The Big Picture - The Matt Damon Hall of Fame. Plus: The Anxious Wonder of ‘Dìdi.’

Episode Date: August 13, 2024

Sean and Amanda are joined by Ringer contributor Brian Raftery to discuss his miniseries about the Sony hack, running next week on the ‘Big Picture’ feed (1:00). Then, they discuss two recent releases—Sean Wang’s coming-of-age movie ‘Dìdi’ and the Matt Damon and Casey Affleck vehicle ‘The Instigators’ (14:00)—before launching themselves into the Matt Damon Hall of Fame (34:00). Finally, Sean is joined by Wang to discuss making ‘Dìdi,’ the path to his first feature at just 29 years old, the particular time period of the movie, and more (1:36:00). Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guests: Brian Raftery and Sean Wang Senior Producer: Bobby Wagner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up, guys? Your boy Johnny Bananas here. The Challenge Season 40 Battle of the Eras is finally upon us. I'll be covering every episode with all your favorite challengers on my podcast, Death Taxes and Bananas, on the Ringer Reality TV podcast feed, and on the brand new Ringer Reality TV YouTube channel, where you can find full video episodes all season long. So buckle up, come along with me as we see who will be crowned winner of the Challenge Season 40 Battle of the Eras. Follow Ringer Reality TV on Spotify and subscribe

to us on YouTube. Get groceries delivered across the GTA from Real Canadian Superstore with PC Express. Shop online for super prices and super savings. Try it today and get up to $75 in PC Optimum Points. Visit superstore.ca to get started. I'm Sean Fennessy. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about Matt Damon, among other things. Later in the show. And now, Matt Damon.

Matt, thanks for coming in. Oh, thanks so much. I'll do my best Boston accent, which is not good at all. We have two guests on the show, not just the spirit of Matt Damon, but later in the show, I'll have a conversation with Sean Wong,

29-year-old director of one of my favorite movies of the year, D.D., A Real Wonderkin. It puts us to shame, us oldsters. I didn't know he was 29. He's 29. I really liked that movie, but now I'm just like, oh. It's super annoying.

Honestly, he's the future of Hollywood he's a really nice guy really smart kid can't believe I called him a kid it's just crazy you should see Didi we'll talk about it

a little bit later in the show but we have another guest here with us old friend Brian Raftery is here hi Brian hey how are you

also 29 29 congratulations happy birthday for the 15th consecutive year very exciting for you you're hosting a new show I am

starting this year what's the show it is about the Sony hack. It's called the Hollywood hack and it's about this crazy thing that happened 10 years ago that we have all completely forgotten about that was like this global, cultural entertainment juggernaut

milestone of a moment that because it happened in the early 2010s, which is the lost moment of time for all of us, has kind of gotten lost to history. But it's this wild thing where these hackers broke into Sony Pictures servers and wound up basically completely throwing off the release of this movie called The Interview with Seth Rogen and James Franco, someone else we have resigned to the early 2010s. And it was all brought on apparently by North Korea.

So it's a wild kind of story looking back at this crazy event that happened and sort of the impact it had on Hollywood in the years ahead. So when you were pitching ideas for the next series after Do We Get to Win This Time? Great show. It aired last year.

You mentioned that we've forgotten about this, which I think is right. Like, why, both of you guys, I'm curious, like, why you think that this has kind of receded given the magnitude and how much it hit Hollywood? I mean, I think some of it is kind of logistical and practical.

It was a very confusing event. It played out in 2014 between Thanksgiving and Christmas. Really, it was kind of ordered by these two big holidays where people were paying attention to other stuff. But also, I think it was just so unsolved for a while where it was so vague. Like, okay, did North Korea hack Sony? Okay, are the theaters really under threat okay are we really like is this Seth Rogen James Franco movie worth you know possibly going into a theater and getting harmed to see on Christmas Day and then I think I but I also think that frankly like I really do think the early 2010s it's like there is something happened in

2016 that I feel kind of was a dividing line between that decade and there's a lot of stuff in the early 2010s I'm like huh oh yeah I'm like oh yeah obama was still president back then it's like it's it's a it's kind of a lost time it is also so i got to work on this show with brian which was a delight oh thanks um it is it's only 10 years ago but the technology is like distinctly different like oh yeah it's like primarily emails that are at the center of what's going on here and and and what are most memorable and and really funny um uh there's there's a lot of them in this show and then some powerpoint leaks and like we had social media but like not the way that we do now and not the way that we digest it so we talk a lot about blogs you know and like the the blog coverage so it is it's a relic of the internet 10 years ago

for better and and also for worse yeah i think so i don't think things have gotten better but they're different now yeah yeah and it is like weird too that like that kind of middle era of like digital publishing like of gawker and defamer and jezebel they're all either gone or very different now and they and that and like the daily beast since they were all kind of driving a lot of this story um and again like you have to like some of these stories are just like you have to go down the web archive to find them because some of these sites are totally gone and like it's only 10 years ago so this story i mentioned it to a couple people who work in hollywood and and it kind of got their their haunches up they got a little bit nervous because i think if you work in the business you feel like there was a kind of like a violation that transpired here, you know, not just the revelation of the information, but

the way that the information was discussed and communicated in the media, which is something that you explore in the show. I'm curious for you, like how you thought about what to include and not include in this discussion versus what we decided to include and not include in the media 10 years ago. Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, there were certainly things that were reported back then that were pulled out of the hack because they found, you know, hundreds of thousands of documents. They found all these personal emails and like, God forbid, like anyone goes through my emails, which are, I don't think damaging anyway, but like deeply, deeply stupid, like just going back years and years. I mean, there is a whole, there was a whole subplot about this idea at Sony to

make an ALF movie. And there's a lot of very funny emails about ALF. And I was like, was a whole subplot about this idea at Sony to make an ALF movie. And there's a lot of very funny emails about ALF. And I was like, wait a minute. I have definitely sent stupid ALF-related emails to friends. And I found some from like 2003. I'm like, oh, I don't want these again. These are so corny. Can I just say in defense of those ALF emails, though?

Like, I had forgotten them. And then they're mostly written by Amy Pascal in the middle of the night. Just being like, I don't understand the world of ALF. Right. Like, what are the stakes? Yeah. Like, he understands, like, anyway, I have thought about that quote,

which is after every bad movie I have seen since we reread it, like, she was right, you know? Oh, she's right, yeah. We need the internal logic of Alf. Oh, yeah, yeah. In all of our movies. But, you know, but it's one of those things. Those emails were private conversations between her and the creative team,

and they're not supposed to get out. And again, a lot of the Sony stuff that hacked that made news was kind of these racially charged emails or things that were very offensive or hurtful. But a lot of it's just kind of like the basic kind of behind the scenes creative process, like, I don't like that. I mean,

stuff that if all of us have emails like that, I mean, all of us have like kind of complained about coworkers or like rolled our eyes or like the worst thing to do is like the number of times I've forwarded an email else and just wrote UGG at the top. I'm like, that to me is like super embarrassed, like that's super embarrassing and damaging, but we were trying to keep it to things that were, that were reported at the time. And that felt like they were actually relevant to the industry of like how movies get made, how movies don't get made. Um, but some of the revelations, like you can't, they were out there, they're public. If you're going to cover this

story, you've got to kind of go back into what happened in 2014. Was it hard to report? Because some people feel very uncomfortable with this whole story. Yeah. So I think, I mean, I spoke to a lot of really wonderful and very forthright and very thoughtful Sony employees. And many of them were on background. I mean, many of them I would have long conversations. I had a lot of, there were a lot of people I talked to multiple times trying to convince them to come on the show. And they had very valid reasons for not wanting to. But there were others who did come on. And I think some of them said to me they felt this story had been a little forgotten.

And a lot of the story is kind of told from their perspective of being at Sony at the time, working on this giant lot. And all of a sudden, you can't even cross the lot to go get something to eat without wondering if you're going to bump into someone who has just had something leaked. Or maybe you said something about it and you don't know if they read it or not. It's really like, it's a really kind of uncomfortable mindset to be in for that, especially when there's also threats coming from North Korea at the same time. One thing I was curious about for both of you guys, since I wasn't as intimately working on this. So we know that the story obviously impacted cybersecurity and impacted our ideas about privacy. It impacted even just the way that

like we communicate about public figures in private, which is an interesting strain of this discussion. Maybe how we talk about our president, for example. What do you think the story really means to or represents for movies and the movie industry? I mean, I think as someone who grew up in a house where we talked about Hollywood a lot and I was very, I grew up nowhere near the industry and I always had this very unblinkered view of show business, which was naive and stupid even into my thirties.

I do think there was a little bit of the Sony hack that was kind of like, like, Oh, this is just another business where like some people are great. Some people are kind of shitty and they all kind of are, you know, there's a lot of competition and backstabbing and stuff like that. So it did kind of in a very dumb way,

kind of like probably was the last kind of moment of like, Oh, Hollywood is not like quote unquote Hollywood. Just like us. Yeah. Just like us. Yeah. I mean,

it really, it did kind of feel like that. And in the years afterward, there was a lot of other thing, you know, movements within Hollywood to really kind of looking at itself and saying, we, we have issues with this and that,

and we need to make some changes for that. I mean, I also, but I also feel like it changed movies in terms of, like, what kind of movies get made now. I mean, that to me is a big part. We talked about this. I was going to say, this is your bright conclusion to the show, so I don't want to spoil it. But, like, that's, it's, yeah.

I think it's, I mean, I do think that, like, after going through all this with an R-rated movie, I mean, who knows, maybe we would not be getting controversial R-rated comedies in 2024 anyway. I mean, R-rated comedies are in trouble for a lot of reasons, but like, it really is striking to me that like, at one point we were sitting there thinking like, how many really provocative, big budget, big studio, big star movies have been made in the last five, 10 years? And especially the last five years. And it's, it's kind of a short list. I mean, Sony made Zero Dark Thirty. They made like, they made like Moneyball. They made Social Network, not all of them controversial, but they made it's kind of a short list i mean sony made zero dark 30 they made like they made like money ball they made social network not all them controversial but they made like

big kind of grown-up r movies and now it's like i was like or at two is that like the most provocative like do we have to get rudy giuliani drunk in a in a hotel room to get like a provocative studio movie at this point well all three of those movies you just mentioned are all stories about events that transpired like real events as opposed to invention and that's like a part of the discussion about the interview too yeah would this have would this not have happened if this were a movie about fake dictator x rather than it being about a real person too i mean in talking to the creatives who worked on the movie do they have regrets are they proud of the movie like it's a movie that's been

totally memory hold like all we know about it in our culture at large is that the hack happened, right? Yeah. I mean, I do think there's a sense of among people I spoke to that like, you know, first of all, within Sony, there were some people, especially by the end, some employees who were not involved with the movie who told me on background. You know, they were like, we didn't. Why are we doing this movie? There was some at the end. I think there was some kind of like pushback from people within Sony. But I think also like they made this movie about Kim Jong-un and he's a real

figure and they had a chance not to. And honestly, I don't think the movie would have any much as much bite if it was a made up character. I mean, like I, it's a, it's a very daring thing.

And when you think about on paper, like you're going to make a movie about blowing up a real world leader, like, which we would not do now for a million other reasons. But, um, I don't know if it would have quite as much punch back in 2014 if it had been a fake, you know, dictator. Have you seen the interview? I don't think I've ever seen it in full. I realized that editing this because, I mean, I think if you remember one of my notes for the last episode was just a little bit like the the same feeling that many of the employees and what

kind of seemed everyone at the sony studio was like so so what is this movie and how did this happen and i was like can can someone talk me through what the powerpoint was that was like yeah we're gonna go for this and to me that was remarkable just because as brian said now everything is you know tested and thought and planned and you know aligned with release dates within an inch of its life and even 10 years ago when we thought it was you know all very corporate there was at least a little bit more looseness yeah um but yeah I've seen clips but it it did really memory hole it as you said so it was hard to hard to see and then at some point i was like i don't i don't know if i need to sit sit through all of it it's weird

because the conclusion i haven't seen in a long time but i did eventually watch it and the conclusion that i came to at the end of it was one this was definitely not worth it but two um it's just sort of a mildly diverting like b or c tier Seth Rogen comedy. And so it's, if it were, I don't know, super bad or something where you're like, this is a generational comedy and we all love it. It almost had to be an ultimately irrelevant movie to have had such a

seismic impact on the culture at large. I don't know if you had a similar conclusion. I think it's like, I do really enjoy the audaciousness of the movie and there's some really funny stuff in it. And I, the thing is like, it um it's it is the kind of movie that like often the movies that wind up or the art that winds up becoming the stuff we have to defend is not always like the it's not like

it's like if this was a social network we'd all be like we have to fight pushback but like you know do any of us think that band in the usa by two live crew was like worth bruce springsteen like giving us? You know what I mean? Like it's, I mean, it's not even the best 2 Live Crew song. Actually, I like that one more than most. But that's the kind of thing. Like sometimes the art that we have to kind of like champion and in some way that has to be out there and we have to kind of defend is not always what we would choose to watch on a Tuesday night at 9 o'clock.

This is why Amanda goes to the wall for Sweet Home Alabama every week on this show. Any like lingering thoughts? Anything you couldn't say or any ideas you couldn't explore in this? Do you want to just do Jump Around? Yeah, there's some music cues. There was a Sony dance part. There was a Sony holiday party where

they played Jump Around that I really wanted to be able to include in the show, but music rights are music rights. It was elegantly included in the show as well. I mean, there is, look, the ALF. We did use some of the ALF emails. We did not use all the ALF movie emails. I did find that delightful, but look, also I sympathize with the people who are doing this creative work over email and like, like we've all worked on projects where we're putting in Slack, like an incredibly goofy note or something that just sounds weird. And out of context, you would think, who are these crazy people playing this thing together? But,

you know, you have to, you know, the creative process is a lot of ridiculous late night emails or slacks or texts, or if you're smart, phone calls back and forth sometimes. Brian, August 19th,

it's going to be on the feed, three episodes. You've covered now a, a international conflict and cyber terrorism. Like what are you, what are you going to take on next in the world of Hollywood? You know, I really want to get this ALF movie made, so I'm actually going to become an independent producer,

much like Amy Pascal. Like, the more I talk about it, I really think that, you know, we go into Willie's story for the ALF heads out there. It's great IP. You can't deny it. It's great IP. Thanks, Brian.

You got it. Thank you. Okay, it's just me and you now we can have a real conversation yeah tom cruise at the olympics so when was this spoiled for you uh when it was happening i immediately started getting tweets and i was like i should probably turn this on you didn't know i wasn't watching live no no well i knew he was gonna do something like a week ago and ago. And he's been there for what feels like nine years. So he's like basically a resident of the UK at this point because they're just either filming Mission Impossible or waiting to fix the submarines. That's right.

But so it is true that he like parachuted over and has been at every event. So when did you become aware? Were you watching live? No, I was not watching live because it was the middle of I was with you. I think we had a nice like kids date on sunday and then i actually waited until uh this morning to watch with my son who really likes uh the eiffel tower boats flags and fireworks okay and so i thought the closing ceremonies would be a interesting mix for him loved it and

we told him we were waiting for tom cruise so he just kept saying where's tom cruise for like an hour which was which was really great content he's just like me for real yeah that's all i want to know too uh i thought this was uh predictable but nice sure and uh tom let me proffer a theory yeah i feel like tom's kind of in his grandfather era. Okay. I feel like he's trying to do a thing where he- How do you feel about that? Because you're-

I don't want him to live forever and, you know, be eternally brown haired and muscular. Like, I would like to see some evolution from him, as you know. And I feel like he's getting more and more comfortable with this really long hair. You know, his grin is- We're starting to see some wrinkles for real. You know, he seems more like a human. I mean, sort of,

but we also saw like a million shots of his biceps as he like put up the fake Olympic rings on the Hollywood sign. But even his version of being yoked now is dad yoked. It's no longer. And Bobby can attest to this. I mean, he is not in his like far and away era

where he's just knocking dudes out. And it's like when he dove into the stadium, he was very clearly wearing wires. He did not. Well, I mean, I guess with that many people, you can't just be skydiving. That would be sick if he just jumped and landed on his feet. Well, then he did jump out of a plane again. Did McQuarrie shoot that? Do we have confirmation?

I haven't spoken to Christopher McQuarrie. Well, okay. I've been Googling it, but it was very beautiful wherever he was skydiving and he like did some waving for the camera and i kept saying to knox only tom cruise can do this yeah i don't want too much inspiration there but you know so the real life stuff had a little bit more of a safety pad there was some care there But I mean, he still did the motorcycle around Paris with no helmet. Though he is a denizen of Europe,

obviously Tom Cruise is being seen as this bridge figure to bring the Olympics to Los Angeles. He brought the Olympic flag to Los Angeles. How do you feel about the Hollywood sign with the Olympic symbol? I mean, so was it CGI'd? They didn't actually do that,RL, right? Uh, can either confirm or deny. Okay. I can't really either, but I, I didn't, I thought it looked fine in the

moment and all the screenshots on Twitter looked like garbage. Okay. Um, thanks for your virtuosity criticism as always. Well, listen, I was just kind of like moving in the moment, but as like a permanent installation piece, I don't know. We could work, we could work on the quality. Uh, I honestly thought the red hot chili peppers rocked and I was like, I don't know. We could work on the quality. I honestly thought the Red Hot Chili Peppers rocked. And I was like, why didn't they get more people to the concert?

I would love to be there. Saw a tweet. I hate when this happens when I see a tweet and it makes me mad. But this did actually happen that said, Red Hot Chili Peppers,

they must clearly be the worst band of all time. Sir, please. Children. Listen to one other song than a Red Hot Chili Peppers song. Gather round. I like the Chili Peppers song children gather gather round I like the Chili Peppers

I think they're good Flea was going for it yeah of course LA resident LA legend and music educator here that's right but again

there were like 12 people at that concert yes and also did they like treat the water in Venice Beach to make it look bluer really interesting question

or did they color correct afterwards probably that sounds rather elaborate for this very short moment on the Olympic broadcast sure but it's the Olympics Hmm. Really interesting question. Or did they color correct afterwards, probably? That sounds rather elaborate for this very short moment on the Olympic broadcast. Sure, but it's the Olympics. You think they're trying to get more people excited about the Olympics by dyeing the water blue here in LA? Well, listen, that is just not how blue that water looks when you're there. Will you attend any events of the 2020 Olympics? Yeah, I think I'm going to be out of town.

Just meaning like you won't live here anymore? Oh, no, no. I don't know going to be out of town. Just meaning like you won't live here anymore? Oh, no, no. I don't know whether I'll live here anymore. But if I do live here, I find the prospect of all the crowds and the logistics quite overwhelming. Yeah. And I've already, you know, hosted an Olympics at the age of 12. Yes. And we saw how that went.

Thanks for your work there. Yeah. It was fun to go. And I don't think Max will be quite old enough. Like neither child will be. So I don't know. I'm going to watch it on TV. fun to go. And I, I don't think Max will be quite old enough. Like neither child will be. So I don't know. I'm going to, I'm going to watch it on TV. Got to say great TV production from NBC.

You know, this is like, they absolutely killed it. And like some things are just meant to be watched on a screen. And I really enjoyed it. Three years ago when the summer Olympics were happening, um, you know, during COVID after they'd been delayed for a year, even at the ringer, I was like, wow, the Olympics is over as a cultural event. Like, we can't get people interested in this event. And obviously, they've completely won it back this year. They did an amazing job with the broadcast. I'm sure that, like, Brian Curtis will talk about this on the Press Box this week, but really impressive. Anyway, let's go back to movies.

Okay. I did mention Dee Dee. I wanted to talk with you briefly about Dee Dee. I don't really want to spoil it for people because it's still expanding. It's in, I think, 200 theaters now. It was one of the breakout films at Sundance, which is where I first saw it. I believe it won the Audience Award there. And this is the first feature from Sean Wong, who we had talked about earlier in the year because Nine-Nine Waipo, his short film,

was nominated for Best Documentary Short at the Academy Awards. That was actually my favorite of the shorts. And this new film is a recent period piece. It's set in 2008. It's about a 13-year-old Taiwanese-American boy trying to figure out how to be alive in the world, how to talk to girls, how to make friends, how to communicate with his mom and his sister. It's a very traditional seeming coming of age story. What you think of dd it was lovely i mean it is it it is traditional or it rather it follows the genres like beats which is great

there's a reason the formula works and then but is made in like a very personal way um both to the Taiwanese American experience to I think like the mid-2000s experience the AIM experience I was like I can almost relate to this like I'm just close enough in age where I remember some of this you know I had the the sound of someone signing on and off on AOL instant messenger was like you know a real Bruce Madeline moment for me. But it is both so specific and also about a kid not really knowing how to do stuff and figuring it out. There were two things about it that I really, really appreciated. One, I think he obviously has one of those mousetrap brains where he can perfectly recall

experiences that he had 15, 20 years ago and was able to put them in. So the chats on instant messenger or the Facebook posts or that sense of looking at your MySpace top eight or the music or the clothing that you see in the movie. I mean, from my perspective, even though I was not 13 at this time, it felt bang on. Like it felt like you really nailed it. And that goes a long way because you want to buy into this world and then the other thing that he did and isaac wong is the actor who plays you know the semi-autobiographical version of sean um he lets that character make mistakes and then not fix them yeah like sit in his mistakes which is a very resonant thing i mean i certainly remember being a 13 year old boy and doing something i'm being like i wish i didn't do that and knowing

what the right thing to do would be to make it better and then not doing it. And it's a hard thing to let yourself do when you're a creative person and you're portraying something. And he does it very effortlessly. I thought the movie was very fun, very funny. Also a really good mixed media movie,

you know, where like looking at screens can be on cinematic, but it feels like native to the language of these people and the movie itself. Yeah, it does also for everything that he doesn't. He doesn't fix anything, but you do also leave with a feeling like it's it's probably going to be OK. Yeah, you know, like it's so it's very warm hearted, even as you're like, oh, my God, kid, don't just don't do that. What are you doing? Don't do that. Which is a very, very teenage feeling.

Very much. Also, you know, Joan Chen, wonderful actress, plays Sean's mother, or the character Chris's mother in the film. Joan Chen, probably best known for Twin Peaks, a number of other things in the 90s, who really has not been seen much in American movies in the last 15, 20 years. And this is considered a big comeback for her.

She's really, really good in this movie. Very familiar. I had a very similar relationship to my mom at this time in my life, as you might imagine. So I really appreciated the way that they portrayed that too. I did also, but it was a little bit alarming because I remembered all of the references and I really related

to the teen character, but the mom was coming on strong in my relatability context and I was like, oh my God, this is really, it happens so fast. Yeah.

You think you'll be that aggressively rejected by Knox? I mean, I'm sure, right? And I was like, I mean, it's basically happening now, you know? Sean said something really interesting when we were talking, which is that he was sort of that last generation who was not entirely raised online, that he was raised with the semblance of

the internet, but it wasn't necessarily the defining trait of his entire youth, which, you know, now I think about that with our kids and how there's no other way to be. There's no way to escape. I mean, I guess there's a way to escape, but you have to live in a commune. Like you can't not be overwhelmed by social media. And we were just talking with our friend Brian about his kids going to school and the idea of laptops and Chromebooks in school and everything. And those are, you know, what the Sean character or the Chris character in this movie is doing is like, this is on his off time, but he's on instant messenger. Now it's like, this is your school time. Your work time is defined by those things.

I feel like it's a fascinating snapshot of the end of an era as well. Okay, now I'm depressed again. Well, it's real. You know, it's real. I thought this was a really nice movie. Really lovely. If you have a chance to see it, go see it. I hope people do too.

Okay. So there was another movie. Another movie. Another big. Okay. So. There was another. Another movie. Another movie. Another big release. I guess. Was it? Over the weekend.

There was a movie. Which I assume listeners of this show will know exists. But perhaps they don't. It's called The Instigators. Right. It's the inspiration for our Matt Damon Hall of Fame. Which we'll be getting to very shortly. It's directed by Doug Liman.

Yeah. Who made The Bourne Identity. And Swingers. And Edge of Tomorrow. Mr. and Mrs. Smith. And Mr. and Mrs. Smith and a great many beloved Hollywood movies. It's starring Matt Damon and Casey Affleck, who has won an Academy Award for Best Actor.

Right. It's co-written by Casey Affleck. It's on the Apple TV Plus service. Are you a subscriber? I am. Okay. Because I can expense it. Do you like it?

Apple TV Plus? Yeah. I guess I watch something on it four times a year. Okay. Is that good? No. I mean, if you stay subscribed, sure. But that level of engagement is low.

I know, but that doesn't count because I subscribe to all these things for work. And so, you know, my user experience, um, I, something, I watched something on there, not for work four times a year. Okay.

Which for me is pretty, pretty high numbers. I mean, I'm still not done with presumed innocent. Like respectfully, that was a movie and it was really good as a movie and they are taking forever. I struggled with episodes five and six. And I just finished episode five.

But you're in the low, you're in the low point. It picks up. All of it is like, I'm sure it picks up and I want to know what happens just like I do in the movie. But it's like,

I mean, they literally took a great movie and stretched it out to like 45 episodes of Jake Gyllenhaal just doing wild shit. And you're like, well,

obviously you're just gonna be arrested sir like that is just another really abnormal thing to do the um a lot of people i believe have finished presumed innocent it seems to be one of the most engaged with shows they've ever put out they're at this interesting point chris and andy have been talking about this on the watch quite a bit in the last few months uh i talked with and on Friday about something that you and I also discussed, which is this decision to put Wolfs on the streaming service on September 27th after only one week in theaters.

This movie, The Instigator, only had a one week run in movie theaters before it went straight to the service. You know, on the movie side, Apple really favors A projects. They work with the highest level talent, writers, directors, stars. They work with the highest level of talent, writers, directors, stars. Their above the line stuff right now is,

you know, Scarlett Johansson and, you know, Matthew Vaughn and Matt Damon and Brad Pitt and really like the cream of the crop. Martin Scorsese. Martin Scorsese, of course. Ridley Scott and Joaquin Phoenix. I mean, just look at the movies that they've made. Even Ghosted, the terrible Chris Evans,

Ana de Armas movie, you know, another straight to streaming movie that doesn't feel like it even happened anymore. This movie, in addition to having all those boldface names, also has Hong Chao, Michael Stuhlbarg, Paul Walterhauser, Ving Rhames, Alfred Molina, Toby Jones, Jack Harlow, and Ron Perlman. Just an absolute lights out supporting cast

the kind of supporting cast that when me, Chris and Bill are doing a rewatchables about a movie where Kevin Costner plays a military guy in 1987 you're like

whoa that guy's in it too that guy's it has that feeling just say No Way Out it feels like No Way Out except then you watch the movie yeah and

well but that's not totally fair I mean it is mostly fair I've never seen a deeper two-star movie in my life I know but but also did you have a I had I did have fun yeah totally I watched it on Saturday night with my husband and we were chuckling and had a very nice time and then spent all of Sunday being like well why did they do this and why was it like this yeah and how did so many talented people come together? And they didn't even think about Paul Walter Hauser's, like, you know, what he would do

after he stepped out of the house or why he would give the hand a gun. You know, I would say it was not a neatly tied up movie. Again, I don't really I don't I'm personally not bothered by that kind of like those kinds of problems in a movie that is having fun. Like this is a movie that is obviously having a lot of fun. It's kind of like Trap, you know, like there's something very loose and winking about it. The movies, the comps that I wrote down,

this is a heist comedy, this movie, by the way. It's about two guys who attempt, or three guys who attempt to rob the mayor's safe on the night of an election. And it reminded me of Hot Rock. It reminded me of Logan Lucky. It reminded me of Bottle Rocket. You know, goofballs trying to get money.

That's really what the movie is. And Matt Damon, who loves to play dumb, and Casey Affleck, who loves to play annoyed, just play dumb and annoyed in interesting ways in this movie. And they're fun to be with. But you know, you get to the end of the movie and you're like, okay. I'll never think about that again. Unless I have to podcast about it.

I have major questions about basically all of the developments in the film. Yeah. And also... You want to float one? Sure. I mean, just memorize the combination to the safe if you're the mayor. You know? Good note. It's like eight numbers. Just memorize the combination to the safe if you're the mayor. Good note. It's like eight numbers.

I think if you have $100 million of illegally gained money, you can memorize eight numbers. Seems reasonable. Or just have someone else do it for you. Yeah, you're the mayor. Toby Jones is an award-winning actor. Give him something to do. Let him memorize eight numbers. He's not playing Toby Jones in the film just for the record

but it's like what else is he doing I mean he's actually very funny he's just like let it be shown that I cooperate I liked him at the end

he was great in the hostage I thought all of the so Hong Chow plays a therapist a VA therapist I think because Matt Damon's character is veteran

and it's Doug Liman's very funny about therapy see also the scenes in Mr. and Mrs. Smith and like the running joke about Hong Chao trying to make Matt Damon whole while he's doing ridiculous things I I was amused and Casey Affleck should also do comedy all the time I think he was I think he's very very funny in this movie bouncing off of Damon he's're really, really good together. Hong Chao and Matt Damon, this is a downsizing reunion.

I know. Thank you. Congratulations to me, the sole living appreciator of the film Downsizing. I don't think that's true. I have another friend. My friend Dan, who's listening to this. One other friend. Hi, Dan.

He loves Downsizing. Join me on Downsizing Island. I just want him to be credited. Real estate is so cheap. Yeah, he thinks it's Alexander Payne's masterpiece. Interest rates sub 3% here on Downsizing Island. You know, this is a completely negligible movie. It's definitely not bad.

There's way too much talent on the screen for it to be bad. It's interesting that Doug Liman, this is his second streaming movie of the year after his work in Roadhouse. That's also, by the way, when you and Andy were talking and you were trying to think of someone who recently had a movie that they made straight they made for streaming and then it went direct to streaming and they're big mad about it don't put in the newspaper that I'm mad that I have a streaming and it was Doug Lyman you're right yeah he was the one thank you for reminding us of that

uh Doug Lyman you know former guest of the show, somebody who I really enjoy talking with. Seems like he's in a little bit of a crisis mode in terms of his career. You know, he seems a little bit like he's really good at like making the movie okay. He's never had a movie for me where I was ever like, this is a disaster. Like he doesn't make disasters, even though you hear stories about his productions and they're disastrous. His ceiling is very high. you know, to me. Edge of Tomorrow is, that's a big personal favorite of mine. Right. But this is just, it's like, it's a half-baked movie.

Completely. I mean, and also some of the worst fires, CGI fire I've ever seen in my entire life. Yeah, yeah. The explosions. Is that how gas works as an element? Well, it sounds like you didn't prepare for Science Corner today. Well, okay. And let's go.anda science corner okay hit the hit the things welcome to amanda dobbins's science corner

so the first one where they're just in that nice man's home, the bar owner's home. And it seems like Casey Affleck sees an opportunity to cut the gas line and has a plan. So I at least understood where that was going. The second one, was I looking at my phone when he set it up or did they just do it off camera? Couldn't tell you. And then the third one, so Matt Damon lights a gas pipe in the subway, which then has the effect of turning off all the power in the mayoral building. Yeah, sure. Though I think it's maybe also a federal building because it becomes a federal crime per Toby Jones.

But there's no fire anywhere i guess eventually it explodes whenever i'm sitting with you during one of these segments i feel like i'm with carl sagan you know it's not so much that you're a scientist it's that you're a philosopher of science well i'm just like i i i don't think that there's that level of lag time between ignition and explosion. You know, I have been watching a lot of space films recently. See, apples fly me to the moon. Yeah. And the window is much more limited before disaster strikes.

Do you think we should make Merrick Garland aware of these issues in this film? Maybe he can do something about this it's like a really long time that they're there in the in the room in the house okay fine shall we talk about matt damon yeah love him matt damon is 53 years old and i can't believe we've never done his hall of fame i don't really know why that is i think we did do a top fives once upon a time. Yeah. But he might be... Well, I've made some notes about my thoughts on Matt Damon. Okay.

Shall I share them with you? Please. And tell me if you think I'm on to something or not. So, you know, born in Massachusetts, the legendary Massachusetts resident, dropped out of Harvard, went on to become a very successful actor. I think he's known for playing whip-smart underdogs,, working class hustlers, and squirrely connivers. What do you make of that? Yeah, I think

that that's true. He is like a pretty classic movie star, movie star, looks, charisma, like guy next door appeal. If the guy next door is also like the smartest guy in the group like absolutely crushes it in high school and college you know um who has turned towards character actors and character parts as he has aged but at the same time he's always like them he will he'll just like take a turn and play against type to be weird or to like wrong foot your idea of Matt Damon. I really enjoyed going back and looking at some of his movies or even just like little snatches of the movies because he's taken some real chances. Like, you know, I wrote down that he's like the last great regular white guy movie star that we have. You know, like most of our movie stars now are like Chris Pratt

and they're just like jacked, you know, and they seem like steroidal and inhuman or like Dwayne The Rock Johnson or, you know, there's guys that the figure of movie stardom, I think, has changed a bit with the onset of IP coming to dominate box office hits in Hollywood. So he's got kind of a stranglehold on that thing,

which is not to say it can't come back i think it might actually be coming back a little bit but at least for his generation glenn powell i think glenn powell's doing more of the cruise thing i think like glenn powell paul meskel there's like a couple of guys who are coming in who are like a little bit more regular like matt demon has done more varied work than tom hanks, but there is a similar, like you're rooting for his character almost all the time. And I think what makes Matt Damon different is that when he plays the roles against type and when he plays the villain, you actually do buy into it as opposed to Tom Hanks,

where you're like, why are you speaking in that accent in Elvis? But, but there is just kind of that like, oh, it's Matt Damon, you know? Yeah. Well, I think he can disappear though. I mean, that's the thing

that I find interesting about him. I don't know if he ever disappears. I think he's always playing with his type. But even the fact that he's like the cameo king, he understands it's like this strength of just Matt Damon showing up at some point in a movie. You know, I meant to ask you, so are the red roles, the cameos that you've identified? Amongst this list, I've identified all of the cameo roles he's taken on over the year.

And I did write that he is the king of cameos. So 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17. He's taken on 18 cameo roles in his career. What's a funny thing is that there were even like a couple recent ones where I'm like, oh, you know, both No Sudden Move and Drive Away Dolls

could argue, you could argue that those are cameos. Like the strength of those movies are built on a late stage. You're right. Matt Damon is in this movie. You're right. It's a little bit like,

what is the line between Cameo and Matt Damon doing the Matt Damon thing where he shows up and he's like, oh, it's Matt Damon and I didn't quite expect him to be here and he's not being like the guy next door that you're rooting for, but isn't that exciting?

So there's a consciousness to who he is always. And he's willing to have fun with it. And that he is like engaging with. That is really cool. I really love that too. I always think it's fun when he does that. It's weird that he's done it 20 times and I'm not annoyed by it.

He still has a knack for it. But you know, he has played, he's played many Southerners. He's played New Yorkers. He's played South Africans. He's played Asgardians, you know, like he has, he's played a lot of different types. He doesn't just stickians. You know, like he has. Yeah. He's played a lot of different types.

Right. He doesn't just stick to, you know, Will Hunting. That's not his only pitch. And starting pretty early in his career. Mm-hmm. Was like not doing

the Tom Cruise thing of like, I must be the hero or I must be on the right side of things from the very beginning. Is he? I know Matt and Ben are very important to you as an idea. Is he like, he's pretty close to your favorite, is he not?

I think he is. And you have to remember, I came up with the generation where it's like Matt versus Leo, right? And for a long time, those were the two white guy marquee movie stars of, I mean, Matt Damon's a bit older than me but of like my coming of age and at first it was goodwill hunting versus titanic and i was like goodwill hunting that's where it's at um you love a brainy boy yeah who's also like insanely hot i mean like

let's let's be real like what i mean matt damon is like looks so good in that movie. But then it did... I think I like the movies that Matt Damon picks more. And I think... Listen, Leo's Leo. Respect. I think Matt Damon makes more cry pleasers. Yeah. I think he makes more...

I don't want to say conventional entertainment. Well, he just works more also. He does. He's made a lot of movies. And so this is a tricky hall of fame. I actually didn't do the thing that I sometimes do where I say like, oh, what are like the 12 or so? Like going into this, I'm a little... We made a lot of movies. And so this is a tricky hall of fame. I actually didn't do the thing that I sometimes do where I say like, oh, what are like the 12 or so? Like going into this, I'm a little, we got a lot of movies to go through.

So maybe we should start getting into it. Any other kind of like last observations about him? Because I feel like he's pretty much still in a position of strength as a movie star, despite the instigators going straight to Apple TV+. He's pretty much puts out a studio movie every year and he's the star or adjacent to stardom in that movie. Right. And he's like the, what is he, the CFO of the Ben Affleck project?

Yes. Actors' Equity as well. Sure. I don't know which title he is. I mean, he's one of the executives. I mean, I think that's why The Instigators got made, too. It's clearly that they were just like Actors' Equity is trying to stack movies. And that seems to be what they're doing.

It's just, but he's kind of the no drama in the corner, just hanging out. He steps in there from time to time. I was reminded of a few gaffes that he made publicly. Yeah, the whole Stillwater situation and that interview, that was not ideal. And obviously, there was some Project Greenlight stuff that wasn't great. Listen, you know, I mean, it's not a not a perfect record, but he's he ostensibly works at the same office that Ben Affleck does that has a public parking structure. And he's not being photographed every day in the parking structure. It's Ben Affleck.

Interesting point. The thing about him is when you make when one of your first movies and maybe your most beloved movie is about how smart you are, anytime you do something not smart, you're going to get killed. You just got to have a consciousness about this. So Will Hunting. And that's a little bit of both their brands, right? Is that they can hang and you want to have 45 years with them. These are the smart, cool movie stars.

But also like they're going to show up at a deal book conference, you know? Oh my God, I love him so much our fellow Leo they're so complicated he's going you know what I did honestly during instigators

I did spend at least like two minutes thinking about being Mrs. Affleck mother of Ben and Casey and just like what that must be like to deal with like

this overwhelming motor mouth charm at all times but let's like look at you know just like you can't control them at some point you But let's like, look at, you know, just like you can't control them. At some point,

you just got to send them out into the world. I mean, they've, they've, they've had great success. Yeah. But it's, it must be a lot. I agree.

I agree. As you, as you look forward to a life as a mother. Yeah. Oh God, it's really complicated. Um, I'm happy for Matt Damon.

Uh, let's go through his career. Okay. It's crazy that he doesn't have like five movies where you're like, this is it's really complicated. I'm happy for Matt Damon. Let's go through his career. Okay. It's crazy that he doesn't have like five movies where you're like, this is a piece of junk that no one's ever seen. And he was the eighth guy standing in the corner right out of the shoot. He's in Mystic Pizza. Yeah. 1988.

He's a kid. Playing a guy named Steamer. Steamer Windsor. That was going to be Alice's name if she was a boy. But we went with Alice. It's a very small part in Mystic Pizza. It's obviously not going in the Hall of Fame. But he is a really memorable jackass.

Sort of like in the James Spader school of 80s blonde jackass. Preppy dickheads. Yeah. He could do that very well. Now, School Ties, which is four years later, also a preppy jackass in that movie. And maybe running the risk of being typecast. Very effective in this movie. Now, this is a beloved cult classic this is formative um this is where amanda learned about human sexuality listen i was on leave when they did school ties rewatchable so it was mallory and juliet and i wasn't there to like share my two cents about

the cast fire away i just we all remember, you know, we know where we were when we met Ben and Matt and Brendan and Chris O'Donnell and everybody else. What about Randall Battenkoff? Yeah, and Randall Battenkoff. I mean. He had a moment. It definitely had a moment,

but like it didn't really continue. School Ties is not in. No. But I will say there are a couple continue. School Ties is not in. No. But I will say there are a couple of moments where Matt Damon is downright vile. And isn't it also, yeah, no, he's awful. It's pretty formative in that whole class of actors because they all get cast and then they're competing with each other. Damon has talked about this with Bill Simmons a couple of times and that anxiety of where

they were all kind of going up against each other in audition after audition. And with Bill Simmons a couple of times and that anxiety where they were all kind of going up against each other in audition after audition and Edward Norton was part of that class obviously Affleck Brendan Fraser there were so many actors

at that time who went on to great success. Geronimo Geronimo and American Legend one of your favorite movies. This movie is directed by Walter Hill and it stars Gene Hackman

and Wes Studi. Pretty good movie. Bit of an overlong melodrama but this is the movie that got him to drop out of college. He got cast in this movie he got the chance to work with walter hill and he said i want out and he plays a lieutenant in the army in 92 he was already in college

yeah that sounds right yeah that sounds right that's i mean this is where the age gap is like the most that was 32 years ago so So yeah, he would have been 19. Geronimo, interesting movie. Not one of my favorites from Walter Hill, but I do love Hill. Not going in the Hall of Fame. Glory Days. He plays a character named Edgar Pudwacker.

So what do you think that's a joke about? This is a goofy indie comedy starring Ben Affleck and Sam Rockwell. Matt Damon is a very small part haven't seen this one I think this is when they're living in Eagle Rock together

the boys I think around this time yeah this is a cool time is this when the Beastie Boys were living in Atwater probably

right around this time maybe a little bit earlier in the 90s yeah used to be a country. 1996, Courage Under Fire. Yeah.

Specialist Alario. A small but memorable. He's extraordinary in this movie. He's so good. So, he plays a critical figure in this story. He basically only has

one scene in which he is interrogated by Denzel Washington aside from some flashbacks and gives a real who's that guy performance.

This was the only movie that I was thinking about where I was like, does a movie like this have to go in to his Hall of Fame because of what, I think it signals to Hollywood about who he's going to be.

And I think it is also an early sign of what you were describing where even though he's this lantern-jawed, handsome, super smart guy, super talented actor very gifted the the tricky thing is because normally when we pick like the oh it's the breakthrough role it's the breakthrough role comes like several years before like the storm

and the next year is already i mean i'm i'm jumping ahead but like he's already in the mix yeah and this is more like you know good good pacing in a movie rather than the it's already kind of decided before courage under fire shall we shall we yellow it we should yellow it okay yeah we will yellow courage under fire. Yeah. We will yellow Courage Under Fire. This is Ed Zwick's movie. Good movie. Yeah. 1997, Chasing Amy. He has a cameo role in this movie. Right.

Everybody says Chasing Amy hasn't aged well. Maybe they're right. I enjoy it. Listen, it's just, once again, and the Matt and Ben thing is very special. There will be a View Askew Universe podcast with Chris while you're out. I don't know when it's going to be. It's going to be six hours long. We're going to go through every movie. I think that's great. The real question is,

will I listen to it? You love Chris, so I say yes. I really do love Chris. He's an extraordinary podcaster. And you get very, very lonely during all of the nursing and everything. It's so boring. Will you revisit the film Chasing Amy? No. 1997 as well. The Rainmaker. I re-watched this yesterday. Oh, really? How fun.

Now, obviously, I'm going to go back to look at a lot of Francis Ford Coppola movies in the next month or so. So I wanted to look at this one. Gotta say, I really enjoyed it. I don't remember having

a big feeling about this movie. But there was a lot of other stuff going on. Even within the Grishamverse, let alone the Damonverse and the Coppola verse. In my mind, this was in fourth or fifth place in terms of those movies. It was less commercial than a time to kill or the firm or,

you know, that first wave of movies that came a little later, but Coppola basically doing a paycheck job about taking on a story about a young lawyer in training. Who's in Memphis state who gets involved in a big case um danny david danny devito mickey rourke really really good cast in this movie and just like rock solid entertaining um movie that feels less common right now uh and also you know getting knighted by francis ford coppola even in the 90s, you know, it means something.

He returns the favor and appears in a couple of other Coppola movies as we go down the line. This movie is, I guess, ultimately a box office disappointment. I just... We're about to have... We gotta yellow it.

Okay, yellow. Listen, it's a long list and here we go. I mean, I don't think the remake is gonna make the cut. Okay. 1997 Good Will Hunting. Just an absolute green

it's green I love this movie so much it's very very good and it's I mean I was 12, 13 when it was released and I was just like

oh there are you know smart boys out there in the world that also look as hot as Matt Damon really important

have you met any? not since it's really really tough yeah I love this movie too as hot as Matt Damon. Really important. Have you met any? Not since. It's really, really tough. Yeah, I love this movie too. I think that this is a movie that women can love and men can aspire to. Yeah.

I too am a genius and have complicated feelings about my upbringing. Right. And I too just need to move to California to pursue my medical degree. And I want to help, but I can't help with all of this.

How many Fields Medals do you have? As you know, I think math is very important. So it's related to science. Science as well. Yeah. So you can't do the science without the math. As I tell Knox every time we drive by the NASA laboratory in Pasadena. That's great.

It's in. No, it's really in. Also, one of the great Oscar speeches Pasadena. That's great. It's in. Good Will Hunting is in. No, it's really in. Also, one of the great Oscar speeches of all time. Very, very good. They were so excited. They were so excited.

That was cute. Also, I don't know if Matt Damon would agree with this, but I've always been a Minnie Driver fan. I think she's quite good in this movie. She's wonderful in this movie.

You're out on her? No, no, no. Okay. I mean, you know that they then got together. Of course. And then he broke up with her on Oprah. I no no okay I mean you know that they then got together and then he broke up with her on Oprah and then you know listen as we said before Matt Damon has not been perfect and then did you see that when the clip was going around a couple months ago of their acceptance speech and they cut to Minnie Driver looking like heartbroken on the Oscars. And Minnie Driver got into the comments

to be like, I was watching this and I was there, I was heartbroken. So I was so conflicted that this person I loved was receiving the success for something that we'd worked on. But also I was so sad because I hadn't expected the relationship to end. She's really good on social media. I would encourage you to get in the comments

when the View Askewniverse episode goes up so you can talk about how we discuss your feelings about Kevin Smith. That's voice memo only from 2 to 4 a.m. Understood. Copy that. I won't be listening to any of them. Auto delete.

1998 Saving Private Ryan. Also not technically a cameo, but verging on a cameo. Yeah. Despite being the titular character. But essential part, obviously, because it's in the title. Private James Ryan. And also like an essential turning of what you expect from that role and a performance from him.

So I sort of thought that we would put it in, but we don't have to. We can yellow it. I'd like to yellow it to start because I think we have some franchise sorting to do yeah and I don't know how expansive it's going to get okay

1998 rounders this is going in I know it's very important to you and I think that's great do you like it? I like it but I just don't understand

gambling and poker enough still you know you have to get educated well I know but it's like you and Bill don't help you know you just start talking over me that's not true yeah um i i've created an incredible platform for you to speak all the time you're just like casino royale they never do that conversation over let's talk about some real gambling uh i hope they make a

sequel they either are going to make a sequel or they are enjoying a lifelong punking of fans of this movie by every three years saying they're going to make a sequel. Right. I hope that they do for a variety of reasons. Bill has pitched himself

somewhere between seven and ten ideas. Oh, I thought you meant that Bill had pitched himself to be in it. Please put Bill in. Well, that would be fun. I will be there. I'll do anything I can do

to get that movie off the ground. 1999 Dogma. I haven't seen this since because it's hard to see now. Yes, I own a DVD copy. Congratulations. The Blu-ray was announced

just this year. So it'll finally be released on Blu-ray. When? What day? I don't know the day. Have your alarm set. I don't know the day. I don't know if they put a release date on set like calendar alerts for something is don't try to

other me on on this show okay i'm a normal man who like has a hobby that's that's that's the start and the end of it uh when it was announced so fans were excited because this is... Okay, I noticed that suddenly we're going to the passive third person. Yeah, okay. It is, it is difficult to see.

I remember at the time being like, I'm going to be really into this because this is like, you know, cool and subversive

and has my guys and also Alanis Morissette. So, but I don't think it needs to go in. It's very messy. Affleck and Damon play rogue Morissette. So, but I don't think it needs to go in. It's very messy. Affleck and Damon play rogue angels.

Yeah. Who've come to take over the world. Sure. Normal stuff. Yeah. From Kevin Smith. Exactly what you'd expect

from him. How do we know it's not true? We don't. That's a good point. Is it based on a true story? It might be. I have always had a fondness for Dogma,

though I do think it's a little bit messy. Okay, I don't think it's going to go in. I don't think so either. 1999, The Talented Mystery. Green, green, green, green, green I don't think it's going to go in. I don't think so either. 1999 The Talented Mr. Ripley. Green, green, green, green, green.

I'm not going to fight you. You know, I posted a photograph of the Blu-rays. Yeah, it was missing. It was missing. I don't know where it is. Did you steal it from my house? Where is my Talented Mr. Ripley Blu-ray?

Where is it? Maybe just to taunt me. You know, maybe just to get under my skin. Yeah. I can't find it. This movie is wonderful. Lights out.

And also a very, very, very good Damon performance as Ripley, which is a tricky character. And again, not what you're expecting him to do at this point in his career. It's pretty slimy and off-putting. We should just say, we chose this movie to present at the American Cinematheque Friends of the Fest Festival last year. We're going to be back in cinema tech friends of the festival last year we're gonna be back in la friends of the fest i think there are still some tickets available okay

gone girl is this year's see so it's really we did matt now we did do ben it's all august 23rd yes so if you want this is the second year in a row yes that you gave me a list of movies we should present and then i added one. And they picked the one movie. But I added the movie knowing you would love them. Yeah. No, it's good. But no one will let us do a bigger splash or Moneyball. You would think a bigger splash would play now

with Luca Fever here. Two movies this year. That's why I put it on the list. Let us present a bigger splash to the public at large. Very understated. But I'm excited about Gone Girl. Me too. And seeing Talented Mr. Ripley with that crowd

and with so many people who had never seen it. The Philip. And seeing Talented Mr. Ripley with that crowd and with so many people who had never seen it. The Philip T. Morehoff entrance. It was just, it was so good. Let me also just say now, if you're considering coming

to the, to the Friends of the Fest and you haven't seen Gone Girl, please do not watch it. I would like to sit next to someone who has not seen it before. Interesting. That's all I'll say.

Okay. Good note. 2000, Titan AE. I don't know what this is. This is an animated film. Yep. That's why. From Don Bluth. One of the, really one of the legendary animated filmmakers of the 2000 or the 1990s. This movie is not going in, obviously. This movie has its fans. I'm not one of them, but it starts off of a little bit of a dicey couple of years here where after the incredible success of goodwill hunting and township miss ripley also uh it's a very successful movie

we get into some tricky territory yeah titan a he's just doing a voice work so obviously not gonna be held against him too much 2000 the legend of bagger vance yeah deeply problematic movie we throw that word around a lot this is an actually problematic movie in terms of the framework of what kind of story. Really tough. You know, the trope of the magical Negro, all the things that are wrong with this movie. I watched it for the first time. I'd never seen it before. In addition to it being, you know, not having great perspective on race, this is really boring.

I do remember it being really boring. I saw it in theaters because, once again, I was I was like really, really dedicated to the Matt Damon experience. And he just wears a weird golf hat. And then it's... There's some interesting golf stuff. It prominently figures Walter Hagen and Bobby Jones, two of the greatest golfers of all time, as key figures. But... Bobby Jones is a big Atlanta figure.

That's great. I live right near Bobby Jones. My mom lived right near Bobby Jones Golf Course. The film takes place, I believe, in Savannah. Yeah. Well, great. I live right near Bobby Jones. My mom lived right near Bobby Jones Golf Course. The film takes place, I believe, in Savannah. Yeah, well, nothing problematic

has ever happened there. Yeah. So, Bagger Vance is out. 2000, Finding Forrester, just a cameo role as Steve Sanderson, a little favor to Gus Van Zandt after working on Good Will Hunting.

That's not in. Yeah. 2000, All the Pretty Horses, also watched this, I think, for the first time. You really were not there for matt damon like i was there these are two movies that got very bad reviews let me tell you that i also in 2000 at the age of like 16 read the cormac mccarthy book wow or because i

became aware of it because matt damon was remaking it also i think i saw noah baumbach's kicking and screaming around this time which has a essential book club scene about all the pretty horses thank god we all speak spanish um so i like tried so hard to like this and i was and it was that real like teenage like almost swifty zeal of being like no no no no you don't understand it's beautiful like look at the vistas you know it's so funny because this movie is so not your thing no i know but this is the past this is being 16 and being like you know i too can be moved by like this the silent men and the lack of words very hard book to adapt there are reportedly multiple other cuts that are longer and work better this is a real harveyissorhands situation with Miramax and isn't there also

something about the score yeah there was originally a Daniel Lanois score applied to the film which didn't ultimately make the cut I don't think

but like Damon has talked about over the years like the original like there's a Billy Bob Thornton cut with the score that is like one of

the most majestic things that he's ever seen that's like completely lost to time. I have had that privately debunked for me by people who are close to the production. Okay.

I know a lot about this movie that I'm not allowed to share. That's what I'll say. The version that I saw. But had never seen it. Have you read the book? I haven't read the book. This is one of the-

Have you read any Cormac McCarthy? Many Cormac McCarthy books. How dare you? What are you talking about? You haven't read all the pretty horses. No, I haven't read this one. But I've read most of the classics. I've read No Country, The Road, Blood Meridian, all those books.

Because I was in that wave in the 2000s along with Oprah when we were all going gaga for Cormac McCarthy. I mean, this movie was cut by Sally Menke, Tarantino's editor. You know, like it's... They tried. It should be something special. It is not. Damon is also, I think, a little bit miscast as a cowboy. Yeah. In general, anytime

he's hurting things, which will come back, it doesn't totally work for me. It is one of the few areas that he can't fully inhabit. So that's Red. Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back. Funny movie. I won't apologize. He plays himself. It's Red. Ocean's Eleven.

I mean... this is complicated yeah shall we just have the oceans conversation i mean sure well we can talk about all all four films right in the franchise so oceans 11 of course is a movie that we love is a is essential is a classic yeah i would argue that Ocean's Twelve is Matt Damon's yes it is highlight in the series because it's both the

like the Zeppelin meeting right with Brad and George he gets elevated and then he's in charge of one of the heists

and he gets the famous I I was in four weddings and a funeral so as as you know as the world's number one

Ocean's Twelve Stan probably in the world's number one oceans 12 stand probably in the world do you think there's anyone who likes it more than me uh i won't argue i don't think that i hold a lot of titles but i think world's number one oceans 12 stand probably like you could have like a necklace made for me it's quite a legacy I'm just doing the work for my guys you know what I'm saying and my gal Julia Roberts

so I do think it's more interesting to put Oceans 12 in that was that's my instinct okay um so then

would you leave out Oceans 11 and put in Oceans 12 I think we at least at least need to yellow it okay well yellow Oceans 11 okay uh Matt Damon's voice has a small role in the majestic that's red 2002's jerry now i

re-watched jerry i did not and i liked it i had a good time okay jerry is a roving almost ambient drama about two guys who go out to the desert and wander around for two hours. Yeah. The Instigators is a Jerry reunion. Right. Casey Affleck and Matt Damon. It's a movie that's not really about anything,

but it's about everything. That's so beautiful. It's about the quest for nothingness and our infinite search. The vast open spaces of the world and the ways in which we occupy them. And how you fill them with DVD collections?

Well, something's got to go there. You know, we can't just leave it blank. This is not going in, respectfully. It's incredibly rude. I like Jerry.

Okay, Jerry's out. 2002 Spirit colon Stallion of the Cimmerin. He plays Spirit. Okay. It's an animated movie about a horse.

I guessed that but it was the stallion. You know, what is the Cimmer. I guessed that, but it was the stallion. What if it was a porno? What is the Cimarron? What if it was a different use of stallion? I think I would know that. Well, you have a lot to learn, let me tell you. Spirit is not going in.

Just so you know, Spirit is a banger. Just so you guys know. Whether you've seen it or not, it's a banger and it's very important to my generation. I felt I needed to voice that so that you guys didn't get absolutely piled on. I am thrilled for eight-year-old Bobby. And I still will not be watching it. It's a banger. I'm just reading here that this is

an interesting film. Set in the Old West in the late 19th century, the film follows Spirit, a Mustang stallion who is captured during the American-Indian Wars by the United States Cavalry. He is eventually freed by a Lakota man named Little Creek with whom he bonds as well as a mayor named Rain.

Is this a Killers of the Flower Moon prequel? Spirit. Yeah. Okay. That's respectful to everyone involved. Thank you. Justice for Spirit. Justice for Spirit.

Gen Z sees you and they thank you, Bob. No, this is truly a millennial, young millennial mode. Gen Z has no idea what this is Bob no this is truly a millennial young millennial mode Gen Z has no idea what this is this movie has no legacy today Spirit

how much money did Spirit make let's take a look we're in 2002 okay I gotta keep going I have an interview in 45 minutes 2002 The Bourne

I didn't just extremely green I agree well okay so here's what I did here was my rewatch was I rewatched part three? Ultimatum.

I rewatched Ultimatum last night. So I watched Supremacy. I really like Supremacy. Supremacy, I think, is the best movie. I don't remember Ultimatum that well. I haven't seen that in a while. So the first 45 minutes of Ultimatum are lights out amazing. Okay.

There's a whole scene with a Guardian journalist and a chase in London like at Waterloo Station. I mean, it's like amazing. And then David Strathairn shows up and he's not very nice. But it like, it gets a little, it just kind of keeps going.

Okay. You know what I'm saying? So, but I did rewatch it just because I know that it's Chris's favorite. Ultimatum is his favorite? Yeah. Didn't he draft that at the i thought it was supremacy i think supremacy but i thought he drafted he was like supremacy the one with carl urban okay oh did he so supremacy this this is the same thing as oceans to me where on the one hand you

could say obviously identity kind of confirms his stardom because it makes him an action star. And it's a kind of big grown-up property. And his performance is very good in the first movie. The second movie, though, is where Paul Greengrass takes over from Doug Liman. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, they kind of establish that shaky camera filmmaking style. Damon's physical performance is really, really good. I think it's just a better movie in a variety of ways.

Better spy movie. It's got all that great Brian Cox, Joan Allen stuff in it. And the end with Joan Allen and the Moby once again. Yes. But I don't know how you can't put the first one in. I really, I love Identity. Okay, well, let's put Identity in, and we'll circle back to Supremacy and Ultimatum

as we go through the list here. 2002 Confessions of a Dangerous Mind, doing a solid for his buddy george from the oceans movies um not going in 2003 stuck on you this is a farrelly brothers comedy about conjoined twins starring greg kinnear okay i'm sure it's respectful uh it's not going in yeah i'm gonna pitch you something 2004 euro trip are we sure this is the cameo that goes in that's okay of course yeah it's either this or Interstellar I'm not

I'm not doing Interstellar but that's a he's great in Interstellar he is one of the best things about Interstellar and people love Interstellar but Eurotrip is the one you think of

when you think of the Matt Damon cameo thing obviously this is one of the weirdest things that's ever happened in movies that he portrays like a punk rock

pop punk singer has like a shaved head and just shows up out of nowhere as Donnie. Yeah. And sings what is now like a legendary song that many people love. I don't know how this happened. I don't know why it happened. Eurotrip's okay. It's not a great movie. Yeah.

But it's like it is legendary now. And it is like the representative cameo. I'll green it. I don cameo. I'll green it. I don't care. I'll green it. We're also like, there's going to be other Nolan. So it's fine. It's a good point.

Okay. 2004 Jersey Girl, also a cameo, not going in. Yeah. Disastrous film. There's Born Supremacy in 2004 as well. Okay. So let's yellow that. Yellow that.

Because we're putting Ocean's Twelve in. Yes. And those are the same year. Would you agree with me that he's best in Ocean's Twelve and has the most toceans 12 in. Yes. And those are the same year. Would you agree with me that he's best in Oceans 12 and has the most to do? Yeah. Okay. He has the most.

Yes. Okay. 2005. And his mom shows up. It's so funny. That's great. 2005, The Brothers Grimm. Terry Gilliam movie.

That's out. No one remembers that movie. 2005, Syriana. A movie that was a very big deal at the time. Right. Stephen Gagin directed. George Clooney won an Academy Award for his performance in this movie. Matt Damon is actually the star of the movie. He's kind of like the portal figure

that brings us into this world of intrigue, corporate intrigue around the world of oil. I don't think it's going in. I don't think so either. We just don't have room for it. We don't. It's red. It's an interesting movie.

It's very flawed. I have not seen it in some time. When I saw it, when I first saw it, I was like, probably the most important movie I've ever made. In hindsight,

I don't feel as strongly about it. 2006, The Departed, this is going in. Absolutely. He's amazing in this movie. So, so good. Very, very, very, very, when I say like a conniver,

he is an incredible conniver. There's so much Freudian psychology sitting right on his shoulders throughout this whole movie. I love it. And also right under the surface, you know, and it doesn't like,

but he's still in control for most of it. I mean, also just like, you know, returning to Boston Roots and then it is also the Leo and Matt Damon face-off, which is very important

to all of us. And the two of them doing what they do best, I think. Yeah. You know, the phony charmer versus the anguished, you know, deep guy. Right. Okay, so we have seven greens right now. Oh, no.

Well. Okay, well, you know. It's going to be okay. 2006, The Good Shepherd. Very slow, quiet, but very good movie about the formulation of the CIA, directed by Robert De Niro. Damon, again, like sort of the portal figure of the film was edward wilson pretty boring okay good shepherd is out oceans 13 i like it i like it yeah we don't have room ultimatum

not in he's he's honestly i didn't re-watch it so you like you liked it or you just i mean it's like i like these movies you know um But I like all of them. But at some point, he just like keeps running, you know? In 2007 and in 2008, he does something very funny. One, he appears in Coppola's Youth Without Youth in a cameo. He also appears in a cameo as a priest in Che Part II, which many people seem to have forgotten that he pops up. Obviously, Steven Soderbergh.

He's building this long resume of work with Soderbergh. They're not going in. they're not going in and then they're not going in and then in 2008 he does a voice for the american dub of ponyo that's beautiful have you seen ponyo no it's pretty good okay which one is it it's about a fish oh i like fish yeah what happens to the fish oh great many things sure you you can't even begin to imagine finding nemo but of like Finding Nemo, but... Kind of. It's definitely... I mean, Pixar is so inspired by this movie

and all Miyazaki's movies. I like it. I like that he did that, even though it's not going in. I really like this 2009 update that you put in here, which is just in red, he declines Avatar.

He declined Avatar. He said, I don't want to be an Avatar. And he was offered percentage on the, like, he was offered back end. James Cameron wanted him for Jake Sully, the part that eventually went to Sam Worthington. And Matt Damon said, I'm good. And effectively turned down probably in the neighborhood of $75 million. Maybe more. At least, like, on that movie.

Yeah. Yeah. Because he would still be, Sam Worthington is still with us. Yes, I don't think he got the same points that Matt Damon would have but like at the end of avatar 2 jake sully i don't remember the sully clan they're at the center of this beautiful story did you see they announced avatar colon fire and ash yeah coming to us next christmas so they're going to a volcano i think there will be a fire people the way that we were with a water people. Uh-huh. The fire Navi. Okay.

Take me back to Navi. Okay. Do you think we would remember Avatar more were Matt Damon in it? Well, I think there's a case to be made that it would be a bigger,

it would have bombed because it would have had a different perspective. Oh. We would have gone into it thinking it was a Matt Damon movie. Maybe not bombed, but not been the absolute

billion dollar phenomenon that it was. Okay, moving on. 2009, The Informant. God, I love this movie. It's so good, but not been the absolute billion dollar phenomenon that it was. Okay, moving on. 2009, The Informant. God, I love this movie. It's so good. I think this is one of his best performances. Yeah.

He plays Mark Whitaker. This is a kind of satire black comedy about an absolute moron who thinks he's getting away with it and isn't. This is a Steven Soderbergh movie. It's one of his lesser seen movies of the last 25 years. I highly recommend anybody

who hasn't seen it to see it. Did we put it in his Hall of Fame? The Soderbergh? Did we do it in his top 10? I have no memory. It's like not my favorite Soderbergh, but everyone is doing exactly what they are trying to do so well. And it is really discomforting the lengths that Matt Damon goes to

to just keep sticking with this and this performance. Let's yellow it for the moment. Okay. We're going to circle back. 2009 Invictus. This is a rugby drama by Clint Eastwood co-starring Morgan Freeman. I saw it in the theaters.

You don't have to tell me. I haven't seen this movie in some time. I remember being pretty mixed on it. Yeah. Eastwood defender though I am. Notably, this is one of just a handful of acting nominations that Matt Damon has gotten

in his career. He got one obviously for Good Will Hunting and he got one for this movie and he got one for The Martian. Right. And that's it. I don't know if that means anything to you. I don't think it means anything in the context of this Hall of Fame. So you would say that's a red Invictus. Yeah. Did you like the movie?

I mean it's an inspirational sports story. So I think I cried, but I haven't thought about it since. Okay, red. Quickly on the informant, by the way, we did Steven Soderbergh ranked every single one of his films, which is how we handled his movies. And the informant was number 10, right on the dot. Number 10. So just made the cut.

Interesting. Yes. That sounds about right. You guys made a lot of fucking good movies. What was number one? Number one was Out of Sight. Out of Sight. Right.

And Limey was two? Limey was three. Ocean's Eleven. I think you lobbied with your life to make it number two. Oh, good. Okay. I mean, like, I think that actually is right. I always assume that I get outvoted on these things.

It was the pandemic. You know, you guys were being nicer to each other. Were we? In some ways. Okay. 2010 Green Zone. Okay. Anotherul greengrass film yeah his third film with uh with greengrass not as effective to me as the previous two born films right yeah red also in 2010 is an incredible year for him in 2010 he also appears as liz's boyfriend in 30 Rock for five episodes. You could make a

case for putting this in. I don't put TV shows in, but this is great shit. It was really good. He was phenomenal on 30 Rock.

30 Rock has an age today. Maybe I'll go back and rewatch it. I think it would be a great thing with the 23 minute episodes and just

like such a good vibe. I love 30 Rock. 2010, Hereafter. This is a very unusual movie and a very unusual movie and a very unusual performance. After the success of Invictus,

Clint wanted Matt Damon to come back and do a movie about tragedy and the afterlife. And Matt Damon literally plays a medium. And it's very touching. Yeah. The movie is a bit uneven. It's incredibly audacious

for Clint Eastwood. There's a lot of CGI. There's a lot of big set pieces. It's not at all what you expect from an Eastwood movie. It's an international story. I think this is a pretty cool movie. A little bit overlooked.

And Damon is very good. Written by Peter Morgan. That's right. It's not going in. It's not going in. But I'd just like to wave a flag for it because I think it's interesting.

Also in 2010, True Grit. This movie has its defenders for Damon in particular. He plays Labeef. Yeah yeah i think the most hungover i've ever been in my life is when i went with my dad to see this movie in new york he was in town um what does that mean for its hall of fame status it just means like i feel a little nauseous right now i was like wow uh it's yeah it's You know, it kind of it feels like minor everyone, you know, which is not a bad thing. Ten Oscar nominations.

Well, sure. It's the Oscars. Matt Damon was not nominated. This movie made $250 million. Yeah. Huge hit. It is a great movie. People like the Coens.

People like Jeff Bridges. People like Westerns. Speaking of authors for whom I've read multiple books, Charles Portis, based on his novel, which is an amazing novel. The John Wayne movie is solid. Is Haley Steinfeld still dating that football player? His name is Josh Allen. Yeah. He is my nemesis as a Jets fan.

Oh, you have many nemesis as a Jets fan. He plays for the Buffalo Bills who have won the AFC East many years in a row now. Right. And then always the heartbreaker to Kansas City. Yes. Good memory. Yes. True Grit, I want to yellow it.

Okay. I think that it's a perfectly reasonable yellow. Okay. Will you also yellow the Hats movie? The Adjustment Bureau? No. Rare, weird, middle ground misfire here. So weird.

So what was it? I mean, I was like blogging at this time. So it's Matt David and Emily Blunt, and they use hats to travel back in time to like make adjustments to time. I think that's right. And I think John Slattery is also in it. Does he like run the Hat Bureau? I think that's all correct. Yeah.

Okay. It's a metaphor for male pattern baldness, I think. The Adjustment Bureau is out. 2011's Contagion. Yeah. Okay. It's a metaphor for male pattern baldness, I think. The Adjustment Bureau is out. 2011's Contagion. Tricky one. Well, there's another 2011. I mean, okay. Hold on.

Can we just read his 2011? Can we read his 2011? Chaotic. Contagion, Margaret, Happy Feet 2. Apparently he cameos as Bill the Krill. Yeah.

Have you guys done Happy Feet 2 in your home? yeah have you guys done Happy Feet 2 in your home you know we tried Happy Feet 1 and it really didn't click with Alice which I thought was interesting

okay and of course the legendary We Bought a Zoo so We Bought a Zoo just instant bread we can stop talking about it I fought so hard

to get into the premiere of We Bought a Zoo I was like I need to be there to find out why Matt Damon bought a zoo. What was the answer? He wanted his family back.

Yeah. Yeah. And then. Scarlett Johansson. Helped him. And like a lion maybe. I love to get my family back. Interesting that you don't support.

Small businessmen in America Sean. It's very fascinating. That's not what I said. At this time. I would say that there was some. Bloat around the edges. Of Cameron and Damon industries. And I wish them well. Of two guys I love but that movie didn't work Happy Feet 2 obviously not going in that's red Contagion and Margaret I think are two of the best movies that

he has ever been a part of I really want to put Margaret in it's an interesting role it's a small role it's a small role but it's bone chilling and it's so cool that he did it. Wait, would you put it in over like Behind the Candelabra? I was never really a huge Behind the Candelabra person.

Sorry. That's gross. I don't, I'd like make a movie instead of a three-part miniseries. I love you, Steven. You know? That's,

that's, look, I'm not going gonna say anything bad about Margaret right Margaret I think is is a five star movie I didn't really say that

with my full throat as you know so but Contagion he's also like the center of he's the star yeah

he's the lead amazing movie that predicted our future um why don't we yellow Contagion and Margaret both because we gotta keep it moving okay

2012 Promised Land not as down on this as most people I actually enjoyed the twist predicted our future. Why don't we yellow Contagion and Margaret Bolt because we got to keep it moving. Okay. 2012, Promised Land. Not as down on this as most people. I actually enjoyed the twist. This is the one he did of John Krasinski? He and John Krasinski

co-wrote this movie directed by Gus Van Sant about fracking. Right. It's a mid-tier drama. I think people make fun of it now, but I thought it was

not bad. It was fine. It's not going in. It's not going in. Behind the Candelabra, which I really like and think is hilarious, and Matt Damon in particular, transforms into Scott Thorson. I love that they did it, but I don't rewatch it. Bob, yellow it for me, please. Thank you. That's fine. Yellow is fine. No one is saying you can't have a yellow. Elysium, the much-anticipated follow-up to District 9 from Neil Blomkamp. Oh my God, you guys talked about this so much.

I thought it was going to be a great film. You guys were just like, Elysium, here it comes. It wasn't great. It's red. 2013, The Zero Theorem. This is just a small part in the Terry Gilliam film. That's not going in. The Monuments Men, a world-class disaster.

One of the most boring movies ever made. I can't believe it was boring. It's supposed to be all the things that I love. Yeah, I can't believe that either. I mean, I know, George. Listen, George has other strengths. Like, can't say presidents. 2014 Interstellar.

So we chose to go with Eurotrip for a cameo. Dr. Man. Everything that happens with Dr. Man in Interstellar, I was hooting and hollering. I was like, this is a great shit in a movie where I was like what is happening with this film

I'm not totally sure I get this tone and then just putting a weird double crossing asshole in the middle of it was great you gotta save your shots

for later on okay I'm saving the shot Interstellar is red yeah 2015 The Martian automatically green he grew potatoes

by himself and we were all like yes Matt, Matt Damon, grow potatoes. Well, he carries the movie entirely. Yeah, that's what I meant. And his wonderful... He's just sitting there tending to the little leaves. And you're just like, grow, little plants, grow. Let's just take a look at the 2016 Oscars real quick and see what happened here, why he didn't win.

Ah, yes, because they needed to give Leonardo DiCaprio an Oscar for The Revenant because they didn't give him one earlier in his career. So Matt Damon doesn't win his Oscar for The Martian in a year where he otherwise would have.

Yeah. He was up against Eddie Redmayne for The Danish Girl, Michael Fassbender and Steve Jobs and Bryan Cranston in Trumbo. So that would have been

Matt Damon's Academy Award. Yeah. Stupid. Fucking hate the Academy. Okay. 2016, Jason Bourne. Red read was very disappointed by this film the this the scene in Athens at the

Acropolis I don't remember at all okay 2017 no 2016 The Great Wall I wrote it about this film for The Ringer and about what China means to Hollywood you know what happened China just pulled out of Hollywood entirely they're just like no thanks thanks for teaching us everything we need to know and now we're gonna do it all by ourselves this movie is useful in the sense that matt damon has like a recurring bit where he talks about his daughter clowning him and being like i'm just calling it the wall there's nothing great about that movie super funny i mean it's directly well sure but that's nothing great about that movie. Super funny. I mean, it's directly J.M.O. Well, sure, but that's good

daughter shit. I think people were confused by the movie because actually, the movie is very knowing in that it casts, is it Pedro Pascal? I think it's Pedro Pascal

and Matt Damon as two, like, bumbling Westerners who stumble into this world of intrigue. And it's very knowingly playing with it with those

conventions. Tony Gilroy did a polish on this movie by the way. I mean it didn't work. What do you want me to say? The Great Wall is red.

Downsizing. I will ride for it. I think it's a very insightful satire of speaking of filling space. You know what if I could shrink those

Blu-rays down? Yeah. Have you thought about that? I mean you can't you can make them like a tiny little memory chip and then you can put them anywhere on the internet and you can just be like then i don't own them how do you make your own system get a server you know 2017 suburbia like a you want me to get a plex server yeah but like instead of ruining the environment for crypto or whatever, you can restore cinema. How much crypto do you own right now? I don't own any. Wouldn't it be awesome?

What if I go on leave and just become a coin bro? A coin babe? What would you be? Yeah, sure. Okay. Yeah. Good luck with that. Thanks.

Seems to be going very well for all those who are invested. Imagine the real-time podcast that I could make about being a coin babe while raising like a one month old. Just write into voice notes every night. Every night. Just do your diary. You would make a tremendous amount of money. Dear coin bros. 2017 Suburbicon. No. Oh, you don't even want a yellow downsizing? No, it's not going. I mean, it was a big flop. This has been one of your causes though. I know, but it's not in his hall of fame. I has been one of your causes though. I know but it's not in his hall of fame. I'm not an idiot.

You know? I know I seem like an idiot sometimes. Sorry to like support you. I appreciate it. Well coming up with great podcast ideas. Four consecutive cameos

in Thor Ragnarok. That was very funny when he showed up in Thor Ragnarok. And now he's just like best friends with Chris Hemsworth and spends a lot of time

in Australia. You know Matt Damon is like actually does have the resources and I think has become a real adopter of my dream which is to spend summer and fall in each hemisphere and never actually have to this is gonna be like the Venice Film Festival where you're just gonna keep saying on a podcast that you're gonna do it until one day the Australia travel board is like, Amanda, we've been hearing your talk of wintering in Australia. Would you like to join us? Which is really summering.

Come to Canberra. No, I'm not wintering. I'm doing their summer, which is our winter. That's what I, but wintering, meaning you leave your winter. Yeah, but if it's the Australian tourism board, they're going to want me to say summer, you know? And that's what I'm looking for, endless summer.

I support you in all endeavors especially if it means getting you out of the country for six months out of the year okay moving on unsane cameo no deadpool 2 no sorry in which he plays redneck number one okay oceans 8 a very brief reprisal of the role linus cald. Okay, those are all out. 2019 Ford v. Ferrari. What do you think? I was chatting with my wife about A Complete Unknown. And she was like, what movies has James Mangold made? And I was like, oh, this, Logan, you know, Walk the Line.

And I was like, Ford vs. Ferrari. And she was like, oh, that's a good movie. I just heard Bobby perk up. I mean, I know. We know Bobby supports the big noise and the big wheels going vroom vroom i i'm cool with that but eileen being in ford v ferrari as you just said to me eileen is full of surprises she really is for quadrant film it was not i it was i liked it sure i think it's very good i don't i'm not sure if it's in. I don't think it's in. If you just put Jake Gyllenhaal in the Carol Shelby role,

is the movie any worse? Uh, you might root for the Jake character a little less. You might not believe it. Respectfully to Jake. And again, I have not finished presumed innocence. So I don't,

I don't know what they're doing. We're circling back on that. Who can say when I'll finish it? well, but I mean, he's bringing a little uh suspicion to everything he's doing this is the first of a wave of performances in which he plays effectively management yeah or middle management. Yeah. So usually powerful management. I'm not sure that Gyllenhaal and like other people who are as handsome as Damon, even in this era, like where he's a little older, can communicate like business acumen, you know, like leader of people.

I think that that would make it worse in the Carol Shelby role. That's fair. But I think that the things that make that movie good still would be great, whether he's in it or not. I think the racing and bail are more essential than Damon, which is not really like a knock against Damon. But anyway, Jay and Silent Bob reboot. He brings back the character of Loki from Dogma. So this is an auto green. Okay. No, it's not going in.

No sudden move. I love the final five minutes of him. It's so good when he shows up. Very good movie. Oh, no, it's not going in. No sudden move. I love the final five minutes of him. It's so good when he shows up. Very good movie. Oh, no, it's that guy. Yeah. But it's Matt Damon. Enjoyed that.

It's not going in. Yeah, no. 2021 Stillwater. I'm glad he tried. Once again, when we're hurting things, when we're in open spaces, trying to get in touch with our feelings with few words and maybe having to build something. It's not really Matt Damon's core skill set.

Well, in the movie, he plays an out-of-work roughneck from Oklahoma. Right. Whose daughter has been imprisoned overseas. And then you come to learn as you're watching the movie that this is effectively like a stand-in for the Amanda Knox story. Right. That his daughter is accused of a heinous crime and that he is consistently trying to get her off. And then it becomes a love story about him and a woman, a lawyer. And the cute little kid. And the kid that she's the mother of.

Yeah, this was a strange film. Very strange movie. Very strange. I'm glad that he tried something. Obviously, this was a strange film. Very strange movie. Very strange. I'm glad that he tried something. Obviously, Tom McCarthy kind of cashing out on the spotlight chip. Very weird. And it feels like it didn't happen. It's in the middle of COVID.

Yeah. I remember seeing it in a room full of masks. And I was like, what are we doing here? And I was like, okay. Also in 2021, The Last Duel. Yeah. He co-wrote this movie with Ben Affleck. And Nicole Hollis.

And Nicole Hollis Center. Yeah. A three-part story told three ways. He takes, well, I don't know if it's the least flattering part, but a very unflattering part in pretty much all perspectives. He just has really bad hair and is a mean guy. Different types of icky. Jean de Carouge. Yeah.

I don't know if this is going. I don't think it's in either. Yeah. I think it's a solid film. I think it's underrated. It's interesting. Yeah. 2022 Thor Love and Thunder reprises that role again.

No. No. 2023 is interesting. We've got both Air and oppenheimer yeah i think oppenheimer needs to go in i think he's like so good and his general groves pretty essential to pulling the audience in and turning that from like a like a nolan acrobatic technical fest into a movie with some human stakes that makes it a lot more mainstream you know and like what you remember from that movie is i mean many things but one of them is him being like, I'd like a 0% chance, you know? And he does both the carrying the exposition and the emotional stakes of it like so lightly.

He's really, really good at it. I think I'm with you. I think I'm with you. He is the comic gravitas of the movie. Yeah. Which is something that that movie gravely needs. It's tricky. So that would make it nine movies that we've got in at green so air you're saying is out i think he's good as sunny vacar a little bit miscast in my opinion the last speech is

obviously really good yeah yeah he's good yeah driveway dolls obviously that's just the cameo that's out very funny if i don't remember whony was. Must be one of the imaginary friends. I mean I know that but I don't remember which one. He's voiced a great many animated characters in his time.

Well that's wonderful. Why can't you respect him? I respect him a lot. He was spirit in spirit. He was. I did not.

Kale in Titan A.E. I did not respect the film If. He was the dad in Ponyo. I respect him. I respect his fatherhood.

I didn't think it was very good. Is the instigators going in? No. Okay, so then I'm going to read you the greens that we have and then I'll read you

the yellows, all right? Because we only can choose one of these yellows, which is madness. So, on our list, we've got Good Will Hunting is green. Rounders is green.

The Talented Mr. Ripley is green. The Born Identity is green. Euro Trip is green. Oceans 12 is green. The Departed is green. The Martian is green. The Talented Mr. Ripley is green. The Bourne Identity is green. Euro Trip is green. Oceans 12 is green. The Departed is green. The Martian is green. And Oppenheimer is green.

Okay. Now. So we've got. This leaves us with the following films that we have yellowed. Courage Under Fire. The Rainmaker, which I think is, we can take off the board. Yeah. We got everything that we need from Good Will Hunting. That has already existed in The Rainmaker, which I think is, we can take off the board. Yeah. We get everything that we need from Good Will Hunting

that already exists in the Rainmaker. Yeah. 1998 Saving Private Ryan. Tough one. Yeah. 2001 Ocean's Eleven. We will have been made a choice by not putting that in. Right, but we have Ocean's Twelve.

We do. We have our Soderbergh. Yes. Yes, that's right. And we have like a Soderbergh with a point of view. Mm-hmm. 2004 The Bourne Suprem right. And we have like a Soderbergh with a point of view. Mm-hmm. 2004, The Bourne Supremacy. I think I'm comfortable taking it out.

Yeah. Even though I would say on the record, it's the superior film. Yeah. 2009, The Informant. This would be a personal fave if we managed to get this through. I think these next four are really hard to choose from. And it might be even easier to just do Saving Private Ryan and be done with it. But we've got the Informant, True Grit, Contagion, and Margaret all made in a 36-month window. Okay.

So I think Contagion, even though he is the star of it and is playing the emotional center, we've got Soderbergh represented. And that is such an ensemble piece as well. He's like the essential. He's like the essential, he's carrying the ensemble, but like it's okay. We can just have it be. So you're taking Contagion out.

Yeah, we can have it be yellow and be like Matt Damon, we're grateful for all that you do. So then you've got essentially three borderline cameos, not cameos, but three supporting performances and one lead left on the board.

That's if we're taking off. No, that's one, two, three, four supporting performances and one lead for taking Ocean's Eleven out. So take out Ocean's Eleven. We should do the informant. Don't you think? Gosh. I guess you just don't, that movie, you just don't have that movie without him but true grit

and margaret are i think are better movies i'm like margaret is my personal pick it's so cool that he did it it's so upsetting it's so effective that it's him doing that well one thing we didn't mention that i probably should have mentioned is you know he is friends with kenneth lonergan who wrote and directed Margaret and then he goes on to come up with the concept

for Manchester by the Sea and then hires Kenneth Lonergan to make that movie Lonergan wins screenplay award for that movie that movie is a

masterpiece too we did it on the rewatchables this year so there's some cool connectivity there but you wouldn't put Manchester by the Sea in the Hall of Fame

just because he only produced it, even though he was originally going to portray the part that Casey Affleck played. The other thing I'll say is like we already, we do already have a Soderbergh. It's very funny to have Eurotrip automatically in and to be debating amongst the informant True Grit and Margaret. Because we're making our own list, you know? Yeah. It's our list.

It's not other people's list, which is why I don't want to hear about Interstellar from anyone because we have a Nolan. We have a Soderbergh. We have a Scorsese. Like, maybe it would be fun

to have a Coens in, but that is not really... We have a Ridley Scott. We have a Doug Wyman. Right. But he doesn't work with the Coens as often. And Lonergan, as you said, is like, leads to... Scott. We have a Doug Lyman. Right. But he doesn't work with the Coens as often.

And Lonergan, as you said, is like leads to more stuff. I think it should be the informant or Margaret, personally. I'll say we'll do the informant because that's a lead role. Yeah. And there's a world in which someone else is in those other parts. I agree.

Saving Private Ryan is a tricky cut. I know that people will be mad, right? Because they all just loved your rewatchables. That was one of the most popular episodes. I know. It's so weird. I mean, it's really good. People love that movie.

Yeah. I guess I feel okay about this. I mean, Saving Private Ryan is important to the story of Matt Damon. And Matt Damon is good in that movie. That's a great reveal in that movie when you learn that he's just like an story of Matt Damon. And Matt Damon is good in that movie. That's a great reveal in that movie when you learn that he's just like an absolute asshole. Right. That all of these men have sacrificed their lives

to save this person. I mean, do you want to put it in instead of Oppenheimer? They're kind of two sides of the same coin, aren't they? Yeah. Saving Private Ryan is Steven Spielberg laying out and being like, this is everything I can do. And this is the deepest and scariest historical story I can tell about World War II. And Nolan did the same thing with Oppenheimer.

It's the same. It's fascinating comps in many ways. They're both so virtuosic. But Demon is doing something, is playing a very different part. It's the story of being in your 50s versus being in your 20s, right? Isn't that funny? They definitely echo each other in interesting ways. You could substitute Saving Private Ryan for Rounders.

How dare you? Well, they're both 1998. We're making a list, as you said. How dare you? Okay. I'm just, like, I am fine with the list as we have it. But if you are afraid of the greatest generation we have it. But if you are afraid of the greatest generation

coming after you, then you can substitute Saving Private Ryan in for Rounders. I gotta say, if I got into a scuffle with someone from the greatest generation,

I'm getting beat. Like, there's no question about it. We're in dangerous territory without Chris here. He's sort of our conduit to the greatest generation. He really understands. It Chris here. He's sort of our conduit to the greatest generation. He really understands. It's true.

He's the closest to at 66. He doesn't have what these men have, which is that grip strength. You know, it's like an old man, or you shake an old man's hand, and you're like, Jesus Christ, sir. Were you just on the oil rig? Like, why are you shaking my hand so hard?

That's a Trump trick, too. Did you know that? You know, the hard grab and pull? Isn't he old enough now that he's losing hand strength? I don't know. That's a real problem. How often is he cranking it? That's really the question.

He's not going out in public, so. Good point. That's a very good point. He must be bored. I think we have it. I think we have it. I think we have it even though the haters will come

and I'll send them to at AK Dobbins. And then it will never be read. Here's the list. That's not true. You're about to be terminally online. Clutching an info.

Not yet. You know? I'll forward them all to you. God, I wish it were. Should I send them all to you via voice memo reading them? Okay, here's the

Matt Damon Hall of Fame. This is a weird list. This is a very us list. That's the point of this podcast, right? You're right. You're right. Goodwill Hunting. Rounders.

The Talented Mr. Ripley. The Bourne Identity. Four No Doubters. Can't go wrong with those four. Euro Trip. Oceans 12. The Departed. The Informant. The Martian, and Oppenheimer. I think this is a good list.

If anything, my concern is that it's too normie. I think the inclusions of Eurotrip, Oceans 12, and The Informant. Yeah, I think that makes it a little spicy. I agree, but that's why I'm not going to lose sleep. I think we did a good job. Yeah. I'm proud of us. Shall we go to my conversation not going to lose sleep. I think we did a good job. Yeah. I'm proud of us. Shall we go to my conversation with Sean Wong?

Absolutely. Okay, let's do it. Sean Wong is here feature film DD incredibly exciting the movie itself is about a person who is learning how to use a camera so I wanted to start by asking you when is the first time you picked up a camera do you remember oh the very first time well I said this off uh the record but thank you so much for

having me on this podcast Sean this is a big deal for me and my friends we all listen to this podcast. First time I picked up a camera. I will say like first time to really start actually trying to do something with it where I got really interested was maybe like seventh grade. It all kind of, you know, skating and photography all kind of came into my life at the same time. But my mom, this is similar to the movie, but my mom's a painter. And a lot of her process starts with photography so she had like a nikon that she would use on you know she would would go on like trips or stuff and she would take a bunch of pictures and when i started skating i um i started taking pictures of like my friends skating and then i would kind of show it to her and be like oh paint this photo of them doing a kickflip off the forest air.

And they're like, she's like, this photo sucks. And I remember, I think I just kind of caught the bug, I guess, of just liking to take photos and that turned into filming stuff. A lot of times when I'm talking to filmmakers on the show, I'm asking them like, what are the pivotal movies that you've seen that made you want to be a director? But I increasingly am finding, especially as like filmmakers like yourself are getting younger and younger as I get older. It's not necessarily movies that are turning them on, you know, and obviously the engagement with like YouTube and Facebook and Instant Messenger is such a huge part of the story that you're telling in the film. Was it movies early on that pushed you or was it, was it skate videos and YouTube that got

you interested in making this stuff? I think it was a little bit of everything, to be honest. You know, I always liked movies. I liked the feelings that movies gave me. Um, I, I wouldn't say I had like a, like a cinephile diet just cause you know, it wasn't like, I'm like, I'm going to go watch every Scorsese movie front to back and see the i just i like the feeling that movies gave me but i think also just like i don't know like where i grew up i didn't know any other filmmakers i think when you don't have that i don't even know if it's access but just like you don't think you can do it um it's just like being a director being spielberg just felt like such a far thing that my imagination couldn't even take me there

and so i always loved movies but i never thought i could be a director and then it was sort of through skate videos and filming skating and you know the rise of youtube and i think this generation of kids and maybe filmmakers now, but just kids who started filming stuff, you know, very jackass inspired and just kind of not wanting to be a filmmaker, but we had cameras. And I think that just, I think the craft of it slowly grew and grew as my love of film also grew and grew. And then eventually those two kind of somehow came together.

But, you know, I mean, I saw, you know, a lot of movies I feel like shaped a lot of filmmakers, you know, like Spielberg's movies. But I never saw a Spielberg movie and thought I could do that. It was sort of, I think, more in like the independent film route that I was kind of like, oh, maybe there's a path forward for me there. I could see through the cracks of how I made it, but the love of movies was always there. So what did you do? Because you're having this extraordinary year with your feature and Academy Award nomination, and you're kind of having the fairy tale year for a young filmmaker, but what happens between I'm making skate videos with my friends, I'm uploading stuff to YouTube, and I want to be a person who makes movies? I have to go to film school.

I have to follow the charted path. Does it essentially click that you can do that? Yes and no. I think the long story less long is I started making skate videos and really trying to make little montages of my friends skating. And that was probably starting in 2007-ish. Also filming myself in my garage, kind of like the kid in the movie. And Spike Jonze was a big, big, like he's made some of the seminal skate videos ranging back from like the 90s with Video Days. I saw a skate video that he did called Fully Flared when I was in seventh grade

or eighth grade it came out in 2007 and the intro to that video like shot it on 35 too and it's like really cinematic and surprisingly like emotional which is a strange word to call a skate video but I just remember being like that felt like a movie that felt like what I feel watching cinema sounds pretentious but I was kind of like oh I want to do that whatever that felt like what I feel watching cinema. Um, sounds pretentious, but I was kind of like, Oh, I want to do that, whatever that is. And so I spent two years just trying to make stuff that, you know, was bad, but like trying to be at that level of some, some sort. And then in 2009, um, I was a freshman in high school and where the wild things are came out that spike directed. And I remember a lot of kids at my school started to wear Where the Wild Things Are shirts because it was becoming very culturally relevant.

And Urban Outfitters was selling a lot of Where the Wild Things Are stuff. And I just remember his skateboard company released a line of Where the Wild Things Are skateboards. And I remember being like, that's a weird collaboration why would they do that like I thought they were collaborating with Urban Outfitters or like you know whatever stores were selling it but then I was like oh wait the guy who made all those skate videos did that like that

movie that's going to be in theaters and like it's a big studio movie and I think that was the sort of eureka moment for me where I was like wait that guy does jackass and like no budget skate videos. But that's like a huge move. And I don't know, something about that really kind of clicked for me. And I never, I didn't think I could make movies again still,

but I think I just then discovered his music videos and commercials and all the stuff. And all throughout high school, I was just making stuff. And then when I graduated high school, I was kind of like, well, whatever this thing is, I really love, I don't know if features is a way forward. Like I still didn't really, couldn't see myself doing that just because it felt so big. And then I went to community college first with the hopes of transferring to film school. But that first semester in community college was when i took my first like critical studies class and i was introduced to like um 400 blows that's where i saw 400 blows and that was a really kind of transformative experience for me and that's also the year that fruitvale station

and short term 12 came out and i remember watching both of those movies and being very profoundly moved and also with both of them really like this is not a dig on those movies, but just how small they felt. I could see through the cracks. There wasn't these huge visual effects. It was great script, good actors. And I looked up the budgets. Still a lot of money, but in movie terms, pretty small. Both independent, both California movies too, basically. Yeah and fruitvale you know sort of i knew certain i was like i know that

bart you know i i know the train i i know certain locations and it felt in a way close to home and i was like oh maybe there's a path forward for me here and i started watching a lot of like low budget independent films and it's sort of also mumblecore era but that kind of i think planted the seed of like okay maybe there's a feature path here which is like something smaller and then i think as you just start writing and making more stuff the craft grows and you can kind of see how people scale up but it started with those small movies as like a path forward to independent film there's something very natural but also very risky about doing something semi-autobiographical as your first feature. Why did you decide to do that for DeeDee?

I think it was twofold. One was I felt like what was personal and autobiographical was an opportunity here. You know, again, when I looked even 400, you know, I don't want to put my movie next to 400 Blows because I think the movie is a masterpiece. But like, that's also semi-autobiographical for Truffaut. And I think, but when I watched that movie, it's, I'm not doing the like exercise of,

oh, is that him? Is it not? Maybe a little bit, but it's like a really just moving kind of piece of art that to me, like it just feels so lived in and real. It's clearly a world he knew like the back of his hand. And this is, you know, that saying like, write what you know, it felt like there were certain things about my upbringing and my childhood that was like, what I know actually feels like I hadn't seen before in, you know, a movie like Stand By Me

or 400 Blows or Rat Catcher. Like if they can access these different emotions of boyhood through like a very specific world, I think the world that I knew, which was, you know, California suburbs, but even just like the internet of the time and kind of this generational aspect that I felt like a lot of movies that were made in the 2000s didn't quite capture. Because I think you hear a lot of filmmakers say like, the internet's

not cinematic screens aren't cinematic so all the films that were made about that era never there's a whole chunk of our lives that just wasn't accurately depicted in movies it felt like again and in the sort of 2000s i think a lot of the movies that were being made didn't star kids who looked or talked or felt like me and my friends you know um so it just really felt like the hyper specific elements of my personal life there was also maybe something to mine there that could be an access point to familiar emotions just through something that felt like a little fresh and unique yeah there's a an interesting moment in the movie where the kids in the film are watching super bad and super bad is exactly what you're talking about where it is a

movie that is made in 2007 is a seems to be set in 2007 it does have some remnants of like internet culture in it but when i watched that movie i was like this is really more movie about my childhood in the 90s and made by a bunch of guys who are my age i mean we've even talked about it on podcasts here at the ringer and like who relates to what movies and when your movie i've already had a few people at work come up to me and say like it's my favorite movie of the year this is exactly what my childhood was like and i'm a little bit older but the art of making a recent period piece is complicated so i was curious how you went about doing that like you know nailing the music making sure that the costumes were accurate, making sure that like, even the specific language and the way that the language is communicated in instant messenger,

all feels like so just right. And it's, it's got to be hard to do that. Can you like talk about making sure that something that you lived, but is actually a long time ago is correct in the movie the interesting part of it was i i knew it was going to be a period piece because just the nature of it since 2008 not present day but i don't think we ever approached it as a period piece or i never thought of it as a period piece it was really again i think just looking at it from like a personal angle and just being like, okay, the experience I had when I was 13, what is there? What is the hyper-specific things that we can highlight that will hopefully just also be vivid and textured and visceral? Because the culture has changed.

It's completely shifted. And I think going back to, I think the benefit of doing something semi-autobiographical for a first feature is again, I think even going back to short-term 12, you know, I remember reading a story of Destin writing that script and people liking it, but they were like, you can't direct this feature because you've never directed a feature before. And then he went and made, I am not a hipster to just make something to show that he could handle 90 minutes behind a camera. And then he could get the funding for Short Term 12, which I thought was crazy that he couldn't get that off the ground, just off the power of the script. But I was kind of like, okay, well, let me reverse engineer this script to be a movie that was one could be made at a reasonable budget

and two if you like this movie i'm clearly the perfect director for it even though i've never directed a movie before you're not going to go find another director to bring this movie to life and so that answers your previous question but then as far as that the semi-autobiographical elements of the personal elements kind of like the movie or the music in the movie and a lot of the things in the movie, it's all just locked in the back of my brain. There's something really, really kind of beneficial, I guess, as a director where I could look at something and just be like, something feels off. And it's just your personal barometer of authenticity. And sometimes it could be like I'm not sure what is off at this exact moment but like something is not accessing the like

it's not triggering the part of my brain where I'm like that feels right and I think that was kind of the north star of the movie like it all had to feel right it had to feel lived and it had to feel real to what I remembered and what me and my friends remembered. And I think that went back to, yeah, the costumes, you know, me and my costume designer, Brianna Murphy. She is a few years older than me. So she went through all her high school yearbooks and I gave her my middle school yearbooks. And we just had, and I had just like a huge folder of shirts that were just like viscerally memorable for me that I'm like, that shirt feels like I will, if I see that shirt, it will thrust me back and certain brands and Livestrong bracelets and all that kind of stuff. And so again, it all went back to things

that I could remember first. And then we kind of built the world from there. It's incredibly impressive. I'm curious about the getting the film funded, you know, like, you're a first time feature filmmaker, it's a very personal story. It's also a very hard time in independent movies. It's much different than it was 10 years ago, or 30 years ago. What did you do? You wrote the script? And then what? Yeah, well, I didn't start trying to get it made until 2022. I started, you know, the seeds of the movie really planted. I started writing in 2017. And I, as a first time filmmaker, I, I didn't want to rush it. You know, I don't think I could have made this movie when I was 22 or 23, even if the script was perfect. I wanted

that experience of getting to take it through like development labs, you know, Film Independent has one, SF Film, Gotham, Sundance Labs. I was fortunate enough to get to do a few of those and they really helped me grow as a filmmaker and made me the filmmaker that was then capable of actually directing this movie but long story short uh after the sf film reigning grand for screenwriting that i got in 2021 that those six months of working on the script with all their creative advisors really got me to a place with the script where I was like, if someone believes in this movie to finance it,

I will shoot this version of the script. It's maybe not perfect, but I don't think it ever will be. No script ever is. I feel ready though. And then I sent that to Carlos Lopez Estrada, who at that point was just my good friend, but also someone I had worked with before

we have very similar taste I sent it to him I worked on his second movie and I said hey what do you think of this I'm trying to get this off the ground now I think it's bigger than

Summertime which is the movie we worked on together but smaller than Blindspotting I think which was his first movie I don't know how to get a movie off the ground

what do you think basically also like do you think, basically? And also, like, do you have notes on the script? I just want to hear your thoughts. And he was like, I love this. And I was like, dude, if you have time and want to come on board as a producer, we'd love to have you because I love working with you.

He said yes. And that just started like a day-in, day-out journey for, you know, about two years. But in that first year, I was still working on the script. We were kind of working on it together. And we sent it to like the traditional avenues through his agents, UTA. And we got a lot of, we love it, but no. And basically everybody passed, but we got a lot of like, we love it. We got a lot of, we love it, but it's too small for us. And I was like, what does that mean? I was like, give us your leftover money. Like what,

you know, learning a lot of the mandates of all these, you know, production companies in Hollywood. And I don't know, it just didn't really gel with me. And I was like, I don't think any of these companies, they have their slate. No one's waiting for this script from a nobody filmmaker to land on their desk. And then we brought on a couple other producers josh peters and valerie bush valerie had line produced a film last year called fremont um and you know our movie takes place in fremont so she felt like a sort of natural fit into the puzzle josh has a lot of independent film experience the long story short again is in january of 2023 the script got like another boost because we got into the Sundance

screenwriters lab and we were just kind of we had a little bit of development money and I was like if we're gonna shoot this movie in the summer because I was really really committed to that we kind of have to start casting it now because so much of our movie is first time non-actors and so we just kind of started building this train of like, okay, we put out our open casting call. We're telling everybody we're shooting it in July. And everybody was like, congrats, you're financed. And we're like, no, not really.

And it felt like we had a lot of momentum. A short I had made got into South By. And so it was kind of like, okay, there's a lot of things that are crystallizing, but we had no money still and one 20 in one 24 hour span i got a call from josh that said hey this financier this woman i work with robina who is a godsend i love her she um she wants to invest a little bit of money into your movie it's not enough to get the movie made but it's an you know you're always just looking for that first drop in the bucket it's enough to go back to people to say like, somebody believes in

this movie with their wallet. And it was like, amazing. That's, that's amazing. But again, it was like March 1st. And I was like, a lot has to happen if we're going to shoot this movie in four months. Immediately after I got that call from Josh, I get on a zoom with this company, Unapologetic Projects, who had gotten the script and they loved it and they wanted to meet with me. And in that Zoom, I could just sense that they really loved the script and were kind of sussing me out to see if I could actually direct this movie. And I just remember pitching the movie better than I had ever pitched it before because I could tell they were serious and that matters like if you yeah if it then and they came in with like really great questions and I was like like swinging home runs I was like I remember hanging up and I was like I've never

pitched the movie better in my life and the next day we were actually going to the bay area just for you know scout just to kind of preliminary scout. On the way there, I got an email from them. It was like, we love Sean. We love the movie. We want to co-finance the movie. And then it was like, whoa. And then we went straight to an investor meeting, and he was like, I believe in you.

I believe in the movie. What do you need? So within 24 hours, we had no money, and then we had like 80% of the movie financed. And Carlos and Josh and them were like, dude, no looking back, like you're shooting your movie this summer, start prepping. And so from that moment on, it was just like, we were off to the races. You mentioned this already, but I did want to ask about that related to both the financing

and making of the film. Computer screens and phones is often considered inherently uncinematic. We often talk on the show about how a lot of older filmmakers are making more period pieces like older period pieces so they don't even have to deal with cell phones or social media and the storytelling obviously your movie fully embraces that did you feel like you know the financiers the potential potential producers like did everybody get specifically like how you were going to do that how how clear are you making some of those choices in the screenplay i'm curious to hear you talk about it yeah well the the screenplay actually all the computer screen stuff i tried to

format it in a way where it felt like you know the a messages had different fonts and colors and it really looked like an aim chat box and so the screenplay was formatted in an interesting way where the computer screen stuff read like a computer screen in some elements but I think again going back to why I'm the right director for this it was like you have to look at your own personal narrative as a filmmaker you know I worked at Google for like six years and it was sort of how the computer language of it all started, where I was like, I feel like I'm learning a new language of filmmaking here at that job, which was the same education that Anish Chaganty, who directed Searching, you know, we share a similar education. We both worked at Google. His, you know, movie is obviously a very hyper modern thriller. But I was like, I think I can use this language and bring it back to like a more innocent time period which when I was pitching it I called it like the pre-technology technology era and it

was this period where again like the kids in a movie are going out and hanging out at playgrounds and kind of doing stupid stuff with their friends but then they're coming home and then they're on the internet it was like we were starting to live our lives online and, and kind of convincing people that like all that education at Google, I can translate it to this movie. And also I pitched it in a way where this didn't also end up happening, but I was like 20, 25 pages of our script takes place on screens. It'll cut our shooting days down.

And so it'll actually keep our budget lower because we don't have to you know like if our script is 95 pages it's actually we're actually shooting a 75 page script didn't it's still it didn't work okay it's a novel concept though in a way yeah it's cool thinking of it um i pitched it that way but we were still still, you know, a 24, 25 day shoot, which is standard indie fare. But again, I think it's really kind of looking at the story you're writing and then looking at how you can present yourself as a filmmaker where it's like, look, all the tools that I know and all the shorts that I had made too. I had made this short film called Hags, which the New York Times released.

And it all takes place in like, it's like bringing my middle school yearbook to life. And it started as research for Dee Dee. And I think a lot of times as a first time filmmaker, you're just selling people on like your passion, like how, what it could be like the potential of something. And that is just like shooting an arrow into the dark and hoping they believe in your passion but the thing with hags um there was like data attached to it it was like you know they weren't they're like companion pieces but it was i pitched as like if you like the short you will love the script and they're they explore similar themes through similar characters and and the new

york times released and they were like this was the most shared short film of our year like it just caught fire and i was like great that's a good data point because i was like the audience for the future it's the same audience because you know there were comments on the new york times from like white six-year-old men from like arkansas who were like i loved this i. I saw myself in it. And it was like, look, this very specific portrait of these like middle school kids in Fremont, it works for people of all ages,

all genders, all backgrounds. If we can access a similar audience pool with DeeDee, it's not just for people like me. You know, I love our tagline for anyone who's ever been a teenager, because I was like, it's for anyone who's ever been a teenager. I think if we do our jobs right, the experience and the audience that we found with Hags, I think it'll be sort of a similar audience, if not more, because it's 90 minutes and it's a lot more rich and it's a lot more textured and we're able to kind of get deeper with everything and that was the bet that i took and that was a lot of the pitch you know it's like this isn't like a you know a movie just for like asian american kids and it's like this

very niche thing i was like i do think there is like a very very wide audience for this movie it's not this tiny little indie that nobody's going to see. And I think it's pitching it like that. It's like, there is a market for this type of movie and there's an audience that is just waiting for this movie that is like a movie that they didn't even know they wanted to see. That's kind of how I was presenting it. And hopefully it works. I think it's working. I mean, one of the things that I think makes it tremendously relatable, though honestly hard to watch at times is for the character of Chris, like you create these agonizing scenes of personal failure of moments where I,

you want to scream at the screen, just do this. Don't do what you're doing. Do the other thing. And you, you, you show us Chris making the choice to do the right thing and then not doing it.

And it's a tremendously smart, like narrative choice and emotional choice, but it's also gotta be hard because like, when you're putting a movie out like this out in the world, you're like, Oh, that's a semi autobiographical tale. And like, I am a lot like Chris and I keep doing these terrible, I mean, you know, he's a complicated character. He's not a perfect leading man, so to speak. So like maybe talk about some of those choices too. Yeah. Well, I think for better or worse, I can really compartmentalize the autobiographical parts of whatever this movie seems to be and just the story I'm trying to tell.

And I think for me, you know, when I watch a movie like Lady Bird or a show like Rami that does go into these very gray places and the character is named Rami. And it's like that is the most semi-autobiographical, autobiographical version of something that I've seen. And I, to me as an audience member, there's something fun about being like, did he really do that? Like where does the real life Rami end and the character begin? That to me is just like a, you know, it's a fun feeling. It doesn't detract from the story that the show is saying, but to me, there's just an extra giddiness I get watching it.

And I think for me, I never approached directing the movie as like, oh, people are going to think that's me and they're going to look at me and think I peed in my sister's lotion or something. I don't know. It was really just by the time I was directing it and all throughout post, it was, and writing it too, at a certain point, it was, what are the themes of our story? And how does everything in our script serve that theme. And to me, the theme of it really was like how different versions of shame manifest itself in this young Asian American kid's life.

And that's personal shame, whether it's like him with his friends and being less experienced or less cool or less whatever, cultural shame and societal shame and how all those different forms kind of prevent him from accepting the different forms of love in his life, love from his family, love from himself, love from his friends. And it was like, okay, well, everything then has to kind of point back to that.

And I remember when I went through the Sundance Screenwriting Labs, there were two really big pieces of advice that I got from Lulu Wong and Eliza Hittman. And Lulu said to me, she was, you know, because she went through something similar with The Farewell of doing something that started from a very autobiographical place. But then she was like, and I was kind of already inching there, but she was just like, I think there's a slight attachment you have to some of the people that there are inspirations for the characters and

she was like you have to just allow yourself to completely remove yourself from the personal and look at your script as characters and these are characters and what is the story you're trying to tell and how can you take these characters and serve the themes of your story and and then eliza and i talked a lot about the difference between embarrassment and shame. And there's a lot of scenes in our movie that are embarrassing, which is the cringe stuff.

But then it's like, when does that become something that he's ashamed of? Or when does he feel shame? Because that's something that's very deeply seeded. And to me, it was like, okay, well,

then we should just keep continuously twisting the knife on this kid every time we want to give him a win no like bring him deeper into something where he could feel like it it then manifests itself into shame and so that was kind of the exercise of the script it was like okay well let's everything has to just continuously twist the knife on him until he eventually gets to this rock bottom. That is very save the cat type stuff. But it was like, for better or worse, being very hard on Chris and making him live those moments that get him to a place where he's really ashamed

of the things that he's done and wishes he could kind of be a different version of himself. It really works. I'm curious. I mean, like I said, you're having this fairy tale movie maker year. What kind of movies do you want to make now? What are your hopes? IP, man. Just kidding. I'm just kidding. I wish sometime one person would say that. I wish somebody would sit down and be like, I've had a Sundance darling, and it's doing good box office in the specialty cinema,

and what I really want to do is direct Captain America 6. 6, yeah. 7. No, I mean, there was an idea that I had before this movie that I was just like, it's too big for a first movie that I'm getting back. I'm kind of unpacking now. I'm still really excited about it. I won't talk too much about it because just then I was just like it's too big for a first movie that I'm getting back I'm like kind of unpacking now I'm still really excited about it I won't talk too much about it because just then I have to do it but uh that's the next thing I'm writing but you know I do you want to make

like studio movies though like do you want to try to you mentioned Spielberg at the beginning of the conversation like do you want to make a 50 million dollar movie it doesn't have to be IP but you know what I'm asking yeah I'd love to at some point but I think you know I I'm not I'm not in a rush I guess to just all of a sudden do some huge studio thing that could you know lose the studio millions and billions of dollars if I don't do it well um I think there is also this false-ish narrative that I'm trying to break out of for myself that it's like, you made your first feature, now you've arrived. And I'm like, I still have a lot to learn. I'd love to just keep making things on my own terms as much as possible, whether it's, you know, I did a lot of documentaries before this and I want to keep making docs. I want to keep,

you know, writing my own things. I'm reading scripts from other people now and trying to figure out how my voice marries with their words and seeing, you know, just kind of where I feel excited. Cause making movies is, it's a long time. You know, I'm 29 now I turned 30 and like a month and a half.

But the thing I keep thinking to myself is whatever the next thing I make, the next movie, I'll probably be in my mid thirties by the time it's done. And, and then I'll probably think a lot more about, sorry, is this? No, it's crazy. You know, you're right. Yeah, and it's like right now I can be a little bit selfish and if I want to take a few years and just work on the next script

and make something, again, that's bigger than dd but still personal and you know um something that is just like a passion project in the truest form i can because i don't have a family i don't have i'm not thinking about those things but i do eventually want a family and you know maybe then i'll have to start making concessions on the types of projects i take but at this very moment in my life, coming off of this movie, I think I want to make sure I'm saying yes to the things that really move me and excite me on a very pure level.

Because I don't have a mortgage. I don't have a daughter. It gets more complicated, let me tell you. Sean, we end every episode of this show by asking filmmakers, what's the last great thing they have seen? Last great thing I've seen. It does not have to be a movie.

Should I check my letterbox? You can if you'd like. It wouldn't be the first time someone did that. I'll shout out my friend, Lance Oppenheim. He was here just a few weeks ago. Really? Yeah. For Ren Faire?

For Ren Faire, yeah. Yeah, I'll say Ren Faire. That's very funny that you guys are friends because I'm having the same experience with you that I had with him, which is like, you guys are so young and so talented and having so much experience. I don't mean to be patronizing but I'm like this is amazing there is like genuinely a generation of filmmakers and you guys are interesting too because you know he's

doing docs you've done docs sounds like he wants to try to do some narrative stuff and the kind of like the collision and the openness to mixing the media and mixing the storytelling style I really appreciate appreciate and admire. So congrats on Didi and thanks for coming, Sean. Thank you so much for having me, Sean. This is really, this is really cool. Okay. Thank you to Alea Zanaris. It's her birthday today. Shout out to Alea. Happy birthday! And thank you to our producer, Bobby Wagner, for his work on today's episode. Good to have you back, Bob.

Later this week on the show, Chris Ryan and I will dig into Alien Romulus, and then we're going to rank the Alien movies. I strove by a billboard for this. And I was like, oh, maybe I should go with them. And then it's, I mean, it's just like the face hugger on the face. It's just like giant.

And it's an advertisement for this movie at IMAX. But you know who the star is, right? I don't. It's Kaylee Spaney. Oh. You know, I did know that because she went to Comic-Con and she wore a wonderful dress that I'd love the credit on. I thought she looked fantastic.

When you left the play date yesterday, we were chatting about this with some of our friends. And they were like, I think this movie is going to be great. I'm sure it is. I just don't really think I'm in a place at this moment. Understood. Maybe just watch Prometheus at home instead. Yeah.

Okay. Thanks for listening to the show. We'll see you later this week.