The Bill Simmons Podcast - A New York Sports Renaissance With John Jastremski. Plus, Kenan Thompson (Finally!)

Episode Date: April 1, 2021

The Ringer's Bill Simmons talks with new Ringer addition John Jastremski about New York sports including the start of (a full-length) baseball season, the competent New York Knicks, the juggernaut Brooklyn Nets, the upcoming NFL draft, the Jets and Sam Darnold, and Giants fans' hopes with Saquon Barkley's return. They also discuss the NCAA tournament heading into the Final Four and more (9:30). Then Bill is joined by actor and comedian Kenan Thompson to discuss his new NBC sitcom, 'Kenan'; getting into acting as a child; the revival of Kenan's hometown of Atlanta; some of his favorite moments from 'SNL'; and more (1:09:45). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Did you know that CeCe Sabathie and Ryan Rucco have a podcast together? Oh, yeah. It's called R2C2. They've had it for a while. And heading into this baseball season, it's where you want to be to find CeCe's thoughts on the Yankees, the L East, baseball in general. Plus, they will sprinkle in a crapload of basketball and football as well, specifically basketball.

CeCe loves basketball. Rucco broadcasts basketball. You can hear these guys go back and forth all the time on the R2C2 podcast, only on the Ringer Podcast Network. It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. Football is in full action. FanDuel's highest rated sports book is the best place to bet it all. We've been doing pretty well on million dollar picks this year. I love the first month of the season because you have to go into the season thinking, I think Pittsburgh's going to be good. I think the Chargers are going to be good. I think Seattle's going to be good. And

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to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. You must be 21 plus and present in select states. Gambling problem called Win 100 Gambler or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by my old friend, Miller Lite. I've been a big fan of Miller Lite, man, since college days when I was allowed to have beer. I think nephew Kyle is a fan too. Miller Lite keeps it simple for us. Undebatable quality, great taste. Picture this, it's game day, all the gang's here. You're tailgating outside the stadium. It's a great time for beer.

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with all the great beer tastes we like. 90 calories per 355 mil can. So why not grab some Miller Lites today? Your game time tastes like Miller time. Must be legal drinking age. We're also brought to you by TheRinger.com as well as The Ringer Podcast Network. Put up new rewatchables on Monday.

Commando, me, Shea Serrano, Kyle Brandt. And we have another one coming later this week. We did the 40th anniversary of Thief, the first ever theatrical Michael Mann movie. It's a classic. Me, Sean Fantasy, Chris Ryan. Get ready for that one. It's a classic. Me, Sean Fennessey, Chris Ryan. Get ready for that one. It's going up Thursday night.

And speaking of special interest podcasts, Ryan Russillo did a special two-part series about the ABA. He talked to people like Julius Irving and Bob Costas. And if you're a basketball nerd, highly recommend this one. Good deep dive, a lot of good stories and a league that, uh,

you know, when I was living in Boston and they weren't even televising ABA games, I don't even think I had seen an ABA team until one of them came to the garden after the merger, the Boston garden. Um, but I only knew the ABA through basketball cards. So I've always been fascinated by that league. It's a really fun couple of podcasts. So check that one out. A little bit later in this podcast, we'll be talking to Johnny Stremski, who has a new podcast launching on The Ringer on Sunday night called New York, New York, an all New York sports podcast. We're going to talk about the state of New York sports with him and Kenan Thompson, the longtime SNL star who has somehow never been on this podcast. We're going to talk to him as well.

Before we get to all that, baseball, opening day, it's coming. I'm going to give you three minutes on why I am secretly excited for this Red Sox season. One is that I was a baseball widow last year. I gave up. The Mookie Betts trade just killed me. The COVID thing, 60-game season, the Red Sox are going to be bad. I gave up. The Mookie Betts trade just killed me. The COVID thing, 60 game season, the Red Sox are going to be bad. I just needed a break. I didn't know if I wanted to continue being a fan of the team. And I got over it. The Red Sox have been in my life forever.

I will never forgive them for the Mookie Betts trade, but life moves on. And I am excited that it's getting warm outside. Opening day is coming. My fantasy, my League of Dorks, we did on Monday night and kind of got me, my juices flowing. And this Red Sox team, here's the thing. First of all, as Kevin Hench and I talked about the other day, they're going to be able to bop. I feel some bopping going on this season. I do think it's going to be a little 77 Red Sox-esque.

Dahlbeck, first baseman, feast or famine power hitter. Bogarts, one of the better power hitting shortstops in either league. Alex Verdugo, who went for $28 in my fantasy draft. JD Martinez, comeback year. I'm willing to write off last year. Weird year COVID. Fully expect him to be back into form. And then Rafael Devers,

who's always been kind of bordering the last two years on can this guy become a superstar, but I just like the bats. Their lineup's a little more flexible. Got guys like Kiki Hernandez in here now, Marwan Gonzalez. And I just think they're going to score runs. So then it comes down to the pitching.

They have a lot of arms. Now, they don't have the go-to. There's no Chris Sale yet. I mean, hopefully he'll come back tail end of the year, but Eduardo Rodriguez, assuming he's healthy, Nathan Evaldi.

I think Nick Pavetta is going to be a sleeper for them. Don't laugh. I really do. Garrett Richards will be okay. Martin Perez won't last long. He'll be replaced by somebody. They always have the ability to maybe trade for a starter too if they're kind of

floating around being in the hunt. But the bullpen is where I really think they're going to be good because I think Adovino is the closer. Barnes, Brazier, Darwin's and Hernandez. Sara Mora, who they got from Japan, who I actually think is going to be really

good this year for them. And then they've been kind of stockpiling arms. It's interesting. They've been trying to do the Tampa Bay Rays thing for the last couple of years, where trying to operate on the edges, trying to get some arms, trying to do some creative deals like how they got out of, you know, from the Yankees. And when I see that their over-under on FanDuel is 79 and a half, that's when it gets ridiculous to me. I know they're in a good division. I just think they're going to score runs.

And I like the over. Again, on FanDuel, it's minus 104, the over-under of 79 and a half wins. Can this team win 80 games? I think they will. I think they're going to have offense. I don't think the Yankees pitching is going to come through the way people seem to think. The Rays scare me like always, but the Rays, it might be like a tiny bit of a transition

year for them, where especially they're relying on a lot of young pitchers. People are talking about now that the pitchers, they don't, they're not going to have quite the stamina with the arm stuff. So who knows that the way the rays do where they, where they have all these dudes, Nick Anderson's hurt. He's out for at least the first half of the season.

So maybe the rays won't be as good, but anyway, the Orioles are the one thing team that we know is going to be bad. They're over under, I think it's 63 and a half on Fando. And then Toronto is a wild card because they have a lot of bats. But I do like this Red Sox team. I think it's going to be a fun season. I'm willing to have them win my heart back after my year long suspension then because they traded a generational superstar who was awesome

on and off the field that had a chance to be a complete ambassador in the city. Whatever, I'll get over it. Baseball is back. Life is starting to feel normal again. We're not out of the pandemic quarantine yet, but a lot of people have gotten the vaccine or are one shot in, things like that. The sun is out, the sun is shining and starting to feel semi-optimistic for the first time in a long time. Life is hinting toward being normal again. I'm on the sidelines for soccer games again. Yeah, it's weird wearing masks. But when you think about the last 13 months, just how completely abjectly insane they were.

Something about baseball and March Madness and basketball happening and the NFL draft coming, the schedule of sports, which just got thrown out of whack along with everything else in March, April, and May last year. And it was one of the many reasons why it was just so incredibly scary and weird and awful. But as always with this stuff, when the sports schedule starts to feel a little bit normal again and you start hitting those same beats, life starts to feel normal again. And I'm not saying life's going to be normal for a long, long time, but something about this week where it was like 80 degrees in LA today. Baseball's happening. You're listening to this podcast probably on a Thursday. There's

going to be baseball games and maybe things will start getting normal again. So I appreciate everybody who's listening to the pod, especially over the last 13 months. Not sure what situation you're in. If it helped at all to hear people arguing about stuff on this podcast or some of the interviews we've done, whatever. Glad we could be there. But for me, it was definitely therapeutic. It was good to get just talking and trying to stay as normal as possible. And I know, especially trying to do the ringer this last year plus, where we can't be in an office, where it's hard to get face-to-face time with anybody and stuff. It's been as weird professionally as it has been personally, but it's starting to feel like things are coming back a little bit. And maybe I'm a glass half full person, but it's hard not to feel optimistic on opening day when there's real signs of hope, hopefully.

So we'll see. Anyway, hope you and your family are doing well. We're going to get to the podcast now. First, Pearl Jam. All right, we're taping this on a Wednesday. It's going to run at some point Thursday. Johnny Stramski is here. He is launching a new podcast with us on Sunday night.

It's a brand new feed. You can subscribe to it on Spotify. Subscribe, it's free. You can follow it on Spotify. Every time there's a new episode up, it'll pop up there. You can follow it on Apple, wherever you get your podcasts. Subscribe now. Here's why we're doing this pod.

This is, we started talking a while ago, a couple of months ago. And the question was, in big cities like New York, the biggest of all, you have eight sports teams there. And it's this old school structure of how they do radio, right? It's like, you got the fan, you got ESPN radio, the shows are on in the morning at six o'clock, the shows are on, the afternoon show starts at two, whatever. It's like this rigid thing. And yet sports moves constantly. And you have these days like Sunday, Sunday NFL, Jets, Giants playing at the same time. And then it's done at 4.30. Why do we have to wait so long to

hear somebody really smart and passionate talk about things like that? That's one of the things we're trying to do with this podcast, kind of react in the moment while also bringing in a bunch of guests and then letting this guy do his thing. So welcome aboard to The Ringer. What made you want to leave the radio world and become a podcast guy? Bill, first of all, it's got to be you, man. I mean, listen, sometimes you get that sales pitch. Bill Simmons comes to call and I don't want to kiss your ass for the next 30 or 35 minutes, but it's true.

It's not like I was being asked to go and start my own business and start my own podcast and basically put everything on the line, you guys got a good thing going. I mean, listen, I listen to a bunch of your podcasts. I listen to you and Sal. I listen to Rusillo, Ruko and Cece. I'm into it. So when you came to me back in December and mentioned this idea, I mean, my eyes lit up. So I'm fired up about it. And, you know, if you would have told me five years ago that I'd be leaving WFAN to go into the podcast world, I probably wouldn't have believed you. But I think you can speak to the fact that the business right now is so drastically different than it was five, 10, 15 years ago. It's just a different world. Well, one of the reasons

I think we fell in mutual platonic love, you love gambling. That is true. You love watching sports at all hours. That is true. There are certain things about you that lend yourself to hosting a podcast like this. And I think one of the things we want to do with this pod,

you know, it's going to be Sunday night, Tuesday night, Thursday night. Those will be the big episodes, but you're also going to be there. Like if the Nets are playing the Knicks on a Saturday and it's a game seven, you're not waiting two days to do a podcast. Yeah, we're going. This idea that we're going to, you know, wait until Sunday or Tuesday or Thursday, please. No, if the Knicks are in the playoffs, Bill, I'm going to want to work. Remember, I'm coming from a platform in which I work five days a week, two or three different

jobs. I am used to the grind, my friend. Now, listen, I'm going to enjoy the benefits of what podcasts have to offer. That is true. I don't think I'll be doing live content at three or four o'clock in the morning, although you never know. Yankees, Red Sox, 25 innings. Maybe one or two of those will have to stay up super late. But listen, I want to work, man. That's one thing about me. Yankees are playing in the postseason. The Mets are playing in the postseason. We're there. Knicks, Nets,

I mean, they got fun May and June rides, more so from a Nets standpoint, let's be honest. Yeah, man, I'm going to want to work. So listen, we got a ton of stuff lined up. We're going to have listener interaction, which I'm fired up about. We're going to have a ton of great guests who are going to join the show. And yeah, there's going to be gambling involved, but this is basically a podcast for New York sports fans, for gamblers, for people who want to have some fun and react to what's going on here in the big city. Bro, we got you covered. Well, the other thing, I feel like our timing is pretty good with this. And we'll talk about this in a second.

But I do feel like baseball, I'm not saying baseball is back. But it feels like people are kind of ready for a baseball season again. Last year was a throwaway. It was this kind of fudge together season. It was short. Guys were opting out. It was COVID. No fans.

There's nothing fun about it. Playoffs were kind of fun, whatever. Now it feels like baseball is back a little bit. You have the Yankees and Mets who are both really interesting for different reasons. Both have different set of pressures. So you got that. You have a relevantkees and Mets, who are both really interesting for different reasons. Both have a different set of pressures. So you got that. You have a relevant Knicks team again.

And by relevant, I mean competent. For the first time, really, since 2013, while Brooklyn is easily the favorite in the East, so we have all that stuff with basketball, we have the Jets, who have the second pick in the draft, who might take this kid from BYU, and the Giants, who are in there. So both football teams still doing their thing. And then even the hockey's got a little bit going. Out of all that stuff, what is the storyline you're the most excited about

right now as we head into April? That's a great question. For me, it's an easy call, Bill. It's the start of the baseball season. And I think it's because last year we didn't have that marathon. You know, there's something to be said for every night. For you on the West Coast, it's maybe four o'clock over a little happy hour. For me, it's at seven o'clock.

You do whatever you do throughout your day and you watch the Yankees every night. You watch the Mets every night. You get irrational when they lose four in a row. You go crazy when they win six or seven in a row, even though they're playing 140 or 150 more games. But like, I missed that last year. You know, you're right. The 60 game season, it was better than nothing. But I mean, you had guys opting out. You had nobody in the ballpark. You had teams not taking it too seriously because you knew you were getting eight teams into the playoffs. I'm looking forward to the grind of watching the team every night, going out to the ballpark every night. I go a ton. I'm disturbing. I'll probably be at like 30 Yankee games this year. That's how

I roll. I mean, that's what I do. I miss the Bronx. I miss the bodega. I miss the elements of just being with the people, bro. So, you know, for me, having baseball back is gigantic. And listen, the Knicks being relevant is great. I love Tibbs. Randall has become like, you know, New York's favorite son. The problem I have though, Bill, is that with the Knicks, let's be honest, there's no avenue. There's no window for them making like a deep, serious playoff run. Like I can't get delusional like I did in 2013 with Mello or like I did for all those years during the Ewing era. This team kind of has like a limited shelf life. It's fun, but I know it's coming to an end. Yankees in a mess. I think both can play deep into October.

Last season was the frozen pizza season. It was the, I'm really hungry. The frozen pizza season. It's 7.50 at night. I know I need to eat soon or the food's going to sit in my stomach all night. There's nothing in the fridge. I don't feel like ordering pizza. I just want to eat now. I'm just going to turn the oven on and put this pizza. You're thawing the ice off it. And you know, it's not going to be that good, but it's like, I kind of need to eat. That's. So for me, it was like, I just skipped my meal. I didn't need, I barely watched any baseball next. Well, let's be honest. Also the fact that the Red Sox were an out and out abomination, I'm sure comes into play a little bit, right? A lot of bit. Plus the Mookie Betts trade,

all that stuff. I probably should have asked this before you started working with us, but how much Red Sox bashing is it going to be? Like a healthy amount? Is it just going to be pot shots? No, I mean, I think it's more fun. Listen, it's more fun to take pot shots at you. So if the Yankees go and dominate them, I don't think it's Red Sox bashing.

It's okay. I get a chance to needle my new boss now and have some fun and get under his skin a little bit. So you will be getting the text from me if the Yankees go and like win three out of four against Boston to start the year. And I expect, you know, the opposite. If I got to go here, you know, dirty water, three out of four games. And I got to get back to Fenway, by the way, this, I can't believe I'm admitting this on the podcast. I really shouldn't do this. Fenway is by far and away my favorite place to watch a game, dude.

It's the best. It is the best. Anytime you give me shit, I'm just going to text you back four times. 4X. Because that's the amount of World Series that we've won compared to the Yankees this century. Yeah, that does not sit well with me. It does not sit well with me. Just 4X.

So you can say what you want. Just remember 4X. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember.

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And the ability to reach further with access to over 1,400 airport lounges worldwide. Redefine possible with Business Platinum. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms and conditions apply. Visit amex.ca slash business platinum. You mentioned the Knicks. So I had a friend, Koppelman, went to a Knicks game, I think this week, like yesterday or two days ago.

And there was like 1,800 people there. But he said there was like a real energy to it. And I'm wondering like when fans will be back a little bit, not totally, but just kind of like the carcass of MSG, but with enough bodies in there to actually make some noise versus some of these other, like the Clippers will have the worst 1,800 person crowd on the planet. There'll be no energy in there to actually make some noise versus some of these other, like the Clippers will have the worst 1800 person crowd on the planet. There'll be no energy in there at all.

It'll be all manufactured scoreboard, audio prompts. It'll just sound like it's being played in a soundstage. MSG might actually come alive a little bit. And I think what people were surprised by was the amount of energy just from a small group of people.

And I'm wondering, like, I do feel like there's some scrappy underdog potential with them, at least for one round. Well, what I'm hoping for, Bill, is that they end up getting one of those top six seeds that it could stay out of that playing tournament, number one. And I don't want to match up with Miami in the first round. And I think Miami is going to end up getting one of those top four seeds. You saw it.

They played Miami the other night. They're just so much better than the Knicks. I mean, they went to the NBA finals last year. They had Butler, they had Bam, they have Hero. They have so many different dudes that can go and take over a game. Like, I'll tell you what would be a fun first round series. I mean, talk about needling you right out of the gate. Can I get Knicks Celtics first round right out of the gate? You actually can. You might get us in a playing game. You might get us at the... So you have abandoned hope now of getting one of those top six seeds.

You throw it in the towel. Abandoned. Gone. Ship has sailed. I'm more worried about like seeing the Knicks in the 8-9 game where we're the nine and we have to win like two in a row or whatever the rules are this year. I think they're going to have a lot of trouble turning, uh, going on a hot streak. I just don't see it with this

team. You know, you mentioned Miami though. I do think Charlotte could hold on in that division. Like there's so little of the season left. It feels like we have like all this time left. We really don't like we're now we're at like, it's like 20 plus games left. And it's like Jimmy Butler goes out for five games. All of a sudden the ship is sailed for Miami. So really don't. Now we're at 20 plus games left and it's like Jimmy Butler goes out for five games. All of a sudden, the ship is sailed for Miami. I don't know. I'm really interested to see, A, who can get in that top four, B,

who can get five and six. And then the playing matchups where I don't want to play the Knicks in a playing game. Well, because they're going to bust their ass. I mean, they're going to play hard. Totally. And now all of a sudden you look at Chicago, Chicago getting Vucevic with Levine. They're interesting now.

You know, they are intriguing to me. I haven't seen them yet since they've made the trade, but that's like kind of on my to-do list to watch them after all the NCAA basketball turns around. Because I want to see if they can be, you know, a legit one-two punch. And I don't know if you felt this way. I love that trade for Chicago. I get what Orlando's doing. They stink, but going get a guy with Levine and then find out is Levine a guy who's

just going to score 35 points on a bad team and does nothing for the rest of his NBA career. Or is this going to be the start of something special for somebody like that? Chicago now, to me, in addition to the Knicks, is going to be super, super interesting. Yeah, and you get to these games and it's basically you're playing two-on-two down the stretch, right? It's my best two scorers against your best two scorers

when it really slows down. They have two guys who could score. You know, I look at my team where it's the Celts are basically, they live and die depending on whether the three-point shots are going in. They don't get to the line that much. If the threes aren't, it's not a great ball-moving team. They're not going to get, like, the hockey assists.

And it comes down to the threes. Chicago is a really hard team to play. Levine makes crazy shots. He's averaging 30 a game. Vucevic is, you know, his ability to stretch the floor and move out and run things through him. And I think about a game. Vucevic is, you know, his ability to stretch the floor and move out and run things through him. I think about a guy like Robert Williams

trying to guard him in crunch time in some sort of 7-10 play-in game or something. It's kind of a nightmare. Nick's Nets round one. What excites you about that? Because really...

I mean, it's a House Money series, right? That's what it would come down to. It's House Money for the Knicks. There's no way you'll think that when it happens. Yeah, but I'm real with it. When it happens, you're going to be like, here's how we can win. See, I don't think so, Bill.

Because I don't think there's a chance in hell they can win that series. Well, there is a chance. Unless you tell me. Kyrie before game two being like, hey, I've decided to skip the next three games. He's got to go on hiatus, and Durant's got to be beat up,

and then basically it's got to be the James Horton show where James Horton is, you know, surrounded with the other guys on that team and turns into playoff James Horton that we've seen for years with the Rockets. Tibbs running guys at him and doing Tibbs stuff and his mask falling off, his spit everywhere.

I see what you're doing here. You're trying to sucker me in. I am. You're trying to get me to take the bait. I will root like crazy. I would love to see the Brooklyn Net fans in my life absolutely miserable, but, dude, there's no way in the world the Knicks are winning that series.

And there's a way. There's a way. are winning that series. And there's a way. There's a Kyrie, A-well Kyrie. Series price on that would be what? Brooklyn minus $3,500? No, I think it would be like $1,700 range because they're going to factor in the Knicks fans.

The crazy Knicks fans at 2 in the morning are like, ah, fuck it. I'll put $20 on this, which I don't think could be discounted. The case would be the Knicks fans at two in the morning are like, ah, fuck it. I'll put 20 bucks on this, which I don't think could be discounted. Yeah. So the case would be the Knicks. So right now the Knicks are in the five seed, but it's like everybody's within a game of each other. But conceivably that could be the three, six matchup, right? The best case, I don't think the Knicks can beat Philly and I don't think the Knicks can beat Brooklyn. The only way you beat Philly is if Embiid either is not 100% or doesn't come back. You're not beating Brooklyn if the three guys are playing.

You need some chicanery. You need playoff James. You need unreliable Kyrie. You need KD's not 100% healthy, but he's going to keep playing. You would need some weird chemistry stuff with, well, Aldridge thought he was going to play more. Blake Griffin's disappointed he's not playing crunch time. There's a path that Brooklyn is beatable in a playoff series.

I still think they're the favorite on with you. I think the ceiling of that team is so much higher. It's a 25-story building versus everybody else's like a 15-story building. But I also feel like there's a lot of potential for some weird shit to happen. Well, and I got to say, I didn't like the Horton trade when they made it. Harden really ticked me off with the way he basically quit on the Eastern Rockets. And let me make this clear, Bill, he should not get the MVP award this year. I don't care how good his numbers may be. You can't sell an optic of a guy basically saying, screw you, I'm done, I'm quitting on my team, and I'm going to eat cheese doodles and

burgers and whatever and come totally out of shape in my team. And I'm going to eat cheese doodles and burgers and whatever and come totally out of shape in the camp. And we're going to reward that guy with an MVP as good and as terrific as he's been with Brooklyn. And he's been great. He's been better than I could have imagined. He's a triple-double machine. He's playing a beautiful brand of basketball.

They can't give me the optic of Horton winning the MVP award this year. They can't do it. No, there should be some penalty tax. We need, you're going to get Francesa on your pod at some point. Absolutely. Yeah, we will do that for sure. This is where the world really needs Francesa to come in. He's like Schwarzenegger in Commando.

He's probably on some mountain carrying logs around, just living the good life. We need him to come off the mountain and just lay into this hard and MVP thing for three minutes. All right, three minutes. I think we can get him for 15 minutes, 30. Take your pick. I don't know what annoys him more right now.

This guy's been a loser his whole career. I can't wait. His whole thing. Guy's lost, okay? He's lost. He's lost. He's a loser. He's lost every place? He's lost. He's lost. He's a loser. He's lost every place he's ever been.

No, the MVP thing, not factoring in the Houston thing into an MVP debate and just concentrating on his effect on Brooklyn is among the dumbest sports arguments I've ever heard in my life. It's based on the entire season. Houston is a corpse.

It's like they're in the worst situation of any team in the league and then they got all these meaningless picks for them. And it's like, if you're a Houston fan, what are you looking at long-term? What are you excited about? You might not even get your pick this year because it might be a pick swap.

So for Harden to be most valuable, don't you have to factor in the fact that he basically gutted this franchise? No doubt. No doubt. And I keep hearing that argument around town. And unfortunately, what happens is people become prisoners of the moment. People around New York, if they're getting into the Nets, they're like, wow, I can't

believe the numbers this guy's putting up. I can't believe how terrific he has been. And listen, I didn't think he would fit in as well as he did when Durant was playing and when Kyrie Irving was playing. Because, Bill, you know, a lot of times you see these quote-unquote super teams. It takes them a ton of time. It even took Miami, you know, what they start off, nine and eight. People are talking about firing Spolstra.

And then they got going midway through that year. This net team though, literally they put Harden on the court and it was like, wow, this has all the potential in the world. These guys like playing with one another. But my question with the three of those guys remains the same. When they get down to the post-season and they need to get stops and they don't have anybody inside as a legitimate rim protector, they get the wrong matchup. That could be problematic if it's Davis and the Lakers in the finals. And I think Embiid, I'd love to see a healthy Joel Embiid against that Brooklyn team. I don't think they have an answer for him, Bill. Now I have 16 to 18 along with the Sixers, full disclosure. So I will be rooting like crazy.

I got a good price on the Nets too. For some reason, I threw both of those in at the beginning of the year, but I'd love to see a Nets-Sixers Eastern Conference Finals. I don't want to see Milwaukee because I think they kind of, they are what they are. Giannis Wilson, they're with a ton of wins throughout the regular season, and they just can't get

anything done come playoff time. When they signed Jeff Teague, I was like, I'm crossing you off. That's it. You're out. I just watched Jeff Teague for 35 games. If that's going to be somebody that's actually playing playoff minutes for you, good luck. Giannis has played

I think the best basketball I've seen him play for the last, I don't know, five weeks. And it just doesn't matter to anybody because he's hit that weird point that athletes hit in different sports where they're just like, cool. It's almost like that Kershaw level. It's Kershaw.

It's Peyton Manning all over again. You got to do it in the playoffs. Go 24-0 in the regular season, Kershaw, but win a couple of playoff games and then we'll actually fully digest your season. And that's just where he is. And I don't know if there's any way out of that. Wait, I wanted to talk about quickly the basketball odds because they're on FanDuel right now.

So the Knicks to make the playoffs. What do you think the odds are right now? Knicks right now to make the playoffs. Make the playoffs. Not playing game. Playoffs. They are a playoff team in the East. I'm going to say minus 135. Minus 140. Wow. Pretty good. It's better than I thought. Pretty good. So the

Robinson thing I think is a real thing for them because they missed out on the buyout market. They could have traded for people. They didn't. They thought they were going to get him back. And now he fractures foot. He's out for the year, I think. And they're a guy short. So I do feel like the fear I would have with the minus 140 is just the injury factor. Like if you lose Randall for two weeks.

They're playing the corpse of Taj Gibson 35 minutes a night. And New Orleans, the well. You know what's killed them, Bill? Obi Toppin. And I don't want to say he can't play in the league because listen it's one year right now if you could do a little bit of a do-over you're not making that pick quickly he's been awesome he's been so much fun to watch Toppin on the other hand has looked terrible he's looked awful well it's interesting

right they so they have Randall they don't seem like they totally know what they have with Randall. Toppin was kind of a guy they needed last year, but then with the way Randall's playing, there's no path for Toppin. If Randall's your keeper long-term, you can't play Toppin and Randall at the same time. That makes no sense. So Toppin's kind of screwed. I was hoping during the, uh, before the trade deadline that they could flip him for Markkinen or Marvin Bagley. Try to get some asset from somebody else because I just think he's going to be an appreciating asset.

He's never going to get the time unless Randall gets hurt. This sounds crazy. I want Lonzo Ball on the Knicks in the absolute worst way. I don't think it's crazy at all. He's having a good season. Well, I think you fit the team perfectly.

They need a pass-first point guard. He's done so much better shooting the ball from beyond the arc. And now his dad gets out of the way. It's not even like you got to worry about

LeVar staying. Also, it's a stupid shit. He's been quiet. That's fine. Bring him. Lonzo Ball would fit the Knicks perfectly next year. And like they're not

the big free agent. That's fine. He's playing well. He doesn't need to profile as that big free agent. He compliments the team great. He really does. Before we go to a break, can you tell us quickly about where do we stand with New Yorkers

in this Nets-Knicks thing? What kind of closet what kind of closet bandwagon Nets fans are there? How do the real New Yorkers regard these people? Like what's going on in this whole world?

The Knicks fan still dominates the conversation every which way. It doesn't matter at the Nets that a favorite's to win the entire thing. It is a Knick town. So when the Knicks are playing well, like the Knick-Knack game a couple of weeks ago, it was that ESPN Monday night game. There was a couple of Fugazi calls at the end.

I remember the Knicks fan was just up in arms. The Nets fan was just like very like walking on eggshells type deal, like not trying to rub it in because they know, listen, they're well aware of the fact that they are the second class citizen. What I'm curious to see, though, is Knicks get bounced, let's say in the first round they get all the attention the Nets are going on a run they're playing Philly in these finals they're playing the Lakers let's say in the NBA finals is it going to be the number one story in town

I don't think so Bill I don't I think people will talk about it it will have buzz obviously it's a big national story but to try to equate Brooklyn being in the finals to the Knicks being in the finals, apples and oranges. Well, even taking it a step further, you live in Brooklyn. What kind of championship parade for the Nets? What does that look like? Who is at that parade? Is that the most depressing championship parade in any of the four professional sports ever? Yeah, I don't know what they do. Do they go down my block? Did they go down Atlantic Avenue? Did they like Flatbush Avenue? Is it like hanging out in Park Slope on floats? Yeah. It doesn't sound as appealing. And Brooklyn's

great. I love living here. It's an awesome, awesome place. But it's something to be said for that like Canyon of Heroes type you know, type of celebration. Like when the Rangers won the cup, that was like the entire city stopped for three days. Oh, the Rangers winning the cup or the Yankees winning their first in 2009. I don't remember the Yankees. I don't remember the Yankees titles. You're blocking those out. I blocked those out. I remember the Rangers, though.

That was fun. I was waiting for a Knick parade. That's still, you know. The Knick parade happened when you were like, yeah, minus 17 years old. Yeah. I was going to say minus 25. Close enough. All right.

We're going to take a break. All right. March Madness. Kind of boring, right? We had a couple of fun endings, but for the most part, I agree with you. I barely follow college basketball. I have watched some of the tournament and Gonzaga just seems at a whole other level than anybody else. But it's weird to go from the NBA just night after night, NBA, NBA, and watch these college games where

it's like 44 to 43 with four minutes left. And I'm thinking like, I just watched a game the other day where it was like 42 to 40 at the end of the first quarter. The pace of the NBA versus like college, the pressure of the stuff. Gonzaga was the one that seemed like they had their shit together the best. And it's just, I test, it's clear that they have the best team. They're probably going to win. And yet this is what makes college basketball great. I could totally, once you have that pressure, once you're the everybody believes in us team, we know that this does not work.

It works in college football. It does not work in college basketball. Well, and think about it. Gonzaga's trying to be the first team since Knights Indiana to go wire to wire undefeated throughout the year. And I keep wondering, Bill, they're in a game that's tight. It's like a three-point game with five minutes to play they haven't played in a whole lot of close games how exactly are they going to handle it well if

they keep smoking everybody we may never know and you know listen i'm one of these guys that appreciates college basketball and the nba and you have to almost understand look the skill level is going to be nowhere close to what you're seeing night in and night out. Maybe it helps that I'm a Q's guy through and through. So like I'm watching them nightly like there, you know, I bleed orange, dude, like they're one of my teams. I watch the ACC religiously now. I miss the old Big East like there's no tomorrow. But, you know, I like the rivalries. I like conference tournaments. I love the NCAA tournament, but in general, you know, the first three days of the tournament were pretty good. I was down in AC Friday and Saturday was hopping. It was great to be in a sports book again. Syracuse kept winning. So

obviously that put me in better spirits, but since like the Monday of the second round, it has just been blowout after blowout after blowout. And that kind of is what makes the tournament great. Not the blowouts, of course, the games that come down to the wire, like, you know, it's, it's a two minute, you know, 58, 55 type game. And it's anybody's game. And, you know, kids are missing free throws and there's buzzer beaters and there's all that craziness. Didn't really get as much of that this year and that kind of sucks. UCLA was the only one that seemed to be in those games a couple of times.

And like the Michigan, I was rooting for Michigan because of Jalen. He was getting a lot of FaceTime yesterday. I loved it. Did you notice that? I actually, I feel like that should have been an extra channel where I just could have watched a camera that was trained on Jalen

just so I could have seen his different reactions. Look, Juwan did a great job this year. One of my frustrations, this is my all-time pet peeve with coaching. Michigan, they do everything right. They commit all the timeouts at the right, they call the timeouts at the right time.

They commit the fouls at the right time. Finally, they get this guy to the line. There's like 19 seconds left. He makes the first. They're up two. at the right time. Finally, they get this guy to the line. There's like 19 seconds left. He makes the first. They're up two. Juwan calls timeout to ice him, which I like because I think that actually works in college. It was like, oh, this guy's missing the second one. Misses the second one.

Another timeout from Michigan. It's like, I have momentum. I have this one guy who just missed the free throw. And they're advancing it up the floor, too. That's the other thing. It's not like they grab the rebound. They grab a rebound. Sometimes your best look in one of those scramble situations, Bill,

is kind of letting it improvise, you know? Letting your players and trusting your players go and get themselves a decent look. Now, to Michigan's defense, they got a really good look at the end of the game. They got two really good looks at the end of the game. They got two really good looks at the end of the game. I don't know. Did you think that Wagner shot was going in?

It's like off balance, going to the right. It's a 24-footer. And he wasn't making shots anyway. Couldn't make one all game. That was the problem. I think he was like three of 11 or three as well. I just like, 19 seconds left. Guy misses a free throw.

I'm down two. Scramble situation. It's like, why do we have practice? What do we do for six months? Like, isn't this a thing you're practicing over and over again scramble situation. It's like, why do we have practice? What do we do for six months? Like, isn't this a thing you're practicing over and over again? Different situation. Like Belichick, Belichick's letting it ride on this. He's like, this is what we do in July.

I, we say we do, we put in all the work for the moments like right now. So you know what to do. You run your best play, get your ball in your dude's hands. You want him to go to the rim so he can get fouled, maybe draw a three-point play or do a kickout, something like that. Why do I need a timeout? And then they set up this timeout for a guy who's ice cold. And as great as Juwan was this year in his first year, I just think college has so much overcoaching and overthinking to me that I just let the dudes play, man. That's my speech. Well, and then they were down one. I don't blame you.

I'm with you there a thousand percent. And they were down one, two, and they're shooting three point shots. It's like your bread and butter right now is getting at a rack and the size that overwhelmed Florida State and cost me a couple of shekels in the process. Why wouldn't you stick with, you know,

the formula and the blueprint that worked so well for you throughout the year? So how do people watch college basketball year and not realize that the PAC 12 was underrated? But it's my buddy Hench's big takeaway from college hoops. It's like, we have all these experts and everyone's like, Illinois, watch out for them. And all these different, um, these different picks and organs, but it was like the PAC 12 was kind of the sneaky conference. How do we miss this?

The PAC 12 is not like a small, it's not the Patriot league. It's fair. I think a lot of it has to do with the timing of the games. I think a lot of these guys, yeah, listen, I'm not saying it's right.

I'm not saying it's accurate, but you've got these PAC 12 games, not on primetime windows at seven o'clock Eastern. Some of them are going to be on at nine o'clock Eastern, but then you have a lot of these games, Bill. They're on at 11 or 1130 at night. And especially on a Saturday, if you're a true blue college basketball fan, you're watching at high noon, maybe you're watching at 330, maybe you're watching a seven o'clock game. And then, you know, your wife or your significant other is like, all right, it's nine o'clock. It's 10 o'clock. You watched enough. Uh, maybe let's go watch a movie. Maybe let's, you know, in a

normal year, let's go out to dinner or whatever. So I think from that standpoint, maybe you lose some of the people that would be watching PAC12 games. And I think the other thing to take into account, the league has not been that good over the last few years. Oregon has been pretty good. UCLA has gotten some players, but they haven't been a league in a long time that has made noise in the NCAA tournament. Now, I mean, they had teams galore. Oregon State got hot at the right time. USC got hot at the right time. UCLA, everybody hated that Mick Cronin hire because they didn't think he was UCLA material.

How about the fact that the guy is just a good basketball coach? You put him in a situation, the guy is a lifer, he gets players, and now the smartest thing UCLA can do is let him coach for the next decade. Don't think that you're going to have John Wooden coming back and he's going to win five straight national titles. Your program has been disappointing. This guy can coach. Let him coach. Don't try and reinvent the wheel. So we'll

see if UCLA screws it up with Cronin, but I think they finally got themselves a keeper. There's a lot of UCLA fans. One of the things that shocked me when I moved to LA was there was this whole UCLA, USC bitter blood feud that I just didn't know about, you know, coming from the East coast. I knew like, but you always think like in your head, you have all these college feuds, right? Like Duke, UNC, Syracuse, Georgetown, these things you grew up with. And then the stuff on the West coast, it was like, just didn't pay enough attention to it. The UCLA USC thing is like a real thing. And I think the fact that, uh, UCLA advanced and USC didn't

was just so delightful to every UCLA person. I know like, like it was like winning. It was better than making the final four was that USC also didn't make the final four, but UCLA did. It's a pretty good one. It's underrated. I got to say,

would you say it's more of a UCLA town or more of a USC town? I think it's more of a UCLA town, but it's interesting. There's some, there's some snottiness from the UCLA side toward the USC group okay that I really enjoy oh that's nice

I like when you have that dynamic with the fan base that's terrific it's a little like like Karate Kid like the Johnny Lawrence

is a little US UCLA and LaRusso the kid is at the beaten down car the Encino

that's kind of the USC thing even though both of them are great schools. And the USC people, it drives them crazy because they feel like, well, wait a second, you're being arrogant to us? Fuck you guys. We're as good of a school. How dare you? We've kicked your ass in football, all this stuff.

So there's a lot of deep-rooted disgust. I'm proud of you, by the way, for working in a Karate Kid Cobra Kai reference. That's how we welcome people into the ringer. Well, listen, as a guy who became addicted to Cobra Kai, I love that show. It is amazing.

The best part about that show, Bill, is that when you grow up watching the movies, and my dad probably put it on for me when I was like 10, 11 years old, you root like crazy for Ralph Macchio and the Johnny Lawrence character. You're like, screw him. He sucks. He's a bully. He's a dick, the years old. You root like crazy for Ralph Macchio and the Johnny Lawrence character. You're like, screw him. He sucks. He's a bully. He's a dick, the whole deal.

Now when I'm watching the show, Bill, I'm all in, man. I'm team Johnny Lawrence. I'm team Cobra Kai. I hope Ralph Macchio's not watching this because I want to have him on the show at some point, but it's easy, man. I root Johnny Lawrence all day now. All day, every day. Before you go, some point. But it's easy, man. I root Johnny Lawrence all day now. All day, every day. Before

you go, let's do a couple of betting things. Okay. NFL draft on FanDuel right now. Zach Wilson is minus 600 to be the second pick in the draft. Justin

Fields plus 600. Trey Lance, 20 to 1. And then after that, it gets stupid. I thought Zach Wilson, I thought this was a done deal like a hundred years ago that they were taking him second. Is there a possibility they might not take him second? What have you heard? I'd be stunned. I think the only way the Jets don't take him second is if they trade out of the pick. There's no way they're staying at two and taking a tackle or taking a wide receiver. And I think with the Dolphins doing all that day trading involving the Niners going to three

and then making the deal with the Eagles, I think it kind of tells you San Francisco's moving to three. They're probably hearing on the street, okay, the Jets are taking a quarterback. So I fully expect that Wilson, a BYU kid, is going to be their guy. And it's funny, he went from being like the undervalued quarterback, like six months ago. Now I feel like everybody is drooling all over Zach Wilson. So, you know, that like under the radar type element that is completely gone now.

I forget. Are you Jets or Giants? Neither. I'm a Dolphin guy. Oh, that's right. You're Dolphins. So I can annoy you during the football season too when you keep stealing our players. Thanks. With the Jets, you must have Jets fans in your life. You must have Jets fans who called in your show. Way too many.

Yeah, of course. How do you walk them through this whole thing where like, Sam Darnold, oh my God, what a luckyold. Oh, my God. What a lucky break. He fell to three. We got him to. Yeah, Sam Darnold. That didn't work out.

He got a totally fair chance. And now we're moving on and we're going to use the number two pick for another quarterback. And we're going to probably trade Sam Darnold for like the 39th pick. Yeah, it's tricky because I was a Darnold guy. I got to be honest, Bill, when I watched him at USC, he had that great Rose Bowl against Penn State. I thought he was going to be a really good pro. He kind of ended up in a terrible situation. That can happen. Todd Bowles, first year, gets fired. Then they bring in Gase. Gase was a disaster. Listen, they didn't put talent around him. He was not properly coached. But you know the dynamics of New York City. The idea of trying to sell the New York Jeff fan base on, well, Sam Darnold's going to bounce back with a new coach, and it's

going to be happily ever after, and it's going to be this storybook ending. Sorry, it doesn't work out. It just doesn't happen. And with the finances being the way that they are, with the league being set up the way that it is, Darnold may have success. Watch him go maybe to Pittsburgh, maybe to Denver. New situation like Tannehill leaving the Dolphins and going to Tennessee. Maybe Sam Darnold just got to get out of here for a change of scenery. But if you're the Jets, you can't like think about, oh, we can't screw it up with Donald. What if he's good elsewhere?

You got the second pick. Don't reinvent the wheel. Take the quarterback. Yeah, I heard this on one of our podcasts. I apologize to the person I'm plagiarizing this point from. Nice. There you go. But it was basically with quarterbacks. If you don't know within the first two years,

if you don't see real flashes, how many times has that person ever really worked out? So you just gave a good example, right? Tannehill. It's like, all right, am I winning the Super Bowl with Ryan Tannehill? Probably not. Could I make the playoffs with him?

Could I win a playoff game with him? Sure. I think he surprised us. You rooted for Tannehill? Probably not. Could I make the playoffs with him? Could I win a playoff game with him? Sure. I think he surprised us. You rooted for Tannehill forever. He had weird coaches. He had no help. He was in the wrong situation. I think it became clear, oh, actually, if you use it in this way, this guy can actually be a pretty good asset. You go back and you look at his stats. He took care of the ball. He could use his legs a little bit. There were things there, and he was clearly in the wrong situation. So I'm trying to look at this Darnold thing and be like, all right,

on the one hand, wrong situation, worst possible coach, bad team. On the other hand, what flashes did he show? Because I've been thinking about it because like what if the Patriots trade for him? I'd have to talk myself into it as a diehard Patriot fan.

But what flashes has he shown to make me think he could ever be a Super Bowl quarterback? I just haven't seen it. Well, and that's what you're looking for. And Bill, the Giants are going to be in the exact same predicament with Jones this year. They signed Kenny Galladay. Barkley's coming back. Second year with Judge. They got to win And he's got to be really good. He wasn't as good from his first year to his second year. So with these quarterbacks, listen, fair or unfair, you got three years. You said two?

I think by the time you hit the end of the third year, if you're kind of like, eh, I don't know. I think I'm like that with Jones now. I just don't see it. No, I don't either. I don't think he takes care of the ball. I don't think he's good enough. But let me ask you this question.

Last year, would you have said Josh Allen is going to be a top five quarterback in the league? I would have said no chance. No way. So I guess the flip with him was the accuracy piece that I don't think we realized he could increase his accuracy. But I think athletically, he was clearly something. That's fair. There were things he brought to the table that were clearly unique and high level, in my opinion. I don't see it with Darnold.

Like, what is his... I feel like basketball players, quarterbacks, there's a couple of positions, right? It's like, what's your thing? Do you have a fucking cannon arm? Do you have great legs? Are you like an unbelievable game manager who just does everything right? Like even when we had Brady the first year when he was playing and he wasn't even close to becoming the Brady that he became, but there were things that

he was doing, which were just so unique and so clearly better than Bledsoe, right? Every, the way he would run play actions and the way he could kind of move in the pocket, like there was like special things about him. And I've never seen that with Darnold. But at the same time, like I love getting distressed assets, you know, and I said, that's why I would have traded for everyone on the Kings. I would have traded for everyone on the Timberwolves. These guys are in bad situations. You look at the Kings roster. I don't know how they're that bad. But Darnold, he's a guy, put him in Pittsburgh. Let him sit behind Roethlisberger for a year. Let him learn that system. And then a year from now, maybe you got somebody that can be your guy.

I think Darnold almost needs like that mental reset for a year, as opposed to just like thrusting him into a situation and saying, all right, Cape, go get him. Him coming back to the Jets and the Jets passing up on a quarterback at two can't happen. Just can't. Right. Well, this is one of the reasons I want the Pats to get Minshew.

I like that with the stash. I like that. He's got a little spunk about him. He's got, he was six and six as a rookie. I made this case on the pod with Hensh the other day, so I don't want to do the full replay, but it was just like 37 TDs, 11 picks for his career. I've seen him win games.

I've gambled against him and been really frustrated that the defense I gambled on couldn't stop him. He was in the worst situation possible and he actually produced. Like he showed some things. If I was like whoever

trying to decide between do I trade for Darnold or do I trade for Minshew, I'd trade for Minshew 10 times out of 10. He costs like a million bucks. You could get him for nothing because Jacksonville is going to take Lawrence. And I just would, that would be the guy I would get. What is the preference? I was going to say, if you have your choice right now, assuming both are on the market, the Stash or Jimmy G? I would do stash with cam as a combo. Okay.

I get, I get two nice starts at the dartboard with cam. I get the whole, well, maybe the COVID thing really fucked him up last year. Like maybe that was a real thing. Let's, let's give him a real chance at this. But I also have Minshew who I know can produce, who I know on bad teams was able to move the ball, which is really, with the team that they're building, they have a really good team. They just need a

quarterback who can move the ball. I don't think it needs, they're not going to win the Super Bowl next year. But I would rather do that than trade like my first round pick for Jimmy Garoppolo and then pay him $22 million a year or whatever. No, not worth it. Because you kind of know what you have in Jimmy G. He's okay.

He's not going to be anything more than that. That's what he is. What are the Giants? If you're a Giants fan, how do you talk yourself into Daniel Jones? You're hoping that he's going to make this sort of leap similar to Allen. I think it's asking a lot. He's definitely not going to make a leap to that extent. They add Kenny Galladay,

who I always liked with the Lions. That guy goes and makes plays. Now he can't stay on the field, but he is a good player. Barkley coming back. Is he going to transform the offense? And what I would do, Bill, they got a first round pick. I'm taking another offensive player, whether it's on the line or it's somebody who's a playmaker. And I'm saying, all right, Daniel Jones, we are setting you up to be as good as you can possibly be. Go get it done. And if not, I don't have my quarterback. That is what I'm selling myself on. If I'm a giant fan that the talent around him and him may be, you know, busting his butt and working his ass off throughout the off season, it's going to make them better. I missed Saquon last year. As people have heard on my pod, I think he's the

greatest running back of all time. Wow. Really? I mean, most talented. I just have never seen a more talented person running a football. He's a freak. And let me tell you this. He is a great dude. He's a likable dude. And it actually bothers me, Bill, that I have to go on the air all the time and continue to bash the pick that the Giants made because it has nothing to do with the player and what he brings to the table. It's just the idea that taking a running back at two when you don't have a win-out game is drafting malpractice. You can't do it. And I was pro the pick, and I still think, in a way, it was the right pick because the reason they did it was they didn't love any of the quarterbacks. You think like Darnold was the next pick,

right? Josh Rosen. What did he go? Like seventh, ninth. Josh Allen was the only one from that point on who really turned into, they weren't going to, they weren't going to take Josh Allen second.

No, I get that. But think about this. If you could do it over again, would you rather have Quentin Nelson, Bradley Chubb, or Saquon Barkley? Fair.

That's the way I look at it. And listen, Bill, nobody at the time was saying that. Everybody at the time, and I was right there with them, said, go and take the quarterback. Go get Eli's successor. But I think about it now. Quentin Nelson's going to be an all-pro guard for a decade. And he's going to play. Chubb, you can't find pass rushers.

He's a stud with the Broncos. Barkley, what are we looking at? Another three really good years? I mean, it's a running back. I can't count on five, six, seven good years at that position. I'm 99% of the time, I'm usually wise with all my years of sports fan experience. The Barkley thing, I just think he's a generational talent at running back. You know, and if the case is like, this guy's a generational talent,

this is the most talented running back to come for probably a 10 year span. We have to take them. Sometimes I gravitate toward the generational talent, but you're right. It's a terrible idea. Running backs last five to seven years, you know, and you, you get Nelson,

you have him forever. It's like the Patriots had hog Hannah for like my entire life. I was at college. You know, he was our left guard forever. Richmond web with the dolphins was my guy. Right. Every year,

Richmond web, protect the Marino left side. Didn't have to worry about it. Wait, I have to ask since we year, Richmond Webb, protecting Marino, left side. Didn't have to worry about it. Wait, I have to ask, since we're talking QBs and you're a Dolphins fan. Two is at that point where it's way too early to say

maybe that was a two-year injury. I think they were afraid to kind of unleash him last year, but I was disturbed by his rookie season. And there is a case to be made that in Alabama, with all the weapons they have and all the advantages they have, he might've looked better than he actually was.

How do you maintain hope for that guy for year two? Like how have you talked yourself into this process of who is our guy? I think it's the idea of coming back off that hip surgery. I think a lot of people last year, Bill was saying he's not even going to play. They're going to sit him for the entire year. And then you see him in late October, early November. And I think you're right.

They kind of dumbed down the offense when they brought him in. And I know he wasn't throwing a great deep ball, but it to me was obvious that Shane Gailey, who had known Ryan Fitzpatrick for forever, he coached him with the Jets. He coached him with Buffalo. He basically said, all right, when Fitz is in the game, we have a certain game plan. When Chu is in the game, we are going to make sure we play ball control.

We're going to run the ball. But there were a couple of games this year. He out-dueled Kyler Murray, outplayed Kyler Murray. He had a game against the Chiefs, and I know they fell behind big in that game, but he was lighting up that defense. And my frustration with the Dolphins offense was why aren't they trusting this kid to do more? Now, listen, you look at his numbers and you look at what he did on the field and what Herbert did on the field. And I hope I'm not taking a big stress on this. Listen, a year ago,

Bill, if we were doing this podcast, I would have wanted nothing to do with Herbert because he didn't wow me in college. He didn't have that it factor about him. I was getting like those Bo Callahan flashbacks to draft day. I was like, this is not the guy I want leading my team. And you saw two at Alabama and he was a stud. You know, he was likable. He was charismatic. He was making all these plays.

Their first year in the NFL wasn't close. Herbert was the better player. The Dolphins now got a receiver who can stretch the field in Will Fuller. They're going to go and draft another playmaker. Hold on. What's up? What's your problem? Come on.

What's wrong with Will Fuller? He stretches the field. He just takes steroids. He can play. He took steroids. He takes a ton of ro rides, but he's good when he's on the field. Is he productive? Yes or no?

Yeah, when he's on the field, he plays eight games a year. You can't count on Will Fuller. He gets hurt every year. Yeah, but you got him on a one-year contract. He makes plays. I'll roll the dice on him. I would think the guy who's going to stretch the field for you is the guy you take with your awesome pick. You move back from three to six. You picked up an extra who's going to stretch the field for you is the guy you take with your awesome, the pick,

you move back from three to six. You picked up an extra two first rounders, but then you use one of your own. But it seems like they're going to take Chase with the six pick. You know what I'm intrigued by, though? I think Chase is probably the pick.

I love the two tight end setup that your team has for years. And if they get hits and put him with Gesicki, that is a hell of a one-two punch, dude. I'm intrigued by that. Very, very intrigued by that. I went on the Ringer NFL show Friday.

We did an emergency podcast last week after the trade. And I was just saying, I loved how the Dolphins played it. We always try to pretend we're smarter than the GMs. We're smarter than these teams. And it's like,

they should have done this. They should have done that. The Dolphins did exactly what you should haves. We're smarter than these teams. And it's like, they should have done this. They should have done that. The Dolphins did exactly what you should have done. They cashed in super early. They gave themselves a lot of time to think about what they want to do with the six pick. They got all these assets. The one flaw in the system is they're still making a huge bet on Tua. And that's the piece where this could potentially all fall apart is this one decision. They made, they did everything right. They had the right coach. They made all these great trades. The Tunsell trade is iconic, led to four first round picks, all this other stuff. And yet you have this one piece of it, which was Tua versus Herbert that they might've missed.

And that's the house of cards where it just falls apart just because of that one decision. Yeah. And you hope that's not the case, obviously, if you're somebody like me, who's a dolphin fan. I hope it's the case. Well, I know you do. That's fine. For somebody who's seen his team win for 20 or 25 years, you would think you've had enough. I'm even going to throw in the blood, Super Bowl, because you know what, Bill? I haven't seen my team in an AFC title game, basically in my fandom. Let that sink in for a minute. Now, I know they were in it in like 92 or 93, but it doesn't count because I was like five years old. That's why I don't want to hear

shit from the Jet fan either because the Jets have seen like three AFC title games since I've seen one. So I feel like all of the good karma I've gotten in my life from the Yankees and to a lesser extent with Syracuse, it is evened out by the Dolphins and the Knicks. And it's pretty crazy that now I look at the Dolphins and the Knicks and I look at like their regimes and their front offices and I'm like, holy shit, I think they know what they're doing. Well, it's very similar, right? The last 20 plus years where you come out of the nineties, the Dolphins had Marino. So every year you felt like they were in it, even though if you really look at the nineties, they weren't really as in it as it seemed. It was just Marino gave them this aura of contendership every year. Knicks had the same thing with Ewing. And then

you head into the two thousands and it flips and the Knicks are in a situation where they're just completely overwhelmed by terrible, terrible ownership, just terrible. And a guy hiring the wrong people, all that stuff. The Dolphins are overwhelmed. They end up in this fluke division where they're going, it's the greatest football team of all time. This iconic QB coach combo that will never happen again. And now both teams are kind of emerging from the shadows of that. I think the Knicks have figured out some sort of culture, the Dolphins, that the Flores thing was unbelievable. I mean, whether Tua versus Herbert works out or not, the fact that you have, like, if you're doing a fantasy draft of which

coaches would you want now for the next 20 years, Flores is in the top three. So at least they had that. He took a team that everybody thought was tanking, won five games and went to New England when they're playing for a bye and beat us. Killed us. Yeah, I mean, basically ended the Patriot dynasty. I know everyone's saying it was the Titans and Derrick Henry and Logan Ryan.

It was the Dolphins in that week 17 game. And then last year, Bill, listen, they're total. And that's why i'm encouraged by him it was what six six and a half i know they choked and they got smoked in that last game of the year against the bills i didn't think there was a chance in hell they were winning 10 games last year no way so i think he can coach and listen he's a brooklyn guy so that you know he's got your new england you know uh lineage if you will will, but he's got that Brooklyn in him. I just made a character flaw mistake because he's a Mets fan. I found that out. I was a

little disappointed to hear that, to be honest. He's a Mets fan. Yeah. He's a Mets fan. He's a Mets fan. Wow. Well, the Mets are a little in the dolphin situation too, right? Where the glory days were basically the mid eighties and then a couple of blips since, but even they made like the 2000 world series and what was it, 2015 they made the World Series? Well, and that is in many ways my worst nightmare, doing this pod and walking around town if the Mets ever beat the Yankees. I'll do that.

I promise you this. I will do the podcast that Monday and then I'm going on hiatus for like two weeks. That would, I'm telling you right now, you're going to laugh. The Mets beating the Yankees in the World Series would be close to the equivalent of what happened in 2004. And I say that because I'd have to deal with the Mets fans all the time. Like in 2004,

geez, I was a junior in high school and I really didn't hear about it a ton until I went to college and my entire floor in Syracuse were Red Sox fans reading the sports guy. And I'm like, well, who's the sports guy character? And then, you know, the rest, as they say in the business is history, but like the Mets fan rubbed it in, but then you could kind of throw back into their face. You're a Mets fan, whatever. If I got to deal with the Mets winning a World Series against the Yankees, that's it. Hiatus for a week. I promise. Hiatus.

That's why that 2000 Subway Series was kind of underrated. It didn't play nationally. I don't think there's a lot of memories about it beyond like tri-state area. But I was fascinated by that dynamics of that where the Mets fans, the Yankees had already won three. Seemed like they're headed for four. You have this scrappy Mets team and the Mets fans, the Yankees had already won three, seem like they're headed for four. You have this scrappy Mets team and the Mets fans are secretly thinking, wow, we could

upend this. We're not going to, but we could. All those championships, 96, 98, 99 mean absolutely nothing if the Yankees lose to the Mets in the 2000 subway series and I know it was only a five-game series bill yeah every single game in that series was competitive including game one where the Mets had a lead you had the Timo Perez brain fart on the bases and then O'Neal who is my favorite Yankee all-time by the way because he's got like that sort of intense, in-your-face, grinder mentality. What Paul O'Neill had like that 15-pitch at bat against Benitez. Worked the walk. They tied the game. They won game one in extra innings.

And with those Yankee teams, man, they were indestructible. You knew they were going to find a way. I hated Paul O'Neill's guts. Sometimes you and I get along. So you can subscribe to the New York, New York podcast with John Yastrzemski. It is available now. Get it. Find it on Spotify.

Find it on Apple, whatever. Launching Sunday night. I won't say who the surprise guest is. But no, we won't say it. Yeah, we won't say it. We'll keep it a surprise, right? We won't say. And then Francesco,

Francesco will probably, whenever he decides to come on, we won't keep that a surprise. We'll't say. And then Francesa, Francesa will probably, whenever he decides to come on, we won't keep that a surprise. We'll tell people. Are you going to join me when Francesa comes on? You might have to do that. Listen, anytime you want to do me, you, and Mike for three hours with two and a half hours of us

listening to him, and then we get 15 minutes. I was going to say, listen, I think the biggest challenge in getting Mike on is trying to figure out if he has an idea of how to use Zoom. I don't know. We might have to give Mike the tutorial on Zoom. Just saying. I'm not using Zoom.

I don't understand it. What is this Zoom thing? Zoom is just for a bunch of idiots? How about a hard line? How about I'll just call in a hard line? We'll do that. No, I bet he's using Zoom. He must be using Zoom.

You think so? I'm skeptical on that. These are the things we need to find out. Yeah. Who knows? Mike Francesco might show up on this pod. No, I bet he's using Zoom. He must be using Zoom. You think so? I'm skeptical on that. These are the things we need to find out. Yeah, who knows? Mike Francesco might show up on this pod. Welcome to The Ringer. It's great to have you.

And thanks for coming on today. Bill, I'm so fired up to get started. Thanks for giving me this opportunity. And listen, New York fans, you know where to find me now, three days a week. And more than that, because when shit breaks,

we're going to be on. That's a guarantee. Excellent. Thank you. You got it. I can't believe this has never happened before. Kenan Thompson is here. I've had a podcast for 13 years.

Somehow this is your first appearance. You are the most normal child actor of all time, I think. I'm going to start there. I think you're number one. Thank you very much. Very normal guy. Very normal here. Who's your competition for that title? Justin Timberlake seems relatively normal.

Yeah. Who else? Normal. He's chill. I mean, there's a lot of them. Jason Weaver, he started super young. He's still very grounded and a good buddy of mine, Jaleel too. Jaleel White is another one. Great head on his shoulders. Girl, dad, same. I mean, I don't know.

There's a lot of them. I watched this documentary on Hulu that Soleil Moonfried did, who used to play Punky Brewster way back when. And it's called Kid 90. And it was about all these 90s things, these kids in la that all hung out together and then it goes wrong for a lot of them and it just seems like you know a lot of the time it goes wrong for whatever reason why didn't it go wrong for you what were the what were the secrets uh i mean you know who's to say that it won't tomorrow you know like nothing is promised is promised, but so far, like, I don't know. I've just been very blessed. You know, I get along with people and I haven't really gotten overly out of control with

any kind of addictions basically, you know? So. What made you want to get into it? I was, I've been, I've just been in it all my life, basically like doing theater and stuff like that. And like, I grew up, you know, being an actor and stuff in atlanta and i was just kind of always finding the comic relief roles or they were always given to me you know because i had a you know sense of humor i guess and i like to have a good time and then it started to become a lucrative thing once i did my first commercial i was like you know 11 years old and got a hundred dollar check you know i'm saying so i was like well

you know maybe i should lean further into whatever this is. And Atlanta was a good platform for that. Cause we had TBS and stuff like that. And, you know, uh, they had a show called real news for kids. And that was the first show I was on. And then I auditioned for like mighty ducks from there and stuff like that. So, yeah, it's funny. So I'm, I'm like between generations, right? The generation that you hit with initially, my kids are, my kids were born in 05 and 07. So it's all those Disney programs, all that stuff. My generation was like Brady Bunch, Partridge Family, all that stuff. Then there was this generation between where that mid to late nineties, early two thousands were like their show. So like Keenan and Kel was, you know, this iconic show.

And I didn't even know what was going on. You know, I'm like an adult living in Boston. In your demo. Yeah. That's all good though. I mean, you know, it's good for, I guess, them to look at it back at it now. Cause like Paramount Plus and like all the episodes

are back up. So a lot of kids are like watching it and like loving it all over again, which is nice, especially good burger. Like good burger was like flaming up Netflix for the last like two, three, four months or something like that.

So, you know, it's, it's nice to see like things hold up through time because a lot of the time it doesn't, you know, a lot of the time, you know,

things get very across the line very quickly, especially in comedy, you know, like eighties and nineties comedies, they were pushing a lot of envelopes. Yeah. There's, there's this app called Pluto that runs all these old TV shows, especially from the seventies and eighties. They have a family ties channel. Family ties. When I was a kid, that was one of the iconic shows. It was like cheers, family ties, Cosby, you know, and you watch that show now and it's like every episode had to have

some sort of lesson, right? It was like the drunk uncle. Oh, we got to confront him. Elisa's boss is hitting on her at work. Oh, she's got to confront him. And each thing, it just was like captured in the air, but it doesn't hold up at all. Now you'd watch and be like,

what the hell was going on back then? It was a lot of let's teach society's lessons through sitcom for some reason. Senator Touchy has come to town and we need to that's not acceptable. Every episode

it was always like the boss, the father-in-law. There was one that was on where the father-in-law's politics didn't agree with the dad's politics so they had to like have that whole episode but um that's true i mean but that also makes for good you know communal conversation i guess you know it kind of brings everyone which is a you know we were talking about how great the hour is with our show and the young rock show like yeah everybody together and gets them in a room together and makes them kind of have those conversations, which, you know, could be a good thing because when you go out in public,

a lot of people tend to be just more reserved in their own thoughts or whatever, and not necessarily engaging and learning anything from somebody else. So, you know, I'm kind of all for it. It was just very kind of heavy handed in the eighties and nineties for sure. Yeah. It's funny that this generation of, I guess you'd call it sitcoms there. I always think of sitcoms. I just think of like eighties, like just over the top ever since now it's like almost like TV comedies and

you have yours and young rock in the same hour, which has already pulled in my son. Although he doesn't watch it when it's on. He waits. It's like, Oh, that shows on a't watch it when it's on. He waits. It's like, oh, that show's on a channel? I thought it was only on Hulu. Like that generation just sees it. They have the choice.

That's the choice generation. Yeah, it's the on-demand. But it's interesting, your show as the evolution of like, what we've had 60 years, 70 years of sitcoms at this point. And all this stuff's subtle, right? The stuff you're dealing with in the pilot, there's cancel culture, but it's not overt. It's not like, bah, bah, he might get canceled.

It's all a little bit under the radar. The stuff you, you know, the guy's a widower, but it's not like completely over the top where they would just do this whole episode about, this guy lost his wife and yeah now he's sad so you're just weaving in all these themes in 21 minutes basically it's tough too i mean they're lessons learned because you know this is a couple years down the road with this idea we did an original pilot that chris rock directed and yeah it was much more closer

to the actual widowship so it was very heavy somber, which didn't necessarily serve as a comedy. You know, it serviced like a dramedy, but that's not a sitcom, you know. So we wanted to find that balance even further. And I was also like outside of my business profession that people are used to seeing me. They're used to seeing me in kind of an entertainment type energy, which we landed on the morning show. Before, I was like a real estate agent or whatever. As fascinating and funny as real estate is, we ended up moving away from that and putting it into a morning show. It kind of just all came together and fits, even cast-wise.

Fortune Feimster was like a last minute addition to the cast. And she rounded out the cast in such a way that it was just like, wow. When you flip that last Rubik's, you know, pattern and it's all just all the colors on each side and it's perfect. Like that's what that felt like, basically. So, yeah, it was bugged out. It's been a-received whenever people watch it, whether it's at 8.30 on NBC Preferred or on Hulu or Peacock or whatever.

Yeah, it's like putting together a basketball team, right, where you still need the crunch time five and you have the five key parts, and if you miss on one of the parts, you can feel it in the show. But usually then they'll just audible and get rid of the person after a year. But it seems like you hit all the things.

You also have two of my favorite people in it. Chris Redd, who I bought stock in early. Yeah, as you should. I bought all of his rookie basketball cards. Yeah, super early. Tesla, good for you. And then my guy, Don Johnson, who will not come on this podcast,

I think because he knows it would probably be four hours. Miami vice was like a top five hall of fame show for me, Sonny Crockett, the whole thing. And now he's your, he's your father-in-law on this and he's still Don Johnson, but I do feel like you should make them wear the white linen suits at least once, maybe for like a Halloween thing. We gotta, we gotta tap into it at least once. You know what I mean? i mean especially for like a you know we were talking about it earlier on another like interview like a halloween episode or something like that's just ripe you know to just go right there and put them

right back in it just a colorful start with a colorful t-shirt you know and then all of a sudden like you know just do it in pieces bring them some like white linen pants it's like oh snap like maybe try this like white linen blazer as well. Aqua sleeveless t-shirt. You know what I mean? He's one of those guys. Roll those sleeves up. Yeah.

And what's this like old Ferrari doing here? I don't know, but you might as well drive it. You know? He's one of those guys. Like I did TV with magic for a year and you know, we'd be sitting in this room. There'd be five NBA games going.

It's boring. You're there for like eight hours and by like the third hour, I'd just be like, Magic, what was the closest you ever came to an NBA fight? You just want like stories.

Like, what's the craziest moment you've ever had at a nightclub? And they're just like this jukebox of stories. I would imagine Don Johnson's like that, right? He's been in Hollywood for 50 years. Forget about it. There's so many good stories, you know, and it's so nice to hear somebody survive all that,

you know, but at the same time, you know, he has stories where, you know, he was like, you know, the mellow fellow in the room too. He was just in a time where everybody was in the same area and doing the same things, you know what I'm saying? So he has a story where he's rehearsing for a play or something, and Richard Pryor and somebody else just wanders across the street and starts hanging out in his dressing room. He's just doing local theater. He's not Don Johnson at this point. I mean, he's himself, but he's not famous yet.

He's just in the mix of the time. You know what I mean? It's just such a great era that he came up through. So yeah, I could listen to him all day. When that show took off, that was 84. That was kind of the height of when you could become a massively famous person overnight, thanks to a TV show.

It can't really happen the same way anymore because not as many people watch TV like that. But that was the year of Cosby. 34 million viewers or something crazy like that. Oh, yeah. Every week, steady. 22 episodes for however many years or whatever. Like crazy.

And Saturday Night Live was like that too in the 80s too. Like with, you know, when Eddie took off. He took off. There was like 12, 13 million people watching. Took off. 40 years worth of like a legacy from his jumping off point, basically. Like his heat and, you know,

established movie stardom, like never, you know, was chipped away at. He's always been like Eddie Murphy since coming to America, I'd say. He's like my all-time guy. I never thought he was going to come back to Saturday Night Live. And then he came back.

Everybody thought the same thing. And then he came back. So what was it like? Tell me. It was epic. He killed. It was Christmas, number one. It was like our Christmas show.

So New York is just magical at that time. And, you know, he was like, Sandler, you know, and Sandler had just did it in April. So we felt good about that. And then they announced over the summer,

like Eddie's doing a Christmas show. So I'm like, holy shit, like all summer or the rest of the summer, I'm thinking like Eddie Murphy's coming, Eddie Murphy's coming.

Every episode from the start of that season, like Eddie Murphy's coming. And then it was that week and then he was fucking there. You know what I mean? Now we got to pitch ideas to Eddie Murphy's coming. Eddie Murphy's coming. Every episode from the start of that season, like, Eddie Murphy's coming. And then it was that week. And then he was fucking there. You know what I mean? Now we got to pitch ideas to Eddie Murphy. You know what I mean?

It was just like, yo, this is wild. Trying to make him laugh with some weird idea, you know what I mean, that's probably miles down the comedy thinking that he's probably used to. Because we've been in rooms of comedians for years and years and years. You know what I mean? And he's just been, you know, around his people basically. So the inside-edness of the thinking, you know what I mean? It was just probably like really hard to like communicate probably for a lot of people. So it was a lot of pressure, you know what I'm saying? You can't just do any old kind of reference and think he's just going to get it right away. It's like, you know that song, such and such?

He'd be like, no, I don't know that. And like, your pitch is dead, basically, in two seconds before you even get started. You know what I mean? So you have to think of things that might make Eddie Murphy laugh. It was wild. And then we got to spend six days with him. And he was always cool. He was just quiet and reserved and more quiet than you would assume.

But when the show came alive he came alive and as the show went on he got wilder and wilder and looser and looser so by the time he was like in that elf sketch with just a white t-shirt he was as free as he could be and it was incredible to watch i never thought it was actually going to happen i was like you as the date got closer it's like ah now he'll cancel then it was actually going to happen. I was like you. As the date got closer, it was like, ah, no, he'll cancel. Then it was like three weeks away. And then the week before, they showed the card. And it was like, oh, wait, he's really going to do this?

Yeah, I remember hearing that that might be a possibility. I'm like, really? After all this time? Why would you even agree to do some shit just to back out? That's way worse, in my opinion. But he did it. He showed up, and he sat in it and was really tripping him out he hadn't been there in 30 plus years you know what i mean 30 plus years that's that's like

beyond going back it's like going back to your elementary school and your element school is popping yeah i i think he's i mean he he was the only guy I remember being on the show who it was just clear he was going to go on to be like one of the biggest movie stars, like pretty, pretty quickly. But then when you talk about the history of the show, which is now 40, 46 years,

I guess people usually have him verse Will Ferrell in the finals. Seems like when we do like the michael versus lebron type arguments about snl it seems like those are the two everyone settles on yeah and you know eddie was like a movie star you know what i mean like outside of comedy like will ferrell is a comedy movie star you know and he's the you know probably one of the greatest or if not the greatest cast member to do it um but yeah like eddie like in his time 48 hours beverly hills cop you know they had comedic tones but it was like those are action type ish movies he just have have the comedy ability at the highest level as well on top of that so yeah, yeah, I don't know. They're both beasts, and I absolutely adore them both.

You know, like, it's interesting that people want to compare greatness like that. It's like comparing a diamond to a diamond, you know? Like, they're both pretty sparkly. That's a sports thing. Yeah, yeah. That's like half of sports arguments now is just, you know. I'm trying to compare, like, LeBron to Kobe or Jordan. Even comparing Kobe and Jordan.

It's definitely an interesting thing as opposed to letting them all have their place or whatever. The only place we don't really do it is with actors. Nobody's like... I don't know. Somebody has this awesome performance in a movie and then our default is immediately, oh, let's go with him versus Pacino in the

70s. Who do you have? De Niro and Pacino is kind of the closest one that I've ever seen. Oh, yeah. I had a column for ESPN.com way back and I used to have a mailbag and I did this whole breakdown of De Niro versus Pacino and

different categories and the whole thing. And it's really the only argument you could really have with actors. Cause they were kind of on each other's corner. You know, I think with actors, it's, it's hard to be in that you're,

you're the longest running SNL cast member ever, which is interesting because you were born after the show premiered. Yeah. Which, uh, I think you were the first, weren't you the first guy who was on the show who was born after premiered? I think, I think you were the first, weren't you the first guy who was on the show who was born after it premiered?

I think you were the first one, right? Yeah. Yeah, I have a special connection to that place. You know what I'm saying? So I don't know. I'm just not in a hurry to run away from it. I don't feel like I need to. I feel like I can always do both or do more

or get to 20 and then figure it out. But, you know, at the moment, it's just like, it's a very comfortable place for me. Yeah, it's been, the show's been in my life since I was six. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I've been there. My parents finally started letting me watch it in the late 70s because they used to have the greatest hits, half hours in primetime.

And that's Blue She Sucked Me In and Then I Was In, probably for fifth season on. And it's been interesting how the show kind of reflects whatever's going on with society. And then you saw the last four years with the Trump thing where it's like the show had to address it, but it almost kind of overpowered the show. I feel like since the inauguration, it feels like the show is back to, yeah.

It's the biggest distraction ever. And for me, it was Eddie. I remember watching my dad watching Hot Tub as a kid and being like, what is that? I recognize him from 48 hours or something, his first thing before I even knew he was on SNl or whatever you know it's like i knew him from like my dad having the tape or something at the crib you know what i mean blah blah so i was like well what is this show and then he was like go on the bed this ain't for you this ain't for children blah blah so it wasn't until like middle school in kind of

like the farley david spade years you know, Phil Hartman years that I really grew to appreciate the show. And then I went back and like watched the 80 and Piscopo years and then the original seven years, you know, and then like on throughout my middle school, like I almost never missed a show, you know, up through the time that I got on there. So just a big, like you said, big part of the life, you know, big part of the life you know big part of the life do you feel like the show feels a little more free now that you guys can go back to doing sketch comedy without also having hey night and day because there's still plenty of weird ass politicians to make fun of you know what i mean like kate's doing like four different dudes every

episode you know like there's just some weird fucking people out there. But, you know, not to have it in the highest seat is very helpful for us to just, like, relax and be silly and get back to, like, thinking about silly but also covering, you know, whatever politics is usual type stuff. When did, Hater always, Hater's been on here a few times and he always said, the kind of, the way you know you've made it on the show is when they put you as the first face people see when the show starts. Yeah.

Where it's like, that's a different level of, of nut crunching pressure and you don't want to just throw somebody into that. When did they trust you with opening a show? When they had a format that kind of matched the openings of the show. You know what I mean? So once I think I started doing Sharpton, I started opening the show a lot because he had a show.

And they usually open the cold opens with some newsy type of thing. Like when Daryl was doing it all the time, it was, you know, him doing a Chris Matthews. Yeah. Chris Matthews. Yeah. Hardball. Yeah. So like when Sharpton had his show, I could open the show. Like, you know what I mean? It was like familiar type covering the news, but still very, very funny. And I'm doing like a funny, like impression of a character. Like I thought my Sharpton was pretty strong, and I believed in it. And yeah, that's when I was saying live from New York a few times.

You're basically staring into the barrel of a gun when they're telling everybody to quiet down, and you're just staring at the camera waiting. Yeah. That's got to be tense. It's super tense. I'm reading my first two cards just to make sure I get in a rhythm so I don't stumble right out of the gate.

You know what I'm saying? If I stumble as I'm going along, whatever. But if I stumble right out of the gate, it's really hard to feel good about it later, I guess, let alone getting them back on track. I feel like the sketches are strong enough by that point to even be the code open that there's plenty of jokes in it to like get the audience back. But for me watching it back, just knowing that I'm just like tripping right out of the gate, like it's, it sucks. So, you know,

you try to do it like as perfect as you can, which is a lot to ask. You know what I mean? Like you're basically asking yourself for perfection. So it's a very fine line between driving yourself crazy and just being passionate, I guess. My biggest takeaway from seeing it live was how tense the minute leading up to the beginning of the show was because you forget on TV that it's a live performance. So when they're telling everyone in a quiet time, they're like, oh, shit, this is happening. And then you see the actors and they're just kind of waiting and you're like, Oh my God. Yeah. This is their lives. This is their careers. This is their family and friends hearing about it. You know,

like everybody's got to like deal with these moments after we put this material out. So, you know, you try to do a good show basically. When did you get comfortable with, this is another like level to pass on snl this sketch isn't totally working and somebody just fucked up but this is kind of fun let's roll with this and it's actually

kind of fun this isn't working uh different times like it was later on that i've really like got hands-on with like the writing and rewriting of things. Once I wrote my first sketch, for real, for real, scared straight, I think it was... That was my fifth season. Yeah. That's when I felt better about trusting my instincts during rehearsal and being like, well, this is not working, that's not working.

I think we need a better joke here, a better joke there. And not just doing other people's work because up until that point i'd done like deep house dish and stuff like that but james anderson always wrote those things and i trusted him with the writing and rewriting and like finding what's not working and fixing it type of thing because that's what i was used to like coming from nickelodeon you know what i mean i never had the writing room responsibility over there. Like, SNL was, like, my college for that, basically. So once I, like, wrote my first sketch, like, with Colin, my roommate, the great Colin Jost. He was my office mate at that time.

It was, like, his first year, you know, fresh out of Harvard. And I asked him, like, had he ever seen Scared Straight? And he's like, no, what is that? I was like, you've never seen like the documentary from the 70s? Showed it to him like he's dying laughing. And I'm like, yeah, so I think it'd be funny to like yell and scream at a bunch of kids. And then he added the element where I'm telling parables through 80s movies thing. And that's what made it a sketch. You know what I mean? And that's what made it a good sketch.

So, you know, learning that lesson and how to like take one little thing that I think is funny and then figuring out what you need to wrap around it to actually make it a whole like concept that'll fit the show or whatever. That was very pivotal. How long were you office mates with him? Years.

Like six, maybe seven, five, six, seven years, something like that. It was a while. It's like having a roommate. Yeah, yeah, it was. Like we had two desks, like facing opposite directions. I'm looking out one window and he's looking out like another window or whatever. And, you know, he was like head writer really quickly too so he

always had like a lot of responsibility but he'd be gone like he'd go meet with seth or whoever else and they'd be like writing all night so i kind of had the office to myself and i'd be in there partying and he'd come back like all exhausted and i'm just like in there watching youtube do you do you have to um adjust after the season with just the sleep schedule and how you kind of have to peak at this weird time of the day that human beings aren't meant to peak? Yeah, a little bit. I definitely have to adjust when I'm going back into the SNL cycle.

I adjust immediately by having kids. You know what I mean? They get me up early, and I learn to go down early when I'm off, basically. So when it's time for SNL, I start like, all right, stretching out my days. I get up at weird hours and just like try to fit those naps in, you know what I mean? Just to make sure I'm not fully exhausted and stuff like that. And I can still do things late at night and perform at a high level or whatever and have fun still, you know what I mean?

Like it's still fun to like be up at one in the morning off the high of doing the show or going to the after parties or whatever. So, you know, just trying to not skip past things just because I have responsibilities and stuff. Try to be able to balance them too. That's the key. That's the secret. PDs and napping seem to be the two best ways to have longevity. And you read out like with people like LeBron with napping seem to be the two best ways to have longevity. And you read out like people like LeBron with napping. I think Steve Nash was the first one who kind of popularized it with the NBA,

like the importance of a nap and the importance of falling asleep at like 2.30 so you could wake up and then you eat three hours for the game and basically treat your body like this, you know, high powered engine. And then once he started doing that and then everybody started doing it, I think this is why everybody's going to play into their forties though. Yeah, man. I mean, for me, it was the first time I traveled to Barcelona and the year I think was 1992. And I noticed that the entire city was shut down between the hours of five and seven.

Very interesting. You could get nothing, between the hours of five and seven. It was very interesting. You could get nothing, nothing at all between five and seven. But yeah, I mean, naps are key, man. I didn't have to learn that. I just would take them and feel better, basically. I like napping. I can't nap. See, not everyone can nap.

That's a very true thing, by the way, because my wife can't nap. God saved her life for nothing. And I'm like, man, I don't understand what you guys do. What do you do? I'm so jealous of it. If it was like a thing you could buy on Amazon and it would be like $15,000 napping, you can buy it for a year. I'd be like, sign me up. So like when you're exhausted and you have nothing to do, you still can't nap.

I have to be like, like we got a puppy recently and the puppy was waking us up in the middle of the night. And then you couldn't fight. So it was like one of those things where I only slept three hours. Your body just shuts down. Yeah. But I can't do the intentional naps. I'm jealous of the intentional nappers. Yeah, man.

That's a real thing. Like taking a little micro seven, 10, 19 minute. Good one. Yeah. You know, you, you'd be amazed how it recharges you once you shake that. Oh yeah. How many kids do you have now? Two, two little girls. What are the ages? They're six and two about to be seven and three this summer, little summer girls. What are the ages? They're six and two, about to be seven and three this summer. Little summer girls. Oh, six was my daughter's 15 now. It gets a lot more complicated. I'm just going to warn you. Yeah, different kinds of problems

from what I'm hearing. Different kinds of problems. Six was the best. If you could just bottle them up and keep them at six for like 11 years, I would have taken it. If you could cryogenically freeze them at that age, the best. It rapidly starts changing after that from what I hear.

So I've noticed like she's a person. She's a full person. You know what I mean? And like she's living her life. And my little one, she's like dragging her along much faster than I want her to do too. You know what I'm saying?

Like she's about to be three and she's almost out of diapers. Like once she's out of diapers, it's a wrap. Right. They're just off and running. So you were doing, you were doing two things at the same time here, which seemed, um, not hectic is probably an understatement because you were in New York and L.A. You're filming the TV show, but then you're also doing Saturday Night Live at the same time. How many months was that, like four? I mean, it only overlapped for five weeks like that, like that. You know, in the beginning, we were supposed to overlap in December or something, but it didn't necessarily work out like that. I did like one Zoom show and then like one Christmas show.

So I only like missed like one show basically in December. And then after the new year, we started in LA two weeks before SNL came back. Cause SNL didn't come back until like the end of January. Yeah. But when they did come back, they came back to like five-week run, basically. So for five weekends, I was running back and forth after that.

So it was really like seven weeks in a row that I didn't have a break. But that's over now because we wrapped the show last week and SNL is just now coming back this week. So it's just one at a time at this moment. But I was off for one week last week and before that it was like a seven week stretch basically so did lauren give you the cautionary story about when belushi was going back and forth in the late 70s and eventually went off the rails filming a movie and doing a saturday saturday night live at the same

time oh no but i'm sure it was a much different, you know, chemically induced issue. You know, lucky for me, I don't have that, that burden. That was, I think, a different era

for Lorne to run that show. There were some extra, extra factors in the late 70s, early 80s. The stories that they tell when they used to, like, smoke cigarettes in the control booth, you know what I mean, in the late 70s, early 80s. The stories that they tell when they used to smoke cigarettes in the control booth, you know what I mean? In the control booth would be like just a cloud.

I'm like, that's wild. What a crazy time. What did they think was going to happen from that? You know what I mean? People just breathing in toxins all day. It was just a crazy different time. You kept a pretty low profile over the years. Why? I'm just mellow like that. I mean, I enjoyed my privacy up until basically it seemed like

I was avoiding people if I didn't share things with them. As many interviews that I do, so what do you do? Are you married or do you have kids? I'm like, yeah, I might as well just like talk about them, you know, as opposed to like trying to hide them from people. But yeah, I'm just, you know, just chill. Basically, I've been through my struggles in life, but they weren't necessarily like overly publicized. So I've been able to like, just keep it low key and all about the work, which is, you know, basically what I'm most focused on. Yeah. Cause you became, when you basically said, I'm not playing women anymore on the show, let's change the cast a little bit. Yeah. That was the first time I remember you in the middle of everything. But when you said it, it was like, yeah, wait a second. What's going on with the show? Why, why is this the way they're doing it now? The cast is the most diverse it's ever been.

The weird thing to me about it, look, everything, things take, things take a long time sometimes. And I think the important thing is to get to the right place. But the part I never understood is the show is supposed to reflect, you know, pop culture and the culture at large, which is the reason it became a phenomenon in the 70s. And so much of what's popular in pop culture is diverse. It just seemed weird that the show wasn't reflecting that correctly. Now it feels like it's reflecting it correctly, right?

Yeah. I mean, you know, it's all progress, you know, and they're making their strides. They're also doing, you know, high's all progress, you know, and they're making their strides. They're also doing, you know, high level comedy, you know, so there's certain people that are ready to do it, that the show is, you know, ready to put on, I guess, or available for the show to put on. You know, a lot of people that are at that level are probably already working or something, which was like part of that big controversy throughout

that me playing women thing and bringing in more Black women and the misquote and all of that. That's really what it comes down to is just the number system, where they choose their talent from that usually fits the structure of the show is these improv houses and the numbers and percentages of representations of different cultures reflect what is available, basically, like, you know, Black people, Black women, you know, anybody else of color, you know, different genders, you know, sexes or whatever. Like, the wordage gets very tricky, so you don't want to, like, put your foot in it.

But it's just the representation numbers are different in those places. There's not a lot of people that I knew even growing up that were doing improv like that. You know what I'm saying? And I grew up in Atlanta, which is like majority black. So you're telling me like the majority of black people don't really know about going to improv school basically, or was it just the people that I was around? You know what I mean? You don't really know, but I was speaking from my experience and what i've seen you know and i at that point i've

been around i've seen like i've been to second city i've been in the groundlings i've been to ucb and you know it is what it is there's a few over here and a whole lot over there basically um were you surprised for for and delighted by the atlanta revival over the last five years just in general as atlanta has the center of the pop culture universe out of nowhere atlanta has taken off it's highly dangerous at the moment and i hope they get it together but yeah i mean there's a lot of you know rich energy down there with different cultures like you know smashed together like it's like the southeastern melting pot probably more than any city that's down there as far as like the ability

to do whatever you know what i mean it reminds me of vegas like vegas seems like one of those towns anybody can move to and just like become a whole new person and take over the world type you know what i mean and atlanta is like kind of a version of that where a lot of people feel like if they can get their foot in the right door, no matter who they are, where they're coming from, you know, they can make it happen. Whether or not that happens for real, I don't know. But the spirit of hope is very much alive there. So you can feel it.

It's funny how it happens in waves, right? But usually it was only with music the last five years it was basically everything because you movies tv and music all happen at the same time at a whole other level where it just was suddenly the most interesting city in america it's like all this opportunity has been sitting here you know what i mean it's only in an army base that was just shut down basically that tyler pearce studios became you know what I mean? It's only an army base that was just shut down, basically, that Tyler Perry Studios became. You know what I mean? It's like just sitting right there in East Point.

Like, I went to high school in East Point. You know what I'm saying? Like, East Point has been there. It's just about people with vision coming and making things happen. Like, now, Big Boy from OutKast has an awesome trailer business. You know what I'm saying? It's like all of these things that manifest through people having visions. What was Barkley first time you saw him after you did the impression of him?

Barkley loved it. Barkley always loved it. Al Sharpton loved it. Steve Harvey not loved it in the beginning, but he loves it now. Was Shaq mad at Jay Pharoah? I can't remember how that played out when he first did the cross, I think He didn't really love that Jay Pharoah impression Even though it's a version of him that's pretty funny So a lot of people do like that

And it made me laugh too But yeah, he was kind of semi-heated But Shaq doesn't really get mad mad He doesn't have nothing to be mad mad about necessarily. Like his life is good. Well, he also has a really good sense of humor. I think ultimately deep down. Yeah.

That guy's like one of the all-time pranksters who's ever been in the NBA. Exactly. So it's funny how the show's relationship with celebrity changed over the last 25 years. Because initially, yeah, they would really skewer some people. Oh, yeah. But then somewhere in the late nineties, I, I remember I really noticed it with Tina Fey and Sarah Palin where

she's making fun of her, making fun of her. And then Sarah Palin actually came on, you know, and then Sandberg was making fun of Mark Wahlberg, but then he came on and then that became the new thing. It would kind of disarm if the impression was too mean. I'm not sure if I like it, though. I kind of liked the show is at arm's length with the celebrities a little bit. Oh, yeah. I mean, to each his own. But, you know, it's always that, you know, celebrity like face payday, basically, you know, like you can get Sarah Payne on the show.

That's viewers. You got to do it. Yeah. You got to do it. If Hillary Clinton wants to come through and stand next to Amy Poehler or, you know, Kate McKinnon and like, you know, be herself, you know, standing next to an impersonation of herself, that's, audiences eat that up, you know? So same with, you know, if Barack were to do it

or The Rock were to do it. What was the saddest you've ever been when somebody left the show? It was a sad departure when like Sandberg and Kristen and it was like Sandberg, Kristen and Bill, I think. All together.

Yeah. It was a big departure. It was like three to five of them all together. Yeah, that was a sad one. Another one was when Fred left, because Fred did a sketch that he brought in these rock star singer people to sing the saddest song at the table read. And it was a very melancholy sketch that he wrote so it had like laughs but it was super highly emotional at the same time it was just like a roller coaster and that was insanely sad because you know fred was like everybody's like you know

big brother that you know you can't really go depending on anything, but, you know, bits, basically, like, don't go to him for advice. Don't go to him, you know, for anything other than how sharp is your comedic mind in this moment, basically, which is a lesson in itself. But he was always about creating and being creative and being on top of your game. Like if you wanted to like, go ask him questions, you're wasting your time basically. So when people like that, that inspire you in such a way, go away, it, man, it hit everybody heavy. And then you see people that are usually like rock silent crying, you know, like Cecily,

like I've never seen like Cecily crying. She was bawling. You know what I'm saying? So that made it like super heavy. I've asked every person from the SNL franchise this question, including Lauren, so I'm asking you. Lauren came on the podcast. I did the first Lauren.

Might have been the only Lauren podcast, but I had to go to his office and actually sit there. Yeah, of course. I think SNL is like a basketball rotation. Like the best version of it is going to be if it's got like nine cast members that they're just in it, they're all playing, they're all getting at least 20 minutes and they're all getting sweaty.

And the more people you have on the cast, then it's like from a usage rate standpoint, it gets a little dicey, right? Like the Lakers, they're not going to try to win the title playing 15 guys. They're going to settle on their eight or nine. But I get, Lauren was explaining like, look, I have a bigger cast because that's how you bring in younger people. They got to get their feet wet. They got to learn from everybody else.

So what do you think the ideal number for the cast is? If you could pick a number. I mean, when I came in, it was like 14 people. It's like 16, 17 now. Is that too many? It's a lot. I mean, there's a lot of nights where there's a lot of people not scoring, and that's really sucky because there's usually some really talented people having just bad situations, bad runs, bad, you know collaboration cycles or whatever it is you know what I'm saying so there'll be a pattern where it seems like

a person is being super duper underserved and then you know a host will come along that will make sense for them and all of a sudden they'll have an incredible night you know so you try to keep them afloat during those times but it's really hard and it's really emotional so like 13 14 probably is a sweet spot because two of them

are probably on the update desk and then you're relying heavily on eight or nine or ten of them you know i mean to do a lot of the show and have some rotate a few or whatever so you know but you know 16 and you know it can't hurt as long as you don't i mean because when you have a 13 or 14 or a 12 and then all of a sudden four people leave the show or three people leave the show and then you're like dwindled down to like five or six that you can really count on and that's a you know heavy burden to put five or six people in ten sketches every single week you know so you guys pad it out a little bit so between 14 and 16 you know i see that being like a solid kind of area i remember it feeling like a big cast when i joined but immediately jimmy fallon left the

show that year you know what i mean and i think probably no yeah i think that was jimmy's departure year and maybe tina too but you know it might have been like Jimmy and Rachel and Horatio all together or something like that. It was just three vets like out the door basically. So you got to watch. Did you ever think about hosting a late night show? Yeah. I mean, I think about hosting any show, you know, just host the kids choice awards. So it's like, all right.

No, I'm saying like doing it like, like Kimel style like yeah like four nights a week yeah jokes you know what i'm saying let's see what's in the news like oh yeah i was a big fan of arsenio growing up like arsenio was like the first person i really like migrated to it was like really like drawn to basically because his style and you know he was like the first black guy basically because his style and, you know, he was like the first black guy out there doing it, you know, or like the only black guy out there doing it.

And, uh, you know, I was friends with Eddie Murphy and I see him in all these like movies and stuff. I was a fan for coming to America and blah, blah, blah.

So I'd never seen like Jay Leno in a movie I had, but it was like a weird movie with him and like Pat Morita or something. That movie's bad. You know, so it was just like, I liked that. I was like, oh yeah, I would want to be Arsenio at some point for sure. It's so funny you said that because that was the kind of model I had in my head. Only because I was in high school when he started replacing Joan. Joan Rivers flamed out and they had all these guest hosts.

And then Arsenio was the one that stuck, but there was such an energy with that show. And at that time, you know, there were, there were a lot of musicians and stuff that were never going on Carson. They were never going on Letterman or any of these things. And all of a sudden he was tapping into something I hadn't seen on late night

before the people that were coming on and then all of a sudden Eddie would come on and Magic Johnson and Michael Jackson and all these people, yeah. But you could, the thing that you could do with a show like that would have been the sketch piece too. Like you could add, I just feel like a blend of different ones. But it seems like, it feels

like Kenan's going to be on for like 10 years so I think maybe the ship has sailed. You can always like do that you i think maybe the ship has sailed you can always like do that you know when when the opportunity comes down the road even like i still feel like i'm a young man still got my original kneecaps so i'm good you know we'll see how that goes if it runs for 10 years i'll still only be like what 50 ish yeah that's like perfect late night time you'll be you'll be uh on eight years from now with Puberty Rock. After Young Rock, they have to graduate it.

They go to Puberty Rock. That's right. Voice cracking. A lot of voice cracking. A lot of like bedroom door lock for an hour at a time. Nobody knows what's going on. But last question. When does What's Up With That come back? It's just retired? It's done? But last question, when does, when does, uh, what's up with that?

Come back. It's just retired. It's done. We brought it back for the zoom episodes, uh, last May. That was, but I mean like in everybody there, cause it seems like I want to get, I gotta do it with bill and I gotta get Sudeikis and Fred. So if I can get all three of them, then it'll be about filtering in, you know, like Bobby Moynihan is Jake, the snake Roberts and, you know, people like that. So I got to,

like, I can't do it without bill, you know, for sure. And then it just doesn't feel great without Fred and Jason either. So, you know, I need those like three components basically. I think that's fair. Yeah. I don't, I, I actually think that would be a betrayal if those three were not on it. Well, the Lindsey Buckingham joke is my favorite joke of the whole thing. It makes me laugh harder than anything else. The funniest thing is,

it's probably the perfect pick because I think he takes himself more seriously than probably any musician, right? So he's just got to be like, what the fuck? Why are they doing this? Why am I in this? That is another joke in itself.

But just the fact that we set it up and then it's so far away by the time we get back to it. And I'm exhausted by that point. Like I'm usually like huffing and puffing and sweating. But I'm also like celebrating the fact that I got through the sketch. So it's like a celebration moment with him as well. It's just God is the best. I've just, I've loved calling that back and being like, oh my God, we are out of time. You're not

mad at me, are you, Lindsey? Come on, man. He's never mad. He's never mad. What have you done, like 15 of those? It was like eight or nine or something like that, yeah. It was a good amount. It was pretty cool.

Maybe six. I don't know. Mighty Ducks, any chance? Does that come back? Does that circle back? There's this big nostalgia boom right now. Yeah, they're doing it right now. They have that whole show on.

Is it Paramount Plus? Something like that. But you're not involved, though. No, they shot it when I couldn't do it. So they did a semi-reunion with a couple of the cast from part two. There was some originals in there.

There was four originals and one of the dudes from part two, basically. But yeah, I wasn't available, unfortunately. That's tough. Hopefully, schedules will coincide and I'll be able to get back on skates. I have two over one. I don't think that's an unpopular opinion either. I think a lot of people like two more than one.

Yeah, two was like a more like movie movie. Like one was a solid like, oh, this is cool. But it's like maybe Bad News Bears-ish or whatever and just like underplayed, you know. But two was like, oh, this is cool, but it's like maybe Bad News Bears-ish or whatever and just underplayed. But two was like, oh, this is a movie. Listen to the score and we will rock you and blah, blah, blah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, that's satisfying. Good luck.

Good luck with everything you're doing, but especially, I think the show's going to be on a while. Tell Don Johnson I said hello. I will. I'm going to send him your way. I got to get him on. I just need an hour of Philip Michael Thomas stories. I said, hello. I will. I'm going to send them your way. We got, I got, I got to get them on. I just need like an hour of Philip Michael Thomas stories. Like I'm just ready. I'm ready for it.

Uh, all right. Best of luck with everything. Thanks for coming. Thank you, man. Shout out to Philip Michael Thomas, by the way.

All right. That's it for the podcast. Uh, don't forget about the rewatchables, which will be coming on Thursday night with Thief, second one of the week. You can also check out Commando if you missed that one. Don't forget about Rosillo's two-part

ABA podcast that he's doing. Don't forget about R2C2 with CeCe and Ryan. They have a very special guest coming on Friday, so stay tuned for that. Enjoy the rest of the week. We will see you on Sunday night, me and Rossello. We'll be ready to roll. See you then. On the wayside