The Big Picture - The Top 20 Performances of 2020 and 'Ma Rainey's Black Bottom'

Episode Date: December 21, 2020

Awards season has officially begun with the New York and L.A. Film Critics handing out their annual awards over the weekend. Sean and Amanda talk about the winners and what they mean for the Oscar race (1:00). Then they look at 'Ma Rainey's Black Bottom,' Netflix's adaptation of the August Wilson play that stars Viola Davis and in one of his final performances, the late, truly great Chadwick Boseman (13:00). And then we'll be giving out some hardware of our own: naming the 20 best movie performances of 2020 (25:00). Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Sean Fennessy. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about the best acting we've seen in our whole lives this year. Award season has officially begun with the New York and L.A. critics handing out their annual awards over the weekend. We'll talk about the winners and what they mean for this Oscar race. Then we'll look at Ma Rainey's Black Bottom, Netflix's adaptation of the August Wilson play, which stars Viola Davis, and in one of his final performances,

the late, truly great Chadwick Boseman. And then we'll be giving out some hardware of our own, naming the 20 best movie performances of 2020. It's all coming up on The Big Picture. Amanda, good morning to you and absolutely not good morning to the New York Jets, who I hate and I hope are banished from the game of football. How are you doing today? I thought that that was going to be not a part of this podcast. I thought we were going to set some boundaries, that you were going to set some emotional boundaries and that didn't happen.

Okay. I'm better than you are because I have a grip on reality with respect to the various sports leagues that are in or not in my life or franchises as the case may be. Though I do live with an Eagles fan, so it's not much better over here they couldn't get much worse for Jets fans so let's just pivot as quickly away from the Jets as we possibly can because I hate them so much let's talk about uh let's talk about award season which we've been kind of dancing around I think for the last couple of months if you cut to a year ago at this time we were things were hot and heavy you know 1917 was hitting theaters we were debating Parasite and Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.

And this year, the conversation is significantly quieter. I would say it heated up just a little bit because, as I said, New York and LA handed out their awards. We'll talk through what some of those awards were, but what were your impressions of this awards race kicking into at least a higher gear? Did it kick into a higher gear or was it just sort of a, I thought it was nice in a way because usually these critics circles awards, they do relate to the award season. And I certainly don't want to diminish

the importance of critics, who I love very much and often agree with, but they often feel kind of adjacent to traditional award season. And we spend a lot of time being like, okay, well, the critics think this, but will the Academy really think this? And, you know, the Hollywood foreign press,

what even is it? It's comparing and contrasting. And there was something nice about these critics awards just kind of existing a bit on their own. And it's like, hey, we would just like to award these. I do think we'll end up talking about a lot of the films that they recognized in awards season talking about a lot of the films that they recognized in award season. But just because of the timeline and the fact that the Oscars literally, again,

are not until April 25th, these get to exist as a celebration on their own. And I like that. Yeah, it's interesting because as we know, the Golden Globes and the Academy Awards have pushed back their eligibility windows, the announcement of their nominees. The Globes, in a normal year, I think we would have nominations in about 12 or 13 days, and now we're not going to have them for another 40 days or so. So you're right. The New York and LA critics and the Boston critics, which gave out awards last week, and there have been a handful of other critics circles that have given out awards over the last two weeks, do get to kind of stand on their own. And that's unusual because as you point out, the critics tend to seem adjacent. They seem to be almost a rejoinder to whatever

the dominant Oscar narrative is. It's an opportunity to spotlight films or performances or crafts people who maybe aren't getting the look that they deserve. But it seems to be operating in kind of a silo this year, because with the exception of, say, Chadwick Boseman, who we're going to talk about a lot on this episode, there isn't a lot of Oscar narrative. It's kind of unclear what the game is.

We know that people love Nomadland and that there's a lot of strong feeling for that movie. And Nomadland was recognized quite a bit by both New York and L.A. But there's no clear horse race going on right now. I would not say there's a lot of intrigue around these races. And because there've been so significantly

fewer films released this year, it feels like there's more of a convergence between the critics and what the Academy Awards may end up becoming. Yes. Though again, the Oscars are four months away and never underestimate the Academy. It's nice that the critics lists are coming at the end of year season. And we are getting to talk a lot about, about some films that I think maybe would have gotten lost in the shuffle last year. And, and maybe that'll happen at the Oscars. We've had that conversation a lot, right? Like these Oscars will look different and maybe it'll finally be the time that smaller directors and smaller films get their moment. And we get to have like great conversations. You know, it's 2020 and 2021.

I'm dubious of having like the most optimistic view of anything that is going to happen. But but sure, for now, let's talk about some great films. OK, well, let's talk about New York first because they handed out their awards first. You know, I'll spotlight just a couple of the awards. Obviously, Chadwick Boseman was recognized, though not in the category that I expected here. He was granted Best Supporting Actor for his work in Five Bloods. Maria Bakalova

was deemed Best Supporting Actress for Borat's subsequent movie film, which I think is actually a nomination that could legitimately happen. There's a lot of noise around that happening. And we'll talk more about Maria later in this episode. Delroy Lindo acknowledged for Defy Bloods, which is probably the nomination that we've been anticipating for the longest

period of time ever since getting to see that movie last summer. And then two recognitions for Never Rarely, Sometimes Always in Best Actress for Sidney Flanagan and Best Screenplay for Eliza Hittman. And then the two big ones, Best Director, Chloe Zhao, Nomadland, and Best Picture, First Cow. This is kind of rude, but I think that this was all very predictable. I think First Cow and Nomadland being recognized by the NYFCC felt preordained in a lot of ways. I mean, First Cow is the movie that is the critics' darling from this year. That's the movie that I think we cited most often when we said, wouldn't it be great if Kelly Reichardt could finally get her due from the Academy,

which in a normal year where there was no pandemic would seem virtually impossible, but this year maybe it could. Do you think that First Cow has a chance in the Academy Awards conversation? Respectfully, may I just read the list of the winners from the New York Film Critics Circle for the last five or 10 years? Please do. I'm just going to read them. Last year was The Irishman, the year before that Roma, the year before that Lady Bird, La La Land, Carol, Boyhood, American Hustle, Zero Dark Thirty. Some of my favorite movies of all time in there.

Some movies also that I will never watch again. I don't think a single Best Picture Oscar winner. That is correct. Not one of those movies won Best Picture. And it's very unlikely that First Cow is going to win Best Picture. Nomadland, I don't know. We'll see. I mean, it does seem like the Best Director race is narrowing in a pretty significant way and it

seems like chloe zhao and david fincher kind of have pole position there and notably there is not a single award here for the movie mank from the new york film critics circle which uh we'll we'll keep tracking let's talk about la too so la LA is almost a rejoinder to a rejoinder historically. They're usually filling in ground that the New York circle is not filling in. And their awards were interesting as well. They also hand out runners up. So I'll be sharing all of them. So let's just look. Best Supporting Actor, The Great Glenn Turman for Ma Rainey's Black Bottom in an awesome performance that we'll talk about in a minute.

The runner-up was Paul Racy in Sound of Metal. Best Supporting Actress was Yoon Yeo-jung in Minari. The runner-up was Amanda Seyfried in Mank. And if Amanda Seyfried can't win there, then that's not a good sign for Mank. Best Actress, Carey Mulligan in Promising Young Woman. The runner-up was Viola Davis for Ma Rainey's Black Bottom. Best Actor, Chadwick Boseman for Ma Rainey's Black Bottom. And runner-up was Riz Ahmed for Sound of Metal.

Best Screenplay, Emerald Fennell for Promising Young Woman. Eliza Hittman was the runner-up. Best Director, Chloe Zhao again. The runner-up, Steve McQueen for Small Axe. And for Best Film, the runner-up was Nomadland. And the Best Film, in what I guess could be considered a little bit of a troll, was Small Axe. Not Mangrove, not Lover's Rock, but the entire Small Axe anthology series of films from Steve McQueen. What'd you think about the Small Axe decision that the LA FCC made? I don't think we need to call it a troll. I don't think we need to bring in negativity

to this discourse, even though I'm sure other people will insert it immediately. It's a critics association. That's what they do. They make statements. Everybody's making statements. This is their time to shine. That's the same thing that you and I do when we put lists together. And it is some of the most extraordinary film that we have seen this year. And you and I, well, we saw it in screeners, but people in the US did see it on Amazon Prime, which is already sort of blurring the line between film and they saw it on streaming. You actually don't have to pick whether it was film or TV. It was aired as television in the UK. They wanted to, I guess, insert themselves into this conversation. And I think that's cool. To me, it's, I don't really care whether it's film or TV. I think I care about the fact that

the people behind Small Axe have decided to submit it to the Emmys instead of the Oscars, which I think is a bit of a bummer, but is also their right. It is interesting. Small Axe has only went on film lists and not on, well, it was on Sam Esmail's best of list, but I mean, that tells you all you need to know. And I say that with love and respect for our friend, Sam Esmail, who's been fighting the film should be on TV and TV is actually film from the other side for several years. But I think it's smart to try to claim great film for your medium. I think we should continue to try to claim Small Axe. I think it's smart to try to claim great film for your medium. I think we should continue to try to claim small acts. I think it's kind of weird that the Oscars aren't.

Though I do really think it's lame when things compete for both Emmys and Oscars. I do think you got to pick one just for fun. So if small acts has picked the Emmys, I guess they've picked the Emmys. It's more confusing than ever now, though. I mean, that's been the theme, of conversation throughout the show for 2020 has been what is this? What is a movie? What is a TV series? And I say troll lovingly to the LA critics. I think it was a smart move. I think it was clever. I think it was attention grabbing. And it's not as if small acts and all the films they're in are not worthy. I mean,

that's some of the best stuff I've seen this year. And I think Steve McQueen should be celebrated every day of the week. So I don't have a problem with that by any means. But it does kind of speak to, I think, the seeming lack of power that the Oscars may have this year. Like a film that is not even competing for an oscars is being deemed best film at by the critics that's that's that's a diminishment of power in a lot of ways and it's interesting i mean i think on the periphery here both critic circles identified the same film in some of the uh lesser categories the lesser known categories rather or lesser talked about categories

best documentary they both identified time i'm garrett brad Best Documentary, they both identified Time, Garrett Bradley's wonderful film. They both identified Wolfwalkers for Best Animation. And they both identified Rod of Blanks, the 40-year-old version, for the sort of new generation slash first-time filmmaker award, which is a film that we have not talked about very much, which you can find on Netflix,

which is a very interesting first-time effort from Rod of Blank. And, you know, so there's this odd sense of consensus battling with an inscrutability around the race. I think generally all of these awards are nice. It's cool to see. I always like to see people like Paul Racy and Glenn Turman, who are not really going to likely be a part of the awards, uh, race get race get identified here and win awards. This year, the Maria Bakalova recognition seems like a stunt, but actually might turn out to be not a stunt.

But we'll see. I mean, there's a lot still to unpack here. We'll be unpacking it, I'm sure, over the course of the next four months to some extent. But we're off and running. Are you fired up? Are you excited? I love awards. I love to rank things, to hand things out, to tell people that their opinions are wrong. So bring it on. Let's bring on Ma Rainey's Black Bottom and talk about Chadwick Boseman and this fascinating new movie. I woke up this morning and I fired up Netflix just to kind of see where Ma Rainey's Black Bottom showed up on the top 10. And it was at number one on Netflix's

top 10, which was a surprise to me, honestly, because, you know, not that this is not a film starring movie stars and is not an important piece of work. It's a very important piece of work. It's directed by George C. Wolfe, a legendary Broadway director. And it's adapted from the iconic August Wilson 1984 play which is one of the installments in his Pittsburgh cycle but still it's a you know it's a it's a smaller drama and we had this conversation in the aftermath of Mank

when Mank clearly did not penetrate the consciousness of Netflix viewers and I think was only very briefly on that top 10 but Ma Rainey has emerged as a big time Oscar contender, as one of the most talked about in meaningful movies of the year

for a variety of reasons, Chadwick Boseman, not least among them. Just off the dome, what'd you think of Ma Rainey? Really enjoyed it. And I think we have to talk about the Chadwick Boseman of it all, an extraordinary performance. You know, it occurred to me,

we're using Ma Rainey and the Chadwick Boseman performance to talk about the best performances of the year. And so, you know, we each made a list and I didn't put the Chadwick Boseman performance on my list because it's the kind of umbrella start of the whole episode. But I just want to be clear, it's one of the best performances of the year. And we can talk more about why. I was also really struck by the adaptation itself. And as you said, it is a film adaptation of a play. And sometimes that can be just one camera filming two people in a room. And sometimes that can be a really dynamic experience.

And I thought this was the latter. I was really impressed by this as just kind of bringing the set and the stage as well as the themes and the performances to life. And it is interesting. I mean, August Wilson plays are always timely because they're about the Black experience in America and they are about America itself. But I'm looking forward to talking about this in conversation also with One Night in Miami, which is another possible Oscar contender. And it's clearly influenced by this play and is about the role of Black art and Black artists

and how we assign value to those things and the role of art changing America or the world and the people who make that art. So it has a lot to say. And I think it's great that it's number one at Netflix. I feel like that's maybe a little bit like the algorithm for good. But if we can make the algorithm work for good and more people see this, that's fantastic. I agree with you. It's obviously a timely movie and August Wilson never expires. It's interesting to watch him become a relevant voice in the world of film. He's obviously one of the key, the signature voices in American theater in the last 50 years. And People Who

Saw Fences, the 2016 Denzel Washington film, which he wrote, or excuse me, which he directed and produced and starred in and vaulted Viola Davis to an Academy Award, you know,

will understand kind of like the métier, how August Wilson writes and the very specific point of view of his characters and the way that he takes, you know, very confined spaces like a small home or like a rehearsal room

in the case of Ma Rainey and makes them like these explosive kinetic environments where they're, and in particular, I think George Wolfe, you know, is kind of whipping the camera around and the camera's trying to train its eye on Viola Davis, who is this, you know, this larger than life kind of empowered and, you know, kind of angry but incredibly gifted and and talented person who's trying to retain control over her own creativity and then following Chadwick Boseman who is a person who is trying to acquire a sense of power over his own creativity throughout this movie and try to figure out you know who he is and how he can gain more um I don't know credit respect money uh attention for the work that he wants to do and the kind of the push pull that happens there which could be a metaphor for

any number of things it could be a metaphor for life in the theater it could be a metaphor for uh it obviously is for the black experience it it is for a number of different things and that's one of the great things about wilson is he's widely interpretable. And, you know, they just have like the best possible cast in this movie. You know, we mentioned Glenn Turman, who fans of The Wire will know as Mayor Royce. And, you know, longtime fans will know from like Spike Lee's Cooley High. He was actually on Higher Learning last week. I would encourage people to check out that interview. He's a great actor.

Coleman Domingo also, who's on Euphoria right now and was in Beale Street and has been in a number of movies over the recent years, who's wonderful. And Taylor Page, who is going to be a movie star when the movie Zola comes out. She appears in the movie as Ma's young girlfriend. And it's just an incredible collection of people and an unusually electrifying stage adaptation. I like stage adaptations too, but I think that this one is like maybe not quite in the who's afraid of Virginia Woolf territory,

but it's pretty close. It's pretty close to that completely transcending that conversation about a stage play. What else? What else should, should we say about Ma Rainey? I mean, we should talk about the Chadwick Boseman.

Let's do it. I think it's, you know, it, even before any of us were able to see it, there was a conversation around it because it is one of his last performances. And it's impossible to watch it without that context. And I, you know, here we are in 2020. So I don't think it's worth trying. But the two things that I was struck by is one, this is a very different Chadwick Boseman performance. He usually has to be at the center of the narrative and bring the gravitas. And he doesn't get to have always that energy and electricity that he does in this film.

He doesn't get to be the provocateur always. He has to be like the the institution and so it's really exciting to see him do that and I think you can sense his excitement um in in getting to play something different I think you know when when he died we talked a little bit about I mean just it's a tremendous amount of loss for you know for him and his family and and for the world and and for cinema but of like of all the roles that we didn't get to see him play. And this actually does feel like one of them. And, you know, there's the other thing is that there's just one monologue at the end where it just, it's,

you're watching him work through it all. And it's very clear. And it's one of those things where you're not watching acting, you're just watching someone just like really express himself. And that's actually does a discredit to him. Cause I think you're watching amazing acting. He is channeling everything that's going on with him and presenting it, you know, in a scene that feels a piece with the film, but also just completely makes the film work.

And it's devastating and amazing. And I think he'll almost certainly win the Oscar and it's deserved. That seems great to me. Completely agree. I think I like him as the instigator in a story know i like him as the the the firework as opposed to the fuse like so often he's the fuse and in this case you know and occasionally you know get on up i think is was was an instance in which he was at the center of the frame and was unpredictable and had this kind of vivacity that he has in this movie but you're right for the most part he's institutional he's he is the dignity he's the calm he's the ease He's the person that can be relied upon, whether that's Thurgood Marshall or T'Challa. He is always a kind of like there's a rigidity.

Even in Defy Bloods, he is this mess iconic figure. You know, he's this memory of friendship for those guys. In this movie, he's unpredictable. He is charged up. He's so frustrated. He is also so inspired and so creative. And you don't want to read too much into what's going on with the person, but we know now, obviously, he was sick and he was dealing with something profound. And the whole purpose, in a lot of ways, of Levy,

of this character is sort of like, don't take your life for granted. Don't take this opportunity for granted. Don't just be a passive passenger in your own life. Take control of it. That's a huge message in the movie and a message of the story and a message of his life. I mean, this is a person who pursued it, who sought it out and is honestly legendary. I think T'Challa specifically will live in the hearts of kids for a long, long time. And it's heartbreaking and awful that we don't get to see more performances like this. But there is probably very, very, very, very small comfort in knowing that he'll be recognized for this in the way that he deserves to be. And that more people will also see this movie because of this awful tragedy that happened.

That more people will be interested to say, what was the last Chadwick Boseman performance? When's the last time he was able to be in a movie? You know, it's a bit absurd to compare the two, but Heath Ledger is very similar with The Dark Knight and the kind of the attention that was put on that character and put on his performance there. Obviously, there are two totally different kinds of things. One is a comic book movie,

and this is a much more serious piece of art. But millions of people watching Ma Rainey's Black Bottom is huge. The work of August Wilson was largely confined to Broadway and to local theater for decades. And now it's more democratized. And I think that's very, very special and important. The only other thing I want to add, and I agree with everything you just said, is that I think that Chadwick Boseman will rightfully be like the main story out of Ma Rainey. But we should just also say that Viola Davis is really excellent in this film. And, you know, she actually may not be overshadowed.

She may also win an Oscar. She's certainly in the best actress category and winning best actress is not being overshadowed um but I think that um like her commitment to to being to both kind of being the institution or at least being the older way of doing things and then also pushing against it um is really remarkable and she's a she's a fantastic actor. Yeah, I mean, Viola Davis is never bad. Yeah. This is a tricky part though, right? It's based on a real person. It's a musical performance.

She's not actually singing in this movie, but she is evoking, evincing the qualities of a performer in an amazing way. You know, she has seemingly gained weight and it is like one of those physical transformation kind of roles. And she acts very physically here in the performance, which is something that we're like very quick to celebrate

men for and maybe not as quick to celebrate women for um and yeah i mean it it's a little bit like waiting for the sun to rise like it happens every day viola davis crushes it every day but it shouldn't go without mentioning this is a a special movie. I hope people watch it. And I had the exact same thought that you did, which is even if Chadwick Boseman does not appear on our top 20 best performances, the point is that he is kind of the patron saint of these lists. This is the performance really of 2020. Yes, absolutely. He inspired this episode. The performance is up there and I think it will continue to be rewarded, which is great. Okay, let's do our lists. Actually, let's take a quick break and then we'll do our lists, okay?

Okay. Okay, we're back. So I've chosen 10-ish performances. I've chosen 10-ish performances. You've chosen 10-ish performances. There are no ground rules other than this movie needed to come out this year. And I'll say that we share a lot of the performances on the list, I think. I think it's reasonable to assume that if I say something, you don't necessarily abjectly hate it.

And likewise me. There are a lot of picks on your list that I really like and a lot that you like on my list. Would you like to begin? Would you like to go first? These are in no order. We're just rattling off performances we love this year. Great.

Yes. So my first is a performance that we just recently spent some time talking about, but I'm going to do it again. It's John David Washington, Tenet, which upon rewatch of Tenet, which I encourage everyone to do it again. It's John David Washington, Tenet, which upon rewatch of Tenet, which I encourage everyone to do, even if you didn't understand it the first time, not that you're going to understand it more, but he really stands out in the performance, what it brings to the movie and brings to

a Nolan film in terms of just kind of reinventing a Nolan hero. And the confidence and the ease and the sense of humor and the physicality is what I like about this movie and kind of what helps me and the film itself, I think, just kind of like have fun and go on the ride. And that's a really underrated skill. So I thought he was excellent. So I was on the Bill Simmons podcast this morning and Bill mentioned that he watched Tenet with his wife

and that she, it seems like, walked out after 20 minutes because she found it too confusing and that Bill was very angry about it. And it's, you know, a lot of people are having the reaction to Tenet that I have to a lot of Christopher Nolan movies. And you might say I've inverted the takes with our Ten tenant celebration do

you get any feedback on our episodes where we've been celebrating this movie that a lot of people seem to hate no but i don't really talk to people as you know i just talk to you and then i want everyone else to keep their feedback to themselves people are so mad about tenant and uh it's honestly funny it's funny i i don't know what the problem is it it looks beautiful and there's some charming people is it just that people don't really want to like do sport coats is that what it is no i people seem to have a serious problem with the quote-unquote development of the characters um which just reads to me like a criticism out of a book report instead of a criticism about how cool a movie can be but who cares i just I thought it was worth noting because, you know,

you've got JDW here and also your boy Pattinson here on your list too. Wow, spoiler. You just took away my second pick. You never let me go in order. You always completely screw up my list. Do you know, you know what feedback I have gotten is people in my DMs being like, you got to stand up to Sean when he moves you around on the top five rankings. It's unjust. He's always letting people talk before you. He's completely making a mess of

your carefully curated lists. And you just spoiled it once again. So what you're telling me is you created bot accounts to DM yourself criticisms that no one would actually share? Boy, between the CR army and your DM bots, this has been a complicated year in terms of technological information for the big picture. I didn't mean to spoil it. We can talk more about our Pats very shortly. Okay, thank you. Before I start giving out my picks, I want to give out my worst performance of the year, which is Adam Gase, head coach of the New York Jets, who I despise. I despise him. I absolutely despise him. That's the worst performance of the year, which is Adam Gase, head coach of the New York Jets, who I despise. I despise him. I absolutely despise him. That's the worst performance.

Everyone is just being rational and keeping their emotional relationship to whatever piece of pop culture, be it sports or Christopher Nolan movie, in perspective. Good job, everybody. It's been a year of extremes. And speaking of extremes, my first pick is a movie that is probably the single most requested movie that we talk about over the course of the last six to eight weeks. And I don't even know why we haven't talked about it. The movie is Sound of Metal. The performance is Riz Ahmed. I think this is

also a performance that is probably going to be recognized in some form or fashion during award season. Riz, of course, long time actor you may know from The Night Of, among other movies and TV series. Brilliant British performer. He plays a punk metal drummer in this movie who loses his hearing. And so it does fall into the kind of standard disability trope for awards bait. But I would say that this is a slightly more um subtle and emotional and strange film and it seems to have really connected with people i've been hearing a lot about it from people who listen to our show it's on amazon prime right now um the movie itself i think is

good not great uh i do think riz holds the whole movie down completely he's he's in almost every frame of it and his experience as he is sort of very quickly and then very quickly loses his hearing and then has to kind of cope with the ramifications of that and what choices he has to make in the aftermath of that requires a level of sensitivity in the performance that I think is really great. I've always been

a fan of Riz and it's cool to see him get a little bit of shine this year. I don't know necessarily why this movie has gone into like an almost like insta cult status, but it seems to have reached that. And that also speaks to me to the power of movies on streaming. Like a movie like this would have been an art house movie and it would have been available to a very limited audience for months and months during award season. But being able to put this in front of a lot of people right away, all of a sudden it's got this wave of support, which is cool to see.

So that's Riz Ahmed and Sound of Metal. Okay. Our Pats. Yes. My next pick is a gentleman you might've heard of from Sean five minutes ago. And it's Robert Pattinson in Tenet. I guess we're just doing Tenet time, right? The past is the future.

And he's my second pick and also my first and whatever. Thank you so much. I also love to make time travel jokes that I don't understand. Can I just a great tenant joke? Uh, at some point, uh, a friend of ours sent me some, uh, it was a screenshot of some sort of insurance paperwork that he was doing. And it was about insurance for protecting for things that haven't happened yet. Like that was the language of the insurance company. And he was like, oh, this is also from Tenet. And I thought that was a good joke. Anyway, even though insurance, another thing that I don't understand and maybe seems like a scam.

Anyway, Robert Pattinson is a wonderful actor. And this one is kind of an easy pick, but I also think that he's not getting enough credit. When you watch Tenet, he just jumps off the screen. Charm Machine, he's definitely doing the Eames, Tom Hardy, and Inception role. And he's also the Christopher Nolan stand-in, and that's fun. And he gets to do a lot of stuff. And he definitely has a light touch, but I do think it's also really hard to play this character with the ease and the, I don't want to say obliviousness, but the, to not give anything away and to not just not give

anything away, but also communicate that sense of you won't know until you know. And that he kind of follows the internal logic of the, of the film to the extent that there is internal logic of the film, um, which may just be because Robert Pattinson is like the perfect person for this, this film and this role, he does seem to have kind of a spaciness. And I mean that with all of the generosity of, I just, I love it about him, but it might not be acting. It might just be him, but I think the performance does a lot to make the film fun for me as well. And again, I just, the John David Washington, Robert Pattinson chemistry, It's adorable. I really loved the bro comedy aspect of this. Robert Pattinson is on a run right now.

Yeah. Let me just tell you, this is what Robert Pattinson has been up to. He was in Good Time, which is a banger from the Safdies. He was in High Life from Claire Denis. He was in The Lighthouse, which is an all-timer for me. He was in The King, which is not a great movie, but he is

phenomenal in The King as the Dauphin. Oh, yeah. Then he was an insane screaming preacher in The Devil All the Time. And then he was Neil and Tenet. And next he's going to be Batman. Shout out Robert Pattinson. A lord. My next pick is Kristen Milati from Palm Springs, which I'm sure is a stand-in for your pick as well. She's an absolute delight. She was a guest on this show earlier

this year with the director of the movie Max Barbacow. You know, an actress who I think I first saw in 30 Rock, in a very funny episode of 30 Rock where she played kind of like a like a ditzy pop star. You may remember, she was almost like a Britney Spears type, who Liz Lemon had an adversarial relationship with.

Super funny episode of that show. And I had always thought was really winning and has a kind of 90s rom-com star charm. And it just feels like we've been waiting for her to get a role like this in a movie like this andy sandberg is also fantastic in palm springs we've talked about that movie a lot this year it obviously was uh a quarantine salve for a lot of people but she in particular when the movie is on her she has a kind of almost like devilish manic energy and has to also kind of cope with like a depression

and she really like runs the gamut of emotions in this movie in a way that the samberg character really does not have to um and she holds it together she really is like she's the the core of the movie in many ways even though she isn't necessarily the lead figure that we first meet so kristen milati shout out to her yeah's great. She has to go on the entire emotional journey that we do and also challenge Sandberg comedy-wise, which is hard. Yeah, I loved that movie. Just make good rom-coms. It's harder than it looks to make good rom-coms, but let the people who know how do it. Would you say your next pick is a rom-com? Maybe. This is so interesting. We haven't talked about the film, the next film. So your next pick is a rom-com? Maybe. This is so interesting.

We haven't talked about the film, the next film. So my next pick is Gina Rodriguez from Kajillionaire. And we haven't talked about Kajillionaire. And as I was preparing for this podcast this morning, I was like, maybe I should have rewatched Kajillionaire because I still don't totally remember what happened in it. And it's a film that made an impression on me and a performance that really made an impression on me, even if I didn't totally connect with it, which is often how I feel about Miranda July's work.

But that's OK, because, you know, art contains multitudes. And I guess ultimately it is a romantic comedy. think not just the relationship between Evan Rachel Wood and Gina Rodriguez's characters, but also kind of the energy dynamic between those two people is in many ways what the movie is about. And a little bit, I feel like I'm doing the cheat code by picking the Gina Rodriguez performance because she is supposed to be so like charming and accessible and the kind of magnet that all the other characters are and the world is drawn to. But she does it effortlessly and it worked on me. I was drawn to that magnet. And she was the first person that I thought of when we put this list together. I just walked away being like, huh, that was great. Yeah. She operates in contrast in that movie to old Dolio and her

really weird family of, of scammers in that she seems like a normal person, but by seat, by being a kind of normal person, quote unquote, she seems extra real. You know, she seems to be like breaking the wall of performance and, and of like artifice that comes, I think with a lot of Miranda July movies where when you're watching it, you're like, what is going on here? Why is this the tone? She seems like the first character in a Miranda July movie who's not doing Miranda July tone, which is powerful. And she's also just very charming.

You know who's in the Gina Rodriguez hive? Who? Chris Ryan. Chris Ryan. Oh, really? Yeah. Gina Rodriguez is really high on his list. We'll have to.

Yeah. I'll just. Actually, I don't want to text him. I don't want to text something inappropriate back. You know, I know he's got a lot of strong feelings for her. Okay. Well, she's great in this film. She's wonderful. My next pick, I am loathe to say too much about because most people are not going to be able to see this movie until February. And we have just not talked about it very much since Sundance, but it's Steven Yeun from from Minari which is an absolutely wonderful movie that I just got a screener for that I'm going to revisit over the holidays and I'm looking forward to it I think you and I were knocked over by it at Sundance earlier this year and probably is going to be an Oscar film and

Steven Yeun is one of the best actors alive um I think that conversation really went to the forefront when he appeared in Burning a couple of years ago the Korean drama and obviously he's been on The Walking Dead and he's in movies like Okja and he's got a long career um but this is a this feels like the part he was born to play I think every actor in Minari is worth talking about and you you may talk about them a bit more here later in the episode. This is, it's basically just a very sensitive, thoughtful drama about a family that moves to,

I can't recall the state. Is it Arkansas? I want to say Arkansas and starts a farm, which seems simple and is simple, but is an incredibly touching and funny and unusually deep movie about family so steven young one of the best i think can can do a kind of restraint in his performances that is very rare um so i hope people will check that movie out when it comes out and we'll certainly talk about it more in february when people get a chance to see it

yeah i just want to note that that's a shared one. You're grabbing Steve again. I mean, he's so wonderful. No, I just, he's so wonderful. And I really recommend Seek Out Minari as soon as you can see it. And I look forward to talking more about it. It better be an Oscar film. I hope so too.

What's next for you? My next, Candice Bergen, Let Them All Talk. Just great. This is probably less a favorite performance of the year and just person I want to hang out with. Just like put me on that cruise ship with those three people, but really with Candice Bergen. And then I'm happy to leave the cruise ship with her and go home with her and just chat about stuff. But, you know, I love these kind of later in career performances where someone who hasn't been getting roles or kind of really getting to let loose in a while gets to do so.

She's got great one-liners. She brings, she's the emotional key to this film, for sure, and also the anger key, which is a fun one she's just having more fun than everybody else and i'm attracted to that any year but especially in 2020 she gets to do both in the movie right we didn't really talk too much about the details of let them all talk and i don't know i don't want to spoil the movie for anybody who hasn't seen it but she gets to have the big emotional showdown with the myrtle stream character at the end but she gets to have the big emotional showdown with the Meryl Streep character at the end. But she also gets to be the comic relief frequently in the movie.

And she has kind of the hilarious denouement when she acquires the book at the end and she's trying to sell it off. You know, all of that stuff is wonderful. Candace Bergen, what an interesting figure in American culture. I mean, I think people of our generation probably know her best as Murphy Brown, but I mean, she's in tons of movies in the 60s and 70s and was kind of a, I don't know, was one of the like celebrated, elegant women of that time, you know, kind of like a Hollywood royalty type figure. You know, she was in Carnal Knowledge and The Wind and the Lion and Getting Straight and starting over and a bunch

of movies that I really like and basically spent the 80s and 90s starring as Murphy Brown and becoming like a topic of frequent discussion about like female empowerment, women's role in the workplace, the intersection of media and politics. Like that show was really interesting and kind of ahead of its time. Yeah, it was a lightning rod. I mean, they got it. She got into a fight with or the character got into a fight with Dan Quayle. Yes, I believe at some point.

The character. It was. Yeah, I think it was the character. Again, we were we were very young and I definitely like my parents watched Murphy Brown and I was just in the room and it made a huge impression on me. But it's very it seems like the Internet before the internet with a bunch of old people yelling at each other. Everything old is new.

So true. My next pick is Sean Parks, who is the star of Mangrove, who is a person who, if this film were eligible for an Academy Award, I would hope to see nominated for Best Actor since it is not. Maybe he'll be recognized at the Emmys. He plays Frank Critchlow, who's the owner of the Mangrove Restaurant, and he's really the sort of entryway character for this film. The film obviously ultimately becomes about the Mangrove Nine in full and the lawyers and the judge and the police officers that are part of that story. But Critchlow is the entry point. And Parks is an actor I don't recall ever seeing.

And he is incredibly powerful in this movie as a person who's trying to understand logically why he can't just live in peace, why he can't just have this restaurant in this community that can be a place of celebration and care and decency towards one another and not be bothered by racist police officers. Seems like a reasonable request. He has not granted it. And it ultimately leads to this historical event in England. And, you know,

he does, as the film goes on, he kind of recedes from the center of the frame as more characters enter, including Malachi Kirby, who's wonderful as dark as how, and Letitia Wright, of course, as Althea and a number of other great actors.

But the first 40 minutes of this movie, Parks is so powerful and so devastated by everything that's happening to him in this restaurant that he's put so much care and time into. So really, it's absolutely amazing performance. I've watched this movie three times now. I really, really recommend Mangrove

if you have not watched it. I love it. Yeah, I second that choice and that recommendation. It's really internal performance, which when you think about courtroom dramas in particular, you aren't really used to seeing that, that not,

not quite quietness, but that making sense. It's, you know, it is the personal and the political, and that's the role that he serves in that film. And it's really extraordinary. He,

he makes it all come together for me. Absolutely. Who's next for you? My next is, we've already spoken about him. It's Delroy Lindo from The Five Bloods. And I think this is another shared one. I think I actually took this from your list. This is absolutely one of the performances of the year.

We said it at the time. And he doesn't just hold this film together, but he is the engine of this year. We said it at the time. And he doesn't just hold this film together, but he is the engine of this movie. And there was a lot going on in Five Bloods. It's obviously a Vietnam War movie and a treasure hunt movie and a father-son movie. And it's just a lot. It is a Spike Lee film. And he embodies all of it and really carries you through the narrative. And it's both really a large and angry performance and also a really specific performance. I think almost no one else could have pulled it off. And, you know, and, and, and those, those last scenes of him, I guess, in the, in the jungle or wherever he wanders off to are extremely powerful and also not.

They're both really big and not over the top. That's really hard to kind of be asked to do that level of emotion and that just level of somatic work that that character is doing in the film and to make it feel lived in. I think it's extraordinary. I'm such a huge fan of Delroy Lindos. And I loved him in the 90s as an actor. And he felt like one of the most important actors around. I mean, he was in Malcolm X and Crooklyn and Clockers as central figures in those Spike Lee movies. I'll never forget him as Bo Catlett in Get Shorty. I always thought he was phenomenal as kind of the heavy in that movie. And in the 2000s, he has kind of receded from view as a movie actor. He's on The Good Fight, The Good Wife spinoff right now and has been doing

that for the last few years, but has not been as central to the movie conversation. And you're right though. I mean, he is a huge performance that I would say is not over the top. It's about a person who's basically suffering from PTSD and coming apart at the seams and, you know, returning to the site of his trauma and is completely ravaged by what the war did to him and what the specific details of his life have done to him. And, you know, the character kind of infamously at this point is a Trump supporter and wears a MAGA hat throughout the movie and seems to be being torn apart

from the inside out. And just incredible, incredible work. It's fascinating that this is like a, not just a worthy win, but also an it's time kind of award that he would win.

But with Chadwick Boseman also running for best actor now, I don't know if Delroy Lindo is going to get an Oscar that he quote unquote deserves. So the least you can do is just watch The Five Bloods. Absolutely. Okay. My next pick is Frances McDormand in Nomadland. This is one of my favorite movies of the year. We talked about it on our episode a couple of weeks ago. Frances McDormand does not miss. I want to share an anecdote with you. A mutual friend of ours, somebody who is an extraordinary take artist,

shared a take recently with me. And I almost felt like he was sharing the take in an effort to get me to talk about it on the podcast. So here I am talking about it on the podcast. But he's basically saying that Frances McDormand is pretty overrated. That she's got like one pitch. That she's only been good in a couple of movies.

That the Fargo legacy is very strong for her. But that she was actively bad in three billboards. And that she does not have a strong resume. My response to the take was, fuck off. Because that's not how I feel about Frances McDormand. I think she has what all great movie stars have. Which is a persona. She has a kind of a point of view.

She has an attitude that we are able to connect to. And she can do different kinds of roles. And you've seen her in Coen Brothers movies where she's kind of modulating the tone of her voice or the kind of woman that she plays. But she's always Frances McDormand, ultimately. And that's a good thing. Katherine Hepburn was always Katherine Hepburn. Sidney Poitier was always Sidney Poitier. George Clooney is always George Clooney. You can tweak and twist and turn, but Frances McDormand being in the middle of a movie probably means you've made a movie at least worth paying attention to. And Nomadland and Fern and the character that she creates here with Chloe Zhao, one of my favorites of the year and looking forward to seeing it again.

So I recommend it. And I think when people get a chance to see it, I have no idea when that will be. They should see it as well. I just want to say, I think that's a very perceptive insight about Frances McDormand, Sean, and I agree with you.

And I never say that on the podcast, but it's true. So generous, thank you. And it's not only did she create like a persona that is recognizably herself, but it's usually a slightly off-center, prickly, not glamorous woman. It's not the type of movie star persona that we often see in movies, and it just is synonymous with Frances McDormand now. So that's cool. I thought she was great in

this film. People should see it. Yeah, I think that persona aspect, you know, I'm just reminded now that we're going to do 35 over 35 early next year, which I'm really excited about. Probably our most controversial episode ever was 35 movie stars under 35. People fucking hated that when we did that. I have no regrets. Yeah, I have no regrets. But we're going to do 35 over 35. And the fun thing about that is you could be 92 years old. You could be Sophia Loren who may be competing for an Oscar this year, and you could be on the 35 over 35. There's no age limit at the end of it, only at the beginning. So maybe, maybe Francis will make it. We'll see who's next on your list. Can I ask a question about 35 over 35 first? Sure. Yeah. So is 35 eligible because 35 was not eligible for 35 under 35.

Yes, 35 is eligible. Okay. Do you think there's anybody who will fall like between the cracks where they like weren't yet? They were, you know, like. Well, I a little bit did, which is why I was asking. But now I'm like, now I'm squarely eligible for 35 over 35.

I mean this with all the love and the respect in the world. You're not making either list. There's just no chance. I had a better chance on the previous list, but whatever. Just from a numbers perspective. Okay. At least we've established that. Next on my list.

Had to. Aubrey Plaza. Happiest season. I think if your performance can make the internet collectively lose its mind for two days because you were so good that everybody wanted you to win the rom-com and end up with the heroine, then you deserve recognition. It's hard to do that. I think that there's actually like, it can be a credit to the writing and to the world

and to the investment in the rom-com, you know, to the film itself. People have to like buy into the film in order to have these extremely strong opinions. But I think you got to hand it to Aubrey Plaza, who is extremely charming and effective and launched a thousand, a million tumblers with her character and really just upended the happiest season narrative. So congratulations to Aubrey Plaza. Let me ask you a question about this. Yeah. Is there another example in rom-com history of a character who the lead character

so clearly should have chosen, but didn't? Yeah. Who's an example of that? Well, not so clearly. And again, frankly, I think in Happiest Season, there are people who are like, should she so clearly, you know, relationships are complicated. You're supposed to have the conversation. I'm team Riley. No question.

Sure. I think that's fine. But like within also you have to remember, you have to remember you're within the logic of the rom-com world where all the relationships are just like a nightmare and made up. Right. And it's like, they're not things that you would put up with in real life because they aren't healthy relationships, but we just kind of, they're either a vehicle to exploring ideas about relationships and, or they're from the nineties.

And we just kind of got to forget that it happened. And also the, the logic of the rom-com says that the two people have to end up together. They have to end up together. You have to buy into that in order to be on the rom-com journey. I think Aubrey Plaza is great at this. That's why I'm honoring her.

But yeah, there are plenty of examples of like the also-rom. I mean, Patrick Zempsey is a really, really famous example in Sweet Home Alabama. And also, by the way, he's Candace Bergen's son in that movie, just to bring it all together. Candace Bergen's pretty good in that movie. The expanded Amanda Dobbins universe. Yeah.

You know, another one, and this isn't really a romantic comedy, but The Notebook. I think you have to feel for the James Marsden character in that one. He didn't really do anything wrong um I think there are there are a few more I'm trying to think you know obviously my best friend's wedding like plays on this a bit this is what I was thinking of was my best friend's wedding one of my favorites so yes I think for a really good romantic comedy. Oh, Bridget Jones diary. That's another one where she shouldn't really end up with Hugh Grant because he is a bad person and don't date your boss. That's a real 90s thing that's happening.

But also he's Hugh Grant. So that's pretty nice. I don't know. It's not a good rom-com if the rival can't bring a little spice to the equation. Otherwise, what are we doing? Okay, I'll take your word for it. Happiest season. Again, just amazing the way that that movie

just stoked so much conversation in a way that it never could have if it opened in theaters. Can you tell I'm just completely tortured by all this stuff, the way that it's affecting the way that we view movies now? Yes, I can. But also remember you started this conversation. I mean, if, if people see Ma Rainey and they weren't going to see it in theaters, like that's great. So if people are going to see this stuff, my thing is just like, make the streaming movies good. Happiest season,

Palm Springs are so much better than all the straight to streaming romantic comedies. Okay. Like we can do this, spend a little more money. Write that script. Edit that script. Hire someone to do the lighting. You guys can do it. I believe in you. Are you speaking to me or are you speaking to the screenwriters

listening to this podcast? What's happening? I don't know. I'm just like, or to the people who are funding it. I'm just, I have a platform and I'm trying to make my case.

That's all. You're like a deranged town crier. Okay. Okay, let's go to make my case. That's all. You're like a deranged town crier. Okay. Okay, let's go to the next performance. I'm going with Orion Lee from First Cow, which we were just talking about because it won the New York Film Critics Circle Award and is a movie we talked about a lot this year.

And I think John Magaro, the co-star of the movie, is equally as good, but Orion Lee is somebody I'd never seen before and who appears in the movie about a third of the way through and just energizes the movie. And his friendship with the John Magaro character is essentially the story that powers the film. And they form this bond and they form this business partnership and they form this living arrangement and they become inextricable from one another for good and bad but orion lee has a kind of like a wide-eyed giddiness about opportunity about everything

that america could potentially provide and he seems to be the kind of person who sees the bright side and also sees all the angles and he's just a terrific actor and a person that you you kind of can't take your eyes off of when he's in the middle of the movie. And this is, you know, a very slow and quiet film in a lot of ways, but he is as close to a lightning rod as it has, aside from that cow.

Shout out to the cow, the first cow. But I really like him and I was struck by him right away and I was struck by him the second time that I watched this movie. And I hope to see more of Orion Lee in the future. There's great friend chemistry in that movie, but I think

a lot of it is also, it's like the yearning to be closer to the Orion Lee character, which animates a lot of it and that's a testament to him and how appealing he is. Absolutely. They make a, the movie is basically a podcast now that I think about it. You know, it's just two friends in a shack just recording their thoughts no i would love to have some of

those tasty cakes right now or whatever those are good yeah those are really good okay my next pick is uh someone who we talked about already on this podcast it's maria bakalova from borat subsequent movie film i just like a really classic fire debut from someone. Someone that I have never seen before on film. Perhaps you have. I had not. And who's just hanging with Sacha Baron Cohen in Borat. And who is involved in some of the film's, really all of the film's most important scenes,

including the Rudy Giuliani scene, which I will never watch again. And hopefully we'll never have to think about him again. But it's tremendous. She just shows up and doesn't blink. And that's incredibly hard. That's hard comedically. That's hard just in terms of being like a person without fear and is extremely funny. And the film doesn't literally doesn't work without her because it's about her. And it's also, you can't have the Borat Borat character in 2020 without someone to,

to help adjust all of the, to his fame. So I think that she will be in the Oscar conversation for sure. I would not be surprised if she's nominated. And I think that she will be in the Oscar conversation for sure. I would not be surprised if she's nominated. And I think that would be fun. I think it'd be great. I mean, you're absolutely right. He needed a sleeper agent of some kind, somebody who could kind of backfill now that Sasha

Baron Cohen became so famous. And, you know, it doesn't work if she's not as good as he is at this kind of comedy, which is improvisatory, which is deep character focus, which is genuinely weird and really, you know, working very blue and like gross at times and fearless. I mean, she's just a typical fearless comic actress. And I'd never seen her before either. She's a Bulgarian actress. She's only 24 years old. You know, Sasha Baron Cohen's a man in his 40s who's incredibly experienced at comedy, and they put her in a position to succeed, and she crushed it.

She's really, really great. I don't know. Borat 2 being good and working and, like, being a noisy movie that came out this year, I never would have guessed it. I just never would have guessed it. Same for all of 2020. I guess that's the only way in which that makes sense is that there's nothing that we would have guessed it. Same for all of 2020. I guess that's the only way in which

that makes sense is that there's nothing that we would have guessed this year. Speaking of not guessing, well, that's not true. I did guess Jesse Buckley was going to be one of my favorite actors in many years after I saw Wild Rose. And that has turned out to be the case as she was the star of, I'm thinking of Ending Things, Charlie Kaufman's great adaptation of Ian Reid's novel. This is another divisive movie do you see that recently IndieWire put together a collection of filmmakers having a conversation with Charlie Kaufman basically about

how wonderful his movie is it was pretty interesting folks like Richard Linklater participated and were just like here's why this movie is good fascinating conversation anyhow Jesse the movie doesn't work without Jesse Buckley playing the lead role of the woman whose name changes many times over because she is in fact a manifestation of someone else's psyche. And nevertheless, I think Jesse Buckley, who's

not an American actress, has to play a woman from the Midwest and also Pauline Kael and also a schizophrenic delusion. And that's not easy. And she has to also play the Midwest and also Pauline Kael and also a schizophrenic delusion. And that's not easy. And she has to also play the expectations and the desires of a sad person. And it's hard. And on the one hand, you know, you've been a little bit critical of the movie. And I think that it's understandable to say, this is not a real person. And so what is this? But on the other hand, imagine being an actor and being asked to do that, you know, being asked to try to represent an idea, represent a delusion. It's hard. It's and it's fascinating.

And I just I really like her. I think she's another person who all the people on my list, and I'm sure this is true for the people on your list, are all people who I can't wait to see more from. Or I'm like, wow, I had no idea they could do that. And in both cases, that's true of both cases for Jesse Buckley here. I admire Jesse Buckley very much. And also, I had forgotten about the Pauline Kael aspect of this character. And I just the Pauline Kael in 2020 moment is wow. I'm having to think about it right now, live as we're podcasting.

And in a lot of ways, the Jesse Buckley character in the Charlie Kaufman movie confirms everything else that's happened on the Pauline Kael narrative discourse. That's fine. What a time that we live in. I think she's great. She's fantastic. Did you see that she and my beloved Josh O'Connor are doing a Romeo and Juliet for, I believe, the National Theater. And it's going to be live streamed next year. I'm unbelievably excited for that, as you can imagine. Wow.

Get you a woman who can do classical Shakespeare. Get you a woman who can do Kaufman scripts. Get you a woman who can sing country music in a Scottish accent. I mean, five to a player. Jessie Buckley kicks ass. My next pick is another person we've discussed

on this episode and this podcast and we will continue to whether the rest of you like it or not. And that is Amanda Seyfried in Mank who was excellent in Mank.

And I kind of think like a deceptively excellent performance because she's doing Marion Davies and she's doing like the surface level fun. She embodies a lot of the like, oh, wow, we love old Hollywood, like nostalgia stuff that is like an aspect of what Fincher is doing and make, but that he's also turning on its head and she is actually doing, turning it on its head a bit as well. It just takes you a while to realize what's beneath the charm and the effervescence. And I think she communicates that while also communicating the charm and the effervescence. She's also in my favorite movie scene of the year, or at least one of them, which is that walk in San Simeon

with Gary Oldman. And I was surprised when she was cast in Mank. I can't say that I was expecting for her to be as great as she is, and I thought she was great. And if she wins an Oscar, it's great by me. It's starting to feel like Mank is the once upon a time in Hollywood of this year where they have identified one key performer who will win a lot of awards and who will be the focus of the awards campaign, which is kind of fascinating. She's definitely worthy. She's great as Marion Davies and always a performer that I have liked, but has clearly never been challenged to do something quite like this. So cool to see her get that opportunity. Can I give you one quick update on the Mank

discourse? Sure. So it's just a personal update. I texted my father being like, have you watched Mank yet? Like, what do you think about Mank? Because I wanted him to know. And so for the past three days, he's just been sending me various reviews and like history about Mank, but will not tell me what he thinks about it like i can't break through i just don't know what my dad he will not review mink for me is he in a way is he in the research phase or has he seen the thing i can't tell i think he has seen it because he was like i'm gonna reactivate my netflix this is another thing where he unsubscribes and subscribes back to netflix in order to get the most out of his dollar.

And for like, yeah, but he is like participating in his own Mank discourse to me via text message without actually having an opinion. I just I don't know what he thinks about this movie. It's driving me insane. Dad, if you're listening, which I know you're not, please tell me what you think of Mank. I'll tell you what I think of Mank. It's good. Yeah. Okay. Should I do my next pick go for it my next pick is vince vaughn in a movie called freaky

i don't you didn't watch this did you i meant to it was not like i no it's not too scary it looks funny and it you know as long as it's as long as you're in on the joke then i'm fine with it i meant to and i just it slipped by the wayside. It's entertaining. I would say it comes from a guy named Christopher Landon, who I interviewed on the show, who is probably best known for the Happy Death Day movies, which I think are really, really good. I think that they are the kind of self-aware horror comedies that I love. This is in the same tradition.

I don't think it's as effective, although I didn't see this movie in a movie theater, and his movies are great in movie theaters and this movie which is a typical body swap comedy mixed with a with a over-the-top serial killer horror movie slasher movie um is pretty effective and vince vaughn is hilarious he is brilliant and vince vaughn i think we've taken for granted the fact that he was one of the key comic actors of the early to mid 2000s and had kind of gone away from that for a while was doing some kind of grim grungy kind of masculine action crime movies like you know brawl and sell block 99 this is like a return to form for him where he has to essentially embody a 15 year old girl. And I think he's weirdly great at it. And it actually makes me a little bit concerned for

him in general as a human, but otherwise it's a fun movie. I think if you're, if you're looking to kill 90 on, on, on a slow night over the holidays, it's, it's worth it. Okay. I'll put it on the list. Okay. It sounds funny. it sounds funny it's funny um yeah my next pick is i think that this is shared and this is sort of a yeah this is shared and this is so it's uh yaya abdul-matin from trial of chicago 7 and for me this is the standout pick from trial of chicago 7 which is a hard title to say. I'm not learning. The rural juror? It is like my rural juror. I should probably do some enunciation exercises. Anyway,

for me, this is the sole pick because I do find in an ensemble film, there's always one person who just jumps off the screen and who really has it. And for me, immediately, Yahya Abdul-Mateen, his Bobby Seale, was the person. I think also a little bit because of history and a little bit because of the filmmaker's choices, he is like aside from the other seven. And he uses that, I guess. And also probably it just makes you focus on his performance a little bit more. But I am a student of Sorkin. I think he both nails the Sorkinism. Especially, you know, in that first opening scene when they're cutting between all of the characters and it's like 10 walk and talks at once.

And he's very funny in that. And he's fully in the rhythm but can also bring like the gravitas and the next level that maybe isn't even there on the page in the Sorkin. I thought he was extraordinary. I mean, this one, when we saw the film, I was like, oh, he'll win an Oscar. And it seems like they're going to run different people. And it's obviously there are many actors in this movie who would be eligible in the supporting role. But he's my pick. Yeah, it's a tricky one just from ancar perspective in terms of who's going to be

recognized and how because i don't i don't know what they do i think everyone is running and supporting and i think amongst the academy sasha baron cohen will be appealing to me personally my order of of celebration would be yaya abdul-mateen then Mark Rylance, then Sacha Baron Cohen, in terms of the performances I liked best. But Sacha is much more famous. Mark Rylance already has a Best Supporting Actor Oscar. And Yahya,

his character leaves the movie about two-thirds of the way through. And that scene, and that whole sequence is, I think, probably the most upsetting but also maybe the most effective in the movie but also you don't walk out of the movie thinking about him you know or at least you know you and i may have but not everybody will and best supporting actor is kind of interesting it's um i mean i think the category right now

is leslie odom jr for one night in miami sasha Baron Cohen, Mark Rylance, and Yahya Abdul-Mateen, and then Chadwick Boseman for Defy the Bloods, Bill Murray for On the Rocks, and David Strathairn for Nomadland. That's probably like the seven that are going to compete. And in Strathairn and Murray, you've got two guys who I don't think Strathairn's ever won an Oscar. I don't think either of them has ever won an Oscar. And they're both really respected. But those films,

whether these are like the right movies for them to have won, who knows? I don't know. It'll be, it'll be interesting to see. I, I, yeah,

yeah. It feels like the person who's most at risk of not being nominated. And I hope that's not the case. Cause I think he's really terrific on this movie too. My next pick is Julia Garner for The Assistant, which is a movie that I have not seen in 14 months. And so perhaps it is slipping from my memory a little bit. I first saw it with our friend Gilbert Cruz

at the Telluride Film Festival, where we had left a movie, a movie had just ended and we were like, what can we watch to kind of fill the next two hours of our time? And we stumbled into the first screening of the assistant i think it was the first ever screening at any festival of the movie knew very little about it could only find a seat in the front row of the theater and saw it and was pretty was really impressed was really impressed with the movie in general was really impressed with the way that it was tangling

with this obviously hugely important me too story in the aftermath of everything with harvey weinstein and julia garner plays a woman who works as an assistant for a weinstein-esque producer figure in the movie world um but julie the camera is on julia garner almost the entire film and tracking her as she goes about her day working for this monstrous person and what it's like to be in an environment like this, where you are silenced and intimidated and bullied throughout your professional life and also forced to observe and say nothing about terrible things. That's another huge part of this is being kind of complicit against your own desire in this terrible system. And I'm not an Ozark person, but I know Ozark people are like,

wake up, Julia Garner has been out here doing great things. But I think she's really, really special in this movie. People should check it out. I think you can stream it on Hulu right now if people haven't had a chance to see it. Yeah. It's extraordinary also because it's an all-in-one day movie, right? I also, I haven't seen it since, I believe,'s an all in one day movie, right? I also, I haven't seen it since I believe January, this is one of the last films that I saw in theaters.

And so it's a short period of time. And the change that this character goes through is both like no change at all. And also just like a fundamental shift in like her spirit, which you just watch like subtly behind the scenes. It's extraordinary. She's great. This is a shared one for sure. And I definitely recommend The Assistant.

Okay. What's your next pick? My next pick is Vanessa Kirby in Pieces of a Woman, which is a film that we have not really talked about. And I believe will be on Netflix later this year,

January 7th, beginning of next year. And this is a real, I'm rewarding the performance. Um, one, I think that there are aspects of this movie that are really powerful and aspects of this movie that don't work for me. Um, But I think that Vanessa Kirby in it is extraordinary. I mean, this is the Vanessa Kirby fan club on this podcast. Let's be real. I think she can do anything but what she chooses to do in this. And specifically, the first 20 minutes of this film, which I won't really spoil,

but it was something I'd never really seen on film in this way. And the physicality of her performance, as well as the emotional nature of it is extraordinary. And I'm a huge fan of hers. I love her as well. I have the exact same feelings about the movie. I think some of it is overwhelmingly powerful and subtle and deep in a way that I,

about a lot of things I didn't really understand. And some of it is kind of like almost preposterous in the way that it's executed. And so it's executed and so it's a it'll be a confusing conversation around the movie but i think most people think that she's going to compete for awards and you know vanessa kirby you are you are the crown's number one fan i am mission impossible fallout's number one fan so there's there's a lot of a mutual appreciation society going on there and i want nothing but the best for her um

we're almost done here but we have a couple of special awards to give out. We do. I'm going to give out my special award now. It's a special achievement in middle-aged men who drink too much and must reckon with that in one way or another. There's a three-way tie for this award. Three of my favorite performances of the year, all in three different movies that have three completely different tones.

But they're all about guys who maybe have had a few too many and there have been some ramifications on their life. On the lighthearted side, there's Bill Murray in On the Rocks. Obviously,

the title itself is a play on the fact that sitting with your daughter and having a couple of drinks and having a couple of laughs and treating life as a walk through the breeze seems nice and seems inviting and is maybe not the best way to live your life. And the Bill Murray character in Sofia Coppola's movie is really interesting because

it's basically just Bill Murray at 11. It's the person we imagine Bill Murray to be, who is dancing through the raindrops, like the person who, when he gets pulled over, can charm a police officer and talk his way out of a ticket. He's the kind of person who can jet set down to Mexico at the drop of a hat and stay at the finest villa and chat up every single person on vacation seamlessly um there's obviously a downside and a dark side to the way that he is living his life and the relationship he has with his daughter and that kind of take you know we start to learn about that as the film goes on but i think it's a even though bill murray does hit the bill murray charm like no other um i think there's a lot of skill that goes into this kind of a performance i don't think this movie has been seen by a lot of people, honestly. It's kind of how it feels right now. And so it's maybe not getting the

kind of attention it would. It's almost the inversion of the Happiest Season thing, where everybody watched Happiest Season and they all had an opinion about it. And very few people have Apple TV Plus, is my understanding. And so not as many people are talking about this, but I wanted to shout him out. The next two are much less breezy. The first one is a movie. I don't think we've talked about it all in the show, which is another round, which is Thomas Vinterberg's,

the Danish filmmakers, wonderful new movie. And it stars Mads Mikkelsen as a middle-aged man who is a teacher in a school in Denmark. And it's going through kind of a midlife crisis and trying to figure out like who he is and what he wants out of his life and the state of his marriage and his fatherhood and his career. And decides that he and his friends are going to start day drinking on a regular basis. And that, in fact, maybe drinking will enliven their spirits, make them more creative, engaged souls in the universe. And for a long time throughout the movie it works. And getting hammered in the middle of the day and speaking

to his students and engaging with his children and you know, talking and communicating with his wife is going well. And then until it doesn't go well, obviously. Mads Mikkelsen, who usually plays in America evil geniuses and serial killers and is always the villain of some kind

is kind of the opposite here. He's a hugely empathetic figure and a really graceful and funny performer. And also, I don't know if you've seen this yet, but this movie has the best final five minutes of a movie I've seen this year. It's a complete joy to me to watch Mads Mikkelsen do what he does at the end of this movie.

The third winner of this award is much more downbeat. It's Ben Affleck in the way back. I have screamed up and down in 2020 about how good Ben Affleck is in the way back. I don't know why this movie was released in March as opposed to in September or October when there could have been an awards campaign for his performance, but it was, I think this is maybe not a subtle performance, but it is a very good performance in the tradition of Rainbowland in the last weekend about a man who drinks too much and it sends his life spiraling and he has to pull himself out of the hole that he has dug. And he's Ben Affleck. He is the patron saint of

the big picture. So shout out to him and shout out to this award. Always shout out to Ben Affleck. I like that. It's nice that he's the patron saint of this podcast. I accept that. I, too, have a special award. It's for a special achievement in kid acting, which is an underrated category. I was just thinking, remember when we made up the Oscars? I guess it was in this calendar year with Wesley. And we did have a kid actor award. And then there was some confusion about who should win the kid actor. That was a fun day.

Great podcast. That was fun. Yeah, that was fun. So I have two winners for this special kid acting award because, you know, children should learn to share. The first, as you previously referenced,

is Alan Kim in Minari, who plays the young son of Steven Yeun. And he is the protagonist in a lot of ways of Minari, I would say. Yeah. And, well, it's ways of Minari, I would say. Yeah. And well, it's kind of told through what he's experiencing. And he just absolutely like pulled my heart out and then just like threw it in a cold, icy parking lot and Sundance.

Like I vividly remember walking out of the movie with you and just being like, I don't know what to do. That kid broke my heart. He's tremendous. And then a late breaking winner, Helena Zengel in News of the World, which is the Paul Greengrass, Tom Hanks movie, which I hadn't watched the trailer for News of the World before watching the trailer. And so when I was just like, oh, this is about Tom Hanks reading the news to people. That was like a real, I was shocked by that. It's about more than that. But for the first 10 minutes when I was just like, oh, he just reads the news to people.

I was like, wow, this is the most Tom Hanks movie of all time. A lot of it centers on a relationship between Tom Hanks' character and a young child played by Helena Zenger, who's a German kid actress. And I thought she was exceptional. And basically when a movie ends and I'm like, wow, great kid acting, then the person was eligible for this award. And that was the two times this happened this year. So congratulations to the children. They're both great.

Helena Zengel in particular, I think, is another case where the movie doesn't work if she's not good and she can't form a bond with Hanks. And that's a very interesting movie. I talked to Greengrass. That interview will appear on the show later this week. I think it's going to be in theaters on Christmas

and I would imagine that it will be able to be viewed at home about 17 days later based on the way that Universal has been rolling these movies out. So in January, if you want to see a new Tom Hanks Western, there will be one directed by Paul Greengrass, which is, again, another extraordinary thing that's happening. And that just about does it. I mean, do you want to cite any honorable mentions? Is there, I mean, we just named like 35 film performances in this podcast that are all awesome. It's been a good year for acting if nothing else. Yeah, no, I think, I mean,

you have a long list here and I kind of, when I opened the document and you had like 45 names in here, I added what I felt strongly about. And then I come kind of, when I opened the document and you had like 45 names in here, I added what I felt strongly about and then I'm kind of letting you go with the honorable mentions. So you just go ahead. I don't need to run down my full honorable mentions unless we've named so many, but I do want to shout out Bill Burr and Marissa Tomei in The King of Staten Island, about whom I wish that movie was. I wish that that movie was called The King and Queen of Staten Island and it was about Bill Burr and marissa tomei because that would have been a wonderful movie and um i i just i really love what they did uh there's there's so much more big picture coming this week amanda should we preview what we're going to be doing absolutely you can also remind me what order it's going in

because at this moment i just have a lot of spreadsheets or a lot of documents open and i don't remember well on wednesday we get a new George Clooney movie. The Midnight Sky is hitting Netflix. And so we are going to build what I think is going to be one of the most challenging halls of fame ever, which is the George Clooney Hall of Fame. We're going to go through his entire filmography as an actor and as a director. And we're going to pick 10 films. And films only.

So don't, you know, all respect to ER. I'll do this disclaimer again at the beginning of the podcast. Films only. I just want to say right now, I feel that I personally have a lot of clarity about this. So that's going to be interesting when we do this Hall of Fame. You have a lot of clarity about it. Yeah, I do. But I'm preparing for you trying to get every oceans movie on the

list i'm no i'm not gonna do that because i think i i might advocate for one of them okay but yeah it's you know my enthusiasm for oceans 12 is as a piece of filmmaking whatever i don't want to do this again i'm still so mad like i'm so i'm mad about that. And then we did the TV concierge episodes and you just threw a damn tantrum because I made you like follow reason and common sense. And you took away one of my greatest joys and beliefs, which is that Ocean's 12 is one of Steven Soderbergh's major accomplishments.

And I just let you do it. When we stop recording, I'm going to need you to hit up miriamwebster.com and check out the definition of the word tantrum and see if I have ever thrown a tantrum on this podcast or any other. Unless I'm talking about the Jets. That actually isn't going to be the last podcast we do this week, though. There will be another podcast on Christmas Day if you would like to hear our feelings about Wonder Woman 1984, which will be available

on HBO Max on Christmas Day you can listen to that if you want to wait if you want to spend the day with your family your loved ones rather than you and I I don't begrudge you that but if you don't listen on the 26th

I'm going to be upset because we're working overtime here to make a good movie podcast for you until then I'll see you for about 100 more recordings this week soon amanda thank you and thank you to bobby wagner see you soon on the big picture you