The Bill Simmons Podcast - A Celtics-Heat Rock Fight with Bill's Dad. Plus, Jalen Green Stops By and We Fix All-Star Weekend.

Episode Date: May 24, 2022

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by his Dad to discuss the Celtics' Game 4 win over the Heat, the lack of rest for players with only one day between conference finals games, series predictions, and more (1:29). Then, Bill talks with Jalen Green of the Houston Rockets about his rookie season, being on the court with some of his basketball idols, his friendship with Anthony Edwards, deciding between the G League and college, the Rockets’ no. 3 overall pick in the 2022 NBA draft, Jalen's goals for next season, tweaking All-Star Weekend, and more (43:28). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Jalen Green and Bill's Dad Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Must be legal drinking age. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. Rewatchables was postponed tonight because we're doing a special BS podcast, but we are running it on Tuesday this week. It is the 40th anniversary of a very, very, very famous movie that will hopefully inspire the Boston Celtics for the rest of the series because we need the help. Coming up, here's why we're doing a special one. My dad and I went to game four of Heat Celtics. We walked back from the arena and we turned on the mics and we did that.

And then as a little bonus, Jalen Green, Houston Rockets rookie. Yeah, he's coming on. We're going to talk basketball for like 40 minutes. So there you go. Little special Monday night podcast.

First, our friends from Pro Gym. Alright, it is 11 1125 Eastern Time. Taping with my dad, my 74-year-old dad. It's way past my bedtime. These games start after 830, and then I was like, Dad, we're going back, and we're going to tape a podcast. And he was like, cool. He's drinking a ginger ale.

You took some sort of pill. I don't know what was going on with that. We had to walk uphill back to Beacon Hill. You were a couple times. I don't know. I was worried you weren't going to make it. What a podcast for us. It was a difficult game. I mean, we were up by 30 and I was still worried.

We went to a rock fight. So, game four. Celtics come out. What was it? 21-1 at one point? Something like that? Something like that. 17-18-1. Took a screenshot of the scoreboard at one point. Yeah, it was 18-1.

That's what it was. The Heat were 1-15 to start the game. Our guy Derek White, the rollercoaster ride, I compared it to you. He's like a Red Sox reliever during a playoff run that every time he comes in, there's three guys on you. He's like a Red Sox reliever during a playoff run that every time he comes in, there's three guys on base. It's 32 pitch inning. Somehow he gets out of it. Yeah. You know, he hit his first three point shot and it looked like everything

had to be rosy the rest of the night. He hit his first seven points of the game. And then he missed seven straight three point shots. But he got, I think he was wide open. He was wide open. He was really one of the MVPs of the game. He was. By the end of the game, it looked like he was dragging it. It looked like he actually hurt his hamstring at the tail end. At the two minutes to go, they called a timeout

because he was holding on to his right hamstring. So not a good sign for Wednesday night. So going backwards, we're waiting all day to see who's going to play because these games are coming every 48 hours and it's become heroes out for the heat. We don't know if we're going to get smart. Robert Williams,

is Tatum going to play? Are all three going to be out? Are all three going to play? Or is Jimmy Butler, is he going to play? Right. So then all of a sudden, we're like an hour and a half from game time, Marcus Smart out. I didn't even hear that. I thought all three of them were going to play. But you and I, when we walked to the game, were saying, would we rather have Smart out or Robert Williams out?

As it turned out, Robert Williams had a terrific game. Well, I remember saying to you, I was optimistic about two things. One was the extender, Scott Foster. It was very nice to see him out there when we're behind in the series. It felt like he was an asset, and then we figured one of White and Pritchard had to play well. And if we could get one of those guys, we had a chance. And the extender had to do his job. Ironically, even though White kept missing all those shots, he was doing a lot of other things. He was rebounding.

He made some terrific passes in traffic. Good defense. He can't dribble, but we don't have anybody on our team who can dribble. So that's not really anything that can highlight White. I thought Pritchard, though, played a really good game when he came in, too. Yeah, Pritchard came in with some confidence. Robert Williams was fantastic. I mean, the story of the game was our defense in the first half

was the defense that this team... You were going to the games. You were telling me. It was February, March, April, the way they would play defense and how they could just lock teams down for stretches, not just for four minutes, for like an entire half. That's what they were doing. Well, the big, I mean, I started, obviously, at the beginning of the season,

the new coach put a defensive strategy in of switching. And it was not working. They just didn't get it in the beginning. And inevitably, there was always somebody open because somebody didn't make the correct switch. And then the light bulb went off the end of January and they've been terrific ever since. When did you start believing in the team? It was like, it was like right around after the all-star break, right? Yeah. I'd say beginning of March. Yeah. Well, a big piece was Robert Williams. You saw it tonight. We saw the full Rob Williams. He was incredible in the first half, couple alley-oops, challenging everything. Miami, all the free throws were on the Boston side.

They were a little more aggressive on the basket, but Miami, they were settling for two point. I think I saw it halftime. I was looking at Twitter, like 30% of their shots were long twos, which is exactly what you want. And that's the Robert Williams impact. I mean, he intimidates them from driving to the basket. Right. And Butler, there's a lot of front rim stuff just in general in this game.

Butler shot three for 14. Yeah, Butler looked like luggage. Strange game. Lowry had nothing. No. The most interesting thing because we went to Saturday and I talked about it

on the pod yesterday with Rosillo, but Saturday was a football game and Miami was really loud. There were two things in particular. P.J. Tucker was just allowed to do whatever he wanted, and bam, there was a lot of moving picks, semi-moving picks. He was just getting away with stuff,

and they weren't even trying to do it in the first half, which we thought was interesting because we just assumed the refs were like, hey, you're not doing that stuff this game. Don't even do it. We're going to call it every time. So you could tell they scaled it back. And then the third quarter, they tried to ratchet it up again. And Foster was like, no, the extender came in.

He was like, no, no, moving pick. No, P.J. Tucker, you can't do that. And P.J. Tucker, I thought was going to hit somebody. And Adebayo got called for a pick as well. And the things that they never got called for on Saturday, you made a comment that it's almost like he went to the bench and said

you cannot play like you did on Saturday. Right. It's like... He was like a sheriff. I was watching him before the game and he just kind of stands there at midcourt and he's like, your favorite actor is Clint Eastwood. He had kind of a Clint Eastwood vibe to him. Like, I'm here to settle all the stuff that should not have happened on Saturday night.

We will not be doing that in this game. Well, there was one point early on when Lowry, who complains about everything, every single play he's complaining. And Foster just gave him the evil eye. And that was the end of Lowry. I never saw him again. And we should mention, we've been on the other side of Scott Foster games. We can't stand usually when he's the referee.

Yeah. But tonight, we were hoping he would be the referee. Remember game five of the 2008 finals when we were in LA and we thought we had a chance to see them clinch in the LA? Scott Foster was like, no, it's actually going to go back to Boston. No, he was extending the series.

Yeah. Well, so defensively, the Celtics were great. Well, the one thing- Where was that effort in game three? I thought you and I, I think, agreed the most valuable player, even though he only had five or six points, was Al Horford. Al Horford was Al Horford. He was, he was everywhere.

And he was getting rebounds and pushing immediately. They were, they were, it looked like they were trying to. Well, ironically, he was the only one who could dribble. He's dribbling up the court. He's not losing it. Yeah. He had five points, 13 rebounds, three assists, four blocks. Yeah.

The blocks were big. assists, four blocks. Yeah, the blocks were big. He had four blocks. Williams had two. In general, they had 11 blocks, which is a lot. Miami only had two. And the big thing, the defense and then the turnovers, at least in the first half, they weren't turning over the ball. And that's how Miami was getting a lot of points in game three.

Yeah, they had a stretch. I'd say the last four minutes of third quarter where we just stopped playing or we took quick shots. The crowd was dead. Yeah, the crowd was dead and it was like people knew we were going to win

and it was time to go home. Yeah. Because you had four Milwaukee games and all those were worse. And then you had, you know, game three and four of this,

but pretty, all pretty close together. Six high intensity playoff games combined with the 830. So the crowd was into it, but I felt like in the second half, big lead, the crowd kind of died, the team died. And then Miami was just kind of lingering, but Larry Butler had nothing. But then Oladipo carried them for a little while in the first half. In the second half, Martin came in. He started making shots. Vincent made some shots, and they were just kind of hanging around, but they could never get it going. Yeah, they never got below 20, though. Yeah.

They still seemed to be playing very hard, but that first half, they couldn't hit anything. Yeah, I was texting a couple people at halftime, and I was saying, the Heat aren't rolling over in this game. They wanted... I felt like they thought they could get this game, especially without Smart, and they were really aggressive, but the Celtics' D was great.

They really just won this game in the first quarter. I mean, the rest of the game... Well, the rest of the game... Second quarter, we won by six. We probably lost the second half. We lost the second half. Yeah. I mean, the rest of the game, second quarter, we won by six. We probably lost the second half. We lost the second half. Yeah. But again, our starters weren't playing. Their bench is deeper than our bench.

And that's what happened in the fourth quarter. Well, and they have, they didn't use all their tricks in this game. I think you made the key point. Even though I thought Miami played really hard, I thought they were trying to win, but they kept a couple arrows in the quiver. They got the game they wanted. Yeah. You know, they have the seventh game if it goes that long.

Does home court even matter in this series, though? Well, maybe we'll find out more on Wednesday night. I mean, we beat them once. Obviously, in a 2-2 series, when they have the seventh game, we have to beat them again. Is that your expert analysis? Yeah, that's my expert analysis. I thought Mark Jackson was here.

What time is it? Well, they had, the funniest thing is Struis, who hit the all-time dagger shot. Right in our face. Right in our face. We had the direct angle on it to basically swing game three. I still can't believe he made that. And today he was

absolutely destroyed. He was 0 for 7. But it wasn't even that. Every time he was on the court. Oh, they're hunting him. They hunted him. Oh my god. So he's 0 for 7 offensively getting hunted like he was in, what was that movie, The Hunt? A couple years ago, that Blumhouse movie?

He was minus 33 in 15 minutes. Oh, I didn't even know that. Really? So they played him off the court. Robinson comes in. We hit four threes, I think.

But all, all non-pressure into the game. Garbage time. But, you know, we thought he had Darren in the headlights

when it was like an actual meaningful part of the game. But maybe he got going in garbage time. Well, yeah, but it was against the subs. When he was in there and we had our starters, we were hunting either Robinson or Struess on defense. Every time either Tatum or Brown made the switch, that's the guy they wanted guarding them. And they destroyed,

although Brown had a, Brown's shooting night was very weird, wasn't it? Yeah, Brown was rough. He sometimes just has like shit quarters. You know how in football, they have- Two turnovers and two fouls in like six minutes.

Right. Their running backs go through like the gauntlet to try to make sure they can hold on to the ball. Yeah. They should do that with Brown in basketball. I've never seen anything like it. Yeah, the Heat just dive at his knees when he's putting the ball on the ground.

You see that. And it's every guy on the team. It's not just the old people. They're all diving, trying to tip it. He was pretty bad, but he was playing hard. And Tatum... How many turnovers for Brown and Tatum tonight? Brown had one turnover.

Tatum had three. White had three and it felt like 100. I thought Brown had 100. Sometimes he would regain the dribble and pass, but... Tatum, even though he wasn't shooting threes, and we didn't feel like like I don't know how much

people could see on TV but he was doing a lot of stuff with his shoulder he was raising his he kept raising his shoulder and shaking it and shaking his hand

almost like when you have a stinger he has a stinger yeah but I'm trying to explain it to the listeners like when you I don't know

you hit your funny bone or something you start shaking your arm to try to make it stop. He kept doing that every time there was a dead whistle or something. And he kept putting his right arm above his head, trying to stretch it out. But he played really well, except you could tell his threes,

he didn't have the same kind of release. But everything else was... I think he had two threes that were air balls, which he never ever does. And they were doing some stuff. They were doing... I think the big two threes that were air balls, which he never, ever does. And they were doing some stuff. They were doing, I think the big change they made schematically was, it was a lot of like side to side stuff and handoff stuff and going left to right or right to left, trying to get different guys on him until basically poor Struis, who, by the way, we're trashing Struis.

We're literally not trashing him. He was bad today. He's probably hit like 10 threes in game five. I fully expect him to have like 30 points. The one thing that was nice to see with the Celts, there was a period where Miami tried to get back in the game by going zone. Yeah. And they killed us two years ago in the bubble when they went to zone.

And we handled it really well. Yeah. They had a tendency to put Tatum in the middle or Horford in the middle. Yeah, we were taking like 15 footers. Yes. And they quickly went out of the zone. And then we were getting little alley-oops from that too, which I enjoyed. Yes, I enjoyed that too. But then third quarter, Rob Williams, who was all over the place, seemed like he landed

a little funny on an alley-oop.-oop and i was like oh boy yeah and you can see him he gets he gets like this weird grimace and he'll look down his knee he'll look up and he runs then you see the whole coaching staff kind of looking at him and you know i think and then we never saw him again except he came back out to the bench with a machine on his right right leg right knee yeah i put a picture on my Instagram stories of smart in street clothes next to Robert Williams, who had a 25 pound clock on his knee. I don't even know what the thing did. And that's the problem with- And we were saying, get him out the moment that- We were. The problem with every other night. I mean, there's no time to recuperate

for either team, obviously, but we seem to have more injuries at the moment. I think this is a problem for the league. Haralabab was the first one who was saying this on my pod a few weeks ago that he thought the scheduling stuff was too big of an ask for if you have situations like what we had here where, you know, especially the front rim stuff, it was just, it wasn't like a great basketball game. But I can see the strategy of, you know, we'll keep the momentum.

We'll have one series, one night. But it's kind of blowing up in their faces with Golden State probably sweeping that series. So now Golden State's going to sit back waiting for the winner of Boston, Miami, who are beating each other up. Right. And still we're going every other night. If it were up to me, if I was the czar of this,

I don't think we should have played that Tuesday after the Sunday. I would make it where it has to be three days between the series. We should have done Wednesday, Friday, Sunday, if we're going to do every other day. And if you're going to do every other day, I would take a break after a game. I would have an extra day between four and five. Yeah, I've heard you talk about that.

Yeah, I think that if you're just like, you know, is this a product? Do you want this to be a good product for the fans? Or do you want to watch everybody front rim threes and twos for, which is what Tatum was doing front rimming all night long. Cause we usually love game fours. Yeah. Those are usually like game four and game five are usually my favorite games

of the series. This was like not a great game. now we're, I wish we did have a, uh, an extra day because now we're two and two, you and I were saying on the walk back, that's probably where we should be. Yeah, I think that's the right.

I think the Celtics are a little better, but I think Miami is a little smarter. Yeah. And a little tougher. Tougher depending on how the refs are calling the game. Right. And that's the problem with this is if it's really going to depend on that first quarter and who's calling the game and what they're allowing. Well, Tucker was maybe the MVP of the game on Saturday night. He was a no-show tonight because they wouldn't let him be aggressive. Yeah, I was trying to tell Rossello what that was like in person, that alpha male performance by Tucker. It was really impressive to watch.

It was impressive. It wasn't the same tonight. And by the fourth quarter, as everybody saw, Tatum had deer in the headlight. Right. And was in a fog. Then he came out tonight very aggressive. Yeah, I would call him purposeful. Yes.

And even though he wasn't hitting the three, and I don't know what he was, one for six, something like that. He was doing all the other things. Yeah, he was eight for 16 and he got to the free throw line 16 times. 16 times, wow. And I felt, listen, I know the Heat fans, it was 38 to 14 free throw advantage. I thought most of them were like legit fouls. There was only two of them where I was like, oh, they might've gifted them on that one. I don't want to sound like a homer, but I'll often be at a game and it will strike me that one team is just shooting all the free throws and getting all the,

it didn't seem that way tonight. No. I didn't even know that disparity was, uh, was there tonight. Well, and you look at the shot chart and Miami was just all long twos and threes. So you're not getting free throw shooting that. I guess the big thing, if I'm looking at it, actually, let's take a break and we'll talk about it from Miami's side. Go yard all summer long with $5 Dinger Tuesdays on FanDuel Sportsbook.

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Connecticut, 888-789-7777. In Colorado, Iowa, Indiana, Illinois, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Virginia, 1-800-GAMBLER. In Michigan, 800-270-7117. 1-877-770-STOP. In Louisiana, 1-800-270-7117 for confidential help in Michigan. 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York. Tennessee red line is 800-889-9789. And in West Virginia, 1800-GAMgamber.net. Yeah, if I'm looking at it from Miami's side, I mean, they really miss Hero, who, you know, intermittently just murders us. Not every game, but like every other game

and can carry them for quarters. And he fell tonight because he can create his own stuff. Lowry was honestly bad in both games. Lowry was not the same guy we saw Saturday night. But I didn't even think Saturday night. I know he was doing Lowry stuff, but it wasn't like he was destroying us offensively or anything. But he was in charge.

He was. That's fair. And tonight he wasn't in charge. Again, the refs did not allow them to play the kind of style they wanted to play. And that affected Lowry and it affected Tucker. You know, it also affected Butler. He had a weird game. He just didn't see my cat's legs.

Yeah, Lowry was four for 11 on Saturday night. He was one for six today. Yeah. You know, I know Butler obviously didn't play the second half Saturday. He didn't have that aggressiveness or first step tonight. I thought he was a little afraid of Robert Williams. He was afraid to go at him, it seemed like. Didn't you think?

Yeah, I did. But I didn't know whether that might be because his knee was hurting. And Oladipo, who really was hitting some shots there for, I would say, about four or five minutes when they couldn't get offense from anybody. He's weird, though. Sometimes he looks like the old Oladipo, and then other times he's going down the lane and he's got no burst at all. He had like two or three plays today where he was going to the basket

and ended up either just got blocked or he just kind of threw it over his head. I thought he lost his legs in the second half. Yeah, he was bad in the second half. They played, because of Hero being out, he played too his legs in the second half. Yeah, he was bad in the second half. They played because of Hero being out. He played too many minutes in the first half, it looked like.

Yeah, he played 30 minutes. He finished seven for 16, but he made, he must have made like his first four. Right. So that,

that tailed off. Yeah, he kept them at least somewhat in the ball game in the first half. And it was another like not awesome Grant Williams game too, who I think that Milwaukee series, there was a lot of miles on him.

He played 37 minutes tonight. It was one for eight. Missed wide open threes. But defensively, he was doing good stuff. Yeah, he did miss wide open threes. This is a funny matchup for him. I'm not sure they know who he should be guarding because Miami...

They've been putting him on Bam. They've been putting him on Jimmy Butler. And he's too short for Bam. And he's not quick enough for Jimmy Butler. So he's kind of out there trying to guard these three-point shooters. And he looks out of place a little bit. Playing hard. Playing hard.

Talking the whole time yeah Lowry I don't know if the TV cameras caught it but Old Depot was going to the basket pretty hard in the third quarter I think it was the third quarter yeah no it was the second quarter and Grant kind of gave him a little push in the back

and they called it and the Miami bench was pissed so Grant started talking to the bench and talking to Lowry and they were going back and forth. Grant just talks to everybody. He comes over. He starts talking to Ime. And you could just... Rizzo and I talked about this the other day. I heard you talking about it. Yeah. Ime's ready for

a vacation from Grant, I think. I think after seven months at Grant, I think he could maybe take a holiday. I heard you describe him as the annoying younger brother. Yeah. He's kind of annoying to watch, actually. He does some good stuff, obviously.

But he's one of those guys you're glad he's on your team. You're glad he's on your team. You'd hate him if he was on the other team. Yeah, that's very true. I don't... I mean, 49 years you've had Celtics season tickets. I don't think we've ever quite had a guy like him. These high energy... He's almost like in hockey where he's had Celtics season tickets. I don't think we've ever quite had a guy like him. These high energy, he's almost like in hockey

where he's like the, he's high, these annoying hockey players that we've heard before. It's ironic, the one player that comes to mind, although he played a different position than Danny Ainge. Right, right. He was annoying, but you were glad he was on your team. Yeah, and everyone was mad at him every game. Yes.

All the fans in the other stadiums couldn't stand him. Yeah. Well, and then the Derek White piece of all this, we mentioned him earlier. The trade of first rounder and a pick swap. He's just a heckle and jide or trick or treat. Heckle and jide or Jekyll and Hyde? Jekyll and Hyde, yeah. It's now 1147.

It's kind of late. I'm going to have to call an ambulance. I've never seen somebody in the same game where you're like, oh, he's got it tonight. He's so confident. We thought he did, didn't we? And then he'll have a stretch where you're like, oh my God, he can't dribble over midcourt.

Oh my God. I know that little runner's not going to go in. And then it'll be like, no, he's actually going to throw this awesome alley-oop. And oh, he made a really good drive. He's just all over the place. He's a heart attack. He is like the, he's the pennant race reliever

that you love and you feel like you're going to get out of the jam, but you also have to take the heart medication. We've had guys like that too. Tony Allen. Oh, Trick or Treat Tony. Yeah. That's who you nicknamed him. We've had Trick or Treat players before, but this guy does some good things.

Yeah. Except when he's shooting, which is kind of ironic for a basketball player. He's a better shooter than this, though. I don't fully understand what's going on. During the season, his runners often would go in. They're not going in in the playoffs. Well, listen, I mean, he basically had a Marcus Smart game, right?

He had 13, 8, and 6. He had three steals. He had three turnovers, and he missed almost every three he took that's like that was basically a Marcus Sparta

person if Marcus is having a bad shooting game right I guess he's been a little more reliable from there

so the other thing is Tice basically they're just not going to play Tice in this series well yeah it was two for three tonight

right in garbage time and then Pritchard was was pretty good too. It seems like, I'm just trying to map out in my head game seven. Yeah. Assuming we can get to a game seven, which I feel like we're going to split the next two somehow.

So you're not confident about game five? I just think this is going seven. Yeah. And especially with the injuries and God only knows who's, I mean, does Marcus even play game five? Game five's two days from now. I know.

It's Wednesday. Yeah. And Robert Williams with that machine on his leg and... Robert Williams had a thing on his leg that looked like... I've never seen that thing before. At least he came out.

I mean, he didn't even show up for the game Saturday. If somebody showed up at your house with the thing he had on his knee, I would assume like something horrible had happened. I would assume that they just had knee replacement surgery. Right. It's like one of your friends from college. My brother Bob had both knees replaced. Yeah, that wasn't great.

But his spirit seemed okay. I don't know. It seems like a game-to-game pain thing for him. No, that wasn't great. But his spirit seemed okay. I don't know. It seems like a game-to-game pain thing for him. No, that's a good point, though. He was joking and laughing and dancing a little on the sidelines with the machine on his leg. Miami, what was your take from watching them for two games from a team chemistry standpoint?

Very businesslike. Well, again, they got the game they needed. Yeah. And I think, although they did try hard tonight, when the shots weren't falling, they got the game they needed. And I think they backed off. Well, they benched.

We figured we wouldn't see Bam and Butler. And we didn't. And Lowry in the fourth, which we did not. Well, I have no idea what's going to happen in this series. You know. You could tell me. Yeah. Well, you go and I'm going to look on fandom.

Well, I was watching Smart on the sidelines and he was walking around okay. It wasn't like he was on crutches. No, maybe he does play Wednesday night. And maybe that machine does the trick. That was regenerating Time Lord's episode. Yeah, and maybe they just tape up Derek White's hamstring and he's okay. Celtics are minus 155 for the series, even though two of the next three are in Miami. That's very strange, given that, again, like you just said two of the next three are in Miami. That's very strange, given that, again,

like you just said, two of the three are in Miami. When you think about it... You know who had the... Of all the players tonight who had the weirdest game? Because he killed us in game three. At a bile. I don't...

He had a poor game one, a poor game two. He was a monster in game three,, he had a poor game one, a poor game two. He was a monster in game three and he had a poor game four. It's very strange for a guy that killed us in the bubble two years ago. It felt like they found something in game three when they were giving him space and isoing him. But the Celtics, I couldn't even totally tell what they did or whether Miami just wasn't really doing that.

I thought Robert Williams made a difference in how... Made him not want to do that. Yes. Yeah. And he didn't go to the rim. Right. I mean, it's amazing what an intimidating player at the rim Robert Williams has become.

Yeah, in person. It's pretty impressive. He feels like Embiid-esque almost. Like he's got that much size and wingspan where it just seems like he's everywhere for a couple stretches. With hops that Embiid doesn't really have. Yeah. And obviously he can't shoot anywhere away from the basket,

but they don't want him to. They don't need him to. Did you think after they beat Milwaukee that the Celtics were going to win the title? I think I said to you if we're healthy. Yeah. And I've always thought with this team, because watching them all year long, when they had their entire team, they were almost unbeatable.

But whenever they had one of their starters out, they weren't the same. It's like the ball movement wasn't the same and the defense, the shifting and the assignments weren't covered the same way. So that was always my hesitation about this team. Too many injuries during the second half of the year. did you feel when when did you think Tatum could be a guy like a guy on the short list like Russell and I

talked about like at what point during the season was it the Brooklyn game because I think he went to that game yeah in March

when he was just toe to toe with Durant yeah I mean there were series of games where he was unstoppable and because you've been to be fair you've been pretty frustrated with him over the years yeah I mean there were a series of games where he was unstoppable and cause you've been

to be fair you've been pretty frustrated with him over the years cause you don't like the the pull ups and you don't like I don't like very frequently

I don't like his shot selection I think he he compromised he I wish he went to the basket more. The stuff he did today is the type of game we want from him. A lot of free throw attempts. Right.

Really smart choices. And ironically, yeah, I agree. But why did he play that way? Well, because his shoulder is stung and he can't, I mean, he had two air balls. He can't shoot the three. So he's forced to do other things. I wish he played that way all the. He can't shoot the three. So he's forced to do other things.

I wish he played that way all the time. Yeah, it's funny. He's got to be one of the best seven, eight players in the league at this point. But it still feels like there's ways for him to get better. I looked up at the scoreboard and you mentioned, I think he had 24 points. I don't know. We were up by 24 and he had 24 points. Yeah. I didn't know he had 24 points. It was a quiet. We were up by 24 and he had 24 points. I didn't know he had 24 points.

It was a quiet 24. It was a quiet 24. And I, and I also forgot or didn't realize how often he was at the foul, the free throw line. Yeah. Um, because the threes just weren't, I mean, he was over five at one point, I think. Uh, but you know, he, he did, he did, he played a game that I wish he played more frequently, going to the basket or… This is some team.

Yeah. I've just never seen a team like this that the highs are so high, the lows are so low. There's just obvious flaws all over the place. Well, look at this series. Game two. We looked like the super team. I think we're up by 25 at half. Game three, they're up 25 at half.

Game four tonight, we're up 25 at half. Those are weird splits for teams that are pretty evenly matched. I think it goes seven. Miami will turn that into a rock fight. It's going to almost be like an attrition thing. Who's going to be healthy? Each side has probably seven guys they're going to trust. What is the health and shape of those seven guys in that game?

We're going Wednesday, Friday, Sunday. I know. If Miami wins Wednesday night, can I request Scott Foster to referee on Friday night? Can I just stay here? Can we go to the hotel suite? I mean, he can stay at my place. We've got an extra bedroom.

Well, I mean, refs we don't want to see tomorrow night. Tony Brothers, please, no. Cainford Sherald was there tonight. I wasn't excited, but he was pretty quiet tonight. He was very quiet. Sheriff Scott Foster, I think, told him this is my show.

I think so. My Tony Brothers I think could be bad for both sides. I know he kills us, but I think he kills everybody. Mark Davis, I feel like we never win when Mark Davis is there. I think the stats back that up, that we don't win with him. It never feels great.

When you look at some of the stats of how we do with certain referees, it's amazing how consistently inconsistent they are. Yeah. 49 years for you. This is my 49th season I was fortunate enough to get my ticket in 1973 and that first season I saw a championship with guys

some of the guys are not alive anymore like John Havlicek our guy John Havlicek, Jojo White yeah we lost Jojo yeah so next year is the 50 you still have a pretty good memory for all the different seasons though Yeah, we lost JoJo. Yeah. Yeah, so next year is the 50. You still have a pretty good memory for all the different seasons, though. Fortunately, I do.

Knock on wood. Fortunately, my memory is still there. And you were at so many of the games. I mean, that first season, obviously. I don't think I went to a lot of them. I was only at four. You went to very few. I think the next year I started going. Well, obviously certainly two years later

because you went to almost all the playoff games. Yeah, I went to the triple overtime game, all that stuff. And then we all the way through, man, it's been a long time. Half a century for you. I remember having a teacher conference and the teacher saying, you know, your son is

barely awake when he comes to school in the morning. He might have been to the Celtic game last night. Well, the triple OT one, we got home at like 1.30 in the morning.

Yeah. I don't get that 8.30 starts. I don't know why they do that. Why don't they steal from football? Football, when they have like the Super Bowl, it starts at 6.30. Right.

East Coast time. You said it was because of Europe. It starts at 6.30. Right. East Coast time. You said it was because of Europe. It can't be because of Europe. It's four in the morning in Europe. Yeah, I think that was a bad take. Yeah. I assumed it was because of West Coast. We had some people

that were just throwing it down in our section tonight. One guy made us stand up 10 times. That guy. Well, not only that, but every time he came back, he had two drinks and they weren't beers. No. They were cocktails. Oh, yeah. That guy. Well, not only that, but every time he came back, he had two drinks. And they weren't beers.

No. They were cocktails. Oh, yeah. That guy was tying one on. Yeah, there was some alcohol use in the States today. But it was annoying a little bit. The other thing that's annoying, much more annoying, is the beginning of the third quarter. When nobody's back in their seats.

Nobody's back in their seats. Suddenly, the game is being played. Yeah. It's a critical time of the game because one team can make a run and it's hard to pay attention. Yeah, I think halftime should be longer. I would get rid of one of the TV timeouts and I'd make halftime longer because it just doesn't seem like halftime is long enough. People are trying to get food and drink and they're waiting in lines and they can't get back to their seat.

Well, I would do it like they do at the ballet or the symphony. If you're not in your seat when the third quarter starts, you're not allowed back in. You're not allowed back in. We don't leave. We stay in our seats. Yeah, we go anywhere. Well, so what's your prediction?

Do we make the finals? Are we getting a Warriors-Celtics final? Steph Curry? My prediction is we win the next two games. Really? I'm not going to predict against my own team. But do you really think we can win the next two games? If all our players play.

Yeah. It does feel like the ceiling of our team is higher. Ceiling is higher if we're all playing. But if it's going to be an ugly, everybody's injured

game seven, I like Miami's chances in that game because those guys have been in a lot of games. Although, you look at our team,

we have guys now who have been in a lot of playoff games like Tatum and Brown and Smart and Horford. Those guys have all been in, you know, in a lot of playoff games, like Tatum and Brown and Smart and Horford. Those guys have all been in a lot of it. Miami does also, though. Yeah.

I'm just saying we're not like a young team. I feel like we do have experience. I hope we're not in this stretch now. Robert Williams can't play Wednesday night because he has to rest his knee because there's not enough time between games. Right. And that's what my worry is.

And then I don't feel so confident. I don't know the status. You know, watching the replay from Saturday of Marcus Smart's injury. Right. That ankle took a 90 degree turn. Can we talk about your wife's text during that? She texted. By the way, she's a doctor.

I know. She's watching on TV and she texted that she thought Marcus broke a doctor I know she's watching on TV and she texted that she thought he Marcus broke his tibia and fibula yeah

she said she said he broke two bones so that text is sitting in your phone yeah and then 90 seconds later Marcus comes out

he's back in the game I mean reminiscent of Paul Pierce coming out in the wheelchair yeah she was like tibia and fibula.

Double break. And we had to believe her because we didn't know. He wasn't out there yet. Let's end on Al Horford. Okay. Terrific game. So Al Horford, we signed him in 2016. It's the first free agent the Celtics have signed.

It felt like 20 years. It was a huge signing. It just felt like no free agents ever wanted to come here. It was always a big topic of dialogue here. He comes here. We're in a lot of good games and runs. Beloved teammate. And then we have this terrible Kyrie

Irving season that you had to go to the games. You started giving away your tickets near the end of that. They were hard to sell. Yeah, they were hard to sell. Or, if I remember correctly, then Al signs with Philly. Which is shocking. It's the second signing that really bugged me.

The other one, obviously, was Ray Allen signing with Miami. Yeah. And I understand the money part. I mean, they offered him a deal he couldn't turn down money-wise, but it just seemed like a betrayal to some extent because he was such a great teammate. Yeah, but I think the Celtics, like, they didn't really fully go after him. I guess not.

And I think he took it personally, which I understand from his side. But yeah, it was like, wow, you're going there? Yeah, you're going there. Johnny Damon was the worst one. Yeah, he was the worst. You know the Yankees? Well, Ellsbury too. Yeah, but we were kind of psyched that they signed him.

We were kind of glad we stuck him with Ellsbury. But, you know, I love to hear Horford talk this year about how grateful he is and appreciative he is that he has the love of basketball back. Yeah. Because he's playing with a team he really enjoys playing with. He's appreciated by the team and the fans. Fans love him. I would say he's way up there for popular Celtics.

He does this thing, and I don't know if you can get it on TV, but he really interacts with the crowd. He'll have a block, and he'll walk over to a section, almost like a professional wrestler, almost like what KG used to do. And he'll put his,

he'll try to get the fans, fans, you know, start cheering. We want it louder. We want it louder. Yeah. And I think he is an absolute beloved teammate. I mean, those guys.

He was a monster on the boards tonight. Yeah, he was great. I agree with you about it. His teammates respect and love him. Yeah. He's great. I agree with you about his teammates. Respect and love him. He's a real leader of the team. You know, Presti, the OKC GM who went to Emerson

and then is a Massachusetts guy. He keeps Al on ice all year, right? Al gets to rest his knees and then he sends him to us. It was a nice little gift by Presti. It really was. I hadn't thought about it that way. Yeah, it was nice that he did them to us. It was a nice little gift by Preston. It really was. I appreciate that. I hadn't thought about it that way. It was nice that he did that for us.

It wasn't a gift. But he sends us a rested Al. I mean, he did. Yeah, we gave him a first-round pick. Yeah, and he likes first-round pick. We also gave him Kemba Walker. Yeah, that's a tough one. Yeah, Al's just such a unique player.

That's why I think the Chet Holmgren-Al comparisons, even though they have totally different bodies, the whole thing, but I do think if Chet is successful, I don't think it's going to be in the way people think. I think it's going to be in like an Al Horford way, like 17 points, 14 rebounds, three blocks, just fun to play with,

doesn't need the ball that much, good energy. That's going to be how he succeeds. I hope so. I mean, it would be nice to see somebody else come in and play like that because... He's so unique. His unselfish play is not the norm anymore. Everybody wants theirs. And he doesn't worry about his stats.

No. No, he does whatever it takes. I'm glad he's back. It's been a great Celtic. All right, Dad. It was weird two games. I can't say I'll be telling your grandkids about them, your great grandkids. The high and the low actually was the low and the high. We got to get a good game at some point in this series. See, that's why I think game five is going to be a rock fight.

You think Harrow will play? I assume Smart will play. Who knows with Rob? Maybe we'll get everybody back, but everybody... I hope everybody plays. And that's the way it should be. You know, both teams with full teams out there and fair refereeing.

All right, try to make it... Just try to make it through the next couple of playoff games. I was a little worried about you today. I don't want to have to wheel you out when they honor you for your 50th year. Take it older and I'm wheeling you out. You know, these 845 starts. All right, dad.

Thanks. All right. Thanks. A lot of fun, son. Glad you were here. Thank you. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance.

Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too. You won't win the Super Bowl, but your fundraising will support mental health, suicide prevention,

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Just search Movember. All right, Jalen Green is here from the Houston Rockets. As you know, I have good success with people named Jalen. My old partner, Jalen Rose, the original Jalen. Wait, how did you, how are you Jalen? That's how I named after him.

My mom named me after him. My mom was a big basketball head. He thinks he's the first Jalen and all the evidence says he is. Yeah, in my book he is, so yeah. Now there's like a Jalen every year in the draft. It's becoming like John. Yeah, very popular name. So you finish your rookie season.

I voted for you for second team. I put Herb Jones over you. I made a joke about it. And then everybody tried to make it seem like there was beef. I thought you had a good season. I was into it. So I want us to just talk hoops. And then this can be the story coming out of it, is that we had a good season. I was into it. So I just, I want us to just talk hoops. And then this can be the story coming out of it is that we had a nice hoops talk.

When you really went on my radar last year was that second Lakers game, the overtime game, you're going against LeBron who you're almost as old as his entire career. I think you're born in 2002. He comes into the league in 2003. You just seem super comfortable as that game went along. And it was one of those things. I think you're born in 2002. He comes into the league in 2003. You just seemed super comfortable as that game went along. And it was one of those things. I think you have to have it as a rookie. You have to have a couple of those games when you kind of levitate above the moment, which I felt like you did.

You did that a bunch of times down the stretch. But did you feel like that was the most important game you played this year? Yeah, I think that's where it started my whole trend upward a little bit from my confidence and everything. You know, me on a big stage with the big name players, you tend to get a little bit more do stuff and stuff.

So, yeah, I think those were one of my favorite games this year. Were you talking to any crafter in that game or no? Yeah, I talked to a little bit, but, you know, AD and Brian showed up, so it was cool.

So you, growing up, you're a huge Hoop fan and then you're playing and LeBron is there the whole time. And by the time, I don't know,

you're 10, he's LeBron. He's won multiple titles. He's won multiple MVPs. And then now you're on the court with him. And you're basically like two years older

than his oldest son. Does he talk to to you is it like a big brother little brother thing like what goes walk me through how that goes uh I've had one conversation with him when I was going through like my um my whole draft process figuring out who I'm signing winning stuff for agency wise um I had one conversation with him. It turned out we had similar backgrounds in a way. So he was just giving me a lot of advice. So yeah, I think you would say it's like a big bro type of thing, but

we don't really talk too often. What about on the court though? What about as you're kicking his butt in that overtime game? Nah, he's not saying nothing to me. He's not saying nothing to me. I don't think he would say anything. I'm pretty sure he's locked in. You know, he got takeover mode. So, he's not saying nothing to me. He's not saying anything to me. I don't think he would say anything. I'm pretty sure he's locked in. He got takeover mode.

He's trying to lock in and get the dub. You go to the NBA, there's bodies that you're going against. LeBron's a good example. He's 6'8", 270. You've just come out of playing high school and you're in the G League for a year. What were some of the guys that you were like,

first time you play Giannis? Were you just like, oh my God, how am I even in the same universe with this person? This year, I didn't get a chance to play Giannis because the time when we was playing, I was out 15 games for my injury. Someone that you could relate with that is Joe A&B. I had got him in a post one time.

I was trying to hold my ground and he just took one drill, put his shoulder down, just moved me and dunked me. That was the first time I ever felt like Lil Boyd in this situation. It was crazy.

Yeah, he's a legit 7'2". Yeah. For 300. There's some of these dudes that's the thing like I met I wasn't able to go to basketball for two years

obviously because the pandemic and then going back to the games and you just you forget how jaw-dropping some of the athletes are and some of the bodies are right like I was just going to these

Celtics Bucks games just watching Giannis just stroll around and it's like Jesus this guy's seven feet tall he's completely ripped he can

jump from the foul line i can't believe this what uh who is like your role model as you're coming up because like you're like the prototypical two guard right you're in that mj kobe kind of kind of class same type of body same kind of explosiveness so who's your guy uh i think you just said them both right now mj and kobe um mj always been one since like growing up like as a kid i always had nj posters stuff like that always wore jordans um but it didn't start until like middle of my high school year i'll say like my junior year that I started really falling in love with Kobe just because I started watching more videos about his mindset, his mentality, how he approached the game, how he carried himself, and just always putting in the work and stuff.

So that was the time I started to really lock in mentally, try to get stronger physically, and Kobe is one of the people I was following during that time. Did you steal any moves from him? Yeah, I worked on a lot of postgame, like fadeaway shots and stuff out of the block coming up through high school. I haven't got to showcase them yet in the league.

I mean, I had a couple of turnaway jumpers, but I haven't got my postgame. I'm waiting until I get a little bit stronger. Right. Well, you had the face-up game. Yeah, you're I mean, what? You'll have 25 more pounds of muscle five, six years from now, I would say. Something like that. That's the thing with Kobe. Kobe was

especially those first few years on the Lakers very similar to you. Like, everything was going forward, going forward. And then mid-2000s all of a sudden he added this physicality to his game. LeBron did the same thing. Yeah. There are changes

once you slow the game down. Well, you know what happens. You play in these playoff games and the better the defenses are, there's no path to the rim anymore and you have to have that plan B. LeBron really didn't have it, I don't think,

until 2012, 2013. And now it's become such a big part of it. Now he just overpowers people. Yeah. Who else really knocked your socks off? Because you go from watching these guys on TV to all of a sudden you're playing

games with these guys. They're jumping out of your TV and they're going against you. Was there anybody other than like Embiid? Was there anybody you were like, oh my god, this guy. Kyrie Irving. Really? guy? Kyrie Irving. Really? Explain. And Kyrie Irving is one of my big boys. He's been communicating with me here and there

all since high school. He was just making everything. Stopping pop threes, getting to the rim. You know, he's so wiggly down here. It's like hard to guard. He was just, everything you see on TV, all the highlights and stuff,

it was very, it was showcased right in front of me. So, it was just crazy to see. Did you, like your team wasn't good last year. Did you feel like, were there teams,

there's certain nights when teams just seem like they underestimated you and it was advantage for you guys? Or how did you feel like you were regarded by the rest of the league? The team? In the beginning, I think they played back to my drive

more than anything just because I struggled shooting in the beginning. But once I started putting everything together like towards the end of the season, I started seeing like

a lot of double teams. Yeah, just a lot of double teams, a lot of ices, things like that. So yeah, that's pretty much double teams, a lot of ices, things like that. So yeah, that's pretty much my whole next step for next season. Just trying to figure out how to play the double team, how to get my team involved when I can't get going.

Just things like that. So I'm not a drought in the team. Well, you had the three-point shot already. That's helpful. Yeah. You had the explosiveness. That's helpful. And it seems like you have the competitiveness. Cause I was, I mean, I've been studying the draft and I love the draft and all these years later, like the first thing I look for is does this guy want to put in the work? And you can kind of tell when you read the stories or you see the, like Jabari Smith, I think is like this. You read the stuff about him and it's like, that guy wants to be great. Like he's going to put the work in. And you know, at some point, I'm sure you saw this when you come into the league, like a lot of these guys are talented. You know, it's not like you're going to have more talent than, you know, 20 other guys. You might,

you might be in that top group, but then the work ethic, that's what made Kobe special. That's what made LeBron special. But it seems like you have that. You're spending the summer you're working on getting a little more physical. What else are you working on? I'm working on keeping my handle tight. Being able to get better

at catching two threes. Make reads off the pick and roll. Just the next level type things like corner pass when he the little man helps all the way over decision making yeah decision making in general so yeah I'm working on a whole bunch right now

but the main goal right now while I'm in Houston I've been going to practice and everything is just trying to get stronger trying to get my weight up locking on my body, make sure everything's tip-top shape so I can go into next year. Protein shakes? Yeah.

What are you doing? What's the diet? A lot of calories? Yeah. I mean, I eat good portions of meals. That's the big thing right now is just portions of meals, protein shakes, drinking a lot of water. Those are the main things right now.

Because you can't put on too much weight. You don't want to mess up. I mean, you want to keep your explosiveness, but you also want to... I was watching... I think Jalen Brown's a good example of this, right? When he came in as a rookie, he's only playing like 12 minutes a game in the playoffs that first year.

And he just, at some point, just kind of filled out in a way that now he can guard all these type of guys. Jason Tatum always had the big shoulders, so even though, even when he was a pup, he could still go out there and do it. But then you see some of the other dudes, you see the weight that they put

on gradually. Kobe was like this. Kobe was like a string bean when he came in the league. Yeah. You know? Yeah, I watched a lot of Kobe when he was younger like a string bean when he came in the league. Yeah. You know? I watched a lot of Kobe when he was younger just to see like how he came into the league, what his mentality was

and like how everything just changed for him. Do you think, so Kobe comes in, he's on a good team right away, right? He goes in, he's with Shaq.

They're in the playoffs. They have higher expectations and also he's playing for the Lakers, the most, one of the most famous franchises we have. And a lot of his games are on TV and he's just in there. You got to go, you know, you're on a lottery team. You got to maybe not have the same kind of fishbowl type of thing, which is better, do you think? Is it better to just kind of be able to practice your

craft and low expectations on your team or just to be thrown into the fire like that? I think both is pretty good. I mean, at the end of the day, if you go into a lottery team and you've been able to go on the court and just get experience, being able to play with guys, learn how to play off each other. I mean, it's a rebuild at the end of the day. So you're learning everything on the fly. You're picking up from your closest film and doing the extra things because you just had a bad year. You lost.

You got the feeling of losing. So you don't want to feel that no more. So now you're going through it trying to figure out everything you could possibly do to be better, be a leader, take it to the next level. But I mean, if you're on a winning team, you got all those vets on the team that you could learn from. So, I mean, you you're on a winning team, you got all those vets on the team that

you could learn from. So, I mean, you see their routines and stuff, see what they're doing, pick up on some of their stuff, take it, make it some of yours, build habits. But yeah, that's my biggest thing right now is just building habits, staying on my routine. And yeah, like I said, take it to another level. And you had, I mean, there were some trades last year. You had a lot of teammates too, but you're probably used to that from the AAU era. Yeah. When you're in AAU, your teammates are changing all the time.

You always got different teammates in AAU. When did you start? When did you go into the AAU cycle? Like fifth grade, sixth grade? When did it start? Yeah, I started playing AAU around there. But I was a football player. I didn't take basketball serious until about ninth grade.

Yeah, I didn't take it serious until about ninth grade is when I sat out and started training. So yeah, that's when I started. What was the football? What were the positions? I was, for Pee Wee, I was running back. For middle school, I was wide receiver. I'm guessing you were a decent wide receiver. Yeah, I was close. I was running back from middle school. I was wide receiver. I'm guessing you were a decent wide receiver.

Yeah, I was close. I was close, but the injury messed me up and I was like, I can't do this no more. What happened? I had ran. I don't know what route I ran. I came back, caught the ball, turned and dude like smacked me right in my knee and my knee like extended all the way. Oh no. Yeah no it was pretty

bad so that's it can't do this no more you know edwards on minnesota was like this legendary high school football player and basically kind of stumbled into playing basketball but i think he always thought he's a football player and i always there's this alternate universe with him where it's like, what would this guy have been like on a football field? It sounds like you abandoned your thing before then, but is there a potential rivalry with you and him in a good way, you and Edwards?

Oh yeah, in a good way. That's my brother. I mean, we've been battling since high school. Yeah. When was the first time you met him? I think sophomore year, maybe junior. We was at USA and he was killing that USA camp, going crazy.

I was like, who is this? So we chopped it up a little bit and after since then, we became cool. And then next time I seen him was at Steph Curry camp right before he classed up to go to college so he went

out of my class and went straight to college after that and then we just we've been cool ever since I love that guy yeah I'm really interested to see how his career turns out because he's it's a good example where we're talking about earlier like sometimes at the situation certain people rise up and certain people don't and you could like, I think both of you have it, just being unafraid of whatever moment is happening. In his case, like, I mean, the downhill stuff with him is pretty nuts. I'd say you have different styles, but that could be a pretty good rivalry, especially because it's in the same conference.

Yeah, always. Always. Me and him go put on a show every time. We step on the floor. It's funny because after All-Star, we had played them right before

All-Star break. He was telling me we better average 25 after All-Star. And then we played them the next time I had 30.

So it all worked. Who was your, did you have like a rival in high school? Because you spent three years at one high school and then you switched for your senior year. But did you have a a rival in high school because you spent three years at one high school and then you switched for your senior year but did you have a guy you were

measuring yourself against i wouldn't say measuring myself against anybody um but i mean i think everybody in the top 10 of the espn rankings was pretty much going at each other's heads so you're looking at that from what age? The rankings? I started really looking at rankings when I got into the top three or top five or something like that. And then I started noticing,

I was like, I want one, I need one. I'm trying to get to one now. Trying to be the best player in the class. You finished, you were number one by the end, right? By the end of it, I was number one. I left the class number one. You never thought about college? Because you went to G League.

Was college even a possibility or you just knew you were going to G League? College was a possibility for sure. I didn't have all the big blue schools and stuff. It was different for me. College was a possibility. It was between Memphis and Auburn at the end of the day um and then G League came they offered it talking about how we're gonna have a program so the players can come here learn how to become a

pro early on and off the court they offered school school for us. So we was doing school, ASU. So I was like, why not? I mean, this has all the tools in the backyard. Let's just go here. And it was, you got some money too, which was nice. Yeah, it was. And they got, you know, you were able to do, when did you go with like CAA?

And when did that, did all that stuff happen this year? That year when you went into the G League, you were able to get like, figure out what your team was? Yeah, it year when you went into the G League? You were able to figure out what your team was? Yeah, it started when I was in the G League. That's when I got with CA. So then you're in this draft, which I think we're going to look back at as one of the best drafts. Yeah, for sure.

It's just Cade, Mobley, Franz Wagner, Kaminga, Suggs. It goes on down. Mitchell, it goes on down the line. I buy basketball cards. I like basketball cards.

This is like, I'm getting multiple boxes from this year and not opening them because it feels like there might be like three, four future all-NBA guys in that draft.

Yeah. It's pretty loaded. So are you looking at box scores? Are you measuring yourself against these other guys? What's your process with that? Box scores of who? Just all the guys from your class. Are you always checking out what they're doing?

I mean, yeah. Just because I support a lot of my guys in my class. A lot of them are my brothers. So it's like I want to see how they're doing. I want to see what they're doing, what to see what they're doing what they're implying what they got going for themselves but yeah I'm looking here and there but at the same time

I can't really worry about that too much I gotta worry about what I gotta do can't let their game affect me gotta stay locked in you know when that changed that was Jalen Rose's generation that was the first time all those guys there was like more of a brotherhood

that came out of whoever was in the same class. Because the 70s and 80s guys, they could give a crap. Right? And they all, like Bird and Magic, I don't think they talked for, you know, for the first five years of their career.

They just, yeah, and then they did a Converse commercial, everything changed. Now everything's a lot more friendly. I do think, it does feel like the super team era might be dying down now. Yeah, because

look at the teams that are left. Golden State, Draymond and Clay and Curry have been together for a whole decade. You look at Boston. They built around Tatum and Smart and Brown. Those guys have been together since 2016- 2017 range on down the line.

Even Dallas, Luka, they drafted him. And I wonder if that's going to be the new model because some of the super teams don't work out. Do you like the super team stuff or do you like the homegrown stuff? Yeah, I like the homegrown stuff. I ain't really been. It's exciting to watch the super team, obviously, but I like the homegrown stuff. You ain't really been. It's exciting to watch the super team, obviously. But, you know, I like the homegrown stuff.

You know, chemistry, everyone playing together, knowing our roles, stuff like that. How much hoop do you watch during the playoffs? Are you watching the games tonight or not? I've been watching every game lately. Any takeaways? We're taping this on a Monday. I'm going to the Celtics heat game in a couple of hours.

But what jumped out about Golden State? I've always said this since the first time I played in there. This is a tough team to guard just because they're always moving. Everyone knows their role. Steph's so hard to guard. Klay wasn't playing. I didn't get to play

against Klay. I think I did, but it's just hard to guard them. You got to play against Steph though, right? Yeah. He gamed us for one of the games. What does that mean? Oh, that's right. He had a game win on us.

I remember that. Yeah, that was bad. The cool thing with what him and Draymond have now after all these years is this unspoken they just kind of always know what the other guy's going to do, which is becoming rarer and rarer now in basketball because the guys change teams or the contracts are shorter. It's just harder to keep people together. Yeah. And watching those two, I just really enjoy it. That's my favorite kind of basketball.

I didn't know they had it this year, though. I was really worried about them during the Memphis series. Really? Yeah. Especially when they lost by 50? Yeah. They're always going crazy. They're always going crazy. That Memphis team is real beauty. I like how they play. They play

so hard. They have a lot of guys to throw at you. Yeah. That could be a possible rivalry. What was your take on Jokic? Have you ever seen anybody like him before? Never. He's a super good big.

The difference between Joel and Jokic, you see how Jokic is passing, getting everyone involved. Don't get it wrong, Joel Embiid is crazy. He's a walking double-double. He's going to get you 10 boards,

30 points, 40, 20 boards, you know? But your pitch got touched the whole stat sheet and it helps win. So it's crazy.

So you guys have a top three pick. Have they asked you for advice? Because you probably played against some of these guys. You don't have to tell me what you said, but do you feel like they're actually like, hey, let's ask Jalen what he thinks?

Or is it just your 20-year-old kid? They don't care. No, I got to ask who's my thoughts on somebody. Yeah, you don't have to say. I don't want to put you in that position. No, yeah, you're good. I figured they would check with you, though. Yeah, they checked with me for sure.

But, I mean, we got a third pick. There's three great players, good players that's coming out. So, I think it's coming up. It's funny how that works out

when there's a clear top three and you have the third pick. It's almost like you can't do anything wrong at that point. No, you're cheating.

Yeah. It's just like whoever falls to you, that's who you get. Let's build.'re too. Yeah. It's just like whoever falls to you, that's who you get. Let's build. Come on. Yeah. I have

I have Jabari first, but I could see the case for anybody. But I just that's like my stupid work ethic thing. And I just like I think the length

and the shot that he has and the fact that he's going to keep adding he's the safest bet to me. But I like all three guys. I was impressed at various times by all of them. You guys are in a position where it doesn't even matter who falls to you.

The guy's going to be an asset. And then you're off. This could be somebody who's in your life for like the next 12 years. So you lived in Houston year round. What was your situation? Do you have family with you? How'd you do it?

I moved out here. My family stayed home. My mom and my little sister and my older sister are all back in Fresno. But I moved out here with both my big bros. And yeah, I got an apartment like 15 minutes from the Toyota Center. So it's easy to get straight there. Yeah.

What was your reaction when you get drafted by them? What did you know about Houston? I knew about the James Harden era when he was going crazy. Yeah, Trevor Breeze, EG was still there. Yeah, I crazy. He had Trevor Breeze. EG was still there. I knew about that era. They were going crazy during that year.

Before that... Do you know about the food? Yeah. The food is crazy. They got the best food out here. I swear. That's where you put the weight on for sure.

You better be careful. Yeah. They got all types of different foods out here. I swear. That's where you put the weight on for sure. You better be careful. Yeah, they got all types of different foods out here. I love it. But I was super excited when I heard I was getting drafted there.

I mean, I didn't really care where I was going. I just wanted to be top. So, that all worked out and I'm happy

where I'm at. I like my situation. You know anything about the Hakeem era? Did they school you in that? Did they educate you? They gave us a little film breakdown. He was a goat in the post.

He's the most underrated guy of the last 30 years. For sure. Because Jordan leaves and Hakeem's the best guy for the entire time Jordan's out. Then Jordan comes back and loses. But now that's kind of been hung on Akeem a little bit. Like, well, he won the two titles, but Jordan wasn't there. It's like he...

I think they would have beaten the Bulls at least one of those times because he was unstoppable. They didn't have a center to... He had that little perfect going there. Oh, my God. He's ridiculous. And then they had shooting. They were kind of a

early prototype of how Hoops is played now with the shooters surrounding the one guy. Yeah. Which, you know,

they could still get big too if they wanted to. You can't close in or you're going to swing into the shooter and knock down. How would you rate your basketball history

chops? Like, how much did you know about the NBA like a super fan fan or kind of a fan the history man I went I was I was a fan I wouldn't say super fan just because I didn't I pick and chose my guys who I wanted to really you know really right and watch um like Larry Bird Michael Jordan Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Young Kobe,

King Lajuan. There's a ton of guys that I would watch individually, but I want to say I'm a super fan. I like the style of Fresno. You weren't near an NBA team. How close were the Kings to Fresno? Kings? It's like about two hours. Yeah, you didn't really have a team.

Your generation goes for players, though, over teams, it seems like. Yeah. Because I know my son doesn't have a favorite team. He just likes different players and people that he plays 2K with. That's exactly how it is now. Yeah. You're a 2K guy? I played it a little bit.

I was never super good. I would always just talk trash, get my friends all mad, act like I'm trying to go crazy. But no, I was never that good. I ain't never been a gamer, for real. Well, you're a pretty interesting guy. You have adult hobbies already, right? You're into fashion. Yeah.

You have your own cologne. What's the cologne thing? It's called Invictus. It was this little... I went to Spain and did a little commercial. So it was in Europe. It was out there. It was this cologne for Invictus.

It was super cool. We shot for three days. It was crazy stuff. They had me doing some awesome photoshoots. I was on the back of a truck and there was like motorcycles in the back. It was a super cool experience.

Give me some more stuff that you're up to non-basketball. Non-basketball? Honestly, I think that's pretty much the only thing I got right now. I mean, other than Adidas coming out with some crazy stuff.

It's pretty much it. How much time do you spend online? Are you on Twitter? Are you on TikTok? Are you on Instagram? Are you seeing what people are saying? Like, are you one of those guys or you stay away? I'm on Instagram mostly. Twitter a little bit.

I don't really use TikTok too much. I don't think that's my area. I think I think that's that's for my little sister and stuff. You know?

But yeah, I'm more of an Instagram guy. I'm starting to get on Twitter a little bit more. Yeah. I noticed that about 10 years ago with the players,

especially like, you know especially that some people, some teams had to ban phones at halftime and stuff like that. You could just go find anything. You could find any opinion. I do wonder, I don't know if that's a great thing for basketball. I would rather shut that stuff off. Yeah, for sure. During the season, I got off social media i didn't

even i didn't touch social media like that all right so give me your goals for next year what do you got um win more than 20 games i'm trying to be an all-star and i'm trying to average 20, 25. 25? Yeah, 20 to 25, around there in that realm. I feel like the way I ended the year, I feel like if I bring that, carry it on to the start and all the way through, there shouldn't be no reason I couldn't. And you think the offense, I mean, you guys don't,

I guess you have John Walls coming back, but from a point guard standpoint, a lot of that stuff could run through you, right? Yeah. I mean, that's how we started playing towards the end of the year. So to me, 23-5-5 seems conceivable for you next year, right? And then if you get to 25 in year two, that would be... I mean, that's a pretty big leap.

When do you turn 21? February 9th. Yeah, that's a pretty big leap. 23-5-5, I think, is absolutely attainable, though. Plus, your team's going to be better. You guys have cap space. Exactly. You know, you have a little bit more foundation.

Got two top three picks now. So, the West is in a weird spot too. I feel like it seems like a lot of the talent has shifted to the East. Yeah. In some way.

That's what we were saying during the season last year. Like, the East got so many people right now. Like, it's crazy. On the other hand, you've got Kawhi's back. Yeah.

Porter and, Porter and Murray arewhi's back. Porter and Murray are going to be back on Denver. So those two will be better. Yeah, so it's going to get real next year. The West is going to be lit. Last question. We're cool. I'm on your team.

When you see stuff like, you see when you see stuff like you see that thing when I was talking about Herb Jones and I was like fuck Gerald Green

and and then it gets pulled out like you had some dude on a podcast go after you how do you even see that how does that come to you

and you're like wait a second did that actually happen like are you immediately suspicious that it's like a when i seen it i'm like i'm like damn what i don't know him what did i what i do to him like i don't know

where it's coming from but i mean everyone everyone's gonna talk i'm used to seeing things like that people talking in general but um yeah i ain't never take it too personal it's never nothing i mean we started i started making a joke out of it on Twitter. Laughed about it. It's all good. Yeah, it's funny because when it happened, I was like, all right, this is like your classic stupid social media thing.

Yeah. But then somebody tried to write some piece about it. And I was like, all right. And I did this tweet. I was like, we were joking the whole time. So I felt like the facts were on my side. And then the way this goes, it keeps popping up. But then, I don't know, your class was really good. I had trouble figuring out who my five guys were. And for me, it's like, I've always had this

strategy with the voting that the team record stuff matters to me. You guys had 20 games. And I looked at the stuff Herb Jones was doing in New Orleans and I was like, this guy this is a team that has a chance to make the playoffs. I like rewarding that. Their team got really good towards that time for the playoffs.

After that whole trade deadline, they got CJ. They started turning up. They started adding key players. I mean, they became a good team. Before that, they weren't really... They stunk. Yeah, they weren't really good.

So it's like... By the way... That's like getting drafted to a winning team. Right. But that's a possible scenario for you guys next year. Yeah, for sure. Because I think that was a good example of like, they hit on the Herb Jones pick.

CJ, they get Larry Nance is in the trade too. Now you get three guys and you think like, wait, Zion's not going to play the whole year and they're going to be competing for a playoff spot. But it was these other moves they made around the fringes. And that's, you know, what this stuff comes down to. If you can have the two foundation guys or the three, whatever,

but you start hitting those fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth guys, all of a sudden you're good. Like New Orleans was toe-to-toe with Phoenix in that round one. Alvarado, that was another one. Yeah, he was, hey, he's a dog. I like his game.

Came out and just, he just plays hard. He's like a, in in a good way he's like annoying like on the court you know you know guys like that like annoying like he's always just there like around you like i think that's super lit he's super good but yeah i'm glad i'm glad we got to get on and talk about that yeah yeah let's look it was stupid, but I, because I know, I know we have some mutual people and everybody's like, Jalen's the best. This guy, he should just come on

because you guys should just chop it up and talk hoops. So I'm glad we did that. I'm rooting for you. I think 23-5-5 is attainable. If you're going to tell me 25-5-5 is in play, I'm intrigued, but it seems like... I mean, why not aim high? Let's aim high. By the way, I'm intrigued. But it seems like... Why not aim high?

Let's aim high. By the way, I forgot to ask you, what would you do with the slam dunk contest? Would I do it again? No, what would you do? Is there a way to fix it?

Is it just... Is it run its course? What do you do? I think it's just run its... I mean, I messed up the last... I shouldn't have started off so... So, trying to come out crazy... I shouldn't have started off so... Trying to come out crazy.

I shouldn't have started off so crazy. Well, the pressure is to come up with some dunk nobody's seen before. But we've had 40 years of dunks at this point. There's no more dunks left. What are people going to do? Everyone's going to try the new. So I'll try to just come out with something no one's seen before. Outside of backboard, between the legs.

And the crazy thing, right before, I was upstairs practicing. And before, outside of the backboard, between the legs. And the crazy thing, right before I was upstairs practicing and I got it right before we went onto the court. Yeah. But then like, after I missed the first like two, three, my legs started shaking.

Everyone on the sidelines, come on, you got it, bro. I'm like, ah. Well, you can feel the energy. I've been in those things when it's not going well and the energy just gets super ah well you can feel that energy I've been in those things when it's not going well and the energy

just gets super weird you can feel it ah man but yeah I think I've been saying this for 20 years and they tried it

but I don't feel like they did it correctly I still think horse is better horse I would love to watch horse or pig

yeah yeah that would be cool because you can add both you can shoot and dunk right yeah and it should be people who have Love to watch horse or pig. Yeah. Yeah, that would be cool. Because you could add both. You could shoot and dunk. Right.

Yeah. And it should be people who have like a similar, like if it's you versus Anthony Edwards. Yeah. And you're playing a horse and dunks are on the table, outside shots, props, anything. Yeah.

I guarantee that's going to be more fun than a slam dunk contest. Yeah. I mean, I think that would be pretty exciting. It just depends. Like, what are the rules to it? Like, how?

Just get to HRSE. I think it should be shorter, though, because, you know, you're trying a whole bunch of new trick shots and stuff. So, Pig. Pig, yeah. Pig. You think you would take him? Amen. Yeah.

You versus him and Pig with 20,000 people in the arena? I'll tell him right now. Let's get Pig going. So, what's your move? 20, 28 footer to start? Yeah. Or you get a dunk to start? Try to put some pressure on him early?

I'm going to wait on the dunk. I'm going to say the dunk for the last one but no I'm going to come in with a trick shot first just a little warm up I just don't know who's not watching that yeah that would be exciting that would be weak because I think the key is

it's got to be people who are in the same like relative level of like athletic ability skill right it can't be like I mean I guess you could do it you versus Steph Curry but if it's mean, I guess you could do it, you versus Steph Curry, but if it's you versus Steph Curry,

you could try to do all these dunks that he probably can't do at this point. It's like he's 33. Yeah, he's going to shoot from behind the logo. Right. But if it's Steph Curry versus, I don't know, Tyler Hero, that's going to be like all 30, 35 footers and that's more fun.

So I would almost group them like weight classes, like in boxing. It's like welterweight, junior, middleweight, heavyweight. It would be the same thing where it's like athletic two guards, it's you and Edwards and two more. And then we get like the shooters, they're in this group.

And then like tall guys like Evan Mobley and those kinds of guys. They're in their own thing. That would be cool. You might, you might got to put the word in for that. Oh, we'll see. We'll see if it works.

All right, Jalen Green. Take care of yourself. Good luck in the draft. I hope the Rockets listen to you. I'm rooting for you. Thanks for coming on. Yes, sir. Appreciate you having me.

All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Kyle Creighton, as always, for producing. Thanks to Steve Cerruti and Dylan Berkey as well. I'm not sure of the schedule for the rest of the week, but we'll have at least one more BS podcast. Don't forget Rewatchables. Tuesday night, big movie. Stay tuned for that. See you then. I don't have

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