The Big Picture - The Movie Star Ranking: 35 Over 35, Part 1

Episode Date: February 16, 2021

Last year, Sean and Amanda bravely and controversially ranked the 35 best movie stars under 35. They’re back at it, only this time, they’ve trained their attention on the geriatric stars. This is the first of a two-part mega-podcast series highlighting the 35 best movie stars over the age of 35. Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Sean Fennessy. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about movie stars. On this very special episode, Amanda and I are doing something that may be very stupid, and we acknowledge it right now. We are going to rank the top 35 movie stars over the age of 35. Are you ready, Amanda? As ready as I'll ever be.

It's all coming up on The Big Picture. Okay, Amanda, this is part one of a two-part conversation. So we're going to foreground that at the very beginning here and say, why are we doing this? About 11 months ago, we ranked the 35 best movie stars under 35. And that was a fun exercise because we got to look at certainly a shorter list than the one we got to look at here. We got to think about the future. We got to look at upcoming projects and how people's careers might evolve over time. We got to forecast in a way and say, I hope this happens for this person. And we got to project. Here, we have a much trickier task. How are you feeling about what we're about to embark

upon? Terrible. I have no respect for myself. I have no respect for us. I did the best that I could. This is a topic that I am passionate about, that I believe in. I love movie stars. I love to talk about movie stars. I love to rank things. I take pride in a well-constructed list. And the task that we have set ourselves is very stupid. It's just like, what were we thinking? I was describing this task to my husband. I was explaining some of the qualifications. He immediately started yelling at me. I am sure that everyone else who listens to this podcast, parts one and two, will also yell at us. Just know that we are also yelling at ourselves. So when we talked about this 11 months ago, we addressed some of the big questions about being a movie star, which is what does that even mean?

Does that mean anything? You could make the case that they're as meaningless as they've ever been to the state of Hollywood and the state of movie going. Nevertheless, there are still a lot of big names. And when we put together the long list for this episode, it's pretty staggering. It's well over 150 people that I think you could credibly claim movie star status. Do you think that a human movie star in 2021 can open a movie on their own with their own power? What does open a movie even mean anymore, Sean? Good question. It's like, does someone's face in a little thumbnail mean that people will click on it?

Like, yes. And we actually have a fairly recent example of that, which is The Little Things and Denzel Washington. And a lot of people did watch that movie, which I think we all agreed was not very good, but it was some Denzel Washington in your life at home. And I enjoyed that aspect of it. I think you enjoyed having Denzel back and many other people did watch it on HBO Max. So I guess that does count as opening a movie.

Now, I don't want to spoil any list, but Denzel Washington is probably what one of, I don't know, two people who still has that power. Maybe five, maybe 10. We'll get to it. But yes, if you are Denzel Washington, you can still open a movie in 2021. Do you think we need gradations on this list to say that this is aspirational movie star and this is true blue, historical, John Wayne, Jimmy Stewart, Marilyn Monroe style movie star? Oh my God, you just brought Marilyn Monroe Monroe and Jimmy Stewart into this. And now I feel, I'm just very stressed out. Yes. What have we done?

This is a good point. There are different types of movie stars. Gosh, movie star means so many things. I'm sorry for the semantics and philosophical lecture everyone's about to get. But there is movie star in the presence, the charisma sense, a movie star in the heart, as I was saying about someone who did not make this list before we started recording, right? But also just kind of that person, when you see them on screen, you're just like, wow, they've got the thing. That's not what we're measuring here. We are measuring movie stars based on certainly their charisma, but also their success within the industry, the sense of can they open movies, are movies successful because of them both in their acting sense, but also their profile.

Their kind of general, you know, awareness in the world, celebrity power, whatever that means in 2021. And so because we're doing over 35, which now spans the age range of 50 to 60 years in some cases of people who are eligible for this, there are a lot of different generational types of movie stars. And a movie star at 38 has a different career certainly, but also profile and kind of celebrity identity than someone who is 50 or 60 or 70. And that's like both because of, you know, accumulated fame and career and also that the industry looked very different in 1970 to 1990 to 2020. So it does feel, this list is a little chaotic, which also stresses me out another reason i feel

bad because we're jamming a bunch of different types of movie stars together and trying to apply trying to apply a consistent logic to like like if we're comparing if it's like apples and oranges then we're comparing like eight different types of fruit, basically, on this list. Yes. And so we're caveating everything aggressively because we don't want to be yelled at. But who cares? We're making the list we want to make. And just because some person is more famous that is going to get cut than a person who

is less famous that is on this list, that doesn't necessarily mean that we got it wrong, per se, because we've created our own rules. We've got our own set of qualifications for this list that doesn't necessarily mean that we got it wrong per se because we've created our own rules that we've got our own set of qualifications for this list now i'm going to share a couple of those qualifications which i i admit we completely invented um one of them is that uh the person on the list must have had at least three movies in which they played a lead role which is to say a key and significant supporting role or a name above the title starring role in the past five years. So at least three in the past five years. Now you would be surprised, and by you I mean the listener, not you Amanda, how many people that disqualifies and what that says about where Hollywood is and how people are

spending their time. Because there's a bunch of people who are disqualified for not living up to that who you would think immediately that is the definition the textbook definition of a movie star this also means no voice work voice work does not count here if you showed up to a studio to voice the character of a clever rabbit in a movie for four days in 2019 that's not a starring role in our eyes We're talking about being in front of the camera. I assume you're on board with that part of this. Yes, I think congratulations to those people for making some money and perhaps having a fulfilling creative experience.

But that's not what we're measuring here. The people on this list must be born before February 16, 1984. 1984, very important year for you as well. I know. Once again, I just missed the list. Yeah. I wonder if we did 35 over and under 35 specifically because of your birth year, or did it just seem like a sexy title? What was the thinking there? Is 35 the peak of the movie star? Are they entering full bloom? I think that we were just sort of lightly mocking

like various 35 under 35 media packages over the years and didn't really think about what we were, you know, 35 under 35 is like a pretty common one, whether for industry lists and whatnot. Because 30 and sometimes there's 30 under 30, but 35 under 35 is kind of the highest it seems to go. Have you ever made a 30 under 30 list of any kind? No.

No. 30 under 30 movie podcasters who may or may not try to dunk on his or her co-host over a period of time. You could be high on that list. I hope I can. Well, you have to be 36 under 36. But, you know, I'm striving every day. I'm working hard. And maybe this is the year that I make I can. Well, you have to be 36 under 36, but I'm striving every day. I'm working hard, and maybe this is the year that I make the list. But I think basically we just borrowed that convention without thinking too much about it and then just created a huge mess for ourselves,

and now we're just doubling down on the mess. Yeah. So that means based on that birth year, here are a handful of people who missed out, some of whom were recognized on our 35 under 35. These are 34-year-olds. That includes Robert Pattinson, who came in very high on our list. And, you know, it was going to be Batman. So I feel good about that choice as I look back on that list. Michael B. Jordan. Also, I feel very strongly about his pick. Richard Madden. I don't know. He certainly didn't make our 35 under 35. But now I look back and I'm like, I don't know, after Rocketman and a couple of other things that he had done and all the Chris Ryan voice work about that weird show on Netflix. Was it Vicky?

I'm not even going to try to do the Vicky. I mean, it's just like for a while there after Bodyguard, he was the, will he be the next James Bond? And, you know, that happens to every, you know, British or British adjacent actor who does something of note. If it's him, then he'll definitely be on the next list. Speaking of British or British adjacent actors, Henry Golding was on our list. He also has been bandied about as a Bond.

He does not qualify here. Armie Hammer does not qualify here. And the less said about Armie Hammer, the better in 2021. Emilia Clarke not on the list. Cynthia Erivo not on the list. I think that that comprises the 34 year olds we looked at. So how do we devise it? We had a very loose formula when we did 35 under 35, it was about 50% what you've done so far, which is box office awards, history,

that celebrity power you were indicating 25% of what's next. And I think in this case, what's relevant here, not just about what's next is what's on your CV, but are you going to keep making movies? Because so many of the people that we think should have made this list don't want to make movies anymore without spoiling anything. I was like, holy shit, Reese Witherspoon hasn't made a movie in a long time.

And it doesn't seem like she's going to be making one in a long time. And that's interesting. If we had done this five years ago, I think this would have been a radically different set of names. So 25% is what's next. And then 25% is sort of what could be and where you think someone is going. And in some cases, I think we're going to get even more aspirational where we're going to say, we love what we're seeing from this person right now. And if either they play their cards right and or the industry works with them, they have a chance to do something that's rarely been done in terms of rising to a certain level of notoriety. The thing that jumped out to me, and do we have any other kind of caveats, rules, notes about how we did this? No, I would just say that even as we're

forecasting, we are forecasting from this particular moment. And there is a sense of this is the list right now. So, you know, and that's also because it's the age that people are right now. But you have to remember that all things are fluid and it's a snapshot in time. And then the other thing I would say, just to keep in mind, and we kind of alluded to it, is that there is a difference between a great actor and a movie star. And most movie stars are great actors and not all great actors are like movie stars. And that just has to do with really the box office and how fame works. And that's a separate conversation that we'll definitely have because I think it's really interesting. A lot of very deserving great actors are not on this list and we love them and respect them. Apologies to Mark Rylance, who is a phenomenal film actor and stage actor and is

definitely not one of the 35 movie stars over 35 because he's just not a movie star. He's a tremendous actor. And sometimes you get to be like Philip Seymour Hoffman or even Daniel Day-Lewis, where you combine matinee idol good looks and box office power and great filmmakers are interested in working with you and you're at the top of your craft. Most of the time, that does not happen.

Most of the time, the people that we're going to be talking about here, they could be great actors. It's a little bit of a, you know, a rhombus is a square, but a square is not a rhombus situation. Did I get that right? So let's note some ineligibles based on some of these guidelines that we've created, because

there are a handful of people who are retired that we know are not that are not making films right now. There are a handful of people who are ineligible and there are a handful of people who are disqualified, frankly, who otherwise would have been qualified here. So retired. Jack Nicholson. I'm waiting to do a Jack Nicholson episode of this podcast. I don't know how to do it.

I'll be honest with you. I went down a Jack Nicholson award ceremony rabbit hole a few nights ago. I just watched all of his acceptance speeches. He gave one at the Golden Globes about 15, 20 years ago, accepting the Cecil B. DeMille Award. Amanda, when we're done here, just watch it, okay? It's him on stage for nine minutes, just freestyling

with Warren Beatty on stage, who gave him the award. Everything he says is basically an in-joke to Warren Beatty about what a bunch of assholes they were in the 70s. It's phenomenal. It's great stuff. Jack hasn't been in a movie in a long, long time. Also has not been in a movie in a long, long time is which actress? Oh, yes. Cameron Diaz. Who, you know, once upon a time was kind of at the top of the food chain in terms of film actresses in Hollywood.

Certainly in the 90s and early 2000s. And I think she's one of these who kind of self-announced like sort of that she was retiring. She wouldn't be making movies anymore. Certainly, the 90s and early 2000s. And I think she's one of these who kind of self-announced, like, sort of, that she was retiring. She wouldn't be making movies anymore. And is now, like, making alcohol. Sorry, sugar-free wine, I believe, is what it's called. Sugar-free wine. Is that a thing?

I think so. I think it's just I watched her Instagram some, and that's what she's up to. And she seems happy. So it's definitely wine of some variety anyway how does one do that i maybe it's no sure added okay do you see are you googling it you're like looking at your computer really quizzically no i'm looking at her imdb um okay the films that she's made but i as i recall wine is made from fruit which has lots of sugar. I'll be honest. I haven't investigated it, but I hope she's well. I just mentioned that the actors sometimes say that they are retiring and they do retire

for a while and then they start working again. And that is one of the things that you can do if you're an actor. So we're taking people at their word for this moment in time. And if they decide to act again, then they can be considered for the list. Cameron Diaz has been good to her word. She has not appeared in a movie since 2014. It's been almost, it's been six and a half years since she appeared in a movie. She was in Annie and Sex Tape and The Other Woman all in 2014 and then called it quits. Fascinating. Also, the aforementioned Daniel Day-Lewis, who stepped away after Phantom Thread. We'll see if that's

real. Daniel Day-Lewis has threatened to retire in the past, but it kind of feels like it. And we're now two full years removed from Phantom Thread, are we not? Two and a half almost. Yes. That's one of the things where it's, we're taking people at their word.

And also, frankly, it just makes it easier to open up a spot, you know? It's true. And it's not like we want to lose Daniel Day-Lewis. Daniel Day-Lewwis one of the great actors of our time but you don't want to make the most obvious list in the world you know so i fear we may have done that anyway but we'll see but we're trying and anyway so we are we are honoring daniel day lewis's wishes to be retired at this moment in time. Speaking of sort of retired,

Gwyneth Paltrow. Yes. Gwyneth Paltrow's, these are her last four film roles. I wonder how 29-year-old Gwyneth Paltrow would have reacted if you would have said that Gwyneth Paltrow in her late 40s and 50s would be doing this kind of work.

In 2017, she appeared in Spider-Man Homecoming as Pepper Potts. In 2018, she appeared in Spider-Man Homecoming as Pepper Potts. In 2018, she appeared in Coldplay, A Head Full of Dreams as herself. In 2018, she appeared in Avengers Infinity War as Pepper Potts. And in 2019, she was in Avengers Endgame as Pepper Potts. That's the sum total of her film work. How many days of work do you think that that encompasses? Fabulous question. Gotta be fewer than 50, right? film work how many days how many days of work do you think that that encompasses fabulous question

gotta be fewer than than 50 right oh i was gonna say 10 10 because i'm i feel like especially spider-man homecoming they tacked those on to some other movie that wasn't that was just like one extra day because it's one scene at the end right yeah it's a cameo i guess endgame and infinity war she had to spend some more time i suppose you could count it by the number of times because it's one scene at the end, right? Yeah, it's a cameo. I guess Endgame and Infinity War, she had to spend some more time. I suppose you could count it by the number of times she Instagrammed from the set

because she used to do that and she would just like be in the makeup chair being like, lol, isn't it funny that I do this again? Because obviously she now runs a large company that has been pretty successful

and gives great travel recommendations when we can all travel again. I just want people to know. Remember when she forgot she was in Spider-Man? That was one of the best things that ever happened. I really, I don't think, it wasn't that she forgot. I think that she just didn't really understand that that was a separate movie from whatever she was filming. We were actually doing it when we were filming Spider-Man. That was the first time. We just brought a film crew with us down to Atlanta and we cooked at the we were filming Spider-Man. That was the first time. We just brought a film crew with us down to Atlanta, and we cooked at the Optimist. Spider-Man?

Well, yeah, we were in Spider-Man together. Remember we were on Spider-Man? We weren't in Spider-Man. Yes, we were. Homecoming. You were in Spider-Man. No. Yeah.

I was in Avengers. No, you were in Spider-Man also. What? Remember Spider-Man at the end and and tom holland's there and you're gonna walk out and do a press conference i'll give you the race that was spider-man that was spider-man it's like me forgetting i worked at grantland you know it's just like i forgot it's one of the most widely seen things i've ever done i forgot whoops yeah it all happens to the best of us. Also retired,

Robert Redford. I think it's actually official now after the old man and the gun, there was some talk of him retiring and it does seem like he's not taking on new film roles here.

Okay. Despite the occasional appearance in Endgame. Oh, was he in Endgame? I remember he was in one of the Captain America ones. Very briefly in one of the

time travel sequences when they go back to the original Avengers movie, yada, yada. So, Redford is out and Gene Hackman, who hasn't made a movie

since Welcome to Mooseport, what feels like 300 years ago. Gene Hackman, one of my absolute favorite film actors of all time, not making this list.

He's number one in my heart, though. Is he? I love Gene Hackman so much. Okay. I watched Night Moves recently. Holy crap. What a great film.

What an absolutely devious film, too. Just awful about the heart of man. Ineligible. Three people have since turned 35 since we made our 35 under 35 list. So while they are great and we like them a lot and we're excited about their futures just for the purposes of having fun and adding to the list as you noted we're not going to include them here

they are gal gadot carrie mulligan and janelle monae yeah they've all starred in major films of late antebellum for janelle monae uh promising young woman for carrie mulligan and wonder woman 1984 for gal gadot your mileage may vary on those films please don't forget the dig did you watch the dig of course i did it starts carrie mulligan and ray fines i thought it was going to be english patient 2 until ray fines started talking and his accent was very different so yes yeah it was okay have you seen english patient 1 yet no okay that's that has now um now that i've seen the sound of Music, that's the one that has now stepped in. I got it.

You know, The English Patient is a little different because I've seen like 20 minutes of it in 10 different spots over the years. It's not like The Sound of Music, which I was basically just pretending doesn't exist. Okay. But I'll sit down and watch it. I love Anthony Minghella's other films. Yes. Talented Mr. Ripley, one of my favorites. Okay, this is some of the controversial stuff.

Not enough roles. These are the DQs here. This is like, oh my God this is this is a tough list if you worked at entertainment weekly in 2002 this like was entertainment weekly and uh these people are not making the list here you ready for this i yeah yeah go ahead george clooney part of this yeah george clooney i don't know what to say george Clooney is not a movie star anymore, at least according to the rules that we created, because he chooses not to be. He's raising a family. He sold his tequila brand.

He's doing great works on behalf of world relief funds. Not a movie star. He's directing? Yes. That's wonderful. And also, again, I feel crazy because a lot of people watch The Midnight Sky. And do you know why a lot of people watched The Midnight Sky?

It's because George Clooney was in it. And I assume that George Clooney was in the thumbnail that they clicked on. And yeah, he just hasn't been in that many other movies. His previous starring role before this was the film Money Monster. Right, which also is one of the credits on another person who did not otherwise make enough movies to make the list. We will get there. Next on the list is Christian Bale.

This is debatable, I think. And I want to be precise. I don't want to be imprecise about this, but Christian Bale doesn't work that much. He does have a role in the upcoming Thor movie coming up. Did you know that? No, but I just assume literally every person on this list role in the upcoming thor movie coming up did you know that no but i

just assume literally every person on this list is in the upcoming thor movie do you know how i compiled a lot of the credits for this outline that we did do you know how many times i wrote thor a lot of times um i guess technically this is unfair because bale was in hostiles in 2017 but that movie was basically held. It is more or less like an early 2016 movie in my mind. And then obviously Vice and Ford vs. Ferrari. So he technically does have three roles in that time, but

the only other movies that he even has on his plate at the moment are the Thor movie, which is not coming out until 2022. And we think, I don't even know if Black Widow is coming out in two months, so who the hell knows. And then an untitled David O. Russell film, which who knows when that's coming. He's not pursuant

of the same kind of movie stardom. In fact, he is, to me, a kind of glorified Daniel Day-Lewis style character actor in the movie star's body. That being said- But he was Batman. He was Batman, but his most recent Batman film

is now nine years old. So also the name of his character in Thor Love and Thunder is incredible. His character is named Gore the God Butcher. Okay. So I have a question about that for you. Do you think that means he is a butcherer of gods or that he is such a profound butcher that he has achieved God status? I think that he's a butcherer of gods or that he is such a profound butcher that he has achieved God status.

I think that he's a butcher of gods. I don't really, I don't know that like Thor love and what's it called? Thunder. Yes. Love and thunder. Thor. I told you,

I wrote it a lot this morning. I don't really know that they're doing internet slang in their naming conventions. Well, I don't mean like, like God like god status like like mob deep god body i mean like you know like the the mythological the profound the the true nature of existence you know the the being who creates beings no i just think he butchers gods and he's probably playing a small villain role because isn't also if you signed on to this as Christian Bale wouldn't you want to be the villain oh definitely

for sure this sounds it sounds fun I'm looking forward to that also not on the list Angelina Jolie yeah she is going to be in a movie on HBO max written and directed by Taylor Sheridan in a few months but she has not been in very many roles of late and primarily is working as a producer, writer and director. I believe these days. Yeah. Also not on the list. Sandra Bullock just hasn't been doing that much. Simply has not been making films. Sandra Bullock make more movies.

If, if you want. And if you're having a great time, didn't keep doing that because you've earned it. Also not on the list. Reese Witherspoon, which I mentioned because she primarily makes TV shows, some of which are good on HBO, others of which are not good on Hulu.

No disrespect to either of those services. I have seen all of them. I have also read many of the books that she has picked for her book club and then will also be adapting primarily into TV shows because that's what she does now. She's doing Legally Blonde 3 is happening. Is it? Maybe. Is it? I don't know. I see it listed everywhere, but I have no idea. I look forward is happening. Is it? Maybe. Is it? I don't know.

I see it listed everywhere, but I have no idea. I look forward to watching it if it does happen. Was it filmed? Are there set photos? What is the storyline? No, I don't think it's been. I think it's still like they're writing the script. Okay.

Are you writing the script for Legally Blonde 3? No, but if anybody needs a consultation, I'm available. That's true. A daughter of lawyers. Yes. And I'm Reese, I'm available. That's true. A daughter of lawyers. Yes. And Reese Witherspoon spiritually. That's true. And last but not least, Julia Roberts.

I think Julia Roberts is the name that is most closely associated with American movie star give or take a Tom Cruise in the last 25 years. And Julia Roberts don't make movies no more. Nope. Should she make more? In a way, I kind of, while I feel like Sandra Bullock should make more movies, I'm kind of proud of Julia Roberts for stepping away. Well, she and Sandra Bullock made a couple of not great choices in the mid-2010s. Yes. Including, what is it, Money Heist?

Is that what it's called? The George Clooney? No, Money Monster. Money Monster? I don't know. Money Heist, I believe, is a Netflix series, an international series about bank robberies. I somehow still have never seen Money Monster, even though we talk about it every three weeks on this podcast.

But there were just kind of a few missteps. And then she made Homecoming, which she seemed to enjoy and kind of is going the the tv way and also just so many of the female movie stars now just do tv she was also her her list of movies that she's made in the last decade is bizarre just very briefly ben is back remember ben is back she was good in ben is back yeah ben is back was okay it was okay but like their chemistry was i thought lucas hedges and julia yeah lucas hedges and julia roberts which in a lot of ways is what the film is about was like really affecting and upsetting and she was very good in it so i respect julia roberts for that you know she was also in the movie wonder the stephen chabosky movie uh which was about a

boy with uh treacher coll Collins Syndrome trying to fit in. And that movie was a huge hit. It was a really big hit. Now, it was a heartwarming family drama, the likes of which we don't usually cover on this show. And we weren't even doing the show when that movie came out. But it's a little overlooked. But before that, it's Money Monster and Mother's Day

and Secret in Their Eyes and August Osage County. And she was in a lull. She had a dip. Mirror, Mirror, remember that? a dip. Mirror, mirror. Remember that? Larry Crown. Oh, yeah. Love, wedding, marriage.

Eat, pray, love. I mean, it's also an interesting thing where a lot of the female movie stars in the 90s were, and specifically the white female movie stars were just rom-com stars. And the romantic comedy took a dip. And they also aged out of Hollywood's idea of who can be a romantic comedy star. And so the kind of next stage roles for that kind of stardom didn't really exist, but there's a lot to do on TV. It's almost like the system does not respect women. Mm-hmm. Okay. Those are the biggest DQs that I could think of.

We're not going to talk about our toughest cuts yet. We're going to hold off on that completely because there's two strata of toughest cuts. There's, are we really

leaving this person off? Like, are we really going to make a list like this and not include this person? We'll go through all of that in the next episode. There's a second

category, which is the sort of emeritus icon status, where there's a person who is still active, but belongs to an elite class of historical movie star, but that isn't really at the height of their powers. And despite the fact that they are continuing to earn money, which they're more than entitled to, they're not really doing either their best work or for the most part, the work that they're going to be remembered for so we didn't include some of those people but we'll go through all those people in the next episode as well we did pick we did have a couple of international picks

on the 35 under 35 i thought that would be useful here to just shout out a couple of people because for the most part these are all american-born or english-born actors who primarily act speaking english so there's a we could do a whole other episode about all the great actors in Europe, a whole episode about all the great actors in Asia. We're not doing that. For the most part, we're focusing primarily on English speakers. Who's your international pick? Javier Bardem, which I can't even believe that... I mean, because he works in so many Hollywood films. And I don't know. I just still am mad he didn't win an Oscar for Skyfall. And so I will keep nominating him for every single award that I can give him.

Does it feel like he's taken a step back in the last few years? I felt like he was making a bid at just genuine American movie stardom. And now it does feel like he has returned to making films in Spain. And he made a film with Asghar Farhadi. restart him. And now it does feel like he has, you know, returned to making films in Spain and, you know, he made a film with Asghar Farhadi and it does seem like he is reducing in some respects. Yeah. I mean, I guess he hasn't really signed up for like a giant franchise. He obviously did a James Bond villain role and then has done smaller movies, some of which we really liked, but that's like one thing that we're going to have to contend with on this list is that pretty much everybody has a recent franchise credit to

their name. It's just how it works. And so if you don't want to do that, then I have to give you the international award on a technicality. My international pick is Zhao zhao tao who is the um a long time uh chinese actress and the wife of jia shanke the incredible chinese filmmaker um her performance in ash's purest white from that year is like among the best movie performances i've ever seen in my life and she pretty much exclusively makes movies with her husband at this point but those last three movies are a touch of sin mountains made apart and ash's pure those last three movies are A Touch of Sin, Mountains Made Apart, and Ash's Purest White. His movies are fantastic. They are having the kind of director-actress relationship

that is actually very rare in Hollywood that you don't see that much these days that feels more a memory of the star system back in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. She's phenomenal. Okay. The list. She's phenomenal. Okay. The list.

This was hard. There's not a lot of women that are having success in mainstream movies. And some of that, I think, is due to the franchise thing that you just identified. Some of that is due to,

obviously, just the nature of Hollywood and who can be kind of successful. And also, Hollywood history as well. because 35 over 35, you have people from different generations. So even if we're making, quote, small strides, which, you know, not enough in my opinion, but there are people who are just dealing with stuff in the 60s and 70s and 80s who are also eligible for this list. It's harder to build up a power base over time. And it's harder to make the case that, say, Jane Fonda is an elite movie star right now.

That doesn't mean that she wasn't one of the elite movie stars of the 60s, 70s, and 80s because she was. She was literally a box office draw. She was a significant celebrity force. She was an activist force. She's as famous as anybody. She was later an exercise videotape phenomenon. But right now,

even though she still appears in movies, she's not, she's not really, doesn't really fit the quote unquote criteria of what we're describing. And part of that is like

the sexism of Hollywood and part of it is just maybe even how she wants to spend her time. I mean, she also did a major TV series for Netflix and that's how she spent some of her time. Exactly. Which is true of obviously a bunch of the other men and women that we just identified. So let's start the list. Who's, who's number 35? A man named Chris Evans. One of the Chris's just squeaking in at 35. Not the top Chris not the top Chris

but not the lowest rank Chris also without spoiling things how many Chris's of the four Chris's did we include I believe two

that's right just two or four Chris's whether that will be controversial we shall see Chris of course Chris Evans will be Buzz Lightyear in the film Buzz Lightyear,

which is based on the tweet that Chris Evans tweeted about Buzz Lightyear movies being based on the real Buzz Lightyear and not the Buzz Lightyear toy from the Toy Story movies. Did I get that right? Oh, yeah. God bless. Brings me joy. Chris Evans was Captain America for a long number of years and maybe will be again soon because there was a rumor that he was going to be and then Chris Evans cryptically tweeted that he wouldn't be.

But I don't know. I like Captain America. I'm a fan of those movies. Nice to have him back there. He's great in Knives Out and I kind of wish he would just do that shitheel thing

a little bit more. And I think he's really kind of gifted at that. Can I tell you, I think he has a chance to, this is going to can i tell you i think he has a chance to this is going to seem weird but i think he has a chance to market correct kevin spacey you know it's like kevin spacey is gone right he's been banished forever he's a terrible person but there is a kind of like sardonic quick-witted kind of like asshole, but occasionally very warm type of character that Kevin Spacey portrayed

and became best known for. I think this is actually Evans' lane. I don't think Evans' lane is to be the next Tom Hanks. I don't think it's to be the next Arnold Schwarzenegger. I think that there's something in the fast-talking character parts

that could work for him. You don't seem to agree with this. I do accept it and i and i say this respectfully and objectively like chris evans is extremely handsome and it's just like a very conventional you know let's make a running joke about captain america's ass sort of way and so you know there are a lot of handsome guys who have kind of made their way to character actors through the years, notably. You could say Brad Pitt, but I think Brad Pitt has a very different energy and has managed that tension a bit more. I don't think that Chris Evans can ever just be

in this side of the frame. That's not his looks and not his energy either. That said, I am one of the only people in America who has seen every episode of Defending Jacob, the TV series that he developed for himself on Apple, in order to be kind of... He's like a conflicted dad and a former, I believe, DA. He's like a lawyer, whatever. And that didn't work

either. So I'd like it when he leans into his mean or assholish side a bit more. But I don't know. He's stuck in a leading man's body, unfortunately. So two things about this. One, the best thing I've seen him do in the last five years is his performance in Lobby Hero, which is a revival of the kenneth lonergan play on broadway he was very good in that play which is an interesting piece of work and even more interesting in the aftermath of what's happened in america in the last three years and about what it's you know he plays a police officer and not a very nice police officer at that um and he was terrific in that and that's a character part and i think he should pursue more character parts. Secondly, I think what he should do is get fat.

I think he should just eat a lot of bread. I think he should eat a lot of cheese. I think he should not be quite as humanly perfect as he is. Okay. In an effort to evolve. Now, he doesn't need any advice from me. I'm just an asshole in front of a microphone. And frankly, I don't know the first thing about how to be a good movie star

or a good actor. So far be it from me to give this guy life advice. But just imagine the kind of attention he would get if he gained 50 pounds. You know, you put on a bald, fur roll, you know, pulled the Christian Bale. People are gonna

want to reward that. They're gonna be like, this guy gave us so much as Captain America. Now it's time to recognize him as a great actor. Okay. So get fat, Chris Evans. Somebody make a t-shirt out of that. Who's number 34?

Number 34 is Anne Hathaway. I'm going to keep calling her Anne even though in her latest press tour she did a whole thing about like she was like, please call me Annie. I didn't understand when I filled out my SAG card that that's what people would call me for the rest of time. But like, even there, I couldn't tell whether that was a talk show bit or real. So I'm just gonna be,

I don't know her personally. So respectfully, it'll be Anne Hathaway, who is committed to the movie format and has been in a tremendous number of very successful movies, including The Dark Knight Rises, Interstellar, The Devil Wears Prada. Les Miserables, which I don't know how successful it was, but it was successful to her because she won an Oscar. That's right. You may know her from The Princess Diaries. Really important series of films. And do you know Julie Andrews is in that? That you know who Julie Andrews is?

Yeah, she's Maria in The Sound of Music, right? Yeah, congratulations. How do you solve a problem like Maria? I still can't figure it out. It's a great song. It's very funny. Okay. And like a ton of other movies, obviously.

Like most recently, Lock recently locked down some good movies like the intern and rachel getting married and then some other movies like i mean i'll just read this is important because this is why she's at 34 and not higher here is the 2020 and 2019 and 2018. Okay? I'm going 2018. Ocean's 8, which I like that they tried it, but... She's great in it. And she's fantastic in it. And listen...

The movie is not very good, but she is phenomenally funny in that movie. She's good in a lot of things in many of the movies that I'm about to list, but I don't know what to tell you when I read this list. Okay? Okay.

Ocean's 8, Serenity, The H waters the last thing he wanted the witches and then locked down forgot about the witches yeah and she's she's she's she makes the best of bad movies which is something i like about she is you know she's criticized at times for being a try hard theater kid but i think that's her best quality she gives a shit she's going for it same thing with dark waters i think actually she's in a different movie than some of the other people in that movie which is i think a quite a good film but she's she's like screw it this is my time to give a speech i'm speech are fine. I will defend super high-strung brunette actresses until the end of time, okay? And that comes from a place of respect and empathy, and it takes one to know one for sure.

But it's been a tough run, and it's a little bit, you know, sometimes you pick the right things, and sometimes you pick the wrong things. but just the way the industry is changing i would say a lot of her peers have just moved to tv and she has not and the kind of the upcoming projects that she has are the james gray movie armageddon time and you know upcoming for all of these is like pandemic willing yeah exactly up in the air but this other do you know about bum's rush i didn't know about this till i was the first i've heard of it sure me too but i'm just gonna read the log line which is the story focuses on the relationship between anne hathaway's bootmaker and a stray dog named bum to be voiced by mill bill murray hmm this this isn't an animated film? I don't know. I don't think so.

Bums Rush. It was described as a canine drama. And then I just moved on. Okay. This sounds fake. This sounds like a fake movie in I'm Thinking of Ending Things, frankly. Right. Wow, fascinating.

Okay. I love Anne Hathaway. I wish nothing Hathaway. I wish nothing but the best. If her goal is to be the best part of not great films, she's crushing it. I hope she takes on some better work. And frankly, if she's working with James Gray,

great sign. Number 33. I don't know if this is controversial or not, but it's Matt Damon. Matt Damon is definitely one of our favorites on this show, but he is in a bit of a rut. and he may be coming out of that rut shortly. And we can talk about that based on the films he has coming up. But while Ford versus Ferrari is a very good movie prior to Ford versus Ferrari, he was mostly working as a as a cameo master in movies like Deadpool 2 and Unane and Thor Ragnarok. And then prior to that, his two most recent starring roles were in Downsizing, an Alexander Payne movie that I'm fond of, but that most people think is bad, and Suburbicon, a George

Clooney movie that I think is bad, and so do most other people. So Matt Damon is not really at that Jason Bourne, the Martian, you know, subverting conventional parts to do something interesting with his movie star status phase. He's in a quiet moment. Now, he does have The Last Duel and Thor Love and Thunder

and the new Tom McCarthy movie, Stillwater, coming very soon. Stillwater and The Last Duel were both supposed to be released in 2020. So, if they're not finished, they are at least close to completion. And then after that, he's in the Steven Soderbergh movie, No Sudden Move. So he's got a killer lineup of movies coming out. But at the moment, while Ford vs. Safari was good, I think he actually was quite outshined by Christian Bale in that movie. And it's an interesting, is this the lowest he's been? Maybe in the Elysium times he was lower. But for the most part,

Matt's been on top for about 20 years here. Yeah. When I gave a speech about how this list reflects this moment in time that we were making the list, it was about Matt Damon

because he does feel like the tide is about to rise again or that he's just going to be back in our lives with a lot more movies that we're interested in, which is kind of the point of this. I will also say, you know, I mentioned telling my husband about this project and I was like, who do you think should be on the list? And the first person he said was Matt Damon. And I kind of responded with like, I don't know. Are you sure? It's been a tough couple of years. And then he just started yelling at me. So if you also want to yell at us,

know that we hear you. And I mean, the list of movies that Matt Damon has been in is extraordinary. Just like he is, he picks maybe the, except for the last few years, like the best projects of anyone like Impactful Taste. Yeah.

I mean, you're a huge fan of the Great Wall, of monuments men of the zero theorem we bought a zoo you're huge we bought a zoo fan god i i that was so funny i i vividly remember the year after did you like that film invictus i said except for the last few years sean the list of films i just named spans 12 years. I love Matt Damon. Matt Damon is great. Matt Damon is actually quite daring

in the kinds of films that he pursues and that is actually quite risky, but he does make great movies. And he strikes me as kind of like Harrison Ford. You know, like he basically every two to three years can bounce back from a Random Hearts or a Six Days and Seven Nights

by making a What Lies Beneath or an Air Force One. You know, he's got a kind of versatility as an action leading man, as a dramatic actor. He can dabble in franchise stuff, Ocean's movies. He pops up in Christopher Nolan films. He's really versatile.

He's a handsome white guy with a track record. You're usually in a good spot if you have that going for you in Hollywood. Also, just in terms of fame management and being a household name, but never really being too personal, frankly, in public. And he has managed to avoid a lot of the paparazzi shenanigans that also follow other people of his generation specifically his very good friend ben affleck but you know he like he figured out how to be just public and likable and know enough um without kind of getting into the real up and down roller coaster that some of that tabloid

fame can involve and people do love him i it's matt damon we feel bad that it's 33 matt damon is dope he'll be back he'll be he'll be in the top 10 in the next three years i guarantee people do love him. It's Matt Damon. We feel bad that it's 33. Matt Damon is dope. He'll be back. He'll be in the top 10 in the next three years, I guarantee you. Number 32, Mahershala Ali. Is Mahershala Ali

as great a movie star as Matt Damon? Probably not. Is he on track to replicate the kind of career that someone like Matt Damon had?

Yes. He has two Oscars in three years. He is consistently one of the most likable presences in movies that we have right now. And he's about to be Blade.

So in a Marvel movie that is probably going to be a massive fucking hit. Love Mahershala. I don't even know what to say. He's like just a person you're consistently happy to see and also similarly raises

mediocre shit like Green Book. Yes. He does have some TV credits. I mean, most notably True Detective, which he kind of did as a detour before going back to movies. But he still seems committed enough to the movie form. And also, you know, two Oscars in three years. And we really like him. Yeah, I think signing on for a marvel project kind of indicates where he's going and that's the kind of movie that basically supercharges somebody and puts

them in the center of the frame similar sort of situation here i think maher shalali and steven are paired together they are both we sort of first saw them in tv work and then they they distinguished themselves by having great taste in terms of the movie artists that they started to work with. In the case of Steven Yeun, he worked with Boots Riley in Sorry to Bother You. He worked with Bong Joon-ho in Okja. He was in Burning, Lee Jong-dong's film in 2018. And now he is the star of Minari and is a contender for best actor. Those are some of the better movies that were released in the last five years. And he was just featured in a big profile in the New York Times Magazine recently. And this is a person who is on the precipice of something. He's 37 years old.

He's kind of the right age to be emerging into this space. And he also has the status of if you know his name, you like him. Everybody is like, oh, I like him. I want to see him do more stuff. Love Steven Yeun. It feels like his moment is right now. It's happening. And I think especially with Burning and Minari, two of the greatest performances in movies in the last couple of years.

So it's exciting to watch. And it does seem like it's just outlook very good. What would you want him like because he obviously is working with a tours. He's got great taste. He's very conscientious. I think about his role as one of the very

precious few Asian American actors who has been like spotlit in this way. And I think he knows that there's responsibility to that. Now historically

somebody like him who has had this kind of success takes a part like blade and says I'm going gonna do two things with that one i'm gonna cash in because it's usually very a good business decision to start a film like that to become world to you know have worldwide fame but then secondarily if you're

if you are if you feel representation is important this is a way to amplify the representation of an actor like like like Yen. So what do you think he's going to do? Cause he's already been in the franchise world with the walking dead. Walking dead. Yeah. I don't want to begrudge him a movie franchise just because I would prefer to see him do kind of, you know,

interesting dramas and or romantic comedy, because listen, my answer to every single actor who I like, who I, you know, what do I want them to do? I'd like them to make a really great romantic comedy, because listen, my answer to every single actor who I like, who I, you know, what do I want them to do? I'd like them to make a really great romantic comedy. But you have a better sense of like the available franchise stuff out there.

If that's what he wants to do, I support him. And, and to the extent that that does further careers, which the rest of this list definitely proves it does. you know, I hope he has every opportunity he wants. We haven't seen that much subversion of characters, canon franchise characters,

for Asian American actors. It's just frankly uncommon. There's been a slow drip towards, say, Black actors getting the chance to play parts for characters that were historically portrayed as white. Asian American, that is a whole new barrier. And, you know, I think Steven Yeun is the kind of guy who could crack it. You know, Henry Golding is doing a very similar thing. He is, you know, he's getting parts that someone like him would not have been able to get 10, 20, 50 years ago. So we'll see what he does.

Very interested. I think he is consistently great. Now, who's number 30? 30 is Lupita Nyong'o, who is 37 years old, which I was surprised. And I mean, I'll just read it. Obviously, 12 Years a Slave,

for which she won an Oscar. Black Panther, Us, and lesser roles, but still roles in the Star Wars movies. So that's major franchise check. That's original drama that made a ton of money at the blockbuster check. That is another franchise check, which didn't include Black Panther, and a drama and an Oscar. Kind of having the ideal career, think in a way I mean us to me was a confirmation for her where she's the star of that movie she's playing two parts in that movie if that movie was released in November and not in

February she would have been nominated for an Academy Award she's an incredible performer she's also doing that thing that Matt Damon, you pointed out that Matt Damon does, which is like, we don't know a whole lot about her. She's not, she's not in the, in the, at the foreground of celebrity culture. And I think that that's a big benefit to her because it seems like she wants to take on challenging parts while also having a, basically a profitable career by appearing in these franchise movies. And, you know, her next film is going to be, is the three 55 is a simon kinberg all-female spy movie starring jessica chastain and so she's doing

mainstream stuff but she's not mainstreaming her personality which i think is pretty savvy on her part yes i would agree in addition to the 355 she is um starring in a TV adaptation of Americana, the Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie novel, which is one of the best novels of the 21st century, in my opinion. And I really recommend it. And I'm excited to see that and excited that that's happening in a TV format, even if it means that she's not making a movie. That is a type of thing where I think 20 years ago, that would be a movie.

And now it's a TV series, but I'm still excited about it. I'm a little bit less excited about number 29. And it's a complicated thing because, as you pointed out to me, this person is absolutely still at the center of Hollywood in many ways. Gets a lot of great parts. Everyone likes her.

No one says, I hate her. I've never heard a single person say, I hate number 29 Amy Adams. But Amy Adams has not been making so many good movies lately. She was in Hillbilly Elegy last year which obviously was roundly rejected although she was recognized for her work by the golden globes um was she or was she recognized only the sag awards was it sag or was it the golden globes i thought that it was sag and i thought glenn close was recognized for both golden globes and hillbilly elegy yes it was the sag hordes You're right.

She was not recognized by the Golden Globes, which I don't mean. Frankly, the SAG Awards are more respectable. So that's very strange to me. She's also going to be in the

Snyder Cut and she's going to be in the Woman in the Window, the dumped Joe Wright movie that is appearing on Netflix, which seems to have gone through many a reshoot over the years. Amy Adams, you know, probably near the top of the why hasn't she won an Oscar list she's also a person who has dipped her toes into television with sharp objects in recent years but seems a little off track

I would say yeah a little bit having a reputational coast at the moment not that she isn't working hard but you know she does get nominated for films like vice when they happen but like i don't know i don't know vice was like her best work ever um what do you what do you think about amy adams right now it's like i suggested that she moved down to number 29 because she's it's it might be kind of just like you know a scheduling um issue where you get stuck with, well, she chose to do Hilla Lily Elegy. And I don't really know what to say about that, except that I didn't respect that movie or really that performance, to be quite honest. But it's not, I don't think Amy Adams asked for the Snyder Cut. You know what I'm saying?

Like, I don't know that she was one of the people hashtagging. I'll tell you what, I love the idea of her asking for it. I love the idea of the Snyder Cut originating with Amy Adams and saying, frankly, this is an abomination, Zach, that you have not had a chance to make your four-hour film. So here's a question that you might not have the answer to. How much money does Amy Adams get for the Snyder Cut? I mean, I know you don't have the exact answer. You're asking me to hack into her bank account?

I don't know. No, but like, you know, for something that is reconstituted primarily, she wasn't involved in the reshoots, or was she? I'm genuinely not sure. We're going to find out very soon when we watch the Snyder Cut together. Okay. She was definitely paid somewhere between $50 million and $1. Okay. She was definitely paid somewhere between $50 million and $1. Okay.

I don't, I don't, I'm not sure what the number is. That's Amy Adams. Amy Adams is very similar to Matt Damon. She could be in the top 10 two years from now, but right now she ain't. Yeah. Number 28. Who's number 28? Oscar Isaac.

So this is, this to me was like not controversial and I kind of thought that he should be higher and then you just have some emotional stuff that you want to work through on this podcast so we can talk about it. We'll just go ahead and talk about what Oscar Isaac has been. Obviously, some Star Wars movies.

Also, Annihilation, Ex Machina, Inside Louis Davis. Triple frontier, ladies and gentlemen. You know, and some other stuff that was good and some stuff that was not good. Upcoming, Dune. Maybe you've heard of it. I sure have. Still don't totally know what it's about or where I'll be seeing it, but a lot of people seem to really care.

It's about worms. Okay. The Card Counter. a Paul Schrader movie starring Oscar Isaac. I don't understand why you're making this face at me right now. My most anticipated movie of 2021. Also Armageddon Time, the James Gray movie. My second or third most anticipated movie of 2021. Metal Gear Solid, which I don't know what that is, but I'm sure you'll tell me. It's a video game. It's an adaptation.

He's playing a character named Snake something. Hold on. I'm going to find this out. Just give me one second. Oh, my God. This is important. While you do this, I just want to say. Oh, Solid Snake is the name of his character.

Do you want to know anything about Solid Snake? His real name is David. He's also known as Old Snake and briefly known as iroquois plissken or simply snake he was a former spy and special operations soldier and mercenary check this out amanda he has an iq of 180 and is fluent in six languages and he is known as the man low if you're gonna make a movie about him his nickname is the man who makes the impossible possible sounds great he's clearly fashioned after snake plissken the kurt russell character from escape from new york okay metal gear solid there's there's one more upcoming project that i'm just going to cede the floor

to you for i just want to note that in addition to all this um you know sort of a an early like quote internet boyfriend but someone who you know has been in a lot of like worked with a lot of great directors and has been in a lot of films that we really respect has also been in a lot of successful franchise films also has kind of like his own version of celebrity that has kind of not invented but like he's become famous in the last 10 years and it's very hard to become famous for doing movies in 2021. So he rounds out the profile, in my opinion. Sean, go ahead. Well, I like how you put that.

I like how you characterized him and the decision he made. I think he's very similar to Lupita Nyong'o, which is that he has a good sensibility for what are the serious and important works that he wants to do and how can he support those projects and decisions by participating in franchise films. Now, one of the ways he's doing that is by appearing in the Moon Knight television series

for Marvel for Disney. Now, you know I like Marvel. You know I like Oscar Isaac. Also appearing in Moon Knight, Ethan Hawke. You know how I feel about Ethan Hawke. I do. Moon Knight is basically,

for lack of a better term, Marvel's Batman. He is the nighttime detective style figure who has like superpowers and a mythical backstory. Kind of a cool character, but definitely like a C-teamer in the history of Marvel. Like, not a famous

character by any stretch. Now, I don't begrudge anybody getting money. I don't begrudge anybody putting on a cape and cowl. Frankly, I like it when people do that. I don't want Oscar Isaac making a TV show. This is the exact kind of a person who I'm like, I just wish this guy was only in movies.

That's just for me. I don't want him and the same with ethan hawke ethan hawke made the good lord bird last year an adaptation of a james mcbride novel it's a really cool show i just wish there were ethan hawke movies that's just that's a tick of mine and i see the card counter coming up and i see armageddon time and i'm so excited. I see Metal Gear Solid and I'm less excited, but I get it. And I'll participate in that. I'll participate in the Metal Gear Solid moment on this podcast. And I see Moon Knight and I'm like, I guess I'm watching that. But like, it feels so perfunctory. We already watched Oscar Isaac and his relationship to Star Wars get weird where he basically was like so excited to not be a part of that universe anymore

because he didn't like where they took that story and what it meant in terms of like acting in front of a green screen and yada yada and then he plunges himself right back into the system so I just it's I find it a little strange I mean sure but it's also just how you're a movie star in 2021 and I'm a tv star well by doing it on the side you're gonna have asked you know side projects and things that you do as much to stay famous and to be able to do the paul schrader movie than anything else and it's like you know we used to we used to judge or not even allow tv stars to become movie stars we used to to be so Catholic about that. And now, like, I don't understand why we have to do it the same way. Just let them be great. I also just

personally want to say to you again, just like, enjoy the things that you enjoy. You have to stop like throwing hurdles in front of your own happiness. Okay. I just, I like, I feel this way. Even I'm thinking about the WandaVision conversation. It's just like They're gonna give you something and you don't have to feel guilty about it. You can just say okay. Thank you. I like this This is why I don't go to therapy, you know, okay. I've got you here to support me in these emotional matters Who's number 27 Tessa Thompson Feel good about this one. I feel feel good about this one I feel really good about this one she might even

be a little low and this is one when you're just going through the credits it's just like oh yeah you have been in absolutely everything

obviously all the Thor movies one of the many times I typed typed Thor on this outline Creed and Creed 2 Men in Black International

which was not good but you know she tried. More recently, Sylvie's Love. Obviously, she was in Annihilation. She was in Sorry to Bother You. She was in Selma and Dear White People. She is in Passing, which we saw at Sundance and will be released later this year on Netflix. And she will be in more Thor and more Creed. She's got her foot in both worlds. And I think maybe we're revealing our biases here, but we tend to like the people that keep their feet in both worlds. Now, the people who are in the top 20

are not necessarily as interested in doing that. A handful of them are, but they are more mainstream, sticking to the old Hollywood pursuit of stardom because, frankly, there's no going in any other direction for some of these folks. But for the top 35 through 20, I think we're rewarding people in some respects for their willingness to jump from indie to franchise and back again, and that fluidity that I think is now more common amongst actors in their 30s. Well, I think that's the only way you can really be a movie star. I mean, you know,

Tessa Thompson is a great example of someone who uses like a smaller part in Thor to kind of grow her parts in Thor. And she's like, she's the girlfriend in Creed and she's very good in it. But then keeps growing all of her franchise commitments and then chooses to do annihilation and passing and sorry to bother you. And we'll keep doing the types of movies that we really like. I mean, it is like a one for them, one for me situation,

but that is how you become famous and successful and get those other movies made. And like, I think she probably has a lot of reason successful and get those other movies made. And I think she probably is a lot of reason that those smaller movies do get made. And that's cool. And I think that the true stars of Thor Love and Thunder, which is the most referenced film in this podcast so far, are really Tessa Thompson and Natalie Portman. Those are the two, you know, obviously Chris Hemsworth is Thor, but it sounds like it's really going to be more of a team up between those two characters, which is exciting. I mean, that's, and that's unusual in Marvel films for there to,

to be foregrounding two women like that. Have you been following just the set photos and the paparazzi coverage of Thor at 11th under, well, you know, it's filming in Australia because they can film in Australia right now because they've, you know, kind of managed COVID-19. And so just all paparazzi photos and all celebrity content now comes from Australia because that's the only place where they can congregate. And it just seems like Australia is just the best party in the world right now that none of us are invited to. And I really do think that that makes me more excited for this Thor movie that otherwise I'd be like, eh, whatever. But they all seem to be having a fantastic time. Quick detour here inspired by how much fun everyone's having in Australia.

Here's what I'm doing tonight. I am ordering a pizza. I'm probably going to have about 20 to 30 minute conversation with my wife about what kind of pizza to get. Probably going to scroll around HBO Max and Netflix for about 40 minutes before making a decision we can agree on. And then we're going to pick something and then Eileen's going to fall asleep 40 minutes into it. And then I'm going to turn on probably like a really violent movie from the 70s. Does that sound like a cool night? Definitely on par with what's happening in Australia. They should make an MCU movie about that too. Very excited for Tessa Thompson. And frankly, I'm very excited for Australia. To all of our Australian listeners out there,

thank you. I have heard from you in the past. We love you very much. I hope you guys are getting rip-roaring drunk in a safe space together and that you are free of COVID-19. Who's number 26? A man named Daniel Craig.

Here he is. So this... I had him lower than i should have and that's on me i was very surprised to see that you had left him out of the first round of this i just kind of forgot all of the great movies that he's in besides you know i'm so fixated on justice for skyfall i'm like i don't know what my problem is. Also, guys, I just have had to say goodbye to No Time to Die. I'll see it when I see it. And that day will be the most glorious day. I can't wait. We'll be reunited. But I've just had my heart broken too many times at this point. I got to put some distance between us. So I guess I just put some distance between me and Daniel Craig as well.

But here's the thing. Daniel Craig is James Bond. And he's also in other really great movies, including Knives Out, Logan Lucky, The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, and maybe eventually Knives Out 2 when it comes out. So he's very famous and very good in all of those films. And I like him a lot. I'm most excited for his post bond career. Cause I think knives out obviously tipped us off to the kind of fun he wants

to have. You know, if you watch him on Saturday night live, you see that he's after a different kind of career than, you know, punching German spies in the throat and then, you know, romancing Eva green.

So I really liked Daniel Craigig he really just barely made the cut here he made logan lucky in 2017 he made knives out in 2019 he made a film called kings which i will admit to never having heard of which co-stars hallie berry in 2017 i guess it was released in 2018 here in the states And that's pretty much it going back to Spectre in 2015. So obviously No Time to Die was supposed to come out. It hasn't. Technically, he would have fit the bill here, but he works pretty sparingly. Yeah. I mean, he's done eight press cycles for No Time to Die. So in that sense, he's like, you know what? Do another one in October or whenever the hell we're allowed to see it and I will consume all the content I just I don't

know do you think he's the hottest person in the 30 to 35 to 20 lineup that we have here well that seems really unfair a lot of hot people in here it's like pretty much all hot people I didn't include that as a

qualification but I think being hot is important yeah again it's movie stars. We are a superficial people in a superficial world and movies are also visual things. So yes, but I don't need to pick up. I'm all about the soul. I'm all about emotions and creativity. I'm not about hotness.

Okay. Congratulations. Inner beauty. That's what I'm about. Okay. That's why I've chosen Ryan Reynolds as number 25. I'm about innerness. Okay. Congratulations. Inner beauty. That's what I'm about. Okay. That's why I've chosen Ryan Reynolds as number 25. I'm about inner beauty.

I don't know how I feel about our selection here about Ryan Reynolds because on the one hand as you pointed out to me this morning this guy's in a lot of really successful movies.

He is probably in a weird way one of the three or four most quote unquote bankable movie stars in the last five years which is really funny because for the preceding 10 years, there was probably no actor who had more anxiety about whether or not he was ever going to be that than Ryan Reynolds.

But he is a testament to commitment and fortitude because he never gave up and he eventually found his Deadpool. He found his franchise. He found his weird action movies. He found Pikachu. He literally grabbed Pikachu. Did you see Pikachu? I did. I saw it in theaters by myself. You know, on the one hand, it was

like a very sweet homage to Humphrey Bogart movies. On the other hand, it was definitely a Pokemon movie that I saw by myself on like a Tuesday. So don't really know what to do about that. It's just like you saying Pokemon and Pokemon

names is like the funniest thing. I just... Do you know any more Pokemon names that you can say and I can laugh? I actually don't. Okay. Grab don't okay grab them all get them all what's the phrase collect them all i don't know okay i don't really know about pokemon either you know i i think back to 2001 and sitting in uh my first film theory class and you know we just watched raise the red lantern and we're talking about z Yimou and international cinema and thinking about what I want to do with my life.

Talk about Pokemon on a pod. That was what I wanted to do. That was my life's aspiration. So I think that you feel bad about this because I don't even want to call Ryan Reynolds a sellout because I don't think that that's what it is. He has just figured out his version of success and he is like extremely successful.

Um, and there is not, well, I do think that there's art to it, but he's mostly given up on doing like kind of the, or, or tour movies or like things on the side. He's just,

you know, going for a box office success. But he makes the type of movies that you do like. And so I feel like you feel bad about it, but that's okay. Just enjoy it. I really like the Deadpool movies. I've talked about this before.

I think maybe against my own better judgment, I like them because I like that they are a little bit more self-aware than some of their counterparts. But he does a lot of stuff. He does a lot of hidden hits. You know, he's the star of a movie called The Hitman's Bodyguard, which I have never seen. It was released in 2016. And that movie stars Ryan Reynolds, Sam Jackson, Gary Oldman, and Salma Hayek.

That's a pretty great cast. It's an action movie that made $200 million. And I haven't seen it. But he is someone who is kind of ubiquitous in the movie landscape. And it's never really talked about come awards time. There's no prestige attached to Ryan Reynolds. He is a celebrity. He's a funny guy and he's in hits and that's it.

And like that does matter. That is a very much a version of the kind of fame that we're trying to identify here. You know, our producer Bobby Wagner has asked me to say the name of a Pokemon character here that is apparently called Squirtle, which I imagine is some sort of squirting turtle. Can anyone confirm or deny that? I think I saw a gif of them once. Say it. Do it. Bobby's just putting Pokemon names into the chat.

No, I'm not. I'm not saying any more names. Let's just change our podcast to this. I'm not a ventriloquist dummy for Pokemon names, okay? I refuse. Instead, I will talk about Deadpool movies as if they matter. Bobby, these can't be real. Charizard?

Is that a real thing? So Pokemon characters are just like half of one name and half of another name put together? That'd be like Shamanda. I just... Is that a Pokemon? I don't know. Okay, let's keep moving. This is getting out of hand.

Number 24, another white dude, Chris Hemsworth. Yeah. You feel good about this? I was debating whether to put Ryan Reynolds above Hemsworth or below Hemsworth. Because Chris Hemsworth is also in just a lot of really successful movies at this point. But he's just like, he's floating the MCU wave in like a big way. And, you know, props to him for doing that.

He seems to be like the host of the never-ending party in Australia for Thor. So that's cool. He's very famous. of the never-ending party in Australia for Thor. So that's cool. He's very famous. People like those movies. I think he's good in those movies. I think Extraction was a big one for him because he's one of the few people who has been able to translate that mainstream

I-only-appear-in-Hollywood-movie stardom to a streamer movie that did seem to have, make some impact in the amongst movie going audiences. You know, a lot of people watched extraction. Obviously they effectively made a franchise out of it. There will definitely be another extraction movie whenever they can make

one. And you know, that's notable. I mean, he has dipped his toe in a lot of different kinds of franchises over the years to some not necessarily super strong returns, primarily thinking of Ghostbusters and the Huntsman movies,

which may as well have never happened. There's no conversation about any of those movies right now. I would just like to say that I thought he was very funny in the Ghostbusters movie. Yeah. Yeah, he's frequently very funny.

Yes. But now it feels like with... Basically, Thor Ragnararok i think in some respects like saved him i think it basically allowed for him to be not just a guy that people like i think i like that guy you know what does he do and he they basically identified that he is he's burt reynolds you know he's he's a great action star who's pretty funny and charming and he was not allowed to be as funny and charming, I think, in a lot of films before Ragnarok.

So good on Taika Waititi, I guess, for identifying that and putting him in that position to succeed. And now we'll see what he does. You know, you pointed out that he may be playing Hulk Hogan in a Hulk Hogan biopic by Todd Phillips. I don't know if that movie is going to happen, but that's ingenious casting.

He will be great as Hulk Hogan. I can't wait for that movie is going to happen, but that's ingenious casting. He will be great as Hulk Hogan. I can't wait for that if they actually do that. Number 23. Who do we got? Emily Blunt. The Queen Emily Blunt. Too low for her here? Did we do right by her?

I think it's okay. I think that we did well. And it's just a little bit because of of where she is and really kind of the movies that are upcoming haven't come out yet some of them obviously a quiet place too delayed by the pandemic was jungle cruise delayed by the pandemic or amongst other things yes okay yes um jungle cruise which you know say what will, but that is like a major franchise starting movie with Disney IP also starring The Rock. So, and then. And directed by the great Yom Colet-Sara of Liam Neeson film fame.

And The Shallows. Did you ever see The Shallows during Bleak Lively? No, but I remember you guys talking about it passionately. So it's almost like I've seen it. Pretty dope movie. Yeah. Okay. You know, and obviously she is in, I'm just going to read kind of her calling card, A

Quiet Place, Edge of Tomorrow, Sicario, and Mary Poppins Returns, which again, say what you will, but like she played Mary Poppins, which that's like a really big deal. And she was very good. I thought, even if the movie didn't really know what it was doing. So I guess A Quiet Place is a franchise like she's not a superhero. You know, she's done other things like she was in one of the Huntsman movies. She was in The Girl on the Train, which was a terrible adaptation of what, you know, one of the books for women with the black covers, like the Woman in Peril books. I've read them all. Well, actually, I haven't. I finally stopped. I started respecting myself. She's been in, you know, Five-Year Engagement, The Adjustment Bureau, aka The Movie with the Hats. Obviously, a very famous supporting role in The Devil Wears Prada,

which is extremely important to me. But she does a lot of different types of movies, many of which are successful and is a household name without being like, I don't know, the Scarlet Witch or whatever. So that's very hard to do. I think when A Quiet Place 2 can come out and if the Edge of Tomorrow sequel does get made, which like, what is the latest on that? It just seems like it's something that people talk about when they're promoting other movies every single time. Wait, the latest on what? The Edge of Tomorrow 2 movie. Oh, well, I mean, they keep saying if schedules come together for Emily Blunt and Tom Cruise that Doug Liman wants to make it.

Right. I'm sure there are iterations of a script going around. I think, to me, that's her signature part, though. Yeah. Rita Vertasky from that movie, and hopefully that series, is because it is everything. It is a redefinition of what a hero in a movie is.

It is a great kind of mainstream original story. And she's tremendous in it. I think it revealed something about her that maybe we didn't know she was capable of. Um, and that obviously led to a quiet place, which is written and directed by her husband, John Krasinski and a quiet place too, would have just been,

that would have been one of the biggest hits of 2020 without question. I think it had a great trailer. It was supposed to come out shortly before we went into quarantine. And I think that would have been probably the signature movie of that spring. And Paramount is holding it. They're not releasing it. They're not selling it to a streamer like they have other titles. They're like, we got one here.

So that's good for her as a movie star too, because she's obviously in the center of that movie. Number 22. So number 22 was in a controversial film in 2019. And the lead character that he played, you were, as I recall, sexually attracted to. Do you remember this? Oh my God, I forgot about that.

The dancing really was quite something. I still think it's a reprehensible film, but he really does have a magnetic, fluid dance presence. We're talking about Joaquin Phoenix, star of Joker, Academy Award winner. Another person who I think I originally forgot about as we were constructing this, and then I started to think about it, and I was like,

kind of every Joaquin Phoenix movie is an event. And he is someone who has, I think has absorbed the power that Daniel Day-Lewis or Robert De Niro had in the past where they were like, you know what? Even if he's not quote unquote bankable in every movie he makes, every movie he makes generates the power that Daniel Day-Lewis or Robert De Niro had in the past where they were like, you know what? Even if he's not quote unquote bankable in every movie he makes, every movie he makes generates a conversation. You could say Mary Magdalene or You Were Never Really Here, movies like that were a little overlooked or that they were arthouse side projects.

But when he's doing something like Joker or like The Master or like Her or like Walk the Line, it's a moment and everyone has to pay attention and her advice probably falls into this category too he is bait for auteur filmmakers they love him they love his immersive efforts into getting into character they love the kind of seriousness that he brings to a film and he's a great actor. So he, he has a, he holds a, um, a very unique piece of movie star real estate,

I think. And I, you know, I'm a fan. He also obviously has done like a literal movie and, but like plenty of performance art around being a celebrity and his discomfort with being a celebrity. But I do think he's done enough mainstream movies that he is a household name

while also being one of the people who is very publicly uncomfortable with fame, which is its own sort of, like it's a hallowed celebrity Hollywood track. So, and he's very good in all of his movies, even the bad one. Joker's really interesting. I assume you did not listen to the three-hour Quentin Tarantino, Edgar Wright Empire podcast conversation?

I haven't gotten to it. Quentin had some interesting thoughts about Joker. And he was, you know, he was not, I wouldn't say overly laudatory about the film, but about a very specific decision that was made in the film that gets the audience rooting for the Joaquin Phoenix character, character, despite him being a very disturbed and very violent and very dangerous person that I thought was a really good description of how, what is effective about that movie. Now you may not like it, but I thought it was a, I thought it was the clearest way I had heard yet of how that movie effectively manipulates the audience.

And that is really like, I think what people responded to. That's what a lot of actors responded to when they were responding to Joaquin was the way that he created a kind of sympathy and a rooting interest for a really dangerous and terrible person. Anyhow, Joaquin, number 22, number 21. I think you also omitted this person when you first did your round of suggestions here, and I wanted to ask you about that. Yeah. Oh, I have to do it? Yes, it's Scarlett Johansson.

Yes, Scarlett Johansson has just been in a lot of tremendously successful movies. I had just forgotten the extent. You know, I know that she is the Black Widow, and she is the Black Widow, right? She is. Yeah,, I know that she is the black widow and she is the black widow, right? She is. Yeah. And I know that the black widow is coming out and I know she was in the MCU movies and that's cool.

But I just, I forgot about all of the movies we actually really like that she's in as well. And, you know, obviously Lost in Translation is a big movie for me but her marriage story um under the skin lucy and then some other movies uh jojo rabbit remember that yeah she's very good in that film yeah she is very good in that she is and especially in the scene where she is dancing she's she's very good in it i forgot that she was nominated for two oscars that year i just like completely blocked that out because she was nominated for both Jojo Rabbit and Marriage Story, right? Scarlett Johansson is a huge star. Yeah. Huge. Probably overlooked how big she is, given how she is a part of the biggest franchise ever and also is in Academy Award-nominated

films simultaneously. Right. Pretty amazing. Yes. I think I sort of blacked out the mcu and then obviously you know there have been some choices and some uh some some public discourse image issues that she has been a part of including ghost in the shell and the infamous i could play a tree interview and you know i she has worked with woody allen a lot and she was also in we bought a zoo so just to bring back we bought a zoo so it's been a i guess it's um she encapsulates like the full range of the hollywood experience i guess you could say i agree she's gone through the the laundry cycle you know where she has been deemed problematic

for some of the things that she has done, but she has also certainly not suffered for it largely because she's taken on parts in huge films or critically acclaimed films.

I've always thought she was a very good actress. I think there is some debate about whether or not she is a good actress. You know, my wife, who was a huge fan of the Woody Allen films

pre the, you know, massive Woody Allen controversies, was always a little bit torn, I think, about her role in those films because she was doing a kind of like Diane Keaton monkey thing where it was like, I'm a geek, but I'm so beautiful and I'm so desirable. But also, I have a lot of nervous energy. And I think that there was like some... Whether or not she's cast correctly, I think think is something that comes up with her a lot. And it does feel like in the last five years,

that has been both like a hot talking point by appearing in films like Ghost in the Shell, where she has stoked that controversy, while simultaneously she's kind of unnerved it by being like perfectly cast, I think in Marriage Story, perfectly cast as Black Widow. She's actually quite right for those movies.

So a lot of this is about the decisions that you make too. You of these people that we're talking through is like, what kind of agency do you have to pick the kind of parts that you want versus what kind of opportunities can you create for yourself? She's making some of the better decisions in Hollywood despite also making some of the worst decisions in Hollywood. And so she's a real contrast of terms here. Yeah. I mean, I'm just scrolling back through and there's just no one without a superhero credit at this point. Absolutely not a single person on the list. Well, maybe Emily Blunt.

Emily Blunt doesn't have a superhero credit or am I forgetting anything? Well, Rita Vertosky is a kind of superhero. Also, Mary Poppins is a superhero. Oh, yes, she is. or am I forgetting anything? Well, Rita Vertosky is a kind of superhero. Also, Mary Poppins is a superhero. Aw. Yes, she is. She's kind of a Scarlet Witch. Okay.

I am not caught up with WandaVision, but I'll trust you. But I meant it kind of like just like MCU or DC films. That's just almost everybody fits into one of those buckets, which is quite something. It looks like only seven of the top 20 have DC, MCU, or Star Wars credits to their name, which is notable because I think our top 20 is a little bit more old-fashioned. You may be

scratching your head and saying, they've named Steven Yeun and Emily Blunt. So that leaves a whole shitload of extremely famous people that are over the age of 35 that we haven't talked through. I think we need to maybe reevaluate our top 20. This is very complicated. You feel good about it?

You feel good about revealing this to the world? I have some adjustments. I really only made adjustments on the first 15 today. And so I think that we can probably at least move some things around. I mean, there are some names that absolutely have to be here, but we are also trying

to make an interesting and engaging two-part podcast. I hope you've enjoyed part one. Did you enjoy this, Amanda? Yeah. Yeah. I guess I feel slightly better about our our choices i like all of these people a lot and i guess people will only be really angry at us after they've heard part one so you know right now we're just in the happy zone this is a safe space right now to list movie star names and also to say the word squirtle thank you to bobby wagner for that and thank you to everybody for listening please tune in later this week we will complete this countdown of the top 35 movie stars over the age of 35. See you then.