The Big Picture - Top Five Threequels and ‘The Conjuring: The Devil Made Me Do It’

Episode Date: June 4, 2021

‘The Conjuring: The Devil Made Me Do It,’ the third ‘Conjuring’ movie and the eighth installment in the franchise hits HBO Max and movie theaters this weekend. We’re diving into the film and our favorite "no. 3" entries in movie history with Chris Ryan. Plus, we discuss the exciting lineup for this year's Cannes Film Festival. Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guest: Chris Ryan Producers: Bobby Wagner and Steve Ahlman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Emmy award-winning producer, actor, and comedian Larry Wilmore is back on the air, hosting a podcast where he weighs in on the issues of the week and interviews guests in the world of politics, entertainment, culture, sports, and beyond. Check out Larry Wilmore Black on the Air on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Sean Fennessy. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about the demons that have possessed Amanda. We're talking about The Conjuring, The Devil Made Me Do It. It's the third Conjuring movie, the eighth installment in this franchise, which hits HBO Max and theaters this weekend.

Diving into the film and our favorite number three entries in movie history, we're doing it with CR. Chris Ryan, how are you? I'm good. Am I like the trilogy? I make the big picture trilogy, right? You are. You are the final piece of the triangle of sadness.

That's right. You are the isosceles in our heart. Guys, before we get into The Conjuring 3, let's talk about some movie news. Pretty momentous day in terms of announcements. Film festivals are back and the Cannes Film Festival is going to be back. It was postponed

in 2020 and they announced July 6th through July 17th. The festival will be returning with an absolutely stacked lineup. We knew about a couple of the movies that were going to be there. There's a new film from Wes Anderson of course and Leos Kariks and Paul Verhoeven and

also a lot of other movies. Any initial reactions from seeing some of these announcements, Amanda? I'm still waiting for you to surprise me with my trip to Cannes. You know, like it's not too late. We've got a month. They still have some of the travel restrictions and who can get to the festival and how it's going to be held is still not clear because the situation in France is not totally clear. And also because French people love to make rules and then change them and then change them again. And you want to celebrate that as well. But no, it's really exciting. Obviously, you know, the Wes Anderson film that we're all three so looking forward to

will be there. Annette, the Leos Carax film will also be there. And just a lot of other great films. Do you want to name some of them that you've written in this outline? Well, there's just a truckload, right? Because this is two years in the making. CR, you've been to Cannes 30 consecutive years now. So you must be really excited. I have a villa that I just sort of like dip in and dip out.

I'm curious though, would, if Sean, if there was, if, if Johnny can wrote you and was like one person from the big picture can come. Well, I think his name is Jacques can. And you took the invite. Would that be the,

the, the, the Holy Roman church splitting here with like that split you and Amanda apart. If you jumped on a, a can invite, this is a false premise because one, there's no such person as johnny can

two there's no universe in which there's only one ticket for us um if you were gonna go should amanda should we should we go to can i think we would be great at can like i really honestly i think i would thrive i typically don't like crowds or you know being around people or regimented schedule i'm just or like sounds or, you know, being around people or regimented schedule. Sounds great. But you love film festivals. But you know what I do like? Is the freaking Mediterranean.

And the sun is shining and there's a festive atmosphere. Like, it would be a new me. It would be vacation Amanda, but also international cinema Amanda. The great Amanda is colliding so I'm not going to can and frankly neither are you Amanda I'm sorry to break your heart here but neither of us really good podcasting it would be

there are some people who are going a lot of people in fact there's a lot of films a lot of filmmakers among them Andrea Arnold Hong Sung Soo Kogo Nata who we talked about a couple of weeks ago on the show the great Asghar Farhadi Sean Baker

has his first film since the Florida Project which is exciting Red Rocket is going to be there the movie I'm most looking forward to is a movie called Titane

or Titane by Julia Durkinau she made a really great horror movie called Raw a few years back a Pitcher Pong Verislythical he's got a movie there

Joachim Trier Chris who I know you're a fan of huge Mia Hansen Love Jacques Odiard like literally heavyweights of

world cinema have films at this festival which is very exciting there are also a few American flicks as you guys look at the lineup here

like both in competition and out of competition is there anything that you're really most excited to see Chris what about you well I mean just because I've been watching The Bureau for so long

now, like for the last couple of months, I'm kind of curious about Hold Me Tight, which is the Matthew Almaric movie. I haven't watched any of the films he's directed. I think he's directed a couple at this point, but that would be kind of fascinating. I'm also wondering whether or not when French Dispatch

plays at Cannes, do they just call it Dispatch? That's good. That's really good, Chris. Thanks. Do you know who the star of Hold Me Tight is? No.

It's Vicky Krapes of Phantom Thread fame. So it's a very exciting film. She's glowing up in 21. I love it. Big looks. She's also going to be the star of the forthcoming M. Night Shyamalan film, Old,

which is not appearing at Cannes. I am really psyched for that. What is it about that movie that speaks to you? Why? Because you're wondering whether it's because of my rapidly coming age or is it just... I haven't made a joke. Every two or three movies,

Night just dunks one in there. Yeah, I agree. Tomahawks one in. And it's like, this is a good idea. I love a weird beach movie. A, like the beach is a great one, right?

Yeah, sure. The ruins. I love those movies. So like the idea that the whole concept really appeals to me. I think he executed it well. Plus international cast.

Just Vicky's just crushing it. I love it. Amanda, top five beach movies this summer what do you think oh my god how have we not done it yet we did summer movies last year would be happy to do beach movies i nothing bad will happen on the beach itself that's a holy place for me if we get bored this summer i think we could just do bodies of water we could just run through them that's your spinoff pod yeah vessels in peril which is like a separate you know right that's your spinoff pod. Yeah. Vessels in Peril, which is like a separate, you know, right. That's actually like my favorite blockbuster genre.

Just things going wrong with a high speed vessel. There aren't that many blockbusters at Cannes, but that is what Cannes is about. What a segue by me. The thing I want to talk about that we haven't, and I don't know if I'm endorsing this and I don't know if I'm excited about this, but I'm just going to read the title. JFK revisited through the Glass, directed by Oliver Stone. I just, everyone just kind of put their fingers over their mouths together at the same time. Just like, hmm.

I don't know what to say. That'll be something. The title of this movie reminds me of Sean. Do you remember like in the early two thousands when all R and B or rap albums were the biography of the movie of the summer, you know, it was like Dave Hollister would be like my album colon, the biography colon a movie. Yes. Uh, I do remember that. I will say I have seen the first, uh, two hours of this film and I'm not ready to comment on it. Hold on the first two hours. I mean, I do remember that. I will say I have seen the first two hours of this film and I'm not ready to comment on it. Hold on, the first two hours.

I mean, I guess it is JFK. How long is it? Do we know? I don't know the final runtime. I know it was running quite a few. Could be as big as six. So, you know, Oliver Stone has a lot to say about JFK. If you haven't seen the film JFK, I would recommend it.

I don't know. We'll see about Through the Looking Glass. When I saw the film, it did not have the subtitle Through the Looking Glass, which shout out to Oliver Stone for being self-aware. I appreciate it. Did you find yourself sitting in the crowd just being like, man, I'm Through the Looking Glass? They should have called it that. I didn't, but I'm glad they arrived there. Do they say Through the Looking Glass at any point in the documentary? That's my favorite part. Everyone just starts applauding when they say the name of the title.

Yeah, I don't think there was a Leonardo DiCaprio in Once Upon a Time pointing at the screen moment there, unfortunately. I guess a couple of other notable things about Cannes. No Netflix, again. And so the kind of cold war between Netflix and Cannes seems to be continuing in some form or fashion. I guess last year, Defy Bloods was supposed to show out of competition. Obviously, the festival didn't happen.

So there still has not been a Netflix movie, I think, in four years now, which is very notable because there are a handful of titles that I think people thought were going to play there that were Netflix titles, particularly Jane Campion's The Power of the Dog, which is a star-studded movie. Jane Campion, the only woman to have ever won the Palme d'Or at Cannes, will not be present this year. A couple of other films that are not going to be present that I guess will be at Venice, probably Park Chan-wook's new movie, Decision to Leave, which I am extremely excited about. Paul Schrader's The Card Counter, which is the only film that matters in 2021. Pablo Lorraine's Princess Diana film, which I imagine you're really excited about, Amanda Spencer. Excited or intrigued. I mean, obviously I'll spend a huge amount of time thinking and talking about this movie, but it's,

I don't know, quite a year for that family. Chris, is Kristen Stewart a good Princess Diana? It's, I really, I really like Kristen Stewart a good Princess Diana? I really like Kristen Stewart. So I'm just going to kind of say that. I don't know that this is the role that I would have chosen for her, honestly. I'm a little bit with Chris on that. Interesting. You know what's cool?

I was just looking at this while we were chatting. You could do a lot worse than to do a movie marathon of the last 20 Palme d'Or winners palm door winners oh yeah you want to go through the list like well i'm just looking back and i'm like even the movies that i forgot about like elephant i'm like that's a pretty cool movie but if you go back to like you know secrets and lies pulp fiction in 94 if you just took that and go pulp fiction underground secrets and lies i'm just going to run through the ones i think dancer incer in the Dark, Elephant, Fahrenheit, 9-11, Wind that Shakes the Barley, Four Months, Three Weeks, Two Days, White Ribbon, Tree of Life, Flu is the Warmest Color, D-Pan, The Square, Shoplifters, and Parasite.

I mean, just a great, great run there. I mean, it's been a great run for a long time for the Palme d'Or. This is Apocalypse Now won the Palme d'Or. All That Jazz won the Palme d'Or. Paris, Texas. This is Apocalypse Now won the Palme d'Or. All That Jazz won the Palme d'Or. Paris, Texas, you know, like this is Sex, Lies, and Videotape. They've done a good job at the Cannes Film Festival over the last handful of decades. French people, they like movies. They love films.

We love films too. Hopefully this will be a good festival. Unfortunately, I don't think either one of us is going to be there. Barring some beautiful beneficiary come to save Amanda's summer. So if you are out there, if you're an extraordinarily wealthy person and you just want Amanda to have a good time while also complaining about being at a film festival, please send her cash and or a plane ticket.

I won't complain to you anyway, to the private benefactor, just to Sean and Chris. Let's transition away from the Ken film. Actually, you know what? I forgot about a movie there's one important film that is premiering it's um

I think actually this is the one film I would be willing to turn the big picture over to CR4 independently for a solo pod Chris

there's a film premiering in competition at Ken called Flag Day now when I first was made aware of this movie

a few months ago I believe I DM'd you late at night and I said, Sir, do you know about this? This is CRB. This is what this movie is about. It stars and is directed by Sean Penn. It also stars

Josh Brolin and Miles Teller in the story of a criminal father who runs con jobs and heists to support his daughter. I believe his daughter is played by Sean Penn's real life daughter, Dylan Penn. Chris, how do you feel about this movie? Dylan Penn is the subject

of one of the great all-time paparazzi photos, which is Robin Wright and Sean Penn and Dylan Penn and Dylan Penn's then boyfriend. I don't know who that man was. And like everybody is crying on a street in Brooklyn and everyone is smoking too. It's just Smoking and crying.

It's fucking stunning. Like, it's just like that should have won Palme d'Or. There are some things that feel like

they were scraped from my own bone marrow and it's almost weird to talk about them. This is one of them. I will be viewing this at a Del Taco drive-thru somewhere,

just like really communing with the true Josh Brolin spirit before Thanos. And yeah, I mean, I definitely... How many different halls of fame could we do off of Flag Day? You know, we could do a Brolin Hall of Fame. We could do a Penn Hall of Fame. We could do a Teller Hall of Fame. The Teller Hall of Fame episode would be the most amazing big picture

episode of all time. I mean, he's on a run right now. Have you guys watched the footage from Monkey Pot Kitchen in Maui? No. What's going on? Do you know that he got punched in the face? I do. Right. And it was like allegedly though he and his fiance have

since denied it over an unpaid wedding bill. And then but you can watch him after the punch itself calling people losers. He's OK. So we can, you know, not be that mean about it. no disrespect and I'm not trying to do anything to their business. I walked into Monkey Pod Kitchen once when I was in Maui a long time ago and said, this place is not for me. Right. I have had lunch at the bar there. And I just would say it's not a place where you expect someone to get punched in the bathroom over a wedding bill or not. And I also want to put it in the context of Miles Teller and Aaron Rodgers Hawaii vacation which would absolutely be in the hall of fame have you seen the videos of them taking over a live music experience at the restaurant and singing wagon wheel and shallow from a star is born I'm not making this up Miles Teller's on a run and he's gonna go straight from this to the red carpet

it can with it was a little stop in between for Top Gun 2 Maverick. Yeah, it's unreal. Fun fact, Monkey Pod Kitchen was the original title of the big picture. We changed that last minute thanks to some smart recommendations.

Speaking of communing with spirits, why don't we talk about The Conjuring the Devil Made Me Do It? I would like to make this as much an Amanda-centric conversation as I possibly can. 100%. That's the only reason I did this pod.

Chris and I have talked I thought you were asking me because you were like Amanda can't do Conjuring Obvi. You come through and do this. And when I found out that Amanda was doing it, I was like, I need to bear witness. I watched Conjuring 1 and 3 yesterday. I'm still here. I'm doing great. I watched Conjuring 1 and 3 yesterday.

I'm still here. I'm doing great. I'm very proud of you. I appreciate both of you appearing on this episode. So, you know, this movie is the third installment in a really, really successful franchise. There are a number of spinoffs now in the Conjuring movies. There is a case, Chris and I talked about it a bit on the rewatchables last year,

that this is the most consistent and consistently rewarding franchise in movies right now. Most of the Conjuring Universe movies I think have been pretty good. Maybe not great. I think they were starting to tail off a little bit. I think you could certainly make the case that they've tailed off a little bit

on this film. So this is really the Ed and Lorraine Warren franchise. This is Vera Farmiga and Patrick Wilson play a pair of, how would you describe them? Paranormal investigators? Is that a reasonable title for the work that they do? I was going to say demon detectives.

And there's like a real mind hunter demon detective aspect to this one, more so than the first two, where they have to just more deal with the demon right in front of them. It's been a number of years since we've gotten an original recipe conjuring movie. There've been a lot of Annabelle movies. There was the Curse of La Llorona

a couple of years ago. There was the Nun a couple of years ago. But Vera and Patrick are back as Ed and Lorraine. And the series has now taken on like a classic, like this is the law and order of scary movies

where we just get a case now. Here's this case, yeah, right. Here's a case. We're going to dive into the case. The movie is about the case. There's going to be some scares. There's going to be some communing with the spirits by way of Lorraine Warren's big emotions.

And we'll talk about Vera Farmiga, I'm sure, here. In general, Amanda, having dived into the Conjuring universe, what do you make of these movies? I love Vera Farmiga and Patrick Wilson as actors, as people individually have always wanted more for Patrick Wilson, though I guess this is enough. I guess he's thriving here in the Conjuring universe and he seems to be happy. So who am I? And I like Ed and Lorraine. I have a lot of questions about their marriage, about their faith, about the based on true story aspects of this.

And you know me, I would always rather like an intense, emotional, psychological drama with maybe a scare or two, as opposed to just like all of the jump scares, weird demon stuff with a sprinkling of, you know, marital intrigue or not really intrigue they seem to have a great marriage good for them patrick wilson just wants to protect her from the demons don't we all you know isn't that what a modern marriage is but like i liked it i feel the way i feel about all horror movies which is i like the stuff between the scary stuff so once again not a target audience did you feel like it was easier or harder to watch it at home versus in the theater? Way easier. I spent a lot of time reading about

exorcism on Wikipedia during like the really scary parts. And I would like look up, you know, and kind of see someone's body contort in really weird ways. That was really cool. You know what I really liked? And it was in the first 10 minutes. so I don't feel like it's a spoiler is when the the child who is possessed by a demon just absolutely decks Patrick Wilson yeah that's really fun I like one action sequence I really like is when an unexpected being just absolutely punches someone in the face it's just pure and simple and I laugh laugh every time so I could watch them but I there was also some sort of outlet for me at home so I didn't have to just sit there with like a lot of screaming gory stuff which does upset me I mean we all know that I get really startled really easily um and then I get really angry as Chris knows I'm like why did you startle me so I was less angry I guess watching this right that's good because I'm not just like. I'm like, why did you startle me? So I was less angry, I guess, watching this, right?

That's good. Because I'm not just like, ah! I'm like, oh, okay, they're going to do a jump thing now. I need to read about the history of exorcism in the Catholic church. Here's the thing. I wonder whether or not somewhere, you know, subliminally, you are comforted by the moral rectitude of the protagonists.

Because it's not always the case in horror movies that the two heroes are basically like God-fearing, sweet, loving people. Most horror movies are about punishing morally depraved people, you know? Yeah. That's like the logic of a lot of slasher movies is whoever is like having sex dies first.

And then we get to the final person who's pure, you know? I guess so. Here are my two main takeaways from this. Number one, I just think ghosts and demons are really annoying. Just like as a concept, it's just like move on. It's just like a person here taking up my space and just like startling you all the time. Wait, are you saying taking up my space?

You're saying move on to ghosts and demons to the other realm literally like literally get a new life like go away let go like why are you doing this amanda do you think it would be would you i have a question for you would you like swallow a demon for me if you saw me and i was possessed yeah would you be like take me take me um i don't know i don't know chris like i'd like to say that i would but i think i would honestly just be like this isn't real i don't believe you know like go away demon like just get it as i was crab walking around with my head spinning around, you would just be like, this isn't real. Go away, demon. I don't know. I don't think my first instinct, I haven't seen enough of these movies that my first instinct would be like, well,

what we have to do here is do a demon body switch, right? So this is like, I don't know if this is a spoiler, but in the opening scene, basically, of Conjuring 3, there's a little boy who's possessed, very graphically possessed. It's one of the better possessions, I think, in the scene. And his sister's boyfriend sacrifices himself by saying,

like, demon, leave this boy and jump into me. Right. And I just think that's, like, a huge leap to make on a boyfriend level. Like, I just think it's, like, a lot to do.

You know? I mean mean I know it's 81 maybe like it's just kind of like there's no tinder yet but like taking a demon on is a big ask if you're not a blood relative CR can I tell you something mm-hmm

I would do it for you bro I would absorb your demon possession and bring it into my home what would we do though if we found out that the demon was why I was good at potting? Interesting.

Then I'll definitely take you home. And you took the demon and then I was just like, yeah, you know, so the conjuring's pretty cool. Back to you, Sean. I'm honestly still getting over Amanda saying that she would say find a new slant to a demon yeah seriously no but let me let me let me keep going because here's my next level on this

and it also has a little bit to do with Adam Lorraine's Catholicism which I know is based in reality but I let me start with find a new slant like are we sure that we I know that their strategy is working on a case by case basis. And the exorcism is in fact, just like getting rid of the demon in question, but you know, then the demon, then Satan is just somewhere else. Right. And he's just kind of like moving on and all like, and they have to go through so much. They have to relive all of the trauma in order to get rid of the demon and kind of kill the demon. And I am wondering whether a more psychological like, you know, CBT approach of being like, demon, why are you so mad?

Like kind of let's like work through this and trying to help the demon move on might be a more effective and less like emotionally costly way for Lorraine to engage with these demons. I'm just throwing it out. I think if you can very quickly develop demon CBD, you can find your way to can. I think that's one way to fund your trip to can. I'm just like, they're just always fighting another demon. It's like whack-a-mole. You know, at some point we're not addressing the root cause here. The world is full of evil. What do you want? Ed and Lorraine are here to examine that evil. I like sort of, that's my other thing. Like ultimately, are we sure that Catholicism is serving them? Because it's giving them a tool set in order to defeat the evil, but it's also inviting the evil into their life all the time because the evil only exists in direct relationship to

you know religion and their belief so maybe you just back away from it all and live a peaceful life without demons let's talk about your farmiga for a minute speaking of demons why are you not engaging with me because i you want to try to explore like the nature of good and evil and whether or not demons you ask me to watch a horror movie like what that's not why we watch horror movies is not to cope with whether or not you know god and and beelzebub there's so much catholicism in this there's just like evil priests and and crosses all over the place i did some reading on the catholic internet about how they feel about these movies. What do you mean the Catholic internet? Wow, you got the password

to the Catholic internet? Amazing. I just read. Is that like the Silk Road? But like, just with holy water? What is that? Guys, you gave me an assignment.

I took it seriously. This is so funny because I think if you're like Chris and I and you've been completely deadened to all horror movies, you're like, oh, there's Catholicism

in this one. There's Catholicism in like 40% of all horror movies. Because it's an actual rite in the Catholic Church still. There are guidelines for it. They have updated them in 1999, just so you know. And so you really have to have someone who can evaluate for mental health and rule it out before you perform an exorcism. But it is still allowed according to the Vatican, which I don't even know what to say about that. But the Catholics are pretty much like, these are okay.

These aren't the most insensitive representations of Catholicism that we've ever seen, which I find baffling. Anyway. Your next assignment is to watch a film called The Devil and Father Amorth. This is a documentary directed by William Friedkin in 2017 that features a real life exorcism.

And I know they happen. It's not just Catholicism. It's all sorts of cultures. I just, you know, it just seems like Ed and Lorraine are a little too deep in the system at this point. So one of the things that I thought really recommended the first Conjuring movie is it did a lot of what you were describing at the beginning, Amanda, which was a lot of the in-between.

The movie was mostly in-between. It was mostly scene setting. It was not a lot of demons or demonology. It was about a family that had moved into a new home and slowly but surely, the matriarch of that family becomes possessed. Lily Taylor. Lily Taylor in a great performance. One of the great horror movie performances of the last 30 years.

And I thought the movie did a good job of kind of withholding scares. And it feels like we're in the place where a lot of horror movies get to, candidly. Especially once they get into their third and fourth iterations where it's like there needs to be a demon showdown every 25 minutes that really didn't work as well for me in this movie i don't know chris what do you think in terms of

balancing how they told this story yeah i thought it was like probably i think it's worth noting that james wan did not direct this one right so james wan directed the first two conjurings is one of the more accomplished horror filmmakers of our of the last like 20 20 or so years and this one just was like a lot more chaotic and loud and like even the in-between scenes i'm thinking one in particular where a man who owns a dog kennel insists on listening to blondie at like really like high volume you know like even like these quote-unquote moments in between are loud and like sort of um kinetic so i thought that the sort of stately way

that Juan did the first one and to some extent the second one, which I like quite a bit. Me too. Was kind of absent. Even though it was, you know, interesting enough and like I'm just like, I'll watch a demon possession movie.

It's not that much of a chore for me. I did think that like I noticed the absence of the sort of original filmmaker of the project. Yeah, James Wan is releasing a horror movie later this year called Malignant, which I have not seen, but have heard is very upsetting. That is the early word on Malignant. So I look forward to that. Amanda, I don't know if you'll necessarily want to join for that one. Were you scared of the original Conjuring? What'd you make of the first one? I was not scared. I did also watch it at home, which I think just helps. And

I'm not like getting up. I'm not, except for when I'm Googling exorcism. I'm not on my phone that much, but it's just that you're not kind of trapped in a theater, which I think is part of the horror movie experience. And also because it does have kind of the strands of mythology or history or the characters are trying to figure out who these these people are um and it's also just a really great house though i did think that um the house in in this movie had a yeah it was in this movie i can't remember whose house it is but just great kitchen great kitchen cabinets great tile really appreciate kind of the farmhouse consistency throughout these films. So it wasn't scary. Maybe it was creepy. And then, but I do think the first one's creepier than this one. This one is a bit more obvious. Yeah, I agree. You really brought

the Nancy Meyers ethics to the Conjuring universe there. I mean, I didn't even talk about Vera Farmiga's styling. Yeah, what do you think of that? It's really unique and I assume it's sort of based on real life. I mean, these are technically real people. Yeah, I mean, there's like Ed and Lorraine exist. I don't know whether or not they

went on this kind of like successful run of exorcisms in real life. Right. And also getting the legal system to recognize the exorcism. Is that a true thing? Yes. So this story is based on a true story.

And they did attempt to, you know, the quote unquote possessed used a demon defense. I do not believe he was successful in his demon defense. I don't think that's a huge spoiler. I believe Lorraine Warren is still, I believe she just passed away recently. She saw the first couple of Conjuring films. You should look at some contemporaneous photos of her. I think if Vera Farmiga's style is something,

Lorraine Warren was getting after it. That hair was pulled back quite tightly in a lot of these photos. Vera Farmiga's style is something, Lorraine Warren was getting after it. That hair was pulled back quite tightly in a lot of these photos. Vera Farmiga in general, just love her. Just absolute kook. Still think she's pretty foxy. She's captivating on screen. She sounds like she's 64.

I'm a fan. She's a kook and she's foxy and I love her. I gotta accept that that's really the phase I'm moving into, you know? Approaching my 40s. Like, these gals, these dames, they're beautiful. Love to see them on screen.

She's a great actor. She's had a really weird career. I rewatched The Departed recently and, you know, she obviously was in the... I love her in The Departed. She's amazing. She's so good. And she's pretty great in everything,

but she has clearly assumed this, like... don't know her and sarah paulson are in some kind of race to see who can be like a little bit more disturbing in each performance that they pursue like they're they're always playing a woman who's like a little bit eccentric a little bit like she's very powerful but she's also like maybe a little bit too in touch with the spirits uh but i i like what she does and patrick wilson i feel like we've talked about him a bunch on this show and on the rewatchables. Just one of the more reliable screen presences of the last 15 years. And dumb stuff like Aquaman and in movies like this and Insidious, he can really be counted on to hold a movie together in a way that is like unflashy but successful. What else about The Conjuring?

I feel like it's weird that it took this long for there to be a third Conjuring film. There have already been three Annabelle movies, which are not bad, but that's kind of funny. Was this delayed much?

Because, I mean, I think obviously also this is the mothership, right? You can only go back to this so many times, and I think that they actually have played this franchise really, really well,

where it's like there are probably some people out there who care as much about Annabelle as they do about Ed and Lorraine, you know? Um, so that doesn't always happen for stuff like, you know,

like that doesn't always happen for like, uh, like these major franchises. Like, I don't know if there's people out there who are like Hobbs and Shaw, like purists or anything like that. Like they probably are just like, I like Vin and I like the family and the cars or whatever,

you know? Yeah. Real dialogue from past nine. Let's talk about third movies. Yeah. In series because they're interesting. I think we're going to take a pretty broad definition of threequel in this conversation, which is to say, in some cases, they're pure sequels.

And in some cases, they're part of a lineage of movies that fit together well. We talk a lot about franchises on this show. The James Bond franchise, for example, does not necessarily operate in true sequel fashion. It's part of this long string of movies. And some movies are like that. And some are part of pure trilogies. The Star Wars trilogy, the Lord of the Rings trilogy, etc. Amanda, are there any rules of a threequel, of a third movie?

Is there anything you have to do? We know in sequels you got to go bigger and faster and quote unquote better. What does the third movie have to do in a series? Well, it does depend a little bit on whether it's a trilogy or whether it's part of a franchise and whether it needs to like kind of keep a storyline or things going or whether it needs to bring closure. And I think the most important thing that a third film needs to know is do is to know which one of those it is.

Like it needs to either know that it is the ending and like provide you with an ending inevitably someone can figure out figure out a way to make a fourth film anyway um or if it is going to be part of a storyline needs to have some sense of direction and the the third the really bad third ones of which there are many are when people are just floating out in the water being like i guess this worked and we'll also do this and like copy and paste some other stuff and maybe we'll see you guys later yeah i don't really tend to like those as much i like the ones that seem to have they know where they're going yeah but chris i feel like you and i grew

up with horror movies where the third movie was oh it was always a little bit unclear if we were going to continue down the road with Jason or Freddie or if this was the end. We were definitely going to continue. Yes, we did continue on for another 30 plus years with those characters. But especially in the Friday the 13th series, I feel like it was like, Jason really died this time, guys. Four years will not be back. And then he was just back 18 months later. What do you think of when you think of a third film? I honestly think of Dark Knight Rises for a very specific reason. Because there was,

that was one of the first times along, I guess Matrix, the last Matrix movie too, where you started to get a lot of like everything ends, you know, finally the conclusion to the epic saga like a real like self-conscious aspect to like the ending of the trilogy the ending of the series and then of course like you're just gonna get another batman movie or a joker movie or you're gonna get another matrix movie this year and like these these things just kind of like will never really go away but it is a very very effective marketing strategy to be like you've been here with us the entire

time now come see maze runner death cure you know like let's finish the job um as opposed to three in seven or nine or whatever um i was just we were just talking on the watch we were interviewing the guy who did the bureau the guy who created what is Watch? The Watch is a show that Kate Winslet is on. No, we were talking to Eric Rochon who did this French TV show, The Bureau. And he made a very compelling case for the perfect TV show run is five seasons. It's five seasons of 10 episodes.

And he's like, it is the actually, if you look at Friday Night Lights, if you look at The Wire, The Bureau, it's the perfect way to tell the story. And so I was curious whether you guys thought three was arbitrary or is actually the perfect number of a sort of franchise film.

That's a very good question. I think I have Lord of the Rings bias not just because I like those movies, but because those movies were very consciously pursuing a trilogy format that was maybe inspired by

Star Wars but was like we're going to do that we're going to knock this whole thing out in three and we're going to do it well and then those movies came out

and it's the rare time in movie history and they shot them together right and they shot them together yes it was a very like a purposefully constructed

project and for the most part everyone who saw them was like oh wow they did it that was very satisfying that that three film series and then they kind of screwed it up by going back to the well with the hobbit which chris and i of course uh viewed together uh every christmas for three christmases in a row like we're not even to the part where you talk about the hobbit movies and we're already talking about hobbit movies on this podcast. I mean, with this MGM Amazon situation, get ready because this is going to be a Hobbit cast long term. Just get ready to pod about the giant feet. In Elvish.

Only if you will sing the songs, Sean. I'm not ready to sing on this pod yet. But I think that that has made us think that like three is the magic number, you know, that we're supposed to do it that way. Well, it's also just like a movie is traditionally in three acts. So that's how you tell a complete story.

It's like it makes sense in the medium that we're used to. You're used to part one, part two, part three. I disagree. I think three seasons is also the right length for a TV show. Four and five is also when you start being like,

hmm, maybe we should like test drive this plot line and introduce Cousin Oliver and all sorts of stuff. But it is, I mean, that is like a very traditional story-based answer. But, you know, beginning, middle, end. That is what we're used to. And I do think it works, whether it's in the context of one movie or often or sometimes when you do it in three parts,

the interesting thing is like the third one is then always bad and has to stand on its own because no one knows how to end things, whether it's a single movie or a franchise or a TV show. How many divergent movies have you seen, Amanda? I only saw the first one. Chris, what about you? All of them.

You saw all of them? Yeah. Can you name them off the top of your head? Are you joking right now? Or are you serious? No, I've seen all. Your podcast co-host is one of the stars of the Divergent franchise. I think I've seen all the Divergent movies.

I can't name them all, but I can name all the Maze Runner movies. I've told you this. Whenever I take international flights, I actually just watch an entire franchise. I think I watched all the Divergent movies. Do they have different names? Yeah. It's like Divergent, Allegiant, and I can't remember the third one.

Right. I watched Maze Runner, I watched Scorch Trials, and I watched Death Cure. How much money have you been paid over the years by the producers of the Maze Runner films? Is it north of $100,000? I mentioned it three times on the big picture. Well, you have a vast reach on this show, and you are clearly leveraging it to be paid

by the corporation that makes those movies. I think you should start worrying if I'm ever like, how was Maze Runner overlooked for the Palme d'Or? I think three seems generally right i absolutely agree with your point about tv shows amanda i season four is always when i'm like why are we still doing this what am i doing with my life sucked yeah that's right i mean you are season settle down season three of friday night lights is kind of when it comes to its conclusion right i mean that's season two had the whole writers strike thing but it's then they just kind of start the show again

and I actually like what they do with the last two seasons but it's just a different you know it's like a spinoff show should we talk about our our favorite number threes yeah Amanda do you want to start us off I love your number five pick thank you. I thought about putting it onto mine. My number five is National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation, which is a movie I don't think we've ever discussed on this podcast, but definitely a childhood touchstone for me. We watched it all of the time at Christmas. I think my dad really thought it was funny,

and I vividly remember I had to cover my eyes at any nudity or any of the more like off, you know, adult jokes. But I heard them anyway. And I rewatched it this week. I just it really makes me laugh hysterically. humor to be very funny and has definitely also inflected my understanding of how Christmas works and how anything relating to do with home improvement works. Like I, I realize now, like when you open one of those attic things, like I just like when, when mayor opened the attic, I was like, Oh my God, watch out for the ladder because that is just so um ingrained in me and you know as we have done some home repair projects in in my house in the last few days or weeks i just i i may or may not be

married to clark rizwald at this point but that's okay um i say that i can't wait for zach's hallelujah holy shit speech but you know, like the winning determination to figure it out, even as things go really wrong and you like fall off the ladder and into the gutter. But I, you know, this is also a third film that I definitely saw before the other two films that I have since seen Vacation and European Vacation. It's like of this, I mean, it is consistent. It's of the series.

It's the same family, but can also stand on its own. And I think is probably the most famous of the three at this point because of the Christmas of it all. Well, I think also because it has the least amount of nudity, maybe shown more. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's a holiday staple too you can count on it every single year running on amc to and and people will watch it i i still will watch it pretty much anytime i catch it on television because it has the thing that i think all these movies have which is just like a series of discrete set pieces that are fun to watch you know and if you jump in 40 minutes and it works just as well these are great movies like this is kind of like the end of chevy chase in many ways for me.

I don't, he doesn't really do a whole lot after this movie that I care about, but it's a really fun one. It's a really good point about watching a third film that you don't really,

there's no universe. You don't have to understand the Griswold family experience. The actors who play the kids are different from the last two movies. So in many ways, they are kind of standalone

unto themselves. Okay, Chris, why don't you give us your number five? Oh, I have Exorcist 3 for number five. So this is one of the scariest movies I've ever seen. I don't think Amanda could hang with this at all. Like, I think it's actually like way too realistic to enjoy for you. Probably it's got one of the great jump scares, I think, in movie history,

which I won't spoil, but it stars George C. Scott. And speaking of whether or not you can view it outside of the rest of the trilogy or the rest of the Exorcist films you could, I don't think it would make much sense it is very much a sort of sister film to the first Exorcist movie and does a lot

about what happens to the characters in the first Exorcist film and it's 20 years later and there's a serial killer stalking Georgetown, gorgeous George DC movie by the way with a cameo from Patrick Ewing to the characters in the first Exorcist film and it's 20 years later and there's a serial killer stalking Georgetown. Gorgeous George DC movie, by the way. And with a cameo from Patrick Ewing, no less, in this movie. So yeah, Exorcist 3,

it's directed by William Peter Batty, who directed or who wrote, obviously, the novels that the Exorcists are based on. Amanda, this is a core text for you. What do you think of Exorcist 3? So what's the story on the demon that they're exorcising? What's his backstory?

What's his backstory? What's his damage? His collars are too big. So he needs to be removed. It's the devil. I know, but the devil has many faces, you know? Well, he looks like Jason Miller in this one Jason Miller famous

famous actor Jason Miller but he is up and Brad Dourif yeah and and Jason Miller of course the the playwright an actor who appeared in the original Exorcist film originated the jump into me you know the that's where he at the end of the Exorcist he he receives

the demon Pazuzu I believe that demon's name is yeah and then leaps from the window sorry to spoil The Exorcist for anybody who hasn't seen it wonderful film I'm not going to talk about

my number five because Chris has got it later on his list so we'll hold it for the moment Amanda yeah radical choice this is so slick

there's two things here there's this one and then there's the fantasy which is bunching a bunch of movies together, which I stole for spy movies. But I will say is like, you guys are starting to come up with your tricks here. Well, otherwise, we're just going to have to talk about Hobbits all the time.

So I chose to not talk about Hobbits or any other. I mean, I'm still talking about franchises that we talk about all the time. But my number four is The Last Days of Discoco which is a Whit Stillman movie from 1998 that is part of a um a very loose trilogy I think it's a trilogy because Whit Stillman was like these are the three uh these three movies are are a trilogy um those are Metropolitan Barcelona and then Last Days of Disco and they are about uh yuppies and yuppies in the in in the 80s and maybe early 90s. But they they are a core movie text for me, I guess, another late stage yuppie. all star, well, they all feature Chris Eigeman and Last Days of Disco also, which is another way that you can consider them a trilogy, even though he's playing different characters.

Barely. And last, what? Is he playing different characters? Well, right, exactly. I mean, it is really funny also to re-watch Last Days of Disco after having watched Kicking and Screaming like a bunch of times. And obviously Metropolitan and Barcelona

come before Kicking and Screaming, the Noah Baumbach film. But then Eigeman like really gets to another level and kicking and screaming and then it's bringing it back for last days in disco it's it's very special he deserves an oscar um last days in disco also stars kate beckinsale and shout out chris ryan chloe 70 and um is uh just about young disaffected people people in New York being cynical and vying for status and also maybe love and saying empty but funny things to each other. And I adore it. And I love all Whit Stillman movies. And we don't talk about him enough.

So this is counting as a trilogy for me. One of my favorite things about Whit Stillman movies is the cool seeming jobs that everyone has in these movies. Even if they're lowly occupants of those jobs, Chloe Sevenye is a book editor working in Manhattan. Chris Igerman is a disco manager. Mackenzie Astin works in advertising. Matt Kiesler is an assistant district attorney. Robert Sean Leonard is a wealthy environmental lawyer. All of these things seem like jobs you just aspire to. And if you see this movie when you're 16, as I did, you're like, must be fucking cool to live in New York

and have just a little bit of money, but not enough to be rich. That must be an awesome experience. Very aspirational movie. Also full of like monsters. Most of the people in the movie are terrible people.'s like it's like aspirational to live in a railroad apartment go to actually i think the disco part of it seems really fun and the soundtrack is great um be in bad relationships catch an std and then file for unemployment um but they make it look so

cool that we all wanted to do it. Yeah, these are really fun movies. If people haven't seen Witt's movies, especially those first three are great. Barcelona and Metropolitan are also wonderful. Okay. CR, what's next for you? Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome, which is the third Mad Max movie.

It was the last Mad Max movie we thought until Fury Road finally, finally came out a few years ago. This movie is batshit. This is a crazy movie. When people are like, Thor Ragnarok's so weird. It's like, no, it's not.

Dude, you don't know anything about Master Blaster and Tina Turner presiding over a kingdom of batshit and Mel Gibson and his child army this movie is so crazy but so good it still has all the like george miller like just the best chase director maybe of all time and there's several amazing car chases in this and it's just like a really disturbing vision of like a of a dystopia which like obviously has become kind of like a pat move now is like every movie is set in like a dystopia after something but like

this was like really really fucked me up when i was a kid and i saw this and um i haven't watched it again super recently but the last time i did i was just really blown away by how gutsy it was that they were like we're gonna take this thing that you think is just like leather jackets and car chases and make it like really grimy, like very much mired in the mud. Really fun movie. Another movie that I think you wouldn't necessarily predict

would be coming at the end of Mad Max 2 because it is so different and it expands the world a lot and also inspired famously the California Love video featuring Tupac and Dr. Dre.

I will say that the Mad Max movies were really great, you know, because like so many of these these films have, I think, especially the third, the third ones and trilogies, they they strive for like this finality, you know, they strive to like kind of like put an exclamation point at the end and just be like, this is where this person has ended their journey. But Mad Max is really good about being like, and then Max drove into the desert. He's never happy and he's never settled. It's just like, you never know. You could just be next adventure. It's just like you after every episode of the big picture. You're like, maybe I'll be back. Maybe I won't. We'll see. Did I offend Sean? Did I offend Amanda? Maybe I did. Maybe I didn't. My number four is the Lord of the Rings with the return Return of the King I've pretty much talked about this movie enough in the past and

Amanda doesn't want to hear more about Hobbits but an incredibly satisfying conclusion to three really really well done big top productions and while the film does have seven to eight endings I probably could have used with one or two less I did revisit it during quarantine as many people did I feel like this was a real warm blanket for people and a real incredible way to kill time me and my wife actually watched all three movies at Christmas when everybody was like

tweeting about it I watched it before that I think I watched it over the summer but for some reason I guess it has emerged a little bit as like a holiday tradition everyone gets I think it's on tnt like non-stop for a while well i think it was also added to hbo max which of course launched last year so and i think you could watch the peter jackson the special edition versions which are longer and more expansive etc etc but you know just an incredibly fun movie in a movie that was planned and executed in the way that it was planned and that's obviously really hard to do so that's my number four number three amanda this is

controversial stuff here i mean it's mission impossible three which is i suppose divisive i think some people really love it and we're like the franchise isn't good until mission impossible three i think other people are like i don't need the jj abrams like you know ethan hunt and love like backstory you know whatever of it all i just think it's an example of an actually watchable third installment in a major franchise like it's they have good action set pieces the one in rome where they invade the vatican This is a really Catholic podcast, by the way. Just all respect to Catholic people of which I technically am one. But that's really fun.

Great cast. Philip Seymour Hoffman as the villain. The Count to Ten scene is the best scene in this entire franchise. Yeah. I just, it's, and it's not guaranteed that the third movie in one of these, like, massive, massive reboot action franchises is

going to be good in fact most of them are really bad and this is like in entirely enjoyable so i'm going with it i don't really remember the plot of this film other than philip seymour hoffman is that like it's all mcguffins it's the like it's the rabbit's foot chase it's like looking for the rabbit's foot everywhere okay and then at then at the end, he's like, will you tell me what the rabbit's foot is? And, and Lawrence Fishburne is like, if you stay and then Ethan's like, no, I have to go off in the sunset with my beautiful wife. How will we celebrate mission impossible seven when it comes along? I was thinking we've never done a Tom Cruise hall of fame, right?

I mean, that could be like a knockdown drag out. That's like a three episode arc. I know, but I mean, what else do we have to do? We could try and do some of our own stunts. Like we could try and do. That's what I was going to say.

Halo jump onto the Quassette so that we can jump across an alley and see if you can land on the roof. Yeah. Are you in Amanda? Sure. Yeah, that'd be great. I'm going to be wearing

a full mask of you though when I do it. I wish you luck chris what's your number three scream three um do you guys like scream movies i like the first one yeah first one is one of my favorite movies of all time three i don't really remember very well there are this is so this three is about is the behind the scenes in the making of stab the movie about scream or the movie about sydney and everything i i my wife and i love these movies and we watch them probably once a once every two years or so like like they just come up especially during halloween and the reason why i put scream 3 in there is that there is a lot of stuff in scream 3 about what happens when you're making the final movie of a horror trilogy and how

the rules change and all these things. So it's more of a meta pick. I really like this movie. It's really enjoyable and it has an absolutely incredible Parker Posey performance as Courtney Cox. So she is playing Gale and she

just does all this Courtney Cox stuff and it's wonderful. Are you excited for Scream 5? Yeah. I think these are really reliably enjoyable movies. I even like the... I think that they're really good. Chris, did you

like Ready or Not? Yeah, I thought so. I thought it was pretty cool. That's Radio Silence, right? That's the guys who directed it? Yeah. Those guys are directing Scream 5. Matt Bettinelli-Olpin

and Tyler Gillett. Amanda, you did not see Ready or Not, I presume. No, I didn't. I did see Scream 1 in my Aunt Betty's basement in like 1996 or whatever and was scared out of my mind.

Yeah, I mean, I can't imagine. You see like that Drew Barrymore scene still is brutal. I mean, also, that's the calls coming from inside the house, right? Yeah. Yeah, that's a central pop cultural reference now. Yeah. And Scream 3 also features Wes Craven in a cameo

or Lance Hamrickson playing a really sleazy producer. Okay, my number three is Toy Story 3. like Lance Hamrickson playing like a really sleazy producer. Okay. My number three is Toy Story 3. I think I just put this on this list just to, to razz you guys about not liking animated movies, but this is also a movie that I think justifies itself in a lot of ways. Is this the last one? It's not.

They released a fourth one in 2019, which was okay. And, and featured Forky. I don't know if you guys are familiar with Forky, the plastic fork that is fashioned. I wish you could see

Chris's face right now. What's Forky's... What's his arc? What's going on with him? Honestly, it's pretty amazing. It's about self-doubt because he is literally saved garbage.

And so his catchphrase is, I'm trash. And you can make fun of the toy story films all you want i'm not making fun of anything i'm just asking questions let me let me position this to you i have a three-year-old nephew named jack don't don't bring kids into this don't don't make me feel i will god damn it chris because toy story has obviously just changed jack's life and has given him a vision of what it means to be friends, what it means to build a community, what it means to value

your own life and your own existence. Toy Story 3 is also really scary and kind of a horror movie. There's like a threat level in this movie that is pretty disturbing and it's wild. What's the threat level? All the toys are going to be destroyed. They're going to be killed. That's it?

They're going to be incinerated, in be killed that's it incinerated in fact that's it okay what's the upshot of this this take for you chris like yeah i mean it was actually just doing the work for me which i really appreciate thank you chris i i just i'm not even trying to be a dick i think you're probably right toy story 3 by all accounts grown men sobbing in the aisles about this doll. It was clearly a really meaningful moment for a lot of people. I just think it's so funny when people

actually have to start talking about what happens in these movies and they're like, the toys might get burned up or put in the trash. That's just like a real small potatoes, brother. Chris, you just talked about mad max beyond thunderdome you just talked about master blaster like who among us cast the first stone you know let's let's look closely at the our passions and the things that we care about

before casting aspersions what do you say amanda melting down completely right now it's just it's like really fun when chris says all the mean things that are so funny so i don't have to it's literally the only thing i'm nasty to him about it's true it's a real loser's mentality though you know it's like you got the bums lost get a job that's my take on your opinions about animated films you get a job and also start to like films for grown-. How about that? I love plenty of films for grownups. I look forward to talking about them in numbers two and number one on my list.

Okay. I mean, it's all about balance for grownups. Sort of. Well, that's an interesting conversation, right? It's a real threshold.

It is a threshold. Let's use that as a segue to number two, because we share a number two, all three of us. Amanda, what's, what's our number two, because we share a number two, all three of us. Amanda, what's our number two? Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. Had to be. Awesome movie.

Should have been the last one. Should have concluded the trilogy. It would have been probably, well, two out of three ain't bad, but if you take one in three, you would have to say probably the best trilogy ever ever made i would argue that's an interesting conversation and uh you know a incredible sean connery performance uh i know amanda loves allison duty as the nazi professor you know and she's maintained a a well-curated allison duty fan site since since the invention of the internet what if i that's anyway i don't know how to do that but um we have a we have a raiders of the lost ark rewatchables coming next week which is very exciting and that that led to me revisiting all four of the ind Jones movies. I think it's widely accepted

that the order is one, three, two, four in terms of the quality. I don't know, Amanda, do you take Last Crusade over Raiders? There are some people who like this movie more than Raiders. I mean, I do love the Sean Connery addition. And in a lot of ways,

that's really like classic sequel stuff. I'm not a huge Temple of Doom fan. Even though that's actually become the cool edgy take on the internet is being like, well, Temple of Doom is actually really superior. And that's cool. Who were you impersonating just there?

All the guys that write lists on the internet that are just like, Temple of Doom taught me that misogyny is cool. These are all of Sean's Letterboxd followers. Right. But I think like Raiders and Last Crusade are more of a piece. And so like Raiders is the first one.

I think it has to be the best. But there's just like a real like, let's just do it again and have fun energy to last crusade and especially once sean connery shows up i mean i was just like giggling every time he said anything when i was re-watching it it's a delightful performance awesome just yeah just play the hits you know there's a great subversion in his performance though because you know obviously sean connery is so dashing in almost every film he's ever made, and he's kind of bumbling in this movie. He's kind of a physical comedian,

and he's kind of a ne'er-do-well relative to Indy's ability to survive anything. He is comic relief. Amanda also, Cup of Christ. We're still going with Catholicism in this plot. It is also just like anything with a Holy Grail plot, I love. You know, obviously the actual arthur stuff monty python dan

brown the jay-z song like whatever you want that's right holy grail you watching toy story me and amanda reading grail stories we are not the same you guys are listening to magna carta holy grail the worst jay-z album by a wide margin that That's what you're doing. Like a couple of corn dogs sitting on the beach rocking out. It's fine. I like Jay is just, you know, in his granddad stage and I love it. What else about Last Crusade?

I will say when I was rewatching it, it was the first time I'd rewatched in a long time. I forgot that a genuine Arthurian knight shows up in the third act. That was a little confusing. I'm not totally sure I get the science on that. I feel like we needed Ed and Lorraine Warren

to kind of check in on that. He's been drinking the water from the Holy Grail. What's wrong with you? You just watch children's movies? You can't understand the plot? Yeah, it's seriously. The guy drinks the blood of Christ and he gets to fucking stand watch.

You mad? We're mad at you. We wanted to have a conversation with a grown-up. It seems like you're big mad. Okay. Seems like you're mad that your toys got burned. Okay. You're mad that you hang out with dudes

who like Temple of Doom on Letterboxd. I am mad. Wait, can I ask? Did you guys talk about on the rewatchables the fact that Harrison Ford does not have an Oscar and is never going to have an Oscar? He's just never going to have an Oscar. It didn't come up. Harrison Ford is never going to have an Oscar and I'm pissed. He'll get a lifetime achievement one, right?

Well, but that doesn't count. One of the funniest things about it is they keep dragging his ass back to the ceremony to be like can you please give the award out and like you know he famously gave out the um i believe he gave out the saving private ryan shakespeare in love year because there was an expectation that he was going to give it to his indiana jones director steven spielberg and he did not and he he did he present this year he did right yeah yeah because he had the notes of like here are all the things that like the editor said about blade runner oh that's right yeah that was funny and he's been a consistent presence at the academy for years and years i mean we did talk on the show about his run from the late 70s through the mid 90s which is yeah unmatched there's there's no no precedent

no comparison point amongst any leading man in Hollywood history. Just a part of more interesting movies. They just started shooting Indy 5 I think this week. We need Harrison to make it through that. I'm a little worried about that. And then he just needs to pass the fedora on to Boyd. Okay.

Let's get him an Oscar and then whatever you want, Chris. If Boyd Holbrook is the new Indiana Jones I don't what will I do I don't think he's going to be the new Indiana Jones we've talked about this who's going to be the new Indiana Jones it's probably going to be like Vera Farmiga I don't that'd be good spiritual is not really the like number one quality I associate with Indiana Jones

so what's going on with Calista Flockhart these days she's supposed to wasn't she gonna be in something I don't remember

are they rebooting Ally McBeal I heard the Ooga Chugga song the other day when I was walking down the street that really took me back

she has not appeared in anything since Supergirl when she had a recurring role in season two playing Cat Grant which we all remember fondly. Let's go to number one. CR.

Yeah. Your number one film is definitely going to be a movie for big boys. Big grown men who are mature and would never watch childlike entertainments. So what is your big boy pick? Die Hard with a Vengeance. It's about two grown men running through New York City

and answering pay phones because a German terrorist keeps fucking making them do Simon Says games. Wow, what a mature choice. Features some of the great New York stage actors actors and supporting roles you know i just like to support broadway i'm sorry uh do we need to talk about how this is like one of the great summer movies one of the great new york movies an amazing comeback for a diehard ferret franchise i think two is fun but is like a renny harlan movie and is gory and just kind of weird and at night at the airport. This is

just a fucking breakneck amazing sequence of scenes in this movie. It gets a little bit dull once they get to the Sawmill River Parkway. yeah, and Jeremy Irons is fucking awesome. We've talked about this movie before, but this is pretty easily my favorite third film.

I'm a huge fan. It's my number five. And for all the reasons you stated, and of course that famous bit of lore about it not even being a diehard movie, it being a movie called Simon Says that they retrofitted to make a John McClane movie. I wanted to ask you guys, have either of you seen the movie 16 Blocks?

Are you familiar with the movie 16 Blocks? With Mos Def? With Mos Def and Bruce Willisis it's on hbo max right now i'd never seen it before a friend of mine had been recommending it for a year and i was like yeah i'll check it out see if it's great i thought it's pretty damn good and it's basically a diehard movie it's a very low-key like let's what if john mclean really was on the verge of retirement what what would he do and what would happen to him if the and he's got to get like a witness or like a prisoner like out of like a the... And he's got to get a witness or a prisoner out of a precinct, right?

He's got to take a witness 16 blocks to the courthouse in time to testify against a dirty cop. And the police department is not happy about this. Pretty entertaining movie. It's one of Richard Donner's last movies. Of course, the director of Lethal Weapon, Superman, The Goonies, a number of great movies. I don't know.

I just watched it last week and thought I would bring it up. It's basically Die Hard 4 and we pretend like Live Free or Die Hard or whatever never happened. That's the one with Oliphant, right? That's the one with Oliphant. Amanda, what's your number one?

This one goes out to Chris Ryan. Iron Man 3? Yeah, Iron Man 3. How'd you know? Before Midnight. That's the third movie in the Before trilogy by Richard Linklater starring Ethan Hawke and Julie Delpy. I mean, they just, they stick the landing and it was really not guaranteed. I mean, it was because it's all of these people involved, but it's hard to stick the landing in any movie. And I think the

way that before sunset ends with that amazing moment of hope and like, it is the romantic comedy, like happily ever after, you know, anticipation, everything is to come. And before midnight is what happens, you know, after a marriage, uh, And it's upsetting at times. Obviously, there's that very famous fight scene, which every time I watch it still makes me really uncomfortable. But I think that what this movie does, in addition to just being good in the context of a trilogy, is that it just really does like the time that has passed.

And obviously that is a major concept and interest of Richard Linklater's. I think that this trilogy does it better than boyhood personally, but you get a, you get a sense that everything that has come before in, in this movie, which is like what a third film should do, but also really puts you in a specific place and moment with these people's lives and who these people are and that they can just kind of return to it every however many years

and make it as real and as lived in as they have it's like like a stunning accomplishment uh love this movie but i'm a little bit afraid to return to it as i creep closer to the ages of ethan hawke and and Julie Delpy's characters. Do you guys want another one? Yeah. Me too. I feel like this is his great project. I can't imagine being...

I don't mind if the next one is like, it's just the two of them at an Airbnb and they talk for two hours or whatever. I don't necessarily need it to be some sort of monumental statement, but I think it would be cool to or whatever. I don't necessarily need it to be some sort of monumental statement, but I think it would be cool to see again. They definitely did make three perfect movies though. Right. And to me, it does also feel complete. But I think my answer is always like, I don't want another one to something good because I think you're going to screw it up.

And I think the magic of Before Midnight is that they actually didn't screw up before sunset and before sunrise, which I think are both excellent, even if they sometimes make me a little uncomfortable. So I mean, if they want to do it, I trust them, actually, if they feel like they can do it, I'll I'll take it and be excited about it. Yeah, I'm torn. I mean, I think you make a good point, Amanda, that could they, let's say Jesse, you know, murders Celine in the fourth one. That's not, that might change the way that we imagine these films. What if a demon jumps out of Celine and into Jesse? That could be a little bit traumatic and could change the way we view these films. I'm still a before sunset person.

I think that's just like truly one of the most lasting and memorable movie going experiences I've ever had. And I just think it's such a profound look at the way that people talk to each other and like how they connect and or don't connect. But this is a great one, too. And this one is much scarier. This is kind of the horror movie of relationship dramas in a lot of ways for me. I don't mean to belabor the point, but Amanda makes a really good one there where she talked about the passage of time, which is something so few of these movies that we've talked about actually even acknowledges. They're more about how can we go from Darth Vader to

Ewoks? They're like, what's the dark thing that then we can go to the resolution? This movie actually considers the idea of if you checked in on a series of characters over the course of their lives and showed how they changed but also everything that they had done before informed that moment in the present you know but god love die hard with a vengeance i don't necessarily feel like there's a lot of that there well i will i'll be able to address that when i talk about my number one which is The Rise of Skywalker. Will you be leading the charge for the critical re-evaluation of that film? No. The Rise of Skywalker is not my number one and I think it's quite a bad

film and it's very very funny to watch J.J. Abrams now come back hat in hand and say hey maybe we should have thought about this ahead of time. Maybe we should have planned this trilogy a little bit more effectively. That's what happens when you don't plan for your three films. It's one of the reasons why stuff like The Return of the King deserves credit, because it's pretty easy to muck up these complex stories.

My number one is The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly, which I think has a lot in common with some of the movies on Amanda's list, which is essentially a film about a character that we've seen in two previous films but is not necessarily a sequel. This is of course the man with the no name character played by Clint Eastwood and he's ensnared in this kind of three way showdown throughout this film

with Lee Van Cleef and Eli Wallach and it's an adventure movie. It's a western. It's obviously a spaghetti Western. Features arguably the greatest score in the history of movies. Some of the most iconic. Kind of a Civil War movie.

It is a Civil War movie. And also just the tone and pacing of a lot of kind of modern action movies is clearly pulled from this movie. And it does something, I think, very similar, honestly, to The Last days of disco where you're like i just like the world that this person creates and even if there's no interconnectedness necessarily to it i want to be surrounded by this milieu i want to be i want to follow this guy on these adventures on this journey for some it's chris eigeman you know

kind of climbing his way to the top of yuppie Mountain. For some, it's the man with no name shooting Eli Wallach in the face. So that's our list. Any honorable mentions? Anything you feel bad about not talking about? I throw Goldfinger in there just for good measure. You know, I mean, obviously it's like third of 20 whatever movies. So it's hard to say like this is like a trilogy or anything. But I think that that's a worthwhile shot.

It's a pretty good Bond movie. I wanted to talk about Clear and Present Danger, which I think is really good. It's a little bit confusing because Alec Baldwin plays Jack Ryan in The Hunt for Out October. So it's not really considered the third film in a series per se, but it is the third Jack Ryan movie that we got. Right. And a pretty darn good one. I rewatched Patriot Games recently.

Did not enjoy that. I thought it was pretty poor. And Clear and Present Danger is such a significant jump up. And I couldn't think of another example of a movie where, you know, I mean, there's nothing like it, where there's two different people playing the same character across three films.

The second film doesn't work, but the third film does. It's a very odd circumstance, but Clear and Present Danger, for whatever reason, just seemed way more propulsive, way more entertaining, had a much better handle

on the Jack Ryan character and what it was that he did well. I don't know. What else? Anything else, Amanda? It's interesting because a lot of the times that second one is actually the best that's dark knight that's two towers which i actually

like the most out of the the lord of the rings movies so and you know because then you get to be the darkest you can be in that one any other honorable mentions i was gonna do an ocean 12 but i didn't i don't think it's the best it's you know, I can't believe 13 wasn't on your list. I, you know, number one, I'm, I'm, I'm trying to talk about different things, which is why I didn't put Muppets take Manhattan on my list, even though that is technically a third one. Also bad boys for life. Like why not? Um, but yeah, 11 and 12 are, are my passion projects and I don't want to be yelling out for 12 and 13 all the time. That'll detract from my RespectOcean's 12 message. Chris, how's Heist coming along?

Your streaming service? Some bugs. I think maybe contracting it out to Uzbeki tech support was kind of a reach for us. But we're trying to make every dollar stretch so that we can bring value to consumers. Usbeki tech support was kind of like a reach for us, but we were, you know, we're trying to make every dollar stretch

so that we can bring value to consumers. Interesting that you would cut corners for your passion project. That's surprising to hear. Didn't imagine that. We didn't cut corners

on this episode. We maxed it out. Thanks in part to our producer on this episode, Steve Allman, and of course, our producer on every episode, Bobby Wagner.

Thanks to both those guys for their work. Next week on The Big Picture, I think we're going to do a big time mailbag. Amanda, if you could choose a mailbag kind of angle, focus, where would you like the listeners of this show to drive their questions? And don't say making fun of me liking animated movies. No, in general, please don't send any questions about, hey, Amanda, would you consider like watching an animated movie and like rethinking it? Or like, maybe you should like, guys, we've talked through it.

Like, maybe I can just put together a highlight reel for all of you and we'll just like play it at the end of every episode. I don't, I don't know. You put me on the spot here. I think I would love to hear what people want to hear about besides the Oscars. How about that? Yeah.

There seems to be something happening here on this show where it's like, are we abandoning the Oscars? No. We're not abandoning them. We could never.

We love the Oscars, but it's June. You know? Like, let's open our horizons until we get to Oscar season. When October comes, you're going to be like the fucking Oscars are back. Chris,

let me ask you this as someone who's never heard an episode of this show. And you were, if you were going to fire up your first ever episode, what would you want to hear Amanda and I discuss? You guys have done such a good job of like kind of curating these really like specific lists over the last however many decades in movie history. So I don't want to do anything

too nostalgic or backwards looking. That's a great question. Maybe we should retire. Sounds like we've done everything we need to do. Well, you want mailbag prompts or you want me to tell you

what the show should be about going forward? No, you don't have that power. I just want to know about mailbag prompts. I'm not sure. I think it should just definitely be about Amanda having to watch Toy Story.

I've seen one Toy Story. No, I've seen more than one Toy Story and I watched two horror movies and a bunch of other things for this podcast. So don't say that I can't hang. I can hang. We're all very proud of you, Amanda. Thanks to you.

Thanks to Chris Ryan. Thanks to everybody else for listening to the show. We'll be back next week. See you then. you