The Bill Simmons Podcast - A Lakers Eulogy, Suns of Anarchy, Joker’s Wild, and Round 2 Predictions With Seerat Sohi and J. Kyle Mann

Episode Date: June 4, 2021

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Seerat Sohi and J. Kyle Mann to discuss the Lakers' Round 1 playoff exit at the hands of the uber-confident Suns, the Lakers offseason, the Suns’ Round 2 prospects, and more (5:30). Then they talk about the Nuggets closing out their Round 1 series with the Trail Blazers, Nikola Jokic’s domination of the series, potential Trail Blazers trades and more (48:30). Finally they make predictions for some Round 2 playoff series including Suns-Nuggets, Buck-Nets, Hawks-76ers, and more (1:13:30). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Seerat Sohi and J. Kyle Mann Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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You must be 21 plus and present in select states. Gambling problem called Win 100 Gambler or visit rg-help.com. We're also brought to you by TheRinger.com and The Ringer Podcast Network. If you missed the rewatchables this week, we did Memento. We're doing a classic on Monday. We actually got back together in the old studio. Me, Chris Ryan, Sean Fantasy in person. We did the next rewatchables,

which is coming on Monday. I'll tell you what it is now. What the hell? Raiders of the Lost Ark. You might've heard of it. One of the greatest movies of all time. It's the 40 year anniversary next week. So we jumped in.

It is on Paramount, by the way, if you have a Paramount Plus, so you can watch it over the weekend when you're not watching sports. I popped on a couple podcasts this week. On Wednesday, all hell broke loose with the Celtics. So if you're expecting to hear my Celtics thoughts on this podcast,

you don't need to listen to them on this one. We already did it. Ryan Rosillo's pod, late Wednesday morning Pacific time. We had it up. Me, Ryan Rosillo, Kevin O'Connor, Jackie McMullen. We broke the whole thing down. And I honestly think we covered everything. I thought I'd have a moment where maybe I dove in a little bit more when we had new information or whatever, but there really, it really was what it was. Danny retired, Brad Stevens took over. He's not going to be the coach anymore. They're going to look for a coach and we'll see how it goes. But, uh, we've been talking on this podcast for a couple of months now that I did not think that they're

going to be running it back with all the same people. They had, you know, same owner, same front office, same coach for the last eight years. They had the same owner, same front office since basically 2004. And at some point, you know, you need a change. And I think everybody probably sensed that. So we talked all the ramifications, all theories, everything on that podcast. If you want to hear me talk Celtics, go there. And then on New York, New York with John Jastrzewski, he asked me and my buddy Jacko,

who's been on this podcast only a million times, to talk Red Sox-Yankees heading into, I can't call it a big series because it's really not. Neither team's in first place. The Yankees are pretty awful, pretty forgettable. They're a little over 500. Jacko hates watching them. So does JJ. They, pretty forgettable. They're a little over 500. Jacko hates watching them. So does JJ. They complained the whole time. I was like a pig and shit. So that's going up tonight. So I abbreviated this podcast. I've been doing, uh, you know, we, we've just done a lot of audio

the last few days. So we're going to keep this short and sweet. Syrit Sohi and Kyle Mann from The Ringer are going to pop on. We are taping this after, I repeat, after the two games tonight. Nuggets, Blazers, Lakers, Suns. Let's bring in Pearl Jam. Let's get going. I'm ready to talk some hoops. Alright, we're taping this. It is 1025 Pacific Time. I'm glad we waited. The Lakers are done.

They're out. They're finished. So are the Blazers. The West has fallen into place. I'm going to start here. Kyle, it's a new generation. I feel a video coming for you. You know, this happens sometimes.

I remember this happened with the Pierce T-Mac, Vince Carter, Iverson. All of a sudden, those guys were deep in the playoffs. It's like, oh, wow, this is happening. You know-Mac, Vince Carter, Iverson, all of a sudden those guys were deep in the playoffs. It's like, oh, wow, this is happening. You know, 2000, 2001 range. Luca, Booker, Jokic, Mitchell, Ben Simmons, Giannis, Trey, even Michael Porter Jr. This is a new wave of dudes that are coming in. Is this a sea change week for you, Kyle? It is. And I was thinking just a minute ago I was like it's pretty familiar theme for me personally right now that a theme of this playoffs

has been can the guy in his mid-30s not break down and continue to play basketball that's been kind of my struggle lately uh but yeah I mean it's been pretty it's pretty it's been pretty incredible to watch these guys answer the bell I mean like Trey has been sort of picked on, not that we want to launch into that whole thing, but I mean, Trey's been kind of picked on and criticized over time, and then he's just been masterful in the way he's navigated. The challenges are going to continue to go. But I was really impressed by the fact that Porter,

we were kind of texting about Porter was really impressed by the fact that, you know, Porter, we were kind of texting about, you know, Porter was really going. He has a tendency to kind of maybe overdo it a little bit and continue to hunt his shot, maybe being able to make bad choices. I was impressed by the restraint, even Booker in this game tonight. Like, he was really going. He had the chance to, you know, Kobe is one of his heroes, one of his idols. Interesting that he did this in Staples

tonight, but he even showed some self-control and not forcing it whenever the Lakers started to throw some different looks at him as the game went on. Yeah, there's a sense of belonging. Sarah, welcome to the podcast, by the way. Thank you. Yeah, you joined the ringer, I think, two weeks ago. Yeah. Yeah. So I guess before we get to the Lakers and just what the hell happened with them, I was shocked, A, by how great Booker was tonight. But then, B, like what Kyle said, there was this kind of eerie confidence to him.

He belonged. It wasn't like, oh my God, I'm chest pumping. I'm banging. I'm pointing to the crowd. It was just kind of like it. I felt like they thought they were really going to win this game convincingly. And then they just went out and did it. What'd you think?

Yeah, I think, I think that's exactly who Booker is. Um, I'm actually really happy for him that he's having this moment finally, because he's always had like that. It factor, right?

Uh, I think the superstar co-sign is a really big thing. The fact that lebron called him underrated this year chris paul says hey i want to go play with this guy like i like this guy he's always gotten it um i think he used to get it from kobe too and i think like there is something to that like those guys can see when a younger guy has that thing and he's always had incredible touch he's always worked really hard he's super skilled now he's always been pretty skilled but like it's all just coalescing and like he's on

he's been unguardable two days in a row yeah and probably i honestly like a little bit bold here but i think probably would have figured out some stuff against anthony davis as well was starting to yeah well you know it's funny you mentioned that because when we did, when I did those six podcasts with KD over the span of a year, I think even the first one I asked him, is there a young player that jumps out to you that you think has it? And he said, Booker and Booker, I think had been in the league for two years at that point, but he's like, there's that kid's got, got something and you could see it tonight. There was a Chris Paul playoff collapse kind of looming for a split second there where it was like all of a sudden the Lakers were down 11. They had the ball in the corner. I think Wesley Matthews took a terrible three. Um, but, uh, it just, it just

seemed like it was Booker's night. I think the thing that was interesting about his game tonight versus some other ones is he actually was taking a lot of threes and making them. I think what makes him unique in this era is he's not like a volume three point shooter. Kyle, have you done a video? You've done a video on him, right?

I can't remember. Not him specifically. I mean, I've talked about him numerous times, but you haven't broken down. Like he's got this weird old school, mostly two points and drives. But tonight when he's sitting in the three, he's, he's completely unstoppable if he's hitting threes like that.

Oh, yeah. He's got that old school. I call them slot scores. I mean, like those those wings in the 90s who would just set up shot shop like to the right or the left elbow and just kind of like work in that area. He has he had that game early on. I mean, he has a lot of that like shoulder fake stuff that he absolutely did not show at kentucky at all we don't have to go into that but i mean at least he did he didn't get the chance to but he uh yeah i mean just the

shot creation stuff um is it's always just been there and he and he has that just kind of unflappability uh to him like and i i think that that's something that a lot of the other players really respect about him is that i was cracking up about the fact that he just was repeatedly going at martin saul like throughout this series like one thing it annoys me sometimes when i go on to watch a game if i want to watch it like on my tablet or something and i get like the tNT overtime camera angles like I can't watch it but for like specifically for like chippy back and forth stuff those angles are great so if I see something brewing between players I'll go on there and just kind of watch and see if you can see little interactions he's just tough I think that I think

that's something uh I think that's something that players respect about him. Have you caught some, you know, just blowback? Like, what do you see? Oh, well, I mean, him and Gasol were just, like, chirping. I really, really noticed it a couple games ago. It was happening tonight. He was just attacking Gasol relentlessly, fearlessly. And, you know, we were talking about this with AD. I'm sure you'll want to talk more about this

because it's a big story from this game. But, like, he went at AD mercilessly immediately in this game confidently and it worked. Yeah, he did that. He went after AD like AD was the old guy in the pickup game. And I was I really thought it was brilliant because normally when these guys are hurt or they're playing hurt, you don't know how hurt they are. The other team will let them off the hook and let them kind of drift around for a quarter before they realize like, Oh, maybe we should go with this guy. The sons immediately were like, there's blood in the water. Let's go after him and basically blew him out of the game in three minutes. What were you expecting? Sarah,

were you expecting anything from him tonight? Cause I, I wanted to bet the sons and I was so scared of the, I just couldn't get a read on the Davis thing. There were the tweets beforehand. Shams had a tweet about he's going to play, he's good. And within three minutes it was over. Yeah, this actually kind of ended up being a worst case scenario for the Lakers because they prepared, I think at least one would think, thinking that they would have Davis and then weren't really ready for a game without him. Yeah. And then it just, I think you could have just hit the play button from game five after Davis was out.

It looked like that exact game for at least a quarter, maybe until the third quarter, really. And you could just tell they didn't have a plan. Like, you had LeBron trying to get post-ups. If you watch Game 5, like, all of the times that he really tried to post up there, they made it really tough for him. I think you need to point LeBron. They kind of got into it later,

but then they just couldn't hit shots. But, like, they just... Yeah, it just sucks, because if you think you're going to have him, I guess you're not going to go in that direction. But I just think, overall, this series, like, Vogel was really, really slow to have him, I guess you're not going to go in that direction. But I just think overall this series, Vogel was really, really slow to make adjustments and that really ended up biting them.

Yeah, I'm not sure why they thought they were getting like 35 minutes from Davis tonight with that specific injury. And who knows what the doctors were telling and stuff like that. But the thing that struck me once the game started playing out the way it did, I've never seen LeBron look more tired in a game. And this was the first time. And, you know, when he's got

his, you know, a hop to a step in the whole thing early in the game, he can have stretches where he turns it on. There's three different times during this game when he just asked out as the game was going on and when he just like stopped walking and just kind of turned toward his bench. And you, you're really feeling this guy's been in the league for 18 years. Next year is going to be year 19. He's played, you know, I, I don't even know what the total of regular season plus playoff games is, but you could feel it tonight because I think a couple of years ago, like 2018 LeBron could have put this team on his back and made something work. It's not like this lineup was any better or worse than the 2018 Cavs. I don't think physically he could do that.

I disagree. Who do you think was worse? Well, they just made way more sense for him. LeBron had no space in this game at all. He hasn't had space basically since AD's been out. Yeah. Like, those LeBron teams, like, for all of the follies that they had, at the end of the day, like, you could at least trust guys like Korver or George Hill to make shots

and actually, like, actually make it a really tough decision about what you're going to do with him. Like, the Lakers have kind of managed to pull off something that's very difficult to pull off with LeBron, not, like, making the decision for the defense easy, which it shouldn't be easy in any playoff series anymore. Like offenses have just really figured defenses out. And I think this was a series where like, like if I'm Monty Williams, I didn't really, as soon as AD got hurt, like the Suns just kind of had to watch and wait for it to happen. They didn't really need to make any adjustments at all. And, you know, if you're the Lakers, like you kind of figure some stuff out with some of the shooting later on,

but there just aren't those reliable guys. Like it's just an easy call every single time. We're going to crowd in on LeBron if it's going to be Caruso or Schroeder or this version of KCP or like, you know, you can, Marc Gasol can shoot, but he just doesn't shoot enough or you're going to play Drummond and then I guess, you know, you can, Marc Gasol can shoot, but he just doesn't shoot enough or you're going to play Drummond

and then I guess, you know, decide to go from playing, like really, really playing him to benching him completely, which I thought was interesting. But yeah, I just, I think those teams made so much more sense for him. Like there was just no way

that he was going to get off to a start like this. You could kind of see it in the first quarter. Like when they weren't making shots, I kind of felt like LeBron was like, okay, all right. If they're not making shots, we're not going to go anywhere. Yeah, I think it's sort of a cyclical thing. One feeds the other. I mean, like if LeBron doesn't have that, you know, you were talking about 2018,

the thing that he could just get to the rim at will and finish through anyone at any time. And in this series, I was making the point that even a year ago, he was slower, but he was still powering through people, getting all the way to the basket

and decelerating and you just couldn't do anything with him. I think that that affected the way people were playing the gaps and helping him because he wasn't

as explosive. You didn't have to dedicate and really hard double him as frequently. And I think that if he had had. And, you know, I, I think that if he had had that element to his game, I think that that would have helped the shooting. And I mean,

I think that that helped those Cleveland things too. And on AD, I was thinking back about like the thing that really just, you can't overstate this enough. I mean, just him not being there defensively. People always think about rim protection as like literally blocking shots, but it's,

it's a lot more than that. Like there's a huge radius bubble over the paint and AD's reach and his ability to like laterally shuffle and flip his hips really fast. That's his superpower. So when he has a groin strain and he can't shuffle his feet, he can't get off his feet quickly. He's, he's not the same player. And, and that really affected what, and then, you know, you were talking about Gasol having to sit down. It was really nice to see him run some of those, like, you know, those really nicely placed over the top touch passes, things like that. But on the other end, the sons were just attacking his foot speed, which has declined a ton in

the past two years. Um, there was just a lot of, uh, pick your poison and, uh, the Lakers ended up getting poisoned because there was just too much poison ultimately, um and the Lakers ended up getting poisoned because there was just too much poison ultimately not to be corny and like talk radio about it but it just became overwhelming and you could kind of see LeBron give up at some point he was just like I can't do this anymore yeah sometimes he gets that look on his face like he's he's he's got that supercomputer in his head and he's like pressing these formulas waiting for the result to come out and they're just,

the results aren't coming out and he's just like, you can see his brain like breaking. It's like, and he's just looking around and he can't solve it. I have a hot take. I think this Davis thing

was actually good for this Lakers team from the sense of now they have an excuse they can hold on to. I think they lose anyway. I thought they didn't have enough time together as a group. As Syrit said, the team didn't totally make sense. And you had these situations where it's like

Schroeder's out there, he's playing for a new contract. He was going rogue a lot. He was going rogue during the season. He was going rogue in this series. And there was a couple of times you could kind of see LeBron just kind of go, what the fuck with this guy? The Gasol Drummond,

Harold thing was just a quagmire. They never figured it out. It seemed like they must've made some promise to Drummond that he got to start. You know, if we sign you, you'll start for us. And then by this game, they just abandoned it by the second half.

And then the, the swing guys, like none of those guys came through. The Kuzma thing, Kuzma was just aggressively horrific tonight. And that was a guy they really banked on. They just never had that other guy. Sarah, was this a championship roster to you with a healthy Davis? You know, it's funny that you bring up Kuzma

because he's a guy that i think actually could have made some wholesale changes this season if they had used his used him a little bit more and actually just invested in him a little bit more it feels like they came into the season thinking like taylon horton tucker's gonna be the guy like you know wingspan king just you know and like i like taylon horton tucker and he probably can eventually be that guy but coming into this preseason I just remember thinking like man like Kuzma's really moving his feet then I heard like I heard you know that he was training with Draymond that he had really like been focusing on on trying to you know figure it out on the defensive end and I think he just came

into the season being like well no one really cares if I do or don't do anything it didn't really feel like it actually made that much of a difference in terms of his rotation minutes, like whether he did do the right thing or not. And then I think not featuring him in anything doesn't really make a lot of sense either, just because like he's a microwave guy. Like you can get him going sometimes if you use him. I understand that like, you know, you can be kind of anti stuff like that just because it's not that reliable in the long term. But like that can win you a game. Like, they needed somebody to step up this game. Like, he was horrible.

But I also just don't think, like, he's had any consistency for the last two years. It's like, I had, like, a very interesting run where I think he was, like, really overrated at first because he was overused. And now you think he's underrated because he's completely underused. I think, like, they could have gotten more out of him. They leaned on Schroeder a little bit too much and i think they really miss rondo like they really really miss rondo especially as soon as ad went out like they needed a setup guy for lebron especially in the post like he probably could have he probably could have bullied those guys a little bit more like i don't think mikhail bridges who like just has to be feeling by the way on top of the world after

doing this to lebron after everyone just told him he was too skinny forever. But I think, yeah, like I just, I think he could have helped out. They just didn't have enough playmaking. Like you can't have LeBron make the plays for himself. Like that was essentially kind of what happened in this series. I think Crowder is probably the single most excited guy because LeBron, they traded for him in the 17-18 season and LeBron had no use for him from the get-go and ended up, he got traded, I think, again,

three months later. And you could tell that it was not very friendly between these guys. Crowder got thrown out, and I actually rewound it to see what happened because it seemed like it was like a Booker, Crowder, Marcus Morris trash talk thing. But if you go back and watch it,

I'm sure it'll be online by the time we're done with this pod. Crowder was doing some sort of dance thing under the basket. He was doing this taunt dance. And the ref was like, you're out. And Crowder just sprinted off. That was what that whole sequence was because he was fucking with the Lakers.

Because I think he was still mad about that Game 3 thing when LeBron posted him up and the whole bench was standing and mimicking LeBron moves and all that. That seems like it was 100 years ago. It was three games ago. But the Lakers were just so overconfident and it was like watching the bully get punched.

You know? Yeah, what do you think happened to LeBron in the course of like two games honestly i think he realized he slowly was doing the calculus yeah that's what it seems like i mean i was really impressed with that official that he didn't crack i i've never seen a star do that to end a play i can't think of a star staring down an official like he did at the end of that there were like three straight possessions where like where they got to 15 seconds on the shot clock, and LeBron wasn't down yet.

It was close to that. Just really stared him down. That could have descended into total, total chaos. Another thing about there's a chess match that was going on that I think that the Suns, as much as we've talked about LeBron couldn't get it going, they missed AD, all those things were major factors. But on the flip side of it, I mean, there was a chess match going on off the ball that really made it difficult for the Lakers spot up players to get involved and to get into any kind of action.

And that was Mikael Bridges, when he wasn't on LeBbron did a really good job playing those passing lanes like on the other side of the ball and we were talking about that was causing them to be really stagnant in the first half and then bill you were talking about i mean do you think that they should have switched to the center thing earlier what do you all think about that yeah i definitely think they should have switched to it earlier like kind of what we were talking about um earlier is just vocal way too way too late with, with a lot of these adjustments, I think probably should have switched over to Gasol sooner rather than

later. And then, you know, Booker cooked him, but I think that's also a lot of that is make or miss. I think he realized after a while that he was going to get space. He's kind of figured out, like,

I feel like Chris Paul is like, just seeped himself into Booker's game. Like Booker now kind of knows exactly how much space he has, and that will just kill you in the pick and roll, especially if you combine that Chris Paul-esque ability to do that with the fact that he's so skilled. That's just really tough. But yeah, I think you probably get Morris in at the five earlier.

I think you probably should have gone point LeBron as well. Like maybe play him at the center and also put the ball in his hand. Point center LeBron. Yeah, exactly. That's what I was calling for when I was texting you two about that. I was like, I thought that was their only option. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. Okay. Exactly. Okay. Yeah, exactly. Like that's, that's the only thing they could have done. And I think maybe it goes back to the fact they thought they'd have AD, but you have to, I guess, be ready for some sort of contingency.

But honestly, though, nobody was hitting shots. They just don't have shooters and nobody was hitting shots. So really, what are you going to do? I can't think of who would have been the right four to put on the floor with him, which I guess honestly just gets to the larger Lakers issue. I'm really upset with myself. I choked on two things. A week before the playoffs,

I was convinced that the Suns could beat the Lakers. And I was adamant the Hawks were going to beat the Knicks. And then I saw some Randall stats. I got scared off the Hawks. And I watched that Anthony Davis game when he destroyed the Suns. And I wish I never saw it. If I hadn't seen it,

I watched that game. I was like, oh, they have no chance. He's, he's going to own them. I guess we should have known like this, this, that bubble season combined with the Lakers a little bit older, Davis is brittle anyway. Um, it just wasn't a slam dunk that to me that this team could have stayed healthy for two months. We're gonna take a quick break. I have a good Lakers stat for you. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too. You won't win the Super Bowl, but your fundraising will support mental health, suicide prevention, and prostate and testicular cancer research. And if you don't want to grow

a mustache, you can still walk or run 60 kilometers, host an event, or set your own goal and mow your own way. Do great things this November. Sign up now. Just search Movember. I have two Laker stats for you. The first one, defending champion first round exits just since 1980. The 80 Lakers, the 83 Sixers, 99 Spurs, 06 Heat, 2011 Mavs, and then the 2014 Spurs, who were an awesome team and got matched up against the Clippers the following year. This doesn't happen very often. Here's what's interesting to me. LeBron and Davis are on the books for 76.5 million next year. Kuzma and KCP are at 26 million. I'm already basically at the salary cap. That's before we know if Harrell's going to opt in at 10 million,

9.7, whatever that is. They have restricted free agents, THT and Caruso. There's not a lot of ways to make this team better. I know the Laker fans are going to be on the Lakers message board going, Oh, we're going to convince Toronto.

They'll give us Lowry sign and trade and we'll sign and trade Schroeder to them. And then we'll have Lowry. And that's like, they're going to be talking to themselves in that. That's fine. They're the Lakers. They pulled stuff off before. I don't see a lot of ways for this team to get better because I think, you know, the one way the mid-level is always the one way you can grab somebody. But I mean, Sarah,

the mid-level guys this year were jay crowder was probably the best one for the most part they've been incredibly disappointing thompson abaca harrell none of these guys really came through crowder was probably the best one right yeah i'd say so and also like the other thing is just they're gonna have to go into the bargain bin for some of some older guys continuously i think this is pretty much the way that they're going to have to go into the bargain bin for some older guys continuously. I think this is pretty much the way that they're going to have to replenish things. But a lot of those guys, they're not really going to give you what you need. I think you probably want somebody that can run with AD. I think, honestly, this is a time to kind of look at what you have and try to develop it.

Like Talon Horton Tucker, if he can actually be a real playmaker instead of, you know, he put it together for a half today. And I think that's good's that's good it's nice right but like it's not you know he isn't what he could have been but i also like it's kind of similar to the kuzma point where i just don't think that unless you fit exactly what they were doing they just didn't really put a lot of emphasis on on development like i think that's kind of part of the reason that they went out and got drummond he was a version of a guy that worked for them last year yeah and they never really bothered figuring out how to make it with make it work with Gasol if it was Schroeder or Alex Caruso those

guys had the ball anyway so yeah they were empowered and I think that they actually like that was that was smart you know like I think they actually did a pretty good job on Booker I think you know like small guards are a little bit pretty good job on Booker I think you know like small guards are a little bit undervalued right now and it's it's good to go out and get them but aside from that like I just don't really I don't really see how they work to like make things coalesce I don't think this roster is actually that bad outside of the fact that it needs some shooting which I think they can you know they can find some shooting I just don't think that they actually like

work to find out what they had. Well, and you also have the, what is year 19 LeBron look like? What does Davis look like now where he hasn't had any like major, major injuries, but there's just been a, there was some graphic I saw on ESPN today

where they, or it was FS1. They just had all the injuries he's had. And the whole screen was filled. And it was like four columns of injuries from like, you know, dislocated index finger all the way to groin thing. And it was just on and on and on. And, you know, some guys just are less durable than other guys. But Kyle, is this it?

Like they traded all these picks and they're basically saying, we're going to make a three-year run here, maybe four, but it's a little like the Celtics when they had KG and Ray and Pierce. And it was like, we know we have a three-year window. If you get lucky, maybe it's four, but that Celtics team, they somehow pulled out five, but it was really cause Derrick Rose got hurt, but it was really a three-year window. I would say this is a three-year window. They gave away a ton of picks. They did win a title, but maybe that's it. That might be where this ends. Yeah. I mean, if you go into a window like that and you say we can get one title, I mean, that's pretty good. The problem with playing

with LeBron, and this has just been the case since he came into the league, is that he's such a floor raiser that development is always really difficult when he is there because stylistically the way he plays. I mean, we're kind of seeing this a little bit with Luka, too. He definitely has the Billy Bean thing. Like, when I point to you, you talk. That's what it's like to play with LeBron. And that's the problem with like, we need to get these guys runway and open road

so that they can get the reps they need to grow. And even the guys that you were talking about, like Kyle Lowry, he's going to be turning if he's not 35 already. So that's the kind of the territory you get into is like dealing with these players and then like durability just starts to mount and then you're just really rolling the dice.

Can these guys continue to stay healthy? I mean, I guess the other thing is what if we, what if AD, like you were talking about his durability, what if AD comes back and just has like a monster career year? Like what, how old is AD now?

He's 20. He's in the range. I think he's 28. He's 28. I think. Cause we didn't get that this year because he was coming back from the bubble. I guess it's possible that maybe we get down on AD a little bit here and he could just come back and be super AD

and have an incredible year. That would be a big thing that would bridge the gap between some of these things. And then you just get lucky and hit on some value, kind of drink-stirring guards like Syrett was talking about, like the kind of players that Phoenix has a few of that they burned the Lakers with. So, I mean, it's a really tricky thread,

needle that they're trying to thread with this. I mean, there's always guys out there. Torrey Craig, for example, is a guy that was straight up just out there and two contenders let him go. And now he's another guy that's probably feeling... I thought you meant tonight he was just straight up out there on the court.

He was. He was out there on the court. He was. He was out there. He did. I was thinking Paul George to the Clippers set off this amazing chain of events that actually could decide this year's playoffs in a weird way because all of a sudden, out of nowhere, he's going to the Clippers with Kawhi.

They might be losing to Dallas tomorrow night. They're out. That also sends Westbrook to Houston and Chris Paul to OKC, but then eventually Chris Paul to Phoenix. So Paul George going to the Clippers lands Chris Paul in Phoenix eventually. But then it also, because Westbrook's in Houston, it makes harder to want to get the fuck out of Houston. And he ends up in Brooklyn. And as weird as this sounds, this Kawhi Paul George trade could end up knocking the Lakers out, the Clippers out, and then giving us a Brooklyn Phoenix finals. It's conceivable.

It's like the all-time fucking weirdo dominoes thing. But I really think that's in play now. Because, Siri, you're looking at the West. Now the Lakers are out. I just assumed the Lakers would get their shit together. It never happened. And we're down looking at Denver, Dallas or the Clippers, Phoenix, Utah. Those are the teams we have left. One of those teams are going to be in the finals. That's what has to happen. And I just look at that. I'm holy shit like like Luka could make the finals you look at that list you're like yeah he could get hot for two more series and and that's it like when

when I read those teams to you what's the one that jumps out probably Phoenix honestly I just think they're the most complete team and I also think like a win like this is just really big for a team that's never really been in this situation before. I mean, you can start with Booker, right? Booker kind of just proved that he is who he thinks he is. And I think that's big. Being able to go into your first ever first round series and you're going up against a guy who's like, you know, who's been kind of, like, patting you on the back. Like, I feel like LeBron and AD both have been kind of patting

Devin Booker on the back for a really long time. And then to be able to just own that series, like, not just, like, play well and show, hey, yeah, I do belong, but, like, have 47 points and not even care to chase 50 because, like, you're a fucking professional, you know? Like, that's that's really special and like i think he got to that place by the end of this series like he was solely

kind of building his way up as a playmaker and like you know kind of taking little crisp ball things and like you know there's a play where he just like i think the lakers were making a run and he was just like he screamed he was like no and then he drove down and just got a foul like it was just like okay like that's smart like you just know that you can control the pace of the game like that like he's kind of he's gotten to that place and I think this is just going to be a big confidence booster for him Mikael Bridges figured so much stuff about about his game this year like he's been super hot Crowder's been super hot Cam Johnson it's been a little bit more streaky but you know and Chris Paul obviously he's been there before Aiden man Aiden figuring out like

oh yeah I can actually what Aiden did to AD in game one is something that I bet he'll carry with him for a while because that was kind of the rub on him it's like is he gonna be inconsistent like is he too skinny is he you know gonna be able to hold up against AD are they gonna be games plays that he just takes off he didn't take off off any plays, I feel like, in this series. He made such a big step, and now he has to go against Jokic, who is probably going to win MVP, and he's going to get every call in the world. But having that in your back pocket and being as versatile as those guys are, they're also one of the only teams, other than the Clippers that I feel like while they rely on the three-point shot a lot they can also just get other shots with with Devin and Chris so I I'm I'm terrified of the Suns if I'm if I'm the West and I hope I

mean I'm I think I'm rooting for the Suns I think I'm rooting for the Suns I decided at halftime today that it was just really cool to see you know Chris Paul on this team maybe actually making the finals in a year we're like you know LeBron's out so that you know sucks for me personally um but it's I think I think this is best shot and it's actually really cool that we got this series too with with LeBron and him even though it was like at times I thought it was underwhelming I don't think I enjoyed it probably as much as you did, Bill. But it was really cool. And I think, you know, they probably have, I think they have the best shot from here.

I didn't enjoy it as much as you'd think because I had a couple, I had a Bucks-Lakers finals bet that went kaput at 13-1. I really didn't enjoy that part. I have a question for you. Yeah. Do you, like when you make those bets, are you thinking about them the entire season or do you just kind of like, is it like let's invest in some crypto and then just not think about it for five years?

No, I usually do like value. So I thought, I really thought the Bucs were the underrated value team heading into the playoffs. And I wanted to pair them with somebody as a finals team. And, you know, when we're making the bet, Davis seemed like he was 100%, and they seemed like the scariest team, and it seemed like the logical one to do.

I don't, I mean, you look at the, I didn't think Utah was going to do it. Denver and Dallas just didn't seem like they had the supporting cast in place. But now, I'll tell you, watching Denver and how unbelievable Jokic is. And I know we're going to talk about that game next. But, you know, they're way down in that Portland game.

And Jokic is just so goddamn good that he just single-handedly brought them back. He changed the pace of the game. He kind of broke Portland's brain with all the stuff he was doing. And I'm just going to be really fascinated to see how Phoenix tries to defend him because I'm not sure Ayton's the right guy, but either way, Jokic, it doesn't really matter who's on him, but I'm sure they'll send different people at him.

They're going to be doing all these different things. I don't think it matters. He just, he's like Luka. He solves everything. Kyle, what do you think of that matchup, Phoenix-Denver, just, gut reaction how that series goes. Well, I mean, aside from how it goes, I just cannot wait to watch it because it's going to be a blast.

But, I mean, in terms of how it goes, I don't know, man. I was thinking, because my gut reaction was like, well, you know, Denver, I don't know if they're going to be complete enough to go take them on, but it's like, they do, they have shot making. Jokic is just such a force to deal with. I could see that one going deep. I could see that one going six or seven games too. It could just be the, who's the best player in the series series. Sometimes that happens, right? Where it's like, yeah, all right. This is now Jokic versus Booker. Who's better? Because that's basically what Portland-Denver was. And Jokic and Lillard went toe-to-toe and toe-to-toe. And then finally, Lillard in the second half, he kind of tapped out. He just didn't have it anymore. And Jokic was still going, going, going. And that was it was hilarious to see Jokic like shift into all right I'm gonna take he just kind of put the game in a headlock and just was like okay we're gonna we're gonna play it a lot of things really broke favorably for them during that stretch I mean he the whistle was pretty good I'm

just gonna assume that Portland fans are gonna gripe about that um I mean he got a lot a lot of good calls something that really just jumps out that's different from this year to last year. I know the Nuggets went far last year, but it's really critically important that they have a guy who's as mobile and also as strong and can space the floor as well as Aaron Gordon does. I was looking up how they played the pick and roll in this series because that was the key thing. Portland really loves to dribble shoot out of the pick and roll in this series because that was the key that was the key thing because you know Portland really loves to dribble shoot out of the pick and roll and they can do it with McCollum and they can do it you know with with Dame obviously um you know they came up and blitzed Dame a ton I I on uh second spectrum to pull a KOC according to second spectrum uh 243 uh pick and rolls in

this and 67 times they they blitzed him to get it out of his hands. Normally that's going to cause chaos and put Jokic in like a terrible situation because he's in open space. But if you have a big, strong athlete who's quick like Gordon, who can like body fives and protect the rim a little bit, that helps a little bit. And that's kind of stemmed the tide and helped them kind of get over the hump. But yeah, it was to me, the interesting thing, the carryover is

that I was really impressed with the stasis and sort of the poise that Jokic, it seems to me like Denver has taken on his personality in terms of like, they just were calm. You know, you never felt like they were out over their skis towards the end of that game. They looked like a competent playoff team at the end of that game. Yeah, I mean, they were kind of calm in that. I feel like they were just like, yeah, we don't really need to try until the third quarter. It was a very like, I think there was a moment where Jokic just felt like,

ah, we can win this game. You know what I mean? It just felt like that the entire game. And they did get a lot of that second quarter was critical with uh Jokic coming back in and just basically getting to foul whoever he wanted because the refs didn't want to give him a third foul I thought I thought that was a really nice power move from him just knowing he's gonna win MVP pretty soon so yeah I can pull a little bit of LeBron um but I think he's gonna get tired tired, honestly, in the next series because he played every game this season.

I think he's pretty much the only high-level player to do that. And he's just got so much on him. This is a better defensive team. I feel like they're going to just get in passing lanes a lot more. I feel like they're going to create turnover issues. Then you get him in pick and roll with Booker and CP3. It's tough. It's tough. But back to the Blazers for a second.

One of the things I kept thinking about was just like, man, if the Blazers had Aaron Gordon, this would be a completely different series. And they've almost had him a couple of times. And it just sucks because like, you know that Portland's not going to look the same next year. But I was kind of going through like some of the things that they've done. And like, while they've made some mistakes, I don't think that there have been egregious errors by anybody on that in that front office. Aside from like, you could say that they haven't

been bold enough but you kind of look at what they've done and it's like well they just didn't necessarily have some of these trades break right for them is that collins drop was pretty bad but aside from that like i don't know what do you guys think portland's gonna look like next year and also like more than that like what can they really do to increase their ceiling at this point? Because I just don't see a move that's like, yeah, we're going to overhaul everything and things are going to be better here. Well, isn't the problem they kind of went all in last summer? Or I guess last October, since we didn't have a summer. But, you know, they traded two first rounders for Covington.

And that was the deal that was going to be Gordon. Right. So they basically tried to make their team in the offseason versus waiting to see how the actual season was going to shake out. And sometimes teams do that. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't.

But I've never been a huge fan of let's build my team now. And, you know, I think the Nets are a good example of they didn't try to do that in the offseason. let's build my team now. And, you know, I think the Nets are a good example of, they didn't try to do that in the off season. Now, granted, the Harden thing fell into their laps once he quit on Houston, but even it was almost like they were planning for the Blake Griffin type of person

that was going to come in. They didn't try to like panic sign that guy in the off season. And it felt like Portland tried to build their complete contender before the year, before kind of seeing how it would all go together. And I don't know. I mean, the center thing, would Zach Collins have made a difference? I don't feel like he would have.

What do you think, Kyle? If he's healthy, does he make a difference in this series? Probably not. I think Jokic would have sucked his brain out and drop kicked it into the state i mean it would have been like starship troopers like that yeah anyway yeah i mean i know i don't think that he would have made a big difference i mean i have i mean i have a little faith i i tend to optimistic on a lot of young players typically just to be nice but uh i mean as in that series, no. In the long term, I mean, I guess the question for them is like, who's, I mean, Jesus, they're going to pay Dame $54 million in 24-25. Who's

nailed down for them? Like who is in the future? I have an answer for that. Try to set you up for that. I have an answer, but let's take a break. Let's set some drama and then we'll come back. Yeah, so I hate to do it. He was even on my podcast and I was joking about how I put him in trade rumors every year. But I think the CJ McCollum stuff, I'm sorry, CJ. I think it's going to start again. I don't know.

You know, Dame's 30. They're not trading Dame. I have Knicks fans in my life who are like, oh yeah, Dame time. It's like. They're not trading Dame. I have Knicks fans in my life who are like, oh yeah, Dame time. It's like, you're not getting Dame. Settle down. I don't think Dame gets traded, but you know,

if you're just looking at who would get traded on that team, they don't really have a lot of assets. You know, Covington just gets passed around like a Yankee Christmas swap gift. He's, I don't know how many teams he's been on at this point. Simons, I don't know how many teams he's been on at this point. Simons, I don't feel like has trade value.

And, but CJ does. And, you know, it makes sense if you think about like, could they get, you know, somebody who's different than just having two guards? Like, could it be, is there an Indiana matchup?

Stuff like that. I don't know. I haven't gone through the trade machine, but I would assume if they're trading CJ, which I don't even know if that's a good idea, they would want somebody who has some size. In my head, I was wondering like a Sabonis CJ. I think Sabonis has more value than CJ,

but something like that, that's the kind of trade you would have to think about if you're thinking about moving him. Yeah, there might be. But I mean, what team is Kawhi on next year? Tomorrow night, we could have the Mavs winning in six and then the Kawhi sweepstakes are on. Is Kawhi going to leave LA?

I don't know. It feels... I'm prepared for anything. We've learned over the last 10 years that everything's on the table at all times, right? Like LeBron went back to Cleveland in 2014, wrote that SI piece. I'm back.

I'm going to retire here. It's time to build something in Ohio. Blah, blah, blah. He was gone in four years. We just know over and over again. I never thought Harden was going to leave Houston. He loved it there. So I don't, I just never assume I do. Do you, would you bet your life? Luca's going to stay in Dallas for 15 years? Sir, what do you think? Curry's Curry's like the only one I would bet will never leave his team

I just don't think he ever leaves he's the only one everyone else I would believe they're going to leave it's just a different era you know you were talking back about like there's like dissonance for me between like Sabonis and Nurkic

the thing the problem the inherent problem is you just kind of look at the balance of their big three here, very loosely using the term big three. You look at Lillard McCollum. Those are two guys who are pretty much score first, not naturally playmaking-inclined players. So when you have that, you try to put a fulcrum screener playmaker in between them, and that's Nurkic. It's like,

well, I don't think you could place a bonus in Nurkic together. So I just think that's kind of the problem for them. And I mean, I was thinking back about like I made a Blazers video like two years ago where I was thinking about how they could get aggressive. There was a time where Simons was an intriguing player because he was this sort of volatile proposition where people were like, this guy could be a star. And the same thing with Zach Collins, but that time has passed. So they're kind of in a corner now in that sense.

Sarah, there's no way Dane blockbuster trade happens, right? I mean, he'd have to demand it, I would think, right? Do you know how many first round exits he's had in the last five years? I think it's four of the last five years right yes yeah i mean i feel like we've been watching the same movie with the blazers for so long it's just like dame time will either get them out of the first round or or it won't like he's either going to make or miss those shots and that's essentially what the blazers are it's so hard to come up with a good CJ trade, though. And I think this is essentially like kind of what happens every single time we have this conversation every year.

I'm sorry, CJ. I really am. I didn't mean to bring it up. I just it's hard to find a deal that actually makes them better without them having to take on some sort of risk. And I think that if you look back at some of the decisions they haven't made, like you can kind of give them credit and say, Hey,

like maybe it was good that they didn't trade TJ for DeMarcus cousins. Like that was on the table very seriously for a little while. And everybody was like, that needs to happen. It would really balance out their roster, which it would have briefly. we don't, but we do not this merge De Cousins in my presence.

I just want to put that out there. Oh, we'll be there. You could besmirch away. Yeah, that's terrible. Come on, Kyle. I know. I'm just being loyal. Come on, Kyle. Put your DeMarcus jersey away. What about Sacramento?

Is there a little buddy-heeled Marvin Bagley? See, I never am the two quarters for a dollar type trade. Buddy Heald is probably 50 cents. That's a 75 cents a dollar. But do you try to do a two for one? I don't know. Not for Bagley.

Neither one of those guys solve their problems. Yeah, I think you need defense and you need playmaking. I don't know where you get that. That's just why it's so hard to make trades. That's what everybody wants. I mean, it's what you know, it's what makes good offense. That's what every team wants. So those guys are hard to get.

Can we do a thought exercise? Oh. Draymond going to Portland? With CJ? Oh, that's CJ I don't know if I'd be buying on Draymond these days when he is having two point games pretty routinely not for CJ I think like what if you tried to put together like all of the assets that they have remaining it's probably just not enough because they just don't have a lot but yeah yeah they probably can't get him they need that type of

player though like they need you can probably get a look a guy at a lower price that can do some of those things and i mean like some of these guys have just been kind of popping up like if they had like a jashon tate even a bruce Brown type of player just kind of pop up for them, that would, you know, be lovely. And they're kind of out there, I guess. But yeah, it just, it's tough to think of, it's tough to think about a trade that actually makes them better.

Let's do the slot exercise. I was just trying to think like, all right, if Dame actually gets traded, is it a one for one? Because we've had those in NBA history, right? Where it's like the kid for- You really want to talk about a Dame trade. Well, I'm just saying like, he's 30 years old.

They are not able to build a team around him that can effectively contend. I personally would not trade him unless I got one of the other 10 guys who matter in the league. I'm not doing like a, oh, give me a bunch of draft picks so I can keep my job for seven years. I'm not doing a two for one. I need to get one of the other superstars back. And I don't think any of those guys are available.

So the only way he goes is if he says, it's time. I'm ready to go. We gave this an awesome run. I've been here almost a decade. I'm no closer to a title than I was six years ago. And send me somewhere. And I just,

if I'm Portland, unless I'm getting one of the other great players in the league back, I'm not doing it. Look at what happened to Houston. Houston traded one of the main chess pieces in the league and got nothing back that I can point to, you know? So I don't know what they do. You know, Portland isn't obligated to trade

as poorly as Houston did, you know? I think that- Fair. Would probably be part of it. You can get some stuff back for a star. I think Portland could probably drive a reasonably tough bargain just because of what Dame has meant to them.

I just don't, like, at this point, can you not, can you say no to a superstar trade demand? I don't think you can, especially if you're Portland. I don't think you could say no to Dame. And it's way far ahead. I don't think he's going to make a trade request. I don't think you can, especially if you're Portland. I don't think you could say no to Dame. And it's way far ahead. I don't think he's going to make a trade request.

I don't think he will either. Yeah, I just, he would have done it by now, I would think. Or he just, he did, there was that Chris Haynes article that I thought was

a mild, mild, mild red flag that was just like, it was just floated out there. And then Dame was like, look, I didn't tell Chris to write that, but it was a thing that happened for a day. And it warrants mentioning. Yeah, that was interesting.

I think, you know, I think... There's a trait you want to tell us you just won't do it i can tell yeah yeah hey kyle you seem burdened with something you want to spit out yeah no i just i'm gonna ask kyle a question while you decide whether you want to say it or not uh what do you think new gm new portland gm danny ange is gonna do kyle i well i mean based on what we described before it's a tough place to i the bottleneck not make Danny Ainge is going to do, Kyle. Well, I mean, based on what we described before, it's a tough place to...

The bottleneck... Not make any trades. Yeah, well, I think the bottleneck is in the issue that they gave him a contract that is,

you know, gigantic. And you're not going to get a one-for-one trade because the problem is that they are valuing him differently because they want to keep him there. So they're paying him all that money, but the rest of the league,

I don't think that you can put Dame in the same conversation as some of these other like tectonic offensive pieces that can like, you can, the problem with Dame is that like, like I was just describing is that like, he's not like a guy like that is going to carry a huge playmaking load. And I think that's the difference between him and like a luca a yokich a lebron um a harden these guys that can can really just be

an offensive piece that you you plug things into he like he really makes your options narrow so i mean you would have to depend on trading him for multiple pieces and And then you'd have to find somebody that would have them. And it's just, it just is really, it just doesn't add up because of the numbers because of, you know, their, their value is different than,

than other people. Yeah. It really does feel like the Knicks are the best option there. I was going to say, who are the next one? No, my Knicks fan friends, believe me,

there's been a couple of my life who are like, all right, you're telling me RJ Barrett are two firsts this year. And then just first pick swaps for the rest of the decade. The Blazers are saying no. I'm like, I don't know. I mean, they do really need to replenish their pick stock. Yeah.

Like, I don't think they can trade anything until 20, until 2027. I'm on the record. I'm not trading. If I have one of the, you know, every year there's seven guys that matter. There's nine guys that matters. 11 guys that matter this year. We had an inordinate amount of guys that matter. It's like 11. I'm just not trading one of those guys unless I'm getting an awesome trade back. I don't care about like these future picks and stuff. Like it was one thing when, um, you know,

when, when, um, Davis was basically like, I'm going to LA in a year or you can trade me now. And New Orleans like, all right. And they just try to grab as many assets as possible when you're, when you're basically being extorted.

That's one thing. Um, but I, I don't think Portland should trade Dame unless he basically throws a tantrum but i i don't think portland should trade dame unless he basically throws a tantrum and i don't think he's that kind of guy i don't think he will i think it's also i mean we just watched a whole bunch of dame time and like not to get overly sentimental here but you know i'm sure the city of portland feels pretty romantic about him and doesn't want to just give him up for no reason and and has had amazing memories with him and will continue to like you know I think that's

kind of the deal that that Dame has made like he has decided that he is going to be this guy and you know I'd love to see him kind of get his Dirk championship where like one year things just break the right way for for them finally the the only problem I have with it is that seems to be kind of like what they hope for as well like I just don't see them building a team that says hey we're gonna contend for a championship like I've I I give them some leeway because they've had some they've they've tried and they've had some tough spots and like they there aren't a lot of good trade trades out there for them uh but you know like you watch these games and it's like michael porter jr is the one guy that that goes off and

you've got cj guarding him and it's like well that's the worst thing that you can do because he can shoot over anybody and then you got dame guarding him and it's just it's just not enough. Signing Melo to me is kind of like, he's the benchmark, right? If you can contend right now, that means that you probably also can't be giving Carmelo Anthony rotation minutes. It's kind of one or the other. And that's like, not to say I'm not trying to, you know, like he's carved out a role for himself, I guess. Right. But like, wait, so you're saying you shouldn't be able to have one. He shouldn't like not on a team that actually says like, yeah, we were serious. We want to make the finals. Like there's a reason he's not on.

You wouldn't want him guarding the MVP, Nikola Jokic in a double overtime game. Yeah. No, I just not not the guy that I'd bring over for doubles. Not exactly fleet of foot these days. Yeah. Yeah, no, I just, not the guy that I'd bring over for doubles either. Not exactly fleet of foot these days. Yeah, yeah. No, no. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, they're just not trying,

they don't seem like they're trying to go for that. It seems like that's what they're hoping for too. And that's where I think that Dame can put some pressure on the organization. He should put some pressure on

and say, hey, be as serious as I am. I loved when Sarah just went Canadian on us on the organization. You should put some pressure on and say, hey, be as serious as I am. I loved when Sarah just went Canadian on us and said organization. That was the highlight of the pod for me. Can I ask you all a question? Go ahead, Kyle. I was going to ask you,

you mentioned the Dirk thing. I'm sure this has been brought up by somebody, but is there 2011 Mavs energy with this Nuggets team just a little bit? I mean, you think about, like, you got the guy, I don't know. Are we seeing that at all? It could break, right? I mean, there are a lot of things.

I mean, they'd have to have, like. I don't know if they have the defenders, but I'm going to say something controversial. I actually think Jokic, the level he's at now, is even higher than where Dirk was 10 years ago, just because his ability... Dirk made other people better just because his offense was so great at scoring.

But Jokic is creating baskets for dudes who just aren't very good. That Mavs team, Terry was a really good offensive player. He wasn't quite an all-star, but he was good. Chandler and Marion were unbelievable defensive players at that point. Um, Denver just doesn't have guys like that. What I thought was interesting about them today. Did you notice how they played that kind of tall lineup where it was like green and then they had Gordon and Porter together and they just kind of went with length and it really bothered Portland in a lot of ways.

And I was thinking like this next round with Phoenix, I actually think that could be a lineup we could see. And my point is like Dallas was a little malleable with that stuff. So I think you might be onto something. Like, I don't know if they have the veteran piece, but they do have the malleability and they do have the fantastic offensive player.

And by the way, it's one of those seasons where the West is wide open. What do you think, Sarah? Yeah, I think, I think Jokic gives them a chance no matter what, because like what you've seen him do with Jamala,

like he's done this all season, you know, he's just been the most consistent player in the league because like, it's what you said, Bill, like he just makes plays for others. You've kind of seen him just vacuum up all of what Jamal Murray leaves behind and just like, I'm going to give a little bit to Monte Morris

and here's a little bit for MPJ. I think that he can just kind of like, he's still figuring out Gordon too. They haven't really actually, they click well and they connect because gordon is just such a big guy and he's so easy to find he cuts well but they don't really know each other yet right um and i think he's still actually getting to know mpj i feel like he has like a he has like a love-hate relationship with him it feels like i feel like sometimes he just gets very annoyed at him and other times just like you know what it's nice that i I have this very tall guy that has incredible touch on my team

when I happen to be the best quarterback in the NBA. Sorry, what were you saying? I was just going to chime in there. They are wired totally differently.

And I actually think that MPJ should try to stay with Jokic as long as he possibly can because I think that they balance each other perfectly. He's a perfect player.

And also, now it's taken off some of the defensive pressure on MPJ to figure things out, which I actually think he will. I think that he's way smarter than people give him credit for. He just clearly doesn't have command with his body yet. I think it's probably all the time that he's been hurt. I feel like he just goes outside of his body sometimes. And he'll get there. But yeah, I feel like he just goes outside of his body sometimes. And he'll get there.

But yeah, like, I think like that's a growth point, you know, like he's had a great two games here. I think he can continue to find more stuff in his game. Like kind of like, you know,

with a heat with Tyler hero last year, like they just kind of continue to find new things. A series went on, like he's, he's definitely a candidate for something like that. And like, I don't, I don't know, Bill, I don't even think it's that controversial to say that, series went on like he's he's definitely a candidate for something like that and like I don't know Bill I don't even think it's that controversial to say that that Jokic is better than Dirk was 10 years ago I mean this guy is incredible he's just breaking offensive charts

everywhere and he's like he doesn't need anything he just makes everything better for everyone around him he's like the Steph Curry of centers like needs to hold the ball for like two seconds just sets like screen after screen after screen. Like watching him in the middle is so funny because he's just like, he's just turning around in different areas. Like he's hardly ever at the three point line until there's actually a screen that he likes, but like,

yeah, he's just, he can kind of just replenish whatever it is that Denver's missing. But like, it's kind of interesting, like bringing up the 2011 Mavs, because I feel like every team that's remaining should think that they can be like the 2011 Mavs. Because like Dallas definitely is the other one that the 2021 Dallas, that's the other

one that's like, all right, hey, we did this 10 years ago. Let's let's let's run it back. Just shooters, zone defense, and just somebody on a historical run. Denver can do that. Dallas can do that. I think, like I said, I think the Suns are probably the best candidate to do that. But yeah, I mean, there are a lot of streaky teams left over with a lot of smart guys that can... I think these teams are kind of suited to guard each other too with the remaining guys left. It was so funny that Mavs clips game four, the Mavs are getting blown out. And they threw out Porzingis and Boban together.

And I was watching it. I don't even know why I was still watching. The game was over. And I was like, hmm I don't even know why I was still watching the game was over. And I was like, Hmm, kind of like this, that, you know,

I, I always said this with the Celtics with taco, like sometimes when it's not working, just get weird, throw weird people out there, throw tall guys together and just get weird for a second. And then all of a sudden they started game five that way. And it was actually, they must've run some analytics thing

and they were like, hey, this is weird, but it kind of works. And it makes, it screws the Coopers up for whatever reason. Kyle, it's almost 1130 at night. I think you're officially groggy enough to ask this question. Why didn't the refs fix the game tonight for the Lakers?

Do you think David Stern, do you think David Stern, if he, if he'd been alive, do you think LeBron would have shot 30 free throws today? This is an interesting thing you're doing here because this is a question you want to answer and riff on, but you're throwing it to me.

I was so disappointed. There was one stretch where they called the Lakers for like 4,000 in a row and I'm like, what is happening? It really did have that vibe. What happened on that play where LeBron like, did Crowder just straight up just like bear hug him,

stuff him? Because it looked maybe it's just my eyes just aren't used to seeing that happen to lebron like it just kind of was like oh hercules isn't isn't immortal it's like he's like i can never tell if he's getting fouled or if he's just missing layups anymore yeah there i don't know i don't know how hurt he was and may we'll probably find out after that he was playing with like a torn ligament in his ankle or something, but I'm sure we will. He, whether it's ever proven, we'll never know. But, um, there were moments where he reminded me of when Carl Malone started to get old, but still looked exactly like Carl Malone

and was still just as strong and, and as explosive. But then there would be these moments where he looked a little more mechanical and you're like, oh, that's because you've been in the league for 18 years. There are moments when LeBron just seemed kind of stiff. People can't see I'm moving my body like he just was. He used to be more fluid. I mean, again, he's 35 years old. He's been playing for two decades now. But there's like Jay Crowder is not stuffing him seven years ago.

It's not happening. Oh, no. Oh, he wasn't stuffing him less than a year ago in the bubble right like if i think if you want a benchmark for how different he looks it's just how much more jay jay crowder has an actual handle on him great point it's kind of it's kind of crazy what how different it is and like that's kind of why i feel like it might be okay you know like he just probably needs a break i wonder i mean the olympics are in about seven weeks he's probably going to the olympics right is he you think so i i don't think any of these guys are going money really lebron lebron's a responsible corporate partner for the for the league especially with like all the COVID risk and all that discussion I don't know it's it's it seems like a dicey thing I haven't really followed I think that team's gonna be I guess there's always

that question of like are the Olympics actually gonna happen that is you know hovering above all of this but I don't know I just I feel like LeBron's kind of, has he said anything about it? I don't, I think our team's going to be like Isaiah Thomas and people who, Robbie Hummel. Yeah. Yeah. All those people. It's what's going to happen.

Can we do quick predictions? And then we'll go for, for Kyle just passes out on the zoom. Kyle, what a trooper. Both of you staying up late. I'm hitting my second wind here. I'm doing okay.

Dealing with my daughter interrupting us by getting food. The predictions. Gun to your head. What happens in Dallas Clips? I feel like the Clips are going to get the next one. I don't know. I just have this feeling that they're going to. Syrit is smiling.

Bill shook his head. Was that a double disagree? No. It's just really dangerous to give Luka these shooters two games. I don't know which one it's going to be. That's a really good point. Yeah, that's a really good point. I mean, he's made his I've seen a lot of people say it.

He's made his kind of submission for best player in the world right now. So. I mean, he's made his, I've seen a lot of people say it, he's made his kind of submission for like best player in the world right now. So, I mean, betting against him is, and I don't even know why I would do that. I just kind of feel like at Michael Seven, I could see them doing it. Like I think what you said is true. I think the volatility of their shooting and you just let him, Luka is, I was thinking about Luka and Jokic have this in common. They're like those kids

in that Rubik's Cube documentary. They can just inherently solve it with their offhand. They just feel basketball so fluidly like that. I don't know. I kind of have this feeling like the Clippers will get the next one,

and then Game 7, I'll just lean Luka because I'd like to see it happen. I could... The Clippers are the kind of team that will win game six and puff their chests out and then blow game seven at home by like 22. That would be my prediction.

That would be the Clipper-iest ending to this whole thing. I do think Luka's, I mean, it's not rocket science. He's the best player in the series. And if he didn't get hurt in game three, I think this series would be over already. They have no answer for him. They haven't figured it out yet. And even in the fourth quarter,

game five, he sucked. He was bad in the fourth quarter for him. He took bad shots. But he had done so much damage to them already, the Clips couldn't recover. So I'm going with Dallas. What do you have, Sarah? Yeah, I'm going with Dallas. I agree with you, Syrit? Yeah, I'm going with Dallas.

I agree with you. They haven't found an answer to him at all. And like, I just don't think, you know, unless it's like Kawhi and PG deciding to trap him all game, like there's just no tenable solution. You just have to hope they miss shots. Phoenix, Denver.

We know Syrit's just ready to put on a Suns jersey at this point. So I have you marked down for Phoenix what do you have Kyle? I think I'll go Phoenix too I think that this one

could go six or seven as well I think it could be a really competitive series for the reasons that you all said I don't know

it'll be interesting to see if we get another like major I think they're going to need more MPJ outbursts in this matchup than they did in the last round. They could kind of sprinkle them in here. They might

give him a little more open road in Austin Rivers. We'll see. I'll lean Phoenix in that matchup as well. I'm glad you brought that up because I think Denver wins if Porter keeps going up

like what we even just saw in this series there were stuff he was doing in this series that for the first time made me think like oh shit this guy's gonna be in multiple all-star games there was just really really advanced high high level

athletic stuff and scoring touch and energy um, and energy. Remember when we were worried about what would he be happy being basically the sidekick for Yoke age? Was he going to be cool with that? Um, he's in, he's, he's all in, he knows exactly what his role is. And I gotta be honest, like the Ewing theory committee is, we do have Jamal Murray's resume. We are looking at it wondering, you know, is, is, are we going to be adding Jamal Murray to the, to the great vaunted viewing theory history? I have this weird feeling Denver is going to win this series. I am staying away. I'm not betting

the series. I don't know what to make of it. I want to watch a couple of games. I want to see how Jokic looks, but I do wonder if this is just the best player in the series series. And it's hard for me to go against Jokic. Siri, you're taking the Suns. Okay. Milwaukee, Brooklyn. So on FanDuel, Milwaukee is a plus 160 underdog, which I was surprised by because I think this is a pretty even series.

Brooklyn, who, Milwaukee has home court. No, Brooklyn has home court. I'm not sure that really matters. I think Milwaukee is going to win. I think Milwaukee is going to make the finals and I think Milwaukee is the best team in the league. I don't know if that means they're going to win. I think Milwaukee is going to make the finals. And I think Milwaukee is the best team in the league. I don't know if that means they're going to win the title, but I just like this matchup for them.

And I think Brooklyn playing that shit Celtics team made them look fantastic. And I think through some people off the scent of what it's going to be like when they play a real team, I think people just in their heads now are like, Oh my God, unstoppable. They're going to score 140 points a game. There's some issues with Brooklyn that I think Milwaukee can expose. They're going to have real rim protection. They're going to have big guys to throw at them. This is, to me, the ultimate Drew Holiday series. This is why he exists on the earth, to be in this series, floating between Harden and Kyrie, to have guys to throw a KD. And I just think Milwaukee is going to win.

What do you think, Sarah? Oh, man, I think this is like a James Harden legacy series. First of all, we finally get Harden versus Giannis, which I got to gotta say the one thing with player movement that I really love is that we just got Chris Paul versus LeBron never thought we'd get that now we're getting Harden versus Giannis which is not really something that I think was in the realm of possibility before this so super excited for that but I mean I've I've spent so much time thinking about this series a because I just need to do a mea culpa on the Bucs. I picked the Heat to beat them.

I thought Bam was going to be just so much better than he was. Obviously, we don't have to talk about that series, but the Bucs defense just obliterated them. And I just wonder if... I think maybe a similar sort of thing might be happening where they just made the Heat look so bad that they look unstoppable. The Heat couldn't really hit any shots. They weren't getting anything out of their superstars, and they just didn't really have spacing. I think a good barometer is just going to be how well Blake Griffin plays.

If they can find a way to actually get the lobs going up, we could see a real series, but I think they're probably going to pack the paint and it's going to come down to making shots. Because the other thing is, Brooklyn's defense isn't that bad when they take the ball out of the basket. They're fine.

So if they can hit shots and just get back and just not let Yanis get out in transition which is obviously like a huge huge challenge especially like with the way the way that those guys generate steals um yeah just execute your offense hit your shots and I think the Nets probably pull it out but it really is just going to be like I know it's a cop out but it's it's one of those make or miss series for me. I just think that the potential for a weird feedback loop to get going is so high.

You know, when we hired Sarah, she promised us she'd never say it was a make or miss league. So I feel like I'm misled. Betrayed. My feelings are hurt. I don't know. We'll try to get past it. That was a cop-out.

You didn't make a pick. I don't know what just happened. I did cop-out. Yeah.. That was a cop-out. You didn't make a pick. I don't know what just happened. I did cop-out. Yeah. That was a total cop-out. You're just rattled because you took Miami. You don't want to get burned again. I am.

I am. Well, I'm doing that thing where I'm like, I still kind of believe the things that I believe about the Bucs, but I was so wrong that now I'm doubting myself. All right. You're taking Brooklyn. I'm penciling in for Brooklyn. I'm taking Brooklyn.

All right. I'm taking Brooklyn. Kyle, what do you got? I mean, the back and forth you just described, if it comes down to just shot making, well, newsflash, everybody. Brooklyn's got three of the best shot makers literally ever on the roster. So, I mean, well, in the league, too. So it's like one to the other there. But they have three great ISO defenders, too.

Yeah. That's kind of what makes it so exciting. You're right. I mean, it's pretty wild that they have, you know,, too. Yeah. That's kind of what makes it so exciting. You're right. I mean, it's pretty wild that they have Blake just kind of lurking there. And the energy is going to be really high in this series. And there is also the thing where it's like we talked about this, Bill, that the Milwaukee thing is that they really just had – they found a key sort of thing that they can manipulate with Miami that they didn't realize a year ago.

And that was like playing back off of Bam, which like just totally disrupted Miami's offense. Yeah. And you couple that with how well they were playing. And I think that it gave a little, we were just leaning a little hard on how good Milwaukee looks. I think they look fantastic. I'm just saying in terms of how it colors, what we think going forward, I have a hard

time betting against Brooklyn's guys because they have multiple guys that have been there. You know, and also not that it's a cliche, but I lean towards Brooklyn on this one. I've been leaning a lot in this, just kind of in the breeze, but I'll go Brooklyn in six just to be wild and make a pick. I think Brooklyn, they got a lot of talent. It's hard to bet against them. I think it could be kind of a barometer for where the NBA is at right now in terms of just skill versus defense as well. Like if there's, the refs are actually going to be a really big factor in this series.

Like if they just let, you know, Giannis slap around KD a little bit, if they let them get physical, if they don't give hard in every single call if they don't get them in the bonus early I just think that's it's a much more winnable series for Milwaukee but it really just comes down to like what kind of what kind of reffing are you going to get and also like how aggressive are the Nets going to be like one of the problems that they ran into in in the Boston series not a lot problems, but they just got complacent sometimes with their shots.

And then Boston could get it going. So again, I guess it just comes down to offense. But yeah, it's going to be... I feel like it could really be a referendum on defense in general. If those guys beat that defensive team, and we know that... Yeah, I think they'll play reasonable defense.

I think KD's going to get up for it. Harden, you can put him in certain spots. You try to hide Kyrie. But I think they'll figure it out a little bit more on defense. But if they actually just win this series scoring, I just kind of wonder what we're going to think about the idea of building a defensive-minded team anymore. That it's just dead.

My biggest fear with Pickham Milwaukee. And I really do think, I think they can win. And I really do think they're going to win, but the foul shooting really makes me nervous where Brooklyn never misses free throws ever. I've never seen anything like it. And that's Celtics series. Like they were in one of the games, they were 26 for 26 at one point. And then Milwaukee has the opposite thing where it's like in the last four minutes of a game, I just feel like Giannis is going to miss every free throw it takes. So my fear is these close games where it's coming down to Giannis going one for two and then Brooklyn just never missing. And then as soon as they're up two, it feels like the game's over because you can't foul. And even Joe Harris is another one.

It's just, it's one of the best free throw shooting teams I've ever seen. So I'm tentatively picking Milwaukee. It's probably the most skilled team of all time. Yeah. Last one, Atlanta, Philly. I'll go first. I have Atlanta. I think they're winning.

This Embiid thing is nuts to me. It's a torn meniscus and they're like, he's day to day. I've never in my life seen a torn meniscus. That was day to day. It's a three week injury or you get it fixed. And regardless, I just think Atlanta is going to beat him. And I think they have a lot of offense. If Embiid was playing and he was healthy,

there is no way in a million years I would take Atlanta. But you're removing not only Embiid's offense, but the rim protection. And now Dwight Howard becomes really, really important because if he's not protecting the rim, Trae Young's going to do the same thing he did to the Knicks. And I think Trae, I just feel like he figured it out over the last two months and that team's going to score points. And I just like the matchup for them. They're plus 154 on FanDuel to win this series and I think that like I think they could win in like five or six what do you think Kyle

I mean Embiid is just it makes such a colossal difference I mean if he's there I think it's pretty obvious I'm taking Sixers but I mean the Sixers do have some you know more high quality a higher number of high-quality individual defenders. The Knicks defended well as a team through the regular season. They didn't really know what to do. Trey broke them in that series. But Ty will be in there, will help, but he's one guy. And he can't shoot.

Yes. And Simmons doesn't want to shoot. So if you're playing those two guys together, I'm now three on five offensively. But Atlanta isn't rigid in that sense either. That's why they went and got those guys. You got Herter and you've got Bogdanovich that can go out there and run pick and roll

and spot up too. So they're a very flexible team in that sense. And if Embiid's not out there, I mean, yeah, I could see the Hawks winning this series. I think Atlanta's legit good. Their records, I think, for the last 45 or 46 games are exactly the same. So what do you have, Sarah?

I don't want to count on Philly just yet. I think that they could find some small ball, switchy lineup that just doesn't let anybody get into the paint. Thibault, Simmons together and and shooters and just run and defend and hope that you make your shots I think they're just gonna give I think they'll give more pick and roll problems to Trey than the Knicks were able to like the Knicks really didn't change their schemes a lot and like it was pretty clear by like you know game game zero that like Reggie Poulet couldn't couldn't guard Trey Young and like it was pretty clear by like you know game game zero that like reggie

pullett couldn't couldn't guard trey young and like that was just never remedied i just i think philly just has way more guys to throw at him i think they can actually bother the fact that he's small in a way that that uh the knicks couldn't because they're just like they're a much better scramble team. But I think ultimately I'm going to lean with the Hawks here just because I know what they are now, and I just don't know what the Sixers look like without Embiid, and I don't know who closes for them. That's really the biggest thing with the Sixers right now is can Tobias kind of step up and be that guy?

I don't really want him going toe-to-toe with Trey Young. I think that's, you know, he's a little bit overmatched there. So I think ultimately, yeah, it's the Hawks and Six. They have a lot of guys to throw at Tobias too. You know, like Washington did not, and he was still, you know, up and down. The Milwaukee-Atlanta parlay is something like four and a half to one, up and down. The Milwaukee-Atlanta parlay is something like four and a half to one,

something like that. I might be dabbling in that. Were you just looking at that? Yeah, I'm checking that out. The Knicks weren't really in as good with their lack of creators, which is a huge problem for them going forward. They weren't really in a position

to pick on Trey as a defender either. Yeah. So, I mean, that's another thing too that the Sixers have some more options in that sense. So that's going to be a factor, too. I honestly didn't know how that wasn't a bigger factor in that Knicks-Hawks series. The Knicks were asleep at the wheel on that.

But the thing is, like... It was just such a classic Thibodeau sort of situation where the offense didn't make any sense and he just didn't care about it at all. He was just like, as long as you defend, I'll let you do whatever you want on offense. Well, and then also play Rose for 38 minutes a game. It's like, what do you think's going to

happen here? You've been playing him 24 all year. And it was like, wow, Rose looks tired. It's like, yeah, because he's old. He's not meant to be the focal point of an offense for 38 minutes a game. All right, we're going to go. Kyle, it's like, what, 247 your time right now?

It is. I'm really proud. I mean, you know, people talk about troopers, people gutting through injuries, gutting through pain. What you gutted through tonight, I'm never going to forget my entire life. Sirut, first appearance on the BS. This was a pleasure. It was good to see you. This podcast was produced by our guy,

Kyle Creighton, who's going to stay up now until like one 15, one 30 of the morning. Kyle, you doing all right with this? Are you mad at me? No, I would never say that out loud.

Okay. Okay. I told Kyle, this is gonna be like 45 minutes. So I met, it might've been a white lie. We'll be back on this podcast on Sunday night Sierra you're on Ringer NBA tomorrow night?

yep check out the Mavs Clips reaction have a good weekend everybody enjoy the basketball, see them on the way so I never say I don't have feelings with them. On the wayside, on the way so I never say I don't have feelings with them.