The Big Picture - ‘Toy Story 5’ and the ‘Toy Story’ Movie Rankings. Plus: ‘The Death of Robin Hood’ and the Top Five Robin Hoods.

Episode Date: June 19, 2026

Sean and Amanda open today’s show with a long list of movie news headlines, including Luca Guadagnino’s Sam Altman movie ‘Artificial’ being dropped by Amazon following their OpenAI partnership, and Curry Barker inking a 10-figure deal with Universal and Blumhouse Atomic Monster for his next original project. Then, they cover a new release with Michael Sarnoski’s ‘The Death of Robin Hood’ starring Hugh Jackman. They highlight its impressively gnarly filmmaking, explain why its big flaw is in the concept of the film itself, and take a look at the history of ‘Robin Hood’ movies and discuss what makes them successful. Next, they discuss ‘Toy Story 5’, a film which Sean and Amanda had vastly different reactions to. After debating what did and didn’t work for them, they rank every film from the ‘Toy Story’ franchise. (0:00) Intro (0:36) Movie news (19:03) ‘The Death of Robin Hood’ (27:04) What makes a good ‘Robin Hood’ movie? (42:18) ‘Toy Story 5’ (1:15:19) What is Pixar now? (1:21:07) The ‘Toy Story’ movie rankings Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Producer: Jack Sanders Production Support: Lucas Cavanagh Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Sean Fennessey. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is the Big Picture 8 Conversation show about toys and friendship. On today's show, we are talking about two new releases, Toy Story 5 and The Death of Robin Hood, as well as ranking all five Toy Story movies. And we're recommending the best cinematic Robin Hoods. But first, let's talk about some movie news right after this. This spring, denim gets a softer, lighter update. Introducing Old Navy's drapey denim wide leg, a new fit that moves with you.

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Okay, Amanda, disaster strikes Luca Guadino Island. This is some fascinating news to take apart this morning. Is it, I mean, It's not good for those of us who are looking forward to this film and or have this in our movie auction for 2026. You have it in your movie? Of course I have artificial.

Listen, I ride for my guy. Okay. Even when he comes out and he's like Top Gun Maverick is terrible, you know? I was hoping to address that here as well. So Luca Guadino's new film Artificial, which is a sort of biopic, a social network style biopic of Sam Malman, the co-founder of Open AI, is no longer going. to be released by Amazon MGM. They are offloading the movie to whom we do not know yet. This is a movie that we originally speculated would be a fall 2026 release.

A couple months ago, somebody was telling us that the movie is not coming out this year. Yeah, well, it wasn't in the CinemaCon Amazon presentation. And that's when I got a little nervous. Yes. And so now it has been made clear that presumably in part because of an Open AI partnership, though that's not been clarified, Amazon doesn't feel it's the right studio to release this movie, which stars Andrew Garfield as Sam Altman. Hmm.

Certainly a suss corporate situation here. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that is kind of my top line reaction. This is also from the studio that, yes, brought you Project Hail Mary, but also brought you Melania. So, and it does seem like these decisions are being made at a corporate partnership, synergistic, Jeff Bezos, and various other Silicon Valley people calling each other. level rather than at a creative level. Yes. So I don't worry about this as much in terms of the quality of the movie.

I worry about this in terms of tech overlords who know nothing about art once again being in charge of creative decisions and not making good ones or making ones that suit themselves rather than artistic or the ideological integrity. I agree with you about that. Matt Bellany broke this story in his reporting. He got a quote that noted that Amazon hopes to work with Luca Guadino again. I don't know if that's going to happen anytime soon, especially in the aftermath that after The Hunt not performing very well. This is an interesting one because, you know, this does happen sometimes.

I believe Focus previously had the rights to make Paper Tiger, James Grace, forthcoming new movie. I thought immediately of the bike riders, which was a film that was originally with Fox and then they offloaded it to Focus. So this does happen. It's very rarely as politically charged. as something like this. And so now I feel like it puts an interesting gloss on the film in general. Because does it create like a new expectation for what kind of movie we think this is going to be? Yeah.

Now you think it's going to be like a real truth to power searing indictment of the evils of this AI chapter of Silicon Valley, a social network two situation. And we don't know if that's going to be true. Matt Bellamy's reporting also said that the script, which is written by Simon Rich, got a little darker or that the final product was maybe not as cheeky or whimsical as what Amazon thought that they were greenlighting. And Simon's writing style is obviously very humorous, but you could see that even as the news has evolved in the 12 months since this film was greenlit, our relationship to AI and companies like Open AI has changed a lot. And Sam Altman himself has become more of a character and a mouthpiece for a certain type of thinking about this technology and also about the way that Silicon Valley interacts with our lives. Yeah.

And also Open AI and its relationship to the White House and the current presidential administration. So this is a really, I mean, it's a fascinating movie business story. I'm still looking forward to this film, of course, but I don't know. I mean, I think it's unlikely that we'll see it this year. It's going to take a little while. You know, Jack and I were just talking about the fact that you've got a whole new marketing campaign is going to have to be established and you're going to have a brand new company figuring out how to sell the movie. Now, do you sell against this? Yeah, I mean, I think so.

I do think that it opens up a possibility for the right distributor. Now, who is that? And who it doesn't have somebody like pulling their pocket strings in a way that they are going to be able to take this on and market it as like the anti-opop. an AI anti-Sam Altman. I mean, let's go through it. It doesn't really seem like Paramount Warner Brothers would be in that mix. Netflix, really doubt it. I don't see that.

Let's see. So, Disney, no way. Definitely not. I mean, not that they would take this on anyway. I mean, Sony already has the social reckoning, so that's already in a similar vein. I don't think it's an A-24 movie. It seems a little bit more glossy than that. Yeah.

I do think... You know, widening a little bit. It's true. They have had recent successes now of both, you know, the hide the ball, this isn't what you think this is. But also the, you know, this is so taboo that we don't know if we can release it with the drama and it paid out for them. So they can at least do it in terms of corporate structure for now. Yeah. Now if they're trying to get bought, then they don't want, you know, then that becomes a whole other issue.

The thing is that all of these companies in ways that are both big and small. are, if not fully invested or keeping their eye on the AI evolution within this industry. And so whether or not infuriating one of these potential partners or potentially, I mean, it's possible that Sam Alman is just the Bill Gates of AI and that 30 years from now he is going to be seen as one of the most important technological innovator entrepreneurs in recent American history. It's also possible that he flames out dramatically and we never hear from him again. and this becomes, you know, the first chapter in his downfall. Probably not.

So, I don't know. It's interesting. I mean, neon also, I think, is probably worth considering. I guess Mooby is worth considering as well, just in terms of companies that are capitalized that could pay for a big movie like this. Because that's the other thing is, like, your Borasov's in the film. Monica Barbaro is in the film. Like, it's got a solid cast.

It's got a young and interesting cast. It definitely seems like it could be marketable. And you've got Andrew Garfield. king of the internet. Yeah. Yeah. This is a quote unquote, buzzy subject.

And I think there's absolutely an audience, but, and a way to sell it, you just have to be able to, you have to have the independent money to be able to finance that. And I don't know who does. What a strange five years for Luca.

You know, you got the cannibal romance with Timmy. Which was good. I enjoyed that movie, but did make a lot of noise because of COVID. You've got the success of challengers. You've got, after the hunt fiasco.

Which just didn't work. And now this movie, it's been really interesting for one of our guys. Well, I hope to see the film. Me too. I mean, it's possible that nobody buys it. And then what do you do? Can we buy it? Yeah.

I think I have about 52 bucks in my wallet. Let's talk to our finance structures and incentive opportunities. How are we distributed via this channel? Yeah, just in my house. Okay. Technically, it would be a Netflix release in that case. Spotify's first ever streaming film. Well, speaking of AI, or not.

Let's keep moving. Let's keep moving. Curry Barker's next film lands at Universal Blumhouse Atomic Monster. Okay. Look at that. Eight-figure deal. I don't know what the film is about. Maybe it's about Sam Altman.

Maybe it's a prequel. That would be great. We didn't say universal in the, in the, in the, and focus, but it doesn't really seem. I guess I could see focus. That's not out of the realm of possibility. They don't really lean into controversy historically. It's true. You know, the idea of speaking of Curry Barrier.

Barker being one of their Oscar campaigns this year is interesting. It actually makes the likelihood of focus swooping in and grabbing an artificial a lot less likely. Because I was thinking about what are their Oscar prospects focused this year. And they've got the Sense and Sensibility reboot. Is it a reboot? What's the word we're going to use? The newest interpretation. Yeah.

I mean, it's Jane Austen. It's like it's like Shakespeare's, you know. There's not as much catalog there. It's a legacy sequel. No, it's not a sequel. It's just the newest version. It's a prequel. You know?

No, it's not because it's the same thing that's happening real time. Have you read this? Is it a reimagining? Have you read the Evan Thompson Diaries yet? I haven't read it. Will you read that? I don't know. It's not on my list.

It's right there on this. I'm happy to let it stay there. It's, okay. So they've got the sense and sensibility film. They've got Robert Eggers's Weirwolf, which, you know, obviously I'm looking forward to that film. I'm looking forward to a wolf just tearing full. flesh off of a human.

Is that an Oscar movie? I don't know. Maybe. We say that every year and then, you know, it hits late December. Box office is pretty big. You weirdos kind of get in the mix and you're just like 14 Oscar nominations. Are we sure? Well, I think what's possible is that they look at it and even if it isn't quite what

Nospheratu was, which is this like classical Gothic romance, they might make up for. I mean, it was. It was. It was. Think of the last shot of Nostfratu. Anyway, maybe they'll make up for it by not acknowledging that film in the best picture race. But that's not like a super strong slate of potential best picture nominees. So maybe they look at a movie like artificial and say, hey, this could be an option.

Or maybe they say, hey, we had the best year ever with obsession. Why make trouble? Right. Why make trouble with artificial? Well, but then also just what universal is pushing in a larger academy sense affect what focus says. Well, no, I know. That's what I'm saying. So, like, are we, how's the budgeting working?

As far as I know, they're separate. Separate but related. I do think that a lot of the weight will go towards the Odyssey. I do as well. Anyway, looking forward to Curry's next film. So that sounds like he's got his next nine films planned. Yeah. It must be nice.

I don't know what I'm doing tomorrow. That's really not true. What am I doing tomorrow? Tomorrow we have soccer practice. Yeah. That's all I got on the slate. But it is Father's Day weekend. And so I'll do whatever I want.

You'll be watching golf. Yeah. More news. Wagner Mora and talks to play the main villain in the Oceans Prequel, which is starring and directed by Bradley Cooper alongside Margot Rabe. This is a, this is a tricky one. Is it for you? Are you fired up?

I just, I have, I feel no complications. I say, okay. Okay, okay. I say there's a lot of shenanigans going on in the world. Yeah. And I generally like, if, don't totally understand the choices of Bradley Cooper's directing career. And I like Oceans movies.

I like Margo Robbie. I like Wagner Mora. I'll watch it. I don't need to complicate this. It's not one of these wise Bradley Cooper spending 20 years of his career doing Blue Alien stuff. You know, I don't Wagner Mora can dip in, dip out. Keep doing some artistic stuff on the side.

Bradley Cooper would crush Avatar 4. If he wanted to step in on that. If he followed up Oceans 10 or whatever it's going to be called with Avatar 4, that would be fire. And if he started in it as well. This would be nine. Oceans 9? Well, they had Oceans 8 because there were eight of them. But then I guess this would be Oceans 3.

Oceans 2? What about just the ocean? Oh, beautiful. Okay. Or oceans? I was going to say, what about the oceans? The oceans. Yeah.

There we go. Okay. That's it. I like it. Do you think that Margot, Robbie, and Bradley Cooper biochemically would create George Clooney? Because they're meant to be Danny Ocean's parents. Sure. Right.

So just from a – because, you know, that's a lot of Italian going on with Clooney, right? There's a lot of – Yeah, but I'm thinking through – Listen, they can – That beautiful skin tone. They can do a lot with eyebrows right now, you know? With eyebrows. Yeah.

Okay. What can they do? Oh, my gosh. There's so many laminating, filling it. I've never touched my eyebrows. And they look nice. Congratulations to you. Yeah, there's a, but in terms of, you know, because that's one of Clooney's signatures.

So. His eyebrows. Yeah. Okay. And you don't really see a genetic. A link? Link between Margot Robbie and Bradley Cooper, but you could achieve the Clooney thing with, you know, with modern technology. Do you think it's just that there's a kind of like a unified hotness amongst the three of them that were like,

Sure. Sure, they would make Clooney. That's fine. And also, like, the voice probably, because Margarabi, you know, has the slightly lower voice. The voice? Is the vocal tone of a mother inform the vocal tone of a son? I don't know. It just... Tell us as a mother of a boys. Not as best I can tell. There was just a lot of squeaking at my house this morning, which I guess many listeners of this podcast will say is right on. But, and that's why you guys don't have podcasts. And that's why you're getting blocked. But just distinction, a distinctive voice.

I say, I'll tell you one thing. I love the sound of a woman's voice. Okay, great. Okay, more news. Daniel Kaluya is re-teaming with Shaka King, who is the director of Judas and the Black Messiah for a film called The Parlay, which is a great name for a movie, I just want to say.

This is going to Amazon MGM, so apparently it's not about Sam Altman. Tiana Taylor circling to star as well. And I believe it was six months ago where we were wondering what the hell is going on with Shaka King. Why has he not been able to make a movie since Judas and the Black Messiah,

which is a movie that you and I and Chris Ryan all really, really, really loved on this show. And that kind of came out in that sliding door period of COVID. And it did get a Best Picture nomination. And it did win Kaluya an Academy Award. But it was kind of in an awkward period of time. So I'm very excited about this. And it sounds like it's a crime thriller.

It sounds like it's an original script. And I'm pumped in. Kaluja actually has a bunch of stuff planned right now, like in the offing soon. I was reading about one movie that he has coming called Hotel, Hotel, Hotel, Hotel, which is written and directed by Michael Shanks, who made Together, the Allison Bree and Dave Franco thriller from last year. That sounded kind of interesting, the hotel film. He had something else.

He's producing an adaptation of Barney, Barney the Purple Dinosaur. Right, but that's been in the works for a while, right? There's one other large, I don't know what the next, he's got one other big project coming, and Kaluya, he's pretty choosy. He takes his time with his projects. He only made like five movies in the last 10 years. I guess he's also writing a Spider-Punk movie. He plays the British punk Spider-Man in the Spider-Verse films. Okay.

I don't know what the other movie is. I wish I could remember his other future film. I just Googled it, but it's not. Okay. Come up. Love Kaluya. Looking forward to seeing him more. Charles Melton is in talks to join Matt Damon in The Secret Daniels event pick from Universal.

That's great. Did you watch Beef Season 2? Of course not. Did you? I'm in the middle of it. Okay. I'm kind of enjoying it. So, because Widows Bay is over and so now.

That's pretty much it. You nailed it. Yeah. We can kind of do one show at a time, Eileen and I. Okay. We're on to Beef Season 2. Terrific cast, Melton, Kaylee Spaney, Oscar Isaac, Carrie Mulligan.

I'm a lot of your people. I enjoy these people. I don't know how to watch TV. Okay. It's done for me. Zach tried to watch a TV show while he was like on day two of surgery recovery, and then turned to me 40 minutes and it was just like, I just don't know how to watch TV.

Was it Mattlock? What show is it? No, it was a spinoff of For All Mankind that Chris and Andy were very... Star City. Yeah, no. He didn't get into it. But it's not that it was bad. It's just that it's TV.

It's not our language. Okay. Yeah, I mean, look, Chris is very persuasive. I do want to watch Star City, but who can find the time? I don't have it. I'm busy watching In Search of Darkness 1990 to 1994, which is a six-hour compilation of people talking about all of the horror films that were released in those four years. That's what I'm doing.

I'm slowly chipping. away at that. That's beautiful. Thank you. Last story. Wow. Yeah. Speaking of Bradley Cooper. So Sean Penn has written and plans to direct a film about January 6th. The film, I guess, is seen through the eyes of a police officer who was there on the day of the insurrection at the Capitol. Sean Penn wants Bradley Cooper to star in the film as the police officer. Warner Brothers is going to make this movie. You say what? American sniper two. The plastic baby returns. Oh, wow.

Dear Matt. Maybe it's the plastic baby all grown up. So then it's a plastic Q Shaman or whatever that person was called? It's like a Pinocchio situation where he's become a real boy. They just couldn't get her baby. Q Shaman. Damn, who's going to play Q Shaman?

I really had to like pull from the reaches of my brain to remember that. Who's going to play Q Shaman? On a text chain, Chris Ryan suggested that Tracy Lutz, to Tracy Lutz's face play Q Shaman. That sounds wonderful. Wonderful. Why am I not on that text chain? Well, there's a lot of other things going on there that you don't want to be a part of, you know. All right. It's the plastic text chain. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Makes it sound insidious. It's not insidious. It's just dorky.

This is, this sounds deranged. And it sounds like a real like, let's get this under the line before the Paramount merger closes. Like, this doesn't sound like a Paramount movie to me. Yeah. It doesn't sound like is anyone's paying attention. No, no, no. A lot of movie news. A lot going on. Yeah. Why do you think that is? The business is booming. The business is hot. wants a piece of it. Everyone wants to put out their press releases. There's a lot of movie news and that like people had meetings and like issued press releases. So we'll see how much of this actually happens. Should we start doing press releases based on conversations we have of future episodes? That is what this podcast is called. Yeah. Yeah. Sean and Amanda are strongly considering a Robin Williams Hall of Fame in July. Can we get that out? Can we alert our PR team? Okay, let's talk about the death of Robin Hood first.

We'll do Toy Story 5 second. So the Death of Robin Hood is the new movie, an original written by Michael Sarnoski. It is inspired by Robin Hood's death, which is an anonymous poem. Did you revisit this poem? No. Have you ever read it? No, I think I'm learning right now that Robin Hood, the whole legend. Oh, Robin Hood's death is a poem.

Not the legend of Robin Hood. No, because I have a book about the... Yeah, didn't you give Knox for... Christmas, yeah, which is very nice. So we have some original texts of Robin Hood, the mythology. I'm not a scholar. Nor am I. It's quite a, quite an odd folk tale. The history of it, it's origins. I tried to study up on it a little bit for this conversation to try to understand it a little bit better. This new film, which stars Hugh Jackman, Jody Comer, Bill Scars, Gard, Murray Bartlett, and Noah Jupe is set in 1247, and the story is as follows. grappling with his violent past, Robin Hood finds himself gravely injured after a battle that he thought would be his last.

He soon gets a chance at salvation when he meets a mysterious woman and a young girl. Now, Sarnosky, who was the director of Pig and A Quiet Place Day One, two movies I like quite a bit. Same. What did you think of the death of Robin Hood? At the potluck last night, I was talking to a friend who called a Quiet Place Day One, Quiet Time Zero, which is the funniest name I've ever. That's what I say to my daughter when she's not behaving. Quiet at 100, 0. And then I immediately thought of the last shot of a quiet place, part one, and the needle drop, which is really quite cringy, in my opinion.

What was it? I don't remember this. It's Lupita, like, plugging her iPhone back in. I remember that? And it's Nina Simone's feeling good. And then it cuts to black. Yeah. Also remember how they didn't have the fentanyl locked up, like, at all?

Yeah. That I, that I... That's kind of what stayed with me. It was thrilling. It was not, not moving. I saw this film last night with a large glass of Kim Crawford. I opted for the nine ounce. Thank you to everyone at Regal Paseo. And it was okay.

I like everybody involved. I think that this is a fine movie about having regrets at the end of your life and not really a Robin Hood movie at all. Right. I agree with that. So that is sort of my, if you want to watch Hugh Jackman, be violent. and grapple with his choices in a medieval setting, two thumbs up. Yeah, I think if you want to see that, you should just watch Logan.

Yeah. That's my, well, but that's not a medieval setting. So maybe you're really into, maybe you want Game of Thrones minus the magic and dragons. Yeah, yeah. I think, I think, well, Game of Thrones is not set in a real timeline on Earth. Well, Bill Simmons and I disagree. Okay. You guys can hold that.

I was not a big fan of this film. I was a little disappointed by this one. I think I don't fully understand why it exists. I mean, I agree with you completely. I'm not an expert on the Robin Hood tale, but I've seen almost all the iconic films. I've seen all the iconic films. I watched the 1922 version yesterday.

And, you know, Robin Hood is, of course, robbed from the rich and steal from the poor and is considered a sort of, you know, underdog bandit fighting on behalf of the Saxons against the evil Prince John and faithful to King Richard and, you know, battling the sheriff of Nottingham. And this movie obviously dispenses with all of that. None of that is really a part of this story. This is very much about an older man who has done a lot of terrible things, as you said, feeling regret and feeling a kind of pain. You know, it seems like the overarching conceit of the story is maybe distrust the myth, you know, that there is something about stories that we tell each other and why we tell them and why we kind of change details and redefine how people are remembered over time, which I understand as a conceit. 1,000 percent, but the film does not engage with the myth in any way, shape, or form. It starts at the very, very end.

And I mean, it has some gnarly battle scenes. But it doesn't engage in the myth or the ideology of Robin Hood in any way. It doesn't give you any sense of his life and backstory beyond him. Just saying, actually, my name is Robin Hood a few times. You don't, to dispel the myth, you have to, if not portray it, then at least communicate it. Yeah. And the film does not at all. Yeah, if it was, if the name of the movie was the death of Steve McGillicuddy, and Hugh Jackman said,

hello, young squire, my name is Steve McGillacuddy, we'd just be like, this is a weird movie about an really angry old man who keeps killing people and has some regrets at the end of his life. And you could have maybe swapped in any number of different, you could have said this is about King Arthur or Merlin or any number of kind of sacred, folkloric figures and had a similar point, but I'm not sure if that point is super well told. The movie's very well made, and it gives it kind of like in the mud, in the dirt vision of this time in history, which I think is probably more period accurate than, say, the Michael Curtis film from 1938, which is technicolor and beautiful and so colorful and swashbuckling. That isn't really probably what that

period of time looked like, but I'm not sure if that necessarily makes it any more valuable. And I found the film that have a very odd shape where it is extremely intense. and violent and savage in the first 30 minutes. And then it really downshifts for the next hour and 15 minutes. And it's very slow and methodical and very contemplative. And so it just kind of feels a little lumpin to me. I don't know. I was surprised.

I was hoping to love this because I think Sarnaski is super talented. But this one was not really for me. Yeah. To me, it's all the flaw is in the concept. Yeah. And then it just wasn't really pinned down what was happening here. because I agree with you, the opening 30 minutes, the filmmaking is very gnarly. And I was kind of pissed at you when I was watching it because I was like, oh, I don't really enjoy this.

Is this what it's going to be the whole time? Which is an achievement in its way that you're grossed out and freaked out by it. And then, you know, I like Jody Comer very much. Hugh Jackman is fine. Listen, I thought all the, the scenery was very beautiful, you know? Yeah, it's well shot. It looks nice. So it's not that it's bad.

Yeah, who did Sing Sing, Larker, really good cinematographer. It's just a real Y issue. I feel very similarly. And it's kind of interesting that Jackman, who as you know I love, he's really got two gears. One gear is I'm putting on a show. Yeah. And the consummate, you know, talks with tales,

handsome man of the stage, which he like kind of moves. around that persona in different ways from hosting the Oscars to the greatest showman to even movies like Australia where he's kind of like an adventuring smiling figure

to Wolverine and this and prisoners and the sort of like the anguished angry, violent kind of id of the male. And I just feel like a lot of what he's doing here he's just done before and done in better movies.

I mean, prisoners and Logan are just better movies. They're just more interesting movies. So I don't know. I was kind of like, why, man? Why'd you want this, Hugh? I don't know. Maybe he wanted to be Robin Hood. I guess it is appealing to.

Well, sure, but he thought he was, you know, he thought he was being, you know, the corrective Robin Hood. Yeah. Well, what do you think makes a good Robin Hood? Charisma. Uh-huh. Just being the myth. I mean, this is the other thing about the, this project, which is, to dismantle the idea of Robin Hood,

which is nobody wants the real Robin Hood. Or I don't anyway. You want just what's on the label, stealing from the rich, giving to the poor. You want the hot fox from Disney, which is how so many of us were introduced to it. But it's a concept. There's a reason that Robin Hood has become a shorthand for,

just like an against, you know, authority. view of the world and or like a trading platform that I do not endorse. That's right. I forgot about that. Yeah, but like it is, nobody really cares what's going on in the, in the. What is your trading platform of choice? In my trading platform, it's called the Real Real. Okay.

So. I'm still on eBay. Are you? How much time do you spend on eBay? Thanks for asking. About once every other day. Oh, but that's. what's on there.

But is it, yeah, it's only Blu-Rays because that is, that, that's your marketplace. Yeah, Blu-Rays and ancient artifacts, like the Tesseract. Okay. Just checking in to see if they have the Tessaract there. I do do some vintage shopping on eBay, and that's where the true heads go. But, you know, it's a, it's a person-to-person, like a vendor-to-consumer thing. So you can't do returns, you know? You can't, you have to be really sure as opposed to something like the real, real where...

This is also true of Robin Hood, the trading app, by the way. Just so you know, you can't really do returns. You'd be like, whoops, shouldn't have bought that. But you don't need to do a return on a Blu-ray usually. How often have you returned to Blu-ray? How often have you returned to Blu-ray? This happened. How often?

I mean, I buy a lot of Blu-Rae. Well, sure. One out of every 100? What is the situation? One out of every 1,000. You get one and it's not functioning. And so you say, send me another? I start crying immediately.

I start stamping my feet like a child. And then I can't drive because I'm so upset and I make my wife drive me to the post office. Okay. And then they fix it. Okay. You don't want to have an honest conversation with me about the real real right now. I don't. I don't.

Okay. But I want you to have as many conversations about it with yourself as you possibly can. I do. Don't worry. So, no, but Robin Hood, you want the figurehead. You don't want, you want just the person who embodies the idea. You don't want a real man. Well, I don't.

I don't care about his grandparents. I'm sorry. Forgive me for making this so movie nerdy, but I think Batman is an interesting thing to compare him to because filmmakers are famous for reinterpreting Batman, but there are certain things about Batman that you can't change. You can't change the iconography of the costume. You can tweak it, but you can't change.

You can't have a Batman who doesn't have the bat ears. If you do that, the audience and the movie studio is going to be like, this is not Batman. Right. You know, and so, like,

this Robin Hood doesn't wear the Robin Hood hat. Yeah. And with the, with the feather. And, you know, there's no, the bow and arrow is not used in quite the same way.

Like, so once you strip the character of some of those core things that give us that emotional association with the character, I don't know, it does lose something. Well, it's, you know,

it's non-licensed IP. It's, right? Well, it's in the public domain. Well, exactly. But so there is no one, controlling the use of the name, the image, whether or not it has the bat ears, how many things

you're allowed to sell? Is Batman going in the public domain soon? I think he is. Okay. And so what will you do? Make my own Batman film. Okay. Beautiful.

Yeah. It will be called Batman. Will it be done before or after Batman, too? The Batman too. It's a really good. What if I just made the Batman too? But I played Batman. Okay.

I'm playing Batman and the Joker. Sure. And Bain. Great. Well, no, Chris is playing Bain. Right, Chris is playing Bain. I'm playing Raazel Gould and also Talia Al Gould. Yeah.

And I'm playing Poison Ivy. Great. And Harley Quinn. Beautiful. I'm playing Clayface. Okay. Wow. You got the rights to that.

So is Clayface in the public domain, though? No, I believe so. Any of the rest of these characters. So that's tricky. It's going to be a while for some of those villains. Yeah. So you just have Batman too. I'm also playing Commissioner Gordon.

Okay. I'm playing Barbara Gordon, aka Batgirl. Okay. I didn't know that. that? His daughter? His daughter? Alessia Silverstone is his daughter? I don't know if that's canon in the Schumacher film. Okay. I can't remember. I can't even remember who plays Commissioner Gordon in the Schumacher film. I'm also playing the penguin. Again, what is, what's the legal status of these characters? You only have Batman. You know, you know I'm playing the Riddler.

I got a riddle. Who else am I playing? I'm trying to think of some other Batman characters and I can't remember any. So, one-man show coming to the end. That sounds good. That sounds great. I'd see it. Thank you. Thanks for your support. Batman.

I would like to see the death of Batman. Because, you know, they killed Batman, or they broke Batman's back, and Batman went away in the 90s when I was collecting comic books. Bain broke his bad. That inspired the film The Dark Night Rises. They killed James Bond. Yeah, spoiler alert. Well. What's that film called?

No Time to Die? Yes, which came out in 2022. And they're also going to bring him back to life, so it's fine. It's too bad. Robin Hood I don't know I haven't read all the texts Okay

Which texts have you read Well none of them I think Have you read the text? I mean I gave your son the book Yeah we did start it I thank you for thinking that he's At a middle school reading level Which he's not quite

Well no you are though I am So you can read to him I would I did We did actually start reading it And I wouldn't say that his attention held Got it for that one yet And there was also a lot of like

Spoketh You know, which... Yes. Some old English. He's not there yet. Well, I don't know if it's old English. Did you have to do Beowulf in Old English? I did.

So did we. I did you guys have to do that at school? I never did Beowulf. Lucas? I did not. Okay. Not at all. Not even in modern English.

Negative. Okay. Yeah. Well, we'll talk about education and how it's declined in the following segment. Wow, we certainly will. It sounds like the 1370s is when Robin Hood first kicked up. Okay. In the alliterative poem, Pierce Plowman, this is what I read.

Okay. And there was a quotation that later became a common proverb that many men speak of Robin Hood and never shot his bow. Okay. And then the earliest surviving text is 15th century, Robin Hood and the monk, which I assume is a reference to Friar Tuck or that's sort of where the friar tuck figure came from. Typically seen as a contemporary supporter of the late 12th century king, King Richard the Lionheart. You're a Lionheart gal, right? Yeah. going to be King John. What a herb.

He sucks. Yeah. Fuck him. So, Tales been told many times, you know, there's a lot of films. The films, there's not a lot of great ones. No. You know, I'd never seen the 1922 film until I looked at it yesterday. It's on Tooby. Okay. Directed by Alan Duane, one of the early pioneers of filmmaking. It stars Douglas Fairbanks, one of the great silent screen stars. It was pretty interesting. It was over two hours, silent film that features, I think, a lot of the, like,

it establishes these cinematic tropes of Robin Hood. So when you go back and if you look at the 1938 version, starring Errol Flynn, directed by Michael Curtiz, I think it's one of the last movies he makes before Casablanca, you can see that movie riffing on the 22 Robin Hood. You can see in the 73 animated Robin Hood that you were referencing the Disney classic, that movie is pulling from the Curtiz version.

If you look at Robin and Marion, which is a Richard Lester movie with Sean Connery that came out in 76, Sean Conner and Audrey Hepburn. That movie is kind of riffing on the Curtiz version as well. If you look at Robin Hood starring Patrick Bergen in 91 or Prince of Thieves, which also came out in 91 starring Kevin Costner, those movies are trying to kind of keep the framework, right? Green Jump Suit, Rob from the Rich, steal from the Rich, give to the poor, bow and arrow. Made Marion Battling the Sheriff Things are unsettled in the middle ages Yes, there's a lot of

The Saxons are feeling rebellious But they don't have a leader to inspire them This is the second time you said Saxons It's a huge thing in the adventures of Robin Yeah, I know, but I just like Like Arrowflin says the word Saxon like 300 times And you know, they deserve to be free In the face of Prince John

Prince John played magnificently by Claude Raines in that film, I must say. What a shit heel he was. And we just talked about Robin Hood Men and Tights. We did. The Mel Brooks film, which is clearly riffing on Prince of Thieves, among other things, including this ancient myth. And so I feel like this more or less 55-year history

between the Curtiz film and Robin Hood Men and Tites, this kind of forms for two or three movie-going generations our idea of what Robin Hood is. Not just what Robin Hood is on the page, but just generally what Robin Hood is. Right, the basic. Yeah. Our understanding. I think you're right to point out that the Disney film kind of codifies it at a very young age. And, you know, it's been 33 years since Men in Tights.

It's been 35 years since the Kevin Costner film, which famously features the worst accent in the history of movies. But it was like, was a huge hit and isn't entertaining enough blockbuster, though very flawed. And since then, we've had two major U.S. releases. One, Ridley Scott did his version of it. in 2010 where he tries to like it's almost like Avengersifying Robin Hood you know where like all the Avengers characters in the Avengers

movies like are not as bright and shiny they're all wearing like black leather Right And it is like a more stripped down more serious We're getting down to business Yeah yeah and like a bare enough like It's not all fun in games and playing What's the shuttlecock

In the Badminton? Badminton that's what they play in Robin Hood the little kids and then made Marion go back. Yeah. It's Robin Hood-Colon gladiator. That's the idea of that movie. And then in 2018, Taryn Edgerton played Robin Hood in another adaptation, which I thought was very unsuccessful. And there have been a lot of other, you know, many countries around the world have done their adaptations of these movies. But I would argue this is actually not a very impressive history relative to Shakespearean adaptation, for example.

or what's another story like this that you think of that feels in the same vein of like a longtime folk tale that we've seen a lot of different iterations of. Well, until you said a lot of different iterations of, which we have in its own way, but I've been thinking a lot about the Odyssey. Because I'm trying my best.

I don't know if I'm going to get through the whole text of the Odyssey. I'm reading the Emily Wilson translation before the Christopher Nolan adaptation. And also it has a great, introduction, which is just kind of like putting me through the paces of college again. And there's a lot about how this is a, this was a common, like an oral tradition, as we know, that was eventually written down in one way by, you know, there are lots of authorship questions. Homer, quote, unquote, but was it many people, was it pulled together different excerpts? Was it one person

who speaks and another person who writes? Anyway. Was it Time magazine's Joe Klein? Yeah, it was. It's good. That was a good one. I liked it. So, but anyway, like a story, a framework of a story that has been handed down for years and years and years and years and then reinterpreted, put in different situations. In the case of the Odyssey, you know, just like a man trying to get home becomes the backbone of many, many different types of stories. And in that case, you know, you know, know, until we see Christopher Nolan's The Odyssey, which is, seems to be, like, incredibly faithful and is set in the time and is using the same names as the characters. It's not an inspiration. It is they are just making the Odyssey. Yes. Feels like a proper adaptation. Yeah. Which is kind of what has the Robin Hood strategy has been. And I think that's a challenge. And I think if you're not someone at Christopher Nolan or, you know, Michael Curtis's level, then you run into trouble and using mythology as inspiration rather than literal text tends to work better with

stories of this kind. I mean, Shakespeare is the same way where there have been a lot of very bad literal adaptations of Shakespeare and then, you know, many great, oh, it's, you know, the taming of the shrew, but actually, you know, in a 90s workplace or whatever. Right, right, yeah. Like, oh. Right. That was bad.

Yeah, that was not good, but I remember that. Yeah, there are a lot of versions of this. I'm forgetting the ones that were at the tip of my tongue, but a lot of the Hans Christian Anderson stories are like this where you see these reimagining. Disney has done this for years and years of taking these kind of like sacred and ancient stories and filing them down. I mean, horror does this all the time.

This is Dracula. This is Frankenstein. Right. They become these foundational ideas that you can iterate upon, but if you stray too far from what makes us feel safe about the concept, right. You feel like a little, like you violated something? Right.

Well, I mean, it's how much are you using it as story guidance or inspiration and how much are using it as IP, right? Because as soon as you, and all of these are, they're trying to use free IP. And Robin Hood is in the title. And so when you hear Robin Hood or you hear Batman or you hear Dracula, you know, you expect to see certain. things. But then that sets in a whole level of expectations that you have to execute against and it gets trickier. Spotify, it's Jay Shetty. Are you one of those media strategy people

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This one, this one is tough. Robin Hood, I don't, I feel like it's maybe just dead. You know, I think sometimes maybe it can come back in some way. Well, I think he is dead, according to the latest text, the death of Robin Hood. You think everyone will now, like, acknowledge his death. Yeah. He'll stay dead. You don't think they'll revive him, like Tony Stark.

Is Tony Stark going to get revived, do you think? I don't know. People were screaming too loud for me to really catch on to the granular details of what we saw at CinemaCon. They still haven't released that trailer. Okay. What do you think is going on there for Avengers Doomsday? Your guess is as good as mine I don't understand why it's going up

Against Dune 3 I don't understand the Infinity Vision I don't know what's going on I'm confused And I was not impressed by the presentation Okay thanks for weighing in Speaking of Disney Toy Story 5

Yeah This should be an interesting conversation Directed by Andrew Stanton It is co-written by Stanton and Kenna Harris This is Stan has been involved as I understand in every single toy story film to one extent or another. He also famously worked on Finding Nemo and Wally

and is one of the icons of Pixar history. Whole Gang is back for this movie, including Tom Hanks as Woody, Tim Allen is Buzz Lightyear, Joan Cusack's back as Jesse. It's sort of Jesse's movie, this film. Some new additions to the cast, including Greta Lee, who plays Lily or Lily Pad,

a device. Conan O'Brien, a smarty pants, which is a was a real toy the sort of like toilet paper roll toy as I recall I think it's inspired

by a real toy Craig Robinson is Atlas and Shelby Rabara is snappy these are three new toys that are introduced

in another home that we visit here's the story after Woody left Bonnie to stay with Bo Peep and help abandon toys find owners

this is at the end of Toy Story 4 Jesse becomes the leader of Bonnie's room with Buzz Light Year as her second in command a now eight-year-old Bonnie has become enamored with her new favorite plaything, a frog-like tablet named LilyPad, causing a crisis among traditional toys and prompting Buzz to call on Woody to return.

What did you think of Toy Story 5? You want me to go first? You always go first. So, well, would you like to go first? I'll go first. I thought this movie was beautiful. I loved it so much. I had the best time at this movie.

That's nice. Do I think it has flaws? Sure. I don't give a fuck about the flaws. I was so happy to be back with my friends, and I was so happy to watch my daughter watch this movie. And I thought this was a fascinating movie about female friendship. And I'm not afraid to say it. I agree with that.

Okay. Here's what I say. For children, I think that this is a great and important movie with lessons about friendship and creativity and technology. And I also think, you know, the voice performances. the characterization, there are several kind of dream or imagination sequences in this movie. They're wonderful. Love. Like it is funny and creative and the Toy Story universe is A-plus.

As a parent who saw this by herself at 2 p.m. And as a thinking adult, there is some nonsensical and also some deeply craven stuff in the construction of the morals of this movie that I think will go over kids' heads and doesn't matter. but that I alone watching was a little irked by. It's probably a good thing that you and I viewed this in different ways. I saw this with Eileen and Alice. I mean, and I, of course, love the Toy Story franchise. I have grown up on the Toy Story franchise.

We were 12 years old when the first film came out. You know, I had a very fond place in my heart for this. In some ways, this is not a typical Toy Story movie because Woody and Buzz are to some extent more sidelined than they are in other films. It's kind of, it's sort of evolving past them in some ways. They're still important to the third act of the movie and being a part of the big save that always happens in one of these films. But like I said, this is really Jesse's movie. It's really not to put too fine a point on it, but it's really a movie about girls.

Yeah. And even though Bonnie was in the last film, I wouldn't say that this is a movie franchise that has focused on the story of girls as much. It started with Andy. A lot of the heroes are male. even some of the female figures that are introduced into it, like Bo Peep or Mrs. Potato Head, like never really had a center on that. And so for me to see it,

and for me to also be in a period in my life where my daughter is figuring out how to make friends. Yeah. And kind of like what that means to make friends and what are going to be established in long-running friendships and what are friendships that are more transient? And if you're a little bit eccentric, how do some people receive your eccentricity socially,

which is something I think even adults still think about as someone who is just a large gathering, with our families yesterday. And I was like, which of these parents want to talk to me? And who do I want to talk to? I found the movie to be, like, really warm and really thoughtful and considerate about all those things. I think I'll probably agree with a lot of the notes that you have about some of the plot

complications and confusions and, like, the sort of, like, corner cutting. I think there's some corner cutting in the movie to get the story rolling in certain places, but, and I'm also really glad that you circled that those moments of sort of imagination that the movie, which they've done versions of this before, but it does it really well in this movie, which is when kids are playing with toys, when Bonnie is playing with her toys, and we see her vision of what's happening in the world of her mind with these characters, and it's much more elevated and gorgeous than it has a different animation style. That stuff to me is like top shelf animated movie storytelling. I loved two major sequences that did.

that. So yeah, I had a really, really great time with the movie. I really liked it. But I want to hear some of your mom alone viewing. Well, let's talk about the female friendship and the way it uses the Bonnie character, and then there's a new character, Blaze. And they're positioned against kind of all the other kids in the universe who both are glued to their screens like, you know, the people in, you know, I thought of Wally, but

there's also some ready player one to it. Definitely. And then they're all real assholes. Yeah. I think the insinuation there is if you're locked into your screen. Right. And and there's also a little bit of insinuation of that like because they are the screen and the social media, the

lily pad in this case is what is organizing their communication and their relationship that that method of or that vessel of friendship kind of sullies it and brings out the worse in people, which I think is very true. Yeah. But I do think you're speaking of shortcuts that there is sort of the bad tech equals bad people. Simplification is just a little lazy. Right. And these girls haven't found the real real yet.

So they don't know. They don't know the wonders that can be discovered. have been mean girls since the beginning of times. True. And they organize impacts and they prey upon the, you know, the more creative or just the people who don't conform. And in this case, she's not conforming to technology. But it almost like simplifies what I think is a complex thing between young people where they're just, and girls in particular are really mean. Yeah.

And they pick out the people who are quote unquote different. No, I know. So the backbone of the story is that this young girl, Bonnie, has some struggles making friends. There's a very poignant moment early in the film where she is playing with her dolls and a group of neighbor kids see her. Yeah. And they see her playing with these analog toys. And she has a moment where she tries to engage them with one of the toys and they laugh at her. Yeah. And that sends her into kind of an emotional tailspin about, well, I don't have friends. And she learns that, you know, some of her. other friends from dance class, I'll have these screens. And so her parents get her a screen. She doesn't learn that. Her parents respond to this. She goes in to her parents and she says, like, why don't I have any friends? And they like good engaged parents, you know, freak out.

Gereford hugs. You're so special, et cetera. And then immediately panic by an iPad. This is called a lily pad in this context. Which, who can blame them? It's 1,000 percent relatable. It is. I know. I know. I want to have a screen time conversation with you eventually. Maybe let's wait until we get through the movie. So this iPad is a portal to community and then negativity, which is frankly what a lot of screens are in general for us as well, for adults as well. And she connects with these girls from her dance class and she's invited over for a sleepover. But it becomes very clear early on that one, these kids are only engaged in what's happening on their screens, even when they're together. they're in person. And two, that there is a kind of like competitiveness to the experience where, one, they're always playing games. And two, if you're not speaking on their level about living inside of this world, that you're going to feel alienated.

And Bonnie is the least experienced in this space and quickly becomes alienated. And she's trapped between this feeling of wanting to play with her toys and wanting to have friends and be on her lily pad. You know, because it's a toy story movie, the lily pad, of course, has a mind of its own and is its own character. I thought Greta Lee's performance was very good and very, very, very funny. And, you know, it's written very well. The clip of, you know, Jesse saying, you were even listening and the lily pad saying, I'm always listening and then playing it and translating it into Spanish. It's very funny. You know, this movie understands all of its subjects very well. And in trying to simplify it for kids,

I do think just kind of skips over some things or over oversimplifies. It does. I, the, looming specter, the sort of Hal 9,000 quality of lily pad is very, very funny in the movie and effective. It is a very powerful device, though, in the film. That's one thing is that it's capable of doing a lot of things that I would imagine, were I to give my child an iPad, which is not something that I have done yet. It would certainly not be connected to the internet, at least not at first. Right. So, I mean, there's just, the concept of parental controls or parental settings does not exist. It doesn't come up. In this universe. And the kids are just doing whatever they want. And then the toys are also doing whatever they want because at some point, the toys in an effort to help Bonnie make friends and to, you know, write wrongs and, you know, connect people who should be friends in real life.

The toys jailbreak the lily pad and various other devices and invite parents to random addresses. And there's just, and there's a level of scam and internet like not, what's the opposite? And at danger that is completely unexamined and unbelievable in this movie? I can't argue at that point. There's definitely some stuff where you're like I wouldn't go to that person's house

if I got a message on my daughter's iPad that I should come to that house. That's not enough to go on a long drive to a stranger's home on a horse ranch. Now I will say, one of the things I really like about the movie is that the iPad, the lily pad character is contrasted

with another young girl, this Blaze character that you're talking about, who is a horse girl who's living on a ranch and who is really in the real world. She is really like, she is still a kid who plays with her toys. She's a little older than Bonnie,

maybe a year or so older than Bonnie. And she, they're, they're kindred spirits. They're like-minded. They don't know each other. They haven't met. But we're meant to see this connection. And Blaze is like also

kind of longing for connection and friendship, but also feels like maybe a little more confidence in liking the things that she likes. She has this huge collection of, horse dolls. Right. And she kind of like, she identifies as a person that is comfortable in this world. And she somehow comes upon ownership of Jesse and Bullseye.

So Blaze lives at Jesse's first kid's old home, which we see in flashback. Yes. And Jesse has Blaze's address, the address of her first kids home, the horse ranch, written on the inside of her boot. so she is returned by some really old people along with the horse, forgive me, I've forgotten the horse's name. Bullseye. Bullseye, along with bullsie

to the original ranch, which is where Blaze lives in because Blaze also, you know, understands the power of childhood, immediately takes these friends in, plays with them, makes these toys her own. She's not above toys like the other mean girls.

Blaze also does get dumped unceremoniously via lily pad by a friend who's just like, lull, I'm not coming over. And that's all you get. Again, some of the characterization here. That's me canceling plans. Sorry, I can't come. Loll, ha-ha.

I mean, it is true. But so then Blaze and Bonnie are connected via the toys and the internet by their love of playing? Yes. Their sense of wonder? One of my favorite revelations in the movie is when Woody and Buzz, Woody eventually returns home. Sure. He's called back by Buzz because they need to team up, the old gang.

And when they realize that the Siri-like apparatus within LilyPad in which LilyPad has to do everything that they ask it, if it uses direct address, is extremely funny. But using that tool that allows them to connect Bonnie and Blaze and allows for a friendship, allows for the potential of a friendship at least. I don't know. I thought the movie was really, really sensitive and thoughtful about this. Now, a couple things about this. One, you know, my daughter's about to be five. Yours turned four this year. Your oldest. We haven't gotten to this point that these characters are in.

So our relationship even with what we let our kids do with screens or even kind of what the nature of friendship. And I'm obviously very attuned now to female friendship. and my daughter has this really like expanding world of friends. And every day I hear about a new person. And I can't tell if this person is my daughter's favorite person on earth or somebody she started talking to yesterday. Right. But I feel like a real sensitivity towards it.

My wife feels a real sensitivity towards it too. And you just want your kid to be happy. You just want your kid to feel accepted and connected. And I think this is, I've not seen a lot of movies that do this this well, that like, that really allow Bonnie to be sad in the way that she's sad. that let you sit inside of Blaze's sadness when that friend breaks a plan. And so,

this is kind of like Disclosure Day for me where I'm like, I'm willing to overlook some of the jankiness of the plotting because I felt very moved by what the movie really has on its mind. And in an effort to get there, it kind of has to be allied some natural logic. But I'm also very open to the criticism as well.

Did Alice respond to it? Did she understand like why those girls were being mean and Not really because she doesn't have a screen So I think she didn't really like see that that can like But she didn't But the basic mean girl stuff Oh no she knows about that

Yeah well sure yeah they all do But like did she Did she understand that those were the mean girls And that it's more like did that connect with her? I think she was touched by seeing Bonnie and Blaze Eventually find a way to make a connection You know I think the film's final 30 minutes As with all of these toy story movies

You know whether it is a manipulative manipulative formula or a hard-earned slice of imaginative storytelling. You can say it's both the Pixar brand at this point. But there's a moment where Jesse has a realization when she discovers something about the impact. I thought that was silly. Oh, my God. You were crying? Balling.

I was so moved by that. I love that. I know I won't spoil it for listeners. I thought it was pretty unearned. Oh, my God. Just because it was another character. It's, you know. I know.

But the whole point of these movies is like these toys are having existential crises about their value in the world because the kids discard them. Right. So that's like something we've seen happen to Woody. It's something we've seen happen to Buzz over the years. I think giving Jesse her chance to also be a character who has this existential doubt about her value of being like passed down and discarded over time. So I really liked that. And then I think Alice got it. I think she understood. I mean, I think it's a little bit less psychological at four and five around like. Like, am I valued, am I accepted? What do I like and what are my friends like? Yeah. We have been talking with her a little bit about that recently, about sort of like, what are the kinds of people that you're interested in and drawn to? And why do you like them? And that's like a very new concept for all of us.

But I thought the movie was pretty sophisticated about that. But we also, Alice doesn't have an iPad. In fact, I don't know if she's ever held an iPad other than on a plane. she's not allowed to watch TV during the week. We're pretty stringent. Now, we may not be stringent like any year. It was definitely a holdover of like, don't let your kids watch TV until they're three.

And like we've kind of tried to follow some of those guidelines. I'm not saying we're right or wrong. Everybody's point of view on this is different. We also only have one kid. I think when you have two kids or five kids or whatever, it's like it's a lot harder to manage these things. So I try to be not judgmental about this at all. But.

And also the most of the most of the most of the most, movie is also conflating a lot of screen things. It's not just that like there is a screen. It's not an iPad. It's not, you know, there's social media. There's the internet aspect of it. There's a lot of gaming. There's a lot of, we don't actually see her watching a TV show or a movie. It's true. It's true. The irony while watching a movie. Yeah. So it's not just that it's like a literal technological screen. It's what's happening on it. And it. to me was geared much more towards social media, like, and interactive behaviors. And like life lived on a screen.

Totally. As opposed to entertainment. Which, you know, I heard Andy Greenwald talking about this with his daughters on the watch recently because they went to go see the last digital circus. Right. Because his younger daughter is really interested in that YouTube series. And his older daughter was not interested in it. But like, that's the thing where you reach a certain age and you are allowed access

to a device. Right. And it can kind of change your world. I mean, it can change how you want to spend all your time. And I think it's persuasive. I think it's the plotting is a little rickety of the story, but I think the idea is on point, which is if you let kids into this world, it can take over and it can make you a little meaner.

It can make you a little bit more callous. 1,000%. I think the overall message and moral. And also, just the basic idea that the more a child, the more time a child spins on these like programs and end these types of screen life that are as absorbing that are meant to take you away from the actual world, that you lose the ability to connect in the real world. And whether it's playing with toys or talking to someone or like having a sense of imagination, you know, the animation

style of Bonnie's eyes when she's looking at the screen is very smart and perceptive and communicates the way your brain and just like sense of focus adjusts with these programs or the games or whatever. So I think it's 100% right. It is like, again, it's oversimplified

and I think that it's not really, you know, it's not all or nothing for anyone. And they do. There are many shots where toys are beholding the entire neighborhood. And every window is lit up with a child staring at its screen all the time. And listen, like, kids are looking at screens. I left the house this morning and my two sons and husband were watching the U.S. Open because our nanny is sick and he has one arm and like, what's life? So if you looked inside through our window, it would also be lit up the same way. Yeah. I do feel like there is people.

may disagree with me, but I do feel like there is a delineation between watching television and watching a screen. Because that, even though they're watching, that's still a communal event. And the individualization of staring at a screen, I do see it as different. Maybe it's a thin difference. Maybe it's not all that meaningful. But watching sports with people is social. I mean, I agree. I also think there's a major difference between watching movies and watching television, which, you know, she, the person who doesn't know how to watch television would say, but there's something about like the episodic watch, especially in the movie. in the streaming area and we know that everything is engineered.

Yeah, more, more, more. Okay, here's another one. Watch another one. Watch another one. That's training to your brain a different way as opposed to sitting down and watching a story. So the movie doesn't get into all of that. Does it need to for a seven-year-old to understand that, you know, it's probably better to go outside and play with your toys or your friends than stare at a screen all the time?

No. So it doesn't matter. I had some, I had some issues with the second and third act and the resolution. the way it incorporate, the way the film tries to have it both ways. Mm-hmm. Say more. It specifically introduces three kind of mid-tier devices. The Conan toy is, it's a toilet paper toy.

It's a battery-operated potty training toy. Did you use one of these? I did not. We did not either. But it will be familiar to any parent or aunt or uncle or anyone of the, just a very loud toy that won't shut up. Yeah. We've got a vacuum that I just, I don't know how you turn it off. We don't have very many of those in our house.

I mean, we have so many trucks and, you know, we've got a tractor. We've got a recycling truck. We have a Barbie plane. Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, and my sons go to your house and immediately turn on the Barbie plane. We have, and there are some toys that don't turn on. And Cy, who's not even two, we'll bring it over and hand it to you and just say on, on, on, because he wants it to make noise like all the other toys. Yeah. So, you know, but that's already, that's an example of that is a tiny child who doesn't have a full vocabulary, but understands that there are some toys that have lights and sound and they're more interesting to him than the other toys.

Yes. Then there's a kid's digital camera. This is something, by the way, that really started around our use where this kind of digitized toy was really first starting to hit. Right. And it's obviously become now more derrador. Right. And so there's a kid's digital camera. which is a thing. Snappy. Yes.

Snappy. And then what is the third one? It's an Atlas. Oh, sure. And is it a hippos mouth? I think it's a hippos mouth that operates as an Atlas and can tell you like locations. Well, that's creepy from a basic GPS location situation, which, you know, it's sort of bringing in internet, stranger, stranger, like a little bit. And these devices are all also communicating with lily pad.

There is like, there's some step skipping going on. in terms of how these devices would be connected? Well, you know, the fact that the toilet training paper, like toilet paper roll can communicate with lily pad makes no sense and is also an indictment of like, you know, the smart app home systems that we have. I don't need my air conditioner to talk to the internet. You know, I just don't. I know you have it and I disabled mine. No, thank you. But it's really more of a, just all of the climate stuff in our home.

home is all connected? The house came that way. I don't know. I didn't install that. But, you know, it's like the dishwasher is now also. Yeah. Like our washer dryer, we got a new one a few years ago and you could hook it up to the internet. Why would I need to do that? But also, presumably with my children and their toys with the right tools could hook it up to lily pad and then invite strangers over to our house to communicate with toys, which is a real thing that happens on examined. Anyway. So these devices, are lying forgotten in a hall drawer and they haven't been charged in a while, which is very apt and funny. And they get reanimated by Jesse in order to try. She charges them. She charges them because she wants them to help her get home. And so then they become invested in this goal of reuniting Blaze and Bonnie and helping them become fine friendship. And so it's like, oh, actually the smart toys can be used for good.

And then LilyPad has like a real sudden out of nowhere. Existential nightmare. Right. And just shuts herself down and tries to give herself away. I thought this was pure sci-fi. I enjoyed it. You know, it's like when the AI becomes conscious and realizes that it too is fallible and it kind of melts.

That is kind of in 2001. We talked about this was Spielberg. No, I know. But like we all know that that's not actually what that's. No. Well, also, toys are not real, Amanda. So this is a film. But this is a movie made by an animation company that was founded by a tech company that is engineering all the plots so that the toys and the devices can team up together and act for good in support of this child.

And so the devices help. And this leads to the final, spoiler alert. I knew you were not going to enjoy this part. Yeah. Okay. First of all, there are like 45 buzz light years. There's like a, and that creeped me out. Just there were a lot of them.

Series of Buzz Light Years clearly in a shipping container crash land somewhere. They all come online. Sure. And they all need to find Star Command. Yeah. And so they team up together and they travel and they find the mainland. They find themselves entrenched in this Bonnie Blaze union effort. But just a lot of Buzz Light Years, all it wants is pretty creepy to me.

I think it's on purpose. Yeah. So good job. And then they get Lily Pad back. Everybody's syncing up, charging, sharing data, locations. You know, it's a free communication universe. And the final thing they have to do in order to get Bonnie and Blaze together is that they got to scan a QR code so that Buzz can get an app update, an iOS update. Yeah.

And that is when I almost walked out of the theater. Okay. Because I just, hinging all of this around an iOS update, a software update being essential to our human life, is both existentially depressing and also the most ridiculous propaganda from these fucking companies that just need to make us update less. Like, I can't. I can't be updating all the time. Fucking figure it out.

Get stuff right at the beginning. so I don't have to update every five minutes. You sloppy idiots. The end. So what I'm hearing here is you don't like updates. I hate updates. I don't understand. Why is this controversial?

Why are updates controversial? Why do we have to do it every five minutes? Sonos is asking me to update every single day. Spotify shuts down my laptop once a week to give engineering updates that I don't need. What I need is an internet connection and my mind, okay? We got to get you a Knicks championship in your life. You got to let go of this.

This doesn't drive you absolutely. How often are you updating all of your apps? As soon as they pop up. Are you're opening app store every day and being like, sure, update? I think I have everything set on auto update. You're letting them control your phone? Yeah, sure. They're controlling everything already.

Why? This is, I mean, this is cookies all over. What do you think you're in? You think you're in charge of anything? Sure. Surely you just. Why are you letting them get into your phone and update everything? You're buying clothes on the internet every day.

They have everything they'll ever need. They have your face. They have your sizing. They have your credit card. They have your ID numbers. Yeah. You put your social security number in when you're flying on a plane. It's over.

You lost. Do the airlines have my social security number? Certain that they do. I don't. I mean, I'm sure that they do. but not because of me. Yeah. You know who has all of your personal and private information?

Donald Trump. I know. But still. What are we fighting on here? Updates from the Buzz Lightier app? It's obviously, it's not an idea. It's not, I know they have everything. That's fine.

And I know that AI is trained on us and I hit it. The CIA is listening to this episode. I know. And I wish them not very well. I think you guys should reconsider some things. To overthrow a nation right now. We are accepting their checks. No, we're not.

So here's my thing is that I just, it's so frequent. It's so annoying. I really just need them to handle their business. This is part of my like, I don't like process. I don't like, why don't you figure it out and get it right? And then you can ask for my time and attention. That's what I have to say. And so because of that, Buzz Light, you're developing the ability to fly.

Yeah. Due to an app update. Made you want to leave the theater. It's the justification of it is centering your entire movie around the justification of fucking updates every five minutes. Also, you know what? I'm not sure if I saw it that way, but I understand what you're saying. Also, this is a movie about playing with toys. So shouldn't the children be helping him fly?

Perhaps. There you go. Perhaps. I think we do eventually get there in the story. I do we think we eventually see that the purpose of toys is to be a portal to imagination is to be able to... It's true.

You know, access a part of your mind and a part of your true self. Listen, I was a toy kid. It will come as no surprise. I love toys. I try to give my daughter toys. Top five toys. Jesus fucking Christ.

Well, well, it's just like what speaks to you? And did you have like a special... I mean, I had a Batmobile. That was awesome. Yeah, of course. That was truly awesome. Here's what I collected. He-Man.

Okay. Star Wars. Yeah. Figures from Kenner. G.I. Joe, of course. Teenage Mutin Ninja Turtles. Mm-hmm. I had WWF wrestlers.

Okay. Posable wrestlers. That's probably my core. Okay. And did you have one special? I was a He-Man kid. I was a human kid. I know, but like, did you have, I mean, like, not even like a lovey.

I didn't have like a stuffed animal or I didn't know. I didn't have that. I didn't have my one thing that I needed. No, did you? No, of course not. Yeah, my wife still has her teddy bear that she grew up with. And Knox has sort of like a blanket that is his thing. He's, he's linus coated.

But, but Sai has Leo, you know? And like I had to import more. I think this part of why this franchise is so good. I get it. I get it. This is an actual thing that as now that we are child rearers, like we know that this is something, this is a rite of passage. You develop a relationship with a physical object, and that thing gives you a sense of peace,

grace, creativity. You know, this franchise has also always been a little bit of trying to have it both ways, where on the one hand, you've got Woody and Buzz, these created characters who are not based on anything real. But then you also, like, Barbie has appeared in this franchise. You know, Mr. Potato Head is a real toy. There are real toy, Etch-A-Sketch, for example. was a real toy that was part of this franchise.

So it has always been trying to walk the line between the kind of branded content component of toy purchase and then also these original characters that they now own and can sell you over and over again. Right, who have become branded. Yes. I really liked it. Sounds like you're a little bit more mixed. I understand your notes are fair. I also, I don't know that I'm going to take my son to see it.

Oh. Sheesh. Really just from a time perspective You can't tell me that you think this is better than minions and monsters I guess it is But I had way more fun At minions and monsters That's like

That's like the two genders of movie taste right there It's my type of comedy I mean I thought this was like charming and insightful Toy 35 is not that funny It's not very very emotional And It's not very funny you're right You know, do I prefer movie references to tech references?

Yes, I do. That's just one woman's opinion. Okay. Well, we'll come back to Minutes and Monsters when it's released. Before we talk about the Toy Story franchise. Yeah. Coco, which is almost 10 years ago. Inside Out 2, Toy Story 4 and Incredibles 2 are the billion-dollar movies from the last 10 years.

This movie is clearly going to be a billion-dollar movie. It does feel like my sense of things right now is that Pixar is kind of where Marvel was like five or six years ago. You know, where it was like the big brands are still very big and will continue to be big. And if Marvel put out a Captain America movie starring Chris Evans, it would make 800. million dollars. Right. But if they try to tweak it or change it or launch something new, there are much, they're much bigger challenges. Fantastic Four, Thunderbolts, Shang Chi, Black Widow, those movies are not as big as what Avengers Doomsday is going to be. Does that make sense? Or Guardians 3 is an example. Well, it's, you know, they have their established IP now. And they did,

they did manage to create real IP themselves. A bunch of things. I mean, they've got a bunch of them they can go back to it. But we're in the threes and fours and Toy Story Fives now. for it and that is what makes money just as it does you know it's superhero movies really anywhere else at the box office It's true There's not a lot of great movies that are the fifth installment of a franchise

I've always intended to do an episode The best fours, fives, and sixes Okay I was just having a conversation yesterday with somebody about the Friday of the 13th franchise Got it And how I think four, four, five and six And that franchise is quite good That's very uncommon.

If you're rebooting a franchise? I don't think that counts. That counts. I think it's more like just the linear execution. Yeah. I think just the linear execution of a franchise. Fast five. Well, that was cited actually when we were talking.

The Fast Five would be one of the, you know, I'm not as big on the Fast Five as you, but I acknowledge that it is like the best in that franchise and that's unusual for that to happen. It would just be a good episode one day, I think. Yeah. But this is pretty good. And then Gato, which has a teaser now, is coming in the spring. And that's an original. That's more like Hoppers.

And then Incredibles 3 is the film that follows that in 2028, which is not directed by Brad Bird. It's directed by Peter Sone, who directed Elemental and The Good Dinosaur. Brad Bird's new movie is coming from Netflix later this year, which is called Ray Gunn, which I believe is a film he started developing at Pixar. And it's like his, it's an animated noir film. It's like a detective movie. Okay. That is supposed to be terrific.

It was like one of the, consider one of the best unmade scripts in Hollywood for a really long time. But he's not directing Incredibles 3, which is quite fascinating. Yeah. So yeah, Pixar, I don't know. If they can make hoppers and Gato, if they keep making those, if they don't stop.

And also if they can reach like a middle tier of success. Yeah. Right? Yeah. I think you'd probably want to be more like $500, $600 million for movies like that. But hoppers did pretty good. And it's like we do have a hoppers. Beaver. Beaver. Thank you. Sorry. I was walrus hedgehog. I was doing a lot of tea things.

Yeah. Beaver in our home that I think that my mom brought that I don't know if she knew that it was hoppers related. It was just cute. So in terms of toys and franchiseability, but I don't really know whether you're going to get a hoppers too. Yeah. The thing I was thinking about related to this is we were at Disney in the spring, Disneyland, I should say. And we went on Radiator Springs for the first time, the Cars ride. Oh, okay. And great ride. And, you know, there's a whole Cars land there.

Like, they have developed out an entire area of the theme park that is dedicated to Cars. And Cars is one of the most successful franchises that they have. Will there ever be a Hoppersland? You know, will there ever be even a Coco land? Like, that's the thing that is related to all this is because synergizing. Right, but they're not starting new universes, new IP. Yeah. They don't have it yet.

Yeah. I don't know. Maybe they will. We'll see. Maybe Gato will be the start of massive catland, but probably not. Oh, God. Box office for this movie? Yeah.

Looks like it's going to do pretty darn good. It's $17.5 million in previews as we're recording on Friday morning. I saw it yesterday and was with a bunch of families. Big crowd. Yeah. Yeah. it looks like it may make as much as $180 million this weekend, which makes it on track for being one of the biggest movies of the year.

Yeah. Well, Disney needs the money, as we know, so. They're going to be okay. I think they're going to be just fine. I feel like Oscars, it's in play. Sure. You know? They like the Toy Story franchise.

I mean, the performances are great. The animation itself is great. I'm open to it. Best picture? If you want. I mean, you and I were doing our lists the other day, and it's a, it's an interesting year. Funky year. Yeah.

But we always, we always say that in June. We do. We do. Because it's always lopsided. And there are always a couple things that we don't see coming. And there are also always a couple things that we've already seen that we don't expect to go as far as it did. You're absolutely right. I mean, is this your F1?

You want to do it right now? Nope. Okay. I don't think it is. Okay. I don't know what, I don't know what this year's F1 is. Yeah. Well, you didn't know what it was last year either.

Yeah. Okay, the Toy Story movie rankings. Tricky one here. Yeah. One of the complicated components of this is many people who love this franchise love Toy Story 2. Toy Story 2 has never been one of my number ones. Yeah.

So. Your number ones are one and three. One and three, I think are the best. Okay. And then you're very moved by five, but five. Can I give you my gut ranking? right now. Yeah.

Because that's what we'll go with. I'm just going to, I'm going to be a sidekick and a sounding board. Okay. That's kind of you. But I want your input. I seek your input. I would go Toy Story, Toy Story 3.

So you're going from 1 to 5 right now? Yes, from 1 to 5. Toy Story from 1995, the original. Toy Story 3 at number 2, which is a masterpiece. Yeah. I think it's Toy Story 2 here, followed by Toy Story 5. followed by Toy Story 4. Now, I was very high on Toy Story 4 when I saw it.

I think it is among the more controversial. Okay. It's not one that people love. I don't know what the vibe is going to be on Toy Story 5. I know, like, I cherish what Griffin Newman thinks of the Toy Story franchise. This is his favorite franchise. And I know he liked this movie. Yeah.

Which makes me think that the diehards will get and be on board with 5. And even just seeing Duke Kaboom for like one minute, which is the Keanu Reeves Motor cycle character in this movie, I was like, oh, yeah, four's cool. Maybe not as memorable as I thought it was going to be. Obviously, forky is an icon. We didn't really get enough forky and knifie in this movie, in my opinion, in the new one. They had a couple good one-liners. They did.

I thought they might be a bigger part of this. Well, I mean, this is the thing that pretty much everyone but Jesse and Lily Pat are sidelines. You're right. Even Buzz and Woody, really Woody, who's just kind of out on the road saving people. jokes at his expense? I mean, those are funny. Somebody needs a brown marker. And, you know, listen, it's hard for all of us.

Well, it had me thinking about how many people who had voiced characters from the 99, 95 film had passed away. You know, Don Rickles, Jim Varney, Doris Roberts. Like, is John Ratsenberger still with us? I don't know. Wallace Sean is still alive mercifully to voice Rex. But, you know, a lot, that's 31 years ago when this movie came out, which is so crazy. But my instinct is to say Toy Story, Toy Story 3, Toy Story 2, Toy Story 5, Toy Story 4. If it was your personal ranking, would you flip 5 and 2?

I got to rewatch 2. Okay. The last time we did this, I was really, I was yelled at by the masses. Okay. About my misunderstanding of 2. And I'm open to that. And now you didn't, but you didn't revisit it as a result of that. And, you know, a huge part of it, this is all very personal.

I was still young enough to watch Toy Story when it came out, even though I was 12, and really get invested in it and love it and be blown away by the animation style which was so different and new. In 99, I was watching The Matrix. Right. I was just in a different place of my life. Okay.

You know, I was just, I was very interested in a certain kind of movie and it wasn't Toy Story 2. So I'm sure I saw it that year, but it didn't quite make the emotional connection. Whereas if you were seven when you saw a Toy Story 2. You were more of a mean girl on the lily pad than a Bonnie at that point?

No, I wasn't trying to take anything away from. You still play with toys? No, I'm not that kind of person. I want people to be happy, unless it's you. I forgot there's one other thing we didn't mention. Yeah. Taylor Swift.

Oh, yeah. I left the theater. You didn't stay for the song. No. I had to go. We had the pot lock. Listen, I have a life. I'm a parent to kids.

And also, it's tacked on, you know? The song is tacked on. Can I be honest? I thought it was good. Great. You're really soft. Well, it's not about my moral opposition to Taylor Swift. It's about art.

Is that what it is? Art is good, and it's obviously, I think it's a collaboration with Randy Newman, who is, of course, an icon to me. And we're in a month, we're in a month in which both John Williams and Randy Newman have new musical scores. This is still happening. Yeah. These men. Now, if it were politics, I would say, get out of office. But if they're in the room conducting musicians, I say stay forever.

It's the year of Sean, and you accept. That's just wonderful to see. Yeah, Taylor Swift, yeah, sure. The other day, there was a terrible playlist in our office that featured her song from Cats. Oh, sure. Do you remember this? I do, yeah. Not my favorite of her songs.

No, it's atrocious. The Toy Story 5 song is called I knew it. I knew you. Okay. Maybe I'll listen to it on the way home. Maybe I'll zag on Taylor. Maybe it's a Taylor era for me now. The day she gets married.

Yeah, you're going to be at MSG. Yeah, maybe I'll be the efficient. Did I marry Taylor? Yeah, I think that's in line. Does that person get paid for that job? I don't know how it works when you're a tailor-served. I don't believe that they're actually getting married at Madison Square Garden. That's my personal take.

Okay. Where do you think they're getting married? I think, I don't know. But I do. Lincoln Financial Field? Probably. Yeah, I think. Because she's been so good to the Philly community.

That's right. I mean, a home of Jason Kelsey. He'll be the best man, presumably. I think so. But I, maybe they'll use MSG as a staging venue. That's something that Juliet Lippman heard. Or it's like a- As a staging?

Like a gathering point. And then everyone will walk to the Canyon of Heroes in the aftermath of the New York Knicks. I think maybe everyone's asked to make their way to Madison Square Garden because there's a lot of entrances, exits. There's a lot of privacy. And then they'll be taken to the location from Madison Square Garden. Via hovercraft? What are you talking about? I don't know.

Listen, this is not what I do. First of all, I'm not a party planner. Not a wedding planner. I am a party planner. And I throw great parties that would never happen at Madison Square Garden because. I believe in Windows. Number two, I... That's the Mecca, I'll have you know, and it is the home of the champion New York Knicks.

I think that's a wonderful place to win a championship. Yeah. I don't think... We didn't win there. We won in San Antonio. Suck it. Yeah, that's tough. I don't think that I would not choose to get married in a place without Windows.

That's just me. Ironic, because there was not a single window at the venue where you got married. It was outside. That's right. Not a single window to be seen. Yeah, Taylor Swift, yeah, maybe it's time. Okay. This is a really exciting year for you.

I feel great. Yeah, good. Everything is going great. Toy Story 5, crying like a baby. I saw it 12 hours after the next one. That was the other thing to consider. All right. You know, it was Sunday morning.

I was in the best state I've ever been in in my life. So maybe you should consider that when you go see the film, listeners of this show. My bad, if it's not good, I don't really know. I could have watched the worst slop of all time and been like, interesting ideas here. I really like the thematic elements that they were after in this film.

Okay, I think we're done. Yeah. You feel done? Sure. Okay. USA, will they win today? I don't know. Our friend Connor was like,

do you guys want to come watch at an Australian bar? And I was like, I don't really think that that's the energy I can bring my two sons into. Rish. Although they kind of have Aussie madmen quality. Sure, but I just, you know, they're ready to fight at the drop of. of a hat. So we can't put them in a situation like that. It's true.

Okay, well, this was emotionally valuable. Thanks for making this time. Thanks to our producer, Jack Sanders, for his work on this episode. Thanks to Lucas Kavanaugh for his production support. Next week, we're drafting again. It's been a minute since we've had a draft. We recorded the 1976 draft roughly three years ago. So we're doing our first We're doing our first ever redraft. We're redrafting from the year 2010, which was the very first movie draft that we ever did on this show. But this time we're doing it with the whole gang, the big team. It's every June. I know you don't know this, but I know this. Every June we do a mega movie draft. I do know that. Okay, you do know it. Yeah. And so last year,

I absolutely crushed with the perfect, was it 2000, right? And I had Bring It On, Virgin Suicides, Coyote Ugly, Center Stage. One more. I mean, it was legendary. There are literally threes of women at home shaking their heads and saying yes, Amanda, you did. I heard for more than three people. Okay. So Rob Mahoney. Yeah. Joanna Robinson.

Mallory Rubin. Van Lathen. C.R. Me and you. Yeah. 2010. Is there going to be a table? I meant to ask you this and we'll just do it live.

So is it table? I just need to know what pants and shoes to wear. There's going to be table. I believe you will be sitting directly in the middle of said table. Okay, good. Like Jesus himself at the last supper. I'll be off screen the whole time. Thanks for listening.

Enjoy Toy Story 5. We'll see you next week.