The Big Picture - The 25 for ’25 Selection Show Special

Episode Date: January 2, 2026

In a prerecorded taping from March of 2025, Sean and Amanda peel back the curtain to let you in as they finalize their 25 best movies of the 21st century list in real time, during what Amanda calls "a two-hour, weird psychological exercise that also could have been an email (and was).” Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guest: Bobby Wagner Producers: Jack Sanders and Chia Hao Tat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Sean Fennessy. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is sort of the big picture, a conversation show about 25 for 25. This is a very special edition of this show. It's really more of a meeting that we're turning into a podcast. Yes. As listeners of this show. Everyone just turned that off. No, it's an argument that we're turning into a podcast.

A thorough discussion of a project that is very important to this show that by the time you end up hearing this or seeing this, we will have already presented to the public our definitive 25 movies for the past 25 years list, 25 for 25, which is a big undertaking, a big challenge for us. I think it's gonna it's really I feel this feels like a journey into my mind like what we're doing here like I'm actually a little tense I know because of what this is what is the nature of that like what what is the anxiety I don't want to fail in my own by my own standard okay and so I this is a really like a confrontation of not just what the show is what we think about things collectively how I individual process those things, but also there's like an end result that you'll be able to look at and you'll be able to say like, this is what those guys are. Now, whatever we do is going to get picked

apart, criticized. I'm not actually worried about that. I think I'm only thinking about my own standard. So we've done so much work already and I'm so unsatisfied with where we stand in this project. Well, it's not final. It isn't. This is a healing process and erring of grievances as well as planning, which, you know, one of those things you love. So if you just activate that play in John mode, you know, just toggle that shit on. Well, I'm usually very quiet when that happens. And this is not a quiet medium. I was going to ask how much of it is actually anxiety about either dealing with me or, which I don't really think it is. It's really not that. I know that you trust me. I do. And I, and I mostly believe that you don't care about

what other people will think. So my question for you is, do you feel this level of dissatisfaction when making your own personal list every year? Because you do that. As you and I were discussing, we make a lot of lists.

We make a lot of lists on this show. We've made a lot of lists in our careers up till now. You just make lists. Like, that is just what you do on a Friday night. It's one of my pastimes. Yeah. Yeah. There's no doubt about it. It's always been. You get like 15 minutes, on a Saturday afternoon

and you're making a list and then you're sharing the list and I am once again sitting there being like I am doing the other parts of my life and Sean is just making lists so what is it about this that feels different? Well, I reserve the right

to change any of my other lists you know like my end of the year list like I won't change it actually where it stands once it's finalized but in my head I can go back and say like actually in 2014 I thought this was the best movie or actually my favorite Bob Dylan song is this thing.

This project is being recorded and we are dedicating 25 individual episodes and discussions to where we land on things. So that actually means at the exclusion, aside from this conversation, of a lot of other things. And so that there being this kind of final announcement that this is the truth of the matter. I don't know. It's like I think it's, I regret the conceit. I'm just being honest. So, a few things there. Let's start with.

So we're declaring right now, it's March 12th, 2025. Here we are. When we walk out of this room with the list, that's the list. Well, I don't know. Yeah, see? So there we go. Let's make an agreement. You think we can change it.

We can do whatever we want. First of all, we are, as you said, we are dedicating 25 individual episodes to these movies. And so they're going to be shorter. And hopefully they will give us a chance to discuss other movies that don't make the list. So, first of all, it's not the last time that we are going to talk about, you know, Brokeback Mountain or something, which I just don't like, A Brokeback Mountain is not going to make it on the list, I don't think. Well, but we got to talk about it.

We got to talk about it. But, like, I feel pretty confident that one. That's just, that's a loss, which is a real shape. Because you wanted Crash. And you said if we have to choose one movie from that year. insensibility, but that's 1995. Yeah, that's a whole other issue. Yeah.

So we will get to talk about the movies that don't make it on the list. I think a lot of the conversation will be also in this conversation of like what's getting cut that is really hard to cut. Sure. But we're not filming, we're not doing the episodes all today. You know, we're doing them over the course of the year. So what if we change our minds? What if? What if something debuts at the Cannes Film Festival that absolutely blows our hair back?

It's crossed my mind. Yeah. This very thing has crossed my mind. We don't have a 20-25 movie on here because it's only March. I agree with you that through the process of this list, everything is eligible. And it would be really exciting if we could ram something in at number eight that we just saw. And that would be representative of this time. Why can't we rescind number 24?

No. We can't do that. No. Okay. All right. That's true. chaotic. I can't. That actually, I just had like a little panic attack. And I honestly... When I get the nostril flare, it's so good. I think it's so funny, like in the process of making

this show because of the way that we talk to each other, because of what our friendship is and whatever this is, I always seem like I'm that kind of person. And I find that in the rest of my life, I don't have this energy. But whenever it comes to like, this will be the representation of how you feel and it is captured, it just feels, I don't know, a little bit more. anxiety-inducing for me. And I think that this is like maybe the biggest test I've given, at least myself personally, yet. I'm not really worried about coming to a negotiation with you. We're going to fight about stuff. And we're going to have to give each other some grace on some of these picks. But there's a unified effort despite like the performance of disgust on a regular

basis. We're on the same page. I'm not worried about it at all. I don't feel any anxiety. Okay. I'm not surprised. That's not true. Like I would say outside of these face, walls and outside of the project of list making, I am the more anxious person in life. I think in real life we're kind of flipped personality-wise. Totally. Yes, yes. But here, I'm just sort of like, I feel like I know what I like, I know what you like, I know what we're doing, I know what my taste is, I know what this should be.

You've got a whole list here of... Your confidence is a beacon, I must say. Thank you so much. You've got a whole list here of... you've titled it, these would make the list more well-rounded and less predictable. Some absolutely, some total masterpieces here, some great movies. I think every one of these would make the list more predictable because it would be other people's picks, not ours.

Yeah. So let's talk about what we've done thus far. I think that will be helpful because by the time people hear this, they will already know what all 25 movies are. They'll know the order in which they come. But they'll be able to get a sense of how we went about doing this, which has been Interesting. So I asked you some months ago to start. So you put together your first shot at a long list. And the only thing we said was it had to be from January 1st, 2000, I think U.S. release is roughly what we're working from. All the way through present day. All films are eligible. But only one film per filmmaker to avoid our usual faves. Tarantino, Fincher, Soderberg, Sophia Coppola, like all the people who are like the big heroes of the show. So, yeah, credit Gerwig, bomb back, all the people we really love.

And so inevitably, what we started putting, what you started putting together was like a couple of dead solid, perfect, we know we're doing this. And then the further down the list you go, you get like, I'm not sure if I really want this. And then the further down the list you go, you find all the stuff that you forgot about, but that has to go on the list. Yeah. And then I did a similar thing underneath that. Can I ask you, what were the circumstances in which you made your kind of freeze? Association first draft list. That's a really good question. Well, why don't you tell me what yours were? I was trying to remember. Mine was on date night with my husband at Mr. Lyons and

Palm Springs. Oh, one of my favorite steakhouses in the world. So I was definitely two drinks in. And I guess there are some Zach suggestions, but Zach provided an essential support that he has often provided to the big picture, which is saying things and then me saying, no, that's wrong. but also like being the backboard you know there's many ways in which Zach and I can relate that is one of them but it helps me hone my craft so the the process that you described of okay well here are the obvious ones and then like here's my second glass of wine and I'm going to like get a little frisky and then oh wow I forgot this and this and this and this was a bit the process and I think I sent you 35 movies okay I didn't clock that and then I just I only know that

because I went back and I put 35 notes. I didn't have a date night. That actually would have been nice and maybe I should run this by Eileen before we actually start making the episodes because we haven't made any of the episodes yet. But I think I tried to do it without looking at anything. I think I tried to just almost like, you know, air gap my laptop and just do it off the top of my head. And I was able to use the list that you had and say, okay, from there. And so, you know, we made this long list.

I won't really spoil like what was on your initial round per se. But, like, for example, like, I think the editions that I made, the first one I thought of, which is not going to make the list, almost certainly, was Uncle Boone Me, who can recall his past lives, which is a Pitchpong Verosythicals movie that was, like, was a huge phenomenon in the art house world. And whenever I think of 21st century movies, for whatever reason, that's a movie that sticks out. I haven't seen it in, like, 15 years, and we don't talk about it on the show. It's not really, like, a part of the show. it's just like a kind of a new cinema classic. And so I think what I was realizing was that I was processing a lot of other people's lists. Right.

And the point of this exercise is to represent our taste. Well, in your defense, one of the things that I sent to you, I remember I sent you this list at like 11 on a Saturday night, very normal. And then I said this is obviously missing, this is weak on international. very weak on animation, obviously. Yep. And also you can pick which Spielberg should go on the list. I know what I think you'll pick, but I didn't pick one. So those were the three things.

Right. So maybe because of that note that you sent, I thought about El Madovar, I thought about Michael Hanukah, I thought about Terence Malik, I thought about Miyazaki, I thought about Edward Yang. I thought about directors who I was like, I know a man is not thinking about these people. but when you're talking about the centurion movies,

these are important people in the discussion, whether or not there are our favorites, come to find out. So that was like my first stab at it. And I think I was just like at my laptop one evening, you know, after bedtime. And then we had this like megalist. And you added to the list after that as well,

or you had a couple of notes on top of the notes that I shared. I'm wondering if we should even share this with the public. It might actually be funny to. To share that document. Oh, I don't have it open right now. Will you send me the link? Meetings, meetings. Yeah, this is really... This is how we do meetings. This is how we do meetings. And it is a lot of people just looking at shared documents, which can be kind of dull. Are you? I just texted you. Okay, that's good because I need...

There was also a text message portion of this. We did text back and forth a little bit. And that was like a really classic Saturday afternoon. I guess you had negotiated. It was during Sundance. I remember this because you had negotiated Sundance watching time. And you were suddenly just like hitting me with long lists over texts. Yes. And I was like cooking and my in-laws were in town and like negotiating with you about almost famous. And I thought like, listen, in that moment I had it all. You know, I really thought that I hung in. But I, the text message is an important document. I don't know where maybe you can

find that exchange that we were having back then. I think the other thing that I did after you sent along your list was I started adding underneath it the other movie from the. the director. So like, let's just talk about it. Let's just, we'll talk about what you shared and then my rejoinder to that, my addition to that. First name on the list is there will be blood. Yes. Which makes all the sense in the world, except for when I started doing our cut down list, which I'll get to very shortly. I completely forgot about there will be blood. That was part of that Saturday afternoon, which was you sent me the list and then you followed up with just realized there will be blood is not on this. So this process is pretty silly. And, you know, we are

we have our faults. Immediately under There Will Be Blood, I put the Master. I guess you could make the case for a few other PTA movies. I think Phantom Thread, I think Inherent Vice, like all these movies, you know, Punch Drunk Love, all these movies have like big fandoms. For me personally, there Will Be Blood is just a big movie in my life. So I think that that was right.

You identified that. Now, the next movie on the list is No Country for Old Men, came out the same year as There Will Be Blood. Did your mind go straight to that when you and Zach were talking? Yeah, but just because, of 2007 and because look at this the third movie on the list is Michael Clayton so I just kind of did okay you started there yeah I think um because it's such a heavyweight year and also it is such like a ringer and a you and me and Chris year in terms of that was when like all the

big guns were really we're in our 20s we're going to the movies all the time and it feels like kind of the last gasp of like all the versions of Hollywood that we liked um I think no country for old men would not be my pick. And I don't know if it's going to end up being our pick. We're going to talk about it momentarily. But I immediately wrote down a serious man in Inside Lewin Davis, which are two movies that I like more than No Country for Old Men. No Country For Old Men for me is a novel that I loved. Chris put me on in the novel. I think that's when I started reading McCarthy books. And I think because I picked aside with PTA a little bit, it influences this. And it's also just not a very Coensy movie. And the

Cohen's tone is something I've always loved. loved and still love. So because of that, it feels not representative. It's not Cohen's going mainstream, but it is like more people got on the bandwagon for that one. And you have, you know, been diehard since. I was like, you weren't with me on the man who wasn't there, you know? Like, if you're not there then, why aren't you here now?

I don't feel about no country for old men, but I really understand that feeling in a fat way. You have your similar, your people as well. People jump on the bandwagon. Michael Clayton, no-brainer, we'll get there. The Dark Night. I like that you wrote this down. I was a little surprised.

I think the only person who likes is a little ifier on Oppenheimer and not on Oppenheimer, on Interstellar and Inception. Then I am is you. So we're a little, no one is a tricky one for us. So the Dark Night, though, and here is where we go magazine, brainless brain. I don't know. You guys hit play on this podcast. So, like, buckle up. Maybe you have some context for what we did in our current.

years before we did this. That's a great point. If you're just joining the big picture, for some reason, listening to this two-hour weird psychological exercise that also could have been an email, and was before we turned it into content. Sean and I are both recovering magazine journalists. Sean worked at, I don't know, vibe, GQ, what else am I forgetting? Obviously Grantland. Yeah, a number of other places, yeah. Many places that publish many lists over the years. It was in New York Magazine for a very long time. So shout out, Vulture. I love you forever.

So we are trained in making these packages with lists and supporting editorial pieces and investigations and charts and big essays and trying to provoke people into paying attention to what we think. That is what it was. And I think that there is like a sincere part of list making and packaging and then there is a cynical part of it. And so I've always tried to make this show, personally, that same combination that I pursued in my work as a magazine editor. And I think you're right that The Dark Night is both for me. It is actually the Nolan movie that gets me the most excited. And it is also the populist choice that is representative of an entire wave of movies from this century.

So even though I wrote Oppenheimer, Prestige, and Interstellar underneath it, And I think many people who are younger than us would choose Interstellar. That's cool. But for us, that's not the movie. That's, and you guys, and I know I normally say this in a disrespectful way. And, but, you know, this is like movie mom supporting you in your dreams, make your own list. You know, you guys can go do it. I hope you will.

Maybe we can encourage that as part of this process. As long as you do it with, you know, with kindness, go for it. The thing about Dark Night, in addition to it, ticking both the Nolan box, and the superhero box I think it's the best action movie of all of the movies that you just named and it is serving action like it is taking the post

we have a couple action movies on this list but it has all three of those also one of the great performances of the 21st century in Heath Ledger's Joker so you've got four there's a number of reasons why it works so well we'll talk about it when we do the episode I think this is I think we're going to end up

with the Dark Knight I would be surprised if we don't I have a lot of affection for it I was on a rewatchable early on in the run about that movie and was doing a lot of nitpicking in that episode

and I've heard over the years like you fuck you guys fuck this one up because maybe the show had not totally evolved into like we love everything about this except for whatever bad politics or left over from this movie

but it's always been a movie that has like kind of made my hair stand up so I would push for it regardless so I was happy to see that you put it there then Lady Bird and Little Women obviously So Lady Bird is what I put on.

Yes, Lady Bird is at the top. I would go Lady Bird, too. I think I put Little Women on just to have the discussion. We can have the discussion very briefly now if you'd like. Little Women is one of the most under-celebrated movies of the last 10 years, including by me. And, you know. Once again, you're setting it down. I know.

I feel bad. And I, why am I doing that? I guess because Lady Bird is both, you know, it is the debut feature. It is original written and directed by Greta Gerwig. Little Women is an adaptation. I think it's like a genius adaptation and it is in conversation with like both that novel, all of the movies that have been made before it, just the whole idea of, you know, women in society. So there's, it's, it's doing a lot and doing it really artfully. But I think that I guess I'm just prizing the original.

which is maybe lame, but that's where I am. I would go Lady Bird 100 times out of 100. I think that every generation gets a great coming-of-age movie. I think this is that generation's great coming-of-age movie. I wouldn't argue for Little Women or Barbie, and I don't think I'll be arguing for The Chronicles of Nardi. I didn't even try for Barbie. But let's stop doing that.

Right now, let's just say, let's just stop doing that thing where you've just written Greta Gerwig's entire career off. I haven't, I'm not writing her career. I know, but like the way you were just sort of like, I don't know, it comes for us all. As you said, school is expensive. I did. I know. I brought this up recently, which was in March for those of you listening.

And I, listen, Barbie into Chronicles of Narnia. And I loved Barbie. I thought that, I mean, she's a genius. I want to be her when I grow up and I never will be. But I was like more ladybirds. Yeah, it's not what you would have done. Yeah. Yes, yes.

It's not what you would have done. The market doesn't want more ladybirds, though. So, and again, school is expensive. Look, Nolan made three Batman movies and then went on and did, you know, Dunkirk Tenet, Oppenheimer, The Odyssey. Yeah, should Dunkirk have been on that list? I mean, we're not going to pick Dunkirk over the Dark Night. It's a movie that I have a great admiration for, but I don't have a deep emotional relationship to. I think if CR were here, it probably would have been his Nolan pick. But CR is probably going to end up doing his own version of this on his show for TV.

Oh, he is? Oh, that's been. I would have assumed. I think we're all across. The Ring are doing a lot of this stuff. Do you think that we should let Chris record an episode to also come out around now, which is just like his response? I do not.

I think that would be funny. I mean, he's welcome to record it where it will be released. I don't know. Okay. Chris Ryan is the only person in the universe who I would take feedback from on this. But the thing is, it's not in his nature to be like, here's what you got wrong. That's why he's such a good friend. I know.

Well, that's, but that's. And obviously a critical component of this show. So one thing I think we're missing content-wise is just like Chris Ryan just like Chris Ryan's take on stuff that is like not Chris Ryan Corp. You know, he sees the world in a unique way. So whether it's Chris Ryan cooking something or Chris Ryan going through this list and being like, here's my opinion about it. He hasn't seen little women because it's directed by a woman. So like we can't.

He's actually just not well suited to a lot of these questions. Moonlight was the next movie you had on the list. Interestingly is not on the cut down list. right now. Now, I know why you went to it. Best Picture winner, huge transitional movie about the state of Hollywood, Barry Jenkins, 824, a movie we both love. Yeah, beautiful movie. But when confronted with the actual 25, I couldn't find a place for it. So we, again, we can talk through it. We did a, I guess it was the best picture movie draft. Yeah. Where this came up again, where it's like, I do think because we talk about Moonlight so

much as like a historical significance that we tend to underappreciate it as a as a film. Very possible. I think it might just be a kind of a negative recency bias because Barry is coming off of Mufasa instead of a triumph. And so it doesn't feel necessarily like the right time to celebrate it or something like that. Nevertheless, Moonlight, I think that's a reasonable add to the long list. And then In Glorious Bastards, which is certainly the Quentin movie that you and I agree on the most. I think he's got a couple of like... Do we disagree on any Quentin movie?

No, but I would imagine that like I probably have more affection for Kill Bill Volume 1 than you do. I really like Kill Bill. I'm not taking anything away from you by saying that. I think I think I'm just I think In Glorious Bastards is an intersection

of a lot of things that we both like. Whereas like Kill Bill, you know, you're not the world's biggest Hong Kong and Japanese samurai and Kung Fu fan. That is true. You know?

So it doesn't mean that it's not very accessible in Kielbelville. I'm not super accessible. But the thing is, is I don't, are we sure it's not once upon a time in Hollywood?

We can talk about it. Okay. We can talk about it. That was the first thing that came to mind and I put it right underneath you. Let's keep going. Get out.

Don't even try. I mean, you can try. You can say it. You've written here. I don't think that it should be no. I think Get Out is the most important film. I think there is a decent chance because Jordan Peele reveres

John Carpenter so much that Jordan ends up having a kind of carpenter-esque career where Get Out is Halloween and Nope is the thing and a lot of time is going to go by and people are going to be like ah, nope, we didn't really recognize or appreciate what that movie was in its time. I could be wrong about that. And what I'm trying to avoid is like that level of thinking that I sometimes default to to get in the in the my asthma of this stuff. Okay. So get out, I think is the right choice. Thank you. Good.

Lost in Translation is what you shared, which I thought was fascinating because I did what I think you wanted to do. Yeah, you did. Which I think is right. Well, it is right because I think I spent, but especially on the first draft, I was trying to write down what like quote unquote should be on our list. And you wrote down Lost in Translation. And I wrote down Lost in Translation, which obviously got her nominated for all the Oscars.

She won an Oscar. breakthrough, even though Virgin Suicides is also eligible and is also excellent. Is it, did we figure that out? It is. It debuted in 2000. Okay. It was 99, like a can or something? Yes. Okay. When this airs, we will already have done the 2000 movie draft with the... The crew, the big crew. And if Rob Mahoney takes Virgin Suicides for me, I just... Mark that down, Bob. I just... Honestly, like, then Rob had a good podcasting run and it's over now,

because I ended it. But no, Marie Antoinette is my passion. To me, that's the good magazine editor pick as well. That's what I like about it. Lost in Translation is a great movie. I love that movie. I probably, I'm almost, I almost certainly love it more than Marie Antoinette. Right.

But I see you and I acknowledge you and I recognize. And you also, you like, you get why I'm into Marie Antoinette, right? Like, it is what she's doing at a maximalist, like very cool. Absolutely. And it is like kind of as close as she ever got to a blank check movie and going for a few things that you wouldn't be able to normally get away with, which I really admire, as you know. A few quick ones. Moneyball, which is a patron saint of this podcast, this list no matter what happens, we'll have Moneyball on it. We are, of course, the ringer, sports, ideas about sports, Brad Pitt. These are a lot of things, you know, Spike Jones, cucking Brad Pitt. You know, like, these are things that we're interested in Aaron Sorkin. That's the team shaping up this year. Yes. So that's a no-brainer to me.

Francis Ha. That's a no-brainer for you and me. But except for... It's really tough, though, because we already have Lady Bird. And this is... It's not solo Bomback. It is Greta and Noah Bombach. Yeah.

Now, Francis Ha, I agree. Again, this is very similar to Inglorious Bastards. or sort of like they made a movie and they put like our DNA in it. Yeah. And our hearts. 100%. So I don't want to outthink myself on this. But, you know, the squid and the whale is like a very important movie to me.

If we did, if we did a different bomb back, it would need to be a marriage story. I was going to, well, that would have been my next suggestion. Yeah. I think he just writes very well about a lot of feelings that we have. Over-educated white 40-somethings? We are bomb-back disciples. Right. You know?

Like we are. We were of an impressional age when we saw kicking and screaming. And just it goes from there, you know? I'm very loyal to him. And so it's not like doing Francis Haas is disloyal to him. But it's almost like you get 1.5 Gerwig and half of a bombback on your list then. You know what I'm saying? I do.

But there's something that like that Francis Haa, locks in him that I think you then also can see in marriage story that is like very magical and emotional so I I don't I don't think 1.5 Gerwig point five bombback is totally fair okay so we'll do Greenberg then okay good it's settled um okay Francis Ha I'll roll with it the social network you know the scene in Greenberg when they're driving to the abortion or they're driving home I can't and she's like can we go to in and out and he's like of course It's your day. That is good.

That's pretty similar to your life. It really is. That's kind of how it is for you. We were just talking about marital negotiations and travel just yesterday. It's all a negotiation. Okay. Let's talk about David Fincher. Here's a conundrum.

The social network may be the best movie of the 2010s. Zodiac might be the best David Fincher movie, but it isn't even the best movie of 2007. This is the pickle of trying to do this. I have said many times Zodiac's my favorite Fincher but the social network is very representative of a lot about the show of the world that we live in right now

of a sort of writing and directing style that we really like it's a movie that in theory will be right near the absolute tippy top of the list and many listeners will know and we don't care I just want to say it again Zodiac is this like the hardest cut on the whole list because of the rule that I created and imposing on myself for no good reason other than to avoid putting two Fincher movies or five Fincher movies on the list.

You say what? Did you get that out of your system? I did. You got it out? Can you tell I've been grinding on it? That was just like we needed to put you back in the void for that. I'm glad we gave you your piece. The answer is the social network.

Okay. But you won't even acknowledge the- No, I love Zodiac. But listen, when we did the two-part David Fincher ranking, I was outvoted because it was you and Chris over me. And somehow we put Zodiac at number one and the social network number two. Listen, it's like essential to our project is we just really, really, really love that movie. And it is like our generation citizen game.

And I do think it's one of those things where we think it's so obvious that we're then like trying to get frisky and out overthinking. And you're like, okay, but really, actually, it's Zodiac. And sure, you love Zodiac. But I think the answer is the social network. Okay. I think the social network is increasingly a little bit lost on younger listeners of the show. Okay. Because it was, and whether or not, and that doesn't matter for our purposes.

Pull up a chair, young friends. Whether or not some of these movies are, you had to be there movies, is kind of interesting to me as a result of this process. But we can keep going through it. Let's just say we'll hold space for social network. And then Martin Scorsese, and you wrote down the wolf. of Wall Street. They did. Which I believe is correct.

Yeah. I have immaculate taste. No. But you have good taste, very interesting taste for sure. I think, and you know how to make a list with me, which I appreciate. Scorsese, how many people would really say this is his best movie of the century? Do you think that would be the most common response? Bobby's nodding.

You think so, Bob? I think among people who are panicked. attention. Do I think it's his most widely seen? No, it's the departed. Like, that's great. Departed would not be my pick. Yeah. I know you ride for silence and... I will, silence will have its time on this show. That's how I feel about silence. It will have its time on this show. Also, I learned something that I did not know, which is that silence had been previously adapted by a Japanese filmmaker. I can't recall the filmmaker's name, but I was just reading about this the other day. And there's another version of that story. And I have to go seek that

out and go watch it. Sorry to interrupt you. It's okay. I admire silence. And it is like important for men to quite literally not say very much and grapple with their faith and ambition and all of that stuff every once in a while. So I give you that space every day. I give Martin Scorsese that space. Adam Driver and Andrew Garfield together as tortured priests. I was about to say I do think that the experience of making silence, set forward a chain reaction that gave us to Andrew Garfield we have today. And again, it's March 2025, so I don't know what he's been up to the last nine months. I believe in him and that he can continue just the absolutely unrivaled streak that he's on. But I also take no responsibility for any poor choices. Same. But so I do thank

silence for that. I've also written down the Irishman. The Irishman. The Irishman. Irishman Silence the Departed, I think, are the ones that came to mind. And you didn't write, Killers the Flower Moon, down? It would, I think it's ultimately a superior movie to the departed, but a less important movie than the departed in Scorsese's story. The departed, though, is just rip-roaring, entertaining. And so if you're looking for a fusion of the big idea, the craft, and the entertainment, the Wolf of Wall Street is the answer. It is the one that does all of those things. It's representative of this big idea of American greed.

and a thrilling Leo and Leonardo DiCaprio performance at the center of it, one of his best. And just a really, really, just a fun movie. So got no quibbles, just worth discussing because it's Scorsese. Next was Parasite on your list. And we just had this conversation, actually, about Mickey 17. And we did land on Parasite as our number one Bong Joon home movie. So, you know, memories of murder popped to mind.

That did come in at number two on our list. Great film. We do like to, you know, it's tough. The cool move would be memories of murder. Well, it's tough when the good movie actually does one best picture, you know? And we never know what to do about it. Exactly. And so we don't really know what to do with it.

And so I think our instinct is to overthink it because it was celebrated. Yeah. I have been, I thought about this with the moonlight situation too. And I've just been struggling with this as a person in middle age, which is that you just have this dawning realization that you are the mainstream target for consensus ideas and that you are the most powerful consumer and I mean a Nora one best picture that was your favorite movie of the year that is true how many times can you say that that was the case you can also say it about parasite so you're in the target as well and we can pat ourselves in the back and be like

oh well the academy is so international and just evolved so dramatically they made so many changes But it's like, also, you're at that age where you're not going against the grain as much anymore and you don't want to go against the grain as much anymore. You want your taste to be like at the absolute pinnacle of their industries or whatever because that communicates some kind of like generational power, power shift. I'm really, I'm so obsessed with this idea.

And so this exercise, I think, is kind of a, it's sort of like a resonance of that idea. The parasite thing, though, is just like, I rewatch some of it to prepare for that bong episode and I was like, this is it. You know, this is like, Thriller, satire at its absolute best. So I won't argue any further on that one.

Something's got to give. Is this the only choice? Of course there would be a Nancy Myers movie on the list. Is this the only choice? I, for a second, yes, it is the only choice. Because I didn't write down the intern or it's complicated. I think it's complicated is very flawed. I think the intern is very good.

I do like the intern. I like them both. I thought about it's complicated, but it was immediately like, no, no, no, it is flawed. It, like, has great charm and it has Merrill Streep, but the answer to me between those two, which are women of a certain age wearing turtlenecks and rediscovering romance late in life. Yeah, yeah. They're twinned. Yes, and something's got to give is, like, clearly superior. And then the intern is kind of her answer to baby boom and, and pretty fascinating.

And I do like Anne Hathaway, but it does also just have like Renee Rousseau as the masseuse for a while, you know, falling in love with Robert De Niro. Completely forgot about that. Which is, like, which is lovely, but, you know, like, it's cool. A little baggy or side story. Exactly. And something's got to give is, like, just the height of Nancy Meyer's powers. And also, I think that, I mean, the most influential and kind of the culturally has kind of percolated the, you know, through society the most. I'm totally fine with that.

I love something so I give. I think that's probably my favorite Nancy Myers movie. I mean, it's the best one. So the next pick you made is the handmaiden, which I think I can't figure out if the handmaiden is the cool person pick or not the cool person pick or the consensus obvious pick. I think this is the Park Chan Wook movie and my mind immediately went to Old Boy because Old Boy was this kind of like banging introduction for many American moviegoers

into the Park Chan Wook experience The Handmaiden was made at this very early stage of streamers funding movies and so Amazon brought it to America it's a beautiful, very sexy, dark thriller. It's a movie that I love, so I'm not quibbling with it. I'm trying to figure out, like, what would be the more interesting choice?

Would it be this movie, which is more recent, or would it be Old Boy, which was extremely influential? Right. And to your point about the Dark Night and Action movies, you know, this is an action thriller, but it's got... You could make the case the most memorable fight scene in the movies in the 2000s, in the hallway. Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I just want to, I just want to float that. It was, I wrote down the handmaiden because of all the sex, obviously. And there are not a lot of, although the Wolf of Wall Street has plenty of that stuff too.

Sure, but like in a, in a different way. Yes. Easily parked sexiest. Yeah, I know why I'm voting for the handmaiden, but, but that doesn't have to be the reason. It's pretty twisted, you know, not like your traditional, you know, Adrienne line, you know, romantic thriller. That's true. Romantic thrillers, like, I forgot it. I don't really think there's a lot of romance

Erotic thriller. Thank you. Yeah, you know, you're right. Erotic thriller. Okay, I am generally good with the handmaiden. I'm open to old boy. I haven't seen a handmaid and I think since it came out. Okay. That's something I got to do. Okay. Is revisit that. Yeah. We're going to end up making that choice. And then maybe that's one where I like blink. See, that's something

they could change as we go through the list. We could be going through the list. There could be a director who has a one B and I blink at the last minute. And I'm like, it's really got to be this. That's in play. I'm It's going to be a case-by-case basis I'm okay with that being an option broadly And then whether I accept the change

Will depend on the movie itself We are aligned on before sunset Yeah I just think that's our That's one of our movies You were saying to me That at some point That if you could have nudged me

Towards Boyhood On this list That that might be Where you would go on your own I think boyhood exists in the same realm as the way you were describing Moonlight. And I know that you're not a huge, like a huge Boyhood fan. But I think it is now because it was like locked in an Oscar race and there was so much press around how it was made that what the movie actually is is like a little misunderstood or misremembered. Again, when I talk about this movie, I'm always like, God, this movie feels just like really close to my life.

And the same thing with the Squid and the Whale where like any movie that I'm, they kind of can like scrape the interior of my mind. to have a big emotional relationship to. But I do recognize that like it does not work for everyone that actually the conceit itself or like the actor who is that, you know, Eleanor Coltrane, like some people just don't think he's like that strong as a performer. And so that holds a movie back in some ways. I acknowledge all those criticisms. I think the, I think the Wolf of Wall Street case is everybody wants them because that's the most fun movie. I do love everybody wants them. And the older my sons grow, the more I'm just like, oh, wow, I have...

You're gonna be in one of those houses. I had the supporting cast of everybody wants some, just growing up. It's a very good point. Which is, like, thrilling to me. You know how to hang with the boys, yeah. Well, no, I just... I'm like, there is something like very, you know, good-natured and goofy about that movie for all of their, you know, dultiness. Yeah, it's poignant, but not saccharin.

and fun and funny but not stupid. Yes. It feels a bit more like a guy telling you an anecdote than it does a movie. It's a little bit like, let me tell you about this great weekend I had 10 years ago. But the vibes are so good and the performances are so good. Obviously, that's when we got on the Glenn Powell train. But before sunset, you know, we just did a rewatchable's about it like a month ago. It's just a tremendously important.

and one of the most romantic movies ever. And also is a sequel. It is a sequel. Is it the only sequel? Let's see. I guess the Dark Night is technically a sequel. No. We have some other...

We do. Yeah. I see some. Yeah. A few sequels, which is actually quite a few, which is interesting to talk through. Okay, let's keep moving. Quaron. Now, you wrote Children of Men.

Did you write that with me in mind? No, I think it just... just, I was literally thinking through, okay, I was thinking a little bit genre and a little bit, like, ticking off through directors. And I was like, Quaron, and that is what spoke to me. I think it's a movie that we've never, like, we've never done an episode about, but that is referenced all the time on this show. Yes. So that was another reason? Yeah.

I think there is a contingent of people who have said that it is the perfect movie of, the century, you know, that it is like that collision of great script with a great idea, with the right actors and this, you know, relatively innovative style, very Spielbergian in some ways. I don't think it would be my choice. Say more. I think I too Mama Tambien probably says more about what's great about him as a filmmaker, which is that when he is like very connected to character,

his movies work better for me. And the spectacle movies are very cool and I appreciate them. I like gravity quite a bit. Right. But that's a very kind of a weak script. You know, it's a very stand-in script. And Children of Men feels very schematic relative to a lot of post-apocalyptic movies. It feels like it's like riffing.

Whereas Itumama Atombia just feels like it is happening in front of you. And I think he has. the ability to do that. I think he's weirdly done a good job of that in like in a Harry Potter movie, which is also eligible. But yeah, we didn't put that down. We didn't. You wouldn't put prisoner of Ascaband on the list. Many people would consider

it. And once again, I encourage them all to open letterbox accounts or Google Docs accounts and make their own lists. Would you put Roma on the list? You know, I have not revisited Roma since

2018. And And I, that was an unforgettable viewing experience for me. And I did get to see it, unlike most people, in like a beautiful Netflix theater, you know, with the sound and everything. And I was just completely shredded by it. I wonder how it would play now at home. Then does that matter? I don't know. I own it on Blu-ray, if you'd like to borrow it.

Oh, okay. It's in the criterion collection. Oh, it is. Good for them. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Netflix, to their credit, licenses, their movies.

to the Criterion Collection. We've recently learned that Apple will not be doing that, and it does not seem as though Amazon has much interest in doing it anymore either. For example, Killers of the Flower Moon will not be getting a 4K release anytime soon in America, which is just... But it will internationally? It's already been released in Italy. Do you own that?

I don't. I was waiting because I assumed that Criterion was swoop in. Do you want me to buy it for you when I'm in Italy? I do. I think it's already out of print, but I would take it. A lot of Americans were like, they'll never put this out, so they bought it right away. And I held out, you know who owns it? Tracy Lutz.

Okay. I, my heart says Itumamaatambian. And that also raises the sex quotient. Sure. And we do like that. We do. I'm open to that. Okay.

We'll come back to it. One car, why? Speaking of romance. You put in the mood for love. Yeah. I know, I know, I know. I'm not going to fight. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

All right. Okay. 2046 is eligible. I've heard. I've read your tweets. It's cool. It's interesting. I've read your tweets.

I think in the mood for love is no-brainer I think that will probably be certainly in the top ten. You wrote the act of killing. I think at this point... I've got a bad taste in my mouth having just seen Joshua Oppenheim's The End which is not, I didn't like very much.

Once again, let's set the scene. This is a list that I made on date night in Palm Springs with a cocktail. Did I have a steak? I probably did. Mr. Lyme, if you don't get a steak. No, I was just trying to think

of, like, where I was in, like, my life journey at this, and I, yeah, I, I had a stake. I just thought to myself documentary, and then that was, I was like, that's a type of film. And then that's the first one I wrote down. I think that's the one that you find on a lot of these lists. Yeah. Okay, well, you've written some others. Some of them I like. And some of them, respectfully, are television shows.

Right. So I wrote down OJ Made in America and The Last Dance. Yeah. Incredible. Incredible, and one of them did win an Oscar? OJ Made in America won the best documentary. So I guess that that, it means that it's eligible. Maybe because I am thanked in the credits of OJ. Made in America, we should not include it.

I'd just like to send my love to Ezra Edelman, whose Prince movie is not allowed to be released. Which is terrible. And I still haven't seen it, and I would like to. It's March right now. They're not going to work it out. I think it's officially, I think I just like doing interviews about how it's never coming out. I mean, that's true, but that's terrible. You never know.

You never know. I love Sarah Polly's stories we tell. I love Amy. I do as well. I do as well. I do as well. I put all the beauty in the bloodshed. Incredible movie.

Which was one of my, I think it was in my top five of the year came out. And I put Errol Morris as the fog of war. This is a really good one. Now, where we're out on the cut down list, which we're not even talking about yet, I didn't have room for a doc. Yeah. Which is testimony to this.

Right. The fog of war, though, you know. It's essential, yeah. That's a big one. Yeah. That's a big one. That's Robert McNamara being confronted by Errol Morris and kind of like illuminating the U.S. Department of Defense's experiences and strategy over a 40-year period, particularly the Vietnam War.

I just want to pull red circle next to that one. We can circle several of them, except for the last dance, which I loved so much. And it really got us through the pandemic. It's great. It's a TV show. It's a TV show. It's a TV show. It's a cool.

It's a TV miniseries. The iPad. When it's about to, it's really weird. I mean, he innovated a whole new way of making, I mean, so many documentaries use the iPad technique. I'm just like, hey, look at this thing that happened to you 12 years ago. Comedy, you wrote Superbad. I did. I was fully on board with this.

Mm-hmm. I wrote Anchorman, The Legend of, Ron Burgundy underneath it as the goofy apotovian era of comedy

Right I've pivoted to Anchorman Yeah That's fine With me Okay So we don't even

Need to debate that I I think that I put Superbad down Because I have a very I have a clear memory Of seeing Superbad

In theaters Packed House Everyone screaming and crying and laughing And also I was with my then boyfriend, who was just very high.

And I was just, like, trying to navigate him through, like, a, um, a loud experience. Okay. So, you know, it was, like, my own super bad within a super bad. But Anchorman is extremely funny. I would also accept Step Brothers, but. I would as well. Yeah. But Step Brothers feels like the cool pick.

And Anchorman feels like the true pick. Hmm. I don't, the thing, honestly, the thing I like about Anchorman is that there's, like, a real female character in that movie. There's, like, not a lot of. Good female characters in a lot of these movies. That's very true. I guess Emma Stone kind of sort of, but she's basically a sketch in Superbad.

She's great. She's wonderful. Christine Applegate actually has a lot to do and is like essential to Anchorman. Okay. Whiplash? Now you wrote Whiplash. Yeah, because this is a group project. Okay.

You like Whiplash? Yeah, sure does. You know? I don't know. Listen. I know. I do really like it. And it is also, I find it, no, no, it's an incredible movie.

What it's about is a little annoying to me and just like a all you meant need to calm down sort of way, you know? But no, it's a great film. Got it. La La La Land? I, as you know, love La La Land. It's good. Babylon? I love you guys.

And it is really good, but no. Bob, Babylon? I don't think Babylon really falls into this list. You want to do First Man? I mean, First Man would be the real cool guy, but that would be the like, you know, from 43 feet, bang. You, like, men need to get your shit together. What do you mean? What are you talking about?

Sometimes you have to go to space. You're just a bunch of boys. It's like at least a literal quote in that one, you know? I think it's very self-aware. No, it's good. It's good. And that last scene of them, it's just really. How far apart we really are, you know?

I don't think we really want the Damien Chiselle movie where he's like, I got it all figured out, guys, I'm really content. Yeah. You know? I think we want the messiness. Completely agree. That's why the evil can evil movie is a great idea. Yeah.

Another tortured soul. I don't think Whiplash is going to make the long, the short list, which is really hard for me. Well, if you'd like to know what Whiplash means to me, there is a rewatchables. It's probably my most vulnerable rewatchables. Right, because you did it with Bill. So it is like, speaking of psychological experiments, and speaking of, it's like the content is good, but I have some notes about the emotions between the TV. It's fine.

You've worked it out. You've got to make your life your art and your art your life sometimes. You're wonderful men. Mad Max Fury Road. Yeah. I don't really think there's much of a debate here. No. Okay.

I'm just sort of like if Stephen Soderberg says it's the best action movie ever made, then we, On this podcast, we respect Steven Soderberg, at least in that we honor his opinions about other movies. Well, I want to come back to it in a minute. So, Tar comes next. Yeah. We're one day away from recording a Kate Blanchett Hall of Fame episode. I haven't revisited Tar yet. I might watch it tonight.

But it feels like it's going to be really high on our list. Oh, yeah. Well, we're doing a Hall of Fame, right? No, no, I mean, on this list. Like on 25 for 25. Well, we both wanted to be really high on this list, but on the list that you have put together, it's not on it right now.

So I don't know. I'm, I'm, there are two movies from 2022 that are definitely the most exhilarating movie-going experiences I've had in the last five years, and neither is currently on the short list. We don't have anything after 2019 on the list right now.

That's correct. So. Let's keep going. Okay. Mission Impossible Fallout. Another action movie. Yes. Another sequel.

Yes. Are we being redundant with Mad Max Fury Road and the Dark Night by including Mission Impossible Fallout and perhaps even Top Gun Maverick, which you have on the list next? This is a lot of sameness. They're not the same movies, but the energy and the experiences are kind of the same. Well... I hear you. But then I think we have to jettison Mad Max Ferry Road. Well, we can't not have...

Okay, I mean, we can pick between the Tom Cruise movies. I think we will have to. I know that we have to do that. But I think if you just, if you want to, like, get rid of action movies... I don't want to get rid of action movies. I think it re-raises the question of the Nolan choice. Well, I'm not putting Oppenheimer on this. Why? What's wrong with Oppenheimer?

The third hour is what's wrong with Oppenhower. Robert Daddy Jr. is what's wrong with Oppenheimer. Many people disagree. Okay. Myself included. Yeah, and the Academy. So how do you feel? How do you feel about a Nora's win? You know, like sometimes the best movie wins. What can I say?

I don't, you know, this is just what's happening. You're 40. Deal with it. Top Gun Maverick, I don't think he's going to make the cut. I just... I'm not saying it's not important to you and your family. And also to this show and to cinema. It is. In 2020, it's like, do you remember, like, we were down bad? We were down so bad as a global community.

And then Tom Cruise was, like, frankly, stubborn. And I disagreed with him about how long he made us wait to see that film. And then we went to see it. And it was my first movie back in theaters after having Max. It was like the, you know, the world opened up to me and to everyone else. And that shit is beautiful. And do I tell my son the story of Top Gun every single night before he goes to bed at his request? Yes, I do.

And when he says that, he means Top Gun Maverick. The first line is there once was a pilot named Maverick. Sometimes I substitute in other people And he's like, no, Maverick. So, yes, it is of outsize importance to me. But in terms of blockbusters, in terms of people going to the movies, like deeply, deeply important. And it works.

Like it just, it is like a blackbuster machine, but it works. And a three-year-old can understand what's going on. And, you know, his grandfather can sit with him and also be like, ooh, you know, when Tom Cruise tells the air boss, who is John Hammoth. So it's a beautiful movie. Let me pitch a theory at you. Yeah. It's the Force Awakens for people who are addicted to movie stars.

Okay. I mean, you don't need to say it like that. Well, I'm just, just think about it. Just think about it. It's giving you a lot of what feels comfortable, what feels good, what feels familiar, gussied up a little bit, some new technology. They flew all of those plans. Uh-huh. You know, I'm just putting that up there.

Absolutely, definitely. It's just a much better movie, even if you don't come into it with the context, than the Force Awakens. Like, it's just much more entertaining. And it's much more well-crafted, especially, like, how the script actually translates to the screen. I'm not saying it is equal to the Force Awakens.

In terms of the experience that it's giving you, though, there's no invention. It's a, it's a, press the pleasure button. But do you remember when he throws the rulebook in the trash, though? Yeah. You know, that is part of the story. Every night, that's part of the story. I say, and then he throws the rulebook in the trash, and everyone goes, but it's okay

because he knows the rules. That is part of the story of Top Gun. It ends before they have to do any death-defying, like, you know, bombing. I'm a huge fan of Top Gun Maver. That's fine. I'm not saying I'm not. I understand that it's probably not going to go on. But I think that you are being a little snooty.

I am. And at a time where I don't, I was just very kind about many of your films. And I was like, you were really rude about silence. You do. No, I was not. You said this is what men need to do. I am and I made space for it. I held space.

And then I said, thank you for everything silence did for Andrew Garfield. I have given you a lot of your choices without. These were all your choices. We're going through your, we haven't even gotten to my picks yet. Because sometimes I do this. the work at a group project. Okay? So this is a discussion. Moving on, Maverick is teetering on the edge, just for the record. Yeah, we all know. The Royal Tenen Bounds. Mm-hmm. Which I think now has to go in because Hackman passed away. Yeah. But I put it on the list before.

You did. And it would have been my choice as well. Right, because Rushmore is not eligible. Correct. Rushmore is pre-2000. Rushmore, my favorite, West Anderson. It would have been hard for me to convince you to do Rushmore anyway. We probably would have netted it to Tenen Bounds regardless. I believe on our Anderson rankings that I did win with Tenant Bounds. It was a standout. You don't win. This is not a competition.

This is a collaboration. I persuaded you to put Tenant Bounds at number one. So we're going to go Royal Tenant Bowns. Astrood City, Grand Budapest Hotel, my beloved Boonrise Kingdom. Yeah. I love I love dogs That's your fave

No but fantastic Mr. Fox Is also really big in my house Another 2007 Entrant lots of 2007 movies here No I mean Tenen Bounds is essential Okay

I'm not going to argue I think it's pretty much the choice Melancholia This gets you Kiki Yeah Again Right Do we need two Kikis

Interesting question Melancholia happens to be a big favorite of mine as well, I can't, there can't be very many Lars van truer movies you have time for. I'm not saying that judgmentally. Like, it's really not your speed. No. But this one is so my speed that it makes up for the rest. I mean, this is just like an incredible movie about depression, hating other people, and the end of the world. That is kind of what every Lars von Trier movie is about. Yeah, but this one is also stars Kirsten Dunst at like a perfect wedding. Now that's...

And as Inner Scarsguard. Yeah, that's what drags it over the line for you, I believe. You know. The other eligible Vontrear movies, just for the record, would be Dancer in the Dark, Dogville, Manderlay, the crazy sequel to Dogville starring a different actress. Antichrist, which would be just straight up hilarious

if we put Antichrist on the list. Nymphomaniac, parts one and two. Right. And the house that Jack built, which is about a serial killer played by Matt Dillon. Okay. Lars Vuntry, extremely controversial figure. Some might say problematic.

Mm-hmm. Definitely a genius-level film director. I think it's a good choice. I'm surprised by how few European filmmakers are going to end up on this list, which we will get to momentarily. Right. This would be at least a push in that direction, you know, given that, you know, Bunchier's Danish. We will continue to remind everyone that we are. two children raised on Hollywood.

Yeah, but I think we'll do a pretty good job ultimately with Asian cinema on this list and not so good with the European, which is kind of fascinating. Right. Anyway, all right. You mentioned that there's no way that broke back mountain is going to end up on the list. Yeah. But you wrote down Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon. Right.

Speaking of Asian cinema, Asian American cinema, I don't think I could find a spot for Crouching Tiger when I did my cut down list. Yeah. But maybe we should. Is it weird to not have Ang Lee here? Two-time Best Director winner? I do think that my thought process was Angley, what Angling movies should go on. Sense and Sensibility is not eligible.

And then I went straight to Crouching Tiger. Which was like a hugely influential, a huge phenomenon. Huge. Really introduced like Asian cinema to, like a huge I would say to like Art House Oscar crowd I would say like that

kind of elegant Woosha when you're paying style of filmmaking coming on the heels of the Matrix and it being like kind of the version of it

they would play at the Angelica you know and Angley synthesizing a lot of those 50s, 60s and 70s movies and then also the like action hero Hong Kong stuff of the 90s

So I really like it as a pick And I really like this movie This movie is definitely a big deal to me When I was just a college student Getting interested in the Academy Awards There is also like a timing aspect to it Yeah Yeah I guess I didn't think too hard about this

When I was doing the cut down list But let's just keep going Because I crashing tiger is a big deal for sure Angley's got a lot of interesting movies In the last 25 years One of the problems with him Is that he always acts He always does something different

He's like I'm going to do the Hulk Just kidding I'm doing taking Woodstock Just kidding, I'm doing what's the crazy movie with Jewel and Toby McGuire, the Western that he did? You know, like, he's always doing something that you don't. Anyway, you wrote 25th hour. I did. This is one of my favorite movies of all time, so I'm obviously not going to argue with you about it. But I did write down Inside Man. I also love to film Inside Man, but we only get one spike.

And I would say that the bulk of the top 10 spike movies are in the 80s and 90s. Correct. There's not a ton from the last 25 years That you would put up there with the very best Yeah 25th hour is one Inside Man is probably the one right behind it Right

What comes after that? I mean, is it Black Klansman? I guess Bamboozled would be the other choice Right Might be Black Klansman I prefer bamboozled to Black Klansman But I think if you were looking at like consensus choices That's one of the few that really broke through

in a big way Maybe that'll change when highest to lowest comes along. We shall see. Well, the other thing that inside man gets you is Denzel. That's a good point. Is he not represented here anywhere? Yeah. Well, yeah, no, it's tough.

Eek. Okay, we'll get to that. Okay. This is deeply unpleasant. It's Mulholland Drive. Okay. Mahal and Drive, continuing on. The Lossity of Z, now I like this pick.

I would really love to find a place for my buddy James Gray. As would I. And this is my pick of the James Gray, but I do also. The immigrant is obviously very good and celebrated. And two lovers, as you know, means a lot to me. That's one I like a lot as well for a variety of reasons. You get Joaquin Phoenix. I get Vanessa Shaw.

Is Gwyneth on our list right now? I don't think so. I mean, she did obviously stop acting at some point. I'm perfectly content with leaving Gwyneth off the list. But that's a spoiler that there will be no Iron Man movies on our list. The Devil Wears Prada. I mean, you know, I was just writing some moms, you know, Amanda stuff, some cocktails. Yep.

I think a hugely influential movie that people don't really... I don't have a lot bad to say about it. I'm not really here to denigrate the Devil Wears Prada. I don't think it's among the 25 best films of the century. But in terms of, like, blockbuster or just big budget movies that make money starring women that are, like, well made, still quoted, kind of in the consciousness, I think, like, explained fashion to, like, a lot of people, which whatever you think about it is, like, a multi-trillion dollar business. And it's also, you know, it's not a rom-com, but. There are so few movies that get made starring major women actors that are not romantic comedies that it's notable on its own. Also, it's hugely important to me, but...

All very strong points and valid, but I will not take away from you. That's fine. But it doesn't have to go on. It's just good. Margaret. Marguerette. Yeah. Not Manchester by the sea? Not you can count on me? If we're talking about the Kenneth Lonergan, Uvra?

You can write them both down. Well, all three of them would be in my personal canon. Yeah. But Margaret's also sort of my, in my personal canon, too. All three of them, like, absolutely pulverized me. And Margaret, you know, I lent some guy my Blu-ray copy, and I just never got it back. And it's still missing. Do I know who this guy is?

You do. I won't say his name. Okay. And I'm mad about it. Does this guy not know where it is? I don't know. We don't speak anymore. Oh, interesting.

Oh, wait. Now I think I know who it is. Lull. That was your choice. I'm disappointed. And it's out of print. It's out of print. And it costs like $80 on eBay now.

I think, okay. Well, I know what I can get you for Christmas. I love Margaret. I don't know where it ended up on my list the year that it came out. That was when I read around when I first. started doing those yearly 100 lists, or at least publishing them. I think it's the right choice,

but I struggle to find a place for it on the big list. A lot of movies that start with the letter M on these lists. Okay, so we're not doing alphabet theory, at least. That's true. The born identity. I say no. That's fine. I think it's good.

I think it's a little overrated. I, of course, we're here. He would support me. I went with a different Doug Lyman movie as my... potential, which would be edge of tomorrow. It's also good, but... We already have Mission Impossible Fallout, and then I think Top Gun Maverick in second place,

so that's not going to make the cut either. Hereditary, I'd like to say thank you for that. You're so welcome. Oh, that was another one I said when I sent you. I said that you should do more foreign, more animated, more horror, and more documentary if you wanted.

You did it? Well, did you? Well, when we did the cut down list, you did something interesting. Yeah. And I want to go to it and we'll circle back. But you made a list called Are We Being Too Cute or Not Cute Enough by Ignoring? And these were the films that you listed.

Hereditary, Margaret, Top Gun Maverick, Uncut Gems, which as of now is not on the top 25 and The Master. Now, this is like one big fat Amanda pick right wedged in between four Sean picks. Well, but... I know you like Margaret, but you know what I'm saying. Yeah, but I think... So what I mean by this.

So I added this category, because as I previously mentioned, you have a category. It's much longer than mine. Title, these would make the list more well-rounded and less predictable. All right. I'm just going to read a few of them. Okay. Fish Tank. All-timer, incredible movie, also on every list.

It is. It is on every list. A lot of these lists are like 100 movies long. long. Yee. Old boy. Drive my car. Burning. A touch of sin. Talk to her. I do have the Lossity of Z. Lossity of Z. Which I put on. Holy Motors, Portrait of a Lady on Fire, which I love, but also is now, like, the sight and sound. You know, like, these are all, these are all movies that are on other lists. And our movies are on other lists too, but the movies I identified are like our movies that are also on other lists.

So that's why I put those. Yeah, I think the challenge of doing a show like this is trying to get out of the way of your persona and try to front your person. Okay, yeah. And like my persona is hereditary uncut gems guy. Yeah. And my person is like talk to her and Wendy and Lucy.

Sure, but that's not even the Kelly Riker that I would pick. That's fine. but I'm just sharing, from my perspective, I've, like, talked myself into a bit that isn't maybe actually how I feel sometimes. I know, and now Marvel is, like, making commercials for you. I know, I know, I know. Well, they always were, so.

I know. And I'm not trying to get too meta in this conversation, but it is striking me that, like, films that, like, hit me hard. Like, when I say, like, squid in the whale, is, like, a big deal movie to me. And that's not the cool choice of, I don't know, you know, Lady Bird or Marriage Story. Squidin the Wheel is not really on a lot of best 100 movies lists, you know.

And so, like, I want to have... I mean, marriage story isn't really either. I guess it's not. I feel like that movie is a little, like, got Netflixed a little bit. Yeah. Anyway, I finished going through all of the films that you recommended. Uncut Chems, and I think Good Time is worth discussing to the previous Saffty Brothers movie. I made a whole list of additions speaking to those prompts that you noted off of your first

shot. I mentioned Uncle Boone me and then talked to her in Valver for Elmadovar. I wrote Midnight in Paris. I do really like it. Which when it came out was a huge hit. Listen. It's a very good Woody Allen movie. It is incredibly charming. I saw it at Bam in Brooklyn and was just full of people just like chuckling

along being like, I get that Hemingway joke, you know? And I was like, I was laughing too because I got the Hemingway joke, but then I felt bad about myself. So that's why it's not on my list. It's very entertaining. It's also. It's also just riddled with controversy and doing an episode about it would be kind of a pain in the neck, to be honest. I wrote down three Michael Hanukah movies.

I think you could write down six. Piano teacher, cachet, and a more sprung to mind immediately. I think the white ribbons on the table there, funny games on the table there. There's like a bunch of movies. Again, he's a me director and is like a very

unsparing, withering. As you know, I You do see that in the world. Yeah, I see that in the world. I have seen... You've seen it on more. We talked about it more on the show.

Yeah, more. I was like famously saw very early on dating Zach. Right, right, right, right. Also at BAM and just sat there across the... You saw a white ribbon, I think, right? Saw white ribbon, funny games. I mean, like, totally fucked up. Yeah.

But, you know, in funny games. That was like a very pop onica movie. Yes, exactly. So, and I do tend to respond to the pop stuff more. Yeah. The Tree of Life? Yeah, it's where the Tree of Life is not on there. So...

we'll come back to the other two lists that I added that are challenging. But the Tree of Life, it's going to be hard for me to not put the Tree of Life on this. I mean, I think that is correct. Yeah. The New World has its defenders as well. I'm not as fond of the New World, but the Malikheads love that one. I wrote two Edgar Wright movies,

Sean of the Dead and Scott Pilgrim versus the World. I think these are very big picture movies. And they represent something in the culture that is sort of like self-awareness but not at the expense of craft. that I really like in modern movies, that I think only a few directors know how to do well. I could write as one of them. Obviously, Spirited Away will almost certainly be the representative for Miyazaki.

Bobby, I would welcome any other additional recommendations you might have for Miyazaki. I also find that kind of the 90s and 80s stuff is the most resonant for me with him beyond Spirited Away, which is not to say that the movies in the last 20 years are bad, but you find Totoro and... Porco Rosso. Porco, sure. Howells Moving Castle You find that those movies Kind of come up more in the all-timers

Well How's Moving Castle is 2004 I believe And that's one That's beloved kind of like In my generation Panyo is beloved too But I don't think it is striving To be as quite

Yeah feels more slight compared to the others Yes definitely I mean my personal favorite is Montanoke But that is 1997 I believe So it's not eligible here I think that spirited away where you landed is probably the only one

that would fall in consideration here. Spirited Away is on the site and sound list, right? Where did that land? Can you look that up, Bob? Sure. You mentioned Edward Yang's Yi Yi. Pan's Labyrinth? Sure.

Germo del Toros? Yeah. I don't know. That's probably his... I know the shape of Water One best picture, but I feel like it's his most celebrated movie. Sully? There's no Clint Eastwood on this list.

Yeah. Would you pick Sully? What would you? would you pick? I do really like Sully. What else is post two thousand? Sorry. The mule? Would you go with the mule? No, I was just remembering. So I want to say in 2020, the New York Times critics did the best movies of the 21st century. And I swear to God, A.O. Scott put a million dollar baby at number three. And that's just like a real thing that happened. Couldn't be me. And then I was remembering when I remember the draft that we did where

Chris was like sitting on million dollar baby at the last minute or Oscar or something. I do remember that, yeah. I would not pick million dollar baby. I wouldn't either. At number three or at any other. I think it's Sully.

Yeah. I like Sully a lot. I saw that at the Vista. Oh, how nice. Okay. Spirited Away, by the way, is 75 on the latest site and sound poll. It's a little lower than I would have guessed.

I would have guessed top 50. Um, probably next time around when there's more young Miyazaki heads are voting. Uh, okay, quickly through the rest of this list. Meeks cut off the other Kelly Wright, one of the other Kelly Wright car movies, hell or high water, um, which I think is still very widely appreciated. Uh, the assassination of Jesse James by the coward Robert Ford, directed by your fave, Andrew Dominic. Steve McQueen's hunger did not put 12 years of slave.

Right. You could put it if you want. to you could put widows. I was going to say you could put widows. Arrival. Now, you did not have Villeneuve on your first list. I was waiting for you to make your decision. I do think that I, this is when looking around, when I realized how many of the letterbox kids love encendiz. Like, and that is the number one on letterbox for all of them. And I was kind of like, all right, kiddos. Like, I wouldn't say, that wouldn't be for me. My, my pick would be a But you can, well, you could write that down.

Okay, just write it down. Sicario's very good. It certainly is. Sicario, the favorite, if you're going to pick a Yorgos Lanthamos movie, he is one of the premier directors of this time, whether or not, whether you like his movies or not. I like the lobster. I do, too. Yeah, that's where I am. And I think that would be a good pick for this list.

Okay. I don't have it on the cut down list, but nevertheless, I like where you're at. Very funny and insightful movie. A prophet, which we will not be putting because of Amelia Perez. Portrait of a Lady on Fire, you mentioned. The Raid, we have a lot of action movies on here, but The Raid, much like Old Boy, incredibly influential and a thrilling movie. Just playing that out there, following up with John Wick. Yeah.

He, they killed his dog. Yeah. And you would do John Wick over John Wick for? Probably. Okay. Bad Boys, too. There's no Michael Bay movie on here. Yeah. I'd also submit ambulance for consideration that L and the A are capitalized because it takes place in the city of Los Angeles.

Yeah. That's a phenomenal film. Corriated shoplifters. Devastating. Lee Chandong's Burning. Mm-hmm. Christian Petzold's Phoenix. Yes.

Claire Denise Bo Travye. Yes. Now, all of those movies I just named you find on a lot of these lists. Right. I like some more than others Burning, that was like my number two movie The Year that year, that's a big one for me. Yeah, you guys loved that.

I really liked that movie a lot. What about the Lord of the Rings? The Fellowship of the Ring? Are we really not going to put that on? What the fuck's your problem? Lady? Do you remember when that shit came out? And we were like, we did it!

We got it! Peter Jackson! You beautiful best! Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was awesome. I do remember. That movie is great. Yeah, they're good.

They're good. I have absolutely no memory of what happens in any of them besides, like, the ring. Fly, you fools. And then, and like, you know, and I know my precious. And my mother, for some reason, is not aware of the Lord of the Rings and calls both my children, like, my precious. Like, that is what her does. And I'm just like, this is fucked up, ma'am.

Like, someone needs to. Tolkien right from what he knew. Anyway. I mean, sure. Don't just throw your hands up because we're an hour or two here. We're talking about the fellowship with the fucking ring. It's not going to make the long list, but that is cool. I would put, what was the nine-hour Peter Jackson Beatles movie?

Get back. That's a TV show. A separation, Asgar Farhadi's very, very upsetting movie. Wally? We haven't even talked about Pixar yet. There's no Pixar on this yet. Ratatoui. Yeah.

Don Hertzfeld did such a beautiful day. Sure. Big one for me. Yeah. Now I wrote Call Me By Your. name and you responded with a bigger splash. I don't know if either

were going to make the cut. We'll get there. Hero and Donnie Darko. Now this was just the first round. We're just done with the first round. Now we're going to do 30 minutes

of nitty gritty here. Okay. We're going to do some listing. Now, my next act was during Sundance weekend. Yes. Two stone cold hours. Yeah.

Of chiseling rock. I took all this raw material. and I went mining for the truth. Right. Now, do you think I should say where the list stands right now at this juncture and then we can bang through some more of it?

Yeah, because we might reorder a few things. Yeah. This is your proposal. So this is... And you were not, like, offended by this. This, no. I wasn't offended by it. I wanted...

There are some things I want to discuss with you. Okay. But, and maybe some alternate films for the film. makers. And maybe a couple of things we need to squeeze in. But I didn't hate it. I just want to note that this is the edited list because the first list you sent me was quickly followed by wait, I just realized that there will be blood is not on this. To which I said, you can take almost famous off and put there will be blood on. So that is, that is the cut that I made.

I did do that. And I will, and I'm sorry to all of you and to Cameron Crow. I'm going to start this by reading the hard cuts. These movies don't appear on the list right now. For me personally, these were really, really, really hard cuts. AI. There's no Steven Spielberg on the list right now. I thought that you would pick Minority Report. I thought about it, but it's just too much cruise, too much action, too samey. Okay.

Even though Minority Report is great. Whiplash. Yeah. It's hard. It's hard out here. It's hard out here. I did it. Almost famous.

Yeah. I took it. You were a brat. I don't appreciate that. No, it's a good movie. I love Cameron Crow. Is it my favorite Cameron and Crow movie? No, it's not.

I think it's a very important film. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. Super bad, hard cut. Yeah. We love Super Bad. Moonlight, Hard Cut. Yeah. We didn't talk in the first round about certified copy, but I would say that that is in, that to me is, we don't talk about that movie that much on the show, but that is in a similar realm of, this is really important and good.

Yes. We would never do certified copy on the rewatchables, but it would be a great movie to kind of like take a part together on a show. Agree. Tar. Didn't make the cut. Arrival didn't make the cut. Well, I know, but does Sicario make the cut? Well, it's not on there right now.

Yeah, but. And Wally. So maybe if you want to, we can put Secario right next to it and say. So Wally is your Pixar pick. Wally is my Pixar pick, but it's not making the cut. Okay. There is no Pixar movie on the list right now. There's no Spielberg on the list.

There's no Denny Villeneuve on the list. There's no Luca Guadanino on the list right now. I know, which is very upsetting to me. There's another movie that I thought. of that is resonating in culture right now called Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind because what Severance is doing is so deeply riffing on Eternal Sunshine almost to the point of frustration for me personally but Brokeback Mountain is not there. Francis Ha is not there. Yeah. There's no Noah Baumbach. Although obviously he, I feel like Lady Bird, you know,

that, no, stop it. What do you mean? They are, they are independent people. making their own art and we can honor both of them. Absolutely. I'm sure. I'm sure he never read the script before she went out and made the movie. Let's just read the list. You want to keep going? I mean, there's no Steven Soderberg on this list. There's no Steven Soderberg. Oceans 11 is eligible. I know that.

It's eligible. I know. And it's not here. The tree of life. There's no Terrence Malick. Sorry, I was just thinking about Chris Ryan and UNESCO sites. The way you said that was the way that. What did he say? He was talking about Nolan making the Odyssey, and he's just like, they're honoring

UNESCO sites. He's honoring them, and it's just really funny. Did you see the photo of Tom Holland on a Viking ship with Nolan that came out today? Yeah. Wow. Just go to like whatever Christopher Nolan updates X.com. Tom Holland Odyssey. Let's go.

First images on the set of I found Chris's blog. And there he goes. Okay, so Chris Nolan, I guess they have to wear life jackets if they're not. I think so. That's really funny. Yeah, they've got to be safe. That's funny. They're not performing.

Okay. The love in basketball is not on the list. Didn't come up on the first batch. That's kind of a tough one. Yeah. Birth? No Jonathan Glazer. No Jonathan Glazer on the list right now.

No zone of interest. No sexy beast. Birth would be our pick. It would be my pick. I would be comfortable negotiating to birth. Okay. But not giving birth. Yeah.

I'll never give birth. Except to the birth of ideas on this show. Okay. A star is born It never came up I know my limits I know I got to pick my battles Okay

I love that movie I recently I don't remember what movie What I was That I was searching for But there was a Mom will love this pack Of movies you know

How sometimes like when you're On digital Yeah digital And they like We'll sell you a bundle And it was like And it was funny games Valentine's Day

No And it was like For Gary Marshall films and a star is born, the Bradley Cooper version. And I was like, this is rude. I mean, you know, these are your people. No Michael Hanuk on the list. Okay. No bridesmaids on the list. I'm fine with it. I know it was like incredibly important. No Kenneth Launergan. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Women can make money.

The Lord of the Rings didn't make it. Okay. I don't feel good about it. All right. Well, we can discuss it. Werner Herzog. Yeah. Furthermore, no documentaries. Well? Other missing Americans of note. Go ahead.

Clint Eastwood. Mm-hmm. M. Knight Shammel. Mm-hmm. Sam Ramey. Todd Haynes. Yeah. No Damian Shazelle or Barry Jenkins.

No James Gray. No Saftees. No Ari Aster. No Robert Eggers. No Soderberg, as you mentioned. No Sarah Polly. She's Canadian. No, De Neville No, he's Canadian.

No Michael Bay. No Richard Kelly. No No Obamaback. No, Catherine Bigelow. We didn't even talk about the Hurt Locker or Zero Dark 30 for a variety of reasons. Kelly Reichart also not represented here.

Only one European director. And it's Lars von Trigger. And it's Laura's Von Trigger. It's really weird. So that means El Madova are not represented. Yorkos Lantamos not represented. Paul Verhoven, Celine Siama, Thomas Winterberg, the Dardens, Ken Loach,

Pavel Pavlovakowski, didn't mention Eda or Cold War. No Mike Lee. Yeah. No Paolo Sorntino, no Bella Tarr, no Mia Hanson Love, no Olivier Assayas, no Ed, you're right, no Luca Guadino, no Jonathan Glazer. We are also using European in the pre-Brexit sense. Fair point. Not European Union, the continent of Europe, right? I think so. Okay. Four Asian directors represented on this list. I won't say who they are because we'll go through the list momentarily.

Well, everybody else knows. Because they've been listening to a lot of... I'm giving them the mindset of where we are now in the process. We're having the meeting. Okay, okay. So, based on what we just talked about, no Ang Lee, no Zhang Yamo, no Abbas Kirstami, no Li Changdong, no Hoshoshan, no Satoshi Khan,

no Asgar Farhadi, Jafar Panahi, Wang Bing, John Wu, Rice Gahamoguchi, Edward Yang, Takeshi Kitano, Hong Sang-Su, Jia Chanka, like none of these... Yeah, listen, 25 is not a lot. Okay. One Mexican director is represented. It's Alfonso Quaron.

Right. We'll get to that in a minute, which one we don't know. No del Toro, no Inoritu, lull. Yeah, I mean, one of those was foreseeable. We did not mention Eniritu at all. Also, a two-time best director winner, like Angli. Carlos Regatas not represented Alonso Ruiz Palacios not represented

Robert Rodriguez No South American or African directors I blame you Okay So I think Lucretia Martel and Zama Is the movie that you most see on the lists I've just never been a big Lucretia Martel fan Adam Neiman is a tremendous fan of hers

If you want to read great writing about her work He has done a lot of it But no Fernando Morayas No Pablo Lorraine and many other South American filmmakers that were not talking about on this list. One Australian. So it's just George Miller.

No Peter Jackson and no Baz Luhrman. You fought tooth and nail from Moulin Rouge, and I said no. Peter Jackson is from New Zealand to speak. New Zealand, excuse me. You're talking Australian, the continent. Yes, yes. Yeah.

Did your child recently learn? No shots of the Kiwis. Yeah, no, I know. I respect New Zealand. You're absolutely right about that. now on this list there's only one best picture winner okay i think we feel right about that there's only one comic book movie there's only i wrote down one action movie but that's not right that's wrong there's three action movies there's only one horror movie okay i don't know how

i feel about that i let's as i said this is a negotiation three sequels okay and these are the years that are not represented on the list you mentioned that there were no films after 2019, which is true to this moment. Then no movies from 2005, 2012, 2014. Week years? Or just other years were that much stronger? TBD. Now, there's a whole

host of major stars that we talk about on this show all the time that are not a part of this list. Among them, Ryan Gosling, Emma Stone, Jennifer Lawrence, Bradley Cooper, Kate Blanchett, Matt Damon, Ben Affleck, Reese Witherspoon, Nicole Kidman, Denzel Washington. We could go on. There are many, many other stars

who are not a part of this list. So anybody who's out there saying you guys are star fuckers, you only like Ben Affleck movies and J-Lo documentaries, I got news for you guys. The greatest story never told, not on the list. Have you seen that yet? No. Okay.

And I will not. There's a whole part where Ben Affleck is like, look at all these cameras and explaining cameras to Jennifer Lopez. I love Ben. I got mad respect for Ben. Town, not on this list. Mallrats, banger. Argo, not on this list.

Lantoms. He was the bomb in Phantoms, yo. Like, he's just the man. Okay. Let's do the list. Okay. This is where it stands right now. I'm not saying this is where it's going to end. Yeah. This is where we, what I hammered out and you basically more or less accepted, but now the final steps begin. Yeah, I said put a pin in it and roll the cameras. Okay. So, I'm going to start right now because I like, we have to talk about it. And we have to explain it. okay so number 25 you have michael clayton i wanted a cool episode to start that's what i was going to explain i know that i understand like jesus christ okay we're having the meeting but i know the rules we're opening up the meeting to everyone else yeah when you

make a list you got to grab people in with something up top that they a want to listen to you want to like interested in okay and be like also make them a little mad so many people myself included might recoil at the idea that Michael Clayton is as low as it is. But I think it's a great kickoff. And, you know, the right scale and it's, and also George Clooney. We don't have to explain every pick, but I do think these key moments are the right ones to explain. Yes. Okay. You want to keep going? Sure. So 24 we have the handmaiden, which it seems like maybe you want to change it to old boy. You only have a couple weeks. I might want to change it. And if you change it, Does it change the ranking?

I really like the Handmaiden, too. No, it doesn't. I think this is like a good spot for Park Chan Wook. I think it's a good spot for either of these movies. So it's not that big of a deal. I don't know, man. I'm like kind of eager to return to the handmaid because I haven't seen it in a while.

Whereas old boy I have seen recently. Have you watched the Park Chan Wook Little Dumber Girl yet? No. I watched the first 23 minutes twice. And you were just like, no. I'm just like, stop making TV shows. It's the only exception to the TV show thing. It's absolutely.

Just make movies. Let's leave the handmaid in there for now. Okay. After that, his Mission Impossible Fallout, which I feel pretty good about. He jumps out of a plane. He's thrown through a bathroom mirror. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Very violently.

I just watched this recently. Henry Cavill, you know, powers up his arms. The whole motorcycle thing. Yeah, the helicopter fight. Pretty good. Michelle Monaghan. Yeah, very beautiful. She's doing stuff.

Vanessa Kirby. Vinger Ames. Yeah. Simon Fagg. If we put this movie on the list and we keep it where it is, then that's an acknowledgement of Sean of the Dead. Okay. Which is not here. That's fine.

Do you feel like, this is also, this is an acknowledgement of Tom Cruise, of franchise. in a lot of ways with one other exception and I think that is like that is our shared favorite franchise going Yes Losers like the Fast and the Furious

Winners like Mission Impossible Right We didn't even discuss Fast 5 Or should we Yeah okay All right all right I just you know Just putting it out there

I've got something's got to give at 22 Now is that movie better than Fallout I think we're sort of like We're doing tears right? No. We're not doing tears?

Okay. I would say it's writing is actually better than fallout. Then I've made a great choice. And Jack Nicholson has to be able to walk up those stairs before he can have sex, you know, and he does it. So it has dramatic action sequences. It does have a sex scene between Jack Nicholson and Diane Keaton. I've got to say sex in your 70s. That sounds challenging.

Like, as my body is just totally breaking down in 43. It's also got this scene where he's like on... I really am. I really, I hope it happens for you. Me too. And they have put a lot of medical research dollars behind making sure that that's possible for you. I'm actually not worried about that.

At the expense of my health generally. So just like me being able to even see a gynecologist, you know, and is is under debate. But there are all sorts of medicines to make sure you can have. I'm not worried about ED. Okay. I'm worried about not having functioning limbs. I mean, I might be worried about it then.

Right. Well, that, I mean, that's, he has to be able to make it up the stairs because that's when his heart is ready after his heart attack to have sex again. So, but listen, he's got Keanu Reeves, who's a doctor in the Hamptons, who believes in him. So maybe we can achieve that for you, too. Okay. Great. Also, this scene when he's running around in the hospital gown with his ass totally out every single time I've worn a hospital gown since that it's like an enduring image. And then it's also, like, useful for small chat with, you know, like small talk.

This is your case for something's got to give right now? Just like it's influential, you know, coastal grandmas, one of Diane Keene's best performances. Agreed. They go to Paris. I've been to that restaurant in Paris. They have a big sign. Just have a sip of water, please. I'm out of water.

That explains your manic. 2021 The Dark Night. Yeah. Do you want to change it? Keep going. 20, the Royal Tenenbaum's. I feel good about this. 19 spirited away.

I feel good about this. 18. It too mamma tambien. I went with this over children of men. I guess we are. Made in his native Mexico. And thus far we have been pretty genre heavy. Agreed.

And I feel like I kind of jammed those up at the top. Not to get people interested in this, the opposite really. More to just be like, this stuff matters, but let's not get too bog down it is. We go down the list. Okay. You can make the case that a couple of these should be flipped so that it's not so action-y near the top. Okay. Anchorman is 17.

Stepbrothers, super bad. The other guys? No, we're not going to do the other guys, even though I do like it. I think... Christine Neth. Her name is Christine Neth. Get my wife's name right. So

That's very good Even though my instinct was super bad I do think that Your Will Ferrell Instinct I think there's got to be Will Ferrell movie I agree with you

I think he is the comic star Of this century You agree? Yes, I do So Seth Brothers is really funny It is very good Um, before sunset at 16.

Okay. I made a very strong, strong, strong move to put inside Lewin Davis at 15. I'm open to it. Now, I thought that this would be the best I could get in terms of meeting in the middle with you, that you wouldn't go a serious man with me, but you would go inside Lewin Davis. I think that's probably right. Though, I think that's unfair to me and my generosity of spirit because... Oh, for sure. I would, in this one case, let you do whatever Cohen you wanted.

Because that means something to you. And the way that you're giving me, Marie Antoinette, because you're just kind of like you are, that's like your thing. Yeah. And if you want to do a serious man. They don't make movies anymore. It's very disappointing. I mean, you know, they're doing them separately, but not together.

I mean, I agree. You know, Honey Don't will be out by the time we've recorded this, which is the new Ethan Cohen movie starring Margaret Quali, your faith. Yeah. I like her. Okay. And she's very good at dancing, as we learned at the 97. the annual Academy Awards.

Completely just instantly dated this conversation. You think that listeners of this podcast won't remember the Bond Tribute in December and how long that took? I pray I forget. Well. I think Inside Lewand Davis is a good pick. Serious Man is my favorite. No Country For Old Men is great. My absolute favorite cones are in the 90s in the 80s.

Let's stick with Insideland Davis. Wolf of Wall Street of 14. Too low? Too high? I think that it could maybe go, you could flip 14 and 12. And I say that with. Oh, fuck yeah. Okay.

Yeah. And I say that, I say that with. And honestly, honestly, maybe you could do, maybe you could put 14 at 11, 11 at 12, 13 stays the same. Do you see what I'm doing here? I do. 14 at 11, 11 at 12, and 12 at 14. Now we're talking. Okay.

Now, we should be doing screen capture for this. Yeah. This is the real work. Okay. So now coming in at number 14 is Moneyball. Yeah. Which is one of my favorite films of all time. Do you think that this is the year that we can host a screening of Moneyball?

Do you think we did it? It's the end. It's December 2025. We've had many very kind programmers over the years ask us to come and program a movie. We've programmed Gone Girl. phantom thread. What else? I'm forgetting other movies. We've done a few others. I did a bunch at the Frida, when you were on leave. Right, right, right, right. Um, and every time we say guys would have a money ball. They're like, yeah. Yeah. Okay. I don't really, don't, don't think that's

going to sell. I'm Sean Fantasy. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is 25 for 25, a big picture special conversation show about money ball. And how can you not be romantic? About baseball. Moneyball 14, Bennett Miller. No, I thought you were going to ask. Do you think Bennett Miller will make another movie this year? Oh, no. Okay, I don't think so either.

Number 13's Get Out. Yeah. Feels like the right spot. It feels good. That's why it stayed where it was and we just moved things around it. Yeah. Number 12, Melancholia. You've moved from number 11.

Yes. Because. Well, first of all, we had. Kiki right in a row. Oh, maybe I did that intentionally. Well, I do think that the film The Wolf of Wall Street is better than

Melancholia. Should we put a little distance between Melancholia and Marie Antoinette? Should we move Melancholia like to number 20 and move the Royal Tenenbaum's to 12? Sure. I like that. I think that's probably accurate. I like that, yeah. Okay. Let's do that. I'm still getting over only

having one European filmmaker on this list. And I'm drawing attention to it in part because it just seems a little crazy to me. But we'll figure it out. We'll figure it out here. Okay. So the number 12 is the Royal Tenenbaum's Melancholia is at 20. I think that's better. Yeah, I do as well.

Number 10, as you just gave away, Marie Antoinette. Is this the right spot? I would also be willing to bump Wolf of Wall Street to 10 and do. No? No. You think Marie Antoinette stays at 10? Yes. That's so beautiful.

Look, look at you supporting women. I stand with you. Every day of the year. I stand with you up a hundred times a year on this fucking podcast. It's more than 100. I'm sorry to say. This year it'll be like 130. Number nine is parasite.

Now we're in like a really tough spot. I'm covering my face in my mouth. Okay. Because I'm in a little bit of pain. Marie Antoinette at 10 is good. That's a cool pick. a smart pick. These next few

were very predictable, but they're all worthy. I think they're in the right order, but I could be wrong. Parasite at 9, Mad Max Fury Road at 8.

In the mood for love, at 7. Mulholland Drive at 6. These are all canonical works. Mm-hmm. A good blend of international

and American. They are in genre but, like, abstract genre at the same time. Social thriller, action epic, yearning romance, and I guess coming of age for Mulholland Drive. I was just going to say David Lynch movie.

Yeah, nightmare. Which is its own genre. But it's framed as it's sort of like a gal comes to town. She's trying to make it in the city. I mean, I'm sitting here trying to like be interesting and suggest a more interesting order. It's your whole job. Your entire job is to be interesting on the mic.

Thank you so much. But in this particular case, I think, I mean, you could flip parasite in Mad Max, but I don't think that's good list making. I would do it. Do you want to? Yep. Okay.

That's a good suggestion. Okay. The tricky thing is, like, you know, a parasite conversation. is a portal to a conversation about South Korean cinnamon the 21st century Right

In The Mood for Love is a story Is a conversation about Hong Kong cinema What One CarWye brings to the table Mulholland Drive We know what that conversation is

Yeah yeah yeah I think this is supportable I think Mad Max Fury Road I think with movies What is your concern Like what are you not saying right now There's no right order Sure

So you know when you're doing this You know when you're at a magazine And you're in the room And you're like It's not being public publicly projected, and you can stand behind the editorial voice of the publication. Right, right, right. And so your cleverness is rewarded with provocation, and this act is a little different.

Because you think people are going to be yelling at you about... No, it's because I don't want to inspire provocation at the root. Oh, I see. I want to be like, this is how we feel. You don't... Okay. You know what I mean? Yeah.

I mean, two things can be true. This is how we feel. And I also don't feel that there is a huge difference in greatness between number seven and number eight on this list. Or number eight and number nine.

You're probably right. But maybe it's just that I'm slowing down and thinking about it. Yeah. I feel that both are master works of cinema. Let's do Marie Antoinette at 10, Mad Max Fury Road at 9, Parasite at 8.

In The Mood for Love at 7. Mulholl and Drive at 6. Okay. That leaves us with 5. Yeah. The order that I've placed these five movies in is as follows. Lady Bird at 5. Inglorious bastards at 4 with a big fucking asterisk next to it.

You have just written once upon a time in Hollywood right next to it. It's not even like on a different line or in a comment. It's just like right there. There will be blood at 3. Mm-hmm. 25th hour at 2. Yeah. Which was a beautiful act of filmmaking.

I mean, of list making. Thank you. And also of filmmaking. Thank you. That's what I was going for. Obviously, I... And I, like, my eyebrows went up, and then I was like, yeah. Yeah.

Okay, but not too cute? No. Okay. Because we would love that movie. The greatest ending of a movie of... Mm. My favorite. My favorite.

And then social network at one. Yeah. Which is predictable, but I think sometimes that's okay. I think sometimes... You just, you need to speak the truth, you know. Okay, go back to Tarantino for me. There are no bad Tarantino movies in the 21st century. There are no mid-Tarantino movies in the 21st century.

Everybody has their favorites. Some people like Django. Some people prefer the grindhouse experience. Some people digging glorious bastards. Some people like Kill Bill Volume 2. I popped once upon a time in Hollywood into the old 4K player like three or four weeks ago

just to watch the first 10 minutes Yeah and then you watched the whole thing I didn't get through the whole thing But I was like fuck Like I got slipped right into it Yeah And the truth is I'm being really real with you right now That doesn't happen to me anymore

Because I made this my job It's a little bit like when you hear a beat reporter Say I grew up rooting for the New York Giants And I don't root for a team anymore because I know too much or I experience too much I've made movies too much of my life.

It doesn't mean I don't still love movies. It just means that thing I did all the time from 14 to 30. Which is like, I just got to rewatch shit. I fucking love.

Yeah. I can't really get there with a lot of stuff. And this movie was so easy. Obviously, I love Quentin, and personally love him, you know, his movies, like all that stuff.

That's all understood. But, and in Glorious, is a diamond, right? It's like a perfectly constructed masterwork. But I think maybe it would be once upon a time in Hollywood for me. Okay. So here's the thing, is that I'm sympathetic to what you were saying about it becomes, the more that this becomes our job, the less we have the experience of just watching it to watch. And I think that in a lot of ways, Like, the essential characteristic of all of these movies are, they are movies that, like, get us across the hump from annoying podcaster to person who just loves watching movies.

And, and, like, they are all of that quality for me. The thing is, is that both Inglorious Bastards and Once Upon a Time in Hollywood are that to me. I think they're both great. I don't know whether it's recency anti-bias. I'm trying to account for this as well. I don't know whether, I don't know. I mean, Glorious Bastards is just, it's my favorite Tarantino. It's, I mean, it's just my favorite Tarantino, full stop.

Like, I just, that is my pick. That's always my pick. Over Pulp Fiction. Yeah. Okay. Well, listen, I wasn't allowed to see Pulp Fiction when it came out in 1994 because I was 10. So you come to it later. That sucks.

That's tough. Listen, I'm, every day I'm persevering. You know, every day. You're so brave. I'm doing the work. But so I just, In Glorious Bastards, I remember seeing it. It's... Okay.

We'll keep In Glorious Bastards. I just want it to be on the record that I agonized over this. Well, we have time because that at number three... At number three? On the list, it'll be a December recording. So if... Oh. Yeah.

Oh, you're right about that. I'm not trying to like... It's number four, but yeah. Oh, it is? And this is an interesting thing, you know, in my heart and in my mind, these people are engaged in a death struggle for primacy in my heart. But these people, you mean Quentin Tarantino, Paul Thomas Anderson, Spike Lee, and David Fincher? Correct. Okay.

I would say, and so is the list too schematic and or, and answer me honestly, Me leaning By doing that. No, because... And I'm not saying you don't like any of those filmmakers. I know you love them. But those are kind of the four that I have like organized a lot of my

movie admiration around and probably like switched me on to a ton of stuff over the years. Yeah. I mean, so at five we have Greta Gerwig. At 10, we have Sophia Coppola. Those are two of my three We've got Nancy Myers on the list We

You know I think those are And I'm not I'm not trying to reduce myself To like well I like the girls You know but No but I like them too And Greta and Sophia would have been on my list

I don't know if it would have been these movies specifically But they both would have been on my list If I just made it by myself The thing is is that Fincher Especially Fincher and Tarantino And well like Spike Lee Like I love these

movies like these specific movies and that's why i'm arguing for inglorious bastards instead of once upon a time in hollywood i like i love all tarantino movies not in the same way that you do but where i meet you is at these specific movies so it's okay with me i'll roll with you on inglorious bastards um there will be blood at three 25th hour two in the social network at one are you being a cuck by not choosing the master No, I don't think so, because I just don't think it's superior. Okay. And I, I, I don't either, but I just, I don't either, but I just, I know, you know, I'm just, I'm asking you, you know.

No, I think the master would be a really cool pick. And it would be an acknowledgement of Philip Seymour Hoffman and what he means to the century in movies. Yeah. But I, there will be blood. I've now done multiple podcasts about the movies. and written long pieces and interviewed PTA multiple times and every time it's come up. It's back in the news with the brutalist, you know, so many of the themes. I mean, so is the master, you know.

True, true. That's fine. We got to talk about the things that I, that aren't on this list that I maybe can't live with. Okay. There's no Soderberg on this list. Mm-hmm. Now, you could argue that if out of sight were eligible or the Limey were eligible, then he would be on the list. This is my thing.

But that seems really, really stupid for one of the signature filmmakers of, I mean, there's also no Spielberg on this list. So, like, what are we doing? You know, if there's no Spielberg, then there's no. They operate in similar spaces to me where their best stuff just wasn't at this time. Okay. And it doesn't mean that their stuff that they made at this time wasn't great because it was great. There's a case for the Fableman's. Straight up.

Sure. There is a case for it. um we don't have a lot of old master reflecting back on what he hath wrought there's not that's not really a conceit of this list and i'm fine with that no boundback i'm okay with that as i said i i know ladybird he's not credited in any way but there's some vibe sure it's a it's a hard miss for us but it's i think it's a miss francis i was in my like i can't believe we're not doing this right Wasn't even? Yes. No tree of life.

I don't know if I can rationalize that one to myself. Okay. So what would you take away? The dark night? Ooh, you are courting the anger of a lot of people. It's fine with me. I don't care. I just think my sordid history with no one stands makes this a little bit annoying.

But like, I don't know, the tree of life is better than the dark night. What are we doing here? Yeah. No, it is. Bobby, any thoughts? I mean, my feeling, since I saw the Dark Night on this list, is that Oppenheimer should be the entry for Nolan if there is going to be one. I can't get that over the line with our partner in crime here. I know.

I get that. So I don't feel as sensitive to the idea of removing the Dark Night because I think it's like Nolan's third best movie this century. Are you an interstellar, bro? No. I'm decidedly anti-interstellar. And I have caught a lot of shit for it over the years, but I've stuck to that. opinion. I even went and saw it in the IMAX re-release and I still feel the same. Okay.

I don't hate interstellar. I just am not as over the moon for it. Pardon the pun. As so many other people. Listen, that's fine with me. I'm doing it. Okay. Maybe I feel like Tree of Life Melancholio in a row is sort of intense. So... Tough sit. Yeah, we want to... Let's do some finessing.

Okay. The Tree of Life. can come after Anchorman. Okay. And here's what I'm going to, I'm going to do some magic. Tree of Life, what year is that movie? 2010 or 11 or something like that. Oh, 2010, I think you're right.

Yeah. Tree of Life is 2011. Yeah. Same year as Melancholia. Similar themes in reverse. Tree of Life is going to go at 16. Before sunset, it's going to go to 18. It's going to go to 23.

Oh, okay. Mission Impossible Fallout is going to go to 21. Okay. And I think there's balance there. How do you feel about melancholy a spirited away in before sunset in a row? Do we need some variation? Well, how do you feel about something that's got to give Mission Impossible Fallout, melancholy a spirited away before sunset?

All in a row. Cool movies. I mean, great movies. Those are all cool movies and they're all different. They all elicit a different kind of conversation. I think Melancholia and Spirited Away are a little bit vibes-wise the same. Okay. The Spirited Away Pod will be fascinating.

Do you want to flip? No, I think that's good. I mean, you could flip before Sunset and Spirited Away, but... Is the handmaid in an Itumelamian to sex forward at the bottom? And then something's going to give. That's right. Sex abounds. It's kind of sex months.

And then Mission Impossible, which has absolutely no sex whatsoever. But Vanessa Kirby and that leg reveal. Yeah, sure. You know, in the garter. Sure. That's great stuff. She got a knife in there?

If we're losing the dark night, when you were concerned about it being too action heavy, are you interested in swapping out old boy for the handmaid it now? Oh. Not that I want to break up the sex run necessarily. I would like to leave the handmaiden, I think. I think that's a very good idea. And I might change my mind when I rewatch the handmaiden to prepare for the episode.

I'm just here to support you guys, you know? What about, I'm going to remind you. I'm going to, now that it's changed and now that we've got rid of the dark night, children of men? Aha. Uh-huh. Let's do it. Okay.

Okay. Children of men. Now we don't have to worry. Children of Men being a less good movie than something's got to give in the immediate is very funny. It's just a good bit. What Children of Men, 2008? Okay. Okay?

Yeah. Yeah. This feels for now, for now. For now, you feel okay with it? There will be the Nolan kids. That's on you. What do you mean? It's on me.

I just, um. I'm happy. You're one half of this selection process, which is coming to a conclusion right now. Yeah, but it won't keep me up at night. The thing about the Dark Night... You won't let us put Oppenheimer on the list. That's really the issue.

That's the best movie he's made this century. The thing about the Dark Night that I was about to say that also applies to Oppenheimer is that it's one of the great movies that you've ever seen and then it keeps going for 90 minutes. You did that bit. that bit. It's true of Dark Night, too. Dark Night goes on for another 25 minutes.

Okay. You know my, I've said that many times before, but if they would have just cut, when Heath has got his head hanging out the window, I would have been like, holy fuck, this is the best movie of all time. Okay, let's just hold it there, but we're going to make some more changes. I know it. Okay. Like in the process. I'm going to wake up one morning. I'm going to shoot out of bed. Stock still. Do we get to do an addendum to this in December?

Like, right now, we, what? That's what I was going to ask you guys. Yeah, so we can just come in and be like, okay, here's what we did. Michael Clayton's not changing. That's not changing. I want to do that. I love Michael Clayton. I'm ready to watch it like tomorrow.

I'm not changing that. We got to talk about scheduling. We start recording these like now. Yeah. I think that this is a great first 10. Okay. Let's just stop here. Bob, thanks for this inspiration to have this conversation in public.

I think it was very civil. Yeah, it was nice. I think we did a lot of work ahead of time to get us to this place, but now maybe I feel even less confident than I did previously. Okay. But I like the changes that we made together. I enjoyed this process, and I feel confident. And I'm not too worried about what anyone else thinks.

I'm extremely happy for you. Yeah. But I'm excited to rewatch all these movies So that's nice And this list will have already been torn to pieces By the time this air So I don't even It doesn't even matter what I say now

You will know about it I'll forward you all the emails Thanks to Bobby Wagner for his help on this episode He's our producer Thanks to Gahou for filling in for Jack Sanders Who when he returns We'll have to deal with recording 25 of these episodes With us

Thanks to the listeners at home for being so cool about this project just being very open-minded and thoughtful and like really engaging and making your own list and sharing them

in good faith and good honor thanks to you Amanda in theory at this time it's about to be 2026 you think that will be a great year yeah yeah I hope so

we need to turn things off could use a good year yeah okay all right well see you next time You know what I'm going to be.