The Big Picture - The Kevin Hart Fiasco and the Best Performances of 2018 With Wesley Morris | The Oscars Show (Ep. 106)

Episode Date: December 11, 2018

Kevin Hart is out as host of the Academy Awards after a bungled non-apology tour. What happens next (0:50)? Plus: What the Los Angeles Film Critics Association awards mean for ‘Roma,’ ‘A Star Is Born,’ and the Best Picture race (11:45), and a conversation about the best acting performances of the year with The New York Times’ Wesley Morris (19:30). Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guest: Wesley Morris Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up, guys? It's Liz Kelley. Throughout the month of December, we are writing a ton of year-end reviews on the site, ranking the best and worst moments of 2018 in music, TV, film, and sports. You can check that out on TheRinger.com. Also, make sure to listen to the two latest editions to The Ringer Podcast Network. We've got Villains with Shea Serrano and Winging It with Vince Carter and Kent Bazemore. You can subscribe on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Sean Fennessy.

I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about the Oscars. Amanda, have you seen The Wife? I have not seen The Wife. I haven't seen The Wife either. We still have not seen The Wife. One person that has seen The Wife is The New York Times' Wesley Morris. He'll be joining us later in this show to talk about the very best performances of the year. But boy, the needle

is moving in the Oscar news and Kevin Hart is out as host. When Wesley was here last week, we talked to him about what was happening with Kevin Hart before he was out as Oscar host. This is what he suggested he do. Kevin Hart, call Robin Roberts. You better be on GMA right now. Like by the time this conversation is taking place, I want, you should have talked to Robin Roberts

and just thrown yourself in her lap and just said, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I didn't, I mean, I meant it, but I don't mean it now. And I'm really sorry. I'm a, I'm a different person. I work with The Rock.

That obviously will not come to pass now as Kevin Hart is out. Amanda, first reflections, last week when we talked, you said, pay me $500,000 and I will work for ABC to read old tweets. ABC did not read those old tweets. How do you feel about Kevin Hart being out as the Oscars host? Well, it was pretty predictable for the reasons that we discussed last week, if only because we're going to talk a lot about all the different sides of this, because this is a real hornet's nest of issues. It's a mess, and it's a mess that didn't have to happen if ABC would just have read the damn tweets. And by the way, anyone from ABC listening, you're hiring a new Oscars host right now, offer still on the table. Let me know. But in very specific terms, I would have said even Thursday that I thought he was going to be fired just because there is a precedent in the past year with ABC and Disney firing people because

of their bad tweets. And I think James Gunn and Roseanne kind of established a course of action that they were kind of locked in. They didn't really have a choice unless, say, Kevin Hart apologized. And should we move to round two of this discussion? Yeah, I mean, it's an interesting thing. I think he definitely could have been, he could have preserved this, I think, if he had approached this in the sort of thoughtful,

slow, calm, appropriate way that we all, I think, essentially hoped he would and expected that he would, which is just to come forward and say, which is something that he has noted that he has said before, but 2009, 2010 is a different time. I've evolved as a man. I'm sorry for what I said. It doesn't make it any bit better, but I'm doing my best to be better. And I want to go forward and be the best person I can be as the Oscars host. And thank you for understanding that I'm trying to evolve. And he didn't say that. He said a series of other things. Let's hear one of those things. So I just got a call from the Academy and that call basically said, Kevin,

apologize for your tweets of old, or we're going to have to move on and find another host. Talking about the tweets from 2009, 2010. I chose to pass. I passed on the apology. The reason why I passed is because I've addressed this several times. This is not the first time this has come up. I've addressed it. I've spoken on it. I've said where the rights and wrongs were. I've said who I am now versus who I was then. I've done it. I've done it. So I guess I don't totally understand Kevin Hart's stridency. I do understand that famous people surround themselves with a bubble that allows, that doesn't allow criticism to get in. And that's a factor when you look at people not necessarily reacting to criticism in a thoughtful way. It's hard to be criticized. I get that.

This wasn't the right way to do it. And ultimately, he played the zero-sum game and lost big time because he ultimately did end up apologizing. So he gave this statement. He posted a video on Instagram that was ghoulish. He then decided to step down as Oscars host and then apologized, which in the strategic formulation of crisis management is like 0 for 5 with 5 strikeouts. Yeah, it's very clear that there was not a crisis management team on hand. And if there was one, then I hope you guys are no longer employed. You know, there has been some discussion since this all happened about kind of why Kevin Hart responded the way this did and why people are kind of like, huh, why this is such a mess. And there is a question of who gets held accountable for these sorts of statements and who doesn't.

A lot of people have been pointing out that Mel Gibson was nominated for an Oscar just last year, which is an extremely valid point. And there is also the fact that these are tweets from almost a decade ago. Now, they're really ugly, and they include homophobic slurs. So, and they're still up on the internet, which is nuts. That's just really bad strategy. You know, that said, this whole cancellation culture, blah, blah, blah, it's a thing we have to keep talking about. And if everyone can be held responsible for every single thing they've ever said, blah, blah, blah. It's a thing we have to keep talking about. And if everyone can be held

responsible for every single thing they've ever said, well, maybe they should be. But, you know, the way we go about this is evolving and can often happen very quickly and not feel totally judicious. Yeah, we're in an evolving culture insofar as there's no rules for how to approach this stuff. I saw a lot of the responses, particularly there were a handful of people that were defending Kevin Hart after he stepped down, most notably Nick Cannon, though he did not name Kevin Hart, shared a few tweets from white female comics, Chelsea Handler, Sarah Silverman, Amy Schumer, that all featured various forms of really ugly hate speech in the same realm as the Kevin Hart tweets. Now,

obviously none of those three people have been asked to host the Oscars, but they've had an enormous amount of opportunity and they're famous people. And so Nick Cannon, in an effort to show the double standard, likewise with the Mel Gibson thing that you noted, people pointing out that he was just recently nominated for an Oscar, which is insane,

given what he did 10 years ago. We find ourself in this real looking glass scenario where everything that anybody's ever done requires examination. And I don't necessarily think that that's wrong, though I do think that the way that you handle it dictates what happens in the future. And Kevin Hart just fucked this up. Yeah, he fucked it up two ways. Number one, that is the world that we're in, whether or not it's always fair and whether or not that we want it to be that way going forward. It's just kind of how it works right now.

And so you got to delete the tweets. You got to delete the tweets, especially if you want to say that you've addressed the situation and that your thinking has evolved. Then a great way to prove that is to get rid of the terrible hate speech. But that strategy aside, he had an opportunity to apologize, and he didn't. I chose to pass on the apology. Okay, well, that's game over right there.

You know, it's a funny thing because we don't want to make light of the situation at all. But when we were discussing it before we started recording, the phrasing and the language that he used in defiance of this was very strange and kind of funny. I thought, I don't think he was trying to be funny, but very quickly, I'm in love with the man that I am becoming became a meme. That is an absurd series of phrases to defend yourself against things that you did 10 years ago.

And of course I chose to pass on the apology, which I think if, I don't know, Lady Gaga had said this five years ago in the light of a controversy, it would have been considered hilarious and we would have been valorizing her bravery in the statement. Obviously in this context, it's terrible. and I just don't know what Kevin Hart

was thinking. Let's look to the future. It's Monday afternoon on the East Coast. We don't know who the Oscar host is going to be. Right before Kevin Hart was named, we mentioned that this is really like a very thankless job and the Academy has a tough task in compelling someone to do this job for, while a good amount of money, it's lucrative for a week's work, but it is a week's work. You need a truly famous person to do it. And as the ratings sink and the power of live events shrinks, what really is the value of being the host of the Oscars? And I don't know. What do you think that they'll do? It's a great question. We talked last week about how the Golden Globes hosts are actually a good, fun approach to the situation.

There's Sandra Oh and Andy Samberg, who are not hugely famous, but are recognizable to certain groups of people, have very passionate fan bases, and will also make for a fun show. And number one, they need to read the tweets when they're hiring a new host. But then number two, I think instead of thinking of someone who will bring the largest audience, they got to find someone who will just make a fun show.

And I think that's probably someone less famous than Kevin Hart or Chris Rock or Oprah or... Anyone. I mean, when we went through this almost 10 years ago with Brett Ratner, the Academy leaned back to the past and pulled Billy Crystal out and brought him back for, I think, his fifth hosting duty. And, you know, that was effective enough. It did the job. Billy Crystal is a very professional and appreciated Oscar host.

I don't know if they have their version of a Billy Crystal at this stage. I mean, it's not off the table that Billy Crystal won't host the Oscars. When I was just speaking, I was saying what the Academy should do. And what the Academy should do and what the Academy does is often very different and makes us tear our hair out and is the reason that we're here talking about this whole debacle. You know, the one thing that I've been thinking about, too, is will they actively make an attempt to address the controversy in hiring a new host? Will they bring someone in who's LGBTQ?

Will they bring in someone who is a very progressive figure? Like, I saw people saying, like, Hannah Gadsby should be hosting the Oscars. Now, regardless of what you think about Hannah Gadsby's comedy or her career, like she's just not famous enough to host this show. There's no chance that someone like that is going to be named the host of the show. I think you also just can't. Hannah Gadsby does a meta commentary on what comedy is, and that's she's very good at it and it has its use. And you cannot do meta commentary at the Oscars. You need someone who's going to sell this ridiculous dog and pony show. It is a ridiculous dog and pony show. It is a popularity contest. It is a bunch of famous people in a room patting each other on the back. And you need someone

who can go along with that because the host is effectively selling. We should still be doing this. The Oscars, they still matter, or at least they're worth watching for the next three hours. And I don't think that that is in Hannah Gadsby's range. Yeah, I think it's also a big tent show. It's a show that a lot it has to appeal to a lot of people. So not just, you know, sort of protecting and supporting the premise of the Oscars, but also bringing in as many people as possible to make them feel like they're included and interested in this quote unquote race.

It's a really weird, difficult job. I don't, I'm not really interested in the like, here's who should host. Like candidly, they should just give Lin-Manuel Miranda like $5 million and just have him do it. I thought they should have done that six months ago. I suspect he doesn't want to do it. And that's why that hasn't happened. But he, it is synchronized perfectly to him performing in a big movie and him being a beloved Hollywood and New York figure. But barring that, I don't, you know, we can go down the list of people, but it's kind of banal to me. I would agree.

I'm still holding out hope for Drake. Drake's not going to host the Oscars, but that would be fun. I would enjoy that. Yeah, it's tough because it's a really hard job that is kind of a lose situation for anyone except someone who needs the exposure. And so I think that's what you're going to get.

I don't know whether Lin-Manuel Miranda needs the exposure at this point. He may not. He may not. Maybe we should get like an Instagram influencer. Oh gosh. No? No. Imagine if Tummy T sponsored the Oscars. That's that would, oh no. This is a jam session crossover here.

Yeah. Okay. There's no real easy way to pivot from this, but we're going to pivot from this and talk a little bit about everything that happened over the weekend with the Critics Awards. You know, I think most notably the Los Angeles Film Critics Association, which has been not necessarily a bellwether for winners, but certainly a bellwether for nominees in the past. Along with the New York Film Critics Circle and a series of other bodies, they named Roma Best Film. And it's interesting. I think you and I might think Roma is the best film, if not among the best films of the year.

This is very much like the Golden Globes, though with a different sort of constitution, a small group of people making a decision to name something best. And whenever this happens, it's easy to court controversy. This one in particular, I don't think is controversial at all. I do think it's notable because it feels a little bit like 2010 because in 2010 New York LA and the Golden Globes all named the social network best film and that was obviously in the dramatic category for the Golden Globes and then the King's Speech won which is not a good movie and I do think that there is a case for either A Star is Born being the King's Speech

this year or Green Book, which is a little wild, but it's possible. I just physically recoiled at you putting A Star is Born and the King's Speech in the same sentence. That's unfair. That's unfair. I know what you mean. And in terms of awards and I get it, but rude. It's not a judgment about the films. I'm a big fan of A Star is Born. It's more about what the Academy responds to versus what critics, groups, and journalists respond to. I would agree with that. And I think even a few weeks ago when we were talking about, you know, all the critics' words are coming, I was kind of like, I think Roma will sweep because there really has been this advocacy on the part of Roma from critics and just make sure you see it and see it on a screen.

And it is a masterpiece. And, you know, I agree with all of those things. I think it's wonderful, but it has become the movie that critics and and this is where you get into trouble. Like serious film people think that they need to protect and boost and I think you're right that that puts it in a tricky spot because once it becomes like the serious film there is a whole group of people that are like I don't know I you can't yes a lot of Hollywood people will will reject that they they are not necessarily interested in preserving that culture. And it kind of speaks to the tension.

It speaks to the, you know, Zero Dark Thirty versus Avatar. It speaks to the Moonlight versus La La Land. Like we always find ourselves in the situation now where there's this binary between, you know, the true cinephiles masterpiece and then the big Hollywood self-mythologizing story. And I don't know why this keeps happening. Maybe it's just because the human brain is split between two sides and it always needs to balance itself out that way. Or maybe it's just because Hollywood is silly, but I couldn't help but seeing it this weekend. And I should say the LA Film Critics Association, I thought did an awesome job of being the LA Film Critics Association. They named so many great performances and films that I appreciated that was on our top 10 list that we've talked about on this show. Burning getting recognition,

Minding the Gap getting recognition, Ethan Hawke getting recognition, Regina King getting recognition, Tony Collette, Steven Yeun. So many people that people like me and you, particularly people like me, have spent time saying, check this out. You got to watch this. It's so good. It's so unique. I'm very impressed by what they did. It'll be very interesting to see if the critical mind is moving any closer to the Hollywood mind because of the way that the Academy has changed in the last four or five years. Do you think that that's plausible? I think it's really interesting. I was thinking this morning about how we're not going to know in the way that we normally know after the Golden Globes or by late January. You usually have a sense of things. It's usually a long march through February to confirm what we have suspected for weeks and weeks. And because Roma is not competing in either category at the Golden Globes, there's just going to be a lot of other films in the mix.

And you won't really have The Star is Born and Roma head-to-head in a full mainstream capacity until the Oscars. So I think that's kind of exciting. I think it's interesting how A Star is Born is still really quiet right now. And I know that once the Golden Globes come back, Shallow is obviously nominated for a Grammy and a Golden Globe in successive days. Like, I have been listening to it a lot. The time is coming. But, you know, I think the conversation will mutate a couple times because A Star is Born will have its moment and then people may get a little tired of that. Roma will come back in. It doesn't feel to me, and maybe this is just because I'm a mark for

Roma. I just think it's astonishing. That's the other thing. Most people still haven't seen Roma. Right. This is release week, theoretically, for most people in this country. Which is amazing. And so we'll have, we'll never actually know how many people watch Roma on Netflix, but we'll have a sense of what the general audience's response is to Roma, which may change things. You know, I really do think that it is more than a critic's pick. Like, it just is astonishing. And the reason that we do this show is because part of me wants to believe that people will like really will embrace it and movies are powerful and, you know, it will take the Oscars. I don't know. You're probably right.

I spoke to a couple of people on Thursday about, you know, kind of how people vote and why they vote. Two of these people were voters and they're new to the Academy and people on Thursday about, you know, kind of how people vote and why they vote. Two of these people were voters and they're new to the Academy and they were both like, I don't really want to reward that. You know, I don't really want to reward the Netflix experience over the theatrical experience, which is a very straightforward conversation that we've been having for pretty much since Beast of No Nation and that our first Netflix campaign for the Oscars. But people just feel that way. They just don't want to support removing a movie from the theater-going experience. And it's complicated. Now, obviously, they've put this movie in 600 theaters around the world, which is not nothing. It's a sincere effort. It's not as

sincere an effort as the thousand theaters that The Favourite's going to get into next weekend. And I don't know. You know, I don't know what to be invested in anymore. That's the kind of complicated aspect of the movie business right now is it's hard to know what to say is the best possible thing because Roma is such a special movie

made on such special terms, such basically unprecedented terms that to say, well, this thing is more powerful than this thing, or this thing was more meaningful to the future of movies than this thing. It's just a moving target. Can I add one more thing here? Preferential ballot, which we haven't even talked about because it is actually not just Roma versus Star is Born because- That's why the green book thing I think is real.

Yeah. And throw the favorite in, which a lot of people are really loving. And you have so many different types of movies here. And so how someone decides to rank them is all the difference. So I really don't know. It is kind of interesting. It is. There's a reason that we launched this podcast. You know, we knew it was going to be a good year. We knew that this year, I think, told us a lot about not just where movies are,

but where kind of the brains behind movies are going. And sometimes it's into the sewer and sometimes it's into the heavens. So, you know, we'll continue to track this and I will closely follow kind of the post-Roma reception once the rest of the world gets to see it next week on this show. And now let's take a quick break to hear a word from our sponsor. Support for today's show comes from the new film, If Beale Street Could Talk. If Beale Street Could Talk is, above all else, a love story. From Barry Jenkins, the writer and director of the Oscar-winning Moonlight, comes a soulful drama about the power of love. Based on James Baldwin's acclaimed novel of the same name, this moving story embraces the triumph

of love and family. See if Beale Street could talk in select theaters on December 14th. We have a special guest. His name is Wesley Morris of the New York Times. Hello. Hi. Wesley, thank you for coming here. Thanks for having me. It's an honor. I mean, it's you guys. It's not an honor. Well, it's like a regular occurrence and an honor. It's an honor. I mean, it's you guys. It's not an honor. Well, it's like a regular occurrence and an honor. It's an honor as a listener of the show. It is nice to talk to you, Sean. It is nice to talk to you, Amanda. Likewise.

This is a taped friendship reunion. I'm really glad you're here. You know, we're going to talk about the best performances of the year for a number of reasons. One, this is an Oscars podcast. Two, Wesley in the New York Times, you just wrote about some of your favorite performances of the year. Just generally speaking, I'm curious if you guys think this was a good or great year for movie performances.

No. No. It was okay. Okay. It was okay. I saw some great acting, some of which is not going to get prizes for anything. We should definitely talk about those people too.

Yeah. It wasn't a year in which there were there was even one performance that kind of added something to the way we think about what acting is and can be and usually there's something like that there are things i like they get that that that expand the definition a little bit um i mean for example a person who won't get anything this year, but Daniel Kaluuya in Widows. On my list. I just feel like that guy is an actor. Harry Rollins. He never messed with me.

I never messed with him. We in different games. I always have respect. So why'd he hit me now? I don't know why. Thinks you're setting your sights on something high. You're being sloppy. And I think he can do anything.

I've heard stories from people telling me every time I go on this Daniel Kaluuya rant, well, he's not as hungry as you think he is. He wants to be doing other things. I'm like, okay, that's probably true. What does that mean? It means that maybe he wants to make his own movie. Maybe he'd like to write a book. Maybe he likes staying at home and taking care of his cat. I don't know.

Okay. But there's always some weird veil. Like, he doesn't work as hard as Jake Gyllenhaal. I'm like, well, I'm sorry. He probably isn't even getting Jake Gyllenhaal parts. Can we check your... Whatever. I'm now going on a rant about a person who I won't even name.

And who does know what he's talking about but i just feel like gennaker lee has made three movies that we're aware of at this point this was a great this is a great follow-up to get out too i mean it's a completely different completely different part evil son of a bitch and he's so terrorizing and uh it's just a great great performance right and this person the person who was telling me this by the way wasn't casting aspersions on daniel kaluuya he was just trying to like calm my i think daniel kaluuya is the best actor in the world yeah uh enthusiasm because we really don't know and it's funny because he was such a non-entity in black panther and I wonder, I mean, obviously it's not a very good part. I mean, it's not a part that lets you do a lot.

That's true. But you watch him in Widows and you're just like, just the way he slouches in the chair and looks at, what is that actress's name? Who I'm now not going to, the woman who plays Colin Farrell's girlfriend slash campaign manager. I don't know her name. She's been in a couple other things.

And the way he looks at her in that chair, I covered my chest. The lasting image for me is him waving at the funeral from far away, standing next to Brian Tyree. Very ominous wave of like, I see you and I can get you anytime I need to. Anyway, that was a performance that I saw that I was just like, okay,

I'm learning something new about this actor and I'm also learning something about the way a particular actor's entire mannerism and physical state, his body chemistry can change from one part to the next part. Like he didn't, without any tricks, right? Like he looks like the exact same guy, but is a totally, totally, totally different person.

One thing that's held against him, I think in Black Panther 2 is, just having now rewatched it a couple of times, I don't really understand that character. And I feel like that's one of the only kind of flaws of that movie is there's that character just kind of turns on Chadwick Boseman's character. And you're like, what?

I thought they were boys. Like, why is this? There's like an illogical aspect to that. But that turn in every movie where a character like that does, that never makes any sense. And you know, it's just like a boomerang and he'll be back.

You're just like, okay, he, he also, I think, and I think he's acting the turn. He's acting the second turn, the return, not the heel turn. Right, right.

Well, the second turn is also the only really great moment that he gets when he's standing off on the battlefield and is like, you would do that to me, my love, which has been kind of memed into Infinity now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's the only thing that he gets to do in the movie, I would say. So I understand why you're playing Q. He does get to wear

those clothes, though, and he looks really good in them. I'm just going to say that. You went into full NPR voice there, just so you know. What else about Widows? You know, there was

there's some anxiety post Golden Globes, whatever that means, about Widows not being recognized. And of course, some box office lack of success. A handful of times

we've talked about it on this show, Amanda, and of success a handful of times we've talked about it on this show amanda and there are a lot of performances that i think we thought were going to get some shine viola davis in particular i think people thought was relevant in the best actress race that's the best acting she's done in a movie right it's so good she's so good in this movie my husband left me the plans for his next job. All I need is a crew to pull it off. Why should we trust you anyway? Because I'm the only one standing between you and a bullet in your head.

Anyway, go on. I think we had Cynthia Erivo and the EGOT conversation. We were like, oh, this is going to happen. That's gone. That's gone. Yeah, Elizabeth Debicki. I mean, I don't know what. I mean, now I know many, many people who do not like this movie. And I'm sure you guys have met them too.

I've seen them on the internet. I don't really understand them. No one has said it to my face. Oh. Yeah. Well, I can give you some names. Okay. Thank you.

Some of them are people you know. When we're done, I will hook you up. Okay. But no, the complaint, there's lots of different complaints and they go they they there's a gamut right the gamut includes everything from it doesn't understand chicago to this plot makes absolutely no sense and i understand both those things but i'm a sucker for a movie that gives me somewhere between 10 and 40% more than I

expected to get from it. And this movie gives me about 41% more than I thought I was going to get. Yeah, I mean, the other complaint that we heard from people, too, was that it's just not, I think it's just people are like, this isn't enough heat. The efficiency of the heist isn't

cool enough, and so I couldn't connect with it enough. like the efficiency of the heist isn't cool enough. And so I couldn't connect with it enough. I think in some ways that's a very masculine concern. And people not getting enough out of that. And I think that kind of the low-key clumsiness of the heist itself is part of the insightfulness of the movie. That's kind of what makes the movie interesting in some ways. But people just want De Niro and Val Kilmer looking slick. know this is is that really I think so I mean some boys yes but I know I'm not saying the women I know a few women who've seen this movie and are also like well I I both

wanted more of the women I didn't care about all the men but there's a real physics to this right where like in order for the heist it's not like Ocean's 8 where there's a kind of fantastical ideology at work in that movie having women like you know you take George Clooney's rib and you create Sandra Bullock right like this

to me is a crime a heist of real necessity and there's something about like, and people are like, I don't understand Viola Davis. She works for the teacher's union. What a, that's a dumb,

what a dumb, that doesn't make any sense to me. We never see her teacher unioning. Um, but I think that doesn't sound like a good scene. Yeah. Right. Viola Davis being a teacher's union rep.

I think that there's another half hour of this movie where maybe you do see her go to her job sure but i also i also i have a really i have a question about this movie and not a lot of people have brought this up although the the friend who wanted more of the women also had a problem with with the i mean what what is maybe a spoiler i don't know. About the sun. Right. And I actually think that the apartment they live in, this is my, Gillian Flynn and Steve McQueen can flush me down the toilet when after I offer it. But I think the apartment they live in, which is really nice. And, you know, it's in a building. I know exactly where in Chicago that is. And it is a nice building. I know exactly where in Chicago that is, and it is a nice building. I think that

they live in that apartment not from crime, but from the city settling a lawsuit. I actually think that that got dealt with and it afforded them that place. I don't think that Liam Neeson character is living there based on the iffy

business of crime, because that just wouldn't make sense to me, but a settlement would. Do you think the movie would be stronger, more powerful if that were clarified to audiences? I think it would kind of derail the other energy, right? It already feels like that flashback is a tangent. But you have that great scene.

One of the best scenes in the movie, I think, is when Brian Tyree Henry visits her in the apartment and he's sort of menacing her throughout the apartment. And you can sense she's almost trying to communicate like, I'm not rich. This isn't my life. What you think I have, I don't have. And there's obviously some depth to that whole concept

that she's trying to convey. But if they had made it more clear, really, that that was a nouveau riche because of a tragedy, that would maybe have been more powerful. I mean, this is what I think happened. I don't think that that is, that is dirty money. It's, well, it's, it's a different, it's a morally different kind of dirty money. And I also think that what she's acting in this movie is so much deeper than, I think this is a woman who has no money. She never had any money. And maybe they never had any money.

We don't know how they met. And I think that the money they have is not from, like, they keep saying, you know, I don't, you know, I don't, I don't know anything about my husband's business. And they keep, they keep saying she's lying. Of course she does. we never know that but I think that the thing that she's playing in this movie has everything to do with like being poor and having lost a child it has nothing to do

with I mean she does take that there is something comical about and the clothes when she walks into the garage and she's got that like $4,000 Diane von furstenberg pantsuit on and you're just like yeah this is a woman who really does not want to give this up yeah she will never wear jersey again and i i just feel like she's acting so this is like just the richest part and richest movie part i think she's ever had and she has so many choices that she gets to make and she makes them i feel like

we could do a tic-tac-toe board with all of the performances in the movie i think both the women and the men there's a lot there are literally nine serious speaking parts in this movie it's a shame we both really liked it a lot it sounds like you really took a lot away from it, too. Let's talk about something else. Amanda, what's a performance you want to spotlight? Well, to segue off Widows, we got to talk about Brian Tyree Henry, which we talked a little bit about last week. And this is it's really three performances for one because there is Widows, which is probably the least impressive of his three while also being dynamite. The most expected I guess is maybe the way to put it. He doesn't do anything that you couldn't imagine him doing.

Well he threatens a dog but you know. I do love the construction of that character though. Him running for the alderman. That is a very precise smart positioning of a guy like that. This movie is smart. It really is. There's a lot to talk about. He was also in Atlanta great show

which is a television show but is fantastic and he is the soul of the show he's giving the best performance on TV I would say he really is

I would agree and he just steals Beale Street if Beale Street could talk which he's in it for I would say

12 minutes is that the run time 12 very deep minutes. The movie basically stops and begins to revolve around him for those 12 minutes. Yes. And it's astonishing and heartbreaking. And he does his acting, and I kind of learned the kind of acting that I really like this year, which is not outwardly demonstrative.

It's the type of people who can just kind of make the mood or the color in the room shift just by existing. And he can do that. He can just shift his eyes. I mean, he can make a face when you need it, but he has such a power over the energy in a room. It's astonishing astonishing and he did not get nominated for golden globe so i don't we let's just not even talk about those 88 people it's 88 people there we go sorry i'm done um i think that he is okay so there's maybe like five people who i think are just inarguably exciting would watch them kind of do anything because they're just really surprising. And he is one of those people.

I mean, I've seen him on stage. I've seen him. He was incredible in Lobby Hero. Right. Of the performances he's given in the last 365 days that we've seen, that for me is the best because he did more than he maybe even had to do for that part. I also think that Chris Evans is really good in that play. And for those of you who don't know what we're talking about, it's a Kenneth Lonergan play that was restaged on Broadway earlier this year.

Chris Evans, Michael Cera, Brian Tyree Henry, Bill Powley was a pretty great cast. Yeah. Yeah. He, but he was far and away the,

the strongest member of that cast but they everybody well three of those people were really good um she just had this accent i couldn't get past her bad accent she she she really gave it everything she had but this is a british woman playing an american cop and i'm sorry it just i'm fond of her, but okay. Me too! But I'm sitting there watching these people be utterly natural and this person get very close

but not be able to convince me she was that person. We should do a Michael Serapot at some point too, although he wasn't really in any movies this year, but his career has become very interesting to me.

Yes, he's now a very good stage actor. Anyway, Brian Tyree Henry is one of those people another person i would say who who really is also like changing or like like bringing back a kind of acting because i think that brian tyree henry is interesting because he'll never have to change a lot to change the properties of a room in the way we were talking about Daniel Kaluuya. And the idea that those guys are brothers

is so funny to me because they make that work. I believed that brotherhood, if they really were biological brothers. Jetem. That's the best name. That's Daniel Kaluuya's character's name in Widows.

Jetem. Oh my God. Doesn't Colin Farrell reply, I love you too? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a great line. Lucas Hedges. Jiren,

tell me the truth. That's all. I think about men. I don't know why. And I'm so sorry. Is, I love as much as I love Brian Tyree Henry

and Daniel Kaleas. Wow. Yeah, let's talk about it. I'm interested to talk about it. This is good. I would say, personally, I thought both Boy Erased and Ben Is Back were not exactly the movies that I wanted them to be. No.

Though I do think that he is extremely compelling in both movies. And there are some actors, and I feel like you guys especially know what it's like when somebody is at the center of a movie and the performance is strong enough that it doesn't matter that the movie doesn't work as much as you want it to. I don't know if he really fully clinches it. No. Those two movies. No. But though I feel I feel strongly towards him just like you do.

But my. Well, how do you feel? Well, I was going to say I recently very recently watched Ben is Back. And what he and Julia Roberts are doing together is for me that kind of that special thing at the center of a movie that doesn't totally work. And especially the second half when they're just kind of in the car. And I think there is something about Lucas Hedges

that brings out that performance in Julia Roberts. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. And she's talked a little bit about it. She's in interviews. She's been like, like well he looks like he looks like my kids he's like the lost motor child

but the lost motor child is also a great film I'd like to see but I do think when they're in the house in Ben is Back and

the anxiety and the nerves it comes from a connection between the two of them that's pretty special so I think

that the the thing you're identifying though about what so the hesitation if you if you're listening and you hear us not if there's a if there's something holding us back it's not Shawn Mendes if there's something holding us back about Lucas Hedges in these two movies, it's that the movies, it's that he hasn't, we've seen him in movies where the part is his part, right? Like you see him in Manchester by the Sea and that's a thing that he does that he can do very well,

which is occupy a character that has a lot of writing to it and not a situation, right? He's not acting having lost a parent in that movie necessarily because he's got this character has been given this really rich life and has all these other things to pursue and all these things to connect to and he gets to play all the connections right ben is back and boy erased are problem movies and he isn't a problem actor. He's,

I mean, he is a problem. He can, I mean, you give, every character has a problem, but this is an issue. He's taken parts though

where there are problems. In Three Billboards, he is a problem kid. He's so good in that though. In Lady Bird, he's a problem kid. And that's not to say that there's anything wrong

with his character, but the character is dealing with a kind of a pain or an anxiety or something that the rest of society deems as unacceptable. And a kind of a pain or an anxiety or something that the rest of society deems as unacceptable. And a lot of his roles are like this. Like, I kind of want to see him in a slapstick movie, an action movie, something that is just different from these shades. Oh, but see, I, I like, see the thing that I was going to person,

I was going to compare him to, and I can't believe I'm doing this because I didn't think much of it at the time, but I'm now nostalgic for it in a way because it doesn't exist anymore which is jeff daniels like when jeff daniels was in every other movie there was never a lot to the people he was playing and those characters were put in situations where they had to like the actor had to figure out what to do with the part because the script really wouldn't tell you. They're kind of blank leading man-ish kind of roles. But Lucas Hedges, I mean, I'm thinking about him in Lady Bird.

And I mean, Lucas Hedges has an advantage in that a lot of the good parts that he's had have been existential sort of identity problems in some way. And like the thing that he gets to act in Three Billboards, which is rage at his mother the francis mcdormand character is is an interesting wrinkle in this in in that movie which three the less said the better right we don't have to re-indicate that nonsense i i just find him i

find the properties that he brings to a part really exciting, even in these two movies, which I mean, I think Julia Roberts is the surprise of Ben is back in terms of like how much gets brought out of her that I had never seen before. And you know, she is my favorite movie star of all time. Part of the reason I wanted to have this conversation with you is I knew that Julia would come up. But I think that he... I just can't wait to see the movies, if we still have them in five years,

figure out what to do with this guy. Because I think he's really good and he can't do anything. But I think that good filmmakers will figure out things to do with him. Like Trey, it were Schultz. I think he's in the next Trey, it were Schultz movies. That guy can direct actors and he can write.

So he'll have something to play. Presumably. There's an interesting thing happening with award season in him right now too, which is that he's in a play, another Kenneth Lonergan play. He's really good. The Waverly gallery. I'm seeing it next week. Very excited. that he's in a play, another Kenneth Lonergan play. He's really good. The Waverly Gallery. I'm seeing it next week. Very excited. And he's not doing the campaign thing. So he's not out there kissing the babies and shaking the hands because he's doing a part

on Broadway. And, you know, it's, it's an interesting choice. It's like evidence of a person who really wants to act. He wants to be an actor. And so hopefully he's not going to do, I don't know some bad DC movie in the future he's going to use the coin or play Picasso

do you know what I mean like something obvious and like dull he's obviously he's looking for he's looking for depth and complexity

in the characters he's playing I just I would be curious to see him in a in a part that isn't bound by his character's problem

right you know what i mean yeah but but but i think that these but boy boy raised in ben is back are just they're not great versions of that problem whereas i think ladybird is a great part for for like for him and there's a surprise there like that character surprised me. And the performance by extension surprised me. Like I also think that's a really good Timothee Chalamet part. I completely agree.

I mean, I don't know that there, I feel like Greta Gerwig should just write for those two actors because I think she understands. Isn't Chalamet coming back for Little Women? Isn't that happening? Yes. Yeah.

Okay. So that character kind of already exists that happening? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So that character kind of already exists, but. Right. Yeah. Okay. Let's talk about somebody else. I feel like I could just spin a wheel and say a name. What about Steven Yeun?

Can we talk about him a little bit? Yes. Oh, sure. I don't know what you guys think about the movie Burning. I really like it. I do too. Have you seen it, Amanda? I have. Okay, you did see a little more.

Oh, speak. No, you did see a little more. Oh, speak. No, I think Burning is very good. Burning is the movie that surprised me on the year-end list because it's basically on everyone else's top ten year-end list. And I would say that I thought it was very good and I understand why other people connect to it. And it was not on my top 10 list that's okay i don't it's high on mine but i also would understand someone not connecting to it i think it would be hard if you told me you didn't think steven young was good in this movie i was about to say that he is the clear standout yeah oh interesting i mean i mean i think you wrote

about the lead of the movie in the times package and i i kind of want the reason i bring up ste Yeun is because I want to kind of hear you talk about the two of them in relation to each other and why you wrote about Yuin instead of Steven Yeun. Because I had seen him in Sorry to Bother You, where I think he is a movie star in that movie. He's a movie star in both movies. But I think that, I mean, we're talking, I guess a lot of what we're going to be talking about today is is science because like i mean no really i mean people control their bodies like a chemical property that belongs only to this one person that in a given environment can do anything based on what's around it right And there was something about him and burning where his character, I just, that character made sense to me. I understood it. It wasn't, I think once I figured

out what was going on in that movie, he became less interesting to me. And you are in character, who's the protagonist of the film. The film for anybody anybody who doesn't know, is about a sort of lonely, aspiring writer who has nothing to do but overexert his imagination once a woman he had sex with maybe once or twice disappears. Hard to believe critics love this movie, Wesley. All right. Just saying. Okay, Sean Fantasy.

Imagine the type, you know? I said nothing I love it it's very high on my list but you know there's something aspirational inside of this movie and where it takes some of the people writing about it yeah I don't know I see that Lee Chang Dong does not make it quote easy unquote for you and you kind of have to be willing the movie's two and a half hours you have to be willing to sit there with him while he sits there while he literally sits there i think that's one of the good things about it is if if you accept that it is going to move at the pace it has chosen it works really well it's literally called burning i mean it is a slow burn it's it's

all baked into the premise right but in sorry to bother you he's so hot in that movie. But the movie needs him to, like, his being sexy is the thing that he's supposed to do. But it's like maybe the second or third thing that, like, he's not playing sexy in that movie. He's got other priorities as an actor. But there's this other thing that comes out of the friction between, you know, his playing this activist and his playing this player. And the two, the sort of his sort of his being a good person and his being a bad person create this little forest fire of sexiness. And I think that performance is way more interesting to me than what he does in Burning burning which is very smooth and slick and insinuating but increasingly you just realize he's some guy that lives next door to you like he's literally some guy that probably lives next door to you and cut you off on the highway and

not the thing that the protagonist thinks he is he may not be the demonic plotting evil force that potentially he is positioned as. Right. But we don't know. We don't know. We don't know. We never totally get clarity on that. Right, right, right.

What's next? Let's do Yalitza Aparicio. Okay. Let's do it. That's really up there for me. She got snubbed. We didn't talk about her snubbing at the Golden Globes,

whatever that means, snubbing. Yes, but the Golden Globes whole relationship to Roma is so complicated that I'm not. But let's just factor out the Roman-ness of of why she didn't get nominated yeah and talk about this they're called the hollywood foreign press this is a mexican woman giving one of the best performances of the year there are no let, let me be clear about whether this is true what I'm about to say. Are there any non-British or American citizens

nominated for Golden Globe this year? It doesn't matter. The answer has got to be zero to one, right? I don't believe so. I just don't even feel, how could they not do her a solid by pure like visa standards right like just you are

one of us but they're so they just I don't know they're Hollywood obsessed they don't want to their emphasis on the first word not the foreign you know not even the you're going to skip the press part okay

just don't put it out there I mean regardless of how we feel they are certainly an association of some kind and i think we're reluctant to be associated with them because they do things like not recognize elita apparicio which is you know it's it's one of those kind of weirdly classic ingenue performances even though it's not a typical ingenue role. It's like a person with an incredible real life story who found herself in this movie, which is an extraordinary movie. And, you know, if she's not nominated for an Oscar, it's going to be awfully strange to me. I can explain it. I can explain why they won't nominate her. I mean, the Academy does this weird thing every year, right? Like, not every year, but many years,

there is somebody in the mix who's never acted before, and you're kind of like, huh, didn't see Catalina Sandino Moreno coming. Yes. This is a surprise. It's good on them. Or... Kevengene Wallace.

Kevengene Wallace or Keisha Castle-Hughes. Yes. There's all... Mariel Hemingway way back when. Yeah. People who you're just kind of surprised because- Anna Paquin. Anna Paquin, Barkhad Abdi.

Yeah. Or Adriana Baratza, Rinko Kikuchi. I mean, this is like, we could play this game all day. There are people in these movies- They all have something in common. They're supporting actors? No, they're not American. Well, she's not American either.

I know, that's what's so interesting about it. That's why i think i'd be shocked if she's not nominated and you know we could probably talk a little bit down the line about why they keep doing that with actors who are not native english speakers and there's something kind of complicated there i mean convention day wallace and keisha castle hughes are but is it she's australia uh new zealand i believe okay regardless keisha castle hughes. I could be wrong too. It's just one of those funny things where for some reason they're valorized in the same way that there's something held against them. Like those people almost never win.

They never win. But they're always nominated and it feels like a little bit of a pat on the head. So it's a bit of a conundrum. We're not really talking about her performance. We're talking about the Jerry Varey. Right, but we want to set up. I'm explaining why she probably, why but i also think that actors nominated actors for the oscars and i i wonder

especially in the best actress field if enough actors given who else the app the options are are gonna think that she quote did enough unquote to warrant a nomination now let's just talk about why the hell she does because she does i agree um first of all and this is kind of an underrated value when it comes to movie acting but it's the number one most important thing i got lost in her i was fascinated by what she was thinking and that I don't know is not a matter of her being opaque as an actor. It's the sort of entire moral project of the movie, which is this woman has an inner life that the people around her aren't privy to. And it's partially because they don't ask or care. They don't seem to understand.

Right. And partially because she herself is a private person and watching her do her job is in many ways getting to know her. The act of, I always think about people who play service parts and it's a little bit like people who play athletes. You have to learn how to be

physically fluid and conversant physically conversant if that's possible in the job that you have to do like you have to learn how to play basketball or shoot a gun or mop or sweep there's something about the she knows how to do her, like, like Cleo, the woman she's playing is good at her job. And she gets pleasure, not from the job itself, but from being good at it. And she connects with people around her. She's not a robot. Yeah. It's not just that she takes the wash wash basin to the roof of the building it's that

the children in the movie love her and have a physical and emotional connection to her because of how good she is right that being her job right obviously she also cares for them but that's part of the job but she cares for everybody she has this great relationship with the other with the other housekeeper um and they have a bond that belongs only to them um then she meets this man and they have a connection i don't know i'm gonna start crying just thinking about because a lot of it is things happening to her too a lot of the movie is her not even reacting to things but like withstanding them yes experiencing them and enduring right right right yeah i think the point that you made about um the connection that she makes clearer between

every other actor on that screen at some point is really phenomenal and is the example you were talking about it's not capital a acting it's not like giving a soliloquy or gaining 100 pounds or jumping out of a plane though or jumping out of a plane though respect jumping out of a plane and we'll come back to that but um who jumped out of a plane tom cruise your boy tom cruise oh oh oh oh okay all right hold the thought yeah yeah i you know i'm just saying there are different ways to act and i think the emotional kind of ties that she effortlessly makes plain is astonishing. And not every actor can do that.

And it's real acting. I love the connection that she draws, the kind of contrast she draws between Marina de Tavira, too, who plays sort of the matriarch of the family in the movie. She's also really, really, really good. Excellent actress. And she's very sort of high strung and tense because of everything that's happening to her in her life and the way that you can see her kind of managing around

her own feelings and then relying on Cleo to kind of like do the dirty work in some cases of things that she just can't really cope with is amazing

I mean they really bring out something great in each other I had never seen either one of them before obviously this is the first movie Yelita's ever made it's just a crazy good performance

I'm glad we talked about it I just want to good performance I'm glad we talked I'm glad we talked about it I just want to say that they're both fantastic and I hope more things that are good

happen to both of them but I think that I mean with the people who give out more prizes is what I'm saying sure they'll probably get

to act again too would be my guess yes they'll probably get to act again too although but the other thing with these with that list of people we just named, what happened to those people?

Basically nothing. Almost every single person, Catalina Sandino Moreno still works, but not nearly as much as I would like her to. Covengine Wallace was Annie, right? Yes. And then nothing? As far as I know. Yeah.

In some ways, maybe she shouldn't be nominated. Maybe she should be spared from this process to keep working. Listen, you and I have had this fight about Covengine

and how people were mad at me because I don't like that performance and I really don't like the movie. I'm really don't. I don't like the movie. I'm not into that movie either. Yeah. And people were mad at me because I didn't think she should have nominated. And, like, I got it on two fronts. Like, how dare you say this about a young black girl?

Like, okay. Sorry. And how dare you say this about Covengine? And they couldn't even pronounce her name. And I had to tell them. You know, it's Covengine and they couldn't even pronounce her name and I had to tell them it's you know it's Covengine I just feel like if you're gonna enter this girl into this contest and you're gonna

push her out there the way you did I am free to practice my job on her and literally just say I don't, I prefer someone else to win best actress. Like, that's it.

I'm not like, I hope she, I have nothing bad to say about her in general. But I mean, I have to be able to like talk about

her performance because she gave one. Yeah. I mean, you know, Yulita Aparicio is 24, I believe, not 11. It's a little bit harder when it's a really young person who is put in the spotlight like this. And then, you know, Yulita Aparicio is 24, I believe, not 11. It's a little bit harder when it's a really young person who is put in the spotlight like this.

And then, you know, she became, to some people, like a mascot. You know, the way they would treat her on the red carpet and the way that she was positioned by handlers or interviewers. You mean Kevengene Wallace? Yeah, that was just kind of a gross thing that was happening to her. The apparatus was not cool to her, I would say. Let's talk about something cool. You want to talk about Tom Cruise and Mission Impossible Fallout? Let's do it. Yes. Benji, do you copy? We copy. Go. Change of plan. I'm blown. Need extraction. We're on our way.

So you talked about science, and I think that there's a lot of science and chemistry happening with whatever it is that Tom Cruise is doing in this movie. I wouldn't say that it is necessarily markedly different from the great physical Tom Cruise performances. But for whatever reason, I have been fully hooked, lined, and sunk by the sort of narrativizing of, holy shit, look at all this stuff Tom Cruise did for this movie. Like, I'm just in on it now. Like, just show me all the videos of him training to be a helicopter pilot.

Show me all the stuff of him on the motorcycle going around the Eiffel Tower. Show me him jumping, doing the halo jump out of a plane. Like, all of it. Just feed it to me. I'm into it. I accept it.

I also am like, this is also a version of acting. That sounds stupid, but it is a huge part of training to do your role as an actor. So he's amazing at all that stuff. Plus he's still Tom Cruise. Yes. So he's doing Tom Cruise stuff with Rebecca Ferguson in a movie that like wouldn't work if it wasn't him doing that stuff. Shout out to Tom Cruise. I agree. I've said this before. We give awards for people gaining weight and losing weight and learning how to play the piano and learning how to play the guitar, including Bradley Cooper, who I'd like to talk about.

But, you know, as you said, those are all skills that people train and learn how to do. And so is jumping out of a plane. I'm with you for all of this. One hundred percent. I do want to say that that you're set up for Let Us All Now Praise Tom Cruise, which I'm going to bow down in one second. But I do worry about, I mean, you're right. All of those things do constitute acting. I just don't want to know that you did them. See, I don't care at this point. It's like the cat's out of the bag with Tom Cruise.

But does that apply to people like Christianian bale and and jake gyllenhaal and any other michael b george anybody who like where part of the thing that is the part of the reason you're going to see this performance is seeing some kind of physical transformation it hasn't been held against daniel day lewis you know we hear that all the time about the becoming a cobbler for two years in order to perform in this role. I guess, but he's so good, it doesn't even matter. But I also don't want to know. I don't want to know. I will say that Tom Cruise has turned the

here are all the things I did in order to play this role into art. Like, he's not just, you know, Christian Bale. No, but yes. Being like, ah, I gained some weight and it was hard. That is a beautiful point, yes. You are getting behind the scenes feature. I mean, it's weird through the looking glass half the time.

We need to talk about the video that was recently released, which was Tom Cruise and the Mission Impossible Fallout director, Christopher McQuarrie, teaching you how to turn off the motion smoothing settings on your television. Have you seen this video, Wesley? I'm about to fall out of my chair. Let's run a little clip of that. Yeah, can we watch it?

Can I show it to you? We're very proud to present Mission Impossible Fallout, and we want you to enjoy it to the fullest possible effect, just as you would in a theater. To that end, we'd like a moment of your time to talk to you about video interpolation. Video interpolation, or motion smoothing, is a digital effect on most high-definition televisions and is intended to reduce motion blur in sporting events and other high definition programming. The unfortunate side effect is that it makes most movies look like they were shot on high speed video rather than film.

This is sometimes referred to as the soap opera effect. Listen, not everyone can make a video that weird. Not everyone can make a behind the scenes video that I need to stop a podcast and we're going to make sure Wesley has seen it. And that is part of the art of Tom Cruise. That is why Tom Cruise is not Christian Bale, is not Jake Gyllenhaal, is not the other people. It's not only that, though. It's not only that, but it's part of it. When he gets to work, he works.

He works on all the levels listen how do you feel about the heat between him and henry cavill you in i am it's very difficult to watch that um mostly because and i'm saying this as a person who knows what's about to happen to Tumblr very soon it's just too much you know people talk about chemistry dying in the movies it still counts if it's by accident it's true it really does there's something happening between them

and the movies could never really there's so much there's so much man to man, like great chemistry that, you know, people that you don't want to think about being with each other. And then people you do want to think about being with each other. I always want to think that Charles Grodin and Robert De Niro, like lived happily ever

after. That's nice. You know, I mean, when it's by accident, when the movie doesn't even need it to be that way, but there's something about the, the, the properties changing when these two people get together and listen,

Henry Cavill is no Tom Cruise, but Tom Cruise with all due respect to the God, Tom Cruise is no Henry Cavill. So, so when they get together, I just, I,

he really, Henry Cavill, Henry Cavill came alive in this movie. Oh, yeah. Yeah, something happened. He was like, super lunk.

It was really, really, tall in the mustache. His, his dream came true is what fucking happened he couldn't believe the thing that like he like i don't know what lucas hedges felt about working with julia roberts but i bet you there was like three percent of him that was like making a movie with julia roberts oh my god he probably feels a way about working with Elaine May on Broadway right now too, but

I'm just saying that Henry Cavill was probably like, I started stopping eating and just taking exercise pills to work with you, Tom Cruise. I fixed my teeth for the first time because of you, Tom Cruise.

I can't believe I'm in a movie with you. True love awaits. Anyway. Who else should we talk about? Regina Hall. Okay, girl. Support the girls.

Did they just knock out my cable? Hey! Hello? I'm in the vent. What are you doing in the vent? You losing your mind? Yes. We should support this girl it's a horrible pun but

how many times are we going to get to make it because who knows what's going to happen this is my favorite performance that anybody gave last year in a movie Regina Hall in Support the Girls by Andrew Budralski who is like the best American filmmaker nobody has ever heard of. He is making movies that we used to get every week

and like light comedies, like light comedies with a movie star and a situation. And the solution to the problem is both screenwriting and the movie stars, movie starness. You talked to Bill when Burt Reynolds died. And I feel like Burt Reynolds and Goldie Hawn used to make movies like this all the time. All the time. And the prime time for this movie was the 19, like late 70s to like early 90s.

I think House Sitter pretty much began to kill the genre, that Goldie Hawn, Steve Martin movie, which was too high concept to be worth going to see. Regina Hall has about 35 things to do in this movie, all of them very small, but very important to the plot of the film. She's basically running a booby bar like Hooters in Texas. I believe it's called Double Whammies. Double Whammies, it is true. And she basically is just like doing scheduling and trying to make sure that there's like a childcare for one of her waitresses. And the cable is out. She's got to figure out how to

get the cable back on before some big fight that happens at 6 p.m. later that day. But there's so much wonder in this performance. She manages the stress with this woman's natural personality, and the writing is so good that the farther out the movie goes, the more you realize this woman's life is also kind of a mess. And she too, while being professional and good at her job, also might just be a weirdo as a person in some ways. And we don't exactly know how weird, but she's managing all of these contradictions in her work life that affect, you know, I'm a black woman managing a place that doesn't want to have more than one black girl working at a time. And I have to remember that that's a rule it's just i don't know this that performance

brought me so much happiness partially because i love regina hall and i've loved her for a long time but also because this is what happens when you get a director who who seems to like his star and can let her do what he knows she's capable of. And she exceeds any expectation you'd ever have of, of Regina halls or Gina Holness. She's just so good in this movie. It's a great performance. It's also a low key, very good supporting cast.

Oh yeah. I love Haley Lou Richardson so much. I also have Haley richardson written down jungle pussy and jungle pussy is also the two of them are really hale is what she's known as in this in this film but she's the performer jungle pussy yes um sorry hayley lou though i got she's that's a that's a famous person that's a person that is going to be a thing maybe maybe next year maybe 2020 she's really good this was the second time this year that I've finished a movie because I

only saw Columbus this year. But the second time that I finished a movie, I've been like, who was that? And the answer was Hayley Lou Richardson. Amazing. And the thing that you were saying earlier about changing so dramatically from role to role. I mean, she still has kind of a effervescence and

you want to watch her, you want to be around her, but I was surprised. I didn't know it was the same actress. She's amazing. Yeah, Regina Hall, Hayley Lou Richardson. I like them both. Regina Hall, of course, you know, but... We're running low on time. I think we'd be remiss

if we didn't talk about Bradley Cooper. Hey. What? I just want to take another look at you. I've been waiting to talk with Wesley about Bradley Cooper and A Star Is Born for, I think, five months. So this is a big day for me personally dreams do

come true come true bradley cooper and a star is born uh i love it i'm like completely still fully in i saw it a second time i am amazed at the level of arrogance and intensity that it requires to do something like this and yet i'm not bothered by it at all i think it's like actually worthy of this contraption that he built for himself and he obviously has done he's done a lot of these things that we're talking about where he's talked a lot about his vocal coach and copying Sam Elliott's voice growing his hair his mangy beard learning to play the piano writing these songs compelling other people to write songs following Clint Eastwood around like a puppy for 10 years

and asking him how to make movies and yet fucking amazing i love jackson main can i tell you something i said at some point he really likes lynn shelton that's his that's his that's his i don't know if it's his favorite director but that was really where he was going with this. That's what I'll say. Meaning he wanted to do a character piece. Mm-hmm. Yeah. went from like the bottom of my, of my movie going priorities to like damn near, you know, the sky box.

I don't know how he did. I mean, a part of it was just getting the right role. And I don't, I can't remember now. We know we, nobody could ever kind of keep it straight. At least I can't was,

um, limitless. Was that before one of the Oscar nominations? at least I can't was Limitless was that before one of the Oscar nominations was that after Silver Linings Playbook or before it they're all right around

the same time nobody can remember exactly when it was I think Limitless was first because I don't I think that that movie doesn't

really work if you know he really can act right you go to that movie thinking that dude from Wedding Crashers is actually a movie star yeah and this is a this is a throwaway movie a kind of movie they don't

make anymore like they like this that movie came out 10 minutes ago but it already is dead like limitless is a throwaway movie that's not intended to win anybody anything except like another car and he's just enjoying himself in the movie and i was like okay i like you i really like you and i like that you know what you are but then he starts turning into these other people in movies and he isn't just playing bradley cooper he is this unusual 70s style combination of a movie star who can and wants to act and he's just really good at his job this was the turning point for me the trend toward or against toward okay the thing that you said about going from kind of the bottom list of priorities to i will see everything immediately i i'm seeing the mule. I mean, I'm a Eastwood completist, but also Bradley Cooper's in it too. Apparently he's only like two scenes for what it's

worth, but that's okay. Is Pena in two scenes? I think, yeah, I think everybody, it's mostly Clint. Okay, fine. Sorry, Amanda. No, it's fine. It was just to say that I was not particularly interested in him even last year. It was hard for me to reconcile the movie star aspects of Bradley Cooper, both on and off screen with performances that, you know, it was one too, one too many David O. Russell movies. And I'm like, okay, you're doing this thing. You need to be serious. And you, once you can really feel that asker thirst on someone, I am kind of like, there's a mixture of anger and desperation in many of his performances that is possibly good for the characters but is i don't need to spend time with

that did you buy it you didn't buy him in joy well that was good but you know he's just kind of it's not a huge part but like he's so delightful in that i don't know. I'm not a big Joy fan. Right. I mean, that's the problem is that Joy itself felt so microwaved. But this was unbelievable. And I think also if I could just echo a point that you made earlier about a different performance. But Bradley Cooper is so hot in this movie. It's like, and the fact that he shot himself to look that way is just, you know, I will be unpacking that in terms of psychoanalysis forever. But there's already a precedent for it.

Her name is Barbra Streisand. And this is, I mean, not to turn this into a Barbra thing, but think about the way we talk about Bradley Cooper having made a movie, a remake, ironically enough, of a Barbra Streisand movie. The way that we talk about how good Bradley Cooper is at directing himself

is exactly the opposite of the way we talk about Barbra Streisand directing herself. And I would say, and I don't know if this is going to sound crazy, but I believe it. I think this is as good a movie as Yentl. I think Yentl is a better movie in a lot of ways, but all of the things that kept Barbra Streisand from getting even anywhere near the acclaim that Bradley Cooper is getting for doing, I would say essentially the same work. And let's

be, let's be, y'all. She also kind of directed A Star Is Born the time she was in it. Yes. It is so depressing to me. That's it. That is just totally a male-female dynamic.

I'm just throwing that into the room. We can resume loving Bradley Cooper. I'm sorry. The comparison that I would make that feels most accurate is Ben Affleck in Argo, where there are scenes to understand why there's like a 25 second shirtless shot of him like in the shower thinking of a plan. Yeah, I remember it. And it's like it's self-love.

It's movie star shit, you know? And if you're a man, you can get away with it a little more easily because you're an auteur. But Amanda, what are you identifying in that the thing

that you can't believe in terms of his mirroring? I mean, when I said I'll be thinking about it in a psychoanalysis sense forever, it's fascinating and I don't think flattering. You know, he is, that movie is a mythology and it's really effective as a movie, but he is definitely building a myth of himself as a celebrity and an important person. And he's, you know, working out some difficult issues and possibly marrying with his own life. And I respect that, but there is also an aspect

of it that's just like, I'm a freaking star and I'm going to build this whole apparatus, as you said, to be this person. And it is egomaniacal and also really alluring at the same time. And I think your point is well made that we only use the word egomaniacal when talking about Barbra Streisand directing herself in that way. But, you know, it's fascinating. I want to do it. I don't know anyone else who would do it. Well, I mean, things like this do happen. It just never, the movie rarely turns out to be good.

It rarely works. That's it. That's it. I think that The Town is a better movie than Argo for one thing. I don't think that's a crazy thing to say. I agree. But I also think that he's directed himself to give a better performance in The Town, Ben Affleck. And I think that there's a simultaneous vanity and lack of

vanity in that performance versus like a Warren Beatty who, you know, really likes to pour it on in terms of, you know, his being a movie star. I don't, but the thing that I think that I find fascinating about what you've identified is the thing that makes him a great movie person, which is that he is simultaneously a hundred percent, a movie star and a hundred percent, an actor. And those things are always in conversation with each other with very little tension. Um, they, they, they make him a 200% performer as opposed to like a 50 50 or like a hundred you know i mean i think that he's always firing even in joy you know like he he is giving you he is now at a state in his career when he can kind of give you everything that he that he's got um if he's committed to it and there's something on the page to give to if If you think you've seen Bradley Cooper acting,

you haven't until you've seen him performing the character Rocket Raccoon. I was going to bring up Guardians of the Galaxy, yeah. The video of him wearing a headset, performing that voice work, that is also in addition to the motion smoothing video, my film of the year. It's the funniest fucking thing I've ever seen.

He really, really cares about getting rocket raccoon right and i respect the hell out of it it made me so uncomfortable that's the part of bradley cooper that i still just recoil from i don't i don't actually have to physically lean away from the computer but no it's so extra it's so you just the thirst it's like he wants it so bad he's a theater kid inside the actor studio guy yes that's very true and when you can when it's made plain i get uncomfortable but what i think is so brilliant about a star is born is that he engages with that act that fact with his theater kidness and makes it work guys wesley has to go so what i want to do is a very quick lightning round you each get one more performance that you want to you want to mention before we

move on here are you ready no i have a whole list i'll let you say two but you can't freeze wesley why don't you go first um this is more work uh than, than Regina Hall had to do, but I still love Regina Hall the most. Number two, um, Zayn Al-Raefa in, in, in Capernaum. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. This little 14 year old boy man is incredible.

The movie is grueling. It is tough. It is, it is unrelenting. It comes out at the end ofueling it is tough it is we haven't talked about capernum on the show unrelenting it comes out at the end of december and it is are you trying to make him the new covengine oh please oh don't even this guy he's i mean natural i mean like it's weird to sort of say that a that a that a movie about the tolls of the Syrian war contain within it the seeds of movie stardom. But this kid is a natural actor and he's also gritty and tough. He's like the before, he's like a flashback before you get to like, you know, Adrian Brody, you know, 40 years later or whatever.

He's great in this movie. The other person I would talk about are, uh, Bill Camp and Carey Mulligan in wildlife. Yeah. Um, a movie that I don't think it died a death. I mean, people saw it.

Um, it'd be nice if more people saw it, but the two of them, they have two scenes together that I think are just really great feats of acting. Paul Dano directed it. He and Zoe Kazan wrote it. And the two of them are really Bill Camp and Carey Mulligan. She's turned a corner, I would say, with that performance because I didn't like her very much

before that. Wow. Okay. I'm ignoring that Wesley said that last thing, but I agree about Wildlife. I love Wildlife. I think the scene, especially the Bill Camp scene where he's talking to the sun and it's just the two of them and he talks about being in the plane. That's just one of the great scenes of the year. I love that part. Okay. Amanda, your turn. Okay. I've picked my two. The first is Lana Condor. Yeah.

Star of To All the Boys I've Loved Before. Does that count? Yes. It's a movie. Oh, Netflix. And I think- We just talked about Yalitza Aparicio. Same deal.

Same studio. We need to have a conversation about we need to have a therapy session for me okay and our changing times okay because you guys seem pretty platform fluid i am i am actually not at all and i every time i try to watch a movie on netflix like outlaw king i wind up spending 200 on amazon because i'm so bored. So I can't watch. I mean, I'm sorry. It's true. Sorry, Netflix. I would say my position on this is evolving and I'm committing to the Netflix experience because they're making good films and that's important. We should have a psychotherapy session. Anyway, let's go back to-

Wait, no, no, no. But here, this segues back because I am very platform fluid when it comes to movies like To All the Boys I've Loved Before and Set It Up because I can just go home and turn on a rom-com or a teen comedy and just it's in my home and I can watch it. And that's great. And these movies are delightful. And I grew up watching movies like this. And they don't make them. They don't put them in theaters. And there is.

Well, they sure don't netflix yeah but i do also think that these are the types of movies that are delightful to watch on like tuesday night when you had to deal with a bunch of shit and then you go home and it's cozy and i agree pleasing it is the perfect marriage of like form and platform so i'm pro and i'm Lana Condor is the star of To All The Boys I Loved Before and I basically am shouting her out because I feel guilty

I didn't put her on my actual performances list which ran last week on The Ringer Noah Centineo is great and has gotten a lot of attention but the movie doesn't work without her

so that's my number one and my number two is Sakura Ando who is from Shoplifters oh yes and she is how do i do this out spoiling too much of shoplifters she is the mom figure in shoplifters and i think the second half of that movie and her performance is just heartbreaking and ding ding ding it has just really stayed with me she's a truly great actress she's been great in other films I think she's been

in other creative films as well she's a regular she's a great actress if you haven't seen Shoplifters go see Shoplifters should I do some

silly ones I mean define silly I really want to shout out Jesse Plemons and Rachel McAdams for all the work they've done in Game Night

that's great which is a movie that I like I would not say that I love it but I like it for probably similar reasons that Amanda is saying to all the boys I've loved before.

I wish there were just more competent studio comedies. The thing about this movie is Jesse Plemons is basically good in everything he does now. He's now one of those people who, if he shows up, you're like, I'm in good hands here. Rachel McAdams is a great comic actress and should not be in True Detective season two.

She should be in Wedding Crashers. She should be in Mean Girls. She should be in mean girls she should be in game night she's so fucking funny in game night can i just say she was really good in disobedience i didn't see like talk about rachel vice states states changing i mean not convincing as an orthodox jew her name is literally mccadams but but very but that's that's the thing that she can do, which is like, I didn't care. I didn't care that I didn't, I should not believe this person in this part.

She made me believe it. And anyway, go on. She's very funny in Game Night. Yeah, there's not much else to say. The moment when she realizes that her husband's arm has been shot through the boat is one of the funniest things I've seen this year in the movies. My other somewhat frivolous,

but one of my favorite performances of the year choice is Anne Hathaway in Ocean's 8. Oh, yes. Yes. And Ocean's 8, I don't think is very good, but I do think that Anne Hathaway is very good. And Anne Hathaway gets a hard time from a lot of people in the press for being a tryhard.

She gets all the press the world from people the world for me from time to time but that's fine yes from you she was wonderful

in Ocean's 8 delightful very very funny I love her so much doing the thing that Julia Roberts did so effectively I think in Ocean's

12 but not necessarily in the same way she put a new spin on self-referentiality and showed that she has a sense of humor about herself. And even in doing that, she still seemed like a tryhard,

but in a good way. Where are you, Anne Hathaway? You're a movie star. Come back. Movie star for us. Please. Movie star for us is the new motto of this podcast. For Wesley Morris and Amanda Dobbins,

I am Sean Fennessy. Thank you for doing this. Thank you.