The Big Picture - The ‘Shrek’ Pod

Episode Date: May 30, 2025

Bobby Wagner joins the show to bid farewell to The Big Picture and The Ringer at large. We look back at how he started working on the show and run through all of his favorite moments during his time as a producer (0:54). Then, Bobby finally convinces Sean and Amanda to discuss ‘Shrek’ and ‘Shrek 2’ on the show and talk about why ‘Shrek’ is such a critical movie for young millennials and early Gen Z (23:40). Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guest: Bobby Wagner Producer: Jack Sanders Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Exciting news, Chicago movie lovers, we're coming for you. Next month, we're headed to the Windy City for a live show at the historic Steppenwolf Theatre, and we could not be more excited. Mark your calendars for Monday, July 21st. Tickets go on sale next Wednesday, June 4th, at 12 p.m. Central Time, and more information will be available soon

at theringer.com slash events. Again, we'll be at the Steppenwolf Theater in Chicago on Monday, July 21st, and you can grab your tickets next Wednesday, June 4th, beginning at 12 p.m. Central time. Head to TheRinger.com slash events for more information soon. Hope to see you there. It won't take long to tell you Neutrol's ingredients.

Hope to see you there! It won't take long to tell you Neutral's ingredients. Vodka, soda, natural flavours. So, what should we talk about? No sugar added? No sugar added. Neutral. Refreshingly simple. What's better than a well marbled ribeye sizzling on the barbecue? A well marbled ribeye sizzling on the barbecue that was carefully selected by an Instacart

shopper and delivered to your door. A well marbled ribeye you ordered without even leaving the kiddie pool. Whatever groceries your summer calls for, Instacart has you covered. Download the Instacart app and enjoy $0 delivery fees on your first three orders. Service fees, exclusions, and terms apply. Instacart. Groceries that over-. I'm Sean Fennessy. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is the Big Picture, a conversation show about two old pals.

I'm talking of course about Shrek the ogre and Bobby Wagner. We have coordinated a very special episode this Friday because Bobby Wagner, our beloved longtime producer on the show, a linchpin of the big picture, a person without whom we would not have the show in its current form, is moving on from The Ringer and has moved on from our show. And so we wanted to pay tribute to him.

And so we asked him, what would you like to do, Bob? What movie would you like to spend time on? What should we do to explore your truest inner self? And you have chosen the first two Shrek films. So one... Okay. First of all, in my defense, thank you guys for having me. It's so great to be back here. I've missed you guys very much. And I will continue to miss you guys. I love you guys too.

Amanda, it was Amanda's idea to be like, you should send us off with a movie that is important to you, preferably that we haven't seen. Can I even find a movie that you two guys haven't seen, like neither of you guys have seen, that is important enough to me, that is not just like a straight up kids movie? Like a 25 minute kids movie?

Yeah, you did, you nailed one. And I think of it often when I think of you. But I thought you did a great job. Would you like to read the entire... Do you have the list that you sent us? Oh, I do have the list. Yeah. Let me find that for you guys real quick. Um...

I thought this was a good list. The list was... Shrek 1, 2, 3, or 4. And I believe Sean's response was that 3 and 4 are hot garbage and we can't talk about them. I think that's true. Spirit, Stallion of the Cimarron, the Matt Damon horse movie that you guys made fun of.

Oh, right. Have you seen that? On the Matt Damon Hall of Fame. I have not seen it. Yeah, so there's one that we haven't seen. Well, it's DreamWorks, so we will be talking about it. It's actually related to this movie in a very specific way. It is. Harriet the Spy.

Seen it, loved it, dynamite. Yeah, I'm sure you saw it, loved it, dynamite. Yeah, I'm sure you saw it, yeah. Well, I have a sister that's five years older than me, so that was important to her. I do, it was one of the first books that I bought for my daughter while knowing I was not gonna be able to read it to her

until she was six. Oh, that's nice. But I'm pretty sure I saw it. RIP Michelle Tractor, obviously. I saw it as a kid. Incredible movie. And then the other three that I mentioned that I knew you

guys had definitely seen but that are just young millennial iconography which are Freaky Friday, Holes and The Sandlot. Holes? What's Holes? I knew you're gonna say that. I knew this was gonna happen. What is it? Explain Holes, Bob. Holy shit. I've seen Holes.

Holes was like a YA novel written by this guy named Louis Sackur. It was very common to assign in like elementary school for people of my age. It was like one of the first books where you read. It's like a coming of age story of sorts. And it then was turned into a movie with Shia LaBeouf as he was like making his transition out of like the Even Stevens TV movie universe into like quote unquote real acting, I guess. Has John Voight in an insane performance, Sigourney Weaver pitched up to 11.

I really love holes. I think it's a fantastic, it's a masterpiece in my mind. He goes to camp movie? Yes, he goes to camp instead of going to like juvie, more or less for a crime that he did not commit. Oh wow, okay. And then he digs holes. You know what you do in holes? You dig holes. All right. And then he learns about himself?

Or does he break out from the camp? Or does he... He uncovers some lore about his family. He is definitely vindicated. Spoiler alert for holes everyone listening at home. Did John Voight do it? But he is vindicated. Did John Voight do it? Did John Voight do it? Spoiler! If by it you mean save Hollywood, then yes.

Yes. I'm glad you, I'm glad we all chose Shrek together. Shrek recently came up on the Gen Z episode that you hosted. And you know, Shrek is a very, I guess, meaningful and also soon to be again relevant film because Shrek 5 is coming soon. Yeah, I did think while watching this and I thought about the Gen Z conversation,

Bob, I thought about your choice. I do think this is a generational turning point movie. It is very significant. You made a great choice. I think this is how I know that you and I, you know, live in different times. And that's okay. It's really, really good.

But I know that this is so important to you and to everyone younger than you. And I know, I saw this movie in theaters, you know, like I was there. I lived Shrek, probably even Shrek 2. But it means something different. It hits differently to the younger people. And so it's good that we're having this generational exchange with this movie. I agree. I think it's a good choice. And we will dig deep into these two films and what they mean and why they continue to

resonate. Before we do that, though, let's just talk about your history with the show. Um, you were not the first producer of the show. Zach Mack was the original producer of The Big Picture, and he was with us for a short time. And then, so what is your... I honestly can't remember how you came in. How did you come in? What's your background?

I started at The Ringer as an intern in July of 2018. It was a three month internship. After that, we needed warm bodies, you know? We were making a lot of shows, not a lot of producers, not a lot of audio people. And so I got hired full time to work on basically the Ringer MBA show feed, was where I was doing the most work.

And then aforementioned Zach Mack left right after that. And his kind of suite of shows of mostly pop culture shows had to get passed on to some people. And I had just been brought on full-time right before that. And I got the big pick, Kaya McMullen got the watch and Craig Horlbeck got the rewatchables. And all three of us are here seven years later, still doing stuff at the Ringer. Shout out to them. And so yeah, I started in the fall

like right around the same time that the show went to twice a week. And I had done a little bit of stuff like filling in for Zach over the summer as he was working on other stuff. So you know, I mentioned here on the dock that my first interview that I engineered for the show back when interviews were like only in person way pre pandemic days and back when that was like the core cornerstone of the show was with McHugh for Mission Impossible Fallout, which at the time, I mean, I liked the Mission Impossible movies just fine, but I was not certainly not a connoisseur of them like I am now and like you guys are. I'm certainly not a connoisseur of them like I am now and like you guys are. So I don't even think I was just so nervous to fuck up the recording that I didn't even really register McHugh coming in and how relevant it was and what his relationship would be with TC heading forward. I was just there to be like, I really hope that I don't mess this up.

This is the first serious recording I'm ever engineering at The Ringer. So you have been in charge of many recordings over the years. Does that anxiety ever go away? It started to go away probably after like a year, but back in the day, like we were on an old Hollywood lot that was not built to be a podcast studio or several podcast studios. Unlike now. And so, I mean, I won't comment on that.

We'll save that for JMO actually, but there was like ghosts in the machine, you know? It would just stop working from time to time. I won't comment on that. We'll save that for JMO actually. But there was like ghosts in the machine, you know? It would just stop working from time to time. The infamous CPU overload, which no one was ever sure what that actually meant. Was just like the computer just would give up sometimes and it would stop recording.

And every once in a while I would have to ask you guys like, hey, can you guys do a pickup? If not, I'll just have to cut this line. And every single time, I have a very vivid memory of covering Jam Session of being like, hey, Amanda, the CPU overload happened. We lost about 15 seconds. Do you want to do a pickup?

And you were just like, just cut it. I got to get out of here. Just cut that. And so seriously, we take our jobs here. Well, you know, I value your time too. The nerves for like a normal episode would go away, but for jobs here. Well, you know, I value your time too. The nerves for like a normal episode would go away, but for like a big one, you know,

like as we started to have Tarantino on the pod or whatever it might be, or like if we were going on site somewhere and interviewing someone, there's always stuff that could go wrong when that happens. So I started to get less nervous on a normal episode and, you know, I would save that for the episodes that really mattered. So what was your first official episode recording with me and Amanda? I don't know for certain but I think it was introducing

the Oscars show which was the first one that we launched that was like with all the categories and everything. And the clips. And the clips, yes. I have this very vivid memory of you came up with the show with the clip titles or with the segment titles rather. And I was like, oh, I'll make some bumper clips for these. I'll drop some music or whatever, or I'll play an audio clip from a movie. Do you have suggestions? And you slacked me back a list of suggestions

and what songs you wanted me to play underneath them, but the clips themselves, you didn't have like time codes for where these were in these movies. And I have a very vivid memory of the night before that recording just scouring through The Intern, the 2015 movie with Anne Hathaway and Robert De Niro, looking for this one line where Anne Hathaway's character

says this is a problem in the big picture. For the big picture's big picture segment that we used to do on the Oscar show. And I must have watched the whole movie. And I was simultaneously like, I'm getting paid to watch the intern, but also if I don't find this clip, I'll probably be fired and never work again.

But I found it and we rolled with it. I genuinely remember listening to that episode afterwards and thinking to myself, this fucking kid did everything I wanted. Like, he did, he nailed it. These were all the spots I wanted. Some of them were a little easier to identify than others. I think I sent a YouTube clip of Gypsy, right? You did, you did.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, to have the YouTube clips was great, but then not every one of these IMDB quotables. But not every one of the IMDB quotable lines or whatever is going to have a YouTube clips was great, but then not every one of these IMDB quotables... But not every one of the IMDB quotable lines or whatever is gonna have a YouTube clip version. But this is a throwaway line in the 2015 movie that is like... Even the small snatch of music from Salsation from Saturday Night Fever, like you nailed it. Was it the David Shrier score? And I was like, I hope he finds the right place for it. And he did. That's why Bob was Bob for as long as he was.

Personal highlights from the show. I've assembled a list of four clips that I would like to play for you guys of four of my favorite moments. I thought we were doing them. And this is, oh, great, you have them. Okay, go ahead. I do, I do have them.

So I'm gonna play a couple of clips for you guys here. The first two, I think are the two happiest moments of Sean's life, like non-Alice category in like the last 25 years. So I'm going to play those first two for you here. I know what this is. I'm Sean Fennessy. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about the 92nd Academy Awards and Bong Joon-ho! Ha ha ha ha!

We did it! Everyone, feel it! We did it, everybody! Parasite wins best picture. Amanda, how are you feeling? I'm really glad we dressed up. We dressed up. I was feeling bad about that decision,

but now we have something to celebrate. We could have been in jeans and a t-shirt. That was a good one. Yeah, that's, yeah jeans and a t-shirt. That was a good one. Yeah. That was a great night. That was a great night. It was weird vibes to be, that was the first time I was like working it deep into the night on a Sunday night at this like old Hollywood lot that is like definitely haunted.

But it was all worth it because Parasite won. I think my favorite part of that clip is that you can hear the people who are like shooting it on video. I remember Sean you in particular. Sean you just yelling, yeah. I love that. Yeah, that was fun. So intriguingly, that was the last time anyone was happy. I think that was late February of 2020, pandemic hit.

February 10th, 2020 was the date on that bad boy. Yeah, and downward spiral for five and a half consecutive years. I'm glad we're all together for that though. That was a truly great moment. What else? That was, okay, here's the second clip here. There are only six reviews for this product on their website.

They're all five stars. Congratulations to them. Subscribe to Fiesta. Oh, Sean made it in. Fiesta in a bottle. Okay. Fiesta in a bottle. Okay. Fiesta in a bottle. I tried it. Did you guys try it? Not yet.

Okay. You have completed your jury duty. I fucking told you that you wouldn't have to go. I told you. We fucking did it! I told you! We did it! You're so happy. I've never seen you so happy.

I'm happy for you. That was really memorable. Scheme worked! I don't think I've ever heard that. You were like, eight drinks in, in your garage. Basically. Doing the like, movie liquor taste test. Definitely. We'd eaten, we'd done all the liquors.

That sounds like that was canned margaritas, which was towards the end of this experiment. No, I think that was actually maybe Delola? Fiesta in a bottle? Oh, yeah. J.Lo's V8 juice. Not good. Um, yeah, it was not good. Anybody who hasn't heard that episode, we did a movie star liquor taste test, where we spent three hours in my garage one afternoon,

and I think the middle of August, drinking and potting all afternoon. And it was July 31st, because it was for Amanda's birthday. Yeah, it was my birthday. It was your birthday. It was, I think it was one of our great moments. Many of my fondest bad memories. I still, I can't see Miles Teller's, what's the drink called?

Long drink. You know, I went to Fenway this past weekend to see a Red Sox series. I saw a bunch of people drinking long drink. You were there? What game were drink called? Long drink. Long drink. You know, I went to Fenway this past weekend to see a Red Sox series. I saw a bunch of people drinking long drink. Wait, you were there? What game were you there? In Boston? Yes.

I was there on Saturday and Sunday. I was there on Saturday afternoon. Oh no! How did I not know you were at Fenway? Fuck! In Boston? I saw the dot insert! That's so random!

Oh wow. Damn it, Bobby! I didn't know! I was there with all my in-laws. But they had long drink? Yeah, they had long drink. I saw some people carrying it around in the concourse. All right.

Well, I'm really sad that I missed you at Fenway. I did meet, I met a listener, by the way. Shout out to that listener. He was an Orioles fan. I don't know how it turned out for him. That sucks, but I'm going, I'm gonna regather it. I had a great time. It was my first time at Fenway. You...

Great park. At the Long Drink, because the Long Drink was like at the end of the taste test. I liked it. And we were, no, Bobby was like, how can I invest? Yeah. Like, capitalism Bobby came out after like three hours of drinking. I told many people about Long Drink. I said, Long Drink, here's my email. If you want to send me some stuff,

we can get something going here. Is Miles Taylor still involved in that project? I think so. I don't know, I'm just saying yes. Got another dub for Miles. Eagle Super Bowl, Top Gun Mavericks, Long Drink. The Gorge. The Gorge.

Well, we all have lows. Okay, are there more? He's planning over the gates of hell to get to Anya Taylor, Joyous Face. Yeah, there are two more here. Okay, great. The next one is my favorite Amanda moment in the history of the pod. Oh, no.

Oh, no. I think I know what this is. I'm Sean Fennessy. I'm Amanda Davins. And this is the Big Picture, a conversation show about Oscar nominations, the Zone of Interest, Sundance. I stand by this. And Hillary Clinton, of course.

I asked you guys to stay offline. You know, I asked you. I told you not to post. And look, here we are, once again, somehow roped into the same-ish box as Hillary Clinton. That's what I'm angry about. As I said, I was not angry about the nominations. I understood, I didn't agree with all of it, but I am fucking angry that somehow I had to deal with Hillary Clinton again. Hillary Clinton, go do something. Like, honestly, we have problems. I'm serious,

like multiple horrific conflicts in the world, climate change. Like, if it needs to be a girl boss thing, then like pay equity, maternal health. The fact that it takes six months to get a gynecologist appointment. I'm still paying taxes on tampons like there are a lot of issues. But not this. Show me the lie. There was no lie. I think that I- And by the way, nothing has changed. She's done jack shit. Takes three months to get a mammogram appointment.

You know what I'm saying? Welcome to your 40s. Jesus. Just incredible. I think right after that clip, right where I stopped it, I said that was the greatest moment in the history of the big picture. And I stand by that. I think that was some really good stuff. Thank you for your support, Bob.

I knew that was coming the moment the tweet hit. When that tweet was posted, I was like, we are gonna have an incredible episode today. I told myself, I was like, I was in the drive on the way there, I was like, I'm gonna keep it together. They're not gonna get me into this. Good stuff. And then they got me into it.

For anyone who doesn't remember, the context for that was that Hillary Clinton tweeted about Barbie not getting enough nominations at the Oscars. And she was like, same girl, you know? What's it feel like to lose to a man and get more votes or whatever? I don't know if we, I don't know if she actually did the shoulder waggle that you were just rocking there, but maybe the head bob. Honestly, she probably did. Okay, the only moment that could ever hold a candle to that, of course, probably the most talked about turning point in the history of the big picture, this is my final clip for you guys.

Okay. There is a lot of sameness in the tent. We're doing a lot of Western vistas. We are doing a lot of like rich outdoorsy, neo-Western stuff here. Where Fargo is just like the whitewashed Great Plains, I said not Great Plains, right? Minnesota? Land of Lakes? Chris, Fargo's in North Dakota.

That's right. Sean is just glaring it, Chris. This is like angry Sean body language. I'm just gonna narrate this breakdown in real time. Nostrils flaring. Where's Rango set? (*laughter*) Also in the American West.

That was a... Also in the Life of the mind. And that's a frog who's a sheriff, right? He's not a frog. He's not a frog. He's a gecko. Is he sheriff? Is that like a top top 10 frog sheriff? He's at where his rank go.

This is a shameful podcast. I think we need to stop and delete this. I can't. That was so good. It's nice that you can laugh now. It's still hurtful. It's still hurtful. You got everything you bargained for, you know, that made the show what it became.

That moment, tapping into that absolute insanity. You got everything you bargained for, you know, that made the show what it became. That moment, tapping into that absolute insanity, that zaniness. You were in the room for that. From Sheriff, right? Yeah. I was. Yeah, yeah. For some reason, we were shooting that on video.

This was like five years before we ever started doing video stuff. Right. But we decided that that episode for Deacons needed to be captured on video. For breakouts or something? I guess for breakouts. And that breakout is easy to find on YouTube. That is the Roger Deakins Hall of Fame episode in which we ran through every episode or every film that Roger Deakins worked on to try to narrow it down to 10. This was an early Hall of Fame, early in the concept of us doing this on the show. And Deakins is obviously a legend. And so he had worked on so

much stuff and so many Coen Brothers movies, and you just could not, you had a really hard time getting rid of any of the Coen Brothers movies. And so. You're so. You were getting so mad at the idea of getting rid of Fargo.

And it was a real like take my ball and go home moment. You know, like there have been a few of those. It's like, that was the funniest one. Obviously Avengers Endgame. That was a tough one. That was a tough one, yeah. I can't remember, there was another one recently where it was just like, you quit on usgame. That was a tough one. That was a tough one, yeah. Um, I can't remember. There was another one recently where it was just like,

you quit on us. Brad Pitt and George Clooney. Yeah, what was going on there? I just really thought Chris let me down on that one. I just was like, I need you to bring the same energy that I'm bringing to this, and then he didn't want to. And then I had to be like, will you, Zach, you know, Amanda's husband betray Amanda?

And he was like, I'm not gonna do that in public. Yeah, I was eight months pregnant. But yeah, it was tough. Anyhow, uh do that in public. I was eight months pregnant. But yeah, it was tough. Anyhow... That was funny. Did Fargo stay on the list? I honestly can't remember. I don't think it did. I don't think it did. My dad was trying to guess 25 for 25 entries the other day.

And he was like, what about Fargo? I was like, well, dad, that was 1996. His other guesses were... He told me it was our guest. Barry Levinson's Ten Men, which I told him was released in the 80s. And then he's like, I guess the Godfather films are too old, right? I was like, okay, goodbye, Dad. Oh, and then finally, Michael Haneke's The White Ribbon, which, spoiler alert, is not on the list.

I kind of wanted it on. And God, shout out Knox for just the big knocks for saying that. I think the white ribbon would make for a very chill 25 for 25 episode. Anyway, Fargo not on the list because it was released in 1996. Or seven. Not on the Deacons Hall of Fame and not on the 25 for 25. Oh, it didn't make the Hall of Fame? I don't think it did.

You just kept talking about like the white Vistas. Yeah, this is the car. You know, all the snow. Coming over the mountain. Well, it's communicating about the internal lives of the characters. You know, that's really his art. That's what he does. Chris was so mad when he tried to take Sicario off that list. I thought he was actually gonna turn in his resignation letter.

Yeah. It's been noted before to us by many people that that obviously was the turning point of the whole show. Like it is the... I don't know what the fuck was in the air that day, but we were like, I guess this is what it is now and this is what everyone wants. And I'm happy to give the people what they want, which is me having mild emotional breakdowns about meaningless things. That's that.

I think what was actually in the air was that we started putting full sized water bottles in the studio and I think all three of you had to pee a lot. Oh, but I was really, really desperate to pee. And like we still were never taking a break, no matter what. Yes. And normal pods would just be like, can we stop down for five minutes? No problem. But for whatever reason, I learned this from Bill. Bill was like, you'll sit there for two and a half hours

and you will not move. And if you move, we're gonna have a big problem. And he wouldn't actually say that, but that was the vibe. There was, like, a closed energy of, like, no breaks, no windows that we had for a while there. There was no air conditioning in the studio. Before video and that really, that did bring something special, you know, so. Just an amazing collection of clips from two weird 40-somethings being observed by a 20-something who maybe, maybe sees his future, you know, maybe you were looking down the, down the telescope towards your path.

Yeah. I mean, I think that I, part of the reason that we, uh, I feel like God have gotten along so well over the years is that I'm a 20 something sort of like trapped. I'm a 40 something trapped in a 20 something person's body. You know, I'm a grouch. I'm crank 40-something trapped in a 20-something person's body. You know, I'm a grouch. I'm cranky about things. I'm perfectly nice to the people around me, but I have kind of washed opinions and takes about things. And I feel like that's slotted well in with you guys.

Well, you've just segued magnificently to Shrek. Washed opinion. So, let's talk about it. Now, you've put together, like, a lot of thoughts around the film, why it matters to you, why we're going to talk about it. Now, you've put together, like, a lot of thoughts around the film, why it matters to you, why we're gonna talk about it, what it means in the context of 21st century movie history. I think it's a great pick also because we've been doing

25 for 25, and we just did a conversation about Spirited Away. And so, animated films and this being such a huge breakthrough for DreamWorks, so... You wanna let the people know that Shrek is not on 25 for 25. Didn't make it. I hope this episode suffices, because it's not on the list. It's not on the top 100.

It's not on the top 300. Not on the top 500. Is it in your top 25 movies of the century, Bobby? Definitely not. But it is in the one for one of Bobby leaving episodes. So in a way, it's more prestigious than 25 for 25. It's perfect programming. I chose Shrek mostly because you guys probably wouldn't want to watch Spirit Style in the Cimarron.

But I think that it's a movie that's like incredibly important to opening up the world of animation to people of my age, along with the Miyazaki movies, ironically, beyond just Disney and Pixar, Disney Pixar movies. I think it was DreamWorks in that era of the turn of the 21st century was the first time that I really remember watching feature-length movies that were animation and Shrek is just I mean we're gonna talk more about each movie individually but Shrek is this almost intoxicating blend of like voice performances that are really really going for it while also just like it's it's maximalism it's animation maximalism there's like a million characters, million fairy tale characters, a lot of jokes, like way too fast for my young mind to ever comprehend.

And yeah, I just think that it carries such an important legacy. When I hear from listeners of The Big Picture, they're like, you guys gotta let Sean and Amanda know how important Shrek is. Because you guys have dumped on it a couple times over the years. You've dumped on this franchise. And I feel like part of my role on the show since I started was standing up. Having a backbone. Speaking for Gen Z.

Speaking for the youth. Yes, of course. For your generation, Gen Z. Speaking for the generation behind me to come. Yes. I am going to say like this is... I know that technically you maintain according to the dates that you're a young millennial. And I do think this is another piece in my argument

that you are like technically Gen Z, that this means so much to you, but it's fine. You can be a bridge. You can be- I go whichever way the wind goes. No, you can't pin me down. That's fine. Can you set the scene for us?

How old was Bobby? Where was Bobby in your life when you saw Shrek for the first time? God, I was only five when the first Shrek movie came out. I was in high school. I definitely, definitely. I was a sophomore in college. These, this age range, like this,

or this exact date range is the date range where like our ages are so dramatically. It's the craziest. Yes. Yes. It's the craziest gap. Yeah, I was five and I saw it in theaters and I was immediately hooked.

But I honestly don't have that vivid of a memory of going to see it in the theater. I have a lot more of a memory of just putting the DVD in repeatedly, not just at my own house but that would be just the thing that you would do when you would go to someone else's house for the first two hours of your five-hour playdate or whatever, you'd watch Shrek. And then you'd play the Shrek video game, which came out a few years later. And yeah, it was just an incredibly, not to borrow a phrase of the Ringer Podcast Network, but re-watchable movie. The jokes never got old. And I think that's for a number of the Ringer Podcast Network, but re-watchable movie. The jokes never got old.

And I think that's for a number of reasons. Probably the biggest reason is that just Eddie Murphy of the whole situation. This is my gateway to Eddie Murphy, like one of the greatest comic forces in American history, if not the greatest comic force in American history. And it's funny to say it that way, now sort of backtracking his career,

being surrounded by people who are, have much more first-hand experience with his earlier work and becoming familiar with just like how important his role on SNL is, not just to people who are older than me, but like literally to the foundation of the ringer. Like Eddie Murphy making Bill Simmons laugh at a young age is like the reason that we're all here doing what we're doing in a lot of ways. There's definitely a reason for that.

And it's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I mean, that was part of the narrative at the time when the movie was released was why did it take so long for Eddie Murphy to have a part like this? And he and Mike Myers being two comic powerhouses with SNL pedigree. But, you know, the movie is fairly strange, I would say. I think you've, like, located something... that makes a lot of sense, which is that... there's a kind of, um... meta-ironic quality to the, like, upending of the fairy tale story, right?

Like, that's the whole point of the movie, is, like, we're doing almost like the, like, airplane, but for fairy tales, but animated. You know, that there's, like, it's of the fairy tale story, right? That's the whole point of the movie is, like, we're doing almost like the airplane, but for fairy tales, but animated. You know, that there's like, it's like a joke a minute. Everything is like, plays on words or plays on character expectations. It's not the first time this has happened. The two movies that I thought about

as I was revisiting this were, Who Framed Roger Rabbit, where it was just like breaking rules about where characters could be and where they could live and who could talk to each other and who couldn't and who could coexist. And then the other... Which was a huge movie for me, by the way. I have a vivid memory of putting that into the VHS a lot when I was a kid. They have a lot in common for sure. And they both were kind of like at the vanguard of a certain kind of like animation style. Anyway, the other one was Clerks. Wouldn't think five-year-old Bobby watching Shrek would be able

to watch Clerks and enjoy it, and you wouldn't. But 10 or 12 years later, you might because this, like, pop culture overload sensibility, you know? And every joke being a joke about a joke that's inside of a joke, and it having its own weird rhythms and its own odd relationship to music and our expectations of what characters are supposed to do in a movie and who they actually are. They felt very tied together for me and I saw Clerks, you know, not quite at five, but I think I was like 12 when I saw it.

Right. And then really imprinted on me and I really liked that writing and style. And I think a lot of kids, I mean, you made an amazing observation here in your notes that I think is right on that I think that this informed a kind of like internet tonality right like explain what you were going for when you were identifying that yeah my grand theory about Shrek is that's the first time that the movies and the memes truly became one it's like the singularity for shit posting on the internet about movies and movie characters and I think that that is why Shrek, literally the face of Shrek,

endures in so many different meme formats to this point. The entire meme spectrum, this seems like a ridiculous thing for me to say. No, it's very smart. I think it's true. It's very smart. But it's like there's the like, you know, I would say like Tweet 2012 style memes where it's like the facial expressions that Shrek is making in the movie are like, you know, my feeling when this happens, style memes all the way down to like the deep fried me on 35 milligrams of THC

at the function and my face falls off Shrek memes. Like all of these different things are covered by the Shrek experience. And I think a huge, huge part of that is that the computer animation style of this movie is incredibly uncanny and weird and kind of fucked up in some ways. Like, it looks weird. When you look at Shrek for too long, it's kind of upsetting. Especially in the first one, when they were just kind of at the vanguard of this style of animation.

I had a hard time looking at the first film when we were in it last night. I was like, wow, this is really ugly. Yeah, it's very ugly. But in a way that is sort of uncanny valley in its own way. No, I think the meme thing is very smart, Bobby. And again, like plays into my understanding of this is really like the cultural bridge between people our age and people your age. Because we learned about this very like meta,

self-referential pop culture infused, like just mile a minute type of storytelling from, you know, Tarantino and Kevin Smith, I guess you want. And even, you know, like Aaron Sorkin, everything in the 90s is like... The TV shows, yeah. Yeah, you know, you talk really fast

and you show off how much you know, and that's how you relate with other people. Stand-up comedians were like this as well. Yes, exactly. And so it's, you know, a form of humor that we got in movies or TV shows, and that then you guys digest through, you know, and it is very cleverly using references that you would have at Five, which is every single other fairy tale.

That's kind of like your pop cultural library at this point. And then teaching, giving the language to the younger kids and then you just put it on the internet and make some glorious memes. And then it's helpful because, you know, it helps me understand memes because you're using the same, like, building blocks that we were, but just to do funny things on the internet. It is amazing.

I had never seen Shrek 2 before, but I have seen all the memes, you know? So it was like, it's funny. It's like when you watch like a film from the 40s and you're like, oh, that's where they got this. But it was like me for Shrek 2 with the internet being like, oh, there's Puss in Boots, you know? Oh, I see it.

Yeah, well, it's interesting too, because these movies are made, you know, by old Gen X and young boomers. You know, like those are the people who created, who wrote the scripts, adapted the book, the directors of the films. They're not elder millennials, they're not even young Gen Xers. The people who wrote and directed this movie

are all in their mid-60s now, and they were already kind of 20 years down the road on their careers in Hollywood. And so it's interesting that they were able to locate a sensibility that would appeal so intensely to five-year-olds and that would carry them through 25 years. You know, we haven't even mentioned that Puss in Boots, like that's also a franchise that continues on.

Like there have been now, I think, six Shrek-related films and the seventh is coming. So it has kind of just every three to four years, there is a new Shrek movie and it never expired, even though if you got into it at five, you're like, I guess I just kind of have to see everything that they do. Do you still have that relationship to it?

Do you still feel like you have to see every Shrek related object? No, I mean, I definitely have seen the first four because I was contemporary with them, but I know Puss in Boots The Last Wish, which came out somewhere in the haze of the pandemic in my mind, like late pandemic era. I think it was 2022. Yeah, I never watched it. Oh, it's good. Yeah, I heard that it was like pretty well liked and I just I never got around to watching it and

something about the Puss in Boots, like franchise-ification, like that character occupies like the minions territory, where it's like we've clearly hit something that is like unbelievably addictive to children. This cat who talks in Antonio Banderas' voice, which honestly the first time he comes on the screen, it's genuinely really funny. It's really, really good. Especially since, well, and this is another link between Spy Kids and Shrek is Banderas, who just from a very young age, I was like, that guy is the epitome of cool. That guy is my god forever.

I mean, not wrong, you know? Yeah. And that I just like didn't quite respond to as much as the original Shrek films. But yeah, so I'm not like, I don't necessarily have like season tickets where I will just show for any Shrek product like I will for you know, maybe the Mission Impossible movies or whatever, but Yeah, it endures I think and I do think there are a lot of people who are like that and for that reason anxiously awaiting Shrek 5 having seen the trailer and And for that reason, anxiously awaiting Shrek 5, having seen the trailer and are getting a little bit worried

about like this much of an advancement in the technology is now going to take us too far away from what the original Shrek is about. It's not going to look right. Crude animation and awkward heart jokes from a Scottish ogre. I spent some time on Shrek Reddit this morning. Oh, that's right. Just RShrek? Yeah, which has 110,000 subscribers. So it's a vibrant community.

It's not our OK Buddy Shrek. You know the OK Buddy. Yeah, no, it's just RShrek. And they seem very concerned about the animation style of Shrek 5. I mean, that is the job of a subreddit devoted to Shrek, is to be upset about... And, you know, we saw what happened with Sonic the Hedgehog, when the people voiced their concerns. That's right. Community spoke and the studio listened.

But it does seem to be a hot mudden issue. I wouldn't say it's keeping me up at night, but I'm glad that there are people that care out there. What... The thing that jumped out to me when I was watching it was the music and the fact that this is clearly a movie made by a bunch of Gen Xers. Where I'm like, there's just like an eel song

in the middle of this movie. You know, obviously the usage of... There sure is. The two Smash Mouth songs, Rufus Wainwright on the soundtrack, John Cale in the movie performing Hallelujah. I had totally blocked out that there's just an entire, like the entire song, Hallelujah montage.

And then, like, 2001 came back to me so profoundly in that moment. Like, I just, you know, and then I remember, like, some kid covering Hallelujah at, like, a school assembly, you know, and it was definitely, it was not because of Jeff Buckley or anything else, it was because of Shrek. Yeah. Yeah. That is, I mean, that... That rules.

I'm not sure if that rules. I don't, again, and we know how I feel about people singing. And then this person is just up there. Just like at the school assembly. So, I was incredible Joan Jett needle drop in this movie when he's doing WWE, like fighting a bunch of knights. And I can't remember, does this pre-date Freaks and Geeks? Because that Bad Reputation was the theme song

for Freaks and Geeks. And so I was wondering, were these contemporaneous? Was it a coincidence? But that song had a real second life. No, it's like Freaks and Geeks was 99. So it looks like this was after that. It was after. Just having a moment.

I guess. The music in general is really strange, but actually really effective for subverting your expectations of an animated movie. Like this is not, there are no Disney princesses singing. That's true. Beautiful harmonies in this movie. And in fact, the one Disney princess archetype

is in fact at nighttime, an ogre. And I think there's something really cool about the way that the movie kind of consistently upends your expectations of what a story should be. I don't know if it's sophisticated, but it's fun. And I think it- Can I say that I'm a believer needle drop, like the Smash Mouth cover of that song. First of all, it hits way earlier in the movie than I ever remember. It just is like, here we go, we're off to the races. I think that that was probably the peak of the serotonin levels in my brain,

and it's been all downhill since then, the first time I saw that. So that hit and you were like, this is perfect, I feel everything inside of me right now? Yeah. I mean, that was like the Leila in Goodfellas for four-year-olds. in Goodfellas for four-year-olds. You really... You can't overestimate to people who weren't there. And I guess at this point, it's like Jack.

But like, you cannot understand how big a chokehold Smash Mouth had on the public as like off of this movie. You could make the argument that they are the 2000s band. Like they are the band of the 2000s, but better and for worse. But here, I'm okay, so here's the thing about it. I was there for this, trust me. Their first album, Fu Shuman, comes out in 1997. So they were a kind of buzz bin, post-grunge,

where should music go, pivot point kind of a band. And they were, they seemed like kind of a joke. Their lead singer, I think Paul DeLisle was his name, he passed away. Um, had that like croaky, groany thing. He was like a bigger guy. He had spiky hair. He was wearing like Oakleys. But if you listen to the band's first single, which is Walking on the Sun, it's basically a nonconformist, anti-capitalist document.

That's weird to say, because it's a silly song with a silly music video. But they were like a pretty traditional alternative rock band. And they had success with that album. Then they put out Astro Lounge, their second album. That second album had All Star on it, also a hit. And then I, in my mind, in like 2000, 2001, I'm sure I wasn't spending a lot of time thinking about this, but I was like, oh, they had their moment and it's over.

Like, you could have thought, this is kind of the arc of the alternative rock band in the mid to late 90s. They had one album, maybe two, maybe they got a second hit. And then, see you later. So, for you to frame them, and I don't think you're wrong to frame them this way, but for you to frame them as like a 2000s band, I'm like, this is a 90s band to the core, and yet... It's not that I band. I'm like, this is a 90s band to the core.

And yet- It's not that I think that they are like, they are a night, like they are a 2000s band necessarily in the sense that they're like creating music, um, in the model of like whatever the 2000s came to be in terms of like how the music industry changed and that sort of thing. I think that they sound like the 2000s felt to someone who was growing up in that time period. Like this song, maybe that just is because of Shrek, but they're sort of like, their energy, they're like, you know, fuck it, like we're just, we're having fun no matter what we're singing about,

kind of energy that characterizes the songs, I think does sort of align really well with that time period in my mind. They also, to the point of memes, they understood the power of posting too. They were having Twitter feuds with the Oakland Athletics in the mid 2010s still. This is a band that understood the power of the internet and the internetification of entertainment. For better or for worse. They were sort of thrust into it. I made a mistake, the lead singer's name was Steve Harwell. Paul DeWyle was the bassist and the songwriter in the band.

But I wonder if they didn't have the Shrek moment, would they even care about getting involved in internet fights? Like did the Shrekification of Smash Mouth transform everything? But they leaned into it. And they also, you know, being not one but two songs in Shrek is like peak sellout, you know? And then you're just riding the wave, which also has a real early 2000s feel to me. Let's just jam all these bands onto a soundtrack album? Yes. And also, like, everything is just kind of TRL popped, corporated out before things absolutely fall apart

in the mid-2000s. What was on the soundtrack for Shrek 2? Did Smash Mouth make a return? I know that Ken and Crows famously had a song in the opening song. It's unmistakable. Accidentally in Love. Smash Mouth was left on the cutting room floor.

I'll never forget the moment I heard Nick Cave's voice singing a song. It was like a saloon piano player singing a Nick Cave song in Shrek 2. I'm like, we are truly through the looking glass here culturally. This could not be any more weird. Anyway, Shrek 1, massive, massive success. $270 million internationally. As you said, brought back Eddie Murphy in a big way for a new generation.

Plays to adults pretty, pretty, like pretty smartly. So I saw the movie in theaters too. Imagine me being in college going with the boys to go see Shrek, like what a deranged behavior that was. I'm sure we'd had like 14 natty lights all around. It happened. So like, I watched it last night before bed, like, went into bed. And I, you know, said to Zach, I was like, well, I was like, you seen Shrek?

He's like, yeah, more than once. Donkey man. And I was like, I don't even know what to, you know, but I guess we were of an age. Yeah, it just took over. There's no denying that it was for us too, even though we were not little kids. Like, it was just dominant in the culture for that time. Sorry, I was so distracted by looking up the soundtrack for Shrek 2. We got Holdin' Out for a Hero by Frufru. Changes, David Bowie.

I mean, come on. Funky Town? That's great stuff. Sure. That is awesome stuff. Livin' La Vida Loca covered by Banderas and Eddie Murphy. Just great stuff. So Shrek 1 comes out. It's a mega success. Yeah. It wins the first ever best animated feature

Academy Award. Which is fascinating to go back and think about. Sure. Who are its competitors? Well, let's go back and take a look at the 2002 Academy Awards. Shrek, Jimmy Neutron, Boy Genius. What happens in that? Oh wow. Academy Awards. Shrek, Jimmy Neutron boy genius. What happens in that? Oh, wow. One sentence summary, Bob, go.

I don't remember which one that is, but the one sentence summary of Jimmy Neutron is that he is a boy genius with a gigantic head and he is confronted with science-related problems. I honestly think that you could have a whole mini-series doing just Amanda Science Corner for Jimmy Neutron. Yeah, that would go really well. Jimmy Neutron in the movie, I believe there's an alien invasion and Jimmy has to save his parents. Okay.

The other contender was Monsters Inc. Now, wow. Monsters Inc probably earned that one. Monsters Inc losing is fascinating, especially because Pixar would go on to run this category. They've won, I think, north of ten times in this category. And Monster's Inc, I think, is still widely considered one of their best movies. Actually, we just watched it in our house,

and it's still, it's really good. It's a classic. And... But that is a testimony, I think, a very discreet testimony to what a phenomenon Shrek was that at this time when they decided to finally do this. This is like a big movie year. This is like a big, you know, obviously it's in the aftermath of 9-11 and it's right when the I remember it as a very noisy Academy Awards. And so for Shrek to have that spot was a big deal. Very quickly the sequel is put into motion. What should we say about Mike Myers and Cameron Diaz?

Are you guys familiar with the backstory of Mike Myers' role as Shrek? Like how much do you know about how he got this role? Why don't you tell us? I know the whole story. of Mike Myers' role as Shrek? Like, how much do you know about how he got this role? Yeah, go for it. Why don't you tell us, I know the whole story. Well, it was cast, so it was originally gonna be directed as like a normal animated movie, not this like weird uncanny valley DreamWorks style.

And it was gonna be directed by Steven Spielberg. He was the person who originally optioned this book that it is very loosely based on. Yeah, William Steve's book. The characters are based on. William Steve, a legend. Yeah, and the movie was proceeding. Spielberg had decided not to direct it, I guess,

but the movie was proceeding and it was gonna be voiced by Chris Farley and then Chris Farley died during the production of the movie. And Mike Myers was interested, I think, from prior to when Farley got cast and then wanted to come in and take over as in the role and Like very late in the production process made this like crazy choice to give the Shrek character a Scottish accent Which he didn't have when he was performed by Farley because he wanted to distance his own

Performance from the performance that Farley had given when he was originally going to voice it over and in doing so Created like a whole lot of new work for the animators and they spent like half a million dollars on refitting the visuals to match his Scottish accent or whatever. And to be honest, I actually can't imagine the movie with Shrek just doing a normal voice. I can't imagine him not having a Scottish accent. It is such a huge part of why it is just inherently funny from the jump that he is talking like this.

It's particularly strange when you hear about what Myers's relationship is to that accent. But Farley was apparently five days away from completing his voice performance, which was going to be completed before the animation was done. And they changed the animation style a couple of times. They attempted to do it in more of like a, I think originally more of like a motion capture style. And then that proved too difficult. And so they moved to just the traditional computer animation style. But

so Farley can't finish it. Myers steps in. Myers really likes the character. He records the entire track in a normal American accent. I think he does another one in a Canadian accent. Okay. Which of course, Mike Myers is from Canada, that doesn't really work. And then at the last minute he says he wants to try the Scottish accent. Now, under normal circumstances... Which is something that you said to me before that first episode

of The Big Miffle that I produced, and I count to not to do that. If only I had gone down that route, I would have felt more comfortable in my true voice. But... You'd be like, that's a really quirky choice by a comic actor, but it's something you might hear the comic actor does from time to time. Except for the fact that Mike Myers had done this twice already. Yeah, well, I don't mind it.

I don't mind it either, but it's really weird when you're like, his most famous roles are Scottish guys. Yeah, no, it's very strange. It's like, it's weird, but don't you think that brings our generation in a little bit because we remember So I Married an Axe Murderer? That's it. That's it. So I Married an Axe Murderer, obviously his character's father is a Scotsman. Uh, you know, he'd...

-"Head! Hens!" -"Bring it with us!" No! It's like an orange with a toothpick. You know, like all that. Have you seen So I Married an Axe Murderer? Has that made it to you? No, I haven't. Oh, my God. Dude, you gotta watch it. It is so...

Maybe you won't laugh at all, and that would be really funny too. But like, I don't think I've ever laughed more during a rewatchables than when you guys did So I Married an Axe Murder. And it wasn't anything you were saying, you just played the clips and I started giggling. Um, the clips...

Okay, so just to set the scene for those of you out there listening who have not seen So I Married an Axe Murder, I believe the first time that we see, Um, the clips, okay, so just to set the scene for those of you out there listening, who have not seen Sorry I Married an Ex-Murder, I believe the first time that we see, uh, Mike Myers' father in the film, played by Mike Myers in Old Man Makeup, he is sitting on his couch, it's Saturday night, he's about to watch a soccer match and host his son and his best friend. His wife, played by Brenda Fricker, is dusting their wall, which is the Scottish Hall of Fame.

And he is singing the Bay City Rollers Saturday night, and he's saying, S-A-T-U-R-D-A-Y, night! It's like the funniest fucking thing I've ever seen in my entire life. And then obviously five years later, he brings this voice back for Fat Bastard. So Fat Bastard in Austin Powers 2, the spy who shagged me.

That made its way to me as a kid. And Fat Bastard, what could play better to a young boy than Fat Bastard, some magical film creation? So he's like, okay, I've already done two classic Scots for my movie performances, and now this ogre needs to be Scottish. And yet somehow, like in the mythology of ogres, it just kind of tracks, even if it's not factually accurate. I mean, I guess this is like Brigadoon inflected,

but like all fairy tales take place somewhere in Scotland in my mind, even though I think many of them are of Germanic tradition. You know, obviously Scandinavia has got a big hold there. So, but yes. Classics major, she came through. Scotland is where it's happening. I'm just immediately primed to laugh because I know that it's Mike Myers doing it.

And rewatching it, I do think he's sort of the unsung hero of this movie. Mike. Yeah, Eddie Murphy is amazing and so funny, but Mike Myers has to be kind of like the straight man and get you emotionally involved It's a real performance. While also being like a Scottish ogre. And you do buy all of it. So I think he's quite good. Would love to talk about Cameron Diaz. Okay.

You know, that's her voice. She plays Fiona. She showed up. She talked into a microphone. You despise Cameron Diaz? No, uh, Charlie's Angels is one of the great moments in cinema history. Okay. Uh, Bobby, you did not see the counselor before you saw Shrek.

So what were your feelings on Cameron Diaz when you saw this film? I mean, I don't know that I was even registering... I don't think I really cared who voiced who until I had watched Shrek like 40 times and I was like, I'd like more of this donkey guy, that guy's pretty funny. I think she does a good job.

Your contention was, Manda, that she's mailing it in? No, there's just not like a lot of there there, but there's not a lot of there there to Fiona in this film. So that'll give- Not until Shrek 2. Not until Shrek 2. So it's not really her fault. Also, just to take it back to movie star liquor taste test, we did like her wine.

It was late in the game, but we thought that the Avaline wine was pretty good. That's a collab with Benji Madden? No, I think that's hers. It's the collab with Catherine Power, who also makes Merritt the makeup, which started a long and fruitful I thought they bought that winery together. No, it's not the whole thing.

Didn't she get married to a Madden? She did but he's been written out. It's now her wine in the marketing. Okay, but is he still in the picture? Yeah, I think they're together. Oh, that's nice. Yeah good. Anyway, the wine was good We liked it. Yes, you I remember you guys liking it liking it very much. I was a little kind of mixed on it. Not my kind of wine. Are you a wine person? I like red wine, but I like it to be a little more dry. But is this about like macros? No.

Okay. I think wine is okay. As far as alcohols go, it's like decent for macros. I mean, it's relatively sugary, but red wine has some good effects. Talk to me about Shrek's, uh's bulking, cutting and bulking routine. I think he came out of the womb like that. I don't think he has to work too hard to get like that. I will talk to you about the second movie, how he's built is a fascinating, also a deeply

upsetting stretch of the movie when he's turned into like a normal looking guy and they're like, this is supposed to be the hottest guy on Earth and he's like a very upsetting looking man to me. I don't think that really worked. He does look a bit like a bulking and cutting influencer though. He does. He looks a little bit like the mountain. Or like leftover steroids, which is another thing that you taught me, which is when the men are like large but slightly mushy,

it's because often they stopped doing their treatments. Mm-hmm. I'm really glad that on my way out here, I'm leaving you with some building blocks. I'm leaving you with some really important knowledge about HGH usage. Bobby, you know I will always text you with questions. This relationship is not over. Yeah. And I will always answer. That's another one of the core tenets of being the producer of the big picture is that I'm just awake all of the time and I answer text messages at any hour of the night. You know there's like Girl Creatine now, right?

You know that that market has opened up? I've heard about this. I recently learned about it in relation to Jennifer Lopez, but I don't know as much about it. Can you teach me? I mean, I just saw on the internet that an influencer that I follow and like, but I don't know as much about it. Can you teach me what's the situation? I mean, I just saw on the internet that an influencer that I follow and like, and I mostly use her recommendations for like garbage bags

and stuff on Amazon, but she was posting a certain brand of creatine that I recognized as like, you know, I recognized the supplement brand. Oh, so it's just creatine. It's not like a separate supplement. It's also creatine. Yeah, no, it's just, and it's like,

it's like shaped like the jars, you know, like the GNC jars, but it just has peak labeling and it says creatine. And it's like, oh, wow, the approach, like this has made it over to girl internet. So here we are. Where does this fall on the alignment chart with girl lira, which was like a bit that we did on the pod for like two years. I mean, you can definitely only buy girl creatine with girl lira. And I think it is like also super, what's the word?

I'm like, like the exchange rate is not what you want. You know, you're paying a premium because of this girl. Exactly. I see. I see. When was the last time you took a scoop of creatine, Sean? It's been a while. Before holding those dumbbells out for 30 straight minutes.

No, no protein powder for me. I don't, I don't really believe in it either. I've started doing other, I mean- I think I actually have a reasonably good protein-inflected diet, so I'm not terribly concerned about that. I'm trying to find natural sources. I do now, Bobby, because of you do the magnesium

for sleeping, and it's helping. Nice. Yeah. Nice. Magnesium glycanate. I'm not a doctor. You're not? Just, you know, covering my legal basis. I realize this is in the spirit of the big picture and everything that you've been a

part of on this show, Bob. It's Shrek 2. How do we get back there? Show me a transition. Okay, so his build. Show me a segue. It was about his Shrek 2 build. Yes.

When he turned 2. Well, the answer to how he gets to that is that in the first movie, we see a little bit of a window into his diet, which it sounds like he's eating a lot of rats Which I guess is a lot of lean protein, but I found that to be a very upsetting scene But it was romantic between them when they share the rats So that's how we get there. He's barbecuing No communicable diseases in those rats like presumably if you eat a rat whatever rat is carrying you're ingesting That seems like a little dicey for that ogre. I know he's an ogre, but still.

What's the world that they live in? Like, what's the name of, like, is it Never Never Land? Is it, and that's Peter Pan. I don't really know that they specify, they specify where they're going, the kingdom of Duloc in the first one, and then far, far away. Do we have a lot of history?

Are there communicable diseases there? Oh. You know? You think they've kind of wiped everything out? I don't, I mean, I'm just wondering. We like, we don't, you don't hear about any plague and it is sort of like. They have much more of a pro-vaccine disposition. Renaissance neglected. I mean, that would be nice. Um, I, they have, they don't mention anything about handwashing and all the rules.

So maybe. There's no masking culture. Maybe germs are not a concern. They have, they don't mention anything about hand washing and all the rules, so maybe germs... There's no masking culture, obviously. Maybe germs are not a concern. Although those knights do have those face shields. But that's to protect your eyes and your other stuff. And your mouth, yeah. Didn't matter for Shrek, he was straight up dropping the tombstone, like he was doing WWE moves,

it was incredible. I... I don't know. You think it's like a Maha-ha screed Shrek? This is what America could be if only you would sign up? For what? I don't think that's the case. I don't know. You could live in a fairy tale existence if you didn't get vaccinated.

I don't know. Whatever the fuck the movie's trying to tell you. No, I think they have vaccines. I think everyone, uh, you know, went along with it. And so now everyone's healthy. Okay. Well, what they do clearly have in the second movie is they have a supplement culture because Fairy Godmother runs a factory of wellness products

and love products that she sells to people to get rich. Well, sure, because Fiona's from LA. The second movie being, yeah, exactly. The second movie being about her being an Angeleno is very funny to me. I think that's a pretty good bit. Does Goop predate Shrek 2? What year is Shrek 2?

2004. No, Shrek 2 was first. When did Goop launch? I want to say 2007 or 8. Okay. Sounds an awful lot like Shrek 2 invented Goop. Shrek 2... I think it did invent Goop. Okay. I mean, Cameron Diaz and Gwyneth Paltrow are good friends.

I don't think Gwyneth Paltrow has seen Shrek or Shrek 2, though. She did have small children around this time, but, you know, she doesn't watch the Avengers movies, so I don't think she's doing that for her friends. Gwyneth, it's Cameron. I'm working on a film right now. It's called Shrek 2. There's a plot line for my character related to supplements, and I had some thoughts.

Maybe you could have a business built entirely around Fiona and Fairy Godmother's lifestyle. You say what? Cameron Diaz should have gotten Charlie Rose's show. That would have been great, actually. They should give her an interview show. I would watch every single one. What is she interested in?

What's she about? Wine. Once for Goof, she did a crunchy vegan salad. And it didn't seem like it had enough dressing for my taste. What else? She's interested in retiring early. Yeah, vacations. That's what we learned 10 years ago.

Or spending time with her family. Yeah, that sounds very healthy. I like that. Maybe she should have a supplement company. I think that's it. I think that's all I know about Cameron Diaz. Okay. We neglected to mention John Lithgow as Lord Farquaad in the first film, Command Perfume. We didn't really talk much about Farquaad and the whole Duloc situation. What's your take on that? Um... The song that introduces Duloc. Duloc situation. What's your take on that?

The song that introduces Duloc, Duloc is a perfect place. Welcome to Duloc. That's just some of the funniest shit I've ever seen in my life. I still crack up every single time I see that. Do you know the Muffin Man? The Muffin Man? The Muffin Man is funny.

That it's so, it's very funny. The Gingerbread Man bit was, that was a notable moment in the movie for sure, back when we saw it. I was more partial to Robin Hood and Vincent Cassel. Why was Robin Hood French? I'm not sure. Is Robin Hood a French story? I feel like it's an English story.

Traditionally, it's represented by the English, but I have no idea if it's originally French. Yeah, sure. Because it's Prince John, Sir Hiss, very big in our house right now. Oh, yeah, the Disney version. Sir Hiss is Knox's best friend. Oh, interesting. A borderline lethario stealing money from rich people to give to other people is a very French ass thing to do, though.

So I appreciated the joke, even if I didn't get it when I was five. That's another thing about these movies, especially the first one. It's like way more adult humor than kid humor. The kid humor is confined more to like the Eddie Murphy line readings and the visual gags and all of those sorts of the physical humor. Yeah, yeah. But the actual script itself,

there's like a lot of more adult jokes. There's like a lot of sex jokes in the first movie. And I don't think I really realized any of that until coming back to it as an adult. I don't think most people realize that Vincent Cassel's 2001 to 2002 is extremely goaded. Okay, tell us. He appeared in the film Shrek as Miss via Hood.

And then he appeared in 2002 as Diego in Ice Age, another DreamWorks animation classic that I've never seen. Legendary performance. He's the saber-toothed tiger. He followed that up immediately with Gaspar No's Irreversible. One of the most challenging films ever made. A truly dark journey into the despair

of relationships in this world. So that's cool. Yeah. Good job by him. He's doing it all, you know? Then 2004, he was in Ocean's 12. Yeah, trust me, I knew that that was coming. Francois Toulour.

Mm-hmm. Um, Shrek 2 is slicker, better animated. I thought a little bit less fun. I think it's, I agree. It's good, but it's missing some of the manic, joke a minute, Zucker Abrams style that I like about the first one. I do think it's just broadly dumbed down.

Like I do think that they were thinking about the franchise-ification potential of the franchise and franchise-ification potential of the franchise. And franchise-ification potential of the franchise. That's good stuff by me right there. They were thinking about stuff like, Plus and Boots being marketable. They were thinking about stuff like, how are we setting ourselves up

to have like a million different characters that can broaden this world? And that's fine. I think Shrek 2 is still a phenomenal movie start to finish. I just think that it starts to lean away from what I think is authentically like really entertaining and rewatchable about the first one, which is like just that small set of characters and the relationships between them. Um, but then again, there are people like I was,

I was at a bar last night watching a Knicks game with some friends and one of the people, when I told him that I had to go home to watch Shrek 1 and 2, he was like, Shrek 2 is my Empire Strikes Back. I think it's the greatest sequel in movie history. But that implies that it somehow is like this hinge in the story. Where it's just the same story, but a little more funeral. I was going to ask you, what is the central conflict in Shrek's three and four? What are they working through? Couldn't tell you. I can't remember.

Because it does feel a little bit like... a retread of the... It's what's on the inside that counts. Which, listen, in the early 2000s, was an important message to be giving to young children. Now we don't say that. Now it's about what's outside. Are you beautiful?

Do you have a nice house? No, I didn't. What kind of watch do you have? What is the name of your podcast? These are the things that matter in our society today. I did watch both of them. No, with like, you know, parent 2025 eyes. And then it was like, oh, well, in general, this just seems like

too fixated on appearance, you know? Like if you made it now, it would just be more about like, it, oh, well, in general, this just seems like too fixated on appearance, you know? Like, if you made it now, it would just be more about, like, it doesn't, well, then you couldn't make this story. But it doesn't matter what the people look like. We have other things to worry about. When I, so I did watch 45 Minutes of It with my daughter last night, the first film, and she obviously was infatuated with Fiona, which is very clever designed by them

to actually put a princess in, even though she's not the traditional princess, but still she is, so you could draw on young girls. But she was most interested in the female dragon. Oh, sick. The reveal that the dragon is actually in love with Donkey, and that she's pink. Yeah, great bit.

And she was very scared of the dragon, all the way up until that moment when you get the close up of the dragon looking at Donkey and she's sort of like drawn to him. And then she was like, that's probably the coolest dragon that's ever lived. You know, she was really, really into it. So there's like a series of these like upended expectations. In the first two films, I think they both do a really nice job of that.

So you think that Alice, if pressed on it, would rate this dragon on a list, a power ranking, above or below Smaug? I mean, you can't believe the kind of content we're gonna get out of me and Alice revisiting the Hobbit films with Chris, the three of us, holding hands for nine consecutive hours, watching those films. Director's Cut's probably more like 10 and a half hours.

Um, I think it's gonna be good stuff. The biggest dragon in our house right now is the dragon from the end of Sleeping Beauty, which is Maleficent's transformation. So I always found that to be the most frightening part of all the Disney movies. Shout out Alice, that she's really into it. It is really scary. It's beautiful.

The animation in that sequence is incredible, but yeah, she digs that part. Okay, that's cool. There's a great gag. I can't remember if it's three or four in the Shrek movies where Donkey and the Dragon then start a family and the babies that they have are just donkeys with wings that blow fire.

Just a funny bit. That is funny. I didn't, I was going to show this to Knox and then we had some behavior issues and so I had to parent, but I was telling him about the movie he was going to watch and I was like, well, it's about a green friend named Shrek. And then he has a friend who's a donkey and I don't remember the donkey's name. Turned out it was Donkey. And then they have to go on some adventures.

And he immediately was just like, tell me more about this donkey. So even without having seen the movie, he was like, we will see a movie with a donkey. Mm-hmm. Does the donkey talk? Is he a nice donkey? You know? These are all good questions. It's, it's, but I was, I was like, wow.

There's something in the, in the DNA of the story where it doesn't even, doesn't have to be seen to work. Yeah. This is a Jeffrey Katzenberg joint. And one of the reasons Meyer said he wanted to make this movie was because he wanted to work with Jeffrey Katzenberg, you know, the producer and executive who oversaw the sort of second golden age of Disney

and who launched Dreamworks Animation, one of the three founders of Dreamworks. And the demise of the Democratic Party, but that's okay. He has also done some unfortunate things in recent times around Joe Biden. Nevertheless, the idea that a star would want to work with an executive who's not an animator and not a writer, but has this kind of mocker producer quality. You know, this like, he's like the Irving Thalberg of animated movies from

1987 through to 2015, is really fascinating. And I think that those things that you were just identifying, that there's like some appeal to all of these little choices that triggers in people's minds, is sort of a trademark of Katzenberg's that over and over again, even though he doesn't get credits on these movies in quite the same way, he is seen as sort of like author is too strong a word, but a really, really meaningful driver of what these movies turn out to be. This one might be the most impressive because it's the most original, even though it's based on fairy tales. It doesn't really, you know, it's a book, but as Bob said, it's like a loose adaptation of a book.

It could have gone in any number of different directions. There are many writers on this. Like for example, I know Terry Rossio has a writing credit on this movie and Terry Rossio has written like a number of great films. He was a writer on Aladdin. He was a writer on The Mask of Zorro, speaking of Antonio Banderas. He wrote a bunch of the Pirates of the Caribbean movies. He was like a very dependent upon hand by Disney for many years for writing cracking these stories. But you get the idea that Jeffrey Katzenberg is very comfortable talking to someone like Terry Rossio about what he wants in the movie and what's going to work. This is like something that we know but don't necessarily talk about,

and you and I have a lot of admiration and respect for the creator and the artist. And Jeffrey Katzenberg is not an artist, and yet there is a kind of artistry to him knowing what little kids are going to want in a movie, And Jeffrey Katzenberg is not an artist, and yet there is a kind of artistry to him knowing what little kids are gonna want in a movie, and maybe even what increasingly grown adults are gonna want in a movie like this.

Yes, exactly. Because you can lock them in at age five and then have them for a lifetime, Bobby. Do you have tickets for Shrek 5 yet? Not yet. I will acquire them though. I feel confident that I will be there. Will it be like a thing with a group of, you know, like-minded and like-aged individuals for you? Shrek 5 is not coming out until December 23rd, 2026.

What? Yeah. So it's 18 months away. Wow. So they were just hyping it? I will be officially 30 and a half years old sitting in that movie theater. So I'm crazy for Shrek. Life comes at you fast, big guy. Yeah, it sure does.

It sure does. Will you get a Shrek popcorn bucket? I thought you were gonna ask me if I'll get a Shrek tattoo to memorialize this final appearance here on the big picture. Did you have any Shrek merch as a kid? I don't think so. I mean, again, I know I mentioned,

briefly mentioned the video game. I played the video game a lot. So no merch. What did you have to do? What happened in the video game? It was largely set in the world of the second movie. So far, far away. And you kind of have to just basically do a lot of the things that they do in the sequences,

like the action, one of the action sequences of this movie. So, you know, getting into Fairy Godmother's factory. The prison break sequence, which obviously is really funny timing that we're doing this because it references Mission Impossible with the Mission Impossible theme song, Needle Drop. Things like that, you know, you got to fight the knights, you got to ride Donkey when he turns into a horse, things like that. I mean, like, what's the goal? Like, what's the princess in the castle? Uh, I honestly don't remember.

I think to defeat Fairy Godmother, I guess. Oh, sure. Yeah. Jennifer Saunders, a true legend. But a lot of phenomenal sense memories of playing that on Gamecube. I did not realize that was her until I watched this movie, but it makes sense. And when you look at John Cleese and Julie Andrews and Jennifer Saunders and it's that old thing that, you know, non-animated films do,

or they're also just like, let's just draw in as many British people as possible. Rupert Everett? Which is again, you know, when I saw Wicked and I thought the donkey was Rupert Everett and not Peter Dinklage, I had another moment watching this where I'm like, I don't want to get my hopes up. Is it actually Rupert Everett this time?

And it was. So that was pleasing to me. Would Wicked, part one, have been significantly better where I'm like, I don't want to get my hopes up. Is it actually Rupert Everett this time? And it was. So that was pleasing to me. Would Wicked Part One have been significantly better if it were Rupert Everett doing the goat voice? Oh, he's a goat? It's a goat. Yes. I trust him to... No, because I don't care about the...

What if it were Mike Myers doing the Shrek voice? Honestly, yes. Now we're talking. Now we're talking. Mike Myers should just do the Shrek voice all the time.. Now we're talking. Now we're talking. Mike, why don't you just do the Shrek voice all the time? Wicked is not, like, unrelated to what we're doing here. And there are a lot of Wizard of Oz references in Shrek 2. Um, but...

It's, you know, bringing all the, like, Fantasyland fairy tale things together, but in a slightly different way. I gotta say, I respect Shrek's approach more. He's gonna cry himself to sleep tonight on his huge pillow. You gotta get into So I Married an Axe Murder. You guys, are you guys familiar with the fact that, so, um, when Spielberg came to Rachel Zegler

for, uh, for the remake of West Side Story, she was in a high school production of Shrek the Musical, which is an adaptation of Shrek for the stage. And she told Spielberg, I will do West Side Story, but I would like to finish it out with my high school stage troupe. And he was like, yes, you can do that. So they delayed the start of filming for West Side Story

because Spielberg closed the loop on Loving Shrek. Have you ever seen any clips from Shrek the musical on stage? It was on Broadway. No. Out of control, man. I mean, amazing. You didn't go? Oh, no.

No, I didn't go. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. What are they dancing to? I mean, this is just deeply upsetting. The guy's outfit who's dressed in Shrek is the latex and the makeup. This guy got in the chair every night and put on all this makeup to be Shrek for 14 months. I guess 12 months it ran, 2008 to January 2010.

He's like Colin Farrell making the Penguin, you know? We're going to give him an Oscar just because. But every night, six nights a week. And then he's like break dancing. That's just really, that's not what you want. Who did Rachel Zegler play in Shrek? I think Fiona. Well, it's not really a great part Who did Rachel Zegler play in Shrek? I'm not sure. I think Fiona. Well, it's not really a great part, you know?

So maybe she was Donkey. I think she could be good at that. She was a little, she's a bit wee for Shrek. Well, you never know. We could bulk Rachel Zegler up. You know, the suit. Blind casting crew. Get her on some Girl Creatine.

Shrek the musical. I didn't know that existed. Now you do. Do you think Rachel Ziegler would be a more surefire thing at the box office if she took girl creatine? I think if she were in Shrek 5, no problem, you know? Maybe she is. Oh, that's true. But this seems bulletproof. Who's in the cast of Shrek 5 as we get down

to the end of this conversation? Cameron Diaz back? I mean, they have to have all of the people. Yeah, I'm wondering who the new voices are. Maybe they're not sharing that with us. Well, you know, Chris Melodandri, who runs Illumination, took this over. So this is now kind of, I don't know if it's officially under the Illumination banner,

but he is the one who is managing it. But so Minion's energy like coming full. Guys, I have some huge news for you about the cast of Shrek 5. There are four people who are confirmed on IMDB. Okay, tell us, tell us. The first three people are Cameron Diaz, Mike Myers, and Eddie Murphy. Okay.

Of course. Number four. As you suspected. Number four is a little movie star named Zendaya. Stop it. I swear to God. They announced this in CinemaCon. Do you know who she plays?

Their daughter? Oh my God. Fiona and Shrek's daughter. Good for her. Good for everyone. She is a legend. So is she an ogre? Or is she a human or does she have the same affliction that Fiona has to deal with? Like what? But I think that Fiona has gotten rid of the affliction. I think that she is just an ogre,

her fullest form with her true love, Shrek. Did they explain how she had, like, ogre qualities, even though she was born of... A spell. Oh, a spell was cast on her. They went full spell? They were like, we're going permanent spell? Well, the spell was, until you have your true love's kiss, you won't be your real form.

And then Shrek is her true love. So they kiss. And then her real form is Shrek-ness, you know? So they can be together. But that's what love does. But just like biologically, can two humans give birth to an ogre? Like have we explored this on Science Corner or elsewhere? But they're not humans. They're two ogres.

But then they were also under a spell? I'm talking about her parents. No, like Julie Andrews and John Cleese. Oh, oh, oh. Like her parents were humans. So they just gave birth to a true-spirited ogre? Yeah, I believe that we want to really get into the biology of it. No, they gave birth to a human and then the spell was cast on her to turn her into an ogre at night.

Because the ogre is her true self. But her father was not just a normal human. You remember, Fairy Godmother alludes to the fact that she did a favor for him, and at the end of the film, he's turned back into a frog. A frog, yes. Gentile coming through with the lore. It's a good point, but does a human and a frog making,

having sex create an ogre's true spirit? We don't know the genetic details of this world, you know? We don't know whether they have germs. This is, if you don't get vaccinated, you fuck a frog and then you give birth to an ogre. Like this, these movies are dangerous. But ogres are good. Are they though? They're eating rats?

In the Shrek universe? They're actually quite grouchy. This movie is about accepting ogres. Listen, pot and kettle on that one. No, this is my favorite moment of watching this with Alice. I was, we're like 15 minutes into it, and... Ha! God, she's the best.

Donkey has arrived, and he's in Shrek's house. And I was like, Alice, do you understand what's happening in the movie right now? And she's like, yeah in Shrek's house. And I was like, Alice, do you understand what's happening in the movie right now? And she's like, yeah, Shrek needs space. Donkey won't give him space. This is... I was like, yes, that's exactly right, sweetheart. By the way, I need some space has come on heavy.

Montessori really, really, really coming through. Oh my goodness. In the space. Shrek needs space. Ogres are like onions. Ogres are not like cake. It's really great. I love that line. I think that's so funny. I was going to say beautiful pair of films. I don't know if I actually believe that. I think there's something a little bit rickety and weird about these movies, but I like them. I think that they are useful cultural artifacts

and they did make me laugh. So that's fine. What would you compare them to culturally? Is this like the work of Jackson Pollock? I mean, what is other sort of like, you know. Psy Twombly. Hey, yeah, no garbage version of a form, of an art form,

that then helps you, reflects the moment that it came from. Cause this, I mean, 2001, weird ass year, in every single way, and a real cultural turning point. So this being the lasting cultural artifact makes a lot of sense. Yeah, I think it's, this is gonna seem like a strange comp, but I think it's correct. The first season of The White Lotus, and like the aftermath of, you know, the pandemic and, uh,

DEI and, you know, like all of the kind of panic culturally around that time and a writer just having like just the right voice to kind of excite people and annoy them by what they've done. Like, this movie weirdly unlocks an idea about fairy tale and the vision of self in a pre-Instagram world. You know, it's kind of impression, I think. Don't you think?

I think that the message, the underlying message of the movie being, obviously it is couched in the aesthetic view of yourself and your self-confidence, but I think the underlying message being, find a way to be the most authentic version of yourself and find someone who wants to be the most authentic version of themselves, is actually a really nice message. And I think holds the movies together through all of their, you know, all of their out of the side of their mouth jokes, all of that sort of like joke, joke, joke, joke, joke, all of that quickness. It's not actually irony poisoned,

like most animated movies and most superhero style kid entertainment is these days. It's pretty sincere based on the scale that we have and the rubric that we have now for our childhood entertainment. And I think that that is, I think that's nice. I think that's why I'd endorse. It's a beautiful sentiment.

Before we go, Bob, what Bob highlights did you want to circle since he's given so much to this show over the years? Man, I mean, I really, I think about long drink every single time. Every single time I have some protein, I think of Bob. Every single time I watch a baseball game, I think of Bob. I think you guys have really brought me back to the sport of my youth. That's nice to hear.

That isn't that nice. Baseball's so fucking back. Baseball's big time back. It's so back and it's so great. And let's see. I guess I'll think of you when I watch Miyazaki, which is increasing. Porco Rosso, you know, is something that you both gave to my life,

whether I wanted it or not. I don't know. What do you got? I think the Miyazaki episode was one of my favorite episodes to do because for the same reason that you guys mentioned in the Spirited Away 25 for 25, that it could be me, you, Charles, and Andy all having something tying us together. For the generations of the new masculinity coming together to talk about Spirited Away.

And me and Taki is really nice. Amanda, our biggest win was Top Gun Mev. We held out forever and always. That's true. We doubled down. Oh, you know what? And then when we saw... Dead Reckoning together. And in that beautiful theater,

and when Tom Cruise does the motorcycle off the thing, and I just basically held your hand like Helmut and Louise. That was really nice. I'll always think of that. And think of you. You're like, that's the thing from the trailer. They're doing it! It was very fun. I'll always think of when Bob and I saw the beekeeper together and I was vibrating at a high intensity

and I got home and immediately I saw that Bob smashed the one star button on Letterboxd and he absolutely broke my heart. Two stars, two stars. Was it two stars? I thought it was one star. I think so. I remember being like, come on, man, you betrayed me. Bob is- I had fun.

It was very fun and also politically insightful. Bob is my I had fun. It was very fun. And also politically insightful. Uh, Bob is my baseball brother for life. I think we will probably be texting about the Mets until we die. Um, you are like just a tremendously important part of the history of the show. And you got us out of a lot of pickles over the years. You helped me solve and troubleshoot a lot of problems. Dealing with extremely famous people and talking to them is complicated business. You acquitted yourself wonderfully every time. I could always trust you in the room or over Zoom with people. Also, the pandemic was really crazy.

You held this together. It was really hard for us to make the show. And the show kind of in the aftermath of that Deakins thing obviously transformed pretty significantly during the pandemic. We've heard that from a lot of people over the years. And you helped carry us through that. So we are forever grateful to you and we wish you greatness in the future. We will miss you. Yeah.

We are sad, but happy for you. Yes, and come back for Shrek 5 pod. Book it, 18 months from now. That is all really nice. Thank you guys. I really do appreciate it. It has been an utter delight. Like my time at The Ringer has been more than I could have ever bargained for when I first started here, anxious during my McHugh interview. It has

been so fun like to get to be able to watch movies for a job is such a treat, such a pleasure. You know, Sean, you say this all of the time, but like, a lot of us here may never work on another show that's like this ever again, where it's like, we get to hang out with a bunch of people that we like talking about things that we like most of the time when we're not having existential crises about the box office. One of us here can relate to that more than anyone else.

Who are you referring to? Was that you doing that? I do, I do have existential crises about the box. I care a lot about these corporations as you know. You know, to the big picture listeners, like you all are so delightful. It doesn't always have to be like this when you have a big audience. Of course, there are people who are complaining

about this and that, but when I meet people, you know, at movies or whatever, everyone is so kind and supportive of what we've done. And you know, I don't take that lightly. It's always been, you know, something that's important to me to work really hard and try to make the best version of the show that is possible.

You guys work incredibly hard to make this show for listeners. And so I always felt like I needed to try to reach that level as well and contribute as much as possible. So, yeah, it's surreal that it's been this long and that it's ending, that when I first started working with you guys, I was 22. It's like actually very upsetting for me to think back

on the 22 year old version of myself, like trying to represent myself as well as possible. You know, even though I won't be producing the show, I won't be working at the Ringer, you can all rest assured knowing that I will see you at the movies. Nice, I love it. Well, Bobby, thank you for everything again.

Thanks to our producer, Jack Sanders, for his work on this episode. What are we doing next week? Oh, God, I have no idea. Let's see. Hold on. Wait for it. Oh, movie draft. Chaos Central. So we are doing the 2000 movie draft. And you're going to do the order. Technically, Bob, that will be Bob's final appearance.

Okay. With the Top Gun hat? I will do the order with the Top Gun one final time. And then we'll have to find a way to get Jack Sanders a Top Gun hat. Okay. I tried to get one for Knox one year, but... That's what I said. We'll talk about licensing at a later date, offline.

The movie draft we're doing is 2000, That's what I said. We'll talk about licensing at a later date offline. The movie draft we're doing is 2000. I don't mind saying that we're bringing back the crew from the 1999 movie draft. This should be intense, chaotic. I expect full blood lust from Rob Mahoney coming for your neck. I hope people enjoy it. We'll see you then.