The Big Picture - The Surprising ‘A Quiet Place: Day One’ and Kevin Costner’s Big Bet on ‘Horizon: An American Saga — Chapter 1’

Episode Date: June 28, 2024

Sean and Amanda recap the third installment of the ‘Quiet Place’ franchise—the Lupita Nyong’o–starring ‘A Quiet Place: Day One’—which surprised both of them with its scale and quality (1:00). Then, they are joined by Chris Ryan to discuss Kevin Costner’s gigantic gamble, ‘Horizon: An American Saga — Chapter 1’ (25:00). The trio dig into its weirdness, its Western tropes and subversions, and whether it stands even the slightest chance of not bombing. To watch episodes of ‘The Big Picture,’ head to https://www.youtube.com/@RingerMovies. Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guest: Chris Ryan Senior Producer: Bobby Wagner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Try it today and get up to $75 in PC Optimum Points. Visit Superstore.ca to get started. I'm Sean Fennessey. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is the Big Picture, a conversation show about manifest destiny and apocalypse now. Today on the show, we'll be discussing the weekend's two major releases, a franchise hit, and maybe the start of a new franchise. We'll dig into A Quiet Place Day One and Kevin Costner's long-awaited Horizon in American Saga Chapter One. Chris Ryan will join us for our very spirited Horizon discussion.

I'm going to pull back the curtain here. We've already recorded the Horizon part of this conversation just for, you know, schedule reasons. And I've been thinking a lot about our Horizon conversation since we recorded it. What a tease for the second half of the show. I guess so. I mean, definitely we recorded it. What a tease for the second half of the show. I guess so. I mean, definitely listen to it. Two men desperately trying to convince a woman this is okay. No, that was not even it.

It was all the three of us just being like, huh, all right. That was the vibe. It was, but everyone, it's a cultural artifact for sure. So if you have three hours and money for the tickets and childcare, or not because you made better choices than we did, go see Horizon just to know.

They're an interesting contrast, these two movies that we're talking about today, because Horizon, I feel like, has been a running gag on the show for a very long time. Sure, yeah. And A Quiet Place, this is the third installment of the series, I call it A Quiet Place Day One, is a movie that I just wasn't thinking about at all. I just, I had no anticipation for this movie. I had no negative feelings towards it. I just was like, that will happen. I'm sure we'll see it and discuss it. And I don't really know what to think. Lo and behold, this is one of the great surprises of the year for me. I thought this movie was really exceptional.

So maybe it's because I had no expectations. Sure. I thought it was very good. And I thought it was very effective. I was really moved by it for 45 minutes of this movie, which I saw like on Thursday night with a preview crowd. Most people I've seen in a movie theater in 2024. But that's also because i went at a normal time um and for the first 45 minutes i was like i just want to go home and hold my son i am i'm i am

moved and upset and stressed out and it is hitting all of the both like the terror and emotional sensors that it is supposed to uh in a really really effective way i think it gets a little sentimental towards the end it does you know and they're like there are two choices that i was like all right but i would argue this is a historically a very sentimental franchise you know there are the the big moments of anguish and pain and reflection and memory from the first two movies are also pretty saccharine so it's a little bit part of the design, I think, of these stories. It is an apocalypse movie after all. Yeah, I think that's true.

But so we'll do the basic premise, which is, well, it's a quiet place day one. So it's the day all of the alien monsters who track everyone by sound show up. And this is all in the trailer, I it's they they show up in this case in manhattan yes new york city and so we are in in manhattan and lupita nyong'o is there and if you don't want to know anything don't listen to this podcast um we won't spoil the ending of the movie or anything like that but we'll talk about the plot this is revealed in the first 10 minutes but also i wasn't paying that much attention so it was new to me when I saw it. Okay.

Which is she is terminally ill and she's living in hospice. And I was like, oh. And as soon as you learn that, you're like, oh, okay, so I see what this is going to be. And I think that's actually a very smart choice. about the realization that you're going to die and about death and sickness and acceptance and your last moments and all of these things that I think are very smart and affecting choices within the context of, okay, so what happens if you're a part of, you're like day one of the apocalypse and you know you're going to die and you know probably most everyone else is too. And you know probably most everyone else is too. And you know the world is kind of ending. What would that be like?

So she is in hospice. She goes to Manhattan with her whatever. Yeah, with her hospice care group to see a marionette show. And then the attacks start. And so it becomes sort of a survival story i mean she is like trying to survive and she she has a goal and she has her own um there's something she wants there's something that she wants and that she wants before she's going to die which she knows and which she also knew at the beginning of the movie but um it's... Then another character comes in and...

They forge an unlikely bond. Yeah. The way you do in the apocalypse. The way you do. And so you're right that the other movies have a lot of very saccharine. They're very Reitman nuclear family coded. Mm-hmm.

But there's something that is like... We have hundreds of years of culture and tradition of like being nuclear family coded, you know, that like instantly means something. And this is just like a random stranger who shows up from, from Wales, from no Kent, from Kent, from Kent and a cat who that's the nuclear family of this film is Lupita Nyong'o's character's cat right she carries with her through much of the film and who is routinely in danger this very

feels like a very strong homage to aliens which is a very similar story to aliens where one woman is moving through the apocalypse and all the men

around her are getting killed and she stumbles on a kind of found family it's not this is not the most original movie I've ever seen.

No, no, no. I don't think that's a strong case for it. But I would also say that like this found family does strain credulity at times. Well, you know, in a way that when you're working with like a nuclear family, we are willing to give the benefit of the doubt. I thought that part of it worked for me personally, because I think if you found it. you're working with like a nuclear family we are willing to give the benefit of the doubt i i thought that part of it worked for me personally because i think if you found the cat is making too much noise you know like just like stop right there you know i do want to talk in a separate portion of this discussion about you know the first film has this problem in a big way where there are a

lot of things where you're just like you just wouldn't do things that way you just wouldn't let your two-year-old walk behind you when you were when you're walking back from your purchases at the pharmacy you remember that famous opening sequence of the quiet place you know that's that just wouldn't happen and there's some things in this movie you just wouldn't let happen so stressed out thinking about trying to keep nox quiet for any i just don't think it would work out you know and that was true for my family and that was part of the power of this movie which which is, you know, there's this thing of being like, well, we know ultimately what's going to happen. And so you're living in this fear of like, oh, God, for how long am I keeping this person from making or in my imagination? How long am I keeping Knox from making a sound before the worst happens?

And I'm like trying to build an ideal circumstance in which this like weird, you flower petal monster comes in you just you just have to imagine the reason that the character stuff worked for me in this movie and the the other critical character who comes along is played by an actor named joseph quinn who is not super famous yet but is about to be in gladiator 2 and the fantastic four and bobby informs us that he played a mentor role on a season of The Stranger Things, at which point I stopped listening. Yeah, I haven't gotten that far in Stranger Things. I'm sure I definitely will.

I definitely will catch up with every episode of Stranger Things. Throw to Gen Z. Tell us what you know, Bobby. Should I just remain silent on this one because I'm not Gen Z? What's going on here? Are they done with Stranger Things? No, they're not done. No, but it has been like four years

it feels like since they put something out they they filmed it right because maya hawk has been talking about how she was on it and was like helping the other kids reach closure or something filmed it i do know there's one more season and i know that the episodes are all like one hour and 37 minutes long and that they're all have the budgets of a quiet place day one um anyway joseph quinn you may have seen him in stranger things you're going to be seeing a lot 37 minutes long and that they all have the budgets of A Quiet Place Day 1. Anyway, Joseph Quinn, you may have seen him in Stranger Things. You're going to be seeing a lot more of him. He is a man who comes along and encounters Lupita Nyong'o's character. He plays Caracalla in Gladiator 2.

Do you know who that is? I don't. Marcus Aurelius Antonius, better known by his nickname Caracalla, was Roman emperor from 198 to 217 AD. Oh, interesting. So he's in the Joaquin Phoenix role. It seems like it. Interesting.

Okay, that's great. I thought he was really good in this movie. I thought he was a compelling presence. And this is a very specific kind of acting because as you said, you can't really talk. There's not a lot of dialogue. There's not a lot of communication other than writing things down

or making eyes at someone to indicate what you want. And he and Lupita Nyong'o, I thought had had good chemistry I thought yeah um you know it's a little ridiculous because it's an apocalypse movie but movies like this the whole time I was watching the movie when I wasn't feeling that tension that you were talking about was this could have gone so wrong you know like a movie like this with like too many characters too big of you sitting in sitting in the war room with generals talking about how to attack the creatures, that is not what this movie is. This is a very contained story that is focused on basically two people and a cat for its entire runtime.

And that was a really, really good choice because it doesn't mean you don't get the monsters pursuing people and killing humans and having these moments. You do get that stuff but you stay with these characters the whole time and so for example like the sound design is critical to all these movies the sound design in this movie again is very very good it's a different form of it this is not a farmhouse it's new york city the movie opens with this note about how new york city is loud and represents like a certain number of decibels and so it's like a constant you know

scream can we do a spoiler section a little bit? Because I had some logistical questions. I know, I know, I know. That's what I'm saying. In a little bit, because that sets up

some logistical things, which I think the movie actually handles really well. For the most part. I mean, listen. I have some thoughts too. Like, obviously, like as soon as you're walking

in rubble, you know, there's sound and that's game over. The whole movie movie i was like creaky door yeah creaky door like how many doors are being opened in this movie one creaky door you're dead and and just like are we whatever we'll get into it but in terms of to your point instead of doing the war room and so many people they do pretty concisely and effectively convey what's going on and what you know in the

moment and what you need to do. And how the world is reacting. Yes, exactly. And I thought that that, even if like we have follow-up questions, that's because they did a good enough job that I'm like, okay, I'm interested and I'd like to know more. I'm totally with you. I was pretty impressed. I think that movies like this are hard

to pull off. This is the third movie in a franchise. It's a prequel. The other thing about it, I thought it was quite sad. Yeah. Which is an interesting place for the third movie in this franchise and a summer blockbuster to go. I was like, oh, this is… Kind of brave? Yeah.

How it ends? Sort of. But it's's not like and then here's what happens next you know what i mean like that's it's not giving you the trappings of that kind of a movie yeah i mean it has like slight slight slight slight back to black syndrome in the very last moment in a way that i was like come on yeah i i thought it was it was a little a little a little cheap but i liked that it wasn't like, she survives to do this thing now. It went to the place that it needed to go and that made sense. So, you know, it's just like, there are a few other tonal moments where I was like, I would have made a different choice.

But I agree. It's surprisingly good. One other thing that I thought was good about it before we start getting into some details that people may want to skip if they haven't seen it yet is this movie was shot on a back lot in England, Warner's back lot in England. I thought it was a pretty good approximation of Manhattan

for a back lot shoot. Well, yeah, apparently also in the Warner's back lot in England, they have Manhattan cities as they do. Pre-built.

Pre-built, as they do here in the Burbank lot where we've gotten lost several times but still I mean the thing about Manhattan is like it's scale

and this is a movie that needs scale because you've got these creatures crawling all over skyscrapers and I thought it was pretty credible and the effects

were pretty good yeah yeah so in all I think I don't know I know this movie is going to be a big success and it's the reason

why we're talking about this movie first in this episode because a lot of people are going to go see it it really could have gone sideways the first two films were surprising successes all of a sudden this is one of the sturdiest franchises now about this movie first in this episode because a lot of people are going to go see it it really could have gone sideways the first two films were surprising successes all

of a sudden this is one of the sturdiest franchises now right this movie's probably 50 million dollars interested to hear how everyone who's like yeah quiet place one and two response to this melancholy film yes like in this meditation on dying yeah yeah yeah it's a good point it's and like i may not have a great cinema score. Yeah, I was having a conversation with a friend who doesn't often go to see movies and she was like, oh, should we go

see A Quiet Place Part 3? And I was like, I haven't seen it yet. Not really sure. And she was like, this looks less quiet than the other two. So maybe.

It is and it isn't. And that's what I said. I was like, it is and it isn't. But I do wonder, we had different expectations than I think a lot of people who like die hard show up to see part three of a horror franchise. What do you think is the difference in our expectations?

We were just kind of like, is this a good idea? Do we need to, you know? Right. As opposed to like, let's go. Yeah. But you get a lot of monsters. Like, it's not like they don't pull punches on a lot of that stuff too. I was startled a couple times.

Yeah. So Michael Sarnoski, I haven't even mentioned his name, he directed this movie. He co-wrote it with John Krasinski who of course was the director of the first two films.

And Sarnoski directed Peg, the Nicolas Cage indie from a few years ago. I had him on the show. Really thoughtful guy. Honestly, when I saw the news

that he signed up for this, I winced. I was like ugh really man like you made this really strange film about a chef

who goes on like a rampage that I thought was a lot of fun Nick Cage gave us a great performance in that movie you're gonna sign on

for the third installment in A Quiet Place that sounds like such a bummer prove me wrong good choice like I think this probably now

allows him to make a bigger and more interesting movie after this. So kudos to him. It's really impressive. So there's a thing that Lupita's character wants. And maybe we'll get into it.

Let's put a spoiler warning up now. Because I really wanted to know this, even as I was watching the movie. I was like, well, I wonder what Amanda's version of this is. Yeah. So spoilers going forward for the next few minutes. Lupita Nyong'o's character, desperately before she dies,

before the world ends, wants to get a slice of pizza from Patsy's Pizzeria in Harlem. Right. Patsy's Pizzeria, a place very near and dear to me. I've been there many, many times with our friend John Caramonica. That's a place he and I used to go to all the time. Not necessarily the one that she went to. I think we went to the one in the 80s.

But nevertheless, love Patsy's. For me, it was very easy to be like, I get it. This New York pizza means a lot. So just to be clear, also the reason that she needed to go to the one in Harlem was because her dad, who was a jazz pianist, she would go see her dad perform and then they would go next door to Patsy's. Because I did have that moment of like, why can't you go to the one in the 80s? Or I believe at one point there was one like under the Brooklyn Bridge, which has- Yeah, I think there were like four or five. Yeah, exactly.

I was like, if Patsy's is what we need, but it's this very specific location. Yes. In like in her defense and in the defense of- And she needs to go from Chinatown to Harlem during the apocalypse. Yeah, which also she gets to really quickly. Yeah.

And it's like at one point you see a street sign for Essex Street and then suddenly you're in Harlem and you're just like, well. Also, at some point she randomly finds the home that she hasn't lived in for some time because she's been in hospice care. But they managed just to make it back to her apartment. Yeah. To look for medicine. Seemed like a good place to hang apartment. Yeah, yeah. To look for medicine. Seemed like a good place to hang out. Yeah. I would have stayed there probably.

Speaking of looking for medicine, so they should, I mean. That big bay window, that was great. No, it seemed like a great place. And obviously it would not just like be sitting empty. Right. You know, in like New York real estate and Manhattan. Also, so she's, I think she has cancer because she does a poem at the beginning about she's a poet yes like we said she's in hospice so they make a point of showing you that she is using

fentanyl patches which then at one point the joseph quinn character goes and retrieves for her which is very heroic but like i think we all know those patches would be under lock and key and like a really really intense way do you know what i'm saying under lock and key in, like, a really, really intense way. Do you know what I'm saying? It's a very fair point. I mean, you, like, can't get deodorant at Target now without, like, you know, waving, like, 45 signs for people. It's like, I think we all understand that.

But that's okay. That's all right. It's the apocalypse. Honestly, a great call. Thank you so much. There are a number of moments, as I said, like the creaking doors thing occurred to me a lot. There's a lot of different noises that you would make in the day-to-day execution of just trying

to go a hundred blocks. You're herding a fucking cat around with cat food in the tins. And I was like, okay, from a noise perspective, what's going to be better, tins or like the crunching of the dry cat food? Good cat though. I like the cat. Yeah, it was good. It was good. You're not a cat person. I was just like, this is not plausible. And the number. I like the cat. Yeah, it was good. It was good. You're not a cat person. I was just like, this is not plausible. And the number of times that the cat is gone and then finds them

in the rubble of Manhattan in an apocalypse. That's how cats do. That's how they do. I grew up with so many cats, man. I understand. They always come back. But also like the cat

is at one point in Chinatown and then suddenly knows where Harlem is. The cat finds the apartment before Lupita does. Great sense of the world. Okay. These creatures are fantastical.

You understand what I'm saying? I do. I'm so glad that you put this quote about the cat in our outline. This is the funniest thing I read about the movie. You want to read it? Yeah. The actress, in this case Lupita Nyong'o, had asked Sarnoski, the director, if they could change the animal due to a fear of cats,

which she ultimately overcame with cat therapy. What the fuck is cat therapy? What is that? Is that like a cat wearing glasses with a notepad, like asking her questions about her trauma? I feel like it's more like a cat cafe, you know? Cat therapy is my favorite thing. It is also, Lupita's like, yeah, sure, I'd love to be in this movie, But like... Cat therapy is my favorite thing. It's just also...

Lupita's like, yeah, sure, I'd love to be in this movie, but one of the two other characters, can we just totally, you know? That's pretty good. Because I'm absolutely terrified of cats. That's pretty good. I would just like to say Lupita, who for whatever reason has not become the massive star

that I think many of us expected her to be after 12 Years a Slave and Black Panther. And us, yeah. And us. Just put her in more of the stuff like this like she's great she's so good she just holds the screen like we were talking about Costner and McQueen and all those guys she's the exact same thing she barely talks in this movie and the whole time you're like locked on what wherever she's going whatever she's doing she's a really wonderful screen presence okay so can we talk about Manhattan and the bridges for a bit? Yeah. All right. So, as we said, everyone's in Manhattan,

and they get a radio signal announcement pretty quickly to avoid the bridges. And then we see all the bridges being taken out. Exploded. Because we know, and are reminded, I think succinctly and well that the creatures can't swim right so is the implication there that they're just like good luck to everyone in manhattan you were we're just containing you is the implication that the animals aren't elsewhere because you see a globe where she's noted all the other places. The cities, yeah. So, like, they're on the mainland. Yes. I mean, you may recall in the second film that they...

So, Jimen Honsu is in this film, and he was in the second movie. And so, that's the connective tissue between the second film and this prequel. And Jimen Honsu's character, I think, discovers an island where they create a kind of, like, Valhalla for the remaining civilization right and that's where Emily Blunt's character ultimately goes in that second film

and I think the idea is that you know it's a communication to humans that they need to find a boat to take them out of South Street seaport and once everyone gets on the boat they can go find a safe place where the where the creatures cannot get to. And I think in the second film, like, a creature boards a boat and they don't realize it and that's how they bring

the monster to the island that leads to the... I didn't rewatch the second film, but anyway. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, if you went to,

you know, Lummi Island... Also, I mean, they get back from Patsy's to South Street Seaport. Very fast. Just, like, incredible. Alarmingly fast.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we don't know how much time is going by. I don't know. It's unclear what's happening. Right. I did enjoy the sequence where she finally gets the pizza and they show her, you know, that profile shot of her just taking a bite of pizza.

Because when all you want in the world is pizza. Yeah. And you get pizza. That is true. It is the purest rush. Yeah. There's not a drug in the universe that could create the feeling for me

that I really want a slice of cheese pizza and I got one. It's beautifully conveyed in the movie. So were you going to ask me what my version of Patsy's is? Yes. What is your Patsy's thing? Do not say the teacup.

No, no, no. I would try to go swimming in the ocean. Well, you're in luck. I know. And that would work out for me. That would be great. I would want to get swimming in the ocean well you're in luck I know and that would work out for me that would be great I would want to get to the beach you know okay

Coney Island seems a little far I mean you could go wherever you want Rockaways yeah no no no I know you could go all the way to the Pacific

if you wanted to yeah yeah yeah head down to the Gulf of Mexico well the thing that I would want to do before I know I'm gonna die by like weird aliens

it's yeah I like swim in the ocean. Well, I mean, besides like see my family, you know, they're already dead. Everyone's dead. God, that little kid hiding under the fountain, like the three-year-old,

that was hard for me to watch. I would, that was excruciating. I was like, if this kid is in the whole movie, I might have to leave. I actually felt so similarly when they disappeared. I was like, great.

Thank you. I was like, I just like, I hope they're okay. I actually felt so similarly when they disappeared. I was like, great. Thank you. I was like, I hope they're okay. It's the most cliche, dumb, annoying parents conversation, but that shit is real when you're like, oh, all I can think about

is my child in these circumstances of this dumb alien invasion monster. Yeah. Nevertheless, pretty fun movie. Yeah. It's good. I was happy. I hope people check it out.

We said we're doing spoilers. I mean, that song choice at the end. Come on. It wasn't good. It was bad. I wish it was happy. I hope people check it out. We said we're doing spoilers. I mean, that song choice at the end. Come on. It wasn't good. It was bad. I wish it was better. It felt like a very normie kind of a choice. And just trying to do the, like, it's okay thing.

I'm with you 100%. I didn't like that as well. Also, magic. Come on. Absolutely wrong. That part is amazing. I loved that part so much. The marionettes and the so much the marionettes

and the magic the marionettes were cool I was like quiet performance that's a brilliant idea to bring that into that movie I thought

that they were gonna have her sit at the piano and put the iPod on then and have her dad's music and have that moment which to me

would have been nicer than this rando just being like close up magic there's nothing cooler in the universe just putting that out there for you okay great conversation let's go to our conversation now with cr about horizon well chris ryan is here and he's here for a very important reason.

It's because we're talking about the film Horizon, colon, an American saga, M-Dash, chapter one. This is the long-awaited first installment. You've used a hyphen and not an M-Dash in the doc, just so you know. What an incredible error. Jesus Christ. I like that you specified M-Dash, just so you know. What an incredible error. Jesus Christ. I like that you specified M-dash, but, you know. I probably just copy and pasted that from somewhere, so maybe it isn't an M-dash, but

if it isn't, it should be. It should be. That's my take. This is Kevin Costner's Big Gamble. It's a movie we've been talking about. It has been talked about in Hollywood for a very long time. In fact, its origins are over 20 years ago when he wanted to start making it. It's long awaited.

And it's here. And we've seen it. And we've seen the film. Yeah. We've seen part one. You haven't seen part two, have you? I have not seen part two, which is going to be released in six weeks. This is an incredibly unusual.

For my 40th birthday. Yes, quite a gambit. We'll find out how it works out. We'll be all sitting together. No, we don't. Holding hands. Because they're parts three and four well maybe maybe currently costner is attempting to raise all of the necessary

funds for this film and for the second film he has poured according to the reporting from our pal zach baron who just so happens to be married to amanda 38 million dollars of his own funds into the film it's a western it's a classical Western in many ways. It is a multi-part, multi-generation story about the expansion of the West and the settling of a town that is meant to be kind of a representative story about what happened in America.

Chris, did you like the movie Horizon? So you remember last time I was on The Big Picture, just a few days ago when we were talking about the bike riders, and I was like, there are certain things that I have unlimited interest in. Turns out the West is also one of those things. Yeah, we know. I like spaghetti Westerns, romantic Westerns, military Westerns, TV Westerns, which is helpful.

Lots of different kinds of Westerns. And so I liked Horizon. What is it that you like about westerns break it down for me I think that the scenery is just fucking gorgeous it's quite beautiful I enjoy the fulfillment of

and playing with archetypes okay as a guy I just you love when a man has a gun and he shoots it at another guy yeah but sometimes he misses yeah

you know and there's a damsel sometimes there's a rule of like when you can draw your gun and he shoots it at another guy. Yeah, but sometimes he misses. Yeah. And there's a damsel sometimes. And there's a rule of when you can draw your gun. There's all sorts of stuff going on. What about when there's a saloon and there's a saloon keeper? Yes. And mining is also incredibly interesting when you bring that into play. Okay.

Or the building of railroads or the policing of said lands. Yeah. I'm interested in all of it. A train robbery. And I got all of it in this movie. You sure did. Every different kind of Western that you robbery and I got all of it in this movie you sure did every different kind of western that you can possibly imagine

is inside of Horizon except for the story of the like a story there's not a story like it's just yeah

I mean yeah except for a story there are a lot of stories there's tons of there's tons of like plots but there's not really a story in this movie yet and that is well

a huge it's a big ask it's a big ask for a lot of people out there i amanda and i saw it together um i think we sat in separate rows but at various points i felt who smelled is that was there because someone smelled bad because we both knew it was a three-hour movie and we needed room to spread out and we needed room to talk if I wanted to go to the bathroom. I didn't want to have to step over every time. If I had joined you, I would have sat right next to Amanda. And I would have just looked at her the entire time the film was running. What did you think?

You and I are very similar in this way. I have a lot of affection for Westerns. We were talking a lot about the Westerns of Kevin Costner on the podcast. And any time I started talking, I could feel Amanda like starting to slowly melt into like a puddle form. Yeah. Because he's a very, very traditionalist Western filmmaker, but also,

I think he thinks he's more subversive than he actually is. And I think that this movie thinks it's maybe a little bit more subversive than it actually is. But there are moments in the movie where he's scratching a very particular itch where there's just a showdown and a gunfight

between two guys and he really knows how to shoot block and cut those sequences and i'm like this fucking rule it's really funny because i i went home from seeing the three hour uh horizon part one and my husband zach baron had seen it already many months ago because he was doing a story on Kevin Costner. And we were rehashing it together. And he very excitedly was just like, but when the two dudes show down, you know, in the mining town and it's Costner and that's other guy. And they're just walking up the hill. And I was just like, dudes love it when dudes are just showing, you know, have a showdown. Yeah.

I think that, you know, there's effectively four different storylines in the movie. There's a kind of a prologue that introduces us to the ultimate destination, I think, of the story, which is this town of Horizon. Oh, and that's the little kid in the glasses who's doing the surveying. Yes. That was a cute kid. Yes. And that's kind of like a flashback. Well, I know.

It's tough. There is a town that is raided by a Native American tribe that is being forced to relocate. Many of the residents are killed and the survivors are sort of relocating with members of the army that are helping them move. They're going to a cavalry force. A cavalry force. Yeah. Can we call that the Sienna Miller plotline? That's the Sienna Miller plotline. Thank you.

The second plotline is Kevin Sienna Miller plotline? That's the Sienna Miller plotline. Thank you. The second plotline is Kevin Costner's plotline, which is taking place. And that's sort of in San Pedro area. That's in Wyoming. The first plot. The first plot is in

San Pedro. The second plot is in Wyoming. The second plot is Kevin Costner. We should have a map. We should have a map. It's a good idea.

It should be right there. As far as things that this movie was lacking. We should have a map. We should have a map. It's a good idea. It should be right there. As far as things that this movie was lacking, it was maybe a map. I mean, for me, like a very, very detailed family tree with also names and photos so that I could keep the various guys apart. Just like a little Raiders kind of like,

now we're here. I'm getting into plot description as I say what I think about the movie. Right. Because I feel differently about every part of the movie. And there are some parts that I think work really well and others that I don't think work that well. And, you know, the third part is a classical wagon train story where Luke Wilson's character, I'll say that's a Luke Wilson plot. Luke Wilson's character is moving through Montana.

And the point of the movie is that there's going to be this convergence, ultimately, in this story. In this town that is called Horizon. And you know that because you are shown the poster advertising the possibilities of Horizon. There's a mysterious figure. We don't know who was behind almost mythologizing the eventual settlement of this town. So those are all of the pieces of the puzzle. You forgot one piece. The Native American portrayal, too?

Yes, there is that. But then there is also another group of dusty guys with a kid. Right. Who show up, and the kid is at the very beginning. Right, that's kind of an offshoot of the Sienna Miller story. Yes. But I couldn't remember. I did not connect him with that.

So I thought it was just like a four. Remember, I walked out and I was like, who's that guy? But there's a kid and he meets up with another group of individuals who are possibly threatening Horizon. Potentially. And they are also a group of, essentially of scalp hunters. And so, you know, there's five different moving storylines throughout this film.

Right. And it's a three-hour movie. Yeah. And it feels it's three hours. Yeah, and Kevin Costner doesn't show up for... Until one hour. And the way you isolated them with the Sienna Miller plotline, the Kevin Costner plotline, and the Luke Wilson plotline was accurate in the sense that that corresponds quite literally to one hour chunks of the movie.

I did sue me, but I checked my phone just for the time when Kevin Costner showed up because I wanted to know how far into the movie. You should be careful because Costner might sue you because he needs to make his money back. And it's literally in an hour and Luke Wilson shows up in two hours. Comes at it two hours like almost to the minute.

Yeah. So you can talk a lot about this movie's pacing or lack thereof but there is structure within it and it is organized sort of around

those three major storylines. And so because of that, I'm curious if you guys agree with this. No one asked me what I think of the movie, by the way. What did you think of the movie? I didn't dislike it. Yeah.

But the way that you're grounding it in plot is my response was like, I don't know who half those people are when I left. So basically what happens is when Kevin Costner's character arrives in our head, first of all, the movie obviously gets a huge jolt of star power

because it's fucking Costner and he's like doing this iconic mythological photographing of himself. But there's kind of an epiphany that happens shortly into his run where you're like, oh, they're not all going to meet during this movie.

And I think that that is really worth talking about because this movie makes How the West Was Won look like Michael Clayton in terms of the tautness of its plotting and the urgency with which it moves in any one direction. I am in awe of the fact that this is what he chose to do and I'm totally here for it because I just really love watching horses and cowboys.

Like I really don't mind, but it is like the lack of like, we need to end this with something so that people like feel like they completed a movie instead of an episode of television is crazy. So I wanted to talk a little bit about how the West was won as the comparison point. Cause that's a movie that he talks about all the time as the like originating film that made him want to make Westerns that he loves.

It's a really unusual movie. It's a movie shot for the Cinerama Dome in a very specific shooting style. It has three different directors, three different storylines. It's two hours and 40 minutes. It's Henry Hathaway, John Ford. George Marshall. And George Marshall. And three

different groups of characters and very star-studded, you know, like Henry Fonda and Jimmy Stewart and, you know, Carl Malden and, you know, like lots and lots of people. The Costner Mount Rushmore. Yes. A lot of the strong white men of yore. And the difference between

that movie and this movie and this series of movies is that that's a movie that is very purposefully three distinct divisions of a critical part of the settling and expansion of America. This is one guy who's like, I've got 12 hours of characters in me. Yeah. And in one hour installments. Yes. That I'm going to release close, you know, in three-part chunks over the span of... It is quite literally structured as TV.

It is TV. And it looks beautiful at times, though I'm having a very hard time forgiving him for shooting this Western on location in Utah on digital. I hate that he did that. Why didn't you raise the money for the film, Sean? It's every dollar counts. I wish he would have just shot it on film.

It seems like a small thing, but I think it would have been a big thing for making the movie feel less like TV. Yes. And he's been on TV shows in the West, shot on digital for a long time. And when I look at Yellowstone, I'm like, this is like a cheap soap opera.

It's shot on location in Montana, but who cares? It doesn't look that good. Yeah, I mean, I think there's also something to the visual language of the movie like like how the rest was west was run how the west was run one like you said cinerama so that it looks basically like it can really only be properly viewed in this one kind of experience and even for years afterwards i think home movie home video or d or DVD versions of it would box it way in. This is like, there's no reason this couldn't have been on Paramount Plus. It's quite strange.

I mean, I know that he loves movies and he obviously is fighting for movies, but he's also just spent the last five years not making movies. You know, he's been making a TV show. Yeah. So, you know, narrativizing it is really interesting. But you're right. Like the way that he is framing the stories, it's not as though

he's consistently cutting hard between, like, intercutting between storylines to show us the variations between these characters.

It's happening a little bit in the movie, but, like, once we get all three stories revealed, we see some intercutting, but,

and it's so hard to grade the movie in any meaningful way because while I was watching it, I had a good time. I liked it. I liked some of the characters. I really especially liked the wagon train

sequence and the fact that it came so late in the film. I feel like this is the best Luke Wilson has been in a long time. Got really excited for Chris when Luke Wilson showed up because I'd forgotten he was in it. And I was just like, hey, it's your guy. Huge figure stock. Oracle of Omaha calls another great American stock. Well, it's not too late to be Harrison Ford for Luke Wilson. But I left at the end of it.

And of course, as it's been reported, it does end with this sort of like next on horizon trailer sequence. This was when Amanda and I psychically left her. He turned around and I was just like,

what is happening? You know, it's not a spoiler to say that the film just teases what's happening in chapter two at the end of Chapter 1. But not with a title card that says next in the next installment of Horizon. It just starts a long trailer for Horizon Part 2.

What do you think of that choice? I was already confused because I didn't know who that little boy was. Yep. And then and had no sense geography of where we, where is Horizon? Arizona. Arizona, yeah, I think so. Okay.

I mean, all of it's very beautiful. Then I was just amused. There were a lot of horses riding in that. And I do like that. I like the horses. It felt very much to me like the Mad Men teasers at the end of the episodes where it'd be like, there'd be one guy who'd be like, she said what be like, there'd be one guy who'd be like,

she said what? And then there'd be another guy who'd be like, don't go over there. And then like everything was this completely disconnected, decontextualized series of sequences. But it's funny because of the way it's presented like at the end of the trailer or the end of the preview,

like the reveal is that Giovanni Ribisi is... Oh yeah, that's right. I forgot about that. Is the landowner or might just be working at a printing, that's right. I forgot about that. Is the landowner or might just be working at a printing press printing up posters. I can't tell.

Yes, we don't know. Oh, so he might be like the... Kittredge, or not Kittredge, the guy who owns all of Horizon. Oh, that's right, because they like very dramatically hand this person like silhouetted in the window,

like the poster. And it's the Horizon poster we've been seeing. And then I was like, is that Giovanni Ribisi? And then all the lights went up. It's very funny because the movie

has this very big cast. And in the first installment, like some people die. And I was like, oh, wow, that person's just gone now in the first 48 minutes of this movie.

But a lot of the men in the movie that have been cast are guys who are like, I don't trust that guy. Sure. You know, it's like, it's Jeff Fahey, it's Michael Rooker, it's michael rooker jimmy will patten jimmy james russo who's you know

we did not mention him during the hall of fame but james russo appears in like almost every movie that kevin costner's directed danny houston of course legendary like don't trust him guy thomas hayden church is going to be in the next one and it's kind of like he's trying to create like and then there were none Agatha Christie's style Western thing too, but it doesn't totally congeal because the movie is just too big. Like it's too,

there's no way to get all of these characters close enough to each other to make the story seem coherent yet. And so to release a movie like this, which is basically just a prologue. It's like a series of character character descriptions for the future movies. I don't I couldn't I can't think of another movie like this. I mean, you remember what your reaction was when you realized it was really was going to be Dune part one.

You know, like you were watching Dune and you're like, oh, they're not. You're right. You know, you're right. And but like we already knew that this was going to be an episodic saga. But I don't think I was prepared for

the way in which it was going to be written and executed on a level where it was like, oh, we're getting three or four movies within this three-hour block of time.

Yeah. Yeah, my version of your Costner realization was when I realized that Sienna Miller was not intended as Kevin Costner's ultimate love interest that we know of. And it could still happen, but suddenly Sam Worthington is just wandering around with an American accent, sort of. And then you have Abby Lee playing Marigold. And there's, I mean, I don't know what happened to her i honestly was pretty

confused as to why she left and who that guy was but um but once you realize that it's not all within the bounds of everything is orienting towards who kevin costner is going to save and fall in love with and what he's going to do you're like huh. Let me ask you the question, though. So if you took away the digital photography, the Elmer Bernstein kind of style score, is this like a truly avant-garde movie that's masquerading as like a summer blockbuster and a traditional Western? Or is this, dude, could you really not get Chris McCarthy

to give you $150 million to make this as a miniseries I don't think it's as avant-garde as I would like it to be because I think he's those instincts are just slightly beyond his reach creatively I think there's a big difference between weird

and purposefully outside of the expected mainstream and I think that there is some weirdness in some of the expected mainstream. And I think that there is some weirdness in some of the decision making. Again, like, I kind of want to take the movie apart and put it back together. Because like I said, I watched it and I was like, that was cool. I'd like to see the next one. That was kind of my takeaway.

Like, I'm happy to watch another one of these movies. If I was a regular consumer of movies, though, I don't know if that would be my reaction. I think my reaction would be like when does the movie start the question also is uh I had this very funny conversation with uh Tyler Parker the other day where he described his grandfather going to see Outer Range twice in three days when it was in theaters I don't know if those guys are gonna like it too that that's sort of what I'm saying that's because if you go see like one movie a year and you're like I've been waiting for this one, man. Yeah.

And then you go and he's not in it for an hour. I think you might be a little bit disappointed. The first, you're, you're, you know what? You're right. The first 30 minutes is very avant-garde where, where he's like, what I'm going to do now is continue to introduce people who don't have names and they're going to occupy a space that I don't explain to you. And you're just going to have to understand over the course of the telling of the movie, what I'm trying to do here, but also

I'm not going to finish. So my vision will not feel complete in this communication of three hours. Like, why is it, why not four hours? Why not two hours? Why not do five movies at two hours each? Why, you know, it's, I don't really understand mechanically how he landed on these series of decisions. Because when the movie ends, you're like, what? We're right in the middle of this plot line. You can't not. What's going on with the wagon train? Where are we going next?

I'm trying to remember the actual. Chris texted me an hour later. He was just like, I'm thinking a lot about that couple on the wagon train. There's a British couple on the wagon train the british there's a british couple on the wagon yeah and they are such a television pair of characters because they i i have a hard time imagining that in 2026 when this grand cycle is completed that juliet and hugh will be like and that's how we and we we found Horizon and started the greatest cattle company in Arizona history bringing British farming

techniques to the desert. Her full name is Juliet Chesney. Chesney. Yeah. Allegedly. So you kind of have a sense that these are supporting characters. I do believe her being peeping-tombed while she takes a full body bath on the trail.

Supposed to a half-body bath. And then these two simpletons watch her. And then they're like, well, we didn't really like that. And Luke Wilson is like, I'm going to go tell these simpletons not to do that again. And that's this ominous end of the conversation where they're like, you're actually not in charge. Yeah. Isn't that the way the movie kind of ends not exactly

it's close to the ending but that scene I loved because I was I was like this is a movie scene are these guys gonna blow Luke Wilson's head off

right now like this is to me I was like this is a fucking western movie this is a great western movie scene and he knows it

he's like if I go tell these guys not to do this I'm gonna have like a confrontation we're trying to keep things peaceful on this wagon train I thought that was really cool but I was like why the fuck is this happening in our why are we stopping yeah yeah are we making sense I know we're yeah sort of

I mean I by hour by two and a half hours in I was just sort of like there are just like a lot of people and a lot of you know vistas just washing over me and everybody is kind of getting their five minutes of exposition I think at some point I just gave in and I was like okay you're gonna tell me something else yeah which is a little bit how I watch tv I mean not to keep beating that particular thing but I was like okay now I'm supposed to learn this about this person and I wondered their very last scene is actually it's in a rainstorm and they're sitting there and they're giggling together in a way like they have some sort of secret.

And I'm like, Oh, are you pregnant? Like, are you setting up like the next generation of like wagon train stuff? But that's in that mind of the TV guessing of, you know, okay,

so what's going to happen next? What's going to happen next? So I guess in that sense, it, it worked for me. Cause I was just like, well, I'm just trapped here and they're just going to happen next what's going to happen next so I guess in that sense it it worked for me because I was just like well I'm just trapped here and they're just going to be new people and I'm going to have to learn what's going on with them I think that there's something cool about the idea of taking some archetypal western characters like the man with no name

is essentially the Hayes Ellison Costner person who's like you know I'm I'm rolling through the plains unencumbered nobody depends I, I don't depend on anybody. I don't get hurt. And he immediately gets thrown into, I saved this woman. And now I have this woman and a child with me. And all this stuff kind of going forward. And it's basically like, I like that, like, you know, the Sienna Miller character is this, like, fierce homesteader woman who falls in love after her husband has been tragically murdered like there's kind of something about like taking the types of people you meet in western films and almost throwing them into tv story that i

i thought was effective but just odd but isn't that so similar to what taylor sheridan does i'm not as up on what he's doing but i'm like it's so weird that he's just like, I got to get off this Taylor Sheridan show so I can make a Taylor Sheridan show. No, that's the whole reason why people loved 1883 was that like, it was like movie pacing of plot where like characters would die or stuff would happen. You'd be like,

that's not gonna happen till the end of the season. And it's like, Oh my God, that just happened in the fourth episode. Like, this is crazy. It's like, it's like the Ozark thing of everything that happens

in the first episode of Ozark would normally take a season to get through. He does that a lot with his shows until they get to season three and then he's like, alright, we'll do this now. There's something to that. I definitely feel like Taylor Sheridan has a huge amount to do

with the way this story is told, which is hilarious because there is a world in which he could have just been like, yeah, I'll keep playing John Dutton. I'll be on the biggest show on television, thus giving me a much larger platform to promote this passion project that I can kind of tick along doing in my off time. And they just couldn't make that work. It's very curious. I know Costner is iconoclastic through and through. And we talked about that Vanity Fair story from 1989 where even then he's like, I don't care when someone says something is too long. I don't care. The script has to be what I want it to be. I have my vision and I'm sticking to it. And this is one more example of it.

And it's in the year in which that keeps happening. This is the year of Megalopolis. Like these boomers are doing what they want to do they're gonna finish their stories in the way that they want to zemeckis is like the camera stays here that's right i mean another great example of somebody who's like i have an idea about what cinema is and you can't push me off it but then you watch it and you're like, these guys might be a little old. A lot of old men. You know, yeah.

I understand. I mean, we have to have Coppola and Costner in the same conversation because they have self-funded two sprawling epics that are facing theatrical cross-currents. It's a very gentle word for what they're facing, yes.

And Matt Bellany just did a great episode on the town about the financial stakes of Horizon in particular, and then they do bring up Mecalopolis. But man, Costner's not Coppola. It's just like, Kevin, the situations are similar, but Costner is not Coppola. It's just like, Kevin, the situations are similar, but Costner is not Coppola. And some of the choices in this, and even just the choice of being like,

you know what, I'll just do my version of Yellowstone because I can and I want to, and because I don't want to be doing someone else's seems to be what's happening here. And it's not bad. I mean, they're importantly bound by the fact

that not only are they two hugely successful people who both won Best Picture, Best Director, who have been responsible for very memorable aspects of Hollywood

in the last 50 years, but neither of them could get any traditional studio here or abroad to actually pay for their movie. And so they both

have found ways to effectively broker distribution-only deals from studios their movie. And so they both have found ways to effectively broker distribution-only deals from studios in America. And so essentially it's all on them. Yeah. And so having seen part one now, would you guys say that Kevin Costner's gamble was worth it? I am really reticent to evaluate something artistically

based on somebody's personal financial investment in it. I do think that, unfortunately, the way in which people consume films now has changed so drastically since the last time he made a movie, even in open range, that it's hard to imagine part one even being in any theaters

by the time part two comes out. I don't understand even... The any theaters by the time part two comes out like I don't understand even so you the only people who will see part two are those who saw part one then there's going to be

a natural it's a great bit just going to see part two what? it's a great bit but there's going to be a natural attrition from those numbers anyway

if people will be like it's not for me I did not like it I will not be seeing part two so part two or I can just wait to see it at home exactly

as I watch all my other episodic westerns. So the upside of that conversation is that he owns the movie. So whatever distribution channel he decides to license it to, I'm not sure if there is a negotiation with Max there already. There may be. But either way, in perpetuity, he'll be able to make it available wherever he wants. If he wants to license it to Paramount, he can do that if they so want it. If he wants to license it to Paramount he can do that if they so want it.

If he wants to put it on the fucking Criterion channel and they want it he can do that. So it's a really interesting thing because he's counting I think on a lot of downstream dollars to make clean. Specifically DVD sales at Walmart which is a thing that he said. He says that and frankly his fans do still buy DVDs.

You know what I mean? He obviously has an older fan base you you are fans i i own a lot of his films yeah um but i think he more means i think pvod streaming yeah all that stuff is in this is not just not a corporately owned product and that's very unusual like if he just if this had just been done in a less like, fuck it, Joe Boo, I do it myself. He could have done something where maybe CBS was like, this week we are airing Horizon in its entirety at a miniseries event.

There are so many creative ways that a partner could have maximized this and instead it's like, nope. It sounds like they didn't want it. I mean, it sounds like they didn't want it. He hasn't talked about whether or not he asked the tv network if they wanted this right that's that hasn't been posed to him as far as i know it feels like it feels like it's made for tv with the exception of the fact that like it's in monument valley yeah i mean the other

problem is is that uh in terms of the financials of it is just before we were i was just reading about how the west was won before I walked in here. 1962 adjusted everything, whatever. Cost $15 million, made $50 million. Yeah. Has every big movie star in the world in it, and it cost $15 million, and they made $50 million. And was a cinematic event because you wanted to see it projected across the screen in a certain way.

This has got Sienna Miller and Sam Worthington, and it cost $150 million to make or whatever. When they're done with all four, it's going to be hundreds of millions. Yeah, so I think that's pretty indicative of where we're at with the business side of this stuff where it's just like these things don't make sense anymore. There is an interesting thing

that is happening with filmmakers though. And I think that this is, there are children of Costner and coppola and all of these guys who continue to assert control which is early children like sofia or no well of course there are yeah um i don't know if any of kevin costner's children have gone into filmmaking but the the sort of the descendants the creative descendants so obviously tarantino reportedly made a deal with sony when he made Once Upon a Time in Hollywood to regain control of the film. Coogler, yeah.

And now Ryan Coogler is making this movie for Warner Brothers next year that after I don't know how many years, 25 years, he will own. And reportedly part of the thinking there is like this is like buying a house. This is an investment. This is something my family can have forever. And they can continue. It's an annuity. They can continue to make money off of it. So just like purely from the business perspective, and I don't know, I didn't listen to that episode of the town yet. So I don't, I don't know if Matt talked about this, but the idea of like, if we get enough people to accept that maybe it's better as a TV show, horizon could be something that continues to make money for them for a long time it's just it's so clearly going to be such a red letter you know splatter fest on the pages of the trades on

sunday morning when it's like horizon 8.7 million dollars disaster costner cooked what happens to part two and and one thing he has um producer mark gill on and one thing they explain is that the box office does affect then the negotiation of the rights on streaming and on and like and how much money you can get from vod so it's you know if the tracking continues then it's going to be harder they also just like actually break down how horizon was funded which was very interesting and um and what money it is or isn't getting back from international western Westerns don't do well internationally. So like Costner is at the bottom of the pyramid of getting the money back and they just have a lot more money to get back.

You're more tapped into the French mindset right now. Yeah. Do you think that like French tourists will be like, oh, Kevin. Definitely in play. Kevin. Maybe. Definitely in play.

The beauty. Siena Miller. oh Kevin definitely in play Kevin maybe definitely in play the beauty Sienna Miller if there was a who was that Macron who was that I don't know what that was okay

was that Pepe Le Pew I don't like so like I was curious about this though if you could pick any of the sort of storylines of this

this movie and be like this would be the Amanda, this would be the Amanda cut, this would be the Sean cut. I would like to just have this film. What would it be? Well, I really like Santa Miller. And that first hour, even though it does not have Kevin Costner in it, is quite upsetting. The raid on the town is tremendous and very scary. Incredibly good filmmaking. Also inspired a lot of questions for me, like, do they have pajamas in the West? Or do you always just sleep in your clothes?

I thought they had dressing gowns. No, but when the raid happens, they're still all, they were just like sleeping in their clothes, which I guess makes sense. Weren't they just coming from the party? Yeah, but they're asleep. Oh, okay. Because the kids are asleep. I mean, maybe they weren't they weren't asleep i i have a lot of questions about bathing and clothing and how often you wash your clothes and you know because the kevin costner plot line the mining town has like the public baths that he goes to

great opportunity for listeners to tune into the settlers edition of jmo which is a private patreon feed we've been developing i'm really excited about that series hosted by Amanda. Well, I mean, what did these gals wear when they went to sleep? Yeah. In general, what is the definition of clean in the West, and are you ever clean?

Physically or morally? I'm speaking physically. Morally, I think we all know. I think you would have to make probably some allowances. You know, I think you... Allowances. To, like, personal hygiene. But it's like...

So that lady taking a bath and a full bath as opposed to a sponge bath is obviously, like, a plot point. Using the drinking water. So she's not supposed to do that. But that thus implies that, like, no one else has bathed in any way

in a long time. Yeah. I think that stands to reason. On a wagon train, I think that's reasonable to. On a wagon train, I think that's reasonable to assume. Will Pat is actually paying a 25-year-old. I mean,

then you begin to worry about like bacteria and stuff. And, I don't know. The life expectancy was like 38. Like it was, you know.

I know, I know. Anyway, but Sienna Miller, despite all of that, like has these like immaculate sweaters that are, like, basically from the road. She's radiating off the screen. Yeah. No, no, no. It's incredible. Golden tresses.

Yeah. And they're just, like, completely, there's not a speck of dirt in sight on any of them. It was punishing to learn that she and I are the same age because I'm like, I thought she was, like, 31. Yeah. It's crazy. Someone like Sienna Miller, like thought she was like 31. Yeah. It's crazy. Someone like Santa Mella are like, she's genetically blessed.

I think, you know. She's good in the movie though. There are parts of that story that I think work for sure. And I also thought a lot of like World War Z, not World War Z, Lost City of Z,

which is like another like movie where she's playing like the aggrieved, not the aggrieved, but like the widowed wife or the, what can be a very, very unrewarding role.

A woman left to confront the world by herself. Yes. In times when the world was not that interested in a single woman. So, or a woman by herself. So she's really good in that. I think you'd have to like merge it with Costner at some point.

Okay. This was my big question. I was just texting with someone about this this would be very groan worthy because of what it indicates about well like what's happened in the past in hollywood but if you just put kevin costner in the sam worthington part yeah isn't the movie better make a movie isn't it like a more coherent thing we're like just a movie though that's the thing is like nobody just went to the movies i know but nobody just

is like I have an idea for a two hour western about a woman who experiences a tragedy and finds love with a cavalry captain but then put Sam Worthington

in the Kevin Costner part that's my point he can't stand up to Marigold Kevin Costner? no Sam Worthington okay who would you

put in that part Austin Butler great that would be really good it needs to be an older fellow who's had some experience with herding cattle. Okay. So. So, and Sam Worthington is like the cattle.

The guy who's 40s? I don't know. The weird, trampy criminal who gets put down by Kevin Costner is giving off some Austin Butler. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, he's trying. He's got some wannabe vibes. That's true. I agree with Amanda.

I thought that the Sienna Miller it was the most like fully fleshed out like even like her like making the air tube underground thing yeah with the rifle that whole sequence

was awesome and yeah I actually found myself pretty affected by like her Sam Worthington thing and like her daughter giving the flowers to the cavalry officers

leaving for the war like that was all really good yeah and that was like a two-hour Western in 1966 yes for sure I really like the wagon

train and it was had me thinking I I don't think I could think of one since Meeks cut off like I couldn't think of a movie that had been made with that kind of a storyline which is a

to me is always a very interesting story and part of what you're asking where you're sort of like so you guys are just on the road yeah for 400 days traveling across the entire country.

That's amazing, the things that can happen that can come up when that's going on. But we just didn't get enough of it to fully understand. I will say the one sequence that we didn't mention yet

that I think is exceptional is when they get to sort of like the barter general store and the men are deciding whether or not to buy guns. And then there's the showdown between Native American guy and his son.

They're trying to get the kid to do drawings. And that's that kid. And that's that kid, yeah. So he escaped from the Sienna Miller town? He escaped from the raid on the town, yes.

And he joined up with these bandits, essentially. The next day, they're like, some of us are going to go scalp hunting and some of us are going to the fort. And the kid up with these bandits. Like the next day, they're like, some of us are going to go scalp hunting and some of us are going to the fort. And the kid goes with the scalp hunters.

Oh. Yes. To identify the Apache who they saw. But that's where, you know, James Russo is part of that sequence. Jeff Fahey is a part of that sequence. And it's just like 10 dastardly guys in a room together. Yeah. Trying to figure out if anybody's going to get shot.

And like, you know, that is the stuff that great Westerns are made of. That is, that's very similar to that Luke Wilson moment when he goes up to confront those two guys where you're just like on the edge of your seat you know like is there going to be

a showdown or not I it's just surrounded by so many other things that and you know that nothing is going to be

concluded completed you know there's like we have a long way to go right and they also they introduce

like three more plot lines. Like there's a Chinese immigrant plot line. The poor general loan Michael Aguilaro plot line where he's like, I'm going to, I'm going to get a mine going by like faking out these rich guys. Right, right, right. But that was totally like a wrong foot move, you know, where they're like, actually, don't worry about these characters. They're not important anymore.

We're going over with this guy. I was like, I thought that was kind of interesting, but it was, it was Taylor Sheridan TV. Yeah. To your point um very very curious movie I like it does it feel does this film like is it not bad

enough to be like oh my god yeah it's really not like terrible at all yeah so it's part-time something is pretty pretty good yeah yeah it's just that it's an odd artifact of this

decision-making that he landed on and I'm curious to see what it how it materializes or doesn't in the world

it's interesting too that it's going up against A Quiet Place 3 which is this like much more clearly communicated like this is the third movie in a series of movies

about this thing that happened this one's the prequel yeah like that's that's all it is it's not like we're gonna introduce a character and that character's gonna die but the guy who's standing next to him that's the guy you're gonna

follow okay wait we're going over here we're going back to montana like anyway uh any other meaningful thoughts about this movie i i will be one of the most anticipated things of the summer is a horizon part two because i want to see whether or not like it makes the first one make seem like a masterpiece. Right. You know what I mean? Like could you watch

Horizon Part 2 standalone and then Horizon Part 1 is like Godfather Part 2 where all the characters expand and take on a new weight? Like

I How does it how does it end? Is there another trailer? Is it like Horizon Part 3? It's a really good question. Does he bake in the possibility that he doesn't get financing

for 3 and 4? It's a very good question. We're going to find out on August 16th. We just talked about this movie for like a half an hour or so. It's not even that funny. I have nothing like

there's nothing I can't make fun of it. It's just like It's not bad. It's just a cool western. Yeah. But it's not that good and I don't understand

why you'd be like for two decades i've been chasing the tail of this table that's what's fascinating about it it is that we mythologized it on the show and we were like okay he is like but i'm always willing to take the bait when somebody's like i'm betting it all yeah i'm making like crazy vision i love when people do when they hear trailer came out came out, I was like, absolutely. Great idea. Let's do this. It could be terrible.

I don't know, but I want to believe. We want to believe and we at least get to believe in going to see part two, although not before Alien Romulus, which is opening on the same day. Oh, so it got, so it was originally supposed to be August 2nd.

Then they moved Trap and then pushed Horizon part two back. I thought it was always the 16th. Was it not? No, for a while, it was definitely August 2nd then they moved trap and then pushed horizon part two back i thought it was always the 16th was it not no for a while it was definitely august 2nd because that's a that's an important day are we gonna do let's do it let's challenge one another let's go romulus horizon to romulus i love it i love that idea uh Chris, thanks so much for being here. Yeah, I feel like I didn't come with a funny voice or an outrageous take. You had your French guy.

That's true. You had your Cahiers du Cinema critic who came through. Macron, yeah. Macron writing for Cahiers du Cinema is a good character for you. Well, he's going to need a job soon. This has been the episode.

What are we doing next week? Oh, we're're gonna be back together cause we have another movie option us yeah the three of us yeah oh action part two yeah and horizon part two

is on the table just for you wow should we duke it out bait me into getting it okay cool do you know what's coming out at the end of the second half

I mean you know about Romulus I know how to look at the internet do I have like just like a feel of like what's coming out yeah but like what's in your like when we say have you been at the second half of the year. I mean, you know about Romulus. I know how to look at the internet. Do I have just like a feel of what's coming out? Yeah, but like what's in your, like when we say. Have you been at the Ivy talking to the guys? Have they been telling you about release dates? No. When we say Q4, what comes to mind?

Without, you don't have your computer. Is here coming out at the end of the year? November. Yeah, he just said that. Give me another one. He didn't give me a date. Gosh, I really don't know. You can't think of a single movie.

From Q4? I don't know. It's usually a lot easier. Oh, well, Q3 is Romulus, right? Okay. Name a movie that hasn't been uttered. What is the Steven Soderbergh horror movie coming out? Undated.

Black Bag? What about that one? What's that? Isn't that the spy movie or are they the same movie? His other movie? You just said the Steven Soderbergh movies? I don't even know if that movie's in production.

They're just like, he's probably filming something. You're just going to like, who's a guy I like? Does he have something cooking right now? Did you think that there was some elaborate arithmetic

going on? If this hasn't been a great tease for Auction Part 2, I don't know what could be. Thanks to Alea Zanaris. Thanks to Jack Sanders. Thanks to our producer

Bobby Wagner for his work on this episode. We'll be back next week with an auction. See you then.