He's a critical character in that movie. But he, I think, I think An American Pickle is the last movie. I was about to say An American Pickle. That he made where he was the star. Michelle Williams, who has kind of moved to television. I haven't watched Dying for Sex.

Have you watched that? I haven't. Okay. Will you watch it? I don't know. I have a long list of TV, but I support her. And she looks great in all the press. I like her as well. Janelle Monae, after her Knives Out 2, I thought, well, here comes a movie star now and then she's not making movies.

That's okay. She can do what she wants. Jim Carrey? Hmm. He's technically made three consecutive Sonic the Hedgehog movies and that's it. Right. Okay. That's his 2020s Well his bank accounts doing great John Krasinski

Because voice work doesn't count correct He obviously wrote and directed if and had a supporting part in that movie as deeply creepy father but he is not so what's the the friend is the dad in the end or Friend was the dad's friend? I think that's it. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For the millions at home listening.

Ben Stiller. Well, yeah, he's making, he's making severance and going on chicken shop date. Yeah. We were recording this on the eve of the Knicks Celtics, a playoff matchup in the second round of the NBA playoffs. And Ben Stiller is one of the best we have out there supporting Knicks Nation. So thank you to him. 22 members of our first ever list of 35 under 35 have moved to this tier.

But only six of them made this list. Yeah, Big Fish, Little Pon, Little Fish, Big Pon, you know? Agree. Well put. Thank you. Toughest cuts. How do we do this? Because there's so many layers well, I don't mind spoiling Okay, cuz it's part of it is just about the ranking also people are as soon as this is over one guy is just gonna Like bang out the list and then just tweet it and then we're fucking anyway. I know I know

fucking 12 hours No good reason hours working on this for no good reason. The podcast is how we feed our children. It's okay. It's okay. Okay. It's all content. All content is good.

Yeah. Right? Yes. Sure. I'm sure there are a lot of contradictions to that, but okay. There's... Okay. So let's just set aside two...

Let's just talk about the two names that we have issue with. For me, we cut Christian Bale. I don't feel great about that. And for you, we cut Chris Hemsworth. I don't feel great about that. And for you, we cut Chris Hemsworth and you don't feel great about that. Yeah. To me, those are both big time movie stars. You could certainly argue that they're quote unquote more famous than other people who will appear on our list. Bale is in kind of a downswing. He was in, I thought he was really good in the third Thor movie, but that movie

was not very good. He was in the Edgar Allan Poe movie on Netflix, The Pale Blue Eye, and he was in Amsterdam. Which was a disaster. Which is tough. So. And those were all 2022. Yes. He is going to be Al Davis in the John Madden movie that is coming out with Nicholas Cage directed by David O. Russell.

Well, I mean, that could go really well or that could be Amsterdam. I fully agree with you. Christian Bale and Chris Hemsworth are interesting as comparison points because they both vaulted to mega fame on the backs of comic book characters and have since been putting some distance between their comic book work. But Hemsworth, make your case. Extraction and extraction two are like decent movies that And they're huge.

Half the world has seen it, almost. And we are light on Netflix representation which I feel fine with. I do too. Because for the most part, we prefer movies made for theaters. But those are a huge deal. And the rest of his career, I mean, he just...

He is really, really famous, and he is in movies that a lot of people see. And that has been the case for like almost 20 years now. He has just never proven, I don't think one single time, the ability to draw audience outside of a franchise. I see it. Yeah. Like, at least at the movie theater. And he is part...

Like, Furiosa being a recent example. Yeah, but he's used this. Which is a movie that didn't perform well. He's great in that movie, but that movie didn't perform. Right. And that is, that was IP. But like, Furiosa not performing, and Christian Bale in Amsterdam, But that movie didn't perform. And that is, that was IP. But like, Furiosa not performing and Christian Bale in Amsterdam are like orders of different magnitude.

You know, I really... I know, but yeah. No, I, to me they're both, they both give good performances though. I don't think that's really the issue. Yeah, but like, Amsterdam was a disaster. Amsterdam was a nightmare movie. Yeah, I agree. And didn't make any money. I agree.

So this is, an interesting test is coming for Hemsworth and maybe we can reset when we do it next time. Because we saw a preview for Crime 101, which is a movie that looks like it was made in 1998. It's just like a pure crime movie that I think is it Amazon MGM that is making it? I think so. And it's Halle Berry, Chris Hemsworth,

Barry Kiyogan and Mark Ruffalo. And it just like looks like a Michael Mann knockoff about a thief. It looked pretty good. Like, like kind of garbage Michael Mann. Or it looked like they were remaking Crash. Bad Crash. Oh God, I hope that's not the vibe of that movie. But you have to go all the way back to Bad Times at the El Royale in 2018

to find a movie that he made that's an original movie in movie theaters. And that's a long time ago. Like he did make Spider-Head and he did make two extraction movies, but they were straight to Netflix. So now my case against him is like he made Ghostbusters, he made a bunch of Thor movies, The Avengers, Men in Black 4, which people didn't like. It's kind of... I like him as a dude. I hear you. And I guess he is the number one, like, figurehead for major Marvel star that can't translate outside of Marvel, except we have another Marvel star who can't translate outside of Marvel who is not on this list. So...

We'll get to them in a second. Okay. Should we just run through some of the names? Yeah. You want to bounce back and forth? I'll read one, you read in a second. Okay. Should we just run through some of the names? Yeah. You want to bounce back and forth? Okay. I'll read one, you read one? Yeah.

Okay, Cynthia Revo, not on the list. Michael Fassbender. Anna de Armas. Tough one. Yeah, but Valerie is not out yet and she was only in one scene of No Time Today. Yep. Jesse Plemons, to get an actor. Jesse Buckley, we'll see after The Bride, now eligible.

Right. Vanessa Kirby? Hasn't been, now eligible. Right. Uh, Vanessa Kirby? Hasn't been the primary yet. Right. We'll see if she ever does get there. Daniel Craig. This is the other one where Knives Out still exists. They're still making them.

Yeah, for Netflix. Well, like I said, that's where your bias is. My demerit on Craig, who was on the list last time around, is that he didn't get nominated for Queer. I agree. Which, set aside how you feel about his performance, that almost like indicated something about his stature. Um, okay, who's next? Kristen Stewart.

Natalie Portman. Paul Rudd. Jessica Chastain. This one hurts. I thought about it. Ben Affleck. There's a case for him. There's a case, but it's like, it's... He's doing his own thing.

When is Ben gonna come on the show? Just you and Ben, one hour. I mean, I just wouldn't get a word in, you know? So and that's, I would be okay with that. That's the only time. What would be your first question? Why are you the way that you are? Jennifer Lopez.

Jason Statham, which is another tricky one. Tough one. Yeah. He's sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm this is another controversial one. Hugh Jackman. I thought long and hard about it. I did as well. He has two movies coming out in the next 12 months.

One of which is Song Song Blue, which is a focus movie at the end of the year that could be a sneaky awards race contender. And then he's got the three bags full. That was delayed. I don't know if you saw it was delayed until the end of next year. Yeah. Okay. Well, you know, he's also been mired in a lot of IP. I don't mean to, uh, I guess, fast forward if you don't want three bags full spoiled for you in some way or at least beginning of it.

How do you even know what it's about? I don't know. I read a tweet that said... What are you doing? This is not going on for two years. I said fast forward! It's based on a book. I don't want to know that. That's the premise of the movie. Jack you gotta cut that. We can't keep that in Amanda's spoiler core like Okay, we'll put that as a blooper at the end of the episode Just leap out what happened.

But like, I don't know. Let's keep going. We haven't even said a single name from the list yet. Keep going. It's very clear. You need to keep up. Okay, I'm keeping up. Okay. It's your turn. Steven Yeun. And we had to cut him, which is sad.

Uh, Adam Driver. Vin Diesel. Good. That's what I say to that. Okay. Sebastian Stan. Close. Close one. Has not proven to be a pure box office draw yet. Jake Gyllenhaal has kind of fallen back into television and Roadhouse streaming movies.

And Othello on Broadway. That's right. Shut out at the Tonys. Apparently, the reviews are not good. I'm surprised to hear that. I spoke to people who did not think it was very good. I did not get to see it. Kirsten Dunst, this one hurts, but... Do it was very good. I did not get to see it.

Kirsten Dunst, this one hurts, but. Do you agree with this? I agree, yeah, I do. Brie Larson. I agree with that also. Edward Norton. Kate Winslet. TB. Rafe Fiennes.

Carrie Mulligan. Miles Teller, tough in my house. Tom Hardy. We have Michelle Williams again for some reason. But it's not the other, it have... Oh, yeah. Michelle Williams again, for some reason. Yeah, we can take her out there. But it's not the other. It's, yeah, okay. Um, Gal Gadot. John David Washington.

Danielle Dudwiler. Elizabeth Olsen. And Zoe Kravitz, who's dating Noah Centineo. Did you know that? Ha ha ha ha ha! I just love to bring, yeah, I don't know. They're like holding hands. Isn't he like 19?

No, I think he's grown up a little bit. I saw him in the film Warfare. Yeah, okay. He's very big now. Well, and he is like in a park holding hands with Zoë Kravitz. Well, good for her. Okay. Um, let's, the final trio that are missing from this list, we're calling them materialist

test. So Dakota Johnson, Chris Evans, and Pedro Pascal are not on this list. We're calling the materialist test. So Dakota Johnson, Chris Evans and Pedro Pascal are not on this list. They're the stars of materialist, which is out in one month. I'm not saying that movie needs to be a hit to put them onto the list. Dakota Johnson is coming off a tough stretch here. You know, Madame Webb. We're down bad. I knowMadame Webb. Cleaned my heart forever. I know you love her. She's fine.

Can hardly act, but she's interesting on screen. She's into, come on. This isn't about actors. It is not about actors. She has razzmatazz all her own. Chris Evans is gifted but lost. Yeah. Pedro Pascal, we have a little back and forth about this.

We talked a lot about this. So I think because of the 50% what you've done, Yes. that's ultimately your case for why he's not yet deserving. There is precedent here. When we make the list, we do it according to the date of recording. So there have been people who three weeks later

had, you know, Dune II or whatever come out and there's a big change. Now, when you look at his career, especially over the last 10 years, I first saw him as Oberyn Martell in Game of Thrones. And then he's on Narcos for 30 episodes. And then he's the Mandalorian. Is he? And then he's The Mandalorian. Is he?

And then he's The Last of Us. Right. So those are huge television shows, and that's where he really got famous. These are the movies that are coming up from him. This summer, Eddington, the new Ari Aster movie, which I've been hearing more and more about and very excited about, and I feel like it's going to annoy everybody. Materialist, which I've been hearing more and more about and very excited about. And I feel like it's gonna annoy everybody. Materialist, which I mentioned. And then he's in Fantastic Four,

and then he's in Avengers Doomsday, and then he's in The Mandalorian and Grogu next summer. Those are three of the most anticipated big budget movies, plus two very intriguing A24 films from directors we really love. As far as like the playbook goes, that's the playbook. That's like the I'm grabbing the mantle playbook. It is the playbook, but it's like three playbooks at once.

And so my case for you in addition to the, it's just at this moment in time, he was okay in Gladiator 2. He was in Wonder Woman 1984. That's it. That's it. That's a fact. I actually enjoyed what he was doing. Okay, in Gladiator 2. He was in Wonder Woman 1984. That's a fact. I actually enjoyed what he was doing. He was fine.

And I'm learning now that he was also in 2011 as the Adjustment Bureau. But, you know. Interesting. Was he one of the hat wearers? I hope so. That's what they do. No, he was maitre d'Paul DeSanto.

The maitre d' doesn't wear a hat. I don't know actually. Because they, I don't know whether the maitre d is time traveling or whatever the hell happens. He was also in The Great Wall, opposite Matt Damon. Okay. Great. A Chinese production where they learned all of our secrets about how to make a movie.

So it's not there yet. And then Fantastic Four into Avengers plus Mandalorian and Grogu all in 18 months, plus the Apple commercial, you know? It's just like, it's a lot. We're risking overexposure. Just so I'm clear, you hate his guts. That's why he's not making the list. No, I don't. He's very charming.

Okay. You're right. As soon as July 15th, we might be like, Pascal, he's on the list. Shall we do the list? I'd love to. Now, how should we bounce back and forth? You do one, I do one.

Okay. What do you think? That sounds wonderful. Figure it out with me in real time. I said, okay, why does this happen? Okay, this is a similar thing. I am sorry that we're just relitigating like my domestic issues at work,

but like Zach does the same thing. He's like, should we do it this way? And I say, sure. And then he's like, okay, but why don't you want to do it that way? And should we do it another way? You got the yes. I said, yes, let's go alternately, you know, just take it and run. Tell you what, next time send me an email and then we'll hash it out that way.

Okay. What's number 35? My beloved Julia Roberts. Who honestly is just clinging to 35 because she has the Luca Guadagnino movie coming out this fall. And also, obviously, she's one of the greatest movie stars of all time. But she hasn't been doing that much. So she was in Sam S. Mills Leave the World Behind,

which is notable for a couple of reasons, but most specifically, it is one of the five most watched movies in the history of Netflix. And obviously Julia Roberts is a big reason for that. So... She still has clout. Yeah. After The Hunt looks like a smaller drama.

I thought it looked very good. I'm really excited. And even as we all noted, having seen the trailer, they still cut in like the classic Julia Robbins, Robert smile and laugh in what is like a campus, like politics drama. Yes. I think.

Yes. So they know what works and she is still being used to see smaller movies. She's also apparently going to be in Sam's next movie Panic Carefully. Well. Looking forward to that. But it's hard out here. Yeah. She's 57.

You know, she's put in a lot of work. She's been a star since she was like 20 years old. And I don't know. I'm looking forward to it. Maybe after the hunt is like an Oscar contender. Maybe she's in the Oscar conversation. That would be really fun. It's in play.

To have her around. It's not ridiculous. I'm glad she's still on the list. 35 seems fine to me. Number 34 is Mahershal Ali now He was not on the list last time I think he might have been ineligible because he had been kind of taking a backseat and had been prepping blade and

Then blade fell apart and so he's not making blade and then sinners came in and was just like why do we we don't need? blade we have sinners he has two Academy Awards. And now he also has Jurassic World Rebirth coming. And then he's arguably the key voice in Spider-Man Beyond the Spider-Verse, because he's the Prowler in this alternate universe. Do you remember this? Where the last one ended where Miles goes into the alternate universe.

Yeah, there were like 85 of them and yeah. And so he's the bad guy in the alternate universe. Or the mentor to the other Miles. Anyway, we'll see what happens. And then he's in Your guy in the alternate universe? Or the mentor to the other Miles, anyway. We'll see what happens. And then he's in Your Mother, Your Mother, Your Mother, which is a Boston Tarrack movie, who is the guy who was gonna direct Blade.

So Jurassic World Rebirth, he has like the Han Solo part. You know, he's got the Harrison Ford, I'm the quippy dashing hero guy. Now... You gotta just check your negativity. How do you mean? Dinosaurs are allowed to be in movies. I never said they weren't. You know, it's like we had 36 Marvel movies. I watched Destroy All Monsters with my daughter yesterday. That is beautiful. I

just... Dinosaurs are great. It's gonna be fine. Okay, you feel good. And he's charming. Marshall is 51. Well, good for him. He looks great. I saw him at 8 a.m. in the lobby of the Caesar's Palace at CinemaCon. Looked... He looked great. Nice. Any further thoughts? No, so, you know... That was incredibly funny when he presented on stage.

And then he left. And then later in the day, zoomed in from wherever he... From his house in Los Angeles. Anyway. Number 33. Your girl, Anne Hathaway. So you added her to your, to this list, which I thought was fascinating. Now, of course I support this.

Can I honestly tell you what my methodology was? Yes. Like the way I put together this first list was I just Googled the cast of The Odyssey, and then whoever we didn't have on the list, I put on the list. I'm happy to hear you say that, because I could tell. Yeah, of course. But you're right, there is something to that,

because this is the most anticipated movie in the world for the next, you know, roughly 14 months. Anne Hathaway, she's 42 years old. She's been in all kinds of movies. It's an interesting next little stretch here for her, because she has Mother Mary, the new David Lowery movie, which is coming out, I assume, at the end of this year, for May 24, where she plays a pop star.

And then Verity, which is the next Colleen Hoover adaptation, which is directed by Michael Showalter, who directed her last movie, which was called... The Idea of You. The Idea of You, where she banged a 28-year-old boy band guy. She found a new chapter of her life. She let that guy hit it raw, they fell in love and it was beautiful. I love that movie. And then she's in The Odyssey.

And then she's in a movie I can't wait for, but just got pushed by 16 Months, which is never a good sign. It's called Flower Veil Street, directed by David Robert Mitchell, who made It Follows. And speaking of dinosaurs, apparently dinosaurs figure prominently into this movie. So don't tell me that I don't care about dinosaurs, because I do. You need to tell yourself that, you know? I love Anne Hathaway. I'm proud of her and I'm happy for her.

Academy Award winner. And she's also out and about, like, a lot right now. There's an incredible thing happening on the Ringer.com right now, which is called the Millennial Cannon Bracket, which I love and is very funny. And one of the seeds in that bracket is going back and forth between loving and hating Anne Hathaway, which is just a chef's kiss. I, of course, love her. Okay. Number 32 is Bradley Cooper. Some debate about this. Well, the question of is he eligible? Because we don't actually know, and we are assuming that he's eligible

because he's Bradley Cooper. Let's just say cosmically that this is the Chris Hemsworth, Christian Bale, Bradley Cooper Memorial 32nd position. Okay. Because these 50-something guys may or may not- Is Chris Hemsworth 50?

He's gotta be getting up there, right? 46 maybe? 41. Wow. Yeah, I was going to say. That was, yeah. Sorry to him. Also Leo.

Is he? Yeah. Wouldn't say he has that energy. A little bit too chipper and kind. Well, he's Australian. So I think he's Australian Leo, you know? The ones that don't have to wear shoes. Never stop being you.

Cooper. About to go. I would as well. I'm not gonna get into that. I'm not gonna get into that. I'm not gonna get into that. I'm not gonna get into that. I'm not gonna get into that. I'm not gonna get into that. I'm not gonna get into that. I'm not gonna get into that. I'm not gonna get into that. I'm not gonna get into that. I'm not gonna get into that.

I'm not gonna get into that. I'm not gonna get into that. I'm not gonna get into that. I'm not gonna get into that. I'm not gonna get into that. I'm not gonna get into that. I'm not gonna get into that. I'm not gonna get into that.

I'm not gonna get into that. I'm not gonna get into that. I'm not gonna get into that. I'm not gonna get into that. I'm not gonna get into that. I'm not gonna get into that. I'm not gonna get into that. I'm not gonna get into that.

I'm not gonna get into that. I'm not gonna get into that. I'm not gonna get into that. I'm not gonna get into that. I'm not gonna get into that. I'm not gonna get into that. I'm not gonna get into that. His next directorial effort. Will Arnett, who apparently is his best friend, is the star of that movie. Everyone is Bradley Cooper's best friend when he's working. Did you see the video with Timothee Chalamet and Saquon Barkley? I did. I was like, are they best friends? What's happening here?

We're going through a lot with Saquon Barkley in my house right now, you know, and whether to... You think he approves of that movie tariff? I think that I am just getting rid of the shirt and getting a tiny Jalen Hurts t-shirt instead. Um, that's my plan. But yeah, Bradley Cooper is everyone's best friend. Like, they all show up and they're like, Bradley, you know,

and everyone has nice things to say about him. Did you also see that he and Gigi Hadid are Instagram official now? She posted a photo of them kissing. So that's what's up with Bradley Cooper. I'm going to do that with my wife tonight. Guys were official. Eileen and I are for real after 26 years. Cooper, I feel like has been doing

some weird self-sabotage. Maestro, that's a crazy movie that I love, just from the mind of a maniac. I still don't understand what was going on there. I loved it. Is This Thing On, I guess, is about a talk show host, radio host, who has like a crisis of faith of some kind. Bradley Cooper literally plays Will Arnett's best friend

in the movie. We just don't know how big his part is. If it's a big part and he's a lead, and he qualifies, if he doesn't, then you can say, just kidding, it's Christian Bale or Chris Hemsworth. Number 31. Lupita Nyong'o. Quiet Place Day One doing a lot of work here. Now... You have...

I understand that the Wild Robot does not count, but you tried to bring it up against me with Pedro Pascal. I mean, 12 Years a Slave, Black Panther, Us, Star Wars, the Wakanda Forever, A Quiet Place Day One, and then she's gonna be in The Odyssey. You know. She's got a big part in The Odyssey. She's quite a monestra. So, I like it. I like her.

Speaking of people I saw at Cinemicon, two years ago I saw her walking the floor of Caesar's Palace at Cinemicon. Stunning. I almost fell over. Uh, okay. Number 30 is Glenn Powell. Glenn Powell was not originally on the list. What was going on there with you? Well, I made a category for, I think, Glenn, Sebastian Stan, Chris Hemsworth. Like, because I'm not thinking of Chris Hemsworth as a 50 year old.

I was late 30s, early 40s. I was thinking 66 for Chris Hemsworth. OK, so I was grouping all of these super charismatic, like, blockbuster stars of that generation together. And I was like, OK, who gets the spot? And I think you corrected me. And I'm glad. I'm thrilled that it's going to be Glenn.

Glenn's 36. Yeah. He finally qualified for the big boy list. His last two years are pretty crazy. Obviously coming off of the success of Maverick in 22, Hitman Anyone But You Twisters is a legitimate fame. And then now we know in the fall, The Running Man, at some point Huntington, the new, in 824, I think crime thriller will come out. And then he's the star of the new J.J. Abrams movie, which is very secretive, but that's a big deal. So I feel good about him at 30. I'm excited for him. Next is Michelle Yeoh. She's an Oscar winner. It's a complete legend and is in Wicked for some reason, but that's fine.

And also in, uh, Avatar 4. I think her performance in Wicked stinks, but she's a big star. Um, and she's going to be in the Avatar movie after this. She's also like, been very persistent in the movies in the last five years. In a way that not a lot of her contemporaries, you know, she's in her 60s but crazy with Jason's Shang-Chi everything ever roll at once Oscar win and Haunting in Venice a movie that we both saw. Yes, which is a not a good film, but she was in it

Yeah, she was one of the stars there Okay number 28 Jason Momoa. Yeah so I was a little dubious of this when I saw you had it on the list, but I... I have two words for you. Do you know what they are? Aquaman. No. Minecraft.

Chicken jockey. Okay, great. Uh, Momoa is... It's a thing. It is a thing. I'm thinking about like, what is his favorite food? I'm thinking about like, what is his favorite food? I'm thinking about like, what is his favorite food? I'm thinking about like, what is his favorite food? I'm thinking about like, what is his favorite food? I'm thinking about like, what is his favorite food? I'm thinking about like, what is his favorite food? Great. Uh, Momoa is...

It's a thing. It is a thing. I'm thinking about, like, what is his future as an actor? Like, obviously he was in Fast X, he was in the Aquaman movies, he was in Fall Guy, very amusingly, at the end of Fall Guy. He's gonna be in Supergirl. What is in the hand of Dante? I, you know what? Hold on, I'm so glad you asked because...

Hold on, of Dante. I was like, what?. I'm so glad you asked because... Hold on. Of Dante. I was like, what? Oh, it's the Julian Schnabel movie. It's a new G. That's ridiculous. I'm not sure if he's actually going to be Lobo in the new DC universe. Lobo is another character. He was sort of like DC's response to Wolverine in...

You know what I'm saying? So Aquaman died? I think they're just like resetting all that. The oceans are dying, so he is too. Something to that, I would say. Uh, what's the Wrecking Crew? Angel Manuel Soto. What happened to Patrick Wilson, his brother?

Orm? Yeah. The Ocean Master? What did happen to Orm? Wither Orm. I don't know. I think often of Orm. Yeah, Master? Yeah. What did happen to Orm? With her orm? I don't know. I think often of Orm. How'd they resolve that?

What was Willem Dafoe's character's name in that movie? Don't remember. It was like, Crab Daddy. I can't recall. This movie sounds good though, that he's gonna be in, written by Jonathan Tropper, who is writing Your Friends and Neighbors, the TV show I'm watching right now,

with some reservations. The Wrecking Crew is about two half-brothers, a loose cannon cop played by Momoa, and a disciplined Navy SEAL played by Dave Bautista, who must work together to unravel a conspiracy behind their father's murder in Hawaii. I'm in. I'm in on that. Okay, Momoa is 28.

Who's 27? Channing Tatum. Lot riding on roof man. is 28? Mm-hmm. Who's 27? Channing Tatum. Lot riding on Roof Man. Yeah, but we did walk out of that theater in Vegas, and we were like, Roof Man. Yeah, Roof Man is kind of what I wish all movies were, even though I haven't seen it, and I don't

know if it's going to be good. It's OK. We like that it's coming. We like the idea. He's definitely, Tatum is back. It seemed like he had taken some time away. And then he did Lost City, Magic Mike's Last Dance, Fly Me to the Moon, Deadpool and Wolverine, and Blink Twice, all in a tight period of time. Roof Man is Derek Cinefranc's new movie.

It's his first movie in a really long time. I think the last big thing he did was The Light Between Oceans with Fassbender and Alicia McCander. Oh yeah. It was really nice. Great sweaters. I think the last big thing he did was The Light Between Oceans with Fassbender and Alicia McHenry. Oh yeah, that was really nice. Great sweaters. Yeah. Roof Man comes out in October. It's Channing Tatum, Kirsten Dunst.

Channing Tatum plays a thief, a robber, who robs McDonald's and is arrested and escapes from prison or evades capture and then hides in the Toys R Us. Yeah. It's based on a true story. Yes. I think he evades. Evades capture. It looked pretty cool.

It looked exciting, emotional. You're rooting for the, you know, the Robin Hood of the... Yeah. It seemed nice. Every Derek Seen in France movie is about a guy whose dad never told him he loved him. And so he has to do crime to feel better about the world, but then also resolve all of his trauma within a two hour period. These, of course, are the best films ever made.

I was going to say, let's apply it to everyone else in the world. You know? Like if everybody could just get their, work their shit out in the Derek Seen in France movie. I might do a solo watch along with Place Beyond the Pines. Like if everybody could just get their work their shit out in the Derek Siena France movie I might do a solo watch along with place beyond the pines Okay, okay, we never did our watch along I know what should we do I Don't want to just do like a great movie. I like to do something. That's a little weird Okay, you know we did Dark Knight Rises. That was very funny. Okay. We did free guy. That was great

We did, we did Dark Knight Rises. That was very funny. Okay. We did Free Guy. That was great. We did Babylon. We did, we did the Snyder Cut. I remember that. And we did Tenet. We did Tenet. Yeah. Okay. We've done two Nolan's, so probably not another Nolan. Okay.

At least for now. I'll think about it. Okay. If people out there in the world, if you want to know, add AK Dobbins on all social media platforms. Number 26. Viola Davis. So, did you watch G20?

I never did. God damn it. You promised me. Sean, do you know how many films Paul Newman made? A lot of movies. It's like so many movies, and I'm doing the work, buddy. So, I honestly, I forgot. What do you think? You think he was good?

Yeah, I'm a fan. You think he should have been on this list? Also, also, like... Should dead Paul Newman be on this list? I'm a handsome man. Just wanted to point that out. Super hot. Very, very hot guy. Really, really alarming. A lot of movies where he's just like,

excuse me, I just need to take my shirt off. He's very good at that. Even at like 55, and you're just like, how are you? We've lost a little muscle mass, but you are still Jack. This is where Cruz got it from. Yeah. He learned a lot. You didn't watch G20 because you were watching the collected works of Paul Newman.

And also another simple favor. Yeah. I forgot that she was in the Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes. Yeah, I hated that. It wasn't a very good movie. Never have I diverged more in opinion than my sister Grace, who was just like, that was a classic film. Is she excited about, is it Jesse Plemons, who's playing Plutarch Heavensby?

I don't think she's aware. Plutarch Heavensby. God, I mean, what are we doing? What do you mean? That's perfect casting. No, I just mean that you and I are like, we showed up to work today to say Plutarch Heavensby and Unison.

It's over, I'm dead inside. I'm completely co-opted by the movie machine. Viola Davis is a massive star. She was five on this list last time. She's kind of had a quiet couple of years. I think she also, we did this list right after Air last time. Did we? I think so because, you know, like in our notes, we have kind of like what they've done, their resume, upcoming.

And you had it written in that she was gonna get another Oscar nomination for air. It didn't work out. She's very good in that movie though. She's wonderful in that movie, but I think that indicates that we were coming off of air. And so it's another thing where timing is a little bit of issue here where she hasn't had that much. Agreed, number 25, Adam Sandler.

Yeah. Is it too low? I'm really excited for this summer. He was 14 last time. Yeah. I think you put him here on the, at the space of the list. It's been, it's been a sort of... It's been, I would say, a semi-muted stretch

since Uncut Gems, with the exception of Hustle, which I think has a lot of fans. Um, otherwise, he's been mostly sticking to... Murder Mastery 2. ...Netflix comedies, you know, and Spaceman, which didn't really take off. Pardon the pun. This year is a big one for him. Now, these are two Netflix movies that he has coming.

One of which is, of course, Happy Elmore 2, which is being released on my birthday. Incredibly excited about. I'm gonna drop an edible and just relax for two hours and have the time of my life laughing. And then Jay Kelly, which is the new Noah Baumbach movie. We'll have a six hour episode about that film. I just, I can't wait.

As I understand it, Sandler is in the number two role in that movie. Jay Kelly is the Clooney character who I think is an aging movie star. Sandler bought Oscar buzz. Do we have nine months of Sandler content in us? Sandler and Julia Roberts in the Oscar combo. Wow. It's we're really we're building the Oscars of our 90 streams Yes, I know, but that'd be great. It's our time. You know what? We're old We it is our time. You guys can have minecraft. I need a sandler's Academy Award He might have something that might be too low for Sandler.

It's tough with the Netflix thing. You don't really know how to gauge it. But also, again, this is a timing thing. Those movies are not out yet, you know, in a few months. I don't get the impression Happy Gilmore 2 will be competing at the Academy Awards. Well, sure, but that doesn't matter. It's for us. It is for us. Okay, 24. Jennifer Lawrence. So this was our first big cheat.

Yeah. Technically, she's not 35 until August 15, 2025. It is for us. Okay. 24. Jennifer Lawrence. So this was our first big cheat. Yeah. Technically she's not 35 until August 15th, 2025. Yes. Again, one more Leo. Is August 15th still Leo? I believe so. Wow. Yeah. I think it's like towards the end, but I don't think it's into Virgo season.

And she's not a Virgo. That's just not the energy. Lynn Ramsey's Die My Love was added to Cannes after my win-jing. You just started crying. I didn't start crying. And you were like, I hate France, and I'm never going. OK. And then it all worked out.

We lost the plot. Spike Lee was going to be there. Lynn Ramsay's going to be there. I'm not. Uh-huh. Whose fault is that? Yours. No, but it's not mine.

These are your own designs. You're living in your own reality, you know? When you're at home and you and Zach are having a disagreement, are you like, I was just having the same fight with Sean? Or you just say that to me about the fight you're having with your husband? No, I know better. Which of course is not a fight from Zach's perspective, only from yours. Just as I feel these are not fights from my perspective.

No, no, no, no, no. I, um... I do think the Can convo, and I, they've really messed up Gmail search because, like, I have the proof of me being informed of these dates and saying that's when Can is. And... You have the proof, eh? Like, I do.

And I just, but I can't find it because I email you and Zach too much because I do email. Well, sounds like you'll never be able to counter Sue. I'll be in band in dunes, luxuriating in the sun. Your arms are all going to fall off on the first day. And then it's like, we can go to France. I've been training. Yeah, I know.

So, why don't, why were we talking about this? Cause Die My Love is going to Cannes. Yeah. Which is great for her. I hope it's a wonderful film. I've really turned it around on, on J-Law over the last few years. I thought No Hard Feelings was quite good. Very funny. Uh, Causeway enjoyed her performance in that.

She's very good. She was not on this list last time cause she didn't qualify. Technically still doesn't qualify. Moving on. Numberway, enjoyed her performance in that. She's very good. She was not on this list last time because she didn't qualify. Technically still doesn't qualify. Moving on. Number 23, Emily Blunt. Yeah. Academy Award nominated for her work in Oppenheimer. Sure.

She then appeared in the film Pain Hustlers, which you loved. She's great in The Fall Guy. She's really good in The Fall Guy. I like her in The Fall Guy a lot. And then she's got The Smashing Machine coming, new movie with The Rock from A24. And then she's the star of the new Steven Spielberg UFO movie. Yeah. So that's kind of like being knighted, you know? It is sort of. I am glad that she's out of the Mary Poppins Jungle Cruise stretch.

She got her streaming TV show thing out of her system with the English which I never watched but Chris and Andy's swear by She was 33 last time but tack on an Oscar nomination And then let's not forget she's also going to be the co-star in the Dwayne Johnson Martin Scorsese movie reportedly allegedly Allegedly that's the Hawaii was it Lee That is the Hawaii one, yeah. Sounds great. But I just- Why do they- why is he her-

That's an American state, so. Hawaii. Yeah. He is one of- not in the contiguous 50. Sure. It's the contiguous 48. Those details weren't released, so. Okay.

So Alaska is Seward's folly. What is the- is there a nickname for Hawaii? Uh. Is it like nickname for Hawaii? Oh. Is it like Roosevelt's Joy? No. Have you been to Hawaii? It's so nice. I love it there. Yes. Are you kidding?

I gotta get back there. Yeah. Emily Blunt, why is she the Rock's safety blanket now? What's going on with that? I don't know. They seem to like each other. They have some patter. What do you think Krasinski thinks about that? You know, I don't know. They seem to like each other. They have some patter. What do you think Krasinski thinks about that? You know? I don't know.

He's just, you know, having imaginary friends in their palatial Brooklyn apartment. Is If actually a psychological thriller about how he's coping with Emily Blunt, spending all her time at The Rock? And where his mind goes in the absence. What, so if they, it's like the home where all the imaginary friends live?

Yeah. Because they got retired, because kids don't have imagination anymore? That's, well, yeah. Well, they grow up to be adults and then they no longer have access to their friend. Right. Because they've lost their joy.

Right. They've lost their youthful joy. But then they all refined it again. Do you think we should do If as a watch along? I just imagine Chris. So you're watching If for the first time. Can we make Chris watch it and make a movie? Has he seen The Lion King?

No, he's definitely never seen The Lion King. Well, maybe in his uncle duties, somewhere along the line. Okay. Number 22. Who is it? Tom Hanks. Not quite 70.

He's getting there. Yeah. He's pretty good. He's got two Academy Awards. Yeah. One of the signature American movie stars in my opinion. He gave an astonishing performance in here. Yeah, which you loved. The last scene was very affecting.

I won't spoil it because I'm getting in trouble for spoiling things. Uh, he is part of the Wes Anderson ensemble now, like, you know, in his 60s, which rocks. I did see his performance in the Phoenician scheme recently. We're not talking about it. He's also making another... He's making a sequel to the movie about the warship. Greyhound. Greyhound 2. Get Greyer. So they saved the shit in the warship. Greyhound. Greyhound 2. Get Greyer. So they saved the ship in the first one.

I can't recall. I can't either. I simply can't recall. I couldn't even tell which one was Greyhound. You know, that was like a deep streaming movie. He was on that ship. He was very sternly delivering orders to his men to turn, stern the bow. All kinds of important military things during the war.

The Great War. The war to end all wars. He's in Toy Story 5 as well. Yeah. Excited about that? I'll see it. We did a Monsters Inc Monsters University double bill on Saturday and Sunday over the weekend.

Wow, how'd it go? So well. We did Monsters Inc at the Academy Museum. I think we only did like the first 40 minutes because- Was he scared? No, he wasn't. But they do a nice thing. They do great family screenings

where they keep the lights up. And I think that that had a big thing to do with it. And he seemed to think it was funny. It is very funny. And even like when the Monsters were coming in, we watched the whole like training sequence, all the good set up. And then he's... he was like two and a half, so we had to leave.

I see. Tom Hanks used to be number nine on this list, he's now number 22. Okay. We still have 21 more names to read. Okay, this is going really well. Who's next? Cate Blanchett.

She was 12 last time. Yeah. I think we were coming off tar. We were coming off tar. Should she be lower? Is this too high? Borderland's not her fault, but a fiasco. Right, disclaimer of fiasco. What the hell?

Black Bag rocks. Black Bag doing a lot of work here. It's our list. Just K. Blanchett. She'll next be seen at Cannes. Is she gonna be at Cannes? I don't know. You were yelling that why is the Jim Jarmusch movie not. Did this not get announced for Cannes?

Maybe it didn't. I think it did. Let's see, Jim Jarmusch. Father, mother, sister, brother. Cannes news. This is podcasting. No, nothing yet. What the actual fuck? Oh, okay.

Now you hate France again. Cate Blanchett is a wonderful actor in an underrated movie star. Should she... Who do you want to trade her with? Gosh. I don't know. I mean, when you, like, when you look down the list of actresses, like you could see Ana de Armas vaulting if Ballerina is a real hit.

You know what I mean? Like someone like that, like she's, Anna de Armas is never gonna be considered the actor that Cate Blanchett is. Cate Blanchett by force of will, by doing like Thor and Ocean's Eight, she kind of like thrust herself, obviously she's in the Lord of the Rings movies,

kind of thrust herself into a level of fame. She comes back, you know? She does, she does. She continues to play in those movies. We'll keep her there for now. Again, check back on this list in two months. It might look a little bit different. Fortunately, we get to wait two years

before we do it again. Number 20 is Robert Downey Jr. Is he gonna be in the Fantastic Four first steps? I guess that makes sense, because Dr. Doom is the primary antagonist of the Fantastic Four. Did you know that? Do I need to be a part of this conversation?

I just copy and pasted from Wikipedia, man. He was in Oppenheimer. He won an Academy Award. Yeah, as Louis Strauss. Not Strauss. What did that guy do? Strauss. He blamed Oppenheimer. Well, he worked to undermine him tarnish the reputation of a great man. Yeah. I guess. There's always one of those.

There's always one of those. He was 17 last time. He did win an Academy Award. Yeah, but like, he's literally, he hasn't done any, he did win a couple of awards. He did win a couple of awards. He did win a couple of awards. He did win a couple of awards. He did win a couple of awards.

He did win a couple of awards. He did win a couple of awards. He did win a couple of awards. He did win a couple of awards. He did win a couple of awards. He did win a couple of awards. He did win a couple of awards. He did win a couple of awards.

He did win a couple of awards. He did win a couple of awards. He did win a couple of awards. He did win a couple of awards. He did win a one of those. There's always one of those. He was 17 last time. He did win an Academy Award. Yeah, but like, he's literally, he hasn't done any, he did the Sympathizer, which is cool, but I don't really think worked out. And now he's just like, another Marvel character. The Doctor Doom reveal thing did pop. It was in a certain quartile of the world, but it was a big deal. I'm not really,

I don't really love that he's going back to Marvel for obvious reasons, but it is, he is... I know itile of the world, but it was a big deal. I'm not really, I don't really love that he's going back to Marvel for obvious reasons, but it is, he is- I know it's a big deal, but it's not that cool. Do you dislike when I start like kind of negotiating, debating through the list after we've already made it? Well, I just, yes, because then you're making it as like I am the sole author of the list and you just get to edit it and- No, I'm merely making a podcast.

Yeah, sure. Okay. Who's number 19? Keanu Reeves. This is a very interesting one because of what he has coming up. Obviously, he's an icon forever. Right. He's been a part of huge franchises. He's given great performances in, you know, awards films, dramas.

Something's got to give. Well, he did Yeoman's work in that film as an unreasonably hot doctor willing to give away his libido to a 70 year old man as one does. He's 60? Yeah. Wow. Is his hair undyed?

I don't know, but if it's dyed, then that's great. You know? I'm not judging him. I'm just curious. I don't know. It's really coming in now. Yeah. Some people have it.

The gray white is coming in over here. It could be dyed. That's OK. OK. Should I dye? No, because then you'll be like George Clooney. That's the thing. Because you haven't seen George Clooney dyed his hair

for Broadway I saw that but those are the character I know but then he just is living in it and he was like on the Today show on it and he I mean He was self-deprecating about it. He's like I know that I look insane and my wife and kids think that but he was like a silver Fox 20 years exactly and that's the thing but like once the gray starts You can't You can't just change it one day. So that's your problem.

Here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna delete this episode. We're not gonna release it. I'm gonna dye my hair this afternoon. And then we're not gonna speak of this again. Okay. I have no desire to dye my hair. Keanu is a great choice.

So he's got ballerina coming up where he was asked to come in and reshoot some scenes so they could get people interested in that movie. So they could have the Keanu have the John McMagick. He plays an angel in the forthcoming Aziz Ansari comedy Good Fortune. I believe the angel Gabriel. I don't know if it's the angel Gabriel

or our angel named Gabriel. Well, we'll find out when we see the film. Bring your Bibles, folks. And then the entertainment system is down. That's a pretty important angel. Absolutely. He's one of the key angels, one of the critical angels. Okay.

It's the name of my memoir, The Critical Angel. The entertainment system is down. Is Reuben Osland's next film? Yes. Who is a filmmaker who I used to love and now I think might be kind of a dope, but I'm excited about that movie. Kirsten Dunst? Kiki, yeah.

She's been Instagramming photos from that set, which is just like, you know, they built a plane in a... Do you think it will be a withering satire about how we're all idiots? Probably. Do I, you know... I mean, the problem with him is that, like, he's right, but like, I know. Yeah. This is kind of how I felt about another Kirsten Dunst movie, Civil War. So, yeah, she's... He's right, but you know. She's, yeah, exactly. Number 18 is Charlize Theron. Yeah. Now, I don't really know what's going on here.

She was number two in 2021. She was number seven in 2023. Yeah. And then she took some time. Since then, she's been in Fast X, and she's gonna be in the Old Guard 2. Yeah. And this is where the Odyssey is doing a lot of work.

She's Charlize. Like, you think she just shouldn't be on this list? I think she should make movies. Okay, well, talk to her. Well, I can't. If I could speak with her, I probably would. But that's just not in my power right now. I'm obviously a huge fan.

I think she's a genuinely phenomenal movie star. It's just like if Julia Roberts is on the list at 35, then Charlize also gets to be on the list, even though the spacing between her movies has been a little weird. I'm not arguing she shouldn't be on the list, but just maybe more, you know, maybe she's raising a family. I don't know. I wish her well.

I hope she makes more movies. She does have a few coming down the pike. The Old Guard 2. We were fine on the Old Guard. That was Gina Prince, by the way, and that's not who directed this one. I think Victoria Mahoney directed this new one, I think. I don't even know how I know who that person's name is, but maybe it'll be good. I shouldn't dismiss it out of hand.

Who's number 17? It's your fave. You put him here. His name is Chris Pratt. Did I put him here? No, I think I did. You put him here. His name is Chris Pratt. Did I put him here? No, I think I did. You did. I'm pretty sure you did.

Yeah. But you're not wrong. You're not wrong. He's Garfield. Renowned for his work as Garfield in the film Garfield. He's Star-Lord. He's the chubby guy from Parks and Rec. He's Andy.

Yeah. What was his name in the Electric State? Jim State. Yeah, great. People seem to like his movies. What's the... He's in a crazy movie. I don't know. Some people seem to be happy. You know Sylvia and Jim State. That's the best I can do here.

It's been an hour already. It's been an hour and fifteen minutes. I'm sorry, I was too busy trying to recall the plot of the insane movie that he introduced at CinemaCon. The movie's called Mercy. It's gonna be minority report for people with a brain injury. Um... And honestly, it looked pretty entertaining. Rebecca Ferguson is also in it, right?

It looked entertaining, yeah. And she did like a pre-recorded FaceTime call. She did, she did like a pre-recorded FaceTime call. She did, she did. And then he was just there being like, I'm strapped to the chair. No one has seen this footage. This movie doesn't give out for a year.

Ha ha. It looked pretty stressful. But I remember Matt Bellamy being like, that looks like the kind of streaming movie that I will watch until the end. But it's coming out in theaters. Oh, well. That's the thing.

It'll stream eventually. I think it's a January 2026 release. Number 16 is Robert Pattinson. I lobbied for Bob Pats. I think he needs to be on the list. You know that I love him deeply. Yeah. Now Mickey 17, not a huge hit, obviously. It's okay.

But he has quite an array of films coming up and he is Batman. We don't know when Batman 2 is coming. There's been some confusion about whether or not the script is done or not, whether or not Matt Reeves is going to go forward with it, how it fits into the James Gunn thing. Does James Gunn recognize Robert Pattinson as Batman? In the films made by Matt Reeves, but not in the universe he's creating. Okay.

You asked that question and you got the answer that's creating. Okay. You asked that question and you got the answer that you deserved. I honestly, that look of disgust was not directed towards you. It was directed towards James Gunn and his aesthetic choices. I liked the film, The Batman quite a bit. I loved Tenet.

Me too. Mickey 17 I liked. I think people were like weirdly too hard on it. Sometimes you like to like kick a guy, you know? You're like, hmm, you had your parasite moment. Maybe you're not so good. We both were like, yeah, we like this, but also, you know, why is there a Trump character

for an hour? So I was thinking about this over the weekend. If Kamala Harris were the president, there would be a lot more warmth towards the movie, it would be my opinion. Sure, there would be a lot of things. It would feel more like an artifact of political satire rather than an active moment of political satire.

Okay, fair enough. Just my take. Pattinson, I think is great. Die My Love, at 10, without you. The drama, which is a new drama apparently, starring Zendaya and Pattinson coming out later this year, 824. Can't wait. The Odyssey.

Yeah, who is he? He's Zeus. I don't know, I'm not sure. Zendaya and Pattinson coming out later this year, 824. The Odyssey. Yeah. Who is he? He's Zeus. I don't know. I'm not sure. That would be funny. A film called Primetime and The Batman 2, in theory. Are you guys into Greek mythology over at your house yet?

We do have a book. Did you read the book? I gave you that book, so that's why you have it. Yes. We've read every story. OK. Every chapter is 38 pages, so it is like a deathless struggle to get through. But they're beautiful illustrations. I think the book is wonderful, Amanda, but God, it's like roughly 40 minutes just to get through one story.

And then as soon as we finish one, she's like, can we read the next one? So nice purchase. We're trying to keep bedtime to a reasonable stretch. This is Jolaire's book of Greek myths for anyone who doesn't know the classic. There's also apparently a really good podcast for kids that I'm going to put Alice onto. Okay, that sounds great. Alice, as you know, very fond of stories. I wonder where she gets that from.

Oh, he's playing Hermes according to the first Google. That checks out. I can see it. That checks out. Isn't Hermes bald, canonically? I actually don't know if that's canonical. You have read Dolaireores more recently than I. Well, I think that, yeah, I'm not sure.

I'm gonna give that some thought. Who's 15? Margot Robbie. Now, she's not 35 for another eight weeks. Okay. But it's important that we get her on this list. She's not a Leo. I believe she's a Cancer.

Just like Alice. Yeah. She went from, are we sure she's good? To this person matters greatly to me after Babylon. To this person changed your life in Barbie. And now... What is your doing there?

Your life. You saw Barbie and you said women can't have it all. Barbie was a phenomenon. That's all. It made a shit ton of money. It made more money than Oppenheimer. I just kind of like that was the thing. But so you're saying you didn't like it? I loved it, but I just, you don't need to just, you know. As I recall, it was your number two movie of the year.

Yeah. Okay. Was it better than Oppenheimer? To me, yes. Interesting. She's also going to be in Weathering Heights with her... Yeah, I'm concerned about this. ...off and on partner, Emerald Fennel. And she's going to be in a big bowl of

beautiful journey in September, which I'm very excited about opposite Colin Farrell. She was number one on 35 under 35. Yeah. Let's see if it translates. Okay. I think we will. 14, who is it? Joaquin Phoenix.

Tricky time for Joaquin. We got the Folia de Disaster. Mm-hmm. We got the back and out of the Todd Haynes movie. Hate to hear about that. Yeah. Not a fan. Napoleon didn't really hit. Internationally though, it did. Oh, okay. Hate to hear about that. Yeah. Not a fan. Napoleon didn't really hit.

Internationally though it did. Oh, okay. Did very well in Europe. Okay. So his- I liked it. I liked it too. Yeah.

And now he's got Eddington. He's the rare, just like really good actor who's so weird and has kind of fallen into enough franchise parts, mostly through Joker. But I mean, I got, you know, the gladiator. Yeah, walk the line. Yeah, that he's legit. But it's hard to do what Joaquin is doing. So you say tricky times, I say, you know, he's painting his masterpiece.

Okay, so Joaquin was 18 previously. This next guy, never been on one of our lists ever. And he finds himself at 13, who is it? It's Sean's favorite movie star, Jack Black. Jack Black, Jack motherfucking Black. Jack Black, recent guest on Good Hang with Amy Poehler, phenomenal episode of the show. Oh wow.

They're booking very well on that show. They really are. They're better than here. They don't have Nicholas Cage, do they? They don't. Shout out to Amy. You know, it dawned on me after I saw Minecraft. This is a huge movie star.

This guy, Minecraft plus Super Mario Brothers. Plus Kung Fu Panda. Oh sure, yeah, yeah, yeah. Plus Jumanji. I forgot that they were still doing that. That's three billion dollars in movies. Four billion dollars. That's a lot.

How many Jack Black movies has your child seen? Zero. Same. Zero. We've never watched the Kung Fu Panda or the Super Mario Brothers movie. I do think that's probably coming for us. Right, because her cousins are into Super Mario Brothers. Correct.

We've got a whole week coming with our cousins, so that'll be interesting. What gets in the bloodstream there after the trip? Some Princess Peach vibes coming strong. No question. Yeah. He's next going to appear in the film An there after the trip? Some Princess Peach vibes coming strong. No question. He's next gonna appear in the film Anaconda, which I think is gonna be a tongue in cheek riff on the 90s classic Anaconda, starring Hollywood ambassador, John Voight

and Jennifer Lopez. I wrote the script. So finally my dreams are making it to the big screen. You like a snake? I don't, I don't mind them. Okay, what about a giant snake? No, I think that would scare me a bit. I don't really want to interact with them.

Definitely don't want to keep one as a pet in my home. Okay, well you've got two boys in your house, so I wish you luck. Yeah. Number 12 is Ryan Reynolds. Here we go. I mean, I get like, you know, Deadpool and Wolverine. We get it. Free Guy. The Atom Project. Red Notice. Deadpool 2, which I liked. He's got an animated movie

coming up called Animal Friends. Yeah. And then he's got an original with Apple called Mayday. He was previously 21, he's now 12. I think there's like a really like a grudging acceptance at this point that we are kind of living in Ryan Reynolds' century. Yeah. And what does that mean for us as a culture? I don't think we love it, but if it keeps the theaters open and gives people discount mobile service and also a soccer team in Wales, then that's where it is, right?

That's where Wrexham is. I believe so. Never watch an episode of that. Nor I. Yeah, he's hanging on. I did think that the Blake Lively, Justin Baldoni, of it all was notable for a number of reasons, but like the way that he was brought into it

and the way that they tried to go for his reputation as well. And it definitely did not stick in the way that it did for Blake Lively. Now, obviously we live in a sexist world and especially when it's people on Instagram. On Instagram? Instagram comment. we live in a sexist world and especially when it's people on Instagram. On Instagram. Instagram comments. We live in a sexist world? I don't understand what you mean.

You mean that somehow men are judged differently than women in our culture? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Especially like- Who's responsible for this? Sticking up for themselves. But- Wait, go back.

When did this start? Okay, okay, girl dad. I'm gonna come over with my PowerPoint for now. Great. She's being raised to be confident. She is extremely confident. Deeply informed. Yeah.

It is clearly making her an asshole know it all, but we're working through it. I take the blame. Anyway, I was, for a moment there, it was wobbly with him. And then everyone decided that they didn't care. I think he's very good at his thing. And once upon a time, his thing, the absolute ceiling of it was Chevy Chase.

And now all of a sudden his thing is billion dollar movie star. And I find some of the persona to be deeply unpleasant. In comic book movies, we could do worse. Honestly, that's how I feel about the Deadpool movies. It's like they're silly, they're stupid, they're kind of, they're profane and ridiculous, but like, that's okay. They're comic book movies. Other stuff, when he's trying to make like a Spielberg-esque

touching sci-fi dramedy, I'm like, get, just get the fuck out of here. Like, this sucks, dude. Like, get, just get the fuck out of here. Like, this sucks, dude. Like, I really don't like those movies at all. You didn't like him as the doting father in If. Uh... no, he was the... he was the... Oh, no, he was the...

He was the surrogate. He was the... Yeah, he was like the... he was the stand-in for... Right. He was the lost friend. Oh, that's right. Krasinski was the creepy father. He keeps hiding in the closet in the hospital bedroom. This is a very strange movie. There's so much if talk on this episode.

Ryan Reynolds is a huge star. We're saying though that Ryan Gosling is at number 11, a bigger star. Is that actually true? I mean. To us it is. The Ryan and Ryan battle here at 12 and 11 is very interesting to me. They're both right on the outside of the top 10. Ryan Gosling is of course in theory the more sophisticated and interesting actor, the more appealing famous person. I guess so, but Barbie in Star Wars, you know? That's kind of, that's what the, that's what inches him this high up in my opinion. The I'm Just Ken performance at the Oscars

is what I'm leaning on for this ranking. Which was, that was one of the best Oscar moments of the last five years. Incredibly memorable. In fact, I can feel the Oscars wanting to chase that for the next five years. Only he could have done that. And then we did get a chance to see Project Hail Mary footage when we were in Las Vegas. And we're psyched. It looked great. It looked very exciting. I can't say I'm thrilled about Star Wars

colon Starfighter directed by Sean Levy, better known as Ryan Reynolds's creative partner. I'm not thrilled about it either, but you know, Star Wars is in the title along with Starfighter for it's like the premium brand name. How did you celebrate May the 4th? What did I do? I looked at a local pizza establishment's Instagram post saying that their old school TV and VHS had been fixed so that they could be playing the trilogy all day long. No kidding.

Yeah. And then I reflected on how I tried to go to that pizza place on Friday night, but it was too crowded. So we had to leave. You know, when this episode goes up, it will be revealed that the next rewatchables episode Friday night, but it was too crowded. So we had to leave. I'm happy for them. When this episode goes up, it will be revealed that the next rewatchable's episode is a little movie called Star Wars, A New Hope, which we did. So when is that? Are you sure? I just got really nervous. You're sure about the timing?

Jack, don't screw this up. I'll be struck by Zeus Simmons's thunderbolt. No, yeah, it'll be up tonight. Oh, great. That's exciting. I'll listen to it. Yeah, we did that. And Ryan Gosling didn't come up. Okay. Let's do the top 10. All right. I like this picket number 10. Who is it?

It's a man named Matt Damon. Big vault up from 23. Yeah. So Gosling, the last two years, has completely rebuilt his image. He was 35. Matt Damon now has vaulted up too. So the last time that, has completely rebuilt his image. He was 35. Matt Damon now has vaulted up two. So the last time that we did it was right after Air, and we were like, pretty good, but you know,

this is a movie about marketing. And then Oppenheimer and Odyssey came through. Yeah. And also RIP, which is his new movie with Ben Affleck coming out later this year. I do think that like, Matt at 10 also stands in for Ben. You know, they have been standing for each other. And so right now, Matt's carrying the mantle. What's our version of artist equity?

Like, what are we gonna do together? What business are we gonna form that really gives back? And makes us a lot of money because we sell it to streaming services for just like $200 million. What's our sellout move that is masquerading as an act of decency? I mean, hosting children's screenings

at various Los Angeles movies. That's just called babysitting. Yeah, yeah. Matt Damon's great. I'm a huge fan. Can't say I like the movie the instigators, but I Didn't hate it. It wasn't very good. Yeah Driveaway dolls great cameo really funny and he always does things

He is he's a cameo thing. He's 54 years old Yeah, do you think he's hanging in supplements to get you but I hope that it was safe I do you know, I we looked at the photos speaking of supplement questions Dwayne the Rock Johnson is number nine Mm-hmm now curious thing here He had it like a bunch of flops, and then he moved up on our list Yeah, he's on a an epic cold streak right now. I mean he's on one of the worst cold streaks I can remember these are his last few movies, okay?

red notice cold streaks I can remember. These are his last few movies. Okay. Red Notice, Jungle Cruise, Fast X, Black Adam, Red One. That's five stinkers in a row. Right. And yet, Smashing Machine Trailer, people are like, is it The Rock's Oscar time? Moana Live Action. Also, you left out Moana 2. Moana 2.

He was amusing. I've heard it. He was amusing in it. It was okay. I. Moana too. He was amusing. I know, I've heard it. I've heard it. It was okay. I've heard the feedback. It was okay. I'm actually, I've turned it around on that soundtrack. I kind of like it. Griffin Newman and I have a debate about it. That's beautiful. He says it's not so good. It's hard to live up to Lin-Manuel Miranda. I think that's true.

But yeah, so Moana live action. And then Martin Scorsese's last movie. He's the star of Martin Scorsese's last movie. Allegedly. What's going on there? People believe in him, even though despite the evidence, you know, this is a city of dreams, Sean. Also, I mean, he was-

The Arts District of Los Angeles? Certainly a lot of dreamers here. This is where dreams go to die. He was like top four on the national research group list. And I think number one among Gen Z, he has, he has the Erasmataz and he has the brand name recognition, independent of the movies. So if you could just take him and put him

into any A24 movie that's ever come out, just swap him in as the lead in any of those films. Which one would you put him in? Showing up. Ha ha ha! He's doing the little sculptures with his big hand. That was as good an answer as I could have asked for. Who's number eight?

Zoe Saldana. Yeah, big jump up from 27. This is what an Academy Award will get you. Sure, and also being in Guardians of the Galaxy and Avatar. Do you remember her character's name in Avatar? Um, I'm closing my eyes. Come on, rack your brain. Okay, no, no, okay. Try harder.

These are the biggest films of all time. She's the star. Uh, no. Naitiri. Okay. What is Sam Worthington? Jake Sully? Oh, sure, I remember Jake Tiri. Okay. What is Sam Worthington? Jake Sully. Oh sure, I remember Jake Sully.

Yeah. I heard there's some Sully stuff on the rehearsal. What about the whale's name? Do you remember the whale? No. Pyocon. Okay. And what about...

Wasn't there a different... was there a whale or a significant sea creature in Black Panther Wakanda Forever? I think you're thinking of Namor. No, I mean that's the superhero but isn't there? Okay. Namor. Yeah, I remember. I think you're thinking of Monstro from Pinocchio. The whale.

No? Is that not what you're thinking of? Maybe I'm thinking of who was the Godzilla Kong the new, what was the most recent, was Godzilla V Kong? Godzilla X Kong. Okay. Thank you so much for that important clarification. And then, so Kong lives in like those, Rebecca Hall explained it so well. The Hollow Earth.

You know, the Hollow Earth. And then under the Hollow Earth, there's like another, but that is that person made of ice? The ice lizard. I have no idea what you're talking about. Do you remember? I can't remember. Like who were the antagonists in Godzilla X Kong

because it's not Godzilla or Kong. I've been averaging 4.2 hours of sleep for like five years. Well, maybe that's what I was thinking of. OK. What does this have to do with Zoe Saldana? Avatar. Right. She's also she was in Guardians of the Galaxy. She was in the Star Trek movies. What's Avatar 4? Avatar 3 is fire.

Avatar 4 is fire and ash. Sure. But so then is 4 ice? Avatar 3 is fire, Avatar 4 is... Fire and ash. Sure, but so then is 4 ice? Avatar 4 is microplastics. It's not funny. It is funny though. It's funny, but it's real. Number seven. Yeah.

This is just great news. Michael B. Jordan. Michael B. Jordan, star of Sinners. He did it. Just a movie star. There we are. I mean, obviously the Creed movies are huge and he's beloved from Black Panther and The Wire and less beloved for Without Remorse.

Um, but, uh, he killed it. That was really bad, yeah. It was pretty bad, yeah. Very violent. Stefano Salima, director of Sicario, Day of the Soldado. That was his film. Now he, after the incredible success of Sinners, which really, at this point, again, it dropped like 25% last weekend. It's going to make like $300 million. It's a huge movie. It's so cool. Thomas Crown Affair is his next project. He's directing and is he writing it?

Or maybe he's adapting someone's screenplay? I know he's directing and I know he's starring. So we haven't really talked about this. I mean, this is one of your favorite movies of all time. Yeah, the remake. Yeah, the remake. It's too clear. The original film.

Thomas Crown of Hair, parentheses 1999. Yes. Yeah, I'm excited. Listen, art heist, great. Let's just, let's make an art heist every month for the rest of time. Have they cast the Faye Dunaway, Renee Russo part yet? Not that I'm aware of. Interesting.

I wonder who that will go to. They didn't really have, it seems like it's still very much in the works because at CinemaCon he zoomed in from London, but there was like no footage. There was nothing to show. Okay. Oh, it says Taylor Russell, apparently.

Oh yes, they had announced that. Yeah, she's she's pretty young Yeah for that. He of course is over 35. He's 38 years old. Shout out to him. Number six is Brad Pitt Yeah, I would say a lot riding on f1 Yes Wouldn't you say I would say a huge amount is riding on f1. He's obviously legendary movie star wolf's not great. No, um F1 and then heart of the Beast, which is a dog movie directed by David Ayer, director of The Beekeeper.

And then he's making The Continuing Adventures of Cliff Booth, the new film from David Fincher. A script by Quentin Tarantino for Netflix. Yeah. How are you feeling about that? Where are your emotions? Great. Put it in my soul. OK, same.

Just bury it deep into my heart, which is where I want it to be. Cliff Booth, did you read the? No, I didn't, Zach did, I need to. The novel adaptation? Yeah, I feel, I think you would enjoy it. There's some unkind characterizations of characters in Cliff's life

that you may have some notes about. Some women? I didn't say that. But I've just learned on this podcast that there's somehow, there's like a patriarchy of some kind. Yeah, things are not equal. Is that the word? Yeah.

Interesting. I'll have to get to work on that. Okay. Speaking of the patriarchy, number five, who is it? Scarlett Johansson. Up from 15. Yes. Why is she up?

Because of, well, I'm trying to think of the last time we did this, it would have been like right around, right after the Black Widow and then the Disney suit. So things were like in a little bit of what's going on here. Flux with her and then she was fantastic in Asteroid City. She was in a movie called Fly Me to the Moon, which, you know, whatever. And she has a lot of stuff on the horizon that we're counting because she's so established. So answer me this. Do you think if an actor or an actress encounters a scandal, a la the Disney pay dispute,

or the Blake Lively, Justin Baldoni battle, that elevates their movie stardom in any way? No, I think it depends on the interpretation of the, you know, does it play well for them or does it play not? Does it not? Because that affects, can they get people into theater, theaters? And then I think it also affects do people want to work with them? So do they even get jobs? And, but ScarJo's in Jurassic World, so she's fine.

Number four. Yeah. This is all you. I feel very strongly about this. Yeah, you bom very strongly about this. Yeah, you bombed in with this. And I agree, this person's on the list, but go ahead. So Emma Stone is number four.

Yeah. Now obviously I have a soft spot for Emma Stone, and I always have. Here's my thing. She's cool, wonderful, so exciting, really rad. I get it. It is slightly niche, but that's okay. Slightly niche? Yeah.

The star of La La Land is niche? Two time Academy Award winner is niche? So here's the thing, she hasn't been on one of our lists since 2022, because in 2023, she wasn't old enough to qualify for 35 over 35, and in 2024, she was too old. So now this is her chance to step into the limelight. And since we last listed her, she has got this big thing going with Yorgos Lanthimos.

She was in The Curse, which is the greatest show of all time. She won her second Academy Award. And now Begonia, another film with L'Anthimos, her fourth movie with Yorgos L'Anthimos, is coming out this fall. I love her. I think she's so rad.

She's producing a lot of set. Like it's what she's doing with Yorgos L'Anthimos is very cool. I mean, in terms of like movie stardom for movies with Yorgos L'Anthimos, even if one of them won you an Oscar is not like Poor things made like a hundred million dollars. Okay, so do a lot of movies. So did Garfield That guy's on the list too John Arbuckle is on the list

He's John Arbuckle I thought he was Garfield. He's Garfield. I don't know who John Arbuckle is actually. I think it's CR. Who's number three? Denzel Washington. He's our only septuagenarian on this list. And as the aforementioned highest to lowest is coming soon, he was the best part of Gladiator 2. He was.

By a pretty significant margin in my opinion. Too much. He was the best part of Equalizer 2. He was. By a pretty significant margin, in my opinion. Too much. He was the best part of the Equalizer 3. Yes. Did you see that? No. But, I mean, it's my understanding that he's the best part of all the Equalizers.

There's some truth to that. Malcolm X, Ben Affleck said, the greatest screen performance of all time. You know what? I did watch the entire Ben Affleck Criterion video. I thought it was very charming. And I agree with him. When you have it, when you see something like that, where the love of your life and cinema collide in that way,

do you need quiet time afterwards to reflect? Um... No, because I mostly spent time being like, what's he gonna do with this bag of DVDs? Like, I, because he doesn't actually see, you know, like, I want to know what's this. That's what my wife says every third day. But I was like, I don't, because I don't think that he is a weirdo like you, right?

They're Blue-Rays and 4Ks. Can you please show some goddamn respect? Jesus Christ. Ben Affleck in the temple of cinema, speaking about the great work. Yeah, like I liked his picks, but like, you know, they were accessible. You know? Like, so if he's a collector, those aren't things that he has missing from his collection, right? It's a good question about what is the purpose of the closet. So then he's just, but with his particular picks, I was like, okay, if you actually do have a Blu-ray library or whatever, then...

Don't or whatever Blu-ray library, which is a real phrase that exists and is in action. I need you to decide on one term, you know? No, I'll do whatever I want. If you insist that the patriarchy exists, I insist that there are multiple ways to define my collection of physical media. If he has a collection of discs, is that, can we call them discs? Sure. Um, do that, like a DVD is a disc, a Blu-ray is a disc.

A pinnacle of a cultural art form, whatever you want to call them. Okay, so he's got this, if he has a collection, then he already has Armageddon and... Now, the Armageddon DVD from the Criterion Collection is out of print and extremely rare and goes for hundreds of dollars on eBay. Okay. So that may not actually be something he owns. Okay. All right. Then, you know, what's another...

I can't remember what he picked. He picked Jean Renoir's Rules of the Game, I wanna say. But he was like, this has my favorite line in all of cinema, so. You think he owns it. I'm just like, if he has a collection, he owns it already, and if he doesn't, then he's just got this sack of dits.

Sometimes you have doubles, you know? Sometimes you have doubles in your collection. It's okay to have doubles. He walked out with Malcolm X, maybe give it to a friend. Maybe he heads over to Jen Garner's house. He's like, hey, you see Malcolm X? Good film, check it out, show it to the kids. That's why I'm like, what's happening with the things?

I mean, if he's giving away to people, that's great. So you don't know this, but I give physical media to those I care about, but only if they support physical media. I know, but you asked me what my reaction is to the video. My reaction is like, what happens to that sack once he leaves? So proud of Ben. He didn't make the list. Tough beat. Number two is Tom Cruise. He's 62 years old. He's still fighting the good fight. Yeah. We're seeing the final reckoning in roughly seven days. This is just a huge moment for me in my life seeing this film.

I'm really excited. In the aftermath of this movie, he's making a movie that is operating under the false title of Judy right now, which is the new Alejandro Inarritu movie. Not our favorite director, but Tom is doing a performance. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm open to it. I'm excited. Last time we did this list, he was number one. He slid down to number two. Yes. Who did he slide down to number two in favor of? Leonardo DiCaprio. Why did we move him up?

You moved him up and I support you, but why? Vibes. Just vibes. Just vibes. I'm just like, he is, you know, he's the only person that could get one battle after another, like made and released the way that it's being released. Every event that he has, every movie that he has is an event. Like, I just looked at pictures of him, like, cleaning up plastic in Formentera with a bunch

of children, you know? Like, summer doesn't start till I see him doing water sports. So he's just, he was, like, at Glenn Powell's catch-up launch, but like not photographed on the step and repeat, just kind of like there in the corner, which is a big look for Glenn actually. Yeah. He just, he has a lot of power

and it seems like he is also really focused on just being a movie star. That's what he wants to do. That's all he does. You know, he does that. He produces documentaries about the destruction of our That's what he wants to do. That's all he does. You know, he is a movie star. He does that, he produces documentaries about the destruction of our environment. And he goes on vacation.

And he goes to the beach and plays various sports with attractive young women. Yeah. Not sure anybody's ever done it better. I'm literally not sure that there's ever been a better movie star. You might say, I like watching Cary Grant more, or Humphrey Bogart evolved the idea of movie star or you know

Jack Nicholson or Meryl Streep or any number of people over the years The entirety of his life is focused on the three things that you just identified. Yeah, and he's smoking it Absolutely. Yeah, and he's also he's a bit older than us. He's 50 which is sobering but um Like he's our movie star, you know, He's 50, which is sobering. For shame. For shame. He's our movie star. Yeah. Yeah.

He's our number one guy. He's been number one for a long time for elder millennials and younger millennials, but one battle after another is a true test. I believe. Give me a box office number right now worldwide. Just off the top of your head. Worldwide? At the end of the run?

Total. The end of the run? The end of the run. On the day you die, what will be the total box office for one battle after another? No anxiety or shame, just like... I don't know, but like... What do you think it'll be? I don't know. Okay. Tell me what's the worldwide for Sinners right now? I know it's different. I think it's like 190 something. I believe it's up to 230. Oh, great.

Okay. Good for them. Okay. So 230 right now, but still going. What was the... 230 is crazy. That's great. What was the worldwide for?

I don't know. I was going to say 210. Oh, that would be a home run. I know. I think it can. Sinners is at 230. That's what I say. Like 210 is what pops in my head. I do think Sinners is bigger, but I like hearing that. I hope that's true. Listen, it's Leo. It's I'm at, like it's...

You just split my head open. We're doing an event thing. I don't know, you said to say a number and that's what popped into my head. I'm not judging you. I'm just surprised. I believe in this movie. I think it's got it.

Um... Yeah. In total, in total, Mm-hmm. worldwide box office for Paul Thomas Anderson's films is 317 million. Yeah. In total, in total, worldwide box office for Paul Thomas Anderson's films is 317 million. Yeah, but... In total. He's making movies since 1997. I loved Licorice Pizza,

but like, that's not a bunch of people shooting guns at each other in widescreen, you know? You're right. Well, we're going to test the power of Leo. In the meantime, let's test the power of Nicolas Cage. Let's go to my conversation with him right now. It's an honor to be joined by Nicolas Cage. We're here to talk about the surfer. Nicolas, at this stage of your career, it's more than a hundred films in.

I'm curious if you could just walk me through how you decide to take apart. What has to draw you into a script? More and more as I proceed down this road in cinema, I think I need to have a sense of life experience and memory and a sense of that which is personal, where I feel I can portray the character and the narrative, the story, authentically. And it's the kind of thing where I want to feel less and less that I have to act. Of course it's acting, but I want to be able to get to a place where I feel it's coming from some truth that I know how to play or this person I know how to tell this story. I think that is the main requirement. And then after that,

it goes into many different directions. One direction is, oh, this movie is a movie that I'm gonna be maybe working on it for two days. And it's probably ultimately not gonna be a great movie, but maybe I can play with performance and experiment and try something fun and maybe realize a kind of oddball fantasy that you can create with film performance. So I look at movies like Never on Tuesday or Deadfall or movies where I'm just going really whacked out and trying to find a sound.

It's not always a good sound, but it's a sound that I'm going for. I do that as well. And then most importantly, along with the script and the story itself is, do I have a relationship with the filmmaker that I think they can find something unique or bring out something new. The most important thing I feel after doing it for over 45 years, and I started when I was 15, is how do you stay interested? You don't want to ever lose interest because if you lose interest then I feel like Film enthusiasts people that I make movies for will lose interest so I want to keep that spark alive

You have this incredible knack for Desperate and disoriented characters and I was wondering if you go looking for those characters or you feel like people are coming to you Because you have an ability to capture that feeling? Well, that's a great question. And I think the way to answer it is I want to tell stories that I think I might want to write. And with the Surfer, I read the script and I immediately thought, well, this is the kind of story I aspire to write. I like narratives that are enigmatic, that kind of go in nonlinear directions. It's no secret that I like surrealist presentations. I like dream logic. I like that which is almost psychedelic, which this movie certainly has those

feelings. And I think it goes both ways. I think people have come to know that that's an interest of mine. And I also think it's something that I've been blessed to find and have an interest in and to look for because it genuinely fascinates me. The Surfer fits really nicely into this lineage of Osploitation.

Did you and Lorcan talk about Wake and Fright or Patrick or these movies from the 70s and 80s in Australia that are crazy in this vein? Yeah, well, they both, Martin the writer and Lorcan brought it up to me. Now I had never seen Wake and Fright. They both, Martin the writer and Lorcan, brought it up to me. Now, I had never seen Wagon Fright. It was totally new to me.

And I checked it out and I saw what they were looking for. But I do think they're somewhat different experiences. I was mostly affected by the movies of Peter Weir and The Last Wave, Picnic at Hanging Rock, and Nick Rogue walk about. These are movies that had a huge impact on me because I saw them as a child. That was in the 70s, and I was, what, 10, 11, 12, and my dad would take me to see these movies in the cinema, and they really wowed me and kind of, especially Walkabout, kind of broke my heart. That movie really tore my heart out.

Because anytime you have a love story and it's unrequited, it's tragic. It just always pulls my heartstrings. That movie did. So I do have regard and reverence for Australian cinema. I don't know about the word osploitation. I see it. This is a part of the world that has generated some of the best movies, and certainly with great style, and to that I applaud.

I know the John Cheever story, The Swimmer, and the film with Lancaster was also a reference point for you guys. That movie is so interesting, and where Lancaster was at that time in his career is not so different maybe from where you are in your career. Did you look at that movie before this? What did it mean to you? Yeah, I think of all the references that was probably the strongest one for me. And not only the movie and Lancaster's performance and there are moments in this movie where I'm talking about, I'm going to buy that house right there on that bluff. And I'm even hearing Lancaster's voice in my mind,

as I'm saying it. And Morgan and I were very specific about that in that one moment by the car. But also the short story. Cheever, to me, is one of America's great writers. And I think that the short story is arguably more powerful than the movie. The movie is very similar, I think more so than Wake and Fright, in terms of the character's trajectory, in terms of what he's trying to achieve, that he's trying to get back some semblance of his former life.

And of course, the swimmer ends tragically with him pounding on the door in the rain, and it's no one's opening the door and all the furniture is gone. I mean, this is really, for me, it's a story of a man trying to reclaim both a memory of his childhood and get back like that Beatles song, get back to where he once belonged. And he doesn't belong. From an acting perspective, I've always wondered when you are making a really bold choice as a performer, and you talked about when you choose a part, is there something new you can try to pursue?

Are you telling the filmmaker or the scene partners beforehand, hey, I want to try something, or I'm going to go big here, or are you surprising them in that space? No, I try to be a collaborator and go through the notes with them as much as possible, whether it be with rehearsal. You know, when Julian came on, we had that massive scene in the car park where he's eating the hamburger.

That was his first day, and that was like a six-page scene. And we both ran it and ran it and ran it and got in step with what each of us wanted to bring with Lorkin. And I try to let them know, like, if I'm going to surprise you and myself, this is where I'm going to do it. So it's like music, we've got eight bars here. And in these eight bars, I'm just going to let it rip. And we may use it or we may not use it. But let's, let's shoot it." And so, like, that was that whole riffing scene with the... He had a camera mounted on my shoulders with a fisheye lens, and I'm saying things like,

oh, we're gonna have Plam's Casino and Spaghetti Prutinesca, and all that was just ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba coming out. The only time that I think I maybe surprised him a little bit, Lorcan blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, coming out. The only time that I think I may be surprised them a little bit, Lorkin that is, is I got attached to the prop rat and I used it, it was such a good prop and it was a good looking prop, it looked real. And I thought I could save this and put it somewhere.

Plus, I like the idea of the rat's tail hanging out of the surfer's pocket, wiggling around as I'm walking around. So I thought that was funny. But also, I was thinking about Billy Wilder and his movie Sabrina, where Bogart says, eat it, and he puts an olive in, I think the actor's playing his uncle's mouth. And I couldn't stop laughing when I watched that. So I explained that to Lorcan. I said, I know this sounds crazy.

I know it sounds wild, but this is like the punk rock version of Billy Wilder's movie, Sabrina, where he says, eat it with chocolate. And so I knew I was gonna go in that direction. I just didn't know where or when and it turned out it worked well with the pitbull character in the ocean. I wanted to ask you about persona, on-screen persona. The last five or so years of parts feel like they've been in conversation with other parts of your career, like unbearable weight of massive talent, obviously, taking on Dracula

after Vampire's Kiss, Spider-Man Noir. And even this film feels like there's some wild at heart in it. You know, there's some past in the present. How much of a self-awareness, a consciousness are you having in terms of creating a lineage and a connectivity between the characters or even what you're doing on screen when you're taking parts at this point?

I would say that it's not entirely present on my mind as these things are unfolding. I think it's just a natural evolution of things by way of kind of osmosis that, particularly with a younger filmmaker who may have grown up watching some of my movies, they get an idea of what they can do with me as their instrument, let's say. They have memories of earlier movies and they find, more often than not, I feel, excellent ways of deploying that. And so that's, it harkens back to one of your earlier questions.

I think that's also what's happening when they bring me these scripts or different materials. I don't feel that as much with older filmmakers. I think this is symptomatic of the fact that I've actively sought out younger filmmakers because I knew I was going to get a pulse from them. I knew I was going to get a heartbeat, whereas the older guys, not all of them, but many of them have already made up their minds about me or I've been there, done that, seen that. These younger filmmakers, I think they want to find a way of reintroducing what they may have seen in a wild F-art or an adaptation,

like with Christopher Borglid. He saw that movie and he thought that style, that film performance would work so well with a dream scenario. And I think Lorcan, he's a filmmaker. In my view, what makes him singular is, one, he's not afraid of a nonlinear narrative and an enigmatic and dreamlike narrative. That's big. But two, his sense of humor. This is a guy who has a really fast sense of humor. Like when I did the scene with the telephone and the cord is dangling, I need my telephone prop. And I'm like, where's the

where's the I need the I need the telephone. And Lorkin would go find and go, it's for you. I couldn't stop laughing because the speed of his humor and that And that's in his movies as well. So he's got this special mix of surrealism and comedy that I find so delicious. And he's one of those guys. Like, Christopher Bordley is one of those guys. And I think those two mostly. Another director in the older guard would be Werner Herzog, and he certainly has

that as well. You know, he's not afraid to have a nonlinear narrative and also find the humor in dark situations. I'm glad you brought up dream scenario. I was at that screening at the Arrow where they showed the film and you were hailed as a god at the end of that screening. I mean, that was a fascinating moment. You were wearing the leather jacket and everybody loved the movie. It was really a lot of fun,

but it did have me thinking about your career in context. So to hear you talk about Chris and Lorcan, and I know you said you saw Vibarium and you dug that. Like, are you scouting young filmmakers or people putting names in front of you? How does that work at this stage? Well, what happens is I get a script and I respond to the script and I say, can I look at the filmmakers work? And Vibarium was a movie I had, I actually went and saw it

in the cinema. But I, I, I review and I, and then I get an idea of what is possible with the filmmaker's vision. And then I match it to the script and I reread the script, visualizing what I think this filmmaker can do. And then also I think about where I could go with the character and fit into this filmmaker's vision. And no more evident was that process than with Face Off. Because John and I, John Woo and I, he wasn't someone who, at the time anyway, was speaking a lot of English.

I didn't really fully understand. I knew his classics like Hard Boiled and The Killer, but he wanted me to see specifically Bullet in the head. And I watched that movie and I knew when I saw that movie, the opera and the magnitude of where the actors could go, I knew where he would allow me to go in terms of the scope of the performance and the music of the performance. So that was a very helpful experience. Do you think being a movie fanatic makes you a better actor? Yes.

Is there any part of it that is bad? Like, can you see something and know you can't get to where another performer is going or make yourself self-conscious. I mean the only time that ever really crossed my mind is when I'm looking at someone who is Astounding at doing Absolutely zero nothing. I'm like why can't I okay you have Bruce Lee over here and enter the dragon he's moving everywhere and that's compelling and fantastic to watch but what's equally compelling is Charles Bronson in Once Upon a Time in the West when the camera is in on his face he's about to have the shoot out with Henry

Fonda and I don't know why I can't I'm riveted equally to that, and he's not doing anything. And I'm like, what is that? How is he doing that? Is it the shape of his face? Is it the fact that he's a Purple Heart, he don't give a shit that Henry Fonda is starring who played Abraham Lincoln in the movie next to him because he's a Purple Heart and it's in his eyes. And it's like, well, you can't act that.

You just are that. And I'm not't act that. You just are that. And I'm not going to be that. So, you can try. You can try, but it will never quite get there anymore than I'm going to be able to do a back flip and in the scene with Entering the Dragon. Those are extremes, examples. But in between, I can do a lot of try and bring a lot of my own stuff. And to answer your question, I think that it's all good to be a film enthusiast is the best teacher next to life, adjacent to life experiences, watching movies and studying. I didn't have a lot of training.

I mean, I just, I went to a summer stock at ACT in San Francisco when I did maybe six months at the loft studios in Hollywood. I learned by practicing on camera, you know, and all that that means, and by watching movies. I've been meaning to ask you, since you've had this huge revival,

especially in the last 10 years, is there a film of yours at any point in your career that you feel like maybe hasn't gotten that kind of love or appreciation or revival that people should take a look at? I think that Matchstick Men, Ridley Scott, Alison Lohman, Sam Rothwell, I think that movie was great. I think that was a... I mean, I had a choice.

I could either be in Mystic River and play Robin's part and Clint was directing and that was a great project, or I could work with Ridley on Mastic Man. And at the time, that was the choice that I wanted to make because I really cared about that character and I cared about his afflictions. I had a personal relationship with it. And that was the story I want to tell.

And I think that Ridley, I mean, that movie to me is one of his best movies. And I and I and I would like to have that movie maybe be reviewed a little more often than not. That's one of my favorites. I love that pick. Nicholas, we end every episode of this show by asking filmmakers, what's the last great thing they have seen? Since you are such a film watcher, have you seen anything that you've loved lately?

The last great, great movie I have seen. I'm sure there's something that would come to mind. Could be old or new. As I said, I like to try to approach things from a personal place as much as possible. And I saw a great Japanese filmmaker's movie, Father Like Son, Corrieta. And the actors in it, Lily Franke and Masu Farah Fukuyama, who's actually a singer, but he's a hell of an actor, Machiko Ono and Yoko Maki. Man, that movie is some of the best acting I've ever seen about a very painful, heartfelt

situation where children are swapped at a hospital and then the biological parents want their child back and the other ones want their child. It just tears your heart out. To me, that's as good as it gets. If you can move people to that level with a movie, with the experience of watching a movie where it just tears your heart out. That's why I got into cinema, because of James Dean and East of Eden.

Well, he did it, Corietta did it with like father, like son. And I think I will never stop singing the phrases of the effect that that film had on me. It's a fabulous recommendation. Nicholas Cage, thank you for what you do. You're the best. Thanks so much. Be well.

Thank you to Nicholas Cage. Amanda, thanks. How do you feel about this exercise that we've done today on the pod? I feel good about it. We did it again? Yeah, we did it again. We smashed it.

Eight straight years of award-winning podcasts. Thank you for all the awards we've been getting. I'm really excited for everyone because this brings fame and fortune to everyone that we bestow this honor upon. They're so lucky. They are so lucky. We'll be seeing everyone at the 35 over 35 gala later this week. It's really exciting.

Thanks to Jack Sanders for his work on this episode. Later this week, Amanda indicated it. We are finally, finally, finally building the Paul Newman Hall of Fame. We've been working honestly tirelessly to plow through his filmography. I'm just not going to get through every single film, but I'm going to get pretty close. I'm doing my best. I'm going to get pretty darn close to seeing every movie he's ever made. There are quite a few.

We'll see you then. I'm gonna get pretty darn close to seeing every movie he's ever made. There are quite a few. We'll see you then. I'm gonna get pretty darn close to seeing every movie he's ever made. There are quite a few. We'll see you then.