The Big Picture - The Snubs and Surprises of the Golden Globe Noms, ‘The Whale,’ and the Brendan Fraser Hall of Fame

Episode Date: December 12, 2022

Zach Baron joins Sean and Amanda for an action-packed episode that hits on the Golden Globe nominations; Will Smith’s new movie, ‘Emancipation’; and the new Brendan Fraser film, ‘The Whale.’ Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guest: Zach Baron Producer: Bobby Wagner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey everyone, it's Ariel Helwani. And I'm Chuck Mendenhall. And I'm PT Carol, and together we are 3PAC. Join us on the brand new Spotify Live app immediately after all of the biggest fights in combat sports. And also during the weigh-ins, because that's when the real drama happens. So what are you waiting for? Follow the Ringer MMA show right now on our exclusive Spotify podcast feed. And come join the best community in MMA. Peace! We're outta here. on our exclusive Spotify podcast feed. And come join the best community in MMA. Peace.

We're out of here. Get groceries delivered across the GTA from Real Canadian Superstore with PC Express. Shop online for super prices and super savings. Try it today and get up to $75 in PC Optimum Points. Visit superstore.ca to get started. That's right. You are also the life partner and husband of Amanda Dobbins. Many people are saying. You're also one of my oldest friends and quite a film fan. And you are well qualified to be here today because we're talking about a lot of stuff on the big picture.

We're talking about the Golden Globe nominations. We're talking about Brendan Fraser. We're talking about The Whale. We're talking about the film Emancipation. The attempted Will Smith comeback. So much stuff is going on. Let's talk about Zach Barron first. Hi, Zach. What's up?

I'm just happy to be here What is this episode? Like 4,000? 5,000? Yeah, you want to get it out now? Yeah, I know you guys have been very busy I understand you both had kids recently Congratulations

It's hard to get the schedules matched up I know you get very busy at that time Are you wounded that it took this many episodes to be invited to the show? I mean, yeah, absolutely. Well, there was originally a brokered pact. I don't remember who brokered it. Maybe Kofi Annan. That if you were ever to appear, my wife Eileen would also have to appear on the show.

And Eileen will never appear on the show, I feel safe to say, because she has no interest in doing so. So here you are. Well, I think I brokered that pact. Okay. Yeah. And then you broke it. Eileen would be the best guest on this podcast. That's what I was like.

It was a hunger strike. I was withholding my takes until Eileen could be here. When it's totally done, don't you think that we can just have Eileen on, give her two cocktails, and just let it rip? Eileen, you know, she has a lot of very strong takes that I feel perhaps shouldn't be shared. But I don't want to speak for her. And if she wants to speak for herself,

she's always invited. You're here though. I'm here. Is this everything you imagined? You guys have some great rocks outside the studio. I might take one home as a souvenir. Great scene setting. These are the details you're known for. And your is one of the drive the parking lot do you think

your listeners do you want to talk about our commute at all yeah no it was uh we we drove separately what well because i have another podcast yeah and he has to go back okay you know we had a hard time getting out of the house someone refused his breakfast you know very hungry yeah i mean i have two actually we didn't make it for ourselves just for our Oh, someone refused his breakfast. You know, there's... Zach refused breakfast. Very hungry right now. Yeah, I mean, I have too. Actually, we didn't make it for ourselves, just for our ungrateful son. Yeah, we're here.

How does it feel to be recording with your partner? I'm asking both of you, but I really want to know from Zach. Are you referring to yourself as my partner? Well, you and I are partners. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's very complicated. Which partner are we talking? Bobby? Feels great to be here with Bobby.

Why don't we talk about movies and everything going on in the world? Because this is really quite a loaded conversation. And it's kind of perfect that Zach is here because on the one hand, there's like a classic chaotic me and you yelling at each other about stuff that doesn't matter part of this episode. And then there's a slightly more considered and complicated aspect to some of the conversation around both Will Smith and Brendan Fraser. They're both related to the Golden Globes as well, because one of them was recognized and one of them is not. So a little context for the Globes this year. You may or may not recall last year, the Globes did not air on television. In fact, after a almost 18 month period of tumult, scandal and controversy, the Hollywood Foreign Press Association endured after the LA Times learned that there were no black members of the HFPA and when they learned that there were a series of potential misconducts, payola, even sexual impropriety potentially.

The show went into this state of utter disrepair and scandal, and it's attempting to make a comeback. It is actually happening on Tuesday, January 10th of 2023. It was announced last week. Gerard Carmichael will be hosting the show, and this show is trying to rebuild its brand, and it announced nominations today. Just a gut check from both of you. You think the Globes is going to successfully come back? Not to the extent that it did. I mean, you said the most key element, in my opinion, which is that it's airing on a Tuesday night on NBC. Look, there's Sunday Night Football.

I know, I know, which we watch every night, every Sunday night in our home. Obviously, awards show ratings are down, as Sean notes and despairs over every single time there's an awards show, but they are less and less central. And I just think airing on a Tuesday night on NBC with a bunch of movies that are sort of popular or like the awards consensus, but that no one has really seen or heard of like good luck. No, I don't. So the HFPA is certainly trying. I mean, there have been so many interviews and the trades, they're like on there. We've changed Goodwill Tour.

I don't know how true that is. And I don't know how much anyone cares, which is really sort of the latter issue. But no, I mean, I think you, Sean, and I will watch it and be mad, but that's sort of the limit, I think, of where it will go. I don't know. Yeah, I think the relevance of the show used to be tied into the fact that the organization was kind of a joke and that the show, in some ways, while often entertaining, was not really taken seriously. It was, however, obviously a bellwether in some respects, just in terms of exposing a wider audience to a number of films that maybe they were not as familiar with. It really was the strong kickoff of the Oscar season. It's attempting to become that again.

Zach, you've reported on the HFPA a bit, in part because of the work that you've done around Brendan Fraser and his career. Any sense of like, are the Globes ever going to matter again? When you were reporting, did you feel like this is curtains for this crew? I think I have the opposite take of you guys, which is that the globes are like stubbornly relevant in a way that surprises me year after year. And the LA Times investigation that took them off the air for a year

was kind of far from the first to be like, there's some shady stuff going on here. They're kind of famous for it. They're well known for it. And then, you know, I did a story in 2018 where Brendan Fraser alleged sexual impropriety about a former president of the organization. The award show went on completely as normal that year and the following year. And I wasn't like the first to report something like that either.

So I'm not, I'm like, I'm, I'm curious what you guys think about why this show indoors, because I think every few years for a long time now, it's been like, Hey, just in case you guys forgot this award show is kind of a joke.

Yeah. And then there it is again in the bright lights on NBC. Hey, just in case you guys forgot, this award show is kind of a joke. Yeah. And then there it is again in the bright lights on NBC the next year. And everybody's like taking it very seriously for Oscar prognostication and stuff like that. And my question to you guys, I'm genuinely very curious why you think it has such a persistence, especially when it did finally go off the air and Hollywood as a whole, studios, publicity firms had an opportunity to be like,

maybe we'll do something else. And in fact, I remember, I think you guys even talked about it, like, oh, maybe it's the, what was the Critics Awards? Critics Choice Awards. Critics Choice Awards. Maybe that can fill the place in the award schedule or, you know, there's all these great you know Europe film critics give awards

LA film critics give awards there was so many other things and it was like oh maybe something can take this place and here they are right back in the rotation there's probably a variety of answers I think branding is the most important this is a long long long running

show that has an identification certainly amongst people of our generation and older. I don't know if young folks give a shit anymore, but what do you think? Yeah, it's grandfathered in. And I think, Zach, everything that you said is true about it. It is useful to the publicists and studios as an awards launch. And to the extent there is an awareness of these projects, it is because of things like the Golden Globe. So it's established and has market share within that awards show and like awards circuit universe.

And it's very hard to launch a new, you know, critic's choice or people's choice or whatever. Like it just, that doesn't really work anymore. But I think like the larger market share of awards shows and awards movies and movies and theaters and all of that stuff, it's just shrinking. And so do I think that it will matter in terms of the Oscar race? I actually do. I do too. Do I think that it will, quote, matter in terms of the Oscar race? I actually do. I do, too. Do I think that the world at large cares about the Oscars race? No, I do not, which is a bummer.

So, you know, we're both right, to borrow a phrase from our marriage. I just think it's interesting. You know, I think it was today that Times is a piece, Brooks Barnes and Kelly and kelly bush who runs idpr is in there basically saying like i'm glad this is back they've done they've done important work you know she and kelly bush it should be said was one of the leading voices in terms of trying to dismantle the show and the hfpa correct and and i i believe you said rep brendan frazier and so has a sort of personal stake in this in a lot of ways. And I thought that was interesting. And, you know, if you talk to people at studios and publicity firms, they complain bitterly about this show.

I mean, I'm just saying that neutrally. I'm not saying they're right or wrong. But, you know, they say, hey, they're weird about our talent, and they demand a lot. And then they make these very, very arbitrary decisions about in terms of what they nominate and what wins. And it's striking to me where it's like, oh, you got your wish. Your clients don't have to do this anymore.

You don't have to talk to these people. And then here we are right back, like nothing happened. Well, one of the reasons that I think that we're right back is because Brooke Barnes wrote another piece over the weekend about the struggles of prestige films, of awards films, of the fact that many of the films that we've talked about on this show over the last three months just haven't done very much business. Part of the challenge there is that those films are in theaters for shorter windows of time than they used to be, which is also something that we've been talking about. Theoretically, the announcement of the nominations, which we can dig into right now, tends to give these movies a boost. And when these movies are being talked about on NBC in prime time,

more people will ostensibly seek them out. That doesn't really feel like it's necessarily going to happen in the same way as last year or the year before that or the year before that. But let's dig in because, you know, the Golden Globes historically makes a lot of blunders. I wouldn't say there were a ton of blunders this year. This is incredibly safe. Very safe. Playing incredible, like almost boring.

Certainly not the enthusiasm for celebrity that has defined years past. That was the polite way of saying it. They love famous people with their show. Yeah. And with good reason to an extent, because the other thing we didn't really talk about is that this show was really fun, you know, and they would get like good comedian hosts and let them have a little more fun. I mean, your taste for Ricky Gervais versus Tina Fey and Amy Poehler may vary, but all of the stars were sitting at round tables. There were lots of jokes about the booze that was flowing.

It was supposed to be festive. And I do think there was audience awareness of that. So they were trying to juice the party atmosphere. Respectfully, this is not a party atmosphere lineup. No, I mean, in some respects it is, in some respects it isn't. I mean, we can talk about what's missing. Zach, I don't, I mean, I, I know that you listen to the show and I know that you see a lot of films in part because of your work and because you love movies, but like were you not in this chair today? Would you have woken up and spent any time looking at

the nominations? Well, as you said, I have reported on this organization before. Um, and I remember when I was doing reporting, I was sort of looking up the membership, which is sort of a closely held secret and sort of actually incredibly easy to find. And I had to say this respectfully. It's not going to sound respectful. These were people who were like tweeting at airlines.

Like I'd be like, oh, let me find their body of work in their Twitter account. And it was like, thanks. Okay, 13 minutes in is when it starts. Thanks to American Air for this great upgrade. And or being like American, how dare you not upgrade me? I've been a very loyal customer for a very long time. So once you kind of see that, it's a little bit hard to look at these nominations and feel like they mean anything except in the way that

you guys talk about them as like, oh, for the precursor of the Oscars, there's some films here didn't get nominated. I'm very aware of like, okay, Armageddon time, you're probably not getting nominated for anything. It is not represented here in the nominations today in any way. Right. And then conversely, you see okay you know whether it be tar or uh some of these other movies you say okay you're very much in the game so as like precursor stuff as like an exercise of taste i mean you can complain about the academy all you want and best picture winners and they can be ridiculous but it's like like Chloe Zhao votes on that. Steven Spielberg votes on that. The people who are voting on this, it's not even hard to take their taste seriously.

I'm like, I don't know who they are or what they do. Yeah, I mean, it's a coterie of international journalists, and the membership has changed somewhat dramatically over the course of the last 24 months, in part because of some of the revelations that were made. But the way you're describing it is accurate. I used to describe the academy as a secret cabal when it was like 3,500 mostly white guys older than 60. It's still a lot of white guys older than 60, but there's now like 10,000 members in the academy. It's a big group of people. This is still a very, very small voting body. And yet I agree with you, Amanda. There's a kind of a consensus-y quality to a lot of the picks. So let's talk about them. Let's start with Best Motion Picture Drama.

Yeah. Number one. Avatar, The Way of Water. Big Jim. Seeing it tonight. Yeah. Can't fucking wait. Three hours and eight minutes?

Movie event of the year. Three hours and ten minutes? Yeah. God bless. It should be six hours. You going to Burbank or are you going to Center City? Burbank. Okay, great.

Will you save me a seat? Yeah. Actually, we should talk about Avatar a little bit later too because you have some insights into that. My man, Big Jim. Big Jim Raines. Elvis also nominated here for Best Motion Picture Drama. The Fableman, Steven Spielberg's film. Zach just mentioned Tar and Top Gun Maverick. Wow. You didn't let me do any sort of amp up to Top Gun Maverick being, you know?

Well, I think it's because there is some restraint in this Top Gun Maverick nomination. We can talk about this actor in a minute. If you're going to make Top Gun, I mean, sure, whatever. But this is notable. I know. Well, he sent his Golden Globes back.

What were they going to do? That's what's notable. There was a big question about whether or not Tom Cruise would play ball with the Globes this year because famously when this show was

enduring its scandals, he returned his Golden Globes and... Where are they now? Where do you think? That's a magnificent question. You think he just returned them to the sea? I guess he didn't know where they were. He was like, if I could find them in six houses ago,

I would return them. So just say that I returned them. I hope they're on the aircraft carrier that they shot Maverick on. That's where I want them to be. They were melted down into munitions, actually. I just want them to be. They were melted down into munitions, actually. I just want them in a leftover box from whatever weightlifting system

was ordered for Tom Cruise off the internet, you know, sitting in. Does the HFPA have offices? Yeah. Probably. It's closely held. Zurich? Yeah, I don't know.

All right. Anyway. So I'm thinking West Hollywood. Okay, great. So yeah, they're just on La Cienega, the box of golden gloves. Films that are not represented in this category. Women talking,

which we suspected would be nominated for best picture. The whale, which may or feels like it's on the bubble right now is the best picture nominee. And we'll get into that film very shortly. And she said, feels a little bit like a death knell for she said, but we can debate that.

Fascinating decision to have Elvis nominated in drama instead of in musical or comedy fascinating is that the word that you would use i think it's notable well i think it's an indication of strength you know the last time that this happened to star is born in bohemian rhapsody were slotted here the following year rocket man was slotted in musical or comedy if you push your movie into musical or comedy it's a little bit of a like i'm not sure if we can make the cut here Elvis is very very strong watch out for fucking Elvis because we're gonna wake up one day

and it's gonna have a Best Picture Oscar and we're gonna be like how did we get here America it's gonna be you primarily I'm gonna be saying that and people will be parroting

I had a nice time and then Sean didn't talk to me let's evolve to Best Motion Picture Musical or Comedy here are the nominees My Beloved Babylon

Damon Chazelle back Back in the Game, The Banshees of Inisharen, which is one of the most nominated. I think it's the most nominated film here at the Globes today. Everything Everywhere All at Once, which also did quite well. Glass Onion, A Knives Out Mystery, and Ruben Ostlund's Triangle of Sadness.

Yeah, so that's the one where I, when I woke up and I was thinking about our Best Picture Power Rankings, and I was like, we're sleeping on Triangle of Sadness because of the international component of the Academy. And international audiences are just really there for Triangle of Sadness. Yeah, I neglected to note that The Woman King was also not nominated in Drama as well. So we had The Woman King on our rankings last week.

And now perhaps it has taken a hit. Although Viola Davis was recognized by the Globes, also not nominated in drama as well so we had the woman king on our rankings last week well and now perhaps it has taken a hit although viola davis was recognized by the globes um it's possible triangle of sadness is a much like movie i think it just won best film at the european film awards over the weekend as well and so that train is rolling you see triangle of sadness i have not okay um man that was that just the osc, you know? I already said this line, but Aslan was killing it for like eight years. And then the first movie came along that I didn't like. And everybody's like, this should be nominated for Best Picture. Let's go to the acting categories.

Zach, any reflections on musical or comedy? Your favorite category at the Golden Globes? Yeah, very important to me. No, I mean, you know, I feel like Last Onion, very, very globesy nomination. Yes. Lingering potentially as the ninth or tenth Best Picture candidate. Right, right. And this is like where the musical or comedy category comes in handy for a film like that.

Very much. Do you think this boosts Babylon at all? Are you getting on the, are you going to ride the Babylon train? I think that seeing Diego Calva, Margot Robbie, Brad Pitt, and Damien Chazelle at the Golden Globes is beneficial to them. Now, there is often a late released film that very few people have seen that the Globes recognizes if it's particularly starry. Yeah. So, and their taste historically, of course, does not always align with the Academy's. Said it before, can't wait to talk about Babylon.

It's very loud and expressive and probably going to irritate some people. historically, of course, does not always align with the academies. I've said it before. Can't wait to talk about Babylon. It's very loud and expressive and probably going to irritate some people. So I'm not super high on its chances, but I think it's a more fun Oscars race if it's in it. And grabs it with

the acting nomination. He does have... All three of those stars were nominated. So that's notable. Right. It's still the Golden Globes. It is.

Well, we'll see. I mean, I wonder if this show, as it conforms and becomes slightly more conservative, if it starts to resemble more what the Academy is. It'll be interesting to see if that shakes out. Best performance by an actress in a motion picture drama. Cate Blanchett for Tar, Olivia Colman, Empire of Light, Viola Davis for The Woman King, Ana de Armas for Blonde, and Michelle Williams for The Fablemans. Any reactions to that? You guys think Ana de Armas can take it all the way? This feels like the globesiest nomination to me. Did you watch that movie? No.

Yeah, not at home. Yeah. No. I like Ana de Armas, and I feel for what she went through in order to make the film Blonde. You mean having to make The Gray Man after that the film blonde and you mean having to make the gray man after that i think also having to make blonde and having to work with andrew dominic

every day i think she enjoyed it she was quite posse about the whole experience sure i mean she knows what to say in front of cameras and also i don't know how else you get through this i i wish her well in jam session parlance and so and and she's very beautiful and i'm sure she'll look great at the golden globes uh thoughts um great nominations really i just think they really outdid themselves in this category i do also i did think for a moment about uh jennifer lopez uh not winning the golden globe during jennifer lopez halftime which was a great documentary that came out this year. She was destroyed. She was absolutely destroyed. And so now seeing Ana de Armas get, you know, recognition, and she obviously hasn't won yet, and I don't think she will win.

But, you know, it's a lot of sliding doors there, if you will. This is another, she said, kind of not promising. Well, you know, again, category fraud in play here where Zoe Kazan was technically running in Best Actress and was not recognized here. And her counterpart, Carrie Mulligan, is nominated in Supporting. But this just feels like Cate Blanchett's to lose,

as does the Oscar at this point to me. I guess Michelle Williams and Viola Davis will compete. But notable that Olivia Coleman is nominated. Empire of Light really tanked at the box office and critically over the weekend. I still have not seen it because it was so DOA. I mean, I will at some point. I will do my job. I love Olivia Coleman, but. I mean, she's very good in the film, but I was not a fan of that film, and I don't think it's going to make too much noise. That was one of the angry Tali Rai texts from you. Yeah, I thought it was quite bad.

Best performance by an actor in a motion picture drama. This is notable. We mentioned that Tom Cruise was snubbed in this category. Here are the nominees. Austin Butler for Elvis, Brendan Fraser for The Whale, Hugh Jackman for The Sun, Bill Nighy for Living,

and Jeremy Pope for The Inspection, which I thought was a nice surprise. But that also means that Will Smith, who stars in this weekend's Emancipation, was not nominated either. And so I think that this effectively ends the comeback tour and the wildly outlandish speculation that he could also be nominated for an Oscar, even though he can't attend the Oscars this year. Thoughts? Sad for Cruise? Don't care?

Zach, you want to talk about Brendan? I mean, that is a notable nomination here. So for context, I don't know how to talk about Brendan? I mean, that is a notable nomination here. So for context, um, in a, I don't know how to talk about this in a story that I did. He said, he said GQ men of the year. We were supposed to GQ men of the year, December issue on sans now we're sitting in a room with a very tense GQ publicist right now. And she's like, Zach, say all the right words, uh, you know, like, and subscribe. Um, he said he said uh when i asked him about this he said he wasn't going to attend the awards um even if he was nominated even if he was nominated and

this was before the nominations uh were came out or i think even were voted on so and i wrote about this a little bit in the story, it posed an interesting problem for the Globes, I think, because they had this actor who is probably a front runner for the Oscar. We'll sort of see how that shakes out, but at least at the moment he is, saying before you even do the nominations that he's not coming.

So like with Cruise, what do you do? And they clearly have chosen to nominate him. And if you've sort of followed the Globes publicity tour that you mentioned, Amanda, the president of Globes was asked about this, I think, in The Hollywood Reporter. And, you know, said, we're making outreach to his camp and we'd like him to see that we've changed. They haven't publicly apologized to him, but they clearly, in 2018 when he made these allegations, they kind of went to war with him.

And this time, I think they're taking a different tact. It will be fascinating to see if he wins because I think there is a case to be made that if he wins, that this is the sort of final stroke in the HFPA attempting to kind of reconcile with its past. Now, I think that that's a kind of slight reconciliation in a lot of ways, but it will indicate that it's like no hard feelings and let's try to become a better organization going forward. me that Austin Butler will win and then we'll just Brendan Fraser will never be nominated again and then we'll just move on from this chapter in history even though Brendan never will be able to. So I could be wrong about that but there is

either way it's cynical and so it's a complicated category this year. And even the sort of attempted reconciliation could be seen as cynical because it sort of is can this be PR for our rehabilitated organization and that's why I think he was always going to get nominated here. Although it really was

striking in 2018 just how much they were like we're not sorry and he's wrong about this and in that respect I think this organization seems to have changed

because even then it would have been very easy for them to sort of be like hey we're not proud of this chapter in our past and we're very sad

that he's upset and we hope he comes back. And that's not what they did then. And it's kind of not what they're doing now, but he is nominated. No Cruz, no Will Smith, but put that aside. We'll talk about Emancipation briefly, I guess. But no Cruz, and yes, to Brendan R Rader seems like this safe, cynical option. It's just kind of like this is aware of what's going on.

We're going to do what people think we should do. We're just going to kind of keep our heads down. And I think you're probably right about Austin Butler. And that's a very Globe-sy type win. I think also that currently I think Colin Farrell is the leader in this race and he's been nominated here in musical or comedy for best male performance. So they almost

don't have to make a real decision in this. You know, it's not... I was going to ask you guys about that. So you guys followed Oscars, right? That seemed like a two-person race at the moment between Colin and Brendan. If Brendan isn't nominated here, will that mean anything? Or excuse me, if he doesn't win here, will that mean anything?

No. I don't think so. Yeah. I don't think. And I think that's part of the reason why the Globes had to nominate Brendan Fraser is because he is at a minimum in that triumvirate of Austin Butler, Brendan Fraser, and Colin Farrell. Those are the three clear leaders in the race right now and a pretty strong race. So I don't think it's real. I don't, I'm not sure

that the acting races will have a huge impact on the Oscars, but I could be wrong. Let's just read through the actor and actress categories for musical or comedy as well. Diego Calva, as I said,

from Babylon is nominated here. This is a pretty big deal. He's a widely unknown actor. Daniel Craig is nominated for his performance in Glass Onion. I actually think Daniel Craig's the best thing about Glass Onion, so I'm just happy to see this. Adam Driver was nominated for White Noise, which is awesome.

Sure. Kind of shocking because... No, it's not. You want Kylo Ren at your awards ceremony. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay. Is Adam Driver famous to you, Zach?

Yeah, very much so but he's us he doesn't really care no no no it's not it's not true he is we've seen him at brunch

you know okay meaning you've had brunch with Kylo Ren no no no but he's like one of those he was one of those like Brooklyn people

who was like around you're a cosmopolitan elite you know what I mean many people many people will never have the opportunity to see Adam Driver at lunch.

Shall I continue with the nominations or would you guys like to dig deeper into your brunch lifestyle? Who else have you seen at lunch, Amanda? Not that many people.

Okay. Not recently. I mean, there was a pandemic. Anyway, you. Continued. Go ahead. Colin Farrell was nominated for The Banshees of Indischarion

as was Ralph Fiennes for The Menu, one of two nominations for The Menu, which I think is potentially interesting because that's one of the few movies that's come out in the last three months that actually made a little bit of money. Right. And then actress for musical or comedy, Leslie Manville for Mrs. Harris Goes to Paris. I have actually seen 25 minutes of this. Well, thanks for your service. Margot Robbie was nominated for Babylonlon anya taylor joy from the

aforementioned the menu emma thompson for good luck to you leo grand and michelle yo for everything everywhere all at once missing from this list julia roberts ticket to paradise your loss she will still be there because she was nominated for gaslight the television program wow which was executive produced by our friend Sam Esmail. What's with the Leslie Manville one? Listen, I am a mark for those types of movies, and I was saving Mrs. Harris Goes to Paris for number one, to be on Peacock instead of costing $20.

And two, because just as a treat, you know, like a pick-me-up. And it's adapted from one of those books about, you know, with like a little illustration of Paris, something on the... If you are a bookstore habitué, you know exactly what those are. And I thought it would be perfect for me, and it was way too treacly even for me. I wasn't crazy about it. I watched it a few weeks ago. It's like a filling out the slots kind of nomination, in my opinion.

And if we're talking about where's Julia Roberts for Tickets to Paradise, I think that's a pretty good sign that this is a slim category. Sure. Yeah. And if you want to galaxy brain it, you can basically be like, this film was Focus Features, slightly prestigious. Leslie Manville, great, great, great. Previously nominated for Phantom Thread. Sure, yeah. slightly prestigious Leslie Manville great great great previously nominated

for Phantom Thread so yeah if you're just trying to like fill in a little gravitas in your award show not the worst nomination let's do the supporting

categories really quickly here for actor Brendan Gleeson for the Benches of Innocent and Barry Keoghan for the Benches of Innocent Brad Pitt for Babylon

Kiwi Kwan for Everything Everywhere All At Once and Eddie Redmayne for The Good Nurse which I find to be an abominable domination. For Best Actress in a Supporting Role, Angela Bassett for Black Panther Wakanda Forever, who I think has strongly emerged as the frontrunner in that race.

Carrie Condon for The Banshees of Inna Sharon. Jamie Lee Curtis for Everything Everywhere All at Once. Dolly DeLeon for Triangle of Sadness, which I think you tipped us on when we talked about that film a few months ago. And Carrie Mulligan for She she said as i mentioned a bunch of potential snubs here i think the one film that's in a little bit of trouble with these nominations is women talking um no acting nominations for that film it's possible that the actors canceled themselves out i think there was an expectation that either claire foy or jesse buckley or claire foy and jesse buckley would be nominated. Neither was Stephanie Sue from Everything or Everywhere All at Once was not

nominated. Favored Jamie Lee Curtis in this race. I think that's how it'll go going forward. No Hong Chao for The Whale. No Kiki Palmer for Nope. No Janelle Monae for Glass Onion, who has actually won a couple of Critics Awards recently and I feel like is an interesting Dark Horse contender for the Oscar because she has a slightly more complicated performance than what you think it's going to be. Yeah. But don't you think that's just a little bit lost in the timing, awards campaign, marketing, theater? They just don't have her out there yet. I'm circling that one for when people start seeing that movie because there's something interesting there. Any other thoughts on the supporting categories? I mean, Kiwi Kwan seems sort of the

solidifying favorite, which is great. I think so. I think Brendan Gleeson is a little stronger than we'd think, but Barry being there means that they might cancel each other out. This is also Banshee's heavy, which again, this is an international group of voters, which so is the Academy, but it's more weighted. I think Banshee is going to do very well at both of these award shows. It's one of the very few films this year that very few people are split on. It's not super controversial. Most people like it.

So that's always notable. Best Director. Yeah. Big Jim. James Cameron. Avatar, The Way of Water. I wonder if Big Jim's win is coming this year. It certainly feels like it's possible.

For director. For director. For director. Yeah. Daniel Kwan and Daniel Scheiner for Everything Everywhere All at Once. Baz Luhrmann for Elvis, I guess. Martin McDonough

for The Banches of Innocent Sharon and Steven Spielberg for The Fableman. Some notable snubs here, particularly Todd Field. Tar, I feel wounded by that. No Sarah Polly, Women Talking.

No Gina Prince-Bythewood for The Woman King. No women nominated in, women talking. No Gina Prince, by the way, for the woman king. No women nominated in this category, which is historically not recognizing women. the HFPA is, quote,

improved, but across the board, I would not say that this is, whether you're talking about women nominated or black actors, black actors of color,

it's not, I mean, okay, all right. I think I might have failed to mention that Daniel Deadweiler was also not recognized

in Best Actress, who is considered pretty tightly in the top five in that category for the Academy race. So yeah, I mean, we'll see whether or not the HFPA has changed. I kind of don't care. The woman king, women talking, and she said, being the ones that were left out. Do we notice any themes?

Anyway. Yeah, no, I think you're right. And then, you you know i don't think we need to talk about every single category here i think it's on the one hand it feels like a refurbished hfpa on the other hand old habits die hard and that's true in all voting bodies and especially this one we'll cover the show we're going to be there the night that it happens i not because i have necessarily an enthusiasm for this program but uh what else are we going to do on a Tuesday, right? So we're going to cover it. I mean, be with our children.

Well, they'll be asleep. Actually, that's not true. No, they won't. It's going to be at 5 p.m. Yeah, it's the worst time and it's going to be really dark out and we can't take them outside. Zach, you excited? Well, let me ask you guys another question about this. So about the Brendan thing, he's boycotting, he said. I think there was a moment when he told me this when I was writing about it. I was like, oh, it's interesting.

I wonder what the other actors and actresses will do. I wonder what the directors will do. I wonder if there will be a response by other nominees. If this guy is saying, hey, I had a really hard time with this organization and therefore I'm not coming. Do you guys anticipate anybody else following suit? I don't. I don't either. Which is kind of a shame.

It makes me feel icky. What are the reasons for that, do you think? I don't think they will follow suit because of the press tour that the HFPA has been doing the past couple of weeks. And they have been getting features in the trades. As you mentioned, Kelly Bushnovak, the publicists are giving public statements, being like, we are pleased to see the strides that the HFP are making, blah, blah, blah, blah. And these actors want awards and the studios need the publicity. So I don't think that there is anyone in the...

And I think the good, like the apology tour, except no apology to Brendan Fraser, that the HFPA has been doing has been enough cover that it's not a bad look for them to go I think last year it you they had not done anything and it was like you can't go and I I don't know I I think it's a fallen line town you know I just um this is a this is a show and most award shows, as you know, Zach, as you know, Amanda, are effectively operated by publicists and award strategists and access to celebrity and creators is the currency of these shows. The reason that this show was torn asunder previously was because all of those people decided that it was no longer in favor. They have since made some attempts to rehabilitate and everyone needs loud and noisy events to

promote their product. And everyone has decided that I guess this is okay enough with a few, you know, particular and notable exceptions this year in Brendan Fraser and a handful of other people. I think if one, let's say, for example, Steven Spielberg said, I am not satisfied with the rehabilitation that the HFPA has suggested they've made, and I will not be attending the show. I think a lot of people would follow in line, but he didn't do that. And it's his right to not do that. I'm not suggesting he even should. Candidly, at this point, I don't care. But if he had done that, it might have been different.

You know, Brendan Fraser is in the midst of a comeback story, but he was a fallen movie idol. You know, that's the narrative that is built around him that you helped, you know, identify and empathize with. And it needs to be someone who is slightly more powerful, whether it was going to be someone who works at IDPR or someone like Steven Spielberg. Without that, I just think people are going to show up on the show. You know, Brad Pitt will probably be there.

Julie Roberts will probably be there. That would be my guess. Yeah, I know. You're making your, like, slightly disappointed face. I don't just… No, I don't really have a dog in the fight. I think it's very interesting what does and doesn't pull the levers. And I think Sean's breakdown was like absolutely correct where it's like,

okay, you basically need someone more powerful, you know? Um, but it is very interesting where you're going to have a night full of probably like, Hey, we've really done a lot of work.

And then there's going to be this sort of glaring thing and no one will mention it or acknowledge it. I do. I, you're right. I do find that a little sad. Yeah, it is.

I mean, it is a little bit icky and I, I'm curious if austin butler wins whether he acknowledges anything i'm gonna go ahead and say he will not he will not i don't think he yeah um you know does austin butler like know who brennan fraser is because he's like 24 years old um but you know i mean i think he does i think austin butler is an interesting example of a person who is attempting to one he, he's obviously forging a different story than some of the people that are nominated in that category.

But he's like, I'm trying to become Tom Cruise. You know, he's, so he has to, someone like that is just, he's going to play the game full stop, would be my guess. Right. You know, I had planned to spend a little bit of time on Emancipation,

and it almost feels like Emancipation never happened. Yeah. That's, this is a new film. It's now available on Apple TV+, directed by Antoine Foucault and starring Will Smith. This is the first Will Smith project after he slapped Chris Rock

at the Academy Awards earlier this year. That was still this year, 2022. Remarkable enough. And that was probably the signature event in entertainment in 2022. And here we are,

just nine, 10 months later, Will Smith's got a movie that is pitched as an Oscar contender. And it feels like that's no longer the case. It's certainly quite a powerful story. It's about a man named Peter, who is a slave who flees a plantation in Louisiana after he's whipped within an inch of his life. It's loosely based on the real life story of Gordon, who was a former slave and the photographs of his bare back, which showed those whippings that the character endures. And then when that photo was published worldwide, it, you know, sort of sparked support for the abolitionist movement in part because it showed the absolute depravity and cruelty of slavery to Americans who

maybe were not aware or chose to not look at those images. It's an interesting film here because Antoine Fuqua, I think maybe in our associations might be, oh, Training Day, Denzel Washington's Academy Award win. But then when you look at Antoine Fuqua's CV and you realize this is the director of Olympus Has Fallen and The Equalizer 2. Magnificent Seven. Magnificent Seven.

This is largely an action film director. This is a mainstream Hollywood filmmaker conferring his talents to a quote-unquote prestige project. It is shot by Robert Richardson, the extraordinary cinematographer, and there are strokes

of this film that look amazing, but it just kind of feels like an Antoine Fuqua movie. It's like very visceral. Yeah. It's kind of sludgy in its pacing,

the way I find a lot of Fuqua's movies are, and I thought it was kind of a disappointment. What'd you guys think? Yeah, it's not an accident that like the two highlights of the movie are Will Smith fighting an alligator.

The highlight is, yeah, it's memorable moments. You know what a highlight is not the right word? Yeah, we didn't watch this together, which is another. Memorable moment, great alligator fight. And then also I do think the movie comes alive in sort of the third act when... The battlefield. There's a battlefield,

which, as Sean said, is what Fuqua does really well. That sequence is awesome. And that's awesome, and it's galvanizing. I also, I think, Will Smith started this movie. Are we sure that this is what Will Smith does well?

Suffer, and also not interact with other human beings. Right. Huge chunk of this movie, he's like on his own, running. It's sort of cool to see the ingenuity of what he does. He obviously can sort of suffer nobly. He's a great actor. But I'm kind of, I had the thought more than once watching, where I was like, is this really what we want from Will Smith? Him not talking to other people for 90% of the movie.

I mean, it's not what I want from Will Smith, which has been the theme of this year in general. Just things that I do not want from one of my favorite movie stars. He doesn't speak for like 45 minutes because there is that kind of a, know it's three movies the the first part is a um extremely difficult to watch film about slavery and and and is the part of the movie that builds on that theme of the the the real life inspiration of the photograph and like trying to watch or or not or you know watching and and being witness to just absolutely horrific stuff. And then it turns into like the survival, like Bear Gryllis type situation. I mean, he really does underwater battle an alligator.

And that's sort of like, that's like 45 minutes in. You go pretty quickly from gruesome, you know, horrific, gruesome acts to like Will Smith's battling an alligator and winning. It becomes like a hunt and chase movie. Ben Foster plays the kind of hunter in pursuit of Will Smith's character, among others. And then it is the battlefield, you know, war epic. So it's a lot for your tonally

and for your head to kind of wrap around. And then Will Smith gets one speech at the end. And that's it. He doesn't speak. He doesn't emote. And I understand that actors want to play different types of roles. But I agree that it's not my favorite use of this individual. Well, it's obviously the film that he chose to do after King Richard.

Obviously, before those films, he was in pursuit of a kind of recognition in his career that he was not previously able to achieve. It feels like putting a hat on a hat to make Emancipation after King Richard

because they are two different strains of a similar awards-worthy quote-unquote performance. This is his version of The Revenant, right? Like, shortly after his version of i don't know wolf of wall street if we're going to follow the dicaprio model where it's like one is very um emotive and expressive and sort of larger than life and then the other is very internal and very physical and about endurance and uh it just doesn't work it's like it's a real two and a half star movie that i think

was presented to me as something meaningful and And the story, of course, is very meaningful. But the actual film itself didn't really work for me. The one thing that I think is unusual about it is it feels like the prestige version of Michael Bay's Ambulance to me because it's just like 30% drone shots. Yeah, that was wild. And it's obviously something that Robert Richardson has gotten interested in. And it's shot in this kind of contrasty black and white. And the camera is flying through swamps and through plantation fields and through battlefields. And there is something kind of novel about it. I'd never really seen a movie shot with drones that quite looks like this. But I don't know that it was necessarily like useful i don't know that it necessarily aided the story in any way um i kind of just feel like robert richardson who i think also shot king richard um is just

kind of like what can i do next uh at this point like i want to do a sports movie i want to do a movie with drones like and he's you know and there is something there is something about every time a production ends up in you know new or New Orleans or that, you know, it's like Spanish moss and water and reflections and more Spanish moss and then some more Spanish. You know, it's interesting because I do think this movie has beats in it. Obviously, slavery movies are sort of tough to make because it's such a horrific thing it's also tough to make because there's all these templates of oh that movie that version has already been made or that version has already been made coming up with like this is an insane thing to say but like a fresh take on this i think is actually a very challenging thing to do and

there are elements of the movie i think that are very like I like that it doesn't dwell in the cruelty forever like you said Amanda first third of it very challenging to watch elements of reels in there that are really cool but then it's kind of like oh like what if this was like more like we were saying actiony what if this was

sort of more had more momentum than a movie like this sometimes has. But the flip side is, it's like what they didn't do was like shoot this, like the drone shots are novel, but I'm also like, I've seen these trees a million times in films before.

I also just at home now, my brain turns off at a drone shot just because it's used so frequently in, you know, as an establishing like cheap. I thought it was kind of a clever way to do the at-home thing because so often it's like so unpleasant to look at a movie on your television. I was like, this is actually quite beautiful.

Yeah, but I'm just like, okay, so this is the filler you're telling me at this place. Like I'm going to look at my phone. Anyway, that's me. I'm a bad. I'll tell you what I thought the intent was in this case because I agree with you that one thing that needs to be retired is the overhead drone shot at 5,000 feet tracking a car on a lonely road through a forest which indicates a kind of ominousness. Right. We're done on that. Like we got it.

It's been in like 30 Peter in the film was simultaneously like a benefit and a scourge, right? It was sort of like you could escape and there's so many places to go. But by the same token, there's something kind of the sort of like lack of information and the way you've been like stuck in this one place for this one period of time means that like you have to work hard to get into these new landscapes so like i get that there was intent yeah um or at least how i read the intent but the film itself is just like a lot of recent fukua movies to me where it's just like it just feels very stuck in the mud by the time you get to the second act and i'm like okay so there's a whole hour and a half left in this movie um and now i think the fact that it was not recognized probably indicates that there won't be much

conversation about it. It's also a movie like Will Smith is one of the great theatrical distribution movie stars of the last 30 years. And this movie is just on Apple TV Plus. Yeah.

Did anyone see it? I mean, Will Smith was doing like the sad influencer thing of like reposting on Instagram stories every person who tagged him watching his movie. And guys, I have

to tell you, it was like in the tents, you know? I think more people watched The Daily Show interview, which the less we say about it, the better. That's fascinating. I think you're probably right. Let's talk about The Whale. Zach, why don't we foreground it by just maybe you can talk a little bit more deeply about your connectivity to Brendan Fraser and what you've written about him before we dig into the nitty-gritty of the film, because they're obviously interconnected. Yeah, so I did a story in, I guess, 2018 called Whatever Happened to Brendan Fraser?

That was the conceit at the time. He had been like a cinema icon of our youth. Yeah, for sure. We're all about the same age. So in the 90s, this guy's very ubiquitous, kind of blockbuster star, and kind of really dropped off the map. And it was almost like idle curiosity. I think the story was pegged to he had been on season three of The Affair in a supporting role on television. He was about to be in Danny McBride's Trust the short-lived FX show

Danny Boyle's Trust excuse me Danny McBride's Trust would have been yeah I would watch that show you can retake that if you want to retake it no I'll just rock with it

let it rock yeah God bless let the people know yeah don't make Bobby work if he doesn't have to you know

yeah well that's my priority here yeah but it was it was more just born out of curiosity than anything else. Um, and it just ended up being a very interesting answer, you know, and part of it was, was this was a guy who had sort of been beaten up on film sets and turns out that like on

the mummy and the mummy too, he was doing his own stunts and, uh, his body was like deteriorating and, and, uh, in a, in a way that kind of he was getting surgeries. He just couldn't do the work in a way that he was accustomed to doing it. And he'd always sort of been a very physical actor. I think we're going to talk about it, but it's like whether it's Encino Man or George of the Jungle, it's like he's got his shirt off. He's like bumping into things. And lo and behold, took a toll on the body. That was part of it.

Part of it were these sort of revelations that we talked about where he alleged that a member of the HFPA assaulted him in, I believe, 2003 at a luncheon. And basically had post-traumatic stress from that, felt like he was maybe blacklisted from the industry from that. He is a very sensitive, delicate soul. I think it's one of the reasons he's been a successful screen actor because that quality often really comes across in a really effective way.

So it was just him kind of telling a story. And like, lo and behold, there were all these people when that story came out were like, I really root for this guy. I really care about this guy. It's a very viral story for GQ. And with The Whale, we just recently did a kind of a follow-up. I mean, he's had a really interesting four years.

You know, at the time, he really wasn't working that much. And what he's working on was kind of third season of a cable prestige television show. Here with the whale, you know, he's in a lead role, but in between, you know, he has like a very fun role in No Sudden Move, the Soderbergh movie from, is it last year or earlier this year?

Last year. He is in Scorsese's upcoming Killers of the Flower Moon. He's been like doing cool screen work and also just kind of having a second act that's very, very rare, I think, in the industry. Like kind of when you disappear, you don't come back

or you come back in the way that he came back in 2018 where it was like, oh, maybe this FX show is kind of good. You don't come back as the star of a Darren Aronofsky movie unless you're making work, in which case that's exactly what you do but um so you know we recently did a story kind of talking about that and and and where he's at and and and this interesting kind of return to the spotlight for him um which has been you know he's he's he's out there at film festivals getting ovations and stuff in a way that

kind of never happened for him, but certainly hasn't happened in years and years and years. Yeah, it's a little bit like a John Travolta-esque comeback story, but not quite the same. I think now he operates in a place where we're reflecting not just on what you helped him tell about the experiences that he had through the industry, but also maybe we'll reassess what kind of actor he was,

because he was just more of a traditional kind of matinee idol action star or comedy star and not someone who we thought of as necessarily the most sophisticated performer. This film is asking something really deep of him. I mean, it's a very challenging movie. Um, it's a movie about an obese and reclusive English teacher who's trying to reconnect with his daughter, uh,

as he, you know, it approaches the final stage of his life. And it's a, like all Aronofsky movies, a very, uh, aggressive and transcendent or at least transcendent seeming film.

Um, I'm a huge Aronofsky fan. I'm not a very big fan of this movie. And I think one of the interesting things about this conversation is, can someone who is at the center of the film give a great performance that we really, really appreciate and also reject the film? Because there's been an interesting

external conversation about the movie. So before we get to that, The Whale, what do you think, Amanda? So The Whale is based on a 2012 play that I have not seen. It was written by Samuel D. Hunter, and I believe he worked with Aronofsky on the screenplay. And this is the kind of thing that just makes me think we got to give up on plays. You know, like as an art form, just like no more plays. Because it has that like mega allegorical, too emotionally like messy, but neat, everything set up, just like overth thought and under baked simultaneously stuff that

possibly in the right hands works better in a theater in a personal experience but like I don't even know about that and I don't feel that it was translated well to the screen um so yeah that's a no for me I'm also just historically less of an Aronofsky fan than you are. I don't have the patience for it. I just like, everything is not the Bible, you know, and we're not all Christ, just like trying to get through it despite whatever. So, or Job, or, you know, your figure of choice. I think brendan frazier was very good in this and i think this also despite my problems with the film and even the character and the character it does locate something in brendan frazier that we all responded to i think during the 90s and that I think you really like hit on on your piece, Zach,

that like this openness and this like openness, emotional kind of accessibility and sensitivity, as you said, Zach, that I like I do think is really apparent in a movie that I otherwise didn't really respond to. And to your point of can you celebrate bad performances in a good film, yes, the Oscars do it, like, every year in Best Actor and Best Actress, more often than not. But it's an interesting one to talk about. You're slightly complicated in your ability to, you know, critique the film but what like what did you make

of the whale so i i i know brendan frazier a little bit uh or at least i've spent some time with him and so one thing i love when a director does is use an actor's qualities in in a way that sort of works for the the piece um and, but also understands something fundamental about the actor. This is a side, but I think about it a lot. Once I did a Bradley Cooper story, and David O. Russell, it was right around the time of Silver Lines Playbook. And David O. Russell,

I was talking to him about Bradley Cooper, and he was like, the thing I realized about Bradley Cooper is he's a very angry man. I don't think people thought of Bradley Cooper that way. He's the star of The Hangover. It's like funny. But it was like David Russell saw something fundamental about this guy

that had never been put on screen before. Bradley Cooper gets nominated for an Oscar, and this whole new career is born. And I think Aronofsky's doing something very interesting with Brendan Fraser. If you know Brendan, he really is a tender guy. He really is a decent guy. He really is a guy who is really trying to connect. And lo and behold, that's what this character is.

And that's what they're trying to do. And so I found it very moving in that respect because I know the guy. And I was like, oh, it's fascinating how this movie is using the qualities of the man. And they're kind of feeding off each other, you know. So you're right, Sean. I'm a little bit biased isn't the right word, but I'm sort of close to the situation. And, you know, so I sort of watched it looking at him and really enjoying the performance. Yeah, that's all I was going to say.

It's like also when you see these movies because you're writing a story about someone, you're watching them in a different way. Yeah, it'd be great if I called the Aronofsky and I was like, hey, man, I didn't really like the movie. Can we just talk for a bit? No, but it's just like you're focused on like the performance rather than the. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I also I like Sean.

I'm a big Aronofsky fan. I really like the particular intensity that he brings to films. And, you know, I think we'll talk about this, but some of the controversy around The Whale, it's very interesting because it's like, oh, well, part of it is, is this exploitative or leering,

or is it a Darren Aronofsky movie? Or is it both? You know, and all three are possible. Yeah, in looking at some of the criticism of the film, I certainly had the reaction, I guess you guys are not very familiar with Darren Aronofsky. Because obviously he shows the kind of the grim side of all aspects of his character's lives.

You mentioned the wrestler earlier in Mickey Rourke. I think Black Swan comes to mind when I think of this movie. They feel like they're in the kind of league of people who are creative types or performer types. And in some ways, even Frasier's character here, who is a professor, who is a teacher on his teaching on Zoom, but not showing his face to his classmates, but still kind of performing the act of teaching as a performance, just like a ballerina, just like a professional wrestler. He's constantly looking at the vulnerabilities of those characters and using them

to like approach a kind of transcendence, a kind of like a crucifixion moment that then leads to an ascension. Like that's, he's going over and over again, even Mother, which is more of a freak out movie, even than these other films that we're talking about, is still a movie about trying to reach a higher plane with your spirit. Now that sounds like full of pretense, but that's definitely what Aronofsky is after. And this film is interesting because unlike say the wrestler,

which concludes with a professional wrestler atop the top rope in a ring or a black swan, which culminates in this kind of massive freak out for a you know a ballerina or even mother which kind of like descends into hell literally this movie's just in like in a small house an apartment really and i think it's the like fatal flaw of the film and it's the it's the play aspect that you're talking about which is like confinement is the story and confinement is the aspect of the character and it's it's set against this allegory about um ahab and melville and moby dick which is of course a story about the open sea yeah and uh it feels ill-considered that's like a note you would give on the term paper that the author of the play would have written about moby dick where it's like you missed the point a little bit like it's not about

confinement it's not about confinement. It's not about harpooning the whale. I struggle with the movie for a variety of reasons. I felt like tonally Aronofsky is not well suited to sympathy. And this is a film that necessitates sympathy. I think that intensity that you mentioned, Zach, is where he operates best. And honestly, if it feels like he has a modicum of speculation

about whether or not his lead is actually a good person, it actually works better. And this movie, because Fraser is such a sympathetic figure, not just in the external world in the story that you wrote, but as an actor, the movie is like really at cross purposes. I feel like it is like hammering into each other. So it really didn't work for me, but I did think that he was quite good.

I thought Hong Chao was also quite good. She plays a woman, a nurse who is helping him as his weight grows and as he becomes more stricken in his health. Sadie Sink and Samantha Morton, I did not feel were as good in the film, but I love Samantha Morton as an actress. I thought she was put in a tricky spot in this film.

It's a really interesting artifact because on the one hand, we're in this time where these smaller arthousey movies are not doing as well, but this movie did quite well in theaters and has gotten quite a bit of press, some very negative press. There's a much shared Roxane Gay column about the film in the New York Times over the weekend, writing about the idea of fat phobia and whether or not this film does that. Fraser, of course, not a small man, but is wearing a significant amount of prosthetics to approximate a 600 pound man. That sort of thing is deeply in the conversation about what an actor can and can't do on screen and how much they need to represent a class of people or race or gender. I'm personally a little bit less interested in that aspect of the debate. I do

think kind of regardless, it's hard to say that Frasier doesn't do an amazing job. Even the most critical pieces, I think very few people have said that Frasier is less than emotive in the work. It's a really unusual artifact. Feels more like a 2011 movie to me than it does a 2022 movie in some ways. Except i think in the covid sense of this is boring but i think a movie that can be shot in one room under very controlled circumstances is probably a very appealing prospect if you're trying to make a movie in the years uh 2022 21 20 you know it's true it definitely feels like a project of that um can brendan fraser win best actor i was hoping you guys would tell me um i mean i think It's true. It definitely feels like a project of that. Can Brendan Fraser win Best Actor?

I was hoping you guys would tell me. I mean, I think my opinion would be yes. I think this is such a narrative-based, the awards year to year. What story does the Oscars want to tell about themselves? What story does Hollywood want to tell about themselves? What story does Hollywood want to tell about itself? You know, Mickey Rourke got nominated for the wrestler when Aronofsky did a similar thing, and I think there's some speculation

that he would have won, but he wasn't the most pleasant person, I think, during some of that campaigning, and that hurt him. If you ever happen to meet Brendan at an Academy luncheon, I think he's probably going to charm you. You know, I think probably, and you guys are more expert than I am, if this film continues to get sort of very, very negative reviews,

then maybe not. But to me, it's a very powerful story. The redemption of this man is reflected in the performance, where this is a guy who's kind of taken out of life he wants and is giving it one more shot there's a there's a nice symmetry there um i think there's some warmth for the studio and for the director in uh hollywood and i think it would be very fun you know now it would be fun to see Colin Farrell when best actor too. I like,

it's an extremely charming man with an incredibly great CV. If CR were here, I know that he would, he would, he would extend his heart to Colin one more time. But, um, so,

so I think they're both worthy. You made that, you made that sound like that with the last time that yeah there'll be plenty more opportunities yeah yeah

so I don't know I think but I think it would be cool and I think it would be more narratively interesting for the Academy Awards

for this at least to be a possibility up until the day that it doesn't happen I think that will be the case I think he'll definitely be nominated whether or not he wins

will be interesting looking. I think he'll definitely be nominated. Whether or not he wins will be interesting. Looking back at his career, did anything surprise you as you thought about how to build out, like, what are the 10 essential Brendan Fraser performances? Better career than you thought? Worse? Weirder.

Okay. Just a lot of... And I was surprised how much of a personal relationship I had to some of the movies, which, you know, a little bit of that here that I've seen like way more than anyone should ever have seen them so that's strange and then I do think I was surprised by the emotional connection or relationship like everyone seems to have some sort of, like, oh, Brendan Fraser, like, the personal connection. It's very strange, you know? And I thought that that was just because of all of Zach's work

and how familiar he's been in the last few years. But I was like, oh, no. Like, I have a very specific idea of who this person is and who this person was in movies. Before you did your story in 18, would you have said, if you were asked, I'm a fan of Brendan Fraser's? No, not really.

I mean, I think I'm 40. So the very early end of his career. It's wild when you say that out loud. Encino man. I'm 42. School ties. I'm aware. 40 also.

You are? Just to be clear. What's that? You're 40 also. Yeah, yeah. I'm aware. 40 also. You are? Just to be clear. What's that? You're 40 also. Yeah, yeah. I'm not 42 years old. I'm 40 years old as well. Yeah.

I'm like three months older than you, though. That's true. And showing it every day. Yeah, it's true. Right around the eyes. It's tough. But yeah, like school ties and Cino Man. Airheads is a big rewatch for me as a kid.

You kind of can't stream it now. That's my guy, Zach Barron. Airheads, hell yeah. I'm really like, we need to get Airheads back. I agree. If this does anything. Where's the Steelbook 4K for Airheads? That's what I want to know.

I was horrified to learn about Steelbooks on that podcast. Oh, yeah? Yeah. I'll show you some. I got plenty in my house. I don't want to see them. Okay. Okay.

Yeah. I need Janice Films to do something about this. Where do you think Airheads came in on the site and sound poll? 101? 102? Yeah, probably 102. Yeah. Airheads fucking...

So, I loved those movies. Me too. In retrospect, I had underrated certain other ones. If you go back and watch The Mummy, and maybe we'll talk about it but like that's quite fun very good it's also like oh they don't make movies like this anymore

it's a very particular example of a maybe like it's not the one that we're fighting for I have a big theory about that movie it's kind of a fun one

and then you asked Amanda like oh what are the surprises it was funny I rewatched some for this so I'm you know

I'm on my sort of third rewatch with two stories and this the thing I liked this time around was like the kind of just the insane

premises of the movies that they would just pump out in the mid 90s and also like the locales like there's you know a movie he's in

Younger and Younger with Donald Sutherland and it's like this is a movie that takes place in Glendale at a storage facility. And it's about how Donald Sutherland

is a philanderer and is haunted by his dead wife, who's like, you have not been faithful to me. And they're like, great premise for a movie, let's get that out there. And so it's like, you watch these movies and you're seeing like

Joe Pesci and Donald Sutherland and you're seeing like Encino and Glendale and there's just like a prosaic nature to these movies that has completely

been lost from cinema and I kind of quite enjoyed revisiting. In 100 meters, turn right. Actually, no. Turn left. There's some awesome

new breakfast wraps at McDonald's. Really? Yeah. There's the sausage bacon and egg. A crispy seasoned chicken one. Mmm. A spicy end egg. Worth the detour. They sound amazing. Bet they taste amazing, too. Sigh. Wish I had a mouth. Take your morning into a delicious

new direction with McDonald's new breakfast wraps. Add a small premium roast coffee for a dollar plus tax. At participating McDonald's restaurants. Let's do the Hall of Fame. How do you feel about having Zach here for the Hall of Fame? Great. He really did his homework.

I don't know why I'm being so nice to you. Do you think that on this podcast, do you think that's going to change once we do the Hall of Fame? I don't know. I don't know. But it was very sweet actually to like go walk past zach's office and he'd just be like diligently sitting there with his airpods in watching like the scout or whatever at two well that was me actually preparing my 1982 movie draft okay great anytime did we not do 82 no we did 84. We did my year. Who would be fifth chair

if you were going to participate in the 1982 movie draft? Do we need five? Eileen. Eileen. We need five, yeah. Oh, Eileen. Eileen.

We'll see you in 2027 when we do that pod. Yeah. Okay. Let's do the Hall of Fame. Okay. Brendan Fraser announces himself to the world in 1992,

30 years ago, with a film called Encino man this film was sold not on the strength of Fraser's fame which did not exist but on the fame of Pauly Shore yeah and this film in my

opinion is definitively in the Brendan Fraser Hall of Fame of course when that 1000 this is like the number one we always go back and forth of like the debut film do we need to include it it's

important in the career historically this is absolutely no-brainer uh a high school comedy about an unfrozen caveman who emerges as the coolest guy in town uh quality flick and i just i just want people to know you know maybe bobby doesn't know this but it's like go watch this movie listen up Pauly Short it's like catchphrases and understand that that uh all of us were just like walking around talking to each other just like yeah buddy yeah yeah that's just that's really true that's how we were as Americans then what a weird time to grow up um let's just keep moving I don't want to spend too much time at Pauly Short we got to do his Hall of Fame at some point down the road here. 1992 School Ties. Absolutely.

This is also quite a year, quite a breakthrough for him. So he's in one movie in like a basically uncredited part before these two movies. Called Dogfight.

Called Dogfight. And he plays like a sailor. He gets thrown into like a pinball machine. These are the first two movies that he effectively is in. In my opinion, they both belong in the Hall of Fame.

They're both iconic films. I don't, it's very, and also School Tides, which we can get into. Matt Damon's in this movie. Chris O'Donnell's in this movie. Brendan Fraser is starring in a movie that also stars Matt Damon, Chris O'Donnell, Randall Babkinoff, Andrew Lowery, Cole Hauser, Ben Affleck, and Anthony Rapp. And he's the star. Ben Affleck is shirtless dancing as a supporting character in this film.

The authors of this film are amazing to me. It's so good. So Daryl Ponikson, who is the novelist who wrote The Last Detail, among many other great novels, and also Dick Wolf? Yeah. The creator of Law & Order. Absolutely. Those are the two screenwriters of this movie. I don't think I knew that until today.

This is an incredibly 90s film as well. Very much. This was a very important film if you were a teenager interested in young men in the 90s. It just really, just an all-star lineup watched it a lot i i don't i guess it was like a sleepover movie it's a pretty weird movie to have as a sleepover yeah you know sure but this is a movie about um brendan frazier plays a jewish student at a prep school in the 50s who is discriminated against because of his Jewish identity. So that's like weird to throw on after the Tiger Beat and the makeovers, you know, but

we did. Still plenty of locker room sequences, as I recall. Really true. Okay, so those first two are in. Is that the first time ever that the first two films in an actor's career are going in the Hall of Fame? The next couple of films are less known. 1993 is 20 bucks. And then Zach just mentioned 1993 is younger and younger. Neither of which I think are making the Hall of Fame here today. Yeah. No, interesting time capsules.

It's like, oh man, they were making movies like this. I guess they were. They were. We have two greens and two reds. Let's continue. Now we enter a fascinating period of fame with honors airheads

and the scout are all released in 1994 and I will say as a 12 year old boy I was like wow is this Cary Grant is this Jimmy Stewart among us because I saw basically Casablanca I

saw all three of these movies in theaters and I like quite like them I like them quite a bitlanca I saw all three of these movies in theaters and I like quite like them I like them quite a bit and I also saw all three of these movies many many times on cable television for whatever reason Brendan Fraser dominated HBO and TNT in the mid 90s there's a part of me that wants to put all three in and we can talk about these movies individually but as I look at them I'm'm like... With honors? I've seen With Honors so many times. Did you rewatch it?

I didn't. I don't have to watch it ever again. Zach and I both did. You did? Yeah. Okay. Independently. We didn't do a single minute of this together,

which is pretty stupid in retrospect. This is a weird movie. Look, I have a very busy schedule. I can't be watching with honors on your time too I do understand that this co-star is Joe Pesci

I think he's the star really of this movie but this movie to me more so than anything Brendan Fraser does is is best known as the movie in which Joe Pesci

plays an unhoused man who lectures Gore Vidal in a Harvard lecture room actual Gore Vidal yeah yes that scene for whatever reason, I'll never forget it.

It lives in my mind. That might have been my introduction to Gore Vidal, who I love. With Honor is probably the least likely to make the Hall of Fame. But it is also memorable. I mean, we can put Airheads in. We can go ahead and do it right now.

Do you guys want to? I think so. Airheads is a broad comedy about uh three members of a rock band who essentially take a radio station hostage in an effort to get their song played on the air uh it also stars steve buscemi and adam sandler and joe montagna and chris farley and a whole an incredible lineup of 90s comedy stars is it actually funny i don't fucking care it was to me when I was 13. Yeah.

I must have watched this movie like 50 times. It's a lot of fun. Okay. Okay, let's put Airheads in. Let's make this with honors a yellow, and then let's talk about The Scout. Did you revisit or visit The Scout? Yeah, not the whole thing,

but I did revisit The Scout. What relationship did you have to The Scout as a kid? Well, I didn't have television growing up i was like basically raised by by wolves in the outdoors but um sean once taught me what television was i literally called sean i was like how do i get cable i was 25 years old oh i thought this was gonna be the soup well i mean it was shortly after that i was like i thought this soup was fake i didn't think anything on it was real and then i was like well i guess i need cable so i called him i was like, I thought this soup was fake. I didn't think anything on it was real. And then I was like, well, I guess I need cable.

So I called him. I was like, how do you get TV? All of this happened. Me introducing you to television is, that's probably my greatest work. You know, I feel great about having a... I still remember when the cable man came, you know, he attached the wires.

You still don't really know how to work. I was like Encino man. I was like, oh my God. And when we let you like pull up the Apple TV and try to find what we're watching on streaming, it's a struggle still. But you're working on it. So to answer your question, I missed the sort of HBO run of this stuff. Okay. You know, it was playing at, like Amanda said, sleepovers, friends' houses, birthday parties.

So, you know, watch the scout or something like that. I would not say watching it again that, you know, it has aged with any particular distinction. Although I, you know, I enjoy the performers. You know, it's just like Albert Brooks, like being like doing Albert Brooks stuff. But yeah, I don't know if this is my Hall of Fame. It was not. It did not have a lot of relevance to me as a young child. I just watched School Ties again instead.

I guess it does sort of represent the emerging Brendan Fraser archetype as the kindly fish out of water. And a little bit nervier and anxiety riddled than, this comes up often in his characters and obviously is resonant in The Whale as well. And that you don't necessarily

think of him as a character or as an actor who's pursuing those kinds of characters, but that he is, you know, in this case, he plays

a man named Steve Nebraska who becomes an obsession of a baseball scout who is attempting to bring him to the New York Yankees. And he, you know, Steve Nebraska has some struggles. And this is a really interesting movie. Also, very notable screenwriting credits on this film. So Albert Brooks and Monica Johnson, who collaborated on a number of screenplays over the years, co-wrote the film with Andrew Bergman who also directed films like The Freshman and also Roger Angel the legendary New Yorker writer who is of course best known for his writing about

baseball and who just passed away recently and it's frankly a hero to me as I'm sure he is to you Zach um and this movie also has like Diane Wiest in it and uh Michael Rapaport and J.K. Simmons it's like a real 90s artifact in a lot of ways. I like it a lot. I will make it a yellow for the sake of this conversation. Okay. Especially considering I have a lot less to say about some of these other films

that are coming up in the 90s. The Passion of Darkly Noon I've never seen. Did you watch this? No, I didn't either. Did you watch this for your research? Yeah, yeah.

The first time around. Yeah. It's a strange, it's a very strange movie. Red then. Yeah, right. I think we can read that. Brendan plays the titular Darkly Noon in the film.

I watched Mrs. Winterborn for the first time last night. This is wild. What a film. What on earth? This stars Ricky Lake, speaking of the 90s, and Shirley MacLaine. Okay, let me see if I can recreate this plot for you. I'm not looking at Wikipedia. So, Rikki Lake is pregnant and is on a train. And maybe she has to leave her home for some reason.

It's not a great situation. I can't totally remember. And she's on a train and she befriends Brendan Fraser and his pregnant wife, partner. And then there's a train accident and Ricky Lake wakes up in the hospital pregnant. And no, she wakes up in the hospital. Where's my baby?

Where's my baby? And the baby's okay. Um, but the hospital has confused her for the pregnant wife of Brendan Frazier died on the train, both. Who died on the train. Both of whom died on the train. Very sad. But then it turns out that Brendan Fraser's character

has a twin brother, also played by Brendan Fraser, and is very wealthy. And her mother, the mother of this very wealthy twin brother, and I guess the dead guy, is Shirley MacLaine. And they take in Ricky Lake and the baby as the grandson that they, or grandchild, I actually don't remember, of an heir, right? Except that Brendan Fraser is the rich brother who doesn't believe that, thinks something fishy is going on, and it's kind of an asshole.

And then guess what? They fall in love. Yeah. Because it's a 1996 dramedy directed by Richard Benjamin and that's what happens in these kinds of films.

What a weird film. Extraordinary. The casting is really, really bonkers. Yeah. It's something that you could only get

in 1996. I don't think it needs to go in the Hall of Fame. It's not going in the Hall of Fame. It is available. Unless you really love it. It should not be in the Hall of Fame. It's available. Unless you really love it.

It should not be in the Hall of Fame. Yeah. I'm going to start calling you Mr. Winterborn. Please. Yeah. Okay. 1997. That's actually my brother. What if there were two Zachs?

Yeah. That's right. Zach and Jack? Zach and Jack Barron? Wow. Yeah. Think about it. That would be weird.

Yeah. It's a miracle that Jack didn't get on this program before I did. Okay. All right. Okay. 1997, The Twilight of the Golds. Why does he keep playing characters whose name is in the title? David Gold after playing Bill and Hugh Winterborn and then Darkly Noon and The Passion of Darkly Noon.

Yeah. It's pretty weird. That movie's not going in. Yeah. George of the Jungle. Have to. So this is an adaptation of a famous cartoon. And this is the first, I think, of the true Brendan Fraser cartoon live action performance.

He gives a few more of these as his career goes on. It's an iconic movie that I don't like. But it is iconic, especially to a certain generation. And especially in the Brendan Fraser story. Like, you can... I have a vision of him, even as I don't really remember this movie, honestly. It's on Disney Plus right now. Okay, great.

People can watch it. Yeah, and it is the template. You know, it's very interesting. We're talking about school ties. For him, there is a kind of forking path, right? He's in this movie with, like like Ben Affleck, Matt Damon, guys who go on to make prestige movies, basically. You know, and Damon's case get, you know,

I think nominated for some Oscars. They're making Good Will Hunting. He's making George of the Jungle. Yeah. And, you know, you could make an argument that Good Will Hunting does not exist without With Honors. That would be like a very funny argument to make. Probably accurate in some like respect

where people are like, all right, I guess you can do this. Joe Pesci will be played by Matt Damon and he's a janitor, you know? But instead, in part because Hollywood is about what your frame is like, what you look like.

Brendan's a big guy. At times, very muscular. And in part, I think just due to the vagaries that could happen one way, it could happen the other. He finds himself in movies like these, with his shirt off, very muscular, playing, you've kind of flagged in the scout. He has this ability, especially at this time.

So like, basically be like, I am, and right from Encino, man, like I emerged from a literal cave. The world is new to me. And the movie is going to be about me like effectively like waking up and processing the world as it is. And we're going to do that for comedy. And we're going to do that for,

for drama and George's jungle, really the prototypical of like, this guy comes out of the jungle, doesn't know what's going on. His shirt is off. he bumps into stuff and this is gonna set the template for 20 years of screen acting by him um and is like what makes the whale so interesting because he really spent a long time doing stuff like this and in part it was because this movie came out was incredibly successful and meant a lot to a lot of people it It's in the Hall of Fame.

Yeah. 1988, still breathing. Haven't seen this film. Anybody here seen it? I have not. Amazing. So that's what's so unique about this person's career. We've had some examples of this as we've done Halls of Fame in the past.

But, you know, this is Georgia the Jungle. And this is, I guess, an independent production starring Joanna Going and Brendan Fraser. Okay. I mean, we were all teenagers in the 90s. So if it wasn't, you had to seek out

the things that weren't George of the Jungle. You're right, but okay, here's a great example. That same year, Bill Condon's film Gods and Monsters came along. Sure.

And this felt like a film that I was reading about in Entertainment Weekly for two months. Because it was nominated for Oscars. Yeah. You know? So that was served to you in a different way.

Brendan Fraser was not nominated, but... He was not. I revisited this movie. Quite an odd film. Yes. Which is a portrait of James Whale, the famed director of Frankenstein and Bride of Frankenstein, among others, at the end of his life, kind of reconciling his identity as a gay

man and his place in Hollywood history and his life and his career. Ian McKellen stars as Whale and Brendan Fraser plays Clayton Boone, who is a man who cuts his lawn, and then they form a sort of friendship, and then he enlists Clayton to

do certain things for him in his life. Very strange movie. And is Clayton Boot is not a real, is this based on a true story? I don't think it is. I think it's like there's certain like imagined aspects of this. Very odd movie. I liked Ian McKellen's performance for the first half, and then the second half, I thought it takes like a very odd turn. But it's a very well-known movie in Fraser's career.

Is it in the Hall of Fame? Yeah, it's a very well-known movie in Fraser's career. Is it in the Hall of Fame? Yeah, it's interesting. If you want to tell a story about him, then this is part of the evidence that you marshal to say, hey, this guy was always a great dramatic actor and he just wasn't appreciated for it in his time. If you go back and watch the movie, you say, well, yeah, he is

kind of a great dramatic actor, but this movie just doesn't quite work, you know, despite the fact that he's acting opposite Ian McKellen and they're both great

and, like, Ling Rai Rave is in this movie and there's plenty of star power and it gets nominated, right? Ian McKellen does.

Yeah, he does for the performance. So it's like, okay, yeah, you want proof of concept that he can do it? Here it is. Is it, like, okay, yeah, you want proof of concept that he can do it? Here it is. Is it like ultimately

if you want to put together like a... If you want it in there for the narrative about, hey, this guy could always do dramatic parts, then I think you put it in. If you want

a sort of collection of like the 10 best films or whatever, then I'm not sure if it makes sense. That sounds like a yellow to me. Yeah. I think it's telling that he doesn't do a lot more movies like this for a while. You know, it is part of the narrative, but it also, it doesn't stick in the same way.

And that's, you know, because other movies like make more money or whatever. But I don't think it's like, it's a tool that he has. It's a tool in his toolbox but it's not necessarily representative of this of this arc of the career in some ways like blast from the past which is like the next yes how have i seen blast from the past so many times is it just because alicia silverstone this is your airheads yeah this is my airheads and i think it must be because you know like clueless was just sacred and so then just years after Clueless. Yeah, and then anything that Alicia Silverstone did, I watched. This is literally just a remake of Encino Man, except he's not a caveman or whatever.

He is from the 60s and was hiding from the Cuban Missile Crisis. Yes, he's been hiding in a bomb shelter with his parents for 30 years. Right, his parents who are Christopher Walken and Sissy Spacek. Giving quite zany performances in this movie. And yet another movie where he emerges

blinking into the world being like, what's going on? And he emerges, to your point about locations, like a porn shop in the valley. Yes.

And then Alicia Silverstone has to teach him the ways of the valley. I don't know whether this is in the Hall of Fame, but I have seen it like more than five times, which is more than anyone should have seen this movie. It's so interesting that his Hall of Fame

is going to be riddled with films that people would describe as mediocre comedies, but hold a special nostalgic place in our heart in part because of the age of the hosts. Right, but I do... This is very particular to the big picture. No, but I do also think that that's a lot of the Brendan Fraser, like, appeal.

And I think that's why so many people connected to Zach's stories in addition to them, like, to Brendan being, like, a very, like, sympathetic person and also the stories being good. But, like, and also to the comeback right now. Yeah. And honestly, like, I think why people went to see The Whale in theaters because people were like, oh, Brandon Fraser, I have some sort of fondness for that person. I don't, we can yellow blast from the past. I think it's got a strong case,

not as strong a case as another film he makes in 1989, which is The Mummy. Mummy, yeah. Which is, okay, here's my theory on The Mummy. It's a beloved film. We've talked about it

a couple times in the past about how the generation that is slightly younger than the three of It's a beloved film. We've talked about it a couple times in the past about how the generation that is slightly younger than the three of us worships this movie. This movie has a lifespan on social media now that it suggests it is sort of like Star Wars A New Hope if you are 28. I like it a lot.

It's definitely even better than I remembered. I did see it in movie theaters. It is a little bit of the template for Marvel movies. It is technically a period piece that is a swashbuckling kind of post-Indiana Jones adventure movie, but its tone is much more like wink, wink, nudge, nudge in the middle of every battle sequence. And this movie was very successful.

It had multiple sequels and spinoffs and has a kind of arcane mythology attached to it. But its star is very Chris Evans-y in Captain America in Brendan Fraser in that performance. And so I think that's one of the reasons why this movie persists

is because it feels like a precursor to what a lot of contemporary action movies are like. Right. Except, like, notably, it's shot in, like, Marrakesh. Yes. Right? So, one of the things that, if you go back and look at it now, it's so striking is you watch Marvel movies and you're like, you're in Manhattan Beach or you're in a soundstage in Atlanta. And it looks like that. And these guys are just like, yeah, we're actually in the Moroccan desert I think it's supposed to

be Egypt but that's my husband being like film on location I care if you go to Germany so that's great that you both have that together beautiful thank you that's how you build a successful marriage and and also although you know Marvel movies this too it's like you know his Marvel movies do this too. It's like, you know, it's great actors in this movie. You know, it's like, it's like you're watching people who are good at the work do silly stuff and stuff, some of which has not really aged

very well at all. But just the fact that it is sort of this big budget entertainment on location with like actors exchanging real lines of dialogue. So I agree with you.

It's like the precursor to Marvel stuff. In some ways, you could point to some things about this movie and say, hey, they could actually use a little bit more of what's here.

Yeah, I agree with you. I think Marvel movies could also use more Rachel Weisz. Well, I was literally going to say that, but then they did and they didn't. She was okay in it.

I enjoyed her. I thought she was very good. She was great in that movie. Yeah, she was great. But that film was not very good. Yeah. Okay, so. I love Rachel Weisz.

We all do here on The Big Picture. The Mummy's in. Blast from the Past is yellow. In 1999, we also get Dudley Do-Right. Did you re-watch this? I didn't.

I did. This is, what is happening? So this is like a satire of Canada I guess yeah um and there's a lot of cartoon work to the point that I thought that like there had been a streaming glitch you know and they were just showing me like some weird kids cartoon instead of Dudley Do-Right but then I fast-forwarded and it wasn't still uh in fact Dudley Do-Right, but then I fast forwarded and it wasn't still, in fact, Dudley Do-Right. Brendan Fraser plays a Mountie or something thereof. I'm not a Canada expert. I've actually never been to Canada.

So I hope our Canadian listeners don't get angry at me. Sarah Jessica Parker is also in this movie and they sing to each other. And then I closed the tab. So I don't know what to say. I saw it. This is the year that Hugh Wilson and Brendan Fraser double dipped

because Hugh Wilson also directed Blast from the Past. And so they made two films together in this year. Dudley Do-Right is a character who you would see in interstitials

on the Rocky and Bullwinkle show. I don't know if Rocky and Bullwinkle has any cultural cachet here in 2022. Highly recommend it. Huge fan as well as a kid. Do you really? Love Rocky and Bullwinkle.

When did you watch it? Horace and Natasha, let's go. Okay. Was this like a Rich Barron thing? Why do I drag my father into this? Because your father showed you a lot of your early comedy loves. Yes, that's true. Okay. That wasn't like a negative thing. He showed me like this in Cool Hand you know, loves. Yes, that's true. Okay.

That wasn't like a negative thing. He showed me like this in Cool Handloops. He's like, this is cinema. Has some notes on Fort Ad Astra and it's like, you know, space, whatever. And he likes old timey comedy. Yeah. He had an issue with the physics there. Yeah.

Okay. James Gray. Apologize. Yeah. I'm enjoying just observing your marriage. Okay. Distance. Thanks.

Dudley Duret's not going in the Hall of Fame. Fair. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think. I'm enjoying just observing your marriage okay in the distance thanks so much Dudley Duret's not going in the Hall of Fame fair? yeah yeah yeah I'm okay with that I think from the Brendan perspective

this is a this is a sort of an element of like where his taste goes to a place that I don't we just don't I don't share

the taste it's like it's like the cartoon interstitial thing Canadians are funny thing. It is a type of humor. It used to, frankly, be a more widespread common type of humor. Agree.

It's just not one that I ever shared. At this stage, we're in 1999. We have five greens, four yellows. And you might think to yourself, God, how are they ever going to get through the 2000s right and then we get to Bedazzled so Bedazzled

is a remake of a comedy starring Dudley Moore and Peter Cook from the 1960s British comedy guess what I love this

version of Bedazzled you do are you going to fight for it well here's the thing 17 year old horndog Sean

meeting Elizabeth Hurley in Bedazzled is probably clouding my opinion of the film. But I do think that this is kind of Brendan Fraser doing Jim Carrey. He plays like multiple versions of himself in multiple realities because Bedazzled is kind of a genie film. It's kind of a wish-may-come-true film. And it's a very broad comedy, very silly. As Zach said, we're in this cartoonish phase. But I think it's kind of a wish may come true film and it's a very broad comedy very silly as zach said we're in this cartoonish phase but i think it's kind of successful and whether or not like you're

a bedazzled person or a monkey bone person which is the next movie he makes the only live action animated comedy directed by henry selick your mileage may vary on these two films but they're both kind of pretty cult classic to a certain group i don't know if you care about either of these movies, Zach. No, I share the bedazzled thing. Again, you and I are, you know, similar in certain respects. Recently, Brendan and Elizabeth Hurley were photographed together,

I believe, in London while he was, like, on the London, the Whale press tour. And it was, like, actually very moving to see them together. Yeah.

Like Redford and Newman back together. So I have a like Redford and Newman back together. So I have a soft spot as well for this film. I'm yellowing bedazzled, goddammit. Now, Monkeybone for me,

you'd think would be a movie that I would advocate for, but I don't think it works ultimately. I assume you don't care. No, I don't. I don't care about Monkeybone. Zach, you don't care

about Monkeybone? I don't care about it, yeah. Okay, Monkeybone's going red. People are going to be mad. I don't care. The Mummy Return Zach, you don't care about Monkeybone? I don't care about it, yeah. Okay, Monkeybone's going red. People are going to be mad. I don't care. The Mummy Returns is just a perfectly adequate adventure sequel. I think that is also red, safe to say, though it does indicate, you know,

he still has a box office power, Brendan Fraser. Although this is about when it starts to wane. It starts to fade right here. It made $200 million in the U.S., $433 million worldwide. Very big. It's a real franchise that ultimately is used to launch the film career of Dwayne The Rock Johnson in The Scorpion King. Okay. 2002, The Quiet American.

You know, I didn't revisit this and I wanted to. This is an adaptation of a Graham Greene novel. I think this is the second film version of The Quiet American. It is, yeah. Co-starring Michael Caine. I don't remember it that well. I assume you revisited this. Yeah, and I think this is the other entrant

along with kind of gods and monsters into just being like, hey, adult drama. Prestige. Prestige thing. Here he is. He's doing it. He can do it, right?

And I think this film is actually kind of more successful as a movie than Gods and Monsters. I mean, among other things, this is sort of a spy story. Right. You're biased. I mean, give me a spy story starring a great actor like Brendan Fraser. You know, ultimately, like Gods and Monsters, is it great?

Does it sort of transcend the fact that it's, you know, a Graham Greene adaptation? You know, probably not. So, does it make in in here i don't know but i think it is in this filmography uh definitely like a worthy it's a good performance it's like an actually good movie um yellow yellow let's go yellow yeah um looney tunes back in action i'm not going to get either of you to care about this but You're going to try and talk about it for like an hour Maybe

This movie is directed by Joe Dante who made such films as Gremlins It's also written by Larry Doyle who wrote for The Simpsons and wrote I Love You Beth Cooper and a number of other really great TV shows and books over the years Used to work at Spy Magazine Very smart fellow This movie is basically a satire of Looney Tunes of other really great TV shows and books over the years. Used to work at Spy Magazine.

Very smart fellow. This movie is basically a satire of Looney Tunes. It's not actually a true blue Looney Tunes movie, and yet it also is. It was a massive bomb and essentially indicates the downturn in his career here.

Do we consider Space Jam a looney tunes movie yeah i think so okay just wondering i mean it's not pitched as such but it features bugs bunny and daffy duck and you know so yeah i think so i guess back action's not going in but there's there's a hive just putting that out there and and if if you follow his career this is like a very interesting point in time when I was doing the first story with him he told me this long

we were in like London told me this long complicated story of this movie I could you're rolling your eyes because I was in London because you were in London

just like the number of places that you've gotten to go it was during Christmas it was quite beautiful I know I was away from my family thank God really pissed about that

anyway and he told me he's a digressive talker is quite beautiful. I know. I was away from my family, thank God. I'm really, really pissed about that. Anyway. And he's a digressive talker and the best circus still moves. Very, very complicated story about this movie that I frankly had a lot of trouble following.

To the point where I was like, can you like explain to me what you're trying to tell me? Because you've been talking for like 25 minutes. I have no idea what you're talking about. He plays a stuntman in this movie. He plays Brendan Fraser's stuntman

in Looney Tunes Back in Action. That's the part that he's playing. And at the end, the real Brendan Fraser comes to set and he punches him. And in Brendan's narrative, he's like, what I really wanted to do was punch myself because I was sick of of myself, and I didn't think I deserved what I had, and I wasn't happy with what I was doing. And it kind of sets the tone for everything that comes next that we're about to talk about. So in his mind, this movie has a lot of meaning, and it's complicated, and it's about self-loathing,

and regret, and dissatisfaction, all wrapped up in a movie about Looney Tunes, which is a very Brendan thing. So what's interesting about this is the next film he appears in won Best Picture. Yeah. He plays District Attorney Rick Cabot in Crash. It's a pretty small role in this ensemble film,

which has now become widely understood to be one of the worst Best Picture winners of all time. His performance is fine. I think it's kind of neither. It's not terribly notable. And then after that, and I would say that that movie is not in just because it's not a good movie. And even though he's in it, he's the eighth lead of the film.

And so we don't have to include it. And then we can literally name 11 or 12 movies in a row that are not going in that are in this kind of fallow period for him. Journey to the End of the Night, The Last Time, The Air I Breathe, Journey to the Center of the Earth, which was a modest family film hit, but I don't think he's replaced in the sequel, in fact, by

Dwayne The Rock Johnson, which indicates how Hollywood viewed him at that time as kind of a disposable leading man. He's in The Mummy Tomb of the Dragon, Inkheart, Extraordinary Measures, Furry Vengeance, Standoff, A Case of You, Hairbrained, Pawn Shop Chronicles,

Gimme Shelter. Has anyone seen these films? Most of these films went largely unseen. Some of them were VOD. It's a long stretch. There's a big gap between 13 and 19 where he hardly works at all. And then he's in some films

called The Poison Rose, Line of Descent, The Secret of Karma. 13 and 19 where he hardly works at all and then he's in some films called the poison rose line of descent the secret of karma that's 15 years of work very little of which is not notable none of which is going to go in for our purposes um that's a long time to be away you know that's a lot longer than the travolta comp i made were five five years before Pulp Fiction, he was at least headlining Look Who's Talking, which made $150 million at the box office. So it was quite a precipitous fall, so to speak, from where he had stood at more or less the center of mainstream American movies. And then, as you said, he restarts with work on the affair and then on trust. And then he's in No Sudden Move and then The Whale. So, No Sudden Move, again, he's sort of like the sixth lead.

I agree. I like his part. I'm not so sure it's worthy of the Hall of Fame. There's some strong Soderbergh support here in this room. Are you going to make a case for it? Well, it doesn't start the comeback, but it's like the signal of the comeback. It's like the, oh yeah, Brendan Fraser. Also, we also all really liked that movie and don't talk about it enough.

It is good. And Trust is not a movie, but his part on Trust, which is like as a hostage negotiator who like wears a cowboy hat, is like a very, very charming, very, very solid, very, very solid, very,

very good performance. Yeah. He's good in that. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Um, that was this very strange thing because it came out after all the money in the world,

which was also about the Getty kidnapping. And so it was sort of like, do we really need two versions of the story? One of which is 10 hours long. Anyhow, I would say to me, no sudden move is a no, but the whale is obviously a yes.

Is it? I think so. Okay. That's the thing. He's going to be nominated for an Academy Award. Yeah. I think we've never not put somebody who is nominated for an Academy Award in film in the Hall of Fame. Yes, I have.

You have? I didn't put Steel Magnolias in Julia Roberts' Hall of Fame. Oh, yeah, but people think you were wrong. That was controversial. Well, you know what? It's my Hall of Fame, and I was right. What will you do when Julia Roberts comes on this show and confronts you about how you failed to recognize her strong work in that movie? We'll talk it out. I would love to hear her stories for making Steel

Magnolias. I dare you to challenge Julia Roberts one time when you meet her once. I think that I, Julia would respect it, don't you think? No, I don't. Okay. She's like, you're a podcaster, I'm Julia Roberts. Well, that's true. Zach, will you be joining us for the Challenge Julia Roberts episode? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I also have some questions for Julia Roberts. Some hard, skeptical questions about what she's been up to. Do you think that the whale should be in the Hall of Fame? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I really, I will say, I love this performance.

I get why people have issues with the movie. I think it's a fantastic performance. And I think it's cool to see. We talked about gods and monsters are quite American or even school ties to some extent as dramatic roles. They were dramatic roles. Maybe not the best script. Maybe not the best part. Just like, hey, you can play dramatic.

But this to me, again, think what you want about the movie. But he has a lot to do and he does a lot with it. You looked right at me as you said, think what you want about the movie, but he has a lot to do and he does a lot with it. You looked right at me as you said, think what you want about the movie. Should I look at the floor? I don't know. It was just like a little aggressive. Am I allowed to meet your eyes? Yeah. I was just like, whatever. It's fine. I don't care for Darren Aronofsky. You guys do. Here's what we've got in the Hall of Fame. Encino Man, School Ties, Airheads,

George of the Jungle, The Mummy, and The Whale are all green. That's six. We are sitting on two, four, six yellows. Those films are With Honors, The Scout, Gods and Monsters, Blast from the Past, and The Quiet American. And Bedazzled. And Bedazzled. Thank you. Now, I would suggest that Gods and Monsters and Blast from the Past should go in.

Should be in the Hall of Fame. I think so, too. Okay, great. I think they are signature films in his career. They're films that are still revisited that are available to be streamed right now. That matters. That's how we remember certain actors. Justice for Airheads.

Where Airheads is on streaming, I'm not sure. So that leaves us with two spots. The Quiet American, Bedazzled, The Scout, and With Honors. Are we really going to put With Honors in the Hall of Fame? I was just about to say it's With Honors. It is. Wow. It is.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean. Man, this is hard. I do think With Honors over The Scout. I know that you had a great relationship with The Scout. You work at The Ringer. I know.

This is a notable 90s sports film. I have great love for a lot of 90s sports films and 2000s sports films and 2010 the year sports films starring Brad Pitt. So don't tell me. But the Scout does not really have like the wider audience, you know? Doesn't it? It does. Steve Nebraska? Yeah, it does. Okay.

All right. Fine. Then put the Scout in. But you're not going to put With Honors in? I don't know. I'm torn here. If you guys want to ride for Bedazzled... Okay, so are we taking Gods and Monsters

over The Quiet American as the Brendan Fraser in support of the older actor doing quality work? I think it's like a... It's probably a better movie, more interesting part, more signature in his career.

Okay. So it's Bedazzled with Honors and the Scout. Now, when we do, when Zach and I launch our new show, the Elizabeth Hurley podcast, and we go through her career beat by beat, and then Instagram post by Instagram post. I can't wait to be on the Hugh Grant episode. And also

the, I have a lot of thoughts about that swimwear line um the good thoughts yeah yeah her swimwear is great that's my that's my review of elizabeth hurley's swimwear um gosh i'm not sure here i have i kind of think bedazzled too do you think bedazzled and with honors and leaving the scout out um um with honors and the scout i think have to fight it out for that last spot and i think bedazzled goes in at nine well i truly support bedazzled going in that's fantastic you guys are wild that's great this is it was like we were doing okay and then i realized that this is how

i choose i know you guys think we're almost done but i have an elizabeth hurley uh mailbag coming i've been gathering questions for some time. Okay. My instinct is to scout, but if you guys want to go with honors, we'll go with honors. That's the magic of democracy here on a three-person podcast. No, I'm switching. I'm going to scout. Look at that. You've been overruled.

This is wild. How often does this happen where we're out together in a social fashion? All the time. This is my life. And basically, I devised it so I only deal with you at work and I deal with him at home and never, and rarely shall the twain meet, you know? And I'm prepared. Okay. I think this is really strange, but that's fine. You've been bullied into accepting the scout.

You should watch it. Quality film. I did watch it. Okay. I just think With Honors lives on for better and worse. We're going to get some feedback on this. Yeah. Here's the hall of Fame for Brendan Fraser.

Encino Man, School Ties, Airheads, The Scout, George of the Jungle, Gods and Monsters, Blast from the Past, The Mummy,

Be Dazzled, and now, 22 years later, The Whale. Be Dazzled. You guys are wild. I do like Elizabeth Hurley. I think all my Be Dazzled heads

will come out and support Elizabeth. Yeah, and just like a real, if you were watching movies like at this time then this just it feels like of a piece

and of an era that we want to memorialize and save. Thank you to Elizabeth Hurley for her work. Any closing thoughts here? What do you think

of your first appearance on the big picture? You know it's just it's nice to finally be here. You want to do your corrections real fast? Oh yeah.

Okay. Real quick. Yeah. Lightning quick. Yeah. Lightning round. Every time you guys do like a mailbag or whatever and people are like, can you just talk about

a signature date night experience that you've had in the film? Amanda always is like, let me tell you about the worst date I ever went on to this film called Margaret. I just want to say

the masterpiece Margaret by Kenneth Lonergan was lost for a very long time did we will we ever see it we didn't know the actors in the film

are much younger than they were that's right this brief shining window in New York City showing in one theater for like two weeks

and they're like hey this might be the only time you ever get to see this film and I was like yo Amanda Dobbins

who I don't know that well let me let me let me curate a very special one of a kind experience for you and take you to see a masterpiece of cinema that we may never get to see again and I did that and now every time this subject comes up it's like let me tell you what the worst date ever went. I dispute your characterization, but... Justice for Margaret and justice for Zach. Continue. Number two.

Well, I gotta do three? Number two. Fine. We can do two. You guys love to... You know, one time I went and saw Creed a little bit before you guys.

Yeah, you did. Sometimes my job, I'm a long lead. You know, I see things far out. Saw Creed. I came back. I said Creed wasn't good. I admit that. That happened. I admit that. That happened. But now on this thing,

you're like, hey, Mr. Unreliable here. There was one other example to me. The other example was Sicario. That was the one where I was like, what movie did you see? Because I saw an incredible film. And you did not see it that way. That's right. That was actually the one where I was like what movie did you see because I saw an incredible film oh yeah and you did not

see it that way that's right that was actually the one because Creed that's a little close to your heart Philly's complicated Sicario I was like

this bangs this is a five star film and you were like it doesn't work yeah I was wrong about that okay alright but I was like

I was wrong twice we're talking about hundreds of movies I'm batting like 95. Okay. But again, if you listen to the show, you would never know.

You're a man of great taste. I would never suggest that you're not. You just gotta, every once in a while, you're left and I'm right. Look, I'm like, I'm in the theater by myself,

you know, watching a man get murdered and tortured. And it's just, it's just hard to know how to feel when you're in that dark room all by yourself

and the man is being murdered and how to feel when you're in that dark room all by yourself. And the man is being murdered and tortured. Is that you listening to episodes of The Big Picture? Well, when I run out of episodes of Philly Special, then, yeah. Well, Zach Barron, thank you. I love you guys. Thanks for being here, buddy. You're the best. Amanda, we did it again.

We did it again. What are we doing? Oh, yeah. We're talking about Bardo later this week. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I was thinking about re-watching all of Alejandro Gonzalez Inarritu's films. What do you think about that?

Do you have that kind of time right now? No, I don't actually at all. Okay. I'm in the midst of dev talks and reviews. I thought that we were doing performances along with Bardo. We are doing that as well. We're also going to do the actors who won 2022. And maybe the actors who lost.

Maybe a couple of them lost. Brendan Fraseran frazier didn't lose uh also not a loser the winner bobby wagner wags thanks so much for your work on today's episode you're the man um please stay tuned to the big picture we'll see you later this week you