The Big Picture - The Martin Scorsese Hall of Fame

Episode Date: October 3, 2023

With ‘Killers of the Flower Moon’ just weeks away, Sean, Amanda, and Chris gather to run through the long list of films that Martin Scorsese has made and build a 10-movie Hall of Fame to Marty’s career. Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guest: Chris Ryan Senior Producer: Bobby Wagner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Shop online for super prices and super savings. Try it today and get up to $75 in PC Optimum Points. Visit superstore.ca to get started. I'm Sean Fennessy. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about Marty. It's a major month on The Big Picture. In just a couple of weeks,

we will see Killers of the Flower Moon, the first new film from Martin Scorsese in four years. Chris Ryan is here with us today to talk about Scorsese's work and career and to help us build very daunting, a very daunting task, the Scorsese Hall of Fame. Hi, CR. Hi. I've been traveling the country looking for locations for this Hall of Fame, for this spot. Where would you build it? I think Tulsa's got a lot going for it. They got the Bob Dylan Museum already, the Martin Scorsese Hall of Fame. Also, he's just shot killers in Tulsa.

So we got it all there. That seems like a very odd place for an Italian-American man from New York's Hall of Fame. But you know what? Stranger things have happened. Tough times in Manhattan. I don't know where to put it.

Amanda, let's just cut right to the chase. Martin Scorsese, the man, recently profiled magnificently, I thought, by your husband, Zach. I read it Monday morning like everybody else. Is that true? Yeah. Oh, interesting.

You don't get early peaks at a ZB exclusive? Sometimes Zach asks my husband, Zach Barron, who writes for GQ, he gets really mad when I don't use his name in credit situations. In full? Do you want, like, should we get into middle name? Like, how much do you want to give here? Should we give a social security number?

I don't know a social security number. He profiled Martin Scorsese for GQ. And, yeah, so sometimes, but he profiles a lot of people. And sometimes he'll be like, what lead should I use? And so I get, like, two, two like options put in front of me or we talk like big picture about ideas but uh there was an incident early on where he asked me to look at something and then i like reached for the computer at like the keyboard to start typing and that was like a real hard no bit of an editor sin there which i understand here let me show you how to do it.

Were you reaching for the keyboard to like buy something? No, no, no, no, no. I was like, I was just going to change the dock. And he was like, what do you think you're doing? That's not what I asked you to do. Which, you know what, was really fair in that situation. He did not ask me to do that. And I was like, oh, I'm sorry.

You know, so. Great story. So we had to like to draw the line and I don't get near the keyboard now. Actually, I love the idea that she's like the Carl Bernstein of that relationship. Absolutely. Yeah. Just ripping heaters. I'm just talking shit.

We'll drink whiskey. What now? When he does ask me to do something, he'll often like copy it from it from the original doc into like a different doc. So I don't actually have. Okay. Yeah. But no, I've learned so I don't actually have access. Amanda's safe. Okay, yeah. But, no, I've learned, and I respect his boundaries on that.

But this one, he didn't need me because he had incredible access to Martin Scorsese in New York. My family, Knox and I, were with Zach in New York when he was reporting this, and it was amazing. He would just be like, sorry, I have to go see Martin Scorsese now. It was, like, real, like, Hallmark stuff. And, like, my impression of the piece was, like sorry I have to go see Martin Scorsese now it was like like real like Hallmark stuff and like what my impression of the piece was like I Zach got the experience that I think we all would want to have if we were like in a room talking about Martin Scorsese and he was

this person who knows so much about cinema and has been so like important to the the history but also you know the creation of cinema in our lifetime but um it's also still like a person with like ideas and feelings and searching and you feel that in the art and you feel that in the way that he talks and i like i found it very moving um i thought i thought like unbearably sad really really sad and not in a like pathetic way just in a really a person genuinely taking stock of the end of his life yeah and um i thought very deep and it's funny when i talked to zach about it i was like this this really kind of hit me hard man and he was like you know i didn't feel that way when i was doing it but then that does seem like most people you know and that's

part of the reason why killers of the following feels like a big deal and we're having a conversation like this is we've got 50 plus years of movies and career and life and art to look at, which is just, there's not a lot of people for whom that is the case. And he's still, we won't spoil Killers of the Flower Moon here, but it's not, not a major work. You know what I mean? Like it's, he's still someone contributing deeply to the, to the art form.

I don't know. How do you think about Scorsese at this stage of your life and his? Well, just on that note, I think over the last few years as we've podcasted about movies, we've often talked about how industrious he is. So I was almost taken aback when you were like his first film in four years.

It feels like he's always busy. And perhaps it's also because he's linked with lots of projects. Like, oh, so he's going to make a Jerry Garcia movie or he's going to make The Wager and maybe another movie about Jesus. And now he's kind of like i think i got one more in me you know so really to have that clarity that this is among the last things he'll probably make uh you know and he's so kind of transparent with zach about like the challenges that he's facing

as an aging man with a with like personal issues at home and stuff like that with his wife, you just read the piece. It's just kind of like sad to kind of contemplate the end of it. And one thing that made me think about was how many different phases he's gone through his career that have then been reevaluated. So like in the moment they feel like, Oh, Martin Scorsese,

he's in movie jail or Martin Scorsese. He's the preeminent studio director now. Or now he's kind of like Martin Scorsese and his like late Kurosawa, Bergman. Like this is the best to do it in the last like couple of decades. But he still needs to get big companies to give him a lot of money. Yeah, but he's an old master now. You know what I mean? And he's still he's still able able to get to a place cinematically that really only a few people ever have, I think.

What's the first movie of his that you can remember seeing? This is a hard one for me because my dad, I texted my dad to be like, what's your favorite Martin Scorsese movie? And he said Mean Streets. Oh, interesting. Yeah. But he didn't sit me down at age 10 to watch Mean Streets as he did with the films of Barry Levinson.

I'd love to interrogate what my dad decided. Maybe it was just the diner didn't stick. And so he was like, we'll wait. There's a ceiling here on how poor guys getting into trouble will work on my daughter. So I don't have a memory of watching them at home. I remember my parents seeing Cape Fear and I have a vivid memory of my mother being like Cape Fear is the scariest movie I've ever seen. So I've never seen it.

A very real movie about a young couple with a young daughter. Well. And terror arriving. So I think, I think probably. It was just me repeating the trailer dialogue. That was good. Good job. No movie phone voice, though.

Why don't you just tell me which Cape Fear you want to see? 1961 starring Robert Mitchum or 1991. I'm going to hang under my station wagon for a while. So I think Goodfellas, probably. In college, right? Or The Last Waltz, you know. And I probably did first interact with him through peers, and by peers, I mean young men. It's nice that you think of young men as peers.

I don't think most people would think that about you. I don't really either. Enthusiasts, you know, and movies that were always on. And then I would say probably I, like, did my own, you know, and movies and movies that were always on. And then I would say probably I like did my own, you know, there, no young man was showing me Age of Innocence in college, you know? So I start seeking out the, the films on my own. Okay. What about you, Chris?

Can you remember? I just remember him being a thing in my early life around the house. Like my dad, I, I, you know,, you get these snippets of memories of like, were they watching Raging Bull on video and I walked into the room for a while or they let me see the opera crane shot. But I think the first thing I watched was Color of Money. I think that was the first thing

that was deemed palatable enough for me. And I also remember that being such a huge deal because it was Tom Cruise and Paul Newman. And even I had like an awareness of like the significance of the pairing. And then obviously the movie that kind of mints me and kind of takes over the 90s for me is Goodfellas. Yeah. We talked about this a lot on the Goodfellas pod that we did. But, you know, being from New York, being especially surrounded by like all of my neighbors were all Italian, like just feeling like you're in a kind of milieu where Scorsese is kind of like the

New York Giants or like the New York Post where you're just like, he's just a part of our life and our culture. And everything that he does is at least worth discussion at dinner. Goodfellas is definitely the movie, but I wonder if the first thing that I ever saw that he did was Michael Jackson's bad video. Oh, yeah. And even becoming aware of him and aware of him doing that in a very specific way at that time. I loved Michael Jackson as a kid.

I listened nonstop to those three, the two 80s records and Dangerous. Like, that was just a huge part of my childhood. And there is like, was it like a making of? It was on MTV at the time that they aired about that video which was kind of like some combination of a Scorsese movie and West Side Story kind of like a knife fight in the subway and looking back on that I'm trying to imagine what it would be like it would that be like if Barry Jenkins right now directed an Olivia Rodrigo video you know like what would be the equivalent of that? No, it literally would be if like you were like,

my experience with PTA is through Haim. But Haim is not Michael Jackson. Sure. You know, the most famous musical artist, you know, which is so unusual. Anyway. Strangely enough, I think on that same line, maybe Last Waltz is kind of the first experience

I had with him just because my parents used to listen to it all the time and then would watch it every once in a while, but had no idea it was like a Martin Scorsese movie. Yeah, even though he's in it. Even though you see him interacting with the band and with Robert Robertson. I think his voice is the first voice you hear.

Yeah, yeah, I think that's right. And then I think when we were kind of coming of age into adulthood, he was making a really strong comeback in the public eye. Like in the 90s, certainly Casino is a big movie and Cape Fear was a big hit. But as you said, not a lot of people were showing me Age of Innocence when I was 12 either. Bringing Out the Dead and Kundun were sort of smaller films from him. But then Gangs of New York, The Aviator, The Departed. He just goes to Leo Town.

And then, yeah, he teams up with the biggest movie star. And so then I wonder if maybe right around Gangs of New York, The Aviator, The Departed. He just goes to Leo Town. And then, yeah, he teams up with the biggest movie star. And so then, I wonder if maybe right around Gangs of New York, I was like, I'm going to watch every movie he's ever made. That's probably what I ended up doing in college. And he hasn't gone away. He hasn't taken a break. I mean, that's the other thing is that there's not like a...

What's the longest gap between movies that he's had? Is it possible that it's the four-year gap we've just had between the Irishman and this? But even in those gaps, he's like making Bob Dylan documentaries, and he's doing all this stuff, and he's preserving all of cinema. And even this four-year gap does include COVID and a pause. We have thought this movie was going to be released for like two years. So, you know, he keeps going in a

different world it could have been a 2021 movie and you're right he could have kept going and maybe he would have added one more and i wonder if that's part of what he's reflecting on is sort of like i've been out of the box for four years and i'm not used to that i mean i'm just looking at the just the feature films yeah it's on it's just unbelievable how consistent and how frequently he works um so what do you think like what his movies mean to you So what do you think, like, what do his movies mean to you? And what do you think they mean more broadly? I know that's like the biggest question possible, but I'm curious how you feel about it.

You know, it's interesting in the last, we were talking about his phases. And in the last few years, in addition to, I think him recognizing that he's nearing the end of his career and kind of reflecting on that both in pieces you know in GQ but also like in the movies like if you see the Irishman you know it's not like we're there he's also become an elder statesman of cinema right and there is so much that he does in terms of um preservation and history and advocacy and then also producing

um everything from like the Joanna Hogg movie, you know, the souvenir to Maestro. Yeah, to Maestro. To like lots of, yeah, exactly.

He's just like kind of out there and he has become this person who is like, you know, the friendly Avenger of cinema. Which is like,

Ari Aster's number one supporter. Yeah. Yeah, which is like an amazing thing that he's like your, like, the friendly grandpa but also is like Martin Scorsese and has made all of these movies. So, you know, I think of him and I think of his films, I think with like a new affection in that. That definitely like flavors how I think about all of them because they are pretty much just you know they are movies

about the uh male experience in America and uh just how fucked up that is but I I mean that in the best way I know I think I often describe movies like that it's like boy movies and really alienating and I find them both um the the window through which I understand a lot of the people that I know um and I find I find that they also transcend um just you know like gender essentialism or whatever and they become about a person trying to figure things out and that is another thing that I think is like very moving about his career and his filmography. And the fact that like we maybe only joined in what the 90s or even in like the 2000s, but that we have had 20 years of also watching his career evolve and watching him figure out what it means to be a person and what it means to fail and all of these like essential

questions in his movies like over time and that changes and you don't get that experience with that many master filmmakers like Scorsese so I um I just I'm a big fan what about for you what what what is what does Martin Scorsese mean yeah um I mean as as like just him I think of him as like a not my teacher but a teacher right like he's taught me so much about movie making the history of movies and stuff you know around that and like really kind of awoken awoken me to like the beauty of of filmmaking um a lot of like my like understanding of you know the visual language that we see on screen comes through his films and through his great proselytizing for the art. But he's also this vessel through which I think I understand a lot of the things in my life in a lot of ways.

My relationship to New York is defined by his movies. My understanding of people who are outsiders is defined by Taxi Driver. My understanding of male violence is defined by Raging Bull. Capitalism by Wolf of Wall Street. There's so many of his films that have kind of captured an essence of something, and then you almost make reference to them. You reference the film. The film is the lens through which you view

the thing itself almost, which is pretty singular. I can't think of another filmmaker who has that kind of definitional power for me. I think he became sainted in a way because he found a way to blend

and advocate for what came before him and modernize it in such an exciting way that it felt not like what you could uncharitably describe as like a bunch of gangster movies, but more like a high art form of old genre convention. And so like he's really great at talking about what John Ford does well or what Jean Renoir does well or what Preston Sturges does well or Powell and Pressburger. Powell and Pressburger, a huge one for him. And those are filmmakers who make very beautiful, painterly, elegant stories that are not necessarily not tough, but their films don't feel like Martin Scorsese movies for the most part. Martin scorsese movies are electrifying and fast moving and virtuosic and in your face and the fact that he is really like in conversation with those filmmakers while doing very specifically his own thing like

inventing a kind of modality of movie making is i think what separates him and all the stuff you're saying is right which is that he is like this great grandfather figure but he's also a guy who was like on cocaine yeah 15 years you know making crazy movies with his friends staying up for like 11 days in a row with Robbie Robertson and very open about those things you know and very like um I'm not it's almost like he is you know he's he's a Catholic I thought it was so interesting that he was like I'm kind of back in on faith in Zach's piece. And I'm sure being near to the end of your life

is something that makes you put that way. You know, as a lapsed Catholic, I see a lot of my own experience with God and ideas of like what you owe to the world in his movies, especially those first like five or 10 movies where you're like, he just can't get this out of his head. He can't get out of his head. The idea of the man who's like,

do I go left or do I go right? And if I go left, I'll sin, but I'll be happy. If I go right, I'll be miserable, but I'll be faithful. And the last few movies, he's coming back to it at the end of life. Yeah. And in Fascinating, I mean, it's pretty astounding to have this library of human existence through his eyes um and and and with like the best filmmaking ever and what yeah well one of the things that was so cool about

zach's piece was i i don't think i had heard scorsese talk about how he had been starting to consciously strip his style of a lot of the things that people associate with martin scorsese partially because two or three generations of people have just been consistently ripping them off. It's that part where he's like, I don't watch. He's like, I can recognize when someone is like doing me and I don't need to watch anymore

because there's nothing to learn. Yes. Which I thought was just like an amazing way of putting it. But like when you think about Silence and Irishman, there are beautiful shots, you know, Silence and Irishman, there are beautiful shots. You don't get very many of the push-ins or the impeccably scored moments that you usually associate with him

over the course of his career. The sort of Ronette's drumbeat explosion going on inside of somebody as they walk into a room. Right. Irishman has like a push-in shot when he's talking to the ground, right? Yeah, and I mean,

when we talk about Killers of the Far Moon, he's doing new things in that movie that he has never really done before that I don't know that are necessarily like modernizing the style of cinema, but it's him trying on something new. The same way if you watch Kundun, he'd never really made a movie like that with that kind of patience and that kind of like,

um, gentle remove from the subject matter. A lot of what he does is like right on top of you or thrusting you forward. So if you go through his filmography and we will go through this extremely long filmography, um, you can see someone working hard to figure out a new idea every time,

even if it's not a new physical move with the way he moves the camera around. It's a new emotional or intellectual move or working with a different kind of an actor or a different kind of a story or a new kind of a screenplay. And I think that's one of the other reasons why his career is just so fun to talk about,

so varied. I mean, certainly Taxi Driver and Goodfellas and Casino, these movies, like, really define him to pop culture at large. But if you care about movies,

there's 50-plus films here that are, like, worth watching. I mean, how many people is that true for? Three? Five? Alfred Hitchcock? Like, it's a very, very,

very short list of people who have this much material that is at least worth investigating, even if you don't like it. If you're like, I'm out on, you know, bringing out the dead. That's okay. That's like that. And that, and we'll go through that in this exercise. You have a favorite?

Well, I assume you guys are going to say Goodfellas. Well, we have done, we did a top five like five years ago. And that was very sweet. And you did it with Naaman. And I, cause I looked at the list. And Last Waltz was everyone's number five. And Goodfellas was everyone's number one. And I thought that was really sweet.

Man in America. And Canada. I'm not talking down to you. You guys compared me to like a suicide robot bomber at the beginning of this. Pre-recording. Before we started recording. Yeah. But this is a healing episode.

Okay. Thank you for your generosity. we're all in this together yeah so i'm not i thought that was really great but i like goodfellas is obviously like the essential like i guess if you have to pick one which would be horrifying probably the one he'll be remembered for yeah i think he'll be remembered for a lot which is part of the fun of this exercises but like that's the one so assuming that you guys were going to say goodfellas i i was going gonna say wolf of wall street um i really like wolf of wall street and you know i think a little bit of that

is like it's it's later so i like saw that as an adult i went to a screening in a blizzard in new york uh with zach and had you know had an amazing experience but that to chris's point about it changes it changed the way i watch movies it changes the way I watch uh capitalism it changes the way I you know I think it's Leo's best performance um and there is just something that is a familiar genre I mean we talked about it with like garbage cash but that he is he is reinventing um and it's it stays you. Is it Goodfellas for you? Yeah. You don't have to talk about Goodfellas for 20 minutes nonstop if you don't want to.

It's Goodfellas. Yeah. I think the fun is kind of rediscovering movies of his. I think we've done that through the rewatchables a lot, but like After Hours and Color of Money. And I even, you know, like obviously I have like a huge soft spot for Departed, but it's good fellas. He does have a couple of films that are out and out five-star masterpieces, but it's really weird if you say that's my favorite. You know, if you're like Raging Bull is my favorite movie.

Taxi Driver Bros are like, it's, yeah's it's a front time to be like Taxi Driver is my favorite movie that's a film that defines me yeah that's a really weird thing

not the sickest Raya profile Bobby you've been discovering and rediscovering a lot of Marty's movies you're an Italian American I am yes

what's your favorite Marty oh it's just hands down Goodfellas and that's also the first that's the first one I ever saw that was the one that was like

expressly shown to me. I have a very vivid memory of being 13 years old in my grandmother's house on Long Island. It came on cable. And my uncle was like, you got to come over here. And you got to sit down. And you got to learn a little something about how life works. Was it on TNT? Or did they have curse words?

The raw cut? Yeah. No, there were no curse words. So then when I actually went back and rewatched it, I was like, oh, I missed a good chunk of this, huh? Yeah.

I didn't get to experience a good little bit of this here. But I've watched, you know, I've watched it like 25 times since then and just never have I watched that movie and not discovered something new that I did not notice

the last time to love about it. And like that is that is to me like the essence the essence of why Scorsese is the most fun person to talk and think and experience about for me personally, because it's just so much of what I have seen in my life is being reflected and refracted back to me. But then also in different periods of his career,

he is so interested in introspection in a way that not every filmmaker gets the opportunity to go through periods of his career, he is so interested in introspection in a way that not every filmmaker gets the opportunity to go through periods of time where he's reflecting society, but then also looking back on himself and is like, where have I made some of these choices

in my life that have led me to genuine sadness? To the point about Zach's profile of him, I was reading that and I was like, I'm going to be thinking about my own mortality and I am only 27. So yeah, it's Goodfellas for me. profile of him i was reading that and i was like i i'm gonna be thinking about my own mortality and i am only 27 so i um yeah it's it's good fellas for me i think the other thing that differentiates

him is he does do what bobby's describing which is he does you can feel him reflecting on his own life but it's his movies are entertaining oh yeah there are a lot of great film artists who've made masterpiece works but you wouldn't just be like i want to just reach for that on friday night and just get inside that world again you know you think about it in a different way whether it's an intellectual way or in an emotional way that requires a kind of plugging into the experience scorsese movies like wolf of wall street lots of big ideas but it's a party the whole movie is a fucking party yeah and that's another thing that i think makes him stand out so much yeah well he he has such a love for this like this art form but in a way that feels like what draws us to it and i i don't want to be like

scorsese is one of us because he's not he's like the greatest living film you know american filmmaker for sure and maybe you don't even know that qualifier but he i think he would be a letterboxd bro if if he were of this generation right and then he is letterboxd but then he also like he you feel the enthusiasm he sees that it is a place for fun and for enjoyment as well as like technical achievement beauty and like big ideas you know it's the whole package and i think i guess like we learned to love movies like from 90s studio films but also from martin scorsese yeah one thing that i really picked up from him and you were you were getting at some of this too is you know i've watched so many interviews with him over the years so many and obviously like the biggest tick and i said this to zach before i did it i was like make sure

he doesn't drag you into the rabbit hole of like i'll just name 100 movies at you for an hour because he can do that but i love when he does that because that's what i love to i love to hear creative people talk about the creative things that they love and he was always so good at not differentiating between renoir and a val luton horror movie from 1939 he always i mean my personal ethic for the show, for everything that I think about with movies is these things are equal.

Like B movies matter as much as high art European cinema. And he could point very clearly to what was artistic about something that was made for general audiences to entertain them on a dull Saturday afternoon.

As much as he could say, this is someone who kind of changed the landscape of filmmaking from an emotional and intellectual capacity. I really feel deeply influenced by that as much as the movies that I like. And not everybody's good at talking about what they do. That's the other thing is that because he is such a good talker and because he has this fun kind of encyclopedic, he's kind of like the back of the baseball card guy. When you were were growing up and you were like i could just rattle off this guy's stats and tell you how many rvis he had this year this year this year but he was that for movies but not just the stat head you know it was it was it was everything the other

thing that i want to point out was zach's story that i thought was so interesting was him talking about the academy oh yeah um and how he doesn belong, that that's like a part of the business. More largely LA, but specifically the people who kind of manage the quote-unquote history of Hollywood and who gets to say this was the best and this was not the best.

He obviously has this kind of complicated history with the Academy where he's nominated many, many times, I think nine times for Best Director. It's only won the one time for The Departed, which I love as a movie. I rewatch all the time. But it's funny to think about what he was not awarded for.

Yeah, I mean, the movies he didn't win for is just ridiculous. And how that also is kind of disruptive to my own view of movies, where you and I both grew up, I think, really kind of being fascinated by, interested in, admiring in some ways, the Academy Awards,

and then getting older and just constantly being like what the fuck is this shit show and so for him to just very openly during a campaign season in which he could theoretically be celebrated again for what could be one of his last movies he was like those aren't my people I don't I don't and you know what that's fine it really doesn't matter yeah he's like I'm I'm happier here yeah I really enjoy and I also think that that quintessential new york it's it is it is probably the three of us it is our tempo like it is the the movies move like the movies feel propulsive the movies feel like they are being made for somebody's brain works fast and mouth moves fast and like they like for the most part,

I mean, you know, Irishman couldn't do an age of innocence. They, they aren't all like fast talking, like, you know, uh,

tales of violence. But I really do. I find that like, I am tuned into his frequency. Uh, the Academy thing is interesting. You know, like it's,

it's, it is very possible. Like you could just very much imagine a a real like lifetime achievement it's marty's night kind of night for the oscars and i think a lot of people would really enjoy that but it's he seems like he's being very candid at this point in his life what does he have to lose an oscar who fucking cares right like that's kind of what i loved about that where he was like if i don't win this it doesn't matter or opposite, which is like my strategy is telling you I don't care so that you celebrate me even more,

which is also really smart and maybe even a strategy he's considered. So wonderful piece if you haven't read it. We're going to go through every single movie that he made. Now this is a very complicated exercise. So we're trying to pick 10. We're trying to pick 10 things. Now we did this with David Fincher once upon a time

and actually what turned out to be a two-part episode where we talked about everything that he was responsible for directing. And in the case of Scorsese, that includes music videos, episodes of television, short films, documentaries, and he has made north of 12 documentaries, and feature films, some of which are considered the finest films ever made. Did we put Freedom 90 in the Fincher Hall of Fame? I think we did. Okay. I think we did.

So you're thinking about it because of Supermodels? Yeah. Well, and also just because you mentioned it, but there's a Supermodels documentary on Apple, which is like fine. I enjoy the archival, but David Fincher does show up for two minutes and he is credited.

It's David Fincher, director of Freedom 90. And it was really very special. Among other things. Yeah. Where should we begin? Should we begin in the earliest days of his career? Paul Thomas is the director of High School. He's got a lot of those under his belt

at this point. Marty only has two music videos. Maybe we'll start with the music videos. That's not chronologically where it begins, but I feel safe that we could probably cross these off. Yeah, we just, we have to be practical. Yeah.

We'll actually work in reverse relevant order. So we'll go music videos and then TV and then I think we'll look at the bigger works. Bad. 1987. Important to you.

A gateway drug. A huge, a huge moment of exposure for a lot of people, I think, to Martin Scorsese. Yes. And also to leather gangs in the subway.

I actually maybe think this is not such a good video, personally, but that's okay. Not really one of my favorite Michael Jackson songs either. But it is 87. Though, Your Butt Is Mine is a great first line to the song. It's memorable. It's memorable. It is memorable. It's memorable. It is memorable. This is a point just worth noting that he, I think,

has finally kind of come out of the desert, both figuratively with the industry and also literally with Last Temptation of Christ, which was a very tumultuous period for him. And it's like the precursor to him kind of building up to Goodfellas, I think. He also directs a 1987 music video by his dear friend Robbie Robertson And it's like the precursor to him kind of building up to Goodfellas, I think. He also directs a 1987 music video by his dear friend Robbie Robertson called Somewhere Down the Crazy River, which is perfectly fine.

It's interesting that he didn't do more of this because he might be the preeminent 20th century filmmaker who utilized pop music. He invented them. Yes. He did kind of invent a style of filmmaking that, you know, you were talking about that moment in Zach's piece where he's thinking about people who have been ripping off his visual style. Sure, yes. But his music style is so influential.

I mean, honestly, where you see it most is contemporary television. If you watch TV and you watch the way that they needle drop through TV shows now to get you to feel something is amazing. If you could rename the rewatchables needle drop category after one Scorsese needle drop, what would you pick? And can I start this campaign here?

Because you don't want it to be the slow ride fog hat. No, it's like the Kid Cudi pursuit of happiness. Oh, it's the Kid Cudi pursuit of happiness.

Didn't it used to be the slow ride, the fog hat? Briefly. I don't even know if I know what the Kid Cudi I believe it's from

Project X it is because I asked Bill on a rewatch I was like I'm just gonna need to some explanation I was hoping Project X would come up

on the Martin Scorsese Hall of Fame episode so thank you for that Bill is kind of in a little bit of like a live at Birdland moment with categories where it's just like

the Glenn Close cocaine usage award that was good like the Glenn Close cocaine usage award. That was good though. For Glenn Close. That was funny. Only in this film. I liked that.

If we could rename it Layla probably. I think that's true. I think the Layla needle drop through the final third. And then he kissed me.

Yeah. I think those are the correct choices. There are a couple though. Even in the earliest stages of his career. And maybe this is a way for us to kind of elevate up. Look at you. Just segueing my way to glory.

That was really beautiful. I told you this was a positive vibes episode. So I'm proud of you. Thank you. An old master in your old right. That's right. There's only one thing I do well. And it's jump from conversation topic

to topic 1967 who's that knocking at my door this is of course his debut feature film kind of a student film kind of a

you know very very very indie small movie made with Harvey Keitel who he would go on to make a great many films with but you're right

he does use a lot of music in this movie and in the next couple of movies that come along a lot of pop music and that becomes

kind of his signature where he's taking particularly kind of 50s doo-wop and girl group songs that he heard growing up in the tenements in new york when he was a teenager and plugging them into the emotional center of his male characters like that is really what he does and those songs are often like very emotional and deep about love. And they're used to elevate the unspoken feelings of angsty men. And great idea. Just an incredible idea. Also, maybe this isn't true for you, but I definitely learned about all of those songs and that music from boys who watched Martin Scorsese movies were like, oh, this speaks to my emotional, you know, whatever. And then like,

here, let me play the Redheads for you. And I was like, great. Is Who's That Knocking at My Door? I don't know if you guys have revisited this movie in a while. It's kind of like a, it's like he built the frame of the house. One thing I think that is funny about it

is it's actually funny. It feels a little bit more like Wolf of Wall Street. It's like very kind of loose and kind of jangly. And you can almost feel them improv-ing their way through some of the material. It's not like a fierce, tightly wound Martin Scorsese movie. It's him kind of riffing in a way. Yeah, a lot of his early stuff is really interesting to view in relationship to what comes after. So, I mean, I think like The Big Shave, for instance, is one that like

you can watch. I think it's on YouTube, but like you can check it out. His short film. Yeah. And it's just sort of, it is kind of interesting to watch Martin Scorsese

before he knows he's Martin Scorsese. So there are things that happen in some of these early movies that you're like, it's really like, I think Mean Streets

is where you start using like, I mean, that's where Scorsese-esque kind of starts, you know? Yeah, I think that's probably a good way to just talk quickly about the shorts too. There's a great Criterion edition called Scorsese Shorts that captures the big shave. It's not just you, Murray.

What's a nice girl like you doing in a place like this? Italian American, which is this amazing portrait of his parents. It's really. If you like Martin Scorsese, Essential Viewing. I know you just watched it, right, Bob? Yeah, it's a Bobby favorite. It's so near and dear to my heart. It's really. If you like Martin Scorsese, essential viewing. I know you just watched it, right, Bob? Yeah, it's a Bobby favorite. It's so near and dear to my heart. It's like watching a home video.

So it's just very beautiful. It also features American Boy, a profile of Stephen Prince, who is a kind of a friend of a friend who is kind of an adult guy in New York. And it's this very intimate portrait of him going through the stages of being addicted to drugs

and his relationship to guns. And, you know, you can see a lot of... Super Safdies. Yeah, very Safdies. And a real framework for a lot of these late 70s movies that he is exploring in terms of the tone of it. I don't think that any of the shorts or Who's That Knocking at My Door should be going in. But I do want to strongly recommend them for people. Yeah.

As like lighthouses for what his style becomes. Did Benny Safdie and Ari Aster do like a whole thing about the shorts for Criterion? Didn't they do some, where they talked about like some of their favorite moments in them or like kind of went through them a little bit? That sounds right. They're all worth watching because they're not all,

like the Big Shave is really kind of like a horror comedy. You know, it's like an experiment. It almost feels like a Jim Henson movie or something, you know, where it's trying to figure out like an idea with a visual style. And it doesn't really feel like a lot of his movies, maybe Cape Fear a little bit, actually. A little bit. But it's always interesting when you have the evidence

of someone trying to figure something out in real time. The source code. In 1972, he makes a feature film that is funded by Roger Corman's company called Boxcar Bertha. It's like his first for hire thing. This is five full years after he has made Who's That Knocking at My Door. In the interim, he's made some of these short films. He has been an editor on Woodstock, which we talked about

on our Stop Making Sense episode. He's connected with Thelma Schoonmaker at this time. They worked on that movie together. And he's starting to kind of put the pieces of the puzzle together. And he makes this movie, this period piece with Barbara Hershey,

that is kind of a cheap, like, run-and-gun kind of a movie, like a lot of those Roger Corman movies. And it's, like, not really a great success. It's not a failure by any means. But he comes kind of a movie like a lot of those Roger Corman movies and it's like not really a great success it's not a failure by any means

but he comes out of the experience feeling a little bit sad and a little bit unsure of what to do next and he shows the movie to John Cassavetes

who had been an early champion of his John Cassavetes is like you just spent a year of your life making a piece of shit why don't you make something about

your life that you care about which is interesting because John Cassavetes, who made his money working in mainstream studio movies, then funded his own movies personally. And in a way, one, I think it's safe to say you do not have Martin Scorsese without John Cassavetes. But Martin Scorsese feels like the culmination

of the two sides of John Cassavetes. Fierce, independent filmmaker making difficult films about complicated issues in the world and really deep emotional stories. But also appearing in The Dirty Dozen.

You know what I mean? Like that's kind of the Scorsese ethic. And then he, I think he continues that ethic up through basically the last

six years. And then in the last five or six years it feels like he's like I've got, maybe was conscious of this before talking to Zach where he's like I've got maybe was conscious of this before talking to Zach where he's like

I have like a few left in me and they have to really count right it felt like with silence forward he was like box office I do not care

I'm not interested I'm just trying to get through as many stories that matter to me as possible the conversation with Cassavetes leads to Mean Streets so you mentioned your dad's favorite

is Mean Streets which I re- your dad's favorite is Mean Streets, which I re-watched and I have not seen, I would say in about 10 years. Why? Did he say what it was? No, you know, it was my dad,

a man of few words. But he just texted me back and he was like, Mean Streets, 10 years before you were born. And then he said, hi to Knox. That's what I got.

That's, you know. Has Knox seen Mean Streets yet? No, he hasn't. Okay. When's the last time you saw it? Uh, I watched it this week for, for the pod. Um, it's, it's just fantastic. I think that, uh, if we're building a 10 entry hall of fame, I don't know that it makes it in for me, but it is so cool to see someone who's like, essentially like

writing the music as it goes along you know like you can see him sort of like obviously have some ideas about I want to do whether it's the music whether it's this kind of shot whether it's this kind of character this kind of relationship between guys but it still feels as fresh as it must I can't imagine

what it must have felt like to watch this movie in the 70s and just be like holy shit this feels like real life being injected into me yeah if you read the contemporaneous reviews there are a few that are like wow what a shotgun blast to american movies which happens like once every 10 15 years maybe yeah somebody comes along you're like oh well this changes it i i think it is deeply imperfect um but i also even more so than the stuff we were talking about for the last 10 minutes it is the template setter yeah it's it's like like all the pieces coming together yeah his collaboration with de niro the portrait of the kind of conflicted man with god the his relationship to women. I think that's another thing that like,

as we go through these movies, he's made very few movies that center women, but I find that his attempt to understand women through his movies is fascinating. This is a person who's been married multiple times who, you know, I think, especially being raised in the church, has some difficulty figuring out

what a man's relationship to a woman should be but he's almost never openly disrespectful and Teresa Robinson's performance in this movie is that her name? Teresa Robinson? Who went on to

be a producer with him is really interesting as a woman who has epilepsy and who Harvey Keitel's character has fallen in love with and who

he wants to be with but is too embarrassed to be with her. Her name is Amy Robinson. Amy Robinson. She plays a character named Teresa. Got it.

Thank you. Sorry, Bob. No, it's okay. I just want to make sure that for the listeners at home that they're screaming that it's called Teresa Robinson.

But it feels like kind of a stand-in for his relationship to all women where he's like, is it okay for me to bring a nice girl around? Yeah.

That's not the first time. Yeah. Well, it is the first time but not the last time he'll do that in movies i feel like i mean i'm i would advocate for yellow for mean streets okay i i think it has to be yellow i you are always in the hall of fame exercise is the one being like, we must have a historical marker. Well, my... And this is like... My gut is that we do in this case, but Chris says no. Is it the next one? Could be.

Could be. But this is also a movie that is an outlier to the point I was just making. That sometimes is fun to have in there. I love this movie. Yeah, this movie is fucking incredible. Alice Doesn't Live Here anymore. It's so good.

Alice Doesn't Live Here one year later. What do you love about it, Amanda? Well, you rightfully just spent a while talking about Scorsese's female characters. And they're not usually at the center of the frame. Obviously, this one is. Ellen Burstyn. And there is something very lived in and not condescending about this movie and about it being about this woman. She's a single mom, I think.

Yeah. I rewatched it with Zach when he was prepping for it. She's a widow. Oh, that's right. And, you know, what I was saying earlier about scorsese primarily making movies about men and i i think it often being an exploration of masculinity or whatever um but that that not feeling exclusionary um like applies here in reverse right where it's just it's just a a weird and charming movie about a woman and it's not text of the i mean i guess it is the text of the thing but it's just like it's another

person you know who's trying to figure things out with his like deafness and i it's and great performances ellen burston so i don't know just, it also feels for so early in his career so fully realized, you know? Yeah, I think, I think it's a little bit, it's not just that it's underrated

in his filmography. I think it's something that people say a lot of the time. I think it's a little bit forgotten how big of a deal it was. It was a pretty big hit.

She's extraordinary. And she won Best Actress for this movie. And it's the first movie that she made after The Exorcist, which was the biggest movie of the 70s to that point, more or less.

It feels weirdly the most Cassavetes of the movies that he's made. And I also really love thinking about it in the context of a bunch of his films are about people being confronted with the reality of their dreams, usually the American dream, but just like the idea that I wanted, I always wanted to do this. I always wanted to be a gangster. I always wanted to sell things.

I always wanted to make a ton of money. I always wanted to get closer to God. And then they find out what's behind the curtain, you know, like her sort of like wanting to be a singer, winding up being a waitress, but then finding peace in some of those things. It's like the way that this film works with the rest of his filmography,

I think it's fascinating because it has a distinctly different energy because of Burstyn rather than De Niro or Keitel or DiCaprio or whoever. It is still kind of a for hire movie. Sure. You know, like he's kind of sought out to do this because he's coming off of the kind of like his cool indie success of Mean Streets, you know, which announced him as a big

new voice. And so when that happens, you get a lot of offers in the business. And so it is not really like in the true character of a lot of the kinds of movies that he makes. It's really interesting. And so my instinct is to make it yellow and make them both yellow and we'll kind of figure out when we get through the classics I mean we only have 10 spots because they're kind of two sides of the same coin they're kind of like classic first and second movies

even though they're like the sixth or seventh movies that he actually made but then he takes this movie about a single mom that's kind of like a it's certainly a romantic drama but it's also sort of a comedy

in some ways like it's pretty funny no it's really funny and it has that like all of the characters at the diner and all the people in the restaurants

are very memorable and have their weird talky moments. You know, everything, every little moment is very observed in a Scorsese way. For sure.

Yeah, it's kind of like somewhere between a Hal Ashby movie and like a James L. Brooks movie or something. Very approachable but a little strange. But then he uses that capital

in this movie making $20 million to make Taxi Driver. You know, he uses his friend, Paul Schrader's script and thinks about, I guess, the isolation and anxiety and alienation from society and culture that he's feeling, that Schrader's feeling,

that I'm sure his star Robert De Niro's feeling, to make really one of the more unnerving American movies, certainly American masterpieces of all time. And in a way, this kind of like brands him, I think, as a certain kind of filmmaker, in a way that maybe even the last two that we discussed didn't, for better and for worse. We did rewatchables about this movie with Bill Hader, actually, during the pandemic, which was really cool.

I forgot that. Unfortunately, Bill Hader's voice was recorded at the bottom of a submarine, so it doesn't sound that great. But his insights were incredible on the movie. And I know it's one of his favorite movies. It's definitely one of mine. I find this to be of the two deeply damaged men movies that he made um between this and Raging Bull yeah the much more re-watchable and re-understandable which is also which is a lot about how fucked up Raging Bull is that you're like taxi driver I'm not sure yeah yeah

yeah but there is something pretty funny about this movie too um when you think about like him taking Sybil Shepard out on the date for the first time. Oh, it's really good. You know, it's kind of like a big curb episode for about half an hour. And then things obviously get much more twisted

and much more deranged and we're sort of like unsure if we're in Travis's mind or if we're in the real world or what's actually happening. To me, this is a green. Yeah, of course. This is like a very clear,

this is one of the five movies he'll be remembered for. It catapults, I think, De Niro up to to even a bigger frame from where he was with Godfather 2. He's gone into a historical precedent as an American actor. When's the last time you saw this movie? Do you pair it with Joker? I think I rewatched it this year. I can't remember why.

Maybe I rewatched it for De Niro movie draft because I hadn't seen it in a while. I don't think I rewatched it for Joker. I was good. I like where it's Chris Hazen got what they were doing and turned it off. Not Taxi Driver Joker. And no, but I think I rewatched it this year and it is incredibly powerful. You know, an interesting thing about this movie is like the larger cultural footprint that it has had over time. And that's, I mean, like when we were growing up and like you're talking to me and, you know, it feels like it showed up in commercials. And I don't know if there were actually SNL skits, but that kind of it had like a pre-internet college dorm poster like meme like larger movie yeah exactly um which you know

has can is a double-edged sword but as is at least a testament to how significant it was and then obviously you know we have in cells now and that's like a very cool thing. When you say we have them, you have them? So it just, you know, it keeps coming back, which is a testament to its power and also just kind of like the immediate way it got lodged in all of our brains. But it was interesting watching it this year and trying to put away all the cultural stuff that's been projected onto it. Just like a very tense, weird, powerful movie. When's the last time you ever watched it? It's been a while. I think I watched it in the last 10 years, but it's been a very long time.

Can you guess where this movie appears on the 2022 Sight & Sound Greatest Fil time does this why are we doing this is it a great podcast game is it in the 30s we have a guess just go over or under say like it's either higher than 30 or lower than it's higher than 31 which is where portrait of a lady what do you mean it's a it's above it or below it on the list? Oh, I think that it's... Put a number on it. 37. It's 29. Oh, okay. I was wrong.

So for once, Martin Scorsese has triumphed over Celine Sciamma. Yeah, this one's going in. 1977, New York, New York. Leveling up yet again. Making a big top period piece movie musical in the tradition like kind of like um reimagining a vincent minnelli movie or an mgm musical of some kind and trying to like put his very particular east coast embittered spin on a story like that. Chris is just like, I wish I could communicate your face right now. Sometimes when you hear me using vocabulary words to describe movies,

are you like, I just want to be drowned a lot, like in public. What do you think I would rather be talking about? That's nice. That's a nice way of saying it. Thank you. Like Dame Lillard's points per possession.

I like talking about this at Dave and Selma. You'll have plenty of time to talk about Dame Lillard's points per possession. I like talking about Vincente Mazzella and Vinelli. You'll have plenty of time to talk about Dame Lillard's points per possession during the playoffs. New York, New York, I think you did rewatch it recently. Did you not? We feel like we talked about it. We were like, this is not quite hitting. No, I also rewatched it for the De Niro draft. And in that case, to try to find my points of what could be Amanda spots possibly in a competitive situation.

Sure. It was not an Amanda spot. It's really hard to see. I ended up watching an illegal stream. I'm really sorry, Martin Scorsese. Oh, wow. Because it's not. Can I make a suggestion?

Yeah. Consider physical media. I did. Not so hard to see when you've got a shelf. And then I asked you to borrow it and you forgot. Did that happen? Yeah. Okay. So it's okay. Make a shelf. And then I asked you to borrow it and you forgot. Did that happen? Yeah. Okay.

So it's okay. Make better friends. I don't know what to say. Then I was up against a deadline. I think it was checked out of Vidiot's. Okay. Or maybe Zach checked it out for his story and then. Forgot to return it?

Yeah, or something. I don't know. Great anecdote. Incredible stuff. Hard to see, but I persevered. And I like that he tried. That's my summation. It's slow.

The pacing. Very slow. And for a director who understands enjoyment and understands that some things are supposed to be really fun, his interpretation of those Vincent Minnelli movie musicals is very punishing. I'm not sure he was in the place in his life to truly feel the passion and romance of Hollywood musicals.

Yeah. Which is not in and of itself disqualifying. That's an interesting place to approach it. Yeah. As with all things, I think it's fascinating that he wanted to try. Yeah. And it's at a time when he has not yet

been completely like systematized where people are like, this is a Martin Scorsese movie and this is not. You know, he's still kind of figuring out

what his approach to these kinds of stories is. So in 78, the year after New York, New York, which is a red, I think safe to say, he does make The Last Waltz, which, which is a red, I think safe to say. He does make the last waltz,

which... That is a green. I'm open to it. You feel comfortable with that being a definitive green? Yeah. Okay. I get it. Listen, I more than anyone

understand the importance of the last waltz to many of your generation and the generation before and the generation after Bobby. You The Last Waltz guy? Certainly not to the extent that Chris and Sean are. But I didn't tell people in college to go watch it, if that's what you're asking. That's not how it happened.

Exactly, Bobby. But okay. I wasn't watching it by myself. What would the point of that be? Who's your favorite non-the-band, non-scorsese performer in The Last Waltz? Oh, I mean,

just strictly based on his public health advocacy Van Morrison. Yeah. Just full swag. Yeah. Purple jumpsuit, ripping heaters,

and singing his balls off. And just tearing masks off people. Yeah. Just be like, it's not real. Are we just not going to tell the listeners

that that's how Chris is dressed right now. That's right. In this podcast. LeMay. I'm just going to leave that out. You look great.

I think he is inspiring if I ever want to get like super puffy that like I could still be cool. You know? He really is like what if an Irish troll was

the man. How would you go about getting super puffy? Just eat marshmallows like he does. I would just be stay puffed. Do you have a favorite? No, I mean, I don't.

I like Van Morrison a lot. My son likes Van Morrison. I don't remember all of the... Maybe Eric Clapton, speaking of health advocacy. That's right. If the last waltz doesn't happen, what does that mean for COVID? Like sliding doors?

You think there's no COVID? That's interesting. Are you willing to make that sacrifice is really the question. What about Joni Mitchell? Oh, yeah. Yeah? I love Joni. What about Bob Dylan?

Yeah, he's good. I'm pro. Bob Dylan, he has the songs he performs on, just reminding myself. Baby, Let Me Follow You Down, Hazel, I Don't Believe You, She Acts Like We Have Never Met. Fucking amazing song.

Forever Young, perhaps you've heard of it. And I Shall Be Released. Yeah, and that's the group. That's like the Wu-Tang Clan comes out for that. Ringo plays drums. Yeah. Fuck, man.

The Last Waltz. The Wait's the best part of it. Let's not skip that. I'm not skipping it. You've been advocating for the wait after your Big Chill performance, too. Yeah, I enjoyed that. We actually did listen to the wait this week in the car. It still goes.

I wondered whether my algorithm knew that I listened to the Big Chill rewatchables in fall. A-plus, guys. Thank you. Really good rewatchables. Really funny. And then, like, served me the wait. It's entirely possible. Yeah. Great song. fall a plus guys really good rewatch bulls really funny and then like served me the weight it's entirely possible yeah great song we

have so many more films okay so the last Walt is in sorry for engaging with your last Walt's content I appreciate it thank you very much for all you do for this show 1980 Raging Bull I mean green it's gotta be green

it's probably one of the most virtuosic filmmaking performances I've ever seen and although really hard to stomach one of the most

incredible acting performances I've ever seen when I bring up a movie like this in an episode like this do you think I should be like 1980s portrait of

Jake LaMotta he transitions from a heavyweight or a welterweight fighter in New York in the 1950s to a... Yes, and I think you should always do it in the movie

phone voice. Yeah. Also starring Kathy Moriarty and Joe Pesci. No, do you think listeners need that or want that in this context? Or do you think they're like,

you know what? Sean, shut the fuck up. Say the name of the movie. Let's keep it moving. In general, the feedback that we seem to get and Bobby is on the front lines of this is say the name of the movie let's keep it moving in general the feedback that we seem to get and bobby is on the front lines of this is say the name of the movie louder okay so say the name of the movie

you can give a little capsule description okay and then people can can learn more from there i think for every movie we should have like a song and dance number that you've prepared ahead of time that we just interstitial put into every episode. Bobby, that is great producing. Thank you. I just signed myself up for a lot of work though. I will write that song

and record it at Electric Ladyland. And John Bryan will provide strings. Yes. Phenomenal. And I'll bring it back and we can listen.

It may not slap as hard as Science Corner, but I will attempt to replicate its greatness. Raging Bull is in. Oh, damn. Should I not slap as hard as Science Corner, but I will attempt to replicate its greatness. Raging Bull is in. Oh, damn. Should I see the creator just for Science Corner?

We're not doing like 30 more minutes on the creator. What makes you think that my Science Corner is going to be 30 minutes long for the creator? I'll tell you what, if you'd like to,

you may. We got some Science Corner opportunities on this list coming up, you know? We got some planes. Intriguing. Okay. 1982, The King of Comedy've got some planes. Intriguing. Okay. 1982, The King of Comedy.

Now, this is a personal favorite. This is in a personal pantheon. This is among my favorite movies ever. This movie's incredible. We're entering this interesting period, though, where, and Chris alluded to this earlier in our conversation, I think for a certain kind of person that is probably around our age or our experience, we're like secretly the 80s

is where Scorsese is at his best. But I would say... When he was personally at his worst. Yes. And also really... And then rebuilds himself. Really frustrated and feeling like no one cared about him

or his ideas and unable to mount The Last Temptation of Christ for years. Right. This movie, I watched an interview with him last night where he said that Entertainment Tonight called this movie the flop of the year, just as he was told that The Last Temptation of Christ was not going to start filming.

They were pulling the plug, he said, four weeks before Christmas of 1982. And that he was at his lowest point, that this was him feeling like he'd been completely shut out of hollywood and no one wanted to work with him but to watch the king of comedy is one of the most prescient movies about celebrity ever made um is like a brilliant black comedy and this is a time when he is like really leaning into black comedy and features incredible performance it seems like a really hard movie to make um seems like it's really challenging jerry to make. Seems like it was really challenging.

Jerry Lewis, very challenging to work with. De Niro doing a very intense performance. Shooting in New York. But I love this movie. I think this is like a borderline perfect movie. So you referenced the 80s and people of a certain generation and persuasion. Two of whom might be sitting in this room being like, it's really the 80s. So let's do all all the 80s movies

that's a really good idea together right now so we've got King of Comedy we've got 1985 After Hours we've got 1986

The Color of Money we've got 1988 The Last Impatient of Christ and then we have 1989 a segment in New York

and we already have two greens three greens we have three greens we have seven places and we have one. We have three greens right now. So we have seven places and we have one, two, three, four, technically five 80s movies.

And now the purpose of this is a fine-grained combination of our favorites and what matters the most. Yeah. That's ultimately what the exercise is. For me personally, I could make a strong case

for King of Comedy, After Hours, and Color of Money all going in. Right. Now I don't think that that would be the consensus amongst the film scholars. Right. I could be wrong. I think King of Comedy and After Hours seem to have gotten a critical reappraisal over the last 10 years. That really celebrates them.

I think there's a little bit more of an island of guys who like watching other guys play pool who like Color of Money. I don't have a joke. I just want to let that sit. Guys who sit around with other guys and they're like, hey, who's got next? I got $10.

That's a great summation of your vibe yeah color of money is like it is so far green for me but i know that it you know it's it's not something where i'm gonna like throw myself off a cliff if we don't have that in the hall of fame is it crazy to put king of comedy after i was in the color of money and in the last temptation of christ out because that's a movie that for me doesn't work. It does not work for me. It has the most, one of my favorite endings of a film.

But as a movie, those guys being like, hey, I'm Jesus. No, it's like, it's not my, it's the one time where I, and I feel really bad because it's probably the central preoccupation of his professional career

is getting this movie made. How controversial it was. You know, I think a lot of people recognized its brilliance, but like, I don't know that it still plays personally. Yeah. So. Judas. Harvey Keitel as Judas is a choice. Yes.

It is a choice. What's the matter with you? These people, they want the fishes. But even with all of your biblical study, this movie does not connect. No. Yeah, I don't want to sidetrack us, but I would love to get a chance to weigh in on Satan

when you guys have a chance. Yeah, go. I have had not one, but two private requests from friends for a garbage Satan episode. Okay. Just putting that out there. Let's just say it. Also, Van has demanded that he appear on a garbage satan episode okay let's just say also van has demanded that he appear okay on a satan oriented episode so if you want to have a mega satan showdown so

would that include like so is it satan himself or is it satan taking over other beings and objects sounds like a good topic of discussion for the pod. Okay. I adore you guys, but you guys being like, is Satan in the Bible was wild stuff. I did not say that. That was me. I forgot.

Okay. We've just wild, you know, we've gotten away from the text. Yeah. Do you believe in Satan? I do. So what's Satan up to right now? I mean, what's he not up to right now? That's exactly right.

He's busy. The world is a fire. I don't believe in Satan as like a guy, a red devil sitting underneath of like, you know, the core of the earth. You believe in evil? Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. You believe in him appearing as James Harden. You believe that evil is concentrated and like is an organized force. It's not like an ooze, but it is like, I think that it is a power. More of a vibe. Yeah.

It's a power. It's a force in the world. And it's like out there working every day. I think that this is actually how Scorsese feels about this. I think that that is true as well. But I wonder whether it's evolving over time. And whether Satan is outsider or inside the spirit. It's kind of like Ghostbusters, I think.

The skies are darkening. Satan is a... Shit went bad. He's kind of Slimer. Yeah, it's Slimer energy. I'm just going to boldly say we're going to green King of Comedy After Hours, Color of Money. I showed After Hours to my wife last night for the first time. I was stunned that she had never seen it

and when she was watching it she was like this is such a me movie I can't believe I've never seen this but a movie that at the time I think was kind of underestimated as like

a trifle for someone who had made Raging Bull and Taxi Driver but as Chris said has gotten like a major reclamation just reissued by

the Criterion Collection truly and a truly original movie. Like, a movie that is kind of the like, starter kit

David Lynch movie in so many ways. Very Kafka-esque. Very much like a nightmare anxiety dream for 98 minutes. Very funny. Everyone's cool. New York is cool,

but everybody's also disgusting and weird and you can tell they smell. Like, just an ultimate downtown New York movie before being downtown in New York was cool. I love it so much.

I think it's actually when it was cool. Yes. And then all the cool people were like, now this is cool and that was not cool. It was cool,

but everyone was broke. Yeah, that's true. And then there was a short period when it was cool and people were starting to get money and then it got too rich

and is no longer cool. But that's neither here nor there. Just for what it's worth, it's true. And then there was a short period when it was cool and people were starting to get money. And then it got too rich and is no longer cool. But that's neither here nor there. Just for what it's worth, it's also really cool. Sorry to say that word over and over again. That if you go through the decades, he has like a perfect snapshot of New York in each one of them. Like an amazing sort of like take taxi driver. And you're like, that's what that must have felt like in the 70s. Take After Hours, you're like, oh, that's what it was like to be coked up and running around Tribeca in the 80s.

And then you can do that with Goodfellas. You can do that with, you know, like, you can keep going through Wolf of Wall Street. So, all three. Well, we'll see. Okay. We'll see. Okay. Isn't that what the yellow is for?

I probably should green. If we make it yellow, color of money. You can put color of money in see. Okay. We'll see. Okay. Isn't that what the yellow is for? If we make it green... I probably should yellow Color of Money. You can put Color of Money in yellow. Yeah. I have my personal list. It's very high up there. I'm not trying to tell you that it needs to be in there instead of certain other things. I think another trio of podcasters could look at this list and say all of these movies are yellow at best.

Okay. King of Comedy is a hard green for me. Okay, good. I like that take. That makes it easier. Yeah, we don't have to take that one back. New York Stories, the Life Lessons segment starring Nick Nolte is wonderful.

Yes. It's a fascinating portrait of an artist and an artist in a relationship that isn't working. I highly recommend people check this out. The other two segments are not so great in my opinion. There's a Francis Ford Coppola segment and a Woody Allen segment. They feel very minor in their stories.

It is a notable Francis Ford Coppola film. Who's in the Woodman segment? Is it just him? I don't even remember. I'm not sure. I don't think so. Hold on, let me check that out. The Woodman, huh?

That's an interesting take. His is called Oedipus Rex Rex spelled W-R-E-C-K-S no shit it is starring Woody Allen and Mia Farrow

and Julie Kavner and Larry David oh interestingly enough Life Without Zoe I feel like is very inspired by his relationship to his

daughter Sofia Coppola yeah the Francis Ford Coppola that's right and Life Lessons stars Nick Milti and Rosanna Arquette, who we had just worked with in After Hours, who is just a genius and probably like my dream girl, ultimately. I'm just going to put that out there for you guys. I lean Linda Fiorentino, but yes.

Okay. And that defines us in so many ways. That's powerful. 1990, good fellas. This invented the color green. Ellsworth Kelly green Yeah Agreed All my life

I just wanted to be in the Martin Scorsese Hall of Fame Well You're here now and we are greening this masterpiece of a film

Yeah Probably the biggest movie that influenced my taste in movies Right? Yeah Just As you said

taught me how to watch movies Yeah It's Kind of we got a karen karen we only have three more spots in the hall of fame why did you do that 1991 you turned the whole 80s green cape fear uh no uh but i haven't seen it because my mom said it was really scary Cape Fear no no but

I haven't seen it because my mom said it was really scary oh is it scary no it's not really scary he's scary

De Niro's scary but it's also like very over the top my mom has interesting sensibilities so I don't know well he is quite menacing in the film

and the idea is very menacing it gets a little cartoonish at the end I'm saying no because I think we need to maybe tighten the belt a little bit here. Yeah.

Like Kevin McCarthy says, it's time for... All right. I think we got two really... Who is he saying? Is he saying that to you? To all of us. Mostly to Sleepy Joe.

He's like, stop this reckless spending. If you could, would you shut down the government? But only if I could then make an uninterrupted 18-hour speech about the purpose of color of money. And why it belongs in the Hall of Fame. Do you want to be a congressman just so you can filibuster? Yeah, I mean, I think that would be really funny.

That would be an incredible end to the JMO experiment and the American experiment simultaneously. That would be really good. I think you could be elected in the right community. Yeah, if we started a new district somewhere where it was just for... You and I? Yeah.

Okay, you want to build a new town district somewhere where it was just for you and I. Yeah. Okay. You want to, you want to build a new town walkable. Okay. You mean like the way that Oppenheimer built a town sold? I'm in. Okay. Bob is a chamber of commerce.

And I would be, yeah, of course you're invited. What would your role in the town be? Great question. Now that you're invited, do you want to come? Like, do you want to be the mayor of that town?

Do you want to just own a nice shop in the town? What would you like to do? I'd like to own a nice combo bookstore. Coffee shop. Bar. Taco Bell Pizza Hut. Flower store. Taco Bell Pizza Hut.

Yeah. A flower store? You want it to be. Wow. I like that. Yeah. You want to be that guy. We're not, like, giving flowers enough to other people in society.

I just gave my wife so many flowers. Like over a hundred flowers, yeah, for our anniversary. Seriously. Oh, that's right. It was your anniversary. I was like, just because? No, but I'm trying to do it more. Just in general.

It's really nice. Just having them in the house is so special. Everyone's just like, oh, people always send flowers, so we don't need to send flowers. But like, that's actually wrong. People don't send flowers enough send flowers great take I just give my wife

blank checks when I sign them when I say get you something nice I was like maybe wait a day for that to clear but then

it sounds like you're gonna fit right in with the government we have two tricky ones here that are fun to talk about. 1993 is The Age of Innocence, another movie that I think, like After Hours and The King of Comedy, has been deeply reclaimed

in the last 10 years as one of his great achievements. I rewatched this last night, and it has more interesting new moves from him in any movie up to that point. It's him totally trying a new style without losing his identity. Yes.

It didn't, it wasn't, like, my favorite when I was watching it. You know what I mean? I was still, like, it still felt like a guy where putting on

an ill-fitting jacket at times, which I know that not everybody agrees with that, but I'm just, I'm putting that out there. I think it's worth mentioning also that at the time

in the early 90s, like, these kinds of movies were the kinds of movies that won Oscars. I mean, this sort of like merchant ivory-esque, you know, period pieces. And, you know,

in the moment, he's obviously considered one of the sort of great filmmakers of his generation, but it's not necessarily like he's like a commercial guarantee. It's not like he's Tarantino where every time he puts out a movie, it makes $250 million and it pays for itself multiple times over. So it's so interesting,

these little moments in his career where he like is like, do I need to be Sidney Pollack? Like, do I need to be the guy who's just kind of like the safe pair of hands for a really good piece of literature? Yeah. Well, I think this to me felt the most

Powell and Pressburger of all of his movies. Not because it's a period piece, but because stylistically, he's trying to do something that is both naturalistic and highly stylized at the same time. Right. So when he's framing his characters, he's putting two candles right between their

head to frame them up as if you're looking at a painting, you know, it's a very painterly movie. The way that it's cut is very impressionistic. Lots of insert shots, you know, really showing the kind of fine details of the world, frankly,

very Sofia Coppola, you know, I just saw Priscilla and it's, it's on my mind. I feel like she must really have an, an appreciation for that movie. So, and,

and also very notably Greta Gerwig has pulled a lot from this movie that convention of characters reading the letter into camera which she uses i think in little women so like it's a very influential yeah yeah um i think also you know we've been talking a lot about his women characters and michelle pfeiffer as countess alenska is i i mean obviously like radiant and this is a movie that like is about thwarted love or that you know the the appeal of that character but he understands it's my favorite michelle pfeiffer performance and just and just like he understands both like how to film her as this like just completely captivating and forbidden object but also that performance like i think gives her life and you know it's it is a very unscoresay movie but it is also about a closed

world with hierarchies and rules and this sense of you can only live one way and only do certain things and characters butting up against that and being like what if there is something more and you know also kind of like hidden alliances and people being up to things and um and and wearing your heart in your sleeve or or not as the case may be. Lots of repression in this movie. Yeah, exactly. But also fighting against that. I find this like, it is repressed by Scorsese standards,

but it is like a very, like, you feel the longing in this movie. And also coming from a, as a consumer of merchant ivory films and, you know, people in corsets or whatever it moves, it is a lot more alive in, in ways that feel very Scorsese to me. So,

I mean, I obviously adore this movie and I was prepared, you know, I watched it also last night. Should we do yellow? At least? At least yellow. I was prepared. You know, I watched it also last night. Should we do yellow? At least? At least yellow. I'm sorry. If After Hours is like green without even a discussion and this

is at least yellow. You're convincing me. You know, it's also... I assumed it was going in. Oh, great. Thank you. You thought it was going to go green. Well, I think that there's a tricky conversation here between this and Casino. Because Casino is iterative but extraordinary.

Casino can't go in until you guys record re-record my vocals. Yeah, your vocals. I pitched Bill on a live

in Vegas show yesterday. Oh. To re-casino. To re-gamble. To re-wager so that we can get your mic working.

He seemed interested. Did he? He did. Was he he did was he was like whose fault was that he did we didn't get into that um chris are you willing to come into the studio and like dub it you know like redo that would be funny i would do that with you if you wanted just offering my services thank you man um i'm willing to put it in i just think we're gonna have a conflagration at the end of this thing. I think probably we have to talk at the end about the list in whole and how representative we want it to be versus favorites. I mean, another thing about this, in addition to it being one of my favorite Scorsese movies, is also it speaks to the fact that he does do a lot of different things and tries a lot of different things and is like maybe more well-rounded than him being like the Goodfellas king wouldn't immediately make you think.

And I think that this movie in particular is like an amazing argument for it. I don't want to jump ahead, but I think that with the next film with Casino, because I think if you're saying green, I think we keep it green for Age of Innocence. I do think there's like a larger, like Goodfellas, Casino, Irishman, like is that too much of like one sort of- The same kind of movie. Yeah. Or just like- The same tract.

I think it's amazing that he tells that story in some ways in different settings, at different points of his life, and different points of his character's lives. Yes. Organized crime as a metaphor for the corrupted soul of America.

Yeah. That's what those movies are about. And the difficult relationships between men and women and, you know, how power rages kind of uncontrollably,

like all those big ideas. Casino is one of my favorite movies ever. It probably, I guess there is a world in which I saw it before Goodfellas. You know,

I was 13 when it came out. I told this story before. I think my uncle used to work for Seagram's, and then Seagram's acquired Universal. And so then all of a sudden, he had access to this entire world of movies, and he started getting screeners when they were on VHS. I remember he had a screener for Casino,

and it was still in movie theaters. And I was like, holy shit. Is this something that can happen? Yeah. Where you can actually have this movie while it was still in movie theaters and i was like holy shit is this something that can happen yeah where you can actually have this movie while it's still in movie theaters and blockbuster doesn't have it and that like twisting my brain in half um so i love the movie and i would re-watch it any day of the week but i also don't know that this feels like as important to the story of martin scese. What do you guys think? I think also if you're trying to come up with a relatively diverse selection of like... And maybe we are and maybe we aren't.

So that's another thing. That's the thing, yeah. So Chris mentioned the Irishman and I don't want to skip totally ahead. But if you're talking about that trilogy of Goodfellas, Casino, Irishman, I would advocate for Irishman before Casino, personally. Just because of what that is doing in the course of his career.

I mean, I love that movie. But also how in conversation it is with specifically Goodfellas, but this whole swath of his career. His last four movies are a real pickle i guess in theory we won't be including killers of the father because no one's seen it yet um okay so let's let's yellow casino okay which takes us uh well you know what i want to give a very quick shout out to something that means a lot to me which is a personal journey with martin scorsese through american movies which is a four hour documentary feature that, um, this is basically just Martin Scorsese talking over clips from movies that changed his life.

And, uh, it's an awesome masterclass before we had masterclass as a, as an idea about some of the things I think that Chris was describing about how movies are made, like the actual decisions that go into not just moving the camera, but how you tell a story and like what character means to a story and how you push that story forward. You know, he talks about a lot of noir films.

He talks about some of the Hollywood classics, but also some of that B-movie stuff that I'm talking about. It's a little harder to find. You got to like pay 10 bucks for it on Apple if you want to watch it. I have a DVD. You can probably buy a DVD on Amazon.

It's a very- Is it a DVD or a Blu-ray? It'svd on amazon um it's a it's a very dvd or a blu-ray it's a dvd unfortunately it's not an issue on blu-ray so i would happily work toward that in some capacity if if asked um but i don't know who has the rights to it what would you contribute yeah are you gonna be like printing the blu-ray like do you have that no he wants the ep credit you know oh i will well certainly i mean anything i can do there any calls i can make the Blu-ray? Like, do you have that technology capability? No, he wants that EP credit. You know? Oh, I will. Well, certainly. I mean, anything I can do there. Any calls I can make. There's like 63 people

who get executive producer credit on The Morning Show. It's so funny because it's like everybody who works for these people also. I know. Can I give a quick also movie nerd shout out

to In Visions of Light, which is a documentary I've cited a bunch of times. It's a documentary about the history of cinematography. which is a documentary i've said it a bunch of times it's a documentary about the history of cinematography there is a segment in that of michael chapman talking about the making of raging bull and just largely talking about like marty's particular genius but they're his sort of um breakdown and how they shot each of the boxing matches

is just like puts your brain in a microwave it is like this guy's operating at a much higher frequency than basically anybody else do you have anything you want to shout out right now I was just thinking

about Chris's subscription to American Cinematographer magazine can I tell you guys something yeah I'll tell you later amazing tease

yeah I'm going to tease in a future episode what you teased right here I guess I can say it and Bob honestly if it goes too long I'll keep this quick

I received a letter at Spotify headquarters a letter that I did not get it was from April so that I only have just gotten it

I don't know why it got lost or whatever so I get this letter it's from a guy who has like worked on sets throughout his life he's like

getting older and he was like I would like to bequeath my archives of american cinematographer magazine to you wow yeah this is clearly a plot to have you murdered and you do not realize it you have been drawn into the fly trap you must be careful and not pursue he wants to meet me in temecula? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, did he say we're a ball gag? Like, what else has to happen

before you get there? All right. 1997 Kundun. Marty, I liked it. It gave us that. Christopher Moltisanti. Yes. This is his lone

collaboration with Roger Deakins. And so it is a beautiful film to look at. Written by Melissa Matheson, ex-wife of Harrison Ford, one of the authors of E.T., an extraordinary screenwriter,

another passion project that he tried to get off the ground for many years. It's based on the life of the 14th Dalai Lama. You know, like a very noble film. Philip Glass did the score.

It's kind of like the heavy hitters coming together for a deep passion project. Philip Glass did the score. It's kind of like the heavy hitters coming together for a deep passion project. But it's definitely not one of my favorite Martin Scorsese movies. I think this is a red.

You think it should be deleted from his career? You're making an emoji face right now. No, I just think that, you know, we have some real tussles coming up.

Is your issue with this that you don't think Tibet should be free? This is, why do you keep bringing that up? It's just like, you know, me and the Beastie Boys

are trying to free Tibet. Uh-huh. Every day out here, while you're like, I'd like to get Martin Scorsese's Journey into Sonoma released on proper Blu-ray,

I'm like, fucking, me and Ad-Rock are doing the work. What work? You just read it. the work. What work? You just read it. Kundun. What about seven years in Tibet?

Where do you stand on that one? Full green. Yeah. That goes in. In Marty's. Yeah. Okay. Fair enough.

Good point. 1999. A reunion with Paul Schrader for Bringing Out the Dead. Probably a bad movie. Pretty much a bad movie. Yeah. But awesome trailer and great use

of clash's janie jones what and i think could have been a great movie what the listeners at home don't realize is that chris just took a leak and he came back and he was like i'm free and now he's just letting it loose so yeah because i'm still i'm still stuck on me and adrock doing the work have you ever given a dime to tibet no not a dime did you even buy the album from the freedom to do for swinging congress blue all of my money that i put into to these people i'm done. The tap's off. Bringing Out the Dead is out. Have you seen this movie?

I don't think so. Okay. You haven't seen it? It's about an EMT. Should we watch the trailer right now? It's got a really cool premise.

It's just like addled Nick Cage as a paramedics driver ambulance driver and he's driving around with Ving Rhames and the Clash is playing. Oh, that is cool.

But then it gets really goofy. That's not really, I mean, that's the setup. I don't know if that's what the movie's about. No, I guess that's why I'm telling her what the trailer is about.

Oh, I see, I see. And then it gets into, like, a bunch of nonsense. At what point are they free to bet in the movie, though? Kind of the to bet of the mind, I would say, is freed. I think it's in bringing out the Dead 2, Still Killing Them.

Which was my straight to Redbox sequel that I... Right, starring Gerard Butler. Right, yeah. In the Nick Cage role. You really did. You just had to pee for like 30 minutes. If you listen to the end of the sci-fi episode, I'm dying for like 20 minutes.

Your work was good. Not as good as what you've done in the last two minutes. So thank you. 2002 Gangs of New York. No. That's it. That's all you have to say about it. You have to go to the dentist.

I do. I do have to go to the dentist. I have 40 minutes. We're good. This is like Julia Roberts all over again. How are you going to get to the dentist that quickly do. I do have to go to the dentist. I have 40 minutes. We're good. This is like Julia Roberts all over again. How are you going to get to the dentist that quickly? Oh. Yeah, my dentist is down.

Yeah, but parking? What kind of parking situation? Is it Dr. Susan Hannigan? So you're just going to valet it? Yeah. That's what I always do. Okay. Yeah, but then they validate you.

You valet your dentist? Yeah, but they validate it. So you don't have to pay. You don't have to pay. Do you have cash for a tip? Do you tip very well? You always have cash. I do have cash.

Okay. Yeah. I do have cash. Okay. Yeah. I'm raised by the cash man. My dad's still walking around somewhere with $800 in cash for some reason. The reason you are allowed to become a real dad is because you just practiced that dad move of just always pulling out like a huge wad of cash. Do you think your father will leave his cash holdings to free Tibet? I can assure you not.

I had a funny call with my dad yesterday where I sent him a gift card for like a restaurant group in Newport. So when he goes to visit my sister, Grace, at college, like they could go to dinner in one of the four nice restaurants in the area. But because it was not a physical object. That's very nice of you, Sean. I know, but also just like Newport taking. I don't even know anything about Newport. I'm not, it could be, it could have 3000 great restaurants,

but I knew that these were good ones. Sure. So anyhow, I, but because it wasn't a physical card, he was like, I need you to send me the card. And I was like, there's no card. It's an email. It's an email with a barcode. And he was just like,

you're not making this clear to me. And I was like, I'll send you the email again. It has the barcode. Bring your email to the restaurant. And he was like like you're not making this clear to me and I was like I'll send you the email again it has the barcode bring your email to the restaurant and he was like wait but where's the card and that's the cash man

cash man reigns once more that was literally yesterday I had that conversation so that's perfect Gangs of New York I actually like quite a bit

but it clearly fails at what it's trying to do there are some obvious flaws. Bill always brings up how Cameron Diaz is just so miscast. He's not great in the film. Leo's getting blown off the screen by Daniel Day-Lewis.

One of the only times in any movie where he's getting blown off the screen. Daniel Day-Lewis is cooking up something fucking mighty. Like he is. It's incredible. It's stunning for him. Also, just to tie back to Zach's piece, Weinstein cut this. Killed it.

Totally. And we all would like to see the four-hour original vision of Gangs of New York. And that's another movie that, like Last Temptation of Christ, he and Jay Cox, his friend, the former journalist, have been trying to get going for many, many years. And he always wanted to make such a cool idea for a movie, the kind of like originating document of his interest

in organized crime. But ultimately kind of cool idea for a movie, the kind of like originating document of his interest in organized crime, but ultimately kind of a failure of a movie. So I'm with you, Amanda. It's red. Chris, any digressions from that? No, no argument. 2004 is The Aviator, a handsome feature that I think is kind of empty. And also quite a portrait of you and your ADU at this point.

I won't argue. Tissue boxes on your hands staring at the screen. Yeah, just jars of urine surrounding me. I will say, for this movie, anytime... Kate Blanchett. No, no, no. I was going to say anytime I think about Sean or anyone else truly barricaded in watching their 40th movie

on Letterboxd. Like it is the image of Leo at the end from this film. Like that is important cultural heritage, you know, handed down to us. Yes, for shut-ins who like movies. It's a very relevant document.

It's also his only movie about old Hollywood. And it's a very loving portrait of a time that he has talked about quite admiringly in the past. And so, you know, it's not just the Katharine Hepburn, Cate Blanchett performance. There are a number of well-known figures portraying great, you know, Kate Beckinsale in this movie, Adam Scott in this movie portraying a famous Hollywood star. It's a bunch of people who make appearances. And in that way, it is kind of fun. It has like a

little bit of a menagerie feel through the first hour and a half. And then it kind of descends into Hughes' madness and gets, frankly, a little bit more dull as that starts to happen. It becomes less of a tour through Hollywood. It's also such like

an interesting idea for a Scorsese movie. And you're like, oh, I think that I understand why you were drawn to this or the many reasons that you were drawn to it and like what you're trying to explore about your own relationship to movies and obsession and all of these things.

And it doesn't quite deliver in the way that some of his other experiments do. So, yeah, I think that there's a little bit of idolatry that comes from Scorsese and Warren Beatty and the people who have been so fascinated by Hughes. Because he was kind of like if Ted Turner was awesome at making movies, you know? Yeah, it's like this rich outsider who's going to reshape everything. Yeah, yeah. So you're right. The concept, the bones, the framework of the story is so cool. But it just feels like something is a little off at this time.

That then leads to The Departed, which is this major, major, major comeback. At this time, he's considered one of the old gray legends, but this movie was a massive hit. And obviously, it's the one that won him Best Picture, won him Best Director at the Academy Awards. It's big movie stars and big movie star parts. Very memorable movie. Him doing a lot of his greatest hits, Rolling Stones, Needle Drops,

and Smash Cuts, and Dolly Zooms, and all this crazy stuff that he's so good at. But I think that this is a new kind of filmmaking for him. How so? I just think that it's a chop shop movie. It's like the way he cuts, the way he's cutting back and forth, the way he cuts within scenes where somebody's telling a story and then they show what he's talking about and it's not exactly what he's saying it is.

The way that the music is used is actually almost psychedelic. He'll start a song, play it backwards, start it again in the middle and the next shot. It's really, really kaleidoscopic. And I know that it's kind of a studio movie.

It is, you know, he's talked in Zach's piece about they wanted it to be a franchise. They wanted him to keep characters alive for future films. Mark Wahlberg insists on every couple of years being like, we're still playing around with Departed 2. I mean, like, nobody's going to do that.

I read he gave up on Vegas already. He gave up on Nevada? Yeah. He's coming home? Back to Cali? That's what I read.. I read he gave up on Vegas already. He gave up on Nevada? Yeah. He's coming home? Back to Cali? That's what I read. But I don't, I can't verify it. I think he's moving back to Southie.

That would be a good, yeah. But it's green for me, Departed. What do you think? I rewatched it this week. Just for fun, honestly, because I can't remember what i had just watched for work and i was like well technically watching the departed could count for work for me it's a lot of fun it's so fun and like it was almost so much fun it was interesting to watch it after whatever i had just watched that felt like real homework and and and also in the context of re-watching a lot of

movies and and it to chris's point about it something new, this one to me really feels like, oh, you want to have some fun at the movies. And almost self-conscious about the bigness of what it's doing and all of the movie stars and the music and the more is more to the point that it's like almost too much, but it's not because it's amazing. Everyone is like really milking it. I haven't listened to The Redeparted. The Redeparted, yeah. Or at least I don't think I did. I was going to on the way home.

I think I was in my bag on that one, as I recall. Okay. That was the Combat Zone episode. I mean, like Jack Nicholson, I don't know whether you guys addressed this, but like Jack Nicholson might be like actively bad in this movie we did we did but even that kind of works you know and it's like part of the part of the whole experiment i mean like you know i know there's a whole thing about like removing the rat from the end of the thing but there's like a literal like is it CGI'd right?

Like that's not real rat. Yeah. Like it ends with like a CGI rat. That's actually one of Chris' rats that he's been training for years. CR rats. That's where he got all that money. That's where he got all your money

into the DMC. CR rats. Is it Flowers of Alderaan? Like the guy who's just like my friend a rat. That'd be funny. One of the funniest things that happens on the

Ringer Podcast Network is when Chris Vernon is like that's a rat team when he's talking about the utah jazz next time we do a draft i'm just gonna have like a rat that sits on my shoulder and see if you guys like a documentary about you and i fucking hate and your army of movie rats would be incredible i really do yeah Like if we were like in Manhattan, everybody needs to like go inside for like a day so that we can. Where's this going? I have a dentist appointment.

Okay, nevermind. So that you could just like do your own purge, but rats. Yeah, basically we need to have rat purge. Again, feature film in the making. Chris, Chris's purge against the rats in New York. Contact me. The Departed's green. The Departed is green sure

yeah for a variety of reasons many of which you guys just cited and also the fact that it is him breaking through the academy

and kind of what that will represent when he's written about I just want to very quickly cite this re-engagement with documentary filmmaking that happens at this time

he makes an episode of The Blues PBS documentary in 2003 called Feel Like Going Home which is on YouTube which is very good he makes, uh, an episode of the blues, uh, PBS documentary in 2003 called feel like going home, which is on YouTube, which is very good. He makes a documentary about the statue of Liberty called lady by the sea in 2004. He makes the wonderful no direction home, which is the Bob Dylan doc. It's yellow.

If it's not green, it's yellow. Okay. I'm with that. I like it. They were jamming this at the Dylan museum. This is, were they? Yeah. This is a really,

really great movie. They also have like a, not a big deal, but they have a screening room in the back of the Dillon Museum where they show a lot of unseen footage I had never seen

Hard to Handle, which is like this Australia concert film where he's backed by Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers and it is fantastic. Wow. Yeah, just plug in.

Good shout. Plug in Jesus era Bob Dylan. In 2008, he makes Shine a Light, which is a concert film of the Rolling Stones, which I don't think

is very good. I'm just going to put that out there. The Rolling Stones. Is that when Christina Aguilera was singing with them? I believe so, yes. I saw this in theaters.

Not a great... Did you? I mean, it was like Sunday afternoon. I was hungover, you know? Sick. I went with a boy, you know, as one does.

Did you go with Mick? The Jagger? No. Okay. I went with a boy, you know, as one does. Did you go with Mick? The Jagger? No. Okay. I went with a boy. Well, I did. I think the Dylan movie is important in a way because it starts this trend of him making docs

about artistic figures that he's really interested in. I don't think any of these movies are going to make it in, but I just kind of want to cite them really quickly. He makes an Ilya Kazan movie called The Letter to Ilya in 2010. In 2010, he also makes a movie called Public Speaking about Fran Lebowitz, which is really interesting. 2011, George Harrison Living in the Material World, amazing movie if you're interested in George Harrison, big four hour documentary for HBO. 2014 is the 50-year argument about Robert Silver's and the New York Review of Books, which feels like a miracle that HBO paid for that movie to get made about a newspaper magazine

about books. That feels like something that will never happen again. 2019, Rolling Thunder Review of Bob Dylan's story, absolutely one of the funniest mockumentaries ever made that also is secretly a documentary and then this this past year on Showtime Personality Crisis One Night Only a story of David Johansson

from the New York Dolls which is with Robert Tedeschi a lot of these movies are with Robert Tedeschi who is kind of like his co-director on a lot of these

portrait movies and you can see that Tedeschi is doing a lot of the work and Scorsese is bringing some of the spiritual guidance but I would say

all of those movies are actually worth watching. And that's just one more thing that he does that nobody else does. Circling back, 2010, Shutter Island. I believe that this is

an automatic red that is a five-star masterpiece. Is Martin Scorsese the only director that has that? What's up with you? You're like you've talked for 8 straight minutes

I'm good I'm cooking I'm trying to get through my mouth's gonna be open without any speaking you're just gonna go through the rest I mean I can do that

if you want no I had a take I had a strong take I love that take and I also agree with you that Shutter I agree Shutter Island

is a fucking hands down awesome film. Yes. And I can't really put it in the Martin Scorsese Hall of Fame, but somehow gets better and better even more you know the twist. Oh, interesting. Yeah. The actual filmmaking in it, I think, is as sophisticated and interesting as anything he's done.

But in Zack's piece, he was like, I would have skipped that one if I could do it all over again and he was saying that in part because he was like I don't want to do another studio movie I want to do the movies

that matter to me and I understood what he meant I was like no I can't let I like it more than Silence so sorry well it's coming up

very shortly Shutter Island is red 2011's Hugo is a movie I really wanted to revisit for this conversation and just did not have time I've only seen it one time and I did not like it

I don't think I ever saw Hugo. I don't remember if this is in the piece, but Zach and I were talking last night and he said that Scorsese told him that he thinks Hugo is one of his best movies. I have heard him say that before. I know that there is a contingent of people that really admire it. It's obviously a love letter to a different form of filmmaking. Right. Like The Aviator. And it is beautiful, but it is shot in a way that makes it feel like,

it feels like CGI, even if it isn't. It doesn't feel like it's taking place in the real world. And I think of him as such a grounded, real world filmmaker. And also kid performances are hard. You know, Ace of Butterfield's good,

but I struggle with it personally. I saw it on a date with Zach and then we went to Keens afterwards love Keens and Keens was really great

and that's my review okay Hugo you haven't seen it I was more of a homestead steakhouse guy but yeah they're both great I would

I would welcome sponsorship from either of those spaces so would I can we do an event there that's just me having shrimp cocktail it would be really funny if you guys

got sponsored by one of those we will mail you meat companies and then you had to be like, I don't even go to steakhouses anymore because the great people of Omaha Steaks send me steaks. I straight up love Omaha Steaks, so if they're listening, holler at me. Amanda's begging for beauty

products on this pod. I would happily receive a steak. thank you to the really nice people no no okay yes but Vanessa like someone actually

listens to our podcast and sent it to me and she was like hello to Vanessa and her husband who are very nice you said that The Wolf of Wall Street

is one of your is your favorite Martin Scorsese movie and yet you bend the knee to capitalism no I'm listen I'm one of the people

in the very last shot who is susceptible to capitalism like the rest of us. turning herself over the blood and the body to the great big dollar

in the sky. Oh, she's getting her head shaved? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Remember Kimmy? I do remember that. I've watched this too.

This is one of the great movies. Wolf of Wall, is it, is it one of the great movies. Wolf of Wall... Is it too millennial to be like Wolf of Wall Street and The Departed are in and The Last Temptation of Christ is not in? We can only be us. Yeah. And Chris isn't a millennial. I know.

And he said that he identifies with Boomer, but I disagree. No, I think that I got that question somewhat twisted in my head. You did. But I do think that I have principles. You think boomers have principles and millennials do not? That's insane.

Well, what are millennial principles? Defining your life by your work. So is Martin Scorsese does that too. He's kind of out of generation.

You think Martin Scorsese is a millennial? I don't really think that's a millennial principle at all. That's just your principle? No, it is.

It's considered a huge thing amongst millennials. That like your self-worth is baked into your professional career. Because it's a post-08 thing. Oh. Well, okay. But defining that you're... I thought you said defining yourself by your job as opposed to defining your job. Your job is like wrapped in.

Like you are a major part of your job no no more like your success like success is a is a is an anxiety driver whereas it was not in gen x all right that is that is true that is true so and i'm not i'm not saying that that is true for you necessarily no i i don't i don't think i have as much wrapped up in my yeah um the wolf of wall street is an auto green absolute auto green I'm walking out I'm not threatening you okay um I don't know I have said a lot about this movie I've talked about this movie many times I love it very very deeply um it seems sadly more prescient as the years go by and I also this this was a very discreet example of

reading some of the immediate press about it and people being like, eh, this kind of valorizes those guys. And being like, you guys, everybody jump off a bridge. Like, you completely misunderstand what this text is. And I think it's now clear 10 years on that what he was going for and what the idea was. And they've had to repeat it. Leo's had to repeat it too. Be like, this is not a hero story. 2016 Silence.

I love it. Yeah, speak on it, hero story right 2016 silence uh i love it yeah speak on it sean go ahead do you love it no i don't i still blame it for breaking up andrew garfield and emma stone so you know that's where i am strike one emma stone seems very happy right now so i'm not sure it was meant to be um i think it's a an amazing personal exploration of feelings I think he's a person who is legitimately emotionally confused about whether or not there is a higher power and the whole movie is about these men testing themselves in the face of a crisis of faith. Am I making it up that, who's the voice that Liam Neeson hears when he's like looking at the stone?

I don't remember who does it. Is it Harvey Keitel? No. I don't remember. It could be. I'm trying to remember that scene. I thought this movie was quite beautiful, but I've only watched it once.

Same. Okay. Sorry. You can make it yellow. Put it in your Scorsese top five. I probably would put it in my top 10. Okay. Sorry. You can make it yellow. You didn't even put it in your Scorsese top five. I probably would put it in my top ten. Okay. I don't know.

Well, it's not your top ten. It's our top ten. It's the Hall of Fame. Absolutely. No, I accede to that. Okay, so Silence is Red, The Irishman. Do you want to do an accounting before we hit our last film? We're in trouble.

Wolf of Wall Street 1, Departed 2 2 Goodfellas 3 After Hours 4 King of Comedy 5 Raging Bull 6 Taxi Driver 7 Last Waltz 8 Oh, so we have two more. We have two more but we also have

five movies that have been yellowed. We have five yellows. And we're not doing Killers of the Flower Moon is not available. Not eligible at the moment. Yeah.

I think that's going to be an interesting conversation about whether or not it belongs in. Are you two doing the we're not telling. Not eligible at the moment. Yeah. I think that's going to be an interesting conversation about whether or not it belongs in. Are you two doing the we're not telling each other what we think thing? Yes, we are.

That's really smart. We haven't talked about it at all. Are you going to be able to see it again before? You know, I don't know. I don't either. I'd like to. And I would really like to

if anyone from Apple is still listening at this point. But it was like a full day commitment. It's a very long film. I like The Irishman a lot. I love The Irishman. I'm not sure I like it more than some of these other movies

that are yellow right now. So let's make it yellow. Okay. All right, we'll just make it auto yellow. And then No Direction to Home is also yellow. Yes. Okay. Okay.

So I'll list off, well, I'll list off all the yellows for the listeners right now. Yes. So. Okay. Okay. So I'll list off, well, I'll list off all the yellows for the listeners right now. Mean Streets, Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore, The Color of Money, The Age of Innocence, Casino,

The Irishman, and No Direction Home from Bob Dylan. Two, four, six, seven yellows. Two spots.

Two spots. Why don't you just tell me what you want to do? Why are you putting me on the spot? Because then you just get to say no or everyone gets to yell at me? This is the bad faith argument. I've merely given you the power to communicate your truth. Well, my truth is, once again, as I said to you a little bit rudely about silence, it's not your top ten.

It's the collective Hall of Fame. And I said red. So, I'm also trying to be honest about that. And I, I would like

to make a case for the Irishman. Which I think is amazing and also does that thing both like, I guess,

in list making to be nerdy, but in terms of his career and the Scorsese project of reflecting like his own career and what's come before and is like a very powerful meditation on not just like the end and everything that came up in Zach's piece and that is clearly on his mind but like the movies that he's made and the issues that he has been investigating and how he felt about them when he was 30 or 40 versus, you know, much later in life. I think it's like very powerful.

So, and you know, we're not considering Killers of the Flower Moon, so I like having the end cap, but that to me is an easier case to make them being like, I think that we should put Age of Innocence before Color of Money or Casino. You know, it's like those three, like we should probably just disqualify all three because like each one of them is, you know. Middle period. Like personal favorite. Right, right, right, right.

And like personally excellent. Right. Would you say in that formulation that Age of Innocence is your personal favorite, Color of Money is yours, and Casino is mine? Probably. Like probably? And then we're canceling those out for that reason? I see that.

I guess like I would willingly take Color of Money out of the running here because I just think it's probably more of a, it's more of like a personal like passion project than it is like i can't make the argument that color of money is in fact like this superior martin scorsese movie that belongs like in this raft of ted movies i do think we have to pick one from mean streets or alice doesn't live here anymore so so that if we did that and we'd be eliminating uh no direction home as well then we would have to i think that's actually kind of an interesting debate about what matters more

at that stage. Because you're saying Irishman is like, that's the denouement, right? That's the one that's like end of life. So if we did Irishman Green, we have one more slot

and then it's basically between Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore and Mean Streets? Yes. Yeah. I think Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore is a better movie

but less important probably agree with that so how do you make that that call I don't know that's a really good that's a really good question he's more confident

it's a bigger hit but it's it has not lived on in the way that Mean Streets has Mean Streets is still a core text for a lot of people including the Elder Knocks.

Yeah. Are people going to lose their minds if Casino's not in? Definitely, yes. I mean... That's like a very online movie. Well, we gave them... You afraid of the mob? We gave them After Hours, Goodfellas, Departed, and Wolf of Wall Street.

You know? Like, if anything, the case for Alice doesn't live here anymore is that the rest of our list is too normcore. You know what I mean? We don't have any Zags. I kind of like that. I like the Zag. I would say the two kind of boldest moves are King of Comedy and After Hours as no doubters.

Well, you guys did After Hours as a no doubter. Yeah. And that's fine. I sat through most of the Ted Lasso episode like everybody else I understand the profound you know influence is there a Ted Lasso episode

about after hours the coaching coach has like an after hours spirit what the fuck but listen why do you watch Ted Lasso I quit

you don't watch so many good shows but you watch Ted Lasso did you ever watch Linus no Zach watched all of it without me I'm aware because he loves you, you know? I'm aware.

No, I quit. But... Are you pro or anti military industrial complex? When you think, when you really think about it.

Yeah. You know how Knox is really into flags? I do, yeah. Yeah, it's like, it's getting dicey

in terms of just like every single American flag that we see and Knox like just fucking loses. Yeah, it's like, it's getting dicey in terms of just like every single American flag that we see and Max like just fucking loses his mind and it's just because he likes things like flying in the sky,

you know, also likes Titans. Until he discovers Confederate statues. I know, but I'm just like, he just goes absolutely nuts for every American flag and I'm like,

at some point we're gonna have to have a talk. Nope. These colors don't run. i think it's great i think it's an amazing passion yes i mean and he can find them anywhere but it's also like now i'm like flag pilled and every time i'm driving even without him and i see a giant flag and i'm like no i'm just like oh a flag but i have like the you know you know where you gotta take him where the united nations oh wow that is the ultimate i thought you were gonna say the zoo they do have a lot of flags in the zoo and not

just american flags just different color when you're in that rotunda there at the united nations and all the flags you can find them at like every airport but they're always like right next to a tsa machine and so then he just like makes a hard run like for the wrong side of security just to try to be near the flag and i'm just like fuck has he seen the benjamin franklin parkway in philadelphia i was just about to ask down there no but maybe this year yeah okay um we've gotten no further in our well i was asked about the military industrial complex and i had some thoughts their primary uh duty there is not flags just putting it out there i know but you you understand how i got from a to b it's providing the very blanket

of freedom under which we sleep and i would never question the matter in which uh it's provided to me so i like i don't know i look at this and i'm like this is like pretty basic and that's okay is the move is the is the move taking king of comedy and after hours off putting age of innocence and casino in and choosing mean streets doesn't feel very real to us yeah feel true also like taking king of comedy out seems really stupid that movie is incredible that is no other movie that we're talking about is not incredible. I know. But like, I don't know. Just because the Letterboxd kids like that, you know, have reclaimed that one.

Reclaimed which one? King of Comedy. I'm not reflecting on anybody else's taste per se. It's more like Age of Innocence, I think, lives in the same world as King of Comedy and After Hours. Which is a movie that was sort of like softly received upon arrival. Right. And then over time has really become a signature film for real fans of Scorsese's. So to include one but not the other,

and you know, Age of Innocence is not one of my favorites personally, but I acknowledge it's a great work. Well, sure. But I thought including After Hours and not Age of Innocence just because like you two are on this podcast and I'm here and that's OK. We've been here before. We've survived. And I love you. And I love you both.

Do you like after hours? It's so funny because I was Zach and I were talking about this last night and prepper and I was like, I just, you know, there's going to be like 45 minutes on after hours. And then Zach was like, I really love after hours. And I was like, yeah, I know. I just you know there's gonna be like 45 minutes on After Hours and then Zach was like I really love After Hours and I was like yeah I know I know buddy you know

and I love all of you so it's fine but you know that's East Coast you know yeah After Hours that's what it's like

you wouldn't know Georgia it's not the same okay it's not that's true you know New York had changed

by the time you got there you know thanks so much you missed the real New York had changed by the time you got there you know thanks so much you missed the real New York it was all full of city banks and fucking Dwayne Reeds back then

I used to you just have wild nights with female sculptors sculptresses sculptresses yes she's a sculptress it's an incredible line

I fucking love that movie fuck what are we gonna do I've lost the thread here of what we're arguing That's an incredible line. I fucking love that movie. Fuck. What are we going to do? I've lost the thread here of what we're arguing. Do you have to pee again? No, I just kind of... I don't feel strongly enough.

I love after hours. Do you have to have like any medication administered at the dentist? I'll be going under for five days. When you come out, you'll be the creator. How do you do on laughing gas?

Never been on it. Really? Yeah. I actually had my wisdom teeth removed with just local anesthetic. What? That's a true story. What the fuck? Why?

I don't know. I think I was like, I think I can handle it. And then there was a man with a wrench in my mouth pulling teeth out of it. And I was like, this is different. Didn't hurt, but it was traumatizing. What the? It's true. How do you do on?

I'm great. I like, yeah, all anesthesia. Well, and all anesthesia. Yeah. I could just get really goofy. Yeah. All right.

So basically what we've come down to is the fact that Amanda. Are you accepting the Irishman? Yeah. Okay. So the Irishman is green. So now with the remaining five films, we have to choose one.

From Age of Innocence, Casino, Color of Money, Mean Streets, Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore. My podcast hosting brain says Mean Streets is the pick because that's the movie that announces him as a big American filmmaker. I don't think Mean Streets is better than Casino.

Me either. I don't think it'sets is better than Casino. Me either. I don't think it's better than The Color of Money or Age of Innocence. So, I don't know what to do. So then now you're positioning Mean Streets as an American graffiti situation and we're doing Harrison Ford all over again. Oh yeah. Yeah. And I think we all regret that.

I regret nothing. I regret it. I regret it as well. Every controversial piece of content I've made has been a win. Just keep people talking. It's been a dub. Yep. So what does your heart tell you of those five? My personal heart or what's good for this?

You only have one heart. I have but one heart. She kind of talked me into not being basic and having a curveball and doing Alice. Is that what you're suggesting? Yeah, but we could also put Casino and Age of Innocence or Color of Money and Age of Innocence back in and take something out. What would we take out? I don't know.

I think we're past that. Okay. I don't think we can take out Taxi Driver, Raging Bull. You guys love King of Comedy more than I do, but you love it deeply. After Hours, Goodfellas.

It's fine. It's in. Yeah. I mean, you want to put Casino in? I'm okay with that. It feels strange to do Casino,

Goodfellas, and The Irishman. But I guess it doesn't. I mean, he is who he is. When the listeners of this show, generations from now, visit the big picture site, the museum, not unlike the Tulsa Museum where Bob Dylan is. Where will it be?

In a crater on the moon. Where me and all my rats have moved. I was thinking about, I was genuinely thinking about putting a bid in on Mar-a-Lago. I feel like, we could just get like a wing there. That would be a good place for it.

You and Byron Allen are going to go in halves on that? And they visit and they say, what are the 10 movies to remember Martin Scorsese by I don't think After Hours is going to be one of them

listen you did Automatic Green on it yeah well sometimes you gotta flex power we've done so much advocacy for After Hours and Color of Money that I don't necessarily feel like

we need it validated by the Martin Scorsese Hall of Fame any more so than Pete Rose needs Cooperstown you know what I mean? What if we took out... We know the record. You know?

This is classic Philly bullshit. Just repping for Pete Rose here, even though we know he's an absolute crook. Charlie Hustle. That would be like if... But After Hours is not Pete Rose in this analogy because it did not get the shot. It did not put up the numbers.

It did not have the stats at the time. Take out after hours. What are the two you're putting in? Tell me right now. Show me balance. Show me grace. It's Alice and it's Casino. So then, Bobby, can you do that briefly on the document?

I'm a visual learner. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're really running out of time here, my friends. You know what? You're going to save some time on the document. I'm a visual learner. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're really running out of time here, my friends. You know what? You're going to save some time on anesthesia, so it'll be okay.

Yeah, seriously. Do you get to watch Netflix at the dentist? There's no TVs. I can listen to a podcast. Okay. You know they do that now? I do. In fact, my two-year-old daughter

was at the dentist yesterday and watched Mickey Mouse's Clubhouse. Business idea for you. Blu-ray dentist. Curated by you. I'm getting some really strong positive feedback on Cinema Law, just so you know, our new law firm in which we adjudicate the case. Is that in? It's in the most recent episode. I'll hear it on the way home. Think about Cinema Law as the daughter of lawyers and tell me if you think we have a business model in place. It's basically like Better Call Saul, but for like James Cameron.

But really like for characters in movies. Yeah. Okay. You know, it's like, are the Navi racist or are they an accurate representation of an othered people? Okay. And in what court are you going to be adjudicating this? Every case will be tried at the Hague. Okay, so we have Alice doesn't live here anymore.

I just want to keep, I want to give impromptu press conferences at LA City Hall. They're trying to throw the book at him, but we won't let them. And it's like Ryan Gosling's character from La La Land. I'm not even kidding. This is a really good idea. It should exploit.

Now this man didn't invent jazz, but he perfected it. You say take out after hours put in casino and Alice doesn't live here anymore. That isn't what I would do,

but I would accept it. I accept it too. I think it's just interesting enough, you know? Okay. That's it. I'm going to read through the films. Oh, man. Alice doesn't live here anymore.

Taxi driver. The last waltz. Raging bull. The king of comedy. Goodfellas. Casino. The departed. The wolf of Wall Street.

And the Irishman. I don't feel great about leaving out Mean Streets, even though I think Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore is better. Do you want to flip them? I don't know. This isn't actually a real thing. This is a completely invented concept. What's really interesting is,

you made a joke about the sight and sound poll earlier, but aren't we also talking about the evolving nature of Scorsese studies? We don't have to be married to the doctrine that says Mean Streets has to go. You know what? You're right. Alice doesn't live here anymore. It can be his entry from his early career. Okay. I accept. You feel okay? Yeah, I do.

I think we'll have to re-adjudicate this when we discuss Killers of the Flower Moon yeah I think so I think it's interesting that we were so high on the 80s and wound up essentially putting

King of Comedy there but that's okay by me doesn't sound like it is but I'll I'll choose to believe you but this is the difference between creating

a Hall of Fame and having a personal top five that's why you do all these different kinds of episodes I mean this is pretty well spread out over his career we've got three from the 70s but two features from the 70s two features from the 80s two features from the 90s the departed and then two features from the most recent decade i got an idea yeah why don't

we take out alice doesn't live here anymore and put in the pilot for the show vinyl neither that or boardwalk Empire are particularly remarkable if they're not they're not but vinyl is good a vinyl was was cool yeah it was cool I it wasn't that good

okay yeah this concludes this episode I want to thank you both Bobby I want to thank you for your work as the producer CR are you going to see The Exorcist Believer

yeah you going to join me for a pod oh sure yeah love to okay are you going to see it

I thought I was like on like out of the mix for a while I think that's your last one you've got one more yeah that's your last one

and then you don't have to go to the movies anymore because we've been doing the work she's exactly right it'll leave you more time to prepare your defense for jk simmons's character i'm not gonna see it by myself maybe you should go together teach in this country i've already seen it right so you're gonna see it this weekend see what the exorcist believer yeah it's not Oh. No. Okay. You'll have to find a screening.

Or we can flip episodes, which we can discuss. Yeah. I was going to say, how's Chris going to see it then? I forwarded him an invite to a screening. Okay. When is it? I don't think it's necessary to share on this pod. Okay.

When is it? Should I give the address? The location? Is the address within an hour of my home? All viewings of the exorcist happen in the mind of the spirit. Oh, okay. Okay? So just keep that in mind.

Does that mean that Satan is real or not real? Well, perhaps an opportunity to re-discuss that very issue. Oh, that's a great chance. We'll have a rich discussion about that. Now, that's more of a demon. Oh, that's right. But it's like Satan's handmaiden right i believe so yeah i think they're up for various interpretations nevertheless i have to go to the dentist so thank you so much guys uh thank you for building this hall of fame one of the most legendary things we've ever done on the show

and we'll see you soon on the big picture Thank you.