The Big Picture - The Oscars Snubs Draft. Plus: ‘Sirāt’!

Episode Date: February 16, 2026

We’re drafting again! Sean and Amanda are joined by Chris Ryan, Joanna Robisnon, and The Ankler’s Katey Rich to right the Academy’s wrongs by drafting the biggest Oscars snubs of all time. Before diving in though, they briefly cover this year’s Best Picture race (2:00). Then, they introduce the new categories and rules for this format and draft (12:33). Next, Sean and Amanda briefly cover Óliver Laxe’s ‘Sirāt’ and talk through its deeply affective emotional provocation  (2:06:21). Finally, Sean is joined by Laxe to explain why he feels like the audience dies while watching his film, how he experienced rave culture before portraying it on screen, and why creating transformative images that evoke feeling is the most crucial aspect of cinema (2:16:16).  Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guests: Óliver Laxe, Chris Ryan, Joanna Robinson, and Katey Rich Producer: Jack Sanders Production Support: Lucas Cavanagh A State Farm agent can help you choose the coverage you need. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.® Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Sean Fennacy. I'm Amanda Dobbin. And this is the big picture of conversation show about Oscar Snubbs. CR is here. So, of course, we're drafting. We also have two very special guests. One is the one and only, Joanna Robinson. From House of R, the Ringerverse, prestige TV podcast, Talk the Thrones,

various and sundry podcasts outside of that. Welcome back. Thanks for having me. Also here for the second time Katie Rich. Oh, yeah. Woo! In the bush. The prestige junkie podcast.

And a long time... Okay, so I had to ask you this question. Yeah. Do you consider yourself an Oscar pundit? I don't love that word. Okay. But I will say at the nominees luncheon, which I attended yesterday,

the Academy President, like, shot it out people who make predictions as being part of the system. So it's like, oh, maybe I should embrace being a pundit if the Academy President thinks I matter. But I don't, like, I don't think my predictions are always very good.

Okay, so you are a pundit. So I don't know. Affirmed. C.R. You are a man. A strong man. No, I just like, heart brute. I'm just like, I didn't even know What are awards?

We are going to be drafting today Oscar Snubs. It's a very complicated series of categories. We will talk through all of them later in this episode. I have a conversation with Oliver Lash. He is the writer-director of Surratt, which is a fascinating movie that Amanda and I will also talk about later in this episode. Please stick around for our conversation. We'll be right back, right after this.

This episode of The Big Picture is presented by State Farm. You know those friends who show up for whatever you're into? The ones will debate which superhero universe is better or binge true crime documentaries with you at 3 in the morning. those friends are gold. State Farm is like that, helping you figure out the coverage that actually fits.

Car, home, life, whatever you need, they've got your back. And if you want a hand, a local agent is just a tap away on their award-winning app. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Okay, before we get into snubs

and snubbings and snubbies and flubs, there is an Oscar race going on right now. We've been talking about it on this podcast. We'd be remiss if we didn't talk about this year's race a little bit with Joe and Katie here, two of the goats in the race game.

Joe or Joanna? We just talked about this. I say Joe. Okay. And it will be Joe till I die. Oh, I'm going to say Joanna, but just I don't want to make it weird. It's the same person.

Yeah. Well, it's like you're with your ex-boyfriend and your current boyfriend. Oh, we'll be in like together forever. I know. Katie, what do you make a race? What's going on? How are you feeling?

You know, after, so I've been doing a bunch of award season events. As I said, I was at the nominees's lunch, and I had someone yesterday being like, have you changed your predictions based on that? And I was like, I don't know how to do that. That's a room full of like 800 people maybe and the academy is 10,000. But I do think the sinners versus one battle after another thing kind of keeps going. It keeps staying unsettled.

You see something like at the luncheon yesterday, Ryan Coogler and Zinzie Coogler definitely got the biggest applause in the entire room. Like there is that sinner's enthusiasm. But also it's two great movies. And I can't feel too bad about it working out that way. So it's not, I think I know who I want to win, but I kind of just, I want the drama to stay as long as I can. We want action in this. Katie, how many interviews did you do do yesterday? at the Indianese luncheon.

Individual people or total interviews? Total interviews. I think it's like 38. So many people. 45 people. Yeah, I think that's the number. It's so weak. Great question.

I mean, we're gonna, if you go to the ankle, you'll see the videos. We've got super cuts. We ask people about their favorite Oscar winning movies, got some fascinating answers. And you know, they say, hey, here's the director of this short that you've watched.

It's pretty good. I'm like, hey, I'll give you some attention. I want to help you feel part of this whole thing. So it's a part of the celebration of it. But then you get to the end and you're like, I don't know how to talk anymore. Katie's big move at every Vanity Fair Oscar party was to go up to the below-the-line people and say like, hey, can I hold your Oscar? Oh, yeah.

And they're a rule to let you do it, to be clear. That's kind of sensual. But also they're like, yeah, absolutely. They're drunk. They're having a great time. It's a very good move if you ever see someone with an Oscar. Okay. CR, you are holding fast on F-1.

Yes. Last we spoke, you... Inside track. And I have actually done 38 interviews for F-1. Not people from F-1, but going out to the motorsports community. And preaching its awards potential. What have you learned? You know, there's some mixed feelings about F1

within the motorsports community. I learned that when we did the rewatchables. A lot of people just being like, this is not my, this doesn't represent Formula One racing. Not my F1. Yeah. Wow.

I feel like, are we going to get a split this year? Is that like the narrative that's emerging after PTA wins DGAs? We discussed it on the episode last week. It's, I, like, I do understand that that's appealing. and also that at this point in the award season, as Katie's pointing out, like, we just need something to talk about. You know, we have five weeks left. I don't know.

I don't know if we're going to. You've not moved off of one battle the whole time. I do. I think that in the last few years, the race has become apparent, or the winner has become apparent earlier and earlier. And we second guess ourselves and we try to make the race interesting. And then is an aura. And I do think that there's a huge amount of enthusiasm for sinners,

which is a great movie. And I'm with Katie that it would be great if it wins. And Sean and I were talking about how we are in the unusual position of liking both contenders. You know, normally in this situation. It's something versus something. Exactly. And when we feel very strongly about what should win, I would be very happy with either. I do think that the last few years show us that one movie kind of declares itself the Colossus very early on and just keeps going.

So I do still think it will be one battle, but that could be very wrong. What do you think? I think the cynical part of me says it'll, and I love one battle, so it's not a negative result. But I think it'll be one battle. But there's a part of me that wants us to all use our power here, whatever, however thin it may be, to sort of say, what if it's sinners? That would be so exciting. And the more people say, talk about it as if it's a likelihood, then the more the voters will say, like, huh, people are talking about it. We should do it.

So that's always my attitude during the Oscar race is like keep the hope alive. Yeah. I think we just have to wait until the PGAs. I think the PGAs are really going to tell the story because that's also ranked choice voting and that is just like the Oscar voting. And if Cinners wins there, it's going to be a nail biter. Because we all assume Cenders is going to win SAG for interesting reasons to me. Like Ono Battle has a great ensemble also, but Cyners just seems to have it. So SAG won't tell us as much as PGA.

Yeah. I feel like they both share a lot of similarities in casting that I find interesting. They both have real discoveries, young discoveries that are the centerpieces of the movies. but they also have like this really fascinating and strong veteran group of actors behind them. You know, I think people, you don't get as much credit for casting somebody like Leo when it comes to the ensemble. You know, usually movies that have a mega star right in the middle don't win in that category. So, you know, we'll say. But by the majority of the same thing.

True. Younger, I guess. Maybe a little less proven. But I do think it's going to, I think PGA is going to say a lot. What about, what about best actor? Where are you, Katie? I'm still on Timmy. I think it just makes sense for it to be him.

It was, again, talking to shadowy Oscar campaigners. You know, everyone's just gossiping this time of year who is saying he keeps talking to Academy members who kind of think he's obnoxious and too young and all the stuff we say about Timmy. And I just, I can't figure out how real that is. The we, the we is not coming over to this side of the table. You know, he's 30. We just have to deal with that. His skin is beautiful.

And they have to make our bees. I thought we were all at the DGAs. And I thought he acquitted himself really well in that room, you know? Like he really, he was getting a lot of laughs. people seem to He had, I think has kind of like Was that his Cynthia Arevo speech? What was the one where he was just like, oh, I have this

really great Cynthia Arivo story, but she left? No. This was the one where he said that Josh Safdi turned to him out of the blue the other day and said, if you ever need an alias, it should be Mike Dypey. Mike Dype? Yeah. He was just like, that was unprompted by anything.

Incidentally, is it Wednesday? Were we recording on Wednesday? Yes. S.D. Kid, the rapper from Liverpool that some people think is Timothy Shalameh. is performing at Echoplex in LA and it's like $500 ticket because people think Timmy will be there. Oh, interesting.

You going? No, I have a live show. Yeah. Oh, sorry. Excuse that. Tom. Jeez. You might see your opening for a steamy.

I am a best he did in fact. I am a Liverpoolman rapper. Were there any major snubs this year that we felt like were unforgivable? I've been so deep in snubs from every year. Do you want to find snub for us? Yeah, yeah. is a snub. Oh, here we go. Well, honestly, I don't know. I don't know that it's a useful word.

That's not the breakout clip we were looking. Well, I don't operate that way. You know, I think there is complexity in all of these concepts. You know, Mark Harris, long-time Oscar pundit author has like famously for years been saying there's no such thing as a snub, that that's not how this works. I've never really agreed with that point of view. I do think that, for example, Amanda Seifred not getting in over Kate Hudson to me, I find hard to accept. Like from a purely emotional and analytical perspective, it's just a much bigger and more interesting performance, in my opinion.

Subjective. Snubs are subjective, you know, and that's kind of how this works. But over time, the body tends to recognize greatness and a lot of the movies and performances that we'll talk about throughout this draft, there's not a lot of controversy around the greatness of 2001 of Space Odyssey, for example. You might not like it, but it has been acclaimed and affirmed as a masterpiece. piece. So a movie like that, I think rises very clearly to the level of snub. But that's not a specific definition. It's just kind of a gut feeling that I have. I don't know. What do you think?

I think you can only have distance to understand a snub. That's what I think, which I think is what's so interesting about what we're going to do today. But Katie and I, a couple months ago, whenever that was, we went back through sort of like the last 10 years of Best Picture wins. And we were just looking at like, what do we think should have won? And that was a really fun exercise because, you know, with some distance, you can say what the movie of that year was and how it's resonating, you know, down the line of history. I don't think Anora is going to be the movie of that year. I don't think we yet know exactly what the movie of that year is, you know? So that's why I like what we're doing because we can go back as far as we want into Oscar history to look at why

massive famous directors never got an Oscar win and rectify it here today on this podcast. Or why actors win for a performance that you look at, you're like, no one cares about the movie. Nobody remembers it. But they were in the press and they were doing interviews in an interesting way. And it was a make good for other ones. Oh, yeah. We're going to definitely talk about makeup wins. It's always interesting to me why things happen, even if it's not the right thing. That's why I love the Oscars, even when they get it wrong. And that's what so much of this is going to be. So the story behind it from that moment is totally fascinating, even if it's not the right win at all.

What do you think? I mean, I do think Joe's right that some of it is historical. And then some of it is also a response to the fact that, But this is an industry now. And so a snub is a very real thing, in my opinion, because we spend so much time talking about who will and won't be nominated. And there is more and more attention paid to predictions and betting markets and all sorts of things. And then you wake up and someone doesn't get the phone call on Oscar morning.

And so there is that real feeling, I think, and entire businesses are oriented around, oh, I thought we had this or I thought this person was going to be in. Chase Infinity would have been my pick over Kate's, yeah, Kate Hudson in that best actress spot. but it's it's someone who was present and who has been in the conversation and then suddenly was not. And, you know, and I guess in the in the present tense, that's based on, you know, for your consideration in the industry. And then to Joe's point, historically, it's the movies that are in the conversation

because we still talk about them. Right. Chris, you're not as Oscar-pilled as the four of us. I'm not, no. But it was a really interesting exercise to go back through Oscar history and both see how far back, you know, historical disappointments reach beyond. like Harvey Weinstein and stuff like that. Like it's like it goes all the way back to pretty much the inception of the award.

So it was really cool to look and be like, oh man, like I can't believe this didn't get nominated. I can't believe this didn't win. You have two different categories, like two different styles of category here that I think is worth noting in the outset of this conversation. One is we're going to do a bunch of best pictures that are about nominees that didn't win that we feel like we're snubbed. and some that are, then we have best pictures that we feel like should have been nominated that were, we do the same for the performers or similar to the performers. You want to talk about

all the ornate rules that have been designed? I think you should talk about it because this is your architect from the Matrix moment and I want to see if you've walled yourself in with your own stacks of DVDs and can't see over the piles. First of all, this is, I was born to do this. I mean, this is really...

And it became a little annoying. You know, the more, the more that we all had to like consult the great This is the longest text message thread ever of questions about the rules. Yeah. And I think, well, I'll just speak to myself. Your feelings are already hurt. Don't be hurt.

I feel like I've done it. I feel like I have, the Wizard of Oz has arrived. There were a couple times we're like, is this too hard? And we're like, no, no, no, we can do this. But then also, there are some questions I didn't ask. I was like, you've asked nine questions in a row. I think that's as many questions as you get. And honestly, the fuck-ups and the mishaps are part of the fun, too.

Basically, what I wrote through, how did we, how did I select the categories? It was more of like an emotional clarification around my thinking around this exercise. All of the questions that you guys asked, all of which were very good, we're really more practical. We're like, how are we going to do this? So I think I'll just go through what I set up

and then you guys can talk about the things that you were like, but this, but this, all of which I think the audience at home needs to understand so that they can follow along as we play the game. Deal? Yeah. Okay.

So we want to represent films that didn't get nominated at all as well as nominees that were brutally overlooked. That can happen in both of the types of categories that we have selected here, and Katie has been pushing on that, and I think that that makes a lot of sense. Also, it's impossible to limit our pool

beyond decades or centuries, so we are relying on each other to narrativeize our picks and explain why the snub was so egregious in the moment. And for me, at least, I'm curious what ramifications it had for future Academy Awards.

So a lot of times when a film or a performance wins, there's a big ripple effect through history around future victories for other actors and actresses, something I'm fascinated by. And then when selecting, you must choose both the film that was snubbed,

and the film you would replace it with in the nomination categories. In the winner categories, it's assumed it would replace the winner, but be prepared to discuss what the winner was in the category and why it did not deserve the win. Now, in terms of the rules of engagement, if you take a movie from a specific year or performance from a specific year, that year is then completely off the board. So that makes this a very challenging game.

You pointed out that means, because we have seven categories, We will have 49 different years of Oscar history represented here. I think I did bad math. 35 years, right? 35, sorry, seven times five. No one responded to that. I was like, oh, it's because my math was bad. Sorry, 35 years.

Clearly mine was as well because I didn't double check that. So 35 years across the 90 plus years of Oscar history, which is a lot, but not so many. Are you daunted by that? No. Yeah. Good job. I don't think so. Yeah.

It's okay. I mean, it's a lot of movies. Well, you know, there's another restriction that I kind of added to this for myself, which is not when I expect everybody to, but for the, nominee snubs so for things that were not even nominated I tried to keep it like I could make an argument

that this plausibly could have or should have been nominated. Yeah, yeah. I did it. So I'm not doing like yes you know why didn't why didn't Gina Carrano get nominated for Haywire or something like that. Yeah, she though you know? We can live with that one I think. I'll know. Just say, man, don't worry.

You know, like I did also find myself, there were a few where I, especially in the winner categories where I was like, I can't actually take the Oscar away from the winner. Oh, okay. That's interesting. In the real year. I, like, I can't make that argument

or I don't think, I don't think that's good for history of the world. And so I didn't put it down. That happened a couple times. I have two that I think I'm going to be pressed to make the argument for but I believe in it. Again, this is a subjective game. Yes. There is not a holistic

total truth about even good Oscar wins, they can be upended or undermined, and we should do that. I think it's more fun if we do. How do you guys feel about like the winners that like, from the 30s and 40s, you may or may not have seen, and there's a whole bunch of other things you might not have seen, and there's something you want to make the case for.

Do we feel okay, just taking away the Oscar from someone whose movie we haven't seen? I intend to do it today. All right. Just making sure. It is on my board. Okay, here are the seven categories. Best Picture nominee

Snubb 20th century. So that means these are all movies that did not make it into Best Picture That we believe should have gotten in. Best Picture nominee snub 21st century, obviously a much smaller pool to pull from there.

Best Picture winner snub. Now, in this category and an all winner categories, like I said, you can choose something that was not nominated. I'm personally not going to be doing that, but anything that's on the board

that recently could have been nominated in one, I think is reasonable. Does that make sense too? Yeah, because we have the nomination categories also for pictures. Yes. Makes sense of Slub. Best actor winner snub,

Best actress winner snub, best director winner snub, and wildcard. What's wild card? Anything that somehow didn't get drafted. Doesn't have to be from those six that we set up. It could be sound design. Oh. If you wanted it to be. Shit.

You got some strong sound design opinion. Yeah. You got it. Can you do it from any like a defunct category that no longer exists? I think so. Are you going to do like black and white photography? Sure, obviously. You know me.

Young performer. There have been some interesting ones that they eradicated. The June and I oscaries. Yeah. back then. That's it. How does that sound? That sounds good.

Any other questions? I think I might need to use my computer. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm going to try it. Did you get thrown off by Wildcard? No, but I just think I'm going to need to like,

as things get taken off the board, I do think I'm going to need to have like a little bit more of a. While you're getting it, let's vamp because I asked Amanda what superpower she wants to have on the previous episode and I want to know what Katie and Joanne will say to that answer. Oh, oh, wait. Oh, you have,

you've already answered that. No, it wasn't what superpower. It was more specific. You were like, I don't want to be a shapeshifter. I'm into invisibility, teleportation, mind control. We were talking about mutants or something.

Why were we talking about mutants on the show? Is it something we did? Maybe. Why are we talking about movies? It's a part of the show. But it was also about aliens. I don't, it wasn't an X-Men thing. It was.

We were talking about the new mutants. The film of the new show. We were talking about the gap of time. You were talking about the film The New Mutants? We were. Because we were talking about this 11 months that we're living inside of between superhero movies is the longest stretch of time I learned since the, the period between 1998

and 2000, the longest stretch where we haven't had a superhero movie. Wait, Joanna, that's news to you too? I would have thought you were on top of this. Oh, you would have thought.

I was like, I haven't been talking to Joanna enough. I don't know this. Two Game of Thrones shows this year. Like, we got plenty to be on. Katie, what's your superpower? I think it's teleportation. It's like,

and it's such a boring grown-up thing. But like, I don't live in L.A. I come here a lot for work. I just, the ability to just be somewhere. Even just like if you're trying to get across town, if you're trying to pick your kid up, how often are you like,

late to pick your kid up and like shit if I can just be there right now it's uh it's so useful it's a good call Joanna what do you think it's the same but like more in the vein of like world travel like you're super fun you're gonna use your powers for good that's true I don't have a kid to pick up from daycare yeah what are you want yeah that's all that's I'd like to be Michael man

that's my super man you sure that's super super man with two ends nice I like that you know it's all of them are poison chalaces you know because all of our favorite mutants they're like my great power, but my great frailty. Wow.

I have a hard time to the death time. I just feel like I can nail it. Yeah. Well, I'm probably expectation, right? That it's something like, well, I definitely think that you can be in this meeting and also and the class mom and also in Europe or whatever. What was cable's power?

I don't. I didn't get a giant gun. D.T. Time travel. Time travel. I'll be cable. That's going to be cable. I love that. I want to see the fan art. Right. now of CR's table. Wow.

That is achievable. That is very achievable. CR heads, you have your assignment. Okay, I think we should set a draft order. Jack? crucial here. I know. So, here we go.

Oh, this is exciting. Two just flew out. I don't know if you saw that. Two would. Two of your names, so I'm going to grab one from my lap. Is it a bowl with our names in it? Yeah, it's a Dungeons and Dragons die. I keep hearing about the Dungeons and Dragons die, but I couldn't really picture it.

Oh, well, maybe the Dungeons and Dragons are coming through because with the first overall pick is Joanna Robinson. Wow. Exciting. Congratulations. Drafting second, Amanda Dobbins. Wow. Okay.

At least it's not last. I've had the turn so many times. You guys feel like the draft order is crucial for this one. I feel like there are so many options. Like, is there a clear... There are so many options, but there are like five at the top that you really want to get. And like, I guess it's... We want to see for a couple years.

I had a hard time not feeling like we're just making a list of the list of best ones, but I want the best ones, right? Like, someone's going to like, but like, I was listening to you on the hype draft. I was like, I just want what I care about. I don't care. There's some things that I think will just be cool to have, you know, that are interesting to me. And then there's, like, for you and I, there's like five or six that we can't stop talking about.

And the year of it all, there are like a few years that are going to go pretty fast. So that's the issue. Drafting third is Chris Ryan, fourth, Sean Fennacy, fifth, Katie. Oh, Katie on the turn. Are you ready for this? And you understand what the turn is? I get two. Yeah, okay.

Okay. But you have to wait. This will be in snake fashion. Okay. You like snake fashion? I do like snake fashion. Thanks. Well, the moment of truth.

Yeah. I think there's only one first choice. Okay. Oh, wow. Do you disagree? I think there are two. I think there are two really strong first contenders. Okay, okay.

But I think that is also a little bit on personal preference, you know? For sure. For sure. I'm very curious to hear what you do. Okay. Well, I think in. Best picture win snub I'm taking Mad Max Fury Road

Off the table Wow You guys don't think that's the number one fact All right So what year is that? That is 2015 off the table Yeah and that's not thinking strategically Of like who else can I knock off the table

I had a really good wild card for 2015 I had a really good 2015 too Was yours also Ray Fides from Bigger Splash? Well that was going to be a fun run Goodbye Delete from Wildcard Okay It was going to be Carol best picture nominee.

Okay. That's a great one. That's good. And look at the damage I did. Great for me. Okay. All right. Well, speak on it.

Good one. I think when Katie and we're looking back with love and respect to spotlight. I guess you just all of the respect to journalism under assault. You know? It's not about journalism. It's about the post-apocalypse now, Chris. That's the reality. I can't wait for Marty Barrett to weigh in on your picture.

What feels more resonant? Guzzaline or journalism right now? It's guzzaline. So I... They're intertwined. I think that, you know, this is a year where this is before, you know, post-Dark Night sort of we are trying to show that we are hip to genre, but it is before a bigger pivot to we are actually honoring genre in the top categories move that the Academy made.

So Mad Max Ferry Road won a bunch, like all these below the line awards. But I remember the conversation this year was just sort of like, but no way it's going to win best picture. And I think if this were to happen again, it would definitely be a different conversation. You know what I mean? I think this is in the kind of the blood of the sinners conversation. This is a real true blue genre movie with a crazy veneer freak out ending. And stuff like that, I mean, through the first 75 years of the Oscars, had no chance. And now, you know, it's changing.

Exactly. After like everything, everyone all at once and, et cetera. And so I think that Mad Max Ferey Road as a movie that, Almost everyone acknowledges is an absolute classic that worked despite itself and has an incredible book written about it that a lot of people, like most people who love film have read Kyle Becannon's book. So like if you're a film that the Gen Pop loves and film scholars study, you deserve to have won the best picture that year. So that is my pick. It's a tough one for CR. Yeah.

Big spotlight head. No, I'm excited to this is a good like, I would love to have picked that. It was not in like my upper upper like blue blue ribbon. Like I have to get this. So this is a really good way to start. I'm up. You're up. So we can talk about strategy here.

I've learned over the years if you really want something. If something's important to you, you got to take it. Even though that means in my case, I'm leaving 2007 on the board. I'm leaving 76 on the board. I in 2010 also in Best Picture nominee snub. I mean, winner snub will be taking the social network. which to me is one of the great miscarriage of Oscar justices of our lifetime. And this is still my favorite David Fincher movie, certainly my favorite Aaron Sorkin movie.

It was our number one on 25 for 25. And it lost to the King's Beach. Like, I don't know what you say. It lost to a Tom Hooper movie. So, and I like Colin Firth as much as the next woman. I just, this was insane. And David Fentra doesn't have an Oscar. Like, what are we doing?

What are we doing? What are we doing? So, that's my pick. Thank you so much. You guys just picked two movies that are like classic old Oscars. Like what the Oscars were before, they expanded the Academy.

I think that the Madden Max year is an Oscar so white year. Like it really, those, like the last two of the like, come on guys. We can't really keep doing this anymore. And now it's different. And with the King's speech, like Colin, he won as, it felt like a make good to me. in my heart for a single man, for losing for a single man.

And so I'm happy with his win, but that movie did not need to win. Do you know what I mean? The Tom Hooper win is arguably worse. I mean, that's an abominable in an Oscar history. The King's Beach is a perfectly fine movie that has been villainized because it lost. It won in this race. And because of the Weinstein. Right, sure.

And the tactics by which it, you know, it won the race. But yeah, that to me, I thought, for our purposes, that was the number one overall pick. But actually, it makes complete sense. based on your passions in history that you would go Mad Max Fury Road. Okay. CR. You're at number three.

You've heard two passionate 2010's selections. Yeah. Are you taking this in 1930s? No, not yet. I think I'm going to do, for Best Picture Winner Snub, I'm going to do 1990 and I'm going to take Goodfellas over dances with wolves. This is a really difficult choice because there's a couple here,

especially in this era that I'd like to correct. but this is the most egregious one. Now, obviously from personal bias, Goodfellas is one of my favorite films ever made, but I think history has proven that this is a much more significant piece of cinema and a much more, much larger pop culture footprint

than dances as wolves. It's just not even that bad of a movie, but is like a classic, like, great man, great, you know, great effort on one man's part, Costner directing himself. Goodfellas is just like a flat-out, five-star watch it 400 times masterpiece.

And the fact that Scorsese had to wait, what, 20 more years to get his Oscar for departed? 16. 16. Yeah. It's just ridiculous. So I'll take Goodfellas. Can I ask him a teacher question? Yeah. So we were saying before that like if I pick like, if I pick Scorsese losing for Goodfellas,

then like someone else isn't going to be able to draft him for taxi driver or something. Do we say that for movies too? Like we're not doing another Fincher movie. We're not doing another Scorsese movie or does that? Oh, I don't think so. Okay. It seems too hard to me. Yeah.

I think for actor, yes, but for filmmaker. Also, because the filmmaker doesn't get the best picture win. That's true. Goodfellas is off the board. But Martin Scorsese is not. But Martin Scorsese is not. 90 is off the board, which is good. You saved me from doing a very trolly thing of taking Julia Roberts for a pretty woman in 1990,

which I was never going to do because I also believe that Goodfellas is like the greater injustice. But I did just believe it. That would have been funny. Yeah. Well, but listen. It had very low likelihood of happening. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I also, like, that's one of the things where I was talking about where even some of my picks and doing like Amanda's shit, like, my heart isn't really in that one.

Well, I think if you can only... There's going to be room for it in certain places. If you can only have one pick from 1990, it's got to be good fellas or Scorsese. There's also, like, as I think about it as this, like, fixing history, Julie Roberts has her Oscar. You know what I mean? Like, that's how I approached a lot of these wins. She's good in Brockovich and I love that dress. I did the opposite in a lot of cases.

In a lot of cases, I was like, this person got their Oscar. for the wrong movie. And so I'm going to try to work backwards to fix that. Did you think time travel is your superpower? Because that feels like which is your time. I would like to control time and space. Is that on the board? Is that something?

In this room, I think it is. The infinity gems are about, right? So that's why I want the gone. I don't need a power. I need a glove. Okay. That's what I do.

Okay. Thanos it is. Um. So I'm looking for Chris Ryan is cable fan art and Sean Fennesia is Thanos. I mean, long time listeners in the show. No, Thanos is my guy.

And then just a trio of teleporters over here. Go to the beach, going downtown. Go to the beach, going downtown. It sounds great. It's really interesting that the three picks have been best picture winners because that is the place where our mind goes when we think of snubs, right? We think of, and I don't even, it's really more injustice or travesties.

You know, years ago at Grantland, we did a bracket a whole week of Oscar travesties, one of my first. That was sort of the origin, I think, of whatever the fuck this show is. And there are a handful, there are a handful of travesties. of brutal travesties. I think especially the last two or two that in my mind are egregious. I think. Not yours, Joanna.

No, I don't think it's egregious because I think spotlight people have a warm feeling about. And not that they don't have a warm feeling towards dances of the wolves. I feel like people do still kind of like that movie, but they've taken on more villainous personas. I'm just going to go with, like, I think, maybe the worst win of all time for Best Picture winner, which has broke back down and over crash. It had to be done. Great.

And it's a little bit of a chalk pick and it kind of doesn't really necessitate a huge explanation, but it is a bizarre win. It's a year where there was a split where Angley did win Best Director. This takes 2005 off the board, by the way. Yeah, deleting the Squid in the Whale from Best Nominee stuff. Tough one. Well, you know, obviously Angley's movie is beautiful and Paul Haggis's movie is kind of been coherent as you and Van explored on the rewatchables.

It is kind of an amusing how the fuck did this happen. Revisit. But, uh, well, we were fixing racism. And we did. And we did fix it. We did fix it because we got Green Book 13 years later and it fixed it. So, um, thanks to them. Um, there are other ones that I think I maybe feel a little bit more personally

passionate about, about movies that I wish would have won. But I think that this is the, this is the, the snub of snubs in my mind. Okay. Katie, you've got two tips. I know, and I feel like all these, you pass I've had in my mind of where I can go. Now it's actually coming down to making some choices. I still think none of you have done the best picture snub that I thought was going to happen. And this is going to be nominations for me, but it's due the right thing.

Yeah, yeah. In 1989. Yeah, taking 89 off the board is tough for me. I don't think that you can do another one for 89 than do the right thing. You can't, even though like I have do the right thing instead of when Harry Metz Alley, even though when Harry Met's Alley is also bite. It's another one where the do the right thing is. like, is probably the other great travesty.

It's tough. It's tough for my Spike Lee and director host, but that's okay. I know. It's tough for that. Like, I've made a case at one point for Fight the Power, and original song as being an all-time snub. Like, that would be a fun one. But again, the fact that, like,

but you're good with Danny Aiella being the only acting. I think that makes sense. I think that was right and true. And history has pointed out. The fact that it repeats itself again later on when you've got Greenbook, the same year as Black Klansman, like the Spike Lee really has done a lot to kind of call the Oscars for their blind spots.

Like, you know, the Oscars so white movement, the International Academy happened beyond him, but he's been pushing that Boulder up a hill for a long time. We may have a chance to talk about other major Spikely snubs at the Oscars, but I do think do the right thing is kind of the BL end all. There's that amazing red carpet moment from 2018 where he's asked about Green Book on the right carpet, and he kind of looks into the camera and he's like,

now he like kind of runs away laughing and maniacally. Because it was the interviewer was British. That was at the VF Oscar. Yeah. It was a very funny. that you're not. Okay, Katie, you've got another pick. Okay, so, Sean, I feel like I'm going to jump ahead to what you were trying to do in terms

of the fixing history aspect of this because they didn't really follow what you were doing. And I feel there's a lot of people who were not even nominated in some of these acting categories that I wanted to make the case for, but then I came across the way to fix history completely. Okay. And I want to throw this out there. And I'm nervous about taking this year off the board because you guys are going to have thought of something I haven't done. But I'm going to 1974.

Okay. If you give Jack Nicholson, Best Actor for Chinatown. that he loses that year to Art Carney and Harry and Tonto, a movie I have not seen, and know very little about it. It's about a cat, which is up my alley. I want to give all due respect to Art Carney. It's a nice film. It does seem like a nice film and everyone liked him, and it was a real kind of when we've seen a lot of time where someone who you've liked a while gets his moment out there. So if Jack Nicholson wins for Chinatown, then maybe say he doesn't win the next year for Cuckoo's Nest. He might have. It might have just been a double up. But if he doesn't win for Cuckoo's Nest the next year, then Pacino can win for Dog Day Afternoon, which is the same year in 75. And then if Puccalian... Pachino wins for Darday Afternoon, you get to 1992. He doesn't need his makeup Oscar and Denzel Washington can win from Malcolm X. Wow. I fixed it. Hold on.

We're not done yet. So I have this exact same idea. He does. But you guys are going, you're doing Nicholson over Pacino. So here's what I did. Okay. All right. I did 1973 and 1974.

I didn't take an Oscar away from Art Carney. I took an Oscar who only had one. I took an Oscar away from Jack Lemon, who already had one. Jack Lemon won in 73 for Save the Tiger. If you take that away and give it to Jack Nicholson for the last detail, arguably, as best performance, then you don't need Nicholson to win in 75 and you get to do a Katie delineated, which is you give to Pacino for Dog Day afternoon. Then you don't have to wait until 1992. In 1992, you give Malcolm X. Denzel's win there, which is one of the great Oscar snubs of all time.

Then that means that you don't have to give Denzel in 2001 the Training Day Oscar, which is a fine Oscar, but is a real makeup. Then that means that Will Smith can win that year for Ali, which then means Will. Smith does not have to win for King Richard, which means the slap never happens. Wow. But who cares if the slap happens? Yeah, I don't care. It's just a great one-in. He could have died.

He could have killed him. You don't have been no pressure that night for Will Smith. What do you even? I'd like to litigate all of this just in the sense of I'm... It doesn't count. These are fun what-ifs, but like... It's also an interesting idea that once you win one, you're off the board. You're off the board.

Which is not true. I'm giving Pacino the Oscar for Godfather, too. every single time. He's amazing. Well, you're not in this draft because he just stopped 1974. If I'm changing 1974, I think if I have to pick a single greatest screen performance ever, like it might be Pacino and Godfather too, that is incredible. So, but I mean, you know, Nicholson's in.

But I don't know if he's just through by the same way. He's really good in that too. But anyway, there, I'm deleting it. Delete. I do. This to me was the most fun of this draft. I was thinking through that. We went the same direction. That one and really becomes a problem.

in a lot of these. He gets nominated a lot. He keeps not winning. They keep feeling like that. And Paul Newman has the same thing. We might get to some of that. It's some of those guys. Great pick.

We've broken out of the 90s and 2000s. Thank you, Katie. Okay. That means it's me. Yep. Shit, I don't know what I'm doing. You have to take a look. Hmm.

Where do I want to go? This is always really fun when you chastise everybody else for not being ready and be like, you have to vamp. I haven't done that once. And then you just, you're searching. These are four of the most gifted podcasters on earth and you're sitting here quietly while I say, yes. Into a microphone.

Would have why? Talk amongst yourselves. I'm thinking about years. You're doing a self vamp, which is a lean podcast. Yeah, there you go. You've gotten distracted by something she did. You're vamping while you're also thinking. Yeah.

Are you guys thinking years about like what you can grab before somebody else does? Yes. Yeah. I mean, that's how I've organized all of it. Like, I only have one pick per year. Wow. I did a spreadsheet. You have to make the hard choices first.

It's true. You just spread sheet. Left hand is all the years and then right hand is the category. So I can see across the year what are the options that I want for that year. Okay. I've got one. I'm not sure it's going to help me. But it's only Lillian Gish. So to be clear, 76 and 2007 are still on the board.

Yes, they are. Okay. And 99. It'll still be on the board after I make my pick, which is going to be for Best Picture Snubs singing in the rain from 1952. I thought it was going to be there. I think a case for the worst Academy Award Best Picture Win of all time behind Crash is maybe the greatest show on Earth. No offense, Steven Spielberg, who loves that film and featured it prominently at the beginning of the family. Real tough feat for Jimmy Stewart.

This is actually a pretty interesting collection of Best Picture nominees that years. This is when Cecil ran shit. Truly is. High noon, Ivanhoe, Moulon Rouge, John Houston's Moulon Rouge, and The Quiet Man, the other nominees that year. Singing in the rain should be the winner, in my opinion. Yes, totally. And I would just take the greatest show on Earth out completely,

which is a movie that I think is fun, and I understand it's spectacle, and I understand why six-year-old Steven Spielberg would have his life changed forever by it. But for me, it's kind of boring. Singing in the Rain was obviously top of my best picture nominee Snublist, one of my favorite movies. But I will say, because it's perceived,

I think, like retroactive history, that singing in the rain wasn't really even in the mix because an American in Paris had won several years before. You know, another Stanley Donnan, Gene Kelly musical, Fantasia. I think that an American in Paris gets a bad rap. That's all I have to say. It's okay.

It's amazing. We watched it again recently. Like, oh, I'm sorry. Like, you're against the Gershwin's all of a sudden? No, it's good. It's fine. When Gene's, like, setting up his studio and doing his ballet with the neat. It's very special stuff.

It's got an incredible dance set piece. Yeah. But I don't know that it's a movie. I'm so. It's beautiful. Excited for when Knox transitions. fully into like full-blown Star Wars and you're in here next to your

with your eyes bugging out of your head being like, the thing is about Rogue One that nobody understands is that Illinois only shot the interiors. That's the journey I've been on as a parent, Amanda, I'll help you out, I'll give you some notes. I just need you to come over and find all the other pieces of the Mandalorian's ship.

Also, what is his name? Can anyone tell? Din Jarn. What? Okay, just listen to me. Din Jarn. Dind Jarn. DIN? Is it a silent J?

Yeah. D-I-N-J-J. So I just want of my silent. So it's a silent D-J-A-R-E. What's the D-N? Sort of, um, sociological backstory there,

like the silent D. You got an hour and a half to like because it's going to take a minute. You want to, we're doing this draft and you want to talk about who's picked in charge. I kind of do, because as I told Chris last night,

yeah. Replaced by bedtime stories has been the Star Wars and the Cyclopedia with Alice where she's just like, please just read me these entrance. trees, but I have been pronouncing the hard D. D. Jarn. She's for it.

Dyn Jarin. Yeah. This is like when my husband told my son that the ballet move tondeu is pronounced tendis, which is just no. That's not. Yeah. It's the same. We've been arguing about ATATs versus at-ats in my house. I don't know if anyone wants to do 10 minutes on that.

Oh, I screw that up to this day. What is it? What is the answer? I think it's, I thought it was at-ats, but apparently it's AT-A-T-A-T. Okay. All right. My nine-year-old is right. It's so much cooler to call it.

I know. Yeah, but like what? God has bullshit. What are the footnotes? Show me the work. I'll send you some of the journalist. So you had which one? I picked singing in the rain for Best Picture nominee snubb 20th century.

1952. Okay. That means is it C.R.'s turn. It's my turn. It's going to stay in that same category of Best Picture Snub. I did not pick that before. And I am going to take a 2001 of Space Audit. in 1969.

Oliver was the winner. The other nominees were Funny Girl, Lion and Winter, Rachel, Rachel, and Romeo and Juliet. Wait, 68, right? 68, right? 68, sorry, 69 Oscars. 68 movie year. Oliver won 2001 Space Odyssey

actually predicts how this world is going to end, which will happen in about nine weeks. It is probably never been topped as a piece of science fiction. They showed it in temples. It changed filmmaking forever. Kubrick criminally overlooked. overlooked by the academy. I had this in director.

I did as well. I just deleted it as a director option. But bull. I had it for bull. I don't say anything rude about the lion and winter. I wasn't going to. I was going to say of all the nominees,

the only one I still have time for is lion in winter. As if it matters how a man should die. Or fall. Yeah. When the fall is all that's left. Is that a mandarin? Have you seen Rachel?

Rachel? No. Paul Newman's directorial debut. I didn't see it. It's a good movie. Is it as good as 2001 of Space Odyssey? No, it's not. But, I don't know, make some time for it.

I want a clip of that. That's something to think about. That's what the Oscars should be about. Hey, make some time for this. Let's celebrate the fact that this guy saw way into the future. Wait, what did you, did you take Oliver out? What are you taking Oliver? I was raised by Oliver.

That's tough. That's Oliver's bad. Come on. I'm like the number one Carol Reed fan in the universe. That's not a good movie. I don't think. That's a great movie. Okay.

So now it's Amanda's time. Yes. Okay. We already talked about it. I just got to go to 92 and in Best Actor Winner Snub. I do need to take Denzel Washington from Malcolm X, which I think is one of the other great insanities. And if I'm doing my list of the greatest screen performances ever, it's probably it's Pacino not an assentive woman, which he wins for that year. But in Godfather, too.

And then this movie was incredible. I don't even think I need to take away the training day Oscar. I mean, Denzel can have as many as he wants. He wouldn't have won it, though. I don't think. Yeah, that's fine. Like, you can do whatever you want. This is a very pure, like, this is an amazing film and an incredible performance.

And, like, do not the announcement, because he's obviously already won an Oscar, but, like, you watch Denzel in Malcolm X and you're like, that's one of our all timers. Like, this is, this is a forever actor. and you just want an Oscar to go for that announcement. So, you know, like, take it from Pacino. Like, if we've already done Katie's work and he already has an Oscar. Yeah, we fixed the 70s. Oh, we're allowed to do that, Matt. Yeah.

So then we can take it from Pacino. We're creating an alternate universe. I think it's very similar to what you were describing about an American in Paris, where it was like he had just won for glory. And even though it was a Titanic performance, Pacino had zero Oscars. And they just like, they were doing math on the table. They were like, so we're going to let this go and not give whatever 55-year-old Al Pacino an Academy Award and give 32-year-old Denzel Washington the second Academy Award.

It does happen sometimes. It could happen this year, right? I mean, the reverse of it could happen this year if they give it to Chalame. If they give it to Chalemay, it would be like giving Denzel the Oscar that he deserved. But those are two pretty critical. Can I ask just a general question is, did you find yourself with the actor snubs picking more often, because we were allowed to pick nominated performances or even unnominated performances. Would you say you were largely drawing from nominated or unnominated?

I have one unnominated here, and the rest are just miscarriages of justice for my favorite actors. It's hard to remember unnominated. Like that research is tricky to go back and remember who is in the mix. I had one actor when I was really passionate about it, maybe should have picked, but I'll get to that at the end. Okay. Joanna. Okay, great stuff for me. You get too. I do get too. So I would like, I don't know if you've ever heard of this director, but his name is Alfred Hitchcock.

I think that's how you pronounce it. He doesn't have an Oscar for directing. He doesn't. And I would like to give him one, and I'm going to do it for what does the most damage. I can't be how you think it's I'm kidding I'm kidding I'm kidding I'm kidding

I'm kidding You can't just like give it to Yeah Lifeboat Because it's Why not I just I can pick Rear Window

I could pick Rebecca I could pick Spelldown Or I could pick Something he wasn't nominated Yeah I could But I Those were the ones that I

wrote down Um so Not vertigo Not for me But Too woke To San Francisco Really bad

And portrayal is everything. Or is it? 1958, there's another director that I was thinking of putting in 1958. Interesting. But I don't have to. So I am going to do, this is tough for me. Do you guys want to vamp? Now I'm looking at 1958.

You've listed one that I don't even, there's one more that you haven't even listed. Though I don't actually. Oh, interesting. I don't need. Yeah. I don't know. I think his two greatest achievements are Rebecca. North by Northwest.

They're not my favorite films of his, but in terms of what he is going for in those movies, I think he absolutely nails. And that, you know, I'm not trying to be swayed by you, but 1940 does do the most damage. It does. It's a good one. So I take 1940 off the board.

And Rebecca wins best picture, so it kind of makes sense for them to match. I agree. So who won director that year, actually? John Ford for the Grapes of Raff. Not bad. Yeah, good win. He's made some movies.

I'm not here of them. Yeah, yeah. But I feel okay with this. Rechcock Rebecca over John Ford Grapes of Wrath. Yes. Wow. There are other John Ford movies I would have a harder time making a case against. Okay.

You too. You know. Interesting pick. That's tough. I'm deleting his Girl Friday. Yeah. Yeah. It's okay.

Greg Tolland lost his mind. Your strategy worked. Or is it Gregtsohn? He did. He did, what did I just watch that came out that same year? It was Greg Tolan. Greg Tolland did, I think, three movies in 1940? Yeah.

Shoot. I'm going to look up. Please gamble. Hang on, I'm on his Wikipedia page. I mean, 1940, it was fairly stacked. It was a good year. Yeah. And it's still also when there are 10 nominees, right?

Yeah. When did they switch from 10 to 5 the first time? Oh, God. So many Wikipedia tabs are open. I know. Oh, you know what it was? I actually just, I watched the 1939 Wethering Heights. Let's just talk Greg Till in one second.

Okay. Sure. The cinematographer. I actually love that weathering heights, even though it only adapts, half the book. Well, just like Emerald Fennell. What happens in the other half? Torture.

It's a lot more intense stuff that shifts away from. You're like Heathliff. Ugh. Yeah. So Greg Tolan from 1939 to 1941 goes intermezzo, weathering heights, raffles, they shall have music, the grapes of wrath, the long voyage home, the westerner, the outlaw, citizen cane, the little fox's ball of fire. That's 11 movies in three years, four of which were Best Picture Not.

nominees and among the most important movies of all time. Just putting that out there. That was good. Including the little foxes. But I love that movie. That's a great movie. It's a great movie. He got Oscars. Well, it's a play, but it's great movie.

Okay. So you have one more pick. Yeah. Damn, Hitchcock. Zagged. Greg Tullin one for Weathering Heights. Entirely is off the board. Hitchcock's done.

If you haven't seen that Wuthering Heights, I recommend it. As a director and then also all his films are off the board. We're all over on. No. I think you can still pick like North by Northwest to Wendbis for sure. Correct. The movies are available, but he's, but he is not available.

I have the opportunity to do the most ringer thing possible, but I don't really want to do that because it's not the... Okay, so here's... I actually have a qualifying question. You also have a black screen background. For my eyes. We weren't corrective lenses. I know.

Good for you guys. We're doing our best out here. The year 2000. Can I pick... Yeah, exactly. Can I pick in the mood for love? Yes, you should. There was some question about eligibility that year.

I don't know. And I think we should look that up. Okay. That was my one question. I have always started by the 2000 movie. Is there a... We ran into this on the 2000 movie draft movie. It was released in the United States in 2001, and that's historically what we use for drafts.

We typically go by the U.S. release date. Now, did it play... It played Cannes 2000, which I think would have made it eligible for the Academy Awards in 2000. If it had been submitted an international feature. Yes. Right. Was it submitted or was it? It was not chosen.

Got it. It was submitted but not nominated. Sorry, I should say. Oh. So in that case, I say yes. I say it's the 2000 film. It would have been like a city of God situation which got submitted in international and then gets nominated like the next year. Did it get submitted in the original year of its release? I think so. I know there's something wonky going out with that one. But also, 2001 is still on the board.

I think this is flexing it a little bit, but I don't, I don't mind. Can I take? We're massaging it slightly, but if we want to have it in the spirit of generosity. 2000. All right. I'm taking in the mood for. for love for best picture nomination snub 21st century. We said 2000 was 21st century. We did. Last night my text to you. Yes. Yes. We agreed to. Has everyone agreed to that?

Sure. Okay. Intriguing. You've been, you're zagging all over the place. I'm trying to spread. I appreciate it. Okay. That's nice. No chalk for you. All right, Amanda. You've got another pick. I do. And I'm trying to figure out what I want to do here. This is what I wanted to do here. This is it. This is what it's all about. I mean, you know. Are you, is this revenge for the fantasy football draft that you absolutely lost your marvels over? Do you think you'll ever be able to draft again in a draft

where you are not the commish? It's, it's, it's, it's true. I did do that, and I enjoyed it and won again, of course. Slightly more impressionistic, though, yeah. I think of Mallory. I, the problem with that draft was that the rules were not just poor, but poorly communicated. That's not something I'm interested in.

What I want is I want it all on the table. I want us all to be able to communicate. Look each other in the eye and say, I agree. Yeah. You know? And that didn't happen last time. You were there. No, you weren't there.

I wasn't there. I was the only one in this table. You did almost away. Almost. I know. So can you, hold on. You, he did Goodfellas. Yes.

In picture winner snub. Yes. Yes. But I, but did Scorsese get an Oscar for the, he wasn't. So he's still available. Yes. Yes. Indirect or winner snub.

Right. Yes. But not for Goodfellas. But not for Goodfellas. Correct. But this is like Hitchcock. You got to choose your Scrazi-Snub. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But not for good fellas. But then he like did get one. So I'm kind of like, do I want to, yeah. But do you want to get him one earlier so it doesn't have to be the departed? No, that's true. But like, I don't know if I feel that strongly. That's why I got really into the what-ifs.

Because I'm like, if you're going to take it away from somebody who eventually gets one, there's got to be at least a domino effect that is appealing. Right. And I don't really, I don't have that. So instead, I, hold on. I think I'm going to just, I'm going to do my passions. This is what I'm going to do. And I think in 2014, in Best Director, I will take Wes Anderson for Grand Pood Pest Hotel. Nice. Good one. Fuck. Sorry. Sorry to Ray Fines. Sorry. I mean, it is my refund. Yeah. Sorry. Well, I had Reifines in a bigger splash, but, you know, someone went crazy. Also, also my Jake Dillan Hole Nightcaller Justice.

So, um, I mean, Wes Anderson has a short film Oscar now? He does. He does. Like, okay. Whatever. He's one of, wait. Oh, yeah, that's right. And Fox wasn't animated. That wasn't like, one.

It didn't win. Okay. Yeah. That's a great film. We even watched that in my house. But one of our signature, this signature film, makers of our generation doesn't have an Oscar. Yet. Yet.

Well, I also don't think he's making his best stuff right now. I think the interest is kind of waning in his stuff a little bit too. Which is sad, even though I think Asteroid City is just like gobsmacking. But I think, you know, Grand Pouetest was, is one of my favorites of his films, was like a huge box office success. It was the coronation moment that kind of just passed by him. And we thought it was going to lead to more and instead of that was it. Yeah.

Right. That was a peak, yeah. So this year was the Oscars of, yeah, I'm also taking it away from Me and a Ritu for Birdman. So that's fine with me. He wins another one literally the next year. Yeah, the thing, I had Leo winning for Wolf of Wall Street here. And then that sets off another little chain reaction where Damon can then win for the Martian. Was it Wolf of Wall Street's 2013?

That's still on the board. Is it 13? Mm-hmm. Yeah. I take it back. I take it back. Holds your fire. I take it back. Okay.

So, Chris, you're up. Okay. Um Follow a question about wildcard But the year off the board Still counts for wildcard I'm sorry Jake Jelen Hall I really did try to give you

All the same rules apply So let's just make sure I know what I got here so far I have 2001 In Best Picture Snub 20th I do not have a 21st I have Best Picture winner I took Goodfellas

Pretty good All right Yeah Good board gone God darn it I think what I'm going to do is actress

Believe in yourself I'm nervous Good Winner snub We haven't done one here Oh no This will be the first time You talk about a woman on this podcast

This is super exciting I'll take Betty Davis For all about Eve Wow Yeah Okay One of the all-time tough Best Actors calls

That's good Judy Holiday won for born yesterday He's great Good win He's great Boris Swanson Right there for Sunset below Yeah

Top one I just Betty Davis and all about Eve is one of my five favorite performances ever probably. Oh, well, I'm knowing that. Let's put it in build terms.

Top nine performances from the 50s. Very CR coding. So yeah, I'll do that. I don't, I did not, I admit, I did not do Betty Davis Oscar research, so I don't know if this changes the trajectory of her awards cabinet,

her mantle piece. That would have been a, she had already won off the end. She had already won twice, I think, by this point. Well, you know what? Three's a charm. Yeah. She deserves it.

So that's, I'll do Betty Davis. I think it would have be reasonable for her to be in the class of like Catherine Hepburn and Francis McDormand of the three-time winners. So that's an interesting pick, Chris. Thanks, Sean. I had Gloria Swanson on mine, but it's a tough call. She was nominated two, four, six, eight, ten, eleven times. Every time in Best Actress, never in supporting. That's how you do it.

That's starting. That was a tough in, because in Best Actor and Best Actress, we're talking lead performance. right? We're not doing supporting. That was a tough. Supporting you go into wild. Yeah, because there were just like a few. I had one in actor that I'm like, I'm not sure. Well, there's just like a few actors who don't have Oscars where they're all supporting guys and gals and it was tough. Sorry, what year was?

1950. Thank you. I'm loving this. We're going all the way back. Yeah. This is really good. I am going to go back to the 21st century, though. And I'm going to get into Best Picture nominee snub 21st century.

I've got a lot of options here Okay Yeah Are you gonna go Challenges Are you gonna go for the crowd Are you gonna go with your heart Are you gonna be interesting

Are you gonna be Normie Just picture on with four I went super normie With both back over crash Right that was like It had to be done And there are a few more super normie

I think snubs I'm not doing that I'm going 2012 Which is one of the worst collections of Oscar nominees ever in this category, in my opinion. And I'm going, put the girl with the dragon tattoo in. Whoa.

Yeah. You can take out any one of the following. The artist extremely loud and incredibly close. Well, that's 11. Hang on. You're 2011. Sorry, 11. You're 2011.

Sorry, 2011. I had an even better option for 2011 here. Was it Michael Fassbender in shame? No, it was obviously melancholy. But whatever. I love 2012. I was so mad at you. No, 2011 sucks.

You're right. Yeah. this is the whole slate of that year. The artist, which won, the descendants, extremely loud and incredibly close. The help Hugo, midnight in Paris,

Moneyball, the Tree of Life and War Horse. Yeah, really bad. It was really tough. Maybe three and a half good nominees there. I mean, that's crazy. Money Ball and Warhorse.

Yeah, I like Hugo. Dinger. The virus is such a CRR. We have to call my dad. My dad has been angry about Warhorse for a decade. The girl with the dragon tattoo

more and more we're learning every day. masterpiece. We're seeing increasingly. We're getting closer to Stanley and closer to Fincher. And that's what we have to acknowledge. Also a film that I think really saw the future in terms of how people are treated and how the internet is used. Honestly, quite

insightful. I was telling Sean, did you guys know eyes wide shuts in the top 30 of Apple movies right now? Cool. Wonder why. I shared this with Chris and Bill and I'm just going to share it on the show because Chris sent that to us last night. And I did Brian Windhorst Fingers. Yes. At 8.4. 49 p.m.

So at 804 a.m. I received a text message from my 20-year-old nephew who said, Hey, Uncle Sean, it's Gavin. I just watched Eyes Wide Shut, and I was wondering what your opinion on the movie was, and I was a little confused on the main message as well. This is so sweet. First of all, Gavin, my dude, I love Gavin.

I told Gavin, I was like, look, buddy, I'll just call you this weekend. We'll talk about it. We're not going to text out this. What are some of the Eyes Wide Shut Docks we could find on YouTube? Oh, yeah. There's funny out there. Podcast hours he's got. Okay, so that's my pick, which means Katie, you've got two picks.

Okay. So I had a picture nom with you the right thing, but I haven't done a win yet because that's a separate thing. And I do feel a little crazy that we have not yet talked about. What I think is one of the all-time famous that didn't even win Best Picture movie. I'm going with 1941 and Citizen Kane. Yes. You've heard of that one. Yeah.

Yeah. I screwed up. No, I'm now deleting the Lady Eve. So that's sad. I also had the Lady Eve. Yeah, not even nominated. What are we doing? Barter Stanwick.

Yeah, if I couldn't get Hitchcock, I was going to go for Wells. Yeah, I also had Wells an actor if I hadn't gone that way because he loses to Gary Cooper, who then wins later and then you could fix some history there. But it's not the acting. Like, says in Kain is Orson-Wills and his vision and the Wunderkind and Greg Tolland, our man, back again, didn't even win for it. Crazy. Crazy.

And it was nominated and lost to How Green Was My Valley, which is a movie I haven't seen. It's very sweet. This is what I always hear. It's very earnest. And a lot of times, you know, yeah. you'll go back and watch those movies from the 40s and you're like, oh, I thought this is going to be boring and it's great. I'm sure it's right there, but I think we can all agree that putting Citizen Kane in there

is the right thing that should have happened. I really agree. Yeah. Okay. So we got the 40, we got 41, and now I'm going to zag way back up and go into Best Actress in 2004. And I think that if we had just given Kate Winslet her Oscar for Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind,

instead of Hillary swings. Is that 2003? Do I have it wrong? No. You did it again. I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're twinning.

I have 04. O'4, yeah. Oternals, oh, it is? Yeah, okay. No, I think you got in my head about the history fixing things. So, I mean, I think. I have this exact. I'm curious how far you take this one.

I didn't probably not as far as you. But even without even doing that, give Kate Winslet. I'm obsessive where this ends. I cannot wait here where this goes. But, like, even if you're not fixing history, that is a great performance. That is a movie that is incredibly meaningful to me and probably everyone within 10 years of my age range. And she was so. Oh, okay.

It's her worst take. And Kiersten Dunst is in it, so you have to know I really mean it. Okay. Anyway, let's fight about it. This also means that I can't do my cute best picture nominee snub, which was Mean Girls in 2004, which should have been nominated. The Academy doesn't recognize comedy. Never would have happened. 2004 another year.

It doesn't matter. It's not the exercise of the game. We did. We talked about the spirit of like what could have happened. Well, maybe we should in addition to, you know, adjudicating wins. it should be that the Oscars, you know, Oscars recognize comedy as well. Well, that can be your draft that you do on your podcast. I mean, some comedy should make their way into this.

It's fine. I'm sorry that you and Charlie Kaufman. There is some comedy in Eternal Sunshine. There's funniness in there, including Kate Winslet. It's one of her great performances she had already given so many at this point. She was kind of obviously overdue. She then, of course, wins a couple years later for the reader. It would be we all love and revere and watch constantly.

So if you give it to her that year, Hillary Swank doesn't get her second Oscar for a million-dollar baby. I think we can all live with. it. The way I went with it is then, and I don't know that this really would have happened, is that then Anne Hathaway can win for Rachel getting married in 08. And then after that, she doesn't have to win supporting actress in 2012, then Amy Adams can win for the master. And what's next after that? That is a great outcome. I had a slightly different trajectory. So to me, I agree. I think Kate Wins that should have won that year. I love that movie. That clears the way for Merrill's third Oscar for Doubt, which I think is a better performance

than the Iron Lady and a better movie than the Iron Lady, which means that clears the way for Glenn Close to finally be free and to have an Oscar for Albert Knobb. Albert Knob's is written on this document. You want Albert Nogh. You want her to win for Albert Noss. I just want Glenn Close to be okay. She's winning for Knob's. She's in running for Merviland now. She's doing great. And meanwhile, I think she is pained by the fact that she does not have an accommodation. Albert Nob's also a comedy in its own right though. So, you know, I mean, no, I feel like it wasn't terrible. I don't remember that much about Albert Nubes.

I would say. Katie, we're vibing. I know. I know. I know. Yeah. I really. Speaking of my language.

That's really funny. Okay. Now we're back to, are we back to me? We're back to you. Yes. Hmm. I kind of want to do another one of those.

Okay. A similarly minded one of those. Maybe you could have been preparing for that instead of, you know. I am prepared. All right. In fact, I'm ready to do it right now. Is 1973 still on the board? I think it is.

Right? Yes, it is. Seventy's around the board? 74. 74's off. Yeah. This is a bit of a rewriting history pick. Glenda Jackson won in 1973 for Best Actress for a Touch of Class.

Show of hands. How many people here have seen a touch of class? Yeah, me and Joe. This was her second win in four years. And Glenda Jackson is a rare best actress two-time winner who I would say most people born after 1980 are not familiar with them couldn't pick out of the crowd. and she does not have the same legacy as so many of our great actors and actresses. So here's what I'm going to do.

I'm going to take that second one away from Glenn. I'm going to give it to Ellen Burson for The Exorcist, which is an incredible performance. Now, Ellen Burson does win the following year for Alice doesn't live here anymore. Also a very good performance. Amazing performance. But then you get to do something similar

that Katie did earlier, which is give the next Oscar to Faye Dunaway for Chinatown in 1974 as Evelyn Mulray, which then means Faye Dunaway doesn't have to win and we can have Sissy SpaceEwin for Carrie in 1976, which means Sissy Spacex doesn't have to win for coal miner's daughter, which means we can give Mary Tyler Moore her Oscar for ordinary people. I like it.

And then Mary Tyler Moore doesn't have to not have an Oscar. But let me ask you this. But Sisi SpaceX should have an Oscar. She has one for Carrie. Yeah, though I still like the Fade Downaway Network performance more than Chinatown. Oh, I like Chinatown more than Network. Okay. But it's just different strokes.

There you go. Flo on the Iris, you know. How do you feel? Is that a Captain America Civil War reference? No, it's in China Town. Oh, China Town. She's kind of flound on the iris. That's so embarrassing for me.

How do you feel about the idea that, like, you win one, now you're off the board? Like, would you want to live in a world? You really seem to be gatekeeping these. It's really how it works. I mean, it's really how voters think. It's not how it works. It's not how it works, but I think it should be how it works. I don't.

You think there should be a rule. I disagree. I'm giving, I'm going to try to give more Oscars. No, I just don't care about. Not in this fraud. I don't care about. Term, you know, in this case, not in this draft. It's not in this draft.

I just meet in life. I feel like there are too many actors who need an Oscar who don't have an Oscar. And then I do like that Catherine Hepburn has a whole cabinet full. But if she wanted to give a couple away to people who never got them, then I think that that would be a better world. Redist is what you're advocating for. I'm a socialist. I think when there's when there's a lot of bunched wins, most of the time people are kind of punished. I actually think we've been talking about the Leo and Timmy thing this year.

And I think even still there's a little bit of like, he doesn't have to win quite yet again. And I think it doesn't always happen because the Glenda Jackson close wins did happen. Emma Stone. Because I would say with the exception of the Patriots, you admire dominance in sports. That's true. I like a dynasty. And so it's like taking Daniel DeLuess off the board at my left foot or whatever.

You're just going to let Lincoln sit there and go unacknowledged? I'll tell you what. You're Lincoln thing? I reserve the right to choose whatever I want. In some cases, I'm like, just give DDL every Oscar. I think the historical game of like, if they win, then this happens. Because I think that this is an interesting thing. I won't give away what I think might be my pick.

But yeah. I thought it would be interesting to take ordinary people, bring it into the conversation a little bit too, because it's an interesting. Yes. Somebody may want to talk about it later on. But to me, that movie is very, very good. And I really like it.

We did a rewatchables on it. I think it's very accomplished. I think Mary Tyler Moore is maybe the best thing in it. She is. And I really, that's like one of those wins that I always thought should have happened. Even though Sissy's Space like is wonderful and coal miners order, sometimes there's just two deserving winners. And somebody has to choose. And this would be a way to kind of alleviate that.

Can we look at the supporting category in that year? Because couldn't you make the argument for Mary Tyler Moore in supporting? You could. In ordinary people. I mean, and it is like, it is one of those supporting performances that the entire movie hinges on. I think Tim Hutton won for supporting that year, but he's really the lead in the movie. Now you're taking away Mary Steenbergen's Oscar for Melvin and Howard. I mean, I do like Mary Steenbergin.

We do. Melvin and Howard is one of those like doesn't exist. I mean, I've seen it, but like a movie that doesn't feel like it exists. Anyway, that's how I personally would fix it because I don't care about category fraud. I own it, of course. I believe in the sanctity of American elections and not Oscar. I just, I do think that's clear. Straight to camera.

I want to be clear about the stakes at play. I think it's okay to not care. You don't think we've had enough elections. Just stop. Speaking of, you have to elect your next pick. Well, okay, so I'm going to pick a best actor winner snub, and I'm undecided at the moment while I vamp between going into an area that I've already drafted. I'm just going to do, actually.

Follow your heart. Okay. Follow your heart. 1998 stole on the board? I think so. Yes, it is. Jeff Bridges is the dude in Big Lobowski. Oh, I like this.

Really good. Really good. This is cool. The Academy does not understand the Coens for the majority of their peak, their prime. They can finally get one for no country. But their inability to understand

the Coens and they're like rewarding Roberto Benini for an irreverent comic performance, tragic comic performance. While like, Bridges. Dumbum. Yeah.

While Bridges just like languishes in being one of the most iconic characters in my lifetime. him with the dude is a travesty, is a snub of all snubs. I like that pick. Does he then not win for Crazy Heart? If we exist in the one and done world, yes, and I'd be fine with that. I think Crazy Heart is. Do we feel Jeff Bridges rises to the level of deserves two?

I would say maybe yes. I don't know the Crazy Heart gets its engine. I agree. I think maybe Clooney wins that air, which wouldn't have been? That was Siriana? Up in the air. Up in the air. Yeah.

Wins for Syriana. You're probably right. Yeah. Clooney already won for Siriana by that? He won supporting actor for Siririana, right? Yeah. Before that. Yeah.

That's like 05, 04. Are you, in your new history where people come off the board after winning once, can they win for a different category? Yeah. I mean, I want to control space and time, obviously. So this is a new history that we are writing here. Call me Howard Zinn. Yeah. So I had this as well, but I just had, let's just let Tom Hanks have three.

So that kind of goes to your dynasty point. Because then it could have been Tom Hanks and Saving Private Ryan that year. And that would have been... Philadelphia. It's so terrible. It's the beginning of the awfulness of the Y C. Carrickness. Yeah, okay.

Also, RIP to Jim Carrey and Truman Show, who I had on my 98. That would have been a good one, too. That's a good one. That's a good one. Yeah. Okay. Is it me? It's my turn?

Okay, great. I'm going to do the obvious thing because it's still here. And this is me fixing my, this is me fixing history the way that I want to. In 2008, in Best Picture nominee snub, I will take the Dark Night. And then we just fix it. Okay? Like, and then I just don't have to hear about it anymore. Batman Mommy rises.

Please, please, please stop believing that Interstellar is so good. Okay? Like, please. I don't think a best picture win would have alleviated that. I know, but like maybe then I don't have to hear about the third active Oppenheimer so much. Like, I just, we, like, stop the madness. Stop it.

You think this is enough to stop. Christopher Nolan? Are you now becoming old hymn? Anti-Nolan. I like Inception. Yeah. I love Tenet. It's cool.

I like it. We love Tenet. We hated her cell. And I really thought that he was very charming at the DGA's when I went. Also, he walked out to Kashmir. He did. It was very funny. And he said, oh, that was a little dramatic.

He was a little confused by it. But I just, like, the snub of the Dark Night in 2008 created, like, mass hysteria. Among Nolan fans and among Oscar, like, voters and how we put the Oscars today. Have you guys talked about whether you'd go back, pre Dark Night, five? Just. There's a smaller field for best picture. Like right now

should we go back to five? We have talked about it in the past on like there are some years where it feels more appropriate. I always thought the variable year was a little bit more fun

where you could have gotten eight or nine because that indicated like a real strength. That being said, I also kind of like when a movie like F1 kind of sneaks in at the end too.

Yeah. So we almost all would have nine this year if that had been an option and had no one. It would have been nine. It would have been nine. It would have been nine.

You know, like I like that we make room for blockbusters. I just, you're making room for one right here. It just comes with such psychosis that like if we could just... So you feel like if we go back and we give Dark Knight Best Director or Best Picture, he said?

Best Picture nominee. Nomination. Let me ask you a question related to this. Sure. Yeah. Do you think if this happens that the way in which comic book films are made and the kinds of comic book movies we get are any different if Dark Night is nominated for Best Picture? I do.

Not that it would have saved us from the sort of like, explosion of comic movies, but I think the sort of like, let's take this more seriously would have happened even earlier than it did. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah, that's sort of what I'm thinking is like, do you get, you know, a Black Panther earlier, you know, because you're like, that's exactly what I was thinking. You know. Yeah. I think you do.

But the Dark name made so much money, which is the real incentive for all this, right? It is, but it isn't because they also want, you know, Marvel at a certain point starts chasing they want that enshrine with all. It takes them too long to chase Oscars and it wouldn't have his long. Yeah, I just saw Kevin Faggy last week talked about how happy he was that Cinners was being recognized so much.

Obviously, he's got some skin in the game with having worked with Coogler for years. But also he was like, it doesn't always happen that the Academy recognizes what real moviegoers really enjoy. And I was like, all right, buddy, you know, I said a guy. I'm sorry that, you know, loving Funder didn't get into Best Picture that year. I will also say, the first hour and a half of the Dark Night, unlike anything I've ever seen. Absolutely rips. Incredible stuff. You didn't like it when it started focusing on Maggie Jellon Hall.

Yeah, that's right. Rachel Dawes. Rachel Dawes, baby. She's the assistant dear. Recast from Katie. Yeah, you were like, I miss Katie. Yeah, exactly. Where's Katie's a ring of emotion here?

If you could, if you could fuck Rachel Dawes or fuck the Joker, who would you fuck? Because that's sort of what bad man has to do, right? Honestly. Honestly, the Joker. Yeah, that sounds like. The Joker, I would do it for the story. But he's Joker. Not Joaquin's Joker.

Is it all right? And Joachian's Joker also on the table? He's Joker. Barry Keene's Joker. Very Keene's Joker. There it is. That's just getting erased. We're not doing Joker in Matt Reeves' movies.

I don't know. Are we doing Matt Reeves' movies? What? He called me. As we finished the script, he was giving me updates. Very Keog is, the Patinson one? Is that? Yeah.

That movie came out like, 8. years ago. Yes. And was amazing. And now he's Ringo. Yeah. He's pretty busy. Nice work.

You have a pet. Fuck. Do I? I just picked. I thought it was. I think we picked that of order. Joanna has two back to back right now. Thank you.

That's what it is. And then me again. Oh, we're going back back. Yeah. All right. All right. All right. This is really tough.

You know, sometimes you have to take an Oscar away from someone you do think deserves it. And I just frantically skipped around trying to find another place to give it to him. But I can't. So I'm so sorry to late Great William Hurt. You no longer have an Oscar. I'm giving it to Harrison Ford and witness. Yes.

This was... This was... It was one of them. Good one. And I was trying... Kissed the Spider Woman? Is that what a spider woman? Which is not what he should win for, but I couldn't find a win...

Like, you're taking one from John Connery or taking one... I could not... This is where... There were, like, so many corners where I was like, ah, that's Paul Newman's. Oh, that's John Connery. So William Hurd, you get no Oscar, but Harrison Ford has one for witness, which he deserves. He does. I did take one of...

Something I was leaning towards, which was Sydney Pollock winning for Out of Africa over Akira-Kurosawa for Ron. on. Yeah. There's a lot of that was the game back then. Yeah,

that's how you did it. I mean, 85 was a target rich year also in this. That's the weirdest year ever because out of Africa dominates but Merrill strength doesn't win.

Yeah. Because she had just won two pretty close together. Doesn't stop them before. That's true. Okay. Another for Joe. One more for Joanna.

I knew I could wait because this is a weirdly anti-arrival podcast, but no, it's not. Excuse me, you're not up to date. That's fine. You did not listen to all of the big picture episodes. I listened to a lot of them.

Are you trying to silence a woman on this question? It was very loud. You were here. When Rob and I were here, we were doing the whole Amy Adams' filmography and Sean was just like, Arrival. What a piece of trash. I did not say that. How dare you.

It's beautiful. I like it. It's good. Amy Adams deserves an Oscar as we all, I think, at this table. No, that's not who I would have picked, though. But I also don't agree, but that's okay. You're going Amy Adams in actress? But I really like a rival.

give Jeremy Redder and ask her for the arrival? Who would you have picked? I probably Villeneuve. Okay, okay. All right, fair enough. So you're taking 16 off the board. Who won in 16? Emma Stone. And she gets one later. Yeah. She doesn't get it for Lala Lynch. Can't say I approve of that. I'm with you, Joanna. I really hoped you would pick this one. You're fixing the like sci-fi of the mid-2010s with Mad Max and arrival here. You know what? Thank you so much. Okay. All right. Amanda, we're back to you. Yes. I have another. I'm going to go old school Best Picture nominee snub 1938

Bringing up Baby Hell yeah Hell yeah girl Are like What? Thank you Hell yeah girl Run on

Listen Is it baby Bringing up baby is What were you going to ask? Nothing, go ahead I mean it's It kind of invents all of it I mean it is before

Philadelphia story for His Girl Friday. It is like one of the signature screwball comedies of Hollywood, a perfect movie. And, you know, still referenced in great films like Jurassic Park, whatever, the most recent one was called. Rebirth, Rebirth. Yeah. Jonathan Bailey doing his best American, you know, natural history museum. Absolutely dog baby of a movie.

Yeah. Sorry, bro. And dog baby of a movie. Why do you say sorry, bro? loved it. I thought it was fine. Do you think Johnny Bailey's glasses in that movie was a nod to carry Grant in his glasses?

I do. Should we be close. For people who didn't see it, should we recap what happens in the draft world? Should we re-rebirth? What happened to rebirth? I've watched it over people's shoulders on plane enough times in segments. I think I've got it.

Like, I think I figured out the plot without ever hearing it. You don't need to hear anybody talking. I think I'm good. Not a lot of good talking in the movie. It's not like to improve on in films going for. Did David Kep write that? He did. He did.

That's why when we're like, David Kep, it's. It's a mixed bag. You never know. Yeah, you really never know. Bringing a baby zero Oscar nomination. It's crazy. That's pretty wild. Harry Grant.

No. No odds. They took this for granted. They didn't know how good they had it. This is a great quiz. I never would have been able to do well on this. How many best picture nominees from 1938 can you name this table collectively? I just looked at it so I will excise myself from this.

How many of them have I seen? Not that many. Because 39 is so iconic. And 38, I got. 38, there are 10 nominees. Rattle them off so we can say where we've seen it. Well, you can't take it with you. you won.

Yes, and I have seen the capital win. The Adventures of Robin Hood, which is very good. Earl Flynn win. Okay. Errol Flynn win. Alexander's ragtime band.

I've seen it. Haven't seen it. You've seen that. Nice. Boys Town. The Citadel. Four daughters. Grand Illusion, of course.

Renoir's masterpiece. Jezebel. Great. Very good film. Pygmalion. Pretty my fair lady. And test pilot, which I haven't seen.

I've seen test pilot. Yeah, you were the star. You wrote directed and starred in test pilot. I'm 103 and six years old. I want to clarify something real quick. Joe, for Amy Adams' arrival, 2016, did you put that in Best Actress Winner Snub? Yes.

Does it matter that she was not nominated for? No, we're allowed to take that. It's okay. Okay, got it. Just wanted to clarify. Thank you for clarifying. Okay. Now we're up to Chris.

Okay. Yeah? Yes. I'm going to go in Best Director. Mm-hmm. Okay. I think I have this right. And I'm going to play your little game, Sean.

Because if we give Peter Jackson Best Director for the Two Towers Which is what he deserves it for Wow, all right We can then give Peter Weir The Master and Commander Oscar that he deserves Several years later I love this for you

This is my favorite thing that's ever happened And honestly I would have taken Clint Mystic River As the second choice in that category For the one that Return of the King one Turn of the King ends 19 times. Does not have Helms D. That's a cumulative win. Thanks for the trilogy.

And I'm like, I'm out on that. You got to be judged on its merits. So Deney should have won for June 2. Don't wait to give Deney the fucking Oscar for this one. Right. So you said Return of the King is a three out of ten. But two towers is a ten at a ten. No, not three. It's like a...

It's the worst one. What happens in two towers? Interesting. Two towers is Holmes deep. I think you're right. I think it is the worst one. I think it is the worst ending. I would feel differently.

The trees walker. I'm like, oh yeah. Soramon? The tree people? The end. The tree people? I heard, I know about the tree people. Ents.

The ants. The ants. The ants. Guys, I feel, I feel really good about my influence on this podcast today. So yeah. We were like this before. So you're taking away Romano. We were definitely.

We were going warm and arms. A box. I'll put away Roman. Polanski's Oscar, obviously. You want to give him another one you said? I do. You want to give him one? Special Oscars called the Romans.

You want to give him one this year? No. I'm saying he just... Just so that Ed Harris and Amy Madigan cannot clap for him. Wait, I thought they didn't clap for... They didn't clap for a real exam. I'm just saying like again.

They probably wouldn't clap for Roman Plainskyal, so I gave him that credit. Were there any other people who testified in front of who act that you want to give Oscars to? Oh, reverse the blacklist. No. Yeah, no, just anybody who squealed. Yes. You know? No, I'm not, I'm just, I'm just trying to get.

No one, I'm just for squealers, but. In front of Congress, would you name names? Yeah, name, your name. Eddie has. That was part of my, like, chaplain research, because Wright Chaplin doesn't have a directing Oscar. Wait, Charlie Chaplin or, like, the movie Chaplin? Charlie Chaplin. Okay, yeah.

Una Chaplin. And that part of it was blacklisting. Yeah. Yeah. So, part of it. Okay, I'm up. I do not like Joseph McCarthy, by the way. You don't, you're not.

You love that. You think he is elite. Um, 1939. Oh yeah, here we go. He's not been touched on. Yeah. Big whiz. Yeah.

I'm not going big whiz. I'm the wizard of Oz. You're not in the pocket of big munchkin? I, I truly am. I truly am. I was listening to the Munchkin land song with Alice and we were listening to it on Spotify with the lyrics on and I was like, what in the world? It's really, yeah, when the children sit there and like,

no, can we listen to that part again? Pretty weird. Lollipop Guild. I'm like, well, I don't know why you know this. Well, there's like a full-blown autopsy transpiring. Listen, muchkins have corners too. It's a well-running society. When she is listening to the 2032 version of a little peep

on the 232 version of SoundCloud. And I believe, wait, isn't the official diagnosis, she's not only really dead? She's really most sincerely dead. Really most sincerely dead. That's a technical term. No way's here. 1939 Robert Donnet wins for goodbye Mr. Chips.

No, we're not, come on. We're not doing that. That's not okay. Over Jimmy Stewart and Mr. Smith goes to Washington. Now, this also has some serious ramifications if you do this. And you're also ignoring Clark Gable here, if we're out with the wins. Which I would not pick. I would pick Jimmy Stewart in this category because I'm not racist.

Mr. Smith goes to Washington. That leads to Jimmy Stewart winning for the Philadelphia story, which means Henry Fonda doesn't win for the Grapes of Wrath. which means we have to wait for Henry Fonda to win in On Golden Pond, which is not a good win. And then we get to give Warren Beatty his acting Oscar because he never got one in Reds. So I'm giving Jimmy Stewart the 39 Oscar. And then everybody gets to be happy. Okay.

I can't believe the Grace of Rath came back. Your head is kind of shaped like Jimmy Stewart's. Thank you. Just thinking out loud. Screen legend. One of the most beloved figures in Hollywood history. Yeah. Yeah.

And what about my manner? You mean, you're more stammering. You're more Jimmy than Carrie Gresh texting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I feel good about that.

Goodbye Mr. Chips. I've seen it. Okay. Wow. So many of these movies who's next. No, sometimes you see, like you get to a goodbye Mr. Chips and you're just like this one? That's exactly how I felt. Okay.

Katie has two selections. I do. How are you feeling about your draft? I'm feeling good about my draft. I'm feeling a little like figuring out where to go next, which is I think what are spread right now? Like, what decades do you have on the board? Oh, what a great question. I've got 1989, 1974, 1941, and 2004. I've done pretty well. And you know, weirdly, I'm looking at 21st century picture snubs and having a harder time, even though this is like, I have been covering

the Oscars in this period for such a long time. Is this where we do challengers? But I had the question of like, is when we were talking about the realistic nature of it, like, I pushed that boulder up that hill for challengers and couldn't get there. Like, I don't think there was a world in which that was going to be challengers. So, like, am I trying to take it more seriously. I think there's one really good one left. In 21st century. Yes. Okay. I think I'm going to get to that in a second, but I'm

also looking at the fact that we have a big year left on the board, and I think I'm going to go you guys might be mad at the pick I'm going to make here. I think I'm going to go real zag. I'm going to 1999. Someone's got to do it eventually. I'm going a best director, and I'm going with the Wachowski's. We should have been nominated for the Matrix.

That's really good. That's really good. The 1990 is just famously awful Oscar. where like basically nothing that gets nominated or wins is what should be in there. This is a real pro-Ripley. Oh, no. So the only reason this isn't my Ripley pick is because I already did picture nom. Like I had some feelings of a ripley too. I mean, Damon wasn't even nominated for Talented Mr. Ripley, but that's like a real.

That should be. In my opinion. I kind of figured one of you guys would take Ripley already and then I would have that. But so I... That's a good way to get into that. I mean, there are a lot of even nominee snubs there. Like Eyes Wide Shut, Matrix and Ripley were not nominated for Best Picture. That's crazy.

You get Magnolia in there in a couple of categories, but not in picture. The screenplay winners, like, I clicked into this. Like, would you believe that the Cider House rules won best adapted screenplay over election, the insider in Ripley? That was a Weinstein. Mindstein. Yeah, and the Green Miles in there, too. All credit to my name. Also, terrible Michael Cane win.

Oh, absolutely. I mean, there's, it's a real, it kind of rivals 2018, I think, in terms of like this is what we gave you and this is what you came up with for the Oscar winners. Trying to explain to like younger film fans of like the spell that the Weinstein machine cast and you know, they're like, what do you mean cider house rules? It really had to be there. We all saw it. My dad used to quote it to us. Like, I don't know what to tell you. We all said, I guess this is what we have to do. I mean, again, I mean, we can't get to it because we're not in wildcard, but like original screenplay American Beauty wins over being John Malkovich, Magnolia the Sixth Sense in Tops of Turvey.

terrible. But I mean, I just stick with the Wachowski's in terms of the Matrix. And when you think of like, you picture 1999 in your head, great film year, but like the Matrix is right there. What they invented, what that movie did in terms of capturing the culture. You were talking about this, Joanna, when something becomes big and it gets people's attention and it's technical and innovative. And the Oscars were just so not ready for it on any level. And now we can fix that. So that's, that's my pick. Okay. So I guess I do have to do 21st century. And I'm curious. I think this is where I just kind of have to go with my heart. And Joanna, you're going to laugh at me because this is something we talked about too many times. I'm going to 2018, an Oscar year where a lot of things got really messed up.

And you might think you know what I'm doing, but I'm going with first man. I knew from the second you open your mouth. And I almost, when last time we were texting about Foxcatcher, I almost said, no, that's first man that you're not allowed to talk about on podcasts anymore. Well, you didn't. So I'm talking about it now. This is Damien Shazel's follow up to La La La Land. It is, I think, this gorgeous biopic that takes this idea of the great man and the great thing that you did. Let me cook. I also saw it at the Toronto Film Festival. I think I was pregnant and I'd been away from home for a week and I lost my mind.

And I thought it was like the most emotional thing I'd ever seen. But 2018, again, that Oscar, that Best Picture lineup is not entirely trash. I mean, this is the year that Olivia Coleman wins. So we have things that we can celebrate. But it's also the year of Bohemian Rhapsody. And, hang on what else am I going to yell about? I just deleted Bradford. Cooper a star is born from my, but and in director.

Tony Collette as well. Vice gets into the best picture. I don't even love Roma that much. Maybe we can yell about it. So I just, my heart is there with first man in 2018 with all due apologies to a star is born, which I also love. This is also a great example of a movie that is lost to recent history that may have had more eyeballs if it had gotten nominated. So this is actually like how it did cinema a disservice by not getting nominated. Yeah.

Katie loves a dad movie and I love that about Katie. Yeah. Saw this at Cinerama Dome. It was fucking awesome. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Sean's shaking his head over there.

No, I... Just a bunch of boys. They were. They were. And they changed history. I think that it's a movie that people thought was like an old school Oscar movie and it's actually more of a new school Oscar movie, but you couldn't tell because it was Shazel and it was the space race and an astronaut.

But it's really like a really quiet, interesting character study about a very sad person. And it doesn't really play the way that a lot of Oscar movies tend to play for that reason. But it's a great pick and a great, great movie. It's your turn. It's my turn, yeah. I interviewed Shazel with Bill during that press run, which is kind of fascinating. I think Shazel sitting in the room with both of us, and he was like, who am I supposed to be looking at here? He was in such a weird spot after La La Land.

He didn't really have a chance to. Did you ever hear that interview? It's pretty funny. I have, yeah. It's also just like the riding shotgun on a Bill interview. is one of those like, am I, I'm disassociating so hard. We've done it a few times. It's always interesting.

Gosh, I haven't done Best Director yet. I've done, I think I've done every other category, haven't I? I have. Besides Wild Card. Besides Wild Card. I'm just going to do it. In 1982, Richard Attenborough wins Best Director for Gandhi over Stevens Bealberg for E.T., which is just absolutely nonsense.

I think that win is also not a great win, but this is, Steven Spielberg, another one of these people who just had to wait weirdly too long and has since been kind of properly recognized by the Academy, but that much longer. 11 more years, right? It doesn't went until Schindler's list. But it's still, like, that's still

so early in his career relatively, right? There's so much after, Shinler. I guess, but, like, think about everything he accomplished between Jaws and Schindler's list and the way that he basically remakes Hollywood in his image. And so it was, it's always interested in me that he didn't

win across that period of time that like they sort of made him wait and you know the Attenborough win is obviously recognized somebody who had been in Hollywood and in British filmmaking since the 1930s you know Gandhi's okay I revisited it for the Daniel Day Lewis Hall of Fame because he's in one scene I think it's

his first film performance and he's darn good in it but God is you're gonna run it back for your Candis Bergen Hall of Fame or I might this is one of the great fuckups and best directing and the person who should have won didn't even get nominated that's where Lee Scott

I was also taking blood run away from you in this one, yeah, in case you were looking for that. And you took Paul Newman in the verdict, which I still think is when he should have, he should have won. That's a rich year for Oscar travesties. I had a tron's visual effects down in a wildcard option. I probably wasn't going to pick it, but I just throwing that out there. I saw you've been visiting those with your children. Tron took over my household. We pivoted from Star Wars to Tron.

We just like live in 1984 now. It's weird. What's the, what's the word on the original Tron? Oh, it's a little boring. but like we keep coming back to it. It's like it's where all the visual stuff comes from. Sure. Yeah, my kid wants to draw stuff from Tron and there's more to get from the Tron movie than the other two.

Chris, you're up. 21st century Best Picture nominee snub. I've left. Yeah. 2006 Children of Men. That was the big one that I said. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh my God. You just screwed over my best actress. No. I was going to do Merrill and Deborah Rose Prada for Best Act. Oh, yeah. That's okay. Best Picture nominees that year departed, which won Babel. Letters from Iwo Jima, Little Miss Sunshine and the Queen.

What's your favorite of those? He's a real I'm a departed. What's your second favorite? Babel. Just say it. Yeah, it's okay. My wife had such a bad panic attack watching Babel. No, that was 21 grams.

That's my bad. Babel was kind of her worst nightmare. Yeah. We're on a bus in the middle of nowhere. Children men I'd put in for, honestly, for Babel, I put it in over a little Miss Sunshine and the Queen and letters from Uujima, but like, it's take your pick. You felt Clint should not have focused on the Japanese perspective. No, I thought that was an interesting gambit, like to do the two films fly back to back.

You always take away from my P.O.B. by accusing me of being a crypto-fascist, but I'm not. I want children of men to win. I'm just asking questions. I'm just asking questions. Children men absolutely rocked us on 25 for 25. Yeah. On the reeves that we were like, what's the best movie ever made? One of two times I started crying on the podcast last year.

Yeah. That movie is incredible. Lights out. Yep. Really good. Okay. Amanda, you're up. Oh, it's me. Okay.

So I was going to do Merrill Streep in Devil Wars Prada in 2006 for my best actress winner snub over Helen Mirren and the queen. Helen Mirren and the queen, very good. That seems like a, it's just like a nice to be nominated situation for that one. It was kind of a, I don't know if it was a, if it was a, if it was. What was it a makeup win? What was it a makeup win for? It's not like it at the time. And I feel like I didn't realize. I was like, oh, it hasn't been like some other big thing she would have won for.

Yeah. She never felt passed over. It was just like she's a star of stage and TV and Prime Suspect. Like she had been all over everything. And it's just really like, Helen Mirj and Genevon Oscar. She cruised it. It also feels like everyone was just like, oh, we're sorry for being mean of the queen because she's old now. No one was thinking. I think non-Irish people were.

Yeah. Maybe. I don't know. We're the English thinking about that, Chris. I'm sorry we were mean to the queen. In a box. So, but I do have Best Actress Winner's Sub. So I'll just go with my backup in 2003. Diane Keaton for Something's Got to Give.

Good. Which was nominated and I think is like one of only two Nancy Myers-related nominations to ever happen, the other being screenwriting for Private Benjamin. But, like, I think Diane Keaton can have two Oscars in my book. It's fine with me, but this is... Book Club and Book Club, too. Have you seen both book clubs? I saw a book club. Okay. I haven't seen the second time. Tell me about the sequel.

Do they read 50 Shays Gray, the sequel? They go to Italy, and there's an incredible makeover sequence with Diane Keaton, too, where she, like, Diane Kinney she wears, like, she gets a whole polka dot thing. They also perform the song, Gloria, like at some sort of restaurant opening somewhere in Italy. Van Morrison's Gloria? No, Laura Branigan. Get with it. Okay.

Got it. G-L-O-R-I-A. Yeah. Yeah, I also know that one. Okay. I don't know. Something's got to give is like one of the great modern rom-coms. Also, you know, a performance later in life about the being later in life, which best actress doesn't always recognize.

Are you taking away Charlize's as Oscar and giving her another one? Listen, I haven't thought that far about what she wants. She can have it for the old guard or whatever? Can she take Brie Larson's in the fast movies? Megatron or whatever? Cypher? Yes. She can take Brie Larson.

This is not my corner. She leaves supporting in Mad Max. What do you think? Chris, do you like, are you... Visually. Is it a silent film. Are you turned on by Charlize in the fast films? No.

I've never seen Charlize's fast films. Never seen. No. How many are there? She's in three? She's in nine, ten. Right? Like eight nine ten?

Eight nine ten. I prefer her at the end of Dr. Strange. Oh, that's her best role. Actually, honestly, if we're really being real... When she comes out of the... My favorite is atomic blonde. Yeah, it's good. Yeah.

Well, say multiple versus madness. Say it's full name, you know? Yes, Dr. Strange in the multiverse of madness directed by Sam Ramey. Please show some respect. Back on top. Sam's back on top, guys. Two weeks in a row, send help. Okay.

Are you up now, Joanna? Two picks? I believe it's me. To finish out my entire thing. This is you wrapping it up. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

So in Best Picture Nomination Snub 20th Century, because I could not give Kurosawa the director, slot that he deserved. I'm going to do 1956, 7 Samurai Best Picture Snub. Good one. It's a great movie. Have you heard of it? A classic film.

Wait, what year? 1956, right? That's a rough best picture line up right there. What is it? What's on the board? Around the world in 80 days wins. Bad. Friendly persuasion. It's a movie I haven't seen. I love William Myler. Giant in there, respect. The King and I

and the Ten Commandments. I think you can find room for The TCs. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Can you name all ten of them? Uh... No.

There's a great bit. I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just rewatched the mask of Zorro. You ever see that movie? Yeah. It's a really fun movie. Why did you rewatch that? I'll tell you why. Oh, I can tell you why right now because it will have already happened.

I was rewatching the films of Martin Campbell because we're doing Golden Eye on the rewatchables. Oh, fine. So that's the movie he makes immediately after Golden Eye. I did not do that. This is what I do. You just replay the game like forever. No, I've actually just been living with only Nokia era technology

for the last two weeks. So anyway, I bring it up because there's a really funny moment where Catherine Seda-Jones' character goes to give confession. And in the confession booth, you know, play acting as a priest as Antonio Benderis, who's not a priest. And she says,

you know, father, I've come to make a confession. I broke the fourth commandment. And he pauses. And he says, what could have caused you to have broken the most sacred of commandments? And she was like, well, I wasn't loyal to my father. And he was like, oh, shit. Like, that's not the most sacred of commandant.

He did not know, obviously, the Fourth Commandment was. So, you know, let's name them all right now. Let's go around the table. I have a Ten Commandments question. And this is maybe an L.A. thing you guys all know. But at the Chinese theater, the, like, the multiplex version of it, they just have the Ten Commandments from the movie. Those are the real ones, like the... Those are the ones from God.

Yeah. Yeah. They landed in Los Angeles thousands of years ago. It was just like a random empty multiplex and then there were incredibly old movie props. I couldn't believe it. You guys just live like this.

There's definitely kill. It's weird. Usually it's costumes. Yeah, sure. Yeah, there were costumes in there too. I love how you went there right after that. Did you get, yeah, so killing. Cover the neighbor's wife.

Right. Stealing. False gods. Oh, yeah. What about stuff? I had to take a whole year. You ought to be above all. Like taking your neighbor's stuff, not just their wife, but also their cattle.

That's stealing. That's stealing, yeah. Oh, stealing. What about keeping the Sabbath? Oh, sure. Yeah. How many are we at? Taking the Lord's name in vain. Advancing the runner. Okay. Pardon me? Advancing the runner? You know, just make a good baseball race. Sure, bunting? Yeah, that's like, that's a sin.

We all have a chance. Can I ask for a prediction from you? Yeah. What percentage of the Golden Eyrie watchables will be spent on Fomka Jensen, do you think? I would say 83%. That is where the overrunner starts. What's your name? Elena on a top. Yeah, on a top.

Very excited for this spot. She plays Baccarat and she derives sexual pleasure from beating men up. No, from choking men to death with her legs. With her thighs. Which. On top. That's something I understand. Okay.

Who's up? It's me. Joanna has one more. Just clarifying Joe, Seven Samurai, 1956 because of the U.S. release. Yes. Okay. Thank you. And then, last but not least.

least, and this is just fixing history and not involving Albert Knobbs. In 1988, we are giving Glenn Close the best actress Oscar for Dangerous Liaisons. Judi Foster, we're taking one of her Oscars away, but she still has her silence to the lambs Oscar, so I'm not mad about it. I've gone down this rabbit hole before, and it is a really clean fix. Heidi. I like it. Yeah.

It doesn't honor the three actresses nominated for Working Girl that year, but okay. Tough. It is tough. It's too bad. Jody, you think not elite? Yeah, that's what I said. Not deserving of two? Yeah, I really don't care about movies about women and sexual assault, you know, like, all that's our stuff.

Glenn Close and Danger's Lee's Ones is like an absolute incredible performance. Very good. Danger's liaison is like a perfect film. She's incredible in it and this would have saved us a lot of agitation over the years. I never would have had to watch her twerk, you know, and that's really important to me. Oh, yeah. The COVID Oscars when she was the only. Here's the question.

Would you still have to... No, she did debaillology. Is that the same thing is working? And that's in the Soderberg Oscars? Yeah, Trace Asian Oscars. COVID Oscars. Did you want to say? I did.

Yeah. You don't remember. By memory old that. It's really tough. Very tough. Okay. Okay. Back to Amanda.

And I, there's just a tremendous number of things here left, including the cute pick that I'm not going to do. Well, Ray finds Ian, a bigger splash was taken. And then I'm not going to do Javier Burdenman in Skyfall. even though I stand by that. I had Skyfall. Um, since I wound up being pretty, like, 21st century heavy, I'm going to try to go back in time. And I kind of can't. I'm going to do a best picture.

Well, no, no, no, I can do whatever I want. It doesn't, it doesn't matter what category it is. Um, Network didn't win best picture. It did not. In 1976. So I'm going to take that. And I'm taking that over all the president's men, another film. that I absolutely adore that did also not win Best Picture because Rocky did.

Where do you stand on Rocky? You know, we were in Philadelphia for Thanksgiving and we went to the top of the steps and we did the little pose. And it's a great soundtrack and it's slow. It's really slow. Rocky is very slow. I mean, I prefer Creed to Rocky at this point just from a watching experience. That said, like I obviously wept. Because Rocky's white?

In Creed. Yeah, that's, yeah. Sean. I wept during Creed when the Rocky theme song came in. So it's like I honor the accomplishment. I'm just ignoring you at this point. In 20206 I want you to dig deeper. We're going to mix it up.

We're talking a lot of history, you know. So that's great. Anyway, I go with Network because it, you know, predicted the world. Or like measured the world at the time that it was. Oh, okay. That was you. That was John Avelton's goal. who just knocked that off

because he was like, this will not stand. Yeah, so I'm going with Network over all the President's men because it is a transient work of a social commentary. I mean, it's just one of the greatest movies ever made.

Yeah, and all the President's men, I mean, suck it again, journalism, I mean, I probably rewatched all the President's men more personally. Yeah. You know, a taxi driver, also nominated that year. Honestly, maybe even more resonant in our culture than Network

or all the presidents men, to be honest. Dope of Amanda was like, I only watch taxi driving. Okay, CR, your last pick. For my wild card, inspired by the if this, then, that machinations that you guys have been doing. Let's go, I think I can do this year-wise. 1978. And let's give Ennio Morricone best score for beating, was that,

Giorgio Moroder that year? Saturday Night Fever? Hold on. No, not Saturday Fever. This is fun. I'm being serious. Georgia Omero Roto from Midnight Express wins that year. Anyomorikone wins here for Days of Heaven,

clearing him from needing to win for Hateful 8, which is kind of a mixtape of Aniomercone co-music, and we give it to Yohan Yohansen for Sicario that year. And he passes away just a few years. years after that. It's true. You got Sicario into this pod. You got Monster and Sicario on this podcast. I'm really proud of me for that. We follow our hearts. But how can you not reward

any Omore Cone for Days of Heaven? That's true. You got first man into this podcast. See? That's great. Okay. Movies. They're good. Love movies. So I've got one more pick left. In Wild Card. Wild Card is overwhelming.

Yeah, because we just, we have so much stuff. I know. There's so much stuff. I can't believe how much based on the list. Perhaps the biggest one ever ever got talked about here, right? The biggest, the biggest. One of the biggest travesty snubs ever

or whatever, you know. What are you referring to? Saving Prime Ryan? Oh. Is it? Well, 98 is off the board. I know, I just mean we didn't do it. Yeah, we haven't talked about it.

Well, you're a fan. That's just, okay. I love defender right here. I love Shakespeare. Yeah. I like it as well. Yeah. Okay, it's fine.

It's fine. It's the best actress winner. It's like, you know, uh, your first man, pick was really good, but it really stymied where I was hoping to go on wildcard. When he was a rich text. I really wanted to go Ethan Hawken first reformed. That's the year that Rami Mollock wins for Bohemia Rhapsody.

That's a rough win. And there are some interesting nominees in the category that year, but I love Ethan Hawken first reformed. I think I'm going to go with like a very obvious one that always shocks me every time I hear it. And we have, 1997 is still on the board, right? I was literally just Googling. Yeah, like, yes. Close Encounters of the Third Kind was not nominated for Best Picture. And that's just mind-blowing.

And it's not exactly the most legendary collection of five that we're nominated. It's the Goodbye Girl, Julia, Star Wars, notable, The Turning Point, and Annie Hall. Now, obviously, Star Wars and Annie Hall, at the time, acclaimed movies, huge hits, very important to movie history. The Goodbye Girl and the turning point of the same director? So you're doubling down on your justice for Spielberg in this era? I think so. Spielberg doesn't have enough Oscars. This is my hot and correct.

Take you is three Oscars, one for Best Picture, two for director. It's not enough. Also, have you seen the turning point? No. It's really not good. Listen, and I love a ballet film as much as the next person. I'm not here to defend the turning point. I just think it's interesting that of like seven slots you need two to go to Spielberg.

Well, that is how I feel. Disclosure Day is almost upon us. Yeah, that is truly how I feel. At the DGAs, everyone in that room was awed by being in the presence of it. just talked about this on the show. I mean, his, his aura was very strong in the room. We should do 21st century

Spielwork for draft. Oh, that was so fun. Great. Oh, is there, done. Yeah, for the three of us. Yeah. For disclosure day. For disclosure day.

Great. Okay. So, yeah, I'll put close encounters of the third kind in my wild card spot. Did you have anything that was like... It was nominated, I think, because Star Wars was nominated. They're like, surely we will not put two science-by movies.

And he was nominated for director. So we need to give this guy in the current point to. Okay. All right. 77 takes my best weirdo wild card in one of my favorite categories, which is original song, which gets so weird all the time. Injustice is done constantly because New York, New York,

made famous by Fankt Chonacha, is in the film New York, which I don't think I would have nominated for Oscars as a film, but as a song it would have been in there. So I try to think of some songs, but there's like one other really huge, really famous snub, the movie that taught me truly, I think, what an Oscar snub was, which is 1994 documentary feature Hoop Dreams.

You don't know about basketball? You're familiar with the sport? Possibly the best pick of this draft. Welcome to the ringer. I got to give credit to my friend Chris Fyle of that this had Oscar Buzz podcast, which is about all of this stuff, so anyone who loves it can listen to them. But he picked that.

They did stunts a couple years ago, 100 of all time, and this was the number one pick. And I do think it is this definitive how the Oscars have blind spots, how they can fix it. Documentaries were really, like, it's kind of a different world of docs back then. Like, the winner is Maya Lynn, a clear, strong vision, which I guess would have been in theaters, but sounds like a real PBS kind of thing. And I think that's how the 90s were. But, I mean, Hoopter Rooms is, it feels kind of like an extended, like, evening news segment, which is more or less

what it is. It's kind of public television, but it is long and extensive. And it kind of sets this model for these long-term documentaries and having films about people who you might not necessarily see in film and television all the time. So it's, again, yeah, like an iconic, I remember them making jokes about it, watching the Oscars as a kid, and having to ask my parents what they were talking about. And it taught me a lot. It's interesting that you picked that for a variety of reasons. One of the things that it reminded me of was Siskel and Iber really went out of their way to praise this movie.

They were like, they really devoted a lot of time to it on their show. They both loved it. I think in their best of the decades, that was very high on their list. And I think that that shows something that has kind of changed about the Academy Awards over the last 25 years or so, which is that they're much closer in line with critics than they used to be, especially in the last 10 years. There was a long period of time

where it did feel very clubby at the Oscars. And a lot of things that would win was very much related to who you knew and how you knew them. There's like Tamini Hall stuff. It was like backer and deal. A lot of small groups talking about what they really like and then hive minds forming around that. And then a lot of like some curiosity around the outer edges.

Do you chalk that up to social media? I think that's it. I think a big part of it is. The industry, like you pointed out, the top of the conversation has gotten much bigger. The campaigns start way earlier. There is a lot more kind of like opportunities to talk about things and to also like share the truth for lack of a better phrase.

We can't let this happen. The Chappaloat is not getting in for best pictures. Yeah, but like Andrea Riseborough still just, you know, and social media like helped its, you know, Mary Way. I remember by the doctor Edward Norton. Three years ago. Three years ago. There's just some goofy stuff.

But you also got Oscar voters who live in Brazil and Hong Kong and all these places, they can't, they don't have access to that kind of insidery thing. So it just isn't as powerful as it used to be by the sheer numbers of it. Okay. Honorable mentions. Yeah. Oh, boy. There's got to be a few on the book for you. Can I ask, before we do honorable mentions, did you guys have one?

What would you be your most controversial one? Oh, let's see. What would have been your one that you were like, I'm taking away from what many people consider a deserving winner? I will give you an example just as a conversation starter. I think that Angelica Houston should have won for the grifters instead of Kathy Bates for Misery. Just on my personal preference of those performances. Isn't Kathy Bates for Misery also 1990, which would be Julia Roberts for, well, I'm taking, I would have taken. Julia Roberts over Kathy Bates?

Absolutely. And that also would have taken away Goodfellas and Scors and Scorsese and Director. Could have been a move. Yeah. Kathy Bates is, you know, Kathy Bates is wonderful. Here's the one I was too scared to play, but I kind of wanted to.

If we give Peter O'Toole the Oscar for Lawrence Arabia, we have to take it from Gregory Peck for it to kill a mockingbird. I think that's funny. Okay. At least Finch is like very important to me personally.

And so, and then Peck doesn't have another Oscar, so I couldn't make that match for me. But O'Toole doesn't have any Oscars. Well, he is an honorary Oscar. Does it count? in my book. That's a good one.

I don't know. I struggle to think of it like a super obvious. I don't think this one is as obvious, but I thought about it because it kind of did the reverse of what I was trying to do through some of this, which is I would take away Nicole Kidman's Oscar for the hours,

and I would give it to Julianne Moore for Far from Heaven. But then I would also take away Emma Stone's second Oscar for poor things and give it to Nicole Kidman for Baby Girl. Like that sort of like some of those moves. You're just swapping ginger's around. Some of my favorites. I know. I was going for Still Alice.

Which is just not really a very good film. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I was going to give. I mean, that's the thing that got you, you did dragon tattoo instead of Gone Girl being. It's just I. That, we didn't talk about Fincher enough as I guess.

Yeah. And we talked about them a lot. We got social network and dragon tattoo in. Do we never do 07? Because I thought I had Zodiac right down and we just never got to it. Zero Oscar nominations for Zodiac. No one wanted to ride for heat at this table. I, I, I am.

obviously always writing for here. But yeah. If they did a, he was 95? Yeah. If they did a 30 year later Oscar vote amongst the entire active academy, and maybe they should do something like this. That would be really fun if they did something like this. But if they did a, just a typical vote, you know,

or just like every movie is on the board, every movie that was eligible then is eligible now. Would he win best picture? It would get nominated within a 10. I don't know if it would win best picture. Would it be nominated in a five? Yeah. How many votes is Christopher No one have?

Yes. I was noodling with 95 for Apollo 13 because I think the Ron Howard's. Can you read the nominees from that year? Yeah. So 95 Braveheart wins. Then the nominees are Apollo 13, Babe Il Posino, colon the Postman and Sense Insensensibility, great movie. And Angley is not nominated for Sentence Insensibility.

I thought about, I thought about Engley. That director lineup is, yeah, because Mike Figgis gets in for leaving Las Vegas and Tim Robbins gets in for Deadman Walking. And then Babe Elpostino. You know what? Just as for Ilpostino. Okay. There's no sense of sensibility.

No. I prefer heat. I would have also, I was kind of trying to give John Cazela a supporting actor. That's nice. 74 was tough. Were you trying to do it for, I think I had it for Godfather 2. What were you trying to do it for? No, I can't do it for Godfather 2.

Dog Day Afternoon. Maybe even Deer Hunter. That's a good one. Yeah, I couldn't do it. David Lynch from Hall and Drive is still on the board in 2001. And in 2001, which is sort of crazy. Oh, yeah, 2001 still is. Yeah, it's still on the board.

Who wanted to know one? Is that Ron Howard? Yes, for a beautiful mind. So if you get him in for 1213, I agree with that. Yeah. 2017 is still on the board, which was just an incredible year that, I mean, Shape of Water won, but that's Get Out, Call Me by Your Name, Lady Bird, Dunkirk, and Phantom Thread. That falls into a really interesting category of Shape of Water pretty much dominated that whole season.

There was not really a sense that it wasn't kind of. win. I think a lot of people, does anybody here really ride for a shape of water? No. We don't really love it. And yet, I don't know that it was like unjust because the academy did want that. We were just talking about this that it was like, on the East Coast, it was the post, right?

Everyone was like, the Post. Yeah. And then we started talking to people in L.A. And they were like, no, shape of water. And I guess because it's about cinema in a sort of way. And it was just very. But if you said like you got to give it to call me by your name Dunkirk Lady Bird or Get Out Out like every fandom thread these five movies they love I don't know which one I'm picking

It's really hard It all would have been cool wins too And meant something a little different to Academy history Yeah I read for Darkest Hour like I wouldn't give it to it But there's just good that's a good lineup Another Katie special Darkest Hour Darkest Hour is great Thank you

Oldman over Daniel Dealos that year is weird I think Willem DeLis had free already But he's the goat I really wanted Willem to Fall in the Florida project that year That was my Yeah, I know. 2022, still on the board. I would have picked Todd Field for tar.

Because, like, I feel bad taking it away from Michelle Yo. But when you're talking about controversial ones, like, Blanchett over Michelle Yo. I just like, it's an all-timer. Then she'd have three. That was an early race. That's okay. She's really good. Or we can take it away.

I don't even, what was Blue-Dazen? Everything, everywhere all at once, just overwhelmed. You could take that. I mean, that was one of like, that got a little dirty after a while. Oh, and then you could give it to. Did Kate Blanchett? Did he hate speech? What happened?

No, didn't Michelle? Not nominated. Didn't she post like a weird like... She did. She broke the rules. That's right. Yeah. She like reposted something

that someone shared. These parts, they can't handle social media. Like they just shouldn't do any rules. Do we, I don't think we ever did 2013. I think we thought we were and you were taught,

you talked about Leo. Yes, we didn't do it. That's another one of my big ones. I can't believe I didn't do, which is Tom Hanks and Captain Phillips who didn't even get nominated. That's a good stuff. One of the worst crazy.

Because it got nominated for picture. I think Greengrass got in for director and it just made no sense It's an amazing performance. Yeah, that's the McConaughey year. Yeah. That's also Francis Ha, which I just said in a side conversation

to Joe. We were talking about my Francis Ha. Yeah. We didn't do 97, right? No. So that's Boogie Knights. We needed like three more directors on this episode.

That's full lot of Boogie nights for the nominees. Nobody gave Stanley Kubrick and Oscar, right? Did we do 2001? We did 2001. As picture, but not. Yeah. Did he win an award?

the Oscar for effects I think But he didn't he wasn't the producer of the film right I don't know but he does not have a directing Oscar I know that's that's tough Yeah it's tough From that same sort of genre I think I had Do Bidoo Do BDU 64

I don't think so I would have done sellers for winner Strangelove yeah I'm also trying to give all the Rough Man An Oscar I just straight of I almost went strange love over my fair lady just in Best Picture Winner's snub.

I feel like that would have been a good one. Also, no, did we do 94? I did Hoop Dream to 94. Hoop Dreams, that's right, because Pulp Fiction over Forest Gump. Or Shawshank, if you like. I was expecting to play Tarantino Ford Director or Pulpiction at some point. But you're like double Stevie. Did we do the other guy?

Did we do 2019? We didn't. No. Would you do Jaila? That was another one where I was like there's such a rich field, but also. So Parasite and Bong winning, you don't want to undo. I can't undo the Parasite year. Yeah.

That would have been an interesting split if they had gone Tarantino in one of those two. I would have to San Mendez for 1917, though. It would be furious. Your dad is popping out. No, but they would have. That was what the race was. That is what the race was. My version of first man is Colin Farrell, Bantu's of Inashiren.

That's a good one. I really wanted that to happen. Who did he lose to? nothing bad it's okay he got every award for the penguin did anyone was Spanches 2019 2022 oh okay

wow then I don't remember I had two 2024 ones on there and I didn't know if I wanted to go that recent but I would have written for Marianne Jean-Baptiste and Hartreuse A Huge Best Actress Snub and then also nickel boys for cinematography Yeah that was Jomo Frey that was a really surprising yeah let me throw one more of you

Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross challengers Mm-hmm surprised you didn't pull that on your while. Well, you know, I also had Daniel Lepatten for Marty Supreme in 2025. We just didn't get into the score category. It's not too soon for me. We got Inneumorcah. We got him fixed. I know

my opinions the minute they happen. Mildly controversial, we didn't do 79. Would anybody take me going Roy Shider over Dustin Hoffman for Kramer versus Kramer, Roy Shider and all that jazz? I think it's a good take. I would have just taken either breaking away or Normaerate out and put Alien in best

picture. That was another series. No alien in best picture. Or also Fosse for all that jazz. Yeah, and director. Oh, that performance that we all love. It's tough. It's a bad one. In 1987, I'd just like to give it to broadcast news. Yeah, I had that in the last ever. It's just I really was set for me. I was like, can I take away shares Oscar and give it to Holly Hunter? And I can't. I can't. I can't do it. I know. I know. And I just can. Listen. Let me ask you like a point of order question. Do you

think Sally Field should have two? No. But they like her. They really like her. That's important. My favorite one where I was like, I'm trying to wedge this in as a snub, but actually had a hard time making the argument to some extent. It was 92. Did we just say, somebody just say 92?

I mean, I know we picked 92, right? Yeah. But Lasah Mohicans didn't get nominated for Best Picture. And that's Unforgiven, Crying Game, Few Good Men, Howard Zen, said of a woman. I would make the argument probably taking the son of the woman out. Did you see the Instagram clip of Peter Claffey of a night of the seven Kingdom's fame saying that the last Mojican score is his like amp up? Really?

Yeah, great score. That should have been nominee. I agree. Who did that score? Trevor, what's his face? Trevor Horn? Okay. And somebody else too.

Trevor Horn, was he the Lugie for the Minnesota Twins in 2013? No, he was like a guy who was in like a new wave group who then did like a moved in the soundtracks. And then I think Michael Mann like fire him. Bruns some else in. Let's recap our picks. We had seven picks each. We should go first.

Since Joanna picked first, you go first. Okay, great. Will you show me? Yes. So in Best Picture Nominee Snub, I picked Seven Samurai in 1956. In Best Picture Nominy Snub, 21st Century, I picked In the Moon for Love, 2000. In Best Picture Winner Snub, I picked Mad Max Free Road, 2015. In Best Actor, Winner Snub, I picked Harrison Ford in Witness, 1985.

In Best Actress Winner Snub, I picked Amy Adams in Arrival 2016. And in Best Director, Winner Snub, I picked Alfred Hitchcock, Rebecca, 1940. And a wild card, I picked Glenn Close, Dangerous Liaisonance, 1988, and I feel great. Great job. Thanks. Amanda. In Best Picture nominee snub, 20th century, I have Bringing Up Baby, 1938. In Best Picture nominee snub, 21st century, I have the Dark Night, 2008.

In Best Picture Winner Snub, I have this social network, 2010. In Best Actor-Winner Snub, I have Denzel Washington for Malcolm X, 1992. In Best Actress Winner Snub, I have Diane Keaton, Something's Got to Give, 2003. Best Director-Winner Snub, Wes Anderson, the Grand Budapest Hotel, 2014, and in Wild Card, Network. Best Picture winner, 1976. Great roster. C.R. In Best Picture nominee snub, 20th century, I took 2001 a Space Odyssey from 1968.

Best Picture nominee snub 21st century I took Children of Men from 2006 Best Picture winner snub I took Goodfellas from 1990 Best actor winner snub

Jeff Bridges not nominated for the Big Lobowski in 1998 Best actress winner snub Betty Davis from All About Eve

1950 Best director winner snub Peter Jackson Two Towers Domino Effect Peter Weir Wild card Ennio Morricone

Days of Heaven Best Score 1978 also a domino effect one. That's a great draft. Thanks. Yeah. In Best Picture Nominy Stub 20th Century, I took Singing in the Rain from 1952. In Best Picture Nominy Stub 21st Century, I took The Girl with a Dragon tattoo from 2011.

In Best Picture Winner Snub, I took Brokeback Mountain 2005. In Best Actor Winner Snub, I took Jimmy Stewart, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, 1939. In Best Actress Winner Snub, I took Ellen Burstin and The Exorcist, 1973. In Best Director, Winner Snub, I took Steven Spielberg for E.T. And in Wildcard, I took Close Encounters of the Third Kind as a Best Picture nominee, Stub, 1977. Katie, you're up. Okay. In Best Picture nominee, 20th century, I have Do the Right Thing.

Best Picture nominee, 21st Century, First Man. Best Picture winner, Citizen Kane, 1941. Best Actor, Jack Nicholson, Chinatown, 1974. Best actress Kate Winslet, Eternal Sunshine of a Spotless Mind in 2004. the director of the Wachowski's for The Matrix in 1999, and then Wild Card is documentary feature Hoop Dreams in 1994. Oh, yeah. Pretty good draft, guys.

We got 10 more of these. Appreciate all your hard work. That was a good. Good idea. Thanks. Dungeon Master. Who's going to get really fucking reamed this year? Who's going to be the person in this year's Oscars who were like,

shit. We got to draft this one. We do this again in 25 years. You know who I'm worried about is Jack Fisk? For Marty Supreme. Have you guys talked about this on the show yet? No. Legend, who was never won and did incredible work on Marty Supreme.

We talked about Jack Fitz. Yeah, he was a guest on the show. Oh, that's right. Of course. Yeah, I interviewed him. He's like the nicest person I've ever talked to. And Frankenstein just is kind of like hovering around. Is this Big Crafts type of thing?

I'm going to be a fucking brat about that if that happens. Yeah. I feel like Jack Fisk will be fine and we will be worried. Yeah. Okay, now Amanda and I are going to talk about Sarat. Okay, it's just us now. We dispensed with the draft. Right.

And changed clothes. We changed clothes. It's a different day. Let's just be honest, folks. We're here to talk about Sarat. Now, I've just completed an interview with Oliver Lachet, the writer and director of Sarat. And my feelings are shifting on the film.

Okay. Okay. Oliver was an incredible guest. Jack Sanders said he, that was his favorite guest of all time. Wow. I'm so excited. So, uh, genuinely the best opening to an interview we have ever done. Don't say anymore.

I don't want to spoil it, but let's discuss Sarat this film. So, you know, he co-wrote it with Santiago Philol, and it really only stars one actor of note, Sergei Lopez, who, you know, the rest of the actors in the film are non-professional actors who he scouted and found it raves. And the premise of the film is that this Sergei's character, Luis, is traveling through southern Morocco with his son Esteban. They're searching for his daughter, who has been missing for five. months. She was last seen at a dance festival in a desert. As they travel from party to party, they hear of a semi-mythical rave near the border of Mauritania. So they go on this kind of epic road trip. And the film kind of descends into madness from there. This film premiered at Cannes last May, and I had a chance to see it over the summer. I have personally been quite surprised by the

momentum it has picked up, not among cinephile crowds, where I think it is quite divisive, but amongst a slightly more normie award season Academy. We talked on our shortlist episode about how it had been recognized in several categories there despite its more unusual in nature. So you finally saw it. I did. And I thought I knew what the twist was, but I did not, which was good. So I went in pretty blind, which I hope other people will.

And I kind of, I don't think you should listen to the interview if you. you haven't seen the film. We didn't get into a lot of details, but I will say I'm putting this discussion and interview at the end of an episode that a lot of people will already dig because I think it's going to take time for some people to catch up to this. Maybe they can circle back to it if I haven't seen it. I'll speak broadly. I can spoil it in the first two minutes.

There's a man in Eagles jersey at the rave in wherever they are. Morocco. And I noticed it because my brain is diseased. That's how I'm living these days. That was your trauma for this film. I think that the first, like the big evil scene worked on me and didn't feel as manipulative as I think maybe you felt about it or some, you know, some others have. And then as the film went on, there were some other, I wasn't willing to go all the way. I say.

So I think I landed in a somewhat similar place. I received an email from a friend who was like, you have to talk to Oliver. And I'm not over the moon for Sirot, but I am kind of fascinated by it. And it is actually somewhat similar to me to how I feel about Wethering Heights, which we talked about on last week's episode, where it's sort of like, this is undeniably got some juice. Like there are a couple of moments that are unforgettable and burned into my mind. And I said that's Oliver. But I'm also trying to work through this idea of how was I being manipulated and what does it mean to be manipulated? What is the responsibility of cinema?

That was a big part of the conversation that we were having. And based on his mission for what he's trying to do in this film, he clearly succeeded because he did a few things that I was affected by, that I thought about a lot, that I still don't know if I think that they are just like merely provocation or communicating something more powerful. There were times when we were talking where I was confused by what he was saying about how he saw his film relative to what I saw.

And we should say that several of the characters experience like terribly violent ends. and that the movie gets quite crazy at a few different moments. And it is otherwise much more of sort of a road movie where you've got this kind of band of people who are brought together on this, you know, these paired missions, one, you know, this family in search of their daughter and then these ravers who are always in search of like the next rave, the next party, you know, the next step in the stage of life where you're sort of like evading a normal life

and living this much more itinerant experience where you're finding the next party every day. And I thought the performances were pretty good. I think they're not asked to do a ton. They're more asked to be themselves. I think the music is obviously pretty transfixing and it gives the film a heartbeat. The first shocking moment, which if you don't want the movie spoiled for you, don't listen anymore. But Esteban, the young boy who's with his father throughout the film, is playing on the side of a ledge when they're going across a kind of like Fitzcaraldo sorcerer style. you know, like a like a mountain pass? Yeah, mountain pass, yeah.

And he's playing on the side of the ledge with his dog and his father tells him to get on the car. Yeah. So that he's not playing on the ledge and he gets in the car and the car begins rolling backwards and it rolls off the mountain. Right. And Esteban falls to his death. Yes.

And up until this point, the film has a very, I'll say, European feel, which is that it takes, it's taking its time. It's a bit searching. It doesn't have what you would describe as like a driving plot. No, but it does have a lot of driving.

It's not not evocative of Mad Max Fury Road just in the sense of desert scenes, caravans, and a group of characters who are more symbolic than they are, like, fleshed out people with a ton of dialogue. And similarly, a world with people kind of on the outside edge of society, you know, people who are not part of the common power structure. that death fucked me up when I saw it and I was a little mad about it and I felt like it was a real poke in the chest and it's not just the death

it's the entire scene because it's a long scene purposefully constructed and the minute that Esteban is asked to move from the ledge you're like oh no you just like you and you know and you have to that that is an achievement

of filmmaking It explains to you exactly what is going to happen and then tortures you throughout the rest of the scene until it does happen. And the way that it does it, it involves one of the other vehicles in the caravan being stuck and these people are trying to get it moving and they have a moment of triumph. They get something. You know, you think the peril is over here and then the peril is very quickly over there. But also it's a three-minute scene that feels like 45 minutes. because again, it communicates to you in really classical filmmaking style

like what is going to happen in the worst possible way. I thought it was really effective. I was like, you got me and I'm pissed off. My husband watched Surat with me and then went to bed after that scene. He was like, I got it. I'm good. I'm going to bed. I think a lot of people have that reaction.

I do think it is there's a kind of purposeful punishment. Oliver kept saying you have to to die. You have to die. Yeah. Like that was something, that's, that's an idea that he felt very strongly about. And I'll also note that he's, um, six, seven with long hair and strikingly beautiful and eloquent and an artist and a European man with a wonderful accent. And I look like a dead scarecrow next to him. And it was just not a good look for me. But I hope people will enjoy it.

I think what happens next, the movie goes into like the land of the ecstatic. It kind of transforms from something that feels more grounded into a bit of a kind of like a negative fantasia and of like destruction and just when you think you've become free or punished for it and you know what's been sown in the land these kind of like tools of destruction that are all through these parts of the world will ultimately punish innocent people. You know, once the more things you add onto it,

the harder it is for everything to, to hold up in my opinion. So by the time that, again, spoiler alert, the minds went off and I was like, oh, fine. You know, I was startled. I had the effective jump scare quality. And that, but I didn't feel as, I didn't even feel manipulated, if that makes sense. I didn't feel drawn in enough to then be like, oh, okay, well, now I'm really pissed off at you. I just kind of, yeah, things are getting out of hand.

Yeah, I think that filmmaking in that final section with the landmines is really well done physical filmmaking. You really do feel the boom and the crash and the sort of like the shock of the moments. But I similarly didn't have the same emotional thunderclap feeling that I had with Esteban's death. Still, accomplished, interesting movie. Clearly a lot going on. He said that this is a movie's 20 years in the works. He's made three previous films. They all played a can, but they.

didn't really make their way to America the way that this one has. And I'm really intrigued by him. And I hope, I hope. This was a formative experience for you. Well, we'll see. I mean, we'll see how much it changes me, you know? I think, like I said, he had, you're fond of saying that someone has power. It's undeniable that this man has power.

And they'll be able to see it right now. Let's go to my conversation with Oliver Lachey. Very happy to be here with Oliver Lachey. here to talk about Sarat. I know everyone's saying where did this movie come from to you, but I want to know when it started. What happened? What was happening the day you started thinking about this movie? Sirat comes from, ah, I understand it. Yeah. Did you have a bad day? The wound. Yeah, yeah. I mean, my creative process is really very surreal, you know. I'm not, I'm not going to the office to work, you know, to make a film about and with the history of dialogue with this filmmaker

and this other filmmaker, you know, I mean, it's more, I have images at the beginning, intentions, and my creative process is really related with my personal development process. So in a way, I always, in a conscious way, I'm like exploring regions of my, being, will say. And, and I wanted to die. I wanted to die making the film. Yeah, I wanted to... I think when you watch Syrat, you die.

What was your experience, Sean? I felt a little violated, honestly. I did. I found it a little... Violated. Yeah, I found it really hard to take. And I mean that in a positive way, but...

I have some questions about that, But I want to wait for that for a second, for kind of how you maybe are worked with the audience or against the audience at times with our expectations. Not against. I'm trying to take care of the audience radically. That was the best way I found to take care of the spectators that is proposing to a spectator a catharsis. Cinema is a place for catharsis, a theater, you know. And I think we have to learn to die before dying. That was my intention also with the film. I think people who are from Western countries, we are escaping from death in a way.

Before we had a lot of ceremonials, a lot of read of passage to meditate and experiment death. That is the best way to be more free and more emancipated. So feeling that way, you wanted to put that feeling on screen specifically? Is that where that comes from? Or is it just you're trying to kind of like conjure a visual representation of that experience that you were having? I think that as a spectator, you, as I said, you die. I mean, you are confronted to your limits in a way, you know. You are on a subtle and inconsistent way when you watch Sirat.

You are confronted of your, can I say, smallness? Mm-hmm. Sure. And you are, you. And I think that when the film finished, I don't want to. to generalize. I mean, everybody feels it on a different way, but when the film finished, in a way, you are more alive. There is a feeling of a positive feeling, you know? This is the mystery of existence, Sean, you know? Sometimes, you know, it's through, through pain that we feel freedom, you know. I mean, I'm, I don't get birth, but look, the speech of

experiences of women who get birth, you know, it's. really painful. Yes. They die. Yes. They die. But the level of transmission, the level of wisdom that life gives to them, you know, when they get birth and the energy, the amount of love that they experiment, you know, when

that happened finally, you know. Physically it's that they die, you know, but they want to do it again. I mean, this is what Syrat explores in a way on a subtle and inconscion way. At the risk of going to the end too quickly, when we're at the end of the film and we're on that track and we're in the back of that truck, are those characters reborn then in your mind? Totally. Sirat is shock therapy. And yeah, there is a process of death and rebirth and you have transformed. I'm one of these people who feels that life

take care of you all the time, even the times that when life shakes you. Answer some practical questions about this film for me. It had been six years since your previous film. Were you working specifically on this in the duration of that time? I mean, yes, I'm a slow filmmaker, but I'm also working in an organization

where I live in the mountains in Galicia. I mean, I'm not just focused on cinema, you know. I'm also studying psychotherapy gestalt, you know, that takes me time. That is related also with the films I do. But yes, working in cinema, I like to be everywhere. You know, I'm really an artisan, controlling all the aspects of decoration, you know. I mean, it's not a work for me making a film, you know. It's not.

And so I don't know how many years will take me the next one. With this one, how do you find the right places to go to shoot this film? So I was living in Morocco for 10 years, so I really know this country and the mountains of Morocco are mountains that really give me a lot of serenity, you know? You are in front of the creation of the planet, you know, all to see. geology, you know, all the layers of, you know, I like this. And the desert, the desert is a place really transcendental. You are obliged to look inside on a desert, you know.

You, there is no, you can distract yourself. There is nothing where your highs can be distracted. You know, you have to look to the sky or to look inside. That is the same thing. The locations are fascinating. Is that are the desert raves? Are those based on real experiences that are happening? Are those events that are happening?

Had you attended many of those before you put this on screen? Can you tell me your experience doing that? Winters in Europe are tough. So, and also because ravers, they are living, you know, in the tracks or they are living on, you know, on cabins, you know. So they, and they are travelers, you know. I mean, raving is not just about parting, it's also about traveling. So they usually are really interested to meet other people, you know. In a way, also rave culture is a kind of neotribalism.

So, for example, in Morocco, they like to meet a lot of Berbers and to be with them. And so they escape from the winter and they fix their tracks. They are like three, four mechanicians in Morocco that they are specialized to form tracks and they dance in the desert or in locations that has something. That way of living is extremely foreign to me. I could not imagine in my suburban existence living in a major American city with my family and not spending my time looking for that kind of exultation, right? It seems like it's like an ongoing journey to find release, right, to find this like this catharsis that you're talking about.

What do you think is driving the people who live that way and then who you're portraying in the movie? I think that rave culture as art, as spirituality, is going through your limits. So it's not for everybody. Yeah, I really couldn't see it for myself. How did you find the actors? I need to... We did a wildcasting through rapes and communities. So we had a track.

We were like going, looking for a family, you know? So we were picking people everywhere. Some of them, they are friends of mine. And we were looking for fragility. That's what we love of people. And I think spectators were fragile and we like to see fragility in front of the, in the image. How do you know someone's going to be able to give a good performance if they're a non-professional actor? If you are touched by a human being, a camera can capture this, can capture the beauty, you know.

After, it depends on you. I trust the people. I don't trust myself. Sometimes you have the ability to capture their soul, their fragility, their mystery. Sometimes not. But it's a matter of time, you know. So that's why I take so much time to make my films

because these people were afraid to be shoot, obviously. So they were coming. We spent a lot of time at home. We were going to the forest war. We were watching films together. making rehearsals and that takes time. What films were you watching together? So we were watching a lot of American films.

Tulane Blacktop from Monty Hellman, masterpiece, Apocalypse Now. What else? Banishin point. Anheesing Phil. Easy Rider. We were watching, I remember we watched Days of Heaven.

The Malik film, yeah. A lot of road classics, American road classics. Yeah, I really... Obviously, we were watching Tarkovsky's and Brescent films that are so important for me, but this film, I think, that dialogues a lot with the American cinema from the 70s. This movies that I told you, did you understand? them? What they are talking about?

I think most of those movies are kind of not meant to be literally understood, but they're kind of metaphors for existentialist despair. You're always going towards something and it's still going to be painful at the end to your point. And you feel the time where they were made. You feel the society, you know, a 70th society that was crazy here, you know, all the polarity between, you know, the war, Vietnam, all the contracultural movement. use of psychedelics in psychology, you know, I mean, and you feel this energy on the films, you know. I mean, they were doing films like if it was the last one, you know.

When you're showing the films to the cast and the crew, are you saying to them, I want you to get into the mentality, the head state of these kinds of film. This is the kind of film we're making, or is it just I want to share this with everyone tonight and this is a way we can unwind? When I talk to who? When you're showing the film,

when you're screening the film to anyone who's associated with the movie. Associated? Yeah. And what is the question? Well, were you showing these movies specifically to other people who were in the film? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We were, to the actors. Yeah.

We were working on these films. I wanted them to feel what we, that our feel is a gesture. And we wanted to dialogue also with our time. You know, we wanted to capture the fears and the dreams that we have nowadays. Hopefully. hopefully in 20 years people will watch Sirata will say this film was talking about something from his time

how much of what you put on the page actually turned out in the film were you very close to what you wrote through? Yeah totally the script is 50 pages it doesn't mean that it didn't take time to wrote I mean we were working for 10 years

in the script but for me less pages better script. Why? Because we have a radical trust in the tools, in the cinematic tools of expression, you know. Cinema has a particular way to evoke things, to say things. And so it's a balance my scripts between dialogues and things that you want to say, but also images that wants to evoke things, you know. And yes, it was a really technique. shooting to Hansbury you, only seven weeks, 35 days. So you cannot improvise.

We have a lot of sequences, action sequences, so that they are difficult to shoot. Yeah. Sometimes orthodox script writers, they tell me that there is no script in my films. And I take this as a compliment, you know, because you have to hide the proof of the crime, you know? What do you see?

The, this is the, um, this mark, you know? The fingerprints. The fingerprints when you commit a crime, you know. In art, it's, you have to hide, you know, your intention. Yeah, I think that you have an amazing ability to shock. You know, you really took my breath away a couple of times in the film. And I see a lot of movies and I know a lot of where most movies are going, I feel like. And so maybe that's some of what you're describing, that there's this ability to,

I feel like part of the success of the film from my perspective is that it feels like you're finding it as it's going. Because the characters are finding, they're on this journey and they're finding something like life, sure. Like life? I mean, in life, it's like this. I mean, you start the day on a comedy and you finish on a drama or you are depressed and suddenly you get, you fall in love, you know. And life never calls you and tells you, Sean, be careful tomorrow, you're going to have a test, you know. And we like crisis. We like crisis.

Crisis is the way that life has to shake us, to make us grow, to make us look inside. And this film has also the ability. I have a lot of relations with psychonalysts and psychotherapist. And the film makes something. that these people makes in therapy that is to suspend your rational side of the brain, you know, in order that other level of perceptions emerge. Sirat is a film that you watch with the body,

not with the brain. You feel it. But I think that this is the essence of cinema, you know? Now, obviously, with all. the series and all the influence that the television has in cinema, there are a lot of films that they don't have. Not one image, not one that penetrates you, that shakes you, that touch you, you know.

But this is the essence of cinema. I mean, yesterday at the launch nominees, a lot of people tells me, wow, the images are still in me after three, four months watching the film. or but and I like they say this to me but come on this is the essence of cinema every film has to provoke this on you you are going to a theater you know that is a kind of spaceship where i mean and we had all of us this experience going to a cinema and get transformed when you go outside the cinema you feel wow you feel um a fever in your body right it's interesting that you say that too and you use the word provoked and I wanted to ask you about that.

So some of the criticisms that come in on the film are that it is a provocation, that it is a manipulation almost of your expectations of your feelings, but you don't feel that. No, I didn't read much these critics. Okay. Well, I'm curious how you respond to hearing that.

That's your critic. No, no, this is something that I've read. But I did feel, I said violated because specifically watching the car go over the ledge, which I will not going off the mountain. I will not forget that. While watching the film for the first time, and I watched it for a second time last night,

I was struck, very, very hit hard by that. That image and that feeling in Sergei's just his face looking over the edge of the mountain. But, you know, that is a thing that it feels like a choice being made. In a film that is otherwise, this kind of like, you know, you've really lulled us into this sense of

this journey, you know, and there's confusion and there's frustration on the journey, but it is not this violent feeling of shock and pain, that you thrust into the middle of it. Yeah, I mean, I'm living on a world where innocent people dies, you know, and it's something that we have to be confronted, you know. As I say before, we have to learn to die before dying. I mean, if you want to be more free and more emancipated,

if we want to suffer more, it's good medicine, you know, watching films like Sirat. I mean, it's, I think that more you are. confront yourself to this less fears you are going to have at the same time I think that thanks to cinema

we feel that we love these people we are not Syrat doesn't have a skepticism or cynicism I mean we are shooting these people with a lot of love and this is obvious I mean the way they take care of the others

the values they have you know, this is something that we have in Western countries. We are too worried about death on a traditional country or from a traditional or spiritual perspective,

to die is not a problem. You die when you have to die. The question is, how do we die? Are we dying with dignity? Protecting our values or not. And the characters in Syrat they die with dignity, I think. And also, they provoke things on a certain way, you know.

I mean, also thanks to the use of the sound and the music, you know, I think that there is a balance. Obviously, you know, I don't know if you've done up a ceremony, it's painful. When you make a ceremony, you have to look inside and it's not cool sometimes. Yeah, yeah. The medicine, it's bitter, you know? But we had the capacity to put a little bit of honey in the edge of the glass. So you drink the medicine of Syrat, thanks to, yeah, I think. I'm curious about the music and the sound design, because it does, it's part of what lulls us a little bit into this sense of, I don't know,

Not what you expect from rave music, but there is a pulse, a heartbeat, a kind of like a consistent, almost calming feeling to the score at times as we're going through the film. And then it does ratchet up and we become more tense throughout it. But was all of the music written after the film was shot? Was there any conversation beforehand?

How did that work? So first, I was dancing these images that I had at the beginning. So music is really related from the beginning, electronic music. The way I write my scripts is really atmospheric, like music. And I always add links from music, you know, in my script. So, and I did a casting of musician, and Kandrin Rai was perfect. I mean, he's extremely talented.

And we had the chance to work one year before the starting of the shooting. I really wanted to have the mood of the film, you know, work before. And that was the goal, you know, to make images that you could hear and to make music and sounds that you can watch, you know, to really build on a sculpture real organic. I think Sirat is sorcery, a sorcery, you know. I mean, images, the proportions, it's really are alive, you know, the grain of the 16 millimeter, the distortion of the electronic music.

You know, yes, it was luxury to work in that way. Did you have, were you making images based on the music that you had heard that he had composed? No, we didn't change much the script after having the music. We were editing, we found obviously different connections between the images. Yes. the plan that we had with the music was at the beginning to feel something more cathartical

the techno, the kick, you know, it's more physical. But slowly, the adventure, the film is becoming more metaphysical, you know, and so we are more with sounds more ethereal, transcendental, you know. We are approaching sacred music at the end of the film.

So the ceremony, it's tough. Yeah. But at the end, someone gives you an orange juice. I feel like part of the reason why some Western audiences, who are very cynical, maybe struggle to confront some of the things that you're doing in the film, is because also there's just a lack of spirituality too in our culture, like a waning spirituality.

And that also, you know, this movie's kind of communing with something bigger than itself, right? It's a mirror. And obviously, human beings. beans, what we do when we don't want to watch inside, what we do is a projection. We project outside what we don't want to see. And listen, I think that Siratra sends the category of I like or I don't like. You know, as an author, when I even, when I listen to people who doesn't like it, the way they speak about it, I know we did well. It still hit them. Yes, yes.

It's healing something, it's provoking something. But again, on a good way, I mean, it's certified as a good medicine by people who knows about it. Let me ask you a simple question. There's a rising trend in movies in the last few years of filmmakers waiting until long into the film to reveal the title of the film, the title card of the film. You wait 32 minutes before saying, this is Sarat. Okay. Why do you do that? What is the intention there?

No, there is no intention. You know, I don't work all the time. I'm a thinker, as you see, but I'm not working. I don't put my head everywhere when I'm working, making films. You know, I trust my taste. You know, if it's tasty, I'm going on a good direction. because the taste is really related with your unconscious. So, you know, that sequence we come from the Quran and we go to the techno.

That sequence is really sensorial, you know, and we are feeling a lot of things. It's a sequence where they desert on a way, you know, they are on the road and they go to the desert, you know, and the title is like, you have a feeling of the adventure starts. go. That's exactly what it is. With the speed, you know, we, you feel, okay, these people are going to transcendental trip, you know. I like that a lot. How do you think about building and releasing tension in the story? Are you thinking strategically? Are you thinking emotionally? You know, is it because the film has been compared to some of the movies that you talked about. The film that I see it compared to the most often is sorcerer. I don't know if that's a movie that you had watched in preparation for this. But, you know, those are movies that are really kind of ramping

things up and getting everybody very involved and then there's a big release and then we go to the next episodes so to speak in the film. Are you thinking that much like a diagram when you're working on it? Yeah. We, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, in our films like operas. And so we are thinking on the energy, you know, of the sequences and, and so how to go to the next, uh, block. I mean, it's something alive a film, you know. You want to build a kind of line that is tense ready to, you know, and we didn't want it to make a long film.

I had two and a half hours of a cut. Yeah, a cat, but we really wanted to have more tension, you know, and more, yeah. So this ceremony, money, it's intense, so longer could be bad. Yeah, I think it's where it is, is very effective. What do you make of how the movie's been received? Because, you know, you've brought many films to Cannes in the past.

You know, you won a prize there this year. But the film is really connected with people in the United States and a way that I would not have expected. I saw it over the summer. Thank you. I liked it, but I think I doubted maybe just the tastes of the common awards voter. You know, we'll see how much audiences will get invested in it. But it is that thing that you were describing of like, people don't forget the images, you know,

and it makes an impression in a way that some films just kind of wash away quickly. Are you surprised that it is penetrated this way? Obviously, you are surprised because even if your intention of this, you never know. But we radically trust on spectators. We radically trust on the relation between an image, sound, and the body of the spectator. And we radically trust on theaters. The combination of these three things makes, I mean, we are cinephile. We felt this, you know, with the films from the masters.

But you never know. I did also the film with a, I mean, I wanted to make a popular film, you know. That's the honey, you know, in the edge of the, you know, the genre. We were studying these films, you know, like, why, what? Why did you want to make a popular film? Because we want to serve. Because we want to make, I mean, I don't, I'm not interested. It's my fourth film.

All the films goes to Cannes. I get awarded there, but I'm not interested to be on a kind of scene, close scenes, you know. I mean, to make a film is something really extreme. so obviously you want it's part of a mission you know obviously there is also an erotic side you know I mean you are looking for love

but there is it's we really want to we want to wake up us and the spectator to you know making making this we want to elevate the level of conscience we want to heal I think cinema

can heal the collective imaginary you know we are on a moment with a lot of fears. That's the probing in our society, amount of fears. Everybody has fears and everybody is suffering. There is a collective wound

and it's good that cinema heals slowly. This wound and I think that on a subtle way, Sirat makes it. Your sincerity is bracing. I'm not used to engaging with this so directly if I'm being totally honest with you. Do you know what you're doing next? Have you started ready to?

I wanted to say you also that we are talking about life and death, you know. We are talking about family. We are not talking about it. I don't like this expression. I mean, we evoked these things, view-filled these things, and that's why it's connecting.

In France, it's the, we did 800,000 expectators, you know. And in Spain, half million. I mean, it's, yeah, the film, people, I think people are tired to watch the same films. Mm-hmm.

You know, and this is the future of cinema. You know, to, I'm not saying films like Syrat, but to remember people that a theater is a place for transformation, you know. I wanted to add something because audiences are really important for me. Also, I wanted to dialogue with young audiences. You know, I was 20 years old and I was totally lost. And cinema art was something that really connects me, you know, work. me. And so I wanted to do the same. And we are doing this. We are connecting with these audiences and I'm so happy for it. It's amazing. We end every episode of this show by asking filmmakers, what is the

last great thing they have seen? Have you seen anything that has moved you? So I watched the film from Jafar Panahi. It was just an accident. And I just watched it three days ago. And I really loved it. He's one of the... contendants. I won't say content because everybody wins, you know. You're both in the race for best international feature. Yes. I mean, whatever. We are sharing a beautiful trip and we are winners, all of us. What did you like about the film? So I like it because the film has a lot of mercy on a moment that it's really necessary to understand that everybody are suffering, that people who provokes suffering

is because they are suffering. They suffer. You know, it's a film in Iran. You will see someone who... You will see the guy who torture and the guy who is tortured. And I mean, it's... We have to give good news.

We are on a moment that filmmakers, we have to give good news and to, on a moment that, you know, is necessary, you know, love and light. Oliver, thanks for doing the show. Thank you. Very kind. Thank you to Joanna Robinson. Thank you to Katie Rich. Thank you to the very striking Oliver Lachey. Thanks to C.R.

Yeah. Our homie. Thanks to all the real Oscar heads out there who felt seen during that draft. You seem to feedbacks could be good. I mean, it always is. Have we done a bad episode yet? Yeah. Have we ever aired?

Everyone agrees. This was a three-hour episode. Do you feel good about that? Apparently, people only complain when the episodes are too short. I don't hear any of the complaints, so I would never know. Why? Is that because you're deaf? What's the issue?

To feedback. Later this week, we will be returning to garbage crime. Sierra and I, we have a text to examine in Crime 101, and we will be looking at it. And I think what we're going to do is the post-heat crime movie. Every movie that has heat in it. I'm looking forward to listening to this. I will see Crime 101 on my own time and then probably get a laser on my face.

Very cool. Well, enjoy your week off. And we'll see you later this week.