The Big Picture - ‘The Banshees of Inisherin’ and Top 5 Movie Friendships

Episode Date: November 5, 2022

Chris Ryan joins Sean and Amanda to dive into Martin McDonagh’s new film, ‘The Banshees of Inisherin,’ a reunion of Brendan Gleeson and Colin Farrell from McDonagh’s 2008 cult classic, ‘In Bruges,’ (1:00) before sharing their top 5 movie friendships (38:00). Then, McDonagh talks with Sean about the making of his new film (1:10:00). Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guests: Martin McDonagh and Chris Ryan Producer: Bobby Wagner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

An Instagram post gets an unexpected boost. A TikTok catches in the algorithm. Sometimes that's all it takes to launch someone into internet fame. But then what? This Blew Up is a new podcast documentary that reveals how social media stardom is made. It's a different kind of fame that's not always as glamorous as it looks. From Spotify and the Ringer Podcast Network, I'm Alyssa Bereznack. You can listen to This Blew Up on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

Get groceries delivered across the GTA from Real Canadian Superstore with PC Express. Shop online for super prices and super savings. Try it today and get up to $75 in PC Optimum Points. Visit superstore.ca to get started. I'm Sean Fennessey. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about the feckin' Irish.

On today's show, we will be diving into Martin McDonough's new film, The Banshees of Inisharen, a reunion of Brendan Gleeson and Colin Farrell from McDonough's 2008 cult classic In Bruges. We'll also be sharing our top five movie friendships on the show. After that, McDonough will join me for a chat about his new film. Very exciting to talk to him. I hope you'll stick around for that. First, our dear friend, CR, Chris Ryan, is back. Hi, Chris. Are you coming down the pub at 2 p.m.?

Chris, you're a huge fan of Martin McDonagh. Sure. You've got some Irish blood. Fuck yeah. Amanda, you don't have any Irish blood. I don't think so. Okay. You don't think so?

You're not sure? Well, you know, it all gets... There's been some genealogy, but I'm not like you. I don't have like a full 23 and me result. Let's bring in Henry Louis Gates Jr. Sir, can you examine our DNA? I'm really excited to talk about this movie. This is one of my favorite movies of the year.

I love Martin McDonagh's movies. Rough sketch of this movie, set on a remote island off the coast of Ireland. Podrick is devastated when his buddy, Calm, suddenly puts an end to their lifelong friendship. With help from his sister and a troubled young islander, Podrick sets out to repair the damaged relationship by any means necessary. However, as Calm's resolve only strengthens,

he soon delivers an ultimatum that leads to shocking consequences. Chris, what did you think of The Banshees of Inisharen? I loved it. Probably my favorite movie of the year. Non-top gun maverick department. I don't think that I've seen a film that sort of took me on the roller coaster of all possible emotional reactions you can have to something where it's just so delighted and laughing at this coen brothers-esque kind of romp in the beginning and then honestly like in in

pieces at the end of the movie just absolutely shattered amanda what do you think oh i thought it was fantastic i do feel a little bit like I'm imposing on a conversation between the two of you about a movie about the two of you and your friendship in a lot of ways, you know, I was like, so I see myself as more like a mediator role. I'm a Siobhan and there is a Siobhan is very intentionally in the movie. It's there's a place for me. Um, no, I thought it was very moving. And I did watch it at a bit of remove than just, you know, this is a movie about two men working through it or not working through it as the case may be. And so I experienced or witnessed that a lot

in my own life, you know, and I felt really attached and connected to it, I guess. It's interesting because the way that McDonough has framed some of this story has been talking about it through the lens of a breakup. And I think in some cases, a romantic breakup. But what he's captured in the film is a very recognizable and discreet tension between male friends. You know, he has a very interesting point of view on something that we don't necessarily see. We see a lot of male friendships in movies. We don't necessarily see the end of a male friendship in a movie.

And this one is very intentional, very allegorical, metaphorical, what Calm's decision to sort of pour himself into what he thinks is the purpose of his life and take himself away from what he thinks is sort of the waste of his life, which is represented in Podrick.

Gleeson plays Calm and Colin Farrell plays Podrick. And you could probably read the movie in a number of ways, but for me, the easiest way to read it is not as like some big concept about like warring nations or, you know, the history of societies, but just sometimes you change your focus and you lose touch and you make different decisions. That's such a you interpretation of this. But I thought it was, I thought it was like a really interesting rendition of that. And then also just like the pain that like either having empathy or a lack of empathy for that experience, you know, like I was thinking about you and like how you are. Here we go. This movie is definitely about me and CR in a lot of ways. That was my first reaction when I saw it.

I was like, this reminds me so much of my friendship with him. How weird it must be to be friends with me sometimes. And likewise, how weird it is to be friends with you. But... This is not what I was anticipating. What were you anticipating? Talking about the Irish Civil War and fables. Were you?

But were you? No, of course I do. I think it's really interesting though that he seems to be both people when I was watching the movie. And I think in many ways like no one is just

the person who's like I need to pour myself into the life of my art. And not everybody is just like we need to go to the pub at 2 p.m. every day and get hammered and that's our life.

And so he almost like split himself in half is what it feels like and showed the two warring sides of his personhood, which I thought was really like a really interesting way to set up a dramatic struggle. You know, like it was it's not a movie about two friends, a movie about a guy who's like, should I spend all my time working on my plays and my films or should I spend all my time just getting smashed? Because that's life and that's fun and life is kind of meaningless so let's just enjoy it while we can yeah I mean I you identify something with the McDonough that I think is pretty interesting from everything that I've read about him his sets are very congenial and pleasant and like he's like you do not need to

yell to get good art you know like I try to like I'm very touched by the story of uh one of the animals in this movie Jenny Jenny. He loved so much that he paid for its retirement into perpetuity and it can just roam Ireland and not work anymore. So he's this lovely guy who is pretty driven and

cutthroat and is almost like, the reason I don't do plays anymore is that movies are faster and it's important for me to get all this shit out of me while I am still of sound mind and body and like this kind of very singular driven vision of humanity which is really really dark you know and sometimes in the past few films I think with psychopaths and three billboards there was a lot of ornamental stuff happening whether it was an outsider's view of america or um you know some of the more comic tarantino-esque flourishes that he would

add in but this is kind of getting at an almost primal elemental cave drawing level story like i think that this story it's very purposely set in 1923 but it could be 2022 it could be 1843 it could be whenever. It's about basically people who arrive at a crossroads and are like, what is a life worth living? Is a life worth living leaving something behind that will live on into the future? Or is it having every day be pleasant? Or every day be something that gives you a little bit of joy? It reminded me a little bit of that conversation in The White Lotus. I don't know if you watched that this weekend, Amanda,

but just the conversation about do you read the news or do you not read the news? Yeah. And those who read the news and are enduring the struggle of life and looking at the world beyond themselves, and those people who are like, I don't care about the news. What I want to do is drink an Aperol Spritz and relax. And he does put his finger on that. Chris and I obviously love Martin McDonough.

Yeah. I've seen multiple Martin McDonough stage plays. I'm a huge fan of his films. I thought Three Billboards Outside of Bing, Missouri was simultaneously his most complex film and also probably his worst film. And this feels like a really amazing kind of return to the person that I fell in love with.

Not just because of Ireland, though that's obviously a huge part of it and he feels more comfortable. What do you make of his movies? I mean, it's notable that Three Billboards is the only film I can think of where there's a female, a woman character as the protagonist. And, you know, that was not without its controversies. Though I actually, I really liked mcdormand performance um and i thought

that whatever the failings of that movie giving a female character an opportunity to experience to like express some of that anger and just kind of like nastiness and the ugliness of humanity that is definitely a theme of the rest of his his movies um was was interesting i liked seeing it so that's a way of saying it's very boy stuff but that i don't mean that in a dismissive way i think that he is a pretty fascinating excavator of male frustration and like emotions or repression really and how men try to and fail to speak to each other and speak to the world and to chris's point like make a imprint on the world and fail at that as well um i think he's quite funny like i i like the dark comedy aspect of it and the wittiness and the talkiness that always like appeals to me as well so i i don't know if i'm a fan but i admire

his work it does but you know but it is just very funny it is boy stuff uh one thing that i thought recommended three billboards was i felt him taking a step forward as a filmmaker, like getting much more interested in images as opposed to dialogue. Um, this movie even more so, it's more stripped down, but I think more beautiful in a lot of ways. What do you, what do you make of him as a director at this point? I think for some reason I associate him with Mamet. So Mamet's another playwright turned filmmaker who I think makes films very much in the service of his words. So there's not a lot of distraction when it comes to the visuals.

There's not going to be a moment where you're like, I'm too busy admiring this tracking shot or this push in that like, you know, he trusts his scripts so that you don't need to do a push in shot to say this is an important speech you know and that can read on the surface as either invisible or slightly dull i did not feel that way about this movie like i felt like i was watching dutch paintings for most of it and then also i thought that the way that the movie turns and and this is the thing that I kind of want to talk about most with this film, is the way it starts out as this sort of... It essentially starts out as Burn After Reading and turns into No Country for Old Men.

You know, like it kind of has this twist in the middle. It's not even a twist, but it just gets darker and darker and more and more sad as the movie goes on. But the visuals subtly change with it so that it goes from this like, come to Ireland, oh, it's good crack, to these people are in a prison. They are in a floating prison.

So one thing that's notable, I think, with what you were saying too, Amanda, about the violence is that in his previous films, they are about that kind of rage and anger and that primal feeling of frustration that the mostly male characters, though, in the case of Francis McDormand's character, hers as well, they take out on other people. He makes a lot of revenge movies. This is a movie where most of the violence is really inward and it's really against oneself as like a, you know, a biblical act of sacrifice in a lot of ways. And to sort of taunt someone with self-mutilation.

I mean, that's really what the story is about, which is something that is, you know, like, it's pretty easy to leap to how the artist feels when they put something out in the world that feels like you've had your finger cut off. You know, it feels like you've had a hand cut off in the way that people evaluate you. You could be a little squeamish at times.

How did you feel about this one, the way that the violence was rendered? It didn't seem excessive or like, you know, it's not going for that shock. Like, oh, that was so gross. He got his hand off, even though it like definitely is gross. And everyone in my theater was audibly responding to it. Like, oh, no, even though, you know, he made it pretty clear he was going to keep doing it, you know, but there was a sense of suspense and reaction.

I was okay with it. Horror, you know, scaredy cats, you don't need to skip this movie. Do you feel the struggle of the central conflict in your life? I'm being a little glib, but I'm also quite curious. Like, do you feel like there is a division between I need to devote myself to the art of making really good episodes and the hottest take versus what I want to do is go to Hawaii?

Yeah. I mean, everybody feels this. And also, even when you're doing stuff that feels like, oh, I'm making things, you're like, am I making the right thing? Is the thing I'm making big enough? Is the thing I'm making completely disposable and nobody will ever remember it? And I'll look back and I'll just be like I talked about the Sixers a million times in my life that was a waste of you know like yeah I

cared more about this thing than the people making it cared about it like I'm constantly at war with like what what is like a useful life you know are you really. But I also, I didn't watch this. I understand that it is quite literally like a man wants to write his songs rather than talk to his friends. And there is a lot of artist and art drama in it. But like, you know, I don't have a ton of patience for that, honestly. And I kind of even felt that the film was slightly self-aware in terms of like the self-loathing. And to your point, I don't know whether it's McDonagh splitting his personalities. But the idea that the Gleeson character is a real jerk in deciding to do this.

I mean, he's just kind of being cruel. And to me, the larger point was about do you live your life in service of yourself or connecting to others? And how much of a, how much do those two things oppose each other? And also what frankly can happen when you invest too much in yourself and how something very small can spiral out of control. To Chris's point, I don't think it's an accident that this film is set when it is in terms of the Irish civil war, war which you know chris

copy and pasted a wikipedia summary which is you know one i looked at after the film so it's not like i'm sort of expert and sat in the movie being like wow this is like an incisive look at irish politics and like 1920 but you know they mentioned like a civil war like fair off in the distance you can literally hear bombs going off you know there's mention like a civil war, like off in the distance. You can literally hear bombs going off. You know, there's like a zoom on the calendar turning to 1923 to let you know when it is. And so to me, what resonated with me was to Chris's point of like, how do you make of your life but like how much of your life are you supposed to invest in yourself versus someone else and is there um what are the consequences of

prioritizing yourself I think over any over anyone else and also what happens when everyone prioritizes themselves yeah I thought McDonough definitely was aware of the pitfalls of Colm's. Yeah. First of all, the only time anyone ever evaluates Colm's music is when Colin Farrell's character says that's a shit song. I don't know that Banshees of Innocence is a beautiful song. It's unfinished for most of it. It gets harder for him to compose and write as he keeps chopping off his fingers. And I loved of, I loved

the idea that this guy thinks that he's doing something so noble, you know, that by like dedicating himself to creating great art because of Mozart, who he misplaces in the history of music anyway, and might have written something that would be forgotten anyway, you know, like that you can't necessarily account for what does or doesn't live. Yeah, McDonagh doesn't do heroes and villains binaries. I think that's one of the reasons why there was so much distortion,

like distorted static around the conversation with Three Billboards especially. I don't know that he even necessarily does anti-heroes. I think when we saw him in Bruges, we might have thought these are anti-heroes, people we love who do bad things. This movie, Calm is really interesting to me

because the people that he consorts with after he abandons Podrick are other musicians, just common for artists to sort of surround themselves with a lot of people. From out of town, yeah. And a cop.

Those are his allies in this story. And that's pretty revealing. The placement of the cop is once again like a pretty dead-on-the-nose allegorical, like, hey, here's the worst guy on this island. Yeah. The guy who's meant to.

He fucking hates cops. Yeah. He fucking hates cops. And you see that in all his plays too. Which I thought was really interesting. I think I'm curious how you guys read Patrick. And we should talk about Colin Farrell then too. Because his character is presented to us as a simpleton.

You know, as an uncomplicated person. As a guy who lives a small life on a small island. He's not a hero. We feel for him deeply. I don't know. Do we like him? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, of course. I think you're supposed to. do you believe is intentional but he's um pitch perfect sliding between like that slightly like annoying endearing charismatic confused and you know crucially we learn what's going on as he learns what's going on and you we are on his emotional journey for lack of, and I hate saying the word journey. I really apologize. Um, and even how he responds to Siobhan, his sister, who is a example, by the way, of someone in the movie who is,

who also goes for what she wants, but you know, without making a big fuss of it, instead of like sitting down and staying on the Island and making like a big dramatic ceremony, it's just like, I don't know, I'd like to go do this thing and so i'm gonna go do it um and and leaves colin farrell's character pedrick as well which is sad in its own way and doesn't really care about animals but he is supposed to be i guess the i guess the simpleton but like well he's the nice guy right? And he gives a pretty dramatic speech about that.

Yeah, like, my parents were nice. Yeah, exactly, right? The Mozart speech is also about, I remember all these people for being nice. And then I think the tragedy in the film is when that gets turned, right? So I guess I certainly liked him. I think you're supposed to like him.

Yeah. It's interesting that he's juxtaposed with Dominic because it's not the sort of spectrum of it is that Dominic is the true simpleton of the island. You know what I mean? He's the real village. Village idiot is basically the way he has been with. I can't remember what the Irish slang is that they the gorm or something like that like but he's the one who's like truly the innocent of the island that just gets corrupted by like the evil forces that are present in humanity the fascinating thing to me is he takes the simpleton and has the simpleton

articulate everything that he's feeling and then he takes the artistic genius and has the simpleton articulate everything that he's feeling. And then he takes the artistic genius and has him like only staring into the ocean. We only get like a couple of insights into what calm's thinking. Like he explains it once to Siobhan, he explains it once to Patrick, but like, he doesn't really have like, most of the time he's sitting quietly next to someone else who's talking. And it's, it's almost like that. It's impenetrable why someone changes like that. You know, even maybe they don't understand themselves why one day they wake up and are like, my life's going to be different from this day going forward. And I don't care who gets left behind by that. To me, the Patrick character was more about how precarious life is.

Like you wake up one day and if you lose your best friend and your sister, you become a completely different person. You know, and that's a very, I think that the fact that he puts it on this stage that is essentially this sparse, remote Irish village is like, yeah. And imagine what would happen if two-thirds of the people you knew in the world left you. You would completely change. You wouldn't be the same person. We should say that Dominic is played by Barry Keoghan and Siobhan is played by Carrie Condon. Both amazing performances.

And I don't think the movie works without them. Barry Keoghan, who just like was born to read Martin McDonagh dialogue. I mean, he's so pitch perfect in this movie. Colin Farrell, huge figure in the CR universe. Love him. Yeah. Is this, there's a lot of speculation that

he's gonna win an Academy Award for this performance um I'm not totally sure about that to be honest because this film is a little bleak um and I don't know that do we feel he's like does he get he does get the speech as you cited Does he get the kind of redemptive power that we sometimes look for in performances like this? I'm not entirely sure. He does love the animals to the end, though. He does. Yeah. He does.

I think it's. Is it his best performance, I guess, is my question? That's a really tough thing to answer, you know. I would say that he has experienced, like, this last 10 years or so of of his career is maybe even going back to Ambrouche is like the true

McConaughey's you know like where we like we're like oh he's Matthew McConaughey's back and he's so great and he kind of did

like three movies that were really good and a TV show yep this is like a sustained body of work for the second half of for the second third

of his career that I think is like really needs to be reckoned with. I, if he doesn't get rewarded for it on this movie, I, I hope he does at some point,

but like I've been blown away by him repeatedly almost every year for the last five or six years, Northwater, you know, like, I mean, he's just now in a zone where I think he can kind of do anything. I prefer he get nominated for his work as the penguin.

I was, I think the Emmys come for that when they do the penguin spinoff. For the Arkham Asylum series. Is he really doing the penguin spinoff? He claims he is. Okay.

Wow. Oh, come on! What are you showing me here? Him as a New Yorker is great. What do you think of Colin Farrell? I don't know if we've discussed him on this show before. I'm pro.

It's hard for me to watch him at this point without thinking about Chris's love for him. You know at this point without thinking about Chris's love for him. You know, you've identified a hero of sorts. But I don't know. I was just looking at his past 10 years. I remember he worked with Sofia Coppola, my hero. He's wonderful in The Beguiled. I really liked him in After Yang, which is a movie that didn't totally work for me otherwise but he is the just emotional core and and a different way than this performance sort of but there is kind of like a an openness and

sort of a vulnerability despite sort of like the brash fast-talking charm that we associate with Colin Farrell so I'm pro I don't know whether he'll win for this. It kind of feels like the Oscars already gave out their best actress Oscar for a Martin McDonagh film to Frances McDormand. And that this is a little thornier and a little less obvious. Who's in the poll position for best actor? Who's in pole position for best actor right now? Let's set the stage for that. I'm glad you asked

because we'll probably be doing this for best actress in a few weeks when we talk about She Said. Austin Butler for Elvis. Did you see the film Elvis? I did, yeah. What'd you make of that? I thought it was like

much more enjoyable. I thought people, I thought it was, I know that it has a huge film Twitter following. It does. It's kind of a cult. Kind of watched it looking for that and like film Twitter following. It does. It's like kind of a cult. Kind of watched it

looking for that and saw why people freaked out about it. It is a very like freeze-frameable movie and I liked it but I am also like completely deaf to Elvis

as like both a pop cultural figure and he was a hero to most but never meant shit to you. I'm more of a Chuck D guy. Quote Chuck D. Yeah. I, you know,

when we talked about it, we, I it we I think we both said Austin Butler's pretty incredible in the film the film itself like I really didn't like it all I had a good time watching it I which I think

I even said walking out you ran away and at the end of the film and do what drive home do you know this write my song I mean yeah I know this I know you have. But like all screenings now will be in the same screening. Oh, and he's gone. Even if we're like literally sitting next

to each other and we walk out of the theater together and he just walks out. When you have to go pee or just like in general? No, like honestly, we just leave the theater and Sean just keeps walking and doesn't even say goodbye. Time is precious.

I'll tell you a quick story. I was with Quentin Tarantino last night at the New Beverly. Thanks for the invite, by the way. He actually was like, if Chris was a real fan, he would have been here. That's what he said to me. Well, your tweet was like, it's already sold out. Tickets are sold out. Yeah, I didn't know you were doing it.

I don't know. I don't control the tickets at the event. I don't know. Now you get a plus one? They didn't offer me one. I didn't ask. Anyhow, I bring this up because I didn't know. I don't control the tickets to the event. I don't know. Now you get a plus one? They didn't offer me one. I didn't ask. Anyhow, I bring this up because I didn't...

If Chris was a real fan of Quentin or you? Well, he didn't clarify that. Yeah. But I wonder who are you a bigger fan of? This is sort of a Banshees of Innish

Sharon-esque prompt for you. But I did the same thing to Quentin. I just walked out. We finished what we did. We had a wonderful time. We had a nice long chat. You did that to Quentin.

And then I just left. Yeah, I just walked out. Did you hear from we finished what we did. We had a wonderful time. We had a nice long chat. You did that to Quentin. And then I just left. Yeah, I just walked out. Did you hear from him afterwards being like, hey, that was weird? No, but I'm sure he's thinking about it right now. But he's not listening

to this conversation, I'm sure. So, you know, it's not about you guys. No, I know. I'm weird. I got a lot of problems. I got a lot of social disorder. No, you don't.

That's the thing that's weird is that you're actually just a quite charming, nice guy. You can turn it on and then you can turn it off, which is why this film is sort of about you. But that's okay.

That touches my heart, even though you're insulting me. Austin Butler for Elvis. Okay. Colin Farrell, Benji Savinasharan. Bill Nighy for Living. I'm not sure if either of you guys have seen that one yet. Don't even know what that is. It's a remake of Akiru, the Kurosawa film,

about Bill Nighy kind of at the end of his life. It premiered at Sundance. It's coming from Sony Pictures Classics, I think on Christmas. It sounds like some Sony Pictures Classic bullshit. Just make it impossible for me to see. And the whole people just flock. It could be The Wife 2.0. They've got like four wives right now because also aren't they The Sun?

They are The Sun. Although there are screenings for The Sun. Oh, Sony's Pictures Classic. Okay, I see. Speaking of the sun, I think Hugh Jackman is certainly in contention for his work in that film. I haven't seen that film yet,

so I can't weigh in on it. A couple of other ones that are notable. Thomas Cruise. Tom Cruise, not really on the short list. More on the long list. I guess they don't want people to watch the Oscars. Daniel Jimenez Cacho for Bardo. I think he's in contention. Maybe Chalamet for Bones and All.

Oh, I was going to ask you guys. I'm just going to answer that. Yeah. Didn't Brad Pitt classify himself as best actor for Babylon and that's very controversial? Because he's theoretically not the star. Didn't he undo it? Oh, I don't know. I thought that Damien Chazelle was like Brad Pitt is the supporting

actor but then Brad Pitt classified as the supporting actor and then but but then Brad Pitt classified as as that's not sure there was some hubbub about Diego Calvo being the star but now I don't actually know where that lands I haven't seen we haven't seen that film nobody's seen Babylon yet okay so sidebar three hours and eight minutes is that how long Babylon is yes that's fantastic I this is my reds no avatar way of water is your reds oh my god I've reds and reds too all in the same month how except one week apart that's so exciting we have children we have to get home you're just scolded me for leaving movie theaters quickly to go be with my child that's not why you leave

movie theater what am i going to do to go home and watch more movies and that's that is actually true yeah but you're what do you do you go home to crank it so what's the difference i go home and i i watch bryce harper at that's in slow motion uh the last person that is notable and is probably the biggest roadblock to colin farrell's victory is brendan frazier and the whale um which we're not going to talk about here but we are going to talk about when it comes out i saw it this week so i think that's going to be a challenge for him to to to navigate brendan frazier brendan frazier uh sat for a Q&A after the screening that I saw and he was just very, very, very empathetic

and seemed like a very decent person and really a standing ovation. People were very warm towards him. It's going to be really tough to beat that. Anyhow, any other Oscars? I mean, McDonough's always going to be nominated for Best Screenplay. I feel like every time he makes a movie

now at this point, that's a given. I could see Barry getting nominated for Sporting. That would be cool. I feel like every time he makes a movie now at this point, that's a given. I could see Barry getting nominated for supporting. That would be cool. I wonder if they'll campaign him in that way. Would you campaign Brendan Gleeson? He did SNL. That definitely seemed like

the beginning of... That was one of the funnier, like, let's have Brendan Gleeson host SNL. It was really cool, but I was surprised by that being like, he's the flagship for this movie. Did you guys ever watch The Comey Rule? No.

No. You told us a lot about it on various podcasts. I thought it was interesting. I talked to Billy Ray about it. I don't know if I thought it was good. I thought he was good as Trump. I thought that was... I'm not sure I want to watch that again,

but I thought his Trump was quite fascinating. Yeah. And I don't know why he was asked to host Saturday Night Live. He's not famous. He's a wonderful actor. He's great in Edge of Tomorrow. Oh, I thought you were going to say Troy. He's great in that too.

Yeah. I mean, he's great. He's always wonderful. Is he in Alexander too? Or no? I can't recall. Which cut? Did you like

Brendan Gleeson in this yeah he was wonderful and it was interesting I went to rewatch in Bruges last night I didn't make it all the way through because the dead kid stuff is a little it's that grim film yeah it's tough but you know

to see basically the role reversal of the energy and that they can both play both yeah he's like everything is beautiful and yeah exactly let's go look at the energy and that they can both play both sides. He's the like everything is beautiful and yeah. Exactly. Let's go look at the history.

Seems like a very intentional mirror flip in this film for sure. Is this a good movie about friendship? This is a great movie about friendship. We just don't ever get

to see them be friends although we do see Acts of Kindness by Brendan Gleeson. So there's a couple of times where he comes to Patrick's aid,

you know, during like this film and in very touching ways. And in the end, almost like there is this kind of like acknowledgement that there are still

going to be times where like they do things for one another, but that, but that he has, he has a blood oath against him. If I were brutalized

in the street by a police officer, would you pick me up and take me home? Yes. Would you? Yes. I would pick you both up street by a police officer, would you pick me up and take me home? Yes. Would you? Yes. I would pick you both up as well.

Would you already have been gone from the scene? Would you be? Would you be in the bathroom for the whole escapade? That's a funny story. Yeah, that we aren't going to ever tell on a podcast.

We're not going to tell that one on a podcast. You want to talk about movie friendships? Sure, yeah. Is there anything else we should talk about with this film?

Did you find the backdrop of Irish politics distracting? No, I thought it was actually fairly subtle. I thought it was only a handful of references to it. I think it's a big honking metaphor thing

that's in the movie. But, you know, I think his history, as someone who writes for the stage, those things are more elemental when you're writing. You kind of have to to you have to hang the idea and the backdrop a little bit more clearly in a play you can't be as subtle the same way you can't when you as an actor you can't be as subtle

and so i i find that his movies often front load a lot of those things three billboards is very so i mean it's literally in the title three billboards like look at what's on the billboards and what are they telling you about america or Or were they telling you about this primal rage inside of us? You know, how come Chief Willoughby, all that. So it didn't bother me. I don't, I'm not as much of an Irish historian as I should be though. So it's not, I mean, maybe there's more to it that I'm not fully understanding. Do you feel like you have like a real, a depth of understanding of those conflicts. It wasn't so much the conflict part as it spoke very... So I lived in Ireland for six months in 1999. So this is not in any way a complete accounting

of the Irish people and their ways. But I did find the way the arc of the film starts with, we all love to just go to the pub and see each other. And then like, they're like, by the way, we're in hell. That's why we drink all the time.

You know, like that. But the thing about the Civil War that I found so fascinating was that they're on this kind of like pastoral, beautiful island that's shot in like almost like travel vlog drone shots of like, just look how gorgeous this is and most of the people or at least you know Siobhan especially wants to escape this paradise

quote-unquote to get to a place that's literally bombing itself and that's her like that's her escape route is like this desire to get away from what most outside eyes would probably think is like this beautiful place although it does have an old woman wandering around being like, two people are going to die. We didn't talk about the literal banshee at all. Just a great touch. Yeah. Another, I think, very McDonaghy and stage play kind of, you know,

character device that he often puts in his films. I think he probably could stand, he would probably be a kind of a less commercially successful filmmaker if he started taking that stuff out of his work. Like turn the Sophocles down a little bit? Yeah. But I think he could do it. I mean, the central conflict of this film is enough.

We don't need these doom-like prophecies that are kind of being delivered on. Now, I realize that they kind of make the work and they define his point of view, but he can be a little bit more subtle. I'm kind of curious to see how he evolves as a filmmaker and as a writer, because he's got such a handle on imagery now that I almost, it's, you know, it's like the old phrase, like, say less. Like, you don't need that old woman. Right. Well, I do think he's working in fable yeah still as opposed to trying to make a

film about totally real people you're right and i think she starts out as a joke yeah and i go we hide behind the wall you know i think that opens up this this film in a lot of ways because if it was just like two old drunk guys just arguing about you know whether he needs to write a song or not like frankly my response is just like all men suck you know shut the fuck up all of you but you sit here twice weekly that is true if either of you wants to you know write a beautiful song um who's to say we haven't i write one every week it's called the big picture yeah and it is and this is your white album it is a bop yeah it's your midnights but you know what i mean like the sort of allegorical elements i i do think kind of widen the scope of what you can relate to in this film and it and and i but i know what you mean

about like what if martin mcdonough just like wrote a film or wrote a movie or play about real people you know just like actual grounded people it's not totally his style but he could try he's increasingly interested though in the real world like this is a story set for sure in the real world it's not like a zany hollywood psychopath serial killer comedy it's not a story about hitmen you know it's not it's not using these like outsized conventions it's it's grounded it's grounded you know what the absurdity of what takes place in the movie is not grounded obviously no one would actually do the things that calm does to prove a point but it's close it's edging closer and closer to a kind of realism that he has resisted

in the past which i find really interesting i mean i i don't know if that's maturation or if it's just like kind of leaning more into this form as opposed to the previous form that he wrote through. We talked about it a little bit. I mean, I think it's worth listening to that conversation. Honestly, it's a tool in the toolbox and it depends on the carpenter. You know, like I didn't particularly care for the Christ-like burial process of Michael Myers at the end of Halloween Ends. But like the sort of more allegorical, mythological,

fable-esque turns in this movie, I think deep in the film. Like to Amanda's point, I think that if it's just two guys arguing on an island, then you're like, okay, that was cool. But the idea that these two people

are in this long-running, timeless drama of souls at war with one another is really fascinating. Okay. Let's shift. Okay. Chris didn't get to talk about Jenny. It's just great animal acting. And McDonagh does get good performances.

There's some good dog acting in Seven Psychopaths. But I just thought that the animals were like actual characters in this movie. Do you like animals? Yeah. Why. Do you like animals? Yeah. Why? Do you? I'm trying to think of I've seen you interact

with an ostrich. Oh God I hate that. Well that's a very specific experience. It was awful. Yeah. It was so creepy. I thought it was wonderful.

Ostriches are so strange. Right. They're so magical. They're like they're Jurassic. They're so unusual. I know. It's just like it's a little grimy. They're like, they're Jurassic. They're so unusual. I know. It's just like, it's a little grimy.

They're a little aggressive with the feeding, you know? I'm not a fan of any birds, but especially kind of larger. Not a fan of any birds? I don't trust them. But. Okay. So you got to save that for the hottest take. That's like, I mean, there are many.

It's a Jim Harbaugh-esque take. Many films written about birds and lakes. Don't trust them. But the birds that can walk. Yeah, you don't know what's at the bottom of it. What about the ocean? Well, you don't either, but it's like vast and it's, you know, never ending. The contained kind of murky quality of the lake.

I don't know. Do you want to touch the bottom of the lake? Not really. But do you want to see the bottom of the lake? Not really. But do you want to see the bottom of the ocean like Jim Cameron? Yes, absolutely. Absolutely not. You don't want to go to the bottom of the ocean? I do not want to go to the bottom of the ocean.

So you're not interested in the film Aquaman? No. Okay. Wait, but so birds that can walk, you know, like ostriches. By the way, I'm not a biologist. So if I'm not using the right terminology here, you know, I apologize to the animal kingdom. i'm not um a biologist or a so if i'm not using the right terminology here you know i apologize are you really not a biologist i don't did you lie so but you know ostriches and then peacocks i absolutely hate it when a peacock is just roaming around you know a zoo or something they do this at the philadelphia zoo chris and i just you know like a zoo or something. They do this at the Philadelphia Zoo, Chris. And I just, you know, like, I don't want like a peacock

to have unfettered access to me. You just make it sound like it's like a peacock with a Jalen Hurts jersey. Just be like, what do you want from me? It's fucking Philadelphia. I know, you know, or just like historical places. And then the peacocks are roaming around.

Like in like Rome? Oh no, are roaming around. Like in like Rome? Oh, no. In like England? Like in manors? Yes. Uh-huh. Like National Trust situation? Absolutely not.

Interesting. This is a movie podcast? So, well, we were talking about animals. Right. If you're going to be like, oh, well, in Alfred Hitchcock's The Birds, he makes this great. Yeah. That's why I'm not going to do a hottest take because it's not an original opinion. Okay.

But specifically ground-based birds, it's a no for me. Chris, tell me about your favorite movie friendships. Okay. All of them or just pick one from my list? Who's number five for you? Number five. So we did the top five movie friendships. And this was a really like, I just let it happen.

I didn't look up a list of movie friendships. I wasn't like, what would be like look up a list of movie friendships. I wasn't like what would be representative of all different facets of friendships. I was just like, when I close my eyes and I think of like

buds on film, this is what I thought of. First was, I split between this and Butch and Sundance, but I wanted to have a Redford Newman because I just think

those guys, they fucking got on like a house on fire. And in The Sting, Robert Redford plays Johnny Hooker and Paul Newman is Henry Gondorf, the two con men at the center of The Sting. Do we not talk about The Sting enough? Well, I'm glad you asked that

because I revisited it during the pandemic and I found it a bit dull, especially relative to Butch and Sundance. It's slow. It's one of the ones that my parents tried to show me. Completely on the opposite side of that. Really? I find Butch and Sundance pretty dull.

Oh, wow. A lot of riding bikes in circles. Pass. Oh, I find it so mythic. And this thing I find to be such like expired pop. You know, like I know why it was a huge hit at the time. And I know it was appealing about it. And the ragtime music and, you know, the costumes and obviously the scams that they pull.

But I'm on to bigger and better scams at this point in my life. You got to get a little more deep. Anyway, you were saying, Amanda? Oh, I agree that it's slow. They're very handsome in it, though. They are very handsome. So that was, I think, the sting is when I first learned about. The Newman mustache, man, just cannot be beat.

He is just the king of the mustache. I love that. Anyway, you think that they have a beautiful thing. So why don't you tell us about it? No, I was just in the sting, especially it's, it's like Newman is the old hand who's teaching Redford the ways of the con, but in truth Newman is like this drunk who's kind of like hold it on by a string and gone. And, and Redford is like the kind of like, I I'm very focused on getting revenge for my partner here. So I need you to be on the ball. But I always just loved their dynamic.

So that was my number five. I do enjoy Robert Shaw in that film, I will say. Number five for you, Amanda. Bette Midler, Goldie Hawn, and Diane Keaton in The First Wives Club. I've been getting a lot of personal feedback that I, as a person on podcasts, and we as a community are not paying enough attention to First Wives Club. You've been getting a lot of feedback? Yes.

What's a lot? It's really the only thing that my actual friends. Are you going to pay to get verified? Absolutely not. Pay me. You know? You want to make money off my content? Fucking send me $20 a month.

Not nine. I think that's fair. Of course it is. I think that's a good take. Would you start tweeting a lot, fucking send me $20 a month, not nine. I think that's fair. Of course it is. I think that's a good take. Would you start tweeting a lot if you got paid $20 a month? Well, then I would have to think about my ethics, you know, and my morals. And so I don't really know. It's just easier to be like, fuck you, pay me, than to go through the naughty ethics of that.

No, but this is not Twitter. This is my friends who aren't really invested in the work that i do except to be like why hasn't first wives club been a rewatchables which is a complex answer that i have nothing to do with but this is a delightful film uh three middle-aged women who were friends in college then you know went off to pursue their lives. Their lives and specifically their marriages didn't work out as they had hoped. And so they team up to get revenge on their husbands and make new lives for themselves

and then saying, you don't own me in white suits, which is a true active friendship. And I do think female friendship, at least in the 80s and 90s in films and the 2000s, is best expressed through choreographed performances to songs. So this is the one for me. Who directed The First Wives Club? I looked at it last night, but I don't remember. Don't be a snob. I'm not being a snob. I'm asking you a question.

I don't know who directed it. I would assume it's Paul Schrader, but I'm not sure. Chris, have you seen The First Wives Club? I think in bits and pieces on cable, but I don't know that I've ever sat down. Oh, I know what I was going to bring up the last bit of Banshees content that I wanted to ask you about. Did you wear this sweater because of Banshees? The sweaters are unbelievable. I can't believe I forgot to bring this about. Did you wear this sweater because of banshees? These sweaters are unbelievable. I can't believe I forgot to bring this out.

I didn't. I wore it because it's raining in Los Angeles. But holy shit. I want to know how they're sourcing them. Do you think that they were like knit for this particular? I got to say they got a lot of sweaters in Ireland. But it was like immaculately sourced sweatering. And I think you should start wearing

sweaters with suspenders. I'm not against it. I will say I'm not against it. I'm also reaching the age where I need a different way to pull my pants up as my dad bod develops. The feral red double lapel sweater. But then they also had sweaters that were clearly like the same pattern but different yarns which is just the attention to detail that I'm looking for

in my peak sweater content because on an island in 1923 you know they would only have like certain they wouldn't get fancy with it.

You know? I just thought that those guys were reclaiming layering from Adrian Brody and Steve Bannon and that was great. I thought A.O. Scott

cited the costume designer in the film in his review which I that was great. I thought A.O. Scott cited the costume designer in the film in his review, which I thought was very on point. It felt like a lot of Shetland wool that was hand-knit for the characters, which is part of what makes it really cool. The production design also, as Chris said, they do all look like Vermeer paintings.

I clocked every single piece of, you know, lovingly worn antique furniture. Just an incredible... What's it called? The dish display cabinet. Oh yeah, I don't know. The word eludes me, but it was like a coral color.

Very beautiful. Yeah. The director of the First Wives Club is Hugh Wilson. He also directed the film Police Academy. Did he do? No, I was going to say, did he do Chariots of Fire?

No, he did not do Chariots of Fire. He did Guarding Tess. Did John Avildsen do Chariots of Fire? No, he did not do Chariots of Fire. He did Guarding Tess. Did John Avildsen do Chariots of Fire? He did not. You think Chariots of Fire will be a rewatchables? Probably not. It's possible that the director of Chariots of Fire is Hugh Hudson. Different Hugh.

Just a couple other movies that Hugh Wilson directed. A Hutch is what it's called. A hutch. A hutch. That's the furniture. I feel like you're doing this just to be condescending to me because I picked

a classic featuring women which by the way neither of you did on either of your lists. That's not true. So you picked half. It doesn't count. And I asked you about

picking a... You did but the fact remains. Look at how you've been completely spun out by what films did hugh wilson you're just being a dick you just you've just been completely detached uh he also directed dudley do right okay you seen that one which one is that maybe i have brennan frazier it's an adaptation of a cartoon uh no i don't think i have okay uh what's my number

five i don't even remember. Oh, yeah. This is great. Edward Norton, Philip Seymour Hoffman, Make Me Ugly, Barry Pepper in 25th Hour.

Beautiful. Which is, I was reminded of this movie watching Banshees. Yeah. Because it's not, you know, Banshees is not,

as you said, Chris, about a pure loving friendship. It's about a fractured friendship. And this is a movie about fractured friendships. And, is a movie about fractured friendships. And, you know, I don't know. How in touch are you guys

with your friends from high school? I am in cursory touch with them. Yeah. I wouldn't say it's like... Cursory touch? We don't have a group chat. I see. But every once in a while I chat.

What about you? I'm in touch with one friend from high school who might be listening to this. Hello, Jim. Otherwise... I know Jim. Yeah, you guys know Jim. Sat sat at our table at my wedding.

Jim and I bonded. Otherwise, I'm not in touch with anyone from high school. Well, that's not true. Then like a family friend who I'm also in touch with. Oh, who also might be listening to this. Hi, Drew, if you are. Otherwise... You better not forget anybody else. I know. Otherwise, but I'm really in touch with friends from college. A couple of boys, huh? Yeah.

Interesting. Your life always boys, huh? Yeah. Interesting. Your life always reveals itself in these podcasts. You know what? Anyway, I'm in touch with like my best friends who you also know from college. Or yeah, I'm still in touch with all of them. Um, I'm in touch with a lot of my friends from high school. Um. Right.

Because you're married to one of them. Uh, that's, that's a very good point. Although we were not, I guess we were friends before we got married. Anyhow, um, the guys that I'm friends with... Do they listen to this podcast? A couple of them do. And a couple of them are sophisticated fellows.

Very successful. And a few of them are dirtbags and hilarious. Do the dirtbags listen to the podcast? Some do and some don't. I mean, I love them all. Do the dirtbags listen

to East Coast Bias? If they don't, they should. That's on the Ring or Gambling feed. But this movie reminds me, I think, of sometimes the unusual developments of life that come up amongst men where you have a lot in common when you're in high school together.

And then you get older and you start to think about what you're interested in and what the other person's interested in. In this case, it's like an English teacher, a drug dealer, and a guy who works on Wall Street. And their lives have moved in very different directions.

And I just like the way that it's rendered. It's probably my second favorite Spike Lee movie. It's a very important movie to me personally. But I really love the way that they're rendered. It doesn't hurt that it's Edward Norton and Philip Seymour Hoffman and the great underrated Barry Pepper. It's just an absolute ride.

Your tie looks like an optical illusion in one of my favorite lines. It's the best. Okay, that's my number five. Chris, what's your number four? Tim Robbins and Morgan Freeman as Red and Andy in Shawshank Redemption.

I thought about putting this on. I was hoping one of us would put it on. I love this one for a variety of reasons, but the one I think I'd shout out is that it's rare that you get to see

a friendship over the course of decades take place in a movie. I love the depiction of their sort their initial wariness of one another, then their deep bond, and then the kind of sadness that comes with Andy escaping, but then the joy that Red has when he says, I just want to see my friend again. And he meets him in Z. Wantoneo.

Spoiler for Roshan Shanker Redemption. You and Andy are a Red. She's a Red. Definitely a Red. a Red? she's a Red definitely a Red what are you? I think I'm a Red actually what am I? you're an Andy you're always leaving

getting in your Tesla and going to Z1 today Amanda what's your number 4? Matthew Broderick and Alan Ruck as Ferris Bueller and Cameron Fry so you know this could be a point of conversation Broderick and Alan Ruck as Ferris Bueller and Cameron Frye.

So, you know, this could be a point of conversation. Because is Ferris a good friend to Cameron? Is, like, up for debate, maybe? I don't know. He puts him in some challenging situations, you know, really pushing boundaries. But I also find that to be pretty accurate to what friendship, especially like teenage friendship is really like which is like sometimes your friend just being an asshole yeah yeah it's just like I don't want to do this but why are you making me do this and in in some ways they bring out the best in each other yeah I think he's good for

him yeah yeah I like it I mean this is one unless unless wait what's the theory that Ferris or Cameron is the figment of the other's imagination? Ferris is the figment of Cameron's imagination. It's like he's his id come to life. Well, I don't know. Invisible friends are important too.

Sure. Imaginary friends. But you're a Ferris. Uh-huh. And we're Camerons. Yeah, we're Camerons. Right? You guys are both Camerons?

I think so. Yeah, don't you think? I think so. And how am I a Ferris fueler? Well, I mean, Amanda and I are very anxious. I love karaoke. You live freely. Yeah, don't you think? I think so. And how am I a Ferris Bueller? Well, I mean, Amanda and I are very anxious. I love karaoke. You live freely.

Yeah. You do. I could see you in the parade. Do you wish that your persona was more like, I'm locked down and I overthink things? I do not. Right, because it's not. But I'm surrounded by people who are like that, though.

Are you attracted to it? Yeah. Why? Because it's not me. You guys aren't attracted to things that are different Are you attracted to it? Yeah. Why? Because it's not me. You guys aren't attracted to things that are different than you? I don't know. Am I?

I guess I am. That's pretty similar to me though. I really like doing this show with you guys. You guys seem really weird. I was just thinking about how Ferris would be a good Halloween costume for Knox next year

and then I could be Cameron. Do you want to talk about your movie inspired costume this year? How many years of Halloween costumes do you get to dictate before it's like, no, I'm Thanos. But like,

you can be like, you can be like, you're going to be Jack Nicholson from Terms of Endearment this year. And nobody, you know, like the one person who gets it

is like, this is transcendent. Right. Yeah. But then one day, Knox will be like, I'm never going to watch movies from the 1980s.

You will make me. I just want you to know that next year Eileen and I and Alice are going to come over as Wanda, Gamora, and Star Lord.

If Knox is not dressed as Thanos, we're in big trouble. Are you going as Gamora? Yeah, obviously. Is Alice more open to Thanos now in

her Alice book? She loves Thanos. She does? Not as much as Knox but okay oh that's very nice yeah nox page is a focus right in the book yes in real life we're still working on it very confused by him um this year my son went as joel from risky business in the uh the dancing the bob seger scene yeah um but not a lot of people recognized it in practice on the street, you know, because he was in a stroller.

He doesn't really like to wear the sunglasses. Someone clocked it really well. Yeah. And was like, yes. Yeah.

This was more for the pictures. Maybe if you had a sign on the stroller that says sometimes you just got to say what the fuck. Yeah. You did suggest that we just get a boombox

and blast a little time rock and roll as we pushed him around. But it was pretty chaotic in a good way where we were all trick-or-treating. We did all trick-or-treat together, which was very cute. So it might have gotten dragged out. A lot of fucking minions out there. Yeah. So many minions.

Would it have been better if I dressed as Rebecca DeMornay in her negligee and joined him? Yeah. Would people have gotten him, what do you think? I definitely think so. Yeah. But as Gamora. Gamora. Gamora DeMornay and her negligee and joined him. Yeah. Would people have gotten him or you think? I definitely think so. Yeah. But as Gamora. Gamora, Gamora de Mornay. You said, you said, yeah, you said Ferris and.

Yeah, Ferris and Cameron. That's because Knox would be Ferris. He has the sunglasses and then I would be Cameron. My number four is, is Bill Murray's Bob and Scarlett Johansson as Charlotte in Lost in Translation. This is another kind of a friendship that I like in movies, which is one that does not exist at the start of the film and develops over the course of the film.

Do you think of this movie as a romance or as a story of friendship? Well, I kind of think it's both. This is my number three, by the way, because you're not going to take Sofia Coppola away from me. But this is a movie. I do think it's a romance. Well, you don't really know. It's sort of that like nebulous underpinning of their relationship and also the fact that it ends.

Spoiler alert. Sorry that there is something like romantic and, you know, kind of like a type of friendship that definitely exists where people have like sort of different feelings about each other and you never really like know how it works out and also I hope that you know friendship underpins any like long-term romantic relationship otherwise it's not going to work out but yeah I think that this is a way that, and like a pretty recognizable, if like specific and almost like fairytale-esque display of like a recognizable type of relationship of people who meet and connect for a short period of time and then move on with their lives. It's a passing friendship slash romance. I think that it's, so this weirdly connects to my number three, but it's that kind of way in which circumstances can warp friendships

and make the sort of traditional boundaries of friendship disappear or seem fluid to one person. And mine's more like, are these guys lovers or are these guys friends and stuff? So I have River Phoenix and Keanu Reeves in my own private Idaho, like are these guys lovers or are these guys friends or and stuff so i have i have um river phoenix and keanu reeves in my own private idaho but it's not dissimilar from lost in translation where it's like obviously like maybe bill murray or scarlett johansson's characters have different

feelings about what's happening at various points in the movie right and they're also drawn to each other in a specific way that in other situations, maybe we think of as romantic, but like friendships can have as well, especially young friendships. I find, you know, people just kind of like, I'm really, you know, kind of infatuated with you in one way or another.

So yeah, no, I think that fits well. Yeah. Well, one thing that both of these that you guys have picked here and that I picked too, i think have in common is it's very hard to render to people having fun in a movie you know like it that seems obvious and seems kind of dumb but when like the karaoke scene in in lost in translation they are they're that thing you're talking about is happening they're kind of falling for just being around each other

and the same is true I think in that in the Flophouse scene in My Own Private Idaho where like they're doing the Shakespeare and you see this kind of kinetic energy

between Reeves and Phoenix and you're like these guys just love hanging out they love being together and that's actually pretty hard to like

that is movie magic to me you know it's also like this is a you know this is a movie know and this is a movie where like it's this moment in time as like scott the kiyanin character is going to eventually sort of start going back towards his traditional family life as rich father and it's based on

emory the fourth and mikey is kind of like well i'm stuck here you know i'm always going to be this hustler who's out here like you know hitching rides and yeah so like that that brief moment where they're equals before scott's like i'm gonna come back and run my dad's company love my own private idaho it'll never be real right but it's such a wonderful movie i was like when i saw it i was like i did not know movies could do this yeah it's an amazing movie um my number three is not my own private idaho it's woody and buzz in in toy Toy Story. I took my daughter Alice to the doctor recently. And we're in the waiting room. There's a TV in the corner of the waiting room.

And I was playing Toy Story 2. And she just, she connected to it. I could just see on her face, what's that? I want that. And it's because it's very simple. And it's about toys. Obviously, kids love toys but alice doesn't even really know what toys are at this point there's just something kind of primal kind

of calm and podrick about woody and buzz and it's like a it's an oft rendered friendship it's i'm sure inspired by butch cassidy and the sundance kid and all these other history of friendships but um for me a big one a movie i love and I will not hear any negative feedback on Toy Story. We didn't say anything. Chris, I did want to let you know, I forgot to text you this, so I'll just do it now in public. You were viewing Disney Plus content.

On the Watch is a short-form podcast that I would subscribe to. You've now seen more sister content to Inside Out than I have. Riley's first date. Yeah. And then also Lava, I guess, played before. I've seen Lava. Yeah, right.

Lava. You know when you go to the Inside Out? I think we saw Inside Out together. Just me and you? No, I think you and me and Eileen and Phoebe went at the theater. Did you love it? I thought it was enjoyable. I didn't expect to be watching it again in my life, but

there you are, babysitting. Did you not cry at Bing Bong? What happens to Bing Bong? I don't know. You just watched the film. No, but I think I might have been reading about the Brazilian election while that was happening. Bing Bong disappears. It's sort of a metaphor for the death of innocence. Right. You remember Bing Bong.

Of course I do. I wept. I think Inside Out. It's masterful yeah fantastic film okay number twos uh CR uh for number two

oh yeah this was for all of us yeah I got a Clooney and Pitt as Rusty and Danny in Ocean's Eleven where is this on your list not

we conferred you brokered well no so like in a true act of friendship Chris texted to make sure it was okay if you put it on this list. I said I had two that I was thinking

of putting on mine that I figured that you would also be thinking. I didn't put it on because I assumed you would. Well, I didn't put it on because I talk about the Ocean's movies too much. And so I was like,

let me challenge myself to talk about something else. But yeah, this is beautiful. There's a bunch of these movies that reflect friendship accurately and then this is what friendship should be, which is just two dudes, like, pretty much wordlessly hanging out all the time.

Finishing each other's sentences. Knowing all the phraseology. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a good one. Yeah. Number two for you.

It's Damon and Affleck and Good Will Hunting. The best part of my day speech. I mean, come on. It's so beautiful. That's love. I know that you think that that's what you're doing every time you just leave us without saying goodbye. Because you hope that she and I start our own movie podcast. That's exactly

what I'm thinking. This is beautiful. You know? Are you a Chucky or a Will? I don't know. Am I a Chucky or a Will? I'm a Chucky. You're a Chucky. Retainer! Love Dunkin' Donuts. I'm not sure what you You're a Chucky. You're a Chucky. Retainer. Love Dunkin' Donuts. I'm not sure what you are.

Probably a Will. Yeah. Give me a little Stormy. I can? Yeah. Okay. You don't think so? I mean, I guess so.

I can be closed off. I can accept that about myself. I'm just feeling my feelings. I do think that I would enjoy confronting some Harvard asshole at a bar and quoting entire textbooks to him and just being like, oh, fuck yourself on behalf of my friend. Would really relish any opportunity to do that. Got that from Gordon Wood. Yeah.

Okay. What's my number two? I don't even remember. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. George Segal and Elliot Gould in California Split. Yeah.

Which on any given day is my favorite movie ever made. I haven't seen this movie in a while, but it's about two guys who, once again, don't know each other at the beginning of the film and meet at the racetrack and become gambling buddies. And they are really bad for each other. They get each other in a lot of trouble. And George Segal in particular,

I think he's a magazine editor, as I recall. And increasingly abandons his life to go place bets with Elliot Gould. And similar to that infatuation observation that you made, these two guys start to feed each other's bad habits in

very, very funny and amusing ways. I don't really have a gambling buddy. I never really had one. I don't really have a gambling buddy. No. I never really had one. I'm probably too weird and monastic to do it. You put in your AirPods. Yeah, I wouldn't say that you're like an inclusive gambler.

Yeah, refuse to talk to anyone. Yeah. Also, you play poker, which is not really a team sport. You can sit down at the blackjack table and be like, let's fucking go. That's true. And I'm not good at that, honestly. But poker is a part of this film, is a part of California Split.

But it's interesting the way that it's framed at the end of the movie where one guy's playing and the other guy's off to the side. And that's kind of like, that's the challenge of poker versus going to the track or gambling on a sports event.

But anyhow, people haven't seen California Split. It's a riot. It's so fun. They should also see Mississippi Grind, which is essentially... A full-blown remake. Yeah.

But it's also really good it's the best Ryan Reynolds performance I think you're right yeah and Ben Mendelsohn at its peak as well okay

number ones Sierra first okay do you want all right Elliot and E.T. it's great what

no it's this is great this is what childhood friendship is and you know he's alone. He, you know, it's idealized. It's what we all would hope for to like find someone who can, you know, make us feel less alone and fill all of the voids that, you know, our divorced parents or like all the assholes in the neighborhood have created for us.

And the sense of wonder, the adventures that they get up to together is so beautiful it's uh it makes me cry did i tell you guys i think you did et on the rewatch like nox was like two months old and it was when i was just like listening to podcasts and walking him around the neighborhoods we would sleep and i i think i just like wept for like 20 minutes during the et rewatch balls just you know I was in a vulnerable place in my life. Very beautiful movie. And the last scene, like I'll be right here. I mean, come on.

That's lovely. It's amazing. Yeah. I was trying to pick like a childhood one. I guess my own private Idaho weirdly became that. But I was like on the fence. It was the E.T. came up and Stand By Me. Yeah, of course.

Will Wheaton and River Phoenix came up. River, big figure in your life. Yeah, I mean, it's kind of like the guy who was a couple of years older than me that I thought was like just mind-blowing.

Henry Thomas is amazing in E.T. Would it have been even just like 1% better if it was River Phoenix? Casting what ifs? No? He's about the right age. Yeah.

No? Okay. I ruined E.T. for you no I just like I'm gonna keep it as it is okay that's fair Chris what's your number one Charles Grodin as Jonathan Mardukas and Robert De Niro

as Jack Walsh in Midnight Run beautiful they're not friends for 99% of this film and then their act of kindness to one another in the LAX

terminal is like the most beautiful depiction of friendship ever recorded in cinema history. This is how I think of you and I working together for the last 10 years. But it was not until this pod that we officially became friends. You are basically like, what if Jonathan Mardukas and Jack Walsh were like,

had a baby? Like an anal retentive, but also profane New York guy. It's great. Those are my two favorite guys. The Duke and Walsh. I do think that that is my signature. I hope that people recognize that beyond you, Chris. My number one is Ben Gazzara, Peter Falk,

and John Cassavetes and Husbands. If you haven't seen this movie, this is a sort of middle period Cassavetes movie. Very long drama about three buddies getting together after one of their fourth friend passes away. Sort of in the aftermath of his death and remembering their lives together. Very raucous, very inappropriate movie. Movie that, if you look at it, is very much a product of its time, 1970. But beautiful and so honest in the way that the Cassavetes movies are so honest where

you can really feel the genuine friendship, especially between Falk and Cassavetes, but Gazzara is like a house on fire, one of my favorite actors of all time. And it's unusual to see a movie like Newman and Redford didn't really know each other that well before Butch and Sundance and then they built a friendship afterwards this movie is sort of organized around

the personal relationship these guys already had and the idea of like dying masculinity and faithfulness to your partner and do you drink too much and things that you know that these guys

all talked about in their real life and they just put it into their art and obviously that's what Cassavetes does over and over again in his movies but it's a wonderful movie if people haven't seen it not necessarily healthy friendships but I think it's important to show those too yeah um yeah and sometimes you know you got to say goodbye to your friends put

them on a spaceship and then they fly away to their home planet sometimes you just got to go to the bar with them you know have a couple of shots all those are good any closing thoughts on movie friendships on on the Banshees of Innisharen? Banshees, the only thing I was wondering about is like,

is that, so is that like early Guinness that they're drinking in the glass bottle? I was wondering about that too, yeah. It looks cold,

but would it be like room temp Guinness that they're just crushing? I think so. I mean, that's quite common in Ireland, as you know.

Just curious. I've been to the guinness factory in dublin but i don't remember this part of the tour on the history will you drink a guinness i mean i will there are a few things that you put in front of me of the alcoholic variety that i won't drink um it's not what i would order no a hazy, dank grapefruit space alien. I don't do hazy, dank grapefruit. That's Zach. That's Zach.

His moment of solace every day is he goes to the beer store, a wonderful beer store in our neighborhood. The beer store? Is that a thing? Yeah. Yeah. You don't know about talent beer and wine on the corner there? He buys a beer can that looks like it was designed by Phil Wesch. Yeah.

Okay. It's amazing. I really recommend it. They're lovely people. But yeah, then Zach's just like, what weird IPA can I pick out today? 9.8 alcohol. Looks like a Woodstock poster.

Now that we finished this pod, let's bring in the Irish car bombs so we can do them together. When's the last time you guys had an Irish car bomb? I don't know if I've ever had one. Oh my God. I mean, once upon a time, they were a good way to cap the night.

Didn't you have a crazy Irish car bomb story about going out with guys from Stuff or something? Yeah, I got hired in a new job in 2005, and it was the kind of place where it was like, it's 2 p.m., let's go to lunch, aka the day's over. Let's go to La Slanta. Yeah, and I might have even been at La Slanta,

but I can't remember where we went, but my boss, this was like a Tuesday. Yeah. My boss was like, okay, we've had a beer, car bombs. And we did. It was 22, starting by like 35-year-old men with families working at a magazine. And they just did like three or four rounds of car bombs right in front of me. And obviously, I partook too.

It was fine. I had no responsibilities. I could go home at 730 and go to sleep. As a parent now, a father of a daughter what the fuck are these guys doing I'm fucking exhausted at 5pm what are you doing nevertheless

car bombs are fun I like doing a car bomb maybe this weekend what do you think guys sure yeah you want to get into it yeah

we'll do car bombs for my birthday I love it oh that's right I love it are you here for your aren't you traveling for your birthday I am but I'll be back in and around it

and the Carbombs will live forever. We'll do it. You, number one. I'm ready. You're my number one Carbombs draft pick. I'm back.

You know, I was like, I was off. I had to take some leave and now I'm ready. Okay. Thanks, guys. Let's go to my conversation with Martin McDonough on the show.

Thanks for being here. Thank you, Sean. Martin, I'm curious, when you sit down to write something new, do you know whether or not it's going to be a play or a film, or does that develop through the writing process? I always know. Usually, a play is just going to be a handful of characters, maybe four or five, and usually just in one set, let alone location, a house in a room. But the films are usually more people and landscapes and

cinema is hopefully there from the beginning too so yeah i always kind of know are you strategic about the choices you're making from project to project like for example did you know that you wanted to return to ireland after focusing a story in america after three billboards really no no i i uh didn't know any of that really and and i wrote this um this version of the script only like three years ago. So that's, I guess, like a year or two after the whole three billboards thing. So no, I never have any kind of career plan. Or if I did, I would probably have made something quite quickly after three billboards.

So I'm like, Marvel piece of crap. But as I don't, I don't care about that kind of stuff. And I prefer vacation time five years down the line and we're back in Ireland. It raises an interesting question, which is for someone who's been as prolific as you

over the last 25, 30 years, is writing difficult for you at this point? I think the blank the last 25, 30 years, is writing difficult for you at this point? I think the blank page is always scary and that sort of never goes away. And that always sort of feels or seems to feel like it's a chore to get down to it. But once you're in it,

in those few hours a day that you're doing it, it can be quite entertaining. But it's just the idea of it, like even thinking about doing something again now, it doesn't fill one with joy. But I know once I'm in it, and once it's going well, nothing beats it, really. The decision that Brendan Gleeson's character, Calm, makes in this film to end a friendship, to focus more time on his art, it certainly feels like something that a writer understands. I'm curious what actually inspired the dynamic between him and Podrick's character. I think it's probably based on me, the whole idea of, are we wasting time?

Should I be making more than one film every five years? You know, should I speed it up? And, yeah, I think that sort of imbued Brendan's side of the story, for sure. I don't think about things in as harsh terms as those. But the question of, you know, how much work one ought to be doing is sort of there. And as one gets older, I think, I honestly wonder if one film every four or five years is good enough.

And I haven't found a solution yet, but I'll wait and see, I guess. Can you tell me what's gnawing at you then? Is it the idea of legacy or feeling like you're spending your time well I think yeah it's it's legacy yeah I think I think that's part of it um and um yeah but also I think I've enjoyed the making of the last two I think uh there were more difficulties in the first two and I think that's why I kind of each time I finished I felt like I'm not going to do that again for quite some time now and especially after this one it was sort of a joy to make and to be back with friends and it was less stressful but the

least stressful of all four so that I don't have that, um, fear of, of the stress of it that, you know, anymore, I don't think so that would warrant doing more. Have you ever been a, a calm or, or, or, or Patrick, like, have you been someone who's been severed or done the severing? Um, yes, both places. I mean, sometimes I wonder which is the worst, you know, because sometimes when you know you have to break up with someone, that's a horrible feeling too. That's a sad-making one. But a lot of this was written thinking of the pain

or being in the pain of a sad breakup. And I really tried to be as truthful to that sadness as much as I could on Boric's behalf. The film takes place on an island, but the backdrop is the Irish Civil War. You know, I'm hoping you can kind of talk through the decision to set a story at that time, even though the story is somehow isolated

from those events because it takes place on an island. It's such an interesting choice. Why did you do that? I think it just adds some kind of gravitas to the simple story of a breakup. The Irish Civil War was particularly violent and it was between two sides

who were literally on the same side fighting against the British just the year before. So it was complex and it was awful and just to have that as a shadow falling across this other sad complex complex breakup story, I thought would add something cinematically to it. But I don't think you really need to know anything about that war. Just the idea of it being over there is interesting enough. But I'm kind of interested to see how audiences feel about it after the fact. I kind of don't want to put too many ideas in their heads before they see it. There's something really, really resonating, though, about the framework, because it's obviously 100 years, almost exactly in the past.

You've got a police officer as a kind of foolish antagonist in the film. You've got this idea of a very uncivil war happening between two people who are close to each other. Are you thematically constantly driving towards ideas like that? Or do those things kind of develop as you are writing through? I think that was more of a natural thing. As I said, there was no kind of big solution or opinion that I wanted an audience to get from adding that kind of stuff into it. But definitely definitely I've never had made a period film before. So that was an added bonus almost of setting something a hundred years ago. It wasn't just the civil war backdrop. It was the costumes and the locations, you know, not being modern.

I think when you, when you, when you take away, I, I, even in my modern day films, I try not to have too many cell phones or TVs or computers because that stuff ages a film so quickly. But I definitely feel like making a period film like this, it hopefully won't age as quickly as a lot of modern films. But I also see it in some ways as a Western, this movie. You know, there's the saloon that the two gunslingers keep entering and having their little fights in.

And even the costumes have a Western kind of edge to them. It's funny you say that because that was how I read a lot of Three Billboards was that there was a real true kind of American Western historical quality to the storytelling. And the other thing about that film is I feel like it was a big leap for you as a visual filmmaker. I don't know if that was something that you felt that you'd accomplished. And this feels like a continuation of that. I read that you storyboard everything, which was surprising to me given that you come from the theater. but could you just tell me about evolving as a filmmaker over these 20 years? Sure. Well, I storyboarded, yeah, all of them, even Bruges was

that too. For me, I haven't visualized, at the writing stage of it, at the script stage, I haven't really pictured it. So I don't add a lot of scene descriptions or image descriptions in the movie. It's all the basic facts of what happens and dialogue. There isn't any descriptive flowery kind of prose in there either. So then once the film's sort of finished and i know it's going to be made then the next process is storyboarding and again that can take months usually takes longer than writing the script um and that is when the images come and uh sometimes that can knock out the scene or shorten the scene because you can tell something just in images i guess um but um

yeah no definitely i always want i never wanted to make a playwright's movie i didn't want it to be you know all dialoguey i i hope you know in bruges sort of cinematic too i i think the town gave us a lot of you know cinematic beauty but again it's like two guys chatting for for um for an hour and a half this is all that too but i knew the landscape of island if we got it right would add a really beautiful uh cinematic uh dimension to it but even in terms of like i i knew we didn't want to just find a pub or find a good house for Porik. We decided to build those places in the most scenic areas of the islands. And that obviously is going to help with the cinematic sweep of the thing. How excited do you get about when you're making a period piece, the costumes and the production design and kind of building out that world since you'd never done it before?

I think the costumes is often one that I don't have a clue about, but I know if it's wrong. You know, if I'm stealing ideas, I won't know what I do want, but I'll know if I see something that I don't want. But with this especially, I wanted it, I didn't want it to be like dreary or

have a feel of a black and white image because we forget that even though we see black and white images from like the 1920s, in reality they were colourful and we just don't have that, we don't see that colour in the photos. So we really wanted to tap into rich colours, there's lots of yellows in both the costumes and inside Colum's house. And we wanted, you know, a vibrancy to the cinema of it too. Did you look at any movies

for inspiration, either about this time or the tone of the story? Not really in terms of tone or even the whole Irish aspect, but I always go back to Days of Heaven and Badlands. And Days of

Heaven especially is so beautiful that we thought if we at least aiming for that kind of landscape beauty and imagery and even like animals, there's lots of animals in Days of Heaven and Badlands, I think.

Just to give room for that stuff. That was probably our touchstone. Night of the Hunter usually pops up somehow in the shadows of Bryn Negleeson's room. We kind of touch on that a little bit. But there's usually like four or five films that are kind of banging around in my head that I'm trying to either steal from

or pay homage to. But definitely, I think Days of Heaven was the biggie for this. Your relationship with Brendan is really interesting. I don't think I realized until I just saw it this week that he starred also in your short film, which won an Oscar, Sex Shooter, many years ago. So this is a long, long working relationship.

When did you first encounter him? And what was your first meeting like? Well, weirdly, it was even before that because his son, Donal, who we all know, his first ever job was in a play of mine. So I met Brendan through that. And Brendan and I also had a trilogy of plays on in on in Galway in Ireland and Brendan came to that. So I think that was the very first time that I met him. That would have been four or five years before Six Shooter, I guess.

So so it's always been a very amicable relationship. But he sort of really did help guide me through the short film with his kindness and his generosity and having been there and done it before. So we had all that going into Bruges, but he's just a fun guy to be with. We've stayed in touch in the intervening years too. But I think we always knew we were going to do one more, maybe two more.

Was that the feeling? In Bruges has taken on, I don't know if cult status is quite right because it was quite liked at the time, but it has a big reputation now. Yeah, no, you're right. It was definitely in America. It didn't really,

not a lot of people saw it when it came out at all. And I do like, I always like cult films anyway. I like being able to discover something that not everyone knows about. And I kind of, and you always, I get a sense of that from people who come up to me who like it. It is, it feels like their own private discovery. I love that. You know,

somehow you lose something when something's a big success like a free billboards. Cause everyone's, you know, lots of people saw it at the time, but there's something very nice about a grower, you know, because the reviews of it weren't particularly great

in America anyway when it first came out. And I do like that it's sort of been re-evaluated in the years since. Why do you think that is out of curiosity? I mean, I know it's hard

to see that through your own work, but I'm curious why you think that one is really inside of people still um i don't know maybe because it seems like it's going to be one thing it seems like it's going to be a genre kind of buddy movie and it's it's got these sadder more melancholy aspects to it too at the same time as being pretty funny i I guess. And that, maybe that was just an unusual combination.

Maybe that's why it didn't do so well at the time. I remember seeing reviews that said, it doesn't know what it is. It doesn't know if it's a tragedy or a comedy. And that's kind of exactly what it is. But I think it's intervening years. If you come into my films, you kind of know that. So you're not expecting just the comedy or just the tragedy. It's going to go hand in hand.

And I like, and maybe that's why the more recent films have done better. You kind of know what you're getting into. When you and Brendan and Colin wrapped that film, did you know that you wanted to reconvene that duo for a project down the road? Not when we wrapped and probably not even when it came out, but I think in the sort of years after it came out. In fact, like it came out, I didn't do great business,

but by the end of the year, you know, Colin got the Golden Globe and I got nominated for screenplay. I think that's when sort of start the reevaluation sort of started. But it was only in like a year or two after that, that it really started this cult cult classic thing or whatever you call it. So so I think in the years since that period, we kind of, I know that Colin always says that's the one film that people always come up and talk to him about. I think partly that's partly true of Brendan too. So that all helps make one think, yeah, we've got to try and do this again. Conversely, we didn't want to let down an In Bruges fan with this one. You know, we didn't want to make a lesser film.

We definitely wanted to do something that was maybe stranger or that would push an audience, you know, test them a little bit. They wouldn't be getting exactly what they might want from an In Bruges reunion. But hopefully it's different, but in the same sort of smart, funny, sad territory. You really went through the traditional meat grinder

of award season with Three Billboards, and that film was a great success and won a lot of awards. The movie business has changed pretty radically since that happened. I don't know how much

that's something you care about or you thought of, but a film like Three Billboards even four years ago could be a big box office success. Do you think about that sort of thing when you're putting a movie like this out in the world? Not really. It's just the post-COVID thing that I wonder about or worry about. Are people going back to movie um in the same way that they did then there's also the whole streaming aspect you know that that's grown exponentially since then um the idea that you know it'll be on tv in like a week or two i don't like that i like

the idea that there's some incentive to getting out there so that's why we built in like two months of, of, um, of this not being available on streaming. So you have to, if you want to see what people are talking about, you'll have to get out to the theaters. And I think that's a good thing.

I think it kind of needs to be protected or cinemas are going to die, you know, um, as an art form. And that's not good for anyone. You still go to the movies. Yeah. Yeah. I went to to the movies? Yeah, yeah. I went to see two just this weekend,

checking out the competition. I saw TAR and Triangle of Sadness, which were both really, really good. And I'm pissed off. Yeah, I usually end these conversations by asking filmmakers, what's the last great things they've seen? And those two, since they just opened,

a lot of people are seeing them and saying, God damn, we might have an interesting fall. But I think you'll be in good shape. In Toronto, I saw Women Talking, and I thought that was brilliant. Sometimes you see a film and you go, okay, if that wins everything, it's okay. Because we've been beaten by the right people.

What are the questions you're still trying to figure out creatively for yourself now? Are you still trying to get out creatively for yourself now? Are you still trying to get to the bottom of something? Because you've captured this writing tone that is so singular, and yet Sean Fennessey, you can imagine, I come from an Irish family. I really relate.

But when you sit down, do you say I'm still sorting through my feelings about, is it mortality? Is it love? What is it that you're thinking about when you sit down with something? I think all those things are always there, but it's probably not even as heavy as that. Each time it's like,

can I tell an interesting, novel, surprising story? I think the tone is something that I've kind of been evolving slowly. And I think in some ways I see Seven Psychopaths as a bit of a blip. I think there was sort of a bit less of an internal sort of sadness or pathos, which I do like in the other films. So that's the territory I'm going to keep mining, I guess. But no, it's just about, but I don't mind, you know, repeating that,

you know, if I can find new characters and new stories that are still in the same kind of ballpark. But I don't think I'm ever going to be doing a rom-com. You should try. Superhero. I should try to do a rom-com. It would be a dark, fucked up one, but I should give it a go. But I'm never going to make a superhero movie. So that's one thing that's off the table. What's your relationship to the stage now? I'm in a place of flux a little bit I'm not sure

kind of like Brendan's character in the movie it's like what do you spend the rest of your time doing and I am leaning more towards films I think than plays and I never had that before but I think again post-Covid

with time seemingly at a premium i do feel like it's going to be more movies than than plays um because weirdly plays take just as long to get on um if you're you know trying to do them in london and new york um but then when they when they're done they're gone forever and i don't like just in a legacy way forever. And I don't like, just in a legacy way, I guess, I don't like that. I used to be okay with it, but not so much anymore. That occurred to me when I was thinking about speaking with you

because I remember seeing a Behanding in Spokane and really liking it quite a bit. And now finding it hard in 2022 to find a friend to have a conversation with about that show. And whereas in Bruges is before that. And here we are chatting about it. Yeah. Exactly.

When you're thinking about future work, um, it's, it's, it's that aspect, you know, you can't, you can't,

you know, I can't show your friends, you know, the great version of beauty queen of Lenin from 20 years ago. Um, but we can see in Bruges and that's, there's a sadness to that, that think these things that are there and really good are lost forever and they say that that's part of the joy of uh seeing theater that it that it's gone on the night but and but it remains in in the minds

of who saw it but um there's something a little undemocratic about that too um you know because if you live in kansas you're not going to get to see a london or a new york play um but you can see imbrugli anytime you like so i these are all things that are kind of going on in my head all the time but it does lead me more towards the film direction well one one last question for you and it's about that you know I never had a chance to see the Lieutenant of Inishmore. I always wanted to see it. Maybe it'll be staged at a certain point, and I can. But is there any part of you that wants to take any of those projects and make them films or find a way to film them so that they do have a kind of legacy that way? No, at the same time as

what I've just said before, I do like the idea of plays, remaining plays. I do like the idea of plays remaining plays. I do like the idea that it was written for the stage. And if you want to see it, I mean, they're always going to be there to be performed on stage, but no, that it's, that usually happens just to make money from a successful play. And I don't think you should do any arts coming from that sort of point of

view. So my, my plays are all going to stay plays, I'm afraid. You writing anything new? Yes, there's a script I wrote just a year or two ago that isn't quite good enough, but I'm going to go back to that in the next few months and make less shit. I look forward to it. Martin, thank you so much for doing the show. I'm such an admirer of your work. I appreciate it. Thanks so much, Sean.

Thanks to Martin McDonough. Thanks to Chris and Amanda, of course, and to our producer, Bobby Wagner, for his work on this episode. Next week, we are revisiting 35 under 35 movie stars. We got a couple of movies that may or may not star members of that list. My Policeman is available on Amazon Prime starring Harry Styles.

And Causeway, a new film on Apple TV Plus starring Jennifer Lawrence. We'll talk about those movies and reimagine our list. We'll see you then.