The Big Picture - The Second Annual Alternative Academy Awards (a.k.a. The Big Picks!), With Wesley Morris

Episode Date: April 20, 2021

Let’s run back a new tradition: our Alternative Academy Awards with The New York Times’ Wesley Morris. Sean, Amanda, and Wesley pick their favorite performances, first features, cameos, endings, and more as a counterbalance to this week’s Oscars ceremony.  Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guest: Wesley Morris Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Press Box is here to catch you up on the latest media stories. Hosted by Brian Curtis and David Shoemaker, these guys have the insight on the biggest stories you care about. Check out The Press Box on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Sean Fennessey. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about the big picks. That's right.

We're running back a new tradition from last year. Today, we celebrate our Alternative Academy Awards with our pal, the co-host of Still Processing and critic at large for The New York Times. It's Wesley Morris. Wesley, what's up? Hello. Wow. How's it going?

Just a razor beam of energy there. Thank you. It's going well. Amanda, how are you doing? I'm doing well. Guys, it's Oscars there. Thank you. It's going well. Amanda, how are you doing? I'm doing well. Guys, it's Oscars week. Are you excited? Are you levitating with joy about the portent of the Oscars?

Yes? No? Wesley, no. It seems like no. No. I mean, I've learned at this point. I have so many mixed feelings about this. And it's funny because I just have a lot of mixed feelings.

I don't know if you guys are as ambivalent. It's not even that I'm ambivalent, although that is almost literally the definition of ambivalence. I just feel like my feelings are so strongly mixed and so much, they go in one direction very intensely and they go in this other direction very intensely. But I mean, we'll talk about it. I don't know.

I mean, I feel like, I just don't, I don't know. I don't know anything. I don't know anything. Amanda, I feel like we were really animated on this show by the Oscars race last year, which was 14, 15, 16 months ago now. Feels like it was closer to 12 years. And it's obvious that there's less interest this year, that there is what feels like a slowdown in momentum for the Academy Awards. Has it picked

up at all for you now that we're right on the precipice of it? I got to tell you, I'm glad to have Steven Soderbergh back in my life for the three to five days until the Oscars actually happen. And then we have to talk about who won and who lost and whether it worked or not. Like I just, Steven Soderbergh giving interviews is where I want to be in 2021. So I'm enjoying it. You and I were texting about his press conference this weekend. He gave an interview

along with his co-producers of the Oscars and the Hollywood Reporter as well. And I'm trying to find the silver linings. What did he say? Well, he outlined the plans for the Oscars, which maybe you've heard about them. There's going to be no Zoom. Yes. Everyone has to be either in union station where the nominees and one guest are allowed or they're doing they're doing it in union station yes oh well that's kind of that kind of warms my heart a little bit they're trying they okay and they're going to be satellite locations for international nominees. I believe there's one in London, one in Paris, possibly a couple others, with the hope that if people for COVID reasons can't get to LA, that they'll be able- Kazakhstan as well, for Borat.

For Borat. Oh, boy. So they're not doing Zoom. Huh. There's an emphasis on production values which i really appreciate and i would just like to read this quote from steven soderbergh the biggest logistical challenge for the whole show is figuring out how to incorporate the people who can't be in union station in a way that is consistent with our very rigorous and specific aesthetic approach to the

show and you know what same all i am trying to do is figure out how to incorporate people in a way that is consistent with my very rigorous and specific aesthetic approach. Okay. I just, that's, that's everybody's challenge in life. So thank you, Steven Soderbergh for laying it out for us and trying to solve the problem. They did do one other remarkable thing, which again, it feels like Steven is programming specifically for Amanda, but they moved all of the musical performances to a pre-show. So they are no longer a part of the ceremony. Well, that seems fitting. I mean, it seems fitting for him to do that.

I am. So, okay. This is exciting me in a number of ways. I have a lot of feelings about the streets of the Oscars as a body that refuses to understand what the actual problems are and also as a body that is also innocent of the problems that befall it. The

Academy doesn't make movies. People in the Academy make movies. They're kind of stuck with what their options are voting-wise and show-wise. Like, I don't think anybody's going to watch this show, but the show that Steven Soderbergh is trying to give us seems, I mean, I'm excited to see what that is. I just, it's not going to be the thing that brings 40 million people back to the broadcast. That is definitely true. So that's like one last thing I want to hit on

before we start giving out some awards of our own is, you know, Amanda and I talk about this all the time, a bit ad nauseum, frankly, but do you think that that matters? Like, obviously award show ratings are down across the board. There's a clear understanding that the ratings for this show

will be way down this year, in part because of the films, in part because of the board, there's a clear understanding that the ratings for this show will be way down this year, in part because of the films, in part because of the pandemic, in part because of the nature of live television, all these various reasons we can cite. But is that ultimately a very bad thing for movies if Oscar ratings are way down? This is a little bit like cart before the horse or chicken and egg or carrot and stick. Like, I feel like it's bad for the movies that the movies are the way they are. And as a consequence, it's bad for the Academy Awards, right? You know, I think that every award show that we've gotten during the pandemic, well, not everyone, but all the major ones, except the Golden Globes,

I think, you know, like the Emm major ones, except the Golden Globes. I think, you know, like the Emmys I thought were fantastic as a production. I loved the Grammys choice of having that like, quote, garage band, unquote, thing happen at the opening of the show. And having these artists sort of sit there and watch each other. I loved that.

So, I mean, I think, you know, I'm curious to see what Soderbergh, I'm curious to see what a Soderbergh Academy Awards looks like, but that still doesn't solve the movies problem, right? That doesn't solve the fact that there is an entire middle of movie-going culture that just doesn't exist. That the people who make our movies don't really care about missing

at all. And, you know, my big pet peeve is the so-called Oscar movie. I mean, it's not my big one, but it's one of them. I don't like the fact that there is now the idea that like for instance these eight movies i can just dismiss in some ways despite how how good

like one or two at all there's more than two that are good but like very good there's two i would say very good movies of these um but they're still easily taxonomizable and like subsequently or consequently like dismissible um as a ignorable though that's the thing right it's like people are going to ignore this award ceremony because they have largely ignored these movies it's not that they have said i hate these movies they've just, this doesn't mean anything to me. It doesn't mean anything to me because the people know that, I mean, the people now know that the Academy Awards has no interest in the people, right? So it always leaves the people who make the show in this shitty position of being, of having to like cater to an audience that's not going to come.

They're not showing up. The movies aren't making movies for people to watch the Oscars to see now. And that isn't about, if I were my 10 movies every year or your 10 movies, are 30 movies, and I'm sure there'd be some overlap, but those wouldn't be the movies that bring the people in either. But the fact of the matter is we would have had the option to not select those movies among the... Actually, I'm sure that we would pick several things that would probably wind up at the Oscars.

But the point is that there is a whole universe of movie that no longer exists that was always at the Academy Awards. Some years, all five movies were hits that the people made hits. And there was some investment when it came time to watch the show because you saw a bunch of these movies and you do kind of want to know if the one that you like best or the two that you like best are going to win. One thing about that, I'd be curious to hear from both of you guys what you think about this

because there is this tension, this contradiction in that very idea that you're talking about, Wesley, which is that now, obviously, the Academy and Hollywood itself is going through this convulsive period where it's attempting to more accurately reflect diverse voices and not necessarily strictly spotlight the same old story that we've been hearing over

and over again. But those stories don't, are not necessarily resonating in exactly the same way that say gladiator might. And so inevitably what you get is you get this sort of regression or this, this, this shrinking of an audience because people who historically represented the broader tastes of the movie going public and maybe even the academy

because the academy is changing, because Hollywood is changing, you have this difficult conversation. It's frankly hard to navigate. Is the progress also reducing the power of the body? Again, to echo Wesley, I don't really think that it's the fault of the progress and the fact that these movies are being made and or the Academy's fault. I mean, there is no gladiator this year. What would gladiator be? I guess the closest thing would be Tenet and everyone hated it. And then they didn't submit it because Christopher Nolan was mad that it didn't get put into a, you know, the theater and then he trashed HBO max and they only, whatever,

like it's a mess. So some of it is just that it's not there. And to me, the real problem is, is that movies aren't the center of the culture anymore because of streaming and because of, you know, the giant MCU of it all. And so the Oscars are in the position of not just advocating for the industry, but for the specific movies themselves, because people aren't encountering them unless they are actually Oscar nominated. Like I think many people are seeing these films for the first time because, oh, it's nominated for an Oscar. Okay. They're Oscar movies. I will learn how to download Hulu, in the case of my in-laws, in order to be able to watch Nomadland. And so, again, that's not great for the Oscars in the rating sense, because they're having to be like the

engine driving people to these movies and rather than having the popularity of the movies, bring people to the Oscars. And meanwhile, all of these movies are just kind of floating around in the streaming space with everything else that we can watch all of the time. And there's just no way to break out I think the positive side of that is that it does make room for films and filmmakers who were not previously included in the in the Oscars and if like people are talking about some of these movies I mean that is a result of a broken system that has nothing to do with the movies. But I don't know. I'm glad to be able to talk about Minari. I'm glad to be able to talk about

Judas and the Black Messiah. Like I, so I don't know why I'm trying to put a positive spin on something. Yeah, I don't know why. I don't know why. I think it's the Soderbergh glow. I mean, the other thing is also, because the other option is like,

no one cares and why are we here? You know, there are so many ironies in this, right? Like, isn't it incredibly ironic that the person who gave this unforgettable, really important speech about the end of the movies, when was that, 2015? No, it was earlier than that. It was 2013. It was pre-retirement, I want to say. Yeah, the San Francisco International Film Festival,

his keynote speech is all about demise and compromise and bad corporate choices and industrial bad taste and how it's disturbing people like him, like Steven Soderbergh, who is on the side of Hollywood in the historical scheme of things, right? Aesthetically, he's on Hollywood's side, right? This is a guy who is making exactly the kind of movie that no longer matters anymore to the people who make our movies. And here he is now basically holding a diaper over a butt that really can't control its bowels. And I think that is so messed up that one of our great filmmakers is going to probably put on a really good show

for this industry that doesn't even appreciate what he does anymore, right? And on top of that, you are now going to turn over the keys to the so-called kingdom to all these non-white people and all these women. And the thing that they're making is no longer at the center of, oh, we're done. We've maxed it out. We've, there's, you know what?

It's, we, it's your turn, really. By all, by all means, we have driven this car into the ground. Take the keys and drive off. It's just, it's nauseating. It's just nauseating. If you really think about what is happening right now, and I'm not even,

I mean, I'm not, I'm being a little bit cynical about it. I'm mostly just mad. And I just can't, I don't know how we, well, I do know how we got to this point, but I can't believe we're at this point where the movies really just don't matter in a meaningful, artistic, or cultural way anymore. But there are these other things that come in movie packaging that are the priorities. I mean, that's obviously been one of the core themes of conversation for Amanda and I, frankly, over the last two years. Yes. And we are playing a part in that. Please listen to the Ringerverse podcast

where we have very bright people talk about The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, which has completely absorbed all of television and movie culture and is now making it on its own terms yeah i mean but can i can we go back to 1986 for one second can you imagine if there were podcasts in 86 and people were having devoting entire 45-minute conversations to Jake and the fat man. I know. I know. But that's what's happening.

Because that's what that show really is. I mean, it's just a CBS show from 1986 or 85 or 84. With all due respect to the people who love it, I'm not here to judge the love. I'm just putting this on a continuum. Do you feel any relief in the sense that that stuff has like made it to TV and made it to like it's CBS origins and like that's a TV show. It's not a movie. It's on a streaming network. It's in it.

Like I understand what it's cost us. And basically it's wrecked the entire movie industry before we passed the buck to these other people. I'm not watching Falcon and the Winter Soldier. I hear it's good. It's just like, I don't. It is not good.

It's fine. It's fine. I don't know. Like I said, Wesley, I'm not watching it. I just listened to the watch and they're having like the same existential breakdown that we're having about TV.

Like, you know, three, five years later. And I'm like, oh, okay. Like now,

now that's your problem and and maybe movies can be this weird thing again maybe we've made it to the bottom and and it's not the case i know it's not the case that's not what's gonna happen because the only movie that's made any money in the united states in the year 2021 is godzilla versus kong which is the same story i again not i like falcon the winter soldier. Godzilla vs. Kong was a decent diversion from the day-to-day of my life. But when we go back, we're not going back for Let Them All Talk

and the beautiful, dramatic stories of Steven Soderbergh. We're going back for event movies. And that's frankly all that it's going to be, which is something that we know. How does the Academy effectively address that? I don't know. I don't know if... Is the Academy going to get really excited about Dune the Academy effectively address that? I don't know.

I don't know if... Is the Academy going to get really excited about Dune? Maybe they will. If they don't, that's probably not good for the Oscars. Some people might not feel like they have no other choice, right? But again, I mean, I just kept thinking about how much worse these nominees could be. You know?

I just kept thinking, well, there are things they did not nominate that they theoretically could be. You know? I just kept thinking, well, there are things they did not nominate that they theoretically could have. Now look, Trial of the Chicago 7, I actually thought it was a TV movie before it started coming up

in all these pundit conversations. And I was like, wait, that counts? Okay. Sure. You didn't know it actually qualified? Right. No, You didn't know it actually qualified? Right.

No, I didn't have any idea that it was eligible for the Academy Awards. And then it just started, people kept bringing it up, like, Sacha Baron Cohen could win Best Supporting Actor. I'm like, for what? Is this a Keith Stanfield, Daniel Kaluuya situation where, like, Kazakhstan or, like, Rudy Giuliani is the star of Borat. No, they were talking about Trial of Chicago 7. And I was like, oh man. Okay, so we are in a really unique place. But I do think that these eight movies, they just could have been worse there could have been like three or four other movies in this mix that that i mean like what is that news of the world like that could have been a best picture nominee and i really would have thrown something across the room and it would not it would not have been a pen a lot of this obviously is up to the fact that tons of stuff was pushed there was tons of

stuff that was supposed to come out at the end of last year that simply did not come out and some of it is typical oscars nonsense you know some of it is misreading the intentions of a film and rewarding those intentions there are some movies here that i really like i mean i amanda you mentioned judas and minari wesley i must say i listened to you and bill talk about judas and i was like i have no idea what movie you guys are talking about like i just did not see that movie in the same way that you did at all. But that's okay. You don't think it's a two-hour action movie about like a spy in the house of blackness? Yeah, but doesn't that sound like an interesting film? I don't know.

No, it doesn't. Because I'm really more interested in the spy and the movie's more interested in the action. And I just think that it doesn't have any interest in any of the politics of what that means it it should have been it should be 10 hours or entirely about um what lakeith stanfield's character whose name is now just left my brain willie william o'neill yeah bill o'neill right right right um that's an interesting example though where you know it sounds like that movie

simply would not have been made if it was what you're suggesting. I mean, maybe it could have been made for Netflix as a TV show. That is what my inbox is telling me. Yeah, yeah. That's what I've heard as well. But is that not enough

is an interesting conversation. And that's particularly a movie which I think was made with some commercial terms in mind because it has that action movie feeling. And if this were a traditional Oscar season, is that a movie that if it did not debut on a streaming platform, would people have shown up for that movie? With two young movie stars that people seem to like, that have some cool set pieces, that has some provocative ideas.

In a different time, I feel like that's a movie that could have performed differently where are the provocative ideas though i just don't get it like just making a movie about a black panther is is provocative i just don't i just i do not understand what the i don't know i don't know who but who but who are you talking to that because there are many people who just don't know anything about the Black Panthers or their history and so it would be eye-opening for I'm not gonna learn anything from any people I Wesley I I really like the movie as well but the Lakeith character is definitely like the exposition machine. And I wonder sometimes whether that was in, whether that's the filmmaking or whether there's some performance choices in that one.

That was my takeaway from it where I was like, I don't know if I am totally getting everything that is supposed to be going on here, but I like, it's at least something to talk about. Oh, I love talking about, I mean,

I love meeting all these people who love that movie i i there it's my it's one of my favorite conversations i and you know there is something there right shaka king is a good director um i just you know we are i'm talking about this movie on the terms at which it was made right like i'm not i'm not i mean i do wish it was made, right? Like, I'm not, I mean, I do wish it was more than it is, but I'm being respectful of the movie I was given. Yeah. And I think that,

you know, there's nothing, there's no redeemable conversation to be had about Trial of the Chicago 7, for instance. Like, I'm happy to debate the problem with Nomadland

that I have. Because, you know, I'm meeting that movie on the terms at which it was made um do you want to share some of that before we start talking about other things that we would have awarded because that obviously has been a conversation that film is at the forefront of the race it's a um do you guys think it's gonna win I well I'll I'll foreground it by saying I've gotten best picture wrong five years in a row and I don't know what I'm talking about

but it certainly seems by all accounts you didn't call Green Book no no well I have a history of trying to like yeah

like I predicted Get Out would win and like that was just insane that was just me really hoping and praying something crazy would happen yeah at the very last minute

doing wishful thinking yes what do you think Amanda I'm not a great gambler and i so i think yes just because i think that this has been a year that people aren't paying enough attention for there to be a level of intrigue and some sort of late surge of being like oh sure i'll you know vote for something else i just i i think it really is kind of just like checking boxes a little bit and'll vote for something else. I think it really is kind of

just like checking boxes a little bit. And it seems to be the box that everyone's checking. Huh. I do think that it's speaking to people, right? I feel like the movie, the thing about all of these movies that is kind of annoying to me is that they are very palatable, right? They're really safe. And I think that I don't, I mean, I guess if I'd sat here, if we wanted to make this a conversation all about like the ways, all the corners that a movie like

Judas and the Black Messiah has to cut in order to be interesting to 9,000 people in the Academy, sure. But I think that it's fascinating to me that Nomadland, Minari, Judas and the Black Messiah, Trial of the Chicago 7, Mank. I mean, all these movies are just,

they're mild versions of the more extreme thing that's lurking within these movies, right? But isn't that the case 90% the time with the academy awards but but but the thing about this bunch of movies is there isn't it's not like there's some other big pop thing to offset that right and so you really can focus on how much in common this batch of movies has with respect to how little of the envelope is being pushed. And the thing about Nomadland is, again, excellent filmmaker. You can watch this movie and just like you are certain that the person who made it knows what they're doing. And you want to see, and I don't know, I mean, you want to see what this person, what else this person is going to do. Or like, what else has this person already done?

Because it also feels like a movie made by a person who's been making movies for a long time. It's got a kind of wisdom, but what it doesn't have for me is a sense of understanding about what is driving these people. Or it kind of shifts the emphasis on what's driving these people, what's making this a community. And I'm just like, oh, okay. Well, if you're all just missing people that's fine but you're the way you've presented this world to me is like as a as a like as a political act right as a as like there's a kind of rage underneath you know some of these people and i just don't i just don't believe it and i think if there is rage it's misplaced and it seems like Amazon is doing this woman a favor.

Yeah. Well, that's keeping her afloat. That's a complexity that's been a part of that conversation. I'll say I just disagree with what you just outlined. And to me, it's not rage. It's very much like the aimlessness that grief inspires. And that when you have loss and then you're like, I don't know what to do, but it's a very private decision. That to me is what the Fern character is. She's basically trying to figure out what she wants her life to be

and that she meets this community of people who feel very much in keeping. Maybe they don't have the exact same experiences. But there is a mournfulness for a way of life that she no longer has, right?

And it's not only because her husband died. And I think all these people are lamenting the passing of something that is greater than an individual person. It's just that the emotional emphasis that we as an audience are meant to identify with is, is, is grief, um, is like, you know, um, um domestic grief not professional or cultural grief um but but that is lurking in the background of this movie and i just feel like it is it is it is it is aggravatingly untapped every year there is inevitably a series of narratives around certain films that are leading

the pack about what the kind of inherent or key flaw is with the movie. And this year it's the treatment of Amazon, the portrayal of Amazon as a part of this story. Amanda, we haven't really talked about that very much on this show. I'm curious kind of what you think about it now that there's been a lot of reporting and a lot of conversation around it. Yeah, I think Wesley, I'm closer to Sean's interpretation and there's a very specific reason for it, which is how Sean and I saw this film. And I don't know whether you, I don't know where you saw it, but we, well, okay.

I mean, I do think there are a couple. On an Amazon platform. There we go. Sean and I were both invited to a screening screening i believe it was like kind of a telluride screening right sean that they weren't able to have the festival and so they did like a huge event um at the rose bowl here in los angeles and it was a fancy drive-in event and there were free food trucks and you got stuff brought to your car and it was very well run. And it was at a moment in the kind of Los Angeles COVID experience where I guess the count was lower and it was people were feeling a bit looser and there was like a DJ.

And it was like one very clear that was like a CNBC awards event. It was like, oh, OK, this is what we're doing. And then it was attended by a huge number of LA Power players in very fancy cars. And you sat in my pretty nice car, relatively speaking, and then looked at all of the other fancy cars and watched this movie. And then, and I was aware of my circumstances and I was incredibly aware of all of the political valences that I agree are not front and center. That's not what she is like serving you on a platter, but it's there if you're looking for it. And it just

might be my various guilt manifesting itself, which, you know, is that happens every day in a lot of different ways. But I, I thought that the Amazon stuff and the political consequences or not consequences, but circumstances of these characters was like very evident. And I don't know, it's like she works for Amazon, but you also see her like shitting in a bucket in a van like multiple times. Like, you know, it's there and it's and, you know, that's me. And I do think it was affected by how I watched it. And I got a long email from my dad that feels exactly the way that you did about having watched it because it's not it's not hitting that button of being like, this is why. But I would say that my problem isn't that I don't care how the movie treats Amazon, actually. I think Amazon, like, thank God for Amazon, because these people, I mean, you know, Fern in particular in this movie, but like the many people

who work there, I mean, those people love that, like, there are people who love their jobs and are grateful to have their jobs. My problem isn't with Amazon. My problem is that you spend all this time with this person and you don't really know what the deal is with anything. And then you get the scene at the sisters. And I think the scene at the sisters is, is the worst sequence in the movie because it takes all the mystery out. You get like,

I'd spent the whole movie actually wondering like, what is Fern's deal? Like, is this, is this a psychological condition? Cause there are other people who are living this life. What is this? What is the state?

Um, what is this culture about? And once you get to the sister and they have, they like, they literalize this thing that I had been perfectly content to keep mysterious in some way. And they, you know, they attempt to sort of then psychologize her. And then she has to get on a soapbox

or like the sister gets on a soapbox on her behalf. And, you know, it's a choice that she has made. And the idea that like, this is a lifestyle choice for these people and not a thing that has befallen them. It just took, it just became a different movie to me. And not one that I liked less, but I just felt like it was somehow safer to me when you can just say that these are people who've made a lifestyle choice, that it's a culture. They're like cousins of the Harley Davidson people or something, right?

I find that much easier to reconcile than I would the many different things that would have brought a different group of people who weren't just mourning the loss of a spouse together. And the scary energy of the alternative version of this movie, which isn't about domestic grief, is the thing that I have in my mind that I guess I'm kind of also maybe relieved I didn't get. I don't know. But that it walks this sort of middle line

the whole time and is really just about a nice movie, a truly well-made nice really well-acted movie about friendship and and community okay not not not no blade cuts more sharply than the phrase a nice movie that's not what you don't want to make a nice movie i i i mean i think that you have put your finger on something but again like i basically interpreted it completely differently the scene that you're talking about where she returns to her sister's place and they have this sort of disagreement and fern becomes is hurt and then sort of like explains herself and stands on ceremony that appeared to be like a defense mechanism to me and it showed like a sense of like unwilling to kind of reckon with some of the feelings that she has or at least like attempt to describe her experience in a way that would push people

away rather than bringing them in because she's in this very painful period of her life. And I thought that was effective. And it's also very true to the Frances McDormand kind of character type. It was very in keeping with the kind of hard-nosed, independent woman that she so often portrays so it worked for me but again like that requires you to interpret as opposed to accept and even a lot of this conversation is basically like what could these movies have been versus what they are and we don't control that unfortunately and i think that one of the things that sort of makes it makes this i think it's the oscar-ness of it that also is sort of it's not shaping how

i feel about the movie but i do think that like the idea that this is going to be your best picture winner means that you know it could not have been your best picture winner had it done x y or z right um like had it not had the scene at the sisters, one wonders, you know, because you, you are then, you, you then understand that there is, there is a fire burning in this a vagabond and like wants to stay that way is interesting to me but then i think about a movie like ken loach's sorry we missed you which is the the other side of this in some ways where i mean that really is a screed against amazon or the amazon you know business model um that is destroying lives and families. And as, as Jeremiah go, you know,

I don't know that I needed Chloe Zhao to make a tract, but I don't know. I feel like part of the reason, you know, there's no way that Ken Loach is ever going to the Academy Awards is basically what I'm saying. Right. And part of it is because he's never going to the Academy Awards is basically what I'm saying. Right. Um, and part of it is because he's never going to,

he's still going to give you a, a movie about a family that's going to break your heart. But the thing that like the heart isn't just big, isn't, isn't being broken. There's a giant mallet, like smashing each one of the people's in that family's hearts, you know,

over and over and over again, the last shot of that movie. Oh my God. Um, anyway. Yeah. I, I don't know. I don't know. It's, it's kind of not fair to know Matt land to compare it to, but, but it's not unfair. They're just organized on different terms. You know, one, one is made by a filmmaker who's about to make, um, an MCU movie who, and this film was produced for searchlight, which is owned by a filmmaker who's about to make an MCU movie. And this film was produced for Searchlight, which is owned by Disney. That feels like a low blow.

And it's not a low blow because I like MCU movies. It's probably the most out of anybody on this podcast. Right. I don't... But Ken Loach would never. Ken Loach would never make a studio drama,

let alone an MCU movie. So it's difficult to compare the two. I would love to see Ken Loach do Dazzler. Would watch. Maybe Kevin Feige has that up his sleeve. You never know. So No Man's Land is going to win, so that's

a spoiler alert um let's talk about some movies that we wish were recognized and or nominated in certain categories we did this last year we made up a bunch of categories let's do the first category which is best first feature, which truly, truly should be a category at the Oscars. And I don't know when they're going to introduce it. They really should, because I think it would do wonders for introducing new voices into this space without all of the anxiety of best picture. But they should maybe call it best first feature soon to be doing you know what. Exactly the chloe xiao eternals award for best independent feature as you prepare for your first studio job um here are the nominees listed

just i do want to say something about this because i feel really guilty and i feel like not knowing where things were headed in like 2015, you know, 14 and like complaining all the time about the fact that the tractor beam was sucking up all these young American directors to, to, to do the bidding of IP and franchise, um, work, um, or the, you know, IP franchise hegemony, I now, I can't blame these people because you want to make things and what are you supposed to do, right? I mean, and I don't know. I just want to be clear about my, I don't begrudge anybody the option to do that. I just also feel like um it's just it just sucks for the audience

because there's just so many there's so many additional things so let me let me just say one thing about that wesley because look at the arc of coogler's career so far. Fruitvale Station, independent film about a very important story, a true life story that is representative of something terrible in this country and in this world.

Creed, IP, but IP that modernizes and diversifies IP and revives an old franchise. He had a reason to do it. You watch the movie and understand that the person who made it had a reason to do you watch the movie and understand that the person who made it had a reason for doing it exactly black panther historic in many ways i like it

you could be critical of it but it obviously was a massive extraordinary worldwide success and now we look at the next phase of his career he's obviously making another black panther movie but he produced judas and the black messiah which while it may not live up to the standards of historical black panther ideology is starting to come on it just doesn't even work as a movie for me okay it's not like but just let me let me finish the point which is to say last week that he announced he started a production company with a handful of other creative people and now they're gonna take more power and make more things that they want to make, probably with more of their point of view. And it's a circle effect, you know, and I suspect that the story that you see in Fruitvale will be visible on screen when he produces more films.

And so in order to acquire that power, you have to do the same thing that Steven Spielberg did, but work twice as hard to do it. And now Steven Spielberg gets to make whatever movie he wants because he made a number of hits over the years. And so his passion projects then become mainstream entertainments in a very strange way. Schindler's List becomes a box office hit while being a very personal story to him. I think Coogler can do the same thing. And so this might just be a 10 to 20 year period in which IP is essentially used by young creatives to acquire power in the industry. I think that could be

maybe optimistic, but a potential outcome. That is very optimistic. I hope you are correct. There is no there is no ostensible precedent for that, right? But we shall, we'll see. We'll see.

I mean, I just feel like it's a roach motel. Could be. Could be. And I hope I'm wrong. I hope there is a backdoor. Sometimes I think Amanda and I are pessimistic, but you're bringing some real Dark Lord energy to this pod. Sorry.

Okay, let's talk about these categories. Uh, best first feature. This is three films that premiered on streaming services that we have identified here. Um, three films that I like, uh,

we, we each picked one or two nominees for each category. So, um, let's just, I'll just list the nominees that we put together. One Palm Springs from Max Barbacow to sound of metal from Darius martyr,

which is nominated for best picture. I would feel more comfortable with a film like this in a best for first feature category. I like sound of metal. Don't love it. And then the 40 year old version from rot a blank. What do you think should win here? You want to make your case?

Wesley? This is a tough category for me. Cause I love all three of these movies um and I I love all three of these movies I don't I don't I don't want to pick one but I will I'll pick 40 year old version okay um I was nervous that you were going to pick another one and we were going to have to have this I don't want to have a fight. Palm Springs. Are you, are you down on Palm Springs? No, I sound a metal. Yeah, it was not for me. Whoa. You want to do it now? You want to do it now? I mean, does it come up again? Is it, do we have another chance to talk about it? I know you guys, I know you really love this Wesley. And I like honestly have been

rehearsing all weekend. Like what I want to say to you about Sound of Metal I because I'm just like I know he really likes this and I like then I got really my head about it Wesley and I was like thinking about other movies that like you really like that I just didn't respond to and there's like I which and I'm thinking particularly of Waves which I know Sean really loved and I was gonna say I had a Waves thought for, but we can, we can. Yeah. And so in both of these cases, it just, there are movies that I, that didn't work for me,

which I want to say is very different from like not working. And I don't, the best way that I can kind of typify them is like a, you know, a man of a certain age going through loss and then, but learning how to feel while music plays like a, you know, a man of a certain age going through loss and then, but learning how to feel while music plays like a major element in his character development.

And this one just felt, I don't know, Sound of Metal felt really Oscar movie to me. It felt like here, and especially their performance of like, let's put all of these things in and it will be like an an issue movie several times over but i'll get to show a range of emotions and also like a very physical performance and the female character is there to like illustrate a point but doesn't really exist as a female character and i just just, it didn't resonate for me. But I know a lot of people disagree.

So it's Cianfrance core, right? It's Derek Cianfrance. Don't you dare! But I mean, he's the co-writer of the movie. He is a partner with Darius Marder who directed the film. That's fair, yes. And I am a mark for Cianfrance core i like derrick cn france's films quite a bit while acknowledging that i am like a self-parody when i say that i like his movies a

lot and so it did feel and i think amanda's point is very legitimate which is that there is a long history of films about people with disabilities who are asked to give extraordinary physical performances and then are recognized for those performances. And you can get a little bit cynical about the way that that works. I think that there's obviously some beautiful acting in the story. And I'm a big Riz Ahmed fan. I found the film structurally like a little slight. I felt like a little unfinished to me from a story perspective. So that was what was kind of holding

me back from it but i think it's very well made and obviously the way that it's um the way it's edited and the way that the sound is executed um and even the way that it's shot and the actors that they cast i think is all very impressive but it just felt a little came up a little short for me i i think this is a full movie it's. It's surprising without going out of its way to surprise you. You kind of know where it's going, but even when it gets there, you're just kind of like, well, what's going to happen now?

And I hear everything that Amanda is saying about the sort of privileging of... It's simultaneously male disillusionment and male enlightenment, right? Like the disillusionment happens in order for the enlightenment to shine, to burn a little brighter. And I

can't argue against that. I will just say that there is something really exciting in watching a movie not try harder than it needs to. It's unfortunate that this movie, in the real world, I don't know what the plans were for this movie, but this felt to me like a movie that I would have stumbled upon in March or April. And it would have knocked me out and I would have spent the rest of the year proselytizing for it. But the problem with the way the movies work now,

especially this year, we're like, I don't know when that movie was really supposed to come out, but it just looks like catnip for people who want to give people things. Because there's a precedent for actors doing the things that Reza Maid has to do in this movie. And, you know, the triumph over an adversity, or like not even a triumph over the adversity, the acceptance of an identity is really what this movie is about.

And I don't know. It's unfortunate. What we're really talking about a lot in this conversation today is the problem. There are three problems, right? One is an industrial production problem, which is that there aren't enough of an entire swath of movies being made anymore. It puts a lot of pressure on movies that, frankly, can't withstand more than we are putting on it, right? Like, it's funny.

We're probably not going to talk about all of the problems with Mank because for any number of reasons, right? Because we've been down this road before. Because we have litigated the Citizen Kane thing already. Of course, David Fincher is most... How do I put this? Of course, one of his

Oscar-iest seeming movies is a movie about the writing, about Mankiewicz, right? And about the making, not even about the making of Citizen Kane, about the idea of making Citizen Kane. There's a kind of obviousness to that movie that doesn't even warrant litigation.

Instead, we've got these smaller movies that are operating at much lower stakes that are like, we are treating as though they're Green Book, right? Not in terms of quality, but just in terms of substantial debate turf. And I think that does deserve an aspect of movie culture, but I also think that they made a movie, we get to talk about it, Who cares what the intersection of the timing of the release is? But I do think it does put a frame around a movie like Sound of Metal that it should be doing a thing that's bigger than the thing that it's doing or that it's failed because it's not a bigger seeming movie. I would just add also that in addition to these movies, maybe not being able to bear whatever Oscar discourse weight we've now,

you know, built into the process. But also now the Oscar season is like two or three months longer. So we've just been talking about these movies for so long. And it's just like, is there that much left to say? I don't know. It's our job. But is there? I don't know.

There's one other thing too that speaks to the point that both of you guys are making, which is that in typical years, you have this broad studio slate of films like 1917 or Once Upon a Time in Hollywood where powerful auteurs with $100 million budgets

make movies that have a chance to be nominated. This year, we basically have one of those movies kinda in The Trial of Chicago 7, and then seven underdogs. So seven underdogs all speaking to- Well, six underdogs. Is Mank an underdog? Yeah, I don't think Fincher with Netflix budget.

It's not budgetarily and in terms of identity but the actual movie is so peculiar and so idiosyncratic and it seems like it is one thing it seems like it is you know a story of old Hollywood and look at how crazy things were back then don't we love making movies but that's not what that movie is about at all it's not even a little bit about that. It's about an obnoxious drunk who... It is. It is. Wants to win against, you know,

wants to beat the rich, the rich money, the moneybags who's got the girl. So, okay. Do you want to say anything about the 40-year-old version? Because we haven't spent a ton of time on it

this year on the show. It's fantastic. I love this movie. I love this woman. Radha Blank is... She is a filmmaker. She has a sense of humor. She's got a great eye and she's got a,

she's got a love of the classics. And, you know, there's always that question that, uh, you know, gets asked. It's been being asked of Woody Allen for,

for decades, which is not of Woody Allen, Woody Allen, like who is going to be the next you? But it's like, who's going to do the Scorsese, Spike Lee, Woody Allen, Sidney Lumet, New York

storytelling? Who's going to love New York enough to want to do more than Law & Order in it? Who's going to want to give to want to do more than law and order in it. Um, who's going to want to like give it a cinematic application. Um, and she is that person. Um,

this movie is, I mean, it's, it's slight in that, you know, it's just the story of, of, of a woman who is torn between art,

art forms essentially, and how to self express. Um, it's got a little love story in it that I love. That guy is sexy. The beat, the rap, the producer. Oh my God, that guy is... But, you know, you watch this movie and I don't know what your experiences were with it,

but it was such a, I could feel myself falling in love with every single part of it. Even the things that don't work, like they don't work in a way that is so classic, you know, it's such a like classic first movie problem. Um, I just, I don't know. I, it's the only movie I saw this year or last year where there's another one that we'll talk about later. But this was the other one where I saw it. No, there's three that I felt this way about. We're going to talk about both of them later. I saw this and I just was like, she's got it.

She has won my heart. She has won my heart and she's won it forever. So Wesley, in addition to practicing my sound of metal speech this weekend, I went back and I revisited this film because I know that you're a big fan of it and you wrote beautifully about it in your Oscars piece in the New York Times last week. And I realized that it was one of those classic, I watched it at the wrong time situations. I had surgery at the end of the last year and I saved a bunch of things to watch. And that was really dumb because I slept through at the wrong time situations. I had surgery at the end of the last year and I saved a bunch of things to watch.

And that was really dumb because I slept through all the sex scenes in Bridgerton, like all of them. I just like, I like, I just fell asleep. And then later people are talking about ejaculation. And I was like, what is going on? And I watched the 40 year old version. And I remember thinking that it was good, but I just, like, it was passive viewing. It was me as a bad audience member.

Like, honestly, I just wasn't really with it. And I was so charmed this weekend, and as you said, just, like, wanted to spend time in her world and around this person. It was, like, a really fully realized version of a character, but also New York. And as someone who still gets homesick for New York, I was like,

Oh, that's when I know a film is working is when it makes me like consider moving back, which I'm like, not going to do, but it just, it it's complete and winning and, and charming.

I think it's about things. I mean, listen, a woman approaching 40 and trying to make sense of things. And that's real. I think it's about things. I mean, listen, a woman approaching 40 and trying to make sense of things. And that's real. I mean, let me tell you, Wesley, it's real. And I was right there.

It's the driving force of the movie. Yeah. Yeah. But I was really glad that I saw it again. I would vote for it in this category. Also, the theater satire in this movie is hilarious. The underground rap satire in this movie is hilarious. And the stakes are high here in some way. But Amanda, your viewing experience the first time, I mean, again, talk about things that we're going to have

to keep talking about in terms of the way the culture is changing. There's a movie on this list that we're going to talk about later. I watched it the first time and it was not the time to watch that movie. Nicole Kidman at a Cannes Film Festival press conference was asked about being a juror the year she was in on the jury. And she... I'm going to botch her answer. I'm not going to try to quote her. But basically, she's like, movies are all about moods. And, you know,

it's sometimes hard to be a juror and have to be, like, sitting in a seat to watch, like, Mad Max Fury Road at 8 o'clock in the morning. This is not... I'm now super paraphrasing.

I'm putting movies in her mouth. But she this is not, I'm now super paraphrasing. I'm putting movies in her mouth, but she just was, she was talking about like, she was talking about the mood to watch certain things. And sometimes, you know, there are really tough movies that you have to watch at 8am and you just have to be ready for them.

But watching these, watching this shit in your house. Yeah. You just, it's kind of a... It's an atmospheric crapshoot. A hundred percent. I had a very similar experience to Amanda with this,

and I regretted not seeing it at Sundance because that would have been a much more fun and appropriate environment. It would have killed in a movie theater. Yes. Yes. Okay, guys. So there were 13 more categories to go.

And we are an hour into this podcast. So what we have to do is move a little bit more quickly. Now, why don't we... I will talk slow. But we had a lot of our arguments already. Yes, we have. Well, some of them. But we can have more.

I'd like to spend most of our conversation talking about the things that we love the most, right? So that's the best thing to do. This was the 40-year-old version conversation talking about the things that we love the most right so that's the best thing to do this was this was the 40 year old version conversation we haven't had it on the show we just had it with one of the best people to have it with so let's go to the next category rata blank already has an alternative a big pick an alternative academy award here she's nominated again in this category breakthrough performance here are the nominees sydney flanagan never rarely sometimes always, Sometimes, Always. Orion Lee, First Cow. Roda Blank for the 40-year-old version.

Andra Day for the United States versus Billie Holiday. And Aubrey Plaza for Happiest Season. Okay, Amanda, I know who you nominated. I don't know. I just, we're supposed to have fun at some point. Listen, feel how you feel about Happiest Season. Oh, I'm gonna feel it it but isn't that great like in a lot of ways that is the i mean i will say this about every romantic comedy that ever gets made it's like thank you for making it thank you for making it available thank you for

having people be angry about it and meme it all weekend long or whatever. I had a delightful time. I watched that by myself at 9 a.m. on a Saturday morning and had the time of my life. Oh, snap. So that says something. But whatever you might think about the experience or the humor or the politics, the Aubrey Plaza thing was a moment.

And people were so moved by her and her performance that she went from basically existing to me was a moment and people were so moved by her and her performance that she went from basically like existing to me as a Parks and Rec meme she was that's that's she was on Parks and Recreation right yes now just I'm just making sure this was a breakthrough for you Amanda but not for most people who are very aware of Aubrey Plaza her as like because she's a side character and really does mostly exist like now in screenshots of that show. And it's weird afterlife on the internet. And I was like, oh, you can actually be in a movie.

You can even steal the movie. And I have to give her credit for that. Also, I just wanted to talk about Happiest Season. Well, yes, you did. Okay. I don't think she's going to love i love i love her i love her uh what was the movie that she was in that you know has the record flip essentially where the black bear yeah yeah yeah uh the movie doesn't work but she does work in the movie agree she's

very good in that as well you could make the case that her breakthrough this year is for performance in both of those movies because they're two totally different kinds of performances too yes um i'm a i'm a big fan of hers but i've been on marbury plaza island for years okay well congratulations guys i'm just trying to that's wonderful we we just... I could talk about her. She could break through. She could break through every year as far as I'm concerned. Okay.

Wesley, I think you nominated Andra Day here and you helpfully included ducks next to the nomination. But I think she's quite good in this movie. I don't think this is a controversial pick at all. Listen, I don't even know... I don't know if you okay i'm just gonna say this and you guys could tell me how you feel i you there are some people that you just i don't even think she's good in this movie she is listen but listen stop she is mesmerizing like i i could not believe i

was watching a person go for it the way she's going for it. There is a commitment. And this is what Lee Daniels does, right? Lee Daniels is a very good director of actors who aren't afraid to not be afraid. Yeah. Zac Efron and the paper boy. Let's go. Yeah. Zac Efron and the paper boy. Let's go. Yeah.

I mean, for starters. And so I just really, I loved, I loved, I hated this movie, but I loved watching her just like let herself

be burned up in the house. I feel similarly. I don't think the movie works at all. Like even a little bit i think it's almost almost unwatchable lee daniels is one of my favorite directors and i'm just i don't know i don't know what this is it's got the same problem to me but but far far far far far worse than judas and the Black Messiah, which is like, it's who is this movie about? Really? I mean, it is in the title, at least like the United States

does come before Billie Holiday. But- It's just super interested in the Gervonta Rhodes character for reasons that are completely mysterious to me. Well, I'm sorry. They aren't that mysterious.

I mean, he's beautiful. Yeah, thank you. There we go. That's what I got. I didn't understand anything else about this movie, including the Anjan Hay performance, but that I knew. Okay.

I nominated Sidney Flanagan and Orion Lee, although those feel like staid choices compared to your picks here. I don't have some convulsive, emotional explanation of why I love them. Those are small films. Remember back when

we thought that never really sometimes always in first cow would get some Academy love? Nope, not a chance. Not even in a pandemic year would they deign to

reward a film like that. What a shame. Who should win? I'm going to say Ride a Blank. Wow. She's going to walk away with the big picks.

I'm going to say Ride a Blank. Yeah. I mean, Aubrey Plaza was like a joke. There was one, it's not a joke. It was like a happy to be here nominee. So I'm not voting for that. I, you know, I, I really like Sydney planning in

and never rarely, sometimes always, but I kind of want to save my never rarely, sometimes always awards for, for later. Yeah. This is not the thing that you reward. Although, again, everything I said about Andra Day is true of her too. I think she's very good in it,

but she's good because of the construction around it. And I kind of want to reward the construction without spoiling the end of this podcast. Orion Lee stood out to me in First Cow. That's what I remembered when I left that film. So I would be happy with that. Giving it to him. But you know,

Rahab like is also, who is he even like, he's just one of those people. He shows up and you're like, where did they find this guy? Yeah. He, he's an original.

He's got, he's soulful. Um, define a person who isn't just like a, like a, like a piece of wood. Um, who you've never seen in a movie before, who is intriguing and surprising. I don't know. What a pleasure. I mean, I like the movie, but I really liked him. My favorite Kelly Reichardt performance that she's gotten out of an

actor. It's because there's not a damn person in the movie who smiles except for him. He's used like a weapon. It's really brilliant. Okay, so I'm happy to give it to Orion Lee. I love that. Okay, next category. Best cameo. I would say our cameo choices were a little bit stronger last year. This year they are...

Yeah, it's consonne. Let's do this one quickly. I think there's really... I thought these were funny. Well, I'll read them. People can decide for themselves. Some humor in a podcast. How dare you. Best cameo number one,

the New York Knicks in the film Soul, which has aged very poorly because the New York Knicks are thriving in the city of New York right now. Save it for another pod. Six game win streak. Julius Randall is the prince of the city, loving everything about it for another pod. Six game win streak. Julius Randall is the prince of the city

loving everything about it. Next, Robert Zemeckis and I'm thinking of ending things. Robert Zemeckis does not actually appear but he appears in spirit and it's the funniest

moment of that movie. And then Patrick Wilson in The Assistant which is I thought a very well executed moment in a very well constructed film.

What do you guys got I'm gonna go with the Knicks because it was funny although Zemeckis I don't you know what's funny about The Assistant a movie I liked I really had to think about

Wilson is doing but I remember now I. But I remember now. I remember now. I remember now. And it's a testament to how gripping Julia Garner is and how well made the movie is. But anyway, I'm going to vote for Soul. Did the Knicks win here, Amanda?

Sure. I did laugh at that. And it was a joke at your expense, which I can always vote for. Well, the joke's on you now because this is a seven game win streak for the Knicks. Now love to see it. Next category, best kid performance. God, there can be only one here in my opinion, but I will, I will read the nominees.

The nominees are Alan Kim for Minari, Stephen Garza and Renee Oteroo for Boys State, and Helena Zengel for News of the World, which Wesley just annihilated about 20 minutes ago. But you know what? I finished that movie and I was like, great kid performance. You did say that. Then I typed it right. Okay, you can, she's 13, let her 12.

I don't know. I typed it in. She got nominated. It's obviously Alan Kim. I, you know. You guys. What? Are you going to say no to Alan Kim?

Yes. Oh my God. What? Wesley. No. What are you doing? So some things you don't know about me. You wore your devil horns to this pod.

This is wild. I have a real aversion to cute children. Okay. I love kids. Kids are wonderful. Like we can, you want to talk about a cute kid. When we talk about time, the, those home videos of, of the older older of the oldest kid are extraordinary they like pierce your heart he gave me a cavity and okay that's i mean but if you guys want it like i'm not here i'm not

here but you know the other thing about alan Kim in this movie is like he is the thing that is he's I mean it's hard to he's the thing that's wrong with the movie I'm just gonna say it he is

there is like there's like a what? there is like an energy or something that his cuteness it kind of takes

the movie over in some ways and the antidote to that is the grandma, obviously, who is cute in her own way, but it's such a, it's such a like venerable cuteness that it's not cute is the,

is, is an insult to what she's doing. Anyway, I, if you guys want to give that little boy a prize, go ahead, go right ahead. This is just a extraordinary heat check from you.

You are surfing on the astral plane right now, denigrating Alan Kim's cuteness, which is just extraordinary. I have a vivid memory of the frozen parking lot that Sean and I were in after seeing me and Ari at like, you know, some weird tent at Sundance on like day eight. And like the only, I couldn't feel anything. I couldn't feel my fingers. Cause it was so cold. It was a film festival, not the Oregon trail.

Okay. Because Sundance had beaten it out of me. And then that little kid reached in and broke my heart. Okay. And so I know I'm sorry. I'm a mark, I guess. I mean, that's Alan Kim.

That's all. Congratulations, Alan Kim. Congratulations. Okay. Next category. Best casting. This is always fun.

And this should also be a category at the Oscars. Yes. Oh, yeah, for sure. Here are the nominees. The last dance. The King of Staten Island, Baccarat,

Boys State, and Tenet. I feel wonderful about this category. I love all the nominees, or at least for this category. Let's talk a little bit about what the casting is doing, though, Sean. Okay.

Yeah, I think casting in documentary is probably the most under discussed aspect of documentary filmmaking i think both boys state and the last dance know exactly what they are doing i'll give you two real-time examples one i just talked about garza and otero who are obviously kind of the heroes of boys state um finding those kids and finding their counterparts in that film is what makes that movie work. And similarly, in The Last Dance, of course, they compelled Michael Jordan to participate in that documentary. But more specifically, it's everyone around Michael Jordan that makes that movie sing.

I think specifically of Isaiah Thomas saying the phrase, I met the criteria to be selected, but I wasn't, which is probably my favorite movie moment of 2020. That's on the iPad? Well, he does watch that on the iPad. Right, but that's what he's watching on the iPad because that's casting on its own, by the way. That was perfect. There are a number of moments that are like that

where we see Scottie Pippen talking or we see any number of Michael Jordan rivals or teammates talking and him responding. Carmen Electra. Carmen Electra. She also gives a terrific performance. One of her best performances since Scary Movie 2. I was really impressed.

And then obviously for films like Tenet and Baccarat and The King of Staten Island, I think those movies are as good for their supporting cast as they are for their stars. The supporting cast of all of those films are terrific. The sister in King of Staten Island,

all the firefighters, the kids in the basement, in that opening sequence. Who is that girl who's friends with Belle Pauly? Never seen her before. I looked, I mean, she is wonderful. Yeah, there's a lot of, the movie doesn't work, but the people in it do.

Amanda, where do you lean in this category? Well, Boys State doesn't exist without its casting. Like that is the single thing that makes it work. So, and you turn to yourself halfway through watching and being like,

where do they find this person? So I think documentary wise, that's where I would vote. I put Tenet in and not in a chaos way. It's like, yeah, explain. Um, I don't know. Just like a lot of people I'd want to hang out with. I think like tenant is underrated as a good hang.

You've got John David Washington. Yes. Thank you. Would like to spend time with him. How can I get everyone to be wearing the sport coat and polo look? I know. Wesley's making a face at me. You're not a part of it? The clothes?

I do not buy the clothes in this movie. They're so bad. Who is it? When Michael Caine's like, you gotta get a good suit. And you think that he's gonna actually... That's gonna happen? And I'm like, you gotta get a good suit. And you think that he's gonna actually, that's gonna happen?

And I'm like, wait, did the suiting thing, are these the good suits? Is there a scene that's still coming where the lordly tailor comes down from Zeus to outfit John David Washington? So I like the suits. I would also watch those outtakes if anyone wants to release them. But I like the suits. I would also watch those outtakes if anyone wants to release them.

But I like his vibe. I love Robert Pattinson's vibe. We'll come back to that. Did Bicky get his brand on just like in the weird scuba gear? Okay. Like Michael Caine, a great one scene cameo.

Aaron Taylor Johnson shows up and you're like, wait, is that Aaron Taylor Johnson? There's a lot going on. There's a treat every once in a while. And I think everybody's pretty good at what they do. So I just, you know, I just wanted to highlight the work. I'll accept it. Okay. To the extent that it matters what I think, but like, I don't know. The thing about that movie

though, is that all those people, there's a kind of casting where it's like these people would just say yes to working with Christopher Nolan. I think he might have been the casting agent. Obviously he wasn't.

But I do like, the person in that movie who I love a lot is Elizabeth Debicki. Yeah. I agree with that. That's specifically why I would like to give this prize to The Last Dance.

Because casting like this can never happen again. Yes. The Last Dance is a good option. We can talk about Baccarat later. Okay. Okay. Next award. Best Action Sequence. We've done great work here i'm very

excited about this category here are the nominees dick dies over and over again and dick johnson is dead the highway chase and tenant the roller skates chase scene and birds of prey and the birth scene in pieces of a woman which who added that not me it's really good i'm guilty that was a last minute ad my reaction was oh my god um but it is also one of the more like visceral 20 or 30 minutes of filmmaking that i have seen in the last year so i think it counts i i i think it has to win it's like the most upsetting terrifying anxiety producing

totally it's like it's extremely well executed in a movie that I think is not always very well executed but that sequence is amazing

can you guys talk about what goes wrong with that movie is it this I think it's that scene I think that scene is so well done

that it's all downhill maybe the movie has no place else to go. I don't even know really what it wants to say. I can't really feel it. I agree. I agree. To go to the Ellen Burstyn character though,

and then the last model, whatever. The last model is rough. Awful. Rough. Yeah. Anyhow, there's some impressive filmmaking there. Let's give it a prize. Yay.

For seeing Pieces of a Woman. Okay. Best ending. impressive filmmaking there let's give it a prize yeah pieces of woman okay best ending hmm Bakurao time collective another round and tenant I like the tenant ending personally I didn't understand it but I like I've seen that movie twice going on three times soon really yeah on the big picture I didn't understand it, but that's okay. I've seen that movie twice, going on three times soon. Oh, really? Yeah, on the big picture. I don't really understand what's happening in the last bit of it.

And I say that as a person who really enjoyed Tenet. Okay. I feel very strongly that this should go to another round. Hmm. Interesting. Are you in on the another round ending? What do you think of another round, Wesley? I think it's fine. I think it's fine. I think it's fine.

I mean, I think it's got a, you brought the killjoy energy today. Jesus. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Just remember

Rod Ablank and my love for Rod Ablank. Okay. That's true. I, and I do really truly think that the casting in Last Dance

is fantastic. Another round. I think, you know, I love the premise of this movie. I think it's a, it's a darker and deeper movie than it, than it appears to be.

I don't like the, the happiness of the ending though. And it isn't just the, it isn't the dancing at the ending though and it isn't just that it isn't the dancing at the end it's the text messages that i did not like um the the resolution of of what those text messages are solving is i just didn't i didn't buy that or i didn't like it i guess um i'm struggling to remember the text messages, which is like... I mean, the ending is definitely showy.

And maybe the movie doesn't live up to the ending. But I managed to see this ending without having it spoiled. I knew that there was like something coming with the ending, but I didn't know what it was. I knew what was coming. Interesting. I didn't know what it was. I knew what was coming. Interesting. I didn't know. And it just makes you realize how rare it is for a movie to just really stick the landing with something exhilarating. And you're like, oh my God, what an ending. And to leave on that note of energy and have it be relatively unexpected in

my case, I was pretty enthused by it. But again, it was mostly just Mads Mikkelsen dancing, which really speaks to me on a lot of levels. It just confused me a little bit. I don't want to overthink this, but I just, you know, the movie's relationship to its relationship, the movie's relationship, the character's relationship and the movie's relationship to drinking is a little confusing to me. I wasn't sure. I just don't know where this movie comes out on the drinking question. And I don't think it needs to. I hate to be sort of literal minded about this, but I think this movie is trying to say something about um about men and in particular scandinavian men and maybe even more specifically um danish men there's i don't know there's something about

there's something not even that it's unresolved i just felt like that ending like it's so weird it ends with him you know how it ends i'm not going to ruin it for anybody who hasn't seen it because it's worth seeing i think it's a i think it's smart and you know how it ends I'm not going to ruin it for anybody who hasn't seen it because it's worth seeing I think it's a I think it's smart and you know it's the best Thomas Vittenberg movie since the celebration

I would say I agree with that and but that last shot is really who's going to help him out he's so Vittenberg has talked

about this he has a very clear, optimistic definition of that ending. You can say there's a cynical or pessimistic interpretation. He says, optimism. And I choose to believe that too. I believe that.

I believe that he thinks that. I just don't. It just didn't convince me. Well, it convinced me, which is why, it just didn't convince me. Well, it convinced me, which is why it's winning this category. Sorry. Oh,

shit. Wow. Wow. Okay. I've just, I've made it. I've made an executive decision in an effort to podcast on, on rails.

What do you think? We need to, um, we need to interrupt the, uh, the nominating process on this pod to give out a memorial award. This is the Glenn Close Memorial It's Time Oscar. It's time to reward this person with an Oscar.

This also should be an award at the Academy Awards so that we don't have to continue to ask Glenn Close to show up at this award show to keep losing to ingenues and British people. It's just, it's an absolute travesty. And making the movies that she's making at this point i refuse to say the film she can't win for this she can't win for this i know i but that would be perfectly oscar if she did she's not going to she cannot like like it it can only go to one person although i do like i do like amanda seefried a lot in bank uh but there's only one winner come on yeah yeah it's going to be Yajeng Yun.

But the person who needed an Oscar this year is not nominated as fucking Delroy Lindo. Can we give Delroy Lindo an award to acknowledge his greatness? That's all I'm asking. He should have gotten it for Clockers. 100%. Or Kirkland. I would have been fine with either of those.

Both of those would have been great. Let's go to the real categories. These are actually happening at the Academy Awards. We have to make this quick, my friends, okay? Yes. We'll do our best. Best Supporting Actor. Here are our nominees. The late, great Brian Dennehy for

Driveways. Ewan McGregor for Birds of Prey. I'm laughing inside as I say that. I'm laughing. I'm going to laugh out loud. Robert Pattinson for Tenet. Eli Gorey for One Night Prey. I'm laughing inside as I say that. I'm laughing. I'm going to laugh out loud. Robert Pattinson for Tenet. Eli Gorey for One Night in Miami

and Bill Murray for On the Rocks. You got one pick. Who are you guys picking? Eli Gorey. I don't have a problem with this. He plays Muhammad Ali

in One Night in Miami. Bill Murray is... I can't accept that. I would just like the record to show that I did not put this, put that on the list. Sean did.

Because Wesley, I love you so much and I just didn't want to do On the Rocks with you. Did you like that? Yes, but like, I'm me, you know? We have to like be honest

about who we are and our like, you know, our biases and our, I don't know, our habits. I did enjoy it. And I liked the Bill Murray of it all because I find Bill Murray and

Sorcerling in the same way that Sofia Coppola does. But I didn't put this on the list. I put Robert Pattinson on the list. I don't have a problem with Robert Pattinson in Tenet. I don't. Yeah. He's delightful. Okay.

I'm in. But who should win? I like Eli Gore. I think it's a little a little close it's the closest of the four to me to mimicry as opposed to performance um and part of that is you know ali is the most performative of all of those four i have to go for it yeah so it's it's it's a challenging thing to grade. I think he's believable as Ollie. Yes, yes, yes. Where do you stand?

What do you think, Amanda? I agree that it's... I really liked that movie, but it's hard when you're playing for recognizable people, like really recognizable people, and where we know them through the clips and the things that we have seen on YouTube. You can't help but kind of compare and contrast. And Muhammad Ali is the toughest of the bunch.

So once again, I was very charmed by Robert Pattinson. Okay. So it sounds like we have three very different points of view on who to win here. So I guess we should just give it to ewan mcgregor what do you think oh that's that is low i mean he needs like i don't have a problem with that though i did enjoy him now we'll give it we'll give we'll give it to eli gory that feels like the safest the safest bet um best supporting actress here are the nominees dylan galula for shithouse les Leslie Manville for Let Him Go.

Candice Bergen for Let Them All Talk. Dominique Fishback for Judas and the Black Messiah. Charlene Swankie for Nomadland. Five terrific performances. There's only one for me though here. Do you want to know what it is? Is it Candice Bergen? No, it's not.

It's Leslie Manville. Oh, I didn't see that. Oh my God. She is pulling planks off of this production design and chewing on them. She is gnawing on every bit of scenery you can possibly find. And it is delightful. Oh my God. I'm going to go watch this immediately. So evil and so fun. It's like if her character from Phantom Thread was raised in Montana to be the worst person on earth, it's so fun. Oh, wow.

She's got to do an American accent? She does. It's like cartoonish but in the fun way. All right. It's a perfectly fine movie with a reliably good

Costner-Diane Lane performances, but she is... Oh, it's that movie. You know, I meant to watch that and I just, again,

I'm at home. I have total perfect access to it and still know, I meant to watch that. And I just, again, I'm at home. I have total perfect access to it and still couldn't bring myself to watch it. It's not bad. The movies are screwed. Okay, so Amanda, you pushed for Candice. I did put Candice Bergen. I don't know who else put what movie.

I think she's pretty great. She is great. And having fun. And that's also like what that movie is designed for in a lot of ways, which I also like, let's just let Candace Bergen go on a cruise ship. So I would vote for Candace. Who are you voting for Wesley?

I'm going to vote for swanky. Oh, why do you think there was no campaign for the non-professional actors from that film i don't know but i was like she broke my heart and she charmed me um charlene swanky of course plays swanky in nomadland uh and i just i don't know i really i like that performance a lot i mean it worked for paul racy you know, from Sound of Metal. That was my happiest Oscar nomination. But, yeah, I thought for sure that maybe they would write her

name in too, but did not. Man, I'm going to let you have it. It's going to be Bergen. Yes. Great. Thank you so much. Thank you to Candice Bergen. I got one of her mugs for Christmas. So, I'm really just living the Candice Bergen life. Wait, she's got mugs? Yeah, she does this thing now where she is an amateur painter,

but not in a pretentious sense. She just does paintings of dogs. She actually paints bags, but then she branched out. And it's like mugs and t-shirts. I really recommend her Instagram also if you're not a part of that experience. What? I'm not. It's really good stuff but I got a Christmas

tree mug for Christmas. So, Bergen Hive over here. Oh, okay. I'm gonna check that out. Let's go to Best Actor. Here are the nominees. Hugh Jackman,

Bad Education. Hugh! Sean Parks, Mangrove. Ben Affleck, The Way Back. Mads Mikkelson another round and kingsley benedir one night in miami so hard to believe none of these people were nominated obviously hugh jackman and sean parks were not eligible which is part of the problem of the oscars as many of the best

movies that came out last year were not eligible to win oscars um pretty stacked category here yes i think i mean we could have put Riz Ahmed in there. Well, he was nominated. Yeah, that's true. I mean, it's,

that's true. He, he, he officially can't be here because for that reason. I, Ben Affleck. Wow. Yes.

Wesley, yes. I didn't know you were going to do that. I was going to ask you to do like 20 minutes on Ben Affleck, but I didn't want to get in trouble with Sean, but we can skip it because you're here. Core big pick values are Ben Affleck. Welcome.

Yes. Okay. Ben, Ben Affleck is your winner. He deserves it. Kingsley Benadier, by the way, I just want to say really quickly, he had the hardest performance to give in some ways as a British person playing Malcolm X.

But I can't believe that they just decided that Leslie Odom Jr. was their person from the jump before anybody had even seen the movie. So weird, wasn't it? So bizarre. I thought for sure it was going to be Kingsley Ben-Adir nominated this year. I couldn't understand that. I don't get that. I mean, Leslie Odom is good, but all four of those guys are great. They should all be nominated, but

Kingsley Ben-Adir, you're not going to give him anything. You're not going to even rig the category in a way that makes Lake Keith Stanfield and Daniel Kaliya supporting actors in their own movie. I don't get it. I don't get it. It's so bizarre. So bizarre. Anyway, Ben Affleck. That's just Kingsley keeps catching L's because Ben Affleck is here to win best actor. Best actress. Here are the elizabeth moss for her dual performance in the invisible man and shirley my my my beloved jesse buckley from thinking of ending things julia garner for the assistant and nicole bahari for miss juneteenth as affleck is to dobbins buckley is to phoenice so you know where I stand here. Don't try to divorce yourself from the Affleck wave

that we're surfing here, okay? I'm going to go with Nicole Beharie. I found that movie charming. You know, Elizabeth Moss, you know, the hard work she puts into both those performances, I think,

I wonder why the Academy doesn't like her. I think they think of her as a TV actress yeah that's probably true I think that will change over time though and she does a lot of the same thing

like she does a lot of the same types of roles and you've seen her face do the like I'm in I'm in distress

and things are going really wrong a lot like I've seen that shot a lot which is unfair because she's very good at it I'm a distress and things are going really wrong. trauma. A lot. Like, I've seen that shot a lot, which is unfair because she's very good at it. I'm a big Elizabeth Moss fan.

I thought she was great in Us. I feel like she should do a couple more things like that performance. Yes. Or play characters like that. Slightly more comic. I think she's funny.

She was really funny in Mad Men. She's funny. Yeah. Yeah. And she's not, she's often asked to do the Handmaid's Tale thing. I liked Nicole Beharie

I thought Miss Juneteenth was good I didn't love it I don't the movie's not the movie doesn't entirely work but she's she's very strong in it

I mean Julia Garner's pretty great in a very complicated performance yes I like that performance a lot too and I mean she's just carrying the whole movie I don't know

this is a hard category we only have four nominees. Yeah. Can you talk about Jesse Buckley here? Yeah. I know that Amanda didn't love this movie.

I don't know if you did. I obviously am in the bag for Kaufman and I liked that book as well. I think that's also a very difficult performance because you're portraying a manifestation

and not a real person and trying to imbue a person, a character with that kind of personage um she's also like forced to do a lot of different kind of kinds of things she has to give basically three or four different kinds of performances there's a lot of kind of like scene changing costume changing motivation confusion she literally has to play pauline kale for three minutes. There are some, she's asked to stretch in a way that I think is cool and a lot different from some of the other performances she's given. And I think she does it well. Kaufman scripts are not necessarily easy, even if they are a little showy. So I dug her. All right, you convinced me.

Wow. I don't know if Amanda will let that stand. I'm not going to, I'm not going to veto it. I really liked Julia Garner in The Assistant. I did too. But she has gotten a lot of Emmys, which are not the same as Oscars, but I think that she'll- She's the Ozark queen. They're not like, Amanda, I hate to break it to you,

but the gulf is shrinking. It's true. I just also wrote down a list of joke nominees for this category, which just shows you it's not the strongest field. I guess they didn't release all the movies with women in them. Michelle Pfeiffer is another one that we could have talked about. But another movie where I loved her performance and did not like the movie at all. Yeah.

I mean, she's really good in French Exit. Tessa Thompson in Sophie's Love. Sylvie's Love, yeah. Sylvie's Love, sorry. That would have been a good one. I liked that one, but I thought about doing that in Best Film

because it's, you know, it's the whole piece of things. I would do Tessa Thompson, though, if you want to do Elite. Otherwise, fine with jesse buckley jesse buckley is fine okay okay jesse buckley's the winner that one's that's for me um best director brandon brandon cronenberg possessor steve mcqueen small axe eliza hitman never rarely, sometimes always. Garrett Bradley, Time. Juliano Dornelles and Kleber Mandoka Filo for Baccarat. I think everyone is worthy here. So, who do you guys

want? I'm going to go with the Baccarat guys. I just feel like, I mean, I like all of these movies. I like, you know, I like, you know, small acts, whatever we're going to call small acts. But I think Baccarat is just, it is a shockingly excellent movie. I just never saw anything that happens coming.

And even before it takes a turn, I was already involved in the lives of the people in who live in this village and a lot of it is just it's such a masterful control of tone um and a masterful way to sort of wed um comedy and suspense and satire um and satire in a way that doesn't even feel like you don't really understand it's being satire necessarily because you're so stressed out by what's happening. And then once it's over, you're just like, I just cracked up when, when it ended. I just couldn't believe it. Did you guys like that movie? Yes. I love, I loved it for the exact reason that you described. I feel like it's an amazing collision of genres, which is very difficult to pull off. Um, Amanda, if, if we give Dorn Ellis and Mendonca Filo this award, you're going to

get a chance to make your case for the next one. Or do you want to push for Eliza here? I, I was going to push for Eliza Hitman for never rarely, sometimes always here. Oh, please do. Because I think it's funny, Wesley, until you mentioned comedy. I think everything that you just said for Baccarau in terms of it being like a masterful control of tone and suspense in a lot of ways, like all of it could be applied to never rarely sometimes always which is um just the the choices and as i was alluding earlier the just the construction to turn what is a process movie about a system and about bureaucracy into an extremely lived in suspenseful, like tragedy about this one young woman and about all young women in America

and, and healthcare in America and how we understand how we take care of each other. I think it's both the personal and the political and the, um, there's both a narrative story and it's both the personal and the political and the, um, there's both a narrative story and it's something about process. And I have thought about it so much in the last year. And I just,

I think it's such a specific filmmaking achievement to be able to get that performance out of Sydney Flanagan, to be able to get people to invest in what is in a lot of ways like a pretty mundane experience but also what is contained in this mundane experience for so many people in america is um is what that movie so beautifully illustrates so i i would vote for Eliza Hittman. That is very convincing. You can keep your powder dry and make a convincing case on the next category if you want, Wesley,

if you want to allow for Eliza Hittman to take it. I will let it stand. I mean, there are some things. I think we can just like go through all the best pictures and just say a little bit about them, but Eliza Hittman, congratulations. Oh,

good. Last award. This award is called best picture. Perhaps you've heard of it. Here are the nominees we landed upon. I think it's more than 10. I apologize for that. Soul.

Let them all talk. Another round. Baku Rao, the 40 year old version, Bakurao, The 40-Year-Old Version, Collective, City Hall, Time, Sound of Metal, Palm Springs, Never Rarely, Sometimes, Always, and David Byrne's American Utopia. Okay, so there's a lot of movies.

There's a lot of different kinds of movies. On this list, we have a four-and-a-half-hour Frederick Wiseman documentary about the inner workings of local government. We have a Danish film about the power of drinking. We have an animated story about the absolute nature of human existence. We've got a musical from David Byrne and Spike Lee.

We've got a romantic comedy with a Groundhog Day theme. This is an incredibly diverse collection of nominees here at the second annual Alternative Academy Awards. I have no idea who's supposed to win. Who do you guys think is going to win? We've not talked about time. It is a movie that I

was sort of in like this was the movie that I just should not have watched when I watched it because I just wasn't in the mood for it. Um, and I had a lot of problems with its, its form and its style. Um, and then I rewatched it and was so much more connected to it and was much more

moved by it. This is a story about a woman waiting for her husband and fighting for her husband to be released from prison for a crime they both committed years ago. And she served her time, and she's raising their family, and he has reasons that we don't need to get into. He's still there. And it's completely observational um it's verite but it also is so reliant upon the art of montage um and the use of

of of old video footage and so there is this you know got a, I mean, it's shot in black and white as is a 40 year old version. I don't know if there's anything else on our list I didn't like it the first time I saw it. I watched it two times, actually, the first time I saw it and just didn't connect with it on an aesthetic level. Morally, sure, I'm totally on board. And felt like it too was a little, it might've been activist-y in a way that I just don't think it is, as it turns out. I was wrong. I think that it's just a beautiful movie about the thing that its title is telling you it's going to try to embody in some way, which is like time's passage and time's magic,, times tragedy. I don't know. It's not my favorite movie of these,

but it's definitely the one that I have completely turned myself around on. Amanda, I know you'd like to talk about why my octopus teacher should defeat time at the Academy Awards here. Don't even. I haven't even seen that movie. No, listen, I was completely knocked out by time. Me too. of the awards here that's that's don't even i haven't even seen that movie no i listen i was completely knocked out by time me too um just and i i wesley what you said you know encapsulates it

so beautifully that i i don't have a ton to add except you know i i was moved by it i thought it was a real portrait of of that family and the way it tells the story of that family and also what they experienced through time, um, is incredibly moving. It should, I would advocate for it as the winner of this category. I,

but I, we should talk about some of the other films. Um, I'm completely fine with that. I, I don't, I don't think most of these are kind of up to what time's accomplishment. I think,

I mean, like I really like Palm Springs. I really, um, liked another round. I really liked soul and spoke very highly of those films. Time feels like it's operating on a slightly different frequency though. It's doing something a little bit different.

I think the best of these movies is collective. I was going to say. Baccarat and collective are the two, are the two best of these movies is Collective. I was going to say. Baccarat and Collective are the two best of these movies, I would say. But Sean? I don't know. I believe in the work that is done in Collective. I don't necessarily think it is the best film.

What's your resistance to it? It's a little programmatic for me, which is not to say that it's not an important story. It's a little programmatic for me, which is not to say that it's not an important story. It's immensely important and the discovery, the journalism that's

done in the film is amazing. Those people are heroic and what happened in Romania is tragedy and awful. I just didn't love it as a film.

I just didn't love it as a cinematic experience in the way that I did a lot of these other nominees that we picked out. Wow. Okay. I mean, you have your experience i would push back on that just to say that was the ultimate like i can't believe they recorded this like i can't believe that they got all of

this um and especially to watch that movie given the health care year that we have had um it's pretty remarkable and i and i like the tiktok nature of how they lay it out um though that makes the ultimate conclusion of it all all the more devastating it's certainly not like an uplifting film i put the i put david burr's american utopia on this list just to be able to add one movie that like made me feel good and hopeful about the world. But I, I think collective is pretty excellent as well. I just want to be really clear that I didn't like my activist teacher because I haven't even seen my activist teacher. Like Sean was joking earlier. Thank the Lord.

Because that movie. Oh, talk about, talk about a, well, hold it up, hold a bag to a butt. Wow.

From diaper to diaper, this has been an extraordinary experience. I think we should go with time, though, for this award. Works for me. It works for me. Okay. Great.

We've done it once more. We've given out these awards and we will be recognized historically as the only awards givers in the year 2021. How do you guys feel? Do you feel great power with this responsibility i do i do i'm just i'm just so excited that wesley was so on board with ben affleck you know we got that was the time we got eliza hitman and we got ben

affleck like i came for you i got what i came here to do i'm'm really looking for, I mean, Eliza Hittman, just to, just to piggyback on, on Amanda's enthusiasm for her in that movie, I think she is a thing. You know, she's got a, she's got interests

as a filmmaker. It's so interesting and exciting to watch her double down on herself from movie to movie and to just believe in young people

and to tell stories of people who live in places. That's another thing that's disappearing from movies is place. The movie's set in New York, but it's starring two people who you feel in every moment of their presence on screen that they're from Pennsylvania. They're from a small town in Pennsylvania. And how you maintain in the face of all this global bullshit making art that feels like it is

coming from a region, from a personality is really going to be hard to do and is really important. And it's vanishing before our eyes you know i mean wakanda is realer than any american city at this point right in the movies um and that's just i i i mean god bless wakanda but like

i would also like to see more places like the town where these two girls are from in the Salaza Hitman movie. So, I don't know. I agree. Wesley, Amanda, thank you for participating in this year's Big Picks. I feel like we did a great job.

I can't wait to angrily text you during the Academy Awards, Wesley, about everything that happens. In the meantime, what are you plugging? You're in the middle of a still processing season. What else do you want to talk about? Nothing. I'm fine.

I'm just happy to be here. We were happy you were here. Amanda and I will be here for the rest of this week. We have more episodes about the Academy Awards coming up. We have an Academy Awards winner's for the rest of this week. We have more episodes about the Academy Awards coming up. We have an Academy Awards winner's draft with Chris Ryan this week. We have some Oscar predictions and then we are going immediately after the telecast

to give you a podcast. Thank you for listening to The Big Picture. Thank you to Bobby Wagner. We'll see you soon. Thank you.