The Big Picture - The Movie Star Ranking: 35 Over 35, Part II

Episode Date: February 19, 2021

We kicked off our ranking of the top movie stars over 35 years old earlier this week. Now comes the hard part. Sean and Amanda drill down to make the tough choices. Hanks? Sandler? Streep? Denzel? Charlize? Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Sean Fennessey. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about movie stars again. That's right. We're capping our week dedicated to ranking the 35 movie stars over the age of 35. And numbers 20 through 1 are coming up right now on The Big Picture. Amanda, before we get back to movie stars, there's a very important piece of content that we need to address.

Oh, boy. There was a column written for Harper's Magazine. Do you remember Harper's Magazine? Are you a subscriber to Harper's? I'm no longer a subscriber to Harper's for things that have nothing to do with this wonderful essay, a cover story essay, as I understand it, by the one and only Martin Scorsese. And I really enjoyed the whole thing, even the parts that you have decided not to reproduce in full in our outline here. But go ahead. Well, so the essay is essentially an ode to Federico Fellini, the glorious Italian filmmaker and clearly a major inspiration in Scorsese's life. But he, in writing this ode to Fellini,

used it as an opportunity to explore an issue that is at the forefront of Mr. Scorsese's mind a lot of the time, really, in the last few years, it seems like, which is the incursion of content on the world of cinema. So I'm just going to read a little bit from Scorsese's column, which I agree is beautifully written.

Can I just set the scene within the, of when this is happening? Because there's a beautiful, there's a beautiful lead. I recommend reading the whole within the, of when this is happening? Please do. There's a beautiful lead. I recommend reading the whole essay. There's a beautiful lead that is written in screenplay style

and I believe it. It's like, it's a sort of a recreation of young Scorsese like going to the movies in the 50s in New York. And it's kind of like

a wonderland wandering through all of the different theaters and all the things that he could see. And it's it's kind of like a wonderland wandering through all of the different theaters and all the things that he could see and it's very beautiful and obviously he has some experience um with screenplays so it's very evocative and then it's just like a hard cut and then the beginning of the second section is just like on content my discourse it is it is a Harper's essay yeah it is in the Harper's essay history. I'll read briefly from this essay

and then I want to address specifically that introduction that you are referring to because I have some thoughts on that as well. Okay. Here's what Scorsese wrote. As recently as 15 years ago, the term content was heard only when people were discussing the cinema on a serious level

and it was contrasted with and measured against form. Then gradually it was used more and more by the people who took over media companies, most of whom knew nothing about the history of the art form or even cared enough to think that they should. Content became a business term for all moving images, a David Lean movie, a cat video, a Super Bowl commercial, a superhero sequel, a series episode. It was linked, of course, not to the theatrical experience, but to home viewing on the streaming platforms that have come to overtake

the moviegoing experience, just as Amazon overtook physical stores. On the one hand, this has been great for filmmakers, myself included. On the other hand, it has created a situation in which everything is presented

to the viewer on a level playing field, which sounds democratic, but isn't. If further viewing is, quote, suggested by algorithms based on what you've already seen, and the suggestions are based only on subject matter or genre, then what does that do to the

art of cinema? So the kind of conclusion to this opening gambit is the following. Curating isn't undemocratic or elitist, a term that is now used so often that it's become meaningless. It's an act of generosity. You're sharing what you love and what has inspired you. Algorithms by definition are based on calculations that treat the viewer as a consumer and nothing else. Now, on the one hand, as always, I find Martin Scorsese and his certitude inspiring, and he feels very emotionally locked into this idea. In addition to that, as I noted on the internet yesterday, the word content is literally in my professional title here at The Ringer and Spotify.

And so I am not in a strong position to quibble with anything that Martin Scorsese has to say. He is an iconic filmmaker, a very important person. But there's something nagging at me here. I can't believe that there's a but. You didn't tell me that there was going to be a but. Well, here's what it is. I was ready to stand in front of you,

even though the word content is in your title. And I was going to say, that's okay. Jargon happens to all of us, but continue. Well, there's a self-recrimination as well. It's not a criticism of Scorsese, but that beautiful introduction that you were citing in which he is kind of wandering through the streets of New York in 1959,

bouncing from movie theater to movie house, you know, checking out the incredible foreign language films that inspired him in his youth and obviously inform this very passionate point of view that he's sharing in this piece about the word content and the sort of the degradation of the art form. It reminded me of something that I did last night, which is that I spent like three hours listening to De La Soul songs and watching videos of De La Soul, one of my favorite rap groups on the internet. Now, you can only watch them on YouTube

because De La Soul songs are not available on Spotify for a variety of reasons. They're not available on Apple Music because of sample clearance issues. De La Soul is a Long Island group that was very, very important to me when I was a teenager. Really opened my mind up, made me think about the possibilities of art,

especially as a young person. I worship De La Soul. I have no idea what relationship younger people have to De La because their music is harder to find. But so as time goes by, their work becomes increasingly romanticized to their fans, as is true for every, I mean, you and I talk about this on the show all the time.

The movies that we saw when we were 13, 14, 15, that made us, that formed us, feel as though they are the most important things that ever happened. And in some respects, they are to us individually. Scorsese, who has every right to say this, is reflecting in the opening of this essay on what he was experiencing when he was 13, 14, 15, and how powerful that was and how that made him. Now, of course, he's entitled to do so, but this is that old thing about when I was a kid, everything was the best it was ever going to be.

And so with it, I have a little bit of anxiousness, I think, around some of the discourse around this stuff. I think even within the two paragraphs that you read, he does make the distinction between art and seeing things and the opportunities that streaming platforms in particular offer to filmmakers like himself. And what happens when we're all just kind of lemmings feeding what the algorithm is giving us at all times. And if he can make that distinction within these two paragraphs, which is then part of just like a much larger essay that really, frankly, has nothing to do with like corporate

jargon at all. He just really wanted to get this off his chest before he spends a long time talking about what the work of Fellini meant to him personally. And I do think the way that those two ideas are connected is that the algorithm is impersonal, that there is not, that art to him, and this is indicated in the first section, the screenplay section, and in this bit about content and in the things about Fellini is the personal, as he so famously said, and is what happens when, when people or artists are sharing something of themselves with someone else and an algorithm by definition does not

like encapsulate that at all. And it's usually working against it. And I like, I am so freaking anti algorithm, get me off this stuff that I've just empty Marty, which I am aware is a very safe space to be. But I like I do think we can hold both ideas in our heads. What do you think is really the ultimate point here? Is it that these streaming services should work to be more curatorial? Because he cites the Criterion Channel and Mubi as two examples of streamers that are that are taking the lead in this respect, that they are saying that there is actually a kind of a differentiation in terms of the quality and necessity of certain kinds of art,

and we are going to handpick what we feel is meaningful and that audiences should see. So do you think he's saying, hey, Netflix or Apple, as two example of two companies that he has taken money from to make projects, that they should employ humans who can show people more great works rather than just using machines to force feed them things? I mean, I'm certain he would agree with that. He has dedicated a huge part of his personal life in order to creating a library of films

that aren't available elsewhere and making sure that people have access to world cinema that they otherwise would have not. He believes in curation like as an art form um and believes in like the history of cinema so i'm sure that he would be you know a huge uh supporter of everything you just outlined i do also just think you know choice is a part of art, like making a decision, this and not that. And this speaks to me and this doesn't. And I want to connect all of this with you like that. I think to want to be a filmmaker in the way that Scorsese clearly wants to be a filmmaker. It just he he wants that to be a part of the conversation. And the more that we get used to just kind of like drip, drip,

drip. OK, this is what's on my thumbnail. I guess I'll watch it. And the more that we get used to just kind of like drip, drip, drip. Okay, this is what's on my thumbnail. I guess I'll watch it. And the more that the business orients itself to that drip, drip, drip, the further away we get from, hey, I want to share this thing that meant a lot to you. I mean, we're already so far away from that, right? We all, people individually find something that means a lot to them. And then you log online and it's like 8,000 outrage bots just being like, here's why this sucked. We're all like, we're all alone and segmented. And in some ways that's great because I can watch as many

like weird British costume dramas as I want. And like, trust me, I want, and I'll keep watching them. But we do kind of miss those moments of being like, hey, here's this amazing thing that we all discovered together. Yeah, I cited my Daylaw example because I think that movies and television are becoming more like music has been in the last five to 10 years where music fandom and music interest has become so stratified and so individuated. And it feels like movies and television because there are so many outlets and there's so many active programs and things to look at. It feels like movies and television because there are so many outlets and there's so many active programs and things to look at. It feels like that kind of viewing experience is becoming more and more common.

I just, I, not that this matters, but I just think the genie is out of the bottle and it's not going back in. You know, there's, this feels in many ways like a cry into the dark night. You know, there's not really, I don't know how to fix this for Marty. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah, though I think what you outlined of just that there can be a human thought curatorial component, the way that Criterion has modeled for- We will do it. We are doing it on this show. Ostensibly, we're saying these are things you should watch.

There is something meaningful in this work. Now, maybe we're not talking about Tarkovsky every week, and there is certainly a higher level of film scholarship that you can seek out elsewhere. But we're making an effort to contribute to the discourse in a way that is generated by humans and not bots. Right. So once again, this essay wasn't about having content in your title.

You and Marty agree. Like, we're all just here trying to find what we love and share it with other people. That's what we're doing. What a hot 24 hours for Mr. Scorsese because he also cast Jesse Plemons as the star of his new film. Did you see that news? I did. That rules. It's just fantastic. I'm psyched for everybody, including myself, but mostly Jesse Plemons. Yeah, he's wonderful. And that's my segue because Jesse Plemons, who is currently starring in Judas and the Black Messiah alongside Lakeith Stanfield and Daniel Kaluuya on HBO Max, made our 35 under 35 list and feeling good about some parts of that list about a year later because

we identified that trio, for example. I'm not so sure how we're supposed to be feeling about the first 15 names we shared earlier this week. Got some feedback. You said, don't look at the feedback. You seem mad at me that I looked at the feedback. But the feedback is that we have done Christian Bale wrong. That we did a terrible thing by not including Christian Bale. That in fact, he does qualify based on our arcane rules and that we have we've heard Batman.

How do you feel about that? So I just want to be really clear about the feedback that I gave you. And it was both general feedback of not being weak, but also in this particular case to like not be weak and turn off your mentions. Because you know what? We made up the rules, guys. And we talked your mentions. Because you know what? We made up the rules, guys. And we talked about Batman. And frankly, I think I was pretty generous in considering Christian Bale. And should he be a part of it?

And we talked it out. And we made our decision. And that's life in the NBA. So you guys got to live with it. And it's interesting. I obviously started the last podcast with a lot of doubt and anxiety. And were we going to do this right? And this was like, you know, just an impossible task. And as you have let doubt into your life, like you have empowered me to just feel extremely overconfident, which is where I am right

now. I'm just like the choices have been made. This is written in stone and I will not be reading your responses. Wow. That's a very strong take, especially since they are not written in stone and I will not be reading your responses. Wow. That's a very strong take, especially since they are not written in stone and we'll probably be making choices here in this episode that we did not plan on. It's like, and we forgot so many people. As soon as you said Jesse Plemons, I thought about how his partner,

Kirsten Dunst, one of my favorite actors of the last, my entire life. Spoiler alert, not on either of these lists, not even in the section of people we forgot to include, which is just, I've failed my own values. I think that's what I would just want to communicate to everybody. I'm disappointing myself, but I'm not willing to answer to anyone

else's disappointment. Wow. You're just totally running yourself down while also celebrating. I don't think that, I don't even think that Kirsten Dunst would qualify for this list. Maybe just barely. I mean, she has not made a film in four years. Yeah, I know, but. She made a TV show for Showtime. Did you watch that show? No, I didn't. Okay. So you're some fan you are. 10 episodes of On Becoming a God in Central Florida. I've had enough for Florida. Okay. okay i got it guys seems great for the people who are there i'm not okay so what i want to do before we start going through 20 to 1 is just talk about a couple of caveats that i mentioned at the first episode um we'd love to talk about caveats and we'd love to not get to the list a hundred days okay it's not a couple

it's actually longer than this crazy excerpt that you posted, but continue. These episodes were a mistake. All right. First of all, there's the, are we really leaving off list? I'm going to go through these names. Some of these people are ineligible and some of them are decisions we've made that we make live to regret. I'm going to share a whole bunch of those names right now.

The following people are not appearing on our list. Michael Fassbender. He's a race car driver now. Okay. Natalie Portman. Eddie Murphy, who just barely qualifies. And there was some concern. I think if coming to America, we're not going to be imminently released.

We would not have worried about this at all. So I feel fine about Eddie Murphy. Chris Pratt. People will be mad. I don't care. I'm just not a big Chris Pratt fan. I don't know what else to say. I just don't. He's not be mad I don't care I'm just not a big Chris Pratt fan I don't know what else to say I just don't he's not I just don't I just I don't know why we've spent this long on

that name continue Seth Rogen I think of Seth now less as a movie star and more as a producer and I think that he the work he does on the boys and shows like that and the work he's doing as a producer with Point Grey is really where his career is going more significantly and that's there's something related to that that we'll get to shortly in terms of what movies are. Ed Norton, not eligible

based on the criteria. Tom Hardy. I think people may be a little frustrated by this one. Do you have any second thoughts about adding Tom Hardy to our list and taking someone off?

I just, I feel like I heard a lot about Taboo and Taboo Island and I know that that was a show and then I had to watch Capone and I was pretty angry about that. And I, you know,

I, I understand if people are mad, but he like, there, there is something about the fact that he's just like always obscuring his movies, his self, and he's wearing a mask and he doesn't want to be like a typical movie star

where it's like, okay, well then you're a, you're a special asterisk kind of movie star. I agree with that. So his three movies that would allow him to qualify in the last five years are Dunkirk, in which you barely see his face in the film. And he is arguably, you know, he's a supporting player for sure.

Venom, which was a massive hit. And there will be another Venom movie. And Capone, which is no bueno. So it is what it is. He spent all of 2017 making Taboo, which was great for Chris Ryan and not really for anybody else. So no Tom Hardy.

Jim Carrey, not eligible based on the rules. Ben Stiller, not eligible based on the rules. We are not including Mark Ruffalo or Chris Pine. We are not including Kate Winslet. Jonah Hill is not eligible based on the rules. No Michelle Williams. Sasha Baron Cohen, not eligible based on the rules. We're not including Kevin Hart.

We're not including Liam Neeson or Tiffany Haddish or Jennifer Lopez or Ryan Gosling or Jason Momoa or John David Washington. Those people will not be appearing in the top 20. Now, in thinking about this, it's clear to me that in addition to the fact that Hollywood chews up and spits out women, basically at the age of 40, they've started to chew up and spit out another brand of movie star that used to be really kind of preeminent 10 years ago. And that is the middle-aged male comedy star. We don't have a lot of those anymore. You know, if we're not including Eddie Murphy and Jim Carrey based on the rules,

if we're not including Ben Stiller or Paul Rudd or Steve Carell or Jonah or Jason Segel, these people were some of the most present and vibrant movie stars we had. And now we don't really even have movie comedies that much anymore. What happened? We don't have movie comedies anymore. So that's what happened. A lot of these people just haven't been in as many leading roles in the last 10 years, really. And there is one person who's in our top 20 who kind of embodies what the last decade of comedy was.

But it was very different from the middle-aged male movie star. Love those movies. They were great stuff. You know, I, it's a, it's a shame that they don't let them make those comedies anymore. And it's a shame that we don't have that many female movie stars.

I don't know what to say. One last, should we have included this person that I, I want to discuss briefly is Will Ferrell. Will Ferrell 10 years ago might have been my favorite. I'm not sure if a person has had me laughing harder in a movie theater in the last 20 years than Will Ferrell. And yet it feels like Will Ferrell is not really at the center of movie culture right now. Am I wrong about that?

No, I would agree with you. I will say when you slacked me, we forgot Will Ferrell. And I was like, oh, OK. I thought that you were just going to put him on the list. And I would have been OK with that, too know, people need to like still not just be working regularly because there are a lot of people who just barely meet the three film criteria. But are they movies that like we've really talked about? Have they been moving the needle in the past 10 years? And I think Will Ferrell has moved the needle plenty in his entire life. One of my favorites as well.

I actually watched those years of SNL, believe it or not, but he's not at the center anymore, as you said. He's not. He's not. I mean, the movies that would allow him to qualify for this list are, starting in 2017, The House, which is actually a pretty good movie. That's probably his last good comedy, in my opinion. Daddy's Home 2, which is a no. Holmes and Watson, which is a no. Zeroville, which is a no. Downhill, which is a no. Holmes and Watson, which is a no. Zeroville, which is a no. Downhill, which is a no. And Eurovision, which does have its fans, but that you and I really didn't click with. Yeah, I don't really understand the whole Eurovision thing.

Again, people awkwardly singing. Not for me. But listen, respect to Will Ferrell. He gets his own special category of- Yeah, maybe he gets some sort of honorarium. We really were anguished about this. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

He was our hardest cut. There's a couple of more subcategories here. Icon status. None of these people will be on this list, though we gratefully recognize their contributions to the world of cinema. This is like, are we going to get sued? Is this like ageism? septuagenarians on our list that's true that is that is true and i i don't think we were ageist

at all i just don't think that these people should qualify right now we weren't ageist there is like a it is interesting there's a very specific age window that, that makes the top 20. And it's kind of like the people who just are eligible for this. And the people who are like, have been eligible this for a long time. Didn't really fair as well. I'm just going to read the list. Okay.

Not making our top 20 Robert De Niro. Ever heard of him? Al Pacino. What aboutiro. Ever heard of him? Al Pacino. What about him? You know about him? You made those decisions, by the way. I just, if my dad is listening,

Sean did that, okay? I just don't think that those guys are at the center of movie culture. I love the Irishman. I love the works of Martin Scorsese. Look at Robert De Niro and Al Pacino's IMDb credits from the last five years. They are utterly mystifying. If anybody wants us to do a war with grandpa pod,

let me know. We'll watch it. I haven't seen the film and we'll weigh in, but we're not putting them on the list right now. Also not on the list. Jane Fonda, who we mentioned in the last episode, Sidney Poitier,

Diane Keaton, Harrison Ford, Judy Dench, Morgan Freeman, Helen Mirren, your beloved Michael Keaton. Oh, yeah. My conflictedly beloved Clint Eastwood, Dustin Hoffman, Robert Duvall, Shirley MacLaine, Julie Andrews, Donald Sutherland, Michael Caine, Anthony Hopkins, Richard Gere, Robert Redford,

Ellen Burstyn, Lily Tomlin, James Caan, Julie Christie, Martin Sheen. These people are not on the list. They're great. I have love and respect and admiration for all of them, but they are not on the list. You feel okay about that? No, I feel so disrespectful. I was taught to honor my elders and you're just like really aggressively being like, they're not on the list.

When Lily Tomlin texts me, I'll be sure to give her your number and you can you can break it down with her okay you know what i was just thinking about do you have you thought about the fact that you chose to begin the year 2020 like literally after like clock hits midnight and then you were like let's watch the irishman and then 2020 happened i just have you reflected on that at all did i do that i don't even remember yeah you did i just like it's just what a tone to set. Yeah. Well, think about it. I know.

We're all going to die. That's the lesson of the Irishman. So be careful when you, you know, attempt to murder one of your closest confidants because that could come back to bite you. You know, you may live a long and sad life if you attempt to do that. So don't do that to me, Amanda. Okay. Don't paint my house. I won't. I just, all right. We need to get to the list me, Amanda. Okay. Don't paint my house. I won't.

All right. We need to get to the list, I guess. Okay. The only other person who's not appearing here is, unfortunately, we lost Chadwick Boseman. And I was thinking about Chadwick Boseman and what place he would have on this list, which is, I think, quite high. I think he was really one of the few people who were in their late 30s, early 40s, who would have had a chance to kind of pierce

this like upper crust of names that we've had, just given the kind of the scope of the roles that he had. And then we saw when Ma Rainey's Black Bottom hit, like he really was at the height of his powers. And so terrible to lose him. And I thought it would be worthwhile to acknowledge that he would have had a strong presence here. Yeah, absolutely. Just no question. And, and once again, what a loss. Okay, let's get into it now.

Number 20. Here he is. Our boy, our beautiful boy, the one, the only Ben Affleck. People were saying that we were going to try to squeeze Ben Affleck into like the top five,

which we're not that irrational. So this is an objective, true list and not a personal list. Okay. There are a lot of flex of personal. In no ways objective, but we are trying to be responsible. But my personal list, yes, Ben Affleck is, I don't know, top one. Can we just spend this time talking about the Fincher and Affleck variety conversation, which I had seen about 30 minutes. And instead of actually prepping for this podcast, I just watched the end of it. It was wonderful.

You know, what a delight to be on this ride with Ben Affleck, who has really been all the types of movie stars that you can be. Every single one of them. He has been Batman. He has been in a series of some of the worst, uh, box office, um, you know, what is the worst blockbusters and failed box office attempts in recent memory. He has won an Oscar for a good while hunting. He has directed himself to a best picture Oscar. He uses the word obstreperous in a casual conversation. I just, I'm his number one. I'm a number one fan. Ben Affleck forever.

He's fantastic. Number 20. That's Ben. Number 19. Tricky one. So I made a late bid for Jamie Foxx at 19 because I think Jamie Foxx is someone who we overlook a lot. Now, I think you could make the case that Will Ferrell and Jamie Foxx, for example, hold interesting kinds of real estate. And so if there are people that we've overlooked here, maybe Natalie Portman, there are a handful of other people who I think could be considered top 20 quote unquote movie stars. I thought of Foxx because he's coming off of work in Just Mercy, which I thought was tremendous.

And he is the star of a Netflix movie called Project Power, which I didn't think was very effective, honestly, that aired on Netflix last year. I don't know if you had a chance to check that one out. I didn't. But it is one of those movies that like 75 million people watched. And Jamie Foxx is enormously famous. And he has done the superhero movie thing. He has done the I work with Michael Mann and O'Toors thing. He's lived a big, big career as a famous person. He's been a sitcom star. He's been a star of a variety show.

He's been a stand-up comedian. He's been a musician. I mean, he's been everything. Kind of a Renaissance man, kind of acting like a Renaissance man, performing to Renaissance man identity. But he's an Oscar winner. He's enormously famous. He's the kind of person who can get things done and made in Hollywood, which is, I think that's a big part of what

we're talking about here is what kind of power do you have? And so I just felt like Fox belonged. I don't know what it was. It was just speaking out to me about him. So for these top 20, for the most part, we are dealing with like really established movie stars, like people, you know, these names and it was really choosing between all of the names that, you know, and since most of them like have very established careers,

I, I, we did spend a lot of time looking at the last five years because to your point, we are trying to, it's a reflection of right now. And so with Jamie Foxx, when you painted the baby driver to just mercy to the Netflix movie in the last five years for me, I was like, oh, okay. That actually, that is, that makes sense. Yeah. He seems to be doing a strategy. And I guess his next movie,

which is called all-star weekend is a movie that he, I think wrote and directed that is still unreleased, but stars like Robert Downey Jr. So this is a, it is, I think, wrote and directed that is still unreleased, but stars like Robert Downey Jr. So this is a, I believe it's set during the NBA All-Star Weekend. So that will be a thing. Jamie Foxx is, he's good. I'm never not happy to see Jamie Foxx in a movie. That's the thing.

It's been interesting the way he's been doing his career lately. Number 18. It's been a big week for this guy. 25th anniversary of Happy Gilmore. He's celebrated by just absolutely crushing a ball and putting that video on Twitter. It's Adam Sandler. You a fan?

Of course. I'm, you know, I grew up in the 90s and I watch movies. I think he's done a very smart thing in the last five or so years, which is he has threaded the needle of, I make movies for Netflix with my friends in exotic locales and get to make a lot of money while also retaining my incredible credibility by making movies with Noah Baumbach and the Safdie brothers. And it just so happens that those are two of the best movies that have come out in the last five years, those latter movies, which I don't know. I mean, the fact that Adam Sandler at almost 55 years old is still the lifeblood of American comedy culture is kind of fascinating. I don't know if I would have predicted that 20

years ago. I'm not sure that I would have either. And I do think to your point about all of the middle-aged comedy guys who are not on this list. Respectfully, Adam Sandler is also a middle-aged comedy guy, but he has made such interesting choices outside of the comedies, some of which are funny and some of which are really not funny. I'm not going to pretend like I've seen all of them, though I did watch all of Murder Mystery, and I would watch a Murder Mystery too. Go wherever you need to go. I think you're going to get that. It hasn't been confirmed. I mean, I hope so. It's a repeatable formula.

And I think Adam Sandler deserves a nice vacation too. Another one. But I, he has, he has kind of the whole picture and a lot of that in the way that some of the other comedians don't.

Yeah, I agree with that. Love Sandler. Don't think this is that controversial. I think he's kind of like right where he belongs. He's created his own little ecosystem that he can thrive in. He's not worried about box office. He's not worried about the trappings of stardom. He may have to wait a little while longer to get his Oscar. I feel like he's not getting the respect he deserves on that front. How can we help him? I think we put him on this list and we continue to be obsessive about his, you know, adventurous movies

as we were about Uncut Gems. Did you rewatch the Independent Spirit Awards acceptance speech while doing this? No, you didn't. I did. Tremendous stuff.

Let's just, if we played that speech at the end of the big picture, or maybe in the middle because, like, I don't really know whether people are listening to the end. Every week for a or maybe in the middle, because I don't really know whether people are listening to the end.

Every week for a year, maybe we actually could help get him an Oscar. Hello, my name is Adam Sandler. Thank you. I stand before you trembling with thankful glee as I receive the so-called Best Actor trophy independently speaking of course. I want to start a convention of putting Easter eggs at the end of our episodes. You know,

like little stingers so that people will stick around to the end and, you know, like just reveal just devastating personal facts about one another. That would mean

saving it to the end, but okay. Well, maybe that would change the way we make the show. Let's go to number 17. Who's number 17? Kind of the flip side of the comedic star arc

over the last 10 years. It's Melissa McCarthy, who is the woman who I was alluding to and who basically becomes a movie star in 2011 with Bridesmaids and then does a string of studio comedies. Some of them good. Some of them, you know, I don't remember comedies. Some of them good. Some of them, you know, I don't remember, frankly.

Spy was pretty good. Did you like Spy? I do like Spy. And the last five years she's been working. It's been interesting because I would not say that the big budget studio comedy that propelled her for the first half of the last decade is working anymore, like at all.

But she was obviously in Can You Ever Forgive Me, which I believe she was nominated for an Oscar for. I believe that's right. Yes. And she is making two movies. Her upcoming, she's making two movies for Netflix. And then it's also going to be Ursula in The Little Mermaid, which I think that's going to turn out well for her. I think she'll have fun with that. I agree. So she's an interesting one because I think you put it perfectly. Her big studio movies over the last few years have been significantly less successful and have been kind of critically reviled relative to that first run, that 2011 through 2015 run. But she is the rare woman in comedy who can get things done at a movie level.

She is a person who, I mean, most of these movies, she is top-billed. She is the number one person. She may have somewhat famous co-stars, but she is, it's very uncommon, really, frankly, in the history of Hollywood

for a woman to have the kind of power that she has, the kind of box office draw, the kind of like producing her, her husband is a writer director, Ben Falcone. They work together as a kind of unit and they have built this little cottage industry. And again, this speaks, I think to the, not just the quality of the work, but the magnitude of their power in the industry. And especially as you know, the, the world of movies becomes smaller or more amorphous, someone like Melissa McCarthy with a track record is actually more important to those streamers because she's a sure thing. There's a built-in audience. There's a recognizability to her too.

So this one actually just doesn't really feel very controversial. It just seems like she's one of the few women who can kind of dominate in the space. 16. Do you think this is too high for our guy at 16? You and I discussed it. So I think we, we somewhat disagree. I'm going to make the case strongly. Number 16 is Bradley Cooper. The big picture.

We were big supporters of the film. A star is born here on the big picture. And we're, we're big fans of Bradley Cooper's. I think he's a very interesting actor. I think he is at times a bit self-parodic, but in a way that I really enjoy. And he does qualify just barely for this work

because of his appearance in the film, The Mule, which he portrayed, I guess, a fed who was after 90-year-old Clint Eastwood. I just can't. This was my objection, was that the way that he qualified for this was a star is born the mule and being the raccoon voice no there was one more there was one more and of course don't forget war dogs oh war dogs that was it war dogs was the now war dogs thanks for

bringing that up great uh war dogs directed by todd phillips who of course directed the film joker uh is number seven on netflix right now i don't know if you noticed that in the Netflix top 10. It's been doing quite well. People are discovering war dogs every day. More and more war dogs. Jonah Hill and Miles Teller. So his work on that film, after The Hangover,

also led to Todd Phillips producing A Star is Born, and it also led to Todd Phillips producing A Star is Born and it also led to Bradley Cooper producing Joker and both of those guys got Oscar nominations for their producing work on each other's films and now Bradley Cooper is going to be the star of the forthcoming Guillermo del Toro movie Nightmare Alley

he's also going to be one of the stars I don't know how big his role will be in the forthcoming Paul Thomas Anderson film which is now tentatively titled soggy bottom so this is a this is a movie star this is a person who uh guillermo del toro and pta want to be top lining their movie so i say yay to bradley cooper i know i said this to you yesterday but i just remember when he just had to cuddle a baby doll in American Sign Language. That was like five years ago. And one of the biggest, quote, movie stars in the world is just walking around a Clint Eastwood film with like not even like one of the creepy real baby dolls.

It just looks like a plastic doll. Yeah, that's cinema. Okay. okay all right that's the power of cinema that's congratulations to bradley cooper clint's vision that movie made like 500 million dollars do you know that i know it was five like it was very recent and it made so much money and he's just walking around with like a plastic doll that you buy at the drugstore. And it's just like, this is a baby that I love. I guess that's acting. Let's go to number 15. Number 15 is the forthcoming star of The Suicide Squad, Amanda's most anticipated movie of 2021. If I said to you, the next person on our list is the star of The Suicide Squad, I think many people would say, oh, Jai Courtney. I love Jai Courtney and all his work. But no, that's not who we're referring to.

We're referring to Viola Davis. Viola Davis, who, you know, lo and behold, has emerged as one of the most reliable people in Hollywood in the last 10 years. And I was thinking about this a bit when we did our Soderbergh episode last year ahead of Let Them All Talk and how Soderbergh cast Viola Davis like three or four times in the early 2000s and seemed to have an eye for her greatness early on. And she's 55 years old, Viola Davis. This is literally without precedent. There has never been a person like her who has become as famous and successful as her at this age with her background, with the opportunity or lack thereof that she has likely endured in Hollywood. And so as we see, she's likely to get her fourth Oscar nomination for Ma Rainey's Black Bottom.

She too is kind of at the center of movie culture. She was also in Suicide Squad without the, right? That's correct. So she's going to, I mean, what more can you say? She's really so she's gonna she i mean what more can you say she's really she's everywhere when all is said and done which of the suicide squad films you think will be your favorite suicide squad or the suicide squad i still haven't so this is this is honest this is an earnest earnest earnest question okay i'm sorry we're recording this late in the afternoon and I just keep thinking about the baby doll. Yeah, that doll is one of the co-stars of the Suicide Squad.

Just Google image search it. Okay, but this is an earnest question. Is Suicide Squad know the like part of the Snyder Cut? What does that mean? I don't know what you're asking. Is that like part of the four hours cut? What does that mean? I don't know what you're asking. Is that like part of the four hours? That's not part of what they're remaking? You think two of the hours

are just Suicide Squad? Well, like, I mean, his new version. No, you're, no. It's different. No, you're confused. Are we okay? No. Suicide Squad is a different film

from a different filmmaker. Zack Snyder is not David Ayer. Oh, that's right. Okay. I didn't know that, but it's the same cast of characters somewhat. Right now, the people who are anticipating our Snyder Cut episode are vibrating at an extraordinary frequency because you literally don't even know the difference between Zack Snyder and David Ayer. This is going to be a train wreck. I do know the difference between Zack Snyder and David Ayer. It's just once it's like 18 superheroes and a lot of, you know, weird costumes all in one movie. I just, I don't know. You know, it's a team up movie. They're both team up movies, right? Here's the thing.

This is very important. One is a squad and one is a league okay so just check out your dictionary get your facts straight i think i was kind of thinking about it like um i i was thinking about the snyder cut sort of like the things that they do with like the shakespeare history plays sometimes where they like put a lot of the Henry's together or the, you know, and then, but it'll be a condensed version with, with new stuff added. And so I sort of thought that the Snyder cut,

I can't believe that I said the Snyder cut in the same sentence as Shakespeare, by the way. And I really apologize to Shakespeare and all the Henry's. This is me winning right now. I won, but you know, I thought that it was like a,

like a con condensed, like a condensed, like extra version of the, of the whole DC universe and everything that's happening. But like just in Zack Snyder's vision, but that's not the case. This is just the justice league movie that was made a few years ago. Just that movie with like some new stuff. Okay.

That's pretty much it. Okay. I think I would have more respect for it if it were my version but fine you're featuring like 12 12th night and well certainly that if it were just like it was like we need to redo the dc universe and we're gonna like bring all the best performances together and add some songs and And like, here is, you know, the Snyder cut. In some respects, you're right because Zack Snyder takes this kind of mega operatic

Shakespearean visual approach to his films. They're not very good, but that is the kind of the, that is the tenor that he's going for. Those, some of those, those tragic Shakespearean tales. Anyway,

let's keep going. This is really, this was extremely disrespectful to Viola Davis, who's a tremendous actor and who is about to be nominated for her fourth Oscar and is a movie star. So love seeing her in movies.

Number 14, Samuel L. Jackson. Samuel L. Jackson is 72 years old. He is also the only actor who can claim gross receipts greater than $10 billion. You might be thinking to yourself, is Samuel L. Jackson really a bigger movie star than Adam Sandler or Ben Affleck? The truth is, yes. Yes.

He is a globally known and recognized figure of greatness. In addition to being a tremendous actor, he's basically just spent the last 15 years being like, give me all the parts where I can get money. And I got to say, I respect it. He's in Star Wars and the MCU and one of the credit card commercials that I see all of the time, which is another measure of just being really famous. And if you can sell credit cards, that means that people know who you are. He's in everything all of the time. Another guy who I'm never unhappy to see

him. That's the other thing. He's always good. He's always entertaining. He's also, he's not picky in the good way. You know, certainly he's been in some tremendous Spike Lee films. He's also been in Snakes on a Plane. And honestly, that was good. I was good with it. But Snakes on a Plane is also like its own phenomenon. You know, like he is, he is just a universe unto himself in the best way. Shout out Sam Jackson. I feel great about his placement. Number 13.

This is the young buck of the list. This is the rare human in his 30s who has cracked the list. I don't know if this is controversial or not. Who is 13? That he's on. Do you think that he's this high? Do you think he's this high? I think that he's this high. Oh, I think he's probably a little low,

but we had to make some adjustments for my personal feelings. It's Adam Driver, who is, again, a gigantic movie star. I would point everyone to Star Wars. You guys have heard of it, I think. Even I have seen all the Star Wars movies that he's been in. And then also while being Kylo Ren,

which is not just like being in Star Wars, but actually creating a character that people were invested in and cared about. And then also working with like every single great director who are most of them at this point who exists. And if he hasn't worked with a great director yet, I'm sure that he will. And just a fascinating career, manages franchise and like interesting, dramatic,

challenging projects. And also it's so hard to get this kind of career and be able to work with all of these people and to start at 37 or really, you know, at any point, if you're not grandfathered in an end point, you don't really get this level of opportunities. And he just has figured it out. I agree. He's very carefully managed the work and you could make the case. Well, maybe he's just using good taste. So he wants to work with Jim Jarmusch and he wants to work with the Coen brothers and

Steven Soderbergh and Noah Baumbach and soon Ridley Scott and soon Leos Carricks. And maybe he's just letting his taste to guide him while also creating the most, I thought the most indelible character in the new star Wars movies, um, give or take a, a Ray, but he's same thing.

Never bad. Never been in anything where I was like, that was ineffective. I didn't really recognize, I didn't really notice what he was up to he is i i think he is captivating i think he is like the guy of this generation so you know he's still pretty young and it could go sideways we've seen it go sideways i i noticed that i noted that there were a couple people on our list who got cut who five ten years ago you would have said this person's in the driver's seat it seemed like

chris pine in like 2013 or 14 was in the driver's seat. You know, he was in a couple of franchises. He'd been in a couple of really good films, worked some good filmmakers. And now I don't really even know where Chris Pine's career is going. So it can change quickly. Yeah, I say this as a huge, huge fan of Chris Pine. I don't remember how I ranked the Chris's, but I think he's my number one Chris. It's somewhere on the internet.

Big fan. Wish him well. But he does not have just like the essential charisma and presence. And like an actor chops that Adam Driver has. I mean, that's the thing is that Adam Driver is, I agree with you, captivating. And just but not like a cookie cutter, you know, matinee idol. But he is one of the best actor actors of certainly under 40. And that doesn't always get rewarded with movie stars, you know?

But in this case, he managed to work it out and actually make being in Star Wars interesting. Number 12. We dedicated an episode to him. Was it the beginning of 2020? The end of 2019? It was Aladdin. So it was whenever... Summer 2019? Yeah, I want to say 2019 because we definitely saw Aladdin in theaters together.

And then there was the remix and I lost my mind as you recall um that was wasn't that that was such a great moment that was incredible a great moment yeah what do you mean like the Berlin Wall coming like coming down like that kind of a great sitting in that giant crowded theater having just watched like a I think totally, completely allowable amount of sexuality in the Aladdin. But other people felt that the genie was too sexual. But, you know, whatever. I think the genie deserves happiness, too. But we had watched that in the theater.

And then it's a friend like me, right? The DJ Khaled remix. And I just, I lost my mind. And I lose my mind every time I think about it. I don't know if we've said number 12's name yet. His name is Will Smith.

It's not DJ Khaled. That's not who we're referring to here. Although Khaled, you know, maybe he should be on the next list that we do for, I don't know, DJs who don't actually DJ under over 35. How old is DJ Khaled?

I don't know. Save it for another pod. Okay. You know, the biggest movie hit of 2020 was Bad Boys for Life. Over 35? How old is DJ Khaled? I don't know. Save it for another pod. Okay. You know, the biggest movie hit of 2020 was Bad Boys for Life. And certainly that was affected by the pandemic. But Will Smith continues to reign. I'm actually surprised by how continuously successful he too has been in his 50s. And he has not, aside from the occasional Red Table Talk appearance, spent much time on television.

So shout out to him. Love Will. He's got King Richard coming up, and that seems like a real Oscar bid. I truly, truly, truly can't wait for King Richard. Like, I just... Sign me up. Number 11, Robert Downey Jr. So this is complicated.

Obviously, Robert Downey Jr. is Iron Man, so this is complicated um obviously robert down jr is iron man and has been the leading figure really of the mcu for the last 13 years and there are no bigger movies than infinity war and end game and his his death at the end of end game spoiler alert for the most popular film of all time um was was like the hammer in the movie that That was not Thor's hammer. It was literally like the emotional hammer of the film. And this is what he spent the bulk of his time doing in the last five to eight years is mostly making these movies. The other most recent film he made was Doolittle,

which is quite a poor film, I would say. Also, we saw it together. That was in 2020. We did. That was the first week of January. Maybe that should have, see, rather than my viewing of The Irishman,

I think our participation in the Doolittle moment was a portent of things to come. Okay. Downey is super interesting. I really want to know what he's going to do in the next five years.

I really hope he does kind of throw his weight behind some more interesting projects. I'm sure he'll make another Sherlock Holmes movie. I'm sure he'll continue to work towards some some more interesting projects. I'm sure he'll make another Sherlock Holmes movie. I'm sure he'll continue to work towards some of the franchise stuff. I'm sure he'll be back as Iron Man.

He's listed in the credits for Black Widow right now. He's probably not leaving the MCU in full, but this is one of the best actors of his generation, bar few. He really is a tremendous performer. And while I don't begrudge him going out and dominating the box office for

10 years, it'd be cool to see him put his weight behind something that isn't too little. Where do you think he would have been 10 years ago on this list? Hmm. 10 years ago. I mean, that's right.

That's after two Iron Man movies in Sherlock. I think he probably would have been pretty high. Yeah. I think he, I think he would have been in the top five. I, I think so as well. And I think like we, I don't know how purposeful it was, but think he would have been in the top five. I, I think so as well. And I think like we,

I don't know how purposeful it was, but subconsciously like him being at 11 is a real, just outside of the 10 is a signal of like this particular moment in, in his movie stardom. It would be cool for him to do really interesting stuff. It also seems like Robert Downey Jr. Just really, really loves making a lot of money and

then having a nice time. Yeah. I mean, who among us, right? Yeah. You know, if you can get it, go on with it. He's also apparently one of the stars of that Jamie Foxx movie, All-Star Weekend, I mentioned, which I, again, I don't know anything about this movie, but I'm weirdly looking forward to it, even though it's being distributed by Vertical Entertainment, which doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be a major release, but I'm weirdly looking forward to it, even though it's being distributed by Vertical Entertainment, which doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be a major release, but we shall see. Okay, top 10.

You fought hard for number 10. You want to unfurl? Number 10 is Tom Hanks. And I still feel that this is too low for Tom Hanks. And I just want to express my gratitude to Tom Hanks for going on 40 years of being a great movie star

and being in tremendous movies and being in some weird movies too, but then also finding your way back to great movies and just being the example for, for an American movie star and someone who we all like seeing on screen and have an understanding of. It's like, you know what a Tom Hanks character is and a Tom Hanks movie is. And I think that is an indication of what of movie stardom as well. Obviously he's been in a lot of successful films. He's won several Oscars. And I would just remind everyone that like, he is basically the person who got America to take COVID seriously. And I, I mean, when he was diagnosed and i believe he's doing better and i again send him and his family all the best you know and everyone all the best but also tom hanks just specifically

tom but well no i want everyone to be i send everyone health and happiness and i hope that tom hanks is still doing well but that was a seismic event. It was. I believe it was the same night that the NBA called. Yes, the Thunder Jazz game. Yeah. But those two things were the turning point. And that, I mean, says a lot about a lot of things in America, none of which Tom Hanks is responsible for, but that people were so invested in him.

It says a lot still about his star power. Yeah, I agree. I think I had discounted him as past his prime is a rude thing to say about one of the signature figures and frankly, someone I think many people see as America's dad or uncle or what have you. But if you look at his last five years, Sully, The Post, Toy Story 4, A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood, and a beautiful day in the neighborhood and then he was in greyhound and news of the world last year pretty good um certainly still certainly movies that people are seeing and and america still has a relationship to him it's been a lot of interesting conversation about kind of the lack of academy recognition he's had since the

the late 90s early 2000s because he won those back-to-back oscars but he's given plenty of great performances. And movies like Sully and The Post, those movies are hits. And those movies are hits in a format that it's harder to make those movies hits now than it ever has been. So I think Hanks to 10 is good. I'm on board. Okay. Thank you, Tom Hanks, for everything you do. You've done great work, Tom. We're glad you're happy and healthy here at the Big Picture. Number nine, Cate Blanchett. So I think at first blush, you'd be surprised to see Cate Blanchett at number nine. I shared this list. I previewed it with my wife yesterday and she said, that's just way too high for Cate Blanchett. She should not be number nine. Here's the thing. Cate Blanchett is kind of like Bradley Cooper, but she actually appears in these mainstream movies and doesn't just provide her voice like Rocket Raccoon for Cooper. Lest we forget, Cate Blanchett has starred in Thor Ragnarok, Ocean's 8, all of the Lord of the Rings movies, and The Hobbit movies.

This is a very famous person. They made her be in The Hobbit movies? Yeah, Galadriel. You haven't seen those films? No. They're about eating and then you and Chris tell me about them

whenever they come up in movie draft and I'm just like, I can't believe that they made these into movies. They're definitely not about eating.

So I don't know. The Hobbits? I think Chris thinks one scene lasted three hours, but there's a scene where they eat. They just eat a lot, right? That's what the first one's about?

No, it's not. That's not, but that's okay. Did I ever tell you about no it's not that's not but that's okay did i ever tell you about when i had to read the hobbit is this going to be a good story this is a this is a very telling amanda story the hobbit was i believe our sixth grade summer reading book and very uncharacteristically i was like i'm not reading this and so it was literally the day before school started and my parents found out that i had not done my summer reading and they were like you will stay in that room until you like read this entire book.

Don't come out and you better finish it by the time school starts. And so I had to read The Hobbit in a whole day. And I can't say that added to the experience of a book I had absolutely no interest in. And I'm done with Hobbits. So let me get this straight. You abdicated your responsibilities. Yes. You were,

your parents forced you to amend this terrible error you'd made and you resented it forever. And you use that as an opportunity to mock me on this podcast for discussing fantasy films. Absolutely. A hundred percent accurate. So this is all your fault is what you're saying. Okay.

Yeah. You accept responsibility. If Cate Blanchett enjoyed being in the Hobbit films then i'm happy for her well she i just assume she enjoyed the money and it gave her the opportunity to make films like carol right or elizabeth and also do a lot of theater work which yeah that i know she's very passionate about and and i meant i compared her to cooper in part because they're both the stars of nightmare alley the new forthcoming um guillermo del toro movie and she's going to appear in pinocchio as well and also don't look up the new adam k movie so she's thriving i mean honestly she's kind of in a sweet spot right now where i don't know that she's

necessarily a person who you're like i have to race out to the theater to see cape lanchette but i don't think that's the only measure of a superstar. You know, I, Elizabeth Taylor was a person who at times was a box office draw and at times was not a box office draw, but she was a famous person. She was a star. And I think Blanchett,

um, has a little bit more of the Daniel Day Lewis version of stardom in that we don't know a lot about her as a person. She has not sought a kind of celebrity, but she has sought a kind of, it was like an event like status to, to her performances. You have to pay attention to what she's doing,

which I think is meaningful. And I would also say in the big franchise films that I have seen, she's great. Like she doesn't just show up in Thor Ragnarok, but I, Oh yeah, she goes for it. Delightful.

And that I can kind of still see that final scene with her in the field, just having the time of her life. Totally. She's having a blast in those movies, which is why that's like that's what you want. You don't want somebody who's just collecting the paycheck and grimacing their way through it. So number eight, let's have a conversation about Dwayne The Rock Johnson. Okay. Dwayne The Rock Johnson is definitively one of the most beloved Americans. People are on board with The Rock. Me and The Rock, we go way back. I was a big fan of The Rock

when he was in the WWF many years ago. I still think to this day, he is the best on-mic performer in professional wrestling history. I don't know if that means anything to you. When I say that, trust me, it means something. It's tremendous at just talking. And I think that talking skill

is what brought him to this place in our culture. Yeah. The presence, the charisma. You have a story, right, about going to a screening- Hobbs and Shaw. Right. And you tell it. It's your story. Well, I don't even know if I've told this story before, but I went to the premiere of the film. I guess a fountain drink fell over and rolled down an aisle and hit into a light in the, in one of the seats.

And there was a, an electrical flare in the seat. And there was some concern that it might've been like a bomb or some sort of terrorist object. And so they paused the screening and they, they, they, many people exited the theater.

And as they were sort of fixing the seat and waiting for the start the film up again, this was an hour into the movie, Dwayne The Rock Johnson just had to like soft shoe for the audience. He just had to improv for 20 minutes and entertain people. And he did it like that.

I mean, he had bits. He was annihilating Jason Statham the whole time hilariously and was so comfortable. And you could see he's just a natural born performer. If he were born in the 1920s, he would have been Jimmy Cagney. If he were born in the 1950s, he would have been the host of The Tonight Show. He would have won no matter what era he was born in, in part because he was the son of a professional wrestler. He got into professional

wrestling. He's a natural talent as a movie star. The thing that holds him back, I think, from being even higher on this list is a lot of his movies just are not very good. Many of them are very successful, but his IMDb is kind of a train wreck. Yeah, I was going to say I've seen a lot of these and the only film that I can even barely remember the plot of is Fast Five for obvious reasons. It's the one when they drag the safe through Rio. That's amazing, amazing film. But I am a huge fan of Dwayne The Rock Johnson and it's entirely because of that charm and the charisma and he brings some of that to his

performances and I also just see a lot of videos of him on Instagram interacting with his tiny daughter and they also seem very charming. He has a very big social media presence and so he to me is kind of the extracurricular movie star that then gets people to see whatever weird, forgettable action movie he is starring in. Yeah, he has supercharged a

couple of franchises along the way. He's got a Netflix movie coming out soon called Red Notice, which I believe stars him, Ryan Reynolds, and Gal Gadot. That's kind of a big deal. And Jungle Cruise, which we mentioned when we discussed emily blunt which is forthcoming and he is joining the dc universe and the shazam films which you know again like i actually like the shazam movie quite a bit but i don't know if that's the most high-toned material it'll be interesting to see he was in um the sequel to get shorty was it called be cool i think it was called Be Cool, circa 2009. Not a very good movie, but he was really, really funny in it. And there's a part of me that just wishes he would pursue that lane a little bit more. He's got a great comic touch, and he's too busy pulling helicopters out of the sky with chains and Hobbs

and Shaw to spend too much time on that. We'll see. Number seven, my wife also said this person was definitively too high, but I disagree. We'll see. Number seven, my wife also said this person was definitively too high, but I disagree. I also disagree. Number seven is Keanu Reeves. Keanu Reeves is the man. Keanu Reeves is, he's an event diagram

for us, I think, of crossover interest in terms of what kind of a celebrity he is, what kind of movies he makes, what kind of franchise choices he's made, and his aura as a famous person,

which is very unique. I couldn't really think of very many people who occupy his airspace. Where are you at on Keanu these days? Just a massive, massive fan of Keanu. And he has, he's obviously been in a huge number of successful films, including The Matrix and the John Wick films, which I think

has sort of brought Keanu back for a new generation. And so if you're not like a massive John Wick fan, which I know Eileen and I'm not under the impression that Eileen is just like writing hard for John Wick 4. So that perhaps, you know, explains her reaction. But I mean, he has maintained like the actual box office success movie stardom and then has just sort of the, I mean, I guess it is like kind of the California, just like at ease, like untouchable, but, but not untouchable. There's that really lovely, there's so many viral clips of him in interviews like answering boring junket questions or you know entertainment tonight questions that no one else would actually like listen to and engage with in like very thoughtful ways and talks about like loss and grace and all of these sorts of

things he just seems to just have sort of a elevated understanding of the world world that's really appealing and also just I think everyone has a favorite Keanu Reeves performance for me it's obviously something's got to give and obviously I think Diane Keaton should have well she needed to wind up with Jack Nicholson for the interior logic of that film but like in life always pick the Keanu Reeves character just advice to any single people out there. And everyone has some version of that, some Keanu performance or movie that means a lot to them. And all of those movies look really different. Yeah, I always think of him in parenthood. He's incredibly sweet in parenthood. But I think you're right. I think John Wick, it recharged him. I think it completely

revived him for another generation. And you know, that time before that was kind of a weird moment. I think between that time, between the lake house and John wick was pretty weird. He was, you know, not doing a ton of very successful stuff, but in recent years,

he's been all over the place. You know, that famous always be my, maybe a cameo that he made. So wonderful. Um, obviously bill and ted face the music was one of the bigger movies out of quarantine um so he's he's been pretty active

of late and he's also like he was like the face of san loran do you remember those like incredibly cool ads he's one of the only people also who just like manages to be cool and cooler the the more he ages which is like sort of an old Hollywood thing that not that many people can do anymore but um I I have um I have some special merch my husband works at GQ and Keanu Reeves is on the cover of GQ and looked very cool and so they made like t-shirts with Keanu with that cover and I um took I claimed that t-shirt for myself. And whenever I don't wear merch very much, but I'll wear that shirt around and every single person is just like, that's Keanu.

And that's what they say. They're just like pointing at me and being like, that's Keanu on a t-shirt. But there aren't that many people who you put their face on a t-shirt and everyone like all ages, all different walks of life are just gonna be like, oh my God, that's Keanu. And that's a movie star.

I'm with you. Love Keanu. Number six, Meryl Streep. Yeah. So Meryl, you know, she's not the star of the John Wick franchise. She was not a professional wrestler as far as I can tell.

She has never appeared in Thor Ragnarok. In fact, I don't think she's ever appeared in an MCU movie. And yet, she retains true aura. She is now, I think, our Jack Nicholson. She is the person who, if you put her at the award show, everyone gravitates to her. She is the grand dame of Hollywood. She is the person who is considered the absolute pinnacle of the form. And the thing I like about her relative to this list, and she's the second septuagenarian

that we've listed after Samuel L. Jackson, she's 71 years old. She's still in the heart of her career. She's still making one or two movies a year every year. And sometimes those movies are kind of broad, mainstream, Mamma Mia-ish attempts at box office. And sometimes they're let them all talk slightly more experimental work with great filmmakers but she's thriving and so i think this is not too high

at all for her i mean number one she's meryl but number two she does seem to have invented her own form of stardom that then people are like that exists on its own and so there are like certain roles and movies and even like gestures and tics at this point that are like oh it's a it's a Meryl Streep thing and that's a little bit because we're gonna talk about it there aren't obviously as many women as men on on this list and because when Meryl Streep was coming up in the 70s and 80s and 90s there weren't as many opportunities and still aren't as many opportunities

for female actors as there were for men. So she had to kind of invent her own thing but she is kind of like the standard by which everyone else especially female actors are but honestly both are organizing their career at this point.

Do you know how many Oscar nominations she has? Has she gotten to 20 yet? 21. Or is it 19? 21. 21. Yeah. And she hasn't had an Oscar nomination in four years.

And this will now be the longest stretch between Oscar nominations for her since the stretch between Postcards from the Edge in 1990 and The Bridges of Madison County in 1995. That means every three to four years, there was at least one Meryl Streep Oscar nomination.

That is amazing. Amazing. And at some point, I think in later years, we have begun to wonder whether it's like self-fulfilling right and it's like the award ceremonies and just like hollywood can't really take itself seriously without being like okay well do we need to have maryl in the mix but that is just a testament to her and her career and she's getting nominated for silly stuff like florence foster jenkins you know and it's like but she's as you said she's mery for silly stuff like Florence Foster Jenkins you know and

it's like but she's as you said she's Meryl so that is that is reason enough Amanda we're really far through this list and it occurs to me that we've forgotten someone. We've forgotten a very well-known figure. And I've been alerted to this mistake. I'm not sure if it's a mistake on our part, but we're getting a call. It seems to be, is that a Hyannisport area code? I'm not sure. Who could it be?

And what voice work is he doing? Let's take this call. Did we forget someone on our list? An unknown caller? Bobby. Bobby, it's me. Stand at the curtains. You bought me at Walmart.

We're going to make a life together, Bobby. You and me. For keeps. So you guys, you guys forgot Wahlberg. Yeah, we forgot Wahlberg. Yeah, we forgot Wahlberg. We forget him. Or did you admit,

omit him? I, I don't, I honestly don't. What do you, what do you think Amanda? Did we omit Mark Wahlberg from our list? We absolutely forgot him.

I don't think that his name was like on any of the extended documents that we compiled, which happens, right? There's always one really obvious person that is just not on your front brain. Kind of the ex machina mistake. Sure. Yeah. In this case, apparently it was Mark Wahlberg. So would you like to continue? Doing my Diane Lane from Perfect Storm voice? Yeah, exactly. I always kind of wonder what happened to her. Is she calling in to Barstool podcasts and being like,

I don't know about Marcus Smart and whether or not he works with Campbell Walker. Bobby left me all those years ago and all I'm left with is a Celtics. She just smokes Marlboro Reds and drinks Narragansett and thinks about the Celtics all the time. I think it's reasonable to assume that that's something that Mark Wahlberg is doing. I straight up would have married that woman. This is why he's not on our list, because Chris is calling in to do Diane Lane voice work. It's not even the Wahlberg performance that is central. It's the adjacent. It's the not even the Wahlberg performance that is central. It's the adjacent,

it's the culture that is created around him. I have a very complicated relationship with Mark Wahlberg in that I am deeply entertained by many of his films and I find him to be a very problematic human being. Both in terms of like his private behavior, which I think is odd and is also you can read about some of the things that he's done in his past that are really fucked up. And also some of the movie choices he makes which are endlessly like fascinating to me but just truly truly like pretty bizarre he's really like a throwback to an era that like doesn't seem to exist anymore the reason i felt like it was necessary just to pipe this conversation in quickly is walberg is one of the handful of people who has proven that he can quote unquote

open a streaming movie. Spencer Confidential, fairly understood, is one of the biggest movies of the last five years, just in terms of the number of people that have seen it. And his name recognition, his name brand is still really strong. Now, I don't know if he necessarily does any of the things at this stage of his career that I'm looking for in a movie star. He just seems to have, he is certainly a notch above the kind of like John Travolta, Bruce Willis, straight to VOD level of celebrity and movie stardom. But he is using very similar strategies by just kind of making genre movies for streamers at this point. The thing that we've just been coming back to on this list is the person at the center

of the movie culture. And he at the center of the movie culture. And he is certainly successful in the movie culture. But okay, Chris, discount Spencer Confidential. Yes. What is like the last Mark Wahlberg movie that you saw and can remember without looking at his IMDb? Amanda, do you look me in the eye? You know that I've seen all of the Mark Wahlberg movies.

Okay, so you're just going to be like, do you want to talk about Mile 22? No, I was going to ask you about Instant Family. Let's go. Oh, see, I don't fuck with this. I don't mess with the family-friendly stuff. Like, I'm here for... Glad we have that on record.

Deplorable B-movie Mark Wahlberg. Okay. I think we've forgotten that Mark Wahlberg was the star of All the Money in the World. Yeah. You guys remember that? That's right. That's right. Right. And paid like $1.5 million for his day of reshoots. And Michelle Williams got what, like $10? I don't know. Like, yes, he's in a lot of movies that a lot of people saw. And we have to add a caveat on every single other thing, including the fact that we haven't seen half the movies because we're not interested in them. So what about his performance in Transformers The Last Knight?

Do you think we should recognize that here? I honestly didn't see that. Did you see Transformers The Last Knight? I did. I saw it in movie theaters. I went to a movie theater and I watched it.

It was like you went to multiple movie theaters. Yeah, I saw it six or seven times. I think it's important to respect Michael Bay's work. Chris, thanks so much for dropping by. That's it?

That's all you guys want from me? You don't want to talk about Deepwater Horizon? What is there to say? It's a stirring movie. I mean, it's just like, are these guys going to get off this rig, man? What's going on? I think we know the answer to that story.

I mean, that was based on a true story, Chris. Did you know that? Yeah, I know I do. Did you know that Patriot's Day was based on a true story? These are all true stories that he's making. God. Okay. I don't know what else there is to say. We forgot about Mark Wahlberg,

but also I feel okay with it. Amanda, you okay with it? I think you can be forgiven for it. I just wanted to comment. I just wanted to shout out Diane Lane. Diane Lane needs to be respected. I'm glad to have Chris's forgiveness. Thank you, Chris. Throughout this segment, Amanda and I were like Brie Larson in the class and the gambler, just observing Chris speechifying in awe and falling in love, frankly.

We fell in love with you, Chris. Thank you, Chris. Bye, guys. Okay. Top five. This was weirdly easy for me. Do you have any concerns about the composition of our top five? It probably is slightly too personal okay i think so

well not really because we're picking between super famous people and so there there are two here where i'm like we we picked our two favorite famous people and they also happen to be giant movie stars so it works out for us but you. But this does have personal preference to it. And I also am a little bit like, did we get the order totally right? But that's OK. Let's hash it out. We did this last time with under 35. We made some changes in the top five.

So are there some changes you want to make? But then we didn't because you posted the list. And it was just what you had written. Oh, did it not reflect the changes? No, but that's OK. I apologize. That was just what you had written. Oh, did it not reflect the changes? No, but that's okay. I apologize. That was just an oversight on my part. Okay, so number five, we have Brad Pitt.

Yeah. Are you saying that Brad Pitt is not actually one of the five greatest movie stars over 35? He is one of the five great movie stars of all time to Amanda Dobbins. And I think to you also so love brad i think a little bit it's just kind of the center of movie culture and you know how much has he done and is

he relevant but i i and and how much credit are we giving for producing and how much credit are we giving for just like you know making rosé and releasing like cool ads of you like on a lounger drinking rosé. And how much are we giving credit for the actual acting? I'm not giving him any credit for making rosé. I'm not even aware. He doesn't do that anymore, right? No, he still does. And he, in fact, you didn't see this?

No. Oh, yeah. No. Well, so they aren't divorced yet. The divorce isn't final yet. And what are they waiting for? I think they're dividing the assets. And I think the Chateau, Chateau Miraval of the Rosé is named after is like kind of in

the balance. But he recently released an ad. He took one of the photos from his GQ spread last fall and then like turned it into like the official Miraval ad for summer. This was in the last week. Oh, wow. So he's selling Miraval. Like that's an ongoing concern. Yes. He's actually official Miraval ad for summer. This was in the last week. Oh, wow. So he's selling Miraval. Like that's an ongoing concern.

Yes, he's actually selling Miraval. I didn't just make that up because I like that rosé. I wasn't sure if he launched a new brand or something. No, no, it's Miraval. Yeah. That's weird. I wonder, God willing, I'm never a part of like a three to five year long divorce. That's not something I want to ever happen to me.

I don't think anybody wants it, but I hope it doesn't happen to you either. I would consider it if we had to split a chateau. Like if I ever get to the chateau zone, I don't get there.

Do you think we can get there just from doing this pod? Probably. Yeah. I think content is the way. So well done. Thank you. I mean, Brad, you know,

Brad just won his first Oscar, you know, he and he had two great films in 2019. Like, and he absolutely deserved that Oscar. But the Oscar did have a tinge of we love this guy and we haven't given him an Oscar yet. Let's give him an Oscar, you know? Yeah. I mean, I agree with your point about him consistently as a producer identifying great projects, I think spotlighting great filmmakers and giving them opportunities with

Plan B. His next movie is called Bullet Train, and it's going to be directed by David Leitch, who directed Hobbs and Shaw and Atomic Blonde and worked on the John Wick films. So he still has his sights trained on continuing to be famous. You don't make a movie called Bullet Train, which frankly, sign me up. Put Bullet Train in my soul immediately. I'm ready to see that film. I'm so ready to see any film. Bullet Train could be starring Jean-Claude Van Damme today and I would watch it. So the fact that it's going to be starring Brad Pitt is very exciting. And I feel great about this. This is the guy who was in the Oceans films and Fight Club and Mr. and Mrs. Smith and Troy and Coen Brothers movies and The Counselor and Moneyball. He's the man man don't throw money ball at me like i don't know about money ball okay or i don't

know about brad pitt i mean i think if you want to make a short list of like the the most interesting or kind of the most representative famous people of of like our lifetimes in terms of what they represent and like the the various phases of his stardom and his movie stardom and what he encapsulates both of the movie industry and also like the celebrity industrial complex. Like he is totally up there, like top five for sure.

And number one for me. And if we're just gonna, you know, give the last few years a little padding because he rules and we like Miraval Rose, great, I accept. You simultaneously threw yourself at know, give the last few years a little padding because he rules and we like Miraval Rose. Great. I accept. You simultaneously threw yourself at and negged Brad Pitt in the same entry. That was impressive.

I am not negging Brad Pitt. I am a huge fan. Any movie he wants to make, any case of Miraval he wants to send my way, we're all available. What is? This is not Miraval spawn. Okay, just settle down uh number four number four is denzel washington so all all you need to know about denzel is that we just we watched the little things which was not a great film and and i was fine the whole time i enjoyed

the whole thing yeah um and it's almost entirely because denzel a little bit because of jared leto doing jared leto stuff but mostly because denzel is still at 66 years old and making mediocre films left and right. Like it's going out of style and is still also similarly captivating as some of the folks on this list and still also commands, I think, a unique kind of movie attention where when he makes a movie, it is a moment. Even if, even if you know, even if it's the equalizer two, you kind of have to clear out for the Denzel moment. And I,

even, even someone like Brad Pitt does not have that specific kind of power right now where it's like, all right, there's just, there is $75 million worth of people

who would like to pay money to see Denzel star in a film. And he is almost always the star of the film. So that's Denzel at four. Any thoughts? I'm a little nervous that he's too low. That's my only thing.

Because I agree with everything that you just said, you know, like singular talent and also just a singular career. And I thought Little Things, which was not good, was really instructive because everybody was like, oh, a new Denzel movie? Sure, I'll watch it yeah and that like and i think a lot of people listen to our podcast for the same reason it's

just like you say denzel and he can open a movie to go back to the conversation that started this forever ago in part one and very few people can do that Even the next three people who are about to name, they are working within franchise or IP or other things a lot of the time. And Denzel is working in the world of Denzel. It's a great point. That's enough. It's a great point. I might vote to bump him up.

So, okay. To me, one and two. One and two is a bit of a car crash for a variety of reasons. There's 25% of this, let's keep in mind, is what you could be

in the future. Okay. Now, Denzel is 66. Now, maybe he'll work into his 80s. I wouldn't hold that against him. But I think in terms of

what he's going to become, there's a shorter road there in front of him. He's about to become there's a there's a shorter shorter road there in front of him no I don't mean like tomorrow I mean like five years from now you know when I'm projecting in the future and now however number three number three is Tom Cruise right now we love Tom Cruise as a movie star on this show we talk about Tom Cruise all the time in theory this is going to be one of the great Tom Cruise years because he has both Mission Impossible 7 and Top Gun Maverick. Now, I don't know if those movies are going to come out. I hope they do. We'll see. But you actually made a very persuasive

point there, which is that Tom Cruise has to rely on the intellectual property to continue to power his movie stardom. And Denzel does not do that. I think we should flip them. And I say that as someone who's fascinated, who can't wait for either of those movies. Bobby, if you want to use this as an excuse to just lightly play the Top Gun theme song, no one will stop you. But he does need the franchises.

I do also think as a celebrity, fascinating character study, and I do not underrate that and obviously he's another person who has encompassed you know many eras of hollywood many different eras of himself many different types of movies and performances and you know you only wrote out like the last five years in the franchise movies and there's just the 80s and 90s performances oh it's insane it's insane yeah but i do think at this point the way he's kind of put his career back together he is he's kind of franchise man and denzel is denzel unto himself so i'm with you in general okay the thing is there's one key difference here in terms of the pursuit of kind of fame and notoriety, which is that Tom Cruise still does.

I need to go see Tenet in England and film myself and create a video. I still need to have a complete fucking meltdown in front of my crew and have that go viral. Now, I'm not saying he planted that audio, but maybe he did. I'm not saying that he did. I just want to make it clear that I'm not saying that he did that. But Tom Cruise is still famous in a way. Denzel is still an attraction as a movie star, but he doesn't really, like, he's not a public figure really in a meaningful way outside of the movies. You don't really see Denzel around anymore, which shouldn't be held against him per se.

But Tom Cruise's notoriety is still so high that i completely agree and i you left out the how to turn off motion smoothing video from that trio which is like you know my favorite whatever it's my all some of my favorite content it was in the last five years it's eligible okay um that is a cinema. It is cinema. So it's whether you think that that level of notoriety is working for or against him. And Bobby just let us know that that was literally in 2018, less than three years ago. I remembered that because we were in the podcast studio too when we explained to Wesley what that video was. Oh, right. And I'll never forget that.

Simpler times. Yeah. I enjoy those things. I don't know whether everyone else is receiving them with the nuance that you and I are. Perhaps you're right. So we'll flip. Denzel will be number three.

Tom Cruise will be number four. Okay. Now we have our top two. Now, again, I felt that these two should be here for a variety of reasons. But I do think that what's to come is a big part of this. Yeah. So who's number two? Charlize Theron. I think some people will blanch at this.

How can you say that Charlize Theron is a greater movie star, bigger movie star than Tom Cruise or Denzel Washington? I think that people will blanch at this. How can you say that Charlize Theron is a greater movie star, bigger movie star than Tom Cruise or Denzel Washington? I think that she is because she is, is doing all of the things she is doing. Every genre of movie. She is doing the high level physical performance. She's doing sophisticated character pieces. She's doing original stories stories she's also doing major

ip and she's only 45 years old and i think that mad max fury road basically like elevated her yeah to a plane that we've basically never seen for an actress in terms of the kinds of the versatility that she can have as a performer for a woman, but really for anyone because she's a woman, she can play a kind of part that a man can't play. I don't just mean female versus male roles. She just has a broad strata that frankly, Tom Cruise can't play. Tom Cruise can't play the kind of sensitive drama. We can't take him seriously in those roles anymore and Charlize can still do that at the snap of a finger so I see her as having an incredible amount of

power and also she can play romantic comedy and light comedy and she can do docudrama like Bombshell and she has won an Oscar so I think we may actually underrate her in the broad conversation of movie stardom similarly because like Denzel we don't know that much about her right now i my when my wife and i were discussing this last night

she was like charlie's a number two that's crazy and then we started talking about her personal life and like i don't even know what's going on in her personal life because she's living differently than some of her counterparts what do you think about charlie's this didn't surprise me at all you you put together kind of this initial ranking with our number two and our number one and I was like yeah that makes sense because she I agree that Mad Max Fury Road is pretty foundational in transitioning her from someone who's trying a lot of different things to someone who can do everything and I also think it kind of moves her from like a pretty vaunted like history of quote female action star to just action star. Exactly.

And and like, I mean, that's just great that a woman gets to do that, number one. And let's let's one type of role. Like, say, Tom Cruise does at this point or Brad Pitt does in a different way at this point. She's still trying stuff out. And I think, you know, we kind of forget all the things that she was trying. Like Longshot, which you and I both love, but absolutely no one saw, which is a bummer. And then the Old Guard and obviously Bombshell. That was all.

Was that all in 2019 or 2019 and 2020? And she is still young and really trying a lot of other things. I mean, that's the other thing in terms of being an action star. At some point, you do hit the limits of your age, but Charlize is not there yet. So there's plenty more to come. Her next movie is a Fast and the Furious movie. So she's participating

in all of the quadrants of Hollywood right now. And she has a lot of power. And she is not famous for her personal life in the way that Brad Pitt is. There's like, she dated Sean Penn for a couple of years, but otherwise, and the guy from Third Eye Blind like 25 years ago, but she's just not, she dated Sean Penn for a couple of years, but otherwise, and the guy from

Third Eye Blind like 25 years ago, but she's just not, that's not even really a part, she is purely, almost purely about the movies. And,

you know, I think The Old Guard is a highly imperfect movie, but she carries that movie on her shoulders. You know, that movie was built around her stardom.

She isn't even necessarily the full-time star of it, but it is, without her, there is no movie and that's kind of what we're getting at here. Number one.

So this is the exception that that breaks the rule that proves the rule because when we when we announced the rules in the last episode, I we got a lot of feedback that was like, but your number one boy

is not eligible based on what you said. And frankly, I don't care. I don't care that we're breaking our own rule. Who's number one? Leonardo DiCaprio. Gotta be. We do what we want.

This is our show, you know? No one can tell us that we can't put Leo on, even though he's only appeared in one film in the last five years. I think that the reason for this, in addition to the fact that we love Leo, we love talking about Leo, is Leo has not given up on movies at all. Leo is not dabbling in television. He's not developing a miniseries about, you know, D'Artagnan from the Three Musketeers. Like,

he's making movies. He's making Quentin Tarantino movies he's making you know he's making the Revenant he's making Martin Scorsese movies his next film is the Adam McKay film don't look up he is committed to

this art form and this podcast is committed to that art form too this podcast is not committed to content it's committed to movies so you know Leo is I think Leo is truly the only person on this entire list who every time he makes

a movie most people who care even one iota about movies are like i should check that out yeah i mean i think that he within the industry is like one of what three people who can still quote open a movie and then not only can he open movies but they're movies that we actually like and so he has he has he's a business draw and he is like a a quality draw like you actually want to see the things that he's involved in and no one else has that career right now no one else can afford to just make a movie every four years with a really great director and then, and be great in it. And then like go do beach volleyball or whatever he's doing. Seems like he's having a great time doing it by the way. Yeah. He also he's, he's, I think

in the, in the prime of his career, you know, his, his biggest films in recent years have been basically in the last decade, Inception, The Revenant, Django Unchained, Great Gatsby, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. He's in his mid-40s and he is, much like Charlize, there's ostensibly 30 more years of Leonardo DiCaprio movies if he chooses to make them and who knows

if there will be a theatrical movie business in 30 years. But there's still so much to come from him that just feels like kind of a logical number one despite the fact that we broke our rule also he was in titanic i mean i mean he was which it feels notable like we should probably mention he was in like this gigantic movie we didn't talk about anyone's like 90s or 2000s in this list even though all of these people were just like mega movie stars in the 90s and the

2000s that's why they're on this list so that's why we didn't name check all of the great movies that they were a part of but yeah with the rare exception i would say of viola davis bradley cooper melissa mccarthy and adam driver everybody else in the top 20 essentially forged their way in the 90s you know they that's really they they built or the 70s or the 80s as it were but they they have had a long runway which is why they're at the top of the list and they have stuck with movies you know they haven't walked away like nicholson walked away or something like that so you know 10 years from now this list could be radically different rat like radically in the same but like in 2010

or 2011 i think you would have seen will smith and robert downey jr and tom hanks and the rock and keanu and merrill and brad and tom and you know leonardo 10 years from now i don't i don't know if any of those people are going to be there. What do you think? Wow. None of them? Well, like Leo would be there. Yes. Because he's in his 40s. Charlize will probably be there. Charlize will be there.

But like Meryl's not going to. Meryl's going to be 81 years old. She's going to be at the center of movie culture. Well, you don't know. It's surprising that she's at the center of movie culture at 71. That's true. You know, it's never been done before. Okay.

And that like this is the problem with doing 35 under, over 35. It's just a very large category of people. We have to make room for Pikachu. Okay. We have to clear out for Charizard. What is it called? Bobby, it's your time. Come on. Squirtle. Squirtle was a real one. Yeah. Bobby, can's your time. Come on. Squirtle. Squirtle was a real one. Yeah. Bobby, can you help us? Bobby wants me to say Bulbasaur.

I got that right. I said it. All right. I said it. That's our list. I feel great about it. You feel okay about it? I do.

Do you think we were too obvious? Certainly. Okay. Do you feel sad about that? Um, I'm a little concerned about Mr. Scorsese's response to my questioning his, uh, genie out of the bottle thing. That's kind of where I'm hung up right now. The list is fine. The list is, the list is just content.

It's not art. That is true. And that's, you know, that's okay. As long as we don't get them confused. Do you notice any major differences between our under 35 list and our over 35 list? It's like separate from obviously like age and generations and all of that stuff. Under 35 is almost entirely aspirational. Over 35 is a lot of past performance, but I think that that's understandable. Right. I think track record versus our hopes and dreams. You know, I look at Beanie Feldstein or Glenn Powell on the under 35 list

and I'm like, you know, maybe we reached a little bit on these but then I look at Daniel Kaluuya and I'm like, is this guy Daniel Day-Lewis? I mean, he might be the best living actor in the world right now. So it's tough. Also, we've made up all of this this this is a complete farce and we're

fortunate to be in a position to make lists like this in the first place also it's hard to become a movie star it doesn't happen instantly most 23 year olds don't aren't especially not now when you know 23 year olds don't even watch movies let alone star in them and then become you sound like marty well just railing on the kids i'm challenging the 23 year olds to show up and watch some films and you know then curate some other stuff and not make us learn any more about pokemons which is the is the group name and then pikachu is one of the pokemon as i learned right before we did this podcast well done you're jigglypuff okay that's Bobby. We're cut off now. Say the next one, Amanda. Yeah. Snorlax? Okay. Sure.

We've gone off the rails here. This was a performance worthy of Galadriel. Nice job, Amanda. If you like this podcast, please continue listening because next week Amanda and I will be back and we will be joined by Chris Ryan and we will be doing a movie draft. That movie draft is almost

certainly going to be about the year 1984, which is Amanda's birth year. Yeah. Have you thought about how Chris has a major advantage? Because it was a life of seven years? Yes. I almost posted the poll as 1942 for Chris's birth year, just to see what kind of reaction we'd get. But then I thought better of it and it was a mistake and I was like, whatever, it's fine. Yeah, Chris has an advantage. He's incredibly old. It's fine. We love him.

Right. But it is interesting because I was going through and I've seen some of these, but you know, I was born this year. So it's a lot of catching up to do. You got to spend the weekend digging into the crates. That's what you got to do. Like De La Soul.

Okay. Thanks, Amanda. Bobby, thank you so much for all your work on this show. Please tune in next week when the movie draft returns. We'll see you then.