The Big Picture - The 25 Best Movies of the Century: No. 24 - ‘The Handmaiden’

Episode Date: March 26, 2025

Sean and Amanda return to continue their year-long project of listing the 25 best movies of the 21st century so far with a discussion of Park Chan-wook’s ‘The Handmaiden,’ the 2016 erotic thriller period piece starring Kim Tae-ri and featuring some of the best camera work and production design of the century. They talk about Park Chan-wook’s incredible ability to complicate simple stories with depth of design, how it portrays the complicated power dynamics of sex, and why its layered portrayal of shifting psychological perspectives is so impactful. Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Senior Producer: Bobby Wagner Video Producer: Jack Sanders Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is presented by Audi. The all-new fully electric Audi Q6 e-tron is a huge leap forward featuring effortless power, serious acceleration, and the most advanced tech of any Audi ever. Experience technology that puts you center stage with a panoramic digital stage, plus an optional screen for front seat passengers so they can kick back with a movie. Q6 e-tron is not just a new EV, it's a new way to experience driving. Learn more at AudiUSA.com. Always pay careful attention to the road and do not drive while distracted. Join the high-volume trend with YSL Love Shine Plumping Lip Oil Gloss. Formulated for maximized volume and 24-hour hydration, this gloss delivers a non-sticky,

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Is that what you want to do going forward? The Handmaiden, I mean I guess it's in the title of the episode so people already know. Yes, they're not surprised. Yeah. How do you think everyone's feeling right now? About this choice? Yeah. I hope excited. Me too.

You know, I think there's been some speculation that this would be a wildly predictable list and it would be only movies that we've talked about in the past and I don't think we've really talked about The Handmaiden very much, so I'm excited to talk to you about it today. No, it came out in like a special time just before the show.

Yes. And, or maybe it was like the earliest, like the chrysalis phases of the show, if that's the correct. Yes. And... Or maybe it was like the earliest, like the chrysalis phases of the show, if that's the correct scientific term. Absolutely. And... And now we are a full-blown butterfly. And that's...

Out of the chrysalis. And he was a beautiful butterfly. That's the last page of The Very Hungry Caterpillar, for those of you not in this phase of life. Yeah, so this is a fun one to get to talk about. Yeah, so this is a fun one to get to talk about. Yeah, so this is a 2016 masterpiece by the South Korean filmmaker Park Chan-wook. It came out September 27, 2016. It's available to stream now on Amazon Prime Video, where it has been available to stream throughout its entirety.

Tell you what, I did not remember that this was paid for and released by Netflix. Amazon. I mean, Amazon. Yes. Yes. In part. Sorry. In part. Paid for by Amazon. I mean, Amazon, yes. In part, in part. In part. Paid for by Amazon. But that is an important part of this conversation.

It's also written by Park and co-written by Jiang So-Kyung, who is a co-writer on a number of Park's films. It's based on a, I would say, acclaimed and maybe even beloved 2002 novel by the Welsh novelist Sarah Waters. Shout out Sarah Waters. Sarah Waters' novel is set in 19th century England.

This film, of course, is set in Korea under Japanese colonial control. In the 30s. In the 1930s, so just pre-war. And the title is Victorian slang for pickpocket. Fingersmithous. Yes, which is a punning reference to the dexterity of, quote, the lesbian hand, as the writer Laura Miller put it. And the handmaiden is also sort of a punning reference

to the lesbian hand. We'll get more into that discussion shortly. It stars essentially four actors, King Min-hee, Kim Tae-ri, Ha Jung-woo, and Cho Jin-woon. And this is a fascinating period piece. It is... Well, I'll give you the brief description of the plot for the listeners at home who are not familiar with this movie.

We will be spoiling this movie throughout this conversation. If you haven't seen it, please, please turn this off and go watch it because, and especially if you also have not read the Sarah Waters novel, it is propulsive and there are twists and you don't wanna see the twists coming. Yes, so in this story with the help from an orphaned pickpocket, a Korean con man devises

an elaborate plot to seduce and bilk a Japanese woman out of her inheritance. That is some of the story, in a way. That's the first 20 minutes. It is the first 20 minutes. Um, okay, so the question that we always open this conversation with is, why did the handmaiden make this list?

Mm-hmm. I've accumulated a significant number of reasons for this. Right, because you're kind of talking yourself into it a little bit. I don't want to spoil our selection committee conversation. But we can spoil this part of it. That we went back and forth between the Handmaiden and Oldboy, which is of course, Park Jin Wook's like, breakthrough in America at least, revenge, you know, psychotic thriller, you know, depressive, whatever is going on there. Yeah, existentialist action masterpiece.

And what he was first known, at least in the US for, and I think what a lot of people might assume would be on this list. And we went back and forth, and I do think a lot of people might assume would be on this list. And we went back and forth. And I do think I said to you, if you would like to put old boy, you can do it. I'm open to it. I understand its historical significance,

the fight in the hall. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We all know. For me, this is a no-brainer. So I didn't have to talk myself into this. I just prefer the handmaiden. When I was making my list in my head, I went to The Handmaiden first.

I think Oldboy is quote unquote more important, whatever that means, to the canon, to the introduction of, you know, the South Korean New Wave Cinema and all these things that happened. And we'll be talking about it as we go through this episode and frankly through this list. But this movie, I I think is the culmination

of a lot of what he was driving towards but just done in a slightly different register. Which is to say, it is quite violent, like Oldboy, in a slightly different way. It is quite sexual, it is quite extreme, it is quite intense, it is a pure thriller. He is one of the great living thriller filmmakers. It also I think is elevated I guess

by the historical setting, the milieu, the production design. It being a period piece, I think, is actually a very comfortable place for Park, even though he doesn't make a lot of period pieces. He tends to make more contemporary set thrillers. So this is a little bit outside of what he's most familiar with, but also, I think, really speaks to one of his strengths, which is sort of like complicating what seemed to be simple stories with this like depth of design that goes into the stories. So this movie in particular, because of Waters' kind of source material, is really naughty

and really kind of obsessed with class and power and gender dynamics and sexuality and the way the power is conferred in sexuality. And so this is like really rich text for him. He tends to work on original material most of the time. And this being an adaptation makes it a really fascinating one. So it actually was not a hard choice for me. I think when I think of it, yeah. Well, the thing is, is like, there's the list that represents everything that

matters to cinema history, or at least the 21st century, and then there's what you really like the best. Yes. I think this is probably my favorite of his movies, so that's the end. This movie's wild. Everything that you just said in terms of it being a marriage of... even of his themes and interests and also his tremendous craft skills, production, design, but also just things being very weird and funny and unexpected. And he's adapting a novel. So

there's a lot of story. Like it moves, it is propulsive. And just when you think, you know, what's going on, it shifts in a way that is disorienting just on a basic story level, but is certainly in his wheelhouse. So it is, it's a great showcase for him. And as you said, kind of an elevation for him, but I just, it's, this movie is so fun to watch. Yeah, it feels like a page-turner. Yeah. I mean, it is an erotic thriller. And that's another thing, like we don't really have another erotic thriller on the list that I can think of off the top of my head. At least, not yet.

This is one of the reasons why I felt like it was an important addition to the list, which is a sort of lorid but classy drama. Right. AKA erotic thriller. It's something that in the 21st century, the United States basically punted on. Sure, yeah. It kind of went out of fashion. We no longer made them in the same way

that we did in the 80s and 90s. And across Europe and Asia, they have persisted. You know, we've had Stranger by the Lake, Blue is the Warmest Color, we've had Black Book, we've had The Skin I Live In, the works of Luca Guadagnino. Like every single one? So there have been a lot of examples

of these kinds of movies that have proliferated. I think this is probably the best of the best. And so it's also an interesting space to show us like really transgressive images. You know, in this movie, you see lashed asses, you see scissoring women, you know, you see like tongues interconnected, interwoven in emotional and sensual poses. Like it is- There's real innovation in camera angles used during sex scenes. And like, there has been, as there is with all movies

featuring any type of sex, some conversation about whether this is exploitative or quote unquote, liberating especially, because the majority of the sex scenes, like the actual sex, as opposed to just a tremendous amount of weird porn. Yes. Well, literature, painting. Literature, yeah.

But I mean, it is. A sort of prehistoric porn. Yeah, it's old school pornography. Pre-video. You know the way we did it back in the day, kids, before the internet. When you draw two stick figures banging each other. But the actual, like, these sex acts that you see, which, by the way you do, are all between two women.

And they are photographed with gusto. And many people rightly feel with that, with cliché bordering on exploitation. I just think that it's kind of exciting. And there is that inventiveness, even the camera angle, which is, you know, going in a certain way. Yeah, the head shot.

But what you're seeing is someone's face and someone's enthusiasm at being there as opposed to the actual canal, for lack of a better word. So- Canal, eh? Well, you know. Entry point? Well, all of the various euphemisms that are read

in the reading scenes are floating through my head right now. This sex is the text of the movie in a lot of ways. And it is their sex scenes are the only like pleasure, only like freedom, only like actual expression of feeling in the entire movie. So for me it works, but you know, if you would like to read the scissoring debate, like that's available for you online.

Yeah. And I and I acknowledge that I have respect for that criticism, but we can talk about it, I think, in the context of character and plot, because in this story, this young woman who Kim Min-hee portrays is the niece of a very powerful man, a Korean man who has moved to Japan, who is attempting to essentially become a naturalized Japanese citizen and to adopt this sort of Japanese lifestyle. This man is a forager and he's a collector of rare things. And in the event that he can't collect the rare thing, he makes a fake version of it. And he draws the nobleman from Japan into his kind of lair, his reading room, his study,

where once his wife read these erotic stories, now he has enlisted his young niece to do the same thing. And he's building sort of the library of Alexandria, but of written porn. Horny octopuses, yes. And in this movie, this character, Hideo, who Kim and he portrays, effectively learns about sexuality by having this forced exposure at a very young age, I think as early as five years old, to this literature, to these paintings. And so when you fast forward further into her life, when she becomes kind of ensnared or does the ensnaring and the con that is attempted and she falls in love with the

character who Kim Tae-ri plays, the sex that they're having is sex that she learned about in these books and in these paintings. So when Kim Tae-ri's character is sort of like, wow, this is your first time? It's like, yes, it's her first time, but she's been studying for the test for 20 years. You know, like she's really ready and she's kind of overdoing it. You know, forgive this comparison, but I think this is very applicable to modern times. You know, you sometimes hear women say when they're having, you know, relations with a man for the first time, that like the man is trying to act like he's in a porno.

Yeah, exactly. You know, because he's been watching porn his entire adolescence, and then he's like bringing the moves to the table that maybe you're not actually what it's like when you're intimate with someone. And so the movie is, the same way that this movie is just kind of outsized, over the top thriller, the sex scenes are outsized and over the top

for reasons that are informed by the character. So like, I think any movie that is about two lesbians directed by a man is gonna come under this criticism. And I understand that. I think in this case, it is more than earned. I think Blue is the Warmest Color is an interesting comparison point, a movie that received significant accusations of exploitation and unrealistic sexual portrayal in a movie that is otherwise

more gritty and sort of more realistic. This is this Grand G Guignol period piece with all this wild design and hands being cut off and bleeding from orifices and all this wild stuff. It's a park movie. And I do also think, and spoiler alert, like the end and the sex and the whole engine of the film does move towards these two women being able to do whatever

they want together outside the auspices of men, outside the auspices of all like the weird expectations of porn and they even kind of like use a something from a prior scene and a prior reading is like repurposed to signify that they're like on their their own doing having a great time just themselves which is not often the case in like queer cinema and you know the the women women especially are often like punished for finding each other and having a great time no so yeah this is this is an awakening this is is an act of rebellion and independence. Like it is a very kind of up feeling version of the story even though it is kind of depraved

in how we eventually get to the conclusion. And like they are very naked on screen. So, you know. They are deeply naked. Both actresses are, you know, Kim Tae-ri in particular this is her feature debut as a performer. Kim Min-hee is an interesting actress. She is best known, I think, as the muse for Hong Sung-Soo,

another Korean director who is a part of this wave of filmmakers along with Bong Joon-Ho and Kim Ki-Duck and Kim Ji-Woon and all these filmmakers who kind of emerged in the late 90s, early 2000s. They all aren't making the same kinds of movies. Like Martin Scorsese describes Hong Sung-soo as the Woody Allen of Korea, in part because he makes a movie every year. Those movies return to very similar themes. Kim Min-hee is in a lot of those movies.

Those movies are nothing formally like The Handmaiden. Kim Tae-ri never acted before and is put in this incredibly... Vulnerable. Vulnerable, yes. Open, revealing situation. And this character is also really interesting because when we're introduced to her, we feel that she has the upper hand. Yeah.

And by the time we get to the end of the first act and the movie is cut into three acts in a formal way, it indicates when we're moving to a new act, the tables turn on her dramatically. Yeah. That's so exhilarating. It's an incredible moment in the movie. And it had that great feeling when you're watching a thriller, when you're watching a David Fincher movie, when you're watching a Bong Joon-Ho movie,

where you're like, -"Oh, oh, is this really..." -"Oh, yes." -"Oh, no." -"And you're like..." And you're confused for a second, and then you have this moment, this dawning realization of the story is not what it was presented as, which is also obviously a great literary trick. I haven't read the Sarah Waters novel. Did you look at it?

I looked at it. I was not able to read all of it. But it is broken into three parts. And the basic plots, even down to the uncle as a collector of literary porn, are the same. But that first act reveal is, I think, pretty exact. OK. Or, you know, as close enough as an adaptation gets. Yeah, I mean, I think that in particular

is really fascinating. And then, I think the reading sequences where we see what this devious uncle is forcing his family to do are fascinating. The movie is like a story of shifting perspectives. The three parts have three different perspectives. We see the movie through the eyes of all of the main characters at various times.

But then also during these reading sequences, we see the story that is being told through the eyes of the men who are observing the story being read and placing themselves in this kind of traditional Dom sub story of like being submissive to a powerful woman... Right. Who is in fact in the reading of the story,

the opposite of powerful, but has been forced to read those stories by her domineering uncle. So like, it's just a really layered, psychological mind game of power. Right. And also in all of that, indicting the audience at the same time and bringing in like how you watch a movie, how you watch a movie,

how you watch these things, how you consume porn, I guess, but really any sort of sexual content and really just how your mind processes these images and the audiences or the viewers' relationship to them is pretty fascinating. It's really, really smart. There are a handful of, I guess, famous works that are cited in the movie. You know, the dream of the fisherman's wife.

Whenever you hear someone say the word hentai in a joking fashion on this podcast or maybe elsewhere, this sort of like the octopus raping a woman. This is probably the painting that they're thinking of. Katsushika Hokusai is the artist, the Japanese artist of the Edo period. And there's a direct reference to this painting in the film. I was gonna Google this. And then who was the politician that was like searching hentai but then typed it into the Twitter search bar and said,

I was like so afraid that I didn't do it. I was just kind of like, I'm gonna trust Sean on this one. I did link to it so you could take a look at it in the document, however, the site that I used to link was fineartamerica.com. Okay, all right. So hopefully, in the event that someone goes browsing in my cookies, they see that this is,

I'm just looking at a piece of fine art. This is actually a shower curtain on this image. Oh, okay, normal. Here you can see. Okay, yeah, I mean, it is a very famous image. As soon as you see it, you would recognize it. But also imagine showing up at someone's house and that's on the shower curtain.

Yes. The plum in the golden vase, I think, is the story that Hideko's character is reading during the movie, which is a Chinese erotic classic. Not one I've previously read before. I'll maybe look into it as I go forward. The other thing that I like that is sort of a reflection of that guys watching porn thing is near the end of the film, the uncle character is inquiring with someone in the story who has had sex with his niece and he's asking very specific questions about like how it was and what it was

like. And it's real like virgin energy. It's real like never had sex before. Yeah, never been outside of that basement or that reading room. Yes, even though this was a married person and you, the fate of his wife is a big part of this story, that feeling of like, or even just the sick perversion of hearing details, especially for a person in your family, the whole movie is very, very twisted, but very entertaining in that way. I mean, in some ways, it's just about, like, how do people get off, you know? And, like, what gets people off?

Totally. And in that context, the two women having sex together is, you know, is the purest version, right? It is. And I think whether or not this is a love story or a sex story, I think is an interesting question. Yeah, for me, I think it's more of a sex story, but that's okay. I mean, there is, again, there, and again, spoilers, there's also this end of the second act has a reveal as well, which is like equally exhilarating.

And you know, that kind of famous light, like, you know, my Tamako, my Tsuki. There was like some romance to that. The score in this movie is tremendous. And like, you know, like a bit melodramatic and sweeping in, you know, in keeping with the rest of the film. So once they like get over the fence together

and are running through the field for the second time and the music is going, there is something like traditionally pretty romantic about it, I guess. But no, they're just kind of like, there's no them falling in love. There's just deep seduction. Like, the scene in the bath with the tooth, which is, like, very hot, but... Yeah, which is filing it down.

Yeah. But, you know, that's... They aren't exchanging ideas, you know? No, but they're all... All of those images, like in all of Parks movies, are sometimes they're, like, these really leaden metaphors, or they're just, like, banging you over the head with things, or it's just like, I can smooth down what's sharp in your life with like my gentle touch, you know? Like there's some very obvious stuff.

But I think if you looked at the poster of this film, even though it does have this kind of gesturing physical touch where she's holding one character's hand and there's a hand on her shoulder, you would still think, oh, this is like a pre-war, stately, you know, Korean period piece. You know, this is a piece pre-war, stately, you know, Korean period piece. Right. You know, this is a piece about the occupation of a country.

This is a piece about class. It is those things, but it's also just this like, horn dog extravaganza. Yeah. And the thing that I have- That's about sex as power. Completely. And sex and the way that,

the way that sex is floating under everything from a class structure to the way lives are organized. The thing is, the secret of like most costume dramas and period pieces is that like there's no sex and everyone is like terrified, so terrified of sex, but it is all essentially still about sex because it's about like who is allowed to have sex, who's not allowed to have sex, who is having sex.

It's like how all the worlds are organized and have been forever. So this is just kind of making it extremely literal. Sometimes when you read about the evolution of movie history, you hear that some filmmakers are stymied by censorship laws and what they could or could not show. And if you look at someone like Park, I think one of the great things about looking at movies

through the arc of a hundred years is, if you like a certain kind of movie, in this case a thriller, you can say, okay, you know, they really start, let's just say for the sake of conversation with like Fritz Lang's M and then Alfred Hitchcock kind of takes the ball and runs with it and makes a very specific kind of movie that is very much in the lineage of this movie, a movie about sex and power, about wealth, class, and the exertion of those things on to, from men to women. Sometimes Hitchcock's movies can be really cruel. There's very cruel elements in this movie too. But because of the times in which he was making them, they didn't really feature any sex. They hardly featured any nudity at all, even leading all the way up to the 1970s.

It feels like Park is basically just like continuing the mission with a movie like this, which is like, how can you be both a pervert and kind of like ethical in the storytelling, for lack of a better word. And also kind of interrogating like, what does it mean to actually wanna see that? You know, and as a viewer, as a consumer, as a filmmaker, I

guess, it's like, okay, we can do it now. But what does that mean? And are you just one of those guys sitting on the benches imagining yourself in the story? Yeah, there's an interesting contrast too, though, because sex is a very messy endeavor. You know, it's not, but this movie, like Hitchcock movies, is very symmetrical. It's very designed. You know, there's sort of like the parting doors are a metaphor.

The gowns, you know, the way that everything is, so the twinning quality of the characters, the two men, two women, a woman dressed as a man at a certain point, this idea of like deception and delusion matched with like the logic of life and the logic of power and money. So this is like really, really heavy stuff.

For Park, it's kind of interesting in the arc of his career too, because I think up until this point, even though Oldboy is this kind of legendary movie, the Vengeance trilogy is beloved by fans of Asian cinema. I still think of him as basically like pre last of the Mohicans, Michael Mann until this moment, where Michael Mann like in the 80s made a very specific kind of like

grimy, grounded, with the exception of the keep, like hard-bitten crime story. You know, like he was really great at that. If you look at Thief, if you look at Manhunter, you know, like he was amazing at Miami Vice, like he's a master of that thing, but it's kind of one thing. It feels like one thing. And this movie, I think, kind of like bumps him up into a new tier. There's a lot of interesting factoids around the release of this movie that I'd like to share with you. I feel like it's a big part of its legacy. So like we can talk about what the legacy of this movie is specifically. So as I said, it's 2016, it's basically like a conclusive, it's not quite the conclusive moment of the Korean New Wave.

I think that comes with Parasite just a few years later. We can talk about whether or not the Handmaiden was like a necessary step in getting Parasite into the American consciousness and Best Picture race in the way that it did. Not quite, but close. I think if you were a movie fan, this was probably because of its Amazon provenance, the most widely distributed Korean film. Snowpiercer was a Weinstein production,

but was primarily an American and English cast. So if you look at the history of movies, like, old boy wasn't like a box office hit. It became kind of a cult movie. In 2016 though, it was not submitted for South Korea's entry in the Academy Awards. The Age of Shadows was submitted. And I think the speculation is because this movie is so sexually provocative and explicit. Yes. And historically, Korea doesn't really, um, lean in that direction when they're submitting movies. The Age of Shadows was not nominated for Best International Feature that year.

Uh, but this movie is like, all of those filmmakers that I mentioned, all of these fascinating upendings of expectation that all those filmmakers brought to the table. The fact that it is like such a... classy affair, even though it's full of all of this devilish energy. Sure, some of it, it's just like, it uses the trappings of what we understand as, you know,

classy, very, like it just has incredible costumes. The house is one of the great movie houses in terms of like making, you know, I guess, form as function, or just using the house to represent visually what's going on in the movies. You know, it's like half English man or half Japanese traditional style. Yeah, it feels like a completely new kind of design.

Yeah, all the doors are, as you said, like, there's one scene where the two women go through like three sets of sliding doors and then the camera like swoops over, you know, they're like, they're using the architecture to tell you something about what's going on in the story. But again, that involves just a lot of old fashioned paying attention to how things look. The colors are, you know, very rich and beautiful. The score has the traditional... I do feel like it's using all of the materials of our very classic costume drama-y Oscar bait and then just completely messing with them, which is exhilarating.

Yeah, it's the finery of Pride and Prejudice and Wuthering Heights and all of those stories, but with something much more illicit underneath. The movie is in this interesting tradition. In the 60s, there was a brief period in Korea and South Korea where censorship bans were lifted, and so the movies that came out in the 60s are very different from the ones you would find in the 70s or 80s. So there's a movie that Scorsese, again, has talked about a lot, that Bong has talked about a lot,

that is clearly a huge inspiration on this movie. It's called The Housemaid, not so far afield from the American title of this movie. It's a Kim Ki-young movie. It's about a young woman who goes to work for a wealthy family and then kind of blows things up from the inside out. And it's interesting to think of this as like, almost like a capstone on that kind of a story.

Especially because most of the Korean new wave films are, almost all of them are made by men. And most of them feature male leads. You know, Song Kang-ho and Lee Byung-hun and a lot of actors being stymied is a theme you see pretty frequently. Lee Byung-hun and a lot of actors being stymied is a theme you see pretty frequently. So like to your point about the female women pursuing

and achieving independence, not really at the heart of a lot of these stories too. No, well, not really at the heart of any cinema anywhere. Very, very good story. Very, very good point. The Amazon thing is really interesting to me. Before we were doing the show together, I was writing about movies on a regular basis. And I've cited this story a couple times now,

because it feels really relevant the last 12 months, but Amazon and Netflix sort of invaded Sundance in 15, 16, and 17. And they kind of picked up the ball where a lot of movie studios were starting to drop it in terms of distributing independent movies and trying to make them into big hits and Oscar fodder and so forth. We understand this now, like having charted the progress of Cannes, for example, as like

the breeding ground now for best picture, potential best picture winners. But Amazon, which was operating under Ted Hope's guidance, longtime independent film executive, this is what they did in 2016. They picked up Manchester by the Sea, Jim Jarmusch's Patterson, Todd Salon's Weiner Dog, Whit Stillman's Love and Friendship, I know a favorite of yours, Nicholas Winding Refn's The Neon Demon, and Woody Allen's Cafe Society in addition to The Handmaiden, which was co-financed by CJ Entertainment, which is this big Korean company that, you know, funds bongs, movies, and others. But at the time, I think I was very skeptical of this

because of what ultimately happened, which was like, what happens when they lose interest in these kinds of movies? What happens to these kinds of movies? And we were finding out what happens, nobody buys them, and then they don't get made anymore. But at the time, kind of amazing. I mean, you can find all of these movies on Amazon right now. And Ted Hope and his team, like, supported long-time filmmakers

and got a bunch of movies made that never would have gotten made, which is so fascinating. You can find them. I mean, you have to really, really go searching, which is the other thing. Yeah, I mean... You have to type out every letter before you get past the Handmaid's Tale. I would... Oh, yeah, yeah.

There's a lot of movies on Amazon now. Yeah. How are you feeling about Amazon Prime Video? Well, Michael Clayton was also available on Amazon Prime Video. Streaming? Streaming, yeah. I'd like to please remind me to make a note of where you can find the movie on every one of these episodes.

This one won't expire though, I don't think, because Amazon is in the right hands. I appreciate that. Yeah. This movie also played Ken. Interesting Ken lineup. Your girl, Kiki Dunst was on the jury this year. Uh, with George Miller, a number of other venerated filmmakers and actors.

Uh, I, Daniel Blake won that year, which is relevant to me because this is the second time that a Ken Loach movie won the palm door and Asgar Farhadis, the salesman won best international feature that year, which is the second time that a Ken Loach movie won the Palme d'Or. And Asgar Farhadis, the salesman, won best international feature that year, which is the second time that he won after a separation in 2011. Both times, Park blanked. That's on them, you know? It is on them. Other movies that can that year, the salesman, as I mentioned. Quite a lineup.

American Honey. Yeah. Elle, a movie that would be a perfect double feature with The Handmaiden, The Neon Demon, Personal Shopper, Tony Airdman, Patterson, I mentioned, and Loving, the Jeff Nichols movie. So good lineup. Yeah, they do well. Can, the Cannes Film Festival.

Yeah, I'd like to go someday. I've decided to add a final section to these going forward. This was fun. This was really good. So this is a final section to these going forward. This was fun. This was really good. So this is a recommended if you like. Yes. So The Handmaiden may be a little bit more unknown to some listeners of the show. As you said, we highly encourage people to check this movie out immediately.

I just came up with these off the top of my head. It's really good. You can start with Gaslight, which is the origin of the phrase gaslighting. There's some gaslighting in this movie. Uh, the Charles Boyer classic about a woman being tricked into believing that something was happening in her marriage that isn't actually happening. Um, and then I think the Hitchcock duo of Vertigo and Rebecca is probably the closest to.

There's an absolute Mrs. Danvers just floating around in this one and a lot of illusions. Very much so. And I think Vertigo was the number one influence according to Park on this movie for him. And I think a movie that kind of changed his life. I mentioned The Housemaid, the South Korean film. Cluesos Diabolique, which was remade in the 90s

when we were kids, which is a very bad adaptation of that movie. Bound, the Wachowskis' lesbian crime drama. You can see the connections there. Wild Things. Yeah, this is good. This was it. This was a really, really good pull.

Kind of a, kind of a perfect match, right? Because if you're going to pull from an erotic thriller of our youth, it's not, it's like too classy for any of the Adrienne Lyon domestic dramas. Like we're not, we're not dealing with the suburbs, but then it is also, you know, it goes there in the way that Wild Things goes. Exactly. It's very explicit. It's not afraid of what's happening in its movie. It's not. Eyes Wide Shut, of course.

Sure, yeah. Gone Girl. Love it. Now there's not a third gal in the Gone Girl delineation. I guess Carrie Coon's sister character is the closest that we get. Right. But not quite the same formulation. And then the favorite, which I feel like fits pretty neatly into this.

And I think Jorgos Lantamos, also another, you know, European figure who's still making movies like this at a time when America has sort of ceased to do so. You have a great note here. Okay, yeah, just as I was rewatching last night, I just noted that, so we have, we've had two movies on the list, two movies in a row that like hinge pretty significantly on involuntary commitment. So what does that say about us?

What do you think it says? Just living in fear that someone's going to turn or are we living in fear of each other? What are the laws in California? We should probably educate ourselves. I honestly don't know. Do you think I could get you committed if I wanted to after seven years of podcast hosting together? I don't think so.

I mean, I'm just going to go with what Arthur teaches us. I have to assume that California is operating on the level with New York. What if I could convince your spouse that you needed to be committed? You know, he and I are close. That is true. This is just another reason to never get married. operating on the level with New York. What if I could convince your spouse that you needed to be committed? You know, he and I are close. That is true. This is just another reason to never get married. Don't give anyone that kind of legal power over you, you know?

Any closing thoughts on The Handmaiden? In addition to everything we said about how cinematically important and rich and interesting it is, it's just really, really fun. It is very fun. Really, it is quite a ride. Do you think this is the sexiest movie that will be on the list?

It might be because that is one thing that we negotiated was... There's another tough pick on number 23 that I can tease. It could be sexy, but could be not sexy. Oh no, I thought 23 was something different. Well, we made some choices. I hope maybe the audience can guess where we're going with this.

You know, it was sort of a this or that circumstance for us. OK, because then I think maybe we rearranged the order. I thought 23 was like Amanda's pick coming through. It's not? OK, that's later on. Though that, in its way way also does have sex. So, you know, the kind of sex you don't normally see on screen, not to spoil it.

They're all Amanda's pick. Yeah, they are sort of. Thank you so much. Are you trying to shift, you know, responsibility on me because you're feeling anxious? You were shaking a little bit last week. What do you mean? I don't know, I could just feel your anxiety.

And I have to say to you- Oh, about the revealing of the list? I feel great, yeah. I feel good now, I feel fine now. Okay, good, I'm glad. I feel like now that it's out- Yeah, we're on the journey together. I think I just needed to get my head around the fact

that just like everybody's gonna hate it no matter what. And that's just what it is. I have heard from people in my life that I care about who really like it. You know what's been interesting is I got feedback from a lot of people who were like, I've never seen Michael Clayton. So I I care about who really like it. You know what's been interesting is I got feedback from a lot of people who are like, I've never seen Michael Clayton.

So I'm like, okay, if that's the case, then this will do some good. Yeah, I also just have been straw polling people in our lives who know us and listeners of the show. And I'm like, what do you think number one will be? And it's not totally, I don't think this is as obvious as you and I felt that it was. The psycho fans of the show will be able to predict it very closely.

Anybody else will have no idea. Which is fun. And the list in general, I feel, will be interesting. It's great, I love it. I'm having a great time. I am too. What an interesting time this is. I'm about to take a bit of leave from the show.

Oh, yeah. Congratulations to you. Well, I'll still be working, unfortunately. I'll be traveling, but thanks to Bobby Wagner and Jack Sanders for their work on today's show. Amanda will be hosting the next couple of episodes. Yeah. Do you want to tease? Do you want to wait? Um, I mean, I think Friday might be my masterpiece.

You know? And then Monday, Bobby, Jack, and I were cooking up something very special. You know, I don't want to spoil out there, but I just want to say it's going to be a big look for both my guys, you know? Some people, I see you, Jack, through the little screen. Someone's going to be on camera. There we go.

Um, I look forward to, I'm going to Boston. Yeah. For, uh, for the rewatchables tour. Am I going to go to the town? Well, yeah, you're, cause you're screening a bunch of- The town of Boston? No, the, the screening of the film. Oh, I go to the screening.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I don't actually know which screenings we're going to yet. Cause it's at some of them, we're going to talk either before or afterwards and do like, not many pods, but just like little me, Chris and Bill are going to do some chats, maybe Rossello as well. Okay. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. I haven't been to Boston in like 15 years.

The town is the one that I would buy tickets for obviously. What about the Friends of Eddie Coyle? I hope you guys have a great time in Boston. Yeah, I'll be on a plane for that one unfortunately, so I'm gonna have to miss that too. But yeah, it should be fun and you know, good luck, have a great show. Thanks. Okay, have a great show. Thanks.

Okay, see you guys soon.