The Big Picture - The ‘Tenet’ Commentary : yratnemmoC ‘teneT’ ehT

Episode Date: May 6, 2021

This is a special episode of 'The Big Picture': a watch-along commentary track for Christopher Nolan’s 11th feature film. In March, we teamed up with Chris Ryan for our first commentary, a four-hour journey through 'Zack Snyder’s Justice League,' a.k.a the Snyder Cut. We barely survived. This time, we’re diving into a more complex movie, but fortunately one we have seen before. This is our collective third viewing of Nolan’s controversial, confusing, and, we will argue, wrongly overlooked 'Tenet.' We will be together for all 150 minutes of this movie, and we want you to watch along with us. Let’s go! Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guest: Chris Ryan Producer: Bobby Wagner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Watch is the latest and the greatest in pop culture from best friends Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald. Join them as they discuss TV, movies, music, and much more. Check out The Watch on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Sean Fennessey. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about Tenet. Christopher Nolan's 11th feature film debuted on HBO Max this week, and millions who were unable to see the movie during a worldwide pandemic

now have a chance to see it on a streaming service. So why don't we do that together? Joining us today is the pharaoh of the Freeport, the trailblazer of Talon, the Andre Sator of The Big Picture. It's Chris Ryan. What up, CR? What up? I'm so excited for this. So this is a very Sator of The Big Picture. It's Chris Ryan. What up, CR? What up? I'm so excited for this. So this is a very special episode of The Big Picture.

Here's what we're doing. It's a watch-along commentary track. In March, we teamed up for our very first commentary of 4-Hour Journey through Zack Snyder's Justice League, aka The Snyder Cut. We barely survived. This time, we're diving into a more complex movie, but fortunately, one that we have seen before.

This is, I think, our third collective viewing of Nolan's controversial, confusing, and we will argue, wrongly overlooked, Tenet. We will be together

for all 150 minutes of this movie, so we want you to watch along with us during that time. This is light work compared to Snyder. This is a snack.

If everyone is ready, get your HBO Max fired up, sync up your headphones, and let's go. Three, two, one, press play. We're already seeing magic, the red tinted Warner Brothers logo. Amanda, I think back to when we saw this movie at a drive-in

and I was not sure if the screen was broken when this logo first came up. Well, you were also Instagramming simultaneously, but that's fine. I could see it from the car next to you, but it was nice. We were so excited to be back. It was nice.

You guys, does anybody in fucking movies make better opening sequences than Christopher Nolan? Right? Well, what are the highlights? We're seeing the Kiev Opera House right now. What are some old school ones you love, Chris? Okay. So obviously the first heist from Dark Knight, right?

You've got the opening scene from The Prestige where Michael Caine's like, I won't bury another Batman. But he just really knows how to start the show. And this is such a great meta moment of like the orchestra warming up, the crowd is assembling, and it's almost kind of deeply, I don't know, it's poetic that nobody,

we didn't get to see this movie collectively. Uh-oh. You're right that nobody orchestrates an opener like Nolan. This is one of his best though. I think that this sequence is, this is when this started, I knew we were in for something exciting. The disorientation, I think,

is a big part of the point of this movie. And this is an incredibly disorienting first 10 minutes. I will also say that historically, action sequences in opera houses, just you're in for a great ride. I'm also thinking, which Bond movie is it? It's the bad Bond movie, right? Is that Quantum of Solace?

Quantum of Solace. Yeah, it's the only good part of that not so good movie. Here we're getting our first look at John David Washington, the star, the protagonist, literally, of Tenet. Big, big jump for JDW here.

This is his announcement as a major movie star. What was the role that kind of Nolan, that turned Nolan on? Was it Black Klansman? It must have been. Nolan was like, I got to get this guy. What was the role that kind of Nolan that turned Nolan on was a Black Klansman? It must have been. Nolan was like,

I got to get this guy. Well, I think I know that Nolan was also a huge ballers guy. And obviously, J.D.W. is the star of ballers. And he couldn't get Corddry. Couldn't get Corddry.

Yep. Yep. Couldn't get the rock. Couldn't get, I don't know, Jay Glazer. Was Jay Glazer available to be the star of Tenet?

You guys like opera? You been to the opera ever, either of you? I have. Okay. Certainly, I like. Amanda, you and I have listened to opera together.

Have we? Not at the opera. I don't remember that. I've had a lot of weird experiences with you, but that's not one that I remember. Yeah, don't you remember I had the red string on my bag and I was inverting a bullet at the

opera house? Do you remember that? Sure. So here's a question I wanted to start this movie with, since this is our third trip around the sun here. Can you guys put me back in the place where when you first saw it, when you realized that this movie wasn't going to make any sense. Ooh, for me, it was very early on. I think the first inversion, the first inverted bullet that we saw was when I knew that I was going to be confused. Even though I think we had seen the trailer as we knew that reverse time was a concept. It's so disorienting to see. What about for you, Amanda?

Yeah, I mean, I think we're getting to the moment in the movie where i was like wait what's happening because he's about to right okay so there's some intrigue going on here this is what you want you want code words and and and confusing phrases this is typical spy movie stuff. It's like, we don't know who these people are. We don't know what they want. We know that someone's being saved. Is it the right person being saved?

But we're getting very close to visual action that is confusing. Chris, what about for you? Yeah, I mean, pretty early on, you realize that even though these guys are being identified as the Americans, and it's obviously, I guess this is the Kiev Opera House or wherever it's being set, and there's ex-Soviet bloc slash Eastern European intrigue going on.

I just think that immediately you start to feel like the rules dissolve. So even though it feels very realistic and visceral and palpable and everything, just everybody being asleep and the possibility of a dreamlike atmosphere is really, I think you get that in the opening moments. I think this was also when, you know, they're trying to communicate the fact that not everybody in this room and not

even the protagonist knows what's going on, but I have the feeling of where am I supposed to look and what's going on right now i think it's also obviously people being in operating in masks and and headgear throughout this movie is an incredibly disorienting factor you don't know who you're supposed to be looking at you don't really know who's behind those masks and then later when we learn about inversion it's confusing as to who is the inverted version of the character, who is the non-inverted version. I'm sure we'll talk about that a lot once we start getting into these turn styles. But here,

you have no idea who anybody is. And even John David Washington, who we know and like from Black Klansman and Ballers, is not exactly Tom Cruise. So even him, we don't know who we're totally supposed to be following yet. I just want to shout out the athleticism of Washington, which I think has gone underrated as people sort of evaluated whether or not his performance was wooden or whether it was

classically movie star or whatever. I just think like that dude knows how to run. Like there's like a lot of actors who would just be like, yeah, put somebody else in the suit and have them take off. But there is like a, you know, ex-football player athleticism to his movements that's very, very convincing. Yeah, I agree. There's a scene not to jump too far ahead, even though in many ways that is the spirit of this movie.

Or is it jumping behind? I don't know. I read some things about entropy. We'll see whether I remember them. But there's a scene with John David Washington fighting people in a kitchen that just rules and speaks to what you're talking about, Chris, that there are different ways to be a movie star and also to be like a Nolan protagonist. I think it is a slightly different version of the type of person we're used to seeing in the center of a Nolan film. I mean, also, he's just like not Batman, but I'm a huge fan of this performance.

Okay. No, I that's there. Right. There it is. This is the moment where the movie kind of flips and we don't totally know where we're going or what's happening. Also,

do you think this is a subtle commentary on Nolan's feelings about opera? The fact that everybody is asleep in the opera house. I thought you were going to ask if it was a subtle, a subtle take on Nolan's feelings about the Kabbalah. Oh, dear. You hate to see that when you've got such an architectural marvel like this opera house. So who is It's Not the Guy?

We're already at a point of confusion. Right. This is my approach during the first watch. And honestly, on this third watch, it's just real top line. I felt like it's like, I don't know. All you're supposed to know is that he didn't get the right person and things went wrong. And I feel like, I mean, I guess we'll try to solve some of the issues, but maybe some people's, it'll be interesting on this third

rewatch to see how many of the actual questions can be answered satisfyingly versus just watching it and letting it wash over you as time does. I think the thing that people had a hard time with is that he shot this like Dunkirk, but it feels more like the logic of it is more like the matrix you know he shot this in a really realistic verite like it just feels like eastern europe here it feels like like ukraine that looks like it but at the same time there's a clock in the middle of the train tracks or like you know there's obvious elements that suggest a kind of dreamlike fantasy sequence happening. This is right out of Inception. I was just thinking about this Two Distant Strangers, the short film that just won the

Best Short Film Academy Award. Shout out to Van Lathan. This is one of the stars, Andrew Howard. He plays the cop in that film, and he is playing this villainous figure at the beginning, Andrew Howard. He plays the cop in that film and he is playing this villainous figure at the beginning of Tenet. Well-known character actor, Andrew Howard. Has a real soccer hooligan energy.

He sure does. So, C.R., you're on your fourth pod of the day and you have a similar energy here, kind of reaching for the cyanide I got the capsule in my in my in between my teeth what fuck yeah come on the tenant title card comes up and I knew when I first saw it I know right now it's just like the blood pressure starts going up it's just you're just getting sucked into a world that's already in progress, which is my favorite thing to experience. Here, of course, is Martin Donovan,

one of the GOAT That Guys, certainly on the That Guy Mount Rushmore Hall of Fame. Absolutely. And frequent leading man of Hal Hartley movies. That's right. Okay, so he's on a boat right now. He's on a boat. And this is going to be an important location point for later in the movie, according to

some blog posts that I read after the fact. How many blog posts will you be quoting in this commentary track? I read a lot of blog posts, including at one point the Wikipedia page on the physical concept of time. So I'm really ready for this podcast and to explain everything that's happening. Can you start to describe that, the physical concept of time for us? Sure. Well, it's a dimension. I mean, time isn't real, right? It's a description of how particles are likely to move. I'm serious. That's part of the

way that Christopher Nolan wrote this movie. Welcome to Dr. Dobbins' seminar. Keep going. I don't know. He's about to talk about entropy. So we got to know what that is. And I'll be honest, physics was not my strong suit in school. It was a little too conceptual for me. So I was just trying to get the basics so that I could understand inversion and the turnstile instead of being like, I don't know what's happening, even though I'm definitely just going to be like, I don't know what's happening. I was just having this conversation last night about whether or not if they knew in the 90s when I was in grade school, what they know now about computing, would they have made us take algebra?

You know, like I hate that. And I hated algebra, but I think I probably could have used some advanced mathematics to understand the storytelling of this movie. Like there's certain things where it's like these kinds of advanced thinking would have been helpful for Christopher Nolan films.

You raise an interesting question though, which is do you need to understand it to enjoy it? That's been the primary tension, I think, of people responding to the movie because it's so unwilling to hold your hand. And the fact that Amanda felt the need, I think reasonably, to try to understand the spatial relationship between time and force to figure out this movie is certainly a demerit. Time is force. There you go. Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Einstein.

I don't know if that's true. Based Amanda is what I want from this pod. What else was I supposed to do? I also read some stuff about Goya, okay? I was doing my best. Was I supposed to read blog posts that were like, so when John David Washington is in this place, then he's actually also in this place.

I know. I watched the trailer. So I decided to, then he's actually also in this place. I know. I watched the trailer. So I decided to, you know, do a little continuing education. Did you also... So you did consume ayahuasca before we started recording. No, I didn't. No, she's just... Sleepy Joe is like, community college is free, brother.

And Amanda was like, sign me up. Sleepy Joe. I feel like I do want there to be a moment in my life where I don't want to be tortured by an Eastern European terrorist. But I do want to wake up on a boat one day and have someone say... You're dead. You're dead. And now you're on a mission. And then you could start a new pod.

That's right. Without you guys. Solo pod. Tenet pod. Solo. We watch Tenet every day. Without you guys. Solo pod. Tenet pod. Solo. We watch Tenet every day. But Bobby's coming with me. The whole waking up dead thing

really gave me Six Underground vibes and I don't know if I'm the only person but if there was another person who thought about that I know it was Chris Ryan. I know he's on this podcast

right now. Six Underground's gonna be a cult classic. I literally don't remember what happens in Six Underground. Are they all dead? Don't they rob the Uffizi? Yeah, but I think they're dead on paper,

whereas JDW here is like... Oh, they are dead. Oh, okay, right. Because it's like they all have numbers, and they're dead, and then they fight crime. Chris slacked me at midnight of the drop of that movie on Netflix and was like, you started it up yet? then they fight crime Chris slacked me at midnight of the drop of that movie on Netflix and was like you

started it up yet so do you think that Christopher Nolan who is probably knee deep in the writing the script for tenant when six underground was released do you think he fired it up on Netflix was like

fuck Bayham he got me again script by then I don't some might argue he still hasn't finished the script okay yeah so here we get uh clemens posey right is that right that's her name yeah and i think she's serving the purpose of the michael cain ellen page character inception where she's obviously going to be explaining some pretty high concept ideas to jd, but also to the audience. And I knew when this scene was over,

while we were in for some real shit, and B, I still don't understand this. So I think one of the things I wanted to get at here, especially, you know, I think Amanda and I are much more into Nolan movies than Sean is typically. But Sean, like, you seem to buck against the ones that are like, no, this really does make sense if you think about it versus Tenet, which is kind of like breaking the sound barrier in terms of logic, right?

Yeah, that's kind of what I was getting at when I was saying, does it matter if you really understand the concepts that he's pushing? Because I think there were characters in Inception who went out of their way to expository break down what things meant and where they were going. And that exists here, too. We're seeing it in this sequence, right? This is the exposition of how the concept works. But it feels very arched to me in a way that his other movies don't. This feels very self-referential, self-aware. She literally says in the scene after explaining all of it. I mean, we're about to get to the actual

moment where she's like don't think it just feel it yeah that's the joe popcorn he's just like just have a milk dud and chill out right yeah it's the joe fantasy i feel like i feel seen so i just i want everyone she just said entropy just so you know so it's what is entropy amanda yeah entropy is oh god i did read this it's it's the force that moves things forward it is and that's like our under that's what time is basically is our understanding that things move forward and not backwards and yet you know sierra you're a nostalgia merchant you know you've made your career selling us on the rose-colored memories of the past. I love the 90s. That's new. So how does it feel to see someone kind of trying to disrupt your career? Honestly,

I mean, I feel like Tenet is a rejection of all the work you've been doing. Yeah. But think about how... Don't you think that Tenet itself, though, the movie owes to whether it's the classics of Bond, whether it's like, I mean, he referenced a lot in interviews, the influence of Sergio Leone's Once Upon a Time in the West. I mean, there is obvious. I think this is kind of a classic movie in a lot of ways. For all its techno savvy, it still feels like a real practical Hollywood blockbuster to me. I agree. I think a lot of that is based around the very clear segmentation. The fact that it's like the pacing of the movie is huge set piece,

people explaining stuff, huge set piece, people explaining stuff. You know, that is, it's a very, it's very conventional in that way. And I think that the set pieces really work in this movie i mean we obviously just saw the opera house but that's

part of the reason why i had such a positive reaction to it the first time around i felt like the scale was totally justified and part of it might have just been the fact that we didn't have any other movies like this last year that were trying to do this kind of do things at this scale yeah i also there's an underrated third part of it, which is the people who are explaining things are fun to be around. And we talked a little bit about this, Sean, I can't remember on which big picture episode, but like this is a hang movie. And the fact that in addition to all of these people just saying nonsense about entropy, which I just, for the record, I'm not really sure whether I explained it correctly, but I tried. I just did my best scientists, but it doesn't matter what

they're saying because you like being around them. And, or at least I do. And I really liked the Sean David Washington performance. I like Clemens Poiseuille. It's we've already done a list of all the great character actors. There are a lot more to come. And so sometimes in movies like this, those interstitial moments, like I think get overlooked and aren't done with like good craft or vibe. And this is like a weirdly, I think funny Christopher Nolan movie, but I like the attention to the interstitial details to me is what makes it so enjoyable. And then also the set pieces rule, but like, that's why you're not mad when you have to go

at the time in between the set pieces or at least why i'm not mad other people seem to be pretty mad there's another huge element to this that i think makes it feel lighter than other christopher nolan movies and that's like the lack of emotional baggage for the protagonist yes there's no like i have to get marion cotillard out of limbo there's no I'm avenging Maggie Gyllenhaal's death there's no dead wife problem it doesn't have

the Christopher Nolan dead wife problem well they have there's a wife and she has some problems but she's a hero ultimately exactly

I know we're kind of spoiling everything sorry guys but that's one of the best parts of the movie in my opinion I mean I think Bobby Pats is about to

jump on screen here that's true we're best parts of the movie, in my opinion. I mean, I think you could make the case. Bobby Pats is about to jump on screen here. That's true. We're in Mumbai now, where the protagonist has his mission. Look at those chairs. They're so good. Another great production design movie. Yes, exactly. We were talking about this, Amanda, with the Oscars,

where if they had actually campaigned this movie, it could have won in so many categories because all of the little details are so magnificent. Look at the costumes.'s amazing yeah this is what uh this is me and cr in a couple of weeks once i'm fully vaxxed who's who um i'm neil that's actually really tough i i actually don't know who's who i don't i i can't claim to have any resemblance to either of these incredibly beautiful men so i'm not going to try my energy is much more jdw and chris is definitely more neil do you know uh

robert pattinson apparently based this performance somewhat off of christopher hitchens interesting or that that was like a that was a model for for nolan and pattinson and creating the character apparently how much of hitchens' global politics were a part of that performance? I was going to say, I would just love to hear Robert Pattinson speak on his thoughts about Christopher Hitchens. Neil for the Iraq War? Yeah, Neil was like, yellow cake.

We got to track it down. We woke Bobby up. Bobby's like, you guys talking about Gulf War? Alright, this is sick. Another amazing set piece coming up here. This guy just... The reverse Bungie. Greatest hits album of things that Christopher Nolan likes.

Skylines. Pattinson looks like he got out of the lighthouse, fell asleep on the shore, and then just put a suit on. He looks a little sunburned and his hair is very light. The lighthouse is actually a prequel to this film. Little known fact.

He actually inverted to go back to the lighthouse. That's right. You guys seen The Lighthouse? Phenomenal film. I have. Love that movie. When are we going to reverse bungee jump for a pod? Have you regular bungee jumped ever? No, no. Would you? Chris, have you? No, I don't think so.

I absolutely would never do it. I feel like it's just pretty violent on your back. I just, that's not how I get my kicks. And that's fine because other people do. I would be probably more comfortable reverse bungee jumping, but it seems like in order to reverse bungee jump, you got to learn the core skills from regular bungee jumping first. I will say I do like cliff diving though. If we're talking about sports, I haven't done it since I was like 14,

but see our next time you go cliff diving. I need you to get on locker room, the new service that Spotify acquired, and do a live audio show about your diving. The thing with cliff diving is there's not a ton of return on investment. You got to walk all the way out there, and then you jump once,

and you're like, I lived. And that's it. That's pretty much the day. You know what I mean? Yeah. You can't buy like a fast pass back to the top of the cliff. That's true. Here we see the arms trader and his wife, Priya.

Priya, of course, is a more significant figure than this man who is a bit of a patsy in this equation. What do you think Priya is drinking there? G&T? It seems like GT's and vodka tonics are the order of the day. Except the protagonist likes Diet Coke, right? I think we talked over that last. Which

Neil knows because they're boys in the future. Damn. If I came up to Sean I would just be like, no mayo for my guy right here. Thank you, Chris. How did you know that? Thank you for knowing me, I would just be like, no mayo for my guy right here. Thank you, Chris. How did you know that? Thank you for knowing me so deeply. I'd say no white condiments,

no white drugs. Hell yeah. Amanda, you know about that? No white condiments, no white drugs? Do you know how many times I've fucking cooked for you and not put wet condiments on stuff?

Are you kidding me? And the sauce is on the side. Do you know, I am more familiar with your weird food things than anyone else except your wonderful wife who has to put up with them on a daily basis yes sean i know you don't like white condiments you also don't like dill you don't like broccoli what other weird shit do you not like but it's pretty awkward amanda when you make a cocaine casserole and sean's just like, I know you didn't make this with mayonnaise. It's my specialty. Yeah.

Well, it's important to have taste. I guess so. The protagonist, he's got taste. Priya, she's got taste. Me, I've got taste. Where are you guys

at on wicker furniture? I'm so pro. Yeah? And there's so many great examples here. Yeah. I've been, I'm in the market if anybody's got anything. You got to get those Pier 1 closeout sales.

Those guys are like vulnerable. Is Pier 1 closing? I mean, I feel like they're always closing now. Okay. I just, I didn't know whether it was like a national thing. Amanda will do spawn watch along pods for Wicker Furniture. So just if you're out there, Wicker Furniture Companies. I'm really available.

All of the furniture apps, I'm in your spaces already. Would you do Army of the Dead Watch Along if I bought you a Wicker chair for it? I would want more of the cane chairs in the previous scene. Okay. When they first met.

But if you got me two of those, I would watch all of Army of the Dead once. Yes. Chris, you got me two of those, I would watch all of Army of the Dead once. Yes. Chris, you shamelessly tried to fetch many sponsors on the last Watch Along podcast. Are you planning on doing the same thing or are you just going to hand that baton off to Amanda this time?

This one's all about Dr. Time. I'm just here to set her up. We're about 20 minutes into this movie. We still haven't mentioned ludwig gorenson who might be the true mvp of the movie with his score i think he might be the goat composer right now maybe he has the belt i think he has the belt yeah he has the belt he is doing the most he does the score for the mandalorian um he did the score for for Black Panther. He's Ryan Coogler's go-to composer. And the music, you can hear it at the very beginning at the siege at the Kiev Opera House.

But he is in his bag in this movie. We're about to get the Michael Caine scene, which is just delightful. And I really think purposeless, unless you want to see Michael Caine and John David Washington banter about suits, which like I absolutely do. But when we're talking about how this is like a little bit lighter than some of the other Christopher Nolan movies, I mean, obviously Michael Caine is a Christopher Nolan figure,

but this is just him having fun. It seems like. Yeah. Caine is always used as a bridge in the Nolan movies. He's always somebody who introduces someone to someone or someone who gets a job done for someone behind the scenes. This is obviously the opportunity for him to get introduced to the Elizabeth Debicki character, which kind of sets the plot truly in motion. But also an excuse for these guys to eat a nice tomato salad in a beautiful hotel restaurant. What restaurant

is this? This is a club. It's a private club. Are you a member of the club? No, I mean, I'd love to. It doesn't really seem like they let women into it. But, you know, it doesn't have the same like architectural design or anything like that. But it has like it reminds me a little of the Wolseley in London, which is a very like you go there and you see like people from Parliament eating breakfast and stuff. Where else do you like to go in London, Chris? Oh, all over. I'm big into East London these days. Yes. It's everyone else talking about London.

Okay. This reminds me of... It does remind me a bit of... It's like I read about it in Vice. Like I actually went there. This does remind me a bit of the Lambs Club in Midtown Manhattan. Have you guys been to the Lambs Club?

No. I never did. What happens there uh it's just where i do all my arms deals you know your white drugs i know no white drugs that's where i deal white drugs um and it's just a sort of like slightly buttoned up high class you know when i was working at condé nes that's where all the powerful people at condé nes we go have breakfast and lunch and have meetings. And it was seemed very chic. Also seems a bit ridiculous in hindsight that you would spend like $82 on breakfast

on a Wednesday morning. But people did it. They did it all the time. And now that company doesn't have any more money. It's tough. It's not ideal. They needed Michael Caine. He's the plug here. Sir Michael Crosbyby so one of the things that sort of starts to come into you know become clear in this sequence in this conversation

i love the credit card bit here is um the fact that like this movie is obviously set in the world but maybe not our world so there is like this idea idea of like a Russian state that's sort of operating or a Russian, you know, gangster who's operating and has tapped into intelligence services. And there is a CIA and there seems to be a British secret service, but it's not like, you know, I don't know if like the Vietnam War

happened in this movie's world. Do you know what I mean? Like on the timeline, is that too weird to say? I mean, no, It's just like early, but I love that you're raising the question of whether the Vietnam War happened. It all goes back to Nam for Chris. It all goes back to Nam.

Does Lionel Messi exist in this world? You know what I mean? I've thought about this with all of the Nolan movies. I think you can ask that about every single movie with the exception I think of Tesla showing up in, is that in the Prestige? Well, and obviously Dunkirk is separate. asked that about every single movie with the exception i think of uh tesla showing up in is that in the prestige well and obviously dunkirk is separate right right that's that's a true kind of docu drive but the other movies the batman movies and insomnia and memento they feel kind

of like they feel extra worldly yeah you know not just otherworldly but like and because the whole concept of kind of the multiverse i think the multiverse is like actually a theme of this movie. And when we get to the end, we'll really feel that because there are going to be various versions of people running through various versions of reality. I think it's reasonable to ask, like, is this earth?

This is like, so like she's looking at real art, right? Like, yeah. I mean, counterpoint that like, this is the referencing Goya.

That's right. We're just talking. There was a Brooks brothers joke that we were talking over. That's very good joke. Uh, I think that the cars that they're driving in the sequence, the, the,

the big set piece yet to come are Audi. I mean, I don't know why it just like advertisements aren't evidence of a real world necessarily, but it does seem like that there are, that they're living on this earth or an earth. It's like very similar to the one that we're in we've also like the idea of free ports whatever well there's one other i guess

kind of signal that this is operating in our world which is that we're learning about andre seder who is elizabeth debicki's i guess quasi estranged husband and then we're hearing about this character named arepo who she has an you know association with and those are two words that you find in the satyr square yes which is square which is a i read a wikipedia page a two-dimensional word square containing five word latin palindromes among them arepo and opera we were just at the opera house earlier in this movie we'll later hear the word rotas which is of course the course, the inversion of Seder. And this is the kind of shit that obviously Christopher Nolan really gets off on, but also is kind of fun to talk about throughout this film.

Yeah. And ultimately, whether or not you try to solve it or just let it wash over you, it creates an effect. There's an accumulation of those sort of like these palindromes, these, like you say, like the word squares, whatever, these two-dimensional like powerful, like it starts to feel hypnotic. It starts to feel like that the time in this movie moves differently than the time in real life. And, you know, maybe he doesn't answer whether or not Julius Randall is good in this world.

You know what I mean mean like we don't know chris you've been in possession of the satyr square for a number of years um as in like the infinity infinity gauntlet or something yeah yeah it's a it's a magical stone something it just lets you it lets you pot all day just put it in my backpack um should we talk about elizabeth to bicky a little bit yeah let's do it so she's obviously um just a giant human she's probably the tallest actress i've ever seen in the history of movies she's like six foot three she's obviously quite striking and quite talented but But I'm kind of amazed that they've allowed her

to have this level of fame because that's not usually something that tall women get to have in Hollywood because so many key actors are so short. Let's do tall actress power rankings.

Okay. DeBecky, right? DeBecky, yeah. Gina Davis. Allison Janney. Allison Janney, that's a good one. Emma Stone.

Little Known. 6'2". Nobody knows that. That's not true. Emilia Clarke. Right? She's 6'8". All right.

I really like Debicki. I think... But Brienne of Tarth probably pretty tall, right? Oh, for sure. Gwendolyn Christie. Definitely. Do you think

that these two have chemistry what kind of chemistry any kind of chemistry just like seems like two people who get along seems like two people there's a little cat there's a little

molecular action going on yeah even if it's just friendship even if it's done if it's platonic I think they're interested in each other they can help one another. Oh boy.

Kitchen fight. Love when a large bald man sits down at my dinner table for no reason. Chris, I thought you should know that Jane Lynch is six foot tall. Six foot flat. Okay, Jane Lynch. Oh yeah. That's the cutoff. In this world, Jane Lynch is short. I don'toff. That's where in this world Jane Lynch is short.

I don't know. That's really hard for women who are 5'10 and 5'11 are pretty tall. Yeah. They're taller than me. I'll tell you.

You know who's having a sick career is Elizabeth Debicki. Look at this. She came in the game in The Great Gatsby and then she was in Macbeth,

the Australian Macbeth and then The Man from U.N.C.L.E. and then The Night Manager and, and then the night manager, and then Guardians of the Galaxy 2, and then Widows, and then Tenet. And she's going to be Princess Diana in season five of The Crown. That's right.

I've only ever dated one girl who was taller than me. Okay. What was her name? Well, you're the problem. Well, I'm not going to name her. I'm the problem? What is that? What are we all supposed to do out here?

The women who are taller. I'm just saying this is what happened. We just stepped on, I ordered my hot sauce an hour ago, which is one of my five favorite lines in this movie when John David Washington walks into the kitchen. Incredible moment. Here we go. I mean, this fight is electric.

Yeah, I was really- God, look at him that punched that guy. Really worried about his hand getting tenderized me to get excited for about people punching people but that is like ballet here we go i have that same cheese grater yeah i have that one in in mission impossible i think it was ghost protocol they introduced the renner character with the expectation that renner would replace tom Cruise's Ethan Hunt. But the person who should replace Tom Cruise's Ethan Hunt is John David

Washington. Yeah. This is the energy we want. It's like this actions as like, and fighting as like beautiful movement. I mean, I really do think that there is something comparable to ballet in it. And most people are just kind of,

I mean, he's also like just really strong and punching those guys really hard and it's cool but underrated Chris and I talk about that all the time like the choreography of action sequences is one of the hardest things to do in movies to make it seem legible but I think also people moving believably

as part of it it's also like a lot of like really well choreographed fight scenes still look like shit because they're not shot well or because they just don't look good. I'm thinking a very specific movie in my mind right now. But like, you know, you'll see something that's like, oh, this could be really sick if it wasn't lit like shit, you know? What film are you thinking of? When is this running?

Oh, yeah. May 6th. You're thinking of Without Remorse? I am. Yeah. I agree with you, Chris. Yeah.th. You're thinking of Without Remorse? I am. I agree with you, Chris. Yeah. Well, you know, I'll be honest.

I think a part of that too is how did you see Without Remorse? At home on a TV? Yeah, I know. You know what? That's how I saw Tenet. That's true.

It's still not. I'm grading on a curve for action movies. I see it. And look, there's like I am in the upper 99th percentile of Stefano Salima fans. So everybody knows I got if I'm grading on a curve for action movies. I see it. And look, there's like, I am in the upper 99th percentile of Stefano Salima fans. So everybody knows I got, if I'm saying that there,

nobody's paying me to, you know? No, it's true. There's a lot that is just hard to understand in that movie because of the darkness, because of the choreography. Why can't I get you guys to dress like these guys are dressed on the roof?

Amanda, I haven't worn buttons since last March. I know what I'm just saying. Amanda, I haven't worn buttons since last March. I know, but I'm just saying, like, you know, vaccines are here. We're starting to emerge. Like, I would like, I want this for you guys. I want this for both of you and I'll be nicer to you if you dress this way.

It's too hot here. If I lived in London, I would dress like this every day. If I was up in Dalston at the pub. Okay, yeah. Proveably false. You absolutely would not dress like this every day in London. Yeah, especially in Dalston at the pub. Okay, yeah. Provably false. You absolutely would not dress like this every day in London. Yeah, especially in Dalston. If I lived in London, I would wear a full Liverpool tracksuit every day.

Amanda, we're inside a Freeport. Yes, Freeports. All right, so I'll be honest. I did not know about Freeports until this movie because I guess I wasn't paying attention until how or paying enough attention as to how rich people hide their money and don't pay taxes. But this is the number one way that they do it. Apparently, Freeports have existed for over 100 years. They're like oldest time, but they have become the international elites favorite place to hide all of their art and then occasionally look at it. But really, because what a Freeport is,

is that it's like a designated zone, um, that is sort of like a no customs area. And so you don't have to pay taxes. And so people will keep their assets and often art in these state-of-the-art facilities his wife, who is played by Elizabeth Debicki, as a kind of blackmail that is disallowing her from spending time with her son and really living her life the way that she wants to live it. And John David Washington is doing that to try to get closer to Sator, closer to figuring out what the tenant scheme really is. And so they're breaking into a Freeport to get their hands on that piece of art. And the way that they're trying to do it is immensely complicated. Yes.

And we... Go ahead, Chris. Oh, no, no. Go ahead and finish, Sean. Sorry. Just going to say, this won't be the first time, the last time we enter a Freeport. The Freeport is a key station in this storytelling. So this section of this movie, this sequence was my favorite sequence of 2020.

Like easily. I think just think this in and of itself is an absolute masterpiece of filmmaking. It is also incredibly 2020 that much of this sequence is inaudible because of the music and the mix of the sound, which suggests no one's like you don't need to know the details. You just need to know the vibe. But if you were watching this for the first time because you rented it on a streaming service like Apple or Amazon or whatever, or you're now watching it on HBO Max, you can watch it with subtitles, which explains the details of the heist. What do you guys think? Is that almost weirdly against the filmmaker intent? It's an interesting question because I've read varying accounts from people who are experts in sound editing. And there were some people who felt like this movie 100% should have been nominated

and won a best sound award at the Oscars this year. And then there are obviously a lot of people, especially a lot of fans who are like, why does Christopher Nolan insist on not letting me understand his movies? And mixing the dialogue very down, mixing the score and the effects, the sort of foley sounds way up is, but I think it's supposed, the purpose is very clear, Chris. It's trying to be immersive and not confusing, but sort of like overwhelming, like a sensory

explosion as opposed to a logical examination. I still do want to see the words though. Like I care about what they're saying. So I agree. I mean, Amanda and I talked about this when we did a rewatch, which is that it was just frankly a lot easier to follow the second time around.

I think I was on that pod. You were. Yeah. But I think part of that also, Sean, is that like you and I saw it at a drive-in, which is like a uniquely unregulated sound and visual for that matter experience. And I do wonder again,

whether some of the sound stuff and the confusion is just that almost all of us are watching this film, like not in the environment for which it was designed. Because as we know, Christopher Nolan, like really, really designs for his theater experience i think he would be very mad if to know that everyone is just sitting around with subtitles yeah but he's not about a lot of things over zoom drawing about julius randall while his art is playing out it's not ideal you know nolan there's a lot of people when when the arc light was

announced that it was not going to reopen we're obviously raising the name of Quentin Tarantino because he's a theater owner here in Los Angeles. But I feel like Nolan is the guy who should come through on the Cinerama Dome. I mean, he's the person who cares the most about these exquisite film-going experiences, which obviously underlines why last year was such a complicated year for him and his relationship to the studio that makes his movies and the HBO Max ordeal. And here we are watching this movie ostensibly on HBO Max together. JDW with the espresso. God bless. What a cool person. I should start walking around with a little Euro espresso cup. Maybe that'll be my 2021 back in the world look. You guys can dress in these suits and I'll just bring an espresso cup everywhere. So you spend $2.50 on an espresso and we spend $3,000 on a Brooks Brothers suit. Yeah.

Got it. Yes. Seems reasonable. Are you paying for the suits? No. Brooks Brothers doesn't cut it though, Sean. Didn't you see the joke? Come on.

It's a good point. Sorry. I like the jumpers that the airport employees are wearing here. Kind of like master's caddies, you know? That's your energy. That's how you should be dressing after the pandemic. I'm like Greller, Speeds Caddy. Just trying to talk dudes down.

No. This movie sounds amazing. I think everybody complaining about it either needed to watch it in headphones like not on their home TV or with like a Dolby speaker. And obviously that's not fair to say,

but like the sound mixing in this movie is unbelievable. This is also when they drop all the gold bars out of this, you're just like, shit has hit the fan. Yeah. They literally dropped the bag.

God, this is good. Here's the thing. That's a fucking plane. That's like a real plane. Kids today. Did you guys see the Kevin Feige quote about Chloe Zhao shooting in the world? It's just fantastic stuff.

It's really... Yeah. Meanwhile, Christopher Nolan's out here blowing planes up and running them through airplane hangars. Kevin Feige's stoked to see the ocean in a movie that he produced having produced 30 movies yeah but this is also why Jack Warner is

eating like TV dinners at night because he's just like Christopher Nolan spent like half a bill on this plane going through a free port so he tells me Jack Warner I can't go to

Musso and Frank tonight Nolan spent all my liquidity do you think Jack Warner would like this movie tonight. Nolan spent all my liquidity. Do you think Jack Warner would like this movie? I'm just like, is he a lean cuisine guy? That's what my focus is now. How old did Jack Warner be?

Like 110 now, right? Jack Warner was born in 1892. Okay, so 139. Yeah. I don't think you'd like this film, no. Okay.

That's awesome. That's crazy. It's definitely crazy that he did this. It's definitely crazy that people saw this and were like, that's fine. That's amazing. Yeah. It's just crazy that people saw this and were like, that's fine. That's amazing. It's just crashed.

Yeah. It doesn't beat when Rocket the Raccoon was like, you know, high five in the tree. Oh, damn, Chris. You guys.

Sorry. Shots fired at the ringer verse, huh? No, you know, I love it. I love, I love Thanos. It's fine.

I don't like the raccoon. I don't like the raccoon either I don't like the raccoon either. I would like him to stick to live action work. Chris, I'm with you. Can you guys hold your breath for a long time? That's what they got to do here. They got the gases, man. Were we not talking about this recently?

I think I can go 56 seconds. I wonder if my lung capacity has rebuilt itself. Is this like an autoerotic asphyxiation question, Chris? I'm always wondering how I've rebuilt my respiratory system after quitting smoking 10 years ago. I don't think that's how it works. It doesn't get rebuilt. You don't think it comes back?

I don't think so. I think it does. Sorry, brother. It does. I think it does, Chris. It says that on the side of a box of camels. It's like, if you quit. Bobby, don't encourage him, okay? He's not going to be the fucking winter soldier because he quit smoking.

It's mind over matter. I mean, I don't think he's going to run a marathon anytime soon, but... Chris, do you want to try it? You want me to break out a timer and time how long you can hold your breath? Hold your breath, Chris. I can only do it under...

It's more underwater for me. Oh, you can arrange that, of course. It's a long movie. Aquaman. I'll go fill up the tub. How would you guys feel if this movie was Bradley Cooper and Anthony Mackie? Think of all the different permutations you could have with actors.

I feel like they really nailed it, but I don't think everybody necessarily agrees who's seen this movie. There are probably a lot of different options that he had here. there is like a an insouciance to these two like an understatement that is it is a type of of humor and just like a vibe that i really like like you know it's amazing that robert pattinson introduces the whole we're gonna crash a plane into the thing by just being like you're not gonna like it like it, you know, very low key. And I, so I think it's great.

Other people seem to feel like sometimes they're not selling it hard enough, but if you had like Bradley Cooper, it would be really, you would, you would be hearing a lot about physics. You know, I've just, it would be like limitless,

but time, but, but tenant. So this is where this movie leaves the earth. So we are now officially in what we'll soon learn is a turnstile, which is a device that allows you to invert time. You just did it, it hasn't happened yet, and you just let it go right by.

That's such an exciting moment. Well, people can rewind if they want, but then they can't keep listening to the podcast, unfortunately. Well, I think they could probably also rewind the podcast and also isn't rewinding the whole point of this movie,

but continue. It is. Well, logical next question for you guys. If you could invert and redo something in your life, what would you do? Well, are you redoing it? Is that the point of this oh i mean changing the past with the future i would have dated more tall girls just just to see you know get get more of

the sample size what what is it what was it me or was it them you know oh my god what what are you talking what do you mean like physically yeah it's like something's off you know what i mean like it just doesn't work okay amanda what about you would you have dated more tall girls too i mean maybe like maybe that would have been better than dating short guys in retrospect. So that's also possibly where I went wrong.

I'll consider it. Amanda, you're sneaky tall. I am sneaky tall. And I have mostly dated people my height or slightly, slightly taller than me. And it worked out fine. I've only dated people

two feet and shorter. That's my taste. I almost married Toadstool from the Super Mario Brothers game. But moved on. Met Eileen. Very happy with her. She's beautiful.

She's pretty tall. She is pretty tall this is a metaphor for how Sean gets ready in the morning just like fighting with his future self just wrestling that's honestly true wow it's just it's it's self

loathing and physical exertion all at once and also I'm surrounded by beautiful art when I do it right yeah in my home all my Goya's my Picasso's understand though how much art is in these reports. All my Goya's, my Picasso's. Do you understand though how much art is in these free ports?

I don't. There's one in Switzerland obviously that's like one of the leading free ports. Oh no. It's like 1.2 billion dollars worth of art. They're like a hundred Picasso's. Do you guys like to... In a free port. Do you get freaked out contemplating how much art in museums might be forgeries?

No. Freaked out? The real art art in museums might be forgeries? No. Freaked out? The real art belongs to some guy in Dubai. He's got it in his penthouse, but what we're seeing at the Louvre is just a forgery. Does that fuck you up? No, it doesn't. It actually makes me excited. It makes me excited that nothing really matters.

That's nihilism at its greatest. If there's a guy in in dubai who has 100 picasso's that are the real picasso's then nothing means anything nothing has value we're all just floating through time yeah we're just making pods we are the nfts that's okay so we're we're in full uh confusing entropy mode now. We just watched the foe, the future protagonist, slide through that grate there and exit the Freeport and the airport. And now the movie is fully confusing. Amanda, why do you think Pattinson

allows himself to be a movie star in a supporting role like this? Isn't this everything anyone's ever wanted from this kid since Twilight and he's just pouring it on? And is it because he only has to come off the bench for 15 minutes? Yes, I think that's it. It's because he doesn't actually have to carry the whole movie and he doesn't have to have all of the Twilight franchise stuff attached to him. And I think it allows him being charming and everything we want

from him to be a choice as opposed to the thing that like we all expect from the leading man but he's really good at it I loved him in the lost city of Z that's a perfect example of him

playing second fiddle yeah and being able to do weird stuff and get away with it he's I remember of late he's been more at the center of the frame, I feel like, for the last few years. Yeah, I mean, I just remember going to see, like, the rover and just being like,

this kid is never coming back. Yeah. I mean, there is also, like, you know, Tom Hardy as Eames in Inception is, like, a similar role and charm level in a Nolan movie. And, you know, our instinct with that is like, why, why can't Tom Hardy or my instinct is like, why can't Tom Hardy be Eames all of the time?

But like, I don't actually think that's who Tom Hardy is. I think that, you know, it looks natural, but it's a performance. And I think- He's probably more like the guy in Taboo. He's like- Right. And right, exactly. And I think Pattinson, who seems like a very lovely guy, but like, I do think he is performing in this movie and it's a very appealing, natural, charismatic performance. I think he has charisma, but, you know,

I think sometimes he wants to be like a weird guy in weird indie movies and likes having the flexibility. Well, it'll be fascinating to see what he does after the Batman because he too, much like Debicki, is in the midst of this kind of amazing run of Lost City of Z, Good Time, High Life, The Lighthouse, The King, you know, the devil all the time, Tenet.

Oh my God, I forgot about The King. He's been taking on these really weird idiosyncratic parts and been fairly unafraid to be not pretty, not appealing, not charming. He's charming in this movie, but he's also a bit of a mystery. And the Batman is the Batman. That's the biggest brand in movies, period.

There's nothing bigger than Batman. So we'll see if he continues, if he decides he wants to lean back into movie stardom in a serious way or not. I'm curious. So Priya obviously is part of a kind of Illuminati type group of people who are waging this sort of underground war against the future terrorism being enacted by Sator, right? Yes and no.

I mean, there's some revelation, obviously, at the end of this film that she's maybe not what she presents herself as. Right, right. And that she is perhaps to blame for some of what's happening here as well. And like the idea of double agent and mirror images is obviously such a huge theme of this film. Amanda, where's Talon?

I don't know. I assumed this was somewhere Mediterranean. Oh, this is the Amalfi Coast, right? Yeah, the Amalfi. That's? I don't know. I assumed this was somewhere Mediterranean. Oh, this is the Amalfi Coast, right? Yeah, the Amalfi. That's what I would have thought. Tallinn is the capital of Estonia. Oh, yeah. But they also...

Is the vacation later on in Vietnam, I believe? Oh, yeah. This boat goes a lot of places. They're really making use of the yacht which respect and nobody just sends a text everybody's like

I gotta go back to Mumbai talk to this guy god it's beautiful that's how I would love to work man I would love to just be like much more face to face conversations

rather than texting you know we're getting there just drive over to Sean's and just be like hey I wanted to ask you something I'm sure you'd be well received how dare you hey man welcome chris into any environment i'm outside come out for a second i gotta talk to you about the bets god i know you don't want to talk about that yes i tell you what i'm not a boat guy but i would definitely get a speedboat

especially one with all this like wood paneling get me a speedboat my two foot tall wife so my understanding or at least the understanding that I've given myself is that Andre Sator is based off of and I'm going to say this delicately allegedly based on the owner of

Chelsea FC Roman Abramovich who is I mean I don't obviously know that but like he is a sort of Russian oligarch made his fortune in Europe owns Chelsea he's also sort of the character in Guy Ritchie's

Rock and Roll he's played by Tom Wilkinson in that movie but you know if you're looking for real life parallels i believe there was also um a similar art heist not an art heist but uh there were um some russian billionaires who got involved in a forgery scheme and then some bad things happened that kind of fill in that part of the goya plot line oh seder, of course, is played by Kenneth Branagh,

who is a very successful filmmaker and longtime adapter of Shakespearean works and also just a pure ham on a stick in this movie. You know, just absolutely flambéing that Russian accent, crisping it up. I really enjoy him in this movie. I think this movie needs

a little bit of cheese. I think he provides the cheese that we need. And Amanda, the reason why we do not have the Agatha Christie movie yet, among other reasons, is because he pushed back

production to make this movie, to make, to make Tenet. Yeah. And then it hit a whole host of other problems. I don't think we'll ever see that movie but um that's okay because the they had problems with the way they finished murder on the orient express um so that the poirot character actually wouldn't be able to

solve the death on the now mystery according to like where he is in space and time so well i mean we know time is relative. Yeah. You know, I also heard that in addition to Armie Hammer related issues pausing and potentially removing the future of that movie, they also wanted to turn all Agatha Christie IP over to you, Amanda, that you would be the Kevin Feige of the Christie-verse.

I'd be so good at it. But you have to wear a baseball hat and a blazer everywhere. So. He's pretty threatening. Yeah. To the point. He's efficient with his threats also.

Yeah, I was just going to say that. Do you aspire to that? To the expeditious way of talking, Chris? Do you think you could be like that if you were Abramovich rich? I can't be like this. It's not my nature. So, I mean, imagine that a person like this comes into your life.

Which one? Incredibly? Or JDW? No, JDW. Okay. You know, you're at dinner, you're on vacation with your family and your close friends i wouldn't say this seems like a barrel of monkeys this dinner party here but

this guy sits down and he's like i'm the protagonist of this story you're gonna give me what i want i i feel like i don't know justice for satyr i feel like he's in the right here trying to take this guy out i mean this is just some like you're laying the groundwork for your Seder. Thanos had a point at the end of the podcast. Seder is the real hero of Tenet. You're goddamn right, Amanda.

It's just I want you to know that I see where you're going. Do you think that Kenneth Branagh lost a bet to have to wear this outfit? It's extremely unflattering. We're gambling on like the Champions League final

and Nolan's like here's the thing if if paris wins you can wear whatever you want you can wear like you look awesome if if if my scheme wins you gotta wear a fucking lycra like under armor gray suit that like hugs your man boobs he's in the body glove it's bizarre yeah and and debicki meanwhile he's in the body glove it's bizarre yeah and and dabiki meanwhile he's wearing like wave runner flip-flops yeah and dabiki is like a perfect human specimen you know you can put anything on her person and she looks great and he looks like absolute shit i look like a thumb so i'm not judging kenneth branna but like and especially after a year inside like i'm not trying to be like i'm swagging out on dudes but this is tough for my boy to be in the Amalfi Coast wearing gray.

But like in another way, it's the ultimate flex. I would like a life for you, Chris, where you can just be in the Amalfi Coast wearing scuba gear, you know? And everyone's like, sure, we'll hang out with you. Yeah. So what is this kind of sailing called? Catamarans, right?

Are these catamarans? I've never done this before. Chris, you're a man of the ocean. You're a man of the sea. I actually am not. I enjoy the fiction and cinema of the sea, but I did get very seasick. And in fact,

have ruined several lovely day trips with my wife in various European countries because I couldn't handle the boat. Oh, no. So the famous blue caves in Croatia, a lovely trip around the Algarve in Portugal. Both times, Josh is just like,

I smell gas fumes. I'm getting sick. Oh no. Yeah. That's sad. I didn't know that. Yeah. Sounds like you should have held out for a taller wife.

Yeah. She could have saved you. She could have lifted your person. She could have just dipped her hand in the ocean and picked me up by the scruff of my neck. I have to say, this is not like what I would do if I were really rich.

There are a lot of like things that rich people do and even a lot of like boat choices, you know, sea vessels that appeal to me. Yacht. I mean, sure, i get it speedboat seems great but like sailing i this just seems like a lot of work i i i'm gonna have to agree yeah and you have to wear a helmet and with like that microphone like a britney mic that's i'm not looking for that level of gear i actually do i do want that i might you want gear

i might start rocking the britney mike everywhere i go okay i feel like that's a good good persona for me like the ted talk guy yeah yeah i want to see you get more like next time we do a pod like this sean i want you to have like ninjas back like his like his chair you know like the headphones like the the streaming video game streamer ninja. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Happy to do that.

Well, I've been, I've been streaming on Twitch every night for the last year. I don't know if you guys have checked out any of my, uh, my streams, but we've got a great community that's been following me donating on the side.

Yeah. I'm just playing Ninja game. My pillow. Yeah. I, I don't know how to open Twitch, but, but um and i would never look at your twitch it's shockingly intuitive yeah it's pretty cool actually that's not true once once ben affleck was playing live poker on twitch and i was like sure i'll watch this but then it was just like a stream of a computer poker game and i closed it again. Amanda, you wouldn't watch my Twitch stream? No.

God. I'm sorry. I value my time. I spend a lot of time with you. I consume a lot of your content, good and annoying. And a Twitch stream is where I would draw the line.

You won't respond to my texts, so I won't watch your Twitch stream. I always had a problem with this scene where it was like this highly trained bodyguard was just deterred by john david washington being like i'm not wearing pants you'll have to come back i would just be like put some fucking pants on or i'm coming in i've seen worse like it's just it's just he's just like so easily sent backwards

important question for you chris do you think right now john david washington is subscribing to the chris ryan school of no underwear and just just khakis that's your school that's sean fantasy university that's sfu well chris's school is no khakis after sex yes and your school is no like underwear with khakis but But I would note that Chris, you do seem like particularly fixated on just like the pants status of a spy in any movie. And I like, is that a spy thing? Or do you just like think about pants a lot? I do think about pants a lot.

Okay. Just like, am I wearing pants? I'm wearing shorts right now as we do this. It's a little bit warmer in Los Angeles today. Yeah. It's in the text in this one, you know,

it's on the screen for you. Yeah, it's true, I guess. Do you think Andre Sater has read any of the books in his boat library? No. Imagine having a boat library. That's a lot of bookstone. I would love to.

You know what would be a sick job? What? Is to just be the person who like curates the library for these people, but like they're not like, they're like,

oh, I read this or I like that. You're just like, I'll make you look cool and smart with like this $10,000 book budget. That's dope. I would be incredible at that. If anyone is looking for that kind of person in their life, DM me.

This is continuing the trend of Amanda desperately trying to get another job by talking about jobs she wants on podcasts. It's one of our funniest trends here. I really like books. You don't read books. Chris does read books, but he reads different books than I do.

And so I'm just trying to talk about books. You don't read books is what she just said. Simply not true. You were a fucking pea-brained Twitch streamer. That's what she said.

Blatant lie. We're learning about Stalsk 12 right now and you're blaspheming my book reading. Oh, right. Yeah. Little Chernobes vibes. Oh, right, yeah. Little Chernobyl vibes.

Tell us more. This is a nuclear site that Sator worked at as a young man, or as a child, I guess. Yeah, I assume as an older teenager. Were they unleashing 13-year-olds on nuclear test sites in the Soviet Union? I mean, it should get real over there. I guess they probably were.

But this is where he discovers a very important lockbox with some instructions and some gold handily and it's you know laminated which is always great that's helpful they knew it was going to be raining in stalsk 12 and um of course what's in there is a a delivery from the future with some requests about how to essentially discover and bury an algorithm that will help prevent world annihilation ultimately which is heavy stuff shit just got real in tenant chris i think you also got you got to get into that towel energy where you got the towel around your neck straight vodka and towels so um this is very bond is to just inexplicably host james bond or just like you know james bond you're a guest in my home even though you're clearly trying to

bring down my evil empire but by all all means, stay the night. Right. I mean, it's also very Bond of being like, just FYI, there is a MacGuffin offscreen that's going to destroy the world unless you figure out how to get all the pieces together before this movie ends. But that's okay. I like Bond movies.

What do we think that DeBecky's reading in this scene? She's got a book. Probably Hunteriden's memoir yeah no you don't think i got you with that one chris i got you yeah oh man my mind started racing and then i was like don't get fired brother so what we're seeing obviously is a kind of toxicity in a relationship that typically we don't see in in no one movies right a toxic a toxic couple we don't see well like i mean we were talking about we were talking about how this movie has like slightly better outcomes for the female character in a Nolan movie.

And I mean, not slightly. It's a definitely better outcome. But, you know, this is... She's treated like shit in this movie. Yeah, this is the downside. What do you think is up with...

I mean, I understand, you know, he's like, you got my kid and everything. They obviously have this bond. She knows some stuff about him. But like, if you're Andre Sator,

options... Your options are open. You know what I mean? Why is he hanging on with his fingernails to this relationship? I agree. I think that's a legitimate question that kind of undermines the whole movie. It's like, why are these people trying to spend time together? Who cares? Just break up. It's fine. Just raise your kid by herself, Kenneth Branagh. It's okay. I think that we're meant to understand that it's a slightly more complicated relationship and that these things get tricky.

And also she still, she wants to be in her kid's life. So. Oh, I get it from her perspective. He's not willing to share. Yeah. Yeah.

I definitely get it from her perspective, but the Seder, he's like, has this psychosexual love affair with a woman that he hates. Yeah. Right. Dude,

move on. And she just keeps throwing raspberries at him. Yeah. Okay, the protagonist is up to stuff. Again, what exactly is happening here now? This is a bit of a confusing period for me. This is a guy who tried to... They're bringing somebody

who tried to steal a gold bar from him, right? Off of the helicopter? From Sator? Isn't he about to kill somebody? He's definitely about to threaten someone and the protagonist will watch him basically from that little alleyway watch him threaten someone and then he gets recognized. Great light jacket right now

on JDW. So we're essentially trying to figure out what the protagonist is trying to figure out, which is really the core concept of this movie. A character who's confused and trying to get to the bottom of something he doesn't totally understand, which I think

is kind of a clever nod to the viewing experience. It's like it's a little bit of that self-awareness we were talking about before. Yeah, I like the metaness of it,, it's a little bit of that self-awareness we were talking about before. Yeah. I like the madness of it. And it also, I find it reassuring when I have no idea what's going on, which full disclosure,

I had forgotten that this scene happened until it started playing. And I have, this is my third time watching this movie, but, you know, trying to make sense of a plot that is by design, slightly Bondy and nonsensical. Um, I appreciate having the protagonist protagonist as a standard.

One thing I would never do if I were a Russian oligarch is, is kill someone with a gold brick. I simply would not. I would just hire someone to do that for me. I don't, especially not if like you were trying to keep your, your blood pressure or your heart, your BPM at a certain level. Yeah, but that's how

you guys will never become Russian oligarchs, you know? There's a couple things going against me in that department. Sure, that's right. Number one,

namely that you haven't dated taller women. That's right. Apparently. How's your Russian accent, Chris? It's not good. Okay. i feel like i'm trying to speak backwards when i do a russian accent i just always get into like count dracula pretty quickly whenever i'm doing it next warning there's going to be a bullet in your brain. Yeah, that is.

We're going to come up on a break pretty soon. I'm sure those of you who are watching at home may need to use the bathroom. May need to press the pause button. We do too. So we're going to be pressing the pause button just as soon as we see what the hell happens to the protagonist here, who seems to be in a bit of peril.

This is Sierra talking about his wife on a pod. I definitely involved her in my business. So there's just like this sort of lattice work right now of people doing jobs for other people, but there's also a lot of like ulterior motives for why they're doing jobs for other people but there's also a lot of ulterior motives for why they're doing jobs for other people. And the thing that's sort of strange about this particular

story is that it just seems like all of the characters are aware that they are also being... that there's subterfuge against them. You know what I mean? Like, John David Washington and Sator both are acknowledging that they're against each other, but are still working together.

Yeah. Although here's a big question I have about all this work. These guys have like bank accounts and direct deposit and salaries and health insurance. When you work for the tenant operation and you're a ghost, what's the rest of your life like? Yeah. I guess they don't show a lot of the tradecraft

or the frameworks of who they are. Or even their back-end HR department. How do you log expenses? Do they have covers? PTO? Right. Yeah, they have a bowling league. They have a rec pickup

basketball league they play in together. These guys have slack? Yeah. Do they even really have phones? No. Yeah, that's interesting. Interesting observation. I mean, I think that's smart. They have so many suits, but no phones.

Right. I mean, I think that's both a good filmmaking decision and a good life decision. Amazing suits, no luggage. Right. I mean, I think that's both a good filmmaking decision and a good life decision. Amazing suits, no luggage. Yeah, true. Is this where we're breaking for the ad? Yeah, we've arrived at another free port. So let's take a quick break. As we restart here after that ad break,

if you want to stay as synced up as possible with the commentary track, please restart your movie at the 1-10-26 mark of the film in HBO Max, the shot of the Freeport, and the car as the man is about to open the door for Elizabeth Debicki's character. Go ahead and start it in three, two,

one. So Amanda, since you're all excited about Freeport and your future investment in Freeport, will you be bringing your husband to the Freeport as well? To visit? Yeah. He really hates being a part of this podcast and

I think he really would hate any speculation about his involvement at the Freeport. I think Zach is probably just anti Freeport in general, right? Like he thinks art should be out there for the people. Yeah. Nationalize it. I think it should too. Do you guys think that there is any symbolic importance to DeBecky's outfit? Because Nolan does so much stuff with color.

He does so much stuff with what people are wearing at any given point in his movies. Obviously, he's something of a clothes hound himself. But she's wearing this beautiful red dress with red heels. Everybody else is wearing gray or black. Well, once we go through the turnstile, which is a sentence that I never thought I would say out loud, isn't there some color coding aspect to being able to tell what direction that you're in? And I can't remember which is red and which is blue.

And they've got the red ribbons on their backpacks once they're traveling through. So I wonder whether this is meant to be a visual reminder as well. Though she becomes involved in the turnstile hijinks. So again, I don't totally know what I'm saying. I think it's also just the same way that the little girl is shown all in red in Schindler's List as a symbol of kind of innocence and being trapped in the midst of all this terror. There's something very much to that point too. Like this, that Elizabeth Debicki is innocent and everyone else is a part of this violent machine

trying to win some war. And that's really what happens. Like, I think if you want to, you know, metaphorically analyze it, that's probably what Nolan's trying to do, Chris, to your question. Yeah. But also, yeah, you're right, Amanda,

that at a certain point, blue and red become significant storytelling devices. So it's actually a little bit confusing sooner rather than later, because this is the scene in question. I think so to me, we're coming up on the, the, the best scenes in the movie.

I mean, I think that the, as we get closer to the, the highway pursuit, that's really the, the spine of this story and everything turns on that too. I really, really dig Pattinson's work vest that he's got. I really want to get this thing.

Yeah. Where it's just putting cool shit in pockets up on your chest. Chris, you own like 40 vests. Are you sure you don't own this? I think it's a great look for you. If you don't have this one, would love's I think it's a great look for you. If you don't have this one would love to get it for you.

This is very upsetting. This is horrible. Yeah. I mean. In case you weren't sure, Andre Sater was an absolute piece of shit when he murdered

a guy with a gold brick. Here he is kicking his wife, beating the mother of his child and spitting on her pretty good villain unusually evil on under nolan terms he doesn't usually go with something that is this

purely vile yeah you know You know, the Joker, obviously there's a kind of sense of anarchy and chaos, but there's an intentionality. Two-Face obviously is conflicted. Bane is conflicted. Bane's just a Green New Deal guy looking for...

Did Bane vote for Sleepy Joe, you think? Oh my God. Oh my God. That's a great question. Does Bane vote? I wouldn't think so. Bobby says no.

Bobby, you're saying no or are you saying I'm appalled that this conversation's happening? Oh no, I want this conversation to continue very much and I don't think that he votes. He just doesn't see a candidate that represents him, you know?

Yeah. He's so close to a Bernie, bro. So close. No, he's a libertarian. No. Just vote blue no matter who did libertarian no i think it's true maybe he's a cory booker guy i have a very basic question as we start the most consequential scene in the film where in the well that's two important questions like literally like where are we geographically? I don't know what country we're in right now.

Okay. We're in a country that has a Freeport. This is Estonia, I think. It is Tallinn. You're right. Oh,

okay. Got it. Yes, because that is actually the name of the song on the score. Okay. So,

there is one issue with this coming scene. Just one? No, I mean, this scene is hysterical. Like, how they pulled it off, guys jumping on and off of trucks,

cars going backwards. Put this in a fucking museum. I would argue that there is a little bit of a Flight of the Valkyries problem with this, which is basically like in Apocalypse Now when they do the Flight of the Valkyries scene with the helicopters. That scene is too good.

And it's too good to happen that early in the movie. And I would argue that between the Freeport heist and this car sequence, truck sequence, whatever you want to call it, this chase, it's almost impossible to top this in your own movie. Like in the, I actually think that the only flaw of this film, aside from it doesn't make any I actually think that the only flaw of this film, aside from it doesn't make any sense,

is that the end cannot possibly match those two sequences. What do you guys think of that? I think that's true. And we'll talk about the ending when we get to it because I think it's the part that doesn't add up for yours truly, even though I studied entropy. But I think the ingenious thing about this sequence, in addition to it being so good is that they do it twice. They run it back like,

you know, and you get to revisit and you're like, Oh my God, you're doing it again. And that is very exciting, both in the sense of getting to watch it twice, but in that slightly meta way of like, Oh,

that that's so funny that they've just decided to show you how they did this from the other side so but it kind of also lessens some of the the disappointment because you actually do get to revisit it well we we don't get to see this particular part of it again the actual truck heist aspect of the story we only get to see the kind of reverse driving sequence which is coming very shortly yeah and you know i think this is very kind of um you know michael man meets michael bay filmmaking that nolan has kind of perfected the sort of intense urban settings heist oriented storytelling it feels very similar to the truck flipping in the dark knight in terms of the scale in terms of the way

that he uses the music and the kind of the moment in the story when you're finally getting a sense of like where everything is going the Joker is free the algorithm is in play they're making a bid for it we don't even really know what the algorithm totally does but Pattinson and JDW are trying to steal it goes without saying that stuff like this is virtually impossible to shoot there's five filmmakers on earth who can make stuff like this is virtually impossible to shoot. There's five filmmakers on earth who can make stuff like this work. Maybe like Cameron Nolan. I don't know this Bigelow. It's a very low. Yeah,

right. And he obviously does it really well here. But this is ultimately, and I don't mean this as an insult. It is still kind of conventional. It's still a heist sequence in a series of moving vehicles. And as soon as they get to the end of this is when things flip and we see something we've never seen before in a movie,

which is all about reverse action. As far as whether or not it's like comes too soon, or it's all big letdown after that, Chris, I think that the, the bigger issue that I had, and I think other people had with it watching it the first time around is not that I felt like what came next was disappointing,

but more that it was so disorienting that you kind of had to give up at a certain point. You had to say like, you know what? I'll figure it out. I'll read the Wikipedia. I'll get on Reddit. I'll figure out what this is about. I just need to just take in the experiences. The movie is still fairly legible up until this point. So the reason I brought it up is because in the documentary about the making of apocalypse now hearts of darkness coppola talks about how the original ending of apocalypse now was supposed to be this huge shootout at kurtz's compound and that there was going to be this big big fight sequence and that he felt like he couldn't top the flight of the valkyries and what the ending of the film needed was something that was more like thematically and emotionally

like weighty, but not trying to top the earlier sort of set pieces of the movie. And I do wonder what a quieter, more like intimate ending of Tenet would have looked like and how it would have played. That's kind of what I liked about it though though i felt like it actually did have a kind of a beautiful yeah no it has poetry to it for sure and it it actually weirdly has like i get emotional i mean i i think i find it very moving at the end of this movie right but you're talking about like the personal element at the end of the moving and not the giant set piece yeah like climactic action sequence that comes before it which i i think we all agree is it's not what we're seeing right now it's not at that

at this level no so this is obviously we just learned here that robert pattinson is ahead of the game that he knows what's going on that he knows that that word those words were just spoken backwards not in estonian and then in fact he may not be exactly who he says he is. And I just don't know how they did the sequence. So this kind of reminds me of driving in Croatia when I went there. Sean, you would do very well on the roads of Croatia, like in the highways. Some fast drivers, huh? Guys get after it.

Yeah. Because the basic, like the law of the road there is like, if you go fast, like if you want to go fast, you get the left lane. And if somebody is behind you,

you go into the right lane. It's just like, there's only two rules. Chris, that is the law of the road in America. Yeah, but nobody abides by it. People who don't abide by it will lose to me on the road.

No, but like, nobody abides by it. Like, there's no cops out there being like you're driving 68. You know, it's like they just are like, we know that you guys know how to drive. You're doing it out here on the bonds. Okay, so I just want to point out. We just saw Sator. Okay. Well, now car is flipping over.

That was really sick. So we saw Syr in the mask which means that he's inverted at the moment and and dabiki is in red also in the car with him but i don't know whether that's supposed to be color coding i don't i don't know that it is but i do think it means it just means that inverted satyr has kidnapped non-inverted dabiki right and is holding her hostage in order to get the algorithm out of the possession of JDW and Robert Pattinson.

Okay. And now we see that she is imperiled badly. Chris, do you ever go as a fireman at Halloween? No, I'm not a big... I don't really dress up at Halloween I haven't done that ever in decades what's your go to Halloween costume

about like when you were five yeah I wasn't asking like last year if you dressed up as a fireman in the last two decades you would have some issues I think three decades is reasonable I I don't think so we would have some issues. I think three decades is reasonable. I I don't think so.

No, I was more of like a Luke Skywalker or Dracula kind of guy. Amanda, you are a volunteer firefighter. You've been doing that

for about 15 years. So this is Volunteer firefighters do important work. I agree. That's why I appreciate all that you've done for our community

I haven't I really have not I'm not trained in that area maybe I will be one day it's important work okay

he saved the day Pattinson did his own driving for the most part I I believe so or at least that's what he said

told GQ magazine dude I fuck with Peugeots are kind of sick yeah you know I believe so. Or at least that's what he said, told GQ magazine. Dude, I fuck with... Peugeots are kind of sick. Yeah. You know? Are they? Yeah. I think that basic European cars

just have better vibes than basic American cars. No disrespect to the American car industry. Chris, you are in spawn territory here for real. If the lovely people at Pe pujo want to come sponsor me they'll give you a podcast called the laws of the road and then you can just travel from country to country and explain how really basic driving through europe and me being like so yeah you're gonna want to pass him on the left okay so unfortunately he did not save anybody he thought he saved her i guess he saved her

life technically but now they've been apprehended and they're being dragged into the freeport and what is behind this freeport besides this table full of guns which we didn't really examine earlier but say door did have a table full of guns and here we go red and blue amanda here are your lighted color schemes i love colors this is the most color we've had in this movie so far really other than in The Amalfi Coast. So here we see

inversion. This is true inversion. The two sides of the wall indicate moving forward in time and moving backward. So right now Sater is inverted on the other side

and the John David Washington's character is in normal moving forward time. See he's speaking in reverse at least to our perception okay they didn't really when I did all my physics reading they didn't explain how words forming backwards worked I believe it's being interpreted for him by being on the other side of the glass. Okay. I mean, I guess it would be in the sense that sound waves actually do move a certain way.

It's like the, what's the ambulance? You know, the something effect? Doppler effect? Is that what it is? Yes, the Doppler effect. Right. So then if you're moving the other way, then the sound is coming to you in a different order as well. And he just shot an inverted bullet through his wife.

Which is worse than even getting shot normally. Correct. Now he just gave up the location of the algorithm that he saved, which now means that inverted Seder is going to go back in time to go get that algorithm piece. So there are literally

two satyrs looking at one another, inverted and non-inverted. And then here comes Aaron Taylor Johnson and the homies. That's right. Seal Team 6, aka the Tenant Boys, back in the building. Now this, I gotta say, when i was watching this movie the

first time i was like i this is just not this is completely incoherent like literally incoherent the character speaking backwards but also just the storytelling i didn't understand it at all and i think this is a moment when people were like come on man what is this now yeah i i think like how open you are to what comes next is an interesting conversation i think and there's also like i would love to you know talk there's also like, I would love to, you know, talk about going back in time. I would love to watch this movie cold with a theater full of people

and see if this is when you start to see people stirring or if people are like locked the fuck in because they're like, my grapes just got squeezed into juice. I think it's a question of when you're confused at a movie, does it anger you or lure you in? Because this one clearly

angers people in some respects because it is so unsparing in its forward momentum for, sorry, I don't mean that as a pun, but it's just like, we're just going. We're just going to continue to go and we'll explain some stuff,

but if you don't get it, sorry, hang in there. This is the argument you would make for the protagonist, quote unquote, being a little bit more of like a detective or investigator rather than being movie out of my head like chinatown very confusing film at various points but you're seeing the movie the world through the eyes of jake giddes in chinatown so you're like okay he is as confused as the audience jdw doesn't like stop to be like what the fuck is happening he kind of takes everything in stride and is like got it okay so inversion we entropy i understand these basic concepts now. Yeah. I mean, I would argue the other thing that you could do is just not make it that complicated. Some of this, to me, feels like Nolan playing for people who are then going to dissect it on

message boards and be like me and try to read about physical concepts and be like, okay, how does it work? And there's like a little too much exposition here. And I think if you told me, all right, if you are over here, then it's going forward. And if you're over here, it's like going backward and you don't have to think about it that much. I don't know. I mean, he has the precedent of all of his movings having to add up on like, you know, 45 different levels, including like science whatever and he

seeded things like the satyr square and all of these sort of things that like but the satyr square which we like kind of referenced and then like i also did some reading on that and it's just a puzzle right it doesn't it doesn't mean anything ultimately which is i guess sort of a nihilistic thing to put in the center of your puzzle movie. But that's the thing is this is essentially the scene when DiCaprio gives his speech about being stuck in limbo in Inception. And you're starting to find out that he and Marion Cotillard go into this world of dreams, and then they start building a city out of the dreams and more and more layers of the dream world. And you're kind of being guided through that.

And some people might be like, oh, I get it. I get the metaphor, but I also get the reality of this. I think that this is a lot more dense than Inception. It is, but it is very much in keeping with the theme of almost all of his movies. The idea of the accordion effect

or the daisy chain effect of storytelling where in Memento, the beginning is the end and the end is the beginning. In Insomnia, the complete disorientation of not knowing when it's daytime and when it's nighttime. Have you slept? Have you not slept? Are you waking or are you dreaming? Likewise in Inception. Even in the Dark Knight movies, this idea of Bruce Wayne being caught between the polarity of his identities. Everything is about black then white, red then blue.

Where does something start and where does something end? I think in some of the movies, the ones that feel to me like they take themselves more seriously, I don't think that works as well. In this case, I think because of the fearlessness

in letting people understand what he's trying to say, it actually does work a little bit better for me personally, but at worst, it's in keeping with the core theme of every story that he's told. I mean, Dunkirk is the same way, seeing the same event basically from three different perspectives and the way the time shifts and moves. that the protagonist needs to invert so that he can go after Sator, so that he can stop him from acquiring the algorithm, so that he can stop him

from ending the world, essentially. Giving an opportunity to have the world ended, I think, ultimately in 200 years, which is with the people who have paid Sator to bury the algorithm so that they can discover it

in the future and delete our world so that they can discover it in the future and and and delete our world so that they can save their own delete our past to save their future is essentially what their plan is but he hasn't given that speech yet about no that's not until he's doing it the end right yeah towards the end yeah okay i think it would we're probably gonna have to get ahead of some of the story turns here because uh it all wraps up pretty quickly right aaron taylor johnson as ives also another immensely disorienting thing where i just did not know this man was in the film yeah this. This is a pretty famous actor. And the way that this last scene is shot, and there's also so much information going on, I don't think I realized. I was like, huh, that kind of looks like Aaron Taylor-Dawson.

And then I was like, I have to focus on all of this dialogue that they're sharing with me to try to understand this made-up science. And then like an hour later in this movie, you're like, oh yeah, that's really him. I don't think it can be overlooked that just utter coincidence, the remarkable coincidence of a moot, this being a movie about how wearing masks will keep you safe when you enter a dangerous place. And then it coming out in 2020, I, you know,

yeah, I hadn't thought about that. I don't, I don't mean that to be glib. Like I'm sincerely, it's so strange that, that, that on the poster that we saw in February of 2020, John David Washington was wearing a mask and that's how they sold the movie.

Yeah. I know it probably doesn't matter, but I always like to think that Aaron Taylor Johnson's character, his character named Ives is also a character in The Great Escape. And I like the idea of it being kind of like an homage to sort of a reverse, you know, like rather than breaking into some place or breaking out. Yeah, probably is, right? I think that's a good call. Yeah. There's an iconic shot right there of the mask

and the first time he's experiencing inversion. This is like when I took my first edible. It's like, Jesus Christ, look at that bird. That bird is flying. Just take edibles and watch DeGrom. Ball's going back into his hand. Oh my God. It feels that way sometimes, doesn't it?

It certainly feels like the Mets are moving in reverse progress of late. Hopefully by the time this airs, that won't be the case. So, Chris, do you think, you know, since you struggled on the streets of Croatia, if you had inversion in your favor, would you be a better driver? No, I actually, I'm saying I loved driving in Croatia. The actual, actual like in the downtown split or downtown dubrovnik was a little bit complicated and they don't really put their

gas stations in very logical places it's like the gas station is on an island in the middle of croatia is listening to this and we'll make those changes another another spawn me up if you want me to say visit Croatia, I will because I believe it. I loved it. You just, you have some notes on where their gas stations are.

Yeah, I would just start, I would just look to New Jersey in terms of the logical places to put gas stations. First time anyone's ever said that.

Really do have every single type of car in here. I was, he's driving a Saab. I've seen a Kia. I've seen an Audi. I've seen a BMW. I've seen an Audi. I've seen a BMW.

I've seen Chris's Peugeot. That's right. Whoops. Uh-oh. It's not there. Algo not there. Not what you want. Not what you want if you're inverted. Little does he know that he is

obviously contributing to satyr's plan right satyr's plan that he is aware of all of this which is one of those things that it's like a little bit hard to start thinking too hard about the idea of satyr knowing that he was going to be helped here by the protagonist operating in reverse because it makes you question the the outplay of all the future events here it's like if you knew about this then how does he not know about the next thing right how does he get a leg up on him basically if you think about the multi multi multi existences universes opportunities because when you're talking about a movie like this like it's

not just there's not just going backwards and going forwards once you go backwards you create a new reality once you go backwards you come backwards forwards you create a new reality it's like it's a series of confusing kind of pipe cleaner lines and that's how marty mcfly invents rock and roll that's right that's right which of course we know is um culturally sensitive how long i think we talked about this during the back to the future rewatchables but did you was culturally sensitive. How long? I think we talked about this during the Back to the Future rewatchables, but did you actually think

that Johnny B. Goode was written by Michael J. Fox for a while when you were a kid? No, because I'm not a fucking moron. I honestly don't know. I honestly don't know.

When you first heard Johnny B. Goode, were you like, this is the greatest tune God's ever written? I thought it was know. I honestly don't know. When you first heard Johnny B. Goodwin, you're like, this is the greatest tune God's ever written. I thought it was sick. Yeah, I thought it was a good song. It's a good song. Yeah. I like Chuck Berry.

It was probably like also like when did Back to the Future come out? Like 86, right? I think so, yeah. So like what? I'd heard like 100 songs by that point, maybe. You were like nine? Yeah, so like how many songs I heard? You'd heard more a hundred songs by that point. Maybe. You were like nine? Yeah.

So how many songs I heard? A hundred? You'd heard more than a hundred songs. You heard a hundred driving in a car over a weekend. Do you know how many commercials were on the radio? You usually hear the same 10 songs over and over again with lots of like, come on down to my Ford dealership. I'll throw a pie on your face.

What? Those were the kind of ads we were here on the radio it's like two inverted people were like just talking to each other and it was sort of important and you know now all i know about is the pie dealership so this was an interesting thing i don't still totally understand the science of this where when there's fire if you're inverted it means it gets really cold yeah because the fire is going away from you right but would that be true of every single experience that you're having you know is it only for natural elements that it has to have the the reverse element um i'm trying to think about this i think

the theory behind some of the science is that you as an inverted person are like a closed system okay so you're inverted and your experience of the world is inverted but the world itself is not i don't know we've entered that's where my understanding ends yeah we've entered hits bong phase of the film okay well aren't they about to do like all the paradoxes and the fake philosophy to try to teach people like don't don't worry about it which i took at face value do you guys take a lot of philosophy in college i didn't i took cultural criticism so like a little mostly post-structural stuff okay yeah incredible answer but i remember you know what when i found out about sign and a little mostly post-structurally stuff. Okay. Yeah. Incredible answer.

But I remember, you know what, when I found out about Sign and Signifier, I literally had to take a fucking walk. I was like, you can't be serious, man. When they were like, how did we agree to call this thing a tree?

And then we all just decided that's a tree? Yeah. That's like, come on. You're talking about semiotics right now. Yeah. You're talking about Foucault and Derrida and all that. That's what I'm talking about. Yeah. That's not really come on. You're talking about semiotics right now. Yeah. You're talking about Foucault and Derrida and all that.

That's what I'm talking about. Yeah. That's not really what this movie is about. This movie is about science. Is it? I think in a way, I think it's operating

on scientific principles. You know, like I think all the work that Nolan did on Interstellar kind of fucked with him, kind of messed with him a little bit

and made him think about it. Yeah, because he's got that dude Kip in his pocket and he's telling him all this stuff and he's just like, keep hitting me up with these theories, man. It seems like he got really invested in the concepts of physics and nuclear technology in a lot of ways.

Yeah, well, because they ultimately are really theoretical and existential that's like what's so hard about them i think that the fire and ice thing has to do with the fact that entropy is actually a measurement of like energy and temperature so like leaving a body and coming back into a body and so in the same way that like gravity is reversed for him, so is temperature. So does that mean that there is a stasis? Because that's what's confusing to me. Like let's say your body temperature is,

you know, 96 degrees Fahrenheit. If you just stay at 96 degrees Fahrenheit when you're inverted, there's no ramifications there. You wouldn't go to the inversion of 96 degrees. That's kind of, because everything has a temperature, right? It has has an active temperature fire has a temperature and you're reacting against that and so you get ice you know that if you're a closed system of 96 degrees

fahrenheit why is there no inversion effect there or if there is a base level of stability in your body that's what i'm sure p is the energy going out or in. So if he got a head cold, would he then get a crazy inversion of a head cold? Yeah, what's the inversion of a head cold? Just feeling like you can breathe really freely? At that point, I think you're... Super clear nostrils? What is that? You're breaking your theory

of taking the movie too literally, thinking about him getting a head cold. Well, you're offering a scientific explanation, so I'm just trying to understand it. While we were chatting this up, Neil kind of threw out this idea that there is a war basically between these two periods of time, right? That the people who are moving backwards

through time and the people who move forwards and that the people who move forwards have the leg up because that's the way time flows. But that the more and more things that go back it's starting to turn the tide correct yes yes incidentally there's causality

I would just like to say that this movie not super emotional mm-hmm you there there's like some hints or feints like he's maybe got feelings for the Elizabeth DeBecke character so he's going to go save her back in time. But the real love story of this movie is,

is protagonist. Yeah. Yeah. It's very beautiful. Do we need to have the art team put Chris's face on Neil and Amanda's face on DeBecke and my face on Sator? Okay face on Debicki and my face on Sator. Okay.

Sure. Yeah. That'd be great. I'd love to be that tall. She can really wear some clothes. I feel like I came

out golden in this. My net worth just went through the roof. I know. Yeah. That's also spoiler alert for you

sir. Yeah. You got a bad outcome. Yeah. So they just got a bad outcome. Yeah. So they just did the grandfather paradox, which we talked over, but there's no answer is the resolution.

They know they got to go back to where they started, right? They got to go back to the free port. They got to save Debicki by going in, getting back to the turnstile to go in reverse. That's the only way to save her. And once they've done that, they can then figure out how to attack Sater's plan and use her because they need her to go after Sater's plan.

And they're going to, because they're going to have a confrontation as well. This is this sort, these data points are a little bit easier to understand once you've read about the movie a little bit. Once you've seen it a couple of times, again, the first time I saw it mystified by what the hell they were doing

i feel like this part's a little bit easier to understand just in the sense of they're going back to places you've been before so they've laid the groundwork for for what you're seeing and you have something to hold on to so if you're willing to just go along with it. As they ask you to. It's okay. The science. I don't know that we'll ever resolve that. Because none of us graduated from high school physics.

It would seem. So we're redoing the Freeport heist. Yes. They're taking her directly to a turnstile. Love the reverse water coming out of the hoses. Again, I don't know how they shot this. I don't know how they... I mean, I guess they just had these characters moving in reverse,

so it made it seem as if they were moving forward and then reverse the film. Right, which is the old Spike Jonze music video trick, right? Right. But the way that they've captured it here is utterly convincing. That requires an incredible level of choreography and staging. He's fighting himself.

It's a metaphor. I don't mean to be sarcastic that's sort of it's an exciting reveal yeah this is like when I look in the mirror on the day after the Oscars okay

what have I done what have we done I didn't do anything I just watched an awards show and did a podcast and then went to sleep. It's just about me, man. I'm just,

it's my own self loathing. Okay. My own wrestling match with my own ideas. Where are you guys on pinstripes? I can't do it. Can't. I'm not tall. I think it probably makes me a little taller,

but I feel like I like, I just appreciate either a charcoal print or like a straight blue suit. Okay. Yeah, I'm not Al Capone, so I don't need to wear pinstripes. I turn on ESPN and I see guys wearing pinstripes in 2021 and I'm like, how did you let this happen? This is fantasy.

One thing that might send him to an insane asylum is the fact that fantasy gets triggered by sports pundits' suit choices and when they wear like you know like different colored ties and like crazy socks with double-breasted suits and giant collars hate the windsor knot i've always hated the windsor knot that's like john lynch when he used to be on tv would always have like it would look like he had like an 18th century collar with like a giant Windsor knot.

And he has a neck like a beer keg. Yeah. It's like if they sent Frankenstein to the tailor. I mean, you guys are talking about, I know I started this conversation, but John David Washington just like ducking from his own like shots that he, that's pretty

cool. This is an exciting fight. So there he just went through the turn how would you even give notes on a script like this well but that's all used to nolan's nolan's power right that he probably didn't right which you could make the case is not a good thing that he probably could have used one to two more expositional scenes but there's so now we're back to that famous moment when neil sees who in the suit. And of course, he sees his friend exiting Inversion and now going back forward. This is sick. I mean, that looks very cool.

Also, look at my guy's hair slicked back under that mask. He looks fantastic. You think you'd want to have some athleisure for this sequence? No, I like it. I mean, that's what makes it cooler. Your vest, man. These guys dress better robbing a Freeport

than I have since like February. Last February. February? Right, but yeah. February of 1992? Just

like them. Yeah. Oh. Dope. just like them yeah oh that's a good bit i'm gonna try that one day tapping the side of the car then knocking the guy out i think i missed that the first time okay so now in she goes through the time hospital yeah so that she can be saved

this is just an incredible expense for for one person's life in a battle between the future and the past

well I think it's because they feel like they need her right to kind of close the loop on on Sator and get him to not do the thing right isn't it they're trying to intercept a phone call essentially

so they need her and also he loves her she's wearing scuba gear as well i'm gonna take off my fifth bit. Do you think that he loves... Like, who loves her? Sator or JDW? Oh, we all love her. You know, she's a tall gal. I love her. I love her. I think that the idea is like

she's maybe supposed to represent the one thing pure and human in this movie. Correct. All these other guys are fucking operators. She's in an abusive marriage and that is not her fault. And it also isn't her fault that she tried to sell a fake Goya, because we're made to believe that she believes that the paintings or the sketches

that kind of get her on Sator's bad side are real, right? Or are we meant to believe that she's working with the the forger. Remember? Yeah, I thought they were having an affair of some kind. Oh, a repo? Right, okay. Yeah. I mean, also she married a Russian billionaire with some questionable things.

So should we talk about the Max-Neal theory? That Neal is? Mm-hmm. That Neal is basically Debecky's child, right? Yes. And the thinking there is that his full name is Maximilian,

spelled L-I-E-N at the end of Maximilian, which of course inverted is Neal. And that the little boy, Elizabeth Debicki's little boy, who's the object of dispute between Sater and Debicki's character, will eventually grow up to be Neil, part of the Tenet program, and that

by the time we get to the end of this movie, we see that the protagonist is on an infinity loop of saviordom, of saving and saving and saving again. He is enlisting, recruiting people over time to participate. Then Neil is his ace in the hole.

I don't know if that's actually true. I don't think he's like, I accidentally named this guy Maximilian, the kid Maximilian spelled that way. That's the thing with Nolan is that there's no, there's no, Oh,

I didn't even think of that. Well, you disagree, Amanda. Well, so, okay. So it's Maximilian L I E N.

Is that right? Yes. So what is the name? Full name supposed to be in reverse? Neil of like, that's, is that a name? No,

I don't, I don't, I think it's more just a, it's a code name for Neil. Sure. But I I think it's more just a code name for Neil. Sure. But I'm just saying. Neil is a code name for Maximilian. Right.

It seems like one of those things where that works out. But like maybe people are trying so hard. Trying hard. But also. If. If Robert Pattinson. If Neil is Max. Then.

There's like a multiverse element to this right because neil and max both exist in this like they're both in this universe at the same time yes even though they're not in the same place and he's i i don't know but as we just saw that we saw two satyrs looking at one another through the wind through the through the glass and the turnstile. And so we know that that can happen. We can have existences in which there are two versions of the same person. But aren't they at an... That's because the turnstile is the inflection point between the one time and the other.

So there's something that you'd have to do in terms of time and age that in order to have a child and Robert Pattinson be the same person who exists in this world that hasn't been explained in the science yet. So Priya is also laying out this fight for the future of the future against, I guess, the present or the past or whatever, however you want to describe it. But she's also suggesting that there is in her mind this evil doctor behind a lot of it, which I think many people think is the Clemens Posey character, right? Yes, that's been speculated. So the doctor invented

the algorithm. And that algorithm could create the opportunity to destroy the past to save the future but much like say robert oppenheimer who you know created the this this this atomic bomb he had an incredible this doctor has an incredible amount of regret about what she has invented and so that's part of the reason why all of the pieces of the algorithm are spread across all of these nuclear sites and so that is what seder has been doing over this time, is he's been retrieving these pieces

so that he can restore the algorithm so that it can ultimately be discovered. And that also, I guess, is kind of a metaphor for the things that we create that destroy us. That's obviously, that's a climate change story. That's a story about nuclear warfare. It's a story about how humanity has basically like ruined earth yeah i mean it's the same thing for interstellar i didn't know the clements poesy theory that makes my brain hurt a little too much well otherwise there's really no explanation for introducing a nameless character in the middle of the movie who does what she does. So it's like by deduction I think it works. Exposition. Yeah, but that would be bad.

That would be bad exposition. That would be like this character you're not going to meet is actually the villain behind all of this. It stacks up that every single character that we meet in this movie matters. The only person who I think does the exposition thing who does not matter is Martin Donovan. He's the one person who you could credibly say there's no other theory for who that is

he's just the handler type who is Michael Caine oh good point you're right that's two dude the waves in this this shot is so sick the waves so those are inverted waves. Yeah. Is that the name of that boat? The Imagine Viking? Magna Viking. The Great Viking, right? Magna Viking? Is that what it said?

Yeah. Chris, what would you name your boat? The Tall Girlfriend. The Jacob de Grom that's your boat yeah that boat would be leaky I think unfortunately for me I wish I wish I had a dead man switch I just took my

because this creeps me out I just took my my Fitbit off because I was like thinking about getting getting the dead man switched on this podcast do you think there's a

do you think right now Amanda is trying to figure out a way to trigger your death with your own technology I think Bill has a button in his house. And if I stop potting, if I stop making this content for people, boom, I'm out. When I go to Bill and I'm like, Bill, I really want to go back. I want to start teaching English in high school or something.

He's going to be like, good luck. So here is my biggest plot hole that has absolutely nothing to do with science okay she has just shared that sejor has inoperable pancreatic cancer and that he's doing a lot of this because he's about to die i don't mean to make light of what is clearly an abusive marriage but why isn't she just waiting until he dies to you know to do all the things that she's doing yeah because he's about to die i have no answer it's a great question all right thank you meaning like max would be her son again once he dies from yeah i mean he has inoperable pancreatic cancer she's just living that Dawson's Creek theme song life, man.

She doesn't want to wait. Okay, that's beautiful. Well, furthermore, like, here's a bigger question. If their fear is that the past will be deleted or destroyed by those in the future who are attempting to save the planet and their existence from climate change or whatever else is going to destroy the earth. I mean this sincerely, like, who who cares like like why does it matter like if it's just like if it's

i know it's pure nihilism but like whatever like if we just got deleted right now just right now mid-pod right there was a snap a thanos snap, and we disappeared. We wouldn't know. No one would know. Everything would be gone. Just fucking let it happen. Let it pour over you. Let the chaos reign. Okay.

They're doing it for all these. That's the one element of this movie that I think. Go ahead, Bobby. I could say. That's exactly what I was getting ready to say, but that's why they're them and you're you. You're on the other side of this coin, and they're fighting the invisible war. That's why they're interesting, you're you you're on the other side of this coin and they're fighting the invisible war that's why they're interesting and they made a movie about them is this a

documentary they didn't make a movie about you doing an inverted pod sean that's all i'm saying like maybe he wants to spend some more time on the Amalfi Coast once this is all solved. I don't get the impression there's a lot of vacay for this guy. Sure, but he doesn't know that yet is the other thing. That's true. He doesn't know that he's on the inverted loop until after he's already stopped. Does he? after he's already stopped the, though, I, does he, I mean, what, who knows what, when is an interesting question in almost every scenario,

historical, personal, and otherwise, but certainly here, it's not really clear to me. It seems like he's still learning though. Obviously we learned that he is also deeply informed. And so that's one of the more confusing aspects of this story for sure.

Also, no big deal. He just like nolan just shoots a war movie starting now it's pretty cool i would just like shift genres entirely yeah it's a great point it's a great point so this movie came under a lot of fire for the debicki character being very underwritten as only a mother which is obviously a trope that you hear a lot um not for the debicki character being very underwritten as only a mother which is obviously a trope that you hear a lot um not just about nolan movies but uh female characters and that her motivation is to just purely motherhood yeah what do you guys think of that well she also definitely wants she's in a abusive relationship and definitely feels away about that because she gets i mean feels away about that it's like a really callous way of saying it, but in the scene when they're on the catamarans and John David, the protagonist does not kill Sator and prevents

her from killing Sator. She gets really angry. She's like, I was going to kill him. You took that chance away from me. And it's, and it's not just because of the kid. It's, it's because of her there is also the goya thing and the whole art subplot which we sort of fast-forwarded past because i guess like no one really cares though i was interested in it but i you know i guess plot wise sean also yeah i mean like motivation there's also the that's a that's the case for pattinson is neil is Neil. It makes her motherhood I guess a little bit more compelling

if it's not just this anonymous little boy, but actually this character that we've been through the entire movie with, right? Definitely. I'm not saying necessarily that that is a criticism I agree with, but I have read it quite a bit about the

film. I would say that there's not a criticism i agree with but i have read it quite a bit about the film um i would say that there's not a whole wealth of humanity in any of these humans we don't learn a ton about these people they're they're chess pieces for the nolan storytelling really which is pretty common i find in his films very few of his characters have kind of jumped out to me as real people they're often like vessels for ideas or concepts of dignity or what have you. Right. I mean, the protagonist is literally named the protagonist. Yes. There's not, it's purposeful lack of character development.

I guess. Should he be dinged for that as an interesting question? I used to think yes. And now I think maybe not so much. Yeah, exactly. It's just a style. I also think that like one of the things that's really cool when a

filmmaker builds up a body of work, the way Nolan has is that you can start reading the films as a piece rather than these discrete statements. And so I think Tenet actually benefits from the Nolan filmography and to know what he's kind of interested in and to know the mistakes that he's made in the past or the successes that he's had in the past or obviously the things that he's fascinated by so you can see this movie as an extension of inception or you can see this movie as an extension of interstellar and about like well what are what are what is our greater responsibility for the survival of this earth versus the more earthly pleasures of possibly being a parent or a husband or whatever it's something i think this movie benefits from being read as part of Nolan's filmography rather than being like,

let me try to understand time travel. Yeah, I agree. I think what we're seeing here, it's important to note is obviously two different camps, the pincer action, right? For the temporal pincer movement in which one will be moving forward in time

and one will be moving inverted in time. And so you've got this dual action, this dual siege coming up that is really quite crazy, quite difficult to understand at times. We'll talk through a little bit of it, some significant moments, especially when we get down to that core area

where things get a little bit more confusing. But Aaron Taylor Johnson, just very convincing as a SEAL, once again, after his work in Godzilla, when he did the halo jump through the sky. Remember that shit? That was dope. But he looks so much happier to not have to be like, seal once again after his work in godzilla when he did the halo jump through the sky remember that shit that was dope but he looks so much happier to not have to be like i'm trying to get back to my wife the first time that i saw this movie uh at a drive-in i did see it with my husband and

he chose this moment to go to the bathroom and then came back and was like, what'd I miss? And I was just like, oh. Incredible. I was just like, they made a plan. So there's this pincer movement and it's temporal. I really didn't even have to look up. That would have been amazing if you had come back to the car, Amanda, and you just had like the gas mask on

and you had a red armband. And then another you came up to him. That would have been awesome. Yeah. Do you guys think that you'd get along with your entropy version of yourself? Like, would you be like, what up? Well, I hate myself in all forms,

so probably not. Amanda would be like, great top. Chris, you wouldn't do well because you're not allowed to make physical contact. Right. And you're a big DAP guy. So you just DAP yourself up and then you'd explode. Society beat that out of me, though.

You know what I mean? No, we're good, man. We're good. It's not contact-based. Dudes just started letting me fist bump them. The DAP king is retiring? No, I don't want to. I don't want to.

But I don't think we're going to be really like... I give you DAP consent, bro. Okay, thanks, man. Chris, what about my deep shoulder rubs of you? want to i don't want to but i don't think we're gonna be really like the bringing in consent bro okay thanks man chris what about like my deep shoulder rubs of you once a year where i make you really uncomfortable i are you ever gonna do that again yeah yeah soon come through come to the crib once i get the vax hey if you listen to this pod and you're about two hours in get the vaccine if you haven't something you should consider it'll let you uh dap up chris ryan in the future if you ever see him out there you know why one of my favorite things is when people recognize chris ryan oh my god amanda is that not the best it's it's really fun and there are like certain parts

of los angeles where you can go where like chris is elvis and it's like they're just like three block stretches where they're just populated by you know friendly men in their early 40s in shore jackets the cr heads and they're so happy to see chris and he's so nice also it's like he's always like just hey man thanks so much thanks for listening that's this is what he says that's really really cool, man. Thank you. What am I supposed to say? I know. You do a great job. And if anyone who actually has listened to this ever sees Chris,

don't be embarrassed by this. It's really sweet, and it's very exciting. What he wants is he wants to be held closely and kissed on the cheek. So definitely do that. Just a lot of Apple stores and no tall women inside. Never been a tall woman to stop him in the street ever though. I've never seen it.

It's never happened. It's never happened. It's true. It's siege time. I mean, should we be trying to explain the siege or just letting it pour over us? I hope not because I still can't.

I have to be honest. Like this exercise has not helped me have a fuller understanding of what's going on i feel like i've offered a couple of mind gems no you have but we've done a good job i will say i don't i do not find this movie to be dragging at all no me either time i've seen it i still find like it it to be breathtaking in places i think like top line they gotta go back they gotta get this they gotta get that i'm on it i think honestly sean i, they got to go back. They got to get this. They got to get that. I'm on it.

I think honestly, Sean, I've been trying to think through like some of the points that you've made in terms of, you know, time and space. And then I was like concentrating on trying to understand those. And then I just like miss something else that was happening in the movie,

which speaks to what Chris is saying. It moves. It moves. Yeah. No, that's true. So here we're seeing Debicki setting up her big plan to take out Sator, which is, frankly,

one of the more chilling death scenes coming up that I've seen in recent times. I have a question. Is she supposed to be going in reverse here? And we just can't tell because we're watching it forward? It is. She is inverted.

She's inverted. Yes. The blue team in the war scene is going inverted, right? Correct. The blue team is inverted. The red team is in forward progress. But Bobby, you make a good point about there's no oxygen. Yeah.

She's not like walking backwards. I do think that for 98% of people even paying attention to this movie, it's very unclear who are they fighting and where are they. So is this the nuclear site? Yeah, this is Stalsk 12. Okay. And who is shooting at them?

This is a team that has been hired by Sater to essentially destroy... It's a bombing site, essentially, so that they can bomb the algorithm out of reach for another 200 years. I know that doesn't make any sense. This is what I learned in my research for this film. I'm sorry, I wasn't paying attention

because I was just thinking about yacht showers. Yeah. And people seem like, well, she was using it. But like Europeans in particular just like really like to use that yacht shower as soon as they get out of the ocean as if the salt is just going to like eat them alive. I don't know this. I just don't really feel like it's necessary. I see a lot of paparazzi photos of people using yacht showers, which like it suggests that they're really doing it a lot. And it just seems unnecessary.

The salt water is good for you. One of my life goals is to be on my yacht and photographed by the paparazzi, just looking like absolute shit, you know, just like gut hanging out and just like my hair is a mess. Total gambling addict Affleck. Yeah. Just like,

yeah. You just said earlier in the movie you don't want a boat unless it's a speedboat which I thought was a weird choice. You don't like boats but you want the one that goes really fast and doesn't have high walls. Okay, I'll amend my note. What I want is to be on my best friend's boat looking like

shit being captured by the paparazzi. Like those photos of Nicholson from like 10 or 15 years ago where he's just like a beached whale but he's so happy he's just like crushing a turkey sandwich while some like beautiful 38 year old is hanging on his arm what a lord that's right 38 20 26 I also passed on it Chris and then I was like I'm gonna keep going well he was like 70 at the time so 38 that's a solid he's 30 years younger i know you're right you're right they made a movie about it yeah that movie is called anger management co-starring adam sandler good film okay so they're obviously trying to pull off this raid where they get to the

to the core of this um i don't. They're trying to find the algorithm. The algorithm was essentially going to be buried by this military installation. It was going to be buried so it could be retrieved in the future. Who are they fighting? Sator's guys. They're fighting a team of Sator

mercenaries. Okay. One note is that everyone kind of looks alike. I agree. That's one note I would have given. We don't really see who's shooting at them. You know, we don't see like too many of the enemies. Are they like fighting each other because they came?

I mean, that wouldn't make sense. That would be bad strategy. That would be another note that I have. No, they're not fighting each other they are operating in tandem they need they need each other and you'll see why when we get down to that to the core when they when they get through that cage that there needs to be a blue team and a red team and in one case a blue member and a red member that are the same person right and then I think that for some people

when you watch this final sequence in this this big fight scene this set piece and you don't really see an adversary and you don't really understand who they're fighting against i think that that's when that's when you start to wonder whether or not like what like so what are the consequences of this you know what i mean like what is the enemy is me steak yeah yeah yeah I would I had that experience a little bit I would say because again I just it wasn't clear who's

on what side and kind of what the momentum is but it does cut in with the Sator and Debicki on the boat stakes which I like to me are easier to follow yeah the building stuff here is fucking cool.

That is just unbelievable. That sequence when he's exploding the building. Again, real like how did they do this territory? Yeah, well, wherever they shot this, they were just like, so we can build and then blow up a series of buildings. And Jack Warner was like, green light.

I know just the place. Just outside of Tempe. My third wife lived there. It's kind of interesting to think about this being the last movie that he ever makes with Warner Brothers. I mean, he has been, you know,

he's the new Clint Eastwood, you know, been with the same studio this whole time. And he's been really the tentpole of the studio in many ways. I mean, he's the one who introduced the ability to make these DC movies with his Batman reboot. And now it seems like he might not make a movie at Warner's, which, you know, most people may not ever think twice about what studio a director makes their movies for, but it does matter in his case because he had a lot of freedom. He got to make really weird movies for them. But I feel like we talked about this when this happened. Like, he doesn't have like a lot of options

if he wants to still have straight theatrical releases, right? Universal, I think, is the way to go. I think he'll end up at Universal. That's where I'm going. Yeah? I'm going to Universal. What are you going to make?

I'm going to get back into the Jaws IP. Ooh, exciting. So that'd be Jaws 5? No, I'm going back. It's an origin story for the shark. Oh, cool. Kind of like my octopus friend, but my great white friend.

Would you call it like baby teeth? Yeah, I find this like baby great white and I'm just like, oh, it's like this relationship, but then it turns out it's Jaws. And he eats me. That's how the movie ends. Chris, what's your musical opinion of Baby Shark?

I think I prefer the score to Tenet to Baby Shark. There's this bodyguard, this pants-obsessed bodyguard. So that's one of the few enemies we've seen. This guy is important. That's a mercenary. That was the guy who was asking about the pants, Chris? You really are fixated on pants. I'm an eye for detail. Sorry. Okay. Everybody who

works with me knows this. Detail oriented. No comment. How many pairs of pants do you own, Chris? Me? Yeah. Probably 10. Okay. I like that you knew the answer. All right.

You own 10 pairs of pants? Would you go over or under that for me? For your guess for what I would own? I'm thinking more about how many turkey sandwiches you've eaten in your lifetime. How many tall gals have you encountered? Okay, so you see the red right yes so that's the backpack from the opera house correct it's really hard to speak authoritatively about this this part yes this is where i would say this staging is not quite as clean as some of the other scenes right we've got

a red team here and we're gonna have a blue team down here too i just want to say that a line of dialogue that was just said was my fate was always tied up with radiation so i mean same tbh yeah that's where we all are yeah this is the kind of movie that makes me think like honestly what if we all died any second this is the second time i brought this up but it's just actually make you think that yeah yeah it does oh we're on the we're on the brink of annihilation at any moment do you think when bob eiger calls bob chapek to tell him he's still not retiring this is what he talks about just like bob chapek you're gonna be sealed in a pyramid. It's going to be a secret. So here's a blue task man. Okay. They're going in

to get the... They're going in essentially from the reverse side. So you've got the red team is already down there trying to get in there. And now the blue team is trying to get down there and get in there simultaneously. And that's kind of why they did these dual teams is because they needed the double the manpower from opposite ends so there you see the sunscreen being poured on the ground there

then that's why we see the shower so she can wet the sunscreen on the deck so that when she does what she does get some slide action talking about how he's saving the world to he's ending the world to save it from climate change correct right now yeah big Thanos energy yeah

does Sator have a point I mean does he have a point Amanda I still don't understand how it works. And that's the thing. That's one of your, like I, this makes me think about the world ending right now.

If anything, I feel like the stakes are slightly missing in this. If there are so many different ways that the world could end at any given point that I, I'm not that worried about it. I'm just like, is she going to get off the boat in time? Well,

you know, the protagonist just said each generation looks out for its own survival. Mm-hmm. Which is kind of chilling. So that means

we're not looking out for wax. Okay. Wow. Bob, you okay with that? This also, I mean,

like, just to continue the idea that Nolan returns to these same questions and these same themes again, like, isn't this essentially what Joker asks Batman to decide Continue the idea that Nolan returns to these same questions and these same themes again. Isn't this essentially what Joker asks Batman to decide

when it's like, you can save the people right in front of you, you can save everybody, right? When he has the bombs at the end of Dark Knight? Oh, yeah. And the same thing for Makani going up into space. It's like you're going to miss your,

the lives of your children, but you might save the lives of your children. Amanda, if you could save earth by abandoning your family, would you do it? I'm trying not to be in a position of making those decisions. I'd be quite honest. What a cop out is that?

I'd do it. I'd do it. Well, of course you would, CR. That's why you're the man. Amanda's just copping out on that. The most critical question of our time. Both or none is where I am. I would do it if I could undo the Fultz trade.

Let's go back. We're going to wipe everything clean, including Tatum for Fultz. But does that mean you undo the Colangelo story that we published? Oh, that's true. Jeez. Would you trade that,

one of your greatest moments, to get Fultz back? To get Tatum instead of Fultz? Yeah, to get the Fultz trade back. But I just don't understand how they're actually ending the world, but the future world can exist because they've created a mechanism

of going back and forth between the two. I actually don't understand. It's a very reasonable question. That would be like multiple realities, right? And that they're just destroying the reality that did lead to their own doom, right? I think that's... Sure, but if you can do that, then let's just go live in the other reality

and let this one play out. And we don't have to go to all this trouble. I think that's the main tension that's missing is I just don't understand how this algorithm ends all of it. Like, what are they stopping from happening? At least in Mission Impossible, I know that they're stopping the super bomb from exploding. And these crates, the shipping containers that they have here,

is that just for transportation of dudes? Those are just full of NFTs. And tall women. There's a lot of tall women in there too. As someone who identifies as a tall woman as opposed to a short woman, I really am disappointed by the way that you have all treated tall women on this podcast.

They're not treating them like anything. It's not a joke. Beautiful, wonderful creatures. Yeah, that's true. I mean, they're objects of lust for Chris. Imagining what could have been with all those. I don't think Amy Adams is that tall to bring it full circle.

That's a good point. What's she about five, six, that tall enough, Chris. Okay. So there's someone shooting someone else. Somebody's trying to pull the cord here.

I think if he pulls the cord, it means that the bomb explodes and then it gets buried. And since he just got pushed down that conveniently located barrel that leads to hell, why is that there? I don't know. Here we go.

It's go time. She's coming back. These guys are all wearing red too. I don't really know. We can keep pointing this out. I don't know what it means. Oh, topless Branna all right

if you were to be murdered by your spouse would you want silencer or no silencer she's shooting him with a flare gun though is that even a silencer i don't know is it no it's a silencer it's a silencer yeah it is because earlier the the the closed captioning indicated that it was there are silenced gunshots so um love the idea of all that unshmeared suntan lotion you just hate to see it on any human body, especially on that torso of Brana. It's not ideal.

Now he knows who she is. She's got the scar. Here we go. A little slippity slide. So there's... Good. Well, she technically... She kills him too soon,

according to the instructions, right? Right. Before they secure the algorithm. So theoretically, according to what was explained to us, the algorithm should be going off, but it doesn't. Correct. I mean, eight seconds before the explosion. So is the idea that he's still barely alive right now?

I mean, he was breathing as he was like sunscreen pushed off the deck. So I think you're probably right, Chris. You took a real Greg Louganis hit on the way down though. Yeah, true. Guys, remember Greg Louganis? Remember when we were just like diving? Who was like that? This is something that you talk about

because you were a great diver, but no one else cared. Were you a diver, Chris, but no one else cared. Were you a diver, Chris, as well as a swimmer? Off of cliffs. I found high dives intimidating. Right, that's right. I forgot. I'm so sorry.

I dove off of cliffs in Little Compton, Rhode Island. Great spot. So they made it out of the thing. They removed the algorithm before the explosion went off. And now they're getting free. Look, he dragged them out. You guys been tubing recently? Like YouTubing?

No. Like watching vlogs? I know that's what you do all the time. I'm not like on a boat. I went tubing two summers ago in Lake Tahoe. Got very summery. Really hard. Yeah. do all the time i met like on a boat i went to being uh two summers ago in lake tahoe got very really hard yeah it's hard to hard it's hard to be chill like that just like let it let it flow yeah yeah she seems to have time traveled without being in reverse which is the very confusing part because she's the only person who's done that in the film so far but speaking of greg laganis that was a beautiful dive gorgeous great form

i don't have an answer someone out there has an answer for that bobby but you make a good point i can't don't tweet it at me the tenant mentions when this goes up of people being like how could you not mention this theorem that has been proven at the university of oxford at ak dobbins on twitter.com that's where to send all that if you want amanda's number to text her directly just hit me up hit us up dm me and chris we'll send that along get her address going maybe we'll get amanda a po box you could start sending her gifts yeah i don't open my regular mailman. Don't send it to the mailbox. I'll never get it. Here we go. This is very beautiful.

Yeah. Red team. Red team. Red team? He's now the red team, but he was blue team earlier. Is he blue or is he red? He's blue. Yeah.

Which means that the red team that was killed down there was Pattinson. It was inverted Pattinson who was helping him. Oh, I didn't even know that inverted Pattinson

was down there. The only reason he was able to survive is because inverted Pattinson was down there helping him. Or he might have not, they might have been inverted. It might have been reversed.

And this is when the homies break up the bag, right? So that they can spread it around. I would just love to know what the description of the physical algorithm looked like in the screenplay. Just like, no, it's how do we think we got to, you know, this erector set of whatever. It's not the most elegant piece of machinery.

That's for sure. It's one of those things where like, you don't want to see the MacGuffin. And for whatever reason, they showed us the MacGuffin here. That was an error, I think. Yeah, if they just had USB drives, I would have been like, fine. You know what I mean? Sort of resembles the aluminum lumber that Chris was swinging in Little League. That's right. My 32-inch removal sluggler. Yeah. Boy Wonder. Wonder Boy. Wonder Boy.

Wonder Boy. Wonder Boy. They called me Boy Wonder. That's right. Who did? The tall girls? They were all taller than me back then, you know? Back then?

Yeah. When I was in sixth grade. Was there ever a gross part moment where it worked out for you? Not really. It was more of a slow burn to get to 5'7". This is an important part of the film, guys. Perhaps we'll talk over this.

Well, this is about friendship and so is me knowing about Chris Grossbert. Here's obviously where we learn that Mila has known where we've been going the whole time. Yeah.

Because he was trained by the protagonist. These dudes genuinely seem to like each other. Yeah. People wanted them to kiss at the end of this. Did you? Did I? Yeah, you and Amanda. I'm indifferent to them kissing.

I'm okay with them being friends. I think this is a nice movie about what friends can do when they team up to stop a psycho villain from a plan that doesn't totally make sense. It's the story of the movie drafts. It's you and me. And so far we've failed. Because I think inverted Neil or whatever part you're playing doesn't really make it to the algorithm in time, but maybe next time. It's me, the Andre Sador of all drafts. Yeah.

Can't be beat even when I'm killed. You should do it. You should do the next draft topless wearing slides. I look a lot more similar to him than I'd like, if I'm being honest. How fucking charming is Pattinson in this scene? Like, it's off the charts.

It's really, really special. And I'm just glad we have it. I kind of wish he was more of this guy throughout the movie. This exact scene. Dave, JDW or Pattinson? Pattinson. Well,

he can't give away, you know, his cards. We get up to some stuff. That's the slogan of this fucking podcast. Tenet too. What would you 2 what would you what would you do

if no one was like I've given a lot of thought to my next project I've listened to people I've thought about I've thought about World War 2 some more and I'm making

fucking Tenet 2 so you guys can all eat shit if you didn't understand the first one and we're going again that would require making this

with Warner Brothers do you think because Warner Brothers owns the Tenet IP? They certainly do. Okay. Unless he's arranged some sort of deal where he gets it back like Tarantino gets Once Upon a Time back in 10 years. Bobby, Outlook not

good for you. Because of Tenet 2? No, because you're Priya and things are about to be bad. Oh, right, right, right. See, I already forgot that I was Priya and trying to understand how they're not wearing masks half the time.

You gave me your word. I don't think I'm ruthless enough to be Priya, guys. You're young yet, my friend. Who's Michael Caine? Bill. Yeah. who's Michael Caine Bill yeah so obviously I think there's some implication here that he this is where the protagonist takes a look at

at at Neal and Elizabeth Debicki young Neal and maybe sees the recruitment future for him at this moment. And this is like the beginning of Tenet as much as it is the end of Tenet. Right. The Tenet operation.

Mission accomplished. Well, I just, the age thing is difficult because the way that they've explained it is that you're always starting, you're inverting from a certain point. And so, I mean, I guess if this is like a different universe and he's gone back and inverted

at a different time, it's definitely Neil. Okay. Why? Cause it's just like, it's his personal motivation to save them is because his boy he was crying when he saw neil the last time and neil was like i'm dead but this is the beginning of our friendship and he's going back to his childhood he's

definitely neil i'm definitely convinced now the fact that it cuts straight from that speech and that conversation on the war battlefield to that last scene and him staring at them walking off supports the theory very strongly. The real power to change the world is not the relationship between a mother and a son, but it's two dudes being boys. That's what powers this whole universe. Except in the case of you and all of your sons,

the CR heads. That's the only time when it's about father and son. Amanda, what are the Amanda heads called? People who aren't online? No, in the group meetings you've been having indoors at YMCAs for the last year. That'd be amazing, right? I actually started attending meetings with other people

during the pandemic for the first time in my life. The Neil thing, I just need someone to explain it to me further. One thing I haven't noticed before in my other viewings of this film is that it ends with a young thug song. It's Travis Scott, Chris. It's Travis Scott. Jesus Christ. Okay.

Is that any less incongruous with what we just saw? It's Travis Scott, Chris. It's Travis Scott. Jesus Christ. Okay. Is that any less incongruous with what we just saw? It's not. So Travis Scott exists in this world? That's a very good question. Yes. Isn't there like a letter? Didn't Christopher Nolan write Travis Scott a letter? He did, right?

Yeah. And then he wrote about, I mean, didn't Christopher Nolan write Travis Scott a letter? He did, right? Yeah. And then he wrote about, I mean, Christopher Nolan talking about what the Travis Scott song reveals about the power of Tenet is the best content of 2020, in my opinion. So, okay. Travis Scott tweeted on September 24th, 2020,

a message from Nolan. And it's a photo of a marble notebook, a page of a marble notebook. And here's what it says written in pencil, not on the lines. It says, Travis, love the video, shot on film no less.

I can't wait to hear it on the IMAX speakers and see those sheep stampede across the giant screen as part of a Travis Tennant Travis sandwich. Great work, Chris. Did I write that? It's possible that Chris Ryan wrote that letter. It's definitely possible.

I don't even know what to say about that. Chris, you love Travis Scott, even though you think he's Young Thug. I'm more into that early stuff Al Farrow

you know the mixtapes sure Rodeo? yeah yeah well what did we learn? yeah I was just gonna say

Amanda coming out on the other side of this you've been through it three times you feel you actually seem you look like significantly more confused like the most confused

I've seen you you were staring into the middle distance yeah slack jawed what just happened i've never seen you like this you're usually ready to pounce i was thinking i was literally i was like trying to understand the neil theory that's the thing i did i'm dead serious i will just stare off in his face when i'm really concentrating so i was was just trying to think through. Okay, so at the end, he gives her a number and he's like, if you ever have any trouble,

call me and I'll be there. And she leaves him a voicemail. So what we're seeing is like 20 years earlier than the rest of the movie. Yep.

But because she can travel back in time and he can travel back in time. But Priya can't. But Priya can't? Or can she? That's what I'm trying to understand is how they get from the one time to the other, all of them simultaneously. We had two hours and 30 minutes to figure this out and we did not get there.

I'm just saying it's a vibe. I know, but you guys were just so certain about it's Neil. And I'm like, okay, well, I missed something. So now I got to sit here and think real hard until I understand it. This sounds like a great night for you. You can just sit quietly in your home just thinking. You asked me. You were like,

why do you look so confused? And then I answered. Maybe you don't want to ask me questions anymore. No, it's not that. I think I just was gobsmacked by how gobsmacked you looked. Yeah, it was a gobsmacked daisy chain. Everybody was just like, what's happening? I'm trying to understand. Well, I've got

some... Well, we will share your phone number we'll let people reach out to you that's one way to get to some answers and yeah we'll just make sure maybe we'll do like a gawker stalker for Amanda Amanda's a Trader Joe's let her know what you think of a tenant

there's special thanks to Kip thorne the uh nuclear physicist who's been helping christopher nolan tell these completely baffling stories this picture has been produced from the italian tax credit that's what you want to see on amanda's tombstone that's absolutely true uh this podcast came together thanks to the work of Bobby Wagner thank you thank you Roberto we should have got Kip he would have been more helpful than me I think thank you for listening to this watch along pod next week on the big picture Amanda and I will welcome back a pal to the podcast and a pal of Chris Ryan's in the watch as well the great Sam S mail that's right Sam's got a lot

of feelings about movies like tenant and the future of Chris Ryan's in the watch as well, the great Sam Esmail. That's right. Sam's got a lot of feelings about movies like Tenet and the future of the movie-going experience. Chris, Amanda, we're just getting started. Should we start from the beginning? Sure. If you understand how, let me know. Let's run it back. Thank you for listening to The Big Picture

and thanks for turning The Big Picture on for the first time. Bye. Hello.