The Big Picture - The 25 Best Movies of the Century: No. 17 - ‘Anchorman: The Legend of Ron Burgundy’

Episode Date: June 25, 2025

Sean and Amanda return to continue their yearlong project of listing the 25 best movies of the 21st century so far. Today, they discuss Adam McKay’s ‘Anchorman: The Legend of Ron Burgundy’ starring Will Ferrell, one of the most iconic comedies of all time. They highlight the wildly successful partnership of McKay and Judd Apatow, why they made the painfully difficult decision to choose this as their official studio comedy selection over ‘Superbad’, and celebrate Christina Applegate’s wonderful performance. Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Producer: Jack Sanders Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If you're a fan of the inner workings of Hollywood, then check out my podcast, The Town, on the Ringer Podcast Network. My name's Matt Bellamy. I'm a founding partner at Puck and the writer of the What I'm Hearing newsletter. And with my show, The Town, I bring you the inside conversation about money and power in Hollywood. Every week we've got three short episodes featuring real Hollywood insiders to tell you what people in town are actually talking about. We'll cover everything from why your favorite show was canceled overnight, which streamer is on the brink of collapse, and which executive is on the hot seat. Disney, Netflix, who's up, down, and who will never eat lunch in this town again.

Follow the town on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Sean Fennessy. I'm Amanda Dobbin. And this is 25 for 25, a big picture special conversation show about Anchorman, the Legend of Ron Burgundy. And I don't know how to put this, but I'm kind of a big deal. People know me. I'm very important.

I have many leather bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany, Amanda. How do you feel about those facts? I didn't realize until I rewatched that I had that full speech memorized. Like I could say it word for word. Very important, an important film, important text for our generation. Yes, let's explore why that is the case because I suspect we will be repeating a lot of lines of dialogue from this movie as we talk about it. I love Lamp! We do love Lamp here. This movie was released on July 9th, 2004. Special time in my life. Was living in New York City.

It is co-written and directed by Adam McKay. It's his directorial debut after an incredible run at Saturday Night Live where he formed an extraordinary partnership and bond with the other co-writer and star of this movie Will Ferrell. It also stars Christina Applegate, Paul Rudd, Steve Carell, David Keckner, Chris Parnell, Fred Willard, Cameo's galore. This is the beginning, the beginning, of the Apatow-McKay era of comedy, which also began to sort of suck up, hoover up and grow a great many stars, basically for a 15-year period, I would say, roughly through 2018, 2019. Right.

And then the pandemic. Pandemic kind of killed it. Yeah. And then the slap put an end to that. Was it the slap that ended comedy? Well, I just kind of, yeah. Wow, the slap killed comedy. Yeah, I guess so.

We've already made great progress here on this episode of 25 for 25. Was it the slap that ended comedy? Well, I just kind of, yeah. I think so. Wow, the slap killed comedy. Yeah, I guess so. We've already made great progress here on this episode of 25 for 25. So let's talk about it. This is, this was a tricky one to choose because there are a number of representative mega comedies from this era. There's The Hangover. There's other Feral McKay projects

like Talladega Nights or Step Brothers. There's This Is the End. There's Forgetting Sarah Marshall. There's, we could go on and on. Really the entire Abtel universe. 40 year old Virgin, Knocked Up, Girls Trip. And I think the most egregious and what was the alternative on the list for me, Superbad.

Right, so let's go there. Superbad was, I think, the leader in the clubhouse at the start. We made a couple of pivots over time. I think we made the right decision because of everything that this movie brings together. And it is the starting point both for Aptow Universe, Adam McKay Universe. It brings in the tail end of like the SNL stuff. Mean Girls is another movie, spoiler, that's not on our list, but is a... Was a contender. Yeah, and is a SNL figure transitioning in a different way to the big screen.

So you have everything in this one movie, but yeah, Superbad's not on our list. So I feel sad about that. I feel sad about it too. I love that movie very much. Superbad, obviously, I don't believe would be possible without this movie and without Judd Apatow, this is not the first thing Judd Apatow did by any stretch of the imagination.

But I think what it showed is his great strength colliding with another great filmmaker strength and then making something very special and unique. Apatow had been making television and movies in the 90s, you know? But this style of filmmaking that he pursues, which is very improv-based, which is very manic and absurdist, hitting with McKay, who had a ton of experience writing sketch and a ton of experience performing in sketch on stage, those two energies fit together beautifully. The other thing is that

Apatow was a concept guy and McKay is an idea guy. You know what I mean when I say that? Yes. So, you know, Apatow is really good at saying, like, what if this was the situation? And McKay is really good at dumping thematic stuff into those concepts. Yeah, premise versus theme.

Exactly. So this is both a funny setup and, like, in a world you want to be in. And crucially, like, a setup that can sustain the whole movie where a lot of SNL to movie pivots are just an SNL sketch that we just do for sometimes two and a half hours, which is inexplicable. But so the premise works and then McKay is there is like, no, this is about, you know, sexism and chauvinism in the 70s and can craft the comedy correctly and, and like, and make it be about something

while also being funny and also crucially edit it. So this is the other thing I had allotted like three hours to rewatch this and because in my mind, it was one of the late Apatow production like bloated forever and ever and the improv just goes on. It's 90 minutes, God bless you. It's a lean machine of comedy. Now that being said, we know that they made

a lot more movie. Totally. There are a lot of cut scenes and bloopers. There's an extended edition that I think is five minutes longer, the unrated edition. And then there is also a movie that is now available called Wake Up Ron Burgundy, which is an entire other movie that they cut together that I would say

has less narrative strand. Right, sure. But nevertheless, it's just rippling with jokes, has got a ton of material. And this is what these guys do. They write a lot, and then they improv a lot and then they collide it all together. This film is simultaneously feels like,

I don't wanna say the cheapest, but the sort of like the most fly by night, the least like hard studio movie out of this generation. It's got a silliness to it, but also has kind of a really strong core at the center of it because it has real relationships between real people that is kind of keeping you invested in the story while the joke machine flies at you.

So this is my favorite comedy of the century. It has, I think it's representative of something that is great, but also to sit inside of it and watch it. It's just fun. Yeah, do you want to speak on Will Ferrell and what he means to you? Sure, this is not the first movie that he co-wrote. to sit inside of it and watch it. It's just fun. Yeah. Do you want to speak on Will Ferrell and what he means to you? Sure. This is not the first movie that he co-wrote.

He co-wrote a movie in 1998 called A Night at the Roxbury, which was based. I can't do it. Like, which way? It's hard. Yeah. I think that's it. Based on a sketch about guys in a club.

Sure. He, Chris Catan, and the eventual, whoever the guest was that week, Jim Carrey famously participated in a funny Night at the Roxbury sketch where he kind of out-Roxbury-ed Will Ferrell and Chris Catan. That was an, that's an interesting example of what you just cited, which is that Will Ferrell, when he hit Saturday Night Live in the nineties was a supernova. He was an instantaneous

megastar. He felt like, to me, he was the heir apparent to Mike Myers and Eddie Murphy, where, and you could say John Belushi before him. Right. And to me, that's the era when I came in. So Will Ferrell is like my SNL star forever. Yes. And that's a great stretch of SNL. Obviously, we remembered fondly because we were adolescent.

But you know, the Tina Fey and Amy Poehler stretch, but then there's also Jimmy Fallon and then there's folks like Sherry O'Terry, Horatio Sands. Very, very good... The Spartans. Yes, and the cheerleaders, which is one of the things that vaulted Will Ferrell to mega fame, among many other characters that he created, many of whom were created with Adam McKay. So... for me...

he was an icon. He is my favorite SNL cast member, aside from Phil Hartman. Like, he is just... He was an immediate rock star, but that didn is just, he was an immediate rock star, but that didn't mean that he was an immediate movie star. And the jump has proved, has foiled many people. It has. And he, I think he did some interesting things. He had a very memorable cameo in a movie

that I think is a nice setup for this movie, which is Austin Powers, International Man of Mystery, where he plays, I think his name is Mustafa? He culturally appropriated and was wearing, what are those hats called? The red hat with the, you know what I'm talking about? Is that not his name in a Zoolander? What's his name in Zoolander?

Isn't that Mugatu? Yes, you're right. Thank you. Okay. Yeah. So, I mean, we're like edging on, you know, and it's again, 2000s, very different. A lot of appropriation going on.

It's possible that that character in Austin Powers is meant to be white, but he's informed by a certain kind of James Bond villain. Okay. Nevertheless, he's really, really funny in that movie and he gets a very small role or he's like, I'm badly hurt. When he's at the bottom of the whatever, where whatever trap door he's fallen down.

But Night of the Roxbury was like a reach. It didn't work. It was what you described. It was a stretched out sketch and he needed a vehicle that was more appropriate for his, how to describe his essence. I think he is the ultimate full of it man baby. You know, he is the overconfident, idiotic representation

of false masculinity. Right, or his performance. Let's not slander Will Ferrell. No, not as a man. I want to talk a little bit about him and McKay's dynamic, especially since they no longer work together. I know, which is sad. And what they gave to each other

and kind of what they mean to each other. But I find him to be funny in a primal way. I intend to intellectualize these things and verbalize these things as much as I can, but he has something that just makes me happy. Yes. I mean, it is presence. There's physicality. There's what he does with his voice. And the Steve Carell performance in this

is like also early Steve Carell and very funny, and he's like playing with volume, which I associate with Steve Karel now, but I realized watching this kind of like, oh, okay, so that is first and foremost, a Will Ferrell thing and like weird sounds and it's like pre-language in some ways, his level of humor.

But then it speaks to us. Yes, but it speaks to us on that level. I'm in a glass cage of humor. But then it speaks to us. Yes, but it speaks to us on that level. I'm in a glass cage of emotion! Obviously him shouting just makes people laugh. Get off the shed! Like all the SNL sketches are born of him seeming calm and then quickly losing his shit. Ron Burgundy especially, presentational character that he is. He's a 1970s newscaster.

I'll describe the setup of the movie for anybody who's not seen Anchorman, which is, I don't know who that is. Is anybody alive who hasn't seen Anchorman? Anybody at least under the age of 20, maybe hasn't seen it. Hotshot television Anchorman, Ron Burgundy welcomes upstart reporter,

Veronica Corningstone, into the male dominated world of 1970s broadcast news. That is until the talented female journalist begins to outshine Burgundy on air. Soon he grows jealous, begins a bitter feud with Veronica, and eventually makes a vulgar slip on live TV that ruins his career. However, when an outrageous story breaks at the San Diego Zoo, Ron may get a chance to redeem himself. So we can talk about the reasons why we added this movie to the list. One is obviously

the Apatow-McKay collision, which kicks off an era of comedy, right? The other is obviously Will Ferrell movie star. He goes on to make some of it. Is he the signature comedy star of the 21st century? I think is an interesting question to explore. Right. I mean, Vince Vaughn being in this is another one because so you get old school and wedding crash shows very soon after that. No one from Hangover is in this. So and those I feel are sort of like the tent pole.

Those are the big box office sensations. At least at the first 10 years, right? Yes. But to us, probably, because he, Will Ferrell's also in old school. What else do we have? I mean, Step Brothers. Mm-hmm. Step Brothers is the only other one besides Superbad that I seriously considered.

I mean, I also, when we were doing our like, you know, devil's advocate, I was like, are we sure it shouldn't be Step Brothers instead of Anchorman? And I think that you have to be a little boring when you're making those lists. Like Anchorman brings together all the themes and everything we're talking about. And Step Brothers is just like, it is like performance art.

It is like avant-garde almost, but is really, really,arde almost. It is. But it is really, really, really funny. I love it. We did a rewatch of that many, many years ago. I don't want to say there's less to talk about with Step Brothers, and that being the reason why we didn't choose it, but it does feel like you are watching a live exhibit of some kind. Right.

You know, like them kind of like going to the absolute ends of their quest for the lost masculinity of the American man in the 21st century, as opposed to a movie like this, which actually is maybe just like a little bit thematically richer. Plus, this movie also has Christina Applegate, which is the kind of performance that we definitely do not have in Step Brothers. There's not a lot of female depth explored. There were a couple of other movies that I considered. 21 Jump Street, which I think is very, very well liked. Really, really funny.

By me as well. Yeah. And we have no, like Jonah Hill is not represented here, neither Superbad nor 21 Jump Street. Once upon a time, he was a huge comedy star. It's okay. No spoilers, but Jonah will be back. He will be back. Tropic Thunder.

Yeah. This one, I- Not a back. He will be back. Tropic Thunder. Yeah, this one. Not a big one for you? No, I know it's importance. But as a fan of movie documentaries, Tom Cruise, inspired by Hearts of Darkness. Wasn't there at that time, like it's good, but it's not on the level of, uh, of really any of...

And it's not, like, culturally significant in the way that Anchorman, Superbad, Knocked Up, Hangover, like, those were really at the center of pop culture for a while. They felt to me, forgive this comparison, because it's going to annoy you, but they felt to me what it was like to go to Marvel movies in like the late 2010s. Yeah, no, I get it. Where it was like Friday night is a party.

Everyone knows when the movie's coming out and they're excited and it is loud in the theater with laughter. And they also, like we had like so many discussions and think pieces about, you know, like is knocked up sexist and like all these sorts of things. Like, we were... The fan culture was different, but the fan culture was applied to these movies. It was.

And now it's to Marvel. These were very bro-y and very white movies. There's no doubt about it. And they received a lot of criticism in the aftermath of their success. The same way that basically, like, every generation of comedy bro gets their criticism. This one's interesting to me, though, because... It's an open acknowledgement of their success, the same way that basically like every generation of comedy bro gets their criticism.

This one's interesting to me though, because it's an open acknowledgement of the quote unquote problem with these movies, with culture, with American life. Yeah. It's one of the best things about it. It's like a very nifty comedic, like not even trick it. I think it takes a lot of work. They are the men, the sexist buffoons, like they are the topic of the joke,

but they are also the butt of the joke. And so quickly in like, in any other hands, you would be asked to laugh at their sexist jokes, and that would be the thing that is supposed to be quote unquote funny. And somehow in this movie, they are like, they are being gross and it is a send up of 70s, and just general chauvinist culture.

But like the joke is always on them. And that's really hard to do. I agree, I think it would not work without Farrell at the center of it. Without somebody who basically is comfortable being the butt of the joke, who has his physique and is willing to have his shirt off all the time. You know what I mean? Who is willing to have an erection in a sequence and be the, you know, object

of embarrassment. I mean, I agree with you that it's like a very effective idea movie in that way. I think it's also like ensembles are hard to do in comedy and a lot of movies try to ape this. And this is a collection of people who, like, even if they didn't work together a lot after this, all were kind of destined to be in a movie together in some ways. Like, Paul Rudd had been in comedies before this,

but not quite like this. No, not like Sex Panther. Not in this register specifically. Sex Panther is the part of the movie when Zach, who was eager to watch this one with me, was just like speechless convulsed, you know? Just like literally like couldn't breathe.

60% of the time it works every time. Uh, I think the other thing too is that it's in a really great tradition of movies like Airplane, like Mel Brooks movies, like the Marx Brothers, like Jerry Lewis, where it's just like joke, joke, joke, joke, joke. You don't get to go more than 90 seconds, even if something incredibly dramatic has just happened without getting hit with a joke, which I actually don't know how that has aged, for lack of a better word. I don't know if that brand of comedy,

obviously, we like our consumption patterns, the way we use our phones and the way we like look at TikTok, for example, works in the same way, but not in sustained spaces. Like, we've been lamenting the loss of the studio comedy for 10 years now. And the like people laughing over a joke in a movie theater thing, you must remember this as like an issue, especially for a movie like this

that is so loaded. Yes. But I mean, it just is kind of like rolling. And in the movie theater, it's so loud that, you know, it just keeps going and it builds also. What's interesting to me about it is you mentioned that there are like actual relationships between people and ideas in this, but the comedy like never stops to have a moment of like, you know, what is Veronica

like gonna, you know, what's she gonna do and how does it, it must be really hard to, that's all in the movie, but she's also making fun of herself or the movie is... She's playing the comedy of it. Yeah, exactly. And the movie is playing the comedy of it. And it does somehow manage to, you know, it's like, it's funny that they're so hot for each other. And that is like part of the joke.

So you don't have to go into some like actual emotional development that's believable. I don't really know whether movie audiences allow for that anymore in the same way. It's a good question. I don't really know whether movie audiences allow for that anymore. I want it's a good question. I wonder because I wish they would I think you and I would but like, you know, all our like Marxist materialist girls, like I don't know. Well, if you know what I'm saying, I do I we can't make

movies based on that though. Like I feel like oddly this movie has more respect for its audience because it doesn't agree to have this like false dramatic sense. When I agree. Yeah, you know, I do think people expect a speech more respect for its audience because it doesn't pretend to have this like false dramatic sense of urgency. I agree. But you know, I do think people expect a speech where like the moral like and like is read allowed allowed to them. Yeah, it's just not necessary because for example, let's take a scene, the scene when

Veronica arrives into San Diego, and she doesn't know the town well. She's just come in from a different place where she had been working as a newscaster. And Ron wants to take her out on a date, but he's using it as a sort of like, let me show you around the town. And he takes her to the Overlook, where you would presumably make out with someone. And he delivers this famous San Diego,

you know, founded by the Germans in 19, you know. You don't, once you have that scene, where she's smarter than him. Just a dime. You know, whale's vagina, all that stuff, it kind of eradicates the necessity of any overwritten speech about what this movie is really about.

It's like, this guy's a fucking buffoon. He's kind of at the absolute core kind of sweet. You know, like he does actually. Well, he loves his dog. He, yeah. Yes, he does. He does. He loves his dog.

And as you know, I have a complicated relationship with the deployment of animals and pets in movies, but this is perfectly done. Yeah. And also funny. Well, the real dramatic hinge of the movie is not Veronica versus Ron. It's Ron throwing a burrito at Jack Black on a motorcycle, Jack Black

skidding out, and then going over to Ron. First of all, Jack Black's character asking Ron, what do you love? And Ron's immediate response is, I love poetry. It always gets me. Um, but then him grabbing Baxter, his little dog, and punting him off of the side of a bridge. And then that sending Ron into a tailspin, which then disallows him from reading the news that day. That being the narrative crux of the movie is fucking hilarious. And then also setting up the final resolution of the movie, which is Baxter, bless him, still alive,

and can speak bear and comes to save them. It's an amazing movie. Even the bear and dog dialogue is so funny. It is truly ridiculous. I will tell tales of your compassion or whatever. We all live in the animal kingdom. It's truly ridiculous. I will tell tales if you're like compassion or whatever. We all live in the animal kingdom. It's really funny.

If you want to throw down fisticuffs, fine. I've got Jack Johnson and Tom O'Leary waiting for you right here. It's rare that a movie from this century for me can conjure the desire to just say movie dialogue. The men saying movie dialogue together, and I'm not gender essentializing, I'm merely speaking of my experiences, is just that is a love language, a friendship. That is a way to communicate with your boys. And I don't have it as much anymore. Now, there are like a million reasons for it. We don't have as many comedies. I live in a house with two women and not my boys anymore. I am in my forties and that would seem a little bit ridiculous. Although I found myself in Atlanta with my brother

and we shared a room in a hotel. That's very cute. And we just said big Lebowski dialogue to each other the whole time. That's really nice. So, you know, it's still, it's very deep, but it's still there. I always like try to do that,

but there's no one else who has my references, you know? It's like- So where do you go? You know, like no one, you know, everywhere in LA is 20 minutes. What's that from? I've tried to do that, but there's no one else who has my references, you know? It's like- So where do you go? You know, like no one, you know, everywhere in LA is 20 minutes. What's that from? I know where that's from.

Yeah, see, there we go. It's done. Yeah, what is it? Clueless, come on. But I have like a lot of, I have things that are either, it's basically you've got mailer clueless that I repeat as if everybody would know it. You need more clueless gal pals.

Well, I know- Clueless is a very popular form. I do, I do know that, but it's not wired in us to be speaking the same way. You might just be stuck working at the Ringer. Yes, I know. It's kind of an issue. Yeah, it's probably. This episode is brought to you by Dzone.

For the first time ever, the 32 best soccer clubs from across the world are coming together to decide who the undisputed champions of the world are in the FIFA Club World Cup. The world's best players, Messi, Holland, Kane, and more are all taking part. And you can watch every match for free on Dazone starting on June 14th and running until July 13th. Sign up now at Dazone.com slash FIFA. That's D-A-Z-N dot com slash FIFA. Talk to me about Christine Applegate before, because I feel like she's come up in the past and you've been like, eh, a little bit,

like she's not my favorite, but I feel like this is... That's unfair. Okay, tell me. I don't know, I guess this is probably my number one connection because I married with children, was not in, we just didn't watch it, very not. She's fantastic in this. Amazing.

She's really, really funny and like Veronica Veronica has a very hard job of hanging with 45 men. She is like in this script and the movie has a lot more love for her and wants to help her. But it's like you have to play the sexist interloper. You know, like you got to get it just right. And she does. She's hilarious. She is lit so beautifully. the sexist interloper, you know, like you got to get it just right. And she does. She's hilarious. She is lit so beautifully. I just want to say that whoever did that and you did a really good job. She looks gorgeous.

And like even when they, that first scene when they're cutting at the party, when they're cutting between her and Farrell, I'm like, okay, so we have different setups here. Yes. He doesn't get the same lighting treatment. Yeah, which is I think purposeful and adds to the text, but she looks great. I think it must be really... I mean, comedy is hard. I think comedy is hard.

Also, these people also, all the men have worked together or have some sort of training together and she's coming in. So hats off to her. It's really good. There's not a lot of female comedy actresses that have her bona fides, her experience. Yeah. You know, she obviously, I think she's a bit underrated in that she comes from a tradition of like,

Carol Lombard, Marilyn Monroe, you know, the like, the stunning blonde who can hang with the boys, so to speak, who's just as funny. Who's just as funny as all of them. And I think this movie for a certain generation of guys, maybe just a little bit younger than me, it's like the first time that they ever saw her,

but it wasn't just Married with Children. It was like, don't tell mom the babysitter's dead. It was Sweetest Thing. It was like, there were a bunch of movies that were happening in the 90s and the 2000s where she was the lead of the movie. She was the lead of movies when she was like 20 years old.

So she's an old hand, so to speak. And she's also like won an Emmy, Golden Globes, Tonys. She's extremely accomplished. She's not as much in the culture because she was diagnosed with MS and so she doesn't perform nearly as much as she used to. But I think her character is pretty well written because it also doesn't, she doesn't take herself too seriously. Like very early on in the film, she gets to do voiceover,

which shifts the perspective pretty dramatically in the movie. And then she says, this is definitely a man's world. But while they're laughing and grab assing, I'm chasing down leads and practicing my non-regional diction. You know, there's like a recognition of the fact that she also is like kind of an insecure hustler, just like all these other guys. So as much as the movie is about the fragility of the male psyche, even in the 1970s

when men ran everything, it's also about her own vulnerability, fragility. I even think that the scene, like the end of their night out when she is like desperately attracted to him is like, but I never mix professional and something. She is playing that as a parody of that type of woman who's been in that situation before. And she's also like weak and can't help it.

So it's very funny. The rest of the cast is a pretty amazing collection of people who are great with, like, three shots a night. Yeah. You know, Fred Willard in a kind of a glory third generation. He's already smoking in the Christopher Guest movies by this point after all of his years in comedy. It's one of the first times I can remember seeing Catherine Hahn. Oh, interesting. This is 2004. So you wouldn't have seen How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days before

this. I probably did. Okay. Well, she is a very vital and memorable. Is she best friend? She's the desk. She's the one who keeps doing everything wrong. And so, and she's like calling and crying and being like, I showed up at his door after one coffee.

Are you surprised at all that Catherine Hahn has emerged as an icon? No, I get it. I love her. She's- Her funniest performance to me is in Step Brothers. That's where she's at her best. But I like that she gets to do other things now.

And I'm very drawn to her. I mean, never forget her performance on the Bill Simmons podcast where she read her husband's letter. That was- Elite stuff. That's a comedy icon. She's an excellent podcast guest as well.

She's also in the meme, is it she staring at Rachel Weisz very lovingly during one of the round tables? Yes. Yeah. I mean, it's just... You relate to that. I really relate to that. But listen, she has range. Yeah, she does.

She has longevity. I have been with Catherine Hahn since the beginning. You mentioned Correll. The Office was on at this time. Was it not? I'm trying to think, what year did the American Office launch? American sitcom. 2005. So no, this was before. Before? Yeah, so this would have been Daily Show, and he was familiar. Interesting.

But not before. This is before Office and before 40-year-old Virgin. Well, thank you for saying the Daily Show, because that's also an important part of this, is the fake news as an idea, and that's something that obviously SNL had been doing for years with Weekend Update, but that being a part of the culture and also at a time even though this movie I Would not say is overtly politically about America in 2004, right? this era of Everyone in charge is a fucking moron. Yes, which then would go on to become kind of Definitional to what Adam McKay's movies were.

It being steeped in that without being about that, I think also hugely helps the movie. Absolutely. So let's talk about McKay a little bit. It's been on the show a couple of times. I really like Adam's movies. I think he has taken a turn in the culture where he takes more blows than he used to.

Yeah, well, you know, you're just, if you're tweeting about the politics of Wicked, once again, everybody that we've just talked about, Apatow, Adam McKay, just, you hit Twitter, you post too much, and then things fall apart. That's a big part of it. That's a big part of it. I think if you don't,

and obviously I think both of those guys would say, it's my duty to speak out about what I think is wrong in the world. But I think most people in the world perceive their duty to be to entertain them. And there's a tension there. I think Adam as a filmmaker, the more he's gotten interested in his ideas

and less interested in the comedy, people have been a little bit confused as to kind of like what he wants, what he's going for. Does he want to be strictly an ideologue? Does he want to be somebody who thinks entertainment first? You know, him and Farrell were very, very special together. And you know, there's some suggestion that the Winning Time series was where things got a little bit fractured between them. They obviously had a company together for many years. Gary Sanchez Productions, which produced a ton of really funny movies.

They're still like the Gloria Sanchez arm of the company. They're still producing stuff, but not necessarily in tandem the way that they used to. But- Remember the Landlord? Yeah, I mean, not the digital comedy, you know, the online viral comedy thing. They-

Give me my money! They helped launch that. Was that Adam's daughter? I think so, yes. Yeah. They- I want my money! It's really funny.

There is a long tradition of the kind of like festering angry comedy writer at SNL going all the way back to Michael O'Donoghue powering the dopey tall guy, you know, the Chevy chases of the world and making them an avatar for the idiocy of the world at large. One of the key roles that Farrell played when he was on the show was George W. Bush. George W. Bush is a target of Anchorman.

He is the kind of person that this movie is about. And modeled and, you know, maybe not the look specifically, but certainly the affect, the staring into the camera and we'll say whatever's on the prompter, we won't even think about it. Yeah, and the overconfidence in the communication of information that is probably false. You know, this... I believe diversity. I was just looking for that one.

That's my feeling. I could be wrong, but I believe diversity is an old, old wooden ship that was used during the Civil War era. Why would wooden ships be used during the Civil War? And it's not unexamined. I think all of that stuff, the fact that McKay is able to make that stuff, to make us think about it without having to say it,

is one of the great powers of the movie and one of the reasons why I like it so much. I'm very curious where his career goes. I'm very curious what kind of movies he makes. Don't Look Up, as much kind of slings and arrows as it took, is one of the most successful movies in the history of Netflix. So it's not as though like,

he has become an obscure filmmaker, because he's not at all. And he's had success in TV too. He was gonna make that movie with Robert Downey Jr. and Robert Pattinson, I think about an assassination. Do you remember this? The thing got canceled. Oh, it got canceled?

Yeah, they killed it. I think it was gonna be a Netflix movie and they killed it. That's sad. Yeah, so I actually don't know what he's doing next. But the arc of his career is really interesting because it was just, it pressed the limits of absurdity. And then I find that the other guys is the turning point because the other guys is basically

about the financial crisis and the absurdity Of the banking system in this country and the way that wealth and capital operates and the first time you saw it you were like I think this is actually about something different than Mark Wahlberg and Will Ferrell being, you know Silly partners together right and then the second time you're watching you're like, oh man It's like a manifesto of some kind and then every other movie since has been kind of a manifesto, right? you're like, oh man, this is like a manifesto of some kind. And then every other movie since has been kind of a manifesto. Right.

This is probably, this is still my favorite of his films. I think, yeah, I think this is number one. Stepbrothers up there. I really like the big short. Big short gets the combination of manifesto and ensemble and funny moments and just like trying stuff. Mm-hmm. Right? And then it is kind of structurally audacious. Right. and ensemble and funny moments and just like trying stuff. Right? And then...

It is kind of structurally audacious. Right, Margot Robbie and the Bathtub, like the first time is amusing. Well, you can feel that stuff in this movie. You know, the big fight sequence in this movie where all the news teams go to war with each other is the kind of like record scratch, we're going to a different kind of movie feeling,

which I love that stuff. I love the ability to like break form the way that he does over and over again. So that's a really cool thing that he does. Will Ferrell. Yeah. Now, you know, Elf came before this and old school came before this.

Old school was before this? Oh, I didn't realize that. So he's already done by the time this movie comes around. You know, Not Just Austin Powers and... Old school is 2003? Wow. Yeah. I guess that makes sense because I watched it about 8,000 times in college.

I saw it not too long ago and still laughed really hard. I think that... Maybe Bed, Back, Me, On, Nice Little Saturday. Like, I think about that every single Saturday. To me, Vince Vaughn is the best part of that movie, though. Yeah. And he is the one who is the like, yes, he is truly trapped emotionally. Yeah. You know, he's the one who doesn't really is having a harder time coming grips. Will Ferrell is like he just got married and is confused. Right. Vince Vaughn has a family. And he's Frank the Ta- He's just like running naked, you know?

Yes, he's the Belushi fresher. But you know, Elf was a massive hit. Mm-hmm. And- Elf, not on our list. Sorry to anyone who's- There is a- I didn't even consider it.

It does look like something about Farrell's comedy. I mean, it is- Overgrown child. Overgrown, fantastical child. Mm-hmm. Who doesn't understand how this world works. But there is also still something... sweet about his...

The difference between Ferrell and Chevy Chase is that Chevy Chase is an asshole, and which can be very funny. And Will Ferrell has something ultimately harmless if ridiculous about him. Yeah, I mean, I'm looking at his movies since the other guys, which was in 2010. And there's some really funny stuff,

but there's nothing that really got close to that. No. And a lot of successful movies, Daddy's Home and the Lego movie he's a big part of. And there was of course Anchorman 2. Sure. Which I didn't revisit for this conversation, though I think I remember liking more than the consensus, which was that it was kind of like a bloated been there done that. Right. But to me was also a very pointed political text about the rise of cable news and the way that cable news like infest people's minds that, you know, that movie was made in 2013 and like look

at us now. We are trapped inside the pain cave of disinformation. But I think you can make the case that not only is 2004 the pinnacle of his comedy powers, but it's also the pinnacle of him and McKay working together and that they just, they, they, we talked about this with Alex Garland and Danny Boyle. Right. That some creative people find each other and they just make each other better.

Yeah. And I've always- It's Lenin and McCartney. Very much. And I really feel that with McKay and Farah. And I really, I really hope that they will one day get back together and make another movie. Me too.

I think that they're very special together. And honestly, what could be, I don't know if they need to go back to Ron Burgundy per se, but what could be better than like men in their 50s, kind of looking at what men in their 50s have done to the world, but in not such an obvious way. Also, would that put Ron Burgundy in Reagan's 80s? I think that's what two is about.

Two is about CNN. Two is still in the 80s? Oh, well that's 80s? I think that's what 2 is about. 2 is still in the 80s? Oh, well that's 90s. Nah, it's like late 80s. It's like late 80s. What else? Where else should we go from here? I mean this movie was not a huge box office success. It did okay. And then it was an all time DVD classic.

Everybody I knew on this movie. Exactly, yeah, and watched it 1,000 hundred times in college. You know, Ebert only gave it three stars. Okay. A.O. Scott basically gave it three stars. Well, you know, they don't give out stars. It wasn't hailed. I don't, the comedies are seldom understood in their, in their time.

So, you know, I've talked about this a lot on the rewatchables. Let's talk about this because. Was Picasso celebrated in his time Yes, he absolutely That's true, yeah and lots of wives then who am I thinking of whatever Vincent van Gogh, okay Yeah, that's right. That's what I'm sure. Yeah Made himself a legend died, you know never to be heard from again Except we all want to pay 38 million dollars for his

never to be heard from again, except we all want to pay $38 million for his little drawings. Did you read that James Frey or James Frey piece, you know, where he just like owns Picasso's, whatever, different conversation. I absolutely did not read that piece, but we can talk about it offline. I'm just kind of like, where plagiarism leads to whatever. Yeah, I mean, being infamous has its power. Okay. I don't know how to get back on track. Well, I mean, you know the confident men who

Put themselves out there. Well done and then and and and reap the benefits, I guess Yeah, I think the the thing I was trying to think about was Critics are usually roughly our age No, I sort of like leading critics at the time are usually in their 40s and 50s when they have reached the place where they become the authority that you go to. Right.

This is not a movie that if I saw it today, I would understand or build the same relationship to as I did when I was 22. Right. Because I've lost a kind of adolescent joy that still existed. And I've often used this to explain the appeal to people my age of Adam Sandler, which

is when you were 14 or 18 when Happy Gilmore or Billy Madison came out or Tommy Boy for Chris Farley, like that generation that is right before Will Ferrell. If you were a 48 year old man working at a local newspaper in Iowa and you watched Chris Farley, I could understand saying like, I get it, but this isn't really a very good movie.

Right, I'm not laughing out loud. Yes, or even if it made me laugh it like it isn't a great film Anchorman to me is unusual in that It is actually a great film. Mm-hmm, even if it is not athletic or Right. Well, there are different, you know, there There are a lot of different ways to make a great film and we can reward a lot of different things and and and we are Trying to reward a lot of different things. And we are trying to reward a lot of different things on this list, which is, one thing I wanted to ask you

and just kind of put out there is like, why can we only have one comedy on the list? Well, we could have done whatever we wanted. Right, but we chose to, and this is the one. We have something we gotta give, that's a comedy. Sure, but it's like a different, it's a different type of filmmaking that is more, I guess, script and character

and production design. Those two movies though, I think this is notable. Yeah. And not true of all the movies you could have put on, are both about the complicated attempt of men and women to communicate with each other. Sure. Which is a theme of this show.

Right, yes, but so there are things that we respond to, but there are a lot of different ways to put the pieces together, right? So, and a lot of different ways to make something great. So this is, I think, obviously, like the performances and the improv contribute to a lot of it, but a very fine line to walk in terms of script and ideas. And like, it could go very wrong and could be very gross,

but instead instead it is absolutely seared into all of our brains because it's the funniest thing alive. Yeah and has a tinge of sweetness. Yeah. You know it's not an acid burn movie whereas I feel like a lot of the movies, you know, The Hangover is like kind of a mean spirited movie. It's very, it's to me still very funny. There are jokes now that don't feel sensitive to 2025 or what have you, but it still has that kind of like electric energy that when Todd Phillips is at his best, I think he brings to the table. But it's nasty. It's made by somebody who's like, fuck everybody. Everybody's an asshole. And including the stars

of my movie. These guys are assholes. Anchorman knows these guys are really, really fucked up, but they're not, like David Keckner, for example, in this movie, as Champ kind, the sportscaster. I think he's really, really funny. He has one scene in particular where they're talking about the pancake breakfast that they have every month, and he and Ron and Ryan Fantana and Paul Rudd's character are talking. And Champ realizes that Ron is starting to drift away from him a little bit.

And he's away from the boys because he's falling in love with Veronica. And he just starts saying how he feels, which is that he wants to be close to him. And he wants to get an apartment with him because he just, he loves it. He loves his friend and maybe he loves him even more than that. Maybe he's got something going on underneath that he hasn't totally reckoned with because of this huge performance of masculinity. And it's like kind of sad and weird, but kind of sweet. You know, there's something underneath champ kind. Yeah. It's not, it's not ugly. It's not ugly. Yes. He's not beating the shit out of Ron because of his own self-hatred about how he feels

about Ron, which is a theme you can find in many films in the early 2000s. That was also kind of a rise in much more sensitive LGBTQ filmmaking was hitting Hollywood. This movie is also kind of exploring that. There is like a how the boys are quality to this movie that is very, very funny. So I'm happy it's here. I don't really have an excuse for why it's the only comedy. There are funny aspects of other movies

we're doing in the future. I think that the comedy is essential to most of the other movies. Yeah, even in the top five, I can think of at least three movies that are very, very funny. So it's more just, this is like the formal comedy

and the studio comedy. And we had other things that we wanted to honor. But when you think of all the movies that aren't on the list, it does feel a little stupid. It's not stupid, but it's just kind of, it's a tough list of movies that didn't make the cut. Can they come back cut can they come back

Can they come back on the list? Oh, so you're comedies. I don't know because you made a good point about how It's It's the 22 year olds who kind of who the young people who have a kind of fanta essential response to it that makes it. And the young, young people do go to movies sort of, but I don't think they expect it in this format anymore.

They have other formats for comedy. We are just like a month away from the naked gun. Sure. Which I think obviously is very different because it is based on, it's a reboot of an older comedy IP, but it's going for the same energy that we're describing, which is it's a studio, theatrically released movie

with stars that has Jokum in it. And obviously I thought the trailer was really funny, we saw it together, but it seems like people are kind of into it. Sure, no, I think that's true, but like I sat between you and Matt Bellany and had a great time and you were both chuckling, but like you guys ain't 22. You know what I'm saying?

That's a great point. That's a great point. I have all my 22 year olds. Jack Sanders, you gonna go see The Naked Gun? I will. I wouldn't say I'm like dying to see it, but I will see it. Jesus Christ, Jack.

Help me out here, buddy. Recommend it if you like. Yeah. Everybody's seen this movie. This is not Melancholia, you know what I mean? This is not one where you're like, oh, I've been meaning to check that out. Dumb and Dumber, Austin Powers are obvious, right?

Caddyshack, Airplane, those are obvious. History of the World, part one. I don't know what that is. That's a Mel Brooks movie. I think a lot of those Mel Brooks movies, Blazing Saddles, Young Frankenstein, on and on and on. Super bad. Certainly. But then I think also Network. It's a good call. If you like Network, which I think is hilarious. We've just seen a film that reminded me a lot of Network just last night. Yeah, absolutely. This kind of like, the chaos. So, Network is hilarious, but it's not ha-ha funny.

It's a different. Only, you know me in a movie theater though, and I'm like, I'm happy to be the only person laughing at a scene. Like, it is that same energy. Anchorman is like, we're all laughing together. Right, right, right, right, right. No, I think network is,

like I'm laughing because I'm horrified sort of. Yes. And, but that's fine. As Ron Burgundy would say, I'm not even mad. That's amazing. I do think that, you know, obviously they both take place in newsrooms in the 70s. Exactly my point.

Yeah, there you go. So sure. And about the incursion of corporate influence on our lives, you know, there you go. So sure. About the incursion of corporate influence on our lives, you know? And women in the newsroom. Christina Applegate's styling is not unlike Faye Dunaway's. That's right, Diana Christensen.

Yeah. They're very similar. In fact, I would be stunned if that was not a reference. I think it is definitely. Especially that first white pantsuit is absolutely a Faye. 100%. Reference, the hair. Good, you know, you got a reference.

That's a good one. I just can't get so many words from this movie out of my head. Words that we'd never heard together. Like, Panda Watch! Like, I just, no one had ever said those words together. They say them all the time now on the Ringer Fantasy football show, it's an ongoing bit. They have Great Odin's Raven, you know?

There's just a lot of Will stuff. Will just saying things out loud. I'd love to know. I'd like to see the original shooting script. And how much of that is kind of pre pre engineered versus off the top of his head? Yes. You had to figure that there were like a lot of alts for great Odin's Raven, you know, 100% they probably should have many of those. And I'm sure they're very funny.

The opening sequence of the film, where we watch Ron Burgundy warming up and doing his vocal exercises. It just almost feels like, I've never really quite seen it before, it almost feels like the blooper reel before the movie starts where he's kind of working on it. He's like, many of those gags that feel very written, but it also feels like there's a really, really smart person behind the camera just saying phrases out loud fast. But to me, it almost feels like it, you know, they get him in hair and makeup and they put him behind the desk

and they're just like, start talking. Or it's like free association. Yeah, or they're just like, start talking. Or it's like free association. Yeah, or they're just like, you know, they throw out a word and then he starts going. Why do you not do vocal exercises before our recordings? Have you considered that? What would you do? What syllables do you struggle with? Ours.

As you know, yeah. Okay, I don't know. Well, trolls, world, tour, is just very, but that's like rural juror, you know? Which is a 30 rock. Okay, I don't know. Well, Trolls World Tour is just very, but that's like rural juror, you know? Which is a 30 rock, yeah. How do we get you doing, rolling your Rs? I'm very American, it's really tough.

Okay. You know, and I've like worked on it for many years. You can't do foreign dialects. I mean, I can, but it's always like, you don't wanna be the person being like, what song, you know? Why not? What would be wrong with that?

Really obnoxious. Yeah. So I don't have just like the person to be like, oh, I saw, you know? Why not? What would be wrong with that? Really obnoxious. Yeah. So I don't have just like the natural in between our. I got to think, I don't really struggle with too much. Diction is not an issue for me. Okay. That's my one thing. As I told you, I once trained a classroom of sixth graders

on how to be a game show host. This is something, part of the reason why I like this movie is because the puffery of Ron is, you know, I, that's the small part of my character. The puffery of whatever this is that we're doing here together. Some quick data points here. Ron Burgundy was ranked the 16th best movie character of all time in the 2020 poll by Empire.

Okay. Seems pretty high actually in the history of movies. Some recency bias there perhaps. Rolling Stone Rainted is the 13th best 21st century comedy. That's shocking. All right. Shocking. Is that high or low?

Shocking. Way too low. 13? Yeah. I mean, I agree. IndieWire said it was the seventh best. Yeah. And as I said, I said it was number one on the September 30th.

I think I read that IndieWire list and like Along Came Polly was in the top 10, which I understand, cause that's Philip Seymour Hoffman. He's amazing in it, but the movie's just so hard. Yeah, I would agree. So, you know. Okay. You got a no context.

Our list is the only list for us. You are having some doubts about the next movie on our list. Yeah, I noticed that you didn't respond to my text message. Well, I thought I would be seeing you very shortly. And here I am with you. I have no doubts. I know, I understand the other movie

that you're trying to get on. Is there another place to get it on? You just might have to have a blood sacrifice if you want to get it on. That's the thing you got to think about. I am having a blood sacrifice. And it's, I want to sacrifice the next movie. No, that's not a blood sacrifice for you.

The next movie has been a point of discussion, contention, doubt, recrimination, complication, both for this project and on this podcast. It's a great, it's great programming for an episode, right? Cause we'll have a very wide ranging conversation. It could be like an hour and a half. But, oh my God, yeah. But not just about the movie because of all the components.

No, no, no, I think you're right. Well, but also about all of the other movies that, why it's that particular movie and not 15 other movies and why it was so difficult for us to make this decision. I looked at the list and I still think that this is, I think the next one's the weakest spot. Okay. But you know, it's a, it's a group project, I guess.

Um, I think there are some other folks out in the world who might say that some of the other films are weaker. Films to come could even be. They are once again invited to make their own lists and their own podcasts. Well, they're doing that at the New York Times. I know. It's a great project. Yeah. I just want to say thank you to Sofia Coppola for putting Michael Hanneke's The White Ribbon

on her personal top 10. My dad is thrilled. I'm thrilled as always a woman of taste. I think we should go out this way. Well, all of us here at The Big Picture, I'm Sean Fennessy. You stay classy, San Diego. Thanks for stopping by. But mainly stay classy. Thanks for stopping by. Stay classy. I'm Sean Fenness Diego. Thanks for stopping by. But mainly, stay classy.

Thanks for stopping by. Stay classy. I'm Sean Fantasy. Thanks for stopping by. Stay classy, Sean Fantasy.