The Big Picture - The Adam Sandler Hall of Fame and ‘Jay Kelly’ With Noah Baumbach!

Episode Date: December 10, 2025

Sean and Amanda cover Noah Baumbach’s new film, ‘Jay Kelly,’ starring George Clooney and Adam Sandler. They work through their mixed reactions to the movie and sort through specifically what worked for them and what didn’t (4:24). Then, they speculate Sandler’s potential award chances (41:33) before building his Hall of Fame with their favorite performances (53:50). Finally, Sean is joined by Baumbach to explain why he doesn’t enjoy revisiting his old work, why Clooney was perfect for the part of Jay, and whether his films are getting funnier or more tragic with age (1:49:39). Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guest: Noah Baumbach Producer: Jack Sanders Shopping. Streaming. Celebrating. It’s on Prime. A State Farm agent can help you choose the coverage you need. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.®  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Sean Fennessey. And this is the Big Picture a Conversation show about Jay Kelly and the Sandman. Today we will talk about Jay Kelly, the new drama starring George Clooney, which is now streaming on Netflix. Perhaps you've heard about them this week. Adam Sandler co-stars in the film. is one of the highlights of this movie, so we're going to take this opportunity to build the Adam Sandler Hall of Fame,

or at least I will. No, I can build an Adam Sandler Hall of Fame. The hesitation you saw in my face was not the second half of that sentence. Got it, the first half about Netflix. Later in this episode, I'll be joined by Noah Baumback, the writer and director of Jay Kelly, and someone who has not been on this show in six years.

It's been six years since Marriage Story. He did make one film in between those two white noise. We talked a bit about the period between White Noise and Jay Kelly, talked about making this new movie, talked about movie start-um, talked about Sandler, great conversation,

Bomback, one of our favorites. I hope you'll stick around for that chat. But first, let's take quick break, and then we'll talk. This episode of The Big Picture is presented by Amazon Prime. You know how in every great holiday movie there's that last-minute scramble

to make it all come together? From gifts to hosting essentials, Prime's fast shipping is always there for you during the holidays, especially when it's last minute and just can't wait. So if you need fast-free delivery that saves the day, it's on Prime.

Head to Amazon.com slash Prime to shop now. Not a ton of news in the world to break down today. We are... Not since Monday morning. Right. And it is Tuesday afternoon. We are following the Warner Brothers Netflix Paramount Saga. Right.

There's a lot of saber rattling. Sure. Very few men are unsheathing their swords, though. At this moment, I understand that the top price is still $30. I don't think... Per share. Not $30 total. Yeah.

Like to announce that I'm buying Water Brothers. And then I personally will be leading the tours on the studio lot. Yes. It's $30 per share if you include the cable companies.

Yes. So whatever. But will the Ellisons and their Motley crew go higher? I offer to buy the Discovery Channel and that's it. I just want the Discovery Channel.

Does that still exist? Is that still a channel you can watch? I'm going to buy the golf carts and then just drive around the lot. Do you think you'll buy a golf cart in your lifetime? So growing up, my grandparents, my North Carolina grandparents, they lived about a quarter mile from my aunts and uncles in like very rural North Carolina. So they did buy a golf cart for us to just drive on the road back and forth. And you could either drive on the road or on the back trails. But like, let me tell you,

I went hard. I caught air on the golf carts. That's great. I caught air this morning when I I learned Edwin Diaz is not returning to New York Mets. Wow, what an incredible segue. This is the most important news in my world today, and I'm just, I'm honestly extremely frustrated and devastated, and I don't know what to say. It's not germane to movies, but it is germane to my psychological stage. It's germane to two-thirds of this podcast, because I've never seen Jacksander's Satter. When I saw him this morning, I said, how are you?

And he said terrible. And then, but, you know, I didn't at that moment have the context of Edwin D. as leaving the Mets. So I just thought Jack was a shambles, which I suppose he is in a sports-related sense. It really doesn't matter to the grand scheme of the big-picture conversation, except to say that I was hoping that the New York Mets would not be embarrassing. And they keep proving me wrong.

Right. And I just, I need more things to pour my heart into. So embarrassing in what sense? We just, we don't optically want to. lose the best closer in baseball to the most dominant franchise in the sport and then replace said closer with the Yankees setup, man.

That's loser shit. Who had a horrible season? We don't do that. And it could work out. It could be fine. I could be here with you next October and saying we did it. David Stearns, your daddy.

You did it, brother. Today, no bueno. Not feeling good. That's all I'm going to say about it. Okay. Thank you for enduring that. You're welcome. Would you like to talk about Jay Kelly?

Yes. Okay, let's discuss it. So, as I said, written and directed by Noel Baumack, his first film since White Noise. It's co-written with Emily Mortimer, the first time they've collaborated together. Emily Mortimer, you know, established actress and also a writer in her own right,

wrote Dollenham, the HBO series some years back. The film is shot by Lena Sandgren, music by Nicholas Bertel, some new collaborators here for Bomback on this film. It stars George Clooney as the titular Jay, Adam Sandler, Laura Dern, Billy Cruttup, a cavalcade of, I would say, Elevated cameos from well-known actors and actresses in the world.

The story is thus. A famous aging movie star facing a midlife crisis, navigating regret, and his fractured family relationships while on an impromptu European journey with his manager after his daughter leaves for college, exploring themes of identity, legacy, and the gap between public persona and private life. Is that an adequate encomium of what this film is? Yes. Okay. I think it is in some ways.

No, it's correct. It's also just a road trip buddy comedy. And I think in a series of vignettes in some ways with the through line of what it is to be a movie star or a father. But yeah, good log line. Great job. Is it a good movie? I am completely flummoxed by this movie. I have seen it twice now.

I fought to get to the Venice premiere, the world premiere of Jay Kelly, because, Really, nothing is more important to me than a new Noah Baumbach film. You and I have been living for waiting for this movie since it was announced. George Clooney, starring in a Noah Baumbach movie set in Europe, is also pretty high bar in terms of my personal expectations and interests. About Hollywood. Yes. So I was as ready as ready could be. And I saw it in Venice.

And you know, you saw it at Telluride shortly thereafter. We talked about it. And then briefly, but we're like, we'll wait and see. You were mixed at the time, and I liked it with some notes. I watched it again in the comfort of my home by the light of the Christmas tree. And I want to like it so much more than I do. I think it's a real mess. I don't understand about half of it.

And there's a lot to like in it, obviously. I like most of the performances. I like the subject matter. I like Europe. I think that it's an interesting visual departure for Bomback. And, you know, he's out of rooms in New York City and into the world and in his bag and experimenting a bit. And I just, I don't think that it comes together in any real way. Specifically for me, you know, there are kind of two main thrust of the movie.

There's the Jay Kelly, who is the movie star played by George Clooney, and there is his relationship with his daughters and what he has given up to be a movie star and, you know, the tradeout, work-life balance, if you will. Truly, that's literally what it is. Familiar to all the mamas out there. Yeah. And the fathers. Yeah, sure. And then this year, I guess, you guys just learned about work-life balance this year, which we'll come back to. We had to get through COVID to be able to make art about it.

But we've always known. Okay. That's me. Just want you to know that. And then there is another storyline which is about just the more industry specific, right? And it's the relationship between Jake Kelly and his manager, played by Adam Sandler. And then, you know, there's like the entourage surrounding Jake Kelly. And there are some good inside, you know, jokes or at least observations.

It's born of... That's the word. It's observations. Right. Well, yeah. That's also the problem. But it's clearly born of experiences and, you know, a life-lived making movies, both for Noah Baumbach and Emily Mortimer. But I really don't feel that the two storylines come together very cleanly at all. And I think the second storyline is pretty undercooked and doesn't get. get enough room to really bring home emotionally what's going on. So the idea of the relationships between these people in the orbit of Jay Kelly and making sense of, okay, so it's interesting that you frame it that way. I probably feel in the inverse. Okay.

I think I feel that the family story, while seemingly quite true and an interesting idea to explore, is not as elegantly or interestingly could. communicated to me because I think that that is the side of the story that has a lot of melodrama and sincerity. And that is something that is not Bomback's calling card. He's not, he, family dynamics isn't his calling card. Right. But people at an emotional remove with the kind of like the blankness of the J. Kelly character, he's usually, he has much more tenacious characters. He writes really sharp, hard, tough, biting characters. He's the best at that, honestly. When When his movies are going and two people are yelling at each other or not yelling but they want to yell, he's incredible at communicating that kind of angst. Jay Kelly, the reason why I like the second half and not the first half is that his blankness is what sells the second half.

That the movie doesn't conclude because he is still just Jay Kelly at the end of the movie. He's still just the movie star who is ultimately significantly more important, both in a practical, financial, you know, structural way and also in a social dynamics way where like there's no way to really change once you have become a big movie star how you exist in the world and how everyone feels around you.

And so I find that when characters are talking about him, the movie makes sense. When he's talking to other characters it makes a little bit less sense because he is this like ineffable thing the same way we're like, what even is Tom Cruise?

What even is George Clooney? They try to communicate some humanity and their interviews and in their public-facing personas. But they've kind of like exited the same existence that we have, which I think is what Bomback is trying to get at, is that there's this like rare class of alien that lives among us. And they make all these sacrifices and they hurt people around them to get where they get.

And then they get to the end. And no one can really love them in the way that they want to be loved. But everyone feels like they need them because of the system that they sought to succeed. succeed. So it's a very odd framework for a movie by placing the Kelly character right at the center

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Plus, Coca-Cola is back with Canada's kindest community, celebrating acts of kindness nationwide with chance at 100,000 donation for the winning community and a 2026 holiday caravan stop. Learn more at canadaswunderland.com. It's a movie that is more interested in everybody's relationship to him than what's going on inside him, except then it builds a large part of the architecture of the film as flashbacks where George Clooney as contemporary, like, you know, real time Jake Kelly. is watching flashbacks of his own life with very emotional faces, you know,

as if he has, like, regret and other... And, you know, I don't even think Clooney's bad in this. I think he might be very good. I am very moved by the act of watching George Clooney, the movie star, have feelings on camera. Like, that still works. And the movie does sort of try to use it. But I agree that it's more effective when it's other people,

relating to him the problem then is that there are too many people relating to him and so pretty much everything is is very thin

like even the you know there's a climactic scene between the what is the name of Adam Sandler's manager character Ron Ron that's right

and Jay that is like sort of doing Godfather too but But I was like, this is not the godfather, too. You guys are just kind of like yelling at each other after doing, you know, I don't, I don't understand why you're that mad. There's not a lot of tension. That is the thing.

There's not a lot of tension. And so, at least in the other half, the tension is kind of, you know, elemental. So you can understand it. That's a fair point, right? Like the loss of connection to a daughter is a much more easily explainable kind of like plot thread than this guy's manager feels that they're not friends. And is that really a crisis? Right. It's tricky because, one, there's like a long tradition of movies like this, right?

There's like Bergman's Wild Strawberries is this, eight and a half is this. You know, it's a wonderful life as a version of this where somebody looks back on their life or what could have been. And then they examine the choices that they've made and they use that flashback structure where you can kind of walk right into the reality of the past. And it's cool to see Bomback do that. It's cool to see him do it with someone like Lena Sandgren. you know, like this movie looks very different from all of his other movies. It's much more visually elevated.

I think one of the problems of the movie is that the movie very early on is telling you what's happening, which is that there's this encounter after the funeral of a close friend of Clooney's who was a mentor and a filmmaker played by Jim Broadbent. He dies early on in the movie.

They go to the funeral, outside the funeral, waiting for them seemingly on purpose, but though it's never communicated, it's meant to be a random encounter. Is an old friend named Tim. who was in acting class and an acting buddy of J. Kelly as a young man.

Billy Credit plays Tim. You know, they make nice, they make chit-chat, and then they go to get a drink together. You know, the J. Kelly character doesn't go into public too often. You can tell he doesn't fraternize too often in ways like this.

You can see that because of the energy that Ron is communicating. So then Tim and Jay have this drink and they're remembering old times and they're talking. Jay is so admiring of Tim's great talents as an actor, even though he never made it as a

star. He went on to become a child therapist. He gets Crudup to do this performance of reading the menu, right? Where he like taps into his method. Sure. And Crutup kind of takes over the movie for five minutes. It's a very impressive performance. It got applause at the premiere in Venice. Yes. Actors love it. It kind of just takes it. It lifts the movie for a minute because it's kind of a shambling movie. Yeah. Through the first 15 minutes or so. And then it becomes clear that Tim actually doesn't think back fondly on Jay. In fact, he feels that Jay stole his life and becomes a very tense situation. They have this sort of encounter

where they're leaving the bar after getting into an argument. And Tim reveals that he has already built a relationship with Jay's older daughter, who we later find out as played by Riley Keogh. And he tells Jay

that she describes him as an empty vessel. And I think the movie wants you to think that's true. That Jay Kelly is an empty vessel. And he essentially is. It's not that he doesn't have a soul, it's that he has been performing the act of being J. Kelly for so long, which is to say

you could never make a mistake in public. You always have to be smiling. Whenever a stranger approaches you, you cannot ruin the image you've worked so hard to protect. And that doing this and being this person, while it is the most privileged place in the universe, kills yourself, kills your soul, kills your identity, and makes you a nothing. And then the only thing that you really have is this thing that you've been doing for decades, this thing you've been protecting. I don't know if that is a dynamic enough idea to support a movie with tension like you're describing. Yeah. Well, does what I'm saying make sense to you? Yes, it does. And, I mean, and, like, and it's there in the, the script that it's setting up, you're going to, that, that sentence

also sets up, like, the therapist that you see later. Like, in some ways, it is very tightly written. But I don't know whether it's the way that it's executed. whether like the tone or whether it's bringing in something else emotionally where there is in addition to those all like pretty sharp bomb-back observations about a successful person who is flawed and has failed others and is coming to terms with that or is being faced with that. In like ugly ways, there's all. also this lightness and sense of charm to his life, which, like, is charmed.

And it's, I guess it is communicating, okay, like movie stars lived a charmed life. But also there's a sense of wonder to almost everything that happens and everything he runs through that, like, runs counter to that ugliness and sort of undermines it. And so the next thing that happens after the Billy Crittup character says that he's been in with Clooney's daughter is that they have a, like, a quote-unquote fight, and the Uber driver is recording it. And it's very, it is funny, but it's played for slapstick. It's not ugly. It's not, this is a person in crisis. This is, you know, and I guess maybe you're looking at the Uber driver recording and thinking, hmm, that's going to end up on TMZ. But even in

the way it's communicated, it's just, it's kind of farcical. Let me ask you a question. Yeah. If they had swapped Brad Pitt with George Clooney in this movie, but it had felt different. Probably. Because Clooney, who can mug effectively, who's a very comic performer, and if in the right hands, like the Coen Brothers, for example, can really do what you're describing, that kind of lightness, that farcical quality. And some of the farcical stuff, I think, hurts this movie. I think this movie is at its best when it is, when we're seeing Ron in Pain directly.

Yes. When we're seeing Riley Keough, or the younger daughter, whose name escapes me, the actress, his name escapes me who we saw in Astrid City when we see them really struggling and maybe that's just because I don't know Bomback writes funny stuff like while we're young is funny

like it's not that he doesn't know how to write with that comic sensibility but Clooney's goofball lane the movie kind of glides into a little bit where there's a lot of like antique bubbly characters entering his orbit

and when the movie is that it's daffiest is when I'm least interested in it I agree yeah But I do think that there is something, you know what, your mileage is going to vary because if you don't really have empathy for somebody who's living the extraordinarily privileged lifestyle of a Jay Kelly,

if you can't get your head around this person's struggle, so to speak, it's just going to be a hard movie for you to enjoy. And it is a movie made by somebody who's been working in movies for a very long time who has access to people like Jay Kelly, whose wife is an extraordinarily famous and successful person. You know, they're coming off of the crazy success of Barbie. Academy Award nominations, a billion dollars at the box office.

So these are like very elevated concerns. I don't know, but in the world of like literature and characterization, don't you want to see people whose lives you've never seen before, whose lives we don't understand closely explored? I found that stuff pretty interesting. Obviously, I do also love movies and I love the idea of stardom. I'm interested in that idea deeply. Well, you know, but so am I.

And I think I do want to see it portrayed and even explored. I would argue that this movie portrays it but does not explore it. And so you get the funny moments of everyone on the train being like, there's no third class. It's 50 days before Easter. It's a very important holiday and the TMs. You get some of the imaginations, like the team at work,

but then just as quickly it's over and half of the team disappears. And through it all, Jay Kelly, as George Clooney is just kind of walking through it, pretty charmed and unbothered. And also, he's okay. Like the punchline to the whole TMZ bar fight video story is that he then performs another viral video interaction with locals. And that's the one that winds up posted and he's portrayed as a hero. And I understand that's supposed to be the contrast between, like, that interaction is very weird, but also slightly more nuanced because the bag thief, you know, has, um, has some issues, but so he's like, I'm not really a hero, but I'm a hero, but like it was all posted on the internet, so it's fine. So there are, you know, not even any, you know, repercussions within the idea of movie star, it pulls its punch.

Is maybe. I think that it's just that when you are that person, the preservation of the false self is everything. You know, it's just that is an idea that I understood and I like liked seeing him explore, especially because the people who are around him have a different relationship to him, especially the kind of professional people at this stage where the J. Kelly character is like 60, early 60s. And he's obviously on the downside as a star, but still is enormously famous. Pretty much, probably a one-to-one with George Clooney in terms of his stature. And the lore during character

plays Liz, his publicist. Right. It's this kind of interesting avatar of like, I'm over it. Like, it ain't what it used to be. You know, she's really kind of burnt out on dealing with the bullshit, dealing with the frivolity

and the impulsiveness of a star. Right. And having to navigate that and having logged many years of traipsing around the world, following after this person, not being treated with respect, not getting invited to party,

but having to do all the hard, heavy lifting of managing the person's life. Whereas the Ron character, the Adam Sandler character, well, I don't know, you know, I'm obviously in the bag for Sandler, and I think he's become a very deft, dramatic actor. But I really found his performance heartbreaking in this movie.

And I, you know, we've had friends who are managers, tell us that's not what a manager does, and we can talk about that. But at least in the world of this movie, what he sees as his role in life and the lack of recognition of the role that he played, is the status that he has alongside this person he's worked with for so long

and fought for for so long because we know in this world he's got to like yell at people on the phone and fight really hard and make space for the person that he's just not returned in kind like nothing, he's never going to be

one quarter of a person let alone an equal to somebody like Jay and I thought Sinclair communicated that very well and of course that's funny because as Noah told me when I talked to him like Sandler is J. Kelly too.

Yeah. Sandler is frankly Adam Sandler is bigger than George Clooney like he may not have the same iconography in the history of American movies but he's way more successful in terms of what he's been able to build as a star and there's something interesting about him

as an actor being forced to tap into that mentality too it is very humanizing so I don't know when you take the big broad idea elevated style and the sandler performance I come out liking the movie it's definitely not perfect

yeah it's definitely got some mess I want to clarify that I I think Adam Sandler is very good in the movie. I don't understand that character at all. Or I do, but again, I think it's like, it's pretty one note. He doesn't get a ton of room to explore what's going on. I think some of the efforts at characterization are just frustrating. Like, respectfully, they could have served out the father-daughter match before he left, you know?

But it's like, and there are some things in that where I really did catch on the specificities. And I'm like, well, no, no, no, no, that doesn't even make sense within this world. So, I, I just don't think that the character gets enough room to really pay off that confrontation on the, on the dance floor. And it, you know, the ending, the very tender moment of them at the very end is sweet. On the road. Yeah. Oh, no, I was going to say after they're on the road when they're doing, you know, each other's makeup and bow tie. And, you know, and that's very sweet.

And that's reconciliation of we weren't really friends. And now we have each other. And that's Bill and CR. That's what they did. Yeah, I know. That's the true love story, you know. But it's sort of like that's the like Glinda and Alphaba of this movie, you know. I like, and I had that moment three courts away in.

And I was like, oh, this is the love story. And that's nice. But like, did we earn it? I, you know, I don't know. I don't know. I felt like they did. One of the tricky things about it is with the daughter's, like what's done is done.

Like he just wasn't there and you just can't fix it. And as you know, you're a grudge holder. Like, your grudge holders, no. Like, if you ain't there, if you, if you didn't fix it at the time, you can't fix it with kids. Right. And that that's going to haunt him and it's especially going to haunt them. The whole movie is kind of a haunting, right? And I think maybe he had like shifted some of that farce a little bit.

You could be like a much more, an actually more Bergman-esque kind of film where it's like it is the series of like ghostly encounter. with the past instead of something that is trying to balance a kind of fizzy Netflix comedy with some of the more interior exploration. But as is, I liked it for the most part. You asked

an interesting question here, which is, is this a good George Clooney performance? Yeah. And I don't really know. There's one moment that rang really false to me that I can tell you about. Yes, go ahead. When he's in the bathroom on the train and he's doing the recitation of Jay Kelly, Clark

Gabriel, Gary Cooper, Gary Grant. And he's, like, situating himself and almost, like, he's created a mantra to calm himself and also to question himself and figure out where he kind of, like, what he is and who he is. Yeah. I just didn't really understand. Like, I just got as I didn't buy that very much. Everything that was going on with him on the train was absolutely bizarre to me when he's suddenly making friends with everyone on the train.

And I imagine this is written as some sort of, I don't know whether it's like, you know, like whimsical set piece and you've got 45 different people on the train and everyone. And it has one of kind of the key lines of the movie thematically, which is like when I look at you, I see my whole life, right? But he's really hamming it up on that, in that train scene and he's like, you all come to Italy. I'm just like, what are you? I feel like it's him performing humanity, which he doesn't really have, which is like, it's a funny idea. It's a funny idea. You're right that it doesn't always click.

It just doesn't click. On the page, I can see it. 100%. Like, you know, and you see the signposts in the dialogue and in what they were going for. And I'm just like, this didn't really land. And I don't know whether that's the Clooney performance. I don't know whether it's that, you know, the marrying of tones. Because there is, there are a few scenes that are more dark, bomb-back family confrontations.

There's a great family therapy. scene. Josh Hamilton is unbelievable in this movie. It's just always so nice when you see Josh Hamilton pop up in any film but in a bomb back film. And then the scene in the woods also with the Riley Keough character. Well, she's got some bracing dialogue. Which Clooney is like running towards very Michael Clayton-esque also and he's not one

of our great movie star runners which is also very funny and you're reminded of that. But I, you know, I was taken back to the Michael Clayton of it all. And, I mean, that scene is maybe slightly more broadly written than a typical bombback, you know, than the really gnarly parts of squid and the whale. But it's tough and it's true. And it's direct and straightforward. And I was like, I understand the tension here. I understand the stakes. You know, and when she says to him, like, I'll be like, I'll have a good life, just not with you.

I mean, that's some brutal stuff. Yeah, I think there's a handful of lines in this movie that are really, really elegant, clean daggers. Like when Laura Dern's character is getting ready to leave the train, because her colleague's cat has eaten a screw, which is a funny detail. Before she leaves, she says to Ron Sandler's character, we're not to him what he is to us. You know, in my life, I've been in the presence of, like, some extremely famous and successful people. And this is something to think about. Like, you, people who are incredibly successful, they do kind of exit the realm of normality. And I think the movie has some, like, really, it does have some observational comedy, but a lot of it is sharp.

It's not all, it's not, I'm not trying to say it's, you know, a magical five out of five masterpiece. So isn't that funny is the thing. It's more like chuckle funny as opposed to like, oh, that's clever. How do you feel about Noah Baumbach being in like his late style period? I don't mind sentimental Noah Baumbach. Like I was up here yelling at you about Francis Ha. No, I was yelling at you. That was your choice.

And you made it. And there was an episode coming out on December 31st. Your choice was Lady Bird at all costs. I really, I can't get into this with you. But we love Francis Ha. I'm so angry. I actually, well, I'll save it. I'll save what I was going to say

for another episode at another time when you and I are even happier together when we're doing even better than we are right now. And I think... I'm so tired. You'll have 11 more episodes this month. And also just like just like waiting around all day

for you being done with your stupid Zoom meetings. I have a lot to do. Get your shit done. Like you actually don't. Just hang up. the Zoom call. You don't have to talk to these people. No, I'm needed. I'm needed. This is, well, that's why you relate to the out of Sanler character. They don't need you on the Zoom. Go live your life. I know. I wish I could. I wish I could. I'm just trying to keep

everything on its feet. You wouldn't know about that. You wouldn't know. I know. Because I'm just, I'm living my own life. I'm on the train. I'm the younger daughter. Okay. That's right. Also, that's seen. Yeah, Gigi and I are going to Sicily to make a movie. That's beautiful. I know you guys love cinema. That's seen all. And also I found very effective where he, where his younger daughter shares with him after he is, like, basically phone tracked her to France that she wants to be an actress. Right. That even though she's very gifted in science and is very intelligent, that she wants to pursue a life in the arts. And Clooney is.

Even though she's very intelligent, she wants to pursue a life. Well, come on. No, it's like that she has options. It's that she has options and that her father has done this and she doesn't have to do this, but she has a call. Yeah. Or, or, because she says it, let's see, and I know you always thought Jessica was the real actor, but I can do it too. So she's supposed to prove something to him. Yeah.

Yeah, that's possible, too. I mean, I'm sure it's a combination of both, right? But his reaction, to me, that this is Clooney's best part, like performance in the film. He's doing great work in that scene. Yes, that scene is really, really strong to me. And his kind of, like, sadness and, like, immediately trying to encourage her away from it. Yeah. And, like, that forces a kind of self-recognition about what it has cost him to do this and the absence in her life.

And that kind of, like, very funny, matter-of-fact style that daughters and fathers sometimes have. Literally, we've just seen this like five times this year in movies. But it's a really, another really good example of that sort of thing. I don't know. This movie's pretty interesting. I mean, it has some good scenes. That's a good scene. He's very good in the therapy scene.

Yes. He's very good in that scene in the woods. And then I think the ending, at least the cinema tribute ending... Let's talk about it. Okay, all right. So the film ends and spoilers for Jay Kelly. I mean, it's been on Netflix for five days, and I think a lot of people have seen it if they really want to.

But this hit in every review when the film came out. The film ends dramatically with this tribute to Jay Kelly, which his character has been kind of moving towards an Italy throughout the entirety of the film. And finally, the film ends on him. watching his life in the movies on screen and then cutting back to his reaction to watching his life in the movies. Now, I think a lot of people really like this. And it sounds like you really liked it. I did. I was a little bit more mixed on it. Can I tell you why? Yeah, go ahead.

It was kind of a reminder of the mixed nature of George Cooney's career. But I thought that was a clever part of that. Like, Jay Kelly is not Brad Pitt. I know it knows that, but it kind of disassembled the idea. Or maybe it elevated it. Maybe it made it smarter. This is not, like, you know, an honorary Oscar. This is a made-up award in Tuscany where they actually refashion a second glass sculptural popcorn box or something. Right, right. That's the prize. So it's not, I don't think it's supposed to be a tribute to the, like, true heights of cinema.

It's just very funny to see clips from the peacemaker and leatherheads and the tribute deal. I mean, I agree. And I'm sure that's knowing on Bomback's part, you know, there's something funny about it not just being. You know, traffic and Siriana and the Oceans films And the films he's really well known for But it And maybe that is the idea The idea is that it was like, and for what?

For five iconic movies Five movies people really like Five movies that are cool, five movies that bombed And five movies you've forgotten about And then that's your life. Yeah. And I guess that's interesting. I'm not sure if it quite like

It didn't hit us hit home It was hard for me personally. I mean, to me, it was an illustration of the, like, when I look at you, if I see, I see my life because you remember all of those points. And it's, you know, it's an argument against the film, Jay Kelly, in a lot of ways that that just, you could have just shown that montage. And I was like, oh, great, I get it, you know? Like, sort of.

Yeah. Yeah. And I was just thinking about the ending of Babylon, which is, like, you know, maybe a similar, like, oh. Also shop by Lena Sandgren. Yeah, exactly. It's like, oh, okay, like, I get it. But I did find myself emotionally connected to that more than I was at any other point in the film. Rare W for montages from you. Love to hear it.

And I think Clooney responding to it is, he's good in that moment and it's making me feel what I'm supposed to feel. But I'm not thinking about his, like, relationship with Ron or even his daughters in that moment. I guess I'm thinking about... That's the whole thing, though. Well, I know. Then it goes to the... Sure. This is an exercise in narcissism this whole career.

Yeah. But then it cuts to what is finally playing in his tribute reel and what sets up the last line, which, you know, is good writing. And Noah Baumbach and Natalie Mortimer are good at writing. Is like an imagination, like an imagined memory or one last flashback of his daughters putting on the plays that they both reference in the earlier in the film. And listen, Yassi Salix saw this before me and pointed out the inconsistency, but it is really hard to get past that they are, they are 18 years apart in age, and that's said multiple times.

Their ages are noted, like specifically in the film multiple times because he even says, I've been doing this for 35 years, and she says, I'm 34 and a half. You know, it's like, it's all built in. But then they're suddenly on screen in the most emotional moment doing this play together and they're the exact same age. I don't understand. So then I got taken out of that moment, too. It's messy.

Yeah. So I guess just none of the flights of fancy and it work for me. Does the line reading connect for you at all, Sean? Because when I was watching it, I wasn't overwhelmed emotionally and by any stretch with the actual montage. But when Clooney actually reads the line, it kind of hit me like a truck. Honestly, no There are other moments in the movie that do hit me

But for whatever reason That part didn't I think it proved its point But didn't move me I was much more moved by Ron I thought that that whole Discursive journey into this guy Who's like

I feel like I'm doing the right thing And I feel like I'm helping And making something successful And we're doing it together Yeah It's just like I've not really seen that character before It's true And I just really like Sandler's performance.

And I think that the Jay-A. Kelly thing is like, if you like the movie or don't like the movie, it's like it'll be either a success of the design or a failure of the design where it's like, this is a guy who's not really about anything. He's just about himself. And that to do this well, you kind of have to be all about yourself at all costs. It doesn't make you not a human being, but it makes you, I think, a little bit less of an engaged person. And he knows it. You know, like there's an interesting moment early in the movie where he,

I guess, I don't even know if this is happening in real time or if it's a flashback as I think back on it, but when he's meeting with Peter in his kitchen. Flashback. And Peter has come to him and he said he wants him to come do his last movie. He wants to do two movies in a row before, you know, he wants to get back on track. This is the man who's giving him his big break.

Including it's just like, it can't do it. Yeah. It can't do it. Pickles don't expire. Yes. Another great piece of right. It's great, I mean, it's great writing. A lot of great lines in the movie.

Yeah. He knows when he's saying no to Peter. he thinks he's doing like the responsible thing. Yeah. He's like, I'm protecting my brand. I'm protecting my... He just, he's like, I can't do it. It's not, you know, he's, he's pretty dismissive and puts the, like, the football arm out, like, very quickly.

Yeah. Yeah, which is something that we just saw another version of this where Stellant Scarzgard's character and Sentimental Value and he goes back to talk with his former cinematographer, you know, and sentimental value and this movie are very much in conversation with each other, or at least incidentally in conversation with each other, you know, when he goes back and he thinks he's going to work with this longtime cinematographer, but in watching him move around his own apartment realizes that he's gotten old and he's moving more slowly and that he is himself like this, this reminder of their age together and what they've done together. And I like both of those scenes in both of those movies, but Stellant Scarsgaard's character does get to redeem himself

and I'm not sure that Jay Kelly redeems himself at all and I don't know that you have to do that but if you're not going to redeem the character I think the movie needs to be a little bit darker and meaner you know what I mean? I agree I mean that is the thing

where it like it wants to be mean about this person but then it has Alba Rohracher coming in to talk about like you know the power of Italy and by the way I thought she was very funny and great in this. She got a big big applause and tell your eye as well.

Yeah I'm like very very amused by it, but it has all of these, like, silly. Yeah. It's like zany-felini homage in the middle of an otherwise, like, sad movie about a depressed 62-year-old multimillionaire. Yeah. Okay, cool. Jay Kelly. Academy Awards?

Seems like no. I said it's pretty fair. Seems like, I mean, you know, obviously the film was not nominated for best. I assume it was slotted into comedy or musical in the Golden Globes. I would assume. And did not make it there. No. Clooney did get nominated.

Yes, as did Sandler. And Sandler. I don't think Clooney is competitive and best actor. I could be wrong about that because he is a huge star and is an avatar of Hollywood greatness. But the movies seems to have had a mixed reception thus far. He was on the New Heights podcast, so. Right. Absolutely.

For sure, listen to that. I just watched him do a clip about how he never fights with his wife. and then Travis Kelsey confirms that he also doesn't fight with Taylor Swift how nice how believable that's great yeah yeah I'm sure these guys are really happy um

Sandler yeah I love Adam Sandler Sandler is running into the one battle buzzsaw yeah in terms of the awards race I think after he was not nominated for uncut gems there became this like newfound awareness I remember he gave that incredible

independent film awards, Spirit Award speech. And he was in Hustle and people really liked Hustle. And obviously he's had a tremendous number of huge comedy hits, but also in recent years, like some dramatic performances that people that have gotten good notices. And so I definitely thought in like January when we were talking about the most anticipated movies of the year, I was like, this just kind of seems like it's the Sandler,

Oscar, written all over it. We also thought that this was going to be, you know, Bomback finally makes his movie about Hollywood for like Netflix. gives the people what they want and then, you know, 2025 happened. It did. It sure did.

And then Frankenstein took its spot. Frankenstein or New Velvog? I mean, New Velvag is not going to be nominated. I mean, Traindreams is the movie that has probably slid into the Jay Kelly spot. That's not done with. We've got a long time to talk about what's going to happen over the next couple of months.

But I'm curious about the same other thing. I do think he will be nominated for an Academy Award. You do? I do. I do. I don't think he will win. because there's two one battle performers in there

Stellan Scars Guard is in there Paul Meskell is in there there's a number of strong competitive names in the mix but I don't know we'll see we'll see what he does he's already done an event

with Timothy Shalamay yeah you know probably more events to come Sandler is very charming in these atmospheres I've done stuff like this with him I did a couple things with him during uncut gems

and he's just like magic like if there's just like a dead air moment he's like I got this you know he just is really really good at campaigning and meeting people Was it last year's Oscars that he also saved? Yeah, I think not saved, but he was one of the major highlights just in the audience being like, Shalabay! You know?

Yes, yes. He's wherever he goes. Yeah. So his career. Do you remember the first time that you saw him? Absolutely. Hanukkah song. Oh, yeah.

Okay. The video or on SNL? Probably. Well, I think it's probably the first time I heard him because you better believe that played a Hollywood radio. Yeah. But then I must have gotten like... Huge Z-100 hit.

Sure, but I must have gotten like the long cut because like drink your gin and tonica and smoke your marijuana is, you know, engraved in my head. Yeah, yeah. That was on the second album. That was not on the first album, right? First albums, they're all going to laugh at you. Okay. Which I probably listened to 48,000 times. Yeah.

So I... Tom Cruise isn't, but I heard it. His age, it is. He was on remote control on MTV in the 80s from 87 to 90. I definitely watched remote control. He was like Stud Boy. He was like the Van of White of that show in some way, which is like a kind of trivia game show on MTV.

I'm sure I saw him. I didn't really clock him on that show. I did watch a lot of MTV from like 1987 through 1989. SNL. He's not SNL from 1990 to 90 to 90. 1995. At the time, this was a hugely derided cast that has now gone on to be like some of the most successful people in Hollywood.

This is like the tail end of the Mike Myers-Dena Carviera. And then you've got Chris Rock, Chris Farley, David Spade, Rob Schneider, Adam Sandler, you know, all of his homies, all of the people that he has still kind of kept in the mix. He debuts all of his singing gags on the show at that. that time and then uses that show after he's fired off the show in 1995 him and chris farley were all fired off of saturday night live that was the saturday night dead new york magazine cover sure um starts putting out music and starts making movies 95 i mean let's is there anything we want to say about what he is before we start going through the hall of fame i mean i was i was

speaking through like some of his success i think it's a little bit maybe undersung well just like In terms of pure box office power, we've forgotten about it because he's been making Netflix movies for the last 10 years. You know, the Western that he made, what is it called? Like the... Shoot.

The ridiculous six was 2015. And that was the start of this big relationship with Netflix. But before that, he had 21 movies that have made more than $100 million at the World Wide Box Office. So that's just 21 movies. Basically, like in the late 90s, 2000s all the way up to 2015 there's like very few actors who can say that they are that

present in movies now i don't even really like most of those movies so i'm not trying to say that that equates to quality but the ones that you do like really like yeah yes and he has a presence outside of i mean he can be in the worst movie and just make his voice sound a certain way yes and he can make his voice sound certain right i mean he is like one of our great vocalists both like singing but in terms of what he can do with his voice to make you laugh that is singular like among living people

I would say to our generation at least because we are so trained on the 90s of just him doing like eh you know and you just it's Pavlovian just to laugh yeah I should have thought about how I could do this entire pot in his voice and his sheepity do

so he's like obviously in this big tradition of like smart dumb stars right where every character he plays is kind of an idiot it, but you're really rooting for him. There's, you know, Buster Keaton, Jerry Lewis, Steve Martin, over and over again, this is like a model for building an American movie star. And I think he's very kind of underestimated because he's made so many super silly movies. And the movies at the beginning of his career just got really bad critical notices. But if you were 13 when those movies came out, they were the best movies of all time. And they're still among my favorite

movies of all time. They're absolutely going into the Hall of Fame. No, I know. I'm not, frankly, we wouldn't even debate it if you said no I would still overrule you on those facts I think the point is though this is like every generation has their person where I wonder if a 14 year old watched Billy Madison right now would they like it as much as I liked it as a kid maybe they would Jack Billy Madison

thumbs up thumbs up okay that's nice to hear I don't know if that will continue to be true for him but at the time him and Jim Carrey were like gods to me they were like gods to me they were the funniest people in the universe and his energy was very different from Jim Carrey's. Jim Carrey was manic. Adam Sandler was angry, and there's a difference.

Adam Sandler could be silly, Jim Carrey could be silly. You know, they both could be outrageous. But one was crazy and one was mad. And they were like an interesting pairing. Now, those two guys specifically were like kind of sort of replaced by a lot of guys who were inspired by those two guys with the whole Aptovian slash Will Ferrell, Adam McKill, world that came in in the 2000s, but I would suggest that his comedy in the 90s,

his comedy movies are actually underrated now? Probably, though many of them have been remade and or sequels too. You know, we are leading the reappraisal, the reclaiming of the high arts of comedy. And I did also, even that Timothy Chalemay, Adam Sandler appearance, I did watch Timothy Shalemate doing his like

Dream Big greatness as real speech about Big Daddy. So like it's I think that I think that we are taking it seriously. Well that that raises one other thing that Sandler had that Jim Carrey did not really have, which was that Sandler was kind of a heartthrob, you know, that he could very credibly be the romantic lead opposite Drew Barrymore or Jennifer Aniston in a movie. Right. And he did it over and over again. You could make the case that those are actually his much more successful movie.

It's not his super silly boy comedies. It's, you know, you're 50 first dates. That those are the movies that he may even be remembered for, you know, just go with it. You know, like those movies, which I don't like as much, but like when the wedding singer happened, that's the movie that kind of changed his career. You know, that really changed the trajectory of what kind of a star he could be. So he's just, it's just one of my faves. Yeah, he's a national treasure. He is a national treasure.

I think he, and I, he's another one who we were talking about this with Leo this year. Like, I really appreciate that he wants to work with the safeties and wants to, you know, he's made some movies recently that don't work. Like Spaceman, the Johann Rank movie that was on Netflix a couple years ago that like, I didn't really care for it all. And I don't think we talked about on the show. But I like that he tried it. You know, I like that he used his powers to do something interesting, that he found interesting. So. I also like that he wants to work with his friends.

in beautiful places around the world. That's a great life philosophy. Yeah. That's why we're moving this show to Tulum. No, we can't, no. They don't even. Excited, Jack? Yeah.

It's, Toulom's done. No. Where are we going? Hawaii. Hawaii? Yeah. Yeah. Okay, now we're talking.

There we go. Which island? To Lume, you can't even flush the toilet paper. They maxed out the grid. They're not respecting the people. They maxed out the grid. Yeah. I mean, and the people really overran and ruined Touloum.

The American people? Primarily, yeah. I mean, I think there's sort of like an international glitterati aspect to it. You know, the yoga, the yogi influencers of the world. I've never been to Loon. I've not seen it. I went once and then we didn't understand that it was on a different time zone than Cancun. So we almost missed our flight back.

And that was one of the worst fights that my husband and I have ever had. But we're here. Let's talk about it. Let's talk more of like what was said. Get into it. You want to do the Hall of Fame? anything else you want to say about Sandler? No, I think

we can do it during the during the Hall of Fame. Will this be easy? I don't think it will be challenging. I don't think there will be like a knife fight. I hope not. Did you know what his five most successful movies are at the box office? No. I didn't know that he was even in. Well, no, I looked

at it and I was like, what is Hotel Transylvania? Well, his top three movies at the box office are Hotel Transylvania 3, Hotel Transylvania 2, and Hotel Transylvania. I'm glad you asked. I just watched Hotel Transylvania, the first installment for the first time with my daughter. Oh, okay. And it's a movie about a family of monsters that owns a hotel.

Okay. He plays Dracula. Oh. Dracula has a complicated relationship with his daughter, Mavis. Ah. How did you feel Adam Sandler's interpretation of Dracula worked in the context? One note, but effective?

Okay. Yeah. So would it go in your... I want to suck your blog. Would it go in the Dracula Hall of Fame? after the fact. Who's Dracula Hall? Yours that you and Rob Mahoney made for like...

Hotel Transylvania didn't come up. Well... Should we call Rob? Yeah. Make an addendum. The other... The next two films in his box office list are grownups and grownups too. Yes.

So this is a man who's making his own IP. Spinoffs and sequels galore. All right. So the poster for grownups is Adam Sandler and a bunch of men going on a tube down a water slide at a water park. I've seen it. I've seen the film. No, no, no. but you said on the Avatar podcast that you've never been like tube you've been tubing down a river but you've never been tubing behind a boat correct but I have been tubing at a water park you have many times okay I just wanted to get this on the record when I was growing up there was a water park to inflatable tubes a long island called splish splash sure been a splash a great many times it's a miracle I did not contract a disease there that is actually why I was very infrequently allowed yeah at a splish splash my parents read a little

Too many, like consumer reports. Yeah, it seemed like a very dangerous experience. There was an incredible slide, though, called Shotgun Falls. Man, had some good times on that slide. Anyway, moving on. Adam Sandler. Yeah. First film Going Overboard, has a small role in the movie.

He plays a character named Shecky Moskowitz. That's not going it. He also has a small role in the Bobcat Goldweight movie Shakes the Clown. He plays Dink the Clown. Obviously not going in. 1993 cone heads Did you get the coneheads 4K from Kino Lorber? At this point I have to start doing

reaction shots for Alex Ross Perry for like his super cut or whatever I think he wants visuals as well as me and just being like no I didn't Did you get it, Sean? I didn't get it but you know what I'd like to own it This is a movie that I watched on HBO all the time It's obviously a like 14, 18 years later

movie adaptation of two very famous characters that Dan Akron and Jane Curtin played on Saturday Night Live. Now, one thing I want to note about this movie, I've talked about this woman before because we did a Daze and Confused and Michelle Burke, who was in Dazed and Confused, and stars as the daughter of the Conan. She's Connie Conehead. I want to say she's Adam, is Adam Sandler her love interest in the movie? I can't remember for sure. He might be. Michelle Burke had, she had the juice. Yeah. I don't know where she is. I I hope she's doing well. Okay.

She had the juice. It's important to identify this and, you know, honor people's contributions to your childhood. So that's beautiful. This film is red. It's not going in. All right. I'm okay with that. Have you seen airheads?

Not in at least 20 years. I didn't revisit it for this. Now, I did love it. I did love it. Yeah. This is a comedy about a rock band that takes a radio station hostage so that they will play their music on the radio. This is at a time when something called rock music was popular. Sure.

Perhaps you've heard of it. Brendan Fraser, Steve Bouchemy, and Adam Sandler is the band. Joe Montania is the very famous disc jockey who's taken hostage. Incredibly, deeply 90s experience. Super 90s movie. I loved it in the 90s. Is it good? I can't recall.

Okay. But I have warm feelings about it. Sandler, very funny as Pip. I'm not saying it's going in. I don't think it is. But I'd like to yellow. That's fine. Are you cool with that?

I'm fine with that. Okay. Now the work begins Yes 1994 mixed nuts Yeah What happened here? I really don't know

And I've got Nora Ephron did And it's an absolute disaster Speaking of just tones That completely do not match what's going on Yeah It just got away from them You know sometimes that happens You just don't got it

And I guess you keep coming to work every day Is Jay Kelly Noah Baumbach's mixed nuts? I don't know if that It's not that disaster No, it's not This is a Christmas movie Mix Nuts.

Yeah. And Sandler is like a pretty prominent role in the movie. Yeah, but it's just none of it makes any sense. And it's kind of like it's an ensemble. It is. His part is not that big. Yeah. I have one more thing to nominate in 1994.

Fire away. That is when the Hanukkah song is first performed. So do you want to be putting these extra textual non-film things in? I want to be putting either the Hanukkah song or the album, which is the second studio album. The album is released in 1996. What the hell happened to me? I would do Hanukkah song standalone. Let's put it on the list and keep talking

Okay Because if I were putting things from the albums on Tollbooth Willie And they're all going to laugh at you Yeah Is a banger Hanukkah is the festival of lights What about the Thanksgiving song?

Did that not hit with you? No Do you know how many times I've heard the Hanukkah song At least a thousand times I think the Thanksgiving song is now overlooked Drink your ginatonicah And smoke your marijuana

You already did that part Well but now I'm singing it That's a breakout Okay, we'll put it on for now Okay I mean, you can yellow it if you want Jack, 1994, the Hanukkah song Green

1995 Billy Madison Incredibly green Yeah What are the best 90s movie comedies Comedy comedies? Billy Madison Happy Gilmore Tommy Boy those are like the boy comedies do you want to

Wayne's World? Sure though even that is like Bridge to Gen X you know Not saying like it was like handed down to us Yeah And we were like this is cool And Let's see I'm not talking I mean you know like

It's clueless Wait I mean that's what I was gonna say It's a comedy it's 95 Friday But you're just talking about So dumb and dumber is another one That goes in this one for sure space. Yeah, though that's 99 and like edging towards, hey, we're all grown up now.

We're not being like purely stupid. If you just want to be stupid. Is this our draft for February? Just stupid holiday? No, 90s comedies. 90s comedies. I don't know. Has Christine enough?

Oh. You can start now. He's got three months to start checking in. That could be, that could be. That's an interesting idea. Okay. Billy Madison, of course, is a movie about the air, uh, the air, uh, to a great fortune who needs to go back to school starting in first grade and re-acquire

his education one week at a time. It's a super normal movie, a very clear presence about a 26-year-old man going to fourth grade. It's fucking incredible. It's so funny. It's really like, you know, there was just recently a documentary about James Downey, the S&O writer, and he, of course, features in this film as the principal slash trivia a master and the fateful scene

opposite Bradley Whitford in this movie. And I was reminded all over again that there's like 10 or 12 moments of extremely special shit here. So yes, this movie is green. Okay. In 1996, Happy Gilmore. We're in a Happy Gilmore Year. Happy Gilmore 2. Craig Horbeck's favorite movie of 2025.

A film that lives on and saw the future and more ways than Warren about the future of golf. It's definitely going in. This one two punch obviously, big deal for Sandler and neither of these movies were like massive box office sensations, but they were a huge video store and VHS movies.

Yes. And they were watched over and over again in dorm rooms and over and over again, you know, rented from video stores, and they kind of set him on his way. Now, 1996, bulletproof. So this is probably the first time I learned the heartbreak of a movie

not living up to my expectations. Yeah, this was it. I think so. Everything was gravy before. I think so. Well, I was 13. Sure. 13 turning 14.

The Forrest Gump was everything you wanted it to be. Well, I was 12 when that came out. What the fuck did I know? I was like, holy shit. The 70s. Who knew? Bulletproof, directed by Ernest Dickerson, starring Damon Wayans and Adam Sandler as,

I guess, like an FBI agent and a criminal who were stuck together. It's kind of like a cheapo midnight run knockoff. And Ernest Dickerson coming off of Juice, one of my favorite movies of all time, and Sandler and Wayans being two of the funniest people in the world. Wayans had recently come off of In Living Color. And bless you.

Thank you. And this movie's not funny. It doesn't really work. I don't know if I've seen it. Okay. It's not going in. Yeah. 1998, The Wedding Singer.

Got to. Auto Green. Auto Green. I think it's still really good. I did go back and look at it a little bit. And, you know, like all of these movies, these films don't have the best directors of all time. You know?

It's a lot of people that are very comfortable with Sandler's mode of working and a lot of his friends, as you said before, not just in front of the camera, but behind the camera. And they're not Bergman-esque in their work. Right. So there's like some rickety stuff going on in terms of the setting and the mood of the movie. Yeah, this movie has, it should absolutely go in.

And it's very funny. But this movie has always been a little annoying to me in that when you would ask men, oh, what's your favorite rom-com? They'd always be like, oh, the one-ex-seer. And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, because Adam Sandler is in it, you know, and you haven't seen another one.

So it's important It's important to bridge it Yeah The romantic stuff does work though Between him and Drew Barrymore They have actual chemistry You want to see them together It does ultimately come together

Is you know But your point is we'll take 1998 dirty work Is a small role of Satan In this Norm MacDonald comedy This is one of my favorite movies ever We did this movie on the rewatchables Me and Bill

This is like a sick pod Where me and Bill are just like quoting jokes from the movie But RIP Norm McDonald Who I love and who is a close friend of Sandler's It's obviously not going in But it's a very good

Camio performance 1998's the water boy Now this was an interesting confrontation With my taste because I don't like this movie at all I don't think it's funny Okay I'm not really like a hardcore down south college football person

Yeah I don't really know especially at this time I didn't know that culture at all Being from New York Yeah The voice didn't work The accent But this movie is a massive hit

It's huge And people love it I was on the outside on this one Yes yes And I was living in the South as a among college football fans, at least.

I'm a reformed college football fan. So this was a big, big deal. I was very aware of it. It's not one of my favorites either, but culturally, I think we have to at least yellow it. I agree with you.

There's definitely a case for going in just in terms of the importance in his career, because this is when he becomes like a big time movie star. My feeling about it was always like he just did Happy Gilmore. It's like we did a sports comedy

two years ago, about a guy with incredible skill who's kind of an idiot. Like, it just felt very repetitive and less... Like, we all know that Happy Gilmore is the one, but it did make a lot more, you know.

It just... He had gotten to a point in part because of the Hanukkah song, you know, in part because of a handful of factors that, like, led to him getting bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger over time.

1999 Big Daddy. Green? I... Green? I don't... I don't... You don't think there's room? No, I honestly haven't even gamed it out.

This is one of the rare ones where I'm like, I'm just going to go with the flow. That's beautiful. I'm just, Sandman. Yeah, I know. You just want to be here with your friends. I know, I just want to live in it.

I know, I just want to live in it. I like, Sandman going, like, what if we made a movie that's more grounded in the real world, right? Not as ridiculous. His performance is good. Some notes of drama in this movie, right? Because the relationship that he makes with the,

is it Dylan Spouse, the actor who plays the little kid? Cole and Dylan. That's right, the twins. and they're very good together. You can't recall Leslie Mann being smoking hot in this movie. I can't remember if that's true. I think that's always the way. I like it.

I like it. Okay. I don't love it. Do you like it? Did you like it at the time? I did. I mean, I think I just saw it laughed. I wasn't really overthinking it.

I was, what, 15 at this point? So I like this one and I do feel that it's lived on. I agree. Let's green it. Let's green it. Okay. I mean, we can ungreen it if we have to. What do you think of John Stewart's dramatic performance in the film?

Did it work? Jack? Did you see that? Did you see Big Daddy, Jack? Okay, all right. There we go. There we go. We'll green it.

There we go. 2000 Little Nicky. Which one's this one? This is kind of like, well, this is like Satan's son and, you know, come to Earth, and he's got the hair of his face. And it's kind of like a post-limpiscuit, like shit core. United States energy. Some funny bits.

It's bad. I don't feel the... I remember it now, but no, it hasn't stayed with me. Red. Reding Little Nikki. I kind of like Little Nikki, even though it's bad.

Okay. 2002 Punch Drunk Love. Green. That's a green. That's a green. This is an amazing, amazing performance. Yes.

Very exciting that Paul Thomas Anderson also loves all these movies that we're talking about and identified that he wanted to work with Sandler. He still loves Stanley. He talks about Sandler all the time.

And, like, saw that the anger could be used in a different way, but that also that there, like, is softness and, like, different varieties of comedy that can be, you know, manipulated. It's really, really smart. And the movie's not that funny. You know, it really is, like, kind of a sad character study that becomes a romantic exploration of, like, the collision of love and anger. Right. Like, that's really his, the duality of the Sandler persona. He's not that silly. He gets to do his little dance in the supermarket and he has some charming moments.

The snack wells, yeah. Yeah. But, you know, him yelling at Phillips Seymour Hoffman through the phone, intense stuff, you know? You're grabbing the front of the seat in front of you. Definitely going in, Punch Drunk Love. 2002 Mr. Deeds. This is a soft reboot of a Frank Capra classic starring Winona Ryder. It's quite poor.

Yeah, it's a no. Okay. No Mr. Deeds. 2008 crazy nights which is kind of a riff on his Hanukkah song success Yes An animated movie

From the mind of Adam Sandler Now this is when you can see he's like He's like a mobile He's become aware to the idea To the Adam Sandler brand Well that he is like fully put Happy Madison Into work to expand who he's appealing to You know that it's not just

Me drinking a Miller light On a Friday with my friends in college. Like, it is families. It is, like, he is starting to mature a little bit going into his 30s and thinking about reaching more people. I think 8 Crazy Nights, okay. It does have the great

distinction of being one of the very few Hanukkah-themed animated movies. And he's made more Hanukkah themed and Jewish-themed movies over his career. We already have five. And if we're doing anything 8 Crazy Nights related, it'll be the Hanukkah song. I hear you.

I'm just want to say a yellow to acknowledge the work okay all right 2003 anger management okay now he now now I don't love the movie yeah but it's it's iconic but it is also that jack Nicholson smile is the meme is from anger management right uh yes yeah when he's the zoom in yes yeah um yeah this one's directed by peter seagull who he worked with a handful of times over the year sandler and directed You know, one of the naked gun movies. He directed Tommy Boy. You know, he's been at the center of some big comedy hits.

And it was an huge success. I'd like to know what the box office of this movie was, actually. Where is that in the document? Right. This movie made $200 million worldwide. We used to live in a country, you know? Yeah. I mean, he has a few of these that we'll get to.

I think, yes, because of the combination of pairing, identifying that Sandler and Nicholson are not as far apart as you would think. Okay. That their energy, that their personas as actors. You think we should be yellowing this? Yeah, I do. Let's yell at it. It's not a movie that I love.

Fifty first dates, do you feel like, so this is another movie that people love? Yeah. I've seen it many times. Very big hit. Sure. It is a duplication a little bit of the wedding singer. I agree. And it's like a useful like thought exercise.

Like, I do feel like 50 First Dates, like, has become a reference point outside of the movie. For sure. I don't, we can yellow it. Okay, well, yellow 51st days. 2004 Spanglish. Sure. This is deep red. This is a black red.

I don't get this movie. So you, the story of the edibles and the watching Spanglish to comfort you. You were fine and you were asleep. I, here's the story. Me, my wife. Chris Ryan and his wife went on a, you know, weekend vacation to a winery in California. We stayed in an inn. Right.

Had a nice afternoon trying wines. This is well before we had children and we could just drink all day. This is before I moved to California. Yes, you were not living in California at the time. But I heard about it. And we had a nice, really nice day, you know, tried some jammies-ins, you know, some... Phoebe and Eileen loved jammies'-ins for a while there. And at the end of the day, we decided.

decided to have some edibles. These were chocolate edibles, you know, not gummies. And this was, I think, might have been maybe right at the dawning of the legalization of marijuana in California. It was definitely before 2016. So it's a full decade ago. Plus. And we just, we just got hit fucking hard. We just got bulldozed by this chocolate. And also weren't you state, did you have an adjoining room? Well, I was like the bathroom. It was like his and. Yeah, maybe they were next door. I don't, we were close by. But we took basically like, took. the edible and then we're like all right see you later like we didn't hang out we made a huge mistake right you know and it hit me really hard and it hit febe really hard yeah and then phoebe and chris decided to watch spanish i guess they watched the whole movie while phoebe was like tripping the light fantastic i also always imagine her like doing like the leo and wolf up wall street you know i was more just like uh i was asleep but in waltzed asleep okay i was in the fifth dimension What did you find there? I couldn't move any of my limbs

And I couldn't figure out why Like it was paralysis With incredible psychotronic energy in my mind You sleep like Superman, you said I only recently learned that you sleep with your arms by your side Like this. I do sleep like Superman Yeah so can but normally you can move your limbs Sure you can roll over

I'll sleep on my side a little bit sometime You know like I had no I couldn't It's like the circulation of my body stopped Now that is frightening You know what I mean? Yeah anyway Spanglish, the James L. Brooks film built around

Adam Sandler and Talyoni. Yeah, James L. Brooks, one of the great movie writers of all time, kind of hit a speed bump in 2004, and it really hasn't recovered as a movie maker, unfortunately. He's a great mind, but this movie is just like really, really sour, and the Talyone character is like really unfortunate,

and I don't think it's... It's another example of, like, Sandler trying something and working with a really talented person, so I respect that he did it, but it didn't turn out. This episode of The Big Picture is brought to you by State Farm. Having people in your corner to help you makes all the difference. For example, I'm usually loathe to trust Sean and his movie recommendations, but after many months of him waxing rap's out of about train dreams,

I finally watched it, and I have to be honest, he was right. It was wonderful. And like those people, State Farm is there to help you feel supported by helping you choose the coverage you need. Go online at Statefarm.com or use the award-winning app to get help from one of their local agents. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. 2005, the longest yard? No. Yeah.

Dead no. This movie did not need to be remade. I don't like it. It's not interesting to me. So no. 2006, click. Yeah, I just Googled this. And it's Adam Sandler posing with a remote control,

much like my younger son, almost every day. Yeah. So this is a movie about a guy who... struggling with life and meets an inventor, and the inventor gives him a remote control that allows him to skip the boring parts of life. Sandler, the movie's not great. It's kind of sweet and very saccharin

and has some funny stuff. He's married to Kate Beckett's in the movie. Makes sense. But it's another example of him consistently doing these Capra-esque comedies with not Capra-esque filmmakers. Sure. Where, like, the idea on paper

is an interesting exploration of, like, the emptiness at a certain stage of life. You know, he's actually kind of interested in these bigger ideas, but they always manifest in these goofball movies. So I would say click, even though it was also a monstrous head, is not going in. Do you agree with that? No, I agree. Do you, does Alice ask to fast forward through parts of movies she doesn't like at this point? This has become a real issue in my home.

We've learned how to start hiding when something is happening on screen that we don't like. We don't fast forward. it's not always because of fear. It's just because there's been a... Like boredom? Yeah, or I want the next thing, where I want this part. I mean, obviously we don't do it either, but the impulse is an interesting indication of human nature.

Yeah, maybe here and there, but not too often. Click made $237 million worldwide. 2006 was a different time. That is the seventh highest-grossing movie of his career. Some people would make the case that a movie like this should go in. one of these high-concept movies in the mid-2000s when things were still fine in Hollywood. Right, but we've got higher live-action ones.

Okay. You're saving space for Rain Over Me, which is the post-9-11 Mike Binder comedy about a guy who's lost his family and is trying to reconnect. Yeah. Starring Sandler and Don Cheadle. Noble effort.

Another movie that I appreciate that he tried to make this film. His performance is not bad as like a deeply depressed person who is recessed, but it's not going in. I think I watched this on vacation with my mother once. because this was like this was before, you know, the world at your fingertips and you couldn't

travel with your Apple TV or whatever. And then you were just stuck with what was ever, what was on TV. Okay. It's really not an enjoyable experience. Not going in. I have to be honest, guys. We have built Hall of Fames for Living Legends like Robert Redford, Paul Newman. I have never been more overwhelmed looking at a Google Doc before being like,

how the fuck are we going to get this down to 10 movies? We will. We will. We'll do it. We can make decisions. Are you about to stump for I now pronounce you Chuck and Larry? I mean, he's got a lot of movies that are not going in. There are literally like a dozen more that I could make yellow.

That's generational. That is generational. So, and I'm comfortable with that. I would love to have that encounter because I don't really care as much about some of the late 2000s, early 2010s movies. But I know that they're very important to a lot of generations, in part because of Bill and his fans. family. They fucking love those movies. So we'll get to them. Rain Over Me is Red. I now pronounce you, Chuck and Larry, which I just don't think is very funny. It's opposite to him and Kevin James. And Kevin James increasingly becomes a bigger

part of his world. And Adam Sandler produces a lot of Kevin James movies as well. And I never found Kevin James all that funny. Even though, you know, the Pride of Queens and a Mets fan and in theory, somebody who I'm in league with, but I'm just not, I just don't think he's funny. So that movie's out. This is a movie about where two guys need to pretend that they're a gay couple. so that they can get a special dispensation in their life. It's, yeah, it's best left in 2007 on all fronts. You don't mess with the Zohan. Yeah.

I was surprised by how much money this made when you, when looking at the box office. How much did it make? Well, I scrolled down. But this is, it made $100 million domestic, $202 million worldwide. This is a movie about an Israeli super soldier who wants to be a hair. hairstylist. Yeah. And then does.

That's the movie. Follow your dreams. Emmanuel Shrieky as the female lead. And at a time, right in the heart of the entourage times. Sure. That worked very well. You know, I remember very specifically Judd Apatow having a strong producing role in this movie. And this being kind of situated with the 40-year-old virgin, knocked-up era of films.

We'll come back to Judd Apatow shortly. Yeah. This was always in the, like, super high concept, super silly realm that I never loved. But movie was a huge hit. I say red. Yeah, hard red. Jack, any problems with that? With you don't mess with the Zohan?

Yeah. Definitely no problems on that one. Okay. Are you about to make a case for bedtime stories? You could convince me. So this is a Disney movie. Yeah. You know, and this is a very sweet movie, and I assume you must have been, what, nine years old when this movie came out.

Seven years old. It's worse when we. Yeah, you don't want to hear it in that context. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's definitely not good, you know, but it's just right time, right place, right age. I think, is this the movie that Adam Shankman made right after hairspray, I think?

I think it is. It might have been right before hairspray. But this is a movie about a handyman who finds out that the stories that he's telling his, I think it's his nephew and his niece are true. Mm-hmm. And then we see. in the world that he's able to he has this like power to the power of stories yeah we're all

storytellers do you see yourself as a story tell i really don't do you think you're a good storyteller when yes like when the like when i'm in my groove you know when it's a performance i don't know we're all still waiting uh what you want to make a case for it jack is there anything you know not actually it's just a sentimental fave he no it's not even specific to this movie like i'm just looking at this Google Doc, and there's so many movies I've probably seen, like 20 times. This is your childhood. Yeah. Yeah. I get it. I was in my mid-20s at this time, so it's not as not as fertile ground for bedtime stories. That's read. 2009 funny people. I believe that this movie has made a pretty strong comeback in terms of being not just like underrated, but actually quite good.

And even though it is still a bit long, which is one of its biggest criticisms when it came out, that it's one of Apatow's best movies. Is it his best movie? I don't know I don't think so some of the earlier ones are more complete you know what movie this movie reminds me of Jay Kelly yeah but it's a little more even in tone it is it's too long but I understand what it's going for this is really good I would be fine with it as a green I my instinct would be green because it's a very very good performance he and Seth Rogen are terrific together Sandler plays an established comedian who is brought on a younger comedian to help write for him and then we see kind of both sides of their lives and some of the emptiness

that they both have some of the things that are great about their lives big expansive cast you know some crazy stuff going on with Leslie Mann and Eric Bannon

in this movie you know Aubrey Plaza Jason Schwartzman Aziz like a lot of really funny people in the movie and like pretty early

in the moments for all of those people and like the great cameo stuff at the party at the beginning with Eminem like there's a lot of really good moments in this movie and it does have

like a strong it weirdly has strong critical support. I don't know if it's rewatched that much. I'd like to go back to it, actually. I guess I would yellow it, but with an inclination to make it green. Okay. Grownups? I mean, that's the, it's the fourth highest grossing, or is, did it gross more than grownups too? Yes, grownups did outgross grownups too. Wow. A wicked, wicked for good situation. And it is the highest grossing. Live action. movie?

I would... With all respect to Dracula. I would say... Is Dracula human? He was? Right, but... His soul was gone. In Hotel Transylvania.

I mean, he was. He's a vampire now. But so... But Hotel Transylvania doesn't try to humanize him? Well, there's humanizing and then there's the corporeal form. I'm talking about humanizing. Yeah, he's like a...

He's a dad working on things. There you go. You know, he's kind of a Bob Ferguson. Okay. grown-ups would be an acknowledgment of success. Do you want that to be the representation of this guy, even in 2010, as things were starting to go deeply into franchises, and the whole business was shifting,

and comedy was starting to go out of fashion at this point, that this guy could still draw hundreds of millions of dollars at the box office just by goofing off with his buddies? I guess, though I... What 2003 is earlier, But I think I would rather that be... Anger management, you're saying. Yes, anger management as the...

What's yellow grown-ups for and keep the conversation moving? Okay. 2011, just go with it. This is Jennifer Aniston. Yes. I know this is big for a lot of people. It's never really been huge for me. It's not for me either.

Is this your favorite movie all the time, Jack? Brooklyn Decker was deeply important to me. Well, yeah, there's that. Yeah, of course. We do remember the beach sequences from the film. Yeah. And congratulations to her. on all her success.

And congratulations to Andy Rodick. I was going to say, she's still, yeah. I never thought this movie was funny, but families love it. And I wonder if, like, eight years from now, me, Eileen and Alice, sit down on the couch and fire up, just go with it, and we're like, I know, I get it. I see it all happening. Like, I guess I'm just not really in the family comedy era of my life back then. Yeah. So, in my Hall of Fame, I wouldn't put it in.

That's fine with me. Jack and Jill is going in some other Bizarro World Hall of Fame, the dumbest movie Alive Fame Hall of Fame. It's a hard now. Okay. That's my boy. Do you remember this one? I don't.

This is the one where Andy Sandberg plays his son in an uncanny bit of casting. Oh, yeah. And I think Andy Sandberg is getting married and his father and he have a complicated relationship. Yes. And it's like 47% of a good movie And never quite gets to where I wanted it to go So my instinct is to say red I think that this is going to be a red

Okay Having just watched Hotel Transylvania Yeah, speak on it I'd really like it that much Okay And while I do think it is important to his career And it was a smart move on his part I'm sure he gets to benefit greatly

From having a producing role in these movies And then being such enormous successes And him bringing all of his friends in to do voices and you know kind of leveraging all of that seems like a grand old time okay but it doesn't need to go in the hall of fame it's red grownups too is also red correct blended yeah i saw this and maybe i went to a screening maybe i didn't actually see it in theaters but i i didn't have a great time what do you remember about it i i remember it being not particularly uh culturally sensitive and i and i remember um that there were some animals but i i i remember um that there were some animals

I don't remember if they were real or C-G-I'd. Yes. This is Sandler and Drew Barrymore go to South Africa. Mm-hmm. And they encounter some cultural stereotypes. Sure, yeah. But not Rosamund Pike. Very popular movie, very successful movie.

Not what I'm interested in this movie you make? Yeah, made $127 million in 2014. Pretty incredible. Blended, not going in. Top five, he shows up very briefly as himself in the movie with a movie directed by his buddy Chris Rock, your dad's favorite movie of that. years, I recall. He did. He did want it to win the Oscar. Alas, it didn't happen.

2014, men, women, and children. A risible drama by Jason Reitman that I think is very well-intentioned. Very well-intentioned. Aren't they all? They are. This is a movie about how computer bad. Yeah. Don't look at computer. Right. It's bad. And it is bad.

And the movie's ideas are not wrong. The manner in which they are delivered is quite poor. So men, women, and children will not be going in. I was old Alcourt is in this movie I didn't remember it's a pretty stacked cast as I recall who else is in it is Catherine Keener Jennifer Garner Rosemary DeWitt the legend yeah Caitlin Dever yeah oh Timothy Shalamey's film debut oh that's right yeah Emma Thompson's in this movie she's the narrator yeah yeah doesn't really work not going in I like that he tried I also like that he tried the cobbler yeah this is yet another of the Capra-esque films that he has attempted, this is the film that immediately precedes

Spotlight from director Tom McCarthy. Sure. And he was just, you know, he had in range, I would say. So it went the cobbler,

Spotlight, Stillwater? No, there's something in between those. Okay. I also recently found it Tom McCarthy novel just floating around our house.

Does he write books as well? I think so. I think it's the same. He also made a movie called Timmy Failure. Mistakes were made for the Disney Channel. Okay. And then Stillwater in 2021. Interesting career.

You know, the station agent and the visitor, two of the best independent dramas of their time in the only 2000s. Spotlight, terrific movie. One of my favorites. Maybe it's a different Tom McCarthy, but I've always assumed it was him because, you know, he has range. Yeah, the cobbler is about a magical cobbler. He finds a magical sewing machine

Is really what happens And It's a sewing machine Yeah, it's like a machine A shoe-making sewing machine That allows him to stitch together new shoes That he can try on and walk in other people's feet See the world through their eyes

It was then that I carried you Yeah Well, it's not really a Christ-like story I don't think I don't think it's allegorically Judeo-Christian Are you sure? I'm not entirely sure. And, you know, Adam Sandler is Jewish, of course, as was Jesus.

Carpenters, you know? Stitching materials together. You might be on to something, yeah. And together we have woven the fabric of humanity. Cobbler is red. Yeah. 2015 pixels. This is a movie about video games coming into the real world to crush people.

See, I told you. Did you see this one? No. This is like a big action comedy. It didn't see this. successful, Jack's nodding his head, no. I remember being very poorly reviewed. It did, in fact, make $244 million.

Directed by Chris Columbus. Yes. Starring Adam Sandler, Kevin James, Michelle Monaghan, Peter Dinklage, Josh Gad, and Brian Cox. Michelle Monaghan, God, he's so good at female co-leads. I really love what he's up to there. Pixels not going in.

Chris Columbus apparently directing Gremlins 3. Your thoughts? What is the last thing that Chris Columbus directed? The Santa Claus Chronicles 2? I think that is what he did. No, it wasn't at the Thursday murder club. I'm sorry. It's okay.

Mom's three coming soon. Hotel Transylvania 2, also 2015, not going in. Okay. Yeah. The Ridiculous Six. Now, of course, a consequential movie, one of the most significant movies with regard to what we've been discussing this week about Netflix. Because Adam Sandler signing on to Netflix, in a way, legitimized the movie-making operation in the same way that the House of Cards TV initiative legitimized their TV operation. The Ridiculous Six was huge.

Most of his movies on the service have been huge. He draws a crowd. We've been talking about what a huge commercial artist he is. and I think this movie is really unfunny and one of his least successful comedies but it was big time when it hit and it was the first time I think It was a thing

Was it the first time though That it was like Like a straight to streaming movie Was a huge hit You know what I mean? Yeah I mean I'm trying to remember if there are any other Like there obviously were cable movies before this Right and there were prestige plays coming in the aftermath of

for Netflix, but a pure streaming play movie that you could quantifiably say had millions of viewers. Yeah. It could be. And in that way, it's very important. Well, so the Netflix films in older, the very

first, can you name it? Yes, it's the Idris Elba film. Yes. Beasts of No Nation. Correct. And then Ridiculous Six was second. So, and Beast of No Nation was October, 2015, and Ridicrous Six was December. So I think they were like, here's your awards play and here's your Adam Sandler movie at once.

Smart company, man. This is what I'm saying. I don't think this should go in. And in fact, this film's existence actually pierced my soul. Okay. But I just wanted to note that. Yeah. I don't remember this one.

This is also a straight to streaming movie. Do over. No, the do over L.A. That's not what I want. Is this him and Chris Rock are the fathers of potentially of two kids we're getting married? No. This is David Spade and Adam Sandler fake their deaths in order to start their lives

all over. Wow. We should do that. 2026. Do you think would be mourned publicly? What do you think the reaction would be? I think it depends on how we die. A dramatic boating accident on New Year's Eve. Tracy

Letts and CR take over. We're going on a boat? Yeah, we're going on a boat. Okay, that's exciting. Yeah. Um, I think that, you know, like, they would build a blu-ray shrine to you, you know? They would. That's beautiful. Where would it stay? Where would it exist?

I don't know. I hope it's publicly available. I want it to be at the top of Machu Picchu. When you die, I hope that the Sean Fantasy Memorial DVD closet is available to all. 4K closet. No, I said DVD on purpose. I know what makes you mad. See, your little nostrils are playing.

I know. Blu-rays, 4K. 4-Ks. So no do-over for me and you. No. Do you think we'll be mourned? Well, but see what happens is. I'm asking you a direct question about your legacy.

Yes, I said that they're building you a little closet. But that's not the same. That's something you do out of a sense of necessity. Will men and women quietly contemplate your absence? Every time they make a Nogroni. Yes, they will. That's beautiful. Yeah.

2016, the do-over out. That's a great legacy, honestly. Negronis, people drinking Nogronis, Waltz thinking of you? Yeah. Yeah, they're already doing that right now. 2017, Sandy Wexler. This is a movie about a talent manager, kind of like an attempt to do a dopey

Woody Allen-style movie that is, I thought, very unfunny. Oh, I remember this, yeah, I didn't like it as either. So that's a no. So, you know, the Netflix movies, by and large, haven't been good, except for 2017's The Myerwit Stories. Which is wonderful. Great movie. He's really good in it.

Great singing. Dynamic stuff with Dustin Hoffman in this movie. dynamic stuff with what is the actresses name, Grace Van, Van. I'm doing it. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. It plays his daughter. Patten. Grace Van Patton. Yes. She's wonderful in this movie. They're very funny together. Them singing together is magic.

A great bomb-back movie. A little underrated now. I agree. I feel a little lost. It was his first Netflix movie. Mm-hmm. I still think of the shot of Emma Thompson that's just from out the door. doorway, and it's Emma Thompson driving the background, the car straight into... Yeah. Really good. I love this movie. I think this movie's so good.

Were we even doing the show? We weren't doing the show in this movie came out. They were just like right around when I was starting. It's great. I don't know if it's like a legendary movie, but I would at least yell at it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

2018, I believe the week of is the movie with him and Chris Rock, where they are the fathers of impending bride and groom. Sure, and it's the week of the wedding. Yes. And it's not funny. No. Another movie that on paper, I'm like, Chris Rock and Adam Sandler or Dads. This is your wedding role.

This ends with the wedding as opposed to starting with the wedding. Tough beat. Yeah. Yeah. Not like Hotel Transylvania, which starts with a wedding. Hotel Transylvania 3, no. Summer vacation. Yeah. Where is their summer vacation?

Tulum. That's why I went bad. 2019 murder mystery. You liked it. I chuckled. I liked that they did it. Yeah. We've now entered big picture territory where we've been covering these films.

I'll never forget. when this trailer debuted, my husband, who does not look at the internet very much, sent it to me within 10 minutes and was like, we got to watch this open a night, baby. Did he call you a baby in the text? No, but it was like the same voice that he used when we went to see, oh God, what, what trailer was it when he was like, we got to see that in IMAX? I can't remember. He's just like, this is really, this is the big time. Was it zone of interest? No, it was a trailer before Guardians of the Galaxy 3, so I don't really remember.

Anyway, I liked that they did it. Huge hit. Huge hit. Also, filmed in the Mediterranean, so that was cool. Yeah. I like movies like this, and I don't love this one. So I'm going to say Murder Mysterious Red. Wasn't 2019 also the original Knives Out?

Certainly was. Right, which is kind of blotted out by that film. Right. Yeah, which was doing the detective story better. And then Knives Out went to Netflix and then. That's right. And then so did we. And so did everybody else.

2019, uncut gems. Green, green, green. This movie rules. An incredible film. An incredible performance. Howard Ratner, a gambler who doesn't know when to quit. Who's on a quest for greatness and a quest for success that is unattainable. But that does not stem his ambition.

Yeah. And if you haven't seen it, you should watch it. You really should. Really, really good. It's kind of crazy to look back and think that this movie was not recognized. You know, it was successful at the box office And it was obviously like a legendary movie now Like it's a huge beyond cult classic

People love this movie But um 2019 was so competitive That it just kind of missed on a lot of the more like Hallowed award season stuff Right though it did make it into best picture Did it? I think so it was like one of the

Did it not or did it just get screen screen? Because he didn't get nominated I really well because I had 10 But I remember that there was No it didn't no it didn't Oh, okay. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Oh, right.

It was the, I don't remember what I'm remembering that year. I mean, I remember being disappointed by that. No, obviously the movie, I was at the tell you ride premiere for this movie and all the 65-year-olds were like, what in God's name is this? This is unacceptable, this energy in this film. We've now come to accept the saffty energy as like a more common part of our movie, our film grammar, I guess. But On Cut Jemzes is automatically in a 2020-Huby Halloween.

Okay. I loved it. It's not good. It's not good. You loved it. I loved it. Yeah, you love Halloween. I love Halloween.

Yeah. I love Halloween. I love Halloween comedy. I mean, this is why like a murder mystery. Yes. So I like murder mystery. And you like Hubey Halloween. That's fine.

We can say Hubey Halloween is a red. Yeah. I love it. I can't wait to share it with my family. 2023 hustle. Interesting one. I liked this. This is a good movie.

It is good. It's a movie about an NBA scout who's leveraging his entire career on a foreign born player, a European player. Yeah. And the journey that they go on together to try to try to bring him to the NBA. To the Philadelphia 76ers, right? Very, very good performance.

Fun movie that kind of with a lot of real-life NBA figures, most notably Anthony Edwards, who's very good in the movie. Yellow? Yeah, we should revisit it, for sure. Murder Mystery 2, Otto Green. No, that's going red. 2023, you are so not invited to my bat mitzvah, where he plays the father, I believe the father, leave, which is, in fact, his daughter.

Is it Sadie Sandler? Is she the star of the film? I think it's Sadie Sandler. Several of them. Yeah, his daughters and his wife have now appeared in many of his films over the last five or six years. This is a cute comedy. Obviously, it's not a Sandler classic or anything like that. But he is very much...

Would you say it's using Nepo for good? It feels very self-contained. So it doesn't feel as, like, annoying? I think it's... Yes. I think it's a great, like, life thesis statement, which is use your success to do things you want to do with the people that you love. I'm with you. It's amazing.

Well put. We should all be like it. Yes. And you are so not invited to my bottomits is red. 2023, Leo, an animated film in which he plays a turtle. Sadie and Sunny are in the film, but it's Sunny who plays Stacy, who's preparing for the botanza. She's the star. Okay.

Got it. Leo, do you see Leo? No. No. Animated movie? Not bad. Okay. Not bad.

It's red, though. Leo is what kind of a lizard? Oh, is a lizard? I thought it was a turtle, my mistake. Leo, the lizard is logical, actually. Okay. Leo the Tuatara, Tuatara, the species of reptile endemic to New Zealand. Despite its close resemblance to lizards, it is the only accident member of a distinct lineage.

Well, I am not going to, anyway. Lizard-esque, but not a lizard. It's its own thing. Okay Thank you Wikipedia for all that you do We've only got three more films to talk about I just remembered Edwin Diaz And I'm just upset all over again

I was having a great time This has been a very funny podcast I got depressed again You didn't want to learn about the You know No you should show it to your son Show it's your son and teach him Leo?

Yeah Leo is the most beloved stuffy Of size of younger son But Leo is a gondolier cat from Venice A gondolier cat from Venice Like I bought him in Venice He's a gondolier

cat he has a little hat understood um it's tough now though because we gotta get a replacement because leo is so beloved but the tariff situation it's really it's not ideal i'll stitch a new one handcrafted be like the cobbler but for gondolier cats lovely little little striped shirt because he's a gondolier cat sure yeah as one does that's nice 24 space man i spoke of this film earlier not a success no not going in the hall of fame red 2025 happy gilmore two the smash sensation of the year on Netflix? Yeah. We're handing our vote out to Craig Horlebeck. Yes. Not going in. No. 2025 J. Kelly. Now, you see, it seems like you don't, you're not feeling it.

I'm not totally feeling it, but you really identified with this. Well, what if it gets him his first Oscar nomination is my question for you? Because he's not been nominated before. Now, I'm not saying he will, but I think he will. If I had to take bets, I would say he's getting in that fifth spot. Now, he's competing with Jacob Allorty and Paul Meskel. Oh, for the spot. Yes. Hmm. Challenging.

Yes. And there are six spots at the Golden Globes and only five at the Oscars. That's correct. He's, I don't know. I don't know. But sure, if you want to do it, I don't mind. Well, let's yellow it so that we can further this discussion. If you do that, we can do that for you and the Hanukkah song for me.

I'll give you the Hanukkah song no matter what. I think it's a great idea. Great. Thank you. Let's go back through our list. Now, we've got currently 2, 4, 6, 7 greens. We've got 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 yellows. Yes.

Jack, any extraordinary eliminations that you don't feel comfortable with here? Grownups is very personal to me. I'm also shocked Meyerowitz's stories was yellow and not a green. Well, I think it's great. I don't know if it's legendary. I also don't think we can do two bombats. That's a very good point. But we have so much of the other stuff, too, that is somewhat duplicative.

Well, that's because we are old, and this was our childhood, and it's still us making the list. Right. There's not a strong case for Billy Madison and Happy Gilmore, except we like them both, right? Like, they kind of represent the same thing. Yeah. But they're just both great. If I had to pound the pavement, it would be for grownups. For me personally.

It's interesting. I mean, I'm very open-minded to that idea. I am as well. Because the movie is so big. You can get a vote. Yeah. You just can't take off the most important. cinematic texts of the mid-90s. You can't take off,

which I'm not advocating for, for the record. All right, but grown-ups is greens, so that's eight greens. Okay, I'm going to take off airheads as a starting point, right? Airheads's a lot of fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Put it on fork out by it. Take out Waterboy because we don't have passion for it and this era is represented quite well. I agree. We'll get a little pushback on that. Don't care. That's fine. Eight crazy nights, I don't think we need it.

Considering what we're navigating here. Now comes the hard work. Mm-hmm. My first instinct is that hustle comes off based on what we have left here. I would agree with that. You know what, Chuck, you don't have to say it quite like that. We had a nice time watching Hustle. I like hustle.

The struggle of Philadelphia sports is one that I live every day. I totally understand. I understand. I'm just saying comparatively. This has been a Mets Forward podcast, but let me tell you, it has not been great for the last 24 hours in the city of Philadelphia. with respect to sports, but also probably like the weather in general. No, I just, I thought you were a little dismissive. I apologize.

And we had it next time. Okay. Hustle's coming off. Yeah. Okay. So that leaves us with two, four, six, eight greens, two, four, five yellows. Okay. Now, we got to make a choice between Myraud's stories and Jay Kelly then.

Will we look, will it be foolish if Jay Kelly becomes his Oscar nomination and it's not here? It doesn't, I'm not saying. would. I'm just asking the question. Maybe. Okay. And you feel strongly about it. So... I like it. I just, I like it. Okay. Then that's, then I'm okay with that. I really like Meyerwitz stories too, but I, you know... What's the better performance? You think it's Meyerwitz? I think he has more to do in Meyerwitz, personally. Okay, let's make it Meyerwitz. Okay.

Jay Kelly's coming off. Yeah. We reserve the right to re-haul. Yeah. We reserve the right to... to do whatever we want at any time. Anger management and 50 first dates. Does anger management go because we put grownups in? I think so. They are different. They are different phases.

But they do represent an incredible kind of success, like a movie stardom that is rare. Anger management would be my preference as a movie, but I do agree with what Jack is saying, which is the grownups is like a huge movie. Right. There are several stepping stones here, which is, you know, the 90s era and then starting kind of in Big Daddy. Like, I guess Big Daddy and Anger Management are different.

And anger management is like a leveling up, but they are of an era of Sandler being like a broader big budget star. Yeah. Okay. So you think Big Daddy is doing the work that Anger Management does? I think it's not a one-to-one, but we're close enough. And then grown-ups represents a totally different box office era success. Yeah, of dad family-focused stuff that is also filling in for blended and for just go with it and for, you know, bedtime stories and pixels and all those movies. That's what grown-ups accomplishes. So then we would take anger management off and then a blood feud between 50 first dates and funny people. It's really.

So the better movie by far is funny people. But if you polled the people of America, 50 first dates is borderline canonical. It is like considered one of the last great studio rom-coms. When has polling the people of America worked out for us? You know, and when you put it in that context, well, right now we've got extraordinary disapproval on some significant figures in the world. You're right. I guess when has the electoral college poll ever worked out for us? We don't use that system here on the show.

That's fair enough. We each vote counts individually. Yours, mine, and Jacks sometimes. Remember watching 50 first dates after my college boyfriend graduated from college. What do you think he's doing right now? I got an update, like, fairly recently. Oh, you answered that question seriously. But I think he's well.

I don't know, like, I don't... Is he a cobbler? What does he do? Yeah, a magical cobbler. And also a storyteller. Anyway, I remember... But I have some stories to tell about you. I remember sobbing

because, like, we were breaking up because he graduated, you know? But then, obviously, like, we did it. You were sobbing or he was sobbing? I was during, while watching 51st dates. He had already graduated. Was he a big crier as well? I don't think so.

Okay. What do you think about a man crying? That attractive is a sign of weakness? I think, you know, that I will never forget you crying while watching I have a tired of way of water is what I think. Yeah. That was, I've been told that's the sexiest thing. once done on a podcast in 2025. Someone told me that's my face.

Can you name three of the family members? Of course I can. That is not Jake Sully. Sure. Kiri? Uh-huh. Um, yeah, what's Lowoc? Lowok?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Nittiri. There you go. I'm glad I didn't offer you to Ben you. This is what I, I mean, that's a layup for me, you know. There's a thing on. jam session where I keep offering to Venmo Juliette $100 if she can tell

me role model's real legal name. Can you do it without Googling right now? Who? Rolemodel? I don't know who that is. Who will be starring in the new Lena Dunham film with Mark Ruffalo and Natalie Portman? No idea who that is. Okay. Well... Roll model? Yes. Sally,

when the wine runs out, when the wine runs out. Literally no clue what you're saying. I was on SNL and then Charlie XX showed up. She was the Sally for the S&L and people were like, is this a Taylor Swiftus? I haven't seen it. Okay. Well, his real name, you will not be getting $100 by Venmo, is Tucker Pillsbury.

That's his real name. Like, as best I can verify. Like, I haven't seen the burst of the beginning. Right. You haven't called the CIA. And I'm not asking for it, okay. Tucker Pillsbury. Yeah.

Okay. Role model. You will be podcasting about him in the next two years, just so you know. That's a frightening list of names that I don't yet know the people I will talk about on this show. 50 first dates versus funny people. Funny people. Okay, funny people.

I agree. Funny people. Fifty first dates. It's adequately represented by the wonderful work that Drew Barrymore and Adam Sandler did together in the wedding singer. Exactly, which is also in our Hall of Fame. So here's our Hall of Fame. Yeah.

Right now for Adam Sandler. Yes. 1994, the Hanukkah song. Not a film. 1995. Billy Madison. 1996, Happy Gilmore. 98, the wedding singer.

1999, Big Daddy. 2002 Punch Drunk Love. 2009 funny people. 2010 grown-ups. 2017, the Meyerwit Stories. 2019 Uncut Jems. very millennial coded list here. We are who we are.

We are who we are. Jay Kelly could come through? Sure. And you would cut Meyerwitz or something else? I think that, you know, if we're applying the 2025, 25 for 25 rules, that there's only one Bobback allowed. Got it. Okay. Well, I think we've done Yeoman's work here.

Okay. And this has been a very cool podcast made by some cool people. Let's go now to my conversation with Noel Bomback. No, I'm back on the show. It's been some years. Last time I saw you was in a hotel room. Now we're in a hotel room again, and I'm in my home. And I was thinking about your body of work preparing for this.

And I recently revisited the De Palma documentary because we talked about a De Palma movie on another podcast. And then this summer, I watched you get the Tell You Ride Tribute, and I know you've been getting tributes. And now you're kind of looking back on your career in the same way that the character in your film is, I'm wondering if you felt like you, how you're feeling about that?

Did you manifest that? Was there any intentionality into all that? No. It's probably a good marketing idea, I guess. I don't know. I, um, that wasn't mine. No, I guess it's, you know, I'm, I'm over 50.

So now we, now we have, we get to look back. I've got, I've made a few, movies. Do you like seeing that stuff? When you're watching a tribute, do you feel happy, comfortable? Is it awkward? All of that, I think. I mean, it's, um, I feel generally happy and proud and glad those movies are out there.

And, uh, I think they all, it's, you know, when you see like the, back-to-back in the clip grill, because it's, of course, when you're making them, you're not thinking them in any kind of continuity with themselves. I mean, you're just sort of making the one that's, you know, in front of you.

And so seeing it suddenly the way maybe somebody from the outside might see it, which is to, you know, kind of put things in context and think about how they relate to each other. I mean, it's, I mean, it's interesting. on a personal level, I suppose.

And it's also easier to talk about movies in the past than it is to talk about the movie that you're selling in the moment. So conversations that I've had that are kind of more about the career in a way or easier for me to have than they are to talk about J. Kelly at this point. But Netflix wouldn't like it if I didn't talk about J. Kelly. So I have to do that. But, yeah, I mean, it's like this alternate version of myself that's out there. And I mean, because I also haven't seen the movies since they, since I made them.

So it's also kind of interesting because I have perceptions of them in my head that I, you know, they are like memories in that way. Like I've reconstructed what they are, you know. And I don't know if I actually. actually my, like how I might think a movie of mine plays or how I feel about it. Now, I don't know how much it actually is connected to the actual movie anymore. I mean, it's like some combination of my experience making it, my memory of the movie, maybe what some people have said to me over the year.

So it's, it's interesting that way, but, but I feel very lucky and proud of the career. So you never go back and look at something that you made. No, only when I've had to do like blue rays or things like new versions of them. But like I've seen squid again. I've seen kicking and screaming again. But the more recent ones all of those sort of additions have essentially been made concurrent to the making of them. So then I've just sort of left them. I mean, I haven't, yeah, I haven't seen...

Like, I haven't seen Margo at the wedding and since almost 20 years, probably. And then I haven't seen Greenberg since it came out. I mean, I've caught, I mean, when TV was a thing, like when cable was a thing, like sometimes I, you know, I would bump into one or something. But that doesn't happen anymore. So, you know, when I see a clip reel, I get to see pieces of them. What about your kids? Curious?

You have an older son, right? Yeah, well, he's just starting to, he's now seen the last couple, I mean, really just, I guess, White Noise and Jay Kelly, he's seen when they came out or as they're coming out or as I'm working on them.

But he hasn't seen, he's a Barbie. He hasn't seen really any of the movies yet of the earlier movies. partly because up until now, I thought it'd just be better to wait. And, but, you know, I think now he could.

I mean, certainly somebody that would be a good time for him to see. Probably almost kicking and screaming time for him, arriving at these phases of life. Yeah, I feel like probably kicking, screaming, probably Francis or Squid in the Whale also. Because he's almost, he's really, it is the age of Jesse's character. in that movie.

I'm curious about the arrival of this movie at this time for you. I'm two curiosities about that. One is collaborating with Emily specifically. I know you've had co-writers before, but never with her. And I was just curious how you worked together,

especially having made so many films. She's made many films and TV over the years, but doing it for the first time what that's like. It didn't feel, I mean, it was kind of, I suppose it was inherent in the fact that I asked her because I felt very comfortable with her. I mean, I've gotten to know her better over the last really few, I don't know, a few years, a couple, three years because of white noise because her kids were in white noise.

So I got to, we were all in Ohio, you know, standing on some abandoned highway with a rain tower at four in the morning. it's you start to have conversations and things and but I'd always liked her always liked her when I saw her um you know I would see her at events and things and and Sandra also and I love her kids and I um and I I you know and then I mean I did love Dahl and M you know when it was on and and I I don't have a really good reason. I really just liked, I felt talking to her that we had a kind of good sort of thing going. And when I started, I told her a bit about what I was working on, which became Jay Kelly, but it was, it was the, the, I had several things, you know, some that ended up in the

movie, some that didn't, and that I felt was like, was a movie and a movie that I was ready to kind of explore and do. And I liked how she talked about it. And, and then I posed it to her, but then I felt like, well, I said, I mean, if it doesn't work, we can just stop, you know. But we never, it was never a question. It was always just a really useful and pleasurable and she's brilliant. She's so funny and so smart and brought a perspective

to the movie that I wouldn't I wouldn't have brought. I was wondering how much the Barbie experience informed the writing of Jay and how far along you were on Jay before this because, I mean, just a global

box office conquering thing, I assume that all felt very new to you, given the massive success of that movie. And it's like a, you know, it's a sensitive portrayal of a person who's lost touch with themselves, but it's also, it's a very capital-age Hollywood movie, and I don't think of your films in that way either. Yeah, I'm sure it did. I don't, I wasn't a conscious thing.

I mean, it, it had the, has the tone and the scope that I felt was right for the movie. and for the story. So I wasn't, you know, consciously saying, oh, I want to make a broader, bigger movie or anything like that. And I don't know how much relationship I even have to that if somebody says that, you know, like, I mean, I can understand it,

but I don't, it wasn't, it wasn't, anything, a goal in any way. But I'm sure it did. I'm sure, I mean, what I do know is the experience of being, on the set of Barbie and working with Greta on it and watching the process. Because I mean, White Noise was, I'm proud of the movie, but I didn't have a good time making it. It was just really difficult.

And we were shooting in COVID, and it was, that was a big part of it. But it was just a, it was a very complicated movie. and I think Barbie kind of brought me back a little bit because I really was starting to feel like like do I love this? You know, I mean, like I've always wanted to do this. I'm doing it.

I've been doing it for years. But I don't know, maybe I'll just write Barbie movies or something and chip in, you know. But watching, being on the set and everything really was, I had a great time. I liked, you know, all of it. And I was working with Emily. Like, Emily and I did a lot, we did a lot of work over,

over, I don't know, a course of maybe a year and a half, two years or something. because it kind of started, I think, when I was even cutting white noise and we were shooting Barbie and then it continued when we were cutting Barbie and we were,

so I would go, she and I would work while we were also working on the edit so I would go back and forth between the two rooms. And so in that sense, I'm conscious of it. I'm also curious about, the, there's a kind of fantasia quality,

like a little capra-ass quality in J. Kelly, too. And it feels like you're almost like splitting the difference between what you did in White Noise with this kind of constructed world and in Barbie, which is a very constructed world. You know, is that something that you're consciously saying? Like, I kind of want to expand the way in which I'm designing a movie.

You know, there's like a dreamlike quality to Jay Kelly that feels very different than what you've done before. Yeah, I... I mean, I suppose it is, it does come out of qualities that those two movies have, both White Noise and Barbie. And it's a further exploration of that. But again, I wasn't thinking of it like that. I was thinking it more because of the nature of the story,

because it's a journey, you know, into Europe and on a train. But it is a journey into his past. and once we started writing the memories and the way he was going to essentially walk into them and they were going to exist in some ways concurrent to the present, from that point forward it did sort of, then it meant that it was going to have this kind of quality to it.

So it was like a language that we, because it was part of the story, It was a language then that informed the rest of the movie. And it's not only that. The memories kind of develop as we go on. So it's like his way into the memories changes even. And the qualities of the memories are like what even is possible in the memories. Like he speaks in one of the final ones, you know,

and he hasn't spoken before, really. And just sort of how these things could. build on themselves and the language can expand. I mean, it's always interesting how language in movies can change. I mean, it can change and should change

as the movie develops, whether the audience is aware of it or not. And it can be very subtle. It can be, you know, you know, Sidney Lumet's always so very articulate about, you know, how he changes the framing and network work as the movie you know there's always like very like defined versions of that but i think

it can happen in in i mean in francis ha for instance like the the the camera really never moves without mostly francis but any character and at the end when she's writing out her mailbox name and she's you know in her she's found her own apartment and she turns around and looks at the apartment and then the camera just pushes in and it's like the simplest thing but i think it's it's because of the way the movie's been constructed it's like an emotional move you know which if you did it in scene two would be nothing and i think uh myowitz i remember like the music you know Randy Newman had done this piano score for the whole thing, but at the very end, an orchestra comes.

You know, it's just, it's, again, these are sort of simple, you know, things to refer to. But I think it's like as characters, as possibilities maybe expand for characters, emotionally and psychologically, I'm interested in how the cinema of the movie can also expand. And because of Jay Kelly having these more, like you say, sort of magical aspects to it,

it was going to necessarily affect the rest of the movie. Is that why you hired Lena Sandgren? I was curious about that because he has just a comfort doing that kind of work. Well, I mean, I wanted to work with Linus before. So, I mean, I think I would have hired, I mean, I know I would have hired him, you know, if I was shooting two people in a room, you know, but certainly he was instrumental in the design and methodology and really the poetry of the whole thing. I mean, Linus is, I mean, I think he's an incredibly

sensitive. I don't know if you've spoken with him, but he's like a very, I mean, sort of, he's very sensitive to character into the emotion of a movie on just the most basic level. And then he's also incredibly inventive in terms of camera and lighting and what methodology, really. Like, how was the best way to do something? I mean, he'll come up with several, you know, sometimes I'm like, is that, is it even possible? Like, what do you, like, the things. And he's like, oh, of course it is, you know, and he'll have all the reasons, you know. And, It's amazing. I mean, he's just so, you know, it's just very expansive how he kind of imagines, you know, a world in a movie.

Clooney really represents something about stardom and about the Hollywood engine that is definitely starting to feel a little bit antiquated or a little bit more challenged than it was 20 years ago. I'm curious if you see the film as like an elegy for that time as much as for this figure. I mean, we were aware of that, I think, from, I mean, it was, I think it's, it was even built into my decision to do it. But I, I didn't feel like it even had to be acknowledged. It was, it was, it's, the fact of it is, is an elegy in, and of itself, I think, it's, and I think it's, and I think George's sort of timelessness, qualityism. You know, he looks, he could be a movie star at any, in any era, I think, and from silent onward. So he, I think that adds to it, too, that there's this, you know, this notion we all have of, like, you know, movie stars live forever. They're, you know, and we're in a time when maybe they don't, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know either.

I hope they do, but I have some concerns. I mean, I think they do. I think they, of course, they do. But I think, I mean, from a very just straightforward, I think it's just that there's not, you know, you don't, the thing with movie stars is you can't pick them. They have to reveal themselves. And because we, no one understands and can quantify or qualify or talk

what a movie star really is. It's just a feeling we get from people. And, um, and, And so if we're not making enough things for those people to, you know, for us to even know who they might be, then we're not going to find more of them. I mean, that's the thing. I mean, you've done something interesting with another star with Sandler.

This is the second time. It's somewhat similar as Meyerwitz. But in this film, you get something like really needy out of him. I don't know if I've ever seen him quite so desperate. part, you know, he's angry and he's, like, he's just and exciting, but there's something really destroyed about this guy. And maybe you can just talk about why you wanted him for this and maybe even how he reacted to the material. Well, I think, I mean, they, because they are kind of shadow versions of each other, Jay and Ron. And we do that visually throughout sort of

this doubling of the two of them. And I think even though Ron is going through, I mean, Jay is going through a kind of more dark night of the soul kind of existential crisis or, you know, search. And Ron is on the face of it going through a more, a more maybe ordinary and the sort of every day of balancing work and life. and, you know, is this the right, you know, I've been doing this job for all these years. Do I love it? Do I, you know, do I, is this, is this person worth it? You know, I think they are. I love this person. But if they, if it's not worth it to them, why should it be worth it to me? Which, of course, then calls into question so many other things about the relationship and the friendship of like, is it all one-sided? Don't I get to decide to whether or not we

still do this and the answer is no in a certain sense and so i think it does create a kind of desperation for him and you know i think i mean what i you know it's like when i worked with um i remember you know when squidden away working with jeff daniels at one point and asking him like after a take like how did that feel to you and he said it felt funny but he wasn't playing it funny And I knew exactly what he meant. It felt funny. I think there's something, you know, in I always feel with all of my characters that there's something that feels funny, even at its most dramatic.

And I don't mean it means that it's played for laughs or it comes off as funny. But I think there is something, there is like a comic version of what Adam's doing in the movie that you could imagine in another, if you just sort of adjust it slightly. And then there's a very moving, desperate, sad, I mean, heroic in his way, too, version of what you, you know, you see him do. But because Adam obviously has a built-in sense of humor,

I do think there's something actually quite, it's, I don't know if I'm saying it right exactly, but the humor and it plays, I feel like, simultaneous to it. And so, you know, and I think in a large part it is because of how Adam does it. Yeah, I was trying to think if I think you're, are your movies getting funnier or more tragic? Like, it's possible that the movies are getting increasingly more tragic, but maybe it just depends on where you're at in your own life to determine that too.

I think so. I mean, I don't know. I think so. I think, I mean, funny, because like, I feel like, you know, I would, with, Jay Kelly, I see people, you know, when you have to show up after a movie and talk to people or, um, shake hands with jerks like me. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, no, no, I don't mean like even this. I mean like right after a movie, you know, like the sort of unnatural thing of like appearing on the other side of the door when people come out of Ruby, you know. Um, and when you do that, you know,

and I've seen how kind of, I mean, some people like crying in ways. that, you know, like really affected by it. And then, you know, then someone else would come up to me and say, like, like, oh, I just so enjoyed that or something like that. And, you know, as if it was a more straight comedy in some way, I suppose. I don't know. So I only say that in reference to what you said, which is, you know, I don't know. I don't know if they're getting funny or more tragic.

I guess it really depends on. on this person or that person can you talk a little bit about the Peter Schneider character so I know you've been you've been friends with a lot of older filmmakers and you've had mentors over the years and there's something very tragic about that character and sad

and I was just curious to hear you talk about kind of where he came from yeah well I mean he's it's I mean I've known versions and had experiences versions of experiences of that from, you know, teachers, parents, other people in the industry, you know,

people who I admired who when I met them were less, weren't where they were, you know. I mean, there are sort of, there is in that scene, and of course, with his name, there is a, you know, a connection to Peter Bergdanovich, who I was very close with, who when, I met him in the 90s was had a kind of strange place in his life and career and

I mean strange meaning only in reference to the fact that he'd had such massive success and and was sort of in a place where he was looking to get some movies made and um

and having trouble and uh it's such an interesting thing because it also speaks to how, you know, when we the way we see people, like the way we see our parents, I mean, this is a theme in many of my movies are, you know, where there are heroes.

I mean, they're, they're always grown up knowing there are you know at least that's how we know them only is that they know how it's done and we don't and then there becomes a point where you know a little bit more and maybe you see that they knew a little bit less and and you know and even later when you end up to the ages of your where your parents you can remember them quite clearly and you're like oh shit like that person I was putting all this you know uh talking you know like their opinions you know and you know, that's me now, you know, and, you know, but also obviously with mentors and people that, you know, you looked up to. And of course, in the movie business, these people can be

larger than life. And they, you know, and when you meet them for the first time, you know, it's, you're still the kid sitting in the theater, seeing that director's movie for the first time. And then if you develop a relationship with them and a friendship, then obviously something else happens. And, you know, we see that in that scene with Peter and Jay. You know, and it's, yeah, it's that, I mean, I find it, it's really sad too. And also really sad the thing of like, you know, people have so much trouble say like, you know, these like lions of our industry of trouble getting a movie made or something and, you know, and then they pass away and then the tributes pour in and everybody talks about what an amazing, you know, thing.

And, you know, you do wish they could have gotten a little more of that when they were still there. Yeah, I was wondering how much of it you see even yourself in, because there's definitely a Dickensian Christmas past, present, future quality to the way that Jay is going through the stages of his life in the film. Are you seeing any of yourself in Peter Schneider? or any like cautionary tail quality to it? Well, I saw it in terms of Jay.

I mean, in terms of like, Jay is like one rung down, you know, and he's still, you know, has, you know, he's still got whatever, cachet power in his world. But, you know, he's getting older and it's movie stars are not a thing that we tend to want to get older. I mean, there's so many examples, you know, Carrie Grant retiring before, you know, because he didn't want people to see him get old on camera.

I mean, he, you know, he kind of, which is probably his own sort of vanity, but also even his own protection of the Kerry Grant brand in some sense, you know. I just was listening to someone talk about how he was offered below. Alida and turned it down because he couldn't see the idea of disassembling his on-screen persona for that movie. Yeah, I think that's, I, Baganovich told me that he, at one point, I guess, was maybe going to direct Heaven Can Wait, and with Beatty, and they wanted, Bady wanted Carrie Grant, but he didn't want to be seen on camera. I think for Jay, it's, it's, you know, not only in retrospect, is it a, like, an upsetting event, you know, Peter coming to him, you know, asking him for his name, uh, because Peter passes away, of course, so it's something you can't take back or, you know, you can't have another experience after that with this person that you loved. but I think also I'm sure

there's also that feeling for him of like that might be me next you know I mean both versions it might be me looking for somebody for work and it also might be me you know passing away

you know it's this is a tricky question because you said you don't go back and look at your films but I asked Spike Lee this earlier this year if there's a movie of his that he's made that he thinks deserves a second look or another go-round in the culture that he really likes. And I don't know. Do you have a version of that for yourself?

What did he say? He said 25th hour, which I love. I feel like that's well, that's pretty well thought of. I agree. Maybe he was just shining on one of his best. Well, I mean, a more recent one, I think white noise is, does. I really like it.

I liked it at the time. And I wonder why you think maybe it didn't go into the culture as much as the previous couple of films did. I don't know. I mean, I mean, the only thing I can say is from my experience in sort of going out with it

was, for me, it was, it really was about COVID. I mean, not just about COVID, but it was as much about COVID as Eddington's about, you know, it was, and it, nobody wanted to talk about COVID. I mean, they still don't, you know, and, and I can't blame them in some sense, but I also thought, well, it's not act literally about it, it's, it's, it's, it's, You know, I think about how hard it is for us as a culture to process sort of disaster or, you know, pandemic in that case and, and, you know, how we internalize it and essentially put it in our entertainment and, and, and, but when it really happens, it feels unreal to us. So, I guess I felt like nobody wanted to sort of take it on that way. So then they were taking it on in another way, which wasn't, it wasn't sort of how I intended the movie.

You know, but it's always, you know, you're always sort of, Brian says in the documentary we've made, You're always judged he gets the fashion of the moment. So it's sort of like, you know, that's out of your control. Yeah. I mean, I think Ari encountered that a little bit this year, too, with Eddington. But, well, you know, when you, I assume when you were growing up and watching films, the idea of making something very contemporary that was focusing on what was happening, was very celebrated.

And now we're kind of, there's some discomfort with that. It feels like in the culture, too. I know you see, like, movies, like, to be or not to be or something that's, like, taking on I mean taking on but also would make

poking fun at you know Hitler and Nazi Germany and it's like 1943 or something that movie you know or all the president's men

or something like that I mean white noises was it was different because it was not literal and it's you know it was taking place in the 80s

it's from this book it sort of has this other thing but I do I do think that I hope people will look at that again over time and you know at least give it another shot no we end every episode of this show by asking filmmakers what's the last great thing they've seen have you seen anything you like

recently um oh yeah i mean what would be the last great thing i mean in terms of um you know what i watched again i mean this is not uh i i've seen it many times but i hadn't seen it in a little while was small change the true phone movie we projected it um and uh had you seen that recently it's been a long time it's it's amazing it's so good i mean it's sort of like i mean another movie i remember at the time at least the way it was kind of contextualized from me when i first saw it i mean i didn't see when it came out but when i first saw it whenever that was it was it was sort of like the like a lighter 400 blows like it's kids but it's too young Like a young boy,

young girl, right? Well, it's more ensemble than that, really. It's mostly these boys that did this, in this provincial school and the teachers and sort of the, it really is, it's very, I mean, it's almost like, in a sense, kind of alt-mini in that way of, like, it's a tableau.

And the end, ending of it brings a boy and a girl together. But I just loved it again. I mean, I just loved seeing it again. And then I was also thinking like it's, I mean, I don't know, as good as, but it's like, it's totally, in its own way, it's as good as 400 blows.

It's like, it just, and I was think of like Truffo getting sort of a bad rap during the 70s that he was like selling out in someone. I mean, it's such horseshit. Those movies are so good. it. And anyway, that was the last thing I saw that I really like, I mean, it was like a week and a half ago, but it was like it really like,

Greta and I just were like talking about it for days. It's a great recommendation. Noah, congrats on Jay Kelly. Thanks for coming back. Thanks, Sean. It's nice to talk again. Thank you to Noah Baumback. Thank you to our producer, Jack Sanders,

for his work on this episode. We will be back on Friday to talk about Hamnet and The Secret Agent and our favorite performances of 2025. And what else? Will the Netflix thing be done? Yeah, definitely. It'll be closed. Yes.

But it won't be a Netflix thing. It will be David Allison. We'll now be in charge of your life. Well, all right. We'll see you then. You know,