The Bill Simmons Podcast - A Cavs Revival, Far-Fetched NFL Predictions, Plus Kevin Smith’s BS Pod Debut | With Rob Mahoney and Peter Schrager

Episode Date: November 4, 2022

The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Rob Mahoney to discuss the red-hot Cavaliers, Donovan Mitchell's seamless fit in Cleveland's roster, postseason speculation, and more (2:17). Then Bill is joined by Fox Sports and NFL Network's Peter Schrager to discuss some far-fetched predictions for the remainder of the 2022-23 NFL season before making the Million-Dollar Picks for NFL Week 9 (26:22). Finally, Bill talks with filmmaker Kevin Smith about his new film, 'Clerks III,' his start in filmmaking with the original, 'Clerks,' dealing with film critics, the origins of podcasts, his professional relationship with Ben Affleck, 'Chasing Amy,' New Jersey's Mount Rushmore, and much more (1:15:59). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Kevin Smith, Peter Schrager, and Rob Mahoney Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, if you're a Lindsay Lohan fan, and who's not, we're doing 10 days of Lindsay Lohan on the Ring or Dish podcast. I can't believe they haven't invited me to come on yet. 10 straight podcasts leading up to Lindsay Lohan's exciting comeback in some probably terrible Netflix movie. But yeah, Lindsay Lohan, great for content in the 2000s. We didn't have a website back then,

but we do have a podcast network and you can hear all those podcasts on Ringer Dish. It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. Football is in full action. FanDuel's highest rated sports book is the best place to bet it all.

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it's 90 November on the rewatchables. We have a new one coming on Monday night. We did American Gigolo on Monday. It's four movies from the early 80s. They're all a little naughty. All new R movies. Sleek, sweaty, sexy.

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Rob Mahoney and I, we had to do it. We had to break the seal on the Cleveland Cavaliers. Are they a finals team conversation? Because they look damn impressive. So we talked about that. Then Peter Schrager came on. We did some far-fetched predictions and we did some million dollar picks.

Three straight winning weeks in a row for million dollar picks. Look out. And then last but not least, for the first time ever, director Kevin Smith. Because Clerks 3 is out. Did you know that?

Clerks 3 is out. And we've never had Kevin Smith on the podcast. So it gave us an excuse to dive back into the 1990s and the world in which Clerks was created and had a really fun time talking to him. So there you go. That's the podcast. So it gave us an excuse to dive back into the 1990s and the world in which Clerks was created and had a really fun time talking to him. So there you go. That's the pod. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, the ringers, Rob Mahoney is here. We're going to talk Cleveland Cavaliers. Out of all the plots that have transpired

over the last 16 days of the NBA season, we've had a lot of soap opera stuff. We've had some semi-sinister stuff. We've had some disappointments. But there's one feel-good story, and it's the Cleveland Cavaliers, a team that I think we all felt was going to be a playoff team, was going to be a fringe contender. I think they're over under, maybe it was 46 and a half, somewhere in that range. So it was right in the ballpark of Toronto and teams like that. And maybe had the upside if it gelled with the guards.

We didn't expect, Rob, Mitchell comes in, this is the best he's ever looked. Unreal. And this is scratching, not only scratching the ceiling, punching his fist through the ceiling. And then last night, in a really, really, really fascinating game against the Celtics, him and Garland just looked really good together. Garland's out 13 minutes into the opening night. This is the first time they got to

play together. They get thrown into the fire. Celtics lost them a few nights ago. They want revenge. And it just, the way it looked, I'm trying not to overreact, but it's one of the best teams I've watched this year. And I don't think that's an overreaction. I mean, if you're trying not to overreact, I fear you've invited the wrong person on this podcast because they've been such a feel good story.

I'm having a hard time talking myself out of the fact that they look like the second best team in the East. Like to me, it's Milwaukee and it's Cleveland. And then everyone else is trying to figure their stuff out. But Cleveland is a young team that, as you mentioned, so many different guys are still figuring out what they

can be. And yet they still look so much better than pretty much everybody else in the conference right now. Boston threw different lineups at them last night. I thought Boston played really hard. I would slightly disagree. I think it's Milwaukee. And then I think it's Cleveland-Boston-Boston-Cleveland would slightly disagree. I think it's Milwaukee. And then I think it's Cleveland, Boston, Boston, Cleveland, whatever order.

I think it's going to be those two. And then I think, I really do think it drops after that. But last night, Boston's like, all right, we'll play Grant Williams with Horford. No, actually, we're going to go small. We'll bring Brogdon in. Can you handle this? And Cleveland was able to navigate everything. Mitchell's playing with so much confidence. Oh my God. This was the rub of the trade last year, right? It's like, what Mitchell

am I getting? Am I getting the guy that I just watched completely milleted on defense in the playoffs and has been nursing some injuries, didn't seem that happy? Or am I getting the guy who went toe to toe with Denver in those playoff series? What am I getting? I was in the camp. This is somebody who has at least proven if you need to go mano a mano in a playoff game and a game seven and a game four on the road, whatever, he's not going to be afraid and he can kind of carry you. He's been better than that.

He's been an absolute badass and he's given them like a starring presence that I'm not sure the Cavs have ever had outside LeBron, to be honest with you. And certainly not recently. Like they've had guys who are good. They have good scores, good creators, but the combination of presence and poise and on-court leadership and just effort making huge plays that very few players can make. And I think what's heartening about that, to your point about the defense and the fact that he did really mail it in at times for Utah, not just last year or the last couple years.

We saw him in these games against the Celtics, tough overtime games, come up with huge rebounds, come up with huge stops, show some of what made him such an intriguing prospect from the start, the do-it-all, all-around game. Not just a guy who can go get you a bucket and who can pull up for threes, but he can

do all this stuff. And if that's the player that Cleveland's getting, I mean, it puts them in a totally different class because we're just seeing, as you mentioned with Garland, their best lineup has barely had a chance to play together. And they've already looked this good. What are they going to look like 50 games from now when Garland and Mitchell are

fully synergized? Everyone knows exactly where to be and how to move because the ball movement is amazing. The effort level is super high with the Cavs right now. They look like a contending team. They look like a team that's going to be able to push pretty much anyone else in the East. Yeah, and I don't think it's an overreaction. There's two types of overreactions

coming out of the first three weeks, I would say. One is, oh, that team is better than I thought, than we all thought that was going to be. I think the Bulls last year were a good example, where the Bulls came to Rosen looked great. And we were like, oh, let's recalibrate our expectations here.

Then sometimes you get the team that it's pretty clear this team's going to be a problem. And that's just the way it is. I don't think there's anything fluky about this team. I love all the shots they get. And they always have the backbone of Allen and Mobley where they're always going to have rim protection. They they always have the backbone of Allen and Mobley. Yep.

Where they're always going to have rim protection. They're always going to have rebounding. And those guys are fun to play with. Like they, you don't have to run like the ceremonial post-ups for either of them. Mobley's stats are down. Like Mobley's, he's like 16 and six, two assists. Like for usually second year guys jump, but it's fine when you actually watch him. And I've watched a lot of the Cavs this year.

When you watch him in it, it's not like he's getting left out. He's not frozen out. He's involved. He'll make big plays. He'll have follow-ups. They'll run some stuff through him occasionally, but really more for his passing. The Mitchell Garland thing, that was the X factor to me. What is this going to look like? Is Garland going to be

cool with this? We did the over-under pod and we were talking about Garland for the assist title. Like, because I think he's, I actually think he's more of a point guard than maybe he got credit for because he had to do so much last year. And Rosillo said the same thing

where he kind of had to score more than maybe he wanted to because they didn't really have any other options. Now, last night, you saw him as a real point guard who could then also create his own offense. I think those guys are going to be great together. I really do. Like, I don't have a lot of doubts.

Doesn't sound like you do either. No. And Garland is a guy who wants to give the ball up. Like, he wants to share with Mitchell and get moving off the ball and create shots that way, too. And he's really good at it. And we saw in these games against the Celtics in particular, I mean, these are high-level defenders. These are guys who just came off a run to the NBA Finals

and he's toying with them. He's setting guys up to get lobs to Jared Allen, to get feeds inside to Evan Mobley, to kick out to shooters. His control and feel for those situations, I think it's probably disproportionately high relative to what the awareness of Darius Garland as a

playmaker is league-wide. This is one of the most impressive young point guards in the league right now. A burgeoning playmaker in every sense. What we don't know is when it really comes down to it, how are teams going to try to attack him and Mitchell defensively?

How are they going to try to exploit that lack of size? And we're probably not going to know that until the first round of the playoffs, maybe the second round of the playoffs. That's just not the kind of thing that happens in the regular season at that level. Between then and now, I think there's a lot that the Cavs can still work out

and still get better at and still improve at, which is a scary place when you're already starting from a point that's this good. They're sixth in offense and sixth in defense. They're one of three teams with double-digit point differential. Listen, if Mitchell's going to play as hard as he's played the first seven games,

I'm not as worried about it as I was before the season because he really gave a shit. And it was funny. I thought the... I was talking to my... I was talking to one of my friends about it. He's a Celtics fan. And I was like, the thing the, I was talking to my, who was, I was talking to one of my friends about it is Celtics fan.

And I was like, the thing that alarmed me about the game yesterday was I really felt like the Celtics tried. Like I actually felt like that was their a game. I thought Tatum, especially in the fourth quarter and OT was like balls to the wall. And he had some brilliant stuff. Slow start,

but I thought near the end, same thing for Jalen Brown. And on paper, they have the best backcourt of defenders and wings to throw at those two guards. And yet those guards were getting where they wanted to get to and they were getting good shots. And that was, like every team has their kryptonite team. I do worry like with this matchup, like we saw two close games in a row where Mitchell was able to navigate and get shots and situations that he liked on Friday night and then tonight.

And I don't think that's an awesome sign for the Celtics because this is supposed to be their strength. Defending, scoring guards. And you look at the other side of it, the Cavs had lots of chances where they were trying to feed Jared Allen inside against a smaller guard or something

and they couldn't quite get it worked out. That's the kind of stuff that looks a lot better in March and April a lot of times when you have a lot more experience in terms of what those angles look like. I think to your point about Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum, I thought they both played really effective games overall, really high-level stuff from them.

And yet, Evan Mobley is guarding Jalen Brown for a lot of this game. And I thought he had some unbelievable defensive plays and some defensive plays on the weak side that you look at it and it's like, tell me this is not the shadow of Kevin Garnett straddling two players at once, guarding everybody

on the weak side, cutting off everything. And I know how ridiculous that sounds, but Evan Mobley is the kind of player who makes you say ridiculous shit. He has that kind of defensive potential. And again, that's where you're starting from. That's where we are now on November 3rd. There's just so much more room for this team to grow, especially relative to teams like Miami,

teams like Philadelphia. We just found out James Harden's going to miss a month of basketball. And so they're not even going to be able to start figuring out their issues until he really gets back. It's starting to feel more and more like this is not an early trend with the Cavs. This is just the state of affairs. This is a team that's going to be in that mix in the top tiers of the conference right now.

Yeah, they lost on opening night to Toronto in the game Garland got hurt. They lost by three. They've won all six since. They're shooting splits. It's early, but they're 47, 40, 80. They're, I think, one of two teams shooting 40 plus from three. And it makes sense because, you know, Dean Wade, it's like, wow, Dean Wade's in the rotation, but that dude makes shots. Love has been a good three-point shooter for a while, right? Mitchell

and Garland. Garland's a better three-point shooter than Mitchell, but they have some dead eyes around there. I like what you said about the other contenders because I think that's an important piece. Miami already doesn't have a bench anymore. They played, I think, eight guys last night, and you could have probably thrown away the last three, and they're putting Butler, missed yesterday's game, and that's going to be a 60 game, probably a year.

So Lowry hasn't been injured yet. Philly already is having stuff. Brooklyn, I don't want to cross them off, but that's going to be a play-in team the way their season's going. And then Toronto, I think is the other one that's looked, if you're going to say like Milwaukee here, you have Cleveland, then Boston.

I still think it's dead even. And Toronto is probably the safest health kind of continuity bet of everybody we have left, right? Because at least it's young team identity. I have relative faith that all those guys are going to stay healthy. Siakam's playing well, but I don't think they're in the class of Cleveland and Boston. I think it's like a notch below.

Yeah, I think they would need some element that they haven't shown yet. And it's hard to imagine what that would be. Maybe it's Scottie Barnes or OG taking even another mid-season leap. But you're right. Siakam's already looked so good. It's hard to imagine him playing,

him going even up another level from this. And so to see them kind of climb that ladder through the East, I think they would need something like that. Or maybe it's a mid-season trade. Maybe it's a consolidation. I don't know what that looks like exactly. So I don't know that they're quite in that category, but they've been really impressive.

They've been really stout. And as you mentioned, they have the continuity that these other teams don't. And Atlanta is probably lingering. Murray, they finally got going last night. And that team's talented, and that team's going to be in the mix. The East is better than the West this year, which I think

we can safely say because I don't know what to expect from the Clippers in this Kawhi situation, which we don't talk about. Golden State, it's clear that they're trying to figure out who they are and it's going to take 25-30 games, but they're not the powerhouse we trying to figure out who they are and it's going to take 25, 30 games, but they're not the powerhouse who thought.

And then Minnesota, I think has been the big shocker. And it's funny. I love the guard. I love the Mitchell trade for Cleveland. And we did pods after the Mitchell trade and we did them after the go bear trade. And I,

the Mitchell trade just made sense to me. It's like, I like the framework of this team. He fits in. I can see what the identity of this team is. The only question is, how are those two guards going to play together? Minnesota, that's a lot for Gobert.

We've never seen anybody win with them. And then on top of it, it's like, wait, Towns and Gobert together, what's that going to look like? And it's been, I think, way clumsier than I think even the biggest skeptics would have thought. Cleveland's been the opposite. It looks like they've been together for three years. And I guess that the thing to watch with

them, because we're a while away from the trade deadline, they have Love, who's an expiring at 29, and he seems like an important chemistry guy for them. And a good bench guy, right? So I don't think they'd be nuts about moving from him. Levert's at almost 19. Okoro's at seven this year, 8.9 next year. In that fifth spot, like last night Levert was playing crunch time for them. If you're actually going to like be a finals team, I'm not, that's the spot I'm looking at.

It's like, can Okoro get there in time? And there's been stuff written about this. Like this is clearly like the thing to watch with this team because they have the four. But I also think there's going to be a lot of sellers. So if they do want to fix that, what do you feel about Levert with this lineup? Because I'm not positive. That's the piece that makes me nervous for them.

I don't love his fit necessarily with those other guys just because I want the ball with Mitchell and Garland. And so you're kind of pulling it away just by the nature of the usage if LaVers can have the ball in his hands. That said, I do think he's played his best basketball as a Cav this young season. He looks

noticeably better than after the trade deadline. And some of that is the perimeter shooting is maybe a little flukily high. Like he's hitting a ton of threes right now that that might come down a little bit. But the playmaking... Yeah, did you see his stats?

He's 33% field goal and like 42% three. Yeah, it's one of those seasons. 21% inside the arc. Not great. That's not what you want. So I would not be surprised if you get into situations later in the season, even before the deadline,

even without a trade, where Dean Wade is the fifth in those arrangements. Just to get a more pure shooter who can stand up a little bit more defensively sometimes, or at least guard different kinds of players than Levert can. Because we've seen in the closing elements of these close games,

Levert's not really touching the ball. And if he's shooting like he is now, that's not so much of a problem. But if that number comes down, if he's more of like a little on and off as a three-point shooter, then you have to start negotiating some other options. So I wouldn't be surprised

if they kind of mess with the lineup a little bit as far as that spot. But I think he has a good place for this team with the bench. I think his playmaking in terms of activating all of these other guys is still really important for them. Yeah, even if he's a heat check guy, second unit. in terms of activating all of these other guys is still really important for them. Yeah, even if he's a heat check guy, second unit.

I had the same thought as you. It's weird to see him as the guy in the corner. So I'm not sure that that's what his game is. He's one of those guys that he's better when he has the ball more, but I'm not sure the team's better. Yeah. So you almost want like the Max Drews or, you know, Jay Crowder is somebody,

and I don't know what happened to Jay Crowder. He's just like, I'm not playing. And the sons are like, cool, we're going to have a, we're going to have one of the best records in the league again. And we're fine.

Don't hurry back. So I guess Okoro is the other one because defensively he's had some moments this season where it's like, Oh, there he is. But I don't think offensively they trust him. And when they get into a playoff series, nobody's going to guard him the way it is now. They're already starting not to.

That's where we are in the regular season. It's only going to get more extreme. And what you're trading off there in terms of Levert is like, Okoro kind of stops your ball movement in one way if people aren't guarding him. Levert is probably the closest thing this team has right now to a guy who just holds it

a little too long, who doesn't swing it, who doesn't hit the guys inside when they're open at the exact right time. We're picking nits about a team that's been hyper successful, but I think that's where the Cavs are. They're in a position where you have to start looking at this really small stuff and say, how do you

compete with Milwaukee? How do you compete with the Celtics? How do you compete with the Celtics? How do you compete with a fully operational version of the Sixers? I think they deserve those kinds of aspirations. So on FanDuel, Milwaukee is the favorite, Boston second, plus 230, plus 240. Brooklyn's plus 550, but I think that's just because they were so low before. It's hard to get too crazy with that yet. Philly's 10-1 and Cleveland's up to 10-1 and Miami's 10-1. Cleveland's 24-1 to win the title.

It's not crazy to me that they're going to make the finals. But much like last year with the Celtics, sometimes it's actually more common for the team to be a year early than a year late. And I just think they have to be considered. You're talking about just who are the finals teams, right? You have Milwaukee and Boston. I'm not counting out Golden State.

Phoenix, I think, has to at least be given the respect for one more year. And I think Memphis is in there. After that, I would probably, I like what I've seen from Cleveland more than any other team. Like Denver feels like we're going to have to reevaluate them at about like the 25 game mark, right?

It's something's off, but I think it's rust with the guys haven't played together. There's some ring rust with Murray. Dallas, the usage rate on Luka is just, we've never seen anything like, even Westbrook in 2017 wasn't like this. So I want to watch that a little more.

And then the Clippers with Kawhi, I think it's too early to say anything. But yeah, from like just kind of a safe bet of, yeah, I could see Cleveland getting, I don't know, the three or the four seed, having a home game seven in round one. And then I honestly would not want to play them if I'm anybody except Milwaukee.

And even if you're Milwaukee, they have two big guys to throw at Milwaukee. So I don't know. The reason we're having this segment is I don't think it's inconceivable that the Cleveland Cavaliers are going to be in the finals. It's possible. And at least that they would be in the conference finals. I think that's likeceivable that the Cleveland Cavaliers are going to be in the finals? It's possible. At least that they

would be in the conference finals. I think that's a pretty plausible outcome given the way they've played so far. Maybe Milwaukee is what makes this whole conversation just like a cute little diversion. Maybe the Bucs are just like... If there's been anyone who has played above the level that Donovan Mitchell has played this season, I think

that's a pretty select group of players. Giannis is number one with a bullet. Like that guy is, he has been as unbelievable as you would expect him to be. And the Bucs are that good. So maybe whoever it is that's competing with the Bucs

is just kind of running for second anyway. But the fact that the Cavs are in that conversation, I think is great for kind of the state of their organization and certainly a great indicator on the Mitchell trade right out of the gate.

Yeah, I should have probably said that more emphatically. All roads lead through Milwaukee. Yeah. But as we look at, all right, who is going to compete with this team, either in the West or the East, that's a list of six to eight teams. And I did not think Cleveland would be on that list that early, but we saw it. It happened last year with Memphis. Every year there's a young team that it just kind of makes sense when you're watching them. And the Mobley piece, I'm glad you talked about him earlier

because he continues to be one of my favorite players in the league. I also really liked Mitchell and I was really disappointed in how he played last year. I just felt like he was selling himself short as a two-way guy. And I like that he's got the thing back. I have to ask before we go

so the Knicks fans and the Knicks in general I didn't think they should make the trade I thought RJ and the two firsts was enough

but then when you watch what he's doing in Cleveland you think like this is a guy who clearly wanted to get out of Utah and away from Gobert and wanted a new city new challenge

and you think like you put that guy in New York City with the Knicks fans, if he was doing this, it would be the story of the season, right? Yeah. He would be leading every podcast,

he'd be the center of every conversation. It's just like the difference in those markets is kind of the difference in that kind of coverage. But I still think the Knicks are in a position as a team where even a great Donovan Mitchell moves you into the 4-5 range. Yeah. And that's the difference in what we're talking about.

Mitchell for the Knicks was an endgame move. RJ Barrett's going to get a little better. Some of their other young guys will get better. All of that notwithstanding, it's just a difference in upward mobility for the Cavs. And that's all about Mobley and Garland those are just two guys with a lot of headroom and so when you're importing Mitchell as a guy who can be

the definitive star of your team for now and can kind of help these guys along and help them hit another level in the process that's what makes it a different exercise in terms of negotiating those kinds of deals and figuring out what are we willing to give up for Donovan Mitchell he just means something different to a team like the Cavs. 100% agree. Yeah. It's not,

you have your superstars, like the Giannis types that you can be the best guy in a title team and can kind of elevate. Then you have that second class of guy who it's like, if this guy's on an awesome team and he can be your decider at the end of games, he could do it. Like if you're in round three, round four, and you have a really good team around him, would you trust him with the car keys? I think offensively, you kind of would with Mitchell. Now, there are guys that could outgun him, whatever,

but at least they're in the game now. And I don't, I love Garland. I just think Mitchell's slightly different as a scorer than Garland is. And I think Garland, weirdly, this is perfect for him because now he can be a little more of a distributor. He can,

he's going to get more open looks. I don't know. This is the feel good story. Like finally an NBA team made a smart, logical trade where they gave away enough assets. They noticeably made the team better. It was a really good gamble. And I think Utah would probably do it again

too, right? They got marketing out of it and Sexton, they got a bunch of picks. I mean, they would do the Gobert trade 100 times out of 100. But yeah, I think that was the proverbial great trade. All right, so we're in. So you have Cleveland second in the East. I have them either 2A or 2B. I haven't decided.

So should we at least go ahead and lock down hotel reservations for May in Cleveland? Is that in the East. I have them either 2A or 2B. I haven't decided. Should we at least go ahead and lock down hotel reservations for May in Cleveland? Are we premature? Round three? Maybe I'll just book the month. I'll just set up out there. I think one of the great things about Cleveland is you can probably move

maybe two weeks before the series and probably grab them. Be a little different. No, it's just, you know, unless there's like a convention or something. Let the city have this. They have a bunch of hotels there. Oh, now Cleveland's going to be mad at me. No, they have a bunch of hotels.

Milwaukee is the same way. It's not like you can't get into Milwaukee. I'm going to get in trouble. Kyle, are we going to have to cut this? Jesus. Mahoney, you got me in trouble. I did nothing. Look, I'm not a part of this. Kyle, are we going to have to cut this? Jesus. Mahoney, you got me in trouble. I did nothing. I'm not a part of this.

This is a love letter to Cleveland. Oh, my God. All right. Congrats, Cavs. Mahoney, you can listen to Rob on The Ringer NBA Show, and you can read him on TheRinger.com. Thanks for coming out. Thanks, Bill.

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See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. All right, Peter Schrager is here. We had a good million dollar picks week last week. We're going to talk about that in a second. Let's talk about far-fetched predictions for the 2022 season. We have 10 weeks left. I wrote down a couple. This is my favorite. Tom Brady will retire during the 2022 season. Before it ends, Tom Brady will announce his retirement. This is a

far-fetched prediction. What do you think? Okay. So they play the Rams this weekend and then next week they're going to Munich to play the Seattle Seahawks. I can't imagine a trip that Brady and those veteran Buccaneers want to make less than get on a plane, fly to Germany, and then suddenly be like the NFL ambassadors with a smiley face and be like, ta-da, the Buccaneers are here. I think it's going to be an exhausting trip for them involving not only team-oriented stuff, but NFL-oriented stuff. I'm going also for good morning football. And personally, I'm excited.

Like, it's all right. NFL in Germany, we're going to drink at the beer gardens, do all this. I think that trip's going to be a real test for this team because it's a lot of travel, a lot of team because it's a lot of travel, a lot of team together, and a lot of stress on Brady to like, we can't lose that game. We can't come back after this whole trip to Germany. I don't think it's crazy. I just think, Bill, as much as Brady has gone against the grain from his career this season, I can't see him not wanting to at least finish the job. To be a quitter, that's quitting. That's not retiring.

Mid-season, you quit, man. After the 2022 year that he's had, though, I feel like he's in the Brady zone. Nothing would surprise me. If they lost to the Rams this week, and they were 3-6, and he really looked at it and said, wow, I don't think this team has it.

We might not even make the playoffs. Let me get out of this now. I can skip the Germany trip. Get me in that Fox booth. Move over, Greg Olson. I'm here. I have some generic comments to make. I want to talk about how the quarterback looks good in the offense.

You got to establish the run game. Yeah. You need to score points. Got to play better defense second half if you're going to win. Maybe. I don't know. I think it's far-fetched, but I certainly wouldn't rule it out. If you made the odds 50 to 1, I would consider it.

I'm actually shocked. We both did million-dollar picks last week, and we said on the podcast, we both are picking the Ravens to go on the road a bit. We didn't put the bet in, but we both knew that the Ravens are winning that game. They did in convincing fashion. I came on Good Morning Football the next day and I'm like, I'd be shocked if there wasn't someone fired, a player cut, something like that. They are on pace to be the worst rushing team in the history of the NFL ever, ever. And they don't even try. They ran the ball for 40 yards last week. And to me, it's like, you get done with a loss like that, you had the long week, you come back, and then you got to look at like, all right, so here I am, Tom Brady.

I've obviously got a lot going on in my personal life. Can someone help pick up the slack for me? And I don't think Bowles is necessarily rallying the troops. I certainly don't think Byron Lefkowitz is drawing up some dynamic offensive game plan. And you look at guys like Lenny Frenette and all these veterans that have just been looking at Brady like, save us. I don't think this season's getting any better. I think the Bucs can lose this weekend. I think the Bucs

can lose in London and Munich. So to your point, it's not getting any better anytime soon. I don't see any silver lining to this season. I thought Leftwich was probably going to get fired after that Thursday night game. I was shocked he wasn't. And that didn't. There's a lot of,

don't blame Brady for all of this. Maybe you should look at the left-foot size buzz kind of emanating from certain circles. The first 15 plays of that game, they marched right down the field with wide receiver screens and they got Godwin involved. And again, you're listening to this now,

it's already a week old, that game. But at that point, it just suddenly stopped and they were done and it was almost like alright I prepared for the first page of the test there's three more pages it was a bad offensive game plan it's like the reverse Kingsbury

the Bucks are favored by two and a half against the Rams this week and the Rams are another disaster they're combined 4-11-1 against the spread two of the three worst1 against the spread. Two of the three worst records against the spread this year, which is always the number one sign for,

have you been disappointing? Just week after week, everyone's like, nah, this is the week they'll turn it around, then it's not happening. I don't believe in either of those teams. We'll talk about it in Million Dollar Picks. I actually like the Bucs, but I don't see how we could put our hard-earned fake money on it, how we could dive into that game at all. All right. Do you want to do a far-fetched

prediction or should I give you my second one? Far-fetched prediction from Peter Schrager from the perch. I'm going to say Tyreek Hill is going to shatter Calvin Johnson's single season receiving yard record. I think it's already on pace to have a huge season, but he's going to end up having 2000 plus. The record is Calvin Johnson with 1964 receiving yards. The way this offense has clicked, and I know you spoke about it with Shael and Solak last week, and maybe it's because it was against the Steelers and the Lions, but I think this offense is built for Tyreek to have these huge plays. And the way the NFL is right now with the rules

and with the ability to get open, I think Tyreek is a one-of-one unique unicorn in this league. And I think Tyreek Hill can go and have a 2,000-yard receiving season, especially if Tua is healthy and on the field. Together, he and Waddle right now are combining. Right now, as we go into week nine for 1,700 yards, it's the highest by a duo ever in the NFL since the Super Bowl began. So I think Tyreek,

and it's the biggest surprise. Why is that far-fetched? Because if you had told me in August that Tyreek was going to get better with the Miami Dolphins, I mean, it was one thing to say he's going to be okay with Tua and he's going to help Tua get better, but to say that he's going to have the best season of his career in the first year with a first-year head coach and in an offense he's never played in, I would say that's shocking. So I think Tyreek's going to go on to have over 2,000 yards receiving. And I'm saying that week nine where he's already got 961. I had the same prediction. Really? Yeah.

He's at 961 right now. He's at 961 right now. And that includes the one game when Bridgewater started and he got hurt. There was basically two and a half, two games where Tua was out. He's got four 150 plus yard games and eight left.

It's not inconceivable. He'd have to go basically 120 a game. The cold weather thing would be the cold weather and Tua getting hurt, I think, were the two. I was surprised that nobody had done 2,000 yet. Now we have the extra game too. So Megatron did it in 16 games. So do you not- We'll get the 17th game.

Where do you stand on that as far as all this stuff? Undefeated seasons and baseball records. Do you hold them to the 1964 and 16 games? Or do you say it's okay to go for more in 17 games? As a purist as you are. So we did this with jamal lewis right once upon a time so we we did this with jamal lewis and oh three i mean i mean our our the media um because oj had 2003 and 14 games yep and then jamal lewis broke it in 16 games

and this was like kind of before the whole afternoon morning show, internet infrastructure of people just finding dumb shit to argue about for 15 minutes. So Jamal Lewis got the record. And I was always like, eh, OJ, 14 games, 2,003 yards. You got to hand it to him. Just because he murdered two people, I don't think you can take away the 14, 2003. So I would say if Tyreek does it in 17 games, yeah, he broke the barrier,

but he kind of has to break the Megatron record in 16 games, right? All right. So maybe that should be the far fetched. He will break 2,016 games. How about that? Let's bring in a special guest, OJ Simpson. Come on in, OJ. Let's talk about that. All right. I have one basically tied to that one, year-long things. No QB will throw for 5,000 yards this year. And I don't even think it's that far-fetched. Who's leading right now? Yeah. Everyone's like in the 2200

range. It's really weird. Mahomes is at 2159 and he's only played seven games. So if it does happen this year, it will be Mahomes. But I was surprised because usually, I mean, what was that one year when Winston had like 5,300 yards and there's always like one outlier who just has a crazy season. And I don't see that happening this year. So this year it's Joe Burrow is 23, 29. Okay. He's the highest he's played eight games. So he would have to go and that's without chase. So you can cross him off. Brady is second, which surprised me. And then it kind of dips down. Herbert's only played seven games. He's at 2000. He's missing, looks like both receivers this week. So I don't think, unless it's Mahomes, I don't think it happens. And I don't think that's the kind of team they

want. Do you? No, Herbert's the guy that I would say, because that's the way he's built. But you're right. If they're down two guys and he hasn't gotten it going yet, why would it suddenly click this late in the season? But before the season, I thought Herbert would be the guy to lead the league in all these passing categories. And don't laugh, Tua, who knows? He might be the guy who ends up leading the league in passing yards. What does he have now? I don't know.

What do you got? Do you got the sheet up there? I have... He's missed two and a half games. 1678. So we'd have to... No, that's not happening. Not 5,000, but can he lead the league in passing yards?

He's like 700 back. Yeah, that's a lot. I don't think so. I wish there was a way to bet on this. FanDuel has some specials. Well, this will lead to... I'll throw in one more. The Eagles will go undefeated.

What? Really? 12 to 1 odds on Fandle. Make the case. I don't know, man. Make the case. I love it. I looked at their schedule

and it's... Once you get to like 11-0, 12-0, it's... But aren't there those lessons of like these teams and then you have the game

where you lose. Are they that special where it's where they're going to be the one mentally tough team in the history of the sport to do it since the Patriots? into the AJ Brown thing in a real way, right? And then once it gets colder, I think that's great for them. When the weather kind of turns, they feel to me more of a cold weather team than a September, October team. And there was a thing today I saw on one of the websites where they were arguing, is it a good, should Philly want to go 17-0? And I was like, oh, this is getting real. Yeah. That's the barometer of like, okay, when it's made to talk radio and we're actually talking about it, then yes, that's a legit possibility.

You're right. The NFC, and I think they almost like, you get that home playoff game and that bye in the NFC this year, I think it's huge because I don't know if the NFC is the worst conference we've ever seen in the NFL, but it might be in the conversation as far as all these letdown teams.

And then it's one thing if you're asking Jalen Hurts to go in to Santa Clara and beat that Niners defense. It's another thing to ask him to go into Lambeau. We don't know if he can do that, but I'm just watching these Phillies games. I've watched enough Eagles home playoff games. That's another piece of it. You get in that building. I remember Minnesota was coming in that building on a, you know,

I remember Minnesota was coming in after the Minneapolis miracle, like a house on fire in Case Keenum, and they just had no shot because the 78 Steelers weren't beating the Philly fans that day. And it's a locomotive. So all they need to do is win a divisional round game,

an NFC championship game, and then they're in the Super Bowl in a terrible NFC. Like, I know it's not flashy, but Eagles could go undefeated and be in the Super Bowl in a terrible NFC. I know it's not flashy, but Eagles could go undefeated and be in the Super Bowl if you want to go two steps further. They have Houston tonight. They have Washington

next week at Indy, November 20th. Now we're on Thanksgiving night, home for Green Bay. They could at least get into December up 11-0. Then they have Tennessee at the Giants, at the Bears, at Dallas, three in a row. Home New Orleans, home New York Giants.

So you would think if this was going to really stumble, if we're betting on a stumble, it's somewhere in that 14, 15, 16 range. If I gave you over-under for their first loss, what week would you pick? Is that Thanksgiving night you said? I would give that Rodgers game. What week would you pick? Is that Thanksgiving night you said? I would give that Rodgers game. All right, so let's do over-unders. Okay. So I'll give you over-under 12 and a half weeks.

So week 12 is Green Bay. Week 13 is Tennessee. Over-under 12 and a half weeks for them to lose their first game. I'll take the under. I think it's too hard. I think one of these teams is going to clip them off. And I like this Eagles team. I just think they could

still go 13-4 and be the number one seed. And I don't see them going the whole way. And I hate being a hater on it. It's nothing against them. It's just I've seen this so many times. I mean, I remember you obviously had the Patriots and that didn't work out. But then two years later, the Colts are

14-0 and the Jets come in and it's all, are you going to start Peyton Manning? You're not going to start Peyton Manning. They start Peyton Manning. Jets come out early. They take Peyton Manning out. We've seen the Chiefs have a 10-0 team. We've seen the Titans have a 10-0 team with Kerry Collins. The Giants were hot until

Plaxico Burris does what he does in the club and they end up losing that game to the Eagles. The season's too long, I think, for a team that's never gone wire to wire or had those playoff wins to just do it out of nowhere. I don't know. It just seems like it's unlikely to me. When you say does what he does in a club, you mean when he shot himself? Was that a nice way of saying that? That's the best thing. I work for the NFL Network,

so a lot of times when there's things off the field, just to not... You just go in super ambiguous? Just super ambiguous. When he had his off-the-field issues and it's some horrific story. Let's do take two of a far-fetched Eagles prediction. Okay.

Let's test drive this one and then we can decide which one we like more. The Eagles will not win the nfc east i think they will win that's got a little more juice in it right it's got juice that sounds like a morning uh good morning football topic that i might just steal right from you tomorrow um dallas four to one on fanduel to win the nfc east okay so they already have the one game which is back they've already got the one game though and, they have a game back. They've already got the one game, though, and they've got the Commanders twice, right?

The Eagles still do. Eagles, they have the Giants twice, too, right? Dallas has a bye week at Green Bay at Minnesota. Home Giants. Then it gets super easy. Indy, Houston, at Jacksonville, week 16, Philly, at Tennessee, at Washington. That Tennessee game might mean nothing in Tennessee. They might already have won the AFC South. I was looking at it today. Dallas is six and two. So they're two back.

But if they can win that Philly game, then they'd be one back. And then it's like, how could that swing a little bit? I think it's more realistic. And the odds would agree with this, that Dallas wins the NFC East than it is for Philly to go undefeated. Good debate. I, I,

I think the Dallas could very easily do this if Philly stumbles in one of these games. And then it's a, it's a dead heap. But the one time they've played Lane Johnson goes down with are with an injury and micah started eating and the eagles answered you know 75 yard drive and jalen hurts i think that was a huge win for them because the cowboys have absolutely owned the eagles in recent years and for me like i don't know we beat you once we're not scared of you i i don't know i think the eagles are a better football team

what do you got for... Do you have another far-fetched? Another far-fetched might be just Pollyanna or whatever. I don't think Buffalo loses another game. So I think they go 16-1. Oh! 16-1! I think Buffalo finishes out this thing. And you can go through the schedule. I just think that I know

when you get that feeling of a special team and they're the local moment. They got local hard games left they have at new england and home miami unless you want to say at cincinnati i guess they'll be in all these teams let's go through the schedule if you want to rattle them off i don't see a loss at jets home minnesota home cleveland at detroit at new england home jets home dolphins at chicago at cincinnati home new england i got I got them finishing it out. And I know that history is against them that you lose these games. And of course, Belichick's probably got something in store for when they go to New

England. I'm watching them, dude. And it's like, last Sunday was an 8.30 start. And it was their first Sunday night game since 07, where there's actually fans in that building. It's their second home game. And it's like, they were a locomotive. They got stopped that first drive. And then on third and 14, Allen pulls a rabbit out of his hat. And then it's just, he didn't play particularly well.

The offense didn't play great in the second half. He fooled around through two picks and they still won by 10. They just have that feeling. You know, the special teams, whether it was the Warriors a couple of years back when they won 73, or it's these guys. You just get that feeling. You know the special teams, whether it was the Warriors a couple years back when they won 73, or it's these guys.

You just get the feeling that, oh, this is a special team. Now in the playoffs, I still might pick the Chiefs with Mahomes over them. But in the regular season, I just have that feeling. This is like Von Miller was the finishing piece and this team is away we go.

And I don't think anyone's knocking them off in the regular season. It'd be crazy if they went 16-1 and the one game they lost was that dumb Miami game. They blew 17 different ways. My next one. I think Seattle gets Geno as Comeback Player of the Year

and Kenneth Walker as Rookie of the Year, which is a 5-1 bet on FanDuel. You could bet it right now. I think it's a Seattle combo. And you could also talk me into Pete Carroll. I was going to say that's a triple crown. The Seattle trifecta. But I think we get those two. I like that. I don't see a quarterback doing anything for offensive rookie of the year. And last year we had Jamar Chase have this crazy season. There's good wide receivers and, you know, Olave's had some good games. And of course, we've got the kid Pearson in Houston.

But for me, this is all Kenneth Walker and their team is, I mean, they are legit. And if Pete can get these guys and Gino... Shit, Bill, I'll go one step further. If the Seahawks go like 13-4 or the Seahawks go 11-11 in a weird year, I mean, short of Josh Allen breaking... He's going to be in the conversation. He's in the mix. To me right now, it's Mahomes of Josh Allen, he's going to be in the conversation.

He's in the mix. To me right now, it's Mahomes, Josh Allen, Jalen Hurts. Those are your MVPs. And Geno's knocking on the door. He is not the favorite for comeback part of the year, at least on FanDuel. Who is? Saquon? Barkley was the favorite.

And it's like, okay, Barkley, yeah, he came back from... Major injury. Knee injury two years ago. Gino came back from nothing? Like he was just completely buried for nine years of his career? He never had a moment ever? Like how is anybody more of a comeback player of the year than him? I always have a problem with that definition.

I think, you know, Tannehill won it a few years back. And that's like one of the rare ones where it's just the guy comes from out of nowhere and it's like a bounce back. And usually they just give it to the guy who has the best season after getting injured. You know, that's like one of the rare ones where it's just the guy comes from out of nowhere and it's like I bounce back and usually they just give it to the guy who has the best season after getting injured. You know,

that's what it is. So to call it that. Yeah. How is Gino not come back part of the year? It's an amazing comeback. Preseason, it's like,

is it going to be him or Drew Locke? And now he's an MVP candidate. What fits the definition better? For coach of the year, it will depend on the Eagles record, but the road has to... If like Sirianni goes 16-1 or McDermott goes 16-1,

I don't know how they don't... They're not at the front of the line for a coach of the year vote. Unless Carroll got to like 12-13. Yeah, like we love... I'm not a voter for that one, but everyone loves a narrative. And last year, Vrabel's narrative, he was coach of the year, was like,

oh my God, they had 90 players on IR and no one expected them to do this. They did it without Derrick Henry. And usually they give it to a first year coach who takes a bad team to the playoffs. So keep Dable in mind if Dable does something. Keep Kevin O'Connell in mind if he does something. He's losing this week. You could talk to me into Vrabel a second time. That'd be something, right?

Explain to me how that team is 5-2. My God. They won a game last week where they basically pulled somebody out of the stands and had them quarterback. Do you have one more far-fetched

before we go do million-dollar picks? It's not far-fetched. It's more a prediction and it's a negative one. I'm going to be watching the Cliff and Kyler thing. I don't think this thing, there's any like roses and sunshines the way this thing goes over the next few weeks.

And not that Cliff's going to get fired during the season. I just think that one blow up, the constant losing, the huge contract was already given, so the carrot has already been handed. You haven't predicted anything? I haven't predicted anything. I think that it ends ugly. You think Cliff will not be the coach at the end of the year?

No, I think he finishes the year, but I think that there's some sort of change. If it's not Cliff, it's someone on their staff. I just think the Cardinals are a team to watch. That's not a prediction. You're still never predicting anything. I'm soft. I don't know. I don't like predicting someone's not going to have a job.

Is there a captioning for this? No, but are you predicting he's not going to make it to the end of the season because he doesn't want to be there? No, my prediction is that it can get worse from here. All right, that's not bad. We're not at the Nadir yet. Well, I mean, that's a pretty far fetch

because right now the Nadir was the QB coming off the sideline and screaming at the coach on national TV. If I told you two weeks ago that when the Nets were losing by 30 to someone that it can get even worse, you'd probably say, that's a bold prediction. I would have been right. This is a Kyrie free podcast. We're not discussing him today. I have one for you. I'm kidding, by the way,

but I really am trying to. Kyrie, I just... Bro, I don't want to talk about it either. No, he's out. He deserves the time on our podcast. No, he's out. This one's not going to make you happy, and then we'll go to break.

Detroit will have two top five picks in the 2023 draft. Their own. Okay. And the Rams of Los Angeles. Wow, that bad. You think it's that bad? That's a good far fetch, right?

I like that. That's the kind of thing that's far, not, oh, the coach might have some more struggles with the perturbed quarterback. No, yours is far fetched. So the Rams right now are three and four. Okay. If they lose to Tampa, then is far-fetched. So the Rams right now are 3-4. Okay. If they lose to Tampa, then it goes home Arizona,

at New Orleans, at KC, home Seattle, home Vegas, at Green Bay, home Denver, at Chargers, at Seattle. There's not a lot of gimme's in there. No. And I'm wondering, like, could the fifth pick in the draft be somebody that goes 5-12? Yeah, probably. Because if you look at who's actually

bad, Houston's bad. Houston's 1-5-1. Detroit is very bad. Detroit has the worst defense in the league, and it's kind of not close. By any metric, they're the worst. After that, it's the who's bad teams. I don't know.

Are the Bears bad? They've had signs of life the last couple weeks. You could tell me the Cardinals are bad. You could tell me Carolina's 2-6. They could be 4-4 with two plays. You're going down the line. Is Vegas bad? I'm not ready to call them bad yet.

Pittsburgh might be bad. Pittsburgh might be the other one. They're two and six. So anyway, I think five and 12, six and 11 might be the fifth pick. So Detroit might have two top picks. And they'll probably clean house, right? Everybody will go and they'll start over.

They won't play Jamison Williams this year. They'll be careful with that. If you mean player, I don't think if golf, if they win three games, golf is brought back. No. But I don't know if they'd get rid of Dan Campbell and start again new with all this new blood that they've already done. They already fired Aubrey Pleasant, who's a well-respected defensive

backs coach. They fired him this week very quietly. And it's like, you're blaming the DBs coach for this? Okay, that's fine. The Rams thing, I spoke to McVay obviously, and his grandfather passed away this week, John McVay, who was with the Niners and Giants. So he's going through McVay, obviously, and like, he's got his, his grandfather passed away this week, John McVay, who was the Niners and Giants.

So he's going through that, but we talked on that before that happened. And he was just like, oddly, I don't know what to say. Like after the Niners loss, he's like, I actually think it's a good opportunity for this group to like,

have to figure shit out. You know, like here we are now we're not the lead dogs and now we're not. Okay. So you're a bunch of veteran players making a ton of money like what are we gonna do about it are we just gonna sit and lay down the rest of season and he's like between cup and stafford and donald and ramsey like should have enough talent to win these games and i feel confident that we can do it he's like so let's see what we're all about i kind of like that angle as opposed to just we're all injured

we can't run the ball like it was this cool deal where he sort of was like alright now no one believes in us and we actually suck are we this bad? So I'm curious to see what we get from them in Tampa

this week. If I was a beat reporter for them I would like in the post practice thing I'd be like to Matthew Stafford Matthew

how does it feel to be on the 2016 Lions again? Just like the sarcastic lines questions. Let's take a break. We got some million dollar picks to discuss. This episode is brought to you by Movember.

The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too. You won't win the Super Bowl, but your fundraising will support mental health, suicide prevention, and prostate and testicular cancer research. And if you don't want to grow a mustache, you could still walk or run 60 kilometers, host an event, or set your own goal

and mow your own way. Do great things this November. Sign up now. Just search Movember. Alrighty, million dollar picks. We did well last week. We won $850,000. We put a little dent in our deficit. So now we are at a manageable 1.57 million down for the year.

I feel like we can keep getting this back. We keep clawing back. Keep having the bad luck with just the game or the one play where it's like, man, if that didn't happen, oh. Do you know the deep dive I went on with Carolina? Last week it was DJ Moore. Do you know how many former refs I spoke to this week? The amount of different explanations, and you said it on the pod with Sal. If it happened to the Cowboys, if it happened to the Chiefs, if it happened on Sunday night, it would be a talking point all the way.

DJ Moore, the rule is as states. If you remove your helmet in the end zone or the field of play, it is a flag. I have watched this thing like the Zapruder film. He removes it

out of the end zone. But then he runs back into the end zone. But that's okay. The rule says where you remove it. Then Perry Fuel, who represents the referees and works for the league, came on Monday night and he was like, well, there might've been other guys who removed it when they were coming. Well, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You called it on DJ Moore. I'm still not sure there's an answer. And then I'm watching Colts versus Washington and I love Terry McLaurin. He makes this crazy play

and he tears his helmet off and there's no flag. So I don't McLaurin. He makes this crazy play and he tears his helmet off and there's no flag. So I don't know. It's one of those deals where if it's a playoff game, we're talking about this, did Dez catch it? But it wasn't. And everyone else will point to the fact that they missed it. And why is it 15 yards? 15 yards, that's the maximum prison sentence basically for NFL conduct, where it's, the worst thing you can do in the field is 15 yards. That's the worst thing? You take your helmet off because you got excited because you caught a 70-yard pass in the air? I'm still in on this Panthers team.

I cannot quit them. Triple down! Look, I've watched a lot of Panthers this year. I think P.J PJ Walker is like decent and he had one terrible throw in that Falcons game and it basically

it swung the game it made them hard to get back but he put them ahead with three and a half minutes left and then for whatever reason the Falcons

just came right down and scored almost immediately which set up that DJ Moore thing their defense made a play in OT they did they should have been there just came right down and scored almost immediately, which set up that DJ Moore thing. Their defense made a play in OT. They did.

They should have been there. This was going to be one of my far-fetched predictions is I still like the Panthers and the NFC South. They're like 35 to 1. That's more than far-fetched. That's like so far away from being far-fetched. It's like, it's beyond fetched. But they're playing the Bengals this week. The line's at seven and a half. It's like, it's, it's beyond fetch, but they're playing the Bengals this week. The line's at seven and a half.

It's in Cincinnati. And I think they can win the game outright. I love taking the seven and a half. I also think they can actually win the game. And I think we should consider them for underdog parlay too. The Bengals team without chase with an offensive line. That's pretty shaky. They've just, they've had no running game the whole year.

You look at the DVOA for them, for the Carolinas defensive DVOA, 27th against the pass, 7th against the run. It's actually good against the run. I'm not sure the Bengals will be able to run the ball on them. And then offensively, Carolinas 12th with the run and 32nd with the pass offensive DVOA.

But the last two weeks, they were 12th. the run and 32nd with the pass offensive DVO, but the last two weeks they were 12th. And our guy Marshall, he's getting a little frisky. DJ Moore, who's yet another quarterback, he's still making it happen. I really like Foreman.

I think every time he's actually got minutes, runs hard. And I think they can win this game. I'm scared for the Bengals. I have a lot of future money on them, but I don't. I think this Chase thing killed them. The way their whole team is constructed. Once he goes now, Higgins moves up, but he's not really a number one.

And it's just the balance of them is off. I don't think that Browns game was a fluke. I don't think it was either. And I'll go one step further and it's not going to make national news. And you mentioned it on your Tuesday pod, but I did a poll of a bunch of GMs and coaches at the halfway point earlier this week. And I started doing it last week. I'm like, give me your all pros. And I was shocked because Sauce Gardner was getting love for all pro. But the other corner that was getting the most love was Chidobe Awuzie, Cincinnati's corner. I'm like, really? I guess I watched the games. They're like, no, no, no. This dude has been locked down, has been really good.

And then he's out for the year now too. So you lose Jamar Chase, who fortunately enough, Jamar Chase, it's a hip, but it's not a surgery thing. He's not on the IOR. He might be back two, three, four weeks as opposed to the whole season. But I think you lose your top corner, your top wide receiver, and you have these issues on the offensive line. I don't think it's a sure thing that they beat the Panthers by any means.

Well, DJ Reader's out. Also a good player inside. Disaster. Hendrickson has been banged up and it feels like every other Bengals game. And then the other thing, McPherson. What the fuck happened to him? He's been off. I was comparing him. A lot of people were like, oh, Tucker finally has a challenger.

And it's funny, Tucker, he's like Ric Flair in the 80s or Hulk Hogan. There's always someone else coming. Yeah, it's like, oh, this will be the good one. And then all of a sudden, Ric Flair has the title for nine more months. Tucker's had some challengers, and they keep kind of bouncing off him, and he keeps going. Yeah. And nobody's taking the title yet.

He's had the championship belt for like seven years. Totally. But you have McPherson, who I think was the biggest reason they made the Super Bowl last year. He had one of the lights out kicker stretches for a month. I didn't like the doubt in his eyes on Monday night. He missed a PAT. He missed a fairly easy field goal, but he's not lights out. They just don't feel like the same team to me. Not to get all, I don't want to get morbid here. I don't want to get morbid. I'm going to be completely candid. I think they found out the news that one of their coaches passed away earlier. I'm trying to give them a clear look here. Earlier

on the day before Monday, then they go out and they play. And obviously they get the doors blown off them and all that stuff. The question is, can they rebound as a football team? Because obviously that's a horrific thing to happen. And then you add that with, okay, we didn't look good. Now, remember two weeks ago, you and I coming off the Atlanta win, I know we thought Chase was healthy. We were like, this is the Bengals we believe. I don't want to waver week to week. Yeah, but now they've lost their best offensive player other than Burrow and their best defensive player. And probably maybe their best too. You could argue Reeder. Reeder was really good.

It's probably their second. But if those are the best five guys in the team, they have two of them though. I don't like it. The thing for me is what do the Bengals do well? If you were like, all right, well, at least they're good at this. You could always say when Chase was out there,

well, they can score points in bunches. Like Chase can get hot for a quarter and get, I don't see it anymore. I really like the Panthers. The other one, by the way, I think that Panthers line, it's seven and a half. I think it should be like three and a half. You're just getting four extra points. So I want to bet it straight up and I want to put them in underdog.

The other one is Seattle, Arizona. Arizona has been getting the benefit of the doubt from Vegas all year. What is that? And Seattle on the flip side is just being treated skeptically. Seattle's sixth in DVOA. They're fifth in offense, seventh in defense. Arizona's 30th. Seattle last three weeks, defensive DVOA, they're first in the entire league.

And Arizona has not shown that they have the capability to win a close game against a well-coached team that just hangs around and lets Arizona shoot themselves in the foot. Like, which is, Minnesota's not even that well-coached. But last week, Arizona, the whole fourth quarter could have stolen that Arizona game. They just can't stay out of their own way. And I think Seattle's actually good. I think their defense, I don't know where a lot of these guys came from, but they seem fast and hungry to me.

Walker has been elite. Gino's good. They got two receivers. I like their team. Why wouldn't we bet? We've been riding them the last few weeks and it's been working. They're fun to watch.

We picked them against the Chargers. We picked them against the Giants. We picked them against the Cardinals the last time weeks and it's been working. They're fun to watch. We picked them against the Chargers. We picked them against the Giants. We picked them against the Cardinals the last time they played. Yeah. I think they're fun to root for.

Was it the Cardinals? Maybe it was the Rams. I don't remember who they played, but we had them over in the season too. No, we've ridden them a couple times.

I guess my question is, it's in Arizona. I don't even think that really matters. Yeah, but Arizona beat New Orleans because of two pick sixes. It was a Thursday night.

They'd lost eight straight home games before then. And I think the 12s travel. I don't know. I'm shocked this is even... I don't want to be so over the top, but I'm surprised that Arizona's favored. So that was going to be my other point. I think this line should be like Seattle

by minus two and a half. Yeah. In Arizona. I think they've should be like Seattle by minus two and a half in Arizona. I think they've proven that they're a better team. Sure. This isn't to say Arizona couldn't do the thing where they always pull. There's a couple other bets with this. We always talk on Million Dollar Picks about how

bad Arizona is in the first half. They're one and seven in the first half this year. And going back to last year, I think it's like two and 14 in their last 16 first halves. The Seahawks are plus 0.5 in the first half in this game. Let's do it. There's also a FanDuel bet, which we did last week, which we hit on with Minnesota. We can bet on Seattle to win both halves. Basically, they win first half, then they win the game. That's plus 190.

Let's do it. So that's sitting there too. We can discuss at the end. All right, so we're crossing. We're putting those in. Packers-Lions. I'm just going to present this case to you. Okay.

First of all, Detroit's defense bordering on the historic for how bad the defense is. They're 32nd with a bullet in DVOA. 32nd with a bullet. With a bullet. And it seems like it's getting worse, not better. Rodgers 18-6 against Detroit. The big things for me, Green Bay, four-game losing streak.

They're going to lose five straight games. We talked out with Solak and Scheel on Tuesday about, was there enough in that Sunday night game against the Bills, even though they lost? Did they find anything in that game? I kind of feel like they did. They ran the ball. And even Rodgers on McAfee a couple days ago was saying,

basically, things, things are starting around in the shape, which is a little alarming because it's week eight, but still I felt like something was going on there. And then most important, if we combine them with Washington, we could do a, this is the week the Packers are back in the NFC North parlay,

which is plus two 66, Washington beating the Vikings. And then the Packers are back in the NFC North parlay, which is plus 266. Washington beating the Vikings. And then the Packers beating the Lions. And suddenly they'd be two back. They still get to play the Vikings another time. The Vikings have another tough game next week. And all of a sudden, the Vikes smooth sailing six and one. They're playing Washington.

Washington's plus three and a half. Minnesota's had two real road games in the first eight weeks they've snuck out some games that they were just basically like here take it and the other team's like what no no take it the other team's like what they have this Greg Joseph

situation 64% field goals he's missed three PATs already they're going to lose one of these games one of these weeks where he's going to miss field goal. Cousins will throw a pick. Something funky will happen. And I'm just wondering, is this the week? Yeah. Heineke. I mean, have you guys done a Heineke bit? No, do it. I mean, he's been, him and PJ Walker have been, I think, decent. It's delightful watching Heineke. It's like every time he drops back, your heart drops. You're like, I have no idea what's going to happen. And then somehow he pulls it out and those players respond

to him. The McLaurin thing was awesome too, to see him get that big game. Obviously he was going home to Indianapolis. You saw all the coverage this week. He played at Cathedral High School and was Mr. Indiana, then has this thing and has six of his best friends there in the locker room afterwards. There's this vibe. And I look at Washington and it's like this franchise might be going up in flames on the outside, if that makes any sense. You've got the pending Bank of America's hired to look into a sale. You've got all these

allegations. You've got these investigations and you've got other owners saying that they should... You know all the players, it's like Heineke's this undrafted kid from Old Dominion at quarterback or you've got McLaurin, a third roundround pick, doing what he does. They're just playing football, and I think there's a kind of cool

storyline with that. I could see Washington beating Minnesota in this game, although there's no home field advantage. That place is like a mausoleum playing in there, so I don't know. There might be fans from neither team at that game. If you asked 100 people who follow football what Washington's record is,

how many people would say 4-4? No, they'd all assume it's 2-6. I would have said 3-5. Yeah, 4-4. They're 4-4. Won a bunch of games in a row. Yeah. They almost beat Tennessee.

They had them. Really could have, which just seems more impressive now. Threw a pick at the end. That was Wentz. They beat the Bears 12-7 and got super lucky at the end. They beat the Packers by two, legitimate. Beat the Colts last week. Was also pretty lucky, right? They're down

16-10. Reich kind of, Reich took field goals over touchdowns, which I actually agreed with because he had Sam Ellinger as his quarterback. This would be their best win because the thing with Minnesota, even though they're 6-1, the advanced stuff isn't crazy for them.

They're 17th in DVOA. Their explosive plays, I think they're second to last. It is one of those teams that they kind of they don't knock your socks off at any point but they're just kind of they have the lead but I do worry like that one time they had to play from behind against the Eagles remember the game was like over

once you actually knew what they were doing the Hawkinson price they paid to me was like they clearly think they're pretty good but that was a pretty steep price for The Hawkinson price they paid to me was like, they clearly think they're pretty good, but that was a pretty steep price for TJ Hawkinson, I thought. A second and a third? It's a lot. Anyway, I think Washington can win that game. Last one I think is a stay away, but I just wanted to flag it. Chargers at the Falcons. Chargers are favored by three. We talk about these teams that are treated with respect

that they might not deserve. Chargers, it looks like Keenan Allen's either not playing or he's going to be hurt. Mike Williams not playing. Offensive line still, you know,

is where it is. They've had some injuries. JC Jackson out for the year. Just not sure what I'm getting with this trade. And then on top of it, they've been bad at stopping the run all year. And you have the Falcons.

That's all they want to do is run the ball. And the Falcons have been a really coached, well-coached team that has pulled some wins out of their asses. And the charges have been a poorly coached team that pulls wins out of their asses and hands under the other team. And I'm just wondering why this line is Chargers by three. You could have given me Chargers by one, I would have said fine, but three, why? I know. It's actually really... And their field goal kicker is not 100% healthy either. He's got the red flag next to him every week. And the game's in Atlanta

where the Falcons have been good. They beat the Niners. They beat the Panthers. I don't know that one. I don't get it either. I guess they're just looking at Herbert versus Mariota and they're like, battle of these two Oregon quarterbacks and Herbert's better. I don't know. Chargers are 4-3, but do you feel like they're coming across the country? I don't know. It's off the bye week.

I'd stay away. Falcons, I don't know if they can get in a shootout with these guys by any means, but to your point, if they just do their outside run game and it's Algier and Huntley and Mariota running all over the Chargers, I wouldn't be shocked. But we have the beauty of being able to... First of all, I looked at this schedule. There are six teams on buys.

There's, in all these games, only one game is winning teams and one of them's got Malik Willis in it. Terrible slate of games. And we have the option of not betting on all of them. So we could just pass on this one. Chargers versus Falcons. I think it's fair to stay away. Atlanta's 31st in DVOA. So all the advanced numbers hate Atlanta.

They're just like, what's going on here? Why is this team good? But they win. They win and they... I don't know. It felt like they stumbled into some pit stuff last week. They were figuring that out at least a little bit. Demir Bird makes a big play.

Demir Bird's got some speed. Was he a Patriot? He was at the Patriots, right? Yeah, he was. We actually liked him. The thing with the Falcons, basically they're doing what I think all bad teams should do. They run the ball and then they throw deep.

Yeah. And that's it. And they throw the ball deep and they either, they hope they make a play or they get a PI or whatever. But if you're the other team, you're just, do we move everything up to stop the run? Or, uh-oh, they're going to throw deep again. Kind of like the recipe.

All right. So you think that's a stay away? I think it's a stay away. I also don't love the Washington one. I don't know if I can go there either. The first one I liked. Well, we need somebody for underdog parlay. We got Washington plus 155. We got Panthers plus 270. We got Falcons plus 145.

Other than that, it's pretty slim pickings. The Bears will be the only other one. They're plus 172 at home against the Dolphins. I don't like it. Don't like that one either. Jets plus 430? No, no, no, no. Against Buffalo? No.

I hate to say this, but the Colts line is too high against the Patriots. Colts are plus 190. If they just look at all the game tape of scrambling quarterbacks against the Pats, it's their success. I'll just say that. But they seem pretty ravaged by injuries and other stuff. So I think that's a stay away too.

The only other one would be the Rams plus 124 if you're feeling a Rams comeback week against the Bucs. I think the Rams could beat the Bucs. Make the case. Tampa's horrendous. And their defense last week, they were just getting pushed around.

You watch this clip of Devin White, who you and I are ready to put in the Hall of Fame after the Super Bowl season, and Tyler Linderbaum is lifting him off his feet and dragging him 10 yards. That is a team that is sucked out of life way worse than the Rams are right now. The Rams at least have this feeling of

all right, we can still compete and do our thing. I know it hasn't worked out yet. The Buccaneers are looking at each other like, what the hell? They all fell off the cliff at the same time. I don't see any reinforcements coming. We're staying away from that, Kim.

That was not a passionate day. No, it's two corpses. It's like a boxing match with two dead people. Saints plus 118 against the Ravens. You put that on TV. I would actually watch it. Saints plus 118 at home against Baltimore would be the only other possible underdog.

Unless we wanted to get incredibly frisky with the Titans plus 4-8 against the Chiefs. And I do not. I don't either. Okay. All right. Million dollar picks.

Week 9. We have climbed back. The good news is we've won the last three weeks. The bad news is we're down 1.57 million dollars.

But that we've been down before. We rallied last year. We were down. We rallied back. Finished positive for the year. There's not a lot of games this week, Peter Schrager.

Six teams are off. We couldn't even, when Sal and I did Guest Alliance on Sunday, couldn't even come up with a marquee game, but that's not going to stop us from falling in love with two teams this week. First one, Carolina Panthers. We can't quit the Panthers.

Plus seven and a half at Cincy. Panthers should have won last week. We covered it earlier in the pod. Absolutely should have won. It should not have been a flag. He was not in the end zone. He was not on the field. I can go on and on.

We should have had that game. That was C.D. Lamb. All sports would have stopped until Dallas got to protest that. Cincy is ravaged. Chase is out. Their best cornerback's out. Chidobe Awuzie, that guy was having an all-pro season, out. Their run stopper's out.

Evan McPherson, he flew too close to the sun. People are comparing him to Justin Tucker. He's unraveling. Zach Taylor, not sure about that dude. And then you have the Panthers. Oh, they're dead. They're two and six. Season's over.

Have you seen the NFC South? Season not over. Nope. They got Tampa and Atlanta and New Orleans in front of them. All who might lose this week. We're going to take the Panthers plus seven and a half and we're going to bet $500,000. Let's go. Let's go.

Let's go. Second team has been really nice to us. Second team is like, for Christmas, I might want to go on Gold Belly and send them some steaks or something. Like, hey, Seahawks, thank you. We order just the opposite. We get the fish from the Pike's Fish Market delivered to us. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

There you go. Oh, we should do that. Yeah, let's treat us. The Seahawks have treated us somewhat. We'll treat ourselves. Seahawks are in Arizona. Arizona has been... A soap opera would be the kind word to say it.

We don't like that team at all. Their one good win the last couple weeks was on a Thursday night against the Saints. Thursday night games, we've learned. Just throw those out. Don't try to learn was on a Thursday night against the Saints. Thursday night games we've learned. Just throw those out. Don't try to learn no lessons from Thursday night game. Seattle sixth in DVOA. Arizona 30th.

Seattle's defense first in DVOA the last three weeks. Good defense. We think Geno Smith is an MVP candidate. We think Kenneth Walker is a Rookie of the Year candidate. We think Pete Carroll is a Coach of the Year candidate. Unbelievable reconstruction. The Russell Wilson thing's going sideways. The only thing that worries me about this game

is Seattle looks a little too easy. On the other side, why aren't they favored? It's weird. Why don't people believe in the Seahawks team? They're on the road, but the Cardinals aren't great at home. Yeah, they're fine. We're betting $500,000 in Seattle plus two.

And then for the underdog parlay, we're just going to double down. Let's go. We're going to do Seattle and the Panthers, money line parlay for 50K plus 666. The sign of the beast. Is that good or bad for us? I don't love it, but okay. Wait, should we throw in another team? I think so.

I don't like 666. I don't like digging with that. No, we got to change that. We got to put something else in, dude. Throw in anything. Want to do Buffalo minus 590? Yes. No, you know what we'll do?

Here's what we'll do. I don't want the Sign of the Beast either. I'm glad we're litigating this on the podcast. Instead of Seattle plus 110, we're going to do Seattle plus two for the underdog parlay. Seattle plus two with Panthers plus 265 to win. And that is plus 596.

And we avoid Beezlebub and a haunted house movie and the whole thing. And that's what we're going to do for the million dollar picks. How does that sound? It sounds great. I did not want 666. I didn't like the feel of that. It's a bad sign. But you know what?

We're veterans here on million dollar picks. And we knew. Bad sign. Audible. Don't get freaked out. Calm. Kind of like Gino Smith. Calm.

Solve problems. It's third and 12. We're fine. Get this. Gino, you're our guy. don't get freaked out calm kind of like Geno Smith calm solve problems it's third and twelve we're fine we're going to get this Geno you're our guy Tyler Lockett drops the pass Geno comes to the sidelines

says calm we got this they hit a touchdown a couple plays later that's what we do Kyler and Cliff don't have that those are

the million dollar picks for week nine let's go when you ride transit please be safe The Million Dollar Picks for Week 9. Let's go! Trains move quietly so you won't hear them coming. You won't hear them coming. See? Safe riding sets an example. Yeah, an example for me. Because safety is learned. It's learned. Okay, give it up.

Give what up? Really? Really, really. This message is brought to you by Metrolinks. All right, Kevin Smith is here. The 90s, 1994, Clerks comes out. 2022, post-pandemic, Clerks 3 is now out. It's 28 years apart.

When did Clerks 2, was that like directly in the middle? What was the exact year for Clerks 2? It was, we did Clerks 94. Well, we made it in 93, it came out in 94. Clerks 2 was 2006, so 12 years later. Oh, yeah. So it's like three generations, basically. That's like pre-social media. Yeah, yeah. So it's like three generations, basically. That's like

pre-social media. Yeah. I mean, that's the thing. It's like when we were doing Clerks 3, even putting cell phones in their hands, digital cell phones was new. In Clerks, it was still flip phones and stuff like that. So yeah, it reminded me of like, I fell out of The Simpsons for a few years. I was an avid Simpsons kid growing up. And then like for the last 15, I fell out of it. And then when Disney plus put them all up, I was like,

I'm going to watch all the fucking Simpsons day that Bart had an iPad, like completely fucked me up where I'm like, no, what? Surely no. But of course they incorporated iPads while I was gone and stuff. So yeah, when we headed into Clerks 3, it's kind of important to update it a little bit. At the end of the day, Bill, it's a movie with a three in the title, so nobody's expecting much growth, which is good because it's a stealth picture.

We come in with people going, I know what this movie is going to be. And they're right for a good third of it, maybe half of it. But then movie becomes something else entirely based on the fact that like, I can't do what I did on Clerks, man. Clerks is a fucking magic trick. That's like pulling a quarter from somebody's ear and stuff. When I made the movie, I was working at a convenience store where we shot the movie, man. So it's one of the most authentic and earnest movies ever made because that motherfucker really wanted to be a filmmaker so badly. But it's authentic because it's boots on the ground retail experience. I think, honestly, after decades, I now understand why people like clerks. Everybody has had a shitty job and everybody has had a job where they've done anything but work while they're at the job. And so that's what

kind of clerks is about. So when I introduced myself to the world via clerks, by saying like, hi, my name is Kevin Smith, and I want to talk to you until the day I die. Clerks is this wonderful little magic trick where it's like, this fucking dude, he turned the camera off and rung somebody up. And then he went back to the camera and shot a picture and stuff. So it's made by a guy who understands like what working for the man is like being part of the proletariat because of the success of clerks. I never had to work again. And so instantly I went from being part of the proletariat to being a guy

that owned a store. I've owned Jay and Tom Bob's secret stash complex store in red bank, New Jersey for 25 years. I'm standing inside Smod Castle Cinemas, which is a movie theater I just bought with my friends, my hometown movie theater. So I became the boss. And in clerks, there's a guy named Randall

who says a line like, this job would be great if it weren't for the fucking customers. If one of my employees came in and said like, this job would be great if it weren't for the fucking customers, I'd be like, you're fired. And I know I made clerks, so unpack that with your fucking analyst. I can't help you there, but get out. So I can't bring that part of the authentic retail experience anymore. I also can't give you the discovery that Clerks had. Clerks was a movie that was able to be like,

hey man, do you know what snowballing is? And then we tell you and you tell a hundred fucking people because you're like, that's the weirdest thing I've heard. They'll be like, where was that from? You're like, so we became a source of information. Two, three years later, fucking internet happened. I can never tell you anything new like that. Again, if I tried in Clerks 3 to throw some fucking sexual slang in there, somebody would be like, oh, yeah, that's old, man. That's a subcategory on Pornhub that I jerk off to regularly. So the element of surprise and the element of authenticity goes away the moment the movie gets picked up.

It's the best and worst of times. When I do Clerks 2, it's all artifice. And I love Clerks 2. It's one of my favorite things I've ever done. But Clerks works for me because it's my real life. And I just changed everyone's names. Nobody ever fucked a dead guy in the bathroom. But other than that, Clerks is a pretty accurate portrayal of what my life was like at that time.

Clerks 2 looks nothing like any life I've ever lived. You know, Clerks is a film. Clerks 2 is a movie. It's got three acts and a happy ending. And the characters go through shit that I never went through. I was never like, I never worked at fast food. The whole movie's set in a movie. It's a fast food joint.

There was never a threat I was going to be forced to move to Florida. And I've lived a life of adventure. And I've done a lot of things in 28 years. But I've never seen a donkey show. So all that movie is just made up. It's Dante and Randall fan fiction. It's me going, what would Dante and Randall do if I had $5 million? So by the time we get to Clerks 3, to me, it feels important to kind of stick the landing.

I got to bring to it the same thing we brought to the first one. The artifice has to be replaced by reality because one of my favorite Taoist proverbs, which makes it sound like I got a bunch, I only know one. Lao Tzu said it like a zillion years ago, but the English translation goes something like this. To be great is to go on. To go on is to go far. To go far is to return. You know, the farthest point you could possibly fucking travel is right back to where you began.

So I've always been fascinated by that. I was like, oh my God, can we fucking do that? Can we Lao Tzu the end of this shit? Instead of being Lao Tzu, can we be Lao Tzu and shit? And I could stick the fucking landing. So I had to go back to what

the original formula of clerks, which is take my real life and just change everybody's name. So Randall has the same heart attack that I had a few years ago. That's the hook of the movie. People are like, holy shit, he's having his heart attack. I see. Dante and Randall still work at that very store that I worked in. And then Dante and Randall go the next step of making a black and white movie about working in that store that looks awfully similar to one I made. So suddenly we're back in authentic territory again, where

there's a relatability. And I've been on the road with this movie since September 4th, man. Last night was show 37 of 50. We were in Durham. I go back out. Wait, so explain that. You're going to theaters and you're just premiering the movie in different cities. And how many people are there so like when we did denver 1800 uh last night was halloween that was a thousand seater but we only had 600 because we were competing with halloween but we knew that going in for months there was a question of like do we cancel it i'm like 600 people showing up to watch my fucking movie man just because 400 i'm old enough and secure enough in my you know self-esteem to be like

i get i can't win at all but fucking 600 is fucking winning so generally it's anywhere from a thousand to eighteen hundred people a night so at big theaters and stuff um we bring in projection systems and every night we show that i intro the movie then we show clerks three and then i come out and do a Q&A that's about as long as the movie if not longer you do the James Lipton at the end oh my god I come out and talk for another night movies 90 minutes 95

minutes I come out and talk for like an hour and 45 to 2 hours you're like Springsteen nobody's leaving I'm doing one more encore there was a show that I did in Red Bank New Jersey at the Count Basie Theaters years ago that we called the Springsteen Shokes. One night I was like,

let me see if I could do a Bruce and outlast the fucking audience. It went seven hours. And at the end of the show, we had maybe 20% of the audience left. It was four in the morning. And we were down to questions like, boxers or briefs?

And I was like, well, shit. Boxers, not briefs. How was like, well, shit, boxers, not for... How do you make a grilled cheese? Exactly. They were just like, it was a contest of wills between me and the audience. So every night when we tour the movie, I'm going to see the movie with people that have been dialed into this shit since I started back in 1994. Some of them are as old as me.

Some of them are as old as me. Some of them are kids. Some of them are like this. I saw this movie on a first date with a girl in college. Now I'm married to her and these are four kids. It's your fucking fault. So you're seeing the movie as the filmmaker with the most rigged audience in history. Everybody in that room will get every reference, whether they laugh or not, that's up to them. But every reference will be got. It's like going to a Marvel movie. Like when I went to Endgame and Captain America catches Thor's hammer, everybody goes crazy because we all know what that means. We've been watching these movies long enough. There are moments throughout the movie where like, I'll never make a Marvel movie. I'm not that talented, but I've had those moments

where the whole collective fucking audience goes absolute crazy, man. And they're applauding as if we did something cool like that. So it's a religious experience, man. It's like going to a church every night where I'm both the priest and Jesus at the same time. Meanwhile, the movie's already out on digital. We came out a couple weeks ago at this point. So I'm still touring a movie, even though people could watch it at home and a good portion of the audience that comes to see it. They're like, oh my God, I watched it at home. I can't wait to watch it here with all these people. Because part of watching it with a huge fan base is like what does it for the people who are, in all honesty, overpaying to see the movie.

You're talking about people who are paying like 50 bucks to come watch the movie with me. But the secret is the movie is coming for free. You're really just coming to see a Kevin Smith show. And I'm like, hey, man, by the way, here's this new movie I made. Listen, we're at the movie theater I work and somebody's leaving a message right now. An answer machine message? That's how it is. Wow. He's talking about we right now. An answer machine message? That's how old this is. Wow.

He's talking about we're having an event tonight. So I drove from North Carolina this morning to Jersey because we're having a dogma screening here at the theater. And then on Thursday, George R.R. Martin is coming and we're doing like a chit chat, like this kind of thing and stuff. So this theater, man, has become like in the midst of the clerk's tour the convenience store an oasis that i come back to and then we throw events at like constantly and it's like what we make in the theater is i ain't

dismissing it i love money i'm as as capitalist as the next american but it's literally chump change compared to like what i make in my day job. But like we're having this dogma screening where the admission was you bought a Silent Bob bathrobe because we make those. So like 110 people bought bathrobes. We're all going to sit around in bathrobes, Silent Bob bathrobes and watch dogma. And I'll get a picture out of that. That'll go up on social media. Oh my God, I'm having a fucking time in my life at this theater.

Plus, I now have a place where even if everybody else is like we ain't playing your shit no more I was like I know one theater that's gonna play my shit anytime I want Clerks 3 is gonna play here for like two years you watch um I that was an incredible answer that was like 10 minutes this is the least work

I've had to do in a podcast people have told me that I'm a good guest because they're like I get laundry done I go make breakfast I get to do in a podcast. People have told me that I'm a good guest because they're like, I get laundry done. I go make breakfast. I get to do a bunch of shit. I just ask one question, fuck off, you go off. Well, you said one thing in there that I wanted to hit on where you were talking about for clerks, there was some discovery elements to it. When you watch it, you're like, wait, what's that? And you just didn't know. And then you would tell your friends. There's this weird era of movies that is basically from and it's my era because I graduated

college in 92, but it's like 92 to 97 right before the internet hits. What year were you born? I was born in 69. So there were these different movies that had these elements and me and my friends would go nuts and we had no idea

if we were the only people that cared about this. Cause how'd we know? We just knew the people in our circle. So like, remember that movie sleep with me where Tarantino did the top gun thing about how the guys were gay. And I was like, that was amazing.

And then three other people I knew saw it. And that was it. Same thing for, I don't know, but some of the Tarantino stuff that he would weave into his movies, your movie, some of the stuff in kicking and screaming, some of the Tarantino stuff that he would weave into his movies, your movie, some of the stuff in Kicking and Screaming, some of the stuff in Singles. Oh, Bomba. Right, right. There were just these things and you were just like, I don't know if anyone

even has an opinion on this. And then you find out in the internet, it's like, oh, everybody loved this. Like Buffalo Bill from Silence of the Lambs was another one. My friends and I thought that was the funniest thing ever. We had no idea anybody else thought that was funny. So I think Clerks from like the 37 and stuff like that, these little touchpoint things that we loved and we were like, do other people love this? It seems like this movie did good. He's getting to make another movie.

That's good. But we just kind of had no idea. But you were experiencing it in real time and you knew you knew it was hitting oh my god it was i mean i wish i knew then what i knew now of course and that's a you know common refrain of the elderly and whatnot um because when you're a kid this object impermanence is like oh it'll always be like this i'm always going to be the flavor of the month like this is and I got a year flavor of the year man and still it went on and then Mallrats happened

and Mallrats is now a beloved movie but when it came out critics fucking hated it and it died at the box office so I became like an indie film whipping boy where they were like this is what happens when you give those Sundance kids money they make bullshit like Mallrats and whatnot

by the way just to be fair, Mallrats was pretty quickly, belatedly a beloved movie. I would say within a year. People are like, no, no, fuck critics. This movie's good. Fuck them. Five years. As the guy in the God seat, I had to wait until it was reclaimed. And so naturally, I would feel it first. So for five years, I got away with making Mallrats jokes. Like at the Indie Spirit Awards in 19, I think, 96, I was presenting with Laura Dern. And I get up in front of all my indie film peers. And I'm like, hey, before we introduce the award, I just want to take this opportunity to apologize for Mallrats. I don't know what I was thinking. They all laughed. Roger Ebert took that so seriously when he reviewed the Chasing Amy flick years later.

He was like, Kevin Smith made a film once that was so bad he apologized for it. And, you know, the internet made stuff like that travel. But I, in real time, I got to live all that stuff. So Clerks was a movie that never played on more than 50 screens. So I had true arthouse success, but I myself wouldn't necessarily know until the internet how we did, so to speak.

Because back in the day, the only way you knew how you did is critics and what the box office number was. There was no way to get in contact with the audience. That's why 1995, I was on the internet, man. Ming Chen, who was a guy from our TV show, Cowboy Bookman, he was a student in Amherst and he was a big Clerks fan. He built like this very primitive Clerks website with these tiny ass MPEG clips and stuff. And I reached out to him through my ex-girlfriend because she was in college at the time. And she was like, I saw a Clerks website and it was amazing. I was like, what's a website? And so this guy I got in contact with,

I was like, can you build me one of these websites so I can meet the people who buy tickets to my stuff? So from late 95 forward, I was on the internet interacting with the audience. And there was only one other filmmaker. It was me and Peter Jackson. Long before he had touched the rings and shit. This was Peter Jackson of Meet the Feebles

and Bad, and what was it? Bad Taste. So long before even Heavenly Creatures, man. Eventually he fucked off the internet and started making classy films and winning Oscars. I stayed on the internet.

I was fascinated by it. I was like, I could literally talk to a motherfucker who bought a ticket on Friday night and ask them why. Why did you buy a ticket on Friday night and ask them, why? Why did you buy a ticket to this fucking movie, man? Dig in and find out and stuff. So now they call it direct-to-consumer, but I just love talking to the fucking audience,

man. These are the people that were keeping me from having a real-ass job. So from 95 forward, I've been online. And over the course of that time, slowly amassed an audience that people in my business were very quick to dismiss. They would always be like, oh, film Twitter, especially. It's like, oh, he just has that audience. That's the only reason he works.

And I always say like, yes, Spielberg has that audience is just bigger than mine. Like at the end of the day, having an audience is not a crime. That's what every artist aspires to at the end of the day. And the audience that I've had, people who have been with me like since the fucking inception of the internet and whatnot,

since the time where you could say, oh, I did the internet last night. It was fun and mean that you hit every fucking site and shit like that. So some of those cats have been with me all this time. And they're the only reason that I get to still make shit. Clerks 3 has only happened. I'm trying to make this movie for like 10, 12 years. It only came together because we did Jay and Silent Bob reboot

and Lionsgate had home video. They didn't even have theatrical and shit, just home video. So that meant streaming digital, but it also meant Blu-rays and DVDs, which some people still buy physical media. They called us up four months after Jay and Silent Bob Reboot Home Video was done. They were like, if you have any more of this Jay and Silent Bob bullshit, we sold so many Blu-rays and DVDs. If you could keep it under 8 million, we'll make whatever the fuck you want. And I was like, I have nothing but Jay and Silent Bob bullshit. So that's where Clerks 3 got financed. The audience who,

you know, people, my people who don't like me always been dismissive about my audience. They manifested the movie by simply by buying fucking Blu-rays and DVDs. So being like this with the audience for years has prolonged my career. There are a bunch of people I came up with ain't working anymore. I'm still working, even though the business is like- Your rookie class.

This is the only fear when they were like, you're going on Bill's podcast. I was like, I don't know shit about sports, except for TV, so I'm fucked. In sports, you get drafted right into the league from college and all the guys from your class, this guy, so like class of 93 and it's like, you were in there with these guys,

these guys, these guys, you were definitely, there was some sort of era that I feel like is your draft class, you know? Um, yes. In my,

my rookie class, um, Richard Linklater precedes me by two years. Quentin precedes me by two years. Robert precedes me by one year. Quentin precedes me by two years. Robert precedes me by one year. I precede Ed Burns. Bomback's right

there with you. Bomback is 90, I want to say 96. 94, Kicking and Screaming. So same year. Is it 94? Yeah. And then Soderbergh's early. Soderbergh's like a big brother. He's like 89. Soderbergh is 89.oderbergh's like a big brother he's like 89 Soderbergh is 89 he was the reason I never thought of Sundance because when I heard Sundance I just saw movies

in color with movie stars in them so we never even thought about taking Clerks to Sundance and it was somebody else down the line was like you should submit Bob Hawke guy who found the movie at the independent feature film marketplace was like why you should submit. Bob Hawke, guy who found the movie at the Independent Feature Film Marketplace, was like, why don't you submit to Sundance? And I was like, well, the movie's in black and white. And he's like, what does that mean? And I was like, well, I guess it means nothing. And we submitted and the rest kind of worked out for us.

Well, with Clerks, you were talking about how it was only in 50 movie theaters, which is insane. I felt like it was one of those slow burn movies that's impossible to have now. Days to Confuse was one of those slow burn movies that's impossible to have now. Dazed and Confused was like this too, even though that did okay, but I didn't see Dazed and Confused until it was on cable. I didn't see your movie until it was on Blockbuster. I was like, oh, Clerks, I heard about this. Where'd you go to college? I was in the East Coast at Holy Cross. Where's Holy Cross? Worcester, Massachusetts. And then I was in Boston after that.

Probably didn't stretch out as far as Worcester, but. And then I was in Boston after that. So probably didn't stretch out as far as Worcester, but we were definitely in Boston for sure. Cause that's where Ben saw it. Ben was just like, Oh my God, I saw your fucking movie in Cambridge and I fucking loved it. And one year later he auditioned for Mall Red, but we probably didn't get as far as Worcester because again, it literally never played on more than 50 screens. They would shift the print around. But even now, a successful indie film plays on 500 screens or something. We were never more than 50, just big city markets all the time. And the audience for the movie, oddly enough, wasn't who I considered the audience to be today. They were intelligentsia. It was people writing

smart things about the movie in the New York Times, the LA Times, Chicago Tribune. So my first audience in theaters, very highbrow. People who are like, so this is what life is like in suburban New Jersey? How interesting. Almost looking at us like zoo animals. The real audience, like the audience that I still carry with me to this day, are like you who saw the movie because of Blockbuster. The year that we came out on video, I went to a video, a VSDA, the Video Software Dealers Association conference the next year. And when I walked in, I was treated like a fucking rock star. And I was a big fan of home video, but I didn't make the connection. They were like, Clerks is the number two ROI movie of the year,

which means return on investment. Whatever they paid for that VHS, they made four or five times that on that title. And then they said, but you also have the dubious honor of being the most stolen videotape of the year. So they had to constantly buy it, waste it as well.

You know, it's funny, you and a couple other people from that era convinced a whole generation of people that they could write scripts. And you probably felt that immediately. It's like, oh, I could have fucking written Clerks. Just two guys hanging out in a convenience store. I could have done that. Clerks is the movie that launched a thousand ships and they didn't all reach the new world like mine did. I honestly, like Ratatouille, man, I'm like, anyone could cook.

I believe anybody can write a script. Everybody is a fascinating little content generator because we all live individual lives, look nothing like anybody else's. Yes, there are very much similarities. That's why comedy works because there are a lot of similarities between people, but the differences are vast enough where anybody could be a fucking storyteller. You know, I meet people all the time. They're like, oh, I can't do what you do. I'm like, bullshit. All I do is take my life and change names. People are like, I can't act. I'm like, bullshit. You're performative by nature. Give me two minutes. I can put you in front of a camera and you would be an actor because you act every second of the day. You don't present your real self to the world. You present the best

possible version of yourself to the world. That's acting like you know and some people be like yeah but that ain't meryl streep that's where meryl streep got started motherfucker that fucking basic basic root of it and stuff she just exceptional at it but we don't all have to be exceptional at the thing that we do i'm living fucking proof of that man i've been working in this business nearly 30 years phil there ain't a single day don't go by somebody on on the internet, don't tell me I'm fucking terrible at my job and shit. And tell me I should stop. And that has been going on for 28 fucking years. And I

wonder every time I read it, I'm like, don't they understand math? Like, I got time on my side, man. Like, a lot of these people talk about like, oh, fucking, he ain't good for indie film. It's like, if you enjoy indie film, you're welcome. I was one of the people with Quentin and Robert and Richard Glader who helped lay the track

for that sort of thing in the 90s and whatnot. So sticking around, I remember when Dark Knight came out. And in the trailer, there's that moment where Harvey Dent's like, you either die a hero or live long enough to become the villain. And I remember when that came out, I tweeted like, that's bullshit. I don't think that quote actually works. And a bunch of people pushed back going, it is true and shit. Years later, I now get that fucking quote because I've gone through it all.

I've lived long enough to not be the fucking hero and become the fucking villain. And then I've lived long enough to go back to being the fucking hero. If you're going to be a figure in pop culture or work in pop culture, you can't maintain like nobody's Tom Hanks, right? You can't maintain common consensus all through. Sometimes you lose people along the way. I made a Masters of the Universe cartoon for Netflix.

Bunch of people jumped off for that. Like you fucked up my childhood. Things like that. So along the way, people kind of ebb and flow, but like, I've been lucky enough to not have to rely on the powers that be to kind of feed myself. I could stand on stage and talk about making movies and make more doing that than actually making movies anymore. So it's all because of the audience, man, that audience that everyone's like your audience. It's like, because of my audience, that audience, like, but me and my friends own a fucking movie theater now. Like, and I can only do that. Cause I was like, Oh, we'll do cool events and they'll come. And

like one of the cool events that we're doing coming up is clerks open all night. We start at midnight. We show clerks, then clerks to clerks, three back to back to back. And then we eat breakfast from quick stop, which is right down the street. Shit like that would keep a motherfucker young, my friend. I won't make you rich, but it'll make you fucking happy. I've always been interested in your relationship with the scrutiny and the attention from afar because you both embrace the audience, but you also heard every critic and felt every critic and seemed like you took it, I would say, the hardest of just about anybody. Like you really, it really, really, really bugged you. But then you also loved your fans too. And it was like, it just seemed, and I know nothing, we've never talked before, but it seemed like you were just getting pulled in all different directions with it. Was that always the case from like the mid nineties on or did that eventually become the case? I think that was a condition of the internet. Like if the internet didn't exist, I don't think I would have gotten through, gone through that. But it was akin to like, you know how we read a, like a young actresses or young actors who are like, I had to fucking grow up in front of people. And like, I was drinking in front of people and like being an awkward teenager in front of people. That is kind of a similar thing here. Like I had to learn to be online in front of people. I had to learn to be a creative online in front of people.

And I was there for the dawn of the internet, which is, well, that was the, that was the meanest part of the internet. The late 90s, that was people didn't even know what they were doing. They were just like, I'm going to say the meanest thing I could possibly think of. That's the thing. People were like, no repercussions. Nobody knows who I am and I could fucking say anything. So in the beginning, it was like, oh, this is great. People who love you find you at this website and hang out. But that meant also that people that fucking hate you, the earliest trolls could come sit on your website and be like, you suck.

I saw your movie. It's fucking terrible. You don't know how to frame shit. You know, just fucking attack and stuff. So I dealt with it from some of the public. Then you have to remember, I was an indie golden boy with the first movie, beating the shit out of it with the second movie,

re-embraced with the third movie, Chasing Amy and Dogma, and Scott's this man, they're like, all right, fucking Mallrats was a fluke. He's fucking good. uh beating the shit out of with the second movie re-embraced with the third movie chasing amy and dogma ensconces me and they're like all right fucking mall rats was a fluke he's fucking good and then i make jane silent bob strike back and they're like wait a second and then jersey girl i'm like uh-oh he's fucking gone so i've i've had the critics embrace me and then i've had the critics walk away and be like he's fucking I'm done with him and stuff and that was a weird relationship to figure out because so many of them I knew personally so you know it's it's a weird thing when it's like I know you why would you write that about

the movie yeah why don't you just not fucking reveal it or something like it but that's you can't presume upon that relationship. It's not like we were tight or fucking like, these are my best friends. I remember like during the too fat to fly incident, um, when I got booted off a plane by Southwest for being too heavy and shit. Um, and I was tweeting about it and shit. Uh, some of the press like went after me so fucking hardcore. And I took it so personally because I'm like, I know all of these people. I'm the person they fucking call whenever they want an easy quote

and shit like that. And now they're going to turn and I'm the fucking goat and shit. And I remember talking to Anthony Bresnikan. I'm sure he'll remember this. Right after that incident, he was doing some harmless ass fucking interview for USA Today. And I was always very partial to him because USA Today is where my wife, Jennifer, worked. That's how we met. She interviewed me and stuff. And it was a great interview. So there, Anthony gets on the phone and I'm holding all this hostility for all my journalist friends who didn't circle the wagons and instead were like, did you see this shit? Did you see he got fucking thrown off the plane? And I hit Anthony Bresigin with both barrels as

if he was the one person who was doing it all or something like that. I always felt bad about this to this day. That was unloading where I'm like, what the fuck, man? Like, you can't go out there and stand up for me? I'm being humiliated and shit. So I've definitely had to go through it

in front of people, you know, both professionally via critics and then unprofessionally or non-professionally with just people on the internet attacking you because you're you or whatever. And learning that, riding those waves was very difficult in the beginning. Now, not so much. Now, I don't really bump into, honestly, I don't interact with the reviews at all. I don't read them. That's probably the healthiest approach to it and shit. I used to read every fucking review.

Now it's just like, somebody will be like, hey, they generally like it or they generally don't like it. And I'm like, all right, good to know. Well, you tapped into some of that with Chasing Amy, with the way they would react to the comic books. I mean, in the live thing, when they would get it signed and when the guy goes after Jason Lee's character is ready to fight somebody.

That was like shit like that. I remember making movies where you had to explain to people what a Comic-Con was. You had to explain to people in the dialogue who Stan Lee was. So when I began my my career you really had to like thread the needle and fucking be and be very expository what happened was during the course of my career and i don't think i had anything to do that i just got fucking lucky as shit is pop culture shifted directly in the same venn diagram that I fucking travel. Those Marvel movies, comic book culture mainstream.

And I've been talking comic book since I got to the world stage. And then suddenly I was well positioned not to make them, mind you. They'll never ask me to make one of those fucking movies. But to talk about them, to be like, what do you think? And shit like that.

It's crazy how much of my world, how much of my job that doesn't involve making movies surrounds movies that I'll never make in a million years. But it's just because I've been talking about this shit since the beginning, proselytizing for it, that when it arrived and everyone and your grandmother knows who Stan Lee is, suddenly I was well positioned. I'm so grateful because when I was a kid, the culture was more about sports than anything else. I was an outlier kid who liked movies and TV and cartoons when I was young. Everything was sports-oriented. I grew up in New Jersey, so we're in the nexus of fucking like, there's New York, there's fucking Philadelphia and shit

like that. And then Jersey gets its own team later on with the Devils. But I was never a part of that. So when the culture shifted more toward like comic books, entertainment, pop culture, like it worked out so well for me. Honestly, that's the only reason I still have a job. If you look at my career, or more importantly, box office, you'd have to factor in home video, which is a big part of my early career and shit. But at the end of the day, there's no reason I should still be working today. And yet I can still pull it off because I could bring a budget in like this. At the end of the day, I don't need to be like, I need 50 million bucks. I'm like, oh, I can do this with three. I can do this with 250,000 bucks because I started indie.

So I could always pivot back to it and that's been beneficial for me. But also I found shit which was more interesting to me along the way. I started as a filmmaker, but then like the idea of talking became far more interesting. And then podcasts like introduced themselves

in 2007 into my world. So I've been podcasting since like 2007. In the beginning, it was like me and Leo Laporte. And me. And Adam Kirk. Were you there in the beginning? Yeah, I was 07. Yeah, I was the sport.

I had the sports one. The sports one. There was a time when there was a sports one, a movie one. Like we were there for the beginning of something. Like, you know, and I'm sure you figured out better than me. I thought I was brilliant when I was like, oh my God, if I do these podcasts for free, they'll come pay and see me when I do a live show near them.

I never once thought about advertising. All the smart people shit. The only reason we got into advertising, we did it in 2008, was because one day I got handed a bill for my server costs. And I was like, what's this? And they were like, that's what your server costs are. I was like, podcasts are free. They're like, to everybody else, bro. Not to the guy that hosts the podcast. So I was like, I didn't account for this. I can't fucking pay for this. This is not part of my budget. So we started thinking about

how we could pay for this shit. And it was so primitive. It was like, well, remember that movie quiz show? The whole thing was sponsored by Geritol. What if we got one sponsor to come in and shit? And I remember Scott Mosher was like, who are we going to reach out to? Fucking Wonder Bread? And I was like, no, there is one good sponsor. And so in 2008, we had made a movie called Zack and Mary Make a Porno. And we referenced this product and they wrote us a letter after the movie saying, thanks for the shout out. If you ever want to do anything, reach out to us. Love the good people at Fleshlight. So we reached out to Fleshlight and we were like, a lot of guys watch this show and listen to our show. I need to fucking pay for these server costs. We're going out on a tour. Will you sponsor us? And so Fleshlight came in

and started sponsoring us. And for about three years prior to Joe, we sold so many male fuck toys. It was fucking crazy. And eventually our audience was all fucked up. Joe Rogan calls me one day. He goes, how real is this Fleshlight? I was like, it's fucking real. It's the real feel, man. I was like, yeah, I'm telling you, your audience, you can sell more than I've sold. I said, I'm tapped out and shit. And so then Joe started selling them. He got in tight with the dude. The whole company's based in Austin. But it was more about trying to figure out a model, even though the model had happened. Even in our discussion, I was like, quiz show had Geritol. All we had to do was look at what happened before. Look at the early days of radio, look at the early days of TV. But I wasn't

visionary enough. I was just enthralled with the notion that I could have my own show. That's it. Like, I don't have to buy a radio station. I can just sit around and talk about whatever the fuck I want to talk about. And it never occurred to me that someone would be doing it about sports until five years into my podcasting career. And all of a sudden, that was the loudest level of podcasting. And it was like, of course, because it's all fucking opinion based. And what opinion matters more than someone else's opinion? Don't matter if they're fucking famous or on TV or somebody else, man.

We know the metric. The metric is if they agree with what we say, they'll listen for a while. And if they fucking disagree with what we say, they will listen to the whole fucking show. All of this data existed and I wasn't smart enough to figure it out. I thought I was the smartest fucking tool in the shed because I was like, these free podcasts will bring people to my live shows. And they have, absolutely.

But I wasn't like you and Rogan, man, where I was like, wait, how much? Well, that was one of the reasons I ended up leaving ESPN, because they had no idea how to monetize the podcast. We did the same thing. Our one sponsor was Subway. And Subway did every single Grantland podcast we had, and they just paid whatever. It was like $700,000,

something like that. And that was it. Oh my. And it was like, we were making one 10th. I just come to hearing that. God. Oh,

we were mad. It wasn't enough. We felt like, cause we knew what other people were making. We were like, Jesus. That's the thing. By the time I like one day,

somebody was like, Oh, uh, there's this podcast company. I was like, company like oh they put ads on podcasts they have a network wait i i have a network i don't do that and they're like well they're much smarter than you it was you know i can't complain because i never got into it for the money i just love the idea that i can say anything i want and nobody's gonna to say like, well, you can't curse. And I can talk about stupid shit

like me and my friends or fucking broad shit like fucking on Hollywood Babylon. It's like a cabaret show or Fat Man Beyond. We just talk about comics. So I was in it for the love and stuff, but it has been ironic being one of the first through the door and watching everyone else get rich

and being like, well, in the next life, I will do this a lot differently. Can we go back to Chasing Amy? Yeah. I just watched it like two months ago. It's to me like just belongs. It's a 90s movie. Whatever the list of 90s movies are, you got Affleck with the, what is that? A Fu Manchu or a Van Dyke? Technically, I believe it's a 90s movie. Whatever the list of 90s movies are, you got Affleck with the...

What is that? A Fu Manchu or a Van Dyke? Technically, I believe it's a Van Dyke. I think it is a Van Dyke. A lot of people call it a goatee, but it's not a goatee. This is a goatee. So I go Van Dyke, but some people believe the Van Dyke separates here. But I call it Van Dyke. Total Van Dyke. So you got Affleck. He's not

Good Will Hunting Affleck yet. Not yet. He goodwill hunting Affleck yet not yet but he still has his original teeth if you look at that movie oh yeah um

Joey Lauren Adams who's one of the 90s it girls and Jason Lee who you saw something special in before anybody um

that movie first of all I love that movie I have a complicated relationship with the last 20 minutes of it that has become a lot more interesting in the world we live in now. And when I was rewatching, I was like, oh, the problem was me when I watched this

because this actually makes way more sense now than it did in 1997. I was like, what the fuck is he doing? He's just trying to fuck with us. Oh, now Jason Lee's in love with Affleck. Get the fuck out of here. But now when I watched it, I was like, what the fuck is he doing? He's just trying to fuck with us. Oh, now Jason Lee's in love with Affleck. Get the fuck out of here. But now when I watched it, I was like, oh, I get it. It's something about fluidity. But the weird thing is the audience flips as well.

So for a bunch of people, a young subset, that movie is problematic. I was going to say, I was going to ask you, is that movie canceled in some circles? It's not been canceled yet because there are still folks who are like, look, they'll defend it, going like, look, you weren't around in the 90s. This movie was a buoy in a storm at sea. Yes, it was made by a fucking breeder, but

he showed a window into our culture. I've met so many people who are like, Alyssa Jones made me think that it was going to be okay one day. I lived in fucking Kansas where there were no Alyssa Jones, no life like Chasing Amy. And I saw that movie and I told myself, hang on, hang on until college. You're going to get there. Or I came out to my parents because of that movie and stuff. So there are people who have been around since then who still give it weight. Younger folks, they're the ones that tend to view it more critically. But then you have, you're embedded in the comic book scene, which is amazing. Actually, that part

has aged incredibly well. The young Affleck part, that's aged incredibly well, Jason Lee. It's this movie that has evolved in all these different ways. Mostly good, I think. But then, yeah, I think the part where somebody who's

gay, and then they find Ben Affleck, and it's this fantasy of the straight male can come in and kind of set you the right way. I can see why people would think that was a problem. Which that was never the point of the story. And you have Banky, who's Jason Lee's character, say that. And he was never portrayed as, this is the guy you want to be. But because Jason Lee is so relatable and stuff, and some of his positions were very relatable, there were a bunch of people that kind of like what sounds like you went through, who watched the movie and ran into the third act in a big, bad way.

That was the dividing line. The lightning rod of that movie was that third act. For me, in 1997, I was like, he just did this because he wanted a big, splashy, crazy ending. I don't feel like this was authentic to the characters. I've seen it enough times, too, and you have a lot of breadcrumbs

leading to that moment that I feel like you have to watch it eight, nine times, and then it's like, all right, this makes sense. They pointed a seed there. They pointed it there. Like I actually get it. First time I didn't get it. That was the first one that I started showing like the, I started wearing my heart on my sleeve. I'd read a review, um, by Matt Zoller sites. And it was in the New York press and he reviewed mall rats, but in it, he also used the time to review clerks in the same piece. And it wasn't a crazy favorable review, but he wrote like, you know, stuff like there are two lines. I remember he said, you know, sometimes a filmmaker doesn't put a hockey game on a roof to make some grand statement.

Sometimes they put a hockey game on a roof in a movie because they like hockey, which I was like, that's absolutely fucking true. He also said that clearly I'm a very gooey center. I have a very gooey center and that I'm too afraid to wear my heart on my sleeve, but I should embrace that. And that was on Mallrats. I read that review. So going into Chasing Amy, that's when I was like, all right, I'm going to go touchy feely for lack of a better description and started kind of layering it in a little bit. Clerks and Mallrats are all about, let me make you laugh. By the time we start chasing Amy and right up till now with Clerks 3, it becomes more humanist.

Like I want to do things like, yeah, of course I want to make you laugh. Like that's my chief job. But I also want to like make you feel. Well, you also, you take people into a world in that movie too. Like I didn't really know anything about how they make comic books

and you know, the relationship between the two guys and one is a little bit better than the comic books and the relationship between the two guys. And one is a little bit better than the other. But the other one's still valuable. I don't know. I thought that world was cool. That makes me so happy. Because I remember Siskel and Ebert, when they reviewed it,

they were talking about they got jobs. These jobs, I've never seen these jobs. Most of the time you go to the movies, they're fucking kings or cops or whatever. It's like, who knew that there was a guy that inked a comic These jobs, I've never seen these jobs. Most of the time you go to the movies, they're fucking kings or cops or whatever. Who knew that there was a guy that inked a comic and a guy that penciled and shit? Being able to bring little information like that to the table is something that I probably won't have as much opportunity to do

because we live in the information age where everybody knows everything. On Clerks 3, there's a joke that I've been... It existed in both versions of the clerks three script, the one we never made and the one we wound up making, um, involving like some biblical passage about the good feet. And I kept my asshole tightened for the better part of 10 years,

hoping that nobody was going to suddenly do that joke. Right. Yeah. Um, in the information age, it's impossible to surprise unless you're, you know, Trey and Matt

and you're making South Park and you're making it in almost real time so you can comment on what's going on. But when you're making a movie, you know, it's like turning

a fucking cruise ship. You've got to hope, fingers crossed, that whatever you're saying is still relevant a year from then or still lands the same way. Yeah. I think Chasing Amy is fascinating to watch now, but I think my favorite piece of it is Affleck because of the journey we've been on with him. It's so funny to see him in that movie

and then think, wow, I thought he was good when I saw it, but then he became Ben Affleck. And then you had a relationship with both of those guys and they popped into some of your stuff. He came in to almost, yeah, Ben was in, let's see, seven, eight movies. I met him on Mallrats when he came in for auditions and he was just adorable. Like Ben is, as you know, legit.

I ain't just saying this to blow my mind and shit. One of the funniest human beings I've ever known in my life. He's one of the smartest and absolutely one of the funniest and one of the best writers I've ever known. So he comes- And by the way, a great guest, which I think now he's too good of a guest. So his people are like, you probably don't, maybe don't be a guest. Honestly, I took a page out of his interview style back in 97, 98

because back then, he was brutally honest. Brutally honest. And then one day he kind of ran into it with the press and his publicist was like, no more. Yeah, he can't help himself. But again, he's smart

and fucking clever and funny and stuff. So when he came to work with us on Mallrats, he was working on Good Will Hunting when it was still at Castle Rock, before we brought it over to Miramax and stuff. So he would come and be like, I don't shoot for like five days here in Minnesota. Can I go back west and meet with Rob Reiner? He was at Castle Rock about this movie we're doing.

I said, oh my God, absolutely, man. Just come back, you know, by the time we got to shoot your shit next week. And he would always write me a note. He's raised insanely well. So he would write a note going like, thanks for letting me go back West. Like I'm having a great time on this movie.

You're a good guy. So I just, I loved him on a personal level of like, that's classy. Note writing motherfucker I loved him on a personal level of like, that's classy. Note writing motherfucker. He tells me now, he's like, that wasn't sincere. I was being sarcastic, but I'm like, you were not, bitch. I still have those notes. There's not a hint of sarcasm. So at the end of the shoot, I'll never forget. He's like, we're done. You're done with me. I was like, I wish I could write more parts for you. And I was like, but yeah, we're finished. And he goes, well, what are you doing after this? I was like, we're done. You're done with me. I was like, I wish I could write more parts for you. And I was like, but yeah, we're finished. And he goes, well, what are you doing after this? I was like,

we go back to LA to cut the movie. He goes, you're going to LA? He goes, I live in LA, man. So when you get to LA, you got to look me up. We should hang out because I'm a good guy. That was his pitch. And he maintained years later, he's like, I was being sarcastic. I was like, you were not. You were actually saying like, I'm worth hanging out with and shit. So I did start hanging out with him and Chasing Amy exists because Ben is so charming. Like it exists because I

was going through it with my girlfriend, Joey Adams at the time. But the Holden character is, is while it's kind of pulled from my life, it's made, tailor made for Ben because I was like, oh my God, he's so charming and shit.

He's so funny. Like he could totally pull this dialogue off. So I'll never forget, I was in Tampa with Joey. She was working on a TV show called Second Noah. And I'd been writing

Chasing Amy, but I hadn't told Ben. And so I was alone in the room because she was doing a night shoot. So I called up Affleck and not even on a cell phone. It was on like the fucking

hotel phone and shit. And I was like, what are you up to? He's like, oh, even on a cell phone. It was on like the fucking hotel phone and shit. And I was like, what are you up to? He's like, oh, I'm fucking bombing around LA, man. Ain't nothing to do and shit. I was like, well, I just wanted to like put this out there. I started writing this script that I want to do next and I'm writing, you're the male lead. And he was like, what?

And I was like, yeah, Joey's going to play the female lead. You're going to play the male lead. I told him what it was. I was like, I'm about 50 pages in and shit and he goes fucking finally somebody recognizes and i was like yes come down to you know i was in los angeles florida at the time i said i'm going to jersey in three days he was in boston i said come up and meet me in jersey and shit so he took the train up from jersey and i gave him, chasing him, it was only

60 pages at that point. And he goes, are you going to drive me home? I was like, to Boston? No, get your ass back on the train. And he was like, what am I fucking, what am I going to do on the train? He's like, it's such a long trip. I was like, you got something to read. He's like, I'll be done with 60 pages in an hour. Give me something else. So I had Dogma, the script that we hadn't shot yet, but I'd written it years ago so I was like here take dogma then by the time he got home to Boston from the train ride he called me and he was like smitticles

this shit's genius and I was like you like Chasing Amy he goes oh Chasing Amy's nice yes fucking I get it he's going but this dogma script he's going who's playing Bartleby and I was like nobody I don't even know if we're making this movie he goes I must play this fucking part and I was like absolutely but let's concentrate on even know if we're making this movie. He goes, I must play this fucking part. And I was like,

absolutely, but let's concentrate on the meal in front of us, man. What'd you think of Holden? He's like, I could do it in my sleep. It is me.

I was like, he's all bad. And he's like, yeah, absolutely. So, Chasing Amy, Dogma,

Jane Salabop, Strike Back, Jersey Girl, Girl, Clerks 2, and then Zack and Mary Make a Porno is the first one that Ben don't go on. And then he comes back for Jane, Sal and Bob Reboot.

In Jane, Sal and Bob Reboot, if people haven't seen it, I don't recommend watching the whole movie, although I love it. But Affleck has an insanely wonderful monologue that he absolutely fucking destroys, man. Rips your heart out about fatherhood. And I hadn't talked to him in like 10 years. And there's a guy named Kevin McCarthy who interviews people in Washington, DC for like junkets and stuff. And he interviewed Ben on this Netflix junket for a movie Ben was doing. And he goes, Hey, Kevin Smith is making Jane Sondbob reboot and everybody's coming back. Are you going to be there? doing. And he goes, hey, Kevin Smith is making Jay and Silent Bob reboot and everybody's coming back. Are you going to be there? And Affleck goes, no, nobody called me and I'm not busy.

And right away, we were all like, that's a sign. That's he's sending up a fucking smoke signal. So I reached out to him and shit. And sure enough, he was just like, I would love to come play. I would be waiting for you to call me. And so he came out and I got to write a scene didn't even exist in the movie

prior to him coming out to shoot. And he gets came out and I got to write a scene that didn't even exist in the movie prior to him coming out to shoot and he gets to play Holden again. So it's a sequel to Chasing Amy, a little sequel scene where you find out what happened with Holden and Alyssa and even the girl that Alyssa's with at the end of the movie and you find out that

they share a kid and stuff. It's really fucking sweet. But that he came and not only did the scene but like you know most cats of a certain caliber they don't have to learn the dialogue anymore you put write it on cards they wear ear rigs or whatever the hell he came with that shit memorized cold man and delivered it as if he had written it himself i was like affleck what the fuck bro he goes you said everything about parenting that I wanted to say right now in my life.

He's gone, so it was easy to do. It's definitely worthwhile. You can go to the internet, go to YouTube, and be like, Ben Affleck and Jay and Silent Bob reboot. It's like a six, seven minute scene, but it's some of his finest acting. And that's saying a lot, because he's a really great fucking actor.

I went to the wedding, and one of my favorite parts, A, one of my favorite parts was seeing a man happy. Like, you know, I was, I was supposed to go to the original wedding. It didn't happen and shit. They made it happen this time, 20 years later, they stuck the landing. It was absolutely beautiful. But as a Ben Affleck fan, a guy who just likes Affleck's writing, Affleck wrote a speech, bro, a 12 page speech that he delivered to Jennifer at the reception not the vows just at the reception and shit and

like she was she sat in a chair right in front of him while he read it and shit and she was you know it was all about her it was beautiful but as like a huge Affleck fan I sat off to the side like this this brilliant man was able to reference rickets rickets in his speech.

And it somehow was romantic still. I was absolutely flabbergasted. You know why one of the things with you and Aflac, it's a Boston, New Jersey thing. I think there's a bond between Boston people and New Jersey people because we both have a complicated relationship with New York. That's what it is, right? We just both hate the Rangers so much. It's like, my enemy is my friend. Yeah. New York's like this big brother that's kicked our ass in all these different ways. And I think Boston people, we always joke about, we have this attitude like, you think you're better than me? There's that. New Jersey has kind of their version of that too a little more beaten down New Jersey has a very Canadian

thing going for it which is we grow up and live in the shadow of the biggest detention hog on the planet you're like a middle brother exactly everybody talks about fucking New York City

New York City sets the tone did you see what happened in New York New York New Jersey is a butt of you know toxic waste joke

for fucking years and shit like that the devil's ruining hockey all that stuff yeah easy now three cups that's a dynasty

but they it's you always have to try a little bit harder to be noticed. It is like middle child syndrome because everyone's paying attention to the rock star.

And if you want to fucking make any headway whatsoever, you tend to try harder. It doesn't put a chip on our shoulders. Like it doesn't make us, you think you're better than me, but it does make you try harder so much so that honestly, every fourth person i've ever met in hollywood came from new jersey originally like oh my god you're from jersey so i'm like what you too like yeah and it's not a testimony for how badly people want to get out of the fucking state it's a testimony to like what type of people are bred in the shadow of new york city just like canadians grow up in the shadow of amer America and have to deal with like how America

sucks up all the attention, all the air in the room and stuff. You tend to try hardest. My theory, and I can't really test it out, is that if you're from Canada or from New Jersey, you can eat pussy and suck dick insanely well because you try way harder than everybody else. What's your Jersey Mount Rushmore, just out of curiosity? Who's your top four? I know that's a hacky podcast question, but I'm really genuinely interested in your top four. It's not. It's going to be shameless. Springsteen's got to

be on there, right? I would say it would have to be for the people that made a difference for me because what I've got going for me and what I've had going for me for nearly three decades is this working class thing, which I haven't been working class since the first fucking movie, but because like Bruce Springsteen singing about fucking getting out and fucking having nothing. And then that singing about it gives him everything. Same thing with clerks. So the working class hero ethos is

established in New Jersey as a currency by Bruce Springsteen and John Bon Jovi. I can't go as far back as Frank Sinatra. He's a fucking superstar and a crooner. And so he's a different beast altogether. But Bruce Springsteen is the first one who's like, I'm from this place. I'm going to tell you what it's like. I'm going to lionize this place while also lamenting this place at the same time. He gave you a snapshot of his world. Same with Bon Jovi. So those two would definitely have to be up there.

This is going to sound gross, but I put Jason Mewes on that as well. He's a true American original. He has given me enough rocket fuel to stay in this fucking business for nearly 30 years. Well, wait, to be fair, this is your Mount Rushmore, so you can have whoever you want on it. Don't be ashamed of having Jason on there. Done and done. Jason Mews is up there. That leaves me one more spot. I'm tempted to give it to Martin Brodeur, but

as much as we love him in Jersey, technically he's not from Jersey. Then again... Doesn't count. Yeah. Not that he doesn't count. No, but he's not he's not a jersey guy he's Canadian Quebec claims him

he's there so who is my wild card spot who are the candidates um here I know it's I know there was a time

where people would be like what but it's a different world now and I've come to peace with the situation prior to Pensgrove New Jersey uh Bruce Willis but it's a different world now. And I've come to peace with the situation. Pride of Pensgrove,

New Jersey, uh, Bruce Willis. Cause when I was a kid, that's a great one. Bruce Willis is one of the biggest movie star in the world. And when I was a kid watching moonlighting like that, number one,

there's like, I used to watch it with my mom. There's bonding shit there. But number two, he was like our, like, like Bill Murray was in the movies and, and Bruce Willis as David Addison was on TV. The living Bugs Bunny, human Bugs Bunny, who was the smart talker who'd get away with everything, anything. He's in the DNA.

His character, David Addison from Moonlighting and his performance is in the dna of all my smart ass characters like randall brody baggy shit like that so i worked with them later on on cop out and it didn't go well and i've talked about that in the past and stuff but i still put bruce on my mount jersey mount rushmore man because i remember being a kid and being like he's from here. He came from here. I mean, he was born in Germany, but he was raised in England. So that made a difference, man. That helps you fucking dream. Now, if I get to continue to extend it, I know we only get four, but since it's mine, I can put more up there. Lloyd Kaufman from Troma Studios is another one that fucking like, I was like, what do you mean you could have a movie studio in New Jersey? What do you mean a movie could be set in New Jersey? Things like that. Um, who else would

I put uncle Floyd? Um, uh, who was a big TV star, not, not VHF, but UHF TV when I was a kid or whatever the reverse was, he was on like channel 52, uh, Local talent and stuff. He had a dancing puppet and shit like that. But we'll stick with the ones everybody knows. Throwing Sinatra out there was bold. I think people feel like he belongs to Vegas. I know, but he was a Jersey boy. Dive the Wolf.

As is Whitney Houston. I consider myself something of an amateur Whitney Houstonologist. So I might include her on that. She's in our marquee, as you can see behind us. The marquee behind us in the theater is like on this side, what you don't see behind the camera is all my characters that I created in the movies. And on this side is a marquee of all these people who are in movies and shit who came from New Jersey.

So all these motherfuckers are from New Jersey. All those motherfuckers are from New Jersey. All those motherfuckers are from New Jersey. So it's like Christopher Reeves. For the people listening, Christopher Reeves in there. I can see a bunch of people. There's Christopher Reeves, there's Whitney Houston,

there's John Travolta, Michael Douglas, Joe Pesci, Brittany Murphy. Wait, Michael Douglas is Jersey? Isn't that fucking nuts, man? Isn't that nuts? I guess that's where he was born and raised

or whatever the fuck. Jesus. Of course, James Gandolfini. Chris Reeve was one I didn't know. We got Kate Micucci up there. So wait, that's an interesting question. Is Tony Soprano eligible to be on a Jersey Mount Rushmore even though he wasn't a real person?

Yes, hands down. He gave the state an identity for, in pop culture, in arguably some of the most important television pop culture of the last fucking 50 years. Yeah, it's the greatest show of all time. One of the greatest shows of all time, if not the greatest

show. So I would put, I would definitely include him. Fictional character. Yeah, that's a pretty good one. I'm vetoing Marty Brodeur, though. He's not... Come on. He belongs to Canada. You can't steal him from Canada. He gave you three cups. We have a giant statue devoted to him right in front of the rock,

right in front of the Prudential Center. I had seats behind the nets for the Kings for a couple years when... I got Kings tickets because it looked like there was a basketball lockout. I was like, I have to go to Lab Sports. It's home-wired. We saw him. He was old at this point. It was like a

Devils-Kings game. He was still doing Marty Bourdour things. I'm looking up. He was like 42 or 43. The life of a goalie is such a fucked up life when you watch it for three hours. This is what they do 82 games a year

and then potentially for four playoff rounds where it's just like they're being shot at. You know, they're on skates. Guys can be going by them, barreling into them. Some of the most elite athletes on the planet with shots that fucking have been measured or counted at 125

miles per hour, a vulcanized rubber puck. Thank God they got all that padding and shit. We met Quick a couple times. The Kings go away. There's these normal guys like, hey, how you doing? These guys are in the front line of fire. I was always

amazed by those. We have to go. Good luck. Good luck. Good luck with Clerks 3. So you got 13 cities left. Where can we find the, is there a website that has all the cities? If you go to clerks3.movie, it'll tell you what cities are left. It'll tell you where to find

it on home video. It's on iTunes and Amazon, all those places and stuff. All right, cool. It was good to finally do this. Thanks for all the entertainment over the years. It was a pleasure, man. I loved your interview with Affleck years ago, man. Oh, good.

So this was an absolute pleasure. Thanks for taking the time. All right, thank you. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Kevin Smith. Thanks to Peter Schrager. Thanks to Rob Mahoney. Thanks to Kyle Creighton for producing. Thanks to Dylan Mahoney. Thanks to Kyle Creighton for producing.

Thanks to Dylan Berkey. Thanks to Dylan Berkey a second time. And I will see you on this weekend, on Sunday with The Cuz. Don't forget Prestige TV Podcast. Putting up White Lotus, Episode 2, Me and Joanna,

right after that runs on HBS. There you go. Have a good weekend.