The Big Picture - Will Smith’s ‘Aladdin’: Why Does This Movie Exist? | Exit Survey

Episode Date: May 24, 2019

Disney is releasing its third live-action remake of a beloved animated classic this year alone—is this overflooding the market or is it a smart strategy for bolstering their incoming streaming platform? Plus, we examine how Will Smith’s career led him to be a charming (if lacking) Genie, and the perplexing decisions of an ultimately interesting filmmaker in Guy Ritchie. Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to The Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Liz Kelley. Fresh off of Talk the Thrones, The Ringer is introducing a new live Twitter aftershow covering Season 2 of HBO's Big Little Lies. Immediately after each episode, The Ringer's Amanda Dobbins and ESPN's Mina Kimes will be going live to give their initial reactions and break down everything we saw in the episode. And to kick us off, there will be a special Season 2 preview airing on Friday, June 7th at 12 p.m. Pacific. So join Amanda and Mina for Big Little Live every Sunday on Twitter. We're only dreaming A whole new world A dazzling place I never knew

But when I'm way up here I'm Sean Fennessey. And I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about a whole new world. Amanda, we're here for a very specific reason, and that is because Aladdin comes out this week. 27 years after the original Aladdin, Disney has decided to reprise, remake, rethink, recast, re-sing Aladdin. We saw this movie last night, and we're going to talk step-by-step through all of the things that they did with this movie. I imagine that like you and like our producer, Bobby, and like so many people that lived in the 1990s,

Aladdin is a very important piece of pop cultural entertainment. Is that true for you? Yes. And it's always interesting when you watch the live action versions of these, or even when you go back and revisit something you haven't seen in 20 to 25 years, kind of what sticks with you and what comes out of like the primordial ooze of your childhood. And for me, it was definitely A Whole New World, which I was playing at top volume

as you walked into the studio this morning. It's quite early. But yeah, the songs especially. And this was just a phase from 90 to 91, I guess, Beauty and the Beast through The Lion King. I was locked in on the Disney experience. It is a Disney golden age. Beauty and the Beast through The Lion King as locked in on the Disney experience. It is a Disney golden age. Beauty and the Beast, The Lion King, The Little Mermaid. There's a series of movies that happened over this time that were, you know, beloved, hugely successful,

sort of mastered the art of storytelling, Oscar nominated at times. There was a lot of credibility going in Disney's way towards this Disney animation. And so we find ourselves at this interesting moment where Disney, ever in search of valuable IP, is remaking all of their movies. We'll talk maybe a little later

in the show about the remaking of Disney movies in general and what it means to make something quote-unquote live action. As far as Aladdin 2019 goes, maybe we'll have to just call it that

so we don't have any confusion going forward. Or maybe The Fresh Prince of Aladdin or something like that. What did you think of this movie? You and I saw it together and you walked out and you were, if I can quote you, you said, I don't know what movies are anymore. I did say that. Which is a great summation of this is a movie in the sense that it was made by Disney and is about two hours long and is released in elements that was overwhelming and at times enjoyable and at times super confusing. And just does not translate to movie in the sense that you and I, it's like part music video, part nostalgia machine. By the way, that that times really works.

And we're going to talk about A Whole New World like 50 times. You will talk about A Whole New World. Yeah. I'm sorry. Still rules. You know, you can't find great songwriting. It's part a, I guess this is in conversation with the nostalgia, but kind of updating commentary machine. Yes.

And then it's part of Money Grab. And all of those things are in it together. And I find it hard even now to separate my experience of watching the movie from those four things, which are kind of competing on the screen and in your head at the same time. But that doesn't mean that it's a disaster. It's not a disaster, which is kind of interesting. I would say it would be more fun if it was like, whoa, this is the worst movie ever made.

Yes. And when we saw our first look at Will Smith as the genie, there was a part of me that was like, whoa, this is going to be terrible. There's about 10 minutes in the Cave of Wonder. Is that what it's called? That's what it's called. When he's doing You Ain't Never Had a Friend.

Let me take your order. I'll jot it down. You ain't never had a friend like me. Life is your restaurant and I'm your mate today. Come whisper to me whatever it is you want. You ain't never had a friend like me When I was like, oh my God, I don't think Sean and I are going to make it through this movie.

Yes, I think you used the phrase primordial ooze, and there's something about that ooze in this movie that at one turn is sort of leaking towards that warm, familiar, happy feeling that a song like Prince Ali can give me from my youth. Prince Ali, my dear, he's Ali Abagwa. Strong as ten regular men,

definitely. And then at other turns, it is leaking towards just sheer embarrassment. Embarrassed for everybody involved in the movie. Will Smith, the young actors who are largely anonymous

who also star in the movie, director Guy Ritchie, Disney in general. I don't know if I've ever had exactly that experience of feeling like whiplashed between joy and absolute either disgust or like, I don't know, that that icky feeling you get when you're like, God, just make this stop. I have. And it was when I saw Mamma Mia 2. And I did bring up Mamma Mia to you pretty soon after seeing the movie because that line of joy and nostalgia and we're recreating things. And also we're kind of in on the joke or we're winking at this whole experience. I think this movie at moments does do that. And it also does it through, you know, the power of song and dance and fully choreographed numbers, which Mamma Mia has those elements. I think Mamma Mia, especially the first one, toes the line of joy and silliness and avoids embarrassment a bit more than Aladdin does. But, you know, even in Mamma Mia, when Pierce Brosnan starts singing at the end,

you're just like, oh God, no, Pierce, I want more for you. And it's a similar feeling. Would you describe the Mamma Mia movies as schlock? I think that's unkind. Okay. Because there was, I had a twinge of schlock watching Aladdin. Yeah, and I think some of it is just

Mamma Mia has Meryl Streep and Pierce Brosnan and all of these actors who you're willing to give the benefit of the doubt to, who lend their earned seriousness to like, it's kind of like if we're taking this seriously, or if we're doing this, it's okay for you Greek island. There is a knowingness to it that I think it doesn't have to be as earnest as Aladdin does because Aladdin is based on a Disney cartoon. And I think is, I want to talk more about this, but is sort of marketed at children. Yeah, it's hard to know who this movie is for. I mean, Disney, to its credit, and Pixar, and all the Disney properties have always, in fascinating ways, towed the line between movie for kids and movie for kids that makes adults happy. You know, that is the hallmark of a lot of their best work. I think the movies that are best remembered by them as well specifically have that quality. I think the ones, and it'll be interesting to see how a movie like Frozen ages, because Frozen is a classic. Like, kids love that movie and parents are sick of watching it on Blu-ray over and over and over again in their homes.

But Aladdin is one of those movies that I think has aged pretty well, the 92 version. One of the big winners I think of 2019 Aladdin is Robin Williams. Robin Williams as just a creative dynamo as a person who can do something without ever appearing actually on screen. And also Robin Williams as a singer,

Robin Williams as sort of a song and dance Broadway man, all of those things, I found myself appreciating him more after watching this movie. And that's not necessarily a criticism of Will Smith per se. Let's just spend some time talking about Will. Because Will is the only bold-faced name in this movie. This movie will live and die by how you feel about Will Smith's performance. What did you think about Will Smith's performance as the giant blue genie?

That's an important distinction because, and we won't spoil it too much, but part of the time he is the giant blue genie and he's CGI'd into... I love the idea of not spoiling Aladdin. Well, I don't, you know, I just don't want to give away everything. But for part of the movie, he is, as you saw him in the trailer, like very large and CGI-like. And some of the times he is the genie in Will Smith's body. And I think when he is the genie in Will Smith's body, he's pretty funny and charming. And again, I love Will Smith. I grew up watching Will Smith. You were soliloquizing before the movie started about how wonderful Will Smith is.

Please get in touch with me to talk about Red Table Talk and Men in Black and all sorts of thoughts. I have a lot. Very pro Will Smith. So I enjoyed that. I think that the genie in the genie body was tough. And some of that is just the shadow of Robin Williams is very long. And he is clearly feeling that pressure. And in that moment, both not trying to do Robin Williams,

but trying to live up to that level of energy, which I think no other human on earth can do. And, you know, in that body, you're grappling with the cartoon aspects a little more, which both affect his performance and I think affect your reception of it. And it just, it doesn't totally work, which I don't think is his fault. Yeah. The Robin Williams version of the genie, because he's animated, could morph into Johnny Carson. What's your name? Aladdin. Aladdin. Hello, Aladdin. Nice to have you on the show.

Can we call you Al or maybe just Din? How about Ladi? Sounds like, hey, boy. Come on, Ladi. And it wouldn't seem strange. Robin Williams was an impressionist. He could evoke a figure. He could evoke Richard Nixon. He could evoke all these ridiculous characters. And you're like, ah, cool. I buy it. I'm nine years old. This is fun. I don't know who Johnny Carson is, but it sounds good. And in some ways, that's how culture is communicated to you, right? And I think in a lot of ways, Will Smith's genie does that too. It seems a little bit ludicrous

to be speaking so specifically and hopefully thoughtfully about this sort of thing, but the Will Smith genie is the closest I think Will Smith has ever gotten to 1989 rapper Will Smith in a movie. And I'm not, I don't think that's necessarily a good thing, but he is doing kind of like friendly, I don't curse rapper guy, you know, even more so than like the Miami video

for Will Smith or getting jiggy with it or something like that. This is, we're so far from Mike Lowry, bad boys. We're so far from Muhammad Ali. We're so far from whatever the iconic Will Smith performances are. We're even pretty far from the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air. Yes. It's pure shtick. And I found myself thinking, on the one hand, he's doing rapper guy. And he has to because he doesn't have the strongest singing range in the world. And Alan Menken and Tim Rice's songs are actually quite operatic.

They require high registers. More often than not, our hearts have been hurt in a lot of good ways. And baritone profundity. Prince Ali, mighty is he, Ali Ababwa, strong as ten regular men, definitely.

Yes. And if you can't get to those places, you kind of have to like wrap your way through them. And so Will's kind of doing a little bit of that. And then on the other hand, and I'm sure we'll have plenty of time to talk about singing. But on the other hand, you have what honestly struck me as kind of like one of the guys from Queer Eye is the genie. Yeah. Because so much of the Aladdin and uh aladdin and prince ali story is sort of like a makeover movie that's true yeah it's it's perceptive and it is also that the genie is the support and encouragement for the character to go and be who he's supposed to be

which is like coach yes which is very much a part of the queer eye experience yeah yeah it's the thing is like will smith is good at that part of it i it's i'm curious what a 10 year old or even like a 20 year old picks up from it because it is so seated in kind of late blockbuster will smith for me it is a familiar he's doing this style a nostalgic performance of his own in this movie. And if you remember Men in Black or honestly, if you watch his Instagram, I was trying to sell Sean about his Instagram for like a million years where he's doing a very corny, performative version of Will Smith. And with that super positive, always super. Posse dad mode.

And that, so for me, it works because i like that part of will smith and it's comforting um you don't he gets to do that more in his own body which also makes sense when you when you have the mantle of the giant blue genie and all of the cgi that goes with it because that genie is moving they are trying not to be limited by the live action parts of this they make him swirl. They make him, I mean, I understand he's CGI, but. I think it's actually, I would say that the CGI in this movie is largely bad. And it is like full-blown green screen, like 80% of the time.

The genie stuff actually looks pretty good. I was weirdly like, oh, okay, yeah, he's a genie. I buy that. I understand genie logic. It's not that it's ridiculous that there's a genie on screen it's aladdin like you've already bought into the mythology of all that it's just that will smith by his very nature is a modern creation and this is a story set in an ancient time and so naturally like there's just a dissonance and we're supposed to be on board with the distance but kids get the dissonance Will that be legible to them in any way?

I can't tell. I don't know what kids like respond to at all. I think they respond to a boo. You turned to me at one point and were like, why? And I just, and then the monkey did something cute on the screen and everyone in the theater laughed. And I was like, because of the monkey? Yeah.

And there is the monkey and the tiger. It's a- Raja, yes. Raja has a prominent role and i i think there's there's a parrot yeah there's an evil parrot yeah and there's a magic carpet oh yeah see so the kids will respond to that and then it's just like and also there's like a very large bright blue guy that's kind of talking in a very animated way sure why not let me ask you a question i think a good test for pretty much any movie,

but particularly a movie with iconic characters, is who else could have played this part? Now, while I was watching Aladdin, I was like, this is all wrong. This should be Robin Williams. But by the end, I was like,

Will Smith is the genie. I was convinced. I was like, in fact, he has compelled me to believe that he is the genie. So if not Will Smith, is there any living actor who you could see pulling this off?

Man or woman? That would have been the very woke version. Is to be like Meryl Streep is the genie. Yeah, but Meryl's not silly enough. Isn't she? You just told me all about Mamma Mia. But what I'm saying is that like she's still playing Meryl and she still is. We just said Will Smith is just playing Will Smith.

This is the essence. And if you look back on the Robin Williams genie, he's just doing Robin Williams. He's like Robin Williams doing a 30-minute set at Comic Relief in 1987. That's true. But Will Smith is a high-energy guy. And Meryl is kind of, she's scary at her best.

And she does the low Clint Eastwood register. And that's what's powerful about her. Can I pitch a person to you who I think you would respond to? Yes. What if it were Billy Eichner? Oh, that would be fun. Well, I mean, but they're doing a version of that in Lion King because he is.

Oh, that's right. Yeah, he is. I think he's Timon or Pumbaa. He's one of the two. So who are the counselors and also the kid candy in Lion King? So you and Disney are on the same page. I probably just stole that idea. That's the only reason I thought of it. That's fine. I love Billy Eichner. Is there anyone else that you could imagine doing this and having a good time with it and it being effective?

What about Lin-Manuel Miranda, another former Disney high usage rate? Not high energy enough. I think that was part of the issue in Mary Poppins is that, again that's an interesting one because the original is pretty stately and part of updating something for 2019 I think involves injecting a manic energy that so people don't look away from the screen every 30 seconds very true but I don't know whether Lin-Manuel is best suited to that range I I mean, the theater aspects of it are spot on. You got to be able to go really big. That was the one thing I wanted from Will Smith.

I was like, can you just fucking sing these songs correctly? Prince Ali is an iconic children's song. Can you just do it right? Prince Ali, at the end, I was having a great time. When he's in front and they build it to a crescendo and he's just kind of like the grand marshal of the parade. And he is sort of the grand marshal also of the movie. I had a nice time. Yeah, the sequence is pretty fun. It's one of the better executed aspects of the movie. I just

want to hear a better version of this. The arrangements in this movie are a real problem. Yeah, they're weird. They are flat. And I think that the sequences are filmed with a lot of energy and gusto and they're really leaning in. And I don't know whether it's to accommodate the slightly less experienced voices, especially in the case of Will Smith, who, as you noted, is just singing is not his number one pursuit. They also, because the songs do provide story exposition, the arrangements are very focused on making sure you hear all the words which I get from a story perspective but they don't match the energy and like the fullness of the staging and the movie itself and that's a problem because these songs

are iconic I agree with you let's talk a little bit about the story. Okay. In some ways, when I was watching the movie, I was so, so, so bored because I knew everything that was going to happen. And there are moments in the movie that are shot for shot remakes. Are they? Yes. Because that's what I was going to say. I realized that I only remember the songs and certain set pieces and characters from the movie and you know i know what happens in the end because it's a it's a disney movie but i don't remember all of it that that chase sequence at the beginning of the film the cave of wonders that a lot of that stuff that happens the sort of the ruby falling and then oh yeah grabbing the ruby and a lot of that stuff and part of it is because it's sort of like brilliantly designed in the animated movie

and obviously it is lovingly remembered. But there's so much of the movie where I was just like, I have, I know what this is. Like, I don't need this. Like, why are we doing this? If you want to watch this movie, you can just watch this movie.

There are some things that are changed. Not a lot of things. I don't really feel like we'd be spoiling things. I think you actually had a sharper eye about what had been changed than I did when we were watching it, because I couldn't get out of my head the sort of like the sameness of it. Well, the Jasmine of it all jumped out to me. And it's interesting because Jasmine is considered one of the Disney princesses, which I'm just putting aside all of my sociological

rants about this um well she is a disney character and she is a princess i just like i don't like saying the word disney princesses on like in public because i say you know we need to move past this but like whatever no one cares and i have seen and liked these movies too so but she of the the originals is the only one she's not the star of aladdin aladdin is about aladdin but She's not the star of Aladdin. Aladdin is about Aladdin. But Beauty and the Beast is about Belle. Little Mermaid is about Ariel. Snow White is sort of about Snow White, except she's asleep all the time.

Whatever. It's really old. Cinderella sleeping beauty. Exactly. On down the line. They needed to. She doesn't do much in the original Aladdin release. I don't remember her doing as much.

Damsel in Distress. Exactly. And so they rightfully tried to develop her a bit for 2019, which like I applaud and also I think even if it is a cynical, we need girls to be able

to watch this too and this is how we tick the female empowerment box in our marketing budget or whatever, which I'm sure is a literal thing that exists. Script wise,

they do it fairly concisely and without, it's not too, it doesn't jump out too much. The way they do it fairly concisely and without it's it's not too it doesn't jump out too much the way they do it is that she would just like to be the sultan and no one thinks that she should be able to inherit ruling is it a throne what are we calling it what is it sure the throne sorry that's the empire yes but the agrabah Yes. And so that makes sense. And instead, she has to marry another prince.

And so some dumb princes are presented to her. That all, if that is in the original movie, I don't remember it because I was young and not paying attention to it. That, I think, fits pretty seamlessly into the plot of this movie. Unfortunately, they give her a new song. And that was tough for me. This song is called Speechless. And there's both Speechless, the original, and Speechless, like the reprise, reprise? How does one say it? The reprise.

A reprisal. A reprisal. Of speechlessness. And it is an anthem about how she will not be speechless, just to give that, you know, spoil it for you. I think she uses the phrase, I will not be silenced, which struck me as an interesting conflation of some of the, you know, active political dialogue about the way that women have been silenced in this country

over the last 5, 10, 15, 5,000 years. 5,000, yes. Yeah, but you know, it's notable about very specific incidents. And I wouldn't say that that's necessarily a bad thing. Thematically, I understand why they want this character

to be empowered. I'm not sure that this is really the venue to supercharge that idea. It's just also the song isn't done well. It's a 2019 kind of American Idol power ballad sandwiched into a bunch of classic songs

with all respect to Naomi Scott, who plays Jasmine. She's quite good. She's very good. And she's giving it her all. I spent a lot of time... During the reprise, I spent a lot of time thinking about if I had Jasmine as a role on the line, but I also had to sing this song, what would I do? And it seems like she had, at some point,

probably had to be speechless, which is unfortunate, but she gives it her best. I just don't think it was the most elegant execution of what they were going for. Yeah, it's in sharp relief, like you said, because these Alan Menken songs are so well known and so well done previously. And also, I think the thing about the songs in Aladdin, this isn't true of every Disney movie, they're very clever. I steal only what I can't afford. That's everything. One joke ahead of the law, man. That's all. That's no joke. These guys don't appreciate I'm broke. There's a lot of jokes. And like you said, there's a lot of excellent exposition in the songs.

This song, the movie just kind of grinds to a halt. When she starts singing, you're just sort of like, what is she even singing for? Like, we don't even totally know why we've arrived at this moment other than Jasmine needs an empowerment anthem. So we're doing this now. It is the version of like the spotlight on stage moment everything else kind of falls out and the camera's swirling around her and it's just like i don't i don't know if i need this let me ask you about one other significant change made to this movie yes um i don't know how to put this other than to say this genie fucks.

Yeah, he does. What? So, this is a spoiler, I guess. I'm sorry if you're worried about being spoiled by Aladdin, but Nassim Pedrad,

formerly of SNL, appears in the movie as Princess Jasmine's handmaiden, her servant. They're also pals, as these handmaidens in these movies always are.

I find that fascinating that they're always like close friends, even though she works for her. And the genie is attracted to this servant. Yes. And woos her. The servant is also attracted to the genie. Yes, they have a love connection, despite him being a genie. Let's be clear.

He's a genie in Will Smith's body. Yes. a genie let's be clear he's a genie in will smith's body yes and i mean the clothes that genie is will smith chooses to wear are definitely extra sure but it's still she's attracted to will smith and his charisma which you know worse choices have been made in major motion pictures and even in disney movies than being attracted to Will Smith. When he assumes human form, there's a funny moment where Aladdin tries to encourage him

to cut off the top knot that he has on his head. Because the top knot is just very distracting. It's just a strange look. Yeah. Yeah. Were you okay

with the genie having an active physical human life? Theoretically? I don't want to, like, spoil it. I mean, I guess... Well, there's not a sex scene. No, there's... No, I don't want to like spoil it. I mean, I guess. Well, there's not a sex scene.

No, there's no, I just meant like the ending. It is in some way setting up the final, Aladdin's final choice in a way and giving him a, illustrating why Genie would want to be human. I mean, there are several reasons that he would want to be human and be free, but you know, it's giving an emotional dimension to it.

It also just sets up jokes. Like Will Smith Nassim Bajrad flirting is funny. It's great. Nassim Bajrad is very funny, too. Yeah. It's useful to have a skilled comic actor and it's also useful to have a lot of people. And we should probably say this about every actor, you know, Mina Masood and Naomi Scott and Nassim Bajrad all don't cower in the face of Will Smith on a thousand. Yeah. You know, they can kind of hang in the moment. They're not overwhelmed. There was, halfway through the movie, I was like, I don't know who any of these people are.

And that's such an unusual circumstance that you would have a movie this big with this much investment and have only one person that anybody has ever seen before. Yeah. There's not even like the, oh, there's Michael Rooker. I know him. he's like a supporting character like there i don't think i recognize anybody i guess fans of power rangers may have recognized naomi scott yeah and you recognize nassim padrad and you recognize billy magnuson

who that's true yes and you recognize will smith but yeah we have a piece on the ringer today by a writer named omar mual, which is more about how Hollywood has dealt with Middle Eastern characters for a century, and the short version is not well. But it does talk a bit about the casting process that went into this Aladdin and that Disney made an effort to make sure that actors of color were playing roles that were accurately represented. And that's great. And it does also, because of the way Hollywood has handled these actors thus far, mean that it's a lot of people that you have not seen very often.

And it is notable for any movie, but especially a movie of this size. Yeah, that's sort of the point. The idea of not having seen these performers before is understandable, though unfortunate, which is that actors like this are very rarely cast in big movies like this. And it's nice that they made an effort to actually live up to the billing and that there's an Egyptian man starring as Aladdin. Could we talk about Mina Masood for a second? Let's talk about Mina Masood. He is the titular character. He's really good. He was really good. I mean, he is obviously quite handsome, which, you know, thank you to Disney. But also, he and Will Smith do have a buddy duo throughout. And as you said, he's not afraid. He's like standing there next to Will Smith

doing the comedy and hanging in. And it's funny. Yeah, I found him effective too. I think he is, both Mina Masood and Naomi Scott, I said this to you when we walked out, struck me as very gifted Broadway actors. And Disney performance requires that kind of get to the cheap seats affectation where you need to be very big. Your eyes need to go wide. Your voice needs to hit the high register. And they're very good at that. You know, I don't know that I want to see Mina Masood in, I don't know, the next

Michael Mann movie. Maybe he'd be great. It's kind of hard to tell based on this performance. Likewise, how would Naomi Scott do in The Souvenir Part Two? You know, maybe she'd be good. I don't know. My point is just that there's no subtlety to a performance like this. And if you can get as big as Will Smith, then you'll succeed. That is really rewarded. Nassim Pedrad also, as we said, is very funny. The other actors even, I'm just not very familiar with. Naveed Nagabhan as the Sultan. I don't know him, though he struck me as very familiar. Can I ask? So the Sultan plot in this? Mm-hmm. Close to the original?

As far as I can recall, yeah. Yeah, I couldn't remember. Between Jafar and all of that. I remember the serpent... The staff? Yeah, the serpent staff. But otherwise... And I mean, you know, I'm aware that he is interested in having the lamp and lots of power, but that's kind of all I remember.

Yeah, I think it's pretty close, as far as I can remember. We should say that Marwan Kanzari plays Jafar in an effective performance. Do you remember Marwan Kanzari from Murder on the Orient Express? No, I don't. He's had some pretty notable credits, though, in the kinds of films you might expect him to be cast in. He was cast in The Mummy, the recent Tom Cruise remake. He was cast in the recent Ben-Hur remake. You know, the sort of, like you say, there's a long history of sort of a certain actor gets to perform in a certain kind of movie. Right. And that's the only kind of movie they get to perform in, but they don't often get to perform in Aladdin despite its origins. So that's

interesting. I think the cast is effective. I think for the most part, they're able to hang with Will Smith. I guess, let me just pull back a little bit. Did you like this? Would you recommend this to a family? So that's my question. And I asked you this when we started the movie because we sat next to, a younger child came and sat near us. And I was like, this is good

because then we'll have an understanding of how children relate to this. And then I don't know whether the kid fell asleep or something. I didn't really get a sense. I hope that kid has a nice time, but I can't report, had a nice time, but I can't report back on it. I have no sense of how kids will feel about it. They seem a little too scary for me. Not for me, but for kids. Just based on what I know, I suppose if you're like eight or ten, then you're a little more ready for it. But there are like four and five year olds who still can't watch Frozen, is my understanding. That there are parts of Frozen that scare little kids.

And I remember being afraid of Maleficent, who is the Sleeping Beauty cartoon villain. Like Ursula definitely had some edge as a young child. And those are cartoons. And these are darker. The animals look more real. The falls don't look super real to my eyes, but I suppose if you're young. So that's my thing as always.

Are these too scary for small children? Possible. I don't know. Jafar in general is quite evil as evil villains go in disney movies and some of i think that that's one thing that is amplified in this version of the movie is his level of power and evil and the things he does you know you mentioned those famous serpent staff that he uses to hypnotize people the version of it that they use in this movie

um this is certainly the guy ritchie version know, it is much more intense and big. Sure. Though also, like my number one plot hole is like no one else in the room. It's like, get this guy out of here. Yeah. But then also half the time they are. Get this evil guy out of here. Really, it just is like there are always eight people sitting in the room and someone just kind of like freezes for a second. There are seven other people just who should be aware of what's going on at any

given time. And often they are, which kind of undermines the times that they aren't. Anyway, I understand that it's a source material that predates me. Yeah, I'm not sure that the plot mechanics of Aladdin can really be fully examined. When we were looking at these two films side by side, the 1992 version and the 2019 version, we learned that the original Aladdin has 16 people credited with a story by. That's a lot of people to figure out how to tell the story of Aladdin. And, you know, this movie, like I said, at times it feels exactly the same.

And at other times it feels just Jerry-right for 2019. We should say John August co-wrote the screenplay. John August, hugely successful screenwriter. And it's co-written with Guy Ritchie, who directed the movie. Let's talk about Guy Ritchie. Okay. Guy Ritchie is someone I don't know if I should be excited about his new movies or embarrassed to be a fan of his because he makes decisions and he's been a guest on this show before. And I had an absolutely wonderful time chatting with him. He's very entertaining and very charming. And he's obviously a bright guy with a lot on this show before, and I had an absolutely wonderful time chatting with him. He's very entertaining and very charming. And he's obviously a bright guy with a lot on his mind.

And he has built a fascinating world for himself. A sort of tweed coat, wrestling in the basement of my mansion, drinking lager with my pals kind of experience that I find kind of fun and funny and old fashioned and maybe a little bit politically incorrect or whatever. But I get a kick out of him and he keeps doing stuff that I can't quite wrap my head around. So one, I'll say he started his career, obviously, as the director of British gangster movies, Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barrels, Snatch, really well-liked movies, I think, that hold up, that are fun, that are irreverent, that very masculine that have you know a kind of charm a kind of 90s early 2000s charm he's going to be returning to that style later this year and i'm sure that we'll talk about that when that movie comes around it's called the gentleman but in

between those movies he's made a lot of stuff that i'm like what the fuck is this he remade swept away the lena vertmullerer classic starring his then-wife Madonna. I mean, well, that's what that is. I mean, I know why it happened. Love is love. Yeah. But what a waste of time that was. That movie was absolutely destroyed by critics and seen by no one.

He made a couple of other gangster movies in an attempt to get back to where he started, Revolver and Rock and Rolla. They're okay. If Chris Ryan were in your seat, I think he'd be speaking excitedly about some of those movies. And he likes them a lot more than I do. And I suspect that you do. I don't even know if you've seen them. I don't know if I have. Exactly the point there.

They are relatively anonymous as Guy Ritchie movie goes. And then we get Sherlock Holmes. Sherlock Holmes, A Game of Shadows. I do not respond to these movies whatsoever. Okay. I'm not a fan. I like Robert Downey Jr. I like Jude Law.

I like Guy Ritchie. I like Jared Harris. I don't get these movies whatsoever. They felt like a huge waste of time when I was watching them. By the way, that is a response just for future reference. It's not like a... Okay, that's fair. That's fair.

I'm just saying it's always funny when you get something that you think you should really enjoy. I read every Sherlock Holmes thing I could when i was a kid i was absolutely i loved sherlock holmes these movies i just didn't get they and they have some of the same problems as this aladdin movie where it's like what if aladdin but with some jokes from right now which is just not a style that i really enjoy then you made the man from uncle which i believe is one of your favorite movies the last 10 years protect the man from uncle right so I think the man from uncle is pretty good it's not one of my favorite movies it's pretty good and it's like why can't we get more action movies like this with army hammer and Henry Cavill in great suits and then Hugh Grant shows up at the end on a raft I thank you

like it's my style of enjoyable not quite forget it forgettable is unfair but enjoyable not like seismic action movie like I like to go to the movies and see something like this be like all right had a good time I'm out yeah you like an international romp I do you like um like the Italian job you like uh what is that remake that you love that John McTiernan directed? Oh, Thomas Crown Affair, which is New York. I suppose it is international because they go to Martinique on vacation, which is very important. It's mostly located in New York, but yes. Okay.

Amanda's International Romps will be a podcast coming to you soon. Keep an eye out for that. And then he made King Arthur Legend of the Sword, which is what he was here to talk about a couple of years ago. And... the sword which is what he was here to talk about a couple of years ago and um it's a great face that you're making right now i'm trying to figure out what to say yeah and i don't know what to say okay because that's a movie that i went went into wanting to like and i'm a big fan of charlie hunnam i thought he was an inspired choice for king arthur and this king arthur movie in an effort to be original and new, sort of became like a Jackie Chan movie.

Okay. There's a lot of martial arts action in it. And then David Beckham shows up. I like that. I like the in-joke aspect of... It's very in-jokey. ...of Guy Ritchie's movies. And it does have...

It's basically just King Arthur Legend of the Snatch. You know what I mean? That is what he's doing. He just made that kind of movie. And it's basically just uh king arthur legend of the snatch you know what i mean like that is what he's doing like it's just he just made that kind of movie and it's fine um it failed big time and there was a lot of confusion about why he got to make aladdin after king arthur which was not successful the man from uncle which though fun was not successful now the sherlock holmes movies are very big they're very very very very big But I don't know that they're beloved. And so this is, I find this to be such a fascinating and strange Aladdin movie. And you and I, after the movie,

I was trying to get to the bottom of like, why did Guy Ritchie do this? And there's two cases, right? On the one hand, a creative challenge. Remaking something that is beloved. New cast. The opportunity to work with Will Smith, one of the most sought-after actors in Hollywood. Musical. A new setting. A place he'd never been before. Think of all the new opportunities here.

It's so funny. This is the second conversation you and I have had in 24 hours about trying to understand someone's motivations. And you go with creative challenge and I go with money. Right. Well, I think you're right in this case. I think that you're right in this case. No, and I think creative challenge is the generous interpretation

and also a better way of looking at the world. So that's good. I tend to veer towards money on this one. And maybe, you know, and maybe he was interested. It's certainly also Sherlock Holmes is like a blueprint for the type of the success that he would hope to have with Aladdin right which is like a very old uh old IP and familiar to a lot of people but you're

updating it you're putting in a famous really likable actor Robert Downey Jr or Will Smith and hoping to hit big so that then you can make more weird gangster movies I think you're right answer me this uh-huh is it gonna hit big is this gonna be a big hit for Disney I have no idea because if it's not there's no reason to make this movie well, I think that if you are Guy Ritchie and you've seen the success of the Disney live actions up to date, and when you're signing on, you got to assume that making a big budget remake of Aladdin, which millions of people love, starring Will Smith, released by Disney, Disney is kind of your best bet to succeed. You and I are both pretty confused

with Disney's live action strategy right now. And I think we should talk about that. This is the second of three live action remakes that they are releasing in 2019. Arguably four, if you want to include the second Maleficent film. Wow, that's true. Let's go through it a little bit.

There have been successful versions of this and unsuccessful versions of this to me the ones that have worked best have been sort of reimaginings of the histories I'm thinking specifically of David Lowery's Pete's Dragon and I think to some extent

the remake of Christopher Robin of Winnie the Pooh that came out last year now neither of those movies were even close to the financial success of the other movies that we're talking about. So among them, Cinderella, Beauty and the Beast, and The Jungle Book.

Now, I'm going to talk about Marvel for a second, so hang with me. It's fine. I can talk about Marvel. Hang with me. Here's what Marvel did that was brilliant. Okay. They gave a lot of filmmakers

who were ready for a big chance but had never had one, the opportunity to do a grand scale thing and put all of their creativity, specifically the last five years. James Gunn, Ryan Coogler, Taika Waititi, all these people that we've talked about and specifically the Russo brothers. Guys, and they're mostly guys, fair enough, who wanted a big chance, who wanted a big canvas, and they seized the day. The Disney remake strategy is completely the opposite.

And Guy Ritchie is symptomatic of Kenneth Branagh making one of these movies, of Tim Burton making one of these movies, of Jon Favreau's The Jungle Book and his forthcoming The Lion King. There's something interesting to me about putting something that requires no creativity in safe hands versus challenging someone who's got all the spirit of unmade potential and letting them run with that. And it's a completely different producorial strategy. You know, the producers of these movies and the executives in these studios decide who get to make these movies. That's true. The only thing I would say about the Marvel comparison is that what you're citing mostly happened within the second five years of the reinvention of,

well, the invention of the MCU. So, and we are still, I guess Cinderella was 2015. So we're still in the first, I don't know, maybe it's the second phase of Disney's. Live action remakes? Yeah. Well, I mean, it depends on how you want to grade it because Alice in Wonderland came out in 2010. Yeah, but that was just, yeah. But that's what this is. I forgot about that one.

No, you're right. So if you want to just go through the brief history of these films, let's set aside 101 Dalmatians, which came out in 1996, starring Glenn Close. Alice in Wonderland in 2010, Maleficent in 2014, Cinderella 2015, Jungle Book 2016, Alice Through the Looking Glass in 2016, Beauty and the Beast in 2017. That was directed by Bill Condon, also a safe hand. Christopher Robin in 2018, and Dumbo in 2019. We never even talked about Dumbo on this show. It's because I haven't seen it and I probably won't. It's fine.

Who is that for? Not a lot of people because it didn't hit. And that's a fascinating thing too. So Aladdin, of course, comes out this weekend and The Lion King after that in July, Maleficent in October, and then Lady and the Tramp in November, which I do believe is going direct to Disney Plus,

and then Mulan next year, and then Cruella later next year as well. Cruella, of course, is a 101 Dalmatians prequel starring Emma Stone. This is a weird thing that is happening in modern culture. I just don't understand why they're going so fast. I don't understand why there are four or five this year. And I think, especially since they tried to flood the Star Wars market and seem to have recognized that that wasn't working. It's a great point. And have pulled back and they have said that the Star Wars, what is the last Skywalker? Is that what it's called? The one that's coming out?

That's number nine. Yeah. Episode nine, the last Skywalker. No, it's called the Rise of Skywalker's coming out? That's number nine. Yeah. Episode nine, The Last Skywalker. No, it's called The Rise of Skywalker. You blew it. Okay, whatever. The one before was The Last Jedi and this is The Rise of Skywalker. Correct.

Okay, you know what? I got Skywalker right. Okay. And it's coming out this year and they've said that that'll be the last for... I think three years. Yes. And obviously they have TV series that they're releasing to Disney+, but they seemed to recognize, especially with Solo,

that flooding the theater zone with these event movies kind of backfired because it lessens the value of all of them. So I don't understand why then they're doing four of these in a year, because it's like they have a little bit of power over when they release these things would be my understanding. They have all of the power. I mean, they're in charge of modern culture. Is it just to get them all on the streaming service? Is that what it is? That could be a factor.

I mean, I think that Disney, more than any other studio, has been expert at knowing when to release their projects. You know, Solo was considered a failure by many, but even still it made an extraordinary amount of money. It's just by the standards of Star Wars that it failed. These movies, I think, are mostly similar, though Dumbo felt like a bit of a turning point. It was such a low-performing film with such high expectations,

and its release date was so underminy that it revealed a little bit of a weakness in this strategy that you're underlining. This has been going on consistently since essentially this time five years ago when Maleficent came out. That started this five-year run of movies. But I think you're right. They've exhausted the strategy. And Lady and the Tramp going directly to Disney Plus in November when Disney Plus launches, maybe that sets up something new. I think it probably just creates a kind of bifurcated,

here's a small-scale version of a remake. You know, maybe you can do like The Rescuers on Disney Plus and then over on regular Disney theatrical. I don't know. What would be the most likely to be remade at this stage of things? I mean, Snow White is coming at some point, we haven't had snow white a little mermaid seems to be like the the last of the really big ticket from the 90s you mean yeah yeah that's interesting and that's like a tough one for a lot of reasons both logistical with the whole water situation

and political, because that movie has some issues. You know what movie does feel like it could stand up to a remake is Mulan. I think that Mulan remake that is coming out in a couple of years, maybe a year from now, which is directed by Nicky Caro, which I think will make this the first film of these films to be directed by a woman. Mulan is an epic epic tale and then there's battle sequences and there's there's kind of a reason for it to come to life i'm not sure that

and we can take this back to aladdin a little bit as we wrap up i just don't know that aladdin needed to be live action for any reason i don't know that there was any purpose to it creatively i did think that the recreation of that first chase scene, the one step, I don't know what the name of that song is. I just know the lyrics, was kind of exciting. It certainly moved and had a bit more sense of place than other parts of the movie. And it's kind of like illustrating a world which I found exciting I was like oh this is this is kind of cool and I do think Prince Ali and a couple of the other like the final dance sequence not to spoil anything that was fun that is fun and and that for me was when the Mamma Mia

comparison really kicked in because Mamma Mia does that right like the story resolves and then one more dance number it's Waterloo again um so I think that there is a certain fun to seeing some of these things realized the magic carpet was pretty fun it's like lo-fi but I don't know he had a little personality and it was just like a magic carpet sailing around i mean maybe i'm just a woman of simple pleasures but yeah it's fine i understood parts of it and i but i still just don't know who goes to see this i suppose it's for people who grew up on this movie who now have children yeah like i like we're in the target though. Sure. We don't have children, but we are in that exact zone. And I walked out being like, what?

There must be creative new stuff that I can show my kids instead of this, or I could just show them the 1992 version and be happy with that. I do think if you like actually if you had a kid and were like, I would like to share something that I remember fondly from childhood with my child. I'm aware that you could just watch and were like, I would like to share something that I remember fondly from

childhood with my child, I'm aware that you could just watch the Disney movie. Though, I think the thing is like until there's Disney+, the Disney cartoons are expensive or hard to get. That is a very interesting thing that has happened. And I guess that's part of what informed their decision to kind of quote unquote remake these movies because Disney has the opposite strategy from almost every studio, which is that they put their films in a vault. They don't let you buy them. You can't get them on iTunes. You can't rent them in stores. You can buy them on Amazon usually, but for the most part, it's much harder to see these movies unless you own them. Then I don't know, Fievel goes West. you know what I mean like a kids movie from that time which is just

widely available Disney treats their library with an extraordinary care and strategy which is part of why I don't want to say I'm offended

but I'm just kind of confused and unnerved by these remakes because it's like you guys actually care about what you make and you've made us believe that you make magic

and then you keep making these movies that aren't good that aren't interesting but like beauty and the beast is not interesting it was a huge hit i get why it was a huge hit that movie is not interesting has nothing to say about anything but it's the movie as amusement park thing which like disney is very leaning is really leaning into and if they can put something in theaters that you'll take your kids to because you got to take your kids to something. And, and also the movie's not available for you to buy or to rent, to park, you know, park your kids in

front, not park your kids in front of that sounds dismissive to share with your children. I feel like I have talked to all my friends who have kids or just like Disney plus kind of changed the game for us. And that's great. I will not be buying it because I, you'll just tell me what happens on the Mandalorian and then I'll be good. But I think if you understand... I guess we should X you out of The Mandalorian podcast.

We're planning here at The Ringer. I honestly feel like if I just came on for five minutes and was like, so here's what I learned. Here's my take on this episode of The Mandalorian. It would be great content,

but whatever. But you're not subscribing, so how will you be able to do that? I think I would. I would do it for the bits. I think if anything that we've learned in this podcast in its life is that I would do it for the bits. But it's just that Disney understands that they can get families to pay for an experience. And these movies are an experience and they're maximizing the theater as an experience before they give the streaming service as experience.

Okay, one last thing about this. Yes. So many of these movies that we're talking about, these remakes, are based on source material. They're based on, you know, Arabian Nights. They're based on Hans Christian Andersen stories. They're based on Hamlet. They're based on Shakespeare all over these movies. So there's like a lot of historical source material these are not wholly original tales they're reimaginings of world

historical tales aren't there just more of those that we can find and make why do we have to remake the same 18 movies that they made it's like all the last 50 years stories are just the same seven stories again like we've talked about this i'm just saying you asked the question and there's the answer i i agree with what you're saying and also because as we have learned from marvel and from the ip wars of the last 20 years people you get people's attention by something that's familiar it's really hard to break something new right now do you think that we're going to have a version of this with pixar in like 20 years where we have live action Pixar movies presumably I mean they're they're doing like it's Toy Story 4 is this year it is right so I guess they're kind of going back in for one last Pixar experience on all of them

and then at some point I'm sure something maybe it'll be a TV show yeah these movies like you said at the top of this show they blur the line between like what even is a movie because all this movie shot on green screen, a giant blue genie is the main character. And yet there are human beings all over the place. And so if you work at Disney Animation or if you work at Pixar and you're like, I'm an animator, that's what I do. That's my craft. That's the kind of film I love. That's the thing I've devoted my life to. If you make Aladdin, you're also basically an animator.

It's kind of all the same kind of movie. And that's so weird because if you look at what Disney Animation has done over the last five or 10 years, you look at Zootopia, Big Hero 6, Wreck-It Ralph, Wreck-It Ralph 2. These are big, huge, successful movies. They're really creative. I know you don't care about them, but that studio has actually done an amazing job of successfully continuing the legacy of this company. And then simultaneous to that, we got Aladdin and Dumbo again.

And it's just, there's a dissonance that I have not resolved. I've been wanting to write about this for like well over a year. And I still can't really arrive at where I'm at other than just like everybody's greedy. Like they just want to make more money. Yeah, I think they have these things that have value. And they were just trying to figure out how to get more value out of them. Yeah. I guess that's what we're all doing at the end of the day.

We're trying. Should we close with a little comment about DJ Khaled? Oh my God. All right. I lost my shit. I almost don't want to spoil it for people. So if you want to have a pure experience of Aladdin, turn this off. But so at the very end,

they do their nice dance sequence at the end, cut to black. And then the voice of DJ Khaled. You know it's Will Smith and DJ Khaled. Booms out in the theater and it's Will Smith and DJ Khaled doing a credits remix of You Ain't Never Had a Friend Like Me. Jazz me like a flower, it's the boom. Grand you wishes it don't even cost a dollar.

You got it on the carpet when you rock and wanna holler like hey. Tell me where you wanna go. Hold up. And it is what it sounds like when I say that it's DJ Khaled and Will Smith doing a credits remix of You Ain't Never Had a Friend Like Me. And I was both horrified and delighted because, listen, Wild Wild West was hilarious. You know, it's like that is it. That is the most nostalgic part of these 90s movies for me is Will Smith just doing like corny shit on the credits that then logs itself into my brain forever.

And here we are again, they did it. In the grand tradition of Wow Wow West and Men in Black and credit sequence songs that Will Smith is cornily rapping, this remake, remix. It was so loud. It was, you and I never stay in the theater and we just sat there.

No, you were like, we have to stay. I was just like, well, now we have to know about this. Yeah, it was kind of a big hokey cherry on top of a corn dog sandwich. I couldn't really... But getting DJ Khaled to do it is funny. It was funny. It was very funny. That is the part of the movie that is aware of what it's doing.

Do you think Khaled and Will Smith recorded that together in person? Absolutely. I want to see that video. Of course, me too. I want to see them FaceTiming each other. Diary of a Song, Joe Pasquarelli, please get on it. Wow, great call. Amanda, any lingering thoughts about 2019's

Aladdin directed by Guy Ritchie? I just would really like to know what some people with children have to say about this. That's the mystery that I can't solve. Maybe we'll find out on the runner.com. That seems like a good thing for us. There we go. For Amanda Dobbins, I'm Sean Fennessy. This has been an hour-long conversation about Aladdin. Thank you.