The Big Picture - The Epic Movie Draft

Episode Date: July 14, 2026

Sean and Amanda are joined by Chris Ryan for their first ever (and potentially last) Epic Movie Draft, in anticipation of Christopher Nolan’s ‘The Odyssey’. Before kicking things off, they react to legendary actor Sam Neil’s passing, Moana’s opening weekend box office bomb, and the trailers released for ‘Digger’ and ‘Dune: Part Three’. Then, they debate what it is exactly that makes a movie “epic” and draft some incredible films from a myriad of different categories.  (0:00) Intro (1:47) We went to Canada (3:27) Sam Neill’s passing (7:12) ‘Moana’ bombs at the box office (and Disney's live-action future) (17:04) ‘Digger’ trailer reaction (22:11) ‘Dune: Part Three’ trailer reaction (24:58) ‘Odyssey’-inspired epics series on the Criterion Channel (27:00) What makes a movie epic? (33:20) The Epic Movie Draft (1:39:15) Honorable mentions and draft recap Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guest: Chris Ryan Producer: Jack Sanders Production Support: Lucas Cavanagh It’s on Prime. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, mid-sized business. We see your big ambitions, but how do you achieve the wins you want when your technology is holding you back? SAP Grow is built to grow with your business, no matter its size, with AI embedded at its core, working across every system, all ready to go from day one so you can hit the ground running. Bring it with SAP Grow. AI Cloud ERP for any size business. I'm Sean Fennessey. I'm Amanda Dobbin. And this is the Big Picture at Conversation show about Epic, Mets. Movies CR is here, and we are drafting again in honor of the Odyssey.

We are conducting the very first and maybe only epic movie draft. What does that mean? I'm so glad you asked, Chris. We're going to break it all down right after this. This episode of The Big Picture is presented by Amazon Prime. One of the best things about streaming is that you never just pick a title. You pick a feeling. And Prime makes that easy. With great entertainment and fast shipping that brings the moment to life,

Prime helps you experience the feeling you're craving. Shows you can't wait for and deliveries you don't wait for, one click away, from streaming to fast shipping. shipping, it's on Prime. Okay, we are going to draft epic movies today, but a lot of news has transpired. We've just returned from... A lot of news. Yeah, a lot of news. Yeah, we've just returned. There's a lot of stuff in the news. Yeah. Okay. Why don't you tell us your highlights? I mean, I just think it's an interesting time for the Senate. That's what's the top of mind. But Patrick Dempsey will not be throwing his hat in the rank. Yes. Did he announce that? He said that he announced that he was not

going to be running from. Can you believe Strom Thurmond had 50 some odd years of continuous service? in that seat and then Lindsay Graham came right up behind him. So there's been like two senators. So like for 70 years, it was just those two guys. Pretty cool. Good ridden. I don't live in that state. Yeah.

What's what? It's kind of like the big pick. Oh, so who do you think is? When you die, she'll take over. Okay. Yeah. And then maybe on. Who does that make you?

I don't know. James Teller Rico. Okay. Enough politics. Beto. So we, speaking of, of international intrigue, though. Yeah. Oh, sad.

Now you're, we did. No, we came back from Canada. We went to Canada last week. I just wanted to say thanks to the fine people of Canada and Toronto, where we had a lovely 72 hours. We showed a Christopher Nolan film, Tenet. We did a live draft with some special friends that will air on this feed. I look at him instead of you. Thank you so much for tuning in.

You're turning your back on me. Mid-potten. We just started. You're already shunning me. I can't believe this. He feels bad about his behavior in the car on the way to the airport. And so he's trying to... You were done with us by the end.

And maybe we can get into that during the draft. And actually, Amanda and I were locking in. We were having the most fun. And you were like, enough. Because you were like, this is where I get off the bus. And it was the green room after tenant. And you said no more. And then...

I don't think that's true. It is 1,000% true. But it's okay. We're back. And also, you know, after the last draft, has the last draft aired yet? The last draft, the draft we just conducted? Yes. No, that will air next month.

No, no, no, no. The last one that we three did together with you to remember this. What was it? Can someone help me out? I mean, the auction? Yeah. Oh, the auction. Yes.

Are you okay? The auction aired, yeah. Yeah. Listen, we saw Tenet and I'm on Morden's space in time, right? I go backwards. I go forwards. I'm here in the moment. But he turned on me a little during the auction as well.

Right. So we're healing. Right now. We're healing. But I've noticed that the chair is inching that way again. George Sean? Yeah. Come back to me, my son.

Okay, let's talk about real news, real movie news. Sam Neal passed away, terrible news. He was 78 years old. And it struck me the minute I heard this news, just what an essential part of he was in my early movie-going and movie-loving life. In the 1990s, if you look around, you see Sam Neal everywhere.

And obviously, he's had a full career starting in the late 70s that ran all the way up until the present day. but just in the 90s, Jurassic Park, of course, The Hunt for Red October, in the mouth of madness, the piano, Event Horizon, a number of movies that we talk about

with a great frequency on this show. Amanda, when I say Sam, Neil, what do you think about? I would like to have seen Montana, which is, you know, and to your point, that's from the Hunt for Red October, and then obviously he's one with the dinosaurs forevermore,

and that's where I probably first saw him. But it's been fun, as we have been doing our various theme episodes and also as Blanktrak has been doing, God, Peter Weir. Peter Weir, thank you. I was like Australia. Aussie, yes.

Yes, Australia was like Australia. To go back and discover him, he was obviously a big part of Australian and, you know, New Zealand cinema and bringing that to the U.S. So getting to see things like Dead Calm, which I had not seen until a couple years ago, maybe when we were doing erotic thrillers, right?

Was that it? I can't remember or I would have said that it was the George Miller episode, no, it wasn't. Something about boats? Nicole Kidman?

Did we do a Nicole Kidman Hall of him? That's what it was. Okay. There you go. Anyway. We're really building a true temple here. She has an encyclopedic dollars

of the big pictures. It's amazing. It's true. Yeah. But so someone who was introduced to us, blockbuster-wise,

but obviously had like a rich and varied career outside of the dinosaurs. No doubt. It's got to start in 1979 in My Brilliant Career, Gillian Armstrong's film. I think it's a New Zealand. I think it might be Roger Donaldson, the one that he made with like Warren Oates. Sleeping Dogs. Yeah.

That movie came before my brilliant career is like 76, 77. There's an Arrow edition of that movie. It's a really, really cool movie. And yeah, I mean, he did have this kind of rich period in his career in Australian, New Zealand, making films before coming over to Hollywood. But then by the time he came to Hollywood, he just became a pretty entrenched leading man who could also go real crazy

you know he was famously and it was the Omen 4 where he was for president he plays Damien right he plays Damien and and you know obviously movies like Event Horizon and in the mouth of madness yes Damien Omen yeah yeah yeah just had great range and was a really talented actor so yeah I think in some ways a less flashy version of careers of slightly younger actors maybe

or probably actually contemporaries of like Malkovich and Defoe who are capable of doing everything from Jim Jarmish and you know a period piece to an action thriller to a sci-fi movie to Robert Eggers movies or what have you and I just hope we continue to see actors who have careers as varied and rich as him

he was metronomic you could just depend on him finding like locating the like the best emotion for each scene but also would be able to take the handbrake off at any given moment and do something like he does an event horizon that's a little bit more dramatic. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, he, like, even obviously Possession is a legendary film that he was a huge part of. And even as recently as Tycho Waites' Hunt for the Wilder people where he's doing like a much more broad comic, outsized performance. So he was just an amazing performer. So we honor him on the show. From the sublime to the absurd, Moana. Mawana was the big,

release while we were in Canada. I saw the film. It's a live action remake of the 2016 Disney animated instant classic. Film I love a great deal. Why don't you perform some of it for us live? Moana. Make way! Make way!

I think that's... We're in copyright territory. I did see this live action remake with my daughter in 3D yesterday. Wow. On purpose? She wore the glasses? She did. I thought it would be an interesting experiment and she wore them and she enjoyed the 3D experience. She said, Moana is coming out of the screen, dad. And that was exciting. It's all that the 3D makers could ask for. Yes, that was about

the only exciting thing about Moana, which was just not very good, as you might imagine, and it is a huge bomb. It made $43 million here in the States, $95 million worldwide opening, and it was reported that $125 million will be lost to the Walt Disney Corporation. You say what, Amanda? I was going to turn it around on you. I was going to say, and And it inspired a new wave of hand-wringing coverage of the box office. Is it up? Is it down? You say what?

I think it's interesting. I think it kind of checks out with how everything's been going, which is to say that it's kind of out with the old and in with the new. Well, there's two things about Moana specifically. One is that Moana 2 just came out a year and a half ago, and it was a big hit, even though it was critically not acclaimed. And so this is just way too soon for another Moana movie. And this movie was paused to fast track the Moana 2 animated movie.

They gave us this more quickly. The second thing is that it's only been 10 years since the animated Moana came out. Most of these live action remakes are films that were made at least 30 years ago and sometimes even 80 years ago. So, Chris, you saw the film four or five times this weekend. What do you think? That's probably why you guys were reacting to my mood in Toronto is that I was quite busy attending Moana screenings anytime I had a moment to myself. And I come out of those, you know, multiple trips. to the theater and I ask you this, is the Rock dead?

I think this is an underreported component of this story. I have helpfully compiled the filmography for Dwayne the Rock Johnson, a professional wrestler, non-perile, really one of the goats. Since 2016, since the original Moana was released, here are the films that Dwayne the Rock Johnson has made. The Fate of the Furious, Baywatch, Jumangi, Welcome to the Jungle, Rampage, Skyscraper, those are two different. movies. Fast and Furious presents Hobbs and Shaw. Jumanji the next level. Jungle Cruise,

Red Notice, animated DC League of Super Pets, Black Adam, Fast X, Red One, Moana 2, the smashing machine, Moana, and then later this year, Jumangi Open World. Woof. I was going to be charitable and say, this happened to Schwarzenegger, this happens to lots of our great action stars. You have like a shelf life. People get tired of your moves or people move on to the next thing. But he doesn't have anything in his filmography that even approaches like lower mid-tier Schwarzenegger.

I agree, let alone a Terminator 2. There is no Terminator 2 in his in his filmography. So I don't know what to say here. I can never not think that I'm watching The Rock when I see him on screen. I also have to, unlike you, I would say that some of his charms are lost on me,

but not necessarily am I. I'm not like anti-Dwayne Johnson, anti-the-Rock, but. No am I. And I think I've only, seen half of these movies. I've seen every single one. Well, some of them I was on...

Isn't that crazy? Some of them I was on leave for. And skyscraper, I just... No, I think I saw skyscraper, actually. They don't stay in your mind. But these are... What's your favorite? Critically, I was going to say,

critically, these are just, this is maybe the worst list of movies ever made. It's a rough list. Box office-wise, it comes in goes. The Jumanji films are huge. So there's that. Obviously, the Fast and Furious franchise. was very sturdy for a long time.

But his movies, I would have to go back and double check my work. His movies that are not Jumanji or Fast movies have like a $150 million ceiling. I think that's more or less right. Like San Andreas and skyscraper.

He has obviously pivoted by going to do Red Notice and Red One. Those are more or less streaming movies. The Smashing Machine was more of a prestige play. I like the Smashing Machine. And I thought his performance in it was very good. But a lot of these,

These choices are really bad. And this is like kind of a reckoning for somebody who has only pursued a certain kind of movie for such a long time. And he wasn't, he's not like he was bad in the live action Moana. He originated Maui. He looks a lot like Maui. He's charming enough. But it's just a repeat of a movie we've already seen. And there's nothing in this live action remake that improves upon the original in any way.

Well, he's also, everything you said is true and speaks to his career and also the way many big budget movies have. made in the last 10, 15 years. And so it does speak to this moment that we keep coming back to of like, oh, are things changing and are people tired of franchises and you stick the rock in some junkie XYZ with bad CGI

and for a while that was enough and or studios and businesses and the rock thought that it was enough. And maybe now we are turning to a point where it is not. He's got to find a middle ground between probably 824 stuff

and imaginary Scorsese movies and Jumanji, but I do want to point out that we have now entered a new era that being so over in fact means we are so back that movies failing means that people

have like higher taste standards or something like that. Yeah, I think there's some truth to that. I think it is not unanimous at the moment, but the success of movies from younger filmmakers and young people getting excited about those filmmakers is the thing that I think has turned. Sure. You know, because

a lot of the people who were excited about Moana when it came out, let's say they were eight years old when it came out. Those people are 18 years old. Those people are not interested in going to see a live action Moana. Also, when Moana came out, most people who were parents at that time are like, well, my kids are grown up. So I'm not interested in that either. And that Pixar way where Pixar draws in a lot of parents.

So the movie is really like neither fish nor foul. I think it'll be interesting to see because a handful of movies to have now kind of skipped. You know, we talked about minions, skipped a beat. It held. It's sort of. It did okay. It did okay. And let me say, I said this off camera.

I said it off camera, but I'll say it to you and Andy right here. Next time, call me, you know? You have my phone number. I'm available. I don't like to bother you, you know? You're a busy woman. You guys always say this, and then you just never answer my text. And then you know, no sell me in the car on the way to the airport.

I've been a sincere correspondent of late. I've made an effort. I think it's fair to say that a lot of younger people have, you know, if they, if You grew up with Moana. Chances are you went and saw obsession in the last six weeks. Exactly. Your silence has been deafening about Indynavrii attending a Mets game. Well, we were already cursed, so I'm not sure how much worse things could get.

Do you think that's where her character was actually doomed to in the movie? Yeah, that's her ultimate fate. Is City Field forever? Yeah, that's where I'm going to be buried. So maybe she can join me there. The less said about the Mets the better, but I am going on Mets Corner tomorrow and we will. we will say a prayer to the demons who have overtaken that franchise. The Disney Live Action Future.

So, should they keep doing this? No. I mean, Lilo and Stitch made a billion dollars, right? So that worked. And that was in that sweet spot where the kids who liked it when they were kids are grownups and they have their own kids. That was a smart strategy. I counted there have been 18 Live Action Disney remakes this century as part of this new initiative. Right.

And they haven't done a couple of all-time classics. Bambi is probably the most prominent. Pocahontas comes to mind as a movie they haven't remade and probably shouldn't. You know, some more recent films, Hercules and Tarzan. Hercules, Hercules, Hercules. Yeah, that's the Nuddy Professor you're thinking out. When this topic comes up. Have you seen The Ember's New Groove?

Oh, I saw that in theaters, I think. It's an animated comedy. Listen, I was a child once. What did you want for me? Oh, this was from when we were kidding. It was in 2002. So you weren't a child. Okay, I was graduating from high school.

Okay. But you went to see that in theaters. It's a movie I like. I saw it. Okay. I'm curious to see how much they keep pushing this. Tangled is being remade and is going to come out in a few years. Mandy Moore?

Is she the star? Wasn't she in the original? She was the star the original, but I don't think she'll be playing Repunzel in the new film. You don't know. Maybe they're updating it. You think it's going to be about a 40-year-old former pop star? Yeah. That would be a weird Rapunzel.

You know, Frozen's going to happen at some point. point. There's going to be a live action frozen. There's a billion, two billion, three billion dollars waiting for a live action frozen. But after that, I don't know, maybe, hopefully this is over. It's been kind of reported that these are all Eiger mistakes. I thought that was interesting that they're like, these were all Bob's Green Lights and Josh Tomorrow's not going to not going to get fooled with the banana and the tailpipe again. Yeah, I think it was just, it's not, they weren't mistakes. These movies made $800 million for years and years. They did a good job. It's just like they eroded what's special about Disney.

Like Disney was a creative space that took pre-established stories that you knew and put their Disney touch on it and made you see them in a new light. That was something exciting that they accomplished for 80, 90 years. And what they've been doing with these movies is taking movies they already made and making them again and making them less good with human actors. And so it should end. That's my take. Okay. Okay. Thanks guys.

Speaking of human actors, Mm-hmm. Om Cruz will appear in Digger. Yeah. And also on top of some random structure on the Warner Brothers lot during the trailer release event for Digger because this man climbs on things. Does he not know how to just be like,

I'm going to let this movie sell itself or like... I don't think it's going to sell itself. I think he has to sell it. But don't you think there's like a cognitive dissonance from the showmanship of the way he's kind of presenting this movie to what this movie is supposed to maybe be about? Perhaps. I think that they think the superpower of the movie is Tom Cruise.

Okay. And so it has been Tom Cruise forward. Yeah. The trailer was released today. We're recording on Monday. Yes. Chris, what did you think of the trailer for Digger? Al-Aandro Gonzalez-Iner-Ritu's new film.

You know, it didn't deter me from seeing it. I was a little surprised by how much seems to be in it. You know, like that seems to be what Digger is about, is about environmental crisis caused by. this oil man who's also in the cabinet of John Goodman's presidency and has to go fix what the problem he started. I don't think I found it funny or like I wasn't like, wow, Lev Grossman, but like from Texas. This is incredible, less Grossman. But I'm still going to go see it. I just, this was this was the one that felt like there was like a little bead of sweat coming down

Mike DeLuca's forehead and he was like, we need to make sure everybody knows what this movie's about. And there's been a lot of talk online today about how complicated and hard satire is for people to do well. Sure is. I mean, as soon as they put a comedy on the poster back in last year, I was like, oh, oh, you guys are nervous. You need to tell people. And I mean, this is the trailer that we saw in in cinema con in Vegas. We saw like an extended two-minute scene that led it right into this trailer that we saw. Okay.

But I would say my reaction was the same to yours. To mine. Yeah. That you thought it was not funny and you were concerned. Well, that it didn't assuage any of my concerns just from the basic shouting comedy really loudly with bright lights to try to get you to laugh, which is, I think, a problem. You know, the crews of it all in the trailer and the extended scene that we saw is very funny. I'm excited for that. I like the rest of the cast

I think it's cool that people are trying things again my Eneree 2 history you know is hit and miss checkered at best is that cat CGI couldn't tell I couldn't tell honestly took me out okay I just think we just have a real cat

you cat guy yeah for sure yeah love cat content let me ask you something totally unrelated you've seen Disclosure Day yet no okay so let's we'll circle back on that one Are there cats in it? Along with Tom Cruise and John Goodman. I don't have to see it because it made over $100 million.

Oh, okay. So you're good. You're good. You're not in debt. So what else can we get you to spend your money on this summer? We'll figure that out. Fix U.S. soccer. They're going to need more than that $5 million you were alluding for Disclosure Day.

Riz Ahmed is in the film. Sandra Hewler is in the film. Yeah, I would say I'm intrigued, but I have concerns as well. I think not a big interview to a guy either. You think it looked good? Why is it so washed out? Don't like it. I think it's a very clear stylistic choice that they made.

I don't think it's unintentional by any means. I joked when we were at Cinemacon that it looked like a Roy Anderson movie. And at times it kind of does. That big kind of almost like Colosseum sequence with all the men, the older men in one space, kind of recreating a strange-lovian type of scene does look like a Roy Anderson movie on speed. You know, Inoritu is a great stylist who I think just like circles the drain with very similar ideas about bleakness every time he makes a movie and he sometimes tries to undercut that bleakness by making comedies like Birdman and those comedies are often not that funny. That could be the point.

You know, that could be sort of something that he's trying to say that like in the, you know, death rattle of life, the absurdity is the struggle, is the, is the humor. But I wouldn't say that that's my favorite kind of movie to watch. but I am avowed to cruise. You know, I'm fascinated to see him reach back for something different. It's been a long time since he's done something different. So we'll be watching and covering on the show. Will you be watching and covering?

On my show or on this show? Which show do you mean when you say your show? You have so many shows. Talk to Thrones solo pod just breaking down. No, I'll... For Digger? I'd love to come under the Digger podcast. You would?

Yeah, okay. We'll keep that in mind. You have to see the film. I will. I will. I do my homework assignments. Yeah. But during the World Cup, I have fallen by the way.

It's not fair. You've had a lot on your plate. And I support you. Thank you. So when we were... You know to scooge back this way a little bit more? That's nice. That's very adorable.

You keep moving in and out of your shot, I think. Be careful there. While we were in Toronto, the Dune Part 3 trailer. Yeah. And on stage, after presenting tenant, Chris asked us if we'd watch it and neither of us had. Yeah. Have you since watched it? No.

Because I thought it was what we saw. I thought we saw it in CinemaCon. No, this was new. This is an uncut, Peruvian flake. Okay. Well, listen, let me tell you

that what we saw in Vegas was just straight up fire. It was unbelievable. I don't need to see anymore. Show me the movie. They did it. Right after June 2, we didn't have to wait five years.

Timmy is Himmethy. Zendaya's doing Tyro Banks. Like, Pattinson is going for like, honestly, he's going to fucking win the Triple Crown this year. Yeah. And two of his movies could be bad and he could still win the Triple Crown.

He is out of it. of his mind in this trailer. Anya covered in blood. Oh yeah, we saw that. Are you sure we didn't see this? It's possible. I don't think so. I think that we saw it.

Okay, but you haven't seen it since, so you don't, can't confirm. Well, I had to drive. But you know what I'm talking about? Maybe we did. Zendaya's like, We trusted you! Yes, yeah.

There's a lot of Jason Mamoa in this trailer. Who has returned for some sort of vengeance. Is he what version of Duncan Idaho? I mean, it's complicated. It's okay. It's fine. Don't worry about it. You're gonna see this film?

Guess I read Dune for nothing. Yeah. Dune or the Wikipedia page. Okay, all right. It's kind of how I like to roll. You own a copy of Dune Messiah? No. An audiobook?

I've picked it up. My mom had one, I think. I think I've like, this is a real bend to Prague situation here. This is like, I like literary criticism because I get both. Can I ask, do audiobooks? Oh, no. Me either.

No. Do you do you all your books at all? I was listening to it on the way here, yeah. Oh, Dune 3. No, no, not of Dune Messiah. No, no. What were you listening to? Abel Ferrar's memoir. Oh, okay. Seen and read by Able.

Yeah, I was going to say, yeah. No days off for you. Yeah, that's beautiful. You're never like driving into work listening to a lonesome dog. Did you retain anything of what you listened to? Of course. Did you listen to it at 2X? Uh, 1.5. Okay. That's better than 2X.

He gave me a ride home from the airport, and the podcast started playing on 2X when we got in the car. What pod was it? It was, it was, unfortunately, the big picture, which was even worse. It was auto play because he had been sharing. It's fine. That part is innocent, but it was the most psychotic thing I've ever heard. Yeah.

I would sooner kill myself than listen to my own podcast. However, I had a physical reaction to it, and I do think that I now understand you in like a slightly different way. It's important, you know. I've been rapping 2X for a long time. I know that, but I had never experienced it. I had never experienced it. And that is unnatural.

That's right, and that's what makes me special. Speaking of special, I co-programmed a series on the Criterion Channel. Can I tell you something? Yeah. Really cool selection of films. Yeah, thanks. It was great. I just was looking at that this morning.

Yeah, there's seven films that are currently available. And, you know, the idea was how can space like Criterion honor everyone being excited for what is clearly the movie event of the summer? It's clear that especially some of these bodies washing ashore of other summer blockbusters that are not totally panning. out. It does seem like there are a lot of people who are kind of saving their coin for the Odyssey. And so the films that you can find on the Criterion Channel right now, which will be eligible in one of our categories here, are the searchers, the Darjeeling Limited, Sullivan's travels, walk about the straight story after hours and O'Brother War Art thou. And all of those stories, to some extent or another, are inspired by Homer's The Odyssey and journey's home,

journeys back somewhere. And I was very happy to do it. I love working with Criterion on stuff like that. Speaking of Criterion, I was just there at the mobile closet at the Hollywood Bowl over the weekend where there was a huge West Anderson event where like they transformed the Hollywood Bowl into West Anderson world for a day where you could listen to music in a vinyl room for three days. Excuse me. Right. The whole weekend. And I didn't get a chance to go to the concert, but I know you did. I got to go last night, which was a delight and very charming hosted by Bill Murray and, you know, was a collection of the songs that have been featured on the soundtracks performed by in some cases the actual artist.

Oh, cool. And also the scores played by the orchestra, and there was a children's choir at one point. Oh, wow. Jackson Brown did these days, which was, like, pretty moving. And, like, telling a story about how he, that song was not a thing until Tenenbaum's. And he said he went to see the theater, see the movie in the theater. And he was like, I'm sure I'd given approval, but didn't remember it. And then the song starts playing.

He's like, I used to play guitar like that. and then perform the song. So it was really magical. It was very exciting to go. That's great. So epic movies. What do you think makes a movie epic, C.R., as you were thinking about this project?

You know, I could throw out some definitions, but this is a real pornography one. This is like you kind of know it when you see it. And I think that there can be epic movies. Could have gone a lot of different ways. I know. Is there epic pornography? That's a really good idea.

Should we start making like four-hour multi-locational? $100 million pornos? Yeah. Okay. What do you think? Good business model? Sure. That seems great, yeah.

You pay for your porn? Well, morally and ethically, yes. That's right. Yeah, you pay God. Yeah. Sort of an odysseous of porn. Oh, boy. I think that this is the kind of thing where you know an epic when you see it.

And there are sometimes films that might kind of have the trappings of an epic movie, but fall short, and there are domestic chamber pieces, I'm sure that you could call Epic. But to me, I'm very curious to see with our picks how left field and how argumentative we get with each other

about whether something classifies as an epic. I thought that this was a very fun exercise to put them in their various categories. I left it somewhat vague. I think you have to think about the scope of the movie, though, to answer your question. I agree with you. Yeah.

How do you think about these movies? I think there can be a pretty literal definition, which is number one, like, extras, the number of people actually in the film where you just get like a person count, background actors. I'm sorry, I know that's the preferred terminology, which is a way of measuring scope to your point. But just the sheer number of crowd scenes because they really went for it back in the day. And that is one of the things that is diminishing as we move to CGI crowds, which they just, the technology is not there. The crowd scenes are like a huge talent these days. It was better like 25 years ago. Yeah.

It's really, really, really, really bad. So if you have actual people in a crowd scene. And because that indicates also budget locations, you know, scope, all of these things. And then I think runtime. I think anything under two and a half hours is probably not on the scale. I have been thinking about that, because there is a category that speaks to that concern, but can a movie be two hours and eight minutes and be an epic? What do you think?

I don't think it's durational. I don't know that I have anything that is that short, for instance, but I do think that it's about the multiplicity. For me, it's about the multiplicity of locations, the scope of the sort of landscape that you're covering. And then I think a lot of the genres that we think of as epic would be stuff like films about the Bible or films drawing from the Bible, Roman and Greek, classical sword and sandals movies, King Arthur movies,

knights, like those kinds of things, and then westerns. I would say war films. And war films, yeah. Yeah. So the Odyssey is 172 minutes, and we just had a chance to see it. and it is in the conversation for the most epic movie ever made.

I don't know if it completely fulfills every single thing that you guys outlined there. For example, I think even just sustaining the same number of background actors as like the 1967 War and Peace. Like, I don't know if anyone will ever do that again. Like there are certain kinds of movies where you just, they're not made in quite the same way. But in terms of just traveling the world, the scope of the like the way that the battle sequences, are made and the intensity of the production design. I hadn't seen the movie when I came up with this idea, but it fits. You know, like it now, I think instantaneously kind of goes into that canon of these kinds

of films. These kinds of films, though, I would say, as I've watched more and more of them as I've gotten older, you know, they're not always good. Like, just being big doesn't confirm any kind of greatness. And it confirms grandeur, but... But I always kind of like them. You know what I mean? Like, even like how the West was one.

which has its ups and downs and is very, very long. I kind of marvel at it's just its simple act of being. And I don't mind it being on in the background for long stretches. And I'll be like, oh, I can get up because they're doing this now, but they'll get back to the part that I like. Do you like them as much? I completely agree with Chris. And I was doing some refreshes because many of these,

I have only seen once or twice, because you see it. You're like, okay, they really did get all that many people in one place. with some cameras. Like, I get it. But a funny way to kind of speedwash through a couple was just any time it's two people in a room, you're like, okay, whatever. Like, I don't care. I can just force it to the next steppiece and the next time. That's just like the camp, you know, you get the vast expanse. But yeah, I mean, like, I am forever like begging people to film in real places and to pay attention to production design and to all of the, the finery, the frippery of, of a movie. And sometimes they went too far. And I agree with Chris that they're not always good

or it doesn't live up to the amount of money put into it. But it's really cool that they tried. Yeah. I like it. I mean, I think that way, I feel that way about seeing, I'm sure, when I see Odyssey on on IMAX and I kind of feel that way about watching Ten Commandments on a small TV where I'm like, wow, this is really crazy that. Yeah. This is a big, you know, just decided to do that. Yes, yeah. And I think it's fitting that we're probably doing this draft now because one of the things that's really been a theme of Matt Damon's rather extensive and globetrotting press tour.

He is running. Is him saying... Big time. And I'll vote for him. I think this is the last one. I think this is the last one of these movies that I'll try to do. Or that may ever get made, you know? Yeah.

We'll touch that on the Odyssey episode. I do think that's a really interesting idea and I think it's related a little bit to like, what is Christopher Nolan going to do next? Because the escalation run that he's on now is quite fast. fascinating. His films, some of his films may be eligible here. We can discuss. Sure.

The Odyssey will not be eligible, though, because it has not yet been released. Okay, well, I'll share the categories before we set the draft order, okay? So for those of you listening along at home, as I said, Odyssey-inspired epics, which includes the eight films that were programmed for the Criterion Channel, as well as other Odyssey-inspired movies, will be eligible there. Okay. The second category is Epic Best Picture Winners. Now, this one could be interestingly fungible, is what I'll say.

There are, I would say about five, no doubt, full-blown epics that have one best picture. There's like 35 that you can have an argument about. That's exactly right. The next category is biblical epic. The next category is romantic or war epic. Then we have biopic epic, which I think maybe undercuts some of your descriptors. I do think that there are some biopics that maybe don't traverse as many

lands or feature as many extras, but could fit the bill. We can talk about that here. Yeah. The next category is movies that exceed three hours, of which there are many, and then the last category is Wildcard. Okay, you guys feel good? Yes. Yeah. Shall we set the draft order?

Yes. Yes. Okay, Jack, fire away. All right, proper, back to our old roots, Dungeons and Dragons die. Here we go. So the Toronto fiasco will, people will catch up on that. Well, was it really a fiasco? I didn't think it was a fiasco. Yeah. Drafting first is Christopher Ryan. Okay. Wow. Interesting. Once again. Drafting second is Sean Fennessey, Amanda Dobbins, third. Okay. Interesting. I have no idea

what the right, what the power rankings of this are. But you know what? Today's epic movie draft is presented by State Farm. Life is all about choices like deciding whether or not to check out the latest release in theaters. At State Farm, their goal is to help you make decisions that you feel good about. Speaking of good decisions, it's time for the first pick of the draft. CR. You've got seven categories to plug into. And my movie could go into almost every one of them. Okay. But I'm going to put it in movies over three hours. Oh, interesting.

And I'm going to take what I think is the number one seat, which is Lawrence of Arabia. Lawrence of Arabia. Okay. We knew that. Yeah. David Lean's masterpiece, one of my favorite movies ever made. If you get a chance ever, ever to see this in 70 millimeter, do yourself a favor. Can I just send a personal plea to American Cinemattec? I know it's a long movie, but like the 2 p.m. 70 millimeter screenings of Lawrence Arabia, I just, I can't do it. It doesn't fit with my lifestyle.

And all I want to do is go and see this film. I just can't abandon my children for like the eight hours required to get to Santa Monica and see this movie. But I'm desperate to. Some of the most awe-inspiring shots and sequences in terms of, you know, real locations out in the desert, huge swaths of people storming Akaba, like amazing, amazing moments that you'll remember forever. But then these incredibly powerful, intimate moments of people exchanging ideas and talking about their lives and going crazy out in the desert and blowing out matches and perhaps falling in love with one another intense and all the things that happen in this

movie. And like a lot of epics is really two or three films. So I think in some ways the older I get the more appreciation it's kind of like a second half of Goodfell's thing

where I actually quite like the last hour of this movie now whereas when I was younger I was like once they're done really fighting the war I lose interest and you know

I don't need to watch Anthony Quinn remind him of morality but man this this film is one of the true heavyweight champions of the world

when it comes to to global filmmaking Can I tell you something sweet? Knox watched a lot of this with me this afternoon. Yeah, because he got home from a birthday party, from Alice's birthday party, and then was like, what to watch in? And just sat down and was transfixed for almost an hour. And I think, you know, it helps that there are like planes and camels and real things happening, which he responded to. But even through the parts where it's, you know, people talking in rooms, which those you shouldn't fast forward through.

Those are amazing. Peter O'Toole forever. But yeah, it held his attention. I feel like this is the movie that every generation has been trying to live up to since. Like if you listen to the heavyweights of the New Hollywood, if you listen to the way that Spielberg and Lucas and Coppola talk about the movie, they're trying to live up to it. If you Nolan screen this movie, or actually I think Tom Holland screened this movie at the request.

It's Sony's print, right? Yes, because he had to go to Tom Rothman, who runs the studio that makes the Spider-Man movies, to screen this before they made The Odyssey. They're not, I don't think they're similar movies. The Odyssey and Lawrence of Arabia, their scale and scope might be somewhat similar. I think they have different things on their mind to some extent, but it's interesting to have like a benchmark,

you know, where you can look back in a movie that was made 65 years ago and say, we're still trying to get to this. Yeah. I wonder if I would imagine that for most people listening to this, if you close your eyes and I said, name an epic movie, this would be the first one that came to mind. I think. So, although I have a couple of other ideas that may or may not get drafted here,

because I do think that each generation gets their own. You know, they get their own totemic classic, or maybe even a couple if you're born in the 1910s, you might see a few of these movies as the most meaningful. We may not agree on who will win this draft, but with the State Farm Personal Price Plan, you can choose the right amount of coverage to help create an affordable price. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save

with the Personal Price Plan. Like a Good Neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans. plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. Okay, second pick. I'm trying to figure out what is the category of need, right?

It's tough because so many things can bleed into different categories that I don't really feel like there's like a... And the one that feels the most limited is biblical epic. It depends on your definition of biblical. Will you be stretching that definition later this draft? It depends. Okay. Well, I don't mean to wound Amanda because I know she revisited this movie, but I think my best choice is to take the last temptation of Christ here, which is Martin Scorsese's adaptation of the controversial novel that portrays Christ in a more human-like fashion, which is very much an epic story, very much a biblical epic, and told in a somewhat similar fashion to The Odyssey.

It came up over the weekend in a piece in USA Today that Christopher Nolan said that he watched the movie. the way, for example, that Scorsese allows the actors to use their natural accents. Hey, Jesus. Harvey Kitell, giving you real outer borough, Judas. You know, the movie itself is beautiful and tremendously painful and a fascinating portrait of a, I think, a deeply spiritual person in crisis. You know, like Scorsese was roundly castigated by the Catholic and Christian community for this movie, and it was supposed to be made in 1980, and then it was canceled, and Paramount

got cold feet and he had to fight and it's sort of the story of his career to get this movie on screen but what he ends up making i think is not offensive at all but is like a very sympathetic and sincere and um deep portrait of what we imagine it means to be a faithful person a person with deep moral integrity and um i i've always thought it was a great movie it's not it's not the scorstasy movie that i've rewatched the most times though you know it's one of the sure to your point about like you watch it once or twice and you're like okay this is a very it's a it's a it's a It's literally a cross to bear. And not always the most fun thing.

But this is, I think, an outlier in this category insofar as the era in which it was made and the kind of filmmaker that made it. Right. And the tone and the – it was fascinating to rewatch it, having seen the Odyssey and knowing the influence. But, you know, the interpretation of the main character, the hero. Yeah, Christ. And sure, yeah, you've heard of it. Heard of him. No, it was great.

It was definitely what I was. was going to pick, but that's okay. You win some, you lose some. I would have probably taken it even if you hadn't told me you just revisited it this morning. Well, yeah, because biblical epics is a necessary but kind of annoying category once Last Temptation is off the board. It was just such a, it's such a huge part of Hollywood history, you know, and it had a huge golden age, but how many of those films are actually good is an interesting conversation?

Or how many do you actually want to follow up? Okay, Amanda, you got two picks now. two picks and I guess I'm just going to go with my heart here a little bit. Well, I know what I'm going to do for the first one because it means a lot to me and you've got a real soft spot for it. So in romantic epic or war epic, this is both. I will take the English patient. Much maligned by Seinfeld and Sean Fennacy when I made him watch it. It was just like a very pregnant moment there. I thought you said gone with the way. Chris has been celebrating the 4K announcement of Gone with the Wind.

It's a must add to his collection immediately. Is your home also Terra 2? What's the name of your house? To anyone listening, Atlanta, we will not do a live show until the Terra Theater changes its name. Okay? So you guys organize. Anyway, the English patient is Anthony Minghella's adaptation of the Michael Andaji novel. and it famously beat Fargo.

And some guys were mad, but not me because I think this is an absolutely beautiful. And maybe one of the sexiest movies that I have ever seen, and I was of an impressionable age at this point. But there are two plot lines, but the Ray finds Chris and Scott Thomas profile, Herodotus, you know, by the fire, that's just what I'm trying to be. And I'm never going to get there. Are you, though? No, but it's like... Because I feel like you would not be into a guy reading to you by a fire. Well, I'm not...

She's telling the story, and she has everyone captive, you know? And she's got the blanket draped over just like so in the firelight. What's a lot of to you is having everybody's undivided attention. Yes, exactly. Thank you for understanding that. But then... But then also the bathtub scene. Yes.

Sure. The Christmas party scene. Tough one. The naming of the wins. You know. And then there's a time every year when it's daylight savings where daylight savings goes away and it gets dark very early and then the lights are all gone and I'm writing alone to you in the darkness. I mean, this movie just fucking gets to me. I love it. It's beautiful. It obviously is paying homage and or stealing and not quite living up to David Lane, depending on your point of view. But I think it's a really good partner pick with Last Temptation. It's a very modern sensibility attached to a very classical film. Yes, reactions to Hollywood history in some ways. Yeah.

But I think it's wonderful. And I was not bored. Unlike Elaine. Who is another person? Elaine Benis does not like the English patient in Seinfeld. I aspire to her. I think it's fine. I really like Miguel as a filmmaker.

It's not my favorite of his movies. Partless. Yeah. You know, you don't know what it is to... The romantic epic is a tricky thing. It's a really tricky thing. And it isn't my preferred mode of film as listeners of this show. No.

The romance I kind of struggle with. Not that I don't love romance. You know, many are saying, I'm a romantic at heart. Yeah, that's what everyone says when they think of you. Yeah, this is a beautiful movie. Okay, so I have a second pick. And I'm trying, I don't know how many of, The other things I think you guys are going to, like, rip away from me at this point.

That's my real passion. And I wanted last temptation for tactical, tactical reasons. But maybe, maybe I'll go with what I really want. And perhaps this will give us an opportunity to debate the definition of Epic a little more. But in three hours or more, I'm going straight to the heart of both of you and taking JFK. So, yeah. I do have it on the list. I think it's, I have it on the list.

I do have it on the list. Sure it is. Let me ask you this. Yeah. It's certainly eligible in three hours or more. Yeah. Is it eligible in biopic? But not as a portrait of John Insanity, but is it a Jim Carrierson biop?

I think certainly that's plausible. I'm taking it in three hours or more. I think this is a great pick. Because I think that while it could be eligible in biopic, it obviously is more lasting and more honest as a fever dream about an entire generation of people, not understanding what happened and going slightly crazy, trying to figure out. Or understanding it all too well.

Understanding it all too well and teaching the rest of us, their secrets. I see you, Mr. X. So I love this film, maybe not quite as much as you guys do, but like a lot. I think we love this episode of the rewatchables more than that. This is my all-time number one episode of the rewatchables. When Sean thought that the CIA was going to kick down the door to rest him I wanted to talk about the filmmaking We got there

I thought that was the most extraordinary part of the film You did get there but I mean just Bill and and Chris Just 30 minutes in and Brian and Brian as well But you know I still have follow-up questions for Bill About some of the things that he said Anyway Oliver Stone You think it was the mafia who do you think did it What do you think that's right

The mafia was hired by the CIA? I think it's I think it's not you think that's right and the mafia was hired by the CIA I I think it was primarily a CIA operation that extended to Cuban dissidents and the mafia. Okay. Extended to. Can you define that? They brought them into the fold. I see.

How many? But there's a lot of debate about... How many men knew? Who was calling the shots? Yes. And how was the... Or if that was even ahead of the snake. Yeah.

It was an idea that got out of control, which is the Delillo. Yeah. I mean, I was going to say, I have read Libra a couple years ago and, like, points were made, you know? It's like, I understand. It's plausible to me. But that's kind of everyone mingling together and taking advantage of... I do think, I just feel like Mr. X was on to something. Maybe not in the details of what he shares, but in the manner in which he shares it,

the fact that there is some sort of larger conspiracy in the world at large inside of government doors, I do believe in that. And this is not some QAnon thing. Of course. I think for 200 years, this is how power operates. I've seen it up close. I'll never forget. Okay.

Okay. I gotta make a pick. Yeah. Hmm. Now, do you feel the need to be selecting epic old heavyweights? Like, obviously, you've chosen one. And now we've chosen three fairly contemporary films here. Is there something just more essentially epic about a movie that was made 75 years ago?

I think the reason why they're still held, if not in high critical regard, like, oh, great film dude. just sort of like, you have to respect real horses died during making this. You know? Like, you have to respect what we used to do. And we are losing the fine arts. We don't throw cars off of cliffs anymore. Stunt men don't get dragged behind, you know, carts.

Like, that's when you watch these movies, you are watching people literally put their lives on the line to entertain you. And there's, it's like jackass. You know, you have to respect it even if you don't like it. Okay. With that in mind, then I will take Akira Kurosawa's Seven Samurai in movies to exceed three hours. There you go, big time.

One of the largest scale productions ever, one of the longest movies commercially released at the time. More like best movies ever draft. Yeah, this came to mind when I was thinking of this idea. I was like, how many of these will be all-time mega-classics? But we really haven't talked about Seven Samurai that much on the show over the years. It doesn't fit. We did it when we did Kurosawa, right? Didn't you what I do a Kurosawa?

We did Mufune, turning a hundred. So we watched a bunch of Mufune movies and talked about it. Of course, Mufune is the star of this movie. Takashi Shemura, many of the major stars of the Kurosawa films. This is the biggest. It's not my favorite, but it is the most. It's the most movie, I think, that he's ever made. Runtime exceeds 200 minutes.

An epic story about seven men standing up against a massive army to protect a small town. Been reimagined and retold many times over the years through Hollywood eyes and elsewhere. just a feast, you know, an epic feast that is still being imitated to this day. And I don't know. I really love a long movie. Like I love a three and a half hour movie if I like the movie. If I hate the movie, I'm not as angry about it as other people are. Sometimes you get like a very hostile reaction if you've got a long film that doesn't live up.

But I remember we talked about this a bit during the brutalist era, you know, where I was just like, just throw it on me. Like, put another hour on it. I'm into it, you know? So stuff like this when I was younger, you know, my friends would make fun of me for being like, I'm going to watch Seven Samurai when I was in high school. But I don't regret it now.

But the thing with an epic movie in particular is that it is told with the scale and intent for it to be large and have a lot of things and thus, like, be long. That is part of the proposition. I get frustrated when it's a movie that really just, it could have been a tight 150, you know? And because of, people not making choices or things just getting a little bloated, the movie overruns.

It's, you know, designated ideal time. But these are supposed to be big. And I, again, I like it when people try things. Yeah, it's funny how, like, the mechanics of, like, one of the Star Wars sequels, while having a lot of the trappings of what would be an epic film, like, didn't even occur to me to put in attention, you know? Not that I would pick, you know. Yeah. Yeah. I know what you mean. But you know what I mean. Yeah. The Last Jedi, you say. Not that I would pick it, but that goes to multiple planets and it has a huge scale. Because that's not your Luke Skywalker? Why would you not?

Yeah. What is it? Order 66. I'm going to order 66 truth. Okay. Sierra, you've got two picks. Okay. For romantic epic,

stay alive. I will find you. Last the Mohicans here. That's beautiful. This is Michael Mann's 92, I believe. Adaptation of James Fenimore Cooper's legendary. like it's a legendary

book it's it's it's it's one of sort of foundational uh u.s. texts

in fiction um anyway uh also like is is regarded I think well or remembered more for its battle scenes for West Dutie's incredible performance as Magua

but like really the heart of the film is this romance between Daniel Dale Lewis's character and Madeline Stowe's character and um You know, this is a guy from who's living out in the woods and has been raised by indigenous peoples.

And this British aristocrat comes over, this daughter of a British officer. And yet they connect and have like this kind of primal star cross lovers thing. And he goes over waterfalls and up mountains to make sure she's okay. And that's what it's all about. And that doesn't speak to you at all. I will find you, love you, marry you. Yeah. Sure, of course.

Yeah. I'm a fan of this film. Yeah, pretty good movie. It's a... It's an hour and 50 minutes. Well, it's okay. You don't think this is epic? I do think it's epic.

I do think it's... Listen, rules are, you know, made to be broken. It's why I asked that question. And Michael Man drove people totally insane making this, where he was just like, you have to, you know, weave that quilt and cobble that shoe. There's only one thing that could have made this movie better. Do you know what it is?

Score by Audio Slave. That would have really improved it. Otherwise, great film, great pick. You got another pixier I have such a desire to mix it up in terms of era You did a nice thing there by it you both did You weaved romantic and war epic Sure

Do I have to do the same? Should it have been romantic war epic? I mean which romantic epics Don't involve war or great strife and loss That's a very interesting question They are like intrinsic Not all war epics have a romance Strife, yes

Sure Titanic It's not a war Yeah, that's true Well, it's a class war You know Amen, amen, sister That's absolutely right

You were siding with Billy Zane We all know it For biographical epic Yeah I'm gonna go Malcolm X Okay, I wanted this I was hoping it would still be there God damn it

So we're really It might have been my next pick Smash in the 90s But the reason why I was drawn to this, not only because it's just one of the great American films is also because of it pulls off the most

difficult task of one of these movies which is to convincingly take someone from a very young age to the end of their life and not have it feel boring or Wikipedia. And you are so rooted in Malcolm X's subjectivity throughout this movie.

The film's color scheme and musical identity changed throughout the years and throughout the decades. and throughout his changing consciousness and it's one of the great performances I think in movie history from Denzel Washington but it also actually feels like a story where someone starts some place

and ends someplace else on every possible level of humanity and I had to grab this one here. That was a good pick. I was going to do that so good job. It's interesting. I mean we have so many films but there are some cream of the crop ones I guess. Yeah.

There's going to be a long list of honorable mentions. It's interesting. I mean, you know, we're betraying our generational favor, I would say, by some of these picks. I'll do it with my pick as well. I'm going to choose in the same category biopic epic, and I'll take Amadeus, which is kind of a dual biopic in a way. To leave that from the list. It's okay. I got one more.

It's going to be okay. Told in an unusual fashion based on Anthony Schaefer's play, directed by Milo Scho Schoerman. It's the story. The series is pretty good, by the way, the one just came out. Yeah, I haven't watched that yet. Who's the star? Betney. Oh, Paul Bettney.

And is he playing Salieri? Yes. Okay. So, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. And Will Sharp is, uh, oh, fun. Okay. Ms. Mozart.

So this is the story of Mozart and Salieri to Viennese composers. Through the eyes of Salieri, sort of in the aftermath of, he's just attempted suicide and he's survived. And so he starts telling the story of his life and career through the prism of watching Mozart rise to genius and real time in this complex battle between his admiration for Mozart's evident greatness and his jealousy and the way that the jealousy is sort of like he constantly is kind of working to undermine Mozart in the face of the court and failing. Very fun performance from Tom Holtz as Mozart, you know, very ecstatic at a time when it seemed like Tom Holtz really had Hollywood in the group of his hand. And yeah, I mean, of course, F. Murray Abraham won an Academy. One of

me award for his performance as Salieri and maybe the biggest movie that Foreman ever made. Forman, not no stranger to an epic, but just an amazing film. And one of those films that like you hear about when you're a young person that like actually lives up, you know, that like lives up to its AFI 100 films. Did you take this in bio or an Oscar? I'm taking a biopic. Okay. Although you could take it in Oscar as well.

Yeah. At the Hollywood Bowl last night, I saw that they're doing Amadeus Live in concert this summer, which would be very fun. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. Okay. Is it the LA Phil performing? I believe so.

Yeah. The Mozart. Risen from the grave. AI Mozart. We brought him back. AI Mozart. Wow. I'm sure millions of people are doing that.

It's like a Waymo robot. It's like a WOMBOR robot. Okay. All right. Okay. How long is Amadeus? Let's take a quick look. It is 161 minutes.

Yeah. Longer than I remember. Pretty long. The Hulu original series Furious is coming to Disney Starring Emmy Rossum, Furious follows FBI agent Alice Black on the hunt for a mysterious and calculating serial killer. Both walk their own paths toward justice, and as their lives start to intertwine, the line between right and wrong begins to blur. Don't miss the three-episode premiere of the Hulu original series Furious on July 27th, only on Hulu on Disney Plus. This episode is brought to you by Accenture.

advertising operations fall out of sync. Everything else follows. Spotify and Accenture are working together to reinvent the rhythm of ad sales, using automation, analytics, and smarter workflows to simplify campaign delivery and access better data across the business. The result? Less time spent on operations, more time connecting brands with the moments and fandoms that matter most. Learn more at Accenture.com slash Spotify. This episode is brought to you by L'Oreal Group. Beauty is a powerful force that moves us. That's why L'Oreal Group has built a business that is inclusive at its heart with 100% of its brands, championing diversity. With 25,000 professional opportunities for people under 30 worldwide and 54% of leading positions held by women, diversity is a strength that helps Loreal Group create the best beauty products for all people. Visit Loreal.com to learn more. Okay, so you've got two things.

So I've learned that I got to lock my biopic down. So in biopic, I will take Reds. There you go. The 1981 Warren Beatty film that we talked a great deal about on the Diane Keaton Hall of Fame because it stars Beatty, Dan Keaton, Jack Nicholson. This also obviously would be eligible in romantic epic. If you were mine seen, really very special. And then I guess could be eligible. Well, romance and war are the same thing.

this is another one where it's political, yeah, fits the same struggle. I should have taken it. What was I doing? Not eligible in Best Picture Winner because it lost two chariots of fire. But does this count as modern? This feels, you know, newer than the 50-60s. But it is also feels a very different generation than ours. It's an interesting pick because I think the conversation that we want to have about The Odyssey

will never be able to make movies like this again. And I think there was some sense of that around a movie like Reds at the time. And one of the reasons it was so honored was because it was like, well, this is like the culmination of 10 years of greatness that Hollywood's been churning out with these kind of unabashed otors. And they're taking these huge chances on epic canvases. So, I don't know, can't ever close the book on them. But this is an amazing movie.

Incredible movie. And definitely over three hours long. So I guess it would have been eligible in many of the categories. Yeah. I would like to see you featured 30 years. from now in a similar fashion of the way Henry Miller's featured in this movie, testimonial style.

What would you be taught? Like, what would they be bringing you in to talk about? Henry Miller, the novelist. He's one of the witnesses who speaks about... Eugene O'Neill is in it, right? He is a character in it, but Henry Miller is interviewed

as one of the people who witnessed John Reed and Louise Bryant. You too? I'm asking you. What do you think you would be asked to speak about? Do you think there's going to be a film an epic film about me and Amanda?

I think I would look great in those hats. I think that that would work out for me. What are those calls Brian hats? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, I mean, Diane Keaton is just like on the tundra alone for a good solid point of 20 minutes of this movie. She's unbelievable in this movie. It's so good. I didn't hear the Hall of Fame.

Yeah, Reds didn't make it. Don't worry. It made it. Don't worry. What is it? Ushanka? What are those hats called? With the flaps and the big...

Oh, yeah. Yeah, did hers have flaps? I don't know about that. Anyway. Could be a Cossack? but isn't a Cossack something else as well? Aren't they violent marauders? We did explore on that episode

how our knowledge of Russian literature and culture is limited. It is quite limited, yeah. Yours is robust. It's really jagged, though, so I have about several tomes half-finished. You're right, 12-19ths

through Anakurina. Right, and then I watched Star City to completion. That's good. Pushkin? Never dabbled. Turgenev? Nope Fathers and Sons

Not so much Not so much Not done it Okay so I have a second pick here And I don't know whether to be Not so much Push and turgative drive by By Amanda

I just I didn't You know Just haven't read it Haven't read it So I could be strategic Or I could Kind of go with my heart here

And I think I don't know I think It's already been mentioned So in epic best picture winners well I don't know what should I do here

oh my goodness you rarely see the queen sweat a zigzag geez unsure well I just I guess I should do honestly what's your color story what do you want to say about yourself at this pick

well I've already said what I want to say with English patient and Reds and JFK which just features a lot of really hot people as some of them are solving conspiracies and the others are having JFCA Tommy Lee Jones. Absolutely. Some of the hottest shit I'll ever see.

Love triangles, you know. Among other things, yeah. Right. That's true. Insane wig work in there, yeah. Love triangle between the CIA. You sure. Exactly.

You know? The greatest love affair of all. So I, that's my color story, our love triangles. And this doesn't really. You should pick with your heart. I mean, my heart also does have a love triangle. Did you get biblical yet? No, that's the thing.

Should I do biblical? I'm going to do biblical. Yeah. So I'm going to take Benher because whatever. But the chariot scene, yeah, is, that's pretty awesome. Okay. You know, speaking of forces who died, RAP to them. So many.

It's really insane that they did that and for how long they did that. And it's incredibly memorable. Do you think Cecil B. DeMille would recognize Hollywood today and its woke culture? Interesting question. Yes. You know, I watched Ben Hurd for the first time during COVID. Okay. I'd never seen it before.

And I say this with respect. I was surprised how gay it was. It's like a shockingly homoerotic film about men sort of returning from war to be reunited. And they're sort of like, brother, in his eye. And like clutching each other in very dramatic fashion. And obviously there's something in a lot of biblical storytelling that has that. And they parade around with horses. But there's a lot of sort of epic passion.

for lost love amongst men. It's a huge part of the film. You don't relate to that? I get it. I get it. You know, as somebody who has deep bonds with male friends. Yeah. Ben Hurd, I would say intermittently great, but when it's great,

its greatness is like the ceiling. Yes. In terms of like epic Hollywood filmmaking. Of course. Yeah. So you fast forward through to get the vistas and the chariot race. And then when it's Charlton Heston in a dark room, kind of recreating a Rembrandt with someone else.

He's in a stable and he's got his hand on a man's shoulders and you're like, you guys are really close to each other right now. This is what's so great about it being on during the holidays when it would just be on TNT for 24 hours. It was completely, like I have no recollection at all of what the narrative is. And whenever Chuck would go into a dark room, I'd just get another turkey sandwich. Okay.

So I was strategic. So is it back to me? It is. Sheesh. Well, I'm really betwixt in between. I guess for romantic or war epic, I'll take the deer hunter.

Okay. Which I think is, is a war epic? Is it not? Of course it is. Yeah, I think this sounds. It's very romantic. We don't have a war epic category, do we?

I have romantic or war there. Or war. Yeah, you didn't have to do romance. Gotcha. But you did anyway. Yeah. That's why I was saying, when you chose Last of the Mohicans,

you kind of fused the category nicely. The romantic part of Last of Mohicans is when he tears his fucking heart out and shows it to everybody. That's true love. Michael Chimino's best picture winning would also be eligible in best picture. Story of four friends from a steel town in Pennsylvania

who all in love with their girlfriends. One of them gets married and then they go to Vietnam and terrible things happen there and they're forced to live with the trauma and PTSD of what they did there. and what happened to them, and some of them don't really come back. Some come back, but none of them really come back. A beautiful movie, Robert De Niro, Merrill Street,

Christopher Walken, John Savage. Yeah, I mean, it's, I think also, sort of similar to Amadeus, like, sort of redefines how you might think about a war movie. This isn't a movie that is, like, defined by its battlefields. It's defined by everything surrounding those experiences, but very much of its time, very much commenting on a group of young men

who were just coming back from Vietnam. And it's sort of like the flip side to other big epic movies like Apocalypse Now, which may come up in this conversation in a movie that I've always really loved. And it's kind of the end in a way for Chimino because he makes Heaven's Gate next. And that augurs the end of that Reds era that we're talking about. And, you know, I did just pick up his film Desperate Hours in Canada. Is that the little Mickey, Mickey Wark? Kidnapping movie, right? I like that film. Yeah, I do too. I got it on Blu-ray. What did say about Mickey Rourke on the draft that we did?

Tough hang? No, it was funny. Bad boxer? Good boxer, I really had no idea. He was probably a good boxer. Was he? He was also, he was just more than I ever did. He was also the Pope of Greenwich Village.

That's true. Were you ever the Pope of a neighborhood? Hillhurst right now. You are the Pope of Hillhurst. No, I don't have that kind of sway on Hillhurst. It's not like they see me coming in there. Listen, there is nothing more fun than walking down Hillhurst with you. It was 2015.

Other men in short jackets. Sir, sir, sir, such a big fan. I never do this. It was early, it was January, 23. 2015. We went to Little Doms, me, Eileen, and Phoebe. Bringer had not even started yet. And, you know, I think we had a couple of penicillins. You know, I like to have the penicillin at Little Doms. And maybe some meatballs, maybe some arachini. And we walked out. And three of those chorecoded men that Amanda was describing came out. They all had beards of some fashion. Yeah. I could tell they were really into craft cocktails. Uh-huh. As if you're not. In 2015, you just name-checked a penicillin?

They rewatched Band of Brothers like every two years. And they were named like Tyler, Lyle, and Keith. Keith, perfect. And they grabbed you by the shoulders. And they said, sir, your great works will live on in me. Thank you for everything you've done. And Lowe. Yeah.

Here you are. We've launched so much around that. Yeah. You know. You are a beautiful ship. Yeah. That's right. Okay.

You got picks. Okay. You just have one pick. No, I have several, really. Two, right? Oh, wow. Yeah, I'm just really sitting on the end of here. You got to wait for a little while, Amanda.

What categories you have, Chris, do you know? Yeah, I have Oscar. Well, remaining, you mean? Oscar, Biblical and Wildcard. And what about Odyssey Inspired? Oh, and Audit. So we have former picks left? Yeah.

Well, for Odyssey inspired, I'm going to go with the searchers. Okay. Which is John Ford's Western. Heard of it. Yeah. That. is about the cost of going home or the cost of trying to get back home. This is a film about John Wayne's character,

Ethan, who is not really fit for the increasingly modernized and civilized Wild West going to quote unquote rescue his niece from Apaches, I believe, when she was kidnapped as a child. And it's an incredible, epic tale of going out and coming back, but what it costs the people who do it and the

myths that they tell themselves about why they're doing what they're doing. And I know it's like a somewhat controversial film in some ways, but is honestly one of the most amazing things to look at that I've ever seen on a screen. Great 4K. Was back in the news, and for one battle after another, of course, many overt. acknowledgements of, you know, kidnapped young girl and there's an Apache figure who figures prominently in the story. Huge framework for the movie.

So I'll take that in movies inspired by The Odyssey. And then in Best Picture Epic, I'm going to go Double Lean and I'm going to take Bridger on the River Kwai. Oh. Look at you. So 57. And this is...

Topoline. Drinking Lee. Yeah. This is David Lean's World War II. Epic. Do you think DJ's crew like David Lean Films? I don't see why not. Probably, right? Just leaning back and some Promethazine. I wish you would have

sampled some William Holden dialogue from this movie. Wow. Alecannis and William Holden and Jack Hawkins playing Prisoners of War in World War II and they got to build a bridge, you know? And sometimes that's a foolish thing to do.

Do you think you'd be good at building a bridge? think I would be good at getting people excited about the project. The engineering aspect. And honestly, you know what? I think I do feel like this is probably in my last couple of years that I can carry planks of wood and stuff like that before I enter, you know. Okay. My wife keeping me propped up in a hospital bench with a newspaper to prove that I'm alive. Yeah.

Now, he's alive. I love Virgin on the River Kwai. I love this film. Were you going to take it? I forgot to write it down. Okay. Wow. Yeah, I just forgot.

Yeah, so let me bring you after. I probably would have taken it three rounds ago. Let me, let me bring you up to speed, Chris. So you guys, I got out of the van on Friday. You dropped us. That's where I was starting. You dropped us off. First Terminal.

You continue on your way to live your East Coast life. And we sat in the lounge and like sort of talk to each other, sort of looked at our phones. It was a nice time. Yeah. And then we get on the plane. And we think like plane Sean is about to be upon us. You know, I've prepared the inbox. I've prepared my mental state to get ready for plane Sean.

He held it at bay while we waited for the plane, which I appreciated. And then we get there and I'm getting ready. to do you want to prep for this draft? No Wi-Fi. No Wi-Fi to be had. Five hours. Nothing but my own brain. Small talk? Well, we weren't sitting together.

Oh, too bad. And we didn't really. So, no, I slept. Yeah. I just raw dog it the whole time, hands in my lap. Anyway, so that means... No, it's not true. What I did is, I watched the Guy Ritchie film in the gray.

Okay. I had a nice time. Was that on the, like, back to the plane? No, I downloaded it on my laptop for just this, just this occasion. Oh, in case of a video. emergencies. Yes. And did you read Radinkeith?

I've already read the Radinkeith. It's really good. Yeah. I've tried to have a whole conversation with him about it. I know this is what, what happened to us? I don't, we were off sync.

That's all. I know, but we talked about this. And I was like, it really helped me understand London. You know, I know it's just like one person's story. I guess it's when you were giving me the news digest about Captain

Pinhead or whatever. Captain Binhead. Count Benface. Yes. Captain Pinhead. Pinhead from Hellraiser? Is he figuring into British politics? I don't understand what I did in the van ride out there

that was so controversial. Well, it's, you just, at some point, you didn't think we were funny anymore. Here's what I remember. We were talking about things that would be on each other's family crest. Oh, yeah. And the things that would be on my crest

that I described sincerely were chicken, as I love chicken, remembering the good times that would be represented somehow, and then a third thing of indiscriminate memory. I don't remember what that was either. You know what it is, is I think before a live show,

you guys have to be 1,000% yourself. and you're like, I must buy media. And you're like, I have to buy a Celine dress. And then as soon as it's over, as soon as it's over, you're like, I'm a fucking goofball. And I'm like, well, I've still got work to do out there. Yeah. You do. I'm Chris Ryan 24-7.

You got to shake Tyler and Keith's hand and look them in the eye and make their day. Okay. You have another pick, right? You took Bridge on the River Kwai. And what was the other one? The searchers. Oh, the searchers. Wonderful.

Those are good films. Yeah. I picked some cool movies. I've heard of those films. Okay. Odyssey inspired. I'll take, oh, brother where art, though. Which is, I feel like I feel like I keep overlooking.

And I'm glad I'm very... It's kind of becoming your brand, though, when we talk about Wes Anderson, is to be like, and what about the Darjeeling Limited? So it's good that you did this here. That, well, this is sort of my Darjeeling Limited for the Coens, right? The movie that, like, I overlooked and maybe didn't take it seriously. Yeah, the real ones know Darjeeling Limited is, is like kind of high up there for Wes. But that took years to happen.

Upon release, it was everybody was like, oh, actually, Wes Anderson, are we sure? And now you go back, you look, you know, Claire de Loon drops, let's get high and they're around the fire. Like, that's the real shit. Wes is the man. Like, I got to say when I was at the bowl thing, everybody wandering around was like, we all know Astrid City is the one. Like there was like a lot of that going around, which is nice. It's nice to be amongst your people. Bro men crying, whispering.

Yes, talking to my five-year-old. Well, Brother where art thou is, of course, not Wes. It's the Cohn Brothers. Oh, wait. I thought you picked Archieling Limited. Sorry, I was looking at my list. I'm sick. It's still available. It's still available.

Okay, great. Brother Worthow is the Odyssey in many ways. It is. It's also the tale of the soggy bottom boys and the trio of aspirant. How would you describe their music? Bluegrass, right? Hillbilly bluegrass? Yeah.

Gospel-tinged bluegrass, I guess. Hysterical movie. In genius construction around Homer's epic poem, but with a very specific Cohen's set of humor and... Pathos, I guess. George Clooney, never better. Tim Blake Nelson,

incredible in this. John Turturo. Yeah. Goodman. Wonderful cast all around. Goodman's in this, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah, he's...

He's like the Cyclops-esque figure. And yeah, I love this movie. It's a great one. It's honestly probably worth a revisit after seeing The Odyssey and just seeing just how close it is in the episodic fashion

of the Nolan town. The Cohen's really robbed us because when they broke up, I feel like we haven't really gotten to pot of about them as much as we would have. No, we did, I did Buster Scruggs with Adam, I remember. And then that was the, that's their last film.

So, yeah. Did we do Hail Caesar? Was that out? Nope, before that came up before the show started, 2016, right? Yeah, I think so. Hell Caesar. I think it was like first year of the ringer when it came out. Thought at the arc light when that still existed.

Yeah. They're the greatest. I got my fingers crossed on Jack of Spades. The Ethan films hasn't been going so well. Joel, we've really only gotten tragedy of Macbeth. But when are we going to get EPMD back together? Great question. I mean, hopefully soon. Is that Ethan and Joel making dollars? E.J.M.D.

Yeah, that would be pretty good. All right, Amanda, you've got two picks. So Darjeeling is on the board for you. Well, good. I was looking at my list. But so in Odyssey-inspired epics, I would like to put forth the Wizard of Oz. Sure. Which is about a girl getting home.

So, you know, maybe not. It doesn't speak as much to the other people on this table. Girls allowed to be in these movies? Does Daniel DeLuis save her? But, I mean, otherwise has all of the hallmarks. It's like there is no place like home. It gets waylaid by various weird people and drugs and a mythology of a world that she is not totally familiar with, but learns over time with the help of various deities. A Cambrian hero's journey.

Yeah. So there we go. The Wizard of Oz. Pretty good movie. Don't go to the sphere. version. See the whole thing, please. Yeah. I think watch it in full and then go to the sphere. Sure.

It would be interesting. Yeah. But don't start there. Exactly. That would be a weird way to start. Correct. But I, you know, Darjeeling Limited was going to be my backup. Okay. And then... That's all you got to say about the Wizard of Oz, huh? Well, I think we've talked about it once or twice. I've, I have compared it to the Odyssey, which was the parameters of my pick in this one. Yeah, what a beautiful movie. Yeah, I love it. It's my favorite movie. I know. Why didn't you pick it? I didn't think about it.

I didn't have Wi-Fi on the plane. You just didn't, you forgot all the Oscar non-like winners? I didn't have Wi-Fi on the plane. I don't know what you want to say. Do you think that this movie was robbed by Gone on the Wind? Yeah, I guess so. I mean, like, I understand the accomplishment of Gone with the Wind. It is a great film.

It is made in hateful history, no doubt. There's a lot of really rich clipping material you're providing people today. You're probably right. The Bible is gay. And Gone with the Wind is great. I mean, both things can be true. I agree. There's lots of really amazing stuff in Gone with the Wind.

But the Wizard of Eyes, you know, this single moment of it going from black and white to color is just like, you know. It has become a stand-in for, or like a shorthand for like a transformative experience. but that's what it was for movies as well So, and you know, it's beautiful They share a director, sort of. Victor Fleming was a credited filmmaker on both films, right, even though the Wizard of Oz had like four filmmakers attached to it.

Okay, so you have gone with one. Did you take a second one choice as well? Okay. So, epic best picture winners. Hmm. You may have backed yourself into a bit of a corner here. No, I don't think so. No?

I think I'm going to do, so are we not counting Godfather part two as an epic? It is an epic. for sure. Yeah, so I'm going to take Godfather Part 2. You're just nodding your head. I was kind of hoping you would have to take Patton. There's a lot left, I think. Yeah, there's a lot. I'm picking from other good things, but this is, I still think, the single greatest screen performance, Appuccino and Godfather 2 that I have seen.

I mean, there are many good ones out there, but I pick this one. And... I thought you were going to say Abe Vagoda. Also a good performance. Yeah. But I think, you know, as to its epic qualities, it's multi-generational, multiple locations. Sure. Swelping. Yeah.

Jump's international things. Crisis of family and of life and death. And also the CIA or the mob is somewhat involved. So there was a... Over the Godfather. We have this conversation every time we talk about this. But in this format, you would take it over the godfather. I actually think she's right because it has the flashback.

Yeah. You think it makes him more epic? I do. Yeah. Because of the time quality. I mean, he goes to Italy. Sure. Sure.

Yeah. But it's like, you know. They blow up that car. They do. That's very upsetting. I think he was in the car. No. Well, you and you and Bill spoke very specifically about that young actress.

I don't think we were aware of what we were saying at the time. Okay. I can neither confirm nor deny that I was aware. I see. All right. Continue on. Yes, I feel for the purposes of this exercise, part two is more epic. And I, part two is really good.

Hades will remember. So is part one, you know, they're both really good. What about the third? What are the longer runtime? I don't know the answer to that. Two? Probably two. Is three longer? No, right?

255 for the Godfather. And 322 is what? what I'm looking at for Godfather part two. 22. And what's three? Just out of curiosity. Didn't Google that? Three is nine hours.

Two hours, 40 minutes. Yeah. As you know, three is good. Yeah. I'm not really, I really enjoy it. And it has flaws, sure. You know what else has flaws? The Bible.

These things have flaws. You're so right. Thank you. Nice to hear that out loud. Okay. Clip that. I say I was wrong. I say you were right when those things apply.

which is frequently. Okay, you've gotten two films. Yes. So I'm going to take a film. The Wizard of Oz and the Godfather Part 2. Just really slum it over here. Crazy, crazy draft. Epic best picture winners,

I'll tell you what I'll take. The Lord of the Rings is the Return of the King. The rare fantasy film that neatly fits into this. So in that one he gets the ring? Who's he? Gullum. The ring goes into the volcano. Glems has the ring.

He only touches the ring for one second. Soron. No. Soron is the, he's the building. Tree people. No. I don't think you're being serious. I think you know more than you're letting on.

Isn't this a great movie? This movie? Yeah. It's the third best of the trilogy. Wow. He's turning back. I think that's right. I think that's right.

I am most swept up in the fellowship of the ring. I think two towers has the most epic battles. That's got Helms deep. But three is really satisfying until you get to the third end. ending and then hold on two more endings. Do you know how long the extended version of the return of the king is? The extended version that, you know, people now. It's like four hours long, right?

Four hours and 13 minutes. She's never seen it. Do you know which? Yes, I have. Do you know what the towers are? No. Okay. Don't tell her.

You're just so mad. I saw, I saw two towers into Return of the King. Like, in college. And it wasn't for a boy also because that was not the flavor that I was going for. Why were you doing? I don't. I don't know. Why are you crying?

Because I was trying not to laugh, as you guys just said, Lord of the Rings words to each other. We didn't even geek out. Would you have made Fellowship of the Ring available for movies inspired by The Odyssey? Hmm. I don't think so because it doesn't complete it. You can't pick the trilogy, right? But that's when those guys start whining about going home. That's true.

If you were given prime real estate in the Shire, would you take it? take it? Shire is an incredible investment opportunity and also not for nothing I would feel

like Wembe at the Shire because those guys are all four feet tall so I'd be like you guys want to play pickup you had to be dunking on Frodo

you're like I bet you wish you fucking fell in that volcano dog that's good yeah that's funny remember the photo

of I think I was Paul Meskell and Andrew Scott and like our greatest British minds. The Hobbit is after Shire opened to Zara. It's really very good. Good job. Who serves to know? Your turn.

I have How's no laptop going? Pretty well. I mean, I feel definitely like I'm just hanging on your every word. Okay. Yeah. I'm not getting distracted by... With no laptop you've drafted three men and a little lady and heartburn in the epic movie draft. Here, let's spice it up a little bit.

Okay. Let's throw a little cayenne in here and let me see how much you guys like me. Because in biblical epic, I'm going to take Kingdom of Heaven, the director's cut. I think that that's not technically about the Bible. But Crusades and in defense of, I wondered whether you would do this. If you don't have the Bible, there is no kingdom of heaven. You say what? The Crusades, though, are not enumerated in the Bible, which is a point of contention.

I... I will allow it because... I did not define biblical epic by saying it must be stories of the Bible represented on screen. It is a war over the Bible. That's just because he likes you. And also because he thinks the Bible has a lot of, you know, homerotic tendencies and showing his love. Well, the filmic representations of the stories, you know? I mean, biblical is right there in the title.

But I think it's fine. Well, I had said, do you, I texted you and said, do you think we should make this religious epic? Because that way it's more non-denominational. Oh, okay. So you could choose what? Well, why don't you say that to Old Hollywood? Kingdom of Heaven. You know, it's a spiritually religious epic.

You know, it's not necessarily a book of the Bible, but rooted in it. Yeah, I think it's okay. The extended version, I don't think you should be able to choose. Why? Why not? Because that was just like, that wasn't released theatrically, right? What? That's what you're standing on right now?

I'm not choosing extended edition. First of all, you're just absolutely, you're stabbing Joanna in the heart right now. And I say that as someone who saw it. Because of the EZA controversy. But I thought that you made the correct decision. I thought it was very, very apparent. Yeah, it's kind of like setting the Swiss guy off for simulation.

It's like it hurts, but you have to do it. Okay. Okay, we're not talking about that. But then you're going to allow him to... After flop Central from Argentina for five straight matches, get out here. We know it would be a fun wrinkle for this podcast. What? if we gave you yellow and red cards.

And you could start showing. Yeah, you'd be sent off five minutes in every episode. Maybe, like, if we, like, disagree with it, you would go to VAR. But just me, only I get the yellow and red cards? Yeah, you're the most referee of us, I think. Yeah. I mean... I think you would get the biggest thrill sending me off.

I mean, I would... I've been begging for props, you know? And yellow and red cards have become a big deal in my house. But they're... For whatever reason, Knox thinks of them his tickets. So he just... He's like, Sae gets a red ticket. and then just like runs away. So yes, I think that's great.

The thing here is, I mean, biblical epic is very clear. You know, this folds, like... I don't know, let's see the peanut gallery. There's no appeal process here, like, in a court of law. Like, I don't know what we're doing. But I like that he wants to give it to you because of friendship.

But then... That's not why. The reason that he's going to disqualify it is because of theatrical runs, rather than the very obvious title. The director's country's country. had a road show. Is that true?

Yes. Where? At theaters. At some theaters. Which theaters? I think like it was at like the arrow. You might be right. You might be looking it up right now.

What happened to you on that plane? You really lost your fastball. It's been an insane five days. Honestly, but it started when you were just like, I don't care what's happening to Leo's and the planets. Oh, that was just, really, can I, I'll just say, I'll just say, I don't remember. I don't remember you ever talking about astrology this much. And I think... Well, that's because the planets were not aligned in our favor until yesterday was the day.

July 12th was when we were supposed to start taking action. I don't remember what I did to take action. But it's a long process until 2028 sometimes. So you guys are going to be taking action until 2020? Yeah. And then everything is aligned for us. And I was trying to tell Sean about that, my fellow Leo. And you were like, get out of here.

If I haven't been taking action before, I don't know what else I can do. I feel like I'm at the end. I feel like I got to wrap this shit up. The Kingdom of Heaven Director's Cut was released on December 23rd, 2005 at the Lemley Fairfax Theater in Los Angeles, eligible. It was unsupported by advertising from 20th Century Fox. They didn't want people to see Ridley's vision. Too bad. I saw it. Did you see them in theaters?

No. Okay. Did you at the theater, at which it was released? It's unclear if we played other theaters. Do you have that steelbook? No, I don't have any steelbooks. Not a single steelbook. No.

I got it on that. I bought a hundred for an October on stillbook in Toronto. Okay, that seems valid. That's beautiful. It may have been a hundred Canadian dollars. I didn't really understand the transaction. Well, steelbooks are expensive. You know, that's the problem with them.

Okay, so did you take two films? You got a wild card, right? Oh, I took, so I took biblical. Kingdom of Heaven. Kingdom of Heaven directors cut to you. I mean, justice for a Joanna. but Kingdom of Heaven. I mean, Joanna can have a revenge, and she will.

I, you know, I agreed with your ruling then, and I support the spirit of this ruling now, but I would note that we are not applying the same consistency of spirit to Chris as to Joanna. We didn't define biblical epic beforehand. We did define that category. Okay. I mean, I think we did in the word biblical. You know, it's a text. I mean, are you bringing in the unrecognized gospels?

I don't know why you're fighting me. Is it just because you just like, I sided with Chris? Because I love Chris dearly. Like, what is the issue? He's making decisions. You yell at me to vamp every single time. You're right. Thank you for vampic.

You know? I appreciate that. Make a decision for Christ's sake. You're the one who gave us the heart out. God damn it. I'll take Carlos in Wildcarten. Biographical. Uh-huh.

Sure. No, I do. Fucking incredible. Olivia. Yeah, sure. Edgar Ramirez is Carlos the Jackal. one of the most infamous you know,

revolutionary slash terrorists of the 20th century and one of the most breathtaking hybrids of miniseries and film I believe this was released in theaters for those who wanted to plant themselves in there for that long amount of time. Yeah.

But can be viewed, I think it's on, there is a criterion version of it, right? There is, you can buy a criterion edition. It was on Netflix forever. I don't know if it still is. And it's basically two films. Yes. And an amazing soundtrack that's largely made up of British post-punk from circa that era.

And it's just a fucking phenomenal film about the post... I would say like the sort of rolling out of the 60s and into the 70s. So speaking of ASEAS, I started to watch The Wizard of the Kremlin on that same plane flight. Right. Fell asleep. Because of the performance, like because of the film or because... You see what I mean about the... Dano accent?

I was enjoying it. Okay. Did you get to Putin? No, I didn't. Yeah, well, then you haven't seen it yet. Putin as portrayed by Jude Law. I'm aware that that was coming. I will watch it.

I was excited about it and the way you would be excited about like a honey-baked ham. You know, or I was like, this is my one honey-baked ham of 2026. I'll be watching one two-hour-and-20 minute preposterous biopic of world figures. but it wasn't compelling enough to stay awake. Was it better than Michael? No, I guess you didn't. I guess it wasn't. It will be, I think. It will be.

But you know what Michael had? Michael Jackson's music. Yeah. Which is inherently entertaining. I wonder if Wizard of the Kremlin ever thought about adding some Michael Jackson's tunes. Probably expensive to license. All right. I think you can afford it.

I don't think he paid for the film. I have a wild car pick, right? I think so. Okay, this one's newly eligible because this was also recently released in the It's called Kill Bill the Whole Bloody Affair. It's the entire Kill Bill saga, which is just about one of my favorite things ever. Quentin Tarantino's originally conceived as one movie, movie that then became two movies, because Harvey Weinstein had an idea about splitting it in half to make more money that I think made maybe the production a little bit easier on Tarantino.

But seeing the movie together, which I saw last year on my birthday, before it was officially re-release. least, the version that I saw was the version that played at the Can Film Festival 20 years ago and still had the French subtitles hard-coded into the print. But now they made it available earlier this year, and it's going to be, I think you can stream it on Peacock now, and it's going to be available on home. That's my preferred way to watch films. Yeah, I mean, most content, really. That's where I watch everything, Peacock.

But yeah, I mean, just an epic samurai story shades of the Odyssey about a woman, you know, traveling to retrieve her daughter and go back home. Spoilers, I guess, for Kill Bill, The Whole Bloody Affair. Just an amazing movie. Recently at Video Tech, local video store in our neighborhood, I screened Shogun Assassin, which is a movie that is basically the first two lone wolf and cub films spliced together

and then edited together and then it has like a synth score attached to it that was released in 1980. I bring it up because in the fateful scene where Beatrix Kiddo meets her daughter at the end of Kill Bill Volume 2, which is now just part of the whole bloody affair, the movie that she watches with her daughter to go to sleep is Shogun assassin, which is insane. That's awesome.

And my daughter turns five today, no longer four, but I often think of what it would be like to show her Shogun Assassin, which is incredibly violent. But Kill Bill, the Whole Bloody Affair? Huge, huge movie for me. Your daughter is so far shown... Yeah, I was going to say Alice would be like, this rules!

Yeah, nothing with interest and openness. But that's got to be the word. worst thing is like you don't know how far is too far. We've never done viscera. Oh, okay. Yeah. You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And this is the whole she's washing jaws, which she wants to watch about.

Yes, yes. Like, we can do Ghostbusters and Godzilla and monsters destroying things. We've never done bloody stuff. I feel like that's, you got to wait for that. I think also that there's something they need to, they should learn about like that. You know, I remember the battlefield. No, like the first time I saw, like, a not 80s action violence, I was like, oh, my God, this is... This is very upsetting. Yeah. Yeah, I think so.

I think it would be, it's way too early for stuff like that, I think. You're at home she's going to be watching Save a Private Ryan. Undrafted here, although it's not too late. You've got one more pick, Amanda. Believe it or not, I'm not going to take Saving Private Ryan in Wildcard. I'm going to take Barry Linden, which is still on the board. I don't think you should be allowed to pick this. If you, why?

Because when he picked it in the best pictures draft, you went, Why did I do that? Because I think it was two and a half hours into a podcast and you were just like you're being boring. You were trying to score points. That's what was happening. I don't understand that. I don't, yeah, with who and with what?

It's one of your funniest things. Like you were just like out of nowhere. You just went, eh. But. Well, I don't. It just goes to show. I guess so. People change.

Yeah. People grow. That's right. Why are you mad about something that happened in a draft? It was extremely rude. It was extremely rude. That was hilarious. You're so so angry.

Okay. I don't remember it, which is what you say after every other conversation we've ever had. That is true. It wasn't in the spirit of the game, you know? If I have to deal with Ebola being sent off, because it wasn't in the spirit of the game. I was also recently served a clip of when you and me and Zach and Amanda potted together and you were quite rude to me. What did I say? Because I took once upon a time in Hollywood over Moneyball and you were like, get your fucking shit together.

We have to kill her. Well, you know what? We all have weak moments. Yeah. I was also, I think, eight months pregnant at that point. Exactly my point. We're testing your metal. You were really mean.

You had something big coming up in your life. I needed to make you stronger. I was wondering whether once upon a time in Hollywood would be eligible for this. Okay. You could make the case as like a Hollywood epic, but, you know. They do travel to Europe. Yeah. That's true.

I'm not sure it has the scale. Okay. I mean, the ranch? Yeah. Okay. The overhead shot? Listen, I think there's a case to be made. Do you get close? Is it an epic? No, I don't.

I think it's beautiful, but I don't think it's an epic. Django, I think is an epic. Any, I want to hear you talk about Barry Lincoln. I actually just rewatch it as well. If you can't shoot in candlelight, don't bother shooting at all is what I have to say. Wow, there's like four movies then. No, I mean, you know, one of our greatest filmmakers making one of the most beautiful, photographic, painterly, whatever you want to call it.

It's just astonishing to look at. And I think very funny. The Abel-Farararra book that I was talking about that I was just listening to on the way here, he was talking about it because in the run-up to making the Driller-killer-killer, he said that Barry Lyndon was made, everyone went out and saw it, and he said because of the way that Kubrick shot the movie, that essentially invented independent film because you did not need these massive lighting rigs to make a movie. And that the movie kind of taught you, even if you were making a down-and-dirty exploitation movie like Drillor-Killer-killer,

that you could figure out with a photochemical process and how they figured out how to make that look good on film that like it changed movies forever in a very, I never heard it put quite that way that like it made things actually easier. You don't think of Kubrick as somebody who like simplifies things. So I really loved that insight. Obviously Barry Lyndon is wonderful. Barry Lyndon on the rewatchables. What do you think? Unlikely. Okay. What's going to be the next Kubrick movie that gets in? We've had eyes wide shut. I think full metal jacket. 2001. The Shining. Full metal jacket and the clockwork orange. I could also see a strange love. you know, a Hollywood gray beard being like,

I want to do Strange Love. I think we could do Strange Love when Digger comes out. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think Bill likes Strange Love? I don't know. Strange Love is 10-star masterpiece. That's the problem with Digger in any movie like it. It's like, you're aiming for the moon, you know?

Like, you're aiming for the moon, man. The moon exists. Anyway, I'm just pre-predicting. That's the end of the draft, right? I think so, yeah. Yeah. So millions and millions of honorable mentions here. I mean, not millions.

Okay, I'll give you some of mine. Okay. Let's start with epic best picture winners, and we can say whether or not we think these are eligible. Gone with the Wind. Yes. The Godfather. Yes. Gandhi?

Yes. Out of Africa. Yes. The last emperor. Yes. Dances with wolves. Yes. Titanic.

I almost did it. Gladiator. Braveheart? Braveheart. The sound of music? Wondered. I mean, I think so. I think that there is, you know, I noticed as people were writing about this, that

Once it's a musical, then it gets put into a different classification. I thought about musical epic as a category because there are some movies that have real huge scope. Yeah. American in Paris, like three plus? I don't think it's... It's that long. But it is wonderful. Another Gene Kelly film that is very long.

A funny girl is very long. You know, there's like some films, and singing in the rain is under two hours as well. Would you have put best years of our lives in this? That's interesting. Emotional epic is like Something to think about that I think it could have gone a romantic epic It could have I agree

Other Best Picture winners What about a man for all seasons I mean I guess it is long And they wear You know from another time It doesn't have the scope Right It's more I mean it's courtroom to me

Yeah I agree with you And I think You know a courtroom can be part Of an epic See you haven't said Oppenheimer yet I was going to say, our last two Best Picture Winners, I think, qualify. Those were the last two in my list, Oppenheimer in one battle after another, both of which I think really fit the scale.

And honestly, what those two movies have done, which I've noticed, and we can talk about this a little bit with The Odyssey as well later this week, is they have complicated what the trend had been for Best Picture Winners, which was much more modestly scaled movies for like 15 years. You know, if you think of Parasite, Shape of Water, Green Book, Moonlight, Nomadland, Coda, like all the, so many of the movies that had been winning back. picture for 10 plus years where these

lower-scale intimate dramas and comedies and now Oppenheimer in one battle are huge. Okay, other movies that I made on my list. Biblical epics, nobody took the Ten Commandments.

Nope. I would prefer the robe. That's the one that I like the best if you're going to go with those technicolor 50s and 60s films. Pasolini's Gospel According to St. Matthew. There you go.

The Passion of the Christ. Yeah. I'm saving that for the next one. Nicholas Ray's King of Kings, I think is a good one. Greatest story ever told. I don't think that one's very good. Darren Aronofsky's Noah?

Sure. Great New Yorker article about it. The New Yorker article that broke Darren Aronofsky. Quovtis is another one. Barabbas? Barabbas. Yeah. What else?

Is that a bodice-bidus thing? Barabbas? I wasn't around. The bar? I don't know. Any other biblical epics? Guys get crucified in Spartacus, but I don't think that's what they mean. Yeah.

Samson and Delilah, there's Beth Sheba, there's a lot of those kinds of movies. I looked at a lot of those when we were doing the programming, the criterion thing, we were like, well, should we do it as these like Odyssey-inspired swords and sandals movies, like a faginia, like stuff like that, or should we do this kind of story? And we ended up going in that direction, obviously. Romantic or War Epic, saving private Orion, all quiet on the Western Front, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon? Yep. Sure. Platoon? Yeah.

Once Upon Time in China. Dr. Javago? Yes. The curious case of Benjamin Button. Oh, interesting. I didn't think of that. Did think of that one. That's a good one.

Not a movie I like, but romantic and long. My least favorite of the Finchers. Yeah. You guys got to open your hearts. Dunkirk? Yeah. I think so. Definitely.

Longest day, bridge too far. Yeah. Out of Africa? Not a movie I like either. Would you consider Great Escape of Epic or just like a really long, good world, well, great adventure movie? feel like, right? Any other westerns?

How the West was won Once Upon a Time in the West, I think I'd probably... I have once upon a time in the West in another category. Yeah, yeah, there's more. What are the other Westerns that I'm not thinking of right now?

We already mentioned Dances with Wolves. God, there's got to be a couple three-hour Westerns, so I'm not thinking, Wyatt Earp, for sure, Lawrence Caston's Wyatt Eart. Geronimo,

the Walter Hill film. Biopic Epic. Is Lincoln? Yes. I wondered whether you guys were going to do this. I was thinking about it. I had that if Malcolm X had been taken. The Aviator.

Sure. Ali, recently on the rewatchable. Che part one and two. Yeah. Definitely. Okay. Is Goodfellas a biopic epic? I can't really complain because you let me get Kingdom of Heaven and Bible,

but I personally just think of it as a crime film. I think of it as a crime film. I think of it. I think there are other Scorsese movies that would be eligible in other categories, but I didn't have this one down. I mean... It spans a great deal of time. It does.

It's a huge cast. It is a real person, story of a real person's life. You could make the strong case, I think. I didn't choose it, but I think you could make a strong case. You had after hours in your collection. I did. I did. Yeah.

That's very odyssey-coded. I mean, but if you're going to do Goodfellas and Biopic, then Wolf of Wall Street. would also be in my opinion. Well, I was going to also, speaking of Leo, ask about Catch Me if you can. Is that an epic? They go a lot of places.

Certainly the aviator is, right? But not that many people. The aviator, for sure. I mean, you know, there are people at the airport or whatever, but, um. What about the Revenant?

I think so. Yeah, I think so. I don't know what category would put it in, but. Yeah. I think it's a war epic. Yeah, right? There's so much battle in that film.

Man versus nature. Man versus bear. Yeah. The Revenant? No. No, me neither. Yeah. Um,

Shinler's list? Yeah. The right stuff? Marginal, but I think yes. The double VHS. I mean, this is the problem. I have like this association with the word and like the giant brick VHS

to tape release. But that would put like Prince of the City in there and it's like it was Prince of the City in epic. Yeah, I think so. The right stuff. Irishman? Yeah, I had it on it.

I was going to do it in wildcard or three hours if I didn't get to FK. Bernardo Bertolucci's 1900, which I don't care for. I don't either. It's like five hours long. RRR.R. Definitely a recent epic. We don't get them as much these days.

What about Kenneth Brunas Hamlet? The scale of that movie is extraordinary. I guess that's true. Is Henry the fifth over Hamlet? Is Henry the fifth an epic? Well, then we kind of get into, because you're adapting a play, and if you're doing like the unabridged version

or close to unabridged, plays are just really long, so we're musicals, so, you know, is wicked an epic? I don't know. Maybe if they made it one movie. Sure. You chose Gone with Wizard of Oz.

That's true. Right? A couple of other ones to round us out here. Tarkovsky's Andre Rublev, for sure. Chris, you actually drafted Carlos, you crazy son of a bitch. Speaking of Leonie... Should I not have?

No, you did. Should I not have taken it? I had it here. Once Upon a Time in America as well as Once Upon Time in the West, I think also qualify anything else. Do you want to list? Well, if we're doing Scorsese's, killers of the flower moon. I skipped over it. You're right.

Yeah. And that here, too. Or then Leo's. Um, okay. Dune, yes or no? I think Dune, too. Put them together. You know, Dune does more world hopping, doesn't it?

I guess you're right. Don't we see three different planets on Dune? But then, Dune two. Dune Could Dune 2 be Biographical? I was like Can I do a

Can I do Dune is biblical But Princess Not literal Princess Aerlon or Chani Just decide right now What I want to know is why he has to decide at all Yeah

He's God emperor You want him to have like an invite situation Yeah It's a good idea Dune 2 Chicks At the same time Okay

God, it's so good. That's great. Let's recap our draft so Chris can go. Sierra you chose first. Why don't you tell us what you chose? In Odyssey inspired films, I took the searchers. What's wrong with that? You pivoted so elegantly from Dune 2 Chicks.

You'll throw on your like, I'm doing a voiceover voice, and it's very funny. In Epic Best Picture winners, I took Bridge on the River Quiet. biblical epic you guys were nice enough to allow me to have kingdom of heaven the director's cut which played in one theater uh in movies over three hours i took lawrence of arabia and in wildcard i took carlos you forgot romantic epic and a romantic epic epic and in romantic epic i took last mohicans and in biopic epic i took uh malcolm x sounds like the phone era is off to a rocky start i'm not trying to be like the guy on his phone what i want is to be the guy who doesn't need any devices. That's the problem. Yeah. Even with the phone, you were flawed. This is why there's nothing wrong with a laptop in this environment.

But you guys don't make room for me. Get a bigger table. No. Get a smaller microphone. I'm not doing the set design here and I take no responsibility for it. Anything that happened here was designed by the wonderful people at Spotify or this person. Yeah. Okay.

I've heard your request and the answer is no. Okay. Well, then you guys are going to have to deal with me for getting multiple categories. In Odyssey inspired epics, I took, Oh, Brother, where art thou. In epic, best picture winners, I took the Lord of the Rings, the Return of the King. In biblical epic, I took the Last Temptation of Christ. In romantic or war epic, I took The Deer Hunter. In biopic epic, I took Amadeus.

In movies, they've accede three hours. I took seven samurai. And in Wildcard, I took Kill Bill, the whole bloody affair. Amanda. You could also just get a smaller laptop, you know? You just have, like, a Cadillac of a laptop for no reason at all. You should have a really normal-sized laptop. You should get a skytale pager.

I want to get the zero dark 30 like Dell tough book Just for all your rough housing Yeah just in case You get on a bell helicopter To fly in a much bigger computer I think that's a good bit

Yeah great okay Okay In Odyssey inspired epics I took the Wizard of Oz In epic best picture winners The Godfather Part 2 In biblical epic Ben Hur In romantic or war epic

The English patient In biopic epic Reds in movies that exceed three hours, JFK and in Wildcard, Barry Lyndon. She did the voice. I do, yeah. We all have a voice like that. This was fine.

This was good. Okay. I think this was a lot of fun, and we picked some great movies, but this was, this speaks to this genre that we've sort of invented

being interwoven into the fabric of the greatest films of cinema history. Now, in the future, Do you want these categorical drafts to be more narrow? Would that be better to focus in more clearly on? I mean, I think a swords and sandals draft would have been boring, but probably more... We just drafted like the best movies ever made. So I don't really have a huge problem with that.

Many are saying Carlos is one of the greatest movies ever made. Honestly, you see me on Hillhurst. Talk to me about it. Buy me a $22 cocktail and I'll tell you all about Carlos. Chris, my name's Jonathan. Thank you for. your work with Carlos. Well, sorry for trying to spread the word. I want to say thanks to Jack Sanders

for his work on this episode, our producer, thanks to Lucas Kavanaugh. On Thursday night, you will be able to hear Amanda and I speak about The Odyssey. It's a film we've now seen twice. Yeah. Just us, no one else, really what the people want. No, they do.

Well, you'll see you're going to... You're going to come back, right? You'll join us at some point. coming on Monday when we can go full spoilers Alright. By then I'll have taken lots of action. And audience theories. We never discussed the doomsday concept art

with Amanda. Oh. I got to go, but I'm just saying we didn't. We should keep bringing up top. Is that real? That can't be real. Just looking at images. Oh, dear. Isn't Gambit in that concept art? I think he's going to be in the film. Cool. Did you see Deadpool and Wolverine? Yeah. You did? You like it? No.

Because Evan's wearing like a mock neck? shirt here? What's going on? Thanks for joining us on the Big Picture. We were brought to you by State Farm, right? Don't you to say that. Don't say things like that. Okay, we'll see you next time. Bye.