The Big Picture - The Kevin Costner Hall of Fame

Episode Date: June 25, 2024

With ‘Horizon: An American Saga’ on the … horizon … Sean and Amanda build the Kevin Costner Hall of Fame by running through Costner’s entire filmography to try to narrow it down to 10 movies. From the cowboy, to the athlete, to the spy, and back again, this filmography (and this episode) is a journey! To watch episodes of ‘The Big Picture,’ head to https://www.youtube.com/@RingerMovies. Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Senior Producer: Bobby Wagner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Y'all, it's the Midnight Boys. Pew pew pew! And we're opening up the kitchen again to talk about The Bears Season 3, returning to Hulu on June 27th. That's right, the Midnight Boys are taking over Prestige TV. How you feeling, cousin? Cousin! New restaurant, new takes, new ups, new downs, new season.

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Try it today and get up to $75 in PC Optimum Points. Visit Superstore.ca to get started. I'm Sean Fennessy. I'm Amanda Fennessey. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about Kevin Costner. Later this week, we will be digging into Horizon, an American saga, chapter one, which is the new Western epic from one of Hollywood's most enduring leading men, Kevin Costner. The film has been a subject of much controversy because of the way Costner has independently financed it.

But as you will see from our construction of this hall, this is an actor, director, and force of the movies that is not afraid to defy expectations and take massive risks. Kevin Costner, when I say his name, Amanda, what do you think of? Well, baseball and dudes, essentially. But a complicated concept of the dude.

A dude at war with himself. A dude at war with the definition of dude. A dude at war at what other people think about dudes. I think he would have a lot of thoughts about the dudes rock canon. And how dudes rock. Did any of his movies make it? No, absolutely not okay because i think kevin costner himself maybe not the actor but certainly the the director producer the the film

visionary and the self mythologizer um looks for different things in dudes then then then certainly everybody else yeah it's more of a it's like a this is is the Kevin's rock canon or Kevin rocks. But also, does he? Yeah, we'll get into that. Fascinating person. Much more fascinating than I realized before embarking on this experience. I mean, this has been insane. Yeah. Because a tremendous number of films. And also, because of our specific age and his, it's a very unique time period that I feel I at least was two years late to. Like, the true Kevin Costner era is 85 to 93, if you want to be generous. And we were seeing movies, but I really, I think I came of moviegoing age in 95. So I've seen all the classics, but I was not, you know, present for the real, like the heyday of Kevin Costner runs Hollywood. And I was present for Kevin Costner would like to run Hollywood again. And how's it going?

Well, to me, I have a somewhat similar relationship, which is I'm just a little bit older than you. And so when I was really starting to pay close attention to Hollywood and reading magazines about what was happening with figures like Kevin Costner, it was when things started going hard downhill. It was Waterworld and The Postman. Yeah. And those movies being these kind of epic apocalyptic disasters.

And his narrative really turned on a dime, but not being someone paying attention to it when he was in that golden period that you just described, which is one of the golden periods in the history of movies. It's an unbelievable run. So anyway, preparing for this podcast, which is a tremendous the golden periods in the history of movies. It's an unbelievable run. So anyway, preparing for this podcast, which is a tremendous number of movies. It was a lot of work over the month.

Yeah. Yeah. But it was fun. And I think, and we have been doing it. And I would text you in like an either, like a real high point or like a real low point of the watching experience and going back and forth. And there is a tremendous amount

to unpack. A truly bizarre career. Yeah. You said self-mythologizer, and I think that that's right. I think both in the way that he navigates the press over the last 40 years, plus the kinds of stories that he's interested in telling. I mean, I've cut this into two parts, which is there's Kevin Costner, the sort of movie icon and maverick, and then there's Kevin Costner, the sort of movie icon and maverick. And then there's Kevin Costner, the actor and movie star. And those things are really complicated. And the framework that I was thinking about it in, and this really only came actually from texting with your husband yesterday, who profiled Kevin Costner in GQ, which is that there's... Why can't anyone include me in the actual podcast prep

that's happening in my home? Because I was only asking him a question. I was asking him a question about his experience and it led to a conversation. But there's how he sees himself as a director. And then there's how every other director sees him. Yes. And they're so different. It's remarkable how different they are. But because he had tremendous, sort of unprecedented directing success so early with Dances with Wolves, and he wins both Best Picture and Best Director, he has given in his career so many chances to extend his own version of who he is

and keeps hitting a wall with it. Yeah, yeah. And so, but still, because he's Kevin Costner, really, really keeps trying and still is also taking work from other people. And so the, oh, this is a Kevin project versus this is a someone else project, it becomes really obvious.

It does. I would say in the last 15 years that this is a someone else project has become less reliable than it was in the previous 25 years it's yeah the hit rate has gotten lower but you know that's true of everyone that you're right you're right but a lot of the negative press that has followed him through this horizon saga is the same negative press he got during dances with wolves it's the same negative press he got

during water world it's the same negative press he got during the postman it's not the same negative press he got during open range we'll talk about that that was the one time when he kind of like eluded some of the like oh kevin's gate kevin's at it again but um i i found this like a lot of fun to go back and look at this yeah he does have obviously somewhere between five and ten movies that are will probably live forever in the american movie canon and he's got another five to ten movies that are really fascinating some of which i'd never seen before and then he's got another five to ten movies that are really fascinating, some of which I'd never seen before. And then he's got another twenty movies that just like

really don't work. And... Are amazing. But this is the other thing is that because of his early success in the late 80s and 90s in like a particular type

of studio movie where Hollywood was just like, we got it. He has been allowed to try so many things that almost no one else gets to try. And you're kind of like, wow, I can't believe this one made it over the line. And I can't believe this one made it over the line. Well, I think it's because he keeps trying to like break the paradigm of his persona. Like we always talk about with movie stars.

He is very, very conscious of his persona, trying to shape it, trying to correct your vision of his persona. Yeah, that's the thing. Because I think for most guys like him, like think of Burt Reynolds. Like Burt Reynolds is in many ways similar to Kevin Costner. They're both kind of like very sly and charming. They're both athletes. They both have like the ability to communicate a lot into the camera without talking. But Burt Reynolds like pretty much stayed in the Burt Reynolds register from like 1974 through like 1987 in movies.

Yeah. Costner is like, I'm not doing that. I'm not doing Crash Davis for 25 years. I'm going to do Crash Davis twice, maybe three times. Yeah. And then never go back to it, even though it's one of the greatest movie characters of all time, which is a fascinating choice. You could argue,

I kind of hate it when people repeat themselves, but you could argue that a big mistake of his career is not going back to that well. Well, the issue is that he won't do Crash Davis again, but he will do his version of Henry Fonda like 45 times. And he finds lanes that, whether it's either like, you know,

the single man in the West, you know, like trying to stand up for American values or a defender of the quote unquote American idea in any other time period. But, and he's like, no, no, no, no. That's who I am. And that's what I'm gonna do and everyone else is like no we kind of want you to be like a washed up uh semi-drunk like charming

asshole right right right sexy jock yeah who's kind of problematic but also super fun right you know why everybody likes him and who is problematic but then learns not to be right you know and and we we go through the journey with you and you soften and we get our all-American guy in a different way. But he, I mean, and he really is. I sent you this, like, truly, truly priceless, I wish we could have been alive or, like, you know, mature in 1989 Vanity Fair profile of Kevin Costner by Jesse Kornbluth, who also, I mean, both people are firing on all cylinders because Jesse Kornbluth is like, I got to tell you, Field of Dreams, DOA, but Tony Scott's Revenge. And it's, I mean, and he like, he goes for it.

I can't recall in my many years of reading movie star profiles, a call that wrong from a profile writer. I almost respect it. I'm like, at least you picked your spot. Why did his editor let that through though? And it's really wrong?

When you're writing a profile, especially in Vanity Fair, why are you like, this is the one that stinks and this is the one that works? You never, writers never do that. It's a very odd moment.

Well, I mean, if you go back and read the Tina Brown Vanity Fair from the 80s, they were taking a lot of swings generally. Okay, okay. It's real like,

I'm a podcaster energy from Jesse Korn but it is you're right it's very funny but in that profile and then he's on one and yeah and he i mean he hasn't even done us dances with wolves and he's just like i am jimmy stewart i am henry fonda like i am paul newman i am all of these people. And I'm carrying on like the great Capra-esque American film tradition. And he's very insistent on that. But the interesting thing is Jesse Kornbluth in that profile is wrong. And Kevin Costner is right when he says, I think Field of Dreams could be, and it's a wonderful life for this generation.

He's totally right. And he was right. Yeah. Which is like Kevin Costner has manifested all of this power and has had this incredible longevity because he has this weird self-belief in his ideas and he will not move off of them. And you can see them reflected even now in this very complicated dispute between Paramount and Taylor Sheridan and Costner over Yellowstone, where Kevin Costner keeps holding the line on whatever he thinks the truth is of this story and talking about it in these vague but certain terms

about how he's like, the thing that matters to me the most is the script. And everything you read about him is like, the script, the script, the script. I know when the script is good, you don't. And so it leads to all of these great movies and all of these really bad movies because of this certitude

that he goes into every project with. He's a really great subject for this show. And we really haven't talked about him very much over the years because he hasn't made a lot of movies that have resonated because basically he started doing Yellowstone when we started doing the pod. So born in 1955 in Linwood, California, his dad was an electrical engineer and then eventually became like an executive in the electrical business. It seemed like he started out as kind of like a middle class or lower middle class kid. And then

as he got older, like his dad started having more and more success. He moved around a lot as a kid. He's talked a lot about being somebody who didn't have a lot of confidence as a kid, even though he was a handsome jock from California who looked like Kevin Costner. A tale as old as time. Yeah. That's the real like Marilyn Monroe, you you know, was told she was ugly. It is true. If you see, because they sometimes in movies will use younger, like, high school photos of him, you know, like, everyone's cribbing the Field of Dreams opening. I get it, you know, you got to try. It works. If it works, it works.

And he does take a little while to come into. To blossom. Yeah, his full jockness you know so i i understand but also he is kevin costner he says he did not really take on acting as a potential vocation until his senior year of college and then shortly thereafter he was on a flight and on the flight he encountered richard burton the great english actor i'm fascinated by kevin costner being a fan of richard burton's but he approached richard Burton at this, in this airport and asked him, should I pursue acting?

And Richard Burton was like, you have to do it. Pursue acting. Right. Which who knows if that actually happened. Did anyone ever fact check this with Richard Burton? I don't believe so. Yeah.

Richard Burton, not historically sober in this era. So I'm not totally sure how to verify this. Costner likes a big tail, you know, and, and he fashions them. So who will ever know?

We mentioned the two kinds of archetypes that he plays and the various actors that he compares himself to versus how we see him. And that like, I always think of like Burt Lancaster, Burt Reynolds, Gary Cooper as like a pretty good stand-in for the kind of actor that he is. Yeah. He always wants to say, I'm Jimmy Stewart,

I'm Spencer Tracy, I'm Henry Fondaa i don't really think that's right i think he's probably somewhere in the middle yeah you know i think basically it's like splitting the difference between i guess like spencer tracy and mcqueen you know where it's like he's in every guy who's so beautiful and shouldn't talk that much. Yes. Yeah. I think that's being generous to him. As a performer. Yeah. Okay.

Respectfully. Like sometimes he locks in on a vibe and it's transcendent. And sometimes he doesn't lock in on the vibe. And I would not say he's bringing like theater level capital A acting to the screen. I think I found the skeleton key for what he wants to be in movies, which did not appear in a movie. And I'll tell you about it. I don't, I doubt you got a chance to watch this,

but this was my real spelunking into the cultural archives with this take. It happens actually in that critical year of 1985 that you were suggesting starts his golden period. Really more. These are the things I wrote down just thinking about him off the top of my head. More presence than power. Yeah. Easygoing California charm. Lets his face do the work.

You know, knows how to hold the camera. He's talked about this a lot. I actually just mentioned this to Bill on a Rewatchables pod where Chris Pine had talked about his experience working with him on Jack Ryan's Shadow Recruit, which is definitely an auto green in the Hall of Fame later today. You know what? It's okay. It's fine. We're going to get there. And just how Chris Pine, whose father is an actor who's living in Hollywood his whole life, but how much he learned just hanging out with Costner for a few days and watching how he controls the camera almost never yells almost never raises his

voice in movies which i find so fast even because even though he plays a jock a lot of the time he's never a yeller he's always this kind of like controlled presence and he doesn't really have like you know we've been doing this show on youtube recently and like i'll click on a link and i'll start watching it and i'll start looking because i hate myself don't do that i mean i just don't i'm doing it right now as I speak to you. I can't not be like, whoa, hey,

we're on the roller coaster of takes. And he's, he'll, he sits there like this in every seat. And he's like, what do you mean? I'm the guy from draft day. I'm selecting this player in the draft.

I really, really can't wait to talk about draft day. I just, I have, I have so many, I have a month's worth just of of takes and observations i didn't watch a lot of like those kinds of movies actually so you'll have to remind me about some notes like i know my role and i'm ready okay um but anything else i haven't like i missed about how he works as an actor i don't want to step too much on a

perfect world which is the movie that he does with Clint Eastwood, but there is, I think, a major Eastwood influence as well. The stillness, the not raising the voice, like, the types of roles. You think that's a turning point for him? Well, I mean,

I think he's really good in that, and I think that that is a movie that works, and I think the problem is that he, if he followed Eastwood's path, like more, more closely instead of still trying to like save America in every single movie. I mean, he's not good with, I would say, nuance in his characters. He wants them to just be like the straight on hero. You know what's funny about that? I agree that you're right. Yeah.

But I think his vision of what is great about America is actually like a kind of smudged Vaseline lens idea where he never comes out and says, and this is reflected,

I'm fascinated by his personal politics. I mean, his personal politics are reflected here where in movies like Waterworld and The Postman and Dances with Wolves to some extent, he's never like, these are the bad guys and these are the good guys.

He does show you good guys and bad guys in the movies, but what they represent idealistically is like, sure, fascism is bad. But when you get into the nitty gritty, this is a guy who in the 90s supported both Bill Clinton and Phil Graham. It's a guy who in the 2000s campaigned for Barack Obama and Liz Cheney. Right. And made Swing Vote. He made swing vote.

You should be sent to the Hague for, but anyway. He invested in an oil separation company and then negotiated with BP to separate the water from the oil when that spill happened. He's an odd guy. And he's a guy who sees himself in that mold of like, I'm an independent thinker and I can't be swayed by this side or that side. Normally, we wouldn't get into that sort of thing with a famous person, but I do think it's really relevant here because he keeps plugging it into his movies.

And like Dances with Wolves, on the one hand, has historically been identified as like a white savior movie. It is not a white savior movie. It's like a, it's like a, I don't know what the right word would be. Like it's the lone white man who attempts to integrate

with the native people in that story. And you can certainly say the movie is told from the perspective of a white person. But who does, who do they, they save him. He doesn't save them. Right, yeah. So it's really interesting. It's not quite as, like, cut and dried.

Like, this guy's an artifact of, like, the Reagan 80s. Or he's also not, like, the Robert Redford, like, you know, conservationist, like do-gooder progressive. He's somewhere in this fuzzy middle. He's, I mean, he's rich libertarian. It's a little, it's dangerous. And he's, I mean,

he is a man who spent $38 million of his own money on Horizon 1 and 2. He did. And also like has a house in Aspen, has a house in Santa Barbara. Does he? They're all like- Based on your husband's reporting, he still does.

Based on Zach's report, he does. But I believe that they are on the line. Okay, well... You know? Some of the real estate is on the line at this point. And also, during the course of Zach's reporting, he did go through what I understand to be an expensive divorce. So...

He did. You know, he has anteed up for this. And on the one hand, I respect it. And on the other hand, I'm like, I'm you know, is this the right choice? Is it going to pay off? We will get into that on Friday. Chris Ryan will join us. We'll talk a lot about Horizon Chapter one.

Should we start the Hall of Fame? Is there any any other reflections on him as a person that you've learned that you want to share? We have a lot of movies to go through. No, let's save it for the movies. Okay. So Kevin Costner effectively begins his movie career in 1981. Right. And he has a four-year period where he is effectively like stopping and starting.

He does get a couple of lead parts in smaller independent movies and exploitation movies. It was interesting to learn that he'd even made a movie with Troma Studios, one of the kind of peak exploitation studios of the 80s and 90s. I've seen a few of these movies. Many of these parts are either very small or have been cut out of the movie or even uncredited. There's one very notable one that we'll get into. I think we can talk through the first few years pretty quickly.

Yeah, I don't think anything from 81 to Testament in 1983 is going in. None of these movies are going to go in. Yeah. Sizzle Beach, USA. He played John Logan.

Didn't get a chance to see this. There's a few movies on this list that I've still never seen. 1982's Chasing Dreams also did not get a chance to see this. 1982 Night Shift.

Ron Howard comedy starring Michael Keaton. I have seen this movie. Kevin Costner memorably shows up. who's chasing dreams also did not get a chance to see this 1982 night shift ron howard comedy starring michael keaton i have seen this movie kevin costner memorably shows up i think he has zero lines in the movie yeah and he's just a frat boy partying at the morgue that has been turned into like a brothel sorry i just remembered one incredible part of the jesse cornwood's vanity fair profile which is when he's talking about he's playing an extra and they like go out of their way to give him a line. This is in the next movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, sorry.

In Francis. Yes. And he, so that he can get his SAG card, so that he can get insurance. Because when you have a line in a movie, that's when you get your SAG card. And they do like 14 takes and he's just like the line didn't feel truthful like I you know Paul Newman wouldn't have said anything and so they have to do it forever so Kevin Costner can get his damn sad card and then he like proudly tells that story to Vanity Fair and I think that that's a I think it's the lead of the piece I think it's a great originating idea

of what he thinks he is as an actor, which is like, this is his big break. And he's like, this isn't right for the character. It's like, dog, your career is on the line. He's opposite Jessica Lange and is just like, no, but I couldn't say goodbye to Jessica Lange. The character would not have said goodbye. It made me wonder if this guy who is so obviously born to be in the movies,

why it took him four or five years to really get going because he brought that attitude straight away. You know, like, I wonder if he was just so difficult and he didn't need to be. And he's talked about the people he's competing with, like Timothy Hutton and Sean Penn and all these guys. And they all got their start in 1980, 1981. Why did they all get their big start before me?

And then you hear that Francis story. It's like, why are you being a dick on the set of Francis? They're giving you a line. Say goodnight to Jessica Lange, one of the biggest young stars in the world. Confidence and self-belief is both powerful and quite dangerous. I think about this all the time. So Sizzle Beach, USA, Chasing Dreams, Night Shift, and Francis are obviously not going. These are all very small parts. I did watch Stacey's Nights, aka The Touch. I did not. Tell me about it. This is a movie where Kevin Costner plays a learned gambler who wears a Humphrey Bogart

hat in contemporary 1980s Nevada, who stumbles upon a woman who is identified as a quote unquote mouse. So she's a woman that casinos would never identify as being like a card shark. And so he trains her and teaches her and they partner up to gamble. Very, very low budget movie. It's a significant movie for a couple of reasons. And I wouldn't have watched it if this was not the case. But the movie was directed by Jim Wilson and written by Michael Blake. Jim Wilson goes on to be his producing partner on many movies. And Michael Blake is the author of the novel that Dances with Wolves was based on and has gone on to basically either write or secretly ghost write many of Kevin Costner's movies.

He's the guy he calls when he's like, I don't like what this character is doing and pulls a Francis. Okay. Yeah, that's. And a lot of movie stars. This is important. A lot of movie stars, especially of a lot of movie stars especially of this era and this is still true but it was more true then

have like their team have their guy and their guys are like who quote unquote fixes the script exactly so Stacey's Nights was not very good

okay but it is important in terms of him discovering who he can become as a movie star the character he plays in that movie

is way different than the normal character 1983 Table for Five he's got a very small role as a newlywed husband. No lines. 1983, Testament. I did watch this. Did you watch this? No, I didn't. Okay. Interesting movie. He's got a pretty small part. He plays the father of a young child and he's married to Rebecca Desmornay. He's not the star of the movie. Jane Alexander is the star of the movie. This is maybe the saddest movie ever made. Great. Maybe that's why i didn't watch it because i read the um the plot description and i was like

no i i can't it is very briefly uh portrays one small suburban town near san francisco that is slowly coming apart after a nuclear war destroys civilization, but not in the city. Like there's no nuclear annihilation in this town, but in Los Angeles there is. Okay. And in Oregon there is. And in Ohio there is. So like a lot of,

so this is sort of like the long-term radiation effects and the dissolution of society seen through the lens of one town. Honestly, devastating. Like genuinely hard to watch incredible performances in this movie um it was directed by lynn litman who like i don't think she went on to direct another film he has this part as this father whose young baby is experiencing the after effects of radiation it's fucking insane absolutely not um and he talks about this movie in that profile because he's like i could have had a part in this bigger movie but i really liked the script for testament and i wanted to be a part of it it's interesting that movie this

movie has not really like persisted in the culture it's important because it does lead to what could and maybe should have been his big break right well i i mean in some ways you could argue that the big chill should go in his hall of fame even though he is not in it i was gonna suggest this i know i it's it's nice when we're just like doing our cute editor stuff you know magazines they still matter to us um it can't actually go in but like it should because so famously kevin costner um was cast and filmed scenes for the big chill he is the friend um the college friend who kills himself who then then the friends all gather for the funeral wake remembrance. And so they had some flashbacks with him.

And then the movie didn't work with him in it. There's an incredible aside in the Vanity Fair profile about an anonymous quote of being like, the Costner character was so unlikable, people wouldn't care about the movie. So because he's cut from The Big Chill, Kazdan, Lawrence Kazdan, the director, gives him a role in Silverado and kind of makes good and gives him his big break. But being cut from The Big Chill instantly becomes part of the Costner myth. And it's something like he still

talks about yes it is the it is it's probably the animating force of his career and you know famously his wrist does appear in the film while the casket is being carried so you see him very very very briefly um it's interesting because that's a movie and we talked about this when we did the rewatchables where generationally he felt a little bit young compared to the other characters to me at that time. He hadn't really broken through. And you're looking at all of these actors that you've seen before. You've seen William Hurt before. You've seen Kevin Kline before.

You've seen Glenn Close before. You've seen a bunch. And those characters have families and are in their 30s. And we haven't even seen Kevin Costner do anything. Right. And he's about to play a hot shot in a bunch of movies. Yeah, but it is also, it's supposed to be the flashback

when they're in college, right? That's true. That's a good point. We don't see him as slightly more. I'm gonna be honest, in a couple of years, he plays a college student and we're testing the limits

of believable college student at that point. That's a good point. 1984 is his last relatively anonymous movie. It's Shadows Run Black. It's that trauma movie that I was talking about. Could not track this one down. So I didn't get a chance to see this, but that's also red. Okay.

We're officially redding the Big Chill, right? You want to just yellow it for jokes? Yeah, let's yellow it for flair. Okay. 1985, Fandango. Did you watch this? I did. I mean, this is the one where they's, so they're graduating from college.

Yes. So they're supposed to be 22, 23. Respectfully, Kevin Costner is approaching 30. I don't, the movie could have- He's about 29, I think, when they made the film. Yeah. And has grown into himself. Looks amazing, but does not look like a clueless 22-year-old.

And Kevin Costner also has to perform a dance in fact a climactic fandango which is a style of dance so that is memorable um i i he isn't he is an athlete he moves with grace in many ways on the screen i don't know whether ballroom dancing was his particular calling, but otherwise it's, it's very charming. And this is like, he's playing the rogue, like the, the,

the charming rogue who you're rooting for, even though he's not totally at the center of, I mean, he is at the center of the story, but, um, he's not the straight man. He reminds me a little bit of a young McConaughey in this movie.

Uh, this is a, this is also an important movie because this is the movie where he teams up for the first time with Kevin Reynolds who wrote and directed the movie.

This movie, I think, is based on his short film that I believe Steven Spielberg saw and he liked it and produced this movie. Amblin produced this movie and it's pretty critical.

It actually is very similar to another Rewatchables movie we talked about recently, Breaking Away, about a young group of guys. They're right out of college. Or in that movie, they're not going to college. They're like 19.

But Quartets, we talked about in that episode. This movie is a Quartets movie. Costner, along with Judd Nelson, Sam Robards, and Chuck Bush. It's pretty good. It's like, it's fun. It's pleasant, yeah. Yeah, it's a little Linklater-y. Yeah.

Like a bit of a Hangout movie, episodic, about these four guys and what's going to happen to them. He's the best thing in it. Yeah. And I would say just for sort of like dramatic purposes, it should be yellow. Sure. I think it'll be very unlikely that it gets in. I would agree. But just to keep the conversation rolling.

You mentioned Silverado. Yes. Which is the movie that Kasdan makes after The Big Chill, which is his ode to the classic westerns of John Ford and Anthony Mann

and, you know, these John Sturgis. This movie has a very big reputation among movie fans, especially movie fans who came of age in the 1980s. Never a big movie

for me personally. It always felt like a photocopy of a movie um in a way that like uh um what is kasdan's movie but body heat doesn't even though body heat is this big homage right to like the steamy noir barbara stanwyck movie and has a lot in common with a lot of those movies but feel but always felt to me singular and on its own. Whereas Silverado felt to me like too indebted to those previous movies. Had you seen this before?

I hadn't. Okay. I went back. And so, you know, and that's another thing where you go back and you just, you end up watching a lot of Kevin Costner Westerns. And they all do feel either in conversation or trying to recreate what came before in the 50s and 60s

or what came before 5, 10, 15 years ago in Costner's own career. So this was kind of refreshing to me just because he is not the lead. I was happy to see Scott Glenn. You know? He's great. Love Scott Glenn. And I just, I think he deserves more. But Costner is the hot, charismatic, slightly dumb one,

who basically steals the movie. He does. That's great. Yeah. This movie has a great cast, has a great energy, has a great score. It just, story-wise, just feels very, very shaggy to me. It's very important for him, though though because he walks away with the movie and then this is what leads to him being cast in some big ass movies.

Exactly. So I think it's a minimum yellow. Let's yellow it for now, but I think it could be. I think it might be in. Yes. I think we're gonna have a few of those where we're like, I'm not sure.

So I just wrote down in 1985, Amazing Stories. It's an episode of a TV show. Are you familiar with this show at all? No. So it was actually revived like four years ago by Apple, but it was a show that was created by Steven Spielberg. It was an anthology show and it ran for two seasons, had like maybe 50 episodes total.

Every week, it'd be a new 25-minute episode, like a 30-minute show, standalone stories, not quite the Twilight Zone, like a different kind of energy, like a little bit more hopeful Spielbergian, but, you know, individual stories. And it's very similar to like Murder, She Wrote or The Twilight Zone

where like many of the people in the cast are like, oh, that person went on to be that. And a lot of big stars were born out of this space. So this episode that Costner appears in, which is the fifth episode of the first season of this show, is written by Menno Mejas, who is a longtime Spielberg writer, co-writer,

directed by Spielberg. It's Kevin Costner as a World War II pilot and Kiefer Sutherland and Casey Zamesko and a number of other like very notable 80s actors. And it's an extended episode. So it's twice as long as a normal episode

because Spielberg directed it. And also because Kevin Costner said it. That's a good point. Sure. Signals the future. We're starting now. And I'm sharing all of this

and I watched this because I had a feeling this was going to be the case because Costner plays the lantern-jawed hero strong silent pilot who successfully lands you know like an embattled World War II fight plane okay and you can see that when he does this and this is the last time he ever worked at Spielberg I believe right which is notable notable with their shared goals and time periods.

Agreed. But I think that this is the source text, like the source code for who he thinks he is. He thinks he's like a Spielberg hero. Yeah.

He thinks he's like... Like a Band of Brothers Spielberg hero, not Indiana Jones. Exactly. But he should be Indiana Jones. No, that's the perfect

delineation. You nailed it. He thinks it's more like a band of brothers energy and it's a really cool episode of TV the fact that this

just like aired on ABC at 8pm is super cool this show is fascinating like if you go down the list like Scorsese directed an episode

Joe Dante directed an episode maybe Coppola directed an episode it's really crazy like if something like this happened now it would be a massive

event like on this show where we were just like, yeah, Jordan Peele directed an episode and Greta Gerwig directed an episode. It was that kind of a thing. That could still happen, you know? Maybe we should create it. Maybe we should create this.

Well, you hate anthologies. How are you going to do that? Anyway, I thought it was really fascinating. It's, of course, not going in because it's a TV show. Right. But it's an important piece of text. And if people want to check it out,

it's worth seeing. Okay. So, one more thing in 1985. This is the fourth thing he's a TV show. Right. But it's an important piece of text. And if people want to check it out, it's worth seeing. Okay. So, one more thing in 1985. This is the fourth thing he's done in 1985. Right. American Flyers.

Very strange film. Incredibly strange, but the first sports film. That's right. So, you know. He plays Marcus Summers, who's a doctor and an avid competitive cyclist

who has a complicated relationship with his brother. They're sort of estranged and they come back together to race together. His characters don't often get along with other dudes. Yeah,

everything's going on there. Yeah, who knows? Yeah, and so. But he's never in a pack. You know, that's why he was not

in the dudes rock cannon because it was just a singular dude rockin'. Fandango and Silverado is basically the last time. Those are the last times he kind of moves away from being in those crews.

And even in Fandango, respectfully, like he does not respect the bro code. You're absolutely right. He does not. This movie is quite interesting, directed by John Badham who made Saturday Night Fever.

Both of the brothers fear that they will be struck with aneurysms the same way that their father has. They have like a medical condition and yet they love competitive cycling, which I would imagine would exacerbate such a condition. Lo and behold, it does actually eventually affect him.

The real star of the movie is David Marshall Grant, who plays his brother. I thought this movie was solid. Yeah, it's... Kind of of its era. Of an era, yeah um it really failed do you think you'll do 80s sports movies on the rewatchables at any point i sure hope so a lot of them have been done already i guess that's true you know they're like there are a couple on this there's at least one on this list that has not been done is it field of dreams no it's

bull durham has that never been done no wow i don't Dreams? No, it's Bull Durham. Has that never been done? No. Wow. I don't think I'll be invited on that episode. Right. Well, also, I read actually a lot of Bill Collins for this, which was also really fun. Yeah, Bill,

when his fingers worked. I mean, I also love the rewatchables. Did he write on American Flyers? I know he likes it. Well, he wrote a lot about sports movies. I mean, obviously.

But whether Bull Durham counts as a sports movie is sort of an enduring fascination of his movies. I mean, obviously. But whether Bulldorm counts as a sports movie is sort of an enduring fascination of his. And I think... Right, right. And so American Flyers came up as like a...

It might actually be slightly more of a sports movie. But it really... He points out that Costner is just kind of always on the edge of sports movie and soap opera. Romance, yeah.

Yeah. I think this is definitively a sports movie. I also have less, like... I don't see a difference. is definitive of the sports movie I also have less like I don't I don't see a difference okay ultimately between sports movie

and romance that's beautiful am I crazy though okay look at you you're bigger than 10 men progressive American Flyers I think is red

okay like it's an interesting movie but we're about to enter a very intense time yeah we can't it can't be what's in this McDonald's bag?

The McValue Meal. For $5.79 plus tax, you can get your choice of Junior Chicken, McDouble, or Chicken Snack Wrap, plus small fries and a small fountain drink. So pick up a McValue Meal today at participating McDonald's restaurants in Canada. Prices exclude delivery. So 1987, The Untouchables. Yeah. So Brian De Palma sees Silverado.

Mm-hmm. And he's like, that's Elliot Ness. Which is, I mean, interesting. Yeah. But then you wonder whether De Palma's idea of Elliot Ness and Costner's idea of Elliot Ness agreed. And whether we're getting a little bit more of what Costner wanted to do. This is the guy from that episode of Amazing Stories. Yeah, exactly.

Which is not a bad thing. And in fact, at this point in his career, it's the first time he's ever done this, which is the strong silent type. Really more like Gregory Peck. Right. Than certainly like fast talking guy from Silverado. Obviously, The Untouchables is an all-time classic. Yeah, you think he and De Palma got along?

I do not. They did not reunite. And those are two famously very strong-headed men. But like, he's not yet Kevin Costner at this point. He's a guy who knows he's got the stuff, but he hasn't really done anything. I mean, he... It's true. It's before he hasn't really done anything. I mean, he... It's true.

It's before everything that's about to happen. I mean, he's basically the lead of Fandango, but it's an ensemble. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, Silverado's

an ensemble. American Flyers is an ensemble. Like, he's never really done this before. He's had to carry a movie on his shoulders that has a $15 million

budget that a lot... Opposite Sean Connery. Right, I was going to say, but also De Niro and Sean Connery are in this movie. So he's carrying a lot of the weight, but De Niro and

Sean Connery are also bringing their own. And Andy Garcia. Yeah, of course. They've surrounded him. And also the baby carriage. And the film made Yeah, of course. Yeah, they've surrounded him. And also, you know, the baby carriage. And the film made to Palma. They've like surrounded his almost like negative charisma. Yeah.

His like anti-charisma with guys really overplaying. Which is fine. It makes it fun for the movie because it's like an old time gangster movie. I think it's an automatic green because it's such an important movie

in his career. And it does set an archetype. Okay. You don't think so? I mean, it's a big hit it's and it was like he's on the post right and so and this becomes like are we doing career versus performance versus mythology like all of those sorts of and i'm i'm i'm we're discovering that in real time okay so i'm open to it being green i wasn't sure i. I mean, it's a great movie. It's a $100 million movie that was nominated for four Oscars. And he's good in it. But he's not what you walk away from being like, oh, that guy.

It's a great poster. It is. I mean, it's a really good poster. People got to stop emailing me posters, though. What do you mean? You know, like, we're so proud to release the poster for this movie. Oh, you're out on that? Yeah, I am.

I'm not out on that. You might be surprised to learn that I do want to see more movie posters. I just, I don't need them emailed to me. I think green, maybe I'll live to regret that. It's tough because there's... We're allowed to un-green things. There's some movies here that I don't like that failed that kind of have to go in. Okay.

Which is an interesting test. Yeah. I like The Untouchables. It's not one of my all-time favorites, especially with De Palma. Like, I'm kind of a snob about it because it's not as perverse as most of my favorite De Palma movies are. Which, like, and I still wonder, like, how much the Costner resisting the perverseness of it, you know? Oh, you think it could have been more perverse. I'm just wondering.

Interesting. Well, if you want to make this green, I'd like to talk about the next movie in 1987, which is No Way Out. Important movie. Which, for me personally, has to be green. Okay. Because I love it.

Is this because this is the hottest he's ever been in a movie? No, it's not. Because it's not the hottest he's ever been in a movie. I mean, that's coming soon. We are in a focused era of jeans being cut for men in a certain way and hair being grown in a certain way that really all comes together.

Okay. But this, you know, he has the crew cut throughout this. But he's the man in uniform. And he does look good in the uniform. So he plays Lieutenant Commander Tom Farrell. This is a remake of the 40s movie, The Big Clock.

And very renowned for the electrifying chemistry between Costner and his co-star Sean Young. Yes. And also Gene Hackman and Will Patton giving one of the craziest performances in movie history. This is a really, really, really good 80s thriller.

It's so good. And I almost don't want to say anything else about it because Yeah, you don't want to spoil it. Yeah, if you haven't seen it, like please tonight

stop watching that Dragon show and just watch No Way Out. Like please, like spend your time better, value yourself and watch this instead. This is only like

Just trust me. It's only like a... Just trust me. It's only like a mid-tier hit. Don't read anything else. Okay. And again, I'm talking to the people, not to you. You know what I mean. Yes, I do know what happens in the movie. Just watch it.

This versus Untouchables is an interesting conversation. I think Untouchables is a more remembered movie, and it was a bigger hit at the time. Yeah. But for Costner fetishists, it's a very important movie. I mean, you don't have to make it sound so gross. It's just...

It's not just like men and women who just dig Costner. Yeah. It's just a cool Kevin Costner movie. It's really cool. Yeah, he's very, very good.

And I candidly wish he made more like naughty thrillers. You know, I think he's very good in a naughty thriller. The way I'll put it, so in doing all this

because it's so many movies, I would watch a lot kind of when I had an hour or two during the day, you know, fit them in where I could. And then I saved special ones for like prime time, kids asleep, had dinner. Now I like just get to watch a movie. Yeah, Amanda time. Yeah. And No Way Out was like the very first, like, here we go.

Now I'm just, I'm settling in. It's 7.30. I can stay awake for all of No Way Out was like the very first. Like, here we go. Now I'm just, I'm settling in. It's 7.30. I can stay awake for all of No Way Out. Where do you stand on Sean Young in the light of day? So, this is, what's interesting is that

their chemistry is so undeniable that it papers over the fact that I, like, can't stand her. I straight up cannot. But is that because of everything you know about what she's done since? No, no no it is it is the energy that she is bringing in that movie which is useful to the film she's she's really good at this but in

general i'm just it's like would not want to sit next to at a dinner you know agree there we go uh so you're saying you think this should be green i would like it to be green i and i understand i understand what's about to happen i think we're gonna have some we're gonna have some issues but let's just let's make it green for now okay we'll make and then we can go with it make it green number uh 1988 bull durham just absolutely the greenest of the green uh agreed i just oh my god this movie is so, despite some truly unnecessary uses of the word pussy and cock, like in like a high profile. Ron Sheldon, absolutely cooking. You know, but it's like we really we could have edited that out of one of the speech.

This is incredible. Yeah. And like the thing is, is the speech starts with that line and you're just like, oh no. And then Costner just drives it back on the road and you're like, yes, yes, yeah. It's incredible. This is still early enough in his career that you can tell he couldn't convince Shelton to like kill his darlings. This movie has a lot of darlings. It's very floridly written. Yes.

I mean, you know, whatever Susan Sarandon is doing, which is transcendent. She's so wonderful. But that's quite a character. They both have to work overtime to sell the jock poetry of the movie, which totally works. It works 100%. In the hands of another actor, it might not work as well. It's also really interesting that he goes along with it and does it. And the soulful, sexy jock poet myth is born here for him.

He really doesn't do it that much more. No. He plays athletes more. And in his later career, he sometimes kind of like grasps at it. But he kind of never did this again. Yeah. Even in Tin Cup, which is another Ron Sheldon movie, which we'll talk about shortly. But he does another thing in tin cup it's it's good it's more pulled back well he's older also

you know don johnson's got more like shit heel like you know speechifying stuff anyway we'll we'll get there shortly that's true it is it's very clear that kevin costner would prefer not to say words right exactly yeah and in this one he has like a full Sorkin speech. Totally, talking a lot. It's great. 1989, Field of Dreams. Just the absolute greenest of all greens. I hadn't seen this in a long time.

I watched it with my wife. Yeah. She was like, I love Field of Dreams. Let's watch that one. And I really enjoyed it. I have nothing negative to say about it, really. Other than, this is really one of the weirdest movies of all time that's become an American classic. It is so strange.

But, you know, when Costner is right, he's incredibly right. Like, it is sports. It's a wonderful life. It is, like, completely magical. But literally. Like, I think I've forgotten how magical realism this is. It is totally magical, but there is something also about his performance,

which again, doesn't have that many words, but he's like very lived in. I really like the Amy Madigan character. Yeah, she's great. And like enough, there is some of the Sarandon whimsy in it, but she's also pretty practical. And also you would like your partner to just be like, yeah, sure, but she's also pretty practical. And also, you would like your partner

to just be like, yeah, sure, build a field. No problem. She's extremely supportive. And also, you know, the movie, I posted a short review on Letterboxd about this movie, and someone in the comments posted something very insightful and correct, which is that her character especially, but the movie in general, is this really interesting call from baby boomers to try to get back to how they saw the world and what they believed in in the 1960s. Like that is ultimately what the movie is about. It's like we need to believe in a kind of utopian possibility

if we are good to each other and sincere and do things forthrightly. Right. Which like the building of the baseball field, the commitment to the concept, the like rejection of the Timothy Bustfield character, Amy Madigan's speech

at the PTA meeting is all, is in this weird stew of like, you know, like radical 60s politics plus loving America and baseball

and corn and also the Black Sox who were cheaters but needed redemption. It is. It's a funky movie. It is the last best argument the boomers have made for themselves. I won't argue.

Yeah. I also just. Not Joe Biden? I am just. I don't know how we're going to make it through this year. I think he's a member of the silent generation. Between. Yeah, because he's really, really, really old.

But not so silent. But he's. That's. You know. That's true. Speaking of corn. Talking about corn pop in the universe. Yeah, because he's really, really, really old. But not so silent. But he's, that's true. You know, speaking of corn, talking about corn pop all the time. I'd like to talk more about Field of Dreams, which is something that makes me feel good. Bobby, don't encourage them. Chris isn't here, but I feel him. Was corn pop the Timothy Busfield character? Is that who Biden's referring to?

I have literally no idea what you're talking about. I was like too busy being served 4,000 videos of Travis Kelsey dancing on stage in London. When Biden, this will be our only like digression. No, it won't. When Biden was campaigning in 2020, he was telling stories that he told before. I think about growing up in Delaware. Yeah. He was like, there was this mean bastard named Corn Pop.

And I needed to stand him down and be like, sir, this is not right. And sometimes you got to look evil in the face and say, not today, sir. Okay, that's funny. Was this or was this not part of him talking about when he was a lifeguard

and was Corn Pop one of the bullies It was, yes. It was the lifeguard story. Yeah, that was great stuff. That's great stuff. Is Corn Pop the last name of the guy who's playing Superman? It's Corn Sweat. Corn Sweat sweat we should keep this bit going okay all the way up until the release of superman but honestly i know

i saw a picture of him because they you know they have the set photos now and it's like i just thank you jim gone for your continuing updates but it's not corn sweat it's like corinne sweat is he british Are they letting a British person play Superman? No, he's from Philly, right? I thought we were talking about he's from Philly. Oh, is he? Yeah, he's an Eagles fan. You're right, Bobby.

Oh, wow. Well, that took on like a different dimension. You asked me the other day. We recently saw a film in which David Corn Sweat is one of the stars. Yeah. And you said, what's his name? Corn Sweeper? That was funny.

We'll keep that going. That was in response. Like, Sunday morning, you ever responded like 14 to my texts. And then like out of nowhere, Sunday morning, like 10, 30 a.m., you're just like, hey, did you know that guy plays Superman? And I was like, I can't. Isn't it so fun to text with me? I was living. I was at Dim Sum trying to restrain my child.

Oh, okay. Anyway, what was i saying about field of dreams okay i was saying that it's yeah it's like the last boomer the last great yeah and then i had something else and then we talked about corn pop for a while he this is also a very different character than what we think of as the costner archetype which is like he's a true believer he's a deeply sincere guy he really only he doesn't even really get exasperated that much even though he's got these wild ideas like he has a kind of sunny hopeful quality to him but he is haunted also you know like there are things yeah you know

as as a man with a dad as you remind me that all men are haunted by their dads yeah he's a man with a dad um so he's like working through it, which adds like just like a little and his regret as well. Adds a little bit of tension to the strong John character. The thing that the movie that I think has resonated with so many, especially men over the years and has made it such a kind of boomer cliche is the you know not just the hey dad want to have a catch sequence but the idea that men from that generation had such a hard time getting to know and understanding and building a relationship with their fathers in this movie in particular it's really interesting because his dad is much older than him and i had forgotten that big prologue where he does the narration i know know, but it's like arc of his family's life. It's so cliched, but it's so good.

It really works. It really works. It's a really, really good. I remember what I was going to say, which is just that in the, you know, the famous John Mulaney at the Oscars, but recapping Field of Dreams. And he's like, I thought that was a real book until well into my twenties. And I have to be honest, I learned it was not a real book when John Mulaney gave the speech at the Oscars. Right, the terrorist man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, oh, okay.

And that's part of it is like James Earl Jones is so good in the movie that you're like, that's definitely based on someone real. Yeah. Obviously, Feel the Dream is going right in.

1989, The Gunrunner, never seen it. Nor have I. I posted a stack on Instagram of all my Kevin Costner films and replied, where's The Gunrunner? I don't know.

I don't think it's available on Blu-ray. That's not going in. Revenge, 1990. Jesse Cornbluth's favorite movie. So I have a soft spot for this movie as a hardcore Tony Scott fan. Listen, it's not-

Did you rewatch it? Yeah, it's not bad. It's really, really nasty. It's like mean-spirited and violent in a way that movies are not anymore. I would just say that Kevin Costner's character does not treat that lady very well. You know, he's not very conscious.

Women in general are not treated well in this. You know, he's not very conscious. Women in general are not treated well in this film. Yeah, he is not, he's not an upstanding man thinking about the consequences. Does he look really great in the linen shirt, buttoned halfway, whatever it is, buttoned halfway down? He does. He looks wonderful. Looks beautiful in the movie. It's a classic Tony Scott, like changing stock, film stocks and flashing.

And you can see him like moving out of the Top Gun Days of Thunder phase and moving more into his like I what I really like is gnarly it's a fun watch well fun is like a you know if you're in the mood for some gross stuff yeah it's it's pretty gnarly um I don't think it's going in but I would recommend people watch it because it's probably the least known of the in my opinion the great Tony Scott movies agree and I don't know why it kind of fell out of favor

well it's sort of tough it's tough it is somewhat predictable yeah it's also like weird like Anthony Quinn playing a Mexican guy and stuff like that yeah and

also the premise it doesn't really make a ton of sense like a pilot who retires early yeah and then it's just like, his rich friend is just like, hey, come hang out.

And like, oh, oops, now you're working for the cartels. He talks about it in that Vanity Fair profile where he's like, the script is terrible, but the story is so good, which I thought was an interesting movie star bullshit note.

But also- He's like, we'll never have a better story than this. It's like a pilot wants to fuck Madeline Stowe. The one, yeah, the Madeline Stowe character development is that she wants to have a better story than this can i can i share the one yeah the madeline stowe character development is that she wants to have a child but her husband doesn't want to quote unquote spoil her body so he forbids her from having a child don't you hate when that happens when you just spoil your body well i guess i gotta fuck kevin costner instead which is like on a number

of you know the good for her i guess se, seizing, making the best of it. This comes up in another film. It does. That's really interesting. Okay. Maybe that's where he got the idea. Revenge, I'll say, is out. I agree.

But I have some fondness for it. Yeah. So in 1990, he passes on The Hunt for Red October. He's offered the movie. He's offered Jack Ryan. He's offered Jack Ryan. And he says, no, thank you. Because I have an idea for a movie.

It's called Lieutenant Dunbar. Yeah. I mean, listen, again, in this very fair profile, he's talking about it and he's already talking about it. He's like,

I just need to make it long, you know, and what's wrong with a long movie? I respect it. I mean, there is a lot wrong with a lot of these long movies. Yeah, we'll find out.

But in this case... He obviously would have nailed Jack Ryan. He would have been a very good Jack Ryan. It would have been interesting sliding doors-wise because Baldwin plays

Jack Ryan in Hunt for Red October. And then Harrison Ford picks up the mantle for two films. Right. And then we get Ben Affleck and we get Chris Pine. Really all my favorites after Baldwin. A lot of your guys, they love Jack. Once again, I'm excited to talk about Shadow Recruit. Do you not like Baldwin?

Baldwin in the 90s? I mean, I have a complicated relationship with Baldwin. What do you think of his wife, Hilaria? Yeah, and I'll obviously be DVRing every episode of their reality show. Do people still DVR? Yeah. I think if you have YouTube TV, that's what I have. We do as well, but I find it kind of stressful.

I always feel like I'm committing to having every single episode of Good Morning America recorded yeah I agree I like that well for years I did that with PTI and Jeopardy and I would DVR every episode yeah and I don't have time to do that anymore yeah so the thing about Baldwin is it's it's a little bit the Costner thing as well, where I come of age slightly after his prime. And also the movie of his prime that I'm most close, well, the two movies are Glenn Gary, Glenn Ross, which is like respect. But, you know, is he one of my guys in that? I don't know. And then in Working Girl. He's one of my guys.

He's the other guy. You know? Good point. So that's just kind of where I am. But like Harrison Ford, Ben Affleck, Chris Pine. Check, check, check. Yeah. I think you should dig into the mid 80s Baldwin stuff a little more.

Yeah. I think maybe like Miami Blues or like Married to the Mob. He's the husband of Married to the Mob, right? That sounds right. I think so. Okay. So Revenge is kind of, it's not a bomb,

but it basically fails. Right. And despite that, he's raised the money, effectively independently, to make Dances with Wolves. Right. He gets Orion

to distribute the movie, and Orion has helped him distribute a lot of these movies. I think they did Field of Dreams. I think they did a lot of these movies. But Dances with Wolves is this big panoramic story focused on this one man,

a soldier in the Civil War who nearly loses his leg and in a crazy act at the beginning of the film, effectively draws the attention away from the Confederate Army and the Union is able to win a effectively draws the attention away from the Confederate army.

And the Union is able to win a battle because of this strange act he pulls where he rides out on his horse and draws attention away. And because of this, he gets granted a post by what is clearly an insane general who shortly before he kills himself, sends him all the way out

into the Wild West, which is where Dunbar requests. And so this is all sort of like the preamble to this movie where a guy effectively alone goes to, I want to say Wyoming. It's not Wyoming though. I can't, it's Colorado. Fort Sedgwick.

Fort Sedgwick. And there, because no one else lives there but the Lakota tribe, finds himself increasingly entrenched in their world and starts to adapt to their lifestyle and understand the way that they live. And no one really knows that this man has been sent on this outpost because this general kills himself and because the man who helped him get out there is also killed by the Pawnee tribe. two plus hours of this movie this American epic which won Best Picture Best Director famously defeated Goodfellas is now I think

pretty understood as like an American classic of the new westerns like revived westerns in America after a 10 year fallow period

after Michael Cimino's Heaven's Gate two hours is just him talking to Graham Greene in the Lakota language and slowly falling in love

with Mary McDonnell. I don't really think this movie's very good. I really kind of don't get it. Yeah. It's, I didn't rewatch it because I

rewatched it on a plane several years ago in preparation for some other podcast that we were going to do. And because I also knew that despite everything that you just said, I mean, I guess it is beautiful to look at.

It's gorgeously shot. There's some sequences with the buffalo that are like amazing. And it's so essential in the Costner and Hollywood mythology at this point that it has to go in. I agree. Despite the fact that we both would have preferred Goodfellas to when and where Oscar

nerds and. And some of my like dinging it is related to Goodfellas, but some of it is just I sat down and I watched it yesterday. I sat in a room alone by myself for three hours. And there's things to admire. And his performance is good. But it's just kind of dull. It's fine. It's just kind of dull.

Yeah. It has a pretty rousing conclusion. And I think it ends on an interesting note. And it is a much more thoughtful portrayal of, you know, those tribes and Native Americans at that time than I think some would lead you to believe, even though it still is purely from a white man's perspective. Just the movie itself, I just don't think it's that great.

There's something about the movie, and certainly its reception are sort of self-congratulatory. Like, you know, Costner, it is huge, Costner self-mythologizing. And I guess mostly successfully. And then Hollywood also being like, well, I mean, can you believe this? Look at this, you know, actor, director, and look what we can reward and do. And so it has that real kind of old school Hollywood. It's war baby reds. Yeah, tinge to both of us.

I think that kind of dampens our enthusiasm for it i mean also it's just i agree with you you know i like westerns in general i'm like this is this is very beautiful and this is slightly more interesting it is a twist on it it is a twist but at some point it is just people wandering around outside you know and then they're like, oh, I ran into someone else outside. And now we now we got to have you love going outside. I do love going outside. I tend to like being by the ocean more, you know, so that's a problem. I feel like Colorado might be a good place for me to retire to. I think that's good.

But as you know, famously, the American West is not where I want to spend my free time. Where do you want to spend it in the tropics? You want to spend it in Italy? I want to spend my free time. Where do you want? You want to spend it in the tropics? No, you want to spend it in Italy? I want to spend it. I want to be by an ocean. Right. Not me. Or a sea.

Give me a lake. Yeah. I don't know what's at the bottom of that lake. A lake with an alpine forest. Zach also feels this way. And I am like really, really, really suspicious. I just don't know what's down there. You think because Jason Voorhees may kill you? No, I did more just like gross muck and all sorts of like. am like really really really suspicious i just don't know what's down there because uh jason

vorhees may kill you no i did more just like gross muck and all sorts of like you know bacteria and weird stuff i don't know i don't even want a drainage system let's not spoil our bodies of water jmo episode which i'm really excited about i think we have a really bright future that's a 3 000 part series about every body of water uh. But like, you know, I love the sand and the ocean and you won't go near it. You didn't come this weekend. I didn't come to the beach. You didn't come. I'm very sorry.

It was honestly. I'm going to the beach on Wednesdays. It was one of the most perfect beach days. Oh, it was very hot. And I got in the water. Okay. And then, and I jumped under the waves and Knox like panicked every time I went under one of the waves.

Oh no. It was very, yeah, he just didn't understand, you know? And so. I thought you were disappearing forever. Yeah. Like a mermaid. He just didn't understand why you would go under the crashing thing.

And then I would be like, I'm okay. And so all weekend, he's been like, mama's okay. Which is very cute, actually. Anyway, love the ocean. The American West, it's incredibly beautiful. I understand why they filmed everything there. It does kickstart a kind of revival, like Unforgiven comes a couple of years later.

Like there's a moment now where, you know, Tombstone comes after that, and then we'll get to Wyatt Earp, that comes after that. Like in the 90s, these movies started to take a new prominence. This movie made $425 million stances. That's a lot.

At that time, that was a lot. This was a sensation, and it was a bet-on-yourself moment. It was the biggest bet-on-yourself moment he had had had to that point and it is the reason why he's doing the things that he's doing right now with horizon because he was so affirmed in his belief in this movie and the story which he did with michael blake who i mentioned is the guy who now quote-unquote fixes all his movies yes Yes. 1991, Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves. I don't think this movie is good. I rewatched it and I couldn't make it through.

I was so bored. I was just skipping through. I think it's actually in though. Because it's such a big hit. It makes so much money. I know. And the tricky thing is he's miscast. His accent is bad. This starts a series of troubling hair choices

and maybe some of them are not choices i listen nature is real and but it's i don't know what to do with this period here that we're getting to which is a great period and all these movies are hits yeah and they're all to a certain kind of audience beloved. So you could just be like from 1985 to 1993, we're all green. No, well, we can't because let's, but Robin Hood, Prince of Deeds made a tremendous amount of money. It did.

It was a big, big hit. The Brian Adams song was freaking everywhere. I mean, also that the Brian Adams song is the song. There was a, he made another movie where Brian, I can't remember what it was that I rewatched that Brian Adams also did the theme of at the end that he was trying to recall. You guys don't know what the late 80s and early 90s were like.

You know, Bobby, you just don't know. This movie made, after $425 million for Dances with Wolves, $390 million for Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves. This is also directed by Kevin Reynolds, who was his director from Fandango and who he'll work with again very shortly. I think it's in because it was so big and so many people loved it.

Okay, let's put it in for now and then we can revisit. The next one is JFK. Like, what are we doing here? You know? What is who doing? What are you and I doing here?

What is Oliver Stone doing? What are you and I... Oliver Stone is cracking the case. What are you and I doing right now? Because if JFK is not in, then why are we... Okay, good. Not only is it in I think is one of his best performances it might even be his best non-Bull Durham performance

because it's so far from everything else he's ever done it's true he is he is loquacious he is obsessed paranoid deranged brilliant wrong like it is a fascinating movie star i'm throwing it all out there kind of move it's also i mean it's the thing about he's playing a louisiana da who's trying to try the united states government this is the most green i love this movie i love the rewatchables episode about this movie um you know we talked about donald sutherland and mr x just last week the thing is is like so much of what works for costner in this movie is is because of either the script or oliver stone's casting choice it's like things outside of his own decision making besides agreeing to do it, which is incredible. But the tension of Costner, and we know him as like, you know, the great American, quote unquote, in like full paranoia breakdown. But he's lending it, if not like a sense of earnestness, then a sense of we're not totally off the deep end.

And some of that is in the performance and some of that is just kind of in everything that you bring to the table when you're Kevin Costner in this moment in JFK. Yeah, I think Oliver Stone is doing what great filmmakers do with movie stars, which is he's utilizing his essential American-ness to make something outlandish seem more plausible. It feels safer, the crazy ideas that he has

coming out of the mouth of Kevin Costner. And to me, it works. When I was 15, I was like, well, this is clearly what happened. There's just no doubt about it. And obviously, this is not what happened. It's not. There's so many factual and conspiratorial ideas, mistakes and ideas in the movie. It's so good.

But it's so propulsive and compelling. And the movie's built around him. Yeah. So it's so propulsive and compelling and in the movies built around him yeah so uh it's definitely in so i mean the movie's built around him but they're also like to me two of the three most transcendent parts of it are just the opening which has nothing to do with him is martin sheen's narration and the editing and the script writing the storytelling which are incredible and then donald sutherland and then donald sutherland and like plus tommy lee jones kevin bacon like gary oldman like people who are going forward on the edges of the movie it's true but And then Donald Sutherland. And then Donald Sutherland. Plus Tommy Lee Jones, Kevin Bacon, Gary Oldman.

People who are going for it on the edges of the movie. It's true. But a lot of the Costner time is spent with Joe Pesci in a wig, just being like, what's going on? But in the third act, he gets the big speeches in the courtroom. I said the third big memorable moment is Costner. I just will say, if you're re-watching jfk specifically for costner and then you're like okay well i'm just gonna fast forward to mr x because like i can't not like his acting on the bench is is really special she's like yeah it's really it's what is he has like one line that's like i had no idea

kennedy was such a threat to the establishment. It's really such a while. He's been fucking investigating this story for years. It's fine. He didn't know Kennedy was such a threat to the establishment at that point. It's really bad writing. It's fine. And yet, maybe one of the greatest movie scenes of all time. It's fine.

Okay. So, just for the record. Yeah. No, I know. This is bad. We're going to listen. To me, it's good. Let's keep going crazy.

What I was going to say is Dance of the Wolves, 181 minutes. Yeah. Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves, 143 minutes. JFK, 188 minutes. Yeah, that's fine. That's not his fault. That's Oliver Stone. The next movie is 129 minutes.

And then the movie after that is 138 minutes. My guy likes a long film. Wait, is it Perfect World, 138? It is. Then Wyatt Earp is like five hours long. Wyatt Earp is, I i think three hours and 25 minutes so this is the run that he's on so jfk is in yeah 1992 the bodyguard i think has to be in i don't think it's a good movie at all it is insane i had not re-watched it in many years

are you kidding me that what is happening in this movie? It's bizarre. And he is not good at it. And yet, this movie is a smash hit, a smash ola. And he and Whitney Houston, did they fall in love? Like, what happened here? Like. Because his enduring affection and love for her. He spoke at her funeral. Well, she's Whitney Houston.

I know. They were good friends. He spoke at her funeral and then told the good friends he spoke at his funeral and then told the story for 20 years about how he like made some changes to the production of the funeral and made sure that cnn did the right thing or whatever which is just great stuff thanks kevin costner shit um this frank farmer a bodyguard right i had forgotten this might be a hall of fame oscars movie the the presentation of the oscars ceremony oh yeah and what happens at the oscars ceremony in this movie i had completely blocked it out that it was at the oscars and no this is bad shit it's crazy there

are like 18 attempts on this poor woman's life it's also a really weird choice to make a movie with mick jackson but i wonder if this is basically him in the era where he's like, I can control this production. Now, famously, this movie is written by Lawrence Kasdan, who is one of his close friends. And meant it for Diana Ross and Steve McQueen? Yes, exactly. Which would have been a very interesting movie. Right. And this is, in a way, like kind of their contemporary counterparts, you know, in Whitney and Kevin Costner. You know, I don't think it's very good. It's a sensation. It made $400 million and featured the,

it's the best-selling soundtrack of all time. It has that incredible, you know, Whitney cover of the Dolly Parton. Yeah, they don't even use like the best, whatever. It's an actively not good movie and they have no chemistry. But this is the challenge with this Hall of Fame. There's a bunch of movies I don't like that much that have to go in.

And then a bunch of stuff I do like that can't go in. So, like, we'll get there very shortly. Okay. So, Bodyguard's going in. That's fine. A Perfect World. This is in my, like, maybe in my top five, six, seven Clint Eastwood movies. It's so good.

And he's so good at it. Amazing movie. It's a movie about a a guy who's broken out of jail and is on the run and while he's trying to make his way across town his partner who's broken out with takes a kid hostage and he eventually kills his partner and then he and the kid are on this wild chase across i forget what state it is is it like kansas and they're in pursuit by clint eastwood who's playing a marshall and laura der. Is it like Kansas? And they're in pursuit by Clint Eastwood, who's playing a marshal,

and Laura Dern, who's a criminologist, and they're riding in a camper van together. But Clint Eastwood, the marshal, has a history with him and so believes in some innate possibility in him. And he also, so he is a criminal who has abducted a kid who you're also rooting for. And he brings the softness he

like connects with the child the child is a is jehovah's witness and so um has never experienced halloween so then he spends half the movie in like the casper the ghost costume that kevin costner i mean amazing stuff the ending is both like totally cliched and so affecting if he made a million movies like this, he would be our greatest actor. I got chills watching this movie again. It's so, so good. So to me, I'm like, okay, well, the body art has to go in,

but I really want this movie to go in because I think it's one of the best movies he's made. I want it to go in too. But then we're going to get to stuff and we're going to be like, ah, I don't know if this makes sense. It's fine. We can overgreen and then we can cut.

We're allowed. So I think the perfect world, if you haven't seen a perfect world, which did make $130 million when it came out, but is at the tail end of his prime prime, I would highly recommend you go seek it out because it's really, really brilliantly done. And Clint's like restraint really plays in its favor,

I think. Okay, 1994, wider. It does not work. There are things about it I think. Okay, 1994, Wider. It does not work. There are things about it I like. Listen, Lawrence Kasdan is incredibly talented and this one just, it wasn't there. It's also a panoramic Western that is a retelling of one of the most famous figures

of the American West. This movie... We're running out of time. Okay. We can't spend this much time on Wider, which is so boring. I'll just say one thing. Tombstone came out one year earlier and ate this movie's lunch. That's true. And Tombstone is a rollicking, fun movie that is cut really tight and is under two hours. And this movie's three and a half hours. Yeah. And audiences

rejected it. It doesn't quite work. It's red. 1994 is The War. I did not go and revisit this movie. I do remember it had a really good Elijah Wood performance. Costner plays, I think, a Vietnam vet who has PTSD. That sounds right. I didn't revisit it either because Wyatt Earp took all my 1994 time. Yeah. I mean, that was the issue with going back because a lot of movies are so long. I think The War is solid, but not going in. Okay. 1995, Waterworld. Well. Here's my take. This movie rocks. No, it does not. It does. Here's my take. If I were Kevin Costner, I would simply ask for a different costume. Like, he had enough input.

He had a lot to do. And I, at some point, I would take a look at the dailies and I would say, this is not working for me. Also, his hairline at this point is not compatible with constant wetness. Very bold choice to continue getting in the water by him in this movie because he's like, he's almost like, mat his hair down after he gets out of the water.

It's worn strangely. I think that this movie did not, was not done any favors by me re-watching it right after having re-watched all the Mad Max movies. And because this is like, it's stated in the development, is Mad Max, but with water, rip off. And this and The Postman together both seem like two movies the development is Mad Max, but with water ripoff. And this and the postman together,

both seem like two movies that are totally Mad Max build. And I think this one's more interesting because all of this stuff is done practically on water. I mean, that's true. I mean, the stunt work is so crazy good in this movie when it came out, obviously it's like,

it's the all time fiasco. It is the Kevin's gate. And it is almost like, do you put it in the if if we were doing just like the mythology of kevin costner we would have big chill and we would have water world and because this was also like this is when you and i signed up for our little entertainment weekly subscriptions and we knew all about this and water world has like become a shorthand for a just absolutely disastrous production movie that everyone knows. And in fact, it did a little better than everyone expected.

I think it actually made money. Yeah, which for many, many months in the trades did not seem possible. And he basically kicked the director off the movie and tried to take it over. I think his narcissism really comes to the fore in this. I don't think it's a particularly interesting character or performance from him, but the world building is the kind of stuff that I really like,

and it was overshadowed by all this stuff that we're talking about. I would just say let's yellow it, just because it's a fascinating experiment of his strength and power at that time. 1996 Tin Cup. I would just say let's yellow it. Okay. Just because it's a fascinating experiment of his strength and power at that time. Yeah. 1996 Tin Cup. This is another one that I saved for like a minute. It might be the most watchable movie on the list. Like to me, it's just a warm bath.

Like I really like it. It is definitely the last 90 minutes are just like turning on golf on a Sunday afternoon, as happens in my home on a regular basis. Can I tell you something exciting? That despite being surrounded by golfers in all walks of my life. I golfed on Friday. It was great. Yeah. And knowing about the no laying up guys as heroes, I didn't really understand what laying up was until I rewatched Tin Cup and I was like, oh, he's laying up! And I was very excited about that. So, shout out to all of them. He's also, he's playing... I hate to lay up. I mean...

I really love to go for it. I think I still, I understand what it is, which is, it's the safe shot, right? Yeah. Yeah, okay. And of course, Kevin Costner,

he knows the safe shot. And also, by the way, the end of the movie, that last scene is one of the great... I mean, it's incredible, exhilarating stuff. I like his character. He's another washed-up sports guy who runs a driving range literally in the middle of nowhere.

And we're supposed to believe that Rene Russo is a clinical psychologist who would be willing to go to whatever bum part of Texas. Supposed to believe? Wow. Diminishing your girl, Renee. No, I'm not. I'm just like, Renee Russo is not taking golf lessons from this loser in the middle of Texas.

Well, especially not when she's dating a golf pro. Right. A professional golfer. Right. This movie is also 134 minutes. It is, like I said. It only makes long movies. It's just, after a while,

they're just like at the US Open for a really long time. This is obviously a kind of bounce back from the Waterworld experience where he's returning to working with Ron Shelton after a few years away, playing a very familiar athletic figure. Very credible as a golfer.

Very credible. That's hard to do. If you've seen Legend of Bagger Vance, it's hard to do. I texted Zach during, while I was watching it, because he did not want to rewatch any of these with me,

believe it or not, having done this exact, yeah, he did this like five months ago. In fact, I turned on, I rented Wyatt Earp and it was like, would you like to resume Wyatt Earp?

And he had only made it one hour in. So I, I saw you, Zach. I just fast forwarded to the end. I asked if the golf swing was good. Is Kevin Costner's golf swing good in Tin Cup? I think it's above average. I think relative to like, for example,

we'll talk about the company men in a little while. Oh, yeah. Ben Affleck has a series of golf swings in that film. You can see by the way the film is edited, he does not have a good golf swing. The angles and from which he is shot. Do you think he plays golf? Ben Affleck, I do not.

Man, I just just I love him even more um it's a bad take tin cup it takes so much time that's the other thing you can't make a short golf movie because all golf rounds take like 85 hours and then you have to like warm up or whatever and you always have to drive two hours to get a good tea time I mean I guess Zach is having an affair that's what I'm learning right now live on this podcast but like Jesus Christ hurry up I'm, I mean, I guess Zach is having an affair. That's what I'm learning right now live on this podcast. But like, Jesus Christ, hurry it up. I'm glad you're able to say it without me saying it. Is Tinkup going in? Well, I don't know.

It was a modest hit, but it is beloved. It is definitely one of the best golf movies ever. I mean, what are the other golf movies? Baggervance. There's the Bobby Jones movie. I'm trying to think off the top of my head. There have really not been very many. Right.

So, like, that's not- Is it the golf movie? It might be. I'm sure I'm forgetting some. Oh, Caddyshack. Caddyshack the Bobby Jones movie. I'm trying to think off the top of my head. There have really not been very many. Right. So, like, that's not... Is it the golf movie? It might be. I'm sure I'm forgetting something. I guess it is the golf movie. Oh, Caddyshack. Caddyshack is the golf movie. Oh, sure.

Yeah. Caddyshack is number one. Um, Tin Cup might be two. The, the ending is really good, even if you loathe golf. I want to say green and we can, we can correct it. Okay. 1997, The Postman. Uh, I'd never seen this before.

I watched it for the first time yesterday um and this is what i'm talking about your family yesterday uh i actually did not we i only watched movies okay until well no i watched alice in the morning yeah and then from like 10 okay to 4 i watched movies okay and then from 4.30 on I was with Alice. But in the middle of the day, but in nap time, it was fine. No, that's fine. I thought you were going to say I was literally from 7 to midnight.

No, we had childcare in the morning, which was pretty sick. 97, The Postman, is another three-hour movie, another post-apocalyptic adventure movie in which Kevin Costner plays a fake postman. Right, and so he's restoring dignity to the postal service and also america to the idea of america which could

have an institution like the postal service yeah and that inspires people that like i mean that like community is coming back didn't that happen during the pandemic and when Trump tried to cut all the post offices and we were like that was me seeing tenant no we have to we have to protect the I have a huge amount of respect for the mail carriers yeah yeah yeah they let and they also let Knox sit in the trucks all the time one of my uncles was a mail carrier and uh it's a hard job also in the postman he's a fake postman who also performs like three lines of shakespeare at a time yeah he makes his money going from town to town performing shakespeare which many people have forgotten a lot in common with the tv show station 11 this movie oh yeah i never watched the show because the book made me too upset yeah he also impregnates olivia williams because he's still

got the juice even though he's in his 40s. Sure. Postman is red. Yeah, it's also like three hours long. It's an interesting noble failure. Yeah. Message in a Bottle, never seen it. I was trying to... Excuse me? I was supposed to get to it last night.

Excuse me? I watched Amazing Stories instead. Wow, Amanda logs on. This is why I didn't worry about not seeing... Do you know that Paul Newman is in this movie? I do, I do. As his dad? movie? I do. As his dad? Yeah, I do.

Okay. So, Kevin Costner lives somewhere at the Outer Banks. You know, it's a Nicholas Sparks situation. So, he lives in a nice part. I'm headed to the Outer Banks in one month. I know. In a nice part of North Carolina near the water. And it's basically sleepless in Seattle.

But instead of calling into a radio show, Kevin Costner has been putting letters in a bottle and sending them out to sea. And then a reporter, played by Robin Wright, finds them, goes to do a newspaper story. I guess they meet sooner. They fall in love, sort of. But then there are complications. I guess I don't really want to spoil it. Paul Newman just drinks a lot um and is there to needle kevin costner my guy it it looks pretty nice i mean shout out to the outer banks this movie

was a hit made 118 million dollars to go in it's also 131 minutes why why god why well you know they have to have i again i don't want to spoil things for you okay some twists happen yeah they again is it yellow or red it's definitely better than at least 10 to 15 movies that i watched but we'll say yellow for now because i feel like this is basically the beginning of the end with one exception i probably okay for love of the game not a a fan. Saw this at the time. Rewatched it. I understand that it's important to people who like the Detroit Tigers and or pitchers going through it on the mound. He very credibly plays an aging pitcher who's kind of like his life is flashing before his eyes during one game. Yeah. It's not really sports believable. Mm-hmm.

Bobby, do you agree with that as a baseball fan? Completely. There's like an unbelievable amount of errors committed in this script. Right, and then it's intercut with him reflecting on his relationship with Kelly Preston. And you just don't believe that at all. It's directed by Sam Raimi,

and it's a real pivot away from what Sam Raimi had been doing at the time and what he would go on to do. Right. Also, Brian Cox plays a friendly team owner. I guess he does have to sell the team, so he is not that friendly, but it's one of these things where you're supposed to believe that the money is also interested in the well-being of

the players don't believe that it's red to me not not movie that i don't really like very much uh 1999 he has a very small little cameo and play it to the bone not going in that's red 2000 so 13 days so you hadn't seen this because you you checked in about his accent yeah this was saving for the pod territory for me so i didn't respond respond. Well, 15 minutes in, I texted you. I was just like, well, I've just been exposed to Kevin Costner's Boston accent in 13 days. You know what's so weird? He does one in a later movie that we'll talk about that I think works, and it doesn't work in this movie. But this one is because he's trying to do a Kennedy because he is playing.

This is about the 13 days before the Bay of Pigs and he is playing Kenneth P. O'Donnell who was like the chief of staff or special assistant to an advisor an advisor to Jack Kennedy and and Bobby Kennedy and so you have Bruce Greenwood doing honestly like a pretty decent Kennedy I think this is a pretty solid movie yeah and then you have Stephen Culp as Bobby Kennedy which was tough for me just because Stephen Culp

plays he plays an incredibly unlikeable speaker of the house in like West Wing season five I want to say so I can't really

trust him even though this is a sympathetic portrayal of the Kennedys I would say. Most definitely. Yeah. And then

definitely valorizes Costner's just there looking like a little older and a little less handsome than the two Kennedys being like, what are we going to do? And then we got to do it. And then they do it. And it's, and it really is just like guys in rooms being like, but what about the missiles for like a long time?

It's not bad. It's wonky. It's a compelling docudrama. Yeah. It's like never gets over the pretty good ledge, but I like it. Um, it's red, but it's a, it's a compelling docudrama yeah it's like never gets over the pretty good ledge but i like it um it's red yeah but it's a it's a solid movie yeah 2001's three thousand miles to graceland did you watch this i could i i didn't get atrocious it might be the worst movie he's ever made i really wanted to because the poster and the the log line which is kevin costner being a

uh elvis impersonator being an Elvis impersonator? An Elvis impersonator teaming up with Kurt Russell, Christian Slater, Bo Keem Woodbine, and David Arquette as five Elvis impersonators

who rob the Riviera Casino. This movie was released eight months before Ocean's Eleven. It absolutely stinks. It is... It opens with a CGI Scorpion video game opening credit sequence,

and it closes with an Uncle Cracker song. It is hot garbage. Like, literally, it's easily the worst movie he's ever made. And it should be really fun. It's a great idea for a movie. Anyway, it's red. Moving on. 2002's Dragonfly, directed by Tom Shady,

is not watchable. Some of these movies are not streamable. I know. I did see this when it came out, but I don't remember it really at all. I did not see this when it came out, but I don't remember it really at all. I did not see it when it came out.

It feels like it's been scrubbed from society. Yeah. So it is not going in. We have so many more movies that I need to talk about. We're going to plow through in 25 minutes.

2003. No, I can't. This is the fun part. You always do this. Okay, open range. It's fine. No, it's a fucking classic. What are you talking about?

This is the best movie he's ever directed. Yeah, but it i guess is that saying anything this is a this is among okay that's fine you can have this is a we're not gonna be able to get all these movies green but this is a beloved movie among a certain class of person i think this is one of his best movies robert duvall amazing yeah yeah they're all good they're just like yellow it to keep it it's fine it's just like you know they're they're all good we can yellow it to keep it moving it's fine it's just like

you know they're in the west and what's gonna happen and are they gonna end up together and is the good guy gonna do the thing or is he not

and then they do this is a very bad take at some point I'm just like okay I've seen all of these the upside of anger

I can't believe this is a real movie so this is the the only other movie where he's kind of like crash davis it's kind of like if crash davis was a little more successful and became an alcoholic and also a podcaster except in this case it's a radio radio show yeah because it's 2005 um movies built around joan allen written and directed by mike binder and about a woman who has been left by her husband and spirals out into an alcoholic despair with three daughters four four daughters yeah and a next door neighbor who's next ball player radio host and they become intertwined drinking buddies and then more.

But also her daughters are having various issues and there was going to be a subdivision development behind their very beautiful home. And then there's just one of the great twists in movies, which I almost want to spoil it. But I don't spoil it. I mean, I don't want to, I don't think people should watch The Upside of Anger, but the ending is ridiculous. It's so funny. This movie is not not watchable.

It's okay. I mean, Joan Allen is being a real pill. Yes. Which is the point. And she's very good at that. She's good. Yeah. yes which is the point yes and she's very good at that she's good yeah I think he Binder said he liked working with her

on the Contender that Rod Lurie movie and was like and she should have more movies built around her and there's frankly not a lot of movies it's not going in

we gotta get to Rumor Has It we have to get to Rumor Has It it's one of the worst movies of all time I okay so I watched this finally I'd never seen it

and I watched it on the plane on the way on the way back for my European vacation. Directed by Rob Reiner. Stars Jennifer Aniston, Kevin Costner, Shirley MacLaine, Mark Ruffalo. Here we go.

Here's the setup. Jennifer Aniston figures out that her mom and grandmother were the inspiration for the graduation the graduate i mean the graduate thank you the graduate they were mrs robinson and elaine respectively in real life but in real life they it was just like pasadena society this is a very pasadena coded movie which i spent a lot of time jennifer is not elaine jennifer is the daughter is the daughter right her mom is elaine jennifer aniston is the daughter is elaine daughter right her mom is elaine and her mom has since passed and but shirley mclean is still around and so shirley mclean is mrs robinson just walking around pasadena and her she's never jennifer aniston despite being jennifer aniston circa 2005 has always felt like the black sheep of her family and like she doesn't fit in obituaries writer for the new york times right instead of being a tennis playing Pasadena person.

And so her sister's getting married. There are some speeches. She puts it together that, oh, like maybe she's not her father played by Richard Jenkins' daughter, but maybe she is the daughter of Ben Braddock. Bo Burroughs in this movie. Bo Burrows, who is played by Kevin Costner.

So Kevin Costner is cast as the real life inspiration for Ben Braddock, a.k.a. Dustin Hoffman, in The Graduate. And also Ben Braddock has become Bill Gates three times over. But he started and sold three different massively successful tech companies he's giving a speech

about the importance of the internet in this movie and then she goes to confront him so I mean that's already a thing that's incredible

right that this is what they're doing to the graduate and Shirley MacLaine as Mrs. Robinson is just like flapping around in a caftan

being like I don't know and then she goes to confront him. Kevin Costner's like, no, I'm sterile, so I can't be your dad. And two minutes later, they're fucking. She fucks the man who could be her dad. Who is Ben Braddock from The Graduate? You make it sound like a fun movie.

It is not. There's not a single laugh in this whole movie. And she's also, she's cheating on Mark Ruffalo, who's cast as like the corporate lawyer fiance, which is miscasting. But like when they actually fucked, I was like, I can't believe this is happening. But then the movie does not have the courage

of its convictions to have them end up together. She gets back together with Mark Ruffalo. Yeah, that sucks. She should have cut fucking Oscar. If we're going to go that far, let's do it. This movie was written by Ted Griffin, who wrote Ocean's Eleven. It's produced by Steven Soderbergh.

Ten days into the shoot, Steven Soderbergh fired Ted Griffin. Because he was like, my guy, you are fucking this up. And so they halted production and hired Rob Reiner. Of course, a filmmaker who's very adept at this kind of a movie. And it is a dog baby of a movie.

It was the best plane watch experience that I've had in at least five years. If you are on a plane, I'm sorry I spelled it for you, but there are individual moments that really just... Bobby, I need you to get that, Dario Argento blood red over this one on the document. This is like the reddest red you can find.

I'll write an email to the fine folks at Google and see if they can give me better options for highlighting on our Google Doc here. You need to send an email to God to see if God can find a more radiant red. Jennifer Anderson goes with Costner to some like opulent Silicon Valley, like gala that he has to attend where she meets his. Anyway, she meets his son and she's like, oh, you lied to me.

You're not sterile. And there's like a whole moment of just being like, oh no, I just had sex with my dad. But anyway, it's all staged. It's supposed to be in San Francisco, but it's all staged at Pasadena city hall because they you know clearly ran out of budget to go anywhere else i love

pasadena city hall a local landmark in my family um in absolutely incredible film artifact you can put it i mean it should be read but i encourage every single listener of this podcast to seek it out and study it i can't say i support that it is it is remarkable 2006 the guardian did you re-watch this i did but i it's they're all blurry together for me which one's oh this is ashton kutcher oh so uh i think if you just put i don't know um ben foster in this part instead of ashton kutcher yeah it's a pretty good movie yeah yeah But he's just so not adept. It's a movie about the Coast Guard and the team of Coast Guard. Special Rescue.

Special Rescue. And Kevin Costner plays a legendary Special Rescue diver swimmer. And there's a couple of sequences of like diving, especially in the beginning, where he saves people that are fucking amazing. There's like some really good stuff. It's Andrew Davis who made The Fugitive. He directed this movie. Some of this is really good, but everything that is like Ashton Kutcher's life. It really sucks. It's lousy. It's a Davis who made The Fugitive. He directed this movie. Some of this is really good but everything that is like

Ashton Kutcher's life is lousy. It really sucks. It's a dad's rock movie though. Like this is a real dad movie. My mom's boyfriend for years this was his favorite movie.

It's just like it's another artifact of like oh yeah in 2006 we all thought Ashton Kutcher was going to do it. He didn't do it. He really didn't do it. So it's red.

2007 Mr. Brooks never seen it. Not available. Not available. Kevin Costner plays a serial killer. I'd like to see it. And he doesn't want you to see that, so he's had it removed from all...

Do you think that's what it is? I wondered. You're suspect. You know, I had a little JFK in my brain. He's in a tricky time in his career. He's basically like no longer a box office draw leading man at this point. 2008 swing vote, you mentioned this earlier. I thought this was reprehensible.

It's very bad. This is about a guy who threw... At least he's playing a washed up guy again. I don't think he's the worst part of this movie. Or at least his performance. He's okay. He's a drunk and he doesn't vote even though his daughter really wants him to vote.

And then it turns out she votes... There's some mishegas with the voting machine, but, you know, not in a 2000 way. And then he winds up being the swing vote for like the entire presidential election because New Mexico is like the essential state and there's only one vote. This has a lot of like Wolf Blitzer and all the cnn anchors playing along and you know filming things and then it's it has just this absolutely ridiculous speech at the end where like kevin costner is the average man's like his failure of personal responsibility is like the real problem with why we're all you know here we are today and both presidential candidates are great and the system's not failing us like

we're failing ourselves or whatever bullshit and then you don't find out who he votes for um and i thought it sucked red 2009's the new daughter i sent this to um david simms griffin newman and alex ross perry and i said guys what is this movie i've never heard of this movie oh right this was the horror movie uh they've never heard of this movie. Oh, right. This was the horror movie. They've never seen it. Does it exist? I'm not really sure. I did not watch it.

I think it, by default, is red. Okay. Could that be the only movie that the four of you have never seen? Like, the only horror movie that none of you have seen it? It was... We were stumped. We were like, when did this come out?

What studio is this? Where did this come from? I'm sure someone's seen it. Listen, we have so many more we have to keep going 2010 you just recapped all of Rumor Has It

I've been waiting two months to talk about Rumor Has It okay 2010 The Company Men she fucks Ben Braddock but

60 year old Ben Braddock yeah also plastics worked out for him but whatever that's a good point The Company Men very small part

in this movie did you watch this yeah Ben Affleck was in it i think this is a catastrophic movie i think this is like one of the worst ideas for a movie of all time which is what about executives um just really not a good idea ben affleck plays a a rising corporate executive in a shipbuilding company who gets laid off because of a corporate merger and the stock price and all these things. And because Tommy Lee Jones is sleeping with the HR woman and played by Maria Bello and not paying attention. So he's really bad, but there's nothing he can do about it. And then Rosemary DeWitt is supposed to be like a working class-ish Boston, or I guess middle class. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Upper middle class.

Upper middle class. I mean mean their house is really beautiful But then they have to sell it Has anyone considered how the executives feel About downsizing I'm like god come on I get it And then Costner is like the brother-in-law who he hates Who's the salt of the earth contractor

And he's very good Yeah he's good He doesn't do or say anything He doesn't have He's like the He's the drywall of the movie good yeah he's good he doesn't have anything to he doesn't do or say anything he doesn't have a he's like the the he's the drywall of the movie yeah you know like then he somebody puts a drywall and costner you know like harrison ford is one of those guys who like had some real world jobs sure yeah super famous and you kind of believe him when he's doing this stuff anyway it's red

um interesting interesting thing that happens here in 2011 he He's signed up to do Django Unchained. He's going to play Ace Woody, who is a, quote, Mandingo trainer. This is a big part in the movie Django Unchained, except it isn't because Kevin Costner dropped out of the movie and Quentin Tarantino cut the character from the movie and merged it with another character that Walton Goggins played. Fascinating sliding door of whether or not Kevin Costner could have gotten into the Tarantino mold. Tarantino, huge fan of Revenge. I think that's why he cast him in this.

Oh, interesting. Okay. Just a notable moment because what he does, this colors the rest of his career, is he takes on Hatfields and McCoys for the History Channel. Right. A 350-minute TV miniseries. Yeah.

Which is clearly like a little bit of an inspiration for what's coming with Yellowstone. This is actually a huge hit for the History Channel. No, it was a big deal. And it kind of revives him. Did he win some Emmys or at least? Or like a SAG award or something? Yeah, sure.

But this kind of brings him out of the rumor has it muck. It's TV, so it's not going in. Yes, not going in. 2013 Man of Steel. He plays Pa Kent, Jonathan Kent, Superman's adopted dad. Yeah. Adoptive dad. Man of Steel is an abomination. I despise it. I do love Kevin Costner as Jonathan Kent, Superman's adoptive dad. Yeah. Adoptive dad. Man of Steel is an abomination.

I despise it. I do love Kevin Costner as Jonathan Kent. Superman's adoptive dad is good casting. I agree. Yeah. But you don't really have a lot to do. Jack Ryan, Shadow Recruit. Okay, honestly, this was not that bad.

It's okay. And I was kind of like, maybe I am not appreciating Kevin Branagh enough for what he does which is like make watch Kevin Branagh Kenneth Branagh but maybe I did say Kevin Branagh because it's all Kenneth's younger brother all blending together but this is directed by Kenneth Branagh who also stars as a uh a Russian KSB agent with cirrhosis Kenneth Branagh loves money. Stage three. He really loves money. And Keira Knightley just diagnoses him over the table because she, for some reason, is playing Chris Pine as Jack Ryan's doctor fiance. And this is entertaining. Kevin Costner is just like the old time CIA guy who recruits Jack Ryan as the shadow recruit and like teaches him some stuff and they just like do some missions. And otherwise he just stands there looking stoic and impatient. He's good at it.

I was, I was entertained by this film. It's like a two and a half stars kind of a movie. Like it's okay. The franchise died until John Krasinski revived it on Amazon because of this. Well, I prefer this to the Krasinski Amazon stuff. That's all I'm saying.

Okay, that's fair. This year, he makes four movies. The second movie in 2014 that he makes is Three Days to Kill, which is directed by Mick G. Okay, right. That's why I didn't watch it for that reason. I watched it. It's produced by Luc Besson and EuropaCore,

and it's a classic EuropaCore shoot-em-up movie where he plays an assassin who has cancer and is on one last job. Yeah. It's really not good. It's great. 2014 draft day. Okay. What are we going to do here?

So here's how I rewatched, is I just fast-forwarded until I saw our buddy Tim Simons on the screen, or Jennifer Garner on the screen. Or Griffin Newman. That's true but but but Tim and Griffin are in a lot of the same scenes and there's also one scene where Jennifer Garner and Kevin Costner are talking about what it means to be football in America and and Cleveland in a closet and then Griffin shows up and does a great job. I thought your comedic timing in that was great Griffin. But but that does a pretty good job of getting you through the movie

and getting you to the absolutely insane draft day standoff where it's sort of like a tin cup thing where obviously none of, I don't even follow the drafts. I think you're all crazy. But I understood that this is not how this works. But him just being-

It's certainly not how you make trades on draft day. Him just being on the phone being like, I want my picks back is like great. I loved it. I don't think this should go in, but it was entertaining. It's entertainingly bad. Yeah.

It is memorable, but not good. Yeah. It is not going in. Okay. It is- But we love our friends. It's one of the last like,

quote unquote, big movies with a big director that he made where he's the lead guy on the poster. Yeah. 2014 Black or White. I didn't rewatch it. I did see it in 2014. I rewatched it. Goodness.

This wouldn't get made today. No, it would not. I really, I don't have a lot more to add to it. It's one of those things where, I mean, I guess I don't have a lot more to add to it it's one of those things where I mean I I guess I'll should I be recapping it? we only have like

okay I read the Wikipedia page and then just to be glad from the duo that brought you the upside of anger Mike Binder and Kevin Costner comes

black or white a searing drama a grandfather learning about racial relationships black grandchildren in modern day America it's red McFarland USA A lingering drama about a white grandfather taking care of his black grandchildren. Yeah. In modern day America.

It's red. McFarland, USA. Kind of a similar flavor. A little bit more bland middle of the road, but a got... I mean, this is on Disney+, which I did, you know, I watched it last night. Yeah, it was fine. It's about a football coach who gets fired for throwing a cleat at one of his students and can't get a job anywhere. He throws it at the locker. And it bounces off the locker.

And he gets hired to be a football coach in a town called McFarland, USA. Primarily a Latino population in this town. And he immediately gets moved on from the football team and he decides to coach cross-country. You cross-country runner? Yeah. It's like a spirited

like earnest. Right. And then the team does really well. I tried Googling the California State Cross Country Championships to find out

if it had ever been held in Griffith Park which number one is a mean thing to do for a cross country. It's a hard run. It's a hard run. They are running up

that hill to the observatory which is really mean but I don't think it has. It used to be my hike in LA. Yeah, but you weren't like sprint has. That used to be my hike in LA. Yeah, but you weren't like sprinting. They're doing pretty good times, like 16 minutes for the 5K. Impressive.

I broke 20 once. That was my, or a couple times. Congrats. Was this recently? No, that was in high school when I was a state champion cross country runner. No big deal. The team was. I wasn't number one.

Whatever. They explain how cross-country so let's keep talking okay anyway most of the championships now are held in like fresno they aren't getting like beautiful la griffith park um but mcfarland usa is red yeah batman versus superman dawn of justice automatic green awesome no that's red he plays jonathan kent 2016 criminal i also watched this just another fiasco of a crime movie right from him um is red yeah 2016 hidden figures reunited with octavia spencer after their incredible work exploring race relations this time in the 60s um he's not bad in this but it's at at NASA yeah he's like the paternal figure at NASA yeah

but then believes and sort of like helps the women mathematicians do their thing yes so they can get to the moon it's not going in 2017

Molly's game green or what I'm walking off the podcast come on be fucking real be

real be real what are we doing here if Molly's game game if kevin costner we're not leaving range off and putting molly's game in being like i wasn't a good dad and that is why you're gonna go to prison for running a celebrity gambling ring just showing up on a bench lights out you can you can put it in the amandabins ring of fame. No, don't distance yourself from this. I laughed out loud when this speech happened. Yeah, but it's incredible. If you don't understand that this has to be green, then you don't have any beliefs at all. I don't have any

beliefs at all. You're a hollow person. This is such betrayal of everything that we have done. Do you know how many molly's games episodes that we did during the pandemic do you know and like costar comes in hits a grand slam in the dark in central park being like i let you down it is perfect come on what else we're not gonna have anything green from the last 25 years the beginning of the end for aaron sorkin is him being like this strong independent woman can be explained by her complicated relationship with her dad it is the perfect summary of the last 30 years of costner's career come on the last 30 years of his career stink what are you talking about we i i can't believe you're not gonna let this be green he's in two scenes yeah and he walks away with them.

I would be stunned if there's a single listener out there who's like, Molly's game must go in. What are we doing here? If we're just doing like, well, another fucking Western. Have you seen Molly's game? Yes, I've seen Molly's game. But the funniest part of this whole argument to be that we're underrating here is that there are already 10 greens already 10 we already have 10 greens in here for some reason this is so boring why don't you just put top 10 box office films in the hall of fame then sean what are we doing

every single movie that's in right now is better than molly's game including water world i i mean water world and tin cup are not better than molly's game but that what 10 cup is not better than what molly's game are you insane is this just because you don't like the poker what happened to you molly's game is fun but it's like it is it is a it is not a successful movie like it's fun but like it is literally the beginning of the end for sorkin like it's being ricardo's is next and then we're the trial of chicago 7 and we're off the rails. No, trial of Chicago 7 was before

being the Ricardos. Those are both, I mean, this is like, it is, he's like, I'm a director now and so I forgot how to write. Which inspired Oppenheimer. Listen,

I can't believe that it was so classic Costner. I mean, I'll let you have a yellow. This is like a nothing part. No, you're no fun.

Maybe so. We need no fun. Maybe so. We need to finish. That sucks. The Highwaymen, directed by John Lee Hancock. No. Definitely not in. The Art of Racing

and the Rain, do you know what part he plays in this? He plays the voice of Enzo. Do you know who Enzo is? A Ferrari? He's a dog. Oh, okay.

I'm mad at you. I thought we were going to have a moment. We did have a moment. It just didn't work out in your favor let him go did you see this

yeah I did I think it's okay yeah you and Zach both really liked it but this was like a pandemic thing it was

yeah and I tried turning on again last night at like 930 and I was like I'm costnered out he's actually trying in this

which is what I like yeah there's a really good Leslie Manville performance in that movie Zack Snyder's Justice League also Otto Green and 2024 Horizon American

Saga chapter one without spoiling Horizon would you put it in his Hall of Fame well I don't know what we're doing here anymore so you're being outraged about Molly's game peak weird I just I can't

believe we're talking about an American icon of the screen yes and for five minutes in the dark explaining another american icon's misguided psychology to her is kevin costner america's dad dadding out all right um i i mean i don't i don't think it is i don't think it is either but that's not like a that's not a negative referendum yeah i agree i don't want to spoil anymore here's what we have on the list right now if we were doing what is important in costner's career well i guess we still wouldn't because i know we don't believe in tracking but you know i don't know it's not

looking good i don't know if he's gonna make back i don't know if he's keeping all the estates. It's not looking good. At the moment, we have six yellows and two, four, six, eight, 10 greens. I'm going to read the greens. Okay. The Untouchables, No Way Out, Bull Durham, Field of Dreams, Dances with Wolves, Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves, JFK, The Bodyguard, Perfect World, and Tin Cup. The yellows are The Big Chill, Fandango, Silverado, Waterworld, Open Range, and Molly's Game. I mean, I've already made my play and been rejected. So you do whatever you want with Open Range versus Robin Hood versus The Bodyguard versus whatever.

You can't take out a Perfect World because that's actually good. But, like, you can't take out Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves and put in Molly's game. Well, I have already lost. Well... As has America several times over.

What would you take out? If you could switch one thing. I know the bodyguard was such a thing, but that's also... Even in that movie, that is... It was a phenomenon and it's a Whitney Houston thing. So, it also, even in that movie, that is,

it was a phenomenon and it's a Whitney Houston thing. So it would definitely go in the Whitney Houston Hall of Fame. For sure. It's a pretty short episode. Excuse me. I mean, she acted

in like five movies. I mean, film only. Well, this is a movie podcast. Okay. Do you want to do the Whitney Houston Hall of Fame music podcast? I think that we were doing okay.

And I just... You flipped out on me. I think you could take out the bodyguard. Did you re-watch Molly's game? No, it just lives in my memory. Okay, give it another look. I'm sorry to have some podcast bits, okay? I'm sorry to have some ideas.

It's great to have a bit. It's great to have a bit. I just, I didn't think that you were gonna like, what's it called in wrestling? No sell. Yeah, I didn't think you were gonna do it that hard. I thought that you were gonna... That's what it feels like like i thought you're gonna have a spirit of fun i thought this was gonna be collaborative i brought my a game to this pod um i worked really hard researching this

did i well you're insinuating i didn't i didn't even fight for rumor has it as a yellow well that would have been ludicrous it's the worst movie of the 21st century no it's not it's in it's in the conference jennifer aniston is a net negative presence presence i gotta say yeah there are worse movies released in the last two months like what's on what's going on with unfrosted come on have you seen rumor has it yeah i just watched it this weekend not the worst century not good but not the worst good but the ways in which it's preposterous it's bad because of what it's doing where it's like, you know what? The graduate wasn't the last word, guys. We got to circle back.

Shut up. What are you doing? And then poor Shirley MacLaine has to show up and like do nothing. Yeah. Yeah.

Everybody likes money. It's great. I understand. But there's 10 very credible movies here. Okay. I'm just saying if you want to remove anything,

I think you can remove the bodyguard without you've got you've got other tributes to Costner's pop cultural power in that time period. And that is not

like the that's Whitney first. I don't know what you would put in its place though. I thought you I mean you were just like whining about open range. Well I like it.

Okay. Well I'm trying to be nice. Me praising something is not whining. I like Molly's game. I, I like it. Okay. Well, I'm trying to be nice. Me praising something is not whining. I like Molly's game. I understand. You know. I'm not going to advocate

for putting in open range. I do think people should watch open range. Okay. It's an excellent Western. Okay. But I think that it's maybe not as important to his story

as the 10 that we've chosen. All right. Do you accept? Yeah, mostly. You should protest this movie or this pod the way that like coaches protest games after they've been completed. I'm so excited to put Molly's game.

I thought that was just going to be like a wacky thing we were going to do together. And that's fine. I'm sorry that you're heartbroken. I would encourage you to maybe revisit the film Molly's Game where you can learn that it is wildly flawed and kind of stupid. I know all those things. I sat through 40 fucking years of Kevin Costner movies,

okay? This Hall of Fame is represented entirely within 10 years. 1987 to 1996. I know. And then I watched the other 30 years.

I know. It's not ideal. That's it. That's the podcast. We did well for a while. I think it's a very good episode. And then, and then I guess the inevitable happened. Are you more of a Lieutenant John Dunbar or more of a Robert Butch Haynes?

Who's Robert Butch Haynes? I'm a perfect world. Oh, uh, I like to think I'm more of a Butch Haynes. Yeah. I'm Dunbar for sure. I would buy the kid the costume. You would? Yeah.

And encourage him to wear it as much as he wants. Bob, what's the one mistake we made? I don't think there is a glaring mistake here. I mean, the three that I was going to really stick my neck out for were Bull Durham, Field of Dreams, and Tin Cup, just because he is the greatest athlete who's ever been on screen in my personal opinion the most natural at least and the most charismatic so i don't think there's a glaring mistake here is he the best athlete movie star ever i think so

yeah he switch hits in bull durham to me that takes the cake right there a credible switch hitter come on that that's a story that shelton tells in that vanity fair story where he's like yeah we like went out and we just went to the batting cage to hang out and talk about the script. And I never met him before. And he just started hitting from the right side

and the left side while we were shooting the shit. And I was like, it's pretty fucking cool. That's my guy from that moment on. Costner rocks. Okay. Thanks, Amanda.

Thanks to Alea Zanaris. Thanks to Bobby Wagner. As I said, we will be breaking down Horizon and American Saga Chapter 1. We'll also talk about A Quiet Place Day 1.

You seen that yet? No, but I'm... It's the big movie of the weekend. I will have seen it by the time we record it because that's the kind of preparation you can expect

here on The Big Picture. Really appreciate that. Thanks to all the Molly's game fans out there. You were seen today by one woman on this podcast. And, uh, if you haven't seen open range, check it out. We'll see you next week.