The Big Picture - The Juiceless Fall Movie Season, ‘The Running Man,’ and ‘Now You See Me: Now You Don’t’

Episode Date: November 14, 2025

Sean and Amanda are joined by Van Lathan to cover two new releases that they collectively had mixed feelings about. Before diving in, though, they theorize about why the fall movie slate has been such a huge disappointment both commercially and critically and what it represents for the industry at large going forward (0:34). Then, they break down Edgar Wright’s new action film, ‘The Running Man,’ starring Glen Powell, which they found deeply messy but also full of impressively staged action scenes (28:01). Next, they unpack the new magician legacy sequel ‘Now You See Me: Now You Don't,’ starring Jesse Eisenberg and Dave Franco. They explain their personal relationship with the original films and why Rosamund Pike was born to play an evil diamond heiress villain, and they hypothesize about what its potential box office chances are (59:23). Finally, Edgar Wright joins Sean to discuss the evolving landscape of studio filmmaking, how he constructs an elaborate action set piece, and the amazing story about how Powell was cast for the lead part (1:15:55). Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guests: Edgar Wright and Van Lathan Producer: Jack Sanders Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Sean Fennessy. And this is the big picture of a conversation show about a very awkward movie fall. On this episode, we will be talking about two new movies. Now You See Me, Now You Don't, and The Running Man with our friend Van Lathen. Later in this episode, I'll have it great on the show to talk about The Running Man, director of the film. He's been on the show before. a very, very smart and interesting

cinephile, great conversation. But first, I did want to talk about what's going on at the movies. You and I had this long conversation on Bill Simmons's podcast recently about the future of the art form. That was a very kind of broad, vague discussion about who gets to make movies and who doesn't.

But I've been reflecting on the October that we exited and the start of this November. And something feels off. And I've been trying to figure out what it is, you could very easily diagnose it. The movies just haven't been as good as we wanted them to be, right? We are going to come back to that.

Okay. But we can have your conversation first. Okay. I have a few theories as to what's going on because at this time now, everything was supposed to be sorted out. You know, we've gotten past the pandemic era with theaters. We've gotten through a couple of strikes.

We've had enough production time for everything to catch up. We're getting big movies like The Running Man. Like, now you see me, now you don't. in the fall. Box office is down. The movies are not really viking with people.

A lot of big stuff is going on streaming and making a solid dent there, but maybe not as noisy. I'm not panicking. I think I'm just trying to figure out what feels wrong. Yeah. As is custom in these conversations,

am I overreacting? No, I mean, it has not been a successful fall. And I had an experience this morning where I was talking with a friend and trying to recommend something that she watch while she's, like, stuck at home, basically. And I couldn't think of a good movie that I thought would be worth her time on streaming, you know, something that would be available either because it's been put on digital or was streaming first. So it's been a tough fall.

Definitely the box office has been down. I think there are some strategic mistakes that have been made. And then I do also think that sometimes we have seasons like this where movies just don't work out. And there are a lot of things that on paper we were excited for, and it was not quite dud after dud, but miss after miss, after miss. And we are at the end of a series of many misses. So that happens. It doesn't feel good when it happens. And our mood on this show gets, and your mood in particular, like gets pretty down.

and then you go see Minecraft or whatever and you're like, movies are saved. But yeah, you're not wrong. You're just, you know, well, you're fishing for a think piece. Maybe, maybe. What do you think? You don't have to do this three times a week like we do,

so maybe you don't have to have this mentality as much. Maybe not. And I think maybe some anticipation is in there for you guys because you guys know the big movies that are coming out and stuff like that. A couple of things. One, next year is a gigantic year. with all of these huge, gigantic property,

some of them IP coming out. So we should see the way the box office shakes out and really, really, really to your point because I agree with you. We thought that we would know by now and we were like 2025 is going to be the year and it turns out that it really wasn't as far as the diagnosis was concerned

and maybe 2026 would be the year. I do think that there are a couple of interesting things going on like particularly with, so the Sydney-Sweeney movie about Chrissy Martin, right? That movie is interesting. And so far is I've heard that, I have not seen this. I heard that it was a really strong performance by her. She's very good in the movie.

Okay. I think the movie is less about the movie and more about her. And not anything that has to do with her or any controversies that she's had away from the screen. It's a referendum on her. I think those movies feel more important than they used to feel. I wonder if Joe versus the volcano when it came out was like a referendum on Tom Cruise. Not Tom Cruise, Tom Hanks and like who he was. Right.

Like bonfire of vanities puts all of these people together. The movie doesn't do what the movie was supposed to do a kind of epic and very famous movie that fell short of all expectations from a box office and critical standpoint. I don't know. Was there as much conversation about Bruce Willis, Melanie Griffiths, Tom Hanks together can't make a hit? So I think that some of this stuff is our inability to connect with the crop of talent that we have.

And some of it is the fact that we're a little bit more locked in and we're a little bit more prone to these discussions than we used to be. I think it's all those things together. We didn't have podcasts in 1986, right? Like we had Entertainment Weekly, and we all know about, like, the colossal failure that was Bonfire of the Vanities and the hand-wringing because it was covered and discussed

in the way that it was at the time and handed down to us. So I'm sure there was some version of that. To me, this is not about a single movie. I do think Christy is one of the most important movies to talk about in this experience because it signals something that is like a transitional moment that is happening in both stardom and in the way the movies are distributed. But like just going down the list, a couple things are obviously working, right? The new Predator movie, that worked.

The fourth Conjuring movie, that worked. Black Phone 2, that worked. Then now you see me movie, that's going to work. Those are franchises. Those are very familiar properties. That's the sort of thing that still mostly works at like a medium scale. We don't have billion-dollar movies for the most part right now. but the medium stuff is still working okay.

But Smashing Machine, After the Hunt, Roof Man, House of Dynamite, Good Fortune, Shelby Oaks, Nuremberg, Christy, original movies, adult movies. But they're so, but they're also, a lot of those movies are driven by stars that we haven't really made our mind up on yet. I agree. And also, I do think to your point about Tom Hanks and Sidney Sweeney and everyone else, one of the lessons of this fall to me, even to bring it back to Van to one battle after another is that movie stars don't open movies anymore

like it's done like it is over movie stars possibly have other value and maybe they have value down the road and streaming and in terms of drawing people to an attention to a film and just basic awareness

which you need at this point but getting people to go see a movie in theaters because Sidney Sweeney is it because Jennifer Lawrence is in it, because Leonardo DiCaprio is in it, just does not happen. That's over. Yeah, I think that that's definitely true. I think that some of those

other movies, though, are very well-known people that we're not, we're not making our mind up on The Rock or Julia Roberts. Or even Channing Tatum. Well, well, I think we kind of are. I think we are. Like, so we're not making our mind up on the Rock when he's in Jumanji or when he's in

Fast and Furious, but I'm still making my mind up on that. I like that. I'll buy a ticket to that amusement part. But I think we are making our mind up on him as, you know, in the very focused character piece. And by the way, I feel like when people have endeavored to or big stars have endeavored to make movies like that in the past, they've never really been about,

and we've talked about this one battle after another. The box office was less to me important than the quality of the performance. I still think the smashing machine is a success for the rock. I agree, but I don't think that that is the generally accepted point of view on that movie. I stand by that will be a really interesting movie to look at five years from now when it's outside of the discussion of its box office and its awards race as like a step in the chain of him trying to be an artist. But that's not how it's judged on this show or really anywhere.

Well, and the smashing machine is another example that brings in the other half of this, which is the distribution strategy and how the indie market is changing. And that is an A24 movie that has a much larger budget than the A24 films that we have known and loved. And that was part of like a stated play by them to make bigger movies, to go wider. They are putting the rock in like A24 clothing, but then they're hoping to get more of a rock like opening, right? And that didn't happen. Yeah. It just did not. Right. It was still on the A24 scale. It also didn't happen for like Adam Sandler and like Punch Drunk Love, which it's, it's Billy Madison, it's Little

Nicky, it's all of these movies coming out and boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And then Adam Sandler goes, well, I want to do something different. I want to do something serious. I want to work with very deliberate filmmakers and fantastic talent. This movie, I'm not sure what the budget on that was, but that movie obviously wasn't made to be the type of hit that he was known for. And he was, it was, it was, it came out. maybe towards the tail end of the Adam Sandler super hot period,

but definitely when he was still a gigantic draw. I think it's in the aftermath of a lot of movies that I have a lot of emotional affection for, but he had even bigger movies after Punch Drunk Love. I mean, into the 2000s and 2010s, he had huge box office successes. So, Tim, you're right in that stars have been doing this kind of thing historically over and over and over again, right?

In the 50s, stars would be like, I'm trying to do something a little bit more compelling and interesting and character-driven and not as spectacle-oriented. It's not that. Look at Kirk Douglas' career. He has a series of really interesting choices in the 50s and 60s because he's trying to push himself and push the medium forward. I think it's, to me, this is like a really a story of agglomeration.

It's like the smashing machine is not the only problem. Christy's not the only problem. And I think Amanda has put her finger on something that is very right, which is A-24 and neon are in a transitional phase, right? They've both had best picture winners. They started out as small mini-majors in the fall of Weinstein, right? That they were like, we're going to fill the Miramax backfill. So those companies are trying to get bigger.

That's very hard to do. It's very hard to go from $20 million movies to $80 million movies. There's going to be some struggles there. And then up underneath them are all of these new companies. There's three in particular that have emerged this year. One is Roe K. One is one-two special. And the last is Black Bear, which is a production company.

that has been making movies for years. Teddy Schwartzman, the kind of CEO of that company, was on the town a couple of weeks ago. He talked about how they're now distributing movies, not just producing the movies and selling them off to people to distribute. They put Christie in theaters.

So, Christy, just like the smashing machine, just like Die My Love, is essentially a small, independent film with a big star in the center of it that 10, 20, 30 years ago would have been platformed. Would it come out in two theaters, and then 37 theaters,

and then 300 theaters, and if people liked it, it would open on 2,000 theaters six or eight weeks after it came out. All three of those movies came out on 2,500 screens. Yeah. Instantaneously.

I just, that's just a trade. I don't understand that decision. It doesn't make any sense. It would make sense if it was a small movie about Hillary Clinton. Like, if it was a small... It would have made sense to Amanda.

Absolutely not. Right. You know what I mean? If it was... An extremely well-known biopic. Yeah, like, yeah, something like, hey, this is the story of, like, whatever. Like, John Travolta does primary colors.

Oh, interesting. It's Bill Clinton, blah, blah, blah. But, like, it's about people. I knew who both of them were. Actually, I didn't know who the Chapman was. I didn't know who that was. The guy that Rock played in the Smash Machine. Oh, Mark Kirk.

Mark Kirk. I don't know why I said, Chapman. So I didn't know who he was. But Christy Martin, I'm a boxer fan. I definitely knew who she was. And it would seem that if you were going to do her life story, that you would get, a, like, known box office entity

that would denote having that wide release. But they took a big swing on Sidney Sweeney. And Sidney Sweeney is a big-time celebrity, for sure. I don't know if she's a big-time movie star quite yet. I mean, you know, here is my reaction. I've literally never heard of the person, Christy, and I've heard about Sydney Sweeney's, you know, various missteps on social.

media and interviews over the years and she's like an alt-write meme now and I was like I'm good thank you so that's my personal reaction to it I do wonder where her audience is and I think it's a miscalculation of who she is as a star and where the audience like that there is a wide enough audience

for her that would go to see like a fighting movie you know it's just again people go to see her because they like look I actually applaud before I even say this I applaud the swing I am an actress.

I think she should be trying to make movies like that. She should be trying to make movies like that. I am an actress. You're setting yourself up for failure or to come in soft with your box office in a way by putting it in that many screens with that subject matter and with an actress like you said who we haven't really glommed on to yet as the driving force in a movie and who has what some people would say is a divisive public image.

So it's just an interesting thing. You know, the question is, like, even with Channing Tatum, Channing Tatum is a movie star. But I don't know if it's a capital S on the star. Yeah. It's true. I think it's a lowercase S on the star. Yeah.

And so what was Roofman supposed to be? Like, what is that? Was it just supposed to be a cool movie? Because I can live with that. To me, it is a cool movie. It's a cool movie. I like the movie a lot. But it's, you know, the entire campaign,

is just Channing Tatum, like, as large as you can possibly fit him on the poster in, like, goofy glasses, which, you know, I thought he was very entertaining in, but they are trying to sell it on Channing Tatum. And I agree. Like, he is, he became a movie star, and I agree with the capitalization choice, lower S, in like 2010, 2012. Yeah, 21 Jump Street, Magic Mike. And that, that whole generation, like, it's too late. They just, I think that is kind of when it turns, where you can have movie star power, but you never get, you know, translated in. I think it's as much to, it's possible, it's possible

that we have overinflated the necessity and relevance of stars because of the idolatry that we grew up practicing. And that, in fact, what really happened here has less to do with like the diminishment of stars and really just the idea that people will just wait to see a movie like Roofman for wait four weeks and they'll be able to stream it. And it's a lot cheaper. and it's a lot more convenient, and we have now fully, when I was freaking out,

I'm not freaking out anymore, when I was freaking out in 2020, 2021, when they started shrinking the windows, when they started moving things to streaming after a month, I was like, you are killing it, you're killing it, you're making people realize that they don't have to show up. You're taking what is a multi, multi, multi, multi billion dollar business and you're carving out at least 40% of it. And now, there's good movies, there's bad movies this fall. This hasn't been as good a fall as I would have wanted, but in a year where you can look at what sinners and weapons did and say, like, we've got some momentum. Things are hot right now. To deflate that this month feels like a real reckoning with the decisions that have been made over the last

10 years. Yeah. Those are both genre movies, you know, on time. Like, those are, those have, they have stars and they have big budgets and they have great, like, established filmmakers, but they are also like a zombie movie and a horror movie. And I think in some ways, in terms of box office appeal have more in common with the established you know mid-level movies

that are hitting than Roof Man you know than all of the I think some of it is just basic format and it's like we know what works

at the box office and we we know what doesn't at this point which is character-driven passion projects of people

who are famous on the internet and in the movies I'll tell you something telling you guys right now don't give up yet because we're still, you got some things coming up.

Yeah, we got Avengers Dooms Day. So, wait, I'm not talking about this year. Yeah. So, number one, a good test of this will be Marty Supreme. I will. Yeah, of course. I think it is the ultimate test. Because Marty Supreme stars somebody who we, who, I mean, he has a, he's the exception.

He's the guy right now that people are uniquely interested in, in the way that they were interested in young stars 15, 20 years ago. They are uniquely interested in the things that he does. And that movie is supposed to be really, have you guys? I've seen it. I've seen it. It's really good. Okay, so the movie's supposed to be really good. He's great in it.

It's him, boom, the whole doubt. Hold on, though. Now, he's smart, and I'm a huge fan of his, but he has zero hits that are not IP. That's true. So that's why it is the ultimate test. And if that movie doesn't, I don't know what the, I don't know what the right number is for success, but if it's a big disappointment, if it's a smashing machine level disappointment at the box office, that's tough. That's tough. That is why this is a good test.

As far as the IP stuff, man, we see. still got two big ones coming out, and I can't wait. Go ahead. Wicked for good. Woo! You're excited? You guys can't, you guys don't even know. If you guys have never seen the stage show, you don't even know what's about to happen.

I didn't know that you were a wicked. Oh, I know. That's beautiful. Do you want to come with me to see it? Do you have tickets yet? I think that there's a screening. Why? You want to see someone special?

Well, he... I have to go to a different screen. Yeah, and so I have an extra ticket. Will you come with me? I don't want to see it by myself. I would love to see it with you. You can have my ticket. Hey, you want to know something that.

That's like a fun piece of knowledge. Yeah. Do you know who one of my closest friends was, one of my first famous friends? Tell me. He digs. Do you know who his wife? I do.

Aha. So she was right there the whole time. Adina takes wife. Anyway, we don't want to talk about that. It was all kinds of stuff that happened. Now, um... They split up? Yeah.

You know a very long time ago. Now, and then in December, we'll film making... Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. what's that that is the blue people shooting at the humans long

a whole race of women yamas blue women yamas are back right and we're gonna have fun with them and I want you guys I know this is a serious movie show but I want you guys to let yourselves feel in December

you don't have to tell me anything I'm pro avatar I'm a pro avatar I love it I every time I have like the Chris Ryan I don't care about this mentality It's not even

It's only been two times There's only been two movies Every time for centuries I've had to go to the theater We have to talk about it so much You know Yeah because it's a big deal So much

And then he's like And then Kate Wenslett broke this other record You know And Sigourney Weaver's doing some stuff And there's a whale You know we just It does occupy More of the consciousness

Of this podcast You can't count out Jimmy Cee ever ever count out Big Jim. You're a thousand percent right. I know that. I know that. It's three hours and 15 minutes.

Is the movie three hours and 15 minutes? There's the movie three hours and 15 minutes. And. Jim don't give a fuck. That's crazy. Jim said, you're going to sit here. He said, I invented new technology to make this movie. I will also say, you're going to watch this shit.

I love it. I am more like water than fire. interested just you know in terms of atmospheres fire and ash I'm not like looking forward to three hours of that I prefer the palate and the and the whale of you know and everything

that's going on in the ocean I'm very excited for fire and ash let us not underestimate Zootopia 2 as well which will also be a massive hit regarding Wicked I'm just not a fan of the first film like not at all I am going to see it again on Sunday with my daughter because they're running it again

so now I'll be ready to see for good on Tuesday. And we'll talk about for good. And we'll try to have as good of faith conversation about for good with Julia Lippin on the show as we possibly can.

Yeah. Because I don't want to just shit on it for two hours, but I did not like the first movie. So let me ask you this. You didn't like the first movie. Did you just ask you this? Did you like Define Gravity?

Yeah. I mean, it's obviously a great song well performed. But I was like, this is the end of the movie. Do I like the song? Or do I like the... Huge CGI monkey fan. Yeah.

It looked. I mean, the whole movie, looks bad in my opinion do not care for the desaturated colors or CGIi and that truly is like CGI vomit fest at the end

and then I thought they really undercut themselves with using with like the climactic the literal last moment of the film in the trailer and so when she finally does like you know at the end of the movie

and then it cuts and I was like damn you spoiled the end of the movie Like, come on. I cry like a child. Every time I cry like a child. I cry literally. It doesn't matter who performs defying gravity. It is such a human.

It doesn't matter how many times I've seen it. Like she starts, I'm going to cry right now. She starts belting out. She feels so bad. She's very good at it. Yeah, I cry like a child. Part of the reason why I've tried to not orient this conversation too much around the box office is I think the box office will be fine because you've got wicked, you've got Zootopia 2, you've got Avatar. Like those movies are going to do.

do well. There's going to be other movies that come out in December that are going to do well. It's less of a like the house is on fire thing as it is this confluence of. The quality feels a little off. The reception feels really muted. Even the Oscar race, which we talk about all the time, it's like it's kind of settled in, right? It's like it's one battle. Sinners, it's Hamnet. And then it's like a bunch of other stuff. And that's not uncommon necessarily, but there's feels like there's less anticipation for sentimental value or less anticipation for, you know, what's another Netflix film

that's coming out later this year I mean Jay Kelly it feels like I'm interested in Jay Kelly I liked it a lot I liked it a lot

the fuck y'all see every fucking movie six months before the shit comes out like I'm starting to get jealous like so you already you already saw

Jay Kelly yeah yeah I saw it I saw it in Venice do you want to come to the Venice did you want to come to the Venice I saw it over at

George's house stop trying to pretend like you're already You are the common listener at home, when you are, like, I haven't seen this sheet yet. Three minutes ago we're like, one of my first famous friends was Tay Diggs. I met him at the gym. I met him playing basketball. In Hollywood, California. I met him playing gym.

I would like to extend, first, a formal invitation for you to, A, come see you with me next week. I'm going. And B, to come to the Venice Film Festival next year with me. I would love to go. I think that we would do. How do you feel about Italy in general? I love Italy. And I would like to have my own Italian adventure at the Venice Film Festival.

So can we even name this guy? James Tobach is canceled, right? I believe so, yes. Okay, so maybe I won't speak about him. I mean, you could say his name. Okay, so he did a documentary years ago. Yes. And it was about him and Alec Baldwin.

Yeah, do you remember that? Yes. Two cancelese. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I'm honestly sure they're both fine. I'm probably, you know. But they went to Venice in that document. Yeah, I'm trying to remember the name of the, it was two verbs, something and something.

But they were talking about. the that that documentary was seduced and abandoned oh good okay seduced and abandage it's meant to be a reference to trying to raise money at a film festival to make a film right not what james stobach has been accused of in the public eye which is very unseemly the fact that that was the name of it i forgot what the name of it was but ever since i saw that i wanted to go to the film festival because i wanted to see people running around trying to get their movies made which of course you know is a process. I'm in love with. I think that's a part of it when you're out here trying to do this. One reference back to the conversation that you, Bill, and I had was that this is an interesting tension right here. And I don't know that I articulated it quite as well as I'd like to. This is a tension right here that I feel like I wonder how much it's existed in the past. Meaning, baton handing, torch passing situation. We do have an estate. group of stars that are still

incredibly virile and very powerful. Particularly the male ones. Because they just don't let... I'm just saying they don't let our female stars. It's like Julia is not getting the same leeway to do the stuff that she's been doing. She doesn't have a

mission impossible aid. Right. Yeah. That other people have done. I will say that there is a crop of older black actresses that are coming into their own now and that is great to see. Right. Yeah. There's some exceptions. I think Devil Wears Prada, too, is an interesting test of this, too. You know, Merrill Street getting, you know, the chance to run.

That movie's going to be a big hit. Big shout out to Alene McKenna. It looks like Instagram, though. I mean, the teaser, I was just, you know. I can't wait. I was upset. I can't wait to absolutely destroy your soul in that episode. It's going to be amazing.

I mean, I, like, I love it, and it's just, it looks, it looks like Instagram. 10 years of Marvel pods with Amanda, watching me go through all the stages of joy and grief, and now finally, it happened. It has come for her. I just, I mean, I'll be on board, but I thought the teaser looked like one of those Vogue, you know, 45 questions videos or whatever. The question is, can the new generation of stars,

not so much directing and writing talent because I think they're doing fine. Yeah, I agree. Will the new director, the generation of stars, be able to wrestle Hollywood from the old guard? It always used to happen. Like Cruz took it from Clint Eastwood, or he took it from,

I fucking, I guess Burt Reynolds would have been the 70s. They took it from those guys. Will Smith came and had a to go war with Tom Cruise and Hanks took it

from Justin Hawley and all that stuff. A lot of those guys Hackman would be like I'll do enemy of the state with Will Smith because I got to be the younger guy in a movie

in the 60s and now I get to be the old guy in this movie and we show I mean we're going to talk about Robert Redford later this week. Redford and Spy Game is like a version of that.

He's like, I'm handing you the three days of the Condor Baton Red Pitt. It's your time now. And this proposal. Yeah, exactly.

Cruz, he tries to do this. No, he does. He does. He showed up to the running men premiere and to the photo on with Glenn Powell. He has a, he is insompetical with Glenn Powell. If Tom and that bitch, Tom the man.

He the sexiest, that's true. He's the strongest. He run the fastest. It's true. Like, if Tom and that bitch, Tom the man. This problem is not limited to movies. It maps onto our current political climate. And everywhere in the world, the corporations I love so much

politics, everything. Yeah, it's just, it's a bunch of old people who won't get out of the way. In this equation is Glenn Powell, Zonron Mamdani? I love that. Okay. Yeah.

For both of them. Well, I hope that the the mayorship of New York goes better than the movie did. Incredible. Great, great segment. Let's talk about the running man. I do as well.

Okay, perfectly teed up, Van, the running man. Let's talk about it right now. This is the new film from Edgar Wright, his first film since last night in Soho. It is based on a 40-plus-year-old novel written by Stephen King under the Richard Bachman moniker.

It stars our guy, Glenn Powell, Josh Brolin, Coleman Domingo, William H. Macy, Lee Pace, Michael Sarah, Amelia Jones, Jamie Lawson, great cast. The premise of the movie is this. In the future, The Running Man is the top-rated show on television. It's a deadly competition show where contestants must submit themselves

to a survival game. If they last 30 days, they earn a wild sum of money. They live in a dystopian future where there is a real division between the haves and have-nots, who can relate. Ben Richards, the Powell character, is convinced that he can survive,

and even though he is being tracked throughout the entirety of this game, he goes to great lengths to try to do so. Mandel, start with you. What did you think of the running men? All of the adjectives that I would use to describe this film, which include rickety,

implausible, and tonally inconsistent and not to my taste would suggest that I had a bad time at the film. I did it. I had a good time. I, or I had like a fine time and was occasionally entertained and I was not angry when leaving the theater. I don't think that I'm an Edgar Wright person, which we have known. And I, you know, I think that there are some gaping holes and some issues here. but also sometimes I just like turning my brain off

and going to the movies and this did feel like an old school turning your brain off and you do need to to go to the movies. Dan, what do you think? So I am an Edgar Wright person for the most part. Scott Pilgrim versus the world is legitimately one of my top, just one of the first things you probably knew about me.

We talked about this very early on. One of the first pods we did together on this show. Well, my top 10 favorite movies of all time. I love Baby Driver. I love a lot of the stuff that Eger Wright has done. I think he's best when the tone is very concrete, adhered to, and very linear and clear. This movie is tonally all over the place to me.

If the Arnold Schwarzenegger version of this is, let's take the conceit and make it into a hyperviolent, colorful, winking at the audience type of action movie. There's another version of the film that's probably super serious. is that really explores the dystopian nature of the film and the income inequality and it's very dark and it's gritty and there's no, the only time you ever see any lights

and the show itself. And then there's this one, which is trying to do both things and doesn't do either of them very well to me. The movie is fun for 70% of it. Yeah. And then, man, the last part of it, man, Like when you get into the third act, it is just so messy. I'm not sure why they're not trying to kill Ben, when they're trying to kill Ben, who he's up against. Like, what's going on? The lady from Tass comes into the movie and it's kind of like, what the hell is?

Amelia Jones. Amelia Jones. Oh, Amelia Jones is on task? Oh, I had no idea. I spent the whole movie trying to be like, who is that? I don't know who that. It's a gal from Coda. And then I googled afterwards and I was like,

Yeah. Tasks. Were we happy with Task at the end? Tass, I haven't seen it. Oh, me either. Me either. I was like, well, that trait, I just, you know, good luck. I'm definitely more positive on this movie than both of you guys.

I think as far as like action movies in 2025 go, to me, it's near the top of the heap. Just in terms of the pure staging of the action, the way that all the sequences go, there's like a level of creativity and execution and practicality that is like the thing. that I'm basically begging for in movies. The feeling that I had in Vegas when we saw the trailer, I was like, I need this. I need movies to be like this. I do think that this is a fascinating paradox, though, of IP opportunity.

So the 1987 film starring Schwartz and Edgar, which you just referenced, to me, is not a good film. I know that it has a lot of adoration for mostly men of R.H. You know, if you grew up watching it on cable. Jim Brown. Yes, and the Richard Dawson of it all. Jesse, the Body Ventura.

Yeah. Like, it's like a video game. It's like a video game. That adaptation comes very shortly after the book is published, but the 87 film is basically not even an adaptation. It uses just the framework of a survival game show and goes off and makes an Arnold Schwarzenegger movie in a small, like in a very small scale way, a very, like, subterranean way. This is a very expansive movie that, like, is jumping from city to city, has lots of production design. it's a huge big budget action movie and so there's opportunity to significantly improve the material

however the book is set in 2025 it's unclear where the movie is set I don't think it actually says 2025 so instead it just seems like either an alternate reality or another 35 years in the future and the satire that's in it feels like it's 2025 American satire but we also live in a time in which you can't really satirize America anymore

because America is unsaturizable because it is such a preposterous you know hive of scum and villainy. Like it is just a really, really bizarre time to be alive. You know it's funny? So there's a part in the movie

where there's a game show before the running man, Ben is watching on TV. And it's a guy running on a hamster wheel while asking questions. And I thought to myself, they would make that. Oh, yeah. A thousand percent.

I thought to myself, the running man, everybody's trying to kill him. Maybe we're not to that point yet, but you doing the physical thing while the guy is asking you questions and then watching your heart rate, they would make that show. Yeah. We're to that point. I do think that they did, there was a marketing stunt for another Stephen King adaptation, The Long Walk, where everyone was on treadmills in the theater and you had to keep going. And if you stopped, then you left the theater. Now, like, it was stunt for another, like, Stephen King adapted dystopian story, but, like, they did it, kind of, pretty much already in 2025. Yeah, and that was an odd stunt for that movie, which is incredibly grim and difficult and changes the book's ending in a way, not unlike this movie, changes the book's ending, which is something I want to talk about.

The one thing with the tone is Edgar is at his best when he's doing a postmodern riff on something, when he's saying, like, I've seen every zombie movie. I'm going to make the funniest zombie movie of all time. You know, I've seen every, you know, simple guy with a gun, diehard style action movie. I'm going to make hot fuzz. You've just isolated also why I'm not an advocate person. Because like the thing I don't want to hear before we start anything is a guy being like, so you know what?

I know this better than anyone and now I'm going to do my own thing. I'm like, oh, really, thanks so much. But you also don't love the movies that he loves. And I think that's a big reason why. But there is an attitudinal, like, aspect of that underpinning that, that is off-putting. The tricky thing in this one with the tone is that it doesn't pick one.

And so it is at times mean, but never really mean enough. And for the most part, pretty toothless about some very, very dark stuff. It's violent. It's not quite violent enough. He's angry, but he's not quite mad enough. Yeah.

And it's the movie has a tremendous amount of of commentary on obviously the income inequality and all of these things in urban blind and all of that, but it doesn't really go into those things. So even when the... It has like a bunch of sick kids, which is incredibly upsetting, but they're just essentially used as as props or story devices. I mean, like the coughing stressed me out the whole time, but there's no development. The first 15 minutes of the coughing.

Yeah, yeah. There's no character development. It's just, you know, it's, kind of like, oh no, baby, you know, baby going to be ill. You know, they say cancer a bunch and then, you know, are trying to manipulate your emotions on a very surface level. Even the decision to go on the running man is made kind of cavalierly. I understand from an intellectual standpoint, like why he did it.

But it's like you're going to die. Like no one has ever, ever survived this. You're going to die. and he just kind of I don't know I didn't really have as much of a problem with this stuff as you guys were saying

I think to me the bigger issues in terms of like the toothlessness is that this is a story that necessitates the ending that an ending that the book has

that this movie doesn't have the movie is trying to represent at the end a kind of up with people conceit and I'll just say for anybody who hasn't read the book

the ending of this book is that when the Ben Richards character gets on the plane in that big final act conclusion, he flies the plane into the network building and it explodes and kills thousands of people in himself. That's the end of the book. Just a fire.

And it's like, this is the only way to solve things is this nihilism in the face of this level of corporate greed and, you know, the government run rampant and intersecting with corporate power. And the movie,

one, I don't think a major studio would let anyone end a movie like that right now. No, you can't. You know what? It did happen in Fight Club, which we also talked about last week, but it's very rare for a big movie studio, let a movie happen that way. Also, Fight Club is pre-9-11.

I mean, that's... Yeah, it's just a quite literal. It's obviously in 9-11. You're not going to be that, right. And then, secondarily, like, where they land, I think just continues to contribute a bit to the tonal confusion of what Ben Richards stands for, what the movie is trying to stand for.

I think it's just... It's unfortunate that it is attempting to be so satirical, because I think if you had stripped out some of the satire, it actually would have ultimately been more successful. Because they're mostly cheap rod shots that don't land. Like there's a, there's a Kardashians motif, which is obvious and like not particularly insightful. And, you know, this is the problem with all satire in 2025,

which is like the Internet's got this covered and we've had it covered for 10 years. And so we don't need you to be making jokes about... Americanos, Kardashians, yeah. Exactly. And there's like a... shake shack reference or at something. I'm like, oh, like, we're all sad people waiting in line for shake shack. But, like, actually, the lines at shake shock have improved dramatically.

You know, it's like, that's like a 2012 problem, you know? Like, this script was written when there was just the one shake shack and we watched the shake cam. And I'm just like, well, you can pretty much go anywhere now and get a shake shack. It's funny. It wasn't actually, because if you listen to Edgar talk about it, like they made this movie really fast, too. You know, they made it in a very short window. of time very unusual like basically in one year this movie started and finished so yeah this is an interesting one let's talk about Glenn Powell

okay so Glenn is attempting to do a thing that we just spent 20 minutes at the top of this conversation saying is no longer feasible he is attempting to become an old school movie star now he has checked a number of boxes along the way he has been part of

a massive billion dollar franchise movie he has helped Shepard the establishment of an old franchise movie and Twisters. He has opened a rom-com. I forgot about that. To hundreds of millions of dollars with another young star in anyone but

you. He has had a hit streaming movie that he worked on with the celebrated otore and hitman. He's checked all the boxes. The next box is solo action vehicle. This is very against type for the Glenn Powell that we know.

Yeah. Glenn Powell is a fast-talking smoothie who is very funny and very charming and he's a he's a quick-witted Texan that's his persona as a movie star then richards is a deeply angry person he is a proletariat who has been literally wounded by corporate power what do you think Glenn i don't think it's his fault and i thought that there are moments in the script because it is all over the place where he gets to be funny Like all of his little video cams and all of the moments where he's in disguise because Glenn Powell loves a Halloween costume more than, and that's great. It's important to find your passions as bad as I were discussing on the way in this morning. This is true to the book, for the record, the disguises.

Well, but still, then maybe that's why he was into it because our guy loves a fake hair piece, you know? So I, he can sort of be himself sometimes. there are glimpses of it. And also, like, he is, like, a physically convincing action star. Like, when he is running, when he's sliding under things, I was fine with that. The sequence in the YMCA, where he, you know, within the sort of the vet hotel in Boston, he's doing amazing action star stuff in that set. So, like, I don't think the character is very well written or well positioned within the film,

but I don't blame him for that. I don't know if you, you know. You guys remember a movie called First Night? Sure. Heath Ledger. Heath Ledger. No, no, no, no. Oh. That is like the Heath Ledger movie.

I think that is... Heath Ledger, a Knight's Tale. Oh, my bad. First night is Martin Lawrence? That's Black Knight. Black Knight. First night is... Richard Gear?

Richard Gear. Okay. As Lance a lot. Oh, no. Sean Connery as King Arthur. And I can't remember who was going to Yeah, we used to do a night movies draft. Night movies draft.

Julia Ormond. Julian Armand, okay. Oh, man, I loved her. God damn. Loved her. Sabrina? Smilla's sense of snow. Yeah.

I was her in Sabrina, right? And I remember it was right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So that movie is cast perfectly. Mm-hmm. Except for one person.

Lancelot. Mm. Richard Gear was not Lancelot. Richard Gear was a lot of things. He was beautiful. I don't think I've seen for all of that. It's actually kind of one of. He looks pretty silly.

I'm just looking at the poster and he's like stuffed into the suit. It's a van classic. But Richard Geer is not Lancelot. This is outrageous. Do you know who directed this movie? Who? You don't know?

I don't know. Jerry Zucker, the man who directed Airplane and Top Secret. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fantastic. And so... He looks so uncomfortable on this horse. He's not...

He's wearing the breastplate, but it doesn't fit him. It was the first time I can remember a conversation about casting. I'm super into King Arthur I love Excalibur for all of its crazy wackiness and all of that stuff Mr. Vavalon? Mr. Vivalon? Yeah.

I learned a lot. I watched the Merlin show when it came on NBC, like all of that stuff, right? It was like they had a show NBC on Merlin, very weird. So all of this stuff, just a great actor,

super just not quite right for that role. That's how I felt about Glenn Powell in this. Like Glenn Powell, everything twisters is just him in his skin right hang man doing his thing hit man all of this stuff it works

this just wasn't quite for him now there are people actors like Glenn Powell with technique who can then become this role I just don't think there was enough narrative clarity for him to kind of do that here and it kind of the movie really

Holmes when Michael Sarah is in the film in that part because it is so clear on what's happening weird guy with the vendetta killing all of these people and you're just on

you're loving everything is going to? I thought Michael Sarah was great. May I just say that I literally had no idea what was happening when he hits the button? I was like why did you do that? What's going on? I didn't understand the narrative stakes. I didn't understand the

motivation. I was like, I literally do not understand what's happening revenge for his daddy. Yeah, I think it was like a chaos agent kind of completion of his mission. And like, is his mom in on it? Like, I don't know, it's just like a bunch of people running around in a hallway. I like, I think I like that part, but I like, I think I like that part

because Michael Sarah is. He was very funny. He is an Edgar Wright actor. Yeah. Like that's one of, yeah. There is a tone that he knows how to do. And he knows how to be inside up. Yeah, and crushes it in Scott Pilgrim. He's so great in the movie. The performance is great. But in terms of basic, like scripting and character motivation

and explaining to you how we get from A to B to C, I was baffled. I was quite literally just no idea. So, you know, again, I blame the script, not the performances. As far as Glenn is concerned, like we have, we kind of remember movie stars and nostalgia. So we think as soon as Cruz took off, it was hit, hit, hit, hit, hit, hit, hit. And we don't remember that it wasn't like that.

No. It wasn't like that at all. So there are, this movie probably will be a hit. It probably will make a lot of money. But if people are going to look at this film, which I don't think is a strong display of his talent and use this as a referendum on him as a movie star, I think that would be unfair to him.

Because I think he's already kind of shown that. But in this film, he's miscast. To me, to me, in this film, it doesn't really, you wouldn't have put a young Matthew McConaughey in this role. And I don't think that. They might have tried and it wouldn't have worked out. Like many young Matthew McConaughey roles. It took him a second to kind of find his thing as well.

I do think one of the, there's two types of action stars, especially that are in the mold of these kinds of films. One is your typical Stallone Schwarzenegger tough guy. Like right now, Jason Statham is probably the height of that for us, right? He is probably the single most reliable mainstream lunkhead guy with a gun. That just kicks the shit out of you, kick you in your face. don't matter what it is, the concede is, hey, I'm an electrician, you fucking turn the lights out on the wrong family.

Everyone must die. Yeah, and the electrician would be a good film for you and I to write together. He's the electrician, yeah. You go to those movies to watch Jason Statham kick a guy in the neck. Like, that's the whole reason to go. And those movies are good for what they are.

I go to learn about the beekeepers and the rogue society that is upholed, you know? In the very best, to take down Hillary Clinton? I liked it. It's very good. In the very best of Jason Statham's movies, you get stuff like that.

There's another version of stardom, of action stardom, that Bruce Willis helped to bring along the kind of like fast-talking, I can't believe I got I'm in this shit kind of star. Mel Gibson was one of these stars. The guy with the gun, Jamie Fox has been a guy like this.

Like, there have been guys like this where you, it means that you can do every phase of movie stardom. It's not surprising to me that Glenn Powell wants to be able to be the guy with the gun in a movie. but maybe he's not a guy with a gun well I mean I think he could be the cowboy with the gun

I agree I think he could be Glenn in a western I would be fucking I think he could be the soldier with a gun I think he could be another western yeah let's just do shoot out at the okay crowd all over again if there was a World War II movie

where he had to be an army ranger like if he was in favor of Ryan he could be that guy with the gun but to be this role would have been perfect for young Actually, it would be a really good Private Ryan and saving Private Ryan. He can do it. He can be the Jackus, yeah.

Yeah, so, so it's really old for that. A young Bruce Willis would have been like really good for this role, super angry. Maybe his career didn't go the way he wanted. His next movie is a JJ Abrams. I think, I think it's a fantasy movie. Oh, okay. What's called? It's untit- Ghost Writer is the title now.

I don't know if that's actually going to be the final title. Not the Ghost Writer. Oh, yeah. What the fuck? I don't think it's based on that. If it's based on the Ghost Rider TV series, that's a wild choice by JJ. Are you saying Ghost Writer?

Writer. Righter. I thought you said, I was about to say, I would have heard of that. No, no. The Ghost Writer 90s TV show was incredibly important to me.

Unsurprising to learn that when you know what that show is. I liked it, too. I just want to say, I thought Coleman Domingo was great in this movie. It was fantastic. Every time he was on screen, I was having a lot of fun.

He really knew the assignment. I thought he crushed it. He had a lot to live up to because Dawson doing that part. was like very shocking at the time because It's a guy from Family Feud. Yes. Yeah.

And Coleman embodied it and was and did the whole nine. I thought it was great. Okay. So you didn't like it. You kind of liked it. I liked it. I was just kind of like shrug emoji about it.

Okay. Okay. You know? Why not? Movies. Movies. I will tell you what. You know who I like

no matter what he does? I think my one of my most these are my two most dependable guys right now. Okay. Denzel Washington Yeah Capital D, Dependable Okay, bold choice there

Josh Brolin I'm strong agree If Josh Brolin is doing his thing I'm fucking with it man I'm fucking with Josh Brolin If he's talking shit to people in Sicario I'm fucking with Josh Brolin when he's doing his thing

I'm fucking with it man If I just came into a pod wearing those veneers That Brolin is wearing and didn't say anything Would you guys let me get away with it Or would you mention it on the pod? No, no. Sean, what would you do?

Yeah, I did throw some walnuts on the table. They don't eat these. I'm trying to not comment. I'm just trying to go along with your ride, you know? Why? Be supportive of you. Are you going to get veneers? Is that why you're trying to hold off?

I also, like, I've tried about it. I'm not going to get them. But, like, I do. You're on an insane journey. No one knows what's going on inside of you right now. This is a crazy town. I'm like, I'm not going to do. do it because, no, I'm not.

I, like, I talk about all of these things. Have you more, like, getting a butt lift? Like, where are you at? Like, are you really going down the whole journey of potential change? The only surgeries that I actually would do would be, like, functional, so, like, breastlift because, like, I breastfed two kids. And it's just, like, it's just, it's a crime, you know? Like, they don't. Right.

But that's functional. But that is functional. Like, I just need somewhere to put them, you know? So, but veneers, I've thought about just because I'm like. I promise you if you walk in here with the videos, I will make mention of it on the pod. But like, what if I got, no, that's why I can't do it, right? And also, it's like not aesthetically for me, but like...

It also changes your speaking voice. I know. I'm not going to do it. I just like, we are all in front of cameras. I'm a man to do, man. Well, I'm not doing it. Sometimes, you know, you know people with veneers and you see them when they first come on and you just, you can't, you can't not...

It's all you think about. It's all you think about. I'm like... Even in this movie, I get obviously why the Dan Killing character has the veneers. But the whole time I'm watching Brolin, I'm like, what is in your mouth? So you mentioned Redford and we've been doing like a lot of, relax. We've been doing a lot of Redford prep. And so I've been watching a lot of older movies.

And I guess it was maybe I was rewatching, I don't know, but everyone just had, you know, perfect veneer teeth in like 1986 when I, whatever movie I was watching. And I was like, they all do look nice. No, I associated it with movie Star Teeth, and maybe I'd like to have movie Star Teeth, too. But I'm not going to. Good luck. As I said, I just think about it because we're in front of cameras all of the time, and they're not designed to support aging faces. Just like Ben Richards.

Yeah. On camera. Stop filming me. Stop filming me. Do you feel like the movie did a good job of maintaining the tension of his chase the entire time? For the most part, I do think it really slows down and falls into a, a really gnarly area when he stops Amelia Jones in the street. And then

I kind of got confused as to what the momentum of the movie was meant to be. So you were mentioning it too. It gets a little bit confusing. It is, again, it is like it's a very faithful adaptation all the way up until the end. And that may have just been a huge mistake

to be so faithful. Is the part where they don't shoot Ben and Amelia Jones, whatever, her character's name is. And then they get like waved through to the jet. That's all. Well, it's because he's suggesting that he has a bomb on him.

And that is also in the book. Right, right, right, right. He's saying he has an explosive device. But then the whole time, Killian knows that he doesn't. Because as soon as he gets on the plane. He has the shit on it. But then he's making this decision to offer him a role as a hunter. They could have given us more time with Lee Pace without his mask on.

I was wondering why he was wearing the mask the entire time because Lee Pace, you know, obviously he has scars his character in the film, but he's a handsome guy. Right. And they even acknowledged, like, when he finally takes his mask off, like the Ben character kind of, you know, jokingly cat calls him. And I was like, yes, that's what we're all thinking right now. But I- Annoying Mallory. She couldn't do that. She didn't like it. I mean, it just seems like it's a real waste of Lee Pace's time and handsomeness, personally. Well, I guess that'll do it for the running man. Any closing thoughts? Because I don't think you,

did you see now you see me? I've not seen that. Okay, I didn't think so. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But those movies hold a very, very special place in my heart. I just like magician shit. Yeah? Wow.

I do, I love magician shit as well. I'm not sure. Don't worry about it. Well, Amanda, I will talk about it. Okay, cool. It's great to see you. Are you telling me there are no tricks in the movie? They got to be tricks.

There's one, one trick scene. Okay, well, then they're fucking up. I'll check back when you guys. Do you have any other movie? thoughts now that we have you here. I don't know, I don't even know when you're going to be back. What do you want to come back for? Whatever is out there that, you know, you guys, it's always an interesting conversation to see you guys. This is one of my favorite things to do to just talk about movies.

You know, I am much like you guys in that I sometimes see things and I wonder like what we're trying to be told about the culture that we love so much and like how we should be thinking about it. And I'm not sure. I'm not sure how we should be thinking about it because there are a lot of interesting young stars, a ton of interesting young filmmakers, a ton of them, like so many people with so many different perspectives and all of this stuff. And I wonder if our brains even relate to film in the same ways that it used to, or if there's just so much other stuff in there now that we don't have the relationship to movies anymore like we use. I know some people do. I know that it is getting to be smaller and smaller, but I also

think the one other point that I wanted to make that worries me a little bit from the very top of this conversation is that Jennifer Lawrence and the Rock and all these big stars making these much smaller movies feels a little bit like when all the movie stars started shifting towards television. I remember that. And that kind of spiked TV in a bad way. We thought it was going to be good, but actually the best shows, The Wire, the Sopranos, Mad Men, Sex in the City. Like, we didn't really have like a huge relationship to the stars of those. shows before they became stars. But then when TV was like, it's very important that, you know...

Merrill Streep and Nicole Kidman and Nicole Kidman and Kate Winslet or these are your TV stars, something just kind of shifted and then that became the only way to make a TV show and it hurt TV, I think, in some ways. It does feel like TV is sort of evening out right now, which is more of a conversation that the watch can have. But for movies, I do worry if the life raft of independent cinema at scale for movie stars is where they all start going, that things are going to continue. to tip in a direction that is not sustainable?

Well, that's why I think it's very important for an established movie middle class. And I think it's like you have people talk about the event film. Well, we just go see the movie in the theater. That's all what we would do. We just go see the movie in the theater. The movie come out. Booty call come out. We go see the movie in the theater.

All right, Wu comes out. We go see the movie. The movie would be in the theater. You're only referring to black-led sex comedies right now. But I'm saying we would see them. Okay, you would see those two films We would go, but, you know, other movies as well Like, there are any other movies that you saw?

Joe versus the Volcanoes. You already talked about that. Like, well, all we talked about this, like, first night, these are movies with big stars and stuff, but we will go, and so now we just, all of the movies. A nice tale. Huh? Wooo is terrible. It has a special place in my heart.

Okay. Boone call is good. Yeah, booty call is hysterical. It's very funny. But like now, I think to what we're saying is like, you have the really important 824 movie that you can't be viable in film conversations if you haven't seen it.

And then you have the Minecraft or whatever film that is a fun, amusement part-time in the theater. Who is going to establish the good, worthed film in the middle that doesn't change the world but was cool and interesting to talk about that keeps, to me, film healthy?

I mean, this is the central problem. It's gone. And it is what, It keeps film healthy. It is what keeps grown-ups. See the robot lady movie companion.

Oh, yeah. But that's genre. They're just movies for adults that don't have to make a billion dollars, but that grown-ups would go see in theaters. It's just, it's TV now,

and it's dead, and it's sad. It was wonderful to see you. Yeah. Wonderful to see you guys as well. Thanks for coming on. I'll see you at Wicked. Exactly.

I'll be there. Okay, we're back. It's just me and you. Now we can really talk. Yeah. We can really say how we feel. I was going to talk about Keeper on this episode, which is Oz Perkins' new horror movie, which is an interesting movie that I kind of liked and had some notes on.

But I need to talk with somebody about it after more people have seen it because it very much hinges on how, what transpires in the plot. So to just sit here in front of you and tell you whether or not Keeper is good or great or whatever. I could see it. But then. then you might I don't know There's some things about it you would enjoy

Tatiana Maslani and Rasif Sutherland who is Donald Sutherland's son is very good in the movie but it is a little twisty and so I don't want to ruin it for you so you know we'll set aside keeper we'll talk about it later

at some point this month on the show we have to talk about now you see me now you don't now this is the third film and the now you see me franchise Yes. Van mentioned that he loves those movies because he loves magical stuff. Yes.

Do you love these movies? I've seen the first one. Okay. I haven't seen the second one. Okay. I remember very little of the first one and didn't revisit it before I went to see a screening of this movie, for which I purchased like an extra large glass of, I think it was Kim Crawford Sauvignon Blanc. I think that's what they were serving at the McGuffins.

Nice. Can you bring your cocktail from the McGuffins into the film? You can. Okay. And I did. I mean, this wasn't a cocktail. fail, it was wine. I checked to see if they had Campari, but they didn't. Is this a Burbank screening room?

No, this was Century City. So I drove across the city to see the magic movie. And then I said, I will have a large glass of vacation wine and watch the film Now You See Me Three. And that was the spirit that I brought to the film and I would say that the film rewarded me in kind.

I had a similar reaction. This film is directed by Ruben Fleischer. Yes. It returns the vast majority of the Now You See Me cast, including the four horses Jesse Eisenberg, Woody Harrelson, Dave Franco, and Ila Fisher. Yes. In addition to that, we're kind of getting into spoiler territory the minute we start

talking about it because there's some reveals about who comes back in the movie, but Lizzie Kaplan comes back in this movie, Morgan Freeman comes back in this movie. And then we have this new trio of magicians who are joining the cast, among them Dominic Sessa, who people may remember from the holdovers, Ariana Greenblatt, who is one of the stars of Barbie. Right. And Justice Smith. I had another, with Ariana Greenblatt, I spent 20 minutes trying to be like, who, what was she in? Who was she?

And then I was like, right, of course, Barbie. Barbie, Borderlands, she was in that film. I don't think you saw that one. So the logline of this movie is the four horsemen, this quartet of magicians, are reunited to recruit three skilled illusionists for a high-stakes heist involving the theft of the world's largest queen diamond from a powerful family crime syndicate. Now, the head of this powerful family crime syndicate is Rosamund Pike. Sure. I don't think this could have worked out any better for me and you.

No. And to spoil the movie further, Rosamond Pike is playing a South African diamond heiress and entrepreneur is a generous term. And she does a South African accent. And I did not know that until the movie started. And I was just like, first of all,

We need to get Chris back from London stat. It is the most diplomatic immunity movie of all time. Zoom Christopher in. And I was like, I can't believe that this is happening. And I was so happy. I was quietly cackling at every single line reading. She is amazing. She is having the time of her life.

Yes. She looks great. I literally, I would click through like a what, Rosamine Pike wore to be like a diamond villain in now you see me, now you don't. She's a Bond villain. It's a total Bond villain character. It's so funny and sets the tone for the rest of the movie. Everyone else is taking it like a little bit more seriously than she is, with the exception

of Dominic Sessa, who I thought was quite funny. Yeah, he was pretty funny. I mean, he's kind of doing an imitation of Jesse Eisenberg in these movies. And Jesse Isamurg is also, like, they're the most in on the joke on purpose. But good for her. Good for everyone who thought that this would be a funny thing to do because it was.

First of all, she's 46, she looks amazing. Second of all, she's having a blast. And the accent, I have no idea if it's accurate. It is extraordinarily entertaining to listen to. And these movies, I would say I don't have the most warm relationship to them because I love magic and I love heist movies. These are magic heist movies.

These should be the best movies of all time. And they're okay. They're okay. one is okay, two is less good Yeah Three I think is definitely better than two Maybe even better than one Though obviously less novel

It does have that interesting feeling Of a Bond film though Where it's sort of like The lore doesn't matter that much We're just kind of on to the next one You just have to have a familiarity with the characters And if you know that like Okay this guy is he's the illusionist

This is the mentalist This guy does card tricks and throws cards at you Like, if you just know, like, what M and Q do in the Bond movies, you're good. This is kind of the same thing. I do remember what any of them do, but then they just kind of like pop up. And then they're just like cards are flying somewhere or someone's. And I go along with it. I don't take magic as seriously as you do as a craft.

Well, I don't know if I take it seriously per se. You admire it. I admire it. I admire it, too. I do. It is like a performance and an art form. I don't know that much about the nuts and fun. bolts, and I'm not really trying to solve the tricks ever.

Well, and I'll say, nor do I. I am not a trick solver. And I never did magic. I never performed magic. I never tried to learn how to perform magic. What I like about it is the same thing that I like about movies, which is this feeling of how did they do that? I love that feeling. You know, even in a movie like The Running Man, which we had some notes about, there are

sequences in that movie where I'm like, ooh, like, how did he do that? How did he pull that off? That's my favorite feeling. So magic, when done well, it gives you that feeling. And it can be a big disappearing elephant illusion. But for me, more often, it's close-up magic. It's like things that are right in front of you. I love that.

It's really hard to put that in a movie. Right, because the answer to how did they do that, and otherwise, well, it's a movie. So they did movie magic or they did something or they CGI did. I agree. So it doesn't offend me as much because I'm not there being like I wish you were doing the close-up magic to me. But I would agree that the illusions in this film were not exactly.

like, you know, maybe they felt a little bit more like an arrested development reference. I agree with you. There was some jobe energy coming off of these tricks. There was also one set that was like almost literally the set of David Copperfield in Vegas. Which said? One of the times when they're doing like their pup-up magic show or something and I'm like, this looks alarmingly like an alien puppet is about to come out and start farting root beer or whatever before exploring daddy issues.

Spoilers for David Copperfield's live show. I, there's one major central set piece in the second act of the film where all the characters are led to a mansion and in this mansion they will learn what is really going on with this case that they're going to have to solve around this diamond that Rosamond Pike possesses and in that mansion they all get to perform their magic.

Right. And they all get to have a little set piece, showpiece. Right. This is what I do and this is the thing that I do and this is what I'm capable of. Yeah, yeah. It's like the getting the gang together montage but also the magic. It's like the 360 shot in the Avengers

of all of their powers getting ready to fight aliens but in this case it's just like here's how I throw cards at guys I enjoyed that it's almost comic book movie quality of this movie it definitely doesn't take itself

too seriously in the story until we get to the end and then there's definitely like a very heavy note that shows us why the movie is playing out in this way and who the real villain slash hero of the movie is I don't want to spoil that for people because that's not, it doesn't help us to talk through that anyway.

Like, it's not going to change how you feel about it specifically. No. It kind of worked. Well, I was like, oh, so that's why you did all of these things. And obviously, if I were thinking hard about it, I would know that that's why they did all these things. But it's a now you see me movie. So I thought we were just doing like a Bond villain take on everything. Yes.

I mean, it was fine. I didn't have a bad time. I really, I wonder how much time the original Four Horsemen or, or everyone besides Jesse Eisenberg spent on set. It seemed like it was maybe a one-to-do-two-day commitment for Woody Harrelson. I think part of the reason that the new crew, the new crop, has been injected into this movie, was to create some balance, you know? I don't, I believe Ila Fisher was not in the second now you see me,

so her returning to the franchise was kind of a deal. Isla Fisher, what do you think about her? The heels that she's wearing in this film are very, very high. I always wonder how someone can walk doing those. So I was very impressed with that. She is petite. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I just...

That's not a judgment on her performance or her personality as a movie star? I spent most of the time that she was on screen looking at the size of her shoes and being like, wow, that must be really hard to do that. So that, in a way, is a judgment on her performance. in this film. I was distracted by other things. She hasn't, you know, she was, I don't know if she was a big star, but she did carry a few movies,

confessions of a shopaholic, you may recall. I do. Obviously, arguably the funniest part of wedding crashers. Hasn't really been in a movie of note in a good long while, five or six years. And then this year she's got a voice in Dogman.

She's a cameo in the Bridget Jones movie. Yeah. She's got a... It was mostly cut out. Yes. It's like one scene, right? No, she's like, she's like the neighbor and you're like wait is that ila fisher but then it's like very clear that

they shot more that didn't um she's she's in j kelly for a hot minute yeah and she's in this movie play date which is actually the movie that i was thinking of when i was thinking of like what action movies are don't worry playday doesn't is not infringing upon your your big dreams um but this is an amazon prime movie that just came out last uh maybe yesterday and her her being back is kind of funny i guess she She just got divorced from Sasha Barron Cohen. I was going to say, yeah. Maybe she's back to work.

I think there are some financial changes in the home. Makes sense. Dave Franco, fine. It was funny when he was on the studio talking about being in these movies while being, you know, really stoned. They pay the bills. In character. Woody Harrelson's character is a mentalist. Yeah.

Do you know about mentalism? There was a show on CBS. Called the mentalist. Yeah. But do you know what mentalism is? I, no, I don't. Could you suss it out from watching these films? You can read people's minds?

Sort of. Sort of. They can sort of deduce truths based on information that is shared. Okay, so are you just like Sherlock Holmesing it? You're like a mind detective. Okay, so you're Sherlock Holmesing it. You're reading the clues. You're not actually accessing someone's brain.

Well, there's some debate about that. Say more. Well, I don't know more. By no means an expert in men, There's a very famous sequence in Hard Knocks, the series of where we follow an NFL team before the season starts on HBO. We is being like used very loosely there, but continue. We're a mentalist. I want to say it was the Cowboys season with Mike McCarthy.

That's right. A mentalist goes into the room. No, it was the Ram season with Sean McVeigh. A mentalist goes into the room before the season. And he reads all the players and makes predictions on the season. and he's extremely confident and he's able to pull dramatic information out of people

in real time in the room it's a very gifted mentalist and in retrospect like no one like I don't he didn't get like anything right during his predictions nevertheless watching it

was very entertaining this is how I feel about Woody Harrelson in 2025 okay like I'm not really sure what's going on under the surface here but I'm having fun I'm having fun watching you cook

I spend a lot of time trying to imagine like what his Maui green screen studio set up is like... He's on set for some of this, come on. He's on set for like three days. But the opening, which, spoiler alert,

it turns out that the Four Horsemen are holograms for the opening, but that was clearly structurally written into the text so that they had to spend less time actually there. Yeah, yeah. These movies are fine. I think they're like comforting in a way. Yeah.

Like I said, I didn't have a bad time. I went with a friend. We each got a glass of wine. I was like, okay, let's like go to the movies, you know? And it was a real go-to-the-movies type of energy in the room. Yeah. The question is whether that energy really exists for anyone under the age of 55. That is a question I wanted to ask you guys.

Very brief side. Hard knocks, Oz the Mentalist, New York Jets, Aaron Rogers, Sean. So you memory hold that. That must be why I remember it so not well. That's it. The question I had was, when this movie came out, I was 12 years old, it was like crack to me. I've probably watched the ending on YouTube 550 times. But now I'm 25, and I don't care at all about this movie.

I'd be fine if I never saw it. I think most people might age now. I feel like they kind of miss the boat a little bit. My question is kind of like, who is this movie for? Like when this came out in 2013, did adults aged 30 to 44 care about this movie and have a relationship to it? We saw it. I don't know if I saw it in theaters I mean I definitely did

I remember being very disappointed by it it has like a big dramatic twist at the end that's just like what how did that happen? Yeah. Regarding Mark Ruffalo's character in the first film. Sure, right.

And I remember getting like pretty middling reviews and there are some reviews that will tell you it's the worst movie of all time. It's one of those films where if you look at Letterbox you'll never see a more dramatic my favorite movie of all time to zero stars. Right. Because there's so much about it

that is implausible and stupid and everybody is cashing a paycheck very clearly. And if you like magic, it's not a great magic movie. If you like heists, it's not a great heist movie. But I disagree with the idea of the like, who is this for?

Because I think that this movie is actually going to do very well. And I think that there are people who are like, this is a reliable property to me and I know what I'm getting. I do also think most people, your age doc, who saw it at 13, have not ascended to the upper echelons.

of film snobbery that you have. Their favorite film is not die my love. We say that with pride. Yes. So, you know, you keep doing you. But do you think young people are going to show up for this movie? I do.

I went to a promo screening. No, obviously those are people who are actively interested. But there's like heavy laughter and applause at the arrival of characters that they remembered from the past. They're really trying to like marvel this up a little bit. I don't think it's going to be like a $300 million movie

or anything, but I think it's going to do pretty well. And I think it's going to do better than the Running Man, which I would not. have guessed that nine months ago. And I don't know, that's part of why I brought up this discussion about the juiceless fall. I was like, yeah, Predator Badlands is going to be okay. Those movies are not going to be a problem. Now you see me is not going to be a problem. They got in, they got grandfathered in. I was literally about to say IP that's grandfathered in is fine and it's everything else. Damn. Yeah. It's a tough way to go out.

Any closing thoughts that are more spirited and emotional? Like I said, I thought that the new generation was pretty good or fine. And it seems like maybe they're setting us up, you know. Would you watch five more Nye Seamy films? You know, they go to some interesting cities that I've never been to in this. I was like, oh, is that what Antwerp looks like? I guess it does, you know. What did you think about the Vanity Fair photographer?

I was like, yeah, that would be lovely if anybody, working in editorial were paid for that level of hotel and flight. You're saying it's not like that anymore? Well, I guess this is a private commission, you know? So your outside rates could be higher. But, yeah, no. Does Vanity Fair have staff photographers in 2025? I don't know what's going over there anymore.

Okay. Yeah. I'm going to guess no. Oh, that just about does it for us. Yeah. Now you see me, now you don't. Soft recommend. I don't know if you're there already.

Where already? Like near a movie theater. In Antwerp? Okay, let's go to my conversation with Edgar Wright. Edgar Wright, back on the show, first time in person. I know. It's nice to be here. You're real. I'm real, and so are you. I knew you were. I wanted to start with this. So I didn't realize this until looking at, your filmography last night prepping.

But since Hot Fuzz, you've gone English film, Hollywood film, English film, Hollywood film, English film. How do you see yourself now as somebody, do you see yourself as an English filmmaker? Do you see yourself as a Hollywood studio director? I don't know. It's a good question.

I mean, it's funny when people ask you sort of filmography questions because I think, I think I, maybe as I, like Brian DePalmer said once, that like, you know, most directors don't come, they can't curate their own filmography. You know, you're not necessarily... I mean, probably I think, you know, somebody like Chris Nolan can probably do whatever he wants to do

like in whatever order. But most sort of, you know, directors are sort of like doing the film that they can get made next. So there's no chance to really get any sort of like macro, like, you know, like view of everything. So, yeah, and it's also... I mean, the irony is as well, as you probably know, when we're in Los Angeles right now

with Los Angeles is a sort of drought of production here in the sense of the not many films get made in Hollywood anymore, which is, you know, maybe like 20 years ago when I made Sean of the Dead and, like, you know, you come to Hollywood to have a Hollywood career, but now that's all in inverted commas because Hollywood films get made all over the world. And, you know, the irony, why did filmmaking come to Los Angeles in the first place? Tell me. The weather. Yeah. Right. So because it started in New Jersey, right? And they were like, hey, we should go to California. It's sunny all year round. Then, of course, now it's like, hey, let's go and make something in London or Eastern Europe. The weather is, like, terrible for like half of the year. It's cheaper. But I feel like there's so many productions in Ireland now. There were like three times as many productions in Ireland as there were 20 years ago. Obviously, part of the reason for that is, you know, the tax incentives and all those things. But you're closer now to sort of the center of. of studio filmmaking being in Europe than when you're living here.

Yeah. No, totally. So it's a strange one, I think, probably for actors and filmmakers, you know, you don't have to come to Hollywood anymore to have a Hollywood career, whatever that means. I don't know. I mean, that's it. I just want to say a record.

I'd love to make a film at last time. Yeah. I think we've seen one bad after another. Like, it is good to shoot in California sometimes. There is upside there. Oh, yeah. And Eureka, California as well. Exactly.

It doesn't have to be Los Angeles. So your filmography I also think of as often in conversation with the genres that the films are working in, right? Sometimes in response, sometimes, you know, sort of like warmly satirical or admiring of something. The Running Man. Do you see that in the same way that you see Hot Fuzz or Baby Driver or movies where you're like, I see Edgar working in a tradition? Is the Running Man to you, your action film? How do you think about it? I guess, I mean, I guess I think about it as an adaptation of a book I read when I was a teenager.

And in a weird way, I mean, the thing, it's funny, like, because the book is sort of, you know, famously sort of fiery and gritty and intense, but also, like, very satiric and also incredibly prescient in terms of its satire. So I think if there is a sort of satirical streak in the movie, I mean, that's present in the book as well. And that's the thing that's exciting to kind of like sort of like, you know, like, you know, grab it between your teeth, you know. So I think when you're making, when I'm making a movie, I don't really think about the sort of the different percentages of like myself or the like original novel. You're just trying to make a good movie and, you know, those things. I can't like kind of like, it just comes out organically in a way. I don't really think about it too much. I don't know.

And you tweeted in 2017 that you wanted to make this movie. Was that when you trying to will it into the world? What happened? Well, I think it, you know, it's a question that would come up. It's one of those questions that kind of you get in junkets or like on websites say, if you could remake any movie, which movie would you remake? And I think maybe I was answering a fan question there. So it's not the first time I'd said it.

But actually, the reason that I said it is because, not because I had a desire, to remake the 1987 film, but because I had read the Stephen King, like Richard Backman book when I was a teenager, before I had seen the 1987 Arnold Schwarzenegger film, I was well aware that they hadn't really adapted the book at all. Like if you've read the book and you've seen the Arnold Schwarzenegger version, it's extremely loose adaptation and it's only really maybe some of the stuff on the game show itself is is the only thing that's even vaguely similar. He doesn't even have a family in the film?

None of that stuff is in the original film, right? No. And so it was more of the case of not necessarily, you know, my favorite remakes, and again, I don't really think of this as a remake. It's more like a new adaptation of the same source material. But my favorite remakes kind of, you know, take the ball and run with it. I mean, the perfect example is like David Cronerberg's The Fly, which is like wildly different from the 50s one.

And yet both are entertaining, and I love both films for what they are. In this case, it was something where I felt like, oh, there's actually like a Stephen King book that hasn't actually been adapted for the screen at all, you know? So, yeah, so I did say that. And actually, even before that, I actually had looked into the rights once before, maybe about 15 years ago after Scott Pilgrim,

I was sort of curious and it was complicated and they were unavailable. And then about four years ago, one of the producer, Simon Kingberg, emailed me and said, is it true that you have an interest in adapting the running man? And I was like, yes, he said, well, we have the rights. We should talk. And I said, yes, we should. It was sort of like, it never happens like that. It never happens that something you actually want to do appears in your inbox.

So that's very rare. I mean, it's never happened before. Maybe never happened again, I don't know. Let's talk a little bit about the book and adapting it. As you said, it's fiery. It's a pretty brutal book, even by King's standards. It's very intense, very violent. And it is prescient, as you said.

And it is set in 2025. Yeah, I only found out the other day, this is like going to start to sound like name dropping talking to Stephen. But we were doing an interview together. But I didn't actually realize that it was written in 1972. It was written in 72, and he said he sent it to a publisher who said, we don't do dystopian fiction. And so it just sat on the shelf. And he started releasing the books under Richard. Backman because he wanted to bring out more than one book a year and his publisher said you shouldn't

do that. So he said, like, I'm going to release these other works that are non-horror under like a different name. And as you probably know, like, Richard Backman, he always said is like his Richard Stark to Donald Westlake. Donald Westlake used to write under Richard Stark when he was in a bad mood. There's that great quote where Donald Wesley said, if I wake up and it's sunny, I write as Donald Westlake. If I wake up and it's cloudy, I write as Richard Stark. So, yeah, so there's definitely like the sort of the, the Backman books are in the Richest Dark mode. So, yeah, I mean, I think that's the thing is that I probably started reading Stephen King books when I was like 12 or 13. I did as well.

It is a life-changing kind of thing when you start reading those books. Well, I think the thing that's interesting about them, and the running man is no exception, is I started reading them. They're probably like the first kind of like adult, like, books that I read as a sort of. sort of gateway into kind of like grown up like fiction. And obviously because it's like fantasy, sci-fi, horror elements, but then the reality is the really eye-opening stuff is like the real life and the sort of the grittiness of them. And I think obviously what Stephen King is amazing at is the sort of the world building,

all of the world building that happens before the, you know, the genre element starts. And the running man is no exception. It's exceptionally well drawn. And even though it's a much leaner. novel. The Richard Backman books are generally pretty sort of like sharp and short, that it has an enormous amount of world building. And that's something that just really stayed with me, you know. And the other thing that really stayed with me and the other thing I really wanted to do in this film is tell it all from Ben Richard's point of view. So that you

stay with him the entire time. Because often in films of this ilk, even the dystopian game show, like TV shows and films. there'll be this tendency to like, oh, let's cut back to the studio, let's see what the baddies are up to. And even actually when we were working on the script, you know, after maybe the first or second draft, we get some notes from the studio saying, what about if we went back to the network building

and saw what Killian's up to? Or what about if we checked him with Sheila and Kathy? And we were like, no, we think it's really good if you stay with Ben. So why, though? Why was it important to do that just single perspective on the film? I think so you just feel like you're on the show, him. You live vicariously through him. And I just think it makes it more exciting and intense that you don't have any information that he doesn't. Like, you don't see what's around the

corner. And also, all he knows about the world is through the freebie. And what's on the freebie is not necessarily the truth. So, you know, he's on the back foot the entire time. I just thought it would make it like more exciting and intense to stay with him. Were there things that were not in the book that you felt that a film in 2025 would need? I guess it's just more about expanding some of the sort of scenes in the book a little bit. So, yeah, I mean, I think it was trying to sort of, I mean, that's a good question. But I think the other thing that there's a big part of the book that's not in the 1980s film is that the kind of the playground is the world. Like, it's like hide and seek on a national, even global level.

I mean, there's no rules to say that they can't leave the country, although you would assume it would be kind of difficult to, you know, get around even with fake ID. So it was always, and it's funny, when I was a teenager, and I enjoy the original movie. But when as a teenager I was, and I watched it, I was sort of disappointed that the area of play was more contained. It's mostly in that sort of subterranean arena.

It's almost like an abandoned hellscape, feel like. I think it's probably right around the corner from where we're recording this right now. I'm pretty sure it's in downtown L.A. under the L.A. freeway, right? I think you're right. But your movie is very different. It is in an extremely populous world, at least for the first half of the film, it's like we are in contemporary city life.

Yeah. Well, that was, I mean, what's funny? So when I saw the 1980s film and I was a little disheartened that it was on a smaller scale, at least the action, now having made the movie and shot in. 165 different locations I'd like to say to the makers of the night 87 film, I understand the practical decision you made. It was

a sensible decision and you probably got more sleep than I did. We've been talking on the show recently about how there are a lot of movies right now, one battle Eddington, Bologna, that are all kind of about you know, the idea that we're being controlled

and the way that the media and politicians and the nation state just kind of tries to lull people into a sense of relaxation so that they don't really work against what's really happening around them. That is the absolute core theme of this story and this film. And I'm just kind of curious, like,

why that appealed to you and maybe just the timing of it arriving right now. I mean, a lot of the timing is just coincidental. You know, it's even funny, before I saw one battle after another, I was sort of following, like, sort of the, on Instagram, PTA is not on Instagram. Obviously, he's too cool for that. But like Mike DeLuca, you know, the head of Warner Brothers is.

And I noticed every time he was posting about one battle after another, he was using the Gil Scott Heron song, The Revolution Will Not Be Televised. And eventually I, like, emailed him and said, hey, I haven't seen the film yet. But is that song in the movie, he goes, oh, yeah, it's on the end credits. And it's kind of references a motif throughout. I said, ah, it's in our film as well. And then when I saw one battle after another, I felt better about it. I was thinking, oh, it's actually the second song in the end credits.

And in ours, it's like an orchestral sort of cover. So it's not the same thing. But I was thinking, well, if there was any year, any calendar year where that song was going to show up twice, it's 20, 25. But as you know, like the Richard, well, you know about the book when it was set, right? Well, tell me. Well, so the Stephen King book, and again, written in 19. Even before it was published as Richard Beckman is set in 2025. Right. Yes, of course. Yes. And the 1980, the cover of the first Richard Backman paperback from 1982, the log line on the cover says, welcome to the year 2025, where the best men don't run for president. They run for their lives, the running man, Richard Beckman.

Now, the thing is, is that when we started working on this, so the email from Simon Kimberg was like in late 2021 and me and Michael Bacall start. working on it in early 22 and then there were a couple of drafts that Michael did and then there was a production strike in 23 and then early last year and this is something that a studio like has has never done because usually when you're making a movie and I want to say this not to say that making this movie was easy but usually you're pushing a project uphill and you're trying to get it made and then it was a very rare thing that happened was in early 24 I was sort of working on this other film as a sort of interim thing, because the running man was so big, I thought, well, maybe I should do this smaller film first. And then during the productions,

the actor and writer's strike, it completely fell apart. And Mike Island, who was then the president of Paramount Pictures, called me and said, why aren't we making the running man right now? And he said, you could be in production by the end of the year, and we could have it out in in cinemas at the end of 2025. And I was like, yeah, no, that sounds great. So it was a weird thing, like, usually, like, you're kind of like sort of trying to sort of, usually, and again, not to say it was easy, but usually like willing something into existence. But in this case, somebody actually, like, fired the starting gun.

So now to be sitting here with you, like, in the last six weeks of 2025 with a finished movie that I only finished a couple of weeks ago is wild to me. In the year in which Stephen King set the movie. And also, I asked him the other day, I said, why did you pick 2025 out of interest? He goes, it just sounded like a cool number. And it was far away enough. Like, he didn't think the Nessie was listening.

Well, also, it's that thing is like, we don't say what year it is in the film. And the reason we don't say what year it is in the film is I think most science fiction films don't go far enough. Like, as a fan, Like 2001, a Space Odyssey, one of my favorite films. I wish we were living in that 2001. Like, you know, 24 years later, we're nowhere near, like Kubrick's 2001.

Like, Escape from New York, the John Compton film, the start of it says, The Year is 1997. It's like, no, go further, guys. So I always think most films, I mean, you know, Blade Runner, I guess, the sequel, they kind of went far enough, but most of them, they don't go far enough. So I was thinking, let's just not say the year at all. Okay. that's smart. That makes sense.

So was the fact that you basically made this movie in one year, in what ways did it help the movie? Because that's unusual to have to, that breakneck pace is really strange, especially for a movie of this scale. No, it's not my biggest and most complicated movie. I mean, I'll say this is, I couldn't have done it without working with a lot of regular collaborators.

That was, I mean, and, you know, like all movies that I've done we kind of like prep the shit out of it and just you know you want to kind of go in with like sort of like a really good plan even if obviously you know there's always something that kind of throws a spanner in the works and you have to kind of like pivot but like you've got a really solid plan and we prepped really as much as we could but also the prep was kind of shorter than actually previous movies like usually you do have like three months prep with a whole crew we had two um I mean I can't quite believe that we put off as well but I I think really, like, the key to it is that there are a lot of regular collaborators

and people I've worked with before. Some new people that I, on the crew, that I'd not worked with before, like the costume designer Julian Day and the stunt coordinator and Nikki Berwick. But most of the people I'd worked with on other films, and that was obviously, not to say that I couldn't have done it with all new people, but enormously helped to have a shorthand with regular collaborators. And so, you know, it's a... film with a lot of moving parts. We didn't finish

filming until the end of March, so we didn't start for editing until the start of April. And, you know, it's got lots of effects in it as well. Yeah, I have some questions about that. I mean, ask me. Well, you know, I think that visual effects are in a complicated place in movies in general. I think

a surprising number of movies, just from my untrained eye, have weak visual effects. Your movies historically have very good visual effects. And I know that you try to do as much in camera as you possibly can, but also in all your films, I find that the visual effects work is really good. But the idea of finishing filming in March and then having good visual effects seems a little scary. How do you do it, I guess, is my question. I think it's, the idea is, and why, if you notice in some films, we won't mention the names,

but if you notice in some films that, like, they've got, like, wildly variable special effects, it's usually because they're, like, changing it right up until the wire. And obviously, there have been lots of stories, like, exposés in the VFX. community complaining about this, the people are like working stupid hours at the 11th hour to sort of change a whole climax to include some other, I feel like I'm sort of like, I feel like I feel like I'm sub-tweeting now. I'm not going to say the word. But with this, because we had this kind of schedule, it's like Andrew Whitehurst, it's actually my first time working with industrial light and magic, but the supervisor, Andrew Whitehurst, worked on Scott Pilgrim. So when

His name came up. And in fact, the reason I went to talking about special effects, one of the films in the last couple of years, I was really impressed by the effects work was the creator. And Gareth Edwards is a friend of mine. And so I actually picked his brains and said, talk me through how that worked. And we sort of employed a similar thing with the location work is like shoot on real locations and do like production design for the ground floor. And then as it goes higher, then you can go into your amazing kind of like VFX Escher world.

Okay. So that was the idea, is always shoot on location. And in fact, the location manager, Eugene Strange, another person working with for the first time, who's like Jonathan Glazer's guy, an amazing location manager. Literally the first thing we did on the movie is me and him and Marcus Rowland, the production designer, just like walked around the cities that we were looking at to find the, you know, not just the brutalist stuff that would work for the downtown areas, but all of the new kind of high-rise stuff of the, you know, the,

the uptown more sort of advanced areas. And so, you know, and obviously this is something that goes back to so many great movies and great dystopian movies use kind of existing architecture. You know, THX-1138 is a great example of that. Also probably shot just around the corner as well. You know the one actually that I re-watched and I actually, now like re-watching these dystopian sci-fi films, I was usually looking at it on a practical level and things I didn't notice as a kid or I didn't really look into how they were made or there wasn't

the internet then. I was watching Rollerball and when I was watching that, I was thinking, where are these locations? Where was this shot? And it's like, oh, this is Germany. It's going to say it looks like Europe. Yeah. It's like, but it's Germany. But it's like they shot kind of like, I think Houston and Los Angeles in like sort of brutalist Munich. I think it's Munich. It's definitely in Germany. Or like Brazil, like a movie that I love. And I knew that there were London locations in it and sets, but there's also like some shooting in France. Some of those like when Jonathan Price goes to visit those apartment blocks,

those are not sets. That's like that is a sort of mid-century apartment block in France. So with all those things in mind of looking at ways to kind of like use existing architecture and then expand it. So, you know, so yeah, so I talked to Gareth Edwards about the creator and I was just like sort of wanted to sort of pick his brains and that was exactly what they did on that film is use existing locations and then kind of expand on it, you know?

I think you've always had a great knack for action choreography, but this is on a significantly different level. Oh, thank you. Really amazing. I was hoping maybe you could talk me through designing a sequence. So like the Boston sequence in particular, I think is unbelievable. Oh, with the car? Yeah.

Well, and the VA hotel. and all that stuff is... You can see me getting exhausted as soon as you mentioned it. I got PTSD as soon as you mentioned it. It's literally like I don't know how they did that situation. The low of moving parts. So can you talk maybe about design

and then design versus execution? Like when you think something is going to be and then how achievable it is when you're confronted with the physical production? I think that sequence in particular, the kind of like the sequence in the YVA and the sort of halfway house that he's in is there's so many elements to it.

it like because there's like sets there's like his his bedroom there's the hallway there's the the second floor there's an elevator then there's like a roof set then let's go like a real exterior set um and we shot some we shot in london and we shot a bit in glasgow and then at the end of the shoot we shot in bulgaria and in bulgaria they have a lot of like exterior sets standing. One of them actually, there's one bit where he walks into kind of like a mansions, like a sort of unfinished houses.

It was literally like an advert set that was just standing there in the middle of a field and a volcano set. We should use this. We should make this the location, right? But in the case of the YVA sequence, it was, in terms of designing it, one of the things, and this goes back to the adaptation that was like a,

a through line that helped you kind of like focus everything is like it has to revolve around ben richards so you have to be kind of with him the entire time so it kind of helps focus how the stunts are going to work how the cinematography is going to work what glenn can do Glenn, you know, is like so gung-ho. He wants to be, he'll do any stunt that he can do and safely. So, you know, myself and Nikki Berrick, the stunt coordinator, are sort of designing it around that and thinking about how can we utilize our main actor as much as possible and have him front and center, you know, and he's not in a mask in the movie.

And, you know, obviously we have amazing stunt doubles as well. But he's doing a lot of his own stunts, as you can probably see in the film. So I think that's it. It's just design and prep in terms of like starting with storyboards, then maybe animatics with the storyboards. Then, you know, you can draw stuff, but then you still have to sort of do it with bodies in motion. Yeah. So you don't really do like CG previs that much. I don't really like that. But like doing stuff with like a video camera and the stunt team so they can like literally like run through it and see how it works with people actually doing it. And then and then you shoot it. it's like an it's an amalgam of these things and you're just kind of um you know just i mean there's no version of it on an action film with like sort of special effects when i say special effects i mean physical effects where you're coming on to the set and winging it like sort of you sort of have to kind of like work out what you're doing and you know because of the schedule

constantly there would be things where we'd be shooting like that yVA scene but there'd always be like a meeting for an hour before call and afterwards. And as some sequences, I get kind of like just the hives thinking about like the, you know, I think it's a good thing to go to work with some kind of low-level anxiety. It's probably a good thing because I think the day that you go to work very complacent and say, ah, yeah, we got this. It's probably the day that you should quit being a director. But when I think about the basement scene in the YBA, my main thought of it is, you know, is that every day would be like, hey, we've got to go and meet at the basement at 7 o'clock in the morning to talk through how the fire effects are going to work.

And so, like, you know, to actually see like the finish kind of like scene or like seamlessly coming together, hopefully seamlessly, I'm putting, not trying to put words on you, ma'am. No, it is. But seeing it all together, like, with so many different moving parts, it's such a rush because the amount of work that goes into it is enormous, you know? Yeah, I kicked this to Joseph Kaczynski earlier this year because we were talking about F1, but some years ago I did a piece about Michael Bay,

and I talked to James Cameron for the piece, and James Cameron said, Michael Bay is an incredible filmmaker because the big train set is the hardest thing to do as a kinetic filmmaker, or somebody who's trying to make, maybe not action movies, but movies like that. He said, Bay is amazing at the train set.

And the train set seems really stressful. Like, anytime you're trying to do, when you know you have like a centerpiece in your film and you want people to walk out of the movie, you're like, God, that part was incredible. But you said low-level anxiety is a good thing in doing those. I say low-level, sometimes high-level anxiety. I mean, I think, listen, I got to say as well on record, because I want anybody out there to say, oh, bitching a moaning about making a movie, these are champagne problems to have. I'm very, very grateful to be working, number one. But it is a thing when you're making a movie is that they would say you've got to go into

like a movie scared of something. And this I think had like several set pieces where you got to figure out how to do it. And like even on a, you know, like we had a good schedule. But it's always the sort of the ambition of the movie is more than the time and the money you have. So then you're just really having to be like super focused about that there's no like fat.

It's like the way it's designed. I mean actually, You know, because we've been doing this sort of Blu-ray stuff at the same time. And, like, there's some deleted scenes, but there's, like, everything's in there. Yeah. You know, and, like, and we didn't kind of shoot any extra stuff. Do you know what I mean? And it's also something, I think, the way that you shoot is, you know,

it's kind of what the sort of the old Hong Kong method of, like, you're, you're shooting, the piece that you're shooting of the action is the only angle for that piece. It's not like you're shooting a masterwide and then the midshot. then the close-up, you're kind of like designing it piece by piece by piece, which is both, you know, in some ways more complicated. In some ways it makes it kind of easier because you're only shooting something once, but then also it kind of has to work and it has to edit together as well. So it's both like sort of simpler and potentially more risky at the same time.

So even just like talking about it is giving me the high, Sean. But so how do you know it's going to cut together? Well, that's something that most people don't think about. But if it doesn't work, the whole thing goes like this. Paul Matchless, my amazing editor, who I've worked with since Spaced, you know, like the TV show I did before Sean and the Dead. Since probably we started doing it on Scott Pilgrim, but then from sort of the world's end onwards,

and particularly on Baby Driver last night in Soho and this, we edit on set. And mostly, if you have a dialogue, scene, you know, that's, you know, as long as you've got it, you've got it. But like, especially with like transitions, especially with action stuff, as you're editing it together on set, just to make sure that it works. And also with a script supervisor, so does the continuity work. And so at least you're able to see if there's an issue or something where you need an extra shot to tell the story. You're able to kind of like, you know, like adapt it and sort of,

and modify it. And sometimes that would be something that you do way later. You watch the finish thing and it's like, it'd be really great if we had like one more shot of him putting his hand on the gun. And like, you know, like weeks and weeks later, you just get like an insert that kind of like sort of suddenly makes the whole piece work. And it's an ongoing sort of like process. But yeah, that helps.

You don't really want to. And it's definitely something that I think has been a real benefit. to do that throughout the shoot. And also, I think probably a way, in answer your question of how you can finish the movie and the effects, is that you're getting ahead of yourself. And, you know, again, because it's like designed in such a way of like, okay, this shot of Glenn running down the hallway away from the camera and away from the bullets and sliding into the elevator, there is only one.

This is our favorite take and this is it. So because you've sort of done that through production, you can, there. and hand that over to the VFX people and say this is the shot. So he's on set with you then when you guys are writing it together? Okay. And that's unusual. I mean, we hear these stories about Soderberg like cutting the movie in real time while he's making it but how often is an editor on

set during film production? Well, I always used to be against the idea like initially but then it was when we were doing Scott Pilgrim because we had to sort of edit together the action to make sure that it worked and it just was incredibly useful and it just

it really just It's also a wild thing for some actors. Like, when we were shooting the scene with, like, Glenn and Michael Sarah, you know, you could say at the end of the day, say, hey, do you want to see what we've done today? And kind of show them the sequence with the song that's in the finished movie. Yeah. And they could sit back and go, oh, wow.

Like, sort of like, oh, this is it. Like, this is not just what we did today, but like, here it is, you know? Obviously, you keep, I mean, not to say that you don't keep working on it and finessing it, but um it's it is it has especially for something like this and especially for action or anything with choreography it's a similar thing with music stuff like obviously in baby driver and last night so there's so much music choreography and if you're you know it's you're going between setups you need to make sure that kind of things are on beat or on step or like that it works within the kind of the piece but it's the same with action and it's a really it's a really

great resource to kind of just keep sort of like um working on it as you're doing it and seeing what things work and seeing where there's a problem or seeing where you need an extra bit of storytelling, you know? I'm curious here you talk about Glenn. We've been rooting for Glenn on this show since it started, and it's been kind of fascinating to watch it happen. You know, like he is becoming the thing that I know he wants to be and that is rare now. There's not a lot of leading men under 40 who can carry a movie who can do a lot of different kinds of parts, who can do a lot of different tones inside of one movie, why was he been for this film? Oh, I mean, I feel so lucky that it was like

the right guy at the right time, because I was a fan as well. And like, you know, first through the Richard Ling later films. And then obviously kind of like Top Gun was huge for him. But it was actually like, we'd already been working on the script. And as it, like, I got that call from Mike Island about like, why aren't we making this movie right now? It was just like, as Glenn was kind of like really starting to pop. And so when his name was in the mix, as they say, you know, with a big budget film like this, it's something like you might have ideas of who you want to be in it, but also the studio would definitely have a list of like who they would green light the movie with.

And I was given that list of saying, hey, these are the kind of people we would consider in this role. And Glenn was on that list. And that made me very excited and happy because I knew him a little bit. And I was a real fan of him. Hitman had been out. And I had seen it at the London Film Festival. And there's a funny thing.

This is before his name was in contention for my film to play Ben Richards, is I had seen Hit Man at the London Film Festival. And it was during the SAG Strike. So he wasn't there. It was that festival period where no actors were promoting their movies. Richard Linkley was there, but Glenn was not there. And because I knew it, I was at the screening and you're sitting there and there's the big graphic that says,

you know, London Film Festival Gala, Hitman. And I took a photo of it and I sent it to him. And he was in, you know, he was back in like Austin. And he said, he goes, oh, man. He goes, I wish I could be there tonight. And then he sent the second text. He said, consider this my audition tape. There was the text.

Now later, later, when his name was in like sort of like in the mix, both me and Michael Bacourcourt were just like, he's the guy. And the reason that he's the guy is the only person on the list who hadn't already played a superhero or a trained killer. He's playing a fake hitman in hitman. That's true. And it's a thing I think where it's a difficult thing in an action movie where you need to believe in this movie

that Ben Richards is a guy off the street. He's an out-of-work dad. He works in construction, so it's not like he's not tough or he has a thick hide, but he's not a cop like in the 1988-7 movie or a military policeman in that. or he's not a trained killer he's not an amnesiac who has special like sort of

like fighting skills no born situation um crab maga that's the word I was like it was just in my head it was like what was the name of the fighting style crab magar he doesn't know crab magar he's not a superhero and the thing is

is that most people on that on that list the other names are all people who had done all of those movies they're saying well I've seen seen them do this movie I haven't seen Glenn do this movie. And it made me think about, even in Top Gun Maverick, it's like, that's an action film, but it's not the same kind of thing. And, you know, you think back to the first diehard, before that came out, Bruce Willis is the guy from moonlighting. And I'm sure probably at the time, there was probably some kind of like raised eyebrows about the guy from moonlighting

in an action film. Oh, I think there was, for sure, yeah. Going up against Stallone and Schwarzenegger is like the moonlighting guy. And then, of course, after that film, he's Bruce Willis, you know, the action star the same i think with like actually matt damon before he did the born identity um so those things were sort of like thinking about that and uh and and you know so i just when glen's name was i we just we and we and we said to paramount we said we love the idea of glen glenn would be perfect for this and they said and mike island and the people of parliament said we love glen you know so and then this is another thing this is the second text from glen pal usually in this situation when people are in sort of contention for something, you never hear from them

because they're not going to, you know, sort of embarrass themselves to get in touch. You might hear from the agents. But I remember being in my like sort of like house where me and Michael Bacour were writing. And I remember getting a text from Glenn. He said, hey, I'm not sure if this is true or not, but I heard my name might be in the mix for the running man. And if it is, I just want say to you, I would like do everything to work on this movie and you'll never work with an actor who works harder than me

I'd promise you that. And you know, he was true to his word. It was sort of an amazing text to get. And it was like, sort of like I said, and I was like, you know, you had me at hello, Glenn. I said, you already have the part. Ironically, what's funny?

And I didn't know this. I sort of, we basically gave him the part and then somebody from the studio said, oh, you know, Stephen King has cast approved on some of the main parts that, oh, I didn't know that. And so I talked to Stephen about it and I said, you should watch Hitman. So Hitman wasn't out yet. So I got him a link to watch Hitman and then he watched Hitman and he goes, oh yeah, great, fantastic. Yeah, there's a surprising amount of, you know, disguise work and costuming. And there is like a little echo of Hitman, at least in the first half of your film too. I know it's funny that through like multiple

movies, Glenn, it's like he's like sort of the new Peter Sellers or something. What do you I think that is. Why does he like that? I mean, that was already, as a coincidence, it was already in the script and it's in, you know, like the book as well, that like he has like different kind of like disguises. I mean, the thing that is funny about it, and maybe in a similar way to Hitman, because what's fun about Hitman is that first moment where you see him very quickly have to, but he suddenly becomes like a movie star in that first scene. What we liked in this is like a couple of incidents.

incidents where um you feel like he's trying out the accent for the first time yes he's not good at it well yeah it's like it's like when you you know sometimes if you try and do an impression of a celebrity and you've never actually done it out loud before and so we all sort like that when he's like playing like a businessman as the train station he's sort of doing his kind of uptown voice and it sort of comes out of this kind of strangulated weird like non-glen voice and then also like he does an irish accent later and I said you've got to do it like you're doing an irish accent accent out loud for the first time. It does sound like that too.

It was nice to see you and Michael reunited as well. Oh, what a joy. That sequence is also quite crazy. Yes. And seems like, again, how much, I don't, is that, is all of that in the book? Like when you're thinking about adapting something like that? Not quite. It's similar, but the action is different.

And also, I don't want to ruin anything because of the, like, you know, who the liability is is not quite the same. It's something that's a little bit different from the book. But the mother is in the book. And yeah, so it's kind of similar, but not quite the same. No. What is your favorite aspect of filmmaking at this point? I think the thing is that, you know,

filmmaking is really sort of like, it's really tough making the movie. So it's very, it's not frequently that you get to enjoy it as you're doing it because it's funny people say ask you they say oh you know when you've done this kind of like shot you guys look like you're having so much fun and you think you think about all the scenes in the films that you did that eventually become maybe people's favorite bit or their funniest bit in the movie but when you're actually shooting them you never stand around high-fiving each other and patting yourselves on the back usually as soon as you've done the

shot you go okay so now we're going to move the camera over here and then we're going to move the camera over there. So I think probably the part, I wish I enjoyed the process more, but that kind of goes more to that thing of like the idea that, you know, having the constant butterflies in your stomach of wanting it to be as good as it is in your head. You know, you want to live up to the film that's in your head. So you're kind of setting the bar for yourself. And usually it's that thing where you talk about the ambition of the film, I can't really blame

it on anybody else. You kind of, you've set the bar yourself. So you can't stand there on set on a really tough day and curse the heavens. Because you say, whose idea was this to make it this complicated? It was my idea. And I think on this film as well, like even on top of this, it's like, you're always trying to live up to the movie that's in your head, especially if it's a book that you loved when you were young and has stayed with you.

It's like, oh, I've got to like, I've got to like do the best version of this. But so you're living up to the movie that's in your head. But also in this case, Stephen King. also had to sign off on the adaptation. So we sent him the adaptation. I sent it to him very late because we'd actually emailed over the years, but I didn't want to send it to him too early because I didn't want to be like the boy who cried wolf because it would be too heartbreaking to send it to Stephen King and him like it and then the film fall apart. So I did it as late as I could when I knew it was probably going to happen. And he loved the adaptation and he was very,

very generous in his praise and loved what we kept and loved what we changed. Great. But now it adds a new pressure. It's like, now I have to live up to the film. This is Stephen King's head as well. I have to make it, I have to make the film that he read. So you're kind of putting a lot of pressure on yourself. So it's like, so throughout the shoot, I kind of feel like I don't have as much fun as I like to, but then maybe that's not the point.

I actually always remember, like, when I was making Baby Driver, John Bernthel said something to me that really stayed with me is that John Bernthel is in that opening sequence, which is a very complicated sequence. And because it was a complicated sequence and there were various issues, we kept having to shoot that sequence throughout the whole movie. And most of the actors were run of show except John. So poor John Bernthal had to fly back and forth from L.A. to Atlanta about like eight times. And on the final day of the shoot, he was actually there on the last day of the shoot. And it was finally rapping his character. And I said to him, I said, hey, John, I just wanted to apologize.

to you. I know that you drew the short straw in terms of like coming back and forth and obviously a really complicated sequence. I swear to say, I really appreciate the fact that you like kept coming back. And John Bernthas said, hey, if this shit was easy, every asshole would do it. And I'm thinking words to live by. If this shit was easy, every asshole would do it. That sounds just like John Bernthal too. I've never done a John Bernthor impression out loud and I immediately regretted it. Well, you didn't quite get his essence, but no one really else could. How's your Bluroy collection doing? You really, during COVID, you were putting some of us collectors to shame.

Yes. But I have this kind of like, it makes me feel I sort of have this kind of existential crisis when I look at them because I started to think during the pandemic thinking, I'm never going to watch all of these before I die. Yes. I have that too. But how do we get over that? Well, you know what I started doing, this is so silly, is that I'm a secret letterbox. user. I don't have a public account and I don't rate movies. I just use it to kind of log what I've

watched and more over like make lists of what I want to watch. I started to make a list of like, first I had a list of everything that's in the house that I haven't watched. And then I started to kind of make it bigger. It's like just everything that I own on physical media, I just have a list of it on letterbox. And of course, then you have that thing where you think, oh, I can change the ratings. I can figure out what is the highest rated film according to level. users that I have in the house, then as soon as you see that and say, this, this is the, this is the best film I have in the house that I haven't watched. But of course, what's the next thing you do? What's the worst film I have? And then like a fucking contrary bastard, it's like,

let's start watching the worst films. So I don't know why I keep doing that, but I have. There are so many of you filmmaker, Letterbox, lurkers, that you're not, you're not showing yourself, but you are present. You're there doing something. I just, I learned very, early on in my career, and I'm always stunned when I see like screenwriters and directors and actors do this, is like never badmouth anybody publicly. There's absolutely nothing to be gained from it. You look like a dick. And, you know, I learned my lesson early on because when we were doing press for Sean of the Dead, me and Simon Pegg, in a very good-natured way, was sort of taking the piss out of Richard Curtis a little bit. Because Sean of the Dead is sort of

of like a piss take of rom-coms in a way. And so we made some comment like, I think we said things like, oh, if you, it's like Love Actually being shot through the head by George Romero. Or I think I said in some like thing, I said, if you ever watch Love Actually and thought more people should die, which is a really dumb thing to say when Bill Nye is in your movie. Anyway, we were being cocky. And of course, what happens next? You meet Richard Coo. And he's the nicest guy of all time. And I actually apologize to him. Of course, he hadn't even read the quote.

He didn't know what I was talking about. But I felt like such a sort of like piece of shit. So then from that moment on, it's like, you know, I've got plenty to say about other movies. And I'll talk to you about over coffee. But you'll never find me doing it publicly. Understood. We end every episode of this show by asking filmmakers,

what is the last great thing they have seen? So if you've been logging on letterboxed, what do you, what have you loved? You know what? Well, I love one battle after another. But I saw a bunch of things at the London Film Festival, which surprised me, given that I was still finishing the movie two weeks ago. I really loved No Other Choice, the Park 10 week film. I actually had read that book. I read The Axe by Donald Wesley.

Yeah, Donald Wesleyke, speaking of, that's right. And it's funny, when you read that book, I read that book, it's funny. And I thought, this is like the best film that Cohn Brothers never made. Why has nobody made this as a movie? Then I discovered, I've never watched the French version that Costa Scabras made. Oh, I don't even know about that. Yeah, it's called The Axe. And then I loved his version.

I also really loved Pillion. Have you seen it? You're the second person in a row to recommend it. It's fantastic. And I saw it and tell your ad and it was amazing. Actually, Ryan Johnson said he was like, that was my favorite thing I've seen recently too. It's so good.

It's so good. Harry Leighton, is that the director's name? I've read somewhere that it's getting cut in the United States, which is like it would be terrible. No, because of what's the content? Well, yeah, it's explicit sex in it. But, like, this is what we want, kids. It is what we want, but it's such a sweet movie despite that.

I find it heartbreaking. There's a, I won't spoil it, but there's a moment towards the end that has kind of like haunted me. I think it really like sort of just like a heartbreaking movie, but funny and just fascinating. And like the performances just like Alexander Scar's Garden. Is it Harry Mell. Melling, Melling, Melling, of course, yeah, from Harry Potter. Amazing. Amazing. Leslie Sharp, everybody, great. I love that movie. I thought it was fantastic. Great recommendations. Congrats on the running, man.

I thank you very much. Nice to see you in person. Thanks to see you in person. Thank you to Edgar Wright. Thank you to Van Lathen. Thanks to our producer Jack Sanders for his work on this episode next week. Amanda and I will dig into two new Richard Linklater films. New Velvog, which hits Netflix this weekend, and Blue Moon, which is in theaters, starring Ethan Hawk. What else are we going to talk about? Anything else? I haven't thought of it yet.

Okay. But, you know, maybe we'll just do like a 45-minute teleprompter, tell a straighter or breakdown of the Devil Wars Product 2 trailer. That's honestly a good idea. Honestly, and so just... You should prepare for that. Should we just do like emotional therapy check-ins with me throughout the five months leading up to Devon's product too?

Is that not what this show is on a regular basis? Yeah, to be honest, we mostly talk about your emotions, but it's fine. We can minor, minor ready. Mine are ready as well. We'll see you next week.