The Big Picture - The Robert Redford Hall of Fame

Episode Date: November 28, 2025

Sean and Amanda are joined by Tracy Letts to cover the monumental work of legendary actor Robert Redford. They celebrate the star’s illustrious career, share their personal relationship to his work, and build his Hall of Fame.  Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guest: Tracy Letts Producer: Jack Sanders Research: Brantley Palmer Shopping. Streaming. Celebrating. It’s on Prime. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Get no frills, delivered. Shop the same in-store prices online and enjoy unlimited delivery with PC Express Pass. Get your first year for $2.50 a month. Learn more at pceexpress.ca. Feeling festive? Catch classic holiday favorites, like Home Alone, the Santa Claus, and Die Hard,

along with holiday episodes from Family Guy, Abbott Elementary, and more with Hulu on Disney Plus. From festive Disney flicks to binge-worthy Hulu originals, Hulu on Disney Plus is your home for the holidays. Celebrate the season with Hulu, available on Disney Plus in Canada. I'm Sean Fennessee. And this is the Big Picture at Conversation Show about Robert Redford.

Tracy Letts is here. I am. Hi. Hello. You're here to just be a podcaster. That's all I do. You're not selling anything. No. You're not promoting anything. You're not here to talk about physical media. You're not here to talk about your life. You're here to talk about a filmmaker, an actor, a Hollywood legend. Why are you here? This is my job. Okay. My job is a physical media collector, third chair on the big picture. Bon vivant, and as a hobby, I occasionally write a play or appear in a film. But this is my job.

I'm doing my job and I've done the work. Welcome back to work. Amanda, how are you feeling about the work today? I'm a bit nervous because before this recording, Tracy indicated to me that he watched multiple episodes of Robert Redford's television work. I have at least one I would like to discuss. I have been in the minds doing the Redford work. I have seen a lot of things,

but I did not make it to the TV episodes. So I'm starting out daunted. A couple of good ones. Just a sampling. I did not see all of Robert Redford's TV work. Just a sampling. Okay. Well, that should give you some indication

of what we're attempting to do here, which is we are going to talk about in celebration of the life and work of one of the biggest careers in Hollywood history. I think right after he passed, we talked about it, and I said, But I can't think of someone who had actually a bigger impact on the industry at large in that era, in part because of the multiple different roles that he played, first as a star, then as a filmmaker, then as a sort of activist and shepherd for lots and lots and lots of great artists over the last 40-plus years of the Sundance Institute. So talking about him is challenging, but let's just try to have a general conversation at first.

Do you remember the first time you saw him? Yeah, I was eight years old. and I saw him in the Sting in the movie theater, 1973. I'm born in 65. Redford became a big star. The breakout was really Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid in 69. So when I was growing up, he was a movie star, maybe the biggest movie star,

certainly one of the biggest movie stars. And I have a very clear memory of seeing the Sting in a packed movie theater on its initial release. when an audience collectively realized, oh, we've been conned to, right, the great moment in that movie. And, yeah, it's stuck with me all these years. You know, I should also say in this year, in 2025, Diane Keaton, Gene Hackman, Robert Redford, all these people have died. And these were really, they were the movie stars of my youth.

Now, Redford may be more of a star as opposed to kind of character. character actor that Gene Hackman was or specific kind of movie star Diane Keaton was for a while until she broke out and became even bigger. But they were people that we saw regularly on the big screen. So to us, Redford, when we were coming of age, was sort of like a part of the furniture of Hollywood. He was, do you remember the first time that you remember seeing him? So yes, the first time I saw him was also in The Sting, though not in 1973. And it's because when I was studying, the piano. I learned to play the entertainer. And so my parents

were like, hey, we've got a film for you. I do also think that my mother was like, and it stars Paul Newman and Robert Redford. So it was presented to me in that context. And I was too young for it and thought it was boring, which is what happened with all of the films that my

parents showed me. But I hooked into him and then even in the 90s, he was still playing like handsome older, you know, golden fox, heartthrobs. So I guess he was part of the furniture, but my first memories after The Sting are like up close and personal

and the Horse Whisperer and all of these things where he is a, he's slightly older, but he's still got it. And the movies know that he still has it and are built around his appeal as an older leading man. Yeah, and he maintained that aura as a big star all the way through the 90s. I mean, every time he has. had a movie come out, it was cover of entertainment weekly and big deal in the trades, whether it was a big hit ultimately or not. I can't remember for sure, but I have to assume that the natural is the first time that I saw him as a baseball at old boy watching it on cable

more than likely at like five or six. And I got to say, as a baseball addled boy, even at the time, I remember thinking, this guy's awfully old to be a ball player. And he was awfully old. in that story, even in the context of that story, he's awfully old. And yet, you know, that's very much a forever movie that is a big part of his legacy. In doing these halls of fame, you might think, oh, the natural, that's a no-brainer. It's got to go in. This is a hard to... Really hard.

There's like 25 locks for the Hall of Fame. This is incredibly difficult. Including basically an entire decade. So that's going to be tricky as well if we want to be, quote, represent. as opposed to... The decade in which you first saw him, he's making some of the most fun, entertaining, and in some cases, deep movies of the 1970s.

There's a run that starts with Butch and Sundance in 1969 and ends with all the president's men in 76. And in that span of eight years, he made 13 films. He's the lead in all of those films. And you could construct the Hall of Fame out of those 13 movies. You could select the best 10 movies from that 13 and have a Hall of Fame.

No, obviously, we'll go beyond that. But, I mean, it was quite a run. Pretty crazy. So what do you think making it? Do you think of him as a special actor? We know he's a special star, right? He's handsome. He's got this incredible still charisma.

But as an actor, how do you think about him? I think he's underrated. I think he's very deeply skilled. I think he was so smart about what he chose to do, right? He just didn't put himself in position to fail very often as an actor. He was always taking on things he could do. There's always a kind of, well, I guess a reluctance off-screen,

but also a bit of reluctance on-screen. They teach you as an actor, right? You have lots of marvelous things to say. You just choose not to say them. And I think that Redford really exemplified that. He often appears to be the smartest person on screen, and yet he is often silent, thoughtful, taciturn. I think he's a great actor.

I think he probably had more range than he showed us, but he wasn't going to step outside of that range where it's not a question just of comfort is where he thought that he would be believable to an audience. Interesting, you really have to know yourself to become a star. He really must have known himself because in the beginning of his career, he does a lot of stage work and comedy. And then, you know, you look at the last 30 plus years of his career, there's very little of that.

What do you like about him as an actor? There is a confidence to him that is different from the, you know, the typical I am a leading man or I am an actor and I want this attention and I'm comfortable with, you know, I'm seeking this out. to me sometimes that is born out of some insecurity and you feel that acting is trying to get people to like you or validate your feeling, you know, that there is like a hunger or a vulnerability can motivate a really good actor. And Robert Redford is just very clearly I'm good. Like I know where I am. I know myself. Um, whatever's, whatever's going on is locked

away in me. And there is that discomfort with being watched, but I also think he's incredibly good at being watched in a way that most people are not. He, again, he understands the power that he commands, and a lot of his films use it in smart ways, including with, you know, women just absolutely losing their minds. we'll talk about the way we were at some point. I asked you guys both to prepare it, but that is a really incredible movie about Robert Redford

and understands his appeal and the way that everyone looks at him in a way that shaped the rest of his career. So, I mean, I also obviously think of him as being just incredibly handsome, but he does and holds on to it for a long time. And comfortable in that and, like, uses it. He has an inordinate number of movies in which his character's name or nickname is in the title of the movie,

which I think confers something about him. You know, he is the Sundance Kid. He is the natural. He is the candidate. He is Jeremiah Johnson. Like, he is the horse whisperer. Like, it kind of recurs over and over again. And that is, like, some of that is star management from a career perspective where it's like, not only is my name above the title, but I'm the reason to go.

And some of it is also this kind of like, I think really smart idea of myth making that he's interested in. Or like he understands old Hollywood and he understands what he's capable of. Ethan Hawk was here actually earlier today, but it will have aired a few weeks earlier. And he repeated a story, which many people repeated when Redford passed, about this conversation between Mike Nichols and Redford when he was casting the graduate. And Mike Nichols had wanted Redford for who's afraid of Virginia Woolf. and Redford said, I don't want to do it. Had not liked the play. Yes, did not like the play.

And then he went back to Nichols because he wanted to do the graduate. He wanted to play Benchard and Braddock. And Nichols asked him what it felt like to strike out with a girl. Went to be told no when you ask someone out on a date. And his reply was essentially, what do you mean?

Because he never struck out. Because he looks like Robert Redford, because he is Robert Redford. And so at probably 14 years old, he had a kind of inborn confidence that allowed him to be somehow like more strategic and maybe more comfortable in himself. And I think a lot of the actors that you're describing, obviously he didn't get the part of Benjamin and the graduate, which is great. They worked out for everybody. And he and Nichols, they never, they never got together. Well, barefoot in the park on stage.

Right, that's right. but he is a he's very unique because you would think for example paul newman who we talked about earlier this year on the show would be tremendously confident and was in some ways but was also deeply insecure right as a star and angry and you know struggled with addiction and had a lot of demons and redford definitely there's a darkness to him right and he definitely has some personal struggles but like he didn't talk about those sorts of things very much he clearly put it into the work but didn't feel comfortable making it metaphorical right as a Celebrity lived in Utah, didn't live in Hollywood?

He knew, again, he knew what worked. He had such self-knowledge about what worked for him, how he could help tell the story. You know, good actors use as much of themselves as they can. You don't reach outside of yourself until you need to, until you have to. You know, there's some great movie stars who have never, the performance is the same throughout. Now, it's not the case with Robert Redford. His, there is, in fact, variety. And really cramming for this podcast over the last few weeks, really, the performance he gives in our souls at night is actually a very different performance than his Dan Rather in truth.

This is at the end of his career. And he, you could certainly forgive him for just kind of mailing it in or I'm just going to give you Robert Redford here. He doesn't. I mean, there is a distinction between those characters. So that self-awareness is not only one of the things that makes him such a compelling actor, but also the way he constructed such an amazing career. You wouldn't know this because you haven't seen the film, but the same is true of his work in Avengers Endgame. You know, he really is giving a different kind of performance in that movie. You know, so I crammed really hard for this, and I came up about six movies short. The exact same number I came up short. That's very funny.

About six movies short, and I'm afraid that the Avengers movies were... I can speak to that. Don't worry. Okay. That's the thing. I also knew it was like, I don't need to talk about it. These guys watch this movie every night. They know all about it.

It's Amanda's favorite movie of the century, actually, which will be revealed later on this podcast. I remember everything that happened in it as well. Redford lived to 89, and he worked all the way through his life and worked quite a bit in the last 10 years of his life. I was really surprised at that. Yeah. He seemed to get reinvigorated for acting and also maybe needed some money. It's possible that both things are true,

but it's interesting because he has this remarkable run in the 70s, and then in the 80s he makes four movies, and then in the 90s he makes five movies. Now, he's directing films at that time, but he, like, really slows down on the star trajectory and seems more comfortable doing something once every two or three years. But in the 2000s, he's really reinvigorated. So I say that to say, we have a lot of films to go

through. Is there anything in particular that you want to cite about his life and career before we get into that conversation? Well, look, I don't know how much we're going to talk about things, some of the other aspects of his life and career. But the truth is we're having this star conversation. All right. As an exercise, I say to you, make the list of the biggest movie stars of all time from from one to a hundred and each obviously it's a very subjective list everybody in right because there are too many variables in a list like that you don't know if uh what somebody else finds sexy where where the sex appeal is where do you put somebody like marcello mustriani right who's a great movie star some of the greatest movies ever made but his movies

never made any money in the united states i mean so there are all sorts of factors that you're balancing. But I promise you that Robert Redford is coming in on anybody's list in the top 20, certainly in the top, certainly in the top 20, maybe in the top 10, maybe on Mount Rushmore, right? He's there. He's there in that discussion. And we can have that discussion and leave out Sundance, his producing credits, his activism, especially for environmental justice, Native American issues, you can leave all of that stuff. I mean, Sundance alone would put him right at the, really at the top of his craft, at the top of...

He dramatically altered independent film in America. I mean, I was going to ask whether Sundance is eligible as a concept. We're already in so much pain trying to cut this down to 10. The idea of adding an institute and festival to the list makes my head hurt. Now, I want to pitch an idea that I have. Okay. Now, I'm going to claim the credit and the title of this idea, but maybe it can be something that we share. But I wanted to do Sean's Corner, Sean's Alley, and that there are titles that go into this space that I know are not going to make it into the Hall of Fame.

But I want to open a little wing in the janitor's closet that's like, these movies are over here. And if you want them to be a part of the experience, you just need to use the right key and go in through that door. So you're putting Sundance in Shaw's Alley? No, no, no, I'm not putting Sundance there. I mean, Sundance gets its own museum. That's the thing about Sundance. And the activism as well, and he's fascinating in that way, too, because he is sort of George Clooney before George Clooney

where people in the 80s were like, you should run for president. And he was, you know, repulsed by that idea. But he represented something, I think, ideologically and emotionally about the country that he was purposefully trying to communicate an idea of decency in the world, in his characters and in the work that he did when he spoke publicly. But he also was, he was a tough guy. He was a hard guy. And there are a lot of stories about working with him over the years where he's very specific and very intentional and not always easy to work with.

And so you can also read a lot about the ways in which he made those decisions and earned this gravitas and legendary status. Fascinating dude. Really fascinating, dude. I don't know that I fully understand Sean's corner. Don't worry. And it's over there. You were gesturing to like a little space. Yeah.

This is the little alley. Do we have access to Sean's corner? Well, if you're nice to me in this conversation, maybe I'll lend you a key. Well, do you want for Newman, we were so overwhelmed by the amount of work that we invented. I think that it was a blue and each person gets a blue. Would you like to institute that? I think we should have three blues. Okay.

Three individual personal picks that exist outside of the green delineation in the Hall of Fame. So maybe they start yellow, and then when we go back through the yellows, we can say, oh, that's my blue. Now, can we share a blue? What if two of us have a blue, but we decide it's not going on all of things? We certainly can. I guess we could share it, but maybe we could strategize. This isn't a draft.

We're not competing against each other. No, of course not. So then we can share the wealth. I feel great about it. I have to remind myself, this is all made up. Right. You know, I do too. That's unfortunately the problem.

with my life. A couple of quick notes about his career before we get into it. Only nominated for one Best Actor Academy Award. That was for the film that you saw in movie theaters. The Sting, honestly, a very strange nomination relative

to the history of his career. Is he even the lead of that movie? People just really, really liked the Stick. They did. They really liked it. He did win Best Director in his career. We will get to the film for which he won.

He was nominated once more for Best Director and also nominated for Best Picture one year. One of his films won Best Picture, the Academy Award. He was given an honorary Academy Award in 2002. But, you know, he's not celebrated in the same way that we think of the great screen icons

where they get two or three Academy Award wins for their performances. He didn't have that reputation. And honestly, critics were not really super fond of him. They often criticized them as being very wooden and internal and quiet and very full of himself. That was something you find in a lot of criticism about his movies. It's a little strange because he sure made those people a lot of goddamn money. And one of the amazing things going through these movies is to look at the box office. Even movies that you go, well, that was a failure, that was marginal.

And you go, oh, no, the Great Gatsby was actually one of the biggest hits of that year. I mean, he made people a lot of money in this business. Yeah, that's an interesting movie to talk about, too, in terms of his persona at that time and how he pivots away from that. But I don't know, should we jump in? Should we start talking about films? That's great. Let's grade it. You know, he started in the theater.

He did. And you know anything about his work in the theater? Anything notable that you want to say? Well, I know that his first play was a tall story on Broadway, which was written by Lindsay and Krause and directed by Joshua Logan. And they got him because he could play basketball. They needed real basketball players, but he was only 5'10, but he looked credible, dribbling a basketball across the court.

And then they made a movie of Tall Story, which is not a memorable thing, but he's uncredited in that film, his first movie with Jane Fonda. Not his last. He... When he talks about his past, he has a kind of remove from the idea

of wanting to become an actor. He talked about how when he was a teenager, he made fun of actors, he made fun of the theater, and then he got to be older, and saw himself as a more sophisticated artist type, moved to France, studied painting and art, and then realized how broke he was going to be

and came back to the United States and California and really started working, spent time in New York, worked in the theater, then started booking TV jobs. And he pretty steadily works in episodic television for four or five years. And Amanda has not seen any of this work. Yeah.

But you've seen some of it. I saw in the presence of my anemones, which is a Playhouse 90, it's actually the last Playhouse 90. It was the last episode of that TV series. And it's written by Rod Serling and it's directed by, name escapes me, Fielder Cook, directed by Fielder Cook. And he's in there with some heavy hitters. He's in there with Charles Lawton and Arthur Kennedy. And he's playing a German soldier. He's actually doing a German accent. That was the concede at the time, right?

He's doing German-accented English. He falls in love with the Jewish girl in the Warsaw Ghetto and has pangs of guilt, you know. And he's, I don't think anybody ever really did that. German soldiers fall in love with Jewish girls and have pangs of guilt. I don't think that really happened. But that's the conceit of the TV show anyway, written by Rod Serling. entirety of the German infantry?

Is that the side you want to jump in on? Not defending anyone. Never say never. And I have to say it's a credible performance. He has some good scenes with George McCready, George McCready, the bad guy from Paths of Glory, and they have some great scenes. George McCready, a really bad Nazi.

I mean, the other side of the coin of Redford's Nazi. And they have some good scenes together. It's good. It's a credible performance. he's, like I say, he's in there with some real players. By the way, that same year, he's in the case of the treacherous toupee. That's his Perry Mason episode, and I have to say, that's a real dud. You can miss that.

That's sad. It's a great title. He's also in the Ice Man Cometh, directed by Sidney Lumet, and Jason Robards, who was our foremost interpreter of O'Neill. And Redford played Don Parrott in that, which is a fun part. relatively speaking, an Iceman Cummoth. And so he's doing, the stuff he's doing on TV is real stuff. One thing that's probably fairly easy to track down for listeners of the show that I always like is he's in a very memorable and excellent episode of The Twilight Zone called Nothing in the Dark.

I don't know. Have you ever seen this episode? I did. I watched it in preparation for this podcast, yes. So not written by Rod Sterling. This episode's written by George Clinton Johnson. But he got the job because he had done. on the previous Rod Serling script. Rod Serling remembered him when they were casting this. And in this episode, he plays a man who arrives at the door of an old woman who has been evading death most of her life.

And she has a great deal of paranoia, and he is the voice on the other side asking to come in. And he's asking to come in because he needs help. He needs something from her. And it is just this two-hander between these two characters. I haven't seen it in some time, but I remember him being, I guess I can spoil this. You can spoil the year old episode

is he's deaf. Yeah. And he's come to Fetra. And that's the big reveal at the end of the episode. But it is like, I mean, I'm sure I saw this when I was a teenager in discovering the Twilightlight Zone, but I was mesmerized. And mesmerized my hymn and his kind of serpentine charm

in this part. He's really great. And you could tell in 1964, this guy's got it. This guy's got the juice. He's really good. It's a really good episode of the Twilight Zone. Directed by Lamont Johnson,

who went on to direct some good movies as well. I also saw First Class Muleak, which is an episode of Route 66, which is also a bit of a dud. Okay. It's too bad. But Martin Balsam is in it. He would cast in all the presidents, Ben,

a few years later. Oh, he had also auditioned to be the lead in Route 66, one of the leads, and Martin Milner got the part, so they remembered him and brought him back to be a guest star on the show. memorable sliding door if he had gotten that part what movies would he have not appeared in let's talk about them yes because this is a movie podcast yes

I'm glad you guys watch some TV wow this is what it's like we got judged this is if you want if you want third chair this is what it's like you I respect he's just like talking about the twilight zone again the greatest television show you already mentioned the uncredited part so we won't talk about that

there's only one incredibly small early film that is happening while he's doing this stage work called War Hunt, which I have not seen, but Amanda says she has seen. I watched it for this podcast because I also did my homework and it was a film. It was fine. Okay. It is, he is a soldier in the Korean War,

and this time he is once again, like, the quote unquote good American soldier kind of pitted against this psychotic, literally American soldier, who goes out at night just like killing people. Is that John Saxon? Yes. Yeah. And Sidney Pollock is also in this film as an actor, which is where they met. Redford, he's fine.

He's good. It's sort of surprising that this is a 1962 film and it is more anti-war than I associate with Hollywood movies at that time. So I give it credit for that. It's not like hugely nuanced, but that's okay. And Redford is a side part. So that's red. Any war hunt thoughts?

No. Okay. 1965 inside Daisy Clover. I'm going to back up a little bit to Bearfoot in the Park, which he does on stage in 1963. Great. So he's got a film, just dipping his toe in a film career. He's working in TV, and he gets a chance to do Barefoot in the Park by Neil Simon, directed by Mike Nichols, a very slight piece. I know this because I did barefoot in the park for four months touring Norway and Sweden high schools when I was 20 years old.

So that's incredible. What? What time of year? Was I touring in Norway and Sweden, yes. I was the fall and winter. And you played, you played Paul. I did. I did.

Wow. At 20 years old. I did. Yeah. Is Paul a lawyer? He's a lawyer. He's a lawyer. He's a lawyer.

He's a long time. 40 years, in fact, since I did it. But he does it with Elizabeth Ashley in the original production. Now, Mark Harris wrote a book about Mike Nichols, and he interviewed Robert Redford for his book. And then after Mr. Redford passed, Mark Harris wrote some stuff he didn't put in the book, and he put it on his social media account. May I do a little short reading? Please do. So this is Robert Redford talking to Mark Harris.

We tried out in New Haven. Now, I was not sure about my own self at that time. So when I was called out to do the play, part of me was resisting everything, everything. My thought was, I'm going to show everyone why I shouldn't be in this play. When we opened in New Haven, I basically just laid down. I said, okay, I'm going to be so bad, they're going to get rid of me. So I got terrible reviews. Elizabeth Ashley did well.

They all loved her, and she was great. But my perversity had everyone down on me. I thought, well, this is good. Now they will replace me. Mike took me to lunch and said, look, I think I know. know what you're doing and it's not going to work. No matter how bad you try to behave, I'm not going to replace you. So I said, well, I'm now going to get worse. I decided I'm not going to let him win this one. I'm going to show him. I'm going to be so bad, he's got to replace me. So then we went to

Washington and the reviews were even worse. He took me to lunch and he said, pretty funny. You might as well give it up because it's not going to work. So the next night, I guess it was, I don't know what town it was, I laid down again, and he then told me something really interesting. He said, look, why don't you look at it this way? I think you're somebody that probably has some secrets that you keep hidden, and I wasn't aware of that. He said, why don't you search yourself, search for the things you hide? What if you use that for the character, the idea that you carry secrets around? I said, oh, okay. So that night, when I went on, I didn't say my lines. I just whistled. The audience didn't know what the fuck was going on. What in the hell

was going on? And I just whistled and whistled and whistled to a point where I suddenly felt so comfortable that I was doing what I wanted to do. In such a weird way, I suddenly came alive. From that point on, I came up to par. I just thought that was an interesting story, given what we're talking about his withholding nature. I think it also speaks very much to Mike Nichols' his superpowers and why he was such a gifted director, which was not because he knew where to put the camera or had to light a scene, but because he could do that. There was a psychological power.

Robert Redford definitely had some secrets, and he's kind of like exploring those secrets in all of his films. Inside Daisy Clover, not the most secretive movie I've ever seen. A movie that announces itself in many ways, loudly and without... Did you watch Inside Daisy Clover? Yeah. What'd you think? I have to be honest.

You know, Robert Redford looks hands. Hands him in a tux, whatever. He seems somewhat miscast, and that's fine. And then I just spent my whole time being like, so what was up with Natalie Wood? Just, what was going on there? Well, she's just very miscast. Sure, yeah, and very beautiful.

But I just more meant, like, Natalie Wood was one of the great movie stars of the early 60s, and I've never understood it. She and Robert Redford went to the same high school together, and she had been kind of key. encouraging him and his acting career. Van Nuys, right? I think they were at Van Nuys High School. Yes.

And they have more than one appearance in movies together. There's some very amusing stuff about how Redford, with no disrespect, would often undermine his own access to a certain level. Like, Dory Share, the famous Hollywood executive, his son was one of his best friends. He was very connected growing up in Van Nuys to a lot of people in the business. So he was not some kid from nowhere. He was, he's a California guy. He's an L.A. guy.

And his relationship with Natalie Wood, his friendship with Natalie Wood, helps him a lot. This is not the last time they worked together. This movie is a pretty big bungle, in my opinion. It's meant to be this kind of Judy Garland-esque story about a young girl, a tomboy, who gets plucked out of obscurity to become a big Hollywood star by a Hollywood mogul played by Christopher Plummer one year after The Sound of Music. And Redford played. essentially like the match that is made for her

to become, you know, engaged and become a star. In the movie, the character is supposed to be gay, but Redford resisted that and the production of the film, and so you get this mishmash of like, it's unclear what the nature of their relationship is even supposed to be. Anyway, interesting movie Robert Mulligan directed it. I think it's the first movie he made after To Kill Mockingbird.

I think it is. And produced by Alan Pakula. Right. We'll come back to, who's very important, but you can see them for, at least. And this is when Pekula was working mostly as a producer, mostly for Molligan, I think, in the 60s.

Definitely not going in. No. I don't think Mr. Redford is bad in this film. I think he's, you know, it's the part that Kevin Klein would play 20 years later, right? The florid flights of fancy, and, you know, as

somebody said about Kevin Klein, it's like magic school is always part of the back story. Yeah. So I don't think that Mr. Redford's bad in it, but no, it's, the movie doesn't work. And the, the, the decision not to worry about the period, even though the movie is very clearly set in the 1930s, and yet nothing about it looks like the 30s, sounds like the 30s, the movie clips, the song she sings, none of it seems like the 1930s. It's weird, very odd choice. Yeah. I was baffled. Okay. Throughout.

I have not seen this next film. Situation hopeless, dot, dot, dot, dot, but not serious. which is a comedy that was based on a novel written by Robert Shaw, the Robert Shaw. That's the only interesting thing about it, I think. I mean, it does start Alec Guinness. Redford is, you know, the third or fourth lead. He doesn't have a huge part in the film. It's not good. Didn't watch it.

Oh, I watched it. Allig Guinness was funny. But it's, you know, it's the Alleghenus show. And they're kind of the unwitting, like, rubs who, who are the subject of his plotting and it's, I guess it's not that everyone's fine, no one's in danger really. This film made some years earlier

and then it was shelved and then released later, right? That's the story? Okay. Well, that's definitely not going in. No. Let's talk about 1966's... No, yes, 1966's this property is condemned, which is a Tennessee Williams play adapted. We return once again to Natalie Wood.

Tennessee Williams tried to take his name off of it. You can see why. Yeah. So interesting that he starts his career in this fashion as a film actor and is in a handful of duds. They are some duds, yeah. Screenplay by Francis Ford Copp. Yes. In part property is condemned.

Among like eight other people, right? Which is again part of the problem. Yeah, they really had to hammer down this, this filet-o fish. And it's his first collaboration with Sidney Pollock as actor-director. Right. And did Pollock come in late? What is the story? Isn't there a story?

Oh, I don't know. Was he always on this originally? This is also a strange movie about a woman working as a lady of the night and a representative from the railroads comes along. Sure, yeah. And he's got some big ideas and she's got some big ideas. And then her mom also has some big ideas. Yes, well, it is Tennessee Williams, after all. There is some existentialism in this story.

I didn't watch it. Did you guys watch it? I did. And again, this is, I think I watched it on the same JAG where I watched the other Natalie Wood film. And I was just kind of like, I don't really understand, like, what are we doing? You know, I did want to ask you about this. There is this stretch of Tennessee Williams adaptations from, like, roughly the mid-50s through late 60s. Right.

Some of his best-known work, a lot, some more obscure work, very few of them are very good. Why do you think that, obviously street-car is street-car, right? But, like, why do you think that it was so hard to translate Williams to the screen? Well, first of all, the poetry and the adult. nature of the plays. They were often cut up versions of themselves, right? They didn't, you know, that's not what actually happens in streetcar name Desire. And Tennessee took the check. He always took the check. They would cut him a check and he would take the check. And he didn't give a damn about the movies. That's ultimately what happened. He didn't care if they made bad

movies based on his plays. The plays were more important. But Williams himself was an important national figure. I mean, people understood that Tennessee Williams and Arthur Miller were, were, they were tops. And Williams was a, he was a very present cultural commentator. And the, the adult nature of, of those plays was, could be kind of scandalous. But the movies always left the interesting stuff out. So yeah, it's a lot of, I've, Not to name drop, I actually had a conversation with Warren Beatty about this very thing. When I was working with Annette Benning, and we were doing an Arthur Miller play, and we talked about this. And Warren, who had appeared in one of these Williams adaptations, talked about his frustration that Tennessee just took the check and walked away and didn't exercise any kind of creative control over the thing.

In other words, this property is condemned had to be so bad that Williams was actually moved to say, I'm taking my fucking name off of this. It's so bad. It's so funny, though, because it is a sort of right of passage for all of those screen stars of that time. You mentioned Beatty, Paul Newman, made a couple of these movies. Redford obviously made them.

Brando kind of sets the template in many ways. And most of them just do not work at all. It's an interesting little footnote. Would not recommend this movie. Okay, 1966 of The Chase. I know that you're interested in this film because you wrote about it on Letterboxed. I did.

Wow, look at you, reading my Letterbox reviews. Well, I love your work. I like the chase. I had not seen it before, and I find it pretty compelling. I mean, it doesn't work top to bottom, I don't think. I think there are issues with the thing, but I think that the Hortonfoot source material, what the movie concerns itself with, the idea of racism and fascism in this small community, the community representative of the larger community, right? And that Marlon Brando plays, he's John Proctor. He's the good guy at the center of this community who is going to fight these forces, fight the community for rule of law, for what he knows to be

right. And obviously, it's such a murderer's row of actors in this thing. Marlon Brando, Jane Fonda, E.G. Marshall, Angie Dickinson, Janice Rule, the great underrated Richard Bradford, Robert Duvall. I mean, do you watch this? I did. So with respect, I found it very dull. Me too. Well, when Jane Fonda is on screen, I'm very excited. I liked Janice Rule as well. She's very vivacious. Brando? How he's kind of... I actually thought he was a little Miss Cast. Yeah. Oh, man, I thought

Brando was, I just think he's so worlds beyond the other people in, I mean, just in terms of acting style. He's just at the forefront of what he's doing as an actor. I think I think,

when I think of him as an actor, I think of him as someone reckoning with moral gray, and he's so direct and forthright and, like, clean in this, at least his character is in this movie, that it didn't,

he seemed a little oddly out of place in this thing. But I will say, Redford is very interesting in this movie. He's really kind of flashing like action star chops in a way because he's an escaped convict and he's on the run and the film is kind of taking place in this bifurcated way where we're seeing this community reacting to this escaped convict.

There's all this talk about buber and buber that. And then when we see him, he's just trying to survive and he's leaping across trains and running through open fields and you can kind of see the guy who would become one of the more virile physical, you know, sportsman of Hollywood. Right. And he's pretty good in this. The scene where he finally makes it and he and Fonda meet up, like, they're in a junkyard or something.

And it's communicated what she's been doing while he's gone. He's really good in that. And, like, kind of takes the, you can see the emotion, but he also, like, takes the revelation on its, on its face. And they, like, they clearly have something. Fonda and Edward. There's a problem at the center of it, which is why is he trying to get back there? When as soon as he gets back there, he says, I've got to get out again. Yeah, no, I mean, it's a great point.

It's not sure what that's all about. James Fox is in this movie, and he's interviewed on the special features on the indicator disc, which is an excellent rendition. Do you have that one in Amanda? Yeah, I do. And I got you a second for Christmas. James Fox in his interview talks about when they were guys. gathering to do this movie. First of all, they're all in awe of Brando. They're all just bowing down to Brando. But beyond that, he mentions we knew we were told that Robert Redford

was the next big thing. We were told, we knew about him when he showed up that he was going to be a big deal. Well, this is really the last thing that he does that is kind of modestly received. Everything after this becomes sort of a big deal. In various ways. But this is also notable because it's the last movie Arthur Penn makes before he makes Bonnie and Clyde. And that is also a movie that basically changes the future of Hollywood. And Redford is operating right alongside that shift. So the next film he makes is Barefoot in the Park, an adaptation, directed by Gene Sacks, starring Jane Fonda again.

They work together again. I'm just not a big fan of this material. I don't think it's the best Neil Simon. It's so light. It just floats away. It's about a couple that lives on the... A sixth floor walk-up, I've lived on a sixth-floor walk-up. It's not pleasant.

I'm not sure if that's the premise of a film. Right. But I could, you know, newlyweds trying to make their way in the world. I think it's charming. They have great charm. I don't think it needs to go on the list, but it is very charming. No, the chase is not going in barefoot in the park. I don't think you're not going to make a case.

Not at all. Okay. It's the third time now that Robert Redford and Jane Fonda have worked together. Yes, but nonetheless. Elizabeth Ashley replaced by Jane Fonda for the film. Elizabeth Ashley had a film career. I think Elizabeth Ashley has written about, she felt that she was badly behaved during the show

and maybe that had something to do with her not getting the film. She did. They did not necessarily click. So there's a two-year gap and then we get Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid in 1969, which is one of the greatest movies ever made. That is a green. This is an automatic green. I'm not sure what level of conversation anyone would like to have about it.

I frequently, frequently, just if I'm feeling low, just pull up the two-minute clip of them arguing on the cliff before deciding to jump. It is one of my favorite movie moments ever. It's so good. And it is largely because of Redford. And it's, I just want to say about this, that I don't know that he ever specifically did a part like this ever again. That this very fine-grained combination of overconfidence and humor, he didn't really lean on that note too often. but he's really, really good at it. And this movie obviously works because of their chemistry.

Right. But it's a movie makes me smile. And he's very reactive in that moment, which I don't really associate with the rest of his career. He's usually setting the tone. But he and Newman are really going off each other. I also, in addition to that clip, the clip when they finally make it to Bolivia and he's just wandering around with all the goats yelling. I rewatched that again this morning. Just like, I just need to get in the vibe.

It's really, really funny. He doesn't yell very much in a movie. You know, this is a very unusual kind of thing for him, but he's really wonderful in this movie. This kicks off our relationship with George Roy Hill, which we will come back to as we go through the list. Any Sundance Kid thoughts? Look, it's just so self-evident. Again, like you said, there's not that much to say about it. If you don't like Butch Cassie and the Sundance Kid, something's wrong with you.

Probably don't like movies. You know, it is very much of its time in the, it has a kind of 1969 pop sensibility about it, right? suddenly there's a Bert Baccarac song playing in the middle of it. And even Mr. Redford writing about the movie or speaking about the movie said, I thought it was a mistake. I thought this is all wrong for this movie. When you watch the movie now, it does feel out of place, that particular segment of the movie.

But it's one of those things where sometimes an accepted piece of art, even in all of the attending cliches, still transcends. You can still look at the Mona Lisa and admire it, even though you've seen it reproduced on paper plates. There's still something. kind of profound about it beyond its commercialization. I think this is one of those movies. Well, it also, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid coming when it does, right?

The Western has been such an important part of movie history to this point, but it's being recontextualized a little bit, right, through the spaghetti westerns that have come out in the 60s, peck and paws right there in the middle of this. And there is kind of a shift in the consuming popular culture from the rural to the urban taking place around this time, right? All the rural shows, all the westerns get canceled. All the rural comedies, green acres, Beverly Hillbillies, all that stuff. It all gets, they just wipe all that stuff out and they replace it with all in the family and good times. We'll no longer be relevant, as Gil Scott Herron said.

There you go. Now, there was still an appetite for rural material going throughout the 70s, and Redford was somebody who was able to dip in and out of, to go from urban to rural. And also, I think Manola Dargis made this point in her appraisal of Redford in the New York Times. He's so comfortable with a male co-star and with the female co-star. That's not the case with a lot of movie stars. Some of them we think of primarily as, right, you don't think of a lot of the male stars that Richard Gere gets placed with, right? He's mostly opposite females in the movies he makes.

And then you could think of a host of actors who are more comfortable with male co-stars. Redford was able to shift back and forth very easy. Are you more comfortable with male or female co-stars? Is there another woman that we could have here? Can anyone find one? I don't see any here in the building today, unfortunately. Exactly. 1969. Tell them

Willie Boy is here, which is a movie I had not seen until yesterday. Okay. How did you track it down? I own it. You congratulations. So you could have called me up and could have called up the lending library. I googled it.

It was not available on streaming and then I said, okay, I'm going to leave it to the High Council. I assume you've seen this film. I also own it and I also watched it for this podcast. Shot before Butch Cassidy the Sundance Kid.

Released in the same year, and interestingly, he's essentially playing the Brando part in the Chase, where he is the moral sheriff searching for the escaped man who's played by Robert Blake in this film as a Native American.

Yeah, some really grotesque brown face. Pretty weird. The film is directed by... It's cool that you guys both on this. Well, we're completeists. Abraham Polonski, who was blacklisted, only directed two films in his career.

This is the first film he made after 25 years. And I thought it was a pretty interesting movie. I did too. I think it's a little bit rickety in the staging, but the performances are pretty good. I think Redford carries the movie pretty well. I like Catherine Ross as well. Grievous brown face.

Egregious. And Robert Blake was always a compelling actor until, you know, he murdered people. He was. He has a great screen presence, you know, and he's the titular Willie Boy in this movie. This is definitely not going in. But I think it's, if you like Redford, it's worth checking out for the completest. You guys are just absolutely veering through a lot on that one. Just talking truth.

Just talking truth. Based on a true story, too. That's right. Okay, 1969 Downhill Racer. Now, I'll foreground this by saying this is one of my favorite movies ever made. So it's really cool. I think that this is an utterly unique film, and I think it also speaks. immensely to what Redford is interested in

and how he made things happen. It's his first movie with Michael Ritchie. They go on to make a few more movies together. It's a film about a downhill race or a skier competing in the Olympics. His coach is Gene Hackman. And he is a... Is it James Salter who wrote it?

I think it's James Salter, the great novelist. And it's about drive and ambition and turning off yourself to the world in an effort to achieve what you want. Now, you might say how sad, Sean, that this is so interesting to you, but it is very interesting to me because it's one of the only good movies, in my opinion, about how athletes actually are. And I wrote about it 15 years ago about how much I liked it and how there's very few movies about winter sports. That's just not something you see very often. But I'm not going to make the case that this is one of his ten essential films, but it is a film if I were to build an alley.

Okay. I would consider placing this in my alley. Does it need to be locked alone in your alley by itself? I want to hear your thoughts. I want you, if you want to celebrate it wonderful. It's completely green for me. I kind of think so too. I mean, it's, but.

That's really interesting. I mean, it is, I mean, it's an amazing movie about, like, yes, about sports, but also just about ambitious, successful people and kind of how you have to be a psychopath. It is done an amazing, like, feet of filmmaking and just they are there, they are skiing. I believe they're mostly in Austria. but they are in Europe and filming through several actual skiing races in the late 60s. So it's sort of like F1, but in 1969. And it looks beautiful.

It's a good comparison, actually. They're somewhat similar. Yeah. Dan Harroisor is a far superior movie, but it's similar kind of framework. But just in that they used it. And that you get all of these, like, very exciting, beautiful shots of people going down these mountains. and it's beautiful to watch. And then it's a cool movie for Redford to do

because he is already engaging with... He's not a very likable character in this. Or if he is likable, it's because he's the protagonist and how much you want to root for him is really what the film is about in a lot of ways. But for this early in his career to take on something that is ugly, that spoiler alert doesn't get the girl.

That even in the moment of triumph is portrayed as a pretty, like it's a petty triumph at the end because you're waiting for the other guy to go down the hill and they have that moment of recognition. So it's a cool move for him and a cool, like, demonstrates an early understanding of who he is, what his career is, what he's good at, and how to turn it on its head to do something interesting.

totally badass i'm down with it all the way green i fucking love it this is going to be really hard though guys if we're putting downhill racer in this is going to be hard um uh okay let's just leave it at that other than to say the final point you made is the one the reason the case i would have made for it is this is the movie where he determines what his screen persona is which is that that taciturn quality that you described he really carves it out here okay next movie 1970 little foss and big halsey uh this is a Sydney J. Fury movie about two motorcycle racers. Yeah. It's not very good in my opinion.

No. I thought it was better than I than I thought it was going to be. Okay. I had not seen it before and I and I kind of enjoyed it. And one of the things I really enjoyed about it is Redford's performance. He embraces

a more animal side of his nature and of his sexuality in this movie. He does most this movie without his shirt on. He's a son of a bitch in the HUD tradition. And I think it's one of the loosest Redford performances. He's very, he doesn't really exhibit a lot of that clenched quality that we see in a lot of other movies. He seems very loose. He seems very free. He seems like he's improvving. He seems like he's enjoying playing

the son of a bitch. He said himself, it was was the best script he had ever read. Charles Eastman. It was one of the few scripts at the time, published in paperback form. Charles Eastman was the brother of screenwriter, the woman who wrote five easy pieces. They were brother and sister. And so there's a part of me, when I see Little Foss and Big Halsey, there's just, there was at that time a kind of existential movie usually.

rural, men and cars, men and women and motorcycles. Even downhill racer somewhat falls into this category, and it includes movies like Electroglide in Blue and Five Easy Pieces and Cockfighter, and they are kind of dreamy. They're not, there's no plot, there's no story to follow. Men want to go fast and get away from their problems. Yeah, yeah. It's a great subgenre film. Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance approach.

I found it compelling in that regard. I'm not at all advocating for it to go into the Hall of Fame, but I was delighted to find something I liked better than I thought I was going to like. Appreciate your advocacy. 1972, Jeremiah Johnson. So this is a reunion with Sidney Pollock. This is a Mountain Man Survival Film, a film that Sidney Pollock staked his career and finances on. Right, mortgaged his house.

He felt he absolutely needed to do this with Redford. Redford, you would not think would be the right fit, per se, for this part. This has become, for two reasons, I think, one of the more iconic movies of the 70s. One, it kind of kicks off this, like, this Mountain Man revival idea. And two, it's becoming a legendary internet meme. Yeah. The nod in this film is... But apparently a lot of people thought was Zach Gallifanacus for the longest time.

I did for a long time. I learned that before preparing for this podcast. I want to be clear. I've known that for several years, but the first two years of the meme, I thought it was back Alphenaccas. This movie actually haven't seen in some time, so I don't know if I can speak specifically to it.

I remember liking it and not loving it, but you can see why it's a big hit. I think... I have a lot of thoughts about him and Pollock and what they do for each other and what they don't do for each other. And I do think that sometimes they can indulge the dullest parts of their personalities.

And I look at some of the movies that they made, and then I look at some of the movies they made with other filmmakers and other actors, and their comfort actually maybe, like, works against them at times, or they're more comfortable being patient together, which I respect, but doesn't always make my favorite movies. Nevertheless, I do recognize that this is a

very iconic film, and it's very well liked. So what is the, what do you guys say? What are your thoughts on Jeremiah Johnson? You know, in the same way that you described, like, Little Fouse and Big Halsey as a genre of, you know, men want to go fast and get away from their problems. They're like, men need to, like, go be in nature and get away from their problems and

be manly. I'm like, I'm like, that's cool, but I don't care that much. So this is, it's sort of a subject matter issue. I do also think that we're perhaps overweeting the film for the meme. You know, it has really taken on a second and third life, and it's a great meme. But were you old enough to see this in theaters? I did not see this in theater. This movie was a very big hit at the time, by the way.

Very big. big box office and I rewatched it in preparation for this podcast and I I mean love it I would make it green I love this movie I love it in terms of Redford's career because there is there is some real myth building here right he is really the hero of this movie and and the the hero in this movie becomes a legend and I think with a lot of movie stars there is an early movie in their career where they say, all right, I'm going to own this. I own the legend. I will take that on. And I think that's very present in Jeremiah Johnson. We can't make both downhill racer and Jeremiah Johnson green.

This is what I was getting at. No, I know. Well, you know. You guys jump to green on downhill racer. Well, we can always undo it. We've got nine more 70s movies to talk about. Well, we could make Jeremiah Johnson. I think that downhill racer should be green and Jeremiah Johnson should be yellow. Okay, we'll do that. We'll start with that. That was the first of three films that he makes in 1972. The next film that he makes is the candidate.

Yes. This also happens to be one of my favorite films of all times. It's a great movie. So this is a film in which he plays an aspiring politician who is plunged quickly into a race. And we see what feels like real time, him going from a very unlikely figure in this political election to... someone who could very well win and what does that mean and what are the specific steps that need to happen for him to win and then what are the ramifications of the decisions that he and his team are making um this is his reunion with michael ritchie peter boyle plays campaign manager

figure very funny very insightful very prescient film one of the loosest redford movies um i think the idea that this guy is kind of figuring out in real time is really well portrayed by him and one of the great endings ever, one of the great final lines in movie history. Academy Award for Best Screenplay for Jeremy Larner. So this movie, I think, you know, for the physical media heads, this is a painful one. Oh, man, is it ever? There's only one DVD version available in a snap case. Really?

Which makes me want to die. So a snap case is just the traditional plastic case? It's the paper case. It's a cardboard case. Do you own that? I do. See, I bought it on whatever the, fuck um amazon or whatever to to rewatch it for this and it was so depressing it's so it's so

annoying and it's a beautiful movie uh no it's like i'll it's not important for this conversation yeah it's just some ugly it's uglier plastic than normal okay it's one of the grails where it's like people film fans would like to have this movie look more beautiful than it is and um it's it's just a very insightful and entertaining movie that i think holds a pretty darn well 50 years later and I don't know if maybe in part because of that physical media thing it doesn't have quite the reputation it still has kind of hidden gem reputation

but I think it's one of his best performances and a darn good movie I think yellow is fair okay I don't you know I don't what are your thoughts yellow sure I'm more I lean more toward green

in these early movies but I understand we've got a long way to go the candidate is a Sean movie and I saw it because it's one of your favorite movies. This is frequently in my top four on Letterboxes. And and I know what is that. And so

I also, to your point about, you know, myth making, or at least the, I always associated as a core part of Redford figuring out his stardom and negotiating with his stardom, which, you know, to me is interesting. I like the meta text. So I

kind of assumed it would be green, but we can yellow it for now. The other thing that I like about it very quickly is that it's a confirmation of his relationship to politics, which is that he is so ambivalent, if not utterly frustrated by bureaucracy and the necessity, like the impossibility of change inside of systems, that he's like, the only way you can do it is do it yourself. The only way you can do it is get in front of a microphone if you're powerful and say what you think or start something yourself and pay it for it with

your own money. And don't try to do this because this is a broken down bad idea. All that's true. He was also a good Democrat, though. Let's not. He was. Sugarcoat that. He was a good Democrat. He supported Bill Bradley in a presidential election. Right. Let me, can I ask just one follow-up? How often are you changing your letterbox top four? Well, every month.

But so it's like on the calendar? No. It's like, okay. But you said that with confidence like you have. I have a voice inside of me. That you have a, you have an alert. What like Mr. Redford, I'm a man of great ambition. Okay.

And what I do every day. How often are you changing your letterbox for? Not changing it. Okay. Done in collaboration with Kerry. We have our letterboxed account together. Oh, that's nice. So, yeah, done in collaboration with her.

But we don't mess with it. Okay. We will at some point. I'll probably change him up. No, it's fine. I just, he tossed that off like there was just some sort of schedule. And I suspect that there is, but he'll never admit it. Simply not true.

There are no reminders. I'm just acting on instinct at all times. The candidate is yellow. 1972, The Hot Rock, Peter Yates, Heist Comedy, starring Redford and George Siegel. in a quartet of bank robbers or would-be bank robbers I think what a... Bank robbers.

Bank robbers. Jewel thieves. Jewel thieves. Thank you. Jewel thieves. I mean, not to be that guy, but... No, you're right. Jewel thieves. I'm blown off the dome from here on it. Wow.

Yeah. Highly entertaining film. This is one of those... Like, we don't have room for it, but a classic. Yeah. Really, really good. And I do also feel when Redford died, a lot of people, you know,

We talked about all the great ones, and then they're like, but you ever seen The Hot Rock? Because that's a real one. It is. Yeah. This is going right down, Sean's Alley, this movie. I told you, I saw this at the new Bev on the big screen maybe 10 years ago, and I had that same reaction where I was like, this is one, best movies of the 70s.

It's incredibly fun. It's light on its feet. Redford's very good. You don't like it. I love it. You're shaking your head like you're going to reject that. In fact, I broke down and bought that goddamn twilight time blue on, I bought it.

On eBay, I don't want to tell you how much I paid for it. It's an embarrassing amount of money. I told Tracy that after I saw it at the new Bev years ago, I bought it right away. But when Twilight Time, this company still existed. And now this is a very hard movie to find on physical. I tracked down a new copy on eBay. Who does? New, still in the plastic on eBay and rewatched it just a couple of days ago.

And it's fantastic. A lot of fun. Really funny Ron Liebman in this movie. Really funny. The walk that read it. At the end of this movie, after he leaves and he's, spoiler alert, after he's got the gem in his pocket, the walk, the physicalization of joy and satisfaction is a marvel. It's to be studied. I mean, it's really something else. You cannot watch it and not, I just have a shit-eating

grin on your face the whole time you're watching him do that. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime, like an action blockbuster. the holidays move quick. But with Prime, fast-free delivery means those last-minute gifts arrive right when you need them. Last year,

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and just can't wait. Last-minute holiday magic? It's on Prime. Head to Amazon.com slash Prime to shop now. We haven't even gotten to like most of the all-time classics here. This is going to be a problem. Okay, so it has to, Hot Rock can be yellow.

Hot Rock can be yellow. That's probably not going to go. In 1973, The Sting. Yeah. This film won Best Picture. Right. But so did other things that he was involved in. He was also nominated for Best Actor for this film. It is his biggest box office success of all time.

It's totally green. It has to go in. I am a big fan of this movie, but I do not think it is like a five-star masterpiece. Art producer Jack just saw it for the first time. He was like, I've been waiting my whole life to see this movie. In part because it has that wonderful reveal that you were. talking about when you saw it as an eight-year-old, I do think a third and fifth and ninth viewings are a little bit less compelling for me personally. Chris Ryan said he thought it was

better than Bush casting the Sundance kid. That's something I don't understand. That's wilding. I don't understand that. We can't be responsible for all of his opinions. But I agree that this thing has to go in. Let's continue. Let's talk about the way we were. Okay, I just want to point out, 1972, Jeremiah Johnson, the candidate. The Hot Rock, 1973, the way we were and the sting. Yeah. Who ever had a two-year run like this? Unmatched.

Right? There's nobody else ever. It's out of control. It's completely insane. That is a good episode of this show is two-year runs. I've always wanted to do a series on the best runs of all time, but that period of five movies in 24 months and the quality of those movies and the success of those movies is stunning.

we were. Yeah. Go ahead, I'll lay out. I mean, he is Hubble Gardner to me, and I think to many, many people. I think I first saw the way we were because it was, there was an homage to it in a episode of Sex and the City.

And Mr. Big and Carrie are outside the plaza, as they are. And she says, your girl is lovely Hubble. And I was like, well, what's that about? But I think that there is no better movie ever made about

they're just like the really handsome kind of perfect guy who's just out of reach and you can't and it's never going to work and even he wants it to work and he thinks he can be more interesting and he thinks he can be different and you know that the short story that Hubble writes that I think it's called the All-American Smile and it's like you know sort of there's a self-love

clothing quality to Hubble and he's so interested in the Barber's story, same character, and it's, but, but, like, at the end, he's just kind of a cuck. Like, he is. Like, he can't live up to what he's supposed to do. And then the movie totally falls apart or doesn't fall apart, but, like,

it's not clear why he can, he just, like, builds a crib and then never sees his daughter ever again. I don't totally, you know. Not relatable to me. We could do a rewrite, or maybe just don't fill the crib. But, I mean, it's a pretty iconic role. Smash sensation film. One of the biggest movies in the 1970s.

True. Since Sidney Pollock again. Yeah. It's fine. I mean, I know. Men don't get this. Men really don't get this. This is like, I mean, it's true. It's not bad. I'm not trying to. I'm not criticizing it. I think it's good. I'm going to criticize it. Okay. Okay. Great. And I don't think it's, I don't think it is a gender thing, actually. I watched it with Carrie recently. We kind of came away feeling the same way about it. I had seen much of it or all of it on TV before, but we sat down and watched the 4K, which I own.

And we watched it, and we kind of came away with the same response, which was, first of all, he gets Robert Redford. Pollock puts Robert Redford and Barbara Streisand in close-up. How much of that movie is a close-up of one of the two of them or a two shot in the two of them? It's just like, you want the biggest movie stars in the world? Here they fucking are. I'm going to give them to you.

And that is an achievement. The song works. It does. The song totally works. The song hits all the spots inside you. It's supposed to hit. The ending works. Yeah.

Amazing. The parting of the two of them absolutely works. And it hits you in that place like, oh, the one that got away, all that kind of thing. There were things about this movie that are surprisingly kind of slipshod. The attention to period is. Nill, the attention to characters who are supposed to age 25 years over the course of this thing. They don't change their hair. They're both in...

Yeah, she does. Well, Katie changes her hair, and that's like, it's a major plot point. And then at the end, he's like, you went back to your hair. It looks great. But they're not even wearing period of haircuts. You're right. But it's not about the time period. It's about her sort of, you know, trying to, like, assimilate.

and then having her normal, her natural hair. Do you buy her activism? Um, yes, more than his. She stands for something. Well, she's not an activist. Well, do I buy Katie's... I don't know. I mean, something about her activism feels like just on the border,

not quite, but just on the border of like Wacky Dame. Do you believe that Wacky Dame and her socialist ideas? It's like Jerry Lewis. She would have done very well in Mom Donnie's New York, is what I'll say. She's a real democratic socialist. I just think that stuff has given some short shrift. Sure, I mean, everything having to do with the House of American Activities Committee is, it's not explored. It's pretty confusing.

I mean, I know what's going on because I understand history, but if you didn't know anything about the movie and sat down and watched it, we're like, okay, so. who's in trouble and why and what is he doing or not doing? There's a recent stricand cut, right? Do you know about this? There's a recent stricand cut of the movie that puts a lot of the House Un-American Activities Committee stuff back into the third act. Pollock was against. Pollock said no.

Pollock didn't want it. So it's not a director's cut. It's a stricand cut. Interesting. Babs. Some people think it's better. Some people argue that it's better. I believe.

I saw this movie many years ago. I thought it was perfectly fine, and I haven't revisited it. You don't have a heart. Okay, fair enough. It works, and it was clearly a cultural... Yeah. So this is probably...

Maybe the signature romantic feature of his career. There's probably one other one that we can make the case for, though it's not a film I love. So in that vein, Redford, one of the heartthrobs of the second half of the 20th century. Yeah.

I think if you spoke to a lot of people who would identify themselves as Robert Redford fans, it wasn't usually, like, weirdly little Blu-ray collectors like me. It was, like, it was women. Women loved Robert Redford. And I think this is the reason why, this movie. Our friend and colleague, Julia Lippon, is a huge Robert Redford fan. She and her mother both. And, like, I think on down days, they get together and watch Robert Redford films.

I texted her. I said, what is your pick? Like, what's the number one? What do I have to put in? Instant the way we were. So I think for that reason, this has to be green. I do, too. Yeah.

Okay, great. I can argue against the quality of the movie and still say it's... I agree with you. And the script, it seems like they did cut a lot out. It kind of falls apart. The motivations at end, it's like, why can't they make it work? I mean, I don't really know other than that the movie's arc is that it is supposed to be... The juice is that he's kind of out of grass.

It can't really make it work. But practically... There's not a lot of heat. Right? There's, I mean, there's some soft focus making out in front of the fireplace, but there's not a lot of like, I have to have you. And so you're wondering why they do keep going back to each other as well. And supposedly, he really did not want to do the movie, right?

I'm pretty sure I remember reading. It took him a lot of convincing to end up doing this. Oh, well, it works. Also, just two of the hottest people who have ever lived on planet Earth. She's so good. And he wore two pairs of underwear while shooting. To protect himself? He wanted to maintain a professional...

Okay. There's not a lot of stories of him trying to bed down his co-stars. That's one of the reasons they loved working with him. Unlike most of his contemporaries, he was married for a long period of time, reportedly very faithful,

and actresses loved him. Yeah. He also, I mean, Jane Fonda and Barbara Streisand, two fearsome women. And I mean that in a complimentary way, but like those are not, people, I mean, I guess many people did, you know, put them through issues. I've read the whole Jane Fonda biography twice, but...

Very strong in their careers. Exactly. And, and, and forces of nature. And after he died, they both came forward with statements, what a gentleman and, you know. Okay, so the way we were is green. That means the great gas becomes in 1974. And this is a, this is a big miss. This is the beginning of what I'll describe as dull Redford. And there are a lot of dull Redford movies, which is unusual because he's so magnetic. Did you watch it for this? I've seen it before. I didn't watch it for this. This was shown to us in high school. We did also read the Great Gatsby, but then it has reached

like, this is a history textbook. I watched it for this. Just fucking stop with Gatsby. Just fucking stop. It's a great book. Just let it be a book. Stop it. Yeah. I think that this is, it's the same calculation over and over again, which is because of the way that he is described in the first half of the book, we keep thinking it needs to be the most beautiful movie star in the Jay Gatsby part. And that's not it.

It's, Jay Gatsby is not cool. He is a loser. He's a loser. You're supposed to know he's a loser. That's right. And this movie also, it makes the same miscalculation that, in my opinion, the Baselerman movie makes as well. There's some interesting stuff in the Baselerman movie. I don't hate that movie. But

anytime I see this adapted, it's always like, The Golden God is playing Jay Gatsby. And I think that's a misread of the book. Anyway, the movie's not very good. Francis Ford Coppola also wrote this screenplay. Should have been an American director. It's Jack Clayton, yes. An English director and it should have been an American.

That's red. 1975, three days of the Condor. No, this is green. Instant green. I mean, it's got to be. Total, total green. The best of the Redford Pollock collaboration. Totally agree.

So, so good. brilliantly constructed adaptation of a novel. I was going to say this is the opposite of you being like when I'm feeling down and I need a two minute pick me up. I just go back and watch the Butch Cassidy and the Sundance kid scene where I was like, I don't really need to watch all of three days of the Condor, but I will just watch the assassination scene. And it is, it is brutal and perfectly executed. And that's also Redford is not in it. That is just actually Pollock, you know, finding, finding. magic. And maybe to your point about

they don't bring out the best in each other when Redford is off-screen is when he can really achieve greatness. But no, Redford's amazing in it. They did have done away wrong, but, you know, what are you going to do? Not the best, most sensitive portrayal of that character. And she was a huge star at the time, too.

But the movie itself is riveting, also prescient. Fits very neatly in this period of paranoia. Pollock didn't make a ton of movies like this The firm is kind of like this They're kind of spiritual sequels And Pollock had said after this

When people tried to ascribe A kind of social importance to the movie Regarding politics, etc He said no, no, no, no We were making a thriller This is a thriller, yeah This is a thriller I'm glad to hear you both love it

I don't think it's a green I mean, I'm sure that's convenient for him to say But the ending in particular Another amazing ending Yeah, yes, the New York Times And also one that it twists your certainty of of up as, you know, up is down and right, exactly.

Yeah. Have you ever read John Lithgow's memoir? No. You should read it. And just for nothing else to hear him rip Cliff Robertson a new asshole. He wouldn't be the first. Now, this is a situation in which he is perfectly cast. In this era, he's cast in a lot of movies in which he's meant to be sympathetic.

And he doesn't not seem like very nice man. But he's really, he's really good in this as a nasty CIA figure. Max von Siedao, I mean, there's a lot of great stuff. I mean, yes, the romance is the thing that was like, okay, that's the kind of thriller conceit. It's a, we wouldn't do that now. I don't think. We would at least try to build in a little more.

They could just, but there, that first scene, once he takes, in her apartment, and he gives her the card and they're yelling at each other. And she's like, I'm just. scared. I am too. They're really, really good together. And then they just tap to make out because it was 1975. May I take a moment to speak to the listeners? Certainly. There's a 4K on Kno Lorber of three days of the Condor. Is this your new thing? You're just doing ASMR physical media? Do you like movies? If you like movies, buy that for $20 and own it to keep it on your shelf. You could sell this on only fans, dude. Don't give it away for free.

I did see this movie at the Arrow two years ago projected on 35 and it was beautiful. It was so good. This is a great movie if you haven't seen it. Okay, 75 The Great Waldo Pepper, a reunion with George Roy Hill, movie about a 1920s, 1930s aerial artist in the aftermath of World War I

who was not fortunate enough, I guess, to fly in World War I. And so he pursues this career and this degree of fame. Oh, he's been a bit of a curious movie. Pretty successful at the box office. Office. Margo Kitter, Susan Sarandon. Who is his opponent? I can't recall.

Is it Boz Svinson? Yes. Boz Svincen. In like his first, maybe his first big movie, and Boz Fentz, it's very good in this film. Yeah. Never been one of my faves. I think it's cool.

There's a great chapter about it in William Goldman's Adventures in the Screen Trade and how much he liked this movie and how interesting he thought it was and how proud that he was, but it didn't quite attain the iconic status of some of their other collaborations. Goldman also suggests that he knows the reason the movie failed, and it's because of a narrative decision he makes regarding the death of a character midway through. And I think Goldman is absolutely wrong in his estimation of why the movie doesn't work. It doesn't work. There are good things about it. It's not a bad watch, but certainly not whole of favor. They spend a lot of time flying. A lot of time, right? And it does seem sort of, I think that all the

filmmakers were very infatuated with actually getting the footage of people flying and recreating these aerial battles and being true to whatever formations, which like, listen, I'm the world's number one Top Gun Maverick fan. I appreciate fidelity in airplanes, but it's slow. So, and they're just floating up in the air for a long time. You suppose that because of the way I feel about Great Waldo Pepper, that's why I've never seen Top Gun Maverick? You are invited to our house anytime. to watch Top Gun Maverick. It will be me, my three-year-old son, and you, and he'll narrate it for you.

That sounds great. That's great. 1976, all the president's men. Green. Now, this is obviously green for a variety of reasons. It's the best. I would argue, aside from this being one of the most watchable films ever made, that Redford's seeking out this material and identifying that this should be a film

before the book is even published and knowing that he should be Woodward, is one of the great acts of star protissorial work in movie history. Good Democrat, too, right? Good Democrat at work. Yes. Well, Nixon was already on his way down as this was all happening,

but yeah, this movie's a banger. It's a total classic. I would also add, when Redford died, many people were posting stills from three days of the Condor and specifically the Peacote and talking about, you know, how that's the hottest

that Redford has ever been on screen. and I would just like to state clearly and definitively that Robert Redford shirtless, no, no, no, not this same. Shirtless with the gold chain trying to find his pen to write something down and all the president's men. I think also while the music's playing very loudly is the hottest that Robert Redford ever was on screen. Forty years old when this one gets made.

I made it work. I think there's, I actually think there's an argument that it's one of the greatest American movies ever made. I think it's just superb from top to bottom. I can find no fault with it. I had a friend who watched it not long ago, and she spoke to me, and she said, what is the difference between Robert Redford and Dustin Hoffman and the guys in the office

who they work for? Martin Balsom, Jason Robards, Jack Warden, et cetera. She said, because there's such a difference between what it is. to be a man, right? It's a, it is a pretty male heavy movie. What it is to be a man. And my, my best explanation was, those guys are veterans. Those guys, all those guys, not only veterans, but, and Hal Holbrook, too, I believe combat veterans. And Robert Redford and Dustin Hoffman represent the first real generation that did not come from that tradition of you, you know, You got drafted, or you do your service one way or another.

That's interesting. It is interesting. It's especially interesting when you get to a place later in the career, right, where Mr. Redford is the older guy and he's passing the baton to younger guys along the way. It's like, well, there are no veterans here, right? We're in a different realm of human experience. You're referring to lions for lambs, I think, when you say that. Or I'm referring to spiking.

Okay. Yeah. Well, all the president's been is in. That's nice. Big win for my guy, Alan Pacula, Pride of Long Island. Oh, is that right? I didn't know that.

A bridge too far. Did I watch this? Again, Chris Ryan, what are you talking about? This movie's so boring. It's so fucking dull. I know. I watched this during COVID with my wife, and halfway through, she was like,

how long is this? And that's not never a good sign. This movie has an extraordinary cast. It's directed by... Too extraordinary. It's written by William Goldman. It's directed by Richard Attenborough. It is one of the most, all of the pieces of the puzzle are spread out on the floor,

but none of them fit together movies ever made. In my opinion, now this movie has a lot of defenders, a lot of fans. Did you revisit this? No, because I googled it. And to answer Eileen's question, it's three hours long. And I was like, I'm out. We don't have room for this. Nothing.

And an hour and a half in, you're like, when is this going to get started? What are we doing? I learned something when I saw this movie at the movie theater with my parents. And we left, and we were talking, my dad was talking me through why. it didn't work, what was wrong with it. And he talks about a moment where Elliot Gould is about to lead a little troop of soldiers across a bridge and the bridge gets blown up.

And he turns around and he looks toward the camera and he says, he got a cigar in his mouth and he says, shit. And dad said to me, he said, wouldn't it be more interesting if he turned around and said, poo-poo? Simply making the point that the expected

is not always great and you should try to find the unexpected in the expected moment. Yeah, it's a movie made in the 70s it feels like it's trying to be in the 1950s. And I'll just want to read the cast really quickly just for austerity's sake because it's Dirk Bogart, James Conn,

Michael Cain, Sean Connery, Edward Fox, Elliot Gould, Gene Hackman, Anthony Hopkins, Lawrence Olivier, Ryan O'Neill, Robert Redford, Maximilian Schellon, Little Woman. No, no, no. Too many. That's 15 screen icon. Never good.

Never good. Anyway. I do miss, I will say this. I do miss when Hollywood was like, we need to put everybody together in a movie. I don't. It's a mad, man, man, mad, man, mad, man. It's a world.

It's called the Odyssey. Coming soon. You're right. You're absolutely right. And honestly, I anticipated. Yeah. And it could turn out to be a disaster, but I anticipated.

Okay, 1979, The Electric Horseman. Very strange and entertaining movie. This is a like, comedy about a former rodeo champion who's become a spokesperson for a serial company and he falls in love with Jane Fonda.

Their fourth collaboration. Yes. And is this the fifth movie with Pollack at this point? I think it might be the fifth movie. Another movie that was a big hit. I would say a little lower on the scale of greatness. This is kind of a lark. Yeah, not available on streaming. No kidding. Wow. I also own this movie. I don't own it Wow

Saw in the movie theater Okay That was fine I thought it was fine Yeah I would just like to say I'm pro mustache for Redford He looks good Nice

He looks good Very charming Um okay So Reddard Loved being on a horseback Yeah We'll come back to that Yeah

1980 Brew Baker Watch this movie this morning Not for the first time Okay This is a movie That has a great premise And I wonder what it could have been if things went a little bit differently.

So it's a movie about a man who arrives at a, like it's a high security prison that is apparently quite corrupt and we start seeing the prison through his eyes for the first 30 minutes of the movie. And I'll spoil the twist because it's spoiled on the poster of the movie if you've ever seen it, even though it should not have been in my opinion. But this man that Redford plays who's entering this prison is, in fact, the warden of the prison and is observing what's transpiring in this corrupt prison so that he can figure out how to fix the problems of the place. And then the second half of the movie is about him attempting to make change. And he finds that it's hard to make change in this bureaucratic world that we live in.

The movie was supposed to be directed by Bob Ravelson. And he was fired after 10 days. Bob Ravelson coming out of the incredible swell of the late 60s and 1970s, where he had a tremendous amount of success as a director. And he gets fired and he gets replaced by Stuart Rosenberg, who directed Cool Hand Luke. and this movie wants to have some cool hand luke energy never totally gets there in my opinion

do you own this movie I do I don't I saw the movie theater wow it was okay yeah it's okay it's got great Yafat Koto performance there's a lot of great supporting actors good Morgan Freeman performance very early Morgan Freeman role it does feel like a hangover from the 70s movie

where they're trying to make a 70s movie and it feels like it's a little out of time it's not bad Emmett Walsh yes very good Tim McIntyre you know who Tim McIntyre is tell us well he also wrote the music for Jeremiah Johnson and he's singing the songs in Jeremiah Johnson Tim McIntyre and John Rubinstein were actors who basically put together a tape they knew the story of Jeremiah Johnson and they they made their own tape of their own music and somehow got it to Pollock and that became the score for Jeremiah Johnson,

which actually becomes very important in that movie because, of course, Jeremiah Johnson has an overture and an untract, right? When you see that thing fully done? And they sing the, write the ballad of Jeremiah Johnson very much in that mode of mythmaker. Anyway, Tim McIntyre, very good,

good, troubled character actor. He's very good in Brue Baker. Brewbaker is going to be read. 1980. Robert Redford decides he wants to be a director. Mm-hmm. Ordinary people. Yeah.

Now, I have a great many thoughts about this movie. I did an episode of The Rwatchables about it a few years ago. Deeply emotional film, kind of a keystone, I think, to Robert Redford, The Man, was hugely celebrated in its day. One Best Picture. And it's just not at all what you would have expected from him, based on his career to that point. It's a real curveball. But he has really good instincts, particularly casting Mary Trey, Tyler Moore. Really smart move. It's not my favorite movie of his. It's not my favorite

directed movie of his. It is very significant in his career. And so I'm curious what you both think of the movie, and I'm curious how you feel it fits into the framework of his career. I mean, it gets, I was going to say two, and that's unfair to Donald Sutherland. Three really amazing performances in Mary Tyler Moore, the Timothy Hutton, and Donald Sutherland. And Judd Hirsch. Of course, yeah. And there is a surprising sensitivity and, like, emotional awareness, which, you know, not to take shots at Robert Redford, but he's not exactly, like, on a therapy couch in all of the movies up to this point. He is playing very, like, buttoned up emotionally unavailable people.

And so I think it's admirable and interesting that this is what he picks and that he does it so deftly. Like, it's a, you know, I hadn't seen it since becoming a mom and that is, that's tough. But an amazing Mary Tyler Moore performance. So, and it's so significant. I don't know, what would you put in as, are you imagining that we'll save one slot for director? I think we could do as many as we want. want to do. I don't know if it's his best directed movie,

but it's such an interesting thing for him to choose to do. And it's hard to not, you know, he's someone who lost his mother at a young age, and it really hurt him. And he spoke sparingly about it, but when he does speak about it, it kind of shattered something in him. And this is a movie about grief

and not knowing what to do with it. He also lost a child, very young, from what we now call SIDS, which, you know. So it's pretty literally, you know, relevant to what he's dealing with or has it dealt with. But not something he spoke about beyond this movie, really. It's also historically kind of a movie history villain because this is the movie that beat Raging Bull, the Academy Awards. And Raging Bull considered, you know, this the stature of the cinephile, you know, the achievement. And this is kind of a soggy drama.

But both movies are good and for different reasons. That's soggy. I don't know. Tracy, what's the verdict? I love ordinary people. I think it's a great movie. I think it should have beat Raging Bull for Best Picture. I think it's a better film. And I love Raging Bull. I love a lot about Raging Bull. Clearly, as a technical achievement, it is a marvel. And from a performance standpoint, I mean, De Niro is undeniable. Which is probably why they committed egregious category fraud by putting Timothy Hutton in supporting actor, because he is the lead in ordinary. people. And it is a great performance. He's great in this film. But Jake Lomato was a colossal asshole. I know in some ways that's what Raging Bull is about. Some of us who were alive in

1980 and going to see the movie, they made a movie about Jake Lomata. That guy's a colossal asshole. I don't know what we're going to get out of this. So I love Raging Bull. It's not to take anything away from that. I just think Ordinary People is a really beautiful, heartfelt, in the best sense of that word, film. And I think it's genuinely affecting, and I think it's genuinely speaks to the American family. And I just think that's, I not only think it's good,

I think it's important. So yeah, it's green for me. I love it. I think so, too. I mean, and he won Best Director for it. So historically, we've done, the Oscar winner goes in. Okay.

Ordinary People is green. Yeah. Let's go back to his film career because he takes eight years off between directing projects. 1984, the natural. So he takes some time off here. In this Teregum, he is trying to buy land in Utah and essentially buys a mountain. And then begins to start to build out what would become the Sundance Institute, which eventually evolves into a film festival and a kind of waste station. And he's pursuing a lot of local activism at this time.

trying to prevent things from being built and land from being destroyed for the sake of commerce. And it's interesting that after a movie that is so sensitive and emotional and seemingly very personal that he takes a bit of a break from movies after reaching the mountaintop. Right. And he comes back with The Natural,

which is also an iconic film and also a film that kind of lives forever. And you mentioned what social media, you know, was being shared in the aftermath. I think for a certain generation of man. Yeah. this is a very important movie and I would say maybe not quite my gender

maybe even between us somehow like I think if you're 50 this movie really matters I like it quite a bit I think it's quite stately there's some things I don't I'm not in love with about it but it does feel like it is an essential part of his

mythology I'm too young for this one and I love baseball movies and I love Robert Redford I guess I came to it late and so I think I think I came to it after Field of Dreams and after, I don't know, and so I expected it to be some great like on the field triumph and everyone's like, oh, you know, Redford is so

convincing as a ball player, which he is. But it's really just about some like very involved, like rigged games and a lady shooting him for no reason that I could. It's very, I was like, what is going on? on and so and then he is quite old so i i know that it's a huge deal it's not my particular he also like the redford performance is like good because it is good because it is very much you know it's movie as myth even you know it is made in that very grand like this you know this this this this is baseball jesus but he is playing it like baseball jesus i don't know does he

bat left in the movie? I think so. Because he's a lefty. He does. He does? He does. He's lefty in all things other than writing. Have you noticed that? He writes with his right hand. It must have been some like school thing where they made him forced to have talked about right hand. My entire father's

side of the family is left handed. My mother's side of the family is all right handed. And so me and my siblings have all of these awkward things. My brother bats left handed and writes right handed. Unusual. Anyway, you like the natural? Not especially. I'm not. I mean, I'm a big Malamud fan. This is based on a Bernard Malamud book,

which is much more obscure material than this movie, right? This movie is pretty on the nose, the swelling. Is it a Newman, one of the Numen's doing the music? It's Randy. It is Randy. Because another thing, when I rewatched it, the final scene, that score has been reused more time. I think I know that piece of music better than I know.

the rest of the natural because... But that's Newman's score is very... This is the start of really a huge era of Newman making scores like this, but he was not really known for making scores like this, this time, anyhow. But he came from a lineage of scorewriters. He did. His uncle and his cousin and, yeah. There's a great clip of Robert Duvall on the David Letterman show, and Letterman is asking him about some of his movies,

and he says, well, you weren't a great, and you were in the natural. That's a great movie, and Duval kind of shrugs. And Letterman says, you don't think it's a great movie. And Duvall's response is cute at best. That's what Duvall said about the movie. I don't know. I think it's a little better than cute at best, but I don't have a huge relationship to it. It's just for this exercise that we do on the show, this is movie, which all three of us don't have a huge affection for, is a challenge to the premise.

What are we trying to accomplish here? Because this film would be listed among the first five films in any Robert Redfell. obituary in my, I would imagine right? Would it? I think Roy Hobbs is one of his, let's just do that exercise really quick. Let's go from 10 to 5. All the President's men. Yeah.

Butch Cassidy. Yeah. The Sting. The Sting. Way we were. Way we were. And I would say this movie. Now maybe ordinary people comes in there. As like, and the director of ordinary people. Yeah. But you could, I think I would argue that this

is his last iconic screen. performance I'm not saying it's not his last good performance he's got a lot of good performances after this especially in the 2000s I think you're probably right I think that if someone if you post this online and don't put the natural and people are going to be like what the fuck's the natural

well I know but that happens all right I know everybody's better than the people on the that's not the point I'm trying to make what is the purpose of the exercise I got both of you now being like well who cares Look, if the purpose of the exercise was to construct something that's universally recognized as the Hall of Fame, then we can just go fucking, you know, look at Time Magazine website or where of the, I don't know, does Time Magazine still exist? They do, and they actually, they like this podcast, so, yeah, it would be Newsweek. So we could go on, we could go to the New York Times and say, what are the, what's the, what are the 10 movies? This is our whole.

Okay, the natural's out. The natural is out. So the natural's out and out of Africa is also out. Out of Africa is out. Out of Africa. What's going on? I watched yesterday. You guys were out partying, partying,

prolicing about Hollywood, gallivanting. We did. We did to dance. We wanted to dance. I danced a little bit. There wasn't a good dancing situation. And we made the slideshow. I just want to let you know as the, yeah, the results came in as we were recording.

I'm sitting at home. Watching this slop. This best picture winner. You're watching the jets. I did watch the Jets as well. I watched the Jets until I couldn't anymore. And then I put on out of Africa. This film made in 1985 one best picture

It is also a Sydney Pollock production Not my Oscars One of the most stately films of the 1980s A real I'm putting on David Lean's clothes kind of films And is brutally dull Brutely dull There are good things about out of Africa Okay

Oh, I have to say I assume you feel the same way Yeah, no, no, no, very boring So, 1986, Legal Eagles, I did not revisit this. I'm sure I saw it on cable as a young person, but you said that you did see it. I revisited as well. You did, okay. The one thing I can say about Legal Eagles that recommends it over every single other film on this list is that it is the only film in which Robert Redford performs his version of singing in the rain shirtless in his apartment.

It's true. So in that sense, it is a marvel. Otherwise, it's a not good, like, romantic comedy thriller. I mean, they're trying to solve some sort of art heist and... The comedy thriller is very tricky. It's really not easy to pull off. And the plot keeps, it becomes more and more Baroque. It's not very good.

But he, you know, he shimmies his hips a little during the Sing and the Rain. does with the, you know, the big come on with the rain. I've got a smile on my face. So I enjoyed revisiting that. It's so funny. On paper, you would think that Jim Cash and Jack Epps Jr., the screenwriters of this movie, they had two movies this year. And if you looked on paper and you thought,

a romantic thriller with Robert Redford and Deborah Winger, and then this movie about these pilots directed by Tony Scott. What's going to be the bigger movie of those two? Right. Probably legal eagles. But the other movie is Top Gun. Yeah. And that was...

That was a bigger film. You haven't seen that film. Top Gun, no, I haven't seen that. But I have seen Legal Eagles, both in the movie theater at the time and in preparation for this podcast. I wonder if it's a better movie if Redford and Deborah switch roles. Cool. Yeah.

That's good. I think maybe it's a better film. Right. And then he's doing the Harrison Ford and Working Girl type thing where he's just along for the ride. Right. This is the movie that Ivan Reitman made after Ghostbusters. You can almost sense that he's like, I'm going to class it up now. I'm ready to be an adult now

and it doesn't work on that he makes twins which is a lovely movie and legal eagles was success right yeah it made $90 million yeah it's a successful movie not Hall of Fame no no I agree let's go to the Milagro Beanfield War

yeah which is the next film that he directs in 1988 which I watched a little bit of yesterday I didn't watch the entire film but I wanted to be reminded of it which I think is just a wonderful movie and very charming and very funny and again not at all what you would think he would direct I agree and I saw this in the movie theaters as well and remember it very fondly. Yeah.

This is one of the, probably the most unknown or forgotten of his directorial work and really of anything that he worked on, I would say, over time, mostly because his cast is not as star-studded, though there's a lot of very good actors in the movie. But if people can track this movie down or can rent it online, I think it's really worth it. It's very entertaining. It's not Hall of Fame-worthy. Do you have it on Blue? I certainly do. I do, too. Okay. I see here that it was released by Kino-Lor Lover. Yeah. I mean, Kino-Lorber, there are maybe like 15 Kino-Lorber films in my Redford Stack, which will be posted to social media soon. Oh, great.

Okay. Let's keep moving. 1990, Havana. Yes. When I was describing the relationship between Pollock and Redford and the way that they would indulge each other's dullness, this is the movie I was thinking of, which I had not seen before until this week. I had also not seen it until I watched it in preparation for this podcast.

This is a movie about a pre-Castro-Cuban Cuba in which a poker player played by Robert Redford gets involved with the wife of a communist rebel played by Raoul Julia. Lena Olin plays the woman. This should be the sexiest, coolest movie

ever made. So boring. Not good. I said that about like six movies in this conversation. Is he good at playing poker? There's a couple of interesting poker scenes and a lot of very good character actors. There's not a lot of like actual gameplay.

Okay. We see cards on the table, let me see some discussion, but you don't really, it's not, it's not exactly rounders. Okay. Fair to say? Fair to say. So this movie's read. Yeah. It's just awkward.

You really, I really feel watching it that Mr. Redford's heart isn't in it. Totally agree. It doesn't seem like he's, it seems like he knows it's not working. I feel like I can read on him, oh, you know, this isn't working. He's a little glazed over the entire film. Kind of has like a stit, like a blank spot. smile throughout most of the movie because he's supposed to be this kind of suave character moving through this illicit world but it has no heat this is uh i put the movie on and i was watching

and i was maybe 20 minutes half an hour into it and i thought i'm watching robert redford lena olin alan arkin and i thought to myself real julia should be in this movie and then suddenly he appeared he's uncredited he didn't is that true he is he didn't he wanted to be above the title as well apparently with Mr. Redford and Ms. Olin and they wouldn't give him that. So he said, well, then just don't credit me at all. I mean, he's killed within the first 45 minutes in the movie. Look, okay. Anyway, sorry for the fan of heads out there.

We're desperate to track this movie down after we ran it down. 1992 is a very important year for him. He has a big box office success and directs a film. He stars in sneakers and he directs a river runs through it. Yeah. Now, these are... I think this is, maybe this is when I came on. online with Robert Redford.

I see. Yeah. It was a river runs through it and your passion for fly fishing. Well, Brad Pitt is incredibly handsome in that movie. Just really, really intense stuff. But also, Sneakers was such a phenomenon. It was. And it is a beloved movie recently featured on the rewatchables.

I think this is Joanna Robinson's favorite movie of his. And it's a movie that I've always liked and not loved. But it is a very... it's very personal to a lot of people, which is strange because it's an odd movie. Actually, when I saw you in New York, we talked about it a little bit, right? Yeah, because I had never seen it before.

I watched it for the pod. And I don't know. I was so into it for the first half of the movie. The reveal of the conspiracy was so exciting. And then we come to find out it's Ben Kingsley in a bad hairpiece at some suburban office park. It's like, this is the bad guy? Yeah.

Yeah. It's a bit depressing. It's another film that has a lot of great pieces. You know, Sidney Pottier, David Stratharne, River Phoenix. Oh, great cast. Wonderful cast, Kingsley. Phil Alden Robinson. This is the movie he made after Field of Dreams.

And two for two for Phil Alden Robinson. Now, again, this is a challenge to the what is the purpose of this? Because I think for the 90s, you could make the case this is his film. Now, you can also say a river runs through it or the next film we'll talk about. could also be a choice. Let's talk about, well, we should do a river runs through it. Which I just saw it for the first time.

I've never seen a river runs through it. Oh, watch it on. Did you like it? I did. It's very good. It was really lovely. Beautiful movie about fathers and sons. I thought Craig Sheffer was really good.

And at the time, it was as much Craig Sheffer as it was Brad Pitt. Like, Craig Sheffer had been in a series of movies up to that point. I think the program was the movie he made right before that, the college football movie. And so he was also becoming a very well-known actor. My father loves this movie. This is one of the most dad movies ever made. And he showed it to me, I think, when I was 10 years old. And I like it quite a bit.

I think it's really beautiful. Oh, the, yeah, stomach punch for me at the end. There were a couple of punches in the stomach. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's very effective. I think it's maybe just shy of the Hall of Fame, but it's a good movie. Yeah, we can yellow it. Let's see, okay, well, Yellow River runs through it.

Do you want to yellow sneakers for the sake of conversation here? Sure. So, well, yellow sneakers. I can't believe we've just redded the natural. That was crazy. 1994 quiz show. Great. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Did I skip something? Yes. Oh, sorry. You skipped indecent proposal. Oh, I'm sorry, I skipped indecent proposal. No, we're going to talk about indecent proposal. Let's talk about indecent proposal. Okay.

Okay, if you've been sitting at home snoozing through our podcast, you're in the car, you're not really listening. Listen up, people, because we're going to talk about indecent proposal. So I had never seen this before. I watched it with Carrie. No, we'd never watched it. And so I watched it with Carrie. She knew the movie.

She had seen it someone. Yeah. And I, the second half, so after. Great movie to watch it, their wife. After Robert Redford sleeps with Demi Moore, and she comes home to Woody Harrelson. And he starts acting like a little bitch after she comes home. For the second half of the movie, I was just screaming at the TV the whole time, you're not a man.

You're less than a man. This movie is so ridiculous. Who wouldn't fuck Robert Redford for a million dollars? Who is that person? That is true. You're 100%. It's a fatally flawed film. Yeah.

Yeah. But also, it has Robert Redford being like, I will fuck you and then give you a million dollars. He's very charming. He's wearing a wonderful watch. Yeah. You know, he looks great. He's fully in his... His house is nice? You know, his late 50s at this point.

He's very believable as this, you know, wealthy social manipulator, someone who's, like, so successful that he's like, I'm just going to fuck with people. He was not a big fan of this movie. and he signed on because he thought it was an interesting psychological exploration of commitment in that he turned out to be an Adrian Line movie and you know I like Adrian Line movies just as much as the next guy

but this movie's like not actually that good but it's really interesting to talk about and it was a huge hit I think his biggest hit yeah I think Mr. Reddren's biggest hit but sure oh all right the first half of it is absolutely incredible

and you can't believe what you're watching and, like, hugely, like, titillating in the best Adrian Lines. And it is a great, it's a, like, a movie as a reference point, you know, now we... It went into the culture immediately. Exactly. And so that says something about it. It does. I have...

When Carrie and I watch movies at home, whether or not she's going to stay awake is always in question. There's no question when, in watching Indecent Proposal. She was wide awake throughout the entire film. So there is something about it that grabs the attention and that hold you. Maybe it's stupidity is one of the things that holds you to it. You're not a man. You're not a man. It's true.

It's just also like you made a deal. That's the thing. He knew what he was getting himself into. He knew absolutely what he was getting himself into. And now he's got a million dollars. Shut the fuck up. So I wouldn't put this in. Okay.

Because I just don't think the movie is ultimately that good. Van Leithen said this is his favorite Robert Rudd when we were outside with him. When Van makes his Robert Redford Hall of Fame, he should absolutely put this in. It must be a yellow. Okay, we'll yellow it for the sake of you. 1994 quiz show. Yes. Now, this is one of the first movies that made me feel smart.

And I was like, I want to be closer to whatever's going on here. There is a kind of... Now, one, I love game shows. Yeah, I was going to say. I love trivia quiz shows. I love the... idea of a kind of hidden scandal. This movie is a really interesting kind of detective movie in some ways.

Rob Morrow playing this kind of guy investigating what's really happening behind the scenes of this TV, this quiz show. And it features a series of incredible performances. And some incredible scenes in which to perform, right? There is great individual scenes in this movie. Yeah. Yeah. I said this about a recent movie that we did on the pod that like the secret to great movies, not necessarily great writing or great art, but great movies. It's just like one

great scene after another. And this movie really has that. Very entertaining. Nominated for Best Picture. It arrived in the year of the... I was going to say... Pulp Fiction, Forrest Gump, Shawshank, Bloodbath. Excuse me, what was the fifth film that was nominated in 1994? It was sense and sensibility. No, that is 1995. They're re-releasing it in December. No. That was in the 1980s. That was a joke. It was, uh, you're a disrespectful person.

And first of all, it's funny that you're on the quiz show portion of this podcast, you can't get the trivia. It was, four weddings and a funeral. Four weddings and a funeral. Yeah. Yeah, it's a very good movie. Okay. If we're not putting the natural in, I would want to put in a movie like quiz show, which I just think is wonderful. It's not, is it iconic in the same way?

know? Is it even really very Redfordian? Maybe? Not really? It's just superb. It's just really good. It's really fucking good. Yeah. Now, that would make it two directed films that he does not appear in going in. So I would

yellow it if you wanted to come back to it. I think those are his two best directed films. I definitely agree. I'm fine with it. We can definitely yellow it. Let's yellow it. Let's yellow it for now. We've got to keep moving. I have a little trivia, though. One brief thing. So I heard Bill Simmons talking about Robert Redford on a podcast with another fellow.

They did a little Redford trip. Wesley Morris. No, it wasn't Wesley. It was another fellow. Brian Coppelman. Yes. They talked about and they talked about the slow clap, the introduction of the slow clap in Brewbaker. Bill seems to think that that is the introduction of the slow clap in Brewbaker. And it might be. I don't know. There's a slow clap in quiz show at the end. And it all, I always bumped on it. It was just like, why, why the slow clap? This movie is, it's real. It actually happened.

The slow clap actually happened. It's a historic fact. I don't think it happened in Brubaker for the record. That's one of the weirdest endings to a movie of all time. Isn't there a slow clap in Brubaker? No, I just mean in the real story. It's not based in real way. I see.

I don't think that that happened. The ending of Brubaker is utterly bizarre for the record. Like the score and all the choices that are made. Anyway, actually, actual. slow clap, meaning earned slow clap. Well, if you keep this up, you'll get a slow clap at the end of this episode. I do not like an unearned slow clap.

1996, up close and personal. Yeah. This is my least favorite movie in the Robert Redford filmagra. Wow. You just, you were not 12 in 1996. You just weren't, you know? You weren't there. When I look at something like that. Have you heard the Celine Dion song? Do you know the name of his character

in this film? No. It's Warren Justice. That's a little on the nose for Joan Didion and John Gregory Dunn, in my opinion. When I look at Havana, when I look at some of the other movies we've talked about that maybe don't come up, I can look at Havana and go, those are two artists who were trying a thing and it didn't happen for them. When I look it up close and personal, I go, this is made by a corporation. This is, this was made by producers and executives. and the artists got squeezed out of the process. That's what it looks like to me.

And then a little investigation turns up that's really what happened. I mean, John Gregory Dunn wrote a fucking book about how this movie got fucked up. Yes, wonderful book. That's a monster, right? Is that monster? Yeah, here's the thing is that he believed in her, you know, and took a chance on her when no one else did. And so then, and then when her career,

He keeps going, you know, and he shows up for her. And then he discovers his own joy in work again, and she loses him, but she keeps doing the work. Amanda, are you telling me that you like this movie? I just, I remember, I remember this movie. And so because you love me is the Celine Dion song. If the Celine Dion song was not in the movie, would you care? Well, maybe not, but it was such a phenomenon at the time. Like, I remember being obsessed with this song, waiting for it to come on the radio, and then being sucked in to the movie itself.

I was also, again, I was 12. So. Mm-hmm. You see it in theaters at 12? Probably, yeah. But, like, how many Michelle Pfeiffer movies had I seen at that point? Like, this is, we're, I was coming late to two very, you know, famous and talented people. And I was at the exact right age for, like, the corporate.

machine to hand me this glap and be like, but see, she got, you know, she got a makeover and then she learned to do more than the weather. And you can too, as long as you have really handsome Robert Redford in your corner. Because I love you. Do you believe that this belongs in the whole thing? No, absolutely not. But we just need to acknowledge that it was really important. I just want to say, the real true life story of Jessica Savage, the anchor whom this film is sort of based on, it's a very sad story. She's also an alumni of Ithaca College. And in Ithaca college, she is like a saint. And there's like a scholarship

named after her. And I spent a lot of time learning about Jessica Savage. Her real story, her real life is quite interesting. This movie's a little gloppy, in my opinion. And how about that local station in Miami, which is several stories high

and employs hundreds of people? I was like, was that ever? Was it ever like that? I doubt it. I mean, right now it's eight people, you know, in a booth. Right now it's three people in death. This is broadcast news. 1998 The Horse Whisper. I know.

Starring and directed by Robert Redford. Yeah. I have not seen this movie since 1998. Okay. I did not revisit it for this episode. You reminded me that it was quite long. Well, I revisited it and did not remember, but re-learned that it is two hours and 50 minutes long. Two hours and five-oh?

Yes. Is it really? Yes. Wow. I will be honest, I did not rewatch all two hours and 50 minutes. I fast forwarded to my hero, Chris and Scott Thomas, being a, you know, a working woman on the go in New York and then swooning at the nice horseman. And then when they ride on the horses together, which they do at great length. So a little scarjo while I was fast forwarding.

I this movie came out after the English patient which I loved and was thus obsessed with Chris and Scott Thomas and I guess I knew about Robert Redford from up close and personal so it was another again we can only be the teenagers that we were and so I saw it at the time and thought it was like very serious and of course now it's just like a it's kind of forgotten I mean it was also very much the announcement of Scarlett Johansson as a young actor and another movie that when you look at the component parts script by Eric Roth

and Richard LaGrovinas shot by Robert Richardson I mean it looks edited by Hank Corwin who edited JFK It's amazing to watch all these Redford movies and to go and to realize

the heads of departments are just like always 18 A team always This one in particular though is really the best of the best and I just remembered this movie putting me to fucking soon Well, yeah, it's quite long.

And it was also another movie that I think very much kind of dominated the culture for the two months in the run-up to its release because it seemed so important. Yeah. And then it didn't turn out. Saw it, 98, liked it. Want credit for saying at the time, I think that girl's going to be a big star. And I haven't thought about it since. Made $187 million to the box office. A three-hour movie about a man and a young girl and horses.

Yes, and also Kristen's got Thomas. And, you know, repressed love. And Chris Cooper, really good cast. People like to see Robert Redford on screen. And a cowboy hat, too. Okay. That's red. Let's go to 2000 and say the legend of bagger vans will not be making it in.

Yauza. Never seen it. Didn't want to watch it for this. I think it really, really bad. I saw it. That one I did see in theaters. That's a no. Complete miscalculation across the board.

That's the movie. that Will Smith chose to make instead of The Matrix, so that happened. 2001, The Last Castle, I think we, did we both watch this for the first time? Yes. You watched this for the first time as well? No, no, Tracy told me last night that you both watched it. It was one of the films that he watched on the plane. Did you watch this?

No. Okay. Because this is about where I started running out of time and had to be selective. I wanted to watch this because I'd never seen it. And I like the contender, Rod Lurie's movie, and Rod Lurie directed this movie, a return to prison for Robert Redford. He plays a general who has been convicted of a crime and sent to a military prison. James Gandalfini is the warden of this prison.

And of course, because it's a prison movie, there needs to be an uprising of some sort. It's a fairly leaden drama, I thought, set inside of a prison. It was more entertaining than I was anticipating. Oh, okay. Yeah, I found the climax, you know, gave me a couple of, like, dirty dozen-ish great escape thrill. in that vein. Okay. And Robert Redford,

taking his shirt off and hauling those rocks across the courtyard. Fuck you, Robert Greta. And he's 60. He's 65 years old. It's fucking crazy. And it's not made in a lab,

either, that body, right? It's not made by machines. It's powerful. He's just built that way. Gendell Feeney's miscast, I think. I wish he could have been allowed to do more things like this,

even if this one isn't totally right. I totally agree. You know what I mean? Yeah. I do. Okay, the last castle's out. 2001 spy game. Now, I'll watch this for the first time yesterday.

Did you? Yeah. This is a film with a big fan base, and this is a, I guess, considered maybe mid-tier Tony Scott. This is something we talked about with Van recently. Brad Pitt and Robert Redford coming together, a sort of baton passing moment shortly after Brad Pitt and Harrison Ford's baton passing moment in the Devil's Zone with, with Alain Piccula, a movie a director that he worked with. Spy game, just kind of your typical. Spycraft movie, the sort of aging veteran who knows more than the young buck

and they're working together, but also can they trust one another? Right. Very kinetic and crazy Tony Scott filmmaking style. This movie also was a big success. This is a series of films in which he is still a huge box office star. Right. Heading into the early 2000s, some

four decades after he became a star. I like it. I don't have a strong feeling that it needs to be in. When it doesn't go in, all the bro. We'll be like, how could spy game not be? And just going to put that out there for you. Any thoughts?

You know I love the bros. I don't like this movie as much as I should, given that it is a Tony Scott spy craft thriller starring Robert Redford and Brad Pitt. That's just checking many boxes for me. And it always feels a little forced. But also that there is no real magic. There was something about, like, when a spy movie or a heist movie or anything when they are, like, are they going to pull it off, the tension and the, um, the sense of exhilaration. I, I don't have that, even though the camera is just going absolutely nuts around buildings the whole time. So I, I don't feel the need to fight for it. And I don't care about the bros as discussed.

Uh, Tony Scott, wow, he could really do that stuff, you know? It was, it was a, it was a real style that he had, real sense of style. It's interesting to why. watch that stuff now start to date, right? That stuff at the time seemed so sort of forward. He seemed like a futurist, yeah. This is the future of movies. And now you look at it and you go, oh, some of those sound effects and stuff, some of that stuff is starting to date.

The feature for the movie, for me, is Robert Redford. I think Redford is great at this movie. He is very good. It's really good, really watchable. It's not, it wouldn't be green for me. It's fun. I'm going to yellow it out of a sense of nostalgia. Okay.

I saw this movie in theaters in college. Had a nice time with my friends. 2004, The Clearing. I saw it. I watched it. I've never seen this. Nor have I. I watched it.

How was it? I liked it better than I thought I was going to like it. Okay. All the scene, Robert Redford is an executive who gets kidnapped by Willem Defoe. And Willem DeFoe is leading him out into the woods somewhere. And this is cross-cutting with Helen Mirren, who is, Robert Redford's wife, and she is trying to, you know, she's dealing with the FBI and putting together the ransom money. It's always crossing between the two stories. We come to realize at

some point that the Redford Defoe plotline is all happening in one day, whereas the Helen Mirren plotline is happening over a period of weeks and maybe even months, even though we're cross-cutting between the two things. Interesting. That's clever. It feels very much like a, like a French thriller from 1980 something, right? And I think if there were French actors playing the parts, it might be more respected. The director is Dutch, for the record. And it's his only film as a director, right? Peter Jan Bruges. The, but you know, you get to see Robert Redford and Willem DeFoe playing a lot of scenes together. Are they scenes that would really happen between a kidnapper and his victim? Probably not. But still, there are two very compelling actors

working with each other. And then there's Helen Mirren dealing with Alessandro Navolo, who plays their kid. And, you know, Helen Mirren's always very watchable. So, I don't know, I liked it better than I thought I was going to like it. It's not a great movie, but it doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame. Given that Amanda and I haven't seen it, it has to be read. That would be a first to put a movie in the Hall of Fame that we haven't seen. 2005, an unfinished life.

Watched it. This is a Lassa-Holstrom film. A Lassa-Holstrom joint. I like him, you don't like him, right? That's kind of, that's, we've found this divine. I think he's real soggy, yeah, yeah. I kind of enjoyed this, again, I like, did you watch it for this? I saw it when it came out, yeah.

Yeah, I didn't rewatch it either. Kind of liked it. I kind of enjoyed it. I thought, again, I thought Mr. Redford was very good. There's one too many plot lines. There's a little sentimental. The storyline about the abusive boyfriend played by Damien Lewis's very one note. But I thought Mr. Redford.

Mr. Redford seemed very engaged in this movie. He seemed really kind of into the material. I think we'll be able to say that about many of these performances that are coming. I think he got to a point in his life and in his career when part of his mission became, here's a person aging. Here's a way to age.

He aged on screen in a way that was very believable and real. I mean, obviously, he was an amazing shape and a movie star and all the rest of it. But his face, you could see it. His face, he didn't fuck with his face. He aged. He aged and he kept working, and he kept working in age-appropriate roles.

Unfinished life is not going in. I'm sorry to you and to Lassa. 2006, he voices Ike and Charlotte's Webb. That's the horse. The horse, yeah. And that, I mean, that makes all the sense in the world. From whispering to becoming, you know, really, horse guy. That's not going in.

2007 Lions for Lambs. I cannot recall being more excited for a movie in my life. Robert Redford directing Meryl Streep and Tom Cruise in a political drama loosely based on real-life events and the absolutely perilous state of our country at the time in the aftermath of the Iraq War in 9-11 when you are 25. And is also in the year in which Michael Clayton,

no country for old men, and there will be blood, and the assassination of Jesse James, and the whole host of 2007 movies are coming out. And I'm in that moment and thinking, has it ever been this good? And this movie stinks. It's so, so boring. Not good.

Yeah. It's not a good film. Okay. I don't know what happened. He directed it. I mean, it's not a good script. The performances are not good. It's startling.

Anyway, we can read it. 2010, The Conspirator. Didn't watch it And I'm working with the actor Who plays John Wilkes Booth in that movie He's a lovely guy named Toby Kevlo I love him. Oh, he's a good actor. Yeah, I really like him a lot

And he told me some good Robert Redford stories which we don't have time for on here But I didn't watch it. I don't know it. It's not bad. I think it's more pleased with its dramatic structure than it is being a good movie

And you can kind of feel Redford like kind of losing the juice a little bit as a filmmaker. It's a little shaggyer, I would say. than his early movies. Not bad, but not really worth writing home about. Did you see it? I didn't rewatch it.

I saw it when it came out because I was in a big James McAvoy phase of life. Still am. The company you keep, 2012, another film that he stars in and directs. This film, I cited this recently because of one battle after another, which, have you still not seen it?

I've not seen one battle after another. Just get it together, man. It's my failing, right? There's no good reason for it. Well, now it's overhyped, Now you're going to go in expecting the moon and the stars. I don't know what to fucking tell you. I'm having to watch all this Redford material.

Well, we appreciate you doing that. By the way, I've heard on recent pods Chris talking about... Chris who? Chris Ryan talking about randow stacked casts. He wants us... Yeah, you want it on that? I want this movie in consideration for randos stacked cast. This is a movie about...

a former member of the weather underground emerging some decades after the activities in the 1960s. Redford plays the man who has been working, I think, as a small town lawyer. Shia LaBuff is a reporter. Kind of stumbles on this man. And it's this question of sort of like,

what was the work for in the 60s? What does life mean in the aftermath of it? A little bit of running on empty going on there. And a little bit about like, what is privacy and what are you entitled to in the world? I think this is a really interesting movie. not perfect. Shia is

much more controversial now, but I think he's very good in this. And to your point, Nick Nolte, Susan Sarandon, and Julie Christie are all compatriots of his. Anna Kendrick is in this movie, a very young Anna Kendrick, a very young Britton Marling, Stanley Tucci, Chris Cooper, crazy cast. The trailer, you should watch

the trailer. You know how in the 80s and 90s, the trailer was like, they'd show you what the movie was going to be about in the first step. And then halfway through the trailer, they'd show you an actor you didn't know was in the movie. It was like, oh, holy shit, I didn't know Samuel Jackson was in this movie. The trailer for this keeps doing that. It does it so often it starts to look like too many cooks. It's just like, there's not enough interesting stuff for all these

people to do. I wish it was better. It's not bad. I wish it was better. There's some second act problems. It repeats it, right? He goes to one, oh, Sam Elliott. I don't think you mentioned Sam Elliott. He goes to one person and they say, well, you should go talk to this person. And then he goes and talks to that, well, you should go talk to this person. It starts to double back on itself in in a frustrating way. First and third acts are kind of interesting. I remember it being like,

okay, and interesting. It has kind of been outstripped in its subject matter by recent films. I think what this film reveals, which the conspirator reveals and even his next film reveals, is he's kind of lost the juice.

You know, he's lost the ability to make something an event. And that's just something that happens, right? That happens to everybody. You get to a certain stage in your career and you've had enough movies in a row. I think Lines for Lambs

really kind of deadened a lot of his might in the industry. And so the company you keep not a very big hit. In 2013, he's in this remarkable movie called All Is Lost, this J.C. Shandor movie in which he's the only person who appears. He's a man stranded on a boat in the middle of a storm, just trying to survive. And he's in his 70s when he makes this movie. 76, I think. And he gives a great performance. Yeah.

It's so good. And I mean, there's almost no dialogue. It is just him doing stuff. It is the genre of movie that started with Jeremiah Johnson of Robert Redford doing things you can't do And surviving Yes, and surviving

Now, there is a case for this movie in the whole fame Because it is the late stage Yeah I would say his last, maybe not his last grade There's a movie I like coming up as well There's another really good one Yeah

If we're going to do one like the last Robert Redford Okay, I'd like to yellow And that movie is Avengers M game Okay We're about to get to Marvel, don't worry No, all his loss is remarkable. We'll yellow it. Yeah, great.

2014 Captain America, the Winter Soldier. He plays Alexander Pierce. Mm-hmm. I didn't see it. What? Good movie. Good movie. Really good comic book movie, for sure.

So what is Alexander Pierce's role in the government at the, at, during Captain America, the winter soldier? I can't recall if he's the head of the CIA or the Secretary of Defense. Okay. Or he's, he's one of those critical decision makers. Okay. And it is revealed quite dramatically. Yeah, that's what I was going to ask. He's Hydra.

Right, okay. And he's a traitor to his country. Tracy's nodding knowingly. Yeah. And there's a three-days the Condor. They are trying. They're very, very. They would like it.

They're happy that you said that. Yeah. And the Russo's talked about that a great deal in the run-up to the film, that this was their conspiracy thriller. It's really just a pretty good action movie, I think, is a better way to describe it. Anyhow, that's not going in. A walk in the woods, Bill Bryce, an adaptation? I feel bad. I didn't see it. And Nick Offerman's in this movie. And now we're starting

to get into the weird area of movies that Mr. Redford made with actors I know. Yeah. And it's very You ignore your friend's work. Well, it's frustrating for me too because I never met him. I didn't get to work with him. I don't know. And so I'm jealous of Nick. I'm kind of surprised by that. I'm jealous of Toby. You know, I about 20, 25 years ago, I was doing some readings with Amy Redford, his daughter. We were just doing, you know, we were in a little group that was reading plays once a week in New York. And boy, I loved her. She was just so, such a lovely, thoughtful, talented person and didn't seem at all fucked up from being the daughter of an extravagantly famous person. He really liked her a lot. And of course, we know so many people who've gone through Sundance in

various forms. And he was very hands-on at Sundance. He wasn't just a figurehead. He was walking around with legal pads and giving notes and watching movies and stuff. He was very engaged in that work. Well, he came to be tortured by the festival in a lot of ways because of how big it became and how corporate it became, which was not at all his intention. And he talked about that all the time that he didn't like it. But he did. I mean, he asked Ryan Coogler. You know, like he was watching people's movies in the 2010s and giving them feedback. A walk in the woods is not going to go in. I know you just saw truth for the first time, which I think is just an awful. A terrible movie. I really think it's a complete misjudgment in terms of

that story is told. I like it better than you did. I think he's good in it. It's not really about Redford. It's the way that... Is it Mary McNamara? Mary Macs. Mayor Makes.

Excuse me. It's positioned in that movie and even Cape Lanchett's performance can mostly do no wrong for me. But I have like an allergy to that movie. Hmm. It's not going in. No, I wouldn't argue for it to go in.

It does ring the bell of the end of television journalism in this country. Sure. And especially the end. end of CBS journalism. And truly does. It's an important story.

I just don't think it's very well told. 2016 Pete's Dragon, the first of two movies he makes with David Lowry, Disney film. Nice performance from Redford. Okay. Who did he play? Pete's Dragon's boss. A local man who is helping, I think, his grandchildren. Okay.

One of whom has befriended a dragon. I just gave Disney a great idea. Okay. Pete's Dragon's boss. just cut that out so that we don't give that to them for free so then he can email Walt Disney's great-great-grandson

and we can get some cash for Tracy's Blu-ray collection 2017 The Discovery Have you seen this movie? No. No, I missed it. No. Oh, this is a pretty good movie. Him and Jason Siegel.

Again, a friend of mine who got to work with Redford, I didn't get to work with it. I even thought about calling a few of these people and saying, he got a good Robert Redford story, but then we don't have time. Okay, well, we can move on. I think the discovery is not a bad movie.

It's on Netflix right now. 2017 Our Souls at Night, you said you watched this? I did. I did as well. You did, yeah. Okay. Lovely. Not going in?

I don't think so. It's great. He reunites with Jane Fonda. It's sad. I think all, like, the neighbors and sons need to mind their own business. But they are, you know, they both continued to work well past, what we, you know, expect of, of movie stars, especially movie stars of their caliber. And, like, Jane, they are plausible old people in this.

You know, they're not trying to be, you know, versions of themselves in old people clothing. So they're good, and it was sad, but I don't think it needs to be in the Hall of Fame. Directed by Ritesh Batra, who made just a great movie called The Lunchbox. If you don't know it, you should absolutely watch The Lunchbox. horrific movie. And it's very much in the same mold. It's very gentle. It's very human. There's not a lot of event, but it's personal and it's really lovely. And I think they're both great in the movie. I would not put it. I don't think it's Hall of Fame. Not in the Hall of Fame. Yeah. 2018, The Old Man and the Gun. This is my most disappointed that I didn't get a chance. I didn't

get to it. This movie isn't A for me. It's wonderful. It's really, really good. It's really, really. Yeah. If you don't like this movie, I'll be stunned. And it's a great Redford performance. And, you know, and it had that magic. You were watching at the time, and you know, it's like, you know, one last game. And his performance has aspects of that, but it's still also very charming. And it's, I mean, it's very watchable. This is the one that I would put in for late period, Redford.

It is my favorite for sure. It's a certain kind of a... It is as though the guy from The Sting survives 45 years, 35 years, whatever it is, 45 years. years, and is still kind of hustling. Yeah. In this story, he's a bank robber who robs banks without any weapons. He just goes in and convinces people to give him money. And he's got tremendous charm.

He's losing his hearing in the film. And he's playing that disability really interestingly. He and Sissy SpaceX have amazing chemistry together. I love this movie. This is one of my favorite movies. I'm friendly with David Lowry, but this is really, I think, an excellent film. Well, I have nobody to blame but myself. I just didn't get to it.

I ran out of time. Maybe on the plane right home. Maybe. If you haven't had your fill. 2019 Avengers Endgame, this final screen performance. No, I'm sorry. I'm really not trying to be cute. Is this the one Carrie is in?

Is Carrie in a movie with Robert Redford? No, she's in Infinity War, right? Yes. And then she didn't successfully negotiate to get her into Endgame? I don't want to start that all up again. To the aggregators, Tracy Letts has said here that the Marvel Corporation screwed his family at the house and home. Oh, my God.

They just did a hologram. Did you like that? That's fucked up. They just did a hologram. Right? Or they did a hologram or something ever? I think a different person voiced it. I've not seen it so I don't.

Oh, okay. Let's watch it after this. We've been sitting here for three hours. You can sit down for another three. You know, I read those Avengers comic books when I was a kid. I loved them. I was a big fan of the Avengers. The old man in the gun will make yellow for the moment.

Avengers End game is not going to be green. Much to the dismay of the ring or hers. No, one very short scene. It's cute, though. The scene that he's in his, and kind of, it is actually quite critical to the movie. And he's Hydra? Still in that? And you know what they say when you're in Hydra.

What? Hail Hydra. Oh, okay. He whispered each other's here. They say, hail Hydra. You cut off a head and two heads grow back? Well, that's the idea, yes. But Hydra is a secret organization, a shadow operation,

operating right underneath the surface of the American government. It starts with agents of Shield, right? In the comics, I think it started in Agents of Shields. Nick Fury. Okay. McFury is played by Sam Jackson. He's a critical figure in these stories. Yeah, I read these comics.

What happens to Robert Redford's character, Alexander Paine? He has a very... Pierce. Sorry, excuse me, apologies to Alexander Payton. No, that would be an interesting way. He has a toured affair with Jimmy Moore at the end of the film. Weird. Weird.

It's unexpected. It's odd stroke from Marvel, but something they wanted to do. He paid her a million dollars. Hopefully he made more than that. So we stopped greening things in 1980. Right. I have to pee. Leave that in.

Okay, we got to figure this out now. So I'm just going to read you the greens that we've selected already, okay? The greens right now, as it stands, are Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, downhill racer, the sting, the way we were three days of the condor, all the president's men, and ordinary people. That's seven films. Oh. There are quite a few yellows I'm going to read them to you right now. Jeremiah Johnson, the candidate, the hot rock, a river runs through it.

Sneakers, indecent proposal, quiz show, spy game. All is lost, the old man and the gun. That's ten yellows. We have to choose three. Now, keep this in mind. You can choose one, and you can also choose a blue for yourself. that you're bringing with you in your satchel and you're saying

I can show you in the museum all this beautiful work from Robert Redford but if you come over here and look in my bag I've got this beauty and show it off when you read that list of yellows my immediate reaction is well the candidate's the best movie

I would agree I agree and I will say let's do that together we'll make that green that's green that's very easy that's very easy now this is a challenge I'd like to hear your your takes

do you want to go to bat for anything in particular Rip to the yellows one more time Jeremiah Johnson The Hot Rock A River runs through it sneakers Indecent Proposal Quiz Show

Spy game All is lost And the old man in the gun I know what my two would be But again I don't It's your podcast My two would be Jeremiah Johnson

Quisho. Okay. Okay. What would your two be? I was going to suggest that we do Jeremiah Johnson for Tracy because he felt strongly about that. Wonderful. And Quist show is nice, but I really like the old man in the gun, personally.

And we don't, we currently still end at 1980. So. I would do that. I would say Jeremiah Johnson goes in. Yeah. The old man in the gun goes in. And then there's room for blue. Yeah.

The fact that I've not seen one of the 10 movies on the list is all on me. Okay. And not on you or on Mr. Redford. Now, if you guys feel strongly about that, you should do it. Now, that means that there is no sneakers and no the natural on this list. Which we did not even yellow. Would you like to give a yellow to the natural? Maybe it probably should be a yellow.

Okay, all right, give it a yellow. That's a pretty important movie in his career. That's fine. Look, if the green. is not real. Isn't the yellow even less real? Good news. Nothing is real. And this is all a fantasy. This is all sprung from a sad boy's mind. I'm comfortable with everything you're talking about it. I mean, it really is... If you could choose one more, what would you choose? Would you choose up close and personal? No, I think that I would probably do either Hot Rock or indecent proposal.

Okay, so you'll take a decent proposal because I'll take the hot rock What will you choose? Will you choose Quishow? Yeah, I'll put Quishow in my satchel. Yeah, that's a good, that's representative. So your hope here... You're saying everybody got the answers, but you?

Are you more of a Charles Van Doren? Like, who do you relate to most in that film? Paul Schofield. And you're going to say that. Yeah. I've been pod with you too long. I think that's it. Yeah. How do you feel, Amanda?

I feel okay. So we have, you know, as editors and writers and people constructing, it's, we have nine movies from 1969 to 1980. But isn't that often the case with you guys constructing these lists? People hit the sweet spot, right? Newman had a nice spread. This is a pretty unusual concentration of, which is in keeping with the career. Like, to me, this list tells no lies.

But, you know, I suppose people will be miffed that sneakers didn't even get a blue. Just not one of my movies. The natural is going to be the thing that people are going to bang about. Okay. Well, they can start a podcast, you know? That's a healthy way to create a dialogue. If you would like to, pun intended, go to back for it right now. I literally don't have...

Why does she shoot him? I don't remember I'm sure there's a good reason Let me let me test a couple of things Okay Do you guys believe Just straight up Old Man in the Gun

versus All Is Lost Are you It's a personal preference thing And I would prefer the old man You lean toward me too All is lost Possibly a better Possibly a more challenging

And interesting performance But Old Man in the Gun I think ultimately a more enjoyable film and I think he's used very well Ordinary people The only director credit Are you guys comfortable with that In the Hall of Fame?

Well, you've got Quisho and your blues and I Yeah, Quisho I love. Quisho also not available on Blu-ray. What the fuck? Okay, I'm good with that. You look good. No, I just, I'm, you know, examining

You've got the way we were, right? Yeah. You've got... You know what was really moving was you guys all saying, like, downhill racer, of course. Downhill racer rules. Okay, great. And we need to be interesting and we need to speak to our passions. I couldn't agree more.

I think that just about does it. So let's just for the public record, we're going to read the greens. Do you want to read the greens, Amanda? I'd love to. Okay. We have Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, Downhill Racer, Jeremiah Johnson, the candidate, the sting, the way we were, three days of the condor, all the president's men, ordinary people, and the old man and the gun. My blue pick is the hot rock.

What's your blue pick? Indecent proposal. What's yours? Whiz show. Where can we find you, Tracy Letts? What do you, like, what do you, what do you, what do you want to, is there anything you're working on you like to promote? I'm not here to promote it.

Okay. You've given it an unusual amount of time to this project. I love this podcast. I love both of you so much. I wasn't fishing here. No, that's why I did it because I love you guys and I love this podcast. I love being here and being part of this. Well, we love you, too.

Yes, thank you for doing it. You know who never says that at the end of an episode is Chris Ryan? He never says that. And in the race for third chair, there's a clear leader right now. There you go. Yeah, what's his name? Three-name director. Paul Thomas Anderson.

No, no, no. Your friend who does this podcast. Alex Ross Perry. Does he say that at the end of a podcast? Alex has never said anything nice to me ever. He just makes a lot of memes of Sean. And yet he's lobbying to be part of the high counts. Is that well?

I mean, a lot of people want to be a part of the high accounts. You can't believe the number of mostly men who would like to join us the next time we do this, that podcast, which will be not soon. That sounded disrespectful to Alex Ross Perry. I don't mean to disrespect. I'm a true friend of mine. I'm a 60-year-old man blanking on a name after a three-hour podcast. No, no, no. He needs to earn the right to be invited to that discussion.

And he can start by kissing my ass on my own show. And until he does so, until he does so for Amanda, he'll have to observe the council through a window. Thanks for our producer, Jack Sanders, for his work on today's episode. We'll be back next week. So we're recording this in the past and in the future on the Monday after this. Okay. We will be doing a watch-along podcast watching the film Avatar, The Way of Water.

Oh, my God. Have you seen the film? No, no, no. Neither is Chris Ryan. Chris has never seen it for the first time. Is that, wait a minute. He's watching it for the first time. Well, yeah.

Yes. But has he seen the first one? No. Well, we'll see if he will have seen it before then. Oh, okay. But maybe he won't. All right. What do you think about that?

See you then. You know,