The Big Picture - The 25 Best Movies of the Century: No. 15 - ‘Inside Llewyn Davis’

Episode Date: July 16, 2025

Sean and Amanda return to continue their yearlong project of listing the 25 best movies of the 21st century so far. Today they discuss Joel and Ethan Coen’s ‘Inside Llewyn Davis,’ starring Oscar Issac, one of the greatest depictions of a struggling artist of all time. They explain why this was their Coen brothers selection over ‘No Country for Old Men,’ celebrate its incredible balance between devastating dramatic moments and hilarious comedy, and highlight Issac’s fascinating career following this project. Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Producer: Jack Sanders THIS EPISODE IS SPONSORED BY THE STARBUCKS COFFEE COMPANY. ORDER NOW | STARBUCKS.COM/MENU Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Available now for a limited time only. your Strato Frappuccino blended beverage is ready at Starbucks. I'm Sean Fennessy. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is 25 for 25, a big picture special conversation show about Inside Lewin Davis. Should I sing right now? Please. Hang me oh hang me. Yeah that was slightly higher register. Hang me till I'm dead and gone. Alright, Inside Lewin Davis. Yeah. This is our Cohen Brothers pick. I'll tell you some details about this film before we dive into why we have chosen it. For the listeners at home it is written and and directed by the Coen brothers, Joel and Ethan.

It's produced by them and Scott Rudin, longtime producer of theirs, it stars Oscar Isaac, Carey Mulligan, John Goodman, Garrett Hedlund, F. Murray Abraham, Adam Driver, and Justin Timberlake. This movie is shot by Bruno Delbanel. We were talking before the recording of this episode, a very rare non-Roger Deakins shot movie for the Coens,

which is an interesting choice for us since we worship Deakins here on the show, edited by Roderick Jaynes, who is of course the Coen brothers. And this is another Coens music movie. And so the soundtrack is once again produced by T-Bone Burnett, just as O Brother or Art Thou was, and Marcus Mumford of Mumford & Sons, who in 2013 was an extremely successful and popular musician. And now, a little bit less so. But is also still married to one of the stars of this film, Terry Mulligan. So this movie is set in 1961.

It's about a New York City folk singer named Lewin Davis. He's at a crossroads. He's got his guitar. He's trying to figure out where he wants to go in life. He's trying to make a name for himself as a singing star, but he can't get out of his own way. And fate won't get out of his way either. And so, why did we choose this movie? I do think, if I remember correctly,

that the original list was No Country for Old Men, which is the accepted, both, you know, publicly and at the Academy, masterpiece of this century of the Coens. Fargo, not eligible, as my dad was sad to learn. GARRETT Yeah. AARON Raising Arizona, not eligible. You know, Miller's Crossing, not eligible.

Barton Fink, there's Blavowski. There's a million, you know, the A-tier of the Coens is very crowded, but no country is often considered the A-tier. Yes, and is very crowded. But No Country is often considered the A-tier. Yes, and it won Best Picture. And so, it's probably the most widely seen of their films. And... That's probably true.

It also came in 2007, which was one of the great years of American cinema in our lifetimes. And so, it being like the cream of the cream of the crop, makes it pretty significant. But I think I put No Country on and you pretty instantly were like inside Lew and Davis and I just said like, yes. And we didn't even have to talk it out.

So maybe we can actually decide why we can talk about why we are both. For me, you know, I did rewatch No Country also this week in order to like be able to justify it. I didn't this week in order to be able to justify it. I didn't do that. Or to be able to talk a little bit why. I felt even better. I rewatched Inside Lewin Davis once.

Was like, yeah, we smashed this. Then rewatched No Country again. And was like, oh wow, we really smashed it. And then rewatched Inside Lewin Davis a second time, because I hadn't seen it probably in like five maybe, yeah, five or seven years. And I think for me, in addition to, you know, the basic genre distinctions, obviously, like no country is a Western and, you know, I have limited patience for dust. And this is about like a struggling artist and like, and a very classic Cohen's just like loser guy,

a guy who it's just, it's not coming together and how much of it is his fault and how much of it is the world's fault. Actually it's both, but there is an emotion here and most of it is like anger and regret and stymied. But there are deeply felt moments compared with no country's total nihilism, which it's a feat of as well. But I just find that inside Lewin Davis and the Lewin Davis character stays with me more.

No Frills delivers. Get groceries delivered to your door from No Frills with PC Express. Shop online and get $15 in PC Optimum points on your first five orders. Shop now at nofrills.ca. I haven't revisited No Country yet. I, of course, think it is also a masterpiece. Listen, it's excellent. I'm not trying to be like. I, of course, think it is also a masterpiece. So to me, I'm not... It's excellent. I'm not trying to be like, yeah, you know, that's bad.

It's not that it's bad. I think it could be perceived as like trolling by not picking No Country. No Country is a movie that I love. I loved it when it came out. I still love it. I haven't revisited it in a little while. I mean, it's pretty fucked up in a good way.

And I think it is thematically consistent with what the Coens are interested in, which is sort of like everything's bad and there's nothing waiting for you at the end. You know, that's sort of where a lot of, especially this era of their films, you know, A Serious Man, which is really my favorite movie of theirs of the century, but I know not yours. So I was making that choice to pivot from No Country to another Coens. I thought Inside the Wendevils would be kind of a perfect meeting point because it is, as you said, a signature,

like a typical framework for them. The lead character, what he is doing, how he fits in the world, how the world accepts or rejects him. And it also is, like most of the best Coen's, funnier than No Country for Old Men. I think certainly more emotional, as you said. And the music element is pretty profound.

And it's really interesting to revisit this movie in the aftermath of A Complete Unknown. Which, you know, quite literally puts that story onto the screen as opposed to this, which is sort of a... draws inspiration from it and is clearly using figures very closely who are in the world, but isn't as concerned with the biographical detail

as it is with using this moment in time as a portal to talk about what it's like to be alive then and now. So I think this is an incredibly special movie. I will say when I first saw it, I remember vividly that I did like it, but that I didn't totally, I shouldn't say I I first saw it, I remember vividly, that I did like it, but that I didn't totally... I shouldn't say I didn't get it, but that because it is quite a meandering movie,

and it does not have the kind of like, rocket ship quality of No Country or even of True Grit, which is just like a... True Grit's like a crowd pleaser. You know, and True Grit was a big hit. And this movie comes after that movie. Those two movies are adaptations. This is an original. I've probably watched this movie six or seven times in my life. And it really deepens every time I revisit it

because of the themes, because of Oscar Isaac's performance, because of what I think it means to them, and how I think their best characters are often guys like this. Usually guys. Sometimes women, but usually guys. And so it's just a very deep and fascinating portrait of the American spirit, like the broken American spirit... Totally. ...that also features beautiful folk music.

So I feel pretty good about it. There's a variety of other things that we can talk through. Any... Do you want to talk through the other Coens that could have been contenders during this 25-year period? Like, Oh Brother is 2000. We could have talked about that. That could have been a pick.

And when my dad, uh, was trying to guess the movies on the list, and first guessed Fargo, sorry, and then he was like, okay, Coen Brothers. And he said, oh, is it the Odyssey one? And I instinctively said yes. And then I was like, wait a second. No, no, it's not the not Oh, brother. Yes, it's the other Odyssey one.

But but the cat is named Ulysses. And this is a person on a journey who returns home. Yeah. But like, can he get home is like sort of. And what is it is sort of the question. So, you know, I guess this is a stand in for Christopher Nolan's The Odyssey as well. They beat Nolan to The Odyssey twice before 2025. Yeah, we were talking about Burn After Reading,

which is the other film not filmed by Deakins. Yeah, the one Chivo, Emmanuel Lubezki shot that movie. I'm really, do we have a Deakins on our list? I'm really stressed. I don't think so. We don't? I don't think so. I mean, that's a spoiler, I guess.

And also maybe we fucked up a little bit. I'll pull up his filmography while you're speaking. Okay. But, you know, I do love Burn After Reading. That is pure black comedy. So we are tending, with the exception of the Anchormans, towards, like, the, you know, the Dark Knights of the Soul on this list in one way or another. I'm trying to think what else... Oh, yeah, the, you know, the Dark Knights of the Soul on this list in one way or another.

I'm trying to think what else... Oh, yeah, we do. We have Stephen Daldry's The Reader is on our list, which I'm super excited about. So there will be a Deakins entrant. Uh... That's a good one. Thanks. Appreciate it. Um...

Yeah, there's something really dark and something really light about this movie. I think every time it runs the risk of becoming too morose and self-pitying, he shows us, they show us. Yeah. really light about this movie. I think every time it runs the risk of becoming too morose and self-pitying, he shows us, they show us the slapstick that they're really gifted at. There's a lot of physical comedy in this movie, there's a lot of physical expression in this movie, but there's also a lot of time just looking at Oscar Isaac's sad face and his kind of mournful like, how did I, why am I getting fucked like this? You know, that sense of doom. And I think every single really...

dark or down moment in the movie also has humor in it, because... And this is one of the ways that I relate to the Coens, is like, they can only really deal with the bad stuff through, you know, a twisted, cynical sense of humor. So you have Oscar Isaac, like, absolutely pouring his like, like heart on the line for F. Murray Abraham. And you know, and that's like the like, his

big moment, it's shot like he's outside the pearly gates, you know, it's like, literally, like, is he going to make it? Or is it not? Is he not? And then, I don't see a lot of money here. Which is an absolutely cutting, essential, thematic line. And also, just fucking funny. Like really, really, and they just hold on F. Murray Abraham and he's just like, it's devastating.

And still a little bit of wit. Or when he plays for his father. It's just like, it's devastating and still a little bit of wit. Or when he plays for his father and there's like, are they connecting? Like what's going on without words here and through this music and then there is some scatological humor. So it's, there is, they're working through it

and you can feel them like working through it in these moments where sometimes in some of the other movies that's like a little closed off. So... I think that's partially because they've talked in the past about how they don't map out their movies. Like they just start writing and then they just write through to where they think it should go. And a lot of the times they end up with something

that is very tight and very, you know, it can be a little suffocating, their world. If you can't get onto their register, you can't get oxygenated with the Coens, then they can be limiting for some people. Obviously, they're in a very rare air for me. I love pretty much all their movies give or take one or two. But this movie is a little bit warmer and a little bit colder at the same time. Yes. And that balance of those temperatures,

I think, is really special here. And I don't see a lot of money here thing, is definitely one of the reasons why I think this movie is so profound, because it's like these are two guys who, I'm not sure if it's a bit rude as a point of view for the film, because these are two guys who basically never compromised, who always made what they wanted to make, came out of independent cinema and firmly believed in their point of view,

and somehow turned themselves into not just artistically, but commercially successful artists. I mean, they've made movies that have made a hundred million dollars. Yeah. And, you know, you point out the conversation between Carey Mulligan's character and Oscar Isaac's character, where he says you were calling me a careerist. No, she does. She says you were calling me a careerist. No, she does. She says, you were calling me a careerist and I was calling you a loser.

Yeah. And that's a really fascinating exchange because he is attacking her for wanting a suburban life, children, comfort. And she is mocking him for having this kind of over-managed, sacred idea about artistry, which is bullshit. You know, like there is certainly a universe where you can have both of those things, but because he's a person who is both unwilling to compromise and not shrewd,

which is a very devastating place to be if you're an artist, you gotta get really lucky. Now, whether the Coens are actually very shrewd business people or creatives, they might be. You know, they've consistently been able to get really lucky. Now, whether the Coens are actually very shrewd business people or creatives, they might be. They've consistently been able to get movies made for 40 years. But coming from, it's like, this is rich coming from you is how I feel watching the movie sometimes.

Not in a bad way. And then there's another thing too, which is about sort of like the fractious and bickering nature of artists, where you've got inside the folk scene, a lot of different philosophies around what is and is not folk music. You've got a jazz musician who really looks down

on the folk beat. You've got a beat poet who sort of like doesn't relate to anybody and feels completely alienated. Doesn't say anything. Barely speaks. Except for his terrible beat poetry. Yes. And even, I mean, the...

The rivalries and the disrespect among the folk community. And, you know, Oscar Isaac, or Lewin Davis, is like the pure folk singer, quote-unquote, but that has diminishing returns. And then he is surrounded by people who are... performing and portrayed in this film as just completely insufferable, like very funny. And then he's surrounded by people who are performing and portrayed in this film as just completely insufferable, like very funny. It's mean, but also great.

And typified, you know, most thoroughly, by Justin Timberlake in one of the great casting coups of anyone's career. I would love to know how aware Justin Timberlake is of how he was used in this movie. Because he is the classical... Yeah. ...pop tool. I don't mean like tool like in a derogatory sense,

but I kind of do. I thought you actually did. I kind of do. I do think he eventually became a kind of interesting pop star. And I definitely enjoy his solo albums. But he was a boy band machine and he is identified in this movie as a guy who is basically willing to compromise his folk ethics to write novelty tunes for record labels about going to space. And at this time, Justin Timberlake was the voice of McDonald's. And that's an

ingenious stroke by the Coens. And this is three years after he is the asshole billionaire in the social network. So he must have some awareness, but also like all evidence of the 10 years after this, or 12 years, and this is gonna ruin the tour, suggests that perhaps not. Maybe he doesn't. Maybe he didn't get it. Maybe he didn't know that he was being identified by frankly very cold-hearted auteur filmmakers like David Fincher and the Coen Brothers.

Uh, anyhow, they took advantage of his fame. And this... You think Timberlake's really into Zodiac? And so he's like, yeah, I'm gonna, that's what I'm gonna... I think it's possible that he thinks he is. Okay. You know what I mean? Sure.

So the other thing about this movie too is that he is... His character is being cucked so hard by Lewin Davis because he is a member of Gene and Jim, this couple with Carey Mulligan. Do we even, I guess we see them perform together one time, but we very rarely see them perform together one time, but we very rarely see them interacting with each other. Yeah, with the other guy.

Yeah, the third. Yes. But otherwise, yes, they basically... They're seated at the table in the club for one moment, but she goes away very quickly because she doesn't want to be involved. It's a very clever semi-self-referential joke. Adam Driver, also hilarious in this movie, as Al Cote... Outer Space.

The cowboy counterpart to Jim. And this is early girls' era. Like, this is pretty early Adam Driver. And also very exciting, but early on the scene. It's right on the precipice of The Force Awakens, when he is set to become a bigger movie star. I sure wish I could have had at least one more, one movie where Adam Driver was the star of a Coen Brothers movie. I... He's maybe like a little too big and strong.

That's not really what they do. He would need to be a little lankier. Not a lot of broad-chested men. Yeah, I mean, in this era, he was lankier. You know, he's l linky in this movie. They're not a lot of swole guys, but, you know, maybe he could cut back on the macros. Hey, we know you probably hit play to escape your business banking, not think about it. But what if we told you there was a way to skip over the pressures of banking?

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Conditions apply. To me, the number one reason why this movie is going in is because I think it's the best movie about a very specific idea, which is being the other guy. And we learned this at the end of the movie because there's a big reveal in terms of the circular structure of the movie. But it's clear if you know anything about the folk scene from the first moments based on the songs that Oscar Isaac's character is singing, that the movie is modeled on Dave Van Ronk. Dave Van Ronk was a contemporary of Bob Dylan,

one of the signature folk artists of the Greenwich Village scene. In real life, not an asshole in the way that Lewin Davis is, but how... His Wikipedia page is just like, he was lovely and was interested in all, like, types of music and a founding member of the Greenwich Village community. Yeah, I mean, he is a big part of No Direction Home,

the Martin Scorsese, Bob Dylan documentary, which is really, really great if people haven't seen that. I talked about it during the Complete Unknown episode. And you can see he's just, he seems like a nice man. Yeah. So it's not ideal that this happened to him. Although I will say, Oscar Isaac is certainly a bit more handsome than Dave Van Ronk was.

So there's a trade-off there. But Van Ronk is a guy who is like very loyal to the folk cause, the artistic cause, understood a lot of historical American forms of music and sat deeply in the scene and also watched Bob Dylan hit the scene and Bob Dylan take off like a rocket and then leave the scene. And kind of leave behind a lot of these figures. And the fact that there's a movie that is focusing on the guy who didn't win is tremendously unusual.

There's just not a lot of examples, especially in the world of the arts... Amadeus, but that's it. It's featuring F. Murray Abraham. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is, but at least that movie has a lot of... Yes, it does. Wolfgang in it, you know?

Yeah, you understand. You see him conducting and you're like, he's Mozart. It's doing both. It's the idea, but not the execution. This movie as a kind of counter, and that would make a good double feature, actually, but this movie as a counter. We only see Bob Dylan perform once, but when we see him perform in the final moments of the movie, it also makes sense, because even though his voice is not as purely beautiful, as, you know, in key,

as Oscar Isaac's voice, there's money there. There's something there with Dylan. And so the whole movie is this psychological portrait of a guy, maybe deep down knowing, but not being able to accept that he's the other guy. That he's not the winner. You know, he keeps impregnating women who he's not dating. His musical partner has jumped off the George Washington bridge.

He's lost a cat. Yeah. He signs lost a cat. Yeah. He signs away the royalties. Well, he lost someone else's cat. And then he has a tango with his own cat. But he can't even commit to the cat. Some cat trouble in this movie.

And he signs away the royalties to the Please Mr. Kennedy song. Yeah. Which is, in the moment, you're like, the slow moving car crash. What are you doing? Don't sign away the royalties to your pop song. No! You fool, just because you need 200 bucks. So, yeah, it's a... it's a miserablest doomed man... Mm-hmm.

...in a Coen Brothers movie. But funny, with great songs. So, easy pick, I think. I don't know. What do you think the, like, standing reputation of this movie is right now? I think that it's really admired, but I don't think it's trollish to include this. I guess it's maybe, like, a little counterfactual,

but that's what we do here. But I think also, anecdotally, I told my husband, like, oh, yeah, we're doing Inside Lewin Davis, and he was like, that's sick. And then he was like, I'll come watch it with you. And was like, I love that you guys are doing this one. So then I told him some other feature picks and he's like, I don't agree. So, you know, to me, that was a good sample size. You know, like, look, we got it.

I think admired, but not celebrated in the same way. And I don't know whether that's because it mirrors, like, the other guy trajectory. Mm-hmm. Can I suggest the theory about this? OK. At the time when the movie was coming out, we were at the very beginning of the Oscar Isaac moment. Yeah.

So he had appeared in Chris Ryan's beloved Born Legacy as the third guy. And then he has a run of Inside Lewin Davis, Most Violent Year, Ex Machina, and culminating in Star Wars The Force Awakens. And he was being presented to us in The Force Awakens as the new Han Solo, the dashing rebel. And The Force Awakens made the new Han Solo. Yeah. The dashing rebel. And The Force Awakens made a billion dollars and was a massive success. And he was very good at it. He's great in the movie.

I think that character is a little underwritten. The thing is that Han Solo was also in that movie. So, you know. Not ideal. The other thing is that Adam Driver was in that movie. And I think the takeaway from that movie, which people liked, was that, you know, Adam Driver, then I think also Daisy Ridley were the real standouts. And he was a slightly older guy trying to seem cool. And Oscar Isaac has not stopped working since that movie. He's had a very successful career. He is a little bit closer to like

an A-plus character actor now than he is a leading man. And the leading man thing never fully concretized. And so now maybe this movie is a leading man. And the leading man thing never fully concretized. And so now maybe this movie is a little bit more forgotten than it would have been if he had been in hit after hit after hit in the last 10 years. What do you think about that? And also slightly more prophetic, you know? But it's all baked into the thing.

It like low-cancered energy. Damn, I hadn't even thought of that. Yeah, but the sense that he is playing the other guy, the person who doesn't quite have whatever it is. And a movie that I think is artistically sublime, but didn't commercially break through in the same way that their previous films had, wasn't recognized at the Oscars, is sort of this diamond that no one's paying attention to because Bob Dylan's over here.

Yeah, it's... I guess it's not surprising because there's not anything terribly commercial about period piece about a made-up person who loses. Like, that's just not... That's not... It's hard to sell that. Yeah. The Academy is interesting though, you bring that up because they had this grand moment

of acceptance. In 96 with Fargo, they were nominated for Best Picture, they won an Academy Award for their screenplay. That was like a Hollywood arrival moment for them, but No Country for Old Men was picture director, screenplay, supporting actor. This is the best movie of the year. Over There Will Be Blood and Michael Clayton.

And Zodiac and a whole host of other movies. Atonement and there's like, 07 as we know, like you mentioned at the top, it's just a crazy lot roster of movies. Is that Juno also? I believe it's also the Juno. Aye, aye, aye. This movie, I think only got two Oscar nominations.

And you can make a case, I'm not sure if I would make this case, but you could make a case that... Serious Man, True Grit, and this movie is one of their tightest three film runs. Yeah. I mean, it's funny because I think most people... I guess Burn After Reading's in the middle, so you can't do...

No, it's before. Burn After Reading is before... I think most people, I guess Burn After Reading's in the middle, so you can't do... No, it's before. Burn After Reading is before... I think it's before. No Country. No, it's No Country, Burn After Reading, True Grit, Lou and Davis. No, A Serious Man, True Grit, inside Lou and Davis. Right, right, right. But I guess like most people would kind of swing back towards No Country to try to make the trio, but I agree with you.

Yes, they have many interesting three movie formulations where they're running hot. But those are three incredibly different movies. A Serious Man, True Grit and Inside Llewyn Davis. And people were just like, this is good. Yeah. And then they've made other films that we love since then, but this is looking back.

I love Hail Caesar. Love Hail Caesar. I love Hail Caesar too, but like Hail Caesar is, you know, they're having fun. And they got Channing Tatum doing Gene Kelly and George. It's them in hug sucker proxy mode. Yeah. And a little bit of like burn after reading mode as well.

And you have great affection for Ballad of Buster Scruggs. And you do not because it's an anthology. Yeah, I do. I think it's a great movie. But still, it's not major works. It's not. So I was kind of surprised when I was looking back at the filmography. I was like, oh, this was kind of like the last Coen Brothers masterpiece.

There's certainly a case for that. I know. And it's 12 years ago now and they haven't made a movie together since the Ballad of Buster Scruggs, which is six years ago. And that's often forgotten aspect, I think, of the amazing year of 2019

is there was also a Coen Brothers movie that year. It just happened to be on Netflix. So it doesn't have the same connection. Yeah, though at the time, people are making memes out of it. So this is great. Yeah, some good memes. Some really good performances in there. I mean, the James Franco meme persists to this day, you know, first time.

So six years since they've made a movie together, Ethan Cohn is about to release this summer his second movie. I think this one is actually officially co-directed with Tricia Cook. I can't remember with his wife. I can't remember if Drive Away Dolls was officially credited as co-directed, but they've been writing these movies together. Joel Cohen has made one movie, The Tragedy of Macbeth, which was released I think in 2021. And I've heard rumors that they're going to get back together and do something else,

but Joel Cohen is 70. It kind of took me, it kind of braced me to read that Joel Cohen is 70 years old. So it's not that a 70 year old can't make a movie, of course they can. Marty Scorsese is going to make a movie at 85 years old. But time is getting short. And how many more Cohen Brothers movies will we get in this lifetime? For me, that's quite sad.

You know, I really, they were a big trampoline for me, taste-wise. Totally. Taught me a lot about how to watch movies. And then I watched one of the special features on the Criterion of Inside the Lou and Davis last night. It was a conversation between Guillermo del Toro and Joel and Ethan. Joel and Ethan don't do like a ton of long-form interviews. It was a 40-minute conversation with GDT. And they just talked at length about

influence and things they like and how they put it in their movies. And part of the conversation was that they always rewatch a couple of movies, or at least they did in the 80s and 90s before starting a new movie. This is something that Barry Sonnenfeld, their original long-time cinematographer, revealed publicly once. And then they're like, God damn it, now we've got to talk about this for the rest of our careers. But one of the movies was The Third Man,

which I always say is my favorite movie. And like, I don't, did I read once that they said that that was their favorite movie and that led me to The Third Man? I can't remember. But it's possible. And their films and what their films put in front of people, you know, Preston Sturgis is also a huge influence on them. I love Preston Sturgis that was another person who like unlocked in my 20s those are my favorite comedies in my 20s so it's crazy to look

at their career and be like they're not gonna do anything else it's quite sad in a time when you can't get old people out of the paint you know these guys want to make a movie together. Have they said that publicly like they haven't because they don't do very much publicly at all. But they're not really. It's not trending that way. No. So one thing that I do think is interesting about this movie

specifically is it did make the New York Times 100 Movies poll. It hit at 83, which is pretty good. And then it hit 95 on the reader's choice. So it does have some standing. Sure. 95, I would say, is pretty good for the century, for the readers, for a movie that didn't make any money. Yeah. I'm kind of happy about that.

But those two Oscars that they got no money for, just cinematography and sound mixing, I guess there's no original songs in the film, because they're all folk traditions. Yeah. Once again, that's such a stupid category. Do you have a favorite performance in the movie? Like a favorite musical performance? Yeah, I think the...

What is it? The Ballad of Queen Jane. Whatever he plays at the Gate of Horn. Yeah, for Bud Grossman. For Bud Grossman, yeah. Is pretty, like, gut-wrenching. And the Oscar Isaac performance is amazing because in almost everything he's doing as like a talking, walking person, he is closed off, sad looking, and then he puts it all into the songs.

And so when he is singing, I mean, he can sing, but also like the actual depth of performance. I'm on record as saying is most people he can sing, but also, like, the actual depth of performance. I'm on record as saying, as most people shouldn't sing, but this is one of these situations where he is doing a lot with his singing. And that is... those three minutes or whatever is when it all bubbles up. Like, the hope and the, you know, maybe it's gonna work out. And even the text of the song itself is like, no, it's actually not gonna work out. You even the text of the song itself is like, no, it's not actually not gonna work out. You know, like a folk song without a happy ending.

Um, but it's the, that's the most memorable. Yeah, I like them all. I mean, we get to see him sing, Hang Me Oh Hang Me a couple times. Green Green Rocky Road is a song I listened to on the way to school drop-off this morning with my daughter. She did not ask me to turn it off. Always a good sign when she does not try to grab the aux cord from me

at eight o'clock in the morning. Um, Oh Brother, Where Art Thou? Yeah. The music was such a major part of that. The movie sold, the soundtrack sold eight million copies. The movie did pretty well at the box office. Not a huge hit. I always sense that you're like not, it's not your favorite. Is it because it's the more, more slapsticky mode of the Coens?

Yeah. And it's not that I don't like, they're very good at that and I, I appreciate it, but I don't know. Honestly, when Clooney is trying that hard to be funny, it, unless it's, and it's, I guess it's sort of making fun of him and Burn after reading it, he's making a lot of fun of himself. Yes. But yeah, it doesn't quite land for me comedically the way the others do. Yeah, I like it quite a bit,

but it does feel kind of stacked in the middle. I know for some people, like I know David Shoemaker, for example, that's his favorite Coen Brothers movie, and one of his favorite movies of all time, which I was surprised to hear when he said that, but I know it holds a special place, and I think some people will look at the list and be like, well, that is 21st century and it's a music movie.

Sure. And it's the Odyssey. Yeah. And it's an arc about a loser. Well, guess what? We have another one. Uh, we do. Um, a Complete Unknown.

Yeah. Does this movie look better after Complete Unknown? Are they just a perfect match for two different filmmaking sensibilities? Does it, how do you feel? No, it definitely looks better. Yeah, come on. Because it, and it is also,

I think that the, I mean, it's a great double feature also because what a Complete Unknown is doing and like sort of interrogating, but also not interrogating. Like the lack of interrogation in A Complete Unknown, to me is a little bit interesting. But it does also have like the 4,000 shots of everyone gazing adoringly. And this is just like 4,000 shots of Oscar Isaac being like, I fucking hate you.

Yeah. That's the thing that's so interesting is a complete unknown, I think this was a great choice. This is the best thing about the movie. But a complete unknown feels like James Mangold watched Inside Lewin Davis, watched the last 30 seconds of Bob Dylan singing Farewell. Yeah. And then was like, I'm gonna make a whole movie like that. Where we're at a distance, we're at a remove. Bob Dylan singing Farewell. Yeah. And then was like, I'm gonna make a whole movie like that.

Where we're at a distance, we're at a remove. Mm-hmm. We cannot deny the power and beauty of what this person represents. But it is still mysterious to us. Yeah. And we will not really process someone on the outside of that experience as much. Those are the only people that we get to really feel their feelings. But...

They're really neatly matched. It's really cool that like ten years later, you basically get a response movie. The response, the response movie is like a little bit more... rote, typical. Sure, a little bit more commercial. And that is, I think... the performances in the response movie are very good. I think... the, the cinematography and the production design

and just the recreation of the village in Inside Lewin Davis is unsurprisingly, like, pitch perfect. Yeah. And so when you compare the two of them, Complete Unknown just looks a little bit more like they put Instagram filters on something, you know? Sometimes. You know what that movie...

A Complete Unknown gets something right though that a lot of the folkies were really mad about with Inside Llewyn Davis, which is that it feels like a kind of more like rambunctious time of revelry in the folk scene where it's like everybody kind of knew each other. It was very competitive, but people were getting drunk and they were having sex and it felt more like a scene. I mean, they're getting drunk and having sex in this movie. It's just that that's experienced in different and sad ways.

A very mournful version of sex, though. You know, a very mournful version of drinking. It doesn't, there's not a lot of celebration. And so I think, you know, a lot of these boomers looked back at this movie when they released it. Yeah. And they were like, ironically, why did we let these guys from Minnesota,

of course, where Bob Dylan comes from, make a movie about Greenwich Village in the 60s? They didn't get how fun everything was. But that's not the idea of the movie. The idea of the movie is... Or the idea of the Coen brothers. Well, they can have fun, but there's always having... Yeah, it's not how they have fun. They're having fun in God's universe, you know? Not their own universe. And we are all stuck in God's fate.

And that seems like a pretty good place to wrap this conversation. Any other double features you want to say? I mean, A Complete Unknown and Oh Brother, Where Art Thou Are obvious matches. Amadeus, now that we've come through. Amadeus was a great call. I like that a lot. I put train spotting.

Because train spotting, here's my thinking on this. There's not a lot of great movies about losers. Not a lot of great movies about, like, groups, like, groups, units, periods of time, you know? Yeah. The kind of English and Scottish smackheads of London in the 1990s. That's a scene, you know?

That is a scene. Is it as artistic as Inside Lewin Davis and what Lewin Davis was getting up to? Not exactly, but there's a kind of poetry to what... what those characters are talking about. I don't know, anything else spring to mind? No, I mean, A Complete Unknown just jumped out. And I guess for most people, if you've seen A Complete Unknown recently enough that you can just go re-watch this

and it is a fun exercise. Okay. A Complete Unknown not on our list. No spoilers. No, it's not on our list. We've put two Wolverine movies by James Van Gold on our list. No spoilers. No, it's not on our list. We've put two Wolverine movies by James Van Gold on our list instead, which I'm really excited about.

So two Wolverine movies and the reader now everyone knows about. So that knocks us down to what number is this one? This is 15. How are you feeling? I feel great. Our next episode will be our live episode. We will be in Chicago revealing revealing at a secret screening, number 14. Well, it's not secret. It was announced and people bought tickets.

The screening is not secret. The title of the film is a secret. Can I ask you a question about this? Yes, you may. Because we're going to briefly intro the screening. At the Music Box Theater. At the Music Box Theater. And then we're going to record the episode live afterwards at the Music Box Theater. At the Music Box Theater. And then we're gonna record the episode live afterwards at the Music Box Theater. So when we go up to intro, are we gonna say what the movie is?

Or are we just gonna wait until it comes up on the screen? Amazing question. I think we should do the latter. And I have a... But this also... I'm asking now because this also affects... Jack and Sam agree. ...my wardrobe strategy. So...

Because so you won't wear the... the revealing item. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You have gear for this movie? Yeah. Listen, have you not thought about your wardrobe at all for this trip? Wait, you found the costume that Kate Winslet wore in The Reader and you were gonna wear it to this screening?

That's amazing. To be clear, I will not be wearing a Nazi costume in Chicago or ever. Seems like a great idea. That's bad. OK. I like what you're cooking up. I got to say, that's a good idea.

OK, thanks. I hope that's OK with the Music Box Theater. We wait for the title to hit. Yeah. Well, why wouldn't it be? That would learn five minutes later. I'm also curious, like, at what point, who's going to be able to tell from, like, the producers

or the credits? Like, at what point in the room does someone know what it is? I think there might be some music that is recognizable early on. OK. But we'll see. The real heads, the real big picture heads, we'll get it right away.

Do you think the real, real big picture heads already know what it is? There's been some guesses. Yeah. A popular guess was The Dark Knight because it was shot in Chicago and could have represented the city. And as we know now, that was not the case, was The Dark Knight because it was shot in Chicago and could have represented the city. And as we know now, that was not the case.

Not The Dark Knight. Okay. I'm very excited about that show. I'm very excited about our live show. I am as well. Which I can reveal it will be a draft, which will be fun. CR will be there. We gotta sidebar on the rules of that draft.

We can sidebar. Yeah. Yeah. Eligibility. I think we should just discuss. Or maybe we can save it for the stage. That's fine. That always goes well. People love it when you yell at me about the rules I've created. So maybe that's just a feature, not a bug of that episode.

Uh, thank you to Jack Sanders for his work on this episode. Uh, later this week, an Eddington podcast. Oh, wow. Adam Neiman will join us to discuss Ari Aster's new movie. on this episode later this week in Eddington podcast. Oh, wow. Adam Neiman will join us to discuss Ari Aster's new movie. Ari will also be on the show, had a nice long conversation with him about it. And I've just got an enormous amount of feelings about this movie.

Okay. I'm very excited to break it down. I'm gonna see it a second time. Okay. So that I can be a little sharper than I normally would be. And you feel excited to discuss it with me? I'm very excited to talk about it. Now I'm like, oh, when am I going to see it a second time?

Mom, going on Tuesday, if you'd like to come. Okay, I'll check the calendar. Okay, thank you for listening to the show. Thank you for listening to 25 for 25. Maybe we'll see you in Chicago. Maybe not. Thanks for watching!