The Bill Simmons Podcast - A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

Episode Date: March 23, 2025

The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo to discuss the Bulls shocking the Lakers on Saturday night and reexamine the 2024 NBA draft class (4:01). Then they discuss the Cavaliers' four-game losing streak and wonder whether Donovan Mitchell could lose his first-team All-NBA spot to Anthony Edwards (35:43). Finally, they discuss their biggest NBA "sliding doors" moments of the 2020s (58:49). Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Ryen Russillo Producers: Kyle Crichton and Chia Hao Tat Order Michelob ULTRA today, available on Doordash! ENJOY RESPONSIBLY © 2025 ANHEUSER-BUSCH, MICHELOB ULTRA® LIGHT BEER, ST. LOUIS, MO. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Ideally, they'll be the ones who also root for my teams. Plan A Winning Vacation, make it a Virbo. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I have new rewatchables coming up because it is still sports movie month. So we did Blue Chips. It was me and Van Lathan and Chris Ryan. And the reason we did it was because

we did it like in 2017, we didn't even have the categories yet, so we decided March Madness, let's just go, let's bring this baby back. So much fun to talk about. You can watch that as video podcasts on Spotify, you can watch it on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel as well where we also put up a reaction on the Happy Gilmore 2 trailer

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I am going to Boston in a couple of days because we're doing a live rewatchable at House of Blue. We were doing good will hunting for everybody coming to that, uh, to that live show. We did good will hunting, I think in the first two years of the pod, but way more categories. Plus we got Riscilla this time, perfect movie to do in Boston. And then we're gonna have a Coolidge Corner film festival, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, check out the ringer.com slash events. There's still some tickets left, I think,

for some of the movie stuff. Me and Sean and Chris are gonna be there, probably talking after a couple of the movies. So there you go, Coolidge Corner all weekend. I don't think there's gonna be a live show with me and Rossello on Sunday night in Boston. I think we're just gonna do the pod regularly. We'll see though, you never know.

Could there be a last second live show? Maybe. Anyway, we're also brought to you by Fanduel Sportsbook where they have these player performance doubles, two leg parlayas made for you specifically taking NBA player prop. Like Luca is going to score 30, the Lakers are going to win and they have a ringer player boost token on these placed on any of the games. of the games. Um, and it's good if you hit them and there's a lot of good games on Tuesday, including Dallas and the Knicks and Golden state Miami. So stay tuned. I'm going to tweet out my pick on Tuesday. Be sure to claim the ringer PBT in the carousel and the fiendish sports book app this Tuesday. So coming up, the original plan for this podcast was we're going to do two thirds of a podcast and then, uh topper after OKC Quippers tonight.

So what happened? We started taping at 10 45 AM Pacific time and we just kept going for two hours and we just had a full podcast. So we're just going to put it up. So I hope nothing absolutely insane happens to OKC and, uh, and the Quippers in that game tonight, um, that we regret not talking about, but this is how we landed it's a very good podcast. It's all coming up next. about, but this is how we landed. It's a very good podcast.

It's all coming up next first, our friends from ProJet. All right. We staggered this podcast. So this part of the pod we are taping at 11 a.m. PT. We want to do some 2020 sliding doors. I also wanted to tell you about the Bulls Lakers game I went to last night. Did you happen to see any minutes of that game? Yeah, I watched the entire second half. So the Bulls first of all, are turning into a very belatedly fun end of the

season league pass team because they kind of know who they are and they play really fast and they have two good guards that attack, attack, attack. And you could tell pretty early, this wasn't going to be the Lakers night with the way, how hard the bulls were playing and how much they were attacking the rim, they're all setting threes. Um, it did make me wonder if there was a little bit of a blueprint in there to beat this Lakers team with go, go, go, keep pushing, keep pushing, keep attacking. They don't really have a rim protector.

They don't really want to run up and down. They want to slow things down. And I was trying to think of anyone else in the West that could basically replicate that and it's obviously okay. See, and it may be last night and I don't know if it's over reaction or not, but last night made me really think like, I think, I think they would be in a heap of trouble in an okay. See series with the athletes and the speed and I'm not positive they can match it. Couple things.

Um, the bulls were incredible last night. All right. And the Lakers defense is terrible, but it's the first bat or first came back with LeBron those games when he was out, you know, their net rating was negative. Their offense was 21st or defense was 19th. They still went three and four, I believe is the record. Uh, but that was like an all time game. I mean, Bezelis is so much fun that baseline movie had on Luca was, was

awesome. I'm giddy was close to a quadruple double the first one since David Robinson. They kept him in near the end. We were driving home and they were like, they're keeping giddy in, in case he can get two more steals. So it's like, whoa, he was giddy was incredible. And by the way, let's take a victory lap. We were like the only two people in America

who liked that trade for the Bulls last summer. So I'm victory lapping that. And by the way, I have the people scouting tracks for the scoot victory lap near the end of the season. And improbable, I'd given up, but we both never sold our stock. And now I'm ready to run around the track and wave to our fans.

I'm not ready for that one yet, because I think we liked him so much. It was on the path to stardom, but it's pretty clear he's not going to be the worst player that plays minutes in the NBA, and he might stick around for a little while. That sounds like a victory laugh for both of us anyway. Man, watching the Lakers broadcast is really funny,

because you would have thought the Bulls were the two seed in the East. When Patrick Williams comes off a curl on the right side and hit that three of all people, you're like, okay, I mean, Chicago's just rolling. So back to your blueprint thing. You might be right. You might be right.

I think when the Lakers went, what, 18 and three, and their defense was like a top three or four defense in the NBA, I was like, are they really this good? And now that they're leaking a bit defensively, LeBron in and out of it, now that he's back, let's judge them based on this. I always find this time of year, these last 10 to 12 games, this closing stretch of the season, I don't want to say all of it is irrelevant, but I really feel like this is the time of the year where you can get tricked and it can be really misleading. And there can be just effort nights. Now whether it was that San Antonio Knicks game a couple nights ago or Mom of the year,

insane. And the Knicks were trying, like you kept watching that game and being like, all right, enough of this. Like the Knicks are going to put together a run and then they're going to figure it out. You have Cleveland who's lost four in a row, which I don't know if we'll get to that with some of the Mitchell stuff. So-

Oh, we will. Continue on the blueprint because I mean, is okay. See the blueprint to the Lakers or they just a lot better than the Lakers. Well, that's the thing I, but I do think there's people in the NBA and I've certainly considered the case that if you're going to beat okay. See, it would have to be with a pretty weird, different type of team that has a lot of, you know, guys who have been in big situations

and then a big physical hard team to play with multiple scoring options would be the case for LA against OKC. OKC hasn't been there. LA's not gonna be afraid to be on the road. What I saw last night, you can really use the defaults of Luca and 40 year old LeBron against them.

And LeBron actually was trying harder than Luca and he was trying to chase down blocks. Luca, he can get carried away with the refs. And yesterday he did. I thought LeBron looked great last night physically. He looked fast. There was that stretch before the two threes that made it a 23 point game when JJ just was like,

all right, enough of this. There was a stretch where LeBron was actually, like I was watching for that to be like, if he's just gonna, hey, I'm gonna get some cardio in. There was a stretch where you could tell on that one drive before he got to 23 points, it was like, okay, he still thinks they have a chance in this thing. So I thought he looked great.

And was playing hard. But yeah, I think if you keep pushing, keep pushing, keep pushing, they're gonna start to bend a little bit because they don't wanna play that way. And the other thing they did was they pressured Luca, which I don't understand why teams don't do this against the Lakers, I don't understand why they don't want to play that way. Um, and the other thing they did was they pressured Luca, which I don't understand why teams don't do this against the Lakers. I don't understand why they don't do it against Boston with Tatum.

Anybody that has a non-point guard dribbling the ball up. I don't understand why it's not 80 feet of pressure. Uh, Giddy was in, was in and around Luca all night. Luca was just getting more and more pissed. Finally got a technical, he must've shoved them three or four times. They were talking shit during the free throws. And that's another way to get at this Lakers team is you can really fuck with Luka.

He takes everything personally. You can just be like, hey, like think about OKC, like hey, Lou Dort, just fuck with Luka this whole series. Just stand around him, stand next to him in timeouts. Luca is like a big, can I have my personal space guy? Uh, and Giddy was just not having it. So I thought, uh, you know, look, they played out of their minds. And as you said, they were making crazy threes.

Um, the Bezellas thing is, is a real wrinkle. I don't think that's an overreaction thing. Um, but anyway, I was just thinking like blueprint wise, athletes wise, okay, see, that's the game they're gonna watch. That's the game they're gonna show their guys. Like watch this, watch what speed and athleticism and pace can potentially do if we meet this Lakers team.

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Workday, moving business forward forever. All right. So this is a no prep segment. I did not do prep for it either. I just thought of it last night watching Boazella's who I really, really, really like, and I was just like instant right now, blink test redraft. Let's do a top eight. No, no prep whatsoever. Just top eight gut feeling.

Um, my one would still be castle. Would your one still be castle or is there anyone in this draft you like more than him? Um, yeah, I, I'm not, I'm not ready to put Castle one. Um, even though I know he's rookie of the year and there's just a toughness and maturity to his game that feels like a really good bet as far as the floor. But I like what I've seen from research, so I still think he's number one.

Interesting. Okay. Would it make the case for research? Cause he's not making a little, and now it's, now it's coming back a lot. I think. Yeah. Which I think it's to be expected. There are just nights where I see him in his activity.

Like, I think what you always worry about with somebody who's just still in unknown is like, is he going to be overwhelmed by all this stuff, you know, physically? Is he just going to sit in the corner? Because I mean, look, even when you did the draft tape of him, there was plenty of games. You're like, is this guy just going to sit in the corner? Like, what the hell's going on here? And it's not like I was watching 20 full games of him before the draft, but it was pretty clear early on that his, his comfort level

was a little bit higher despite, you know, his physical disadvantages. And I just think at that size and that kind of shop making there's a, that's the reason why that guy goes number one. And that's why even through a rookie season, there'd still be a lot of teams would be like, give me the ceiling of that guy, not just his spot up ability, but off the dribble at that size. And yeah, I mean, it's overused, but he appears to get it in a way that you hope when you're drafting somebody this high, like, okay, like, you know, there's certain guys that come in and immediately, you know, like, uh-oh, and, uh, I don't have any of those concerns when I watch him.

So I don't like, even if Castle would probably be the popular pick and maybe everybody's right, do you understand the ceiling part of it for his size and shooting? Yeah. That Castle doesn't have. Right. I had him in the Blink Test, no prep. He was number two to me. And I just like Castle a little more because I can see him as a top three guy on a contender down the road.

Reese Ache, probably. The hoop sack, he's there. I like that he's always moving. He's not like, I don't hoops IQs there. I like that. He's always moving. He's not like, uh, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm just going to stand over here. Like he moves. If there's, if they'll get it, if they get a rebound, he'll take off.

Like he'll try to get, he'll think like, uh, Oh, it may be if I bust my ass on this, I'll get the ball and I'll be able to get a dunk. I don't think Trey, I think Trey is both fun to play with sometimes and then really not fun to play with other times, but, um, he seems like he's getting better. So I would have him, I would have him second. And I think that's a pretty good pick for them. I, where this gets interesting is the third pick.

Cause I think those are clearly one too. I would have Castle first. You'd have Reese's shape first, but I think that's the one too. But the third from what you've seen, who would you take? Whoa. I think this is where it gets hard. Well, you were probably driving home thinking Bezele's last night. Am I right? But I also saw Saur a week ago and I'm like, Jesus Christ, this guy's

surge of Baca with three point range. Like this set, this looks great. But, uh, I look, I've watched Bezelis on TV a few times, like really like watch. I actually like watching the bulls full confession. Uh, I was excited to see him in person last night. And of course just randomly saw the best game he could possibly have. I don't really know what he's missing from that position because he can shoot. I like his stroke.

He goes to the basket. He's really athletic and there's a little bit of a fuck you to him that I really saw for four quarters last night. Like he's not afraid. He's, he's, it's a little feisty. Um, and I just could clearly see, I see what he is for the next 10 years. And I think they nailed that pick. So for me, it'sar or him for that third spot

and I'd probably lean toward Bozele. Yeah, I guess the Saar part of it is he's just getting so many more opportunities because they don't care. But through the last four months he's shot it really well from three and he takes those threes. I do worry a little bit at times when I've watched the Wizards where if it's a close game, I don't know that they really care.

And then like, hey, Sarr is gonna get into his bag and pull up. But he also might think like, if I don't shoot it, Jordan Poole is just gonna shoot it. So I might as well do this. So, I think always the fear is whenever you're drafting kind of these unknowns and even Risa Shay, when we were doing the draft,

I was like, this is just crazy when you think about this draft, like somebody like this is going number one overall, but then it was, you know, right back to the argument of saw or read shepherd who can't even get minutes with Houston right now, who I think of Reed were playing somewhere that didn't care. We would probably still be leaning shepherd third. Right. If he was like the wizard's point guard instead of Jordan pool.

Yeah. Yeah. Or, you know, whatever team, like, but sell us is just not going to have. So it's just not going to have the opportunities that SAR has and SAR's rebounding three point shooting. Like I've talked about, he's really only had one bad month with, with all of this. Um, you know, it wasn't a great start, but as you can say the same thing for research, I mean, research is shot at really, really now, the entire second half of the season. So I'll still go SAR third because just at that size

and that shooting and how much I personally think that like you're a completely different team when you have a five out center, when you have somebody that can stretch the floor, you know, a couple of years down the road projecting what you can do in the playoffs. I think it just opens a lot of stuff up. Like as much as we all like what the Clippers have done

that went against the Cavs, like I kind of get back to as great as Zou is and we all appreciate him. Does it kind of limit your looks when you don't have a guy that can stretch at the five and Saar is that is the hope is that they drafted somebody like that that can play defense. He runs really well. I mean, he runs the floor all night long. And I think that was, that's why that guy went to, even if it was really choppy,

watching him, he took the shots, which I guess is good. But now he's hitting them enough to justify like four to five attempts a game. You know, I trust Joe House on hoops. If he's actually watching as much as anyone in my life. And this has been really good. I want to back you up on that over the years, the text thread, when he has a very specific wizards observation, it's usually always on. Yeah. And this has been the case since the late eighties. And I think he was more afraid of the bus potential with SAR than anybody. And he's been saying all year, like he likes them.

Doesn't, isn't positive what he is ultimately, but there's definitely, uh, some Ibaka stuff in there and he's not afraid to shoot and his strokes pretty good and you can kind of see what he is. Like he was drafted as a stretch five. If they were lucky enough to get flag in the draft, you put him, like Sara would be the ideal guy to put flag next to, I would say, um, with those two together, so it feels like they have something. All right.

So you'd go SAR three, Buzellus four, and I would go Buzellus three, SAR four. Sounds like. Yeah, that's what it sounds like. I mean, at some point here, we have to mention Kaleo where. Well, I thought the guy we haven't mentioned yet is McCain who got hurt and was looking like the most ready rookie and is only, I don't even know if he's 20 yet. Um, but I think from what we saw from McCain before he got hurt, I, I, I might take him above Reed because I know Reed's not playing and I know

it's not his fault and I know it's probably not a great situation for him. But I also think it's weird that he's not playing. I thought it's not like Houston does need him. And they had a stretch where Van Vliet was out for a few weeks and he still wasn't really playing and maybe he's just a guy that needs big minutes and isn't capable of coming off the bench and playing 15, but. I promise you, they thought they were getting a little more from him this year than this with the shooting, you know, that's fine. And when he, when he finally got minutes, that one game where he was really they're getting a little more from him this year than this with the shooting, you know? That's fine.

And when he, when he finally got minutes, that one game where he was really decisive and you could just see all the special stuff with him that he is a really good athlete. And then when he was coming off the screen, it was actually a little bit like Bronnie in that bucks game where it's like, okay, well, if he's going to be decisive, I didn't, I didn't ever expect to see this and maybe it's being decisive. Like you can't just throw away all't ever expect to see this. And maybe it's being decisive. Like you can't just throw away all of Ronnie's attempts and say, oh, they

were down 30, like who cares if he's decisive because he was decisive earlier in the game. Um, but Reed had that game where he went off and you could tell he was reading how they were playing him coming off the screen, where I think when you're a young player, you're not getting any minutes, you're not even like looking at that stuff, you're just going, all right, you know, what's the read and should I just get rid of this ball? He was really good with that.

I also can see it as an EMA thing where young guard, I'm just gonna beat you up here. Yeah, you're not playing defense nearly at the level I wanna be at, so you're just not gonna play, sorry. Yeah, and they're fighting for playoff seating throughout all this. McCain is Yeah. And they're fighting for playoff seating throughout all this. McCain is 21. 21. Yeah.

Reads, reads 21 the summer. So, you know, a lot of these guys, they come in a little bit older now, but, um, yeah, I think I'd still go shepherd just because of the shot making, but McCain, you're right. I mean, it was the only good story of the Sixers all year long. Like, I guess I just don't feel like in March after the draft of saying the only guys that produced have to be ahead of all of the prospects that aren't even getting opportunities and just be shuffling it based on shot attempts.

Yeah. I'm saying it more from, I just loved what McCain was doing when he was playing. I see what he is. He's a combo guard. So you would take him fifth. You might be right by the way. So I'm, this isn't like me pushing back. I don't know if either of us are necessarily even right, but I think I would take him

right now over, over Reed, but I think it's close. And then after that, we move into this, you know, you got bub Carrington, you got Jalen Wells, the kid on Memphis. Edie's still there. Ware is still around. Uh, Eve's Meesee. Yeah. Meesee on, uh, on New Orleans.

Um, Ron Holland, the fight starter. And then Klingen, I think would be the kind of the next group. And then it becomes a question of what do you like? Quinton post. Quinton post. Shannon's out there. It's a weird, fun draft, but I think if we're looking at who has the best chance to be really good

coming out of this draft, I think we hit the top six. Is there anybody else? I think what's really interesting is how early the Dalton Connect story was, are you kidding me? They got this guy at 17, and the fact that they traded him that soon. Yeah. He's alarming that they were like, we're good.

Now you could argue, Hey, it was Mark Williams. Mark Williams version 2.0 has been better. We know the injury history with him. Uh, I agree. They should have still made the trade and their need and thinking, okay, well they've added look, like there's a glaring need, can you really make it through the playoffs and Jackson Hayes? But Jackson's life isn't entirely better now because you're playing with somebody

like Luca and it's just like, look, just show defensively attack at the rim, run the floor all night. He doesn't rebound though. You can see it last night. Like he's, he's great at alley oops. Kind of knows where to go and what to do. But the fact that he's turned into somebody who might be a backup for a long time though, it was a complete win considering how lost he had looked for

multiple seasons, but I think back to the connect point is those first few months. And right. You know, he's a mess on defense and yes, he's older because of his, his college travels, but it's like, I can't believe this guy got him at 17. Are we sitting here at the end of the year thinking he actually probably went based on the names you've already listed here, we hadn't even gotten to him that he kind of went in the range that you would still put him in today. Yeah, he's definitely, I would say, uh, you know, like he's after where there

was a three week stretch where it seemed idiotic that Miami didn't take connect and that they took wear over him. And now I think, you know, it's not, it's also not like Miami's playing well. The one that's, I think the most polarizing with different people I've talked to is clinging, whether this is just kind of who he is, a guy who can box some shots is a little slow, doesn't really have any offense or whether this is somebody that could potentially be the anchor of a really good team. And I think the fact that he's getting actual minutes for them and they've been a good basketball team for, you know, two plus months here and really competitive.

And I think he's a piece. I feel the same way about Edie. I don't know if they're ever, uh, you know, one of the four best guys on an awesome team. Probably not, but could they be in an eight man rotation on a really good team? I think they could. The Klingon thing feels a little tough, um, just because when you look at Portland and the number of guys out there that want to shoot, you know, Sharp should be shooting,

you know, Simon's is somebody that still bails them out of a lot of possessions. Denny's going to get his shots. You know, Scoot isn't shooting. Simon's is somebody that still bails them out of a lot of possessions. Denny's going to get his shots. Scoot isn't shooting. It's nobody wants to be Chris Paul. Their second season of their career. Well, it's tough when you're playing with Denny and Denny all of a sudden turns into Larry Bird. In the last six weeks when he looks like he's doing the 85 bird impersonation, it's unbelievable how good he is. Even he's saying like, I've never played this all my life.

I don't know what's happening. Banton had that stretch last year post Boston was like, man, this guy can actually really score, you know, he couldn't crack the rotation for Boston. And then you'll watch him where I don't think anybody gets happier when the game clock is with the shot clock off. Banton's like, awesome. Like now I don't have to pass this to anybody. So, Klingon's in a really tough spot.

Yeah. As far as like, you know, he might be the six best option when he's playing on the court offensively for them. So it, look, I think considering like it went from could he go number one to then he goes seven, you know, being stuck behind eight in Rob Williams update, he's got three to four weeks. Yeah, I just assume he's that playing. Yeah, right.

If you see him, it's like a bonus. It's like, oh, there he is. When did Portland get this guy? I know what you're saying. Like you'd like to see some higher like ceiling moments from him offensively, but I don't know that it's entirely fair to like, Oh, you know, this might, but maybe those guys are right. Cause I hear it too. Like this is you guys were nuts. He wasn't this good.

This is why he went where he went. And you know, he's a, he's a rotational big that they took this high. You're like, man, that'll suck. And so really it's a six and then it's kind of a, let's see, depends on who you like, but we should talk about Ron Holland for a split second, who was the fifth pick in the draft. Yeah. He is still 19 years old.

He carries himself like he's 32. They throw him out there. Like he plays real minutes every game. Sometimes he's pretty good. Sometimes he'll make some shots. He's physical. Um, he's a little early era. And I don't mean this in a melee standpoint, Ron Artest-ish.

Like actually reminds me of Ron Artest. Hopefully he won't go charging into row three at some point in his career. But they took him pretty high and I'm not against it. They took him fifth overall. We don't have him in our top six, but I wouldn't rule him out, would you? We'll say he's 19. No, but unfortunately the Scattering Report tracks on him.

He had some okay months as far as shooting, but he's also shot at 11% from three, he shot at 11% from three. Yeah. And in March, March he's at 7%. Now he's, he's, he's not really taking them as much anymore. I actually think that's like one of the funniest things about young perimeter players and they come in. They're like, Hey, you can't shoot.

And it's like, well, time to learn NBA games. And they just start taking threes because everybody just takes threes. And then you can see it get to some guys where you go, Hey, maybe you shouldn't be taking even three a game. So the percentages are even worse now because he's taking even less of them. But I'm with you. I love the aggression. And that's what you saw before the draft.

There is a no nonsense part of him. Isaiah Stewart, I don't know if that's the best teammate for him to have or the worst teammate for him to have. He's definitely going to be going into the other bench for the bench cleaning bra, who'd be the first guy behind him. But Detroit, you know, has spacing around Cade and that's what's opened up Cade. They defend, they shoot. So the Holland minutes, I'll admit, like I, I love. The aggression that drives the body size of like mixing it up with guys.

And like, there's never a moment of him where he's like deferring at the rim. Like he's trying to go for it. But, uh, you know, there's no way he's closing with the pistons. I would imagine in a playoff game, cause he's just not going to provide any spacing. Like everybody imagine in a playoff game, because he's just not going to provide any spacing. Like everybody imagine in a playoff series, how he would be defended. Like it just means there's another guy in Kate. Yeah.

He'll say he'll, they'll throw them out for a little five minute stretches. But yeah, I think the playoffs will be a little different. How many minutes do you think Ron are test played as a rookie in the 2000 balls? Like eight a game. 31.1. Wait, he did as a rookie on the 2000 bulls. Like eight a game 31.1. Wait, he did as a rookie. Yeah. Oh, I was thinking Jimmy Butler.

My bad. No, I would have said eight a game. Uh, yeah, he was 31% from three. Cause I loved him so much at St. John's that I don't remember playing that. But I also, I didn't have league past that year. So I can't say the 2000 bulls were on my TV a lot that year, but yeah, he, and he couldn't shoot either. There's same size.

He reminds me of him a little bit. Uh, any Bob Carrington thoughts before we move on? Yeah, I like Bob a lot. Keyshawn, Kai, Kai, Sean George. A lot of size, a lot of size for a perimeter guy. Quinton post could have like a 12 year career. Yeah. I mean, incredible, incredible scouting job.

And now he's the 50 second pick. Collier said a couple of moments on Utah. He was like, he was like averaging seven, eight assists a game for like a month. Yeah. I think he has a really nice, uh, handle drive combination stuff with him, but, but Utah has all like, it's another group of guys that all just think. You know, it's just a pickup game that never ends with the Utah jazz. Just 15 guys not knowing if they're getting run.

Who knows? We'll see how long Will Hardy enjoys that. And Dillingham just doesn't play. Shane and Jr. had some fun moments when people were out. And then talk to me about your, your Charlotte guy that you loved. Salon. It's just kind of a mess.

But you were expecting that. Yeah. In retrospect, six might have been a whiff too high for him. Yeah. I mean, he just, like, you know when he's out there. So we'll at least give him that. But, you know, it's just a lot of running around. You know when he's out there is not a compliment. Oh, I think it is.

I, uh, I think. Booze Ellis falling to 11 is probably like looking back at the draft. Who knows with all these dudes, they're all like babies basically. But, um, that's the one that I think is going to seem weird down the road. McCain, whatever we knew that McCain was is gonna seem weird down the road. McCain, whatever. We knew that McCain was falling too far as it was happening, but Bezalas, a team like Charlotte,

that would have been a really nice pick for them. Well, the knock was he couldn't shoot. He shot it better in the first half of the season as he's played more minutes, he shot it worse. Strokes there. But I would say he, yeah, I don't know, look, you don't have to listen to me, you can listen to Scouts, because whenever you first started watching him, I mean,

if there was an end one mixtape and that's all you were allowed to look at, he's the number one pick in the draft. Okay. So the more you watched him and Scouts are like, we've been waiting for this guy to shoot for years and he's never really been able to shoot it, but it wasn't just the dunk that he had on the baseline of Luca last night. There was another play later in the game where, you know, it was just really smart. Like that secondary cut, which again, if you're playing with Giddy, like

Giddy's one of those players. It's like, if you just stay active in the possession, if you just keep thinking that there's an option for you, you're going to be rewarded. And he had a cut off the left side on a Giddy drive on the right side where he was, he was rewarded for staying active. And at that point too, like the Lakers, you know, the kind of paying attention. Yeah, that whole team moves though.

It's really like that team is like, if I move I might get the ball. God, you love the Bulls. I did, I really did. I thought, look, it was the perfect opponent for them, but I've liked that, I mean, what have they won? Like seven of the last nine? They've been on my radar for a couple of weeks here.

Cause I've been trying to figure out playing stuff and I've been scouting some teams, watching Miami just on the cruise ship to hell and just thinking like, could any watching Atlanta a little bit, could anybody, you know, emerge and be a possible seven seed in a team that's playing the Celtics. And I think the, the bulls got the seven seed and played the Celtics, the Celtics would beat them, but that's not a fun series. And those guys will be running gun, go, go, go the whole time. I don't love it.

You're nuts. I'm just saying it's not a fun series. Not saying the Celtics would lose. I just, I don't like playing teams with gimmicks that are really confident in their gimmick. There's 31 and 40. Yeah, I know. What are they like eight of their last 10, seven of their last nine,

something like that. I mean, they traded Levine and they, they, they're playing better now. Yeah. By the way, your guy, your guy, you sold your stock on a couple of years ago, red velvet called the broker and like, just download it. Just get rid of it. Did I? Yeah, just get rid of it.

I don't want it. I thought we did a role play of that where I was like, we're still in. Maybe you're still in, I don't know. In my head, you sold it. I don't remember. I certainly haven't heard you talking about him that much, but Red Velvet seemed a little back.

Our pod got a little too white. We had a stretch there where I was like, dude, do you guys want Doug McDermott? And I was like, yeah, I love Doug McDermott. Let's have him on. And they're like, you got to hurt her. Six white guys started the game last night. Six of the ten. My wife just, cause

I brought my wife and she's like, is this unusual? She was stunned. I'm telling you, man. Things are changing. I've been telling Bayon a lot. We're coming back. Flag, we're coming back. That Best Buy ad with that rapper, that woman, with Buster, and then they went to her. Thanks again to Workday for sponsoring that segment. I had a good time.

Learn more at Workday.com. We're going to take a break and come back with more basketball. Hey, let me tell you about one of my favorite bets that Fando has right now. Player performance, that's the best bet. I'm going to tell you about that. I'm going to tell you about that. I'm going to tell you about that. I'm going to tell you about that.

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Hey, let me tell you about one of my favorite bets that Fandl has right now. Player performance doubles. We do them on Tuesdays. Two leg parlay is already made for you. Let's say you think Luca is going to score 30 and the Lakers are going to win in a game. Well, now you can bet on that because Fandl will take a player prop, add it with that player's team to win.

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President select states or 18 plus and president DC often required bonus issue does not withdraw But profit boost tokens restrictions apply including any token expiration and max wager amount see See terms at sportsbook.finder.com. Game problem call 1-800-GAMBUR. Or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by Mikulob Ultra. We are getting close to the NBA playoffs, which means we are getting close to the NBA finals. One of my favorite sporting events, not just because it's really fun basketball at the highest possible level,

but all of the historical legacy stuff. It's my favorite. You've heard me talk about on the podcast many times. Speaking of finals, Mikhail Aboultra has given me the chance to win tickets to the NBA finals, which I hope Boston is a part of. Not only do they make a superior beer, they're also helping fans like you get closer to the game. Mikhail Aboultra, superior is worth playing for. Check out mikhailaboultra.com slash NBA finals to enter for a chance to win tickets.

MikloBultra, courtside NBA finals, sweepstakes, no purchase necessary. Open to US residents, excluding Maryland residents, 21 and up. Ends on May 5th, 2025. See official rules at miklobulttr.com slash rules for price and detail message and data rates may apply void where prohibited. Um, other topic before we do our sliding doors thing is, is the Cavs lose foreign around Mitchell. I was saying that last week on this podcast to you, first team all NBA was in

Penn and the Mitchell, the second half of the year stats for him are bad. The Cavs tailing off a little bit where they're not going to be the best team in the league. Okay. So he's going to take that spot now. And is that Mitchell's spot open for you for top five MVP and then first team all NBA?

All right. Make your first all first team NBA case. Cause I was, I was a little thrown off by this last night. Cause then I did the work this morning and I'm actually kind of fascinated to know what your, your group. So Mitchell on the best team in the East have a chance to win in the mid to high sixties, 24 points a game, four and five, 44%. 37 from three.

He's played plus 10.9 net. Only playing 31.4 minutes a game, which is not his fault. We always talk about it on NBA. You can't penalize guys because their teams are kicking ass and they're not playing fourth quarters. But in the second half of the season, since the All-Star break, I think he's shooting 30% from three. Eye test wise hasn't looked as,

as, oh, I can, when I want, I'll snap my fingers, I'll take this game over for you. That hasn't been happening the same way. And Edwards is playing really well. And Edwards would be the guy, if you're gonna say who's taking the spot. Edwards is- That was the only guy I could come up with.

You didn't tell me who you were suggesting as another alternative to Mitchell. And I was like, I'm at a loss. Cause obviously it's not Brunson with the games thing. Luca clearly isn't even close in the games part of it. As much as we all love Steph, he's not first team this year. So Ant is the only one that I could come up with. Ant's the only one.

Ant's up to 28 a game. He's shooting 40% from three, taking a ton of threes. He's going to lead the league in threes this year, which is unbelievable. Curry leading the league in threes was always the safest bet in the world. He's going to end up with over 300 threes and over 500 free throw attempts. They're plus 4.2 net when he plays. He plays, which I think is really important. Doesn't miss games ever.

And he is a excellent defensive player. And Minnesota is playing better. Minnesota, I think has a chance to be in the 49 to 50 win range coming off a summer where they made, you know, a really, really impactful, huge trade, you know, that they, that took a while for them to figure out what their team was then Randall got hurt, DeFincenzo missed some time. Conley looked like he was dead the first six weeks of the season. And they've rounded into a team that I think at least is in the conversation

for, Hey, if somebody could have a puncher's chance of being okay. See who is it? So I think if that last 12 games, I guess the point would be. Mitchell doesn't have this lockdown anymore. And there's a world where Edwards could steal this from him. Mitchell doesn't have this lockdown anymore and there's a world where Edwards could steal this from him. Sometimes with these two, it's just you're so determined to early go with it

that you have to be like talked out to an irrational sense of getting you to change your mind. When if you just break down the counting stats, it's very close. If you go to the metrics, they're pretty close. I mean, there's a couple of things that favor Mitchell. Um, that rating is the big one.

Yeah. I think the one that would really still keep it with Mitchell is that, especially for the voters is that it's the best team in the East and he's considered by most of the models, the most impactful single player on the expected points added stuff. So he's the most important guy on that team. Whereas Edwards is the most important guy on that team. Whereas Edwards is the most important guy on his team. But look, I'm again reminding everybody off of last week in the MVP conversation when I you guys knew that I'm not.

You did you guys mean. Yeah, I used, I did it. I did and I'm not ashamed of him. I'm glad we kept it in and didn't edit it out. But. That wasn't bad. Here's the thing. The thing with Mitchell.

I'm surprised that you're bringing it up considering I think it's going to factor in your SGA Yoke and stuff. No, I would still have Mitchell first team. I was just surprised that we're not done yet. And I've said this in years past. I think the counting stats get tough sometimes when somebody is sacrificing to be in an awesome team. Mitchell could clearly score 28 a game if he wanted to. Yeah.

And he, the stats are what they are because this is the best way for his team to win. He's also playing less minutes. I still feel like in the right game and the right situation, he's toe to toe against anybody else you could throw out there. He's the least afraid guy. He's the guy they need the most. And that's why he still has the spot. But I do think Edwards is as is at least in the ballpark now, potentially stealing it.

The thing I kept coming back to is if you just switch these guys this season, is Cleveland better or worse? And I actually don't think they'd be better with a young Edwards still feeling himself out, trying to decide how good he is as a player. Um, if you just threw him into what they have, I think he's still figuring out his individual stuff a little bit. And I think that would have probably hurt them a tiny bit. Whereas Mitchell knows who he is. He's been in the league long enough.

He knows what his ceiling is as a player and he's able to sacrifice a little because he knows it's the best for the team. I'm not sure that's Edwards yet, but you could make a case if you flip them the other way. Maybe Minnesota is not as good with Mitchell because you know, they lose the two way stuff with the ant and they lose some of the swagger and some of the other stuff he brings to the table. So it's a fun combo at least. We did a version of this with Sarudy on my pod this week

when just like, who would you rather have? And it wasn't long-term. It was just kind of like right now to close out the season, which is, you know, it's not the most original gimmick, but it's kind of interesting. But he went with, he'd rather have Mitchell now and through the rest of the season. I would, I would rather have Ant.

I would rather have him because of the defense, but I think there's also a part of this where you could criticize Ant a little for like, does he bring it defensively every single night? His top version of his defense is better than the top version of Mitchell's defense. And that could be as simple as just being a size. I mean, is this athletic as Mitchell is? I mean, it sounds crazy to suggest you prefer somebody else's athleticism over Donovan Mitchell, but ants that guy. I would put ant for, if he really cares for three minutes, he's way, way, way, way up there with like the best guys in the league when he really cared.

If it's like, ant, we need you to shut this guy down, I would trust him. We've seen it. We've seen it. Right. And he loves it too. He really gets a rush out of doing it. So that's the thing.

It's just he has such a responsibility on the other end. I think he's gotta pick his spots. Yeah, I know what you're saying about Aunt and the maturing part of this. Has Mitchell gone through enough playoff seasoning that this is a better version of him of dialing him down a little bit, but I'd say even with the way Ant handled the cat stuff, handles the Rudy stuff that he actually shows kind of a teammate maturity and as far as shot selection and some of that stuff, I

think they've been so bad at times this year on offense. And you're right, they're rounding in a form. And I know like, look, they lost to Zion because Zion went crazy. They lost to the Pacers in that weird game because Obie Toppin couldn't miss from three, hits that ridiculous three in the corner. Cause I was watching that game going.

That was like a mid 80s bird three when he would like fall into the stance. That was one of the worst threes I've seen anyone take this year and he fucking drained it. That game was awesome. Yeah, that was a really fun game. So you're like, how do they lose to these guys?

It's like, well, you know, lucky enough, like having Zion, like Zion's now appointment TV again, because it's so much fun. So I was like, all right, I really want to kind of see this game. So I was in whatever my mode of watching and picking who I wanted to watch. I watched those two games after Minnesota looked like they'd

figured some stuff out here. Yeah. And so I don't like it's kind of, I want to get to the Cleveland losses in a second here too, cause you could kind of go like, what the hell is going on with these teams? And in Minnesota, like at least that one's kind of explainable for those two losses and I think some of the ant stuff at least, because the three point shooting has been incredible, it's 40% of the season all season long, but you can tell how

incredibly frustrated he has been at times facing all the double teams, trying to figure out like, who are the guys that I want to throw it to? Like I know Randall's going to score. Nobody want to pass it to Rudy. Conley doesn't really shoot. DeVincenzo was a mess. Um, Nas kind of hit or miss. I really like what Jaden has been for a long stretch here.

I think he's just been a more assertive. Most aggressive. Yeah. Super aggressive. Feel like way more comfortable him having the ball now, probably at any point in his career. So even if there's some metrics that say like defensively, cause I was looking at it this morning, like Mitchell and Ant are both kind of negatives

on the box score defensively. That's, I don't know, some of the defensive stats I kind of give up. But if something, if there's a player who I don't like on defense, and I see for seven straight years of his career he's a net negative on defense, and the team isn't always a disaster,

that's usually pretty telling there. But I don't know where Ant was ever gonna find his rest when he was sitting there trying to carry this team through all those dark days. So him not being locked in defensively, like it actually makes a little bit more sense for him, but I would still have Mitchell first team. I think is how I would do this. Just three weeks left. It's, it's not open and shut yet.

You mentioned one thing with the ant that I think is a really good point. When he would get frustrated with how teams were defending him, which I always thought was amusing where he's like, come on guys, just let's, let's play this. Let's just play this like men, you know, it's kind of his attitude and you can see him get visibly pissed. So all the smart teams are like, we do this. He's going to fucking melt down. He hates when teams do this.

He's not at that point in his career yet where he's like, Oh, they're going to do this, then we we do this. He's going to fucking melt down. He hates when teams do this. He's not at that point in his career yet where he's like, oh, they're going to do this, then we'll do this. He's still taking it like personally. That team's playing this way that that's like, why can't, why can't it's almost like a UFC fighter. Like, why can't we just stand in the middle of the ring and just throw punches? Why are you doing, why are you doing this fucking ground game shit? Let's go.

Let's go in the middle of the ring. Um, so by the way, Mitchell knows who he is. Yeah, but Mitchell also was passing to Garland or Shooting Options or Mowgli or Allen, who are all nice. Like he has bigs he can pass the ball to. Yeah. And Randall, depending on the night, you know, is, I'm trying to be nice here.

You know, he's an option and his passing is really good, but there's also times too with Rando when it's bad, you just know what's going to happen. Like the possession is going to stop. Everybody's going to watch. You're going to see what happens. And, um, you know, it's, that's not always a blast. So Mitchell, I would imagine would be just as frustrated

as aunt was, but the Cleveland stretch for this thing, I know that you're not doing it because they've lost three in a row. Orlando coming back and winning that game. Four in a row. What'd I just say, three? Yeah, you're right. Yeah, four in a row.

Orlando, Clippers, Phoenix, Sacramento. Well, we came on after that Orlando game. We were upset. Sacramento, or Sacramento Phoenix. Yeah, we were upset that the streak was over because we had a whole bunch of Cleveland stuff we were gonna do, and then Orlando played played really well and Cleveland just missed shots. They, they, and it was like, oh man, you have those games in the NBA where

it's shots don't go in. Then they go to the Clippers and the Clippers just played awesome. Like if you, if you're ever going to talk yourself into the Clippers or a true contender for 25, that's the game to go and watch the tape of everybody looks good. Kawhi looks great. They were incredible in that game. Kawhi is the best guy in the floor. Like it was like Jesus and Mowgli played really well in that game.

And it didn't really matter. It's like, all right, well, that's the best the Clips can do. Took them by surprise. Then they go to Sacramento and they lose that one too. And then the one, the next one was the sons and the sons are like, look, we, we keep waiting for you guys to bring Dr. Kovorkian in and put us down and nobody's put us down. So who knows?

And then KD plays awesome in that game. So there are four losses that, um, I guess if you took them one at a time, that kind of made sense, but the points they gave up, they gave up one 32, the Coopers, one 23 to the Kings and one 23 to the sons. And that is not good. Rossello Nope. And the sons who we started last Sunday with, uh, after that Lakers loss, they smoked the Raptors, they beat your bulls.

And of all the calves losses, that was the most alarming one. The Orlando one, again, still shocked that they came back in the fourth quarter when you're looking at Orlando's offense. The Clippers game, the Clippers played so well that you just go, okay, you know. Throw it out. Sacramento's weird, like whatever.

Yeah, I don't know. Sacramento wasn't great. Like I know they didn't have Darius Garland in that game and they didn't have Moarius Garland in that game and they didn't have Mobley for the Orlando game, but Sacramento's down. So bonus, they're down Levine, which is kind of a hit or miss anyway.

It's like, would you rather play them with Levine? So DeRozan was terrific at the end of that one. I thought the last Phoenix game was the one with Cleveland. We were like, what are you guys doing? Like you've just lost three in a row. And the effort, especially in that third quarter, the rebounding stuff, like if you go through it, like none of these stats meaning anything because it's only four games, but the Cavs of all teams in this

four game stretch, they're 27th on defense, not who they are, 13th on offense, whatever. They're 29th out of 30 teams in rebounding this week, the Cavs. And granted, Zou had 20 and Mowgli had three. Zoo demolished them. Just killed them. Like that. And that's a guy that you would think the calves would be pretty well equipped to face. By the way, we should mention we're recording all of this before they play Utah today and they might be able to get back on the horse.

I was alarmed by a different thing of that son's game that if you're just projecting, what does this streak mean? And then what does it mean going forward when they play Boston, whenever they play Boston, they couldn't stop the rent. They, they couldn't stop them. And if, as a Celtics fan, when I look at the calves and, and think of like how the matchups could favor the calves, how the matchups could favor Boston, ultimately it comes down to Tatum.

Can they slow down Tatum? Can they stop him? A big six nine point forward who has the ball and that's why they traded for Deandre Hunter. That's why they have to play a coro even though they probably don't love playing the minutes they have. But that's why Struce becomes an issue

when it's a bigger team with wings like what Boston has. I watched that game, I'm like, Durant, I thought that was the best game I've seen him play all year and he was really, really engaged. I think he took 29 shots. He was like 17 for 29. But if you're Boston, you watch that game and you're like, this is, this is the Tatum window in a series with these guys.

Can they stop them? I don't know if they can. That was one of those games where I wasn't watching it live and I knew I wanted to go back to, especially once they had lost. So I was like, I want to watch this one tonight. And then it was like, Duran had 19 in the third quarter, like what happened. So then it's like, okay, we'll make sure we get all this. And that was the smoothest, like you're counting it up.

And then at one point, I think it's 11 or 12 and like, how is he going to get to 19? It's like, Oh, he's just going to make everything else to close out this third quarter. I did hear some of the defensive player stuff about Mobley in that one. And you can get into the switching against DeRozan where he got him twice. And look, he got him once and then Mobley played the other one. And like sometimes DeRozan is just going to make better shots than any kind of defense you can stretch in him. I am, I guess you, Donnis was knocking him a little bit on the defensive player of the year thing, which just makes me think that you, Donnis is up there

making sure people talk about BAM. Um, but. Mobly Durant did not get 19 on Mobly in that third quarter, which I think is important. No. Well, the other thing is you, you can kind of find your matchup, the matchup that you want against them and you can do that against any team in the league and they do, you know, if they have those two guards out there, you're going to try to

hunt one of them, certain teams like hunting Allen and bringing them out. Um, and I think one of the issues I have with the calves and I don't even know if it's an issue cause it'll probably solve itself, but I still, I'm still not positive what their best five is, especially against different matchups and it might not matter, but I think they need Hunter to be that fifth guy and he just hasn't been in a lot of big games, you know, and we talked about this last week, he had that huge shot in the corner hits Orlando and he decided to backward with it.

You know, if you're guarding Kevin Durant or Jason Tatum and Hunter has to be the guy, he doesn't have a shitload of reps. I really liked that trade for them, but, um, I guess the good thing for them is the schedule is about to get easier. Utah, well at Portland is not easy anymore. San Antonio home at Detroit. And then they're mostly home the rest of the way. Um, but look, they were 56 and 11 or 56 and 10 when this thing started or 56 and 14.

They were two giant windstreaks, right? They were 18 and three against the West until this weird stretch. They go out West. It's almost April. Um, even without a deep playoff run with this group, this is not who, who they are, you know, I don't know that you can point to this week if they lose to boss and be like, Oh, see, we knew. And look, I'll even admit.

I think that's fair. Yeah, I think against DeRozan and some of the minutes against Durant, because I've talked about the Hunter trade too much, but I'll just say it one more time, at least there's an option for a big guy against the Jaylen, Brown, Tatum, even Derek White, you know, Drew Holliday thing,

because that was four guys that you always felt like, hey, they're gonna find somebody against Garland here. Like, no matter what you do, there's going to be a way to attack Garland. And if you're helping over that, now you're leaving Derek White, or you're leaving Drew in the corner, or now, you know, obviously Tatum kind of attacks Allen

a lot in that last regular season game that they played against each other. So Hunter at least provided some kind of option. So I think he has to be the fifth in that playoff series against Boston. And that's really the only one that matters. I think there's other games where maybe they'll want the spacing of Struce against a different team.

Struce would be the other guy. May not matter. I don't know how Ty Jerome fits in closing minutes of a playoff game next to Mitchell and Garland or he out there, it seems a bit redundant. So you may not need it, but I could see Strews closing or even Dean Wade, who's so good defensively, man, like constantly watching him get hunted because he's a white guy.

It's like the Hauser thing. It's he's got a Hauseritis. Except he's even taller than Hauser is. Yeah. And you know, he's another guy that provides you some kind of spacing. So if it's a bigger unit, so like, look, we've been over all these different rotation combos. I've talked about it too many times, but I'll admit on this

West coast swing, as I'm excited about the Hunter option for the Cavs, I also see him getting a little too upright. I also look at him like defensively going, am I giving him the benefit of the doubt of some defensive option against Boston? Just cause he's tall. Just cause he's exactly. Just cause he's tall. What's the reality like you can attack him too.

So this mattered. These, these four really good teams, I don't think lose four games in a row and they have real stakes. And you can say- Oh, I don't think it matters at all. I don't think it matters at all. I think it matters.

Can I make the case? Well, yeah, of course. No, you can't. Well, here's the case. Cause you'd be like, oh, they have the one seed sewn up. No. They had a two game lead on OKC for home court in the finals and home court in the finals matters more than it ever has now because we went back to the

two, two, one, one, one. So they had this in their grasp and I asked, I think one of the reasons I liked them is they've been so consistent and so good. And after a while you go, look, man, the numbers are the numbers. This is the best three point shooting team in the league. They're awesome defensively. They're able to hold their own against all these good players. And then they just get smoked in those last three, especially Orlando throw away.

That's a weird game. You know, you're on Sunday, it's early. You think you're going to extend the streak right before you go on the road. But the other ones, they had real trouble against Kaauai and DeRozan and Durant. And back to back to back, that's a real thing that I think is going to ultimately, if you're the Celtics and even if you're the Knicks, you're looking at that and you're like, Hey, this is good for us. The Knicks?

Come on. If the Knicks beat the Celtics, I'm sad. I didn't want to leave them out. Yeah. But I mean, the standard that you're holding Cleveland to and saying this could be something that's alarming, then you're ignoring all the Knicks stuff. Unless, you know, look, not having Brunson clearly. Do I think the Knicks are going to be in round three? No, I don't.

I think Boston's going to beat them. I just didn't want to leave them out because we have New York listeners trying to cater them. The Phoenix game was alarming. The Sacramento one, you're supposed to win that one after the two losses already, but it was actually a close game. Like it came down to the final few seconds in that one. So it was an old school DeRosa. I think they've been too good. They put together that absurd streak.

We know who the players are. It feels like this is their time. Not saying in their time because some of the playoff seasoning shit annoys me. We're OKC. It's like, well, they haven't done it yet. Okay. Well, maybe for OKC, their seasoning was just that Dallas series last year. Yeah, I think that matters in that combo.

They have done it yet because that was a really competitive, awesome series. So you can't say they've never been in a situation like that. You know, you at least have to point to that. Yeah, because I feel like we've always heard it over and over again. It's like, oh, the Pistons had to lose to the Celtics and the Bulls had to lose to the Pistons. And then it's just like, on and on and on, as if it never, like Golden State was rather new.

Maybe their San Antonio series in 14 was enough seasoning for them to get through everything in 15 and the Cavs injuries. But, you know, did Toronto have seasoning or was it just a really good year and then they had their injury? You know who doesn't need seasoning? Shay.

I think we're good. I don't think there's a playoff scenario where he can't get every fucking shot he wants in a series. And Chet is the one you would worry about in a series like this, but Chet got his ass kicked in that Dallas series. And if that didn't make him, he came back bigger, stronger. Hartenstein had a bunch of playoff stuff. Really the only one that worries me for real is Jalen Williams just because he's gonna have the ball

a lot and what did he learn from that Dallas series? Because it's gonna happen again. They're gonna just send the two guys at Shade, they're gonna make Jalen Williams have the ball all the time or Isaiah Joe or wherever it is. How are those guys going to function when they're just like, Hey, look, Shea's not beating us in this game. We'll play four on three against you guys.

Go ahead, knock yourselves out and who's going to step up. And that's it. I would expect to like, even when you watch, okay, see if teams try to trap SGA and sometimes they'll save it, right? Yeah. Whoever they play, especially early on, they'll probably just sell out and be like, let's kind of do this. I trust that there's enough playmakers, shot makers and options off of that trap.

That even if you're slowing SGA down, you're selling out and sacrificing something else that usually NBA games, if you do it too long, like you can't ever go into a game and be like, this is what we're going to do because then it's like, all right, seriously, if you do it too long, like you can't ever go into a game. You're like, this is what we're going to do. Cause then it's like, all right, seriously. No, but you can mix it up. The problem is Hartenstein is so good at the foul line in that four on three situation. It is like the all time net signing was incredible.

We got to take a break and then we're doing sliding doors. All right. Gimmick, we almost did last week and then we got so caught up with other stuff we forgot to do. We're calling it 2020's sliding doors. The biggest what ifs of the half decade, because it is the half decade now. We had a five years ago was COVID. Um, it's been, it's been a good half decade, but Rocky star, but.

Rocky start doing better. Um, and I asked you to write down the biggest what ifs for you from this decade. I wrote down my own list. I'm sure we have a lot of the same stuff. We are not doing this draft style. We're just doing like, we can just go back and forth the biggest things we've seen. What's, what's the biggest sliding door? What if for you in this first five years of this decade? I have like 12 of them. You think we'll have time? I'm just kidding. I have a bunch too. I'm ready. I'm ready for however you want to do this

No, I have three because I spent too much time on one, but I knew you'd probably have five. All right, so Houston takes Mobley number two instead of Jaylen Green in the 21 draft. Oh Wow, that's a great one. Yeah, was that in the mix? Why not I mean I'm just saying no but when that happened, I'm trying to remember when during that draft, were we wondering if, yeah, you're right. We were wondering if they would go two or three of that. Oh shit. I just blew your mind.

Yeah. I think this is going to be your favorite one. I mean, I know you have ones that you've done. You probably like, so let's do it. So I ran through a couple of scenarios. There's plenty of, you know, as, as the ripples go through the lake off the pebbles velocity here. Uh, so that would mean no Jalen Green.

So, you know, we wouldn't be kind of stuck in this, what is Jalen Green riddle that's gone on for a really long time. And I think the nice way of talking about it is that I think he's still really important to their offense because he can, what he can get on his own. Like today's NBA, him being able to get what he can on his own. I still feel like I fell in love with him on those non-Shangoon games at the end of the season last year. It was almost like exactly a year ago.

I was like, this dude is figuring stuff out and it is a little weird and maybe worrisome about the Shangoon part of it. Remember Houston, so they take Mobley too. So now there's not the green part of it. They took Shungun 16 that year. So if they take Mobley too, they probably don't take Shungun. So he's not on the team. I don't like doing just whoever is good after the pick that you selected.

Shungun means you would have gotten this guy, but look, there's a Trey Murphy conversation who goes 17. On that pick though, they traded for the pick because that was an OKC pick, right? And OKC got out of 16 traded it to Houston and got these two like super conditional first round picks that I don't even think have really turned in anything. So they definitely traded up for Shungun. The question is, do you do that if you also have Mobley? I don't think so. Even if we talk about bad teams

and not wanting to draft based on need, I have a hard time believing that a team would take Mobley then take Shungun going, we're just gonna roll into it. Although who knows? Like maybe Mobley would be the best thing to play next to Shungun. That would have been an amazing combo. All right, so you're saying if they draft Mobley,

no Jalen Green and no Shungun already. Right. Because he was, it was a 22 first in a 23 first. Yeah. I did all the legwork on this and those firsts were kind of the, those conditional rollover rollover rollover. And I don't think it's one of the weird, weird, weird Presti moves where it's like, why don't you just take Shungun?

I got to, I got to tell you, I feel like I need to spend a weekend in a cabin somewhere and go back through all of the crazy, like here's four or five first rounders and just do a final tally. Maybe we need to do that on a slower day. It's like in August. I'll admit there's just some, I go, you've completely lost like Marsha on Boat Champ. Like what happened there? And I'll like, there's just some I go, you've completely lost like Marsha and Bo-chan, like what, what happened there? And I'll, like I'm sorry,

like I know I'm supposed to know all of this stuff, but there's times where I- Well, basketball reference will have that, it has that trade pocket at the bottom of the guy's pages and you read the trades and you're like, wait. Dude, it's my homepage. I'm on it all the time. But then they'll, there's just some of these deals

that like once all the picks are done through, I think we might even be a couple years away from it all, but going through like what the cost, like two trades that felt like the exact same cost and the price that was paid are two entirely different worlds based on how the picks conveyed, didn't convey. Anyway, so staying with this theme here. So who knows what happens with Usman Garuba and Josh Christopher, because those are later first rounders as well. But I think the other side of this is, okay, so Jaylen Green, not part of the

equation, no Shengoon, maybe they take them, maybe they put them next to Mobley and it's terrific, who knows. But then on the Cleveland side of it, does Cleveland sit there with Jaylen Green going, we can't trade for Donovan Mitchell in 22? Uh, the answer is definitely yes, because part of the reason I did that Mitchell trade was they were like, we feel like we've hit a home run with Evan Mobley. Now we're going to get it. We've sped up our timeline now.

Let's fucking go for this because we think mobile is that good. You're not doing that if you have Jaylen green. I don't think for what they gave up with marketing and five firsts and all the other shit and the Kessler and that trade was expansive. They did it because they love mobility. I don't think it was that many firsts. It was three firsts and two swaps, right? Okay. Okay.

Yeah. Right. Right. Um, yeah, I don't think they do it. So now, now we've altered the destinies of Cleveland, Houston and Utah. Yeah, that's the thing, right? So there's two swaps in there.

That's pretty good. Yeah, because I don't think teams would take a Jalen Green and then go, let's do the Mitchell trade now to either. And they would have Darius Garland on the team already too. All right. That's a really good one. Great start. Here's my number one.

It's an injury one, which I don't usually love for what ifs, but Murray tearing his ACL when he did. Like to me, the ultimate what if sliding door thing is did title shift, right? This is one where he tears his ACL and it's right after the, uh, the COVID when they started it. It's after the bubble, they start the season late. So he tears his ACL. When Murray was potentially the most annoying human being in the world during the bubble on the sideline, right?

Well, that was a weird, that was a weird couple of weeks. I liked that he's, he's no longer doing that. Murray tears his ACL on April 12th, 2021, like a little bit before the playoffs. So he misses the 21 and the 22 playoffs. The sons ends up making it in 2021 with the team that looking back is like, wow, that not only was that team pretty awesome, but that, that team came really close to winning the finals.

But now I look at that team and it's like, what would this team be at like a five seat in the West and then golden state makes it in 2022 because Murray doesn't come back in time. And that's the one where if you're Denver, you're, I mean, they had Denver ends up winning it in 23. I think Denver, if they have healthy Murray you're Denver, you're, I mean they had Denver ends up winning it in 23. I think Denver, if they have healthy Murray the whole time, I just would have them over that golden state team as great as Steph was because

you had clay at a weird point in his career. Draymond was at a weird point in his career. I just think, I just think Denver would have been better. Um, but you think they would have won back to backs? No, I think they would have won 22. and then I don't know what happens in 23, but I think they weird way of having the Celtics win it in 23. I don't know what happened. No, cause they, Miami beat them in 23.

They didn't even get to the finals. Um, I don't know how it goes no matter how you want to do it, but, um, I just think they would have won the title sooner than that and it's the only injury we'll talk about. I know the net sliding doors will probably come up during this, but this is the only one where I'm really confident that the 21 or 22 finals would have played out differently in some way. So I think this was the biggest injury. The honest sprained ankle in 2020, I think was a really underrated sprain, uh,

injury when he got hurt in game four against Miami and then Miami ends up a sprained ankle in 2020, I think was a really underrated sprain, uh, injury when he got hurt in game four against Miami. And then Miami ends up going all the way through through the bubble. I think you could argue that could have been Milwaukee that year. And then Kyrie and Hardin going down in 21. I think, I think those are the three biggest injuries where you could say the title probably swung because this happened or, or almost probably swung. So I would have that.

That's a good one. Cause that Warriors team in 23, it was 22, excuse me. That was, that was like this story, but as it was happening, it's still kind of like, I can't believe this team's going to win the whole thing. Whole time. Even during that Memphis series, it was like, and then, and then the Celtics, when they lost the first game. They were up three one. No, but it's just, I don't know.

It was like, wow, this, this is what we're, one of these teams is probably making the finals. It was a weird time for the season. How about this? Does Memphis have playoff seasoning? Does Memphis have? It was a weird time for the season. How about this? Does Memphis have playoff seasoning? Because of that? No, like when you think about Memphis and who they've been, where they've been in the seating,

where they've been in some regular season moments, and it feels like they're on the cusp of like, are we getting a Western Conference finals appearance out of this team? I think there's even been moments this year when you look at the standings, you're like, you know, if J, like, do you love their closing five? Like what's going to happen?

By the way, nobody, I think people obviously with Denver, which I think Denver has actually become a little overrated in this OKC conversation. More than a little. Right. And I even guilty of it, probably going back less than two months ago, I was like, Hey, we still got to include Denver in that one team. And then the more I just kept watching, I go, you know what? It needs to be the three teams.

And then it's Denver, maybe in their own group, that Lakers push, maybe put Lakers with the nuggets. Houston. I think we all look at the offense going, what is that going to look like in crunch times of playoff games? But now with the Clippers resurgence with the Timberwolves prior to those two losses, like there's a lot of stuff in there where you get through a ton of teams before you ever get to Memphis.

And you could argue that they've had playoffs season thing, but you could also argue that they haven't really had any, whether it be injuries or getting blasted out so soon with this group also because of injuries. I think if we were doing which best player in the playoffs, do you trust the least job would be the number one pick in that trap from I just don't, what am I getting from him? How many games is he going to play? Is he going to play seven games in a row? I just don't, I don't trust that cause I haven't seen it. And I also don't think like, I think in a playoff series,

you would trust Harden more than Ja in the playoffs. At least I know Harden would play. Yeah, but I mean, is not knowing what you're getting an improvement over what Harden has been for his playoff career. James Harden is a new man in year 19, year 17. Now you're right.

He's honestly due. Because even as I've talked up the Clippers a little bit, I purposely left out that part of it because I didn't want to be negative again. I do it far too often. I can't help myself. He is one of my sliding doors though, so I guess I'm not gonna be able to help myself one more episode here.

But honestly, if everybody were healthy with the Clippers and flying around, it's like, you know, it's kind of the thing I used to do to Van Pelt. He would go, we don't do this enough. We don't do this. I'd be like, oh really? Pick them, then pick them.

Pick them to win the series. Pick them to win the West. And he was like, I bullied him into it one time, he picked the team and then they lost. And he's like, you asshole. And I was like, well, this concept of, and look, anybody that talks for a living, there's a lot of transition into,

hey, no one's really talking about this team, but watching the Clippers be this awesome version of themselves again, and that Cavs game, and going through all the numbers and how everybody's making shots and Kawhi looking like Kawhi and Kawhi getting after Mitchell defensively in a couple of huge possessions, I was like, holy shit. And then I'm saying to myself, like,

so you're going to pick him? You're going to pick Harden to get to the Western Conference finals? Or are you going to pick Kawhi to play for six straight weeks? Yeah. That's another one. So I think Jazz in that thing too. That's a good draft. You should do that with somebody.

Like use that next week. All right. Um, talk about a few games. I'm going to do a second sliding doors and then I'll throw it back to you because it's tied into the injury thing with, uh, but to finish the Denver thing, you think Murray healthy, they get the one in 22. I think they went in 22. Yeah.

Cause Yoko was that good by then and I, their supporting cast was good. I think they would have been the best team, um, which ties into the other one. It's kind of a one a one B the, uh, the, what if the 2021 nets don't break down is a great one because that they had that Celtic series where they looked like they might have a chance to be the greatest offensive team of all time and they're actually playing well together. They had that Celtic series where they looked like they might have a chance to be the greatest offensive team of all time. And they're actually playing well together. And then I think Kyrie got hers Kyrie sprained his ankle, hardened

and hurt his hamstring, tried to keep playing. Um, there's so many, and then they ended up losing cause KD steps on the line. But you know, Milwaukee barely beats them getting incredible injury luck and they still barely win. It takes them overtime gave seven to beat them. So then you got all the, if those guys don't get hurt, does Yannis ever make a finals? Do the nets actually win the title? How do we talk about Kevin Durant now?

Are those guys all still together? Do we talk about Hardin? We, like you just mentioned Hardin five minutes ago. Well, what if they won the finals that year? How Do we talk about Hardin? Like you just mentioned Hardin five minutes ago. Well, what if they won the finals that year? How do we talk about him? How do we talk about Kyrie? Who gets traded? Does Kyrie even end up on Dallas?

Does Hardin end up on two more teams? Does KD end up on Phoenix? It's like, that is one of those, when you talk about sliding doors, there's an alternate universe, and Zach Low is just to call them the greatest hypothetical team. There's an alternate universe where we talk about sliding doors, there's an alternate universe. And Zach Lowe is just to call them the greatest hypothetical team. There's an alternate universe where we talk about that team like they're the 99 Rams.

We're like, Oh my God, remember that those guys, and then they scored 130 a game and went 14 and 16 and two in the playoffs. Jesus Christ. But didn't happen. There's, you could do an entire, like this happen. There's you could do an entire like this Celtic stock. You could do maybe a 20 parter on all the what ifs with the nets over this. Cause I went deep into the hardened contract stuff this morning and I did it last week and I was double checking with somebody on all the numbers of the extensions that he was turning down.

Yeah. I like staying, let's stay on, on this side of it. Which ring do you think is more important? Yannis getting that one or Jokic getting his in 23? I honestly Yannis, cause I don't think there's a path for him. Otherwise, I think that was their one best chance to win. And if he doesn't win there, he starts to move into that Barkley area. It becomes the dominant theme with him

for the last couple of years, even before the Dame trade. We're like, whoa, is he honest ever? Is he ever gonna make the finals? How good can he be? We're just doing that for three years. And not like he'd give a shit. He's not even from America. He doesn't understand how stupid half the shit is

that we obsess over. But I just think that I think he would have been the guy for this decade. I don't know, how good is he? Janos and Jokic both took that off the table. Luka at least made the finals last year, but Luka, you know, if it doesn't happen for the Lakers for a couple of years, we'll be dealing with him.

But this is what we do. It's a you guys. It's a you guys. I don't feel like we're in the you guys on this as much, but. No, it is though. I think it is, but I'm not, I'm not lumping you in with everybody else. Cause my first thought was it was Jokic because we were talking about Jokic with all these MVPs and back in the conversation and Janis, you know, unfortunately it feels like no matter what he does, he's just not as much of a conversation.

Um, I think one year I, I was looking back to like my MVP voting, cause I was looking at some other voters who I'm just, you want to talk agendas. Like this is such a joke. Um, and I, you know, I don't know if I'll have a vote again this year, but. I hope you have a vote. You put in the work, you watch the games, you should get a vote. Well, I appreciate you saying that, but I look at it as, as something when you get done with it, I don't, I don't know how you could ever be like, yeah, nailed it because whenever you try to slot in Janis.

Like I bet you, if you averaged out my MVP voting years, I would have Janis higher than whatever, you know, his average finish would be. And yet with Jokic, I think it's a different tier that he's chasing. Yeah. And I think he would get more shit without a ring than Janis would. I think for Janis, it would be. Because you think Jokic has the chance to be one of the 10 best players of all time, whereas Janis is in that 10 to 20 range probably. It's a pretty simple formula. If we have these conversations about you, the same thing with

the quarterbacks where it's like, okay, this guy is one of the four or five best quarterbacks with all these different things. When you lose in the playoffs, it's way worse than the 10th or 12th guy. And for Jokic, we're talking about like chasing top 10 in history. I don't think we're talking about that anymore with Janis. We probably were during that final stretch, right? I also think there'd be a part of this with Janis where it would become, can you win with this approach when it's like, well, dude, I'm so glad that he won because I see somebody that reads defenses really well. He stopped taking threes.

I think he's a more efficient person. Plays his fucking ass off. Right. He wants to kill everyone in the other uniform the entire time he's out there. And it's a bit like the Garnett thing because he keeps losing in the playoffs, you have to start questioning him.

And I think the only thing that was fair about Garnett. Two bad luck injuries with him too in the playoffs, like at the wrong times. If you were doing the full scope of it, it's like, look, as great as Garnett was, he probably couldn't have always been the number one scoring option to close out a tied playoff game because he was always probably a little bit more apprehensive offensively than I wished that he was.

Yeah. But to suggest that he was a loser because he was losing all the time was wrong. Oh, were people actually doing that? Cause I remember him just being this incredibly sympathetic figure, basically, you know, cause Glenn Taylor, he lost all those picks and the Joe Smith thing, Marlboro left. And then it was just like, his supporting cast was so bad. At least the stuff I was writing back then was like, we got to rescue this

guy from Minnesota almost became the narrative. Giannis I think has had more help than KG did. Uh, yeah. I mean, those, those teams, you just go through it and you see who's like, I always like looking up like who would took the third most shots for this team. You're like Trenton Hassel. Right. They got one really good Cassell here and it felt like a miracle.

It's like, Oh my God, their point guards averaging 17 and eight. But I want to finish the point though, only because it would, it would crush me as a basketball fan to watch the way Yannis plays and with all of the great things that we just talked about, right? All of those great things that it would then lead to. There's something wrong with him if he didn't have the ring. So I think you could make a really good argument for which guy would take more shit sans a ring here because.

more shit sans a ring here because. Yokech is like touching a totally different historic tier. I think Janis is when it's all said and done, like, what is this guy going to be? Because the standard for him would be higher because of the way we're talking about him. Again, it feels a little dismissive of Janis, but we're talking about like, Hey, top 10 of all

time in this sport versus Janis who probably lands in the top 20. You know, I don't know. I mean, you know this stuff better than I do. No, I can tell you, Giannis is, we're talking about the Hakeem, Shaq, Moses kind of area. Right, and where do you think Yokich is? Yokich is on like the bird and magic suite, like knocking on the door now.

Like, I am the natural legacy to you guys. They would get, it would be a good segment to do that too. Like we're just ranked, we're just producing shows here right now is who are the most like go last 20 years, the most important rings. Like how important is Steph's fourth ring? You know, I think I would have Steph's fourth ring over all of them. I think it vaulted them into a completely different area. No kidding. I think that's more important than Yokocho Yannis is first or only.

I do because those guys still have a chance to win another one. And Steph didn't and Steph, there always would have been a little asterisk next to him and all it did was put him right with Kobe and West and you know, right in that group and he's probably leading the way in that group. I mean, you can never say, Oh, you, the first one, LeBron got and you know right in that group and he's probably leading the way in that group. I mean you can never say oh you the first one LeBron got all his teammates got hurt in 15 and then the next two you had to rant that's why you won. There was always a yeah but with him and the yeah buts were gone. We talked about it when it happened. Giannis MVP voting since 19. One, one, four, three, three, four.

And he's gonna be three or four this year, probably four. Seven straight years in the top four. I voted him second last year. Yeah, you were, I enjoyed it. I did not, but I liked your reasoning. Yeah, and I know that I went back and looked at it a bunch of times. And I was like, you consistently have him higher than other people do. And look on some stuff, I'm impossibly stubborn. I will not change my mind.

I don't care what you have to say on this. I'm not stubborn. Like I might be wrong, but I just felt like, I don't, I don't know if the list is very long of dudes that are more impactful this season again than that guy. So, uh, you know like I don't, I don't know if the list is very long of dudes that are more impactful this season again than that guy. So, uh, you know, we, I think, uh, I still, if I had to do MVP right now, I would still put Tatum three and Giannis four, because I just think what Tatum has done this year has been incredible. Um, being point forward, guarding five positions, being the best rebounder in the team and having more team success. I don't,

I don't know what else you would want, you know, and Giannis is having the same 30, 12 and six that he has every year. And you know, it's some of the same stuff with him down the stretch of games, um, the way teams play him. I, I think he's, I don't want to say hard to play with, but you kind of have to tailor the team to what he can and can't do, you know? And he's, he's really a center. And if you just think of him as a perimeter center, it probably makes more sense. But I just think Tatum has been slightly better this year.

I still think it has to be one of the three most horrifying things in basketball. When Giannis has decided he's going to go to the. Well, that next thing with the playoffs, I was talking to a Knicks fan yesterday, who do you not want to see in the three spot? If it's between Detroit, Milwaukee, Indiana, who's the not, I don't want to see that team. And the case for Milwaukee is I just don't want to see Yannis for two weeks. How was that even a conversation?

Well, cause those are the three choices. Obviously Detroit, you'd want to see the most cause it's K-8 and a bunch of guys I've been there, but Indiana is a team that plays really well against them. That pressures that they have those guards that just pressure full time. They have a ton of confidence against them. They're deep and Milwaukee is kind of a messed up team. Like they're not that good. You know, they're, they're still would rather play, you know,

there's an argument to be made because the Pacers are like a mirror version of you as the Knicks. It's like, who knows what happens in that free for all. Like I wouldn't want to play the Pacers. Pacers are number one for me. I'd rather take my chances with this Bucks team and Kuzma and some of the bench dudes. And you know what, let's give Yanis is 30 and 12 every night.

We're still beating these guys. I don't know. I just feel crazy picking the pace. I'd rather play Yanis than the Pacers, but I understand the part of it. And especially knowing the Knicks and who they are and going, Hey, the Pacers is just going to run and not defend with us for seven games too. And then who knows what happens. Well, and they're also going to run and not defend with us for seven games too. And then who knows what happens. Well, and they're also going to, they're going to really pressure Brunson who's coming off

an injury. They're going to make him dribble for 90 feet every time. Neesmith is going to foul him 30 times a game. We're going to hack them. We're going to talk shit. I would not want to see them. Let's take a, let's take a break and then we'll finish sliding doors. All right. What do you have for your next sliding doors? I'll just keep it with this off of the nets thing, because I think it's a really good point, especially when those guys were playing

and you were sorting the stats going to people. Because I think a little bit gets overstated in each season. We're like, hey, do you realize that this team is now on pace to be the greatest offensive all time? Like Dallas had it a couple of years ago for this stretch. It's like, okay, but at no point do I look at this team. It's the rising tides thing as offenses get better and better every single year. But there was some net stuff that was happening with that group and they were

winning all of those games in the rare occasion that those dudes were playing. So I love that one. All right. So Harden, we know turned down an extension with Houston. That was like a hundred million on top of the hundred that he was owed. He turned that one down before the 21 season started. Remember there's that deadline before the season gets going where he can sign an extension. He was offered three years and 160 million.

That would have been on top of a player option of 47.4 million. He turned that one down because he was actually eligible for an extension for 225 million for four more years. the eligible for an extension for 225 million for four more years. So of all of these scenarios, he ended up demanding a trade after he had called Brooklyn home, right? Said we're all on the same page. But again, I, I'm sympathetic to Hardin a couple of different times in the Hardin timeline.

And in the case of him being frustrated with the nets and going like, what the hell's going on over here? You know, the Kyrie stuff, he didn't want to be there anymore. I don't like the way he handled it, but that's what he ends up doing. He moves on. All right. So instead of hitting free agency and signing any of these things that he's already been offered, he goes to Philly and does a two year deal for 68 million with the player option for the next year at 35.7. To allegedly give them a chance to get more guys because he took a lesser deal.

Well he does. They do get more guys. But the real thing was like, we'll take care of you in two years if you do this. But yeah, and that's why I've always kind of taken heart and sides that if he has already turned down a hundred million dollar extension from Houston that was going to make him the highest paid player in the NBA, there's $161 million extension. That's all the Nets could offer him before the season. But he was like, look, I'm going to turn it down. I'm going to go to free agency. I'm going to sign the extension with you here. And at one point, I think in the 26-27 season, he was going to be the first $60 million

player a year on the books. Yeah. So that's 26, 27. We're still two years away from that season that was supposed to be on the books with some of these extensions. So he's turning all that stuff down. Granted, he then gets frustrated with the Nets and wants out, but these are the numbers that he's expecting that he's in line for, and then he signs for two years in 68 and all of us are like, what the fuck? Right.

He has a player option for the second year. And remember the player option is like, wow, he's just going to opt out. And then he's going to go back and get his four years, $200 million. No, he's not. Cause now he's not getting the extension. Now he's pissed. He ops in to control the trade market with this. He ops in.

So that means he makes 68.6 million with the Sixers. He signs the two year, $70 million deal, his past free agency with the Clippers. So instead of those four years where he makes 138, um, he basically made about 70 million less over those four years. What if, what if the Sixers had just signed him? Can we go backwards? Because there's, you had so many what if the Sixers had just signed him? Can we go backwards? Because there's, you had so many what ifs in there. What if he just signs with Houston and stays there.

And then they kind of keep that going for another year before they realized they can't win a title instead of just blowing it up. I still don't love the trade they made, but it did blow them up. It allowed them to reset. It allowed them to be the mobile green draft. If I remember they got picks out of it. They got cap space, all that stuff. But then you go to the net.

Honestly, I think it ended up being a blessing for Houston because it allowed them to reset it sooner and now they're where they're at now. Houston's in better shape. Right. Houston, Houston's totally fine with every way this has gone. Works out for Houston. Goes to the nets, nets give up all that stuff for them. It's still haunting them to the point

that they then just did that thing where they traded the Phoenix stuff to get back their own pick. Which is his own conversation, which may have like, we'll see what happens there, because those Phoenix picks, like, who knows? Who knows? But the other piece of that was when they finally have to get off hard and they

trade for Ben Simmons, which turns out to be a catastrophe and they take Ben Simmons off Philly's hands. They, they, they give them James Harden for Ben Simmons and like two first round picks that mean nothing. And as much as you, you can, you can just like harden more than I dislike his playoff performances, but at that point, like Daryl, like where's the out? Where's the out? Like, how are you going to figure out? Like Daryl, there's so many times.

But he's the thing, we both like the trade. Yeah, I don't know. No, because at that point we're like, Hey, they can rejuvenate Ben Simmons. It turns out to be a dejuvenation. It just gets, it gets even worse. So then, and then with Philly, he screwed, he screws them up where they finally have to get rid of them. And then they have, you know, whatever happened to them last season.

But then he goes to the Clippers and he allows them to get off the Paul George thing, which then retroactively kills Philly. So he kills Philly and Brooklyn. He did Houston a favor. So let's be fair about that one. One out of three. Now he wanted out, but it ended up being the best thing that could have happened for them

because they get to reset the clock, they get the picks, and now, you know, you were doing a future roster draft, Houston's at least a top five pick, even with the question marks we have. And he helps the Clippers. But he helps the Clippers because they get out of Paul George, they get hardened on a much better deal. The Paul George stuff allows them to kind of reset all their apron shit.

Um, maybe Houston's a top seven future roster pick, as I'm kind of do it in my head real quick. Yeah, they're top five. But it's just the picks they have with the Phoenix picks. It's why when you're like, okay, I'm in line for like 225 million in the summer of 22. Again, the numbers are interesting. If Philly had just after he had done the first year at the discount and then they saw him play

and then imagine like ownership's going, what was, you know, they can argue it's been investigated. I'll still never believe that Harden just decided to do a two, a one plus one with a massive haircut knowing it had already turned down 161 million thinking he was in line for four years and 225 million. It's like, no, I'll do two for 68, but I'll opt

out next year. I just don't understand how a player or his reps would be like, we will do this and just see what happens. And then he doesn't play well, um, in that Celtic series. I know he was great in the beginning of the Celtic series, but it was just overall at that point, you're watching another year of Harden where you're going who would want to give him four years in the 200 million now?

And. It's the key point because he was so bad in six and seven, but there's another what if that's because he was awesome in earlier in the series Did you get to be totally that does right? Right? Go ahead. But the other what if to this is They don't treat hard and well in this whole extension thing and it becomes a he said she said thing Not great for Darrell not great for the Sixers So they zag the other way with them bead You know what?

We're going to double down on Joel Embiid and show how much we love this guy with this massive extension on top of the two years we already owe him because we got to show that we love our players. And that turns out to be a mistake. James Harden, a lot of sliding doors. And it could end up with the Clippers making the Western Finals. It could be a sliding door number seven. Right. Because you'd imagine if Harden stays, there's a couple other things here too. It doesn't mean anything for Embiid and his health, but they're better this year.

And that pick has definitely gone to OKC, but it's still not like an awful pick. And by the way, they have the sixth worst record. It's top six. If there's one upset, Philly's still losing that pick. And by the way, they have the six worst record. It's top six. If there's one upset, Philly still losing that pick. Okay. It's like, it's basically 50, 50 or 60, 40, depending on where they are. Even if they get to the five spot, it's still like 60, 40 that they keep it. So it's not even like, Oh, we got the five spot. We're keeping the pick.

Nope. They changed the odds. You're not keeping it. Definitely. Or because Harden isn't there to probably have them set up for a much better regular season because if he's playing he's putting up numbers. Then maybe they get the third pick. Right. So maybe the best part of this, maybe it's Paul George staying with the Clippers because they don't have the Harden option. Would the Clippers be better or worse? Depending on George's availability, I don't know that there's much of an argument making it. Anyway, that one's endless. It just is a cycle.

It's a fever dream. I could do a part two. Well, I have another one that's endless. Ready? What if Dallas just gives Jalen Brunson a four year 55 extension during the summer of 2021? Or even during the 21, 22 season? It leads to no Jalen Brunson in New York,

no Kyrie to Dallas, maybe Lucas stays because him and Jalen Brunson are so awesome together. Um, New York ends up trading everything for Donovan Mitchell who wanted to play in New York for a couple of years there before realizing those doors were closed. So now we don't have the Cleveland thing either because the Knicks have traded seven first round picks and God only knows what else to get Mitchell. Bridges doesn't go to the Knicks. Maybe he goes somewhere else, whatever. The 2025 Cavs don't happen.

It's got 19 different things, but then also leads to sliding door 2B. Does Dallas even trade Luka at that point? And then the second part of this is what if Dallas just leaks in mid January that they're thinking about trading Luca? How do the next two weeks play out? Shams reports. I'm hearing the Dallas approach Minnesota about Anthony Edwards to see if, but, and, and it's just, and then the Dallas fan base reacts and we're off and I don't think there's any way he gets

traded, but if he does get traded, it's for a way crazier price than what they got. So I think those two are tied together because neither of them are now in the Dallas Mavericks. Is there a discussion about who would you rather have if you were the Knicks, Mitchell or Brunson? a discussion about who would you rather have if you were the next Mitchell or Brunson? Well, the answer is Brunson because the price they gave up for Brunson

versus the price they would have had to give up for Mitchell is no contest. If you're saying just fundamentally who would you rather have? Yeah, let's not talk in the fact that Brunson gave him a massive discount, which again is another one of those. I'd personally, I'd like slightly lean toward, um, Brunson for me, but I also think Tibbs is running Brunson into the ground in a real way. And there's a chance maybe Mitchell would have been better off playing for Tibbs and Brunson. I think what they're doing in Brunson is nuts.

I've been pretty consistent with it. He finally got hurt. Was it, you know, he stepped on somebody's ankle. It wasn't Tibbs fault, but I just think running small guys into the ground like that, that there is no recipe in the history of the league that that's a good idea. It almost feels like Brunson, you know, it's like recasting a movie. It's like trying to sit, take like, Hey, could you have done Dumb and Dumber with Jeff Daniels and Paul Rudd? Well, no, I can't unsee Jim Perry being perfect.

Like there's, there's no way. So undoing what we've seen with Brunson and what he's meant to Knicks fans. Cause I imagine as I asked that question, the Knicks fans are listening to be like, are you out of your mind? Like Brunson's are, and I'm not telling you, you're wrong. I probably lean a little slight Mitchell, but I don't think many people would agree with me just because you've seen how special this Brunson Nick's thing has been, how many huge shots he's been involved in, you know, his network of

people that want to play for him. I was, I went to the Lakers game with the Knicks fan last night and we were both looking around at all the jerseys, right? And the Manicoby jerseys that are still at Lakers games. Now all the little kids have Luka jerseys and there's the LeBron jerseys and you'll see some Shacks and you'll see some old school Jerry West. Like it's all-

Like Inland California guys with Reeves jerseys on. There are a couple Reeves jerseys for Orange County. Um, but, uh, I asked my Knicks fans friends, I asked my Knicks fans friend, what are the jerseys like at Knicks games? And he's like Brunson. It's just people fucking love Brunson. Yeah. That's kind of the point is. Then he was like, there's a couple towns, but it's kind of the zag.

You know, it's like when, when the 2002, that when there was like a lot of pierced jerseys and then somebody would zag with the Antoine Jersey. Like, oh, I understand the Antoine Jersey. Cause he was there before and he was the higher pick and it was like, okay, this guy can do a little everything. Jordan's talking them up. Yeah. But yeah, he said there's a whiff of towns, but it's mostly Brunson.

I just think, New York just loves Brunson. So anyway, the Dallas thing, the Brunson piece of it, when it was so obvious, like that just wasn't a lot of money and they should have done it, and then they almost did it again during the season and both times backed off. I think you look at Cuban the last couple of years, and I'm not saying it undid the 2011 title

because that was amazing, but his decade. That's a little too harsh. His decade is fucking brutal. Like, not doing the Brunson thing, selling the team to these schmucks that trade Luca within a year, and then not getting nearly enough for the team, not to mention all the behind the shit stuff,

behind the scenes shit that was going out with that organization, rough decade for our guy cubes just, and now he's trying to distance himself desperately from the Luca trade and he'll do any interview and talk about how he can't believe and oh my God, I had no idea. It's like, you did sell the team to these dudes. This is your fault. Just like it was Howard Schultz's fault when he sold the Sonics to these f*****g dudes from Oklahoma city who were clearly going to move them.

Cubans sold the Mavericks to these guys and they absolutely don't know what they're doing and they traded Luka Donchich, which is the most insane thing that's happened in the NBA this century. Other than maybe the Artes Mele. Hey, just full transparency. Have you tried to get him on? No, I had him on a couple years ago. You haven't requested him on recently?

No. Last year? Why? Well, I thought maybe with the self-explanatory finals. Should we have him on together? I honestly, I don't want to, I'm not that interested in somebody giving interviews about how they wouldn't have traded Luka Dacic if they still on the team. It's like, well, you sold the team. I want to stay on this. Why'd you sell the team? I know we're doing sliding doors, but we need to stay on this because

there's a bunch of things that you said that I totally agree with. But I've also noticed the podcast that he's going on. Is he going on with podcasts knowing that sports guys that know the story a little bit better. Wouldn't hammer him on it. Right, right. Right. Because it's like, hey, when you sold the team, again, if the Mavs go for four billion in Dallas.

Wasn't four billion, it was three and a half. It was like, it might even have been less. But if the Celtics go for 6.1, the Mavs should have gone for higher. Yes, they own their arena. They own their arena. It's a top eight or nine market in the league. And they had Luka Doncic, who's worth a billion dollars

by himself for value, no question. Right. And then, which so many NBA teams, and I just heard McMahon on with Winhorse and Bontemps on this, and he was talking about just the wording of the transition of the front office, of like, okay, this group is buying it, but I am going to run this team.

And there's all these very specific quotes about how Cuban's going to keep running it. I don't know. Was that to a fan base? Nobody believed it. There were other teams to the point. Nobody who actually was in basketball circles believed that that's how it was going to be played out. And by the way, we're going through the same thing now with,

with Wick and the new owner. Unless that's in writing, that he is going to be the governor for the next three years and that's part of the sale, I don't know if he's going to last two years, one year. We have no idea. But see, that's, I want to stay on that because this is exactly where I wanted to go because McMahon was using like quotes

and they were all like, they all sound ridiculous listening a year later of Cuban go, okay, this is how it's going to be handled. McMahon was using like quotes and they were all like, they all sound ridiculous. Listen, a year later of Cuban go, okay, this is how it's going to be handled. And then, you know, I'm going to run all these different things. And as I made fun of it in the moment on this podcast, and there were so many people around the NBA being like, why does he keep saying this? Like this is definitely not going to happen. And it's exactly how it played out.

So when the Celtics sale was announced, which I want to ask you more about, the first thing I thought about in that press release was, I wonder what isn't true in this. Now maybe they're telling the truth. Maybe, and I still think despite some of the blips that you're hammering Cuban here for, I think it's a much better track record than a lot of the other options that you've had. You look at long-term ownership, there's no way you're giving Cuban a failing grade at owning the mask. No, he's unbelievable. I think he's one of the most important NBA owners of the 21st century.

He's in the top three and he had a great, great first two decades. I'm just saying the, the stretch here, starting with Brunson to the end. It's really bad for him. It gets mentioned in the first paragraph of everything about this. And Jaylen Brunson signing with the Knicks is not in the first paragraph or whatever. Q. No, I'm saying what happened to the Mavs over the course to where they are now,

where their fan base is in a full revolt with the team. I don't know. He's got to get some blame for that. He does. And don't sell the team to these people who obviously didn't know what they were doing. If, you know, and then be like, ah, I never would have traded them. Like I thought you loved the Mavericks. I thought you loved their fans. I thought you loved Luca. Like that's crazy.

That's crazy to say that after the fact, you have to take some blame. I should have vetted these guys better. I wish I hadn't sold the team. He didn't do any of it. He's just been like, I never would have done it. Cool. Guess what? You don't have to look at dodge and shit anymore. Or the maps. There are some memes going around that are like a reminder of Mike Torico's greatest lesson that he ever shared with me was the points you don't make, make the points you do make that much stronger, which is still something I struggle with, but it's really good. Like if you have one, one point, like sell it, but don't sell it with

.567 that aren't really as strong and almost hurt the strength of one, two, three, and four to hammer home your point. So, Hey, Luca's gone. So it was like the Mavs fumble. Have you seen this meme? So it's Luca, and then it's Brunson, and then it's Grimes, who single-handedly is like screwing up some of these lottery odds for the Sixers.

But then it's Perzingis, who by the way, they couldn't wait to get the fuck out of there. Right? Right, dude. Derek Jones Jr. was over there, and you're like, okay, well, I mean, you know, he's a nice player, but there's just some dudes in that picture where I'm like,

actually you're kind of ruining the point, but you just thought it would look better with seven players instead of just three. Do you believe the transition plan for the Celtics and WIC? Because I could see where a group comes in and goes, WIC has been. Again, I think with on that shortlist, we know that he's cared. We know that I think he gets it in the way that fans would want your owner to

get it. They have always spent money when they've had to spend money. They're staring down the barrel of this massive tax bill, which I think it'd be sort of weird for WIC to go like, Hey, now that you have to pay this bill, I would recommend not trading any of these players and keeping this window open. Let's give Kate a 10 million a year. No, here's what I believe. I think it's very possible.

And I don't know for sure that part of the conditions when they got to the final four were like, we're going to consider the bids or favor the bids that WIC is in there for three years as the governor and the transition. And if you can get to like 6 billion and you have that in there, you're going to have a better chance. And there might've been some of the other bids that were like, all right, our offer is five, eight, and we take over the team immediately. Um, I just don't know if that's in there or not. And I don't know if this is Cuban 2.0 or like, no, no, he's going to run the team. And then nine months from now, the new guys like, Hey, WIC, um, I don't know if this is Cuban 2.0 or is like, no, no, he's going to run the team. And then nine months from now, the new guys like, Hey, wick.

Um, I took your court side seats. So I moved you over. You're going to be in a suite from now on and all this stuff that happened to Cuban. We knew the Cuban thing was done. And I can't remember if we talked about or not when he wasn't involved with the Western conference trophy presentation and all that stuff. And then there was stuff that you were hearing during the finals about they wouldn't let him sit,

you know, they wouldn't give him the courtsides. He was scrambling to sit courtside and the team only gets two and there was just a lot of buzz that, oh, he didn't play this one correctly. I don't know what the- Or it was played the way it's supposed to be played. Is it when somebody writes you a check for billions that- Guess what?

They want to own the team. That's why I have no idea where we're going with the Celtics. What was your last sliding door? Because we're almost done with this segment. If Luca is drafted by Atlanta and he stays with the Hawks, does that mean no Dyson Daniels? Yes.

I didn't know you had a Luca one one. So I had another Luka one with Atlanta. I don't know how different it really is. He's probably still on Atlanta. Trey is with Dallas. They likely don't have a finals run in 24. But I don't know. That one's not nearly as exciting as the Luka one that you did with everything else. So why don't you just share your last one that you think.

I'll just rip through really quick. The what if Dame goes to Miami is fun because it has a whole bunch of ramifications. Miami, I offered hero, Lowry and 28 and 31st. Phoenix, if this all happens, Phoenix, the,andre Ayton and Kamara for, uh, Nurchich and Allen, that trade doesn't happen. An Ayton trade probably happens though. Rip, but I'm not positive Grayson Allen's in it because that was part of like, you know, trying to get Dame and they had to move money off and put Grayson

Allen somewhere, who knows? The Bucks don't lose drew to the Celtics. They get a 29 first and swaps in 28 and 30. Um, Portland Portland ends up getting, they trade drew to Boston for Brogdon Williams, a 24 Golden State first and a 29 Boston first. Basically what I wrote down is every team is worse off except Portland and Boston. The Bucks are worse off with what with Dame and the fact that it didn't elevate them the way they thought even though Dame's been I think good this year. Dame's been better offensively this year.

There's no comparison. I test wise he's's looked really good. Uh, stats are good. Heat are way worse off. Phoenix is worse off. Um, so yeah, it's, it's just a weird one. I think it helped us out. Thanks. When the title is the biggest sliding door from that. Yeah, let's, let's stay. What if they do the Miami deal? Does that mean Butler gets extended? Does it mean that Miami's still in the mix?

Does it mean that Butler's happy? Does it mean that Golden State has no other option? I think if you do that Dame trade, you then have to do the extension with Jimmy because you can't do all that and then not have a Jimmy relationship. You don't think Miami wouldn't just like, hey, we'll just run it to pre-agency. See what's out there for you. I don't know. I don't think you can, you can't give up all that for Dame and be like, we're trying to win right now.

Also, I didn't factor in whatever happened to Bam Adebayo in the last year. What happened? Why isn't he an impactful top 20 guy anymore? Does if Dame's on that team, is he? Well, having another all NBA, not that Dame's making all NBA this year, but having somebody like his shop making would certainly make it a lot easier.

I mean, they're a mess right now. Makes man better, it makes Butler if he's happy and they took care of him an extension and they might be a contender. So that's a good one. Yeah, I think there's some assumptions in that though. Like what if Dame comes in gets us 30 isn't playing defense and It becomes a son situation. It's not yeah, it's not Like you just assumed a lot about what they would be doing in the East. I Don't know. I think they would have taken care of doing in the East. I don't know.

I think they would have taken care of Butler in that scenario. So I feel like it's two guys. Not. All right. Fine. Then let's say it's, it's Butler and Dame with BAM, no hero. Is that a top six team in the East right now? I think they might've thought it was, but you're right.

It might've been a sun situation where the league got way deeper and this recipe you had for a big three didn't make as much sense in 25 as it did now. I think it would have helped them more last year. Also might help them get some, some, some buyout dudes and who knows? I think that would add struggle, trouble against Boston. A couple more quick ones. What a fish be, doesn't have new owner syndrome because, uh, he did that KD for bridges, cam Crowder for first and swap.

Um, it also led to the second billale trade, which saved, he basically saved Washington and saved Brooklyn with those two trades. So that's gotta be thrown in there. What if the Eudoka scandal never happens? Do the Celtics win in 23? What happens to the Rockets? Does any of this even matter? Did it all play out exactly the way it should have played out?

Is he still second row Joe to you guys? He might be third row Joe. Um, what if Danny just doesn't blow up the jazz in 22 coming off of 49 33 season when they lost to Dallas because Luca was hurt half the series, but Brunson went nuts and it seemed like, what is this? This team's broken. Jalen Brunson just lit them up, but nobody knew he was Jalen Brunson yet. And then they ended up making those two massive trades to Cleveland and to

Minnesota and basically create these new, you know, real contenders for two other teams. I imagine Mitchell would have started getting loud, I think at some point. Yeah, probably. I don't think that was going to be up to just Utah. What if gold state takes Lamello and Franz in those two drafts? Again, stupid. No, it isn't stupid because I wrote it down. No, but I mean, it's like this is like in a draft, you can do this all the time.

But it is, there is this alternate universe where they take Lamello and they take Franz. Did they win the 22 title at that point? Maybe they don't. Are they better now? Maybe they are. I don't know. It's just like. Steps like I'm done. I'm out. Does Lamelo fit in their system? Do they trade them within a year? Does Lamelo, does Lamelo, does he actually look like a future hall of famers? 16, 17 a game, wide open threes all the time. Yeah. Passing over the top. Like could Lamelo actually,

I know he's a stat filling guy, but would he look like a really nice, winning guy. Compliment fun, winning player. I will say coming over Franz, which I think was argued really extensively and Golden state side. And the whole case for Franz was he's an IQ guy. He's movement. He can fits in what we do that. That just would have been a better pick for them.

I had Bob Myers on and talked about that pick after, and then was like, who would you have taken then? Cause I was like, it just, Kaminga felt like the competition he was going up against and he was like, well, who would you have taken? I go, it's totally unfair for me to say like after Franz has had the start to his career that, oh, you should have taken Franz. So we came to some kind of agreement with that, but I, I think it's a, a lot like these conversations that guys will have and they go, okay, but if it's a lot like the

Jaylen Brown thing with H, if with this body type and this kind of athleticism, is there enough there that we see that we can build on that this could be like a really special perimeter player where you're taking them. That's what I think breaks a lot of ties in these war rooms. And then we look back being like, how do those guys fuck that one up? I think they finally realized that the, that they, as long as Steph and Draymond were on the team, Hoops IQ had to be the number one thing. Maybe they struggled with that for a couple of years.

Uh, two more quick ones. This is just a funny one. What are you saying about Wiseman and Kamiga? What if COVID never happened? And I went back and I looked at the standings and I remembered, and actually listened to like 10 minutes of a pod we did that Sunday before COVID of Lake, the Lakers finally beat the Quippers. And we did a pod about what does this mean to the Lakers and say, like, the Quippers had already beaten them twice. But the Lakers, when COVID happens, the Lakers are 49 and 14.

They're number one in the West. The Quippers are 44 and 20 and the Nuggets are 43 and 22. So, and those are going to be our three teams, basically. Milwaukee was 53 and 12 and Giannis was about to win his second MVP. And Milwaukee, I just forgot this. Milwaukee was like, that was the big obstacle. That was the one. And then it was like LA versus LA.

And then here's Giannis over here and what, how is this going to play out? And COVID happens. They come back and Giannis gets hurt in the first round. And that's how Miami jumps in. The Quippers completely fall apart in the bubble. So COVID never happens. I don't know what happens that season, but it's probably Milwaukee or the two LA teams.

I think the title comes from one of those three. I think it would have been way better for the Clippers. Um, here's my last one. This is just for you. Cause I, this, you, this is like the ultimate dumb sliding door thing. What if Philly doesn't bail on Al Horford after one year? It was such a bad fit though with Embiid. It just, it just didn't work. So can I give you the trades?

Yeah. Cause they had to get all this pick by the way, that we talked about before. November, November, 2020 coming out of the bubble season, heading to the next season, Darrell has just taken over and Horford's got three years left on his deal. They trade him with Maladon, Michich and a 25 first for Danny Green. That was the trade. They put OKC puts Horford on ice for a year. They trade him to the Celtics for Kemba in the 16th pick.

What happens to the 16th pick? They pass on Shen Goon and Trey Murphy with the pick they get from Horford and traded to Houston for two heavily protected Detroit Washington picks. That was kind of a bad trade, but they just could have taken Shen Goon or Trey Murphy. Celtics make the 22 finals with Horford. They win the 24th title with Horford. That was kind of a bad trade, but they just could have taken Shangoon or Trey Murphy. Celtics make the 22 finals with Warford. They win the 24th title with Warford and Philly is now tanking in 25 to

keep this pick that they gave up because they decided out. Warford was a bad fit with Joel Embiid. Who doesn't fucking play? Guess who needed a backup center for it? Joel Embiid. Tough one. Tough one, but it was ugly and you felt like at the time it was worth moving. They had to do something.

Yeah. What's crazy is that Al Horford had negative value. They're like, you gotta take, if you take Al Horford, I need, I need, I, you also have to throw in a pick. You gotta take this guy back. That's how bad it was. And now he's like one of the most beloved Celtic teammates, probably ever. Yeah, right. Cause it's two transactions there where it's a negative because you're getting off a Kemba's disastrous thing, but you're including the pick to take him back.

I'm just so glad that Al got that second act in Boston, because it was this. Deal where, you know, he's just not going to be appreciated the right way when he's signed at a max contract, but it's so hard to sign any free agents. Like you should be thrilled, especially at the time and age that Horford was at. It's like, you can get this guy like, I hope he says yes to our max offer. And then, you know, look, the counting stats aren't going to be good enough for a lot of fans when it's Al Horford.

And then for him to extend it this far,, even a couple of years ago, I was like, when is this thing going to be over? Can you really ask to run him this way? And I mean, thank God for Horford, because without him, I really wonder what they would look like to have that kind of insurance against Przingus where you need somebody who's really good to play all those games that you know, Przingus is going to miss. You know, it would have been a fun, I've mentioned, forgot to mention one other what if with this, the, the, the, the Horford shade doesn't exist for the Celtics, they're stuck with Kemba for one more year, but they take Trey

Murphy with the 16th pick who's kind of like the perfect interchangeable swing to come in. Like that, that's another one. But what ifs, those are our favorite ones. Um, somehow we went for almost two hours so we don't have to do the thing at the top of the podcast. I think we're good with the pod March madness. I'm sure you're enjoying it. Um, not really.

Not really. No, not with St. John's most anticipation I've had for St. John's at 25 years. I already told that story about St. John's last Sunday. Yeah. I did not leave my apartment and leave guests behind this time around.

I knew that shooting thing was probably going to really hurt him. I didn't expect that it was going to happen in the second game against Arkansas, but Lewis was just really bad and you could even see at some point edge of fork grab them and be like, you need to wake up. You need to wake up. So I think on the whole, you need to look at it this way. If you're a St. John's fan, you've had nothing to be this excited about for a quarter century.

Patino is everything and that as advertised, considering he's won everywhere he's gone. So it's disappointing, but they won the big East. They beat you con twice. They're back on the map. They're likely only going to get better until Patino probably gets back into like, you know, who knows what job is open to him. You never know because Patino will just take him. But if he's content, wants to sustain St. John's, I think that they'll be even better.

So it was a really fun season for a program that, you know, at some point during every year when I would watch him, I wouldn't really talk about it all that much. I just wanted to enjoy it as a fan because there's very few things that I still have in my life that are just about, Hey, this is going to be a fan experience. I don't really have to talk about it. I'm not breaking down St. John's after a bunch of those games. It brought me so much joy this year to feel like you were a part of it.

Again, the way I did when I was a kid, the way I was in college, the way I was in my twenties, um, that there's just too many positives for me to be too upset about losing to Arkansas. Cause they also can't shoot. They were like three forties out of 364 teams. So you knew this game was coming again. I didn't think it'd be after one round, but. Do you think he should have done the press conference after and done the Chris Mullins not walking through that door, St. John's fence, bill winning, walking through that door, St. John's fans. Bill Whittington's not walking through that door. Walter Barrett's not walking through that door. If he did, he'd be old and gray. I would imagine a lot of guys are going to be walking through that door though.

And if they had one, even a bench guy who was a five who could stretch the floor a little bit. I know Florida just escaped UConn today. Could have been my guy Brady Dunlop. Yeah, I know. He got hurt. Yeah, they're missing. I'm sure he'll just recruit two shooters now. I think he should stay for a little while

because I think it became a real thing in New York. I think he's smart enough to realize that the point of his career that he's been in, where he's basically done everything and he's made a shitload of money, why not try to be the king of New York for one more year? Cause I think he's one of the most crazy competitive people ever. I think he, there's another level to him that's even beyond like the most competitive people that you know.

I mean, nobody's ever resigned from as much money as he had at stake with the Celtics where he's just like, I resigned. You could have the money back. That never happens ever. It's like, let's negotiate a buyout for three weeks. He's like, I'm out. Here's my facts. But I don't know, man.

I've just seen it too many times. I've seen it too many times with him where he's just like, okay, what's the next challenge? And I think that's just kind of the way he's wired. It doesn't even matter how old he is because the guy is, you know, arguably the greatest college basketball coach of his era. You know, I know there can be arguments made for other people, but I mean, this guy went to Greece after Louisville and you were like, okay, we're never going

to hear from this guy again. And then he shows up cause I own is like, we'll do it. Yeah. And then he wins. In two years, he has St. John's as a two seat and winning the big East. So look, man, I would think there'd be a lot of people that would want to go there. The New York thing for St. John's has always been a little difficult because

you'd always think this is automatic. But then for the longest time, the New York kids actually didn't want to go there. They wanted to go somewhere else. The setup wasn't necessarily that great. The NIL part of it, you know, you can get into the USC thing. Like why wouldn't, why wouldn't, must be able to just get whoever he wanted to in LA and the marketability of LA and SC and all that stuff. Why wouldn't, why wouldn't, must be able to just get whoever he wanted to in LA and the marketability of LA and SC and all that stuff.

And it's like, man, I actually think it's a little bit more complicated. I also argue the SC campus situation is, is better than maybe St. John's over the years, but I don't care. Like I'm not, I was bummed out they lost, but I was so happy about this year that I'm going to let that part of it. I think there could be some kind of memo to Spike Lee though. Like we're good. We don't need you decked out in St.

John's gear. Spike, can we talk? Yeah. Lay back. You don't get, you don't get enough attention. You know, the next thing has been great for Spike. Yeah. That good for him.

He didn't need another team. He didn't need to add a second one. There's no way he was rooting for St. John's or playing Georgetown, is my guess. Very possible. Rossello, back on your pod on Tuesday? Yeah. Yeah, we're doing, I don't know what we're doing. All right. Well, I'll see you, uh, in Boston, Massachusetts this week, because we're doing

a live rewatchable show. Which one am I doing? What time? We're doing Good Will Hunting. Thursday. Thursday. What time is the theater open? Thursday at, uh, at night. It's sold out. It's at, uh, it's at house of blues. We're doing that. And then I'm making you come to at least a couple Coolidge corner theater. Um, you gotta come to it.

You gotta come see like heat or good fellows or one of those movies, the town. You gotta go see one of them in a theater with us. I got so nervous when somebody sent me the itinerary and they're like, they want me to do the town again. I go, I'm not doing that. I'm never doing it. We're just doing good hunting on Thursday. I was on the rewatchables this week. So we got that coming up in the schedule. Right. We had a category in the rewatchables called blind call to Rossello. And every time we called, you didn't answer because you never answer your phone. And then this time I did the call and Van goes, call back, call second time.

Or Craig said that maybe he had his second time maybe to go through called. You answered and you did, uh, you did about a minute on blue chips. It was great. I was in the car too. All right. I'll see you in Boston. See you. All right.

That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Rosillo. Thanks to Saruti and Gahau and Kyle. As always, don't forget about Prestige TV tonight. Doing a podcast episode on White Lotus, episode six. New rewatchable is coming on Monday. We did Blue Chips, Celtic City on HBO and on Max 9 p.m. Monday night, the first Bird episode.

We're going into the 80s, as you can tell, I enjoyed it. And then on this podcast, I'm definitely gonna be having a podcast on Tuesday. Not sure about Thursday yet. So at least Tuesday you're gonna have me. I will see you on Tuesday. I don't have feelings with him. On the wayside, on the brink of so I never said I don't have feelings with him. Must be 21 plus in President-elect states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star

Casino or 18 plus in President DC. Gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-887-897777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here, visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPENY in New York.