The Big Picture - The 25 Best Movies of the Century: No. 10 - 'Marie Antoinette’

Episode Date: October 1, 2025

Sean and Amanda return to continue their yearlong project of listing the 25 best movies of the 21st century so far. Today, they discuss Sofia Coppola’s ‘Marie Antoinette,’ one of the greatest blank checks this century, starring Kirsten Dunst. They explain why this was the official Sofia Coppola selection for the list, especially over ‘Lost in Translation’; highlight the specific decision to not include Antoinette’s infamous beheading; and discuss why this is a quintessential Kirsten Dunst performance. Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Producer: Jack Sanders Unlock an extra $250 at linkedin.com/thebigpicture  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Sean Fennacy. And this is 25 for 25, a big picture special conversation show about Marie Antoinette. And that's such nonsense. I would never say that. We are talking today about the Sophia Coppola choice. Yeah. This is the big picture. So, of course, there would be a Sophia Coppola movie.

You have been bursting at the seams. Yes. To talk about this movie, to talk about Sophia as part of this project. We've chosen Marie Antoinette. I think most listeners of the show are thinking. Expect lost in translation. Yes. Including my husband, who when I told him of this decision, said, I don't agree with that.

So everyone at home, if you don't agree, you, you know, are being heard in my household, but you are not in charge because it's now your podcast. I think that it's very important for you to be the most dominant voice on this episode. the one thing that I will say is I like Lost in Translation more as a film, but I think this is a superior film and an excellent choice. Yeah, thank you. Same. Take it away. Why did you go here? You encouraged me to. And people hear on the episode that I think even I reflexively,

I knew that, you know, Lost in Translation was, you know, Sophia Coppola's like crowning achievements sort of, like she had made Virgin suicides, but it was her big entrance into Hollywood. It is generally the most accepted. She won the Oscar for screenplay, was nominated for director and for Best Picture. So, like, it's wonderful. I love that movie. This episode is presented by LinkedIn Ads. Sometimes marketing gets wasted on the wrong people.

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and get a free $250 credit for the next one. Just go to LinkedIn.com slash the big picture. Terms and conditions apply. You did a great episode of the rewatchables on it with Bill. Thank you so much. And Bill actually on that episode identified one thing about why I love Marie Antoinette that we'll talk more about. But I have been thinking a lot about the Quentin Tarantino quote that you mentioned a

couple weeks ago when we were talking about one battle after another and deciding like what's the best. And there is the best movie, my favorite movie, and the movie that only I could make. And this is the movie that only Sophia Coppola can make. And it is, it's like the complete Sophia Coppola cinematic universe package. And also just is so unexpected. She uses all of like the money and clout from Lost in Translation. It is one of the great blank checks to make an epic costume drama filmed at the Palace of Versailles, like unprecedented access, with seven wardrobe trucks worth of costumes.

and an awesome rock and roll like post-punk new romantic soundtrack about the most reviled figure in French history and makes it

a sympathetic portrait and like all about teen girl shit and then debuts it it can like that that is legendary stuff and that and she does it

also in like a sort of like unassuming it's not quiet but there aren't a lot of words in this. It's all baked into the filmmaking. So it's so, so deeply Sophia Coppola in a way that thrills me. And it also stars Kirsten Dunst. And that was what Bill observed, which was that my favorite Sophia Copel movie does have to be a movie starring Kirsten Dunst. They have worked

together. But that is also like my energy. And I love this performance. It's so beautiful to look at. So I love watching it. I love the soundtrack. It just, it rules. And no one else could do it. It's so funny to see you in the spot that I often find myself in of kind of like finding all the things that I love and talking about why I love them. I think this is an amazing achievement of conception, right?

She had like just a brilliant idea. Yeah. And we've been talking a lot about budgets recently because of the one battle after another stuff. And like PCA's never made a movie this big. And this is Sophia Coppola's biggest movie by far. It's not $150 million, but it's $40 million. I think her next biggest movie is probably in the area of $20 million. You know, like the, I think, the Beguiled and Priscilla,

and those films are all somewhere between 10 and 20. But this is an example of when we say, like, what can you do with more? Like, why you should empower an artist sometimes. Lost in Translation, I don't know what its ultimate box office take was, but it did very well at the box office, which is one of the reasons why she got to make this movie. And to her infinite credit, puts it all on screen. Because it's such an oral and visual overload.

It's just such an incredibly realized execution of her idea that I really doffed my cap to this movie, even though it's never going to be like emotionally true to me. Which is also a little bit of what makes it exciting to me, is that it is really, of all her movies, is like the most girl world, like the most sort of silo-off on male influence. Like, you know, Virgin Suicides is narrated by the neighborhood voice. Loss in translation is Bill Murray and Scarlett-Johansen.

It's the two characters and what they can, like, teach each other. Beguiled and Priscilla are about what happens when, like, a weird man comes into, like, girl world. or you get, a girl gets slurped into a very weird man's world. On the Rocks is about like a dad-daughter relationship somewhere, a dad-daughter relationship. So there are, you know, looming Francis Ford-Colpola-like figures in most of her movies. And there are obviously men in this in the form of Rip Torn as Louis the 15th and Jason Schwartzman as Louis the 16th. but, like, they're incidental.

They are, they are, like, technically in power, but, you know, Louis XVIth, Jason Shorthman's character is, like, I don't know if he's imbitant or just, you know, blocked for a long time. It seems, it seems like blocked. I think he's a little picky, a little specific. Sure, psychological, you know. And they don't really matter. And so everything that, that Marie Antoinette is played by Kirsten,

is experiencing is, like, dictated by women, you know, the power figures are her mother. And then one of the countesses, I can't remember her name. Judy Davis's character. Yeah, they all have, like, very long titles and are pronounced with, like, varying degrees of a French accent. So we'll just use the actor's names. Yeah, and played by actresses who have these kind of, like, severe and intense qualities. But, and then, so the rules are laid down by women. She's, She gets approval and companionship, like, from women with, you know, the acceptance. Like, this is famously, like, one of Jamie Dornan's, if not his, like, his first part, first part. And he's there as, like, the hunky guy.

But he shows up, like, 90 minutes in for, like, 15 minutes. Huge W for the Irish in this movie. Yeah, and, like, he looks, he looks great. It's a very handsome chap. It is, like, the rules, the social structure, the stakes, everything. and really all of the people around her are all women. And then it's the concerns are girl stuff, you know, and girl stuff in terms of like shoes and like macaroons and pastries and fashion,

but also like who's being mean to me and like who's going to sleep with me or why won't this person sleep with me or how does this all kind of work out? It just feels very young woman like in clothes. in a way that is awesome to me because it like it doesn't have any of your shit and that's and like I like your shit you know I'm I'm raising the next generation of bobs you know so I my shit you know most boy stuff I appreciate it and when I am like submerged in it in a male filmmaker's film like you know I appreciate it but it like there is something special about I'm just like look at all these flowers. I really do like flowers that much. I want to see this many flowers.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think she, I think Sophia is the great artist. Yeah. Of her generation in this kind of milieu. Exactly. Like for, you know, not all female filmmakers are interested in macarons and pink and, you know, chucks or converse set in the world of 17th century France. It's really related to like to, to the world of fashion and like, and fashion spreads. I was rereading her archive. book last night. And in one of the captions, the captions are just like hilariously perfunctory. I love this woman so much. But what is an example of that? Where she's just like, it was nice to have Jamie Dorden in his first film. It's like literally a caption. She just like lists people on them. But it's okay. That's fine. She, you know,

she has used other languages. Can I like dig in a little deeper on that? Wait, but let me just finish. She says that she, um, she, the idea for the color palette of this movie came from a Mark Jacobs show that was inspired by the Laudere Macarones. And then so it goes from fashion show to to this movie to then like every mall in America. Right. Right. Very influential. Yeah, but the, you know, but the fashion and the, and like the art world, music of it all, she references like photographers a lot and did study photography. So, so that, that is her language, not speaking. Yeah, and now full circle with making a Mark Jacobs documentary, you know, 20 years later.

I mean, they have been like friends and collaborators for many, many years. So I think this movie has quite a lot to say about what women are and are not allowed to do and what they represent and maybe why they are demonized in ways that men are not demonized. And, you know, like I said, an ingenious conceit behind this idea, even though she very comfortably like fudges with. the history, you know? Like, this is not meant to be a dramatic recreation of the facts. It is inspired by an Antonia Fraser or Frazier biography that is historical, but it's like a reinterpretation of this idea of Marie Antoinette, who, you know, who did not say let them eat cake reportedly.

So those captions, like the, this is not my belief, but this is something that you hear about, so if you go up a couple of years. That the inarticulation is representative of no, they're there. You know, that like... But that's like... I mean, that's both being sexist and, like, not having eyes. Because another thing that Sophia Coppola does in her filmmaking that makes me vibrate with excitement is she is one of the most...

observant and judgiest people in all the great land and the judging is communicated through a camera angle the judging is communicated through what is included and what is seen and what is not seen and why is this person wearing makeup like that and why is this shoe here and why are we looking at something this way and what is the perspective so she sees all and this is like a a pretty vicious movie about everyone involved, and, you know, is definitely sympathetic to Marie Antoinette, but also, like, she really just does, like, disappear in the countryside to, like, read Rousseau and is it Rousseau that she's reading in, like, a pretty stupid way? Like, I don't think that particular scene is filmed, like, they're, you know. No, it's a movie about a princess who's lived in

absolute, but, you know, it does not feature her being beheaded. You know, for example, like, there are elisions of truth. Yeah, it's not punishing her. What's not allusions? I mean, it's just... I think you would go to a Marie Antoinette movie expecting to see a beheading. I think that's reasonable to assume.

That is the thing that people know most about her beyond, like, a knee kid. Yeah, I mean, you see the crowd showing up and you see, like, the final wrecked room. And I love that. That's another example of... To me, I'm not criticizing it. I think that that is an artistic gesture.

It is, like, very considered and smart. And not showing the beheading is obviously very intentional. It is very purposeful that what we don't need to do is to show a woman being butchered in the face of this revolution. Now, reasonable people can disagree about that,

but I really like that there are a lot of choices being made here. Lost in Translation is an interesting movie because it feels very worked out in real time. It's very naturalistic. It's funny, and it's a lot of fun to watch, but you can feel Bill Murray kind of like making parts of the movie

up with Sophia and Scarlett Johansson in real time. It has his antic energy. Yes. This is a very framed and imagined and executed film. Like, it is very specific to your point about what we're seeing and what we're not seeing. It feels it's, it is deeply a tourist, you know, in a way that, like, not, even not a lot of costume dramas are. Like, costume dramas feel like they're trying to, like, adapt a book or hit history.

And this being such a dramatic reimagining of the world, I feel like, is one of the big achievements of it. Yes. And another thing of, it's, you expect certain music cues, you expect certain, like, even like character development in a costume drama. And this is a coming of age story in a way, but she does also then not really pay attention and then is beheaded. Like, you know, even if you don't see it, like the last, the last shot of Marie Antoinette is her saying, like, I'm saying goodbye to the palace. of Versaise. So, you know, but it subverts everything that someone like me who grew up on Virgin Ivory movies, like, expects to see in this type of film. Yeah, we've been preparing for a Daniel Day Lewis episode. Yeah. And I watched a Room of the View recently, which is a very good movie. It was your first time, right? Yeah. And I was surprised by how, Those films don't have energy, and I don't mean that as a criticism. So, I think that's unfair to Room with a View in particular, because the field scene.

I mean, there's beauty in the film. It's swooning. There is a lack of electricity. They're like a very analog films, you know, and this is not an analog film, even though it is a time without a lot, without electricity. You know what I mean? That's sort of, that's the point I'm trying to make. I'm not trying to denigrate a Room of the View, which I thought was good. But this movie feels like it's plugged into something.

And that's hard to accomplish in costumes You know, you don't really see that very often With this kind of thing I think the soundtrack does a lot of heavy lifting Of course I think it like lights up a lot of moments It's also very helpful that Her taste is so funny

Because half of it is here's what I liked when I was 12 You know, like bow, wow, wow And you know, I discovered gang of four And all that stuff And then half of it is here's what I thought was cool And I was 26 And it's like strokes Which is like

Which is honestly for us is great. I honestly, I had forgotten the strokes needle drop until my rewatched and I was just like, oh, wow, like this really is sort of my Rosetta Stone. Yeah, totally. I mean, that's one of their best songs and perfectly used in this. And there is like, it's, to me, the music in this movie always felt like this fine-grained combination of here's why I'm cool and here's why I'm sincere, which I think is a good, that's kind of the Sophia Coppola project, right? Like she's cut she is really plumbing the depths of her experiences And she's trying to through her characters Show how she feels as a person

That's what all great filmmakers do Right especially writer directors But you know she's like I'm fucking cool Like I'm in the cool stuff My shit looks cool You know my hair is nice And that is a big part of what she's interested That is a big part of what you're interested in too

And this movie communicates that I think more than most of the other movies That's not it's not There is a coolness too somewhere but that's not what the movie's interested in. The two characters is like it's a young girl and it's a guy who's kind of like a little, starting to get a little washed out in his life.

Yes, exactly. Bling Ring is about like trying for that. Right. It's kind of like the mirror image of this in a lot of ways. Yeah, and then, and you could also tell in Blingring that like she's not comfortable in those aesthetics. Like, you know, TMZ, like the Paris Hilton of it all

is not what Sophia Coppola thinks is cool or how she would dress. Yes. And so like there is a disdemeanor. comfort in the filmmaking that is because it just doesn't look the way she thinks things should look. I think that's super insightful.

Because she has sympathy for those girls but doesn't really get it. No. Like she's not of that world. And yeah, the more recent films are her entering, I think different levels of abstraction through her ideas.

You know, the beguiled, even on the rocks, and especially Priscilla to me, are... kind of like late style, you know, where you're like, I know what you're interested in. Yeah. No one is better at this kind of production design. Like, you make these movies beautiful. There's a real cleverness to the writing and the framing of especially the female characters.

I think Priscilla is very good. Priscilla, like, is this movie in a lot of ways on a smaller scale and budget, obviously. And in a later period of life, right? Like, it's 20 years after Marie Antoinette. So Sophia Coppola is, you know, 20 years on this journey of being, you know, the young woman in a gilded cage with, like, perfect taste. So I find it interesting in a way to watch her, like, revisit, like the same idea, but now with teen daughters of her own. Yeah. But, yeah, I mean, she's got a house style.

It's important. To me, her analog is not in this conversation from my perspective is not her father or Scorsese or even her Gen X contemporaries. like Tarantino or PTA or whatever, it's Paul Schrader where it's like every Paul Schrader movie is kind of the same movie. It's in a different world. It's in a different time. The person has a different job,

but the hallmarks are so consistent that if you only see two, you might say to yourself, like, why are you repeating this idea? But if you see 10, then you're like, well, I'm so happy to be back inside this person's head. And this movie is a very, very elevated example of being inside of Sophia's head.

Last night when I was like getting really wild with the outline. I was like, in some ways, this is like my taxi driver, you know? It totally is. Now that you bring up all Shrader. It totally is. But it's like, you know, they have, they have some things in common, and then Sophia Coppola would not be caught dead on Facebook. So. Well, not yet. You know, when she's on TikTok in five years. She is on Instagram.

Okay. Well, but not like going live. No. Has she reviewed one battle on? No. She only uses it to. No, did he? He said, the filmmaking was A-plus level. However, I kept waiting for Leo and Sean Penn to die through the entire film.

Okay. Well, that sounds like a very Paul Schrader take. It certainly is. I agree with that. On filmmaking. First of all, I think we should say some of the names of the people who worked on the movie because you're right to point them out. Why don't you do it since you put this together? Okay.

So, this was shot by Lance Accord, which is the last Lance Accord movie. Unless Sophia Lance Accord collaboration. He made a movie called God's Pocket with John Slattery, the actor from Mad Men. That's the last movie he shot. That's over 10 years ago. But he shot, you know, Lawson Translation and also many of Spike Jones's movies when they were. Because this is after the Spike Jones. The split.

Yeah, Spike Jones is in the featurette for the making of Lawson translation. He's there at the beginning. And then he's not there at the end. and he's not there at the Oscars. They are starting to split. Yeah, well, yeah, because we've seen Lost in Translation. But Lance Accord shot where the Wild Things are after this movie. So he managed to bridge the gap.

Yes. Costume design by Melana Kenanaro, a four-time Oscar winner, including for this film. Yes. And also for Barry Lyndon, right? I believe so. Yeah. And a Clockwork Orange. Yeah. I think she made like four movies of the Cooper.

Yes. she's also she's the costume director for Megalopolis so if you've seen Megadoc you can see her mask just being like no I need to vet

like every single person's drape just to give you an idea of the energy but like the wardrobe undertaking is phenomenal in this movie I think she has also been

Wes's Wes Anderson's costume designer since like Grand Budapest maybe definitely Grand Budapest because she won an Oscar for that and then through Phoenician's game

she's a genius a legit genius 60 people on the wardrobe crew, seven transport drivers, 10 rental houses near Versailles for all of the storage and everything. Like, that is action filmmaking, but for

costumes. No, seriously. Yeah, this is your Michael Bay movie. And it's absolutely, I mean, they're beautiful. They're incredible. I wouldn't want to wear any of them, but you know, that's the point. And then hair by O'Dill Giber, including the very large, who did, like, a lot of

hair for Galliano, which was some of the inspiration. Okay. And then flowers by Tieri Boutemi. And I know this because another of the captions in the archive was just, the flowers were by Tieri Boutemi. It was always a lift when they arrived. I love her so much. You know, her publishing imprint is called Important Flowers.

That's great. No one's gotten me any of those books. She's got a Chanel book. She's got a Virgin Suicides book. Like, I'm waiting. Anyway. Well, one day you'll turn 40 and you'll get them. I think that someone should do a coffee table book

about this show with those kinds of captions. I think we should have Chris write captions like that about various episodes we've recorded together. Hell of a cast. Yeah. And they're not quite discoveries, but a lot of people at very early stages of their career. You mentioned Jamie Dornan.

This is the first time I'd ever seen him for sure. Gotta be one of the first times I ever saw Tom Hardy. Black Hawk Down is the first time I saw him for sure. but then after that, this might be the next thing I saw him in some years later. And then Rose Byrne is a huge part of this movie. Great.

Incredible entrance. She's wonderful throughout the film. She's so beautiful. But she's great in this movie. She's very funny. Thank you for coming all the way from Sweden. Yeah, I was reading about her character and literally in the Wikipedia page of her character,

she's described as a favorite of Marie Antoinette. And I was like, okay, well, that explains it. And, you know, if you like the movie, the favorite, there's certainly some aspects of that story in here. And then you mentioned the Great Rip Torn, Marianne Faithful playing her mother. Judy Davis as sort of the countess. Danny Houston as her brother,

phenomenal in one scene of this movie. Two scenes, I guess. Basically, you win an Oscar and then you use it to have Danny Houston petting an elephant at Versailles. Okay? Like, that is art. It's a good choice. It's a very, very good choice. Shirley Henderson, Steve Coogan, two British actors.

We tend to see a lot of films like this. Steve Coogan as the ambassador. And like trying to play it straight. and serious, but the fact that you've cast Steve Coogan in this role underlines the absurdity of it all? But it's a good choice because there is something, especially in the second half of the movie that I love Tonally, where it's like things are really bad in France right now.

And her being kept in this little Easter egg, this Fabrije egg that has been built around her. And he is one of the only people who is giving her information that could encourage her to realize what is happening, but he's doing it in such a careful, restrained, don't fire me kind of way that he's well cast. Yeah.

Who else? What other names haven't we said? We've said Kirsten Nuts once, but this is... Tell me about her performance. What do you like about it? Well, I mean, it's amazing how young she is in it now, you know, which just because she's kept working and I'm glad to have her. She is...

She's actually supposed to be even younger, right? Wasn't Marie Antoinette, like 15? Yeah. And when, I mean, they age her down, but it's like a pretty wide age range. Yeah. A vulnerable, mean girl, just a mix of all of the emotions that I do think that you feel if you're 15, 16, 17. But like, you know, you want other people to like you. You also want to edge some people out.

There is an obliviousness. but also like a sweetness to everything that she's doing. And just, you know, her face can communicate so much. And this is a film that it's like maybe the ultimate reaction shot film because it just cuts to people either in the crowd or Kirsten Dunst has just been like, or really? Or, you know, they're very, very funny. And then she gets some of, to me, like true, truly laugh out loud moments,

the one when she's forced to say hello to the contest, stewberry because of how Versailles works and he's like there are a lot of people at Versailles today like in her best Valley accent so funny and then later on she wants oak tree. The whole oak tree scene is up there for me

with her just like driving the golf cart away in melancholia which is like I need big trees. How long will that take? And then they're like hey you've run out of money and just like I'll take the small trees and then runs off and really I'll take the small trees

She's very, very... The choice also to obviously not have her perform a British accent or French accent or everything also very wise. Yes. And do you think that that made this movie more successful or less successful? Because, you know, critically, it's very split.

The accent? Just the whole conceit. Like, Roger Eber just got it. Like, he gave this movie four stars. He was like, this is a brilliant act of realization. But other critics were like, this is a silly, like, soft defense of Marie Antoinette. Right.

And they were judging both Marie Antoinette as well as, you know, they had the old interpretation and aren't really willing to get on board. And there obviously is a huge amount of, I mean, not a huge amount, but you can see the parallels between Sophia Coppola, daughter of one of the great American filmmakers, had a rough start in this, in the cinema. industry as an actress and then is now making

her own movie concerned with a lot of the things like I just likes fashion which I guess is completely superficial to some people I think it is considered frivolous by some but in the world of filmmaking it's hugely important right so people I think

are receiving some people received Marie Antoinette the movie from Sophia Copla as they received to Marie Antoinette, you know, at the time. Yeah. There's one other thing that you have here that I find really interesting. Oh, the cited influences. Oh, yeah.

So I had a couple of observations, a couple of questions for you about this. So she cites Kubrick. Barry Lyndon is an obvious perfect match double feature, and especially the characterization of Ryan O'Neill in Barry Lyndon opposite. So you can see huge inspiration points there. This is kind of like the flip, you know, spoiled, you know, person who gets their comeuppance in a lot of ways. Terence Malik, which is interesting. I mean, all the Petitrionom, which is the palace that she moves to at the end when she's, like, running around with the fields.

And that little French child is like, Petitabe, I love you, Petitabe, you know? Yes, the natural world, our relationships of the natural world. Milosh Foreman, which I guess his series of costumes, drama, so he's worked on over the years. And then Ken Russell's Listomania, which is his Gonzo biopic of Franz Liszt, the composer, like,

megastar composer. Now, Listomania is also the name of Phoenix's biggest hit, right? Yes, which, well, I, yeah, second. Yeah, yeah. And I think that's, no, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart is that album. The album, yes. I'm just curious.

Or Wolfgangominius Phoenix. Whatever. Did Thomas, did she put Thomas Mars onto Listomania did I mean I don't was he a big list guy like how of these things I like the idea of them just like hanging out

after work and talking about this yeah this is when they're getting together they're like Phoenix the band are like in the famous 2003 Lynn Hershberg profile like tied to Lawson translation you know so they're on the rain like Phoenix the band are literally in this film

they are when like the little foursome, like the quartet playing music for Marie Antoinette or Phoenix. And so, and I believe that they're also from Versailles. Okay. Like that, the French kids, they're like kid childhood friends from Versailles. So he is from Versailles. I don't know whether they are, it seems like a cross-cultural exchange of ideas, you know,

and they're getting together. That song comes on like 2008, 2009. I don't want to say she put him onto it maybe just a shared interest Yeah, I just think that's fun Yeah, it's good, it's good stuff And I like the idea of Ken Russell being an influence on her

It's not maybe not something I had thought about before But does make a lot of sense And he has also made a lot of costume dramas That break the rules You know, that that's something that is really cool About this movie is this sense That she keeps doing things that you're not supposed to do What else? What else do you want to say about this movie?

You won one Academy Award Yeah For costume design, which is the most, like, ironic, you know, self-realized thing imaginable that's like, we can only give this girly movie. Well, let's talk about the, like, so this did premiere can, which again is awesome from everyone involved. French didn't love it. They didn't love it. And so the legend is that it was, like, booed aggressively. And, like, before we were doing standing ovation meters or whatever at film festivals, it was like, did something get booed or not?

was the headline takeaway. I think that everyone's tried to walk that back and say that it did get an ovation, but the booze weren't. There were just a smattering of booze, which Europeans do. Iber wrote about this. He wrote that like,

this is just something that happens at can. It's not that big of a deal. Yeah, but it still, it did make headlines. And so it kind of got attached to the movie. Everyone was like pretty mixed to it. I think a lot of people did go to it expecting, you know, that Bill Murray zaniness. I, like, you know, Bill Murray is like the entrance ramp into Lawson translation for a lot of people and to Sophia World.

And that's, you know, one of the, what makes it a great movie. And she obviously responds to him. He's been in two more things that she's done, including a very Merry Christmas, which I think should have been eligible for this list. But we can only pick one Sophia movie. I do not. It's really delightful. Support you. Okay.

And you got your pick. No, I know. I did. Who are you arguing with? But so. then I saw this movie at the Cabal Hill Cinemas with my friend Maya. I've quoted this before, but the movie

ended in Maya just went, so she doesn't like a lot of words in her movies. This is, that was why I asked it. That's why I pitched the inarticulation question. You hear this over somewhere even more so. There's are there 100 lines of dialogue in that movie? Probably not. But, you know, they do the

teacup thing underwater while the best strokes B-side ever plays. I'm a huge fan of somewhere. It's not a judgment, but it is it is slow cinema for aspirin young women that is really this is the bellet tar

of girlies yeah and I agree with that okay anything in conclusion how are you feeling about this over loss in translation

you'll stand with me I mean you are standing with me you encourage me to do it I think it's the exact kind of thing I want us to be doing with this list

you know and I think this is the movie that kind of like gets the absolute core of you and it matters to you It does.

And it says something about how you feel about art, where the women are represented, et cetera, et cetera. And it's made by your favorite filmmaker. So I think it's great. Okay. I have no undermining interest whatsoever. I do think that she has other great films. Yeah.

I think Virgin Suicides Lost in Translation are in a very similar tier for me with Marie Antoinette. Totally. And then I think somewhere in Priscilla are in like the next tier for me. I would agree with that. As far as films I think are really, really good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The other stuff is a little more of a mixed bag. Same.

But, yeah, I feel really good about this. Any other recommended if you likes for this? So Barry Lyndon and Clueless were the first two that jumped out, which is really... Two great comedies. You know, the summation of my cinematic interests. That's right. But also the favorite, as you mentioned, Portrait of a Lady on Fire. Yes.

And bring it on. Which is, you know, about another, Kirsten Dunst stuck in another world of girls with some very strict rules. And she has to learn some hard truths. You got two Kirsten Dunst movies on this list. I don't fucking know I did. And then, of course, Civil War will be number one. So you'll get three Kirsten Dunst movies on this list, which is exciting. What are their acting credits?

I don't mind saying that the power of the dog will not be making it. Yeah. What else? Spider-Man will not be making it. No, sorry. Elizabeth Town will not be making it. If Elizabeth Town starred, uh, let me think.

Who could this have been? If it's our Joseph Gordon Levitt. Yeah. Instead of... I mean, a hard no for me. Okay, you prefer what we got in that film. I think that it's misconceived, you know? Sometimes...

I'm a defender. That's fine. I'm actually a hardcore defender. Okay, but it's this and Garden State that together are Manic Pixie, Dream Girl. It's really mostly Garden State, right? Yeah, I think there's definitely some like, why are you interested in this guy, energy from Kirsten Dunst in Elizabeth Town? but I don't think it's annoying. You know what would have been a really bold choice is Bachelorette.

That would have been a really, that would have been a ballsy pick. It's honorable mentions for sure. That movie absolutely rules. And then we'll be making space for a Roofman shortly. Yeah, I got to see that. Apparently she plays a woman named Lee Wainscott. Okay. What's Wainscoting?

What is that? Isn't that something in a home? Yeah, it's like indoor siding almost for the, I think. Cool. That very Sophia Coppola. a conceit. I don't know whether it's that or whether it's the trim at the

ceiling, you know, at the edge. I'll let you figure that out on your I don't know. That's the home decor podcast. That's the next phase of my life. Yeah, I know. I know. I see you. I see you. I have so many plants. Also, like, you know, the shot right before the I want

candy montage, it's when her sister-in-law has just had a baby. She runs in and she's like wearing one floral dress and like back on like another like flower floral wallpaper situation and I was like I like this pattern mixing you know like maybe this is what I'm going for this level of textile interplay I'm very happy to have allowed you to work these feelings out in public on a movie pod so you can get to your home influencer pod shortly thanks to our producer jack sanders for his work on this episode we have number nine coming not next week the week after I think

not even the, yes, the week after. The week after. You've got us on a pretty robust schedule in October. We have four 25 for 25s coming in October. Yeah. Because we really got to get to the end of this list. Okay. Nine, eight, and seven are really good.

Everything's really good at this point. Yeah. I agree with that. It's just, you know. Do you have any, you feel like this is the right placement for this one? Well, I was thinking about it. I was feeling a little bit of anxiety, you know, like when my heart is now on the line. Oh, sure.

This is like my big movie. And I appreciate you supporting me when I was thinking about it being at number 10. And this is like we're doing 25 for 25. So hopefully people will share the 25 movies. But if anyone did a top 10, this is good list making that Marie Antoinette is number 10. The top 10 is good in my opinion. But it's also in the most focused on that. In the same way that we had Michael Clayton at 25 because when you make a list, just some free journalism school for everyone at home, you need something to grab people at the top, something that they want to read, you know, want to hear about.

And they're also going to be like, wait, why is that so low or why is that there? I have some opinions about the placement. So I think this is good placement. We're just having fun. This is just a fun exercise for us. I love this movie. I'm very happy for you. We will be back later this week with an episode about the smashing machine.

And we will also best picture power rank because it's been a month since we were in Venice and Telly Ride. So we will see you on Friday.