The Bill Simmons Podcast - 76ers Sliding Doors, 2019’s Best Movies, and Gwyneth Paltrow Is Underrated, With Chris Ryan and Wesley Morris | The Bill Simmons Podcast

Episode Date: January 8, 2020

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Chris Ryan to discuss the Philadelphia 76ers and some of their what-ifs from the past few years, including Markelle Fultz, signing Al Horford, trading draft picks, and more. (2:45). Then Bill talks with The New York Times' Wesley Morris about the best movies of 2019, defending Gwyneth Paltrow, and more (31:35). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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of a website or domain. Wanted to mention TheRinger.com, one of the world's last good websites. Wanted to mention TheRinger Podcast Network where you can find the Book of Basketball 2.0 podcast with Steve Nash. We broke down Game 4 2007 Spurs-Suns, which the Suns ironically

won and then turned out to be the worst break of Steve Nash's career. We talked about that. We talked about the critically acclaimed run of the Suns and Nash's feelings all these years later. I actually made him watch the game, which he had not watched since he played in it and was on the court for it. And he had some complicated feelings about it. One of my favorite podcasts we've done on that feed. So check that one out. And the rewatchables of Quentin Tarantino, me, QT, Chris Ryan got back together for the first time ever. And we did Unstoppable. That's coming on late Wednesday night. So check that out. Coming up, we are going to talk with Chris Ryan, ironically. We're going to do a little basketball,

a little Sixers, Markell, trades, whether Al Horford can be traded, all that stuff. We're going to talk just a little snapshot of where the NBA is right now. And then my old Grantland colleague, Wesley Morris, and I are going to talk about 2019 movies. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, Chris Ryan is here. Terrified Sixers fan. He knows anything he might say might get aggregated on the Psycho Sixers blogs. This feels like almost like a weird Catholic penance that I have to pay to come listen to you talk about the Sixers.

You've been the most fascinating team of the last eight years. You're welcome. All things considered, dating back to the process and all that stuff. We're taping this on a Tuesday. Markel Fultz had 25 points last night and has now become

one of, I think, the strangest topsy-turvy NBA stories of the past 25 years. You have this guy who was the number one pick in the draft, who then basically has this break from any sort of sports reality for a couple years to the point that the Sixers give him away to Orlando

for a ninth man they're hoping might provide bench help, who actually doesn't, who doesn't help you at all. And now Fultz is blossoming on Orlando. He's coming along. It's not like the second coming of... Don't laugh at me yet.

He's coming along. He's coming along. I wish him nothing but the best. It made me look back at everything the Sixers have done in the last couple of years. Is that why you're looking at your iPad? Because you're about to tell me? No.

It's so funny, these fork in the road teams, where you could, and I was thinking about this because I did the Book of Basketball podcast with Nash that we put up today. And you look back at the 2005 to 2008 Suns, who never make the finals, much less win the title. And you think like, they're just starting out in 2000, the summer of 2004. They have Joe Johnson, Amar Stoudemire and Sean Marion on the team. They had the seventh pick in the 2004 draft and they signed Steve Nash. And the seventh pick is either Iguodala or Luol Deng.

And you just think like, if they just do nothing, if they have like a high school janitor as the GM, who's just afraid to do anything and just drafts whoever the draft board says and just keeps those five guys together, the over-under for titles is like one and a half. Yeah.

And instead they do all these things and there's all these different forks in the road for them. And then all of a sudden they don't make the finals. The Sixers thing, and it's not just the Fultz trade, that also leads to them trading Fultz, who then his cap, his salary is removed from the cap, which gives them enough money to spend on Al Horford, who is now basically untradeable

and doesn't fit in with the team you have. But then on top of it, you lose the Fultz asset. And even if you just look at those two things right there, it's like, wow, what would the alternate universe of this look like? Yeah, I mean, we also, what we had to give up to get Fultz in the first place. Remember?

Right. I mean, who knows what happens there? What was that? You gave up, it was the number three pick plus the Sacramento pick, which then ended up not being as good of a pick as we thought. But then you go the other, that was another fork in the road. And then the third fork in the road was you have the number 10 pick trade back to 16. You get this Miami pick that leads to Tobias Harris. So then they pay $180 million. Also, the thing that's important to note

with all of these forks is that they all come, they all are like an episode of General Hospital. Like every one of them is like, but first we have to draft a kid from Villanova whose mom works for the Sixers and then trade him. You know what I mean?

Like that Mikhail Bridges trade is like it always comes with this extra layer of like, layer of, did we have to make it this egregious and like hysterical and dramatic? You know what was underrated about that? The next guy was Shea Gilgis-Alexander. No shit.

Who is now a future All-NBA guy. Yes. You go through all these drafts, you're like, wow, they took faults over Tatum. Oh, they traded the Bridges pick and SGA was the next thing. And it's just like, this is what's so great about the NBA is you can just drive yourself crazy going backwards

and being like, oh, if that had happened, if that had happened. I don't know what they do though, because the Horford stuff really kicked in this week. And it was so obvious to anybody who's been watching my league pass. It was like 10 days ago when he first came out and said, hey, I don't see how I'm being used in this offense. It's been a bad 10 days. But I don't know what their outs are.

I don't know if they need an out. I mean, look, they built this team to stop Giannis. Okay. But that's one round, though. That's the argument. And I don't think that Boston plays them particularly well either, although we'll find out this week. Right?

I mean, we're going to find out. This is the first time they've played each other since Boston got their shit together. It would seem like the Sixers are Boston's kryptonite team. Right. So if they're the kryptonite team for Boston and Milwaukee, then you have to like their chances of getting through the first round. So then what Miami is going to come?

Unless you lost to Miami in round one. Right. Or Toronto. Yeah. Boston still has to make a trade, but I think the Tice-Canter combo against Embiid is just the foul trouble possibilities are just too extensive. By all means, trade for Andre Drummond.

Because Embiid likes playing him too. Well, that's another guy. And this ties into the second part of the conversation I wanted to have. I'm not done with the Sixers yet. This is right around the time when everybody starts going, oh, this guy's trading. Kevin Love's available. And Andre Drummond might be available.

And oh, Horford. I wonder what they could get for him. The answer is, I don't think there's going to be a lot of trades at all. Because this is the all-time, either everybody's making $25 million or more or $7 million or less. And that's another thing with the false contract. You don't really have... A team like the

Sixers is a lot like a team like the Celtics where there's no real room to improve. No, it's like everything would have to be sweetened by a guy like... by somebody like Tybalt. Right. And if you do that, then you're going back through the tearing your fingernails part of we gave up Shamit in the Tobias deal, which still seems like a complete Jerry West highway robbery move now in retrospect.

Tobias, I would say untradeable with that contract. Yeah, but at a certain point you have to ask, what are we trying to get for Tobias Harris? I mean, aren't you just trying to get another version of Tobias Harrison? If you're going to say like Drew Holiday, like a guard who makes similar amounts of money and the guards who make similar amounts of money are basically Drew Holiday and Chris Paul. Okay, so do you want to talk about Ben though? Because I feel like you do

and that is ultimately what this is about. He's untradeable though. No, I'm not talking about trading Ben, but isn't the problem here, it's like Horford and Tobias are good players on their own. Yeah. And I think that like the way that this good players on their own and I think that like the way that this has been

personally the way I think that the fact that this is being mismanaged like this is just an absolute joke the fact that Brett feels like he needs to come out in public

and try to like shame Ben Simmons into shooting threes I don't if you watch the games Ben Simmons is the one guy I feel like who every night brings it

I agree with you so he's one of those guys Simmons is the one guy I feel like who every night brings it. I agree with you. He's one of those guys. He is what he is. Yeah, it's a strange thing where it's like the one thing that you feel like you can do, which is just effort, that coaches will always be like, I don't care. This guy tries his ass off.

This guy brings it every night. I can put this guy on Shade Gilgis Alexander or I can put him on Eric Gordon or I can put him on Harden for a while or whatever. Ben Simmons is the hardest working, seems like he's the hardest playing player we have. And it's so strange

that he's the one who is in the eye of Soran here. If I was another GM, that would be the guy I wanted because I don't feel like he's 100% on the right team, but I do think, he reminds me of somebody like Lamar Jackson where if you're going to have him

you have to build the perfect team around him that completely makes sense and one of the things you'd have to do is you'd have to have shooters everywhere you'd have to have him be almost your offense low post guy who also handles the ball and is your point forward but then on defense is guarding everybody.

And it would be a hard roster to put together, but there is an outcome for him to be the best player, I think, on a finals team. Sure. Yeah. Surround him with shooters and other playmakers. Yeah. The Horford thing was really weird though because I really liked the size

and weirdness of this team before this season. I was just like, man, they're just going to be impossible to play. But when you watch them day in and day out, and then I started thinking about what made Horford good on the Celtics versus what was frustrating about him. He's a pick and pop high screen guy. Right. With somebody like Kyrie, that was a pretty unstoppable play for us

when both of those guys are doing well. And the Sixers team, who are you afraid of stepping out with Horford? Like Kyrie would pop out and then he'd take a three. Nobody on the Sixers can do that. No, it's literally like Trey Burke. So I don't know how you use Horford.

So now he's just this dude who's standing 28 feet from the basket. Right, so that's something that they should have thought about when they were going. Seems like it. This is why maybe, and I know that this has been discussed a lot, but like, a guy like Brogdon would have made more sense on the Sixers than Horford, you know? And it's why, I mean, I was kind of... And could you have,

you could have had him, right? I mean, we could have made him run at him. Milwaukee probably would have thrown their bodies in front of that one, though. I would imagine. I'm sure that they were much more worried about him going to Philly than they were about him going to Indy. Yeah. It's worked out way worse than I thought it would.

But we're still like, what were you, like 24 and 10? No, I know, but I'm saying like, with the Horford thing. Oh, the Horford thing specifically. Yeah. I don't know how that one gets fixed. And really the only way it gets fixed is like if Embiid got hurt for three weeks and Horford just became the center,

you're like, oh, that's why we got him. Well, we'll see a couple of games without him. Because I don't think he's going to play against... I mean, I doubt he plays against Boston after seeing the pictures of his hand last night. Also, just like... What's the point of having Horford if Embiid is like,

I got to tape my dislocated hand up and go back out there last night against Oklahoma in January? That's the kind of stuff that drives me nuts. It is like, I got to tape my dislocated hand up and go back out there last night against Oklahoma in January. It's like, that's the kind of stuff that drives me nuts. It's like, sit. Let's be a flip switch team. Like, if that's what we are,

then don't have Joel Embiid going out there with one arm against Oklahoma in January. Right. And then Brett's like, oh, I was really impressed he gutted it out. It's like, why is he gutting it out?

Somehow, like, we've managed to draft five guys who needed to take a year off before they could start playing NBA basketball, but when he's actually back here, he's like, I've got nine fingers, but let me go out there and play against Steven Adams for 40 minutes. It was so stupid. The Chris Paul thing, that could not

have worked out better for OKC, because I actually do think he has trade value, despite how crazy his contract is. How fun is that team to watch? Oh my God. Like they just pick and roll constantly. And that three,

when they run Schroeder, SGA, and Chris Paul, it's sick. It's really fun to watch those guys. And if they added one wing and they have the ability to do it because they could trade

Roberson's contract, they could trade Denver's first round pick, which is going to be in the 20s and just try to steal somebody for a year. Because their wings are bad. But when I watch them, I'm always thinking,

all right, I really like the three-guard thing with Gallo and Adams. If they had one more guy, this is now a team I would not want to play in a playoff series. No. I don't think they could win the finals. If they could duck those two LA teams, thoughoff series. No. I don't think they could win the finals. If they could duck those two LA teams

though in the playoffs, I don't think... I think they would give Houston or Utah some fits. Because they're weird. Oh, yeah. They're just an unconventional team. It's like, oh, you have three fucking guards out there at the same time, and then Gallo, and then Adams doing Adams stuff.

All three of them. Well, Schroeder and Paul especially are such irritants on defense. Like they're like fighting each other to guard the other team's best guard. I feel vindicated by the Schroeder trade because I still never understood why Atlanta did that. And I guess it was like,

hey, we're going all in on this Trey Young guy. We're just going to pay Carmelo $28 million to go away so we can dump their Schroeder contract Schroeder's good, why do you want to get rid of that guy and if he was on Atlanta now he would probably be their third best player but he must have been a dick

he'd be their second best non-PED I think everything that Atlanta did that's another fork in the road thing where they're just like every single decision we're making is based on this premise that Trae Young is going to be the next Curry. And you go, well, or you could just take Luka Doncic as the next Larry Bird.

Well, Vary and I were talking about this yesterday on the NBA show where it's kind of, it's how interesting it is to see all these teams who've basically gone all in on youth and they're all kind of flying a plane with no windows. It's like it's working out for Memphis.

You look at like Chicago, you look at Atlanta. But why is it working out for Memphis? I don't know, lower expectations? No, because John Morant's really good right away. Jaron Jackson was one of the best guys from last year and they actually make sense together. And then they actually have good veterans on that team. They have guys that I don't love,

but they're guys who play hard and know what to do and how to play basketball. And this is like the Celtics got fucked again because they had Sacramento's pick last year. Sacramento is just randomly awesome. We have Memphis' pick this year that was top six protected, unprotected next year. And she's like, just suck for one more year.

You're in a really tough conference. And no, John Moran had to turn into like 2014 Westbrook. No, actually John Moran's going to make the playoffs. unprotected next year. And she's like, just suck for one more year. You're in a really tough conference. And no, John Moran had to turn into like 2014 Westbrook. It's like, no, actually John Moran's going to make the playoffs. And it's like, if they had won the Zion lottery, Zion wouldn't have played,

you know, he would have gotten hurt. And then they're a bottom five team. But you know what I mean though? Like it's like a bunch of teams who have turned the keys over to like first and second year players. And it turns out like having veterans really matters.

Yeah. Which we've known. Yeah. But then we just forget year after year. It does it turns out like having veterans really matters. Yeah. Which we've known. Yeah. But then, then we just forget year after year. It does. It's like New Orleans got better when they started playing Derek favors more than Jackson.

Yeah. Derek favors. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. It's, it's, uh,

I think it's been a really entertaining league past season. I enjoy watching pretty much every team, even a team like Washington. Like they beat the Celtics last night. Ishmith was out of his mind. It's also, you never know what new reason Isaiah Thomas is going to get ejected. Yeah, he's feisty.

But it's been really fun to watch these young guys because I do think we have a lot of talent, but you're right. There's like a rudderlessness to so many of these teams. Even Phoenix, when they look good for about a week at the beginning of the season, it was because Aaron Baines turned into this Euro Championship center that always kills America. Yeah, it was like Baines and Rubio were kind of steadying the ship there rather than it being Josh Jackson and TJ Warren have to figure out how to be veterans immediately.

TJ Warren, another guy that was given away who had 36 points last night. But one of the reasons I think this Philly thing is so important, I don't think there's a favorite this year. People are like, the Clippers. It's going to be Clippers or Lakers. And I'm kind of like, is it? Because the Clippers, you know, this whole load management thing that they're doing, which I get, they don't have any continuity at all. Those guys don't play together, you know, for nine straight games. They're not developing anything because it just seems like, oh, Kawhi's not playing tonight. Oh, Paul George is out tonight.

And it's just like, it's never a team that's going to rip off. Doc's trying to squeeze in a quick front nine. Yeah, seriously. But it's not a team that's going to win like 15 straight. And I think that's a real advantage for teams like the Celtics, Philly, Miami. Yeah, but you wouldn't be surprised

if they did that in the second half of the season though. The more I watch the clips, the more I feel like we get seduced by their upside, the Knights that they look awesome. Right. And we kind of overlook the Knights that they don't look as awesome and the reasons for that. Like, they're pretty undersized. Harrell's 6'7". Yeah, I mean, especially in a series against Davis.

If you played them in the finals, if you somehow got there, the amount of size that you have, I think would be a real issue for them. Those finals games would be like 78-72. Oh my God. If the Clippers and the Sixers played each other. They're more,

I mean, that's another kryptonite team for the Celtics because their wings are just better than the Celtics wings but the Celtics at least we know those guys are playing together all the time the Hayward injuries

set them back just because they lost that continuity to that but I think over the next six seven weeks as they have those guys and they know the team

those guys are just playing together night after night after night it's a real advantage I think it's an advantage for Milwaukee too like the Lakers are trying to win the regular season championship well they're making They're just playing together night after night after night. It's a real advantage. I think it's an advantage for Milwaukee too.

The Lakers are trying to win the regular season championship. Well, they're making a mistake. And playing LeBron like 38 minutes on a Wednesday. That's just stupid. I don't agree with that at all. And that's a team. I wouldn't do load management with them, but him playing more than 31 minutes in a game at this point in his career is nuts.

And same thing for Davis. I think what Milwaukee's done with Giannis has been genius. You know, they're just like, you're playing 32 minutes. That's it. Right. You're coming out for eight minutes a half. We're not discussing it.

This is what Jerry Sloan is doing. John Stockton. He was just coming out at the five 30 mark of the first quarter in the third quarter. And I'm putting you back at the nine-minute mark. And that's just how we're doing this. And I think the Lakers should be doing that with their guys. And everyone's talking about, oh, Kuzma, what are they going to get for him?

Kuzma's never been that good. This has been all Lakers PR hype. That was such a weird story yesterday, the circle of life that Kuzma for Bogdanovich story went through yesterday, where it was like, this is happening, and then it was like, this is absolutely not happening. Because Bogdanovich story went through yesterday where it was like, this is happening. And then it was like, this is absolutely not happening. Because Bogdanovich is way better than him. But you could also just like feel the phone calls going into like different NBA Twitter

guys like to refute the story. It was wild. I was on a text story with a couple of Celtics fans and all of us were getting flashbacks to Pau Gasol in 08. Oh, yeah. Bogdanovich isn't as good as Pau Gasol. No, but it's just like... But it's one of those like, really? They're going to get Bogdanovich for Kyle Kuzma? Are you

fucking kidding me? That's going to be the trade? They have no other assets to throw in. But it seems like Sacramento... I don't know why. He's a restricted free agent this summer. I don't know why they just wouldn't keep him and figure it out. Is there any team that we're not talking about or not thinking about as possible sellers? Like I keep

looking at Portland and wondering. Sellers? Yeah. Like I'm wondering if Portland. I think Detroit. Yeah, but what's Detroit selling? Derrick Rose. I think Derrick Rose could be, yeah, that's a perfect example of a guy like for your team could be a real. For chemistry? Yeah.

No, but he's a point guard who, if you're watching these dumb league pass games, he really does look like the old Derrick Rose some nights where you're like, oh my God, he can go by anybody. Get to the basket on every once.

I think he's, he makes like seven and a half million. So I think he's at least a chess piece. Portland, I don't know what they do. Yeah, because I'm wondering, it would be silly to sort of break that team up at the mid-season trade deadline. You might as well just go through the season

and figure it out over the summer. But it does feel like it was like a little bit of a false dawn to get to the Western Conference Finals. And now that they've kind of like, they tried to rebuild on the fly around Lillard and McCollum. I'm not really sure what they're going to do. I mean, their

defense is so bad. I guess they could try to tighten that up, but they're still playing Melo like 25 minutes a night, right? Here's my hot Portland take. Just punt on the season. I wouldn't trade anybody. Just be like, it's not our year. Nurkic got hurt and he wasn't able to come back.

Collins got hurt. We just don't have it. It's fine. We'll get, we'll get an awesome lottery pick. Maybe they should be going the other way and thinking like, Hey, damn,

why don't you go record another rap album? We'll see. We'll see you in September. I'm looking at the, at the big ass contracts, the expirings. So Atlanta has like 65 million of expiring contracts and a team that sucks and a team that's going to be a bottom five. That's a team that could take a chance on one of these expensive guys

to give salary cap relief to a team that wants to dump and basically start over. And I don't really know what their game plan is other than to just get Trae Young fantasy stats. It's an entire franchise motif built around. We need, we just got to get trade 28 and 10. We don't, we don't care about wins or losses here.

Big, big draft Kings. Stay out of his way. Denver has Millsap at $30.3 million and Plumlee at $14 million. Memphis has a bunch of expirings that they could help out. The Knicks, people know what's going on with them.

Phoenix has the $19 million for a Tyler Johnson expiring that could go in a variety of ways. I was thinking if Philly wanted to just dump Horford. They're not going to do that. No, but I'm saying if they did, if they were like, this doesn't work. We have to get out of this contract because we're going to be fucked for the next couple of years. And we don't feel like he's valuable anyway. And they want to do like a Tyler Johnson and Baines for Horford type thing.

It's in play. I said, like, I threw out Horford for love yesterday. I don't know how that helps anybody. I know. God, what a bummer for Al Horford. My dad, I was talking to my dad about Horford this weekend because he loves that Horford's unhappy. He's like, yeah. Grass isn't always greener, Al.

I was like, all right, settle down, dad. Washington has Mahimny at 15.4. Portland's got Whiteside at 27, but I don't know what's going on there. And then if you look at the actual trade pieces, Horford, 28.9 this year. Otto Porter, 27.2. Holliday's 27.

Aldridge, 26. Oladipo, 21 million. Just throwing it out there? He's got a year plus next year. And I was thinking, that's where it's a bummer that Ben Simmons' contract can't be traded because you could have a lot of fun

with some Oladipo, Ben Simmons, all that stuff. Aaron Gordon's 20 million. Miles Turner's 18 million. Miles Turner's $18 million. Doesn't up to Sixers. And then you start dropping into that Morris, Reddick, Mills, Covington, $15 to $11 million range. My point is, I don't think there's going to be a lot of trades.

Okay. I just think there's no... The $10 to $17 million range just isn't there this year. So if you're the Celtics, it's like, do you want to throw Marcus Smart and then patch together four other trades

to try to get Kevin Love? Like, why would they do that? Why would you do that? Yeah. In a million years. And if you're Philly, you can't really patch together anything

unless somebody wants to go for it. I also think the lack of a clear, clear like title favorite makes it so that people are going to be like, let's see what happens over the second half of the season. And the buyout guys are going to be like let's see what happens over the second half of the season. And the buyout guys are going to be more important

than usual. And if Cleveland is looking at Tristan Thompson in February and they're just like alright I guess we could save four million bucks here. And he goes to Dallas

or something. Yeah do the right thing for him. I mean the Celtics would be the best possible. Right. That's the one where if they got Tristan Thompson, I would actually think

the Celts could make the finals because he's like the perfect big man who can roll the basket with his hands up for what they have. If you had to guess who makes the finals right now, who would you pick?

Clippers Bucks. So you'd still go Clippers? Mm-hmm. It's the best team I've seen this year. And also watching them just death by a thousand cuts, the Lakers on Christmas was very telling. I don't think they were close to their best on Christmas day.

And I thought that they were just like, they just had them. They just had their number. What do you think? I am scared the Lakers are going to make a Gasol 2008 type, how the fuck did they pull this off trade? Because I do feel like if they added one more guy,

they'd become the favorite. They need a swingman guy who can reliably make threes and show up in a big game, handle a little bit of the ball, but not necessarily a point guard. And just almost like an Evan Fournier, Bogdanovich, just European type guy who would just fit in with what they have,

but who really wouldn't be afraid in those four rounds. And I feel like that guy's sitting out there somewhere for them. So you're scared of that? It's not Derrick Rose. No. I know some Laker fans are like, you think we get Derrick Rose

because you thought it was Bogdanovich. They're one piece away. But I think a lot of these teams are one piece away. And I think for the Clippers, they're like a stretch four away. It's like if Jermichael Green was better

for that piece away. See, I think the Clippers are more of like a defensive-minded center away. But that guy doesn't exist, though. No. For what they're, the price range they're looking at. All right, so last words on Markel before you go.

I'm happy for him because it was just such a weird, sad story, but it's, it's another indictment on, on how things get handled in Philly. Do you think the biggest Philly, what if of the decade was Daryl Morey

almost taking that job in the summer of 2018 and getting talked out of it by Tillman for Tata Tita for Tita. Let's just go with for Tata for Tillman for Tata. Talk some out of it. You could have had more running your franchise. Chinese people would be able to watch the NBA. Americans would still have no idea what's going on in Hong Kong. That's right.

That's right. I I'm guessing he would have done everything possible to trade for Anthony Davis last year. Probably, yeah. As soon as that was on the table. You think he trades Ben Simmons for Anthony Davis immediately? Oh, fuck yeah. I think he's all in on trying to put Anthony Davis and Embiid together. You think Embiid's still moping if he's got Anthony Davis with him?

No. Why is Embiid moping? Is this like a 20-something? Because big guys mope. Is that generation? No, it's not generational. You think he's online too much? No, so many centers are like,

things aren't going exactly the way I want them to go. That's what it is? Yeah, big men. Maybe he just needs to find love. That's it. That's probably it. Is he a girlfriend? I think so, yeah.

Yeah, I think so. Is he online too much, you think? He needs to change his diet? Chris Ryan, we can... You're still cranking out the watch, right? Two times a week, bro. Cranking them out? Yeah.

And then we have rewatchables this week with Quentin. Right. We did Unstoppable with Quentin Tarantino. That was amazing. We just set picks for him for two hours.

Just like me for you here. And then you have another thing coming up that we haven't announced yet. Oh, yeah. That's exciting. I'm excited to announce that one. All right, Chris Ryan.

Later, Bill. All right, before we get to Wesley, with the new year officially here and everyone vowing to restrictive resolutions, Pepsi wants to usher in the new decade a bit differently by vowing to restrictive resolutions, Pepsi wants

to usher in the new decade a bit differently by encouraging everyone to unapologetically do what you enjoy, even in the face of others' judgment. So Pepsi encourages you to let loose, be yourself, and live your life like nobody's watching. You know, I'm going to give you an example of this. I'm going to talk to Wesley about movies in a second. I have some controversial thoughts about a couple of the movies that came out in 2019. I'm not going to obey the whole groupthink thing where everyone decides what the best eight movies are and then we all have the same opinions on them. I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that I'm not doing it I repeat

I'm not doing it I have some hot takes I'm gonna ignore the haters I'm sure people aren't gonna be happy but that's just what I'm gonna do because that's what makes me feel good to be honest about how I felt about the 2018 movies

Pepsi that's what I like and since we're here let's talk about Square they make that little white credit card reader that lets anyone take credit cards. But running and growing a business takes so much more than just payments, which is why Square has so many more tools that can help. Point of sale software for restaurants and retail businesses, online appointment scheduling for salons and yoga studios, easy to build websites to help you sell online, free sales analytics to help make all your numbers

make sense. Payments are the best in the business. No long-term contracts are weird frees. You always get your money fast, even instantly. All these tools are in one place. That's the best part. They're all built to work together, whether you're an online retailer, restaurant owner, hairstylist, skydiving teacher, whatever. Square has tools that can help you no matter what size or stage of business you're at. See all the ways Square can take your business from square one to whatever's next and be like Kyle's barber, Fernando. Fern Studios. At square.com slash go slash BS. All right, let's call Wesley. All right, on the line right now, my old Grantland colleague, Wesley Morris. He is a critic at large,

cultural critic, whatever you want to call him for the New York Times. And he wrote my favorite piece of 2019, a defense of Gwyneth Paltrow, which was super important. We just talked about her on the rewatchables on Talented Mr. Ripley, but I think she is the most underrated actress of the last 20 plus years. She does not act anymore. It bothers me, but it really bothers you.

Did you get good feedback for that piece? Cause there's so much antipathy toward her. What was the reaction? I think people seemed a little initially, I was a little terrified that it was one of the few things I've written where I was a little nervous that I was either wrong or crazy. But then, you know, I, it did, I didn't write that thing in a half an hour. I had a lot of time to think about whether or not I wanted to write it. And to be honest with you, I had been wanting to write this since since a girls in hoodies podcast about

Gwyneth Paltrow. Oh, wow. Going way back. Or tested Emily and Molly were talking about Gwyneth Paltrow. Oh, wow. Going way back. Cortez and Emily and Molly were talking about Gwyneth Paltrow, and they were doing the thing that made the show great, right? Which is like,

they didn't all feel the same way. Yeah. And I don't remember who was where on Gwyneth Paltrow, but I definitely felt like the thing that nobody really connected was...

I don't know. There just was something about her that was deeper than people were giving her credit for having. And then Taffy Ackner wrote that really interesting and smart piece last year in the New York Times magazine about Goop and about Gwyneth Paltrow's relationship to Goop and about our relationship to Go being a business person,

her choice to stop acting, and whatever Harvey Weinstein did to her. Yeah. And I just felt like those things were somehow connected, and it's only up to her to explain what the true connection is. But there was clearly a moment where she goes from being one of the best actresses working in movies

to Iron Man's girlfriend. Yeah. And I don't know. That seems to me to be a choice, and I don't know how much of a choice. I wonder if Gwyneth Paltrow started Goop because my life is so much better for her having done it. Um, but I think as a person who had her, when she was at the height of her acting power, there was just nobody who could do with the thing that she did. I mean, that's the sort of great thing about lots of actors, but she had things that she could do that lots

of other people couldn't do. My wife and daughter love Country Strong. As does The Ringer's Liz Kelly. The 10-year anniversary is coming in December, and I added it to the rewatchable schedule.

Because it's a fascinating movie, and she's unbelievable in it and then Garrett Hedlund who really hasn't gone near a role like that

since in any sort of significant way where you felt like wow that guy's really somebody he's great in that movie and I

there's a lot of can I just do a really quick Garrett Hedlund impersonation yeah I don't think I can make my voice deep enough I'm just gonna tell you for a few minutes that I thought your song was really good Can I just do a really quick Garrett Hedlund impersonation? Yeah. I don't think I can make my voice deep enough. I'm just going to tell you for a few minutes that I thought your song was really good.

Kelly, Kelly, you can really sing. You can really sing. Well, so he, that's like his, if we're doing rewatchables, that's his apex mountain. Leighton Meester's in it. Oh yeah, for sure. Leighton Meester's in it coming off Gossip Girl and she's really good in it and then Tim McGraw's really good in it and it's a really good movie and it kind of came and went

and I don't know what happened with that but yeah the fact that she could make a movie like that she could be the lady in town to Mrs. Ripley where she's just really great in that movie and then as you pointed out in the piece, she was always in peril in these different movies.

She had this seemingly perfect life that was about to be uprooted in some way, like bounce, which I think is another one where she's really good in. She has this husband who all of a sudden dies in a plane crash. And it turns out Ben Affleck switched the seat with them. But it's always something bad happening that shattered her perfect life. And this is what she did for five, six years.

And if you took her, if you took that version, the 98 to like 2011 Gwyneth Paltrow, and you threw her in the 70s, right? And she's basically competing with Meryl Streep for all the roles that are available there. Maybe she's the girlfriend in The Deer Hunter. Maybe she's Dustin Hoffman's wife in Kramer vs. Kramer. I do feel like there's links to her and Meryl Streep, even though Meryl Streep's the greatest actress of all time.

But the parts Meryl Streep would pick, I just wish Paltrow had done that for 30 years instead of 11. Does that make sense? Oh yeah, that totally makes sense to me. I feel like she had, she could do anything in the 70s, she in the, or in the eighties, I could see her in Clute.

I can see her in the deer hunter. I could see her in the pumpkin hunter. I could see her in, um, the pumpkin eaters, which is not a movie that anybody needs to really watch. Did you ever seen that movie? Have you seen that? The pumpkin eaters and Bancroft and,

uh, Georgie Scott. I don't know if I saw that running around New York city is like the best. Wow. Um, you know, she could have done any one of those Neil Simon plays. She could have been in all those Altman movies. Um, I don't know. I just feel like, but you know, Wow. she basically got it. I mean, her competition for the range of time

that we're talking about, like 1997, like 96, 97 to, oh, I don't know, 2005? Yeah. 2001? Yeah, I'm with you. I've been watching, I've run out of movies to rewatch. I realize there's only so many times I can watch Heat So

I've been diving into the Late 60s and the 70s a little bit more And I just read this book About Mike Nichols that was really good By the way I'm trying to read 75 books this year That was my New Year's resolution Oh yes It's one every five days and I'm on pace

It's just basically I read fast so it's like an hour 20, but I read the Mike Nichols book in like three days and it got me really intrigued by The Graduate, which I hadn't seen in forever. And I watched that again. And that movie is an incredible rewatch. It's 53 years old now. The Anne Bancroft character,

I'm so fascinated by, I'm so fascinated by her performance. And it was the thing that jumped out to me the most. Cause I think people mostly feel like it's the Dustin Hoffman movie. And watching it, I was like, no, this is the Anne Bancroft movie.

She is unbelievable in that movie. And the whole movie itself, it's definitely saying something about this whole generation that for the first time was expected to just graduate college and then get married and have kids and just be like their dads were. And Hoffman's character is

the first of this generation to be like, wait, I don't know what I want yet. And, oh, there's this cute girl. I'm just going to follow her. And he kind of goes off the rails. And now it's a movie that's been made for 50 straight years and all these different ways. But, um, it got me excited about movies again, going backwards. I'm rambling. Oh yeah. I mean, Anne Bancroft to me, I mean, I don't want to sort of be blatant about connecting Gwyneth Paltrow to Anne Bancroft, but there is a person who, if Gwyneth Paltrow needed to have some other lane to go down that isn't the one she created for herself, I feel like

Anne Bancroft is a pretty good one. I agree. And the thing, I'm actually curious to talk to you about this just even briefly, just because I can remember every time I watch that movie. Also, I found her confidence like all through my life. Every time I watch that movie, the thing that is never not exhilarating is her. And there's something about her knowing what she's doing and the control that she's trying to have over him. And also the performance itself is about the sort of maintenance of control over her own life and over this kid. And she understands the power of sex in a way that he really,

really doesn't. Right. And I think that the, the sort of latter version of those movies that we got in like the nineties, um, where, you know, the American pie movies invented this idea of a milf or like popularize this

idea of a milf, you know, they, that, that Jennifer Coolidge character is supposed to be funny. Whereas we weren't laughing at Anne Bancroft in The Graduate. We were, I mean, there was something sort of, I mean, it was, it was hot, but it also was a little bit intimidating.

It was extremely intimidating. Um, maybe even something more pejorative than intimidating. Yeah, menacing. And what's... Yeah, yeah. Bringing it back to Paltrow, I think she's one of the rare actresses that in the earlier stage of her career

could have played the Catherine Ross part. And now in the stage of she's in this decade, probably could have played the Anne Bancroft part, right? Yes, yes, yes. Well, here's an interesting question, Bill. Yeah. And I, you know, I'm, I, one of my, this is where I am in my life right now, where, you know, the question that I'm always asking is like, could this happen again?

And if it were to happen, who, who would do it? And if you were doing the graduate now, I mean, I'm sure that a lot of people are going to hear me ask this question. They'll be like, well, there are the following people who could do it. But I wouldn't be convinced. You'd really, I'd have to have a screen test. Because I can't think of anybody who, when Van Bancroft made that movie, she was sort of at the height of her fame and maybe even the height of her acting, her movie star level acting. And the height of her looks. She looks amazing in that movie.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And she was all, well, the other thing is that you, I can't remember, there's a really great story about her being cast in that movie in Mark Harris's book about the year 1967. Yeah. And those, and the movies that came out that year called Revolution at the, oh Jesus, Pictures at a Revolution. Yeah. Five movies and the birth of the new Hollywood, I think is the exact title.

Anyway, there's a story about her casting in that movie. I don't remember exactly what it was, but I don't think she was really anybody's first choice for that part. No. And there's something about, I think that's also why she's so good, which is that nobody, nobody, I mean, she knew that nobody thought that she should be in that movie, maybe. Well, the Nichols book really got...

But I don't know who does Mrs. Robinson now. The Nichols... She does it seriously and is good. Of the current actresses? Yeah. Of the current actresses? That's the shadiest question you've ever asked rhetorically. It's rough. I mean, it would have to be somebody late 30s, early 40s that we have a little history with.

I mean, Angelina Jolie is a person that comes to mind because she's got baggage to bring with the part. It's her seven years ago though. It's not her now. And now she's probably too old, but. I don't know. I mean, cause age doesn't work the way the thing, the other thing that was sort of shocking about that movie was just how old, how old is Mrs. Robinson in that movie? She's not even that old. You don't even really get yeah, because everybody gets married

when they're 20, 21. It's a great example, rereading about, you know, in the Nichols book about, the chapter about that movie, how many things has to go right with a movie where they basically stumbled into Dustin Hoffman.

They never felt great about it, but they couldn't really think of anybody else. So he gets it. Catherine Ross, pretty limited actress, and I think they about it, but they couldn't really think of anybody else. So he gets it. Catherine Ross, pretty limited actress. And I think they knew it, but they also didn't care because they just wanted somebody to be just angelically beautiful. And they kind of edited around her and made it work. And then in Bancroft, they look out with. But one of the things that was shocking in this book was Gene Hackman roomed with Dustin Hoffman and Robert Duvall in New York City. And Gene Hackman was cast as one of the dads initially. And then they ended up pulling the

part and giving it to somebody else. And it was awkward because they all lived together. And I'm thinking like Dustin Hoffman, Robert Duvall, and Gene Hackman all lived in like a shitty New York City apartment together. How is this like a seven hour documentary? Can you imagine those guys like grocery shopping? How is this possible? And also Gene Hackman was a young person at one point in his life.

I just thought he was born 50. But everything else seems right. 67. That Harris book, I'm going to have to reread that book because I was looking at the Oscars that year and that really is the first good modern movie year. We had the graduate and Bonnie and Clyde in the heat of the night. Guess who's coming to dinner. There's still a lot of good ones.

Uh, which brings me to this year's movie year, 2019. Am I wrong to say this was an awesome movie year? No, I feel like every year we, we get to this point and we're sort of like we take stock of everything. And it's always a better year than we remember it being. Yeah. But this year is like especially, this year was especially good. But, you know, I'm also guilty of looking at, for a reason, I was about to listen to the Dunkirk conversation that Sean and Chris have with Quentin Tarantino. Yeah.

And I just like to, I was going to make a point about 1917 and Dunkirk, which we can get to later. But you go back and you look at that year, which is, what, 2017? That was a really good year, even though I didn't even like a bunch of them. I'm just looking at the Oscar nominations. I didn't even really like, I really hated at least one of those movies. But the other eight nominees, I really like.

Eight of them. Well, I'm going to, I'm going to give you my top 10. You can react. Well, actually, before I do this, we have to have it out about Uncut Gems. Uh-oh. Well, you didn't like it.

No, I didn't say that. Oh, I thought you didn't like it. I heard through the grapevine you didn't like it. I am not a Safdies Brothers person, but I felt like if you're ever going to not mind them, this is the occasion, at least for me. Okay. Well, they pulled out an incredible Sandler performance,

so you have to be grateful for that, at least. Oh, sure. But I don't, I mean, can I just say, I don't really know that it's hard to do that. I feel like just nobody tries. Okay, that's fair. I feel like he's been good in this mode at least for other people's movies. It's not like they cracked some code.

They're good directors who know how to direct actors. He's not the only good person in the movie either. Are you happy that I came around on The Irishman? Wait, can we go back to Uncut Gems for a second? Okay. Go ahead. I mean, I really like tension movies, and these guys are always trying to,

the Safdie brothers, they're trying to figure out ways to stress you out. I felt like this, to me, was the most successful version of that. Um, but then a friend, my friend Nick made this really interesting point, which I, which I, I felt, but didn't, couldn't put my finger on until he articulated it, which was that he watched that movie and left and thought like, is it bad that I was more, I really, really cared about this guy during like the gambling

sequence at the end and then didn't care when the other thing happens. And I was like, Oh yeah. Interesting. Is that kind of how I felt? I felt the same way. And I don't know if that tells me where these filmmakers priorities are in terms of creating a feeling, but not really caring about the people that much. I feel like they're good at creating worlds and capturing worlds, and I felt like the Diamond District that they bring to life in this movie is really great.

I just don't think they care about the people necessarily. I don't think, I mean, I'm not like, this is not a knock against them that they're not humanists. I don't think all directors have to be humanists, but like, think about how much more interesting that movie would have been if Sidney Lumet had actually directed it instead of like this sort of Sidney Lumet like thing we get. Shots fired. I don't know. I feel like... That's fair.

I don't know. I like them, and I'm curious to see what else they do, but this is the first thing I've seen them do where I was just like, okay, I get it.

I have nothing... I have nothing but excitement for whatever the next thing is. Are you happy that I came around in The Irishman? Oh, my God, yes. I was nervous because... I blew it.

Well, first of all, we need to talk about the ways that you watched it. Yeah, I blew it. The first time I blew it. I wasn't 100% locked in attention-wise, and it was on, and there's a lot going on, and I got distracted by the CGI, and it was just a really, really long story with a lot of components. And there's just certain movies you have to see

two or three times before the jigsaw puzzle falls into place in your head. And then you can start really looking at it. And for me, it was the second time I knew everything that was going to happen. I knew he was going to get old at the end, all that stuff. I understood the big reveal and then I was able to actually watch it. And I was like, oh, okay, I get it. And, you know, could it have been 20 minutes shorter? Yeah. But I think the three hour range was probably the right length for what he was trying to do with that movie and stretching and all that stuff.

I still don't feel like the CGI totally worked. And it was really hard to tell the age difference with De Niro depending. Basically, you had to judge it by if his hair was darker or not as dark. But when you consider the history of it with going back to Casino and Goodfellas and Scorsese and De Niro and just having all these guys in the same movie, once I was able to come to grips with the plot and how long it was and what was going on and just kind of enjoy it for that, it just kind of made sense to me. And now I get it. Well, we'll thank God. Yeah. Although, I mean, I'm very open to people not liking this movie is it's very it's i'm i don't mind that yeah um i think that i've i've two sort of big thoughts

about the irishman like we can we can we can talk about the details later, but I just want to present two thoughts about this movie. One thought I'm presenting is just to counteract the sort of complaints about the CGI and about the Lent. And that is basically, and this is going to kind of maybe ruin it for anybody who hasn't seen it, but stop listening and come back or whatever. But the movie, I won't actually spoil it. Come back, come back, come back. I won't spoil it. I'll just talk around it. But the movie is essentially presented as a rumination on a thing that happened, right? You are watching a man speak, but you know this in the opening scene, he is talking about his life, right? And there's something about, I, anytime, and I gotta, like, the next time Scorsese does this, I will not roll my eyes, because after, between the 3D and Hugo, and the special effects in this movie, I just, I understand this man's attraction to, to certain aspects of technology, um, or like,

like new technology. And the appeal here to me is like in Hugo, the reason to do the 3d was just to send that train toward your eyes, but off to the side. So it's even more exciting when the train doesn't hit you. Um um i feel like in the irishman the way the special effects work are essentially to get as close to me as a movie has ever gotten to the way you remember your life when you tell a story i'm not as i'm not as old as de niro is in this movie um But when I am in my 80s, I imagine that one thing, I have a 91-year-old grandmother. I talk to her all the time about things that happened in the past. And one day I said, Granny, who do you see when you tell me these stories?

And she's like, I see me. And I'm like, but Granny, what does that look like? And she's like, I see me. And I'm like, but Grady, what does that look like? And she's like, well, it's like, it's like what I looked like. It's what I looked like in 1948 when I gave birth to your mother. And I'm just like, I, but she, she's like, it's some combination of my 90 year old grandmother, my 91 year old grandmother and my grandmother when she was 20 or 19 years old. And so the way that De Niro, even that stomping scene, which, by the way, Nitsua Bebe from the New York Times Magazine wrote my favorite thing about maybe the Irishman, but definitely about the technology and the CGI in this movie. And that kick at the stomping scene. You can find it now. I'll make sure. Anyway, you can find it. It's a stomping scene Scene N-I-T-S-U-H. Find it on the internet somewhere. It's New York Times Magazine. Anyway,

I just feel like there's something about the way that the CGI works to sort of function, to facilitate the way we remember things having happened according to something that isn't entirely real, but is real to us. And it isn't so much to call into question the factual nature of what we're watching. It's just that it is, he found a way to visualize what memory looks like to the person remembering it in a way that isn't also um i don't know i mean some some cinematographers have really good lighting tricks um for that or some directors want a cinematographer who's got a lighting trick for that um i think that using the technology in that particular way to sort of make the faces simultaneously middle-aged and old and also sort of lit from within, but not like accurately or authentically whatever age they are in the year that they're behaving. I just found that really fascinating.

And I guess the first time you watch the movie, it's off-putting because it does look strange. But then you get used to it and it's better. Yeah. Yeah. So what else did you like about it? Well, once the first viewing was able to set what happens in the head and I was able to watch it.

And, you know, I'm not the first person to make this point, but it's really a movie about when you get old, reckoning with the choices you made, you know? And at some point you're going to be there. And if you cheated on your wife and she divorced you, not that he did this in the movie, but instead of having a marriage where at the tail end you're there for each other, it's just you by yourself, those are the choices you made.

And at some point you're going to be in a bed or on a couch and reconciling, oh, I should have treated this person better. Oh, I shouldn't have done that. Or conversely, oh, I'm so glad I did this, this person better oh I shouldn't have done that or conversely oh I'm so glad I did this this this and this because now as I'm looking at the tail end I still have these people around me who love me and I

have these great memories and that's really what the movie's about and like we talked when we did once upon a time in Hollywood about how important that Margot we talked about it on a podcast a couple months ago, how important that Margot Robbie character is and how stupid people were when they were like,

she's been marginalized. She's the most, and it's like, no, you guys are missing it. She's the most important character in the movie because it's all about the hope and excitement of the start of your career. And that's what Tarantino cared about. And that's why he did that movie

because it was about the hope of the beginning of a career versus when you're facing the mortality of the end of your career and he's going back and forth between those two things. And I think if I'm asking myself, why does Scorsese want to make this movie?

I think it's probably because he's at a point in his life where he's starting to look back now at 45, 50 years of movies and decisions and all that stuff and starting to reconcile with it. And that's why this was so important to him. That's why he didn't care how long it was. So I support it. I get it now, but it took me, I I'm ashamed to say it took me two viewings. That's pretty, that's not bad at all. I mean,

especially given where you started out, you know You know, it's not a movie. This is the unfortunate thing about, this is the other sort of largest thought I had about this movie. It kind of sucks that the thing that we have to talk about when we talk about The Irishman is a thing that we didn't previously have to talk about with the Scorsese movie, which is, did you watch it right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just where we are as a society, though. Yeah, I mean, this was the Roma problem, where people were, like, starting the movie and then, like, going to go to the store or, you know, take a bath and then finish the movie for a little bit more, which I guess is how, you know, we've always watched movies in some way, given what happens when they leave the theater. But I think that when that is the sort of predominant way that you experience something that maybe wasn't meant to be watched in, I think just the change of our viewing habits in general deserves a certain kind of cinematic filmmaking. And I think Once Upon a Time in Hollywood

is like that too, right? If you watch that at your house and you stop three times, yeah, it's different. Yeah, I'm with you. It's funny, in that Nichols book, they were talking about this one Broadway play he did. Yeah, he's the best,

probably one of the best two Broadway directors ever. I think it was Hurley Burley, where it was like five hours. Oh, I don't think Hurley Burley's that long. Maybe he was producing it. I can't remember the play, but he's fighting with the guy who wrote it about cutting out the scene

because he felt he was so adamant that if he got rid of the scene, the length of the movie made more sense, but it chopped it to like four hours and 40 minutes. And I'm thinking like, can you imagine if somebody did a play now that was four hours and 40 minutes? Like, Hey, who would sit through that? Like seven people. But I think with the attention spans, you know, the Harry Potter show is all day. That's Harry Potter though. Those people are nuts.

Wait, I want to talk about best of 2019, but we got to take one quick break. Hey, turn your dream into reality with Squarespace. Squarespace makes it easier than ever to launch your passion project. Whether you're looking to start a new business, showcase your work, publish content, sell products, and more, Squarespace, the tool for you. Beautiful templates created by world-class designers and the ability to customize just about anything with a

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That's squarespace.com slash BS. Offer code BS. All right. So I don't think you've finished your list yet or have you? Well, I was going to listen to you talk about your list. I was going gonna give you my list i know you're you we're gonna do some stuff early february where we'll have to go through the top 10 important caveat the one movie i haven't seen that i have to still see is 1917 which after after when nuts in the golden globes i was like oh jesus um it was on the list and it never got there. So I assume it will be in there. But as you know, I like to make these lists not based on how,

what I felt like the best movie was and the content. It's just what I like the most. This is the what I like the most list, which if it overlaps with best of 2019, so be it. So I have six at the top. Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, Uncut Gems, The Irishman, Ford vs. Ferrari, Little Women, and Marriage Story. That's my top six. And I'll make the case for Ford vs. Ferrari because I think that's been either

in or out on people's list depending as you know I just like when movie stars are movie stars sometimes and I think it's very important

every once in a while to make a movie where it's just really well done big ass movie that's fun to see in the theater

and have movie stars being movie stars and if you just do that for me every once in a while I'm really happy and that was what that movie was to see in the theater and have movie stars being movie stars. And if you just do that for me every once in a while, I'm really happy. And that was what that movie was to me. It's just Bale and Damon, really good race car scenes, really great story.

I learned a lot. Wasn't too long. I was just satisfied when I left the theater. And I don't think it'll get any sort of, any Oscar stuff, but I just wish they made more movies like that. So that's my top six. Are you surprised by anybody in the six?

I'm surprised that you liked Marriage Story as much as you did. Well, it's a child or divorce. Okay. So no, those are all great. Um, I feel like if I were, I did not make a list this year and I have to say, I'm very happy. I didn't have to deal with that. But, um, so I like everything on your list. Although wait, I think I'm missing one. Four verses, Ferrari, Irishman, marriage story,

once upon a time in Hollywood. Uncut gems, Irishman. So you, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. Uncut Gems, Irishman. So you probably had Parasite where Uncut Gems is. Parasite, okay. I like all those. I mean, Uncut Gems, I would not put on my top 10 list. I mean, that movie is basically created for me. It's Adam Sandler, Kevin Garnett, Mike Frances is in it.

It's tense. There's the 2012 Celtics. There's a huge gambling plot. Like what else would I want in a movie? Maybe honestly, there's good looking actresses. Like it's basically, it hit every check mark I have. Uh, the next, I will say there's an amazing scene where he leaves the wife and the kids in the car to go into the apartment of the mistress. Yeah.

And he sends the son into the... Like, the stress in this movie is very, very high. Yeah. But there's a moment where he goes into the mistress's apartment, and do you remember the song that's playing when he goes in? No. I don't know why i remember this but like a reason the reason to not for me to give up on the safty brothers given how little i i believe in them is when he goes

into the apartment they're playing i i swear i think it's madonna's rain is playing on the sound system and they let the song play while he's in the apartment for most of that scene. And I'm like, you know what, you know what's happy brothers. I'm, I'm going to stick with you. I'm not going to give up. There's something up. There's a kind of filmmaking where, or there's a kind of filmmaker where you just like,

there are little choices that, that, that, that a director can make. I'm very easy. You do one little thing. And even if I'm not crazy about your movie, I'm with you. And this was the, I'm sure that like the Sean Fennessey's and my friend, Eric Hines, who was a very big safety brothers fan. Um, they're hearing me say this and they're like, well, there's a thousand of those in any of the other Zafdie Brothers movies. But this for me was the moment in my, you know, Uncut Gems experience where I was just like, yep, okay, I like you guys.

I was surprised. That is the billest movie ever made. It really is. I was surprised how much I enjoyed Little Women. And I thought it was really well done. I thought it was well cast. I thought it was well executed. It was a story that they make every 20, 25

years and it's really hard to mix it up. It's going to be basically the same movie every time, but they really managed to make it feel like there were themes in it that resonated with 2019. I was just impressed. I wasn't sure why they were doing it. When I saw it, I was like, oh, that's

lame. Don't do that. It felt like the Winona Ryder one came out 10 years ago. It was really 25, but I was impressed by how good it was. Okay, I will go back to a year ago when I heard that this was the thing Greta Gerwig was going to do after Lady Bird.

I believe I'm on the record with you guys being like an extremely ardent lover of Lady Bird. I think, I think that is just one of the most beautiful, special American movies I've ever seen. And there are so many great scenes in that movie where you just are like, beautiful special American movies I've ever seen. And there are so many great scenes in that movie where you just are like, I don't even know how she did this.

I don't even know how it occurred to her to write the scene and then to like, to get Laurie Metcalf or Beanie Feldstein or Timothy Chalamet or Tracy Letts or Saoirse Ronan, any of those people to like bring that stuff to life. Yeah. Um, I just, it is, it is just, I mean,

I'm getting, I'm kind of tearing up just thinking about how much I love Lady Bird. Um, so when, when I heard that she was going to do little women, it was a little bit like, you're trying too hard. Yeah.

It was like, ah, this, your agent talked to you into this. Well, well, see, but I didn't think that actually, you know, I really didn't think that what I actually thought was I knew immediately, I knew immediately why Greta to call Louisa May Alcott intellectual property, but I don't mean it to sound like it's star Wars, but I do think there is something about Greta Gerwig being such an original voiced filmmaker that, that the idea, like I would have expected her, or I would have hoped that she would have made the equivalent of Jordan Peele's Us, right? Like a movie that's so not adapted from anything except his own imagination and curiosity about who we are as human beings.

But in a weird way, she basically did do that. This movie is so alive. And it is such a smart way of thinking about a thing that we take for granted as a work of popular culture in Little Women. And asking these real serious questions about these sort of feminist questions about women and work and women in marriage and women in relation to each other, like they're, they're biologically sisters. But the question is like, is there a difference between biological sisterhood and like cultural sisterhood? And like, if there is a difference, what should the differences require you or obligate you to do for, to, um, on the, on behalf of your sister. Um, I don't know, man, she can also open a scene. Like she, I mean, open a movie, like, like not box office wise, but like the opening scene of the film, she knows, she knows how to like take your breath away in the first five minutes of a movie um just that shot

of her standing in that doorway or like outside that door stealing herself or whatever is about to happen in on the other side of it we don't really know what she's doing except if we've read the book we kind of know um i don't know i i just i really i so love this movie. I'm so tired of like reading these stories about why men aren't going. Who cares? Oh, but that movie doesn't, I mean, men should see the movie, but I don't care. Like I saw this movie, the second time I saw it, it was with a room full of women and I did not care. It didn't feel like a crisis to me. You just summed up one of the many problems with internet discourse as we head into 2020.

That was an actual storyline that people were writing about and just pissed off and angry about that not enough people were seeing little women. Not enough men. Whoever. You can't get mad because somebody doesn't want to watch something. It doesn't take away from how good the movie was. It's like, look at it a different way. All right, these people are morons. They're missing out on a great movie.

That's it. It's over. It doesn't have to turn into this whole cultural discussion and a way for people to once again, look at themselves and go, where are we? What are we doing in life? And this whole victim culture thing that's happening now, it's like, all right, people fucked up. They didn't go see this movie. So what? It's still a great movie. We should still be delighted that it exists that not everything

has to turn into like the be all and end all discussion I don't know I think people are going to find this movie and it's going to

really matter and it's going to have long life and it's like you know my daughter who it's hard to get her

to sit through two hour movies like she fucking loved it and she's 14 and if you can hit that person and me in the same room, like that movie is going to have legs.

Yeah. I mean, I think it's just like, it's shot, it's made in this way that just like, even though it's set, you know, in 18, is it 1864 or five, six? I mean, you know, it's not just, it's, it's, it spans time, but, but essentially it's set in the sort of antebellum reconstruction. Does that apply in, in, in whatever that post civil war during that, during, in that post-war period. And it's the first one of these little women movies to actually make the war and the family's relationship to the war make sense. You know, the way that you have these like, like good New England people sort of talk shit about the freedmen, which are, you know, it, it is, it is, it is just, it is a very, um, the, the ambience around what is actually happening in this country while also sort of focusing on the lives of these, of these women, um, is also really interesting.

I, as a black person do not need a movie to acknowledge every single horrible thing to happen in this country. Because, you know, Louisa May Alcott was able to write that book under these circumstances without really, while being aware of what was going on. I think the movie's responsibility is to acknowledge the thing that Alcott acknowledged. And Gerwig does, I think, an even more sort of evocative job of making the climes of the country seem realer without going too far. And when I say too far, I mean doing something that then calls into question why she didn't go even further. Right. Um, I think it's just a perfect tonal moral balance of, of keeping in mind this horrible thing that is happening.

Um, while also looking at these individual people who are living a life during this time. Um, it's a really good movie. It, yeah, it's okay that it wasn't

nominated for a Golden Globe and here's why the fucking Golden Globes are terrible they're a joke they're the worst every year the fucking guy who played Elton John won he won best actor you're mad that Little Women didn't get nominated

for a Golden Globe it's an idiotic award ceremony the Taurus got nominated for a golden globe. It's an idiotic award ceremony. The tourists got nominated for a golden globe once you're mad. Like be mad if it doesn't get nominated for an Oscar, cause that would be outrageous. It was one of the best movies. But even then America don't, I mean,

are you, why be shocked? Why be shocked? Because you know, to the point, to the degree that it matters, this man question, um, to the degree that it matters, it does matter in terms of how the academy functions, right?

The academy is still, I don't remember, I don't know what the new numbers are, but it's still, like, not accurately reflective of what the gender split is in this country. It's still, I don't want to offer a number because in my brain I think it's like 80% and it could still be right, but maybe it's still 80% white or 80-something percent white and like 60-something percent male. I don't have that great USC

survey with me. Yeah, but it's still, nine movies can get nominated. It's going to be one of the nine and we're fine. Yeah, it'll probably be one of the nine, but I feel like, but it's still, nine movies can get nominated. It's going to be one of the nine and we're fine. Yeah, it'll probably be one of the nine, but I feel like, but I think that this question, this is why you have to see 1917, by the way, because I think the way that that movie is functioning and the way that we remember the year is almost kind of as like a moral corrective about the way we watch our movies. Even Sam Mendes' speech at the Golden Globes when he won, when the movie won,

I think it was his, I think it was his, I think it was the winning the best drama, Golden Globe. And his speech was basically like, y'all need to watch a movie in the movie theater. You need to watch it. This award is for, this is for the way you should be watching movies, not this other Netflix Irishman marriage story aroma way. You need to watch it the old-fashioned way by paying money and going to a theater and sitting in a seat and seeing this amazing gimmick that I've created that I actually, Wesley Morris, I think is really, really great. But I think that the thing, like one thing that's going to happen with these movies this year is this question of like this idea

that it exists in all of them. I mean, not all of them, but a lot of them. That Little Women sort of stands somewhat opposed to, right? It's in Joker. It's in the Tarant, right? It's in Joker. It's in the Tarantino movie. It's in Irishman. In some ways, it's in 1917.

It's in Ford versus Ferrari, which is just this, like, this sort of this bygone era look at men and white men and demise and this thing that's slipping away. And the thing that's amazing about Little Women is it's like, what happens to women when men go off to do something? I mean, as it turns out, kind of everything, and it's great. Well, 1917, that's the last piece for me. So I had a top six,

but I'm assuming 1917 is going to be in there by all accounts I'm really curious to hear your reaction to it but we'll find out I loved it and I didn't want to I have 4 movies rounding out my top 10 but these are second tier

and this is where the list starts to get a little wonky Parasite Waves Okay. And this is where the list starts to get a little wonky. Parasite. Waves. Perfect movie. Waves. I loved Waves.

Waves is great. I love Waves. Waves is great. I didn't know it was going to happen. I intentionally didn't read anything and it took me on a journey and I fully support it. Can I just pause you for one second? Yeah. For anybody who didn't see waves, I, I have been begging people to see this movie. It's not a secret. I really love Trey Erwarsholtz. I think he is one, I mean, because the movies are changing and there were fewer young directors to like, not go and make you know with all due respect to the directors who do wind up doing this he he has ideas and he has like things inside him

in his brain and his psychology that he wants to use filmmaking to work out and this movie is so attuned to the rhythms of a certain kind of male being. And then by extension to the rhythms of a certain kind of like teenage girl. I just, he's so good at thinking with his heart and making movies. There are so many shots in this movie that nobody's ever come up with before. I mean, with all due respect to Sam Mendes and Roger Deakins, who directed and shot 1917, it's true that nobody

technically has done what they've done, but nobody really has done what Trey R. W. Schultz has done in some of the shots in this movie. And, you know, the opening, not the opening shot, but there's a,

there's a shot near the very beginning of the movie. I've never seen that shot before. Have you? No. The camera sort of spinning around the car. No. And, and the way he used colors a couple of times too,

it was, it was really, Oh my God, the colors and the sound in this movie. It's really good. Yeah. So sea waves, my, my last two, this is in this movie. It's really good. Yeah, so Sea Waves. My last two, this is where this turns into a very Bill list.

I have Good Boys ranked ninth. I fucking love Good Boys. Good Boys is great. My son watched it 14 times. I just was, you know, maybe- That is Ben Simmons' Uncut Gems, by the way maybe That is Ben Simmons Uncut Gems by the way. That's Ben Simmons'

Godfather 1 and 2. I think it's just really hard to make a movie that is funny in the same way like some of the last decades comedies were funny

where you can't cross some of the lines that those things did but it's basically super bad for younger kids. And they do a nice job of really, really pushing the envelope without being completely insane.

And there's a real heart to it. And it's about friendship. And it's fucking funny. And I just really liked it. And then my last one. I like it so much more than super bad. You're never going to guess the last one Oh my god

It's a horror movie It's not us And it's not Midsommar Is it Black Christmas? No I didn't even see Black Christmas Should I? Is it one of the Annabelle movies Bill? No

Brightburn I never saw that even see Black Christmas. Should I? Is it one of the Annabelle movies, Bill? No. Brightburn. Annabelle Hang Up. Brightburn. Ooh! I never saw that. So Brightburn, it's basically the omen, but it's an alien.

So this couple really wants to have a kid and then all of a sudden, it's Elizabeth Banks and her husband. I forget his name. And then this spaceship-y thing crashes into their backyard. And it's, and this is their kid and it's a little baby and they raised the baby and it's their son. Sounds like an insane premise,

right? But it's like Superman. It's like, well, what could go wrong here? Well, a lot. The answer is a lot. And, like, well, what could go wrong here? Well, a lot. The answer is a lot.

And it was just, I didn't know what it was. And it was fucking scary. And my whole family was terrified by it. And it's just really good. And I'm surprised that it, I don't know how well it did, but I thought it was the best horror movie I saw this year. And I always like to put horror movies in the top 10 so there you go

honorable mention Hustlers I just for J-Lo I thought Constance Wu was terrible but I thought J-Lo was terrific Triple Frontier

everything I want from a Netflix action movie just wanted to shout it out High Flying Bird really liked that how inventive it was Long Shot action movie. Just wanted to shout it out. High Flying Bird. Really liked how inventive it was. Long Shot. The second time was better than the first time.

I just love Charlize. Agreed. And it allowed Charlize. It was like Young Adult. It let Charlize be Charlize, which I appreciated. I really like Peanut Butter Falcon. Ooh. And I was impressed by Knives Out. I thought there was a little too much hype,

but I thought it was good. And then the last two I have, Us on the second time was better than the first time. And I think he did a lot in that movie that I, the first time was just so weird. Second time, you're like picking up stuff and, and your girl is fantastic in it.

And then Midsommar. She's great. Midsommar I never want to see again. But was just the most fucked up movie I think I've seen in five years. And everybody should see it. Who likes Kyle? Did you see it? No.

Do you like fucked up movies, Kyle? Yeah. All right. There you go. It's the craziest breakup movie anyone's ever made. I'm going to say that. Yeah. I mean, if the poster had just said that instead of that beautiful, artful thing they did,

if the poster had just said the most fucked up breakup movie you're ever going to see. Yeah. That's what they should have done Yeah It has a really great start It has a really great start I just did not feel like There's a lot of filler in this movie That

Does not need to be there But it has to be there to get To build something To get you to that, to that really bizarre ending. It's one of those movies that now I saw three weeks ago. I still, it's kind of a lot of stuff is still etched in my brain and I kind of wish it

wasn't. I wish you could take a pill and I just would never think about this movie again. I never want to see it again, but it, it was just really unique in a lot of ways. And I thought that guy, he also did Hereditary. He's good.

I wanted to give you my worst movies of the year, but I think we should save that for another podcast. I'll just let you know that Richard Jewell is on the list. Ooh. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I can't wait to talk to know that Richard Jewell is on the list. Ooh. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I can't wait to talk to you about Richard Jewell. And Mr. Rogers, that movie is not on the list,

but I just want to point out how disappointed I was in that movie, that it actually is a two-hour movie about some magazine writer that I don't care about. I was like, oh, I thought it was a Mr. Rogers movie. Oh, I didn't realize it was about this random fucking guy that I could care less about. And in the relationship with his dad. Oh yeah.

I mean, again, there's another thing I would have put on the list with these other movies, but I think Mario Heller who directed it is wonderful. I think she's a really good director. I think my problem with that movie is my hustlers problem, which is like, don't y'all know what you got in terms of like having these like really interesting people and you keep

upstaging them with, with journalism. I love them. They are not, we're not interesting. I mean, I don't know what your Richard Joel problem is, but I feel like we really got to rethink our relationship to like how, I mean, at least for Richard Jewell, it's not a device in court. Well, it is a device. It is a device in Richard Jewell. I feel like the thing with A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood is I just didn't care. I just didn't care. I just didn't care. Exactly how I felt.

It was like, why do I care about this guy and his family and whether his magazine editor is happy with how the features coming along? It's like, how the fuck is this a movie? What are we doing? Here's my problem with Richard Jewell. And then we'll go.

The movie hinges on Olivia Wild wild's character who by all accounts is factually inaccurate and maybe even in like a really severely libelously way getting information from john ham the fbi agent whose character is not a real life character, whose character does not exist in real life. This is the, all of the movie hinges on this. And it's like, oh, he's a composite of various FBI people. Yeah. The FBI didn't like Richard Jewell very much. We don't really have any real evidence that this is the case. So we've all compiled into John Hamm's character who is now being seduced by the super slutty Atlanta reporter.

Who's not actually that as a super slutty and this didn't happen. And this is your movie. I, I, everything you're saying is a hundred percent true. How is that? It's not recoverable. Uh,

I have two weaknesses when it comes to movies. I have several weaknesses, but, but two of them include such things as changing the aspect ratio in a motion picture, which Wave does at the halfway point. The shape of the screen changes and the image in the screen then changes.

Thing number two, Cappy Bates. Yeah, she's great. She's so good in this great. And I really, She's so good in this movie. I really like Olivia Wilde too. And it makes me mad that that character is just so deeply flawed.

And I'm not one of those people that usually gets carried away with shit like that, but this, people will watch this movie and think this is the story of Richard Jewell, you know? And it's like,

this was not the story of Richard Jewell. What is this? Yeah, I think that your problem with the movie though is not about whether or not those things are true or false the problem that i think you have with the movie because you could make a similar argument about the irishman for instance right um right? In terms of like what's true and what's not true about the Irishman. Yeah.

Yeah, but the thing is, that's an old guy making up probably two thirds of the shit in the movie, which I think is basically acknowledged, right? Right, exactly. That is part of that. But I also think that it's like, it bothers, it also bothers you

because it doesn't work in the movie right it doesn't even seem who like i don't know what's true or false in richard jewel i just know what strikes me as as a problem mechanically yeah and mechanically it just didn't it didn't make any sense to me like it just that the way that that's the way that you'd be conducting business in order to for the for Clint Eastwood and the screenwriter to tell a story um yeah it was just like they had to figure out how to get from point a to point b and somebody came up with the idea in the room and that's how they I thought it was really embarrassing and it you know it'd be the equivalent like first of all the Richard Jewell thing is a big deal. This isn't some random little story we get to mess around with. This was an enormous story

in the 1990s. And it's the equivalent, like if you, somebody made an OJ Simpson movie and in the movie, there's this fake female character on Johnny Cochran's legal team that sleeps with Chris Darden and convinces him to have OJ try to try on the glove the next day. And this is a pivotal scene in the movie. Everybody would go, that's fucking crazy. How is this in the movie?

This is an OJ movie. You can't have that in there. You made that up. And in the Richard Jewell, it's like, yeah, here's this scene we've completely made up that's a pivotal part of the movie. So anyway, I'm out.

That's one of my 10 worst movies of the year. I will give you, I will give you the other, uh, the other nine. The next time we do this on a pod, which will be before the Oscars. Cause I have, I have a couple more controversial selections in there. Uh, Wesley Morris. I look forward to seeing you a couple of weeks. Thanks as always for coming on and still processing, even though the season is over, right? You can listen to all the,

uh, the recently finished episodes. All the old episodes. We're going back into the studio, uh, ASAP. Great. Thanks for coming on.

Appreciate it. Anytime. Talk to you later. Bye Kyle. All right. Thanks to Chris Ryan and Wesley Morris. Thanks to zip recruiter. Thanks to square square is more than a little white credit card reader.

It's a whole system of tools built to run and grow any kind of business from point of sale and payroll to invoices and online stores. Go to square.com slash go slash BS to see all the ways you can take your business from square one to whatever's next. And thanks to Pepsi with the new year officially here and everyone vowing to restrictive resolutions. Pepsi wants to usher in the new decade a bit differently by encouraging everyone to unapologetically do what you enjoy, even in the face of others' judgment, like me in horror movies.

I'll watch any horror movie. And then sometimes it pays off, like with Brightburn. Pepsi, that's what I like. We'll be back on this podcast one more time on Thursday. Big football round two preview, plus the rewatchables, Unstoppable with Quentin Tarantino.

That's coming late Wednesday night. And if you didn't listen to Book of Basketball 2.0 with Steve Nash, please do. See you on Thursday. I don't have.