The Bill Simmons Podcast - A Full-Fledged Luka-Gasm with Marc Stein. Plus: Chadwick Boseman on 'Black Panther' and the Sports Movie Hall of Fame | The Bill Simmons Podcast

Episode Date: November 20, 2019

HBO and The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Marc Stein of 'The New York Times' to discuss Luka Doncic, The Raptors’ title defense, Ja Morant, James Harden, Lakers, Clippers, Celtics, and more (3:08). Then Bill sits down with actor Chadwick Boseman to talk about sports movies, making biopics, '42,' 'Draft Day,' 'Black Panther,' his new movie '21 Bridges,' NFL, NBA, and more (1:06:08). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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which was the peak of the KD, Russ, Harden era in OKC, only we didn't know it was the peak. We thought it was the beginning of a dynasty. It turned out it was the end of a budding dynasty. So if you ever cared about James Harden, OKC, if you want to hear intelligent basketball talk, those are the podcasts for you. Speaking of intelligent basketball talk,

Mark Stein, my old friend from ESPN, now at the New York Times, is going to come on to talk about Luka Doncic because I am obsessed with Luka Doncic. We're going to do that. And then Chadwick Boseman, he's going to talk about really why he's abandoned his run at the Sports Movie Hall of Fame. We talked about his other movies, all that stuff, but I really just cared about the sports movies.

That's all coming up first. Our friends from Pearl Jam. Kyle, you made it to 26. All the way. What were the odds, like 4-1? You'd know better than I. I didn't look at that kind of stuff. Even odds? Yeah, let's say even.

I feel better about that. Is this going to be your last podcast? How hard are you going tonight? No, no. I'm taking it easy. I got Rossello early. How early? I don't know, but he's coming in, so I'm going to have to look him in the face.

So I'm going to try to take it easy. You didn't wear sunglasses? No, no, no. I got the new transition, so maybe early on he won't be able to tell. Well, happy birthday. Thanks, bud. All right. Let's call Mark's time. the new transition. So maybe, maybe early on, he won't be able to tell. Well, happy birthday. Thanks bud. Uh, all right,

let's call Mark's time. Okay. So I planned this part of the podcast 24 hours ago before Luka Doncic dismantled, dismantled, dismantled. He dismantled and dismantled the San Antonio Spurs. He had a,

I think a 42, 10 and 10, something like that. Uh, the symbolism of a new young gun Mav taking down the declining Spurs could not be lost. But more importantly, Mark Stein, you're here for the New York Times. You're on a book of basketball pod coming up in a couple of weeks, which I'm very excited about. Mark Stein, here's my question.

We spent the first four weeks of the season, people talked about load management. I think for like nine solid days, it became the dominant NBA story. We started out in the preseason with China. Right now, everybody's been talking about Carmelo Anthony for two days. There was Dwight Howard before that.

All these stories that either have nothing to do with basketball or are tangential to other non-basketball stories or whatever. And here's Luka Doncic, who is the best 20-year-old player ever in the history of the league and is combining Larry Bird and LeBron James night after night after night. And this is like an afterthought. I don't understand this.

What's it like to be in Dallas watching this? Very, very fun, William. Not going to lie to you. I think I told you this before, but you get the chance to cover someone like Dirk for 21 years. People always say, it's so sad. You can't say it's bad. The guy played for 21 years he went two years longer than reggie miller what more do you want from the guy right and after all that which was already a lottery for cuban and a lottery for me as a reporter and now this guy

shows up and he is nightly box office it It's not even just the staff. I mean, he is a showman. You're just sitting there and you're like, this guy is an entertainer. I mean, he just, he plays the game and you just love watching it. I can't believe it happened this fast. I have been all in for two years, as anyone who has heard this podcast.

I couldn't believe that Sacramento passed him up. I thought Phoenix should have taken him first. I couldn't believe Atlanta traded out of the spot. I watched a decent amount of those EuroLeague games that mattered, the bigger ones, because some of them were on NBA TV, some of them were on the internet. He was 18 going against fucking men every night and his team won

the title. I don't understand what more he had to do. With all of that said, I never thought this was going to happen so early. What he's doing this season... And you liked it more than I did, which I think is somewhat of an upset. Yeah.

But, but what is, I've been hearing about this kid for a long time. You know, his national team coach with Slovenia, Igor Kokoschkov, I've covered him a long time. So,

I mean, he's been, you know, he was, he was, he was saying even before Luca was really known as a potential draft candidate, this guy is going to be amazing.

You're not going to believe it. Yeah. I mean, even still, he's still exceeded all expectations. I mean, the guy's averaging 30, 11 and nine.

Right. It's the part that I don't understand is how this is happening now. And I think, look, there's some factors in play, right? That like the defense, the pace that we have now, the defense isn't, you know, as intense maybe for all four quarters.

And there's some spaces and some opportunities to put up numbers, especially with the amount of threes everybody's jacking up and the spacing and no center. I get all of it. What doesn't make sense to me is you compare what he's doing this season to the greatest players of all time. The season that he's having this year, just statistically, points, rebounds, assists, is better than any LeBron season ever. Right now, they're 29-9-9 club. Now, granted, this has only been 13 games,

but I feel comfortable saying this was a pretty meaningful sample size because he's doing it every night. It's not like, you know, one night he's at, he's scoring 48 and the next night he's scoring 10, like night after night after night, he's 27, seven and seven, 32, 10 and 11. It's just consistent. But anyway, there's only three guys ever who have averaged a 29, nine, and 9 for the entire season. Luka this year, he's 29.5 points, 10.7 rebounds, 9.3 assists. Westbrook during his MVP season was 31.5, 10.7, 10.4, and then three Oscar seasons in 61, 62, and 64. And that's it. That's the whole list. Now what's crazy to me, don't you feel like Luca has like four more levels to go? Like he's not even really shooting threes that well. I don't know where this ends. I mean,

I don't know for, I mean, I mean, if, if, I mean, if he has four levels to go, he will.

So, I mean, let's, let's not go that far, but yes, I mean, is he going to get better i think yes he'll keep getting better and again he's he's still just 20 and he he is leaner he is stronger

he has spent more time in the weight room but you know there is the chance that in you know down the road you know he he gets even more chiseled, sculpted, a little leaner. I think he hasn't even... There is still a lot of room to get better, but just the year-to-year improvement is already crazy. The things he does as a floor leader, the patience, the way he sees the game, the way he knows where everybody is while he's making his move and just his ability to make these in-air passes and just constantly make the right play.

I mean, for a 20-year-old, that's insane. So the reason I said I thought he could jump four times is if you look at Bird and LeBron specifically, LeBron is somebody who has kind of jumped a level at these 2009, 2010, the double MVPs. Then goes to Miami. Remember, he jumps again. I'm going to say 2012, 13, that year when we thought he might be able to average 60% shooting, all that stuff. We go to 2016, 17, 18, and he figures out this whole power game that he just adds to everything else that's going on. It becomes this devastating, whenever he wants to get to the rim, he can kind of do it. And now we're seeing

this other version of LeBron where he's going to lead the league in assists and he's becoming more of a point forward than really he's ever been. The point is he keeps adding things. And with Lukai, look at all the stuff he's doing already. And I'm like, all right, what's the next iteration? Like he's not even really posting up that much yet. He could add that. He could get stronger. The three-point shooting could get way better. Like I do think he has 50, 40, 90 potential someday.

And the reason I bring all this up is he's only 20. And I feel like there's room for improvement in a whole bunch of different things, which is crazy because he's averaging a 29 99. It doesn't make sense to me. He has cleaned that up, but I do think, yes,

he can get even better at it. And I mean, he's serious with himself. Every single free throw he misses. So he clearly thinks he should be shooting better at the line. The three to me, that was the big difference. When I saw him in the preseason and,

you know, we, we didn't, we didn't see him this summer you know he wasn't at the fiba world cup because of the format change and a whole international basketball mess that i know you don't want me to get into because i know that's right but he wasn't there he didn't see him all summer but the minute you got the preseason his three ball just looks like his confidence from three he just to me he has a step like audacity now i mean yeah he's like he's gonna shoot it from 30 and he doesn't care what you know us tradition old traditionalists think he believes these are good shots he believes they're all going in last night and what do you missed six seven in a row and then he makes so makes the game clincher i mean the guy is just

he there's just something different about him from three it's just smoother and again he just that's the thing i mean the cost it's just the confidence where Where do you get that at 20? I know everything he did in Europe. He was the best player in Spain as an 18-year-old. Fine. But that's still more than a notch below the NBA. I mean, he just... I asked Porzingis last night. Porzingis, you know, you remember being 20.

I mean, and he said it too. You're born with it. You can't teach what this kid has. He just has it. Well, and I think that the three-point shooting is a pretty small sample size because he could have a two-game stretch where he goes 13 for 16 from three or something, and that would skew the percentages. I think, you know, I keep gravitating toward LeBron in my head

because I think people don't really realize yet that he is the best 20-year-old player ever. I think people would have thought it was LeBron, but when you just even compare the stats, like LeBron was 27-7-7, but he was playing 42.4 minutes a game that second season. What's nuts about Luka, right now he's basically 30-11-9. He's only playing 35 minutes a game that second season. What's nuts about Luka, right now he's basically 30, 11, and 9.

He's only playing 35 minutes a game. And his usage rate is 34%. It's not like Harden, Westbrook, 2017 levels. It does feel like more. Yeah, it does. And I think that's one of the reasons the three-point shooting is down because when you watch the Mavs, and I'm obsessed with them. I've just watched so much. The Celts and the Mavs are the two teams I watch the most.

His team's not that good? Porzingis has not been that good. I think people who probably haven't seen a lot of them were like, well, they have two stars. It's like, all right, well, Porzingis has been decent. I certainly don't think he's... Well, he deserves more. You know, you're not going to get it in today's NBA.

You're certainly not going to get it after you sign a five-year, a hundred, whatever, million dollar, what was it, 16, 158? Yeah. You sign a deal like that, there's going to be no patience. But the guy was out 20 months.

I'm with you. He's not just getting things underneath him. He's playing in a, because of Luca, because Luca is what he is because he is the Euro LeBron. Now, Porzingis is being asked to play in a different way than he ever has. And he's still learning how to do it.

I mean, he, you know, they want him at the three point line facing the court, leaving the lanes open for Lucauka to drive in there. And Porzingis has never done that. So I think we got to give him a minute to figure that out. I'm with you. I 100% agree.

I'm just pointing out the first four plus weeks, he hasn't been that good. And I think by March, I fully expect he will have figured it. First of all, his confidence will be back. And second of all, you just made the key point. He has to be a stretch five in this offense. And you could even see it in that Knicks game the other night.

It was so frustrating. I don't want to have the, are we sure Rick Carlisle is still good conversation with you yet? But when you're posting up Porzingis with 80 seconds left in a Knicks game where Luka is completely unstoppable. I'm like, what are you guys doing?

Is it in his contract? Do you have to throw him one low post play in the last two minutes? I think Porzingis is a stretch five. And that, back to Luka, the offense that they have the pieces of now to put around him reminds me of Lamar Jackson and the Ravens,

where they knew they had this special talent and the Ravens decided, we're all in on this guy. We're going to put all pieces around him that will accentuate all this stuff that he's good at. And with Luka, the Mavs are not there yet, but the general kind of parameters of what's there is right. And I think part of that is Porzingis is a stretch five.

It's weird to think of a seven foot three guy is best off 25 feet from the basket. But the reality is he's really devastating from there, you know, and I do like the way they interact. Do you think, are they, as Porzingis accepted that he's not the best player in this team yet?

He says all the right things. I think in in real time it's still an adjustment for him and i think the the example you just laid out kind of illustrates that and you know they're in new york it's porzingis's comeback game the fans are hurling invective at him like we haven't heard it madison square garden in ages right so does everybody get swept up in the moment and want to have help porzingis answer that and be the late hero i mean did that figure into that i'm sure you know they're all human i'm sure it did but i think porzingis is a smart dude and i think he sees it very clearly that Luka is not from, I mean, he said it himself last night. I mean, Luka is not from this planet.

So he will eventually get there. And when the Mavs lost to Knicks the first time at home, there was all this talk. Who's going to be the third guy? They've got to get the duo right first. They've got to get Luka and Porzingis meshing well. I think that's priority number one. And that's really what this season is about. They want to make the playoffs, obviously, but getting those two

guys in a great flow, and then you start figuring the exact rest of the puzzle. I don't think they're in a rush to do it by April. Well, here's the thing. Everyone's going to want to play with this guy. And you think down the road, I know their cap's tied up this year,

but when you start thinking about maybe two years down the road, I still think Porzingis is a great asset for them, especially just having a 7'3 stretch 5 who can put his hands up around the rim. That alone, what an asset. But imagine some third shooter that you're just flipping for the Seth Curry spot, basically, or the Tim Hardaway Jr. All those minutes that are going to all those swing guys, and now you're putting, I don't know, Bradley Beal in three years or whoever it is who's just won the lottery because he's on Lucas

team. I, I'm so shocked and stunned as just somebody who loves basketball at how fucking smart he is with reading what's going on and being two chess moves ahead of everybody and making the right pass over and over again and setting up people where he's like driving into the paint. He's doing these no look passes to the corners, you know, where it's like, he's driving in the paint. You think he's going to kick it back to the top of the key and his whole

body is shifting. Like he's going to do that. And then he's throwing a no look 20 foot pass to a wide open guy in the corner. I've never seen anybody do stuff like this. Have you? Well, you hit on the interesting thing because i remember

last year this came up in dallas all the time oh guys just love to play with luca and forzingas and last year that was premature i mean it it you know it does take time but he's so luca is so good right now that i think you're right i think that that narrative that that discussion is going to start to be going to be fascinating if you all start and because i you know i don't think there's any question luke is going to be there now and just to see him in that environment with all the all-stars and i do think now we're going to start to hear chatter of guys want to play with him and it's it's happening faster than I thought. I didn't even think it would be

a year or two thing because you know how these things are. Team USA is where a lot of this star pairing up stuff happens. Kawhi and Paul George, they played against each other in high school age. Luka obviously doesn't have that coming from Europe,

but the way he is playing, that is now going to start. Well, just so people think this isn't hyperbole, because I'm telling you it's not. There's nothing gushing or hyperbole-ish about this podcast. This is all legitimate stuff. Only seven guys in the history of basketball were under 21 years old, averaging 21 plus points a game, which doesn't even plus points a game,

which doesn't even seem like a lot, right? Luka's done it twice. He's the only one. LeBron did it, Shaq, Kyrie Irving, Kevin Durant, Carmelo, Devin Booker. You look at his year two for Luka versus LeBron's year two, basically every single thing is better. The three-pointers for LeBron was a little bit better, but he was taking less.

But every sort of stat you want to get together. What's interesting, if you take LeBron's best three Cleveland seasons, which were his last three, where he averaged 29-8-8 basically, Luka's still doing better than that right now. If you go to LeBron's three best Miami seasons which was 2012 13 and 14 the last three

he was 27 8 and 7 basically but he's shooting 38% from 3 he's shooting he's over 50% field goal stuff like that Luca's not there the percentages but from a production better if you go to Larry Bird's four best Boston seasons ever,

the average is 28, 10 and seven with, with, uh, 52, 41, 90 percentages. The legend was the fucking man.

Um, well, let's, let's, let's break. I mean, basically this is why you love Luca so much. Yeah.

Cause he's, he's Euro Larry Bird. He's the Euro bird. He's back. I mean, basically, this is why you love Luka so much. Yeah, because he's Euro Larry Bird. He's the Euro Bird. He's back. This is how Bird would have played now. Hold that thought, because I want to talk about that, but we've got to take a break. Hey, it's fight season on DAZN. Coming up, the much-anticipated Ruiz vs. Joshua rematch on December 7th.

The first fight was a real-life Rocky story in Anthony Joshua. Undefeated. Superstar. His opponent dropped out after feeling a drug test. Andy Ruiz volunteered himself as a replacement. Slid into the DMs of Joshua's promoter on Instagram asking for a shot. It all happened one month before the fight and you know the rest. He was an 11-1

underdog. Not only did he win and become the new heavyweight championship, he got to be in the BS podcast. Yeah, he did. Some people say that's more impressive than winning the heavyweight title. Now he's determined to prove this was not a fluke.

Repeat. This was not a fluke. Repeat, this was not a fluke. How do we find out what happens? I have an idea. Get the DAZN app. It's available on all your devices. December 7th, watch college football. Stream Ruiz Joshua on a second screen. Watch NBA on a third screen.

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All you have to do is download the DAZN app to start watching. All right, Mark Stein, you just got to the next place I wanted to go with this podcast. It's hard to watch basketball right now and wonder, okay, what would have happened if Larry Bird was playing now? What would his style be? Go ahead. You have the floor. Yeah. And that's what you, you said last night, we must talk about Luca. He's my favorite non Celtic. And that's when it hit me that this is you,

this is you imagining what Larry bird would have been like in 2019. Now I don't think Larry quite had Lucas handle, but he would have, he would have played a lot more like this than in the eighties when it was so bruising. And he had to be, you know, he had to be a beastly four man and well, beastly three man.

But I mean, he he had to play a lot more of a physical inside game. Well, here's the thing. A lot of the stuff Luca is doing is things that we never really got to see Bird have the chance to do because of what the spacing was like back then. He was able to do a lot of the find the open man stuff and, you know, basically drawing people over to him and the defense would have to decide, do we have to single him or we double him? If we double him, he's going to find a shooter.

But the good news for them was the shooters were all within 20 feet of the basket. Right? So if, if you think about, you just put Bird on this Mavs team. You just flip him with Luka. You take like 1986 Bird,

you just put him on this team instead of Luka. And you put, you surround him with all those shooters. And I think he would post up more than Luka did, but I think the same concepts would be there, right? It would be like, I'm going to beat my guy off the dribble and then either go to the basket or find open shooters, or I'm going to post up and I'm either going to beat my guy on the post up. If you come down and send a second guy,

I'm immediately finding the best possible guy to shoot. And this is the stuff Luka's doing that I don't think people are totally seeing yet. There's a chess game aspect to the decisions he's making that is really like supernatural. And we've only seen a couple guys in the history of the league be able to think like this. Like it was magic.

It was bird. I think LeBron on his best days definitely had it. But it is the rarest quality you have where it's like he's already ready for whatever the defense is going to throw at him. And he's already making

the best possible decision but the play hasn't happened yet and that's what I see from him and that's why I'm so excited about him. Well every year the game's going to slow down a little bit for him and because he's so far ahead of the curve you know what it looks like in year five

is probably what it looks like in year two to him because when you talk to the Mavs that's what they say that they just love them that he's more patient he's a little bit more patient he just just knows how to get everybody else set up when they do just swarm him and take his shot away but also to his strength inside I I mean, he just, he is stronger, and he's bullying guys down there now. I mean, it's... Which is, by the way, that's...

You need to get with Carlisle, because Carlisle obviously knows Bird's game chapter and verse, and he could probably extrapolate this better than I could. Dude, I'm giving you a column just write it shooting more free and handling the ball more and this is a glimpse of it you're there you're in Dallas write the

fucking column just go go ask him this is a layup what would Bird have done you have all the pieces go do it I'm assigning it to you for an audience do it. I'm assigning it to you. For an audience of one, Bill Stim. No, I'm assigning it to you.

Do it for the New York Times. You were there, weren't you, for that Lakers versus Luka matchup a couple Friday nights ago? Oh, yeah. I thought that was, to that point,

to me, that was the game of the season. Oh, I still think it was. I thought that was the moment where I'm like, oh man, he's actually ready for this now. Don't listen to me.

I mean, LeBron James was slobbing all over him after the game. When you address LeBron, I think that's really all you need to know. And it's funny because I think Luka was, I'm going to say, 40-1 or 25-1 or something for the MVP. And I don't think he's going to win the MVP.

I think Giannis is going to win it again unless Milwaukee has more injuries or whatever. The Mavs aren't going to win enough for him to be a real MVP candidate. They're not going to win enough. But on the other hand, it is interesting. How many games would they have to win for him to become an MVP candidate? Because Westbrook won the MVP. I think they, what did they win? Like 50, 51? They won 47. 47.

And I was a Westbrook voter. So if this Mavs team wins 47, I think then there will be a discussion for sure. I mean, I, I don't know that it's a 47 win team, you know, that Westbrook team, you know, if he went, if they win 50, it's a lock that he's the MVP. To me, it's not even going to be a debate. But for me, voting that year, and I know there are a lot of people who still take issue with that vote, they had just lost to Rant. And to me, the impression was that Thunder were going to fall off the face of the earth.

And he kept them in 50 win range while averaging a triple-double. That's why, that was, for me, what made it such a big deal. You know, can Luka get this Mavs team to 47 wins? Tall order. Tall order in the West. Listen, you're going to be scarred for life by that Westbrook vote. It's your scarlet letter as an NBA voter. No regret.

It's your worst take of all time. I'm sure you've had worse soccer takes, but it's your worst basketball take of all time. No regret. No regret, man. I have a news flash for you. Not only do I think Dallas is going to win 47 games, I think they have a chance to get to 50.

Because I think... If you're right, then Giannis has something to worry about. Here's the case. They have one of the best players in the league and if he's really that good and if

he's really going to be on this LeBron Bird trajectory, it's not unrealistic for him to be on a 50 win, be the best guy on a 50 win team in year two. That's one thing. Second, they have the best offense in the league right now. And I don't even feel like they've tapped into the full potential because we talked about Porzingis.

Seth Curry was terrible at the start of the season. He's starting to come back. I still feel like Luka has another level shooting-wise to get to. And then, you know, buyout guys, who knows in February? They have very tradable contracts.

I think there's an upside with them roster-wise. And then you look at the West. Everybody thought the West was going to be so stupendous. We'll have a newsflash for you. It looks like we have five good West teams, six if you count Dallas. And then it quickly moves to that Phoenix, Minnesota,

Sacramento, OKC, Portland, San Antonio bundle. And I don't really think any of those teams are that good. Do you? I am not. and I don't really think any of those teams are that good do you? I am not I'm never going to write the Spurs off until it happens so you know I'll be late to that party I think everybody feels like

the end is nigh and it's finally turned and the playoff streak is over and Pop can't resurrect them this time and it's going to be death by mid-range and their starters fall in a 20-point deficit every game i'm not i'm not you know everyone else can go there i'll be the last guy who says the spurs are out of it portland has been a disaster and you know no

matter what you think of mellow you know let's see if this Lillard injury is minor, major, whatever. I'm not, you know, I have to think Portland's going to bounce back. And all those teams you mentioned, you know, maybe they're not 50-win material, but they're all confident. They're all good enough that it's still a jumble. And 47 wins, hey, if he gets them to 47, if he gets them to 50, then he's going to be right there. All right, so if I said I think they're going to go

at least 48 and 34, you think that's crazy? That's very Simmons-esque. You love those bowls? No, I don't feel like I'm being bold. I think they have a generational offensive player, and if he stays healthy, I think they're going to win 48 games. Okay, they have a generational

offensive player, and they've also lost to Nick's fight. Yeah, and you saw the second Nick's game. That was an all-time giveaway, and they never, ever should have lost that game. Like, I look at their 8-5, I feel like all-time giveaway, and they never, ever should have lost that game. I look at their 8-5. Right, but their 8-5, and they

really honestly could be 10-3 pretty easily. I watched the Celts. The Celts are 12. Yeah, that was another one. That was the third game. I forgot about that. Seth Curry got fouled. Didn't even call it. It was right in front of the ref. God forbid they caught a foul on the Lakers.

I'm super excited about Luka. I'm excited for you. The two guys, you and Cuban, you're just two lucky motherfuckers. Unbelievable. I tell him all the time, how many lotteries are you going to win? But it's interesting.

I talked to an exec with a team that let's just say would not exactly be thrilled to see that the maps have done so well with this donchic pick yeah and i threw that same theory at them and they were like no they actually they made their luck this time they they you know they traded for donch. They put the extra draft pick on the table. They made that happen. They knew he was their guy. And it's true. You got to credit them. I know you will never forgive the Suns, Kings, and Hawks.

The Suns was defensible because I think people lose their minds when a potential franchise center is out there. And I get it. They had Devin Booker. I would have taken Luka 100 times out of 100 and said so over and over again. But I at least get it. Sacramento, I did not get. I thought that was insane.

And I like Marvin Bagley, but that was insane that they didn't think Luka Doncic and DeAndre Fox would, I'm sorry, DeAaron Fox would make sense together. That was insane. And then Atlanta at three, you know, and they're very like sensitive about this now. It's like Trae Young's good. Screw you. It was a good trade.

Well, here it is. I mean, Phoenix's issue is they had the ultimate Luka expert there in Kokoschkov and didn't draft him. I mean, they had more info on Luka conceivably than anybody and still went with Aiton. Yeah, and what happened to that guy? Where is he now? Like you said, it's defensible. Aiton was nominally a local kid.

Big center. You understand. Okay, it happens. The Kings issue was we can't have Fox and we can't have Dodgers. They were convinced they couldn't play it to them, but why couldn't they have been the team to draft Luka and they could have been the ones trading

with Dallas and getting the extra pick. I mean, that's really what the King have to answer for. And then the Hawk case, they drafted Reddit with the pick they got from Dallas. And that does not look to be off to a promising start. Yeah. Congratulations on that extra draft pick.

Here's the thing. Guess, guess what I'm doing in this situation. Every time taking the generational superstar, I don't, I just don't feel like you Google doing in this situation every time? Taking the generational superstar. I just don't feel like you could go wrong in that situation. You did not know he was a generational superstar. No, but I thought he was going to be a superstar. I was convinced.

I just felt like... I thought people were discounting the EuroLeague stuff in a really strange way that made no sense to me and didn't really make sense to a lot of people that follow basketball. They were acting like he was, you know, in single A baseball or something. He was playing against men every night and he played in 80, what did he play, 90 games that year? I thought that was insane that people just devalued that for some reason. Anyway, I want to talk about a couple other things.

We did a half hour on Luka. We beat the over to talk about a couple other things. We did a half hour on Luca. We beat the over-under. A couple other things I'm super excited about. We were under, right? I thought it was going to be another half hour. No, because I'm still very upset at everybody that load management and just people focusing on the bad

and the negative over and over again. I think this has been a really good NBA season so far. I want to talk about a couple other things I'm excited about. I might not be the right guy to be talking to then. Well, but here's the thing. I've been far more focused on the negative. Yeah. All right.

Well, that's great. We're going to take a break and then I'm going to make you more positive. Hold on. Let's talk about SoFi. If you're like most millennials, you know you should be investing, but you're not sure where to start. Getting your money right doesn't have to be hard. SoFi. If you're like most millennials, you know you should be investing, but you're not sure where to start. Getting your money right doesn't have to be hard.

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CFL number 6054612. All right. I don't blame you for being a little more negative. You're more focused on soccer, I feel like. Basketballs, it's a lark to you. You just cover it. But really, your heart's with soccer. I feel like basketballs, it's a lark to you. You just cover it, but really your heart's with soccer. So I don't blame,

I don't blame you. God, you are so wrong. But go ahead, continue. The, here's some storylines I love. And I,

I don't want to talk about Giannis because we devoted a big chunk of the podcast, I think a week and a half ago to the fact that he's better this season and he's going to average a 30-14, it looks like. And he's going to have a season that's better than any Shaq season ever. Just all seems really relevant. I feel like that's a fun topic. Here's another one. And people have talked about this a little, but I really think it's inspiring. I saw them, They came through LA.

This Toronto title defense, you know how much I love title defenses. You know I'm still mad that your guy, Cubes, just punted on 2012. Just quit on it. Just quit on his title defense. Basically sold the trophy on eBay over trying to defend it. I like when teams defend their title. I love what Toronto's doing. They're just like, yeah, we lost Kawhi.

Guess what? We're still good. We're not going away. We're going to see Ockham's gone up a level. We're all chipping in. We're the champs. And they've actually defended this. I think it's pretty inspiring. Point A. I mean, you know, I love toronto as a city so i'm i'm any any chance for them to keep winning stay relevant and increase my chances of going there i'm all in for it so

i'm right there with you the occam obviously another guy who people are going to throw into the to the mvp mix the way that he's playing. Another amazing... I mean, where he was two years ago to where he is now, ridiculous. Nick Nurse does not get enough discussion for he should be in the top coaches in the league talk. Yeah. He gets so much out of that team.

It's ridiculous. But you really think Toronto has decided that they're not trading anybody? You really think that Masai Ujiri is just going to keep those guys past February? He could still trade Lowry. He could still trade Gasol. He could still trade Ibaka. So we don't know that they're just going to defend their title as is

for a full 82 games. I'm going to start calling you Stiney Downer. Remember the Debbie Downer, the SNL sketch, Stiney Downer. Toronto's going to train everybody. Okay. Boomer.

Okay. Stiney Downer. I got a lot of that. I got a lot of that on my, uh, I did a column a couple of weeks ago about what a, what a rough start the league was off to. And I got a lot of that on my... I did a column a couple weeks ago about what a rough start the league was off to, and I got a lot of that. So I learned a new term.

What was the rough start? Because of China and load management? What else was rough? China, the fight, all the injuries, Baines landing on Curry's hand. I mean, it's not just... I mean, I don't get all worked up about load management. I mean, teams are going to do what's best for them.

I mean, that's really what it comes down to. And, you know, Earl Watson made the point, and I thought it was a sensational point and something that really hasn't been talked enough about in this whole load management thing. And it's something that you and I talk about when we talk about fatherhood, the toll of these kids playing 97 games a weekend and all the damage that's done before they get to the NBA. That's the issue. That's what's different. That's what the guys didn't face in the seventies and the eighties and the ninth, right?

All the miles on their tires before they even get to the NBA. So it's, it's not to me, it wasn't so much the load management, but China was not a small thing. I mean, to me, the whole month of October, this was supposed to be this amazing season of, it's so wide open. It hasn't been this wide open in forever. And I just felt like in October,

we were talking about everything else but basketball, but it's a new month. I still, I still, I still enjoyed the season regardless of all the noise about the other stuff, just because the amount, the amount of talent that's out there night to night is pretty staggering

with the Toronto thing. I would hate to see them sell it off because I do think it's not unrealistic they could make the finals again. I think the East is, you talked about the league being wide open. I think the East is wide open. It's wide open. I think the East is actually deeper than we thought. Oh, it is. Miami looks dangerous.

Toronto's playing better. Your Celtics, everybody wrote them off and they they're having a post Kyrie upturn. We'll be talking about that. It isn't just Milwaukee and Philly. No. I said to KOC

on this podcast last week that I thought the top five in the East and the top five in the West were pretty comparable. I don't feel like the West teams, you know, if AD and LeBron are still healthy in May and June, which is possible, then I'd have to readjust the thinking on this. But I think there's real health questions on the Clippers and the Lakers. Like Davis.

So wait a second. So if you loved the Raptors as much as you love the Celtics, you would be fine with them keeping all their guys and not starting them to, to rebuild. You'd want them to play this year out no matter what. So I've heard this point about, well, why wouldn't they just make trades?

I guess my question is, who are they trading with? Those guys have huge salaries. Where are they going? I also think, like, Lowry's making $30 million a year. How many teams can even absorb that? For one more year.

He plays a position of huge need. They can trade him if they want to. They will have options. Yeah, but where? His salaries still have to add up. I can't tell you on November 19th, 18th, whatever it is. I don't know today, but they will have options. I just think it's a lot. There's like 10 teams that...

Minnesota? You don't think Minnesota would want Kyle Lowry? Yeah, but so Toronto's going to just punt on a chance to make the finals so they can get Jeff Teague in a draft pick like I wouldn't do that you think they're on the doorstep of the finals no I just don't think the trade's gonna be there

I think people are acting like it's just super easy to trade really expensive guys same thing with San Antonio where they're going well they'll rebuild, they'll trade to Rosen. Like where,

where are they going to trade the Rosen? Who, who's lining up for their shooting guard, you know, on the downside of his prime making 28 million a year. Where's that guy going? I don't get it. I think it's same thing with Kevin Love.

Everyone's like, well, then when the Cavs trade Kevin Love, it's like, okay, well, there's probably two teams that can even put the salaries together that would

make sense for a Kevin Love trade. And then what is Cleveland getting back? Why would they want to just give away Kevin Love for a bunch of contracts? I think Portland is the team you look at. They have expiring contracts and they have Simons,

and that's a real asset. And if they went to Toronto and they were like, Simons is on the table, here's what we want. That's a trade that would make sense to me. So to your point, maybe in December, stuff like that opens up, but I don't know how much you can count on it. And then you look at the East.

Let's mark this down. November 19th, 2019. Yeah. The day Picasso of the trade machine downplayed the notion of any good deal. A first. I think it's going to be hard. It's a hard history.

I think teams are a little more wary of taking on giant contracts and giving up stuff when there's so much turnover every year. You know, and unless... So Denver is a trade candidate, right? They have contracts. They have some assets. You could argue

if they got a third piece you know, to add to... I hope you're right. I hope Toronto keeps together. I hope I am in Toronto many times in the spring. I cannot go there enough. I wouldn't do it. I am not ready to say that they are,

that they are, they are 100% committed to defending the title. Okay. All right. That's fair. How about, uh, the Celtics are another team in the East. The way they have rallied back, I'm divesting myself just as a Celtics fan here.

The way they've rallied back from what seemed to be the end of an era that never even really started yet. We had this really fun stretch, and then all of a sudden Kyrie was leaving and Horford was leaving. It was like, holy shit. Is this team going to rebuild now? What's going to happen? And now I think they're a contender. Hayward will be back in

four or five weeks, but the combo of getting rid of Kyrie and adding Kemba who is already the most beloved Celtic behind the scenes that I've ever heard anyone talk about. I didn't realize they were acquiring Gandhi. I thought they were getting just an all-star.

I didn't realize he could heal the world. But I've never heard anybody being raved about like this by everybody. Everybody loves this guy. All right, so you start there. But to me, the thing that's been incredible is the Tatum Brown evolution where you have these two forwards in back-to-back drafts, top three picks who are now evolving into these special two-way players at, at their age.

Like they're really good two-way basketball players and they compliment each other. They're interchangeable and it's a real advantage. And I think that's the biggest reason why they're winning. What do you see when you watch the Celts? Well, it's funny because they all, you know,

I was with four of them all, you know, from, you know, for a good portion of the summer in China. And before that, before they left. Yeah.

And I remember in October, I talked to Jalen Brown just about a week, maybe two weeks before he got his extension and tried many times to say, you guys are off to a head start. I mean, you're off to, before you just spent a month together, you guys have a head start. He just wouldn't buy it. Wouldn't agree. Just refuse to give that any credence.

But I think there is something to it. I think so. I mean, Kemba is a lovable guy. He is. And it's great to see this for him because I really, really felt for him this summer. It was

the most overmatched Team USA that they put together that, you know, they had 30 guys say no. And Kemba Walker went there and, you know, they endured this seventh place finish. And every day, Kemba and Donovan Mitchell, especially the two of them, they took all the questions. They took all the heat.

They didn't duck the responsibility for one second. And it was clearly not their dream to be on team usa and go finish seven i mean that was not the plan right so to kind of see how quickly it's flipped and to see boston off to this great start uh it you know i think kemba has a lot of people root for him around the league just the other night i mean he was it was he was so excited because he could never remember mark jackson doing one of his games. I think actually there was a playoff game. I think there was one Charlotte-Miami playoff game.

I don't even know how you confirm something like that. But just how excited Kemba was for that. It just shows you how far off the radar Charlotte actually was. Well, the Celtics are very fun to watch. I highly recommend them just as, you know, it's a very Stevens-y team and they're attacking the basket and all the stuff that was so frustrating about Tatum and Brown last year, just jacking up shots and not trying to get to the line.

And those guys have just blossomed and it's, it's been great to watch. Another thing I love, John Morant. How much have you watched of him? I mean, they've been a shock because I think everybody knew Ja was going to be great and obviously with Zion's injury, I think people thought,

okay, Morant's going to be the rookie of your favorite, but they actually win. I mean, they've been a pretty tough out, which is surprising. And the way Utah comes in there and they pull that one out, I mean, he's been really...

If you want to talk about positivity, I mean, we have seen some rookie surprises. It's been nice. Like, again, it's for an awful awful golden state team the way pascal has played i mean it's it's it's you know this nun story in miami nobody saw this guy doing anything remotely close to what so the way he's been producing so you know that that's been nice to kind of counteract the fact that we still haven't seen zion and we don't know we don't know when we're going to see him. You know, that was another thing that was kind of in my October, my October downer column is that,

you know, Zion's debut was taken away from, from him before he even had a chance. You should call those downer columns, tiny downer, or maybe like email blast them out. Stiny downers. You're just like,

look, my, look, any night on league pass and NBA Twitter is going to be a good night. It is. I'm with you.

I mean, we're always going to love that, but I mean, you got to, you know, in my job, I think I have a responsibility to track the overall health of the league.

I know. I get it. You weren't down when Zion got hurt before he could even play. I mean, the way he ripped up the

preseason. Well, the Zion thing, even he could even play. I mean, the way he ripped up the preseason. Well, the Zion thing, even if you look at the Golden State, I hate not having Curry around, but you could argue for a lot of reasons. If you're going to reboot this, this is the best possible way to do it. I hate losing the Curry season,

but this is the all-time reboot. They're going to have the worst record in the league. They already do. They're a game worse than everybody. They're going to have the worst record in the league. They already do. They're a game worse than everybody. What is going to happen if they win the lottery? What is going to happen? Joe Laker will say they're late years ahead. Wait, I want to go back to John Moran for a second.

I still need to watch him more. I don't have a full feel for him, but I've watched some. And the competitiveness is what really jumps out to me. And it's the same thing with Luka. And we're seeing these guys coming into the league now over and over again that are not just talented, but really give a shit and are really badass competitors.

And John Moran, at the end of these games, he wants to challenge. Like he guarded Kyrie at the end of that Nets game. I was really impressed by that, like really wanted it. He's had some end of the game stuff that makes me wonder if he might even be better than I think we thought he was going to be. And I think everybody thought he was going to be good, but I'm wondering if the ceiling might be a little higher

because he seems like just a badass. Does that make sense? I mean, Memphis needs it because maybe franchise saving is getting a little bit too hyperbolic, but after losing all the guys they lost and starting

over, for them to finish number two in the lottery and get a player like that it might be franchise saving two more things I'm excited about then I'll let you go I know you have parental duties James Harden's almost averaging 40 points a game just seems like we should mention that

40 points a game and shooting the three ball worse than he ever has but you think i i do think that will will come around um he's he's never gonna get his just due until it happens in the playoffs but you know is it his fault yeah i mean i i don't know i i i and you know and you know i'm a D'Antoni guy. I think they're amazing together, and they basically kind of share the same fate. Is history really going to appreciate what those guys do

if they don't win a title? Probably not. But again, this Rockets team, everybody thought trading for Russ was going to be, I mean, I certainly thought it was going to be a disaster. And you can talk about, oh, their schedule hasn't been that tough. They won eight in a row. I mean,

and they've got plenty of holes. Those guys are good. Mike D'Antoni and James Harden are really good together. Historically good together. We did a Book of Basketball podcast about James Harden this week, and Zach Lowe compared him to, unless the playoff situation flips, to guard Carl Malone, which I was really jealous of,

and I plan on stealing down the road once the memory of the podcast fades. I'll just pretend I thought of it myself. But guard Carl Malone is a really good comparison and explains a lot because 50 years from now, people will be looking at Carl Malone's stats and they're going to be convinced he was one of the best five players of all time. Fortunately, people like you and I were there. But Harden, the playoff thing, I feel like he could average 40 a game, and it's at the point now where people go, do in the playoffs.

I'm impressed, but I'm not that impressed. I just want to go on the record as saying, anybody who scores 40 points a game during an entire NBA season, I am impressed. You've won my respect, because that's ridiculous. When Will's the only other person that's done it, you can't discount it. And look, it's a great comparison,

but also think about who has been his consistent Stockton. He hasn't had a consistent Stockton. Yeah. He's had to do it with different sidekicks over the years. His Stockton has been the rules and his ability to be able to take four steps. That was his Stockton. They changed the rules for him.

I'm kidding. I'm just trying to inflame Houston people. They didn't totally change the rules for him. They just kind of, they looked the other way. It was like being on a highway where everybody's going 75 and the cops are like, he's an evil lefty genius.

He really is. Last thing, this battle of LA is really crazy. I've lived here. It was actually 17 years ago this week. And I think these are the two best teams in the league. If LeBron and AD can stay on the floor for seven more months, which again, LeBron's age and the miles that he has

and AD is already banged up and has some weird shoulder thing and just never seems like he's healthy ever, it's really hard to just pencil them in. But from an upside standpoint, those two guys together are really frightening. Yeah, they are.

If healthy, they are the best duo. I mean, they are right out of a textbook dream of your inside-outside guy. Overpowering, too, right? Like, there's a physicality with the combo that I think in a playoff series, if they

can stay on the court, will be really damaging. And then on the Clippers side, Paul George just waltzes back in after he misses the first four weeks and he's immediately an all NBA guy, but now Kawhi's out. And I know I've been to a couple of Clipper games. I didn't love the way Kawhi was running. And I,

I don't know if he's ever been the same since that second round of the playoffs, which he was able to obviously play with and deal with, and they won the title. Something doesn't seem 100% right with his leg, and it's not passing the eye test for me. I don't feel like... No, I don't think there's any question

that he is playing with a tendon injury in that left knee that ain't going away. And it just kind of might, might be who he is. Right. I went to Houston in advance of Paul George making his return. And it ended up that Paul didn't play until the next night, New Orleans, but I basically threw it at Doc Rivers.

You know, are you, I mean, these guys are not, these guys, these guys might not play in 50 games together before the season. I said, they'll play in less than 60, but it might be less than 60 together before the playoffs.

But, you know, does this worry you, Doc? No. When you are talking about the potential of having a modern-day answer to Michael and Scotty, you can play whatever you can get. Don't roll with it. I think they'll be fine. I think what I've seen from Kawhi is he knows how to play with it,

whatever it is. And he can pick his spots. He doesn't overdo it. And he's learned how to play at his own pace. I've never really seen a player like him. I think old Michael Jordan is probably the only comparison. I'm talking like 96, 97, 98, the older Bulls version where he kind of figured out how to just control the pace at all times and play the game at his speed and everybody else would kind of

come to his speed. And that's what I see from Kawhi, especially in these fourth quarters. He's not like going balls out, balls to the wall. It's weird. He's got this kind of herky-jerky slowdown. And the other nine guys in the court kind of gravitate to whatever speed he's at. It's really strange. I don't know how he does it. But, you know, zooming through all these topics that you just kind of thrown out here, it does remind me of the one thing we didn't get into with luca that we should say go what is that

is the one thing about the one thing about luca is it's all been a honeymoon so far and you know the the scrutiny of you know what happens if the mads miss the playoff what happens if they you know lose the first round you know how how will he deal with adversity? That's kind of the challenge and the X factor that we haven't seen yet because we pick apart the star players

with this microscope like we put on Harden. That's the one thing that he has yet to experience. I'll tell you another thing and this goes to your point he will get in a fight this year or next year

it's almost happened a couple times that dude is feisty Bird was like that too Bird was in a few scraps Luka will throw down it's going to happen he's going to throw a punch at somebody he's got a side to him.

The opening night with Bradley Beal was absolutely fascinating. Luca was toying with House of Wizards for the first half. And I mean toying. It was embarrassing. Yeah. And then Beal just took it upon himself to like, this guy is not going to punk us. And I'm just going to, and, and the way those two went at it in the fourth quarter, I mean, it was near blows.

It was really interesting. He's going to punt. I have two Luka predictions for you. Well, I have three. I think he's, I think he will finish in that 29, 99 range. And I think there is a world in which triple-double becomes realistic for like a week. But I think it's too hard. I don't think he can do it.

I think they win at least 48. And I think he throws a punch at somebody. Hopefully it's not you. Or a teammate. It won't be me. All right. Congrats. I don't know how you did it

you had a top 16 all time guy in your life for two solid decades and now another one has landed in your lap the luckiest man alive 21 more years 20 more years of Luca you're going to be like in your late 60s going like just going to be like two thirds of your life

watching superstars this is unbelievable Mark Stein we'll read you in the New York Times how do we subscribe to the newsletter is it easy It's just going to be like two thirds of your life watching superstars. It's unbelievable. Mark Stein, we'll read you in the New York Times. How do we subscribe to the newsletter? Is it easy? All it takes is an email. Just Google Mark Stein newsletter. You'll see a picture that looks like me sleeping, but I'm actually not sleeping.

I'm actually typing on my BlackBerry. Put your email in the little box and you get the newsletter right to your inbox. No hassle. No issue. Every Tuesday. Do you want 10 seconds to talk about the soccer coach that got fired today? Well, you're the big

Tottenham fan, allegedly. Well, I thought, I'm giving you the floor. No, it's just, look, it's Steve Daschle's team. It ain't mine, but it's just amazing. No, look, it's Steve. That's a team. It ain't mine, but it's just amazing. Like we think,

like we think we have this crazy coaching carousel and that, that coaches in this country are under pressure. Yeah. I mean, 2016 Lester wins the most improbable championship in the history of pro sports. And obviously we don't have time to debate it, but just trust me, it was.

The dude was fired by the following February. Wow. Steve Nash is first to the Champions League final for the first time in ever and he doesn't even make Christmas. Insane. Brutal.

Brutal sports. Just wait until Pop gets fired after the 16-game losing streak. Yeah, Pop could lose 60 in a row. He ain't getting fired. No, he's bought too many dinners for everybody. It's too much food and wine. He's keeping his job. Mark Stein,

this was a pleasure. Let's do it again. Let's do it. Alright, we're bringing in Chadwick Boseman in one second. Let's talk about Square. They make that little white reader that lets anyone take credit cards. You gave it to your barber, right? Fernando is out here killing it. Fernando, what does he say?

He said shout out Ringer actually the other day. Did he really? Yeah, he did. See, Fernando's killing it. Running and growing a business takes so much more than payments. That's why Square builds so many more tools that can help point of sale software, invoices you can send from your phone, easy to build websites, access to business loans

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So whether you sell stuff on Instagram or a website, whether you own a restaurant or a retail boutique, whatever, Square has tools for you. See all the ways Square can take your business from Square One to where Fernando's at right now and whatever's next. At square.com slash go slash BS. Loan subject to credit approval and issued by Celtic Bank. Member FDIC.

And one more thing before we get to Chadwick Boseman, the rewatchables, we are basically doing one a week the rest of the way. I'm not on the next couple, but we have a Bond movie. Whoa. Yeah. Which one? I think it's Skyfall. That's this week.

Last week we did the holiday and there was a Simmons on it, but it wasn't me. It was my wife. It was Carrie Simmons' first rewatchables. She did it with Julia Limon and Amanda Dobbins about The Holiday, which is, I think, my wife's favorite movie. So that happened. And then we have a whole bunch more, all leading to the epic Godfather II in December.

Brian Koppelman flying cross-country to join us. That's actually happening. God, I don't know how many hours it's going to be, but it will be at least three. But that is all happening. So subscribe to the rewatchables or refresh your feed if you have subscribed already. Don't forget about Book of Basketball 2.0.

Two pods this week. I think we have one more coming next week. James Harden week this week on the B.O.B. 2.0. And we also have a Twitter feed that you can check out. It's bookobasketball. Couldn't fit the of because it was one too many characters. Bookobasketball. But not only do we tweet the links to the podcast there,

but also some articles and some videos and some other stuff that accompany it. So it's a little addendum feed for the pod. So you can follow that on Twitter as well. All right, let's bring in Chadwick Boseman. All right, so I was looking through your IMDb. You're one sports movie away from being a sports movie hall of famer. Oh, I got to do one. You need one more.

So Vontae Mack. Right. I feel like a pretty iconic sports movie supporting role character. I like that movie. I watch the movie all the time. I love doing the movie like supporting role character I like that movie I watch the movie all the time I love doing the movie you know what I'm saying and

and then you're Jackie Robinson it holds up well I want to talk about that draft day holds up draft day holds up and you're Jackie Robinson but no basketball movie and then

you play basketball what are you doing? oh it's not my fault it is your fault no it's not you have the pull to make a basketball movie now what are you doing well i'll be a coach now i'll be a coach no they no way it still counts if i still counts you look younger than you are you could play like a guy like mid-30s he's at the

end of his line he's playing for like utah oh he's his last leg of his career city he's at the end of his line he's the end of his line, but makes one last run at it. Gets in great shape, meets the right lady. It's a comeback story. I like that part. I like that part. I don't know.

I'm just spitballing. I don't really have the whole idea. But he doesn't count if I play a coach. It's kind of true. It's like coaches are in the Hall of Fame. I guess you could play a coach.

I don't know. Phil Jackson had a championship both ways, you know. You could do that, but you're good at basketball. You're going to take advantage of it. You're right. You're right.

Okay, we'll try to find. It's hard to find a good basketball movie, truth be told. Which ones, which roles are you jealous of? Love and Basketball. Love and Basketball is the one. You know what I'm saying? Like, that would be, it's really hard to, like, to find the right role in, because they're good basketball movies, but the right role.

But Love and Basketball is the, I think the quintessential one that it holds up. I think they're probably going to do that again at some point. Well, it's 20 year anniversary coming up. Yeah. They're going to, it's remakes are happening. It's either going to become a TV show or something like.

Where do you stand on remakes? Cause like I would actually be mad if they remade that because I think it holds up. My daughter really likes it. I just watched it over there a few months ago. And I think it's, I wouldn't change it. Certain things need to stay like the original and don't remake. Like, you can't remake that. No.

But they're going to do it. You do a sequel. You could. You could. You could do it. You could. I'm trying to figure out how I can get you in the sequel it doesn't make sense you couldn't be the son you're not old enough no no no no like just let some stuff be a classic and let it be the only one i mean maybe 20 more years

from now you can do it again you know how bloggers aggregate stuff you say and they may get stories out of it Chadwick Boseman says Black Panther 2 is never happening it stops me from saying a lot of stuff too so how about we do you issue a challenge

to all the screenwriters out there write me a basketball movie I'll make it headline Chadwick Boseman and then thatwriters out there. Write me a basketball movie. I'll make it. Headline. Chadwick Boseman. And then that'll be out there. Yeah. You're one away. Let's do it.

The Sports Movie Hall of Fame. Why couldn't it be like tennis? It could be tennis. It could be. I was just trying to take advantage of the stuff you're good at though. Man, you know, maybe I'm good at it. Because Wesley Snipes was not good at basketball,

but was in White Man Can't Jump, which is an iconic sports movie. Right. But they had to teach him how to play basketball. We did a podcast about it. He did pretty good for a person that was being taught. Yeah. He was a lot of like high dribbles.

Was Woody Harrelson like- Woody Harrelson was good. He was already good. Yeah, he was good. Okay. See, I didn't know that. I had no idea. And now David Duchovny went for the Woody Harrelson role

and he didn't get it wow here's another one who's good Clooney's supposedly good you must don't you play in the sets ever or are you just out you're retired

the only time I've ever played even at the studio is at Warner Brothers they have like they have a pretty cool outside court there and I did that when I was

when I was like training for 42 I would go out and play basketball but other than that I think people are trying to say their knees most of the time yeah they are they are so you know who's good is MBJ yeah yeah he's good he is good yeah I coached him in the celebrity game and it's it was an emotionally scarring experience for him why because he didn't play well he had Kevin Hart

as his point guard who was listen very Allen Iverson-y. Kevin Hart. I love Kevin. But it becomes like a comedy show. Yeah. Well, that's what happened. And then, so he was just, I think he was ready to be like Kobe 2006, Michael B. Jordan in the game. Yeah.

He was ready to be like, clear out. I got this. He didn't get the opportunity. Didn't get it. Yeah. Didn't get it. The year I played- Oh, the celebrity game? Yeah. I played in the celebrity game. soon didn't get it yeah didn't get it with the the year i played um it was celebrity yeah i played i

played in the celebrity game i didn't i didn't even score because of the same thing you're saying because basically what happened is it was like three things that happened one um i was about to do panther and um jesse williams jesse williams got hurt during that yeah he got hurt during that game and I looked over my shoulder and like my refs was like don't you do it like

like jog the rest of the game yeah and and then Anthony I went up for I was about to go up for a basket

and Anthony Anderson I think he thought I was going to dunk on him and he he undercut me and he's been he's been apologizing me. But it was a pretty,

it was like a play, like a, it was like a 90s basketball, playoff basketball foul. It was like a 90s Knicks? Yeah, like it was, it was Knicks Detroit. Like it was like one of those.

And he's, to this day, every time he sees me, he apologizes. But yeah, it was that in combination with like every time you know kevin hart got the ball he was like i'm shooting i'm shooting i'm shooting i'm shooting yeah he

ruined the game for like four years yeah what uh love me to death though were you what's your what you are you perimeter what are you oh i play point guard i play point guard oh interesting i play point guard so in a so in a movie that could work it could work yeah yeah exactly yeah yeah because the other one you box I saw it too

yeah see to me that would be it would be a boxing movie probably like that would be

what I would gravitate towards because I love boxing movies I think it's but it's easy to tell a good story in a boxing movie than it is just just what what you go through when you're a fighter but it's easy to tell a good story in a boxing movie than it is. Um,

just, just what, what, um, what you go through when you're a fighter, that story and the alternate story of the person you're fighting, you're, that's always something where you're in two different places going through the same thing.

And, um, and that drama, that buildup and what, how close you become with the person you're fighting it's always the story you know it's always it always works no matter what and you know it's i just the sweet science is something that i think it's also hard to capture it on camera yeah like it's really hard to do it and to capture it well and somebody doing it well. So you were jealous of Creed?

No, no, I am not. I love it. No, I mean, jealous in a good way. Like, it's a great movie. You wish. No, I always see it like, you know, I always, I'm the person pulling for the boxing movie. I'm pulling for it because I know it's so hard to do. Yeah.

You know what I'm pulling for the boxing movie. I'm pulling for it because I know it's so hard to do. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And I get something from, like, you know, even Will Smith's Ali. You know, I always get something from watching those movies that I don't get from watching other sports movies. Yeah. That's exhilarating. So, nah, it's no jealousy at all. It's like, you know, if you can do it you know if you can do it i'm pulling for you i'm pulling for you it's amazing that they keep being made out of all the sports movies yeah

sports boxing has been going back to like the 30s it's the best one it's to me it's the best like you know it's mano a mano you know it's the it's the training the training you know, it's mano a mano. You know, it's the training. The training, you know, sequences are always going to work. You know what I'm saying? Like, if you do it well, you get a shape for it. What else if you're an actor? You really selling this box movie thing right now. I need to get you in the Hall of Fame.

There's not that many people in there. Burt Reynolds is in there. I didn't even think about that as a possibility. But, hey, let's go for it. Snipes is in there. Omar E Reynolds is in there. I didn't even think about that as a possibility, but hey, let's go for it. Snipes is in there. Omar Epps. Yeah. Trying to think who else.

So my opinion, you have to have at least three really good sports movie roles to be able to get in. Right. Four ideally, but three. So I feel like you have two. Right. But the basketball or the boxing. And you could maybe be a basketball coach like six years you'd bring back coach carter coach carter too coach carter too coach carter surprising amount

of legs or or do or do something similar like you know remember the titan is a great movie too yeah you know that's when that's when actually that every time it comes on like i actually have to watch at least 30 minutes right Right, right, right. At least 30. It's funny. I was looking at the Disney Plus app and Disney's just made a lot of sports movies.

Yeah. And they have, there's a sports movie section and then there's like an inspirational section. And it's just like 30, 35 sports movies, but it's all of those

like Remember the Titans, The Rookie, Miracle. Like they were just cranking them out forever and Titans the rookie Miracle like they were just cranking them out forever and ever in my opinion they should just be coming out

there should there should be a new sports movie like every three months well trust me I've gotten my fair share come across scripts the desk

yeah scripts yeah come across the desk but it has to be you know a lot of them are real they're like they're real they're real people so there's biopics again right so i have to watch you can't make any more biopics i can but it's got to be the right one how many have you done three two or three

let's not even talk about it but they're all good though yes It's not like you made like a bad one. Trust me. Love it. Like I love it. But it's, and I love the process. But it's one of those things like you just don't, you shouldn't do it every time

because the process, there is a slight difference in. But what do you mean the process? What's the process? Well, it's research. You know, it's like you're, you can't just arbitrarily choose to do something. You know what I mean?

Because you owe it to the family. You owe it to the person to sort of live up to certain things. And you have a liberty. You have some freedom within the unknowns. Yeah. But there is like a parameter based upon this is the truth, you know, this is the truth. So I can figure out this in between.

Whereas, you know, if it's, you know, a fictitious character, you can just make up almost, you can make up at least 60, 70% of it, you know? How do you find the balance between impersonating somebody who everybody knows versus creating your own character out of that person because the worst case scenario right is you're just doing an snl sketch impersonation of the guy which is not what you want yeah you don't i don't do an impersonation right right i because there is it there is that's one way to approach it um what i try to do is i try to find you know so i find things that are true and then i i i use that as the foundation to like explore off of that and then if i go to a place that, okay, well, that's not right. That's, that's you.

Like I'm, I'm either mindful of it or somebody else's mindful of it. Like, you know, that, that was, that was you right there. Or that was, that was something else. But, but the impersonation is one where I think you're, you're stuck even more so in a box than what i described before yeah um and and what's dangerous about it is you know when you a lot of times when you're making fun of things you imitate them so like you said saturday night live yeah so so for instance with james brown i was like i can't do an impersonation eddie murphy hot tub james brown celebrity hot tub in your head yeah and and mind you i love eddie murphy too yeah um but if i do that even though most people wouldn't even be able to articulate the difference in the two things like it's gonna become something where i'm making

fun of him instead of paying homage to him and and it's it's subtle but but you know the difference when you see it actually like i know the difference so like i always try to just find things that are true and there's certain things like you know i didn't do jackie robinson's voice you know yeah and at first i i wanted to i was like you know talking to brian hogan he was like nope nope don't do the voice don't do the voice what was his voice i don't even remember it's um distinct it's very distinct and i i hesitate to even try to i'm not gonna but was it like did he have an accent or no it's like it's it's from that time period you know it has that it has that pace and intonation from the very formal very formal and also it's higher pitched than you would expect it to

be. You know, Brian was like, you know, that's going to take us out of the movie because you're so much about that time period that

everybody else in the movie would have to do that same thing for it to work. And so, or do their version of the same thing. It was like, no, no, find, you know, something else that gives us a sense of the time period, but not that exact, you know, thing. And so it became a thing of like, okay, what's the essence of this person

as opposed to an imitation of the person? When you play a real person, a lot of times you're choosing, you're a painter. You're choosing what parts and perspectives you want to show because it's impossible sometimes to show everything and make people follow the story. So it's impossible sometimes to show everything and make people follow the story. So it's a decision, you know. Well, it's funny, like Jackie and James Brown, it's such different energies, right? Jackie, almost like a blank slate, but there's a lot going on, which you did really well in the movie. And James Brown is so much more theatrical. There's a lot going on.

Yeah, there's a lot going on. A lot of mood swings. Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. And, you know, Jackie Robinson, you know, he was fiery at times, too. Well, he was a badass. I mean, I was glad the movie hit some of that stuff because he got his revenge on everybody down the line. He did. Not quite like Michael Jordan.

No. You know what I'm saying? But he was that guy. He was But he was, he's that guy. He was going spikes up. He's that guy. You know what I'm saying? He was slowly getting everybody back. Yeah.

That intensity that makes somebody want to like that. You know what I'm saying? Like, he had that Michael Jordan thing, you know, or Michael Jordan had his thing,

however you want to say it. Did you expect that movie to do as well as it did? Because I remember seeing the trailer and thinking, oh man, I'm glad they're doing this. I wonder who's going to see it. But now I feel like every kid eventually sees that movie. It's going to have a shelf life, I think.

I have to say, I didn't have a real sense of, at that point in time, I didn't have a real sense of like what's gonna do well or what's not gonna do well yeah um because it was my first time playing the league it's my first time having to think about things in that way um and so in my mind i was i was just like i have to just go out here and sell the movie like after yeah we've done it, like, you know, I have to do my best to make sure that, you know, it doesn't fail at the box office. And, you know, people don't know who I am. So I have to let them know who I am and what the movie is. But I didn't have a sense of whether or not that was going to work or not. You know what I'm saying?

Or the movie was going to work or not, you know what I'm saying? Or the movie was going to work. But I had been told a lot of things like that, you know, that a movie like this wouldn't work, you know, all those things, or that if you have a black lead, it won't work. If you have a black lead, people don't know, it won't work, you know? So all those things were things that you're kind of fighting against and I think the studio or and especially Legendary at that time went out on a limb to make sure that that movie was made Legendary put a lot into

making that work so you were I think mid 30s when you did that? what took so long for you to have a leading role was that your choice or did you just not get a break? Um, both. Yeah.

I think it's both. Like, um, you know, part of it is like, I think it's, it's difficult for some actors to, to understand what it is, what is it that you have to do to break through? You know what I'm saying? What's your particular journey to get to that spot where you break through? Or even understanding what does it mean to break through? Yeah. For me, I think that was hard because I was an artist.

You know what I'm saying? I wasn't like I'm trying to play Lee Rose I was in my mind it was more like I have this idea for this play

that I'm writing or this script you know and this this cool thing I want to direct and like it was

my my mind was spread in a lot of different places and so it wasn't it was never about becoming a star actually it was it was never about becoming a star, actually. It was just about being the best artist that I wanted to be.

And I think at a certain point, I came to the realization that if you do this one thing, you can do everything. And so I focused on, I began to focus on, oh, let me just act for right now. Yeah. And so now, you know, I'm able to do the exact thing that I was doing before. It probably, like, you know, I've had a lot of people tell me that you should have went to L.A. sooner. And, like, you know, they were probably right, you know. But I think things happen when they're supposed to happen also.

Like, you know, I'm better suited for the life and the pitfalls that come, you know, because it happened when it happened. You know what I'm saying? Happened later in your life. Yeah, happened later. come you know because it happened when it happened you know i'm saying like i've been later yeah i'm i did i i'm i'm less you know prone to squander it right because it happened when it happened that's like the old george clooney theory right yeah he when he became really successful on er he was much older and if it happened to him younger it would have i mean you you don't know but i i i feel like for me it just it was just a thing of focus like once my focus became oh this is what i'm doing then it just happened you know that's something that's happened to a lot of actors though it

seems like a common theme of people who have been successful are people that... I didn't want it. That's the best way to say it. But breaking into the industry, like doing plays and doing stage and all kinds of things, but not being like, I got to get to that. And then it ends up happening. It happens organically. Yeah. Well, to me, it's like, because I'll have people that will, you know'll they'll see me out or they'll see me um you know i just did this revolt summit for uh for uh puff and um you know it's all about you know telling your story and letting people see that it can be done yeah and people will will like they want success to happen for them really quickly and i was always of the mindset of just respecting the art form like respecting the people that came before me and respecting

the respecting the you know the the craft like you know have good teachers have have have find your own what is your method of acting you know like and and not not doing somebody else's method and trying to approval seek but finding what is what works for you um and i think it's always been you you know, that was success, not necessarily like, you know, making a whole bunch of money or people or fame or after a while you want to pay your bills and you got goals in life. Yeah. Like, OK, now I'm ready for this. But it's it's always been more about about the craft and more about when you get in that opportunity you want to be able to like to actually capitalize on it did you put on weight for vante mac i must have a lot of weight for that you're almost unrecognizable yeah i put on a lot i i think i've changed did you pass all the pd tests after that did you fail did you get suspended from the set for six weeks?

I should have. I put on about, it was super quick. In a month, I put on 25 pounds. Oh, wow. It was stupid. It was the most unhealthy weight gain I've ever heard of. Yeah. It was at least 25, maybe less than a month just eating eating protein

like and no no steroids but like it's like i don't really know how i did that but i i put on so much weight for that there's a news article and you're like i don't know how that got into my system like with the athletes dude now yo due now. I don't understand. I was taking something for fertility. Can you explain in 20 seconds how Costner gets all his pics back? How what? In Draft Day, the plot. I can know.

No way in the world. I don't think anyone can. Well, see, the hard part is that i watch when i do a movie it's a flaw huh it's a flaw in the movie yeah yeah well what it is but but i still love it i say this out of love yes it's a flaw but when i when i do a movie i don't go back and watch them like that's it. You move on. I move on. It's very rare that I will sit and watch a movie that I've done. And the only reason why I've seen, I think, half of Draft Day, and I was like, this movie holds up, is because I was with somebody else who was like, no, we're going to sit and watch this.

It's the greatest Cleveland Browns moment of, I think, the last 60 years. Yeah. Since 1964. Costner getting his picks back. Yo. It's not a lot of highlights for the Browns fans. And it makes me pull. I'm not a Browns fan, but it makes me start to pull. I pull for them for at least the

first half of the year just to see if they can have a Vontae Mack moment. The reason that works as a sports movie and why it's grown on me is the side characters I'm really interested in. Vontae Mack's not in the movie that much, but I'm like, I'm in on this guy. I wish he was in more scenes.

And the same thing for the quarterback. He decides not to draft and they did a good job. I always feel like that's the key remember the titans is like that too yes where um the two linebackers who become friends like i just i just like those guys i want to spend more time with them but they're not in there that much yeah but that always works yeah i forgot you were in the uh you were in the ernie davis movie yeah but you were but it's not it's not enough to get me in the hall of Fame no but it gets it helps the candidacy you had speaking lines in it

you had Floyd Little he's a legend as well but I feel like when you're saying you do three sports movies you need to be three three iconic parts yeah exactly Floyd Little is iconic now it's just I'm only in there at the end

so yeah well if you do the boxing movie maybe creed three maybe it's creed hey creed's cousin i can come in as a cousin or something well i talked to michael about it you know i think i think they would go for that what did you know him before you did Black Panther? We've known each other a long time. Yeah. Yeah. I've known him since he was in New York. He's a BS podcast favorite.

He's an OG on this. We've gone way back. I think he was on my old one at Grantland. And yeah, he's been on here for a while. Yeah. Yeah. We go back. So, and he's telling you about Coogler.

And he's like, do this movie. What movie? For Black Panther. Oh, you're saying Coogler wanted him to do it. No, I'm saying Michael B. Jordan's telling you about how good he is as a director, I'm sure. Oh, no, he didn't have to tell me that. No. Because you knew from Creed.

I knew from, well, I knew from Fruit that nah um cause you knew from Creed I knew from well I knew from Fruitvale yeah I knew from I knew yeah that's all you have to you have to see that that's when he came on the podcast initially that's I think um you know the thing about Marvel

is I think what they always try to do is pick, they're not picking directors that do big movies like that. They're picking the director that does the small movie. Yeah. And so that there is like a push-pull confrontation between this, you know, their machine and then a filmmaker that wants to, that has a voice and a vision. So, I mean, to me, for a Panther, that's what you needed.

You had to have somebody that had intentionality, that they wanted to do something particular with this movie. They didn't want to just make another Marvel movie. Hey, let's talk about Luminary, a podcast subscription service with some of the best content around. I'm excited about Luminary. It's the only place that I can listen to

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only $7.99 per month. Luminary.link slash Simmons for two months of free access. Cancel anytime. Terms apply. Did you have a moment before you actually did the movie where you're like, am I sure I want to do this? This is going to be a really huge movie

and it's probably going to change my life? Yeah. No. No. No, I knew it was going to change my life for sure. You're saying, was this going to be such a big thing that I didn't want all of that? I didn't want that smoke.

Am I ready for this? Yeah. I knew I was ready for the task at hand. um to be honest like for as far as like the the every the everyday things about your life that change um um fame whatever those things like i i try not to think about that most of the time like and going into something like you you just you just can't worry about that because it also might not like yeah like it might not change um and i and i think there's for a lot of actors there's this misconception because you don't have a sense of like the reach of everything like in in the in the layperson people don't have a sense of like the reach of

the things that they do like yeah if i go home and i talk to my family they'll say well when are you gonna get on they'll name some tv show that's not as big as anything i've done right and i'm like i'm not gonna go back and do that like that's crazy when you go to chicago fire but in there in there that's my that's my show like that's my we gonna get on that show like but it's in in in sometimes in actors minds they have this false sense of like what their fame is or how big of a reach they have it and i learned that you you know you have to sort of like just do the work and let all that stuff sort of come to you when it comes to you yeah because it's it's it's building it can build something that's unhealthy in your head so for me it's all about you know really the people you get

to work with like that's the beauty of it all like i think of the people that i've had the opportunity to work with and that blows your mind like you know it blows your mind that you get to actually like if you wanted to learn this craft and then you get to sit across, you know, the camera from a J.K. Simmons or, you know, a Harrison Ford or any, many of the actors that I've been around, you know, Robert Downey Jr. You're like, oh, wow, this is, this is why I started doing this. So I'm not going to trade, like, that's worth it. That's what's worth it is that you, that you get to do it with the best people the the other part is like you know you some of it you love and some of it you don't you know some of you know as far as life is concerned and the parts you don't you just try to avoid it when

you can kyle wanted to know that's kyle over there how many how many photos have you had to pose the last five years with with somebody doing that doing the hands across i don't if i don't want to do it i don't do it how many times do you get asked is this just part of your everyday life nobody nobody asked me to pose like that except for weird situations when they do it. That's good. That makes me happy. Yeah. That remains my faith in humanity.

I think they know better to ask me that. Because it's like the boxer. Anytime there's whatever boxer, they have to put their sugar and letter. Their hands got to go up for some reason. Come on, give me a fist. I'm glad that doesn't happen. Most of the time, you know, I'm trying to think. It's always somebody like, man, can I get this?

And I'm like, you can do it. Right. I'm just going to stand next to you. You can do it. You can do it all you want. And then probably asking for the sequel, right? Who's asking for the sequel? Just everybody. Oh, people are definitely like, when is the sequel right who's asking just everybody oh people are definitely like when is the sequel happening they're ready yeah like people are upset that it's going to

take so long it's what is it 2022 yeah yeah but it's definitely happening it's definitely happening yeah but for me that's not that long because know, I know what they have to do to get, you know, to prepare for it, for us to shoot it. And then the post-production, like, it's a lot. It's a lot of work. The only thing we know for sure about the sequel is that Angela Bassett's still going to look fantastic, no matter what year you make it. She's the eighth wonder of the world. She's the eighth wonder of the world. Yeah's the eighth one of the world yes she is yeah it's unbelievable that's my mama you're talking about she's on nine she's on 9-1-1

i think she's like 60 now it's unbelievable she's amazing she's amazing she looks amazing she doesn't she stays in shape though she doesn't age she does not she does not. She does not. Like, I have nothing to say about it except for you are 100% right. I'm trying to make sure I say the right thing. We gave her props and that's what she needed. Yeah. What was your SNL experience like? You know what? You must have loved that.

It's so weird, right? I didn't think I would at first. I thought it was just gonna be so nerve-wracking and especially during that time i was like do i really need it's the craziest thing you ever do yeah like i don't know if anybody else thinks that but no everybody says that it's the craziest thing you ever do because you you you don't know what to expect and if you did know what to expect it would be even worse so like even like I've you know

thinking about going back doing another one I'm like I'm excited but then at the same time I'm like it's gotta be I gotta be ready for it but it's because it's the first time in a long time that you've been

in that type of experience as an actor where you're like, this could completely bomb. Like, I have no control over this. We can't do another take. It's not even like a play where you've had, you know, a month of rehearsal. Right. You literally just got these scripts on thursday and you didn't even they're not complete and you had you had way more than the ones you do so you've been working on things that you're not even gonna do and even that day you've actually done like this uh preview

performance that had the rehearsal. The rehearsal. And the rehearsal is always better than the live performance. Yeah. Because you have like this really hype crowd that comes in. So that's actually one of the hardest things if you've ever, you know, done a play or stage is like the first, the opening night is great. The second night you're trying to live up to opening night in your head, in your head.

And it is, and it always falls flat of that. So the one you do on TV is that is like falling flat of the one you did. Yeah. They're opening. So it's the craziest experience. It's like all the changes, you know,

and how quick it is. And, and, and you just kind of fly by the seat of your pants. Really. 21 Bridges. 21 Bridges. Proud of it.

It seems like you're really fired up about this movie. It's fun. It was a fun experience because, you know, it's the first thing i'm doing um you know away from marvel in a minute yeah and um you know i'm a producer on the movie yeah uh and you know just it's it's been great to sort of to help put this cast together um we have we have a great cast jk simmons uh one of my favorite actors uh sienna miller is outstanding she has another movie coming out right now i think it's called america woman which i'm excited about seeing um stefan james great actor and and um really really wanted him in the movie because you you, you have two sides

sort of playing against each other. I think we needed him and Taylor Kitsch on that other side and they kill it. You know what I'm saying? It seems like it's a 90s throwback movie. It is.

Is that fair? I haven't seen it yet. It's partially like a 90s throwback movie or partially a 70s throwback movie. Oh, look at you. So it feels, it's it it feels you know it feels a little bit like french connection it feels a little bit like the fugitive it feels it's it's like it feels a little bit like heat you know it has it has that

sort of like intense drive to it so as soon as like the the action, it doesn't really stop. You know what I'm saying? That sounds like a movie I would watch 10 times. Because you named all movies that I love and I watch over and over again. Do you get to yell at any point, shut down the bridge? At the top of your lungs? Or no? Because I would have recommended that.

Deadline did not make it in. Didn't get in? It was in the first draft. Shut down the bridge! No. Nothing? No recommended that didn't get in it was in the first draft shut down the bridge no nothing no it didn't that's hilarious

are you a good guy or a bad guy you don't know everybody's a little bit okay everybody's it's one of those movies everybody's a little bit dirty

I don't know who to trust yeah your first time movie cop role I don't remember first yes alright so we banged that out. Now we gotta Yeah.

Now you gotta do the boxing and basketball. Hey, it's a few things. It's a few things before that, though. It's a few things we got before that. Listen, the basketball is a show for if you have I would say three years left. No. No, look.

Here's why I'm gonna make the case no because you have the basketball scenes those are hard you gotta do those for like two months no listen

I know physically you gotta do it now that's the that's the reason why that's the reason why I'm not doing it because I gotta go back

to Panther like that's you know how you can pull an Achilles pull a oh yeah you're smart you can carry yourself yeah cause the pull a- Oh yeah. You're smart. You didn't carry yourself.

Yeah. Yeah. It's like- Because the boxing, I feel like you could push back. Denzel did- When did he do a hurricane? He must've been late forties when he did that, right? Yeah.

Something like that. Yeah. You could get away with that. You just get in good shape. Nobody will know. I don't know about the basketball movie thing. Like in my mind, in my mind, it's the basketball team. It's going to have to be a coach.

We figured it out. Yeah. I said it from the beginning. You said no. Well, I tried to fight it. But maybe there's a scene where you play against the kids because they don't respect you enough. And that's when you get to show off the chops.

Hey, I think you need to write this movie. I'm just spitting on for you writer director there's one scene where you scrimmage with the kids to really lay down and that would get me in that would get me in the hall of fame yeah okay yeah that would help Sam Jackson coach Carter

that counts for he doesn't have enough of a resume but it would have counted you know Denzel and he got gang you know he has and apparently for a resume, but it would have counted. You know, Denzel and he got gang. You know, he has the, and apparently, you know, he has a scene where he plays

one-on-one with Ray Allen. Yeah, that story's true. He scores the first four points. Yeah. He told that story on this podcast. And Spike was telling me this summer, you know.

Yeah. And he was like, yo, it's true. Like he, Denzel came in. It was worse than that though because he said he rope-a-doped Ray Allen. He was talking about how he didn't have a left hand. He couldn't go left.

And then he went left. And then he went left. And then Ray Allen was like, what's going on? He didn't get left. Yeah. Hey, man. That's how you do it. The game starts before.

All right. Before we go, you're a giant sports fan. You don't have the chance that much to talk sports nah do the thing let's do it let's want to talk we're taping this before lamar versus watson right so hopefully that was an awesome game but heading into that game you who are you more fired up about uh i'm a deshaun watson fan so you're in the school of Watson. I'm in a school. I mean, I grew up. I'm from Anderson, South Carolina. He went to Clemson.

You know what I'm saying? So, you know, they played before. You know, they played before when he was at Louisville. When Lamar was at Louisville. So we've seen this battle before. I already know it's going to be amazing. Who won that one? I don't even remember.

Clemson won. Clemson was ranked number five. Louisville was ranked number three. So when Watson drops to like 12, are you going nuts in the draft? I'm like, well, with

both of them. Both of them. 32. Both of them dropped. Nowhere in the world either one of them should have dropped. You know, I was like, everybody's going to pay for that. Both years. I was like, people are going to regret letting them go. And look at it now.

You know what I'm saying? Look at both of them. I mean, it's one of the defining things that's happened in football this decade is teams just whiffing. Kyle and I, who's also a Pats fan, I'm a Pats fan, we were sitting on this couch because i had to do a podcast after that draft and lamar is falling and the pats have the 31st pick and we're like this is amazing we're gonna get lamar the whole league is so stupid belichick's gonna do it again

belichick then we passed on him and you were like oh we took sony michelle and we were like oh my god yeah and then baltimore traded in and that happened, because the Ravens are kind of our arch nemesis. When they got him, we were like, oh my God, this is done. He's going to be good. Yeah. The Ravens are like the only team that constantly is able to challenge the pass. Constantly. Yeah.

They're not scared. Even the 07 season when we went undefeated in the regular season, they should have beaten us. We got saved by this pass interference call. So you love Watson. I'm worried. I think his team's too banged up, unfortunately, for him to do much this year.

The problem is defense. I think the difference in the game is going to be that Baltimore has the better defense than the Texans do. Yeah. So when you're on these movie sets, are you like watching Lee pass and all that stuff? Are you one of those guys? No, no, no, no, no.

If I'm doing a movie, that's a different type of focus. You know what I'm saying? It's like I'll take the time to see sports center you know but i do watch sports center you know i do i do make sure i stay abreast of what's going on um or i'll choose you know one show whether it be first take or something like that and i'm like okay well it's everything that's going on so you get like a half hour steven i have to i have to i have to yeah i have to stay abreast of what's going on. Have you gone on that show?

I have, yeah. First take? I think I'm about to go on there again soon. Oh, nice. So, yeah. Well, this is more exciting. I think us talking sports is more exciting. This is a conversation.

First take, they're just moving people in and out. This is really special. Yeah, yeah. We got to talk Clippers-Lakers. Okay. Who's your favorite NBA team is like, this is really special. Yeah, yeah. We got to talk Clippers-Lakers. Okay. Who's your favorite NBA team? Now that's the thing. I only have a favorite college team.

I'm a Tar Heel fan. NBA is more about the players, more about the stories. But I keep abreast of like all the teams though. So you just follow the players? I follow the players. I follow the teams too. So you're like a Gen? I follow the players. I follow the teams too. So you're like a Gen Z,

even though you're older than Gen Z, you're like the 20 somethings now. Yeah. That just follow the players from team to team. Yeah, I do. I do. I mean, I'm just being for real.

Like it's like, I'm not, I'm not like, oh, I'm pulling for, I think by, I'll watch the stories and then I'll decide, okay, this is who I want to win this year. That's, that's pretty much how I'll do it. So then I'll decide, okay, this is who I want to win this year.

That's pretty much how I'll do it. So who'd you decide on? We're not there yet. We're not there yet. I think if we choose between Clippers and Lakers right now, which I think is a fair argument.

Yeah. I feel like the Clippers are a better team. I think the Clippers are stacked. I think they have a lot of killers on that team. Let me just say it that way. I agree. That's the guy you

that's the guy you hate you know, you hate him when he's not on your team and you love him when he's on your team. You know, like Patrick Beverly is like that. You know, like Patrick Beverly is like that, you know, Kawhi is like that. They're,

they're just deeper in it. Like they haven't even had Paul George, you know, you know, I think they get him back tonight. And so, so that's going to be when they have him and Kawhi with Beverly, whatever shooter. Right right and then Harold

that's going to be a pretty great starting five but I do I have to say this I think the Lakers they have a chance like because of their size because because you know teams are not built that way because of how agile um um their big men are the ability to protect the realm in the playoffs like that with with mcgee with dwight howard the way he's playing i love that you're counting on dwight howard dwight dwight howard is is for real like he's still he's even hitting free throws now everyone around everyone thinks that and i'm like this is great he's gonna let you down and i'm gonna enjoy it listen but that's why they have they have a two-headed monster you know i'm saying

so you know i think their success is based upon when they play anthony davis they can't do it the whole game because they need they need that shot blocking but they gotta have the death squad with him playing center yeah and the and the floor spread at the end of the game and if they have that you know with with with lebron able to just sort of see the floor and find shooters it could be hard to beat him you know he's going for the assist title this year lebron i think yeah he's got like a two assist lead here's my thing with the lakers i don't trust dwight howard i don't trust Davis' health. He already has like three injuries.

Yeah. They're already like, yeah, he can't play. His shoulder hurts. And he said him last night because of his shoulder, yeah. Yeah. And it's, the dude just can't stay on the court. And what it takes to actually win the title, it is eight months. It's a hundred games.

And it's really this marathon for nine It is eight months. It's 100 games. And it's really this marathon for nine straight weeks, 16 games, four rounds, or 16 wins, four rounds. I just don't trust that he can make it. But you know what I see that's different? I see that he's mindful of that now. Yeah. He's mindful of the fact that he has to stay healthy and he has to play a little hurt. I see him pushing himself a little bit further. So it depends.

I think there's always something that makes a person go to a different level. Maybe being around LeBron is going to do that. Because let me, you can talk about LeBron being hurt last year, but that's the first time in his whole career that he's ever been unable to play. It's not the first time he's been hurt. It's the first time he's been unable to play. He's like the Angela Bassett of the NBA. It's just like you don't even know what year it is anymore with him. He is there.

It's like 2018 or 2007. What's going on? What's love got to do with it? When you go to the games, are the players talking to you and calling you out? Yeah.

Some of them. Yeah, yeah. All the movies you've been in are all like in the wheelhouse of like, you know, all those guys are doing are watching movies

in their suites. Like, they can't go anywhere. Yeah. What's LeBron gonna like go walk downtown? We're watching the game in the trailer. Yeah. So, yeah. suites like they can't go anywhere yeah what's lebron gonna like go walk downtown we we're watching and we're watching the game in the trailer yeah so yeah it's yeah we there's a

there's definitely um you know acknowledgement i think you need to pick and i think you need to announce the pick between the two la teams i don't think you can straddle the fence you live here i think you have to pick a side right Right now. You have to wear a hat. Do I need to pick right now? By December 15th. Okay. I'll come back. I'll come back and pick.

I think you need to make a statement. You go to a game and you got a hat of one of the teams and it's like he has chosen. It's not fair for anybody to have to pick yet because Kuzma just came back and Paul George is just coming back. So I think we need to see like a couple of weeks of that. And then we can make an educated guess. That's what I feel is fair. If somebody offers you Clippers tickets, somebody offers you Lakers tickets, which one are you more excited about?

Lakers. Oh, so you already picked. Yeah. No, no. That was a pick right there. That's not a pick. That's not a pick. No, no.

They just treat you better when you go as a star. It's the truth. It's the truth. They're more celebrity friendly? They are more

celebrity friendly. See, the Clippers are still working out of the Donald Sterling era. Yeah. They're still trying to figure out

the whole buttering up people part. They haven't gotten that part down. They need to work on that. Interesting. Yeah. Well, the Lakers part down. They need to work on that. Interesting.

Yeah. Well, the Lakers, that's what they're the best at. They're the best. Yeah. I'm just saying, if we're talking about the whole experience of a night out, you know. Right. There's a different energy at Laker games, too. Oh, yeah.

The Clipper games has a lot of people that don't actually care about the Clippers, but the Lakers have 60 years of fans. Right. They've been here forever. Yeah. I mean, it matters that you have, you have the banners up, you have championships up there. Like people, there's a, there's a culture of. Generations of fans. Yeah.

And, you know, it's, it's a, it's a thing to sit you know in a Lakers game and like if I it's like it's like the you know the Cotton Club

of basketball right right if if Nicholson ever stops going what actor would you want

to get his seats because I was making this case to Denzel I thought Denzel was the natural legacy. Did he say he wanted the seats?

The weird thing about Denzel is he's also a Knicks fan. I was calling him out for being a sports bigamist. He's from that. That was his point. He's like, I'm Denzel Washington. I can do whatever I want. I was like, that's a great point.

You can do whatever you want. I was like, that's a great point. You are. You can do whatever you want. He can, yes. Who should get the seats, though? Because you could go younger, too. Yeah, I'm not sure who deserves to. Because it's not just about... It's who's...

Because it's somebody that's been sitting there you know wanting those seats all these years that that deserves it right and it can't be somebody that falls into it yeah and you know i don't know if anybody you know i was gonna say dicaprio because he i think i see him at games he's had a lot leo's probably the safest bet but i think he does work too much i think the great thing about jack was he does work too much i think the great thing about jack was he he once he hit the mid-80s he was basically he's like i'm showing up yeah he's making his movie schedule around laker games yeah um i don't know if leo would be ready to do well i would say he could share it with somebody else because he doesn't

when he doesn't shoot he doesn't try to shoot like three and four movies in a year. You know, he shoots, he's like, I'm shooting one big movie that, that, you know, matters to me. And then the rest of the time he can go to the Lakers games, you know, and he can share it with somebody else if it conflicts. You know, I don't know. When you were at Howard, were you going to Bullets games? Definitely not. I didn't know when you were at Howard were you going to Bullets games definitely not I didn't have no money like what are you talking about

you're sitting there at Bulldogs it was way cheaper back then nah nothing I was not I was not going there you know

you're not traveling in to see whatever terrible Bullets team was in there sometimes I wouldn't even go into our Howard games like you know what's going on with the Howard sports team they ever figure that out The double bullet team was in there? Sometimes I wouldn't even go into our Howard games. What's going on with the Howard sports team?

They ever figure that out? They're working on it. Who's their big rival? Well, it's always Howard Hampton. Right. Who's the real HU? That's the thing. But Hampton's usually good, right?

Hey, let's not talk about how it happened all right we had we had you know some promising moments last year in football um you know cam newton's brother little brother uh yeah it was playing quarterback and other than that i don't really know what i could point to the thing is this is i went to holy Cross in Massachusetts. It's so easy to be good at basketball. I always look at the Gonzaga model. It's basically four scholarships a year or five, whatever. And you just need to make the NCAAs once, get some people. And then all of a sudden, I feel like Howard could do that pretty easily. Well, that's something a friend of mine, we were talking about. How do you build a really good program at an HBCU?

And you're right. It is much easier. In football, it's like you have to have a whole- Football's impossible. It's like an army of recruiting. You need 50 scholarships. Yeah, it's impossible. Basketball, you need a couple celebrity boosters.

I think you count. Yeah. Get a couple other ones from howard and you guys no and you guys just be like hey we're taking this seriously are you saying we're gonna pay the players no i think you build better facilities you could donate donate better gym or whatever it take better dressing rooms i thought you would like locker rooms i thought you maybe you pay the players at the table yeah maybe this is your sports movie that would if we you play an actor who tries to save Howard basketball,

but crosses a couple lines. Right. Yeah, we can play that whole NCAA thing, pay a player's name. That actually is, hey, we shouldn't even say this. Cut that out. Cut that out. Cut that out.

That's going to be the movie. All right. Thanks for coming on. Yo, thank you, man. All right. Thanks to State Farm. Thanks to Mark Stein and Chadwick Boseman. Thanks for coming on. Yo, thank you, man. All right. Thanks to State Farm. Thanks to Mark Stein and Chadwick Boseman. Thanks to Square, the company that makes that little white credit card reader and makes

Fernando very happy. Square also makes pretty much anything you need to run and grow any kind of business, point of sale, payroll, online stores, invoicing, whatever. See how Square can take your business from square one to whatever's next at square.com slash go slash BS. I am coming back on Thursday. Don't forget to listen to this Book of Basketball 2.0 podcast if you like that feed. And we will see you later in the week.

Happy birthday, Kyle. On the wayside, I never said I don't have feelings within On the wayside, I never said I don't have feelings within