The Big Picture - The 21st-Century Steven Spielberg Rankings. Plus: ‘Office Romance’ and ‘The Furious.’

Episode Date: June 16, 2026

On today’s show, Sean and Amanda dive deep into legendary filmmaker Steven Spielberg’s filmography throughout the 21st century. Before discussing those movies, they celebrate the New York Knicks becoming NBA champions, a feat so magnificent that Sean swears he’s become a changed man. Next, they briefly touch on the overperformance of ‘Disclosure Day’ at the box office on opening weekend and cover two wildly different recent releases: ‘Office Romance’ and ‘The Furious.’ Then, they share some secondary thoughts about ‘Disclosure Day’ and react to the divisive response to the film thus far. Finally, they explore Spielberg’s 21st-century filmography and identify some key touchpoints and ideas before ranking every film he’s made this century. (0:00) Intro (0:36) The New York Knicks are NBA champions (9:10) ‘Disclosure Day’ box office performance (12:08) ‘Office Romance’ (24:05) ‘The Furious’ (26:53) Secondary ‘Disclosure Day’ thoughts and the divisive audience response (43:17) Steven Spielberg’s 21st-century filmography (1:15:34) The 21st-Century Steven Spielberg Rankings Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Producer: Jack Sanders Production Support: Lucas Cavanagh Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Sean Fennacy. I'm Amanda Navin. And this is the big picture, a conversation show about Spielberg and review on today's show. In the aftermath of Disclosure Day, we are looking at the film's reception, the 21st century output of Steven Spielberg, and a couple of new movie releases. But first, let's talk about some movie news and some other news right after this. Okay, Amanda, we did it. It's your time. NBA champion, New York Mix.

I haven't really talked with you about this. We haven't spoken. We talked briefly before we recorded. I was watching. I was thinking of you. Very excited for you. Thank you. Thank you.

But I honor that by giving you your distance and your space to podcast with Zach Lowe and others. Yes, I was fortunate to go on the Zach Lowe show yesterday afternoon to talk about my experience with the last couple of games in this series and to bask in the glory of the victory. Let's set the scene. So you watched again at home. Same setup? Same deal. Yeah. Well, actually, I ended game four watching in my bedroom.

And so I felt like I had to start game five watching in my bedroom. Okay. And then, but that meant that Alice was frequently coming into the bedroom to watch the game with me. Okay. And because we were having this experience together throughout this series, it was very important to me. I actually effectively sent her away in the fourth quarter. Okay. Because she was having a hard time listening.

And then with two minutes left, she got to come back. Oh, that's nice. And so we got to watch the end of the game together. And listen, you know, I'm 43. I'm a lifelong Knicks fan. I'm a really sad sports fan. I have not talked about the Knicks a lot on this show over the years. It's really only in the last three and a half years or so that they have,

transformed their identity. Yeah. And I love the team and I'm really proud of the team. And I said it on Zach's show and I'll say it here. I do feel different. I feel like I changed. And I... This is what we were waiting for.

This is the missing piece. I think so. I think I'm not actually a very angry person. I can be a little resentful. And I can be very touchy sometimes when somebody comes after me. And you are very cynical. I am, but that doesn't... I'm not mad about that.

I think there's a kind of acceptance around my cynicism. So now the anger has really eroded because that was the primary place for my personal anger was around sports. Yeah. And I said to Zach, I felt very fearful and embittered watching sports over the years. And I felt it all fall away when they won. I was really just so genuinely happy. Okay. And I think it's going to change even more in my life.

I mean, you know, we've got a great situation here and things are going wonderfully. But like the fact that I felt even better, I'm confused. I said to you after game four, like I don't know what to do with myself. Yeah. I actually do know what to do with myself, which is to just go forward and try to be even more happy. That's what this gave me the ability to do. And so I'm just, I'm really pleased. I'm really, really pleased.

It's lovely and also a little weird. I know, I know. And it is a little bit like when Alice was born and you were really happy and changed. Like, I understood. I was moved to. It is similar. No, I know. But that, I get it.

I mean, I live with a fellow psycho sports fan. You know, I'm surrounded by them at all times. And when I spoke to Zach, when I spoke to Zach Lowe, I cited my Philly friends and the change that they had. And I saw,

I saw them win, I saw the eagle in your house. And I saw the exultation, the jubilation that they had when that one. And I was happy for them. And I was looking at them. And I was like, when will it be my time?

Did you? Did you also drink an insane amount of brown liquor very quickly and then throw it up? I didn't. I have drank. I'm okay. I think I've had 39 beers through the five games of the series, which every morning has kicked my ass the next day. Because then you're like, well, child care for the next 14 hours. Good luck.

But listen, the deep conversations about the games and stuff are on the Zach Lopod, but it really, really helps that the team itself was just really, really likable and was really together and never flinched, never blinked. And they went on this unbelievable run through the playoffs, 16 and 3, which it didn't feel that way in the finals because all the games were so close. It didn't feel like they were some dominant team. Right. And that, well, in the fourth quarter of every game it did. True. Which is, I would like to understand, maybe I'll start listening to basketball podcast to understand, like, what is going on in terms of.

It's hard to explain. The inexperience of the Spurs and the incredible veteran. qualities of the Knicks was an amazing clash. Zach and I talked a little bit about whether or not the Knicks were kind of intentionally baiting the spurs into playing too hard in the first half of every game. Oh, interesting. Because you could just see them completely run out of gas in the last four games especially. But, you know, I said it before, like I hate Wembe.

I was happy to see him embarrassed. I make no bones about it. I really came to despise him and then see him as an arch villain of the league. He has a lot of growing up to do. I do fear him, though. He's incredibly gifted. But, um... Okay.

Jalen Brunston forever. I spent $500 on Kith Nick's gear on Saturday night. You know, like that's where I'm at. Good. Well, so this t-shirt is not new. No, I've had this for a while. Yeah, but it's... I like the design.

I would have liked to see some of, you know, the merch design before you bought it just for approval. You'll see it soon when I'm wearing it on this podcast. Right. That's the thing is I've never had the opportunity to buy that kind of gear. There is a Ben Stiller documentary that was being a cast. There is some film intersection with this Nick's victory that we can talk about briefly. Josh Safty was there. Josh Safty was there.

Josh Safty directed the Nike commercial that aired almost immediately after this championship, which is a truly amazing Nike commercial that made me feel like I was watching a Mars Blackman Jordan commercial or one of those like famous dribbling commercials that Nike used to do or the gang star commercials that had like Darius Miles from the 1990s. Like, I have all these great personal memories of loving Nike basketball commercials. And we just got one instantaneously directed by one of my favorite directors who is a true blue Knicks fan and a true blue New Yorker. So stuff like that was happening. And then Stiller has been making a documentary about this team.

So that's crazy. Also, I mean, Spike Lee was like there in the building. He and John Totoro in matching orange, which was so awesome. Very sweet. And Tatar went to every game and he was flying to San Antonio. That part was great. And then, Shalemi. Yeah.

And he said I would rather this than the Oscars after they won. I mean, so did Bradley Cooper after the Super Bowl. And like, we know that that's a line planted. But it's fine. Listen, I will be, it will be me, Kylie Jenner and Timmy very awkwardly together on Chalemay Island. And I won't be involved in anything. I mean, I'll never leave him.

I'll never leave him. He and I are good for life. We're good for life because that was that was special. We went through that together. And yeah, man. So I'm doing great. Congratulations. It was fun. I enjoyed watching it. And I mean, again, it was just, it was one of those that got so big. Shout out New York. You know? It did. It did. They took over and it seemed like it was mostly safe and jubilant. And I had a lot of FOMO and I have a lot of friends still in New York and I would have liked to have been there. But my own superstition kept me very tightly on my couch. And I feel good about the choices that I made.

Yeah. And like I said, I said this to Zach, but just watching it with Alice, there's nothing like it. And the thing that I said was I was four years old when the New York Mets won in 19. 86, but I don't remember it. And I don't remember somebody saying to me, don't forget this. And my daughter is not yet five. She's about to turn five, but she's still four. And about a minute after they won, I picked her up and I pointed at the screen. And I said, remember this. This happened to me when I was your age, and I don't remember. And just cherish this moment. It may not happen again. You don't know. It might not happen again. And so, one, her getting on board with Nick's fandom is such a win. And to have that together was really, really cool. So, and also, honestly, I think Eileen will just be a much happier person too, because she doesn't have to deal with the insane storm cloud that I bring to every Sunday with the Jets, to every afternoon with the Mets games.

Like, I do feel like I can let go of some of that stuff. And I told Jack Sanders, Mets and Jets are next. This can happen now. The cynicism can fall away. That's what I'm weirded out by. I don't know what to do when you're, you know, open-hearted and fuzzy about everything. In January, I was like, well, this NIC's team is going to get knocked out. in the first round of the playoffs.

Okay. When the Knicks were down to one of the Hawks seven weeks ago, I was like, sheesh. They might lose and Mike Brown might get fired. And then where the hell are we? Are we trading cat? Are we going after Janus? I really thought that could happen. That was seven weeks ago.

Okay. So, right. Well, sure. But also what that teaches me is that, you know, life's a roller coaster. And so are you. But I'm happy for this moment. Okay. Thank you to the listeners of this show for tolerating these recent Knicks conversations.

I try to not get two sports brained on this. on this show, but it was necessary here. No, it was a big deal. It was a big deal. Okay, let's go to the movie stuff. Okay. We'll do the box office quickly. Disclosure Day,

relatively overperformed at the box office. It was about in the zone that you and I discussed on Friday's podcast, where we said we thought it would be low 40s, I think. It was projected to be about 35 million. Most projections are usually under. This one went to 44 domestically, and it went to 93 million globally, which is pretty darn good. Also, our peers went. The old crowd.

Yes. 59% of the audience was over 34. Yeah. And so I think that that walk-up power of the olds who know the name Steven Spielberg really held here. Feels like maybe this movie didn't totally resonate with the 20-somethings or gen Alpha. We're going to talk about that a little bit later. Fine. They can, they did go see Obsession once again. They did.

And thank you to them. Box Office is thriving. A few people have noted this. This movie Crossing 40 Million Means there's a very good chance that I think we're going to get something like 10 consecutive weekends. of a movie opening at 40 million. That's bonkers. That's old school 2018 box office stuff. So this great year that we've been having continues on.

This is Spielberg's first summer hit in a really, really long time. I think basically since Minority Report, this is the first time he's had like a proper summer blockbuster. Because he's had some sequels, he's had some spring releases, some fall releases, some winter releases. But, you know, like the BFG was not a big hit in the way that this movie is. What about War of the Worlds?

War of the Worlds was a December film, I think. I'm looking at this right now, and it says June 29. Maybe that's the one I'm thinking of. June 29 for War the Worlds? I'm looking at Wikipedia. I'll take that. I'm just, you know, in terms of big blockbuster. It was Munich that was December that year.

You're right. Ah, that's right. The doublehead. I had two films in 2005. We'll get into those films a little later in this conversation. I did have the thought. I wonder if this is the last commercial film that Spielberg attempts, you know, when we were at South by Southwest together, he said he was working on a Western film.

Western's not historically in the last 40 years, the most commercial of enterprises. And he was really, you know, he seemed very comfortable in the Fableman's and West Side story, exploring stories he felt he really needed to tell over long periods of time. A Western would be something similar. This was his, I Can Still Bring the World Together with a movie attempt. And it pretty much got there. I think it's going to have a drop next weekend. But I don't know, any surprises to you about how this did?

No, I mean, I was pleased. I was pleased both that it beat the underwhelming tracking numbers and also that it seemed to do pretty well internationally. Yeah. And that it was noisy, which, you know, is good. It's just nice that Spielberg can still, like, really bring it, which you and I know that he can. But, and I have loved all his last movies, but we haven't had something this, like, big and commercial in a while. Yeah, he commanded the movie conversation for three straight days, for sure. We'll do some second thoughts on the movie shortly,

but I did want to hit a couple of new movies that came out. I saw both of them. I fired up office romance. As did I. On Friday night. Eileen and I watched it. Full disclosure, Eileen fell asleep. I did not fall asleep.

I was fascinated by this. This is a classic Netflix movie that went to number one on its ratings, and everyone watched it, logged all over the place on Letterbox. And I was like, okay, I was streaming. Lopez movie. I've seen these before. But it does have some interesting bona fides to it. So it's directed by All Parker, who directed Mamma Mia, Here We Go again, and Ticket to Paradise, the George Clooney Julia Roberts vehicle. It's written by Brett Goldstein, who people may know from Ted Lassow.

Goldstein also is the star of the movie alongside Lopez. And it's about a, what is it about, Amanda? Tell us what office romance is about. So Jennifer Lopez plays a CEO of an airline. A discount airline of sorts? Air Cruz. And she meets the in-house counsel, played by Brett Goldstein, and they have a spark. But also her airline has very draconian anti-fraudernization loss, so they can't open themselves up to love. And also she might lose the airline because lawyers. Yeah. She's the heir to this airline.

Her father was the founder of this airline. And the movie is basically just Brett Goldstein and J.Lo want to fuck. Yeah. But they can't because if they do, it will threaten her ability to own an airline. Right. Not the most relatable premise for a film that I've ever seen. I will say, I kind of enjoyed this movie. Way more than I thought I would.

The script is not bad. It's not bad. And the Brett Goldstein of it all, you know, I liked the first season of Ted Lasso, not the second season once it got, you know, sad and about therapy. We agree on that. But he's charming. They have decent chemistry-ish. The one-liners or the moment-to-moment of it are very good. Yeah.

I think the situation could use some enhancement. And then, I mean, because it's just very silly. Yeah, the premise is really silly. I mean, listen, romantic comedies, like all other genres are about world building. And this world building is very small and very budget airline, which is why I said that Air Cruise is budget. Forgive me if it's, you know, the new air to Delta. That wasn't really giving Delta one, but that's okay.

The other thing about this is this movie is like very clearly and. forwardly set in New Jersey with the skyline of New York and all the many other great romantic comedies actually set in the city of New York looming over it. And it just like you could feel the tax credits

in real time. Like you just you know Netflix is building a new studio in New Jersey and you just could feel all the ways in which the money was not being spent on this movie but being funneled back to other stuff.

most specifically in the production design of Jennifer Lopez's bedroom, which what in the anthropology AI was that? I honestly paused and rewound to photograph and zoom in on this bedspread and what's headboard? The color scheme was like it was not Nick's orange and blue. It was like a teal and like burnt orange. I just watched you rub your leg out of anxiety. That was amazing.

You're like you just, you kind of just lost it there for a second, thinking about that headboard. But it was like, it was like plastic woven. I don't even know what they're trying to invoke. Like what are they saying with this? Is that she's still living in her parents like 70s,

glamour, like set. But then there's like the bookshelf that they're trying to. to intimate that she's a reader, but it's an ugly bookshelf. It's definitely IKEA. At least they haven't color-coordinated the books. I was very, very upset by this. And this, to me, just the level of the shortcuts and like the cost centers that are being moved around in real time on this.

You can feel it. I obviously don't care about those things as much in a movie like this. I'm not paying as close attention to them. It did feel like this was a movie that if this were 1998, it would be immaculate. It would be filmed by like, you know, Vilma Zigsman and it would have like extraordinary production design and costumes. Right. Because the script is like not bad. Okay.

It's not bad. And the direction is not bad. Like it is like, but it is like it's a streaming movie. Like it has that like it's a streaming movie. I would say also the script and specifically like the CEO quality of her of her work life is pretty under base. And I think in an older, in a 1998 movie, both because of like money and time spent on scripts and also I think because of our concept of girl bosses, that it would be a bit more developed. It would make a little more sense, you know? Even this was quite silly.

It was very silly. I think the movie has really helped by having a wildly overqualified supporting cast. It's crazy. Edward James almost plays her father. Bradley Whitford plays Brett Goldstein's boss. Tony Hale plays the head of HR. Jody Whitaker, the British actress, plays Goldstein's imprisoned sister. Right. And then the coup de grace is my girl Betty Gilpin.

Honestly. Who's so good in the movie. A hundred miles an hour. I love her. Just absolutely amazing. She's having a great moment. She was just on Widows Bay a couple of weeks ago. And she's, I cited this on Letterbox.

I'm not afraid to say it now. Pregnant Betty Gilpin wearing sweat. sweater vests was hotter to me than J-Lo in this movie. And J-Lo was on fire in this movie. It looks amazing in this movie. Very silly movie, but I was not mad that I watched this. A lot of times I fire up a movie like this and I get 20 minutes in and I'm like, why did I even try? I was angry.

Just because I know, not, like, I know what it could have been. You got to get a mixed championship in your life. No, no, no, no. It's just this is, when you watch garbage versions of the thing that you like, you're just like, this isn't good enough. I get it. And like, and I can, I can see that it's not good. enough and you guys aren't really trying. And, and they were trying. Brett Goldstein, very good script, like, pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. But the stuff around the edges is not good.

It's not good enough. And they just, they think that we'll accept them cutting corners. And I don't accept it. That's it. Before Eileen fell asleep, we did start doing the Jennifer Lopez Hall of Fame. Yeah. We were going through her movies while we were watching the movie. And it's a really weird filmography. And it would make for an interesting episode of the show, it's really hard to get to 10 movies where you really feel like good. Let me do it off the top of my head. Yeah, Selena. That was the first one

Eileen said. She said, where the hell is Selena? We were looking at the most popular on Letterbox, and Selena was like 16. Listen,

Selena out of sight. Yep. Those are the two best, in my opinion. So, made in Manhattan is, like, has Ray Fines

and is obviously set in Manhattan. This was what I said as number three as well. But I rewatched it recently. It's like, it made me feel that inside.

Like, who you're laughing at at at Y is kind of is very outdated. I didn't love it. Wedding planner. Wedding planner, yes. Which I believe is set in San Francisco, but they actually stage real weddings.

So that's important. Okay. Gigli. Is that in the Hall of Fame? Listen, well, pop culturally. Terrible film. Culturally. Okay.

Hustlers. Yeah. I bet that but we jumped 20 years there. You're doing a while here. Thank you. All right. Listen. There's one you won't get.

Well, you don't know. And what's the one that has become? come a meme of the movie poster? The movie poster is a meme where it's like Jennifer Lopez has had enough. The name of the movie is enough. Yeah. Enough would be a meme potential. Enough is preposterous but not bad directed by Michael Apted.

Okay. Greatest love story ever told, which is the documentary of the making of. That's some Dobbin stuff, but okay. Okay. You, it is a fascinating document. Speaking of fascinating documents, Jennifer Lopez half times. The documentary. No, when she cries about not winning a Golden Globe.

I think about it once a week. Okay, but you're... There are other films. You want scripted. Okay. So what happened between... I mean, Jenny on the block music video? Well, that would be a good blue for you.

Yeah, we could do that. We were listening to Jenny from the block this week. We were listening a lot of New York rap in the house this week and to celebrate the Nix. Okay, good. I introduced Alice to DMX, big pun, Fat Joe, all the murder ink. catalog. Shoot, what else did we listen to? It was really, really inappropriate for her.

I can't remember. Keep going. DMX is pretty big in our house. You got to listen to the edited versions. It's true. Yeah, it's true. Because Knox has a book and, anyway. He's a DMX book? No, he has a book about musicians.

Yeah. DMX and Maria Carrey, we learned from that book. Okay, scripted Jennifer Lawrence performances is after 2005. You want me to give them to you, the two that I'm thinking of? Yeah. One is Anaconda.

Oh, sure. Which is her big action. Yes, of course. Yeah. And then the other one that I didn't think you would get, but it's very important a movie to me, the second DVD I ever received,

which was a gift from Eileen, when we were in high school, is the cell. I don't know. I don't remember this. You don't know what the cell is. No. The cell is a 2000 horror thriller.

Oh, this. Okay. About going into the month. mind of a serial killer. Sure. It's a beautifully staged movie by Tarcum Singe. And not like a perfect movie by any means,

but it was a big film at the time. And then after that, I don't know, it's like Jersey Girl, Shotgun Wedding, are you putting one of the Ice Age movies in there? You know what? Shotgun Wedding, not bad and better, I think, in many ways than office romance. It was kind of similar to this to me where I was like,

okay. But at least they went to some resort, you know? Right. And there's a great cameo at the end. I don't want to spoil it for people. Yeah. I mean, it's a little tricky. I love Oliver Stone's U-turn.

Sure. She's playing kind of a cliche character, kind of a cliche femme fatale on that. But anyway, very weird Hall of Fame. We had a hard time. We had a hard time. I had a big plan to try to go see the last digital circus and The Furious. I just didn't have time.

I was too worn down from the weekend. And we had the World Cup. We didn't even talk about the World Cup. Oh, yeah. And the U.S. winning 401, how amazing that was. What a crazy sports again. We got to do it on Friday. It's a noon game, but no school.

Yes. Eileen would like to see it outdoors somewhere. I don't know how that's going to work. Okay. We're in if we can find a place. We got to talk about heat and or a projection or projector. Yeah. She wants to see it with people.

Yeah. She wants to be in a public setting. How can we go to a, how can we go to a, big bar or a big outdoor gathering. At noon. At noon on Friday. Okay. I'm going to investigate.

So our agenda for after this podcast is number one, plan World Cup on Friday. Number two, plan our joint birthday party. Yes. You're spoiling that for the audience here. You're all invited. The Furious, very quickly, I cannot recommend a movie more than this movie. Kenji Tanagaki is the filmmaker. It's a pan-Asian martial arts movie that I think might be an instant classic.

and I had heard really, really strong early word. A couple of friends who really like fight movies. I told me to check this out. Shea Serrano, I know, hosted a special early screening of this movie in Texas. It's very similar to Taken or to... It actually is similar. Hold your breath here. To sound of freedom a bit because it's about child abduction and like a child...

A child ring in... I think it's Thailand. It's not really specified what country the movie takes place in. but there's a preamble where a journalist is investigating this child abduction ring and then she faces down these brutal child abductors. And then it cuts to a mute Chinese man who has an eight-year-old daughter who is trained. The man is trained in all kinds of martial arts. He's played by Ximeo and his daughter is abducted.

And then he has to go on a revenge to where Liam Neeson taken style to go get her back. Along the way, he encounters a journalist who is the husband of the journalist who we see in the opening scenes of the movie. And it turns out this journalist is also a bad motherfucking martial artist. And these two guys, the other guys played by Joe... Much like myself. The other guys played by Joe Taslim, who was in the Mortal Kombat movies, who's been in a bunch of martial arts movies over the last 10 years. He's a sick martial artist. And there's like four sequences in the movie that are just like, fuck yes.

These guys are beating the shit out of each other majestically. And I thought this movie was so fun Such a great audience movie People were cheering along And then late in the film There's a moment where the screen It's a five-way showdown There are five men facing each other

And the screen cuts into a five-way split screen Was on their eyes And like everybody just almost stood up And we're just like, yes! Movies! It was so great I had the best time with this movie I highly recommend people check it out You know, if you like the raid, it's like the raid without guns.

It's not a gun movie. It's almost entirely a hand-to-hand combat movie with some crazy weapons that are used. There's extraordinary use of ice in this movie that I've not seen before. Guys are getting hit in the head with bricks of concrete smashed over their head. It's very, very violent. It is not for kids. But I had a great time, so I wanted to give it just a quick moment on the show. Okay.

What a weekend for you. I know. I know. It was really, really nice. Friday did that, picked up Alice. You guys came over. U.S. one, Saturday, Nix one. And then you watched Office romance and didn't care about the bed spread.

No, and I didn't think about it once. Okay, let's go back to Disclosure Day momentarily. So you mentioned that it kicked up a bit of a storm in the world. You were seeing some reactions. I didn't talk to a ton of friends about the movie. I know you saw it a second time with your husband. I did. And heard from a couple friends.

And then also got asked by a lot of other friends like, oh, should I actually see it? You know, the civilians in my life. Yes. Thank you to them for going back to the movies. Yeah, but it was interesting to know what to say to them. Because my answer is yes, of course. But I think one friend was like, is it good? And I was like, I think so.

But also, you know. We were careful on Friday's episode to be like, who's going to be divisive? Yeah. You know? I said the word kooky within 15 seconds. And it is. It's real kooky.

And even it was fun sitting next to Zach, my husband, watching it. And I'm being like, hmm, I wonder how this is going to play. What'd you think? And he and my other friends, Hi, Maureen, were like very much like I enjoyed it as a film, the filmmaking, the thrill right of it all. Impeccable. But they have some notes. Well, sure. Does anyone believe in aliens as much as Steven Spielberg believes in aliens?

I'm not sure. Yeah. Well, we were very purposeful in talking about the movie and its literalization of the ideas. Yeah. And I have spent a little bit of time thinking about maybe some of the... of the more metaphorical readings you could put onto the movie, or even just like the inspirations for where this story came from, because a lot of it is rooted in,

this is a guy who believes aliens exist. And he is fascinated by telling those stories, and he's told them many times over the years about what their impact could be. And I think some people had a harder time with, I think what you fairly characterized as a kind of boomer mentality about the possibility of things, and that there is not just more,

more cynicism among younger audiences, but like maybe just a general disinterest in that kind of phenomenon. And it being able to withstand some of the struggles of the movie, you know, some of the dialogue, struggles of the movie, some of the characterization or lack thereof for some of the characters. To me, it's so hard to do these exercises with these late period films from these great filmmakers whose filmography I have a real working command of because I've spent so much time with their movies. But I think we had somewhat similar conversations about both the Irishman and Killers of the Far Moon, where we were like, boy, these movies are really in conversation with what fascinates these filmmakers and what define their work.

I do this with Clinyswood a lot where I'm like every movie that he makes now, I'm like, this is riffing on so many of the themes that he has done over the years. We talked about it with Megalopolis and that was a movie that to me didn't rise creatively to, I think a lot of the thematic standards that he had set. But some people disagreed. Like we were on the more negative end of that movie, but there were some people who were like, this is what it's all about, somebody taking a swing like this. So it waxes and wanes for people.

If people were like, I hate this, I understand. But it does feel it felt like the movie got in the discourse a little bit into the same zone as trap when that came out. We were like, this is so fun. This is Shamblant having a ball. But some people are like, worst movie I've ever seen, bro. And I'm like, worst movie you've ever seen? I mean, I think some of it is also, you know, to your point, this movie like escaped containment, which is good, right? Enough people saw it.

Spielberg went beyond even. I mean, he's Stephen Spielberg. It was a big deal when you podcasted with him, but there were the letterbox, you know, film devotees who have seen the movies who understand what this means. This is like part of a conversation, part of a career. And then there are just many people who are like, hey, I want to see an alien movie and it wasn't very good, you know? And so I saw a lot of that. And, you know, my response is always, please bore someone else with your opinions. But it's good, right?

That it is reaching a wider audience because that, like, Stilberg's, like can still make. it up. Yeah. And movies can still mix it up. But yes, I agree that much of their response was like, hey, the fox didn't look real. That was stupid. Which, by the way, the fox did not look real. It's not supposed to look real. Yeah. It's a generation of a memory. That's true. It's not a real fox. It's a, it's an alien in disguise. What are we arguing about? But it is distracting. Do people watch the movie? I watched it. Yes, it's true. But I bumped on that. We talked about it afterwards. And I was just like, why did they have to look like? that, even if they are meant to be a manifestation, you know, of a memory. And then that brings in some

interesting questions about the way that the movie, both certainly script-wise, but even visually, handles some of those flashbacks and some of the mythology around the two main characters, what is explained, what's not explained, what is implied. Yep. You know, that I found on a second watch, that's what didn't work for me. That's what I was still bumping on. I think all of the the religious and specifically the Christian undertones just seem jammed on and also extremely obvious

at the same time. They both seem extraneous and also super literal. In a way that I, you know, I understand this movie is trying to explore the nature of belief and faith and taking a leap of faith. But, you know, some of it is, suppose that all of those characters are just used for such obvious plot purposes. And also because I never respond to like deep exploration of faith in general at some point.

I enjoyed that stuff. Yeah. As a person who's kind of like working through a lot of those feelings in this stage of my life. Well, it's just there again, there is no mystery at the end of it. You know, they have the Eve Hewson character call and say like, do you believe that God loves only us? And the non-character is very clear. She's like, it's fine. She's like, of course, there's more.

Nothing to worry about. There is still no room for doubt or question in the script itself, which I understand is the point of the movie. The movie knows what it thinks. Yeah, a lot of people, I think, were quite frustrated by or at least confused by the ending and where the movie chose to end itself, which I think is very intentional. He's done this before. He's kind of like, you know, revisiting Munich was fascinating to watch the absolute, like, to just sit in the conflict of the moment and not have any resolution communicated to you.

I think that that's a dramatic strategy that older filmmakers are often more comfortable making than younger filmmakers who feel they need to explain everything all the time. But I do understand that people were like, well, what would have happened? Show me what would have happened. If there was this great incredible disclosure, I want to see the next day. You know, on the rewatchables, it's the Zwanayo Award for what happens the next day. Like, there is a desire to have a further exploration of that as opposed to the kind of intellectual and emotional catharsis that the movie is after and kind of pushing us towards. For me, I haven't seen the film a second time yet, and I want to see it.

And if this was not next weekend, I would have gone to see it a second time. But the things that didn't work for me the most as I think back on it are maybe have not come up as much in terms of complaints, but I just found the second act to be a little leaden. and I found almost everything between the Eve Hewson character and the Josh O'Connor character to be really labored and unnatural and it just felt like dialogue not written for two humans whereas when the movie goes to Emily Blunt, every time it goes to Emily Blunt, I felt a jolt.

Like I was awoken and plunged back into the story. And so I can feel people, you know, having some frustrations about the way that those characters are drawn. And I think that that is consistent of the Eif Husson character throughout and she just, you know, becomes plot machine. She is. She's a device. Like, are you near a computer? Yeah.

You know, which is the thing that she asks the... So once you can kind of feel all the machines in place trying to push you towards somewhere. Yeah, but let me ask you about that because I was thinking about that too. The movie is, I think, a bit self-aware in its construction. It opening with a wrestling event, the ultimate distraction in a world where you've got two divided sides, the red and the blue side. And they're fighting each other and we're all distracted from what's really going on

right over our heads. The movie does this a few times where it's like all the ways we are not looking right past our nose at what's really going on. Is it possible that the Eve Hewson character being a device

is a purposeful note because she is literally used as a device by the Colin Firth character in the film. Maybe I'm giving way too much credit to the screenwriter, but I thought that that was like, there's a lot of readings that you could pour

onto the movie like this. Right. It's a little rickety in some of its dialogue. And so is it meant to be more of this like marionette show around sending its ideas home? I don't know. I think because of the way it ends, which is both so inconclusive

and also incredibly conclusive. It's kind of funny to me people being like, well, what do you think happens? Like that's not what the movie is about And also the movie is very Very, very clear about what exactly happens. Emily Blonde foxed the alien, that's what happens next. It's an amazing scene.

I saw it. It was deleted. It's going to be on the Blu-ray. Okay, so another thing, so I have seen it again. So it was not a segue, everyone. It was a adjusted, I mean, it's a wheelchair of sorts. I mean, I think it's custom for sure to the alien. And so the alien is...

She-on-on-she? Who do you think put it together? Yeah, it's Matthew Blasey for Chanel. So the alien is seated and also has like a screen that's sort of like a magician's screen over it. And presumably there's some like atmospheric issues, but also it's a privacy screen. Well, yeah, you know where they put the magician up the screen over and then, you know, oh, look, this person's cut in half once you take the screen off? You sound like a real expert on magic. Yeah, as you know. As you know, that's another thing that requires a belief of a leap of faith that I'm really invested in.

So the alien is wheeled out and is in a seated position, but there is a mechanism that allows the alien to then kind of stand up. It elevates its posterior sort of in a front way. I believe those are called his legs. Well, you don't know, actually. You don't really know what the biology is because that's another thing that is not as close to us. But so by the end, the alien is in a sort of forward segue-like position. This is me doing Jalen Brunson tape breakdown. And it's tall.

And I do think that the alien is taller than the aliens we see in the files. He is. So she is. Again, we don't know. They are. Stop imposing your Earth notions of gender. My gender normative ideas. And so I think the theory that the aliens just grow larger over time.

can stand. Okay. That has not been disproven in my second recording. Also, it just looked like a blanket. It wasn't a cape. So that's... On the weekend in which Wemby, the alien fell, this alien rose. Truly an amazing time.

Literally, with the help of machine. The other thing I wanted to say is that Courtney Grace is the name of the actress who plays the news anchor, who the second time I saw it, I was equally blown away by. And I think, you know, what's so interesting is that I guess the literal, of the movie was a flaw to me or sometimes a little too much. But I, on rewatch, found, like, the tapes, the creation of what they're so powerful and upsetting. And, like, involving not so much the reactions and what would happen in the world, but just, you know, what Stephen Spielberg can do in terms of imagining and communicating not just the possibility of aliens, but... How seeing the tapes would make you feel.

Yeah. It's such an elegantly edited final 15 minutes. And I did want to say Sarah Brochard is the fully credited editor of this movie. This is the first movie that Michael Kahn is not the lead editor for Spielberg film in I don't even know how long. I'm not sure what Kahn's first movie with Spielberg was, but Khan is 96 now. And he had been listed as the editor on all of his films in recent years, including up to the Fablewomen's. And Sarah Brousher was the assistant editor. So her work in the final, in the end of that movie is really great.

The other thing, too, that someone pointed out to me, and this had not occurred to me, but it seems fairly obvious, is that another way to think about this movie is not about the divisiveness over religion or politics specifically, but as a post-COVID allegory or something happened in our country and in our world that seemed, it would have seemed if you had explained it to someone in 2019, they would have said, oh well that's something that everyone could have rallied around you know that that's something that we if we're all under threat physically then there would not be any divisiveness but then when you look at what transpired between 2020 and 2020 and 23 it's so to some of the greatest rancor between people that we've ever seen and that this is a movie too that seems to be really kind

of trying to work through that anger and frustration and thinking is there anything that could potentially unite our interest and our empathy in the same way and I thought that was smart. Yeah. Well, we were talking on Friday's podcast about how our generation has not experienced any sort of communal moment of revelation, something that's like, okay, now we know this and the world has changed. Or now this is happening and we're all watching it at the same time. And I realize afterwards that actually January 6th, most people, it went on for a while. And most people did turn it on and you were kind of watching it in real time like is this happening and then as as we have learned there has been absolutely no ramifications or or unity about

like what happened or what we should do as a result of that and chris ryan's been podcasting that all those men are heroes and erin sorkin's making a new movie about it which you know what i just did not know that erin sorkin had bots like that and came for you well they just they're just out here being like, this is a masterpiece. And listen. The trailer for the social recognition? Yeah. Okay.

So, it's a strong take. I'm psyched for Aaron Sirkin, my guy, who has shaped me, that he has finally managed to turn the internet to work for him. Congratulations. You think he paid for bots to support the release? I mean, there, it was suspicious. That's all I'll say. Interesting.

I didn't talk to very many people who were pumped about that movie, but we shall see. One last thing about this before we start talking about, to be able to. in the 21st century. Do you think that a movie like this can be enjoyed in a sincere and uncomplicated way if you're not viewing it through the prism of his body of work? If you're just, if this is your 13th movie that you've ever seen, in the previous 12 or from the Despicable Me franchise, do you, do you love this movie? Do you hate it?

The Indians, by the way, they're Manhattan's, not Negronis, just for the record. That's what they're drinking. Yeah, yeah. I'll be seeing the film this afternoon. Oh, how exciting. With my daughter, not alone. Oh, that's cute. Yeah.

Let's see. So here's the thing. How do you watch that train sequence and not get, like, jacked up? I agree. I was so stressed out even the second time. How do you not watch all of the alien footage at the end and not feel some sort of investment? Like, you may think it's goofy at the end. And, you know, the comparisons to the Coca-Cola.

Christmas commercial are not unwarranted, though, again, that's a memory. Yeah. And you love Coca-Cola. You're from Atlanta. I do. That's true. But, yeah, I don't understand. If you don't enjoy this, then you like a different type of entertainment than movies.

That's kind of where I am. Yeah, I generally agree. But you know what? Reasonable people can disagree. Reasonable people can, and the other people can keep their opinions to themselves. 21st Century Spielberg. Now, we've done all variation of Spielberg thing. I probably should have done a Spielberg draft at some point because we could have gone ape shit with that because there's so many different categories that you could have come up with.

But even in the conversations that we had where we ranked the movies with Joanna, where we did our top fives, because of our ages and because of the way that those films impacted us, there's a real emphasis on pre-2000s films. Yeah. Because he's got E.T., which I know you watch with your family this weekend. I just, we watched the first 45 minutes and my sons were wrapped and I was almost crying like the entire time. Yeah. It was so crazy. It's still so powerful. I haven't watched it with Alice, but we did it on the rewatchable.

We didn't even watch anything sad happen yet. He was just kind of lonely and so was Elliot and I was like, they're fine. I did you jump? I mean, Jesus Christ. It's a beautiful movie. And then, you know, obviously, uh, Jaws and Close Encounters and Raiders of the Lost Ark and Jurassic Park and Schindler's List in the same year and saving private Ryan. I mean, those are just like. the truly totemic movies that he made.

But, you know, he's got all these other films that are constantly being reassessed and re-understood, like the color purple and Empire of the Sun. And, you know, always is a movie that Spielberg was repping for when we spoke in March. You can go on down the list. He made a ton of movies and made a huge impact on our lives in the first 30-plus years of his career.

And a lot of the movies in the 2000s, especially between 2000 and 2010, were big movies. We're big hits, were big Oscar films. I don't know that they have quite the same cultural longevity and impact that the previous 30 years did. And then there's also this really interesting kind of lost decade between 2011 and 2018 with a couple of good movies sprinkled in there. And then a couple of movies that I think are pretty widely not appreciated. And now he's in the kind of upswing comeback in his 70s where he's made a few movies here that people really like. You would say, like, the last three movies, well, the last two and now Disclosure Day,

Disclosure Day is a huge box office success. West Side Story and the Fableman's were, like, very small movies, critically acclaimed, depending on who you spoke to. Yes. But it's not like he, Stephen Spielberg, kind of the architect of American, you know, blockbusters, has been at the center of the conversation for the last 15 years. So when you look at this slate of movies and this period of his career, Are there any things that jump out to you about what some of his predilections are, some of the things that he keeps circling back to or that he's interested in? I mean, there is a phase where he starts trying to break out of just the basic blockbuster genre box, right? And there are personal themes, but to me they get more wider and systemic and less kind of.

of here is one sad little boy who wants to make an alien friend. And, you know, those are sprinkled in, and I think you can't get away from that when you're an artist of Spielberg's level. Like, he is always going back to his themes, but he starts wrangling with history a bit more. I mean, you know, Schindler's list he did as well, but he keeps kind of, there's a history one. Then there is a, like, technology one. Then there is a, he's a, he's a. the world is opening as opposed to a kid in his room with cameras. I think that's right. I think it's fair to say that for the most part, the first half of his career is about the individual.

And the second half of his career is about the collective body, the social. And in a lot of ways, the political. I mean, it's a very political century of movies for him. Even his blockbusters in this century, you know, minority report and War of the Worlds. And you can catch me if you can. These are very social movies. There's movies about kind of moving through time and history and the way that groups of people are reacting to the changes

that are being often sort of like impressed upon them and how you can break free from them. I rewatched a few of these movies. Not everything. But there were a couple that I have felt like, we're not blind spots, but we're not movies that I was racing out to go revisit. Big revelation for me.

Not never revelation, but the movie I'm most happy I return to is Munich. and I thought it was quite good when it was released. I thought I had maybe watched it since it was released. And I might even set on a podcast. Oh, yeah, I just saw that recently. But I haven't. When I watched it on Friday, I was like,

this is the first time I've seen this in 20 years. And the filmmaking in that movie, I don't know if he's ever been better. The way that that movie is blocked and lit and the way that the action takes place, the how upsetting the violence is, the way that the character drama plays out. It's not even really my favorite cast.

I think there's a bunch of people in that movie. They're a little miscast. Well, I think, I mean, the one issue with it is the central performance in Eric Bana, who is just miscast. And, yeah, I was, when I rewatched it, because you texted me and said you were watching it. It's like, imagine Josh O'Connor in this part,

just absolutely would be lights out amazing. Yeah. I'm not, I don't dislike Eric Banna, but he's just not, the turmoil that he's asked to portray in the movie. He doesn't really. He doesn't really get there. But almost everything else in the film, I found it be so astounding.

And also the fact that, you know, it kicks off this partnership with Tony Kushner, which I think is really important. That was one other thing I wanted to mention to you about, I think I texted you about Disclosure Day. And then I saw a couple people share this on the Internet this weekend, too. Is there a chance that Spielberg brought Disclosure Day as an idea to Kushner? And he said no. And if he had accepted it, would he have been able to elevate the movie higher? because Kushner and Spielberg have this amazing dialectic between them, of pushing and pulling against what they think are the right ways to explore

violence and consequences, apathy and empathy, it's kind of social good versus individual merit. Like there's all of these tension points in all these movies that they do. There's this amazing oral history in New York magazine of Spielberg that was published last week where Kushner talks at length about the ending of Westside Story and how it wasn't the ending that he wanted. and Spielberg pushed for the more, the darker ending. And this all starts in Munich.

This all starts with them having this kind of back and forth. And Munich does not land specifically by saying, this is the path. It's a series of arguments between people over tables about what is and is not right about this conflict between Israel and Palestine, about the consequences of Black September, about hundreds of years of struggle. And I thought that move. was extraordinary watching it again. Yeah, the ideas, and again, the dialogue, the way those questions of ideology and morality

and, you know, and ultimately, like, is a person doing good or bad and what do you owe to yourself, to your family, to the idea of a country, what is the right answer? Yeah. are beautifully written. And then you just wish that you had a cast that was communicating this seems perfectly. But there is nuance and complication in Munich that it's, there is not in Disclosure Day. Yeah. And so the, did he go to Kushner first is an interesting theory.

And you wonder whether Kushner would have said no because he doesn't, it doesn't speak to him. Like maybe he's like me where it's just like, oh, aliens, sure. you know, rock on, but or, or maybe, or maybe this is a project where nuance was like not the point. And I don't know. It's possible. I mean, Kushner obviously has done transcendence with Angels in America. Yeah. And this movie is in that zone, you know, like you mentioned all those religious, textual aspects of Disclosure Day.

But it is also pure sci-fi. Yeah. It's hard sci-fi. And Kushner's not done really very much like that. But I was like, oh, gosh, what does the Kushner screenplay of this story look like? the treatment that Spielberg. I couldn't help but wonder about that. The other thing that all four of the Cushner movies, and most of Spielberg's movies in this past decade are all period pieces.

They're not in the present day. And that was another thing that struck out to me as I was rewatching was like, oh, there is just something. You age yourself a little bit when you're doing the present day. You know, it's just hard not to make that seem a little corny. The only one that is present day is War of the Worlds. Yes. And War of the Worlds is a direct response to 9-11. And so he's trying to portray.

And it doesn't give you a lot about the technology or what's going on. What news in the world is happening. Like, it's a family story that then turns into a huge explosive apocalyptic blockbuster. But you're right. And Minority Report and Ready Player 1 going to the future. And the rest of those films go into the past. And it's a really, it's a good point because it's a point that we've made about other filmmakers over the last five years or so in the show where a lot of them feel more comfortable,

some of these hallowed filmmakers, not having to deal with the technological components that makes storytelling more complex in the 2020s. And even in Disclosure Day, there's a reliance on an old-fashioned brand of media to tell its story. People have their phones, but we're looking at broadcast news.

And I think that's just a function of it being a 79-year-old filmmaker. You know, someone who sees the world through that lens instead of through the lens of a 25-year-old, you know, Gen Z kid who's like, what is broadcast, What is the broadcast news? I've never seen that before. Right. I think there's just also, at a certain point, if you're trying to understand the current world, but your references, you have more experience with a previous lived past.

You know, it just, it's, there's no mediation in between, like, trying to recreate what you think about this world when you're recreating the exact world. And so that means that you have to make more choices and be a bit more specific. and there's less room for interpretation. Whereas you can bring it, if you set your ideas about the present day in whether it's 70s Europe or, you know, the 2054. Is that minority report? I think that's right.

There's more room for invention and then more room for asking questions. There's just no room for questions at Disclosure Day, despite it literally ending with a question. Were there any surprises for your... going back and looking at some of these movies? I really liked Munich as well, despite, but then I remembered exactly why it was not in the, in the Pantheon for me.

You texted me about Bridger Spies, which I don't think I'd seen since it came out. Rock on. Banger, yeah. First half especially, unbelievable. So good. Let's see. So I did Minority Report last week before, and hadn't seen it in a while. And really good.

I mean, the cruise of it all is exhilarating. But I don't think I'd seen it since I had a kid. So that was also, you know, that changes things. Yeah. Let's see. A really, really underrated cruise performance because it's seen as a very like guy running through cities all day long. Yeah. It's a very physical movie.

It's a very high tension action movie. But a really, really good. He gets a really, really great performance at him. And that's when they're in there like. we're locked in and we're going to work together for a really long time. And then it kind of falls apart because of 2005 and the Cruz campaign and all that stuff that happened. And there's all this great, I read this fascinating interview with, I think it was with Der Spiegel around promoting more of the worlds where Cruz is kind of going off and talking a lot about Scientology. And he's having this very confrontational interview.

And you can see Spielberg almost like shrinking into his chair while Cruz is kind of going off. But I did think a little bit about like kind of what could have been in terms of their partnership if that had not happened. because they're just two very energetic filmmakers, you know, and they really, those movies are very alive, War the World's and Minority where they really hold up in terms of like as pure entertainments. Yeah. The other thing I noticed, you know, I texted you. I did not remember that Coleman Domingo is the first person who speaks in Lincoln.

And then you pointed out that Eve Houston, his major part of Bridge of Spies. When I watched Bridge of Spies, I'd forgotten that Jesse Plemons was in it. And then he shows up again in the post. You know, and just kind of the, like the giant cast of characters and just how many amazing actors Spielberg has worked with in his career, which is not surprising. He can, anyone will say yes, but like he's got great taste. No, and he often locates people early on in their career as Driver. That's one of Adam Driver's first performances in Lincoln. There are a number of people in Lincoln who that may, you know, it's a very important Jeremy Strong role in Lincoln.

Like, this is 2012. It's not. This is way before succession. He has always had a knack for that for identifying people really early in their careers and bringing them in. And obviously, once you get into a Spielberg movie, it does kind of lay a path for you as an actor. But he's a very, very insightful person. One of the great notes in that Spielberg oral history that I really enjoyed was Harrison Ford talked about going on a flight with Spielberg before they began filming Raiders of the Lost Ark. And they sat together in first class and they just went through the entire script for the entire flight, I think from New York to Los Angeles.

and he just went beat by beat and talked about what he wanted to see from him and his performance. And Harrison Ford, who had already done, I think two Star Wars movies by this point, said, Steven Spielberg taught me how to be an actor

on that flight, which is as big a compliment as you can give to somebody, especially somebody who was already a movie star by that point. So, yeah, he's amazing with actors, and he frequently gets great performances. You know, like Ariana DeBose winning an Academy Award for West Side Story.

He has not directed. a lot of Academy Award winning performances, but a lot of really indelible ones. Any thoughts about this kind of like saggy middle of this century? I mean, I'll just never forget how angry my father was after Warhorse. Just walked out of it furious.

And this was when Knox Dobbins was like a regular at Midtown Arts Cinema in Atlanta. Like everyone knew him. And just he would see a poster and yell at me. He didn't really like it. So you said that you watched,

rewatch Warhorse this morning. I couldn't go through it. I couldn't finish it. I started it. But yeah, Crystal Skull, Tintin, Warhorse, that's a tough road. It is. It is. I'm not, and I'm not team Crystal Skull either. I actually like Dial of Destiny more than Crystal Skull. I think Crystal Skull is kind of like, and Crystal Skull, there was also some news this weekend that, or maybe it came out before this, but I'd not seen it before. but there was a lot of disagreement amongst Ford, Spielberg, and Lucas, whether or not aliens should be a part of that movie, too. And the inclusion of that,

it kind of rips the movie away from its classical archaeology text. Right. So that's why they just had to bring Archimedes back to life in a dream. No, it wasn't a dream. They went to the past. Yeah, it was Archimedes, right? Because the water displacement from the boat. Yeah, and he should have stayed there.

Syracuse? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Phoebe Bridger. Not Phoebe Bridger. Phoebe Wallerbridge is there. What if Phoebe Richards were there?

I had been a better film. Might have been a better film. I know. That would have been hard for her. Tintin I didn't revisit. So I brought Tintin and the BFG upstairs. And I showed them to Alice. And I said, which of these two do you want to watch?

You mean from the ADU library? Yes. Yeah. Brought them up. Well, I said, let's watch a movie on Saturday afternoon before the next game. Okay. And I brought those two movies up. And I said, you can watch these two.

or we can take out the movie poster. And the movie poster is a gift that was given her by her aunt. It's 100 children's movies. There's an illustration of the children's movie, the title under it, but it's a scratch-off. So every time we watch one, we scratch it off. We counted actually yesterday. We've now done 54 of the 100 films on this scratch-off.

And I said, you can either choose the two movies that I brought upstairs or you can do a scratch-off. She looked at the covers of the BFG and of Tintin, and she said, let's do a scratch-off. And so what did we end up watching? Shoot, I'm trying to. We watched Dispicable Me, because we were going to see Manions and monsters. She picked Dispicable Me off the poster, and we watched that.

And she liked it, and she laughed a lot. The minions are fun. They're very funny. Yeah. She enjoyed Gru as well. Nevertheless, those two movies feel like real miscalculations to me. They're the only two movies. Even War Horse I have some time for and I find it be an interesting character study of an animal.

Like, it's not, it's different. It's a unique try at something that doesn't really come together for me. It is one of my least favorite of Spielberg films. You're going to get a mean email from Knox Dobbins if he ever listens to this. Because he hates it so much. He hates it. Does he hate horses? I'm not sure that he has much of a relationship to them, which might be part of the issue.

Yo, there's so much horse content in Toy Story 5. Oh, my God. Wow, she's a horse girl? No spoilers. I thought you were going to say that Alice is going to be a horse girl, which like it's burgeoning. It's in play. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I love that.

I always wanted to be a horse girl. It was just not. Well, that's an expensive hobby. I also was afraid of forces. You know, I respect them. They're powerful. Yeah, they are. And I don't need to interact with that.

If I can't control it, I don't want to be around it. Boyce 35, wow. Okay, I don't know what I'm going to see that. Ton of bricks. Holy cow. But yeah, Tintin, which is co-directed with Peter Jackson, and I guess it was like a lifelong fascination for them based on the, is it the Dutch cartoonist who created Tintin?

There were a lot in France when I was there. It's Belgian. Belgian, thank you so much. Is it Erve? What's his name? Let's see. I'm getting this wrong. Erge.

Erge, thank you. I never had any interest in those characters. I didn't really know a lot about that world. And watching the movie, I was like, why did you want to make this? What was this about? Is this just to get involved in digital animation? Was that the appeal? Very strange movie.

I know it has its fans. But yeah, that period is weird, with the exception of Lincoln and Bridge of Spies in the middle. which are two of the best period pieces he ever made. And Lincoln, you know, I'm on the record. I went on Tim Simons' show Seconding Command if people haven't checked that out, which is a podcast that is about movies featuring presidents. Yes. Which is a very fun show.

You've been on that show? I did the American president. That's right. I dibs to that so fast. We got the text and I was like, American president. Speaking of Aaron Sorkin. That's right. He keeps coming back.

I think I did the same thing with Lincoln, but it took me quite a long time to get in the studio with them. But, you know, I think Lincoln is a masterpiece. I think that's a five-star movie for me. Overlooked, despite DDL winning, the best actor. I enjoyed the part of, I can't remember which rewatchables. It was you, Chris and Bill. And you told the story that I've heard like eight times of you guys that what's the... E Rustic in.

Yeah, E Rustic. I've just been like Lincoln's on. Now we will just be two men sitting in silence watching Lincoln together. And Bill was like, who wants to watch Lincoln? We were in a sports bar. There were 10 televisions on. It was all sports except for the backright television, which was running TCM, and it was the final 20 minutes of Lincoln. And Sierra and I were having a nice time.

I don't know what we were doing. Went to a movie or something. I went to go get beers. And yeah, Lincoln was on and we just sat quietly. We didn't speak to one another. And we just watched that final scene. Was it subtitled? No.

So you just did it from memory. You do need the dialogue in Lincoln. You do and yet you don't. If you've seen it enough times, it has a visual. It has that final, amazing final sequence for all the men in their hats. And there's this, you know, Lincoln speech. Yes. The second inaugural, I believe.

So, so visually breathtaking. So we didn't need the words. Okay. The words are valuable. Don't get me wrong. What other movies? What other names should be mentioned? The terminal?

Do you have any feelings about the terminal? I saw it once. A lot of jokes. I think of it every time I'm traveling with my family via air. Okay. So in that, you know, that I will also. What does you think of when traveling by C? We haven't done that yet

But I think of this So you think often of Megatron being buried at sea No I didn't He was Did you see It was an illusion to Bin Laden Okay that's beautiful Michael Bay always

I don't know if it actually was The heart of Modern America If it was That's hysterical But if it wasn't But it is That's also hysterical

There's an amazing shot in the film of Megatron The giant evil robot being carried by helicopters out to the sea and then dropped. That's funny. The Transformers films are produced by Steven Spielberg for the record. Listen, he likes to build things. Yes.

Did you see the on-set photos of the new Superman movie that they are filming? Man of Tomorrow. Man of Tomorrow. And it's David Cornswet and Nicholas Holt as Lex Luther. and they just had some sort of fight but Nicholas Holt as Lex Luthor is wearing what definite looked like a Transformer suit to me

It's not, it's either Transformers or Buzz Light Ear He looks like Buzz Light Ear. He does. I was actually wondering if it is a tie-in and he is actually trying to be Buzz Light Year. It looks exactly like Buzz Light Year. This is real Superman Canon. It's called the Warsuit.

Great, okay. This is a thing he wears. Yeah. I think there's a, I don't know when the war suit came into creation, but maybe Buzz Light Year was, maybe they saw the war suit and that's part of how they built Buzz Light Year. You never know with these things.

All right. You're not happy about Nicholas Holt having to fight Superman wearing a giant mecca suit. No, I just, even I thought, hey, that looks like Buzz Light Year. And then you brought up Transformers and so, yeah, that does. But that has a Transformers vibe to it. It does. It does. Okay. Boys in their toys, you know.

You don't have to tell me. Spielberg is not immune to that. You do not have to tell me. A part of E.T. that really resonated with my children was when Elliot is making E.T. feel safe by showing him all of his toys, including his Star Wars toys, which are name checked. And then, you know, and Knox was like, Boba Fett, I know Boba, you know, or whoever it is, I don't remember. And children do this. My boys do this all the time. Here's another toy that I have. Here's another toy that I have.

I love that little cubby area that Elliott has where he plays. And then later in the film when his older brother is, like, sleeping in that area when E.T. is, apprehended and they feel like the painful heart loss of E.T. That's like, God, that movie is chilling. I honestly don't know how we're going to watch the end of it or how I'm going to make it through. It's real waterworks. It's instantaneous in the final 40 minutes. Like, I'm telling you 20 minutes in, just watching Knox get invested in ET. I was like, oh my God. It's not nostalgia, too. It still works on kids to this day. There's something really crazy about those movies. A movie that we have not mentioned hardly at all is Catch Me If You

Yeah. Which is one of the most purely pleasurable movies that he has made this century. I know that it's 2002 in this century, but to me it's real old school Spielberg. It's from the last, I mean, you know, it's the father and his son and putting on a show to try to get the love back. That's right. And, you know, like a period piece. There's a caper. Like they're like set piece elements to it like Indiana.

You know, it's not unlike Indiana Jones where he's just going through the world trying to get something. I love that movie. Yeah, it is fabulous. You're right on, though. I think that's right. That it feels a bit more of the first era of Spielberg. And I would have liked him to have worked with Leo one more time. Same.

You think it's off the table? I wonder if we can get him in that Western. Okay. Oh, yeah. He does like a Western. You think Leo likes horses? Do we know? I mean, he was in the Quick and the Dead.

Yeah. He was in Django Unchained. Yes. So he's done the Western before. Right. But does he actually do any of the horsework? I don't believe he's on horseback in either of those movies. I can't remember, to be honest with you.

I can't conjure it if he is. Yeah, maybe he doesn't like him. California boy. Yeah. That was a, let's look at the 2003 Oscars because that was a performance where I was like, that should be best actor. And I'm sure he lost to some hallowed genius that year. Was he even nominated?

I think he was nominated. 2003 Oscars I think that's Chicago year Was that the year of the Chicago? He was not nominated. Adrian Brody. Oh, okay. Alf one. Frank Abagnale.

Yeah. All time trickster, huckster character. The terminal, the one thing I wanted to note about the terminal is I did think... Catch me if you can

was not even nominated for Best Picture? It was not. Despite being a massive hit. Massive hit. Whatever. Did it get any Oscar nominations? Was Walkin nominated?

Yes, Walkin was nominated. Walkin was nominated. Walkin and, and John Williams. Wonderful score, obviously. The thing about the terminal is, I found the terminal to have a lot in common with Bridge of Spies,

because one thing that he gets this preoccupation with in a lot of these movies is the othering of people by way of bureaucracy or, like, political psychosis. And Bridge of Spies is this really interesting movie about this moral pragmatist lawyer who is defending a Russian spy and the whole world

hates him for defending this person who is you know a traitor to our country working to sell secrets you know threatening the lives of American citizens and the terminal is a much kinder softer version of that but it's a movie about a displaced person kind of trapped in this purgatory over these long periods of this long period of time

and trying to discover community and trying to get people to understand him and accept him this is a very thoughtful kind movie about the immigrant experience and not being out of place in the world, it's not as like funny or dramatically successful as you wanted to be for it to work. And there's a reason why it's always been kind of near the bottom of a lot of the lists for his career. But I think there's something, it actually is sort of similar to me in terms of like a disclosure day where I'm like, even if everything doesn't work, I really liked going back to it when I did about three or four years ago because of the way that the things you made me think about that he's interested in.

That's also, thematically, there is... An alien. Yeah, there's a lot. I mean, this, just a lonely person trying to fit in and to find their community. It's in basically every movie. Yeah, I love that other segment from the oral history where he talks about, there's talk about him seeking communion, seeking unity with, like, groups of guys to kind of like backfill some of his childhood. loneliness. Yeah.

And that even to this day, like, he is somebody who, like, gravitates towards his buddies. He talked on the rewatchables about painting models with Guillermo and JJ. And a lot of people have received that as revelation, but that's something that Spielberg has talked about publicly a few times. I was surprised by that. Yeah. And, well, and Guillermo talks about it. And he invoked it at the DGA's when we went.

So, like, we talked about it. Yeah. It has been out there in the world. But honestly, podcasting with Spielberg, I was like, this is how I feel. Like, I totally relate to that. And you're right that a lot of these movies are about being lonely. Yeah. And even if some of them have big social concern, like West Side Story has plenty of social concern

and about New York and about cities and about young identity. And I don't know, it's a rich pallet of stuff. Yeah. With a few stinkers, you know? I have always defended Ready Player 1. I was at the South by Southwest premiere of Ready Player 1, and I liked a lot of it. And I thought it was an interesting movie about him trying to reckon with some of what he's responsible for in the culture.

Yeah. It's not, it's flawed. It's a goofy story. I never read the novel, but it's a goofy story. I don't love Ty Sheridan in the movie as the lead. I agree. I mean, it's goofy and it's just not fun to watch in the way that I find some of the other movies fun to watch. It's not, it's not wrong as a point, you know?

Yeah, yeah. The point is right, which is that it's, I mean, and this was, that was eight years ago that movie was made. Yeah. People are even more slipped inside of their own, you know, online identities. Do you want to have a fight about AI? No, I would never want to fight about a movie that I think is beautiful, you know, that I think is a masterpiece. I rewatched it and it just straight up doesn't work for me. I don't know what, you know, you got to fix that hole in your heart.

Okay. You got to get a Knicks championship inside you. I don't know what to say. I just, and it's not the sentimental part that doesn't work for me, which Spielberg has always said is the, that's the Kubrick and that his is the weird, you know, you know, me and Carney's, man, even futuristic carnies. I love cute law. I just, I do, but not like that. I don't know what's going on there.

It doesn't match. It doesn't work for me. People pointed out that we did not have Spielberg on our 25 for 25 list. And I think one of the biggest reasons for that is it would be very hard. We pointed that out. We had a lot of anxiety about that. But it's been brought up to me many times, especially in the aftermath of like, you, you're podcasting with Spielberg.

He wasn't on this list. Yeah. You know, I straight up love 10 of these movies that we've got on the list here. and I like a couple more beyond that. And to me, AI is the big achievement. That's the one that is different from all the other ones. That's the one with the biggest world. That's the one that presages every idea.

That's the one where he fuses someone else's sensibility with his own. That's the one where he is almost like actively rejecting what everyone expects his sensibility to be based on a movie like E.T. And saying that there is like darkness, there is hope and light at the end of that movie, but there's a lot of really, really difficult darkness in that movie, violence, terror. It really presages so much of what happened in the world in the 21st century. But you don't like it. And so if you don't like it, it's really hard.

So if we didn't do that, but we tried to put it on, what would have been the movie we would have agreed on? You think so? Yeah, I do. It just feels a little bit light relative to what his filmography has been this century, where he's making Munich and Lincoln and movies that are about confrontations with our national character or our personal morality. Well, I'm not saying that we have to put Catch Me if you can at number one here,

but you were saying if for our 25 for 25, which is the movie that we can agree on from this filmography. I mean, Bridge of Spies is great, but I don't know if we would pick it over. It would be number one for me. Yeah. I liked it a lot and I was surprised by how much I liked it on the revisit just like you were. But this exercise is tricky. I loved the Fablements.

I did too. You know. I think it's top five. Yeah. So maybe we could have done that, but we didn't have the, we didn't put anything after 2020 on the list. That would have been maybe the move. Yeah.

I mean, two kids of divorce, you know? Yeah. That would have been maybe the move. I kept seeing that incredible image when Paul Dano, Michelle Williams, and Seth Rogan are in the audience and they're cheering him on. And the camera holds on Michelle Williams and we see Paul Dano come into the frame to kind of lean in to make a connection with Michelle Williams' character. Yeah.

To say, like, did you see that? Can you believe that? How wonderful. And she completely ignores him. And then she turns and the camera moves and she makes the moment with Seth Rogen because that's who she loves and who she. We don't know yet that she has a connection with him. Small, simple, visual storytelling.

There's like a thousand examples of this stuff in the movies. I love him. Yeah, it's great. Do you want to put it at number one? That's not how we do it. You want to start at the... What's worse? Tintin or BFG?

Like, let's start there. Or Crystal Skull? I don't think Crystal Skull is the worst. Crystal Skull is watchable. I didn't re-watch Tintin or BFG because I didn't want to. So let's say... Oh, Lucas, I see you're highlighting BFG in the dock. Is that your way of...

Okay. I think that would be my... I tried to watch it last night and I couldn't get through it. Yeah. Okay, that's fine. There's just a miscalculation with the way that the BFG looks. And I've said before on the show, I was a role doll kid.

I read all the role doll novels. Thinking about putting some of those in front of Alice soon. Matilda really helped me learn how to read. And I... Magic. And a great film adaptation also. Yeah.

Danny DeVito. I... And I read the BFG. That was one of my books. Yeah. That was one of the books in the doll stack that I had. And I thought that this was like just kind of misconceived from the start. I agree.

So I'll say BFG there. That's fine. Then 1010. Yeah. Tintin heads will come for you. So did the Aaron Sorkin heads. The Erge heads. I'm still here. I'm thriving. Well, you're one of them, though. They can't really take you down.

Yeah. You've got Sorkin in your DNA. I think I've made it very clear that I don't care. You have done that. What's next? Is it Crystal Skull? I think so. It's not the terminal, right? No. Crystal Skull, I guess Crystal Skull does have many of our faves.

It's on a grand scale. Shia. Yeah. Ray Winston. I... That's fine. I wish he hadn't done it. It's the only movie on here I wish he hadn't done.

Well, then put it next. Because I can... I can... I can accept trying Tintin and saying, like, this is a kind of movie I haven't made before. Same with the BFG. This is like a technological component to it. Right.

That you can see he has curiosity about. And I respect that if directors want to pursue that. Crystal Skull just feels like a cash in. Like, I... I don't really know what was left to do and say with that character for those guys. Nothing. And yet two more films have been made. Let's put Crystal Skull at 15.

There's 17 movies total here, so we've got three. Okay. War Horse. I think it's War Horse. Yeah. I think War Horse is 14. You know, again, this is... And it's above Crystal Skull because you love horses.

I liked some of the gestures that I saw this morning. Can you ride a horse? Okay, that is going to be filmed at some point. I'm trying to think if I've been on a horse. I've been on a horse. Did I ever tell you about when Zach and I went to like a friend's dad's ranch and Zach was just like on a horse with the cowboys like rounding up cattle? And I was like, that is why I married Zach Barron. I'm trying to think if I've ever.

But it's also like, how do you know how to do that? Like what is that about? I don't think I've had opportunity. to be on a horse. I took some horse lessons because I wanted to be a horse girl but there were a number of

hurdles including money and confidence. Yeah, that's a challenging hobby like I said. Okay, Warhorse, which is a very elegant film. Sorry, a Knox senior.

I think the next movie is the terminal on this list. Okay. Which is not a bad film. It's a nice film. Okay. And then Ready Player 1 at 12?

I think so because there are things about Ready Player 1 I like. So I would... So you would put it over terminal. Some people would say Ready Player 1 is the worst movie has made this century. I don't really feel that way. I think there's some... His conception of that world and his sensibility in the movie, I think, is really smart. Very amusing Mark Rylance performance in that movie as well about some weird Steve Jobs, Bill Gates. Yeah. You know, Jeff Bezos' character. Hmm.

Okay. Now, the real work starts here. Because that's the dodgy six. Yeah. That's the six that people don't have a huge relationship to. The next 11 are more challenged. Is it Disclosure Day? I was going to say, is it Disclosure Day or is it the Post, which are very much in conversation with each other. See, I like Disclosure Day more because it gives me more to chew on.

Yeah. The Post is a good movie. It's not bad. I like it. I the Pope they're similarly old-fashioned they're similarly interested in an idea of revelation and what it can mean to us They're similarly invested in A handsome guy from the United Kingdom or thereabouts Getting secrets out of Not quite government but government facility

I Think it's the post Okay That's fine What do you think about the post really We were podcasting then, but just barely So I rewatched it last week as well Before we podcasted I really enjoyed it

I mean some of it was just like oh there's Tracy Hi hello Tracy and I'd forgotten the carries in it too And so that's a nice moment It's I liked it A lot as a Meryl Street performance And I think we maybe overlooked it When we were doing Meryl Street Hall of Fame Because she's both doing the Meryl thing

But what that movie investigates about a woman of that age in that time period and trying to figure out what to do with that. It's a very interesting and memorable performance. I mean, I like it

when people are talking in rooms. It's hard to be Ben Bradley on screen after Jason Robarts. Yeah. You know? It's a little bit of a Hank's problem. Yeah. Which is weird.

You know, I love Hanks, obviously. But, yeah, it's not my favorite. I think good script. It's Josh Singer and Liz Hanna. They were on the show, actually, for the movie. I like it. I think it was a little bit trapped in the post-Trump. Yeah, I was going to say.

The first wave of we got him, we don't have him. Yes. Yes. And what can happen if we trust in our institutions and allow journalists to do their work. Sure. Which is an idea that I want to believe in. And if there are things that I have become cynical about it is our ability to make that work matter as much as it used to. So yeah, I'll say the post-in-dend disclosure date.

To me, they're like tied, because they're both very impressively made movies that feel like they come from a different era. Why don't we tie them? At 10. We can do that. We can do that. I think they have to be tied at 11. Is how that works? Is that how that works?

That is correct. Well, okay. Not as cool to be tied at 11 as it is to be tied at 10. But you know what? Tide. Good call. Now the work begins. Why does it have to work that way?

just every list I've ever seen goes with the number before. But this is our podcast, God damn it's tied at 10. Because the only place you can't be tied is at one. Oh. So if two people can be tied at two, they can't be tied at one. Yeah.

So why can't this? It always goes up. Like, well, you can't be tied to two. You can't be tied at three. You can be tied at two. I don't know.

Am I wrong about this? I've never heard of this. I think it was God. I think God said you must be tied at 11 when you guys are doing your Spielberg list. I'm the one who understands the language of the universe and you're the empathy one after the next. Okay. So that's how that works. Okay. We're still working through this.

This has been very scientific so far. We have nine films left to go. I think what is coming next? I mean, you know what I think, but there's no way AI is going to. I know. That's fine. Okay. So what about War of the Worlds? Wow.

Okay. Don't. You know that I write hard for West Side Story. We both write hard for Fableman's. This is hard. Catch me if you can. Minority Report. You're not going to put those there.

None of those are going to nine. Yeah. And now I've been, what about Bridge of Spies? At nine? Wow. You're not putting Bridger Spies over AI. That's insane.

You really don't like Tom Hanks. No, I do like Tom Hanks. No. See, even the way that you just said that, that's your lying face. The problem with Bridge of Spies. Yeah. Is not Tom Hanks' performance.

It's that he is like 65 years old playing a father of an eight-year-old. Listen, magical things can happen. Sure. It's a little odd. It's a little odd. You know plenty of dads in their 70s and 80s. So does the rest of the world. Al Pacino.

Robert De Niro. Yeah. Normal guys. Okay. Guys who've led normal lives. Um, what's, Robert De Niro. arms in Favre and Law. Do you think Zach should be allowed to father children in his 70s?

Zach Barron? Yeah. With other people? No, Zach Lowe. I honestly, there have been a couple times, though, when I'm texting Zach. And Zach Lowe is a friend of the podcast and also shows up in my phone. And I'm like, I'm about to send a grocery list to Zach Lowe. I have a picture of our child to Zach Lowe.

I have multiple times texted Zach Lowe. I'm sorry in advance. Multiple times I've sent Zach Lowe text. It's like, be there in 15 minutes. This bar, right? And he's like, what? I'm in New York. It's 11 p.m.

It's tough. We're not putting A.A. at 9, so just settle down. I didn't say it. I said War of the Worlds. I broke her to peace. Well, make me an offer. This is fucking hard, man. Make me an offer.

I mean, War of the Worlds, your instincts are good there. They always are. They always are. Okay. War of the Worlds. What did I rate this on Letterbox? Four and a half stars. Okay.

I think it's Bridge of Spies. I think it's Bridges spies. Then War the Worlds. That's fine. Then we'll let you do AI. at seven. Okay, I accept. Is that a fair deal? I accept the terms. Bridge of Spies, though, really fun. It's really fun. Yeah. Yeah, World of Worlds is really fun. I mean, it's harrowing and very challenging.

But these are, see, most of these movies for me are like four, four and a half, five-star movies. Like, they're really in the upper echelon of films from this century, which is why it's so crazy that we don't have him on our list. Okay, so we said, Bridge of Spies, War of the World's, AI. Mm-hmm. So you can have West Side... To me, AI is so much better than West Side Story. It's so much better. Eat shit.

Like, come on. West Side Story is really, really good, and the filmmaking is extraordinary, but it is a remake of West Side Story. Which is a remake of Romeo and Juliet, which is just that we're all iterating on one thing. Not really, though. You either go and... It has this new choreography and these songs have been written for the show. Like, it is not just a remake of Romeo and Juliet, but this movie is a straight-up remake of another movie. But very different.

It doesn't use the choreography. It takes liberties. It changes some of the aspects of the film. But like the set pieces of the movie, the core memorable moments of the movie. Right, because it's, you know, based in song. I'm not, what I'm doing is defending AI, not dissing West Side Story. If you want to put West Side Story at 7, like I can be right about that against everyone.

You think AI should be below. No, no, for the record, to be 100% transparent, I have no. never seen the film AI. The only thing is I have a very strong relationship to West Side Story. You got to fucking watch AI, bro. I know. It's on my list. You all got to watch AI and get on that level. I did. And I will give it to you because it's your special day or your special year or whatever. It's fine. And I like don't want to have fights with the Kubrick people. And like whatever. But West Side Story was slept on then, slept on now. I'll let you. pick 543 if you give me AI at 6. That's fine. I already said yes. You didn't even have to do that. That's not good negotiating. West Side Story at 7, AI at 6. That's a victory for me. I don't think

AI works, but that's fine. Okay. Okay, so 543. Here's those on the board. Yeah. The Fablemans. Yeah. Lincoln. Yeah. Munich. Yeah. Catch me if you can. Yes. Minority report. It's a bangor. It's a bangor. Okay. So I think Munich at 5. I agree. Minority Report 4. Or do you want to do Lincoln 4? Nope, Minority Report 4. Minority Report 4.

Lincoln 3? I know. And I love what you and Chris Ryan have. And I look forward to your Alien podcast. And it was nice that you invited me to come along for the ride. You got to be there. But I know. You learned all about the wheelchair, whatever the jacket.

A modified wheelchair and a blanket. Yeah. Like you said, we don't know if the alien is a boy or a girl. That's right. So we need to have both sides. Maybe there's no gender in that race. I think it's possible. I think that that is...

How do they procreate? Like... We don't know. Like amoeba? They split? Where they... Or, yeah. Yeah?

I don't know. They haven't told us. You're the arbiter of science corner. Okay. Well... Get it together. All I know is what Josh O'Connor liberated from Wardex and showed me on network television.

Yeah. Which I still watch, like the rest of the world. Liberated from Wardex is an incredible hardcore band name. That's one of the best hardcore band names I've ever heard. Okay, so three Lincoln. Is Fableman's number one? I think so. That's crazy.

It's our list. It's our list. And it's about how we got Steven Spielberg. We were talking last week about how Disclosure Day has like real Killers of the Flower Moon vibe. But like here's the deal. Fabelman's is actually his killers of the flower moon. Because it is continuations on a theme, its origin story, it's incredibly moving. It's about movies.

I didn't rewatch it for this episode, and I wish I had. I think that it's obvious that Fableman's and Disclosure Day are kind of working hand-in-hand that there's a movie about a young boy who's got all these dreams and ideas about the world, and all he wants to do is put them up there. And his childhood trauma has informed his ability to do that. And Disclosure Day is also a movie about childhood trauma and your ability to go back to something that happened to you in an early time in your life and put something on screens. Like, they're the same movie.

They're the same movie. And even though they're about totally different things. And God, I love it when directors are able to thematically fuse their biography in like this. And no one does it better than Spielberg. I wish I had rewatched the Fableman's to have more feelings about this before putting it at number one on this list. Fuck. It's a little hard to certify that. Do you want to change it?

What would you like to propose? Again, you're doing great list making here. Yeah. You know? And, like, you got to, you know, find it in the room. What's what we did, right? Okay. So when I saw The Fabelman's, it was different than when I saw Catch Me If You Can in Theaters.

When I saw Catch Me If You Can in theaters, I was like, whoa. Chills, the movies. Might already report, too. In theaters. Oh, my God. Chills the movies. You know, it's revealed that Max von Seedow is the big bad of the whole story. I was like, oh, God, fuck, movies.

I love movies. The Fabelmans, I was like, this is an intellectual exercise. It's revealed that Max von Seedau. It's, like, telegraphed within the first five minutes. when it's like, come home, come to my house. Okay. It's not it. I mean, a little bit.

It's fine. You're not watching the movie that way. You don't even know it's going to be Max Vonsito in that point, at that point. Okay. Yeah, fuck it. I remember we both saw it at AFI, the AFI premiere, right? And his sisters were there, which is very sweet. Yes.

And I just, we loved it. We walked out and we loved it. The last scene with David Lynch and you're just like, wow. I know. The party was at Motherwolf, but we didn't go. There was, there's an amazing super cut of Horizon shots from People's career. I got to find that. If someone can find that and send that to us, like, we'll repost it or something where he's just, it goes horizon, horizon, horizon, horizon, and 50

movies in a row. Okay, let's recap. Okay. I think this is pretty good, even though we're really audacious at the end here. If you had asked me this a couple years ago, I think Minority Report Lincoln and Catch Me if you can are battling. For number one. Assuming you're not letting me put AI there. But so, but the Fableman's, okay, here we go. 17, the BFG. Okay. 16 The Adventures of Tintin. 15 Indiana Jones in the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull 14 Warhorse, 13 the terminal, 12 ready player 1, 11

the post tied with Disclosure Day at 11, 9 Bridge of Spies, 8 War of the Worlds, 7 West Side Story, 6 AI artificial intelligence, 5 Munich, 4 Minority Report, 3 Lincoln, 2 Catch Me If You Can, and won the Fableman's. Good list. Yeah, good list. We did good. Okay, any closing thoughts? Steven Spielberg is very good at his job. So good. So good.

Thank you, Steven Spielberg, for these movies. Thanks to our producer Jack Sanders for his work on today's episode. Thanks to Lucas Cavanaugh for his production support later this week. If you can see it... I can see it. We're talking about Toy Story 5. By myself at like 8 p.m. on Thursday. I was supposed to go on a day with my husband.

Fuck, I had to go see. Is there not like a 2 p.m. screening? Disney really screwed me. Oh, I guess I could go by myself and then go to the potluck. Yeah. Can you do that? The movie's only 90 minutes. Yes.

Yes, I can. Okay. Is there going to be a 2 p.m. screening? Toy Story 5 show times. Here we go. This is where we make the magic. Yep. 2 p.m.

We got it. Boom. Okay. So then we will record on Friday morning a Toy Story 5 episode. Yes. And I'll see Robin Hood too, because we all know how I thrill to the story of Robin Hood. Well, this is about the death of Robin Hood, because that's the title of the film, the death of Robin Hood. I've seen that film.

Yeah. Toy Story 5. might have to be a similarly long and involved podcast. Okay, great. Hopefully for you. And if you come with a bad energy, don't ruin this Nix year. When have I ever come with a bad energy? Oh, when.

Okay, thanks for watching. Go Nix. See you next week.