The Bill Simmons Podcast - 2019 Zion Hype vs. 2003 LeBron Hype, Beyonce vs. Adele, and the Death of Albums With Joe House and Zane Lowe | The Bill Simmons Podcast

Episode Date: May 17, 2019

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Joe House to discuss the NBA lottery draw, (unlikely) options for Zion, whether anyone can trade for Anthony Davis, fake trades, and a PGA Tour check-in (4:25). Then Bill sits down with DJ, record producer, and host of Apple Music’s Beats 1 Radio, Zane Lowe, to discuss the rise and fall of music platforms, parenthood, Zane's music journey, and more. They talk indie rock, hip-hop, pop, yacht rock, and more (46:55). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Tonight's episode of the BS podcast on the rigor podcast network is brought to you by the zone stream over a hundred fight nights a year without the pain of pay-per-view getting set up as easy. Download the zone app available on nearly any of your devices, including smart TVs, tablets, phones, and gaming consoles. Listen to this email. I got from Philip Rose. He's in Canada. He's in Vancouver. He wanted to give a shout out to Canada DAZN. Apparently they own Sunday Ticket in Canada. And he's like raving about it.

What a great deal it was. He loves DAZN, all that stuff. So there you go. If you're in Canada, get NFL Sunday Ticket through DAZN. So thanks to them. Hey, SeatGeek, the best app for buying and selling tickets to sporting events concerts and more for ten dollars off your first c geek purchase on any game or sporting event which includes a lot of good sports this summer but also a lot of concerts a lot of concerts kyle you going to a concert this summer going to some dodgers games no

concerts dodger games c geek is great for Dodgers games. Download the SeatGeek app or go right to SeatGeek.com. Use promo code BS. We're also brought to you by TheRinger.com, the world's greatest website where between Game of Thrones and John Wick 3 and the NBA playoffs and the Zion lottery and all the other stuff going on, we're in our glory right now. Thank you for all the content, everybody out there. Thank you.

Keep giving us stuff to write about and talk about. Check out our podcast network as well. Don't forget about our last Talk the Thrones episode ever. Wow. Kind of sad. Getting emotional. Last Game of Thrones Sunday night, obviously on HBO, and right

after that, hashtag Talk the Thrones on The Ringer. Mallory Rubin, Jason Concepcion, Chris Ryan. And if you want to actually get ready for the last show, you can listen to The Watch. They broke down the previous episode. You can listen to Binge Mode, which went up today, actually. Mallory and Jason, the premier authorities on that show. And then the other premier authorities, me and Russillo. On our YouTube channel, which you can get to at youtube.com slash ringer,

we have cut out all of the reviews that Russillo and I did for each episode of Game of Thrones. And we call it Throne Game. I fully expect, look, it's up to you guys, but I fully expect it to have millions of YouTube views shortly, within the next, I'll give you like two weeks, but you can listen to Throne Game

and we will be, we have actually a replacement for Rosillo on Sunday night because he's away. You know who that replacement is? No, who's he going to be? He's been booked. He's an old friend. Cousin Sal my god really the cuz we're gonna do uh pga gambling basketball and then obviously game of thrones so the cuz he's coming out of the bullpen for rassila and then rassila and i are gonna do

a i can't remember when he's coming back but he will be back back. But yeah, we tapped into Rosillo twice this week. So we're giving him some break. He needs to go back into the garage and refuel, do some dead lifting, get ready, do some squats. Power cleans. Some power cleans, maybe stare down some dudes in the gym. So he will be back next week. But yeah, Cousin Sal coming on Sunday. What a night that's going to be.

I can't wait. Coming up, we're going to talk to House really quickly about the lottery and also PGA and whether there's some betting inefficiencies as we head into the weekend. And then a podcast that I'm very excited about, or an interview I'm very excited about, or a hang. It's not an interview. It's more of a conversation. It felt like a hang. Yeah. Kyle loved it. It got like nine grunts from Kyle during the course of the, uh, the, the hang, uh, Zane Lowe, the, the esteemed employee of Apple who has, uh, is one of the best music curators we have. I like to call him a curator, but we have a long history, which we will talk about during the podcast, but really fun. If you love music, I would highly recommend sticking around for that one. First,

speaking of music, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right. On the line right now, one of my oldest guests, one of my only guests who's in his 50s or higher, the one, the only, Joe House, coming fresh off his 50th birthday party. I was so proud, so proud that there was no social media mistakes, no drunk house photos, no nudity. You seemed like you handled it very well, or you just passed out. What happened? Well, I'm actually saving up. I mean, I kind of announced it. I'm going to be celebrating my birthday for the rest of this year.

And so there's no reason to really rush into anything. I expect to be you know on a on a on a ratio basis uh i expect this year that i've turned 50 to consist of you know probably 40 percent uh increase in in uh pass out drunks blackout drunk nights that's great that's my goal that's what i want to hear i have news for you your 50th birthday um as well as the meal we had when you were here, I had a little epiphany. I'm getting in shape again, house going to go back to what was going on in 2012, 13, 14, when you really kind of resented how I was living my life. It's all coming back, house. It's happening. Here's why.

My 50th is like four and a half months away. Yeah. I'm returning to the basketball court. Yeah, that's right. Why? I'm going to turn 50. Why. I'm getting my legs in shape. I'm getting my body in shape and I'm coming back so I can play with my young ringer peeps because that's really, I feel like they respect me somewhat now, but to come out there and hit

19 footers at age 50 right in their mugs that's what will really really win the respect that i need i'm watching what happens with denaris and game of thrones like you can lose it you can lose the hold of the people really fast i don't want that to happen with me and my ringer people so i'm coming back house i want you to get in shape i support you getting in shape thank you i don't think you need to change your diet. Your diet is fine. No, it's not. You need to work on some core strength, some glute strength, some hip mobility. I got all that going.

Because you need to work on the golf swing. You've got a good golf swing. We finally played two rounds of golf together. I want you in shape for the golf trip that we're going to go on. The basketball thing is a terrible idea. You're not going to be making 19-footers in anybody's mug. You're going to just line up to shoot, and in your brain, you're like, oh, yeah, I get this off quickly.

Your brain says, I know how to shoot a 19-footer. Your body is going to take seven and a half minutes to get the ball in a shooting position, and Micah Peters is going to come over and make you eat the basketball. That's what he thinks, but as I'm draining a 19 footer over his mug he's going to be like wow man this is nobody has a boss like this guy i am really so i'm against this all right i'm against the basketball i knew you were on the record i'm against it um yeah the golf too i should i should be able to play 218 wholehole rounds of golf in consecutive days without being in pain the next day. So that's it.

That's all true. Your 50th birthday motivated me. Thank you for that. We have not talked at all since the lottery. Exchanged just a couple brief texts about the, as usual, the Wizards just got screwed. I felt bad for you. You somehow dropped, what, you dropped got screwed. I felt bad for you. You somehow dropped.

What, you dropped three spots somehow? Yeah. Three teams jumped you? What are you going to say? Wiz going to Wiz. I mean, we don't have a GM. The best player is the most overpaid player in the league. I mean, what do we want?

We could have won the lottery. That could have happened, but it wasn't likely, and it didn't happen. So, Russillo and I did a live show slash podcast that night, which we ran on this feed. And I haven't had any, uh, I obviously no forums since then. And there's a couple of points I missed one, which I saw online. So I apologize to whoever I'm stealing this from, but how ironic was it that the Lakers finished with a better draft pick than the Cavaliers, even though the Lakers got LeBron

and LeBron left the Cavs and the Cavs were bottoming out this year. Like if I was a Cavs fan, I would lose my mind over that. I can't believe it played out that way. That was one thing. The big thing I came away from over the next 20,

over the 24 hours after the draft was the possibility of Zion not going to the Pelicans. Cause, and there was all this buzz and I couldn't figure out what was true and not true. He stormed out of the lottery after, then that turned out that wasn't true at all. There was video of him before the lottery, walking by all the chairs and double tapping the Hawks logo, like giving a little extra love, like that's where he wanted to go. And he never came out after and like tweeted or anything. And it was in play for a second. And we were slacking about it on the ringer and base slack for an hour yesterday. And it was like multiple, several people are typing type of moments. Everybody kind of getting

excited for Zion to pull the ultimate power play and be like, trade me or I'm going back to Duke. But now it seems like he's going to New Orleans. I'm not surprised, but I'm disappointed because if we're going to have the player empowerment era, let's actually have it. Let's have somebody get drafted and be like, actually, F you. I'm pulling a John Elway. I'm pulling an Eric Lindros.

I'm pulling an Eli Manning. I'm pulling a Steve Francis. Yeah, I'm pulling a John Elway. I'm pulling an Eric Lindros. I'm pulling a, an Eli Manning. I don't want to play for you, Francis. Yeah. I'm pulling a Steve Francis. I'm sorry. I just don't want to play for your team.

So you're going to have to trade me. Did, did that enter your mind at all during this week? I, yes. And I still think it's a possibility. Um, he just doesn't have to use the,

I'm going back to Duke card card but like the next four months are going to be so incredible the entire league is going to be rewritten in terms of the very best players in the league and where they end up like I don't I can't hazard even hazard a guess how this shakes out who's going to be on what teams yeah i can't even guess there's too many moving parts too many moving pieces and you know i i just have to we have to wait until september the first to know you know who's going to be playing for what team i think it's possible that zion and his team let it be known that he'd prefer to play somewhere else i mean it's in his interests and the team's interest to keep all of that quiet so that the pelicans if they do indeed want to deal him are

doing so from a position of strength you can't get much stronger leverage than zion all by himself now you know you don't you don't want him saying publicly i don't want to play there and then have teams you know come in and and try and uh shortchange the pelican so i i'm not 100 convinced he's going to play in new orleans well he's convinced go ahead he said the right things today which made me think like oh they're just gonna be like all right cool. New Orleans is good. It's a great city. You and I love New Orleans. I've had some incredible times there. For whatever reason, the basketball team has been unfathomably unsuccessful and is being run by the guys who actually run the football team.

Their gate receipts are bottom three in the league. They got rid of the local newspaper, so they're only being covered by some dude at the athletic. I think, um, it's just, it's just not like the major market you wanted to walk into, but I still feel like, you know, if I'm Zion, obviously I, what I heard was that he wanted to go to the Knicks or the Hawks. And I have that on pretty good sourcing, but was also like, whatever. I'm just happy to be in the NBA. I don't think it ultimately matters where he plays the first few years because it didn't matter for LeBron in Cleveland. It didn't matter for KD and Russ and OKC. I just think if the guy's

good, he's going to command everybody's attention anyway. And he's also, Fantasy and I, we were texting about it. We were arguing about whether he was more hype than LeBron. And Fantasy was like, LeBron was definitely more hype. That was, you know, everybody was saying he was the Messiah next door and all that stuff. I actually think Zion had more hype because I think there's more ways to hype somebody in 2019. Because in 2003, you had SportsCenter, you had PTI, you had the Sports Illustrated cover, and probably like two other, the ESPN.com. And he was on ESPN, his high school games were on three times. We knew about Zion when he was in the 11th grade.

He basically was one of the people that made House of Highlights. He played for Duke. When his shoe exploded, that was probably one of the big water cooler moments of this entire year so far. The fact that the Knicks were involved with potentially getting him in the lottery was a huge thing that I think ballooned his stock a little bit.

And I think Zion has more hype. What do you think? You'd be the tiebreaker. I think they're equally hype. So that doesn't break the tie. Okay. Because I mean, you'll recall, we watched LeBron in high school playing basketball on television with like Dickie V and, uh, uh, uh, my boy Billis calling the game.

I mean, we were analyzing LeBron's jump shot while he was in high school in a game broadcast on ESPN. So, you know, the hype machine for LeBron, and LeBron was on the cover of Sports Illustrated in high school. Yeah, but the thing is, he was, but there was still, he was like as much of a short thing as anybody was at that point but there was still like the he's coming out of high school you never know and you know he's we these young guys come in the league mj mj had had anointed him mj

gave him the the blessing right no but he but it seemed like he was the surest thing that had come out of high school. But I still feel like we've had some good, sure things. Shaq going to Orlando, I think Shaq was about as hyped as any NBA rookie I can remember the last 30 years. I don't think LeBron was more hyped than Shaq was. I think Duncan in 97, even though he wasn't as flashy or as fun as somebody like LeBron, there was still the sense that if your team got him, you're going to win

the NBA title. I think Davis was a notch below this. Durant definitely was, although I think with Durant, everyone was just so excited to have this incredible offensive player in the league. I don't, I don't think even like you and I thought he was going to be this good, but we thought he was going to be somebody that averaged 30 points a game and was going to be a potential hall of fame score and things like that. Um, I feel like

for me, Zion is the most sure I felt about anybody that's coming to the draft this century. And I would have Durant second. I would have LeBron third and Davis fourth would be my rankings for the four short things. What would be your rankings? LeBron would be one. Zion would be two. Durant would be two way. And Anthony Davis would be four.

Really? You'd have LeBron won. I mean, he just... He was amazing. And he delivered. I mean, the parts of LeBron that I think we, because we are so accustomed to him now, don't give him enough credit for

is how much poise he had as a child yeah as a teenager he arrived so ready to be a professional basketball player and handled his business for the entirety of his career the best criticism we can muster until this year when he went to the shitty lakers which is so good the best criticism we can muster of lebron up until this year was that decision thing, which was just him miscalculating the right way to kind of deliver news about a change in his life. Like he's a good dude by all indications. You know what I mean? He hasn't stepped on his legacy.

He hasn't been his own worst enemy in any way shape or form all he's done is meet and exceed expectations and really change the landscape of professional basketball through a thing that you call you mentioned a couple of minutes ago this player empowerment thing begins and ends with him yeah the the era of these two-year three-year contracts where the player or one-year contract these deals where the where guys can pick their their teams every couple years the teams don't have any leverage to say oh no no you must sign for longer that's all because of lebron i mean it's it's incredible you got to give him credit i think i agree that's a good segue i do feel like zion could have controlled

this and it would have been the logical conclusion to the player empowerment decade for Zion to just be. And, you know, I've heard the arguments like, well, that would be bad for his brand coming in the league. It's like, you think these guys did affect anyone else's brand switching teams? Like KD, who became way more polarized after winning the Golden State, didn't affect his brand. He just had just as many chances. He was more famous than he was before he did that. But I think with Zion, it would have been riveting if he had just been like, I'm not going. I want to play for Atlanta or the Knicks, or I'm going back to college. I can reenter the draft on May 29th. By the way, he didn't have to go to college either.

He could have gone to like real real Madrid for $20 million for one year. He could have definitely absolutely gotten out of this. It's Thursday night. The draft, the lottery was Tuesday. All that stuff can still happen. Nothing's happened yet. He hasn't signed a contract.

He hasn't, you contract he hasn't you know uh done any any deals other than maybe whatever's happening with his shoe deal like all that stuff can still happen the only thing that i'm positive he's not going to do is go back to college because and i also don't think he's going to threaten to go to europe he needs that clock to start running on the rookie contract so he can sign the mega extension as soon as possible this is all conjecture he's going to new orleans we neither of us think anything other than that is happening i'm just saying this could have been a really fun 10 days where he could have just strung it out be like i don't know what i'm gonna do i don't know yeah yeah talk to me in a week like if you're just talking about what can raise awareness and

attention which seems to be like all we do now this decade with social media and selfies and you know everybody's just constantly trying to get attention for themselves and maybe he's not wired like that yet he's young but if you're just trying to build your brand and some mystique around you that actually would have been a pretty good move. You're like, I don't know. I might go back to Duke. I don't know if I'm totally happy with this yet, but he could have spun it this way. Not as like New Orleans is too small for me or whatever. He could have been like, look, I kind of want to know what's going to happen with Anthony Davis. If I can control my own destiny here and you're telling me they have this generational power forward in their team and they're going to trade him for,

I kind of want to know how that trade plays out before I say to myself, yeah, I'm definitely going to go to this team. And then I'd also, why is Anthony Davis unhappy? Why does he want to leave? I just have some questions. Give me a week to figure out how I feel about this. And that would have been incredible. It can still happen. It's barely been 48 hours. Well, I'll tell you this.

I, my instant reaction has not changed two days later, him and Davis and drew holiday and some cap space and maybe one veteran free agent. And I don't know what else. I just really liked that team. I thought Drew Holiday was the most underrated top 35 guy in the league last year. Like he's just really good. And if he's your third best guy and the way that Davis Zion combo, like that inside outside potential and the way they compliment each other and the defensive flexibility they have and how hard Zion plays, I just like the team.

So if they end up not trading Davis, I would really look forward to watching them. Don't you feel the same? Oh, I absolutely feel that way. And is it we're counting Julius Randle out of the picture now? Yeah, Julius has been driven to the airport and his bags have been given to the baggage guy. I think he's going to be an asset.

I actually like Julius Randall. I thought he played pretty good this year. He's going to have a moment where he is on a playoff team and is just lighting it up in a round one and people are like, oh, wow, Julius Randall. Wow, man. He turned into something, but it's not going to be a round one and people are like oh wow julius randall wow man he turned into something but it's not gonna be a new ones i don't think i i i feel like new orleans right this second is like affirmatively in the middle of the western pack like i think they're they're

right there with like uh the clippers well actually it's hard you mean with the team they have now this is the challenge i can't say the clippers because the clippers are going to be incredible after this summer the i don't know what's going to happen with the lakers but i think new orleans with zion and ad are already better than the lakers but who knows is going to end up on the lakers well who knows where AD goes? What if they trade AD for a picks and young players package? The more I thought about it the last 48 hours,

it's such a fascinating situation for somebody as good as Zion to go into. Think about when this has happened the other times this decade. The last time this really happened and the way it's happening now

is with Tim Duncan in 97, where he goes to a team that has Duncan, I'm sorry, David Robinson, Sean Elliott, and Popovich. And that's like an awesome situation. I think they won like 58 games that year or something. LeBron goes to the Cavs. They're a train wreck. Ricky Davis, all those dudes on that team. Like it took them years to come out of that. Anthony Davis goes to new Orleans. I don't even really remember who was on the team when he, when, when he got there, but it wasn't anybody, any of us will remember Durant goes to Seattle. They trade Ray Allen for Jeff green and something else. And they're just in a full rebuild. Zion has a chance to go into a situation that he might,

that team might be like a 52 win team next year if they made the right moves, you know, which I think is great for him. I agree. I mean, he wants to be, it's in his interest to be on, on a stage where the team is in the playoffs.

It's definitely helpful to him to be in the West and to get all that, like, you know, the shine that comes from being in the West. Although the East has really acquitted itself very well, I think, over these playoffs in the East now. I agree. I think it's been even. Yeah, but I still think the West, you know, the shine of the West with the stars,

seeing Zion against those stars is going to be fun to watch. I agree. So the kind of trade that they can make. The next thing is really complicated now, you know, because I don't know if the three pick and Kevin Knox and all that stuff, I don't feel, unless you just love R.J. Barrett, I'm not sure that's enough to get Anthony Davis. Same thing with the Lakers.

If Ingram's health wasn't in question, I think if you put the four and a healthy Ingram and a couple other things, they're probably the favorites, but the Pelicans have been pretty clear. We're not trading him to you guys. Celtics just got the Memphis pick rolled over, so that's still an asset. 14-20-22, eh, not great. Tatum, huge step back this year. I'm not positive they have enough either. My point is, I don't know what the anthony davis trade is which makes me wonder if i'm new orleans do i just keep them together for a few months and hope they click and if they don't i'm

probably still getting the same package from the lakers in february right oh 100 yeah so why not why not take a look look they they they're not trading they got 3 000 season ticket new season ticket uh uh sales in the in the 48 hours after zion i mean after the the lottery they have to show up on day one with anthony davis and zion and you know whatever they could put around them yeah you know drew holiday they they they owe it to the to it to the fan base and to the city to do that. I mean, I want to see it. Me too. I want to see those guys play together.

So our recommendation is no trade. No trade. Just wait. The trade deadline's February 2020. What's the hurry? The only thing that could burn them is if the Lakers panic because they're not trading Davis and just end up doing something else. But I don't know what that would be.

So the more, so what the more, the more interesting trade person is the number two team Memphis. Cause they basically already come out and said, they're taking John Moran. Celtics have their pick top six protected next year. They have Mike Conley. It doesn't make a next year. They have Mike Conley. It doesn't make a lot of sense to have Mike Conley

in a rebuilding project with two 19 and 20-year-olds, Jaron Jackson, Jay Morant, which they should want to be bad and they should want to bottom out one more year and the whole thing. So it's like, oh yeah, they'll trade Conley. That'll be great. It's complicated.

He's 32 and a half this year or this upcoming year. And then he's got a 34.5 million player option the year after that and it's twofold there's there's really not a lot of teams that need a point guard you know it's it's the washington does it's a deep you don't have the the uh we don't have anything yeah you're out i out. I crossed you off. Okay. Most teams have a point guard that they're pretty happy with. He also makes so much money, it would be hard to even make the trades match. And then some teams might not be crazy

about spending $68 million on Mike Conley. So you're looking at a situation where I think Indiana needs a point guard. They might make sense. Maybe the Knicks, if they got KD situation where I think Indiana needs a point guard. They might make sense. Maybe the Knicks, if they got KD and Kyrie ended up not going there and you do like a Dennis

Smith Jr. and Courtney Lee's expiring for Conley, something like that to give a second star. I think Utah potentially. And then the Wild... What do we know about Conley who's running the pick and roll? Philly could use a

point guard that knows how to run a pick and roll I know but they don't have the contracts because they basically have either giant contracts or small contracts and Elton Brand traded all their assets so he could lose in the second round so that happened too House I'm going to throw this trade at you you're not going to believe this

but the Celtics are involved. Hayward? Oh, thanks for not laughing. I thought for sure you were going to laugh when I said Hayward. I'm listening. I'm patient. Hayward matches the contract. Yes.

Hayward 14 and 20 for Conley. I bet Memphis does that. How much longer? What additional years on? The same number of years? Yeah. Yeah, I think that kind of makes sense for Memphis.

And it definitely makes sense for Hayward. So Boston does that. Just walk me through my hypothetical. I don't have to have Kyrie in my life scenario again. Boston does that trade and then offers basically Tatum, Smart, and every other first round pick and Robert Williams, whatever they just godfather offer for Davis or try to and hope to bowl New Orleans over with that.

And then next year, it's basically they're left with Davis, Mike Conley, Jalen Brown. Why would Davis resign with Boston if all the assets are gone? He probably wouldn't. I just don't want Kyrie. Okay, good try. I don't want Kyrie. Good try. Good try. I don't want Kyrie. Good try. Good effort.

I don't want Kyrie on the team again. I don't know how that could work. That relationship has been poisoned. If Kyrie Irving shows up in Boston for game one in October, the whatever, if it's going to be the 20th in the garden or whatever they call it now, Boston is going to boo. The crowd is going to boo Kyrie Irving's introduction. What can he do to redeem himself

and reclaim his status in that city? I don't think anything. He's got to go. I try not to be one of these guys that's like the talking cat on ESPN who makes points like this, so I apologize in advance. Embiid crying after game seven

and how immediately just devastated he was and the whole thing and how he handled it and then the viral video of him hugging his girlfriend after and all that stuff. Compared to how Kyrie went out in that Buck series those last couple games.

Which guy would you rather have on your team? Now, granted, I'm not saying Embiid is infallible. The dude needs to stop having four milkshakes a day and needs to actually get his ass in shape before he ends up having real knee troubles and ends up out of the league. He needs to get in real shape. There's a maturity thing there, I think. Yeah, but it's time now, Joel. Get in fucking shape. And if he does a maturity thing. Yeah. But it's time now,

Joel, get in fucking shape. Time to grow up. Yeah. We want to see, we want to see you, you know, I want to read the article about how you got so-and-so personal trader and

you're in the best shape of your career. And Oh my God. And this guy's going to go for 35 and 15. Let's have it. No more excuses. You're like 25 years old, get in shape. Um,

but that compared to the kairi just could not have cared could not have cared at all at the end i think the feeling was mutual yeah he was just ready to go he's like he's like everybody felt that way yeah good riddance i wish him a lot of luck in his next stop i will say loved though. I mean, other than the fact that he completely killed our team from within like a rotten apple. I loved watching him. I've never seen a player more entertaining from in the air and traffic

and lefty righty, all that. I've just never seen anything like it. Give me any more lottery thoughts that you have. Any, like the Knicks at three we both like RJ Barrett more than most right he's fine I still have my doubts about I just

don't like that shooting percentage that he had at the end of games and the fact that he got all the touches and Zion didn't get any touches it seemed like he had blinders on at the end of games that's a curable defect yeah he took a lot of big shots and made a lot of big shots he has professional level swagger right now and i other than that one sort of nagging concern i didn't like the way he he you know in in close games he uh conducted himself with a minute left

otherwise he's got all the skills. He's got everything. He's got everything that you want. He's got an inside game, outside game. He can score from anywhere. He'll get foul calls because of the way he leans. I love his body control. Would you want to see him?

He's going to be a great finisher. Would you want to see him and Zion in New Orleans together? Wow. With or without AD? Without, right? wow with or without ad well it'd be out right ad ad for you know the third pick um kevin knox two first rounders something like now i'd rather see i'd rather see zion with ad i think i would too it's not quite enough it's's just not. It doesn't feel like enough. But the irony is, I really think KD, Kyrie, and AD was in how it played out. And it kind of redistributed the reward for tanking because it's no longer in a team's best interest to just be fucking horrible, you know, to go 13 and 69, because it's not going to guarantee you anything.

But what it does do is a situation like what we had last year with the Pelicans or the Lakers, where it's like, Hey, we're not going to make the playoffs. Let's start shutting guys down. And you have Anthony Davis basically sitting out from after the all-star break and playing spotty minutes, whatever, or LeBron shutting it down two and a half weeks to go in the season, things like that. All this lottery did was make sure that's going to happen from now on. It's like either not only we're not making the playoffs, fuck this, let's start shutting dudes down, but even whether it's worth it to go for the eighth seed or not. Was it worth it with these new lottery rules for Orlando to make this huge push just to get crushed by Toronto in five

in round one versus if they had landed in the eighth or ninth spot, they actually could have gotten the top three pick. I think that's the new danger now with the tanking. So the interesting thing with that will be, you know, we only get these once-in-a-generational kind of players, reputation-wise, like once every six years or so. Yeah, six, seven. Seven years. So that's like the cycle time because most of the time the incentive is not there to miss out on the great benefits of making the playoffs. See, I think it made sense for Orlando to make the playoffs

just to remind that fan base, to revitalize that fan base. Like, hey, this is a major league thing. We accomplished something. The second best team in the Eastern Conference is coming down here and playing games against us. You get to see Kawhi in Orlando in the playoffs. They won a game. So, like, I still think it's beneficial and and uh in addition to

the to the young players on orlando like there's no uh comparison for playoff stress for playoff performance you you can't muster you can't replicate it during the regular season so seeing who who's up to that moment and who can kind of rise and distinguish themselves, that's still valuable. So I still think going for the eighth seed has value. It's desirable for franchises on the brink. The only time the concern that you've identified comes into play is when a player like Zion is out there,

and then it's like, hmm, maybe, you know. Because if you're nine or 10, you still have a pretty reasonable shot at, you know, pulling out something in the lottery. Yeah, I think we're both right. I'm with you on, I like when my players are in the play out, especially when I have a younger team. I like having those guys get a feel for the playoffs

and the intensity and just what changes and what's different. Rosella was talking about it Sunday night about how dramatic the difference is now between the regular season and the playoffs. Not that it wasn't before, but it just feels more dramatic than it ever was. And there's clearly a level that it goes up.

And it's good for you to get a taste of that, I think. But on the other hand, I think when Zion's available and we've just established that you can go from 11 to four, eight to one and all the other stuff that happened. You got to think about it. I have one last draft ladder thing for your house. Let me hear it. I like taco. I would, I would take a late first round flyer on taco.

I don't think he's a first rounder. I think he's going to go like mid second round, but I've been thinking a lot about what, what we've watched, especially in these game sevens and how there's just only certain types of players that could even be out there. And it's like, I just feel like he could have played in that Sixers game.

He could have gone in for Embiid for like eight minutes, you know? Man. Just stick it, just Taco, go in there and stick your arms up and try not to bump into anybody for five minutes. I would just so rather- They had that guy. Yeah. His name was Boban.

Yeah, but I think Taco is- They have that guy. I think he's Boban 2.0. That's my take. Well, there's a role for that guy in the league, and especially if Taco has a personality that's one-tenth as... As exciting as Boban, yeah. As exciting and...

I mean, what a great human Boban is. I know. He's a man of the people. He's in John Wick. He's a man of the people. He's in John Wick. He's a terrific actor. He's a terrific ambassador of the game. Speaking of John Wick,

we did a rewatch of us about John Wick 2 this week, and Shay has a John Wick podcast, if the people out there like the John Wick stuff. I just, I feel like Taco could be in a 10-man rotation. It's not unrealistic to me. Okay. After pick 20, I just want guys who I think could be in a rotation potentially. I like him. I liked what I saw from him in that college game.

He tries hard. Russell and I talked about this Sunday night. I just want guys who try hard after pick 20. Because you saw it in game seven. If you're not like balls to the wall, laying it out, you're not playing. You're just on the bench. And when I need you the most, I can't have you out there. So even like somebody like Austin Rivers, who's been a pain in the ass and has switched

team seven times, like that guy fucking tries, you know? And that's why the Rockets had to keep playing him during the court set series. Quickly, we got to go. PGA, we saw to go PGA. We, we saw one round Brooks talked a lot of shit before this tournament. Brooks had the, they asked him if it's easier to win a major or a regular tournament. He was like,

it's absolutely easier to win a major. He laid out all the ratios, kind of incredible Brooks having a heat check. And then he goes out and he shoots what a 63, 64 to the 64. Oh, 63. I'm sorry. brooks having a heat check and then he goes out and he shoots what a 63 64 today 64 oh 63 i'm sorry 63 you're right seven under 63 on beth page black which is not easy well that the the the over under prop for the week on best score of the week was 64 and a half and he went out shot 63 take that for data seriously yeah that was to take that for data so we we liked we bet on tommy fleetwood and john

rom tommy fleetwood was 28 to 1 john rom was uh 18 to 1 two of our favorites we always seem to have money on them at every major they haven't won won yet, but when it happens, it's going to be like we're related to them. It's going to be like when Nathan Hubbard's brother won the web.com thing. But looking at the odds, who do you like? Anything you saw in that round one, you're thinking like, this person, watch out, because you know somebody's going to ass tomorrow so who could that be well one encouraging thing was dustin johnson didn't drive the ball very well today and uh his irons were not particularly sharp and he still shot one under now that has him six shots behind brooks but he had probably like a c plus game and is still inside the top 10 right now and that so and and he's obviously

got all of the attributes that you need at beth page so if there's any kind of stumble whatsoever out of brooks and you'll recall brooks also led the masters he shot six under at the masters yeah and then had a couple days of you know kind of a round par performances and then and that let other guys go out and shoot low and catch up to him and it became like a you know uh kind of a four guy race five guy race coming into that sunday well um dj's 10 to 1 right now kapka is plus 120 fleetwood's 10 to 1 jason day Day, 18-1. Fowler, 18-1. Our boy, Jon Rahm, is 25-1. Tiger.

Oh, it might be time to sprinkle a little extra on Jon Rahm. DJ at 10-1 is pretty enticing. Because that course is kind of made for him. They're the same odds as what he started with before he played around. I know, but I kind of wanted to see it from him. By the way, hasn't he been the best player on the tour this year so far? Isn't he number one ranked? He's the number one ranked player in the world according to the official World Golf rankings.

Rory McIlroy is the best player in the world for this season. He's won in a couple different places worldwide. He's also at the top of all the statistical categories. The only time that he's finished outside the top 10 in any event he's played this year was at the Masters. And that's because the Masters is in his head. But yeah, Dustin's the number one ranked player of the world because they they measure that over kind of a two-year performance span i like the 10 i like the 10 to 1 for him it's it's a it's it's the same as what you could have got before today happened i know but he he but the leader shot a 63 and won two two majors last year and he's still 10-1. So that tells me Vegas is at least respecting him properly.

Yeah, that makes sense. What's your favorite Bethpage Black Hole? Wow, that's a great question. It's stupid. I really love 18. I just think you tee up. I've played it. I played it a couple years ago.

I played it with a bunch of Holy Cross boys our boy Finney Jim Finn hooked it up and you know we had a spectacular day we played Bethpage Black and then we went to Lugers how about that you come out to the east coast we're going to run this back with Finney Finney is like the mayor of Lugers

I'm not kidding you you wouldn't believe when Jim Finn walks into Peter Lugers everybody in the place turns and is like Finney! lugers i'm not kidding you you wouldn't believe when jim finn walks into peter lugers oh everybody in the place turns is like finney like he's been you know like he's there three you know six days a week and twice on sundays yeah but that's what that's what he was like at every holy cross party too maybe that's just what he's like it's it's just what he's like everybody loves finney how can you maybe he should be the president maybe get Maybe we get rid of Biden and all these other dudes that can't beat Trump or just elect Finney.

What are his credentials? Well, when he walks in a room, everybody yells Finney. That's what we got. That is a pretty good credential. Yeah. Do you think that's ever happened with Biden or Trump? Do you think they've ever walked into a bar and everybody turned and was like, Trumpy! Trumpy!

Daddy! Get the fuck out of here. No way. No chance. I wonder what derisive nickname. So I like 18. I wonder what derisive nickname Trump would have given Finney. I mean, I can't come up with Finney's money.

No credentials, Finney. I don't know. Sleepy Creepy Joe, he really peaked with that one. It was on the money. No credentials, Finney. I don't know. Sleepy Creepy Joe was really, he really peaked with that one. It was on the money. House, enjoy the PGA. Enjoy the first week of being 50 and enjoy being drunk

for the rest of this year. We'll talk to you. Oh, and don't forget about your pot. Plug your podcast really quick. Yeah, fairway roll and Sunday recap. We will be on as soon as a champion has been declared at beth page black uh we'll give our immediate reaction and and uh hyperbole and you know

where does this fit in history and all the rest of it doesn't seem like it's going to be tiger but it does seem like it's going to be something pretty good well i'm available for a 10 minute hit on that if you need me hey now you're on're on. That's it. You're in. I'll call you Sunday evening. I already told my wife. I was like, I'm watching sports all weekend. She's like, well, how's that different than in the weekend? I was like, I'm just laying it out here now. I don't want you to be surprised. I love the PGA. I want Bethpage Black. There's basketball. Like this is just what's going to happen this weekend. I'm sorry. House, always a pleasure. Talk to you soon. Hey, let's take a break to talk about GOAT, the global destination for authentic sneakers,

ranging from general releases to rare exclusives and everything in between. More importantly, one of my son's favorite apps. I can't wait to tell him and nephew Kyle. Anytime you can get the nephew Kyle, Ben Simmons Venn diagram, you know you've won. They have thousands of styles from the past and present. They even have shoes that have yet to be released. All are guaranteed authentic by GOAT. They work only with trusted sellers

and inspect every detail before any shoe is sold. From the stitching and color to the size and weight, they ensure every shoe matches exact factory specs with over 15 million users around the world buying and selling verified shoes every day at GOAT.

You'll find exactly what you want at the best price possible. This is an amazing app. This is one of those apps that you go on and 35 minutes later, you're still searching for size 11 Air Jordans. There's so many options. There's prices. God, they just rope you in. For this month only, get free shipping at GOAT.com. Yeah. There's so many options. There's prices. God, they just rope you in. For this month only, get free shipping at goat.com slash BS.

Goat.com slash BS for free shipping until the end of the month. And if you're a shoe junkie or a wannabe shoe junkie or you love shoes and you love the sneaks, I can't recommend Goat highly enough. Plus, you'll be supporting the show. G-O-A-T dot com slash B-S. Coming up right now, as promised, the one, the only, Zane Lowe. So every once in a while, I have people in my life

that I always know they're going to come on the podcast, but then we never actually schedule it. So this guy's been in my life for a while because our sons are very close and finally the time came because game of thrones is ending this weekend and zane lowe is like let's finally do it and then we can also talk about thrones which is what you really care about it's your passion right now that's all i care about but it was getting a little awkward because you reached out to me at the end of last year was like come on the podcast i was like hell yeah I was excited obviously and then it was like Christmas break

and then it just didn't really happen you go away you like disappear you know let's be really clear like you you came to me was like come on the podcast and you know first of all Ben got Lucci to ask if I come to your podcast which I thought was sweet right so you used your son to get to me that was very sweet and I thought it was your podcast, which I thought was sweet. Right, right, right. So he used your son to get to me. I thought it was very sweet. It was a nice way to reach out to me. I thought it was a good gesture. And then Carrie was like, hey, Bill. I was like, cool. Now he's going through the wife.

This is a nice thing. We're dancing around each other. The friendship will get there in the end, you know? And then we finally- It was a courting. It was a courting process, but then you didn't call for like months. And then I eventually, and this is the truth, people, was I just invited myself to the red wedding.

But it was going to happen, but now I'm glad we're finally doing it. Yeah, you just manipulated me. Because sometimes like- You manipulated me so that I eventually asked myself to go on your podcast. You're such an alpha. Job done. Well, I had these people in my life that I'm like, there's going to be a week and it'll be the perfect week to do it.

But like when basketball and then football and then it's like, but now we're here. We're here. Thrones, nothing's more important. And we're going to talk about it at the tail end of this podcast. So if you haven't caught up on Thrones out there, we won't spoil it for you because we're saving it. But then we're going to go in. But what about these people that, and I know

we're going to save all the good stuff for the end, but what about all these people who decide to watch in the last... On their terms. Yeah, like, oh, it's the final season. I'll watch it all in three days. It just annoys me. You're just being disrespectful to the process. We all had to wait and now you're just coming in

and hitting the on-demand. It's going like VOD, just like it's easy. And this thing hasn't been easy. And I was late. I was not as early as my wife. I was probably halfway through. I can't even lie. I came in pretty late,

but not as late as these people who are annoying me right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I always feel bad because I remember I spoiled one show a few weeks after it was over. Right. And I was like, you know,

if you haven't watched it now, that's not my fault. But then I got a couple emails from people who were serving our country overseas. It was like, hey, dude, I love your podcast and I'm not able to watch the show yet. That's actually a good point.

So now I stack it at the end. I'm always looking out. Shout out to the troops. 100%. All right, so let's go with your background. First of all, you're the pride of New Zealand or is it Stephen Adams? Stephen Adams. I mean, there's no one.

Well, it's like, first of all, it's the prime minister who's been just doing an incredible job lately. And then it's probably Neil Finn still. Really? Neil Finn's holding on. Oh, dude. I mean, you know. Don't dream it's over, man's probably neil finn still like really holding on oh dude i mean you know don't dream it's over man if you write a song like that you know it is a classic take a seat at the table and then steven adams i'm probably ranking in about fifth or sixth i reckon that's solid i'm good you're at the table i'm happy we talked about steven adams a couple

weeks ago after oklahoma city got knocked Long story short, they have a very complicated roster where they have a lot of expensive salaries. So I theorized, hey, if they want to shake things up, like Steven Adams is somebody they could trade. It became a national story in New Zealand for like two days. It was like American pundit thinks OKC should trade Adams. And you know, you carry on down that road, eventually John Oliver will pick up on the fact

that Bill Simmons is now being villainized in New Zealand and then that will become a part of like you know this week tonight or whatever yeah

because he loves talking about New Zealand John Oliver that's like one of his favorite things in the world is it really yeah in a good way

or a bad way look everything John Oliver does even when he's being somewhat you know dismissive if it's done in that way

can be a good thing. It's a good thing. He loves New Zealand. Well, my feeling was the people of New Zealand, the good people, they weren't mad at me. They were more hurt and alarmed that Stephen Adams could be traded. And I don't even think they fully understand the concept of a trade. It's just like he's going to be fine.

He still gets to make his money. He's just on a different team. No, but you are too long in the tooth when it comes to your experience in sports i know that this is the world's most listened to sports podcast yeah and you know how sensitive the word trade is for people especially when he's the only representative playing in the nba on a team like that you know stephen adams is a national treasure you start throwing the word trade around i mean what are we talking about here? It's insulting. It's almost Fernando Fever.

Right, right. He's really been my only exposure to New Zealand from a sports standpoint. And all the stories were like- What, no rugby? No, I don't watch that stuff. But when they write about him, it's like, he's got his 17 brothers and sisters.

And he's a crazy person. So I just have no feel for New Zealand. First of all. Glad to be of service. Let's get into it. Let's do it quickly. New Zealand versus Australia. Everything is good.

It's good? Unless they try and take credit for things that ultimately we've given birth to, like people, which they've been known to do. Or there's a game on. or there's a game on, if there's a game on it's all out, it's all out. I mean, you know, the rivalry situation, it's like, if there's something happening where there's a, there's a, you know, a yellow rugby team and a, and a all black rugby team playing it's it's forget about it. So rugby is when it gets ugly, rugby, cricket, um, drinking all the sports. Who is the Canada and who is the America in this situation?

Oh, wow. That's such a loaded question. Can we save that one to the end? No, I want to know. Who's Canada? We'll be Canada. Who's the, are you the friendlier, but deep down, you don't want to mess with you?

I will say this about Australia. And I mean this with a genuine amount of respect. Australia has, and you'll recognize this, they have an incredible culture of winning. Australia is like America in the sense that, and this is where the comparison can be true, there's a sense of like when I run onto the field, even if I'm not the best team on the day,

my whole sense of self-belief and my manifestation of destiny is going to potentially cause an upset. I've seen Australians run onto varying sporting events and by no means be match ready and win the game. They have a culture of winning. We have that when it comes to certain sports. We have that in other areas of life, but dude, Australians are ferocious competitors. Can you tell the difference in accents or is it similar? Yeah, totally. O ours is way better yours is better of

course theirs is crazier it's just it's a little hard on certain consonants you know for america like pop culture and stuff australia had a big lead in the 80s and 90s we were talking about like nxs and things like that yeah men at work was a huge yeah i think because this is what australia does very well when it comes to music is uh they they take the banal they take the normality of suburbia and they paint a very romantic picture out of it. You know, went down the street,

got a pint of milk, you know, went down to the pub, smashed some pints and talked over life. That girl got away. You know, it's very, they paint it in a beautiful way with these great songs.

And, and so, you know, they, they take suburban life and they, they, they dress it up good. And so, you know, they take suburban life and they dress it up good. Whereas Crowded House is going like, don't fucking dream it's over yet. Don't dream it over.

Yeah. I'm still here. Yeah. I'm still number two at the table right now behind the prime minister. What was, there was the other song, Whenever I Fall at Your Feet. Oh, that's classic. It's called Fall at Your Feet, right? Yeah, Fall at Your Feet.

That's like one of the best three and a half minute love songs love songs yeah i was always trying to get my daughter to sing that one because i always try to make her sings 80s i always got an incredible she had decent voice but i was like i'm like go backwards there's so many good songs that nobody has you know those guys were great oh my god it's crazy i may or may not have seen them in person in 1987. I saw multiple shows. But, I mean, they were a special band. And for a long time, most artists will ride a wave. And like great surfers, to use the analogy,

some people like Kelly Slater can still ride the wave decades on. A lot of times, you get a window where you're at your most productive and creative and you just tap into something special. And I feel like Crowded House for a few years there were just kind of like the bar for songwriters. And actually, as I've gone on in my life, speaking to other songwriters who I admire, you mentioned you're from New Zealand.

They just want to talk about Neil Finn. Really? And Paul Hester, rest his soul. And the whole band was just very respected in the craft of songwriting for sure. I feel that way about the One Oasis album. The first or second one? The second one.

Classic. Like I think Wonderwall, I was listening to that. I have these different playlists that I make and some of them are the years because I like going back to the year because it brings me back to wherever it was in my life and the songs and what they mean. And I think Wonderwall was maybe, it was 95 or 96. Yeah. But that song just beginning, middle, and end is like kind of perfect.

Dude, it's perfect. It's actually perfect. It's got to be one of the best five songs anyone's ever written and executed. I mean, it's definitely in the top 10 greatest songs ever to come out of the United Kingdom, which is like that's lofty in itself so you know you you know you're bringing zeppelin and the beatles and right floyd and all sorts of people into that equation i think no gallagher wrote that one he got that one in and i think that album itself start to finish is pretty phenomenal you talk about champagne supernova yeah you talk about cast no shadow that song is massive like that is a huge like emotional great

moment like that's the sound of a band that they're just absolute confident peak, you know, where they just know they've got the world's attention and Noel's just like, wow, I've dreamt of this moment and I don't want to let it go. So I'm just going to write 12 bangers. He just wrote like the most amazing album start to finish. And that was their wave.

Right. And they've had a few albums ever since. And I've gotten into trouble with Noel in the past for, you know, drawing comparison of previous Oasis albums to contemporary oasis i've doesn't like that game but they're broken up now so it is what it is i mean they're definitely those first two two albums were with their creative peak did you do you used to do these uh you break down albums on your old show yeah masterpieces yeah yeah and that was kind of like the first it was someone asked me the other day if that's coming back i was like in the streaming era i'm not sure that's really

relevant anymore you know no actually it was like a podcast series before we had podcast series you know like but i was i never even knew you were doing that until somebody told me about it way after well it was because like there was all this conversation about um you know songs becoming the priority and itunes was well and truly in the swing of being like the revolutionary distribution model that it really ultimately has been and is still um and you know there was always conversation about albums and where they still mattered and i have a very simple philosophy about that which is as long as album artists want to make albums albums will matter right it's like how we consume it's up to us now but artists still want to go into the studio and

make a body of work no artist and i said this the other day, ever says, I'm in a very emotional place. I need to say something. It's a form of therapy. I can't wait to spend six hours making a song. They're like, I want to spend six weeks making an album. I want to get this out in a process. And so that process matters. And at the time, this conversation was like albums, albums, do they matter?

So we just decided to play them. And we just thought it would be a cool way to kill some time on radio one and then it became this really big deal where people all over the world used it as a chance to um sort of meet at one time and share stories and rethink what they thought of the album yeah listen to each other's point of view and it was cool and social media really helped and it just was a really nice little window. And ideas are good for the time that they're good. And then you move on to the next one. Did you do the Oasis album?

You must have, right? We did the first album. And the reason we did the first album, even though I prefer the second one, is because if you live in the UK, it's definitely maybe. That's the... Right.

You could get yourself into some trouble over a few pints if you really really try to vouch for what's the story of it definitely maybe really oh without a shadow of a doubt i really like both of them i don't know it's great but i feel like they complement each other but from from an american point of view you know i think living out here this was when what's the story was the album that really connected oasis to america and it became this kind of real moment for them but But in the UK, Rock and Roll Star, Supersonic, Don't Look Back in Anger, these are big.

That was the second album maybe. I don't know, whatever. They were big songs on the first album. And that is a real blueprint record if you grew up in the UK at that time. You go and see Liam Gallagher perform solo or Noel perform with his band and they'll play those songs. And it's,

everyone just goes back 20 years. It's such a bummer that they had, that they fell out like they did. They did a documentary about it. And I didn't feel like it never quite got there. It didn't get there because they didn't cover it. They stopped at the end of like the, the glory,

the best time. They deliberately cut it short at that moment in time meanwhile what i wanted was i wanted the fight what the fuck happened yeah i wanted the fist fight no yeah i i for me i just felt like as a fan and anyone who was really following the band at the time i just felt like they were on they were on a fine line for quite a while i just didn't feel like that they were running on all cylinders for quite some time. And there was always a hint that the next fight could be the last one. So I, I just didn't feel surprised.

Everyone I knew wasn't shocked at all when they broke up. It's one of my favorite subjects. Oh, is this? No, just when bands break up. Right. One of my favorite documentaries ever was the history of the Eagles part

one. And part one is so good. Is that the one where he's like, he broke his worst, his cheapest guitar. Yeah, his cheapest guitar. His cheapest guitar. Don Henley's just so smarmy the whole time. I wrote a whole like 6,000 word piece at Grantland about how much I love this doc. It's amazing.

And I was just so fascinated by so many elements of it like how fame you know when somebody just becomes so famous that it actually is going to become detrimental like you can't survive it which is what happened to them the alpha dog battle how Henley like slowly took control of the band especially then because they were like

literally they were adventurers they were marking you territory with every step they took no one had reached that level and people forget that now because you know it's such a big deal you know and you can reach it so quickly in social media and it's just such a direct line of communication and relationship between artist and fan but back then man i mean it was you were they were playing like a hundred thousand cedar like rose bowls and right unheard of i'm so jealous of the people now because like when i was growing up i turned 50 this year when i was growing up and you could start buying cds and

stuff like 82 83 and i'm like oh cool cds are so much better than cassettes let's get these and i only had like basically 16 17 years of music to draw from you know like basically the doors was about as far back as i wanted to go there was just wasn't a lot of music for what i liked and then over the next you know that decade things really took off and music was so much fun but now i look at the people you come in in 2019 first of all you have 30 plus years of hip-hop yeah and have hip-hop in 1982 so good i mean grown-up hip-hop is just the best hip-hop i mean now you can actually trace it from from infancy to adolescence to like maturity and now literally

jay-z putting out that 444 album which is like it's like a bob dylan blood on the track marvin gaye here my dear like he's he went out and made an album that was a mature hip-hop record that really didn't even chase down a hit single it was just like i have to make this yeah and hip-hop maybe it might be the first time it's ever been done to that degree where it wasn't about a single driven experience and that's just a reflection of you know hip-hop now as a as a as a culture and the rappers and music going you know we're grossed up like it's like jay-z's like a grown human being it's an appropriate album for someone at that stage of his life being through what he and his wife went through to make.

So why not make it? It was the best. I loved that album so much. Springsteen's had a couple like that too. Yeah. You know, he did, I always thought Tunnel of Love was his most fascinating album where he was like, I fell in love and it didn't work out.

And I just wrote 12 songs about it. Because I don't have to chase any success because I've been more than validated in the environment. So now it's just about the craft. And I think that's really where rap is now. Let's just be very clear. It's the single most exciting genre of music. By far.

It's the most honest, the most visceral. It captures the moment. It tells the truth. It's the best. I really wonder what happens with rock. Because you think like, you know, I remember when rock had a real revival in alternative rock in 02, 03, 04 when the White Stripes had their album

and the Killers and the Strokes. And it just was really felt like, oh, shit, cool, this is happening. And it lasted maybe five years yeah and then you know what they called it in the uk when bands came out with second and third albums they called this is the worst term ever and i mean basically the person who invented this term and probably published it for the first time i would imagine it was probably in the nma called it an indie landfill and if you come up with the term indie landfill like it's over like it's over you can make the greatest album of all time it's going in the landfill well it's funny how none of them hey you can make a case and i

don't even know coldplay is not really a rock band but you can make the case coldplay is the last new huge rock band well acting monkeys i think definitely i mean they're not they're not levels of coldplay big like stadiums and stuff like that. But how many bands who came out this century could fill football stadiums everywhere? That's a good question. I mean, obviously Coldplay can do it. Football stadiums. Because you're talking football stadium big.

It just doesn't seem to happen anymore. I'm just trying to think who's playing football stadiums now. Ed Sheeran's playing football stadiums.. It's Sharon's playing football stadiums. Taylor Swift plays football stadiums. Jay-Z, Eminem. Eminem. Yeah. It's Sharon is probably because he came out after Taylor. He's probably the most contemporary artist going straight into stadiums.

I mean, if you want to talk about sort of market share versus margin, that guy is like, dude, one guy and a guitar. Come on, are you kidding me? That's amazing. That's why I always stand. I think The Police was the greatest rock band of all time because there's only three people. It's like just degree of difficulty. And also they were three.

I know, I know. But then they sure made a meal out of being three people in a band. I mean, talk about like really, there's only three of you. It's much harder when you're Fleetwood Mac and there's 10 of you. Like all of a sudden, like there's three of you and you can't get along. Are you kidding? There's three of you. Three of you and you hate each other like almost immediately.

Well, that's one of the best stories ever told. Oh, yeah. It'll never be told either. No, no. Not to the degree I probably should. But it was, yeah. I mean, the music that came out was, I mean, and fair play to them.

They got out of their own way. They realized for those five, six albums, like this is special, even though I can't stand looking at you. Right. There was, so apparently, I never knew about this until recently, but they had this thing called the Us Festival

in California in San Bernardino, which is so weird. I saw footage of that. And it was like 200 000 people right so that channel access was running a whole bunch of stuff from it and the police were there in like 1982 so they're at like their apex yeah and it's just the three of them and there's 300 000 people and i'm like this is amazing you know and they're like owning owning the stage but i didn't i was in you know on the east coast like owning the stage, but I didn't, I was in, you know, on the East Coast.

I didn't even know this festival was happening. It was all the people I loved when I was growing up. Let's take a break to talk about ZipRecruiter. You've heard me talk about this on the pod, having a high sports IQ, very important. Having a high music IQ, obviously very important as we're finding out with our friend Zane Lowe right now. When it comes to hiring, you don't need a high hiring out with our friend Zane Lowe right now.

When it comes to hiring, you don't need a high hiring IQ. You need ZipRecruiter. ZipRecruiter, the Zane Lowe of hiring. Powerful technology scans thousands of resumes to find people with the right experience for your job. The tech doesn't stop there either. It even learns what kind of candidates you like and invites more to apply. It is so effective. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate through the site within the first day. How's that possible? My listeners, as you know, and you're a listener, can try it for free. Go to ZipRecruiter.com slash BS. That

is ZipRecruiter.com slash BS. That is ziprecruiter.com slash BS. ZipRecruiter, as always, the smartest way to hire. You mentioned 10 years ago you thought albums were dying then. Well, other people did. I've always tried to kind of hold the line, but it's definitely a debate.

People get quite wound up by it. So where do we stand in 2019? It's still fine. I mean, like I said, I just want to make them. I think really in a way, being in streaming now allows people to pick and choose. It's like, okay, I'm going to take that song, add it to a playlist. Because context is cool.

Like, you know, you make playlists. Context was always cool. Making mixtapes was always cool. Love mixtapes. And so it was always about like, can I make a song sound even better by putting something left and right or creating a little bit of space or putting a bit of mood music after the fact or how do i create kind of if you really are like full nerdery like we are you know but you know so so really ultimately now being a situation where there's so much more context to place around individual songs actually leaves the album to its own devices it's like just leave the album

alone like stop talking about the album being dead without the album you don't have the original context stop complaining go and create your own context but just let the artist make the album and stop whinging about it because you know chances are you will listen to at least five albums start to finish a year if you're a music fan even if you think albums are dying you'll still listen to five albums a year because you know there'll be five albums that you'll be just purely fascinated by you can't sit there and tell me you didn't listen to five albums a year because there will be five albums that you'll be just purely fascinated by. You can't sit there and tell me you didn't listen to Damn by Kendrick Lamar start to finish because it deserved your attention. So if there's one album that deserved your attention, let everyone else have a crack at it.

And if you don't like that album, just take the three songs you do like and make something new. I think things are better now and I don't want to sound like the old guy on the couch. I do. I'm having the best time as a fan ever. I just remember, especially in the 80s, and CDs were like 16 bucks. Yeah. And you had this thing where my buddy Jim Grady and I, we always had this rule. One of my best friends from high school. It'd be like, one song I'm not buying the CD.

Two songs, maybe, depending on what kind of mood I'm in and what's in my wallet. Three, definitely. Because if there's three that I already know are good, there's probably going to be two more like, and two is kind of the over under for, eh. And then you'd have the panic, oh, I like that one song and you'd get it and there was just no other songs on it.

Yeah. And now you can just download it. And it was a hell of an investment. And then iTunes came in and I remember the uproar when iTunes came in. So many people who were into the album as an art form were like, how dare you, you know, give people a chance to circumnavigate the process but it was great it saved it saved everybody i mean think about the timing of it

and i always love this story because it's just it's just such a beautiful timeline so the music industry is so bloated at this point everybody knows it from fans through to everyone even in the industry it's just not working music is overpriced there's too much of it the record stores are holding all the cards as to what gets featured and what doesn't. The record stores and the record labels are all just prioritizing whatever they think is going to move their margin and blah, blah, blah, right? Classic case of business overbloated scenario. So you get to the end of the millennium and I think NSYNC put out that album, right? And it sold over 2 million copies in America alone in its first week. I mean, that is just ridiculous

for the music industry. That is just like happy days, right? That was like mid-December 1999, mid-January 2000, Napster starts. It's literally like, congratulations, you've got three weeks to celebrate. Then we're going to start destroying your entire industry. We're literally going to start the decimation process. Yeah. So, I mean, you know, and then that was like doomsday. And then iTunes came along and sort of bought, like built this, what I consider to be. I mean, I never felt like iTunes was a place to go and dive into the culture of music. But as far as distribution and a store was concerned in the way that it actually, you know, bought the idea of what the internet could do for music and that distribution into the modern age and linked it to the iPod. I just think it's like a superhuman feat.

That is one of the greatest inventions in technology history. And it saved the music business. And ultimately, we all benefited from it and loved it for so long. And now we're in the streaming age. And I think as a music fan, I really feel like it's the best time ever because I'll be in my car and i'll remember that i've always wanted to listen to an album or dive into an artist or you know i've never really given jackson brown much time you know i mean let me dive in on

you know fan favorite jackson brown deep cuts playlist or whatever and see if i like it and you just can't yeah i remember like oh four i started oh three or oh four with with apple the discovery factor and i just like watch sports and just search for songs and it was so much fun because up until that point it was basically like rolling stone spin yeah those those kind of magazines or a friend telling me yeah or i'm watching m. Like the way we found music was so dumb. And then it's like, oh, I'm actually in control of the process now. I can look for my own songs. I was like, this is incredible.

I mean, try growing up in Auckland, New Zealand, not even having MTV. I mean, I remember our friends would send us videotape, like knockoffs of like Yo! MTV raps. And we'd just sit there and sort of watch Dr. Dre and Ed Lover tell us about Black Sheep or Pete Rock and CL Smooth or house parties with Dre and Eazy- there and sort of watch dr dre and ed lover tell us about black sheep or pete rock and seal smooth or house parties with dre and easy and fab five freddy you've seen the footage of now on defiant ones and stuff back then we were just minds blown like what is this you know and then you go into the local record store and you go into the rap section and the

imports and spend every cent you had what's this what's that yeah just bought it on the basis of the artwork it was kind of cool and romantic in a way, but I'm long past, you know, like harking for that time. Like I'd much rather go to my phone and just dive in and just have this limitless experience. I can't tell you how many songs I've found. People talk college. Yeah, it's valuable because you get an education.

You learn how to like live on your own. The music is the underrated part of college where you're just walking by somebody's room. You're like, what's valuable because you get an education. You learn how to live on your own. The music is the underrated part of college, where you're just walking by somebody's room. You're like, what's that? What are you playing? Oh, I'm doing that. Oh, what? And I'm sure that still happens, which is great.

But I found so much music just from my friends in college. Well, I mean, that's such a golden time in your life, right? Because that's when you're so open to finding people who share this kind of common interest that you have and what are the things that you throw out there you know you throw out what's on the back of your letterman jacket or your sports jacket you know you put a t-shirt on that tells you what you listen to or you make sure that your headphones are just slightly off your ear when you're in the lecture so they can hear what you're listening to what did you do all this yeah all those guys into this right now all those little tricks that you

used to do because you'd sit next to someone you thought was cool and you kind of figured that they were into the same things that you were, but you didn't know how to bring up the conversation. So you just make sure that your Sony headphones pre-beat will be slightly off your ear because then the sound would bleed through. And next thing you know, and it isn't like courting friends. Someone nudges you and goes, yo, is that Nirvana? You go, yeah, I love this band.

Then bam, friendship formed. Right. You're away. You're off to the races, right? And that's just like an amazing, in a way, I suppose, what I've been trying to do my whole life is just hold on to that feeling of like wanting to just meet people through my passions. Oh, yeah.

I'm having that experience right now. My buddy House, one of my best friends in college, freshman year, he was listening to Nirvana Bleach. It was early. He was listening to Nirvana Bleach. It was early. And he was listening to Fugazi. Oh, yeah. And all this. And we made fun of him all the time.

He had like purple hair. What was wrong with you? And we were like, what the fuck is this music? What was wrong with you? Why aren't you listening to U2? You know, I was thinking, what was your buddy's name again? John House. He was way ahead of his time.

You know what, bro? He was in the DC punk scene, like all that stuff. Well, speaking to an erstwhile colleague to this day he was absolutely right and you guys were dicks well so that's the thing so senior year Nirvana takes off and you were just

those guys the fucking guys from Bleach these are the biggest band in the world what's happening I just wanted to see you guys try to sidle up like yo just

Nirvana was pretty cool we did a 180 really quickly we're like this is right this is fucking awesome that happened to me with a lot of stuff like I remember

to this day I've still got friends who talk about the moment that you know things like public enemy landed because to them they just didn't understand like why are you listening to yo bum rush the show and this music it's like from new york and we're listening to like the cure and other stuff and i'm like it just i don't see a difference between the two like the cure moves me this moves me that moves me and and i And I remember when Nirvana happened and it was like we were at a sort of camping site for New Year's Eve where you just go to a certain point in your life and just kind of spend three or four days singing New Year and you hang out with your friends. And I suppose you try to make new friends, blah, blah, blah, usual story, kind of a rite of passage. And we were down there and I had a copy of Nirvana, Nevermind, on cassette. And I just remember like every time I played it, someone would come and ask if they could borrow it. And then I was like, look, I don't want to give this tape up, but you can go make a copy of Nirvana Nevermind on cassette. And I just remember like every time I played it, someone would come and ask if they could borrow it.

And then I was like, look, I don't want to give this tape up, but you can go make a copy of it and then you can share it. So everyone just shared it. And so, and this is no exaggeration, Bill, like within three days you couldn't walk in between a sort of tent or an environment where people were gathered, where they were drinking beer and putting, you know, around a fire and a chili bin where they weren't listening to that album and that's when i and i told this to john who was

their manager who's a friend of mine now i said bro i bootlegged the shit out of that album that christmas but you know what i learned is that you know even before the world had realized like i saw in a microcosm what was going to happen globally and that's really the first time i saw a hit in front of my eyes like something i just went if this is happening in this tiny tiny little corner of the world yeah for three days it's gonna happen crazy so when did you know you were into music for good as like a profession i mean as a profession probably then like weirdly that's when i sort of saw the value and taste and the value and sharing and how it felt to have bought something to even a group of 100 200 people and seeing that that it had impact yeah and i was like oh that's cool i

kind of did that even though i didn't make the music put the record out make it happen i was the one to introduce people to it and i just liked how that felt where are you living at this point you're still in new zealand i was just in a. I mean, I was just trying to be a rapper and make music and make beats. You tried to be a rapper? Oh, dude, we had – yeah, we made albums and I produced rap records. I produced – like I'm not even going to like lie about it. I produced a song for a guy called Damn Native, a group I should say called Damn Native, which is still considered amongst people who poll these kind of things

as one of, if not the greatest, New Zealand rap song ever. Really? Certainly the top three, yeah. It's called Behold My Cool Star. So this is how our sons are getting started. There's hope for them. You're very successful. Now I feel better about Ben Simmons.

Come on, you are 100% in the room with that. They never had a chance, bro. This is what we do. We're so narcissistic. We just think we're giving them an open opportunity to explore their lives. But really what we're doing is subliminally just driving them into our passions. Well, the key is- Isn't in their parenthood the key is your older

son because that he he's actually going to be a real guy i mean he's only in seventh grade but i'm just calling it now yeah but he already knows how to make beats and stuff yeah we played that we played the song as the entry music for this podcast i And the beats are like legitimately good. He's like, what is he? 12, 13, just turned 13.

Yeah. He's going to be, he'll, he'll, this is what he's going to do in life. I would predict, you know, the deal,

bro. You just, you just want, let's get to parenthood for a minute. Cause that's a big part of the pod too. Like you just, you want your kids to find, to ultimately find their,

their, their path. And even if it's the first path out of multiple that they'll go through life, you want them to at any stage in their life, and there's no race, but to find something that they genuinely connect to. Because it's such a search.

The whole thing is such a journey. At the end of the day, when it's all said and done and you're 99.9 and you die of old age and a peaceful life and it's all wonderful, you just think about the whole ride, right? You know, you think about what you've achieved. You achieved you'd just be like wow all the experiences were amazing and so i just really want them to kind of find those experiences and just keep searching for jackson i'm really happy and lucci's getting there too you know where they're just you know they're just dialed in

like lucci loves fashion and sports and rap and jackson just loves the music yeah i mean him and your son are like such a – and your whole gang, actually. It's indescribable. Their whole group of people, it's like they are the Stranger Things kids and it's just – they just really are. And it's funny watching them just gravitate towards one another and drive each other's passions and drive each other's interests

and each of them bring something unique to the table. So, you know. Well, we have the same – I think one of the reasons our kids get along so well is we have the same parenting kind of strategies, which is just like, just gravitate toward the things you care about. Just be a kid. We're not getting in your way. Just be a kid.

Just be a kid. I'm not forcing you to do anything. Do your thing. Just drive through life with a strong moral compass and learn the valuable lessons, and you have to relearn the ones that are kind of half valuable because we all have to learn those again and again and again and avoid having to learn the hard lessons more than once.

Yeah, with Ben, I think I have 60% chance he's living at home until he's 45. Yeah, but you know it's secretly you love that. Yeah, he's a fun hang. He's such a red dude. Even if that was the case, he'd be like, this is great. 40%. Yeah, he'd probably like, this is great. 40%. Yeah, he'd probably have some secret exit entrance to his bedroom and all that stuff.

40% chance things work out. He's a charisma troll on your kid, for sure. Is your younger son starting to lie yet, trying to pull off lies? He's been trying to pull that off for years. Because Ben's getting... So recently, Ben's upstairs. He calls... This is now a new episode of Parent Corner. Ben's upstairs. He calls, this is now a new episode of Parent Corner. Ben's upstairs.

He calls my wife. Mom, can you come up here for a second? Wait, on the phone or did he call down? No, yells down. Okay. Can you come up here for a second? He's standing at the top of the stairs. So she starts walking up the stairs and he kind of drops his phone.

It seems intentionally, but as he drops his phone, he goes, oh no. And he picks up the phone. It seems intentionally, but he drops his phone. He goes, oh, no. And he picks up the phone. It's like, oh, my God, the screen. But he's such a bad actor. It's like my wife sits like, wait a second. What's going on? And his screen's broken.

And it turns out, you know, she's like, did you break your phone before this? Hours ago. And his anytime he's really lying, his lower jaw starts moving around. He's like skirting? Yeah, sure. He's like, no, no, I didn't. I didn't break it. And his jaw's flying around. lying, his, his lower jaw starts moving around. Yeah. Sure. He's like, no, no, I didn't, I didn't break it. And his jaw's flying around.

So she's like, I know it. So he immediately breaks and he admits he was playing Fortnite on his phone, got killed and threw his phone. So now the screen breaks, but tried to pull off this elaborate drop the phone thing. But in three years, he's going to be really good at this. Like he's a bad liar now, but in three years he'll be a good really good at this yeah he's a bad liar now but in three years with enough practice you can you can conquer anything i it's not something i want my kids to practice you know from my point of view you know look okay this is where i have to kind of

throw myself up as the as a friend of mine said to me once when i became a parent he's like there's two kinds of dads you know there's the good dad and there's the dick dad. Now there's going to be times when you're going to be both, but just try to limit the amount of times you're a dick dad. He's the dick dad card. Yeah. And I had to be a bit of a dick. Sometimes you have to be a bit of a dick dad and just kind of go. And one of the areas that really drives me into an area where I, you know, I probably reach, you know, that level is the lying. Like, I don't know. I'm like that old school parent. Like if you lie to me, like that's's like, dude, like, dude. Yeah.

You can tell me anything and I'll navigate it with you. Like, I'm 100% beside you every step of the way throughout your life. When you need me, I'm here. But lie to me? Why the hell am I supposed to deal with that? What is the jump off here? Where is the common ground here? Like, you can see, you can hear the dickness coming out now,

just the way I'm talking to you. No, but this is the right instinct. I thousand percent agree. The good thing with our kids now is when they lie, we're gonna catch them yeah but you know my wife says and she's gonna kill me for saying this my wife is like just get better at it so between the two of us we're just we're the most beautiful loving mixed message crew of all time but do people expect your kids to be like music oriented kids because of what you do for a living because i know like with me people just assume my son's going to be

in all these different sports and stuff. But he's really – he likes baseball and that's it. He's really good at all of them though. But I don't know. Yeah, I mean probably quietly. It's not something that would volunteer to me too often. They're not going to be like, of course your son's into music. But they are into music.

So it's not like – it doesn't even really get to the awkward stage because the kids you know they're so open about their love of music and you know of course that you know we played a lot of it and i've always been very open about playing you know all kinds of music in the house so you know so that's just like that they sponge it up they just sponged it up but i mean they're taking it to places now that i certainly don't feel like i've had a hand and like i yeah i never once kind of thrust a computer under jackson's nose and said make beats you know and i never once said to lucci you know go and find me the next juice world but he's already

coming to me like hey check this kid out he's unpublished right you know like you should get on him early and get him into apple music and so they're thinking oh that's hilarious he's like an unpaid scout for you kind of yeah and so they're thinking in an invested way and i never really forced the investment on them i just kind of put the music in front of them but i really feel this you know i looked at jackson on the birthing table when he was born and he's exactly who he is to this day yeah like he's growing in a beautiful way. I'm proud of both of our kids, but his actual, the essence of who he is as a human being was right there on his face when he came out. Like I saw who he was as a human being. And so ultimately they sort of come out and then, you know, you want to, you want to guide them and be as supportive and as great a parent as

you possibly can, but equally to some degree, they're going to lean the way they're going to lean. Yeah, I agree with that. I think it's funny. You have the two sons, and I have the girl first and then the son, and the dynamic of that where they're just like this old married couple. And it's just hilarious. How is she around Ben?

Because obviously she must be super protective. Oh, they love each other. Yeah, I think it can go wrong the other way when you have the older son and the younger daughter and then the dynamics screwed up but the older daughter is always going to be paternal toward the younger son and i know it's just going to keep going forever the two boys can be like it's tough of when you're two two boys because of course first through the war bloody and bruised right so yeah you know you the first one battle Well, the first one through learns all the hard lessons so the youngest can come through

and try to tell terrible lies, right? Right. And so, you know, I think when you're the elder daughter, there's a sense of maturity and a sense of responsibility based on the conversations I've had with my wife because she has two sisters. So there's three daughters in her family. Yeah.

From her parents' point of view. And- That's gotta be hilarious. I think there was, yeah. The three daughters is point of view. And that's got to be hilarious. I think there was, yeah. The three daughters is always like a, it's like a dramedy. It's not a sitcom. It's a dramedy. Yeah. We grew up around all those girls as well. So, cause they were from Auckland. So, I mean, there's the stories, but I mean, you know, I think, I think that there's a sense of maturity and responsibility that somewhat comes with being eldest, that the eldest son resents sometimes and the eldest daughter accepts. Yeah. And so there's probably a feeling from Zoe's point of view of like,

you know, well, this is the gig and I'm going to take on this gig in a righteous way. Whereas Jackson is just sometimes, why do I always get yelled at? Right. Why don't you, like, what's up with Lucci? He gets away with anything, this kid, you know? Yeah, Zoe wouldn't even apply to an all-girls school for high school because she's like, Ben has to come to the school I'm going to.

That's cool, man. She wants to look out for him. Yeah, I'm stoked. at i mean our kids get on really well as well they have their moments they are high comedy yeah we can talk about this all day let's take one more break to talk about luminary they just launched a bunch of great original shows you can only find on their platform including one that is beloved in the ringer family the rewatchables we spun off the rewatchables for a special limited edition series called rewatchables 1999 dissecting some of the most iconic movies from 1999 some of them i gotta say weren't that iconic american pie super enjoyable i wouldn't call it iconic other ones are uh we did nodding hill this week jul Julia Lippman and Amanda Dobbins broke that one down.

Chris Ryan, Sean Fenton and I, we're doing The Insider. Michael Mann, you know how we feel about Michael Mann. That's coming on next week on The Rewatchables 1999. We break down each movie with highly specific categories and we analyze it from every possible angle. Most rewatchable scene, who won the movie? Could this be made into a Netflix series in 2019? The overacting award, all that stuff.

Plus a couple of categories we put in there that are 1999 specific. So check that out. The Luminary app is free to download. Use it to listen to thousands of podcasts, including the ones you love like this one. They have a great app, easy to use interface, personalized content recommendations,

movies, music, sports, comedy, plus all the original podcasts they have as well, including a new one from Omari Hardwick, but they have a lot of good ones there. Get your first two months of access to Luminary's premium content for free. When you sign up at luminary.link slash rewatch, after that it is $7.99 per month. Luminary.link slash rewatch. Two months of free access. Cancel anytime. Terms do apply. And since we're talking about podcasts,

don't forget The Watch on Monday, breaking down Game of Thrones right after, and then Binge Mode coming up later in the week, the final episode ever. And you can watch our Game of Thrones episode, hashtag talk the thrones. Mallory, Jason, Chris Ryan, that is happening. All right, back to Zane Lowe.

Can you give the background on how the Apple thing happened? You're just, you're doing your thing. Yeah, it's great. You get a call, walk me through it. So I'm at Radio 1 and I've sort of got a sense within two years of the call, two years prior, around that time, I got a sense that people's listening habits were shifting and at radio being kind of the only entry point.

Shifting to streaming. Yeah. Well, just shifting to on-demand, AOD, VOD. You know, if you come home from school and you have a limited window of time to enjoy your entertainment after homework and before you have to get ready for bed, you either can dial in at a time I'm asking you to dial into, or you can just record it and watch it later. Right. Right. So if that's going to happen in video, which it already is, of course, that's going to happen for music, especially as streaming starts to become a thing. It's like, well, I'll just listen to the album when I have time. I don't have to structure

my day necessarily around this pre-designed time slot. I knew there was a window where that was still going to matter. And I'm not saying radio doesn't matter. It's still the most effective voice for any local city, town, community, or country. It's an incredibly important satellite and radar for what's moving the needle in your community. But in terms of its role in music, which is my primary passion, to move the needle, I just felt like, excuse me, this beautiful window where I'd held the records before they came out, played them. One of the few people who hadn't played them sort of ushered in this really amazing audience of passionate music fans who trusted me and wanted to hear this music. And up front, it was running its course and I felt

that. And so I sort of put this two-step plan together. One was to sort of turn the boat around, get my ratings up, leave on a high note because I figured whatever move you're going to make next, you want to leave on a good footing rather than a back foot. So we did that. And then just as sort of the conversation turned

from, hey, your ratings are bombing to, hey, you turned this around. Congratulations. Great. Let's talk about your future. I got the call. So it was perfect. Like the crossover was just perfect. So you had leverage. I had leverage. But also, I knew that what I'd learned that two years of turning it around just further qualify what I believed, which was it's going into the hands of the fan

and getting away from the gatekeepers. And the tastemakers. And the tastemakers. And if you want to continue to explore and, you know, your taste and add value to the experience, you're going to have to start having a different conversation than the one I was having, which was very one-sided. I would tell the audience what was here, tell them what I had, tell them when it was coming. It was all me, me, me or whoever else was the DJ. By me, I mean any of us who were the gatekeepers.

Then it's like, wait a minute, everyone's going to start curating. Don't use the C word around me anymore. You're going to have to use that around everybody because everyone's got the phone. Everyone's got the shareability. Everyone's got the playlisting capacity. Everyone's got the AOD, VOD. It's like it's gone.

Right. So get with the program. And luckily, you know, Apple called me and were like, hey, we think things are changing. And I was like, you're preaching to the choir. So what was the original plan compared to what it is now? The original plan was to just kind of just try to shove the circle of radio into the square of streaming services and and bring and

curate a bunch of people that you like and well that was kind of like came from us because um well it's like trent and jimmy and and and you know larry eddie robert um you know uh these are these individuals you know elizabeth who worked for robert they sort of came to us and sort of said hey look you know you've done this over at Radio 1. We want voices. Jimmy was like, I want storytelling. I want the culture of the art to come along for the ride. Because it's just streaming is a very effective utility,

but everyone has kind of the same amount of songs. And everyone kind of can do the same thing with the songs, right? So eventually, you've just got to pick which one you think looks or sounds the best. So what's going to be a differentiator? And they banked on this and so they brought me in and then they were like but we don't really know what it needs to be that's up to you and so that's when i started to take more of a creative director role and then we decided oh let's give a majority of the real estate to the artists because from from me and my friends who are making it point of view it was one of the last frontiers that hadn't truly been explored outside of promotion. Yeah.

And artists hate doing promotion. Right. It's like the talking about music, that's not why I do it. So, okay, rather than just go down the same old promo route, why don't you go and take that time and you do something creative with it

because you don't seem to complain about making merch or designing a stage set or doing your track listing or your artwork or any of the other extensions of your creative self so why would making some kind of radio show be any different and once a few people work that out like Pharrell got it immediately Q-tip got it immediately Jenny Beth got it I mean um St. Vincent got it immediately you know these artists were like oh I like this this is just another creative exercise. Then the whole thing started to land

and then it just kind of took on a life of its own. I remember like in the mid 2000s, Apple started doing celebrity playlists. Right, yeah. And they had this whole page for them and like 90% of them were terrible, but then occasionally some celebrity would have like this incredible playlist.

And you know why? Because they cared. This person, I want to be friends with this person because the terrible one of these songs the terrible ones were done by their assistant and the good ones were done by them and that was what the most important thing was if you're going to do this with us you've got to be invested like don't just do it because we've offered you the gig yeah right do it because you recognize the value in it and so four years on you know we're in a situation where you know i don't even know what i'm about to say or on, you know, we're in a situation where, you know, I don't even

know what I'm about to say or not say, but I mean, we've got a whole new run of shows coming out in the summer and in the fall, some of our biggest artists yet who are teaming up new shows for us. So if the thing had a shelf life and wasn't going to connect, it would have long gone by now. So artists see it now as a chance to sort of really just build their own real estate and explore their own voice and control the way that they present their music. Because that's the thing that really is the biggest change now, is that the distribution is in the hands of the artist. It's no longer just in the hands of the high street or the record label. These are all important factors, but the artist can ultimately decide how and when the music comes. I just got off a phone

call with a manager on my way here and he's like, yeah, we're bringing a song out tomorrow. And I'm like, yeah, but you know, it's busy tomorrow. He's like, yeah, we've made up our mind. We're just going to put the song out tomorrow. What can you do? And I'm like, all right, well, we'll rally around you. Of course we love you. We'll do whatever we can to support that. But this is my point. Like it's fluid all the time now. Yeah. And it's exciting. It's sometimes it can be hair raising and you're not quite sure how you're going to get everything in line but it's way better than looking back on it now than it was before

and I had it good before I was one of the people who had the records right I'm amazed that I that we did that

as long as we did like it's crazy to think now that you had to just listen to my show at 7pm in the UK to hear these songs like it's nuts well I got a taste

of what it's like to influence people musically when Yacht Rock on SiriusXM. I love Yacht Rock, by the way. SiriusXM, they asked me to DJ an hour, and it was one of the highlights of my career. What did you play? I picked 13 songs.

I gave my whole theory. Christopher Cross? Come on. Which one, though? Come on. Sailing. No, we did. Ride Like the Wind.

We did Ride Like the Wind because Kenny Loggins is on that one. Oh, it's so good, that song. the Wind. Ride Like the Wind. Because Kenny Loggins is on that one. Oh, it's so good. That's one of my yacht rock theories. Michael McDonald as well is on that one. Well, that's one of my yacht rock theories is that Michael McDonald has to be every three songs somehow. I met him the other day for the first time. Legend.

Oh my God. I shit the bed. Legend. All timer. That's crazy. I watch one of my guilty pleasures is I like to watch bad music documentaries on AXIS. AXIS has a lot of bad music documentaries. Can you recommend a few?

Well, no, I just like watching them because a lot of times the band produces them and it's like done by somebody's cousin and the editing's terrible, but they have all this footage and it's like, wow. So anyway, there's this Doobie Brothers one that is on a lot that is hilarious. And it's kind of done from the perspective of, if only Michael McDonald hadn't come along, this would have gone so much better. And they have this one guy that comes in, and he's like the expert of the Doobie Brothers. Is it getting hot in here, by the way?

I'm just having a great time. There's this one guy, he clearly resents michael mcdonald he's like yeah you know at the minute by minute album you know that was just that took the band in direction i don't think anybody wanted to go and it's like they won grammys what are you talking about what band are you talking about and then it's and then they had this comeback album i really think phil collins joining genesis was a terrible move it's so good i highly recommend it but But I just, I love all that stuff. So anyway,

back to Michael McDonald. I mean, you can't have Yacht Rock without Michael McDonald. He is just a shadow over all the Yacht Rock. What is it about Michael McDonald that really kind of correctly defines the Yacht Rock era? Is it his voice? Is it the

songwriting? Is it the songwriting is it the phrase i mean i have your answers if you want them please number one um you can see him on a yacht oh definitely you can definitely see him like with a glass of like chardonnay like hitting on your girlfriend i feel like he eternally had silver hair as well like eternally yeah great young 70s there was this one stretch where it's pretty dark and then boom it flipped but the big thing is all his songs are about like these two women that just destroyed him emotionally and that's the kind of stuff you would talk about on a yacht after like four drinks like hey what happened to becky yeah well it didn't go that well i keep forgetting we're not above anymore yeah minute by minute, I'm holding on.

And then, I don't know. So he just fits. He fits that era. The thing about Yacht Rock as well is in many respects, it was kind of a precursor to Jam & Lewis and what they achieved and ultimately what house music went on to achieve and other certain genres of music and styles and artists and producers where they put heartbreak on the dance floor. So you would find yourself dancing to these songs that were super chirpy.

But then, you know, the sentiment, like you say, is just this like, take my heart out and stomp on it with your boat shoes. Or let's have a glass of wine. I said, well, let's have a glass of wine. And then I'm going to tell you later. And then I'll put my boat shoes away. And then we'll talk about how my heart got broken. So I took my wife to Yacht Rock at the Hollywood Bowl last summer in like July. And it was Christopher Ross, Kenny Loggins, and Michael McDonald. And there were people dressed like yacht captains. It was out of control.

It's a thing. Yeah. It's a thing. And you know what? But some of those records sound so good because I feel like that was really on the dawn of high fidelity. So also it was like, it sounded so good, people rejected it. They were like, this isn't rock and roll.

It sounds too good. And now it's like music is just striving for that sonic quality all the time yeah the doobie brothers are fascinating because they had this old school classic rock sound and then they bring in mcdonald who is like one of like the comets of that whole era from like a songwriting just melody standpoint and they just kind of cram these two different things together that make no sense but they really did figure it out for a couple of years. Without a doubt. So they had this farewell concert.

I was in a drugstore once in like 1986. And they were selling those cassettes for like a dollar. And it was like the Doobie Brothers farewell tour. And I'm like, what? And I got this cassette. It was a bootleg. And it was this concert they did in like San Diego and it had all their songs on it. And it was my favoriteleg and it was this concert they did in like san diego and it had all their songs on it

and it was terribly recorded cassette yeah yeah and i listened to it so much that i gave it to my friend jeff for christmas i was like i want you to have this now i've had a great eight years with this now you take it that's a sweet thing but it uh there was something my first bootleg experience was a weird u2 concert around the war era. And I didn't even know what. Now you're talking my language. And I didn't even know what like bootleg was. I just saw this cassette like yourself at this record store in Queen Street. And it just, I've never seen it before.

And it like was then live. And I got excited. I took it home. And it was just the, the sink, like the trashiest recording of any, like you could barely make it out. And I remember I got my mom to take me back to the store and I was like, I want to this and the guy is like you don't get the point of this is a legal contraband i can't buy this back off you right now this is your rap like you bought this right you know if bono comes searching for this bootleg it's on you like i'm not taking it off your hands there was a whole

bootleg cd scene for like six years there in nineties. Cause there was this place in Kenmore square in Boston that used to sell them. And I would go every week because like just randomly like a stall. Yeah. Just randomly there. It was, it was a record store, but they had this one section in the back.

Right. Almost like they weren't advertising. Nudge, nudge, wink, wink. And it would be like Nirvana in Amsterdam, 1992.

And he's like, I'm taking this. So I had all these bootlegs and somebody broke into my car and took all my CDs and they took like my 27 best bootlegs. Oh, that's heartbreaking. And it was honestly like- That's heartbreaking.

Just split my throat next time. You can get all the other shit. Like, could you just kill me? I don't want to live anywhere. I just think it's really funny how like, you know, like the war on piracy, the war on bootlegs, it was such a real thing.

Like, do not let them bootleg these albums. And little did they know that bootlegs were the least of their problems. Yeah. Seriously. Like bootlegs sound romantic now. Like I think if most artists sort of bootlegger on the street, they'd be like, thanks. Appreciate it. Appreciate the control promotion. Well, and then especially like with YouTube, YouTube is basically a constant bootleg. Anybody's in concert. There's just with an iphone filming them from nine different angles yeah and i don't know that like i've watched a beyonce documentary i thought it was

fine you sure about the homecoming one the one that was on netflix it was fine it was well done but i could also go on youtube and watch the performance so it's like at that point it's funny though because we're talking about artists like beyonce and the kind of quality that she puts into performances and what's so amazing about her as we all know and it's a globally established fact like I think 97.3% of all humans agree with this point. Yeah. That when it comes to performance and commitment and perfection and just natural talent like Beyonce is just the goat, right? She's the greatest of all time right now. And so when you think about what she puts into this and she never rests on her laurels, like you can see why she wants to come out a year later and say that's all good you've had your

fun online but this is what it's supposed to look like and supposed to feel like because again for her so you liked it more than i did i thought it was fantastic because i wasn't there so i didn't see the show and i heard about it and i heard that it was so mind-blowing people were just sort of aghast no one knew how to take it in because it was such an assault on the senses yeah and i watched it and i felt the same way and i mean beyonce is different but i know what you mean like it's kind of i just feel like there was a magic this now i'm doing old guy on the couch again but this time it's legit youtube youtube lifted the curtain a little bit on what it's like to see people live because It's true. In the 80s and 90s and even early 2000s, you know, you either listen to a band,

you saw their video, you might've seen them on like Jim, not Jimmy Fallon, Conan O'Brien or SNL or something like that. Yeah. Or you saw them live. And when you saw them live, it really meant something because it's like, these people are in my town.

I'm going to go see them. The only thing that I think is kind of, and this is me now, old guy on the couch, but this is also very legit, is that I sort of feel and i'm all for it like i mean i film things at concerts you know i got my phone out during billy eilish you think i wasn't capturing that it was amazing but um you know i i sort of feel like there was a moment in time and kids won't really recognize this where you weren't you know you only had word of mouth especially if you were isolated and you weren't in the major cities or major countries in the world.

When Nirvana came to Auckland, I had no idea what they played, what they started with, what to expect. And they started, you know, I'll never forget that concert. I mean, I'll never forget the first Beastie Boys concert, the way that the lights went down and, you know, on came, you know, the Nugent biz thing, the Beastie Boys, they're coming home. And they went straight into let it flow let yourself go came flying outside the stage

now if I'd seen that tour because it had been through Australasia and Japan prior on YouTube I kind of would have known chances are

they'll start with Slow and Low and a little bit of that anticipation and excitement might have gone and so I think you just have to do it like appropriately because sometimes I just want to go to a gig

and not know what to expect right I agree I don't like the whole here's the set list they've played every night unless it's yacht rock at the bowl you know exactly what to expect well that's i need to know who came on and played first how do you even flip a coin on that christopher cross came out was very available like the win hey straight away don't act like you don't remember he's into it he's into it he played the theme from arthur i love that yeah i'm with that. He actually had some good songs. He seems sad though.

He had to look like- Why? He won 12 Grammys. On the year that Pink Floyd, like Dark Side of the Moon was nominated, The Wall or something. Well, the one that killed the Grammys

was Toto that year. Oh, yeah. When they won the four. By the way, Africa's a really good song. It's kind of defensible. Now, Toto, amazing. Africa's amazing.

Toto, amazing. But did they, Rosanna, incredible. But did they have, are they a yacht rock band? Great question. I haven't got headphones on, but I'm leaning in.

Great question. This is really a question for the ages and I'd like to pose this to all of the erstwhile millions of people who check out this pod. Are Toto a yacht rock band? Great question. Not a yacht rock band,

but have a couple of yacht rock songs. Great question. No. No. They have a couple of yacht rock band but have a couple yacht rock songs great question no no they have a couple yacht rock songs I don't consider them in the official

I feel like they were poppy too like there's some balance there's some OG yacht rock bands I mean I'm just saying like back in the 80s

I got myself a nice little spritzer I'm on the boat I'm sitting there I take my boat shoes off put a little Toto on I put a little Toto on? I put a little Toto on.

I'll talk to the committee about it. Bring it up next week and see what the team thinks. I like the idea of an ongoing thread as well that I can introduce to this podcast because no one wants

their legacy to die. It sounds like we need to do a Yacht Rock thing. If you're inviting me back, bro, just say when. It sounds like we just need to do like two hours of Yacht Rock.

Just say when and then I'll chase you for five months and I'll see you then. So Christopher Cross was first. Logan second. Of course, McDonald comes up third. Logan's great.

Tight. Like definitely had like Botoxed it up right before. Awesome. He's like over 70 now. He's great life. Famous in the 80s. But you know who wins that race hands down? I went to the Gabriel Sting concert where they traded songs back and forth.

That was mad at the bowl. And Sting's like, I mean, that guy's just jacked. Yeah. Oh, he is? Jacked. Like, it's like ridiculous. Think some HGH maybe? I just, I don't think it's transcendental meditation, hardcore yoga.

Oh, the tantric sex? Yeah. So he's just glowing. I think he's, yeah. I mean, the dude was literally floating at one point. I actually was mad. I didn't, Peter Gabriel did like the 30th anniversary or so. He was amazing that night

not to rub it in you know everyone said like this is incredible and I was like I was so mad I didn't go I have a buddy of mine

Nathan Hubbard who we always he's the one I text when stuff like this happens and I was like how are we not there what were we doing I mean I've had a few regrets

like that in concert levels I remember one time my wife and I were just too tired to go to Gangstar and I've always regretted that because then of course guru passed away it was like at the astoria too the story in london no longer there guru sadly no longer around just like that you just what were you thinking dick just get on the tube and go to the gig you know my wife and i went

to this 1998 pearl jam show oh i love that is now jam so much in massachusetts that is now considered one of their three best shows. What did they start with? I don't remember what they started or finished with. Cause I might've, might've been at the bar and, you know, I might've been handed a couple of things passed around. Right.

But Eddie got mad at one point because somebody threw something on the stage and yelled at the crowd and threatened to quit, to quit the show and was going to walk off. And then came back TV It's not a TV studio, Josh. He was so mad. And then just took it out on the rest of the concert and was like, had so much intensity.

And it was just like, it was like, you know, right when we've talked about this, I was talking about this with Kevin Clark and Robert Mays from the ringer about when's the perfect time to see a band. Like just, if you're looking at their career

and you go back and you're like just you're taking a pin you're going right there or dart right there that's it that's the year and i always feel like it could go one of two ways you either want to see them early you know like i you too i would have the under the red red blood sky that i would want to see them right then over any other time yeah but like sometimes when they have a little more of a catalog and they're at the peak of their powers that's a good time too and like Progen 98 was like the time I think that's the time I think I think if you're talking

I'm trying to think what albums you're talking about is that Backspacer or is it before Backspacer it's sort of like Vitality was like 94 right and then you sort of got one or two albums after that it's pretty they attended versus that Vitality they had a then there was two more after that no code yeah no code yeah but they had at that point they had i think given the fly was already but they just had like 20 songs that you were fired up for that's the time i feel like that's the time i think you're right i mean

so i have this really really sort of like sad pearl jam kind of i've got amazing pearl jam stories yeah but i've also got this kind of ongoing sad thread throughout these amazing moments where I'm never around when they play these amazing shows. They'll come and they'll do some stadium show and I'm always away. They'll do like a fan show. I'm always away. I can probably think of four or five moments that my friends have been to, to see Pearl Jam. And they just talk about still to this day, like these hallowed shows. and I've always never been there. And so it's getting to a point now where –

and I don't think Pearl Jam are going anywhere thankfully, but I have to go and see them somewhere special. I have to go to Wrigley Field or somewhere just to have that experience. Do you know what I mean? Because I've missed so many of these sort of landmark shows. And they've had a fair share of landmark shows. Oh yeah. My first concert ever was Bob Seger, 1980. Sick.

But my second concert was Bruce Springsteen also 1980. Sick. Mine was Kiss and then George Benson. Kiss is fantastic. And then George Benson. That's pretty deep. Springsteen did like four encores though. So I just thought that's what happened at a concert. He set the bar so high. It was like three and a half hours like four encores though so I just thought that's what happened at a concert he set the bar so high it was like three and a half hours

and four encores musicians have been tripping over that bar for decades to come you know what I mean I'm like wait so whatever the next one is it was like two hours

and they just left I was like what happened wow this Tom Petty guy really short changed me tonight you know what I mean we should do Thrones let's hit it alright now's the time

in the pod we can turn it off and then we're going to do Thrones. Yeah. All right. So we got one show left. Yeah. By the way, thanks for,

I mean, Mallory and Jason, what, I mean, talk about two wonderful human beings, incredibly gracious to me and allowing me to like, like vomit my ridiculously half-baked theory. They love coming on.

So it's, it's definitely great, but there's so, there's so deep in it. Like it really is like sort of going up to your, you know, to your sort of

professor after class and kind of trying to get one over and it's just like, yeah, cool. Thanks. That's what we do on the Sunday nights we do on this podcast

we play Throne Game because I'm like dumbass Thrones fan. Me too. And I can barely remember anybody's names and they just go through and we just talk about it

like whatever. So I guess we can do that now there's well i mean we're in the same game because there's a pool going at work right now um and there's like a whole bunch of people that got in like 15 20 people that got in it and it was a whole criteria like everyone's done it like who's gonna live who's gonna die who's gonna become a white walker who's gonna this blah blah blah i am stone cold second to last so and i came in so confident like i got this you know and my boss my new boss actually sent an email out i'm sure i'm not betraying any trust yesterday on the thread saying he sent an email and then he followed up with his email with another email specifically just to say by the way

zane lol slap hand emoji like i'm just failing this game he's like trolling you trolling me my boss jesus yeah yeah so what do you think happens who wins the Iron Throne I think Daenerys did you take notes what did why did you put glasses on did you write stuff down what's happening right now because I

you know this is serious the music thing is easy for me I can I'm so blind I can like steer off into space I don't even know who I'm talking to

for the last hour and a half yeah it gets down to Thrones Thrones yeah you don't want to screw up it's like I have to put glasses on for this conversation right

it's like a Tool album. You have to wear reading glasses to enjoy it. You know what I mean? I love Tool, but you've really got to absorb. I get it. I think Daenerys is for the chop, obviously. But I've been saying that for weeks. I just thought it would happen sooner.

I think she'll die at the hand of a Stark. I think Jon will be so heartbroken it may even be John that I think John won't take the throne I think he's always said he doesn't want it I think he'll be so heartbroken

that Daenerys dies for one reason or another he'll ultimately abdicate his right to the throne just work as a bartender I think he'll just basically go and work in a sports bar

somewhere and just be like every now and then people will come in he'll be all fat and stuff and he'll just have a big beard and then someone will be like tell us a story about Ned Stark who my father was the most honourable man and just be like, every now and then people will come in, he'll be all fat and stuff and he'll just have a big beard and then someone will be like, tell us a story about Ned Stark.

My father was the most honorable man who ever lived. You can't tell me that's a well-poured pint of stuff. I think Sansa. That's who I think too. So she's definitely not getting it because we don't know anything. Yeah, she's definitely not.

But I think she is because, I'm just taking my theory. I just think that she's, I think the throne will ultimately reside in the north because when Daenerys goes, no one else, it will go to the north. I don't think Arya wants it.

Arya might not survive. I don't think Jon will take it because Daenerys, he'll just be heartbroken. Because you can remember, Jon brought this on. Yeah. A lot of what's going on with Daenerys

kind of rests with Jon. True. Jon's been a bit of a dick. Listen, don't trust your sisters. They're definitely going to tell other people. He knew they were. If your sisters don't like who you're dating, they're not going to be like, let me just put this in my pocket.

And he was even a dick. He was like, said to Bran, you tell them. You know, like, come on, man. Bran's like, are you serious, bro? I can see through time. You want me to tell him this little detail? Come on, bro. Why don't you ask me about the meaning of life?

What happened 400 years ago? Why are you asking? Come on. So I think that't you ask me about the meaning of life? What happened 400 years ago? Why don't you ask me? Come on. So I think that Sansa has served at the very unsavory side of many, many dark people in power. And I think that power, you learn from power. You learn from the dark side of power. Let me go here. Cersei 2.0.

You don't think she's dead? Oh, Let me go here. Cersei 2.0. You don't think she's dead? Oh, you mean Sansa's Cersei 2.0? Maybe not the sex with her brother part, but like the same, like she's been jaded by life to the point that she's going to become the queen. I think Sansa, I think the whole season-

You think Sansa's a good person? I think Sansa is a smart person. And I think she knows that having watched Cersei go down, well, she'll find out Cersei's gone down. She'll find out Daenerys is going to go down. That ultimately, that kind of approach to power ends one way. And I think Sansa ultimately recognized at the beginning of this season that she really understood what it would take to be in power.

And she's been the smartest character of the whole season. She's the one who's always known, she's seen around the corner more than anybody else, even Arya. Didn't trust Daenerys. Didn't trust Daenerys. Saw around the corner, knew what she was doing when she told Tyrion,

he told Varys. She set the whole thing in motion. She knew exactly what she was doing because yes, she wants power, but I think more than anything, she didn't want Daenerys to be in power. How scared do you think- She wanted to be in the North.

How scared do you think are the Game of Thrones producers that Sophie Turner is going to have like four glasses of Cabernet one night and then spill the final episode on Instagram at three in the morning? What about that story? They have to be in constant fear of this. I mean-

They must've taken her phone like a week ago. Yeah, because she's the bossiest boss of all bosses. She's just literally crushed the internet. I feel like in the last four months. She's crushed the internet. She's crushed the internet. She's won the internet. Who smashes half a glass of Pinot with a jewel in her hand, dabs.

I mean, she's just unbelievable, right? It's so funny because 20 years ago, we would have been going, what's wrong with Sophie Turner? And there would have been like Us Weekly covers, like Sophie Turner is finally out of control. And now it's like, this is great. Keep it up, girl. Keep going, man.

You're the best. I mean, she is the best. And I mean, but people have been saying in any interview that she's been the best from day one, right? I mean, people think she's one of the most well-liked members of the cast from what I can tell. And, you know, the fact that she's kind of come out and she's had the roughest ride.

She's had the worst time. And I think the fact that she's come out in this season and being so sharp and so knowing. I ride. She's had the worst time. And I think the fact that she's come out in this season and being so sharp and so knowing. I would say Theon had the worst time. Yeah, Theon had the worst time. He did get his jingles cut off. Yeah, but hang on. Hang on. Hang on. Hang on.

That was terrible. And the whole kind of like, I mean, the worst for Theon was the whole ride to the border only to be met by Ramsay. I was just kidding. Come on. I would torture you even worse. I hate to do it to you. by your man, by Ramsay. I was just kidding. Come on. I'm going to torture you even worse. I hate to do it to you, but it's how it goes down.

That's like when people are like Game of Thrones, how they treat women. It's like, what about Theon? Nah, I don't think. Theon's treated worse than anyone on the show. I don't even think Theon can compare to Sansa. You think about Sansa even from a young age, right? Yeah, Sansa, it was bad.

She's a runner up. You know, Joffrey like put her father up on a spike and made her watch, right? You know, I mean, she went through the worst. I mean, her treatment has been the most horrendous, but I just feel like in the last- I told Zoe if that ever happens with anyone she's dating that they have to break up. If my head ever ends up on a spike, cut it off.

I'm just trying to think of like how deep the rivalry goes between you and fellow sports fans like whether or not that's even a potential reality like even in the middle even like the old ages like the middle ages yeah i don't think it's ever been that bad i don't know man i i just feel i just feel like uh i just feel like she's always known where this is going she's seen everyone else looks a little slow compared to her this season, even Aria. And watching the way she's Aria suddenly chose sides with Sansa. After what happened with Littlefinger,

she was like, Oh, it's pretty clear. Who's going to run the, run the, run the road here. And so I think, I think Sansa will be the last one standing if there was such a thing.

Yeah. Johnstone is kind of like Joe Biden. He's like, can I just run the North? And people are like, need you he's had the worst season he's been the most annoying most kind of useless kind of weak even in the battle with against the night king and his army he just sort of rode around on his dragon kind of not doing much and he has the same move in every sword fight nobody's figured it out no one's figured it out they run right at him he just steps chops them down yeah it's just like

make a move do a stutter step on him with an empathetic look on his face like don't make me kill ya don't make me kill ya my father was the most honorable man

who ever lived and he's like 5 foot 5 so like there's gotta be somebody with some size that could use some reach against him I just refuse to believe

he's this good of a sword fighter well I he's just I think he's been like he's definitely had the biggest 180 as far as character development goes from hero to half zero. Yeah. It's annoying.

He's just annoying. I even felt bad for Daenerys. That great line in the last episode where she goes, fair it is. Fair enough. It's like, Jesus Christ. I understand it's complicated. This is not good for either of us.

This is a very, very awkward situation. You feel how I feel and I feel how you feel this is the one shot we got to spare a million people up in that King's Landing and he's like

I can't do it my father was the most honorable man who ever lived settle down dude alright fear it is you know

Daenerys took a lot of heat this week which is funny because she's a fake character that these two guys they're making up all the stories I don't know if people realize this sometimes we don't think that way though right but um and it was all

about now her her turn it happened too fast yeah but i read a thing they didn't build it up people i i read a think piece i can't remember who wrote it it might have been new york or times the level of like journalism is coming into this right it's like the best rating of the internet right now the best conversation exactly it might have been the former speechwriter for barack obama and a guest anyway but it's like there was a there was a theory that was that i agree with which was like no this has been the arc the whole way through um we only really saw the softer side of daenerys when she fell in love with john snow um even before then yeah she was merciful at times but she would kill people to show mercy she would absolutely brutally assassinate people and then turn

around with people and say, you've got a choice to make. But ultimately, we get back to that age old issue of unrequited love. I mean, unrequited love, that's a brutal one. And she hasn't, you don't love me back. I mean, what's that great line I saw on social media today? One way for no one to have Jon Snow is for no one to survive. Yeah. Well, here's the thing. I actually think the turn made total sense because all she's been doing this whole time

is at some point I'm going to run everything. And it's all going great. It's all going great. She gets this piece of information, throws her in complete flux. She's in this different part of the world in the 1300s i like to think it's in the 1300s i still haven't worked it out it's like springfield i have no idea where it is so all of a sudden now she's in this different she's not really

clicking with the people there they're gravitating to john snow she's alone cersei kills her right hand person jorah dies she loses a dragon she loses one of her kids she's just spiraling out of control it totally makes sense to me that she's like totally burning down everything i live for this way i was really sad and shocked watching it happen but not because i thought it was a character or a plot flaw but because i was like wow that is the end of innocence like that love story is over yeah it ends one way john the starks or the nearest it's gonna go one way and so i thought it was one of the best episodes of the entire series and stakes me too stakes are so high right here's the thing i just want to be entertained when i'm watching television television show. That show was fucking awesome.

It's amazing. It was so good. I was riveted the whole time. I thought Arya was going to die. I was on the edge of my seat. It was great. You can pick it apart, but fine. Pick anything apart. Exactly. Jesus. I mean, you know, I'm about to get crucified when this thing goes out. What did you say? Yacht Rock?

I think the Toto Yacht Rock thing might be a little bit over the line. People are like, you don't realize Toto. Quick, before we go, who's the biggest star in the world right now? Wow. Great question. Music star? Yeah. Well, pound for pound in terms of sales and what's going on, Ed Sheeran,

in terms of ticket sales and what he's achieving. That's unbelievable. Ed Sheeran, in terms of ticket sales and what he's achieving. That's unbelievable. Ed Sheeran? The biggest star in terms of ability and talent and absolute just complete power is Beyonce still. She is still the person who can raise her little finger and the whole world just waits with bated breath to see what she's going to do.

The biggest rap star in the world is Drake, hands down. And I think he's the biggest, I'm going to call him the biggest streaming star in the world in terms of the way he uses streaming and how he's utilized it. The biggest global superstar right now is J Balvin, who's just unbelievable in terms of his size and numbers. And I think the greatest artist for me, and I'm just going to go on a limb and say it,

no disrespect to anybody else, because I love all of the aforementioned amazing talented musicians, but the one that I feel is like, they're just the one who I just look to and I just I just wait every time he does anything is Frank Ocean I just wow personally just absolutely got a grunt from Kyle I just love is that rare no is it when he agrees sometimes he just makes noises it was a good solid grunt I just you know and that's not to trick to compare or to sort of put them in any form of order.

I've given everyone in my opinion, some strong kind of positioning. Um, but I, I really feel like Frank Ocean for me is just, I just think in terms of the way he, he approaches his, his craft is,

is, is phenomenal in sports. I always do this thing about approval rating. Yeah. You know, like, uh, athletes who just have high approval ratings where just the most

sports are so polarizing like if beyonce was in sports there would have been stories written after the netflix documentary like actually it wasn't that good and right right people are always trying to love about sports it's harder music to do that that's why being a critic you have to really fall on your soul when you're a critic in music because even in film you can come out there and say that film stank and most of the actors will agree with you. They're going to check. They'll move on and make a great film next. But in music, you can't do that because of the fans. But the fans come.

Like if I said right now, like Beyonce fucking suck. Don't even joke. Yeah, I can't even joke. Don't even joke about it. The beehive would come flying. Don't even joke about it. Yeah, that would be it.

She's the goat. But that's the only thing this happens in. It doesn't happen in sports. It doesn't happen in TV movies. It's kind of sweet. It's special. I'm kind of bummed. And at some point, I would love special. I'm kind of bummed.

And at some point, I would love to. I'm inviting myself for round two because I kind of want to talk about sports with you at some point too because I'm a big sports fan. Well, I think he earned a return invite, right, Kyle? Absolutely. Kyle had a good time. He grunted like seven times. I like how Kyle makes the decision. So here's my case for Adele. Go ahead.

I didn't even mention Adele. That's insane. I wasn't going to call you out on it. No, you didn't. It is part of the Zane Lowe repertoire. It's the love for Adele and you just didn't even mention her. Whatever. You guys, listen. People grow apart.

Look, I mean, Adele knows how I feel. People grow apart. It's fine. I'm so screwed. I still think Adele releasing a new album. Well, she actually is factually the biggest. If she releases a new album, I'm not even talking about album sales. Just like her next album is just going to be a bigger deal than Beyonce's next album.

I think Beyonce, there's other stuff that goes into what makes her a star. And ultimately with Adele, if a new album comes out that she did and she put time into, I'm so angry. People will be the most excited. You notice how I'm putting my glasses on and off. I can't decide whether or not I'm putting them on, putting them off.

You're rattled right now. I'm very mad at this right now. You and Adele now. She is like pound for pound in terms of record sales and yeah, she's the best. But what other artists... That was a shit question

in the first place, Bill, to be fair. Thank you. What other artists could get divorced divorced announced they're getting divorced right and everybody's immediate reaction is i can't wait for the album i can't think of anybody else that that would happen to it's happened before i just think she's the champion she – Adele has learned how to say no and still be able to, you know, reach people in such an honest and thoughtful, beautiful way. A lot of artists who learn to say no, it can sit really badly with people, right? They don't like it when you're not available.

But Adele just does it in such a humane and personal way because that's just like this is how I move, right? I don't do much and when I do it, I put everything into it and I give it to you and it's my gift to you and that's why people feel so connected to her beyond the incredible songwriting and the power of her performance and her songs and her writing is the fact that when she does come back, it's like this is a really genuine gift, like a genuine relationship she has with people

yeah but don't think that she's available all the time and i think that's really i think that's really normal i think that's very normal and i think it's very it's very human and it's a very it's a very kind of sane thing to do because we all know with social media and the way things are right now and of course the appetite for a constant sense of availability and tactility and people want to touch you all the time yeah i'm here i'm doing this i'm doing this i'm around i'm having lunch i've just done this like i've done this collaboration in the fashion world i've done this i've done this and that's great when you know some people want to be 360 creative all the time but i just like that you know adele's like no i do it my way and i do it my in my own pace and to win on those terms

is uh is kind of the ultimate she's one of my favorite celebrities in a long time. Because I like how she's almost like a cat. Like she just kind of jumps on your lap every four months and then is gone. You don't know what happened. And then it's like, hey, I'm back. Like she did the James Corden, whatever that car wash thing. Killed it. The carpool thing.

And she was so good in that. And then you watch that and you go, why doesn't she do more stuff? But I'm also glad she does it. No, because she does. Because it's like special when she does it. She does what she wants to do. She seems like the best hangout of all the famous people. She just does what she wants to do.

She's always been that human being who just kind of focuses on music and craft and just living her life and doesn't apologize for it. And I just think like, and it's very core right now, like I said, at a time when there's this expectation of availability all the time, it's kind of nice that someone doesn't want to play that game. Yeah. I think she has the highest approval rating right now.

Even higher than Beyonce. Yeah. She's the biggest. She's the biggest. Who's, if somebody, you're at a party and somebody was like, you know,

I fucking hate Adele. I think like the whole, everyone would just stop talking. I don't think I could be friends with that person. Well, you forgot to mention her five minutes ago. I love how you walk around to this. You just fucking.

Zane Lowe. Anything you want to plug? Yeah. Fuck you. That was fun, right? Yeah, that was good.

Let's do it again. We'll have to, we'll do a round two at some point this summer. All right, man. All right. Thanks for coming on. That was great.

All right. Thanks so much to Zane Lowe. And thanks to Joe house. Thanks to the zone. Don't much to Zane Lowe and thanks to Joe House. Thanks to DAZN. Don't forget to check out their app. You can get it on just about anywhere you would be able to watch and operate an app. Enjoy the weekend. Don't forget about hashtag Talk to the Thrones Sunday night right after Game of Thrones ends.

And we'll be back with our old friend, the Cuz Sunday night. Oh, my God. It's going to be fantastic. Until then,, the Cuz. Sunday night. Oh my God, it's going to be fantastic. Until then, enjoy the weekend. On the wayside On the first sun never rinsed I don't have to ever