The Big Picture - The Sylvester Stallone Hall of Fame With Bill Simmons

Episode Date: August 30, 2022

Sylvester Stallone is back on the big screen in ‘Samaritan,’ an Amazon Prime superhero vehicle with Stallone at the center. To mark the occasion, Sean is joined by Bill Simmons to build out the Sly Hall of Fame. Host: Sean Fennessey Guest: Bill Simmons Producer: Bobby Wagner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Bill Simmons. I have some good news for you. The hottest take. It's back. Oh yeah. Monday through Thursday, four times a week, you'll hear from me, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, Mallory Rubin, Wazni Lambry, Van Lathan, Judah Lippman, many other Ringer staffers. You get one take, you got a defendant to the death. Sports takes, pop culture takes, food takes, airplane takes. Oh yeah, it's coming back. First episode drops August 29th.

Get groceries delivered across the GTA from Real Canadian Superstore with PC Express. Shop online for super prices and super savings. Try it today and get up to $75 in PC Optimum Points. Visit Superstore.ca to get started. I'm Sean Fennessey, and this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about Sly Stallone.

Stallone stars in the down-and-dirty superhero movie Samaritan, now streaming on Amazon Prime. So today we're building a Hall of Fame in honor of Stallone, and we're joined by a true, the one true Stallonologist, Bill Simmons. Hi, Bill. Is that what I am? Well, the new Amazon movie's bad, right? It's pretty bad, yeah. Well, you know what it reminded me of? It reminded me of another Stallone movie. It reminded me of Judge Dredd, which was his attempt to get into the superhero world in the 90s, because it was sort of like ground level. It was very violent. It didn't have the same like winking quality that a lot of our modern superhero movies made because, you know, it's a Stallone movie. He can only do so much in that respect. I didn't think it was great though. I was a little disappointed by it. Judge Dredd was bad and it is not in my hall of

fame. No, it's that's safe to say. I think it was clumsy. I think a good word for Stallone sometimes is clumsy. He clearly oversees his own career. He looks at the big picture of it and he tries to zag and zig. But a lot of times it just doesn't work out. Yeah. He did that. Driven's a good example of that

where he does Driven with Burt Reynolds and it's like cars, hip, and it just failed. Or Get Carter was another one. I'm a little older now. I'm going to do my sort of cool crime movie. It just didn't work. But sometimes it does work.

Sometimes we did Copland on the rewatchables a few months ago. That was him making an effort to make a more prestigious ground-level crime movie and play a different kind of part. A little overweight, doing an accent, local in New Jersey. And he was great. And that movie's good. He hurt my feelings with that, though, where he New Jersey. And he was great. And that movie's good. He hurt my feelings with that, though, where he was talking about how he was in a slump

and he felt like he needed to get his mojo back, basically, and take a big swing. And I'm like, I wouldn't call it a total slump. I like daylight. I love Cliffhanger. Cliffhanger is amazing. Cliffhanger is just for the rewatchables, just kind of have it in the closet,

just hanging out with the chocolates. I rewatched Cliffhanger. I was happy to rewatch Cliffhanger. Oh. Cliffhanger is just for the rewatchables, just kind of have it in the closet, just hanging out with the chocolates. I rewatched Cliffhanger. I was happy to rewatch Cliffhanger. Oh, it's so good. It's fantastic. It's probably the best movie he made in the 90s, depending on how you feel about Copland. But after Copland,

I told you my theory during the Copland podcast. He put on all that weight. I think it like screwed up his face. And then he tried to recapture it. The thing I remember i think that movie was called driven right him and burt reynolds yes and kip pardue yeah it was the kip pardue this is his time and it turns out it was not it wasn't this time um but the thing i remember about that is they both looked like they were wearing halloween masks of their own faces burt

reynolds and sly salone and they just really old. And it just felt like their era was just officially over with that movie. But I think his ability to resurface and creed with that franchise, I think, was probably the most important thing. Because I split up his career into eras, which we can do whenever you want. Yeah. I mean, I think it's fun to talk about him in broad strokes first before we start digging into the movie by movie. Because he's had such an amazing career.

You make an amazing point, which is that more so it seems like, at least as far as we can tell, he's been the author of his own fate. He has written a lot of his own movies. He's clearly very involved in the rewriting of a lot of movies that he makes. He has a very hands-on approach to his career and to his individual projects. And bet on himself. Very much so. Over and over again, placed huge bets on himself.

No bigger than the Rocky one, which ironically is why he's been in the news lately because he feels like he should own at least a piece of the Rocky franchise, maybe the whole thing. But he signed that away and his bet was, if you make me the star of this movie, I'll do this, I'll do this, I'll do this, I'll do this. And he bet on himself and he won. But then he was mad about it 46 years later. It was very strange.

It's such a fascinating case that he's trying to litigate in public right now. So, Chardoff and Winkler, the producers of that film, own the rights to that franchise. He, of course, created the character. He was the star. He directed some of the films. He's had a hand in writing almost all of those movies. He is ultimately, there is no Rocky without Sylvester Stallone. However, we live in the real world.

But there's also no Rocky without the people who made it because he was a nobody. And they didn't want to make it with him because they didn't think they would be able to sell the movie. So there was a trade-off that I think all these years later he kind of forgot about. You're right, but it also is indicative of the way that he moves through Hollywood, which is I deserve everything that I get and I will work really hard for it. And I will put all my creative energies into it. Sometimes it's not going to work, but when it works, I deserve all the spoils. And he's, he's having one of those fights right now. I feel like he has one of these every five or so years too, where he's sort of like, I need to replant my flag. I need to launch a new franchise. I need to bring a franchise back. He's very aware of the power of ongoing IP in a way that very few people before him were.

You know, we hear that word all the time now because of Game of Thrones and Marvel and all these things. But Rocky and John Rambo, he kind of, I mean, it's James Bond comes before him, but he really had an eye towards making these ongoing projects a long, long time ago. He's been very smart about that stuff. Yeah, I don't even know how intentional that was to get the basically three generations out of the same character. Because initially it was a financial situation, right? Like they make Rocky III because they're going to make a lot of money doing Rocky III.

I think Rocky III is one of the top five movies of 1982. Same thing for First Blood, the Rambo First Blood Part II. That felt like the biggest movie in 1985. 1985, I think, is definitively his apex mountain. He releases Rambo First Blood Part II and Rocky IV, both of which made $300 million internationally. And at that time, that was an amazing amount of money for movies. So he was $600 million of worldwide box office that year. Also really fun movies to see in the theater.

I remember it was early HBO and HBO used to do this thing where they would have theatrical releases premiering on HBO, but sometimes they wouldn't tell you what it was and they would like hint. And they had this whole thing. And I can't remember whether it was like New Year's Eve or it was like tied to some sort of day. And they were like, we have, we're not telling you what it is. And then eight o'clock that night and it starts and it's Rambo two. And I was like, Oh my God, Rambo two. This is amazing. Cause there was, you know, barely blockbuster at that point, but that's how big he was. I mean, I remember being in high school, just seeing the Cobra trailer,

you know, when it was like nine months away from being completed. And it was just like, we're there. I was talking to Shay about this. Cause we did tango and cash for the rewatchables that is coincidentally running this week. And it was like,

he was a season ticket guy for probably all the way through Copland. So that's 1978 through... He was a season ticket guy for me for 20 years. If he made a movie, I was going. I saw Staying Alive in the theater because he directed it. Was Rocky the entry point for you? Was that the first thing that you saw

that you were like, I'm in. I want to be with this guy. And the impact of Rocky gets lost. I'm barely old enough to remember it. I think I was seven. But I saw it in the theater. Was super confused after because if you actually,

we've seen it a million times now, but it was hard to tell if he won or lost based on how the ending was filmed because they're basically, they're doing the announcing. It's like, there goes

eight, seven, four Balboa. And then they show Creed. He's celebrating the second one. But then Adrian's trying to get in the ring. And then she gets in the ring and they're hugging. And kind of in the background, you're like, and still champion Apollo Creed.

So we left. I was like, Dad, did he win? Because I was so conditioned to boxing. But then went home and immediately was in the living room boxing. The soundtrack came out. The soundtrack was hugely important. That one, Saturday Night Saturday night fever, Greece. That was kind of the era where you consume the movie and then you consume the soundtrack

and it literally, I remember it. It started the jogging thing. I remember seeing people jogging after that movie and Jim fix was involved too. Obviously he wrote the jogging book, but book, but the whole conditioning and caring about yourself, I really feel like it was right around there when really mainstream normal people just started working out. He was tremendously influential. That character was tremendously influential.

It's a famous movie. It's a Best Picture winner. It's a movie that triumphed over a lot of other really good movies that year. It triumphed over All the President's Men and Network and a handful of other movies. It's a bonkers movie year good movies that year. You know, it triumphed over All the President's Men and Network and a handful of other movies. It's a bonkers movie year. Crazy movie year. It's probably the greatest underdog story

we've ever had, right? Because you could say Damon and Affleck, but they won for best writing. Like Stallone won for best picture. He was nominated. He felt like probably one of the five biggest stars in the world after the movie came out. Yeah, one of only two acting nominations.

And he's legitimately great as Rocky Balboa. It's not... He was. He was doing something special. And it's interesting to look at his career before Rocky because he was on the come up. He was appearing in or making a bid to appear in quality movies, work with quality directors.

He was having a hard time getting starring parts. And that's one of the reasons why he wrote Rocky and one of the reasons why he pushed so hard to stay as the star. Because who was it? It was Redford was the studio wanted for that part. There was another, was it Ryan O'Neill? There was a couple of guys. I think Ryan O'Neill was the big one. But yeah, I think as the years pass, we've learned with the rewatchables, trying to suss out what's real and not real. When a movie like that, just every white actor in the relative age range

gets thrown in like oh yeah he was up for it he was up for it I think Ryan O'Neill was the one though because he ended up doing the champ not the champ

the main event two years later yeah the the thing that's interesting to me about him and I wanted to ask you about this

because you were paying close attention absolutely loved the guy like immediately it seemed like in the late 70s after Rocky because you were paying close attention. Absolutely loved the guy. Like, immediately. It seemed like in the late 70s, after Rocky, he was trying to have a very, for lack of a better word,

reputable film career. He was trying to work with good directors, tell slightly more serious stories than when we think of Sylvester Stallone. This is pre-First Blood. This is pre-Cobra movies like that. You know, these like pure action thrillers. But I would throw First Blood in there

because I think that's a really good movie. It is a good movie based on a celebrated novel, really well-made movie. But because of part two, it started to become more comic book-y and more sort of like overtly violent. He became too famous. But from 76 to 82,

you know, he's making Fist and he's making Nighthawks and he's making these movies that are like pretty gritty. Escape to Victory. Like he's working with John Houston. He's working with Norman Jewison. It's funny the way that things turned out because it didn't, it seemed like he wanted a different kind of career for himself. Does that make sense to you now? Well, so Rocky II happens. And Rocky II was a legitimate event during an era when we didn't really have sequels in that way. You know, like what were the sequels?

Godfather II, I don't even count. Like that, you know, it's part based off the book. But I guess that was a successful sequel. It's like a Jaws 2, right? Or like a Poseidon Adventure 2 or something like that. Yeah, so you had all those airport movies and stuff like that, but we didn't have sequels

in the same way as like Cash Cows. And Rocky 2 is an event. I saw that in Massachusetts with my friend Reese Genzer and the whole movie theater. We're all going nuts the last 25 minutes.

It was like a real fight. Like, can Rocky win this? And after that, it just felt like he could do anything. And that, you know, we had a lot of good actors back then. That was the heyday of Clint, heyday of Burt Reynolds. Newman and Redford are still huge.

Nicholson can still make any movie he wants. De Niro and Pacino are coming. But Stallone still felt like he had this little corner. And I think he knew it. So, like, I think if it's 20 years later, he's probably in like a fast and furious type franchise, right? He probably audibles immediately that way.

If it's like 10 years later, he's thinking like, what's my diehard. Right. But we didn't really think that way back then. They weren't, they didn't make nearly as many of the movies. So the choices are really interesting.

I think Nighthawks is a cool movie. It is a cool movie. It's really weird and it's a little flawed, but there weren't, just weren't a lot of movies like that in the early 80s. Victory was a really big swing. He's probably one of the three worst things in it just because I don't understand his character. As much as I love Stallone, I mean, he's a goalie.

They have real famous world-class soccer players. Pele is in this film and Michael Caine is in this film. He's a little outclassed. But First Blood was to me like his biggest victory during that era because that's an awesome Vietnam movie.

And I think the sequels have obscured how good the original First Blood was. Is it... Do you buy the case that it's the worst thing that ever happened to him? No, the worst thing

that ever happened to him was Rocky III. How so? Because Rocky three was even bigger than rocky two and that then you have to do rocky four so now you're down the sequel thing and you're just making a shitload of money and now you're getting competitive and you're trying to be the biggest star in the world which he basically was yeah and you start making decisions based on that and that takes us through the 80s with him.

He also, legendary ego. I don't, like when we did the, when we did Cobra for the rewatchable, it was just the research of it. I didn't know half of the stories. People weren't allowed to look at him on the set. And, you know, he was like bulldozing directors. Tang on Cash, the director got fired,

you know, two thirds of the way through the movie. So he was just super famous during the cocaine era, the craziest time to be famous during movies. And I don't know. He came out of it all right. He didn't come out of it with a drug problem. Had some weird relationships. But for the most part, I really like the movies he made in the 80s.

Even like over the top, Tango and Cash. Like I will defend all. Lockup, which I think is like kind of a lost alone movie. I've never seen that one. I think that one's really good. That's one of the only ones I've never seen. Oh, yeah. Really good Donald Sutherland.

Evil Warden. Okay. But yeah, he's... All the way through the 80s, he's just crushing it. And then has this weird hiccup right after Tango and Cash where all of a sudden he's in danger. And then the 90s were really up and down. Such an interesting career because

it just seems like legitimately four different phases. You know? There's like... I had five. Okay. Do you want to start breaking them down? Well, let me ask you this. As a performer, what do you like? Because with Rocky it's obvious. We love the story.

It's inspiring. It's a beautifully designed movie, right? It's just one of the story it's inspiring it's a really it's a beautifully designed movie right it just gets one of the most involving movies of all time

even though it's a little slow these days when you get to the end of it you're like holy shit I feel something

deeply the Adrian seduction scene is really tough that is creepy yeah that went down 46 years later has not has not done awesome

so a couple things with Stallone he creates two iconic characters most people are lucky to create one, right? Vin Diesel created one. Dom Toretto. Is that an iconic character?

Yeah. Okay. They've had 10 Fast and Furious movies. The last one made like $2 billion. Rocky and Rambo are actually like different characters. For sure. Which is, I think, pretty impressive to do.

But then he also has some of the other, like the over-the-top guy is actually like closer to Copland. Right? The divorce dad. Regular Joe, truck driver. He's driving the truck. He's just doing arm curls as he's on the highway, just thinking about his divorce and his son.

That's what you do when you drive, too. That was my dad during his divorce. Tango and Cash, he's trying to be funny Stallone. Cobra, he's trying to be like fucking absolute badass Stallone with the toothpick. But the South Parity thing, that's what him and Schwarzenegger, that was what set them apart. Nobody else had it. We're laughing with them and at them but more with them

but a little bit at them and they kind of knew and they they got they were in on the joke but they weren't It's the most interesting part of it.

It's but I feel like because even you watch Tango and Cash it's very meta. Yeah. So he definitely understood it but I also think

those guys were like I'm the biggest star in the world fuck everybody do you I always wonder if guys like that if they have one friend who is just like

hey no you can't they're kind of they're laughing at you a little bit no you can't like just a little bit like not one friend not one person

who's like hey you know I mean Cobra seriously like what was up with that scene with the pizza you know like

there has to be but that's what makes Cobra, seriously? What was up with that scene with the pizza? There has to be a- But that's what makes Cobra so amazing. I agree. I agree. That whole scene, the five minutes when he's outside of his apartment and he's talking to those gangbangers and he's litigating. And then all he's worried about is his pizza. He goes in, he cuts it with scissors. Cleaning his gun while watching the Toys R Us commercial.

It's an insane movie. It's bizarre. I feel like out of any actor, I feel like he fits in with the 80s the best. How just absolutely Looney Tunes the 80s were. And cocaine, I just feel like, is lingering over every decision anybody made. But that same thing that you're describing,

that lack of self-awareness with self-awareness, I think is what either elevates or destroys Slash, like makes his movies cult objects, especially in the 80s. Because in the 80s, he does make First Blood, which is great. You know, he does, I really like Rocky III and IV a lot.

I've always liked Rocky III and IV. Rocky III is one of the most incredible movies ever made. I mean, it's like the Godfather, Wizard of Oz, and Rocky III. That's way up there. That is your true identity. Rocky III is incredible. But it's so satisfying from start to finish.

There's not a minute wasted in Rocky III. He really figured it out. But he also, within a year of Rocky III, makes Rhinestone. You know what I mean? The lows are so low. Stop or My Mom Will Shoot and Oscar, which are three of the worst movies any famous star has made. Like, Reynolds had a couple bad ones.

Yeah, yeah. But none as bad as those. He made, like, Malone when he had that kind of Burt Reynolds dying off stretch. But my thing with Reynolds is, it always felt like he just wanted to work with his buddies. Yeah, he's like Adam Sandler. He would let stuff get away from him and just be like, this one didn't work.

It was a piece of shit. With Stallone, it felt like he was obsessively over managing his career and you said it the zag thing where with Oscar he's like I'm gonna do something they're never gonna see coming and there's a reason no one would ever see it coming it's because it's a horrible idea like a screwball comedy directed by John Landis starring Sylvester Stallone is is as stupid as it sounds. And it really doesn't work. That's why that era was so great, though, because nobody got talked out of decisions like that.

And Stallone had this real thing for 20 years that he was funny. Yes. And you don't understand how funny I am. This next movie, you're going to understand it. But any movie success he's had, there's some Rocky. There's some funny Rocky III, Rocky IV scenes with Pauly. But for the most part, nobody's coming to Stallone for humor. It's funny, though, because now as he gets older,

I think when James Gunn uses him, like in Guardians of the Galaxy movies, or he was in The Suicide Squad as a giant shark. The idea there is there's something really funny about putting Sylvester Stallone in these movies because we've come all the way back around to, is this self-parody? Does he know the bit?

But pure comedy never really worked. Was he ever actually... Because, like, Kindergarten Cop for Schwarzenegger. And Twins. And Twins.

Legitimately funny. Yeah. You know, he really... He could do... He had comic timing. Stallone is something different. He's a really unique person. I can't really compare him to anybody else as I think about what his career was. The ebbs and flows.

He was 5'7", which I think is instructive. A little Napoleonic. Put on a bunch of weight somewhere between First Blood and Rocky IV. Rocky III, he's cut, but he's probably weighing, like, I don't know, 170. But he's, like, just, you know, he has no body fat.

But then he goes in that 85 range. And I don't know whether Schwarzenegger got in his head a little bit or what happened, but you see, like, Rambo, Part II, Rocky IV. Like, he's just absolutely ripped, like, almost to an obscene way. And I do feel like he was competing with Arnold a little bit. Like, he's just absolutely ripped. Like, almost to an obscene way. And I do feel like he was competing with Arnold a little bit. The Terminator might have gotten his head like a tiny bit. And Arnold really does kind of overtake him after 85.

There's no question. In 85, it is Stallone's year. He is at the absolute center of mainstream movie culture. And then as the Terminator movies come along, as Total Recall comes along, as that whole wave of Schwarzenegger in the 90s comes along. It started with Running Man. It was 87 where it started to kind of flip. They were neck and neck, but

Schwarzenegger became a season ticket guy, probably 86, 87 range. And then nine straight years if he made a movie, he went. There's no question. Stallone's reaction to what would be perceived as losing power is really interesting. Because in some cases, he does stuff like Oscar, which doesn't work.

But then he's like, I got to get my diehard. So I'll do cliffhanger. And it works. And it's a hit. It's not a Rambo-sized hit, but it's a pretty big hit. And it's still a really well-liked movie. So his radar is like really funky. Sometimes he knows exactly what to do.

Like he created the Expendables. He found a way to revive funky. Sometimes he knows exactly what to do. Like he created the expendables. He found a way to revive himself, whether we like those movies or not. Every 10 years, he's like, I got a new idea. I got, I got no way to get back in the culture. Even now I feel like a little of this Rocky stuff is like, Hey, don't forget I'm Sylvester Stallone. It doesn't matter how old I am. I'm Sylvester Stallone. He also got really helped by the, uh, the-watchability of his movies and all the marathons especially yeah the movies were just on all the time is the especially the Rocky and I think the Rocky just kept moving into new generations so that kept like buying him

time but there was a weird so I had the stretches basically everything until 81, like that Stallone coming on the scene and becoming a major star. And then 82 from 80, 82 to 87, he almost flies too close to the sun. And which can be good in some ways and bad in some other ways. 88 to 97 is him just trying to reclaim the throne. And it's all over the map.

But you get lockup and you get Tango and Cash in the same year. You get Oscar. Stop my mama shoot. You get the. Stop, My Mom Will Shoot. You get the cliffhanger comeback. Then he rips off. He does Assassins. And it's going to be like, oh, him and Sharon Stone together.

And their sex scene is one of the weirdest sex scenes of probably any 90s movie. It's Specialists. I'm sorry. Then the Assassins, too. They're right. Specialists and Assassins. Judge Dredd. Demolition Man.

And he's just cranking them out because he's trying to catch up with with Arnold Daylight I thought was good I'm actually in on Daylight I think it's solid I wanted everyone else

to die in the movie other than him and Amy Brenneman everyone else is the most annoying people you actually don't want him to save them they're mad at him

the whole time it's got the people on the bus and speed energy kind of on steroids. It's like, this dude's trying to save you. Why are you being so shitty to him? And then Copland, and then it's over.

And then from basically 98 to 2013, he's just trying to stay relevant. Like, even you think about The Contender, which was the boxing reality series they had with him at the forefront. And it was like, Stallone moves into reality then he does Was it him and Sugar Ray?

Yeah, him and Sugar Ray. Then he did the Rocky Balboa comeback movie which was just ludicrous. Watchable. I remember that movie being pretty critically acclaimed and I remember reading

your column about it and you being disappointed. Yeah. I was too hard on it. I just thought he was too old but I think people just were so happy to have the character back. Especially after Rocky V.

But then Creed, I think Creed reinvented him in a lot of ways. And also, it brought him into black culture in a way that I think was, he'd really never come close to that. I can't think of any other movie other than the Apollo Creed character. Yeah, he doesn't have a Scarface or an Untouchables or anything like that in his career. It's funny, 06 Rocky Balboa, 08 Rambo,

2010 The Expendables. Those are three in a row. All reasonable to big successes and all like working very hard to say, don't forget

I'm the guy who does this or I'm the guy who does this or I can still make this. The Expendables seems to be a reaction to this like team up movie culture. That movie was famed for having brought together

a lot of action heroes from different generations. I wasn't a huge fan. I know you weren't either. It always felt a little like a low-rent franchise to me. It didn't seem fully baked. His move, if I was in charge of his career, I would have gotten him into the Fast and Furious franchise in the Kurt Russell role.

I think he needed to be a secondary piece in a giant movie like that or like the Avengers franchise. Something where he's in it, he's not the main guy, but he feels relevant. Yeah, he never wants to take, with the exception of what he does in the Creed movies,

he doesn't really want to do the mentor thing. He wants to be the guy. He still wants to be the guy. He still makes these movies like backtrace and reach me and he's made he's kind of gotten into like vod territory with some of his movies in the last 10 years but he's the number one face on the poster you know i mean he's not he's like i'm not gonna be michael caine i'm not gonna be the eighth lead in your prestige drama he never works that way he's not interested you just gave me bruce i'm still dealing with the Bruce

Willis. It's brutal. You go to Hulu and there's just these new movies and it's got the three people and the five people and there's like Bruce on the side. And it's just like, can we, can we take Bruce off the posters? Like, this is awful. Yeah. It's like Michael Jai White. Yeah. Rene Russo's daughter. Thomas Jane. Thomas Jane and Bruce Willis. And there's Bruce is kind of looking at him where the camera is. It's terrible. It's daughter. Thomas Jane. Thomas Jane and Bruce Willis. And there's Bruce. Bruce is kind of looking at him where the camera is. He's wearing a space helmet. It's terrible.

It's brutal. It's awful. So Stallone, that didn't happen to him. I think Creed III, he was supposed to die was the big rumor. And he threw his body

in front of it. And, you know, he smartly doesn't want to kill Rocky Balboa because you're kind of killing Stallone at that point. Yep. Yep.

It is his legacy for sure. Creed III coming out next year, but he's not featured in the film. I don't even know if he's in it. The word on the street was that he's not in it and that's part of why he's battling with these dudes now. But I'm also not sure we needed a Creed III. We're going to find out.

Coming out in 2023. We didn't mention Rocky V, which was when it really turned. I know that hurt you personally. Yeah, I think it hurt all the Stallone fans because it was right during this daylight, I mean, not daylight, tango and cash and lockup, and the Rocky V was the next year.

And when that one didn't work, that was like the sports team missing the playoffs. Like when the Pats lost that week 17 game to Miami and Ryan Fitzpatrick and it's like, wait, we're not going to win

the division and you could just feel the Grim Reaper coming. That was Rocky V. A little bit of where the Red Sox might be right now. Well, yeah,

the Red Sox are good. The Mookie Betts trade was that for the Red Sox. Rocky V, Oscar Stopper, my mom will shoot territory for them right now. Is this their era? They are.

It's pretty brutal. So are the Patriots, ironically. Thank God. Yeah, you finally got your wish well the jet still sucks so i'm not sure that i did but i his career is one of one as you would say well the other piece was the brigitte nielsen thing we didn't even talk about that. Like when, so he goes off the rails in two ways. One, he directs the Saturday Night Fever sequel that he puts himself in for a split second, which I think is like one of the five best, five best ego moves of the 80s.

He's wearing like a fur coat. It's like, what's happening? He's listed as man on street. Yeah. His brother is doing the songs and it's just like, he's lost his mind after 1982. He's, again again he flew too close to the sun

and then the other one was Brigitte Nielsen who he just fell in love with this six foot two Danish lady and he just puts her in his next two films he just

shoehorns her in now other people did this right Clint Eastwood with Sandra Locke who I always thought was a solid C minus maybe a D plus

I liked her actually and Clint was just putting her in for 20 years, was in his movies. So it's not like Sly was the only one, but this was pretty alarming. I would say she doesn't fit into Cobra.

Like, in Cobra, you're like, why is this woman in this movie? Wearing a bad wig. Ironically, her best movie was Cop 2, which was supposed to originally be a Stallone movie. But that was the only time anyone ever used her correctly. I mean, look, I love her as Ludmilla Drago. She was hilarious, but I think unintentionally hilarious.

But she fit that part in a way. You raise an interesting thing about him too, which is that he's got a lot of near misses. All his casting what-ifs, sliding door stuff, could have been the star of Romancing the Stone, could have been the star of Beverly Hills Cop. He was almost in a bunch of other great franchises and had a lot of other opportunities and then missed out on those for whatever reason. I think Beverly Hills Cop was the big one because he had Rambo, who was the war guy.

He had Rocky, who was the sports movie guy. And then he didn't have the cop. Right. And he's just searching for the cop in the 80s because he didn't get Beverly Hills Cop. It blows up. It becomes a big one, right? So then that's how you end up with Cobra. That's how you end up with Tango and Cash. And then even Copland.

He just can't get it. But really, this is one of my things I said in the Tango and Cash pod. They should have made like five Tango and Caches. Him and Kurt Russell are great together. That could have just kept going. The first one, it was really disjointed and whatever. But I actually think that could have been his buddy cop. Was that movie a big hit?

Yeah. It made like $125 million. Oh, that's pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. It's a great career. You want to build the Hall of Fame? Yeah, let's do it.

So we've never done one of these together. So usually what we do is we go through every single film on an actress filmography and we either say yay or nay. If we're not sure, we'll use the red, yellow, green. So green is automatically in no matter what. Yellow is maybe we think probably not, but we could potentially make it green. And red is absolutely not. So I had eight greens and five yellows, but we could potentially make it green, and red is absolutely not. So I had eight greens and five yellows,

but we could go through it. Well, let's debate a little bit. You had more yellows than that, I think. You are no doubt more of an expert than I am on Stolo, which is why you're here. But let's, so, you know, famously he got his start in a softcore movie. Yeah, that one that make my, the Italian Stallion, they renamed it. They renamed it.

It was originally the Party at Kitty and Studs. He was the titular stud. Recast or renamed the Italian Stallion after he became famous. This is obviously not in the Hall of Fame. As much as I love Stallone, I did not go out of my way to watch his performance in that movie. Is that movie findable? I'm not sure. I think it's on the internets.

So one thing that's really funny about him in this time is he's really trying hard to get into Hollywood. So he has a bunch of movies in which he's basically barely acknowledged. He's more or less a glorified extra in MASH, in Woody Allen's Bananas, in Clute, and in The Prisoner of Second Avenue. All of those films, he's basically like a stand-in.

He's in No Place to Hide in 1973, which I have not seen. Have you seen that one? Don't know that one. So there's no way that's going. He's in a couple like Kojak Police Story, a couple of TV. Those were like really big TV stuff. Yes. He's in the Lords of Flatbush in 74, which I think is the first kind of biggish movie that he's in. It's an okay greaser movie. It's kind of like a Happy Days prequel in a way. Harry Winkler's in this movie wearing a leather jacket

looking like the Fonz. My mom loved this movie growing up for whatever reason. I guess she loved the Fonz. Not going in the Hall of Fame I don't think. Even though it's kind of

important to his career because he gets a starring-ish role. No way. He plays Frank Nitti in Capone from 1975. Okay movie.

Not a Hall of Famer. Who was Capone in that movie? Wasn't I don't I know I saw it a million years oh Ben Gazzara Ben Gazzara okay yeah um not a classic I watched Death Race 2000 for the first time this past weekend he has a supporting part in this movie this is a Roger Corman movie from 75 that's a huge rip off of Rollerball yeah it. It's like Rollerball meets It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World.

I thought it was pretty fun. Yeah? Yeah. It was on Tubi. Tubi is incredible. There's like 18 stolen movies on Tubi. I don't watch Rollerball ripoffs,

so I have not seen Death Race. Fair enough. That's not going in the Hall of Fame either. And then 76. Wait a second. So you watched Death Race 2000, which he has a supporting role in,

but not lockup? I couldn't find lockup. Which has one of the great football but not Lock Up. I couldn't find Lock Up. Which has one of the great football scenes of all time. I didn't want to pay for anything. Interesting. Okay. You know, I was like, do I want to spend five bucks on Lock Up or can I just watch Death Race 2000? Also, Death Race 2000 is like an hour and 20 minutes.

Lock Up's good. Okay. I'm going to watch it afterwards. Yeah. Lock Up's like, I recommend it. There's a football scene in it that is in the running for probably top five best sports extended scenes that isn't in a sports movie. Why does this movie have no reputation?

Because people got burned out on Stallone, man. It happens. We see this happen over and over again with our most famous actors. They have this five to eight-year window and it happened to schwarzenegger it happened to him and you know by the time eraser came out people were just they were good with schwarzenegger they'd spent the movies to see him eight nine ten times gotta do an arnold one of these at some point arnold interestingly has completely more or less stopped making movies he's made a couple in the last five

years but obviously he had his gubernatorial era and he's had some controversies, but he doesn't make movies the same way as Stallone does. Stallone really, he stuck it out. He's never really stopped. Well, they made one together. I didn't mind Escape Plan. I thought it was okay.

Did you know that there were three Escape Plan movies? I did not. I mean, I know that. I've only seen the first one. That's really weird that he also turned that into a franchise, but anyway, he persists. I'm going to watch Lockup. Okay, I know that. I've only seen the first one. That's really weird that he also turned that into a franchise. But anyway, he persists. I'm going to watch Lockup.

Okay, let's go 76 is Rocky. Of course, Rocky. So that's our first one. Automatic green, right? Yeah. Can we talk about Fist for a second? Yeah, it's not on my list. Okay, so I think it's pretty good.

Yeah, but he's a yellow. There's a case to be made that it is among his 10 best performances. Interesting. He's basically case to be made that it is among his 10 best performances. Interesting. He's basically playing Jimmy Hoffa. He's playing a union organizer and leader.

That's why I haven't seen the movie probably since the late 70s. I mean, it's a... Who sliced the learners? Jimmy Hoffa. It's ridiculous.

He's not exactly Jimmy Hoffa, but he's a guy who essentially, like, unionizes truckers and teamsters. And the movie follows him across his whole life. Like, by the end of the movie, he's a guy who essentially like unionizes truckers and teamsters. And the movie follows him across his whole life. Like by the end of the movie, he's in like old man makeup and has gray hair.

It's like a real like, not quite cradle to grave, but it's a Norman Jewison drama about a union leader. It's a pretty good movie. I might revisit it. Joe Esterhaus was one of the writers. So it's Joe Esterhaus' first script. Stalloneone rewrote the movie stallone said the script was 400 pages that was basically written the way that a book was written because joe esterhouse did not know

how to write scripts but he said the story that he wrote was great it's melinda dylan it's tony lobianco i was gonna say my girl melinda dylan's in this it's it's a pretty good it's like a real hollywood movie it's his first movie after Rocky, does not have a big reputation. I saw it a long time ago because I was curious about it. Anyway, I just want to put it out there as like a,

hey, this is why I was saying, was his career maybe a little different than it could have been if not for Rambo? Yeah, I think the fist

Paradise Alley Nighthawks threesome, I think has been just lost and still in history. It's kind of unique. Those movies are also super old. Yeah, Paradise Alley I think is a little less successful. This is like a old. Yeah, Paradise Alley, I think, is a little less successful.

This was like a pro wrestling movie, Paradise Alley, but it's a little bit like schlockier, a little goofier. It's not good. It's not very good. I don't think that's going in. He plays Cosmo Carboni. They were like, how do we make this guy the most Italian name possible? It was like Mario Carboni?

No, Mario's not Italian enough. How about Cosmo? He does this a handful. I mean, you've already seen Rocky Balboa, so he does this over and over again. He also wrote and directed Paradise Alley. That's the other thing is, early on, he was like, I'm in charge.

Yeah. Pretty impressive. Paradise Alley's no good. Rocky, too. So, I mean, spoiler alert, I think one, three, and four all have to be on. And I couldn't figure out two because then there's four. I only have six spots left.

This is why this is a fun Hall of Fame. I know. I think it ends up making it for the last 30 minutes. The last 30 minutes of Rocky II are arguably the best 30 minutes of the whole franchise. People are crying in the movie theater. Yeah, it's amazing. The first hour and a half of Rocky II. I've made this joke before, but when Adrian goes in a coma,

it mirrors what happens to the audience for about 15 minutes. It is the longest, most excruciating coma scene. It doesn't end. He goes to church. He comes back. He starts to learn how to read. Long scenes of Rocky reading next to her. Then he's in church again.

Mickey's coming with his hat and it's just, oh my God, it's so long. But then the last, the moment Mickey goes, what are we waiting for?

Then it's just off. It's an amazing last one, five minutes. So I think it has to be on. Audiences agree. This movie is a massive hit. Yeah.

And like you said, it pretty much changes his career. The fact that he did this and then went on to do, I guess, seven more Rocky movies after this. They also redid the Rocky theme in a way that I actually

kind of like more than the original Rocky theme. Where it's like that piano. It's a remix. Yeah, it's good. And he directed this one. Yeah. It's a remix. Yeah, it's good. And he directed this one. Yeah. It's got to go in.

I have the first four Rockies I think have to be in. So basically we have six spots left. Nighthawks is probably not going in, but I do want to say Rutger Hauer's US film debut is not Blade Runner. It's Nighthawks.

People need to recognize that. Rutger Hauer is really good in Nighthawks. Stallone is actually not very good and has a really weird beard in this movie. But an iconic beard that then he brings back for Rocky IV. Oh, that's right. Yeah. His facial hair grows in an odd way.

I don't mind Stallone in this movie. My issue was I didn't think Billy Dee Williams was very good. He's not. This is kind of the end of his run too. Yeah, there's this three-year window where people thought Billy Dee Williams was like Denzel and he just wasn't... No.

Wasn't a very good actor. But I don't... I was trying to think of other people that could have been in that spot instead of him. Like, if you put 1989 Denzel in that movie, Nighthawks is a totally different animal. We're taking that.

But they didn't have the perfect person to put in with him there. Morgan Freeman? He wasn't a thing yet. I don't... You couldn't have the perfect person to put in with them there. Morgan Freeman? He wasn't a thing yet. You couldn't have put him on the poster, right? I mean, it speaks more to how crappy Hollywood was at the time with diversity, but Billy Dee Williams would just get these parts, and he was

fine, but really, Colt 45 was the peak of Billy Dee Williams. Well, Lando Calrissian. I know you don't acknowledge Star Wars. No, I get it. He's great. By the way, I loved him in Star Wars. But he never was able to recapture it.

He's really good in Bigelow Longs, Traveling All-Stars. That's probably my other favorite Billy Dee movie. Is he in Lady Sings the Blues? Yeah. He's in a couple of good movies. But it's over by 80, 81 range. He never made it happen. By the way, you mentioned Nighthawks.

Sly plays Deke DeSalva in this? Coming off of Cosmo Carbodi? I mean, we haven't gotten to Cobretti yet, but he does this over and over, and he loves the Italian surname. I really like Nighthawks. I know it's flawed.

I know it's not great, but I think it's an unusual early 80s movie. I like the idea of a cop being responsible for finding a terrorist. That's like not how

we would tell a terrorist story. A street cop. You know, like a guy who's just on the force in the precinct and needs to track down this, what is he,

a Danish terrorist? That's absurd. And he's thrown 100 miles an hour at Rucker Howard. He's the best part of the movie. He's awesome. 81's got a lot of? That's absurd. And he's thrown 100 miles an hour, Rucker Howard. He's the best part of the movie. He's awesome. 81's got a lot of weird movies like that.

It's got altered states. It's got eyewitness. None of them did that well, but all of them are cool and have really famous or soon-to-be-famous actors and cool roles. It's the last stand.

It's all the movies that got greenlit before the new Hollywood basically got his head chopped off. Yeah. I like Nighthawks. So, Victory... I like it. It doesn't make head chopped off. Yeah. I like Nighthawks. So Victory. I like it. It doesn't make it though

for me. For Nighthawks. Yeah, I agree. It's not in. Victory, aka Escape to Victory. Now, longtime favorite of yours.

I definitely became aware of this movie because of you writing about it. I don't think it's very good despite all of the component parts

being really cool. Yeah. You and Chris did a rewatchables about it years ago. I mean, it's very good despite all of the component parts being really cool yeah you and chris did a rewatchables about it years ago i mean it's it's it's the best best soccer movie ever filmed okay the soccer scenes it actually might be the best sports extended sports sequence ever filmed okay and they filmed it widescreen john hou Houston really cared about soccer he used all real players and the sequences having Pele in there it's actually kind of amazing

but everything leading up to it is slow and Stallone's character is bizarre so I have it as a yellow okay let's leave it as a yellow for now

yeah Rocky III you said this is already automatically going in yeah I think this is, I think 82 is the peak of Stallone's career because both of those

movies are awesome. So Rocky III and First Blood both have to go in and are both good. First Blood's the best movie ever made. It's either that

or Creed for me. Rocky, I'm talking about like watching them now. Are you saying Rocky III is the best one? No, I'm saying First Blood and Creed. Are the best movies that he ever made?

Just for right now, if you're re-watching them. I think if people watch Rocky now, they'd be like, man, this is slow. But I think First Blood, I can't believe how well that holds up. That movie's 40 years old. That movie's amazing. I like it a lot. And I think Creed's really good creed's really grown on me i loved it when it came out and i think it's really

stood the test of time as like a hall of fame awesome sports movie and he's great in it the thing that's unusual about first blood is so much of the movie is basically like a silent film. It's basically just him hiding, trying to avoid capture from Brian Dennehy and the cops. And it's like a real survivalist movie. It's not, it's just not the movie

that people think it is. It's not the movie that is like him holding a giant machine gun and shooting it at a thousand terrorists. Like, that's not really what that story is about.

And he's got the speech at the end, which is probably the best acting he's done. It's got to be in the running. But yeah, it's a Vietnam movie. It's actually being forgotten. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And coming back in the airport and does the whole thing. It's just excellent. It's the tail end of this Vietnam, the first wave of the Vietnam movies. And then we kind of start shifting into the Missing in Action Rambo 2 wave. So it's the bridge movie to those. Yeah. But I think that movie

actually has something to say. And the first 25 minutes are just out of control how good it is. From the moment Brian Dennehy starts fucking with him to when he finally

gets in the mat and he basically takes out the guys one by one. Caruso and all those guys. It's just no movie in the mat and he and he basically takes out the guys one by one caruso and all those guys like it's just you no movie in the early 80s moved like that it moves like a movie now but movies didn't move like that in 1982 i wonder how much of a hand he had in those kinds of decisions you know like was he pushing the pace yeah i don't know it's interesting because he has he has flexed so much power throughout the production of his movies okay

so rocky three and first blood of his movies okay so Rocky 3 and First Blood are both obviously and so we've already got four that are in and we're only in 1983 yeah staying alive as you said

director, writer, producer the sequel the completely unnecessary sequel to Saturday Night Fever I don't mind that they tried it though I think it's cool that this is

it just was a bad idea I think him saying I want to is something... It just was a bad idea. I think him saying, I want to be a great filmmaker in addition to being a great movie star is one of the things that differentiates him and makes him basically unlike anybody other than like, I mean, Robert Redford. There's a very short list.

Clint Eastwood. You know, we talked about this with Unforgiven. There's not a lot of guys who are like, I do it all. You know, Burtnolds didn't really do it all he's needed the hal needhams of the world it's just that staying alive is really bad it's like kind of unwatchably bad and not even really that funny anymore no it's still funny is it yeah it's still funny you know it's something that crosses over though from being like laughable to like

it's just sad that this exists now the The opening credits are still hilarious. Okay. It's hard read. It's not going in. No way. Rhinestone also not going in. This is the movie that he took on and passed on romancing the stone to make this movie. He says when he signed on,

Mike Nichols was supposed to be the director. Don't remember reading that in the Mike Nichols book. I don't either. Yeah. This is a quasi-musical starring Doon he loves dolly had a great time with dolly he but this is the thing you people did this back then they they really tried to zag super hard and i kind of miss those days yeah i don't feel like anybody does that anymore no no actor well first of all we don't have actors anymore that are as famous as the ones we had in the 80s but it's true it's like if Chris Evans zagged nobody would care I was bringing up

Chris Evans as my stereotypical like whatever did it Ryan Reynolds like Ryan Reynolds was zagged nobody really cares but Sly was like Sly's gonna be in a movie with Dolly Parton and he's gonna sing country music like it like blew your mind It would seem like such a big gamble. Even just the way that those two people look, Sylvester Stallone and Dolly Parton on a poster. Yeah.

I mean, you just cited two examples of two actors, two actors that, you know, I like well enough, but Ryan Reynolds and Chris Evans

basically look the same. They have the same haircut, the same height, they have the same build, they have the same sense of humor, same comic persona in movies. They're kind of the same. Nobody looked like Sly or Dolly.

Nobody ever looked like those two people. And that's one thing that is different too. One of my hottest takes ever is that Rhinestone is not bad. Okay. Like, Staying Alive is bad.

Rhinestone's not bad. So, directed by Bob Clark, who directed Black Christmas, Porky's, and The Christmas Story. Yeah. Pretty legendary Canadian filmmaker. I definitely saw this in the 90s and never thought about it again. I don't know. It's been a long time. Dolly's good Canadian filmmaker. I definitely saw this in the 90s

and never thought about it again. I don't know. It's been a long time. Dolly's good in it. Dolly had this run where, like, I mean, in 9 to 5, she was a comet.

Yep. But I actually think her movie career should have been bigger. Best Little Whorehouse in Texas is right around this time. Rhinestone in 9 to 5. That's kind of like

her big 80s set of movies. Yeah, but there was more. There should have been a rom-com with her. Like, they didn't know what to do with her. It's true. She's like one of those centers who could shoot threes in the 90s. People are like, what is this?

Yeah, she was the… Arvita Sabonis, I don't know. Who was the Pacers center? Oh, Rick Smith. Rick Smith, yeah. Yeah, she's like, Rick Smith's like 7'4", and he plays face in the basket? Rambo First Blood Part II, yeah. Yeah, she's like, Rick Smith's like 7'4", and he plays Face in the Basket? Rambo First Blood Part II, 1985. I mean, this is...

This is probably the biggest movie he ever made, right? I think so. This and Rocky IV are the two highest-grossing films. Yeah. So I feel like those are both going in as well.

There's just no way you weren't seeing either of those in the theater in 1985. Like, unless you were handcuffed to the radiator or something, you were going. Should we have set some parameters where we could only do a certain number of movies

from franchises? Well, that's why I was thinking, I had Rocky II on the fence, just because if we wanted to say three or four. So we have seven now? I think that's okay, though. If we include Rocky IV, we have two, four, six already in.

Right. And we're in 1986. That's fine. We're fine. Now, Cobra. You've already done it on the rewatchables. 1986. That's fine. We're fine. Now, Cobra. You've already done it on the rewatchables. Yeah.

It's an unintentional comedy classic. It can't be in the Hall of Fame, but it belongs to our hearts. Okay. I have it as a yellow. My favorite part

of this movie, it's definitively yellow teetering on red, but my favorite part of this movie is the antagonists Yeah. who are in a death

cult yeah about starting like a new society yes which is one of the like truly craziest setups for a quote-unquote mainstream movie now this movie is produced by canon the kind of famed schlock house kind of low budget high budget movie studio we've never really seen a movie studio like this ever again where they were sort of like simultaneously working with top tier talent, but making really, really like dingy seeming movies. This one, it might be like, it might be their pinnacle. It might be the Canon pinnacle. It's about a cult that doesn't have a mission. Yeah. They just kind of want to be scary and go around and kill people but there's no end game and like the leadership is a little confusing it's a really odd movie um when we

did the rewatchables about it it made more sense because they said they basically just cut out like 25 minutes they stallone got really scared about top gun and they wanted to put in as many theaters as possible i think it came out like a week or two after Top Gun. And then the last minute they chopped 20 minutes so that they could have more theatrical windows. And it makes sense because the movie's incoherent. It's also, it's like an hour and 25 minutes and it feels like 20 minutes too long.

Like it's one of those movies. Well, think about the two hour version, which by the way, I would watch. Over the Top. This is a sentimental favorite. I had it as a yellow. I think it as a yellow. I think it's a weirdly important Stallone movie.

Yep. Willing to be debated for the top spot. It's so strange. Growing up in New York, this movie was playing on WPIX like every other Sunday. It was on all the time. So I liked it. People ask me when it's going to be on the rewatchables.

I think it really had long legs when it's going to be on the rewatchables. I think it really had long legs because it's like a family movie. It's like weirdly the only family movie that I think he's made. I was going to say

I think if you saw it as a kid, you've got a place in your heart for it because the arm wrestling sequences, they have a little bit of the Rocky magic.

They have a little bit of that like you're pumped up. You're rooting along with him. Lincoln Hawk. Yeah. It's early forerunner to the gambling culture i think there's a lot of seeds there

the sammy hagar song was a thing winner takes it all was like a massive song it was really important the video was great and the the 11 year old kid figuring out how to get himself to vegas remains one of the great achievements by a little kid in a movie. Somehow, he drives a car, he's 11, to the airport, gets out, buys a ticket, lands, knows where to go. Incredible.

So I mentioned canon. This is also a canon movie. This is a movie that is directed by one of the co-founders and co-leaders of canon, Menachem Golem. And it is not well-directed, is what I'll say. It's not. And there's some people from the 80s that you don't know if they're real people or not.

And Menachem Golem is one of those that that person may have not existed. He did. He was a wild character. Mustafa Akkad was another one. I had no idea if that was a real person. The producer of Halloween. Yeah. No idea if that was a real person or it was a character this mafia syndicate created pretending

that it was a movie producer. I don't know. I think we would have been in a worse place as a movie culture without those guys. We need those guys. Oh, yeah. We need these guys to come in from foreign lands and to provide money and crazy ideas for Hollywood. They knew what they wanted. They either wanted horror or action. They wanted big stars and to provide money and crazy ideas for Hollywood. They knew what they wanted.

They either wanted horror or action. They wanted big stars, and they had a lot of money to spend. Loved it. Yeah, they didn't care about the art. In 100 meters, turn right. Actually, no. Turn left. There's some awesome new breakfast wraps at McDonald's.

Really? Yeah. There's the sausage, bacon, and egg. A crispy seasoned chicken one. Mmm. A spicy end egg. Worth the detour. They sound amazing.

Bet they taste amazing too. Ah, wish I had a mouth. Take your morning into a delicious new direction with McDonald's new breakfast wraps. Add a small premium roast coffee for a dollar plus tax. At participating McDonald's restaurants. Ba-da-ba-ba-ba. Rambo 3 comes after Over the Top. No. Rambo 3 comes after Over the Top. Rambo 3 is bad.

You mentioned Rocky 4 we threw in, right? We did. I mean, Rocky 4. And it ended the Cold War. You kind of skipped past it. I apologize.

Incredible. One of the great villains of all time in Drago. Okay, so lock up. Rambo 3 was really disappointing. It was 3 was really disappointing. It was.

It's bad. But not in disappointing like Rocky 5, but it just... We didn't really have a true enemy at that point was the real issue with it. We were kind of between enemies, but Stallone wanted to make it to the Rambo. And like three years later, it makes more sense.

Three years earlier, it makes more sense. But 88 was not the time. It's a movie like out of time in a lot of ways too like it doesn't there's nothing that he accomplishes in two like there was no unfinished business you know we weren't like we need to go back like he did it you know he settled the score it would have been more interesting if he like was ran for political office in rainbow three and it just did a complete turn and was trying to become like a civilian and then got dragged back anyway there was I think they could have gone

even harder in the other direction which is to say like made him like even more crazy and even more like disillusioned and like made him into like almost like a villainous figure but they didn't they didn't really do that either like obviously he's pitched as a villain in the first film but in fact he's, you know, more the victim. But anyway, what was the plot of Rambo three? Oh,

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his, his, his, his, Afghanistan. Yeah, they done... Soviet Union is like crumbling at that point. Trauma News, Richard Crenna? Yeah. Movie made no sense. Lockup. You're not putting it in, are you?

I did have it as a yellow. Okay. Yeah. I like Lockup. Just because it has an incredible sports sequence. No, Lockup's good. Okay. But I just don't think it's got the cachet as some of the other ones. Come back when we do the Prison Movie Hall of Fame.

Oh, yeah. Because that could be some rich text there. Preaching the choir in that one. I've seen every prison movie. I wanted them to have a movie channel called Bars, with a Z, B-A-R-Z. It's just all prison movies. It's a really good idea.

It's a really good idea. Yeah, I would flick over to Bars every day. It should at least be in Pluto. Where are you at on Brubaker? Oh, come on. Great. One of the best premises of a movie ever. Love that. The Jericho Mile is like my probably third favorite Michael Mann movie. It's pretty great.

Yeah. I love the Oz. I love all prison, anything. Not Green Mile though. It's too long. Darabont was just feeling it. He was on an, on an absolute bender of a heat check. He's like, I made Shawshank.

Green Mile's gonna be three hours. It should not have been. Yeah. You just did Tango and Cash on the rewatchables. This is another one that people have wanted

for a long time. It's a, it's an absolute hard yellow and in discussion for whatever the higher group is. Huge fan of this one.

Yeah. HBO classic for me growing up. Yellow for Tango and Cash. Rocky V. The problem with Tango and Cash is Russell is better than Sly in the movie. I mean, he's a better actor. Yeah. But he's like just, he wins it. Like Shay and I, we did it.

And he's like, he clearly won the movie. He has the better part though too. I would argue Stallone was really fired up to be a stockbroker with glasses on and had the quick-witted. I think he really thought that was going to be a breakout character. Did you talk about if they had flipped roles?

No, because it wouldn't have made sense. What I always wanted for that movie, I may have said this before. It's a good idea. We should have talked about that. There's that show True West that Sam Shepard play. And when Philip Seymour Hoffman

and John C. Reilly did it on Broadway, they flipped parts every night. So one night if you went, Hoffman played

the older brother and one night if you went, Hoffman played the younger brother. And so I saw it twice when it was out and I got a chance

to see them in separate parts. They should have filmed the movie with them flipping the parts. We would need even more directors. There's three directors that did this movie. It would have been hard.

But isn't that a good idea for a movie, though? Shouldn't some movie do that where they flip? Anyway. So the reason they did it that way was the Cash character that Kurt Russell played is just a direct Martin Riggs ripoff. Totally. Right down to the hair. And Stallone had clean. So I don't know how they would have flipped that.

Yeah. But I'm still with you. That's a good one. We talked about that when we did The Departed. If Leo and Damon had flipped roles, was the movie better? I want a movie to be produced though that way, where you can go see one or the other.

That would be a lot of fun. Where there's two DVDs of it basically. Yeah, like the movie Clue, there's three endings and when it came out, you didn't know two DVDs of it, basically. Yeah, like the movie Clue, there's three endings. And when it came out, you didn't know which ending you were going to get. Yeah. Anyway, we need to get more creative in the movie world. Rocky V is hard red. Hard red, blow it up with a bunch of dog shit and send it to the sun.

That movie sucks. Oscar? He plays Angelo snaps provolone angelo provolone angelo provolone it's the load just make it up the funniest thing is in cliffhanger he plays gabe walker it's like all right i give up i'm gonna have enough normal names now it's great that he's like i'm gonna be mickey mozzarella you know gabe Game problem. That's really funny. Stop or My Mom Will Shoot. Just horrific.

I mean, the combo of Rocky V Oscar and Stop or My Mom Will Shoot, it felt like his career was over. Stop or My Mom Will Shoot did okay business, though. And it was a hit overseas. Because he could be sold overseas. It was not a hit in America. It was not. It felt like his career was over. With that said, when Cliffhanger was coming out,

amazing trailer. They caught Janine Turner at the absolute perfect time. She was red hot in North Exposure. And I flew to Florida to see with my buddy Gus. Why did you fly to Florida? Because I was due for a trip and it was coming out and I timed it for the weekend it came out so I could see Cliffhanger with my... Because Gus was my my Stallone we were like Stallone guys we we love Stallone so yeah okay

couple things on my little window of my life on my rewatch and I won't trample on a rewatchables but some of the one of the best you want to be on the rewatchables for a million percent yeah I loved it it's fucking great it's so good one of the single best opening 10 minutes of an action movie ever. Although they don't pay off the Michael Rooker angry look at Stallone. It's a breadcrumb for him getting fucked over later and then they never do it. So when I rewatched it, I watched it with my wife who'd never seen it before. She was having the time of her life. We were laughing the whole time. When that happened, I literally turned to her and said, don't forget that look.

It's going to pay off down the road. And I was wrong. I think I'd just seen so many movies where Michael Rooker was the bad guy. And I realized he never turns. He never turns on Stallone. Anyway. The big thing is that Lithgow, other than Alan Rickman and Die Hard, he does the best Alan Rickman character of anybody post-Die Hard

trying to do Alan Rickman. What accent is He does the best Alan Rickman character of anybody post Die Hard trying to do Alan Rickman. Who? What? What accent is he using? It doesn't matter. He's just going for it. Because he already has that, you know,

that sort of like Atlantic Coast kind of Catherine Hepburn style. He's like Hamlet as a terrorist. Yeah. But in the movie, it's like even more so. Yeah.

He's going for it. Great movie. I loved it. I think it's in. Oh. There's no question it's like even more so. Yeah. He's going for it. Great movie. I loved it. I think it's in. Oh. There's no question it's in. Great.

There's zero debate. Huge comeback for him. That movie's fantastic. Really good. By the way, that's a movie that really got helped by the TVs once we got widescreen. Because that was, in the theater, a fucking awesome movie. Like, really cool. I watched a 4K Blu-ray of this movie, and it was awesome. Yeah.

Another movie I really liked was Demolition Man, upon revisiting it. I re-watched that this weekend, too movie, and it was awesome. Yeah. Another movie I really liked was Demolition Man, upon revisiting it. I re-watched that this weekend, too. I thought it was pretty funny. You know, it's a sci-fi satire starring Wesley Snipes and Sly as two...

And Bullock's in it. And Sandra Bullock in an early role. Benjamin Bratt. It's got a really good cast, actually. And it's an odd tone. It feels more like a Schwarzenegger movie than a Stallone movie. It feels more like one of the Verhoeven movies

than it does something that Stallone would make. That being said, I think we were talking about how Stallone isn't funny. I think this might be the funniest he's ever been in a movie. It's a good movie. It got lost. There was just a lot of movies that kind of ran, that 93, 94, 95,

and they were just being shot out like a t-shirt cannon. And it just kind of got lost. I feel like if it had come out three years earlier, it would have been a way bigger movie for him. If you just flip it with Oscar, it's huge in 1991. Oh, interesting. You know what I mean? Yeah.

It's a lot more clever than I realized. People like that movie. I think that's a legitimately popular Stallone movie. I had it as a hard yellow. I think that it's in the mix. I don't think The Specialist is in the mix. I think that that's out. The Specialist was pretty bad.

It's weird. The Stallone-Sharon Stone sex scene, they made a big deal of it in the hype of the movie. So it started to feel a little like Tyson Holyfield. Like, my god these two greats are gonna go at it but was anybody like what i really want to see is stallone in a sex scene well but that's that was that era though like joe house and i saw sliver in the theater we were like sharon stone she's like a landlord in a crazy sex apartment thing let's go what time is that playing well i mean i get the appeal for for stone after basic instinct and wanting to see her and she always took on these it was the way they apartment thing? Let's go. What type is that playing? I mean, I get the appeal for Stone after Basic Instinct and wanting to see her

and she always took on these sexy parts. It was the way they sold sex. So it was like these two and their sex scene was like comically awful. Isn't it like in a shower? Yeah, and it's like

just a lot of shots. They're naked, but everything's covered. It's really weird. And she doesn't want to be there. That's a movie that I just thought,

I thought one of assassins or the special should have been awesome. Yeah. Two really good ideas for movies. Like assassins, that movie should just work. It's like, hey, we got some assassins. Got to catch them. Cool. All right.

What time? I'm there. And Antonio Banderas at the height of his, like he's in America now. He's a big star after Desperado and everything. Doesn't work. Specialist doesn't work. Judge D big star after Desperado and everything. Doesn't work. Specialist doesn't work. Judge Dredd doesn't work.

And Assassins doesn't work. All three of those are kind of duds. I mean. Well, think about the names too. He plays Robert Rath in that one Stallone. Yeah. Like that would have been a good John Mozzarella. Maybe gone something like that.

But yeah, I actually think. What about like Stevie Cacciatore? You know? Well, Julianne Moore's in that yeah, I actually think... What about like Stevie Cacciatore? You know? Well, Julianne Moore's in that too. I actually think if somebody else other than Stallone was in that movie, it would have been a better movie. In Assassins.

Yeah. It should have been somebody on the rise. I think Dan Gilroy wrote it, Tony Gilroy's brother. Like, it's not a bad script. He plays Captain Ray Quick in The Specialist. Ray Quick is a good name. He's not a Ray Quick.

He's not a Ray Quick. He's not a Ray Quick. Yeah, so you're looking at Cliffhanger, Comeback. Demolition Man, eh. Kind of more like now, but it didn't do great. Fine reception. Specialist, eh. Judge, eh. Assassins, eh.

And Daylight, we're starting to get a little desperate now. I also saw Daylight with Gus because he was working for ESPN at that point. Drove up to Hartford. We saw this in the theater. I was totally satisfied. I have it as a hard yellow. So my uncle at the time was working for Seagram's, the liquor company.

And it was right when Seagram's had acquired Universal. And they became Universal Vivendi. And it's because he was working there, I was able to see a lot of movies before they came out. And I would get VHS cassettes of movies before they came out. He would send them to me because I was such a movie freak at that time. They have Letterboxd back then or no? No Letterboxd.

I wasn't logging any of them. But I'll never forget watching Daylight three months before it was released. And I was like, this is fucking amazing. This is one of the best movies I've ever seen. And you know that feeling when you see something before other people too? And you're like, I know. I know what's coming. And then it came out

and people were like, yeah, it's like speed in a tunnel. You know, it's not that good. The problem was the other people like we discussed earlier. You had,

him and Brenneman were really good, but everybody else, you just want all them to die by the end of the movie. You don't want to spend time with them. You can't give up Brenneman though. That's really your girl.

That's my lady. She's a, when I moved out to LA, she was a school mom and, you know, I was always like, oh,

it'd be so funny if one of my kids went to her school and I could just try to make small talk with her and then drop the, why are you so interested in what I do, lady? You could show her your book about medals.

Yeah, never happened. So Daylight, is a yellow, but I find it hard to believe it's going in it did okay business but i out of respect i put in the yellow it's kind of the beginning of the end copland is an attempt to salvage the direction his career is going by making a more prestigious film with a hot young indie filmmaker and james mangold with this legendary cast of actors k Keitel, Robert De Niro. Yeah. I think it's really good.

Yeah. I mean, we did it in the rewatchables and I wasn't ashamed. I just don't know if he's, it's an awesome Stallone movie, but if you're putting together the Hall of Fame and you want to show that he can be in a dramatic movie with good actors like that,

I think it probably has to go in. I had it as like a absolutely scorching hot yellow and I wasn't positive if it was in the next group. It's more like chartreuse. Yeah. It was like a pulsating yellow. Almost like you're blinded by how yellow it is.

But if you want to put it in, I'm happy to do so. Because I do think like it was, we said this when we did the pod, seeing him do a scene with De Niro was fucking cool. It was like two of the biggest actors of the last 50 years. I think he holds his own.

The character is so low key that he doesn't have to do the big speechifying stuff or the explosive stuff that a lot of the other guys get to do in that movie. So it's hard to grade that performance. But I think he does what is asked of him.

He's playing a palooka, right? He's playing just another schmo. He's got a disability because of asked of him he's playing a palooka right he's playing just another schmo he's got a disability because of this accident that he had as a kid he's in love with Annabelle Shore like all of us well I mean very relatable yeah um I like it I it's it's veering on green for me it's also in a hot like a hot time for me as a moviegoer this movie was like a big event for me when it came out. Yeah, I had it as the favorite for my ninth spot. Okay.

Let's go through a dark time. So he takes three full years off from movies, from 97 to 2000. So my theory on that is what I said in Copland. I think gaining the weight fucked up his face. And when he comes back out of that three-year thing, his face looks different it just does his career looks different too

because he doesn't really make any good movies nah you mentioned Get Carter at the top you mentioned Driven at the top Detox is a very

little seen movie Avenging Angelo and Shade all five of those movies come out in a three year window well you forgot about I See You is I See

oh I don't even have I See You on here but you're right I See You is another, I don't even have I See You on here. But you're right. I See You is another movie. I don't even think that was released. You can actually watch I See You on Tubi. I saw it last night. Sly Stallone, Charles S. Dutton, Polly Walker, Chris Christopherson.

I'm amazed 2022 Bruce Willis wasn't time machine to be in it. So sad. He's like the seventh person. He's made a lot of bad movies, all of which I think are definitively not in the Hall of Fame during this period. It's, I got to say, it was kind of inexplicable as it was happening.

Because from basically Copland's 97 and then the Rocky Balboa movie is 06. So you have nine years that are just like a complete throwaway. Now, I don't know. Did he make too much money? Maybe he met his wife. Maybe he wanted to take a step back. I had a... Is he raising his kids

thought during this period? You know, we're like... We know he's an egomaniac. I don't think Stallone's like, I'm going to take some time and read to my kids. He was working, but just not really. He takes a three-year gap in the 90s, at the end of just not really. Like he takes a three-year gap in the 90s, at the end of the 90s, and he takes a three-year gap

between 03 and 06. So in 03, he does make Spy Kids 3D and he plays the villain in that movie, which gets him back in the mainstream a little bit because those movies

were very successful. And then nothing until the Rocky Balboa movie, which I think is fine, but not great. And I think you like even less than I do I didn't even have it as a yellow

and same with Rambo I just it's okay it's it's like it's unnecessary it's not good the big thing with the Rocky movie

Rocky Balboa movie was he had the grown up version of the bit person in Rocky 1 the girl that was hanging out with all the guys at the beginning and he walks her home and then she tells him to fuck off.

Now she's a grown-up and that's who he falls in love with. And it's like, why didn't anyone stop this? Yeah, it was just, she wasn't a good actress and I just felt like that killed the movie. The Expendables is a tough one

because it raises a question about what the purpose of the Hall of Fame is. Because this is really the movie that got him back to a powerful position in Hollywood. And yet, I don't know anybody that loves it. There have been three of them. I know. There probably will be a fourth. I get it.

It's hard because there are movies that come later that I like more. They're not as successful. I had it as a yellow. Okay, let's hold it in Expendables for a yellow. This is also a time when he's starting to do a lot more voice work too. So like he does a voice in Zookeeper. He did a voice in Ants in the 90s to kind of stay in the frame there a little bit.

Those movies aren't going to make it. Expendables 2 isn't going to make it. So bullet to the head, do you remember when we saw this together? Yeah, unfortunately. He played James Bonomo. Jimmy Bobo was his nickname in this film.

I kind of liked it. It's fine. It's Walter Hill. It's all right. Doesn't this also have another weird twist with his daughter? Isn't his daughter

like Sarah Shahi? Remember Sarah Shahi? Oh, one of my faves. Yeah, I think she was his daughter in this movie. I thought this was not bad. I got to be honest. I don't really remember it.

I don't remember a lot from 2012. I had five jobs. But yeah, Christian Slater's in it. Momoa's in it, my guy. I think Momoa was the villain. Oh my God, Adebisi's in this. Yeah. This is like a pretty gritty Walter Hill action movie.

And when we saw it remember I remember it was like the Grantland crew. It was like LaSanti, Rafe, Chris. We all went. We were like New Stallone this looks pretty funny and it's a Walter Hill movie.

It could be good. And we all walked out being like eh. Yeah. Wasn't very good. Watched it like five years ago. Pretty solid. Definitely not a Hall of Famer

but I do need to revisit it. In Escape Plan which comes out a year later which I guess was kind of a hit, he has two parts. He plays Ray Breslin and Anthony Portos. He didn't play Vinnie Mozzarella? He didn't play Johnny Parmesan. Do you play a Parmesan or a Penne?

No. He played Penny Parmesan? Yeah. He yeah Parmesan or a Penne he played Penny Parmesan he played Nikki Penne a vodka grudge match no sorry

Expendables 3 nope I've never seen Reach Me he plays Gerald Cavallo don't even know what that is

so many names ending in owls Berenger's in that one you know Berenger dead in that one. Um, you know, Berenger dead ringer for my dad. We've talked about this.

Really? Yeah. To this day, it looks just like Berenger. Uh, okay. Creed. Creed's.

I mean, absolutely. A hundred percent. Is it bizarre though, to do a hall of fame and have five Rocky movies in the hall of fame? But Creed, it's different. Cause that's,

it just has to be in. And I don't think it's bizarre. It's like the point of the hall of fame is what are your 10 best movies and those are 5 of his 10 best movies I would bump Rocky 2 for Creed

if we had to do it if you weren't comfortable with having half of them be Rocky I'm completely comfortable with it I think

I think Creed has to be in it everything that comes after this Guardians of the Galaxy 2 is a small part Escape Plan 2 is a VOD movie.

Creed 2 is lesser than Creed for sure. Backtrace. Escape Plan 3. Nah. Rambo Last Blood. Creed 2.

Creed 2. The Suicide Squad and Samaritan. None of those movies are in that. So we have Rocky. We have the first four Rockies. First Blood and Rambo 2. Cliffhanger. Copland and Rocky. We have the first four Rockies. First Blood and Rambo, too.

Cliffhanger, Copland, and Creed. That's nine. I've got eight here. Oh, that's if we include Copland. Okay, so Copland, yes. I'm including Copland, which leaves the 10th spot for Victory, Over the Top, Tango, and Cash.

Demolition Man. Cobra. Cobra? Cobra. Fist? Fist can't make it. I think to have it be a true Hall of Fame, you have to put at least one of Cobra over the top or Tango and Cash in it.

Because you have to have something that captures that late 80s Stallone just flying too close to the sun and kind of losing perspective on what makes a good movie or not. So you think Cobra over Over the Top? No. I would... I feel like I'm going to have a stroke. This is really tough, guys. This is what we do every time we do an episode.

I'd probably do over the top. I'm really torn here. I see your case on victory. For me, it would be victory, but I don't think that's the right decision. If we're up to me, I would... I'm really torn because I feel like it is definitely between Cobra and over the top

in terms of representing what Sly is. Yeah. Do we have what we need on this list? in terms of representing what Sly is. Yeah. Is he... Do we have what we need on this list because we have five Rocky movies that we don't need over the top? We don't need like a

triumphant underdog sports story, but we don't have enough of this guy thought he was the coolest motherfucker in the world. Yeah, you're right. Cobra's got it. I mean, we've done Cobra on rewatchables and not over the top. You're right. Cobra's got it. I mean, we've done Cobra on Rewatchables and not over the top.

You're right. Cobra's got to be on there. It's so absolutely insane. Okay, so let me just read this to you. Tell me how you feel about it as an expert in the field. 1976, Rocky. 1979, Rocky II.

1982, Rocky III. 1982, First Blood. 1985, Rambo First Blood Part II. 1985, Rocky IV. 1986, Cobra. First Blood. Part 2. 1985 Rocky IV. 1986 Cobra. 1993 Cliffhanger. 1997 Copland. And 2015 Creed.

I think that's pretty good. Yeah, that sounds right. I still don't love having Rocky II. I almost feel like we could do 10 movies plus the last 25 minutes of Rocky II. You don't make exceptions for Hall of Fames, right? Well, the 10 is the 10. Yeah, that's it. When you say who won the 2. You don't make exceptions for Hall of Fames, right? Well, the 10 is the 10. Yeah, that's it. When you say who won the movie, we don't say,

well, who also won the movie? Yeah, I get it. I get it. I just wish the perfect Hall of Fame would be you would put in over the top instead of Rocky 2, but then you would also have the last 25 minutes of Rocky 2, but then you would also have the last 25 minutes

of Rocky 2. It's like a bonus, a bonus section. But I know we can't do that. I'm not going to make new rules for you. You want to swap Rocky 2 with Rhinestone?

No. I mean, look, I don't... Rocky 2 has to be in there. This is on your shoulders. Rocky 2, the last 25 minutes is one of the highlights of his career. It has to be in there. Okay. I feel good about this. Yeah. I think that's shoulders. Rocky II, the last 25 minutes, is one of the highlights of his career. It has to be on.

Okay. I feel good about this. Yeah. I think that's solid. And look, he was Rocky Balboa, was the most important sports movie character ever, and the character's been on for 45 years. Like, at some point,

that should be half the Hall of Fame. 13 of the 50-plus movies he made, he played either John Rambo or Rocky Balboa. So if seven of the movies on our list feature John Rambo or Rocky Balboa, so be it.

It's appropriate, right? I agree. Bill, any closing Stallone thoughts? You still a fan? You still feel committed to him? Yeah. He's in my own personal Hall of Fame. I wish he had had

some guidance there from maybe 83 on cause I think there's a couple things like the Beverly Hills cop thing would have been incredible for him

I definitely would have done a Tango Cash sequel is that movie as good if it's not Eddie though cause isn't that movie good because just cause of Eddie it worked out great for everybody

like I think for America and for Eddie and the way but for Sly I think that was a big miss yeah I think for America and for Eddie and the way but for Sly I think that was a big miss yeah I think putting him

in Beverly Hills and the movie was supposed to be a little darker I think that would have been a cool movie instead like his basically his LA crime movie was

was Cobra which is an objectively insane movie that is just completely off the rails there was never going to be a Cobra 2

at any point. Is Tango and Cash better than Rocky 2? No. Alright. And we did the right thing. I feel good about this. Do you think all of these movies

will have been done on the rewatchables by the time the show is over? Will First Blood Part 2 make it to the rewatchables? I don't think so. I don't think so. And we've done Victory.

We've done Tango and Cash. And we've done Copland. And we've... And I guess Cobra made it. You haven't think so. I don't think so. And we've done Victory. We've done Tango and Cash. And we've done Copland. And I guess Cobra made it. So we've done three. You haven't done Rocky. No, I don't know why. Because I don't want to shit on the first Rocky. But it's...

Have you only done three and four? Yeah. And Creed. Yeah. Okay, interesting. So you're just never going to do Rocky? I mean, we're trying to get to 500 movies we'll do rocky at some point do you think you're more identified with rocky or hoosiers or shawshank as a as a movie fan in the world probably shawshank

what's a big part of my red sox book the thing with rocky rocky has a couple just absolutely banger scenes. That's why, you know, even though it's slow and it's got its faults, like. You don't have to convince me, man. I love it. Even when he goes to the arena the day before the fight and they got the trunks wrong and the promoter's like, ah, it doesn't matter anyway. And he realizes he's not going to win and he comes back and he wakes up and he's like, I can't beat him.

She's like, you work so hard. He said, but if I could just go the distance. If I could just. Nobody's ever gone the distance. If I could just do it. It's like such an unbelievable setup. Where it's like you have the underdog realize I'm not going to win. But I still have a goal.

And then you think like you know the longest yard starts sports movies right but Rocky it's such a phenomenon that it just gets ripped off in every sport for the next 10 years

every single sport has a Rocky movie because that was that's how genius it was sounds like you're in training for the Rocky rewatch after that little speech it's just sitting there

it's down the road. Okay. All right. Bill Simmons, thanks for being on the show. Great to have you in my life without us doing Rewatchables. Yeah. We're on like a different pod. Yeah.

That's great. Bill, secretly one of the best guests on the Ringer Podcast Network. Oh, thanks. Little known fact. Thanks so much to Bobby Wagner, too, our producer on this week's episode. Stay tuned. Later this week, we messed with the draft. We have a new kind of movie draft. It's an upside down movie draft. I'm not going to explain what that is, but you'll have to tune in to check it out. See you then.