The Big Picture - The Top 10 Garbage Love Movies, ‘Companion,’ and ‘You’re Cordially Invited’

Episode Date: February 7, 2025

Sean and Amanda react to the ‘Fantastic Four’ and ‘Jurassic World Rebirth’ trailers (1:00) before discussing the slate of movies being released that are tied to Valentine’s Day, including Drew Hancock’s ‘Companion’ (15:15), ‘You’re Cordially Invited’ (29:30), ‘Love Me’, and ‘Heart Eyes’ (40:00). Then, they mint a new bespoke subgenre called “garbage love”—romance movies that use genre as a vehicle to deliver their love stories (55:00). Then, Sean is joined by Hancock to discuss his circuitous journey to directing his first feature, ‘Companion’; casting Jack Quaid and Sophie Thatcher in the lead roles; working alongside ‘Barbarian’ producer Zach Cregger; the themes of the film; the difficultly of promoting a movie that relies so much on the tension in its script; and more (1:24:00). Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guest: Drew Hancock Senior Producer: Bobby Wagner Video Producer: Jack Sanders Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Look, it's not that confusing. I'm Rob Harvilla, host of the podcast 60 Songs That Explain the 90s, except we did 120 songs. And now we're back with the 2000s. I refuse to say aughts, 2000 and 2009. The Strokes, Rihanna, J-Lo, Kanye, sure. And now this show is called 60 Songs

That Explain the 90s, colon the 2000s. Wow, that's too long a title for me to say anything else right now. Just trust me. That's 60 songs that explain the nineties, colon the two thousands, preferably on Spotify. This episode is brought to you by Amazon prime. You know, Amazon prime is not just a shipping subscription, right?

Amazon prime isn't just one thing, but a collection of excellent services. Amazon Prime offers a range of services including Prime Video, Amazon Music, and Prime Fast-Free Shipping. They also have great shows, great movies. Here's my favorite Amazon Prime thing. Ready? So we do the rewatchables, right? And I always like to know who the actor is. They have this really cool thing when you watch a movie called X-Ray. You can click on it as you're watching the movie and the cast will pop up.

And you can see who all the actors are. And it sounds dumb, but when you host a movie podcast, it's like the greatest thing ever. Anytime I rent or buy a movie, I buy it on Amazon Prime. That's true. I swear. On Prime, whatever you're into or just getting into Prime service can help you get closer to it. Or discover something else to get into.

Whatever you're into, it's on Prime. Visit amazon.ca slash prime to get more out of whatever you're into. You hear that? Ugh, paid. And done. That's the sound of bills being paid on time. to get more out of whatever you're into. You hear that? Paid. And done. That's the sound of bills being paid on time. But with the BMO Eclipse Rise Visa Card,

paying your bills could sound like this. Earn rewards for paying your bill in full and on time each month. Rise to rewards with the BMO Eclipse Rise Visa Card. Terms and conditions apply. I'm Sean Fennessy. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is the Big Picture, a conversation show about lovers and friends. Later in this episode, I'll be joined by Drew Hancock, the writer-director of Companion, a clever new thriller, horror, sci-fi hybrid that I quite enjoyed. We'll be joined by Drew Hancock, the writer, director of Companion, a clever new thriller, horror, sci-fi, hybrid that I quite enjoyed.

We'll talk about it momentarily. Drew has been a writer and director in Hollywood for years. This is his debut as a feature filmmaker. He's got a very cool story of getting Companion to the big screen. Great hang, stick around for that convo. But first, I've just watched you, Amanda. Watch trailers for two upcoming summer films. Two July releases that we will be covering on the big picture.

What were those trailers you just watched? Fantastic Four and Jurassic World Rebirth. Brought to you by the Marvel and Universal corporations respectively. Let's talk about those things. Let's start with Fantastic Four. I haven't had a chance to talk about this yet. I did get a chance to talk about Jurassic World on a YouTube video that I recorded with Bill and Chris yesterday, but I wanted your thoughts as well. Fantastic Four. Do you know who they are? Do you know what that's all about?

You have explained it to me I think several times in an attempt to get me to remember the details and invest. I have not held on to any of that information, so I did just watch the trailer. So it seems like Hallmark Jetsons. Like, but they all have special powers. But like, is this sincere or is this satirical? Like, what's going on? It's a very good question.

It's unclear the timeline in which this story is happening. Oh, great. Because there's a- You know what, you know what, I love the answer to any question, be like unclear the timeline in which this story is happening. Oh, great. Because there's a... You know what? You know what? I love the answer to any question, be like, well, we're not sure what timeline. I don't just mean that it's multiversal. I mean, I literally don't know what year it is because the story, as we see it,

looks both mid-century modern and retro-futuristic. They did a nice job with the mid-century modern set. Yeah. So some of this stuff looks cool. The Fantastic Four is one of the most legendary Marvel comics created in the 1960s in the era of the space race. Four astronauts go into space. They then receive these powers because of this experience that they've had in space, and then they become heroes. Reed Richards, the smartest man in the world, Pedro Pascal in the film. Sue Storm, his wife, also a scientist,

she's the invisible woman. Her brother, Johnny Storm, is the human torch. And Ben Grimm, Reed's best friend, is the thing. Eben Moss-Bakarak playing the thing. Wait, so they go to space and then they get- They come back with powers. Do they get like hit by a meteorite? Yeah, there's like an event. I forget specifically what the space event is.

And I don't know what they'll show us here. But this is a very legendary brand. There have already been two different versions of this story in movies in the last 25 years. And they've been really bad. One by Tim Story and then one by Josh Trank. You know, they both had big stars in them. They both were big swings and misses.

A lot of people have made the case over the years, Fantastic Four is not really a very modern brand, and it's a little hard to convey that story. So I think it's smart to like pitch it in the past. Here's my problem with it. It's directed by Matt Schachman, who's one of the most accomplished and successful TV directors of his generation.

He's directed everything from Game of Thrones to Wandavision and everything in between. He's done lots of network dramas. He's done lots of prestige TV. This looked like TV to me. Okay. It just like looked like TV with a Marvel budget. You know, everything's very flat. A lot of like, you know, obvious single shots with multiple people talking in them. Just didn't have a ton of pizzazz for me. I know that some fans seem to be really excited about

it and maybe I'm just been so down on Marvel for so long. And part of it is this is my birthday movie this year. I like to have a cool movie on my birthday weekend. I get the PTA. I was hoping this would be cooler, you get the PTA. Well, technically it's one week later, but I'm claiming it as my own. Yeah, well, I think you're luckier this year.

Fantastic Four, The First Steps. What do you think those steps are? Where do they step into? Yeah, well I think you're luckier this year. Fantastic for the first steps. What do you think those steps are? Where are they stepping to? Wherever those like 40,000 missiles are coming from. Could be, could be. Do you know about Galactus? Yes, because Chris and Andy talked about him once. He like eats the world.

He's so powerful. He eats planets, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's pictured at the end of this trailer. We see that guy with a giant helmet. We see behind his head. Cool. I think you think it was an homage to the Brutalists. He was looking at the end of this trailer. We see that guy with a giant helmet. We see behind his head. Cool. I think you think it was an homage to the Brutalist. He was looking at the Statue of Liberty.

So this is just about like, hey, it's nice to have a family. Family is a significant part of the story, yeah. I mean, I like my family too. Yeah. The family they choose too, you know? Sure. It's a buddy and a brother and a wife and a husband.

That's, I mean, that's beautiful, but like... Kind of like how I think about you and Bob and Jack. You know, you guys are, you're my fantastic four. That makes me the invisible woman? No, you're the thing. Okay. What's the thing to you? Doesn't that have to make you one of the four?

Which one are you? I'm obviously Reed Richards, the smartest man in the universe. Oh my God. Set me right up, Bob. Thank you very much, Human Torch. That's what I'm here for, you know? Here to set you up, throw you some lobs. Appreciate that. The invisible woman, of course, editing video for us.

Thank you, Jack. Uh, I wish it looked a little better. I think our friends at the Ringerverse seem very excited. Okay. Will you be covering this show on the pod with me or will you set it out? I mean, I'm here. I don't think I'm on vacation yet. Okay. Vanessa Kirby?

Like, we haven't pinned it down. I vote for her. Yeah. You know, I'm like, is she really just playing a 50s trad wife? She's so much more than that. Okay, great. Well, aren't they always?

They are. They honestly are. They contain multitudes, and we'll see. Jurassic World Rebirth. Yeah. This movie's coming out earlier in July. This is, I think, July 2nd. And this is the seventh Jurassic World film.

And I know exactly what happened in every Jurassic World movie, as you know, chronologically. And it comes to us from Gareth Edwards, a very gifted director who sometimes struggles with story. He directed Rogue One, he directed The Creator a couple years ago. And stars Scarlett Johansson. The Creator was... which one was that?

John David Washington. Oh, right. And the small child robot years ago, and star Scarlett Johansson. The creator was... which one was that? John David Washington and the small child robot. Oh, yeah. What do you... I want to be free. I want all robots to be free. What about ice cream? Oh, yeah. That was some good stuff. Yeah, that movie was probably one of the best looking movies of that year. Yeah, I watched it on a plane. Very bad script.

Nevertheless, he's here, he's kind of born to make a Jurassic movie in many ways. He's great with CGI and, you know, less good with actors, but not terrible. Yeah. And the actors in this movie are quite good. It's Scarlett Johansson, it's Mahershal Ali, Jonathan Bailey, Rupert Friend, quite a cast.

They've assembled. I don't know what happened to all the other people from the last Jurassic World movie. I guess they all died, like, in a plane crash or something. Wasn't it like, I mean, Chris Ryan famously described it as sort of like a detente, right? And the dinosaurs get, you know,

Costa Rica and or this fake CGI island. Mm-hmm. They didn't have Yalta though. I think they were just like, we'll see you later dinosaurs. You know, they didn't actually hash it out. Well, but then I guess everyone else moved on, you know? Yes, yes. But for some reason, we have to go back to the island.

To get DNA from a dinosaur egg, I wasn't paying attention because I had some notes on Scarlett Johansson's line readings. But she wants to be Lara Croft. That's cool, I guess. Do you think she's? Never seen a Lara Croft movie, so it's really just... When we did the video, I was like, why did she do this?

She's just so much better than this movie, and she just spent 10 years in the MCU. Why are we just going back to franchises? It was pointed out to me that she loves Jurassic Park, and that when she heard there was a new Jurassic Park movie, that she was like, I want to be a part of this. That that's her favorite blockbuster, And so she's really passionate about it. That is good taste. And also she has two children, I believe, at least. This was Bill's point. Schools are expensive.

Well, I think it was more than what Bill was saying, which makes sense. You know, the old Ben Aff, like I was Batman for my kids thing, where she could be a hero in a Jurassic Park movie and her kids could see her be the hero. Right. You know, I wish you would just go make another marriage story or ghost world personally, but that's just me. This seems fine. Everyone seems slightly miscast to me.

With the exception of Mahershala Lee, who just seems to be having such a fun time that it doesn't matter, but like... He seems comfortable. Jonathan Bailey, like... Charm Master is like the nerd science guy? I don't know. I mean, you know, in theory,

that's what Jeff Goldblum was once upon a time. Can he bring that same energy? Yeah, but it's a different thing. I agree with you. Okay. So will you be seeing this movie? I will, yeah. Will you be doing the podcast about it?

I, yes. Okay. You know. That's cool. I like my job. Mm-hmm. And I like seeing all of you. So it's strictly to retain your position here at The Ringer. You'll be seeing both of these movies. I like my job. And I like seeing all of you.

Strictly to retain your position here at The Ringer, you'll be seeing both of these movies. I also have children who need health insurance. Good to know. Yeah. Very happy to hear that. You guys remember when Marshawn Lynch showed up to a press conference and it was every answer that he gave to every question was, I'm here so I don't get fined. Yeah.

That's you talking about this movie. You're being held against your will all summer, is what you're saying. Just listen, I meet my obligations. And the definition of my obligations are to see these films, and talk about them, and ask questions. Well, one, I enjoyed Jurassic World,

the first, the fourth movie. That was the first one with Blue. Yes. And it's a little silly, but it was a fun... Yeah, I had an OK time. ...CGI adventure movie. I'm like, I'm good. I'm good now. Like, we got it.

It's the... Dinosaurs are scary, you know? And you shouldn't go near them, because they might eat you. Right. We got... Can we do more than that? Is there anything else left to say there? Well... Don't go near them. Have there been water dinosaurs before? Yeah, come on.

I don't... I mean, I don't remember. Like, the Moronosaurus or whatever it is at the end of the... Mosasaurus. The Idiot-saurus? The thing I didn't like about that sequence, which looked kind of cool, was it just looked like Godzilla minus one. Remember when Godzilla's like in the water chasing the boat? I'm like, we just saw this in a movie two years ago, probably a better movie.

So that's kind of annoying. You know, I don't know what to say to you. Dinosaurs are not Godzilla. I want to point that out. Godzilla is a different thing. They are borrowing a lot from Godzilla at this point. Yeah. Even the whole like middle earth where the,

or like below the core, where do they keep Godzilla? Or no, where do they keep Kong? Is it inner earth? Yeah, that sounds right. There's an inner world. And Godzilla they let roam around, right? What's it called? It's like inside the earth.

I'm going to look it up, I promise. I think it is inside the earth. There's a Rebecca Hall CNN appearance filmed for the movie that explains it all perfectly. Yes. She is the exposition queen of the gods. Guys, I got it. I got it. What's it called? Hollow Earth? all perfectly. Yes. She is the exposition queen of the gods. Guys, I got it. I got it.

What's it called? Hollow Earth? Hollow Earth. Hollow Earth, sure. What do you understand? Hollow Middle Earth. Yeah, it was close. Would you be interested if Warner Brothers and Universal

could get their shit together in a Jurassic World Kong Godzilla crossover movie? No. I think that that's like, just think about all the exposition that they would have to do. Right? Yeah. They should cast like Tilda Swinton and Mark Rylance in it.

Team Godzilla. Godzilla is so powerful. Like it just nukes everybody else. He's a huge brat who always naps. That's what we know about Godzilla. And then when it's time to save the day or do whatever needs to be done, Godzilla just shows up, takes care of it, and goes back to sleep. Not like Kong, who uses his heart and his mind

to save the day. Wasn't there a plot line in Godzilla vs. Kong where there was like a podcaster there? He was like doing content? Yeah, Brian Henry Henry. Yes, over multiple installments of that franchise. Yes. You know?

And like, Millie Bobby Brown was really into it in the first one. He was making like Last House on the Left podcast. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then her dad was Kyle Chandler, and she tried to get Kyle Chandler to listen to it, and he wasn't a part of that. He was like, stop listening to this darn podcast.

Right. And they moved on. I think they, like, you know, healed, like, you know, whoever was in the last three Jurassic movies, you know? Yeah, yeah. And they went to Yelta. They all sank on a yacht together. They said thank you.

They moved on. But yeah, Brian Tyree Henry was still there, like, churning out the podcast and doing pod reads. I mean, it was a really brutal parody of a podcaster. Super into me undies, bomba socks. Sure. What were his other sponsors? And can you think?

Bomba socks actually do stay on a baby's foot if you need that. Interesting spawn from you. Thanks for sharing that. All bombas, please send to Amanda Dobbins, courtesy of Spotify. All the other socks fall off. Mm-hmm. Are you doing the read right now? No, I'm just like, I send to Amanda Dobbins, courtesy of Spotify. All the other socks fall off. Mm-hmm. Are you doing the read right now?

No, I'm just like, I'm just, you know, I'm living my life, I'm sharing my personal experience. That's good. You are retaining your position here at The Ring. Sure, and now I'm available to go to Hallow. Um, is there anything else in the world of movies you'd like to hit before we get into the topic at hand for this episode? Which was your idea?

Do you want to say anything about the Academy spoiling The Brutalist on its... I didn't love it. I didn't love it. Did you see that, Bobby? Bobby's so mad. I did see that. Well, number one, that's like the worst written scene in the whole fucking movie. We spent time on it on the episode.

And then they scroll the script underneath it for that being nominated for Mona and Brady for that screenplay. Listeners of the show who have not seen The Brut the brutalist do not look at the Academy's social media handles because in an effort to you know they do this they Show us the scripts of films that are nominated for original screenplay and adapted screenplay, and then they put the scene side-by-side They often do that during the telecast too, which is a cool thing the scene that they chose for the brutalist pretty important scene with Yeah in a three and a half hour movie, it happens in like three hours and 14 minutes.

It's very true. So don't watch that if you haven't seen it. There's straight up no defensible reason for not just choosing the exchange between Adrian Brody and Guy Pearce. What's that? Totally agree. That should be the scene.

I will say this, you sent me this and I was driving. And so all I saw at first was like, well, my phone read to me, Sean has sent a link to X.com and the comment, WTF. And I was like, oh no, they postponed the Oscars. You know, like, oh no, like something truly terrible has happened. And I was like, oh great. Like someone spoiled, you know,

the worst part of The Brutalist. Well, it's really more so that it's a critical moment in the movie. Everything is about perspective. It is about perspective. The Brutalist and also your response to that tweet. The fantastic four first steps, it's all about perspective. What timeline are we on, Amanda?

We're trying to figure that out every day. So today on the show, we were thinking about how just the word love appears in a bunch of movies that are being released this month and that Hollywood is always trying to hit their marks timing-wise for what the world is thinking about. And you know me, like every morning I wake up in February and I think, Valentine's Day. This is super important. It's really important that I reflect on love and those that I do love in my life and also

go to movies with those people that are about love. And so you had the idea, as we bundle these titles together, to talk about garbage love. So we're gonna talk about some new releases that are clearly using the love conceit. Exactly. Or they had some of the love conceit and then got shunted to February as a result. Very good point. We don't know if these films were made for this calendar.

Here is my advice to aspiring filmmakers, if you don't want your movie released in February, find a different angle. Yes, perhaps Christmas. Find a new slant. Yeah, or Halloween. Those might be better times than the release calendar. Nevertheless, the first movie we're talking about today,

I've already mentioned, it's Companion, which is written and directed by Drew, who I mentioned, who's on the show later, produced by Zach Kreger, who directed Barbarian and Boulderlight. It's kind of the crew, Roy Lee from Vertigo, the team that made Barbarian, which was one of the breakout surprises of 2022. Chris and I at length explained that film to you

on a podcast. That was a fun podcast while I had a concussion, yeah. It was fun. That's right. It was shortly after you smashed your head into a beam here at Spotify HQ. Very memorable times in America. That was right after my return from maternity leave number one. Yes. So it's like we're, we're in a similar place in our lives.

Let's recreate it after this pod smash you right into a beam. You might feel that you need to, after talking about all these movies, uh, the stars of this movie are Sophie Thatcher and Jack Quaid, Lucas Gage, Meghan Surrey, Harvey Gian and Rupert Friend. You know, Sophie Thatcher and Jack Quaid on a big upward trajectory as young stars in Hollywood, two interesting people. I wonder would they make our 35 under 35 list given where they're going right now. OK, Sophie Thatcher was just in Heretic last fall.

A modest success. And she's, you know's on Yellow Jackets, and she's been in a few other horror movies over the last couple of years. Jack Quaid, in addition to being on The Boys and being Dennis Quaid and Meg Ryan's son, has developed a reputation as like one of the good people in Hollywood.

Have you followed that? Oh, no. Just that he seems like a cool guy? And Drew, even when I talked to him, was like, yeah, Jack Quaid just like met me for coffee and we just hung out and he was super cool. He does seem like a cool guy. And Drew, even when I talked to him, was like, yeah, Jacqui just like met me for coffee and we just hung out and he was super cool. He does seem like a great guy who is also developing an onscreen persona as like, not Gen Z cuck, but Gen Z asshole of, uh, in a really effective way.

He's just really good. He leans deeply into that in this movie. So the premise of the movie is, it's about a bunch of friends taking a weekend getaway to one of the girls' rich boyfriend's house and they all get together and they make dinner together and drink, something you and I have done many times. This is a common vacation strategy.

Not a rich boyfriend's house yet. No, if there are any billionaires that would like to host the hosts of The Big Picture in their homes, but don't want to murder us, then we're open to that, right? I love a vacation. This reminds me, if Steve Cohen, the owner of the Mets, would like to host me at least, to talk about the signing of Pete Alonso. Oh, you guys did finally sign him?

We did. Oh, congratulations. And Bob texted me late at night on the East Coast. And he was the one who made me aware of the news. Let's just say we were elated. OK. Do we know anything about the financial specifics of the deal?

We do. Let's just say that we are advantageous to the Mets. Yeah, I bet. Two years, $54 million, $30 for the first year, and $24 if he opts in. Opt out after the first year? I don't know. You want me to keep going?

We could get really down in the nitty gritty. How is that advantageous to the Mets? Because it's short term. Okay. Yeah, he's already 30, so. I just, I mean. He's going down, you know? He's going down.

At this point, does that make you feel bad? Like you're getting there. Well, I'm not trying to hit 99 mile an hour fastballs. I'm just cutting pro tool sessions, you know? I mean, listen. My eyes and ears still work. We're creeping closer. Do you know what I mean? I know. I'm just cutting pro-tool sessions, you know? Okay. That's, I mean, listen, I just, I like... My eyes and ears still work. We're creeping closer. Do you know what I mean?

I know. I'm aware. I feel it. Ever since you crossed 40, you just want to drag everyone with you. I see what you're doing. Yeah, I do. I, uh, so companion anyhow, shout out to Steve Cohen. Appreciate what you're doing for the meds.

It really just changed my life, if I'm being totally honest. Uh, I really like this movie. This is a perfect February movie in many ways, which is it's like a really tidy 90-minute genre movie that is fun and feels very informed by movie history and gets great performances out of its two leads It's a tough movie to talk about without ruining It did Really well at the box office and is probably going to continue to do pretty well So some people have seen it but the thing is is they made a choice here in the marketing of the movie.

So I wanted to ask you, did you know about the sort of first act premise twist of the film? I either did or I have seen a lot of movies and it was like immediately apparent. How immediate? How quickly did you, because this is an interesting part of the dynamic of the movie. So full disclosure, I saw this one at an AMC,

so I timed my arrival a little bit later in order to... Listen, I'm a woman on a schedule. And then I got there a little bit late, and then I was like, did I miss the part of the movie where they explicitly say what's going on because it's very apparent to me sitting down and watching it. And I would say I got there as they are driving

to the vacation. Okay, so what you missed at the beginning of this film is something that we see later in the film is the meet-cute between the Jack Quaid character and the Sophie Thatcher character. And then I think it goes right into them, like, packing for the trip and then going. Yeah.

I saw this movie some time ago. I saw it before there was a trailer. I think they're just a poster. So I didn't know anything. If you don't want to hear anything about Companion, a movie that's been out for seven days now and also has a trailer that reveals what we're going to talk about, turn off the show, I guess.

I don't really know how to talk about this stuff anymore. So here's where I don't know, like, spoiler, spoiler, don't at us. Spoiler warning. I don't know whether, like, I think it must even be in like the one line ticket description or something. I think this- Like in the tagline.

Yeah, this info is like so widely available that I must have somehow seen or known or even like a description of it. Like, I mean, even the title sort of, you know? Which is okay. I didn't diminish that reveal for me, but anyway. Yeah, I think the point is that that reveal is actually not supposed to be super,

I mean, it's important to the story, but it's not supposed to be some Shyamalan twist of some kind. Anyhow, as you said, spoiler warning, it turns out that the Thatcher character is in fact a robot who has been programmed to be a girlfriend, companion, sex object for the Jack Quaid character.

Right. You could tell basically on the car ride. Yeah, instantly, yeah. But then more specifically once they get into the house and we're seeing the dynamic in the room and how people are talking to and about each other. For example, how the Megan Surrey character treats Sophie, the actress character.

You're like, this is just weird. Something is off here. Yeah, and then even there's like in that conversation, they're talking about power dynamics and relationships and the Sophie Thatcher character says, I'm not built that way. And I was like, you know, and I was like, oh, so do we already know?

Yes. And like, we don't, but it is, it is like flashing it to you intentionally, really, really brightly. Yes, and so the film kind of like tricks you a little bit. It is sort of a robot ex machina, you know, exploration of ethics in having a robot that you have sex with, but not really. But like thankfully, not really.

Yeah, it's really more of like a comedy thriller, I would say. It's like, you know, Drew has talked a lot about the Cohn brothers, and I think it's like a little bit Raising Arizona, you know. It's like, you know, Drew has talked a lot about the Cohn brothers, and I think it's like a little bit Raising Arizona, you know, it's a little bit The Terminator at times. Sure. In terms of the Yeah, you're rooting for-

I mean, hunt and destroy quality, and you're rooting for a robot. And you're rooting for a robot. No, what I liked about it is that it's clever, and it's like, it definitely has some ideas about, like robots, or, you know, power dynamics and relationships or a generation of young men or whatever. But it's just like, clearly someone had like tiny thoughts about it as it was writing a

very entertaining movie. And it's not like banging you over the head with any sort of like intense metaphor or obvious like moral lesson. It's just kind of smart and then is primarily interested in being entertaining and fun. Yes, it's not a treat to use on ethics in robotics or anything like that. And I think there are a lot of very funny specific choices that are made. For example, the revelation that Sophie's character is a rental and has not been bought.

And like, you could imagine in an economy like this that a sex robot could be rented in return, which is super disgusting. But it's the kind of thing that would happen. And like the world building or the robot building of how she's controlled and like the choices that are made or that can be programmed. Obviously the intelligence one is very funny.

Yes. And very well communicated. You don't get bogged down in any of it, but how this robot operates does become intentional to the story. So I thought it was very deaf writing. Yeah, and even though the film has a slightly silly tone, I felt like the actual specifics of the product and the way that the product is sort of like delivered

and operates is feels real and absurd at the same time. Like it felt very grounded and kind of credible in an upsetting way. And we know that there is probably a probably a buying base for this product. You know, if this hit the market, some Jack Quades might be interested in it. And then, you know, the film kind of... There are more reveals and more... There's one particularly very fun one.

A really, really good one. And I did not, you know, I didn't see it coming. We won't spoil that one for anybody listening at home. It's really fun. Really, really good one. And I did not, you know, I didn't see it coming. I didn't see it coming either. Yes. We won't spoil that one for anybody listening at home. It's really fun. It's just like a great genre movie for a February release. I hope more people get a chance to see it. And you can, we should listen to Drew talk about it too, because he, the like, movies having ideas

but not being obsessed with their ideas is interesting coming out of the brutalist discussions we've been having, you know? Or it's like, this is about something, but it's not only about something. Yes. It's about having fun too. I'm really pro that.

Yes. I know you are. Like what, like what if we could have a nice time while also having brains? You know, we can have it all. What do you make of Sophie Thatcher? Does, does her flavor, uh, hit for you? Um, well, I mean, her flavor was playing a robot, so in this, and one who shifts in programming throughout the movie.

And so I thought she did a great job in that. I can't remember which one she was in Heretic, I'm sorry. Well, she was the seemingly slightly older, slightly more mature one. Obviously Chloe East, who's a little bit more sort of like buoyant and optimistic. Oh, right. Obviously Chloe East who's a little bit more sort of like buoyant and optimistic. Yes, exactly. And Sophie Thatcher.

And that I think is kind of her screen persona is like a little bit like taciturn but hardened. Okay. And very final girl. You know, she was in a movie called The Boogie Man where she's the final girl. She's really kind of like a Jamie Lee Curtis archetype I would say.

And she keeps getting cast and pursuing movies like this which I think is often a tried and true pathway to getting bigger and bigger parts in Hollywood these days. There's a bit of Anya Taylor Joy A little bit. About her in her, like, there's a reason she was cast as a robot.

Yes. Yeah, there's like kind of perfect imperfections though. She's like, doesn't have perfect teeth. She doesn't have like a perfect complexion, but she's obviously quite striking I like her a lot. I think she her skin is pretty good. One thing I've been noticing is I've been watching My high-definition television and 4k stuff like Severance for example. I've been watching Severance this season. Yeah excellent show Really like one of the first shows in a while where I'm really Literally never watch it continue. Anyhow

Just the number of pores that I'm seeing on people's faces is alarming. No, it's like we've gone too far. It's too far. And this is also my notes with like whatever's going on in these camera rooms. It's just kind of like we got to like, you know... Put some Vaseline on that lens. Technology is like not keeping up or technology is not working with dermatology. Oh, interesting. Yeah. You know, or technology is not working with dermatology. Oh, interesting, yeah.

You know, and technology is not working with just like people trying to live their lives. I was noticing it with both Adam Scott and Britt Lauer on Severance too, just like very attractive, successful actors, and I was like, I can really see like all the little imperfections on their face, it's just a strange time. I was talking to a producer friend, my friend Colin, who produced Opus.

And I was bugging him about a question I've had forever on film sets, which is like, is there a like standby dermatologist? Like what happens if someone gets a zit? Mm-hmm. What do you say? And he was like, he was like, a hair and makeup can like usually handle it, you know? You know, and like maybe, so he was like, he was like, a hair and makeup can usually handle it, you know? And maybe, so he was like, no, there's no one standing around with a cortisol shot, which is kind of what I dreamed.

When I become rich and famous, and when I'm Julia Roberts, I will have a derm on my rider. But listen, when it's coming, what are you supposed to do? But he was like, I, no, no, most of the time hair and makeup could deal with it. So I think that's what you would do.

But I think with the new cameras, like I, you know, I don't know if that's true anymore. Like there, we're getting too good. So... Depends on who's shooting it. I find the better the filmmaker, the more exposure on the blemishes, which is a tricky thing.

That's the thing about Severance, it's blemishes, which is a tricky thing. That's the thing about Severance, it's really well made, so you can see things clearly. Right, and I guess there is also some, like, you know, maybe the filmmaker wants the blemish to be out there. At some point it becomes a continuity issue, which is what my question is. But, I, like, I agree with you. You know, everyone, you know, we need to think about people and skincare and life a little bit more.

Speaking of blemishes and imperfections, let's talk about your cordially invited. What a segue. Thank you. That was really good. This is the new film directed by former guest of the show, Nicholas Stoller, who's, you know, directed a lot of funny comedies over the years for getting star at Marshall, most recently Bros. It's streaming on Amazon Prime Video right now. It stars Will Ferrell and Reese

Witherspoon. They're the very big movie stars. Geraldine Viswanathan and Meredith Hagner and Sylvia Weston are also in this movie. It's about two families who have double booked an island destination vacation for their weddings for Will Ferrell, his daughter, for Reese Witherspoon, her sister. And what happens when these two crazy families get stuck on an island together when they've double booked? Will anybody fall in love, maybe? And even though opposites are attracting, I don't know.

We'll find out. This movie has all of the component pieces to be good. Right. And yet. Do they need to be? Here's the thing. That's what it is. It has all of the component pieces to be good. I. And yet. Do they need to be, here's the thing, that's what it is. It has all of the component pieces to be good. I'm a good director, good movie stars.

And it even has- Funny idea. And it even has many good component pieces. Yes, some of it is entertaining. And it just, it's like mismatched together. And it does really feel like the Reese Witherspoon character and family were like boiling over here as one idea for a movie. And then the Will Ferrell and Geraldine Vespanathan character

were like boiling over here. And it was like, what if we just had them fall in love at a wedding? You know, it's like, we had all of the things. Almost like two scripts came together. Yes, that's kind of what I think. It's a real, they forgot to put the yeast in the bread situation.

Like this just didn't rise. Well, yes, I think so. I think it's smushed together. I think that Will Ferrell and Reese Witherspoon are independently very funny and good in these independent movies. Doing their archetypal thing and doing it well. My question for you about that, because I agree with you,

is are we just too familiar with this archetypal performance from these movie stars? Like, that's obviously a feature of being a movie star, is like you have a certain kind of on-screen persona. You know, with Will Ferrell, it's like the sort of daffy, dopey, overly sincere, kind of dim, but ultimately good-natured guy. Right.

With Reese, it's like, kind of like hard exterior, go get her, go get him, you know, woman in charge. But deep down, there's a sweetness. Sweetness and a softness. You need to get past the exterior. No, I thought that that was the good part. I think the problem is that ultimately, you're supposed to, spoiler alert,

they're supposed to find love. And like, no, they're supposed to find love. And like, no, they don't, the characters don't make any sense. Reese Witherspoon and Will Ferrell don't have any sort of chemistry, respectfully. Like they are funny, isolated. And I like, I laughed several times throughout this movie.

Also, you know, Reese Witherspoon is supposed to be, they're being honest that they shot in Atlanta. And so this is all like, Reese Witherspoon is from outside Atlanta and there's a Southern family. Did you relate it all to the Southern family? Yeah, I sure did. I was like, this is good.

Yeah. And even like the way- I thought Celia Weston in particular, who often plays this part, but she's really good at this movie. Yeah, that was really funny. And when Reese Witherspoon is like talking about her, and Celia Weston is like, I just never understand a single thing you say.

And I was like, wow. And then all the names and the three names and the families. The Garden and Gun joke, that is a real magazine. That is genuinely funny. So a lot of that stuff was very good. I mean, Will Ferrell and Geraldine Zwanathan like doing Islands in the Stream, like that was funny. Yeah, they had great chemistry too, as father and daughter. Like all of the bits were like pretty funny. And then the actual, and even like the wedding

stuff of the dueling weddings and like I'm gonna you know delay the the my ceremony as long as possible by reading Dr. Seuss and then there's like funny funny stuff yes but like the basic we just smooshed all the the basic structure of the movie just didn't make any sense. Yeah. Well the love's like the the rom-com part of it. Yeah the romance doesn't work as well and we're talking about this because this is Yeah. Well, the love's like the rom-com part of it. The romance. Yeah. Yeah. The romance doesn't work as well.

And we're talking about this because this is basically like a slapsticky Will Ferrell, Reese Witherspoon's like Stoller set piece comedy movie. But it is about love and it needs love to make sense. And of course, the people who are like getting married or maybe not the right people to be getting married, but the people who hate each other, the people who really love each other, tried and true convention in Hollywood romantic storytelling. But, um, I... It raises some funny questions about, like,

is it better for a streaming movie to have big stars? And then you're like, that was a cool time passer with characters, like, figures who I like, or is it better if a streaming movie is, like, maybe a little bit better but not as relying on the fame and the Recognizability as much because we kind of get we're getting two versions of that right now We're like oftentimes the most popular movie on Netflix. It'll start two people who are those yeah

And it's like well they were on the outer outer banks for three seasons, right? that's why this is the most popular movie in America and then there's this where I'm like in 24 of the last 25 years this movie would have opened in July and made $78 million? Right. Also maybe would have been noted in a way that made slightly more sense. Very good point. Um...

You once again, you are standing up for the executives. Thank you very much. These creatives have run amok in Hollywood. I'm just like, you know, some of this just didn't make sense with respect, but that's okay in Hollywood. I'm just like, you know, some of this just didn't make sense with respect, but that's okay. Yeah. I...

prefer to have the stars doing funny stuff and being themselves, even if it doesn't come together, because the randos in... Like, the randos don't cut it often in movies. I tend to agree. And I find myself especially watching all of this, often aimed at women, streamer content where they haven't spent enough money

on production and costume and whatever design. So nothing looks as good as it should. And I'm just like, where did they find these people? And particularly these men. And this might just be like a me and a Gen Z issue where like, once again, like children wake up, you know? But just like, wake up. Like you are all just like walking around asleep.

Um... But there's just like a real lack of charisma and... We have a lot of listeners who are part of that generation. And those people are on our frequency, and they're dialed in, and I love you guys. And I would say to you, just like gently nudge your brethren. Have one cup of coffee. Yeah. It's okay to have one cup.

Or don't, and then don't be a performer. You know? Like, both are fine. Yeah. But I, so all the randos, like the people that they keep finding just like are, are not there. And I noticed the cost savings, shall we put it that way? Yeah. This is obviously- Companion actually does this, like, Companion has a twist on this in a way where for a long time, I was, you know, I was you know I was like where are we finding these people who are these people yeah yeah and and they're the right people there's a smart twist on that I completely agree there's actually an inside joke about that

that I could explain to you but would I would spoil part of the movie that I would tell you off mic that makes it even funnier honestly great um so yeah, this movie I thought was really deeply mediocre, but I didn't hate it. And I think I tend to hate a lot of the Straight to Streamer movies where I'm like, this is just a real waste of time. And this was a time passer. So, it's not so bad. Um...

I chuckled. You know? I have a big relationship to Will Ferrell though. And I just want more for him. And he did something very funny this week. He basically said, F you to the Academy for nominating Will and Harper, which was very amusing. And he's just a significant part of my adult life as a movie fan. And, you know, this is okay.

It's okay. Reese Witherspoon is also important to me. I guess this is like slightly better than some things she's done. So... Better or worse than The Morning show, uh, way better. Okay. And, but like not ultimately as like avant-garde as I think that the morning show unintentionally is, you know, like we are reaching new levels in something

over at the morning show and I won't be watching. I'll keep that. Yeah. For what Severance is to you is the morning show and... I won't be watching. I'll keep letting you know. Yeah, for what Severance is to you is the morning show to me. Um, but this was more enjoyable. I think she looks fantastic, by the way. I was literally like Reese Witherspoon, you know, like age, you know, workout, whatever.

Like, what do I have to do? It's called the substance, Amanda. Right. Well, she looked, no, but she looks, you know, like, appropriate, like, she looks her age-ish, but like the best version of her age. Sure, she's a multi-multi-millionaire. I do understand that.

I understand she has access to treatments and resources that I do not. Some dark arts perhaps. She's using them prudently. She looks great. Yeah. Neither of us saw the movie Love Hurts, which is another movie that technically qualifies for this,

but I had just been told by a great number of people that it's not very good. Right. And I'm looking at their reviews. This is the new film starring Kiwi Kwan and Ariana DeBose that comes to us from 87 North, which is the company that brought us The Fall Guy and John Wick.

And I guess 87 North didn't make John Wick, but David Leitch, who is the founder of that company with his wife, and they made Nobody, and they made Atomic Blonde. And so, you know, you know there's going to be some really good hand-to-hand combat and fight choreography in this movie. Apparently, the story of the movie itself, the actual plot,

is barely there. So we're not covering Love Hurts. We are covering Love Me. I went to see it. You told me to. I can't believe you went to see it. You told me to go see it. I appreciate it. Like I said, I have obligations and I meet them in order to provide dentistry for my children. Great. I'm happy to hear it's not your passion for cinema or your friendship with me.

Only one of them has teeth right now. But you know, we're any day now, we're hoping he's doing his best. Any day now. One day, the one who has teeth will lose those teeth. Sure, I know. And then more will grow back. So I'm like, why do we really have to take him to the dentist right now?

But that's another thing about how I think dentistry is a scam, at least preventative. Dangerously into the black-pilled zone as soon as you start talking. You especially should not talk about dentistry. You have a party of one in your mind about this. I'm just like, if there is something wrong and there is pain, you can help me,

but I'm not gonna just go to have you use an electric toothbrush on me and insult me, you know? And then charge me money for it. This is one of those like, Amanda's so crazy. I love her opinions where it's like, no, people like, go to England. That's my take on this. See what happens.

All right, love me. I saw this movie 12 months ago at Sundance. I'll be remembering it off the top of my head based on that viewing because I will not be watching it a second time. It's written and directed by Sam and Andy Zuccaro. One of the biggest reasons why I think it's worth discussing here is that it's our Steven Yeun and Kristen Stewart.

Yes, it does. Two of the most interesting why I think it's worth discussing here is that it's our Steven Yeun and Kristen Stewart. Yes, it does. Two of the most interesting, exciting, I don't know, not quite young actors, but successful, interesting actors. There's no need to be rude. Well, you're trying to drag the 30-year-olds over the line with you. How old are they? 37? You know what? It's like the grown-ups are talking. I need the children to just sit and, you know, wait.

Um, they don't play humans in this movie. Well, I mean, that's the question, isn't it, Sean? Thank you, Amanda. That is the question. They play a buoy and a satellite. I'm trying to be productive. I'm trying to not be like... It's okay to hate the movie. I want to talk about it. No. I was, I found it very irritating. It is very irritating. I'm with you on this.

They play a buoy and a satellite in a post-apocalyptic world and that they are a sort of artificial intelligence that is able to exist in a world where there are no humans. And they build a bond in this desiccated world. And they learn what life was like on Earth together. Because I guess the internet has documented everything and so they can read about it and watch videos and they eventually cloud is still alive the cloud is alive right which is why

you should put everything in the cloud so that one day a buoy can learn about you and then come to represent you in a love affair with a satellite that looks and acts like zach this is think about the possibilities here sign up for the cloud okay sign up Face ID. No, I have to get a new phone, but I'm like, am I gonna be able to just use a passcode still? I don't think so. I honestly didn't go to the store because I was like, they're gonna try

to put all this bullshit on my phone and I don't want it. Okay, well good luck. But I'm running out of storage. Yeah, hard to believe. Good luck to you. This movie is incredibly bold, takes a lot of chances in how it tells its story. I think it features actually two kind of interesting

and very odd performances from the stars, because they're trying to meet the moment of the big ideas of the movie, which is sort of like, what is consciousness, what is existence, and what is love? What is a relationship? What does it mean to be connected to someone or something? All of which I think is like rich material for a movie. And yet I did agree with you.

I found this to be quite annoying. Well, one problem with it is that for, well, a couple of things. For half the movie, they're, they're voice performances and that is difficult. And especially this type of sort of like evolving performance because this buoy and this satellite are learning how to be human in real time. So there are shades to what they're doing. And Steven Yen and Kristen Stewart are really good at that

and really good at acting. But you still only get to see these two great actors for like 40 minutes. The rest of the time, there is sort of like an animated fake YouTuber style. And then, you know, the way that they are learning, quote, how to be human is from leftover social media. So then for a while it becomes this sort of like

half-baked like treatise on what is social media and what does it mean to us. And how do we express ourselves and like, look at these babies laughing. That was really cute. I liked it when the babies were laughing. And it's one of those things that is a continuing problem in movies that try to say something profound about social media, which is that the social media itself is more profound than whatever you have to say about it

in your other movie. Like, it's not insightful and it's just sort of annoying watching your montage. Yeah, it's interesting too that both of these movies, this movie and Companion are both AI movies, but they're not movies at all about the evils or dangers of AI. Right.

In fact, they have a kind of empathy for AI, at least the way that they're framed in the story. And they're not meant to be taken, you know, seriously. It's not like this is not the representative point of view of the filmmakers. But I wonder if these movies were made in different times, if they would have a different energy around some of these ideas. It's funny that, you know, while this has become such a hot debated topic in Hollywood in particular over the last 18 months, that these two movies have hit and they're sort

of like, maybe this robot is the hero. You know, maybe this robot is more decent than the corroded soul of this beta cuck or of this planet that has been abandoned by humanity because they destroyed it. Just notable aspects of it. Love Me, I think, was ultimately not very successful. Yeah, I mean, I didn't really take away anything

about social media, the world at large, or like love, I guess, besides like, I don't know, like what was I supposed to learn about what it means to be human? I think that there was a couple things in their performance when things are kind of falling apart for them that felt more like a classic 70s movie about like the difficulties of a relationship

that I thought were kind of interesting. I would have liked more of that. But first of all, it was very sexist, because the Steven Yeun character is just the person who can build a nice world and is like, I know what water is. And Kristen Stewart is then finally like, yeah, isn't water amazing?

But she just has to be chastised and to, you know. Go off, Queen. Well, I mean, if you want me to like learn something from the movie, that's what I'm learning, right? Is that like, only the man like can, knows how to live a pure life that can like, find water or whatever. Absolutely.

So, that sucked. I'll tell you quickly about Heart Eyes, which I did see, which also fits the bill here. Heart Eyes is, I guess, the horror movie of this month. A lot of examples of these kinds of movies. We got an action movie, we've got kind of a sci-fi thriller. Everybody loves a tie-in. We've got to sell this stuff. I don't remember having multiple tree movies for Arbor Day.

You know, like, this is... What is it about Valentine's Day? Well, you do, though. You guys really celebrate the holidays in your house. We do. You know, because it's like you just gotta have something to orient around. Yeah. And I remember Eileen explaining that to me. Like we still have the leprechaun that you guys got us for St. Patrick's Day.

You're welcome. Like several years ago. Even though I don't respect St. Patrick's Day. That's between you and your people. Yeah. And I just... Well, that's the problem. It's the people who are not my people.

I just showed up... Who are making a mockery. I just showed up with some cupcakes and took home a stuffed lepre Oh, that's the problem. It's the people who are not my people. I just showed up... Who are making a mockery. I just showed up with some cupcakes and took home a stuffed leprechaun that Knox still likes. But we are celebrating that because, you know, it's like gives your kids something to look forward to. It does. And all human brains are like that, not just children.

You're right. I would not recommend any children watch Heart Eyes, which is... Okay. Look at you. You will not be just moved from the track. Undeterred. No. You can not be just moved from the track. Undeterred. No, you can't break me. This is why this works. This is why this works. You know, I am... I can only go in one direction and you can't go in any direction. Uh, Heart Eyes is a horror movie directed by Josh Rubin.

He's a pretty talented horror filmmaker. He's made a couple of movies, Um, Scare Me and Werewolves Within. Stars Olivia Holt, who I'd never seen before, but I think was also on one of those Netflix or Amazon series. And Mason Gooding, who you may recall from the recent Scream reboot movies. Jordana Brewster makes an appearance in this movie. Devon Sawa.

Disney Channel. Disney Channel, okay. Um... Kicking it. Disney Channel original movie Girl vs. Monster. And Disney Channel original series, I Didn't do it. I didn't do it. Yeah. Interesting.

That was also OJ Simpson's biopic. She was on Runaways. Was that a, that was like an MCU thing? Yes, soft MCU. It was like on Freeform. OK. She's also a singer, and she's had some voice roles. Interesting.

She's a pretty good lead in this movie, which is like, I think a perfectly adequate slasher with a sense of humor about a crazy killer. I love a holiday themed slasher movie. You know, we talked a lot about them with Eli Roth back when he was on the show for Thanksgiving. This is a tried and true format. In this case, Mason Gooding and Olivia Holt play co-workers

who are mistaken for lovers by this crazed killer. And then he... So it's like a kiss cam situation. Yes, yes. Well, I think they kiss, I think the premise is they kiss because she runs into her ex, so she's like, kiss me so I can make him jealous. Oh, sure, classic.

And then that leads to shenanigans. And there's like a little bit of rom-cominess to this movie. Great. Plus people getting stabbed in the head with a knife. That sounds cool. Which for me is lovely. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Something I enjoy seeing at the cinema. And I thought this movie was pretty good. Great. That's pretty much all I have to say about it. I mean, it's, oh, Devin Sawa's in this? He is. Wow. Who is also, obviously, I'm sure, lives in your heart forever. Yeah, hugely important.

Now and then and Casper the friendly ghost. Yes. Like, if you know, you know. I think also his work in, you know, Final Destination and a lot of other, the Stan video. I'm sure that's great. You know, the M&M video of Stan. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that is really important. Obviously, he's an icon and it's nice to see him in this movie.

Jordana Brewster, she appears in the worst movies ever made. The Fast and Furious franchise. Fast Five and Three. You couldn't even get it out. You couldn't even get the franchise out because you don't believe it. You don't believe it's the worst franchise ever made. It destroyed movie culture. It is literally, because we didn't have to do

nine versions of those kinds of movies. You want to do it for the interconnected universe is fine. Fast, fucking terrible. They dragged the safe. The Rock Punches Vin Diesel. I don't know what else to tell you, dude. Yeah, I agree. They dragged the safe. You know, the rock punches Vin Diesel. I don't know what else to tell you, dude. Yeah, don't tell me anything else. Okay.

Here's what I'll tell you about. Garbage love. There we go. You found it. I want some sort of like, like bell or thing, you know, like every time you nail it, you can just be like, ding! Yeah, something to think about in post-year, guys. You know, we can just like start cutting, yeah. Can we get a chiron here? It's Yeah, it's something to think about in post-care, guys. Yeah, we can just like start cutting. Can we get a chiron here? It's really, it's really fair gifted.

I got a college degree so that I could make a button for Sean to press when he does a good segue. No, I'd like to press it. We're all monkeys, guys. I want to press the button. That's what I'll do with my college degree. Uh, so you came up with the idea of doing garbage love for the steps, which I thought was a great idea.

And when you said it, here's what I thought. And tell me if you agree with this. I wrote down it's a specific brand of genre movie utilizing the framework of classic romance stories, but usually in a craven bid to get women to come see genre movies. Is that right? Yes.

This is a perfect definition because once you put it in that way and we made the list, I was like, it is crazy how many of these movies I've seen, even though they are, and you isolated three categories, like the horror romance, action love, and sci-fi, sci-fi sensuality, which is such a gross word. But it's like, wow. I mean, I've seen so many of these movies

because I will go and put up with this shit if you have, and I think it is a little bit like the romance framework, but it is also if you're doing a love story, then you gotta have two stars who you recognize. So, and two people. So you don't have a lot, it's fewer randos. Right, we wanna see them together. Right, it's like, it's fewer randos. Right, we want to see them together. Yeah, right. It's like, it's fewer good movies, but almost all of these films star people

who you would go to a movie to see. Interesting. So, do you have a preference out of horror, action, and science fiction that you prefer here? I think the action. I also think those are like the most successful. They're certainly the biggest of the movies. Yeah, and I guess the horror ones,

some of these are good in their own ways, but it's just kind of less of what I'm into. The action romance can, or you know, romantic action movie can tip into rom-com as well. It can be funnier because a lot of the action scenes can be the sort of winking action that you hate or you can build comedy around them. The sci-fi ones are like really, really, really ponderous.

They are. You know? And it's like. There are a lot of examples of this. There's so many. I barely scratched the surface on this, because it's always like, if you were stuck in space with only one other person, would you be able to discover love in an undiscoverable time? Yeah.

And like, some of the sci-fi stuff is like, well, we'll do like, fake deep philosophy for the boys and some like romance for the girls. Yeah. So there's also- Yeah, little Solaris, little Casablanca. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's, you know, there's probably also one, I think fantasy films don't qualify for this because they already have,

like the romance is baked into that genre. Yeah, so this is the number one example of this in the culture right now is Outlander, which is a TV show, a long-running TV show on stars. My father and his wife are huge fans of this show for reasons that are fascinating to me. This has nothing to do with anything my dad has ever liked, but I hear he's like, you caught up on Outlander?

I'm like, I'm served, not seen one minute of one episode. Uh, but those... And obviously, romantasy is a huge... It's like the category in fiction right now. That shit is so wild. Yes, it's so popular. But it hasn't... Are they gonna make like the dragon fucking movies?

Have they... Mallory and I were just talking about this. I think so. It's like oinks? Is that, but that's a different one. I mean, there's a lot of different like dragon fucking... But it hasn't really hit films. Right, well, you know.

Which is interesting. Because you think, that's a great place to tell these stories, not these janky TV budgets where they can only kind of sort of do some of the fantasy elements. Outlander is in pure fantasy. It I didn't, like, quite think fit, but there are a lot of historical dramas and, like, what I would describe as, like, dadcore movies that then do also fold in a romance in order to develop the character and or, I suspect, hold the attention. I will find you, love you, matter you. Exactly.

That's last of the Mohicans. Which one do you wanna talk about first? You like sci-fi the least. I think so. Well, it's not that I like it the least. It's just that like it gets so weird so fast. And you threw one here, like I genuinely laughed out loud

when I was reminded of the existence of this movie, which is called In Time, starring Justin Timberlake and Amanda Seyfried. I don't know anything. I mean, I saw this movie in the theaters. Like, and it's shot in some sort of like boring, futuristic, you know, it's like a steampunk era movie and there are a lot of watches

and like otherwise I don't understand, I don't remember the conceit. The conceit is that time is currency and that you have a certain amount of time to live and that that is represented on your forearm, your wrist. Yeah. And the Justin Timberlake character is constantly trying to buy more time to stay alive.

I don't remember much more. It's notable because it's written and directed by Andrew Nicol, who also wrote and directed Gattaca. And he is one of the classicists of sci-fi sensuality. He's done a lot of different kinds of movies, but those two movies to me represent like the absolute heart of like, do you wanna go see a romance between Ethan Hawke and Uma Thurman and also learn about the futuristic devastation?

One is a cool genre movie and one is garbage love. You know? In time is garbage. Gattaca is cool. In time stinks. Yeah. So that is part of it. For garbage purposes. Right. As soon as you said in time, I thought of a contemporaneous film, The Adjustment Bureau, which again, all I remember,

so it was Emily Blunt, Matt Damon, John Slattery, and they wear hats for like time travel. And they're adjusting, are they like insurance people in the future? I don't really know, but at some point, John Slattery is like chasing Matt Damon and Emily Blunt with hats and they are in love and they have to like get away to save the world.

Matt Damon's character learns that he is facing the powerful agents of capital F fate itself and glimpsing the future laid out for him must either accept a predetermined path That does not include the ballerina Elise played by Emily Blunt or else defy capital F fate to be with her crazy movie absolutely crazy movie absolutely going in the garbage Dan and Emily Blunt, like, at 2011 or something? Like, they were really powerful.

At the absolute height of the Daymond, like, this guy does not miss. Like, every movie he makes rocks. And he made the Adjustment Bureau, which isn't bad. But it's not good. It's not good. How do you feel about About Time? Which one is that?

That's the Donald Gleason and Rachel McAdams, the Richard Curtis movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Man, did I cry. But Rachel McAdams is also in The Time Traveler's Wife. She is, yes. Yes, okay. So it's- Someone should've stepped in

and done something about that because how can you possibly keep these movies straight? I don't know. I absolutely wept during About Time, but was like really mad about it. Okay. Can you remember the premise of the movie? So Bill Nighy's in it.

Someone's dying and goes back to like see their family, but they know they're dying, but they're like reliving their life as if they're like trying to give more time or something. Mm-hmm. So it's like, I remember it being like very grounded time travel. Yes. And very like sentimental family. And Richard Curtis is a very talented filmmaker,

especially at just like manipulating your emotions and making you cry over complete bullshit, which is like what love actually is and is also, love actually is like a different, I guess it's not really romantic comedy, but I guess it would be garbage rom-com. More of a crime film to me. Like a crime against humanity. I cry every time. Yeah, I'll bet you do.

So, you know, I'm just like, I'm like really angry about it, but what are you gonna do? They start doing the beach sports. One of the worst things in that movie is that there's like a super hot woman that works with Hugh Grant, and they're like, she's too fat. And it's like, this woman is hot. Yes.

Like, what are we talking about? Well, I mean, it's fine, because they end up, he does, the prime minister of England, does end up manipulating foreign policy in order to make out with his assistant at the children's Christmas pageant in which Emma Thompson's child plays the second lobster. I've seen this movie so many times.

I can't talk about love, actually, I can't on the pod. This is more than I even wanted to do. Emma Thompson crying to Joni Mitchell because she found out that Alan Rickman cheated on her with another assistant. Yeah. Like, just incredible acting. I don't have a segue.

I need you to get back on track, please. Richard Curtis, About Time. So I just remember that, you know, that you get it, you gotta go back in time because you love your family or something um It's not nice Donald Gleason's father Bill Nighy tells him I think at near the end of his life that the men in this family can time travel They can go back and they can make changes

That's the premise and so in doing so he goes back and he falls in love with a girl who's played by Rachel McAdams But that still doesn't mean that just because he has these powers he can control everything And so there are some realizations about okay fate destiny love the power of choice Okay, two great actors. Yeah, Richard Curtis real hit or miss for me personally some good ones some not so good ones Um, I like this one. I think it's pretty good I have really weird that it's 40 years after the time traveler's wife. I have not revisited it because I'm looking more for like, you know, blunt force sentimentality.

Okay. Um, then you just want to be told I am a woman staring at a man telling him. That is one of the best rom-coms of all time. Notting Hill is really important. Okay. Absolutely. Just fuck off. I did immediately think about Passengers

as soon as we said Carbon Love. This was my first thought. This is like one of the worst movies ever made. And everyone was sure that they just like had it locked down, right? And it's like Chris Pratt and Jennifer Lawrence are, again, I didn't Google any of these, so this is just fun me recapping what these movies are about.

They're astronauts or they're like, you know... Space travelers. Space travelers, they're going to like start new life on some planet or Mars or there's like, there's a greenhouse, so maybe they're just living on the station, I don't really remember. But they're supposed to be like, they're in cryo sleep or whatever for a while.

And is there like an accident? And so like someone wakes up and then he wakes her up. And then they're together, but like other bad things happen and they can't grow the garden or something. And I don't know. Yeah, first of all, retaining employment once again. You remember that garden, right? Yeah, the big nasty twist for anybody

who doesn't want 2014's passengers both for them is that he doesn't tell her that he woke her up. Oh. And he wasn't supposed to wake her up. Right, okay. And she didn't want that and so she gets mad at him because then they're doomed to a fate together and alone at the same time.

And then ultimately they come to learn that they do, in fact, love each other. These are two people with no chemistry. Yeah. I think this is like a really hot script. And honestly, on paper, I'm like, this rocks. This is what movies should be. Yeah.

You know, I think it was Morton Tilden was the director. He's coming off of the Benedict Cumberbatch movie about code breaking. What's that film called? The Imitation Game. The Imitation Game. That is a family holiday crowd pleaser. Okay, absolutely.

Whatever you say. One of the last remnants of the Harvey Weinstein era. Salute to you for shouting it out. Sorry that my in-laws and I both liked it. Okay. Passengers is in, I think about Time is in. I think Time Traveler's Wife is in. I think all these movies are just like... In Time and Adjustment Bureau have to be in.

In, you know, Gattaca, Vanilla Sky. These movies are a little too good for this, in my opinion. Right. Palm Springs you put on here. Too good. First of all, and also RomCom. But it's not garbage. It's just good. But it is the case of a RomCom sci-fi movie. I mean, it has existential... Yeah, but it is the case of a rom-com sci-fi movie. Yeah, but it... Because it's a Groundhog Day.

Sure, but I think Groundhog Day is also first a rom-com. And then... Oh, so you think if a movie is first a rom-com? I think that's its primary genre. Oh, I like that. Okay, that's a good call. Thank you. Do you ever see Seeking a Friend for the End of the World? Is that the Aubrey Plaza?

No, Keira Knightley. Oh, I did. And Steve Carell. Yes, I did. Yeah, not good. Not successful. No. But kind of in this zone. What's the Aubrey Plaza Mark Duplass one? Safety Not Guaranteed?

Yes. That's sort of... Jake Johnson as well. There's time traveling in that, right? There is, yes. That is like, that's the movie that got Colin Trevorrow the Jurassic franchise, that Jurassic World Trevorrow the Jurassic franchise. That Jurassic World film we were talking about earlier.

Right. Did he make that or he got fired from that and then made the Book of Henry? No, he made the first one. He got fired from Star Wars. Oh, okay. He was supposed to make, I think, the Rian Johnson Star Wars movie. The Last Jedi?

Or maybe the third film. Oh, okay. No, he was supposed to make Last Jedi? Or maybe the third film? Oh, okay. No, he was supposed to make The Rise of Skywalker. The third film, okay. Well, that turned out great, you know, so. They switched back to JJ there on that one. Anyhow, okay, let's pivot to action. Are Paul Muskell and Gracie Abrams still dating, Bobby?

Let's just have our Gen Z check in. I'm glad you asked. I'm not the man. I was just told yesterday that they are not by Magdalena, who we work with. Oh, okay. Well, now who's Gen Z? You know who Gracie Abrams is or isn't dating. Uh, there is a very specific reason for this

that I cannot reveal. Okay. Wow. Because it is related to work that should not be revealed, transpiring at the ringer. How's that for a TV? He's the segue king and he's the teaser king. Okay.

Um, love, action. Yeah. So... Should this be called love action instead of action love? Sure. Okay. Help me out here. Fall guy. But I like the fall guy, but I do, I know what you mean. It's got a little whiff of garbage. Yeah, but...

It's a little garbagey. I mean, the other examples, This Means War, Shotgun Wedding, which honestly is like another straight to Amazon, like Romcom with some elements that I chuckled at. Shout out Lenny Kravitz. Lost City, Ghosted. Oh, The Lost City, I forgot about that.

Big call, yeah, Ghosted stinks though. I won't even put it on any list. That movie stinks. But it was trying to do this. It was, it was. Good call. I think Mr. and Mrs. Smith is too good for this. But it was trying to do this. It was, it was. Good call. I think Mr. and Mrs. Smith is too good for this. Okay. The Lost City is a great call.

Okay. Because it's like definitely not bad. Yeah. Pretty entertaining. Yeah. Pretty janky. Yes. But, hit its marks. People liked it, they went to go see it. Big movie stars.

Premise is goofy, but good enough. Fall Guys is like right on the edge. Okay, I mean, like, we could do it. I think that this means War is Too Romcom. A terrible movie, but... Interesting. Okay. Um... Anything else more recent vintage that has these elements?

Because it feels like these movies in particular are kind of all riffing on lethal weapon, but they actually just replaced Danny Glover with a blonde lady. Right? Yeah. What was that? I mean, Back in Action is like the family version of this. It is. It is.

Also stinks. It does. It's not so much about love as it is about the nuclear family. But that's what they're iterating on that. You're right. It's a subset of that for sure. I, these movies are not right. It's a subset of that for sure. These movies are not good. It's tough.

I mean, the sick delight that Chris and I get out of, say, like, you know, trash special ops, where there's like a man with an earpiece is being told, like, kill, kill, kill. And we're like, fuck yes, kill that guy. I got, I was delighted in my own way by Fall Guy. Fall Guy was fun. Fall Guy, but also Lost City.

Yeah, these are fun. And even like, I mean, Shotgun Wedding is not going in, but I liked that they, the streaming, you know, for the streaming category, it was a pretty good version of that. Okay, okay, I like that. Now, now horror. Yeah, I mean, Twilight. Twilight is the most important movie in garbage love, I think.

Yes. Because as much as these movies have a huge fandom, like they're not good. They're not actually good. Twilight? The first one's good. Is it? Yeah, the Catherine Hardwick. Thank you. Thanks, Bob. I mean, it's like a teen, you know, romance. But there's a caveat, you know? Like, it's not... No, but it's like a teen romance. But there's your caveat. You know, like it's not.

No, but it's like good, listen, teens have feelings too. We don't always accept them at the table, you know? Cause the- Yeah, they gotta wake up, right? Exactly, they gotta wake up. Have a cup of coffee. They gotta listen to their elders. But you know-

The people who loved Twilight when they were teens are like 34 now, you know? This is not, we've come a long way. What are you talking about, bro? I'm not 34 yet. Well, not just you, you're not the only person. What year did Twilight come out? That's a good question. 2010?

2009? No, earlier than that. I think 2006? 2008. 2008. Yeah, I was like young. So 2008, yeah. If you were 18 when you saw Twilight, you're 34. Sure. Turning 35. Damn.

You know? Well, I mean, it's just that's like, sometimes that's a new box you got to check. Yeah, so if you're a 35 to 39, welcome. 35 year old man or woman looking at us movie podcasters and saying Twilight is deeply important to the American canon of cinema, to you I say no. In this context? Absolutely. Just so you know, we will have a now a new audio drop of you saying, Twilight is good, and Twilight is an important piece of this American canon.

Yep. Twilight is the most important movie. Twilight is deeply important to the American canon of cinema. Put it right alongside my litany of brilliant segues and me saying I'm the Reed Richards of the big picture. Right, but so here's my question, because Twilight is obviously one of the first things that I thought of. But aren't all vampire stories love stories? I think they're all sex stories.

Well, this is about sex too. And not being allowed to... Well... Well, it's about love, but also not being allowed to have sex and like really wanting it, which is... Also every vampire story that I understand. Well, maybe it's like Twilight 3 and 4. And she like becomes a vampire so they can fuck. What's like Breaking Dawn?

Remember when they were dropping like Bon Iver and Licky Lee on the soundtracks of these movies? These movies are insane. Dakota Vanning is like the Italian vampire queen. So crazy. Yeah, bro. What is that baby name? Renesmee. Yeah, and Michael Sheen is cooking in these movies.

Some of the worst CGI ever made for the baby. Renezme. Yeah. And Michael Sheen is cooking in these movies. Cooking. Some of the worst CGI ever made for the baby. It's so, so, so bad. It's worse than when they just went, when Clint was like, here's this doll, you know? It's worse that they actually tried to make the baby look real in the CGI. Hold on, hold on. Time out, time out, time out. Let's get this right.

So, she's... Renezme, the baby. Yeah. That was our first choice for Alice, but our next-door neighbor's baby is Renesmee. Is Renesmee the product? Is... Does Kristen Stewart have her... Is she conceived before or after Kristen Stewart, aka Bella, becomes a vampire? Before. Before.

And then Bella critically is dying as she's giving birth and they turn her. So then how do they arrange the having sex between a vampire and a human? Because the whole thing is he's so powerful that they can't buck because he would break her. This is when Stephenie Meyer really started punting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But so, but so how do they work around that? They go on like their honeymoon and they're like, Edward's like, I've been training for years to show self-restraint and yet still she comes out of it worse for wear is what I'll say. Oh, so it like gets a little kinky. Oh, interesting. Man, these books are fucked up.

And I was just in sixth grade art class, like, let me read another one, you know? Keep in comments, Stephanie Meyer. Okay, and so then, so she's like, so the child is conceived, she's like a special human vampire doll. And so is that why the werewolf can, like, picks her? Does he pick humans or does he pick vampires? Or you know what I mean?

No, that part is totally random, but that is why the Dakota Fanning, Volturi Italian clan are pissed because they're like, we don't like half human, half vampire, that's bad. Are there other examples in history? Yes, they just, they kill them. They get rid of them. Oh no. Okay, but so, but then the, then Taylor Lautner shows up and is like, I love this baby. I love this, I love this baby. I love this baby is my soulmate.

This is a baby. This CGI goblin that's a baby is my soulmate. So funny that we're like, here, this one choice the filmmaker made in The Brutalist is hugely problematic and completely destroys the film. Or is like, Renesmee is going to get married to a giant wolf man who's 40 years her senior, and it's one of the best movies ever. It's fucking stupid. It's just so... I will only defend the original Twilight.

It's a good movie. So Twilight is not in, but the all, like, 14 other Twilight movies are in. Oh, as garbage love? Yeah. Yeah, okay. But so anyway, you're... Breaking Dawn part one is the most garbage love. That's when they get married. Okay. That's when they have the needle drops, you know, that's...

Oh, okay. That's the one. All right, there we go, I accept that, but so... Breaking Dawn part one, they split it into two parts. What are we doing? We took all of Zach's young cousins to see every installment of this at Thanksgiving, because they released them at Thanksgiving.

Oh, God. Fun for the whole family. But I think then after they ended then, like, we got to take his cousins to see Lady Bird. So that was nice. I remember that too. One year we had to take them to see Allied, which does fit into garbage. Garbage espionage. Garbage, well, garbage, dead cinema, garbage. Oh, but is it garbage love, Allied?

Well, that is if we're doing, if there's like a world history one. Does the love come first in Allied? No, I don't think so. You think it's the spy stuff? Yeah. I think I'm with you. Underrated, actually, I revisited it when we did this Mecus episode.

By the way, here is streaming on Netflix right now. It was number one on Netflix for like a hot minute. I think it's good. I watched it again and I was like, this movie is good. I don't know what people were talking about. I have to watch it before. Honestly, it made me minute. I think it's good. I watched it again, and I was like, this movie is good. I don't know what people are talking about. Honestly, it made me cry. I think it's really deep and interesting.

I know people think it's like the worst movie of all time. I can't really argue with them, but I really do think it's good. OK, I don't recall thinking Allied was good. The revisit, when I was less worried about why it looked so modern and fake, it revealed some quality. OK. Just putting that out there. But I don't think it revealed some quality. Okay.

Just putting that out there. But I don't think it's garbage love. Yeah, because it's like cold, anyway, vampires. Cold now is not garbage love. No, but it's garbage. History. Yeah, and there is like a romance element. Garbage civil war is a great idea for the show.

I got to remember. Coming up next, Ryan Roscillo, Garbage Civil War. Let's do it. Yeah, like there's garbage World War II. Oh my God. There's, you know. Well, remember. Coming up next, Ryan Roscillo, Garbage Civil War. Let's do it. Yeah, there's Garbage World War II. Oh, my god. There's, you know. Well, one thing I want to do, I know you've got some garbage plans, too.

I really want to do Garbage Scorsese for The Alto Knights, the new Barry Levinson movie. Oh, right. Oh, my god. Like, have my dad come on. Scorsese ripoffs. He's excited about that film. Yeah.

I mean, it looks horrendous, but I'm into it. But my dad is just like, wow, Barry Levinson directed a movie with Bobby De Niro, who he still calls Bobby, doesn't know him. That sounds like me. That's something I might do. I got a lot of text messages about that. He could provide his defense of Amelia Perez.

I told him that I shared his opinion, and he was like, oh, I didn't know whether that. I was like, I'm not sure that was meant for public consumption. And I was like, well, dad. That know whether that, I was like, I'm not sure that was meant for public consumption. And I was like, well, dad. That's what it's like being in the blast radius. Your grandchildren need dentists. You can't reveal anything to Amanda now.

I'll just text her something with some vulnerability. And she's like, I will be reading these vulnerable thoughts aloud to the listeners of this show. Your dad's on Front Street. Who else can you reveal? My friend Molly's dad who loved Conclave. Well, yeah, that was dope. We agree with that.

Conclave is great. Okay, a couple other horror installments. But no, vampires. Are vampires eligible? I think they're all about sex. I think Twilight is a romance, ultimately. And I think vampire stories are often like weird metaphors for getting syphilis.

Yeah, okay. You know, where it's like the blood is traded and now you have my disease. It's like a different kind of a thing. Okay. You know, where it's like, where the blood is traded, and now you have my disease. You know, it's like a different kind of a thing. Okay. All right. Not all of them. There are some vampire love stories, of course. Right.

But for the most part, they're about something different. I mean, Twilight and vampire movies are also about, they're both about repression, but, you know. Interesting. Garbage repression? I mean, that's just... I would do really well with that one, that's just all American cinema. Uh, Warm Bodies, which is zombies.

Nick Holt, our guy. Our guy. And Teresa... what's her name? Come on. She's a good actress. Australian. Palmer. Teresa Palmer. Um, that movie's pretty good.

It's like maybe a little too good. Okay for garbage. Yeah, I Mean, this is the thing where? These are all genre movies that are so close to the Like there's the genre is in fact garbage love, you know, it's like not a bad version of it It is just the thing itself. Like all vampire, and even like a lot of zombie movies aren't, you know, you have Bones and all in here, which is I think like a good example of why are these people-

A good film, but inherently garbage? Well, it's abusing the genre, and it's like, here are two teens trying to find themselves and also they're zombies or vampires. Sort of it's vampires. I think you're right about that one because there is no movie that is about cannibals that is like high class.

Oh, cannibals, that's right. My movie is about cannibals. And Mark Rylance is here and he's really creepy. Deeply, very effective in that film. I put Fresh on this list, did you end up seeing this? No. Daisy Edgar Jones and Sebastian Stan. Oh, yeah. Oh.

Also a cannibal film. Really? Yeah. I'm pretty fun. People really wanted us to talk about that. I got a lot of... Did you? And Instagram Reels fed me a lot of content about the two of them when that movie was out.

And we were like, ooh, Fresh. It's okay. I saw it at Sundance, I think, in 2022. Very, as always, very fresh. It's okay. I saw it at Sundance, I think in 2022. Very, as always, very amusing. Sebastian Sand performance. Not sure days yet. Your Jones quite up to the task of that movie. Nevertheless, it's pretty good.

Okay. Life After Bath, which is directed by the late Jeff Bana who just died, Aubrey Plaza's husband, which is a movie that I really like, was one of the early A24 movies, if I recall correctly, but is also, I think a zombie romance movie where Aubrey Plaza dies and comes back from the dead and confronts her boyfriend and is like, yo, I'm back.

And he's like, I moved on with my life, which is kind of a funny movie that I really like. Again, maybe like not, you're right that they're kind of all garbage because of what they're doing, but they're also kind of good. Like this is the next step because every story has been told that we need to just keep smashing genres together

and making them make sense. So I don't know. The Twilight movies might just occupy the entire horror stretch for us. Okay. Is there how many? 14 you said? I mean, Bobby's the expert.

How many, Bob? Five. Four books, Bob? Five. Five. Four books. Fourth book was split into two. Got it. Got it. Oh. Right?

At least they haven't shamelessly gone back and made like a TV series out of it. You know, they're protecting that valuable idea for people like myself. Oh, that's gonna come. Oh, I know. When will that come? Who will be the stars? I don't know. The children who won't wake up, you know? Pfft.

Would you put Zombieland in this horror romance? It's more of a comedy. I think it's comedy first, horror second. But it is a romance. It is. It is. My beloveds, Jesse Eisenberg and Emma Stone. Really, really my faves. Mm-hmm. It's maybe Zombieland 2 Double Tap is probably a better fit. I see Eisenberg and Emma Stone. Really, really my faves.

Maybe Zombieland 2 Double Tap is probably a better fit. I could vibe with that. That is more garbage. It's garbaggio, but it's like pretty fun. And I wanna watch it again. If you put Double Tap on right now, I'd be like, yeah, let's watch it. I would watch the Adjustment Bureau again. If you put it on.

Anytime there's a movie where if I can scream into the other room, yo, can you get me a Miller Lite? Or you say, hon, can you please bring the Campari over? We're watching garbage. And that's not a diss. Amanda asks for the Campari from Zach. That's how she does it. That's actually not. No, I ask him to make me a proper drink. He's getting really into it.

He got me glasses. Yeah. They're very fancy. And then now Knox knows, he's like, will you have a drink in a fancy glass? Hey, mom, how's your crippling addiction going? Any other thoughts? This was fun. This is a good one. Yeah. Bob, any additions beyond Zombieland?

I don't think so. None that come to mind. I feel like I've made my piece for Twilight. Yes. Yeah. I don't think we hit, this is not the definitive list. I didn't have to go to the mat for that. Maybe listeners want to send some, because programming reminder, we're doing a mailbag on Monday on the show. Segway. Segway. Bang. Don't forget, email us. Big pick mailbag at Gmail. If you want to tell us some garbage love films that we forgot about, maybe even a subcategory.

Yeah, don't be rude. Amanda will be rude to you, but you don't have to be rude to us. And that'll be fun. And there's like a lot happening over the weekend. Yes. PGA's. Are you going?

No, CCA's are on Friday. The Critics' Choice Awards. The rescheduled CCA's. But those votes all happened before all the Emilia Perez stuff. Oh. So like they might win a bunch of awards. They can take it back. Yeah. So watch out for a weird CCAs on Friday. And then PGA's and DGA's on Saturday night. Yeah. You going? I'm not going. You have to enter a lottery to get a ticket to the PGA's.

And I've never entered the lottery. And you don't get a plus one? I think you might if you win the lottery. But it's like a thousands of people go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I assume they're like past apps and stuff, right? I believe so, yeah. So that would be funny. I'm not going.

I told Jack Sanders yesterday, I was like, Jack, the saddest part of me wants to go live on YouTube after the PGA's and DGA's and just be like, here's what happens, it's crazy. But I'll hold it for Monday. We can talk about that. It's a big weekend at my house. So I sort of have to.

Part of the reason why. Yeah, Sunday is like a pretty emotional roller coaster of a day. We got birthday party for the big guy. I'm hosting a child's birthday party. And then we got the Super Bowl for the other big guy. And the Eagles, who's your pick for the Super Bowl? Who are you taking?

The line's one and a half. In which direction? What does that mean? I don't know what that means. Chiefs by one and a half. I've worked here for almost 10 years. Chiefs favored by one and a half. Listen, we gotta protect the heart.

We gotta, I'm in a defensive position right now. I'm trying to make sure that everyone is okay and behaves. In your home, you mean? Yeah, and doesn't ruin my sweet son's birthday with disgraceful Philadelphia behavior. So I'm operating from like a cautious pessimism sort of thing but I would be thrilled if Jalen figures it out. Can he? I don't know. Bob, any picks for the Super Bowl? I'm not gonna make any picks for the Super Bowl. I'm not gonna make any picks for the Super Bowl.

It's not my area of expertise. Go listen to the Ringer NFL show if you'd like to hear more about that. Ringer gambling show. You can also hear a lovely feature from Justin Charity about Kendrick Lamar that I was producing. Kendrick Lamar is performing at the halftime show of the Super Bowl, which honestly is sick.

Just great. Can't remember the last time I was like, this is actually good. Like I like Rihanna and I like Beyonce and everything, but Kendrick is, come on. Well, like that's, all right, we're done. Kendrick's good too, but like Beyonce is Beyonce. Sure. I just, I feel like I get a lot of Beyonce. That was a good show.

It was good. I had no notes. Just, I'm excited about Kendrick. All right. My pick is the Jets will miss the playoffs again next year. That's the only pick I'm willing to make here. But I can't say the same for the Mets. Okay, let's go to my conversation with Drew Hancock now. Get groceries delivered across the GTA from real Canadian Superstore with PC Express. Shop online for super prices and super savings. Try it today and get up to $75 in PC Optimum Points. Visit superstore.ca to get started. Drew Hancock is here with his directorial debut companion. Thanks for being on the show.

Thank you for having me. Drew, there's just not a lot about you on the internet. Yeah. You've been working for a long time, but I love talking to first time directors on the show. Sure. I always ask, I say, like, what were the movies you obsessed over? How did you get interested in this world?

Like walk me through how you got interested in making movies. Yeah. So I'm originally from Omaha, Nebraska and the idea of working in entertainment never crossed my mind. Like I mean, my joke, my go-to joke is like my come from a family of like life, the board game occupations, like it's lawyers and accountants and teachers. And so I grew up in the nineties, you know, I'm 45 years old. Like success came very late for me.

But in the 90s was when I was like developing my taste for movies and I, you know, very vividly remember seeing Pulp Fiction for the first time. And it just blowing my goddamn mind. Like I remember being in the theater being like, I checked my watch to be like, I want there to be so much more of this movie. Like this is like, I didn't know you could do this.

I don't know if this was possible. And I was under 17 at the time and I look young now and I look like I was like 10 years old. And so me and my friends would go to different theaters to just want to see it as many times as possible. Like it turned down, like they'd be like, no, you're too young, you need a guardian. So we would drive around Omaha, like trying to see Pulp Fiction at like a third or fourth or fifth time.

And I was like bringing everyone down. I'm like, I'm so sorry, guys, that I looked this way. But that was like my, that was like my appetizer into like, oh my God, like, this is amazing. And then it was just a great time to grow up as a movie lover. Like I worked in movie theater in 1999. You know, that's just, you can't beat that. It's the best year, yeah. Every week it would be like Magnolia, it would be John Malkovich, The Matrix. It was just feasting on wonderful movies.

And yeah, so it never occurred to me that I could do this or that it was even attainable. It just felt like, LA felt like a walled city that I just couldn't breach and why try? But just by chance, I was on this track to do that. I was a very space cadet-y kid and I knew I needed to do something creative and the track I was on was like, I guess marketing, advertising, something like business oriented. And I went to college at Colorado state university just cause my cousin went there. I had no interest in education and, um, just by chance one summer took an elective. It was a, like a editing news packages, like, you know, tape to tape editing.

And it blew my fucking mind. Uh, like literally I was like, oh my God, like after the first class, like, what is this? Like, I need to saturate myself in this. And called my parents up. They're very supportive. I was like, I've been wasting my time. I need to do this. Can you, like, do you, will you support me? Just going down this path. And I have very supportive parents. They're like, yes, like like whatever you want to do.

Was it just the actual technological aspect of cutting that you got interested in specifically, but not like, I'm going to make movies? No, no, no, no, no. It just was like, being in that room and just never wanted to leave it and just being like enamored by the process of taking clips and you know, like putting them next to each other, you know, like scrubbing through the

footage. It was, you know, we wasn't even on an Avid or Final Cut Pro, which doesn't even exist anymore. That's how I'm dating myself now. But that was the moment that was me going like, okay, I don't care, you know, how this, how this happens. I don't care what I do within this universe, like whether it's like produced, direct, right. I knew I didn't want to be in front of the camera, but I just, I tried to cobble together a film school at a school that had no film program. And so we did have like Asian film studies classes.

And so I take one of those. And then I discovered like the basement of our library had this like one shelf of screenplays. And so I would like every day go down there and just read like movies I still haven't seen like the script for My Beautiful Laundrette. I've never seen it, but I read the script in college or like A Boy and His Dog, like all these scripts

that just were just mishmash of just really weird eclectic collection because they were just probably, I don't even know why they had them. Um, and yeah, and as soon as I graduated from college, I, I, I packed the car up and moved LA and I didn't know anyone here except for two guys that worked their job, their entertainment job was they boxed porn at the hustler warehouse.

And so that was an inn. That was no, that was no inn. Yeah. Um, but that's the couch. It could have been, yeah. Yeah, different career. And I just, I slept on their couch. And it's so funny. The night I slept on their couch,

they were filming Biker Boys, the movie with a Z. Yeah, sure. That was being filmed in the parking lot. And I was like, oh my God, they're making movies everywhere here. What a town, Hollywood. Like some like shitty apartment building I was being filmed in the parking lot and I was like, oh my God, they're making movies everywhere. Yeah. But. What a town, Hollywood. Yeah.

Like some like shitty apartment building on Lancasham in the valley. Yeah. And I just PA'd for a bit and, you know, bought a camera and just started screwing around and yeah. What, like roughly what year is it? Like 03, 04? Yeah.

03 I think is when I moved out here and so that that's where I would have PA'd for like the first two years, realized very quickly that if you're good at PA'ing, you're just going to get more PA jobs. And if you're, you know, you have to separate yourself by creating as much content as you possibly can. And so, but like, you know, scrounged together as much money as I could, bought a camera and then, you know, used my friends as actors. And there was this just, you know, there's a lot of luck involved in my, or good timing,

I should say, in my career. And finding this thing called Channel 101 that had just started right around the time when I was getting interested in like making comedy videos. And it was the perfect thing to discover. And for anyone that doesn't know what that is, it was like a monthly film festival where you would make a five-minute show, like a little mini TV show, screened in front of an audience and they would vote for their five favorites and then the next month if you got voted back you'd have to make a second episode. So it was like the best thing I could find because that, that really became my film school because I was just making as much, I was just

making as many comedy videos as I could. And then you would, you know, you would start get that instant gratification of what works and what doesn't work, which, you know, that's the closest I'll ever be to like a standup comedian. Like, you know, I wrote Companion four years ago. You know, I finished it three years ago. We shot it two years ago. I edited it one year ago.

And like now I get to see it kind of being released. But you know, Channel 101 was, you made, I would be making things that day and show it that night and you would just like the, you know, I've never done heroin, but I imagine it's very similar. It was like the high of, oh my God, I got to laugh. And it just, just euphoria like kicks in and you get this adrenaline rush and you're just like, oh, I can't wait for next month. And, and, and you learn, you know, that's where I learned everything about like, you

know, how smart an audience is and they'll, they'll feel when a joke is being reached for it's still, or something is like too sweaty and obvious. Or if you're coasting, if you're like, get really cocky and you're like, oh, I don't have to worry. Like you'll, you can, you have that audience share. Like it would, it was treated like a little like, little like, it was like the Nielsen's ratings or something. You just go, oh, I had 80% like last screening

and now I have 55%, I gotta step my game up. And meanwhile, like everyone else is your age and as hungry as you and you're making things and try to make them jealous and competing and you know, just getting better together. And I'm still friends with a lot of those guys. And was that, were you working on Yacht Rock at that time as part of that? Yacht Rock is part of that. Part of that, yeah.

So I just acted in that. Okay. I saw the documentary, it was fantastic. Yeah, thanks. Yeah. Yeah, I was wondering like what your role was on it because I saw your name attached to it, but were you just friends with those guys at that time

and appearing in the series? Yeah, you would just, yeah, you would hire each other. You would just ask, hey, would you be in my thing? Like JD Riznar was in a couple of my shows and I was in his, I think because Wade who played Hall and I played Oates, I think because we just, I was short and you know, like I had dark hair and yeah, that was really fun. I actually got to meet Hall and Oates because of that.

That was a really fun. How did they feel about your portrayal? Oates was great. Oates, the first thing he said to me was, you're too tall to play me. And that was like the best compliment I could ever get from anyone. I've never been called too tall.

Darryl, a little trickier reputation. Yeah, and you felt it. Yeah, I'll bet. It was, we went to the Hollywood Bowl, saw them, like however many years ago that was. And their manager was a big fan of us. And so we got to go backstage and meet them. And Oates was just like taking photos with us.

And he was really nice. And then he brought Hall over and Hall was like arms full. And Oates goes, he thinks you guys are making fun of us. I was like, oh, this is awkward. This is weird. Yeah. Hopefully the documentary assuaged some of Darryl's concerns. Oh, I doubt it.

He was on that Bill Marsh show. Oh, I doubt it. He was on that Bill Marsh show. He's just full of bitterness. So crazy, given the incredible success he's had. Anyway, we're down a rabbit hole that I led us to. So you're making work with Channel 101. Like, at that time, are you thinking, like, I gotta start writing screenplays to be making movies? Do you want to work in series television?

Like where did you see your career go? Well, I was still trying to figure out what I wanted to do within it. Like I loved editing. I love the editing process. I love the directing process. I love writing. Though I never really considered myself a writer, honestly. And then, yeah, like I said, like we were all at this stage where we were young and

starting out in Hungary and as some of us are getting successes, we're pulling each other up with us. And two of my friends created the show Blue Mountain State and that, you know, like they were looking for writers and they just asked me to write for it. And I was like, sure, I'll try it. And I still, writing was something I did, it always felt like I would either do it, be a director or an editor, the writing part of it was just like, oh, I would do it just to have content and I enjoyed it, but I never really thought of myself as a writer.

But working on Blue Mountain State, that really solidified, oh, like I really enjoy this part of it. I'm a very introverted person, so I like to be, you know, in my office, like by myself, like, you know, turn on, like dim the lights and just like be in my head. I love that. And that's, yeah, that was the beginning of my writing career. And I treated it, I think because I didn't really think of myself as a writer, I treated it as like an experiment. And that's why my IMDB is just kind of a shit show.

It's kind of just like every different genre, every different style, like kids' shows, animated shows, because I was like, oh yeah, I want to write everything. Much to the chagrin of my agent, who was like, you need to develop a brand. I'm like, I don't care about a brand. I want to learn. I want to write for a Nickelodeon Villain of the Week show. That sounds awesome. Let's do that.

I'll never get that opportunity again. And so I was just taking every job as a way to just to learn. Yeah. That's really interesting, because I, by looking at someone's IMDB, can usually suss out sort of like what their goals are, how they see themselves, where they're going with their career, what their brand is. Yeah.

And did not have any success with that with you. Yeah, good luck. So then, are you essentially doing that, like jumping from writing job to writing job over the course of the next 10 years? Yeah. Yeah. And doing, I mean, there's big gaps in my IMDB, but I'm like doing rewrites for movies. like jumping from writing job to writing job over the course of the next 10 years? Yeah, yeah. And doing, I mean, there's a lot of big gaps in my IMDB, but I'm like doing rewrites for movies,

and I developed a show for MTV that didn't go through. So, you know, so I'm working and I'm living comfortably. I have a low cost of living and I don't have a family, so I was, you know, like I could be choosy as far as like, I didn't have to take like the low hanging fruit. I could be a little picky based on like the jobs that excited me, but still I was not getting like what I really wanted to write.

Like I've always been a gigantic fan of genre movies specifically like horror, sci-fi, thriller, any of that. It needs like a robot or a serial killer or a ghost or something to get me excited. And I just wasn't getting those opportunities. And I was at a place in my career where this opportunity came. And I was like, oh my God, they're rebooting Are You Afraid of the Dark? I love that show as a kid, please. And begging the company like every day, please, let me, like, just give me a chance.

I'd like, like, this is what I want to do. This is a company that knew that I like was a decent writer. I never even got a meeting about it. And that forced me to sit down and go like, what, what's going on right here? Like people recognize that I can write, but I'm not being given the opportunities to do what I want to write. I just assumed if you're a good writer, you could write whatever you wanted. And that's not true.

You get put in a box and it's my own fault for not having the proof. You know, that was like the, took the pandemic for me to sit down and go, why are you creatively at least unfulfilled? And it's because I didn't have a writing sample that represented like the kinds of movies I liked. And it was, you know, it's because I didn't have a writing sample that represented like the kinds of movies I liked. And it was, you know, it's that 15 years of just bouncing around and not having a brand.

And, you know, I, but it was all learning. It was all great. I made tons of mistakes. And so when I actually sat down to write something that reflected my voice, you know, I had a, an amount of confidence to get through it because there's a lot of pain involved. There's a lot of questioning and in the process of staring at a blank page. You've seemed very centered and reflective on the arc of your career.

Self-awareness is, I think, one of the most important qualities for someone to have. I try to constantly take like the inventory of my life, like every couple of years to make sure like I'm where I want to be and what I need to do to get in that place. I recognize that I feel very centered, but up here now it's chaos. It's crazy. It is insecurities and imposter syndrome and craziness and yeah.

Well, you know, from, from an outsider's perspective, like I said, we have some friends in common, so I was aware of the fact that this movie was happening, but, um, I didn't know anything about you. And when I sat down to watch it was just incredibly impressed and would not have thought that it was a directorial debut or anything about you. And when I sat down to watch it, was just incredibly impressed and would not have thought that it was a directorial debut or anything like that. And, you know, in a lot of ways, it's like, it's a high concept genre studio movie.

And that's very unusual for an original to go right now. So like, maybe you can walk me through the arc of, I guess in COVID, you wrote this screenplay and it found its way into the right hands. Like, what was the, how did all of this happen essentially? Yeah. I mean, everyone's going to hate me because there's a lot, there's so much good luck involved in this, but you know, just don't forget about the 20 years

of Toilink, you know, and like. It's useful to hear that first. Yeah. Yeah. So it's, it's, it's, it's, you know, if, if you, if you're, you know, put the work in, you'll eventually get discovered. It took me a long time and I made a lot of mistakes, but I'm here now and I feel very grateful to be here talking about this movie. But yeah, so I wrote this movie and it came from a

place of like, you know, this might be the last thing I write that people read. You know, it could just, I would just think very realistically thinking. I'm in my 40s. I went to, I remember going to a Dodger game being like, is this it for me? Am I done? Like, and I had an editor friend, a very close friend who's an editor. I was like, should I talk to him about pivoting to editing? Like, I was very close to giving up. So I put all my eggs in this one basket, which was companion, and I think that's why there's so many tones within it.

Because I was like, well, you know, if I only get to make one movie, not even make, if I only get to, you know, write a movie that people take seriously, let's show them that I can do a heist movie, I can do a comedy, I can do a thriller, a sci-fi, put it all in one movie and see if it works out. Never in a million years thinking I would get the opportunity to direct it, which is insane. Yeah, so I spent a year writing it and rewriting it and rewriting it and, you know, the very terrible draft of your terrible draft until it got to a place where I'm like, okay, I recognize that this is good. This reflects like my voice. And the day I finished that final, that last draft, JD Lifshitz from Bolder Light, just a friend of a friend,

he's like, oh, he's having a moment right now with Barbarian, I'm hearing great things about that. I'll send it to him. And he read it that night and called me the next day. So this is 24 hours after finishing this script, he's like, we wanna produce this. And then he sent it to Roy Lee. And then so 48 hours after finishing this script, he's like, we want to produce this. And then he sent it to Roy Lee. And then so 48 hours after finishing the script, I had Roy Lee attached.

And then over the weekend, they sent it to Zach Craiger and he read it. And like, there was a brief moment where he was going to direct it. And so I had five producers attached within like a week of writing it, which is not something that happens ever. And I didn't think it was going to happen. This was a, this was purely a writing sample, um, to get a job that was similar to companion, I never thought that it would get, get made. So that happens and Zach is attached, but it's going to be a movie that's going

to happen his next movie, I guess, after Barbarian and then that doesn't happen. So like what happened? How did you become the director of the movie? Yeah. So I worked with Zach closely for five, six weeks, just kind of polishing it, talking about it, and a Barbarian had not come out yet. And through that process, I think that because I'm very protective of my stuff, like, well, for making it, you know, like I'm not going to like just, like,

just, you know, just hand it off. I'd already seen Barbarian, I knew it was amazing, but I just, you know, I've been burned so many times at directors kind of, you know, fucking my shit up, which it sounds awful, but it's just, it's like gut wrenching when you have an idea in your head of what it is and then you see it execute and you're like, oh my God,

like, these decisions that were made, they're just, they're not coming from a place of story. There's just like these, you're putting all the energy in like these cool shots and that's not what the scene's about, so I just was, I was very protective and going through each scene and being like, well, how would you shoot this and whose moment is this? And he's big on POV and I'm big on POV.

And I don't mean like literally like how you shoot like a POV shot, I mean like every scene should like you should know whose moment it is. And so I just wanted to make sure he like we were on the same page at that stuff. And I think through that process he realized like maybe he'd be better suited as a producer and just step aside. And I didn't know this was happening. He was like wrestling with this. And I got a phone call from him, like a couple of weeks after Barbarian had come out.

It might have actually been the weekend after Barbarian came out. And he was like, I'm sorry, I'm not gonna direct this, but I want to stay on as a producer. I was like, okay, yeah, I understand. You can do whatever you want. And then he said, but I've talked to Boulder Light and I've talked to Vertigo, and I've gotten them, like, their permission to if you want to direct it,

we think you could do it. I was like, oh my, you know, like, I didn't know the movie was going to get made. I didn't know that I would ever be a director. I wanted to direct. I wanted to come back to directing at a certain point because, you know, in my 20s, I directed a lot. But I never, I thought it would be, I have three ideas. I thought I would write this first idea, companion,

maybe it gets made, maybe it doesn't. Not gonna direct it. Second movie, maybe it gets made, maybe it doesn't. Hopefully the third idea I can direct. I didn't, I just leapfrogged over that thanks to Zach's generosity and yeah, like I wouldn't be sitting here if it wasn't for Craig or realizing like, like, yeah, this, this would be better if I directed it and it worked out for him too.

Cause weapons is awesome. Sounds like an exciting, yeah, I love Zach. So that's very cool. Um, I, that's a pretty wild story. It's so wild. Like you weren't, would you say you were, especially since you're a self-aware type, would you say you were angling or communicating like, here's my vision or here's what I would do

or anything to kind of signal like in the event that, Zach, you fall out? Like, because, or is it just like genuinely serendipitous and they just believed in your vision and that's why it happened? You know what I'm asking? Yeah, no, I think it's a little bit of both. I think unconsciously I was like angling for it, but I wasn't, you know, I've been in this business

a long time and I've learned every, I've lived every cliche there possibly could be about like, you know, working in entertainment, everything from having my first job and like thinking that the jobs will never end and like getting like this paycheck and then going like, let's go to Costco with all my friends and we have

fucking grocery carts full of flat screens and Xboxes and iPads and iPhones, and that money's gone in three months. I've lived that. So I've made every mistake you possibly could. I truly have. So when it started to seem like the movie was going to be made, I know that, like, a first-time director, that, like, you're suddenly committing to a lower budget. It's going to be harder to get a studio interested. It just becomes a different movie.

So I didn't want to stand in its way. I just wanted it to get made. So I was taking a very zen like approach, just being like, guys, like getting the movie made is the most, like that's the prime directive here. I don't care who directs it. Let's just, you know, it's like, if like the best director is the one who gets this movie made. That's, that was my kind of MO. So yeah, so it was a little bit of, but then yeah, like just the battle scars from having seen my stuff get kind of, that sounds so pretentious,

but just having it got burned. So I am very protective and I learned, you know, very early on how to direct on the page without directing on the page. Because I learned if you put like close up of a glass with like two ice cubes flanking in it, the directors immediately just screwed yourself because the director is going like, you can't tell me what to do and then you're not going to get a close up, it's going to start with a wide.

But if you write in like little phrases, little phrases like the shorter the phrase, you can kind of signify tempo and you can also like, you know, use onomatopoeia and be like clink, clink, like two glasses fall into, or two ice cubes fall into a glass. And you're kind of subconsciously like planting the seeds, if that's a close-up, that's a close-up. So like I just want to make sure, because when I write, all the blocking is done in my head. I don't do like, chase scene happens here, action scene happens here.

Like, I need to figure out every punch, I need to figure out every little detail. So it's already in my brain. I need to know that Zach and I were on the same page throughout the entire script. It's interesting because the movie does feel very... It's not that it's constructed, it's very tight. You know, like it doesn't feel leaky at any point.

And like a lot of, as I'm sure you know, like many genre movies are kind of notorious, even the ones that we love for having these kind of leaky components. But the movie also, it feels like a real agglomeration of a lot of influences while also being its own thing. Maybe you could talk a little bit about just the actual origin of the idea,

what you were thinking of and what you wanted to do with it. You know, every project is different, how it pops in your head. This one, I don't know why, but like the full log line, like day one popped in my head. Three couples go to, and I'm going to spoil it because it's in the trailer, but three couples go to a cabin in the middle of the woods. One of them finds out they're a robot going to be shut down and things become like go haywire and you know, like I knew it was going to have like a horror structure where every 10 pages someone's going to get picked off.

That just popped in my head. Like I didn't, sometimes it's a visual, sometimes it's a character, sometimes it's a scene that that was just like the full fully baked idea popped in my head. But my first instinct, and this is a year and a half before Megan had come out, was to make her the antagonist. It just seemed obvious, like you wanna make the robot like that's going bad, be, you know, day I gone wrong.

My brain immediately went there. And so I'm starting to break the story and thinking about her journey. And I get to the scene where she shows up at the cabin with Josh and she's afraid to go inside. And she's feeling alienated and alone and like she doesn't belong and she's worried about, just started tapping into like the first time

I had made like partners, friends and families. And I'm like, oh my God, I'm starting to relate to the robot here. And at that moment I'm like, oh my God, I'm starting to relate to the robot here. And at that moment I'm like, oh, could I do this? Could I make a movie where the most sympathetic character is a robot, the most human character is a robot? And that became the kind of like, as soon as I had that, that's when I fell in love with it.

I was like, oh, I can tell a different story here. It's interesting because the conversation around AI is like very noisy and very angry at times, especially from a lot of writers' perspectives. In this movie, it's not exactly AI in the traditional sense that we talk about every day, but the what if like AI gone right is a risky proposition. Like, how did you think about that? Were you like conscious of it, whether you were writing or in production on any of those ideas? Oh, yeah.

Constantly thinking about, like, how is this going to be taken? And I'm also, like, AI does scare me as a writer. And I, you know, toy around with chat GPT just to see. And it's every week I feel like it's, like, getting better and better. And, you know, I dismissed it, like, a year ago. And now I'm like, oh, my gosh, I don't know. It's like it's improving like by the second. And so it does scare me.

Wait till your movie comes out and has all that information and then it gets to, yeah. I know. But like the, it's a metaphor in the movie. You know, it's representing like the story. I never think, I didn't do a ton of research, I just needed to know if this technology could exist and when it would exist. And then as far as like, I didn't want to bog it down

in technical details, I didn't want it to be like the X in the machina talking about Turing tests. I wanted it to be very real and like feel like characters. It's like iPhone generation five or six where you just don't question it anymore. Right. That's the exciting thing about it. And then the fun became telling two different stories.

The one story is Iris and it's literally, or not literally, it's metaphorically the story of like a woman realizing she's in a toxic relationship and through self-discovery like takes agency and empowerment. And then there's the B side and that's the Josh and his friend side, which is it's not so overtly like said in the movie, but it's what would happen

if your phone looked like a human being and how would that affect your viewing, not just the robot, but all other human beings. And there's no accident why, like, Josh is not being affected by some of the things that are happening within the story. It's because everything's been dehumanized. Because when you look at your robot,

and it looks like a human, suddenly everything just kind of becomes objectified. And that was fun. I love that part. I did want to ask you about the specificity of the specs, for lack of a better word, are really, really good and really clever. And I hadn't quite thought of it like Iris is a phone, but that actually does make more sense that you would think about all of these different components and apps. And can you talk about just kind of like, developing these very specific detailed ideas that go into building out this?

Because even if you didn't research it somehow, it feels like you have designed a product that feels legible in the world. Even though the movie is a metaphor and satirical and all the things that it is. It's a lot of the details, I was like, I haven't seen this quite done this way before and it seems like this is what it could be. Yeah, I mean, I hope not.

I mean, I don't know like what the future is gonna be like obviously, but yeah, that's just what makes my brain tingle. That's like what I just follow. You know, my first drafts are a mess because I throw every single idea I have and then it just becomes like refining and focusing. And so, yeah, like that's the fun stuff.

Just to talk about like, whoa, like filter everything through story, filter everything through character. And you talk to, you know, it's easier to talk to Jack Quaid about his character and his motivation if you have reasons behind it and, you know, you're giving him like, you know, directing is not really about giving someone a directive. It's like giving them the guardrails.

Like, you know, like it's within here and within this like, you know, here parameters, you can have as much fun as you want. And my job is to make sure you don't drift on either side. Interesting. So I feel like you got some good fortune and probably express some good taste by getting Jack and Sophie, I guess, when you did. Sophie in particular is kind of on the rise as a scream queen. It's a fascinating thing. I haven't seen this quite done this well in terms of the parts that she's picking and the project she's a part of and just feels like sometimes the timing just seems perfect.

How did you get these? And obviously, Jack Quaid has been doing great work for like 10 years now. How did you get these two in the leads? Uh, you never know how it's gonna happen. Like, I don't write with anyone in mind because I've just been heartbroken so many times when you like have this specific actor in your head, and you're like, it has to be this character, this actor.

And then they always say no, and then you're like, oh, I don't have plan B. So I kind of want the characters to feel like I've used this metaphor. Maybe it's not quite right, but it's like a deflated balloon, you know, like it doesn't have a full shape to it, but it's like enough there that then you can have handed to an actor and they can fill it and give it shape and shading. But I assumed wrongly that Iris was going to be really easy to cast and Josh was going to be really hard to cast because my thought being like it would be really hard to get a, like someone, a man in his early 20s, late 20s

to want to play such a toxic character because it goes into like, you know, dark places. And Jack Quaid and I have the same agency, UTA, and his agent slipped him the script. And he read it before we even started casting and requested to sit down with me. And so we met for coffee. And, you know, again, the deflated balloon to me was he needed to have, he needed to be like boyish. He needed to have a very charismatic smile. And he needed to be someone that he's saying awful things from the get go.

He's saying smile, act happy. Like that's a, that's, there's no version of that where it's likable, but there is the most likable version of that. Like he, you know, it needs to come across not with any maliciousness. It comes from like, you know, the Jay Barashil school of like, I, I'm doing this because I'm

oblivious. Like I don't know any better. Like, I'm just like a man child. And sitting across from him, I'm like, oh my God, this is perfect. Like, he's great. I love this guy and he's nervous. I'm like, why are you nervous? You're the son of like Hollywood royalty.

Like, I should be the one nervous. We talked for like 40 minutes about Jaws. We didn't really even talk about the movie. And yeah, it was just like, it's yeah. And he, and he passes the most important test, which is he was fun to be around because you're going to be with these people for four months. So you, you know, like you don't want assholes because that's like, you're going to butt heads and it's going to be difficult for everyone.

And I just could feel like he's like a really good person and I don't want to want to be around him. And so yeah, before we even started like the, like the real casting, it's going to be difficult for everyone. And I just could feel like he's a really good person and I want to be around him. And so, yeah, before we even started like the real casting, it's like, oh, we have Jack Quaid attached. He's perfect, he's great. And then Iris ended up being so much harder. I assumed that there's so many young women that are just extremely talented, which is true,

but I didn't realize that the character is really two characters in one. It's the first half. She's very docile. She's very passive. You just believe that she's weak and she's not standing up to him. And then there's like a literal moment where she like, you know, flips a switch and she becomes like empowered and has agency and you need to feel it when she's standing up to Josh in the second half. You need to feel, she needed to buy it. And there were so many actors, we had 300 self-tapes, we had, we did a ton of chemistry reads with Jack, nailed the first half. Oh my God, you're amazing.

And then, you know, for auditions you do like scenes throughout the movie. We did one in the middle, or sorry, one at the beginning, one in the middle, one in the end, and they got to the end where they're supposed to finally stand up to Josh. It just felt fake and false. I was like, oh, I just don't buy it. And then the reverse would happen. You would find like an actor that just nailed the ending, just nailed that like, oh my God, you're a badass, you're an action star.

And then you tried to do the docile part and you're like, I don't buy it. I don't believe you. And then, yeah, Sophie, her name had been kind of banded about and finally set up a chemistry read with her and Jack, which I don't recommend to anyone to do this, but we did a resume, which, you know, the point of a chemistry read is to see if they have any chemistry and it's really hard to have chemistry when it's like a tiny little box.

But we had to because he was in London, I was in New York in pre-production, and Sophie was in LA. And it's like that Hollywood cliche of like, she just fucking like nailed it. And I'm so negative, and I know I seem grounded, but I'm so pessimistic that I'm like, oh, we're going to screw this up.

Like she, I've fallen in love with this actor in this role and it's not going to happen. Like something's going to go wrong. Like she's going to screw this up. Like she, I've fallen in love with this actor in this role and it's not going to happen. Like, like something's going to go wrong. Like she's going to get a better part or what, like, like, and just immediately just glass half empty. And luckily it worked out. She's really great.

I think she's amazing. She makes the movie. Yeah. I can't imagine anyone else in that role. And she was scared out of her mind specifically that the moment when, like halfway through the movie when she, I guess it's earlier, but when she discovers she's a robot, like there was like five, it's easy to write, like emotional, like, you know, swerves, but for her to like start in like a place of

fear, like, like confusion and fear. And then, and then it turns into kind of a comedy because she's like, I'm a robot, disbelief, and then it turns into like real pathos. Like you're like, oh my gosh, she's like, I think the saddest part in the movie is her, you know, I think any other movie would be like her accepting she's a robot over like 50, 60 minutes. She accepts she's a robot immediately. And the important thing is like, I know, okay, I'm a robot, that's fine, but like, you know, like 50, 60 minutes, she accepts she's a robot immediately. And the important thing is like, I know, okay, I'm a robot, that's fine. But like, how is that going to affect you and me?

Like, like I will do whatever it takes to get you back. And, and that she was really scared of and, and, and she nailed it. Like she makes like, you know, once we had that scene down, oh yeah, this, this movie will probably work. In the back of the house when she's in the chair. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and we shot it all in one, there's like a two minute flashback that happens within it,

but we shot the whole scene all at once. So she's doing all the, and she's speaking foreign languages and yeah, it's amazing. Okay, so the last thing I wanna talk to you about is a feeling that I had while watching the movie, which is I watched the movie I think before I saw, maybe had while watching the movie, which is I watched the movie, I think, before I saw it. Maybe I'd seen the teaser, but had not seen the trailer, had not read anything about it. And as I was watching the movie, two things occurred to me.

One in the first 10 minutes, I was like, I think I know what's going on here. I'm not totally sure, but like you, I watch a lot of genre movies. I love genre movies, very interested in how they're constructed. And I was right, but I'm curious to hear you talk about how much you want us to be right as the viewer. And then the second feeling that I had was this would be an amazing movie to stumble on cable and not know anything about. Yeah.

But inherently like you got to sell this movie, you got to market it. You got to give away certain things that when Zach Kroeger read it for the first time, he didn't know anything and he was like, holy shit. Yeah. That every 10 pages construction is so mind blowing. And even in our conversation, you're just talking about the events of the film. It's still come out a little bit after the movie comes out, but not too far afterwards. And so that balance between like the reveal and this art that you've learned

as a screenwriter to get people invested in what you're writing and what they're ultimately seeing versus you got to get people to show up and understand what the movie is going to be that they're going to pay for because it's very delicate balance. Welcome to my life. Like as soon as you have Warner Brothers, like I guess it's the New Line logo at the beginning of your movie, it's not, you know, it can't be don't worry, darling. You can't, you know, you have to like sell what it is.

Yeah. It's got, it's gonna be an IMAX, you know, you can't, it's not a word of mouth movie when it's an IMAX. Like you need those tickets, you need to sell those tickets. So it's like, it's tough to talk about that part of it. But then also like, I wasn't super precious with that, as crazy as that's gonna sound, because when I was writing it, I like, it was very important to me that we didn't fall under like the

don't worry darling like like like like you're selling this movie as a twist movie because one like I think people watch twist movies differently than they watch just a regular movie they're watching it as like puzzle boxes and they're they're not really getting in they're not they're not letting themselves get it like kind of immersed in the story they're just like every character that enters, they're like, who is this guy? Like, oh, he's acting weird. So everyone's under a microscope.

I feel like Shyamalan is so, so much is held against him now when you sit down to watch his movies, whether you like them or not for that exact reason. It's huge. I love him. Yeah, yeah. And I think that unfairly sometimes they call things that happened in his movies twists, and it's just, no,

that's a reveal. That's not a twist. The aliens being, like the water, like hurting the aliens is not a twist. That's the part of the story. That's their weakness, yeah. But yeah, so just, again, I think when you're writing, especially when you're writing at spec,

you have to be very calculated because you won't need to, like one, you need, like, you know, even though I say that I didn't know if it was going to get made, you also have to, you know, like I made, speaking of mistakes I've made, like my first spec was $150 million, like sci-fi family movie. Like, and I was like, you know,

I spent a year writing it and never, nothing ever happened with it. It's like, yeah, of course nothing happened with it. It was $150 million like movie, like, yeah, of course nothing happened with it. It's a $150 million movie, not based on any kind of pre-existing IP. That was crazy of me to do that. So, Companion was me being like, okay, I'm gonna engineer this to be something

that could get made. So, we're gonna keep it all in one location, limit the characters. And then also knowing that it is kind of, movies hinging on a twist, needing to kind of engineer the movie to still be entertaining after that's been laid out. And so before writing it, you sit down and you go, what is this movie? Does she find out in the third act that she's a robot?

What point? Is it a midpoint? And then when you have that, you know what movie you're telling. You know, like, this is a first act twist. This isn't doing anything other than getting the story started. And so everything before that is just set up to that, to what the strangeness is. And then, you know, if it happens earlier than people expected, that's great, because then they just turn their, you know, their guard goes down and they just start enjoying it. And then twists happen within that. And then suddenly they're like, oh, shit, I don't know what this movie is. And that, yeah, like...

That's exactly the feeling that I had, which was almost like, I feel like this is telegraphing in a smart enough way that I can feel like I'm ahead of the story even though I'm not ahead of the story. And then you have other twists or reveals or storytelling moves that we don't see coming or we're shocked by. But so bravo. I thought it was really good. Thank you very much.

Yeah, I appreciate that. Drew, we end every episode of this show by asking filmmakers, what's the last great thing they've seen? The last great thing I saw was oddity, which I thought was un-fucking-believable. I saw that on a plane. Okay. Which is not, I just was so busy that I couldn't, like, go to the theater to see it. Mm-hmm.

And I heard it was great. And I watched it on a plan on an iPad. And the visuals are so, like, just hypnotic and just draw you in that there was a jump scare that happened in the first half and the guy next to me went, so I was like, oh yeah, this guy's watching my iPad. And so I was really blown away by that. So that's the last great thing that I've seen. But I've just finished William Friedkin's memoir today.

And that was on, I loved, like I listened to it and it was so special to hear him talk and I'm just a huge freaking fan and I feel sad that I that I'm done with it. I've read that book it's so funny that you say that because I was reading that book this week as well for something else that I'm working on and that's just a great the director of memoir is a bit of a tricky proposition you know a lot of them are like a lot of self-mythologizing and his is like such straight talk. It's very, very entertaining.

Like his movies, they're raw and like unfinished and I just rewatched French Connection. It's just so sloppy, but that just adds to the charm of it. And, you know, with this day and age where you're using AI for cleanup and, you know, the movies could be perfection and flawless, it's we're losing something a little bit with that but I recommend listing the audiobook because he does the audiobook okay you know he doesn't go off book but they're like his personality comes through and he's like this is a chapter where I talk about this yes you're a great man I loved him so much I feel very lucky to get to talk to him before he passed on the show.

And he lives up. It was a really special experience. Great recommendations. Drew, congrats. Thank you very much. Thanks for coming on. Yeah, thank you. Thanks for having me. Thank you to Drew Hancock. Thanks to Jack Sanders. Thanks to our producer Bobby Wagner for his work on today's episode. As we said, next week on the show, mailbag time, email us at bigpickmailbag at gmail.com.

We'll see you then.