The Big Picture - The 2026 Alternative Oscars, a.k.a. the 6th Annual Big Picks! Plus: The Craziest Awards Season in Years.

Episode Date: March 3, 2026

Sean and Amanda are joined by friend of the pod Wesley Morris for a very special episode! First, they react to the news that Paramount has won the bidding war for Warner Bros. and have an extensive conversation on the long-term ramifications for the industry (4:46). Next, they recap three recent awards shows with the ACE Awards, the PGAs, and the Actor Awards, and dissect what it means for the two-horse Best Picture race between ‘One Battle After Another’ and ‘Sinners’ (35:47). Lastly, they kick off their sixth annual Alternative Oscar awards (a.k.a. the Big Picks), in which they award alternative nominees and winners for the major Oscar categories, as well as some additional homemade categories which they believe should exist at the Academy Awards (1:30:00). Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guest: Wesley Morris Producer: Jack Sanders Production Support: Lucas Cavanagh Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the Personal Price Plan®️. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there®️. Visit us in stores and online https://Warbyparker.com/BIGPICTURE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is brought to by Uber Eats. It's winter and you can now get almost anything you need for the coldest months of the year delivered with Uber Eats. What do I mean by almost? Well, you can't get a ski slope delivered, but you can get dish slope delivered. Fair weather, no. Shredded cheddar. Yes. Snow Angel, no. Angel hair pasta. Yes. Uber Eats can get you all that along with the side of garlic bread and cream brule to top it all off. Get almost, almost anything this winter with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol and select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See App for details. I'm Sean Fennessey. I'm Amanda Dobbin. And this is the Big Picture A Conversation Show about the sixth annual alternative Oscars, aka the Big Picks. That means Wesley Morris is here in the flesh.

Hello. Hi. Thank you for being here. All the way from New York. I'm all the way in the flesh. It's true. We missed you last year. We need you on this episode. Thank God you're here.

There's so much to talk about on this episode. It's not just going to be the alternative Oscars. It's going to be... I mean, there's just so much stuff. We got the awards race. We have the most significant merger in recent Hollywood history. We have a lot of conversation about how people's faces look on television. There's so much coming up here.

Yes, it is important. And also our own faces. We're not our own faces. I don't really think about my face. You look great. Just keep going. The SAG Awards happened over the weekend, aka the Actor Awards, the Producers Guild Awards. I just almost went like this.

The what? Yes. And we have our own hardwareed adult. out as well, which we will do so. You can only say actors now. It just sounds right. Does it? It does not.

Okay. We will talk about it right after this. It sounds better than sag. In this episode of the big picture is presented by State Farm. Sure, being an expert and movie trivia is impressive. You know, it's even more impressive? Being smart about saving money. And a great way to do that is by saving when you choose to bundle home and auto with the State Farm

Personal Price Plan. Bundling. Just another way to save with the personal price plan. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Roverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. Okay. Before we start, we have a programming note.

Yes. We are entering the realm of live programming on the big picture. We will be doing live episodes of this show on Netflix. I'm very excited. Yes, we have done them before, but not on Netflix. Not on Netflix. As a kickoff next week, we are doing a live mailbag. It will air live on Netflix.

Oh, mail bag is a good way to do it. Yes. noon Pacific 3 p.m. Eastern. Why did you say April? It's March 8th. March 8th. Why did I write April? It's March 8th. This is a very specific mailbag. It is in anything but Oscars mailbag. No Oscar talk on this mailbag. We've been doing a lot of Oscar talk. The season's been too long. It's actually gotten very interesting recently and I'm happy about that. But no Oscars on this episode. Maybe I'll submit a question. Please do. If you would like to submit a question to reach us, you can email us at big pick mailbag at gmail.com. What is that email?

I'm a big pick mailbag, but do it this way. Big pick mailbag at gmail.com. Yes. We also will be. It's like 1947 and this new device called television has just been invented. And we have our pitchwoman for ivory, ivory detergent. This is ivory, not ebony detergent, just for the record. Ebony detergent is a whole other thing.

We're also going to be going live after the Academy Awards. Many people who listen to this show or watch this show have been asking us to do this for years and years. And we are finally going to do it. I think really for the first time in big picture history. We were going. We were live for Parasite when your voice cracked. Were we live on YouTube? We were live on YouTube. You're still holding that. Oh my God. Were we live? Yes. We were. Wow. I promise you that we were. I promise you that's right. I don't remember that. And it was exciting. Thanks for pointing out to my voice cracked. No, but we were talking recently about our various Apex Mountains on this podcast. And that was yours. So I remember. I remember. I remember. Remembering fun. When my voice failed. Remember Parasite winning? God, that was so fun. Oh, you know what I think about all the time. I mean, that is great, but I think about Kota winning all the time.

Yeah. I mean, that was a Zoom Oscar's episode. I mean, but think about it. Is this the right order? Did it go Green Book? Parasite. No, no Madland. No, mad land.

No, no mad land. That was Whiplash City back then. Wow. Every year was a rejection of the previous year. I mean. And but also both Nomadland and Coda were overshadowed. Nomadland was the second to last award given out that night. And the last award was the presumptive best Oscar for Chadwick Bozeman that instead went to Anthony Hopkins.

Who wasn't even there. So the very last thing you saw was like Anthony Hopkins is Zoom acceptance. And then Coda was the slap. Wow. We're going to talk a lot more about previous iterations. of the Oscars and what impact they are going to have on this race. Yeah. Before we do that, we have to talk about Paramount and Warner Brothers because, you know,

that that news broke late Thursday afternoon. I'll set the scene for you. Sitting at my daughter's music class, 3.30 in the afternoon. Jack texts me the news. Hey, this happened. Do you want to address this? Wrote my little cold open while sitting in the waiting room of the music class, and raced back to the office, looked down the barrel of that camera, shared some,

immediate thoughts and then over the weekend you know it does seem like the industry is kind of on fire you guys were at my place last night where we watched the actor awards and invariably it led to a discussion about Paramount and and Warner Brothers and the acquisition of the company

Amanda yeah I feel awesome okay no are you kidding what I was okay well that was a little that was a little ivory detergent it's a little ivory detergent no Once again, we live in hell. It's horrible.

And I think the fact that everyone who knows, quote, unquote, has been predicting this since the beginning. And really... Wait, since the beginning of what the... Since the original Netflix deal. Once the offer was out there. Once it was announced that they were going to be sold, basically. Okay. And even when Netflix announced, oh, we've, you know, agreed to a deal for Warner Brothers.

Everyone was saying, no, no, no. It's not going to go through. And it will be paramount. That was the talk around town. That was what people who understand Hollywood, business, and angry, rich people. I remember vividly we were at a holiday party, like, a day after it was announced and all the people who were there who were plugged in were telling us that. And I think even before that, when the Warner's discovery merger happened, it was like a this is a built-to-sell situation. Built to sell.

Yes. And that, listen, I have no business degree. You know, I'm self-taught. Wait, wait. But I'm going to absorb that. A woman in STEM. But the common wisdom or the industry people were saying that, I mean, this has just been a series of like merger Legos that people have been building and put together for a long period of time. So, you know, was it foretold in a, in a like spreadsheet sense?

Sure, maybe. But it feels terrible all the same. Yeah, mostly feels terrible. It feels awful. There was some reporting about it this weekend, or I guess this morning, actually, which relates to the impact it will have on the things that we cover and care about in general. $6 billion in budget cuts expected, which is going to mean the loss of a lot of jobs. And these are redundant, like so-called redundancy.

Yes, right. Marketing, business affairs, all these spaces where they're going to have a lot of overlap, but also an intention to make 15 movies at Paramount and 15 movies at Warner Brothers and have those two groups operating still with some continuity, a little unclear how that's actually going to shake out. And then in addition to that, the proper merging of Paramount Plus and HBO, that those two streaming services will come together. I think there's a lot more that's going to come here.

Hopefully they're not coming together. I don't know how. We actually were talking about this last night. You can come over here and you can come over here. There's no coming together. I don't, well, we would all love to come together, normally speaking. But I think the 30 movies thing is hard to believe. That's going to be hard.

It's all hard to believe. This is all the talk that happens while you're waiting for approval and you're trying to get everyone to sign on the dotted line. And you're trying to get like Casey Boyce to not jump ship. which and his whole team. I don't want to dismiss the entire team at HBO. And it's just like Ted Sarandos was on the town last week saying

the business will remain largely unchanged. That was his line. Largely is doing a lot of work. This is our plan. As much work as his jeans were doing last week. Those jeans were working. Yeah.

Man wore, was what, was he also in a double breasted? He was in a double-breasted tuxedo. He was in a double-breasted tuxedo jacket. Yeah. With What do you think it's not velvet? Sorry, it could be velvet.

Excuse me, I will, I retract that. He just got $2.8 billion for free. I will, I will take, and I love that you just put it right in his pocket. It just goes right in his pocket. Well, that is one of... Which makes the jeans even more deplorable, to be honest. Business up top party down below.

Listen, he got out, he's not in a bidding more anymore, and so he's wearing jeans. He's relaxed. Yeah. I just sort of want to remove the people from this for a second. Yeah. Though you shouldn't. Because one thing about this is it's $2.8 billion is not going in his pocket.

But the way that this deal is enriching a few number of executives who were put in place to execute this Lego plan is enraging. Continue. I think the reason. I just sort of want to think about what all of the bad news, the people losing jobs. Yeah. the delusions were being asked to accept about the reality, the sort of paradisiical reality of what, what awaits us on the other side of the signing of this deal,

the approval of it, which is almost certain to happen now because, sure, you know, Larry Ellison be partying with the MAGAs. Yeah. I don't, yeah. The California State Attorney General has said that they will fight this, right? that there is an attempt to, I don't know about fight it,

but they will evaluate it aggressively. I don't know if they have enough strength to block it. There's also, I guess, fewer questions about international approval than there would have been with Netflix. The Netflix deal would have been harder to go through because Europe might have just said no. We see this as a monopoly based on our standards, less true for Paramount and Warner Brothers.

I think it's just such a, I mean, this is like the ultimate signifier. I've got many other, like, little things that it's sort of signified that this could happen. But now that this is happening, there are so many other things to go. Well, first of all, like, I would love to hear you guys talk to me about why this even needs to happen. It doesn't. It doesn't.

Other than the, it only needs to happen in the business spreadsheet shareholders leveraging. Like, in this building block of nonsense, it has nothing to do with art. or movies or TV or anything or jobs, but just the structures that were put together financially 10, 15, whenever, 20 years ago, according to the business people. But it doesn't. It's just like a, it's an outcome of conglomeration that once a studio becomes something that is only a piece of a larger puzzle

and that synergies within larger conglomerates are more valuable, that you need to basically plug into something that has more than just the one output of a movie studio. You need to have a streamer. You need to be related to telecom. But they already had all these things. But they didn't have a larger tech apparatus and that's the, that is the case that David Ellison is making. Like what is the Pokemon that was that you really needed to complete your set? I'm not, I'm not justifying the acquisition because I've said the same thing that Amanda just said, this didn't have to happen. It's happening because of greed. But if you believe David Ellison, if you accept him at his word, he's going to say, we're going to change the way that Hollywood

It operates by using technology, which is at our fingertips because my father is the head of one of the most powerful technology companies in the world and one of the richest, more importantly. Anytime you were talking about a business transaction by saying the words, my father. It's really not, it's not good. Hang up the phone. Hang it up. Well, David Zazlov did not hang up. He accepted. And so this is where we're at.

A series of problems. I don't, I, it's going to take a while for this to get approved. I don't, you know, I don't know how often. a year? It feels like it feels like we will look at January 2027 maybe for when this would be approved, which would be while the Trump administration is still in office. The midterms will have happened by then, which will be an interesting turn of events in the event that it is not approved by November in the event that there is a

big blue wave. Maybe Congress makes more noise around this than they normally would. That's yet to be seen. But does Congress have anything to do ultimately with the approver? I mean, I just It's the DOJ. I don't know. I do not see the FCC or, you know, to quote a different show

that talks about this stuff all the time, Pamela Joe Bondi. Choosing to do anything other than stamp yes because there might be a seat on a yacht. Yeah. We're working at that level.

I mean, I just think it's that simple. I don't know. I don't know that Congress I mean, of course, traditionally Congress has a role to play. I don't know if they'll be allowed to play their role. Or if the role they play will matter ultimately. You know, Ruben Gallegos, the senator, he over the weekend said, like, basically like, sure, keep merging and building up these mega companies. Because as soon as we're back in power, we're going to start breaking them up.

He was very vociferous about that. He's one of the very few Democratic politicians who is as. Good for him. Good for him. Good for him. Good for him. Good for him. full-throated about that kind of thing.

But I, like with all these things that have happened in the last 14 months, I wonder how much of what has transpired can be detranspire, right? How much can be reversed? They very rarely get broken up. I just don't see this happening in the way that, I mean, it's a great thing to promise to try to do. I just don't know how doable it will ultimately be. But again, now I'm sort of coming back to what this is going to look like for my Friday night.

Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Either at home or at the movies. What am I doing on Sundays? I mean, Sunday, for millions of us, it's like... HBO time. It's HBO time. It's still, after all these years, HBO time.

And Paramount's second biggest movie in the last year is something called Screen 7. Yes, the number one movie at the box office this weekend. Their second biggest movie is the seventh mission impossible? Is it the seventh one? The eighth one? Yeah, eight, right? I mean... The final reckoning.

It's clear they needed something to happen. But I'm like, can y'all study the legacy of Sherry? Lansing. I mean, there's a whole history here. I mean, again, I'm probably down here when really we need to stay up here because they don't, they don't even, I am talking about this like, they're experiencing a creative crisis when the reality is what I'm just, what is one person's jewel is another person's excrement and, you know, they can find a way to turn this shit into money, whether,

whether it's an actual gem or it's stay shit or not. I think Amanda's Lego metaphor is apt. I think that this was like an acquisition of a lot of individualized pieces of Legos. And one of them is a big Batman Lego and one of them is a Harry Potter Lego and one of them is a Game of Thrones Lego. And they're going to like stack them and try to build a beautiful tower of content and try to synergize them across technology and make a lot of money.

That's the plan. But all right. Is it going to work? I don't know. Maybe. We just watched the former set. Awards last night. This is the thing I think about all the time.

Like, I'm a big fan of, like, where is, where is this person right now? Where is X? Like, what happens to X? Uh, I can name 15 actors. Like, this isn't, like, a real actor crisis, right? Whether you're at the bottom of that ladder or at the tippity top. This is like, this is less for everybody. Less work, probably money.

Well, work and money. Those are the two most important things. I don't know. I just don't know. I just, this feels apocalyptic in ways that, I mean, I'm sure the people who are experiencing this on the receiving end understand what a cataclysm this is. But I don't know, has the public ever really protested?

No, and they won't hear. One of these situations. Because I feel like if you lay it out, I mean, in a way, in a much more articulate way than I could, like, what really is about to happen? What is three years from now if this goes through? What does it look like? Does it feel like what things felt like during the pandemic or the strike? I mean, maybe a little bit more because this is actually a really interesting topic. I was just talking to Amanda right before we started recording about how neon is effectively changing ownership right now.

that a new investor is coming in. To do what? 30 West is moving out. This company Department M is coming in. My guess is that it's to supercharge neon to make them a bigger studio. And so there is about to be a moment because we're taking a legacy studio off the board. We took Fox off the board seven years ago. MGM and Amazon merged.

So there's like a bit of a vacuum here, to your point about jobs and opportunities. So Neon and A24 are trying to backfill Moobie's trying to be A24 now. There's something, there's like a shift. And then behind them is like Black Bear is in, K is in all these smaller indies are in, and there's an attempt to kind of like rebuild a couple of bigger studios and then backfill the indies behind them.

Whether or not that can happen, it's harder now than it used to be. Yeah, but there's two giant pack people out there. Pack people. Just like pack, pack entities that like the minute neon builds itself into something, you know, gobbleable. Somebody will gobble it. Somebody will gobble it.

People haven't saying that about 824 for years, then that may happen. You know, the fact that Apple didn't buy and has not bought 824, I still find to be really interesting. Have they tried? I mean, but that's a company with integrity as far as, I mean, at least business integrity, right? Like, all these companies are built to sell.

I think it's just also that they haven't had as much business success with, you know, it's a drop in the bucket. Yeah, why would they, yeah, why would Apple? Yeah, why would Apple got, oh, you meant 824. 824. I'm sorry, 824. No, no. Of course, 824, I love you. Sure, don't email me.

Don't, bros, don't email me. But, no, Apple. Apple buying it doesn't seem to me. make any sense just because like what Apple's forays into? I think if they just really want to be in a more aggressive horse race around building a content library, that's something that that's really the only case for it. This is like not our area of expertise. I just think it's really interesting that if you, by taking that huge player off the board,

you're going to have fewer jobs, fewer opportunities, fewer films, fewer television shows, in all likelihood. But I like being stupid about it because my lack of educational knowledge about how business deals work. I mean, it allows me to sort of think about what really it's going to mean for my TV watching a movie going life.

And the things, I don't know, it's just like, these people are fucking with our dreams here. No, and I mean that, yeah. They are fucking with how we develop as a culture, how we come to understand ourselves as a people.

What, what this country ought to or should look like 40 years from now I'm in the middle of y'all have heard me talk about this for 11 years but like I'm almost finished and you know like I've been using

this this opportunity to work on this book to understand that the history of our country pretty much the entire history of our country can be told through American movies

between like 19 15 and like formerly today. Yeah. And yeah. In all kinds of ways. Like the farm crisis of the 1980s has been documented in Hollywood movies. Yeah.

Like it's still happening. Yeah. It is in one battle after another. Like it may not be exactly how you want it told. Yeah, but it is a contemporary portrait. Sean. And both are Warner Brothers movies. Right.

Right. But let's just really dial that back a little bit, right? Because I'm not talking about movies that even go to the Oscars. Right, right. I'm talking about movies that just got made. You're right, of course. And nobody went to see them, but they're still with us. Or like they were kind of hits, but, you know, the Academy didn't want to do anything with them.

I'm talking about an entire ecosystem that existed purely for the sake of art itself. and rolling the dice on the possibility that if we put Jessica Lang in a movie about her Nazi father and she discovers that he's a Nazi and then she defends him in the courtroom trial this is music box, a very good movie from 1989. Somebody might want to go.

Amin Mueller-Stahl? It's a good movie. Is it Costa Gavris? Costa Gavris. Ding-de-ding, ding, ding. So I'm just saying like there's like a whole there's a whole kind of star we don't get.

There is a whole mode of acting that never gets developed. I think you're right. I mean, I'm just thinking about this from the standpoint of history. And we're already in the cataclysm. We've been in it for 15,

almost 20 years now where the priorities have just completely shifted. And what it's going to look like to know what this country was like just by going to the movies is going to be harder to discern. It's just not reflecting reality.

And not that the movies were reflective of the actual reality, but every prong of every crisis can be found in a national crisis, like local crisis, can be found, you know, up to like, I would say, like maybe the early 2000s in our movies.

And I would include the, you know, the 2000s themselves as being still interested in what it is like to live in this country at that moment in real time. We talked about this through 25 for 25. And our top three were movies where we were sort of like past, present, future,

where we talked about, there will be blood 25th hour and the social network has this kind of trilogy of movies that we're reflecting on where we came from, where we are, where we're going. And I think movies will still do that. They can still do that.

There's still going to be a lot of, you know, universal we were saying last night is like, maybe he's licking their chops a little bit. At least when it comes to the movies because they're going to be like, we're going to have a lot of opportunities here. I think we agree that Donna Langley is the single, not the single most interesting because everybody's, everybody on the board is interesting. But I feel like anytime I talk to somebody about like what it's like to be out here and like how things are like studio people. There is a kind of like, I love Universal. I love the idea of universal.

What's going to happen to Universal. And I just feel like, I don't know what they're, I don't know what, I don't know how this looks to that company. I think it's probably very scary to have to compete if you're universal, which is also, you know, a broadband cable company to have to compete with a paramount megalith plus Netflix plus Amazon and Apple's unyielding financial power. However, they've done a really smart thing in the last 10 years by basically recentering to being like, we're a filmmaker studio. Right. We're the home of Jordan Peel and Christopher Nolan and Steve. Steven Spielberg, and we sign up A plus talent. That's what we do.

And we make cool movies. And we do okay. Yeah. We do really okay. Yeah. So in that respect, I think it's okay. For the broader, like, what does this mean for Peacock? I mean, Peacock was not in a good place before.

I can't imagine they're in a better place now. Yeah. I don't, I don't know. I just feel like this is really, really, really, really, really bad. And I would love somebody to say, Wesley. It's not that. No one has said that. No.

Nobody is saying that. No. Nobody is saying that. Nobody is saying that. Nobody is saying. That echoes what you're saying is just as movie people and as movie people who came of age when movies were still like the dominant American art form. And an art form that wasn't created here, but certainly, as you said, like the roots in how and what the U.S., the America is and how it's been expressed. and sold to the world are here.

And it just, the movies are no longer the center of culture. And they are no longer the way that we investigate ourselves, the way that they're not what people look to anymore. Yeah. And this feels like, well, but this feels like just a confirmation, like another, like a really big chip off the mountain just of what we had as a movie. going culture keeps going. And even the fact that the

details of these studios are sort of like a footnote in what's going to happen to Warner Brothers and what will happen to Paramount and how they will make movies. Like in the way that we're talking about? No, they're less important than what is going to happen to Batman. That's actually how this is being consumed.

Is that it's just kind of oh and you know, we'll figure out. Well, there's no like thought about the legacy of Warner Brothers going into this acquisition. It's about the legacy of what Warner Brothers has. I think. I mean, I think that's what's most valuable to David Ellison,

and also to Netflix. I think Netflix wanted it for that reason to kind of optimize the access to those worlds. What about the dangerous liaisons first? I mean, yeah, we can build that out. You want to expand that universe? That's a Warner Brothers property.

Cruel intentions five? Could be good. We're eight. I don't know how many cruel intentions there are. I'm going to pivot us to award season Because we could talk about Paramount for months and months, and we probably will. But if there is somebody out there who's got some good news with respect to all of this,

I would love to read that, hear from that person. We're not going to know, honestly, what it really means for 24 months. Because it's going to take a year to clear and then another year to greenlight a bunch of new movies that will be like, oh, this is what Paramount Warner Brothers is. That's a long time from now. Before we move on, I just, I guess I would. But the Beatles movies still won't be out. It'll still all happen before the four Beatles movies.

That's so crazy. Is it one? They're doing one a year? No. No, one a week. April 20, 28. We're just hanging on. Yeah.

Those will be our final episodes of this show. That's when Amanda and I, we moved to Hawaii after that. We're done. But those episodes will be 24 hours long. Each one. We've been preparing our whole lives. You guys are crazy. I am, I've got a lot of feelings about, I mean, like, knowing how you feel

I mean, you know, knowing... About the Beatles? Yes. Yeah. It's a religion. I've got a lot of questions. We didn't even talk about Harris Dickinson last night, but that's a whole other... Was he there?

No, which is why... Which is why what? Which is why he didn't come up in the list of, you know... Men that Amanda wants to fuck. Yes. Excuse me. Quite like that. Amanda has an appreciation for.

I'm like immune. I'm like, I guess we differ in every way except for your husband. I know. But it's a lovely place where we need. Yeah, I just like, none of your men are my men. Yeah, it's true. Last night I spent a lot of time defending Jacob Lordy to you. Not defending.

Not defending. I understand it. It just nothing happens. Wait, but seriously, I, are you, you guys talk to filmmakers. I don't talk to filmmakers. Yes, you do. I mean, I don't. You do.

I don't. I've not talked to a real, I mean, I don't talk to the people. I don't talk to the people you talk to is what I would say. I think they're scared. They're scared. Of course. Yeah.

And are they? It's hard to get stuff made. It's harder than ever to get stuff made. And it's harder to get stuff made with big conglomerates. And when you go into those situations with fewer options, it's harder to make more money. It's harder to get something off the ground. I think it's interesting to look at what like James Mangold is somebody I think a lot about in this configuration, right? Like really like older craftsmen who has a ton of respect.

who has been an Academy Award nominated and he's like I really want to make a Star Wars movie you know and he's going to make a thriller with Timothy Shalamey but he's also working on a Star Wars movie and there's a certain class of person who's already like crossed the threshold of being able to work but they know that to keep working at scale

and to get their smaller movies made they really do got to participate in the big old franchise game and Paramount's going to up the ante on that stuff too so that'll be interesting now younger filmmakers it's fucking hard, man. Well, this was, you know, my little purity tests that I used to maintain are like,

not against the filmmakers, but against the industry, insisting that like, you know, the trade, Edward Schultes of the world can't go into the tractor beam because look at what they have

to offer the world. Yeah. Like, or, you know, they can go to TV. I mean, and I think a lot of Eggers. I mean, there's so many. But that is already contract.

And we'll contract. It is. I think Eggers is a really good case for the future might be okay. I think he is using IP, but he's using it very thoughtfully. He's doing smart things with it. I just worry. I mean, I think, I mean, I remember thinking like, like, Chloe Zhao, the first thing she does after she wins her Academy Award for Best Director. Isn't it make the marvel?

It is. Eternals, yeah. Eternals, sorry. I just was like Well, here we have it But I think I have to stop with that Because it's not fair To the environment for these people

I'm not letting the industry off the hook But people have to eat She did the same yeah People have things they want to say Yeah And I can't It's really none of my business What the artists choose to do

I would just say That if given the option of doing 10 more nomad lands and 10 more hamlets if you're if you're Chloe. I don't, I can't think for her, but I don't know if, I mean, having seen the Eternals and having seen the other movies, I'm convinced that one thing is a better use of her than the other thing. I think I agree.

I don't know. I don't, like, she feel free to disagree. but I do think that having these artists make these choices and have the choice be a question of like well it's like either I'm working

or I'm not working and at what point do my principles because also the bigger these companies get the more politics becomes an issue right? This is a whole other rabbit hole yeah and you're then making a whole other series of choices

about like what is the character of their films. What is the messaging, for lack of a better term? Who gets to work? Who gets to work? I mean, what does it look like to let Jordan Peel makeup movie? I mean, we know he's fine at Universal. But like, let's just say. There's a long term impact. Guess what the pipeline's going to look like for non-straight white men to make anything.

We're going to find out. If there's somebody in the company who's just like, Nope. D-E-I. D-E-I. You know, I don't know what that looks like. I think, I do think... I mean, I do know what it looks like, and it's grim. I do think historically in this business, money wins. There does have... They do have to lift the gates sometimes,

but they're not going to not hire somebody if they think they can make them money while being controlled by them. So that will be a component of this decision making. I don't know, man. Like, can you be a five-star general? Is that an option? I just think a lot about Lloyd Austin getting fire.

The minute they came back into office, Lloyd Austin was one of the first Negroes to lose his job. And this is a highly decorated person who was running the Department of Defense. Or not even, he was a joint chiefs, I think. And just see him. We don't need you. This is like, I'm just,

Also, we don't need you because once you made a video where you were just like, yeah, it is hard to be a Negro in the American military. And I have a lot of historical, I bring a lot of history with me to this job, and I'm watching what's happening in the streets right now, and it's making me sad. That was enough. You know, I just feel like, you know, I never going to start talking about awards. I just feel like, like, it's interesting to have one battle after another and sinners be at the top of that conversation

and the lesson And be Warner Brothers movies What are the lessons That are going to be learned I think a lot of people Are seeing this news And even this award season As like a kind of a Viking funeral

That this is like a send-off Of an era I don't know if that's going to turn Ones to be the case You know The Odyssey is going to kick ass Like it's not like movies are going away forever Like it's going to be fine

In that very specific short-term respect But yeah But for 10 people What does newness look like? Also yeah It's Christopher Nolan doing the oldest story ever told?

Yeah, that's movies. Story by Christopher Nolan and Homer. Does it say that? Is that the credit? The IMDB credit page was that for a while. Yeah, I don't mean, which is, let's Actually, I respect it. I deserve to stand alongside Homer. But yeah. Okay.

There were a number of precursor award shows over the weekend. The first was the Ace Eddie Awards. That's the editing group. They gave best edited feature film drama to sinners and best edited feature film comedy to one battle after another, much like the Golden Globes that tells us nothing.

Also, they're breaking it down like that too. I don't understand what, I mean, I guess there are different editing rhythms to those different genres that are worth noting, but I find splitting up Best Film Awards to be very strange. The Producers Guild Awards, of which I am a member and voted,

transpired on Saturday, and one battle after another, won the Darrell F. Zanick Award for Outstanding. producer of theatrical motion pictures. So just to give you guys some context, one battle after another, has now won the Critics' Choice Award,

the Golden Globe for musical or comedy, the BAFTA for Best Film. It won an Ace Award. It won the DGA for Paul Thomas Anderson. It won the Producers Guild Award. And it's probably going to win the WGA Award for Adapted Screenplay. That is the strongest best film package

in the history of the Academy Awards. Really? And yet. And yet. And yet. And yet we will get to. Sinners Has not won a single major

Best Picture Precursor No critics groups No CCA, no CLA, no Globes, no Bafta, no PGA Just Cinematic and Box Office Achievement at the Golden Globes However, here is one historical Data Point It has won

Sag Ensemble, which you will get to momentarily, it has won an Ace Award, and it is also almost certainly going to win the WGA Award for original screenplay. And no movie who's had those three awards has ever lost best picture. Oh my God. So we have... It's two undefeated.

Two trains. Yeah. On a track. Yeah. We can talk about what we think is going to happen there. It's very strange for a movie. It would be the biggest upset in Oscar's history

if Sinners wins. Like, Spotlight won the spirits and the LA Film Critics Circle, National Society of Film Critics. Moonlight won the Globes and all four major critics awards. Parasite won the Palm Door and major critics' groups. Talk to me about Kota. Talk to me about Kota.

Kota won... Something at Sundance. It won... Like many years before. Yeah, and Troy Kotzer won as well. At SAG. What awards did Kota win? Let's take a quick...

I'm just saying, like, Kota is my favorite best picture win story of all time. Yes, and Koda was a late surger, for sure. Well, we know what happened. I mean, we've discussed this before. I love this. I love that it happened, because it's such a, this is what y'all all get. Now, I like Cota a lot.

Cota won the Spirit Awards. Oh, no, sorry, it did not. That was Troy Cotson. I don't think it even won that. It won, this is a really good question. Oh, Cota won PGA. Oh, did it? Okay. But because you know what happened.

When Cota won PGA, that's when everybody was like, oh, actually, it's Cota. It's definitely not power of the dog. But I, but have I told this story to level? I've had talked to you about this before. Like, I feel maybe I've talked to Bill about it. Like, I just remember, maybe I just texted somebody after this happened. But, like, you know, I washed it at home like everybody else.

And the minute they get to the audition for Berkeley. I mean, I'm... When she sings both sides now? I'm crying. Yeah. Who's not crying? It's incredible. I'm crying.

And I said, this is. This isn't fair. This isn't fair because if this is happening to me and my living room, it's happening to everybody else in their living room. And it is, I watched it during open while the ballots were still open. And I'm like, there's no way. I'm not in, you know, I don't vote for anything. But like, there's no way if I'm an academy voter that my ballot is sitting here

on, unsent. Mm-hmm. And I'm not like, ding. Well, so I think that's very... Putting it first. I think that's very notable and resonant in this particular race because the conversations that we were having were like, The Power of the Dog is a very well-made film

by a hugely admired filmmaker who had not won in that category before. And nobody I knew liked one second of watching. And Coda is from a filmmaker we've never heard of. There was an Apple movie that premiered at Sundance, but everybody was like, that movie makes me feel good. Yep. And sometimes a movie that makes people feel good,

just wins. And this year, I think it's sinners. And it was a time that we wanted to feel good. I think Sinners is the movie that people are like, this movie makes me feel good. Now, that doesn't mean it's going to win. Those movies don't always win. I do think, I think Sinners does make people feel good or at least excited. And we've seen that at every single awards show that we've watched or attended. Like, there's a Coogler Hive. I'm a proud member. You know, I had to get involved with that. And what does me, what do you mean get involved? That's a quote from when he was on Amy Polar and talking about discovering the soda machines at the movie theater. You could mix the flavors.

He was like, I was not written. I didn't used to be a soda guy. And then I saw you could mix the flavors and I had to get involved with that. All I want is Ryan Googler starring and curb your, curb some more enthusiasm. Exactly. Totally. So there is there's like a huge, huge, huge, huge amount of enthusiasm for that movie. But I don't think that one battle has the same problems that power of the dog has.

And in fact, there is. As Bill Simmons famously once called it, the power of the nap. No, there is like an equally passionate a group of people who love not just PTA but this film. And we're like really energized by it. You've seen it how many times now? Seven. Yeah. Seven times on the big screen.

I thought four was a lot. Right. So I think it's, you're right that there is some like emotional pull. to sinners, and I think that that really could push a lot of voters this way. But it's not like replacing, you know, a lack of enthusiasm on the other side, the way that Cota was. Can I present something here? It's Sunday on the West Coast at 9 o'clock p.m. on the 15th. Mm-hmm.

And sinners is just one best picture. Mm-hmm. What is... How do I put this? What does it look like for one battle after another to have lost the best picture, Oscar? Like... For whom?

Because... Like, is it a culture war? Is that what you're asking? No. God. Oh, my God. I didn't even consider that. I think there would be ugly.

ugly takes in the aftermath. In either direction. In either direction. There we are. People got to stop. Wait, is this a thing? These movies are being pitted against each other? Well, they're just the two leading contenders.

So I think they're both beloved. However, they both have strong detractors. Yeah. Like any favorite. I am, I'm going to talk to one of my favorite people who is a vociferous detractor for one battle after another. But I think that the, I mean, the wonderful thing about these two, movies being at the top of the pile is they are speaking to each other.

Yeah. Like, these movies are one of the great best picture double features ever. Totally great. We've been saying it for months. And they don't like, it's, I mean, one can definitely exist without the other, but the fact that they both exist together to me. It makes me feel like we're in the 70s where you'd be like, gosh, I don't even know what to pick.

Yeah. You know, I don't know. That was a fun time. I mean, I think part of what I'm wondering here is, like, I know there's a world. where it's like sinners loses and it's like sinners had a great, it was, sinners did the most. It had the greatish run. Everybody loved it.

It had the most nominations. But I feel like it had one battle after another lose. It's just going to be another one of these, well, gosh, Paul Thomas Anderson. Just can't get it over the line, Kenny. But then he, I think if that happens, then he goes, because this is his best chance, right? This is,

he'll never have a better chance than this. This is the biggest movie he's ever made. It is the most success. The, the, the run of precursors is crazy town. I mean, it's been dominant. You've been saying it ever since, way before the Academy Award nominations, you were like,

this gets decided very early. A movie usually goes on a crazy run. This movie has done that as strong, pretty much as strongly as Oppenheimer. If he doesn't win, he immediately goes into... What? Better than Oppenheimer. I agree.

Okay. Like... I agree, too, but that's fine. Not even close. I think he immediately becomes... It's like Kubrick. Hitchcock. I'm sorry.

There's that short list of master filmmakers, geniuses of their era, who don't win. And he goes into that canon. And then maybe he wins for some other movie he makes when he's 76 or whatever. I don't know. Here's the thing.

I do think that Paul Thomas Anderson has a lot for director. He is. So that is interesting. And you see in the Coda Power of the Doggy era, there was a split. Jane Campion did when director. I don't like this either though

You don't like the split? No. Well then why give out a best director award at all? No, no, I don't like the history of the split. Okay. Because it, it now, now we're at a point of like elite, elite Hollywood politics, although like we can talk about what Hollywood politics even means with this academy now. But we're at a point with the politics of this show and this award where we don't have a black director who's won this prize yet.

Do not. No. And I don't like the idea of best picture being a consolation prize because... Is it a consolation prize? I feel like director is a consolation prize. I feel like it's just happened. Steve McQueen? Sure.

Barry Jenkins. Yes. I don't enjoy this, right? Where I just like, let a brother win best director. I don't know. And you know what's funny. You know what's funny? I'm saying this,

and it's completely untethered to an argument about the directing of both these movies. I think every time I watch sinners, I'm just like, wow. Yeah. I know. We talked about this last week. I mean, Paul Thomas Anderson,

like, it's very, very hard because somebody's got to not win. And however, This is unusual. And I want to talk about the actor awards because they're related to this. But, you know, in all likelihood, they could both get two.

They could both get two. Oh, the screenwriting. They're both going to get screenplay. Sure, sure. And PTA is almost certainly going to win director. He won at DGA's. And then if picture goes to sinners, then Ryan gets one too, and then it's two to two.

And then that would be the most harmonious balance that I think that the academy could land on. have punched it out so many. These guys have... I still think one battle is going to win. It's hard to not assume one battle is going to win. It's like... Oh yeah, and they're buddies.

I don't... I mean, I don't like... I don't even like the idea of... Again, like, I don't believe these two movies are in opposition to each other in any other way except this... The artificiality of this event. So the thing that happened...

Let's talk about the actors in full. Ciners did win ensemble, which was predicted and I think follows frankly, the actor awards, the SAG Ensemble Award, is a much more generous award to black films and black actors than the Academy Awards are. Recent winners include Black Panther, Ryan Cougler's film, Hidden Figures.

You know, it also does not... I forgot Hidden Figures. It does not really correlate typically with Best Picture. Last year, you may recall Conclave won Best Ensemble, not Anora, despite Anora having a dominant Oscar night. Yeah, but I think those people are voting for the right reasons, right? Like I feel like that ensemble, in most cases, I understand. I under these are people who, I mean, you guys told me who all is in SAG after last night.

Yes, it is actors, but it is also radio and television broadcasters and weathermen and influencers. But to be clear, not the three people sitting at this table. That's true. Not neither. Not a motion. However, I will say, I think less than 5% of the membership of SAG votes for the Academy Awards. Right. Like it's a small number of people.

So be careful in terms of trying to make. Right. I never, I'm not, I have no correlation to make. I just want to say they understand what an ensemble is generally. They really do understand what it on, even even in the nominating, you know, what it turns out to be. I think one battle after another is the best casting directed movie of the year of last year. But obviously, sinners just for Miles Caten alone is an achievement. Yeah.

you know, Secret Agent wasn't part of the situation at the SAG Awards. None of the international features were. But also like just one of the great cast movies of, great casted movies of 2025. It's a funky award. I always point to 2020 as this award being maybe not as relevant. Do you remember which movie won in 2020 for Best Ensemble? For the films of 2020? Yes.

So not because Parasite won in February. Okay. So 2021. This is a great. But not a footnote. Wasn't... What movies came out in 20? So not Nomadland.

Not Nomadland. Obviously an outlier year for the Academy Awards given the number of releases, but think hard. Hillbilly elegy. No. The answer is the trial of the Chicago 7. Oh, sure. Another Netflix movie. But again.

Nomadland not even nominated in the category. That's a well-cast movie, though. Nomadland? Yeah. Similar, actually, to one battle after another with a lot of non-prudelands. professional actors. I mean, I don't love that movie, but casting-wise, I'm not arguing with it. Anyway.

But I get the, I mean, listen, listen, trial of Chicago seven. Your favorite film of that year. That's a movie that happened. An astounding achievement that we will forever remember. Are they sure they weren't? I mean, I'm sure most of people thought they picked up their Emmy ballot. Yeah. Big time HBO original movie vibes with that one.

So Seners Wins Ensemble, and the reason that I got. I'll excited to talk to you about this is that the biggest surprise of the knife and the best moment of the night, in my opinion, was Michael B. Jordan winning best actor for sinners, which I would never in a million years have predicted. Some people have predicted it.

I got to give it up to Clayton Davis from Variety. He has been holding the line on this and he hard predicted this last night. He must have blown out of his house. Yes, and he has been holding on sinners winning best picture. He had ensemble. He has been saying, this is going to happen. Now, we've been talking Timothy Shalame in this race for many, many months.

He showed weakness at Bafto and Robert Aramaya won. He showed weakness. He bent the knee to the film, I swear. And now I feel like his odds are going to plummet, obviously, not winning SAG. He won SAG last year, and no one has ever won SAG two years in a row. That has also been noted quite a bit, yes. So maybe they were just trying to pivot. They said we gave it to him last year.

Who knows? Could Michael B. Jordan win best actor at the Academy Awards? You actually right before the award was announced, you turned to us and you were like, I feel like people are not saying he's really fucking good in this movie. I had to say it to myself. I had to remind myself. I'm like writing something about how easy it has been to sleep on him. Well, he made it easy.

He has made it easy. But I think that there is something about the, He's talked about Ryan Coogler in his speech last night in a way that was so not we're homies and friends. It was, oh my God, I might start crying. It's like you see something in me. Thank you for seeing like what my talent can do. Like that's not a like, yo man, I've been telling you for years,

we got this on lock. You and I, we keep doing it together. I'm picking up this penisless trophy. But. Amy Madigan. We'll get to her. It doesn't have a dick. She is like that is like real statue

Criticism 101. Do most statues have dicks? That's the problem. Statuettes. Most statues do. Yes, they do. Sure. He does.

But Oscar doesn't. That et is doing a lot of work. Don't, whatever, don't even get me started about emasculating statues. But what he, the way he talked about Coogler was so like genuine. And it was almost a. though like Scorsese had given him the part or you know

Spike Lee giving him the job He tapped him on his shoulder at an early state At a pivotal stage of his career with Fruitvale Where he was like coming out of the wire And Friday Night Lights and he Cast him in his debut feature And now they work together on every movie Right

And they are they are Scorsese and De Niro I mean that is what they're doing And they do also I mean he's right Respect to Michael B. Jordan for understanding that like Coogler like understands and helps him do something that he's writing with MBJ in mind he does not that that emmyj doesn't always find in his other performances and his other films but if you watch the I mean if you I don't know I I now have recently watched it

watching only what he's doing and I guess it's easy to miss for a number of reasons and I don't know if this I mean we can talk about this later but like not the greatest line reader no Not the most emotionally variant. He's a stern-jawed leading man. He doesn't have whatever range is. That's not his thing. But Coogler understands that there's this inner fire in this man. And I don't know how he directs actors or Michael B. Jordan, for that matter.

but there's something about this gauge that he has, that he, only in his movies, does that temperature fluctuate in a way that transmits emotion to an audience? I always think of it the way that watch a movie, watch a Tarantino movie with Samuel L. Jackson or Christoph Waltz. Tarantino knows how to write for those actors better than anyone. And you see Christoph Waltz and Frankenstein and you're like,

why is this not interesting? Why is this annoying? And you watch him in one of the Tarantino movies and you're like, why is this the best actor on earth? And same for Sam Jackson. Sam Jackson reading Tarantino lines. And I feel that Kugler really, really knows how to write for MBJ and that is why he is literally his top five performances are just in Kugler movies.

And that's great. And they should be rewarded for that. I mean, you could say the same for De Niro, that he is frequently doing his best work when he's working with the person who understands him the best as an actor. I just was very moved by how moved and touched he was and to remember that like there's a world where I am, all I'm doing is selling Alexa in a bathtub.

Yeah. And having that be the most important work I've ever done. Because listen, that was important work. Do you think he can win? I really have no idea. I really. You said Wagner Morrow could win. I think he can.

Certainly, I think your interpretation that like Timmy's kind of kind of out is, and I think that was really confirmed at Bafta's because. But talk to me about that. What is, what are we really saying when we say that? He's lost the momentum and voting is open right now. And there has always been a pretty loud resistance to it. Not for me. To him.

He hasn't given a speech in weeks. To him and to. That's just the best way to put it. Right. And the, and. Jesus Christ. The reason that I had written Wagner Mora off, which I think like January 8th after the Golden Globes, I was like, it's Wagner Mora. It is like this is happening.

Never underestimate Brazil, Leslie. No. You out here like, I'm like, they speak Spanish. I don't. I've never. Right. No. Yeah.

But so Wagner Mora also has just not given a speech since the Golden Globes. You know, and that's because. But he gave a speech. beach. He got to give one. He did. But I think it's just, at this point, it is a little bit who's in front of people's eyes right now. It's just very confusing because Wagner Moore to me would be a very representative new academy win, right? It's a movie that made it into Best Picture. It's a movie that has a tremendous amount of admiration. It's a Cannes film. He won Best Actor at Cannes. He won the Golden Globe. But then he didn't even make the shortlist for Bafta, and he didn't get nominated

at SAG. They released a shortlist. list? They do. Yeah. I don't know how I missed that. BFTA is crazy. I'm sorry. Yeah.

Did y'all see what happened during the broadcast? We did. Did we need to know that happened? Was it two hour delay? And we still found out? And they edited other things out? I mean, come. I mean.

Very strange award show. Honestly, we've always had a little bit of a critical distance from on this show. We've been criticized for not engaging with it and there's a reason why we don't love engaging with it. They've always made. some bath-dalling choices. I just don't understand. I don't know.

The Aramaya win, though, in that category, I think, is really what throws this into a sense of disrepair. Like, I don't, and you know what? Honestly, fucking A. This is so great. It makes it fun. For such a big award to be, like, the coin is in the air until March 15th is so fun. Yeah.

I don't know. I honestly don't know what I'm going to predict. The reaction in the room was electric. I mean, first of all, so, Viola Davis was presenting. And she couldn't, I mean, I love it. It was great. It was wonderful. She, like, she had her moment.

Already some great memes of her reacting. Yeah, totally. You asked me what she was up to, and it's like Delta and now memes. But, and everyone was so excited. And I think a little bit of it was the excitement of surprise. And then, and if you watch the reactions, which I have many times, Jesse Plybens, immediately very excited. Ethan Hawke immediately very excited.

immediately very excited to me putting on his vest. I'm happy for him's face. Leo, not there. Not there. He's making a movie. He's with Martin Scorsese. This is really fascinating. Great speech, by the way.

Great speech. Amazing. Also taking his mom for like finding parking. Yeah, it was so lovely. Very good. Really, really, really like a rare like awards moment, a lot of worship moment where you're like, this is what, this is what, it can be good. This can be good.

And also after much. debate over the course of the night. We decided it was a good suit. We liked the suit. Tom Ford. No, I didn't change my mind about that. No, you said good suit. But the pants were Yeah, listen. There is a problem with men's tailoring. There was, there was some angle issues as well. And there were some angle issues. There were some camera issues. The whole show was a little complicated for the actors. I mean, like, can we just like, yeah, yeah, boys and girls. No one can see this. Can I want to stand up on the same? Like, I will take my shoes off because I'm in New York. Like, you can't, nobody wants to see this.

This is why we flew you out. Nobody wants to see this. If, I mean, you gotta just take it in a little bit more so nobody can see your inner scene. I agree with this. I agree with you. Yes. Like, you gotta just cinch it.

Yes. Also, two breaks. You don't need two breaks. You don't need two breaks. You don't need to. Especially if you've got a wide, wide. leg? No.

What are we doing, people? The breaks were such a problem across the board that I did think... I lost control. I did think some of it had to do. So all of the feature films, the ensembles were presented by, you know, a group of cast members. And just a very strange below the stage upward angle, which helps no one. Like, why are we doing this? I can't tell if that really is the issue here.

But it did accentuate the brakes. like the breaks were sort of were greenlanded if you will within the frame but this now means that these stylists have a new job well they've never been able to get men's tailors hey Jacob stand on this box

and I'm gonna get down all the way down here with my camera and I'm gonna see like is this button rooishing up on your on your double-breasted jacket I don't know amazing physical performance for you today so far.

I just don't know. It just really, Del Rory Lindo knows how to wear a tuxedo and knows what notes to offer. I don't know who dressing him. But he was also just wearing a much more classical tuxedo. I know. And taller, he is taller. He is taller.

He is a factor too. He was the tallest guy on stage. Jacob Allerty is like nine feet tall. Well, I think Jacob Allerty might honestly be too tall, you know? He's like beyond sample size on the other way. I'm stunned to hear you say that. Not for me. But in terms of.

of, in terms of the, listen, men are finally learning what it is to get dressed and the sample sizes are made for one exact body type that is like basically yours, which is really annoying. And if you're not sample size, they don't know. It takes a lot of extra effort. We were joking last night that I can usually pull off off the rack and in a way that is very satisfying for me. And we hate you. I had impulse ordered so much this morning from the real real because of, because you've changed your

plans for Oscar night. It's okay. Well, we'll see. It's not, no guarantee that I'll be able to do that in time. No spoilers for our outfits for an Oscar night. I cannot wait. Thank you. I mean, I was already going to watch, but you sold the ticket. Quickly, precursors for Best Actor, Wagner Moore Globe, Shalameh, Chalamay Globe, Timothy Shalameh Critics Choice, Robert Aramio Bafta, Michael B. Jordan, Sagg. Just simply put, your prediction for the winner of Best Actor at the Oscars. Amanda and I will hold ours till next week when we predict. Oh my God, Michael B. George's going to win an Oscar. Oh, that's so nice.

That's great. I really think that could happen. And that is just crazy. I think Michael B. George's going to win an Oscar. He would be literally my fifth pick three months ago. Totally. I mean, if I'm voting, I don't know if I'm, I mean, although, you know, I've spent this time with this performance now and I'm just like, yeah. But listen, come on.

Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. No, but this has. I mean, listen. I am saying that there's a world in which he would win, and I am going to burst into tears. Because also young black men, right? I mean, just like, there's a lot of history that comes into these things at some point. And you just really, my historiometer starts going a little bit nuts. And I'm thinking, like, how old was Forrest Whitaker when he won?

How old was Jamie Fox when he won? How old was when Denzel? I mean, they're all around the same age. Denzel's the rare. He got one very early. Oh, wait. I'm sorry. I was thinking about Malcolm X, sorry. Yeah. For best actor. For best actor. For best actor. Just just those two guys. And Poitiers, Sydney Partier would have been 32.

They're all of like 35. I mean, Jordan is what, 35? Yeah. Yeah. They're all, Jamie Fox, Forrest Whitaker, Sidney Poitier. I think Forrest Whitaker was older. I think he was in his like mid-40s when he won for Last King of Skowland. Okay. We can look that up. That's probably true. probably true. And Mahershala for supporting he was in his 40s right when he won both of those. That's anybody can win. But it's more like best actor.

Because what, I mean, if Michael B. Jordan wins, where do we get? Four. Four black actors who've won best actors. Four black men who've won best actor. So that's... It could happen. It could not happen. It's five. I'll tell you what. For four winners. Right. I'm also not writing off Timothy Shelby. No. But

well, can you talk to me about the resist? Is there resistance to this movie? I don't think, well, you know, one, the movie. Not in this seat. We both love the movie. You like the movie, too. Yeah, I really love it. I think one, the movie had a smear campaign against it.

Obviously, there was a dramatic story written about the safeties that I think has definitely influenced the campaign somewhat. I think also more specifically in this case. But more specifically, I think it's the whiplash of the Timothy Shalamee campaigning for the movie's box office success. Right. and the swaggery style that he was bringing to that campaign to the pivot to I am awards campaigning. And now I'm going to say it, Sean. I was black over here and I'm white over here.

And I apologize everybody. But now... If I were him, I would not have done anything different. He made that movie a massive success. We were talking about it last night. This was the final step in him elevating himself over basically all of his peers as the standalone movie star of his generation.

and it worked for the movie. He may be paying the price for it right now. There is also just a little bit of the, I don't like this character. I don't endorse this like characters. It's very strong. It's very strong. And how those things overlap

and then how someone walks out of a movie and what their review is. And I think, you know, we three, well, I won't speak for you. I don't endorse many of this person's actions. But I'm also taken in by hip, you know, like understand it. Yeah, yeah. Well, no, Marty, the character.

Oh, oh, oh, no, he's an asshole. Yeah, of course he's an asshole. There's no, there's no, that's, I mean, I don't know. Also, I'm breathing air. Yeah. Like, I feel like, but there are many people who walked out of that movie. And I found younger viewers were like, yeah, no, like, I don't want to spend time with this person.

I don't like him. Yeah. And so I think that sometimes when people are voting the same way they vote for Coda, because like, that made me feel something. maybe this, I don't know, I can't really deal with it. But isn't this, isn't this, I can deal with this. Like an aspect of the difference between the academy in like 1994 and the academy now, which is like in 1994, Timothy Shalame might not have even gotten nominated.

Right. Because the performance was so difficult. And, or the character is so difficult. The performance is great. versus now where you've got on, you know, in 94, the Academy would have been much more like American-born versus now we're like, you know, what did you say?

It's 6040? Non-American, American? Oh, in the Academy. Yeah, it's in that range, yeah. I just feel like other people's cinemas have a much higher tolerance for the, for the Marty, for the Marty Mousers of the world. So I don't know. I just feel like, everybody else is not as like

four is a Thursday. That's what I was going to say is the same case that you can make for Wagner Mora is the case you can make for Shalda. Right. Which is like this is a movie that the international voters are not going to be like oh this isn't for me. You know it's not. That being said it is a very American story. Also a Nora won last year? I don't know. I feel like I feel like he's still likely to win but there's something

about there was something about I know that you're also it's important to remember what you've already said, which is it like, what is it? You said 1% overlap? I don't know what the total number is, but I think it's less than 5% of SAG is, of Academy voting members.

But I do, for whatever, to the extent that like whoever was aware of what happened last night and got to watch it and hear what happened in the room, wouldn't you love, wouldn't you love a little bit of that? Yeah.

I think that was a big moment for the race, and voting is open until Friday. Yeah. It just felt like, I mean, again, every time, I don't know what is going on with me, Michael B. Jordan right now, but like, just like, he's making me cry. Like, I just feel like, and sometimes,

you know the other thing about him as an actor is, he's so recessive, right? There are, there are so many movies you watch him in and you're like, come on, buddy. Well, he, yeah. Give it to me. But as a star, though, as a star, he does remind me a little bit of Leo insofar as he's like, kind of,

of the limelight doesn't really do a lot, doesn't give a ton of interviews, kind of just like sticks to his projects and does his thing. He's not like a massive celebrity in the same way that somebody like Chalame right now feels like a force of nature culturally. Right, right. And there is a distinction there. And I wonder if maybe there's something considered like more honorable about that for MBJ. I also think like there's, I think one thing that might be working against him here is he is still pound for pound a bigger star than Timothy Shaliman. You know what I mean?

He's been a part of more bigger movies, yes. Right. And some of those movies people went to because he was in. It's close. The Dune movies kind of leveled the playing field there. I'm not, I retract that statement. But I mean, he is at least

in arguably a movie star, right? Totally. And the thing about, the thing that was so exciting about Sinners was, you know, I mean, when Van and Bill and I talked about that show on the rewatchables, the question, the who won the movie question. Like, hands down, who won the movie was Ryan Cooke.

Yeah. The reason I went back to the performance was, I wanted to know what I had missed. I do the acting thing I do every year. I'd, like, find a bunch of things I like about performances. I didn't include him in it. And I just was like, I'm very curious.

to see what is. Once he got nominated, I was like, okay, I really, I just want to see what I missed. Not because the academy was right,

but just because I was so happy for him. And... Well, there's something off the bat, which is that he's playing twins. And so that is he's giving two performances. But there's the accent. Mm-hmm. The twins are,

as it turns out, not as mutually discernible as maybe a different actor would have made them. I agree, but I do think he is putting a character in both of those men that you can tell in the performance. What I was about to say is... Vocal intonation, the posture, like, they're different. They are different, but it is so subtle, but it is so satisfying to leave that movie and be able to tell smoke from Stack because Michael B. Jordan figured out what the difference was between these two guys. I agree. And I think a win like this kind of like pulls out that conversation.

It lets you say like, okay, what is good about this performance? And then actually talk about it in a nuts and bolts way that I think is interesting. And we'll see what happens. If you're going with MBJ, male actor in a supporting role. Sean Penn won again. He did not show up again. Where did this come from? It's Los Angeles.

It's a weird town. I've been telling you. I mean, of all the things you, where are your, I mean, look, this is a great performance. But let's just talk about that. Like, I don't know. It just I agree with you. Of these five guys.

So your least favorite? No. I'm sitting here being like Actually, you know what? But I mean... At Sag it was Benicio, Jacob Allorty, Miles Caden and Delroy Lindo were the other nominees. Sean Penwin of BAFTA, everybody was like,

oh my goodness. And now this feels like confirmation that he's going to win. However... Still in Scarsgar. Yeah, he's... Still in the next. There's no way he's losing this Oscar. I do think.

think that Sean Penn is basically trying to throw it. He already has two. He is not going to any events that he doesn't have to. He did not give a speech last night. He did not give a speech at Bafta. Was he there last night? He was not there. He was at the Golden Globes.

He was the only winner who did not give a speech. He was at the Golden Globes, but he didn't win. And this has been a weird race, too. Scars Guard won the Globe and the LA Film Critics Circle. Lordy won the CCAs. Benicio won the New York Film Critics Circle. Delroy Lindo hasn't won any. but he did give the last speech of the night

last night for Best Ensemble. I was just about to say, yeah. And he's nominated and he's the kind of person who wins Surprise Academy Awards. Well, can I tell you my crazy Yeah, like I'm going to have... Let's sit forward. Sorry. Lean in. I'm usually going to, I usually have an Oscar dream. Mm-hmm. Oh, okay. Like a dream the night before or one that you hold on to for months. Like a couple nights before the Oscars. I have a dream. They never come true.

Hmm. I had a dream that Sean Penn was going to get nominated for something that he didn't get nominated for, like, this is like a weird. It was like, I'm not rooting for Sean Pennish because it was a dream. Oh, Carlito's Way. This is, like, when I was, I had a Carlito's Way dream and it didn't happen. Yeah.

I think there's a world. Because you, I mean, it's worth remembering that Sinners has, is it, how many 14? 16 nominations? I just think there's a world we're like. There's a world where, like, there's a world where, kind of wins many of them. We said we're going to know

probably pretty early in the night if there's a weird sinners wins nine Academy Awards thing happening because one me, Masako could win. Yep, yep. And that could still happen. And that could still happen.

And if Delroy Lindo wins, then I'm going to be like, this is happening. Yeah. That will show an incredible sign of strength. I don't think that's going to happen. I don't, I don't think. I think Sean Hed and Scarsguard are stronger in this race significantly personally.

Being prepared for the possibility that everything just gets thrown out the window. Yeah. With this movie. It's really funny that he just didn't go. Presumably just because he was like, I don't want to. Also, he'd never won SAG before, which is interesting. He's a two-time Academy Award winner who'd never won a SAG prize. Let's talk about female actor in a supporting role.

Amy Madigan won. Yes. And if Michael B. Jordan had not won, she easily would have given the best speech of the night. She was incredibly charming. It was a wonderful stage. She ran up to the stage doing the weapons kids' arms. Yes. So this is amazing.

She was the one who remarked upon the statuette and the way that it's anatomy and its relationship to Ken when she was playing with her Barbies as a kid. She's just bringing a lot of like Chicago gal born in the 20th century, you know? Like really talked a lot about her union and what SAG means to her and her being a union person. And she's a, she's very. similar to Delroy Lindo, you know? Yeah. Just like in the fabric of Hollywood. A person who's been around for a long time and has never won anything.

Yes. And everybody likes her and everybody thinks she's good at what she does. Yeah. And she's been given a very showy part and a villain. And villains win a lot in supporting categories. And she's a really great villain. That's a very memorable character. I just, you know, part of me is just mad that Austin Abrams will get to him.

Completely overshadowed by how good she is in this movie. He will be the star of Zach Rackers next movie, the Resident Evil movie, Austin Abrams. Oh, really? Yeah. Okay. Anyway, I, I'm happy for her. I think this race is still a crapshoot. I do as well.

I think she's too, and I think she's too American. I don't think the international voters care about Field of Dreams. Well, you know, here's a... I really don't. Like, that's... Because when you see her, don't you see her giving the speech at the PTA meeting? I still do. Oh, that's the funny thing that you think about.

You know, I've been like keeping... Oh, here's a great little... Is it about Catcher in the Rye? What is it? What is the book that she's talking about that's being banned? I think it's catching on the ride. Those for the days. I know.

I'm keeping track of people who slide in movies. Movie slide. What do you mean by that? Like, there's a moment where she comes out of that, that hearing and filled a dreams or that, you know, that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That I don't even know what's happening there. It's like a very clear memory of her, like,

blasting out of that door and sliding across the hallway. I'm like, Amy Madigan, I am proud to say you've made the sliding in motion pictures list. So anybody who's got some slides, all the obvious people have been accounted for, but just if you've got some like side door sliders, let me know. That's a good one. Interesting data point. If Amy Madigan wins, she would become the ninth person to win best supporting actress as her film's sole nomination. Can you think of anyone, Amanda's looking at the list, can you think of anyone for whom that applies?

this goes back to 1941. Nine times this has happened. Miris Rivino? No. Was he nominated for screenplay? I think screenplay was nominated, yes, for Mighty F for 90. This is for the winner, right? For the winner.

Oh, man, I love this question. These are great games. Yeah. This is my calling. You got to stop putting it in the dock so that I can play along. I know, I know. I know. Hold on.

I gave you the trial of Chicago 7-1. That was a good trivia question. Yeah. You're going to get 10 seconds here for the second. take a podcasting. Oh, no, that's wrong too. There's one very, very famous one in the last 30 years. Wait, did you just

he? He said Marissa Tomei, didn't he? No, he didn't. Oh, he didn't? Oh, sorry. What did you say? That's a great one. I don't even know what I said, but it was wrong. He said Mirisorino. Oh, Mirisorvino. A different Italian-American actress. Yeah, I just apologize. Mercer Tomey is great. Okay, give me a year.

I'll give you a recent one. 2008. This one's funny. Same filmmaker as Mighty Aphrodite. Penelope Cruz? Correct. Yeah. Huh. Okay.

For Vicki Christina Barcelona. Okay. In order. In history. Mary Aster won in 41 for The Great Lie. Claire Trevor won for Key Largo in 1948. That's the only nomination that Key Largo got. That was my thought, too.

That was how heavy the hitters were. Yes. Margaret Rutherford won for the VIPs in 63, a Burton and Taylor joint. It's a very bad movie. Goldie Hawn, one for cactus flowers. Gene Sacks's adaptation of Neil Simon's Cactus flower. Linda Hunt, one of the year of Living Dangerously. Wait, that was the only nomination for the movie, because I thought about her.

Okay. I did not know that that was the only nomination. Merse Tomey. Okay. And Angelina Jolie for Girl Interrupted. And then Penelope Cruz, of course, in 2008. So anyway, this doesn't happen that often. It's extremely unusual, but it does have, it does have some precedent if she does win.

Wouldn't Miumisaku? Still feel like that's in play. Also, Inga, Ibs, Daug, Lilias, and. Your girl Rachel Kemp, aka L. Fanning, were not nominated at SAG. So they are also in the mix here. This is a very... And Tiana Taylor was the prohibitive favorite for a couple of months. Wait, I'm sorry.

Hold the phone. We just wasted all this time doing this speculating. We've not just said Tiana Taylor's probably going to win. I don't know. She lost BAFTA and she lost this, right? Yeah, but they don't understand what this is. They don't know. But the Academy is more international.

Look, energy is energy. You know, these BAFTA. voters, they fake it. They left the racism in the show. They had a chance to take it out. Yeah. Like, nah. Tiana, I think Tiana's cool. Who do you think? Well, you know what? Don't, don't spoil your. Well, I don't have to decide yet. I have 10 days. I feel like, nine days. I feel like Tiana Taylor is going to win. And I mean, if she loses to Amy Madigan, I'll be, I'll be very fine with that. Okay. The last award that was not shown on the teleguess for some Godforsaken reason was a stunt ensemble and a motion picture, which went to Mission Impossible

The Final Reckoning, a good win. Good win. The stunt work in that movie is amazing. Who are the other nominees? I don't remember. Before we move on from the actor awards, I wanted to talk about Harrison Ford. Oh, yeah. Because Harrison Ford won the Lifetime Achievement Award last night.

Harrison Ford, a man who is extremely important to the three of us. And American movies. Yes. And movies. And America, to Wesley's point about what shapes America and how we see our I mean, think of it. Does this man have a career? The same career that gives him a lifetime achievement award? No. No. He does not. I don't know. I think of him in a similar way to the way that I think of Michael B. Jordan and that he was, he was always a very smart manager of

the kinds of parts that he took. Harrison Ford is the much better analogy for Michael B. Jordan They're very similar to me. Yes. You know, like Harrison Ford has limited range. It's Harrison Ford. He's a great star. He's a very good actor. And in the right hands, not a great line reader, but like with the right director, can Mike Nichols understood.

Like, Nichols was his cougler, to me. Wow, that's an interesting. I mean, you could make the case that George Lucas really understood Harrison Ford better than anybody and put him in a position to succeed more than anybody. But are those his best performances?

I just said, I just saw the last trilogy of Star Wars movies with my daughter over the weekend, and the performances he's giving in the Force Awakens and in the God forsaken the rise of, Skywalker are beautiful. And it's like, it's an actor who's really figured out

his instrument. That's a word that you hear all the time from actors, and he really has figured something out. Last night, I was, I had tears in my eyes watching him give a speech. We, you and I, the three of us are like, nattering through the whole show, shit chatting, we're pausing all the time. It took four hours to get through a two and a half hour show. When Harrison Ford took the stage after Woody Harrelson introduced him, I was just locked in by his gravitas. What did you say? Shouts to Woody Harrelson's

I don't know what that was a wedding toast of an introduction Yeah Well they were paired in a way You had the silliness And then Harrison For surprisingly emotional Speech

Yes he was in tears And talking not just about His career But also Like what acting can mean To the world And you know he talked about Like it didn't

It didn't happen for me right away. And yeah, I've appreciated the support of everyone in this room. It was really very lovely. A couple great jokes, including the kicker, which was, this is encouraging. He also said he was in the halfway point of his career. You know, so it's still like

self-aware in that kind of and gruff somehow. Like in a traditional Harrison Ford way while still being like way more sincere than I, you know, associate with his work generally. It was. No, I loved it.

And, you know, the funny thing about it, he's got one of those, you know, there's a kind of pitcher. I mean, even with the pitch clock now, there's a kind of pitcher who's still kind of like. Yeah. Yeah. The Steve Traxel. He was on his own pace. Did I get a text? It felt like sitting with your grandfather telling a long story.

But in a nice way. I love that. I love the silence. You know, there's these pauses where he's just kind of like. that was that was a good Harrison Ford that's how he is as an actor though too you know he really is he's not a fast-paced dialogue machine he's somebody who cuts

who leans into silences but this is the thing about him in the Star Wars movies which is it's the opposite it is right like he understands that he's also in a Howard Hawks movie yeah right that's true and the thing that's exciting about the transition temperate I would love to see if anybody wanted to make a movie anymore about things like this.

Like give Michael B. Jordan one of those rat a tat tat scripts and see if he could do it. Well, he's making the Thomas Crown Affair right now, which is not ratatat tat, that's like unbutton another button it could be. It could be. But I enjoy that

style of film. Who's the lady in that movie by the way? It was going to be Taylor Russell. And now is it Andrea Arana? And Adriah Arjona is the lead. Who's that? Very, very attractive.

You need to get involved with that. You know who she is. Oh, her. She's a little hit man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, I can see that. I can see that. She has a lot of strong qualities.

She does. She does. I can definitely, I buy that. I buy that. Okay. Yeah, Harrison Ford. We don't get Harrison Ford under this. And he doesn't have an Oscar.

He has one Oscar nomination for witness and that's it. And what the fuck? Well, I mean, okay, stop. What is missing from this? Because this is the thing about him and this is the thing about him and Michael B. George. There's only one other Harrison Ford performance I can think of that probably should have been nominated and I'm surprised that it wasn't. Because it was low-hanging fruit. It was the, it was that, it was that.

Mosquito Coast? No. But that's one that should have been nominated because it's very different for him, very different energy for him. Yeah, but it was too different. That is a more fast talking part. I can't say about the line readings in Mosquito Coast. Too fast. I like that. I think that's true to that character. That movie

tells us a lot about where we are in the world. Also, that was a hard year for a person like that to get in to the lineup. It was. Okay. So my case for this for mosquito Coast? No, no, no. It is very simple. That there was an opportunity to give him this win for Star Wars, the Force of

This is what I'm saying. This was the only other... This was the only other performance I can think of. Excuse me. Excuse me. They nominated every single actress and working girl. They can't find one supporting actor for your boy. That's fair.

That's also fair. I think there was some category confusion about whether... The Force of Weeks year, though. Where he went. This to me doesn't totally make sense. And maybe it's because he doesn't want a campaign or whatever, but Stallone was nominated for Creed that year. And it's the same performance.

I know. And Ford is better. Ford is better. Give it up. That is a thing. He's better. Of course, Mark Ryan Lance went on to win for Bridge of Spies, so it's moot. But if Harrison Ford was there and we looked at it and we were like, Harrison Ford is 74 years old,

are we really not going to give him an Academy Award before he dies? And now he's going to get some honorary award and it's going to be like whatever it is in the next five years. But it doesn't count. And I think you can go through the list. I think Working Girl is a good case. You know. Working Girl, it's just tricky. He falls between the cracks of the two categories, I think.

If it were 2026 and Blade Runner came out, he would have been nominated for Rick. Decker. That's, things are different now where movies like that get more respect than they got back then. And the fugitive. Oh, the fugitive. Oh, I forgot about the fugitive. That's crazy. All right, that's fine. But like, Tommy Lee Jones wins. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, 193. Remember, like, who all?

Daniel Day Lewis, Anthony Hopkins. Um, I think this is a good poll from you. Keep going. This is like, uh, who else? 93. Um, Daniel Day Lewis, Anthony Hopkins. Very famous win here. The first of. Tom Hanks. Tom Hanks for Philadelphia. That's Schindler's list.

Yes. Liam Neeson. And... Oh. L. L? It begins with an L? Yeah.

This is a good nomination. Lawrence Fishburn. Let's love that to do with it. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Okay. Obviously, Tom Hanks wins. So, yeah, he didn't get it. I mean, I kind of get that.

It's a tough battle. I kind of get that. It's a really tough battle. I understand. You know who I would take out out of that? Almost certainly six. Daniel Day Lewis. Yeah.

In the name of the father, I like it. Is my- Irishman myself? My friend Charlie used to say, The name of the follower! Okay. Shout out to Harrison Ford. You're the best.

Well, let's take a quick break, and then we're going to do the Alternative Academy Awards. This episode is brought to you by Warby Parker. Buying glasses can be so tricky. I myself, even though I'm not wearing them right now, am a glasses wearer. I have had to buy glasses many times in the past. What style do you choose?

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The Alternative Oscars. This is the sixth time that we've done this. You were not here last year. And that was just a painful. I was here. You were, thank you. Thank you for listening. The rules very quickly, there are not very many rules for this award show.

Although you did get new when I, something I hadn't considered before when I put some stuff in there. Okay. But you should say this because I think it's worth saying. No Oscar nominees are represented here. So if an actor or a writer or a director has been nominated for an Academy Award, they cannot be represented here. You're out.

There are six nominees per category as per, I guess, the Critics' Choice Awards. I don't know. It just makes it easier to say more names and celebrate more stuff. These are eight categories that we believe the Academy Awards should add, and then some of your classical categories that we will talk through. We used to do nine, and one of those was Best Casting. And the Academy Awards added Best Casting. And we're so, thank you very much, Academy Awards.

We also have Best Stunt in this award show And in two years I think it's two years The Academy will also add that You do have a nomination For a new addition to our Award Slate

So we'll talk about that And we get there Okay A little surprise A little Amanda surprise Okay How are you guys feeling You get

Do you feel ready for this? I feel great Yeah I feel great One thing that I Did we talked about last night is I try to not have too many

Oscar represented films throughout this list. Now, in some cases, it's hard because you feel like something got really snubbed. I usually try to use this as a rectifier, but that's probably the wrong way to be thinking.

No, I think a good balance between these movies never had a chance at an Oscar, and these movies were close, but they didn't quite make it, and so we're going to try to find a blend between the two. Did you enjoy this exercise this year,

both of you guys? Well, things are definitely changing. And you can see it just in terms of, like, once I got into the document, I was like, I don't have, I have very little to add that isn't like fun or surprising. I got a couple in there, but like very little because you guys covered it very well. But also just the diminishment of the pool, right? It's clearly, it's not quite everybody who should have been nominated, was nominated for an Academy Award.

But it's not so far away from that the way it wants. If we did this, you know what a great exercise would have been? or like can be done in the future. Let's just pretend it's like 1998. And then we play this game. What do you get with these categories? Now, would we have said here's what we think should have been nominated, including nominated films?

Let's just let's just what has not been nominated. And how would these categories fill out? And what would be in them? I felt like there was just a lot more worthy contenders. You would need to double it to feel. to feel good about yourself. Like, what are we even doing here? But this is like, I don't know.

I don't think anything's been left out. If we didn't, unless it was absolutely loathed by. Do you attribute that to the fact that the Oscars are getting closer to our taste or just that there are less good things? That's a great question. I think it's the Polish, we're talking about a quantity problem. there's less They're also I think that

you know I have deduced I don't know we've never talked about this and I've never heard you guys I don't I've never caught you guys saying this or thinking it through

you might also accept it as almost axiomatic at this point but but can is the most important film festival in the world right now it is

and so the alignment of that festival and the people who tend to, well, everybody goes, but in terms of like where that, where can is, a lot of that energy has sort of been drawn into the academy, right? I agree. So it isn't, it is the sort of the parameters of taste have changed for the voting body, or like its expression of its taste has changed.

But I also think that if we're talking about great movies, and I think now more than ever with the change in the Academy membership, like great movie making is maybe the most important. I know what you mean, and I think I agree with you. I think that it used to be. I think because the Hollywood slates have been hollowed out in terms of the kind of movies we historically define as Oscar movies. argument you can make to the contrary.

But we talked about this when Best Picture was announced that it's a nice little poe peri of all the relevant premiere places. You had like you had begonia and Frankenstein in Venice. You had F1 and one battle in sinners nowhere.

You had sentimental value and the secret agent at Cannes. You had train dreams at Sundance. You had Marty Supreme at the New York Film Festival. And you had had it at Telly Ride. So you had this like international film festivals, American film festivals,

blockbusters, awards movies that don't have a festival premiere. So there's still, this just feels like a very robust and coherent award slate to me this year. And obviously these two movies have emerged as behemoths, but it did make this exercise for me a little more challenging.

In the past, I have found it to be much easier, even during COVID, to be like, nobody was ever thinking about this movie for the Oscars, but I think it's great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, my top five for the year is like a lot of Oscar movies. Yeah. Right.

So that doesn't always have. It is a little disorienting when you're kind of like your taste is for years and years and years and years has been not opposed to the academy. Because, you know, the thing that I love that I have loved my whole life about the Academy Awards is it's just another taste zone. Mm-hmm. That speaks to and appeals to me. But now that I could make a 10 best list And you know six of those movies go wind up as best picture nominees Right

It's really telling me that I have not changed This voting body has changed I wonder or is it just that we're old This is like a like Amanda and I are on an elder millennial journey together As we go into the middle of our life Where we getting older we are establishmentarian now Like we're like one battle should win. And it's like, so

you're rooting for like the leading contender from a major studio? It feels yucky. It's just weird. That's not your change. That's an industrial concern. And the like the, how do I put this? But how would that be different from like Schindler's list being the favorite in

1999? I mean, listen, with all due respect to our Lord and Savior, Stevens, Pilbord. It is 1993. It's Jurassic Park. Yes. Yes. Although, interestingly, Amanda, this is an intro. But think about the dichotomy that we're about to talk about.

Right. Yeah. Like, this man made, I mean, had, I mean, maybe the greatest year any director, any American director has ever had in 1993. But if I'm making my list, those five best picture nominees, maybe one of them is on my 10 best list. That's a good exercise we don't have time for. You know what I mean? Like, I do think that I, it's just different now. There's no world in which I'm not putting one battle after another or sinners or sentimental

value or Marty Supreme. I'm with you. I feel the same way. Or secret agent. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like there's... Six of my top seven favorite movies of the year are nominated for Best Picture.

That's fucking weird. It just means that they're the like... No, five of my top seven. Few. I'm not that much of ignoring. Yeah. I just think that. the pool has changed.

The studios are much more interested in having just one thing to take to the Academy Awards as opposed to figuring out which of our little girls is going to go to the prom, right? I mean, I think that that's what happened to weapons in a weird way. How was it? Great. Do you go both years? Three years. I went as a sophomore as well.

What's up, Jim Hobart? I know you're watching. Wow, that's huge. Yeah. Jim Hobart is really watching. Yeah, he was like my best, my best friend. We're still at touch. Yeah.

And so he took me when I was a, yeah, a sophomore. I think they meet him at your wedding. Yeah. Isn't that nice? Hi, Jim. Yeah. That's nice. I just don't, I think that things are different.

And I'll have to really think about how to articulate what I feel is a real difference. But I definitely think you saw it last year where every single one of those movies would have been a different kind of movie, including a Nora, which would never have gotten anywhere near the best picture Oscar, but would have been like in a five-picture year, the fifth movie. Yes. And we did talk about that a lot last year. We were like, this is Banana's Town, that this is what the Academy Awards is now. I like a Nora a lot, but I'm like, since when is this, the best picture is bizarre?

Like, let's just sort of setting aside how anybody actually feels about these movies. that would have been the critics' favorite movie. And it would have gotten no best picture. Totally. And everybody would have been like, see, the Academy sucks because all Tom Baker got with the best original screenplay nomination.

Right. Even winning the palm and then and being like accepted. Well, all the more reason. All the more reason. All the more reason. Yeah, good luck. Big in France.

Yeah. I mean, David Croner, like there's a number of directors who've really missed their chance with this like constriction. They built up kind of synophilia over years that is leading us to this. They've helped, right. Oh, that's interesting.

David Kronenberg crawled so I could walk. I mean, so Sean Baker could for sure. Yeah. For people like that who are like, I'm cutting edge and I'm putting things that make you uncomfortable in front of you, but I also find containers to make it contemporarily enjoyable. One battle and sinners are the same thing, you know? I mean, a lot of sex and sinners. Yeah.

A lot of like obscure fascistic violence in one battle, you know? And sex. And sex. Those things are all... Anyway, let's get into the categories. So we all chipped in on each category. The first category that we always talked about is best first feature.

I strongly feel this should be at the Academy Awards. Really? Yes. This to me could do so much more work than what the shorts do. I know that there are a lot of defenders of the shorts. I'm not here to get those emails. I don't have strong enough feelings about it.

We've never cared about the shorts. It should be a separate program. and I think first feature is a better way to bring in what the shorts are trying to do and less easier to buy. I mean, the shorts are just like, I don't know, did you find a fancy rich person or, you know, Netflix to program your short?

It's silly. I understand that. I have no argument against it, and it's very sound. Or to New Yorker. What the hell? Once again, guys, come on. You won, but enough, okay? Wait, what, wow.

That is really? I just every year. We just support our journalistic institutions, you know. Wesley works at the New York Times. I am a subscriber to both. I'm also paying a nominee of the Academy Awards. Paying subscriber. That's true.

You guys do it. But it's like, it is a little bit of a joke now. I log out and they're like three New Yorker shorts nominated for every year. How about this? I mean, I'm not, I'm really truly neutral here. But like what about the idea to your point about having this? You guys kind of just like seduced me into thinking about like, a best first film Oscar.

Yeah. Is this, by the way, are people talking about doing this? Is this on the table? No, but I'm going to keep stamping my feet, just like I did for casting and first time. Okay. Yeah. I think that there is a place you now know you can go if you're a New Yorker subscriber to see short filmmaking somewhat reliably.

And I think that that is, there's some value in that. I'm not opposed to that. I'm not. I will say the fact that these nominees are now, to watch on the New Yorker. The fact that there are some shorts that are not available in any way, I mean, you can go to the movie theater. I agree. This is an issue.

We have the internet. This is a- commercial award show. They do package them, you know, for years, I was reviewing the shorts. You could go to the theater. You can go to the theater. I kind of like that experience. It's not in every city.

It's a tricky thing. I'm not trying to denigrate shorts. I just think that this is a better representation of emerging filmmakers in the marketplace because they've made a feature. I like this. Also, thinking about the number of people who could have an Academy Award right now. It would change. And that's one of the reasons why I think maybe they won't do it is because, like, maybe Chris Nolan wins for Memento so you don't feel as strongly that he needs to win for blah, blah, blah.

So anyway, let's just do this category. Here are the nominees. No, that presupposes. And at some point, we should do like a postmortem on the Oscar Snubs episode. Following? Would he have won for following? Oh, following, not Memento. thank you. You're right following.

And how you and Katie Rich especially feel that people can only have one Oscar. No. What? That's not what I said. They were doing a lot of Oscar history. That's not what I said. What we were saying in those exercises that we were doing? It revealed a lot. That clip taking off was the least surprising thing of all time.

Wait, that was a thing? It never reached me. You can look at it afterwards. But the thing is, is that the Academy frequently thinks. It's on Instagram. There's a rare class of people that get more than one. And a lot of times when someone gets one, they're like, you're good, you got one. Now, sometimes you get a Denzel or John Ford, and they're like, Merrill Streep, Jack Nicholson, Sean Penn. We've got to keep giving you these things because you are in the elite class.

But it's very rare. And so you use that as a way to say, like, okay, if we could just get Pacino his Oscar in the 70s, we don't have to pretend like he's doing his best work in the 90s because he's not. But in the 70s, he was the greatest actor on her. And it also hurts him in this phase of his career, too, because... Yes, yeah. A second one would have been better for the Irishman. It would have been for the son of a woman.

100%. Anyway. I believe that. I believe that. But I mean, let him have as many Oscars. I agree. Of course I agree with that. Okay.

There are a lot of sound guys out there like, I'm coming for Sean. Yeah. Like Dennis Muran, the visual effects... What are we doing? Artists who has eight Academy Awards. Like, some people win a lot. Some people don't. Best First Feature.

Ava Victor for Sorry Baby, Carson Lund for Ephis, Harry Leighton for Pillion, Lawrence Lamont for One of Them Days, Alex Russell for Lurker, and Aconola Davies Jr. for my father's shadow. Gut, gut reaction. Who deserves this prize? One of them days, I love that movie so much. I really did. Did you add this? I added. What an achievement. I go. No, well, I was just saying there's one of them days will be getting another award or I will walk out

of this room. So. In the next category? I'm going to keep you right here. Okay, thank you. Yeah, in the next category. Well, then if you think that's the case, now I don't want to give it to Lawrence Lamont.

Yeah, so that's like, again, once again, our bias over here, just one Oscar for everybody. I'm trying to spread the love. I agree. That is sort of the exercise of the alternative Oscars, a.k.a. That's right. Okay, the big picks.

Well, let's talk about Pileon then. I would like to talk about Pileon. That is where I lean as well. I don't, can I say something really controversial? Yes. You don't like it? Another Lord and Savior situation here. I don't like

sorry Julia Roberts Sorry maybe Really interesting What is it that doesn't It's okay Anytime that What is it actor's name Naomi Aoki?

Yes When she's not there Naomi Aki Naomi Aki Like when she's gone I don't Nothing about this interests me Interesting

Lucas Hed When he's a Like I just did not like that character as written, directed, or acted. It's been interesting because I had Ava on the show. I just didn't feel...

Seen Ava around a lot in the award season and they're different from that character. Obviously that character is very personal to Ava Victor and they've talked about that. But... Ava Victor is very fun

and very funny. Yeah. And the movie is very intense and very intense. and very internal. And we talked about the jury scene. I was going to say the jury scene is very emotional, but it is funny too in a dark way. It is.

And that to me is that I agree, the Miyaki character and that friendship is a very beautiful thing that I have referenced a lot. I love the friendship. I love the friendship. And when Lucas Hezers shows up, you're just like, oh, Lucas Hedges. It's really nice to see you. since we've been.

Where you been? It's wonderful. So it has a lot of delights. And I think about that, the jury scene. Both the questionnaire that's filling out, which is really funny. And like, but, you know, funny and observant. And then the, like, you know, that I can't really answer this question or blah, blah, blah. Or, you know, that whole speech is amazing.

It's very well performed. But I think it's really, really well written. To me, this is like a feat of the screenplay ultimately. And I think that's why Ava Victor's been getting. But let's talk about Philean. Okay. I think this is a movie that should never have worked. And it is just a marvelous contraption.

I just, I loved falling in love with this movie because I was really resistant to it. But just, I mean, just, it was one of those movies the minute it ended because it's got a nice sandwich structure. Yeah. And the minute it ended, I instantly understood why everything that happened in the first five. It's rare to feel this. It's like when you read a book in the first book you either loved or like wanted to understand how it was built. You get to the last page. And a lot of the times, I'll go right back to the beginning.

I'll go immediately back to the beginning and read the first 50 pages, like right like that. This was one of those movies where like, if I could have the time, to go back and just watch it over again from the beginning. I would have, but I remember the first 10 minutes so clearly, and I understand that that's his family now, right? And there's a clear dynamic going on here in the Glee Club, barbershop quartet. Anyway, this is such a well-written, well-directed, well-acted,

truly emotionally surprising movie, and none of it should work. Yeah. This would be my pick. as well. Even the choreography of their bodies in those like sex scenes. Yes. Are just how did they do that? How did they do it?

Magical. It's just so good. It's so, so good. Harry Melling, I just, I don't know. I don't know this guy. I mean, I know his face from the movies, obviously, from the Harry Potter movies. But like, what a brave, tender, fully understood thing to do? Like, he understands what he's doing.

I mean, so does Scarsguard, but also the mother in this, I don't know, just every single thing about this movie, the way the father operates. When they're driving around at the end. I know. And that's the scene, the day off. The whole day off and the acting and the day off. Well, Scarsgard just turning on the other switch. And then. And him just completely shifting his performance at the end of the movie is.

The women sitting on the bench. Oh, I love that. They were so great. If you haven't seen Pillion, go see Pillion. It's a terrific movie. God. What a surprise. Okay, Pillion wins.

Was that a Sundance movie? It was Cannes. Okay. Okay, breakthrough performance. This would be a little harder to add at the Academy Awards because who can break through and how? You know, we have Best New Artist. Oh, wait. Which is a joke of a category of the Grammys, but yes.

Okay, the nominees for Breakthrough Performance are Siza, one of them days. Guillain Marbeck, Nouvelle Vogue, Jack Quaid and Sophie Thatcher for Companion, Frank Delane for Urchin Mariam Afshari from It Was Just an Accident and Erin Kellerman for Eleanor the Great Am I the only person who has seen Eleanor the Great? No, I saw it.

I did not. I didn't circle back to that one. I didn't love it. I didn't love it either, but I like this actress. That's a good choice. And she is the woman in the Bone Temple, Amanda. Oh, she's great. She's really, really, I really have my eye on her.

I think she's a really, really gifted. And I think Eleanor the Great is like real bagging kind of Amanda. mess. But I liked what she did in that movie. That's inspired. Okay. So you already, you showed your hand on who you want to win. Is there, is there anything you want to say about any of these? One of them days. To me, Jack Queen is not a breakthrough, but I like them together. I like them together because this is our awards show. And we can nominate two people at once or we can nominate one person for two performances. We are in charge.

That's true. This is our day. Yes. Um, Thatcher got a lot of money on Thatcher. Need that to work. She's going to be in her private hell. Need that to work. Nicholas Lending reference next movie. Oh, he's back. He's back. He's back. There's something about Nouvelle Vag, like cleaning up at the Césars, the French Oscars. That makes me feel better about the Oscars, the America, like, everything. I was kind of like, well, it goes both ways.

No, you're so, that's so smart because we were talking about this last night. We like an import and simplified, like, idealized version. Linklater was the first non-French person to win best director at the Cesar's. That's interesting. Whatever, guys. Gil and Marbeck had never acted before. How is that possible? This is what y'all get for the artist.

How about that? This is what y'all get. We return the favor. The artist for revenge. This is a great category that I would love to see someone figure out how to do well. Siza, I agree. Now, Siza, a little bit of cheating because she got 10 years to figure out how to be like a famous, interesting person on camera. I mean, I don't know.

I don't know. You go to that movie, which is a delight. She's so good. So much better. She didn't even need to be this good. She didn't need to be this good. It's incredible. I mean...

One of the only successful original movies that came out in 2025. I mean, it's kind of shocking. You mean financially successful? Financially successful, yeah. I love this movie so much that, like, I might burst into tears remembering how much I laughed at it. It is the funniest movie. It is also one of the great... I mean, just instantly one of the great friendship movies.

Yeah. One of the great friendship movies. I mean, these two people, Kiki Palmer plays the other friend, they you just believe that they've never not known each other even if they just met the day before filming started

these two characters have been friends because these you believe these people have been friends for as long as the movie says they've been friends

because these two actors are selling the friendship and Siza is so funny playing a character right? Yeah. She's not playing Siza. She's a goofball

in the movie. She's just playing a dingbat Who sometimes her clock is right. You know? I don't know. I love that movie so much. This is why this award show exists. It gives his a prize.

I mean, getting the sneakers off the, off the old electricity pole. Like, being stuck with that hair like that. I like the visits of the loan service. The loan service is the best. That scene is so funny. I always put her in for cameo. That actor is so. And also Kat,

when he's outside telling them not to go in, that movie is really funny. It's like, I forgot about Cat Williams. It's really weird because I'm like, this movie was a hit and yet not enough people have seen it. I think it's on Netflix right now actually.

It's really good. Somewhere. Next category, best cameo. I think this would be a fun award actually because there is an arc to this. Yeah. It's showing up in a movie for five minutes or less and doing a good job.

The nominees that we have here are Bad Bunny for Happy Gilmore 2. Connor O'Malley for friendship. Sarah Michelle Geller for I Know What You Did Last Summer. Bradley Cooper for Superman. Tony Todd for Final Destination Bloodlines. And Tremel Tillman for Mission Impossible, The Final Reckoning. Ooh.

I mean, this is... Loaded category. Wait, sorry. Bradley Cooper plays Calel. Jorrell. Jorrell. Sorry, Jorrell. I kind of loved that.

I laughed really hard when I saw it. That made me funny because I think he also knows that he's the one major actor that we've got who has not been entirely sucked in. We'll have a rocket raccoon. He did it in the smartest way. I know. This is what I'm saying. Like, nobody thinks of him as being.

He got to enjoy all the fruits of that, but didn't have to be. In the tractor beam. I don't know. He's just so shrewd about what he chooses to do. And I feel like, he's very funny when it comes to cameos. He's done a bunch of these over here. He's like, he's forging in a Matt Damon territory. where he's like, sure, part of the joke is that Bradley Cooper's.

Yeah, but he doesn't have the baggage that Matt Damon gets to unpack every time he makes a cameo, right? So it's just a different thing. But it puts him in the lineage of Brando in a very funny way. Right. If it was good enough for Brando, I can do this. Exactly, exactly, exactly. That's what made me laugh when I saw it. It's clever.

I like it. The only thing I liked about that movie pretty much was that cameo. Interesting. I didn't dislike. I didn't hate the movie. I just didn't. whatever buoyancy I wanted to experience

when I left the theater I didn't It won't come up again here in the Yeah But I think I think it's I don't know I'm going to go with Tony Todd Well he passed away

And so that would be An honorable thing to do He was the He was the glue Of the Final Destination franchise I might want to spread some love For Final Destination bloodlines Elsewhere

In this category Or in another category Do you want to make a case For Tramil Toulman? I mean, just, you don't like it? Oh, come on. They basically shoplifted his sort of severance performance, and you don't watch Severance, too. Well, that's right.

Yeah, I don't know what it is. So I don't care. That guy in a Mission Impossible movie. He's got a little bit more like stank on it, though, in Mission Impossible. Yeah, and it's also. Fair, but still, it's the same. I will say it, just being on a plane. I like Tramelle Tillman, by the way.

When he shows up on, like, on someone else's screen in this movie. You're drawn to him. That part. He is magnetizing. I have seen people. I've seen him on people's airplane screens myself. And I'm like, yeah, exactly. Like, there he is.

You must be out of your mind. That's just a great line reading, very memorable. Nobody made me laugh harder than Connor O'Malley in friendship. Where he was like, I think we should go back to Afghanistan. I honestly. That's good stuff. Died. This is a tough one.

Also, I got to be honest, SMG. I really liked seeing her in the absolutely dreadful I know what you did last summer reboot. I didn't see it. Sarah Pigeon is now Carolyn Besat Kennedy. Sarah Pigeon plays in a cordurol and I know what you did last summer. Oh my God, that's who that is? Yeah, I texted you this. I know.

I got to watch Love Story. Kaya was telling me she's watching Love Story too. Is everybody watching Love Story? Yeah, I'm not up to date. I think Eileen and I need a show. So maybe that'll be our show. Just something to watch together at this juncture in time. Good luck.

All right, I'm going to start watching it. Okay. Is Juliet watching it? No, but I'm telling her about it. And maybe she'll catch up. if we ask her. So you guys are talking about it. Yeah, I'm doing my report.

She does Grey's Anatomy reports and I do. We're three in? We might be five because they released the first three of ones. But it's Naomi, right, right. It's Naomi Watts doing Jackie Kennedy. This is why you watch it. Yeah.

Okay, who's winning? You want Tony Todd? Who do you want? I'm actually, I'm on the, we even even talked about Bad Bunny, who really did. The funniest part of the movie. He stole that movie.

The whole movie, it's his. Yeah. I would be fine for that. I nominated Bad Bunny as well. Bad Bunny is the winner. What a year for Bad Bunny in 2026. Absolutely amazing. Best Kid Performance, 17 years and under. Now, I think it's been acclaimed Jacoby Jupe in Hamlet. Yeah. If this actually was at the Academy Awards, he would win in a walk.

He's not represented in our awards here today. I think maybe just because Hamlet is dominated. Yes, yes, yes. Here are the nominees. Everett Blunk for the plague. Carrie Christopher for weapons. Jonah Ren Phillips for Bring Her Back. He was the little demon boy.

Oh, oh. Alfie Williams for 28 years later. Lexi Venter for Don't Let's Go to the Dogs tonight. I just saw this movie yesterday. Really good performance. I do not see it. And Nina Yeh for left-handed girl. I think there's a frontrunner in this category.

Alfie Williams? No, I think it's Carrie Christopher. Oh, Carrie Christopher. That's, yeah. He's the little boy in weapons. Okay. I love him. Yeah.

What a hard job. It's very Haley Joel Osmet without the training. So there's kind of like an immediacy to what it is doing. Right. And also there's something about kids who have to perform fear. And I always wonder about the place they go to to find being scared. And is it harder? Is it easy?

And I really, really... And do they understand? And what are they know, right? But I think the thing that I love about this performance, though, is that, like, for the actor giving it, it's complete. Because, you know, it's all in the script, right? I've been being bullied for years by these kids. And now, all of a sudden, they're gone. Like, did I do something?

Did something happen? He's got to be mad at the Julia Gardner character. Like, there's just so many opportunities. for him having to work with Madigan, I think, is really also, you know, a lot of those table sequences are tricky because she's going very big and very scary. I like it a lot. I mean, I think that this is a really good slate in this category this year. It's not always as robust as it is. I do think Alfie Williams is terrific in 28 years later.

He's kind of, you don't like him. He's fine. I just didn't like a movie. Okay. I just did not. Did you see the plague? Not yet. And neither of you've seen the plague.

Can you roll with Carrie Christopher? Yeah. You want to make any other case? No, that's good. Best performance by an animal. There's only one nominee this year. Sorry, baby. He's going to get that victory.

Oh, the cat. Oh, the cat and sorry, baby. Because we've not nominated the dog from Superman. I say no. Astro. The, the CGI dog. Yeah, no CGI dogs are eligible. Yeah, I agree.

It's not ideal. Although I did, he was my second favorite part of the movie after, after Bradley Cooper showing up for 10 seconds. I will say, like, I did like the, spirit of that movie in a lot of ways. It just didn't do anything remotely as interesting as it thought it was doing just by being in a good mood. That's a very incisive Wesleyism. I think what Corn Sweat and Brazenhead have is good, and I want to see more of it. Yeah, they have chemistry is really good. Then give me a whole

movie of that. I agree. It kind of teases that movie and then it takes it away from me. Even that scene where they're like having that ethics conversation in his living room or whoever's living room it is. Like I wanted three more scenes of that And it's very sork in and a polish on the writing right because It you just needed to keep experiencing I think they're gonna do more of it I think and I think Holt is good too I don't know I like I like superman I really liked it when it came out it's I kind of faded a little bit and I guess supergirls coming out like three months which is crazy

Um Okay next category best stunts action sequence the nominees are the the biplane finale of mission impossible final reckoning all the kids running around in weapons. Oh, actually. The raid in warfare. I don't know if you've seen war. Have you seen warfare? No, I didn't see war.

Okay, that's fucking amazing. The causeway chase in 28 years later. Which we know Wesley's not voting for. The whole lot of love NASCAR race at the opening of F1. Sure. And very inspired choice. Thank you so much.

Yeah. The how it's done intro in K-pop demon hunters. When they're fighting on the plane and then they get to the concert. That's a good one. randomly in the car the other day, Zach was like, you know what's really good is this scene?

We were listening to it. He was like this scene in K-pop Demon Hunter. It's just like a stone-cold opener to a movie that sets the scene. I think we are real. I mean, I at least missed a great piece of writing about K-pop Demon Hunters as a, just as a movie. I came to it really, really late

because I kind of misunderstood what was happening. But I was like, I'm a weekly chart watcher, And I'm like, Golden has been number one for, like, oh, it's from that movie. So I watched it. I just couldn't believe how much fun it was. It's just so fun. Anyway, the biplane. What are we doing?

I mean, it is the biplane. It was a good list. It's not even, like, it's not even close. That movie is a mess, but that sequence is among the best things I've ever seen in a movie theater. I just can't even believe it. A thousand percent. They went for it. Nobody died.

And Isai Morales versus Tom Cruise is a match. I never thought. That is like, that is like the 34th ranked player versus number one. Yes. But he's doing great Bond villain.

He's great. He's very entertaining. I wish they. Had more to do. I wish they figured that character out. Yeah. I wish AI weren't involved, but that's just me.

What do you mean? Recond the motivation for that character too. The, like, AI is going to take over the world plot of the last two movies. All the AISO was really stupid. Yeah, yeah. I didn't. All right, fine.

I give you, well, no. But the first half, you know, the first movie in this, in this, in this, in this duplex, every single thing in it to me is five stars. See, I love the first half of this movie. The first half of the last one or part seven. The whole movie of the part, how do we talk about it? Oh, the one with the Rome chase. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. The Rome set piece, A plus. The train bit at the end. I agree. Rebecca Ferguson dying in Venice. I visit that bridge every time I know. It's hard for me to talk about this because the last one broke my heart so deep.

Yeah, I know. But anyway, the biplane sequence, there's no one. Vanessa Kirby's very good. The AI in it is still silly, but that's all. No, I mean, Issa Marellis versus Tom Cruise in the air. Just come on. What are we doing? Where are my gloves?

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Okay, next category. Yes. Best ending. Eddington. Final destination bloodlines. I wanted to show a little love to It Ends, which was. was the film that you could rent on the letterbox video store. Alexander Ulam's debut.

Bagonia. Marty Supreme. Ooh. Interesting. It wrecked a couple people at this table. Which one? The one that we saw, not the... The...

The bassinet? Yeah. Oh, okay. Let's keep going. And all the other babies are crying. What's next? And having it with nine question marks after it. Who?

You put that in that? here's the thing. I have not, I have not been supportive. Because if you're putting Hammond in there, I would throw the secret agents ending in there too. I mean, sure, yeah, put it in. I'm a little torn on that because these are very Oscar-y movies. Yeah, yeah. Okay, then we don't have to. But they all have interesting endings that are all like pretty

audacious, I would say. Can you talk to me and I'm just going to sit back about the Marty Supreme ending? It's one of the real things I've ever seen. I'm just honestly, extremely emotional. Matches one to one with my experience as a new father, one to one. I mean, it doesn't for me at all because an interesting thing listening to Sean talk about like all the girl dad movies this year because there's been a lot of dads and a lot of moms. We were talking about this last night.

And you said something in one episode, I'll never forget, which was just like, this is what happens. You just like get handed a baby out of nowhere. which is not what happened to me at all. Right. Yeah, men don't experience it in the same way. Yeah. But there is something about... The end of the Marty Supreme, really, for me, is him winning the fake match.

And the reaction on Chalemay's face, where I, like, started crying the first time. And then it's everything else that happens in the scene beside him. It's the music cue. It's the way... It's the sound. In the very final scene? Yes.

In the very final scene. He's at the hospital and he sees the baby and the tears for fear hits and you know and you know the first line or I know the first line that's coming. It's this. It's the sound. Every other baby in that nursery is wailing throughout that entire scene. And the nurse is just there being like, whatever. This is which I thought was so funny and well observed and also telling about what's coming. That baby, incredible baby acting, we should have given the award to the baby, because that

baby gives the Marty character, like a what is wrong with you face? That is so... Also, so relatable to me in my experience of early first moment fatherhood where the baby is just like, fuck man, like this is not comfortable. Like, I just got out here. It's cold as shit. I need somebody to clean me off. I need to be fed immediately. Like, it wasn't like the heavens opened and a light. shone down and that everything was going to be perfect from now on. But it was very clearly Marty realizing in 30 seconds that what's past this prologue and that everything going forward is completely different. And this three-hour mania that we experienced is insignificant relative to what has

happened in this exact moment. I thought like a great act of movie storytelling. I absolutely loved it. And I felt the same thing even if I wasn't like, yeah, this is exactly. I felt that way every time I've watched it. and just kind of, to me, he grows up. Like, that's what it is. To me, like, that is a coming of age movie,

and that's a person who's just like that. And, like, well, now I've grown up. And, like, whether I chose to and whether he will actually meet the moment, no idea. Probably not based on what we know. But it's like, here you are. Like, you know, this is your life. This is, okay. You teed us up for something.

Yeah. I don't even, let's keep going. Okay. I'm going to absorb that. I just have never. Who should win this? The reason I wanted to hold off on Tony Todd is because the funniest thing ever

is Final Destination Bloodline's ending with the logs and the train track explosion and all the characters dying, which was just like enormously satisfying, like a great callback to the best moment in the history of the franchise. Everyone dying at the end,

which is how all these movies should work. To me, when we talk about like, oh, it ain't like it used to be or we're talking about like Oscar movies, it's also this. It's also just like funny, mean-spirited horror sequence. Just starting with the trailer, I'm like, okay, I'm watching this trailer through my, I'm watching it like this.

Yes. Yes. With like the glass and the ice. I'm not, I'm not, um, to the extent that I'm nostalgic for that, it definitely tapped something for me and I'm like, these movies stress me all the way out, but I miss that stress and I would like to experience it a little bit again. Okay. So once you get like, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, If you're taking it, that's fine.

That's good. I do think that the Eddington ending is extremely powerful as well. I thought about it every single time. The image of the data center. Yeah. The very last shot of the movie. I mean, I think also the final moment. Oh, yeah.

You know, is you have an Eddington problem. We know this about you. Yeah. Or maybe it's our Eddington problem. Yeah. Well, it is interesting that like the traction for or against it, I guess. I mean, I don't know. It's gone way for it in the last three months because of what the world looks like right now.

There's a lot of like, actually this movie was too soft. We miss something. Well, it was just like, this movie is right. Okay. Wait, we were too soft in our enthusiasm for it or? I think the early chatter on it was too soon. And then the late chatter on it was not soon enough. Hmm. Hmm.

So he falls through a crack that Paul Thomas Anderson kind of just like. One movie with like the most depressing, nihilistic ending imaginable and one bad after another of like, hey, my daughter's going to go out and take care of the world. You know, like two different energies. Keep the fight going, yeah. Okay. I think that like if we're sticking to the five things that are six things that we have to work with, even having listened to the case you just made for Marty Supreme, which I had never really...

heard expressed in such a spiritual and personal way. Many people are saying Amanda is spiritual. Bagonia is the only winner here. I mean, I absolutely, I love the Coda. The Cota is so good. Bologna is the only winner. Like if you, even if you,

also, even if you hate this movie and you aren't sure, because I don't know, this is an interesting thing to talk about. Like, I didn't think she was the alien. Yeah. I went back and forth the whole time, which was the point. I just didn't think she was. I just didn't believe it.

And part of me feels like a dummy now. Because Emma Stone, she wasn't going to take this part if she couldn't be the. Do you what I mean? It's a good point. It's a really good way of framing it. But the movie is so good at knowing that you think she is, you're going back and forth and is really playing with you and like gets you. It got me too. I didn't think she was, even when she went into the closet, I was like, what's going on?

Amanda, Amanda, I still, even then I was like, no, man, he's just crazy. And she's just like, she's just playing along. And then that scene. They're just up there being aliens together. It is the funny. I mean, my job, I was bored for a lot of the movie. But, I mean, but bored in awe of her. Right?

Like, because I mean, she really is... She's a go right now. It is... It is... I mean, I mean, I guess I've all... We've all... I mean, you watch Easy A and you know. Yeah.

That Emma Stone, you knew she was going to be something and the movies changed and she still got to be some version of it anyway. She is, from the standpoint of everything that matters to a great screen actor, the best actor I think we have. Yes. Right now.

Period. Period. Period. Period. I really like the material that she picks. I do think she needs a Yorgos break. She needs a break. She needs a break.

She needs a, because I think a lot of what has brought me to this feeling is this collaboration. And it's been great. I've enjoyed it. Can I just say, what we be asking, would we be asking Michael B to stop working with Coogler? No, but I think that's because we know that Coogler is, MBJ is always. always at his best with Coogler, and Emma Stone can be at her best with other people, and we want to see that. Right. I do, but I also want to know if he can bring some of the Coogler with him if he did another Just Mercy, right?

We'll see. We're going to find out. No more lawyers. That's fair. No, no, no. No, no. You know what? You know what? You know what? Not even, and this is an important note. This is an important note for Thomas Crown Affair as a student. Well, he's a thief. He's, is it? No briefcases. He can be a lawyer it's the briefcase. There was just, he is going up the stairs in Just Mercy and it's the way he doesn't know what to do with the briefcase. That's all it is. We've got to keep moving.

Okay. That's all it is. This is an important show. We've got to keep it on time. I feel like, I've never felt closer to the people who manage ABC as I do right now. So you're not going to. I'll give it to Bagonia. I don't give it to fuck.

Okay, cool. Bagonia wins. It's the only prize. Amanda, why don't you please read for us the next prize? So I've added a new category called the Most Fun Had Borgonia. by an actor this year. My nominees are Javier Bardem, F1. Rosamine Pike, now you see me, now you don't.

Are you up on what's happening in that movie? It's so good. She is playing a South African Diamond Princess with the full accent. Okay. One of the best things that happened at the movies last year. Yeah. Robert Pattinson, Mickey 17. Oh, okay.

And then you could also put Tremel Tillman in this category. To me, it's Rosamine Pike in a walk. I'm going to watch this tomorrow. It's an incredible play movie. Pretty much stinks, but honestly, she's really having a blast. Okay. All right, that's good. I didn't know she could be so camp.

I mean, she kind of had that in Saltburn, right? She did. The movie kind of let her try to go there. Yeah, that's like the best part of that movie to me. And she's really funny. You would never guess that like watching her. She and Carrie Mulligan, I would watch an ab-fab, like, parody movie with the two of them doing that. This is a great category.

Why don't you read the next category? It's also important to you. So this is so mean. The Glenn Close Memorial, It's Time, Oscar, which, you know, we give to someone who's been trying so hard and just can't get there. And let's put everyone out of their misery. I have suggested that we give this award to Noah Bob back. Oh, oh. I would like him to really win an Oscar.

I would too. I wanted to win a real one. But I also like, what are we doing? But we listen. Oh, wait, although, all right, the Glenn Clark. Okay, okay, okay, okay. Glenn Close. I feel like we can't do this to Glenn,

but it's just named after her. So it's like whatever happens after that is what happens. I mean, what went on here? I don't know. Because I have never been so... I mean, he's made some embarrassing movies. Like, I think that white noise... I'm a defender.

I like that, too. I'm a huge defender of Noah's. I think he's... Of everything? There are some I like a lot more than others. There are some movies that I'm not crazy about. I'm, like, he's incredibly important to me. Like, I am a disciple.

And I did not understand what was going on. And I, like, I... She was more down on it than I was. I went to Venice to be there for the premiere. Like, I was in the room. There was a rate, I was almost stuck on that island because I love no bombback. I think what's hard for me about Jay Kelly is it's such an exposure of the underlying values or something. I feel like this is a man who has really gone out of his way to be a real cinematic weird.

and the idea that the person who made, oh my God, I'm never going to remember what that movie is called. What's the one where Greta Gerwig goes to the, to the, to her sister or cousin or niece's house? Mistress America. When they get to the house of Mistress America, it is such a, such a Bunwellian train wreck. The Connecticut House.

Yeah, yeah. I think about the nerve of that sequence, of that passage of that movie all the time. It doesn't work, but there's a real attempt to, like, not play by anybody's rules. I love that movie. And this, to me, is such a betrayal of those values, or it is the truth. Or it was, or it was the truth, right? I think it is. I think it's also, there is a whimsy and like a two in this.

In J. Kelly that I don't recognize that he co-wrote it with Emily Mortimer. Like, I understand. What you have a positive idea to you both? If you swapped out George Clooney for Tom Hanks would have to work? I don't. I mean, they still have to say the same words. Yeah. And be on that same train and have that same dialogue with the daughter.

It is definitely a Clooney problem. And I know why they, I know why. I know why he wanted him. I know why he was a fit. I know you love Sandler in this movie. And I love Sandler as well. And I'm happy to see him. But like, what is going on there?

Wait, you like Sandler in this movie? No, I don't dislike him. But I'm just, and it's not even his fault. Like, what is that character? You know what I wanted to hang up the phone? Like, I know what it is. That first scene on the set. That scene, the opening, the opening sequence.

Can I get one more of that one? I just hated it. I just hate listening to, like, Hollywood people like writing about Hollywood people pretending to have like deep or emotional or spiritual phone calls while at work

it just makes me so mad but all the stuff with Billy crut up this is just every single the daughter sequences I was so mad at this movie for so long and was waiting for something

to redeem it and oh I'm completely mystified by I've spent months and months trying to understand it. It was mildly enjoyable. It's like one of my favorite filmmakers in Italy. Like, I don't know what my problem is. And I had some problems. You don't have a problem.

I know. But do you think if you give him this prize now, we'll dispel? Can we go back to Greenberg? Yes. Like, I hope so. Greenberg, too. Oh my God. I would give anything for Greenberg, a movie that I didn't even love, but I love it in

retro. Greenberg two, colon, I love L.A. That's what it's going to be. Think about when there. It's going to be like Arthur 2 on the rocks. The scene when they're driving the Greta Groller character to get the abortion. And she's like, can we go to in and out afterwards? And he's like, it's your day.

I think about it. Every day. Yeah. I mean, she's also bad in this movie. Like. Greta? Well, also, why would she do that too? Why?

I think that I think he was going for a tone that he just did not quite have his arms around. I just don't know. It was like a little bit more of like a silly Italian. you know, romp. But he frequently misfires tone. I mean, while we were young. Like, I don't know. That had ad rock, so that's fine with me.

Okay, we have to keep moving. What's next? What's next? We're going to the real awards now. Congratulations, Noah Bob Back! You're welcome. Oh, my God. Best screen play.

The nominees are Mary Bronstein for if I'd like, I'd kick you. Michael Angelo, Covino, and Kyle Morven for Splitsville. Claibor Mendoza Filio for the Secret Agent. Zach Greger for Weapons. Ava Victor for Sorry, Baby. and Ari Astor for Eddington. You're doing your sorry is like Canadian.

Sorry, baby? Yeah. Sorry? Sorry? The word is not sorry. It just, I don't know whether it's like the Matt Johnson, sorry. Like Nirvana, the band, the show, the movie effect.

I like that Canadian. I've been trying to say sorry, but it just does, as an American, you just don't want to be, let them have it the proper way. Which prize is Claibor Mendoza Filio going to win? Because he's going to win one of these. Yeah. And he wasn't nominated for any of these. feel like

what are the what are our options it's it's screenplay or director I think weapons I'm going to say weapons if we can give if we can give our

I think it's weird that this is not nominated in original I do too how do you explain that I don't know I really thought it was going to happen it's such a slam dunk I know for an original

screenplay nomination I predicted it to be in best picture and my thinking was it's going to get screenplay supporting actress and picture and that's like that's a good package for your like 6

Sense-style, like, original thriller that the Oscars sometimes likes, and it just didn't get there. And also my friend, Nick Coolish, revealed to me, is also kind of personal, too. Oh, yeah. You can feel that. You can feel that. But I didn't know about the sort of undergirding. Right. His friend who passed away.

Yeah. I didn't know about any of that stuff. Yeah. And there's all kinds of stuff about addiction and recovery that's in the movie. I think it's a really good script. I love this script. I would happily give it to weapons. You want to make a case for anything?

I think this is the only place Mary Bronstine. is nominated. I didn't put her in direct her. I mean, I think it's a better directed movie. I agree with that. I agree with that. I think the script is good, but I think it's like a real vision. This is a real feat of directing. No, and there are a few directorial choices that are amazing, but

I don't know. The whole thing is a directorial. I don't like this bit with the ceiling. It's too much. I do like that. But just but just the way that Rose Byrne and the daughter are handled visually is transcendent.

Very smart. Very interesting idea. Just so, so imaginative. And really pays off. I don't know though. You very kindly last night asked me like, how is it being a mom? You know, or something. It wasn't like that. It was a mom in the face of the art that is reflecting on that. Yeah. And if I had like that, kick you is definitely about how it is really shitty to be a mom. Like that is sort of the thesis statement.

but that's not what this movie is about. It's about how hard the world makes it to be apparent. And I have certain circumstances too. And I have thought about so many specific scenes and not just like the observations, whether it's the parking attendant or like the support group or, you know, the wine being shut off at 2 a.m. I'll never get the image of her to shoving. the cheese from the pizza in her mouth in the first scene, which is the most like, I know that, I know that moment.

Right. And like, and every interaction with the doctor in, like, in the hallways, like, all of it is so, so little observed, but there's something also written about the character that I think is so fair and revelatory,

like, amazing. It's incredible. The best plot twist in any movie, oh, that's not true. There's been few good plot twists. But, like, this is definitely a top three plot twist, finding out what her job is. Mm-hmm. Like, finding out what her job is,

and the way we find out is one of the funniest, most shocking things I think I've ever seen that also reveals a character at the same time. Yes. Fantastic. So. I'll give it to Mary Bronson, Mary Bronstien, if you want to give it to.

No. I think Zach Cruggish. Yeah, Zach Krueger's going to. I wanted to make the case. Again, because the thing about that reveal, and if I had legs I kick you is it's just how it's just the P OV of the movie

It's just you are completely Inside our narcissism And stress That of course she knows a thing That she forgot to tell us Because she already knows it about herself So when we find out

You're just like The whole time You've had this job It's like okay Anyway Sorry. Okay, Zach Kregor is our winner. Okay.

Best supporting actor. The nominees are Tom Burke for Black Bag. Tim Key for the Ballad of Wallace Island. All the people you could have picked. Adam Sandler for Jay Kelly. I will not be moved off of that corner. Dylan O'Brien for anniversary, and I will speak with you guys about anniversary. Austin Abrams for weapons.

And William H. Macy for train dreams. Now, Dylan O'Brien, you could say, also for Twinless, potentially. We are doing that. We are doing that. So I'll add anniversary and twin list. Now, anniversary, you haven't seen it, right? No. Okay.

Have you seen it? I haven't seen it. Okay. Deranged film. Possibly the most deranged film of the year. I really like what he is doing in the movie. And it is a very slow evolution towards something that is evil. It's a movie about a very, like, successful college professor, sort of public intellectual type, played by Diane Lane.

And her family coming together, I think for a large anniversary person, I missed a Diane Lane movie last year. The cast of this movie is Diane Lane, Kyle Chandler, Zoe Deutsch, Phoebe Dinever, Dylan O'Brien, and Daryl McCormick, and McKenna Grace. Wow. And it's about the country slowly descending into fascism through the prism of a family that is at the center of this descent. Oh, wow. The movie is, like, so interesting on paper. Who did it?

It's a screenplays by someone named Lori Roseanne Gambino and the director is Jan Komasa. The execution is like kind of a train rack and at times laughable. The performances though are pretty good and Dylan O'Brien plays

kind of what is happening to young men in America. And I don't mean that in like the Joker sense. I mean that in like the Ben Shapiro sense. And it's he's very good. I'm not sure if I'm recommending this movie. And I feel very similar about twin lists. Well, now you've intrigued me.

It would be like a really great podcast episode, but not a good movie. Sure. Yeah. Which is a unique strain of culture. Right. But one, we find ourselves in more and more. We do indeed. I just wanted to explain that because I couldn't get him out of my head when I was thinking about this category.

Okay. Where do you guys lean here? Austin Abrams. I knew you were going to say that. We just gave weapons a lot of love. That's okay. I know. But he.

like it's hard to watch that movie and not. I mean, I just remember watching it being like, whoever this guy is, because you also, the thing that I love about this movie and the way it's structured is, you don't know who's important. Yeah. Right?

So there's this guy running around the periphery of this movie, and then all of a sudden he's got a, he's like, his tunnel reaches the light of his own section. Yes. You know? And I'm like, oh, wow. First of all, we get a break. Mm-hmm.

And second of all, we get to spend time with this performance, like, it's so dialed into the thing that it is, which is like... So funny. He's like the, he's the sixth consecutive euphoria cast member who's going to be a movie star. Oh, interesting. Like, he was the ninth lead on euphoria. And now he's going to lead the Resident Evil movie. And he was in Wolves.

He was the best thing in Wolfe. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's true. I forgot about that. He's a very good actor. I don't know. Who else? I mean, I'm open to, like, have it not be awesome.

rooms. I put William H. Macy on here just because... William H. Macy. I think he's wonderful. He's so great. And I also, I feel like I've seen every iteration of William H. Macy throughout like 40 years. And I was like, wow, I've never seen this before. And he's really seven minutes.

So beautiful. Yeah. This is his makeup Oscar for not winning for Fargo. Okay. There you go. I mean, also, whatever. We can talk about this. Are we going to talk?

Is old Joel out there somewhere? He's not nominated for best actor. Okay. Well, maybe now is the time to just be like train dreams, y'all. The acting and train dreams. It's like... It's really good. Joel Edgerton, what are we...

I mean, you and I, like, have a little bit of him. I know, I never got it with him. I mean, even Felicity Jones, who I am usually real black licorch about. That's true. She's great in it. It was a real union for us in terms of people that we didn't get, getting them. Yeah. I mean, Joel Edgerton, I just, I...

It's weird to fall in love with an actor you've been watching. for 15 years. You do like him though, but you liked him in the past? I like him, but I feel like there's usually somebody who's more interesting or he's too much.

I really like him in Underground Railroad because that part is impossible. Yeah. And he manages to do really surprising and absorbing things with it. And I feel like I understand

this sort of abstract figure in a way that he makes, he makes that character concrete. But this is, is just like a completely perfect use of Joel Ederton. I agree that. I think he's very good at... He's a listener. He picks very good material and he's not

worried about dominating anything. But I always find him to be just a little bit of a blank sheet of paper. And this was a rare case. And partially it's just because like Dennis Johnson just wrote his life and imbued him with something that maybe he doesn't always have to me as an actor. I think that also

his best mode might be tenderness. Right? Yeah, he's like that and loving though. You know. Yeah, but that movie is bad. I agree. It doesn't know what to do with him. And this movie

seems built around him, right? Like, that's an issue movie that has Joel Edgerton on the side of it. This, this to me, doesn't work if he doesn't work,

I don't think. And he really works in it. Well, Macy's getting hardware and he's not. William H. Macy. Great. Congratulations.

We've got five more categories. Best supporting actress. The nominees are Jody Comer for 28 years later. Una Chaplin for Avatar, Fire, and Ash. Vicki craps for father, mother, sister, brother. Nina Haas for Hedda. I'm taking out Pamela Anderson. No shots of Pamela.

Oh, my Pamela. Tanya Maria for the Secret Agent. Kirsten Dunst for Roofman. Oh, yes. And Regina Hall for one battle after another. It's hard for me to not pick Kiki, my, you know, my number one forever, like my writer writer day. I didn't love Roofman. She is also.

She's a very, very, very. elevated girlfriend, but she is playing the girlfriend. I want more for Kirsten Dunst. I think this part is great, though. The movie does not work, and it's kind of a, it's almost a crime that movie thinks it's going to get away with what it tried to get away with. But... Just like the roof man.

Well, exactly. This is the... But this is the problem. They're completely aligned. Yeah. You said the same thing. Yeah. I don't agree, but, you know, that's me. I think she is so good in this movie. She's good in everything. I know, but this is like a particularly smart use of a person who you would think would be too good for a part like this. But the understanding of her very transparency as an actor and her ability to play both acquiescence and skepticism simultaneously with that face, right? That face that looks like it's been around the world.

and every scene with every actor she's with it's kind of a different kind of weariness with the church people it's one thing with Channing Tatum it's another with the daughter it's something else with them all together it's a different thing her and Dinklage who plays her boss at the big box store where she works

is a different energy she's like kind but withholding sweet but if you cross her she will put a knife in your chest Like, I don't know. I just, I can't believe, talk about a movie that had one great supporting performance in it that didn't get any nominations that should have gotten one for this.

All right. Well, then, why? Wow. But Tani Maria. Tanya Maria. Listen. Tanya Maria. I would give a similar speech about Tanya Maria.

Tanya Maria from the Secret Agent. We will talk about the Secret Agent in depth on Friday on this show. I mean, nobody fucking saw the Jim Jarmish movie. Vicki Crapes is phenomenal in the Jim Jarmish movie. Arvish movie. I'm just, I'm just I'm sorry. I'll, I should break down and see it. Nina Haas for Hedda, no.

She was great. She was good. I mean, I felt like very menacing and tragic. I'm like, oh, she's really going for this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's big. Like all the well, it's funny because it's such a busty part. And I'm like, well, what is the bustiness about here? And this is like, to me, all that chestiness is like full emotional

exposure. And just like the amount of crying is sort of proportional to the amount of bust. It just also, she's never acted like that in anything before. I've never seen her. I've never seen her. I've never seen her give her performance like that. Totally. She's usually much more restrained. Yeah,

I just, I loved it. Like the damn burst. Yeah. Oh boy. It's a tough one. This is a loaded category. I would just want to make a note for Vrang, Una Chaplin from Avatar. That's a Navi that I'm interested. in? Yeah, I

A lot of hips going on there. Wait, is she is she the she's the like the bad lady? Okay, that she's good. That's good. That's good. A lot of good choices. Yeah. That she makes.

I mean, Tanya Maria's really this. This should be, this is the real supporting actress category right here. I'm sorry with all due respect. We picked a good one. This is, this is the Okay, Tanya Maria is going to win. Great. Tanya. Best actor

Benicio del Toro for the Phoenician scheme Li Bianhan for no other choice Josh O'Connor for Wake Up Deadman and the Mastermind Ben Wishaw for Peter Hoosier's Day Harry Melling for Pillion and Jesse Plymouth's for Bagonia This is a good one

I would love to hear you guys talk about Josh O'Connor but only in one movie and that's the Kelly Wighthart movie. The Mastermind? It's my favorite of his performances. Yeah, I would agree with that. Still not enough there for me,

but the character is really good. And, you know, well, we'll talk about the movie itself later if we want, but... The scintillating indictment of all men from Kelly Rikert. Yeah. No, I mean, I think, but I think the character is stronger

than the performance in a way. What are my, Harry Melling? Mm-hmm. What's my other option? Plymins, Ben Wischaw. Oh, Ben, listen, what a hard job. That movie, what is he just speaking a transcript on a sofa and on a roof? Yep.

It's... I like that movie. I love that movie. It's short and sweet. She's also really good, Rebecca Hall, that she decides to do the accent. I don't know. I just love the... quiet

intellectual subtlety of this film it's the assumption that you would understand what they're talking about which is a really good choice like we're plunging you into New York

the New York art world in the 80s I'm there but he's just such a I've never seen him like this before like not neurotic yeah I was going to say he's more like confident like brazen almost yeah yes this is a version of

that I really like and I'm I mean I'm a fan he's Paddington he's Q wait he's he's the voice of Paddington he's the voice of Paddington it's it's wonderful yeah have you not seen this I've seen them I didn't know Ben which doesn't that make it better who's who's winning this category okay well yeah I guess so you learn something new every day That's why I listen to this show. Okay, so you're out on Josh O'Connor. I'm not out. I just feel like...

Is that where your heart was leaning? Well, no, he just, he brought it up and he's like, I want to hear you talk about it. Oh, wait. How are we not talking about Lee Bjohn? Yeah. Like, what are we doing? He would be my pick. Yes.

So come on. This guy leaves it all out there. Impossible performance. You should hate him, but you kind of can't because, like, what would you do? Yes. Right. Well, I probably wouldn't create a fake paper company to then get job applications from all my enemies and kill them. That isn't something that I

personally would do. Oh, he's so, like, it's funny and stressful. That's the thing. It's funny and stressful. It's dramatic performance that is very funny. Slapstick, a lot of perspective stuff that is great. I want to leave you and hon. I thought he had a weird outside chance to get

in here and the time he did not. The Academy just is not interested in this film or in Parktown Wock. Don't really know. Not can though. He'll get his chance. The president of at the Cannes Film Festival this year of the jury. Oh, this year?

Yeah. Park Chan Wook. Oh, Park Tan Wook. Yeah. That took long enough. Yeah. I'm surprised it hasn't happened before. I agree. He's never been on the jury?

No. And he, I think Old Boy was the first movie he had there. I think he's had like five movies there. Yeah, I'm surprised he's never been on the jury at all. Okay, best actress. Julia Roberts for After the Hunt. Amanda Seifred for the Housemaid and the Testament of An Lee. Susan Shardy for On Becoming a Guinea Fowl.

Jennifer Lawrence for Die My Love. Kathleen Shalfant. for familiar touch. And I put Anna da Armist for Eden. Okay, let's talk about Julia. I put it on just to talk to you about it. I mean, I think she's good in this, in this absolute mystery of a film.

Very good in a movie that has no idea why it exists. Why does it exist? I fully agreed. Can you explain the last scene of After the Hunt to us? Like, what is your interpretation? Of her in the hospital bed? Oh, no, no, no. reunion scene.

In my old Indian jammy. Is that your spot? That was my spot. Wow. I mean, it's pretty good too. I'm surprised they didn't change it into something else, too. It's just what it is. It's weird because did you see the VFX real?

The movie set in New Haven, Connecticut at Yale University. Did you see the way that they rebuilt the campus with VFX? I read a very good piece of art criticism by a guy named, I think Chris Hawthor and Christopher Oh yeah, sure. Long-time architecture credits. He wrote about this movie. He wrote about the Woody Allen opening credits. Right. The real flex. And like the way the movie recreates Yale

somewhere else. It's interesting that they did that, but they used the restaurant. It's been noted that the restaurant is like that's a known place. It's a real place. Anyway, I don't, well, that's funny. I have a hard time loving, I love this. performance, but everything about it, everything else about it is so

false and unsure of itself that her confidence in a weird way, for as good as I can isolate it from the badness of the movie, but then it kind of makes the movie worse because it means that she was probably left to direct

herself. I think she just had a real handle on this character and made like all the choices that she wanted to make and she's powerful enough to be like, this is how I'm going to do this, But then there were a lot of other actors who are not, I think Garfield's pretty good in it. He's not bad.

He's not bad. But it's not a good part. The part is bad. Yeah, I agree. He's making the most of a really shitty part. I know. He's kind of like a series of talking points. He's not really like a person.

I think Chloe 70 is great. She is too. She's wonderful. At the scene with them at the bar talking about the Smiths. A thing that has never happened ever either. Like, you're two, two very popular professors

just chilling in the dot, one of the New Haven dive bar didn't, never happen. I agree. The whole, the script is a force. I mean, are all New Haven professor, or Yale professors living like that because that apartment was. Yeah, there's some people who can do that. It's quite stylish.

I've thought a lot about, well, listen. It's achievable. Get back into the classics. Oh, you mean her house? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And her apartment. Oh, yeah, that's easy. That's just like, there's like a, there's like three streets where that can happen.

Okay. That's easy. That's easy. The stripes. It's not a stretch. Is Julia winning this category? Well, wait, hold on. I mean...

You groaned at Jennifer Lawrence. Kathleen Shalfant. Yeah. I liked familiar touch. Exquisite. Yeah. Exquisite. Like, the idea that there weren't enough actors

who saw her give this performance is such a bummer to me. Did she win New York Film Critics Circle? What did she won something for this? She did. She did win a prize. What prize did she win for this? Huh.

That's very sweet. She definitely won a Critics Prize that was an early, like, we're giving this. We're shining a light on this. Oh, all right. Well, that's good. Yeah. But it got, I mean, it was a very small release in May.

Not a lot of people saw it. I think it's a very good film. Very good movie. Very well directed. Really well written. And she is so good. National Society of Film Critics. Oh, good for them.

Good for them. I... Can we talk about Seiford real quick? And also, I think she won the Horizonte Award at Venice, her best actress. There you go. Now, the House made... I think she's very amusing in. know that I would put it up in any real awards race.

Anne Lee, I think she's fucking firing. I loved it. Go on. Okay. It's a no. Wait, did I miss the Anne Lee episode? Yeah. All right, I'll go back.

It was a relatively brief conversation. You don't have to do it here. I will find it because. We both liked it. We thought it was, like, again, I saw it, like, at Venice with no context or whatever besides knowing that it was Mona Fasbold and Brady Corbe. and was surprised and found it to be like the other half of the or the other perspective of the brutalist, but in a way that made more sense to me or where they connected the dots a bit more while also being really weird.

Like that I really liked the music and the choreography. I thought that it communicated. I think it's a crazy performance too. It's like it's very physical with all the birthing stuff that is very traumatic and the physical abuse plus the singing and the choreography and dancing that she has to do. You know, the whole movie is on her face the whole time. I think it's like a major, major performance. I loved it. I love her. I've always loved her as an actor. I like when she challenges herself. The housemaid is her not really challenging herself. It's a paycheck job. She should have also been nominated for most fun had in a movie.

Amanda Seifred. Me too. Really? And I love the idea of Brady Corbea and Mona Fastfold. I mean, I love the Bruella's. So it's not even like so much. much the idea. I love the work. This one... You couldn't get into it. I just felt like it's trying so hard to not be that shaker movie

that it's the other shaker movie and it's so the other shaker movie that I couldn't get my heart, mind even my eyes sometimes all the way around it and I just in every

with each passing scene I felt more alienated by it. I also wish they had not cast anybody I recognized because none of the other actors have anything to do. So I'm like, well, where'd Christopher Abbott go? Like, I'm kind of interested in him

as an actor. And now I'm like, is he coming back? Where'd he go? So if it had just been her in a role of all men. Right. Yeah. Yeah, I just... Except for Lewis Paulman. Yes. Who is in the role of... A faithful brother. Yeah. Nice brother. I just, I really... This movie really

kept pushing me out of the theater so hard. Could not disagree with you. I know. Do you think any of that's like a Pennsylvania thing? Don't the Shakers have a presence in Pennsylvania? I mean, I'm sure the Shakers must, you know, in that core. It just wasn't, I don't, the Shakers are not a part of my child. I was not at all familiar.

I didn't know that it was shaking Quakers until this movie. Oh, interesting. So you guys like learned? Yes. Yeah. It wasn't about that. To me, it was a, I'm, I find most. Modern musical is quite tedious

and I thought this was a fascinating reinvention of what to expect for that. This is such a easy pitch for me. And was like people who are ecstatically performing their faith as opposed to what I observed as a person going to Catholic Church in the suburbs in the 1980s. This was moving.

Honestly, fascinating. And also like, I really like that Anne Lee on paper very much seems like a cuck. Very much seems like a cultist. And that the movie does not engage with that. But it's in there. But it is a very,

it is a very non-judgmental portrayal of the events of her life in a way that I find interesting. We have to keep going. Yeah. Who are we picking in this category? I'm going with Kathleen Shelf. Even though the critics already gave out the,

and you just, you rolled your eyes at Jennifer Lawrence. It's a no for you. Oh. Okay. Well. What an embarrassment. That whole movie is.

I loved it. I loved it. And you know what? I saw it on a date with Zach and we were both cracking up. And we were just like, rock on to the movie. No, because I was postpartum at the when I saw it. I was like, yeah. I really want to be respectful to that experience. You, you do you.

This is one of the most embarrassing uses of two good actors I have ever seen. They are in acting class 101 and the instructor is like out and we are watching this. of because I mean some of the things that happen here I'm like this is really a thing that happens in acting class on your first day

right where you crawl around I just I was so embarrassed for these people I a primal expression of motherhood and I watched and I what was

I watched what was the one before this is Jennifer Lawrence movie no hard feeling I love that movie and it's the same it's kind of the same like feet of

not giving a fuck, right? I love that movie so much more because she was giving so much more to a movie that really didn't need it. And this movie is taking so much from her and giving us nothing.

Siphoning your life force. Also like a baby. Yeah. Siphoning your mental wellness. So then she just married to this cute tall guy who brings home a dog for no reason. And he's such a dick. I just, I really. is really actively dislike this meeting. I think you're actually weirdly agreeing about the film's success.

I fall right in the middle of the two of you. Julia Roberts. Julia Roberts. Julia Roberts. Another piece of hardware for Julia Roberts. Okay, last two categories. She only has one. It's not enough.

She has like 14 Golden Globes. That doesn't really count. Okay, best director. What if she sent them back? Like Tom Cruise. We don't know. Did he send his back? Really?

Yeah. After the HFPA scandal. Okay, best director. For him. Mona Fastfold for the Testament of Anley. Stephen Soderberg for BlackBagley. Kelly Reichard for the mastermind. Claibor Mendoza Filio for the secret agent. Park Chan Wook for no other choice. Jafar Panahi for it was just an accident. Jafar Panahi. It was just an accident. Not honorary, but like I guess I'm outvoted. I mean, not an honorary. But like I guess I'm outvoted. I mean, listen. Let's just let's have the conversation.

What happened to this wonderful film that has just been absolutely overlooked? I think that at some point, it's got- Read a newspaper, guys. But that's not the reason. I know, it's not. Because I think the thing that works about this movie is it's applicable to all moments in time of human history. Yes. I also think that it is specifically obviously about Iran.

but I just really I love this movie I just can pick one person I'm picking Mengerza because he he made the movie that to me of these people was the most difficult

to pull off right this is operating in a kind of like narrative and moral and political swamp he has found a real light on the

boat that takes you across the hell river I think Jafar Panahi, I think that script is really the achievement there. Also, like, he's very good at directing those actors. Yeah. I think that Kelly Reichardt's achievement with the mastermind is the script. That is the single best movie ending of the year, I think. I was going to say we should have put it in ending.

Do we want to go back and take it from begonia and give it to the mastermind? The mastermind? It's so good. I know. The ending of the movie. Mastermind is... Well, what was that all for? Yeah.

I mean, just wonderful, wonderful, wonderful, wonderful ending. So if you haven't seen the masterminds on Mooby right now, I would highly encourage people to check it out. But I think that I'm going to say that that, that, that, that, that, I'm fine with that. Fylafeu Mendoza is your winner. I agree. This is a very strong category. People who've never acted before. Hearing, you know, you guys talking about Panahi, it occurs to me that even though we all we do is talk about the International Academy, right?

It's become very European in the last 10 years and increasingly South American. And Brazilian films are really getting their due right now. We've seen some of the Pablo Lorraine films from Chile get some love. There have never been a film from the Middle East or film from Africa nominated for Best Picture in the History of the Academy Awards. Very notable. I mean, I think they probably think they got it done without Africa. They can cross it off the list. I wonder if that is the next phase,

that it's almost like the Academy is not really as familiar with Panahi's work. And they don't have the same level of legacy. And like, you know, maybe they haven't seen all the Kirstami films. They don't know about the Iranian New Wave. They're not into that history. I mean, but there's like still several. I mean, they're like the West Africans, the Black French. Mm-hmm.

the Iranians although I mean what are we talking about now right I mean you know there's like Tunisian cinema you know there's all kinds of places there are still the Romanians like I mean one of those guys is going to have a moment um I don't know this is an interesting way to think about what like how much bigger the tent has to get well like my father's shadow which is a a Nigerian British film, um, is set in Lagos. Like it is,

it is, it's an, it's an African movie. Right. And it's like very well reviewed and was represented at Bafta, but like has, it never even had a moment in any Oscar conversation.

And I, I'm just pointing it out. No, no. I mean, it's worth noting. I think that is to come, I believe.

It'll take, it feels like it. It might be a decade or two before they really get around to all of that. Because it's a lot of history that most Western film lovers are just not as informed about. And so they don't feel the same sense of, well, we have to recognize Panahi's achievements

because, you know, they didn't see taxi or whatever or forget about the films that he made in the 90s and 2000s. Like, there's, there's a masterpiece, one of his, he's made many movies. Several masterpieces. Okay. Last category. Best picture. So we got to get out of here.

The nominees are BlackBag, Eddington. Dime I love. It was just an accident. no other choice. The mastermind, the Phoenician scheme, sorry baby, the testament of Anne Lee, and weapons.

I have no idea what's winning here. Okay. This is easy for me. Go ahead. Weapons. It seems like there probably is the most agreement. This is probably the film that has the highest number of votes to get into best picture in the academy that didn't make it.

That would be my guess. Yeah. Weapons. Maybe it was just an accident. Is it there too? Or no. Well, no other choice. No other choice.

just gotten dinged everywhere. I know. I would pick no other choice. No other choice was my third favorite movie of the year. I love no other choice. I love no other choice. I just, I also just, I mean, I've seen Park Chan-Wook do that before.

Sure. Yeah. I think that's been the biggest criticism of it. If you've seen his movies, you know that this is just him returning to form. It's not him transcending the form he returned to. That is a very fair, fair take. I think that weapons was. The form by.

the way that you're referring to is of one of the 15 greatest filmmakers on earth. Like, it's not as though he's returning to form which is a piece of shit. Oh, no. Like, the movie is still very good. But I mean, this movie is not better than, you know, the first four.

I like it. But I really, really love it. I mean, it's as good as. It's as good as. I think it's in like, I think it's like A minus territory. And he has a couple of A movies, right? He has old boy. He has handmade and he has a couple of like A movies. I also don't love the ending. I think that everything is,

everything about this movie is note perfect until you get to the dismount. Also, once again, AI. Yeah. That last shot. Oh, oh, yes. Oh, yeah. I mean, weapons, weapons.

Where do you lean? I think no other choice. It was just an accident. Weapons are probably like the consistent. consensus things here. Like, if you were on the Eddington train, I might put, but you're not. I'm really not. You know?

And it's all about consensus. That's my number two movie of the year. I knew that. I knew that. I knew that. I knew that. I really liked it. I love listening.

I love listening to people. I love, I've not read, I've not read enough about this movie. But I've heard, you know, I've heard enough. It is just like, it is the, the dark vampiric truth of how the world is. And the Paramount Warner Brothers thing that we cleared our throat about for three hours ago is like

it's all there, man. Yeah, no, it's true. I mean, it might warrant me rewatching it under the circumstances, but I mean, for our purposes today, I'm going to say... I'm good with weapons. I'm going to say weapons.

Sorry, Mr. Panahi. I think weapons is an absolutely wonderful winner because it's a movie that would never win Best Picture at the Academy Awards. And that's why it deserves its love here. How do you feel about this exercise?

Good? Yeah. I love it. Good? I love talking to you guys. We solved everything. Figuring it all out. Yeah. I'm going to work in Paramount, guys.

Just the heads out. Sorry, my last episode. Thanks, everybody. Hey, Jack, thank you so much for everything. I'll see you never again. Okay, buddy. Got to go join the Ellison Army. Whoa.

Yeah. I mean, I guess we can do this. You guys can do this. Congratulations. You've been elevated from third chair. Oh, my gosh. second chair. You did it.

You did it. Get canned under the, under the, I mean, although we get to stay here until, until y'all buy us or buy us,

buy us, by us, in my first act as paramount. Chief, I will be buying Spotify. You buy the New York Times and you buy Spotify.

Oh, boy. Hey guys, it's Sean. The big pictures canceled. Wesley Moore, thank you. We can find you in the New York Times. We can find you

on your show Cannonball, which I highly encourage people to listen to. Where else can we find you? That's it. Okay. Home? Well, hopefully they don't find your home.

Traveling with my man. I don't know. Where are you going next? Lima, Peru. Wow. Yeah, my best friend and his wife, who's also my very good friend, they live there. They live there for years. This is their last year before they move somewhere else.

And so my annual trips to Lima are going to come to. Oh, that sounds awesome. I'm very sad about it, but I'm going to go for one last. A great eating city. I have the best time. Yeah, I'm jealous. one of the great cities to dine in in the world. I've never been to South America.

I've really want to go. Help yourself. Lima is a great place to start. Interesting. Amanda, thank you. Do you feel like you've done yeoman's work today? Yo woman's work? Sure.

I think I got my major points across, you know? Which is all you can hope for. Thanks for producer Jack Sanders for his work on this episode. Thanks to Lucas Kavanaugh for production support. Thanks, Jack and Lucas. Later this week, here comes the bride. We'll see you then.