The Big Picture - Top Five Denzel Washington Movies and ‘The Little Things'

Episode Date: January 29, 2021

With the release of ‘The Little Things' on HBO Max, Denzel Washington's first starring role in almost three years, it's time to celebrate one of the world's greatest living actors. Joining Sean and Amanda is Ringer staff writer and Denzel superfan Shea Serrano to break down his remarkable career and share their top five Washington performances. Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guest: Shea Serrano Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Sean Fennessy. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about Denzel Washington. Joining us today on the show is Shea Serrano. We are going to be breaking down the life, career, work, and top five movies of really one of our greatest living actors. It's all coming up right now on The Big Picture. and super savings. Try it today and get up to $75 in PC Optimum Points. Visit superstore.ca to get started. What up, Shay? Welcome back to the show.

What up, baby? How are you? I'm good. I'm very excited. When we started talking about Denzel and we saw that The Little Things, his new movie, would be going directly to HBO Max, there was only one guy I thought of, and that was you. Yes. So, you know, I want to talk about all things Denzel, where he comes from, where he's at in his career right now, what you guys both think about him and the stages of his career. But Shay, I'll start with you. When I say Denzel, what do you think? I think the greatest actor that we have ever had in our lifetimes, in any lifetime, I think he's the first one you have to pick. He's certainly my first one I have to pick.

There's like, you know, three or four who are in the conversation. Anytime you get to the, we're talking about the greatest ever of like anything, there's three or four who have like a legitimate shot at it. It's him, it's Daniel Day-Lewis, it's Meryl Streep, and probably Tom Hanks. Like it's got, you know, those four are in the very, very top. So you're going to pick from one of those. But for my money, Denzel is that dude. He just does all of the things I'd need for a movie star to do. Amanda, what about you when I say Denzel?

Yeah, I agree. He is certainly top of the list for me as well. The thing about denzel is that he is both like an actor actor and a movie star and like yes sometimes you get like you get one you get the craft you get the stage you get the method daniel day is certainly in that and sometimes you just get like the one name only and denzel is both just a tremendous craftsperson and someone who can do a lot of different things and also like he is denzel and when you see his name i like i can hear the cadence of his voice you know because it's so specific and i see like i see not just his smile but like that one smile that he gives like right before everything is going to go terribly wrong for the person on the receiving end of the smile you know and i like he can make you both feel that smile

and just like envy it, which is another thing. I mean, it's, you know, it's charisma. He makes the energy of the camera just turn. It's a singular talent. I'm a massive fan. Yeah, me too. You know, the thing with him is, I think we measure movie stars by what we're willing to

pursue in terms of what they want to do. So some movie stars, some famous actors like to challenge themselves, like to take on challenging parts, like to do strange films, unusual work. Denzel is one of the only people alive who I say to myself, I will just watch him in anything. And that's not even this. And you have. And I have. I mean, I've definitely seen. Well, actually, Shea has too.

And I think I want to hear from Shea about the early stages of Denzel because there is a period of his career that is not as seen. But I definitely have seen every single thing he has made since 1985. And I don't know. I'm not sure if I can say that for very many people. You know, certainly Tom Hanks is in that realm, like you're saying, Shay. That is kind of a Mount Rushmore of people who you're definitive about, but the other thing about Denzel is he's so prolific. I mean, he makes basically a movie a year for 35 years, so you have this extraordinary body of work to look at, and

frankly, it's not necessarily all good. A lot of it is not good, but his work is almost always good or at least entertaining in a way. And so he really is singular in that way to me. I can't think of very many people who I say, I've definitely seen 55 movies that this person has made. 25 of them might not be good at all. And yet I've almost enjoyed all of them because there is this factor. There is this indefinable thing at the center of it that is appealing to you. Shade, am I overstating the fact that

he's maybe not made as many good movies as some of his contemporaries? He's never made a bad movie. I disagree with you. I disagree with you there. I was talking about this the other day with somebody. Denzel Washington is the one person who if you put all of the like everything they've worked on into a hat and we're just like we're gonna pick one thing out of here it doesn't matter what you pick because it's going

to have him in it and that's and that's all you need even the worst of his movies he has made not i don't want to say made he's been in some bad movies. But like you're saying, he's never been bad in them. He gives his everything to whatever it is he's doing, which is why I think you get a movie like whatever, like Fallen, which should have been a total stinker. And it's Denzel Washington versus a demon. And he's really fighting that demon in that movie. Like you feel it. You feel

it. And every movie that he does, he like, you know, he goes out there and he does all of his like Denzel tricks and you just start to believe whatever's happening. And for an hour and a half, two hours, two and a half hours, you just get to watch him. And it's incredible. Let's just quickly talk through Denzel's bio, because one of the things that I think is a little bit lost about him is that he really didn't get mega famous in the United States as a movie actor until he was about 34, 35 years old. And so he has this entire, obviously his life before he becomes a professional actor. And born in Mount Vernon, New York and raised there. His mom owned a beauty parlor. His father was a minister and a city employee. He's a child of divorce, like Amanda and I, and went to prep

school at 14 and kind of cites that as probably the most significant thing that happened to him in his youth because he said it basically took him off the streets. And after graduating from high school, he enrolled in Fordham and he wanted to be a journalist like us. And I'm grateful that he did not pursue that line of work. Imagine a Denzel podcast right now. He would be so good. He would be. Imagine like having to stare him down if you were like a city official or a coach and he was grilling you with questions you would lose every time. And he also, you know, Shay, I did not know this. Maybe you did. And I presume you did not know this because you weren't following the Fordham basketball team, uh, box scores in the 1970s, but, uh, he played hoops under PJ Carlissimo at Fordham. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. You didn't know that. Of course you didn't know that. He's, he's a good basketball player. I think you and I, we were in like a private conversation mentioning him playing basketball and like he, the first time i saw him do it was in the george mckenna story i believe he has like a basketball scene in there and he's like

getting up i like it you see somebody shoot a jump shot that's how you know if they played basketball or not and he's up off the ground shooting the and you're like oh shit novice question though as i was re-watching he got game um has has his three-point style like and his arms been covered as like a as a topic of discussion oh he cocks that thing back because it's like literally like an overhead style okay I just wanted to make sure that that's like because I was like that's unusual yeah I think I think that's generational you know we didn't have the Steph Curry flick quick release strategy back in the 70s. So he was following the greats back then.

And so he catches the acting bug. He moves away from sports. He moves away from journalism. He enrolls in the American Conservatory Theater in San Francisco, spends a year there, and then a few years later finds himself on a TV show called St. Elsewhere. And he's on St. Elsewhere, which was, for those of you who don't know, was a massive television show in the 1980s set in a hospital. And really, ER before ER in many ways. And that was where he was. And in some ways, he was kind of Clooney before Clooney, one of the stars of a hospital drama on a network who magically transitioned

to movie stardom. And that transition is super interesting. He did appear in some movies in the 80s. As soon as I hit up Shay to talk about this and say like, hey, do you want to do this pod with us? You immediately went to like identifying films that were made in 1983 that I've not even heard of that Denzel was participating in. But this being a movie podcast, let's talk about the movies. So beyond just the charisma, Amanda, that you're talking about, what is it about him as an actor? What do you think he is able to do that separates him from pretty much everybody else that we're discussing here? There's a control in all of his performances. And that just that doesn't mean that he is like reserved or grounded all of the time,

though. You know, I think that's kind of the starting style for Denzel and then he's able to fluctuate and, you know, and he can give you those, those spike moments and they, you know, from, from, from small confrontations on like insane crimson tide to obviously like training day. And I think probably his single most famous scene, but it is all, it's not just that it's, he's in control and he's choosing all of those moments, but which is the sign of a good actor. But I think there's also, that's like the quality of his performance. And as a person who just, who likes everything to be under control, who doesn't want too much vulnerability, unless it's like being given to you purposefully. I

really appreciate that. What about for you, Shay? What are some specific acting qualities that you think he brings to the table that very few can? I think you were sort of hinting at it in the beginning when you were talking about his ability to just be a movie star. You watch him in a thing and you just, for me, anytime I've seen him in anything, no matter what role it is he's playing, he is just obscenely cool in it, but also somehow still accessible. And that's a really hard trick for people to pull off. He seems like somebody who's going to get in your ear and build up your confidence a little bit. That's the kind of top level cool movie star that he is walking phoenix as a is a good example of somebody who has the opposite

kind of energy i would never want to be in the same room as walking phoenix for a second i thought you were like walking phoenix is also someone you want to have in your ear and i was like wow i do not feel the same absolutely not you watch him you watch him like commit himself to a role whatever the joker is probably the easiest example where you're like he he puts on a fucking acting clinic in this movie he's just going for it but i never wanted to like be around him ever denzel washington even in his most sinister moments even then he got game or training day or whatever i want to be around him i want him to be my friend. It's the same sort of thing you get when you watch LeBron James play basketball. Remember when they were in the finals and he had fucking Matthew Delvedova and he was like,

you're the Curry stopper. You're on the same level. He was in his year and Dele was playing great. Dele was really believing that shit because you have the greatest basketball player on the planet telling you. Denzel to me feels the same way. I watch him in a movie and I'm just like, damn, if I could be in his gravity, I'd probably be 15% cooler immediately. You know what I'm saying? That's such an interesting way to put it for him too, because a lot of times when I think of him, I don't think of Denzel as a generous actor. I don't think he's ungenerous necessarily, but he's just got so much power and so much strength on screen. And he's so charming.

And he always plays such smart men. He always plays men who seem to have the solutions. And it's rare that you find like a training day role where he doesn't necessarily come out the other side for the better. And that's, you know, a lot of that is professional strategy too, you know, saying like of that is strap professional strategy to, you know, saying like, I, this is how I want to portray myself on screen. This is how it's important

that I be seen on screen is to be someone who can not just save the day, but solve the problem. And I think consistently picking parts where he is not just at the center of the problem, but that at the center of solving the problem, I think is, is fairly rare. There's only a handful of people I could really think of who consistently pursued that kind of approach, you know, like Spencer Tracy, Sidney Poitier, Gene Hackman. These are actors who, when you see them in movies, most of the time, especially in their sort of prime years, they are the engine for fixing things. They are the engine for, you know, getting to the other side of something terrible. And I don't know if that was a piece of advice that Denzel got at some point, or if that is something that he felt was important to him. And it's certainly a movie star trope is to say, you have to be in the center of the frame. He almost never plays supporting parts. And it's interesting that his career essentially gets launched as a movie star with two supporting roles in Cry Freedom as Steve Biko and in Glory, for which he won an Oscar.

Because pretty much after that point, you see him pursue the lead. And if not the lead, the co-lead with somebody who is his equal, you know, Gene Hackman or Tom Hanks or a handful of other people on down the line. What do you think is animating that, Amanda? Well, a little bit is when he's becoming a movie star. And this is also when I, you know, discovered Denzel is like the early 90s. And it was also when I discover grownup movies, you know? And so I do associate him with that like 90s,

big tent studio drama with like all of the big name actors and we're going to you know come together and there's going to be a crisis and then like principled people will discuss it and probably fight and then solve it together and so some of it is just that that was a vehicle or a path to becoming a star and a leading man. And I think that's clearly what he wanted to be. So, but that's only one phase of his career. You know, there are like eight Denzels. There's also like the action star Denzel, which I think Shay will probably speak on at great length,

even though I have a lot of familiarity with it too. There are phases within action stardom. I think, you know, there, he works with a lot of the same directors over and over. So I think that this, the Spike Lee collaboration, which I think is his like most fruitful, at least as an actor, but you know, that, that spans, I guess, a decade or two decades, but those are also different phases. So he is also just trying a lot of things. I mean, if you make, what, 35, 40 movies in 35, 40 years, like how many different types of big budget movies do they make?

And that's another thing. He doesn't like he only does big budget movies. He doesn't do indies for the most part. He occasionally does like a play that's turned into a film because he does have that stage background. And I think like the theater is one of his personal passions as I understand it. But for the most part, he's just doing the big blockbuster that everyone was going to go see. So I don't know at some point, like for 20 years, that's all we made things with like guys and desks and cops and, and, and journalists and people solving the problems. And then they solved it.

Listen, I'm not complaining. I wish there were more movies about people solving problems now. Yeah, I'm fascinated by his versatility while also always being Denzel. You know, there are so few people I can think of who are able to kind of transform without losing sight of the fact that you're watching somebody singular. You know, Joaquin or Daniel Day, those people obviously disappear into their parts. Meryl Streep's really the only person I could think of, and she works harder to be a chameleon. She'll do prosthetics. She'll do an accent. She'll do all those things. Denzel has done those things over the years, but very rarely. In fact, he almost always looks like himself, sounds like

himself. And yet, you know, he'll do Shakespeare, you know, he'll do a Spike movie. He'll do a movie on a train with Tony Scott. He'll do a movie like Roman J. Israel Esquire, a kind of like character piece that is a transformative, but also still very Denzel-ish. Shay, why do you think he's been able to stay relevant, not just stay relevant, but really stay at the center of movie culture for these 35 years because he has he has that thing that everybody is sort of chasing after which is you just put a camera in front of him and you want to watch it doesn't matter what is going on to your point about him like playing a certain kind of of guy i think that speaks to the like that the essence of denzel washington it's the best kind of typecasting right there you're like we need somebody who's just like you got to feel like he's gonna figure it out and all right cool get denzel and boom it's

like when you want when when shay wiggum shows up in a movie and you're like oh it's probably corrupt corrupt cop like immediately you just look at his face and you're like, oh, he's probably a corrupt cop. Like immediately, you just look at his face and you're like, oh, that's an abusive dad. Like that's the kind of face that he has for movies. With Denzel, you look at him and you're like, this is a leading man who's going to figure out all of the stuff that he needs to figure out. And that's really hard to have in a movie star. Like I can't name you six other people who have that just like just by looking at before you even hear them speak just

look at them okay cool and he also uses that history and association that he's accumulated over time and over his career like i think like he is aware that there's like a denzel part and for the most part like the only reason a lot of these movies succeed is because we're all programmed to be like okay well Denzel is in this role and he's going to solve the problem and I'll just like I'll go with it and I think he knows that and then every once in a while he kind of trades on that and does something that is not the Denzel role or the Denzel role goes in a different way and I love it when actors do, when they are like aware of their persona and, and try to flip it a bit. The thing that, that Amanda said earlier, I thought was really insightful because I'd never considered this part of it. The, like the, the, the

emotional aspect of just sort of letting your guard down for a bit and, and, and handing over the sort of reins to your feelings to this guy because you know it's going to be okay. You know what I'm saying? You don't have to have your guard up. Denzel is in this scene. Denzel is in control of this scene. So I don't have to worry about protecting myself right now because Denzel's going to do that for me. I was talking to somebody about Denzel last night, and it occurred to me that there are two phases of the Denzel movie star career, and there are two specific approaches to those careers. And Amanda, what you just said reminded me of this, which is I feel like Denzel was 35 years old for 20 years, and I feel like he's been 55 years old for 20 years. Denzel is into his late 60s now, and he's still appearing really in action franchises,

which is kind of amazing. And in the early days, I think he was pursuing roles in historical dramas and portraying sort of cops and men in the military and these figures of nobility. And then he spent kind of the last 20 years, not entirely, but mostly portraying vigilantes, you know, people who like are seeking justice on behalf of someone else who has been wronged. And it's a,

it's an interesting subversion, you know, like, and training day obviously is probably the most significant example of that where he has built up for 20 years, this consciousness that we have as an audience about who he is and what kind of guy he plays. And then he blows it all up with one role,

you know, just by being the wolf. And you see this the first time you see him be the wolf, you're like, of course he's also the greatest wolf, but he's only the greatest wolf because he was in glory and he was in Malcolm X and he was in all of these films that made you see him as something more noble.

And that's not to say that the characters he played in the past weren't flawed, but they weren't, I mean, he's, they weren't's not to say that the characters he played in the past weren't flawed, but they weren't, I mean, he's, they weren't villainous the way that he is in Training Day. And it's an interesting move. And I think the very best actors know when to pull that trigger. You know, they know when to say,

it's time for me to switch it up. Yeah, the part in Training Day that always gets me, even, you know, we watched a bunch of the movies before we did this. And to your point here, watching him be the good guy for so long watching him sort of step into the end of that role you get in training day you're watching them do all this bad shit and even after he sets up jake to be killed and jake manages to wiggle his way out of it he gets to to the apartment and denzel is like congratulations

you did it you made it and i was still like oh that was all the truth like he still had me like you know you know what i'm saying after i just watched every i watched a murderer guy 10 minutes earlier and still in that moment he was cashing in his like good guy coupons and i was still accepting every single one i could get. Denzel has been nominated for a great many awards over the years. He is also one of the most decorated actors we have. I think he's got eight Academy Award nominations and he's got two wins for both Glory and Training Day. Terrible. He probably could have or should have more. He definitely should have won for Malcolm X and I'm sure we will discuss that at some point in this podcast. He definitely should have won for Malcolm X, and I'm sure we

will discuss that at some point in this podcast. He's got three Golden Globes. He's got a Tony, as Amanda mentioned. He's played some of the most significant figures on screen or on stage, really, in history. He's portrayed Richard III and Brutus and Hickey from Iceman Cometh. He really is committed to that. We'll soon see him in a movie as Macbeth, which should be very exciting. Cannot wait for that. Very exciting movie. And, you know, we're going to share our top fives and talk about what else makes him so special.

But I did think we should just devote a little bit of time to the bad movie Denzel. I either revisited or visited for the first time a handful of Denzel movies that I must have missed over the years, including movies like The Bone Collector and Virtuosity and Two Guns and Safe House and you missed those you didn't see those I was just thinking about Safe House the other day because I saw it the day that I moved to Los Angeles. We moved into our new house and this was 2012. And it was pre, we had internet, but not cable. And it was sort of at the dawn of VOD at that

time. And we just, I couldn't find a goddamn thing to watch. We'd flown out to LA and watched a bunch of movies on the plane. And I was like, let's screw it. Let's just go with Safe House. We're going to give this a try. You know, it's Denzel. It's this exciting young buck, Ryan Reynolds. And let me tell you, it sucked. It was pretty bad. But Denzel, you know, I certainly watched the whole thing and I was never bored. And I don't know what it is.

Maybe you guys see this a little more clearly than I do. But for, you know, Denzel obviously has impeccable taste. He's worked with some of the greatest filmmakers of all time. He is routinely recognized for the quality of his work. He makes a lot of serious films. But he also has a real taste for the mid-market kind of programmer, like the genre movie. And so, Shay, what is that?

Do you think that's what he grew up on that he digs? Do you think it's just a function of the Hollywood chains moving? I think what it is, I think in part at least, I think a part of it is if you are Denzel Washington, the greatest actor who has ever lived, you probably, like after a while, you just, that's your normal. That's your like default position at a default i'm the best person who has ever done this so you assume that other people are going to be somewhere close to that just because that's how people work like if you're a shitty person you assume everybody is shitty if you're like this great actor you assume everybody else can do what you

can do or at least approximate a version of it so you see a script where you're like, oh, okay, I'm this person. And there's a young agent and we're going to team up eventually. But first we're going to fight a little bit. You assume the other person is going to be able to do the stuff that you can do in that role. And then you get in there and then you see Ryan Reynolds act for 10 minutes. And you're like, wait, he probably can't do what I could do. Let me just try to carry the rest. You know what I'm saying?

I assume it's something like that. Ryan Reynolds just catching strays here on the pod. Ryan Reynolds is good when he needs to be good. Did you see him in Smoking Aces at the end when he's like crying in the room with a guy? That was fucking great. That was great. Give me more of that, Ryan Reynolds.

Should we derail this pod for a Smoking Aces pod? Amanda's out on that. Amanda, what do you think it is? I mean, maybe is it just the sheer volume of films that he's making or, you know, does Shay's theory make sense? I think it's volume and just, you know, strategy. I mean, Denzel Washington has been very successful in Hollywood, which is like very difficult to do. And, you know, he's been successful as a black actor in Hollywood, which has been like very difficult to do. And, you know, he's been successful as a black actor in Hollywood, which has been like incredibly difficult to do. So I think some of it is just, he likes, he likes to work and he wants to be. And on the, on the other side, I just, I do like to think he enjoys these movies. I like to think that's why he's doing it. You know, he does work

with a lot of the same directors. He works with a lot of good actors like they're the caliber of the cast is always higher than i feel it needs to be in these movies and i think it's just kind of like if denzel is gonna go to work he would like to have a nice time and why not and he can do that and like may we all get to a place where we can just be like let's make another shitty tony scott train movie with actors who are too good for this because we can. There's nothing shitty about any of the Tony Scott train movies. I just want to put that on the record. Let me just say, Shay said something because we're talking about the Bad Denzel movies.

And Shay said earlier that you could just put all of his movies in a hat and draw one out. Yes. And it would be great. And so we basically tested that theory in this house over the weekend. And Taking a Pelham 1, 2, 3 became the movie that we fixated on for some reason, I think, because like my husband in particular really likes the original. And I have to say, like, it was one of those things where I was Denzel is on the screen. And, you know, you do also know the formula of these movies.

And I think that's very comforting. And maybe also as an actor, that's a nice thing to be able to just get into the rhythm. So I didn't mind it. But I don't really know what's going on with that Travolta performance. And I didn't make it through the end of that particular movie.

But I wasn't mad though. So I guess it doesn't matter. Yeah, that's the thing. He rarely infuriates. Although maybe that will change with the little things. We can talk about that in a second. Shay, what's your favorite quote unquote bad Denzel movie? Just for the record, I don't think this is a bad movie.

I love this movie. I would love nothing more than to be like a B actor in a movie, a bad movie with Denzel Washington. That just seems like. I mean, same. Let's be very clear. Let's all do it. Let's just, I'll be an extra.

I'll, you know, wear a weird subway vest, whatever I have to do. My favorite, people say this is a bad denzel movie i think it's a good movie but my favorite one is out of time i love a good ticking clock movie i especially love denzel washington matched up against a ticking clock um it's it's just so much fun to watch watch him sort of like get washed up in the momentum of everything. And he's still, he's like a guy in a tidal wave who's still trying to build a house, is what it feels like in this movie. He's just, how's he going to do it?

He's got to figure out all these cool little tricks and things and whatever. I just, it's so much fun to watch. And also, you know, Sanaa's in it. Superman is in it. It's just, turn it on and let's get like swampy do in the air and go nuts. See, I don't categorize that one as bad. I think- Good.

You shouldn't. There are definitely some bad Denzel movies and I don't want to overstate this, but there are actually a lot more solid Denzel movies. There are like at least 15 movies that he has made that are not Oscar worthy, but are not as bad as like Virtuosity, which I thought was almost unwatchable. There are a lot of movies that are like- Are you nuts?

You're pro Virtuosity? Pro Virtuosity. I love Virtuosity. How can you not love Virtuosity? Jesus Christ. It's like the classic, it's a perfect 1995, here's what the internet is going to be like movie,

which is like all wrong and all stupid. Just couldn't get with it. Anyhow, I don't want to dedicate George too much but he just makes a lot of movies that I call first downers. That just move the chains. That just gets you to the next phase of your life. And Out of Time is

one of those. It's very solid. There are a bunch of them you mentioned fallen earlier i think fallen is very similar it's like but fallen is definitely not bad there's a ton of great actors in it to amanda's point he he draws you know quality people to every project um you know pelican brief to me is one of these maybe maybe one some of us like that a little bit more one that people say is good that i think is bad wow Wow. You guys are wrong, but that's fine. I agree.

But I mean, there are a bunch of these over the years. Book of Eli is like this. I think Courage Under Fire is like this. I think John Q is like this. These are good movies. They are quality entertainments that you can go to a movie on a date night and be like, I'm glad we did that. I'm glad we saw that cool movie that distracted me for a couple hours.

You know what I wonder if part of it is i think it might be like how's the way how's the way to explain this um okay denzel is just so good and he's capable of putting up a performance like a malcolm x or or a training day or uh or glory like an oscar level like just undeniable he's he's capable of doing that and i think after a while you just sort of if he doesn't do that in a movie or if the if the rest of the movie can't keep up with him if he doesn't have a viola davis in the movie with him like at fences it feels like you didn't quite get there you didn't win the championship you know why didn't jordan win the championship every year like that sort of thing um that maybe that's what it is so even like even his worst movies are still i think whatever i'll be bill simmons here there's still

like a 60 win season there are 58 win season his worst movies right no i think i think there's something to that i think sometimes it's about the quality of the collaborator. Sometimes it's just about the idea. A movie like Fallen can only be so good, as you pointed out. It's a movie about Denzel going toe-to-toe with a demon. That you never see. We don't even get to hear him or anything. That's right.

All you get to hear is that Rolling Stone song over and over again. You know, the other thing I just wanted to note before we start digging into some lists and the little things very briefly is, you know, this is also a person who I think takes on a lot of these movies so that he can do other things so that he can provide other opportunities.

I think he takes on a lot of these parts and gets his $20 million a movie quote every time so he can direct August Wilson adaptations so that he can, you know, try to platform people like Derek Luke to become potential movie stars in movies like Antoine Fisher, which he, you know, directed and produced.

You know, he's produced Ma Rainey's Black Bottom. Like he's obviously working kind of in tandem with the system here. And sometimes the work in Two Guns allows him to, you know, create something that is perhaps a little bit more meaningful or historically useful which is also something that like the great movie stars do is you know they

create this lineage two guns two guns is like the one movie i can remember where my uncle went to go see it and then he was like telling everybody's the best thing he'd ever seen like some people all of the all of all of the things that we're saying of like this my favorite Denzel movie, but this one is maybe like not seen as great. There's a whole other group of people who are like, that's their favorite movie. And the other ones we're talking about are not. Like Denzel just, everybody loves Denzel. There's a version of Denzel for every single person who likes any kind of movie. Like there are some movies that I love that i know both of you

two will hate there's some movies that you love that i'm not gonna like at all but we will all be able to get on this podcast here like denzel washington and we just all go yes yes whatever yes okay i don't think you've had a chance to see the little things amanda i don't know if you have i i have you have okay so then shea you, we're not going to spoil this movie for you, but I do think just for the listeners at home, because this is really, this is the movie event of the end of January. I thought we should discuss it very briefly. And it's an interesting portal, I think, into the conversation about what Denzel can and can't do and how he can lift or not lift a film. This is the new movie from John Lee Hancock, who's the director of

movies like The Blind Side and The Founder it's a serial killer movie it co-stars Rami Malek and Jared Leto you can watch it on HBO Max right now and it was written in 1990 and John Lee Hancock tried to get it made I think he had also just right around that time written a movie called

A Perfect World with Kevin Costner and Clint Eastwood a movie I love. Shay are you a Perfect World fan? It's okay okay oh wow damn that hurts um and he couldn't get the movie made and so for whatever reason 30 years later digging into the archives warner brothers decides it's time to buy this movie and and denzel is going to be the star of this movie as a police officer living in kern county essentially like a sheriff's deputy in kern county who comes back to lapd where he had once been a a detective sergeant and helping a a young hot shot detective solve a crime in an effort to resolve some some

problems from his past some some unresolved issues and man this movie is not good it's really it's not good let me just say this though in terms of the it's friday or saturday night and i just want to put something on that i've never seen that kind of scratches that go into the movie theater or just kind of like old school 90s, which this movie was written in the 90s. And you can tell itch. It definitely hits the spot. I spent the entire time. I was being like, this is not good, but I kept watching all of it. And again, you're glad to have Denzel back in your life. And I was glad to have like this, maybe not this type of movie, but this style of movie, even though I think most of it

does not work at all. It's incredibly watchable, just incredibly watchable. You will finish it on your first sitting. And I think a lot of people are going to watch it. And a big part of that, I think, is Denzel, even though this is certainly not the best script he's ever taken on. He is even doing stuff in a movie like this, which is clearly mediocre at best in terms of observing human behavior, in terms of what he does without having to talk on screen, the way that he looks at other actors, the kind of performances he evokes from other actors, the way he kind of internalizes information. He is still really, really at the top of his game in a weird way way even though this is

kind of a junkie pre-7 kind of crime thriller uh i i it's he's you know too good is probably a silly phrase for a movie that features two other academy award winners and rami malek and there is though there's one scene in this movie where they're all three on the screen and i this scene is uneven at best. And I did say out loud, this is three Academy Award winners on the screen. Like, I don't know whether that's the advertisement for the Oscars that you want, but that's not Denzel's fault. It's not Denzel's fault. I personally really liked what Jared Leto is doing in this movie, which is just high camp.

I mean, he is just he's in a totally different movie. He's very amusing. He's almost like actively trying to subvert the cliche of the serial killer in a movie. And so, you know, in a weird way, I'd recommend it. Rami Malek, I have no idea what Rami Malek's doing. He's like miscast and super weird in this movie.

And I like, I like the idea. Oh, go ahead, Amanda. Excuse me. I was just gonna, it's also the rare case where like he and Denzel seem to be on different pages. like i don't think denzel is making him better which is unusual denzel is like always lifts his his partner i like the idea of them all sitting around during like during a break while they're filming that scene and rami leans over and he's like hey

denzel i really think you should have won the best actor for malcolm x and he's like, hey, Denzel, I really think you should have won the best actor for Malcolm X. And he's like, oh, thanks. Congrats on winning it for Queen. Like on your. Yeah. If you want to. If you. That is literally a representation of the problem with the Oscars is that Rami wins for Bohemian Rhapsody.

And Denzel does not win for Malcolm X. Nevertheless, the little things, you know, Chris Ryan and I are huge fans of the garbage crime subgenre. I had hoped that this would be an entrant

in garbage crime. It's really not like that. It's a little bit more meditative and a little bit more serial killer core than it is crime movie. And maybe after more people have had a chance to see it,

we can talk about the final 30 minutes of this movie, which I just absolutely detested. But we'll save that for now. Can I ask one question about it that doesn't have to do with the actual plot of the movie or anything?

But over the course of Denzel's career, he has played, I think, right around exactly 10 law enforcement officers, 10 different types on a, and you can, you can arrange them on like a,

a scale of, of very moral to completely amoral. Where does his character fall? And is he closer to, to Alonzo and training day? Or is he somewhere in the, like with Anthony and the siege, Anthony Hubbard,

probably right in the middle with anthony in the siege anthony hubbard probably right in the middle right yeah yes and like we can't really say more honestly okay because that's some of the like psychological like the plot aspects of it all right but right right in the middle which is like maybe also a little bit the problem you know you want him to to lean one way or the other you want to have an understanding of who Denzel is in the movie. Right in the middle of that chart is Out of Time and Deja Vu. So that's about the frequency

we're operating at here. Yeah. I mean, those are two movies I really like that have a lot of energy and propulsion in their story. And I think that this movie is lacking that at times. There is a lot of just kind of

sitting around happening in this movie, which frankly just doesn't make for a good movie. Anyhow, let's just take a quick break. And then when we come back, we will share our top five Denzel Washington movies. what's in this mcdonald's bag the mcvalue meal for 579 plus tax you can get your choice of junior chicken mcdouble or chicken snack wrap plus small fries and a small fountain drink so pick up a mcvalue meal today at participating mcdonald's restaurants in canada prices exclude delivery okay we're back um this is this is a challenging, not just because there are so many Denzel movies, but because I think in some cases, idiosyncrasy could and should be rewarded. And in other cases

to overlook these totemic roles feel stupid. And Amanda and I kind of toggle on this every time we do an episode where we're like, well, we have to recognize the Academy award-winning performance, but also I personally just love this movie and I want to shout it out. How did you guys find making your list? Shade, was it easy for you to do this? It was incredibly difficult. It had five spots for 15 movies. And I just kept, every time I rewatched a thing, I was like, oh, now I have to take

Fallen off of here because I just watched John Q. And then I go, now I got to take He Got Game off of here because I just rewatched Remember the Titans or whatever. It's an impossible task. There's no way to get this right at all. There's no way. Amanda, what about for you? Easy or difficult? No, I found it incredibly hard. And I went through a lot of the, how much am I waiting the performance and the movie and my personal instincts and kind of the larger narrative. And I don't know that I totally nailed it. But I just do want to say, I have not seen Shay's list. I have seen Sean's list. I do respect creativity and list making. And I think Sean completely cheated. And when I opened the doc, I was like outraged. And it all of the work that I did to try to make choices and like reflect like

do a comprehensive thoughtful list Sean just like cut to the front of the line and I like I in in some ways I respect it because what else are you gonna do but I like really did spend a week like I've had more conversations about what the fifth spot on this list should be in my house than I've had on anything in a long time. I took it really seriously and I took the balancing really seriously and Sean did not. The exact same thing happened to me. I opened it. I saw

what he wrote in there. This is the exact quote that I said and the exact tone that I said it. This motherfucker. That's exactly it. That was exactly it. Thank you, Amanda. I'm glad we're aligned here. This is just... Getting attacked on this podcast is a recurring theme

that I reject entirely. I listen to Big Picture all the time. Sometimes you don't deserve it. You fucking deserve it this time. You straight up deserve it. Is that even an attack? I felt attacked. I was so upset. I was like, God damn it. I took this seriously.

Broke the rules. You don't even know how I'm going to present my idea. I do because I understand how outlines work in a format sense, Sean. Like, I know what the tabs

and the enters mean, but that doesn't matter. This is just, this is, wow, man. Everybody is just keyed up because they didn't get to add

their sixth favorite Denzel movie. I did. You know what? I did in the end because I made choices. But that's fine. Okay. I think you perhaps both are overstating what I'm deciding to do here. And I haven't made it totally clear what my intention was.

Nevertheless, let's start doing our list because it's some important movies to talk through. Shay, why don't we start with you? You have not shared your list with us so I'm excited to hear your five favorites what's number five alright I'm coming in hot here

oh boy with my number with my number five pick because neither one of y'all had it on your list and there's a whole reason I didn't put my list on there because then I was just like

I don't know I felt like there was going to be some other chicanery that was going to happen after Sean set that precedent what precedent my number my number five pick my five my fifth favorite denzel movie and this is what i did i'll tell you how i got the the methodology behind this is every time i watch a movie i like type it into my little spreadsheet so i just went through and counted up how many times i'd seen all of these Denzel movies and I just put

them in that in that exact order and I just I made that up right now and the fact that neither one of y'all like thought that was weird is incredible to me I don't I'm not I'm not prepared I'm not in a position to criticize anyone's spreadsheet activities. If you have a watching spreadsheet, cool. I also live and die by someone else's ridiculous spreadsheet habits. So whatever you want to do, Shay. All right. No, this is my fifth favorite Denzel Washington movie. I got to have Man on Fire.

Give me Man on Fire. I need one movie on my list, at least one movie, where he's just killing dudes. He's just being a cool guy killing dudes that's what i want i want to see him i want to see him cut off someone's finger and then use a the what is it the cigarette lighter to like cauterize it is that the word i'm looking for yes i want to see him put a bomb in someone's butt and blow it up i need it i need i need man on fire so i revisited this movie this week,

and I think I'm one of the precious few males, at least, at The Ringer, who is not in the Man on Fire cult. That's crazy. I love the Tony Scott Denzel movies. I love almost all of them. This is the one that I have never really been able to click into, and I don't know what it is.

Maybe it's just too Clint Eastwood slash Charles Bronson for me it just feels like too close to a lot of other kinds of movies but i don't it's i don't know man it's just it's just not it's not for me but i respect it i respect this is this your only tony scott denzel movie i i don't want to say but it is definitely the only denzel movie i have on my list with Mark Anthony in it as well. I fucking love Mark Anthony. So here we go. This has some of my favorite is Christopher Walken reading from the script or just saying whatever pops into his head moments in any movie. There's so many moments when they're sitting at a table together and Christopher Walken is looking at like a Mexican woman passing by him on screen.

And I'm like, is he riffing? Is this part of the story? It's great stuff. Who knows? Okay. Okay, Amanda, number five for you. This is also one for me. I had a similar rationale for this Bache.

Actually, I don't know. Maybe they're all for you on your list. But I rewatched basically all of the Tony Scott movies. I didn't rewatch Man on Fire, but I rewatched Unstoppable and Crimson Tide and Taking a Film 1, 2, 3 as previously discussed. And I like all of those. And I think that is an essential part of his career.

And I wanted to represent kind of the, you know, Denzel in action mode. And then I was like, no, I'm just putting the Pelican Brief on this list. Yeah. Because I love this movie. No one else does. But I think in the same way that

Shay just wants to watch Denzel kill some people, I just want to watch Denzel solve some problems, preferably in a newsroom, which is just one of my favorite movie settings. And I've just seen it more than other movies. And it's not the flashiest role. And I agree, it's not the greatest of the movies on this list, even though I just it's everyone's really underrating it. And it's on HBO Rex right now. And you should just like have a nice time watching the Pelican brief. Um, but Denzel is often behind a desk.

He's behind a desk more than I want him to be. And I'm usually really mad that he's behind a desk because I'm like, go let Denzel do things. But at least when he's behind a desk in the Pelican brief, it's because he's solving the problem with his mind. So I, I endorse the Pelican brief. I really enjoy when we get a little clip of Denzel Washington doing something athletic in a movie. Yeah. When he plays basketball and he got game. Or when he dances in The Preacher's Wife. He's great in there.

In the Pelican Brief, there's a great two-second clip of him jogging. And I was like, yeah, that's cool. I'm missing the boat. I would watch a Denzel Washington jogging movie without question. A fun game to play is just put Denzel in every Tom Hanks role and see if that movie still works. And you just made me think of that with Forrest Gump. Imagine Denzel as Forrest Gump jogging across America. Every time you put him in a Tom Hanks role, I feel like the movie is automatically 45 minutes shorter.

He would have got off the island and cast away so fast. So fast. So fast. But that's part of my problem with both Man on Fire and The Pelican Brief. Both of those movies, as I'm watching them, I'm like, why is this movie two hours and 20 minutes? Explain to me why this movie is so long. I don't know. You can't solve the assassinations of two Supreme Court justices in 60 minutes, John. Okay? It's a conspiracy. I think it's funny. If the Pelican Brief was made today, it would not be somebody as famous as Julia Roberts

cast in that part. And the movie would be more centered, I think, on Denzel Washington's character. Also, the conspiracy would be more than could be solved on Reddit in five minutes. But that's another. It's a flimsy conspiracy. I understand that it's like all the president's men and the firm light like i like i get it yeah but guess what really love both of those things if they want to make one of those movies every single year starring denzel washington i'd be thrilled i think um you know we're tapping into kind of like a nostalgia too with a lot of these movies and

we have relationships to some of these older movies my number four is definitely one of those where you can kind of debate whether or not it's an absolute masterpiece, but you just love to be around the movie. He makes a lot of movies where you're just like, if you catch it on cable, if you just fire it up on Netflix to fall asleep to, if you decide you want to record a 90-minute podcast about someone's career, every single engagement with these kinds of movies you have fun with. One that I engaged with last night, which is my number five, is called Devil in blue dress this is a carl franklin directed film based on walter mosley's novel about easy rollins a los angeles detective the reason that i picked this movie in addition to it just being very similar to what you guys are describing which

is just like a movie i like having on it's had the right energy is it is Denzel and Franklin and Mosley in conversation with everyone who came before them. So it's Mosley in conversation with writers like James Caine, the noir Dashiell Hammett style detective novelist. It's Franklin in conversation with the 1940s Hollywood filmmakers. And it's Denzel essentially redefining what a Humphrey Bogart character is. You know, the character who delivers all this steamy narration about where the dame is and who's really behind the crime.

Beautiful portrait of post-war Los Angeles. Beautiful portrait of a black community that we don't see in movies very often that is in that post-war. And Denzel is like very famously his character in this movie is a property owner a man who owns his own house and took what happened to him after the war took his money and tried to make a better life for himself and then gets ensnared in this crime conspiracy this political conspiracy and a lot of people i was

looking at reviews of this film especially reviews in the last five or 10 years, and they all say that this is the movie that LA Confidential thinks it is, which I thought was an interesting way to frame it. Really great movie, really great kind of traditional movie star performance from Denzel, where again, he does not have to speechify. He does not have to hold court necessarily to keep the story moving and to keep you deeply interested in where it's going. And I really like another version of a movie that i wish there was just more of i wish there were more period piece detective movies like those are some of the best movies ever made so this is denzel's contribution to that category you guys pro devil in blue dress yeah very yeah very pro we watched it this week very good very good movie um also peaked on cheetle

just absolutely on fire don cheetle as mouse one of some one of my favorites one of the coolest people who has ever lived ever so good uh shea what's your number four my number four okay so this was what i was doing when i was putting this list together um denzel washington has maybe like five or six different types of uh characters that he'll that he'll play like with man on fire that's like all right sean mentioned earlier like seeking justice for somebody else because denzel would never be in a position where he needs to seek it for himself he's he's doing it for other people so like man on fire the equalizer uh that sort of thing so like all right let me get

one of those movies in here for this one i needed i needed dad energy denzel that's what i that's what i wanted i wanted i want to feel like his kid for a little while i want coach energy denzel so i'm picking between remember the titans and john q and those sorts of those sorts of movies john q is incredible just clearly it's a script where like you get to the one part and you're like, Oh, he did this just for the one scene at the end when we're just like, everybody's going to be in the theater crying when he's doing the,

the, the talk with his son. Remember the Titans. I feel like remember the Titans is a little more full, a little more robust. I really just greatly enjoy the whole you're not having fun now, are you? thing that he does with

Turk from Scrubs. It's just great. So give me Remember the Titans. I need Coach slash Dad Energy Denzel on here somewhere. I knew you would bring this to the table, which is why I didn't feel that I had to do so. Great movie.

It's very similar. Kind of classical popcorn dad sports movie that he also is able to kind of transform into that intimidating but avuncular figure. Yeah, he turns this into high

art. Without Denzel Washington in this role, it becomes Facing the Giants. Did y'all watch Facing the Giants? You ever see that? No. It's like a football movie slash Christian movie or whatever. Like it's another, here's some like moral principles to follow. We're going to package them around a football coach type of thing.

But with Denzel Washington, you get one of the best movies that's ever been made and with that other guy you get a five minute clip that's fun to watch on youtube amanda what's your number four what is my number four clicked out of the window oh yeah my number four is flight um which i you know at the time Denzel was nominated for an Oscar for this film. And it was like definitely talked about. And I saw it and then had not watched it since, I don't think. And so I revisited it. And interesting movie, I would say.

And a fantastic Denzel performance. And one of those performances where he is subverting the Denzel of it all in a different way. It is a I think it's an amazing movie about or the Denzel aspect of it is a really profound movie about addiction. And you've never the way that he portrays that character and so much acting without words. You know, there's like a scene at the bar after he's had the first meeting with again, Don Cheadle and, um, has been kind of made aware of the drug test and the legal challenges that are going to come to him after his active airline bravery. And he's sitting at the bar deciding whether or not to order a drink and doesn't say a thing. And it's just Denzel's face and Denzel's presence. And it's, it's really subtle. It's not like one of his big,

big moments, but you know, it's so good. And then also the way in the end of the movie, he uses his charisma and the fact that that person is so likable, you know, there's that, that kind of queasy making scene after he relapses right

before the hearing. And he comes out to, I can't remember which Rolling Stone song in the aviators striding, striding to the hearing. And it's like, that's like movie star Denzel, but also in like the worst possible way. I think it's like fascinating that he wanted to do it and a pretty remarkable performance, even if the movie is like, eh. Completely agree. I think the movie is okay and he is unbelievable in it. And it's one of those films where

you can't imagine. I don't think anybody else could do it. And that is probably the best compliment you can make to a movie. Another movie that I'm like, this movie is two hours and 20 minutes long. Why's someone explain it to me it's for the same reason that you like chew your food slowly when it's delicious because it's denzel washington that's why flight is a really great great pick flight has one of the five best denzel washington cries moments of like his career when he's doing that that final thing

you're talking about that's the that's it's it's flight it's when he cries in the hurricane during the i'm not gonna put on guilty man's clothes scene um the john q speech when he meets elijah muhammad and malcolm x and the singleer in Glory which is a fucking oh god I can't even can't even get through it you just named a whole bunch of other movies that are 2 hours and 20 minutes long they all deserve they should have been 4

hours and 40 minutes incredible stuff my number 4 is Crimson Tide it requires my assent I do not give it and furthermore you continue upon this course and insist upon this launch without confirming this message first. I will be forced to act by the rules of precedence,

authority, and command. I order you to place the XO under arrest and discharge the Navy regulation. This is my Tony Scott pick. We did a rewatchables about this last year, and it is probably one of my favorite movies of the 1990s and it does scratch the itch of a lot of things that we've been talking about which is the way that two people at who are at their best can go toe-to-toe in real time on screen there are a couple of sequences

this is a submarine movie um essentially about a a commanding officer and his xo and the sort of showdown the battle over power that they have on a submarine in the midst of a potential nuclear crisis. The commanding officer is played by Gene Hackman. Denzel plays the XO. And there's an overlapping dialogue showdown that is just two guys yelling at each other on a boat. That's like the most exciting thing I've ever seen in a movie. Or I was like, what's going to happen? Are these guys both going to turn into dinosaurs? Like, are we all going to exist in a magical universe? Like I get so amped up watching these two performing and it's a, it's a torch passing movie. You know, it feels like in many ways, Hackman has anointed Denzel as worthy of essentially, you know,

defeating him. I mean, he really overcomes him both morally and as a leader uh in this movie and that's if you know anything about gene hackman and the way that he conducted himself on movie sets that says a lot because he was a tough customer and could be really hard on people and i love the idea of a kind of mutual respect shared between these two guys and also just tony scott obviously makes some of the most propulsive movies of all time I'm not necessarily a huge Pelham one two three person either Amanda but you know all of the other ones certainly Man on Fire and Unstoppable and the other films that they've made together Deja Vu are just like you just want to know what happens you just want to figure out where this movie is going which is one of Tony Scott's great skills so that that's Crimson Tide. I like that pick.

That's a very good example of the way that Denzel is able to weaponize the words that he's saying. Because that scene you're talking about, it's like him and Hackman are standing seven feet across from each other just fucking shooting Uzis at each other. It's one of the few times in his career where he was in a scene with somebody who was able to keep up with him, sort of stare him down. It happens in Fences

with Viola Davis. It happens in Training Day with Ethan Hawke and it happens here with Gene Hackman. Those are the only times that somebody's been able to be on the court with him. It's an underrated. There is a bit of a coach movie aspect to it as well. When he's recruiting all of the kind of

the the crewmen and the stuff about star trek and i think there's also some comics in there and it's just like peak charm and you it's what she said i'm just like i will do anything to make denzel you know happy if he just whispers in my ear this word of encouragement yeah it's like i'll like whatever you want so like i will do it i will not fire a nuclear submarine despite the orders from my whatever. Let me just say this, though, talking about Crimson Tide. I just, I need someone to explain to me how submarines work. I have watched A Hunt for Red October and Crimson Tide so many times. And it's just these, like, these giant ships are just like in the bottom of the ocean,

just trying to maneuver around each other. Like who came up with this idea? Sign me up for that tutorial because I need to know as well. I have no clue. I don't know how they work. I don't know. Perhaps we should launch a submarine pod of some kind, you know, just into the depths with subs.

The one thing in this movie too, you reminded me of the coaching up part of it, is it's one of the only denzel movies that features both the yelling denzel and the very like smooth kind of funny like is he making fun of me or is he excited about me denzel like those are two the two sides of him that that i love uh so that's crimson tide okay shay number, number three. Number three is one of the best heist movies that we've ever gotten. Just incredibly smart, incredibly fun. You have to have Denzel and Spike Lee on here somewhere.

Give me Inside Man. Let me have it. Shay, yes, it's also my number three. I'm right there with you. Boom. This is the objectively correct third place pick right there. So why Inside Man? What is it?

Obviously Spike and Denzel have this long creative partnership. This is the last movie they made together. So what is it about it, Shay? I just like the way that those two guys sort of refract energy off of each other they both seem to have similar philosophical stances on so many different things and when you have a you know when the director and the star of the movie can vibe like that it just works so great he got the the scene and he got game when him and shuttlesworth when denzel and jesus shuttlesworth are walking down the pier together and Denzel is explaining why they named him Jesus and it was after this basketball player and then white media got a hold of it and he became black Jesus. there and you need somebody who can who can deliver the lines the way that they were with the intent that they were supposed to be delivered with um it's just it's just magic and it's a fun

movie it's a smart movie it's one of those movies that feels uh like it can sort of reach across the aisle doesn't matter what type of denzel movie you would like to see give me give me good guy cop denzel movie who has to at some point find himself in water that's deeper than he realized and then by the end of the movie he's got to have everybody or all of the pieces like in place yeah i agree i mean this is my good cop movie it is also uh denzel solves a problem i just i love it and it it's also one of those movies where i think like the movie is as good as denzel is and the dense and they each improve each other as opposed to sometimes denzel is just being awesome and then the movie is kind of doing its paint by numbers big movie thing but like this is this is a hugely

enjoyable movie that i do also think like works as a whole and it's a bit of art but you know to to Shay's point about the kind of the chemistry between Spike Lee and Denzel Washington I think that is spot on and like as my husband said when we were watching it last night because we saved all my favorites for last he was just like Spike just thinks that Denzel is cool and lets him be cool. And you can tell that in the movie. And I think that's right. And it's a privilege to be a part of it for two hours. Yeah, I completely agree.

This is an awesome movie. It's the 15-year anniversary of this movie in two months. Can you believe that? We're getting really old, guys. It feels like this movie came out yesterday. Yeah. I remember exactly where i was and wow a very cool thing about denzel is when because he's done all of these different categories and

movies every time you do like all right what are the five best heist movies of all time there's a denzel movie in there what are the five best like evil cop movies of all time there's a denzel the five best sports movies there's a denzel movie in there like he just he could do everything man he's been very very smart in the way that he picks parts and part of it you think you get the impression that he's trying to challenge himself and take on a new role and part of it is like a very commercial impulse too where he's like this movie is going to work audiences are going to like this and then part of it is what is the story that needs to be told you know he's made a lot of movies that also are stories that need to be told he's been great at that one of those

movies i have not seen in a long time and i re-watched this week and i loved and it's philadelphia that's my number three and this is jonathan demi's story of a lawyer who is diagnosed with aids and is fired from his law firm by the um you know by the bigoted people who who run the law firm the partners at the firm tom hanks plays the lawyer and denzel plays the sort of ambulance chasing lawyer who has come to rep is going to represent the lawyer who's been fired because he's he's ill and he can't defend himself and um fascinating fascinating movie and feels certainly dated, so to speak, in that the way that some of the characters are talking is very much locked in 1993 when the film was made, but also more sensitive than I had remembered and more honest, I think, about the way that people

talked about some of these issues. And there are things that you'll hear Denzel's character in particular say in the movie that would be considered downright offensive and hurtful. But I think it's an honest representation of the way that some people saw the world at that time. And some still do, frankly. But this is an interesting movie that shows a Denzel character evolving in real time. And that's another thing that we imagine him as this very stormy and powerful person. But this is a very flawed guy, this lawyer. This is a guy who certainly has bigoted feelings himself, who doesn't totally understand Andrew Beckett, the Tom Hanks character, and his lifestyle. And Jonathan Demme, who directed this movie, is the humanist filmmaker of my lifetime and is such a sensitive and thoughtful portrayer of people who um are imperfect and tom hanks won

his first best actor academy award for this movie and and rightly so it's an amazing transformation performance by hanks but the denzel performance goes a little bit under the under the radar and in addition to you know just the way that he evolves as a man in the movie also great courtroom drama and amanda i was thinking when we did our courtroom dramas episode, this never even crossed my mind, but the last hour is just Denzel being incredibly captivating in a courtroom. Yeah, it's so funny. You know, I haven't seen this, I think, since it, maybe not since it came out, but certainly the 90s.

And I didn't revisit it. I think it is just kind of lodged in my head as such like a, I don't mean this in a negative way, but like the establishment, like serious 90s, a grown-up movie from when we were growing up. And so I should revisit it because I think I would see it very differently now.

Yeah, I think it's really worth it. You know, just in addition to that, quickly, I would also recommend his other movie with Demi, The Manchurian Candidate, which is another movie that I think is considered like a relic of a different time and is i think very overlooked because the original from the 60s is so lauded and historically important but that's a movie that holy shit saw the future i mean just saw the future in terms of the way that we perceive the government power media i was shocked by how much i liked manchurian Candidate. Denzel, very, very good in that movie.

Very unusual kind of performance from him where he plays a guy who's essentially like quite dazed throughout. You know, we usually think of him as so alert and so on it. And this is a guy who's struggling with like essentially mental illness and post-traumatic stress disorder.

So just want to throw a shout to that. Okay, number two. Shay, what do you got? Number two. Oh, I think if we were putting this in order of just the overall best Denzel performances, this is the number one pick for everybody. Because it was the... I don't even know how you describe the way that he played Malcolm X in Malcolm X.

He just does every single thing perfectly. And he was new enough in his career that we weren't like, we saw hints of it when he did Glory, and you're like, holy shit, who is it? Can you imagine being Morgan Freeman on the set of Glory and you're like, this is going to be my moment. I'm going to get my Oscar here. And then Denzel Washington shows up. You're like, this is going to be my moment. I'm going to get my Oscar here. And then Denzel Washington shows up.

And you're like, what the fuck? You can't compete with this guy. But you saw him do it in Glory. And you're like, oh, this guy's got it. And then he shows up in Malcolm X. And every tool, every weapon, every emotion, I kept trying to figure out a way to get like john q in here because i wanted to have like vulnerable denzel and then when i re-watched malcolm x i got to the

scene when he meets uh elijah muhammad and he is a hundred percent stripped of all of his armor he can't even look at him he won't even look at him and he's just crying. And like to be able to do that is just, I don't know. That's the top of the top level we have. I have to have him in here. That's the number one of like best ever performance by mouth by Denzel. But for my like five favorite Denzel movies, that's my number two.

Um, incredible paradox there by you to say that this is the top performance of all time, but it's your number two. I think for Amanda and I say that this is the top performance of all time but it's your number two i think for amanda and i it's both of our number ones um yes you know i i guess i kind of cheated because i wanted to put my number one as uh as the spike quadrilogy really because the four movies that he and spike made together i think are like amazing and they're part of like a a story that that they're telling together about what masculinity is in America, really, in a lot of ways. I think that certainly the black experience, but even just what it's like to be a man over the he's playing three men, really four men. You know, he's playing Malcolm Little and then he's playing this man who's been imprisoned.

And then he plays this cultural political revolutionary. And then he plays this evolved cultural political revolutionary. It's just, it's four stages of an extraordinary person's life. And similarly to the Philadelphia thing where you see somebody evolve over the course of a year, it's just amazing what he's able to do in this movie representing like 20 years of a man's life.

I watched it again last night. I'm just knocked out by this movie every time I see it. I feel the same way. I had the same experience. I think it's a masterpiece. I think Denzel in it is a masterpiece. It's another thing where, you know know the film and the performance are really working together and I I was mad that Sean tried to do the I thought he was just gonna do all four

Spike Lee movies and I was mad because I also had a hard time picking between the the Spike Lee movies I you know I think that that is has certainly been the most uh the fullest I guess collaboration of Denzel's career but i mean like you guys said he has to he has to do everything it's over the span not just of someone's life but you know someone's personal evolution and he has to play all the different you know he has to play vulnerability as as she said i you know one moment that struck me on the rewatch was when Malcolm X proposes to Betty. Will you marry me? Yes. You heard what I said, right? Did you hear my answer? Yes, I think so. For the Malcolm? Are you eating? Yeah, I've been eating. Good. I love you, Betty.

And there, it's on the phone and he's just there in the in the pay phone and like kind of plays it cool and hangs up the phone and then there's like that exhale

and that little chuckle yes which is I mean just only Denzel would do that and you feel

all of that emotion but you also feel like the the control and the walls and him trying to understand where he is and all of it i mean it's it's like really astonishing i at some point you know words it's great a tremendous film

i know i'm so glad you brought that up because that jumped out to me too and his you know shay you were talking about the handful of people who can really go toe-to-toe with him and bring out the best in each other and i do think think that Angela Bassett in this movie is like that too. They don't have a ton of scenes together, but they have that very famous sequence where she is trying to make him aware of the fact that the Nation of Islam maybe doesn't have his best interest at heart and that their family might not be taken care of long-term. That scene is amazing and it's so claustrophobic and they're sort of trapped in the corner of this room together. And he's struggling to make eye contact with her because he knows in his heart

that she's right. And she's trying to make him understand and see and push his pride down. And man, that is just a great example of movie acting. And when two people are equals and on the same page and Malcolm X is just a breathtaking movie. Denzel has a few idiosyncrasies that he does when he's acting, like we're talking about when he gets off the phone and whatever. In this movie, he does all of them in the best possible way. He has the mood flicker. Sean, you were alluding to that in Philadelphia when the guy approaches the in the best possible way he has the the mood flicker sean you were alluding to that in philadelphia when the guy approaches him in the drugstore and he's like hey hey you

know i saw you on tv great job on the case and he's very warm and friendly and then the guy hits on him and he just that turns on him yes just that quick like he becomes dangerous just that fast you have when he does that that big smile that amanda was talking about you have when he does this sort of cold stare when he's just gonna look through you for a second the the intense interrogation like in fences and that's one of my favorite ones when he's doing the um i don't have to like you you're my son i love you like that thing with that's just beautiful and then the sort of silent calculation thing that he does. And in Malcolm X, he hits all of them.

Every single thing that he can do, he does it at the highest possible level. It's also like relatively pretty early in his movie career, which is so astonishing. Because at some point, all of those, not the tropes or the tics, but kind of like the Denzel mannerisms that Shay was talking about that we've become familiar with. Like that's because we've been watching Denzel for 30 years or something, but it's like all right there, fully formed. And, you know, obviously he had been acting

for 20 years at that point, because as Sean said, he didn't become successful until later in his career. But just to watch a movie star just have it all that really i mean legendary so that's malcolm x is your number two shay it's my number one it's amanda's number one so amanda do you want to do your number two now well i if my number two isn't shay's number one i am just like what is shay's number one? So I assume that's

true for my number two as well, since we share a number two. Shay, what is it? Heart condition. Are we talking about heart condition? No, that's not it. Quinn the Eskimo? It's training day. It has to be training day. It's just the most fun Denzel

performance to watch. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. The good guys, they die first, right? Those school kids and moms, family men, they don't want to catch the straight bullets in the noodle. To protect the sheep, you got to catch the wolf. You want to see him put on an acting show. You watch Malcolm X or you watch something like that. But if you just want

to have a good time and like it's this is the one movie where it's like fine if he dies at the end because he's been the bad guy the whole time and it justice has to be served one thing we know about denzel washington is the person who deserves justice gets the justice and it's it's okay to watch that part at the end like that that's how we close that circle there you of course have the great history that comes along with it of him finally winning his best actor oscar it's presented to him by julia at the at the show at the oscars he gives that great two birds and the one stone or two in the same night thing as like a final jab because Hallie won it.

Hallie won the best actress award that same night as well. Like it's just all of the like cool things about Denzel Washington on display at the same time. And I fucking love it. This is like one of the few movies I went to the movie theater multiple times and watched it with multiple people because I wanted to see how they reacted during that scene at the end when Indel abandons Jake at the kitchen table. And you're just like, fuck, what the fuck?

I went back and forth with this at number one and Malcolm X at number two. And ultimately, you know, when I rewatched Malcolm X, it was just like so exhilarating. And that is like a lot of the reason that I love movies. But the reason I love movie stars is because of like performances like training day. And there's something perverse about me not putting at number one, because like, I think the reason I ultimately didn't is because it's like, this is like too much what the audience wants. He's like, finally, just, you know, we always like like a charismatic villain and he is just like really serving it. And it's so, um, so appealing even as he's being

the bad person. And it's so obvious, but like, I should just have, it's okay when people do things that we like, I don't know why I'm like, this has to be number two, because it's amazing. It's, and, and it's not what Denzel did before, but also it is. So it's,

you know, it's exciting. I love this movie or I love this performance. One of the rare movies where it seems like he knows best and he has all the answers. And in fact, he does not. And he has the rug pulled out from him.

You know, I think the, really the only difference here between malcolm x and training day in terms of just the sheer excitement that he provides as a performer is just like malcolm x is a more complete film in my in my opinion like it's obviously unquestionably it's it's it's got a much bigger uh ambition and a much bigger scope in terms of the way that it's made. And it's just, frankly, more meaningful. But Training Day is just elite Hollywood entertainment. There's just very few movies in the last 20 years that are as fun to just catch on TV as Training Day. And it's hard to look away from. And part of it is, I think, Ethan Hawke, you can see, is having a Flip Murray kind of a performance where he's like, okay, like I'm having a showdown here with, you know, Gary Payton and I need to make sure that my shit

is correct right now. You know, I need to really go for it. And he's talked about that. I mean, if you listen to interviews with Ethan Hawk, he basically prepared for this movie like an athlete because he knew he was getting in the ring with Ali. You know, he knew he was getting on the court with Jordan. And so they do really bring out the best in each other. And it makes this movie incredibly exciting. And it's also really funny. That's the one other thing that we haven't talked about is Denzel's hilarious in this movie.

And he energizes the script, which is a good script. It's like a good crime movie script that he just takes to the next level because he is relishing in being in the big bad wolf you know like he's not really had a chance to do this before and you can see how much fun he's having have you ever had a thing happen um either of you when when y'all were in school and there was like somebody who was clearly a bully but you kind of wanted them to be your friend a little bit. That's how I feel about Denzel in this movie. He's just, like you're saying, he's so funny.

But also, this is, I think, the coolest version of Denzel that we've ever gotten. He just turns the volume up on everything. Every line that he says in this is incredible. Everything that he does, every look that he gives, starting immediately. When he gets Jake on the phone phone immediately before we even see him you hear the way he's talking to him the way he just hangs up on him i mean that scene is it's incredible and then a thing that i don't this is maybe a totally by accident but when i was re-watching the denzel movies um there's a line that he has when uh when he is going to uh sleep with a woman for the first time.

Or she thinks that that's what he wants to do. And she's like, you know, men think that dick is the cure for everything or whatever. And he's like, no, no, I've been thinking like that. And she says, you got a dick. And he's like, yeah. Then he says, you got balls. And he says, both of them. And in any other person's hands, that line is ridiculous.

But when Denzel says it, it's just the coolest thing in the world. So I'm like rewatching the movie. I write this down. Okay, everything that Denzel says is like cooler than anybody else can say it. And then when I was rewatching Training Day, almost a version of that scene happens, and then he says it to Jake this time. You got a dick, don't you? you know it lines up in the middle but whatever that whole thing and

i was like i wonder if this is like a secret little hat tip to spike in this movie or i don't know i don't know but like this sort of stuff is like you watch denzel and you just want everything to be connected at all times he's just so much fun denzel's amazing are there any um i don't know honorable mentions you guys want to want to hit on we've been i think we've done a good job of kind of dotting this conversation with you know this movie isn't in my top five but but anything else that we missed we didn't say mo better blues when talking about the spike league collaborations and i i love that one and also one of the few times that you get to see Denzel even like considering a romantic entanglement of any kind. It's not really what he does.

A little bit by choice, I told him, I think a little bit because of Hollywood's patterns. Aversions. Yes, aversions as the case may be. But let's be real real i would love to see denzel washington in some romantic situations i always enjoy it just like personally so and you know that and that's a more vulnerable meditative side of him as well which i think is great i also wanted to mention we did crimson tide we did did Unstoppable yeah Much Ado About Nothing you guys seen this? I have seen it yes

it's not on my list because it's a silly side of Denzel and it's one of those things where it's like I hope he had fun because I know that he likes doing Shakespeare and doing stage work and I actually think that movie is pretty funny it's a funny revisit

yeah your boo Kenneth Branagh please don't call him my boo it's like it's a funny revisit yeah your boo kenneth brana yeah going for it please please don't call him my boo it's team abbatopsin forever like don't don't even come to me with that andre satour of tenant fame kenneth brana sure why not but i it's i like that he's in it i don't know he just he tries stuff we didn't we didn't say the words american gangster i was just gonna bring that up, Shay. Yeah. I think that's a very good example of one of those times where you see the trailer for a movie or you hear about the cast of a movie and the plot. This is going to be the new Scarface.

And then you go and you watch it and you're like, didn't quite get there, but still some fast moments in it that I enjoyed. Let me tell a quick story about that please do so this was um one of the most anticipated movies of my entire lifetime and here's why uh obviously i'm a huge fan of denzel if you've been listening to us talk about him on this show i'm a huge fan of ridley scott i'm a huge fan of crime movies i'm a huge fan of new york movies this is all of those movies i'm also a huge fan of jay-. This is all of those movies. I'm also a huge fan of Jay-Z. Jay-Z recorded the soundtrack to this movie. Before the film and the soundtrack were released, I was invited to a listening session

for this soundtrack by Jay-Z. And I thought, you know, I've been to a lot of listening sessions when I was working as a music journalist over the years. And I have certainly stood in giant studios drinking bad cocktails surrounded by 150 people this listening session was unlike anyone i'd ever been to before because it was me three other people and jay-z and jay jay maybe maybe four or five other people maybe i'm understating it but it was was a very, very intimate collection of people.

And we sat in a room, we sat in a studio, and Jay played every song and he talked through every song and how it related to the movie, which we had not seen yet, and how it related to him at this stage of his life

and why he felt connected to Frank Lucas as a character. And man, it was fucking cool. I had a number of one-on-one interactions with Jay where he made fun of me a lot. Obviously, I was an extremely corny white boy in the room, but so engaged and so interested in what he was up to and what he was doing. And so after that experience, which I'll cherish forever because

I just think Jay is the absolute, just the best. I was kind of bummed when I saw the movie. I was like, why is this movie not as good as that you know two and a half hours i spent with jay-z nevertheless denzel is really great in that movie one of uh one of my like sideways favorite denzel things that happened this is gonna go back to when we were talking about safe house i probably should have said this then but i remember laramie and i were at the movies before safe house had come out. This was, you know, before the trailers were up on the internet before you saw them in a theater. So like we're sitting in the theater,

the movie's about to start. I don't even remember what movie we're going to see, but they're playing the different trailers for the movies and the trailer for safe house starts. And it starts out and it's mostly Ryan Reynolds just sort of doing whatever. And they, they hold on to the reveal of who the guy is they bring the guy in, he's got the

sack over his head and the music is building, building, building and then they pull it off and it's Denzel and his hands are cuffed and he like waves and when that part happened, both Laramie and me just fucking lost our mind, like you're just like so excited to like surprise it's a Denzel movie When that part happened, both Laramie and me just fucking lost our mind.

You're just so excited to surprise it's a Denzel movie or whatever. I remember that more than I remember watching the actual movie itself. But I think that that speaks to just the level of excitement that Denzel can bring to any project. And he's been doing it at this point for a decade, longer than anybody else I could think of. And I'm really excited to watch The Little Things even though you guys did not like it.

I think that says it all, right? It's that he, more than anybody else, he makes movies and creates moments that even if you don't say them out loud inside, you're like, yes!

Yes! Yes! This! This. Whatever this is, this. Shay, Amanda, thank you guys so much for celebrating Denzel with me. this whatever this is this Shay Amanda thank you guys so much for celebrating Denzel

with me please stay tuned to the big picture because next week we're getting we're getting into the awards race we've been kind of

sidelining this a bit recently Amanda and we got Golden Globe nominations coming and frankly like Shay if you had to guess right now what movie is winning

best picture at the 2021 Oscars I have no clue. Kong? Godzilla vs. Kong? Yes, that was it. Yeah, that's the front runner. You nailed it. It's Godzilla. you