The Bill Simmons Podcast - A Haliburton/LeBron Finals, the Zion Dilemma, Buffalo’s Big Break and Week 14 Picks With Rob Mahoney, Wosny Lambre and Peter Schrager

Episode Date: December 8, 2023

The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Wosny Lmabre and Rob Mahoney to discuss the NBA In-Season Tournament Semifinals including LeBron James' flawless performance in the Lakers' 133-89 victory over the Pelicans, Zion Williamson concerns, and Western Conference contenders (1:56), before talking about Tyrese Haliburton's incredible game vs. the Bucks, a look ahead to Lakers-Pacers in the Final, and more (24:12). Then Bill is joined by NFL Network's Peter Schrager to discuss the upcoming Eagles-Cowboys matchup, the Chiefs' confidence meter, how to view the Dolphins' season so far (54:59), as well as Bills-Chiefs, what the Bears will do with their draft capital, Justin Jefferson's return to the Vikings, Rams-Ravens, and more (1:19:53), before Bill makes the Million Dollar Picks for NFL Week 14 (1:54:23). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Rob Mahoney, Wosny Lambre, and Peter Schrager Producer: Kyle Crichton The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming, please checkout theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Coming up live from the in-season tournament at Vegas. Plus we're going to do some football next. It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. Football is in full action. FanDuel's highest rated sports book is the best place to bet it all. We've been doing pretty well on million dollar picks this year. I love the first month of the season because you have to go into the season thinking, I think Pittsburgh's going to be good. I think the Chargers are going to be thinking, I think Pittsburgh's going to be good.

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You can check out all of our sports and culture podcasts and everything else we're doing. We had a live show that was scheduled for Vegas last night that we had to cancel because there was a shooting at UNLV. Three people died, a fourth was injured and the shooter was then killed by police. It was really scary. And this is a city that had a truly awful shooting at Mandalay Bay seven years ago, a mass murder in 2017. So obviously it's always the biggest fear when you're in Vegas because there's just a lot of people

and a lot of people come in and out. But we ended up canceling the show, obviously. And our condolences are with the families and everybody on campus. I have a daughter in college. There's no scarier thought than sending your kid away to college and then having something like that

happen. So I'm really sorry that we couldn't do the live show, but obviously we couldn't. And sorry for all the people that might've come here to go to it. We're going to try to make it up at some point over the next couple of months. So stay tuned for that. And UNLV, everybody there, you're in our prayers. We're going to talk in a second about the in-season tournament at Las Vegas with Big Waz and Rob Mahoney, and then Peter Schrager is going to come on and we're going to talk football with him. First, our friends taping this.

It is 8.45 Pacific time. I am in Las Vegas. Just went to both of the NC's tournament games. I sat with Big Waz. Rob Mahoney was too cool for school. He just stayed in the Vegas. Just went to both of the NCAA tournament games. I sat with Big Waz. Rob Mahoney was too cool for school. He just stayed in the bay. But we wanted to have him on as well to get the TV takes of what he saw

from our television. We watched the Lakers absolutely murder the Pelicans. And we saw an awesome Pacers Bucks game. Rob, we weren't with you. So what do you want to start with? You want to start with Lakers-Pelicans? You want to start with our thoughts on Zion in person? Or do you want to start with Tyrese Halliburton

being the best guard of all time? I kind of want to hear about the building in person. Like, how was it being in the room for the first true NBA doubleheader? Well, I mean, Waz, don't you agree the first game and the second game felt like completely don't you agree the first game and the second game felt like completely

different sporting events the first game yeah it was it was quiet in like a good way it was a little JV basketball-ish

like yeah but in a good way for varsity yeah they weren't playing music during the game you know I'm used to going to like

these Clipper games where they're they're just playing 70s disco and Shakira, and it's just blasting during key possessions. And in this, it was so quiet. We were sitting close. We could hear everything.

We could hear them talking to the refs. We could hear Carlisle yelling at Ben Matherin. We could hear Hal Burton talking shit to Portis. And it was like I hadn't had an experience like that a basketball game in 15 years i was like this is gonna be amazing for lebron we'll get to hear everything lebron says second game wise what happens it was a broadway production it was even more than that like all the pyro techniques the craziness you know the laker girls had to come out before the introduction like the lakers if you go to a Laker and a Clipper game, it's like completely opposite, right?

Like the Lakers do the curtains come down. They're like, we're giving you a show. And they brought the show on the road to Vegas. And the second game definitely had that more Laker atmosphere to it, for sure. Yeah, there's music during the play. There were a ton of Laker fans. And LeBron... Always in Vegas.

LeBron was awesome. That was the best. I've seen him every year that he's been on the Lakers. I actually thought that was the most explosive and best that he's looked in any game I've been to with LeBron. What did it look like on TV? Very much that. Him being in complete control I've been to with LeBron. What did it look like on TV? Very much that.

And just him being in complete control of this game, which in and of itself is not surprising. You know, like of all the things to worry about on a basketball court, I have not once worried that LeBron will show up for a game that matters. But the way he got anything he wanted against the Pelicans, you know, they tried packing the paint. They tried zoning it up a little bit. They tried throwing a bunch of different looks at him.

Seemed like he got pretty much any kind of look he wanted, whether it was one for him or somebody else. And the fact that he treated really this entire tournament like something worth winning, it has what made it something worth winning. And so that's why I can't wait to see him and this Lakers team against the Pacers who have taken a similar approach. We get a true battle of the undefeateds in the NBA tournament

championship. This is a league where the unbeaten teams actually get to compete for the championship here in the NBA. Right. Well, Waz was telling me that LeBron's wanted to win this in-season tournament since he was a kid. That's what he said in an interview last week. He heard about it a long time ago, yeah. He's dreamed of being the NBA Cup MVP. Waz, you were equally in awe. Like, LeBron, it was like a borderline. I'm kind of in awe of what's happening. You're the 21st year.

I know everybody's year 21. He's so old. But like, this was fucking crazy. Holy shit. It is. It is crazy. And the part that I love the most is the hamming it up. It's like he really relishes the moment when he took that final third three in the first half the energy. And then my favorite part, honestly, was the Pelicans started having some success with a zone defense and LeBron wasn't on the court.

And then LeBron comes on the court. He's just like, guys, you can't zone me up. I'm one of the greatest passers that's ever lived. Two straight dimes for threes. And I was just like, man, this guy, like you said, Rob, is just in complete control. And he's loving every single moment. You know, he does the custom handshakes with all his teammates, getting them hyped up and involved. It's just really incredible to watch, honestly. Yeah. The only person who enjoyed that long three more than you did was Christian Wood. I don't know if you guys saw it in the arena, but we got cutaway after cutaway after cutaway to Christian Wood going full home alone hysteria after that LeBron logo three.

I don't fully understand it because it should be getting worse, not better. But he had real disdain for the Pelicans, which I thought was interesting. And I don't know what the genesis of that is, or maybe they were just in his way. But the Pelicans, which I thought was interesting. And I don't know what the genesis of that is, or maybe they were just in his way. But the entire game he was just like, I'm going to demolish you guys. Every time he's got on the rim, he's like, not one of you guys are going to

be in my position. Guardian is from the tip? Or Guardian Zion? Zion, excuse me, sorry. Just completely neutralized him. Not only Guardian Zion, but playing seven feet off him just to fuck with him. That was mean. Zion had the ball 22 feet from the basket, and

LeBron was in the paint, just like, go ahead, dude. Knock yourself out. And you're not going to be able to go by him either, because I'm as strong as you, and it's not happening. Yeah, there was mind game shit happening, and there was a performance element, which actually reminded me of the first part of his career in Cleveland in the first two MVP seasons in 09 and 10, when he really figured

out the performance, these people are here to see me and really fed off it. Then he went to Miami, became the villain. Then he was the best player in the league and he had to act certain ways. Now he's hamming it up again. It's like watching Pacino in Sea of Love. Waz and I just did that and we watched most of it. But he's like, there's a performance aspect to some of this stuff that I don't know. It just seems like he's enjoying

the ride was my take. You agree, Waz? After every single timeout or TV timeout, he goes to the Little Lakers section and he starts whooping it up with them, encouraging them to go nuts. It's just, he goes to the little Lakers section and he starts whooping it up with them, encouraging them to go nuts. It's just, again, from the opening tip, the way that he's running the break and filling lanes and again, taking a serious defensive aside. Like this is stuff he does in the playoffs. Like, and by the way, doesn't the playoffs like game three and four, right? Not

game one, even in the playoffs playoffs a lot of times in the playoffs lebron treats those first two games as feeling out processes he came out today he's like no i'm gonna guard the other team who is allegedly the other team's best player and i'm gonna take the assignment seriously and yeah he just they came out to play and i don't know what we talk about in a group chat all the time every time we want to bury the the pelicans they rip off seven straight wins and then we're like oh maybe this is a serious team and then they get smoked by 40 in one of their biggest games of the season yeah i think the rule we've settled on on group chat is simply never trust the pelicans under whatever you think of them don't trust it

you can't be like stake your claim too hard on either side of the aisle but what's i think where new or Orleans finds itself is like everything they do is hard. And when they're winning, it's because they're defending hard and they're flying around and they're getting second chances from offensive rebounds.

Ingram is hitting tough contested shots. But if any of those things gets off its axis a little bit, who is the guy on the Pelicans who makes things easy? Because LeBron makes things easy. He's going to get you wide open shots. He's going to get himself layups. He's going to get AD dunks. Yeah. Who is the guy on the Pelicans who makes things easy? Because LeBron makes things easy. He's going to get you wide open shots. He's going to get himself layups. He's going to get AD dunks.

Who is the guy on the Pelicans who makes things easy? Well, I'll tell you one thing that was apparent with the Lakers tonight, because Rui, they've been working him back. He had a facial fracture, but I never, ever for a second gave up on the Lakers this season as in my inner circle of

teams that could win the title. The size is just really hard. Like the size and the agility. And, you know, Valen Shun is who I think has been really good for the Pelicans this year. But Davis is just a bad matchup for him. He's just, he's long and he's fast

and it's just not great. But when they were, when they're, when they just always have two guys with size and sometimes three, on top of LeBron, just like a battering ram, just pushing, pushing, pushing. I thought it was really interesting how hard he was pushing the pace. I don't know if a piece of it was we got to play the Pacers in two days.

I got to get my pace on. Get the wind up. The Russell thing is still a little weird. It doesn't feel like a great fit. We haven't seen Gabe Vinson. Vanderbilt's not playing the same kind of minutes that he played last year, really. So there's still work in progress and feel like there are three for one, like Jackson Hayes now gets the Christian Wood minutes, but God only knows who that's going to be. But for the most

part, they're still in the inner circle for me. They're for you too, Waz, right? Yeah, absolutely. I think Denver's a nightmarish, hellish matchup for them. But outside of Denver, there's no team in the West. Who do you have third? I'm not even saying rank them, but if I give you a top three.

I got Phoenix by default, but it's not some confident third for me. And then Golden State's looked the way they've looked, right? Sacramento is obviously... Golden State's a cross-off for me. And then Golden State's looked the way they've looked. Right? Sacramento is obviously... Golden State's a cross-off for me. I think they have to make a trade. They're too small. I don't see it

with them. Sacramento, again, I love the team, but their center is their center. And I don't think that's going to work in legitimate playoff matchups. And so... So no Minnesota, because I'd have Minnesota in my... Oh, no, Minnesota's And so... So no Minnesota, because I'd have Minnesota in my...

Oh, no, Minnesota's in there. Sorry. I got to stop overlooking the number one seed in the West. I got to stop doing this already. I think it's Denver, Minnesota, and the Lakers. And then I think it drops off. What do you think, Rob?

I think the Thunder are in that group too, to be honest. Oh. Some of it's... I think I have trust in their young guys to deliver much in the way Indiana's young guys are delivering. They can step up in this kind of competitive moment.

But I think once you get past Denver, all those teams have big questions. The Lakers in some matchups are going to have huge offensive questions. I would say Minnesota and OKC are right there with them. And that's kind of my next layer of the inner circle. But all those are pretty flawed contenders and they're going to have to prove it over the back half of the season, definitely.

Well, OKC has the easiest path to get better because they have a million picks and contracts and different things. They just did that sneaky Bertans thing to make him a little more tradable. And I'm not ready to put them in the top three until they get one more big guy because they just feel, especially

the game we watched tonight, they're just going to feel small in a game like that. When you watch LeBron and he's got the crowd like he does and he's going to the rim hard, he's getting calls. He is. He's one of the greatest players we've ever had. If you're going to foul him as he's going to the rim,

they're going to call it. It's probably going to be the right call most of the time. I see him attacking. Also, one last Laker thing I think bears mentioning because we're going to talk about the Bucs. The fact that they've gotten something, anything out of Cam Reddish is kind of crazy. He's like the head of the snake.

He's the point of attack defender. It's kind of crazy that he's thriving in that role. Again, the shot is still a little funky. I remember when he was supposed to be some 3 and D person, you know, one of those 3 and Ds without the 3. But the way that he's defending, somebody has gotten in his ear that he's going to get paid if he defends people, and it's pretty heartening to see.

We sat next to Palenka and he was like five feet away from us and he was really into the game and every time Zion got the ball he was just like, he's going left! He's going left! But he by the second quarter he

moved into, I got this mode. He's like, I'm going to relax. I'm going to have a really good night in Vegas today. Maybe I'll go get some sushi after this 30-point win. We got to talk about the elephant in the room. Wow. It's funny you would use that euphemism. Yeah, I didn't.

I wasn't even going to. This is very rude. Very rude. Listen, this is not a fat-shaming situation. I don't like talking about other people's weight, but when you're a professional athlete and you're a max player and you're the most important pick in the history of the franchise, you never know. TV adds 10 pounds. He's just gigantic. He's way out of shape. And it doesn't totally affect him in the games because he still weirdly has this first step explosiveness. He doesn't have the second jump anymore.

Second jump's gone. But he's carrying too much weight. And I thought there was a real disrespect with the way the Lakers even defended him because they were like, we're just playing seven feet off you. You can't shoot threes. He missed, I think, five of his first six free throws. They attacked him on defense. He had a bunch of defensive lapses. And I look at, I like this Pelicans team. It's two different teams. There's the Zion team. And then there's

this other team I really want to see with Daniels and Murphy and you know Brandon Ingram and Alvarado and McCollum and just like flying around kind of like Indiana and they can't fly around with Zion in this condition but Rob Waz and I were just well Waz I'll start with you we just neither of us could believe it

it was tough it was tough first so they're doing the little handshake hand clap after the anthem thing and zion kind of walks by us and i don't want to step on bill's you know body language corner but the guy looked like he just woke up from a nap like this is a big game prime time yeah he looked out of it the crowd is juice there was legitimate juice and energy in the building by the time that game had started. Like, it was already there.

You know, it wasn't like the first game where folks were still trickling in six minutes into the first quarter. Like, the game was ready to go, and Zion looked like he was still wiping the eye crust out of his eye. And I was like, hmm, that's curious. Then Bill pointed out to me, he was like,

what happened to best shape of his career first serious offseason blah blah blah yeah that's long gone just it's not there guys i i thought we had an understanding as a nation that between thanksgiving and christmas we're not gonna do Give the guy a break. Fair. Fair. Listen, this is, it's kind of sad. I think it's a sad NBA story because at some point this,

this isn't coming back. Like this is kind of what your body becomes. Barkley's talked about this. Barkley came into the league. He was 300 pounds. His first season on the Sixers, he was able to move around. He carried a lot of weight, but I think Barkley even said on my podcast last year, it's like,

the problem with carrying this weight, you can do it, you can cheat, you can look like a version of yourself, but you're going to get hurt because he looks like Jalen Carter. He looks like he should be playing nose tackle for the New Orleans Saints. It's irresponsible. He's the franchise guy that made this huge commitment to him. It's like, get in shape. Look around the league. Look at all these dudes. We just watched Howell Burton. That guy is the most locked in possible. It's another young star who takes his shit seriously. It doesn't seem like Zion does. Rob, I think they missed,

I think they had a chance to trade him last summer. Now, I've also heard that there weren't a lot of people knocking on the door. It's like, did they try? Did they not? I remember I said something and it got aggregated. It's like Simmons says they're going to trade him by the end of the week.

It wasn't what I said. It was one person who said, who told me, hey, don't be surprised if they trade Zion this week. That was it. But I think they might've missed their window now. I don't know what you would get for him because it's a super expensive guy. Waz, we're going to do the worst contracts draft at some point. Super expensive guy is not in shape. I've seen this play. I'm old. I've seen a lot of NBA seasons. This never ends well. So Rob, am I panicking or is this fair? You're not panicking because once you make the decision to not trade him, and I'm sympathetic to that decision for

the record. He's an impossible player to think about trading because he could burn you so, so badly if he gets his career on track. But this is what the darker timeline looks like. And Bill, you said it's not affecting him yet on the court, but it is affecting him. Well, it's affecting his role for one. Like the Pelicans do not prioritize him in their offense because they can't trust him to one, be healthy. And two, to have his wind at the end of games,

if you're going to him over and over and over. Oh my God, he was sucking it up. That was one of the things we noticed. He's heaving. And two possessions later, he's sucking wind and they're taking him backing. Two possessions later, he's sucking wind and they're taking him back out. Yeah.

Yeah, he was playing like four or five minutes spurts. It's fucking December. It's just so strange to see him to catch the ball on the move, going toward the basket, not even look at the rim.

Just, I'm going to dish off to the corner. I'm going to dish off to another guy. He clearly has it in his head that he is playing a more facilitator role for this team. And I can understand how they got to that point and why that would be a healthy thing for their offense.

But just seeing a player who's as explosive as him be so locked into what he thinks he can't or shouldn't be doing, it's a failure on a lot of different fronts. It's a failure of the management of his career to this point in the holistic sense.

And then he'll have this stretch, like what was that play was when he all of a sudden exploded right to left across the lane at like warp speed and laid in traffic with the head to the layup. And we were all like, holy shit. How did that happen? He has those bursts. He definitely does. And even there was a play where he got

fouled, where that was like a quick twitch play, where it was like, oh, look at Zion being explosive. And I'm about to do the thing that I used to hate when my mom did it to me. She'd be like, look at such and such a son. He's an engineer. Look at such and such a son. I heard he's in med school. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And again, look at Halliburton. Like, that guy, he is lighting a fire under his guys' asses. He gets those guys excited to play. He's a leader. To me, that's the biggest disappointment about Zion is that he doesn't

carry himself like the franchise guy. He doesn't carry himself like the leader. He doesn't carry himself like the players. He did it at Duke. For a couple weeks? But he really gave a shit when he was at Duke. And I thought, we were saying, Rosillo was sitting with us and was saying like,

you know, when Zion had that stretch, what, two years ago, when it was point forward Zion, and he ripped off that two and a half, three month run, and it was like Rosillo like favorite random league pass event. He just like lost his mind. And I was saying like, we could almost do a narrative podcast about the one year Zion

was in shape. Cause it was fucking magical. He was one of the best four offensive players in the league for three months of the season. And I don't know to watch it like this. I was really surprised. And I don't know what they do because we this, I was really surprised and I don't know what they do because we got the trade deadline in two months,

but they have a good team. You know, they have good young players and it feels like there's an identity in there, but then there's also this Zion piece and I don't know how they reconcile it. But that was, I think, a big surprise to all of us.

That's kind of the damning thing about this game, though, is the Pelicans do have a good team. They have a good supporting cast. They have seemingly a lot of the things you should have to at least compete in a game like this. And they couldn't even hang on the same floor with LeBron and these guys.

We were saying they might be better off telling Zion to go away for a couple weeks and lose weight and get in shape and then try to find an identity. Because they could be a really good defensive team if they wanted to be, especially when Nance comes back. It's not going to happen with Zion. I hope he figures it out, man, because we've seen with him and with Ja. So young.

These are two of the most talented dudes we've had in the last 15 years. And both of them are just getting in their own way. And it's like, just look around, get competitive with the other people that you're competing against in your age range. You should watch that Tyrese Halliburton game and be like, fuck, that should be me. So it was a little somber, but at the same time watching, I guess to put a bow on it, then there's LeBron, who's maximized every drop from this already unbelievable body he had. He's had the same blessings that Zion had in a lot of ways physically and maximized. All he does is put money and time and energy into his body so he can do what he did tonight.

I don't know how Zion walks away from that and goes, am I doing something wrong? Because when you pay somebody $50 million a year, $40 million a year, whatever it is, you reward him with the extension. He thinks he's okay. He's fine. He got paid. He got the contract. So, all right, we're going to take a break,

and I can't wait to talk about Halliburton. Score early this NFL season with FanDuel America's number one sportsbook. Right now, new customers get $150 bonus bets when your first $5 Moneyline bet wins. We'll be doing million-dollar picks for week 14 a little bit later in this podcast. We've been red hot, so you better listen to that one. You've been thinking about joining FanDuel. No better time to get in the action right now.

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is the light beer with all the great beer tastes we like. 90 calories per 355 mil can. So why not grab some Miller Lites today? Your game time tastes like Miller Lite. Must be legal drinking age. All right, the first game of the day was Indiana versus Milwaukee. And holy shit, do we have some in-person thoughts on this one. The things we saw and heard. My big takeaway though was,

because we talked about it all between the games, but just where is Halliburton now? We did the ringer NBA list. I think I picked him 11th. It's really hard for me to put him behind Devin Booker at this point. I know Devin Booker's been to a finals. I know Devin Booker's awesome. a finals. I know Devin Booker's awesome. What I watched from Halliburton today against a team that has Giannis and Lopez that threw different defensive looks at him, that put him in zones,

the way he's able to keep the pace, the way he's able to close these games he did against Boston, he did against Milwaukee, I don't even know what guard historically to compare him to. While I was watching in person I think what was the most shocking to me was just how fucking fast he is it's not just like pushing the pace but like

man he can go 0-60 in the half court and over and over again we were joking about it with Malik Beasley in the first quarter he just 8 times in a row just went by him but then he had another gear for the fourth quarter. I know, I know, Rob. This is your guy. He hates Malik

Beasley. Do you guys think Tyrese even knew that Malik Beasley was in the building? Maybe he just went the whole night without seeing him. I don't know. It was like they picked a fan from the stands. They're like, you're going to guard Tyrese Halliburton for the first quarter. Was, did he seem faster to you in person than you thought? It's not just obviously there's the speed with the ball, did he seem faster to you in person than you thought?

It's not just, obviously there's the speed with the ball, but for me, what's fastest is his decision-making. How quickly he decides to get off of it when it's time to get off of it, the hit-aheads. You know, when he's on the pick-and-roll, like the fastness with which he's going to whip a pocket pass. His decision-making is very quick, too. It's not just that he's going to whip a pocket pass. His decision making is very quick, too. It's not just that he's on the ball, just moving at a whirlwind pace. And so, man, that was just really cool to see tonight.

One, like the fact that Beasley couldn't do anything with him. And he treated Beasley as if he was a traffic cone. And then they zoned him up and he started picking apart the zone as well. There was a moment where I think the Bucs started smartly playing Halliburton to shoot because his inclination is to get his guys involved and not be, you know, ball hawking and score. It's the old Steve Nash Jedi mind trick of, hey, go ahead, take some shots. And then he said, hold on, these people think I can't score? And he proceeded to just keep getting buckets. So it was just an incredible,

incredible game to watch. Now, as far as the pecking order, obviously, I think he's a clearly all-star starter level kind of guy. He's first team on the NBA right now, right? I don't see how the guard list starts without him first. Well, thankfully, we don't have to do by position anymore. So it's just going to be five guys first team on the NBA.

I'm doing it by position. I'm not listening to their instructions. Of course. They can fuck off on that. They threw away 75 years of history. They're like, oh no. Everybody gets a position now. It's like, go to hell. If you're picking two guards, right now you've got Steph, you've got Luka, you've got

Shea, you've got Tyrese Halliburton. I forgot. We have to count Luka as a guard even though he's 6'8", 270. He plays point guard. That's fine. So it's Luka and Halliburton then. I mean, that's brutal. You know?

Like Shea with the season he's having is not first team All-NBA. Yeah. I mean, it's tough. That's what it might be. But I think Halliburton's been at their level, man. You got to talk about leadership, raising, elevating the guys on your team. No doubt.

He's been the number one guy. Rob, the thing that... What Waz talked about, the decision making, it reminds me of what they talk about with... And you're in the Bay, so you'll appreciate this, with the Brock Purdy conversation about how he processes things just fast. Okay, you need to catch me up on the Brock Purdy conversation because I used my one...

I know two things about football. I said one... Rob, just nod. But Brock Purdy seems like average physical skills for a quarterback, but right away, he just kind of knows where the ball should go and fast. And what was fascinating with Halliburton today is the Bucs couldn't keep up with the speed of how fast he made decisions. He's going over half court and he's already like, I'm going to go by Beasley on the right and then I'm going to cut across and then I'm going to swing him in the corner. And he's already figured it out before he's done it. And the Bucs were just constantly going backwards. They have their own issues anyway, but they have literally nobody on the roster who can guard somebody like that. But he eviscerated them

and he did the fucking Dame Time thing, which I'm sure blew up on social. Incredible moment. Not only did he look at the watch, he milked it. He was like, time, time, time.

He's just going nuts. He was having a great time. Yeah, this was like some alpha shit he was doing. So anyway, we had a look on TV. Much the same. And I think not only is it the speed of decision-making

that you guys are talking about, but how quickly he learns within the games. It's not just on an individual possession, but I think the biggest point of contrast on this front is in the first half, when he got Lopez or Giannis switched on him, he was pulling up for like 30 footers. And those are shots he can hit,

and some days he will hit them. They weren't quite going in this one. But when he got Lopez again down the stretch in crunch time, he sold that 30 footer and then blew by him for a layup. And that's the kind of thing you can see him doing all game long.

Man versus zone, different kinds of coverages, as you were saying, was like no matter what you throw at him, he's going to be better at tackling it in the fourth quarter than he is in the first. And that is fucking terrifying. Do they keep the stat of just, I just

drove by the guy who was trying to guard me? That sounds like that should be a second spectrum, Scott. I think we'll call it that too. Blow-bys. They have that stat in soccer. When you beat a guy off the dribble, that's a stat that they keep. The NBA probably should keep that, too. But, yeah, the Beasley thing was funny, Rob, because I'm watching him in pregame warm-ups,

and he's doing, like, these crazy foot fires. And in my head, I'm like, I wonder if, like, this is something he does every game. I've never watched this guy warm up. Well, I've never paid attention to it. And then I'm just like, oh, like, he's like, I'm about to guard Halliburton all day, and I need to, like, get my foot speed.

And he was trying to do, like, shit-starting Malik Beasley stuff. Like, you know, there's a timeout, and he's got to, like, try to block the shot if somebody's going to take the action. None of it was working. The soccer thing's a good analogy because the way he goes by people reminds me of those guys in soccer

that can just beat anybody and go by them and do scissor kicks and just shit like that. We're like, uh-oh, that guy in open space. He's going by. You know, like almost messy-like. But I can't say enough about it. That was one of the best games

I've seen a guard play. No turnovers. Yeah. He never turns it over. In either of these best games I've seen a guard play. No turnovers. He never turns it over. In either of these tournament games, between the two games, 53 points, 28 assists, 17 rebounds, zero turnovers.

I had a parlay. I'm in Vegas. I did Indiana to win with the Pelicans. For some reason, I wrote myself in. I don't know what I was thinking. Never trust the Pelicans. And Le reason, I wrote myself in. I don't know what I was thinking not realizing that. Well, and LeBron in Vegas,

like, come on. Like, he's going to own the team here in five years. But yeah, the Indiana, the pace that they play, watching Milwaukee, a team that can't guard really any pace,

they had to play the zone in the second quarter. That was like the first white flag they waved. But it's a really limited team from a resource standpoint. They just have a lot of sameness. They had to play campaign

so they could go two guards to kind of match up with the Pacers. And that didn't work because he's campaign. But the fact that they don't have somebody to guard the Halliburton types,

which I've been flagging since the summer, is a problem. Because guess what? There's a lot of guys who play the guard position who go by people. And they can't stop those guys. Yeah, they don't have. And again, the reason why I brought up Cam Reddish with the Lakers is because he's made himself into this, all right, I'll take the primary ball handling player

and that'll be my defensive matchup for the day. Like that's what I do. You know, I'm long and I'm rangy and I move my feet reasonably quick enough. I got AD behind me. So like that combination, it's like, no, you're not going to stop haliburton but you're gonna make it a little bit difficult on him you're gonna actually make him have to think about his

first and second reads at least a little bit whereas with the box it's just it's just a layup line and and i'm and i would love for bill to get up here and talk about you know body language police or body language doctor with the box did you want to hear. Rob, did you want to hear from the body language doctor? Oh, the box. The body language is... By the way, confirm, because after the game, Chris Haynes wrote a piece of Bleacher Report

about how Bobby Portis challenged Adrian Griffin in a polite way, but challenged him in the locker room because Griffin was talking about we got to do the rebounding weather. And Portis was like, we got to execute better. It was enough to have a

splashy Bleacher Report story, but the body language doctor did not like what he saw from the Bucs today. Now, maybe caught him on the wrong night. It's possible, but the Giannis thing is just weird. It's just weird.

every time there's a timeout, he sits on the scorer's table for like, what, 40 seconds, Was? Dude, he would... As the timeout started, he would stay at the scorer's table and sit down. So he doesn't sit with his teammates? Doesn't sit with the teammates.

He's still in the game his brother thanasis might come over and angle over and be like yo there's this thing and this that and then with the like five seconds left to break the huddle yannis ambles on over one two reasons why that's weird rob one all the reporting suggests that this adrian griffin thing was a yannis pac. That's a one. So this was your guy, and it seems like you're out on him. And two, the last time we saw a guy doing this was KD his last year with the Golden State Warriors. Oh, that's a great point.

Yeah, he would come back in for like the last time I saw this. He'd come in for the last 20 seconds of the huddle and then walk back. But he was non-connected with teammates. He would hang out by the rim though. Yeah.

He would just go near the rim, sort of hang on the net, do the thing. That's a great analogy. And, but you know, luckily for the Bucs. But Giannis was never like this. He never did stuff like this.

He was always like in the middle of stuff. And there was another moment. Giannis was, they were shooting free throws in Indiana. And Giannis was at the low block about to, you know, we're waiting for the first free throw and Griffin took him out and the guy comes in.

I think they called him Poe. Cause I've heard Brooke call him Yanni, but then some other teammates call him Poe. I like, I personally enjoy Yanni. I thought just as a nickname, I think we should get it going. But he's like, Poe, Poe. And he's like, me? I'm coming out. And he was pissed.

And he walked out and Griffin was at half court. And every time a player walks by the coach, they do the slap five or whatever. It was just fucking walk by him. Just right by him. Just silence. And then he came back in like, what, two minutes later? But we were like, whoa. Because we were sitting right there watching it.

We were like, oh, that's. there watching it we were like oh that's that's what I did when I didn't get the call for the sea of love rewatchable I just coached it right on by you yeah but so we had that we had you know Dame's not exactly Mr. Charismatic on any team that's just he's he does

his own thing I mean that's I didn't feel like he was any different, but... But in fairness to Dame, it's tough to come in there. No, he's just Dame. All these guys have already been there.

He's the same guy, yeah. And to be like, all right, guys, we're taking orders from Dame now. Yeah. That would be kind of tough.

It's a quiet team except for Portis. And Lopez to some degree, but there's like... And then Middleton was the other thing that I really wanted to see in person before I made my official opinion on it. But he just looks like he's, you know, on the other side of the mountain a little bit.

He's not the guy from the 2021 playoffs anymore. He's older and I don't feel like he moves side to side the same way. I thought it was tougher for him to beat guys off the dribble. He's just a different version of Middleton. I think offensively, he's been pretty solid. Defensively, I'm concerned. But he

pretty solid wasn't going to win the 2021 finals. That guy was huge for them. He's just not the same guy. Defensively, you're right though. Yeah, and that's where you hope that by playoff time, Chris is looking a little bit more spry, a little bit more agile. He has put up points, and when he's been on the floor, by and large, the Bucs

have been very, very good this season. I think the concern, and if I were Giannis, if I'm putting myself in his head as assistant to the body language doctor, I'm not sure what my jurisdiction is here exactly. You're the physician's assistant. Yeah.

Rob Mahoney is going to come in now and see you and take your blood. We got to pay the bills somehow. If I'm putting myself in Giannis' head, I'm not worried about Chris or Dame so much. Or even Brooke. I'm looking at everybody else. And I'm looking at, in this game,

we can look at these tournament games as a statement for someone like Tyrese Halliburton. Tyrese Halliburton has announced his presence to a wider swath of audience, stepped up in every situation you can step up as a star in these games. But it's also about which role players are ready to compete like this.

And on Indiana's side, you've got TJ McConnell making big plays. You've got Andrew Nembhard coming in and making big plays against the Jones. Swinging quarters. Isaiah Jackson having big stretches in this game. And if you're Giannis, you're looking at Marjan Beauchamp

and AJ Green and Andre Jackson, who can barely get in the game, against a Pacers team that went 10 deep and beat you. And I think that is where the wind gets out of your sails a little bit. Yeah, that's a good point. Well, that's what happens when you trade assets over and over again for supporting characters.

At some point, you run out of assets and you got Bo Champ and they gave Andre Jackson a look. Who is that? Our guy AJ Green came in? I'm a fan of AJ Green. We were like, what's going on here? Yeah, he did some sniffing. Get some more looks in.

Obviously, Pat Connaughton didn't play today. If you're missing Pat Connaughton that much, that's kind of part of the problem. But here's what I'll say. My man, Eric Neame, my former colleague at The Athletic, put out a piece today, and it was talking about how come the Dame and Giannis pick-and-roll partnership

has not come out like gangbusters yet yeah and essentially the piece makes the point that one yannis isn't used to doing this yet which i think will be he'll be better at and two the spacing has been weird. And somebody's supposed to be coaching that up, y'all. And somebody fired Terry Stotts, one of the most respected offensive minds in the whole league, two days before the season. And so, Bobby Portis is calling you out in the locker room. Look, these contracts is guaranteed now. Like, you know, I don't want to call for people's jobs, but come on now.

The writing's on the wall, folks. It's a little rocky. Well, there's that other stretch. Remember when Giannis was super mad because he didn't get the ball for like four minutes? And I mean, every time they gave Giannis the ball, he just went to the rim, neither scored or dunked or missed the layup, but was just getting great shots over and over again. I think you're right, Rob, about the

yin and yang of the Dame and Giannis and just him trying to learn to play with somebody who has a usage rate like that. And in the old days, it was always like, all right, Giannis, come bail us out, come bail us out. And now they also have to get this Dame thing going. Dame had a weird game because he was really bad and then all of a sudden got super hot for seven minutes and then kind of reverted back and they're going after him on defense. But I didn't like what I saw. I'm not going to

put my stamp down and say the Bucs are screwed. This is it. We talked about a two-month checkpoint. It's not awesome. And they're missing some dudes and the vibe didn't seem great. The vibe might not have seemed great, but this was a sick game.

It was awesome. Giannis was unbelievable. And here's the thing, if we're going to say the Pacers played great and the Bucs were with them every step of the way, basically, I think the Bucs, you know, this was not a good Bucs game. But every step of the way, basically. I think the Bucs, you know, this was not a good Bucs game. But I thought Giannis played well. I thought Dame, again, as you said, Bill, had a very weird night overall.

Outscored by Miles Turner, Damian Lillard was, which that's not a winning recipe for the Bucs by any stretch. But yeah, I'm not abandoning ship on Milwaukee. Yeah, there's way too much here to work with. No, no, no, I'm not abandoning ship. All of these criticisms are based on a team that we think can win the championship. Right?

Yes. Like, they're not OKC where if they make the second round this year, we're going to throw them a parade and pat them on the ass. Like, the expectation is championship or bust this year.

And so that's what the criticisms are based on. Obviously, it's not time to abandon ship and, you know, burn up all of your Bucs futures. Like, we still got time to abandon ship and, you know, burn up all of your your books. Like we still got time here, guys.

60 games. Listen, I don't like my team either. It's not like I'm like, watch out for my team. I think my team has major issues. That's before you get to. I have no idea how many games to get from Persingas. I told Was today, like, if I had to bet on a team, I would bet on Miami. I think they're the safest bet in the conference.

I really do. I think they have two of the top 20 guys in the league. They know who they are. If they played Indiana today, they're not letting that Halliburton thing happen. Not in that stage. I just think that's the alpha in the East right now. They made the finals last year. I don't think they're worse.

I think they're actually more interesting than they were last year in a lot of ways with what Hawkeyes has done. They've retrieved Aiden Robinson. And they have a trade to make. They're going to do something. That would be my pick. You think that's an overreaction, Rob?

Maybe slightly. You sound like a person who's been hurt before, and I can understand. Coming back, the Heat are very, very good. I think they're going to be a handful for anybody. I don't know that I'm quite ready to elevate them to that status yet. I think they have some stuff to prove over the course of this regular season too. But apparently the Pacers are just going to beat every good team.

They're going to beat the Celtics on their way to this in-season tournament championship. They're going to beat the Bucs. And now they're going to get a chance to go toe-to-toe. They got LeBron waiting for them. You know what's funny? That's quite a challenge. I didn't think they played... I thought Halliburton was awesome. And Turner had a good game. But I actually didn't think the supporting cast for the Pacers... I thought they were pretty up and down.

Buddy wasn't good. Mathurin was bad. That awful Ben Mathurin game. And by the way, that was one of the great things about not having music was we could hear the multiple times when Carlisle was yelling at Ben the same way I yell at my son. Where I yell at my son,

I'm like, Ben! Ben! You left all the lights on in your room. Come on, dude. It was like that kind of yelling. Like he's just kind of had it with Matherin. Listen,

one of the things I think has to be talked about with the Pacers, they're fifth in the East and we all like their team and we think they have a top 10 guy. They have shit to trade if they wanted to get Frisky. Right? They got the buddy expiring. They have

Matherin. They have their own picks. Could they get Frisky? And if they got Frisky, who is it? Well, they have Jairus Walker, who isn't even in the rotation right now, but a valuable young player. So they've got a lot of options. The question is kind of where you see their needs exactly.

Obviously, size on the wings or at the four would be really, really nice for this team. I think it's in the Matherin spot. Getting a reliable, awesome wingman guard who could score next to Hal Burton, I think would be my number one thing. It's Heald and Matherin. Could we get somebody that just is a reliable every night guy?

What do you think it is, Wes? I'd like to see some size at three or four because at a certain point, every night guy. What do you think it is, Wes? I'd like to see some size at the three or four because at a certain point, you're guarding Giannis Antetokounmpo with Obi Toppin and Aaron Neesmith. Now, look. Shout out to Aaron Neesmith, though. The newest member of the Neesmith

hive, but that's not going to get it done. Oh, welcome to Neesmith Island, Wes. I didn't realize. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't realize you had your suitcases. It was the revenge game. It was the revenge game. It was the revenge game against the Celtics the other night. I'm like, whoa, wait a second.

This guy is a player now? So as much as I like those guys, I love OB, but these are not real power forwards, guys. The defense, I thought Pena did a really good job writing about Indiana's weird defensive strategy. And the way he laid it out. I was like, Michael Pina, I'm the ringer if you want to read the piece. Where he was just like, and I don't know why more teams don't do this.

I always called it the Jedi mind trick. Where it's like, you know, like with Indiana in the Boston game. It's like, hey, Jalen Brown, look at this. You could just drive right to the basket. You should do that. We're putting a guard on you. You should just drive to the basket, Jalen Brown. And then all of a sudden, the Celtics offense is completely out of whack

because Jalen Brown's like, oh, my God, I'm going to get mine. And they do this. They were doing it with Milwaukee where they were like, hey, Giannis. Yeah. He's so much shorter. You should try to barrel through him. But it seems kind of intentional. They use their weakness, which is basically lack of rim protection

and lack of size, and they're kind of like, fuck it. You can have layups. We're going to run, and we're going to run, and we're going to run. And that's what makes this Lakers, this final uh, this final game so fascinating where I don't, do you think Mahoney, do you think they can play at that pace for four quarters? No. The Lakers?

I, I, I do not. You know, the Lakers tried to play fast by Lakers standards and they've been faster this season. They've gotten out on the break more in general, but yeah,

they were pushing the Pelicans pace wise. And I think it's going to require two or three years higher than that to keep up with the pacers. We saw Indiana in this game off of makes. Halliburton's got the ball across half-court within a second and a half. Isaiah Jackson streaking down the middle getting a dunk.

Those are the kinds of plays where half the Lakers aren't even across half-court yet. Obviously, you need to scout Indiana differently than you do most teams. Be very careful about their tendencies. Very careful about how quickly they want to get out because you're programmed to take in the game at a much different speed.

I think the Lakers are going to have trouble with that, but where the Lakers are so good is they're a control team in their own right. They're very good at slowing you down. They're very good at taking you out of your stuff. If LeBron is operating at this level, just in terms of how controlling the game in this kind of cerebral way, which he can against any

defense, much less Indiana's, that's the kind of battle of styles and wills that would make for a fascinating final. So I think this is, of the four teams, the best matchup we could possibly get. Waz, can I interest you in the following same-game parlay on FanDuel? Let's hear it.

Tyrese Halliburton, 25 plus points, three made threes, 14 plus assists, and six rebounds. Wow. And you got to hit all four of those? This is not even one of those two out of four. You know what? I'm also going to throw an Indiana plus three and a half. That is now 21 to one.

21 to one. The Pacers covering and Tyrese Halbert just has an awesome game. That's what they should call that on the site. Tyrese Halbert, an awesome game. 21 plus 2100. Rob, who do you think wins? I think Indiana wins. I do too.

I think LeBron's going to go hard. I think the Lakers are going to play well. I just think this Indiana team is primed for exactly this kind of competition. What better way to bring in the tournament than with a team like the Indiana Pacers? I'm not going to disrespect LeBron James in the inaugural NBA in-season tournament. This is just going to

be another notch on his belt. Trophy for the mantle. He's going to get the MVP of the tournament. He's going to win the first NBA Cup. Let's go Lakers, Bill. I think it's going to be mostly Laker fans, right?

Gotta be. How do we feel? There were Pacer fans there But how do we feel... We sat right next to some Pacer fans. There were Pacer fans there, so... Yeah, how do we feel about the doubleheader at the neutral site? You know, I felt like this was a day where, especially with the 2 p.m. tip

for the early game Pacific time, probably could have benefited from being in a local arena and at a non-2 p.m. time. Like, there's some scheduling and location-based issues that maybe the league needs to work out with the tournament. That was a big discussion

between the two games, what the right. So one of the reasons they had so much space, they wanted two gates, but they also wanted, the NBA players need time to warm up.

They have, it's basically like an hour 45 minutes or an hour and a half for the game. Hour and a half, I think it is. So they had to have

enough time for that to happen. I think they could go daytime, nighttime and do like a one o'clock and then like maybe a seven o'clock and do it that way. But they wanted the primetime thing. They'll figure it out. So what they should really do

is it should be Friday and do it like the day night thing. But then the problem is that puts you, the Sunday game is against football. They don't want to go against football. You can see how they reverse engineered their way into this. Football having seven nights a week is tough for the season.

It's a little bit. Rob doesn't know. He doesn't watch any of it. The other way to do it is you could do the Wednesday Thursday semifinal. So Indiana would have been last night, Lakers tonight.

I kind of liked having the two games back-to-back. It reminded me of the Olympics. I thought it was cool. It's like the Final Four. I loved it. I like them back-to-back. I just want to, like, I would like people to watch them. I want that Tyrese Halliburton game in front of the biggest audience possible because it popped even under those

circumstances. That's what's a little harder to figure out. I had the parlay wrong. It's plus 836. 25 plus points, 3 plus made threes, 14 plus assists, 6 plus rebounds, and

Pacers plus 3.5. 14 assists is a lot. Is that too many? Not for Tyrese Halliburton. Not for Tyrese Halliburton. Plus 836, guys. Can you take under on turnovers somewhere? I would take that. Yeah, Fando should have, Tyrese will have zero turnovers

and the craziest fucking game you've ever seen. Plus 730. All right, so in season, we're still two giant, three giant, six giant thumbs up. Yeah. Right?

Shout out to Adam Silver, a man who loves a strong U.S. military. Shout out to Adam Silver, a man who loves a strong U.S. military presence and the in-season tournament. I think he brought this one home. Rest in peace, Henry Kissinger, the king.

Oh, last thing we need to talk about, Scott Foster's black eye. Bro. I didn't even realize this. Scott Foster had a big guy. He had a shiner. Okay. Scott Foster had a black eye. He had a shiner. Okay.

Scott Foster had a black guy. We need the bottle episode that's just Scott Foster's last 24 hours in Vegas so we can get to the bottom of what happened with that. The good thing for Scott Foster is we didn't make jokes about it

as we watched the game. Oh, no. We made a ton of jokes, actually. We were like, did he run into Chris Paul last night? Vegas. What happened? It's in Vegas.

Did he not? He's friends with, Joe, they just write themselves. Yeah, he had an actual shiner. Listen, who knows how he got it, but it led to a lot of comedy. And I went on Twitter and searched whether people were talking about it,

and there weren't a lot of people talking about it. So maybe they're being careful about not showing it. HD, you couldn't see it. Who knows? Well, he had a shiner. We didn't get a lot of coverage. You know, this is where I really missed the in-person experience,

but you guys missed out on Willie Green with a very hot mic next to him. We could hear everything. But let me tell you, instead of being very spicy, it was just like the most mundane micromanaging you can possibly imagine. Just yelling at Herb Jones to literally dribble. That was what like the most mundane micromanaging you can possibly imagine. Just yelling at Herb Jones

to literally dribble. That was what we were getting on the mic. That's, you know, I always feel like they're holding back on the mics and yet we were listening

to Carlisle and he's basically just saying, box out! Sometimes it really is that. He's just talking like when we're things. Was, we did hear

the incredible Bobby Portis, Tyrese Halbert in exchange though. Yeah, and he told them to just win. We coming, just win. He's like, we did hear the incredible Bobby Portis, Tyrese Halbert in exchange, though. Yeah, and he told them to just win. We coming, just win. He's like, we coming. And then what did Portis say?

We hooping. And then Halbert's like, we coming. I was like, I always thought these were going to be more exciting. They're just we coming and we hooping. Anyway, Rob, thanks for staying up with us. Waz, don't get in trouble tonight. Be careful. It's a city that never sleeps. Maybe I'll see

you at the tables. Thanks for staying on, guys. Appreciate it. Thanks, Bill. This next segment is brought to you by Google Pixel, the only phone engineered by Google and the official fan phone of the NBA and the WNBA. With all-star features, Pixel 8 Pro has all the fun tools fans can actually rally around,

like Audio Magic Eraser. It lets you cut out the background noise so you can capture the sound of every swish, every dish, every Giannis slam of the in-season tournament, loud and clear. It is a Google Pixel is built. I'd say a little different, a little like Giannis.

Giannis, one thing to watch him on TV, when it's in person, it's unbelievable. I'm still recovering from when he almost beat the Celtics in 2022 and was just a force of nature. And you can see it in Vegas this week. There's nobody like him. When he's going to the basket, nobody wants to get in his way. He seems like his arms and his legs and just everything he's doing are just longer than everyone else in the court. And then he feels like he can dunk from

the foul line. It feels like he can go from two steps to the midcourt. There's nobody like Giannis. Literally nobody. You have to see him in person. For fans who want an experience that's truly built different, you got to get the new Pixel 8 or Pixel 8 Pro. Learn more about the official fan phone of the NBA at googlestore.com forward slash Pixel NBA. Audio magic eraser requires Google Photos app.

May not work on all audio elements. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too. You won't win the Super Bowl, but your fundraising will support mental health, suicide prevention, and prostate and testicular cancer research. And if you don't want to grow a mustache, you could still walk or run 60 kilometers, host an event,

or set your own goal and mow your own way. Do great things this November. Sign up now. Just search Movember. All right, taping this part of the podcast, late Thursday morning Pacific time. Our guy Peter Schrager's here.

Haven't seen him in a while. Happy holidays to you, Schrags. Hope everything is well. I love coming on. Happy holidays to you. Happy Hanukkah to those of us who follow and observe. I don't know where to start because so much is going on in the football thing, but I'll start here. Looking at million dollar picks, we've been doing really well. And it feels like there's a hierarchy that's developing. And looking at stuff like, you know, Fando has these first half game bets. And you just look and you think like San Francisco,

they're going to come ahead in Seattle in the first half, and then they're going to win the game. And I just actually feel comfortable in them. Dallas's offense, I feel really comfortable with them. Could they just come out, take the lead against Philly and keep it? Miami's offense against Tennessee, I just trust them. They're healthy. They're throwing 30 points a game. Tyreek looks like he wants the record. Are we starting to feel comfortable with who has emerged here,

or are you not comfortable yet? I'm not comfortable. The quarterback position is too fickle. And just when you want to jump on a team's train, they lose their quarterback and you have to readjust. It's in a crazy war of attrition. And some of these backup quarterbacks, Jake Browning, in a spot duty, we've seen a few of the young guys come in and get some wins. And then there's other teams that just fall apart at the seams.

And to me, it's look at the teams that are winning right now and the teams that are at the top of the heap. It's the guys with the healthy quarterbacks. And to me, it's going to be the last team standing with those healthy quarterbacks. I mean, the ones we see in the playoffs down the stretch.

Well, that's Brock Purdy. It's Prescott. Prescott hurts. It's Tua. Who's been not only miraculously healthy, but doesn't really get hit in these games

they have figured out how to just master this formula where he just doesn't take hits at all Hurts so it's interesting you mentioned him

because to me he doesn't look 100% healthy and it seems like he's just been gutting through stuff they said he got hurt in week 6

they kind of dropped that in the Thanksgiving game. And in general, that team feels like it's losing steam. And they have this Dallas game that, you know, is the game of the year for Dallas, right? This is home game. They're playing well. Dak's got the MVP in his sights now.

But you need a win like this to really be in the MVP conversation. You can move the ball on Philly. I don't think anybody likes their defense at this point. And this just feels set up for, there's so many advanced stats set up for like, oh my God, they're just going to be able to move the ball game. The counter would be, well, what if Hertz and AJ Brown and Smith, and they just have one of those old school awesome Eagles games. I guess my question is, I just don't know if it's in them anymore because of the health of Hurts. It seems like it just takes them an hour, an hour and a half to get going, even in games they're winning and they're playing well. And I

don't understand how that's going to get better from what we've seen with this gauntlet they just went through. These three games in a row they had where those games counted as like five games almost. Now they got another one. That defense played 92 plays against the Buffalo Bills and then had to play the 49ers the following week and the Niners had 10 days rest. And the Niners come in and just absolutely wallop them. Look, the Philly thing is,

that's how they're going to win games. They're going to be in these tight games and their resiliency and their toughness and all the intangibles that people can't do on PFF or you can't do with analytics is what's going to win at the end. And Hurts has been able to find a way and get to the end zone. And once they get the ball in his hands with two minutes left, he somehow makes it happen. And you say, well, he looks hurt and he looks like the first half he stunk and his quarterback

rating was a seven to start the game. And how does he end it like this? That's the stuff that champions are built out of. And that's the grit that they have. You go to Dallas. Yeah. Dallas is better numbers. And yeah, Dallas is probably the likely favorite in this game and Dallas is going to have it rolling and the whole thing in the moments that matter until Dak and McCarthy can get that win, until they can put it together and figure it out. It's hard for me to just say, yeah, you know, because Hertz looks like he's limping and because Lane Johnson doesn't look a hundred percent, I'm taking, I'm taking Dallas now.

And Dak's the MVP. It's unfair to them. And I said the same thing about the Miami Dolphins. Dolphins have the Titans on Monday night and they play the Jets next week. There is nothing the Dolphins can do over the next two weeks. Nothing that's going to convince us that they're legit.

There's nothing. That's inferior competition. They could put up 55 points. They could put up 100 points. People are going to say, yeah, but you lose to the good teams. Final three weeks of the season, the Dolphins face a gauntlet.

We'll know. In the case of Philly, they face that gauntlet. They went toe-to-toe with the Chiefs and Arrowhead and won. They went toe-to-toe with the Chiefs and Arrowhead and won. They went toe-to-toe with the Bills and won. They lost this one to the Niners. Go into this one.

I think you'd sign up for two and two or three and one. And then if you still win the NFC East, you're home in the playoffs. And it's like, what do we do? Why do we freak out? What do we do? I think they're going to be okay. And I saw my colleague at NFL Network, David Carr, said, maybe you put Mariota in.

I think these are the thoughts when you see Hurts limping off and you see that Hurts has been hurt. It was nuts. It was nuts. It was an insane comment. It was. And David is a big boy. He can stand on it.

To me, it's like what he probably, and I'm not trying to put words in, but it's like Hurts doesn't look 100%, but that's the season. It's 18 weeks. It is a marathon. And as long as that quarterback is under center come January, 100% or not,

I'm not running away from Philly just yet. So my counter, because last week I loved the Niners and part of it was the defensive stats in Philly were awful,

plus the gauntlet they were playing and the fact that that big overtime game the week before. They get their asses kicked. And then you go into this week, and it's like, well, the Niners are just that good.

Healthy Niners are the best team in the league. I certainly believe that, and I think you probably do too, right? Healthy Niners is... Yeah, of course. At least they're the favorite. I think we can all agree. And they haven't lost with Debo and Trent on the field, so there you go.

And I think that gave the Eagles a cushion for how bad their defense was in that game. But I guess the counter would be, what if their defense just isn't good? Like you look at some of these stats, 29th in defense red zone efficiency. They're 32nd in the other team converting third downs. They're 28th in first downs allowed.

They're 30th in passing yards allowed. They're 30th in passing yards allowed. They're 20th in forcing turnovers. They're 23rd in yards per play. And then you go to the other side, Dallas is second and third down. They're first and third downs. They're third in passing. They're first in protecting the ball.

I just look at, just looking at the numbers and what we've seen the last four weeks, this just seems like a game where Dallas is going to have the ball for like 40 minutes. The Eagles aren't even going to be in the field. And I don't see another scenario.

Jonathan Gannon was the defensive coordinator last year, and he did a couple funny press conference lines that went viral when he got the Cardinals job. The pew, pew, that whole thing with Kyler. Everyone thought, oh, he's a goof, whatever, get him out. And he was always the guy that the Philly fans were like, get rid of Gannon and we'll be okay.

He leaves, he goes to Arizona, and in comes Sean Desai, who, you know, very well pedigreed, great resume, the whole thing. It's tough to change coordinators on one side of the ball. It's nearly impossible to change coordinators on both sides of the ball. So this is a very different Eagles team. And the defense last year, they had like 70-something sacks last year. And Hassan Redick was flying off it. They're not going to get those numbers this year. So you had the pressure up front, which took a lot of the pressure off the back end. This year, those guys are sitting ducks. And they can't cover.

They can't cover wheel routes. They can't cover stuff over the middle. They can't cover tight ends. That's why Howie goes and gets a Kevin Byard. He knows. They know. And Debo calls James Bradbury trash, and he's not trash, but when a player comes out there and says that and then scores three touchdowns on you, that's demoralizing. That's not what you want.

Do I see it going differently? Yes. I could see the Eagles going down there and beating Dallas, and if Dallas wins, that's fine. Guess what? If Dallas wins, Eagles are still in first place in the division

because of the conference records, and we still have four more weeks to play. So I always say I'm in the business of hyping every game up. We're on the NFL network. Watch this game. It's huge. This is going to be a marathon the next few weeks. And a lot of the narratives that we're doing right now, it's going to change significantly based on health and also based on the way these teams are playing come into the playoffs. We agree. I don't think it's a death notice for the Eagles that they lose this game. I think they are going to lose this game, but we see this sometimes. Teams hit the peaks and valleys of the season. I think they're in

a valley right now. I think this is going to be the bottom of the valley. And then I'm still not betting against them when we get to the playoffs, because I think Hurts will be healthier. They're probably a better cold weather protect the ball team than some of these dome teams that we're going to have to be worrying about. But I'm not writing them off. Did you have no knowledge of Big Dom before Sunday? I know you and Sal were having fun with it. I feel like he's in every shot you see. You had no knowledge of the Big Dom, the legend?

It was one of those things where I was definitely aware of him, but never thought about it. And then when he was involved, I was like, oh, that guy. I always thought he was like a defensive coordinator or something. I didn't realize he was such a legend. How many minutes did you get out of it on the show? Oh, yeah. We've been eating it up.

And then there's like, at first, I think Florio and a couple others were like, he should lose his credential. I'm like, wait, I don't want big Dom to get in trouble here. I'm like, back off. Like, no, no big Dom does.

Let's maybe not talk about it. Um, truth of the matter is I known that guy since 2008. And a lot of times it's when you're a sideline reporter, you're trying to get the coach. He's the guy who will take the coach to you. And he kind of clears the path and super nice dude. But I remember,

uh, he started getting a bigger, bigger role on the team and it was yes, security, but also part of the inner circle, the owner and the GM and the whole thing. But an NFL coaching candidate was interviewing with the Eagles. And I remember, this is a few years ago, when Sirianni ultimately got hired and someone else was in that cycle. And I remember this clear as day. I texted, said, how did it go? Five-hour interview. You met with Jeffrey Lurie.

You met with Howie Rosen. How'd it go? And he goes, you know who's cool as shit? Big Dom is cool as shit. I'm like, I love it that he's meeting the coaching candidates. So Dom is in the inner circle. And he's as part of that feeling. So to see everyone be like, wait, who the heck is that?

I loved it because I'm like, oh, that is great. It's like the lesser known pieces. And he would hate that we're even talking about him. He's one of those guys, as big as he is in the Italian flag, the whole thing, like do not talk about me. Do not take a picture of me.

Like keep me out of the story. Are there only three states where you can have a big Dom? It's only tri-state area, right? Can you have it in Massachusetts? I don't even know. I don't know if we're allowed. Okay. Tommy DeVito in Jersey and a big Dom in Pennsylvania, so we'll figure it out.

Yeah. I'm not crossing out Philly yet. I just think it's a bigger game for Dallas. They really need this game. Philly would be like, oh, all right. They reclaimed their throne, but they made the Super Bowl last year and they're 10-2. Dallas is like, if they lose this with the gauntlet that Philly just played, with all the weaknesses they have on defense, with Hurts not healthy, and they're home, and they can't win this game, we can't take them seriously after that. They have to come through. And Dak

has to come through. The parallels with the Dolphins and the Cowboys are very real. These are teams with great, bloated records that have amazing performances and MVP candidates, but the second the rubber hits the road for these teams, they haven't beaten the good teams. In the playoffs, you don't play the Washington Commanders. In the playoffs, you don't play the Carolina Panthers. You end up playing the other powers. The Giants twice.

Exactly. I think it's fair to question Dallas until they get one of these wins. This is on a silver platter for them. Sunday Night Football, everyone watching, they're rolling. It's going great. Go out there and win this game. You're supposed to win at home, which by the way, it's 15 straight. Dallas dominates at home. And if they can get home field advantage throughout the playoffs, or they can get a couple home games or at least one, that goes a long way too. Well, I don't know if you saw what happened with the line, but when Sal and I had to guess the lines on Sunday, we both guessed three and it was three. And I would have guessed two and a half

before that Niners game. I think it got bumped to that point. Now it's at three and a half. Now they're dangling the hook at people. If they like, hey, I know you weren't. It's like when you get an email with a sale. It's like Nike, one day sale promo code, 25% off. They're like,

oh, I guess I could use some new running sneakers. And it's the same thing right now with the Eagles where it's like, we know you didn't like the Eagles at three.

What about three and a half? Does that do anything for you? I could see it going to four. I also go back to Sirianni. Like this is such a Sirianni game and they were underdogs last week at home. You would have said Sirianni. This is such a Sirianni game. And they were underdogs last week at home. You would have said that last week.

Last week was a Sirianni game. Didn't work. And it didn't work. And back in 2021, week three, Nick's third game as an NFL head coach, he passed out t-shirts. And they were actually athletic fit, under armor type, whatever that quality is, the workout shirts. And it was beat Dallas. And everyone in Philly was like, who is this guy? And it was just a foreshadowing of Nick's deal. He is in his head, that stuff works and the players love it. It's competitive, it's fun,

lean into it. And I can assure you, they are listening to everyone talking about Dak Prescott as the MVP, and here comes Dallas. Meanwhile, Dallas gave up 35 points to a hobbling Seahawks team last week at home, too. This is like a Sirianni game on a platter, but last week was, too. Thursday nights, I just... Those are

asterisks to me every week. That's such a weird game. Having an appendicitis issue do anything for you? Yeah, that worried me a little bit. The line doesn't move at all because of that. I don't know. To me, the head coach not being around and being in surgery, I don't know. Maybe the line should have gone up. Maybe it should have been Dallas by four and a half

watching his clock management in the last game. The other team that we have to kind of side-eye here is the Chiefs. A team that we're all notoriously scared of side-eyeing. You can look at the Eagles and you can say, all right, if Valdez-Gantley doesn't catch that pass and if Elliott doesn't make the 59-yarder,

they're 8-4 right now with a chance to go 8-5. And that kind of feels like the right record for them if you watch them every week. The Chiefs, I don't know what their record should be. They hang around in all these games. I think the thing that shocked me about this year is when they really need to move the ball 70 yards. And they can't.

And it's like, oh shit, we got, it's time, 70 yard drive time. And it's the first year in the entire Mahomes era where it doesn't seem like he knows he can do it. Last year when they won the Super Bowl, there's the same exact storyline at this point. How they can't move the ball, Mahomes isn't Mahomes, and Tyreek's gone. And they silenced us by having this amazing emergence of Juju in big games. And Valdez Scantling was awesome in the AFC Championship game against the Bengals.

And then in the Super Bowl, Tony and Sky Moore are making these plays. I don't think it's happening this year. For whatever reason, it's not the same as last year. But because they got that ring, I have to give them the benefit of the doubt. Now, to me, the big mistake was not getting a veteran wide receiver in the offseason, not entertaining the thought of

another pass catcher. I reported it on the Fox NFL kickoff show last week. Zach Ertz still hasn't signed with a team. Everyone thinks Baltimore, everyone thinks Philly. I know there has been some talks with Kansas City, or at least at the very least, Kansas City is in that conversation. To me, that makes a lot of sense because tight end or not, they just need reliable pass catchers at this point. Tony is one of these lightning rods and it's great. But when he had that in motion, he's all off the line and it's a crucial penalty against the Packers last week. Didn't make any of the highlight reels. Everyone's going to focus on the drop passives. That's fine. But when you get five and 10 yard penalties because you're lined up wrong, that's the stuff that crushes you. They thought Hardeman when they traded for him, maybe he would be a familiar thing.

The quote that was interesting was from Andy Reid after they beat the Raiders and Rasheed Rice had that breakout game. Andy said, I like what Rasheed Rice is doing. He's becoming more Mahomes friendly. And that to me is like, all right, someone, someone be the guy that Mahomes can lean on in this moment, in this season. Whereas last year, they all stepped up when they needed. And the AFC championship game will go forgotten, but every receiver was injured. And there was Valdez Scantling, like, give it to me. I'll make it happen. It was awesome.

This year, it hasn't happened in any of these games. And I thought it would be Rice, but then against the Packers, he wasn't the um kelsey is not the same kelsey that he was last year in the previous years i want to talk about this and i mean obviously taylor swift's fault i didn't read that in the time magazine piece no he's just older this happens to tight 34 years old and it's subtle coverage yeah he's getting double covered. It's subtle. But, you know, we always talk about the players and that they even say the word retirement

is probably done. It was a very, like J.R. Moringer who wrote the open book with Agassi and did the Meghan Markle and Harry book. And he did a Wall Street Journal

piece with Kelsey a couple of weeks ago that got very little media coverage. Like it didn't even get a bump and it was a good article on Kelsey. And Kelsey's talking about retirement and it's like, you hear that and it's like, all right, he might not be the guy that he was and this might be the last. So let's get the most that

we can out of it. But you can't expect Kelsey to go 11 catches, 189 yards, three touchdowns every game. You have to have someone else step up. Well, I don't know if he can do that anymore. It's subtle. It's not like a dramatic drop-off, but the first downs are down. The touchdowns are down. The yards per catch is down. The eye test, he just looks a hair slower. Even you saw in those last drives,

it just seems like... I remember this happened to Gronk. They're different tight ends, and Gronk was an unbelievable blocker and whatever. But Gronk hit that stage where it was like, oh, his burst off the line isn't totally the same, but he's still Gronk and he can still do all... He can still get to all the spots. It just takes

a little longer. And that's how I feel when I watch Kelsey. It takes like a whiff longer for him to get to his spots. You could even see it in that Hail Mary pass. He's chugging down there. He looked like he was like 45 years old. So this is what happens to old tight ends though. They're like point guards.

Of course. You lose that quick thing and it just changes. Gronk's been out of football for three years. He's retired once. He's did a season with Fox. Then he went back to the Buccaneers, won a Super Bowl. Then he's retired two more years.

Gronk and Kelsey are the same age. So don't take for granted that the 34 is real and he's retired two more years Gronk and Kelsey are the same age so it's you don't don't take for granted that the 34 is real and he's already had a Hall of Fame career and like I hope he can

turn it up but if he doesn't he's still very functional he just can't be your one and only well I think they protect him a little bit too

and they should but he it's not a lot of just him catching an 8 yard pass and getting blasted by his safety it's all like safe let's get this guy to January kind of stuff which is what the It's not a lot of just him catching an eight-yard pass and getting blasted by safety.

It's all like safe, let's get this guy to January kind of stuff, which is what the Pats started doing with Gronk near the end. But I think it hurts them in games when they need 70 yards. Sometimes they'll throw to that other, they have two other tight ends. Noah Gray. Those are the guys that'll get blasted over the middle on those eight, nine yarders because they won't use Kelsey for that anymore. Yeah.

The defense is really good, though. So it's like for years it was. Yeah, is it? It is. I wasn't impressed last week. I know. But the defense is good. Really good.

It looked like they had some injuries. They're going to get Nick Bolton back. That's the thing. It's like Mahomes. This is crazy stat, Bill, and, you, you're aware of it. My homes has never played a road playoff game outside of the Superbowl in Tampa when he lost. So they've always had the home field advantage. And that place is a huge advantage for everyone. Now he's lost a couple of those games, Patriots beat him and then the Bengals beat them. But to me, that one seed is so important in the 18-week schedule and now the new alignment with the seven teams that you get not only the bye, but you get just two home games and you can do it and you

can win. If Kansas City doesn't secure the one, it becomes a different road for them that we haven't seen enough to do. I don't think they're getting it. I think Miami's going to get it. Look, I thought they were done with it after they lost and then the Jaguars lose to the Bengals and suddenly they go from the four seed to the

three seed. The Dolphins' last three weeks are nearly impossible and the Ravens, as good as they've been and as much as we love the Ravens, they have had their issues in big games as well. I'm not writing off the Chiefs getting that one seed. I still think it's possible.

Dolphins, who I think are a different team at home, last three weeks they have Dallas, then they go to Baltimore. Early game too. Weird that that's not a night game. New Year's Eve, early game, 10 o'clock in Baltimore, and then their last game is home against the Bills. And the Bills might be playing still for their playoff lives.

It's tough, but they've had the last month off. They've gone Raiders, Jets, Commanders, Titans this week and whoever the hell the Jets are going to be playing a quarterback next week. That's like a five-week vacation. And it's just how the schedule goes and they can only play who they can

play, but you're not going to get the street cred from that. You have JJ in your life. Obviously, do you have a lot of other dolphins fans? I've got a few and it's there in that amazing place. Okay. So they're in that amazing place right now that I think you can sympathize with or empathize where it's,

do I appreciate this moment and really lean in and just put in like puff my chest or is it the impending nerves of like what's to come? And I always say to these fan bases, like whether it was the Bengals a few years ago or it was the Rams when they started finally winning. And of course all the Browns and lions seasons that they've had. And then the couple of enjoy it, enjoy it.

But like it, it's not going to be smooth as, as great as it's been and hard knocks is awesome. There will be a bump in the road. And that's where we're going to really find out about this team. Well, two things. One is them and the Niners,

I think, are in the same boat of like, if you're telling me you're going to be healthy all the way through January, I really like your chances. Totally. So they've checked all those boxes. But the Tyreek season they're getting

is so special. I mean, we had it with the Pats fans had it with Moss in 07 and it was so special and it was like, it was the most fun season and especially when I went

into fuck you mode after Spygate. But it was just like, there's no way I'm missing a play of the Pats and Moss and Brady and whatever they're capable of. This is like the best thing

I've ever had football wise in my life. And the Tyreek thing is like that. It seems like they want to get like 2,200 yards and 20 TDs for him or whatever. Like they're going for records with him this year. And they want to do it in 16 games. They don't want any asterisks.

Like they're going for it. Have you been watching? I know it's hard. There's a lot of content and football is on every night. Have you watched any of the in-season hard knocks with the Dolphins? I have not. Should I be doing in-season hard knocks with the Dolphins? I have not.

Should I be doing in-season hard knocks? I know. It's so much football. There's Thursday, there's Sunday 13 hours, there's Monday. It's my job and I love it. I put it on. Oh, it's awesome. It's good? Alright, I'll watch it. And McDaniel's such a quirky guy and his interactions and

Tua's so quiet and soft-spoken and yet has this like, this edge to him. But then Tyreek steals the show. Like Tyreek, Tyreek is a, is a thrill to watch on television on the field.

And then all the stuff that he's mic'd up on during the games, it's entertaining as hell. So they're one of those squads where, you know, I always would say like

September, October, like yes, the fastest team on the field, but that stuff slows down, injuries hit you, and suddenly you're in a cold weather game. They might not have to go in a cold weather at all. You look at that schedule that they have and then if they get a home playoff game and the home seed throughout, the number one seed,

they're good at home. They're just flat out. They're fast and comfortable. Vegas Super Bowls indoors, in a dream scenario, and I have so many of these Dolphins fans who tweet me and all of a sudden they're like hey like

we haven't had the number one seed this late in the season for 20 years like it's been since the Reno and even then there were so many

demons and so many you still have to beat the Bills you still have to beat the Broncos so this AFC is wide open and this Dolphins team

it's kind of looking good and the schedule lays out you just won't get the credibility until you beat one of these good teams. If you can handle that, enjoy the season. They're plus 750 for the Super Bowl. They're plus 310 for the AFC. KC's plus 220.

Baltimore's plus 270. Miami's plus 310. I think Miami should have the best odds. I actually think those odds are off because I think they're going to get the one odds. I actually think those odds are off because I think they're going to get the one seed. Let's take a break and we'll talk about Buffalo. After decades of shaky hands caused by debilitating tremors, Sunnybrook was the only hospital in Canada who could provide Andy with something special. Three neurosurgeons,

two scientists, one movement disorders coordinator, 58 answered questions, two focused ultrasound procedures, one specially developed helmet, thousands of high intensity focused ultrasound waves, zero incisions. And that very same day, two steady hands. From innovation to action, Sunnybrook is special. Learn more at sunnybrook.ca slash special. All right. So Buffalo's in a really interesting spot against the Chiefs, their nemesis, the team that the 13 seconds game, the bills were really never the same after that game.

I think as we get some distance from it, it's starting to look like a famous football game, like a real one, like the Biner game and some of the other ones we've had. I think the 13 seconds game is going to ascend up the ladder for like, oh man, remember that game? What a fork in the road, like the tuckiner game and some of the other ones we've had. I think the 13 seconds game is going to, going to send up the ladder for like, oh man, remember that game? What a fork in the road.

Like the tuck roll game. We call it the snow game with Pat's fans, but these certain games that they were great when they happened and really memorable. But then as the years passed, you're like, whoa, there are like seven other things that came out of that.

So they're playing the chiefs this week. They're plus one and a half. That line moved from three to one and a half. People seem to like the Bills who have been completely untrustworthy. And yet, like we talked about how the Eagles could easily be eight and four. The Bills could easily be nine and three.

And the Bills, the type of team they have from what we watched against the Chiefs last week, where you can just kind of move the ball on them with watched against the Chiefs last week where you can just kind of move the ball on them with the injuries the Chiefs defense has had. This to me feels like I'm trying to think of narratives

you would have on Monday with Kyle and the gang. Yeah. And that what time does your show come on? It comes on at 7? 7 a.m. Eastern.

7 my time? Yeah. Both the re-airs. So yeah. 4 a.m. your time. 7 your time. So you're on at 7.01. And it's like alright what's our first thing?

Are the Bills back? 100%. Is Josh Allen back? That feels like the most likely narrative this week, right? Coming off the bye. They had a chance to collect themselves. They get some guys back. And then all of a sudden it's like, wait, we know exactly what we have to do.

The water has calmed a little bit. We got to go to Kansas City where, by the way, they have won twice with Josh Allen over Patrick Mahomes. Yes, regular season games, but they have won there. Josh Allen is absolutely sensational in Arrowhead. I think it's 12 touchdowns, one interception. And then they've got the Cowboys at home in a must win. It's one of those deals. Well, if we're the Buffalo Bills and this stadium's got such a home field advantage and it's cold, what else can we ask for in December? The Cowboys coming to our place. And then they end the season with the Chargers, the Patriots, and a Dolphins team that potentially isn't playing for anything and has a playoff one seed all locked up. So you start telling yourself this and okay. Chiefs come in, they're limping in here. They're on a, they're, they just got beat up by a Packers team that were better than,

and you start forgetting the fact that you lost to the Patriots this year. You start forgetting the fact that you had to fire your offensive coordinator. And I tell you what, it's so, it's romantic to think that like this, if Josh Allen does do that, you better damn believe they're going to be the hot team going into the playoffs. And all of a sudden you start, this happens every year,

last five weeks, the hot team comes out of nowhere. It's like, Whoa, where'd these guys come from? It's like, well, this is,

but the spotlight of the bills right now, this was the Jaguars last year. It was the giants when they won in oh seven. We've seen, maybe the Packers Packers could be that team this year. The Rams could be that team this year. Kyle Brent, my colleague and I would call it the come running teams.

And it's forget what happened in September, October. What are they doing now? Hey, look, if the Rams beat the Ravens, their winners are five straight and they're just, they're rolling.

I don't want to face them. In this case, Buffalo, they haven't even started that yet, but you could already start doing tricks in your mind saying, all right, you look at the schedule. It's doable.

It's, it's actually a path. And if they do make it and I'm not playing, I don't want to play a fired up, but Josh Allen on a, on a tear, no way. Um, they've been, they've been the victims of some terrible losses this year. I mean, that Patriots game, it's going to haunt them. Jets week one. It was crazy.

If you look at it now, uh, you don't get those games back. What about the Denver game? That was the worst one of all of them. Um, I think they can move the ball on them and just looking at the everything that happened last week had to give them strength, right? Burrow gets hurt. Denver

loses. Houston loses tank, which I think I've watched a lot of Texas this year. The tank down. That's like not going to lead SportsCenter. That's fucking huge for them. Big plays week after week for that team. Cleveland. I don't know what's going to lead sports center. That's fucking huge for them. I mean, big plays week after week for that team. Um, Cleveland,

I don't know what's going on with their quarterback. And then he got Indianapolis seven and five who could be five and might actually make it. But if I'm Buffalo, I'm like, all right, we're six and six, but fuck this.

We'll be 10 and seven. I don't know if you mentioned it. Jacksonville is in their quarterback. Like, right. He might play. He might not either way. It was a high ankle sprain.

Like, that shit hurts. You look around that AFC, it is wide open. And if Buffalo thought their season was over after that loss to Philadelphia, they come out of the bye week and suddenly like, all right, we got a pass. Let's just go do it. And Jacksonville loses Kirk.

Yes, which is big. Literally, Buffalo hasn't played for a week and nine good things happened for them, just for the playoff picture. So they win this. They're 7-6. Oh, and the Steelers we didn't mention. Pickett.

He goes down. They're playing tonight against my terrible team and I can't imagine a worse sporting event to go against the in-season tournament. But yeah, it's lined up for Buffalo. They're relatively healthy on offense at least, right? Defense, you know, the Von Miller doesn't look like he's coming back.

They've had some major injuries on defense. Yeah, but like, that's the thing. It's a shootout team now. Exactly, that's what they are. And it's, you know, for seven weeks, I've been hearing from Bills fans that, you know, ah, Matt Milano, we lost Matt Milano. Like, all right, like you lost Matt Milano.

He's a great player. That's fine. 98% of the league has lost someone important and 60% of the league has lost their quarterback. So you lost Matt Milano, but you do have Josh Allen, Stefan Diggs, and you do have James Cook, and you do have all these guys that...

Hey, we lost Judon and Gonzalez. Right. And we've been lights out on defense, baby. You guys just turned the page and said- 36 points in 26 points in three weeks. Plus Steelers tonight. Did you see the joke was that they did a promotion for Amazon for the game and it was TJ Watt and it was Belichick, but they replaced Belichick.

Yeah, they replaced them. They did. And they went with Juwan Bentley and And that led to like, alright. Not a household name, but let's go. I actually would have done Barmore because he's been like an absolute beast in there. One other thing we should mention with the Chiefs that I

think ties into this Bills game and who wants it more, who needs it more. The Chiefs are, it's like when you have that stretch from Thanksgiving to Christmas if you've been working out staying in shape and then the wheels

kind of come off around Thanksgiving I'm not familiar with that and then there's a huge dinner the next Friday you're like I'm going to get back in shape

Christmas party this night you've got your friends in town Monday I'm going to get back in shape and then it's like it's December 13th Christmas is coming do I really want to put my two weeks in right now Bill are you Christmas is coming. This is exactly what I'm

going through. You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to go nuts now. And then December 27th, I'm back, baby. Tiled in. The Chiefs are in that kind of non-workout coma zone. Nobody's chasing them in their division, right. The Chargers are three back and they suck. Nobody else is coming to get them. The Broncos aren't. They're too far. The Chiefs could go 10-7 and win the division by two games. The Broncos

took the step back last week. I don't know. I just think to me this is football's a long season. You're going to have games where one game just means way more than it does to the other team. And I just don't see the urgency for the Chiefs in this other than the Bills or their little brother that they hit with the newspaper. I like the Bills comeback story this week, though. All right.

I'm in on it. Let's go. Can we talk a couple other quick storylines for you? Yeah. There's a Justin Fields audition right now because the bears are going to probably get one of the top two picks. Carolina loses to Tampa next week. Thanks to Mike Evans, the greatest receiver nobody's ever talked about. And they're going to be either the one or the two, which is puts them in the Caleb Williams, Drake May zone. And everybody is kind of

settling on those two. It's like, okay, this isn't quite Andrew Luck, Trevor Lawrence, but these guys really are pretty special or at least have the chance to be special. If you're the Bears, you know, if Fields really shows something over the next few weeks, and I think he's looked pretty good the last

couple weeks. They got the Lions this week who have a shit defense and they already beat them or almost beat them and the Lions came back with 17 points in the last four minutes. I think it was 12 points in the last four. Bears dominated the game, should have won.

They know they can hang with this team. But do you think there's a scenario where a field stays and they either trade out of that top two for more assets or maybe they just take Marvin Harrison at two. But what do you hear and what do you think? I would say this very conversation, locally in Chicago, of course, is already being had. I think it's one of the most fascinating conversations in the NFL, and it involves a team that's going nowhere.

How many years do you give a quarterback who seemingly has done everything you've asked of him and seemingly, though he has so much more to go, has it in him because we've seen it? Or when do you just say, you know what? We know it's not 100% your fault. We have to rip the bandaid off. We have to move on because here's the other part of it. Justin Fields is going to be entering his fourth year. That's contract extension time. So it's not just, let's give him another shot. It's let's give him another shot. And then, oh yeah, if we're passing on all these quarterbacks in multiple drafts, we also have to pay this guy $40 million. Are we even confident we want to do that? So it's a smarter money move to trade him for a second round pick and just take one of the two.

Yeah. But what's the goal? And they have their own pick. The first and the fifth pick right now, if they were to have the draft tomorrow. And you're going to tell me? So you could package that. You could do some things. But then you're like, Fields is our guy. And gosh, it's okay. You can't miss this.

This is it. This is a 15-year decision. You can't fuck this up. So they have a new team president. They have a new, and Kevin Warren, they have a new stadium situation that's looming. They have a second year GM who's already traded. I think that was a savvy move. If you're not looking for a quarterback, they traded up, they got DJ Moore. Then you have a about which player is going to move on in free agency. It's everything. In the draft, I look at these logos. You're talking about the Patriots with a top pick.

You're talking about the Giants with a top pick. You're talking about the Jets. You're talking about the Bears. Big markets. Washington's going to have a top pick. Big market teams. Great quarterback draft. Don't let everyone pour damp water on this.

There's going to be three or four quarterbacks going in the top 10. This is a really good quarterback draft. Don't let everyone pour damp water on this. There's going to be three or four quarterbacks going in the top 10. This is a really good quarterback draft. And it's like, this is what you want as an NFL draft fan. But if you're the Chicago Bears, are you going to look in the mirror and say, all right, we're moving on from this guy? Are you saying, legitimately, we're going to pass on a top overall pick twice because of a guy who's never won us any games? Yeah. Well, right now... I don't know. What do you do? We're going to pass on a top overall pick twice because of a guy who's never won us any games. Yep. Well, right now.

I don't know. What do you do? Well, part of it is who would trade up for it, right? So right now it's Caroline. It's the Pats. It's Arizona who's kind of stuck with Kyler. And then you got like that Washington Giants group in the 4-5 range. Hey, the Jets are at the 6th range.

The Jets in the 6th range, but I don't know what they do with the Rodgers piece. How do you handle that if you're the Jets? You have the 6th overall pick, and Rodgers already, you know how he feels about the pick from Jordan Love, and we're all in on Rodgers. We brought all the guys.

Nah, you're staying. They don't have the balls to take another group. Well, they would keep Rodgers. Rodgers took shots at them this week, and they were like, oh. But let's say they could, let's say Carolina gets one

because I think that's going to happen because they have a game lead on the Pats. That goes to Chicago. But their strength of schedule is going to be better and that goes to Chicago.

So I think Carolina is going to get one unless some miraculous Panthers comeback happens. And you could flip one to four. You get Washington, let's say Washington's fourth.

You get Washington's fourth. And you get a first. Then you get another first. And you have the fourth and the seventh picks. And you take the best left tackle and the second best receiver. You take Harrison. You take the second best left tackle.

And you keep Fields. If you think Fields is good, that is the move. Sure. So this is why the next five weeks. Wait, what happens if he beats Detroit this weekend? keep Fields. If you think Fields is good, that is the move. So this is why the next five weeks... What happens if he beats Detroit this weekend? Sure. This is what you called it, an audition. And it's crazy that in year three, in the last month of his season,

it's still an audition. This was Daniel Jones last year for the Giants in a lot of ways. He was a top 10 pick, had been good enough to consider it, but wasn't good enough to give him the extension. And then Daniel Jones went on this incredible season where he wins a playoff game on the road and you're like, well, I guess we have to pay him. Justin Fields can't do that. But what he can do is he can win the final four weeks of the season. He can take care of business. He can show that

he's the guy and there's enough positive momentum where it's like, how about we surround him? The alternative is if you're scouts and Ryan Poles has a good front office and let's assume everyone's back this offseason, they go and they talk to Lincoln Riley and they go and they talk to Cliff Kingsbury and they go and they do the work and they're like, no, this Caleb Williams can't miss. And maybe you say, we got to just tear it all down

and we start over and Caleb Williams is our guy. I'm getting, because people know, obviously, the Pats are going to have a top two pick. Knock on wood for the Steelers last night. So all these different people are texting me because they know I care about the draft and I've been talking about it. And I've gotten a few, not even just from football people,

from outside football people who are just like, Caleb Williams is special? Like that would be insane if they, if you guys got him like after you had 20 years of Brady, this guy might be like a magical quarterback. And that kind of got me excited.

But I know like neither of us are huge college football guys, but that is floating around there. Like don't sleep on the fact that this guy might be magical. Here's, here's where I'm at.

I'm, I'm not a Saturday afternoon Ryan Rusillo travel to, you know to the Death Valley. I'm not that guy. I would never claim to be. I am a draft guy. So I will openly say I don't watch these guys necessarily. I'm not watching the North Dakota State game on a Thursday night to see their prospect. But once the season ends, I am senior bowl heavy and I talk to all the evaluators. And my thoughts are usually formulated by, here's what people I trust say. And there's usually pretty good accuracy. Already, I've had the Caleb Williams,

Drake May conversations, obviously. The Caleb thing is interesting because there are a lot of haters out there, but they're not the football people. The football people say, this guy is unbelievable. People don't like the fact that he... The NIL money, and he's on a Wendy's commercial, he transferred from Oklahoma and his dad's very involved and he paints his nails and you say all the crap, all that. This dude can ball and he makes throws with

a way and a tenacity that the Mahomes thing, I saw Van Lathan compared him to Mahomes and I'm sure a lot of people fell out of their chair. He's not Mahomes yet, but the way that he can make a play and see a player and throw the ball and release it, it's a good comparison. Now, the key person in the context is going to be Kingsbury through all this because Kingsbury coached Mahomes in college and has just spent the year with Caleb Williams. He's going to be a very

important person in this thing and how he sees it all. And I talked to Cliff and he hasn't given me the full breakdown here, but he's like, it's a different deal with Caleb because Caleb was being paid millions of dollars already. Caleb already was this NIL, post NIL world, and the spotlight's been on him in a way that it wasn't on Patrick. So how he's handled that has been even more admirable. It's almost like your own rookie season. Yeah. Yes. And he lives in a nice apartment where in college football, that was never the deal.

He's on Wendy's ads making millions of dollars and he's handled it with grace and the players all still love him and he's one of the dudes. So it's going to be a different evaluation in a post-NIL world than what it's always been with just the football. And I think people are tearing Caleb

down for that and some of the stuff that he's out there with, he's his own person, he's good, and he's a great teammate. So I'm really curious to see how it all goes down because there's one thing about the draft industry. It's, let's tear these guys down and then build them up. And I could see the teardown coming on Caleb. And I'd say, be patient with that. The people that know say he's unbelievable.

I mean, one move they could make if the Pats got two and Carolina has one, gives it to Chicago, and Chicago could just flip spots with the Pats, get stuff, then go from two to four, get more stuff. They could double trade it and still end up if they wanted to keep Fields. But I can't believe I'm saying this. I kind of like Fields. I think he's gotten better this year.

I think there's a, there was a confidence to him in a couple of these games, especially that Lions game a couple weeks ago. I think there's a roadmap for him being a good QB, especially when we watch

all these shitty QBs every week. And it's like, here's a guy who clearly knows how to do three or four things that are at an elite level. And I don't know if he can put it all together,

but there's something here. Is he accurate? Not always. The fact that you're saying, I think I kind of maybe like Fields. I get it. Is that enough for you to say, we're going to pass on two first overall quarterbacks?

We're going to pass and then for the rest of my life, I'm the guy that didn't take Caleb Williams. That's the other thing. It's the psychology of the GMs. That's why New Orleans never traded Zion. You don't want to be the GM that didn't take Caleb Williams. That's the other thing. It's the psychology of the GMs. That's why New Orleans never traded Zion. You don't want to be the GM that traded Zion. No doubt. And meanwhile, you watch Zion,

and he's still out of shape, and he's been in the league for five years. Sure. Four years. But you don't want to be the guy when he figures it out, and you were the guy that traded him. Tyson Bajan, the counter,

Tyson Bajan won two games with the Bears, and it's like you know we got it from the kid from Shepard got us two wins and Fields got us a couple wins

like at what I don't know it's really hard and this is Who's the worst quarterback with two wins this year? I don't know who's it

Dobbs? Does DeVito have two yet? Oh yeah DeVito's got two DeVito's won two in a row, baby. The answer's DeVito. I've never seen a person in this market. And Lynn Sanity was great.

And Jeremy Lynn was an incredible sensation. I've never seen someone lean into it more than DeVito. He loves it. No, if The Sopranos was still on, he would absolutely make a cameo in the next season. He'd be like, hey guys, can I just stop by Bada Bing? His agent's a great guy. His guy, Sean Stilato, great guy and super marketing guy.

An agent's agent and he's cool. And he's hitting me up with press releases that DeVito's at this butcher this weekend promoting a meat company. If you want to pop by, I'm like, I love it. Just do it all. Get it in while you can. Kudos to him. Does he reach the five years later?

He's going to the big Italian feast and it's like, Giants legend Tommy DeVito is here. He's already there. He's courtside at the Garden already. If he never plays another snap. I love it. He's leaned into it.

His family's great. It's a bleak season. They've won two in a row. They're four and eight. He's going to be an NFL quarterback. Yeah, but his teammates like him. You can see it on the sidelines. As you know,

the body language doctor is constantly looking at quarterback-receiver relationships. They fucking love DeVito. They love him. And they interviewed Saquon and Saquon who can go into a contract year again and it hasn't gone as he's wanted.

It's been banged up. And they're like, what is this motion that he does with his fingers and saquon's like that's jersey baby that's jersey it's like the most animated saquon oh my god and apparently in the locker room and i'm not there every day for shame but i'm on i'm in new york whatever but i hear people and i got to saquon like after the first couple devito losses saquon had his back and was like no tommy's like one of my guys. And the players really rallied around him. The DeVito story is really fun for what's been

a terrible New York football season. I am not putting the Packers in the tees this week, a million dollar picks. The road favorites six and up have been a little dicey this year, but just in general, something about the game scares me. The Packers

just getting smoke blowing up their asses for a couple weeks. Oh, nice easy game against the Giants. They'll beat the Giants. The Giants, they hang around in some of these games. And their record could actually be a couple wins better than it is. I mean, they got lucky in the Pats game, but they've hung around. One more team I wanted

to talk about before we go. The Vikings get Jefferson back. And they had a weird Dobbs situation. They're favored by three against Vegas this week. They had a weird Dobbs situation where it seemed like he was going to get benched, and then O'Connell doubled down on him. It's like, I told Josh, he's my

guy. Jefferson's back. Addison now moves to the second spot, which is great for him. I like Ty Chandler. I could see Ty Chandler. Our fantasy guys were talking about him this week on their pod. There's some potential Ty Chandler buzz,

but it all depends on Dobbs. They're playing this crappy Vegas team that has a bad defense that they should be able to move the ball on. They can blitz Aiden O'Connell. The line's only three. Why don't people believe with the Vikings? People are off the scent, it feels like.

Yeah, I think, I mean, after they beat the Niners in that fashion, and then they lose Cousins, and then they still win these games with Dobbs. It was fun, but, you know, Dobbs was really bad the last time he was on the field. They go on the bye week, and it's like, all right, is it going to be Jaron Hall's time? The fact it's even a consideration tells you they're probably going to lean with the young. They go on the bye week and it's like, all right, is it going to be Jaron Hall's time? The fact it's even a consideration tells you they're probably going to

lean in with the somebody else. There was some Nick Mullins buzz. Mullins. And O'Connell waited all the way to Wednesday. And then he's like,

no, we're going back to Dobbs. We'll see. Not every team can make the playoffs. The Vikings, they're one of those teams that it was a they're trying to

hold things together once Cousins got here. So you think stay away. That sounds like you don't know where we're going with that. I do know who you like, though, in a Ravens minus seven half against the Rams with no Mark Andrews game. Yeah.

I'm guessing. Of course, I'm taking my boy. Let's go. They're hot, man. Your guy's been reliable. They're hot. He had a kid, and they lost the first two games. And I'm like, oh, he's going to resent this kid the rest of his life.

And then they went on this hot streak. And I'm not kidding. I have an eight-month-old at home. He's got a couple-month-old at home. The texts I'm getting at 2 a.m. Pacific, and he's up, and he's with the baby, but he's also in the lab doing the McVay thing. It's great. So he's working on no sleep, and he's also in the lab doing the McVay thing. It's great. He's working on no sleep

and he's just got this team going. It's been cool because you knew that Stafford and Donald were going to do fine if they're healthy. They're rookie class. This kid, Kobe Turner, number 91, he leads all rookies in sacks. Lines up next to Aaron Donald. No one knows

who he is. Nakua is a fifth-round pick. No one expected that. Kyron Williams is a three-pick from last pick. No one expected that. Kyron Williams is a day three pick from last year. No one expected it. And then their offensive line is a bunch of... By the way, Williams is good. He's good. Now, here's the thing. Like, legit good.

He blocks his ass off. I like that guy. He is... This is going to sound dismissive. He doesn't have the top-end speed. So, like, he's never going to be the guy that goes for a 70-yard dash. He'll go for the 40-yard dash.

But he's everywhere he needs to be, and he's a reliable receiver.. He'll go for the 40 yard dash, but he's, he's everywhere you need to be. And he's reliable receiver. And they liked him so much last year. And I think the story was like, Cam Akers and McVay don't get along. No, Kyron Williams was so good in training camp that all the fantasy people were, were pissed that like Cam Akers wasn't getting carries,

but they loved Kyron. Then Kyron got hurt on special teams, which killed him. Long story short, they've got the old guys, they've got the young guys and they've got the classic Bill Simmons, best thing you could possibly have, nobody believe in us card. And it's like, great. Well, this is house money at this point. I thought we were tanking for Caleb Williams. This might be Sean's greatest coaching job, getting this

motley crew of characters to where they are right now. Now, do they go into Baltimore and do what Seattle and Detroit did, Come in all high and mighty and get their ass kicked? Maybe. I just don't see it. I think they're a very well-coached team and they're tough. Rams to win the first half.

Rams to win the game. Plus 480 on FanDuel. So you figure if the Rams win in Baltimore, it's not going to be a come from behinder. It will be a we came out. We had a really good first drive, we controlled the first quarter and half of the game. Lamar, a couple third downs that don't go the right way.

Now the Ravens get that uh-oh sound in the stadium. 10-0. Rams, what's going on here? And then the Rams just kind of hold on for dear life. Their offensive line, the Rams, is made of nobodies. You don't know their names. A couple of these guys, you might- The stats are good on them though. They didn't give up a single sack last week to Miles Garrett and those guys. The week before,

they've been awesome. So they're coming together. It's a learning process. They're figuring it out. But you look at that Ravens team and it's, what is their offense going to look like without their number one option? And I know that's not fair to them. Let's see it. They're coming off the buy, and I'm sure Odell and Zay Flowers and Bateman will be fine. But Mark Andrews, Mark Andrews is as important to any team from a receiving option

as anyone because he's always been Lamar's guy since they were drafted together in the same draft class. It's real. And Lamar looked really dejected when he found out that Andrews was out for the season.

He'll be okay. They'll figure it out. Isaiah likely is like 38 years old. They're like, this is the year. No, he's a young Isaiah. He'll be okay. They'll figure it out. Isaiah Likely is like 38 years old. They're like, this is the year! No, he's a young Isaiah! No, I know. It's just they've done this, what, three straight years with him? Yeah, been hearing his name for a couple years now. In 2036,

they're like, Isaiah Likely, this could be it! Here he comes! I love guys that we see like Latavius Murray was getting carries for one of the teams. Oh, yeah. He's like the new Fred Taylor. I love that. I love you seeing these guys. Josh Norman is on special teams for a team

this year. I'm like, I love that. Just keep on going. Deron Harmon is on a practice squad somewhere. I'm like, hell yeah, Deron. Let's go. Let's end on the Colts because they have a chance to go 8-5, which is just unbelievable. Minshew, who was sitting there

for anybody last year, they go get him and just checks all the boxes of the classic backup QB that's like overqualified to be a backup. Sal and I talked about this on Sunday.

Is this a 10-win team to you? So it seems improbable, but you think like they got Taylor after week five. Their younger receivers, I think, have been pretty good. That Pierce makes a giant play every single week. Every single week, he makes like a 40-yard

something. Pittman's not a 4-3 burner. Pittman is very reliable. Very good. Yeah, they move the ball. I've seen them in spots where it's like, oh man, that was probably it for them. And then they'll go 80 yards and it feels like they can go in five. But what do you make of this whole Minshew mania? You look at the schedule, just

okay, the quarterbacks they're playing in the next five weeks. Jake Browning, Mitchell Trubisky, Desmond Ritter, Aiden O'Connell, and CJ Stroud. Can they do that? Yeah, they could do it. They could do it. They could do that. And the Minshew thing is cool. Shame on every other NFL team. He was sitting there. You said two years

ago you wanted him to be the Patriots quarterback. You've been pushing Minshew. He went to the Eagles last year. They loved him in Philly. Loved him so much so that when Steichen gets the gig, he brings over Minshew. Minshew thought when he signed, this is my opportunity. I'm going to be a starter, rebuilding.

Then they draft Richardson and to a man I love stories like this. He doesn't even for a second show any animosity, any resentment. Tell me what you need. I'll be there. I'll be his best backup. I was backup for Jalen Hurts. I've been backup for whoever else in the past in Jacksonville.

I'll be that guy. And he was great to Richardson. Richardson goes down and the players, they absolutely love him. They love him. And Steichen and him speak the same language. It's so important. These guys have carryover from a successful team. They've seen it. They love him. And Steichen and him speak the same language. It's so important. These guys have carryover from a successful team.

They've seen it. They can believe it. And I can't say enough about the quarterback and coach relationship in the NFL. And him and Steichen have a great one.

He's also been very important with those. I love, this should just be a Twitter account where people run these, but the post-game locker room. Locker room dance guy.

Game ball stuff. Game ball should just be a Twitter feed, but Minshew had a great locker room thing this week great one and it was it was an extra

little move at the end if you watch it state of the end like it's like a there's a nice little Easter egg at the end and it does like another little shimmy at the end

I'm like that's my guy you can tell the teammates like them Bengals D 27th DVOA 30th on first down 28th on third down 32nd yards per play,

27th against the pass, 31st against the rush. Colts are favored by two and a half. Their defense is 26th. Possible Jake Browning-Gardner Minshew shootout? It's good. A little over? Outside in Cincinnati, the weather could play a role here. I know we're wrapping soon, but can I give you a quick Browning thing that I loved?

Please. I was going to ask you. So Jake Browning was high school player of the year in California. Goes to Washington where he plays a bunch of years. He got hurt. 40 games. Gets hurt. Was sixth in the Heisman his sophomore year.

Through 40 touchdowns. Awesome player. So he's always been the dude, and that matters. Matthew Stafford was the number one high school recruit, the number one college recruit, the number one pick in the draft. Browning has that swagger now. His career, 20 different transactions, was on the practice squad, cut Minnesota, this, that.

Ends up in Cincinnati, takes it upon himself to say, okay, Burrow's got this thing going. It's me versus Trevor Simeon for the backup role. Spends the off season training with Burrow and with Jordan Palmer, who's Carson Palmer's little brother and is one of these quarterback gurus. And basically he's like, I got my own shit. I'm going to look at what Burrow does and try my best to emulate Burrow. And so Burrow's younger than him. Doesn't matter. He goes. He and Burrow are maybe the same age,

whatever it is. It's not like he's 10 years younger. They go and they work out all the time. So that when he goes down, Burrow, everyone else is like, Jake Browning sucks. Jake Browning doesn't have it. Their season's done.

But the rest of the team was like, all right, we know he's beating out our veteran backup for the job. We know that he's put the work in. And oh rest of the team was like, all right, we know he's beating out our veteran backup for the job. We know that he's put the work in. And oh, by the way, he was the big man on campus at a huge state school and also the number one player in high school. This guy can ball and he carries himself that way. That sort of confidence and that sort of swagger, it's a lot of that stuff you and I can roll our eyes at. The players feed off of it. You know I love it. Yeah, if that guy's confident and that guy knows he's the dude and he's been the dude before, well then shit, I'll go into war with him.

And what they did in Jacksonville was awesome. And he led them. He was awesome. He was as good as any quarterback. On a Monday night. Under the lights. Great. It's what the Pats did not have with Mac Jones and Bailey Zapp in this year.

Don't laugh. There's guys throughout the, like, you look at Josh Rosen in his career, never developed. Mac Jones, maybe. And you guys throughout the, like, you look at Josh Rosen in his career, never, like, developed. Mac Jones, maybe. And you can do the psychology of it a billion different ways and players used to love Mac

and maybe they don't. Who knows? But, you know, when Jake Browning comes in and you see the team not miss a beat, it's like,

oh, that dude has the, has the locker room. Tommy DeVito has the locker room. Stuff matters. How do you quantify it? I have no idea. Browns minus three over the

Jags was the only other game we didn't mention. I just look at Browns at home. I think their defense is just lights out. Lawrence on one leg. No Christian Kirk. A lot of Parker Robinson in big spots. Six catches for him

last week. Six rounder Parker. Parker Washington and Parker Robinson. Pick them both. I don't like the spot for the Jags at all. Like at all. This could be a Browns defense win. The million dollar picks I'm looking at. Browns minus three over the Jags.

There's a Dallas to win with the over 42.5 is minus 111. Does that game have 43 points, Philly and Dallas? 24-21 final? I could see that, yeah. Or you do the Dallas first half, Dallas game. Bears plus three against the Lions, kind of like.

So you think Minnesota minus three over Vegas is a stay away? I would stay away. I don't feel, I don't know what we're getting from the Vikings out of the bye week. I don't, you know, Jefferson's back, yes, but it's Dobbs. I don't know what we're getting from the Vikings out of the bye week. Jefferson's back, yes, but it's Dobbs. I don't know. Stay away from those. We both like the Bills.

I like the Bills. And I've already picked the Chiefs to win the Super Bowl and I will not get off that corner, but I like the Bills in this game. There's a Niners first half, Niners game against Seattle combined with Buffalo plus seven and a half

and that's like minus 119 on Fandle. So it's like, can Buffalo be a one-score game? Can the Niners just win the first half in their game? Basically even odds. I was looking at that. And then it depends on how hard you want to go on this. How much do they want Tyreek to get 2,000 yards in 16 games? But there's a Miami first half and game against Tennessee

with Tyreek to score one TD. And then he could go 90 plus yards is plus one 90. You can start jacking it up. You can get it to 150 yards. Now we're in like the four to one range. What do you think? You want this to be ours? What do you want? Yeah. The Tyreek thing is, is it's, it's secondary to them. They've got to win the game. They know it, but it's Monday Night Football. People are going to be watching, and it's like, this is the... Yes, yes. All the Tyreek, yes.

So you want... I don't want anything. You do it. I'm just telling you, yes. No, no, I want us to have one. All right, here's what it would be. Miami wins first half game. Tyreek, anytime touchdown.

Tyreek, 125 plus yards, plus 257. That sounds delightful. It's Monday night. Let's just bet on Tyreek Hill every week. And should we bet against Zach Wilson in million dollar picks? Or is that just, I've never seen somebody lose the job and the team be like, you know what? It just can't work anymore.

We've broken up with you. And then it's like three weeks later, hey, Zach, want to be the QB this week? No more Tim Boyle. He's out. Stay away for you. Cut Boyle. They brought in Brett Rippon, dude. Cut Boyle. Well, Boyle's the worst quarterback I think who's ever played NFL. I feel for Boyle. He didn't expect to play. He's a camp owner.

He's like, Rodgers is boy. He's like, all right, I'll come there. You're actually starting. He's like, what? It's like if I was a starting quarterback and I'm like can Joe House be the third string quarterback he's my guy we go over the plays

every week they're like yeah that's great we'll get Joe House and then all of a sudden Joe House is playing quarterback sorry House you couldn't do it

with your bad hip house Rodgers had a 40th birthday party and I wasn't invited I'm bummed oh no well Texans are minus three and a half

against the Jets and I actually think they're a stay away because that Jets defense especially against the pass is really good I mean the Jets defense all jokes aside

the Jets defense is as good as any of those Niners defenses that Salah coached there and it's just a shame that it's all for naught Schrags an absolute pleasure to see you.

It's great seeing you, man. Thank you. Enjoy Vegas. Thank you. All right, we're taping this last part of the pod. Million dollar picks. It is much later than we talked to Schrager, almost 10 hours later, and the Patriots blew the number one pick.

They beat Pittsburgh. I was stuck in the Lakers Pelicans game. Kyle, you were watching the game. What happened? How did we actually win this game? What happened? Bailey Zappi throws three touchdowns in the first half. It's like all the stuff we were talking about with Schrager, like, oh, I think Fields, could he be the guy? I'm like, is is Bailey Zappy the Justin Fields of the Patriots? And then they all look terrible in the half. And then I, I think there's a rollercoaster ride. I think that the Steelers are going to crawl back and then there's a

ridiculous call. That should be a, it was definitely a, an offsides on the defense. They call it a false start on the, on the snapper for the, the punt i mean what what now and so yeah how about it was third and two at midfield 205 left for pittsburgh so they have the two-minute warning coming up and they they only one time out left and they fucking threw it like run the ball you can run the ball on the pats get the first down if you don't get it the two-minute warning stops it you're closer you i I just seem like Tomlin and my phone was blowing up. Apparently Tomlin, uh, people thought he was off on that game, but, uh, awful loss for the Steelers. We talked earlier with Schrager about,

you know, Buffalo had all these things go right during their bi-week. This was another one. Now, now the Steelers fell back to the pack, but for the Pats, is that the worst win we've had since you've been a Pats fan? Probably, especially because in the first nine minutes of the fourth quarter, I had full confidence we were blowing this. And then I was like, you know, it's actually okay. It was like a hedging of bets of sorts. It cost everything for this win. It cost us everything. I don't know. It's terrible. And Trubisky, who is just the worst and just was sailing throws over wide open receivers' heads. Man, brutal stuff.

All right, we're going to do some million-dollar picks. I did really well last week. I won $728,000, and I'm up $804,000 for the year. And I've been pretty consistently winning at least a little bit over 50%. And I really like this slate yet again. So here's what we got for week 14. First one, as we talked about with Schrager, I love the Dallas Cowboys. And this week against the Eagles who have been from the schedule from

hell, I think Dallas is going to move the ball on them all game. I think their offense is going to deliver. And I don't love the three and a half, so I'm going to get a little funky here. I'm going to take Dallas to win the game with an adjusted over under of 42 and a half. That is minus 111. And that way, if Dallas moves the ball like I think they're going to, the game's going to be, let's say, 27-20, 24-21, something like that. That's what I'm looking for. So we're going to have that one. Going to put 300K on that. We are going to put 300K on the Niners to win the first half and the game against Seattle because that's what's going to happen. With Buffalo, plus seven and a half. I wanted to take Buffalo just to win the game outright against the Chiefs,

and I thought about it all day, and I got more and more scared of Mahomes. And what I'm going to do is, I think it's at least a one-score game. I think Buffalo has a really good chance of winning. And I'm going to put that with the Niners. First half game, minus 119 is the line for that. We're going to put 300K on that. I love the Browns. Minus 3 against the Jaguars.

Flacco, you impressed me last week. Jaguars on the road. Trevor Lawrence playing with a high ankle sprain. They lost Kurt for the season. I think the Browns defense just wins it. Bad weather. This is a defense bad weather game. Browns minus three.

We're putting 300K on that. The Bears, who almost beat the Lions a couple of weeks ago and should have. Now they're home. Bad weather. Jared Goff. Need I say more? Yeah, I'll say a couple more things. Lions have had some injuries. Lions have a terrible, terrible defensive stretch that they're on right now. And I think the Bears can control the game, move the ball around, run the ball. We're going to take the Bears plus three. So buy ourselves a little room in case the Lions do something dumb and actually win the game. Going to put 300K on that. And then last but not least, this is just a weird one. I'm fascinated by the Rams-Baltimore game, and I think the Rams can hang around. But I also think Baltimore is probably goingBaltimore game, and I think the Rams can hang around.

But I also think Baltimore is probably going to steal the game at the end. So we're going to do something wacky. You can bet this on Fando, and we've done this with first half of the game. I'm going to put 50K on the Rams to win the first half, but the Ravens to win the game. That is plus 700. So that's what we're doing for a million dollar picks. And just for the record, a couple of things with that Dallas game that I forgot to mention. Eagles defense, they're 29th, 28th, 30th, 32nd, red zone, third down, first downs, passing yards,

every defensive category. They're really bad. And this is the week Dak, he lays the smack down. He throws himself in the MVP conversation. The Dallas fan, this is it. This is their Super Bowl. And I feel really good about that Dallas game. So to recap, 300K on Dallas to win with the over 42 and a half minus 111. Niners first half end game with Buffalo plus seven half. That's minus 119, 300 K on both of those 300 K and the Browns minus three, 300 K and bears plus three. And then 50 K on the Rams to win the first half and Baltimore to win the game. Plus 700.

Those are the million dollar picks for week 14. All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Rob Mahoney. Thanks to big wise thanks to peter strager thanks to cal creighton and steve cerruti as always and i'll see you on this feed on sunday on the way I don't have a few years with them. On the wayside, I'm a Bruce O'Leary. I don't have a few years with them.

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