The Big Picture - The 2025 Oscars: ‘Anora’ Has the Greatest Day

Episode Date: March 3, 2025

Sean and Amanda sit down moments after the conclusion of the 2025 Academy Awards to discuss ‘Anora’ and Sean Baker’s historic night. They discuss Baker taking home four Oscars for the same film, the uneven nature of the telecast and speeches, which films petered out before Hollywood’s biggest night, and much more. Plus: the results of Sean and Amanda’s final Oscar predictions as well as their Big Oscar Bet from back in September (0:00). Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Senior Producer: Bobby Wagner Video Producers: John Richter and Cory McConnell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi everyone, it's Amy Poehler, and I'm launching a new podcast called Good Hang. In preparation for that, I asked some of my friends to send in some videos and give me some advice. "...just be yourself and the guests will come." Don't be the celebrity that this is their, like, sixth thing they're doing. "...I love True Crime and Cooking podcasts. Is there any way you could combine the two?" Well, everyone has an opinion and a podcast.

So join me for Good Hang. It's rough out there, we're just trying everyone has an opinion and a podcast. So join me for good hang. It's rough out there. We're just trying to lighten it up a little. This episode is brought to you by Missouri. Missouri does fine jewelry differently. They're all about buying for yourself, where you decide the occasion. Everything is handcrafted with quality, craftsmanship,

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And this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about the 97th Academy Awards. They have just concluded. We are here and we have just witnessed the utter domination of Enora. Amanda, how are you feeling right now? I am feeling like a woman who is about to have access to one of the finest DVD collections and Blu-ray and Steelbox and 4K and VHS and formats that haven't even been invented yet, but I will find them and I will color coordinate them

in your garage, for it is now my domain. I don't think that that's what was agreed to. Nevertheless, you're referring, of course, to our big Oscar bet, which I think you won because of one of the victories tonight. Yes. And one of those victories belonged to Sean Baker, who is the... One of many victories of Sean Baker's victories throughout the night. He won four Academy Awards tonight,

a truly historically astonishing performance at the Oscars. Enora was nominated for six Oscars. It won five of those Oscars. Poor Yura Borisov goes home empty-handed. Otherwise, the Enora team kicked ass. Sean Baker won for Best Picture, along with Samantha Kwan and Alex Coco, his co-producers. He won for Best Director.

He won for Best Screenplay. And he won for Best Editing. And I noted on the social media app X that if the casting Oscar were eligible this year, which it will be next year, he probably would have won for that too, because he cast the film, Enora. This is an amazing thing on top of that. Mikey Madison, in a late breaking come from behind victory,

triumphed in the best actress race over Demi Moore, who was running the table all the way up until BAFTA a couple weeks ago. She was seated front and center. She had the leading spot. And she lost. And this is, it is the greatest day for Enora. This is an absolutely amazing moment for that movie, which is a very small movie, as Sean Baker said, made for only $6 million.

He's been making movies for over 20 years. It is, when it came out, we said this is a culmination of everything that he's interested in as a filmmaker, of the style that he pursues. And I am just blown away that this actually happened. I mean, we sort of predicted it would happen, and still I'm kind of blown away by it. It is surprising. We did not predict the Mikey Madison,

because Demi Moore had been so strong. And we didn't predict editing. We predicted Conclave because it had won at the BAFTAs and a couple other precursors, and And we didn't predict editing. We predicted Conclave because it had won at the BAFTAs and a couple other precursors. And we just didn't believe that Enora could go this hard and have a full sweep. And it really did. And so that is amazing because it was not quite how the season was shaking out. Or let's put it another way, the last few months or the middle months, when we started this whole thing, when we did our big Oscar bet, which was in September, thank you very much for doing it so early to accommodate various events in my life.

Worked against me it turns out. Well, but you know, as far as the race goes, we came back to where we started with Enora because you and I both predicted it to win Best Picture. Um, and... We had a big flashing arrow with this film for many, many months, in part because it won the Pomdora can, and that has been a hugely predictive moment at the movies. So, things got a little interesting in November, December, January, as they always do.

Um, and it was sort of fun. But so I think we're surprised because... first... because we were right, sort of, or because, well, a little bit. It's not that. To me, it's much more about what this movie is and what it represents. It's just oppositional to what Hollywood is right now, which

is that the last 20 years have been a story about the sort of widening gap between the IP havers and everyone else. And last year was an interesting synthesis of those two things with Oppenheimer and Christopher Nolan, where he really kind of brought, I think, both ethics to the Academy Awards. This year, there wasn't really anything

that was competing in that way. Wicked and Dune Part II had no chance. Inora, though, aside from Maybe I'm Still Here, is the smallest movie here. You could argue it's even smaller than Nickel Boys in some ways, just because of, of like the studio that was behind it, it being independently financed and all these other things.

And the fact that it's about a sex worker, its lead is relatively unknown unless you're a huge fan of the Scream series or going down the call sheet on Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. Which we do on this podcast. We certainly do. We have discussed Mikey Madison in the past

on the show before Anura happened. But nevertheless, like, this is highly, highly unusual, and it is yet another chapter in this decade-long story of the Academy Awards no longer looking anything like it did for the previous, let's just say for the scope of our lives, roughly 30 years. Which, I don't know, what do you make of this movie in particular being the next chapter in this story?

I think, I mean, obviously, five Oscars. I mean, it almost does the historic sweep. It's just that it did not have a best actor eligible. It had several supporting actors competing against each other. That to me is, I guess it's a little strange, but also I like this film so much, and I have met so many people who really like this film. And yes, it's small

and it's about sex workers, but it also won the palm. It won like every, not every single precursor, but it won PGA, DGA, did he win a WGA as well? Yeah, I mean, it literally won everything. So I'm not that, not as surprised. I do also think the more we start to talk in historical terms, like Oppenheimer is actually the outlier of the last 10 years.

When as, and the further along that we get in it and the more that cinema gets divided into IP world and independent cinema, passion projects, small things, the Academy is starting to favor the small stuff. And it's not really starting. That sort of happened 10 years ago. Yeah, obviously the massive increase in membership in the Academy has meant that different kinds of movies are being recognized. We've talked about how it's become significantly more international in addition to the independent films. One thing to keep in mind about Anorah 2,

this is basically a rom-com. It's got a sour note at the end. You don't need to say it like that. I'm not saying anything negative. I think I'm saying it that way because is it Annie Hall? Is that the last time a rom-com won Best Picture? Off the top of my head, I can't think of another one. I mean, this is very unusual. We always talk about how comedies are never

recognized by the Academy. So a movie like this, which does have some social import, and it has ideas, and it's's gritty and all of those things. It is very funny, but I think if we were drafting it, for example, in one of our movie drafts, I think we would let it play in comedy and also in drama. I agree, I agree. So I think even there, it's slightly different

than in Annie Hall or in It Happened One Night, which is a precedent in another way of... Can we, like, can we foots this? Can this be, like, sweeps all five? I mean, this is a pretty historic Oscar achievement in terms of the level of the awards that went. You mean in the tradition of the Silence of the Lambs, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.

Yeah, I mean, I think particularly because Baker won the best editing award himself. Right. That it feels like this titanic achievement, and obviously the titular character, the actress who portrayed her is recognized. I, you know, I'm slightly flummoxed by this because I think I don't totally know what it means.

And it might just be because as you said, when we were in the room 20 minutes ago, you were like, this has just been a weird year. And so for a movie like this to run the table just feels like a representation of that. That's not really a criticism of the film. It's just in my, you know, stacked brain. I'm like, how in the world did we get here?

It's been a weird year, and I think it's gonna continue to be weird years. And I think some of your frustration is just... We don't totally know... We do know how to pick them because we read the things, but right now, March 2nd, 2025, we have no idea what the next year of the Oscars is gonna look like. We don't know.

Yes, I do. Wicked for good. Running the table. Well, I know, you were saying that out loud. The big five. We will revisit that. Best actor, Jeff Goldblum. Okay, just save it. He's not an actor in that.

Is he? He's not best actor in that. Is he? He's not the best actor in that. I don't know. I have never seen the second half of the show. Who knows? I mean, I guess he's the wizard. Sure, and he plays some sort of role. People who love that show right now are at home screaming about it. Those people with love and respect can go somewhere else to get their wicked enthusiasm, okay?

And there are plenty of spaces on this earth, and I am happy for them, but you can sing as many songs as you want, as loud as you can at the Oscars, and you can't make me like it. So that is what I have to say. You are right that we don't know where 2026 is going. We might, maybe later this week on the show,

we might pick some potential winners for this upcoming season. I would have not had Enora on the five for six on my board at this time last year. And during one of the commercials, I think when we were puzzled by the lack of trailers being showed. What the hell was that? Well, because I don't think there were that many movies

in the pipeline. I think the movies that the studios do wanna like, like sell big, they don't want to sell to Oscar audiences. I mean, it's a weird time. Like amateur, that was the only commercial I could recall. You went to the bathroom during Ballerina. It was Ballerina, right? Anna Narmas was there and it was like John Wick-esque.

Yes, that's Ballerina. I know, but you weren't in the room and I didn't totally look up for my phone at that juncture because I was trying to log in to the big picture Instagram, which I, as a 40-year-old, was stymied. That's okay. That's maybe why your Instagram follower numbers are not that high. It was a little, it was like two-factor authentic.

You know, it wasn't me. I see, I see. But you were saying, you know, no movies have come out this year that we feel like super confident will be nominated for Oscars. And at this time last year, we had Challengers, or not quite, but it was about to be really Challengers. Yeah, I was saying by the end of March, we had Dune Part II, we had Challengers,

and we had Civil War. And I was like, we have a real movie culture. We have interesting movies that are doing some business at the box office, that have ideas in them, and so on and so forth. It doesn't feel that way this year. This is all my way of saying it's a weird year in a weird phase of movies,

in just like a weird new life that we live in. And the way that we see these things and sort like Oscar races in our head has already changed, but I think we sort of need to accept that it's totally different now. It is, and yet this is the third year in a row where it felt like an engine picked up steam and it just started going down the track

and it could not be deterred. And that happened for Enora maybe a little bit later than it happened for Everything Everywhere All At Once and Oppenheimer in the two previous years. But in both, in all three cases, you had these big multi-win kind of behemoth qualities to the winners, which is actually very old Hollywood. It isn't the previous generation where it felt like everybody was like and one for you and one for you and one for you

This was five for Nora three for the brutalist Two for conclave two for wicked like they you know, it was a lot of dominance at the top You know, it was very top-heavy tonight as it has been for the last few years I'm not sure if that's representative of much. Let me ask you this, what did you think about the telecast? Did you think it was a good show? Ran about three hours and 45 minutes. There was an hour in the middle when I thought I was gonna die.

Okay. It involved a lot more singing than I want from any ceremony in my life besides a Beyonce concert, really. Put all the low lights in a separate discussion area of this podcast. We will get there, I promise you. You asked me. Yes, yes, I did.

And as a result of the lost hour and the singing, it felt very long. I did think that there were some interesting pacing choices. There were four awards given out in the first hour. That said, I really enjoyed Conan O'Brien. That is, you and I were just giggling, like two little kids, throughout every bit that he did. It worked. If he... If the target audience was us, he nailed it.

I thought he was... fantastic. And I am an elder millennial who taped Conan O'Brien's show in the late 90s on VHS, So I am very biased on this issue. He is my tempo in many ways. He's both of our tempos in many ways. Yes, but I would like to clarify, I didn't tape anything. No, you didn't know.

You've never taped a thing in your life until you enter the ADU. That is not true. I taped the Goodwill Hunting Oprah Oscar special in 1997. You have shared that. Where is that tape now, I wonder? Anyhow, Conan is uniquely suited to this because he's simultaneously full of it and self-deprecating. And that is the apotheosis of Hollywood.

Hollywood people, at their best, know how to say, I'm a star. Look around, everyone. Look at me. And they also know how to say, hey, but also like I'm humble. You know, I know. I don't get too big. Well, not everyone did tonight and we will get there. But I thought he was really, really well suited. Why don't we use this as an opportunity to talk about the best moments of the night, which is brought to you by Audi, who with the Q6 e-tron have taken a huge leap forward.

It's optimized inside and out for an engaging dynamic and effortless drive. Okay, Conan O'Brien, who came out and did a monologue immediately after a Wicked Wizard of Oz medley. And a brief We Love L.A. movie montage to start the movie, to start this show, which, you know, made me tear up despite myself. It was very sweet. I did wonder if the show was very understandably, but maybe a bit obtusely L.A.-centric

and a little bit alienating to the many, many, many other people who obviously we've had a terrible year here in Los Angeles and it's right to honor what's happened here. And Conan O'Brien did at the end of his very funny monologue do it like an earnest straight to camera bit about why we're doing the show and the silliness, but like what movies can mean even in terrible times like these. Yes.

In LA and beyond. So the show honored the city beautifully. Yeah. Conan crawled out of Demi Moore's substance carcass and began with a very funny monologue that I think probably split the difference between, I would say maybe the Jimmy Kimmel like, aren't these movies crazy? And Tina and Amy like, aren't you guys all idiots? Right. Strategy.

And it started off gentler and then kind of worked its way to, there was, you know, it got to Carla Sofia Gascon and singled her out, but also never repeated anything hateful, which was good. That was nice. And just, you know, made a joke at Jimmy Kimmel's expense, which was funny.

And then we got into, there were some Timmy jokes around there, which was just like a good-natured, like that's another guy who understands the game. Sitting in the front row, happy to be there. And then we got to all the Amazon content, which was very funny. I was laughing very hard. Yeah, and kind of the meanest of the bit, but like the main target of the monologue

was the faceless corporate entity that is ruining cinema and also our lives. I guess so. It was a pretty unsparing, but also not over long and overdrawn monologue sometimes in shows like this. Obviously Conan has been giving monologues for 30 plus years.

He knows how to do this really well. It did actually feel like kind of watching one of his shows. Well, that's because he was like warming the crowd up and between the jokes, he was doing his classic physical comedy, reading the room, being like, oh, you won't like it. You know, dancing, shimmying. Yeah. Which is just, again, you and I were just like already in fifths.

We were. In the room, I couldn't tell whether they knew to laugh. Felt mostly warm, I would say. Yeah, but a little nervous. Definitely. Well, it's been a complicated year, you know? There was a... One of my favorite jokes was about how there was no AI used in the making of the telecast, but there was child labor.

Which is, you know, a risque joke, but a very funny joke. Aside from Conan. And Conan, you know, he risque joke, but a very funny joke. Uh, aside from Conan. And Conan, you know, he also, he brought out the, the tune to Sandworm to perform for us. Sure. Also, Adam Sandler. And Adam Sandler, that was also a highlight, a great moment.

Again, really appealing to the 42-year-old men. Yes, thank you. You know, excuse me, excuse me. You like the Sandman? Of course. I grew up in the 90s. What's your favorite Happy Madison production? Let's see. It's probably Happy Gilmore.

Okay. You know Happy Gilmore 2 is coming out this year. I do know that. I know that. On the Netflix service. What's his name? Travis Kelcey. Sorry.

I forgot the football season ends and it just falls out of your head. Is he in the film? Well, he was wearing a hat for a while. He's not retiring. Just a heads up. He's not? He's not. No, he announced. a hat for a while, so I think so. He's not retiring, just a heads up. He's not? He's not. No, he announced he will return. OK, just like James Bond.

And we will return to that. We'll see about that. Other great moments. The Ciaran Culkin speech after he won for best supporting actor. Yes. Now, this was one of the most obvious and predictable awards of the night.

In fact, it opened the show. Ciaran Culkin has been doing a funny thing with his speeches where it seems like he is simultaneously not prepared and also remarkably prepared. I get the impression he has one of those great brains where he can just remember any bit he comes up with. In this particular case, kind of weird and sweet and a little wrong, but a little right.

Particularly in exchange with his wife. Incredibly memorable. Very memorable. For those of us watching at home, one of the great Oscar speeches, I hope it's okay between them, because it was based on an acceptance speech he gave at the Emmys a year or two ago,

winning for succession. And he thanked his wife and thanked his kids. And he was just like, thank you so much. You said if I won that we could have another kid. So like, get ready. And he said, not only that, but I haven't brought this back up to you after our handshake in a year. No, no, no, no.

No, you're stepping on it. You're stepping on it. OK? I was setting it up. OK. That's what happened at the Emmys. Oh, OK. And that was in the speech at the Emmys. OK.

And then promoting a real pain, I think it was New York Magazine did a long piece with him and his wife was there, Jazz is I believe her name. And they talked pretty openly about how that moment at the Emmys kind of made her uncomfortable. And he was like, I shouldn't have done it. And she explained it to me and this, that and the other. And we're talking that, you know, so I have all that in my brain when he wanders up, he gives a very good speech, perfect comedic timing. And then at the end, he says,

I have not brought this up in a year, but like, I swear. And he tells the story of... the Emmys, and that speech, and then walking home with, like, leaving the Emmys with his wife. And I think he kept saying an M was there too, and I believe that's Emma Emily Stone, a producer of A Real Pain and a two-time Oscar winner herself. And basically his wife was like, I guess I did say that, I didn't know that you were going to say that.

And anyway, at some point she says, he's like, maybe we should get four. And she says, okay, if you win an Oscar, I'll give you four. And he's like, and so he retells the whole story as the kicker to winning an Oscar for the speech. And the camera's cutting to her and bless her. Like she is playing along. If she's not okay with it, then she's handling that behind closed doors.

And I hope she is heard. She married Kier and Culkin. I have to imagine this kind of thing happens fairly often. That's all very true. So I hope it's okay with them so that we can all enjoy it. Because it was a little weird, but it was pretty charming. It was very funny and very memorable. It was definitely a moment.

And then, you know, I think obviously we mentioned that Sean Baker, I think gave three very good speeches. He gave a best director speech that is etched in my heart. It is exactly how I feel about the world when it comes to movies, which is that, you know, Baker has been advocating loudly and sincerely for the movie theater experience, at least ever since I met him eight years ago. Um, and certainly since he's had a platform to talk about this stuff and he has gone out of his way at a couple of award shows.

And I thought most eloquently tonight to say the experience of movies is built on sharing it with people in a communal space and that movie theaters are under threat which is of course a subject we talk about ad nauseam on this show, I think to many listeners frustration frankly but the truth is it's a real problem and everyone's worried about it and watching movies at home is kind of eroding something

that was very special about this culture that we celebrate on the show. And it was honestly very, very nice to hear him so directly and clearly say, this matters, we have to fight for it. I can't make it any more clear to you. Let's use protect, go to movie theaters. But I thought...

And possibly because he'd just won his third Oscar of the night, but like joyfully. He was. He didn't hector. This is something that I love and that everyone in this room loves and this is what we can do to protect it and to encourage it and to foster it in the next generation. Take your kids to the movies. I'd love to if you'd screen them, you know, before nap time.

And my mom took me to movies when I was five. And it's her birthday. It was great. And so, I was, you know, perfectly enunciated, right on message, but also totally just spot on. Yes, and accurate to what the experience with him has been for all of awards, which is he's been charming, uh, thoughtful, not over the top. Yeah. Very sincere. Charming, thoughtful, not over the top.

Yeah. Very sincere. And the Q6 e-tron features a new panoramic digital stage that gives the passenger their own optional second screen. Perfect for watching those last couple of Best Picture nominees you still haven't gotten around to. Plus you get powerful performance, smooth and refined driving dynamics, and a comfortable ride.

Learn more at AudiUSA.com. Always pay careful attention to the road and do not drive while distracted. Okay, let's go back to big awards. Best actress and best actor. We mentioned that Mikey Madison won, which means that Demi Moore lost. Yeah.

And that was tough. That was tough. And they kept cutting to her. Yes. I would say that- She was in the Jack Nicholson seat. She was. And in general, the reaction shots

were not as plentiful as I would have liked them to be. And they weren't chosen with Amanda's, you know, interest in mind. You wanted to see pure agony on her face the entire time? No. Throughout the telecast, there weren't as many. There weren't as many. That's true. Yeah, they were not really doing crowd work.

And maybe it's because, as Chris Ryan phoned in from the set of The Odyssey, half of Hollywood is on set on Christopher Nolan's next film, The Odyssey. So maybe there just wasn't enough star power for them to do the audience stuff. But poor Demi Moore, once she lost, that camera was on her. It was.

In the pre-show, I shared with you that I had some real last minute concerns about this race. And I said, I think what I said was, I feel like Enora is either going to win one award or it's going to go crazy. And that one of the ways it would go crazy would be not just the four for Sean, but then Mikey Madison, after really only winning at BAFTA would win here. Oscar historically loves an ingenue. It hasn't loved an ingenue much in the last five, ten years.

Not since the Brie Larson, Jennifer Lawrence era. Right. Except for, you know, Emma Stone has already won an Oscar, but Emma Stone handed one last year and handed it to Mikey Madison. And I was like, those are two women younger than me. That's true. That's true. That's true. Emma Stone, you know, for our purposes is... I understand. She's running Hollywood.

Yeah, but... Nevertheless, I was very surprised by this win, broadly speaking, and it seemed like Mikey Madison was kind of surprised. She gave a very nice but quiet and subtle speech that was just like, wow, I can't believe this happened. Nothing compared to, you know, the blaring witticisms of Kieran Culkin or Zoe Saldana's, like, deep emotionality

or Adrienne Brody's elongated thoughts about love and hate in the world. I mean, this was a very modest, quiet moment. And you know that Demi Moore just had a burner in her pocket, and it just, we never got to hear it. Fascinating. And was sitting right there. Yeah, and the thing that I mentioned to you

when we were in the pre-show is, you know, if you look back at Mickey Rourke for The Wrestler, or Sylvester Stallone for Creed, or our friend Van Leithen helpfully pointed out, Eddie Murphy for Dreamgirls is another really good example of this happening. It sometimes seems like an it's time moment for a box office powerhouse, and then it doesn't really happen.

And they just don't go for it. They actually go the opposite direction with a relative unknown or a smaller character actor or some, you know, and this is something we gotta be careful of when we do our jobs here on The Big Picture. We gotta watch out for this. This keeps happening.

How close do you think it was? Probably really close. Yeah. Probably really close. Do you think, and head to head, do you think Mikey Madison still wins or do you think Fernanda Torres is pulling some votes? I think she pulled a lot of votes

from older voters away from Demi Moore. Yeah. I think that that, we had not yet seen a race with these five actresses competing in this way, which we mentioned in the pre-show as well. And Demi Moore and Fernanda Torres, both veteran performers, two very different kinds of actors, two very different kinds of movies.

But, you know, the biases are real. Younger people are going to vote for younger people, older people are more likely to vote for older people. Mikey Madison won. Do you think there's any just kind of... people only watched Anura? Like, I'm wondering, seriously. Out of all the movies?

Yeah, I mean, how much of that is just kind of, well... I think I'm Still Here was late breaking, and The Substance is a tough sit. Yeah. And The Substance, you know, it had been rumored as like a potential best screenplay winner a couple of months ago. That didn't happen. It did win make-up, which is a feat unto itself,

and it deserved to win make-up, but... You've heard me say a hundred times at this point, forget about Enora being a strange Oscar movie. The Substance is the least Oscar movie that's ever been nominated for an Oscar. So I'm sure that was working against her in some respects. Pretty interesting though. I mean she gave great speeches all the way through every interview I heard from her. She was really good. It's a tough beat. Yeah and you really, I mean and she had the full winner dress. She looked great. Seated the front row. You know I just, and she had the full winter dress. She looked great. Yep. Seated the front row. You know, I just, there's something,

CIA was thanked a million times tonight, as it always is. Yeah. Would you like to thank them right now? And, you know, they did have a lot of winners, but I'm just imagining, like, the angry phone calls and yelling that's going on in a certain wing, and the wrath that, and the way those people are gonna talk to each other about what happened, it just makes me really uncomfortable.

I don't know what else you can do other than just tip your cap to the Enora wave. I mean, that was just something... Well, I don't think anyone employed at CAA is gonna do that, but... Perhaps we'll hear from them. Best actor. Yeah. I was feeling a little shaky on this one, but not that shaky. I was, you know, I heard the sag, kept hearing the sag stat in my ear,

but it never really seemed like Timothee Chalamet. Timothee Chalamet will return. He will compete again. I'm not really worried about him. He seems to be on the path. Yeah, I mean, he is Leo, right? So he's gonna have to wait a while and then sleep in a bear suit or whatever. Yes, they are gonna make him earn it. And then he's gonna get a million dollars from Rolex, which I'd like to come back to that at some point.

We certainly can. I had that on my list as well. Watched that commercial many times. Adrian Brody won again. He adds himself to the very short list of two-time Acting Academy Award winners. In fact, we just lost Gene Hackman, which is something that we have not had the chance to talk about on this show. He too was a two-time best acting winner.

And I wouldn't say that they're very similar performers, so that's kind of where the comparisons end. They have different energies. But Adrian Brody is remarkable in The Brutalist. He gave a very long speech that was simultaneously, I found, touching and self-regarding, which felt very old-school Oscars to me. What did you think of his speech?

I noticed that it was silent in our viewing room, but also just the Oscars. And he was speaking in a very drawn out, you know, thoughtful or long manner. And he does have a presence, Adrian Brody. And so everyone was just kind of there. Waiting on his words. Exactly. And in much the same way that,

you know, the Brutalist just at some point he is drawing you in emotionally. That is like a lot of the work. I, so I found myself moved by it, even though it kept going, you know. And then I liked it when he told them to turn the music off. That's, you know. I've been here before. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, it's, respect, you know? And that's when the Hollywood starts peeking out. And he drove around to the message of love, not hate, but he got there in the end. He did. And I agree. So it's. I think he ran a very sincere campaign.

Wasn't telling a lot of jokes in his interviews. I talked to him. He was very similar when we spoke. He was very, very thoughtful and deliberate in every answer, but took every question he received very seriously. And he's just an amazing actor. And it's clear that Hollywood forgot for 20 years, in part because of the parts he took or the parts he was offered

or whatever may have happened in his career over that time. But when he gets his hands on the right role, he can do something interesting. I thought it was interesting the way that he located the arc of an actor's career, especially a successful actor, the way it ebbs and flows, which is something that you and I talk about all the time. This person's hot, they're on our list,

they're not on our list, they're a box office success, this movie was a flop. Adrian Brody has kept himself relevant, obviously, by appearing in Succession, being great in Wes Anderson movies, but as I've said, like, he's really been in pretty small genre stuff, for the most part, for the last 15 years,

and he literally in the speech was like, I'm gonna make this a step in a redemption story. I'm now gonna pursue something more, something bigger. I'm gonna try to do more and succeed again." It was almost like he was pumping himself up during his own second best actor acceptance speech. And I think still also wallowing a little bit and what he clearly felt was the wilderness

of the last 20 years. Yes. You know, as he was speaking, and I think he said this is a reminder, things can go away, but you can also get them back, but something to that effect. And I was just thinking about the person who did not win in his category, Timothy Chalamet, who I don't think it's going to go away for him. You know, he'll be fine. So even as he didn't win, I was like, well, it's going to be okay because I don't think he's going to have an Adrian Brody wilderness period.

You never know. You never know. Coming out of the Pianist, his win for the Pianist, when he was the youngest winner of all time, you would have said, this guy is the next Al Pacino. He's the next Robert Duvall. He may not be the most beautiful movie star of all time, but when he is given a part, he can crush it. You know what I mean. He's not a traditional most beautiful movie star of all time, but when he is given a part, he can crush it.

He is very, you know what I mean? He's not a traditional, he's a 70s movie star. He's not a 2000s movie star. Nevertheless, the win I think we both saw coming for a very long time, good speech. As always, Saldaña once again gave a very emotional speech, talked about her parents as immigrants, talked about how she was the first woman of Dominic, the first person of Dominican descent

to win an Academy Award. You know, Amelia Perez has been the black dove of this entire award season in many ways, but Zoe Saldana has never wavered. She's won everywhere. This is probably one of the biggest steamroll best supporting actress campaigns of all time. Shows up looking amazing, totally prepared, dynamite speech every single time. So, I mean, you know, and she really she's she projects to the to the rafters. Sometimes when races get settled like this early on, I get annoyed.

I think often of the very odd Renee Zellweger, Judy run, yeah, which I was very cranky about throughout that entire season. I felt both of the supporting actor and actress races were like this this year, where everyone just sort of landed on something and there was no room for discussion. But I don't really have anything bad to say about Zoe Saldana. When I saw that movie, she was really the only thing I could think about from that movie, so...

And she's very talented, and she does a lot of blockbuster movies, you know, so, and some that we even like. So credit to her for that. No question. Yeah, she's great. Also learned tonight that she also has a son named Cy. And I didn't know that. Did you get a spelling?

It's C-Y. Oh, wow. Yeah. So, shout out. You're another Cy mom. Cy twins. Yeah. That's nice. So we've got the suit and we have Cy's in common.

Yes. And so many other things. Um... And a love for the film and we have size in common. Yes. And so many other things. Um... And a love for the film center stage. I hope she loves it. I've probably seen it more times than she has, but, uh... Yeah. And also a love for Pyacon, the whale from Avatar, the way of water. I like sea creatures.

Is that true? You don't like birds? Yeah. I'm freaked out by them. Okay. Let's keep that in mind for future discussion. Okay. What other awards popped out to you that were really notable? We talked about director. We've talked about the big six at this point. What, what struck your fancy during this telecast?

Well, let's just actually, let's say for the record, I predicted 17 out of 23. Yeah. You predicted 15 out of 20. 16. 16, 16 out of 23. Um, which is not bad. It's not great. The shorts really, really messed us up.

Yes. I went over three on the shorts. Did you as well? I also went over three. So that's not ideal. Animated feature. Let's talk about that one. I find that one very interesting as well.

You predicted that one correctly. I did. You predicted flow. I did. Flow of course was strong this year. It was also nominated in international feature and it beat the wild robot, which is what I predicted. And I consider this once again a sign of the old days are gone and the Academy Awards.

Flow is Flow the single smallest movie to have ever won a major award at the Academy Awards. And when I say major award, screenplay, acting, picture, and then the three international documentary and animated. Is it the single small, I mean, I think less than 15 people worked on this movie. It's the budget is minuscule.

No dialogue. It has no dialogue. It is made on software that anyone can download that is free called Blender. And it just won best animated feature, overcoming Universal, Disney, Aardman and Netflix. It's just an amazing thing. Yeah.

It's a beautiful movie. People really love that cat and the Capybara. I'm very, I'm happy for Mallory Rubin. She was delighted by this movie. Yeah. I'm happy for Chris Ryan, who has seen the film flow. His first animated feature, right? Yeah, so there we go.

Good for him. Congratulations, Chris. Best documentary feature, No Other Land One. Yeah. And the recipient, you know, I made a mistake on the predictions episode. I said that the events in the film take place in Gaza. I meant to say West Bank, which is which which the filmmakers I thought spoke quite eloquently about and why they chose to make this movie and why this movie is important. And it was the one of very few moments in the night where someone who won an award or a host or a presenter

openly acknowledged world events. There was like an, ooh, aren't I naughty moment from Conan O'Brien about standing up to Russian power. Right, and why Enora was doing so well. Yes, but occupation and the destruction of homes in the West Bank and in the community that is portrayed in that movie. I thought both filmmakers spoke very eloquently. Yes.

It was not the booing and hissing that some feared because of, you know, some of the... Right, though, you know, I suppose the letters haven't been written yet. No, and I'm sure that they will be. I'm sure that they will be. It was very quiet in the room. And not as much... no standing ovations. No standing ovations.

Very, very polite. I was looking very closely at Selena Gomez and Samuel L. Jackson, who introduced this award. And Selena Gomez, I would say, gently clapped. And Samuel L. Jackson had his hands in his pockets. Yes, but I also, with respect to Selena Gomez, I think that it was sort of like the auto clap where she was trying not to... It seemed polite.

We can't read intention into their actions, but I was looking because it's very rare that you see extremely famous people have to have a reaction to a moment like that, like a real world issue that actually matters to people. And to the winners actually speaking to the people in the room and to this country and to our foreign policy and the ways that it is failing. And so, yeah, I mean, it was an amazing and fascinating moment that most people seem to just want to lean on. And that's another one where I noticed that the production, they were not cutting to anyone.

No, although I was wondering if they would cut to Guy Pearce because Guy Pearce very notably was wearing a free Palestine pin, which is something he has been wearing throughout award season. But they did not, I assume ABC was attempting to be very careful during that moment. Nevertheless, interesting to see that it happened and that that group and the body itself actually went for that movie because it upended whatever our questions or concerns were about that when we talked about the category. International feature. You hold on to Emilia

Perez. Listen, I went, I was trying some things. You can't be great if you don't try some things. I agree. And you know who else would agree with that is Jacques Audiard. You know, he tried to do something great and he did not succeed with the film Emilia Perez, which was the odds on favorite for many months in this category in particular.

And it lost to I'm Still Here, the Brazilian entrant, the Walter Salas film starring Fernando Torres. He gave a nice quiet speech. Walter Salas, very good filmmaker. He, of course, does not get this award. The nation of Brazil receives this award. Listen, I think that they are at least appreciative. So, congratulations.

The whole nation? Yes. Or their government? I think, well, I'm not getting into that. I just said that the people on the internet who are excited about Brazil get this award in my mind, and I'm happy for them. Sure. Yeah. Kind of a weird category.

They need to rethink this whole category. This one country gets to submit a film, makes no sense. It's well-intentioned because they don't want like five French films because they have a thriving film industry. Right. And that would have been a problem 20 to 30 years ago, but now because the Academy is so much more international, you have more international features making it into Best Picture on a regular basis, which is great.

Yes, and way more access to world cinema. So I think that I'm sure that this has been discussed ad nauseam inside the Academy. They just need to change this. It doesn't make sense. I'm Still Here is a good winner, but it's a bit strange. The music categories quickly. El Mal won for best original song, which is it won because you wore this suit tonight. You look wonderful.

Thanks so much. I'm very proud of your bravery. Thank you. And, uh, did we get's more uncomfortable in their suit tonight? Me or you? Did we get any clarity on what the... What almal means? Did you get any feedback? Didn't hear from anyone.

No one was reaching out to me during the show. Best score, of course, we got Daniel Blumberg. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. So it means the evil, as I was correct. The evil, the bad, yeah. But yeah, you... No, no, no, no. We were gonna have to talk about the acceptance for original song. Oh, right.

Yeah. Well, I guess we're starting the lowlights portion of the conversation early. Do you want me to... You just wanted to talk about winners and then we can have like the airing of grievances? Uh, yes. I think that's a good idea. In general, this prize was given by Mick Jagger. That was cool. And honestly, Mick looked great. Yes.

He's 81 years old. He made a joke about being younger than Bob Dylan, who did not show at the award show, no surprise. Shout out to you, Bob. Thank you for everything you've given me. Um, and Mick just smiling through the whole thing. Jaunty. Just laughing.

He was having a great old time. Yeah. Chalamet seemed to enjoy that. And, uh, he gave a prize to Elmall. Best score, Daniel Blumberg. He won for The Brutalist, which is a magnificent score. Wonderful score. Completely deserving. They had the Academy Orchestra play snippets live.

I would have liked to hear more, and from The Brutalist, I would have liked to hear the bum-bum-bum-bum. I guess they did get it when he won. Yes. But it was cool to have them. Overall, throughout the night, they did a good job. Thumbs up to the orchestra. The orchestra did well.

Best sound and best visual effects went to Dune Part II. There was some speculation a complete unknown might come in on best sound. I expressed some confusion. Also, the explanation that I shared on the predictions episode about the difference between sound mixing and sound editing apparently was completely wrong. And I've been scolded by members of the sound community. And to them, I'd like to say, I do not apologize.

I'm an idiot and everyone knows this. Doing part two, winning a couple of awards, something occurred to me, which I also shared on social media. There was a film once upon a time called The Lord of the Rings, The Two Towers. This film was nominated for six Academy Awards, including Best Picture, and it won two prizes. It won Best Sound Editing and Best Visual Effects.

It was the second film in a trilogy, much anticipated. This year, Dune Part II was nominated for five Oscars, including Best Picture, and it won two. Best Sound and Best Visual Effects. Dune Messiah, I ask? I love you and your numbers, and I need you to Google the plot of Dune Messiah. I don't want to.

I, like, how? Anora just won Best Picture. Everything, everywhere, all at once, won Best Picture. And still I say to you, Sean, I need you to understand what's going to be happening in Dune Messiah. The Shape of Water won Best Picture. And yet again. And still I say to you, Sean, I need you to understand what's gonna be happening in Doom Messiah. The shape of water, one best picture. And yet again, sir, I say,

you know, it's fine. Let's see how long I can go without spoiling it for you. You will never spoil it for me. You will be spoiled for me when I sit to watch the film. No, I know, but like at some point I'm just gonna yell out something. Don't do it. You know, I can't do it. It's like at the tip of my tongue right now.

I'm not going to. I'm gonna get Bobby in here with a to. But I'm just saying, they haven't even started filming yet. It's gonna be like four years of you being like, this will definitely be Lord of the Rings Return of the King. I'm not saying it definitely will be. Well... Here's what I'm putting in a circle around. I'm putting a circle around the fact that this is what Hollywood thinks it's doing. Okay.

It thinks it's prepared, because Hollywood is also not Red Dune Messiah. You know who's Red Dune Messiah? Nerds. No one I know. No, that's not true. A lot of people here at The Ringer have Red Dune Messiah, and they too have said it's very weird, but I don't think that the folks voting for the Oscars

really know that. And so they're gearing up to award a film that may not deliver on the promise, the way that The Return of the King did, which was a very triumphal, satisfying, knot-tightener of a final installment. They destroy... Sauron? Yes, the eye.

The eye. Yeah, that was me doing the eye. Thank you. This is the eye. Poor Deneva and Linu had like a middle seat way in the back. It was so disgraceful. You think they stood up to let him go to the bathroom? I think Brady Corbett was definitely seated, like, in Z or whatever.

Same with Sean Baker. Why are these people sitting so far back? At least they had aisle seats. They did. They did. So they had easy access and also just like... Well, then he didn't have to get up for anything. Well, I know, but it's just, it's insulting.

OK. I'm not sure I totally understand the Sean. Did they not want to give away the game by not seating Sean Baker too close? Why was he in the 19th row when he had to go up there four times? I think he was like in the third or fourth row. That's, no, that's not true. You think he was all the way back? Yeah, definitely.

He was at least in the center on the aisle. He was like center aisle, and Corbet was on the right aisle. Let's stop recording, drive to the Dolby Theater, and we'll map out the whole room. Um... And then go to Johnny Raffis. Uh... Any other, what other notable awards did we have this evening?

Not too many more. Production design, of course, went to Wicked, as did best costumes. We talked about that. I thought Paul Taswell's speech was wonderful. Yeah, great moment. The costume designer for Wicked. Also great fit. He looked fantastic.

Yeah. That does raise a question though, which is one of my real pet peeves. Do you want to start bitching? Do you want to start saying, here's what sucked and here's what I didn't like? What do you think? I don't know how much more positivity I have.

We've gone through all the good stuff. Enora was my favorite movie of the year, and it won. So good job, Academy. That was great. I want to shout out June Squibb and Scarlett Johansson. Very funny. Their presentation together was amazing. Apparently, June Squibb is the star of Scar Jo's

forthcoming directorial debut. She did a great bit about how she's actually Paul Skarsgård in makeup to present the makeup Oscar. That was very, very funny. Andrew Garfield and Goldie Hawn. Just absolutely. Andrew Garfield on the run of a. Just absolutely. Andrew Garfield. On the run of a lifetime. The role of a lifetime.

I'm not seeing anything like this in my life. Simultaneously, Cougar Bate and the most desirable 40-year-old man in Hollywood? The glasses were there. The pendant, I believe... He was wearing a pendant. I don't know if it was the exact same. Okay. Looked great.

Another velvet suit, right? Yes. Escorting Goldie Hawn, supporting Goldie Hawn. A-plus stuff. That was nice. Congratulations to him. Do you think he makes it into the gold party tonight? Why would he not?

I don't know. I just, you know. Andrew Garfield? He hasn't won an Oscar. He was Spider-Man. Not the best one. Well, that's debatable know that's the he's not in the best movies. Okay. But did he really embody Peter? I like him very much. I do as well. I wish him all the best and if he's actually dating Monica Barbaro, salute to you sir. Yeah. I thought Amy Poehler was very funny presenting. Ringer podcaster Amy Poehler, she had some of the best lines of the night.

She presented animated feature and animated short. Is that right? No, that can't be right. Writing. No, she presented both screenplay because they were jokes about how terrible writing is. We didn't mention Peter Strawn, one for Conclave, which had been much predicted. Mace bit with his daughter in the sweater. Yes, it was for her, but not hers.

Yes. Which is something I can relate to. Most of the objects in my bedroom are for Alice, but they do not belong to her and never will. I don't know, the Quincy Jones tribute? Not bad. Not bad. Not anything.

Listen, I'm always happy to see Whoopi in Oprah. A lot of energy at a moment when we on the day, Queen Latifah then performed a song from The Wiz. Yes, the second song from The Wiz performed that night. There was a great moment about halfway through before the rest of the crowd really got into it, but Coleman Domingo, who is seated, I believe right next to Demi Moore,

or maybe one other, but front and center. He was vibing. He knew to stand up and just dance immediately. And he is, he is bringing the right energy to all of these. Agreed. And I... He also looked great. Yeah.

Um, I thought the fire department tribute was nice and I liked them giving the roast jokes to the officials from the fire department, particularly the Joker 2 joke, which was super funny and raw. There was a Rolex commercial that I enjoyed featuring several masters of cinema. It aired again. Yes. While you were...

A second time. Yes. OK. Martin Scorsese was at the center of this commercial. Leonardo DiCaprio was in it. Yeah. Was Inarritu in it? Big Jim was in it.

Big Jim, James Cameron. With a great shot of Big Jim in a rattan chair on the set of the Titanic with like the water. Yeah with the Omega right on his wrist. I enjoyed that. And yeah you know normal stuff just guys on 20 million dollar sets directing 300 million dollar movies wearing $80,000 watches. Yeah. Who among us? So there was another Rolex commercial that before at the very beginning of the show and I don't know where you were, but... You make it sound like I was like on my paper route. Where did I go?

No, you're outside. You weren't in the theater. And it was your more traditional, I mean there was like a lot of Roger Federer, which obviously caught my eye. Some Tiger in there. I believe Coco Goff was in the mix. And so it was like athletes. And then, sort of surprisingly to me, ended on Leo. And like the very last image, which that director's commercial actually does end on Leo. So if Leo's in his Rolex era, good for him, I guess. Yeah. I mean, these one battle after another budgets aren't going to pay for themselves. I guess. Yeah, I mean, these one battle after another budgets aren't going to pay for themselves. I guess so.

OK, let's go to the Black Lodge. Let's go to the dead space. Let's go to the place where all things go to die. OK. There were some unfortunate things during this telecast. What would you say was the most unfortunate thing that you witnessed? Amanda's hater corner has commenced.

So I think that there were two incidents during which you felt the need to share with the world your displeasure at being so close to me. That's not entirely true, but okay. And so the first was actually not the nadir of the night. I thought it was in the moment, but there was worse to come. But we will start with the James Bond tribute,

which I love James Bond. You do. And I didn't want any of this. And it was not made clear why we were saluting James Bond tonight of all nights. Like, I don't think it was like, hey, Amazon took over, so I guess we gotta throw a wake here. My understanding was is that it happened because Barbara Broccoli and Michael G. Wilson

were honored by the Governor's Awards. And they were, in identifying who were the recipients this year, which included Richard Curtis, Juliet Taylor, I'm forgetting one other really important person. Nevertheless, they were also acknowledged and they used that as a segue to perform what felt like an immemorial for James Bond. It was sort of like a weird, sexy funeral dirge.

The other person was Quincy Jones. Quincy Jones. So he did actually get, yeah, later. Um, yeah. So it started with Margaret Qualley of the substance performing a dance number with many other dancers. And she was good. But I thought that was appropriate

because Bond is famed for casting the young, beautiful woman. And she seems like the kind of actress you might find in a Bond movie in the future. That wouldn't stun you if it was like, Mark Requally is Dr. Alexandra Snake Pit. Yeah. So... Don't steal that name, Amazon.

Dr. Alexandra Snake Pit is copyrighted here by the show. I feel I have said this before on previous post-Oscars broadcasts. And I admire dance and even dance in cinema. But very often there's a ballet on my Oscar stage for absolutely no reason, including an in memoriam one year. And it's at some point you have to ask yourself, why is this ballet happening on my Oscar stage?

And I don't know if there was a good reason for this particular one. Well, it got worse. Exactly. You know, it wasn't just that there was a brief ballet. It turned into a musical review. Yeah. Which I am not the bondologist that you are, but to these, these Virginiers... Yes.

It was not good. Not, not, these were not good choices. There are many good, you know, Bond themes. Of course. Some of our greatest living artists have written and performed songs. Like Sam Smith. Well, I didn't endorse that one.

But first we had Lisa from Blackpink perform Live and Let Die. Yeah, currently starring on The White Lotus. Oh, yeah, I started season two. I got a... Congratulations. I'm gonna get there. Speed it up. You're on to season three, lady. That was two years ago. I told you.

Okay, so Lisa was doing Live and Let Die. Yes, an amazing song. Yeah. First of all, where was Axl Rose? That's really my question. Right. Like, okay, Paul couldn't do it. He just did SNL 50.

He's in his cryo chamber. He's got to power up for another 75 day tour. I understand. I respect Paul as the goat. Yeah. Let's get Axl. Okay. Let's put Axl in a mankini.

Let's just get him out there. Great. He's still smoking it. Okay. Let's put Axel in a mankini. Let's just get him out there. Great. He's still smoking it. Okay. Okay. Not done. So that goes on for a long time. I also just want to note that all of these performers were allowed multiple verses.

That's true. That was weird. So then out comes Doja Cat to sing Diamonds Are Forever. Yes. In a key different than the key being performed by the accompanying orchestra. We'll leave it at that. I won't leave it at that. She was out of tune and it was a train wreck. Well, that was...

That was very weird. And again, and it went on and on and on. And we're talking like eight minutes of like James Bond review at this point, and it's not done. And then they start playing the strains of one of the great Bond anthems and one of the only good original song winners in our time, and someone other than Adele is brought out to perform Skyfall.

Yep. I was so angry. I was just absolutely yelling at the top of my lungs. This is when I sent out a message about being concerned about being so close to you. And she got a second verse too. Yeah. What are we doing? I actually didn't think Ray was that bad.

But she's not Adele. No, she's... What do you think Adele was doing tonight? Is she still in Vegas? Is she with Chris Paul? I don't know. Chris Paul? Yeah. No, Rich Paul. Oh, Rich Paul. Sorry. Chris Paul is a basketball player. That would be shocking. Now that Oh, Rich Paul. Sorry.

Chris Paul is a basketball player. That would be shocking. That would be a headline. If Chris Paul started dating Adele, she left Rich Paul at the aisle? Okay. That was really tough. It was really bad. It smacked of weird 2010s Oscars, you know, where it'd be like, and now a tribute to cars

on film. Do you like driving in cars like we do? Here's a man dressed as a car performing the Bolshoi Ballet. You know, it's just really weird. Now I'm just imagining how psyched Knox would be. What's that man doing? It does, but it wasn't even, like, weird enough. You know, when I think about 2010's Oscars,

I think about Anne H Oscars, I think about Anne Hathaway and James Franco like train wreck or whatever that Seth McFarlane like show us your boobs number or all that, you know, bad decisions that I didn't enjoy but at least... I wrote that song. You and Camille? We'll get there! It's coming. I'm just warming up. But this was just like boring and bad.

It was. It felt like two things at once. It felt like a feint towards younger listeners or younger watchers. Don't turn off the telecast. Ray is coming up. Kids. Did you not go to Enora in the theater? Perhaps you'll want to listen to Doja Cat sing a 50-year-old Bond theme. So that was weird. And then on the other hand, it also felt like, and this is entirely speculation, but it felt like perhaps the Broccoli family was like, hey, guess what? We sold Bond, Bond is dead. So tell everyone Bond is dead and this new thing is not Bond. What we were doing was Bond, but we sold it. And so let's honor what it was. Now you could make the case that because of the ending of No Time to Die,

it was not the worst idea to honor Bond, but that movie was two and a half years ago. So why didn't we do it then? So you think that this was like Barbara Broccoli programming and sending out a subliminal message of like, RIP, my family's entire history, here's Doja Cat? Uh, frankly, I do. Okay, well...

Well, I mean, otherwise, why would the telecast do that? I have no idea. It was baffling. Okay. It was. I'm searching for answers. Okay, so that wasn't the worst thing that you saw. You were yelping a bit during that period, but not... No, I think I was, like, actively yelling.

Once they gave Rey a second verse verse with all respect to her. I was just like, this is not Adele. You will not do this to my beloved Skyfall. What's your favorite Doja Cat album? I just, it was, it was very long. And in general, there was just a lot of singing at this Oscars. As I said to you at some point, it felt like the Tonys. But it was the Oscars. Okay, we're you at some point, it felt like the Tonys. Um, but it was the Oscars.

Okay, we're, we're, then we're getting to- We're careening around Amanda's hater corner to the other side of the corner. Now what, what lives on that corner? What do you mean? I'm just trying to set you up for- Oh, original song. Yeah.

Okay. I was just like doing some geometry. Wait, where am I? And I was like, which corner? Did you drop a pin? Do I have to come up with a new name for the corner? Yes. Um, so Camille and, and the other French guy, Did you drop a pin? Do I have to come up with a new name for the corner?

Yes. So Camille and the other French guy won for El Mal from Emilia Perez. Yes. And they got up and gave a whole speech and it was about how El Mal is about, you know, corruption and other stuff. And that was fine. And they talked for a long time. And then, just as the music was starting,

Camille started singing. She was attempting to lead a sing-along with the crowd. Unfortunately, none of the songs in Emilia Perez are memorable, and everyone now hates that movie. But she also kept going. And for some reason, the music, which I thought for the most, they were responsive, you know, they were reactive, but the music did not drown her out.

And it just kept going and going and going. And I was just curled up in a fetal position. It was absolutely awful. It wasn't good. It wasn't good. It's not a good category. No. I think they need to rethink that category as well. I do as as as you know, um

Unfortunately even under my new Like rules for the the category which would be it has to be a song that is In the in the text and in the story of the film. It can't just be like tacked on at the end. Okay the story of the film, it can't just be like tacked on at the end. Okay. Uh, Elmall would qualify. However, under my new rules, you would also have to vote for good songs. So in that sense, it would be an L.

Who is allowing you to institute new rules? Well, I'm, I'm now in charge of the Academy because that comes with the access to your ADU. So congratulations to me. We're gonna have to go back maybe later this week and just replay what it is I actually agreed to. Because now, I think there's some fanciful notions of what's actually gonna transpire in that space. Uh, I mean, what else? What else from this show?

Conan had very few kind of pre-taped bits, yet Cinema Streams was really the only one of note, which also featured Martin Scorsese, which was very funny, but felt more like an SNL sketch. Kimmel would do some of those from time to time in the last few years as well. Very few presenter bits, which, you know, can really go both ways.

That you can sit through some really tough ones. On the other hand, when done right, they are a pop of celebrity, of humor, you know, they're memorable and you get to see some famous people. I guess we didn't really see that many, like big movie stars besides the nominees. No, and there were some, none of these, there's nothing wrong with any of these people,

but Miles Teller and Miley Cyrus, or Darryl Hannah by herself, Just seemed like kind of an odd collection. I thought it was very nice when Quentin Tarantino came out to give Best Director a prize he has not been given at the Academy Awards. And as soon as he walked out, I knew Sean Baker was gonna win because Sean and Quentin are friends and Sean frequents Quentin's movie theater

and there is a nice synchronicity there and I thought Sean was very sweet about, you know, what Quentin's movies are and what they've meant to him. But, um, it was just a kind of an odd group of presenters, and some of it was like, sure, everybody's shooting the Nolan movie, and some of it was like, okay, maybe the Oscars are no longer Hollywood prom. And some of it was just like, were these purposeful choices?

I couldn't really figure it out. I did like Billy Crystal and Meg Ryan at the end. That was nice. I thought that was a very inspired choice and they were both good. Yeah. And they and they use the When Harry Met Sally IP for good instead of for mayo. So they use to sell.

Oh, they. Yeah. They have commercials. What kind of mayo is it? As you know, I don't eat mayo. I will have an aioli. We, yes, yeah. I'm on the record about that. Are there any flavors of aioli that you turned down?

Because they're just too mayo. They're not, they aren't like far off on the spectrum towards aioli. Cat litter flavored or like a sewer flavored. I'm not really into those. But you know, your lemon aioli, your garlic aioli. Yeah, absolutely. Lovely.

I'm in. They were very nice. It was nice to see them. 35 years ago, Billy said, was his first time hosting the Oscars. Yeah, I think I might've mentioned that I enjoyed listening to Crystal on Conan's pod a few months ago, and they talked a lot about the Oscars,

in part because Conan was getting ready, and I wonder with Conan now, I mean, he no longer has a talk show. I think he still has a series on Max, which is more of a travel show. And he has kind of settled into this emeritus, we can all agree that this guy is fun, role? He podcasts, right?

He of course has a huge podcast. Yeah, I was gonna say, excuse me. No, but I mean, in terms of like, aside from, not that podcasting isn't a very important work. Yeah, I was gonna say, excuse me. No, but I mean, in terms of like, aside from, not that podcasting isn't a very important work. Yeah, I was gonna say. And should be honored at the Academy Awards, frankly, if you ask me. He is our peer, okay? He is our peer.

Many people are saying I'm peers with Conan O'Brien. He certainly feels like somebody who could host this show five times in a row. I really liked it. I don't know if he would have the same magic as the first time, but he just is very well suited to this kind of thing, and it's a hard job. Yeah. And it's a hard job.

And it's been hard for them over the years to find people. One of the reasons why they've gone back to Kimmel so many times is because he's one of the very few people who not only can do it, but is good at it. So I don't know, I thought that was nice that all of that worked out. The telecast still being a little under four hours. Even I, who loves this shit, was like,

this is dragging in the Middle. Yes. Too many performances there. We spent a lot of time on almost everything. And, you know, I actually really liked the Fab Five presenters for both costume design and cinematography. That was where I wanted to end this. Thank you for reminding me. And I liked that because instead of, you know,

I believe last year it was used in the acting categories and this year, actors from each of the films came and spoke to either the costume designer or the cinematographer who had worked on the film and that, and was able to illuminate, and I think a very specific way why, what those individual people do to the film and and what it means to the to the larger product that you see. So I thought

that was great I really liked it that obviously does take more time and you're doing if you're doing that in the craft categories but you're not cutting down because there's we got a lot of clips And so you're getting clips in other categories, and then you're just not turning the dial off on some speeches that just went way, way too long. And I'm not talking about Adrienne Brody. I'm talking about, you know, I don't need to single people out, but there were just some people that didn't stop talking. So...

Yeah, I mean, that's always the case, right? There was just no place... There were no cuts at any point. I think this is obviously a really hard show to produce, and it always goes to somewhere between three hours and 20 minutes to three hours and 50 minutes, because things like that happen, people talk too long, some bits don't work as well,

or performance is longer than it was during rehearsal. This year was yet another year in which, like, someone like Adrienne Brody, who's winning one of the four or three biggest awards of the night is getting cut off after 90 seconds or 75 seconds. And I, my reaction to that is always like, why the fuck are we even here? Yeah.

Like this is the best actor of the year. Why are we cutting this person off? Like what, how does this make any sense? If people are watching the show right now, they're not going to turn it off because Adrienne Brody went 45 seconds too long before Best Picture. That's fucking idiotic. But it's because the shows are so front-loaded and they're not managed properly. This happens every year, so I'm not like casting aspersions on this year's producers. It always happens. Nevertheless, the presenters thing, that's

definitely one of the reasons why it was longer. I liked that, that particular strategy that you highlighted, which is bringing out people who are associated with the film, who are actors, who are good at reading lines, who can speak to the craft, but not make it boring. I didn't like the weird inconsistency with the acting performances where we had Dave Indjahr-Randolph and Robert Downey Jr. both of them were great and I thought did fine jobs at this but basically kind of like gave little mini speeches

about each nominee in the supporting categories but then in the actor and actress category. Yes, but we know exactly why. But is it only because of Carlos looking at Gaston? Yes, it is because you turned to me. That's fucking stupid. Well, a lot of things are stupid at the Oscars but you did also turn to me,

I think during the David Joy Randolph's presentation, to say, so they're just gonna have Emma Stone come out and say this about, like, and speak about Carla Sofia Gascon, like nothing happened. And you were like, they can't do that, right? They didn't do it. They didn't do it, they had to make a choice. I agree that it was-

Weird compromise though. So like we saw clips for the best actor and best actress, but we didn't see clips for the supporting actors, why? I don you know, I agree that it was... Weird compromise, though. So, like, we saw clips for the best actor and best actress, but we didn't see clips for the supporting actors? Why? I mean, I don't know. I don't know. I didn't like that. As you know, I want clips. People really thought that there were gonna be clips, and then there ultimately were.

Right, but not in the acting categories. Not in the acting categories. But there were, like, in screenplay, for example. Not in supporting, but there were in actor and actress. Yes, and in screenplay, and in a bunch of others, too. I don't know. You know, there were a lot of inconsistencies. It honestly felt like there were a actor and actress. Yes, and in screenplay and in a bunch of others too. I don't know. You know, there were a lot of inconsistencies. It honestly felt like there were a lot of fixes in this,

whether it was substituting for people who couldn't be there to present or sit in the front row trying to, you know, fix things like who actually wants to present best actress. Like, they were patching it together. And to their credit, like, there weren't any obvious problems in the show. No. It went well. It was just a little strangely paced, I think. They didn't give out a single award until 4.30 p.m. PST.

So that's 30 minutes into the show. Mm-hmm. Which, that's a long time. Yeah. Two and a half hours in, they had nine awards to give out left. Right. That's not the best pacing,

but it's not that big of a deal. To me, two and a half hours in, they had nine awards to give left. That's not the best pacing, but it's not that big of a deal. To me, it's more like you could feel the seams almost entirely maybe because of the Amelia Perez thing, which just kind of threw everything into a wrinkle. And I think attendance just seemed a little low in terms of non-nominees. I don't think, there were very few people

not affiliated with a nominated film who you recognize in the audience, with the exception of Andrew Garfield. That's a great point. Yeah. And certainly you're Leo, Ben, Matt, Cruz, Denzel, Meryl Streep, Julia Roberts, that whole, this is the third year in a row we've been saying like,

these people do not go. No. They do not, there's not a reason to go for them anymore, which feels different, right? It doesn't feel like prom in the same way. And I think maybe that doesn't matter for younger audiences who like don't care that much about seeing Meryl Streep

or whatever, but to me, one of the appeals of the Oscars has always been, like, all the famous people in a room together having to interact. And we don't really... We didn't see them really interacting very much, just because that's not the way the telecast was scheduled and people weren't... They weren't cutting back and forth. And it seemed like there weren't that many people there

beyond the cast of Enora and the cast of The Brutalist. And Conclave, I guess a few people were there, but... Here, let's talk about Conclave for a second, which just, I guess it won one award? One award. And they were all there, but how do you feel about having worn a pope's hat? Not a pope's hat, a Cardinal's hat. Sorry.

I feel fine. Um, my long history with Christianity is documented on this podcast. Um, it's a film I enjoyed. I think what happened is right. I think if it had won Best Picture, that would have been even stranger. I completely agree, but like four hours ago, we were like, oh no, it could be a lot of things. Yeah, I completely agree. But like four hours ago, we were like, we don't know. It could be a lot of things. Yeah, I definitely thought there was a chance it could win.

And as usual, I would love to know what the data could tell us about the voting results. I don't feel that it is as close as it was, given how many awards they won, and the fact that Mikey Madison also won. Now I'm like, good lord. Maybe Inora really significantly outpaced everything. But that's the thing is, like, we were talking about, like,

oh, could a movie like The Brutalist, Bagel, it didn't, A Complete Unknown did, and Conclave only went one for eight or nine, whatever it was nominated for, which are not great showings. Even Amelia Perez won two Academy Awards. So, uh, you know, better luck next time, popes. Yeah.

Seems like Pope Francis is in better health. Oh, I'm glad to hear. I actually, I forgot to check up on that. I spoke with him today. Okay, good. He said, hey man, good luck on the show. Hope you guys do well. Any closing thoughts?

So you think it wasn't even close? You think it was just a Nora all the way through? Five for six. I mean, I tend to agree with you. Five for six. Yeah. Do you think that that suggests just a greater, like, people just really like Enora? Do you think that there were just a lot of Enora,

like, first ticket ballots? Do you think? I think the general consensus, both among movie fans and people within the Academy, is that this is a fine, maybe even good year and not a great year. Completely agree. And that Enora is the film that everyone could most agree on, that they had a good time with, that had good craft,

and had thoughtful ideas that you were presented with, but were not solved. Which is something that the Oscars used to not like and now likes a lot. And I find that interesting. This sort of like semi-ambiguous downer ending can now win you an Academy Award. And so I think it just, it succeeded in part because of who it was competing against, which is the case every year, right?

Yeah, I think so. I am also wondering, do you think it was just the most widely seen in the Academy anyway? Because I'm, you know, imagining like a lot of people being like, well, I haven't watched that many, but here in Norris, you know, kind of got some... I think it had the longest shelf life other than Dune Part II because it was rubber stamped at Cannes. And that rubber stamping really matters. You know, we saw Anatomy of a Fall win a screenwriting Oscar last year, a movie that, like, in the past would never be competing at the Academy Awards. So, I guess we'll have to keep a close eye on what's gonna win the Palm this year.

You won't be there, and neither will I. You don't know that I won't be there. You gonna go? Well, listen, it's March, you know? You should wear that suit to honor Jacques Audiard. This suit has not ripped yet. Okay. Are you gonna go? Listen, it's March. You should wear that suit to honor Jacques Audiard. This suit is not ripped yet. But I just have to, actually that's not true.

I have a change of clothes. It's 914, the night is young. Yeah, no, but I don't think I'm... What are you gonna go do after this? It's a great question. I was not invited to any parties. So that's actually not true. I was invited, Nian invited me to the party, but I think traffic is gonna be pretty tough.

You were not invited to the Universal Party, eh? No. They didn't. They invited you? They did, yeah. You know, I also really, I was not invited to the Wall Street Journal party with Harrison Ford, the Wall Street Journal magazine party, even though I know the editor, Sarah Ball, who's a great editor.

Sarah, I would have loved to come to your party. What's the median age at that party? 74? It looked fun. It was at the Chateau. I'll show up. I don't care. I can hang. Hard to believe you're not getting these invites. What's the median age at that party? 74? It looked fun. It was at the Chateau. I'll show up. I don't care. I can hang. Hard to believe you're not getting these invites. Well, this has been a kind of fun Oscar season. I missed you for the first three months.

I want to thank Joanna Robinson. Joanna will be joining us later this week on the mailbag to talk about her thoughts. Oh, I didn't know. In person? In person. She's here in Los Angeles. That's really great news for me. Which will be really fun. I'm very curious. We heard from her a little bit during the show,

which she helped me out enormously while you were on leave, so that was great. She was wonderful. I'm really excited to see her. Also, I guess she's here for the whole... The White Lotus Run. I just wanna go get a drink with Joanna. I sent her a note.

I sent a note to her and Rob Mahoney that I've been very mixed on Severance, but I've been really loving their podcasts. Okay, they're wonderful at podcasting, even though Rob is my nemesis. Yes. We'll find some opportunities to ask her what she thought. Maybe she'll totally disagree.

Maybe she'll say Enora is hot trash and should be deleted from all the hard drives of the world. Do you think she'll say that? Yes, absolutely. I think that sounds exactly right. Bobby Wagner, any closing thoughts? Well, one of my closing thoughts is that Joanna is going to be really disappointed that Amy Adams did not win for her performance this year in the film The Night Bitch or just Night Bitch, no the. There's no the.

Social network style. Yeah. Lose the the. It's just Night Bitch. I guess my final thoughts here are that, you know, I crunched the numbers a second time because you questioned my math earlier. I was so offended by that. All this hard work that I put into the big Oscar bet. What's that all about? Yeah. Um, I didn't, I didn't, I never questioned you. Um, I believe in you. So the final outcomes.

Yes. Let's, let's get some great graphics work going down here as I get my close up. We're trying to get this episode up as quickly as possible. So we will not be getting great graphics. We're going, um, Amanda's going Marvel executive moment. Like we just got to get back with some more CGI. Just more Red Hulk. Just take it apart. More red. Final predictions outcomes. Mm-hmm. Amanda you predicted 16 of 23 I predicted 17 of 23. Right but we didn't like there's no consequence to that. Well, the consequence is you lost. And for the big Oscar bet, you scored 43 points,

and I scored 40. I did. And it all came down to Sean Baker over Brady Corbett. In Best Director. Yes, it did. So you win whatever that prize is, which we'll have to listen to on maybe Wednesday's episode of the show.

OK. I'm so thrilled. Thank you so much. We did it. We did what? Thank you everyone. Well, speaking of that Wednesday episode, people can submit questions for it, right?

Our post-Oscars Hangover Mailbag. Thank you, Bobby. Very good point. What is the email address that people should send questions to? BigPicMailbag at gmail.com. B-I-G-P-I-C mailbag at gmail.com. B-I-G-P-I-C mailbag at gmail.com. Let's just say I don't think the ratings will be super high for this telecast.

We will talk about that. Are you going to lose any sleep over that? No, as I said, I've kind of let go of a lot of that stuff, but it is relevant, I think, to what we do. And we'll talk about if there's any blowback from the parties. What do you think? I mean, it is only 917 here. So, you know, get in touch. I guess by the time people are listening to this, I'll be asleep. I've got a black car waiting to take me to the chateau right now. So see you guys later. Thanks so much to Bobby Wagner, our producer for his work on this episode

and throughout award season. Thank you very much to John Richter and Corey McConnell on the video side for taking care of us for the pre-show and for this episode. Thank you guys. And for sitting through the entire award show with us and listening to me yell. In lieu of Jack Sanders as well, who also was helping us throughout this season.

This is not the end of the show, but it is mercifully the end of this season. Jack Monvoyage, enjoy. Enjoy Sweden and parts unknown. Thank you all to the listeners and watchers of this show. Two people in their 40s doing their best. We'll be back later this week.