The Big Picture - The Horror Movie Draft

Episode Date: October 14, 2022

We are drafting again and since it’s Halloween season, we needed to bring in a big gun. Six-time 'Big Picture' returning champion Alex Ross Perry is live and in studio to parse through the horror canon. Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guests: Alex Ross Perry and Chris Ryan Producer: Bobby Wagner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The time has come to get ready for the 2022 World Cup. And what better way to prepare than by revisiting the World Cup's most amazing goals? I'm Brian Phillips. I'm making a podcast about the history of the Men's World Cup, told through the stories of 22 iconic goals. The show's called 22 Goals. It's out now on the Ringer Podcast Network, and we're having so much fun. Get groceries delivered across the GTA from Real Canadian Superstore with PC Express.

Shop online for super prices and super savings. Try it today and get up to $75 in PC Optimum Points. Visit superstore.ca to get started. I'm Sean Fennessey. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about horror. We are drafting again, and since it's Halloween season, we needed to bring in a big gun, six-time Big picture returning champion alex ross perry is here live and in studio in new york hi alex hi is that i didn't add up the statistics but maybe you did i might have gotten it wrong it might actually be seven i like to drop in and

now you've dropped into my neighborhood that's right you're at an intersection here as i pointed out when bobby came to get me i thought you would maybe be in the spotify offices so you all know we're in the world trade center but instead you're kind of at a very good intersection for me of big picture-ness in my life because we're a stone's throw from the Alamo Drafthouse. Almost every new release that I see, I see there. And pretty much anytime I leave, I fire up your episode about it and I walk home listening to it. That is so heartwarming. So this stretch of street outside is already associated with you.

Well, we're glad you're here. CR is here as well. Hi, Chris. Sean, I associate you with Brooklyn too. I associate the big picture as like the big Brooklyn podcast, you know? Holding Eric Adams' feet to the fire. Chris, please save it for Just My Opinion, our spinoff show that we are plotting endlessly. Amanda, you're here.

I sure am. But you're not going to draft today. How are you feeling about that? I feel amazing. I did absolutely no homework. I'm just, I'm away from my child for the first time. I love him very much, but you know, I'm free. I didn't have any homework.

It's a Nora Ephron day here in New York. I'm thriving. And I can't wait to learn about horror movies from the two of you or the three of you. Sorry, Chris. Did you have the thought of trying to be like, I love Scream. I love like some of these, the faculty, like I love like a certain genre of my youth of movies or were you just like, I strictly don't care? I love Scream. Okay. But I don't think I could get to six. You do not have six horror movies in your canon. Maybe I do. Maybe we'll find out throughout this drafting process that I'm a secret enthusiast.

But no, I mean, I don't think I was invited. First of all, Sean was like, you're going to be there. Well, I didn't think you could get to six either, honestly. That's fair enough. You know, we know each other. And then once you guys started like the email prep, which I respect. You guys know your stuff. But as soon as you started digging into the categories and whatnot, I was like, oh, I'm not going to. I can't hang.

Yeah. And yet it's an honor to finally be on a show with you. Thank you. I feel the same way. I'm excited to ask questions. I felt like Barbarian was a very instructive podcast for me. Have you seen Barbarian yet? No.

Okay. So don't listen to that podcast. We were just covering the shambles my life is in right now that's true okay that's a great point next week if there's like a noon show i am first in line okay chris is going to be a 52 hour podcast where we describe the plots of every horror movie ever made that is what we did for amanda for barbarian we literally went moment to moment throughout the and when i see it at alamo i will walk home listening to that okay chris um horror movies that's been a passion

of ours for a long time, together and separately. You and I are the Santa Sangre brothers, right? Well, I wouldn't go that far, but we're connected when it comes to these kinds of movies. I had to, of course, you had to be here. And Alex, of course, you've talked about horror quite a bit on this show.

Do you consider yourself an expert in the genre? Depends who I'm talking to. Okay. If I'm talking to, oh, just for example, the Hollywood executive who espouses how great my appearance was

about Texas Chainsaw Massacre as a prelude to telling me he's not hiring me to do a horror movie, then yes, I consider myself an expert. If I am like among nerds at a marathon,

I consider myself a pupil. Because you can really step into the weeds and be like, I know everything. And then you go to a, an appearance where it's like, and so-and-so from this movie is here. And you're like, I don't even know what character this is. And I just watched the movie and they're like, he's a genre legend. He's in these seven movies. And I'm like, I don't, I don't know what you're talking about. I feel like I'm the stupidest person in the room all of a sudden. Well, that raises an interesting question, which is sort of what is the point

of this version of the draft? Because, you know, you've recommended movies on the show in the past. I think probably many listeners I've never heard of, but that to you are very important and significant to the canon of horror. Chris, you like to get down and dirty. You're the VOD god when it comes to low budget

little scene horror movies but in the I have a Shudder account which you guys you guys have been I think probably the most you know instructive

pointer at Shudder and other things like that that I just kind of I don't know how to sort through what and I feel like you guys really do a great job of queuing up a lot of

recommendations and I didn't mention this Chris because you're a speck on the screen, but it's also an honor to be joining for a Chris episode. Oh, this is the pleasure is all mine. Yeah, I think, Sean, we probably get the biggest kick out of like, when it comes to just going sight unseen into a genre, like horror is the one that i'll be like i don't care like i'll give it 15 minutes i'll give it 20 minutes to grab me it's like very few other

movies or movie genres would i just be like i don't even really need to read the description if the poster looks good or if i like the title i'll just start watching and also in this day and age horror is one of the last genres that actually do produce on the kind of volume that we're talking about, where you can have prestige RDA24 movies, you can have B movies, you can have horror comedies, you can have blood fests. It's like they still do crank them out.

Amanda, what do you think our goal should be for this draft? Should it be to draft the best known, best loved movies? Should it be a recommendation engine? Should it be a recommendation engine? Should we be tapping Chris and Alex's deep reservoir of knowledge? What do you think would be the best way

to serve the audience and serve ourselves? I think that you should draft some movies that you like. And I think that you can turn this into a psychological breakdown if you want to. In fact, that might be in the spirit of the thing. I don't know, draft some movies that you like, buddy. Tell me about them, you know? Open your heart.

It doesn't have to be this competitive. I'm not in the thing. I don't know, draft some movies that you like, buddy. Tell me about them. You know, open your heart. It doesn't have to be this competitive. I'm not in the game, so you don't have to like try to defeat me. Do I get to vote at the end? You get one vote on twitter.com. That does tie into my wife's question. My wife has been in a huge big picture phase lately. She's just for some reason in the last couple of months, it's just fully locked in on this as her like, I'm at my studio. Listen, and she says to me,'s just, for some reason, in the last couple of months, it's just fully locked in on this as her, like, I'm at my studio. Listen, and she says to me, she goes,

how do you win these drafts? Right. And I was like, I don't actually know. You guys will do them and then you'll talk about who won them, but there's something

in the middle that I miss out on. So they are posted on twitter.com. As a simple poll. As a poll. And that's it. You get one shot.

That's it. One shot. So the goal is, as you've, I feel like, sort of alluded to, like, you're kind of pandering to the fact that you need votes and it is not in your best interest it wasn't always that way what what do you what do you mean i feel like when this draft when

drafting first started it was about like reflections of your personal taste and maybe like undiscovered gems and then it quickly became like who is responsible for that change it was you chris yeah i am an upstart nation he's the big superpower who's like what we have to do is put endgame in or like some avengers movie in every one of our drafts i like avengers movies so those are a reflection of my personal personal passion the longer i see him on that screen the more it's like dr oblivion and videodrome or like or like john hurt and in contact where it's like he may or mayion in Videodrome or like John Hurt in Contact where it's like he may or may not

even be like a real person at this point. He's so small. Chris, please don't turn that studio into a snuff space. We beg you. Although maybe that would be appropriate for this draft. This is the beginning

of a really good horror movie when you think about it. Really good point. Alex, do you remember the first horror movie you ever saw? Well, I have a very clear memory of um being at a friend's house as a you know as a group of people kids watching something while parents were busy and we watched arachnophobia and i guess i know now that that movie is ostensibly a comedy i've never revisited it because it scared me so much

that i had to hide behind the couch while we watched it and woke up in the middle of the night thinking i'd swallowed a spider and threw up and for years i had to sleep behind the couch while we watched it and woke up in the middle of the night thinking I'd swallowed a spider and threw up. And for years, I had to sleep with a trash can next to the bed because I was always afraid of waking up with a spider in my mouth and vomiting again. Oh, my gosh. So, in my mind, that's the scariest movie I've ever, I've never had a reaction to anything like I reacted at the age of six to arachnophobia. That's resonant. There's like a shot in the movie of a body that has died from spider bites

and it's like a pale body covered in blotches. And I was like, I was not prepared for this in any way. That's a really good one. Chris, do you remember the first one that you ever saw?

Yeah, you know, I think there were some Elm Streets and Fridays at sleepovers, but the first movie that I really remember going to, even though it was illicit,

I snuck into Wes Craven's Shocker when I was like 12. And I think it scarred me. I rewatched it last night. It's on Peacock. And I was just like, wow, this is hysterical. Pete Berg is like a psychic football player. And Dr. Timothy Leary is in it. It's a really ridiculous movie.

But it's pretty gory. And so, you know, this was at a time when like the R's were still pretty scary. And I, I remember leaving and being like, I think I'm good on horror movies for like 10 years. And it really wasn't until like my late teens,

early twenties that I started getting much more into them. Yeah. It's kind of like, as we all remember vaguely or now know, like when we were really growing up, growing up like late eighties into mid nineties, that was the worst time in maybe half a century for the genre. So we really grew up in the worst time to be able to say, there's a lot of good, it's not even that there's a lot of good stuff,

it's that there was nothing until Scream, essentially. So early, it's not like as a 10-year-old, we all went to see X movie, because when I was 10, there was nothing. There was no horror movie to go see with your friends and sneak into on a Friday night at all. That's an interesting point. I don't really have a lot of memories of going to see horror movies until Scream. But I certainly watched them at home. Like for me, the one I remember the most, I don't know if this is the first one that I ever saw, but I remember seeing Candyman on cable.

And Candyman also being a big topic of conversation in school. And the Candyman curse and uttering his name into the mirror and there being like an actualization of that. And people, you know, the urban myth of that, the story of that movie. And knowing that that movie was scary as shit, but maybe not knowing that it was as artistic or as accomplished as it actually is.

But that's the kind of, it's a gateway drug, right? If you get intoxicated by that while being as terrified and throwing up as you once were, like you get hooked. I assume you didn't have a portal. You had Scream. Because Scream became a pop cultural.

It was like a big bang. Like you could not not see that movie if you were between the ages of, I don't know, 11 and 17. Yes. So I have a vivid memory. I saw it at home, but I have a vivid memory of seeing that. And then I also have a vivid memory of Blair Witch Project, which was another like pop

cultural phenomenon when I was in high school. So I think when it like crosses over into mainstream is when I became aware of these things. But I didn't have anyone like showing them to me. That was the other thing. Well, that movie obviously is hugely important generationally, I think, for us in part because it's a little bit of a pathway back to a lot of older movies that maybe some people were aware of or they had an awareness of but didn't necessarily know how to get to or hadn't gotten

to yet. Were you scandalized by horror movies as a kid or were you just immediately turned on by them? I think I was. Something like Blair Witch is so violently effective that to not be affected by that movie would be like you'd be insane to not be like scandalized by the experience of watching that. Yeah. In between, I don't really remember. I feel like for Screams, the whole point of that was to go and yell in the theater and have fun with your friends. And for us, 96 to 2000 2000 like that was all there was you would go see two three four of those a year

right and the scandal wasn't there and then i think i've told this story before maybe even to you it was like my bigger memory is that at some point on some summer sci-fi channel showed halloween marathon friday the 13th marathon. And I stayed up from eight to four in the morning watching six of these movies in a row on two consecutive weekends. And that was when I was really afraid of someone coming into my house with a knife, especially after the Halloween marathon. Context is really important for that stuff. I mean, like I, you know, one of the reasons why I think I like horror so much is because my wife likes horror so much. And so it's something that we do together. And early on in our relationship,

we did the same thing, Alex. We rented, this was probably 2002, we rented all the Fridays and Nightmares from a blockbuster when we were staying in Florida for a week. And it was awesome. It was dark, you can hear the crickets outside, and it was kind of isolated.

And we just kept watching these movies. it's almost becomes more of like, I don't know, it's like almost like a physical experience than like an artistic one. You know, you wind up submitting yourself to like the fear and like the anxieties that come along with the process. Chris, what are you and your wife's favorite kind of horror movies? Like you have a monster of choice that you like or like a favorite kind of horror movies? Like, do you have a monster of choice that you like or like a tone that you like best? Well, we're pretty like fixated on setups. So anything where it's like,

oh, we've done that, like we've rented an Airbnb or we've gone on a trip like this. So psychotic. No, I'm serious. I mean, but it's just like, that's a really effective thing. It's like, so Amanda,

if you see your life reflected in a horror movie, would it make you more scared? I don't want to see it. I'm living my life. I don't need to live through the anxieties. I'm like, is this why I can't get you guys to book an Airbnb with me? Because you're just watching all of the hypotheticals out in real time? That's not why, but we'll let you think that's why.

Okay, thanks so much. It's a special thing that you could honestly say there's nothing better than the experience of seeing a great new horror movie in a packed house on a Friday night. You could also say there's nothing better than watching it alone on your couch with the right snacks and some candy on a Friday night.

And both of those statements are equally true depending on what day you're talking about. And there's really not a lot of other, it's not like you could say that for a blockbuster or a superhero movie. It is the only thing that it's like, no, those are both true statements. There is nothing better. Like some of these Shudder originals that you guys are great at pointing at, the enjoyment

of a packed house on a Friday night wouldn't, you know, maybe they don't earn that in terms of their spectacle. So for that, being there is perfect. And then like for halloween ends like i just have to make sure i'm at alamo opening weekend because that'll be the most fun and it'll all these movies these new halloween movies that people are mixed on it's like i've seen great screenings of them there's applause the pre-show is it gets me excited the halloween theme is in the movie three stars stars, great night, ate lots of junk food, and then we walked home.

How are you feeling about the genre right now in 2022? Well, I feel like I've said this before, and I'll keep saying that because I end up talking about these things a lot. But to me, it's a given that any given Shudder original is a better movie than any movie that premieres at Sundance or any major festival. You guys will say, or we'll just be browsing, here's a Shudder original, 2022, 91 minutes. A couple goes on vacation and begins to suspect all is not as it seems. Well, that sounds great. That's definitely worth a watch, whereas it's like winner of the audience award a touching and emotional journey through family and loss i'm like that sounds horrible that sounds nice i can't even imagine watching that i don't disagree with that and then sometimes yeah like anna will come back home from her studio and

be like yeah on the big picture they just mentioned this movie it's like yeah they go to an airbnb and then we're sitting there watching some looking for something to watch and she's like i just need to watch that movie tonight. I can't live another minute without having watched this thing I learned of three hours ago. So I feel like the Shudder thing

is really special and I feel like people are starting to get wise to that whereas five years ago I was saying, it's kind of the only streaming service

that has its own both production and curatorial entity. It also was not as robust as it is now. Chris, I don't know if you're feeling this way but it honestly feels like there's two to three movies a month now that I'm

like, this is an above average horror movie that I don't even know people know about unless they're subscribed to this, which is really unusual for a streaming service where most of the new stuff you get is below average, almost by necessity. Their brand really means something, weirdly. It does. They really, you know, they must put out, you're saying so much stuff, they could probably put out three times as much, but they do seem weirdly both overly prolific and somewhat discerning because nothing that they ever seem to put out that I come across is just a total failure.

Right. Just an absolute, like, and they must say no to a hundred of those things. Sean, do you think that if there was any other genre right now that had, say, the last six weeks that horror did where you have Barbarian and Speak No Evil both available for people

pretty easily, wouldn't we be like, oh, it's the return of this kind of movie? I mean, I feel like horror is in an incredibly healthy place. Yeah, and Pearl too. I mean, it's a bit of a hot moment,

which is part of the reason why I wanted to do this at this time. But the thing is, since that 90s moment that Alex was talking about, I don't really feel like the genre has had a down moment. I mean, it's been the most reliable, original storytelling space for movies from a box office perspective throughout the whole superhero shift and everything that's changed post-pandemic.

So I don't know it's fascinating i mean there's obviously more places to put new horror movies than there ever has been it does feel like the idea of like the exploitation movie or the idea like the grindhouse movie is a little bit gone insofar as it has been subsumed by the machine and like people are more self-aware and like more high-toned auteurs are making grindhouse movies whereas before that was like a by necessity let's make a profit kind of a thing so that that feels a little bit different, but I don't know, by and large, it feels like it's in a good place. Yeah, I think both at the blockbuster level, which we'll get to for that category, and

at the independent level, there's not a lot of things that it's like a lot of these movies that are doing great in theaters are actually kind of good. And a lot of these movies that will never play in a theater are actually kind of good as well. It's pretty nice to be a fan. I mean, certainly if you're me or perhaps you, and definitely not Amanda, you do have 45 straight days of potential new options.

Not that I only watch new horror movies this time of year, but you really do have, by the time October rolls around, easily a dozen movies that came out in July, June, May that I'm like, I'll just save that for October. And then, yeah, that's like a third of horror season. It's just stuff from this year that I hear is actually really good. Do you ever get curious about any of these films that we discuss on the show? Are you ever like, maybe that might be the one that is my gateway drug? Yes. For example, the first half sentence of your description of Speak No Evil, I was like,

oh, okay okay they're going to an airbnb you know once again i'm interested in the luggage and i know that's how they get me but then you kept talking and then i didn't want to see it anymore also because you know vacation friends is still a concept that is a little alien to me but i i always wish that i could just see the movie before the creepy stuff starts, if that makes any sense, which I understand is the experience of a lot of horror movies. In your descriptions, it's often like the first 90 minutes, you'd be fine. And then the last 20 minutes, you'd be really upset. But I don't know, you told me about one. I can't remember if this

was Speak No Evil or a different film recently, where there are just some masked strangers who show up on the front porch and terrorize everyone. It's a film called The Strangers. That's a CR classic. Okay. Yeah. Oh. Soon to be a trilogy remade.

Apparently. Yeah. Yeah. It's unfortunate. Well, that's the other thing. And even that's a remake. That's true. Yeah.

That's a good point. I don't really understand what. Anyway, like every night when I go to sleep and I hear things outside, then I just have a vivid image of like a masked stranger standing outside our window. So no, you know, I don't know if it's for me. You're sort of following my wife's logic when we watched Gremlins a few years ago. They get to the point where they have Gizmo and he hasn't gotten wet or anything and it's 30 minutes in. And she said, if we turn this off now, this is just a great Christmas movie about a family who gets a funny little pet.

Yeah, that's right. There hasn't been a gremlin yet. And she does, you know, obviously she can watch any horror movie that we want to. But sometimes if you turn the movie off, it's just like they went away on vacation. Their first night was nice and they woke up the next morning and the movie was over. Sure. And they like, they set up a world and everything is done with a lot of care. That's often not done in the types of movies that I like to watch.

So I can kind of appreciate it. But I don't, I just get, I get too anxious. What about like really classic, classy, you know, the omen, this is an ambassador, he lives in a stately mansion. Like maybe the world of that must hold some appeal. Yes, but then do like gross things happen? Yeah, the kid's head starts twisting around. Yeah, see, that I even don't get scared about,

but I just, once the gross-out stuff starts... A man is impaled by a giant pole in the film The Omen. Okay, I mean, that's cool, I guess, but I'm not cheering at that. I just kind of... Is it the nanny that's impaled by the pole and the man who gets the head cut off? Yeah, you're right, you're right.

It's the nanny who's impaled, yeah. Okay. Is she falling a gate? I'm mixing up the death sequences in the omen right at some point i'm just like not even really paying attention i like i almost get bored i don't know something about my brain shuts off when i'm watching those things it's really i'm sad for you this is one of the best things in my life i'm i'm happy for you and you don't like romantic comedies and i do so like we each have our genres we discussed this that's not true what you just said um okay should we should we talk about the

categories can i ask this biographical chris oh yeah please do yeah question chris what is what tell what is the kim's timeline for you this has to be a record i have so many kim's people that are like did you know that guy i listen to him all the time he always mentions it never says when he worked there can you can you give some context for this, Chris? So I worked at a record store, video store called Mondo Kim's on St. Mark's in New York. And I started working there right after 9-11. Like, so probably maybe November 01.

You make it sound like you started working there because of 9-11. Well, there were no more jobs. So like I moved to New York City to work in.com and then that stopped happening. So like I moved to New York City to work in.com and then that stopped happening. So like I had to go back to working at record stores. So I got a job at Kim's in November and I was the indie rock rap buyer,

like the assistant buyer at Kim's and I sat in the back. So I was there for like two or three years. Jeez. Someone, I mean, yeah, everyone who's brought this up was like, he must've been just before my time, but then I haven't talked to the people that were there then. There were also like a lot,

if you had friends who were in the video department, like those dudes were like, A, three floors above me, and B, like sometimes we just wouldn't see each other because I was just in the back. Yeah, but the bathroom that you had to use was on our floor. On the second floor, yeah. So the music buyers would emerge to use the bathroom, which we had hidden. And at least at my time, the records were on our floor. On the second floor. Yeah. So the music buyers would emerge to use the bathroom, which we had hidden.

And at least at my time, the records were on our floor. Yes. So you were on the second or the third floor? I was on the second. Okay. So the record would be brought up. This is going to be a great episode of Armando Kim's Narrative Pod. Yeah, you're just sort of this mysterious,

no one that I've talked to had your timeline in their back pocket. But I guess I need to check with some of the slightly predating me people. Well, Chris, it actually raises a funny question, which is, you know, Kim's for some people in New York was considered like a space where you could find a lot of the movies that were certainly a lot harder to find in the days before Shudder. Oh, yeah, for sure. A lot of the films that were just straight up not carried at the blockbusters.

The remarkable horror and genre section. Incredible section. Sprawling and well-organized. Did you ever dig in any of that stuff? I didn't. I didn't really rent movies from Kim's. I was like, by the time I was done my day of like putting $13.99 on 45 CDs

and then putting them out there, I was like, it's time to go. I'm not going to go look at Dario Argento movies. Wow. You were just like the cement mixer of rap buyers. You were just like, I got a job to do and I got to get out of here i got to go turn on the eagles when i get home and one final question where in philadelphia

did you grow up because you always mentioned that too fair amount so right by the art museum all right gee so that's pretty nice that's nice stuff uh yeah i mean it's it's evolved over the years this might come up one more time as categories get laid out but since this was brought up a minute ago where did you see the Blair Witch Project

did you see that in Philadelphia in Boston in Kendall Square in Boston so you don't have the same because I saw it

at the Ritz East oh wow on a legendary a legendary day in my teenage life of experiencing that movie yeah

I saw it in Kendall Square and literally like walked out and was just like that was real. They're dead. And yeah.

You know the the beauty of the theater that I saw it in. Yes. And yeah the story on that is that a buddy of mine and I you know had been hyped for months.

We were ready. Took the train into the city from Bryn Mawr where I grew up. We were like we'll get off the train we'll walk to the Ritz. There's a two o grew up. We were like, we'll get off the train. We'll walk to the Ritz.

There's a two o'clock. We get there at 1.30 and there's a line down the block and every show is sold out until nine. So we get tickets for the nine o'clock, have an entire day in the city by ourselves. We're like, you know, 15. Come back nine o'clock. I call my parents from a pay phone. Guess I'm coming back at midnight.

See the Blair Witch Project nine o'clock at night. Just walk home through the walk to the walk through the city to the gym it's just a legendary moment of like I can't believe what I just saw and I waited eight extra hours for it worth it that's amazing it was a really great day that was that we'll never go back to that time yeah not only will we never be able to have it but we won't be able to have a movie experience like that unfortunately but you just show up and you have to wait eight more hours because every show time is sold out. Even just a line. With no arc

light in Los Angeles, I'm trying to think, is there a single movie theater where there would be a line to get into a movie, even on a Friday night? Right? No? No, I don't think so. That's really sad. Okay, with that in mind, let's draft. New categories for this episode,

obviously. Here are the categories that we bargained for. And we can talk about how we feel about them before we go. Robust email correspondence. I thought it was like a really polite markup session. You know, like bipartisan. Just reaching across the aisle. A couple amendments here and there. But we did well.

You were McConnell in this exchange, right? Just so we're clear. And Alex was Pelosi. You were the greatest filibusterer of my friend group. So if there's anybody who's Moscow Mitch, it's you.

Okay. Here are the categories. The email back and forth about, as I said, the emails do give some good, if those ever get hacked for the draft truthers, you're in trouble.

Because the delay on giving these categories as well as the endless refinement of them. Oh my God. It really stacks the deck. That's not Oh my God. It really stacks the deck. That's not a new tactic. It just stacks the deck against me.

What are we talking about? No, no, that's not true. I am honored that Alex is here to do this with us. I'm honored that Chris is participating yet again. It does give me the idea that one day we should do a draft where we pick the categories. You and I? Yeah.

Like we pick the draft and we picked the categories and Sean has to submit. That would require you guys doing some fucking work, alright? I'm out here. I got Targaryens coming out of my ears. You know how hard this is? I gotta figure out which dragon is which. Okay, Vigar. Settle down.

Let's do the categories. Category number one, Slasher. Arguably the holiest of all of the horror genres, subgenres. Number two, legacy or sequel. Now, the idea here is that obviously horror is powered in many ways by its franchises, that

this is a category that needs at least three movies to qualify officially as a legacy or sequel film. Chris and I were having an offline conversation about this, and he was asking, can you draft the original film from the legacy franchise? And you can,

but I don't think that's in the spirit of fun. Your email about this category was so breathtakingly confusing. Okay. It was really... Thank you. And even now,

you've added another wrinkle to it. And guilt and condescension all at once. Any slasher movie now qualifies because they're all part of a legacy

franchise and most of them are they all though well see this is the thing I mean no they're obviously slashers

like the burning that don't have a sequel that was the exact film that I was thinking of thank you Alex and that probably reveals maybe

what would be on our draft or like the mutilator that I mostly slept through while watching last night but that would be an insane pick

if you were like round one I'm drafting the mutilator over all other slashers i don't know cr might do it you've seen the mutilator can i just tell you one thing real quick yeah i love you but last night when you texted me like i don't think it's in the spirit of the draft to draft the first movie i was like if i'm getting if i'm getting fucking worked i'm gonna lose my mind what was the movie that you texted me about that you wanted to know

if I thought it was cool and I told you I thought it was really really cool and then you drafted it and I explained how it's about having sex with underage girls

oh it was Night Moves yeah it was the 1975 draft and I was like Night Moves is one of my favorite movies of all time the night before the draft and then you took it

trying to get it for me and I immediately was like I was like oh what's Night Moves and watched it the night before the draft I don't know what your process is I'm just saying that if this goes down the way it could in Legacy

like it's going to be a little bit of an issue. I don't even know how it can go down I still don't understand this category is either 1000 options or I mean this category still I still can't wrap my head around that. Well that's the joy of drafting. Welcome to the show, Alex.

But every other category I think is crystal clear. The third category is blockbuster. That one is definitely clear. $75 million or more at the domestic box office. That's the threshold for this category. We use it all the time in all of our regular drafts. Classical era. There was some debate and discussion and negotiation from Mitch and co on this one.

We landed on pre-1970. Alex, what was your thinking behind adding this as a category? I just didn't want... I don't know what the other option was that would have been there. I just didn't want to neglect the first 50 years. Not that anybody might say, like, I have to pick this Universal Monster movie, but you could. Otherwise, I don't think you would. If you were saying it's legacy sequel and then...

Originally, I thought you might be doing... Because you say slasher. And then I was like, okay, so maybe then there'll be a vampire category. Maybe there'll be a zombie category. And therefore, there should be a classic category just for catch-all. Your Poe adaptations, things of that nature. I just wanted to make sure that there's an opportunity to talk about the fact

that the genre did exist in a really different aesthetic form. I thought about making this category monster movie, which would have encompassed most of, if not all, of the Universal films,

but not all of the kinds of movies you just said. I do think pre-1970s fun, although, Chris, you wanted to push the boundaries on this. You're not as big a fan of the really older horror films.

I think you had 50, right? 60. I think we had 60. 60. And you lobbied for 70. I was pushing for a very specific dividing line in horror movie history. Got it. The next category is foreign language or British.

I picked up the British from a recent request from a well-known filmmaker who asked me to make a list of my favorite foreign language or British films from a certain era, which maybe I'll share on the show one day. This is also important because previously, in the first iteration of the draft, when we had animated or foreign language, you famously would not allow Chris to pick a British film in the foreign language. I guess it was foreign, not foreign language. That's right. Yeah. So you're getting soft. Well, here's the thing. Just like the Osc language. I guess it was foreign, not foreign language. That's right. Yeah. So you're getting soft. Well, here's the thing.

Just like the Oscars. Yeah. And they should change that. But to Chris, British is not foreign. That is home. Okay. Well, the way things are going, they're going to be going back to speaking English Saxon there.

I hear labor is dominating today. Is that a fact? Well, they're still not in power, so it doesn't really matter. This category is also nearly bottomless. Yes, that's true.

I mean, all of these are nothing more bottomless than wildcard, which is eligible to be anything. Especially with these other categories, I would say

there's more things that can only fit there than can only fit anywhere else. That can only fit in foreign language? In wildcard. Oh. A number of, I think. Yes, I agree with you.

Essential picks or grabs. Oh, I see. Simply do not fit into those other categories at all. So. Because slasher is the only sub-genre you have in here. I mean, are you, do you want to broker right now to replace the category? No, my brain does not

have that in it. It's better to keep these wacky restrictions and I still need more explanation on the Legacy sequel one, but Wild Card.

What is one sub-genre that you would suggest? Well, I mean, I wouldn't suggest this, but yes, monster, vampire,

zombie. Like, you could have done all sub-genres. Right. But instead, it's a lot of familiar categories from other drafts with slasher as the only subgenre even though a slasher might be a foreign language film or a british film a slasher might be a blockbuster i think there were some on that list part of the, one constriction is the essence of the draft. So the idea of having to use the framework is very important,

but also the ability to shift certain films into different categories is also critical because then it's fun to be like, well, what category are you taking this legendary film in? And sometimes it's very hard for us to decide where they should go. This one probably more than any. Wild card on this one just feels like maybe the most contested of things that might be so desirable. But before,

I really do want more explanation on the Legacy sequel. Okay. Demarcation. Who do you want it from? Let's say, I would say Amanda, but let's just say

who understands this the most? I don't understand. Here's what I think it is. It's any movie from a series that features more than three movies in the franchise. Correct, Sean? Correct.

Including the first one. It can include the first one, yes. It can be the first one, but Sean will look down on you. Yeah. Even though when this goes to a vote, there will probably not be that caveat and people will just be like,

why did you pick this movie instead of... If I could offer you any advice, it's ignore Sean and his... Well, I could have no he's the only one making the rules yeah if i ignored him i would have nothing but you can put things to a vote in the process you know and i am here and if i have any goals they're twofold one to learn about horror films and two to you know stymie sean at every turn so whatever you need would it have been better to just make this category sequel?

Maybe. The legacy aspect, I think, threw me because that's such a new thing. And it's sort of like, what is the legacy of anything? Well, we're here to decide that. Yeah.

In part. It just, it confused, it confused me a lot, but also then it really got me thinking like, okay, so if I was going to come in with enough horror sequels in my pocket that I'm like, that could be if I was going to come in with enough horror sequels in

my pocket that I'm like, that could be in my six. Really, what would those be? That actually was challenging. Well, what appeals to me about that concept is there are a lot of horror sequels that I think are far superior to the original. I look forward to hearing some. I really might. Yeah. I couldn't think of more. I couldn't think of more than like half a dozen. Chris, how do you feel about making it sequel? I'm fine with it. What does that change? That's what I already thought it was.

Yeah, I think it cleans it up a little bit. Well, I'll give you an example. It makes Alien ineligible. Alien should already be ineligible. Okay, well that's

another interesting question. In fact, we debated that once upon a time on an episode last year. But why does that make Alien ineligible but then the other movies in that series

are not really horror movies at all. That's completely true. I agree with you, but then does that mean that Alien in full is not eligible for a category like this because we've removed the one true horror entry? But it's still available to be drafted. I mean, if you must.

Okay. This is like on the blockbuster list. So you're saying Alien is not a horror movie? You could have had me come up with a hundred options. I never would have even thought of Alien. On the blockbuster list you're you're saying alien is not a horror movie i could have you could have had me come up with a hundred options i never would have even thought of alien on the blockbuster list you said i didn't either and jaws was just my favorite movies number two on the horror list the blockbuster yes jaws is very debatable to me alien is not debatable i think aliens and alien 3 and all the other aliens to me alien is a horror movie for a variety of you've seen and liked Alien.

Yeah, I do. Yeah, also I fucking lived it last year, but whatever. Sounds like a whole... Yeah, you're John Hurt. Yeah. Are you kidding? If you've seen it

and you like that movie, it's probably not a horror movie. Oh, the Amanda rule. The Amanda corollary. Well, then by that token, Blair Witch doesn't count. Yeah, and I like Blair Witch. Well, that would have been really fun

to just list every horror movie you've ever seen and make all of those ineligible. Yeah. To say that they're not true horror. I mean, we could spice it up. If you draft something and I've seen it and like it, then you've got to pick again. Why not? Let's have some fun. You look scared, but come on.

I mean, I've certainly seen enough horror movies to make that happen, but it does take a number of classics off the board. I don't think I've seen Texas Chainsaw Massacre. We're not in danger. That's the key, is that those other ones you just listed are ones you have like firsthand memories of experiencing in your younger years with friends. Whereas Alien, you obviously saw as like,

this is a classic movie. It's really scary and violent and gross. And you were like, cool, I like this. Instead of like, we're all going to the mall to see Scream. So you think that I shouldn't be allowed to disqualify Alien? I think it should. I'm saying the fact that you came to it- But I can't dis to see Scream. So you think that I shouldn't be allowed to disqualify Alien? I think it should. I'm saying the fact

that you came to it. But I can't disqualify Scream. Well, you can do whatever you want. Have you seen The Exorcist? No, I've seen clips from it. Okay. Because you once

made a funny joke about one of our children like looking like The Exorcist while crawling and I got the reference. See, this is what our life is now. I just feel like, yeah, so, okay, life is now. What do you want from it?

I just feel like, yeah, so, okay, we've now muddied the issue on this category further. Let's make it sequel. Take Legacy out, take the original out. I think that's helpful.

Also, Alex has decided that if you draft Aliens in this draft, Chris, that you're a loser. Aliens? Aliens? You can draft whatever you want. I just,

some of these things do not fall into my... Aliens is not a horror movie Aliens. Aliens. You can draft whatever you want. I just, some of these things do not fall into my, Aliens is not a horror movie. My personal categorization. You know, it's a war movie is how it's always described. Yeah.

Exactly. Okay. But like, you know, I feel like to go back to a recent draft, like when you had, when you had Tarantino on

and he was yelling at Amanda about Fatal Attraction, he was like, this wouldn't rent if we put it in the horror section at Video Archives or maybe Roger said that. Do you think that wouldn't rent if we put it in the horror section at Video Archives or maybe Roger said that. Do you think that's true?

Alien wouldn't rent in the horror section. It would rent in the sci-fi section. Hmm. But can there be horror in space? Of course.

There's plenty of movies like that, but they're in space first and foremost. I'm not sure I agree with you. I think it would rent. If you see something

in the horror section with a title, Alien this, Alien invaders, you're like, I don't really like what I hear about this. But the tagline is,

in space, no one can hear you scream. That's true. That is a horror tagline. It is a good tagline. I'm not debating... We should draft a tagline. We're literally regurgitating

a debate that Chris and I had about horror franchises last year on the show. I think that was a great episode. Thank you. We listened to that for the season. We did decide

that Alien should be included as a horror franchise. I vaguely remember being incensed by that. Yeah. How nice for you to be able to relive it in real time.

One out of eight of those movies is a horror. I mean, that is a very... What's the most recent Ridley one? That one's kind of

a horror movie too. Covenant. Covenant that one's kind of a horror movie to Covenant Covenant that's kind of a so is Predator a horror movie who I don't remember what we decided on that one I don't think it's just blatantly not I don't

think it's an action and yet when you zoom out Alien and Predator are combinable in their horror ish monster elements even though the DNA of both is so different the only thing

that's missing from the Predator series is Amanda getting freaked out by it because it's about birth. It's actually not about birth, but we should make a Predator movie about birth. I'm good. CR? Chris accidentally impregnates a Predator.

I would watch it. That would be a good film. Why would it be accidental? Let's do some work on the script together. No, I'm just asking from like a logistical standpoint well I think we could find some reasons do you think I get taken

by a female predator no there's like a mix up at the lab you know and like you know the predator the female predator comes in

and she's like I froze my predator eggs and you know like okay we can draft now you guys want to draft yeah that predator has my eyes No, like... Okay. We can draft now. You guys want to draft? Yeah. That predator has my eyes.

Wax, we need to do the draft order. I know. And for the draft truthers out there that Alex referred to earlier, they're going to go wild with this because I forgot my Top Gun hat. So it's just going to be... I am going to let you guys audit it, though.

Yes, we can actually see the wheel for the first time. This is a huge twist yeah oh Chris Ryan will be selecting first overall all right

this is that's great for draft energy you gotta take alien dude and then Alex will be going second which makes Sean third okay

that is that is quite a wheel you have there yeah it's a real wheel look Alex gonna test for all the listeners who think I'm faking it. Chris, do something weird. Do it. So, first pick in Blockbuster, My Son, the Predator.

No, I'm going to take, in Slasher, I'm going to take Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Okay. This is the scariest movie I ever saw. I think I've told this story. I had never seen it I was like 20 I was living with a bunch of dudes in Boston

like the first night we moved into like a house together like it was like just one of those like kind of beaten up houses in Mission Hill we had like one tape

somehow we had Texas Chainsaw Massacre and we started it at 1am in a house with like all the furniture's overturned, nothing is working, everything is just still moving in. And the movie ended and I

stayed up all night because I was just too freaked out. And since then, I've just watched it over and over again. And it's just like, I think it's kind of the apex of horror to me still. That feeling of like, is this real? Is this happening? Did this happen? And the way in which it just

uh sends your like sends your psyche into overdrive as you're watching it i just i adore this movie are you emotionally the best i know it's your it's a it's a tough thing to lose right away yeah i'm sorry i'm surprised it just felt like the first pick for somebody no matter what i was a little heartbroken for alex when said that. I have plenty of backup ideas. It is a movie that the first time I saw it, I thought it was real. And that's like, we're going to be a recurring theme. What happened is true. This is the sort of tagline of the movie. Do you have the same level of interest in that franchise and in terms of seeing all the films the way that Alex does? Because last time he was here, he basically gave us the pop cultural history of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre films.

I would say I'm conversant, but not obsessive. Like I've seen some of the sequels. I saw the, what was the one that was the Netflix one that was most recent. Like, I think I've seen most of them at various points, but it's the first one that really kind of towers above for me. And have you named your predator son Leatherface? Cross promotional opportunities for him on TikTok are just amazing.

Second pick, Alex. Hmm. Well, it's tough. It was right there. No, I mean, this could go anywhere. I think I will take in Slasher, Psycho. Oh, interesting. Okay.

Losing Texas Chainsaw this has to be my number two pick overall and my number two pick in that category so this was

certainly atop the leaderboard also in the pre-1970 category yeah now I can open up another classical choice as needed

okay I mean would you like to speak about the film Psycho I think it really needs no introduction and if it does I mean again like another Tarant speak about the film Psycho? I think it really needs no introduction. And if it does, I mean, again, like another Tarantinoism that he's always espousing now, it's like, if you need an introduction to that, you're an asshole at this point.

But the only introduction I can say, and Chris, you might remember this venue as well, is the Prince Theater in Philadelphia, which is sort of now used for the Philadelphia Film Festival. But at some point when I was like 12 or 13, they started doing a lot of rep screenings. And I have a clear memory of my dad driving me into the city to see Psycho at the Prince. And just, I'd never, I hadn't seen it. And I hadn't gotten to it yet on my AFI Top 100 checklist. And I just sat there in the theater and watched it for the first time. Do you remember if you went into Psycho blind?

Like, were you like, I know what happened? I think I must have. I mean, the level in which I put my mind being blown at this screening says yes. Yeah. I mean, I have to, I just, one of the, if I could go back in any time to like have a movie experience, one of those things would be to see Psycho, just be like, there's a new Alfred Hitchcock movie out. I guess I'll go see it. Right. This kind of is the answer that comes up for that all the time. If you could go to something opening night,

knowing nothing, I feel like nine out of 10 people who care about such things would be like, I mean, to see psycho where no one knows what's happening would be. And they all, there was also that famous Alfred Hitchcock instruction about once you've entered the film, you can't leave and no one gets in after it started.

And you know, like there was that level of secrecy that orbited the movie was so powerful. And you're like, I've seen the trailer. He's walking around twiddling his fingers and there's very goofy music. He's giving you this funny tour. He opens the door and then closes it again. Like trailer looks pretty fun. So the trailer is actually somewhat similar to my introduction to this movie, which was when I was nine years old, I came to visit family in California and we went to Universal Studios and on the Universal Studios tour. The Hitchcock thing at Universal Studios

is like the cultural loss I mourn the most for. This is my Penn Station. That's funny. But, you know, obviously there's quite a bit of explanation and exploration of Psycho during the Universal Studios tour.

I didn't do the shower scene bit, but as a kid, on the tram tour, you would drive past the Bates Motel and the house on the hill. That's still there. And a woman would,

during the tour, a woman in the Mrs. Bates outfit would come out and like wave at you while holding a knife. That's sick. They still do that?

That still happens. What I'm talking about is the world of Hitchcock at Universal Studios Florida I don't know if I did that that nobody knows exists existed

this was a real thing look it up there's a YouTube there's a YouTube walkthrough of it Universal Studios Florida the world of Alfred Hitchcock it is an immersive exhibit

was that takes you through the world of Hitchcock in this sort of I think I did do this right because is it is it Saboteur

off the Statue of Liberty like where they recreate there's that and then there's the sort of like, here's how you film someone hanging off the edge of a building. There's a rear window display where people, like you can look at binoculars and there's a huge rear window wall. I did do this, yeah, as a kid. And I have, to this day, on the doorknob of the room that is my office, my Bates Motel do not knock in the shower door hanger. And I i have a base motel washcloth and like a lapel pin of the base motel sign from this exhibit that i went to probably around the time i saw it like must have been really close to when i saw the movie and yeah the world of hitchcock look it up

it this i swear to god this existed that's great and upon it was like an opening day attraction at universal florida and they were like what happened to it what happens to anything in the theme park that people forget about? I'm just like can we resurrect it somewhere? It's in heaven with the Back to the Future ride and stuff like that. It gets replaced with Shrek 4D or something.

Amusement Park Heaven is also a really good idea for a horror movie. But I swear on the tour now if you took it tomorrow someone would run out of the Bates house dressed as Mother. I believe it. I mean that if you took it tomorrow, someone would run out of the Bates house dressed as Mother. I believe it. I mean, that was extremely bad. Or sometimes someone comes out of, sometimes a Norman comes out of the motel on the tour.

That wasn't my experience. We can budget for that when we buy the light from the lighthouse. Then we can start to assemble a sort of museum of our own. It'd be pretty easy for you to do an episode. Anyway, that's my pick. Okay. So that means, I can't believe I'm getting Halloween and Slasher.

Did that really happen too? You guys let me get Halloween? John Carpenter's masterpiece? Wouldn't you have said that if I had taken Psycho and Alex had taken Texas? Wouldn't you be like, oh, I got Halloween?

Like, I mean, or if I had taken Halloween and Alex had taken Texas, you would have been like, I got Psycho? Alfred Hitchcock? Have you ever heard of him? You can come look at my list

if I were willing to share it with you. What is sitting number one on slasher for me? And it's, why don't you just put it in the big pick doc? You can now, cause I own it.

So I can sit at number one in this. This is an interesting category too, because there are a lot of great slashers that I would want to celebrate, but it's hard to get past that like iconic four or five, which is often a problem with some of our draft categories where people like why did you talk

about this cool movie and it's like well we only drafted what 18 movies overall there's only so much you can do so yeah so now that we've all started with that what else could have been taken or do we want to save that for later because some of these might turn up you can save I'll just give you one example of a movie that maybe you guys will want to take and you can still can but I don't think I'm stepping on anything but But like, I love Sleepaway Camp. Sleepaway Camp scared the shit out of me as a kid. That was a really horrifying movie. Amanda doesn't even like the name.

It's a good one. Well, first of all, I mean, did I like Sleepaway Camp? No. But so what happens in Sleepaway Camp? Oh, God. Is it like, do the kids turn on each other? Is there an evil counselor? Is there a monster?

No, you haven't even hit on it yet. So many options. It's an individual girl who's being terrorized at camp. And a lot of the people who pick on her wind up disappearing, going home, the counselors think. Okay. But little do they know that there's more going on. Okay, got it. A great movie.

They're not disappearing. They're being disappeared. Yeah, a great movie. That's messed up. They're being disappeared. Yeah. A great movie. It's a really, it's an awesome movie. But like that would be a very bold pick. I agree. Like if you had five people,

you might get there if you were fifth. Yes. It was like down the list on my slasher list, but it's a movie that I love that maybe we're not taking the time out to celebrate. I was thinking about this last night while I was watching The Mutilator. Because I was just, you know, that sort of like B minus C plus tier of slashers

is pretty bottomless and you have to be a very specific kind of person to be like, I literally was in my head doing the thought exercise of like, is my bloody Valentine, like that's not top tier, but it's high enough that they remade it,

which you can't say about burning The Mutilator. If they remade it, it's in another category. Part of the reason for that, though, and this is definitely a sidetrack conversation, but that movie has a great premise and kind of an iconic-looking killer. So does The Prowler. And The Prowler is one of these one-and-done,

kind of forgotten... Are you pitching us on a Prowler remake? Alex Ross Perry's The Prowler? I mean, I'm sure the person who would hire me to do that wouldn't after listening to this and being like, man, that guy knows more than most people we bring in. But yeah, I was just thinking about like, the A list is very small. A dozen movies at most. The B list is 75 movies and the C list is 400 movies.

And I feel like that's, you know. That's true. That's a category I can live in. It's not a bad idea to keep shouting out some C-listers even as we draft just for the sake of recommendation

okay so I go again it's funny that we all got slasher out of the way probably because our heart is in slasher and also because it's the only true subgenre

as you point out Alex those are the ones I think it would be difficult to lose because as I said there's not more than a handful should I just wax poetic about Halloween to lose because as I said, there's not more than a handful. Should I just wax poetic about Halloween for 20 minutes while I figure out what to do?

Yeah, that sounds great. Why don't you also sing the song for us? I'm not going to do that. People should listen to the show that Amy Nicholson did many years ago on the Ringer Podcast Network about the history of Halloween. That's one of the best pods we ever made. Sean, when are you going to start doing a lot of like social media about like it's spooky season. It's like you in a turtleneck.

Should I change my Twitter name? To Sean quotes. Spooky, shrieking Sean Fennish. Yeah. Can't even say. Like a pumpkin emoji in the name. I will say that as I was pointing out to you guys

when I got here, my wife's out of town so I'm single parenting. I did make time to put up the Halloween decorations. Oh, wow. That's beautiful. Days before October 1st. I was going to was gonna say so you do it pre my wife and I were just talking about this you'll do it in September I had no choice wow because otherwise I'm really

busy on October 1st and otherwise it has to wait until the 3rd and that's too late yeah all the inside ones are up my outside ones I didn't put up yet because I forgot they're down in the basement. Your life-size replica of the Prowler? I did want to get a life-size thing last year from Spirit Halloween. She wouldn't let me. I just have to hang up on the outside of our building, which other people live in, but not in our...

We have windows. My Crystal Lake sign and my Elm Street sign. That's pretty great. Those did not get put up yet, but that's really good. Any day now, I'll yet, but you know. That's really good. Any day now, I'll remember to go down to the basement and grab those. Sean, I need you to come over

and help me install the field of alien eggs that I have for my lawn. By install, do you mean inseminate? Okay. I'm going to keep going with that one.

Did you put up your Crystal Lake sign yet, Amanda? No. Okay. You got to get that out of storage. My next pick is a film called The Exorcist. Yeah.

I'm taking it in Blockbuster. This is probably the signature horror blockbuster of all time, right? It's one of the highest. It's the highest on that list. It's the highest grossing movie from that genre. It's one of the most frenzied movie going moments in American history. If you go back and watch some of the recent documentaries, there's a really fascinating one

about William Friedkin and the making of The Exorcist, which includes some of the conversation around the extraordinary success of this movie. Chris, did we do The Exorcist on the rewatchables? We did.

We did, right? That was good. Yeah, it was awesome. We had a lot of Pazuzu content come out of that. That's right. That's right. We did talk about Pazuzu

quite a bit. I famously have a Pazuzu quite a bit. I famously have a Pazuzu statue in my backyard. Where do you store all this stuff? Well, it's in my backyard. This is standing. This has been there every day since I bought it. This doesn't go up for the season.

But it wasn't there. You brought it to the house. You didn't move in because they had a Pazuzu statue. I've recommended this company when I was asked to do a recommendations newsletter. But there's this company on Etsy that I think is called Big Buddha. And they make these really nice stone statues. So I have a Pazuzu and a Baphomet from them. So those were custom.

You are the best. No, I mean, not for me. This company makes them. Oh, I thought that you like place an order. No, no. But it's made of heavy stone. Let's go back. So you said you went to ancient Sumeria and you went with a with the priest i have the cthulhu

thing that's the right size of what it's described as so i have this little like area in the backyard that we have of my step my creepy statues talk to me about size briefly like two feet 12 inches oh okay oh just okay all right that's. Do you know how hard it is to find lawn ornaments that are like this in that size? Like, in my mind, I said, I need to get a gigantic stone Lord of the Rings cave troll. Okay. Doesn't exist. You make it sound like this should be available at Home Depot, though. I mean, this is crazy what you're doing.

A lot of this stuff isn't available at Home Depot. I mean, you've been seeing how they do, like, big 10-foot werewolves you can buy there. Yeah. I wanted a two-foot Indiana Jones idol. Love it. No one makes that. You can get it for your desk, for your shelf, but not to live outside. So these stone pieces are really nice.

Alex, you're literally just throwing away money. Yeah. Every good idea I have, five years later, someone else does it. And I slept on it. Maybe with the return of Indiana Jones next year, this is something you could develop? Well, I mean, that's not the million-dollar idea there. What is the million-dollar idea there? It's just the whole company.

It's not all the Indiana Jones idol. Okay, so you want a stone-carving company of movie memorabilia? Just like dark, nerdy stuff. Okay. Because as I learned, I really think here's the cross-section. There's people who take care of their lawns and want to put up ornaments there's horror nerds

and then the Venn diagram middle is simply me like I love going outside firing up a podcast drinking some water and cleaning up the modest Brooklyn

sized backyard I have I also love the idea of like that's where Cthulhu goes and I really don't think anyone else shares that with me. I can't deter these dogs from my lawn with please pick up after your dog. But maybe Pazuzu will do it.

Pazuzu is great. Exorcist is great. I saw a print of that last year at a horror marathon. It was the first movie. I've been wanting to revisit it for years. Spooled it up and I had a great time. It absolutely rocks. It still rocks to this day.

You know what's interesting? Part of the delight of seeing this movie last November, it was the week after Halloween, was I had just read both books. Horrible. Do you know how bad these books are? I've never read them. They're terrible. It's William Peter Blatney. Yeah. I found both books to be such a slog, especially Legion, which is a great movie. Alex, do you like the the third exorcist the Georgie Scott one yeah that's what I'm saying it's a great movie so that's the book for it was just I mean I couldn't I read them and I just in my mind I was like these are great books because I'd read the first one when I was younger not good and he directed three yeah and it's good

he adapted his own book and directed into a good movie and I thought man the book must be even better it's not where do you stand on the ninth configuration? I've never seen it. Oh, have you seen that, Chris? His other film? Blatty's other film? No. It's been on my list forever.

With Stacy Keach? It's really interesting. It's about ex-soldiers coming out of Vietnam who are kind of seemingly stuck in an insane asylum of some kind.

Yeah. It's really interesting. Always meant to see that one. It was actually available where else but on Shudder a few months ago. Exorcist is a great pick. Okay. So I've got two. We're meant to see that one. It was actually available where else but on Shudder a few months ago. Exorcist is a great pick. Okay.

So I've got two. We're back to you, Alex. I'm going to... I just can't not... If this got taken away from me it would be horrible. I'll have to take Hellraiser and Wildcard.

Oh, interesting. Okay. Which is one of a dozen movies that I think is the only place you can even vaguely claim it i thought about trying to convince you that it's british so i have to say in wild card of all my wild cards that's the one that if it got taken it would be it would be too too sad for me this would be table flip in time this

was number three on my my wild card list for the exact same reason you said which is i don't really know where to put this because it's not really a slasher movie. How would you describe Hellraiser to Amanda? It's in my slasher thing with a question mark

and then I put it in wildcard because I knew that it's not a slasher. This is like... It's a supernatural, demonic, phantasmagoric movie about pain and suffering.

Okay. Aren't they all? Not as bad as... Not like this. It's a movie that's genuinely depraved, made by a sort of openly gay man exploring his fascination with sadomasochism and the boundary between pain and pleasure. Okay. But it has this wonderful ancient mythology built into it.

And the barrier between hell and our world is explored in excruciating detail. It's just one of my favorite movies, and it doesn't fit anywhere else. It's unusually, exceptionally gory, and also beautiful, and really, depraved is the right word. I mean, even by the standards of a horror movie draft, it's this kind of fascinatingly, beautifully ugly movie. It's just a great film. Yeah, I have to pick it.

I'll say as long as we're talking about books, for fans of Hellraiser, the Scarlet Gospels, the sequel that Clive Barker wrote that's a couple years, 10 years old maybe, great, great book. I've never read it.

I just read it last year. It's so good. If you read Hellraiser and you're like, I really wonder what the hierarchy is like in hell and who Pinhead's boss is and how that power struggle works between Pinhead and the other people who run hell.

This entire book is about that. It's great stuff. CR, who else runs hell? Daryl Morey, he runs hell. Who else is on that list? Chase Utley, right? Chase Utley, well, he definitely runs hell. Do you like Hellraiser chris i do i i'm not like a big big barker guy but um i i do like i do like that first one

and it's being uh rebooted right it is yeah new version on hulu which actually will be available for people to watch by the time they hear this podcast although i haven't seen the new one yet um i'm excited yeah I watched the trailer. I was texting with a Hellraiser buddy of mine. It looks good. I hope it's good. It's a Hellraiser movie and it looks fine. First day available, I'm watching it.

Same. Chris, you've got two picks now. Well, so I'll go with Blockbuster. I'm going to take Blair Witch. The Blair Witch Project, which is probably my favorite experience in a movie theater. We talked a little bit about it, but just the exaltation or something. There was something about being in that theater that first

night when I saw it and everybody just kind of having a panic attack leading into, what did we just see? Was that legal? Were we supposed to watch that? When you go back and watch it, it's just a really, really, really well done piece of movie making too.

It still stands up. I watched it last year with a couple of kids. We were like away with another family and we watched it with a couple of kids who were all around like 12, 13, 14. And they started out, they were very like cynical about it. They're like, oh, is this like an old movie?

And by the end, we're like Googling to see if it was real. And like, we're very like caught up by it. So I think it's become, it's become something of a classic. So I'm happy to get that in blockbuster. Wait, what did the kids think?

Oh, they thought it was amazing. It really holds up. It's, it's one of those things that I think we all kind of lost sight of for a while because they just immediately devalued the franchise. And then by 2010, you're thinking that Blair, which sucks. Like I bet that. And then by 2010, you're thinking,

Bed Player Witch sucks. And then you watch it again, and it's like, this movie is incredible. So this being one of the films that you've seen, you know, that final shot, when the guy is staring at the wall, is like, it's in the, certainly the pantheon of most unnerving moments

that I've ever had in a movie theater. Yeah, absolutely. For someone like you, who was that like among this two or three certainly the pantheon of most unnerving moments that I've ever had in a movie theater. Yeah, absolutely. For someone like you, was that like among this two or three only big horror movie in theater experiences you've had?

Like, you must have melted down. I don't think I saw this in theaters, sadly. And that's a little bit just because of age because that's 99, right? Yeah.

So, and rated R and so I wasn't like Chris just sneaking into everything at the age of 12 but I remember watching it at home and like at my mother's house and there are like some trees and like wood like area in the back of the home and I watched it like in the room closest to that and I you know didn't go outside for like two weeks. It's very, very upsetting. You're laughing.

I love the outdoors, Chris. I'm going to pass this picture to you, Amanda. I'm just talking about my backyard. I didn't mention one crucial item. Okay, this is really upsetting. Do you have the little totem? Oh yeah, he does. But I made it myself.

The little twig. It's beautifully structured. I made this myself the year that I rehabbed my backyard. This is really great. You've done great gardening work. And when I hung that up, this was my wife's response. After I'd already put the other statuary there. She goes, people can see this. And that was all she said.

In case people are wondering why Alex is on this episode, this is why. He has an entire... That's really beautiful. You could sell those. Have you thought about that? I think other people have gotten there first. Oh, really? Unlike my other idea, this has been well-trottered.

It's pretty easy to make that. Sure. But I'm just like, you know, set up a booth somewhere, like a flea. Yeah, I'm not really like a selling my twigs craft fair kind of person. You're looking for community and also financial opportunities in the craft space. So start somewhere. Sadly, my plan after that, I was so emboldened

by the success of making this Blair Witch piece that I said, I'm going to make a Wicker Man. Okay. And it turns out, you need a lot, they're huge.

You need a lot more sticks to construct a realistic looking Wicker Man for your bedroom. You also need an ancient cult, I think, to build one. Just putting that out there. I just thought it would be fun.

Chris, you have another pick. Yeah, I do. Blair Witch, that's a there. I just thought it would be fun. Chris you have another pick. Yeah I do. Blair Ritz is a great get man. That's really good. You guys are sticking pretty brand name so far. Even Hellraiser which I'm not really familiar with like plot wise until you shared it with me. I recognize it. Would you recognize Pinhead and say I know

that that is from a movie called Hellraiser? No. But would I recognize it independent of. If you saw Pinhead you'd be like that's a guy from a horror movie Hellraiser? No. But would I recognize it independent of... If you saw Pinhead, you'd be like, that's a guy from a horror movie. Yeah, I know. But, you know, the images do kind of make their way

out of the movies themselves into kind of larger culture. Oh, yeah. No, I know what that is. I thought he just pulled it up. I don't like that. Pinhead? He's very scary.

I don't like that. Even beyond any of the bigger slasher icons, I really think the image of Pinhead on the video box as a kid was more indelible to people.

His head's full of pins. Yeah. Never seen anything like that before. Chris, are you going to heaven or hell? Me? Yeah.

Gosh. I think, honestly, after this podcast, probably hell. Like, once we're done talking about impregnating predators, but... Yeah.

I mean, I'd like to think I lived a pretty good life. So what's your next pick? Are the predators all female? That's a great question. Okay. Yeah. Let's not gender essentialize predators.

Right. That's true. I guess I don't know how that reproductive structure works. Where are you going, Chris? Oh, fantasy. I'm going to do for sequel, I'm going to do Scream 2. Oh, okay.

Interesting. I'm not a huge Scream 2 guy what's what's can you want to make a pitch for it yeah it's the college one so it's also probably the one this is a lot of has a lot of tropes about sequels in it where like there's a lot of metatextual I mean most of Scream is very metatextual and it it's not necessarily like Jean-Luc Godard but it's you know they, like, what happens in sequels in this sequel. I just happen to like this cast a lot and really enjoy the setting. It's pretty

entertaining with Timothy Oliphant, like, as, like, this sort of masquerading, you know, villain in the background. Sorry for spoiling Scream 2 if you didn't know that. Have you seen the other Screams? I'm trying to remember. I don't know if I sought the rest out.

Interesting. I didn't see the most recent. Was it Scream 5? Or no, they rebooted it just as Scream again. It's just Scream, but it is Scream 5.

I quite enjoyed it. So you've just seen the first one and hold it in fair esteem. Yeah. And I mean, and I say the call is coming from inside the house

like all of the time. But that's not where that's from. It's not? Well, that's when I learned it from. But that is a reference to another film. You know what, Sean? We can only be ourselves.

I really don't need you to... But you just identified why I asked you if Scream got you interested in any other kinds of movies. Because it's loaded with lines like that that are from other movies. Right. As is Scream 2. Scream 2, in fact, is like you said, very interesting about the idea of

making another one. Chris, this is your favorite horror sequel no but i i wanted to get a scream movie because those are the movies that i like i watch probably scream like once a year be like around this time and they've been on a lot recently so it's not even necessarily that i would probably put it up over a couple of the other ones that i have on my list but i wanted to have like the diversity of stuff. So your only move there then would have been otherwise to take Scream in wildcard, which you opted not to do. Yes.

Got it. Or Scream must fit in Blockbuster, which he already took. He already took it. What do you think of the sort of the operatic scene in Scream 2 when they're on the stage and it's all the dummies flying and the performance of the ridiculous looking student theater is wailing and the soundtrack's just going crazy. I like it. It's sort of over the top, but I enjoy

it. Do you like these movies after one? I do, yeah. I have all three of them on VHS and we actually re-watched Scream 2 last year on Halloween. We hadn't seen it in a while, but had revisited the first one more. It really is good. I can't really say

anything against it except that scene is unwatchable. The open of this movie is really good. The movie theater is really, really good. This does build,

you know, a lot of these sequels kind of tank the reality of the world by trying to make you think that these killings keep happening. But the way that this

blows up the reality by saying, it's not only that Ghostface keeps happening it's that they've already kind of made a movie about this yes

yeah you're catching up with Stab in Scream 2 and you're like oh that's more interesting than no one found out about this outside of this town

and therefore it can happen again yeah there's a kill in the opening segment of this film in which a guy is in the bathroom

he's in a stall and he puts his ear to the side of the in which a guy is in the bathroom. He's in a stall, and he puts his ear to the side of the stall, and a knife goes through the side. You've probably seen the parody of this with a penis in the glory hole in Scary Movie 1 or 2. Have you seen Scary Movie? I think so, though I've maybe only seen clips of it. Scary Movie, was that out by the time I was in college?

I couldn't say I haven't lived your life. Okay. I mean, you know the general dates, right? I don't know what year it was. I feel like it was like on, you know, so I've seen bits of it here and there.

What scary movie? Like 99? 2000? I think it's 2000. Right, so that's when I was in college. Okay. What do we think

of horror comedies as a rule? I considered making it a category and then felt like it was a little too soft. I would have been so upset if you had. Yeah.

I don't think I could. Honestly, it's not. If someone took Shaun of the Dead, I would just forfeit the category and say I will have one. I don't think there's a single. That's literally what I was going to say is I really like Shaun of the Dead.

I love it. I like some movies that maybe were not necessarily branded as horror comedies, but are like Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2 or Return of the Living Dead. I like those movies a lot. I don't know. Chris, horror comedies, but are like Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2 or Return of the Living Dead. Like I like those movies a lot. I don't know. Chris, horror comedies?

Will you watch them? I'm not a big fan. You just watched one. You were just recommending one to me, weren't you? Yeah, no, it was, I saw Who Invited Them, which is on Shudder.

And it has like elements of like, it's kind of, it's got a little bit of like romantic, not romantic comedy, but it's got like couples comedy. And then it turns into a little bit more of a thriller horror at the end. Okay. I like

some horror comedies. It really just never works for me, except for Shaun of the Dead, which is just as perfect. Would you consider Cabin in the Woods a horror comedy? No. Yeah. Okay. I mean, a horror movie can be funny. Right. Many are. I don't think that Eli Roth's idea on that movie was,

I want to, first and foremost, make a funny movie. Second of all, make a horror movie. And I feel like most horror comedies fail because that's the order of priorities. Right. Instead of a horror filmmaker who has a twisted sense of humor, it's someone who thinks they're funny, who also loves horror movies. Okay. So no horror comedy for you, Chris.

So you've got Scream 2 and Blair Witch, so now we're to Alex. Yeah, I think for Blockbuster, I will take the Amityville Horror. It's just a movie I really love. I actually almost wore an Amityville shirt today. And I was like, if I wear any of these shirts, I'm going to really give myself away and someone's going to want to take it.

I'm glad you didn't bring your Pazuzu statue as well. Well, that lives in as well I actually would have liked this half of it's buried in the ground so it would be very hard it's also buried in hell it's a movie I really love

and a movie I think now has become kind of underrated I'm glad you brought it up and framed it that way I feel similarly you know I grew up on Long Island

I grew up maybe 25-30 minutes away from Amityville and so growing up it maybe didn't have it was from Amityville. And so growing up, it maybe didn't have, it was sort of like ignored. Like I didn't watch it. It didn't go off the checklist when I was a teenager. It was sort of the inverse of feeling close to something because it was so familiar. And then I watched it as an adult and I thought it was quite good. It's actually a big movie, I think for our boss, Bill Simmons. He's a huge fan of the Amityville horror. And we were

just joking about it the other day because there's now like a true crime docuseries coming out about the Amityville house. It's just a word you can apply to anything at this point and I feel like speaking of things that have been diluted or undervalued it's like this is the hardest thing to convince people. Oh no actually the original is kind of amazing. So why? And the sequel I also really love.

The two especially. I don't think I've seen the sequel. Oh see that's a huge blind spot that needs to be filled in oh wow that's that's one of those movies that it's like you know Amityville

makes a hundred million and the sequel makes like five and the sequel's like an Italian essentially like an Italian exploitation movie made by an Italian filmmaker and it's like

here's the story of what happened the night that made this house so evil oh it's like a borderline or a prequel well it is yeah I mean Well, it is, yeah. I mean, it is literally Amityville 2, the beginning, I think it's called.

It's a movie that's much like some of these movies, like Hellraiser, kind of like flirts with actual evil. I just love the movie. I just think it's one of the better movies of that era. The blockbuster category, we should say, it was only like 60 movies. It was not that long. 30 of them are from the last 10 years. Yeah, so what's going on with that?

I don't know. Why are like shitty third films in... I guess that explains kind of the problem with the box office a little bit too. Yeah, I was going to say that's a box office problem. Also inflation. Yeah, I feel like The Nun is like the eighth highest grossing

horror movie. Every Conjuring Universe movie is on this list yeah and those are all fine movies i basically like all of them and have you seen any of those i've seen the first one yeah there you go we found another one first oh yeah you asked me to watch the conjuring when did i yeah and i also saw i've seen halloween and the most recent halloween not that not the one that's coming out in 2022 but the one before because you asked me to Because you asked me to. When you asked me to watch something. I know. You're a very, very

faithful podcast partner. Yeah, I see it. The first Conjuring film, I remember feeling it was quite good. And I liked two as well. The series itself, I think,

is pretty all over the place. At this point, even I've seen everything in it, I couldn't really keep straight of where the nun and the curse of La Llorona comes in. And then sometimes... We watched the most recent one, too. I've seen the entire Conjuring film. thing in it I couldn't really keep straight of where the nun and the curse of La Llorona comes in and then sometimes we watched the most recent one too I've seen the entire conjuring part three

was like an HBO max yeah Annabelle Annabelle Annabelle but then there's like two Annabelle's and sometimes Patrick Wilson and Vera Farmiga will pop up in these movies for like one scene it's this and every one of these movies makes like 75 to 150 million dollars. Yeah. That's pretty remarkable. There's another one. Oh no, I'm thinking of Insidious.

The Patrick Wilson directed fifth Insidious film is coming out next year. That's for Patrick Wilson. Yeah, I'm pleased for him. Anyway, Amityville,

I love it and I feel like I'm always trying to stick up for it now because it's just, yeah, people are like, what,

there's like 100 of those. Vulture does a list of like, here's the 40 dumbest Amityville spinoffs. Like, Amityville dildo is number one. And it's just yeah people are like what there's like 100 of those vulture does a list of like here's the 40 dumbest amityville spinoffs like amityville dildo is number one and it's like the original is kind of amazing like it's really very similar to what we said about texas chainsaw massacre the drop off between the first one which is inimitable and then the other 30 things that have those words in it it's steep it's a really it's a really solid movie that I think some people

really just ignore now I'm gonna spend my flight back to Los Angeles watching Amityville 2 that's my plan that's gonna be awesome for your seat mate

yeah watch it on a nice you know watch it on your couch at your comfort that's true that would probably be nicer but that would be inefficient

you know I'm trying to just make the most out of all the time I have on this earth see as many of the films are you going to draft the film the horror film But that would be inefficient. You know, I'm trying to just make the most out of all the time I have on this earth. See as many of the films. Are you going to draft the film, the horror film that you watched in the hospital after the birth of your child? No, but I'm glad you brought it up because someone on Twitter made like a recent, like what are the best horror movies of the 20s?

And I do think that The Night House is one of them. Oh, the 20s we're in right now. The 2020s, not the 1920s. Although I had a whole other thought about that because my little sister, Grace, who's been on the show before, is in college and is studying. She's in film classes. She's in a theory class and a history class.

I was telling you about this, Amanda. And so she's watching a lot of films and she had a double feature of Nosferatu in the cabinet of Dr. Caligari. And she was like, dog, what the fuck? Like, this is not good. Like they're not good? They're not good or it's not good? She was just like, I was so bored. And I was like, what the fuck like this is not good um like they're not good they're not good or it's not good she was just like I was so bored and I was like I get it I was a little

bored when I watched these films too but here's why they're important and then went into like weird dad film professor mode which is unfortunate but um I I didn't think about drafting anything from that far back for this category but I wonder if you would be frustrated with me if I took, and I'm going to take, Rosemary's Baby in classical era pre-1970. I mean, you know, I could have taken that first, but I took Psycho, which also would fit in that category.

Rosemary's Baby, obviously. It stayed on the board for this long. Was that on the blockbuster list? It has to have been. I don't, I don't think it made 75. Yeah, I don't think it crossed 75 either, which is interesting that's wild

because it was very popular but it was not a craze in quite the same way that something like The Exorcist was it's also it's late 60s

so even the idea of like a horror craze is fairly limited there's only a handful of Psycho being maybe the only exception to that so

anyway Rosemary's Baby made 33.4 million at the box office. There you go. So, your ranking is unadjusted when you say 75. Unadjusted, yes.

We do not account for inflation, which is perhaps a faulty metric when we're going back this far. Because that, I mean, what does that adjust it? That's got to be like 150. I don't know. Bobby, do you want to do

some real-time math? Well, Chris is the big Janet Yellen guy, so. Like, Poltergeist on your list was like $74.9 million. I noticed that. like poltergeist on your list was like 74.9 million I noticed that I enjoyed that but I was like is that what's the adjustment here I don't know I fucking love poltergeist though it's a great movie another movie I revisited I got to catch a print of that four or five years ago and it really was a lot of fun to sit in the theater it's a heater

it's a really fun have you seen that one I don't think so I would recommend that even though it's absolutely horrifying it's okay it's. It's because it also starts out it's like a family they've bought a new home they've moved into the suburbs they're starting a new life and a new job. You're speaking Amanda's language.

I do feel like that's like a third of all horror movies. And I like. Bobby has the answer. Yeah. It would have made $284 million

at the box office. I mean it's the fact that that's ineligible because it didn't make $75 in 68. Well it's kind of kind of wrong. Gotta mean, it's the fact that that's ineligible because it didn't make 75 in 68. Well, it's kind of wrong. Gotta have parameters here on the show. My wife's arachnophobia story is Poltergeist 3.

Oh, wow. She saw that when she was like five. Yes. Actually, this was a topic of conversation when Edgar Wright was on the show because he used some of the mirror effects. He borrowed some of them for his movie last night in Soho and he was so blown away by them. It's a great movie. I had never seen that one. Poltergeist 3

it's weird that I've seen Poltergeist 3 but not Amityville Horror 2 but that's the thing with horror. It's like it is bottomless. Sometimes you just didn't catch the right marathon

on TV. It's true. That's a you know you can't argue with you taking that. No. I mean it's annoying

but I you know I've had three picks already. I could have You could have had it. I just have some other fun stuff for that category

that I kind of insisted upon well with that in mind I'm just gonna keep being annoying and take another obvious movie that I really want

which is in Wild Card I'm taking The Shining oh yeah this is good it's another one where that only fits there this is why I'm taking it here

this is why I'm extending into Wild Card in the fourth round because where else can you put The Shining, right? It's not a blockbuster. It's not.

Is it a slasher? I guess. Absolutely not. No? That's ludicrous. I mean, it is in that people get killed with an axe and so forth in it. But much like Hellraiser,

I mean, you could make the argument that it is technically a slasher, but it breaks every parameter of what a slasher is. It does come after the modern slasher is invented though is it inspired at all did did kubrick see halloween do we know that we don't chris have you spoken about this this turned into your absurd fan fiction so fast actually it didn't really podcast no i know i was like we're like 80 minutes in. So that was very restrained. Thank you.

In the scheme of things. Chris, do you think Kubrick saw Halloween? Yeah. I think he's a... Wasn't he a pretty voracious watcher of movies? How could you not? I don't know. How is Halloween distributed in England in 1978 or 9?

But wouldn't he be like, I got a print sent to me? Like I just wrote... Maybe, but that was an independent movie. This is such a granular conversation. Yeah, it is. It's like, this is like when Costanza is trying to prove that the ginger ale at the coffee shop is 7-Up mixed with Sprite. Damn, I can't prove that. You're like, I guess Cooper could have gotten a print.

No, it was an independent movie. He wouldn't have the contacts. He wouldn't know who to call to get that print shipped to him. Welcome to podcasting. The Shining is a wonderful film. It's Stanley Kubrick's adaptation of Stephen King's smash novel, which Stephen King, of course, did not appreciate as an adaptation, but is absolutely thrilling to this day.

Very similar to a lot of the other movies we've talked about. I'm trying to take movies that I have a big relationship to. If it wasn't a bomb, it would have been a great pick for Blockbuster. Yeah. Was it officially a bomb? I just think by standards of the time. Yeah, I guess for a Jack Nicholson movie directed by Kubrick, it was a bomb. Bobby's got some answers.

It made $47.3 million at the box office. So adjusted, that's like a mere $200. Right. Yeah. That's just Conjuring 3. Yeah. Sad. Okay. Wait, can i say something yes of course you've seen the shining i and i like the shining so maybe it should be disqualified but i do just want to point out because we've had a lot of picks at this point that i probably sean here's your list so far ha The Exorcist Rosemary's Baby and The Shining

yeah I could have drafted that so I just want to let you know if you were invited you could have drafted anything but unfortunately you were not well I'm just saying you want to bring the edge

you want to bring your like expansive horror knowledge or do you just want to and you've seen Blair Witch and maybe Scream 2 you think or maybe not I think I've seen I don't know if I've seen Scream 2 but yes and you've seen Psycho and maybe not i think i've seen i don't know if i've seen scream

2 but yes and you've seen psycho and i've of course i've seen psycho so you've seen i've seen halloween you've seen i've seen most of these two thirds of what i did direct that to sean um i think it's more because sean took such a normie movie in his wild wild card i did i did you're calling the shining normie for sake, purposes of this conversation? Yeah. Yeah. I don't need you to be Sean right now. Okay?

Like, I need you to just keep your spirit of weird generosity. Okay? Okay. Okay. There's still two categories left for me, and they are the two kind of quote unquote most challenging categories. Yeah. I'm just saying let's bring it a little bit.

I would challenge all of you. I basically lost track of whose turn it is or what. It is your turn. What's happening here is that Amanda senses an imminent victory for me and she's trying to undermine it

by getting me to take something weird, which I'm way ahead of her on this. This stuff doesn't work anymore for me. But again, her point is valid. You have picked a very easy to vote for a couple of movies. Absolutely. It's called winning the draft, Alex. And these are also totemic movies in your life so there's there's no i

haven't taken anything that i don't love so it's my it's back to me so we have i so i have not done sequel classical or foreign yes geez we're only halfway there it's not it's not good news for my timing uh we can go quickly no i mean what mean, what would be the fun of that? Jeez, I don't even know. I guess for Legacy sequel, I'll take Dawn of the Dead, which has remained on the table and feels sort of like,

like I also on this, I, you know, it's like, what's my favorite Halloween sequel? What's my favorite Friday 13 sequel? But I just couldn't, I could also say Day of the Dead, which I probably on any given day prefer,

but just because, you know, Dawn of the Dead is like 135 minutes long it is long it's quite a commitment Day of the Dead I think is a lean 90 minutes you're referring to the original Dawn of the Dead not the Zack Snyder remake no no the the remake you are no as long as that might be my favorite Snyder movie it's I would say that's a very good answer for anyone who would ask that. Yes. I rewatched that a couple of times in the last decade.

I like it. It's always a good rewatch. Derek Paul is great in that. Yeah. I just feel like I should take this. It was number one on my list for a sequel. I mean, we've all kind of left this baffling category,

but I think on any random list of like, what is the best horror sequel ever? I feel like 9 out of 10 people would just say this. Agree. A sprawling depiction of the grotesqueries of capitalist society with just great zombie effects. Do you have, as a collector, did you get that big Arrow video Dawn of the Dead box set that comes with a book?

No. And if you try to get it online now, it's like $95. Well, it was like $75 when it came out. Yeah, it's very frustrating. I actually don't own Dawn of the Dead on any physical media. So I got that box set for two reasons. One, I wanted the Argento cut that I'd never seen, which I still haven't watched. And then two, my last year during Halloween season, my wife looked at my pile of horror books,

which contains, like I said, some William Peter Blatty, whatever else I just read, The Scarlet Gospels. And she goes, what is this Dawn of the Dead book? She opens it up and she goes, you're reading a Dawn of the Dead novelization? And I said, well, it came in the box set. I want to read it. I remember they sold it in a big plastic clamshell when I was in high school. And that's what I owned.

Do you remember this? That's an Anchor Bay clamshell. Anchor Bay, yes. Do you remember this? A big, fat, shiny clamshell. That was the VHS that I had as a kid. I don't even know where that is. It's probably buried underneath my mom's house. That's aor Bay, yes. You remember this? A big, fat, shiny clam show. That was the VHS that I had as a kid. I don't even know where that is.

It's probably buried underneath my mom's house. That's a good looking, yeah. But that's one of those movies that there's got to be over 100 releases of it, or at least close to. And it has shifted hands many times over the years. It's a great movie. I'm glad that I took it. In 100 meters, turn right. Actually, no. Turn left.

There's some awesome new breakfast wraps at McDonald's. Really? Yeah. There's the sausage bacon and egg a crispy seasoned chicken one mmm a spicy end egg worth the detour they sound amazing that they taste amazing too wish i had a mouth take your morning into a delicious new direction with mcdonald's new breakfast wraps add a small premium roast coffee for a dollar plus tax at participating mc participating McDonald's restaurants.

Ba-da-ba-ba-ba. CR, you got two picks, brother. Okay. For foreign language, I'm going to go with Wreck. Okay. No idea what this is. I felt that you would take this, Chris. Great.

I mean, a great pick. Yeah, this, one of the great contagion and slash zombie quarantine movies. It's a Spanish. It's, it was like a, it's essentially a found footage film. It's a journalist is stuck in an apartment building where there's

an outbreak of some sort happening. And it is just like, it's so fucking good. Um, I, I really liked this movie. This is another one. I've not seen any of

the sequels, but I feel like this movie is one of the I've not seen any of the sequels but I feel like this movie is one of the most ripped off movies of the 21st century we my wife loves this movie

not only have we watched this movie I think three times since it came out we have seen every every sequel up to the wedding like yeah I mean the couple of years

where I was like Anna are you ready there's a new Rex sequel and I couldn't tell you about it until the day it was available

because you wouldn't be able to live your life knowing that you had to wait for it it's like a kid when you're taking them to Disney World

it's like you have to tell them that day if you tell them a week before they will refuse to go to school I was like Anna the rec sequel

is out today they were all I mean the first one is so good it is really really good speaking of Blair Witch like endings the final reveal of what's going on up in that,

I mean, it's just like, you're watching it, it's a great found footage movie, the tension is hot, and then the end you're like, I have to rewatch this again immediately. The thing about that movie is, I didn't see it in theaters, and I wish I had because there's obviously this big, incredible sequence near the end of the film where the screen just goes entirely black.

And so if you're in a movie theater surrounded by people and the screen goes black for an extended period of time that's one of the most upsetting things that you can people start laughing they start just their nervous tension overtakes the room um you you should should amanda watch this chris no definitely i mean this is upsetting this is like a movie that is tense and upsetting in a blair witch found footage way, but then it sticks to landing. I don't think Amanda can rock with a lot of the found footage that we watch now,

because I just think it's basically made to give the viewer a stroke, essentially. It's just so intense. That's a great pick in foreign language. And even the moment in the first 10 minutes when the story turns and you realize something is very wrong, it's really, really upsetting. But in the way that I said, is Scream 2 actually your favorite horror sequel?

You could honestly say this is one's favorite foreign horror film. Yeah. Scream 2 was in some ways more, I don't know, I want to have a diverse list. This is legit. I watch this probably once every two or three years. It's so good. The whole franchise is pretty great. I mean, the second one picks up immediately. It's one of those, it's like Halloween too. It's like the next minute. And then, you know, I don't really remember the others.

The one at the wedding is fun, but clearly the perfection of this is spent. You watch the US remakes, Chris? I think I saw one of the, who starred in that? Is that Jennifer Carpenter? Like, who's in that? No, you're thinking of Dark Water. You're getting your remakes.

The US remakes, yeah. Dark Water, yeah. I'm not sure. I'm not sure who stars in it. Well, here I am for Wild Card, Sean. Definitely Quarantine. It is Jennifer Carpenter. Wow.

Did you say Carpenter or Connelly? Carpenter. Oh, so I was wrong. I misheard. I thought you said Connelly. And it is called Quarantine. It came out in 2008. Wow. Did you say Carpenter or Connelly? Carpenter. Oh, so I was wrong. I misheard. I thought you said Connelly. And it is called Quarantine. It came out in 2008. And then there's like a Quarantine 2,

Quarantine on a Plane. Yep, like Snakes on a Plane. Quarantine Harder, yeah. It's just full of quarantines. But it's funny to remake something. Basically, they remade it shot for shot. And then they do a sequel, but the sequel has nothing to do

with the remakes to the original. It's always funny when they do that. So confusing. Okay, Chris, One more pick. Curious about whether or not this brings the rules committee out at all. But for Wildcard, I'm going to take the thing.

Kind of thought that that would happen. That was on my list. Mine too. I think it qualifies. I think it's more of a monster movie than a sci-fi movie. So that's why I allowed it, even though it's got a UFO. I think this is, unlike my nitpicking on Alien, I mean, this is undeniably one of the top five horror films of all time. Yeah.

By any, no one would say The Thing is a sci-fi film. The Thing wouldn't rent in sci-fi. Would you say that the original Christian Nyby film is a sci-fi film? No, that's horror by that era's standards. Okay. Okay. The lines were pretty blurred in the Atomic Age, as we all know. I'm not debating. My feelings on the thing are on the record. So wait, we've all taken a wild card,

right? So now, the things I had in wild card that I felt could not be taken anywhere else were The Thing, Hellraiser, The Shining, and The Fly. Oh, The Fly. That didn't even occur to me. Which could not fit. There's not a single other category for any of those. And those I felt like were the ones that had to be on my list for Wild Card,

even though those are like four of the top 10 greatest horror movies of all time. So we did great. We got three of the four on your list. Yeah. I would say that that was well-navigated then, right? But I'm almost disappointed because I feel like Wild Card is often the place where you celebrate the stuff that's a little bit less well known you know and obviously we wind up picking some pretty big movies here there there's a bunch that i'm just like oh i guess i'm just not gonna pick this but there's more love i mean i got two more weeks

to go i guess i do too this also sort of happened in the 80s comedy draft when you're doing something with such a breadth of options i got like fletch in wild wildcard. Yeah, I got Ghostbusters in wildcard. Yeah. Sean's still mad. You guys got your asses handed to you in that draft. I really did. You lost the vote and also spiritually you tried to make it seem like I was losing. I found that that vote was bizarre. I feel like you brought this up, but

could you or would you for the non Twitter users just at the beginning of some episodes be like, by the way, here are the results of the draft. Yeah, we're probably, here are the results of the draft. Yeah, we're probably to be a little bit more formal and communicative.

But then, you know, I don't really acknowledge the Twitter vote. I don't feel that to be... You don't acknowledge the Twitter votes,

but you did notice that I got my ass kicked. Yeah, I did. But it's just kind of like when we have to like ratify the election or whatever and then they make

a lot of Jan 6 jokes and so I just kind of like don't want to get into that space. I just, I get so invested enjoying these draft episodes and then I just lose track of who could have won I guess I'll have to look to see in the arc of time I'm winning let's just keep it at that I see you want accumulative votes over time well wow that that's something we could do who has garnered the most votes across two years or you want to tabulate you have 11 victories. You have 10. Chris has

20. I don't keep track of that, but I will say that there are invested and interested listeners who do that. There's a running document that kind of goes through the drafts themselves and keeps some stats. I'm curious about what the voter turnout is like. We could

probably use a independent wikia. A comptroller. Like a wikia, you know, like something that manages all of the results and the history of the drafts

and maybe some of the other shows. That's not something that we're doing a very good job of here because it takes a lot of work. Well, Bobby looks eager to jump on that. Yeah.

That's a lot of math. Among other things. That raises the question of do we need to throw out that one draft where we were allowed to submit via Google because that was completely manipulated with people voting five times?

Yes. For Chris. Mostly, yes. Well, is it Chris's turn now, speaking of... No, I just got those two, so it's you, Alex. It's back to me. You did Wreck, and prior to that, you did The Thing. The Thing.

Yeah, which is an obvious pick. I... Jeez. I, jeez, I feel like for foreign language or British, I'm very, this is weirdly, I'm very torn

because there's a thousand options here. And I feel like I keep hemming and hawing on two. This is a place where you could make a bold recommendation

to the listeners if you wanted. None of these are that bold. Because I don't think anyone's going to take my classical era pick at this point. But I think I will take, just for sheer... I mean, this is just an incredible movie, 28 Days Later. Oh, interesting.

I think this has to be my pick. And I'm picking this over some great Italian horror movies that I love. Yeah. Picking this over... No one else has picked this category, right? Not yet. Okay, so whatever. some great Italian horror movies that I love. Yeah. Picking this over some, I guess I'll, no one else has picked this category, right? Not yet. Okay, so I'll,

whatever, we'll come back to this. But I'm just looking at this and I'm like, that movie is just so good. It felt revolutionary when we saw it too, right? Yeah, the digital video element of that,

like it's one of those things where every three movies Danny Boyle just hits an absolute knockout. And this movie's great. Have you seen this? This was a big deal. I think so.

I wouldn't have thought of this as... It's just such a British movie. Yeah, I guess so. This is hard. This is... Pure zombie movie. Are you thinking of the Sandra Bullock movie?

No, I mean, I was. I, like... Yeah, okay. That is a wrong movie to me. The Sandra Bullock rehab movie? I think that zombies, I just put in, like, a different category.

Fair enough. Okay. You know, and so I don't want to. Meaning you can deal with that? No, but they don't scare me. I'm just kind of like annoyed at some point. Oh, you're annoyed. Okay.

Yeah. It's not really my bag, but. This was just the first time that the idea of being a zombie was linked to actually just being sick. I mean, not literally the first time because that is the plot of Day of the Dead, but the sort of spread of virality in this movie. Yes. that is the plot of Day of the Dead, but the sort of spread of virality in this movie, it's basically like, you know, the sequel to a very realistic pandemic movie. And it's just so...

I mean, this movie is just like absolutely balls to the wall. Refresh my memory. In this one, is this the one where the blood droplet falls into Brendan Gleeson's eyeball? That's Brendan Gleeson's like, that's the greatest... The premise of this is that they're not necessarily zombies they're just infected

with a rage virus right but the fast zombies typically zombies lumber very slowly and this now this movie asks what if they ran

fast and what if they were mad instead of stupid and then people were like I don't know a hundred million dollars it looks like yeah

makes perfect sense like one of the biggest British films and all time. And then what if Christopher Eccleston was a little too excited about restarting society? Chris, was this what you had back-pocketed for Foreign Language or British? No, I'm just really glad it got drafted.

I had it in, I think I had it, was it in Blockbuster? Was this Blockbuster eligible? I don't think it was. I don't think so. Might have been on the cusp. I don't think, this was a hit, but I don't think it was. I don't think so. It might have been on the cusp. I don't think... This was a hit, but I don't think it made 75. Okay.

Well, I definitely had it... Oh, I thought it did. I must have looked at Worldwide Box. Yeah, it made 85.7 worldwide. Worldwide. Ah, okay. Yeah, my bad. Yeah, it was a huge hit in England.

So I imagine that's a little even more disproportionate than usual. Great movie. Again, like, we'll talk about my other faults for this, but... Yeah, once we've... Foreign is tricky. It is tricky. Okay.

Well, here's a question for you both. I'm not going to draft this, but I want to ask this question, and I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to put it out there. Is Silence of the Lambs a sequel? No. Oh, that's? No. Oh, that's, no.

I'm not drafting it. But I know exactly why you're asking. Yes. I mean, there's a film that precedes it in which the character appears previously.

No, they're different studios, right? That was the whole thing was that the rights to that book were and remain separate. Okay. No one was like,

yeah, it's kind of like a soft reboot of the Manhunter franchise. No. But that is like, absolutely's kind of like a soft reboot of the Manhunter franchise. But that is absolutely how it would be positioned today. Well today it

would be like we need to sign Brian Cox up for a five picture deal because this book already has sequels. But we just didn't have that vernacular.

I don't think anyone has ever referred to Silence of the Lambs as a sequel. Chris what do you think? I don't think so. I think it's

I think they're like it's weirdly like separate from Manhunter to me. Okay secondarily is Silence of the Lambs a horror movie? I don't think so. I think it's weirdly separate from Manhunter to me. Okay, secondarily, is Silence of the Lambs a horror movie? I was going to ask that. I almost don't think it is. I wouldn't have said so. You haven't done a blockbuster yet.

No, I have. I would only be able to take it in legacy or sequel. And I wouldn't take it in sequel, but it's an interesting point of contention. You know, we rewatched that within the last two months after a long time of wanting to. I mean, it's one of the greatest movies of all time. Yeah. It really doesn't. I mean, it's a serial killer movie.

So how do you appraise serial killer movies? All your slasher guys are serial killers, but it's a detective movie. It's a psychological. Yeah. I think most people would have described the novel, the Thomas Harris novel, as a horror novel. Well. See, I would say the opposite.

I would say most people would. The novel is very procedural. It's really like, how do we catch a killer? Yeah, but there is something very explicit about. But I think that if you're using that logic, you could then pull most thrillers into horror. You know? Okay.

Now you're drafting The Bone Collector. Well, you are. Yeah. I'm not. Now you're drafting Taking Lives. It's funny that you cite The Bone Collector because I did actually rewatch that film a couple years ago for, I believe, a Denzel Washington episode. That's why we rewatched it a couple years ago, too. Not for your episode, but just because we were doing a lot of Denzels during the pandemic.

It's deeply bad. Yeah, it's horrible. Yeah. Truly bad movie. You seen The Bone Collector, Chris? I just like, I think that's a great nickname for people.

Yeah. That's what they called you in high school. But like, so here's a question to answer your Silence of the Lambs query. Is Seven a horror movie?

I think it's very similar to Silence of the Lambs in that it uses the tonality of a horror movie without explicitly being Right, but I think the's very similar to Silence of the Lambs in that it uses the tonality of a horror movie without explicitly being horror. Right, but I think the answer is... But that's... There it is. Obviously, Seven is not a horror movie.

Yes, okay. I'm good with it. I just feel like that's kind of where the line is. I mean, the reason that I don't like horror movies, despite you guys being like, well, there's a couple in the Airbnb or he's's an ambassador or whatever it's because then it becomes like it becomes a horror movie you know like the explicitness is the actual and yet thing the definition when you see science of the lambs or seven does it affect you in the way that a good horror movie affects horror fans you're like this is creepy this really like it gets under my skin it's icky yeah it absolutely has that effect but i don't i mean i guess i don't really know what else a horror fan is experiencing but you know that that's more my point is like

they're great horror movies for people that don't like horror movies because you can follow the cops and the detectives for us watching it on halloween you're not firing up silence of the lambs okay so i won't take silence of the lambs, but I will take Evil Dead 2, which is actually technically not really even a sequel. I mean, that's an appalling sentence. I mean, just such a silly sentence. Well, it's just a retelling of the same film. It's really not.

I rewatched both of those when Blank Check did Sam Raimi. It's really, that's always what people say. You watch them, they're just, it's not really a retelling at all it's a redefining of the original story from the first film though I mean obviously like

the way that it's executed is completely different the Ash character is completely different but all the other characters are different too they are but it's just like okay

Ash shows up to this house and the Necronomicon is there to torture him like that's really what happens and it's funnier it's funnier than the first film. It's an incredible feat of filmmaking. It's come up many times on this show.

I had conflated the first two. One of my scorching hot takes is that I don't like these movies at all. You can sit here and listen to me talk about horror for hours and hours. I find these movies, they're just the exact not my thing. I completely agree with you.

That's appalling. You hear that? Wow. That's appalling. Wow. That's appalling. The first one went up a little bit in my esteem because I had conflated it into the kind of doofiness of the second one. It's more horror.

Yeah, I had really misremembered what that movie's vibe was. And I actually enjoyed it more than I thought. But man, that is where I'm done with the franchise. Well, you don't like horror comedy. So that explains it. And this is sort of the urtext of me not liking horror comedy,

I realized while rewatching them. I do think that this movie splits the atom on horror comedy into making a film that is simultaneously a comedy and a horror movie, which is there's a difference between those two things.

Like, isn't the scary part funny is what most horror comedies do. This is both things at the same time. And I think it's like, I've made you a cake. You want me to separate it back into flour and sugar?'s like now you just have a big old mess like no it doesn't taste like it doesn't taste like anything anymore funny you should say that uh we're we're working with deconstructed foods for my daughter right now it's going over great we used to make

pancakes and now we've got all these different ingredients it's going well pancakes are critical they're not going anywhere but the deconstruction is going great. Banana pancakes on the menu every day. Same. Us too. Is the upside of deconstructing the food to like find out what stuff she likes and doesn't like? In part. Also just to change it up every once in a while so that we don't literally eat 40,000 pancakes before we're two years old.

When you're deconstructing a pancake, okay, so, like, you're just giving her a cup of flour? Like, what's going on? usually when we serve her pancakes, it's like, it's with yogurt, and it's with fruit,

and all this stuff. And so, like, we're taking all those things, and separating them out. Okay, so just like banana, instead of banana pancake.

Exactly. Our daughter's bit, is that she'll eat five banana pancakes a day, and won't eat a banana. Okay. Yeah. She hates bananas. This is why we're deconstructed.

That's my point. If you hit her banana she'll throw it on the ground. And then you mash it up and fry it with coconut oil and she'll eat them constantly. Yeah. She doesn't know.

That's beautiful. A valid pick. I would never yeah I mean not my thing. I hope someone would take that just for the sake of it but Evil Dead 2 was the

was in the 1987 draft right? Isn't that what Hotline was like his first pick. Right? And that was like the sake of it but evil dead 2 was the was in the 1987 draft right isn't that what hotly hotly right away right and that was like one of the three or four that's like it's just it's just i mean to me it's like that's a gen x thing i wasn't there for it when i saw it i was like oh here we go one of the greatest horror films of all time and i just watched it shaking my head when i was a teenager you know this because we've talked about this that when Quentin and Co hard recommended a movie when we were teenagers,

I raced out to check it out. So did I. And this is one of those movies and you didn't like it and I did. You know, those guys aren't right about everything.

Oh, wow. Sounds like maybe you should join him for the next draft. Count me in. Okay. I mean, no one's right about everything.

That's true. That's true. Look at Amanda's whole career. Okay. Sometimes you guys will go on about some great new streaming movie and I don't like it that much. Of course.

Taste is taste, but Evil Dead 2 is great. That's my feeling about it. Okay, I have another pick. The most important foreign horror movie to me is Deep Red, which I've talked about before. Dario Argento's, I think, masterpiece. It's also known as Profundo Rosso. it's one of the

greatest slashers ever made it's a deeply deeply deeply upsetting movie that I saw at the perfect time of my life

I think I've talked about it before I definitely wrote a piece about it once upon a time about being shown this movie by a friend in a double feature

with Bloodsucking Freaks you've seen Bloodsucking Freaks I'm sure you rented it at Kim's many times where did you write this? probably about where I saw it I wrote a piece about

like the Freakout movie probably three or four years ago. And thanks for reading my work, Chris. No, but like, was it in Cahiers du Cinema? Like where, like was it on the ringer?

It was on the ringer.com. Okay. And it's the movie that introduced me to the world of horror as opposed to the very narrow kind of scream and Blair Witch version of horror that I was experiencing. And this kid was an older kid who had every VHS of every Italian and German and English horror movie. He was really into Hammer.

Who was this kid? His name is Ben. He was a good friend of mine. But Ben was just like, how old was Ben when he was collecting VHS of German horror? He was really into VHS and he was really into independent and second tier wrestling promotions. Wow. So are you Ben?

Did you just silence him? Is this one of those situations where you stole his whole flow and became famous off of it? He just has a desk job somewhere? No, he's a professor. He's a very smart guy. He was way smarter than me, but he helped me figure out how to think and talk about movies.

But I didn't have an older brother. And so I always sought older brother figures who could teach me about things. And he taught me a lot about horror movies and taught me a lot about Argento. And I was an insane Argento fan

when I was like 1920. But Deep Red is, it's masterful. There's a new fucking Dario Argento movie coming to Shudder today I've heard about that

this episode is airing October 14th I think and I think it's out today which is just remarkable because he's like 90 years old still making movies I don't think he's that old

okay he's 77 years old wow you just got deaconed yeah he's 82 okay just turned 82 I will say just like Sir Ridley

that is remarkable it's not like his last couple of movies really lit the world on fire they haven't been very good I'm I will watch all of them did you do Dracula 3D on the rewatchables

we did not we did not cover that one I did watch it though and I didn't think it was very good unfortunately I do feel like he does I don't think I've liked one since Stendhal Syndrome

I do feel like he has that like the potential for that kind of Schrader comeback in him to just be like, this is everything we like about him, but he's doing it now as an old man. Maybe this is his first reform. Who knows? Exactly. I'm rooting for it.

Happy birthday and congratulations on the new movie, Dario Argento. You would not like Deep Red, Amanda. You would not. Is there an Argento movie Amanda would like? I think Suspiria is worth visiting. Did you see the remake of Suspiria? I didn't because I just... I mean, that movie's gross.

Yeah, I don't know why he needed to go to the body horror portion of his career. Chris, did you watch that one? The remake of Suspiria? I did. I'm kind of surprised

that Luca is such a body horror guy. It's strange. Let's go back to, you know, Italy and chocolate mousse cups. He does one-on-one off. I guess so. I know we're short for time,

but I just wanted to ask this question because I was thinking about it today when I was driving in because of this Luca Guadagnino movie coming out, like the bones and all. And I don't like cannibalism. I don't know why. It's just the one horror thing that I'm like,

that's a pass for me. Alex, do you have a no-go zone when it comes to horror? Other than comedy? Yeah. I'm like, that's a pass for me. Alex, do you have a no-go zone when it comes to horror? Other than comedy? Yeah. I will say, Cannibal Holocaust was on my list for foreign. Okay. Something I...

No, I don't really think there's anything that I would just inherently be disinterested in. Sean? You're saying you don't have the interest or it freaks you out too much? I think it's a combination. I rarely am like, this is great. I love watching someone feasting on another person or whatever.

The zombie part is fine if it's just in passing. But when it is like we've been building up to this moment where someone is going to be eaten by another human for some reason, I guess that's almost so terrifying. I don't find it scary. I don't know. What about a survival movie, like a real movie

where that happens? Like Alive, which I love. Alive or, you know, sometimes this happens in like a war movie where people are, you know,

or like a pirate movie sometimes on a ship. What about that? When you see that, does that hit the scene? I don't mind that. I just don't like, I don't like self-identifying

cannibals. Okay. Okay. So you won't be seeing don't like self-identifying cannibals. Okay. Okay. So you won't be seeing Bones and All is what you're saying? I don't think so. I saw it.

I thought it was very effective. I just feel like the cannibal idea toes the line in a way that most horror doesn't between things that are real and things that aren't.

Because it seems plausible? Well, it has happened in the real world which being a zombie has not to the best of my knowledge. There's a Jeffrey Dahmer moment happening right now because of the streaming netflix yeah i feel like it's it's so real that it occupies a very different space than but so does so does you know killers go on rampages all the time it's true but yeah i don't

know it's really nothing that i'm like that's not my kind of thing i mean can i say ya horror like i don't that's not really the same thing yeah even that i'll make some time for there's not my kind of thing. I mean, can I say YA horror? Like, I don't, that's not really the same thing. Yeah, even that I'll make some time for. There's not really anything off limits for me. I will say it took me adulthood to really get into ghost stories. That isn't something that I- It's a good ghost movie. I mean, this is again, like some of the classical stuff we have in our talk about like, you know, an old great fiction about this kind of thing.

But that's the thing is I liked reading ghost stories, but seeing them on screen it's much harder to render that effectively. We all did Blockbuster, right? We did. So The Others was on the list which is a great movie.

It is. That's a great pick. Could have been a great pick. You seen that one? No, I don't think so. You didn't see The Others? I don't think so. Nicole Kidman?

No, I didn't see it. Incredible twist ending. Nicole Kidman in 2001 you didn't see The Others? No, I was too busy re-watching The Hours, man. I think Hours came later. I thought that was it.

You were too busy watching Moulin Rouge. Hours is hot trash compared to the others. I agree with it. I just like that. Isn't the others the same year as Moulin Rouge? Aren't they both 01? I would have said that that. I think they're like summer and fall 01.

Okay, well, I did also. Moulin Rouge was also hugely important. Kidman at that moment. Yeah, and it was like, you know, post Tom Cruise. That is a great movie. I didn't get there. A really, really good stately movie. A lot of ghost movies are good.

And that's what I like about the haunting shows on Netflix, The Blind Manor and Hill House. Like, those are really good ghost stories. Yeah, Chris, you dig those too. The Flanagan shows. Those are good ghost stories. Yeah, I like those. What remains here to be done?

I've completely lost track. I think you are missing classical. I am that, but is that it? I think so, right? Oh, okay lost track. I think you are missing classical. I am that, but is that it? I think so, right? Oh, okay. Yeah, I think these are the last picks. Okay, so it's my turn for classical? It's your pick.

And then it ends with Chris, who we started with. Correct. I'll take Freaks. Oh, Todd Browning. Yeah, this was a weird category. You took Rosemary's Baby, which is just under the cutoff. I took Psycho for myself. Part of taking 28 Days Later is that otherwise everything I have is

before the 80s, so it was fun to have a modern one. We rewatched Freaks last year. That is not a movie made by well people. And it's really, you know, my wife, she'd never seen it. We watched it on Halloween. It's an hour easy to slot in. And she was like, this isn't really a horror movie. I mean, this is just kind of like a sad movie about these tragic, lonely carnival people. But it's a horror movie of its time. And yeah, beyond any like 40s, 50s, ghost Vincent Price things, like I would just take this as my,

this is really like kind of the true wild card since Hellraiser is less of a wild card. But Todd Browning's Freaks, is it 31 or is it 32? I think it's 31, yeah. Resonates to this day. I was in the doctor's office with my daughter and we were watching it. There's a TV screen in the doctor's

office. Where's this going? Can anyone imagine? Toy Story was playing on the screen. That's not what I thought you were going to say. And there's a huge homage to Freaks in Toy Story. The one of us, all the little green. And the reimagined, the sort of like rebuilt, reconstructed toys in Sid's house is also like an homage to Freaks. It's just a genuinely bizarre, I mean,

a lot of Tal Browning movies are like that. The Unknown as well. I think London by Night he did as well. He made some pretty spooky movies in the 30s. I mean,

Dracula, of course. Yeah, of course. It's true. I didn't even mention his most, I guess,

second most famous movie after Freaks, maybe by this point. Freaks is just a real, I mean, there's nothing else like it. And it's almost a movie that feels like it should have been banned, and it was intermittently banned, but it almost feels like something that shouldn't be on HBO Max. I was wondering if my little sister actually will be asked to watch this in film class. I

definitely saw it in film school. You'll give it to her for extracurricular. Yeah, I was going to say, is there like a submission card for you? That's tough. Yeah, and often, and as you, maybe if you haven't seen Freaks as recently, you may then compare your own children as they wobble around to the two small people.

I think it's Otto and I forget the woman's name. But the way they kind of move around and point at things and have these funny little old-timey voices, it's like, very much like having

a two-year-old. CR, you have the final pick of this draft. You know, I was curious whether or not... Gosh, I wonder if this is... No. See, everything I'm looking at that was supposed to be a little bit of upsetting the apple cart here, I think, is going to be

considered a thriller. So, I'm going to go Night of the Living Dead for classic. This would have been easy for me, except I took Dawn instead. Yeah, and I was kind of like, oh, do I want to take another zombie after Wreck? I'm going to take Night of the Living Dead. This was also one of for me, except I took Dawn instead. Yeah, and I was kind of like, oh, do I want to take another zombie after Wreck? But I'm going to take Night of the Living Dead. This was also one of the... I know I said Shocker was the first probably horror movie I remember getting that kind of jolt, so to speak, from.

But Night of the Living Dead had, in Philly, it would play at rep theaters. It would be a midnight movie. It was something to go do. And even though I like Dawn of the dead more, I still, I still think this is a pretty incredible, like landmark in cinema history. Impossible to argue with. Yeah.

Can't, uh, can't say anything about that. I probably like this more. Uh, but I took Dawn of the dead and sequel because there's a shorter pool in there that i think is totemic this movie is great it's great i mean seeing a screening of this is always a blast holds up also a movie that weirdly will also make you laugh a little bit in addition to being

scared it's also just has just a totally bleak and dire ending which is always appreciated there's really no hope at the end of this movie yeah Yeah. Well, Romero famously not the biggest optimist in the world. Yeah, it's really good. It's a really, I mean, someone had to take it. So that's everything. That's it.

We did it. Here's other than the others, something else for Blockbuster that was pretty close, but I gave the advantage to Amityville, is Coppola's Dracula. Uh, yes.

Genuinely shocked to see that above the $75 million line. Mm-hmm. Kind of a great movie. It is. Apparently, it's being re-released this October. And it's also getting the kind of like, this is actually good revival, I think.

I've already started to see people really... Have you seen that? No, I haven't. I mean, that's again, a lot of, I think, actors you probably would want to watch in a movie. Yeah, of course. Renata Ryder, Keanu, Gary Oldman. No, I mean, I...

And it's beautiful and stately, and the horror of it is deliberately of another time. Tom Waits eating flies? Sure, why not? Yeah, Tom Waits is Renfield. He's a great Renfield. And you know, there's a film coming out next year called Renfield.

Are you familiar with that, Chris? No, I didn't know that. Nicholas Holt plays Renfield, and Nicolas Cage plays Dracula. Oh, wow. That guy loves playing a blood boy. He does, he does. That I could have taken.

Other, and then it kind of, for foreign language, for me, as I said, it could have been Campbell Holocaust, Fulci's Zombie, I've really fallen back

in love with after catching a fun screening of it at a drive-in during the pandemic. And Herzog's Nosferatu would have been an easy one for me to take in foreign. Yeah.

I don't, I guess it feels redundant to me for some reason. me to take in foreign. Yeah. I don't, I don't, I guess it feels redundant to me for some reason. It's its own movie. Yeah. It is. I mean, there's a couple other examples of this, but like it is its own movie.

The only other one I really strongly considered for horror that you, that might be interesting for you as well, Amanda is a tale of two sisters, a Kim Ji-Woon movie, which is just an amazing. No Asian movies have been picked no Asian movies and Wild Card

we didn't pick Audition we didn't do Grudge yeah there were a number that we left on the board I thought about Funny Games horrible movie think so?

oh yeah I like it is that the Heineken yeah that's really messed up yeah I was hating that movie when I was watching it

and then they like rewind the movie in the movie. And I just turned to my friends and I went, F. Just that's it. I mean, this movie just went from like a D plus to an F. It's one of the worst devices I've ever seen in a movie. I still like it. Yeah.

Is it weird that nobody picked Friday or Elm Street? I strongly considered Friday too. Me too. Which I think is the sequel or number two. Number two. I have Friday the 13th in sequel.

If I didn't decide to take Psycho out of classical, Friday 1 would have been a slasher. 2 and 3 to me are also great movies. This is why I asked you

is the slasher category franchise? And if it was, I would have taken that in a heartbeat. I don't think anyone would have taken it first. Maybe we should have picked franchises. What is the best franchise?

It's Friday the 13th by a mile. It's easy to say that now though because we don't have any Friday the 13th movies happening. Let's just say the franchise pre-remakes. Let's just say as the franchise peters out of its own volition. Some of those 6 and 7, it's getting a little

grim here. No No way You're wrong Jason goes to hell Jason goes to New York Is not good Here's the thing 1, 2, and 3 All great 3 was on my list

For sequel Okay 4 or 2 2 is Baghead right I love 2 I just saw 3 again recently It's just It has the disco theme

I would just give it A little I wrote or 2 But 3 I would take 4, 5, and 6 Are the Tommy Jarvis movies Those are great But isn't 7 Ghost of New York disco theme. I would just give it a little, I wrote or two, but three I would take. Four, five, and six are the Tommy Jarvis movies. Those are great. But isn't Seven

Ghosts of New York? Seven is when there's the telekinetic girl. Seven's like, what if Carrie fought Jason? Great. What am I thinking? Is it eight?

Eight is when he goes to New York. This is really good. This is why I decided to come in. Totally fun. Is Freddy vs. Jason 10? No, after he goes

to New York, he goes to hell. Incredible. Jason goes to hell. No, after he goes to New York, he goes to hell. Incredible. Jason goes to hell. No, hell is so bad. One of the best posters of all time. It is a great poster,

but the whole, like, the spirit moving from person to person. Oh, it's absolutely terrible. And then, it's X, he's in space. Yeah.

And then he meets Jason, which is unwatchable. It's Freddy vs. Jason. Literally 8, 9, 10, 11 are bad. I don't think a single one of those goes below a B-. Oh, my God. Jason. Literally 8, 9, 10, 11 are bad. I don't think a single one of those goes below a B-.

Oh my god. Well no I can't X and Freddy meets Jason are bad. But I think to make it to 10 without dipping below a B- you cannot say

about any other. It's an insane scorecard. You cannot say about any other franchise. See our Jason goes to New York

rewatchables. That movie's great. Yeah let's definitely do that. No, I agree with Alex that I like the first three a lot. The Steve Minor, right? Yeah, well, he's sort of the... I don't think he directed all three.

Just the first one, but he produced all of them. Yeah, he's like the way Carpenter kind of steps aside. But then the Tommy Jarvis trilogy in the middle is great as well. Those are good. He's a fucked up kid

who's obsessed with Jason who starts killing people as well and then brings Jason back to life because he loves him so much. take friday over nightmare chris yeah definitely i'm not a huge dream guy that's my wife's problem with the nightmare movies she just cannot get into the dream logic nonsense of it she every time i make her watch one she goes what are freddy's rules they change every movie yeah what about the internal logic you know there's wonderful grotesque imagery in all of them, but to her

it's just divorced from any sort of fear. I also just suffer from really benign, clear work anxiety dreams, so I don't actually have that experience of like, I'm floating and then this happens and then this happens. It's like, I always am like, oh, I came into the studio and it's different

rewatchables that I didn't prepare for. And then your microphone eats your face. Exactly. And your headphones just squeeze you. Sometimes I have weird ones. I've had a couple of weird nightmares, but not in a very long time. The nightmare... I mean, yeah, you're right.

No one took these. The Nightmare on Elm Street franchise is weird. I rank it below all the rest. Although I did just, with my wife out of town, I did just finally complete my rewatch of the franchise i started last october i watched the first four with my daughter when she was 10 months old yeah okay they're they're schlockier than the other ones to me but they're a lot of fun i have a nostalgic place in my heart for dream warriors dream warriors is great i really like dream i think i was wearing my dream warriors hat today wow which i could put back on my head

dream warriors is good um The thing is, like, I truly love Dream Warriors. Oh, wow. That's a good hat. Go ahead and put this great hat. Green corduroy Nightmare on Elm Street

Dream Warriors hat. That's elite. Yeah. Shout out to Tapes from the Crypt on Instagram and Etsy. I love this movie. We're now up to

three different Etsy shops that have been shouted out. It's amazing. I buy the most, I mean, my shopping habits are like a 13-year-old. Is there a newsletter for this space yet? And if not, have you thought about it? No, he doesn't want to give away all the hot links.

He wants to keep the merch to himself. I want to support these small brands. I got to support. You need a sub stack, brother. Yeah. Man, I can't get into that. But I really, I love, I mean, I love 3 and 4 in Nightmare on Elm Street. They're really good.

The whole franchise, it's just like, it's really samey. And I know I just said Friday the 13th is the best and that's super samey. But I like the way that Jason has put into different challenges, especially, it really makes that franchise alive. It's like 4, 5, and 6 are arguably just like a great micro trilogy in the middle. You can't say about anything else. There is no great, the 4, 5, 6 of Halloween, no one's like, that micro trilogy in the middle. You can't say about anything else. There is no great micro. The 4, 5, 6 of Halloween, no one's like,

that's a really great run. But actually, that's not true. I feel like your wife says that, Chris. Isn't Phoebe really into 4, 5, and 6? But she really likes H2O.

No, but doesn't she? What's the young actress's name who leaps into 4 and 5? What is her? I can't remember her name. But she becomes like Michael Myers' nemesis slash

little sister like what the hell is that actress I've talked to your wife I mean those movies are good I'm not saying they're bad

but the franchise downshifts I also Season of the Witch was on my short list for sequels are you thinking of Daniel Harris Sean?

if someone had taken Dawn of the Dead, I would have probably taken Season of the Witch, but you can't argue that the franchise downshifts tremendously. Chris and I,

for Halloween ends, are going to rank all the Halloween movies on this pod. You know what's not a good movie is Halloween 2. I agree.

We rewatched that last year on Halloween. I agree with that too. I like hospital horror, like stuck in the hospital horror movies, but it's not great. The hot tub kill is good. The hot tub kill is good.

You know what I'm talking about, Bobby. Amanda, you know what we're talking about? No, I don't. Scalding hot bath, someone's face is dipped into it and their face melts off. It's phenomenal. And there's a great tanning booth kill

in front of the Nightmare on Elm Street movies yep the kind of like mundane kills of stuff around your house is always

very upsetting this has been a remarkable draft truly one of the finest we've ever had I need them run down for me and I'm sure people

by this point do as well since I've closed my computer and lost track actually we're supposed to read off our selections ourselves well I could do that Chris do you want to read your our selections ourselves. Well, I could do that. Chris, do you want to read your picks first?

Sure. In Slasher, I got Texas Chainsaw Massacre. In Sequel or Legacy Sequel, we just decided Sequel. Sequel, yes. I got Scream 2. In Blockbuster, I got Blair Witch Project. In Classical, Night of the Living Dead. In Foreign Language or British, I took Wreck. And in Wildcard, I took The Thing. Okay, I got Halloween.

In Sequel, I got Evil Dead 2. In Blockbuster, I got The Exorcist. In Classical, I got Rosemary's Baby. In Foreign Language or British, I took Deep Red. And in Wildcard, I took The Shining. In Slasher, I took Psycho. In Sequel, I took Dawn of the Dead. In Blockbuster, I took The Amityville Horror. In Classical, I took The Shining. In Slasher, I took Psycho. In Sequel, I took Dawn of the Dead. In Blockbuster, I took The Amityville Horror.

In Classical, I took Freaks. In Foreign Language or British, I took 28 Days Later. And in Wildcard, I took Hellraiser. 18 good movies, except for Evil Dead 2, in my unpopular opinion. Which of these movies are you going to watch tonight, Amanda? Tonight, I'm not going to watch any of them. Okay. Because we have some other films

You would watch Scream 2 I would watch Scream 2 sure I mean it's funny because it just really makes me want to re-watch Rosemary's Baby and you know

You're in New York You can now now that you've given birth Exactly right I thought a lot about it and now that's passed me I don't know what should I do?

What do you think you watch shocker okay do you have do you have beyond the scream do you have any memories of the other like teen horrors of that time are you and i know what you did last summer the faculty yeah well i know what you did but that was because that was sarah michelle geller and that yeah but she's in scream too is she oh yeah that was that was definitely where i first laid eyes oh great okay i i would happily watch scream too i was thinking at some point as we just evolve on this podcast to stunts and yelling at each other you guys should pick one movie to make me watch like in a theater with you i was gonna say watch along well but the experience of like putting me in the isolated theater and like

it should probably be we should rent it out or something on daniel x so that i can yell at you you know okay maybe a con what yeah maybe a con we could get like a one solo screening you know really really any international location but i think it would be funny and you could pick which movie maybe a 15th anniversary screening at con of wreck okay and me it's just me you and chris in a theater okay sean and i took you to venice yeah took you on a gondola you know like we were just like and we rode up to a theater and we were like surprise it's not the venice film festival it's just a screening of wreck and you're the only person who's going to be in this in the theater right

that would be great because we'd to be in the theater. Right. That would be great, because we'd still be in Venice on a gondola, and that's two hours of my life. And then presumably, I could go having a groany somewhere. When you go to whatever these festivals you do make it to, you do have to see the Asian horror movies that play at midnight.

Okay. That's what I've been saying. I've been saying to her, if she wants to go, she's got to do what I do, which is see it all. Midnight Madness. What was the movie? Was it in Austin when you got in the Uber you were in and got in an accident on the way home?

It was Hereditary? Yeah. Oh, my God. I went to a midnight screening of Hereditary, and it's a two-plus-hour movie, and took an Uber home. Right, I remember this. Three o'clock in the morning, somebody rear-ended our Uber, and the cops had to come, and I was questioned by the police. That's cool. It was a really fun experience.

I actually think Ari Aster arranged the car that ran into you. It's an elaborate Halloween stunt. Anyhow, what a great draft. Thanks, Alex.

Thanks for being here. Thank you for having me. It was a delight. Yeah, thanks for coming. You finally get to meet Amanda. Yeah, it was a delight. See Chris Ryan

one inch tall on a screen in the spaceship from 2001 I hope to meet you in person soon yeah this could have been it

but some other time Chris thank you thank you for your time of course man thank you for your spirit thank you for everything you've given to the big picture

this is your last episode of the Predator race continuing on yep good luck with Mrs. Predator Amanda thank you of course for enduring

I learned a lot and also fun experience for you Amanda yeah no it was educational Amanda, thank you. Of course. For enduring. I learned a lot. And also. Fun experience for you, Amanda? Yeah. No, it was educational. Okay. At the end when, you know, you started just recapping horror plots, which it's very funny how all of these podcasts just turn into being like, that's when the telekinetic girl does this, that, and the other, you know? And that's what I was expecting.

And so it was nice to get that dollop at the moment it's just movies just love the movies yeah thanks our producer Bobby Wagner sitting right across from me a rare occurrence always wonderful to be in

person with him and see you a couple days Thank you.