The Big Picture - The Future of ‘Star Wars,’ Marvel, Pixar, and Disney’s Movie Monopoly. Plus: Our Summer Movie Awards and Paul Downs Colaizzo on ‘Brittany Runs a Marathon’ | The Big Picture

Episode Date: August 27, 2019

Disney’s D23 Expo brought with it a lot of news about the near and far future of streaming (1:00). Plus, we hand out awards for a slow summer in movies (18:00), and Sean talks to the writer and director of ‘Brittany Runs a Marathon,’ Paul Downs Colaizzo (54:35). Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guests: Chris Ryan and Paul Downs Colaizzo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of The Big Picture is brought to you by M&M's Caramel. Have you tried M&M's Caramel yet? Caramel has been square for far too long, and M&M's is doing their part by giving you that familiar flavor in a package you love, surrounding the smooth caramel and delicious milk chocolate. As always, M&M's knows how to bring spontaneous fun, just like, oh, I don't know,

giving out awards for summer movies that we might love. With M&M's Caramel, we can all agree that caramel is more fun than ever. So go grab some M&M's Caramel today and let your taste buds go for a ride. I'm Sean Fennessey, and this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about Disney's stranglehold in my brain. I am joined, of course, by Amanda Dobbins. Hi, Amanda.

Hi, Sean. And Chris Ryan. What's up, man? You ready? D23! We're, of course, gathered here to talk about a number of things, among them D23, Disney's biennial announcement slate of forthcoming projects. Later in the show, I'll have an interview with the writer-director Paul Downs-Calezzo, who's got a new movie that just hit theaters last weekend called Britney Runs a Marathon. It premiered at Sundance. It was purchased by Amazon. We had a great chat about that film. And then later in the show as well, we're also going

to be talking about our Summer Movie Awards. This has been a very bad movie summer. However, some bright lights, some dark stars. We're going to talk about both of those things. You like that? A little astronomy this morning. And I think we have to go into D23 right off the top. Amanda just told me that she read a thorough examination of the announcements made at this weekend event.

How are you feeling? Are you excited about the Disney Plus era upon us? Yeah, but you have to do this as Julia Binoche from nonfiction. Chris finally watched nonfiction this weekend. Not just the blog. It was clarifying. It was clarifying. It was clarifying, I think, for Disney and for me, possibly in different ways. You know, Disney has a strong brand, as we know, and it is quite clearly articulated in this. And I think that there will be many people, including parents and Star Wars fans who have and Marvel fans who have a lot to look forward to. And I will be sending my streaming

money elsewhere. Very interesting. Not surprising take from you. Chris, you are the co-host of a podcast called The Watch. Yeah. A long running podcast that looks closely at culture at large, but particularly television. There are a lot of TV shows in Disney Plus. Here's my take on them. Don't care. I'd like to talk to you guys about the movies that were announced. Yeah, but particularly television. There are a lot of TV shows in Disney+. Here's my take on them. Don't care. I'd like to talk to you guys about the movies that were announced. Yeah, sure. Aside from The Mandalorian, I do care about that. I just want to say. Don't you care about all the

there are two more Star Wars movies? TV shows, I'm sorry. Theoretically, The Mandalorian is the only thing I have a clear sense of what it is and what it's going to be. Which actually does feel like the Star Wars show that we should have had like 25 years ago. Yeah. Very like grounded in the dirt, small character look as opposed to the intergalactic battle

kind of TV show. The other shows, I don't even know. What are those shows? Isn't there a Ewan McGregor, Obi-Wan? Obi-Wan Kenobi show. Say it. Say the whole thing. Right?

I was just like, I think he's Obi-Wan. Even as I was saying it out loud, I was like, oh God it out loud I was like oh god am I getting the names right am I getting the names right have you guys ever just been like Amanda we're gonna do a Star Wars episode you should host and she she has to like have I ever told you the story of this is a fun game to play if you're like in a car and really bored is you can ask someone to just tell you the plot of a movie my husband and I do this sometime and we maybe we should just do a podcast of that sometimes because it's really wild what people remember. But famously, I was asked to do the plot of Star Wars. And I gave the entire plot with like intense analysis of the sexual tension between Luke and Leia and then also Han Solo and the trash shoot and all this stuff.

And just like did not mention the Death Star. The sexual tension between Han Solo and the trash shoot? They're in the trash shoot and it's very dramatic. Oh, I thought you were like, it's a metaphor. That stayed with me. And I even got Darth Vader, but at no point did I mention the Death Star or them blowing it up. The central plot of the movie just didn't exist in my brain. Spoiler.

Sorry. We have revealed here officially that the Death Star is destroyed in Star Wars A New Hope. I'm very sorry to everybody who hasn't seen episode four. Chris, what'd you make of the movie news? Non-Star Wars edition. So we got some Marvel news. We got a little look at the Lady and the Tramp live action. Yeah, so for most of my life, Disney has been like a non-factor.

I never really grew up in a Disney household. And a lot of these sort of legacy titles don't really mean a lot to me. I don't even know if I've actually seen Bambi, for instance. A seminal event in movie history. It's interesting to have the doorway into Disney as Marvel and Star Wars for me, but now being introduced to this huge volume play, and that that is kind of going to come attendant with all of this stuff. And one of the things, as we'll probably talk about when we get into the Summer Movie Awards, that's been kind of confusing to come attendant with all of this stuff. And one of the things is we probably talk about when we get into the summer

movie awards, that's been kind of confusing for me this summer is having to take things like Aladdin seriously. Have you been doing that? No, but it's like that takes up a lot of airspace. Have you seen either Aladdin? No.

Yeah. So you're not taking it serious. No, I'm not taking it seriously, but wouldn't you say that it plays a larger role in like pop culture in general because the like the volume of the megaphone is that much louder? Probably. Everything builds everything else. And now you've got these three things, the Disney legacy titles, Marvel and Star Wars, say nothing of Pixar and everything else that take up. I mean, this is what you're saying, the stranglehold on your brain. It's like 65% of the airwaves, man. It's true. Although in 1992,

Aladdin was a big deal too. So if you were hosting The Watch, which I don't know, what would it have been called in 1992? Smells Like Teen Spirit. Yeah, exactly. If you were hosting Smells Like Teen Spirit, the podcast. Yeah. You could get it on your Windows media player. It takes six days to download. You would still be forced to talk about Aladdin in some form or fashion, but you're right. The amount of mindshare that they have right now obviously is overwhelming. And this is, I mentioned this is a biennial event. It doesn't happen every year. The fact that it happened at this exact time while we're going through, I mean, Amanda, me, you and Wesley just had this conversation last week on the show.

We were like, we are being choked out. You know, Brock Lesnar has come to choke us out with content. You guys get that reference? I do. It's about wrestling. He wasn't in fighting with my family though, right? You're killing it today. Yeah, thank you.

You've been spending too much time on this podcast. It is interesting. Like I could not help but see the announcement around Black Panther 2 and just how far away that is. We are a thousand days away from Black Panther 2. That's a long time. It's become a cliche to say we're all going to be dead by then or the world will be on fire. But it's possible that some things are

significantly different in culture at large a thousand days from now. Like we may not even have TVs in a thousand days. I don't know what's coming. So to be planning that far ahead for something, particularly something that is so anticipated. Yeah. I thought it was so strange. I thought it was almost like teasing in a way. That's so funny because I had the opposite reaction, which is like this thing that we have been predicting for a long time, which is Disney as a monopoly is here. This, we have seen the realignment of the studios and the streaming services

and kind of what the big names are going to be. And we've been like, well, and Disney is just going to own everything. And Disney will have this movie and Disney will have the streaming service and the Mandalorian and all of this IP. And this was just a confirmation, a certainty of, OK, they have consolidated all of the IPs together. They have their distribution plan ready and Disney Plus. And what we expected to happen is going to happen. And I have an easier time imagining how Black Panther 2 is going to fit into entertainment as we excommunicated from the MCU is that there are a lot of people waiting online, you know what I mean, to get in to get their big screen time. There's a lot of characters. There's a lot of filmmakers. There's a lot of producers who are all like, so this was like a huge hit and we've got to

wait like four years and my guy's got to be in like a couple of 30-second spots in post-credit sequences of The Eternals? That's what you're telling me? It's like that, I'm not saying Black Panther would walk away from MCU.

I don't think that he, you know, Michael B. Jordan's not going to get, going to do that. But the Spider-Man thing I thought was indicative of Sony being like,

let's go. Let's do another one. Most definitely. But I think it's because, while I think, Amanda, what you're saying is right, that the playing field is kind of settled in a way, that it's, at least for the next six to 12 months,

it's going to be Disney Plus versus Netflix, and then HBO Max will come along, and then Universal will clarify what their play is. For the most part, we know what the short-term clarity is around things, but three years from now, I don't know if there's going to, I think around things, but three years from now, I don't know if there's going to, like, I think movie theaters might close three years from now. I don't know if we will have 4,500 movie screens three years from now. So getting that far ahead of ourselves, I think

you're right, Chris, that there's a desire to kind of plant flags. There has been. I mean, Mark Harris has been writing about this for coming up on 10 years now, this sort of like, we plant our flag on a film that we don't even know what it is seven years ahead of time. Black Panther 2 in particular, though, struck me as weird because it might be, after the rise of Skywalker,

maybe Avatar 2, the most anticipated movie that exists that we're aware of in the world. Am I overstating it to say that? Well, and I think that Avatar 2 is a good example. I mean, not that it's going to go, Black Panther is the weight

between Black Panther 1 and 2 is nothing resembling Avatar and Avatar 2 is a good example. I mean, not that it's going to go... Black Panther's... The weight between Black Panther 1 and 2 is nothing resembling Avatar and Avatar 2. But it is indicative of the fact that I think that like... Without seeing a single piece of footage, I think a lot of people are like, does anybody still care about Avatar? I was going to ask, who is anticipating Avatar 2 besides James Cameron?

I don't know. I don't know. But underestimate James Cameron at your peril. Because this is what happened with Titanic and this is what happened with Avatar. People were like, is this going to be good? I don't know if I care about this. And then boom, biggest movie of all time. And then boom, biggest movie of all time. Twice he did that. Twice people were like, I don't know. He lost his fastball. He's a weirdo. He loves to play with his toys. Doesn't understand humanity. So it's, I wouldn't underestimate Cameron. That's all I'm saying. I'm going to name some movie characters for you guys.

Tell me if you know what they're from. Thena, Icarus, Cersei, Ajak, Kingo, Druig, Gilgamesh. No? So, I'm assuming it's not Icarus and Cersei from Greek mythology. No, though I suspect that they are inspired by those titles. Then I have no idea who you're talking about. These are Eternals characters. We got a new Eternals character announced over the weekend.

His name is Black Knight, a.k.a. Dane Whitman. And he will be portrayed by Kit Harington. They got two Game of Thrones guys in these movies. Yes. In fact, two brothers have been reunited. Yeah. And I got to be honest, I don't really know what's going on with the Eternals. It feels like this is moving in the opposite direction.

It's happening too fast. I'm like, who are any of these people? Didn't you feel that way about Guardians? A little bit. Do you think that that's what this will be? I don't know. Guardians feels like a very unique proposition where it was like, this is in space and we're going to introduce all this stuff, but really just come for the one liners.

Yeah. If there's also a Gilgamesh here, then this is based on mythologies. Amanda, all of the comic books are based on mythologies. Amanda, all of the comic books are based on mythologies. Yes, but some of them are about space aliens and some of them are about things I care about. Like Spider-Man. Yeah. Spider-Man is based on being a teenager. Spider-Man is based on puberty, a mythology that we all have to experience. That's right. Of all these things that were announced in the Marvel world, that's the one that I'm the most interested in because it's the one that I least understand how they're going to do it and what they're going to do. And it's very starry at this point. Aside

from the two Game of Thrones alums, you've got Angelina Jolie, you've got Salma Hayek, you've got Brian Tyree Henry, you've got Gemma Chan, you've got a lot of Kumail Nanjiani. It's a lot of famous people here. I did want to talk to you guys just a little bit about the two Pixar movies that were announced. Thanks so much, Sean. I know you guys don't care for them, but I do want to just describe the plot. Go ahead. Why don't you go ahead and do this? Thanks so much.

Amanda, you left a helpful note here for Onward, which stars Chris Pratt, which is the next Pixar film. Wow, you didn't even put that in the outline. Unsubscribe. Which will arrive in theaters in the spring. This movie centers around two elf brothers who lost their father at a young age. Why has it always got to be at a young age? Some old elves, you know?

You want a story of old elves losing their father? Isn't that what elves are all about? That's a more natural thing to have happen. That's true. I suppose that's true. I guess I don't really know how elf families work. Well, traditionally, they live a long time, I guess. If we're talking, never mind.

Really helpful, guys. The second feature is called Soul. And this feature focuses on the question, why am I here? And tells the story of how each person on the planet received their soul. Jamie Foxx and Tina Fey will star. Yes, Tina Fey is what I think of when I think of deep existential questions for children. Didn't she make this movie? The one about moods? I think that was

Wine Country. No, but what was the one where it was like I have like a sadness creature? Inside Out. Inside Out. It's not in that. And Inside Out's really good actually. That's Amy Poehler. Amy Poehler, my bad. Well, the sadness one character is really affecting. I saw that in a movie theater

really yeah i just couldn't remember anything about it because it's a drawing i'm really glad i asked you guys to be on the show today um i know a couple of other films were announced dwayne johnson was there with a movie called jungle cruise which is based on the ride jungle cruise some iconic photographs of amanda dobbins at disney circa 1992, I would guess. Wearing a safari outfit? No, just being like, oh, well, there's a fake alligator jumping out. Yeah. Is Jungle Cruise still fake?

Am I thinking of Safari Adventure? Are you thinking of Lion Country Safari in Florida? Probably, yeah. So Jungle Cruise is fake. It was when I rode it or whatever I rode in at Disney World in 1992. I haven't been back to Fairfax. The ride itself, I mean.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, Jungle Cruise is, it sounds fine. When's that drop? I believe it's next summer. So is that, how do you think that's going to tie into Liz Warren's campaign? I don't know. I don't get that joke. What does that mean?

Because Liz Warren and The Rock have like a mutual appreciation. So Liz Warren loves Ballers. I don't get that joke. Hold on. No. He was literally reading Elizabeth Warren's book on the season premiere of Ballers. Here's my take on Jungle Cruise. It's directed by Yom Colette Sarah.

Do you guys know what movies he made? Yes. The Shallows and The Commuter and Run All Night and Nonstop. He makes deeply fucked up crime movies. And he's directing a Dwayne Johnson romp that probably won't feature Elizabeth Warren. I doubt it, yeah. If I had to guess Bob Iger's politics.

Maybe it'll be Crawl 2, and they'll finally investigate how to escape an alligator on land. I smell a crossover event. Yeah. I love the idea of it. There's also some Fox movies that have been shit on throughout this year,

but maybe now they'll get some respect. Ford vs. Ferrari was teased aggressively. How have they been shit on? Well, recently Bob Iger, in a call about earnings, throughout this year, but maybe now they'll get some respect. Ford vs. Ferrari was teased aggressively. Well, recently, Bob Iger, in a call about earnings, basically placed a lot of the blame

on Disney's down earnings on the failure of several Fox films that they inherited that they did not develop themselves. Ford vs. Ferrari, probably the first one

that they're really putting their back into. And I think it'll be a big-time Oscar contender, and we'll talk more about it on this show later this fall. Chris, this is on your corner, but there's a Breaking Bad movie? This was not a D23.

This was Netflix, if I had to guess, actively activating against— You mean when, air quote, someone leaked, air quote, accidentally, air quote, that there was a Breaking Bad movie in six weeks? Yeah, yeah. That seemed to be a very noted jockey back after all this D23. What do you make of a Breaking Bad movie in six weeks? Yeah, yeah. That seemed to be a very noted jockey back after all this D23. What do you make of a Breaking Bad movie? I can tell. I hear cynicism in your voice.

Well, I'm unsure. We had the same cynicism when Better Call Saul debuted. You're right. And Better Call Saul is one of the two or three best things on television. You're right. If they want to make a Breaking Bad movie, I am pretty sure it will be pretty good. This movie's out in seven weeks. It's been done for a while. Sorry, I stopped listening to you guys. Do you not like Breaking Bad movie, I am pretty sure it will be pretty good. This movie's out in seven weeks. It's been done for a while.

Sorry I stopped listening to you guys. Do you not like Breaking Bad? I'm glad that you have it. You don't like Breaking Bad? Too stressful for me. It's just also, like, you know,

it's good. It was great. Congratulations. We can't move on. We're all, if we're all stuck in the recent past or the past,

let it be Breaking Bad then, rather than Aladdin. That's my take. What would you rather have, Aladdin or Breaking Bad? Books. Yes, I would rather just like- Well, that's not what this podcast is about. And watch Succession. I would like to watch great stuff. I would like excellence. Okay. How about that? Okay. I think El Camino has a high probability of being excellent. I'm hopeful as well. They just didn't need to do it unless he had a good idea for it. I'm left with a slightly bad taste in my mouth after the Deadwood movie.

And I'm a little bit concerned about this execution. Yeah, but there are mitigating circumstances to that. Of course. I don't hold that specific aspect of it against the people. But the idea of returning to a story in this format so later on. The same problem was true of the Veronica Mars movie. Now, they brought Veronica Mars back as a series, and it was wonderful. When they made it a movie, it felt compressed, it felt fanservice-y, and it didn't really feel like the thing that we loved in the first place.

So maybe a mild layer of cynicism about this. Though, of course, we'll watch it on October 11th when it premieres exclusively worldwide on Netflix. How was that for a sell? Should we talk about Summer Movie Awards? Yes. So you changed the categories. Yeah, I did. I did.

Because you had two categories that you had were the best performance in a bad movie and the worst performance in a good movie. And I answered those questions honestly. Let's talk about both of those categories then. Oh. Pam, you can't do this. We prepared.

No, I'm ready. We do our homework. Here's what can happen. I can do whatever I want. And in this case, I've decided to do whatever I want. Let's hear your answers on those categories. Some of these will be silly and irreverent. Some of these will be obvious.

We'll talk about the very best movies that we've seen this summer. We'll talk about some of the most ridiculous stuff we've seen this summer. I did want to kind of play with the idea of best performance. So I originally was positioning best performance in a bad movie, worst performance in a good movie. Worst performance in a good movie seemed like a really mean kind of category, uncommonly mean for what I'm trying to do here. So I felt some resistance to it upon reflection. But if you feel strongly about what you've put down here. No, I don't really. I had a joke that started with me putting Cate Blanchett in best performance in a bad movie

and then Kristen Wiig in worst performance in a good movie. Oh, that is a good joke. Yeah, thank you. Okay. But I don't really feel strongly about either of those. And we just talked about them recently so we can move on. Okay. Chris, do you have anything you want to say since I changed the categories that some bids that you had that you want to make a note of here? For like best worst performance in good bad movie? Yeah. I had a best supporting performance

in a bad movie that I wanted to shout out, but it seems weird to lead awards with it. But why not? This is like opening the Oscars with best supporting actor. Austin Abrams in scary movies, scary stories to tell in the dark.

Which one was Austin Abrams? He was the kid pretending to be Kiefer Sutherland from Stand By Me. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And he was in like, he's been in a bunch of like teen movies, like he was in Paper Towns and stuff like that. He's in Euphoria. He plays Kat's boyfriend. And he's just

like really doing a lot in a role that does not require it. And he is going to star in the reboot of Less Than Zero on Hulu. And I don't know, he's playing the Andrew McCarthy character. I really, really like him, though. The thing I really like about you is you really have your finger on the pulse of teen entertainment. It's not as sarcastic.

Well, it's the minor leagues. That's where a lot of everybody comes from there. That's pretty good range that this kid is Kat's girlfriend and the most punchable person on earth in scary stories to tell. Yeah, and he was in The Walking Dead. He was on The Americans. He's like been around. He like doesn't do a lot of interviews. I think he takes his craft really seriously.

What? Yeah, seriously. Just keep an eye out. Awesome neighbors. I'm skeptical again, but okay. I trust your radar, so I appreciate that suggestion. I also had a best supporting

and a worst movie. Yeah, please share. I'm an A student and I do my homework. Of course. Keanu Reeves, Always Be My Maybe maybe i'm just putting that out there yeah that was good that that got quickly forgotten not by me i feel like it really pierced the bubble it popped the bubble of of cultural consciousness and then we just moved on yeah have you moved on chris i've moved on from that movie i would also say best performance in a bad movie, Emma Thompson in Late Night. I have that on my list as well.

What about Hugh Dancy in Late Night? Any thoughts on that? I still need some answers about what happened to that character. Hugh Dancy got written out of that movie. Yeah. I need some clarity around that. Was it a scheduling issue? Like, what was going on?

He's got to go be in WandaVision. Yeah. He plays the butler in WandaVision. Let's do a little bit more down the middle stuff. Let's just do best performance. What was the best leading performance that you saw in a movie

this summer? Well, the obvious one is Leonardo DiCaprio. I agree with Amanda Dobbins. I wrote this down as well. Yeah. How do we make this not just a once upon a time

in Hollywood podcast is the challenge. I would also say that Naomi Watts and Luce is Oh boy, are we going to do this now? as good as I've seen

Naomi Watts be in a really long time. Let's wait on Luce. I have some thoughts on Luce. We'll hold it till later in the show. And also we'll let people listen to more of the episode before spoiling Luce. I think Amanda has been gearing up to discuss this as well. You guys recommend movies and then I go see them and then that's what happens.

So it's on you. It's on us. I also wrote down Brad Pitt. I was compelled after listening to Bill Simmons and Wesley Morris talk about this movie that perhaps Brad Pitt is the star of this movie and should be in the leading actor category. Even though one of the three of us first spoke about the movie, I was fairly certain it was going to be Leo Best Actor, Brad Pitt Best Supporting Actor. Maybe not. Maybe it shouldn't be. Did you guys listen to Paul Thomas Anderson and Quentin Tarantino talk about the movie? I did. Not yet. I will, though.

So on the DGA podcast, they had a conversation about the film and it seems that we know PTA is a big Leo fan, but he seemed quite taken with Brad Pitt in this movie. Yeah, I just wanted to say

that that podcast made me feel much better about my skills as an interviewer. Because Paul Thomas Anderson would be like, Quentin fucking Brad in this movie.

I mean, he was like the cool version of Chris Farley. And I was like, oh, I'm okay at this. I relate. I'm nearly as bad as I thought I was. I don't think that's bad. I think that's honest. It's amazing how- The fucking lights go on when the neon,

and it's like it broke my heart. That's what he sounds like that's great i think he would fit in on this podcast i think you've put just like an inch more sass on pta than you may have had if you think about it it's like you worry so much about like what you're gonna say about like the quentin tarantino movie and then the guy who made the master and there will be a blood is like the fucking lights it's heartbreaking i i appreciate that it's a honest way of talking about movies it's nice yeah we don't have to be fancy i much prefer that to some film school bullshit so pta doing d23 fucking moana okay i watched it four times a day for a year. Broke my heart.

Fabulous PTA goes right in the Hall of Fame with Bobby Sony and Johnny Green Book. This is really fab PTA. We got to memorialize this one. Some of your best voice work to date. What were we talking about? This movie, Brad Pitt, Leo. And being an actor.

Who's the lead and who's supporting? I still think Leo's the lead, but Brad is kind of the three-quarter lead, you know? He's in so much of the movie. Well, I just think, like, responsiveness is a form of acting as well. And he is the person who's reflecting a lot of Leo back. That's the function of the character.

But presence is so much of what Brad Pitt does anyway. And I really do think it's a rare form of acting. So, and he does a lot of that in this movie. And it's not the type of performance that we traditionally think of as lead because you, you know, dummies want to sit out here like counting lines, but I wonder if they'll both run. I mean, that seems strategically really stupid. It does. It does. The tricky part is that Brad has not won and Leo has in this category. Now, Leo is not going to take a seat on the bench. That wouldn't be a very Leo thing to do. But I wonder if Sony and the movie puts a lot of energy behind him.

Anyway, it's evident to us that those two guys are, if not the winners, certainly in the category. I wrote down a couple of other people. I did as well. I wrote down Florence Pugh and Midsommar. I wrote down Himesh Patel in Yesterday, which is, you know, I think a movie that you and I quibbled over a lot and didn't love, but he's kind of going for it. And for a person that I've never seen before to be able to sing Beatles songs in front of, at Wembley is like, you know, it was impressive. I thought he was great. I had him in Good Performance

and a Bad Movie. Okay. And I also wrote down Beanie Feldstein. I did as well. In Booksmart, which maybe was a little bit swallowed up by the conversation

around Booksmart and whether it did or did not fail. Also, the Andrew Luck retirement of movies. It kind of was, wasn't it? It kind of slipped into that Saturday news cycle. Yeah.

Looking back, Booksmart's now made $23 million, which was pretty good now that we've seen what all these other movies have made, too. So all of that, I don't know, all that energy we put behind that conversation. I had to scroll for a long time on Box Office Mojo to get to Booksmart.

It's better than where Late Night went, you know? It's better where a lot of these movies went. I mean, like Britney Runs the Marathon, who knows how that movie's going to do. But that movie was also bought for a lot at a festival. It's hard to say. Can I also throw out Maya Erskine for a plus one? finally saw this movie i thought it was great yeah yes i thought it was very fun and you know we were talking to our pal juliet living and she was like i thought it was terrible which i i couldn't understand what she was talking about she's one of the queens of the

of the genre i think i agree with her i think it's a tremendous performance the flaw of that movie is that it's a movie about the guy character and who gives a shit about him. That's true. Yeah. That's true. It is. And when she is on the screen, it's transcendent. And it is really kind of a breakthrough for her. But it's less a rom-com and more like Mopiel. A guy has to figure out some really obvious things that he should have known for years. What do you think Chris and I liked about it? Okay.

Well, it's, it's, I mean, I haven't been single for a while and it was still really too soon on that front. I was just like, move on, move on. Also, they shouldn't wind up together because she's way better than him. So that's tough. I would say that I think her, she had some problems of her own. That's, we're all flawed was my takeaway from the film. Yeah, but everyone can be flawed

and there can still just be a power imbalance. That's all I have to say. Power imbalance? I don't think that's what this movie is about. Crew chef Kennedy? Plus my first guy banging her shoe on the table at the UN? It's love. Let it happen.

That's great. I really hope that she gets the opportunities she deserves of the UN. It's love. Let it happen. That's great. She is, I really hope that she gets the opportunities she deserves because between Pen15, Wine Country,

and Plus One, she's had a great summer and I'd love to see somebody put her in a big movie that asks a lot of her. Any other lead roles, Chris?

No, I think we covered the ones that I was You got one more, Amanda? Honor, Spit, and Burn. Yeah, good one. Yeah, The Souvenir. This is not the last time we'll talk about The Souvenir on this podcast. No, I think we covered the ones that I was creating. You got one more, Amanda? Honor, Spit, and Burn. Yeah, good one. Yeah, The Souvenir. This is not the last time we'll talk about The Souvenir on this podcast. No, I finally read that story, too, and I couldn't believe that she was cast in Rebecca Mead's story in The New Yorker.

I couldn't believe that she was cast two weeks before they started filming. Yeah. In an effort to kind of capture, I don't know, a kind of like innocence and insouciance, I guess. I couldn't really figure out. I got the strategy that she was going for, but it's kind of amazing that she's so good and she didn't really prepare to do this. It is part of what makes the performance amazing

is that there is no performance. And that movie is astonishing because it just captures a mood and a time in life and feelings like really in a raw, natural way. And so it makes sense for her being a first time actress. If she had the preparation, you might overthink it. But I thought it was mesmerizing. What about supporting performances?

Can you guys think of any that you love this year? Would you like me to suggest one? Yes. I thought Jamie Bell was great in rocket man he was i think it was it's kind of it's another movie that is kind of quickly lost to time remember how long we talked about bohemian rhapsody i felt like that was nine consecutive months of bohemian rhapsody conversation obviously it's rocket man has been paired with bohemian rhapsody for obvious reasons but rotten rocket man just doesn't come up i went to a dodgers game yesterday and it was

quote-unquote rocket man night, which didn't mean anything. There was no representation of Rocketman other than it showing up on the screen. They didn't give out free things? Did you go late? Neither. Was there like little pianos instead of bobbleheads? No. Sometimes they give stuff out, but only at certain gates, which is unfair.

If there was any giveaway, I did not receive one. I was sitting in fairly modest seats. I'm just thinking about the—Chris laughing at me but I'm thinking about the cool Rocket Man swag that Sean could have given to me I'm just imagining your next door post about like I did not get my

Corey Seeger bobblehead because I went into gate 6 I did get my Corey Seeger bobblehead and I gave it to a little kid because that was nice but they weren't giving them out everywhere that's how I know well the LA Dodgers

did not give me anything related to Rocket Man but I am giving Rocket Man some love for Jamie Bell hey can I just say that it does seem like but they weren't giving them out everywhere. That's how I know. Well, the LA Dodgers did not give me anything related to Rocketman, but I am giving Rocketman some love for Jamie Bell. Hey, can I just say that it does seem like there are now two movie years, which I'm sure that you guys have talked about before, but it does seem like if you put something out in the summer, it's just like 99% guarantee

that people just aren't going to talk about it because of all the superhero movies and reboots and cartoons. Yeah, I wonder. It's like so much of the stuff, and we'll talk about this later, where I'm like, ah, good movie. Interesting. Wonder why we didn't talk about that one or why we only talked about how it didn't do

well. And it's like, all that stuff is gone now. I think, is counter-programming dead is an interesting question because it might be. We might not really have that anymore. Last call for. I have two more. Yeah, go ahead. From the same movie, Diana Lin and Zhao Shizhen from have two more. Yeah, go ahead. From the same movie.

Diana Lin and Zao Shizhen from The Farewell. Yeah, they were great. The parents. No, the... At least I believe... I'm sorry if I got

the names wrong. I'm trying to isolate the mother and the grandmother. Oh, yes. Okay, yes. Yeah. I also...

I'd shout out Baikali Ganambar from The Nightingale. You know, I haven't seen it. Yeah, it's pretty brutal. It's like honestly like a really tough hang, but he's incredible in it. Wesley was raving about that last week as well. Any other supporting performances you want to shout out?

Anybody from Men in Black International that you thought really distinguished themselves? You know what? I think Chris Hemsworth is charming on screen, but that was not his most charming and that was not supporting. Are we counting Endgame in our summer movies? I think we should. I think it's kind of where it starts, right? I have an Endgame scene in the next category. Okay, great. Favorite scene. I'll share my first one, which was just the out of time montage in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, which is my favorite part of that movie now, right? When the sun goes down and Cliff goes to pick up Leo from a day's work and they're driving along and we see LA changing in

real time. We see their lives changing in real time. Amanda, what do you got? I have Brad Pitt on the roof. What about? What about it? What did you respond to? In addition to the physical attributes of Brad Pitt, that just really feels like the lightning bottle moment for what Brad Pitt's season. I was having a conversation with Kaia McMullen last week and for a different podcast, we were preparing awards and she wanted to put Brad Pitt in best comeback

and I was furious at her because he never went anywhere in my mind, but there is this energy coalescing around Brad Pitt and it has something to do with the fact that he looks great shirtless, but it feels like that's where it starts. And also, I enjoyed looking at it. Chris, what about you? Did you enjoy gazing upon Brad Pitt's 12-pack? Of course, man. I loved watching him do old school handiwork. What about his parkour leap to the top of the roof?

That was good. I mean, I read a read a couple of there was a bunch of interviews with gosh, parkour experts? No, who's the, who's Zoe Bell? And she was, you know, they were talking a lot about like, what could he do that only he could do to get up to the roof and stuff. So that was pretty neat. My favorite sequence, this is a weird fave. I wouldn't

say it made me feel good. It was the opposite, but just in terms of filmmaking expertise, would be the cold open opening sequence of Midsommar me feel good. It was the opposite. But just in terms of filmmaking expertise, it would be the cold opening sequence of Midsommar. Very good. Very upsetting. Like as punishing as it gets. I'll never watch it.

I'm honestly waiting until Midsommar comes out on DVD or DVR or whatever. VOD? VOD. That's the abbreviation I was looking for. Yeah, whatever. So that I can just fast forward through it and watch the rest of it. It's all kind of traumatizing. So you may be holding the fast forward button down.

But it's like, as the way that you two described it, there's just like the real life traumatizing and then the funny stylized traumatizing. That's true. That's fair. Yeah. So I think if you skip the first 25 minutes and just took our word for it, you'd be fine. Okay. I took a trip back to my adolescence at the movies this summer. Mal, Ruben, and I saw Endgame on the Disney lot.

And you can imagine the kind of people that get invited to that screening of Avengers Endgame. And they were very raucous and they were very enthusiastic and they were very emotional. And the sequence in Endgame when there's a fight sequence between Thanos, Captain America, and Thor and Iron Man. Iron Man gets his ass kicked. Thor gets his ass kicked. Cap is kind of the last guy standing. And we see a hammer move. And then the hammer finds its way to Captain America's hands.

I was like, I'm 11 years old. This is the coolest thing I've ever seen. The people in the movie theater were screaming. Not just like, oh shit, like, whoa, like that long. They could not control themselves. There were people who had been waiting their whole lives to see something like that. Now, did that color my reaction? And if I were alone in in my house watching it on my phone would I've had the same sincerely emotional reaction no but circumstances are meaningful and how we see movies is meaningful right yes Amanda you did not have the same reaction to the scene I take it

so as you were starting to describe it literally what I thought in my head was like is that when they're all in like the purple scene I don't know what that means you know it's just like everything's like really muddy and they're in the cgi space and it's like it's right before that yes but when once they're in that other world that like i just kind of didn't know what was happening i think i remember the hammer and i don't think i saw it with chris i don't think i had to turn to you and be like what does that mean I think contextually I was able to figure it out. It was understood. Yeah. I wouldn't say that it stayed with me or that I know a lot of the mythological associations. No one can pick up the hammer except for Thor.

Oh, I texted you afterwards. That's what it was, Chris. I texted you and I was like, what was the deal with the hammer? Oh, yeah, because it's like, is he worthy? Yeah. He was worthy. But I knew he was worthy. He's really hot.

That would be funny if he wasn't worthy and Thanos won and that was how the MCU ended. I don't have a comment. The hammer happens! Fucking heartbreaking! PTA, come on, the big picture. Any other scenes, Chris? No, my Midsommar one

is pretty high up there. I would say... Yeah, then... I mean, not to put too fine a point on it, but say, yeah, then, I mean, not to put too fine a point on it, but like, yeah, the out of time montage

on Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. I agree with you. It's like, you just really feel like you're leaving your body when that happens. You've raised your hand, but we're on a podcast, Amanda.

I know, but I always raise my hand. Maya Erskine dancing at the wedding at the beginning of Plus One is, it's really the only scene where I literally watch it at home and I rewound it and watch it again,

which is not something I do for anything. And it's tremendous. I really felt like it spoke to me spiritually. And then Charlize Theron doing a terrorist negotiation on Molly in Longshot. I thought that was great too. That actually is a good segue right into the Why Didn't This Work award. Because speaking of seeing a movie in a raucous theater sean and i saw longshot at south by southwest and it was like it was it was hysterical

like people were crying with laughter then the cast of longshot walked out and did like a victory lap and boys to men played and it was like this is going to be a blockbuster this is going to be a blockbuster. This is going to be a big hit. That's what I said. And it wasn't. Nobody cared at all. Why did that happen? Theoretically, I think I know a lot about this stuff. That one in particular, I'm like, what happened here? Okay, so here's the argument. It's that it's like two or three movies at once.

Nobody wants to see anything political. Yeah. And also, nobody bought Seth Rogen and Charlize Theron. Those are my counters. When has that stopped Seth Rogen before? Yeah, I don't think people are thinking that deeply about it. It came out a week after Endgame and stars two people over the age of 35. So no one wants to go to the movies to see it.

I think it's as simple as that. I'm sure there are a lot of people who have since like bought it on demand and had a nice time. That's the other thing. It's you don't have to go to theater to see it. You can watch it at home and it's a very fun time. The question is whether or not people will still make movies like that if nobody goes to see them in the theaters. Right. And if they do only make them for Netflix or Apple or whatever, what changes about them? They don't spend as much money on them. They don't spend as much time on the script. They're not as funny. They're not as memorable. So that's optimistic.

Well, we've been talking a lot about it. No, I'm serious. It's a very bad thing. And watching Long Shot, kind of even regardless of the, whoa, this is going to be a big hit quality, as I was watching it, I was like, this is a good old-fashioned Hollywood comedy. I love a good old-fashioned Hollywood comedy. If done well, if the writing is good,

if the performances are fun, it didn't matter. Are we unanimous on that? I'm mostly worried that it's actually an elevator pitch issue too, whereas there's so many movies now where you can just be like, they've remade this. This is the sequel to that. But this is like, okay, so he's a journalist, and she's

a politician, but they knew each other from high school, and then they bump into each other again when they're adults, and he's down on his luck, and she's ascendant, but then they hook up, and it's just fucking amazing, and then they like, but they knew each other from high school. And then they like, they bump into each other again when they're adults and he's down on his luck and she's ascended. And then they like hook up and it's just fucking amazing. And they're like, and you're like, what does that,

what does that mean? What is it? Is it a remake of broadcast news? Like, like they, people want like the easy package for it. And I'm not trying to be like in 2019, we've somehow broken it,

but like, it does seem like the simple act of trying to explain an original piece of content to someone is more trouble than it's worth now i have an example or an answer to this it's kind of the counter to that which is a movie with a great elevator premise pitch that did not work at all which is yesterday sure and that was one where like there was so much talk about it both on the ringer and like in the world uh people knew what it was you could understand about it, both on The Ringer and like in the world. People knew what it was.

You could understand it. It's like, what if the Beatles didn't exist? And then that's a large group of people across ages and demographics were like, oh, huh, maybe I'll go see that. I think that was just an expectations game, though, because it had such a. Are you saying that it did well or did not do well relative to that expectation? I mean, it did OK. Yeah, it did pretty well in the in well relative to that expectation? I mean, it did okay. Yeah, it did pretty well in the context of a movie like Longshot. You know, it made like $70, $80 million and like more than $100 million overseas, which is not incredible. But given that we do feel like, as I said earlier, we've been choked out by Endgame and Shazam and all this other stuff this summer.

That's not bad. And it probably didn't cost a ton of money to make that movie. So, I don't... Whether, like, the elevator pitch movie is dead is kind of hard to say. That was one that I think we both felt like, this is a $150 million movie. It's going to be a fucking sensation. And it wasn't that. But Longshot made, like, $14 million.. It's going to be a fucking sensation. And it wasn't that. But Longshot made like $14 million.

Like a very, very small number. Maybe less than Booksmart, which is just crazy to think about. But it did. But it almost would have helped Longshot more if people were like, nobody wants to see Longshot because of Trump. Like if there was like some sort of like,

if Trump had been like, this is a bullshit movie. That didn't work for First Man, though. I mean, you know, I think you were right the first time around, which is that it got there's something toxic about anything that is political. And people don't want the politics in their comedy right now. So to me, it's just a distribution issue. People don't want to go see romantic comedies in the theater, especially when they have like a ton of them on Netflix all the time. And they're not as good, but people don't really care. And I think also distribution and timing,

because it really did come out a week after Avengers. We're running low on time, so we got to bang through some of our categories here. Worst reboot. We had so many contenders for this award. Quick thoughts? Do you count sequels in here or just simply reboots? Ish. I mean, I just simply reboots? Ish. I mean, I think that reboots were kind of redefined this year because of things like

The Lion King and Aladdin where it was like, is that a reboot? Is it just a remake? Is there going to be an Aladdin 2 now? I think that all of that falls under the same.

I don't think Toy Story 4 is a reboot. Sure, okay. I wrote down Men in Black International which is just one of the bigger what the fucks of the year. I have one of those.

Is Hobbs & Shaw eligible for this? Sort of. It certainly starts us off on an expanded Fast & Furious universe, which we had not had before. So I think it probably qualifies. The Hustle? That is a reboot of the... What is the name of the original?

Dirty Rotten Scoundrels. I think The Hustle is more successful than Hobbs & Shaw, personally. Of the, what is the name of the original? Dirty Rotten Scoundrels. Wow. I think The Hustle is more successful than Hobbs & Shaw, personally. As a film? As a film, not as a, obviously, box office-wise. I still haven't seen The Hustle, so I can't speak to it. I also wrote down Shaft. Why was there another Shaft movie?

I saw that movie in Europe because the rights to it were owned by Netflix. So it was just on Netflix when I got to Europe this summer, even though it came out in July. Can we just say a special shout out to Dark Phoenix? Yeah. I mean, that might be the worst movie this summer. That was truly confounding to you and I watching that movie. And also the complete opposite experience movie watching than you had

from Avengers, which is getting a fire alarm in the last 45 seconds of the movie and having to wait 20 minutes to see 15 seconds of X-Men footage to wait 20 minutes to see 15 seconds of X-Men footage. That was a tough beat. Yeah. That was not an ideal experience for Chris and I. I imagine you'll never see Dark Phoenix, Amanda. No. Okay. Congratulations to you. Best reboot. I've come around on Pokemon Detective Pikachu. I'm putting that out there. It's amazing what a little bit of time, distance, and a very poor summer can do for the way that we imagine these

movies. Now, was Pokemon detective Pikachu good? I don't know. I don't know. Is anything good anymore? Don't get too down on it. Captain America caught a hammer. That was good. Yeah.

I enjoyed that. Aside from that, everything is just sort of fine. I had the lion King for this. No, I can't abide that. Okay. I wasn't able to answer this question.

Best sequel. You just added this in. I don't know. Avengers. It was Avengers. What about John Wick three? It was pretty good. Hmm. Yeah. Some descent too long. best sequel you just added this in avengers it was avengers what about john wick three it was pretty good yeah some descent too long uh i i'm not interested in the john wick story wow i liked the commercials for the secret life of pets too

that's how i know we're scraping the bottom of the barrel i wrote down best surprise as an opportunity to talk about loose i think i I feel like Amanda wants to uncork on loose right now. I don't have to do it right now. I know that we're perhaps it should be a, you know, maybe it actually shouldn't be a different conversation. It didn't work for me. I didn't even like it. I just kind of felt like it failed to do the things that it was trying to do. Provoke.

It didn't even really provoke me because the questions that it raised were not even unresolved. They just didn't, they didn't establish the main character. They dropped in a lot of hot button issues that they just didn't develop. I, you know, I'm not a parent, so I don't need like the parenting newsletter from the New York times in film

form, which this felt in a lot of ways. It's true. I, and so, but I just, I didn't feel... It's a good, like on the poster, I'm not a parent, Amanda Dobbins, the ringer. Good pull quote.

It felt not even half-baked, but it didn't bring together enough of the threads to really provoke me. I think Chris and I disagree. Okay. We've briefly chatted about this. It's the sort of movie that is never going to get a wide release, so it's kind of hard to be like,

what we're going to do is a deep dive podcast on a movie that's made $1.3 million. Yeah, I also barely read anything about it. It was just like a kind of random Saturday, decided to go to the movies. That was like the best reviewed thing that was there that I actually wanted to see, and I was like, holy shit thing that was there that I actually wanted to see and it was just I was like

holy shit that was like genuinely surprising and interesting and you had a kind of opposite experience where we were like you should see this

it's quite interesting check it out and that's tricky I've seen both reactions I've seen some people say this is totally phony bullshit like you know

over managed playwriting set with a movie I like over managed playwriting I do too I think that's probably part of why I responded to it. I think it might have worked better as a play, obviously. And then I think, I know that it was originally a play. Yes.

I thought most of the performances were great. I thought that the center performance of the loose character didn't work. And that was a major problem in it. I suppose it's interesting, except I think, think honestly I didn't find it interesting I found it a little like intellectually stunted let's skip ahead a little bit I don't think we need to

horror movie of the season it's got to be Midsommar yeah I would just I wrote that down as well and I haven't seen it head count I would also toss out if people are looking for

an iTunes horror movie to watch I think I mentioned that before yeah I wrote down The Dead Don't Die 2 which I feel like also just kind of came and went, but it was like a very fun movie.

Not a traditional horror movie, but if you like the Jarmusch tone, go there. What the fuck movie of the season? Did you guys see Godzilla King of the Monsters? You know what? I have to be completely candid with you. I did not. And I was like the KOM meme lord for like two months.

I was like, I'm fucking the king of monsters. When that movie comes out, I'll be walking around with a Godzilla mask. Charles Dance is up in this. Kyle Chandler. I can't wait. And something, I don't know when it came out, but like something basketball related probably happened. And I was like, I'll see it next week. I'll see it next week. And I was

like, and I cannot, seeing Godzilla king of monsters on like my laptop seems idiotic. I'm sure I will see it one day, but it's just one of those things where no one came to me and said, you have got to see this movie. Yeah, the same thing. Sean will usually go and send out an indicator of, yeah, you should see it or you can totally skip it. And this was just straight skip from you. And so I didn't go.

I don't think I had a single conversation about this movie, period. I don't know anybody who saw it. It's a Godzilla movie that features like five monsters. And they've already got another Godzilla movie planned, right? Yeah, it's Godzilla vs. King Kong, which is I think coming next summer by Adam Wingard, your boy.

So just very strange for a major studio to release an IP thing like this. The previous two films in the series did really well, King Kong, Skull Island and Godzilla. And people were like,

eh, I'm good. I'm all set. Millie Bobby Brown, who cares? Charles Dance, fuck it. Vera Farmiga, I'm good. Kyle Chandler, no. This is really random.

Well, you said Millie Bobby Brown and I was thinking about, I was looking on Instagram this weekend and my friend hit Instagram like a line, like a supreme drop in Soho this weekend just to see Millie Bobby Brown. And that's what it was.

But it's like people don't need to go to the movies to see Millie Bobby Brown. You're right. They can just do that. Best indie. Got a pretty good feeling. I know where you're going, Amanda. Souvenir. I thought you would say Farewell.

No. I mean, I really liked the Farewell. I just assumed that the souvenir counts for summer since it was after The Avengers. And that was also a surprise in a great way. I just went to this movie, even though Sean had said, like, I think this is going to be a Manda movie and a couple other people had indicated that. I've thought about it so much in terms of discovering a filmmaker, like an actor, just a mood, transcendent. What was a big mood for you, Chris? Sword of Trust. Oh, you like that? I love that movie.

And it was just kind of, you know, it's a Lynn Shelton movie starring Marc Maron. Marc Maron, who I never would have called this eight years ago, is like one of the most reliably interesting

character actors alive right now. Pretty good actor, yeah. And it's just like pretty small movie. It's Gillian Bell, Michaela Watkins, Marc Maron. It kind of feels a little bit like a 70s movie that you would sort of catch on Turner Classic or something like that, like Straight Time or something. But it's amazing that they made a movie like that

because this should be like a Sundance or IFC channel or something like show probably. But they just, it's a great little movie about weird people living in the South. I like that one a lot. I also wrote down The Art of Self-Defense, Riley Stern's, I don't know, hand-to-hand combat psychodrama starring Jesse Eisenberg.

Very strange film. I watched that movie in a kitchen of an Airbnb at South by Southwest. Not the ideal place to see it. Still very effective even in that setting. Best movie of the summer. Are we unanimous? I think so. Yes. Let's not overthink it. King of the Monsters? No. Pikachu? No. No. Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. Yes. Anything you want to say about this movie right now that we haven't already said 300 times? You know, I think everything I've said about it in public, including working through the discourse and some of the conflict, all of that stands. I saw that movie twice in theaters and had a great time and still think about it. And you just can't say that for literally

anything else on this list. There are movies I still think about. What about Cap with the Hammer? There's movies we like. I think about certain aspects of Cap in that movie from time to time, quite frankly. Joe Biden Cap? In terms of just a movie theater experience, an event, which is kind of what we think of when we think of summer movies right is that it's something that you anticipate and a lot of people see it's kind of a blockbuster and it's really the only thing that comes close this summer chris yeah i've been thinking a lot about what you know like just throughout this conversation like what what happened to uh that counter-programming idea i'm trying to like

ascribe you know like was there a thrones drought like was that because of thrones taking up six sundays or whatever did we lose a day of a weekend for a bunch of movies that may have like people might have been like i guess i'll go see thrones or i guess i'll go see long shot because even but they're like now i'm staying home i'm gonna watch thrones gonna have some people come over gonna grill or whatever. I don't know. I can't figure it out. I mean, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood is like a tier of one to me.

I agree. And two is pretty far down. Pretty much the same for me. I've been weirdly satisfied, pleased, calmed by the fact that it's been a big hit. And I don't know why that is. Maybe it's more of a like last of a don't know why that is. Maybe it's more of a like last of a dying breed kind of a thing, but a lot of people have seen it. Its controversy was inevitable. And I think it's ultimately been good for the movie. Sometimes that kind of

controversy can be very bad for a movie. I think it's driven a lot more interest in the movie. It's kind of a reason to provoke and to kind of play with the the strictures of history and pop culture arcana um but i agree ultimately with what you're saying amanda which is just like it's just fun to be around that movie for an extended period of time which is really all you want out of a summer movie right you're just like chill me out make me laugh make me smile make me cry and then we can worry about awards when we get into the fall right yeah i Yeah, I was looking at the 2009 summer movies just to see what, because also that was the summer of Inglourious Bastards, but also what it had that this summer didn't have.

And even the movies that I don't think about much or love, like Funny People or 500 Days of Summer or a Harry Potter movie, it just seems like a completely different era. You're not going to get movies like that typically in summers to come. Parting thoughts? I think it was just a really bad year for the movie, which is, I think Once Upon a Time in Hollywood succeeds on its own terms. And at some points, it's just like a buddy movie.

It's a great hang. That is the lasting appeal of it to me. But beyond that, I really did like The Farewell. Beyond that, I just think it was a very, very bad movie. I got an email from my dad yesterday. I convinced him to finally go see Once Upon a Time in Hollywood in theaters because he just doesn't go to the movies anymore. He used to go like three times a week, and now he watches everything at home.

And he was like, I liked it. I mostly liked it because there's nothing else to see. I think that's kind of it. Can I do a little bit of watch big pick crossover? Sure. Did you guys prefer the three or four favorite movies from the last few months versus Fleabag, Succession, Chernobyl, and take your pick of another show. Mindhunter. I'm really in the middle of Mindhunter and loving it. I'm just having a spiritual experience with the first five episodes of Mindhunter. It's a very, very good question. Once Upon a Time in Hollywood is superior, in my opinion, to all of those things. Now, there's a lot of reasons for that. There's a lot of money behind Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. There's a lot of star power. There's a genius filmmaker.

But that experience to me still transcends even Fleabag, which I think all three of us have talked about ad nauseum and just were over the moon for and thought was totally singular and great. I still would always, always, always rather have one great movie than an experience like that. But that's me. And that's why this is the big picture and not the watch. No, I know. I was more just, and I think even the way that we talk about those things is completely different. Fleabag people are watching in their own kind of like, oh, I finally checked out Fleabag. Good move. That's really cool. Versus like, man, people are really trying to get to Once Upon a Time in Hollywood that first 10 days, first six days, so that they can talk to their friends about it. And it's just such a different experience. But you're sort of projecting out 900 days into

the future of will Black Panther air on a screen or not? It's like, I kind of wonder whether a lot of that stuff is going to start to be grouped together. I think so. I think we're probably the only people who worry about the experience of a movie versus a TV at this point. Last generation. I think so. Yeah. I think everyone else is just like, I enjoyed watching this thing. And I watched it in the way that was easiest and best for me to do so and didn't feel a lot of anxiety about it.

And I, you know, it was interesting, that question. I loved Fleabag. I think Succession is the best thing on TV right now. I just watched the Boars on the Floor episode. And that was that moment of just being like, oh, my God, I am watching something. I can't believe this is happening. I still feel that I get that more at the movies than I do at television. I think that's honestly a numbers game.

It's because people still spend more time and money on movies. Two years making two hours of movies. Yeah. And you can get a higher level of results when you put that much investment into it. And that's what I'm looking for. But I can't honestly say that I saw anything at the movies this year that was, like, better than Fleabag season two. It was tremendous. Guys, I enjoyed recounting this very painful summer and the few bright spots we had.

Thank you for doing this. Thanks to Chris and Amanda. Now let's go to my conversation with Britney Runs a Marathon writer-director Paul Downs-Calezzo. I'm delighted to be joined by Paul Downs-Calezzo. Paul, thanks for being here. Thanks for having me. Paul, you come from the world of theater. You're a writer. You've worked in television. Why is Britney Runs a Marathon your first film? Well, because I wrote it first. Okay, that's good to know. This is the first time you tried to write a film. Yeah, that's right. I mean, I wrote it, I think I had the idea for it

in either 2011 or 2012. I'm pretty sure it was 2011. And it just felt like this story, you know, it's inspired by my best friend and my roommate at the time. And it just instantly felt like it should be a movie because of the scope of it and also because of the intimacy of it. Because sort of what you're dealing with is New York City and a woman's journey across that city as she sort of conquers herself. And then also, you know, in the movie that our protagonist is the antagonist and you have to see all of that tension in her eyes. So that just felt like when you're trying to figure out what medium the story belonged in, it has this huge arc, which, you know, is great for movies. And there's an inner demon to conquer, which is, you know, great for that journey. And also just getting as close as you can to the actress's, you know, inner tension for the dramatic effect.

So, you know, you and Brittany in real life are very close friends. How does, who made the decision? You said, I want to do something about this journey that you've had. Oh, if only I were that respectful. Started writing first, I take it. Yeah, we were having a lot of conversations about life and fulfillment and happiness. You know, I think it was 25 or 26. And it was sort of, I think it's sort of standard for people in their 20s to be like, hey, wait a sec.

My life's a mess. You know, how do we fix that? That is true. Yeah. And so we were having those conversations. And out of one of those conversations, very early on when I moved in, she went for her first run. And I thought this is a movie. And I started writing it.

I started outlining the film. And then. Is this before really, really? Like, is this before all the other things that you did to come? Yes. At the time, I think I was working on, as an associate on Sister Act on Broadway. And it was before any of my plays had been produced. Wow. So it really is like, well, you know... Early. Yes, early. And so a few months into working on it, I said to her, I don't know if I should tell you this, but I'm writing a movie about you. And she said, what's it called?

And I said, it's called Brittany Runs a Marathon. And she said, how fast is she running in? And then I told her some things that happened in the movie and her life started to mimic the outline. So that was scary and weird and I felt very powerful. So meaning you were taking some aspects of her life as a jumping off point. Yeah. None of the scenes in the movie are recreations of anything that's happened in real life. Got it. But, you know, Brittany and I both, Brittany, real Brittany, and I both used humor to deflect as a lot of people do. We also just love finding the jokes in little moments and

found that that could, I found that that could be a way to thwart a vulnerability. And so there's some DNA that's shared between the two characters and, you know, the inspiration came from my friend's desire to undergo this huge life change and, you know, face, face, uh, face herself. And, uh, and so there are, she's sprinkled throughout it, but it's not her. Okay, interesting. And so at some point, was she like, do you have to buy my life rights?

Like, what happened? No, I mean, you know, that's the other thing is because I was, we were so young and nothing had been produced. It's sort of a pipe dream when you're sitting on a couch that, you know, we stole a couch from a Broadway show after it closed and that was our couch. And, you know, you never think that this stuff will actually get made or actually get produced. So it's just sort of fun at that point. Like, you know, uh, you're making, I'm

making a project that I really care about and I love and I'm making it for me. And, you know, it's, I want her to see her journey reflected back to her in some way. And, you know, she and I have this beautiful cyclically inspirational relationship. relationship. And it was just sort of fun to feed into that, but it never got weird. We just kept looking at each other being like, well, I guess, you know, I guess I'm directing it now. I guess we're filming it now, you know, never thinking that we'd be where we are with it now. So this is seven, eight, nine years in the process. Where we are now? Yeah. If it's 2011, yeah. Eight years. So, you know, you've done a lot of things, like I mentioned in the in-between time, was your aspiration always to be a filmmaker? Was that the first thing you were

going to do? No. I mean, no. Okay. So where did you start? What was the perception of what your career was going to be when you're 25 living with Brittany and talking about deflecting? Playwright. Yeah. I mean, I was focused on being a playwright at that point and that was sort of coming out of college figuring out what I wanted to do I worked in a bunch of different capacities and dramatic stuff and I edited sizzle reels for money out of college you know but it's hard to make a living as a playwright yeah and even when you are doing well as a playwright it's hard to make a living as a playwright and that's something even when you are doing well as a playwright, it's hard to make a living as a playwright. And that's something I didn't ever look up was how much money a playwright makes.

And then you sort of get your check and you're like, I thought this was a big deal. But it really wasn't until, you know, the only reason I directed this film was because I wanted to protect the script. I believed in the script and I'd been involved in enough projects where I saw that if, you know, a director, a director can really elevate something. And also they can miss the mark sometimes if it's a character journey,

and they're not quite on the same emotional page as one of the characters or a couple of the characters. And I didn't want this character journey to get lost. I didn't want it to get lost in translation. So I wanted to, in wanting to protect this journey of this woman with sort of subject matter that could be done in a really offensive way and in a broad way, I wanted to make sure that the tone was still fun and funny and entertaining, but also we were being respectful and nuanced and sort of digging in with pain, digging into the pain and looking at the character that we were, you know, bringing to life. So it was only from there that I called and I said, can I direct this movie? And they said,

no, which was smart and right of them because I'd never directed anything. And at that point, I thought, well, screw it. Can we curse on this thing? Yes. Curse away. Screw it. And I put together a lookbook and story uh, um, storyboards and I flew out to LA and I did a whole pitch about why I wanted to do it. And they said, yes. And then from there on out, I just started sort of like cramming, like, like I hadn't been to class all year and I was about to take the final exam. And I just started watching as many movies as I could and reading as much as I could, especially from directors who went from theater to film. So who are your North stars here?

Well, like Mike Nichols did that, Elie Kazan, Elaine May, you know, works as a director, as a writer. And, you know, I could feel that. David Mamet, same thing. I started looking at sort of their books on how they transitioned from what they knew as theater artists to becoming filmmakers. And it was really illuminating to see the difference in how they speak about movies and how people who are more visual filmmakers speak about making movies. And it's about character. It really

all becomes about character. So for me, what I had to end up doing for all the technical aspects of filmmaking that I didn't have any experience with was to translate that into a language that I understood. And the way that I did that was it was all character. So I made the character of, you know, I made pages on the character of the lighting, character of the camera movements, the costume design, sort of what the arc was of all of those things. Had you been significantly interested in those things before you decided to direct this movie? Had I been significantly interested? No. I mean, and now I am. And I was late to liking movies. I didn't really like movies until my early 20s.

Really? Yeah. I have ADD, and I always thought they were really predictable, and I was never really interested in the moment-to-moment of it. I just was sort of thinking about, is this efficient? Is this an efficient use of my time? It's like, you know, he's going to kill the dragon.

I'm done, you know? Sure. But honestly, it was after I fell in love for the first time and came out of the closet and started sort of understanding vulnerability and love and romanticism that I started to like movies. And that sort of influenced how I look at things now. At the risk of getting ahead of myself, do you think this is what you're going to be doing now for most of your professional career? I'm going to go where the fire takes me.

I'm going to go wherever the inspiration leads me. But I loved every second of it. I loved every minute of waking up and doing this job. So you mentioned that you had to convince people to let you direct the movie. Who were you convincing? Financiers who have bought the script? No, it was really Tobey Maguire and Matt Pluff at Material. The way this film came to be is Tobey came to see my play in New York, Really, Really. We had a couple of generals and ultimately he said, what do you want to do? We'll do it. And I said, I have this movie about my friend who gets her shit together training for the New York City Marathon.

And he said, okay, we'll do that. So they bought it off that log line. And I developed the script with them for two and a half years. And then. Wait, hold on. What does it mean to develop a script for two and a half years? Well, it means you turn in a script and then you get notes and you turn it in again and you sort of wait and then they're out to directors, you know, and you're like, who? And they're like, none of your business. But they

were never like that. You know, they were collaborative and transparent. How are you feeling through that long process where this thing that is very close to you is being evaluated and trimmed and added to and going through stages? Well, you know, all of those stages involved my pen, which was great. And, you know, I was very nervous. You're clutching a pen right now. Yeah, weird. Like I'm like, yeah, I was.

Is that my pen or is that your pen? I have no idea. That's my brand of pen. That's the pen I use. So I'm taking it. But yeah, I was, I did know the horror stories. And my agent had told me, sometimes writers don't get invited to the premiere in the end. And it was so different coming from theater and from playwriting and from working on my own pilots for TV and shooting those because you sort of—

Because the writer is king? Yeah, you're in charge and your vision is important and people care what you have to say and your words matter. And in theater, the word is literally God. So that's, what's driving the choices. So the idea that I was creating something that was so vulnerable and so intimate and about somebody I loved and I want, I really hoped was going to be treated a certain way. I was scared. I was, you know, hopeful and scared. Um, and then, you know, and then I just, I needed to be a part of the whole process. Okay. So after two and a half years, ultimately you convinced them that you are the right person to do this. Yeah. What's the first thing that happens after that? Uh, I had to call an Uber.

I'm remembering I was walking down the street. Yeah. Recreated. Yeah. I had to call an Uber. I'm remembering. I was walking down the street. Yeah, recreate it. Yeah, I had to call an Uber and I had to get lunch. No, immediately I started, I flew back to New York and I started looking at the script again, but with the director's eye. And that's something that is, has been so valuable to me now in looking at projects in general, I find that writing and directing are separate experiences and you should treat each process differently and separately. And so looking at it with a director's eye, I suddenly had criticism about my own writing that I wasn't able to see when I had the writer's hat on. Things like, you know, scenes that are overwritten or things that could be more visual. When I was writing them, I felt like, you know, I'm going to die on this mountain. I need to protect these words. And as soon as it became like I was looking at almost somebody else's script, it was so much easier to sort of put red X's through things and rewrite stuff. Yeah.

And, you know, at that point,'re looking for flow and, and sort of emotionality and that, and, and visual poetry. And I was looking for opportunities for that in the script. So it was almost like firing myself as the writer and hiring myself to do the rewrite. So I'll be honest, I was completely taken aback by the movie. And in fact, it was just because I had the wrong expectations for the movie. Well, that's the intention. I got that impression, but I wanted to ask you about if subverting was the point. Because you see Jillian Bell, you see a very zippy trailer, you see Michaela Watkins, Lil Rel. A full sentence as a title. Yes, exactly. And you expect a certain kind of comedy. Maybe not a studio comedy, but a kind of a zippy Indian comedy. And that's not

what the movie is. That's right. It's comedy. And that's not what the movie is. That's right. It's funny, but that's not what the movie is. Right. I mean, the idea is, you know, in the unity of it, doing with Jillian and doing with the character of Brittany and doing with all of the supporting actors and doing with the movie itself the same thing, which is you take something you think you understand, which has promised to be fun and funny and engaging and enjoyable and unthreatening.

And you slowly and with detail and precision expose deeper levels as it goes on. And so that's where the film starts. The film starts where you've seen this character. American comedies have played with this character. And that's the introduction of the film. And you're going to feel comfortable watching this movie. And as it goes on, the idea and the execution was about, um, making it, uh, more real and more human and giving, um, depth and dimensions to actors and characters and a story that is not often given the chance to breathe

with its full capacity. Did you literalize it to the producers, to the actors to say like, this is my approach to this project and this is the way it's fully conceived that you're going to think it's one thing and it's another thing. Yeah. I mean, I, I, I, that was part of my presentation in order to like secure myself that spot. And so I had that lookbook to show to actors as I was talking to them too. And the production heads too. It was very specifically like we are starting in one world and we're landing not in a totally different world, but in a world that feels complimentary and harmonious to the world we started in.

It just has more base notes. Yeah. And thinking about you saying mike nichols there there is a little bit of a stylistic approach there too i feel like a lot of his movies start one way with a certain tonality and then they make a shift and then all of a sudden you're in a different movie and you're like oh this is what this movie yeah i think i think movies and stories should evolve the same way a main character does it's a you're it's an experience and you want to have a relationship with the film itself. With the characters, yes.

With the actors even, yes. But really with the film itself so that you have left that theater the way that, you know, theater and New York theater works is you feel like you've had a conversation with the piece. And when you walk away, the memory is not, oh, that time I got lost in that, you know, crazy, fantastical story. The memory is, oh, that, that thing that touched me, that, that experience that I connected to. And that's what I'm interested in. I'm interested in psychology and in human behavior and communal experiences. And, you know, Thornton Wilder has this quote, I think, cause I've been saying all over town, he has this quote. I hope I'm right. He has this quote that's, film is the story of them, and theater is the story of us. And I have always more appreciated seeing the story of us. I've

always liked walking out of a theater feeling like I've learned about myself or my family or my world or my friends. And in this movie, I'm trying to do the story of us, but on film. How did Jillian become Brittany? like flippantly thinking, I wonder if that'll be Brittany someday. And then we're sitting in this restaurant and she was not at all like the characters that she plays. She's, you know, typically those characters are very funny. And Jillian's not funny. No, that's not true. Jillian's hilarious. But, you know, you get to see one side of her typically. And she, you know, we sat down and she had a real sort of rawness and a vulnerability in talking about the character. And we had the same goal, which was to protect the character.

We knew that stories like this can get turned and flattened the more it goes through the machine of bringing people on and making sure that you're having something digestible to an audience. And so she had a personal resonance with the story. And she had a real actor's eye for how this character needed to be played in a way that was surprising and really exciting. And largely, what ended up happening was I started to realize that this was a woman who had been playing supporting roles and was looked at as comic relief, who was looking to change the way that she saw herself and the way the world saw her. And that she was hoping to stretch herself

by pushing herself into something she'd never done before, which is literally the plot of the film. And I thought, well, that's a great match because we can do that in real time. And that's a recipe for really dynamic and exciting and raw and real performance and she is fantastic in the film and it was a privilege to work with her so did did she actually go through a similar transformation that the character goes through yeah so the character in the movie loses 40 pounds um i did not ask her to lose any weight for the role i thought as a guy director i'm already you know i need to tread lightly in the subject matter. She wanted to own the story as much as possible. And she took it upon herself to lose the exact amount of weight that the character loses.

So she lost 29 pounds while we were, before we started filming, and the last 11 pounds while we were filming. Wow. Yeah. How did that work? Was it the sort of thing that once she agreed to do it, you guys would discuss it? Would you strategize and plan? Be like, are you shooting in? No, I mean, no.

The idea was, I mean, we didn't talk about it that way. She had set that goal. I knew she had set that goal. I knew that we would have to recreate her own physical transformation in one way or another. And we did it with some prosthetics, some makeup, hair, body padding. Uh, and really it was about finding the gradient moves within each of the sort of tent pole looks so that we could make it as seamless as possible on our budget. Um, and wow. And we didn't shoot an order and she lost 11, last 11 pounds while we were filming and her prosthetic was made, you know, custom made and it stopped fitting.

So we had to find solutions to fix that as we were going on. Interesting. Yeah. That's, I mean, that's why I asked, cause there's a kind of practical element to doing something like this. And obviously there's so much Hollywood lore about actors who lose weight, gain weight, what that means for their performance. I assume that, that, that was a significant part of this as well. Well, I think, you know, she gives a very raw, vulnerable, compelling performance. And I think you can see in her performance, in the realness and what she's willing to expose of her actual self as a human,

her own journey in the character, which is really a gift. What about for you? What was the thing that was most surprising to you when you got on set, having never done this before? Every time I'm on set and I go to craft services, they always say to me, extras eat over there. Every single time. Three times in a row.

So that didn't surprise me. Okay. So you were not flexing your authority then? No. And I just sort of go over and have those eggs. But, no, I mean, what surprised me, not, you know, it was all sort of go, go, go. We had 28 days to film. I felt really excited about the cast.

We had to, whenever there was a problem, we just had to find a solution. So there was no time to sit down and sort of commiserate or feel anything. We knew we had to make this thing. So we lost power for a day and a half, and we didn't have a day and a half to lose. And Generator just decided it wasn't a generator anymore. It was going through its own crisis. So, yeah, I mean, really what was surprising, I don't know. Any answer I give you is going to be a spin that's going to sound, like, really positive, you know, when people do that.

And, like, I'm surprised by how good the world is, you know. My biggest weakness is that I work too hard. Yeah, is that I have so many strengths. But, like, you know, but ultimately, what I loved about it was that it was a group effort, and everyone was trying really hard to make this movie work. Everybody. What about the rest of the cast? It's a little bit of a comedy murderers row, but not necessarily operating like a bunch of comedians. Do you think that that is what

appealed to this group of actors that you put together? I would hope so. I mean, I think, you know, the idea of giving people, you know, we approached the movie like it was a drama. So we approached the script like it was a drama, but it was just a drama with people whose tactics are funny and relatable and whose minds are funny and relatable. So in looking at how, you know, Michaela Watkins plays Catherine, the woman upstairs who Brittany thinks has everything going for her. But the way that we approached all of her stuff while she had quirks and she naturally as a human is idiosyncratic in a way that i just eat up you know so we were able to like bring in her her own personality but also find the personality that is still and calm and motherly and assuring and graceful uh very cool subtle performance yeah she's just she really is great in it but i feel that way about the whole cast i don't know if it's because i'm just proud of everybody but it it does feel like what we set out to do was give these actors

and these characters more dimensions in a comedy than they normally have. And everyone knew that, and I would hope it's what drew them to it. But ultimately, they delivered, so they knew it was part of it. Your movie played at Sundance. That's where it premiered, and it was a big hit. I'm hoping you can kind of take me through the hype cycle a little bit. What is that experience like? I've never heard that hype cycle.

I like that. Here's what happened. I finished the movie the Tuesday before we premiered it. Wow. Right. And I actually made a change after Sundance, which was a text message. And it drove me crazy. And I was like, I'm never going to sleep if I don't fix the emoji in this text message.

But... That's how I know you're a director. Yeah. Like, I'm never going to sleep if I don't fix the emoji in this text message. That's how I know you're a director. Yeah. But we finished the movie, and then it was like, you're just sort of getting to Sundance. You're getting a coat. I also had had double ankle surgery like three weeks before and could barely walk. And the doctor said to me before I left his office, I said, I'm good to walk now, right? And he was like, just don't walk up any icy mountains. And I was like, tough shit, bro. It's happening. So, so we, uh, so when you get there, you're doing press instantly, you forget to eat,

the altitude's really high and you can't sleep for a number of reasons. And so, you know, I had this really, I was really worried about the temperature in the theater at the Eccles when we start, when, when we knew we were going to premiere, you know, I had this really, I was really worried about the temperature in the theater at the Eccles when we start, when we knew we were going to premiere, you know, they, in New York, it's like very common knowledge that if you have a comedy, it needs to be cold in there because people will laugh more if it's cold. And I, and the beginning of this film is all about the laughs. And I was like, it's too hot in here. And everyone was like, please go to the green room, you know? And, and they were, they, you know And they thought I was just nervous and whatever. And I was so – and they were right in a way. And I went and I was just like secretly opening all of these doors to the outside to make sure that cold air would pour into this theater.

And I, to this day, think that that helped. Helped the hype cycle. But you're just sort of getting ready to premiere the thing. And I was standing backstage with John Cooper before I went out, who was, you know, the head of Sundance. And he was like,

how do you feel? And I said, I think it's still too warm in there. And he goes, he said something really lovely and made a really, really sweet, reassuring comment about the film and, and what he felt was going to happen.

And then he went on stage and introduced me. And I went out and in like, I guess, cliche Sundance fashion, cried in my introduction speech, which I really wasn't expecting. That's nice though. It was lovely. And you know, there's all these people there. So then I sat and I watched the film and I knew it was going well in the first three minutes because we had to turn up the audio because people were laughing so loudly they couldn't hear the lines. Not to overpromise. It's not that funny.

But, you know, but I knew that the audience was engaging. And then when the credits came up, you're yanked up on stage for the Q&A. And I didn't realize or didn't think about the fact that people would be tweeting as soon as the credits started. And so I was walking from my chair to the ramp on the side and I passed the film's publicist and she goes, Twitter's good on my way up to the podium. And I was like, what is happening? So we did the Q&A. I walked off stage and a woman who I did not know when we went backstage grabbed me sobbing, sobbing, and just kept screaming, thank you over and over again.

And she was like, that girl is me. That girl is me. Thank you so much. I thought, okay, well, we've done something beautiful for her. Good outcome. Yeah. I hope we've done that for other people. And very quickly I started to get text messages that were like, you know, it's a, it's starting. Uh, and by that it means sort of the interest and you go, I mean, you, me, me, I don't know if this happens to everyone. You go to a house on a mountain and the buyers start coming in and they've got marketing materials of your movie already made. They have posters already made it in the hour and a half since it was done or two hours. And they have decks and, you know, they're, they're, it's really great. They're so enthusiastic. And, you know, you go through that

twice with each buyer, really. Hold on. So you've had some success in your career. You've won awards. Your, your plays have been very well received. So this isn't like the first great thing that's happened to you in your career, but is it significantly different than say working in the world of New York theater? Like, do you feel like I'm in another universe? I'm living on another planet? Yeah, I felt like I was in the 70s. Like I felt like I was in some movie situation in the 70s where people are sort of like, you know, in a booth at a bar talking about what they're going to, what move they're going to make. Yeah. I love your picture. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It felt,

it felt also like sort of what you hear about, you hear about those Sundance bidding wars in the middle of the night. And I, you know, at one point I just started laughing. I was just sort of like, what's going on? What are we talking about? And then it gets down to business, you know, and then it's time to start really figuring out what's the best home versus in tandem with the financial prospects. Well, what did you want? Because we're at this very complex moment in terms of theatrical releases, in terms of the way that indies perform. Like you're a very smart person. You obviously see the way that the playing field is operating right now. So were there things that you went into this process knowing you wanted? I wanted to be at Amazon. The reason I wanted to be at Amazon was because the big sick, because the way the big sick was handled, I thought the big sick was accessible

and I thought it was lovely. And I thought it was endearing. It was based on a true story. That was like a simple, personal, true story. And it had both a great theatrical life and it had, you know, accessibility in homes and on JetBlue flights across the country. That's true. Yeah. And I loved that. Love JetBlue. Yeah, I love them.

So they have flatbed seats sometimes. That's true. Well, they will for you now. Yeah. So I went in there wanting Amazon. But also, you know, a company is only the people that are there. And it was new people. And when Amazon came, they brought 14 people into the meeting.

One for each million? One for each million. They handed it to us like that. Like it was a graduation ceremony. And they all sort of talked about their personal relationship to the film and how much they loved it. And, you know, my mind wasn't made up. It was just sort of the dream scenario I was looking for. And, you know, that's where we ended up. And I'm really happy.

How are you feeling about putting a movie like this out in the world, given the state of theatrical releasing in America? Um, fine. I'm excited. I mean, I'm curious, uh, but ultimately I made something that, you know, as an artist, things can go so many ways and you have to make little sacrifices. Sometimes you can't win them all, but I've learned that the goal for me at least is to make a piece of art that I can stand behind, that I'm proud of, and I can stand behind no matter what happens. And I've made that, and I feel really good about that. So you started writing this film in 2011. I think you started filming in 2017, right? Yeah, 2017. So it's been a long process. Have you been working on other stuff during this? Do you have a sense of where you're going? Yeah, yes, but I've never, I haven't been able to give anything sort of the full attention it

deserves, uh, because everything keeps coming back. You know, we're still, I thought Sundance would be the end of sort of focused on that film. And that was the beginning of here we are seven months later. I mean, yes. Marketing materials and all that stuff. And Amazon has been really great about being collaborative with all that stuff. But you know, part of, part of the job is, is making sure that this is delivered to the world in a way that, that represents the film. Um, so I've been able to work on stuff. I've been working on a screenplay for, I did two years of research and I've been writing for another year, almost a year now on that. Uh, and I'm interested to look at that sort of in a month. It's funny

as the date approaches for this thing to be released, I can feel this other part of my brain sort of electrifying again and coming back to life and looking at, um, things in a creative way. And, you know, uh, and as I was, you know, I read, I started reading scripts after Sunday, which I'd never done before because I had never been in this role in this situation. And, uh, and now some. And now I'll be waking up in the middle of the night being like, oh, what was that script from March that I read? It's really exciting to sort of turn that on. Would you do that? Would you direct something that someone else had written?

I think so. I mean, at this point, I'm not going to say no to anything because I never would have thought that I would have directed a movie, you know? But yeah, I mean, I want to, look, I want to entertain and inspire and provoke and like find, create empathy in a world that is losing it by the day. And however that happens, I'm happy to do it. Paul, we end every episode of the show by asking filmmakers, what's the last great thing they've seen? Are you seeing many movies or television shows? I've've seen my movie like 14 000 times i can imagine what's the last great thing i've seen i wish that you'd give me this as a heads up oh it was two nights ago what was it

i couldn't sleep because i was jet lagged and i'd never seen carnal knowledge oh speaking of mike nichols It's fantastic. Yes. That was the exact movie I was thinking of when I said to you, it starts one way and it ends another way. It is fantastic. I was like eating what the hotel has written on them as fancy cashews, but they're just cashews.

It's just a way to charge you $7.50 for them. And I was just popping those open and watching that movie. It was so good. And like filled with subtext and the way that it was shot was so theatrical. It was just excellent. That's a perfect recommendation and maybe a perfect double viewing experience with Britney Ren's A Marathon. I don't know. Maybe not.

Paul, thanks for doing this. Thank you. Thank you to Paul Downs-Calezzo, and thank you, of course, to Amanda Dobbins and Chris Ryan. Please stay tuned on this feed. Later this week, Amanda and I will be sitting down to do a little fall festival preview, which I suspect will be very important for the Oscar race, and the Oscar show is coming back soon,

so stay tuned to this feed to hear more.