The Bill Simmons Podcast - A Kevin Wildes–Dave Jacoby Reunion, Plus Freddie Gibbs Finally Comes On

Episode Date: February 22, 2022

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Kevin Wildes and David Jacoby to cover a wide-ranging list of topics, including NBA All-Star Weekend, LeBron James’s future in Los Angeles, and Aaron Rodgers on social media. Finally, Kevin and Jacoby pitch Bill on some half-baked ideas about Tom Brady, target scoring in basketball, and more (2:38). Then, Bill is joined by rapper Freddie Gibbs to talk about his experiences in the music industry, the similarities between rappers and athletes, his future in movies, and more (66:56). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Kevin Wildes, David Jacoby, Freddie Gibbs Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Coming up, I have two dramatic reunions for you. Not as dramatic as Andy and Red at the end of Shawshank, but dramatic nonetheless. That's next. It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. Football is in full action. FanDuel's highest rated sports book is the best place to bet it all.

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my old friend, Miller Lite. I've been a big fan of Miller Lite, man, since college days when I was allowed to have beer. I think nephew Kyle is a fan too. Miller Lite keeps it simple for us. Undebatable quality, great taste. Picture this, it's game day, all the gangs here, you're tailgating outside the stadium. It's a great time for beer. Or how about when you're standing at the grill and the smell of sizzling burgers is in the air? Moments like that. Or when you want a light beer that tastes like beer, that's delicious. You don't want to load up on those heavier beers and then you only have two of them. Then you feel

tired. Your stomach feels full. Miller Lite, it's your friend. It just accompanies whatever else you're doing. You're super happy with it. Opening an ice cold Miller Lite can signal the beginning of Miller time. Miller Lite is the light beer with all the great beer tastes we like. 90 calories per 355 mil can. So why not grab some Miller Lites today? Your game time tastes like Miller time. Must be legal drinking age. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where I put up a new rewatchables on Sunday night. We did Kramer versus Kramer. It is the fourth and almost last installment of F'd Up Family February. Sean Fantasy,

Miley Rubin, and myself, three children of divorce, talking about the greatest divorce movie of all time. One of the great dramas of all time. So you can check that one out. We have The Ice Storm coming next Monday. That's the last episode of FWF. And then we'll do some big ones. Yeah, in March. It's time.

We'll bang out a couple bangers. So that's happening. No FanDuel, same game parlay for me this week because there is no NBA until Thursday night. Maybe I'll do one over the weekend. But we are heating up the Ringer Gambling Show. You can check it out. John Jastrzemski is on there. I think he's going to be on there twice a week doing some basketball stuff. Your buddy Joe House is going to be on there. So all that has happened. We're also starting to ramp up the Prestige TV podcast again because there are some awesome shows coming in March. So this week,

Euphoria, Nora and Joanna have been breaking that down every Sunday night. The season finale is next week. So be ready. We'll be doing that on Monday morning. I know Joanna and Van Latham are going to do Severance a little bit later this week. We might have a Euphoria season finale preview on Friday. Not sure. Possible. But then once we get into next week, there's just a bunch of great shows coming out. Excited to talk about them. Whole rotating cast of people. And if you don't subscribe to Prestige TV podcast yet, I'm not sure what you're doing. You should be subscribing. So coming up, my old friends, Dave Jacob and Kevin Wilds. Very close on their own

right. Close with me. We've never been on the same podcast together since I started The Ringer. That's happening. And then Freddie Gibbs, who I've been talking about doing a podcast with for 11 years, 12 years. 12 years? Yeah. One of my son's favorite rappers, he insisted that we drive to go see Freddie and then I bring him. So we did that yesterday and that is also coming up. This is an action-packed pod. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we're taping this. It is a little past 10 o'clock Pacific time on Tuesday.

It is the reunion of Kevin Wilds and Dave Jacoby, who first started working together at ESPN in 2006 as behind the scenes people. 2005 or 2006? I think 2001. Five years off. Yeah, I was there. I was there in 2000, I think. Yeah, 2000.

Listen, other than the five-year gap that I just screwed up, I was dead on. I met you guys in 2006. We weren't on your radar. Yeah, you see the world through your lens. Yeah, I was the on. I met you guys in 2006. We weren't on your radar. Yeah. You see the world through your lens. Yeah. I was the only child thing. So then we all got to know each other. We all started hanging out.

We started innovating stuff. We became buddies. And then eventually, Wilds was writing stuff for Grantland. Jacoby was running audio and video for us since day one of Grant Lin the entire time. He was our czar. And then all these years later, you guys are

now on television shows. Jacoby's on Jalen and Jacoby has been for years. Wilds is on First Things First on FS1 and you guys became talking heads. You went from behind the camera to talking heads. So what we're going to do is we're going to talk because you guys are now Talking Heads.

I thought we'd talk about Talking Heads stuff. Great. I want to play a game called Do We Care? I'm going to start with LeBron James, who hijacked All-Star Weekend because the Lakers are 27 and 31. Hijacking. Full-fledged hijacking. Went back to Cleveland.

The hometown thing should have been enough, but now we got a lot, a lot of Laker stuff. What's going on. Are they going to help him? He's disappointed. They didn't get him more assets. I just want to point out that LeBron got them to basically trade every asset they have for Anthony Davis and Russell Westbrook. They had no assets left. We're talking about a 2027 first round pick. So for him to be mad about that seems super hypocritical to be more importantly, he's talking about going back

to Cleveland potentially who knows what will happen. Wilds, do we care? Do we care if 40 year old LeBron goes back to Cleveland? Yes. I care about everything LeBron. And you said he hijacked all-star weekend. It was a hijacking. No, no. I thought the gravitational pull of LeBron has never been stronger and you just scratched the surface. So I wrote them down. He talked about playing with Bronny, which was also just like, I'm not retiring a Laker. So he checked that one off. He, um, he broke back his old, by the way, I'm better than Michael Jordan. Once I came back from three-1, he broke that one out. Maybe I'll go back to Cleveland.

I was all for that, even though we actually already did it. He's like, well, it's a storybook ending, but maybe I'll do it again. That worked. And then he hit the game-winning shot. Yes. And broke out the satchel. You're acting like wearing a liquor satchel is not major news. Broke out the satchel. You're acting like wearing a liquor satchel is not major news. Broke out the satchel.

So yes, for me, we did the whole show on Monday just about LeBron. And we didn't even really get into the Palenka stuff. And I was complimenting all the GMs. I care in a major way. And I want to take this opportunity, Jacoby, to thank LeBron James for providing us with endless content. He could have just done one or two things in the satchel he did six things for content for first things first and I tip my cap to him don't forget don't forget this wow it's one key point just earlier in the

week like last Wednesday it was Rich Paul not LeBron who said oh by the way LeBron's journey has been much tougher than Michael Jordan's. Yeah. That one is underreported. I love that so much. And I want someone who rides for me the way Rich Paul rides for LeBron. That is another favorite of mine. But I do want to say before I dive into the weekend, Bill, is it possible that as a diehard Celtics fan who had playoff series against LeBron

early in his career, is it possible? This is just a question. Is it possible that maybe consciously or unconsciously you're maybe a little bit biased against LeBron James? I'm not saying you are.

I'm just asking you to look in the mirror and ask if you are. Great question. I've written a lot of really good stuff over the years about LeBron. Here's where I stand with the LeBron thing. The Lakers are 27 Great question. I've written a lot of really good stuff over the years about LeBron. Here's where I stand with the LeBron thing. The Lakers are 27 and 31. And I just think there were better stories than us talking about LeBron again all weekend.

And I do think that they head into these weekends thinking like, what's our plan? What do we want to accomplish? How do we get the most attention this weekend? And they did it. It worked out perfectly. He dropped the Bronny card. By the way, Bronny's the fourth best player on Sierra Canyon. I do think he has a chance to be in the NBA,

but I don't think it's going to be after his freshman year. I think that would be, he'd really have to make a jump, I think, as a prospect. So every year that he has to stay in college to improve his chances to be in the NBA, LeBron's going to be a year older. So just like, I don't think it's a slam dunk. They play together personally, but I do think he looked at the weekend as how do I bring

the attention back to me? Because my team is four games under 500 and we're going to be in the play-in tournament and we might not even make the actual playoffs. So how do I grab this weekend by the balls, which is what he did. Yeah. You know, what was the best part of it,

Bill, Chris Paul out for eight weeks because he's hurt. He's like, by the way, I'm going to get a, I'm going to get a few minutes in the all-star game. Didn't even talk about it. It wasn't even a real score.

He's out for eight weeks. Like, let me get some run. Let me get a little score. He's out for eight weeks like, let me get some run. Let me get a little run. Nope. Still interested in what's going to happen to LeBron in three years. He got mad at Rudy Gobert. Tried to set a pick on him. He's like, what the hell dude? I have an inch in hand. It's like, why are you out here?

You're playing basketball. We're not allowed to touch him. I loved it. loved it my favorite aspect of the the various angles of hijacking that wows detailed was that lebron's upset they didn't trade westbrook for wait for it wait westbrook and the first for john wall i'm like wait a second wait a second wait a second when was the last time I saw John Wall play basketball? Like, look at this unknown asset that is John Wall. It's like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

He's upset because they didn't trade Russell Westbrook for John Wall. If you're Russell Westbrook and you hear that report, how do you feel about your teammate for the rest of this season, LeBron James? Well, and you left out the part that LeBron James pushed for the Russell Westbrook trade. It's the lack of accountability that is amazing to me. Let's say I was finishing a basement in my house and my wife was like,

instead of the state-of-the-art theater you want to put down there and whatever else, I want to make the whole basement a wine cellar. And that's what I want to do. And we're doing that. And that's it. And I'm like, but we just spent all this money in the basement. No, no, we're going to do a wine cellar and it's going to cover the whole basement. And then we, so we spent two years building the wine cellar. And then she goes, we don't have enough money to buy the bottles for the wine cellar. I'm getting divorced unless you figure this out. And you're sitting there going, wait a second. You're the one who wanted to build the wine cellar. You used all of our resources to build the wine cellar.

Now I need more money for the bottles for the wine cellar? This is basically what he did with the Anthony Davis. Like they wanted Anthony Davis so badly. They're just throwing picks in. They paid, I would say 130 cents in the dollar. And after they won the title in 2020, it seemed like it made sense. but now it doesn't make sense. And now it's like all the stuff they gave up for him. And then the rest of the assets, they go on, on Westbrook. And that was my issue.

Where did you guys stand in the Westbrook trade when it actually happened? Did you like it? Be honest, Jacoby, there's video. Did you like it or you not like it? I liked it because I like drama. I like stars. And I was looking at the roster being like, listen, because remember, let's not be biased about this. Remember the Wizards' Russell Westbrook at the end of the season last year?

Right. That's good. He was playing really well. He was dragging that team to wins. And I'm thinking to myself, you know what? I like Malik Monk. That could kind of work.

And healthy Anthony Davis, LeBron James, and Russell Westbrook, they're not going to be number one seed in 10th through the regular season, but in the playoffs in a seven-game series, when it really drills down to ISOs and slowing the game down and overcoaching, that, to me, is a team that's going to win a seven-game series against every

other team in the West. That is how I felt before the season started. Do I feel that way now? Absolutely not. Now that I've seen it and I've experienced it, I actually held on to this until Thanksgiving, too. how I felt before the season started. Do I feel that way now? Absolutely not. I've seen it and I've experienced it. I actually held on to this until Thanksgiving too. I was like, oh yeah, when AD comes back, he'll be fine and they're going to work it out. I'm still there.

I'm way off the boat. I'm out. I'm out. LeBron is out. How are you not out? LeBron is out. Puncher's chance. Puncher's chance. That's all I'm saying. Puncher's chance. Puncher's chance. That's all I'm saying. Puncher's chance.

I just don't think if they get in the plan and the Lakers have to play the Suns, I don't think Monte Williams and his sons are like, yes, we've got the Lakers. I think they still have a puncher's chance. And in a weird way. I think that this, this is, this is a hot take. I got, I pulled this from the hot take lava chamber. I was like,

Anthony Davis, super durable. It's a hot take. Don't get me wrong. Injured often, but guess what? Always comes back. He always comes back.

I was like, you know what? He's going to come back and be awesome. And he comes back. I was like, you know what? He's going to come back and be awesome. And this is going to be like a ramp up. So I said, I don't, I puncher's chance. I still believe in the Lakers a little bit. A little bit. Wow. Wait, what happened when the Suns played the Lakers

last year? I forgot. Oh, so long ago. Anthony Davis was hurt. He got the injury out of the way. The injury's out of the way. I'm telling you. Puncher's chance. He's like Ben Stiller in There's Something About Mary. He rubs out the injury before the date

to try to just get it out of the way before it actually matters. So here's what I think the storyline should have been with LeBron at All-Star weekend. Now, I understand how they played it because they got five days out of attention, but I saw LeBron on Wednesday night against Utah. I brought my son and a bunch of his friends, and we went.

And the Lakers were on autopilot for three quarters, and then LeBron got super excited because Aaron Donald was there on the side that they were playing on. He was awesome. And he was just like, oh, I'm going to put on a show for Aaron Donald. He was fucking awesome. And the fact that he can Oh, I'm going to put on a show for Aaron Donald. He was fucking awesome.

And the fact that he can still do that at the age that he's at, it's like some Tom Brady shit. And, you know, to me that the, the better argument is how long can, or the better topic is how long can he still reach into the LeBron chamber and grab performances like that versus like,

where's he going next like first of all if I'm Cleveland I don't know do I want to pay LeBron max money when I have to pay Garland when I have to pay Mobley when I have this like really authentically built awesome team that plays together I'm going to bring LeBron and all of his superstar

baggage into this beautiful thing that we created at this point in his career when over and over again we've seen the old aging superstars, when they're the last ones to realize it, which he's going to hit that point at some point in his career. And if I'm the Cavs, I'm like, do I need this? Do I want this? So I'll give you a take. I'll steal a take from Nick Wright. Although since we're teammates on the show, I have proprietary rights over his takes when I go on another platform. Fair. No royalties, nothing.

It's just all my take now. He made a good point that what put the Suns over the edge? Young team, good, but needed that veteran leadership, a guy who is theoretically past his prime air quotes and Chris Paul, and he got them to the finals. I think like, like that Tom Brady leadership, um, for the bucks, like prior to the super bowl, he gave a speech. He was like general MacArthur in there. Like the bucks, when they talk about the speech that he gave prior to the super bowl, like it sends chills down your spine, That leadership of like, trust me guys, I know how to get to the finals.

All of a sudden, like, maybe the Cavs aren't just like a frisky young team. Maybe they are a championship contender. So that's a Nick Wright take. Now you can, you can strike through that. That is now my take. So I believe. Well, Jacoby, first of all Wilds is thinks he invented the I'm stealing my teammates take thing

Jalen Rose not only invented that he perfected it he does the thing where he gives you yeah he gives you credit for a couple weeks then just takes it and then uses it against you and you're like that's my take it's like he's trying to convince me of my own take

he's like you know what's going he's trying to convince me of my own take. He's like, you know what's going to work with Brian Flores? Brian Flores is going to be a great college coach. Imagine when he's in the living room and he's talking to African-American parents about they can stand up for us. I'm like, Jalen, you're trying to convince me about a thing that I literally said first. And then it's like, oh, yeah, you're right. You're right. Yeah.

I still take from him all the time And also I just want to say, what are we talking about? LeBron James going to Cleveland? He literally said he's going to stay in Los Angeles Play with his son And go to Cleveland all in the same weekend He's not going to go to Cleveland, he's not going to go back to Cleveland He's going to stay on the Lakers What are we talking about?

Well, you know what we could be talking about Get ready Kyle's not here, I'll tell him to turn the camera on It might be the best option for the Lakers to trade LeBron this summer. I'm telling you. Now we're what? Now we're what? Yes!

Now we're what? What are we doing? Trade LeBron James. No, no. If he's going to leave anyway, if you know he's going to leave. No, but if you think he's going to leave, would you rather trade him now and get something for him? If you feel like LeBron plus Anthony Davis is just never going to be enough with how the league's gotten better. Are you just better off trading him?

I don't think that's like a crazy question. I'm sure they're batting that around. Why? He's under contract for a year from now. They can trade him if they wanted to. Why? No, that's true. They can trade him if they want to.

They don't want to, and they're not going to. LeBron James is not going to be traded. This all comes from a deep-seated thing that you have against LeBron James. No, it doesn't. It permeates through everything you say in the microphone. No. I'm asking if you're running the Lakers, and you know you only have LeBron for one more year what do you do with that asset?

Do you just cross your fingers and hope you do well and then he leaves or do you try to get something for him? It's not like you have any real loyalty to him. He's only been there for three years Of the three tradable assets that you'll get a serious return from to remake your roster, Russell Westbrook, Anthony Davis and LeBron James. Westbrook's out

In that order, he's expiring next year. You can trade him to someone who just wants to get him off the books or whatever clear space for next year. To who? You're getting somebody else's problem. You're getting Tobias Harris back. Listen, I've seen Russell Westbrook on this Lakers roster. I believed in it.

I really did. Around Halloween, I was all in. I was like, this is not just our Western Conference champion. This is our NBA champion. And here we are three months later. I'm like, this is not just our Western Conference champion. This is our NBA champion. And here we are three months later, and I'm like, this is not going to work. It's never going to work. I'd rather have Tobias Harris. A one-for-one Tobias Harris from Russell Westbrook looks pretty good for the Lakers right now.

Yeah, but is that going to make... Wow, that doesn't give them the title next year. You're trading LeBron. Tobias Harris. No, no, no. Let's get back to the original point. They're not going to trade LeBron James. They would never trade LeBron James. It's not going to happen. I'm putting that at 0% chance. I would not put that at 0%,

especially because who is going to be loyal to him out of the inner circle? Palenka, who they've already tried to undermine this weekend. The Buss family, what do they care? Like, who else? Magic's going to protect them? I don't know. Wow. Am I wrong to think the Lakers aren't necessarily going to be like, Oh,

we've got to do right by LeBron. This isn't like Kobe 2014, where it's like, this guy's been here for two decades. This is our guy. He's going to be here till the bitter end. I don't think they feel that way. If LeBron wanted to go,

I think he would go, but I don't see the Lakers moving on from LeBron. And then what you're going to build, like the Lakers need to be relevant. When the Lakers aren't relevant, all of basketball just kind of deflates. Okay, but they just traded a hundred prospects

and draft picks for Anthony Davis. He doesn't make you relevant? He's supposed to be like one of the best eight guys in the league. I just don't think you trade LeBron. That would be like releasing, letting Tom Brady walk. Who would ever do that? I just wouldn't do it. I just wouldn't. I think it would be a bad decision. What if they lost in the play-in tournament? What if they're the nine seed and they just lose and they're not even in the playoffs? By the way, Jacoby's laughing, but this is a really realistic scenario. Right now they're

the nine seed. I'm laughing at you, Bill, because this is like a perfect storm topic for you. It's like Lakers falling apart. LeBron James doing things that you can criticize. It's just like this is like the intersection of all the circles of things they're interested in. We're not going to move on from this topic for the next 45 minutes. LeBron's gotten traded. LeBron ruined all-star weekend. He didn't ruin it.

He hijacked it. He made it awesome. Yeah. Bill, what are we talking about here? All right. I'm going to, I'll flip this around then Jacoby.

So we're just not allowed to criticize LeBron James ever. We just have to preach and bow to his altar. I'm just asking, are we, are we allowed to be critical? Are we allowed to be critical of athletes anymore and their choices? Yes, we are. He forced the Lakers to trade everything they had for

two guys that now have made them along with LeBron and 9C. We're not allowed to criticize him for that because I do think that they do not make those trades unless he wants them to do it. That's... Absolutely. I 100% feel that way that that's a fact yes

and I believe that the Anthony Davis trade was great they're up $1,000 at the blackjack table and then they won a title yeah it's just like we won a title this is it you know what I'll put my winnings up again

and they ended up back at square one like the Anthony Davis trade played. It worked. Not only did they win the championship, don't forget how good Anthony Davis was in those playoffs and those finals. I thought they were going to win another championship as a duo for sure. Now I am not as sure. Now, Wilds, we're in the

section of the LeBron Anthony Davis part of this where everyone had an awesome time at dinner for four hours, ordered a couple extra shots, got the extra veal chop, even though everybody already had the entree, just kept bringing the waiter back to order more stuff. And then the check came and everybody's now looking at the check going, oh shit, $2,300. Jesus, wait a second. How are we going to split this up?

Oh, I brought $100. Can I use my credit card? Now everyone's arguing about how to split the checkup. Are we there yet? Is this what has happened to the Lakers? So here's the quick... I think the basic question that you're trying to ask is

is this Lakers' run of success over? And if it is, is that okay? So the Lakers and the Celtics, Bill, to bring it to Jacoby's point, are like the two premier franchises in the league. The Celtics last won a championship in 2008. The Lakers just won, and it feels like there's so much pressure. Like, we need to win.

The Lakers need to win. The Lakers need to be relevant. What are they doing this year to try to get to the finals? Meanwhile, on the other coast, it's been over a decade of just like, hold on. Don't worry. Things are coming together. So I think we got to meet in the middle. The Celtics need a little more middle the celtics need a little

more more urgency the lakers need a little more patience like it doesn't have to be this year for me if i was lebron james i would i've said this i wouldn't shut it down if i was lebron james because i think it's the the optics are bad but i would twist that phrase i would prioritize my long-term health and the success of the Lakers organization moving forward, a.k.a. I'd shut it down. I would say, hey, if we're not winning a championship, what value is it for me to dive on the floor and put more minutes, log up more minutes for no point? And granted, I say they have a puncher's chance, but I would consider shutting it down if I was LeBron. And by that, I mean, prioritizing itself.

I'm going to zag on that take in one second. We're going to take a break. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for November.

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Terms and conditions apply. Visit amex.ca slash business platinum. All right, coming back. Wild said LeBron should consider shutting it down. Prioritizing his health. So, I actually disagree. I think the West

is weak. Oh. And I would not shut it down yet. I love this. Oh, you've been Puncher's Chance guy. I'm in on the puncher's chance theory i really am also like wilds you made you i saw your clip you tweeted today from the show where you're talking about the difference between jordan and lebron like how vast it actually is do you want just give that quickly give the retake okay so everybody basically the take is this Jordan's one LeBron is two. Some people argue

LeBron is one Jordan is two, or it's close because LeBron went to so many finals. My take is this. If you had a guy, just a normal player who had nine scoring championships and scoring titles, one defensive player of the year two-time champion and two-time finals mvp is that anonymous player a hall of famer and i think everyone's like wow nine scoring titles two championships two finals mvps yeah and a defensive player of the year like wow that is one not only is that person a hall Famer, that's one of the best players in the history of the game. That player is the gap between LeBron and Jordan. So you can say that it's close and maybe one guy is one, one guy is two.

But the gap between one and two is a Hall of Fame player and not only a Hall of Fame player, a great player's entire career accolades. That is the gap. So that's the take. That's why I think Jordan's one. Really good take. And my add to this from a LeBron standpoint will be, I think he needs more titles. I don't think he could just throw away seasons. I don't think, first of all, shutting it down, they don't have their pick anyway.

It's not going to help them. So it's not like you're able to flip that pick. Now you can say you don't put the wear and tear on LeBron, but at this point, he's got the car that has 220,000 miles on it. Jacoby, I think the shut it down era of LeBron, he did in 2019, and he was hurt, but he also wasn't fighting to come back because that

was a young team. They had no chance this year. Who knows? Chris Paul is going to miss eight weeks. You know, who knows? Could Phoenix drop back to the pack? Could golden state pass Phoenix for the one seat, even though there's six games back after Memphis.

I don't like any of the other teams. I think they're all flawed. You go Dallas, you go Denver, you go Utah, anybody else? I wouldn't want to see LeBron and Davis. I don't even I think they're all flawed. You go Dallas, you go Denver, you go Utah, anybody else. I wouldn't want to see LeBron and Davis. I don't even care who they're playing with. Just those two guys and three role players. Who knows? This is delicious.

This is delicious, and let me tell you why. Let's just go down this hypothetical highway, which is not that far from the real world. Chris Paul's out for eight weeks. Comes back literally one game, game 82, and then he's not himself. He hurts. He bangs into somebody, hurts that thumb a little bit. Draymond Green's

got a back issue, which I don't have too much information on. I guess he's playing basketball. We don't know if he's going to be back. But guess what? When your back hurts, your back can hurt again. So then you're basically taking out the one and two teams. Is there any other team in the Western Conference you would pick over the Lakers with a healthy AD, LeBron Westbrook, Monk? Any other team in the Western Conference? Because I over the Lakers with a healthy AD LeBron Westbrook monk.

Any other team in the Western Conference because I'm taking Draymond out and Chris Paul out because that could very realistically happen. Now I'm back in the Kevin Wilds puncher's chance camp. I'm in the puncher's chance camp from what I saw on Wednesday night because especially the playoffs when it slows down

and you're at a one point game five minutes left. I still want LeBron. And Jacoby said some very mean stuff about me earlier about how I'm biased against LeBron. I'm not. I try to be a critical thinker. I'm sorry. I still feel like if it's

a seven-game series and LeBron is on one side and there are close games and I'm watching that game and he's going against John Moran, as great as John Moran is, I'm still going to feel like LeBron is going to win unless he, unless John Moran proves me wrong. We just have such a reservoir of LeBron moments at this point.

And you can feel it in the crowd. Like I felt it Wednesday night when he gets going, like he does have a stranglehold over the game. There's this aura about him now. It's a little, wow, it's not to throw you some chum, but it's a little Brady-esque. It's a little like Brady going against these dudes that grew up watching Brady and there becomes this kind of kid adult thing that starts happening where people are watching this going, holy shit, I was watching this guy do this 15 years ago. Now I'm on the court with him as he's doing it. You know what I mean? So yeah. The other thing that Nick says that, which is now

one of my takes is like the history of LeBron's feel out game, game one, and just shows that he's operating on a different level, I think, where it's like everybody else like, oh, let's go, let's try to win. Like, let me just feel this one out. I'm not going to give it away, but it's more of just, you know, it's like first dance at a wedding. Like, ah, I'm not going to go out. And he's not giving away a playoff game,

but he's looking at the playoffs in totality on what it takes to make it to the finals, where I think the other strategy is to look at each game individually and just feel like it's a little chess checkers with him. Also, Jacobes, the Lakers, as much as I hate them and their fans, just as a Celtics fan, it's a good atmosphere. If it's a playoff series and you're down 3-2

and you're going there game six and they're all going nuts and LeBron hits a couple of those step-back threes, you're going there game six and they're all going nuts. And LeBron hits a couple of those step back threes. Like you're going to fucking feel it. If you're, you're a young team, whether you're Memphis or you're Denver and you got guys like Monty Morris out there, people like that,

you're Utah. And you have like this obvious disadvantage with go bear who you can't really figure out how to play. If you're playing the Lakers, once they go small, whoever it is, you are going to feel it. That's why I personally don't think they should shut it down.

This trade got floated around. I forget whose idea it was. I apologize. I can't remember who suggested it on Twitter. But if they had done not just a wall trade, but Eric Gordon was in it, and then I think it's worth giving up the 2027 number

one. I think that pick is really scary to give up. You don't know who's on that team five years from now, especially to save some under 500 season. You're just throwing away more number one picks. I personally wouldn't have done it. Wait, are you suggesting that a team

in Los Angeles just kind of go all in and bring in stars to make a run at a championship, which is the most coveted thing in sport, you're saying that maybe they should be a little bit more cautious about that with the Los Angeles franchise. I'm saying

I was here... You were here for a part of it, Jacobus, during the dark years, those last four Kobe years? Oh, the... The Kobe Achilles injury year and the Tarek Black year. Listen, it happens to everybody, but there's nothing sadder than a starless Lakers franchise. It's the one team that there should be a rule that they write in and say,

hey, there needs to be stars. Speaking of stars, look at that transition. So Aaron Rodgers last night just starts doing this long Instagram post. It seemed like a classic, look at me. Nobody's been talking about me for a while. Not a lot of sports going on right now. Look at me. Did an Instagram post.

What does this mean? Hey, look at me. Which we've seen with celebrities in the 80s and 90s where if nobody's talked about them in a while Tom Cruise will suddenly get in a Starbucks with Penelope Cruz you know 2004 ranch is like whoa Tom Cruise

what's he up to hey he's having a latte with Penelope Cruz what are they doing so last night was the look at me stuff I guess he was on Pat McAfee's show today we'll find out if there are any highlights what are they doing? So last night was the look at me stuff. He's I, I guess he was on Pat McAfee show today. We'll find out if there are any highlights,

but Wilds next, the question of, do we care? Do we care about Aaron Rogers at this point? I know we care, but do we, do we really care where he ends up? Oh yeah.

Look, if he ends up on the Broncos, I think the Broncos can make it to the Super Bowl. I don't think he's actually doing that. I think he's going to stay with the Packers. I think if you're going to move, you move, just like Brady. Once Brady threw that pick six against the Titans, we kind of knew Brady was gone, just from that original postgame presser.

What I like is, Jacoby, I'll throw it to you. I like that Aaron Rodgers' career is based on precision. Doesn't throw interceptions, very accurate passer. But his public persona and his public messaging is based on just mass confusion. And it seems like that's what he's going for. So I thought it was like, well, in, Wilds, maybe it's a you thing. Maybe it's because it's in the media and you want everything clarity. So I went through some comments, Jacoby.

This is how it went. Lambo Leapers, love you 12 with two hearts. That's nice. Lambo Leapers, love him with two hearts. Truly Debonair says, what are you trying to say? And then Solo Wit says, you're staying in Green Bay, right? And then FYBX says, did he just break up with us? And then finally, Broncos says, welcome to Denver.

So the idea that this guy can put out one message and have people love him, what's going on? Did we just break up? And welcome to the Broncos is's just as a media person i just love it i love the car after kobe i love the content i love the drama one thing i love is he always gives himself plausible deniability there's always a little trap story if you ask if you ask aaron rogers like what was that engineering post like you know what i woke up on a monday i wanted to be grateful for the people in my life i wanted to express that in

a public forum so i don't know what this is all about, me leaving the Packers or me retiring or me breaking up with my ex-fiancee, fiancee thing. It's nothing to do with that. You know what, there's love inside my heart. I just wanted to share that. I don't understand what all this conversation is about. He was just being grateful on a Monday

and he put up an inspirational poster just to sort of like make sure that he had that trap door as well. It's a chef kiss media manipulation right there. Because he gives himself the logical trapdoor of just being like, oh, you guys weren't grateful for the people that you love on a Monday?

Weird. That's what I was doing. I don't know what you were doing. Here's the key point. Jacoby, if you did an Instagram post like that last night, whatever your version of that Aaron Rogers Instagram post, I would have called you this morning to see if you were okay. I would have gotten a million texts. Are

you okay? My whole text would be like, are you okay? Are you getting divorced? What happened? Please call me right now. Someone would knock on my door. They would knock on the door. You guys are just are nice.

Yes. I've built that up over years. Insane behavior. I've earned that reputation of not being nice. I've earned that reputation of not being nice. I wouldn't mind a gratitude post from you, Jacoby. I don't know if you would have made it. I don't know if you would have made it.

That would have hurt you. That would have hurt you. That would have hurt you. That would have hurt you more than made you feel good. Aaron Rodgers is like, it's February 21st, late on a Monday night. It's time for me to pass along gratitude

to all these random people. That is bizarre. It's bizarre behavior. It really is. It's not tied to anything. There's no moment. No NBA games. No NBA games on. Well, that's the thing. Wilds, I think we have to remember this for next year. This range from NBA All-Star weekend,

now that it's been extended, from the moment All-Star game ends to that Wednesday is look at me land. It's time. Because there's nothing going on. It's just you can grab, look at me, whatever. Whatever agenda you want. That's the perfect time to do it.

I watched the first hour of First Take today as I was doing emails, and all they talked about was LeBron and Aaron Rodgers. That's all I talked about. That was it. It was like, what else? That's perfect. It was like, thank you.

Thank you for this content that dropped out of the sky. Next year, there's going to be, I think, more people in Look At Me land really trying to fight for eyeballs and earlobes, right? There could be like seven, eight. Tom Brady's probably like, fuck. Yeah, I know. He's talking to his guy and he's like, hey, man.

Where am I? I love earlobes. Eyeballs and earlobes. Let's go drums. Let's go drums. Can I have ear drums? Or ear drums. Next time you drop that, let's go earlobes. Let's go drums. Ear drums? Next time you drop that, let's go earlobes. Just piercers. Just looking for earlobes.

Wow, who else should have been in Look at Me Land this week? I'm wondering who's kicking themselves right now. I guess Zion could have kind of missed it. I mean, Zion, that whole situation is lingering, but this would have been a perfect Zion time. I know, but you're making it sound,

you're making it sound negative and like attention grabbing. I am, I am going all in on Ben Simmons support. So I thought it actually would have been a good opportunity to just like have a, have a release of like Ben being awesome with the nets. And that could have been like, Ooh,

start to like, you know, wet the appetite for like ben simmons is going to be awesome when he comes back i think there's still a lot of question marks it's still fuzzy and i'm just rooting i'm just pulling for ben and rooting for ben but if anybody there's a there's a dead period here of content wise if the nets just released or ben just released an awesome video i would have been I would have just devoured it. KD rebounding for Ben shooting 17-foot jump shots would have been the biggest thing in sports. That would have been the biggest thing in sports.

The biggest thing in sports. If KD just under the hoop rebounding for three straight makes from 17 feet from Ben Simmons, it would have changed the biggest odds of the match. Yeah, loved it. Tiger Woods would have been a good one for Look at Me. Look at Me Land. Like the grueling recovery.

Don't rule me out for the Masters yet. Like just kind of putting that out at 930 on a Monday morning. Yeah. Or just any Tom Brady throw. Just any Tom Brady at the beach. Just throwing a football. Tom Brady with a football in his hand would have won the day. Sean Payton with a cowboy's hat on. How about Sean Payton just

in Dallas? Sean Payton in a grocery store. Yeah, good point. I was thinking Dallas Cowboys. An actual cowboy hat going to shop for groceries. That would change the world. Sean Payton's like,

today I'm at the JFK assassination site. I just thought it was finally time for me to see this. Why is he in Dallas? That's weird. What's going on? I think a Floyd Mayweather possible comeback would have been good too. Just floating that one out. Who knows? I'm thinking McConnell, McGregor.

Put that out. So to put a bow on the Rogers thing, he said in the McAfee interview, there is no decision made on his future. We're still going to talk about it for 15 minutes tomorrow. You at least got one segment out of it. Next, do we care?

Do you guys care about Kanye anymore? No. When there's a Kanye story do you care? I don't even know what this thing is this many people bought his stem player I'm like wait is he teaching stem classes to second graders? what even is a stem player?

I do not care whatsoever about Kanye and it's to the point where it was fun to watch the train wreck like a couple years ago now it's not fun anymore I'm completely out I made myself listen to that stupid album that he came out with and it was like it was like it was like drinking fish oil like i guess i have to do this so i'm gonna drink it but it was not in in fun whatsoever like me and my wife made ourselves listen to that thing on a car ride and it was not fun i care when the music's good i do not care anymore about kanye

whatsoever don't care i am in the same spot i care when the music's good. I do not care anymore about Kanye whatsoever. Don't care. I am in the same spot. I care when the music is good. Kyle Wilds, do you care? Kyle. Kyle Wilds. All right. Here's why I care. I'll say I don't care. Did I look to see if Donda 2 was on standard streaming platforms? Yes. Do I know what the stem player is and did i look it up on youtube and it's like a little hockey puck type thing where you can remix the music yes when i paid 200 for no have i seen the netflix documentary yes so i view him as a sympathetic figure with some you know uh challenges that i'd like to see him solve, but I do care. I have a little bit of emotional investment in Kali.

I have the emotional investment because he was a big artist with my family and we spent a lot of time listening to him and I don't want this to tailspin out, which is always the threat, but that's been the threat, what, since 2016? It seems like we've always been teetering on some sort of whatever, and then the next year happens.

So I don't know. I still deep down care, but I pretend I don't care. I care. I think that's where... Jacoby, do you care about TikTok? I mean, I'm sure your kids are on it, right? No, they're a little young for TikTok, but it's interesting. It's like one of those things, it's kind of like MFTs and and and crypto and you're just like this is something that's happening

it's going to be important it's getting more important every single day but for some reason i'm not focused on it whatsoever and it's like it's one of those things it's really a sign of my age more than anything else where i'm like i'm too old for nfts like i i why don't i just google nfts and learn about the blockchain and decentralized economy? It probably would take me about 30 years to get somewhat educated about this stuff, but I haven't taken the time.

So my brain wants to care. My body and my soul wants to care, but my actions speak louder than my words. So my actions don't care, but I want to care. Wow. So I'm riding a care, but I want to care. Wow. So I'm riding a high because I was never in on 3D movie glasses

and I was never in on VR. I just was like, nope, don't see it. So now with the NFTs, I'm like, nope, don't see it. And now I'm on a win streak right now. I just feel, I have a lot of confidence right now.

Like, I don't see it. Bitcoin, Bitcoin you can talk me into, but the NFTs I don't get. I was on, I had a meeting when I worked in Bristol and the team from Google glass came. Google glass.

Oh yeah. Another one I was out on. Like here are the glasses. I was like, man, and they came all the way from Google, these two guys. And I'm like, I don't know. i'm trying to be optimistic i just don't see me wearing these glasses so i don't know i think it's just better to be in on everything so you just have go ahead jacoby you have google i'm going the other way like you had a good read on glasses i actually wrote a pitch for the first studio show shot in

3d remember like the 3d tv was coming out and i was like yeah this is gonna be huge this is the future of television let's be early adapters on this let's make the first sports studio show shot in 3d we'll be early we'll be first to the market listen i'm the young hip guy at the network you have to follow me let's go and like honestly no one ever bought a 3d tv it was only a thing for like six months in the marketplace i think there's one in the cafeteria in bristol it's the only one i've ever seen it was such a bad read so that's the opposite of your google glass story is i completely misread that one and like wrote a whole pitch for a video show in 3d like all the things that show

in 3d people sitting behind a desk is probably not going to completely capture the power of the mechanism. I will buy a basketball game in 3D. I'm still waiting for that. Oculus in 3D, I'll buy that. I'm completely out of the metaverse, in case you guys are wondering. Of course. Don't even bring that to my house.

All right, we're going to take a break. When we come back, Wilds is going to throw some half-baked ideas at us. Ooh. All right, Kevin Wilds, author of Half-Baked Ideas. He's going to throw a few at Jacoby and I. Okay. So, Bill, I'm going to... You said you didn't want to talk about this, and I don't care. I'm going to talk about it anyways. It's a direct disobedience on your podcast, and i don't care i'm going to talk about it anyways it's a direct disobedience on your podcast but i don't care is it jacoby accusing me of being biased against

lebron which i thought was really unfair and kind of hurtful it is a tweet it was meant to be unfair and hurtful of you saying let's never talk about the dunk contest again i i'm going i am going to talk about it and i think i have a moderately simple fix so first of all jacoby and i we spent we've talked about the dunk contest a lot first of all everyone needs to lower their expectations of the dunk contest what people want to see in the dunk contest or something they've never seen before live and i want to see immense creativity in about two seconds while you're flying through the air it would be an added caveat of you you're not really allowed

to practice in fact if it got out that like obi toppen was practicing his dunk contest he'd be ripped for it so that so everyone just take the expectations from here and bring them way down. Okay. So here's the answer. Dunking with the stars. Dunking with the stars. It's not just one dunk. It is about a 90 second routine set to music where you are paired with somebody, mostly behind the scenes to help you choreograph your dunks work on the music work on the whole production come up with a theme and execute a full routine i have some routines here oh automotive theme like like griffin you dunk over a kia maybe you come out in a car and then maybe you dunk over the Pistons coach.

Like, oh, look at that automotive theme. Oh, superhero theme. You put on a cape and then you know that robot that shoots free throws that no one likes or those Boston Dynamic dogs. Maybe you jump over that thing like, ah, humans over robots. We win. It's thematic and so you're judging an entire routine just like gymnastics routines a floor routine in gymnastics or figure skating it's

not just one so instead of one dunk having a theme it has to be a 90 second series of dunks with one overall theme yes that would that would work. That would work. That's the idea. I just like the idea of being like, Obi Toppin, this is Lin-Manuel. He'll be choreographing your dunk concept this year. It's going to be a historical remake of the Battle of 1912. Here's the thing. Obi Toppin's dunks on Instagram are good dunks.

There's three cool dunks. It's just the process of getting there was a little bit arduous. But in the Instagram dunk world of Obi Toppin, those were actually good dunks. So get rid of the dunk contest. Get rid of the one-off dunk contest. Replace it with a routine, and then the dunk contest will be saved. I like it. I go back to the first one in 1976, which if you watched it, it had a real flow to it because they did four dunks in a minute and a half, something like that, that they had in their

heads. And it just kind of flowed a certain way, but they never tried dunks that were like too impossible. I think that's where the dunk contest has gone sideways. Once we allowed people to just keep trying these crazy dunks until they got it. I don't know about you guys, but I, I just don't think it's fun to see somebody land the dunk on the seventh try. It's as a viewer, it sucks. I don't care if you finally did it. I just watched you miss it six times or I don't like it Here's here's where Kevin got me I don't like this idea, but I like this aspect of it is it's like figure skating Like I'm no one watching Olympics this year like it barely happened But the in the old days we cared about figure skating was like you knew there was gonna be like three triple jumps

There's always some elements in between there a little bit easier. So it's kind of like oh, this is where he does a regular jump But I know there's gonna be like three tough ones So like, you know, like when they spin around in circles, they never mess that up, right? But when they when they do a little like Swan thing, they never mess that up But you know, there's me three triple jumps and this last one can be really hard and we all know it's coming So to have that sort of build the momentum like they'll be like 12 dunks But we know there's gonna be three big ones in the routine and it's all Scored by the Boston Orchestra and then manuel about the lyrics yeah well and at the end no one's like oh that stunk i didn't see any something i had never seen in my entire

life after watching all of the dunk contest and and every dunker on youtube i want to see something brand new and fresh from every single person. The expectations are too high. The routine brings them down normal and it opens up the aperture for creativity. I'm really passionate about this. Can I give you like a one-fourth baked idea? Because I did think about this the other night. What if they just got rid of the dunk contest for one year and they had a layup contest? You know what?

I love this. That guy T-Jazz, he brought layups back. He does all sorts of stuff. Good layups. There's a lot of ways to be creative scoring a basketball without touching the rim. I wonder, to me,

is it a cross between horse and a layup contest where you have to do a layup, you can't touch the rim, but you have to figure out crazy spins. You can't touch the rim, but you have to figure out like crazy spins or whatever. And then the other person then has to match it. And it's like, basically you're playing pig or something like that.

I, I, I, my, my whole thing, and this is, they tried the horse thing and they couldn't get it to work. But then if you watch like super 70 sports on Twitter,

they'll run like old Pete Maravich. I don't know what's not live. Right. But I'm saying like the Pete Maravich horse highlights. I don't know what's not live. Right. But I'm saying the Pete Maravich one, the way they did the horse back then, it actually kind of worked. It had a flow to it. And there's something there with guys trying to match shots against other guys because that's the goal for them. And I've been saying this since the mid-2000s. The goal is to get the best, most famous people in the events.

And you have this dunk contest. You had all the people were not famous. You know, Jalen Green was the most famous person. He's like the rookie guard on a shitty Rockets team. But if Ja was in there, I would have cared more. You know, and that's what they've lost. We're nostalgic for the 80s and 90s and early 2000s because it's guys we heard of in the contest.

It's Michael versus Dominique. Once they lost that, it goes sideways. What's your next one, Wilds? This is a Tom Brady one. Tell me if you buy this. I was going to go off the board. I'm like, you know what? I'm just going to go right for the red meat of Tom

Brady's non-retirement. Do you buy this theory? The half-baked idea slash quarter-baked theory. And it's this. I don't believe that Tom Brady's actually retired because my mom retired and we had a nice luncheon for her and she got a plaque and we gave her flowers and she gave a speech and she's a first grade teacher and that was a ceremony my mom's wasn't tom brady and but if my mom wouldn't have sent out an instagram say hey thanks everybody and not thank phil belichick i'm out of here

that's not what would have happened so i don't believe that tom brady is retired he never said the word retired he knows that joe montana retired of 25,000 people. He's not retiring on Instagram. So that's theory. So here's the half-baked idea. Do you think, Bill, that the goatness of Tom Brady and the narrative around Tom Brady being the GOAT has actually tamped down some of that competitive fire. Where the problem with silencing your critics is that, yeah, then you don't have any more critics to silence. You have no critics left. He has no critics left. He's 199th pick.

That was what he named his production company after. Oh, Deflategate. Oh, he got fired up oh jim you drafted jimmy g watch me be great oh you think i'm too old edelman yelling at him oh i'll prove it to everybody win the super bowl bill valchek you're out on me i'm out on you i'm gonna win the championship with the bucks after he did that everyone just started calling him the goat. Odell is giving him goat cleats. A guy on the Jets asked for his autograph after the game. So I'm thinking, you know, like, I'm on Tom Brady.

Like, oh, looks like I am the goat. I'm at the top of the mountain. There's nowhere else for me to climb. So the half-baked idea is just to introduce a little LeBron-ness to it, where LeBron, people started saying LeBron was washed. Actually, no one said it, but LeBron just started saying, oh, everyone thinks I'm washed. You think I'm the washed king? I think we have to start with

the washed goat. You, as a leading voice in media, say, ah, Brady's washed. He better stay retired because he couldn't come back. He's washed as it is. That will get him back. He has to make that statement while Bill Simmons is on a farm washing a goat.

Oh, that's not bad. It's very literal, but we'll take it. I think this is... I like where you're going with this, Wilds. I think the way to get him to play and be motivated is to say, well, he's done it all, but you know what he never did? Win a Super Bowl for his hometown team.

Until he does that, he's not the goat. That's great. He has to go back to the Niners. LeBron won for his hometown team. He went home. He got them a title. What have you done, Tom Brady? That's pretty good. When was the last Niner Super Bowl?

It was like 1994? I think so, yeah. What have you done lately, Tom Brady? He's not the GOAT. What have you done lately, Tom Brady? He's about to go. What you just laid out, though, Jacobs, I always felt this was one of the best advantages for LeBron. There was always, I've talked about this before, there was always the carrot being held in front of him,

this next goal that he had to get, right? Every time he had to get over the Celtics, he had to win one in Miami, he had to go back to Cleveland and win. Oh, Jordan's better than me. He was always chasing the Jordan thing. Then it was the Steph. Everybody loves Steph.

It was like, oh, you guys love Steph? Watch this. And it was always like something. Brady Wilds is right. Brady, what's left? Everybody agrees he's the GOAT. He just put out a nine-part infomercial about himself that I enjoyed, FYI. But what's left for the man?

I'm going to tell you one thing about LeBron, and then I also have a big idea I'll pitch quickly. During the All-Star game, we all watched very closely, and LeBron was trying to go over MVP, but he just wasn't hitting from three. You can tell he wanted to be MVP, could not hit from three, had wide-open shots, shimmying the shoulder, still missing

the shot, and then Steph gets hot and you notice there's a point in the game where LeBron was like I just lost MVP and if there is a true rival to LeBron James yeah currently in the league it is Steph Curry and there's a part of LeBron if you listen to Bill Simmons there's a part of LeBron who gets with his inner circle and has a whole pitch meeting with a PowerPoint about how they're going to hijack all-star weekend. The MVP was going to be the crowning achievement and he lost it in the third quarter. But then when they need one basket, we all saw the possession. It was great. LeBron James, he mid posts and he's got his hand in the air and he's like, I need the ball. He was not going to let Steph Curry get that last shot. And if you watch Joel Embiid comes across the leg,

he's not even like the nearest defender. Joel Embiid sniffed this out because he was playing defense. He was like on the complete weak side, runs 20 feet over to contest the shot, and LeBron hits it. So I will say that LeBron still is chasing something. Steph missed a couple that led to that last shot. Well, they were doubling him. They were doubling him at that point because they were playing defense.

So I would say that if there is a carrot in front of LeBron, it is kind of this Steph thing. And if the Warriors were to pull it together and get Draymond back and whatever, make a real run, I think that LeBron would be re-motivated. Can I then pitch my very brief? By the way, Brooklyn was going to be the carrot, but that thing imploded in 11 months. But the whole Brooklyn super team, I think,

would have been a good LeBron carrot. Now, LeBron could say already won the title, but he's got four. He's one beyond Kobe. I think the Kobe thing's another carrot. Kobe's got five, I have four. MJ has six. I need two more to catch him.

So he's still got the scoring title. Wilds is right. Brady's has everything. What's left? I think he has every record too, right? Yeah, he's got no critics. Someone has to say he's washed. Wilds, I thought you were going, Tom Brady hires

Tom Brady critics because you can't find critics. It's like he outsources to ZipRecruiter. That's a great idea. i was like edelman yeah i was like you're too like look you're my friend but can you please kind of like get me like you're too old like thank you now let's go and rock like he gets skip bayless he just starts paying skip bayless a million dollars a year to just start ripping him loves don brady though yeah just no switch flip it all right what we would you have jacobs

um it's covid related but we know it's misinformation i know it's important to Tom Brady though. No, switch. Flip it. Alright, what did you have, Jacobus? It's COVID related, but we know it's misinformation. I know that's important to the Spotify company. I want to sort of like we're in this weird zone where it's like, do I wear a mask? Do I not? My building said you don't have to wear a mask. We're in this weird place where we're not sure what we

should do if we're comfortable with masks or no masks or how many people in the elevator or whatever. So I've created a simple system. It is three circular pins about the size of a silver dollar one is green one is yellow and one is red oh and it's like it signifies the rest of the world this is how my risk tolerance is i'm a green i've been vaccinated boosted and i had it right so i'm a green if you want to get in the elevator with me, go ahead. If I'm in the Uber, you can take your mask off. You know what I mean?

But some people might have a health-challenged person at home or a partner, so they need to be more careful. So they're a red. So if I see them in the elevator, I won't get in the elevator with them. If I see my Uber driver or my taxi driver wearing a red, then I will keep my mask on and open the windows. I just think it would be a way to simplify the way that we all interact during this difficult time. And I just don't have a catchy name for it. That's why it's half-baked. Wilds?

I think that had been kicked around as an idea. I don't have any solid take on that. You're scared of the COVID conversation. I've seen scared wilds. Scared wilds is if I join the Zoom. I'm not going into racial politics. What are we talking about?

Come on, wilds. I like the green. By the way, I'm done with that. I'm green. I'm green. It's like phoenix chow. It's like I'm just, I'm down with that. I'm green. You just gave me Uber like I'm green. Yeah, exactly. It's like pho with a chow. It's like, I'm coming in the elevator, you want to take a bath?

Whatever you want to do. You want to hug me? Go ahead, give me a hug. I'm green. I'm having a green party on Friday night. All the greens are coming. This cocktail is delicious. Do you want a sip?

They have to be green. I wouldn't offer two unless they were green. I like it, Wiles. Wiles, do you have any more half-bakes? Well, I have the target score. What's wrong with you? I think that we should have target score all the time. I think the All-Star Game proved that the ELOM ending and the target score ending 100% works,

and I don't know what the holdup is. I think we're at a pivotal time here, much like the Velcro industry was, where Velcro came out and everyone's like, good news. We're obviously better than shoelaces. It's just a matter of time before we get adopted by everyone. And then there was a little bit of momentum and then it just kind of fell away. Target score is obviously better. The game is faster. The game always ends on a quote-unquote buzzer beater. But everyone's like, yeah, let's kick that down the road. Why?

Why don't we just do target score right away? Is there any reason that target score is not being implemented when the games resume? I don't like it. What? Why? I like it for the All-Star

game. This is Bill the History Buff guy. Terrible numbers have to be the same. We have to be able to compare numbers from 1972. We say three-shot clock error for a reason. We say then the three-point line was invented for a reason. The target score is better. It would create a better product to watch. Isn't that what you want to have?

More fun watching the games? That's what I want. Bill Simmons wants more fun pouring through old stats comparing decade to decade. I't that what you want to have? More fun watching the games? That's what I want. Bill Simmons wants more fun pouring through old stats comparing decade to decade. I still have more fun watching basketball. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, guy. I just think they need to figure out

if they can figure out the timeouts at the end of the game, this is all easier. One of the reasons we like the target ending is because we don't have like a million timeouts in the strategy and stuff. They just play to the thing. There's a flow to it. Real NBA games don't have a flow because there's a timeout commercial every

five seconds. That's the problem. But fouling to stop the clock, you would be upset if that went away. I like seeing guys have to make the free throws. Oh, gosh. What if we had a combo of odd games are the old way, and then the even games are the Elam ending?

That is fair. In a series. You want to go through a scientific experiment of which games you'd be more enjoyable to watch. Game one, normal. Game two, target score. It would be great. We just say we sample each.

I'm not against it home team decides home team decides oh home team decides what the ending is here's the other thing it's why like oh i'm a traditionalist i'm going to claim jacoby you can back me up on this 99 of basketball is played with a target ending it's just basketball with referees is played with, you know, time, but in all the basketball games around the world where people are bouncing a ball, it's, Hey, let's play to 11. Let's play to 17. Let's play to 21 target ending is the true ending to basketball and how a basketball is played. So if you're a traditionalist, you want, you played not you, Bill, you played 98% of your games you've ever played about a target ending.

Jacoby, same with you. Five minutes. Pick up this game to 11, I guess is 11 would be the target ending of the game. Yes. It's target. A target score is true basketball. One of my favorite things to do with youtube human beings is play pick a basketball so i have a very simple question i'm gonna take a basketball ones and twos or twos and threes goldsberry actually went through this on maybe the grant lane article i'm a strong twos and threes person no nobody no you're not yeah i am i thought when

i made my comeback which was very jacoby driven from 11 to 13, I was stunned that people would take threes in a game where every basket was worth one. I didn't understand it because a 17 foot shot is just easier than a 24 foot shot. And over and over again, we play with these kids and they're jacking up these 25 footers. And I'm like, I'm just going to make 17 footers.

They're worth the same as that 25 footer you just took. I'm with Jacoby. I like the twos and threes more. I would have it. I would have it go to a 25 with twos and threes, I think is the answer. No, I like one. I like ones and twos. I like ones and twos because Jacoby, the level of basketball that I play is actually okay. When you, I've crunched the numbers on the shooting percentage of threes. It's actually okay that it's worth twice as much as the layup. Is everybody shooting 25%? Yeah.

Mine is still a bad shot. Mine is also very self-centered. I like two and threes because I can't shoot threes. So let's put more emphasis on the puck closer to the basket. Mine is very much not objective. Yeah. I do think if we had a sports, our pickup basketball would be worth games to 25 and study games to 11 with

twos and threes. I think it's a better, it's not that many. It's like if somebody hits eight threes, you're almost there. Maybe it's the 23. I don't know. Somebody hits eight threes. I'm going home. Somebody hits eight threes in the 23. I don't know. Once it's A3s, I'm going home.

Once it's A3s in the game, I'm leaving. I'm out. So maybe it's the 22 instead of 11. Yeah, we played a 19 twos and threes. It worked out great. By the way, before we go, speaking of 22, today is 2-2-22. Oh.

Oh, no, I'm sorry. 2-22-22. It's five twos. Who is the greatest two of all time? 222. 22. Oh, no, I'm sorry. Two 22, 22. It's five twos. Who is the greatest two of all time? I'll give you some options. Moses Malone, Derek cheater,

Jason kid, Jimmy Fox, Kawhi Leonard, Gary Payton, Rick Barry. I mean, that's easy isn't it it is number two of all time look I was a Red Sox

guy I love Derek Jeter I mean Derek Jeter I feel like Derek Jeter was just the central antagonist over two decades of baseball and then it's like, you like,

I respect the Jader. Yeah. But you just loved him. You actually just love, you actually just loved him. I think Jader is the most famous number two, but I think Jimmy Fox is the best number two. Jimmy Fox's numbers are incredible.

He's such a better baseball player. It's not even close. Get down to the microfiche and look at Jimmy Foxx. If you're sitting on the bulletin I would look through his stats. Playing craps with Bill at a craps table is one of the best things because if you need a number, let's say you need

a four, he'll just be like, alright, 31 and pinky. Any combination of numbers you need, he's got an 80ss 90s basketball player and he just started chanting their name it's one of the most enjoyable things of a list of a thousand enjoyable things

to like gambling with Bill Simmons is the way that he will turn any number you need on a craps table into an NBA player from a certain Jacobs first of all it was the eight year anniversary of us doing the celebrity

basketball game and then staying at Harrah's until seven in the morning which I'm still proud of so we're gonna the 2025 is when we're gonna

do like the full like just like we did this weekend for NBA 75 we'll do something like that for the 10 year there's a lot of

whispers right now that Vegas is kind of back there's no no masks at the tables anymore green circles just telling you because Vegas gambling with masks on Wilds does Vegas is kind of back. There's no masks at the tables anymore. Green circles?

I'm just telling you. Because Vegas, gambling with masks on, Wilds doesn't like gambling. Gambling with the mask on was always one of the saddest things ever. I just couldn't do it. That's not Vegas to me. Vegas to me is, should I have a cigarette for the first two hours of gambling? In hour three, I'm buying the pack. Yeah. How are you going the pack. Do they have

those cigarette holes in the back? Alright, we gotta go. Wilds, we can hear you on First Things First and see you on First Things First. Jacoby, we can see you and hear you on Jalen and Jacoby as Jalen steals your takes and then reuses them three weeks later. In food news. In food news, Jacoby is on

the Ringer Podcast Network doing food news, and you're going to be popping on the reality feed as well. All right. It was great to see you guys. I miss you. Good to see you. I miss you too. All right. I'm with Freddie Gibbs. We're in Shangri-La in Malibu on a Monday,

President's Day weekend. You just got back from Miami. We've been talking about doing this podcast for a while. Long time, long time. And then we saw each other at the Super Bowl and we're like, this is happening. Damn, it's President's Day already? I know. Who would have thought? That's crazy. Let's talk

sports. I want to get into everything, but let's talk sports because I know you love basketball. Neither of us went to the All-Star game and I think we both have regrets because all these great players were there and I was really mad at myself I'm very disappointed I mean Steph hit 16-3 so I wanted to see that and you know like you said when they did the halftime ceremony that was that was amazing man just to see to see Michael Jordan out there drunk man was amazing you know what I'm saying? So that was great, man.

And another funny thing to see was the KG Paul Pierce snub. Ray Allen. Oh, man, that goes deep. That really does go deep. They really hate Ray Allen, man. You know what? I love that part of sports that they're so deep and loyal to that squad that they're like, no, we can't even rock with that.

So I love that. And I love KG anyway, man. Shout out to KG, man. That's one of my close favorite players, man. deep and loyal to that squad that they like no we can't even rock with that so i i love that and i love kg anyway man shout out to kg man that's one of my close favorite players man i think there's more than just him going to miami i feel like there's some personal stuff there too it's like anytime anytime there's real nba hatred i always feel like it's either women or cards like something bad happened one of those two avenues so there's. Like something bad happened on one of those two avenues. So there's some sort of something in one of those two directions. It's definitely personal.

I feel like it's definitely personal. I think that the fact that it was personal probably made him want to leave and go to Miami, man. You know what I'm saying? Might have been part of it. Definitely. Definitely. Were you surprised Jordan got the biggest cheer? Because I was not.

It seemed like the biggest cheers were Jordan LeBron and then Kobe who obviously wasn't there but it seems like those three got the biggest pops they Jordan was the last guy to come out yeah out of everybody right that was they did that correct um the fact that he like when he got up to the podium he didn't know if he was supposed to like stand in the middle of middle or stand amongst everybody else. He's like, hey, I'm the guy, right? I'll stand in the middle of this, right? That was amazing, man.

I'm glad that they added Dame Lillard to the team. Yeah, I voted for him. I had a vote. You didn't vote? No, I had a vote. You had a vote? I voted for Dame. I made the mistake of voting for Dwight Howard. And now, like immediately after, it was like having a bad hookup with somebody.

They were like, why did I do that? What was I thinking? I think Klay Thompson should have been there. Interesting. So a lot of people think that. I don't know if he's played long enough yet. I mean, he's missed the last two years. That's true.

I think that without missing these last two years, I think that he probably would have been there. I think if I had to do it over again, I would have gone Gasol over Dwight Howard. Because Gasol, he played for like 18 years. I thought he was the best player in the 2010 finals. That's true. He definitely was. And I wish I had properly respected him.

When did guys start reaching out to you? When did you start hearing from NBA players? Like, at what point in your career? Probably when I started, like you said, with the women, when I started messing with their girlfriends. My first NBA player called me. I ain't going to say his name, but he was a guy that played on the Bulls. And he called me because he seen my number in the phone.

So that's probably around, like, all the 2010 or something like that. Oh, shit. I wasn't expecting that version of the story. I was just expecting, I like your music it was you know after that my name just started ringing in the month's locker rooms and then that was it you know what i'm saying and then the guy started inviting me to games and it was all for the games you know what i'm saying so it's all love you know i kick it with a lot of the players man and you know we real cool man like you know me kd we real tight rudy gay is a good friend of mine he real tight you know we all do the same type of thing we all got the same driver when we go to miami shout out to popo you know me kd we real tight rudy gay is a good friend of mine he real tight you know we

all do the same type of thing we all got the same driver when we go to miami shout out to poppo you know i'm saying so it's like you know all these guys you know it's a common thing we all go to the same clubs you know definitely like the same girl so you know they gotta bump into me well it's also it seems a lot of the time your your neck of the woods thinks you could do the other person's job, and they think they could do your job. So it's got that piece, too, where it's like, oh, no, in another lifetime, I could have done that. Nah, you know what?

I think I'm decent at basketball for guys my age and pickup guys. When it comes to playing those guys that play basketball as a skill every day, I don't want no parts of that football though you had i played football yeah definitely played that too and you know once you stop once you stop taking impact from football hits for like 12 months you try to go back to that your bones could shatter so i'm like nah you know so i i'm a decent athlete you know amongst you know guys and like i said and then mid to upper 30s and stuff like that but other than that no i don't think that i could hoop like those guys you know and i'll take offense to it when they think they can rap like me i don't like that well a lot of them have like the nice

equipment at their house a lot of them got a lot of it man and i'll be hearing a rap i'll be like man just hoop man come on man you got it man just hoop man you're in the league dog why you want to why you want to be a rapper man i'll just be like oh okay man well everyone wants to do something that they can't do even if they're great at the thing they're doing yeah i mean that's true i mean you know we all gotta evolve ourselves at a certain point but i don't think basketball player to rapper i don't think that usually is one that uh has a nice landing well everyone thinks dame's the best one right dame is ill yeah now i'll. I'd be a liar if I didn't say Dame could rap, because Dame could really rap, you know what I'm saying? He one guy I can't really trip on, because Dame could rap,

you know what I'm saying? So I'm not even mad at Dame. Is there anybody else? Man, I mean, there's a few guys. You know who I, what's the dude's name, that played for the Hornets, Miles. Oh, Miles Bridges? Miles Bridges.

I've seen him do a song, and I like that song, too. I can't even front. And I like him as a player, too. So, yeah, there's a couple guys that can rap, you know what I mean? But 80% of them, nah. Let's go backwards. You have one of the craziest success stories I think of anybody. Wow.

We had a piece on The Ringer last year and they in one paragraph compared to to hank aaron and barry bunce compare me to hang in wow that's crazy one of them was about how you just the longevity like hank aaron right like that was part of the analogy where year after year you're just hitting 30 home runs 35 home runs 39 home runs yeah and then the second piece was the late career search yeah you get nominated for a grammy 2000 2021 grammys was 2020 album right and that's you're in your late 30s at that point that is not usually how this world goes nah i think that um you know i've been getting sharper um as i go and a lot of things um like you said it's just been a consistency I never really like tried to like make um like pop radio hits or anything like that I think that I was I was so happy with

just being able to service a a niche group of people you know I mean that like my music you know I mean like because I used to have shows and it'd be five people there then it'd be 50 people there then when there's a hundred and a thousand people there then i was like oh man let me make sure i please all of these people because i'm so happy that they came you know i mean i wasn't ever trying to really rock out of my zone and i think that's kind of what built my following up until the point that um the mainstream industry couldn't deny it. Cause I don't think that I've ever been a mainstream or a radio artist, but I think that I've just been so good at what I do that, you know, the, the mainstream and the industry can't deny it.

That's why I got nominated for a Grammy. That's probably why I get, you know, um, a lot more looks than, you know, um, probably guys on major labels know um probably guys on major labels i know guys on major labels that got like two or three million followers and they can't pack a show out right i've been selling out tours for you know like 10 years now on my own and they just been growing and the number's been growing like i said i started off with small crowds you know and you know me and lambo was a lot of times we didn't even make money off tours because the cost to um actually tour would you know exude the cost i mean it was worth it yeah it wasn't even worth it but it was worth it in the long run but we did these things so that we can you know be with you know be where

we're at today you know what i mean and you know we're able to do so much so many more things um based off of rap you know what i mean like we get into the film thing now and that's that's a real big thing for me and him so uh you know is you know thank god for the rap game well you said how you didn't think your stuff was necessarily mainstream but it was weird i knew about you even before i met lambo that's crazy um i think i have a tweet i don't know so definitely first year of twitter where i was congratulating you for bringing Gangsta Rap back, which has been like 2009, 2010. That's crazy because when I was signing Interscope, it was a couple of A&Rs there. That short period when I was signing Interscope was like 2006, 2007.

Yeah. They were telling me, and it's crazy, it was like the G-Unit era. It was like the mid to end of that. And they was like, yeah, man, it's time to like that. That gangster rap ain't going to work no more, man. You got to like try something different. I was like, what? Like street rap don't work.

I was like, nah. We always don't have street people. So I don't, like they was really trying to like sway me away from that. You know what I mean? And you had guys. They're like, what about soul? You had a guy. You actually had a guy coming on a record label named Jibbs. You know what I mean? And you had guys. They're like, what about Soul? You had a guy. You actually had a guy coming on the record label named Jibbs.

You know what I mean? You know, big respect to him. But it was a guy, it was called Jibbs. And it was like, everybody would mistake me for him. Oh, no. And I'd be like, oh, my God. You know what I mean? And he had this catchy ringtone type of song.

And I was just like, damn, if this is what I got to do to make it on this record label, I don't think that I'm going to make it on this record label. So I need to learn the business of the music for myself if this is what I want to do so I can learn how to sell it. Well, we were talking about the Kanye doc before we started taping. It's so fascinating to watch him

trying to convince these labels to, and he's playing songs that became songs that everybody knows. Right. And in the moment, nobody sees that those songs are going to become the songs because the way music shifts, by 2003 when he's trying to sell that, everybody's looking for a certain type of sound. Right. That sound didn't make sense to them.

Right. I mean, Kanye was annoying, man. So he went in there and he did what he had to do. And I don't blame him for being annoying to those people. You know what I mean? Like some people say it's annoying and some people call it persistence. I think that, you know,

they didn't really know what they had until he showed them. You know what I mean? And, you know, a lot of young guys these days, they get signed to, you know yeah and you know a lot of young guys these days they get signed to you know um other rappers and rap and rap labels and stuff like that and then they get frustrated when like um things don't move in the direction right that they don't want it to i mean that they want it to and uh it's all predicated on you as the artist man like you

know you can you can sit and wait on the artist or the label head or your CEO to try to put you in position and throw you bones and throw you alley-oops, man, but you really got to get out there and grind yourself, man. And I think that's— Well, you have to believe in your sound, too. You can't let somebody sway you from what you think is in your bones. Man, you know, I feel like I hit a lot of roadblocks in this game. I would say you hit maybe the most. Yeah, definitely., I feel like I hit a lot of roadblocks in this game.

I would say you hit maybe the most. Yeah, definitely. You're definitely in the running for whatever the leaderboard is. Definitely the most. So it's like when I see other rappers that, you know, been signed for like, you know, eight to 10 years to a record label and been making, you know, a lot of hit records on the record label and stuff here. And to see them like complain about the record label now,

it's like, it's crazy. Cause I feel like, man man y'all have had all the advantages you know what i mean like through the label and granted you know um record label contracts aren't fair nah they're predatory loans let's be real about it you know what i'm saying like you know when you sign up to be a rapper you know you're basically taking a loan you know i'm saying and if it's on you if you want to take that loan it It's like going to medical school. Yeah, that's pretty much what it is, man. You know that you're taking a loan going in.

No matter what, no matter how much money you make this label, this thing is not set up for you to recoup. You know? And artists don't understand, like, when you come to,

if you really want to start your own rap career, you might have to just start it out of pocket. Yeah. Out of your own pocket, bro. Because, like, if you come to me start your own rap career, you might have to just start it out of pocket. Out of your own pocket, bro. Because if you come to me for me to help you with your rap career,

for every dollar you make, you're going to have to make $5 to pay me back. I'm not giving you a dollar to get a dollar back. I'm giving you a dollar to get $5 back. Ray, you're almost like a loan shark. Exactly. That's the rap game in a nutshell. I'm not giving you a fuck i mean i'm gonna give you a dollar to get a dollar back okay okay i'm not giving you a dollar to get to make a dollar back yeah and you got to understand that

that's the record labels mentality so if i give you a million dollars i don't want to make a million dollars back well shook shook took that to a whole other level As he should've You know I mean I respect Suge He's one of the most respected Black figures in the music industry And we don't give him his credit because of all the antics You know I mean there's a lot of stuff that he shouldn't have did I like how you put that antics

Yeah That's the nicest thing anyone's ever said about Suge I'll just leave it at that Suge had a lot of antics But I respect his mindset And everything that he did with Death Row. I mean, that was crazy to have a company that huge at the time in the early 90s. I mean, it was only him and Russell Simmons. And then Master P followed. And you had guys like J Prince.

These are real black music moguls. You know what I mean? Tony Draper. Guys like that don't get credit for that. Plus to stage the murder of Tupac while you're in the car, I thought would be more incredible. But just to not be afraid of the bullets? How do you do that? Hey, man.

Shug is one of the toughest guys walking, man. You know what I mean? I don't believe that story, but if anyone on the earth would have actually had the balls to try that, I think it would have been him. Yeah, all right. Be like, all right, just make sure you don't hit me. Yeah, just make sure you don't hit me, man. I'm going to burn. I heard so many stories on that, man.

Everybody was like, yeah, Suge just kneeled down and burnt himself with a cigarette lighter. And when Tupac got shot and he held him up, I was like, man, y'all are ridiculous, man. No way, man. No way anybody would put themselves in harm's way like that to get somebody else killed. So, you know, Tupac just died due to gang violence, man. He shouldn't would put themselves in harm's way like that to get somebody else killed. So, you know, Tupac just died due to gang violence, man. He shouldn't have even

been a part of it. He shouldn't have been gangbanging. You know what I'm saying? So, you know. He's one of my all-time favorites. When he went to jail,

I think he was never the same after that. What do you mean? I think he came out of that. My post, Me Against the World? Yeah, just I think he came out of that feeling like he had to act a certain way.

But if you actually look at not only how he grew up, but what he was like in the late eighties, early nineties, like he was a really complicated guy. He was a really thoughtful guy. And I think, I just don't think he would have drifted as hard in that direction as he did in 95 and 96.

If like something that almost seemed like something broke with him. It's a part of his environment. You know what I mean? But, you know, the sad part about that is, you know, he had to come out and be with Suge because Suge was his lifeline. Right, he was his protector. Yeah, he had, like, Suge was the only one that wanted to bail him out. Like, why, you know, Jimmy Iovine and all of those other guys

and Tom Wally didn't bail him out. They had the capabilities to do that as well, but they didn't do that. They let him sit there. So, you know, Suge took a chance. You know, they just didn't handle it correctly and do the correct things when he came out. But a lot, you know, you got to understand this too, man. A lot of those guys were young. How old was Suge then?

How old was Tupac? Tupac was what, 25? Well, you know, it reminds me a little of the NBA where they hadn't learned from the previous generations the mistakes. Because I always feel like the LeBron generation, I've said this before on my pod, the LeBron generation learned from the mistakes of the guys from the 90s, right?

They screwed up in all these different ways and they became cautionary tales. They're like, oh, don't be like that. Don't do that. Watch out who's spending your money and just 19 million different things. And then when lebron and wade come in they have it figured out that when you look at the mid 90s those guys who were they learning from like that like that whole world had just emerged over the over the previous like eight years it did it did

i mean yeah they weren't yeah it was like the wild wild. They weren't, yeah. It was like the Wild Wild West. It was fresh. I mean, it was like Too Short and Ice Cube and guys from, you know what I'm saying, the late 80s and early 90s. Well, think of the NWA. Like the movie, which I know has some flaws, but it does point out like how crazy it was, you know, that you could just get completely obliterated by your business manager or whatever and have no idea what's happening. Yeah, you can. And that's still happening to this day. You know what I'm saying? Like, a lot of people getting killed by their business manager.

You know what I'm saying? I left a firm because of that. But not because of me, but somebody else. It was like at Word. I was like, I'm out. You know what I'm saying? But, you know, this game is, you know, you got to save your money, man. You got to pay your taxes.

The IRS will come for you, dog, like whether you're an entertainer or an athlete. You know what I mean? I think you got to have good people with good business around you. I love what LeBron and those guys do. It's like LeBron just basically brought his whole sports agency into the NBA. You know what I'm saying? So that was amazing. You know what I'm saying? So that was amazing. You know what I'm saying? And for him to be that young going into the NBA to have so many things figured out was crazy.

You know what I mean? Because I was definitely expecting LeBron to fuck up. Well, you know, I think we all were. At one point. If you think of him like a child celebrity, it's one of the great success stories ever. I just met LeBron. Because he's famous when he was 15. I just met LeBron for the first time, Super Bowl weekend, too.

Yeah. And I was just like, wow, I can't believe you, like, I ain't even know he rock on my music, because I be seeing him, like, listening to, like, a lot of bad music in the car on his Instagram. So I be like, damn, LeBron, you really need to switch that up. You know, when I see him, I was like, man, you need to switch that music up, because, man, you be listening to some bad music on there, man. I ain't going to drop no names, but, man, you be listening to some bad songs, man,

and some real bad verses, man. You know what I'm saying? I'm going to send you some joints, LeBron, so you know what I'm saying? You have something to bump, you know? When we talk about roadblocks, you mentioned one to me that I never considered with you. You're from Gary, Indiana.

Wow, that's the biggest one. Well, a roadblock for a bunch of different pretty obvious reasons, but when you're not from one of the big cities that has basically like a rap hip-hop factory and all these people looking out for each other and trying to find the next one, and you're basically

on a team. You're in Chicago, you're in Atlanta, you're in New York, you're in Philly, you're in LA. You join a team. You're basically like the rookie first-rounder, the undrafted free agent. But you're in New York, you're in Philly, you're in LA, you join a team. You're basically like the rookie first rounder, the undrafted free agent. Right. But you're from Gary, Indiana. You had no team. No team whatsoever.

And it's like, you know, Chicago's right next to us. So it's like we got to kind of like use their resources with the radio and things of that nature. But, you know, it's difficult for artists like Gary to get radio play in Chicago. Yeah. You know, that's just the honest to God truth. And that's how you're going to find a mentor. Yeah. I mean, like, I mean, no disrespect, you know, and shout out to all my people from Chicago.

But, you know, a lot of those guys, they weren't trying to play no Gary on the radio. They was just like, yo, we got enough guys over here that we trying to get put on. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, y'all Indiana motherfuckers can wait. You know what I to get put on. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, y'all Indiana motherfuckers can wait. You know what I'm saying? Whatever. You know what I'm saying? You better go to Indianapolis or something like that.

That was kind of the attitude toward us, I feel like. You know what I mean? And that shit probably carried on from the days of the Jacksons. Think about Michael Jackson to Joe Jackson and Gary Indiana in the 60s, 70s. You know what I'm saying? Like, think about how many Chicago artists and guys like that were trying to, like, get in the same position they were in, and they made it coming out of Gary, you know what I'm saying?

So, I mean, like, you know, and like I said, Chicago's a big metropolis, and we, and, you know, you would think Mike and them were right there, you know, in that world, but they weren't. They weren't. You know, they took it from Gary to Hitsville to Los Angeles, you know what I'm saying? So, you know, in that world, but they weren't, they weren't, you know, they took it from Gary to his field or Los Angeles, you know what I'm saying? So, you know, people almost think more of them as like Motown. Yeah. But it was, it was a different, I don't even think most people know the Gary Indiana part. Oh yeah, man.

They, Michael Jackson was a woman. My dad asked and talent shows their whole life. You know what I'm saying? My dad was a singer, you know, him and Mike, the same age. So, you know what I mean? They'd be going against Mike's winning. Yeah. Mike's father, Mike smoke. My dad, I love i love you dad but mike fuck you up every time man

no way no way you mess with mike my pops could sing but he couldn't dance like mike that's how mike could beat him in all talent shows yeah i think it's weird because mike's legacy is so complicated now i'm calling mike like i'm his friend i love my you know mike's still around somewhere you know no i get it the but he really probably was like one of the most four or five talented people ever ever in culture or sports yeah in anything i think in sports too i think mike could really i think mike had a jump shot man i think i think you could have posted about mike would have trouble if you took him down low. He weighed 111 pounds. He did weigh like 111 pounds, but he was very, very light on his feet.

Mike was probably quick, man. I mean, you know, he's one of the best dancers of all time. You know who played basketball real good that moved like Michael Jackson? Chris Brown. You know, I heard that. I heard he used to dominate like these celebrity runs in LA. Yeah, he the best celebrity basketball player for sure. Chris Brown, for sure. He's first.

Kevin Hart's last. Kevin Hart's last. Kevin Hart's definitely last. Snoop is good, too. And Snoop is older, but he's still good. I coached Snoop at a celebrity all-star game in 2014. Snoop still got good coordination. He was kind of a banger. Sneaky, just offensive rebounder.

And he hit 15-footers. I liked him. Yeah, that's what he does. He had a nice game. That's his game. Also, he was absolutely faded headed into the game, which I really respect. I thought in the locker room before

the game, I'm like, oh, I guess Snoop's not going to play. Nope. He played like half the game. He was into it. I didn't know how many people drank alcohol before football games until I went to college. That's a thing? Yeah, we should talk about that. So you play... I played at Ball State for a year. Scholarship, you got booted? Nah, I just got about that. So you play... I played at Ball State for a year.

Scholarship, you got booted? No, I just got on when I got to the school. And I got booted because I wasn't going to class. And it was just like, man. But I had so many guys from my graduating class in high school to go there. Like my homeboy, Alger, my homeboy, Anthony. I went because they went because I felt comfortable. And when I got there, it was just, I don't know, everything just was too easy.

Being an NCAA athlete, when everybody like, you know, just kissing your ass, it's like, you know, I just felt like I didn't have to go to class. I felt like I didn't have to do nothing. So, you know, I kind of messed that up. Were you a receiver? I played receiver going in and then um about a spring season going to the next season um i was playing a safety and i started

the spring game that's how i was like oh yeah my football career about to blossom oh my god yeah and i was like all right i'm about to be in this i'm about to be doing this all right this is it this is it i ain't gotta worry about nothing else it was like uh nah is music happening at all at this point or not at all not at all i was like 19 years old i. Is music happening at all at this point or no? Not at all. Not at all. I was like 19 years old. I wasn't really even thinking about rap until I- Then you went to the Army for a little bit, right? Yeah, I went to the Army.

I went to the Army for a stupid program called Pre-Trial Diversion because I was stealing stuff. And I went to jail, and they put me in this Pre-Trial Diversion thing. And I was just like, why, y'all? What is this? And they was like, that's why I go to the Army and do basic training i don't gotta go to jail and it's like yeah i was like i didn't even know a program such as that existed but um i did that and um you know army life wasn't really for me i wasn't about to like that sounds like the first half of a good movie yeah except

for the part that you ended up not making it but there's a different movie where the second half of that all of a sudden you make it and you're sent off to do something good army life was definitely you know what i will say this about the army um i feel like a lot of kids need it like to go to need to go through basic training i think that it should be i'm gonna say a requirement you know i mean like you know know, Israel or nothing like that. Because I think they make them go to the army off top. You know what I'm saying? I think that's kind of cool, though.

Because when I meet girls over there, they got some bad girls over there, too. You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? When I meet girls, they be like, yeah, some fresh out of the army. And I'm like, damn, bitch, you was in the army? That's crazy. You know what I'm saying? Like, it'd be dope.

And they'd be having their shit together. I'd just be feeling like they'd be having their shit together more. Because when I went to basic basic it gave me a lot more discipline yeah um things that i would probably wasn't getting at home because my parents was working a lot you know i mean uh you know and doing what they had to do and just me being uh you know just in the street you know i mean this is things that i didn't recognize that i needed and um you know i ain't telling y'all to go be all you can be. I'm just telling you what this benefit.

I got you. You need a little discipline. Yeah, this thing, that nine weeks of basic training really benefited me a lot as a man. I can say that. So is that story true? You're working at the mall? Yeah, definitely.

And who's the guy that you meet? Which one? You meet a musician at the mall, right? Does somebody help you at the mall? Who? Gary Mall. Gary Mall. See, this is why I don't trust the internet.

You're working at the Gary Mall, right? Uh-huh. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's not true? It wasn't a musician that I made. And I was working at Payless in the village in Gary. That's the crazy part. At Payless? Payless Shoes. That's the crazy part. And my uncle.

At Payless. Payless Shoes. That's crazy, right? My mom made me work there because my uncle worked there. It was either like work at Payless or get out. And I was like, damn, sweat. So, no, I wasn't no famous musician that I met at the mall. This story is one of my best friends.

His name was rod so he was um so he was making like really the motherfucker was my barber you know i'm saying he was the motherfucker that had to fight out the haircut shout out my boy rod you know we used to go to his basement and get our haircut so um one day he started like you know he was making a lot of he's making money you know doing whatever he was doing in the street and cutting hair and stuff. And then he just decided to, like, start making music. And I was like, one day he came in the village and was like, yo, check out one of my CDs. I was like, man, I'm broke as fuck.

You see me working in here? I ain't got no money for no CD. So then I get the CD, and I'm like, hold on, this is really your CD? I thought he was, like, selling some other kind of CD. Yeah. I was like, that's yours. And he was like, like, hold on, this is really your CD. I thought he was like selling some other kind of CD. Yeah. I was like, this is yours. And he was like, yeah, support him, man. I was like, I looked at the back of it.

It had a barcode on it and all of that shit. And I was like, damn, you really like have an album. I was like, how did you do this? And he was like, well, I just recorded it at a finger roll studio. And I went and got it mixed in Chicago. And then I went to this place called Disc Makers, and they made the CD. I was like, what?

Once I learned that whole process, I was like, oh, yeah. If you could do this, I want to get involved. Now, I didn't know how I wanted to get involved. I was just like, I want to get involved. So you didn't even know what your sound was, anything at that point? I didn't even know right then and there if I could rap at all. I just saw my friend making something

that I feel could turn a profit. And I was like, all right, let me try to do something. I maybe wanted to come in and be like Suge Knight. I wanted to get like an artist or something. I said, I told myself, I was like, all right, maybe I'll be his DJ or something like that. And then, you know, I found out I could rap better than him. And I was like, I'm just going to be a rapper.

You know what I'm saying? You know what though? Sometimes that's the best way to be good at something if you have this bizarre path to it where all of a sudden it's happening and you're not like you're not doing the traditional way the way everybody else did there's some basketball player examples like this too yeah definitely it's like you gotta gauge your skill like i you know he you know that was my friend one of my best friends so i uh that I did, I was running to him like, yo,

you think this is cool? You think it's cool? He was like, yeah, I guess like he, he wasn't even really passionate about being a rapper like that. He just knew that what to do, you know what I'm saying?

And he was like, he showed me what to do. And then I was like, once he saw how passionate I was about it, he was like, whoa, you should really, really run with it.

It's like Embiid played volleyball until he was 15. I heard that volleyball and soccer or something like that. Yeah's like Embiid played volleyball until he was 15. I heard that. Volleyball and soccer or something like that. Yeah, Keane played soccer. And there's all these different cases of these late bloomers. Anthony Edwards was a football player. I mean, what part of Africa is Embiid from? That's probably the only sport.

The Cameroon. In his school, probably. Like, no disrespect or nothing like that. But they probably didn't even have basketball goals. They probably only had volleyball and soccer. Anthony Edwards, I think, was the best football player in Georgia and was kind of moonlighting

as a basketball player. Then they're like, you should play basketball. Yeah, he looked like a football player. He plays like a football player, though. I like the way he... I love his game. I like how he carries himself

as this guy who's just like, I'm the best athlete. I don't care who else is out here. Yeah, definitely, definitely. Once his jump shot get all the way there, it's a wrap. You know what I'm saying? Like, I like him and Ja Morant. Like, what they bring to the game.

Good personalities, too. I like both. Those guys are good interviews. Edwards is funny. Like, there's funny behind-the-scenes clips with him already. Definitely funny, man. I like him. Ja's funny, too.

I like him, man. Yeah, I like both those guys. Yeah. So you're doing mixtapes the whole second half of the 2000s. Yeah, pretty much. You know what I'm saying? Because what's interesting, I mean, one of the many interesting things about you is, like, music whole second half of the 2000s. Yeah, pretty much. Cause what's interesting. I mean,

one of the many interesting things about you is like music's changing in the late 2000s. Right. Right. Definitely. Yeah. It's like Tumblr rap and all this weird shit and SoundCloud's coming. Right.

And all of a sudden you can bypass the middleman if you have good stuff. Yeah. Even before that, like you had to like, cause like people say like Spotify, Apple music and a title and stuff like that. But people don't understand, like, the iTunes era. Like, me and Lambo, like, was some of, like, the first, like, artists to kind of, like, monetize ourselves in that iTunes era. Because we had to put the music on iTunes.

You know, when I was, I'll give you a prime example. When I was around Young Jeezy, like, they was doing mixtapes. Everybody was doing mixtapes in Jeezy. And those guys were, like, putting it on, like, what was those mixtape sites? Dat Piff and stuff like that. And, you know, Jeezy and them would tell the record label, like, oh, let's just throw away music or whatnot. But really, they was going to Dat Piff and all of that and these mixtape sites getting a check for those mixtapes you know i'm saying so when i was around i was like damn i want to do a mixtape i want to make i want to sell it online how how do you do that

you know and then but i wasn't willing to like give it up to like a mixtape site for some upfront money or something like that's like i want all the rights to it. It's funny that you saw that. Yeah, well, Lambo helped us. Yeah, Lambo, yeah. You know what I'm saying? So, you know, when we step back and look at that,

it was just like, yo, man, I think that we should just go direct to the consumer with this. So we just figured out distribution and how we could put it on iTunes at the time

and then the rest is history. Then when streaming came into play, you were ready. We were already ready. You were like three,. Then when streaming came into play, we were already ready. You were like three, four years ahead of it. Yeah, we were already ready. So is it better or worse for you that the Interscope thing fell through in 06? Way better.

Way better. Because I look at guys' careers from that era, a lot of them not here no more. You know what I mean? Like something could have popped off big for me in 2008, and 2022 I could be nowhere to be found right so you know i think that uh all of that was just that was rap school for me you know that was teaching me you know um if i really wanted to do this i had to really you know um i couldn't just mail it in i had to really like get up and really be great at this for real you know i'm saying And I seen laziness kill a lot of careers, you know?

But you were Young Jeezy's label for how many years? Probably like a year and a half, almost two years, you know? But that was another, like, rap school type of thing, you know? The good thing about that situation is I wasn't, like, locked into anything, you know? We were really more so, like, you know, on some homie anything, you know, um, you know, we were really more so like, you know, on some homie stuff, you know what I mean? We was just homies that did songs, you know what I mean? Um, but you had your sound by then. Yeah. I had my sound by then, you know, that was after I had already made it on a freshman double XL cover on my own and all of that stuff.

So it was just like, you know, I was in a position and getting my sound. But I think that being around Cheezy helped me evolve my sound, though. You know what I mean? Because I was learning things, melodic things that he was doing on records that I feel like can help, you know, add to my style and things of that nature. You know, it was like just pauses on the beat, letting the beat breathe. Like I said, the melodies, the hooks, you know what I mean? Like he was a genius at that, you know what I mean? And like I said, like on Twitter a couple weeks back, like I think that he had like a Tupac style type impact on that era.

You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, like around like what? Like between like 08, I'll say, to like 2014. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, like around, like what? Like between like 08, I'd say, to like 2014. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, when the whole BMF thing was going in Atlanta and all of that stuff. Like Jeezy was a real, a force. You know what I'm saying? Well, you, I was working with Lambo's sister in 2014 because we had Grantland.

That was, that was Pinata, right? Yo, shout out to Molly. What was it? That was, my son is here. That's his favorite album. in 2014 because we had Grantland that was that was Pinata right yo shout out to Molly what was that was my son is here that's his favorite album oh yeah what album

was that 2014 Jeezy wasn't that Pinata oh my album yeah I wasn't

you know that was right when I was leaving Jeezy see the crazy part

about it is when I was recording that album I was recording it

I was with Jeezy and when I was showing those guys that album i was uh recording it i was with jeezy and when i was showing those guys that album it was they was like what's this you know i was like oh no is it kind of weird and he was like yeah you kind of weird it's kind of weird for me and i was like okay well you know i'm still gonna make it you know what i'm saying so but uh you know another another level of rap school right there with madlib. It was just showing me that, you know, all right, man, I got to step outside of the box to be recognized, you know what I'm saying?

Because I saw a lot of rappers try to run in the same lane as a Jeezy, and they had no results, you know what I'm saying? Because they tried to run into the same window that was closing, and he had already jumped through it. Yeah, you were in a nice at least in that part you're in a nice spot where you were like the the person that people loved or you kind of you didn't have the backlash yet no people that loved you or they weren't like trying to

figure out ways to no no man he's not that good we're trying to bring you down any of that stuff you were people just loved you right which is nice. I'm sure like now that you've got way more visible the last couple years, I'm sure there's been a little bit of a backlash. Oh, a lot. A lot of it.

Especially, you know, in the rap industry. But that's what makes it, that's what makes it great, man. That's what makes it not boring. You know what I'm saying? I mean, it was probably a stretch

for like the past like six months where I couldn't wake up without seeing a dj academics post about me and that was amazing you know i'm saying because people pay for that kind of promo i mean the labels actually pay him to put their artists up so i was like wow i had to double back to my label i was like y'all paying this motherfucker oh y'all not paying this motherfucker you know i'm saying but um hey man it is what it is you know you know what I'm saying? But, hey, man, it is what it is. You know what you sign up for when you get in the industry. I mean, shit.

Basketball players got to sit up and listen to guys talk about them on every platform, knowing a man, you know, football, any athlete. You know what I mean? You have to be critiqued. I mean, that's what sells the game. You know what I mean? The media of it. So, you know, you're getting millions of dollars to play.

You know what I mean? We're making money to do this music thing. So, you know, we know what comes with to play, you know what I mean? We making money to do this music thing. So, you know, we know what comes with it. It's usually a sign that something good is happening. That's what I said. I was like, you know, if people are not talking about you, then, hey, you know, as long as they're not canceling you all the way out, you know what I mean? I'm not Bill Cosby or nothing like that.

So I'm good. Well, you, you weren't falsely accused of a crime, spent time in jail and got exonerated. That wasn't a fun year. That definitely wasn't a fun year, but that added to the story as well, man. Right. I'm glad that, I can't say I'm glad that happened, but you know what I'm saying? It just speaks to, I feel like it just speaks to my character, man. It just speaks to the things people try to do to try to darken your moment.

You know what I mean? I think that i was um come i was coming all i just made a like shadow of a doubt and i was on tour and i felt like i was in a great musical space yeah you know i mean maybe not such a good personal space so i feel like that time that downtime that six months to a year down where i wasn't really visible and rap because of that case it was probably just God just slowing me down and putting me away so that I can be away from something. What did you need to be slowed down from? Man, probably at that time,

there was a lot of stuff going on in the streets. And when you blend in the street people with your rap job, that always gets complicated. You know what I mean? You know, nowadays, you know, I'm, like, lighter than ever when it comes to friends. You know what I'm saying? Like, because, you know, a lot of my friends still, you know, do the same thing. And I'm just like, man, you know, at this point in my career, in my life, man, I got three kids now.

It's just like, man, I don't even, like, have those type of guys around me anymore because it's just like we almost got murdered what year was that yeah a couple of times but it's crazy how dangerous rap is man i will say that i feel like everybody thinks it's getting less dangerous it's not i feel positive that was 2014 i think yeah around that time in brooklyn after a show but um you know it's been other, like, shootings after shows, you know what I mean, that I've dealt with. Like, I had a shooting after a show one time in Toronto where this guy, like, just straight tried to shoot me in the head, and I was just like, wow, you know what I mean?

And then, like, his gun went off, and then, like, he was so surprised that he shot the gun, and he ran off and i chased him but you know i couldn't tell he was fast as fuck i couldn't catch him but uh you know i'm saying it i was it it uh you know it's just like i feel like if i was a a country singer or or something else other than like a hip- artist, I don't feel like all of this like violence and things like that would be geared toward me, man,

because, you know, I feel like this is the only industry like show me how many country music casualties we got this year or last year. It's probably like five rap deaths last year alone. I'd like to walk through your country music career and figure out what that would have looked like. I'd be to walk through your country music career And figure out what that would have looked like I'd be living in

From Indiana I'd be living in Nashville You'd be Fred Gibbs I'd be Fred Gibbs You'd be Freddie Straight out of Gary, Indiana Down here in Nashville Shout out to Nashville

I love Nashville That is a beautiful city Oh my god I love Nashville That's one of the places my daughter wants to go to college That place is great That's something Nashville's amazing

It's like I walk that strip And it's like a bar Yeah Every corner Everybody's performing And like you can walk To the Titan Stadium Everything

It was beautiful I love that There's some cities Up and coming cities That have just figured it out Yeah And you go there and like Oh you guys have figured it out

Yeah they figured out The whole stadium situation And the whole party situation Cincinnati as well Cincinnati interesting Cincinnati's amazing. I love Cincinnati. It's like, what, three

the Bengal Stadium, the Red Stadium, and like the Bearcats Stadium. It's like all like the one. And the Joe Burrow statue. They got to build that this summer. They definitely got to build that. They're going to build that. I think Joe Burrow will go back to another Super Bowl. I think that's a safe bet unless his offensive line gets him killed over the next two, three years.

They're going to get some blockers. Yeah. I think they're going to ramp that up, though, this year, though. I think they'll be back. You'll see them again because they got a pretty good defense and a good secondary as well. So I think they'll be back. I don't know if they'll be back. I don't know if they're going to repeat, but they'll be back.

So what led to the 2020 album that got you nominated for a grammy because that would you say that was your peak or is it just like because you get nominated for a grammy people thinks it's your think it's your peak um it might not be musically i think it's only your peak if you win you know what i mean i didn't win so um i think i'm gonna keep going back you know i mean i don't even know if I want to win if I get nominated again. Do you pretend to be excited for who? Was it Nas beat you? Oh, yeah.

Was Nas beat me? Oh, Nas noted I hit the best album that year, so it's all good. You know what I'm saying? So I'm glad that he won the Grammy. He definitely deserved a Grammy for his illustrious career. You know what I'm saying? But we know who hit the best album that year. So I'm not concerned with winning it. You know what I'm saying? But we know who had the best album that year. So I'm not concerned with winning it.

You know what I mean? If I win it, that'd be amazing. You know what I'm saying? Like, if I win a Grammy for it, if I get album idea for the Grammy, I might not make another album no more. I might be like, all right, I'm kind of done with this.

Just hang out. Yeah, I'll just go hang out and walk around LA with my Grammy. But, you know, like I said, I'm not tripping on not winning it. The fact that I'm getting celebrated and nominated and recognized. I think that was good for you. Yeah, definitely.

There is some level of validation. I think the Grammys are broken in a hundred different ways. Right, definitely. Especially when you start talking about rap and hip-hop and categories like that. But there's a validation to it. There's definitely a certain validation to it, you know what I'm saying? And it was a career milestone for myself and Lambo and Alchemist.

So I wasn't mad at that at all. And we did it doing something that me and Alchemist have been wanting to do for a long time anyway. I feel like the fact that what makes our Grammy nomination so special is we did it our way. I feel like we didn't conform to anything. I don't even think it was any hooks or singers, anything on Alfredo.

So it was just me just raw rapping. You know what I mean? It's showing the world that I'm one of the best rappers. And now they got to recognize that. What's your song on that album, Ben? 1985. Oh, yeah, that's the 85. Yeah, that's the one, man. That's the one. I love that. What's your song on that album, Ben? 1985. And the song is off the map. Oh, yeah.

1985. Yeah, that's the one, man. That's the one. I love that. We was watching The Last Dance, and that inspired that. You know what I'm saying? I'm about to watch The Last Dance again, just to finish out this Triple S album. So you watch sports documentaries for inspiration when you're making songs?

Yeah, definitely, definitely. Well, you've had a lot of sports-themed songs over the years. Man, you know what? I think I had eight Jordan documentary tapes, you know what I'm saying? And Come Fly With Me and all of this VHS stuff. I feel like I watched all of that.

And so a lot of that stuff was on The Last Dance, too. So I love sports docs. You know, I'm big on, I got to see 30 for 30 you know i mean i just seen that they're about to do one on american gladiators i gotta check that out that's gonna be crazy i we have some good stuff in the works that you'll be excited about i'll tell you later i'm with that yeah we're still working on our stuff oh yeah so what's next for you uh Film, man. Like really diving into this film career. So who are your role models? You're thinking for the crossover.

For the crossover, I'd definitely say Ice Cube, Common. Who else as well? Queen Latifah. I don't think she gets enough credit as being one of the best rappers and one of the best actors and you know ever to you know crossover and she's good in juice we just did juice on the rewatch of it like 10 minutes ll cool j as well yeah you know what i mean like you know i made some jokes about ll cool j but i love ll cool j and you know he's in the rock and roll hall of Fame and an esteemed actor.

I study all those guys. I'm definitely studying some Samuel L. Jackson and some Don Cheadle and some Mahershala Ali. Those guys that I look up to as well in the acting game. I'm trying to just get there

as an actor the same way I got there as a rapper. I know it's going to take hard work. So you're better as villain or hero? I don't know yet. Or like one of those anti-heroes? I don't know. Like a Tony Soprano. I don't know yet.

The bad guy that I'm rooting for. I only played the villain so far. I think I just got another role. I don't know yet. I think I just got another role. I'm going to kind of play the hero a little bit. But I've only been playing villain so far. So I like being the villain.

You know what I mean? One day I think I'll be a hero. I want to play a cop one day. What about ex-football player turned cop and you don't get along with your partner? That'd be dope. I don't know if anyone's ever made, oh no, wait, they make that movie all the time.

Right. You got to do one buddy cop movie where you don't get along, but you have to. I definitely want to do a cop movie. That's definitely my dream. I want to do a cop movie with Samuel L. Jackson or something like that. Oh, my God.

Sam Jackson's career. First of all, I can't believe two of the biggest sponsors we have in the world right now are him and Snoop Dogg. Oh, right. For products. Right. That's crazy. Capital One. A plus list sponsor people.

Definitely. Sam Jackson was like, even in the the mid 90s you never would have guessed that oh my god he played a crackhead of jungle fever I never thought that he would be the capital one man even when when he was in Pulp Fiction it was like really Sam Jackson yeah the guy from jungle fever but no because you know what Sam Jackson represents he's just like he that black guy that walk in the room that you don't want to fuck with you know i'm saying so it's like he has a commanding voice i feel like samuel jackson can make white people bash it so you know i'm saying today be like oh yeah i think i should buy that yeah with samuel jackson

so it's just like you know he just has a commanding voice and just a presence about him you know i mean like i mean he's fucking nick well you know who's The coolest is his daughter Zoe. Oh yeah? Oh yeah. You'd like her. She's a good one. Sam's secretly just a family man guy. I went to his house once and he had one of the nicest houses probably in LA. I'm pretty sure. You can see all the movie money that he made over the years.

I'm pretty sure he does, man. Sam's doing good. Things turned out well for Sam. If you could have at least 50% of that for movies, that would be nice. It's a good sam things turned out well for sam if you could if you could have at least 50 of that for movies that would be nice man that would be a good audible for you that's definitely hey he's definitely my hero man so i definitely want to get exactly where he is and uh michael k williams as well that's another name i forgot to mention and rest in peace nice dude ben any questions before we go i I should do that question. Let's go.

So you said you got inspiration on, like, sports thoughts. Yep. And on Pinata, you made Lakers and Knicks. Which one do you like better? Wow. Which team do I like better? No, which song do you like better? Oh, Lakers and Knicks.

Oh, wow. I like Knicks better. I like that beat better. And I just like that song. You know what I'm saying? Like, just, you know, the vibe it was on. You know what I mean? I like Nick's better. I like that beat better, and I just like that song. You know what I'm saying? Just the vibe it was on. You know what I mean? I like that bounce a little bit more than the Lekker song.

But yeah, Nick's probably one of my favorite songs. I like that Nick's song, too, and I would go this far. One of the highlights of the 21st century for the Nick's, just being in one of your songs. It's like there's been a lot of other highlights. Maybe round two once. Oh, man. Come on, man.

Oh, man. The Knicks. I think you naming a song Knicks was like the third biggest 21st century highlight for the Knicks. I hope I didn't curse the Knicks. So you root for the Pacers now? Or not really? You don't root for anybody?

I root for the Bulls. I'm a Bulls fan at that heart. Okay. Even though you're from Indiana? Yeah. But you know what, man? I'm from Gary. So we all watch the Bulls. Oh, it's one of those yeah we got Chicago radio Chicago news

we didn't I never seen a Pacers game on TV until the Bulls played them I forgot to ask you this before and I hated Reggie Miller back in the day because he was so he was like the the nemesis when he did the push off right oh my god I was so mad I was so hot um you're kind of like an adopted la guy now i forgot to ask you yeah i've been living in la for a long time you know i'm saying i feel like you should be able to you know how like when uh like hakeem played for america when he was able to you applied for american citizenship right i feel like you should be able to do that with la so you get into the whole world i should man, man. I feel like they, you know, LA kind of really have accepted me as like a West Coast kind of artist.

Yeah, you kind of are a West Coast. West Coast should be allowed to trade for you. Yeah, they should. West Coast. You know what? This is my hugest fan base out here. I know. And you've been out here for a long time, I feel like. A long time. A long time. I don't know. You've been out here way longer than LeBron. I lived out here longer than Tupac. Right.

That's true. How long was Tupac? Tupac was here like five years than Tupac. Right. That's true. How long was Tupac? Tupac was here like five years. Tupac was here like five years, man. You know what I'm saying? How long have you been here?

Oh, man, I've been here since 05. Yeah, that's bullshit. Yeah, it's like 17 years. I think after like 15 years you should be able to change teams. I put in my work, man.

I went to L.A. County here too, so you know what I mean? I put in my work. There's no GM of the West Coast sound that could just adopt you and say that you're officially here it gotta be like dr dre or something like that man he gotta like bless me with a song or something like that then you know i i probably have my

all the way west coast pass i got like a a driver's permit i don't have my license but i'm good though but i've been moving around on it so it's no problem how come you never had your own podcast you know what that's something that i'm gonna go into after i retire from rap i don't want to rap and uh do a podcast at the same time if you do a podcast that i'm not involved we're gonna feud i'm going straight to you it's gonna be an actual feud like i'm coming straight to you some of the ones you've had in the past bill the only thing that i want to do for the rest of my life is wake up do podcast and do movies if i do five movies a year and a podcast i need to be involved we'll talk i'm about to drop another classic album so i i probably have like three or four classic albums

under my belt you know i mean movies and do a podcast man i feel like that's a great career man i think you could totally transition into a sports talking head definitely i definitely would do a sports podcast easily. When's your album coming out? Album comes out in June. All right. Good luck. Freddie Gibbs.

I'm glad we did this. Thank you. We appreciate it. The real Ben Simmons. All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Jacobian Wilds. Thanks to Freddie Gibbs.

Thanks to Craig Horlbeck for stepping in for Nephew Kyle this week. Thanks to Dylan Berkey and Steve Cerruti. We will be back on this feed on Thursday. See you then. I don't have.