The Big Picture - The 25 Best Movies of the Century: No. 22 - ‘Children of Men’

Episode Date: April 21, 2025

Sean and Amanda return to continue their yearlong project of listing the 25 best movies of the 21st century so far. Today, they discuss Alfonso Cuarón’s ‘Children of Men,’ a deeply upsetting 2006 apocalyptic thriller starring Clive Owen and Julianne Moore, which features some of the most emotionally moving image-making of all time. They explore how this film altered the trajectory of Cuarón’s “shapeshifter” filmmaking career, celebrate Owen’s amazing physical performance, and revisit the Academy’s baffling decision not to honor the film with a single Academy Award. Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Producer: Jack Sanders Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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travel agent. Air Canada. Nice travels. I'm Sean Fennessy. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is 25 for 25 a big picture special conversation show about our post-apocalyptic existence. Our pick today is a remarkable film, Alfonso Cuaron's Children of Men. Real roller coaster on this one. So a week and a half ago,

I reached out to you and I said, children of men, I don't know. Should we make a swap? I'm not sure if I wanna do this. And I thought it was maybe because my enthusiasm for the film had dimmed, but I'm wondering now if it's because I knew what lay before me if I were to revisit the movie,

which is a very emotionally wrenching, virtuosically made movie about a possible near future, 2027? 2027, but with a lot of hallmarks of the way we live now. It certainly does. This is one of the most prescient films made in recent times and one of the best. So you didn't, you never lost the faith in this though.

No, but I, the way that I'm working through this project, which I love, I'm having such a great time. Great, me too, not really, but okay. Is that once a week, I hear from you in crisis mode and you have a crisis of faith. Sometimes you're on a plane. Sometimes you're just in plane mode at home because as we've discussed,

that's a spiritual plane that you can reach. It's not location-based. Yeah, and you're like, I don't know how I feel about our choice. And I, Sean, just use that as an opportunity to talk to you about cinema, which is great. And that's why we do this podcast. And frankly, this year, there hasn't been a lot of real cinema released.

Yes. So you go back and forth, you share your feelings, you go up, you go down. With Children of Men, at first you were like, I think that this is like a five-star masterpiece that maybe I don't want to rewatch. That is what I said. And I said, okay, well, do you want to do Itumama Tambien? Do you want to put it on hold?

I threw out some other selections of things that did not make it onto the list. And we bumped up Something's Gotta Give and took a little more time. And in that time, you and I both rewatched the film, which we actually hadn't done before making the long list. And then we were like, oh shit, this is way too low. This might actually, like this might be top 10,

do we wanna redo the list so that we can get it? This is, I was flat out blown away by this. And I knew that there, I remembered being blown away by it when I saw it. And probably, like I've probably seen it a couple of times and I remember it being perfect, but I too was not expecting both the emotional and just the holy shit movies response that I had to it.

Yeah, I think the list is now getting into a, um, it's gonna be hard to debate territory, you know, where almost everything that we pick is going to have a kind of ecstatic quality in the filmmaking or the storytelling or the acting. This movie is... clearly, I think inarguably worthy of this list. And I didn't wanna rewatch it in part because I remember the first time

that I saw it in theaters and the absolute pit in my stomach that it left. I've revisited it a couple of times. I think I rewatched it a couple of years ago. We talked about disaster movies. And I think I had framed it as a disaster movie. And some people quibbled with that take. But the idea of a worldwide infertility pandemic

is a disaster. Yeah, did you do it for disaster or apocalypse? It could have been apocalypse. I don't recall. I sort of remember it, because the apocalypse episode was a very special episode of, I think that was like- I have no recollection.

April 2020. Oh, okay, cool. Yeah, and it was, and that was where we were emotionally and we were like really sharing a lot. Was that like clever programming in the face of a pandemic? Yeah, it was. I'm very sorry about that. Maybe it was May, 2020, maybe it was June.

Okay. And it might've been tied to a movie as well. It wasn't like Bill making you guys do a Contagion rewatchables on March 3rd, 2020. That wasn't ideal. No, it wasn't. But it was weirdly fair and reasonable. And you made a note in our document about contagion here,

because these two films share the same thing. Now, Children of Men is played to a kind of extreme in the story, because you can see the sort of nation states and governments and the general rules of our society completely folding in on themselves, and a world falling apart in this film. It is the absolute end game of destruction for, if something like this were to transpire.

So just the details of the film, so we're clear, as I said, it's directed by Cuaron. I'd like to talk about him for quite a while because he might be the world's greatest living filmmaker who has not made a movie in seven years. And so he has not been a constant source of discussion on the show. Since Roma, which is really when you and I started cooking on the show, we haven't had a lot of opportunities to discuss him,

but he also has a writing credit on this film. There are a number of credited writers on this movie, including Timothy J. Sexton, David Arada, Mark Fergus, and Hawk Osby, and it's based on The Children of Men by P.D. James. P.D. James, a renowned English novelist, who, she died about 10 years ago. And I think this is really the only major film of note

that is adapted from her work. She's best known for detective stories. Right. Your overlooking death comes to Pemberley, but that's fine. That's on your... I mean, was that released in America? Like, I know it exists, but like... It was, but I think it might have been one of those

like British TV specials. Right, right, right. That's fine. Matthew Rees, it's a murder mystery set at the fictional home from Pride and Prejudice, for those of you not on the level. I see. Okay, so clearly this is important to you. Pemberley is where Mr. Darcy lives. And Matthew Reese plays Mr. Darcy, I believe, in The Death Comes to Pemberley.

Yeah, it was at P.D. I've read both the book and seen the film. That's very funny. I was going to say P.D. James's, her work is very Amanda. Yes. And this novel is not very P.D. James. No. I think it's interesting, of course, a woman writing a kind of sci-fi,

dystopian, nightmare military movie or military novel that, you know, features fertility as a key subject seems notable. The movie stars Clive Owen, Claire Hope Aschete, Julianne Moore, Chouatel Ejefor, Pam Ferris, Charlie Hunnam, and Michael Kane. It is notably as all of Cuaron's movies are shot by Emmanuel Chivo-Lubeschi, who is also, along with Cuaron, widely considered one of the greatest filmmakers, arguably the greatest cinematographer in the world, give or take a Roger Deakins. And this movie, which charts what basically what happens to this small pocket of rebels in the face of this infertility epidemic, which has been going on for well

over 15 years. It's, I guess, 18 years is the extent. Yeah. And three months and something days. Yes. And so the film isn't just a portrait of kind of the world falling apart. It's a portrait particularly of two modes of rebellion and how to save humanity. And the way to do that is to find somebody who can give birth.

And of course they do find someone in this story who can give birth. Clive Owen is our perspective character. He is a man who was once a rebel or was once a progressive who has kind of slipped out of the cause and is a bit lost until he is drawn back into it by his former wife, lover, who's portrayed by Julianne Moore, and then he becomes kind of an agent of change throughout this story. So you mentioned that you saw it a long time ago, you loved it, you watched it again. It could be a top 10 movie, notes the arbitrary nature of our list.

What else did you feel while you were watching the movie? I thought of your sentence of this might be at like a five star masterpiece and, or, you know, conventional movie nerd wisdom that this is like a quote unquote perfect film. Yeah. It is a perfect screenplay. It is a perfect technical execution. There is a stunning amount of like capital C, like camera work, athletic, filmmaking.

It's most famous for the single action, single shot action sequences, particularly there's a car attack, which is terrifying. And then there is a raid, like a battle sequence at the end that are filmed, you know, there's, you know, it's not like the studio, they're using a whip pin or whatever, but it is, but the effect is that you are just watching a single take

of absolutely wild stuff happening. But the whole movie is that level of like astonishing filmmaking and craft that works totally with the screenplay. It's not just doing it to be like, oh, and here's our one-er, like, oh, here we go. Look at us use the camera. It is, it works with the story. It works beautifully to, the way that you see this world because of the way they film it with just the one camera

and just following people is, like is magnificent because you can both learn everything, but as you said, it's focused on a small group of people. And so the way that they establish the world, the way they do exposition, even the visual composition of what you see in a frame and how you see. And there it's like absolutely grotesque things are happening in the background of almost every shot, but they are in the background. You know, like you mentioned Charlie Hunnam

is in this movie. I don't think his face is ever close enough to the camera to actually like face ID Charlie Hunnam. He may never be in focus. Yeah, exactly. So, but that works with works with that what the story itself, which is of like this one person who's co-opted in to try to figure out like his path

and this other person's path to safety and to savor the world and without knowing what else is going on because at this point in the existence of the world, like all you have is what you're doing every day and then whatever like propaganda is being artfully displayed on the various televisions. So it is like the real, it is practice like form and function, and all working together in a way that like is exhilarating. So the film, almost nothing that you see in the movie,

this is not a POV movie, it's not through the eyes of Theo, the Clive Oen character, but almost everything that you see is the sort of panorama of this world, is through his experience of the world. The thing is, is that it shows you those things, but it doesn't zero in on them. the sort of panorama of this world is through his experience of the world. The thing is that it shows you those things, but it doesn't zero in on them. It doesn't let you sit in them because essentially this character is always on the move. A handful of times when he's sitting, when he's in the home with Michael Caine's character,

the sort of like burnt out hippie who is his sort of former, you know, mentor, advisor, and friend. Moments when they have been captured and the birth sequence laid in the film is a sustained period of time where there's not a lot of movement. But the bulk of this film, these characters are on their feet and moving. And so even though we don't necessarily get every detail of this universe explained to us,

we get the occasional kind of news report where we hear something on television or on the radio. Right. But the idea of how the refugee camps work, as opposed to why they started and where they are specifically located. Like, we get dribs and drabs, but experientially, we understand and feel everything. I think that this serves the story really well.

I think when I look back on the movie, my only note is that I just wish I knew the characters a little bit better. I don't necessarily need to know Julian and Theo. I think what Clive Owen and Julian Moore get to do and how they get to show us what was of their relationship and what they lost when their son died is enough. Every other character in the movie,

I wish I, you know, I wish I understood Chuital Echefor just a little bit more. You know, what I like what he represents as a character, which is there are two sides to progress, to the idea of reaching progress. And I think the movie is sophisticated about this, this kind of forward action, direct action approach, which is the one he is taking, one that is violent, one that is aggressive, one that is meant to make a kind of spectacle of the rebellion versus the one that Julian and Theo ultimately portrays, which is like a humanist approach to this kind of thing. But the movie gives you a lot. I don't know. Even with the, the Chihuahua, Ejiofor character, Luke, I believe, which there's,

there's a lot of Bible running through this just Just, you know, but with a nice twist in that particular scene where the character, once the baby is born, I think is like absolutely like astonishing. And the way that every single person in this movie responds to the sight of this baby is like so revealing I think about the characters and the world and he has that moment where he's like sitting up by a window and Just being like I'd forgotten how beautiful they are and he's so visibly

Moved and also just like in between just shooting, you know out the window but I think he does an incredible job in that. And even those few moments of this character being... He's still so dead set on his ways, but also absolutely overcome with... What is essentially like hope, you know, in corporeal form for the first time for literally every single person in the world is, I know, in corporeal form for the first time for literally every single person in the world is, I think, really beautiful and says enough about him. And then also the fact that he keeps being like, I need him, I need him. And then there's that great moment of, no, it's a girl.

And he says, I had a sister once. Like, I do kind of feel like you get moments. I guess you don't know that much about Charlie Hunnam, except like he has dreads and he's not in focus. A lot of white dreads in this. There are, yeah. That's an interesting choice. I think, I haven't read this novel. I actually would like to give it a look because I think in novel form stories like this, characters are just deepened. This is a movie about images and feeling. You know, it is not a movie about character development. And archetypes, I think, even. You know, like the Jesus stuff is like, yeah. There's a Virgin Mary, Jesus, yeah, absolutely.

You know, we kind of, I know what we're drawing on here. Yeah, the, Zlava Zizic, the famed thinker and film fan, is a really big fan of this movie and has talked about it and written about it in the past. And one of the things that he points out that I think is super interesting is there's no sex in the movie. You know, that the conception is meant to seem immaculate, if not literally, then figuratively.

And even between former lovers like Theo and Julian, we don't see sex. Like, that isn't really what this world is about. It's about survival, and it's about procreation, but not in the same way. And I think like removing that, I think it kind of like withstands some of that religious imagery in a way. I think this is such an interesting movie for Cuaron to have chosen at this stage of his career because he's coming off of Itumama Tambien, which he says he sees as essentially his first real movie. He had made two films before that,

and those films were well-received, and he was considered, or he made three films before that. They were very well-received, but he was starting to feel like an assignment director, somebody who would get sent screenplays and would decide whether he wanted to make them. He made one film in his native Mexico, Solo con tu Parejo. He made A Little Princess and he made Great Expectations,

Great Expectations, a kind of much touted film starring Gwyneth Paltrow and Ethan Hawke, adaptation of Dickens that fizzled pretty hard. And so he resets- Don't fast forward past Little Princess though. adaptation of Dickens that fizzled pretty hard. Yeah. And so he resets. Don't fast forward Plast, Little Princess though. It's a good film. I haven't seen it in a very long time.

I mean, he doesn't have any bad films. Yeah. And what's interesting is that Solo con Tu Pareja and Little Princess and Great Expectations are all very different from one another. The production designs are very different. The pacing and tone is very different. He's like a real shapeshifter filmmaker.

Ituma Matai Bien is even more different from those films. That's like a road movie. It's a very personal movie. It's a movie about friendship, about love, about like who you are really in love with, identity, sexuality, freedom, right? In the face of the encroaching structures of life. Right. And the filmmaking style of that movie is weirdly very similar, even though the kind of movie it is, is very different,

which is like, it's a lot of handheld, it's a lot of follow, a lot of sort of like follow filmmaking, where your character is moving through the world and you're seeing that they're back and you're seeing what they're seeing very clearly. And you can see in Ito Ma Ma Tam Yan, which I really strongly considered pushing for in this spot,

because I'm very personally affected by the story in that movie. But... the fact that he makes that movie then takes a Harry Potter job. Yeah. It does a good job. And it's one of the best franchise movies of the 21st century in Prisoner of Azkaban. And then it's almost like he has to like cleanse out the taste of the franchise, of like the paycheck that he got, and makes this movie, which is just the most

grim subject matter possibly imaginable. And a real cocktail of grim subject matters. I haven't read the full P.D. James novel. I read some of it. subject matters. I haven't read the full PD James novel. I read some of it. Um, but the, the refugee element of this film, which is a major part of the plot in that key, the, the mother figure is a refugee and you know, needs to be able to travel, but there are a huge amount of restrictions.

And also, I mean, she's constantly in danger in Britain. And then also, visually, we pass cages, we pass camps, there is the final act takes place in a camp. So that is all stuff that Cuarón added, that he used the novel as a sort of jumping off point. And the Petey James novel, as you know, I did jumping back and forth, as best I could tell, kind of more class focused,

and that is what Peters out in the, which, you know, makes sense, a British novel. You guys are never gonna get over that apparently. I mean, we aren't either, but along with the infertility which you know just becomes just the total lack of of hope and a future and that there's nothing to live for and the movie does like amazing images you know the the the empty playground and then key on the empty playground. I like I feel a little sick right now just thinking about it. So it brings all of that to life. And then it adds in a lot of images

that we have come to have comps for in real life. And it is really pretty astonishing and upsetting and timely. If you situate the movie upon its release, it's 2006, we're engaged in international conflict in the United States of America. The P.D. James novel is 1992, is when it's published. So this film in a post-9-11 world, in a Operation Iraqi Freedom universe. I mean, there are some like Abu Ghraib references in the background. of Grabe, Guantanamo Bay. There's clearly a lot of these forces, a lot of these current events are informing a lot of what Cuaron and the writers are after

in terms of what they're trying to portray about. Effectively, what can happen and what a police state can do in the face of a crisis like this. That this would send the world into a tailspin and that its citizenry would then be really vulnerable to the powers that be taking more control and creating, you know, there's these interesting images of protest in the movie that be taking more control and creating, you know, there's these interesting images of protest in the movie that are shot through the lens of faith. You know, a lot

of the protesters are sort of like, will God ever forgive us for what we have done and we are being punished for this transgression? And then there are other examples where there is just this pure sort of like, like I said, direct action, progressive citizenry that is attempting to form and use sometimes non-violent, sometimes violent means to accomplish their goals. The fact that it was made in 2006 and all of these events are happening and informing them doesn't foresee what's coming with the first Trump administration, with what's happening with ICE, with what's happening with literally children in cages, and, you know, parental separation, and all these awful things that have happened in our world in

the last 10 years. But Cuaron and the writers are smart enough to know that that reality was in touching distance. Obviously, we don't live inside of children of men. That would be a gross overstatement. But there are literal details of this world that are shown in the movie that are actually happening right now. Yes. And, you know, this is usually not a very serious show. We usually like to have a lot of fun. But the movie is very chilling in the way it portrays some of these things. And honestly, really, that in those images of the cages, in the recreation of some of

the torture images, things do not look that different. And one of the, like, amazing and incredibly scary parts of this film is the way it creates a dystopia that is really not that far from, you know, everything is like grimeier, but it is, it's set in London and it's like Big Ben is still there and like St. Paul's is still there and there's still a double-decker bus and the opening shot Is of the Clive Owen character Theo in a coffee shop where like he's going to get coffee and and so is everyone else The world is going on exactly like that. It's the BCC instead of the BBC I guess but they they use the chime They like get really close to that, as close as they can,

is like reporting on horrors like worldwide, but, you know, and it's like very calm BBC voice. So that, the fact that the world is so recognizable like in this dystopia and then also that so many of the images from the migrant crisis to torture, to militarization, to all of these issues are also so recognizable from real life is, I mean, it's emotionally walloping.

It's really, really messed up. And we didn't even mention the pandemic stuff, which is just like, it's like a, it's like a back note, but the, the Theo and Jul, Julianne, who's that's Julianne Moore is named Julianne. Their son dies and died in a flu pandemic. Yeah. Into like 2008 or something. But I mean, you know, that's what COVID was. It's like, it's just what the hell. There are a lot of scientists and futurists who have been foretelling matters like this.

And, you know, it's not just to have just been prescient would not have been enough. Obviously, it's the collision of this incredible filmmaking style. Truly amazing actors being thrust into this world and being able to give performances. Like we always talk about the kind of physicality and athleticism of the filmmakers and of the camera. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Clive Owen's performance in this movie, specifically that raid that you're talking about near the end of the film when he's been separated from Key and he's trying to find her by following the baby's cries and the camera is following him and he is like leaping from space to space. I feel nauseous right now. He really is getting an amazing physical performance in this movie. You know, he's an actor who was the top of the billing star for a hot minute. You know, when this is around the time of Closer, the Mike Nichols film, you know, coming out of the big success of Croupier.

He made a couple of cool movies. Did a very important Wimbledon intro voiceover. I don't remember that, but I'll take your word for it. Um, but he's fantastic in this movie. The other thing that I wanted to note is I think the music is so, so good. It's so good. So John Tavenner composed the music, and there are a ton of great needle drops.

There's one that sticks out in my... There's two that stick out in my mind. One, as we're seeing this sort of landscape of London that is sort of burnt out and you've got protesters and you've got military and police and people trying to go about their day. You can hear in the court of the Crimson King by King Crimson, which is sort of like dystopian, 70s prog rock epic.

And then the sequence when we first see Theo and Michael Caine's character seated together, they're listening. He's, Michael Caine's character seated together. They're listening. Michael Caine is listening to music. He cares for his wife, who it appears has Alzheimer's, or is disconnected somehow. I think, I mean, they in background in newspapers

suggest that she was tortured as well. OK. Because of her politics? There's some headline MA5 torches journalists or something. Okay. And so he cares for her, grows pot in his house and tries to wild away the hours while keeping the faith of the cause. And they're listening to a song called Life in a Glass House by Radiohead, which is the last song on amnesia. And it's a very unusual Radiohead song and features like a New Orleans brass band. And it sounds like a funeral dirge.

It sounds like literally Radiohead is like walking down the streets in New Orleans and Thom Yorke is like wailing his weird Thom Yorke wail surrounded by this huge brass band. And I've always loved that song. And I've always been like, this is the song you play like right before you die. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So there are a handful of really clever needle drops mixed in with this sort of like choral symphonic score throughout the film that toggles between doom and hope. Right. Which is really what the movie is. The movie is a story about people who are on the precipice of disaster trying to find a reason to keep going to survive to find something else. I'm so struck by the final sequence. I guess if you haven't seen this movie, we're talking about lots of detail.

When they leave the building and every single... And it's just the reaction shot of every single person. So every single soldier observing the baby crying, which you talked about. It's unbelievable. But then leading all the way up until the rowboat. And finding escape, thanks to this woman who is described as a gypsy or an Arab, the immigration cop Sid, played by Peter Mullen, doesn't know, which kind of is also like a little detail where it's like, I don't care what these people are or what they're about.

And she effectively saves them. I mean, she is like an angel to them and takes them to safe harbor. And then they're just kind of rolling out into the nothingness, the vast nothingness of the sea, hoping to be saved. Which is what life feels like sometimes, you know? It's a very powerful visual image. And I guess I won't spoil anything more than that. And then the final line, which you know is coming and is in some ways so classic Hollywood, put the button on the kicker, but in the moment and after what you've been through is so lovely and emotional, which is like I'll call my baby Dylan. It's a girl's name too.

Yeah, yeah. And sorry, it's like it's an incredibly moving movie and moment. And that also is that's happening. I mean, spoiler, we're spoiling it, I guess. Turn this off. Yeah, Clive Bowen is, that's it. That's like, that's his moment of release, which is like, oh God, like two parents are just crying right now.

Great movie. It's like, that's his moment of release, which is like, oh God, like two parents are just crying right now. Great movie. It's a wonderful movie. And when it was released, everyone knew that it was a great movie. It was widely hailed. Yeah, but- And yet- But more like critical,

like more critical, Fave. So what happened here? This is 2006. So this is the departed year? It is. I mean, just some, with all respect, to our number one guy and to the departed, which is a great movie that you guys watched in Boston

recently, this is a weird year. People, 2005, 2006, the Oscars did not cover themself in glory. Yeah. So this movie, you got, the Oscars did not cover themself in glory. Yeah. So, um, this movie got three Oscar nominations. And there are three of the right kind of nominations. It got a best adapted screenplay nomination.

It got a best cinematography nomination. And it got a best film editing nomination. Usually when a film has those three nominations, they're pretty likely to get Best Director and Best Picture. You know, we know this from talking about the Oscars non-stop on this show. That's true. Cuarón not nominated. No. Not nominated for Best Picture. No. No performance nominations. And not only that, the film did not win any of the three prizes it was nominated for. You fucked up! Just for the sake of context, you know, I don't think 2006 is the worst year by any means, but the nominees that year were the departed, as you said, the winner, Babel,

Letters from Iwo Jima, Little Miss Sunshine, and The Queen. May I have some notes? What happened? Why did this happen? This movie was released on December 25th, 2006. Maybe it was too late and people were just too bummed out by it. I don't know. When was the Departed released? Departed was... yeah, October. It was in October, that's what I'm going to say. But I feel like Letters from Iwo Jima was later in the year, right?

Yeah, that was December 20th, 2006. I mean, look, I think Letters from Iwo Jima is a very good film. I think both of those Clint, that pair of World War II films that he made are good films. I think Little Miss Sunshine was an absolute phenomenon coming out of Sundance and just ran the table for a long stretch there. I get it. Huge box office hit. Babel sucks. And of course, Inaritu is one of Quarone's best friends and he's among with the three amigos along with Del Toro. You know, you and I are not the biggest Ina Ritu fans on the show. We're gonna have to deal with that in a little while.

Um... When Tom... Yes, yes, in two seconds. I didn't mean on the list. I'm not putting it... Yeah, I thought you meant when... Spoiler! Ina Ritu, not on this list! No, no, he's not on the list. But I thought you meant like when Children of Men comes,

and we are confronted by Ina Ritu. Um... You know, I'm not a fan of Babel and I think The Queen is a good movie, but it's not Children of Men. Yeah, no, it's not Children of Men. I like it a lot. That's a tough one. Um, there is a great directing nominee from that year, Paul Greengrass for United 93, another movie that was sort of in the aftermath of living in 2001 and thinking about kind of, you know, obviously,

that's a pure docudrama recreating something that had happened. But this is a real old school Oscar travesty that this movie was not recognized in its time. I was thinking back on our list so far. So just some list notes. This is our second novel adaptation out of four. And I think we've got one Oscar total among four movies. One win. Is it just Tilda Swinton? And I think we've got one Oscar total among four movies.

One win. Is it just Tilda Swinton? Yes. Did Michael Clayton win anything else? I don't think so. Yeah. That's it. And I don't think the handmaiden wasn't even nominated for by an international feature. Something's got to give snubbed down the line. No. Diane Keene was nominated for… She was nominated, but she didn't win. Yeah.

Did she win the Globe that year? That sounds right. OK. I mean, that's not surprising, right? So that's where we're tracking. We do have some best picture winners on our list. We have a couple. We have a couple.

But that's, we're tracking towards, you know, writing wrongs. Yes. You know, I've just remembered a scene from this film that I love that when I rewatched it, and it's relevant to this conversation about kind of historicizing art. Oh, the Danny Houston scene. The Danny Houston scene, which is really, really good and shows you one little portrait of the world inside the world that's happening in this movie. Danny Houston plays a very powerful man who is a friend of the Theo character who he goes to to get transit papers, but we see that he is living lavishly. So lavishly, in fact, that he has Gernika in his home.

Yeah. And Michael Angelus David. And he has the David statue in his home. But he has these works of art, devoid of admiration. There's no one in the world who can enjoy these works except for him. Right. Not even his son, Ed Westwick, who is like using a weird computer with his hand, you know. Again, extremely precious. Yes, exactly. Like he's basically playing Minecraft.

Yes. Right. In an Argyle sweater. Yes. I find that scene to be wildly unnerving. As unnerving as any violent action sequence in the movie because he does something that I am guilty of, which is he just sort of pretends whatever's happening outside is not happening.

And that compartmentalization, putting that in the movie and showing that there are people who could make more change but won't make more change. Even the Theo character is, I mean, he starts the movie one way and moves towards another and it is really the memory of his own son He starts the movie, you know, one way and moves towards another, and it is really the memory of his own son that impels him to do that, and this last idea of a tiny bit of hope.

But, yeah, it's what happens when we all do that is this. Yeah, I think there's really something to that. I think there's really something to the urgency I think there's really something to the urgency and in some ways necessity of this movie that it is kind of fearless in showing what happens if you take a back seat. Now I can argue that celebrating art and celebrating humanity on a daily basis on podcasts is not nothing. It's a little something. That's true. It's not a lot.

I think, yeah. So if you're doing it publicly, basically, Danny Houston keeping Garenica in his house is as to you building your own little DVD library just for yourself. Before we started recording, I just told you I would lend it to you. That's true. I would share the great works. Where are you going to open it up? Well, I'll see. You'll be there Sunday. So maybe that will be the time to do it.

Um, recommend it if you like. We probably could go on and on because there is a vast history of post-apocalyptic cinema. Obviously, if you like Cuaron and Cuaron, who, you know, went on to make Gravity, which is one of the great crowd pleasers of its time. Sure. And the Oscars celebrated that one. Which felt like a bit of a too late thing.

Yeah, agree. Space is cool, but, you know, that's a good meme of Sandra Bullock. That's me at the end of every Solid Core class. Floating in space or on the beach? No, on the beach. But laying face down, like I actually do that. And then I think of that one image. So, you know, in terms of image making, it stays with me every day. In this equation, I'm dead George Clooney? Yeah, yes.

Almost. I like Gravity. When I saw Gravity in movie theaters, I loved it. Yeah. It's a movie that has not held up to rewatches. The characterization is pretty minimal in that movie. Also got to say, 90 minutes long. You're in, you're out. It is 90 minutes long. Yeah.

This one is under two hours. Thank you. It, it feels really tight. Yeah. Children of men. Um, in 2018, he made Roma, deeply personal movie about growing up in Mexico and the caregivers who he lived with. That is a beautiful film that I think also kind of like hit us really in a deep place.

Yes. Um, and he hasn't made a movie and made one series for Apple called Disclaimer, but I watched two and a half episodes of it. I never saw, but I listened to, I know what the twist is. Do you know what the twist is? I don't, I'm sure I heard Chris and Andy discuss it on a podcast.

Yeah, that's how I learned it. I'll tell you once we're done recording. Okay, I can't even remember. We spoil children of men, but we won't spoil Disclaimer starring Cate Blanchett. Every artist has their journey. I... Make another movie, bro. I'm eager for Cuarón to come back to films.

I think, especially at a time like this, a person who knows how to make movies that are meant to be seen in theaters. All of his movies are, I've seen all of them since Itumamataambien in theaters. I was fortunate enough to see Rome at the New York Film Festival. Yeah. And he has an extraordinary gift for image making and pace and tone that is almost unmatched and he can do any kind of movie. And like, we just need more movies from him. So I hope he makes more movies.

So in addition to his movies, if you love his films, I think all of the sort of political dramas of Costa Gavras, you know, Z is the most famous for sure, but we talked about Missing on the 1982 movie draft with Tracy Letts, which is a terrific movie with Jack Lemmon and Cissy Spacek. I think State of Siege. I think The Confession. You know, most of his films in the 70s are excellent. You should seek those out if you like this movie.

Blade Runner. Yeah, of course, great call Also kind of prescient movie about a police state and You know, there's a little bit more and what I robotics like but this mug is really going what was what? What was the Blade Runner year was in 2019 2022? Blade Runner year? Was it 2019, 2022? Blade Runner year? 2023? 80, okay, no, that's when it was released, 2019.

2019, okay. It's according to AI, I didn't check it, so you know. I don't usually recommend TV, but we actually both have TV recommendations in this list. That's true. Well, both of my recommendations were like, if you thought that was good, then let's try something really good.

Oh, interesting. Yeah. But, you know. Oh, meaning if you... Oh, if you... I seriously say, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. These are slightly lesser than. Yeah. Right, but it's like, if you... They're both successful, so if you like them,

let me really blow your mind with Children of Men. I'm a fan of The Leftovers. And I think The Leftovers, I don't usually recommend television on this show. I think The Leftovers is, I don't have the same, I don't hold it in the same esteem that I think some of our colleagues do. I don't think it's like, you know, Mina Kimes, our friend, that's like what, I think that's her favorite show of all time.

But there are certain things specifically in the second season of the show that feel very closely synced to this sense of like societal decay in the face of an inexplicable event that really resonates with me. The same is true of 12 Monkeys, another movie that is very wildly different in tone but feels very similar. And then I just wanted to give a quick shout out to Peter Watkins' Punishment Park, which is completely different in style, but not different in tone.

A 70s British film that I think people would enjoy. That's more of me recommending a movie to people that fewer people have seen than Children of Man. What are the two that you wanted to point out? So, if recommended, if you like is the prompt. So, if you thought Civil War was good, let me show you what can really happen when you do like some exposition and world building that makes sense, like a line around

bang up action sequences. And it's about a group of people trying to navigate the end of the world. Very similar films. They're trying to do more than take a picture. So, you know, there's that. And then The Handmaid's Tale, which is a wildly popular TV show Very similar films. They're trying to do more than take a picture. So you know, there's that. And then The Handmaid's Tale, which is a wildly popular TV show predicated on what happens

when reproduction is the government's business in one way or another. And the world's business is large, at large. And I, you know, that show is somehow still going on, or it just released another season. I feel like they've eclipsed the novel at this point. I think they eclipsed the novel in like season two. Yeah. But anyway. I did watch the first season of that show.

I did too. I'm a big Elizabeth Moss believer. As am I. The needle drops in that, in The Handmaid's Tale, were a bit much for me. But again, if you like that, then here are some real needle drops. Yes, the needle drops in this movie are superior.

I'm just gonna say, yeah. Children of Men is an all-time classic. Will we regret placing it at 22? I don't know. Probably. We could do this whole thing with regret, but what if instead we appreciated the fact that we got to this? I was psyched.

I was like driving into work today and I can't wait to talk about this movie. I've been talking a lot about it. We both almost cried. Yeah. Yeah. Well, like we kind of did, but like we held it back. Um, but I was also like very excited to talk about a good film. I've been talking about this with the people in my life, which is really nice.

And they're all like involved and they have notes and they wanna, you know, I did, I had dinner with friends last night and they were like, oh, are you sure Children of Men shouldn't be top 10? As soon as I told them. So Jake, you're right. And then our friend Izzy was like, oh, you guys are getting really serious, huh?

So it's fun. I like the feedback. I like that people are involved. I like that we're doing this. I think next week we'll shift the tone again It's fun. I like the feedback. I like that people are involved. Yes. I like that we're doing this. I think next week we'll shift the tone again. Yeah. For a different kind of film. No less death-defying.

That's true. But different in tone, so it won't be that serious all the way through. I'm looking forward to continuing on while living with regret every day. Thank you. That's what you do. Thank you. That is what I do. That is what I do. Thank you to our producer, Jack Sanders, for his work on this episode. Later this week, building the Val Kilmer Hall of Fame

in honor of one of the great actors of the 90s and 2000s who recently passed. We will see you then. you