The Big Picture - The Tom Cruise Hall of Fame

Episode Date: May 24, 2022

It’s a whole darn week of Tom Cruise on The Big Picture, because Cruise is returning to the big screen after four long years with ‘Top Gun: Maverick.’ To celebrate, Chris Ryan joins Sean and Amanda to choose 10 key films and construct the Tom Cruise Hall of Fame. Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guest: Chris Ryan Producer: Bobby Wagner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up, guys? Rachel Lindsay here, and I am teaming up with your favorite Ringer podcasters to deliver the Bravo drama and news that you've been craving on Morally Corrupt. It's the show about all things Bravo, from The Housewives to Summer House and everything in between. We'll be mentioning it all every week. Check it out on Spotify and TheRinger.com. I'm Sean Fennessy. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about Tom Cruise. It's a whole darn week of Cruise on The Big Picture this week because Cruise returns to the big screen after four long years

with Top Gun Maverick to celebrate CR is here and he is going to help us construct the Tom Cruise Hall of Fame. Hey, Chris. You cut these guys loose! We are in person.

The Triangle of Sadness is together for the first time in years recording a podcast. Oh my God, that's true. We've seen each other in intervening years, but we haven't recorded a podcast. Oh my god, that's true. We've seen each other in intervening years,

but we haven't recorded a podcast together in person. This should be much more like Castaway, Tom Hanks, and Helen Hunt. You know, I want to create that energy. You guys excited to talk about Tom Cruise? Always. Yes. Doesn't it feel like we're always talking about Tom Cruise in one way or another? Yes, and yet it's been a long time since he had a movie. We actually have not had an opportunity to do very many Tom Cruise episodes of this show because I think we got

one Mission Impossible movie in 2018. Before that, we didn't have a big picture. So, interesting. It'll be fun for us. Before we get there, though,

I'd like to talk about the results of the 1992 movie draft. Is this like a, are you reading from a prepared statement? No, no, I don't. There's no PR involved here.

There's no crisis management because I emerged victorious once again, back on top. And, you know, you might think I would gloat about my victory, right? You'd expect that from me. What I'm going to do

is extend an olive branch, especially to the CR heads. What I want to say is I see you and I appreciate you and I thank you for your graciousness in the face of defeat all the way downtown and you're doing this strategizing trying to get the CR heads who

I have been informed have demonstrated some alliances with the Dobmob is that correct I think so yeah and so you're trying to isolate me and undermine that alliance. And we're just not that stupid. We're not going to let it happen. This is really funny, too, because this is like after a really like a bloodbath campaign in the primary when the guy turns around is just like, I will be a Republican for all, though. It's just like, no, you're not. Yeah. This is Mayor Pete throwing his weight behind Biden.

It's like we have to close ranks. Who's who here? You're Biden? Sleepy Sean? Perhaps, perhaps. No, I just want to say thank you to all the voters. You know, we got the system right. You know, we got the voting machines under control.

I feel like after when you opened up the doors, right? It was just like we threw open the doors to democracy and we had maybe one of the first true fair votes in the previous draft. Yeah. When we had the Google Doc vote. The first fair vote. Yeah.

And we had a big field, a big, a huge field of candidates to choose from. And then you saw that and you didn't like the way democracy looked. Yeah. You know, so you redistricted. You've been studying Mark Meadows' playbook, I see. No, I just think order has been restored and i'm grateful for that and i'm grateful to both of you for participating in 92 we've got some exciting movie drafts coming this summer which oh we do i will be telling you about soon oh i thought you were gonna do like a live reveal

like the lottery deal or whatever no nba i have some good ideas we've some people have been reaching out saying they want to participate in the movie draft. So the world is expanding at the big picture. But I don't know if it can get bigger than Cruise. How do we talk about Cruise? Do we have to do biography? Do we have to define what makes him special? What's the best way to enter into a long conversation about

the movie star of the last 40 years? I think a little bit of biography is useful only because of the way it shows up again and again and again in the movies. And the Tom Cruise project, I mean, he is the movie star, right? He is the movie star of our lifetimes. He's the last samurai.

Yeah, okay. I mean, Risky Business came out a year before I was born, a year after Sean was born. Chris, you know, you were Business came out a year before I was born. A year after Sean was born. Chris, you know, you were just hanging out with Taps, I guess. That's right. You were in military school, actually, when that was released. Yeah. And so the construction of his career and also his persona informs the movies, informs how we understand him.

That is, like, ultimately his project. And so I think we definitely have to do some off screen and then some I mean we have to talk his dad about his dad a little bit but that's it but I think beyond that the biography is sort of intertwined in the career wouldn't you say and it's obviously really on front street it's not like anybody's just like who's he dated you know and how did those relationships go uh i have like my opening notes of like what i wanted to say about him are basically like sam elliott's speech from the big lebowski where it's just like sometimes there's a man and it's just

like i don't really know like it's kind of hard to wrap your arms around the eiffel tower and i'm not even saying that tom cruise doesn't make bad movies or that he doesn't make some questionable choices, but it's just almost impossible to just sum up what he's done. The thing that I kind of was really curious to talk to you guys about, and we can get to it at whatever point, but the current events element of

this. So we're recording this. Top Gun Mavericks coming out on the 27th. The trailer for Mission Impossible 7. What's that one called? Dead Reckoning Part 1. Just dropped Sunday, I think. And I was just thinking about Tom Cruise bringing movies back to movie theaters.

He's going to have two, probably three back-to-back blockbusters in theaters as streaming quakes. And it's like, did this guy win? Was this guy sitting behind the Resolute desk and he was just like, I'm never going to get on your laptop. I'm just not going to do it. You know, I've been thinking about this a lot because he was celebrated at Cannes and received a surprise honorary Palme d'Or, which is something they made up just for Tom Cruise, I think.

I'll give it to Amanda when she finally goes that's at the end of this podcast recording you also be receiving the Palme d'Or congratulations

thank you and during that those conversations he talked a lot about how he never was willing to let Top Gun Maverick go to a streamer there were a lot of

companies that wanted to sink its teeth into Top Gun during that period especially I mean remember the bleak days of April 2020 sure I was begging god damn it There were a lot of companies that wanted to sink its teeth into Top Gun during that period. Especially, I mean, remember the bleak days of April 2020. Sure, I was begging. God damn it. And he resisted the whole time.

He's, of course, a producer on this project. It's so intertwined with this persona that Amanda is talking about. And he never would have allowed it. And remember, he attended a screening of Tenet while wearing a mask and celebrating that film. And he has been at the forefront. But when did that start? When did him being like, I'm Dr. Movie Theater, and everyone has to only go to movie theaters? Because I think he's been vocal about this for probably the last 10 years or so. But almost every movie he's made in the last 30 years is kind of defined by its theatricality.

It's over the topness. It's kind of, it's experiential importance. And I was wondering if like that is also rooted in some of that personal mythology that we're hinting towards, like was kind of being the brightest star in the solar system, always what he was after and always be, you know, very rarely taking on supporting parts and always believing in the power of Hollywood in a very kind of classical way. Like, do you think that that's intertwined with how he designed himself as a movie star? Yes. And I think it's his latest design. I mean, he has evolved in the types of movies that he does in the type of celebrity that he is. And he has a very savvy ability with some notable exceptions, about a 10-year stretch, to position himself in a way of being the protector and, you know, make sure that, like, you know, whatever invades it can't tear it down.

Like, I will hold it up with my bare hands. You know, I'm reminded of the wonderful video he made with Christopher McQuarrie about how to design your at-home movie settings to turn off motions moving. That's right. If you've never seen that, I don't think that's going to go in the Hall of Fame, but it's a personal Hall of Fame moment. We should just get a little bit of that, Bobby, from that video, just a little bit of that audio.

Yeah. To that end, we'd like a moment of your time to talk to you about video interpolation. Video interpolation, or motion smoothing, is a digital effect on most high-definition televisions and is intended to reduce motion blur in sporting events and other high-definition programming. The unfortunate side effect is that it makes most movies look like they were shot on high-speed video rather than film. This is sometimes referred to as the soap opera effect.

So he found himself in a moment where he has this movie that is certainly best suited to theaters. Chris, have you seen the new movie? I haven't. We're not going to talk about it, but I'm just going to say, like, hell yeah to that, to echo Sean. career and positioning him as this kind of like last great holdout and almost a throwback to an era when Tom Cruise was the biggest guy opening movies in movie you know movie theaters around the world that he knows that and puts himself in that position that's part of what makes him Tom Cruise he really is the last person he's like Metallica not going to iTunes. Almost every one of his contemporary movie stars has moved to either streaming television

series or to movies going straight onto VOD. Tom Hanks, Denzel Washington, Julia Roberts all have since gone to little things going up day and date. Tom Hanks basically makes movies for Apple now. Leo just made Don't Look Up. Julia Roberts is in prestige you know, little things going up day and date, or Tom Hanks basically makes movies for Apple now,

or Leo just made Don't Look Up. Julia Roberts is like in prestige TV stuff, you know? So it's like he is the last of the Mohicans in that regard. Also, I think that he threw himself into the last chapter, this most recent chapter of movie history with gusto. Like he was like, this is the kind of crisis that a Tom Cruise character throws himself into. And I am going to be the person who is not making a two-hander handheld movie in a safe environment. I'm going to make the most Mission Impossible, Mission Impossible movie across Europe in the throes of a pandemic. And then I think very conveniently have this audio leaked that makes him sound like basically the guardian of the galaxy of movie

making where he's just like if this movie fails the industry will give up you know if we can't make this movie they will just start making stuff for netflix now and i whether that was true or not but that was that whole like leaked audio of him flipping out at the crew members for not adhering to COVID protocols. And in retrospect, it just seems like he put all of his money on it coming up red at the roulette table, and he fucking won. It seems like it. We shall see. Top Gun Maverick is an interesting object of return because it's a movie that tracks old. It's not a movie that means a lot to anybody under 30. Except for Bobby. Except for beloved Bobby, who of course always has good taste when it comes to old people stuff. I would counter that by saying that there are a lot of blockbuster movie fans or general casual movie fans who maybe don't always feel served by the comic book industrial complex who are like, finally, I will go back to a movie theater and enjoy myself for two hours.

Yeah. And Mission Impossible has occupied a similar space over the years, especially for the three of us. You know, Amanda, you mentioned kind of his backstory, his origin. Born Thomas Cruise, Mappether IV. He's born almost 60 years ago. He turns 60 in six weeks, July 3rd, 1962,

which also makes him right at the tail end of the Baby Boomers. And in fact, he feels like the last hero of the Baby Boomers. And in some ways, feels like the last hero of the Baby Boomers. And in some ways, the villain. You know, he's obviously done a lot of things that are not great over the years. Born in Syracuse, New York. Effectively raised by his mother with his sisters.

Yes. And so the absent father figure that you're alluding to, Amanda, is an echoing theme of so many of the stories that he has wanted to tell in the early stages of his career as kind of like the boy on his own, which is a recurring theme. And then as soon as he gets to fatherhood age, a lot of the time he is the protector. You know, he is the person who has to fix the mess,

clean up, make sure no one gets hurt. And it's not that hard to psychologize him throughout his movie career, even though he's like obviously a crowd pleaser kind of by nature. A lot of the films that he picks even the more challenging movies are incredibly entertaining but i mean from magnolia to risky business and everywhere in between like these are recurrent themes um i don't know do you think that that has shifted over time a little bit it has i mean certainly whether he's going from the son to the father figure has evolved with his age, but also a little bit to what Chris was saying and a little bit to this idea of has he gotten lucky or has this all been strategic? from those character roles that certainly define at least like the late 80s early 90s even jerry

mcguire to an extent because i think there was a change in how he was perceived in the public and even what being quote tom cruise in a movie meant to people and how the audience would respond to him and so he can't do the relatable son role anymore. And so he moved to action movies. He moved to, I'm just going to do as many crazy death defying stunts as possible. And rebrand myself as like, can you believe this guy is doing this? Like I just jumped out of a plane. I landed a helicopter in someone's backyard.

You know, I am doing all my motorcycle. Like is Tom Cruise actually going to die filming a movie um as a way to distract perhaps from some other things that are going on and of course i i think he maybe did get a little bit lucky and like those are the only movies left in theaters um i don't know that he would work very well in a streaming character exploration as Julia Roberts and Tom Hanks and all of movies that he's making and even switched his character to a degree he definitely has invented this new dad of the world persona slash you know messiah gonna fix everything persona which is like ethan hunt just like does no wrong and is a force for for peace and world saving wherever he goes and like tom cruise has always been that person but now there's nothing complicated about it he's just like you

know the the father figure i'll save everything yeah there's no not a lot of moral gray with any of the characters he picks and like hard charging integrity i feel like is the definition of a lot of the characters he's played in the last 20 years. What changes have you seen over 40 years? Well, so there's a 20 year run where I think he is in like the center of movies where he is both the biggest star in the world, but he's also working with some of the best directors and he seems to have basically flawless taste from 86 to 05. He's just like the number one go-to. He's in Kubrick movies and Scorsese movies and Spielberg movies and Cameron Crowe movies.

And you're like, this guy just has it all figured out. And I think one of his pieces of genius over the entirety of his career has been his ability to weather sometimes setbacks, sometimes career setbacks, sometimes maybe, I don't know, people deciding they'd rather not work with him anymore or whatever

and also the changing taste of the movie going public and the changing you know movements within like movie going as a pursuit

and he is just the same like when I see him in Mission Impossible 7 trailer it just feels like seeing the guy from

Days of Thunder again you know what I mean like there is something like completely timeless think about how he's like he's really cool but he's not very fashionable right like it's never like there's no pictures of tom cruise and you're like what the fucking outfit is that yeah i can't believe he's wearing he's got that wig you know it's it's really there's very rarely do you have like anything like that and by that same token you

guys are talking about his move into like dad bod zone or not dad bod, but like, you know, his father, I've seen Jack Reacher, protective kind of thing. There is a dad bod, but like,

I don't necessarily think that he's like entering into like a late period, Paul Newman phase where he's like willing to sort of step back and bring along the Redfords and the Cruises of the world. And when's the last time there's been like a co-star in a mission, in any Tom Cruise movie that threatened to steal the movie from Tom Cruise? It hasn't happened in a long time. I actually want that to be the last part of our conversation, which is what does 60 to 80 look like for Tom Cruise? Because it's really fascinating. And some great movie stars have done it expertly. You mentioned Paul Newman, I would argue, probably the best of all time

in terms of what the final quarter of his career looks like. But many, it goes very poorly for. And the way that Cruise is navigating his career, which is very physical right now, that could present some challenges. Let's go back to the very beginning. When did you first see Cruise? I think it might actually have been a few good men.

And I'm not just saying that to be Amanda. But I was thinking back on this. I probably saw clips from Risky Business. Like, I saw the Risky Business dance before I saw A Few Good Men. I think I probably saw clips from Rain Man. Or I, like, saw him on Entertainment Tonight. Right? Because he was such a central movie star.

And so if you were the type of, of like nerdy kid who is interested in these movies you could become aware of him as a person even before you saw the like the kind of grown-up movies you know even Top Gun maybe it was Top Gun not yeah on cable or maybe I was shown it because I learned this week and my dad loves Top Gun, which I didn't remember. But early and in conversation with his persona from the very beginning. Sierra, what about you? I mean, Top Gun is probably the first movie that I saw of his in a movie theater. And then very quickly, Risky Business, Outsiders, All the Right Moves, and Taps were all in circulation and on video so I remember

being kind of aware of like this guy is now a megastar that's in my life and like the very you know like several years later or one year later you're essentially like he's putting in two great movies per year for like a 10-year run there but there was that like kind of, it was like getting a guy drafted on your football team and then going back and watching all his like college highlights kind of, you know what I mean? Like you may not have watched all the college games in person,

but you all of a sudden become like the world's biggest Zach Wilson expert in your case. And also like obviously investing a lot in Zach Wilson's mom's teachings, I think also to prepare yourself for the- No, that's your agents that are doing that, not mine. I think Zach Wilson and Tom Cruise are apt comparisons because Zach is about to embark on a legendary run,

hopefully 40 years of greatness for the New York Jets. Okay. Thank you for throwing that in at the end. He's a New York Jets player. Congratulations. I think Top Gun's probably the first time I saw him too. We'll talk about this in a couple of days, but I was never a big Top Gun person.

That was not the thing that opened him up to me. Like you were when you were 10? When I was a kid, yeah. It actually was not really a movie for me, which makes Maverick all the more exciting, frankly. Interesting. Yeah. I feel like I've been meeting a couple. Maybe it's because Andy hadn't seen Top Gun before.

I had seen it. You just don't love cinema you know i don't that you're the first person to ever say that images and sound moving together no matter how hard you try there will always be a downer out there do you really watch enough movies uh perhaps not enough if i can't truly appreciate top gun i didn't dislike it i just i didn't i know a lot of people have like cling to it. They have a huge emotional relationship to it. And I just didn't, I honestly probably had a bigger emotional relationship to Legend, which I'm not saying is a better movie, but when I was seven, Tim Curry dressed as a giant devil and a fantasy film, that was my speed. That was where I was at

at that time in my life. You know, I wasn't on an aircraft carrier like Chris, you know, in his fourth year of enlistment. What do you like about him? What do you love about him? This is the hard part. This is the part where you're just like, uh. He's like an element. So it's like, what do I like about Breeze?

What do you like about Curbin? Sun? Yeah, right. Let's put it this way i feel like he's as committed to being an entertaining movie star and thinks about it as deeply as daniel day lewis thinks about being an actor and it's not to say that tom cruise doesn't think about being an actor but i think that his project has been to like basically like develop and iterate on this hero archetype over the course of the last 40 years.

And he does it in such a smart, full-throated, absolute committed way that it kind of crystallizes the relationship that you have with the perfect movie star in your head. Because you're just basically looking for someone who's just enough relatable that you can see yourself in them, but does just enough extraordinary shit that you could never see yourself doing. And that's the escapism. That's the entertaining part.

And I think that just he captures that. You know, he's able to put on a Yankees hat and be like, I'm a guy. I'm just a guy. And then he can save the world. When you were a young girl, were you in love with Tom Cruise? Oh, yeah. He's so, so handsome for that first decade.

Because he's still handsome now, I guess, relatively speaking. But, you know, I came to movies and to understanding charisma and star power pretty much through Tom Cruise. Like, as Chris said, he's an element. He's in, like, the firmament of movie stars. So yes, I thought that his energy and that just pulsating screen presence was very attractive. I mean, he was also just like a very beautiful 20 and 30 something guy. And then I think for me, me it is the energy which I would mostly define as enthusiasm but that makes it sound a little too corny even though presence yeah Tom Cruise can be corny and but in a way I find really endearing but that this is a guy who is just going for it

gonna do everything whether it is jump out of an airplane or whether it is just like scream at Jack Nicholson until he breaks or whether it is just like make a million like blinking faces at Renee Zellweger until she falls in love with him. He's just going for it. And he's committed to his career. He's committed to these big types of movies and he is also just defined by like the quote types of movies they don't make anymore that we all love and that we talk about all of the time he's just kind of inextricable so i guess he just taught me what movies are probably or defined what 80s 90s the era that we all love. Okay.

This is somewhat inextricable and a little bit interesting to discuss with him, but is Tom Cruise a great actor or is he just a great movie star? Because, and I'll premise this upon awards. He's obviously, like we're saying,

he's really the signature movie star over this vast period of time. You might say Leo's had a better last 20 years. You might say Julia Roberts was more powerful this vast period of time you might say Leo's had a better last 20 years you might say Julia Roberts was more powerful in the 90s

you might say Denzel's body work is more impressive but pure movie stardom only three Academy Award nominations in this time despite working with those great filmmakers

it's Born on the Fourth of July nominated in 1990 Jerry Maguire nominated in 1997 and Magnolia nominated 2000 Best Supporting

he's won a bunch of Golden Globes, but they don't mean a whole lot, and he returned them anyway, when the Golden Globes were outed as being a fraudulent organization. What a legend. I'm just mailing them back. I'm sorry. That was very funny.

Has he ever been in a Best Picture winner that he just didn't get nominated or win for? I don't think. Well, Rain Man. Rain Man is the, that's the crisis point. You know, there's that long conversation we've actually had on a podcast about like, is Cruise actually better than Dustin Hoffman in Rain Man? You can make that case that the movie falls apart without him.

But beyond that. I mean, A Few Good Men was nominated. Right. And he was not. Yeah, no. I mean, especially in the last 10 years he's primarily made franchise and action movies um so no so on the one hand I feel like everyone agrees that when he takes on a Magnolia he has the stuff right and if he wanted to have a more character

based kind of career he could have done it and maybe his beauty would have held him him back a little bit. But I think another elephant in the room is Brad Pitt and the way that Brad Pitt has chosen to navigate his career in the last 20 years versus someone like Tom Cruise. He often is looking to negate what is kind of like a planetary charm. Yeah, de-beautify himself in many ways. And Tom Cruise, I thought that was such an insightful point that he is always wearing either a blue suit or a leather jacket. And you can look at photos of him from 1987 or photos of him from two weeks ago. And he's kind of, he's utterly himself. He doesn't transform unless he really transforms like in Tropic Thunder or something. Is he a good actor? I just don't think he challenges himself in the way that he used to. So it's hard for me to even know, you know what I mean? Like, it's like, it's not like he, it's,

it's not even that I only think of Born on the Fourth of July and Brain Man and Magnolia as his like great performances. I would actually say I like quite a few of them more than some of those movies, but I just don't think that he's shown much of an interest in playing any other part than Tom Cruise in the last 20 years, certainly. He's a big actor. He offers you a lot of acting for your buck, you know, which I think we're trained to receive as not always the best, you know, that like more is not always better.

It's funny. He gets put in those conversations. You posted this weekend on Twitter, which stopped posting on the weekend. It's the only time when I have to think about anything. He loves to post. It's really the only time I can post now. You posted a 10-year run. I think you did 96 to 2006, right?

2005, yeah. 2005. But you could also have done 86 to 96. Yes. The premise of that was the last one where I thought somebody was like really in command of all their power. And you asked, you know, who has come close? And I think like the two most common answers were Leo and Denzel. And Leo and Denzel are certainly have a lot in common career rise with Tom Cruise.

But I think they're both better actors and have built careers slightly differently because they are acting i think denzel is probably the closer comparison because he does like a lot of tony scott movies and you know just go do equalizer too totally but then he also just goes and does shakespeare and yeah he's a like he's a theater actor and i i don't think that tom cruise is a great theater actor i mean i can't even imagine it right he's just he's always doing something. I think the movies where he's, Magnolia is an amazing performance and also an example of someone in Paul Thomas Anderson who like loves Tom Cruise as much as we do, understands what Tom Cruise is good at, puts him in a position to do all of that and also comment on it and play

with the idea of Tom Cruise. And I think Tom Cruise is in on the joke on that. He has maybe more self-awareness than he's given credit for, at least in 1999. Who knows about now? But I don't know if that counts as... Acting is not how I describe it. It's not the same time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, so speaking of self-awareness do you think he knows that about himself that in fact how much of his choices over the last 20 years have been reflective of a desire to maintain relevance which is what i think most people say is going on there where he kind of like looked at the landscape of the business and he was like ethan

hunt is really my ticket to hanging around right or is it that he knows that he he can't do birdman birdman perfect example um that he actually would not thrive in a situation like that i'm not so sure i maybe that's there's a sentimentality i have about him but i look at eyes wide shut and i'm like this is kind of the inverse of the tom cruise persona now you're right that that's another filmmaker who's kind of riffing on his his fame and his kind of bigness, but he's very, very compelling in that movie as somebody who keeps failing and striking out and getting embarrassed and getting cuckolded.

You know, like that's like, he does know how to play those notes. We just have so little evidence of those notes that it's a little, it's hard to make it like a lasting decision on it. I was thinking about a lot of the movies from the last, I was trying to think of like the movies in the last 10 to 15 years, specifically over this sort of run of like mission impossibles, real revival under Bradford and McQuarrie,

especially, which is pretty much taken up all of his time with the exception of the Reacher movies and American made. And what movies have come out over that time period that I think he would have been good in? Like, what do you think if it was like The Post starring Tom Cruise as Ben Bradley? Like, could he have done that? Oh, interesting. In a lot of ways, why not? It's about being really good at a job and solving a crisis. Like,

those are two things that Tom Cruise... Yep, unflappable. Yeah. And, you know, the accent would Cruise... Yep, unflappable. Yeah. And, you know, the accent would have been silly or whatever, but does he look less like Ben Bradley than Tom Hanks does? Like, not really, you know? They both have images of themselves that they're trying to service with their choices. So I was like, I kind of wish there was one or two of those in there.

But it's so funny because I instinctively was like, no, that's not what Tom Cruise does. As soon as you said it, there was those in there. But it's so funny because I instinctively was like, no, that's not what Tom Cruise does. As soon as you said it, there was something in me and I rewatched Eyes Wide Shut last night, which was a great experience. Hadn't seen it in a few years. Fantastic film.

I don't know if I would say that he is good in that. I think that that movie is fantastic and such a huge part of that movie's success in addition to it being a Kubrick film and it looking amazing and being weird as hell and the masks huge part of that movie's success, in addition to it being a Kubrick film, and it looking amazing and being weird as hell and the masks and all of that,

is that it is playing with the idea of Tom Cruise and Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman. And even at the time, we knew we were like, quote, getting a look into their marriage, unquote, were we, who can really say? So he's essential to it, but it's not what I want from tom cruise and and there is a part of the tom cruise project that is being aware of the audience knowing what the audience wants

and being shaped by the expectations and i am a part of it as well but when he's being too reserved when he's not letting that kind of explosive Tom Cruise energy out, which is, again, the whole point of Eyes Wide Shut. I understand what the movie is exploring, but I find myself being like, no, no, no, but you're Tom Cruise. Can you do something now? See, but everything you just said, I think, is literally- You think is why it's good?

No, no, no. Is lit- no, no. It's literally why he has only done what he's been doing for the last 20 years. Because he hears the voice of a young woman who was in love with him. And he's like, I need to stay in that place. I can't change. It's really strange, though. Because to me, what's happened to him over the last 10 years or so is he is treating himself as if he is The Rock.

And not only just because he makes these blockbuster action movies but almost like he doesn't there's a certain point where it's like if you put the rock in a legal thriller it's just going to be tough to believe that this lawyer is not going to at some point punch a hole through the table in front of him right like that his physicality is not going to come into the inevitability of his power. Right. Yeah. Like Tom Cruise could do anything. Like there's no, when you start watching, even in Top Gun,

he's a good pilot. He doesn't jump out of the fucking plane. You know, like that's what's sort of strange about this iteration of him is his conception of himself as this evil Knievel guy who is essentially like defying death for our entertainment where it's like, that was hardly the point up until 15 years ago. He does both though.

So what you just described is Ethan Hunt. Now that's the character of Ethan Hunt. The movie is called Mission Impossible. He has to be in extraordinary circumstances every 20 minutes or the movie doesn't make sense. But Edge of Tomorrow, for example, is kind of like a newfangled Eyes Wide Shut or Magnolia, where it's like the whole point of that character is he keeps dying and he's inept.

And so he does have this self-awareness. But he's the messiah. I mean, he's also the chosen one who's the only one who can get that far. Yeah, sure. Well, along with Rita Vertansky, one of the great movie characters the last 20 years. He gets further and further away from, to me at least, from the self-awareness and the self-exploration. and jumping out a plane is what's working the best or whether that's sort of his post-crisis rehab program and is just you know image rehabilitation program and that's what he's sticking to or frankly being really famous makes everybody's mind go a little weird and some of it

is probably just a response to being Tom Cruise for so long. And I start to see the, I wouldn't call it self-awareness, but like the extreme fame and kind of what happens when you live in that bubble of jumping out of planes and saving the world for so long. I think it becomes some sort of self-perpetuating cycle. There's also the question of whether or not, you know, to go back to one of the earlier points in this conversation, he sees himself as the last movie star and he can't afford to make an $80 million movie.

You know, he could hope against hope if he made a bunch of those movies that one of them would be Captain Phillips and everybody would be like, great movie, man. Yeah. You know, but like if he made seven mid Tom Hanks movies and then it was like, yeah, you know, like we love working with you, but like, let's just put it straight to streaming. Like he seems to really believe that like

every time he goes on camera, it essentially needs to be a $600 million movie or it's a failure. Not to get ahead of ourselves though, but that's what makes American Made by far the strangest choice in his career. Because that's a movie in this period that we're describing in which he cannot lose.

Like if he loses, somehow the idea of movies and movie stardom loses. And he does this weird $60 million, Doug Liman, 1980s, Iran-Contra-CAA cartel airplane movie that looks like shit. Yeah. And it didn't succeed.

And maybe that was like, maybe that was the case closing. Yeah. And it didn't succeed. And maybe that was like, maybe that was the case closing. Yeah. Yeah. It has no public reputation. I don't really know anybody who didn't saw it that aren't people

who would be on a Tom Cruise podcast with me. Like, and that's such an unusual outlier. And the problem is, if you're me and you've seen Narcos, you're like,

I know. Like, you just like that, the plot of that movie is just in Narcos. Right. So it's really, it's narrow casting

to an audience that doesn't need it. Yeah. And he doesn't really do a lot of those. There's not a lot of like, oh, remember that odd choice from him? And I guess on one way, that's interesting career management. And in another way, it's all very predictable. And yet I saw Top Gun Maverick and I was like, it doesn't matter that it's predictable.

It's like, it's so powerful and so well done that sometimes that's all you need, right? Sometimes that's all you need to satisfy it. What's your, Amanda, what's your favorite Tom Cruise performance? A few good men. I mean, it just, and we can talk about it some more, but it's the first one I saw. I think it crystallizes his charisma, his, you know, underdogness, the only guy for the job, but he's got to learn, you know, something about himself. And I mean, I just, I really do feel that Tom Cruise looks very handsome in Navy uniforms. So that's just a theme that I respond to. Chris is in his blues today.

Yeah. That's good. Good, Chris. Thank you. And I watched it again last night before i went to bed and i was like oh i'll just watch 10 minutes you know and then we were getting to the nicholson showdown so then i um of course stayed up for like another hour but that scene of cruz and nicholson just screaming at each other for a while almost was like a baton passing is also really fascinating. And Tom Cruise at that moment is at the precipice of,

is it his, no, it's not his apex mountain, but like maybe it could be. Probably Jerry Maguire. Yeah, that's true. That's right. Because that's Mission Impossible and Jerry Maguire in 96. But you kind of see all of that possibility opening up in A Few Good Men.

And he's still also so likable in that movie, but not full. He still has edge. Yeah. And the edge of Tom Cruise characters kind of goes away as he moves towards Ethan Hunt. So I rewatched that movie last night as well. A Few Good Men? Yeah. And I picked up on something, which is very obvious, but it's sort of like at a certain point it becomes like a Beatles album where you're just like, I can't even really hear it anymore. Yeah, right. And you're like,

wait, did that guitar go backwards? Yeah, exactly. So when he's cross-examining Jessup there's multiple moments where he just starts whispering questions at him. You know, and he's like because that's what you...

You know, like very, very quietly engaging with him. And he's in a courtroom and a jury needs to be able to hear him. And it doesn't matter because it's a movie, right? And so what we need is just a movie moment and intensity. Even though this was a script that was written originally for the stage, you can't whisper on stage. In fact, that is against the law to whisper on stage when you're performing. But Cruise is only about intensifying the movie experience.

Now, maybe that's a note he got from Rob Reiner to whisper it. In all likelihood, he was like, how can I do this the best to make this the most exciting? It's also just one of those genius, genius, genius

scene playing moves where he knows, they obviously know that Nicholson's only going to be in one gear. Nicholson is going to be the hard-charging asshole who thinks he's above the proceedings.

So he's going to be yelling or at least being condescending. And then he will start yelling. So Cruz has to modulate. And he has to be like, I'm a little intimidated by you. I'm nervous that the witnesses haven't shown up. The logbooks, like, do I have the goods? And the way that he goes quiet, loud, quiet, loud. It's like listening to Smells Like Teen Spirit.

You're just like, it makes it so much more powerful when he yells you cut these guys loose because he's been whispering and because he's been so nervous but you realize he's just been priming this guy to stick a knife in him it's beautiful yeah what's your favorite cruise i'm really tempted to say collateral just because it's so atypical because it's the least um it's the most entertaining yet least pleasant character i mean he's pleasant to me but i'm a psychopath like um specifically when he's talking about jazz yeah his takes on on jazz are pretty pretty formative for me i'd say it's like him and stanley crouch uh but i am gonna go just because i feel like we always talk about if you're good men i'm gonna say the firm just because i also like we always talk about Fugue Men, I'm going to say The Firm.

Just because I also think that that is, in a lot of ways, among the best casts he's ever been a part of. And to watch him go and do scenes with Hackman, and do scenes with, we joke, but Wilford Brimley, be with Gene Triplehorn. I just think it's a really excellent ensemble and is in a lot of ways the platonic ideal of an entertaining movie for me. Yeah, it's a real Hollywood movie

that doesn't really have aspirations to anything other than entertainment. Yeah, and it's always his brain in that movie. It isn't a few good men too. He has to run a couple of times in the firm, but I just love that it's just a game of wits. And I think that's, even though it's not

my favorite movie he's ever done, it's one of my favorite performances by him. It's just quintessential, man. It's just like, I remember, like, his association

with that book was just like, boy, this is gonna be a really popular movie. Like, I was a kid, but I was still like, everybody I ever see ever is reading John Grisham. What was your first John Grisham?

I think it was Pelican Brief that I actually read. Yeah, that's a good one. Mine was The Firm, I think at the time of the movie's release. I do not know why I was allowed to watch, to read The Firm at the age of nine years old. I was reading those books then too. Yeah. I don't know why.

My parents had so many of them. I think The Client was my first. I'm tempted to say Jerry Maguire is my favorite. You can't really go wrong with six or seven of them. Yeah. You know? I just think that that's a really interesting blend of comedy, drama, romance, sports movie. That is very, obviously, that's a legendary movie. Unique cocktail movie. We're just talking favorite, not like Apex Mountain. No, no, sports movie that is very, obviously, that's a legendary movie.

Unique cocktail. We're just talking favorite, not like Apex Mountain. No, no, no. Just like the performance. Like, I think I'm like more interested in Ethan Hunt. If there were 10

Jerry Maguire movies, maybe I'd feel differently. But to be like Ethan Hunt in Mission Impossible 1 is a weird individual performance pick. Obviously, A Few Good Men, everything you said

resonates with me. I love it. It's still kind of scintillating to watch. I feel a lot of Aaron Sorkin writing speeches for himself in A Few Good Men as I get older, which is giving me a little bit of an issue. I think that's fair. But the more Aaron Sorkin I consume, the more I realize how hard it is to do it as well as Tom Cruise and

Nicholson are doing it. And it's so electric to get those two doing it together. But to what Chris said, like the rhythm, the choices, the almost making it seem natural. I was really struck last night about a small scene, and it's right before the Where's My Bat, I Think Better With My Bat, where Tom Cruise's character, Caffey, kind of has a plan, and he's turning around, and he's like, okay, sit down. And both, you know, everyone is already sitting down,

and he just pauses for one second, and is like, good, and just keeps going. But there's something about the timing. He doesn't oversell it. He actually doesn't do this work anything. I was like, oh, yeah, you're incredible at this. Yeah. I feel like stage management and persona management is something that, like, I wondered,

does Chris Pratt, has he been handed the handbook of how to do this well? You know, like, when you get to a certain stage where you're the whole show, right? The movie is being made because you're in the movie. you get there there's 10 or 12 things you need to know how to do you need to know what all your angles are you need to know what the definition of your character is you need to know that if you pick a film that means you can't be in the other film that's happening at the same time there's a lot of it's a it's an art form being the the movie star of an era and i'm sure some of it is stuff that he developed, but some of it is stuff that he picked up from the Paul Newman's of the world when appearing in the color of money. Yeah.

You know, he worked with a lot of great directors. He gave him a lot of tips around how to manage these things. That's also as, as this, as this thing starts to die out in the way that it has, like that also dies out with it. Like it doesn't feel special to see Chris Pratt in a movie. And, you know, nothing against Chris Pratt. He's been in plenty of movies I like, but... But he's... Tellingly,

he's in a TV show coming up. Yeah. I mean, that's kind of the thing is, like, being available all the time has its setbacks. And... I have four years

in between movies, and I know it's pandemic-related, largely, but... That's a long time. Yeah. I think it's the longest stretch of his entire career since he started he's typically a lot a lot of two in a year movie years yes which is and and in those 90s runs where they are the two biggest movies of the year or a blockbuster and a critically acclaimed movie he was the master of that yeah Top Gun and Color of Money he And I think he learned that from Spielberg.

Cocktail Rain Man, you know, same year. He really, and obviously, the apex of that is Terry Maguire and Mission Impossible. Should we build the hall?

Yes. Is there anything else you want to say about Cruise before we get into the CV? No, we'll probably get to some of these points when we get into the movies themselves,

I think. Yeah. Well, I was just going to say it has been a weird last 15 years. Yeah, it has. But we can talk about that during the hall of fame yeah okay you want to put like couch jumping in the hall is that what you're saying no well i don't think that that's the the spirit of the hall no as i understand it but you know 2005 was a very weird year there was couch jumping obviously on oprah that was part of the Katie Holmes courtship, I suppose, which eventually

led to their marriage and then divorce. That was also the year of Today Show and Brooke Shields, which was just a bad look. And I think that's a year after... And then I do think that the Scientology videos are leaked in 2005 as well.

And he's just split up with his longtime publicist, Pat Kings kingsley who shaped a lot of it and so it was just sort of like the the nadir and it affected his movie career for a long time and it did affect how people i think responded to him and even what it means to be quote tom cruise in a movie and so i've always felt like et Ethan Hunt is which is obviously a character he was playing before but this late period Ethan Hunt just does everything for everyone all of the time it has no faults and is always on the right side there's a reason for that I think that's persuasive um it's safe harbor for him for sure and that that's the the same reason that I capped that 10-year

run in 2005 because his career does change pretty significantly but let's go back to the very beginning um you know obviously the first film he appears in is endless love he's in a very small part in that role so there's no way that's going to qualify here now i revisited taps per my rec because sierra and i were discussing it over the weekend and i probably have not seen that movie since the early 90s. And I thought it was really interesting and unusual. And I don't think I really realized that Daryl Ponskin was the author

of the original story. Yeah, the last detail, yeah. And I thought it was ultimately very unsuccessful, but had tons of great moments in it. The thing that was interesting to me was it's like a sliding doors moment for what kind of a career Tom Cruise could have had.

He has the Sean Penn role in this movie. He does. Yeah. And he is like the edgy, kind of bratty, slick, like no one can tell me what to do guy. And he doesn't really ever play that again, I guess, except maybe the first half of Rain Man.

But that's just not really his mode. Even in Color of Money, there's something kind of like heartwarming and dumb about his version of like the show off. And so I just thought it was interesting that the way he performed in that movie, it was not at all what I remembered. And if this movie were made now,

he would be in the lead part. He would be, who's the lead in that movie? Tim Hutton. Tim Hutton. I don't, I don't think it should be going in. I just thought it, it is a,

you talk about great performances. I don't, I don't, I don't know if you'd call it great performance. It is a self-consciously actorly performance. Like,

I think he's coming up in a generation of guys like, like Penn. I think that those guys think that that's good acting. Somewhat mannered, maybe a little bit method-y,

very electric anti-heroes or problematic characters. And then he just pretty much moves totally left to left of that. And it's just like, I'm never doing... Not doing that. That can be Sean Penn's thing. This can be eventually like,

you know, Jason Patrick's thing or whoever the actors are who are kind of emerging at that point, Downey, you know, they can play these weirdos.

Like, I'm going to be Maverick. I'm going to be Pete Mitchell. Polished. Yeah. Like, I'm going to be really polished. Did you rewatch Taps?

No, I didn't. Okay. I, there were only so many movies that I could rewatch given current? No, I didn't. Okay. There were only so many movies that I could rewatch given current other life obligations. But, you know, we're doing okay.

Did something happen in your life? Yeah, believe it or not. Cool. 1983, he makes four films. The Outsiders, small role in that film. Losing It, it's like a teen sex comedy.

Risky Business, perhaps the teen sex comedy. Not much business. Perhaps the teen sex comedy. Not much of a comedy though. And all the right moves. Beginning his lifelong love affair with football. He sure does love to throw the pigskin around, doesn't he? He loves to participate in sports. And he always seems very natural participating.

The big game was here. That's the iconic moment from Oblivion. Thousands of people cheering touchdown. It's getting this fucking thing beamed into an earpiece. I did just rewatch oblivion to prep for Maverick and it's a little better than the way that you're selling it. It's a little bit, but not that much.

Yeah. Uh, I don't think the outsiders is going in. Obviously it's a, uh, he's the ninth lead in that movie. What a cast, of course. And funny to imagine him emerging as by far the brightest star.

Losing It, I haven't seen it forever. I'll be addressing that on the Soul Man rewatchables. Oh, that's exciting. With the solo pod. Yeah. The solo Soul Man pod. Losing It? Not when Risky Business is in it.

How are the sexual politics of that film? Not good. Okay. I mean, not that the sexual politics of Risky Business. How are the sexual politics of that film? Not good. Okay. I mean, not that the sexual politics of Risky Business are an improvement. I mean,

you know. At least Risky Business is sex positive, I guess. It is. Yeah, it is, sure.

I feel Rebecca De Mornay is empowered in that film. Is she not? She's a businesswoman, an entrepreneur. I don't really want to get into that at this particular. Perhaps not.

Yeah, we can talk about the dancing and then move on. It would be pretty hard to leave Risky Business out. I think we have to. Yeah, it's got to be in. Okay. We're going green for Risky Business. All the Right Moves.

I believe this is a Chris movie. I enjoy it. This is a Big Bill movie. Bill, okay. Bill Simmons? Yes. I see. Yeah.

This is a Big Billy Simmons one. Is it in? No. I see. Yeah. This is a big Billy Simmons one. Is it in? No. Is it a yellow? Should we return to it in discussion? Sure. I mean, it's not going to be in. I love Bill with all of my heart, but it's not going to be in.

We're talking about 10? We can yellow it right now. 10 films comprise the Hall of Fame. Okay. Yeah. I'll make it yellow, but it's more a well I want to see more of a darkened yellow more of an orange

are we going sentimental it's a darkened yellow yeah we like color combinations have not gone well in this podcast before but I do

yeah it's more of a honeycomb yeah alright 1985 legend is it going in for your sentimental well it's not a good film in fact it might be

Ridley Scott's worst movie but it's there's something about it it that is appealing to me emotionally. You're not going to try to make the case for Legend over, say, Top Gun? No, no. Okay. I think that there's probably five films in his career that are like lockdown the greenest green you've ever seen in your life. Where it's like Hollywood doesn't exist without these five movies.

But, I mean, Legend, I don't care about. But we have to have some drama, some intrigue. I think there will be

some drama. It's coming up in 1986. There's going to be some drama. So Legend goes red. I'm not going to tell you guys no. Yeah, you are. That's the whole point of these podcasts

is that we tell each other no. We're all just like, I agree. But like, listen. Very good point, Chris. I'm so glad to be here with you. Amanda, you make a great point. The NPR in you is really

very beautiful in this setting. 1986 is Top Gun, which is the greenest of greens. We're all agreed on that. And what color is the color of money, Sean? It is green. Now this is a CR class. I'm a fucking animal!

Now, if this were just Amanda and I sitting in this room and the color money came up. So you guys wouldn't talk about how Tom Cruise shooting Nineball and dancing to Werewolves of London is one of the great movie scenes ever committed to cinema. I think it's important. I'm not saying that. I'm saying if it were

just the two of us, I would probably speechify about Scorsese for 90 seconds. Amanda would check out and then she would be like, it's not going in. I like the films

of Martin Scorsese. What are you talking about? What is this slander? I'm not saying I would have said it's going in. I'm just saying you would have arrived at the conclusion. I'm not some nerd about it

like the two of you are, but this one's pretty important. You know what Amanda loves? Amanda loves when Jesus speaks to Andrew Garfield and he's just like, you know, some nerd about it like the two of you are, but this one's pretty important. You know what Amanda loves? Amanda loves when Jesus speaks to Andrew Garfield. Yeah. And he's just like, you've done enough, brother. Remember when I had to go see that by myself? You can go be in Spider-Man.

Because you had all seen it already. And I was just like me on a Friday afternoon sitting in the arc light, RIP, just watching Andrew Garfield lose his mind. What are they waiting on with the arc light? Yeah. What are you guys up to? Man, that's a whole other pod. You already moved on from silence. You didn't even let me say one word about silence.

What do you have to say about silence? I'm sorry. I am launching a 75-part pod about silence. Is it silent? Yeah. It's just transcendental meditation. Just me in front of a microphone. They're Jesuits, right?

Yeah. My dad told a good Jesuit joke this weekend, but I can't remember it. Good podcast. Can we get some separation of church and state on the big're Jesuits, right? Yeah. My dad told a good Jesuit joke this week, but I can't, weekend, but I can't remember it. Good podcast. Can we get some separation of church and state in the big picture? Okay, sure.

Sorry. Is the color of money going in? It's green. Please. Yeah, it's green. We can fight about it later. Okay. I liked your pun.

Is it, would it be a pun, wordplay? A little wordplay. Yeah, it was good. 1988. This is also a big year for the guy.

Cocktail, in which he appears as the world's greatest bartender Brian Flanagan but he has to learn a few things that's right can I just ask

do you think that there is anything in cocktail that can't be gotten from Top Gun um Brian Brown yeah

I just mean like is it a duplicative entry I'm not listen and are we bill-pilled by like how much he likes that movie and we're almost like

hearing his footsteps where it's just like yeah I am a little bit nervous just about the bill of it all

what's he gonna do fire you cause no I don't think he's going I hope he would fire you first but Sean's gonna be like it's fucking Amanda's idea I was just playing along with it we didn't put cocktail in the... No, I don't think he's going... I hope he would fire you first, but...

Sean's going to be like, it's fucking Amanda's idea. I was just playing along with it. It's my idea. It's my idea. You don't even want to make it yellow. You can make it okra. What's a good beige? I thought Matt Gourley had the great point

to make things chartreuse. If they were not quite in, we weren't really sure about what to do with them. Bobby has elected to make it orange. Charlie Babbitt? Charlie Babbitt, Rain Man. No, but orange is the wrong way. On the spectrum?

You know, that's towards red. But isn't that where we're at? Isn't it more likely to be out than to be in right now? Well, then it would just be yellow. Perhaps we have a polka dot setting of some kind. I don't know what to do about Cocktail. I mean, look, Cocktail's not a good movie.

Bobby, I would like you to come up with a Zodiac Killer cipher to put next to this. Let's go to Rain Man. We'll come back to Cocktail. Okay. Because I don't even really have a feel for... This is going to get out of hand

really quickly. Yeah. We've got two. Relax. We're doing well. We have three. What's the first? Oh, Risky Business, Top Gun, Color of Money. You insisted upon the color of money, which is already making things a little hairy. We got two. Relax. We're doing well. We have three. What's the first?

Risky Business, Top Gun, Color of Money. You insisted upon the color of money, which is already making things a little hairy. He has a t-shirt that says Vincent on it. It's a strong case. Rain Man is the only film he has starred in that is one best picture, I believe. I believe you're right. And he's quite good in this movie.

He's excellent in this movie. And he's quite good in this movie. He's excellent in this movie. And he does the real the transformation which is not really something his characters do very much of to your

point Amanda. He's often the protector and he's got to be steely in the face of crisis. This is one where he's a shit bag and he learns to love

his brother. I mean he does play a lot of really like lovable assholes who then lose the asshole. You know it's i mean it is a slight maverick is a little full of himself you know it's a confident overconfident guy who just has to be brought down a notch whether he's the best fighter pilot in the world or the best bartender

in the world so it's a familiar ish arc but So you're saying Rain Man is out? No. I thought that you guys made a convincing case on the rewatchables, which I listened to recently. Okay. Had you just not ever listened to the rewatchables? No, I do sometimes. And then you had a kid and you were like, I guess I'll start listening to podcasts. I'm catching up. No, I listen to some of them.

Okay. You know, sometimes there's a movie that I've literally never heard of that's like a Sean and Bill special. A Chris and Bill special. Yeah. I was going to say, I don't usually pick those. Yeah. But I have been catching up. Those are good podcasts.

They are good podcasts. I like hanging out with my friends. I get it now. Podcasts. Amazing thing. You had a parasocial friendship with your real friends. Yeah. During your pregnancy.

No, it was really, it was during the first two months when i just had to walk a baby around all the time to get him to sleep but the rain man is really cruises movie or that it's a yeah that was the case that we were yeah and i think that that is pretty convincing it's just so hard to be like yeah we've got five already it's 1988 well i think you said you want a drama and i also think we'll be paid off We're not gonna have to Pick that many From the last 10 years You're right

I don't think Alright well Let's make Rain Man green And let the chips fall Where they may Okay As they do in Las Vegas When they visit

That's right 1989 Born on the 4th of July Have to Now this is his This I think is his Best performance I think Jerry Maguire Is his most appealing

And that's why I picked it But To the thing that you're saying, which is like, does he really have the stuff? This is, this is, this is him being like,

I can be Daniel Day-Lewis. Yeah. I will say make it green, but I have my eye on this one. Wow. You're going to cut, you're going to circle back. Yeah.

This is, that's why we have yellow, Chris. No, make it green. It can go into the conversation because green is going to be like, oh, we have 12

and now we have to argue, right? Sean, remember when we played Fuck, Marry, Kill with Oliver Stone movies? Yep. Chris, go. I would fuck Wall Street. I think I did as well.

I would marry JFK. Yeah, you would. Yeah. And I would kill W Okay Great Although W Is W better than Vice?

Do you think? No I like Vice Okay W I'm not a huge fan of I think that that's what I did I think I fucked Because we had two each Yeah we did

And I think I fucked both JFK And Wall Street. Didn't Oliver Stone make a Snowden movie? He made a film called Snowden. That movie was tough. Yeah. It was not good. Yeah, maybe I'd kill that.

Okay. No disrespect to freedom of speech. So you would just, no disrespect to freedom of speech? Yeah, getting the info out there. That's brave of you. Was that like a message you just sent to your cohort? Born on the Fourth of July was not mentioned amongst that crew. It's pretty good.

I'm not sure you liked it. I mentioned it. I really liked it. I think I praised it as well. I might have married it as well. I think you did as well. Yeah. I think it's very good.

I mean, it's obviously a tough watch, and Ron Kovic's story is very difficult to live through. I think it's very good I mean it's obviously a tough watch and Ron Kovic's story is very difficult to live through um I think it's a major I think it's major stuff I think it's interesting that he never did anything like this again where he was like I'm getting in you know I'm wearing a wig and I'm not until Tropic Thunder right and that was obviously for laughs and this was the opposite of that um to me it would be an automatic in but we're in a lot of trouble already just we're in one of the great runs of movie making history so let's just let's just enjoy it and then we can start to cut the fat okay days of thunder no i agree no but i thought you were gonna make a case for it i like it but it's again we're still like in the the vapor trail the afterburner of top gun here where

he's like i think trying to tap the same vein a little bit. It's re-Top Gun. Shout out Nicole Kidman. But with Nicole Kidman. Love happens, you know? Bobby Duvall. He's great in this. John C. Reilly, right? Early Reilly. You know where Cole Trickle hails from?

North Carolina, right? No. Philly? No. Long Island? No. Atlanta? Eagle Rock, California.

Really? Yes. Oh, wow. Very notable in this story. Okay. Does anybody call it Eagle Rock, California. Really? Yes. Oh, wow. Very notable in this story. Okay. Does anybody call it Eagle Rock, California? Don't they just like refer to it like as Los Angeles? Well, Cole Trickles says I'm from Eagle Rock.

So file that away. 1992. Far and away. Pass. No. Bare knuckled boxer, Joseph Donnelly. Okay. Can I spoil this movie?

What's that? Can I spoil this movie? How many movies is he dying? Ooh, not very many. Yeah. This and Collateral? Sorry, spoilers. Well, Interview with the Vampire, famously,

he has this incredible expiration. I'm scrolling. Will Ethan Hunt ever die? Well, that was the plan, right? Well, he wasn't going to die. He was going to pass the baton on, right? Was he going to die? I don't think he can die now.

It's not part of... That's not why people want to go to these movies. Ringing in my ears is Henry Cavill's speech from Fallout where he's like, how many times

can a man be disavowed, discarded, and ignored by his government? No, it's great stuff. Never dies. He never dies. And he poured burning jet fuel

on that guy's face. You're really out Fox Cavill on that one. A Few Good Men is in. Yes. A Few Good Men is legendary. There was someone very rude after the 92 draft who commented that... Are you secretly really online right now?

Yes! I sit in a dark room for like three hours a day being like, go to sleep, tiny child. And then looking at the mentions of the draft. Because I'm hiding under the damn crib and just scrolling. My brain is rotting. Okay. I'm so glad to see you.

I know, but it just seems like you're really going against Dobmob tenants. That's true. That might be why you fell in the last two drafts is because you have rejected your core philosophy. You rejected gardening. No, what happened is because you have rejected your core philosophy gardening yeah no what people were going out you took i have been gardening also did you know you're not allowed to garden during pregnancy or you're i mean you're allowed to but they tell you not to it's it's really emily oster it's kind of like an alien transition to nancy meyer's heroin is really taking wait do you see my best emily oster yeah oh yeah okay because before she was whatever's happening now, which I don't subscribe to, like literally

I'm not on the sub stack. Please don't ask me. She wrote a book about pregnancy and like updating the rules. And then she was like, I'm actually a COVID expert. Yes. Okay. But she started. I'm sure she's got a lot of things to offer.

I was just. We're slightly off track. Okay. started i'm sure she's got a lot of things to offer i was just we're slightly off okay okay i was very core to my vision during the 1992 draft those are all like really peak amanda movies with the exception of one film sean that you snatched from me and you hurt my soul artfully and then someone else decided just to comment that he i was gonna say he or she but i'm pretty sure it was a he uh probably see our head yeah no does not under well i don't think so because this person does not understand this way that a few good men holds over this podcast there are people who think

that there are a few movies out there that have like basically taken the ringer hostage social network they're like it's good it's not great you could man why do you guys talk about this like it's the greatest movie yeah right yeah wow those people are so wrong those people are not a part of the dot mom they don't understand what living is we're doing splendidly in terms of what movies we obsess over for no good reason the firm the firm is a movie that i love that might be the best episode of the rewatchables ever in my opinion um and only because because of Chris's imitation of Wilford. I've listened to it. Um,

but what does he say? What does she find in there? Mitch heartbreak. It's, uh, him referring to what she finds in her mailbox. Uh, okay.

She opens up a red book. What does she find is the firm in I would like to put it in oh my god I would like to put the firm in but this is

back to back lawyers and I go Caffey over McDeer even though even though I actually think the McDeer performance is Amanda let you put

the color of money in without flinching. Yeah. And you just, she said, I want to put the firm in. I said, put it in, but when we get to the fat chopping, we're going to have to choose the lawyer. Okay. I didn't realize that this was a one lawyer only Hall of Fame. Damn, it would be so sick if Daniel Caffey and Mitch McDeer started their own firm.

Yeah. And you could like, just be like, those fucking talk to Caffey and McDeer, even though it's the same guy. The firm two colon jagoffs. That'd be good, right? All right, 1994, Interview with a Vampire. Revisited this movie recently for a movie about vampire movies with Van.

It was pretty bad. Yeah, it's going to be a pass for me. Yeah. One of the great all-time red carpet photos, though, of Brad Pitt, Tom Cruise. Teenage Kiki. And Teenage Kiki. And some other people who are just there because it's the 90s. I can't remember right now, but very special stuff.

Presumably Christian Slater was there as well. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I forgot about that. I have an important question. Okay. Leading into 1996. Okay. Can I ask a question about the record keeping right now? Bobby, the firm is in yellow. I think I did that. Oh, okay? Bobby, the firm is in yellow. I think I did that. Oh,

okay. Sean, the firm is in yellow. Okay. Put the firm in green, Bob. Um, 1996 is when mission impossible begins at the Brian to help to Palma entry

into this franchise. Some would say it's still the best one in the whole series. Something I would say, uh, shall we make an agreement amongst ourselves right now about how many Ethan hunts are going into the Hall of Fame? We certainly can, but that would probably diffuse, or maybe it would raise the drama.

How many greens do we have right now? All 14. Two, three, four. We have seven. Seven. Okay, so I'm just asking. If you guys wanted to do more than one, I would say we should do one from the one to three era

and one post three if you want i think that i would naturally do that anyway but you know i don't think we need all not a big rule guy you know yeah that's true you seem really nervous like something's gonna be taken away from you what what what are you holding out out for? I have like a weird feeling that you guys are going to be like, only you care about Collateral. But I care about you. You're already so...

Listen, let's just be plain about this. We have seven movies in already. We are at 1996. It goes Mission Impossible, Jerry Maguire, Eyes Wide Shut, and Magnolia. All four of those movies are going in.

So that's 11. Yeah. It's 1999. Okay. Like, we have a long way to go here. I know. Bobby, brew some coffee, bud. I have to say that we're overusing the green here.

This is what yellow is for. That's what I'm saying, dude. And I said, I want the Furman. And everyone said, okay. And then someone put a different color. So I just was advocating for myself. and everyone said, okay. And then someone put a different color. So I just, I was advocating for myself. You're right too. You should always say what you want to do the same way you should have said, I really want the color of money. And we should have said,

that's going into yellow, but we're doing things all out of whack here right now. It's your pod, man. Imagine listening to this podcast and being like, all these people are sick. They have brain worms and they keep talking about these colors. Like we can see the same spreadsheet that they're looking at and they can't about these colors like we can see the same spreadsheet that they're looking at and they can't. Nevertheless, Mission Impossible 1

has to go in. That's of course the originating text. It's an amazing action film. He's great in it. It's the creation or the sort of reinvention of one of the signature

movie characters of the last 30 years. And briefly, maybe the hottest sparks ever come, well, I mean, this is a shout,

but I think that he and Kristen Scott Thomas. Not Emmanuel Bear. No, he and Kristen Scott Thomas in their brief moment together. It's like there's smoke coming off the hills. See, I would have said the same thing about him and Ving Rhames. Yeah.

I feel like that's really where the heat is coming from. Jerry Maguire is also in. Oscar nominated. One of his great performances. Really pulls everything together. Help me help you he's in 1999 eyes wide shut this is his acting year eyes wide shut probably should have come out in 1998 but stanley kubrick took his time on this one um and i i think it's amazing i also think magnolia is amazing i realize i I have a bit of a Kubrick and PTA problem from my perspective.

You don't have to. You don't have to. Yeah, it's fine. Okay, so they're both green. Yeah. Don't get in your head about people being like, you guys like Social Network too much. It's called taste.

Thank you for supporting me. Mission Impossible 2 is not in. No. I will say one of the reasons why I identified this period as like his high watermark is he did cool stuff like hire John Woo to direct a Mission Impossible movie. It didn't work out. Probably a function of the script ultimately. But that's awesome that he did that.

It's also awesome that he adapted Abre los Ojos into Vanilla Sky. A movie that I really like a lot. I do not think it should be in the Hall of Fame. But it's admirable. It is admirable. It's an interesting film. It's a big swing. It's something that we don't see as much from him these days. It's a really bold and strange movie.

It's disappointing that he and Cameron Crowe did not continue to work together. I know he produced Elizabeth Town. He did. But it would have been cool if they could have come up with something else. Maybe they still will. I mean, honestly, who better to be writing about living in your 60s? Like those two guys together. Let me ask you this.

This is 60? Would you watch Jerry Maguire 2? Of course. I would rather watch just like a thinly veiled reimagining of that character than like what's Jerry Maguire doing now? But think of it like The Color of Money. If it was like The Hustle and The Color of Money. If it was like The Hustle and The Color of Money

and he returns to his Eddie Felsen. Like that would that would be really interesting. Obviously he's doing that with Top Gun right now. Yeah. But Pete Mitchell is not

as developed a character as Jerry Maguire. Could be interesting. 2002 Minority Report. I think this movie is amazing. This movie is fucking great. Is it now

is it it's cruiseness that makes it amazing? Or is it more about Spielberg? I think it's the total package. He really almost gets this movie grabbed from him by Farrell a couple times. Yeah. Yeah. And Samantha Morton.

Yeah. To me, it's more Spielberg. You know, but again, I am projecting kind of a limited view of Tom Cruise on Tom Cruise. And this is the period where he's doing the fun stuff. I'm going to say yellow for now. Okay, let's go to 2003,

The Last Samurai. I watched this movie for the first time in 20 years. I went over to your house and it was very ostentatiously like on the hold screen of this. Oh yeah, when you went down to the dungeon. Sean's trying to tell me something.

Did you watch it? While I was in your house. Yeah, I just snuck away. You were like, can I take a pee break? And then you just watched a two and a half hour epic. Ed Zwick movie. Yeah. Don't think this is a very strong film.

No. I actually don't think, my impression of it was that it is not guilty of the things that maybe I thought it was guilty of, that other people think it's impression of it was that it is not guilty of the things that maybe I thought it was guilty of that other people think it's guilty of. Like White Savior complex? Yeah, White Savior

kind of imperialistic story about how like one man helped solve the way of the samurai. Isn't that, that isn't the story of the movie, but it is a bit of a slog. Yeah. So it's out.

2004 Collateral. Lady Macbeth, forget the, forget the car seats. I, I rewatched this this morning for you. What'd you think? I watched it for you. I mean, it's a good movie, but I know how much it means to you.

Well, I appreciate that. We're three women in the CR army. I'm one of them. Who are the other two I think Hillary Rodham Clinton Marjorie Taylor Greene I believe two women identify themselves

on one of the threads oh yes that's right of course so I'm number three this is his only villain performance I think straight up

even though he's incredibly charming as this villain. What list stat is kind of a villain in Interview with the Vampire? I just, yeah. Like, a villain that it was, like, recognizable, you know, and not, like, a fantastical thing. And I feel like this is the most complicated and adult role he did

in the 21st century. Like, after, I guess, Vanilla i guess vanilla sky but just like the most nuanced shades of gray you know he is obviously playing a variation on a theme for man so it's not like this whole cloth like original character or anything like his name is vincent like it's just pretty much like a riff on on man's thing But as this assassin who's in town for one night and has to clean up an entire mess and uses Jamie Foxx as his chauffeur. And, you know, obviously I think like the same way you were like,

I could just talk about what Scorsese does for 90 seconds and Color of Money. And there's a lot of stuff in Collateral that's like, if this isn't a Michael Mann movie, it's like a pretty straightforward, like goofy movie. Yeah. But I think he's amazing in this. Are you saying that his role

as Klaus von Stauffenberg, a conflicted officer in the Third Reich? That is a movie that I watched recently. I watched this like a couple nights ago. Yeah. And while entertaining, if you want to talk about

like somewhat problematic. It's a mystifying decision. It's very confusing. He's like, I swear I'm not a Nazi. I'm just a German guy who happened to be fighting for the Germans in World War II. I'm sure those guys did exist, but it's weird for him to be like, this was it, man. These were our real heroes. Amanda is collateral in.

I really like this performance. And I watched it again this morning. Let me tell you, like 8 a.m. watching Collateral. It's just interesting. Also features Tom Cruise going, yo, homie, that's my briefcase. Well, but it's Tom Cruise not being like, you know, big, giant Tom Cruise. It's definitely a most restrained performance, but it's not flat and it's not boring. There's still the charisma.

Yeah, but there is also something i don't want to say like it is appealing i mean he's you know still being tom cruise but in a way that is varied and that usually it usually doesn't work for me when he turns it down um or i again just get really mad and i'm like why aren't you tom cruising but i think it really works. So this is an example of him going somewhat against type and it actually working. There's 11 greens and three yellows. We're making it green. Okay.

War of the Worlds. One piece of feedback that I got from a lot of people when I did post about that run, and this is the last film in that run through 2005 was that War of the Worlds is a bad movie and that is not correct. Who fucking said that? A lot of people in the replies to that tweet

which I think is really weird because I remember this being like one of the most satisfying blockbuster experiences I've ever had. This was a movie where the trailer came out and I was like

I can't wait to see this movie and then I went and saw the movie and I was like that is as good as I possibly could have thought it was going to be. What a thrill ride. I understand that the last act

is like, what if we gave robots a cold or what if we gave the aliens a cold? They're all like that. That's the fucking story. Yeah, they're all like that. And it's sick. I guess it's kind of weird

that he's like the whole like, I'm a Yankees fan, my son's a Red Sox fan kind of thing. It's a point of natural conflict between a broken family. Again, he's just a sports enthusiast. See, this is the thing. Twitter's making me of natural conflict between a broken family. Again, he's just a sports enthusiast. See, this is the thing. Twitter's

making me argue against World of the Worlds. Imagine if when my parents split up I rejected my father by assuming Yankees fandom. Imagine what an incredible life I would have led. Wouldn't it be more insulting to be a Phillies fan? That would have been a foolhardy decision, though. I could have had Derek Jeter in my life.

Sheesh. Is World of the Worlds's in we can make it yellow all right guys it's not gonna make it yeah it's not gonna make it it's because it's a movie that while cruise is terrific in the movie that truly is a spielberg yeah yeah um okay yellow mission impossible three huge fan i like it it's but it's philip seymour off in movie. It's like the fourth best Mission Impossible movie. I think I drafted this in a movie draft recently. Did we do 2006 at some point? This is an incredible PSH movie. One movie draft I want to do is supporting character draft. Oh, that's a good one.

Like using the same categories. But you only pick character. Anyway, we can talk about that later. Just if you guys want to do something fun, watch the scene where Philip Seymour Hoffman counts down while having a gun to carry Russell's head. And Tom Cruise is just like, tell me what you need, tell me what you need.

And he's like, stop lying to me. Is that your kink? Yeah, I like watching PSH blow people away. 2007 Lions for Lambs. Nope. He plays Senator Jasper Irving. I knew you were going to take a while on this one. Saw this movie alone.

I'll never forget it. I sat down and I was like, Is this a Redford movie? Prepare to have your mind blown. Robert Redford directs Tom Cruise and Meryl Streep in a political thriller. And Shia? Is Shia in this movie?

I believe Shia is one of the helicopter pilots. And I thought that this was going to be all the president's men. And it was not. I fell asleep. Who's the journalist in this movie? I don't recall.

Let's look it up. Lions for Lambs. It's not Rooney Mara, right? No, that is... Oh, no. That's Kate Mara in House of Cards I don't recall I'll tell you who's in this film though Michael Pena Andrew Garfield Derek Luke Pete Berg Pete Berg plays Lieutenant Colonel Falco sure yeah he does when does he not uh this is this is not a good film Tropic Thunder

is a tough one 2008 because this character was very celebrated Tropic Thunder was a huge hit it was a

a spin for Cruise playing a such an overtly comic character it's still a cameo for the most part it's a glorified cameo

he's doing some version of Harvey Weinstein meets Joel Silver meets Ruperpert murdoch kind of conglomeration is it in i i think it's great i always found this to be a little bit like trying too hard okay i mean and this is the era of trying too hard this was like a very desperate to at post 2005 things doing a lot of stuff for the MTV Movie Awards

right exactly like please like hello fellow kids like me again and it worked to some extent yeah I mean

people thought this was hilarious yeah so in that sense it's important but I don't know yellow?

okay we'll make it yellow Valkyrie is not yellow it's red yeah and this is still one of the strangest things that's ever happened what an amazing collection of acting talent though it's a good cast tom wilkinson bill nye branna terrence stamp i mean those guys will just show up for any world war ii movie any side apparently they're like what's dumbledore up to now just

fucking point the camera at me. 2010, night and day. This is a James Mangold film starring the late movie star Cameron Diaz, who is no longer appearing in films. This is the one where he... She makes wine. That's apparently very good, according to someone at the grocery store who I asked, who was buying the entire case of Cameron Diaz's wine. And I was like, is that Cameron Diaz's wine? And she said, yes.

Are they going to resell it? No. And I was like, is it Cameron Diaz's wine? And she said, yes. Were they going to resell it? No. And I was like, is it good? And she said, yes. I have an idea for your birthday episode this year. Okay. Oh, great. Movie star and filmmaker wine taste test. Oh my gosh. Well, if you were really about that life, we would do movie star tequila brands. Well, maybe both. Let's do it. That would be like a 20 minute podcast though. Big picture after dark. But I do really feel that I'm my best after like one and a half tequilas yes so that your best yeah i honestly think that you're most entertaining i think i'm

the best version of myself like i have the best ideas i think i'm the most generous and the most fun to be around it's exactly one and a half margaritas by the time you get to two window has closed we've been doing this for years now you tell me you're literally describing cocaine how do we get to night and day um night and day can i just shout out the uh this is probably the time i don't remember when the couch jump is is that 2005 okay so i know that everybody was really offended by the couch jump and alarmed it, but I thought that the promo tour for Night and Day was weirder when he was like, we are going to premiere this movie on every continent within one day. Was this when he appeared on 106 and Park and did the Young Jock Dance? I think so.

And that was iconic. Yeah. But this is one of those things where you're like, this is why movies collapsed. It's because they were like, what's important is that we premiere this film in eight continents and that Tom Cruise flies around the planet in 24 hours. On the other hand, an original comedy thriller, action comedy starring two of our best. Yeah. And it flopped.

But it's not good. I mean, this is when he's like- It has a great premise. You know, the like, she kind of gets scooped up into his world and you're like, he's like kind of an Ethan Hunt type figure and then everything kind of flips as the film goes on, but it doesn't really hang together. This is when he's sort of off putting like this whole era and and I don't know. But do you feel that way about Ghost Protocol one year later? Because I feel like that's the one where it's like Hunt is back. Yeah, but like being Ethan Hunt is not being a normal human being he's like fully ascended to you know whatever like

messiah complex that he has going for the next decade and it's almost easier to root for him or like watch movies or be excited when he's not even trying to be a normal human being right okay ghost pro is the dubai skyscraper burj khalifa yeah rogue nash is the Dubai skyscraper. Burj Khalifa. Yeah. Rogue Nation is the Kremlin Explodes. Rogue Nation is the first Macquarie. Ghost Protocol is Brad Bird. Right.

Okay. Just getting my story straight. Now, Ghost Protocol is good. We can just do the three Mission Impossibles right now. In my opinion, Ghost Protocol is good. Rogue Nation is great. And Fallout is exceptional. That's my feeling.

And you go exceptional over great in this world yes i i feel like fallout is the one where i'm like i am vibrating at a very high frequency after seeing this movie like this is what i want from summer entertainment yeah i mean that was one of our birthday movies we all saw it in the dome together i just remember at some point henry cavill and tom cruise are just punching each other on a cliff. Well, the bathroom, yes. But then also at the end. After a helicopter chase. Exactly.

Right. And Maya's like, yes, absolutely. Thank you. Just keep punching. I like all three of these a lot. I think in the realm of like action movies

in the last 10, 12 years, these are, all three of them are up there. Burj Khalifa might be the most kind of thrilling set piece. The movie itself, I think is okay.

It's awkward because of the Renner thing. And they don't really do the handoff. And Rogue Nation feels like them resetting. They introduced Rebecca Ferguson into the film. And now we see that she's going to be in the next movie. And now she's a big part of this. By the way, did you see Kittredge is back in the new Mission Impossible trailer?

From the original? Oh, yeah. And Hayley Atwell is joined. That's big. There's an amazing, Andy pointed this out to me, there's an amazing quote in the Dead Reckoning Wikipedia page where Hayley Atwell is just like, I do not know who my character is nor what she is doing.

And she's like, it was a very exciting experience to find those ambiguities, but like, this is like we were writing the movie as we were going and it's like, you're a good guy, you're a bad guy, you are mysterious. She could probably say the same about her role in Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness. She still doesn't know she was in the Multiverse of Madness. Oh, I didn't know she was.

I did actually, though, because I listened to that entire podcast that you guys did. We briefly mentioned her. She has a very small role. Right. But you said Hayley Atwell. And then I was like, oh, two words I recognize. You would be disappointed by her appearance, I think. I won't be seeing the movie.

But I did listen to the spoiler portion. So no on Ghost Pro. I think no on Ghost Pro, certainly no on Rock of Ages, which I seriously dislike. I'm going to go no Jack Reacher just because I know how tight things are getting. Yeah. Jack Reacher is an interesting object of millennial movie making. Did you watch the the amazon reacher i watched a few episodes um and certainly the man who was cast as reacher what's his name alan richson is is quite a strapping fellow oh that's right that came out like in february right that's because zach as soon as he read those books no no no but right after nox after Knox was born and that phase of you barely have a brain, I think Zack was just like,

Reacher is the perfect show for me because it was just people punching each other. Yeah. It is like procedural action movie. It's like as close as TV has gotten to... What would have been a comp for this in the 80s or 90s? I guess it's kind of like $6 million man kind of thing.

It's like a throwback a little bit to Magnum P.I., but this is much more like... It's Sherlock a little bit to Magnum P.I. but this is like much more like it's Sherlock Holmes who then like throws dudes through walls yeah and that is supposed what the film was supposed

to be too which is like this is the ultimate military policeman but Tom Cruise is you know Tom Cruise is a 5'8 and Jack Reacher

in the book is like 6'6 so that was very strange and I think Macquarie wanted to make it much more like Death Wish so it's just like

the fidelity to the canon size of the no because it's like they're talking they talk about reacher like he's the predator you know it's like be careful because the monster is coming and then it's tom cruise in a leather jacket and you're like all right like i'm sure he's tough but yeah what are we doing here but and then macquarie made it kind of like a dirty hairy 70s crime movie which is cool. It's pretty good. Yeah. Do you guys remember

who directed the second one? No. This knocked my noodle over when I looked at it last night. Who? The second one is called

Jack Reacher Never Go Back and it was directed by Edward Zwick. Oh, I didn't know that. A reunion after the last McCrory wrote it?

McCrory wrote it. And we can say here that this is really the time when Christopher Macquarie becomes kind of the new shepherd of his yes yeah yeah he's writer and producer

written on almost like he wrote on Oblivion I think right yes Oblivion is the next movie that's his first film with Joe Kaczynski who is the director of Top Gun Maverick I

would say a somewhat successful science fiction film that has like really cool premise is a little bit inert at times and but it's clearly where kaczynski was like tom cruise should always be flying a plane like tom cruise flying planes is sick which it is uh edge of tomorrow for me this is in this is green yeah i fully expected you guys to be like this is green and i'll trade you

at some point for something else yeah yeah no yeah, yeah. No, I know. This is his most fun last, last most fun performance. Agree. Mission Impossible Rogue Nation I think is red even though I think it's quite good.

Yeah, right. We decided. Yeah, we decided. Jack Reacher and Evergo Baddock is definitely red. The Mummy has not come up yet. Now this is the only time really

when he bent the knee to the shape of the movie industry. When he was like I need a new franchise and what I need is the only time really when he bent the knee to the shape of the movie industry. When he was like, I need a new franchise. And what I need is the monster verse with universal pictures. So I wonder how much of this movie was a product of the old idea that he was going to pass Mission Impossible on to Brenner. And this idea that there was going to be this changeover. Like, I don't know when he signed on to do this movie,

but he was essentially, if I remember correctly, going to be the centerpiece of the Dark Universe, right? He was, yeah. And going to be in these multiple movies about Universal's Dark Universe character lineup. That was the plan. Which would be hard to do if you were also doing Mission Impossible,

and I guess also, like, Top Gun 2 has been in the works for 15 years. Well, I think the idea was to set up, I think it was Russell Crowe as Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Yes. I think it was Johnny Depp as the Invisible Man. I want to say Javier Bardem. Was he Frankenstein? Or Wolfman. Or the Wolfman maybe?

Yeah. And Angelina Jolie, I think was a bride of Frankenstein. And they had amassed this you know they took that famous publicity photo of all of them gathered together

and then they never made any other movies because the mummy was so bad the roster of people who wrote on this movie is fascinating Jenny Lumet

Academy Award nominated screenwriter did the story for Rachel Getting Married Alex Kurtzman who went on to direct the movie and has written

many many franchise films including Star Trek and Transformers movies. John Spates, who co-wrote Prometheus. I think he co-wrote Dune. He's co-written a lot of huge movies. And then, officially in the screenplay, Dylan Cussman, Chris McQuarrie,

and David Koepp, who might be the most, just dollars to donuts, successful screenwriter the last 30 years. This movie's an abomination. I think this is the only non-festival movie I've ever walked out of. It is worthy of that.

Yeah. It's quite poor and it's impossible to wrap your head around. Now I will say nothing personal against Alex Kurtzman. This is something that

Cruise does not usually do. Like Kurtzman is kind of a journeyman and not like a really celebrated filmmaker. The fact that Cruise convinced Ed Zwick to make the second Jack Reacher movie tells you everything you need to know

about what Cruise does, where he's like, I need the best guy to make this. Yeah. And that's not Kurtzman. I would say, though, that, I mean, it's worth mentioning that there was a fallout with Spielberg.

And I think that when there was a fallout with Spielberg, there was a decided change in the kind of directors that he was working with. Guys he could control. To some extent. I mean, we'll always have to wonder like, what is a David Fincher, Tom Cruise movie look like? Or what does a Wes Anderson, Tom Cruise movie look like? Or a Spike Lee, Tom Cruise movie look like? Yeah. I hope he lets that happen again. I think McQuarrie is very gifted and isn't, isn't auteur in his own right, but he's making a lot of non-auteurish kinds of movies. But you're right. Two Doug Liman movies, an Alex Kurtzman movie, an Ed Zwick movie.

It's not a lot of risk taking with filmmakers. American Made, as I said, utterly bizarre. Has its charms, but very curious. Definitely red. Mission Impossible Fallout, I think, is green. We already decided it's green. Okay, so we're going to go through the list. Amanda has to get home to her child.

And frankly, so do I. Risky business. In. Green. All the right moves. Out. Out. Out, Bobby.

Top gun. In. In. The color of money. I'll tell you what. I'll tell you what. I'll tell you what. How are you feeling? Here we go.

It's got to be Color of Money or Collateral. Yeah, but which one will you pick? Okay, well, you choose. You have to. It's Sophie's choice for you. Do Collateral. You should do Collateral. Collateral.

Good. Okay. Color of Money is out. Cocktail. Out. Out. Okay. Color of money is out. Cocktail. Out. Out. Born on the 4th of July. Well, you just skipped past Rain Man.

I did. Oh, sorry, I did. Rain Man. In. Okay. Born on the 4th of July. I think it's in. In, and that's five?

That's five. No, that's four. That's four, but I... We could ask for a screen man okay we can come back to it a few good men in the firm

yeah are we sure the firm okay are we sure but like can't we have fun what do you mean can't this be an expression of self what's not fun about

Edge of Tomorrow I'm not gonna fight you guys on Edge of Tomorrow I know it's like you know Letterboxd's number one movie I get it. If you want to borrow from somewhere, we have to lose one of the Mission Impossibles.

Wow. Okay. Should he be rewarded for playing the same part? Guys, we have 16 films on the list to go through. Okay. There's six to cut. Just saying. To me, the firm is very much on the cutting.

Okay. I love it. But we're talking about the guy who made Mission Impossible and Jerry Maguire. No, I know. But it's also an example of what Tom Cruise can do to an otherwise... Pedestrian film. Yes. And in terms of the topic, the other actors involved, they don't make them anymore.

Fine. Fine. We can keep it, but we're just going to have to make some harder cuts. Okay. You're going to make me choose between Eyes Wide Shut and Magnolia then. Yeah. But I know what the answer should be. Well, okay. Minority Report, War of the Worlds, and Tropic Thunder are all yellow right now.

Does one of those... Tropic Thunder can go as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, me too. So we can get that down. I think War of the Worlds can go and Minority Report should stay. Okay. I think that's probably right. Okay.

I think it's reasonable to include one Spielberg. We're at 14 movies right now. I'm going to start from the beginning again. Risky Business, Top Gun, Rain Man, Born on the Fourth of July, A Few Good Men, The Firm, Mission Impossible, Jerry Maguire, Eyes Wide Shut, Magnolia, Minority Report, Collateral, Edge of Tomorrow, Mission Impossible, Fallout. few good men the firm mission impossible jerry mcguire eyes wide shut magnolia minority report collateral edge of tomorrow mission impossible fallout i think any common moviegoer looks at this and is like why is magnolia there why is collateral there okay common like a guy we found outside the restaurant out there magnolia has to in. Magnolia is like the number one.

Whoa, I'm not arguing against it. I'm Joe Popcorn. It's this kind of underestimation of the American film going public that has put us in this fucking situation in the first place. You know what? You're right. So like...

Let's circle back. Let's put Taps number one. Let's put Legend back on. What are you doing here in terms of like are you trying to argue against Magnolia so people can't come at you

and say like you're a little PTA lord for the sake of content take off one of the Mission Impossibles which one yeah you you proposed that

which one I think he's better as an actor and has better performance than the first one I think Fallout's more about a stunt show. But that is an

embodiment. Do you remember a single like human emotion or character beat from Fallout? Did you read the bylaws of Hall of

Fame construction? Where did it say it's all about emotion? I'm just asking a question. I'm allowed to ask a question. You're the one who's

assuming that some guy standing out on Mateo doesn't know what Magnolia is. Where are they at the end? In the Kandahar refugee camp? And it's Rebecca Ferguson, right? And Michelle Monaghan. Oh, no, it's Michelle Monaghan.

And she's got her husband there. Yes, exactly. Okay, so I remember the emotional beat. Yeah, and in the beginning of the film, when he's lakeside with his beloved michelle monaghan and sean harris is presiding over his wedding and he's like the fallout of all your dreams congratulations to sean that's an emotional moment ass in the fucking mission possible movies uh i do also think that if you don't have fallout then you don't okay well first of all Bobby told us thank you Bobby

I will read this comment Fallout brought us the motion smoothing PSA incredible text so that's a great note but also Fallout cements the Tom Cruise is back or we accept

without Fallout I know you guys love Edge of Tomorrow or yeah Edge of Tomorrow what was it called before? So are you arguing Live Die Repeat

are you arguing for I, die, repeat. Are you arguing for? I know it's like an internet thing and we can keep it in. That's cool. It's a tough one. Edge of Tomorrow

is not an essential Tom Cruise text. Chris and I love it. It's a five star movie for us. And I support that. And I'm not even arguing to take it out. But I think

without Fallout, we don't have any of the conversations we just had about how Tom Cruise reinvented his... Saved movies. Yeah, he's not in a position to do what he's doing now with Top Gun 2 without Fallout being what it is. And being as successful as it is. I'm going to be magnanimous.

We can return to this because we still have to cut a few other movies. I do think we could probably lose Minority Report because that is a Steven Spielberg achievement rather than a Tom Cruise achievement. Okay. I think what we have to do is Minority Report, Edge of Tomorrow, and The Firm all have to go. But we're keeping two Mission Improbable. That's us trading. Well, that still leaves us with 11.

So we can still lose Fallout potentially. No, I think we should lose Rain Man. I agree with Amanda. Even though you guys made a great case. Let me just see how that looks. That that is, you know, a movie about him and he's very good at it. And it's his only best picture winner. I think it's Rain Man or Bourne.

And I think you could choose one of those. And I agree with Amanda. I prefer Bourne over Rain Man. I do too. But see, okay, so if so if people are gonna look at this and be like you picked collateral over all these movies you picked a lot over minority report people they're gonna be like the listeners of this podcast was true to his his belief system and pick collateral because tom cruise is fucking amazing he's really good in it and he's i like

it i'm not in inevitably this becomes about like what you do and there's gonna be a yahoo who's like tropic thunder should have made this list you know let me just read this out loud so that you when you started being these various straw men uh-huh you started by saying people are gonna say what's magnolia doing in there and that just negates every argument against this list. It's your favorite filmmaker and it's about a guy trying to make peace with his dad

and you're just like, oh yeah, but like what about, what about. I am not advocating for Magnolia being cut. I am merely representing. Lestat got nixed

on the first go. Risky business, Top Gun, Born on the 4th of July, A Few Good Men, Mission Impossible, Jerry Maguire, Eyes Wide Shut, Magnolia, Collateral, Mission Impossible, Fallout. That's an awesome list.

Fallout is so important, but it sticks out like a sore thumb on this list. Then you want to do Edge of Tomorrow? But if the last two are Collateral and Edge of Tomorrow, then it really is like this is a big picture self-indulgent list. As opposed to all the other episodes. So maybe that's a reason to do it. This is an identity crisis for you guys. It's not for Tom Cruise. You know? Like, don't worry about it.

He's just trucking along. I feel okay about this. Something is off. Something is off. Something is off. What is it? I don't know. It's what you said at the top, which is like the last 15 years of his career

is fucking weird. And so, you know, in a way, you should really take Fallout off and put something back, put like Rain Man back, right? It's like Rain Man. That's a huge movie. It was the number one movie in 1988.

It won Best Picture. And the movie does not work without John Cruise. And he goes toe-to-toe with Dustin Hoffman. Who is arguably the greatest actor of the previous generation. Then fine, do it. And take it off. But here's the thing. Here's the thing.

Okay. I like Mission Impossible Fallout a lot more than Rain Man. Okay. Yeah. Then why are you stressed? I don't know. What are we talking about? What are we doing?

What is the purpose of this exercise? What are we doing? I don't know. You made up the whole thing. Do you like Mission Impossible Fallout more than Magnolia? No. No. Of course is the purpose of this exercise? I don't know. What are we doing, Sean? I don't know. You made up the whole thing. Do you like Mission Impossible Fallout more than Magnolia? No, no, of course not. But I'm not lobbying

for cutting Magnolia. Are we talking about like, I like to just have this on and it's great when I'm like walking through the room and... It has to be a fine-grained combination of importance, relevance, achievement, and idiosyncratic love.

That's what this exercise is. And so we're, look at Bobby. He's already slotting Rain Man back in. He's making an editorial decision. I don't love, you know, Rain Man. I know it's important. But we have a lot of important movies on the list. Should Rain Man be doing what Born on the Fourth of July is doing?

I said earlier, I was like, you guys should take one of those two. Just like we took one of his lawyer movies. Took A Few Good Men as the lawyer movie. I think that Rain Man, Born on the Fourth of July, and to some extent even Color of Money, I think you could include in that, was almost like his Oscar bait run. I think all of these movies helped define the various eras of his career. I guess this is as good as we're going to do. Well, we have 11 right now, so. We still have to cut one.

Should we cut Top Gun? No. That would be bold. That was like your version of should we cut 1917 from a Roger Deakins podcast celebrating his work on 1917 and you got away with it.

That's the last time we had a very normal pod together in person. Did you ever listen to that podcast? There was nothing normal about it. That was the joke. Amanda had to pee for 45 minutes uh i i think rain man out i think so too but this is weird this is not the energy that i want from you this

is not the energy that tom cruise he never ends all of did you did he end the last hall of fame podcast being like great job by everybody we did it no I mean he always ends really exercise any exercise with like self-recrimination and also blaming us as well you know because we're here

witness to you I know when the aliens come and when they study our culture they're going to start with this pod and they're going to

listen to every episode and they're going to say they're going to go to Tom Cruise and Tom Cruise is going to be like welcome I've been preparing all these people for you they thought I sounded crazy where do you want And Tom Cruise is going to be like, welcome, I've been preparing all these people for you. They thought I sounded crazy.

Where do you want? Rain Man is out. We have R10. R10 is risky business, top gun, born on the 4th of July, a few good men, Mission Impossible, Jerry Maguire, Eyes Wide Shut, Magnolia, Collateral, Mission Impossible, Fallout.

I'm getting the cruise cake while you finish this. Explain the cruise cake. Okay, so there is a cruise cake. There's a cake at a bakery in the Valley in Los Angeles. It's called Doan's Bakery. And Tom Cruise sends it to all of the famous people in his life every year.

And it's become like a- On a particular date? I think it's for Christmas. Like as a Christmas card, it's like a Christmas gift. And he's done this so often that then it becomes like an anecdote

for other people to tell on talk shows. When I got my cruise cake. Exactly. So like you can, Kirsten Dunst talks about like the cruise cake arrived at the house and how exciting it is for them. Rosie O'Donnell posts a lot, you know, like the cakes here this year. I wonder if Jake Johnson gets the cruise cake from Mummy. They got along really well. Should we call him?

I don't think I have his number. It's a white chocolate coconut Bundt cake. Okay. And this is the one that he always sends and people are like, it's amazing. I have to be honest, white chocolate coconut Bundt cake does not sound amazing to me based on the... Those are two good flavors for me. You're a coconut person? I am a coconut person too.

And you like white chocolate? I do. I like it in cake. There's actually an amazing cake in Atlanta, Georgia. A piece of cake. They're a white chocolate cake. If you're in the Atlanta's actually an amazing cake in atlanta georgia piece of cake they're white chocolate cake if you're in the atlanta area you never had it just like trust me go right now tremendous stuff no that's just like my childhood okay but i have always wanted to try this cake and it's a it's expensive on gold belly so i decided that this was a good excuse for us to try the cruise cake let's dig in okay this is very good yeah well i mean he sent it

this is really good cruise i wouldn't say that it's like really white chocolatey it's more just decadent it's just icing it's like vanilla-y icing. It doesn't taste very chocolatey, but I'm thinking maybe we put the cake in the whole thing. Okay, great. So out goes... Mission Impossible Fallout. Out goes Top Gun. In goes the cake.

I have a question. I don't know if this is still on the podcast or not. And I don't know, I want to break us because I have to go record the watch. Okay. What would you do if you had to do five? Hmm. I don't know, I don't want to break us because I have to go record the watch. Okay. What would you do if you had to do five? Hmm. Don't even think about it.

Just be like, look at the list and be like, here are my five. Top Gun, A Few Good Men, Jerry Maguire. What am I missing? Mission Impossible. Yeah, I guess so. The first one. That's four. Whiskey Business?

Mm-hmm. Magnolia. Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm. Magnolia. Oh, yeah. I do really like Magnolia. Do I have to pick my five from the 10 we settled on? Whatever you want. No, you can do it. Color of money.

Top gun. Okay. Collateral. Magnolia. Rock of ages. Edge of tomorrow. Wow. So two of your five

why didn't you fight harder are not even in our that's okay it's all about trading well that's an incredible place to stop um now I have this giant cake

yeah eat some more Amanda thank you for the cake you're welcome so good to see you in person it's great to see you guys with a microphone Sierra thank you as well this was civil

yeah we did well it was angsty this is what I thought was gonna happen yeah because we were like nicer um Chris is uh not talking into the microphone which is uh This was civil. Yeah, we did well. It was angsty. This is what I thought was going to happen. Yeah. Because we were like nicer. Chris is not talking into the microphone, which is.

I thought we were going to be nicer. Yeah, we're talking with food as well. Thanks to Bobby Wagner. Thank you, Bobby. Who's producing this episode. I gotta go make the watch. Okay. Bye, Chris. Thanks for listening to The Big Picture.

You want to hear more of us? We're talking about Top Gun Maverick later this week. Me and Amanda. We'll see you then.